The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast - We Who Wrestle With God： In the Image of God

00:00:00.000 Thank you.

00:00:23.800 Yeah, so I'm very curious about tonight's talk

00:00:26.460 because I have a lot of things buzzing around in my imagination

00:00:29.620 that are related to the topic of identity

00:00:31.920 and I'm very curious to see if I can weave them together.

00:00:39.180 So I guess we're going to find out.

00:00:44.640 It's a lot of fun to try to do something.

00:00:47.860 I do a different lecture every night.

00:00:49.940 I have a different question every night.

00:00:51.680 It's a lot of fun to see if I can make something coherent

00:00:54.880 out of a genuine investigation.

00:00:58.220 You know, it's kind of a high wire act

00:01:00.660 but it's very entertaining.

00:01:02.560 It's fun to do it with an audience too

00:01:04.880 because then I can see simultaneously

00:01:07.720 if I can manage to push my thought forward

00:01:11.600 in a manner that's coherent

00:01:13.120 but also in a manner that's communicable and comprehensible.

00:01:18.240 It's a great privilege to be able to have that opportunity.

00:01:21.300 So identity.

00:01:24.260 You know, we have identity politics, right?

00:01:27.760 And that's a core element of the culture war.

00:01:30.360 So identity has become political.

00:01:32.720 So it isn't necessarily the case

00:01:35.640 that identity would be political.

00:01:37.260 It could be psychological.

00:01:38.400 It could be sacred.

00:01:39.160 It could be patriotic.

00:01:43.640 It could be national.

00:01:44.800 There's lots of manners in which identity could manifest itself

00:01:49.280 and it's a mystery that it's become political.

00:01:51.520 Now it has something to do with what Jonathan made reference to

00:01:54.980 is when the sacred collapses,

00:01:57.540 so that's the death of God,

00:01:58.740 when the highest order of things collapses,

00:02:01.380 it doesn't disappear.

00:02:02.640 It's as if it plummets downward.

00:02:05.240 And what's happened in our society is that

00:02:07.840 the sacred has become political.

00:02:10.900 And that's really bad

00:02:12.080 because there's a space for the sacred

00:02:13.960 and there's a space for the political.

00:02:16.020 That's why you render unto Caesar what is Caesar's

00:02:18.960 and unto God what is God's

00:02:21.080 and you don't want to confuse the two

00:02:22.860 because if you do,

00:02:24.280 then God becomes Caesar

00:02:26.860 and that's not a good thing.

00:02:28.840 And Caesar becomes God

00:02:30.320 and that is a much worse thing.

00:02:32.520 And so, and that's the situation that we're in.

00:02:36.160 And so that means,

00:02:37.380 and this is part of the conundrum that we have.

00:02:41.040 You know, and maybe it's part of what Nietzsche prognosticated too

00:02:44.020 because he believed that

00:02:45.260 the consequence of the death of God

00:02:47.960 would be that human beings would have to create their own values.

00:02:51.060 And I believe that's wrong.

00:02:52.680 I don't believe we can create our own values.

00:02:54.660 But to give Nietzsche his due,

00:02:56.740 which is always an important thing to do

00:02:59.060 because he was a genius,

00:03:00.280 it certainly is the case

00:03:04.540 that we have to rethink,

00:03:06.760 it seems to be that we have to rethink

00:03:09.100 what identity is from first principles.

00:03:11.780 Now, can we do that successfully?

00:03:14.380 We're going to find out

00:03:15.900 because the culture war is a war

00:03:18.440 because of the difficulty of rethinking identity

00:03:21.120 from first principles.

00:03:22.540 What is it?

00:03:24.060 Is it political?

00:03:25.140 Is it ethnic?

00:03:25.840 Is it racial?

00:03:26.760 Is it economic?

00:03:28.200 Is it desire?

00:03:29.100 Jonathan pointed to that.

00:03:31.300 Are you nothing but what it is that you want

00:03:33.660 or what something within you wants?

00:03:37.140 Is it subjective?

00:03:38.980 Like, is your identity only something that you control?

00:03:42.500 All of those questions,

00:03:43.600 that's like 10 questions.

00:03:44.920 Every single one of those questions

00:03:46.360 is extraordinarily difficult

00:03:47.860 and we seem to be stuck with all of them.

00:03:51.520 So, we're going to try tonight

00:03:54.600 to see if we can take identity apart

00:03:59.080 from first principles

00:04:00.180 and see where we get with it.

00:04:03.620 And so let's start with something basic.

00:04:10.480 One of the things that I thought through deeply

00:04:16.800 when I was a university professor

00:04:19.180 was how to evaluate someone's writing.

00:04:24.040 When you're evaluating their writing,

00:04:25.540 you're evaluating their thinking.

00:04:28.980 And the purpose of evaluating their thinking

00:04:32.340 is not so much to grade them,

00:04:34.500 to put them in the appropriate bin,

00:04:36.200 but to provide them with the corrective feedback

00:04:41.520 that would enable them to become better thinkers, right?

00:04:44.340 When you're criticizing someone,

00:04:46.940 if you're doing it in a sophisticated way,

00:04:50.740 you're helping them separate the wheat from the chaff.

00:04:54.560 And one of the things I learned

00:04:56.560 as a grader of essays, let's say,

00:04:59.760 was that one of the most effective things

00:05:03.400 I could do to students

00:05:05.620 wasn't to circle what they did wrong,

00:05:08.800 which was often 95% of the essay.

00:05:13.540 But seriously, like our school system

00:05:16.280 does a very bad job of teaching people to write.

00:05:18.740 I had super bright kids

00:05:20.160 in the fourth year of university

00:05:21.580 who they were terrible at writing.

00:05:25.500 And they could learn quickly

00:05:26.680 because they were smart,

00:05:27.580 but no one had ever taught them.

00:05:28.860 That was an awful thing to see

00:05:30.580 after 16 years of education.

00:05:33.020 One of the things I learned was,

00:05:36.140 you know, I'd be wading through

00:05:37.600 a mess of cliches and second-rate thought

00:05:41.860 and quasi-copying

00:05:44.880 or not precisely Claudine Gay's sin, let's say,

00:05:50.420 but close to it, plagiarism.

00:05:56.200 And then now and then, you know,

00:05:57.800 it would be as if the students'

00:06:02.740 actual genuine intelligence

00:06:06.200 popped up briefly through all the mess

00:06:10.040 and they said something clear

00:06:13.200 and useful.

00:06:15.880 And, you know, people do this in your relationships with them.

00:06:22.560 You know, all the time is they'll offer you

00:06:26.320 a kind of mishmash of what they think you want

00:06:29.140 or maybe even what they think they want

00:06:32.300 or what they should offer.

00:06:35.300 And if you really listen,

00:06:36.900 and now and then you'll hear the person say something

00:06:38.960 that they really mean and that's true.

00:06:40.640 And if you reward that,

00:06:45.040 because you can if you learn to listen,

00:06:47.180 if you reward that,

00:06:48.140 then more of that will happen.

00:06:49.840 Now, that can be daunting

00:06:51.700 because you've got to ask yourself

00:06:53.740 if you really want to know

00:06:54.740 what your wife thinks of you, for example.

00:06:56.800 But in the long run,

00:06:58.740 it's probably a better idea

00:07:00.300 than finding out in divorce court,

00:07:02.240 you know, 25 years later.

00:07:03.640 So, people will hide bits of wheat in the chaff

00:07:09.440 and what you do as a discriminating critic

00:07:12.960 is dispense with the chaff

00:07:16.480 but identify the wheat.

00:07:18.380 This is a really important thing to know

00:07:19.860 when you're mentoring people,

00:07:21.800 when you're grading,

00:07:22.840 but when you're communicating with people in general,

00:07:25.200 what you're really looking for,

00:07:26.940 if you're wise,

00:07:27.900 are things to reward.

00:07:29.680 Now, you dispense with everything that's second rate,

00:07:32.320 not because you want to criticize and get rid of

00:07:35.080 or rise above the person

00:07:37.060 that you're criticizing morally,

00:07:40.120 but because you want to get to the wheat.

00:07:43.040 And it was frequently the case,

00:07:44.680 for example,

00:07:45.240 when my students were maybe writing

00:07:47.440 the first essay of the semester

00:07:50.340 that, you know,

00:07:51.980 literally 95% of what they wrote

00:07:54.680 was just painful.

00:07:57.260 It would have been easier

00:07:57.980 just to rewrite the essay

00:07:59.340 than to grade it, you know.

00:08:00.920 And so, seriously.

00:08:03.340 But, you know,

00:08:04.480 one of the things I noticed

00:08:05.660 is that if I circled a couple of sentences

00:08:09.140 that were genuine thought,

00:08:11.580 the students were so thrilled

00:08:13.360 that someone had noticed

00:08:14.960 when they dared to put their head up

00:08:17.820 above the parapet

00:08:18.860 and say something

00:08:19.680 they believed to be true and genuine,

00:08:21.860 that the next time they wrote an essay

00:08:23.480 it would be more like 30 or 40% that.

00:08:26.220 And then if they got further reward for that,

00:08:30.180 assuming they had the talent and the diligence,

00:08:33.320 then perhaps by the end of the semester

00:08:35.120 it would be like 90% genuine thought,

00:08:38.840 genuine wheat.

00:08:39.800 And then they were thrilled about that too

00:08:41.840 because people are thrilled

00:08:43.460 to have the opportunity to offer their best,

00:08:46.780 especially if it's received

00:08:49.060 in the right manner.

00:08:52.900 People will often obfuscate

00:08:55.660 and produce what's second rate

00:08:58.340 because they're terrified

00:08:59.540 in their heart of hearts

00:09:00.540 that if they did reveal themselves genuinely,

00:09:04.280 which is also a way of making yourself vulnerable

00:09:08.160 because it lets people see who you really are,

00:09:10.400 if they did reveal themselves genuinely,

00:09:12.760 that that would be rejected.

00:09:14.120 And so part of the reason

00:09:15.260 that my students delivered such dross to begin with

00:09:19.340 was because they had a history

00:09:21.660 of having what they offered

00:09:24.360 that was good, ignored, or condemned.

00:09:27.460 And so often they'd hide under the cliches,

00:09:30.820 they'd hide under giving the professor

00:09:32.580 what he wanted to hear

00:09:33.660 so they would get a good grade

00:09:35.040 because they had sickened of the risk

00:09:39.040 of doing something genuine

00:09:41.080 and having it be rejected.

00:09:42.340 And that's something else to know

00:09:43.680 in your relationships, man.

00:09:45.620 You've got to be very careful

00:09:47.220 not to punish the people around you

00:09:49.200 that you love for doing something good

00:09:51.740 because you can eradicate what's good

00:09:56.020 with punishment quite rapidly.

00:09:58.580 And so it's a deep thing to understand

00:10:02.880 that you need to be watching

00:10:04.380 the people around you all the time

00:10:06.340 to see when they hit the target

00:10:09.660 and to point that out.

00:10:10.960 And people love that.

00:10:11.900 If you do that to people around you,

00:10:13.740 they'll be so thrilled with you

00:10:14.960 you can hardly stand it, right?

00:10:16.840 Because people, all people

00:10:20.120 but those who are utterly nihilistic

00:10:22.540 and faithless

00:10:23.420 will risk offering something genuine

00:10:27.960 from time to time

00:10:29.880 in the desperate hope

00:10:31.560 that it is in fact noticed and appreciated.

00:10:34.900 And if you can transform yourself

00:10:37.200 into the sort of person

00:10:38.260 who notices that and rewards it

00:10:41.180 then people will bring their best to you

00:10:44.220 and that's a great deal.

00:10:45.480 Now, you know, it's demanding in a sense

00:10:49.520 and frightening

00:10:50.120 because if you start to encourage the best

00:10:54.560 in other people

00:10:55.340 and you set that as a standard

00:10:57.120 you more or less have to apply

00:10:59.400 the same criteria to yourself

00:11:01.920 and that can be daunting

00:11:03.520 and so, you know,

00:11:04.800 we tend to engage in a pathological dance

00:11:07.240 with other people

00:11:08.080 and they offer what's second rate

00:11:10.680 to us

00:11:12.740 and we accept it

00:11:14.220 and offer what's second rate to them

00:11:15.860 and we do that

00:11:16.860 because we can shirk responsibility

00:11:18.820 and because it lets everybody off the hook

00:11:22.340 but, you know,

00:11:23.560 there was a famous Soviet joke

00:11:25.240 Typical Russian humor

00:11:27.540 They pretend to pay us

00:11:31.200 and we pretend to work

00:11:32.500 Right?

00:11:34.200 Right?

00:11:34.780 That's a brutal joke

00:11:36.060 That's a brutal joke

00:11:37.520 That's the sort of joke

00:11:38.560 that destroys everything

00:11:40.800 Right?

00:11:41.800 And did, in fact

00:11:43.340 because the Soviets

00:11:44.820 were well on the way

00:11:45.900 to destroying everything

00:11:46.860 when they finally destroyed enough

00:11:49.180 so that they fell apart

00:11:50.460 and thank God that happened

00:11:52.180 without, well,

00:11:53.780 without the Third World War

00:11:55.500 which we seem to be striving mightily

00:11:57.740 to bring back

00:11:58.520 right at the moment

00:11:59.360 by the way

00:12:00.000 Okay, so what are you doing

00:12:02.400 when I was thinking through

00:12:04.260 what I was doing

00:12:05.360 when I was grading an essay

00:12:06.860 I was

00:12:07.420 I was

00:12:09.000 I asked myself

00:12:10.580 you know,

00:12:11.000 what are you doing

00:12:12.040 when you're writing?

00:12:12.880 What is a student doing

00:12:14.100 when he or she is writing?

00:12:16.820 What are you doing

00:12:17.500 when you're thinking?

00:12:19.940 And

00:12:20.140 it's so interesting

00:12:22.860 because if you think that

00:12:23.900 through deeply

00:12:24.600 there's never anything

00:12:27.520 that you do

00:12:28.640 even at the micro level

00:12:33.160 there's never any word

00:12:34.880 that you utter

00:12:35.640 there's never any letter

00:12:38.040 that you write

00:12:38.940 and I mean a single letter

00:12:40.180 that isn't infused

00:12:42.080 with the spirit

00:12:43.080 of your entire identity

00:12:44.460 and what that means

00:12:46.620 for example

00:12:47.220 if you're going to write

00:12:48.100 an essay

00:12:48.500 for a university course

00:12:49.780 and you're going to do it right

00:12:50.700 it means that you have to

00:12:51.900 you have to write down

00:12:53.560 the closest approximation

00:12:56.340 to the truth

00:12:57.300 that you can manage

00:12:58.440 and that's a very tricky business

00:13:00.460 because

00:13:00.920 to speak

00:13:02.360 or to write the truth

00:13:03.280 means you have to be oriented

00:13:04.620 toward the truth

00:13:06.420 and that you have to have

00:13:07.300 made a practice of that

00:13:08.460 and there isn't anything

00:13:09.620 about that

00:13:10.240 that's temporary

00:13:11.080 or fragmentary

00:13:12.800 it has to be

00:13:13.680 it has to be

00:13:15.900 part of your identity

00:13:17.980 or maybe it has to be

00:13:19.720 your identity

00:13:20.180 and maybe what you're doing

00:13:21.320 when you encourage people

00:13:22.500 to bring their best

00:13:23.240 to the table

00:13:23.840 and you reward them

00:13:24.800 for those offerings

00:13:28.560 that are genuine

00:13:29.380 is that you're

00:13:31.000 encouraging

00:13:31.880 their identity

00:13:33.660 as upward aiming

00:13:35.620 truth tellers

00:13:36.560 and there's no difference

00:13:37.800 between that

00:13:38.620 and encouraging

00:13:39.960 the manifestation

00:13:40.820 of the logos

00:13:41.760 right

00:13:42.280 that's the same thing

00:13:43.760 the logos being

00:13:45.020 the spirit of the word

00:13:46.540 or the spirit of Christ

00:13:47.720 the spirit of God

00:13:49.120 that broods on the water

00:13:51.600 the deep

00:13:53.600 at the beginning of time

00:13:54.800 and that brings

00:13:55.600 the created order

00:13:57.180 into being

00:13:57.900 that's all the same thing

00:13:59.700 you know

00:14:00.500 and

00:14:00.700 identity is a very deep

00:14:03.060 very deep phenomenon

00:14:05.540 and questions about identity

00:14:07.220 are very deep problems

00:14:08.280 they go all the way

00:14:09.140 to the bottom

00:14:09.640 or all the way

00:14:10.300 to the top

00:14:10.920 or both

00:14:11.900 and this is the case

00:14:13.780 with every word

00:14:16.360 that you write

00:14:17.000 when you're writing

00:14:17.700 and this is a good thing

00:14:18.560 to know

00:14:18.900 when you're writing

00:14:19.480 you know

00:14:19.760 you might think

00:14:20.400 that it's okay

00:14:21.020 to be casual

00:14:21.680 with your words

00:14:22.440 it's never okay

00:14:24.200 to be casual

00:14:24.980 with your words

00:14:25.700 there's a

00:14:26.620 it's part of

00:14:27.820 the Judeo-Christian tradition

00:14:29.320 that it is the word

00:14:30.620 that brings

00:14:31.600 reality itself

00:14:33.400 into being

00:14:34.200 out of potential

00:14:35.520 right

00:14:36.500 and that's

00:14:37.020 are you tired

00:14:40.840 of feeling sluggish

00:14:41.580 run down

00:14:42.060 or just not

00:14:42.560 your best self

00:14:43.200 take control

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00:15:33.260 that's the truth

00:15:36.820 and what that means

00:15:37.780 is you bloody well

00:15:38.760 better be careful

00:15:39.500 with your words

00:15:40.200 because

00:15:40.580 every word you speak

00:15:43.160 is either

00:15:43.720 a manifestation

00:15:45.160 of the fact

00:15:46.060 that you're made

00:15:46.800 in the image of God

00:15:48.360 or

00:15:48.720 it's a rebellion

00:15:49.740 against that

00:15:50.600 and there's no such thing

00:15:52.440 as trivial communication

00:15:53.840 if there's

00:15:55.160 if you're communicating

00:15:56.540 trivially

00:15:57.200 or you're communicating

00:15:58.280 about something trivial

00:15:59.360 that just means

00:16:00.100 that you've wandered

00:16:00.840 off the path

00:16:01.560 that's all it means

00:16:03.020 it's just

00:16:04.760 it's an analog

00:16:05.980 of this

00:16:06.580 if you find

00:16:07.700 people boring

00:16:08.600 that's you

00:16:10.480 right

00:16:11.960 because

00:16:12.280 if you listen

00:16:13.420 to people

00:16:13.840 they are not boring

00:16:14.860 they are so interesting

00:16:16.540 that you want

00:16:17.280 to get away

00:16:18.020 from them

00:16:18.660 right

00:16:19.540 right

00:16:20.520 so

00:16:21.720 there's no trivial

00:16:24.120 there's no trivial

00:16:25.540 use of words

00:16:26.580 okay

00:16:27.440 so now

00:16:27.900 let's take that

00:16:28.880 apart a bit

00:16:29.440 as we investigate

00:16:30.480 identity

00:16:30.580 identity

00:16:31.260 we could

00:16:32.940 we could do that

00:16:33.720 we could start

00:16:34.660 the investigation

00:16:35.280 with anything

00:16:36.080 you do

00:16:36.840 but I'm going to use

00:16:38.360 the domain of words

00:16:40.520 because we all talk

00:16:42.720 we all communicate

00:16:43.520 we think in words

00:16:44.620 it's as good a place

00:16:46.740 as any to start

00:16:47.580 or perhaps better

00:16:48.320 than most

00:16:48.940 what are you doing

00:16:50.740 when you're writing

00:16:51.420 well

00:16:53.560 let's say

00:16:55.420 you're using

00:16:55.880 a pen

00:16:56.440 well

00:16:58.380 you're

00:16:58.820 you're drawing

00:17:01.400 you're drawing letters

00:17:02.400 you're

00:17:03.020 moving the muscles

00:17:04.300 of your

00:17:04.940 hand

00:17:06.720 like at the

00:17:07.760 kind of the highest

00:17:08.540 level of resolution

00:17:09.700 at the most

00:17:10.780 at the most

00:17:12.400 precise

00:17:13.940 the most precise

00:17:15.540 formulation

00:17:16.080 is the act of writing

00:17:17.300 it's a motor act

00:17:18.160 it's actually an action

00:17:19.300 right

00:17:20.100 and you have

00:17:20.680 voluntary control

00:17:22.720 over that

00:17:23.380 but interestingly

00:17:24.720 enough

00:17:25.220 what you're doing

00:17:26.760 at that high

00:17:28.620 resolution level

00:17:29.920 the mechanics

00:17:31.200 of writing

00:17:31.980 as an act

00:17:33.400 that shades

00:17:34.820 into

00:17:35.320 mystery

00:17:36.240 right

00:17:36.960 because

00:17:37.300 you can control

00:17:38.340 your hand

00:17:39.080 but you don't

00:17:41.140 know how

00:17:41.820 right

00:17:42.980 like I can move

00:17:43.960 my fingers

00:17:44.460 but I have no idea

00:17:45.500 which individual

00:17:46.920 muscles I'm moving

00:17:48.060 so that's unconscious

00:17:49.920 it's unknown

00:17:50.720 and unconscious

00:17:51.420 and then

00:17:51.920 well the muscles

00:17:53.000 are made out of cells

00:17:54.140 and they work

00:17:55.540 but I have no idea

00:17:56.580 how they work

00:17:57.180 and if I was in charge

00:17:58.140 of them

00:17:58.400 they wouldn't work

00:17:59.820 and so

00:18:00.680 that's just out of my

00:18:02.580 purview

00:18:03.640 right

00:18:03.940 my consciousness

00:18:04.700 doesn't enable me

00:18:06.600 to

00:18:07.040 either

00:18:08.600 apprehend

00:18:09.660 or to control

00:18:10.600 my physiology

00:18:13.500 at that level

00:18:14.360 of detail

00:18:14.860 and that's only

00:18:15.600 the beginning

00:18:16.120 of the level

00:18:16.800 of detail

00:18:17.320 that I don't

00:18:18.360 understand

00:18:18.920 I don't understand

00:18:19.700 how the cells work

00:18:20.740 I certainly

00:18:21.640 don't understand

00:18:22.500 how the proteins

00:18:24.000 and other molecules

00:18:25.220 and sub organs

00:18:26.960 within the cells work

00:18:28.300 I don't even know

00:18:29.480 what they are

00:18:30.280 and

00:18:31.220 much less

00:18:32.400 perceive them

00:18:34.040 or control them

00:18:34.840 and then

00:18:35.200 those

00:18:36.200 cells

00:18:37.280 and the molecules

00:18:38.240 they're made out of

00:18:39.020 are made out of atoms

00:18:39.940 and

00:18:40.240 they're a mystery

00:18:41.500 and then atoms

00:18:42.220 are made out of

00:18:43.180 subatomic particles

00:18:45.060 and no one

00:18:46.280 knows what

00:18:46.840 in the world

00:18:47.220 those things are

00:18:48.260 and so

00:18:48.960 the reason

00:18:49.340 I'm telling you this

00:18:50.120 there's a very

00:18:50.600 specific reason

00:18:51.520 is that

00:18:52.280 even if you're

00:18:53.320 a reductive

00:18:54.120 materialist

00:18:55.040 what you can see

00:18:55.940 is that

00:18:56.460 there are elements

00:18:58.040 of what you do

00:18:58.980 let's say

00:18:59.420 what you do

00:19:00.040 is part of your

00:19:00.920 identity

00:19:01.340 there are elements

00:19:02.480 of your identity

00:19:03.340 that shade

00:19:04.180 into mystery

00:19:05.160 right

00:19:06.040 at the material level

00:19:07.320 you can move

00:19:08.200 your hands

00:19:08.680 but that's about

00:19:09.820 as far down

00:19:10.640 into the physiology

00:19:11.540 as you get

00:19:12.580 there's all these

00:19:13.580 other layers

00:19:14.260 underneath that

00:19:15.120 that

00:19:15.400 who knows

00:19:18.060 how they function

00:19:18.900 it's taking

00:19:21.980 taken the world

00:19:23.320 a very long time

00:19:24.780 to create

00:19:26.060 something like you

00:19:27.020 that can operate

00:19:27.980 with that degree

00:19:29.940 of unbelievable

00:19:30.780 complexity

00:19:31.480 that can have

00:19:32.900 some conscious

00:19:33.780 control over that

00:19:34.940 there's all that

00:19:37.480 mystery

00:19:38.020 underneath

00:19:39.040 what we're

00:19:40.040 capable of

00:19:41.060 consciously apprehending

00:19:42.140 so our identities

00:19:43.980 shade into

00:19:45.040 the mysterious

00:19:45.840 as we move

00:19:48.120 down into

00:19:48.660 the material realm

00:19:49.600 okay

00:19:50.360 so that's a good

00:19:51.040 way of thinking

00:19:51.540 about it

00:19:51.960 we have a conscious

00:19:53.080 domain that we

00:19:53.780 can apprehend

00:19:54.440 there's a mystery

00:19:55.140 on the material

00:19:55.840 side

00:19:56.240 okay

00:19:56.840 then

00:19:57.120 you're writing

00:19:58.080 down letters

00:19:59.600 one by one

00:20:00.540 you're doing that

00:20:02.000 to craft words

00:20:03.280 right

00:20:04.560 and so you

00:20:05.080 choose the words

00:20:06.120 carefully

00:20:06.600 if you're wise

00:20:07.860 what do the words

00:20:09.580 mean

00:20:09.980 and why do you

00:20:10.600 choose those

00:20:11.180 words

00:20:11.560 well

00:20:11.900 that's complicated

00:20:13.480 because

00:20:13.920 each word

00:20:15.340 no letter

00:20:17.060 has a meaning

00:20:17.880 right

00:20:18.900 a letter

00:20:19.680 needs to be

00:20:20.860 combined with

00:20:21.340 other letters

00:20:21.880 before you get

00:20:22.540 any meaning

00:20:23.080 words have

00:20:24.360 meaning

00:20:24.720 but the meaning

00:20:25.640 is partial

00:20:26.520 and context

00:20:28.340 dependent

00:20:28.920 that doesn't mean

00:20:30.220 words are meaningless

00:20:30.980 but it does mean

00:20:32.040 that in order to

00:20:32.940 understand what

00:20:34.580 they mean

00:20:35.040 you have to assess

00:20:36.500 them in relationship

00:20:37.300 to other words

00:20:38.120 and so

00:20:38.560 a word is a unit

00:20:40.040 of meaning

00:20:40.540 but barely

00:20:41.280 a phrase

00:20:42.560 phrase starts to be

00:20:44.240 a little more

00:20:44.700 meaningful

00:20:45.140 and a sentence

00:20:45.840 is even more

00:20:46.500 meaningful

00:20:46.860 than a phrase

00:20:47.580 and then

00:20:47.980 you understand

00:20:49.260 the meaning

00:20:49.720 of a sentence

00:20:50.600 in the context

00:20:51.980 of something

00:20:52.520 like a paragraph

00:20:53.380 like what a paragraph

00:20:54.320 should be

00:20:54.960 as a collection

00:20:55.600 of sentences

00:20:56.220 that address

00:20:57.380 an idea

00:20:57.840 coherently

00:20:58.560 and if you listen

00:20:59.740 to someone

00:21:00.180 who's sophisticated

00:21:01.000 speaking

00:21:01.800 they'll speak

00:21:02.820 in paragraphs

00:21:03.340 and the sentences

00:21:04.280 within the

00:21:04.900 paragraphs

00:21:05.460 will have some

00:21:06.600 relation of meaning

00:21:07.580 to one another

00:21:08.560 otherwise the person

00:21:09.760 is you think

00:21:10.760 the person is

00:21:11.340 all over the place

00:21:12.340 let's say

00:21:12.860 and could well be

00:21:14.000 and the more

00:21:14.880 coherent

00:21:15.560 you are

00:21:16.760 as a personality

00:21:17.780 the more

00:21:18.980 the more

00:21:20.660 sophisticated

00:21:22.340 your ability

00:21:23.960 to erect

00:21:25.400 structures of meaning

00:21:26.940 at broader

00:21:28.500 and broader

00:21:29.180 levels of

00:21:30.180 sophistication

00:21:31.640 and so

00:21:32.440 a very sophisticated

00:21:33.980 speaker

00:21:35.080 or writer

00:21:35.620 will pick

00:21:36.040 the right

00:21:36.420 word

00:21:36.800 and put it

00:21:37.920 in the right

00:21:38.340 phrase

00:21:38.880 and put that

00:21:39.600 phrase in the

00:21:40.180 right sentence

00:21:40.880 the sentence

00:21:42.800 will be an

00:21:43.340 accurate representation

00:21:44.540 of the aim

00:21:45.520 of the thought

00:21:46.260 it'll have a

00:21:47.400 certain rhythm

00:21:48.240 a poetic rhythm

00:21:49.740 it'll have a

00:21:51.600 certain beauty

00:21:52.380 it'll have

00:21:53.720 the proper

00:21:54.520 relationship

00:21:55.200 with the other

00:21:55.880 sentences

00:21:56.340 that surround it

00:21:57.300 that'll make up

00:21:58.260 a paragraph

00:21:58.860 then the

00:21:59.800 paragraphs

00:22:00.280 themselves

00:22:00.940 have

00:22:01.460 a harmonious

00:22:03.280 relationship

00:22:03.900 with one another

00:22:04.680 so that

00:22:05.120 when you read

00:22:06.360 paragraph one

00:22:07.860 and then you

00:22:08.320 read paragraph two

00:22:09.400 paragraph one

00:22:10.260 informs paragraph two

00:22:11.820 and paragraph two

00:22:13.180 perversely

00:22:13.840 also informs

00:22:14.740 paragraph one

00:22:15.840 right

00:22:16.760 and so

00:22:17.200 part of this

00:22:19.280 is a question

00:22:19.920 of where's the

00:22:20.740 meaning in a text

00:22:21.900 and the answer is

00:22:22.720 well the meaning

00:22:23.280 is at multiple

00:22:24.300 levels

00:22:25.060 simultaneously

00:22:25.720 it's like the

00:22:26.960 meaning of the

00:22:27.480 world

00:22:27.760 it's not something

00:22:29.160 you can exactly

00:22:29.900 point to

00:22:30.520 because it's

00:22:31.160 everywhere

00:22:31.700 in this entire

00:22:32.740 hierarchy at once

00:22:34.080 right

00:22:34.840 so now you have

00:22:35.580 the paragraphs

00:22:36.160 in relationship

00:22:37.000 to one another

00:22:37.680 and maybe they

00:22:38.520 make up something

00:22:39.240 like chapters

00:22:40.060 and then the

00:22:41.260 chapters are

00:22:41.960 arranged into a

00:22:42.800 book

00:22:43.080 and then you

00:22:43.500 might think

00:22:43.920 well the book

00:22:44.540 is the unit

00:22:45.180 of meaning

00:22:45.660 but that's not

00:22:46.640 exactly right

00:22:47.480 because you

00:22:48.800 interpret every

00:22:49.680 book you read

00:22:50.540 in relationship

00:22:51.840 to all the other

00:22:52.500 books you ever

00:22:53.100 read

00:22:53.480 and not just

00:22:54.600 the other books

00:22:55.280 that you've read

00:22:55.940 but all the people

00:22:56.680 you've met

00:22:57.140 and all the

00:22:57.460 discussions you've

00:22:58.180 had

00:22:58.380 and every thought

00:22:59.020 you've ever

00:22:59.560 managed to create

00:23:01.400 and every word

00:23:02.540 you've ever uttered

00:23:03.280 all that bears

00:23:04.380 on the meaning

00:23:06.340 of the book

00:23:07.080 and then

00:23:07.500 all that knowledge

00:23:09.320 that you have

00:23:10.140 is a reflection

00:23:10.980 of

00:23:11.440 well the sum

00:23:13.440 total of human

00:23:14.480 knowledge

00:23:15.020 as it's encapsulated

00:23:16.520 let's say in words

00:23:17.720 you will have

00:23:20.840 sampled that

00:23:21.800 as an

00:23:22.160 encultured creature

00:23:23.140 as a speaker

00:23:23.920 of your language

00:23:24.740 and as a reader

00:23:25.620 of the texts

00:23:26.800 of your culture

00:23:27.760 and you're a

00:23:29.260 partial reflection

00:23:30.320 of that body

00:23:31.740 of literature

00:23:32.500 and it's the

00:23:34.240 interaction between

00:23:35.520 you as a

00:23:37.900 embodiment of that

00:23:39.560 body

00:23:40.060 of literature

00:23:40.980 and the specific

00:23:42.140 text that reveals

00:23:43.280 the meaning of the

00:23:44.140 text

00:23:44.560 but that's not all

00:23:46.600 that isn't where

00:23:47.280 it stops

00:23:48.060 because

00:23:48.600 the corpus

00:23:50.780 of human

00:23:51.360 knowledge

00:23:51.880 insofar as

00:23:52.700 it's written

00:23:53.280 is a reflection

00:23:55.740 of the social

00:23:56.900 structure

00:23:57.620 of humanity

00:23:58.460 itself

00:23:59.020 the history

00:23:59.980 of humanity

00:24:00.800 that's a reflection

00:24:02.120 of the

00:24:02.740 psychobiology

00:24:04.500 of the human

00:24:05.340 and the natural

00:24:07.200 order

00:24:07.680 and that's a reflection

00:24:08.780 of the material

00:24:09.620 order

00:24:10.060 and that's a reflection

00:24:11.200 of the cosmic

00:24:12.040 order

00:24:12.540 and all of that

00:24:14.280 operating at the

00:24:15.700 same time

00:24:16.420 all of that

00:24:19.040 is operating

00:24:19.560 at the same

00:24:20.140 time

00:24:20.400 with every

00:24:20.840 single thing

00:24:21.380 that you do

00:24:22.040 and it's the

00:24:23.440 relationship

00:24:24.040 between all

00:24:24.820 of those

00:24:25.260 levels

00:24:26.080 simultaneously

00:24:27.680 that's your

00:24:29.120 identity

00:24:29.580 and so

00:24:31.620 it's no wonder

00:24:32.480 that when

00:24:33.180 identity

00:24:33.680 collapses

00:24:34.400 let's say

00:24:35.120 at the highest

00:24:35.740 levels

00:24:36.240 that the

00:24:37.660 problem

00:24:38.080 is overwhelming

00:24:38.980 because

00:24:39.560 in some

00:24:42.380 way

00:24:42.800 in some

00:24:43.280 mysterious

00:24:43.740 way

00:24:44.260 everything

00:24:45.480 that you

00:24:46.040 do

00:24:46.360 every

00:24:46.840 micro

00:24:47.680 behavior

00:24:48.920 that you

00:24:49.620 make manifest

00:24:50.680 is a reflection

00:24:52.240 of the

00:24:53.440 entire

00:24:54.000 order of

00:24:54.720 things

00:24:55.040 all the way

00:24:55.720 from the

00:24:56.160 microcosmic

00:24:56.940 to the

00:24:57.280 macrocosmic

00:24:58.020 and possibly

00:24:58.980 beyond

00:24:59.540 because

00:24:59.940 it's the

00:25:00.840 religious

00:25:01.200 presumption

00:25:01.880 that even

00:25:03.020 if you

00:25:03.580 stretched your

00:25:05.720 identity

00:25:06.160 to the

00:25:06.760 further reaches

00:25:07.500 of the

00:25:07.980 cosmic

00:25:08.380 order

00:25:08.740 that's not

00:25:09.280 far enough

00:25:09.920 because

00:25:10.340 the creator

00:25:11.660 of the

00:25:12.060 cosmic

00:25:12.420 order

00:25:12.800 is held

00:25:13.240 to be

00:25:13.740 outside

00:25:14.660 of

00:25:15.100 time

00:25:15.980 and

00:25:16.200 space

00:25:16.680 itself

00:25:17.160 outside

00:25:17.580 of the

00:25:18.020 realm

00:25:18.300 of the

00:25:18.660 conceptual

00:25:19.200 and so

00:25:19.860 your

00:25:20.540 relationship

00:25:21.160 to that

00:25:21.880 ultimate

00:25:22.680 transcendent

00:25:23.960 element

00:25:24.540 also plays

00:25:26.000 a role

00:25:26.520 in

00:25:26.960 determining

00:25:27.800 everything

00:25:28.240 you do

00:25:28.880 so

00:25:30.720 well you

00:25:31.980 can see

00:25:32.440 that

00:25:32.760 you can

00:25:33.140 see

00:25:33.420 that

00:25:33.680 in

00:25:33.860 a

00:25:34.180 sense

00:25:34.480 as a

00:25:34.860 religious

00:25:35.160 vision

00:25:35.700 because

00:25:36.060 all of a

00:25:36.900 sudden

00:25:37.080 you can

00:25:37.660 envision

00:25:38.900 what you

00:25:40.500 do

00:25:40.920 in

00:25:41.900 relationship

00:25:42.520 to all

00:25:43.060 of those

00:25:43.360 levels

00:25:43.780 and see

00:25:44.240 that that's

00:25:44.740 the full

00:25:45.160 reality

00:25:45.640 of every

00:25:46.240 gesture

00:25:47.080 you make

00:25:47.780 let's

00:25:48.540 say

00:25:48.820 and so

00:25:49.840 that's

00:25:51.820 overwhelming

00:25:52.380 but

00:25:54.340 there's no

00:25:55.180 reason to

00:25:55.720 assume

00:25:56.140 that an

00:25:56.500 accurate

00:25:56.860 apprehension

00:25:57.500 of who you

00:25:58.080 actually are

00:25:58.920 would be

00:26:00.180 anything other

00:26:00.760 than overwhelming

00:26:01.520 I mean you're

00:26:02.520 a very

00:26:02.800 complicated

00:26:03.320 creature

00:26:03.960 and God

00:26:04.400 only knows

00:26:04.880 what you're

00:26:05.260 up to

00:26:05.600 or who

00:26:06.460 you are

00:26:07.000 or what

00:26:07.280 you are

00:26:07.640 in the

00:26:07.860 final

00:26:08.140 analysis

00:26:08.600 it's not

00:26:09.060 like we

00:26:09.420 know

00:26:09.800 and it's

00:26:11.260 certainly

00:26:11.580 not the

00:26:12.000 case

00:26:12.220 that you're

00:26:12.620 divorced

00:26:13.140 in any

00:26:13.660 simple

00:26:14.140 sense

00:26:14.660 from

00:26:14.900 everything

00:26:15.260 else

00:26:15.780 I mean

00:26:16.380 you're

00:26:16.540 certainly

00:26:16.760 not

00:26:17.020 divorced

00:26:17.360 from

00:26:17.600 other

00:26:17.780 people

00:26:18.200 and if

00:26:19.000 you are

00:26:19.420 well

00:26:19.660 God

00:26:20.000 help

00:26:20.340 you

00:26:20.520 because

00:26:20.880 it's

00:26:21.720 very

00:26:22.100 bitter

00:26:22.840 and

00:26:23.180 horrible

00:26:23.580 existence

00:26:24.120 to

00:26:24.560 exist

00:26:25.560 in

00:26:25.860 isolation

00:26:26.280 and

00:26:26.740 that also

00:26:27.540 highlights

00:26:28.040 something

00:26:28.440 it

00:26:28.640 highlights

00:26:29.360 the fact

00:26:29.900 that

00:26:30.080 whatever

00:26:30.340 your

00:26:30.620 identity

00:26:30.980 is

00:26:31.400 it's

00:26:31.620 not

00:26:32.000 merely

00:26:32.540 subjective

00:26:33.400 you know

00:26:34.600 and this

00:26:34.920 is something

00:26:35.460 that our

00:26:35.820 culture

00:26:36.180 is

00:26:36.400 we're

00:26:37.000 just

00:26:37.220 tearing

00:26:37.640 ourselves

00:26:38.140 apart

00:26:38.580 about

00:26:38.860 that

00:26:39.120 at the

00:26:39.380 moment

00:26:39.620 because

00:26:40.000 the

00:26:40.680 claim

00:26:41.200 of

00:26:41.420 the

00:26:41.640 hedonistic

00:26:42.420 rationalists

00:26:44.000 essentially

00:26:44.640 is that

00:26:45.820 your

00:26:47.120 identity

00:26:47.500 is

00:26:47.780 whatever

00:26:48.040 you

00:26:48.340 say

00:26:48.600 it

00:26:48.780 is

00:26:49.060 or

00:26:49.800 whatever

00:26:50.100 you

00:26:50.340 feel

00:26:50.920 it

00:26:51.120 is

00:26:51.360 whatever

00:26:51.980 the

00:26:52.260 hell

00:26:52.440 that

00:26:52.780 means

00:26:53.140 or

00:26:53.940 well

00:26:54.400 it's

00:26:54.640 very

00:26:54.860 much

00:26:55.080 akin

00:26:55.400 to

00:26:55.620 saying

00:26:55.900 that your

00:26:56.280 identity

00:26:56.700 is

00:26:57.040 identical

00:26:57.460 to

00:26:57.780 whatever

00:26:58.260 whim

00:26:59.160 or desire

00:26:59.880 grips you

00:27:00.520 at the

00:27:00.860 moment

00:27:01.220 and that's

00:27:02.200 just

00:27:02.360 palpably

00:27:03.060 untrue

00:27:03.740 partly for

00:27:04.620 the reasons

00:27:05.020 I laid

00:27:05.520 out

00:27:05.800 it's like

00:27:06.220 there's a lot

00:27:07.000 of things

00:27:07.280 going on

00:27:07.820 when you're

00:27:08.200 doing

00:27:08.460 anything

00:27:08.880 and what

00:27:09.800 you want

00:27:10.680 or what

00:27:11.100 you desire

00:27:11.760 or the

00:27:12.300 desire

00:27:12.760 that makes

00:27:13.280 itself

00:27:13.680 manifest

00:27:14.140 within you

00:27:14.780 is like

00:27:15.400 one tiny

00:27:16.220 little

00:27:16.600 element

00:27:17.320 of that

00:27:17.800 but why

00:27:18.380 you would

00:27:18.820 proclaim

00:27:19.780 that

00:27:20.380 to be

00:27:20.860 your

00:27:21.100 entire

00:27:21.500 identity

00:27:22.060 that's

00:27:22.860 merely

00:27:23.860 a

00:27:24.220 consequence

00:27:24.720 of the

00:27:25.220 fact

00:27:25.500 that the

00:27:26.260 transcendent

00:27:27.880 order of

00:27:28.380 identity

00:27:28.780 has collapsed

00:27:29.600 we're so

00:27:30.480 confused

00:27:31.400 in our

00:27:32.180 culture

00:27:32.560 that we

00:27:33.000 believe

00:27:33.460 that

00:27:33.780 our

00:27:34.720 sexual

00:27:35.220 preference

00:27:35.740 is our

00:27:36.240 identity

00:27:36.740 for example

00:27:37.680 and that's

00:27:38.700 well

00:27:40.400 good luck

00:27:40.920 with that

00:27:41.520 you know

00:27:42.500 I mean

00:27:42.960 first of all

00:27:45.080 if your

00:27:45.420 sexual

00:27:46.160 preference

00:27:46.720 is your

00:27:47.320 identity

00:27:47.900 which means

00:27:49.540 in some

00:27:49.980 sense

00:27:50.400 that that's

00:27:52.360 that what

00:27:53.060 would you

00:27:53.340 say

00:27:53.580 that's the

00:27:54.120 that's

00:27:54.820 that's the

00:27:56.460 defining element

00:27:57.480 of your

00:27:57.920 character

00:27:58.460 I don't want

00:27:59.980 to be anywhere

00:28:00.480 near you

00:28:01.180 I mean that

00:28:02.580 because

00:28:02.920 what you want

00:28:04.380 from other

00:28:04.840 people

00:28:05.320 is you want

00:28:06.860 their desires

00:28:07.780 to take

00:28:08.440 you

00:28:09.260 and the

00:28:11.200 world

00:28:11.520 into account

00:28:12.440 right

00:28:13.340 it can't

00:28:13.960 there's no

00:28:14.840 possible way

00:28:15.760 that things

00:28:16.260 can work

00:28:16.860 if it's

00:28:18.060 not only

00:28:18.540 all about

00:28:19.060 you

00:28:19.620 let's say

00:28:20.620 but worse

00:28:21.220 than that

00:28:21.660 it's all

00:28:22.500 about whatever

00:28:23.120 fragment

00:28:23.940 of you

00:28:24.780 say

00:28:25.540 biological

00:28:26.400 instinctual

00:28:27.360 fragment

00:28:28.000 that happens

00:28:29.060 to have

00:28:29.440 the upper

00:28:30.040 hand

00:28:30.680 subjectively

00:28:32.060 within you

00:28:32.800 at the

00:28:33.200 moment

00:28:33.600 that's

00:28:34.560 just

00:28:34.840 there's

00:28:36.340 no

00:28:36.500 community

00:28:37.080 in that

00:28:37.700 right

00:28:38.620 there's

00:28:38.840 no

00:28:39.060 consideration

00:28:39.780 for other

00:28:40.460 people

00:28:40.820 there's

00:28:41.440 no

00:28:41.620 future

00:28:42.340 in that

00:28:43.020 there's

00:28:43.600 only

00:28:43.860 the

00:28:44.120 immediate

00:28:44.620 now

00:28:45.420 right

00:28:46.120 and so

00:28:46.600 that

00:28:47.120 proclamation

00:28:47.800 of radical

00:28:48.840 subjective

00:28:49.660 identity

00:28:50.340 based on

00:28:51.400 desire

00:28:51.880 is the

00:28:52.420 reduction

00:28:52.940 of that

00:28:53.420 whole

00:28:53.860 cosmic

00:28:54.600 tree

00:28:55.220 because

00:28:55.900 that's

00:28:56.240 what that

00:28:56.620 is

00:28:56.940 to

00:28:57.280 a

00:28:59.640 fragment

00:29:00.100 of you

00:29:00.800 now

00:29:02.200 and to

00:29:02.860 hell

00:29:03.040 with

00:29:03.220 everything

00:29:03.580 else

00:29:03.980 and

00:29:04.700 I use

00:29:05.680 that

00:29:05.880 language

00:29:06.180 very

00:29:06.500 carefully

00:29:06.920 because

00:29:07.420 the

00:29:08.400 pursuit

00:29:09.000 of that

00:29:09.580 subjective

00:29:10.160 identity

00:29:10.760 is

00:29:11.900 is

00:29:11.920 the

00:29:12.840 worship

00:29:13.360 of that

00:29:13.900 subjective

00:29:14.420 identity

00:29:14.980 that is

00:29:16.080 a pathway

00:29:16.580 to hell

00:29:17.120 and

00:29:17.860 the

00:29:18.480 reason

00:29:18.900 it's

00:29:19.260 a pathway

00:29:19.800 to hell

00:29:20.180 is because

00:29:20.740 it doesn't

00:29:22.060 give a damn

00:29:22.540 for the

00:29:22.860 future

00:29:23.200 or other

00:29:23.540 people

00:29:23.940 and so

00:29:24.460 if we

00:29:25.720 all

00:29:26.940 generate

00:29:28.120 identities

00:29:28.660 that have

00:29:29.280 no

00:29:29.600 consideration

00:29:30.200 for other

00:29:31.440 people

00:29:31.940 or even

00:29:32.920 for your

00:29:33.380 future

00:29:33.900 self

00:29:34.460 for that

00:29:34.920 matter

00:29:35.200 because

00:29:35.440 you know

00:29:35.740 perfectly

00:29:36.220 well

00:29:36.560 that if

00:29:36.900 you're

00:29:37.220 only

00:29:37.960 ruled

00:29:38.500 by

00:29:38.820 your

00:29:39.080 immediate

00:29:39.580 subjective

00:29:40.940 whim

00:29:41.580 now

00:29:42.240 all you're

00:29:43.160 going to

00:29:43.340 do

00:29:43.480 is

00:29:43.620 something

00:29:43.820 stupid

00:29:44.400 that's

00:29:44.740 going

00:29:44.840 to

00:29:44.900 get

00:29:45.040 you

00:29:45.180 in

00:29:45.320 terrible

00:29:45.640 trouble

00:29:46.040 in

00:29:46.240 a

00:29:46.360 week

00:29:46.640 or

00:29:46.800 month

00:29:47.300 or

00:29:47.540 in

00:29:48.440 a

00:29:48.600 year

00:29:48.940 or

00:29:49.240 five

00:29:49.720 years

00:29:50.020 down

00:29:50.320 the

00:29:50.500 road

00:29:50.780 if

00:29:51.380 you

00:29:51.480 have

00:29:51.700 an

00:29:51.860 iota

00:29:52.260 of

00:29:52.540 wisdom

00:29:53.000 everything

00:29:54.280 that you

00:29:54.880 do

00:29:55.140 in the

00:29:55.420 present

00:29:55.900 is

00:29:56.620 bounded

00:29:57.220 by

00:29:57.580 your

00:29:57.820 understanding

00:29:58.540 of the

00:29:59.060 repercussions

00:29:59.860 of that

00:30:00.480 action

00:30:00.940 as they

00:30:02.000 cascade

00:30:03.360 into the

00:30:04.000 future

00:30:04.380 and

00:30:04.680 there's

00:30:05.080 not much

00:30:05.520 difference

00:30:06.020 between

00:30:06.400 that

00:30:06.780 say

00:30:07.020 taking

00:30:07.440 your

00:30:07.700 future

00:30:08.080 self

00:30:08.540 into

00:30:08.800 account

00:30:09.160 carefully

00:30:09.620 there's

00:30:10.160 not a

00:30:10.600 lot

00:30:10.860 of

00:30:11.020 difference

00:30:11.500 between

00:30:12.140 that

00:30:12.440 and

00:30:12.580 taking

00:30:12.860 other

00:30:13.140 people

00:30:13.500 into

00:30:13.760 account

00:30:14.240 you know

00:30:15.080 in a

00:30:15.780 harmonious

00:30:16.380 marriage

00:30:16.880 for example

00:30:17.640 presuming

00:30:19.760 such a

00:30:20.160 thing

00:30:20.340 exists

00:30:21.000 it's

00:30:21.600 something

00:30:22.060 to aim

00:30:22.640 for

00:30:22.980 at least

00:30:23.400 in a

00:30:23.740 harmonious

00:30:24.280 marriage

00:30:24.780 there isn't

00:30:26.020 a lot

00:30:26.620 of

00:30:26.880 difference

00:30:27.480 between

00:30:28.400 taking

00:30:28.860 care

00:30:29.180 of your

00:30:29.500 wife

00:30:30.080 say

00:30:31.320 or wife

00:30:32.040 taking

00:30:32.340 care

00:30:32.540 of her

00:30:32.740 husband

00:30:33.020 and

00:30:33.880 the

00:30:34.400 husband

00:30:34.760 taking

00:30:35.260 care

00:30:36.020 himself

00:30:36.660 all

00:30:37.440 things

00:30:37.860 considered

00:30:38.520 or vice

00:30:39.400 versa

00:30:39.780 because

00:30:40.240 well the

00:30:41.260 thing about

00:30:41.700 being married

00:30:42.260 to someone

00:30:42.720 is

00:30:43.080 well they're

00:30:44.380 there right

00:30:44.940 now

00:30:45.500 but they're

00:30:47.000 also there

00:30:47.440 tomorrow

00:30:47.920 and they're

00:30:48.620 there next

00:30:50.040 week

00:30:50.480 and they're

00:30:50.800 there next

00:30:51.320 month

00:30:51.720 and next

00:30:52.360 year

00:30:52.780 and so

00:30:53.800 everything you

00:30:54.440 do with

00:30:55.040 them or to

00:30:55.760 them

00:30:56.160 it sticks

00:30:58.540 around

00:30:59.120 and so

00:31:00.440 when we

00:31:03.240 think about

00:31:03.680 wildly

00:31:04.140 successful

00:31:04.640 businesses

00:31:05.160 we often

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00:31:06.560 great

00:31:06.840 products

00:31:07.360 cool

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00:31:10.180 an unsung

00:31:10.820 hero in their

00:31:11.500 success stories

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00:31:13.560 business

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00:31:14.380 selling simple

00:31:15.140 for millions

00:31:16.040 of entrepreneurs

00:31:16.680 that business

00:31:17.440 is Shopify

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00:32:09.320 conducting

00:32:13.420 yourself so

00:32:14.340 that their

00:32:14.800 welfare is

00:32:15.820 let's say

00:32:17.900 your highest

00:32:18.780 consideration

00:32:19.500 their genuine

00:32:20.460 welfare

00:32:21.080 that's not

00:32:22.740 what they want

00:32:23.780 or even

00:32:24.140 exactly what

00:32:24.900 they need

00:32:25.400 but their

00:32:25.740 highest welfare

00:32:26.500 there's not

00:32:26.940 much difference

00:32:27.600 between

00:32:28.060 making that

00:32:29.340 highest welfare

00:32:30.520 your aim

00:32:31.740 and treating

00:32:33.280 your future

00:32:34.100 self optimally

00:32:35.320 you know

00:32:36.260 because there's

00:32:36.920 you know this

00:32:37.780 perfectly well

00:32:38.540 because there's

00:32:39.600 almost no hell

00:32:40.620 that's more

00:32:41.140 miserable than

00:32:41.980 a really bad

00:32:43.380 marriage

00:32:43.880 because it's so

00:32:45.060 immediate and it's

00:32:45.860 right there and

00:32:46.900 it's there all the

00:32:47.680 time and so

00:32:48.580 you know if you

00:32:50.320 conduct yourself in

00:32:51.380 your own life so

00:32:52.480 that it's all about

00:32:53.260 you and you're

00:32:54.940 married and so

00:32:55.760 your wife takes

00:32:56.640 second place

00:32:57.480 the probability

00:32:58.560 that your

00:32:59.200 relationship is

00:33:00.120 gonna transform

00:33:01.500 itself into

00:33:02.720 something that

00:33:03.400 makes all

00:33:04.960 about you

00:33:05.660 hell is like

00:33:06.840 it's a hundred

00:33:07.780 percent this is

00:33:09.260 also why it's so

00:33:10.160 useless to be

00:33:11.040 selfish it's like

00:33:11.940 what do you mean

00:33:12.500 selfish exactly

00:33:13.600 what self are you

00:33:16.520 talking about when

00:33:17.400 you're selfish

00:33:18.100 right we think

00:33:20.000 well selfish means

00:33:21.080 that it's about

00:33:21.680 me it's like no

00:33:22.580 it's way worse

00:33:23.280 than that because

00:33:24.800 it could be about

00:33:25.980 you in the higher

00:33:26.920 sense right it

00:33:27.820 could be about you

00:33:28.620 in a way that took

00:33:29.520 you tomorrow and

00:33:30.920 you next week and

00:33:32.140 next month and into

00:33:33.040 the future into

00:33:33.780 account that's kind

00:33:35.080 of maturity right

00:33:36.720 if you're mature

00:33:37.800 you're not bound

00:33:39.100 to the present and

00:33:40.880 so you could be

00:33:41.800 selfish in a way

00:33:43.480 that was sophisticated

00:33:45.880 so that you didn't

00:33:47.180 do stupid things

00:33:48.140 right now because

00:33:49.100 they're entertaining

00:33:49.980 or because they

00:33:51.200 rectify a desire

00:33:52.720 that would get you

00:33:53.440 in trouble in the

00:33:54.180 future so when you

00:33:56.120 say someone's

00:33:56.880 selfish that isn't

00:33:57.760 exactly what you

00:33:58.540 mean you mean that

00:33:59.900 they're bound to the

00:34:01.280 present in a way

00:34:02.400 that makes them only

00:34:03.500 the servants of their

00:34:04.600 immediate desire

00:34:05.700 right and that's a

00:34:06.940 form of radical

00:34:08.120 immaturity right

00:34:10.060 because that's a

00:34:10.740 mode of being that's

00:34:11.560 characteristic let's

00:34:12.540 say of two-year-olds

00:34:13.440 before well before

00:34:15.340 they have any

00:34:16.820 cortical maturation

00:34:19.120 at all before

00:34:19.960 they're sophisticated

00:34:20.740 social agents

00:34:21.780 before they understand

00:34:23.060 that the future

00:34:23.780 exists before they're

00:34:25.300 able to take other

00:34:26.220 people into account

00:34:27.340 and so the notion

00:34:29.620 that your identity

00:34:30.580 is subjective in

00:34:34.420 that narrow sense

00:34:35.580 so that you only you

00:34:36.980 can define it for

00:34:38.060 example or that you

00:34:39.580 should be the servant

00:34:41.200 of your own desires

00:34:42.740 that's you're not the

00:34:45.040 servant of your own

00:34:45.840 desires you're the

00:34:46.640 slave of your own

00:34:47.720 desires if there are

00:34:48.700 local and immediate

00:34:49.540 and you don't have

00:34:50.420 the discipline or

00:34:51.340 the wherewithal to

00:34:52.220 control that you're

00:34:53.620 not the master of

00:34:54.580 your own fate you're

00:34:55.540 not acting out your

00:34:57.340 subjective self you're

00:35:00.100 just the prisoner of

00:35:01.680 the instincts of a

00:35:04.040 two-year-old and but

00:35:05.720 the warped the

00:35:06.700 instincts of a warped

00:35:08.040 two-year-old who

00:35:08.940 should have been two

00:35:09.920 when they were two

00:35:10.760 and not when they're

00:35:11.540 40 right so so I

00:35:15.540 this identity so why

00:35:18.100 why did we get

00:35:18.660 obsessed with the

00:35:19.620 idea of subjective

00:35:20.800 identity well I

00:35:22.720 think this is where

00:35:23.820 you know I thought

00:35:25.400 for a long time if I

00:35:26.940 had to classify myself

00:35:28.140 politically I thought

00:35:29.440 for a long time that I

00:35:31.300 was a classic liberal

00:35:32.580 and to some degree and

00:35:34.160 I mean really in the

00:35:35.120 classic sense I don't

00:35:36.080 mean in the progressive

00:35:37.220 sense whatever that is

00:35:38.620 that the liberal

00:35:40.960 philosophy is essentially

00:35:43.480 the presumption that the

00:35:46.020 cardinal level of

00:35:50.580 identity in a political

00:35:53.020 system should be the

00:35:54.180 individual right and

00:35:56.500 there's some things to be

00:35:58.140 said about that I think

00:35:59.760 that a political system

00:36:01.440 that shifts to the group

00:36:03.600 as the locus of identity

00:36:04.940 is very dangerous and

00:36:06.300 unstable so if it starts

00:36:08.120 to become about race for

00:36:09.440 example or ethnicity or

00:36:10.920 gender sex let's say

00:36:13.000 like we should say sex

00:36:15.520 and if the if the

00:36:18.860 emphasis is on the

00:36:19.940 group then you get the

00:36:21.840 war of groups against

00:36:22.900 groups and that's not

00:36:24.080 good and the individual

00:36:25.900 the individual who's

00:36:27.860 capable of suffering gets

00:36:29.380 subjugated to the group

00:36:31.200 and groups get elevated

00:36:33.300 above one another that's

00:36:34.540 a very bad solution but

00:36:36.100 the atomistic individual

00:36:38.420 solution is also not

00:36:40.360 good the thing about

00:36:42.020 classic liberalism right

00:36:43.580 that that insistence on

00:36:45.240 the primacy of the

00:36:46.360 subjective is and the

00:36:47.880 classic liberals knew

00:36:49.380 this that only works in a

00:36:51.600 society well that's the

00:36:53.380 question when does that

00:36:54.520 work and the classic

00:36:56.260 liberals they kind of knew

00:36:57.340 this they knew that the

00:37:00.000 presumption that the

00:37:01.060 individual was sovereign

00:37:02.440 could be treated as

00:37:03.840 sovereign and could be

00:37:05.140 treated as the cardinal

00:37:06.880 unit of analysis and

00:37:08.880 could be treated as the

00:37:10.060 locale let's say of

00:37:11.440 divine right natural

00:37:13.240 rights that was only

00:37:15.460 sustainable in a culture

00:37:17.460 that was intrinsically

00:37:18.760 moral right so let's say

00:37:21.380 that's why for example

00:37:23.520 your nation is established

00:37:26.200 as one nation under God

00:37:29.240 you can pursue you can

00:37:30.920 pursue your individual

00:37:32.160 happiness but only that

00:37:37.120 only works if collectively

00:37:39.040 and individually you're

00:37:41.060 doing something like

00:37:41.940 aiming up and what that

00:37:43.460 would mean is that that

00:37:44.620 that surround I described

00:37:46.800 as characteristic of

00:37:47.940 identity right sort of

00:37:49.500 stretching up into the

00:37:50.820 cosmic order that's intact

00:37:52.680 and functioning now I

00:37:54.940 would say a society that's

00:37:57.620 integrated in relationship

00:37:59.380 to its religious story has

00:38:02.200 that surround and people

00:38:05.160 who are acting out the

00:38:08.160 ethic that might be

00:38:09.180 associated with that

00:38:10.360 religious surround can

00:38:12.220 treat themselves as

00:38:14.020 individuals but if the

00:38:15.780 surround disappears then

00:38:18.160 every individual wars against

00:38:23.020 every other individual right

00:38:24.780 things devolve into chaos you

00:38:27.200 need a unity of belief in the

00:38:30.080 transcendent in order for

00:38:31.660 the individual to be the

00:38:32.880 proper unit of analysis and

00:38:34.820 then of course that begs the

00:38:35.980 question and that's

00:38:36.960 certainly the question of

00:38:38.180 our time well what is that

00:38:40.460 transcendent surround how do

00:38:42.300 you conceptualize that that's

00:38:44.080 another question about what

00:38:46.160 constitutes identity so let's

00:38:49.780 dig into that a little bit what

00:38:52.140 beliefs presumptions elements of

00:38:56.200 identity are necessary so that the

00:38:59.640 individual can be free and

00:39:02.760 sovereign all right I used to ask

00:39:09.680 my students for example why they

00:39:11.540 were writing an essay why are you

00:39:14.380 bothering with this right what's

00:39:16.400 your motivation well that the

00:39:20.740 thoroughly indoctrinated and

00:39:23.020 thoughtless students would say well

00:39:25.680 to get a grade and I had students

00:39:28.620 who literally could not think

00:39:30.520 beyond that they they had no idea

00:39:33.300 that there might be some utility in

00:39:36.120 either thinking or writing outside of

00:39:40.360 the practical consequences of getting

00:39:42.940 the grade and I'm not saying that to

00:39:45.960 denigrate the students I'm saying that

00:39:47.880 to indict the education system because

00:39:50.900 these were students these this was

00:39:53.200 mostly at the University of Toronto where

00:39:54.820 this happened these were these were

00:39:56.300 very high caliber students so they

00:39:59.580 were the beneficiaries let's say of

00:40:01.060 15 year beneficiaries of 15 years of

00:40:04.200 education and many of them had no idea

00:40:07.280 that thinking was useful right well and

00:40:12.960 it is a bit of a mystery it's like why

00:40:15.060 think well if you think before you act

00:40:19.620 you decrease the probability that you'll

00:40:22.440 do something cataclysmically stupid so

00:40:26.200 that's that's the issue that's why you

00:40:28.560 want your thought criticized because

00:40:30.360 you have a stupid idea and you act it

00:40:33.540 out then terrible things will happen to

00:40:36.000 you and maybe if you discuss your stupid

00:40:38.440 idea with someone who loves you they'll

00:40:41.200 point out critically why it's stupid

00:40:44.320 which will hurt your feelings but you

00:40:47.620 won't die right and so parents do that for

00:40:51.900 teenagers all the time right and mostly

00:40:55.380 they don't die as a consequence so so what

00:41:00.600 are you doing when you're you're writing

00:41:02.640 well you're you're writing why are you

00:41:06.460 writing the essay well let's say on the

00:41:09.840 philosophical side to improve your

00:41:11.880 thinking okay I'm gonna leave that aside

00:41:15.760 for a moment we'll return to that idea

00:41:17.620 I'll just walk through this a little

00:41:20.360 more practically well I have to complete

00:41:23.340 the essay to get marked and then I have

00:41:27.460 to why do you care if you get a mark

00:41:30.780 well I can't pass the course unless I get

00:41:34.200 a mark is why do you care if you pass

00:41:38.080 the course well if I don't pass the course

00:41:40.080 I can't finish my year well why do you

00:41:44.740 care about that well if I don't finish

00:41:47.240 the year then I can't get my degree and

00:41:49.300 so well who why do you care about your

00:41:51.560 degree but there's an infinite regress in

00:41:54.260 questioning here why do you care about

00:41:55.780 your degree students start to get

00:41:57.460 uncomfortable if you push them to that

00:42:00.080 point because they often have been on a

00:42:03.300 kind of automatic track right it's that

00:42:05.700 especially if they're conscientious students

00:42:08.020 they went to university because well

00:42:10.000 that's the thing you do if you're smart

00:42:11.680 once you graduate from high school or

00:42:13.500 it used to be the thing you do if

00:42:15.480 you're smart now I don't know what you do

00:42:17.260 if you're smart maybe you go to

00:42:19.300 Peterson Academy so

00:42:21.180 well three hundred thousand dollars to

00:42:26.340 become an idiot nihilistic Marxist seems

00:42:28.880 like a very bad deal to me so

00:42:31.600 I think it'd just be more fun to become

00:42:42.520 a nihilist at the bar you know so

00:42:45.260 be cheaper to probably better for you

00:42:50.520 neurologically in the final analysis

00:42:52.360 anyways so you want to get your degree

00:42:55.700 okay well why why bother well

00:42:59.420 because you want to get a job okay well

00:43:04.580 why do you want to get a job well you

00:43:07.900 need a job to keep body and soul

00:43:09.540 together but there's more to it than

00:43:11.000 that right you maybe you want a job

00:43:12.920 that piques your interest and compels

00:43:15.340 you so it's focused on something what

00:43:18.000 something important to you something

00:43:19.480 that has some meaning to you and then

00:43:21.780 maybe if the person is wise they're

00:43:23.400 also thinking well you know I need to

00:43:25.540 take my place as a responsible social

00:43:28.700 agent and if I have a job well maybe I

00:43:31.620 can attract a husband or a wife and

00:43:34.120 you know maybe I can provide for my

00:43:35.760 children so maybe the career is nested

00:43:38.660 in something like what what service to

00:43:41.300 community service to family hopefully

00:43:44.940 now you know that there could also be

00:43:47.060 well I'd like to make a boatload of

00:43:49.400 money and pursue my hedonistic whims in

00:43:52.000 consequence which is a delusional dream

00:43:54.280 but you know young people can certainly

00:43:56.980 and older people can certainly have that

00:43:58.960 and then you might say well why why do

00:44:02.400 you want to grow up let's say if we

00:44:04.660 assume that establishing some

00:44:08.300 responsibility and taking care of

00:44:10.360 people is part of maturation and that's

00:44:12.680 a tricky question why bother maturing and

00:44:15.820 so that's the question addressed in the

00:44:17.820 story of Peter Pan right so Peter Pan is

00:44:22.180 he's Pan Pan is the God of everything

00:44:27.600 God of the wilderness God of wild instinct

00:44:30.840 and Peter Pan is an eternal child right and

00:44:34.060 he's got this Pan like nature because to

00:44:37.280 be a child is to be under the sway of

00:44:39.700 primordial instinct and there is something

00:44:42.280 attractive about that it's very spontaneous

00:44:44.920 like there's something very attractive about

00:44:46.940 little kids right I mean they're terrible

00:44:49.000 little barbarians and they cannot govern

00:44:52.840 themselves like there are no societies of

00:44:55.900 successful two-year-olds right so well this

00:44:58.820 is a really important thing to understand

00:45:00.640 because you know people are enamored of the

00:45:03.540 purity and brilliance of their toddlers and

00:45:07.240 I can understand that because they are

00:45:08.900 remarkable but they're also they're not

00:45:11.940 adults and so they they're not self-governing

00:45:15.060 they're not autonomous they can't take care of

00:45:17.220 themselves and so all that wonder is fine but

00:45:20.320 it doesn't work right it it has to be

00:45:26.660 replaced by maturity okay but is the

00:45:29.820 sacrifice of the spontaneity of childhood

00:45:32.620 worth the burden of maturity this is the

00:45:36.100 problem that Peter Pan wrestles with now he

00:45:39.580 has Tinkerbell who I like to think of as the

00:45:42.680 porn fairy and so because she doesn't really

00:45:46.860 exist she's kind of an attractive little

00:45:48.780 sprite but and enticing and she flits

00:45:51.680 around but she's imaginary and so she

00:45:54.300 doesn't really require any real commitment

00:45:56.140 and so porn fairy works out quite nicely in

00:45:59.060 that regard and it's certainly the case that

00:46:02.000 being enticed by the porn fairy is a way of

00:46:05.480 continuing a kind of pathological immaturity

00:46:09.140 and foregoing a certain kind of responsibility

00:46:12.240 because it means the possibility of sexual

00:46:14.840 gratification with no relationship and with no

00:46:18.400 adult status and you might say well who the

00:46:20.640 hell cares like if it gratifies my immediate

00:46:23.600 whim then why not do it and you'd especially

00:46:28.720 believe that if your identity was that you were

00:46:31.880 nothing but your immediate desire and so and

00:46:35.080 you know pornography is like 30 percent of

00:46:37.680 internet traffic it's this is not some trivial

00:46:40.620 little social detail this is a major problem you

00:46:44.160 know and we're so what would you say we're so

00:46:48.120 accustomed to the pathology of pornography that

00:46:52.320 we don't even notice what a cataclysmic problem it

00:46:56.260 actually represents we've just given up even being

00:46:58.520 concerned about it except you know on the

00:47:00.320 periphery so that's not good because it's an

00:47:03.820 immense enticement to this sort of hedonistic

00:47:06.500 immaturity that is one of the consequences of the

00:47:10.340 collapse of our identity and so but that isn't

00:47:12.720 the only issue that Peter Pan wrestles with now

00:47:16.260 you remember and you may remember in the story that

00:47:19.140 he makes friends with this girl Wendy and Wendy's an

00:47:22.280 actual girl and Wendy decides she's going to grow up

00:47:25.020 an age right and she gets married and she has

00:47:28.780 children and Peter Pan remains in Neverland which

00:47:31.920 is where everyone immature lives in a land that doesn't

00:47:35.140 exist and he's king of the lost boys which is a kind of

00:47:39.300 king but if all your subjects are lost boys and you're the

00:47:43.460 king that kind of means you're the most hopeless of the worst

00:47:46.480 of the lost boys not not it's like being the tyrant of a

00:47:52.460 totalitarian state it's like well are you the most successful or

00:47:57.720 the least successful and I would say if you rule over hell you're

00:48:02.520 the least successful devil in hell not the most successful devil and so

00:48:08.180 that's a good thing to know about tyrants and so

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00:49:32.480 Peter Pan maintains childhood he refuses to move to maturity he satisfies himself with

00:49:42.840 the imaginary feminine foregoing any relationship with a real woman a

00:49:47.720 sacrificial relationship with a real woman well why sacrificial death of

00:49:52.580 childhood death of immaturity the necessity to forego all other sexual

00:49:58.440 opportunities all that sacrificial sacrificial in relationship to what

00:50:03.580 maturity and responsibility well why bother with that well that's the dilemma

00:50:09.000 that Captain Hook confronts Peter Pan with because Captain Hook is a brutal

00:50:13.960 barbaric power mad dominating tyrant and when Peter Pan looks to adulthood and sees

00:50:22.520 the face of Captain Hook he thinks I don't want any part of that and Captain Hook is

00:50:28.100 worse than a mere tyrant because he's he's a coward as well and what's he

00:50:34.280 afraid of well he's afraid of death and time and how do you know that well what

00:50:40.380 chases him what's a crocodile and the crocodile is a predator and time is the

00:50:47.300 ultimate predator and the crocodile has already got a taste of him just like it has

00:50:51.840 a taste of all of us which is why he's missing a hand and it has a clock in its

00:50:56.480 stomach that's ticking and so Hook is a tyrant because he's terrified of predatory

00:51:02.380 time he's terrified of his own mortality that makes him power mad and then Peter

00:51:08.660 Pan looks at Captain Hook and he thinks yeah no that's not for me but he thinks

00:51:14.800 that's a moral decision but really what he's doing is maintaining his own

00:51:19.140 immaturity so he can stay magic and not take any responsibility this is not a good

00:51:26.120 pathway to identity right and so you can see in that too that there's something

00:51:31.900 if you think that through the way we thought it through let's say you can see

00:51:35.980 that there's something that isn't morally relative about the idea of mature

00:51:41.240 responsibility right it's actually a catastrophe that Peter Pan stays hedonistic

00:51:47.380 and immature it's not someone's opinion that that's not a good thing it's it's it's not a

00:51:53.940 sustainable mode of being in any way it leads to his own pathological

00:51:58.940 degeneration across time there's implications in the Peter Pan text

00:52:03.500 continually that his most likely outcome is suicide and his refusal to mature is a

00:52:09.440 form of suicide anyways because he's killing his best future self that's what

00:52:14.760 you do when you remain immature right is you kill your best future self and if you do

00:52:20.300 that then the temptation for actual suicide is eventually going to loom large

00:52:25.540 because your life will be so miserable as a consequence of your isolated and

00:52:30.480 unproductive loneliness that the weight of existence will become unbearable to you

00:52:36.000 and so there's nothing in that that's okay right it's not just an alternative

00:52:40.900 pathway that hedonistic immaturity it's a complete bloody catastrophe and it's not only

00:52:46.780 a catastrophe subjectively although that's not good it's a catastrophe socially because well

00:52:55.280 wendy loves peter pan but she doesn't get to marry him because he decides to stay in neverland

00:53:00.520 and so that's not good for her and so the heat the immature hedonist terrified of the patriarchal

00:53:10.280 tyrant let's say not only dooms himself to a motive behavior that's that's that that culminates in

00:53:19.440 something like suicidally distressed nihilism but also violates the the order of the relationship

00:53:26.920 between men and women because he refuses to grow up to become the sort of person that a woman could

00:53:32.800 establish a relationship with and of course that demolishes any possibility of future family and so

00:53:39.520 insofar as part of what gives your life meaning across time as my wife pointed out when she

00:53:45.280 started to talk is the fact that you have children that you might love so that's a good deal for you

00:53:51.040 and them and then grandchildren as well is you cut all that off and then what the hell are you going

00:53:56.620 to do when you're 40 or 50 or 60 and isolated and alone and still terminally immature so the probability

00:54:04.900 that that's going to be a good time for you is pretty low it's not going to be a good time for

00:54:11.420 anyone that knows you that's for sure because what the hell good are you and it's worse than that

00:54:16.720 because the bitterness that will accrue to you is a consequence of that pathway to failure that

00:54:23.980 consequence of failing to make the right sacrifices is that you'll become bitter and dangerous and so

00:54:31.040 that's not good socially and so and none of that there's none of that that's morally relative

00:54:38.220 right that's as that's as stark a fact as anything you could ever hope to run across or maybe

00:54:45.160 the starkest of facts and so you write the essay and you get the grade and you get your degree so you can

00:54:55.400 have your career so you can mature so you can be useful to yourself now and your future self and so

00:55:01.720 you can be useful to your wife and your children and so that you can extend yourself across time and if

00:55:10.020 you do that properly then well then that isn't where it ends because maybe you're also a model for other

00:55:16.160 people you're a mentor for other people at least by example and maybe by practice right and you establish

00:55:22.680 a mode of being that if replicated by others stabilizes the whole social order and makes it

00:55:29.380 trustworthy and productive and then everybody can trust each other and cooperate and if they all trust

00:55:35.120 each other and cooperate then they can do impossible things together and they can make the desert bloom and

00:55:40.240 everyone can thrive and so that's a good deal

00:55:43.480 we know that one of the best predictors of long-term success from a psychological perspective is

00:55:53.080 trait conscientiousness it's not as good a predictor as in as native intelligence let's say but

00:56:00.320 it's a good predictor and you want to hire conscientious people for most jobs and conscientious

00:56:06.580 people are willing to forego immediate gratification to take care of the future that's a sacrificial gesture

00:56:12.380 they'll let go of what they want and need right now to stabilize things in the long run and for other

00:56:21.020 people and that's the very definition of maturity in fact it's likely that the reason we have a cortex

00:56:28.140 let's say the top part of our brain that makes us specifically human is so that we can replace the

00:56:35.020 immediate demands for gratification of our base instincts with a long what would you say a

00:56:43.660 a mode of vision and action that takes not only ourselves our narrow selves into account but

00:56:51.900 the iterating future and other people right so that's what that's and that's what you're trying to

00:56:57.740 encourage in your children when they mature so they can take turns and share and play with other

00:57:05.420 children and be good sports you know the sort of good sports that help their teammates develop and not

00:57:11.660 just them and that can share the glory in victory and can tolerate defeat with some degree of nobility and

00:57:20.220 all of that well what's the alternative that bitter resent resentful immature temper tantrum

00:57:28.860 that's the alternative that's there's nothing in that that's acceptable or good and there's nothing

00:57:35.100 about that that's arbitrary again those are stark facts of life okay so what that implies is that

00:57:42.140 that at the higher levels of your identity let's say out in the realm of maturity the things you're doing

00:57:49.980 locally like right now the words you're saying the gestures you make they're associated with this

00:57:57.660 hierarchy of value that extends out into the future in the community and at and as you near the uppermost

00:58:05.820 reaches it's associated with something like mature responsibility but that's not yet why be mature

00:58:14.540 and responsible because you can ask the same question again well

00:58:22.140 we laid out the alternative immature and irresponsible that's not going to be very good for you

00:58:28.860 it's going to cause a lot of pain and misery it's going to culminate in hopelessness and it's going

00:58:33.580 to be pretty bad for everyone else well what would be the alternative to that let's say well what are

00:58:39.180 you pursuing when you're pursuing mature responsibility well you could think about it in terms of duty

00:58:46.940 right duty to the future duty to other people that's a kind of a conservative approach to the idea of

00:58:52.380 maturation right is that you it stops being about you it starts being about your family your town your

00:59:01.580 state your nation patriotism comes out of that right you're serving some higher order traditional

00:59:09.500 structure and it's the traditional structure that binds everyone together if it's functioning properly

00:59:14.940 but there's more to maturity than that there's more to it than that because being able to bear

00:59:21.180 your duty to bear up under your duty and to be responsible doesn't exhaust the realm of your

00:59:29.420 of the possibility of your identity and so once we step beyond mere maturity we start to step into the

00:59:39.180 transcendent realm that touches on the religious so

00:59:45.260 think about the story of the hobbit we think about an adventure story right so we're attracted to adventure

00:59:51.980 stories that portray a hero now a hero can be a king who is the embodiment of the stable

01:00:02.220 and just state but that's typically not a hero in a hero story a hero story a hero in a hero story

01:00:10.380 is usually an adventurer right so you see that for example in the hobbit you see that in the lion king

01:00:17.260 because the hero of the lion king isn't mustafa the father the hero of the lion king is simba who's the

01:00:23.580 son the son is the hero that's a good way of thinking about that's very typical in literary representations

01:00:31.740 the father is necessary but the son is the hero you see that echoed in the christian story because christ is

01:00:39.580 the hero of the biblical corpus at least from the christian perspective and that's an element of the

01:00:46.700 divine the son and it's the element of the divine that's associated with adventure okay so let's let's

01:00:53.500 walk through that let's take a more prosaic adventure story that would be the hobbit is a good example

01:01:01.260 everybody knows that story so the hobbit is this sort of nondescript every man there's nothing remarkable

01:01:10.300 about him in any real in any obvious sense he's certainly not a wizard he's he's not an elf he's not

01:01:20.780 magic he's a good decent beginner that's a good that's a good way of conceptualizing him he lives in this

01:01:30.540 circumscribed area right so in both the lord of the rings and in the hobbit the shire is it's sort of

01:01:37.980 like your neighborhood if it was only full of naive people and all those naive people know that that

01:01:43.820 eye of soron is gathering in the distance constantly that's china as far as i can tell

01:01:53.020 that all-seeing eye of the tyrannical state right that's over the horizon the terrible dragon

01:02:00.380 that has the capability of destroying everything that's lurking out beyond what's really apprehensible

01:02:08.380 and all the ordinary people in the shire want nothing to do with that they want to have their

01:02:15.020 circumscribed lives and you can understand that and one of the things that makes the hobbit himself

01:02:20.700 let's say attractive as a character is because he does have that pull towards tranquil domesticity and

01:02:27.020 that's not a vice it's only a vice when you insist upon that when the times

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01:03:43.180 don't allow for that right and it's questionable at the moment for example whether the times allow for that

01:03:49.820 so far yes but i wouldn't count on that continuing not unless we become more assiduous adventurers

01:03:58.700 so what happens to the hobbit well he's called out by a magical agent it's gandalf in this case

01:04:05.020 to have an adventure okay so what does that mean what's a magical agent a magical agent is one of those

01:04:12.700 things that you encounter in your life that transforms your aim it transforms your identity so you can

01:04:19.260 imagine that you have a stable identity from time to time you kind of know who you are but then

01:04:24.460 imagine that well fair enough but what about the possibility of further development right because if

01:04:30.540 you were really who you could be you only you wouldn't only be what you are properly you'd also be

01:04:38.620 moving towards something more right and so if your character is fully developed sort of at the outer

01:04:45.260 edges of your identity beyond mere maturity you're not only mature and responsible you're an agent

01:04:52.300 that's transforming itself into something that's even better and what happens in your life is there

01:04:57.420 are magical occurrences that transform your aim and sometimes those are people that you meet that are

01:05:05.100 mentors or who inspire you in some way or sometimes it's the call of your conscience there's

01:05:11.820 something bothering you deeply and you decide to pursue that sometimes it's someone you fall in

01:05:17.660 love with or an opportunity that falls in your lap and that requires you to sacrifice who you are

01:05:25.020 so that you can take the next step to become who you might be and that's what's portrayed in the

01:05:31.420 story of the hobbit in a mythological manner because

01:05:34.860 the hobbit goes outside his zone of comfort like abraham in the old testament and has to develop

01:05:43.180 elements of his character that he had regarded as

01:05:48.380 undesirable even the hobbit himself has to become a thief in order to become a hero and and what does

01:05:55.340 that mean it means that you never know when you might need the darker sides of your character

01:06:00.700 integrated within you in a manner that doesn't terrify you in order to make to take the next step

01:06:06.700 forward you know if you're not a bit of a monster and you encounter a monster you're going to lose

01:06:13.900 so you need to have some of the monster within you that's what happens to harry potter right

01:06:19.580 that's why he is able to attain ascendance over voldemort's he has a piece of voldemort's soul

01:06:25.100 hidden inside him right you can call on the part of you that has the capacity for mayhem to protect

01:06:33.100 you and those you love when mayhem comes threatening but that has to be developed and that's a terrifying

01:06:39.020 thing morally because it's easy to be dutiful and narrow and not allow that capacity to reveal itself

01:06:46.700 but you never know when you're going to need it and you're definitely going to need it when the

01:06:51.100 dragons come flying in and so well why the dragon because that's what the hobbit eventually has to

01:06:58.140 confront and that's the oldest story of mankind the confrontation with the dragon literally we

01:07:04.140 the oldest story we have is the enuma elish from mesopotamia and it's the story of the combat with

01:07:10.060 the dragon the hero of the enuma elish confronts the cosmic dragon and makes the world out of its pieces

01:07:17.820 right something echoed in the old testament stories in the representation of jehovah as

01:07:24.620 the force that triumphs over the leviathan right so there's this idea of combat with well what's a

01:07:32.460 dragon a dragon's a predator predator as such right a dragon is a predatory cat and it's a predatory bird

01:07:41.020 and it's a predatory reptile and it's and it's and it's and it's fire which is its own form of predator

01:07:48.620 because fire is a primordial threat and so a dragon is an amalgamation of everything terrifying into one

01:07:57.180 figure and the hero who exists at the ultimate edge of identity is the ordinary person who takes it upon

01:08:08.060 himself to transform himself into the hero who can confront the dragon and prevail and what does

01:08:16.540 prevail mean well it means to gain the treasure that the dragon eternally guards and that's the

01:08:23.980 next level of identity that hero's story on the outer edges of what would you say the cosmic

01:08:31.580 reaches of human identity but that's not the outer most limit and you see as you move farther out

01:08:40.380 or farther down or farther up pick your metaphor you wander into territory that's increasingly religious

01:08:47.900 in nature and so let me lay out a level of identity that's even beyond the mythological hero

01:08:56.220 and the easiest way to do that is to use the christian passion as the example

01:09:06.460 what's the ultimate predator

01:09:10.620 death

01:09:13.100 and the evil

01:09:15.980 so that's that's what would you say that would be a abstraction of the idea of predator

01:09:21.500 right so death is the clock in the belly of the crocodile right and malevolence well

01:09:31.740 the worst predator is the predator who isn't merely an animal that has its next meal in mind but

01:09:39.020 someone who or something that wants to take you out in the manner that makes you suffer most pointlessly

01:09:47.180 let's say so there's the combination of death and malevolence is something like the ultimate challenge

01:09:54.140 or the ultimate predator and so that's a it's like the king of all dragons that's a reasonable way of

01:10:01.660 thinking about it death and malevolence itself and so the ultimate hero is the person who

01:10:08.540 who determines to confront the ultimate forces of destruction voluntarily and that's the story

01:10:19.100 that's encapsulated in the christian passion well why well because it's a story of

01:10:27.900 it's a it's an ultimate story it's the story of the ultimate exposure to the

01:10:34.220 the furthest reaches of mortal catastrophe so you you can just think it through i mean rationally

01:10:42.220 not asking for any suspension of disbelief here i'm i'm telling you how this story of identity works

01:10:49.900 so it's a terrible thing to die that's tragedy

01:10:55.660 it's a worse thing to die young

01:10:57.180 it's a worse thing to die after being tormented when you're young it's a worse thing to die if

01:11:06.060 you're tormented if you're tormented at the hands of your own people and you're betrayed by your best

01:11:11.420 friend and your own people choose to torment you even when they could have picked someone they knew

01:11:17.820 to be a villain to substitute for you even though they knew he was a villain and knew you were good

01:11:23.900 it's worse to face that fate at the hands of your own mob if behind that fate there is a foreign

01:11:33.980 tyrant who occupies your land right that the barbaric empire of rome in in the story of the christian

01:11:42.060 passion it's worse to have all that happen to you when you're young it's worse to have it happen to you

01:11:49.260 when you're young in front of the people who love you particularly your mother it's worse to have all

01:11:57.180 of that happen in the most unfair and torturous possible manner which was the crucifixion because

01:12:04.140 that's why the romans designed that punishment and that wasn't bad enough because crucifixion wasn't

01:12:12.140 sufficient to satisfy the bloodthirst of the mob so christ had to undergo a flaying before being

01:12:21.100 crucified and none of that's bad enough yet because the worst possible tragedy is all that but not only

01:12:32.140 all that all that inflicted on the least possible deserving person right so that's an ultimate

01:12:41.420 tragedy and that's not enough yet and so that we're really stretching out to the furthest possible

01:12:47.740 reaches of identity there's a christian tradition that after christ is crucified because all of that's

01:12:54.780 not enough he has to descend into hell itself and what does that mean it means that at the ultimate

01:13:01.980 reaches of human identity it's not only the confrontation with catastrophe and death that's

01:13:07.900 required but the full-fledged confrontation with malevolence itself and then the ultimate hero is the

01:13:16.060 person who's the person who can do that voluntarily without being corrupted while maintaining his upward

01:13:22.700 aim that's identity all of that's identity right that's that jacob's ladder that stretches up from the

01:13:33.020 earth to the heavens right that that situates every person in the confines of a heavenly hierarchy with that

01:13:42.940 ultimate heroic sacrificial gesture at the pinnacle well why well

01:13:54.140 the person who dares the ultimate gains the ultimate reward well that's represented in the gospel text says

01:14:00.940 the resurrection that's represented as the reconciliation of god and man right as the antithesis to death

01:14:08.780 and evil and evil and it is the case that to the degree that each person is capable of voluntarily taking

01:14:15.980 on the burden of being unto themselves and moving forward and upward despite that catastrophe that

01:14:25.180 death is overcome and evil defeated and so all of that's true and the collapse of that truth

01:14:32.540 leaves us in a situation where our entire identities are up for question now the alternative to that is

01:14:39.820 something terrible because the alternative is coming to understand what identity means and coming to

01:14:45.740 understand that means coming to understand what i just described is that that's the burden that's placed

01:14:52.940 on people who want to get to the bottom of what constitutes identity right is that you're called upon to

01:15:02.140 maintain your upward aim regardless of the catastrophe of life and the promise is that

01:15:13.260 if you do that voluntarily the spirit of the cosmic order will walk with you while you do it

01:15:19.820 right and that seems right because we know practically we know psychologically that you become braver and

01:15:28.700 better with every decision you make to confront what obstacle terrifies and terrifies you and stops you in your

01:15:39.180 tracks right you develop into more of what you could be by constantly confronting the things that

01:15:48.700 challenge you most deeply and there's no end to that and in principle there's no end to the amount of

01:15:53.660 development that can emerge as a consequence of that and that's another part of that upward

01:15:58.060 spiraling jacob's ladder that leads up into the

01:16:03.180 incomprehensible reaches of the divine itself and so and then what you have in that is just as you

01:16:10.300 fade into incomprehensibility

01:16:13.100 on the material end of things you fade into comprehend incomprehensibility at the transcendent

01:16:19.420 end of things too and that what your identity is is the thing that bridges the gap between

01:16:27.500 earth and heaven and really and that's who we are and that's what we need to understand

01:16:35.420 to set things right and that's a much better story than you can do whatever you want whenever you want

01:16:43.980 with anyone you want and to hell with the consequences but it's a terrible

01:16:51.420 burden it's a terrible thing to realize that that adventure is your moral responsibility and that

01:16:57.820 if you accept it then you set the world right and if you reject it then you destroy yourself and

01:17:05.180 everything around you and we're at a state now where we need to understand all that and not only

01:17:12.700 understand it but act it out with every word with every gesture right with every impulse with every

01:17:22.540 with every fiber of our being so that we can bring the order that's good into being in the world and

01:17:32.220 and that's an investigation into identity from first principles thank you very much

01:17:48.140 you

The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast - December 26, 2024

We Who Wrestle With God： In the Image of God

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