The King's Hall - Destroying the Longhouse

00:00:00.000 Hey guys, Brian here with a big announcement from New Christendom Press.

00:00:03.860 Possibly our most important book yet is now available for pre-order.

00:00:08.300 It's called The Longhouse, How Feminism Conquered the West and Made Us All Miserable.

00:00:13.400 And in it, Eric and I take you through the dark history of feminism,

00:00:17.240 what it's done to everything from politics to church life to the economy,

00:00:21.220 and what to do about it.

00:00:23.040 Pre-order it today at newchristendompress.com slash longhouse.

00:00:26.600 And as a thank you for pre-ordering, you'll get 10% off automatically.

00:00:30.900 We'll also be signing the first 1,000 copies, so pick yours up today.

00:00:35.800 This episode of the King's Hall Podcast is brought to you by Armored Haven, Livingstone

00:00:40.500 Studio, Farmer Bill's Provisions, Rooted Pines Homestead, Backwards Planning Financial,

00:00:45.820 Keepwise Partners, Muzzleloaders.com, New Dominion Design Co., and our supporters at

00:00:50.860 Patreon.com.

00:00:51.880 well welcome to this episode of the king's hall podcast and today we are joined by the same three

00:00:58.260 people that are always on this show let's start with our keynote host ben garrett yes my name is

00:01:06.540 ben brian sove garrett that's actually my ufc fighter name brian i had to do that because

00:01:12.500 brian did that to us you when you and i were gone and they did the episode oh yeah he was like just

00:01:18.640 the regular hosts me and ben garrett the haunted cosmos invasion of the king's hall we've gotten

00:01:25.940 who was the other host it was brad what'd you say brad ben brian survey garrett oh yeah i forgot i

00:01:34.620 forgot so just so everybody knows we didn't kick brian off the show but the main point is that

00:01:38.800 brian is expendable he can be replaced well temporarily so i've always said that nobody's

00:01:45.540 listen nobody listened i always said it i said brian's expendable so uh brian first of all bailed

00:01:52.720 on the right response conference yeah yeah uh he made up some excuse that his wife was having a

00:01:58.480 baby and then she did have the baby like that week yes um so actually he had time to make it

00:02:04.740 to the conference but as joel said at the conference he chose not to come that was savage

00:02:10.220 So, yeah, Brian is on paternity leave, but Dan Burkholder is not yet on paternity leave.

00:02:17.820 No, not yet.

00:02:18.200 So, Dan, welcome to the show.

00:02:19.460 First of all, flannel, camo hat.

00:02:21.700 Here I am. 0.70

00:02:22.460 You are representing, every show has to represent the, you know, white collar intellectual. 0.58

00:02:29.020 Here I am.

00:02:30.200 You called and I answered.

00:02:32.300 Here I am.

00:02:33.400 So we're going to be doing a bit of debrief on the conference.

00:02:36.460 I actually learned quite a lot about a lot of things at the conference.

00:02:39.740 like what uh the longhouse oh yeah i thought you taught on that yeah but i learned as i taught oh

00:02:46.800 really yeah i mean chad gpt wrote the manuscript it was fascinating no it didn't i'm kidding i'm

00:02:52.520 kidding uh ben so i want to ask you first of all uh you gave a pitch for a few things i did at the

00:02:59.860 conference and uh one of the things was brian's new album yes awake the dawn uh the dawn has been

00:03:06.600 awakened indeed indeed it has and in fact you can pre-order vinyls right now you see ben it's like

00:03:12.920 pre-programming it's beautiful uh i we we did also by the way we met a lot of anons and it was funny

00:03:21.780 because after the whole kerfuffle last year with you know the vitriol against the anons um every

00:03:28.480 single one i met i was like do you live in your mom's basement and they were like no i was like

00:03:33.200 are you an incel and they were like no i have like six kids i'm like what do you do for work

00:03:38.800 and almost every single one of them was like a very successful business owner so i thought that

00:03:44.000 was exciting oh yeah no names revealed but the anons were definitely there yeah they were

00:03:51.040 vindicated um one of the things that was interesting at the conference we had a really

00:03:55.580 good panel i think there was uh one panel uh the one of the first days one of the first days well

00:04:02.580 i guess it was technically the second day there was a panel yeah friday morning uh but you know

00:04:07.760 for my money our panel was the best panel oh it's not even close uh so we had andrew isker

00:04:12.800 we had cj angle uh we had dan burkholder myself ben and then a last minute addition

00:04:21.820 uh thomas acord and that was really cool so we did this panel first of all i was surprised dan by

00:04:29.540 cj angle was white pilling cj i mean rolled my socks down that guy was he rolled my socks yeah

00:04:37.500 what does that mean is that like a midwest i hope i used it in the right way what does that even mean

00:04:42.340 it means that something was so good it just it rolled your socks down i don't know there's

00:04:46.540 probably some sexual innuendo that i don't understand so if there is please forgive me

00:04:51.500 it was out of ignorance anyway no but cj cj man he brought the fire he did i uh just his

00:04:59.140 his reputation is such that it seems like he's very, he's, you know,

00:05:03.360 uh, manages risk really well. And, um,

00:05:07.960 and he's definitely more intelligent, you know, than the average guy. Yes.

00:05:12.140 But, uh, on that panel, uh, at right response ministries,

00:05:16.680 crisis King conference in Texas, he,

00:05:20.120 he gave the white pill like it, lots of hope. Uh, 0.92

00:05:24.400 and I think a lot of it is because of the momentum that they're getting with

00:05:26.980 the Ridge Runner project in Tennessee and the success they're seeing there.

00:05:30.740 And also the pushback that they're getting from Tennessee media is probably

00:05:35.360 really,

00:05:36.380 really solidifying their tribe in Tennessee.

00:05:41.180 Yeah.

00:05:41.380 So a fresh round of pushback from a Nashville reporter can't even remember

00:05:47.200 his name.

00:05:47.640 Doesn't even matter.

00:05:48.540 Phil Williams.

00:05:49.280 Honestly,

00:05:49.800 who is that?

00:05:51.020 But I think a lot of it is renewed because Isker was on Tucker Carl's.

00:05:56.980 and i think it's interesting dan because in in our movement these conferences you go to them

00:06:01.660 and it's kind of uh it's a window kind of into what's happening at a broader scale because you

00:06:06.820 get to talk to all these people it seems like trends come into play you start to notice trends

00:06:14.000 being at the conference talking to different people maybe hearing the same thing over and

00:06:17.920 over again so i felt like that was really uh helpful but one of the things like cj had mentioned

00:06:25.340 was in the paleocon neocon fights of the 80s and 90s it was really the fact that people on the

00:06:33.640 right were just like eating their own they were devouring one another and so cj had called for

00:06:39.360 we need to band together those of us who are aligned and we need to allow for differences

00:06:45.480 be friends and push the ball forward but we've also noticed something i think that joel said

00:06:51.720 which is that now that there's victory a lot of people are actually stepping back uh from the

00:06:58.660 fight this is sort of like the bane what is the full bane quote like victory has defeated you oh

00:07:03.700 yeah yeah uh he's like you've grown fat in peace time that's not what he says but more or less

00:07:11.800 that's the idea victory has made you weak victory has defeated you yeah i have to look up the full

00:07:17.940 quote but uh so ben i want to ask you about that um it seems like in the last couple of years

00:07:24.780 maybe the game has changed like four or five times uh in terms of the rights political cultural

00:07:32.260 so just kind of curious what you make of it yeah it's been a season of shake-up uh really for

00:07:39.960 this whole half of a generation i think there's been a lot of shake-up happening

00:07:43.440 as the modern world has been revealed for its bankruptcy you get uh it seems to be two different

00:07:50.200 responses and there's spectrums on each response there's the ones that for some reason want to

00:07:56.040 kind of maintain that bankrupt modernity and that's the left and they do it by either just

00:08:02.700 look and that's the left of both sides of the political spectrum by the way the neocons and

00:08:07.720 the liberals and some of the liberals want to go very extreme and they're just like well let's just

00:08:12.140 dive in and let's make it as as bad as we can thinking that somehow it'll get better uh but

00:08:17.960 then there's also the response of saying why don't we try to return back to what we had before

00:08:22.740 but in a way that seeks to guard against what got us here and so looking i think cj brought this up

00:08:28.880 looking for the transcendent again even in our political philosophy not settling for a purely

00:08:35.660 secular mindset in secular matters it can't be like a godless conservative right right so it and

00:08:41.780 this is kind of the whole Christian nationalism conversation that Stephen Wolfe reignited with

00:08:46.160 this book is it's a secular sphere. It's not a holy sphere. Civics are a natural thing,

00:08:52.620 but that doesn't make them inherently holy. But if you remove the transcendent from that secular

00:08:58.720 sphere, and I mean, secular classically, then you'll get something that's, I mean, it really

00:09:04.280 is a Leviathan. It's this beast that is destroying civilization instead of doing what it ought to do,

00:09:10.680 which is building up. And I think you even saw some of the spectrum on the return side of things

00:09:18.560 at the conference, where there's different levels of strong, violent reactions against what's

00:09:26.200 happening. For example, in America, it's easier for us to be softer towards these things because

00:09:33.160 we aren't being uh as violently invaded as like the uk is by the muslims i mean the the uk is 0.53

00:09:40.780 suffering if half of what calvin robinson said was true or aaron edwards who we talked to if half of 0.66

00:09:47.440 what they said was true then they are undergoing a legitimate jihad and they're suffering the 0.99

00:09:52.660 invasion of a muslim horde uh that's killing their people raping their women all these two 0.99

00:09:57.720 and fully replacing them in america we're seeing that but it's not as in our face yet depending 1.00

00:10:03.040 on where you live. And so I think it can be easier for us to have this sense of security,

00:10:07.800 like we still have time. But one thing that I walked away from the conference with was like,

00:10:13.580 no, we need to be more desperate. We need to be more desperate in our fight. We need to be willing

00:10:18.100 to pull less punches. We need to be willing to say the thing even more firmly that the left and

00:10:25.860 that the neocons don't want to hear. Yeah, I think that's a really good point. Dan, one of the things

00:10:30.180 that struck me was sort of, we're in this moment where Trump gets elected. You see some initial

00:10:36.580 victories on the right. I don't think that they've, I think it's like in Alfred's time where

00:10:41.660 there's a victory in the initial melee, right? You have a first fight. There's a little bit of

00:10:49.020 victory on the right. One of the mistakes that could be made is now people, they don't pursue.

00:10:54.860 I wonder if you saw any of that, just kind of the need, especially as Ben mentioned from the

00:10:59.840 guys in the uk like the fight isn't won and so now isn't the time to pull back as though we've

00:11:06.740 secured victory maybe in a battle but the war is is still going on yeah i think i think ben really

00:11:13.580 hit it on the nose when he talked about desperation you know i think that there's something that

00:11:17.400 really victory is a time of testing to to sort out um i guess uh lower quality men from the

00:11:25.580 higher quality men is really what happens when you get victory. We've long said that success is

00:11:34.660 much harder to manage than failure or defeat. Because for example, in business, if your business

00:11:41.800 isn't making money, it's really easy to manage. It's pretty much like, when do we stop? Where

00:11:46.920 success is actually quite difficult to manage. And I think that a lower tier man encounters 1.00

00:11:54.260 these temptations actually in many spheres outside of just political movements or outside

00:12:00.640 of cultural movements and things like that. If you were to take something really simple, say

00:12:05.160 like a household budget or work, you work really hard, you finally get a raise, you get that

00:12:12.360 promotion, you get a bonus. And this is really what separates a lower tier man from a higher

00:12:19.460 tier man, a man of courage that understands desperation and sacrifice and has a long-term

00:12:25.760 vision. The man who is more short-term in his thinking is going to take that raise or that

00:12:32.860 bonus and often like buy something that they've always wanted and goes into debt. And they have

00:12:38.700 the same cycle that actually repeats. They're still continually poor because they didn't know

00:12:44.540 how to manage success. And so they end up shrinking back. Whereas instead of thinking strategically

00:12:50.480 like, Oh, I've got, you know, I'll just keep living the way I did. And I'll just use this

00:12:55.020 money to invest, to buy a business, to, you know, whatever it is to make wise financial moves.

00:12:59.920 That's just a really small snapshot example. Businesses do this all the time. They'll just

00:13:03.940 gut the business and try to milk the cow for all it's worth and never really reinvest in the 0.95

00:13:08.680 business. And then it never really grows and eventually it dies. Well, I think what we're

00:13:12.520 seeing is like, like you said, Eric, we had massive momentum coming into the conservative

00:13:18.180 movement, you know, where all of a sudden, like some of the things that, that is coming from the

00:13:22.700 white house that is being said from the white house would have gotten you removed from X,

00:13:27.500 you know, just a few years ago, they would have canceled you. And so a lot of guys who have been

00:13:32.760 on the front lines and fighting, I, there's probably some exhaustion and battle fatigue,

00:13:37.400 but at the same time people don't know how to manage success because think about our lifetimes

00:13:43.020 right so eric and i were born in the 80s were you born in uh yeah mid 90s 95 95 there you go

00:13:49.600 all we've experienced most of our life is is really defeat or at least fighting a losing battle

00:13:57.360 because even even you know the gop conservatives they were fighting to lose that's what they were 0.83

00:14:04.960 doing. They never really took any ground. They were just trying to figure out how to manage

00:14:08.080 failure and defeat. And so now that things have changed and we are seeing some battles won,

00:14:16.000 I don't think that men understand how to manage success. And so what's happening is there's this

00:14:22.800 strange change of perception, I think, from some guys that we're seeing, especially in our movement

00:14:28.080 in the Christian right, the new Christian right and Christian nationalism,

00:14:32.560 is that this feeling of success, they don't know what to do and they're starting to see

00:14:37.740 radicals emerge. And so it seems like the position that they're taking is shrinking back into more

00:14:44.220 big Eva kind of normie sort of positions in order to not be associated with those

00:14:50.740 radicals on the right. So I think that that's really one of the principles is essentially

00:14:56.680 there is a, you know, snatching defeat from the jaws of victory sort of mentality.

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00:18:21.020 Yeah, this is something I tweeted the other day on that same note. I said, there are many who do

00:18:26.120 not have the stomach or the will for what must be done to win this is what many conservatives have

00:18:32.320 always done and you're seeing this more on the right wing at this moment they will posture right

00:18:37.360 wing but they will act like a centrist so you'll keep you'll you'll see guys who will keep saying

00:18:44.360 things that are like remotely conservative but then you'll also see the the deeds and a lot of

00:18:51.420 it will be very centrist well you're seeing like a magnetic pull towards the center so you have

00:18:56.900 some people from the right that are moving back to the center back left and you also have this

00:19:01.660 interesting dynamic where leftists are seeing the right as victorious now as the overton window is

00:19:08.200 shifted yeah and so you have guys like governor newsom you know that's moving right apparent

00:19:13.880 apparently you know right and because that's they're just putting on a different skin suit

00:19:18.400 Exactly, exactly. So it seems like people are kind of shifting back to this magnetic center, which is now just slightly right of where we were a few years ago.

00:19:28.240 But I love this. So I tweeted that and then Thomas Acord retweeted it with a speech from Henry V, Crispin's Day speech. And he said, he which hath no stomach to this fight, let him depart. His passport shall be made and crowns for convoy put into his purse. We would not die in that man's company that fears his fellowship to die with us.

00:19:50.980 And so I think there's also a cool thing happening on the right where, and that panel was kind of a small snapshot of it, where in many ways you have all the guys on that panel, including Joel, who people have tried to dox, cancel.

00:20:08.380 um we're sort of i said this at the conference it's sort of like the cave of a dulem

00:20:13.200 where everyone who is cast out from saul's regime is now forming a certain kind of alliance

00:20:20.340 and thomas is maybe a good picture of this um you know has sins has repented of them

00:20:26.360 but there were people in our camp who were hellbent on saying you should be canceled forever

00:20:34.080 and it was interesting that was kind of the first time that I got to like sit down and spend a lot

00:20:38.660 of time with Thomas and Ben just I want to get your thoughts but incredibly humble incredibly

00:20:46.380 brilliant knows the western canon almost by heart and had a ton of really valuable insights

00:20:54.080 about this time yeah yeah it I Dan I think you make an interesting point it almost seems like

00:21:01.320 people conflate Newton's laws and assume that they apply across the board, even in unmechanical

00:21:10.800 ways. So like Newton's first law, an object in motion tends to stay in motion. That doesn't

00:21:15.720 seem to be true though, for, for movements of people and ideas where we get this idea that

00:21:21.820 since we've had a kind of victory, we can now go back to the comfort. We can go back to the status

00:21:28.320 quo because we've created some haven or something for our ideas. But that's not true. If the movement,

00:21:36.120 if the idea doesn't keep pushing with the momentum that it has, it'll actually just

00:21:40.740 lose the momentum. It doesn't stay in motion naturally. You have to keep pushing. And I think

00:21:47.060 that it's going to be tempting for us to be comfortable again because we've lost our stomach

00:21:55.040 for discomfort in many ways, but we need to reclaim that. Discomfort is the thing that

00:22:00.500 actually brings about either loss or victory. But one thing that'll happen if you certainly

00:22:06.200 reject discomfort is loss. You will lose if you seek comfort. Now, if you put yourself in the vice

00:22:13.600 and you let it squeeze you and you actually try to push against it, there's a chance of winning.

00:22:18.820 uh to your point about thomas i thought that i mean the dude's brilliant like you know we're

00:22:25.640 talking about ideas of you know fathers setting their sons up for success and what happens when

00:22:31.420 the son is rejected but he nonetheless takes the gifts of will that he inherited from his fathers

00:22:37.900 and makes a return on that anyway and he's bringing up like theseus and orpheus and all

00:22:43.100 these people he's just pulling them out of out of his head uh at a split second and i think that's

00:22:48.420 very important. I think a guy like Thomas, guys like Stephen Wolf, I would hope, you know, more

00:22:53.740 and more, especially as time goes on, guys like us are able to reclaim that ethos that built the

00:22:59.040 West and said the ethos that built the West did not settle for Europe. It didn't settle for the

00:23:07.120 East. I mean, it lost the East because it started settling. No, it pushed further West. It went to 0.96

00:23:12.580 Hesperia. It had manifest destiny. And I think we need to reclaim that idea that our manifest

00:23:17.860 destiny, God has set us up in such a way providentially that not only is the church

00:23:24.060 founded in America, but also can ascend in America. And so we have this great opportunity

00:23:31.300 where we can basically restart manifest destiny over again and say, let's have the mindset of

00:23:36.880 the explorers, the colonizers that were pushing this kind of Pax Western across the world and

00:23:46.160 creating beauty out of chaos. But in order to do that, we can't settle for minor victories here

00:23:52.240 and there. We have to keep pushing and pushing and pushing until the victory is completely won.

00:23:56.620 And even then, you have to do the work of continuing the victory with the next generation,

00:24:01.720 setting people up well, not abandoning your sons when they are more zealous than you

00:24:06.860 about certain things, but fostering the zeal and giving it the tools that it needs to succeed.

00:24:11.940 Yeah. This was something we were talking about in the green room with Thomas is like, how do we, as we, as we're the, you know, younger men at the moment. And so a lot of us like thirties and forties, how do we ensure that we set our sons up well?

00:24:29.740 because this is really something that has happened is that there's been a

00:24:34.360 rift in the generations, you know,

00:24:37.880 and it's particularly with, with older men who are like,

00:24:40.740 I don't want to hand the baton to anyone in the younger generation.

00:24:46.780 So I guess my question, Dan, as you think about that,

00:24:50.200 how do we set our sons up? Well, how do we, you know,

00:24:53.840 this is something I said on the panel.

00:24:56.060 I think we have to be content in realizing we're kind of the tip of the

00:24:59.360 spear generation, meaning you're going to do a lot of the fighting. You're going to be maybe more

00:25:05.220 like David where it's like, and I can hear Matt Chandler, you're not David. But in David's

00:25:10.120 generation, it was all warfare. It was long seasons of being on the run, being an outcast.

00:25:17.360 And really the glory of the kingdom comes to Solomon, not to David. But he still sets his

00:25:23.060 son up well to succeed in, in, in the glory that he built and that he fought for.

00:25:30.040 And so I think for a lot of us, we just have to be content with like, you're going to be

00:25:34.840 hated.

00:25:35.120 We have to keep pressing forward on things like the long house and being against feminism

00:25:40.440 and confronting all the ways.

00:25:42.760 And even in the, I said, in my talk, even in the conservative movement, we still have 0.99

00:25:46.920 feminism. Um, it's just a little slower than leftist feminism, but we still have to address 0.72

00:25:53.980 these things. So yeah, just getting back to the question, how do you set your sons up? Well, 0.99

00:25:58.160 how do we not make the same mistake when we get to 60, 70 and doing what has kind of been done to

00:26:05.580 us? Yeah. I mean, that's a, that's a very big question. I think just some simple things to

00:26:09.460 recognize, uh, with created order is that the scriptures praise young men for their strength

00:26:15.900 and for zeal and old men aren't praised in the same way it's their gray gray hairs and their

00:26:22.100 wisdom yeah and so the issue that we have is a a collision of ways that older men and younger men

00:26:29.720 can sin but talk about older men for a second older men can definitely sin in a way where they

00:26:34.700 they will they have they possess wisdom and experience um and so they're able to see like

00:26:40.960 you can see this in younger boys and teenagers you know they don't have fully developed brains

00:26:46.680 yet they're not that smart but man do they have energy and they have strength and they have zeal

00:26:51.600 you for example you get them uh interested in a hobby or an idea and they make their entire

00:26:58.540 personalities about it and they attack it without rest like they're that's that's just how younger

00:27:04.180 men are wired is that they're strong and they have zeal and so the temptations from the wiser man

00:27:10.480 is to continually just punch down and to try to squash that zeal and say, like, just sit down.

00:27:18.340 You don't understand. You haven't lived as long as I have. When you're my age, you'll you'll get

00:27:23.760 it, you know, and so just completely squash that. But you also have a collision with our with our

00:27:30.120 the feminization of America and Western civilization, especially in the 20th century with

00:27:36.240 with feminism and how it's infiltrated even men in a feminist way of thinking to where there's

00:27:42.280 also now, I think, uh, with grandparents, maybe some of you with that are our age and have a 0.77

00:27:48.800 boomer grandparents of your children. Uh, they, they, one of their favorite phrases is just be

00:27:54.220 careful. You take them to the kids to the playground. It's like, Oh, be careful, be

00:27:57.340 careful, be careful. Like it's just, it's crazy. So you have not only like, Hey, just settle down,

00:28:03.560 but you also have to be careful. Don't take risk. Actually, the best way to succeed at life is to

00:28:09.060 invest in your retirement account, to just work harder and you'll get a better job. You'll be

00:28:15.480 fine. Just keep your head down. Make sure that nobody notices. Just be careful. So you have

00:28:21.300 those two instincts now that are colliding into like this super storm of essentially squashing

00:28:27.740 any youthful zeal or strength, any desire to wage war, uh, and to, to do battle, you know,

00:28:34.760 on the cultural front front or to, um, you know, further the gospel and disciple the nations and

00:28:40.800 things like that. They're just like, well, be careful and, um, you know, just settle down,

00:28:45.180 sit, sit down and settle down. And so one of the things that we have to recognize as we're

00:28:49.580 passing the baton to the next generation and preparing ourselves is that you cannot despise

00:28:55.100 youthful zeal, but you should direct it. That is where you actually get a connection that is

00:29:02.200 glorious in this created order, in this natural order of older men and younger men that God has

00:29:09.500 instructed us in his word, is that the older, wiser man has had a lot of experience. Hopefully

00:29:15.820 he's fought these battles. I don't think a lot of the boomers really fought those sorts of battles, 0.99

00:29:20.980 but um they have had some battles that they fought they should have experience and they 0.90

00:29:25.860 should have wisdom you might be tempted to do this don't do that that's a terrible idea

00:29:29.800 but go this way you know be on guard of this ditch and this ditch and really directing the

00:29:35.020 zeal but not squashing it like men should be zealous well i thought that that was one of the

00:29:41.460 encouragements uh from the conference just in talking to a lot of the attendees was there were

00:29:48.680 guys there who came up to me and were like, Hey, really appreciate the work that you and Ogden are

00:29:53.340 doing. Uh, we need so much more of it. And they were like 65 year old gray haired. Uh, many of

00:29:59.160 them were pastors and we're like, you guys are fighting the fight. We need to fight. Like you're

00:30:03.280 an encouragement, keep it up. Um, yeah. And I mean, I know I just broad brushed everything.

00:30:08.360 Like the boomers are the worst and the young men are the, are the best. And that's absolutely not 1.00

00:30:12.580 true. Like there's a lot of great boomers and there's a lot of not great young men, but, but

00:30:17.820 that's really how things should, should, if we want to pass on the baton, we have to have a vision

00:30:22.660 by the way that transcends our own life. And that's compelling enough, a positive vision for

00:30:26.420 the future that we can pass on to the next generation and say, here's the target. I couldn't

00:30:31.780 reach it. I don't know if you'll be able to reach it either, but you should pass this on to your

00:30:35.680 generations because this should transcend your life as well. This is a multi-generational task

00:30:41.260 to a thousand generations is the work of building. And you just need to stand on my shoulders and

00:30:46.560 just keep going you know and that's that's really what what we need to do if we're going to pass on

00:30:50.960 the baton and continue to work not just lose it just like wealth is often lost you get rags to

00:30:56.580 riches stories you know where some guy he he didn't have anything and he becomes really wealthy

00:31:01.940 and successful and his kids lose it you know it's it's lost because he actually didn't train his

00:31:07.640 children and he was desperate he understood desperation of the moment of poverty of working

00:31:13.440 hard and how to manage success. And for some reason did not communicate that to the second

00:31:18.000 generation because they didn't experience the same desperation. They didn't see the hardships.

00:31:22.860 They didn't understand how to manage their wealth and the business, you know, and so you look at the

00:31:27.900 same thing within a cultural inheritance. I think there is a disassociation with the boomer

00:31:33.620 generation because so much of the prosperity in Western civilization was culminated. It was like 0.96

00:31:39.160 a pinnacle at the time of the boomer generation. And so now you have a really a desperation

00:31:44.100 in the millennials and the zoomers where they did not experience the same blessings as the, 0.98

00:31:50.480 their boomer parents. And so we are increasing in desperation. I think that's why you see a lot 0.94

00:31:55.960 more zeal in the, in Gen Z is because they're looking at the future and they have very little 0.54

00:32:01.040 hope. Uh, I know we've talked about it before, but there is a survey that was done and it was 0.59

00:32:07.080 asking zoomers, uh, the similar questions that asked other generations. But one of the questions

00:32:11.460 was, um, is there anything that you can do to improve your, uh, your future? And overwhelmingly

00:32:20.960 the zoomers said, no, there's absolutely nothing I can do to improve my future. And so there is,

00:32:26.800 there is desperation, uh, amongst, uh, the zoomers and even younger millennials see that a lot. And 0.98

00:32:33.220 And so I think we're at a time now where the building can really begin.

00:32:37.720 I know that was really rambly, but it all culminates in this idea like just don't squash

00:32:42.180 zeal and don't also don't impose your experience and your time of blessing on someone who has

00:32:51.460 no chance and opportunity to experience that.

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00:35:32.980 directly at rob at livingstones.studio for a free consultation. I'm trying to think too, like the,

00:35:43.300 it seems like one of the temptations for older men is to pearl clutch and see the zeal of young,

00:35:50.740 especially if it's a competent zeal like if it's a young man who's not just stoked but he's also

00:35:57.240 directed and he is really good at this thing that he's set himself in um the older men if they don't

00:36:04.440 have that if they're thinking selfishly um and they don't they don't know the times enough to

00:36:10.300 maintain that compelling vision for the future and see its adaptations for the next generation

00:36:15.460 as a good thing, as a growth, then they'll see the young men as a threat and they'll start to be 0.93

00:36:21.120 really hypocritical. And so they'll start to emphasize, like, be careful. You know, I know

00:36:26.880 that you talked about this a lot, like, hey, just make sure you're being very careful. Make sure

00:36:31.000 you're not doing the wrong thing. And that seems to me like the height of hypocrisy because anyone

00:36:38.540 that pushed the needle any length in their lifetime and their generation did so by taking

00:36:45.180 risk. And the risk can vary. It can be great risk or it can be small risk, but it's risk

00:36:50.360 nonetheless. And so to then turn around after you've inherited something great and maybe have

00:36:56.780 made some kind of return on it and to just emphasize, and I'm not talking about thoughtfulness,

00:37:01.940 thoughtfulness is a virtue, but like safetyism and safety first. And well, just make sure you're

00:37:08.060 not taking too much risk on no that that is hypocritical and i think sometimes i don't want

00:37:14.320 to paint with too broad a brush but i think sometimes uh that can be even more tempting to do

00:37:19.600 when the older men are seeing the younger men as a threat and and not as a friend and as a tool

00:37:26.260 to help them continue the work that they began yeah i think uh even doug wilson i was watching

00:37:32.160 a reel recently that was really good but he was talking it was older but he was talking about the

00:37:37.260 men who get things done in society, in their essence, they have to be disruptors. Meaning

00:37:43.300 you're the disruptor of the status quo. You're the guy who challenges kind of the order of the day.

00:37:50.160 And so that is going to get you hated. It's going to draw heat to your position.

00:37:56.020 And as Ben said, I think it was easy for a lot of those guys to be the disruptor,

00:38:00.680 but then when they see the younger generation also disrupting in their own way,

00:38:04.180 um it's you know it can frustrate them one thing that thomas brought up and he he actually uh he

00:38:11.960 tweeted this as well but he said there's relevant lessons from a historical trope he said this is

00:38:18.020 a major theme in the western canon a young hero's rise threatens an old king who sends young hero

00:38:25.120 on an impossible quest hoping that he will die but young hero triumphs he wins glory he overtakes

00:38:31.860 kingdom. Examples would be Zeus, Jason, and he's referencing especially Jason and the Argonauts.

00:38:38.520 Here, Perseus, Bellerophon, Moses, David, Jesus, the boomers. Hercules. Hercules. He said, 0.96

00:38:46.660 old kings often won't let go of power, have no transition plan, resent, fear the youth. Old men

00:38:52.740 sometimes encourage young men to do things that appeal to young male ambition, but are actually 0.97

00:38:57.000 calculated to destroy the young man and keep the old men in power. Young men banding together can

00:39:02.300 achieve a great deal. Jason and the Argonauts did. They defied the Boomer King's expectations.

00:39:08.040 The old sometimes forget what youth, optimism, comradeship, and zeal can do. So I think it's

00:39:14.300 also useful to go back and look at history and say that this is a common theme. And so we can

00:39:20.200 learn a lot from that. One of Thomas's questions to us was, how do we not do that for ourselves,

00:39:26.680 for the next generation? And one of my answers was, I think it's a lot of the work that we do

00:39:32.440 here in Ogden with the Guild, which is our leadership training program. It means that

00:39:37.940 as older men, a little older than the 20-year-olds, that we're taking them and we're looking at a 20

00:39:44.340 to 25-year-old and we're saying, I'm going to train you. I'm going to aim you. I'm going to

00:39:50.340 be in your corner. I'm not going to stamp out your zeal, but as Dan said, I'm going to direct it.

00:39:55.500 And then really, as we've been building out this 25-year plan for the church, we've also said,

00:40:02.780 okay, I'm 40, Dan, you're 40. 25 years will be 65. At that point, you should have passed the

00:40:09.520 baton. That means that you have a whole bench of other elders, deacons, and churchmen that you're

00:40:18.300 now have called. They're not on the bench anymore. You've called them forward, and they're going to

00:40:23.840 be the ones leading. And you do. It's not that I'm going to stop working, Lord willing, at 65,

00:40:29.600 but it's going to be more of a, you're not the guy in the captain's chair anymore.

00:40:35.640 You maybe are giving counsel, and you're encouraging the young men in the work.

00:40:39.820 You're providing the gray-haired wisdom. But I'm already coming to that realization, like,

00:40:46.560 we've been given a cool thing here in Ogden. We have a leadership position, but it won't always

00:40:52.080 be that way. And there will come a time when we have to pass that on. So Ben, I know you've done

00:40:57.200 a lot of work with the guild. It seems like so far it's gone really well in the last couple of

00:41:02.600 years that we've been doing this. Talk about for a young guy, when somebody takes interest in you

00:41:09.320 as an older man, gets in your corner and says, I want to help you win glory. Not safety first,

00:41:16.280 not be careful, but I want to help you win glory. I want to help you build a productive household.

00:41:23.660 I want your marriage to be great. I want you to be a pillar in this community.

00:41:28.400 What does that do for a young guy? Yeah, it's funny hearing you say that

00:41:32.700 made me think of, I think, a good point. And I'll say it now and then kind of do the legwork. But

00:41:39.300 it's not just that you want to direct the zeal of the young man. You actually want to increase

00:41:45.100 the zeal of the young man yeah you want to you want to multiply it by directing it so i work a

00:41:52.660 lot with the guild and and it's really great i mean i think that we see that um you know ethan

00:41:59.060 sin and i work on the guild and we both have different very different skill sets that i think

00:42:04.960 complement each other well for that setting so i do think that we've seen young men at refuge church

00:42:10.900 be invited in and they're already bought into the mission they already love what the lord is doing

00:42:17.780 but we're saying we actually want you to love it more we want you to love it more in these key ways

00:42:24.000 so that you can be the biggest help you know the biggest fruit tree that you can be in the church

00:42:30.480 but i also have the benefit of having received that i think like from from both of you guys and

00:42:36.120 then from brian especially really like taking me kind of under the wing and and over the past six

00:42:42.800 years and and especially the past five saying like okay let but but let's work on these things

00:42:48.940 let's work on these things let's get you more directed more focused more mature more honed

00:42:53.500 all this stuff and and giving you real hacks yeah yeah giving me real and that was part of it is

00:42:58.560 giving me the real hacks and then uh training the kind of training the humility in the young man

00:43:04.580 to review the hacks. Say like, you really sucked at that, or you did really, really good at that,

00:43:10.940 more of this, and you can work on this for next time. And what that does to what it did to me,

00:43:16.900 and so I'm assuming what that would do to any kind of red-blooded young man, is it lets me see 0.64

00:43:22.700 that the older man is in my corner. This wiser guy is actually for me in very tangible ways.

00:43:28.340 And so over the course of the past five years, my own zeal, especially for the pastorate,

00:43:35.900 has only increased. I'm more zealous now about being a minister than I was five years ago,

00:43:44.120 or even two years ago. And I think that that can be attributed to the faithful work of the older

00:43:49.460 men who are seeking to direct the zeal, but in directing the zeal to say, so now be more zealous.

00:43:56.620 Well, it's really interesting because I remember an experience at a church when I was younger.

00:44:03.460 I think I was like 23.

00:44:05.320 I was going to seminary, going to a church, and I remember going to the pastor, and I said,

00:44:10.320 hey, my aspiration is to be a minister one day and to pastor a church and really to be

00:44:17.320 involved in some sort of Christian media.

00:44:21.120 And I said, would you be interested in discipling?

00:44:26.420 And I never forget that moment.

00:44:28.280 The pastor said, no, no, I'm not interested.

00:44:31.000 We don't really do that here.

00:44:33.740 And he said, if you want to start something, you should go start your own thing.

00:44:39.040 And, you know, we remained in the church, had good relationships with people there.

00:44:43.180 But that is kind of the situation a lot of young men face, is that if you want anything,

00:44:48.600 you have to go do it all by yourself.

00:44:50.340 Now, I look back at that providentially, and I think God was also honing and shaping me through that, because it's going to take a special kind of fortitude in this generation to get stuff done.

00:45:02.300 Oh, I thought you were going to say a special kind of fortitude to disciple a young Eric Kahn.

00:45:06.640 Well, that too.

00:45:09.200 Well, and that is part of it.

00:45:10.700 Like, I know, like, I look back, and I was like, I was a handful.

00:45:13.460 I still am.

00:45:14.840 But it takes a leadership quality and guys to not be afraid of that,

00:45:19.680 but to say, hey, this guy could be really useful.

00:45:22.340 So Andrew Isker and I were talking about this.

00:45:24.240 We both experienced in many different situations, denomination, whatever,

00:45:30.340 business, work, church, whatever, where, yeah,

00:45:34.580 the guys just weren't willing to call you up into something,

00:45:37.780 and so you went and you started your own.

00:45:40.880 Now, again, that's been a tremendous blessing here in Ogden.

00:45:44.060 But I think that was the difference is I came here and we had talked and I kind of shared some of my vision with Dan and Brian.

00:45:53.080 They took it, they honed it, they made it better.

00:45:56.920 And they said, let's do the work together.

00:45:59.560 That was the first time in my life that somebody had really done that.

00:46:03.780 And you take a guy like that and it can be such a rocket ship of productivity and good things.

00:46:11.460 But Dan, as you think about this, we do definitely with the podcast, we get a lot of people seeking to come here.

00:46:21.060 And some of them, when you first talk to them, it's a little scary because you're like, wow, like this is like a wild Mustang.

00:46:29.820 Right?

00:46:30.240 Like you could do a lot of good things.

00:46:31.560 You have a lot of strength, but you could do a lot of damage too.

00:46:34.860 So how do you, as pastorally, you've done this a lot with guys.

00:46:38.440 how do you look at that and not be afraid and push it away but instead take that young guy and say

00:46:45.560 like we can work with this yeah yeah i think there's there's a couple of different answers

00:46:50.760 that i'm thinking through but one i think that is probably just the most powerful is the weight of

00:46:57.880 the culture and of the tribe because that's really what you're kind of talking about when

00:47:02.160 yeah when you moved here was was like you were joining a tribe you know we formed a tribe we

00:47:07.620 had a shared vision for the future we had each other's backs and we're going to build together

00:47:12.580 and the thing is when people are when people move here they really have to ingrain themselves in the

00:47:18.860 culture they and that's really a big protection because with any culture there are norms right

00:47:25.860 and and if you fall outside of those norms people people will call you out and and and hopefully a

00:47:32.120 lot of the norms i think that this is the case are righteous norms like ordering your household

00:47:37.640 well for example or like you know if a wife starts fussing about her husband to a group of their

00:47:43.760 ladies they'll they'll stop and say like maybe you should talk to your husband about that you know

00:47:49.360 why are you talking to me about that you know and likewise if a husband is fussing about his wife 0.85

00:47:53.740 the guys will get say like you're gay stop doing that you're actually in charge maybe you should 0.91

00:47:58.380 do something about that. Yeah. So some of those things are, I think that's really the most 0.98

00:48:04.780 powerful aspect of our culture. And then there's obviously like the personal discipleship and

00:48:11.820 counseling from pastors and things like that. But that's all, none of this is an independent work.

00:48:18.340 The weight of the culture and the standards of the culture and the inculturation are really the

00:48:24.440 things that are protecting a people. This is what made countries great though. This is what made

00:48:30.080 the paideia of Rome so powerful. It's like you need to be, if you're going to be a Roman,

00:48:35.100 you have to follow the paideia of Rome. You need to think like a Roman, participate in politics 0.69

00:48:40.120 like a Roman, the way that you do your everyday life, your education, everything was distinctly

00:48:45.800 Roman. There's a definite paideia to Ogden. Yes. There's a paideia to Ogden. Exactly. Like

00:48:51.320 Christian education is huge, you know, homeschooling or at St.

00:48:54.720 Brendan's household order, you know, the, uh, an emphasis on the Lord's day,

00:48:59.400 worship, uh, family, family worship, you know, things, things like that, uh,

00:49:04.040 singing the Psalms, you know, all of those things are, are very powerful and

00:49:08.360 potent aspects of the culture and the enculturation of like a, an Ogden person,

00:49:13.720 you know?

00:49:14.420 So I think that that's really one of the things that doesn't, I mean, I'm not

00:49:17.980 scared, you know, when somebody comes in, the things that I'm looking for,

00:49:21.300 like is this person a wolf you know is this person seeking to um take away some of my people

00:49:27.960 you know so that that's something that i'm more on guard for than just like wow you're you're

00:49:32.560 really excited you know there seems to be a lot of work there you're rough around the edges because

00:49:37.160 you got to think too for the average person that's moving somewhere for a church they're not coming

00:49:41.960 from like a rooted position a stable position there's a reason that they're moving and it's

00:49:48.020 not just because they listen to the King's hall podcast, you know, it's probably an association

00:49:52.740 with like, well, I can't find a good church near me. My family, you know, my extended family is

00:49:57.900 just a mess and my job really kind of stinks or some, some ratio of those, those different,

00:50:04.680 um, those different things. So, um, when they're coming here, they're not coming from a stable

00:50:10.420 position, but they're coming hopefully into stability and rootedness here.

00:50:15.280 Well, it's interesting, too. So I was talking on The Longhouse. Andrew Isker had a lot of

00:50:20.520 complimentary things in his talk, I think, just that kind of complimented this idea of The Long

00:50:26.180 House. He's talked about it in The Boniface Option, which will be republished through New

00:50:32.280 Christendom Press soon. But kind of the idea is we have this huge opportunity with young right-wing

00:50:39.020 men. But if you have a longhouse, so if your paideia is into the longhouse, and I was trying

00:50:48.020 to show that this is largely what the evangelical church, even the conservative reform church is

00:50:54.520 like, it's a longhouse, meaning it's feminine-coded, feminine behavior norms, and particularly 0.56

00:51:00.400 hysterical women. The worst kind of women are ruling, and that includes women of both sexes. 1.00

00:51:06.440 uh why well i'll start with ben but i want to get dan's take too why is it so detrimental if you're 1.00

00:51:14.660 let's start with the church if your church is a long house if the real control is maybe you have

00:51:23.140 a session maybe you have elder rule that's men but then like the elders wives control everything

00:51:29.880 Why is that detrimental for young men? 0.90

00:51:32.540 Yeah, I think it's because a man's work is meant to be going into disorder and bringing order. 0.55

00:51:40.820 Not what women do, which is going into the order that men made, that their husband or their father made, and bringing beauty, beautifying it. 0.65

00:51:49.640 So when you're ruled by feminine sensibilities, whether that's explicit in the form of, you know, a pastrix or something like that, or implicit in the form of elders on a session that are, you know, emotionally manipulated by their wives, or their decisions have to be kind of, you know, run by their wives to see if it's acceptable. 0.54

00:52:12.120 um you're you're gonna be trying to do the work of ordering with a feminine sensibility that's 0.70

00:52:18.640 actually put more towards beautification and beautification requires order you can't invert

00:52:24.880 the process and when you try to you'll get a culture that's founded on you know as as rigney

00:52:31.300 might say untethered empathy where everyone that might be on the fringe is actually put into the

00:52:38.300 center and they are made the most important voices. Instead of having the ordered structure

00:52:45.460 of the people in the center being the ones that are actually forming the paideia of the culture

00:52:50.200 and then the people on the fringes are being invited, constantly invited in. But the invitation

00:52:56.180 comes with a charge to conform. Okay, so you're on the fringe, you want to be further in, great,

00:53:01.960 we want you further in. You have to conform in these ways. I think that when you're ruled by

00:53:07.340 the longhouse or when you're in a longhouse paidea, that gets inverted. And instead, the people

00:53:12.560 on the fringe are assumed to be right just by the mere fact that they're on the fringe. So they're

00:53:16.940 assumed to have a voice or a perspective or trauma or whatever that's worth listening to.

00:53:22.480 They're put in the middle. And then everyone that should be in the middle is forced to cater to

00:53:27.200 their sensibilities. Yeah. Ed Friedman talks about this. It's essentially, instead of having

00:53:31.440 true leadership, like strong, well-defined leadership, what you have is the squeakiest

00:53:37.880 wheels are controlling everything. We've seen this with wokeness. It's like the fussiest,

00:53:43.800 most hysterical women get to control everyone else's speech, for example. You also have, 1.00

00:53:50.240 I think, what is just untenable for young men is you have an environment in which the way that you

00:53:57.400 punish nonconformity is by canceling or destroying the reputation of someone, right? So it's a

00:54:05.620 gossip culture. It's a backbiting culture. Instead of going directly to people and saying like, 1.00

00:54:10.860 hey, I have this problem. Let's work it out. Let's wrestle with our ideas. That would be

00:54:14.820 very masculine. What you have instead is, well, I don't like what Dan said, so I'm going to go

00:54:20.000 to five other people and destroy his reputation so that he's essentially ostracized from this

00:54:27.020 long house. Man, Ben, I knew we were handsome, but I didn't know we were that handsome until I saw

00:54:36.140 our recent Haunted Cosmos thumbnails. Yeah, your skin looks so velvety smooth. I mean, it's

00:54:42.520 unbelievable. Chris at New Dominion Design Company did an absolutely fantastic job, not only on those

00:54:48.060 thumbnails, but on our recent book cover as well. Yeah, exactly. And if you need some design work

00:54:52.820 from Chris, you should go to new dominion design code.com, get started there and he'll serve you

00:54:57.960 right, man. He will make you look 50% as handsome as Ben guaranteed. All right, men time to step up

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00:56:39.780 i'll say just real quick too like the the dynamic that i just talked about the reason that it 1.00

00:56:46.560 doesn't happen in the home where the woman is like managing the home and she's given the you 0.99

00:56:53.140 know she's given derived authority from her husband to rule over the children and to order 1.00

00:56:57.520 the affairs of the household economy um you know as she's directed by her husband the reason that 1.00

00:57:02.640 that works is because she's directed by her husband and i think that most godly women will 1.00

00:57:09.180 I know that this would be true for my mom. I know that it's true for probably many mothers in the

00:57:14.240 church, is one of the hardest things that they have to do in life is let their husband turn

00:57:21.000 their sons especially into men. So the young boy that grew up grabbing onto mom's apron while

00:57:28.260 she's dancing around the kitchen doing her thing, and they form this incredible bond between mother

00:57:34.200 and son. One of the hardest things for a mother to do is to watch that son that she rightfully

00:57:40.580 brought into this beautiful realm of the home and nurtured and tried to make feel safe and loved

00:57:47.440 and secure and all these things. She was only able to do that because her husband made the home

00:57:52.380 safe and secure and ordered so much that she could beautify it. But that boy has to go out

00:57:58.180 into the disorder. He has to grow up and become a man. And so the father then, or other men,

00:58:04.200 as mentors, have to teach him what it looks like to take order where there's chaos. And that

00:58:10.480 includes pain, suffering, trial, loss, all of these hugely difficult things. And it really

00:58:18.420 does become hard for a mother to watch a son go through that. So if you then take that and then

00:58:25.260 right at large, you could say that if the feminine sensibility to keep her son, or the feminine

00:58:31.540 temptation, I'd say to keep her son from going through that. If you write that large in a

00:58:36.760 culture of a church or broader society, you'll get a bunch of weak men that don't have chests

00:58:44.880 and therefore can't take order where there's disorder. And so now when the Muslim whore 1.00

00:58:50.180 does invade, the men don't know what to do. They've only been trained by the feminine sensibility to 1.00

00:58:55.500 look for comfort and safety. And so they don't know that you can't beautify chaos. You have to 0.88

00:59:00.500 order it first. Yeah, it's such a great point. I remember reading this in Ann Douglas,

00:59:04.440 The Feminization of American Culture. She was talking about the 1800s, but she said,

00:59:09.780 especially with the Unitarian movement, which kind of invaded everything,

00:59:14.920 churches became predominantly female. She even says, as patriarchal Calvinism died out,

00:59:23.120 that the feminine sensibilities took over the church. And one of the interesting things was,

00:59:28.080 She said that because the church was all female, the people who were chosen for pastors were largely sickly indoor boys who stayed with mom all the time because they knew how to, you know, speak to the feminine sensibility. 0.58

00:59:45.920 Yeah, manipulation. 0.84

00:59:47.460 So it's really interesting. 0.78

00:59:48.800 And then you look at the church and it's like, well, most of the people in the pews today are women. 0.54

00:59:53.300 it makes sense why the gospel coalition christianity today are largely feminine coded

00:59:59.380 right it's leftist men and liberal women are kind of their audience um dan i want to ask you that

01:00:06.140 kind of the same question why for a young man is it so difficult it may be even impossible like

01:00:12.680 he's just not going to want to be in the long house yeah i think if you just look at sunday

01:00:17.300 worship um and the patterns of a long housed church on uh in their liturgy on lord's day

01:00:25.220 worship often you'll get music that's that's quite uh homoerotic and and feminine in nature 0.89

01:00:33.200 that's really discouraging whereas we we actually in in western civilization have a history of war

01:00:39.060 songs like of singing into battle and like the glories of masculine singing and those great

01:00:46.360 great songs yeah the psalms are psalms of largely warfare yeah exactly and so instead of we've made

01:00:53.600 those even we've uh essentially um castrated the music that we sing to our to one another and to

01:01:03.560 the lord and and and now it's it's it's largely feminine coded and so it's disgusting you get 0.73

01:01:10.480 there if you're a young man you've got you know red-blooded man and now you're singing something 0.52

01:01:15.140 about jesus kissing people and and all that and you're like oh ah yuck i don't i don't really like

01:01:21.880 that um then you get to the preaching of the word and it's it's very squishy especially in the

01:01:27.900 application section where it ends up landing and like you just need more quiet time yeah exactly

01:01:35.280 it's therapeutic instead of direct application like so therefore you must you know repent of

01:01:42.040 these specific sins. Go out and build this. You need to do your duties. You know, it's more like

01:01:48.580 marching orders in a lot of way. I don't want to say like the church itself is militant, like an

01:01:53.780 army, but there is a lot of army and military type language in the scriptures. And as far as

01:02:00.740 like our marching orders go, to go and really subdue the nations and teach them all that Christ

01:02:06.700 is commanded. It's interesting you say that. There's actually a historical term, the church

01:02:12.080 militant, which is kind of interesting. But I was talking with one of the ladies after church

01:02:17.160 a couple of weeks ago, and it was funny because they're, you know, within the last year become

01:02:23.380 members. And she said something really interesting. She said, you know, you go to all these churches

01:02:28.720 that we've been to in the past, you know, your big box evangelical churches. And it's like this,

01:02:34.300 the pastors are always like soft. It's like a very therapeutic, like, you know, Brian's talked

01:02:41.260 about it, like the yearning with you. I just yearn that you would know Christ and that he

01:02:48.140 would come into your heart and make his home. And there would be warmth and flowers and cookies

01:02:54.540 with sprinkles. And there's like this whole vibe to it. And she said, I feel like when our pastors

01:03:00.860 get up and give a confession, a charge in benediction or preach. She said, I feel like

01:03:06.280 a general is calling us to war. And she said, I just want to thank you. That's so refreshing.

01:03:12.340 And so I think what's also lost is that godly women want that too. They were in their natures, 0.50

01:03:20.360 they were fitted for that. You want strong masculine leadership. It's not soft and effeminate. 0.99

01:03:26.540 come back with your shield or on it. Yeah. Sort of. Yeah. Yeah. That's great. Yeah. So I think

01:03:32.340 that that's really Sunday worship is just a small encapsulation of, of where, you know,

01:03:39.280 the long house has dominated because I mean, we even, we've had people in the past where you have

01:03:46.100 direct application and it's harsh, it's hard to hear. And you, you have certain types of men that

01:03:53.320 like that crushed me and I'm going to rise to the challenge. I'm going to repent and I'm going to

01:03:58.780 walk in faith. That's what I'm going to do. But then you have the people that have been so long

01:04:03.480 housed that, that they're like, man, that was really hard. I'm afraid someone else might be

01:04:08.120 offended at that. What did you think about that person? How did it make them feel? It's like

01:04:13.740 preaching the word of God. Do you think I care how it makes you feel? It doesn't make me feel

01:04:18.480 great all the time makes me actually feel like a pile of garbage you know but I actually saw this

01:04:23.720 the other day it was uh he got fired probably because the long house but uh Nuggets basketball

01:04:29.240 coach and uh it was funny because he was like our our players are lazy they're entitled this

01:04:35.180 generation of players is awful they get paid millions of dollars they don't want to put in

01:04:39.380 the work and one of the female reporter and he said I delivered that message to the players after 0.58

01:04:44.200 the game absolutely pathetic effort and a female reporter said well how do you think that made the

01:04:50.380 players feel and mike malone he goes i don't really care how it made them feel they get paid 0.59

01:04:56.080 to do a job it was like that is the longhouse mentality of like well and you know when you're

01:05:02.800 a three-year-old in your mom's kitchen it's right and good that she has this nurturing yeah you know

01:05:08.620 environment but when you're a grown man getting paid millions of dollars uh it's less a good

01:05:15.640 thing i do want to ask you guys kind of as we wrap up here um it seems like one of the big

01:05:22.100 opportunities is on the right uh with young men isker had something to say in his talk which i

01:05:28.580 thought was really interesting on this front he was saying like for a lot of the like purple

01:05:32.540 hard leftists, like the message is closed off. Like they don't want to hear it. And I'm not

01:05:38.560 saying that we don't evangelize everyone, but certainly you look for where will the seed

01:05:44.600 take root? Like where's fertile ground? Um, guys on the right, um, they, they maybe have some rough

01:05:51.980 edges, but largely they're like, yeah, I don't think that we should cut the genitalia off 0.95

01:05:56.560 children. The rising female population of single woke females is detrimental to society. It seems 1.00

01:06:05.120 like men, even Matt Walsh this week saying like, yeah, ladies, newsflash, men don't want another

01:06:13.000 man to marry. They don't want a boss babe. They want someone who's going to raise their children

01:06:18.140 and keep home um so as you think about how to how to minister how to reach the right

01:06:25.400 which by the way is something the evangelical church was never interested in doing um we'll

01:06:32.560 start with ben but what sorts of things uh do you think are important for us to think through and

01:06:37.360 like how do we reach them certainly not by longhousing them yeah yeah not by longhousing 0.89

01:06:43.020 and long housing includes like the number of public facing women should be next to zero 1.00

01:06:50.160 you know i know i say that and we have bright hearth and lexi but like bright hearth is 80

01:06:55.600 brian talking and lexi giving some thoughts as well but always directed by her husband 1.00

01:07:01.200 right like the seriously what women need is not just more ladies that have these massive public 1.00

01:07:09.120 platforms where they engage in pugilism with men in order to make them see what it looks like to 1.00

01:07:15.120 be a woman. This is what Megyn Kelly is totally missing in that stupid tweet where she was talking 1.00

01:07:19.220 about like, oh, we have a huge dearth of conservative women, but like, do they not have 1.00

01:07:24.760 great role models? I mean, look at all these conservative boss babes. A godly woman doesn't 1.00

01:07:30.500 want that. Like a good woman doesn't want to look at a boss babe and think that she must have really 1.00

01:07:35.980 good advice because look at all that she's accomplished in the outside world. No, a godly 0.94

01:07:40.360 woman wants to look at a Titus II type woman, who I believe Lexi is, and say, look at how she's 1.00

01:07:46.180 ordered her home. Look at how she respects her husband. Look at how she loves and nurtures her 1.00

01:07:50.380 children and sets everything up so that this place of rest in the home can actually be that,

01:07:57.300 a place of rest for all of her people. That's what more women want, but they're only going to get that 1.00

01:08:02.240 in good churches. You're not going to get that on a podcast, at least not enough to actually 1.00

01:08:07.900 mentor you one-on-one. You're certainly not going to get that from Fox News or any talking head

01:08:14.280 lady on Gab or anything like that. You're only going to get that in churches. But I'll say one

01:08:18.920 other thing too. I think that it's possible to create a longhouse paideia even without having

01:08:26.260 a lot of women in explicit or implicit leadership. And the way that I think that can happen is when 0.90

01:08:33.660 you get, again, usually the older class of man who is too lazy or too tired, one of the two,

01:08:43.100 to look at a young man who's a woe guy, who's like, hey, we need to direct this zeal. You're

01:08:49.960 very zealous. We need to do the work of directing it. And the old tired man will say like, yeah,

01:08:56.260 I'm not interested, not interested in doing that. Instead, I'd rather have the yes man,

01:09:00.600 the giddy up guy who's quiet, lazy, not really zealous about anything, pretty apathetic and who

01:09:07.000 you have to just, you know, push tooth and nail to get anything done worth doing. That's really

01:09:12.280 attractive to the older generation of man who doesn't want to do any of the pushing or directing.

01:09:17.680 And that will create the longhouse. It will. So when, when you hear older men say,

01:09:23.460 hey we're really looking for zealous guys we're really looking for whoa guys not giddy up guys

01:09:28.600 they are most of the time lying because they've never actually had to do that and i think like

01:09:35.020 from my experience again seeing the seeing the the older men at refuge that's been the exception

01:09:40.020 not the rule like the the guys here are more than happy to look at young up-and-coming guys like

01:09:46.360 your own son you know benjamin and he he's a zealous guy he's a whoa guy at times but everyone

01:09:52.840 is stoked about that. And we're stoked to put the work in to say, yeah, dude, this is awesome.

01:09:58.240 Like actually become more zealous, but become more zealous in this direction. And then when

01:10:03.880 you've won the heart, then it, you know, the work kind of starts to gain momentum and it doesn't do

01:10:08.760 itself, but it does compliment itself. So I think a warning maybe to listeners, if you're in a church

01:10:16.840 or a job, whatever, where functionally what the men who you look up to want is a yes man

01:10:24.780 or a giddy up guy, just an apathetic guy. It doesn't matter what they say. It doesn't matter.

01:10:30.720 If that's what they want functionally, then you're in a place on borrowed time. It will be a long

01:10:36.700 house. Maybe not in your generation, but someday it will be. If that marks the leadership and

01:10:43.300 and unwillingness to actually put the work in to shepherding the zealous young man,

01:10:50.400 then it will become a longhouse eventually, unless something radical changes.

01:10:54.900 Yeah. I mean, that's one of the, I forget the law, it'll come to me, but any institution that

01:11:00.120 is not explicitly right-wing will become left-wing, right? So you can apply that to this as well.

01:11:07.940 um dan as you think about that question um any thoughts kind of yeah where would you yeah i think

01:11:14.840 the fields are white for the harvest on the right and the the reason somebody brought this up at the 1.00

01:11:19.700 conference so the challenge the real challenge why why is the pink-haired feminists like why 0.99

01:11:25.340 why are they so it's not just that they're indifferent towards the gospel and towards 0.92

01:11:30.700 christianity they they hate it like they hate it well what is what is going on there well i i think

01:11:38.700 there's a sense in which god has given them over you know a lot of the leftists but they also deny

01:11:44.120 nature it's not just that they deny the gospel they actually despise natural law whereas the

01:11:52.020 people on the right they recognize natural order that you know when you said it like you shouldn't

01:11:58.700 cut the genitalia off of children like that's obvious to them they understand nature or that

01:12:04.940 you know a man can't like give birth to a child and nurse it yeah they're not out of their minds 0.98

01:12:09.940 where people on the left they have tried to distort even nature that clearly displays the

01:12:15.680 glory of god and the knowledge of god and they're they're in order to to really uh successfully

01:12:21.540 disciple the left you have to convert them to reality before you can convert them to the

01:12:28.340 supernatural you know there's actually like christ exorcisms that need to be done on the

01:12:33.500 yeah yeah it really is a demoniac death cult they hate everything not only about god but everything

01:12:40.260 that god made yeah and so so people on the right they understand uh you know uh that there is a

01:12:47.280 real morality universal morality you know they understand that there are laws of nature things

01:12:52.760 that ought not to be done and things that one should do in order to love their neighbor you

01:12:58.360 know they have similar categories to where it is fertile soil but people have historically hated

01:13:06.140 christians have hated people on the right they've hated them on the right because they're they're a

01:13:11.540 lot of the guys on the right they are uh zealous they're rough around the edges they have this

01:13:18.240 sense in where they're like i don't really care what anybody thinks about me it's kind of like

01:13:22.420 a cultural thing, you know, whereas the left is so concerned with perception, so long housed,

01:13:27.840 it's always indirect and, um, you know, subversive and manipulative. Whereas your standard, like,

01:13:36.320 you know, blue collar guy on the right, he, he just notices reality. Um, a lot of those guys

01:13:42.200 are pretty good guys, just generally speaking, you know, and, and they need to repent and believe

01:13:47.580 in the gospel and and to uh you know have new new birth and everything like that but but just

01:13:53.640 generally humanly speaking i mean they're they're like pretty average you know like good people

01:13:59.880 and i feel like they're also willing to hear the hard truths yeah because i think as we were

01:14:06.580 talking about earlier there's this uh misplaced move that people i think right now are making

01:14:11.380 where it's like we kind of won with right principles and so now we're going to shrink

01:14:16.620 back and we're going to start softening the message so that we get positions of favor and

01:14:20.180 power. But actually, I think where you win and where we've won in Ogden is saying to that guy

01:14:26.920 in the right wing, yes, you're right. And like Nancy Mace is right for not wanting men to go

01:14:35.600 in women's bathrooms. But then we take it a step further and we say, but let's apply that principle 1.00

01:14:40.420 to Nancy's early life when she forced her way into the Citadel, which was a male only space.

01:14:46.620 She is committing the same error that she claims to be against when she goes to the prayer breakfast and jokes about how she was fornicating right before she got there.

01:14:57.560 Like, I think one thing we have to do as Christians is not soften the message to win that guy or gal, but we have to go harder.

01:15:07.360 Yeah, absolutely. 0.89

01:15:08.200 Yeah.

01:15:08.460 Yeah.

01:15:08.680 When they're noticing something about the left and how insane they are, they're like, oh, yeah, that's because it's a demon death cult and they're worshiping demons.

01:15:16.620 by their actions and the way to combat it though isn't a fuss you know and just complain and listen

01:15:22.560 to fox news it's actually to repent in the lord jesus christ and to wage war against the demon

01:15:26.700 death cult that's what you do just repent and believe in the lord jesus christ yeah and i even

01:15:31.660 i even pointed this out in the talk but the you know like riley gains is doing a lot of good work

01:15:36.480 on transgenderism you know opposing it but then she poses for like the american conservative dads 0.62

01:15:43.560 like swimsuit issue and i'm like no like that is something that you have to call out and again you

01:15:50.740 just have to be comfortable with like people are going to hate you that's part of the that's part

01:15:55.420 of being a faithful prophet you know lower lowercase p prophet in this age um it it also

01:16:04.580 points me and we can close with this but it's a big reason i think for our conference this year

01:16:12.640 And it's looking back to the founding of our country,

01:16:15.320 which was Christian and Protestant,

01:16:17.940 and saying part of how we got here, Ben,

01:16:20.940 is that we lost the will even to exist.

01:16:24.780 So I've said this on X, but if we had the will to exist,

01:16:27.980 what would it look like?

01:16:28.780 Well, number one, we would close our borders. 1.00

01:16:30.720 We would start making babies.

01:16:33.060 And we would start putting our people first.

01:16:37.140 That's just, you know, ordo amoris.

01:16:39.260 This is just natural order of things that we ought to love and protect that which is

01:16:44.500 ours.

01:16:45.080 People don't really have that today.

01:16:47.620 It's more ascendant on the right.

01:16:50.160 But Ben, as you think about the conference, why did we choose that?

01:16:54.560 Why is that important in this moment?

01:16:56.700 Yeah, I think that we have an inheritance in history from our forefathers of the West.

01:17:03.720 Men like Charlemagne, men like Alfred, men like George Washington, men like Constantine

01:17:08.340 XI.

01:17:08.760 Like these are men who helped make the West, and yes, Aristotle and Plato, like these are all men

01:17:15.220 that helped make the West what it was. And so when we want to recover Christendom, it's important to

01:17:21.740 remember, yes, that means preaching the gospel, repentance and faith, making disciples, but it's

01:17:27.840 not enough that we just reclaim the fact that we're Christians. We have to go a step further

01:17:33.420 and remember that we are Western Christians. That's a different kind of Christianity than

01:17:38.040 Eastern Christian. It's a different ethos. Same faith, one faith, one baptism, but very different 0.60

01:17:43.960 ethotic flavors to those things. And so part of why I'm so excited about our conference is because

01:17:49.820 it's an opportunity to start that conversation. What does it look like to practically reclaim

01:17:54.840 the Western ethos and become a Western Christian man and woman? Well, one of the things is safety

01:18:01.140 third. That helped define the West. Risk is unavoidable. You will be taking a risk. Doing

01:18:08.020 nothing is one of the biggest risks you can take because it has virtually no opportunity for reward

01:18:13.480 and every opportunity for failure. And so safety third, I think is going to be a really important

01:18:18.980 principle for people to live by. Just also to quickly comment, this is something I wanted to

01:18:23.720 say on the panel, but, but ran out of time, um, about the fields being white for harvest on the

01:18:29.140 right part of the the duty of knowing the times like one of the things that we emphasize in the

01:18:34.980 guild and among our team is we want to be men that know the times that means recognizing what

01:18:40.680 type of preparatory work the spirit has been doing uh you know when you preach the gospel

01:18:46.500 even if people don't convert you'd like to hope in faith that the spirit is nonetheless preparing

01:18:52.980 souls for eventual conversion softening hearts all these things and i do think that that's been

01:18:58.500 happening a lot. This is one of the biggest problems that I saw with the Antioch declaration

01:19:02.680 is they said something in there, some ridiculous thing about like how being angry at a lie that

01:19:09.640 you've been told does not give you the right posture to accept truth or some nonsense like 0.86

01:19:16.040 that. What that totally ignores is that that may be right in and of itself. Like you're not ready

01:19:24.380 to positively give your life to the true good and beautiful just by nature of being angry about a

01:19:30.400 lie that you've been told but being angry at the lie does prepare you to accept the truth it does

01:19:36.460 prepare you to to have a positive vision for the future if you are given it and so i don't think

01:19:41.660 that we i think that we need to be careful not to ignore that and the right is angry this kind of

01:19:47.120 new ascendant right this new christian right is very angry at the lies that it's been told

01:19:51.760 that means that the spirit i believe has prepared the hearts of the people that are angry at those

01:19:57.660 lies to then hear and be given the good true and beautiful so i'm excited about that it is

01:20:03.860 interesting just interjecting that at the conference i talked to a lot of guys who i'm

01:20:08.440 like how did you find out about joel us this movement and they were like actually you know

01:20:13.980 my whole background is like right-wing politics um and i had skipped out on church for many years

01:20:20.460 because all I had ever heard was like the long house, you know,

01:20:24.140 accept Jesus into your heart and everything will be therapeutically great for

01:20:27.040 you. And then,

01:20:28.440 and then we're actually providing answers to their questions that are grounded,

01:20:32.580 as Dan said, also in natural law. And so these people were like, yeah,

01:20:37.740 I mean, to, to your point, like I saw the law or the lie.

01:20:43.480 I saw the problems and in many ways, yes,

01:20:47.620 those guys were ready to receive the full truth because of that yeah it's a preparatory work and

01:20:53.260 that's very very important but yeah the the conference safety third we got to reclaim the

01:20:58.220 western ethos we have to be western christians not just christians yeah i love that dan final

01:21:02.320 thoughts on conference why you're so excited for people to come the best conference in my history

01:21:08.740 in history and might i just add as you're thinking about your answer i mean you probably already know

01:21:14.340 because you're so big brained but uh we have currently 40 men we have capped the singles

01:21:22.580 mixer there are 40 men who are coming and i think we have like 20 women so ladies what is it like a

01:21:31.500 one dollar ticket because you can't make it zero can't make it zero but ladies if you're single

01:21:35.700 if you're single all the single ladies dan's already thinking of the song uh come on out for

01:21:41.620 the conference uh we we're gonna be i think doing some videos on this but like last year there was

01:21:48.300 one couple that's in our church that met at the singles mixer they got married and they have a

01:21:55.400 baby on the way so for the inner nihilist the black-pilled nihilist who's there's no good women

01:22:01.540 there's no good men out there i just want to encourage you we've had i think three or four

01:22:06.900 weddings now that have resulted from the singles mixers um so just want to encourage people uh to

01:22:12.740 check that out go to new chris and impress.com slash 2025 you can sign up sign up for the singles

01:22:17.560 mixer and uh you know get yourself hitched could be a great time uh dan most exciting thing for you

01:22:25.760 about the conference the most exciting thing other than my talk but yeah um so the most exciting

01:22:34.380 thing. I don't know what, I mean, I'll give you a couple. So the talks always like in flame zeal,

01:22:41.780 like the, the reason that we pick the speakers we do and the topics that we give to them is

01:22:48.140 because we think they're the best person to speak to a specific idea or specific topic.

01:22:54.760 We're not necessarily going out and getting the biggest names to draw the most people to get the

01:22:59.960 biggest conference. That's actually not our goal. What we want to do is find the right person to

01:23:04.580 speak to the right thing. And I think that, you know, the last two years that we've done the

01:23:09.460 conference, it's obvious to anybody that's attended that it's been very high quality.

01:23:14.040 It's been very encouraging. I think the other thing that that is often underestimated at

01:23:20.780 conferences, just the connections with networking and the friendships that can be made. Everything

01:23:26.320 from like you were talking about with the singles mixer and their marriages. Now there are two

01:23:31.260 families that are connected, you know, and, and there's a new family that's being made right now,

01:23:36.960 um, all the way to like, we've had multimillion dollar business deals that were forged because of,

01:23:42.900 um, networking at the conference. Um, and just the opportunities when you get a group of builders

01:23:49.360 in the same building and you get them to talk about what they could actually make,

01:23:56.140 what they could create i mean there is endless possibilities well it is interesting i was

01:24:04.000 thinking about this kind of like why rhodesia was so great in its heyday is because you took

01:24:08.860 all the most entrepreneurial go-getter risk-taking guys from england and you're like let's put them

01:24:14.260 all in one place and they built an amazing country um so yeah same same deal like we'll have i mean

01:24:22.500 even we've been the connections that were made at some of our conferences led to the building in

01:24:27.380 Tennessee with Ridge Runner. I mean, it's quite impressive. So yeah, calling guys out. We've got

01:24:34.080 a business mixer. We've got a VIP mixer. We've got a pastor's breakfast. Definitely want to

01:24:38.900 encourage guys to check that out. Great time to connect, especially if you're interested in

01:24:44.080 building. We got the new Christendom games too. Oh yeah. There's going to be games. That might be

01:24:49.780 the thing people have asked about the most yeah i mean i get it like you know it's it's like

01:24:53.880 when aeneas's father died what did they do well they had physical uh trials to see who was the

01:25:00.180 strongest and who could wrestle the heart and who could run the fast like that's amazing yeah that's

01:25:04.040 part of the west uh playing games physical tests so uh if you're interested in that you can find

01:25:09.740 that somewhere but i can't remember the link uh yeah we'll have to include that in the show notes

01:25:13.860 pit yourself against dan's physical prowess is good luck we're is what we're saying so good luck

01:25:20.820 uh we want to thank you guys for joining us on this episode of the king's hall podcast

01:25:25.260 until next time deus vault

01:25:27.980 stay safe mask up get the vax don't take unnecessary risks be careful we've been coddled

01:25:41.740 Smothered in warnings

01:25:43.280 Trained to fear and avoid risk

01:25:45.740 We've been taught to play it safe

01:25:47.680 And be on our guard

01:25:48.560 And not just against a scraped knee

01:25:51.040 Or a failed endeavor

01:25:52.080 No, we've been taught to censor our speech

01:25:54.560 Our words, even our thoughts

01:25:56.540 Don't think those dangerous thoughts

01:25:58.780 Don't notice, don't speak out

01:26:00.900 If you do, we're coming for you

01:26:03.080 Who's coming for you?

01:26:05.360 It almost doesn't even matter

01:26:06.540 Whether it's the HR lady at your company

01:26:09.160 Of either sex 1.00

01:26:10.100 weaponized church courts the social media censors or even those you once considered allies watch

01:26:16.680 out take care play it safe but was it always this way have we always lived under this kind of

01:26:23.280 stifling wet blanketing panopticon is this the spirit of our christian forefathers of the men

01:26:29.780 who founded our nation in blood and in faith willing to face down all the might of britannia

01:26:35.200 and her redcoats? There was a time when Americans didn't shrink from risk, when they would rather 1.00

01:26:40.720 die than bend. Our Christian forefathers knew what it was to draw the sword and throw away 0.99

01:26:50.800 the scabbard. They knew what it was to set sail for the unknown. They defied tyrants. They built,

01:26:57.340 explored, and dared great things. Who settled this land? Who built one of the greatest nations

01:27:03.660 ever to be? Who settled the West and covered the continent from sea to sea with the Christian 1.00

01:27:08.300 people? Who searched out glories, crisscrossed the plains with railroads, and fought off usurpers

01:27:14.320 and invaders on all sides? Risk wasn't a bug. It was a feature. Without it, our fathers knew

01:27:20.380 there was no greatness. And now, we're supposed to trade boldness for bureaucracy? We're supposed

01:27:26.540 to tremble at the unknown instead of mastering it? We're supposed to bow and scrape, not even

01:27:32.040 before bullets, but before HR ladies? We don't think so. It's time to remember who we are. 0.93

01:27:39.380 This year, join us here at New Christendom Press for our annual conference, Safety Third,

01:27:44.680 Recovering the American Will to Greatness. Four days to forge new friendships, build coalition,

01:27:50.380 and work to recover what was lost. It's time to reclaim the spirit that built this nation,

01:27:55.380 to break free from fear, to risk, to build, to lead. The future belongs to the bold.

01:28:02.040 Well, in case you didn't know, we have another King's Hall show called The After Hours,

01:28:10.640 and it's available only to our patrons.

01:28:13.300 We have a great time in The After Hours.

01:28:14.840 I play hype songs, which Brian loves.

01:28:16.860 Sometimes we even talk about Brian's cut.

01:28:18.580 We talk about recent news on X and answer listener questions.

01:28:21.780 Overall, it's a great time, so I'd encourage you to head over to patreon.com

01:28:26.240 slash thekingshall if you'd like to support the show and get some extra content.

The King's Hall - May 09, 2025

Destroying the Longhouse

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