00:04:43.880You know, this was actually one of the points, Dan, when I did not anticipate this, we're
00:04:48.680standing backstage kind of on the side, watching you give this charge and you asked something
00:04:53.820like a couple, there was like a series of questions, but you're like, are we going to
00:04:56.960be defeated and people were yelling they were like no yeah i was like did he pay people in the
00:05:03.540audience i know i didn't pay unscripted there were a few families that i said hey i'm gonna do this
00:05:10.020thing that's kind of ridiculous and i just please cheer even if no one else does could you do me
00:05:15.100that favor but everybody everybody was really excited so but even so i mean there was just an
00:05:20.480energy about that talk there was an energy about the whole conference so brian i kind of want to
00:05:26.300ask you is we've had some time to reflect what do you make of the the energy um some of it is
00:05:35.180white boy summer some of it has nothing to do with that um it's really i think about a particular
00:05:41.380moment in which everybody in our culture especially young guys are being disheartened
00:05:46.380disenfranchised but it was a place to go where i heard a lot of people say things like
00:05:53.160this is the first time in my life i've been around a thousand other people and we're all on the same
00:05:59.240page i'm not the weirdo i mean we are weirdos all of us all of us what do you i guess what are you
00:06:08.360making the energy where's that coming from so i've been to a lot of conferences and uh especially
00:06:13.520back in the day in the more of the big eva world even even not big eva like i mean mega churchy
00:06:21.620Like growing up in a megachurch sort of environment on staff as a worship leader, we would go to the National Worship Leaders Conference.
00:06:29.000And then in our Calvary Chapel days, we'd go to the Calvary Chapel conferences.
00:06:32.560And a lot of the time, conferences are built around basically this idea of how can we get the biggest celebrity name to come and do the thing that they do at 60 conferences a year and give that same talk over and over again?
00:06:52.380And it's just going to be Giglio on laminate, laminate, it's shaped like all things together.
00:09:08.600Yeah, you made a comment in your speech that I thought was really interesting, which was like, if you're here, you're probably not here.
00:09:15.500Like much of the Young Restless and Reform Conference movement, you're probably not here to hear your five hundred and ninety seven sermon on justification by faith.
00:09:24.860Right. And it's not that we don't care about that deeply.
00:09:28.520But when you're thinking through topics that were covered in the conference, this is really sort of the what time is it?
00:09:35.280What's yeah. What's the pressing issue of the day?
00:12:35.620Yeah, I think that that's a huge, like, so when you talk about energy, that's a huge piece of the energy. Dan, I want to ask you, we read for the cold open from first Samuel 22. This is a passage that I keep going back to and thinking about in his great mercy, like what God is doing here. And especially verse two, it says everyone who was in distress, everyone who was in debt, everyone who was bitter in soul, they gathered to David and David gave them a mission.
00:13:02.000It says he became commander over them and they were there were with him about 400 men.
00:13:07.140So it's interesting to me when you look around at the people at the conference.
00:13:12.560And I look at broader reform circles that we're all kind of adjacent to.
00:13:18.180There's a lot of the legacy guys in our world who are like, really do not like what we're doing.
00:13:23.580Really don't like the fact that, you know, Dan would put on pities and not counter signal.
00:13:29.780because generally anybody in our camp who's going to talk about white boy summer,
00:13:36.280They're going to counter signal theonomy.
00:13:37.860They're going to counter signal anything that is not pietism.
00:13:41.700So as you think about winning the hearts of men and women,
00:13:46.680and you think about the conference, I mean, I don't know what your take would be,
00:13:50.980but I look at it and I think I am humbled.
00:13:54.380I'm honored when people come up and they say with especially grown men,
00:13:59.780manly men with tears in their eyes and they say your content has changed my life thank you have
00:14:05.680a nice day to to see the impact and to sense that maybe there are really wonderful mighty people
00:14:12.800who've been disenfranchised gathering whether it's around us whether it's around joel but
00:14:18.020collaborating just what do you make of that do you think it is a sort of a cave of a dulem situation
00:14:24.280Yeah, I do. One of the I think one of the things to realize and recognize is that God is doing a work here. He's doing it in Ogden in the church. And what we do through New Christian Press and Kings Hall, Bright Hearth, you know, all of the projects that we do is an overflow of the work that God is doing here locally.
00:14:44.460And so God is working. And when you look at the conference and you have, you know, a very excited group of people, you know, a thousand people and like Brian had mentioned, the temptation is to is to say, like, God is disappointed in you, but he's actually for you.
00:15:00.320You know, that's that's part of the point. And I think one of the temptations with older men, because I can feel this pull at times being somewhat crotchety myself is is to temper zeal.
00:15:13.720like yeah when you see it not not temper zeal that's wrong uh to extinguish to knock it down
00:15:19.540to extinguish zeal to see younger men that have zeal and to say okay settle down sport when you
00:15:26.080get to my age you'll see how really that's just all uh what's the word like uh you just seeing
00:15:32.420the world through rose colored glasses yeah there's just a lot of excitable fizzing going on
00:15:36.780in in between your ears right now and just just wait until when you get some substance like me
00:15:42.020oh and when they mean when they say substance they mean girth they mean just like pessimism
00:15:49.060i mean literally it's like it's the instinct dan's right it's the instinct of look we had a room i
00:15:54.580was shocked looking around the room there were not very many overweight people
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00:16:35.440no that that is an interesting point that wasn't the point i was trying to make no but i'm saying
00:16:43.920it's like my point would be to your point i'm jumping on your point and hitting it in the face
00:16:50.020with a sledgehammer when you look around and you see the in-shape people the instinct could be
00:16:56.280let me tell you about all the vainglory of working out instead of saying like hey i'm glad you are
00:17:04.860strong yeah you're strong first john too first john young man you are strong be strong for this
00:17:10.300purpose etc so keep making your point now yeah now that we've thoroughly and sufficiently interrupted
00:17:15.140no so i can see the temptation of of having um zealous younger men around zealous people and
00:17:22.780just saying like oh settle down like you don't know you don't understand yet you haven't actually
00:17:28.200in into just like personally my interactions with the conference and with all of the the people that
00:17:34.620that I met there, you, you don't understand, like it is actually difficult to pastor.
00:17:40.960It's difficult to do the work we do. Um, we sit, uh, in a basement and we record these podcasts
00:17:49.680and people are blessed by them. And I'm super encouraged by that. And don't, don't get me
00:17:53.920wrong, but the day in and day out grind of counseling, of, of bearing people's burdens
00:17:59.520and, and helping them through really genuinely difficult situations. After a while, you can
00:18:04.440see the temptation to say like, Hey, you don't understand. You haven't been bearing the weight
00:18:09.220I've been bearing. Uh, you just need to settle down like this. Your zeal is, is too much. Like
00:18:16.000just, just settle down a little bit and you can feel the pull, but instead what was really helpful
00:18:21.520for me coming out of the conference, I hope it was helpful for everyone else, but I'm going to
00:18:25.600be selfish and talk about myself is that I looked around at all of the zealous families. Cause there
00:18:31.940were tons of kids um tons of of um you know husbands and wives uh that are trying to lead
00:18:38.580their families thinking generationally having a positive vision for the future and i looked around
00:18:43.720and and i was like yes this the the weight is great and it's a lot to bear and it is so worth
00:18:49.840it because all of these people are on our side and the lord is blessing them and the lord is
00:18:56.740working and the Lord is producing fruit. And so why would one stoop so low as to discourage
00:19:04.720the, the workers that God has called into the harvest to say, the work is too great.
00:19:11.040You are, you're not qualified. How dare you think that you can harvest so much? You know,
00:19:16.980you peons, like just settle down, you know, it, it, it doesn't make sense for older men to do
00:19:24.540that. But instead of directing the zeal, that's what they should be doing instead of crushing it.
00:19:29.340Yeah. And that's such a good point. I think that really is a lot of the heart of the tenor. I was
00:19:34.500just trying to describe that you really that actually landed in the conference is that it
00:19:39.640reminds me of this proverb when I can't remember the address, but the glory of a king is his people.
00:19:46.460Right. And you think about the Lord, the king of kings, his glory is his people. So when you're
00:19:52.520looking out at why was it so glorious? Why was it so encouraging? And it was like,
00:19:57.580it wasn't because everybody's razzed by these amazing, razzed is the wrong word. Everybody's
00:20:04.220jacked up by this insane eloquence of speakers who were yelling and shouting and, you know,
00:20:10.520no, the glory is the people. And the glory that as pastors and as teachers and in any way that
00:20:17.460we have a publicly influential teaching ministry, the goal and the glory is that those people would
00:20:23.240go and be a glory. It's that it's not that Stephen Wolf and Joe Rigney and some pastors and leaders
00:20:29.240alone here in the ecclesiastical sphere and the scholarly sphere that they would go and just be
00:20:34.700do glorious book writing. That's important. They should crush it in those things God has put in
00:20:39.800front of them. But the real glory is going to come when all of these people, these normal mothers
00:20:45.900and fathers and their children who are working businesses and doing all sorts of their ordinary
00:20:50.420vocations the Lord has called them to. It's when they believe that the Lord is on their side,
00:20:55.720that God is working in their working, that they're doing something massively significant with their
00:21:00.820lives and strength, that they're a part of something far bigger than themselves. They
00:21:05.440belong to a people. They belong to a Lord who has named them and given them meaningful things to do.
00:21:11.940And so why wouldn't you go with all of your might and all of your strength and fight dragons and build castles and do your duty?
00:21:21.640And like, I just I think another thing that hit, especially you and Stephen Wolf, and it was sprinkled in Joel Webin also Joel in spades.
00:21:31.020Yeah, really hit was this this thing in past conferences I've gone to.
00:21:36.220I've almost felt like I needed to apologize when I spoke to one of the speakers there because I'm not a pastor.
00:21:40.640You know, like at the time I wasn't, I wasn't in the clergy is like, Oh, I'm just a worm.
00:21:45.720Like I'm, I'm not, I haven't ascended to the, to the Heights as you have, you know, and
00:21:50.660the, the thing that you and, and, and Joel and Steven really hit on where, where your
00:29:21.220But what you find there is that the scriptures, Romans 13 in particular, one of the things
00:29:27.480that it says is the duty of the diaconate, the public deacon of God's justice, the civil
00:29:33.360magistrate, is to punish the wrongdoer.
00:29:37.500Or another way to say is to crush the enemies of God in their unrighteousness and to praise the good.
00:29:44.560So when Paul says the one who does good and to reward those who do good.
00:29:49.140So when when when Joel says that we need to reward our friends and crush our enemies, he's actually telling the truth about one category that we need to think about that happens to be a very important category right now in our day for Christians to get a handle on.
00:30:06.760In a nation where we're prime, where we are a majority professed to be Protestant Christians, which is the United States of America, particularly our rulers, the majority of them claim to be Christians, even in the Congress, the Senate, like you could look at this, the demographics, the majority of our executive leaders in the, in the office of the president, majority of Supreme court.
00:30:26.380Like you can you can look through. They all claim to be Christians. And Joel's saying, if you're Christians, you should be crushing the enemies of God and his people in rewarding the righteous.
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00:36:44.100Where are you going to hear in another conference someone be like, Anglo-Protestantism is a
00:36:47.900good thing that God did and you should deeply desire it again and put your strength into seeing
00:36:52.820it rise from the ashes. Well, and that's, that's what Dan identified this very early on in the
00:36:58.640work that we were doing. But one of the things that gave rise to Joe Rogan and Jordan Peterson
00:37:04.080and sort of the intellectual dark web, you know, one of the things that I think gave rise to King's
00:37:11.420Hall and the stuff we're doing, even with haunted cosmos really was talking to the taboo, talking
00:37:17.800in Christian circles about the things that uh most Christians wouldn't talk about um so Dan
00:37:24.860I guess just to ask you why is it so important uh one of the charges I guess I get the most
00:37:31.540even from friends in our circles is well you're just a shock jock you're trying to engagement farm
00:37:38.360and my contention would be well sometimes but what's wrong with what's wrong with engagement
00:37:44.800farming. Yeah. But also we speak to the taboo because we believe in principle that the things
00:37:51.140we're speaking to are very important. So why is it important to talk about taboo? Yeah, well,
00:37:57.540if you look at the landscape right now in public media and public ministries, you have a permissible
00:38:05.080narrative. Why do we get in trouble? Why does Joel get in trouble? Why does Stephen Wolf get in
00:38:09.700trouble. It's because we're landing outside of the permissible narratives, the things that
00:38:15.720everybody agrees on, like, oh, these are where the battle lines are. You know, you can see this a lot
00:38:20.840in politics, like Republicans are going to take a generally pro-life stance and Democrats are going
00:38:26.420to take a pro-abortion, you know, pro-choice stance, like, and there's permissible talking
00:38:31.980points along that. But as soon as you land outside that, like, hey, like apology, I just went Jeff
00:38:38.120Durbin just went big because somebody notated that he said that mothers who kill their babies
00:38:45.020should be punished for that up to capital punishment, you know, depending on the severity
00:38:52.180of the crime. And that's outside of the permissible narrative. He touched on a taboo,
00:38:56.880but he also said something that needed to be said. He needed to say that there are other reasons why
00:39:03.400it's really important to talk to the taboos other than everybody's thinking about it and nobody says
00:39:07.600says it first it displays courage um it also is actually what gets things done it's what actually
00:39:15.280moves the narrative you want to see the overton window shift you have to talk about the things
00:39:21.200that people are afraid to talk about the things that are outside of your standard political
00:39:26.520talking points if you actually want to see things get changed this is what the left has been doing
00:39:31.660for decades and they've been absolutely decimating christian culture for decades because they are
00:39:38.740willing to talk to the taboos they're willing to say like hey you know the the you know homosexual
00:39:45.180lgbtq rights um uh trans and kids is fine tranny story hour like the the whole deal they just keep
00:39:53.580pushing they keep pushing harder and harder and we look at it and go that's gross that's disgusting
00:39:57.440they're talking to the taboos while we're too uh cowardly to actually talk outside of the
00:40:04.800permissible you know narrative so yeah it's a phenomenal point dan uh it gets to something
00:40:09.920brian you were talking about the other day and you said that the the left knows what to do with
00:40:14.460its radicals but the right doesn't yeah that's absolutely true because what the left does
00:40:19.520is probably some significant percentage of the left the establishment left they don't actually
00:40:26.220agree with like aoc and the green new deal people and a lot of them don't actually agree with that
00:40:32.640a lot of them even if you go back 10 years 15 years they didn't necessarily agree with like
00:40:38.000the the most radical edge of the lgbtq agenda and that sort of thing they would maintain that 80
00:40:44.340body of them they would maintain center in the overton window with even saying like hey we're
00:40:50.160not for gay marriage we're for um civil unions and that sort of thing meanwhile five to ten percent
00:40:57.140some smaller percentage of their radicals were were fomenting revolution for in literally insane
00:41:03.020ideas compared to that like throuple marriages and pederasty as part of the spectrum of sexual
00:41:09.520attraction as normative and all these things what you would never find is that 80 body of the left
00:41:15.600count constantly counter signaling their radicals instead they let them slowly move
00:41:21.360the overton window and then they never punch they kept the center so if you compare joe biden's
00:41:27.560statements about sexuality today to what he said in 2010 to what he said in uh 2000 he's a total
00:41:33.420hypocrite it's not it's he doesn't actually ever have a real principle other than his power and
00:41:38.860the consolidation of his power what the right does though it has partly to do with the nature
00:41:44.600of conservatism as conserving something against radical progressivism, they view right wing
00:41:51.360radicals and they have the same instinct to chop down progressivism, chop down radical,
00:41:58.980the radical nature of like a let's change everything sort of narrative.
00:42:02.520And so they constantly counter signal their radicals and shut them down.
00:42:08.840they cooperate with the left in destroying them. And what happens is they slowly move to the left
00:42:15.640along with the moderate leftists. The Christian church does the same thing. They allow for the
00:42:23.220mainstream narrative, which is the way of establishing credibility within the mainstream.
00:42:28.140You go through their institutions, you kiss the required rings, you go through the required
00:42:33.720gatekeepers, you're not allowed to say certain things or talk about certain issues. So the way
00:42:38.360now in a loss of trust economy where all of our institutions have collapsed in terms of
00:42:44.440respectability, like there is no mainstream credibility establishing mechanism within
00:42:50.480evangelicalism today. How do you actually get credibility today? Real authentic credibility
00:42:55.700that God would approve of. You have to say, what were those things that you weren't allowed to
00:43:00.940talk about if you wanted mainstream conservative credibility? Oh, those are probably exactly the
00:43:06.780things that we need to talk about because those are the places where you're idolaters those are
00:43:11.120the places where you've given way and so what that does is it establishes a new mechanism i hope
00:43:16.460for establishing credibility around courage and truth telling well this is sort of in the key
00:43:22.180areas the point with the mighty men and you know william wallace right men vital that men will
00:43:27.320follow courage not titles and i think we're in one of those epics in history where that's
00:43:33.140particularly true. But I also think there's a principle here with the mighty men. And this
00:43:39.800years ago, I was listening to a series of sermons by Matt Truella about how God loves to work
00:43:44.960through bands of small, small groups of men, right? Gideon's 300, the 400 mighty men. I think
00:43:52.440even in American evangelicalism, we have this conception that we need a super majority to get
00:43:58.260anything done right yeah when you look at the way god has written history that's just not how he
00:44:03.240works almost never true it's also not how the left has operated no right look at the rainbow flags
00:44:09.540around cities they're not the super majority no and and not that long ago there was less than two
00:44:14.740percent of the population that was actively homosexual right so i think if you're to learn
00:44:20.240things from that from now it's two percent just at the average seminary at the average seminary
00:44:24.420Yeah. So being courageous, speaking of the taboo. One of the ways we've done this, gentlemen, is through book publishing. So we launched a book at the conference by Zachary Garris, Honor Thy Fathers. And this is biblical patriarchy, smashing feminism, but going back to do some reform resourcement.
00:44:43.300And so, Brian, I want to ask you, this book has been really exciting for me.
00:44:59.020Let me let me actually start answering that question by reading Dr.
00:45:02.720Wolf's endorsement of the book, because I the way that he endorsed the book actually was a light bulb for me.
00:45:10.240Yeah, I was I intuited the importance of.
00:45:13.300book like what Zach wrote. But then when Stephen wrote what he did, I was like, that is, that's it.
00:45:18.980He said, quote, the efforts over the last several years to retrieve classical Protestant sources
00:45:25.140and thereby to critique 20th century innovations has been a rather safe enterprise so far,
00:45:31.480being confined largely to reform doctrine, not its practice. But why not return to the
00:45:37.080reformed practice of old? Why not take reformed works on civil polity and domestic duties just
00:45:43.460as seriously? Arguably, we are more out of step with them in matters of practice than in points
00:45:49.300of doctrine. This work by Zach Garris forces us to choose between the safe retrieval of doctrine
00:45:55.740alone and the dangerous retrieval of both faith and practice. It forces us to ask if we're really
00:46:02.540taking our tradition seriously. That's good. And the heart of what Dr. Wolf nails in that about
00:46:09.520this is true of his own book to the case for Christian nationalism. It's true of Zach's book,
00:46:14.840Honor Thy Fathers, is that the way that the reformed establishment has worked of late
00:46:23.460is that you can recover everything related to the head and the mind in doctrinal areas. But
00:46:31.120the head and the mind has been disconnected from the hands and the strength it's like a car that
00:46:40.100has a glorious engine and it's got 600 horsepower and it's you know it it can absolutely just rot
00:46:47.560this thing is like the a sports car engine finely tuned and reformed theologians are like guys who
00:46:54.120they make their life study that engine they could tell you everything about it displacement everything
00:46:59.180about its build quality all of the specs about what what it's able to do at zero to 60 and all
00:47:04.220this stuff but then the thing is they won't allow you to ever put it in gear they won't ever let
00:47:09.160the engine go in gear the minute someone tries to put the thing in first gear they're like whoa
00:47:13.340you're gonna break it like stop and and the disconnect is reformed practice versus reform
00:47:18.880doctrine where if we go back and we actually start doing resourcement of the whole reform
00:47:23.800tradition their their practice as well like guge on the family um the the the men that
00:47:30.580steven wolf's book talks about in the political sphere of city fathers you start to run into
00:47:36.580danger because all of a sudden you're not just you can't just stop by telling christians what
00:47:41.160to think you actually have to tell them what to do and the problem is they're not practicing any
00:47:47.660of the things their reformed forefathers they claim to love are we're practicing in key areas
00:47:52.840of human life like political life and family life. So Zach goes back and he says, first half of the
00:47:59.080book, it's a really simple book in many ways. First half of the book, what did the classical
00:48:04.220reform sources, first and second generation reformers, et cetera, the Westminster Assembly,
00:48:08.520what did they believe about the family? What did they believe about the roles of men and women in
00:48:12.820the church and the family and the Commonwealth? Okay, this is just what they said. Here's the
00:48:17.600disagreements. Here's Calvin and Knox disagreeing over certain aspects of female rule and things
00:48:22.140like that yeah but here's like the body of what they agreed on now second half of the book what
00:48:26.700did tim cal what does kellerism get us what do modern reform what is napark teaching about this
00:48:31.780what is actually happening in the reform world today and all and just by simply putting both
00:48:37.660of those pictures up in front of the reader he's he's very kind to the people that he interacts
00:48:42.300with by the way the reader will go oh our reformed people aren't reformed when it comes to these
00:48:49.520things are they and and the question is that that forces you to ask whenever you find disagreement
00:48:56.640between how you think and live and your christian forefathers it doesn't mean they were automatically
00:49:00.820right on every point but you do have to ask were they right and did their way of doing things
00:49:08.240produce better fruit or does our way of doing things like sex like are we more healthy in the
00:49:13.680family and the roles of men and women today than they were yeah and it's like well and when you
00:49:18.780You need, of course, Zach will, as you mentioned, go after Keller quite a bit, and rightfully so.
00:49:24.280But before he died, right, Keller writes this manifesto about how the church should distance itself from, quote-unquote, fundamentalism and complementarianism.
00:55:02.380Like if you have a leadership team, if you have a church leadership team, particularly,
00:55:06.140uh, I think reading Zach's book in conjunction with Joe's on, um, weaponized empathy and that
00:55:12.720sort of thing. Emotional sabotage is the title of the book, but really would encourage you to
00:55:17.160check both of those out. Yeah. Really helpful resources. Dan, I do want to get your take on
00:55:21.620the book. Uh, why is it important in this moment? Yeah. Well, let me speak more broadly because
00:55:27.640one of the things that you've may have noticed about us discussing the conference is that we
00:55:32.500really appreciate and respect the men that gave their talks because one thing was very clear
00:55:39.120when you allow for a forum you know a platform in which people can speak to their strengths they're
00:55:46.960what they really know what they truly believe and are not afraid of speaking to the taboos
00:55:52.920they will they will absolutely kill it i mean it i i appreciate those guys so much for the time that
00:56:02.080they put into those talks. Speaking with Stephen Wolf before he gave his talk, I said, Oh, this
00:56:08.220probably just another conference, you know, for, for a guy like you, like I've never met the guy
00:56:12.260before. And he's like, no, this one I took very seriously. I spent a lot of time on this talk
00:56:18.220and he did. And the same can be said. So that's what the talks, but also with Zach's book is that
00:56:25.180one of the things that we want to do is give people an opportunity to speak to the taboos.
00:56:30.480And Zach did that very well with eloquence and with a lot of time. It's not a very long book. It's not going to be a 600 page, very dense, you know, essentially like seminary type of school textbook.
00:56:46.060Uh, this is a very approachable book that punches very, very hard and has a lot of,
00:59:22.200We didn't order these through Amazon or something.
00:59:24.560These were we worked with a high quality book publisher and printer to have these special
00:59:31.360editions made this first run hardcover. And so, um, grab one because it's, it's not always like
00:59:37.960five minutes to get another run of this type of book. We're going to plan on releasing it as well
00:59:43.780in audio formats and Kindle and things like that. But, um, this first run, I think is,
00:59:48.720it's going to be a book that you can reference quite a bit. Uh, it, this is the edition I'd
00:59:53.020want on my shelf of this book. So, um, act now. Yeah. Cause we'll do paperbacks or something
00:59:59.060like that at some later point, but, but honestly, if this is a work that I think you'll want to
01:00:03.960have on, uh, you know, pass on to your kids. And so I would recommend buying the hardcover. Yep.
01:00:10.060Yeah, that's great. Uh, one of the things I want to ask you gentlemen, uh, is we had sort of an
01:00:14.240interesting interaction with Ogden high school, a great venue, beautiful building, um, sort of
01:00:23.340like apropos, I guess, for most of our engagement, we had some, I guess, pushback. I'll let you
01:00:30.620gentlemen describe what exactly happened. Uh, maybe we can start with Dan for the detailed
01:00:36.860account, but, um, yeah, what happened? I, by the way, I did have people who are aware
01:00:42.080a lot of the conference goers were like, I noticed there was an issue, but you guys handled
01:00:47.120it well, whatever. Uh, but yeah, Dan, just walk me through that. Yeah. There were some,
01:00:52.080I believe there are high school students, female students, there were four of them that were supposed to be assisting with sound and things like that. And we had hired Brandon B, Brian's producer for music, to assist with sound. And there were there were other men that we had there as well that do this professionally. And so they were they were kind of taking the reins with sound and such.
01:01:13.780And part of the reason that we did that is, one, we just wanted to have a really flawless audio experience.
01:01:18.900We were also doing a lot of recording.
01:01:21.300And then Eric had gone to an event at Ogden High previously, and the sound was it wasn't even on.
01:01:30.940Yeah. If you were sitting in the back, you actually couldn't hear.
01:01:32.860Yeah. Eric said that there were people yelling that they couldn't hear, you know.
01:01:36.320So we wanted to make sure that it was a flawless experience for the people at the conference.
01:01:40.860And so I think they they initially became a little bit perturbed by some of the the men that do this professionally, just kind of taking the reins and not not asking permission.
01:01:51.740But then I don't know what happened from there because we hadn't had any talks or anything like that.
01:01:56.880But one of them had a disagreement with Eric Han.
01:02:00.060Well, actually, I'll back up just the half step.
01:02:03.500They had somehow had double booked the event.
01:02:07.120With the Ogden High School band, the marching band.
01:02:10.340so the main hallway we were using for uh to have a thousand people come in the door
01:02:16.060advertisers and registration and everything else we get there on registration day we're doing our
01:02:22.080setup and they are moving like an entire huge marching band through the hallway and so that
01:02:29.760was kind of the first thing we said hey what's up with this what's going on and then we realized
01:02:34.660they were like well we actually i don't know how but the event is double booked they were like oh
01:02:39.460Yeah, the main two days of the event, we accidentally double booked right across the hallway, the marching band to practice, which is like the drum line and everything from 1 p.m. to 9 p.m.
01:08:11.580Well, some of it, though, was that not only was it the marching band going through, but I'm like I was appalled at the state.
01:08:19.000I know the state of our public schools are horrible and wicked.
01:08:22.380But I mean, when we say like 100 students coming through, I mean, 100 when some of these students are in their early teens to mid teens and they're dressed in the most ridiculously inappropriate sexual ways.
01:08:38.760So a lot of the females in particular, like sports bras and basically like the spandex booty shorts.
01:08:44.880Yeah. So what happened, I guess that sort of the next thing was that somebody from their staff of the girls working in the booth had claimed that some of our conference goers were like calling people whores, making denigrating comments.
01:09:02.200We're calling them like faggots and whores and all this stuff like that are people were calling the students that.
01:09:09.620Yes. So we made an announcement like, hey, if this is happening, blah, blah, blah.
01:09:14.100And then we talked to security. We said, hey, please make sure this doesn't happen.
01:09:17.900Obviously, if it is happening, we want to know.
01:09:20.080What we found out through that process was that the young girl who I had had the interaction with, she was actually talking to students.
01:09:28.680Security saw this happen. She's talking to students before they enter the building, kind of getting them fired up.
01:09:34.380And those students became started actually stripping down to less clothing when yelling at everybody going through the hallway, yelling at each other.
01:09:43.400And then, you know, you had like guys grabbing each other's rear ends and saying like, oh, how do you like that?
01:10:00.040The other thing, too, is in trying to verify whether these things actually happened, we talked to security, security talked to the vendors who were in the hallway most of the time.
01:10:12.220Not everyone said they're like, I'm pretty sure that didn't happen.
01:10:15.440Yeah, I had the principal of the school come and address the situation with me, claiming that, you know, some lady was called a whore and somebody else was called a faggot.
01:10:25.560And I said, OK, she first of all, she she weaponized our Christian faith against us and said, I thought you were religious.
01:10:35.040What would Jesus do? He certainly wouldn't call someone a faggot.
01:10:38.940And so I gave her the thousand mile stare that I'm somewhat famous for now.
01:10:43.080And then I said, OK, do you have any description of the person?
01:10:47.440Everybody's conveniently wearing name tags.
01:10:49.580And so do you have any description or evidence? Any witnesses?
01:10:52.860You have cameras. You have cameras. Yeah.
01:10:55.340right. And, and she said, no, we don't, we don't have any evidence essentially. And I said, okay,
01:11:00.600I will go and request evidence. We'll warn people at the conference that if they have any evidence,
01:11:06.920they should come to us and we'll immediately remove that person. Uh, and as Eric pointed out,
01:11:12.440we discovered no evidence and upon further investigation determined that it was the
01:11:18.940young lady that was particularly rude to Eric that seemed to be inciting behavior from the
01:11:25.180students and so uh the conclusion that one comes to in this case when you have a lack of evidence
01:11:31.220and lack no evidence and you see certain types of behavior uh that false uh a false accusation
01:11:39.960had been levied against us in an attempt to discredit us it's the classic the new i there
01:11:46.420was a noose hanging in my tree outside my and then the neighbors ring doorbell cameras like
01:11:51.460you put the noose there i'm sorry there was a didn't someone put a swastika on the steps
01:11:58.120at one point yeah there was a swastika etched into the concrete of the steps which was not our
01:12:03.960like it's just not our people this that didn't have like we didn't do that so it was this theme
01:12:09.340of it's a classic example of the left they will do anything to destroy their enemies i'm just i'm
01:12:16.640just shocked at the lack of uh judicious um action from the administrator and from the principal in
01:12:25.200particular she was incredibly rude and condescending and i am absolutely astonished that
01:12:32.600she's in charge of anything much less an entire high school c.s lewis actually wrote so i was
01:12:37.200gonna say it sounds exactly like the conclusion of the voyage of the dawn shredder yes she'll
01:12:42.420probably end up in the senate i think that was wasn't that uh silver chair it was uh silver
01:12:49.160chair at the end of silver chair yeah so it's uh when they come back i just finished for each
01:12:53.740of the dogs yeah so you can check out a hardman podcast episode i'm so embarrassed dan and i
01:12:58.620actually so embarrassed dan and i actually did an episode on on on that segment so it's good you
01:13:04.320should check it out i do also think it's interesting though because um it's a good
01:13:09.100snapshot of when we start being bold Christians in our sphere and and we're not talking about
01:13:15.900being belligerent we're not talking about rude as Brian said we were anything but that we were
01:13:21.160trying to be professional at all times very kind I was so polite it made me sick right but you're
01:13:28.540going to face this sort of opposition and I think particularly I was thinking day one as this was
01:13:33.480happening? Like, why does this have to be happening right now? But then very quickly,
01:13:38.720like, cause I'm driving back home to get changed and come back to the conference.
01:13:42.300I'm also thinking God ordained this for a reason. Right. And, um, you know, some of the lessons
01:13:49.620learned from it, I think are just, yeah, again, it's just that thing in our world. Our world is
01:13:54.740crazy. People are in complete denial of reality. And so as Christians, you have to be prepared for
01:14:00.480this sort of thing you've got to know that the world around you is going to hate you and that
01:14:05.820doesn't mean that you should stop it probably means that you know shots are over the target
01:14:10.940and so keep going i i do want to commend our conference goers though because we did have some
01:14:18.900you know in our culture especially we had some spicy young guys there there's a lot of people
01:14:24.260who believe a lot of things very fervently i thought they actually handled themselves very
01:14:29.420well nobody took the bait no nope no because it's like the the time to make it some of you
01:14:36.400listening are probably like why didn't you all start yelling at everybody's like well the time
01:14:40.900to make the stand is not to the 14 year old um band student as they walk through your venue
01:14:47.260that's the time actually when paul says let your reasonableness be known to all men yes and you and
01:14:52.960then you will just heap condemnation on them as they have nothing evil to say to you with it they
01:14:57.300can actually demonstrate it truly happened. Yeah. Well, and it's very encouraging to me
01:15:01.940to have these young guys with zeal and they might lose their self-control for a minute and let
01:15:07.280something go, but they, they valued the tribe. They're like, no, this would, this would actually
01:15:12.260cause harm to my tribe. And, and that's why I think it's so important with, you know, the cave
01:15:19.520of Abdullam, you know, and that idea when you, when you attract the disaffected, when you attract
01:15:24.720the young men like that, you're actually winning them to something. You're winning them to the
01:15:29.300tribe. And it's especially important to have leaders that are encouraging these young men
01:15:35.120and winning their hearts because what does it produce? Tempered zeal, zeal in the right
01:15:41.080direction. That's what it produces so that you don't have young men that are just completely
01:15:47.400lacking in self-control, just letting go to the harm of them and to everyone else around them.
01:15:53.080but instead they can actually control their zeal because they have to do it for the sake of the
01:15:59.640tribe and for the sake of their people. That's why white boy summer is so important, by the way.
01:16:04.580That's why it's important because it curates a love for you and your people and, and for your
01:16:10.680tribe. And it's not at the cost of, of others. It's for the sake of the people that you love.
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01:19:20.720yeah that's really good dan uh kind of final thing i want to ask you guys about we did also
01:19:30.200have a speaker panel uh i thought went really well i don't know who the host is or was but
01:19:35.740he did so good he's confident he didn't he didn't talk over his p he let everybody talk he directed
01:19:42.720it well it's a shame he was fired calmly after the conference for drawing a swastika
01:19:48.680that was a joke ogden high i know you're listening anyway it was air con it was yes
01:19:56.600But one of the things I valued about the panel, particularly going into it, there's been a lot of back and forth discussions with other media companies on White Boy Summer and in our circle, in our camp.
01:20:12.220One of the things that just really impressed me was before he went on the panel, I'm kind of getting a feel for the guys.
01:20:18.140A lot of times you do these panels at conferences and guys say, I don't want to talk about this.
01:20:55.160A lot of good discussion about Christian nationalism.
01:20:58.380And then it, you know, we talked to Allie Bath, had some, I think, good discussion about that.
01:21:03.300And then closed with, you know, talking about the Jews, which was, you know, kind of a providential blessing.
01:21:10.340But like the day before Thomas Massey had said, you know, all my colleagues, the Republicans are controlled by APAC, which is, you know, Jewish fundraising efforts to lobbyists.
01:21:20.640so as we talked about that you know I felt like there's not a lot of reform circles that would
01:21:29.160even touch that absolutely not there is I'm willing to go on record and I don't think there
01:21:35.140is another Christian organization maybe Joel's right response is the only other thing Joel would
01:21:41.300would yeah actually Joel would be the only other one but he's basically our guy that uh would have
01:21:47.060that panel it just doesn't well doug did have the discussion with isker you know what if it's not
01:21:51.800envy oh the the classic yes yes but with the with the breadth of voices and topics and all that and
01:21:59.340just the whole like let's do it we're special we're amazing dan what i'm saying is like i don't
01:22:04.820want to put my arm out of joint having us on the back mainly i was thinking about the the people
01:22:11.620that were on that panel and how right like the fact that you had dr wolf who's not a pastor
01:22:16.600he's a scholar in in in some of his areas of expertise that we're talking about is able to
01:22:24.700bring because a lot of us are pastors and so we tend in pastoral directions which there is always
01:22:30.560this instinct of like hey yeah don't make the jews your whole personality don't do this like
01:22:34.860and i actually think that's that's a good exhortation to give to guys we're thinking
01:22:38.740pastorally don't go buy a 90 000 pickup truck on credit and then be like the jews did this to me
01:33:48.400I think, Brian, correct me if I'm wrong.
01:33:50.560One of the biggest temptations for a camp or a group like ours, Joel Webin, Moscow, you
01:33:57.760know whatever this is I think one of the biggest temptations that we could face is you do all these
01:34:05.160bold things you're courageous you speak to the taboo you're willing to be hated you start to
01:34:10.960get a little bit of a platform and then you start changing the message because bigger platforms are
01:34:16.280like hey we would platform you if like imagine the day Brian if like I don't know let's say
01:34:22.120Tucker says like hey we want Ogden on the show but hey you got to lay off these four issues
01:34:27.060yeah that would be first of all i would say tucker big fan uh the way you took down the
01:34:34.140the journalist in australia oh man i watched that this morning hilarious got me i thought the media
01:34:40.740was going to be you know more intelligent more thoughtful here and no no they're actually worse
01:34:45.760wow they're dumber that i didn't know that was possible no i think tucker says he goes yeah you
01:34:51.900know we just met each other and i thought we would have a good relationship but it's hard to have a
01:34:55.840relationship when you're lying to my face when the first thing you do is lie yeah yeah i i think
01:35:02.440that uh obviously we would decline it'd be like well no thank you because here's the lie too i
01:35:09.740think this is this is one of the lies that we can tend to believe is that being platformed by some
01:35:14.940big existing platform is like the key to success in getting your message out it's actually not the
01:35:20.820case anymore um maybe maybe that was the thing back when you had legacy publishing at its dominant
01:35:26.640peak and legacy media at its dominant peak it's actually dying now yeah if you want to be if you
01:35:31.680want your message to get out you got to get on fox you know what that's just not true anymore
01:35:35.620it's one of the biggest um one of the biggest advertising platforms in the world is like a 30
01:35:43.620year olds youtube channel mr beast who is totally ridiculous and platforming trannies now and nobody
01:35:51.620should ever give him one single view but his platform is so big that like advertisers it's
01:35:58.360hard to find advertisers that can afford it because every one of his episodes is like as
01:36:02.300big as the super bowl right um right now we have a democratization of the microphone through
01:36:10.220technology in emerging technologies like social media, which is still an emerging technology.
01:36:15.220It's so new and it's just going to continue to evolve at an increasingly fast pace.
01:36:21.040What you what you need to do is tell the truth, tell it well, pursue excellence in your craft
01:36:26.920and be try to aim to love your neighbor by being helpful in the domain and vocation he's put you
01:36:32.420in. If it's speaking and if it's pastoring or if it's scholarly work or if it's political
01:36:37.440commentary whatever it is don't bend to try and get the big platform to platform you yeah you get
01:36:44.280on tucker that'd be great you might get a couple you know a couple million people see you for a few
01:36:49.040minutes and then think about the last person you didn't know of that you saw in a clip on tucker
01:36:52.980or something like that that didn't you didn't already know who they were um it didn't like
01:36:59.580all of a sudden you weren't obsessed with that person and believing everything they said
01:37:03.040You have to build real consensus, real platform, real people who are listening to you, not because of some big microphone that someone put in front of your face, but because you're telling the truth.