00:03:48.920See him come, come back up fighting the secret service guys to fist pump, fight, fight, fight.
00:03:56.740And there was something in me that just went electric.
00:04:01.160And it was like this patriotism, this like will to fight came alive.
00:04:10.880And I thought we cannot let them have this country.
00:04:15.220we can't let them do this. This is our country. And it was surprising even to me how powerful
00:04:22.360that was, that feeling. As I was processing it similarly, looking at the video, somebody
00:04:29.140showed it to me, having no idea what happened. And a similar experience to what you had experienced
00:04:35.560as well, Brian, with that electricity. The thing that really stood out to me is immediately I
00:04:41.820thought this was either, either this was scripted by Trump and magically he only was hit in the0.98
00:04:48.960ear or something like that, which I think is absolutely ridiculous. Um, but more than likely,0.88
00:04:54.560you know, it was a real assassination attempt. He showed his true colors in an unscripted moment
00:05:02.540under risk of his own life as shock shots ring out. And you actually get to see the true character
00:05:09.500of a man in that moment something that you can't prepare for that happens and what do you do and
00:05:17.580the way trump reacted was a display of true courageous masculinity yeah that i think it was
00:05:26.280why it was so electric because you don't see those opportunities right you don't get those
00:05:30.940opportunities uh men most men lord willing will not be in a situation where they're being shot at
00:05:36.860on stage. And his reaction, uh, I think showed his true colors because there's a part of you
00:05:43.060that kind of assumes like, you know, he's a big businessman. He's a now a politician and all of
00:05:49.600those guys are probably snakes, right? They're probably cowards on the inside, but that's not0.99
00:05:55.440what he showed. And I think that's part of the reason why it was so powerful. Plus there's a0.92
00:05:59.520bigger, bigger ramifications, but just in that moment, how he reacted to me was really powerful.1.00
00:06:03.800It was like those bastards finally got him at first.0.99
00:06:08.700That was that was like because think about everything they've done to try to stop this man.0.99
00:06:13.200The lawfare, the charges, the I think election interference that they ran, ballot harvesting, all sorts of nefarious activities like they've thrown everything they could to keep this man out of office.
00:06:27.500And then you see this debate, this disastrous debate for Biden, where the mainstream media, though they already should have been the case, but for any idiot who still believed them, the entire mainstream media is basically in one evening utterly discredited as having no honor or connection to truthfulness or principle or care for the country whatsoever.
00:06:51.500these are the people that were propping up a man to have the nuclear codes the commander-in-chief0.94
00:06:56.740of our armed forces the most powerful military in the world and and the man needs a bedpan like
00:07:01.880he's he's he's senile which we've all known right unmasked trump is gonna win like there's no way
00:07:08.580and then and then you go what's the last thing that they can try to do they can try to blow his0.64
00:07:13.540head off and on live tv and leave us with nikki haley or you know leave you know some equally
00:07:19.740disastrous alternative on the Republican side. And against all odds at every turn, the man has0.84
00:07:27.580risked his freedom. He's risked his fortune. He could have gone to his high rise long ago
00:07:36.220and done whatever the heck he wants that someone has hundreds of millions of dollars or billion
00:07:40.360dollars can do. And instead, he keeps putting himself in these situations. And to me, whatever
00:07:46.560disagreements i have politically aside with this or that aspect of the platform or of trump's
00:07:52.780person or whatever it just it was like iris i respect this guy i respect this man and
00:08:01.200it's i was surprised like i've said already i was surprised at the the power of the response
00:08:08.200that even i had like in my own soul i was going it was just a moment since the providence of god
00:08:14.820we're watching the story god is writing unfold and it is not what i predicted no no i thought
00:08:21.060trump would fade into obscurity after 2020 i thought we're screwed we're cooked there's going
00:08:25.620to be no people are always talking about red wave this red wave that after the libs take a you know
00:08:31.900yet more ground and i don't know it was just it was just a wild i'll never forget that it's it's
00:08:37.920up there like that was in uh 9 11 i remember exactly every everything related to that day and
00:08:43.700then this would be the next one for me that i'm like i'm never gonna forget this yeah i think in
00:08:48.960many ways andrew torbo was right last night he was tweeting about this and he said you know july
00:08:55.32013th changed everything and in ways that it's affecting us realizing brian as you said we have
00:09:00.740to fight i i also think it seems to be it could be one of these moments where the plans of the
00:09:06.960wicked backfire because one of the things that happened was i mean this like in a way i've never
00:09:13.120seen in my lifetime energize people on the right. So they shoot at Trump. It looks like there's all0.52
00:09:20.620this shady stuff going on with the Secret Service and their detail. I mean, major questions that
00:09:25.480need to be answered. Absolutely. And I love this in an article titled One Inch Away on the American
00:09:30.840Reformer. This is Timon Klein and Josh Abattoy. So two days afterward, they write this. And they
00:09:35.660said it reminds us of the meme that Trump has been famous for repeating. They aren't coming for me.
00:09:41.640They're coming for you. And I'm just in the way. And I think on that stage, in that moment,
00:09:46.840we felt it. They continue and they write this, that Trump is still standing and pumping his fist
00:09:51.940is a powerful psychological symbol, inspiring waves of new endorsements from the likes of
00:09:58.140Elon Musk and Bill Ackman amidst other reports that even places like San Francisco that day
00:10:03.940were awash with MAGA hats. So, I mean, this changed things, absolutely. But, you know,
00:10:10.840they also point to this thing where just like Teddy Roosevelt, they said, you're starting to
00:10:16.860see a great man take shape. And they write this, they say, love him or hate him. Any historically
00:10:21.840conscious observer must admit both the gravity of that moment and the uniqueness of the man in it.
00:10:28.040This is what Trump told the examiner. I said, I've got to walk out. I have to walk out. I will
00:10:33.220not be carried out of here. Adding that he wanted to keep speaking and they were like, absolutely
00:10:37.960not trump no this is what's so amazing they said this is time and client bring the chart back up0.80
00:10:43.900bring the bring the chart back up the lowest immigration in history
00:10:47.720it's just unbelievable i was picturing it
00:10:51.640yeah i i don't know if it's true or not but you you heard the story uh the day this part is true
00:10:59.200for sure the day after he goes out for 18 holes of golf oh yeah i saw this and he crushes it and
00:11:06.580And apparently he sinks like a really challenging putt.
00:11:09.120And he goes, you see, unlike the shooter, I don't miss.
00:11:12.080That's the difference between him and me.
00:13:57.520and good riddance good riddance welcome buchananism like it's it's back that that was
00:14:04.760such an important moment like again it's it's it's hard to keep track of these because we've
00:14:10.420had so many moments like this and it feels like recently but but that's like it was almost like
00:14:17.540shrugging off the weight of some long you know long held weight that you'd carried on your
00:14:23.840shoulders forever in like our globalist neocon people are over it and and not only were they
00:14:30.980not there who was there was one guy from the from that sort of era mitch mcconnell was there and he
00:14:36.540got booed he literally got booed because he's there to say like you know kentucky we voted
00:14:42.420for donald trump and that delegate you know like can't understand him no he has a stroke he had a
00:14:47.420you know and and the whole time he's being booed i mean loud so you can see a vibe shift yeah people
00:14:56.300said when when trump said fight fight fight people it's it's been changing before that but
00:15:01.780that was like a solidifying moment of electricity where it was like we've turned our back on that
00:15:08.680we're not going back we're going to fight for our people our place our nation what do you think it's
00:15:16.680I mean, just not a mistake, but just like it's not a coincidence that the next day Elon Musk comes out and he pledges $45 million a month to the Trump re-election efforts.
00:15:28.740Yeah, here's the guy that's like, think about the way that there's a sense of which Elon Musk was made by government subsidy and a lot of these things.
00:15:36.240Very savvy political operator, not just technologically and engineering and business, but also in terms of his relationship to government subsidy and a lot of the industry like Tesla.
00:15:46.680doesn't exist without huge government subsidy. But on the other hand, Elon Musk is a guy who's
00:15:52.060now experienced on probably 15 or 20 different fronts, and we don't even know about a lot of
00:15:56.400them, the ways in which his own country, the leadership of his own country, despised him,
00:16:04.200hated him, spat upon him, even while he's working to the best of his ability with his ideas of what
00:16:10.940will be best for his country and for America and for the world, he's giving 100 plus hour weeks
00:16:16.220every week of his life to try and build these companies that he believes are going to benefit
00:16:21.260his country and his his state and all these things and what do they do you have like biden
00:16:26.560doesn't even acknowledge that elon musk is the one who built the ev electric vehicle world and he
00:16:35.280who does he invite to the white house and congratulate like ford and chevy ev people
00:16:41.180Their EVs are terrible. Snubs Elon Musk. I mean, terrible. And they're terrible. They suck. Like
00:16:45.700my dad's friend got a Ford lightning and it's like Ford lightning, like a Ford brick would
00:16:51.820have been a better word for it. It was like in the shop three months within the first week or
00:16:56.040something like they're terrible. It's just recall. It's horrible. In every state he's operated his
00:17:01.080businesses in, they're waging administrative bureaucratic war on him, trying to hamstring
00:17:06.260his companies and it's because they hate him yeah because he's he hasn't kowtoed to their
00:17:11.860totalitarianism well he's not even like in terms of policy elon musk is not like the guy that i
00:17:19.460want in charge of everything in the world but it just shows he's ready he's one of the guys that's
00:17:25.080like we have to fight with everything we are and not go quiet into that good night of leftist
00:17:30.800totalitarianism i think to fight for our nation i think that day in july was a wake-up call
00:17:36.520and people realized they're going to have to put their money in their effort where their mouth was
00:17:40.500i also don't think it's you know just a sheer coincidence that the same week this week following
00:17:47.600the attempted assassination we have gavin newsom in california passing this outrageous bill
00:17:53.580which basically forbids parents from intervening in their child's sex change.
00:17:59.760And Elon says, enough, I'm done with this.
00:18:04.280I think it's SpaceX or whatever's left to Tesla.
00:18:07.420Anything they had left in California, he pulled the plug.
00:18:10.560He said, we're out. We're going to Texas.
00:18:12.200Yep. He said, my employees, I'm not going to force my people to live in a state
00:18:16.680where they are going to claim authority over the children of my employees like that.
00:18:21.460yeah and it was interesting too again vibe shift but he's talking about like
00:18:25.340if your kids are in public school get them out and i'm like i i can't think in what timeline
00:18:32.300like if you would ask me five years ago right if major players uh we're gonna be talking about
00:18:38.160getting out of public school i would have said no way they're not gonna like this is the stuff
00:18:41.940we're getting in trouble for on the far right fringe of christian politics and christian
00:18:48.760worldview people leaving our churches people bringing charges against us for saying get your
00:18:54.580kids out of public schools christians it's not lawful for christians to give their children to0.56
00:19:00.140the state to be mind raped you have to get them out right and we're getting completely i mean0.94
00:19:07.660destroyed regularly as these fringe crazy out there conspiracy theorists fast forward now
00:19:15.040post 2020 it's like mainstream and now you got elon musk he's like yeah you gotta homeschool
00:19:20.840your kids guys like you gotta get your kids out of the public schools they think they own your
00:19:24.360kids are you serious this is the guy who's trying to put like brain chips to control your mind with
00:19:28.680like techno futurism and all this stuff that i'm like pretty skeptical of and that guy is like yeah
00:19:34.820man you're crazy if you think the government's on your side like get him out of there yeah that's
00:19:40.040that's intense uh one of the things i want to bring up and brian this goes actually to your0.96
00:19:43.700talk at the conference, the new Christian press conference in June. We had this in Ogden.
00:19:50.220One of the things you talked about is sort of this idea that we need a new elite, a new
00:19:54.560academia. Like we don't just need pastors. We need, of course, working men, but we also need
00:20:01.340a new elite. It was one of the things that Jeremy Carl brought up. He had written an article,
00:20:05.960I think it's in 2022 for the American conservative. Yeah, May 2022. So he brings this up and he says, you know, I wrote an article. The title is towards a Republican counter elite. He said, and there's a subtitle, the campaigns of Barry Goldwater and Donald Trump highlight the danger of attacking the elite without developing a viable counter elite to replace it with.
00:20:30.440and so we get to talking about this you'll hear more in the interview but it's interesting I said
00:20:35.800I said Jeremy do you remember who is they use for the cover image he said no I don't I said it's JD
00:20:41.300Vance so maybe prophetic so funny anyway funny exchange on that but Brian I want to I just want
00:20:47.740to ask you about that why is it so important like yeah the Trump administration I think learned the
00:20:53.720first time. They didn't have the bureaucratic personnel to successfully run things the way
00:21:01.260they wanted. So that's a lesson learned. But in this moment, do we not have to take that also
00:21:06.060into consideration? Like we need academics who are on our side. We need entrepreneurial business
00:21:10.200guys like Elon Musk. We need politicians, pastors. We need all of it. America is built on the backs
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00:23:01.020and Strings on Instagram. We'll also include the link in the show notes.
00:23:10.440To rule well and win the world, we need strong, healthy, growing Christian businesses.
00:23:15.220But if you own a business, you know the amount of tasks you need to consistently execute can be overwhelming.
00:28:37.980And in our political moment, particularly, you're probably not going to get a candidate who is one-to-one with you on everything you think.
00:28:47.540So why, Dan, do you think is it unwise to say, like, I can't vote for Trump because there are definitely policies I don't like.
00:28:56.320There's definitely things that I would disagree with him.
00:28:59.620But just to write it off and say, like, no, I won't vote for anybody, that sort of mindset.
00:29:04.820Well, yeah, I mean, like you have with all antinomian, pietistic, leaning Christians, is that you have impotence really on all levels of life, even evangelism or missions or the churches they produce or even the long term trajectory of their families.0.99
00:29:25.020Generally speaking, I'm sure there are exceptions, but you really do when you don't apply the0.99
00:29:31.380wisdom of the law and the Proverbs well to real life where your theology actually touches
00:29:39.240the ground, you're going to be impotent.
00:29:41.540You're not going to really produce much fruit at all because in a large part, what it means
00:29:46.720is that you don't have a category in which to view the real world.
00:29:51.920You only have this pie in the sky, utopianistic sort of way of looking at the world.
00:29:58.900And so anything less than your utopian ideals won't actually function because you have no
00:30:05.100way to apply wisdom in the real world.
00:30:09.480And so it makes existing in the real world impossible because everything has to be narrowed
00:30:17.820And when I say impotent, I mean like these people can't, they're good for nothing.
00:30:21.620they're still image bearers don't be wrong but they as far as actually like doing something
00:30:27.040there's one thing that they're really good at and that's fussing they're really good at fussing
00:30:33.180but it it's it's like a blinder that goes over over the eyes they cannot see what is happening
00:30:40.400in the real world it just doesn't make sense to them they don't have a category for it which is
00:30:45.280part of the reason why you see so many category errors committed on twitter when you start talking
00:30:50.300about the political realm and you're you're looking at guys like trump and here we are like
00:30:55.160we're mega maxing you know or whatever you know and and they just see it as like oh he's you know
00:31:01.080he's not really pro-life you know he's not an abolitionist and so therefore that's an automatic
00:31:07.660non-starter when it seems like it seems like at the end of the day what they say is the game isn't
00:31:13.400pure enough for me yeah so i'm not gonna i'm just not gonna i'm not gonna dirty my hands
00:31:17.480But I think, correct me if I'm wrong, Brian, but part of it is we have to say we have to deal with imperfect people, leverage our voice where we can, build coalition, and then try to accomplish some things.
00:31:29.600Knowing that, hey, look, I watched the RNC too, especially the beginning.
00:31:35.440And I was like, this is an abomination.1.00
00:31:55.260No, there were also more, there were very, there were more overt displays of Christian culture and doctrine and things like that than a lot of other RNCs as well.
00:32:06.080So you had kind of both. It was almost a perfect description of the point. We're at this inflection point where you have this the GOP as it has been shaped by both Trumpism and that old guard.
00:32:19.000So it's a mix. It's a mix. And Trumpism, we have to be totally honest about this.
00:32:24.580Populism. It's populism. And Trump is not super principled when it comes to the pro-life issue.
00:32:30.660Of course, of course, he's not like or and he's definitely not when it comes to the gay issue or the LGBTQ agenda.
00:32:37.860Although that one was interesting, because if I if I'm not mistaken, that one was shockingly absent from the stage.0.80
00:32:43.920Yeah, I'm trying to think of some counter.
00:32:46.180Yeah, I mean, it was you have seen the celebration of the removal of like traditional marriage from the RNC planks, policy planks and platform planks.
00:38:29.360He legislated or he exercised the duties of his office to the right of his campaign,
00:38:36.700which is the opposite of what all those Bush people did.
00:38:39.600They ran to the right and governed to the left, to the center, which is totally worthless.
00:38:45.580So when I think about the abolitionists, they're right about a lot of the political failures where the pro-life establishment is just lying to you.
00:38:55.080It's a perpetual political football for fundraising.0.56
00:38:58.320Abolitionists, many of them take real political action.0.59
00:39:01.640A lot of like Dusty Deaver's campaign is a great example of this.
00:39:05.040Abolitionists are writing bills and introducing them.0.62
00:39:07.480They're involved in the political process.
00:39:08.920So I don't want abolitionists to hear me saying all of those critiques about not being involved at all in party in the political system.
00:39:17.620Quite a few of them actually do have a lot of skin in the game in terms of they're spending hours and days of their time meeting with senators, doing a lot of the stuff we're talking about.
00:39:29.500I don't agree with them on a lot of their conclusions on this front, but I actually think what's interesting is that a lot of the people are like, yeah, I am going to vote for Trump.
00:39:37.860I think the abolitionists are being kind of tismed out on this, like we need to understand
00:39:42.240the nature of political power and how this works.
00:39:45.100I do think a lot of us could actually take some training out of their book about their
00:39:51.360actual political involvement, which is pretty robust.
00:52:50.880Well, welcome to this episode of the King's Hall podcast. I'm your host for today's episode.
00:52:55.080Eric Kahn, and joined by a very special guest, Jeremy Carl. Jeremy, thanks so much for joining
00:53:00.300us on today's episode. Thanks so much, Eric. It's a real pleasure to be on.
00:53:04.080So, Jeremy, I'll jump right into this. We've had a number of crazy events this week. Of course,
00:53:08.140the attempted assassination of President Trump and a lot to kind of reflect on at this political
00:53:13.880moment in American history. But I just want to start with that, just get some of your thoughts
00:53:18.480as you're watching these events unfold. I know a lot of us were probably following guys like
00:53:23.740Tucker and Alex Jones. And they were saying things like there could be, you know, possible
00:53:27.440assassination attempts. We're at a really precarious spot. Yeah. I heard that and I was
00:53:32.680like, wow, that's bad. And then here we are last Saturday. Yeah. And that's the world we're living
00:53:37.460in. Fortunately, just grazes his ear. This bullet does. But but a really potentially disastrous
00:53:43.520situation for America. Yeah. And so I just want to get your overall thoughts. What were you
00:53:47.800first processing when you saw that go down? Yeah. I mean, it was really stunning. And I was
00:53:53.260actually on my way driving to a wedding of a guy kind of in right-wing spheres. And I actually got
00:53:59.460a call from a guy who ironically is a very good friend of J.D. Vance's. And he asked me whether
00:54:06.020I'd seen the news. And I said, no, no. But then I checked up on it. And I was obviously taken
00:54:13.560aback. And I was relieved the president was obviously okay, at least more or less. And
00:54:19.080And, you know, we came within a couple of inches, even let alone just, you know, let's leave aside the difference in quality of the president, presidential candidates, an assassination of Trump in the current circumstances that we have politically in this country.
00:54:36.000I think anything could have been on the table and it could have been a really horrifying thing, especially right before he even named a successor effectively.
00:54:43.700And so we really, no pun intended, America dodged a bullet just as much as President
00:56:06.300And so now suddenly the emperor's not wearing any clothes and all of the people who have been supporting this corrupt regime are sort of panicked because they realize the chances that a new sheriff is going to come in town.
00:56:17.440And it's, in fact, the sheriff that they have been trying to go after is looking increasingly likely.
00:56:23.660And so I think they're just ratcheting everything they're doing up to 11.
00:56:28.140And unfortunately, they're unstable people who respond to that.
00:56:33.240You know, part of it, too, I found really interesting because somewhere at the center of this, like everybody's watching video, it becomes really important, I think, that Elon Musk had bought Twitter.
00:56:44.000And so this election cycle is very, very different because now there's open access to information.
00:56:48.860Of course, you saw what the mainstream media was doing.
00:56:51.320And, you know, there's loud popping Trump falls, you know, all these these crazy headlines.
00:56:55.440Yeah. But it was also interesting because one of the things that comes up in the book is, you know, the DEI stuff, civil rights.
00:57:03.740And we have the Secret Service with, you know, ladies falling down, basically, you know, having a hard time doing their jobs in the moment.
00:57:11.860There's the video of the one lady at the car. She like she can't reholster her firearms.1.00
00:57:17.040So then she just kind of pretends to like keep it out. Yeah. And, you know, we're watching this.
00:57:21.100I'm like, oh, this is embarrassing. But this is kind of where societally, a lot of the policies
00:57:26.280that are actually from the 1960s and some prior, but this is where these policies have taken us.
00:57:31.380So I guess if you would just speak to that, maybe in this moment, people are starting to see like,
00:57:36.220this is going to get people killed. Yeah. I mean, obviously, my book focuses
00:57:40.160more on DEI about race, because that's the nature of the subject. But the sex related DEI
00:57:45.940is equally shocking. And even to me, who's pretty hardened and probably is not quite as hardcore on
00:57:52.360some of these gender issues as you are, it never even occurred to me that we could have female0.61
00:57:58.360Secret Service agents. And I don't even say that out of disrespect to that. I'm sure that0.54
00:58:02.960disproportionately, the women who want to do that sort of thing, they're patriotic, they want to do0.75
00:58:07.460well, they're probably very accomplished. Even compared to the average guy, they might be very0.91
00:58:12.000accomplished. But we don't want – we're not comparing for the average guy. The Secret Service
00:58:16.940should be all men and it should be the few thousand of the most hardcore ex-military
00:58:23.360combat guys who are going to take a bullet for the president, who are going to be able to take
00:58:27.260down an assailant physically. And the notion that we could even be thinking about diversity and
00:58:33.060inclusion and 30% female quotas, it's insane. And I kind of hope that in looking at just0.95
00:58:40.920the fact that we're risking a president over these sorts of things will make us relook.0.77
00:58:46.460But we should also be looking at women in the vast majority of frontline combat roles,0.99
00:58:51.160women in the vast majority of police patrol roles. Again, I think there may be some specific
00:58:58.220things where you could maybe argue, okay, well, you could have them there. But it's just we've
00:59:02.140gone insane with some of this erasing of distinctions between sexes. And I think the
00:59:08.500The Secret Service just shows how deadly this could have been.
00:59:33.740through the institutions. Trump 2.0 will be an order of magnitude more effective. So some of
00:59:41.100this, I'm assuming that he's referring to would be like, okay, Elon Musk, you know, the day of
00:59:46.560the assassination attempt, I think he comes out in support of Trump. Okay. So now you've got
00:59:50.680somebody obviously with a lot of money. We now have this platform where we can share information,
00:59:54.900not get banned, whatever, but there's been a lot of other guys too. I mean, Tucker would probably
00:59:58.700be on that list. A lot of people, I think now we're talking about issues that a few years ago
01:00:04.360would have been, you know, third rail, you're going to get zapped. Now you're allowed to have
01:00:08.580the conversation. A lot of people are willing to have it. Yeah. I guess just talk to this trajectory
01:00:13.200of, you know, is it because the oligarchy has failed and so people are just saying I've had
01:00:18.340enough? Yeah. What's going on with this shift? Well, I think I wrote a piece is actually one
01:00:24.200of the most popular pieces I've ever written for the American conservative. You might want to link
01:00:27.200to in the show notes a few years ago called Toward a Republican Counter-Elite. And it was
01:00:31.620exactly toward this point. And Chris may even be borrowing some of my verbiage here, although
01:00:37.260I'm not saying for sure. And Chris has been a big supporter of my book. But yeah, I think that we're
01:00:42.940seeing a group particularly of talented, and I'll tell you disproportionately, although certainly
01:00:48.080not exclusively, white men who've been left behind by this oligarchical, feminized, racialized,
01:00:55.460anti-white structure. And they're realizing they don't have anywhere to go. And so they're
01:00:59.260beginning to form their own coalitions. And I think one of the things to me that was very
01:01:04.860exciting about the J.D. Vance announcement, and I know I've met him a few times. I wouldn't say
01:01:10.340that I know him, but we have lots of... I mean, I have lots of friends who do know J.D. quite well.
01:01:15.780And that says something. And I know his staff quite well. And that also says something. I mean,
01:01:19.920that's not something I would say about most senators, right? I think it says something
01:01:23.840about where he is on a lot of this stuff, is that he has the perfect type of pedigree and networks
01:01:30.120to begin building that sort of thing, working under President Trump. You know, President Trump
01:01:35.640kind of deputizes him to go after the deep state on my behalf. And he can bring in some of these
01:01:41.820really talented guys because they're in his network. And while I don't certainly have any
01:01:45.660proof of this, this is all circumstantial, but I don't think that it's any coincidence personally
01:01:50.000that right after Vance has been announced, and by the way, Musk had been in Trump's ear saying,
01:01:55.020you know, Vance is the guy. And I think, to be clear, I mean, I think Trump had always wanted
01:02:00.960to pick Vance. This is always what I'd heard from people close to the president. But I don't think
01:02:05.180it's any coincidence that right after then, he comes in with $45 million a month. And I think
01:02:11.280it's indicative. And then you get Marky Andreessen and Horowitz, who are these really high-powered
01:02:15.460venture capitalists. They come in and they say, we're going to contribute millions to these
01:02:19.640super PAC. So you see these elite networks that really are very, very high human capital that
01:02:26.100know a lot of the folks who are smart, who know how to move things, the sort of people who sometimes
01:02:30.700we have trouble getting in in Trump one to really engage with us. I think it's a really, really
01:02:35.740encouraging sign that they're beginning to move on Trump too. And I think J.D. Vance really helps
01:02:42.980in that regard, which is one of the reasons I'm very enthusiastic about him as a pick.
01:02:45.880Yeah, it's interesting because the article you referenced on the American conservative course, I think from looks like 2022, the lead image that they've got on there is J.D. Vance.
01:02:56.820That's awesome. I can't take any credit for that.
01:03:00.280But you've got some predictive powers here, maybe. I don't know.
01:03:58.700I'd written very frankly, and I wasn't writing under some weird groiper pseudonym on Twitter.
01:04:04.880I was writing under my name as a fellow at the Hoover Institution.0.87
01:04:07.940So it's not that I was apologizing for any of this.
01:04:10.380But then when I went into the Trump administration in a fairly senior role, even though my work had absolutely nothing to do with any of this, suddenly the left and the Washington Post and the Huffington Post and all these guys took a great deal of interest in my writing.
01:04:24.280And then I was denounced by various leftist congressmen.
01:04:27.040And, you know, fortunately, the administration stood completely by me as they should have.
01:04:30.920But I give them credit for doing that because I think maybe previous Republican administrations might have quaked in the face of that.
01:04:37.080But I think that was the point that I realized, hey, this is such a critical issue, and we're not going to be able to run away from it. And maybe I'm really the person who is in a position to write this book. I have the knowledge to write this book, and I have enough of a platform to write this book.
01:04:53.160And so a couple of years ago, I sat down to do just that.
01:04:56.560But even at the time I was doing it, I was sort of like, whoa, I'm kind of on the tightrope
01:05:14.340It's still difficult to have this conversation in a lot of circles.
01:05:17.700But I was able to get the right sort of people behind the book who had real credibility within the conservative movement, guys like Tucker, Charlie Kirk, Victor Davis Hanson, people who had – that would say this is not – I think my own background, this is not some crank, this is not some white nationalist, this is not some guy who's just out with an axe to grind.
01:05:41.060he's coming up with a very serious argument. And so I think that that ultimately helped.
01:05:45.080And I think one of the gratifying thing is in almost three months since the book came out now,
01:05:49.380I mean, I've seen the window move even further. And in fact, I was just in Congress and I had
01:05:54.880a breakfast with 17 congressmen to discuss this book. And I think even a few years ago,
01:05:59.580that would have just been unthinkable. Do you think the shift in conversation
01:06:03.220is tied to political events the last couple of years? It has, you know, the civil rights
01:06:09.100era constitution? Has it run its course? What's bringing about the change?
01:06:13.960Yeah. So I always say that, because this is a good question, the kind of white pill and black0.99
01:06:19.360pill, to use the online term, the sort of encouraging thing is that we're having the
01:06:23.160conversation. And I think the discouraging thing is that part of the reason we're having the
01:06:27.240conversation is that the situation has just gotten desperate. I mean, it got to the point,
01:06:32.160I dedicate it to this book to my kids. I've got five kids. And it just got to the point that for
01:06:39.020younger white people, this is like, I was able to kind of dance around it. I had some talent,0.54
01:06:44.440I had some networks, I was in a previous generation, I was able to maneuver. In this
01:06:49.200generation, there is no more maneuvering. And so people are like, you know what, we just need to
01:06:52.540have this conversation, because there's no more getting around it. So I think that's part of the
01:06:57.520reason that it's come up, unfortunately, is that the situation has gotten more dire. But the good
01:07:01.820news is, the more we talk about it, then the more we can begin to really actually make some progress
01:07:07.100on the issue. Yeah. Yeah. I think that's, that's right. I want to go back to the 1960s, uh, civil
01:07:12.480rights, I guess, just walk me through legally what was going on and how that reshaped obviously the
01:07:19.260view of the constitution, but also what America would become and like, you know, what bureaucracies
01:07:24.740would be pushing. So civil rights legislation and era, why was that so significant? Yeah. So the,
01:07:30.920the main thing is the civil rights act of 1964 and that gets it, uh, going. And I actually have
01:07:36.140to say that as much as my book is probably radical in some ways, I'm actually a little bit
01:07:41.080more dovish than guys like Caldwell and Hanania. Although Caldwell's hawkishness is kind of...
01:07:46.860He's a wonderful writer. And so he's good at disguising exactly where he sits on some of this.
01:07:52.520But I think he... I'm more sympathetic to the environment in which this came in.
01:07:57.280And I always say when I'm talking to audiences, the Civil Rights Act was responding. It wasn't
01:08:02.340that we were in racial nirvana in the early 1960s, and then the Civil Rights Act just wrecked it,
01:08:07.820right? It was responding to real problems that we had, even though we were making progress as
01:08:11.900a country even before the act. And I think it was a blunt instrument to address those problems.
01:08:17.300It did solve some of them. But I think the point is, over the long term, especially as the deep
01:08:23.620state has added on to it, and the Supreme Court has added on to it over decades, and we've had
01:08:28.040follow on civil rights acts, it's become a much bigger problem than the problem that it originally
01:08:33.360intended to solve. So while I don't think it's necessarily the most productive use of conservatives
01:08:38.040time to kind of relitigate the 1964 act, I think we just need to say, look, that's 60 years ago.
01:08:44.920Now, social conditions are very different. Our problems are very different. And we need to
01:08:48.600fundamentally relook at and reimagine these laws and some pretty important ways to respond to the
01:08:54.300actual problems we have today. Yeah. It's interesting. You quote early on in the book,
01:08:58.340this is from somebody else. I think it was from one of the court cases, if I'm not mistaken,
01:09:03.800but the gentleman said, we're demonizing white people simply for being born.
01:09:07.920Yeah. This is actually early on. This is actually the case of some elite New York private schools,
01:09:14.840and we were just talking about elites. And so I think it's sort of indicative of what's going on
01:09:18.840in these environments. So these things, if you're not in that world, and I never have been personally,
01:09:23.420but I went to Yale and I knew people who were in this kind of world. It's almost sort of a hard
01:09:27.880world to believe if you haven't participated in it. So these are kind of very wealthy families
01:09:33.100that are paying $60,000 a year plus in tuition. There's not even a boarding school, right? Just
01:09:39.460for a regular private school for their kids to go, but they're training the future financial
01:09:46.100elites and other elites. And I'm not even saying that in the sense that their talents are necessarily
01:09:50.500elite, but just in terms of their standing in society. And what you had there was these places
01:09:56.000have gone so deeply into anti-whiteness, particularly in the wake of George Floyd,
01:10:00.500that you have this quote about people apologizing for white people for even being born.
01:10:06.400That just seems like a really dangerous place for us to be. And it's also not a sustainable
01:10:11.380place for us to be because why as a white parent would I pay $65,000 a year for somebody to tell
01:10:18.220my kid that he or she should hate themselves. Yeah, exactly. And I forget the name of the0.67
01:10:22.960case. But early on, you're talking about where the was it Berkeley, where he was trying to get
01:10:27.900into Berkeley. Yes. And he ends up filing suit. Yes. Well, this is this is it's actually Eric
01:10:33.160Bakke, UC Davis. Yeah. And this is the case that was just overturned by the Supreme Court.
01:10:38.320And it's kind of an amazing case. And I go into the details of it in the book. But but basically
01:10:44.720the guy who's later held up as the sort of exemplar of why affirmative action is so wonderful
01:10:51.120and who takes Bakke's place in the medical school originally turns out to be a totally
01:10:56.620incompetent doctor who kills one of his patients and has his license removed and all these other
01:11:03.520things. Whereas Bakke goes on, is eventually admitted to the med school after the Supreme
01:11:07.660Court case and goes on to a career at the Mayo Clinic, which is a very highly respected medical
01:11:13.280center. But it's really it's just kind of a shocking exemplar of just how radical and damaging
01:11:19.960affirmative action can be. Yeah. And in particular, later you get into, you know, even with Supreme0.95
01:11:24.640Court justices and like when you say something like, well, you know, pretty much at all costs,
01:11:28.560we're going to make sure we have a black Supreme Court justice. Right. And yet you look at they're0.96
01:11:33.080actually overrepresented in a lot of the federal judge positions and appointees. Sure. And when you
01:11:38.700look at you know where people are scoring uh it has real ramifications right i think there was i
01:11:44.380can't remember which one it was in there but like they couldn't recite what was the second and the
01:11:48.880fourth amendment or something like this yeah so it's like that's probably a big issue yeah no it's
01:11:54.540it's shocking and and one of the things that tucker picked up on that was some original research i did
01:11:58.780is i shared that in the first two years of the biden administration of his federal judicial
01:12:03.100appointments of which he had 97, there were 22 African-American women and just five white men.
01:12:09.360And if you look at any objective, I mean, let alone just the numbers of the population, right?
01:12:13.920But just any objective measure of legal competence, you would not... I mean, that ratio is so out of
01:12:22.560whack. Even reversing it, if you had five African-American women and 22 white men,0.63
01:12:26.800it would still be disproportionately compared to qualifications advantaging African-American women.
01:12:33.780So Biden has basically given us this affirmative action judiciary. And these judges, of course,
01:12:41.280don't feel at all constrained by the law, ultimately, at the end of the day.
01:12:44.660Yeah. So one of the questions that arises, obviously, we've got affirmative action.
01:12:47.960We've got the way that it impacts the court systems. For my early, when I was in my 20s,
01:12:53.540let's say teenage 20s, you're in college, you're going through a lot of life situations.
01:12:57.780You got things like Michael Brown, you know, the Trayvon Martin case was obviously, you know,
01:13:03.120kind of the beginning of Black Lives Matter and all this. It becomes societally very important.
01:13:07.340Later, we get to George Floyd. I didn't realize the ways in which this was all part of the game
01:13:12.660to, you know, use the courts, make big theater out of it, weaponize it, and then start pushing
01:13:18.960an agenda so i guess for people who are unfamiliar with that what is that tactic that's being run
01:13:24.720and why are certain cases as you point out in the book it's like you know this will probably be the
01:13:29.400case with the trump attempted assassination uh gentleman trump supporter dies and there's
01:13:36.660probably not going to be a george floyd after this yeah right it's not going to erupt in rioting in
01:13:41.020the streets so so why is it important like i guess just walk me through that narrative situation with
01:13:46.020court cases and why they're being weaponized the way they are? Yeah, well, I think this is a thing
01:13:50.740where you could really just heavily blame the media. I mean, they're really kind of the villains
01:13:54.900here because the statistics on interracial crime and other things like that are just really clear.1.00
01:14:01.000The statistics on, for example, the number of unarmed African-American men who were killed
01:14:05.440by police each year is really clear. It's 15 or less, usually, and not the thousands that when
01:14:12.560you survey the left. But the left uses these sorts of rare cases. And in fact, almost invariably,
01:14:20.160they're not even cases where there was actual significant police wrongdoing, but it's just
01:14:25.160wherever they feel like they can make a political case. That's what they do. And they do it to rile
01:14:31.100up their side and demoralize our side. And way too many folks on our side fall for it. And that's
01:14:37.220why you have the disgraceful spectacle of Mitt Romney kind of marching in a Black Lives Matter
01:14:42.560rally with his mask on. And all I can say is, thank God that we have removed that sort of0.99
01:14:50.980leadership, at least from the top of the Republican Party under folks like Trump and Vance. But
01:14:56.620we still have it. We still have a kind of self-defeating mindset among white Americans
01:15:02.380where we sort of implicitly feel like we deserve this in some way. I mean, not me, but that's very0.55
01:15:08.200prevalent. And, you know, it's really discouraging, obviously. Yeah. My other question with it is
01:15:14.200we had Stephen Wolf speaking at our conference. I think the language he used was something like
01:15:18.760whites have become their own in-groups, out-group, like the only group that you can't
01:15:23.520preference is white people. Right. And what I've found is it's actually really hard because I'm0.95
01:15:29.480listening to him talk, I've heard this discussed before. And there was like a discomfort where I'm
01:15:35.960looking around the room and I'm thinking, I know a lot of these people agree, but are we really
01:15:40.700allowed to talk about this? Yeah. So in the psyche of white men, particularly, how do you,
01:15:47.580how do you undo, you know, whether it's been the indoctrination in schools or the legal system,
01:15:53.700how do you undo, you know, multiple decades of being framed in that way of thinking?
01:16:00.180It's hard. I mean, I'm not going to lie to you. Even me talking about my book at first,
01:16:04.620I just remember, except among like the most ideologically aligned friends,
01:16:10.320or even today, I mean, I'm now like pretty comfortable about it. But still, if it's just
01:16:14.320like a totally random person, and I have no idea of their social and political views,
01:16:18.000I definitely have to do a bunch of, you know, hand waving and disclaiming before I'll even say,
01:16:22.560hey, oh, you know, what is that? You wrote a book? What's the book about?
01:22:13.760And I'm actually, I'm not an expert on every subject that I wrote about, but this is immigration
01:22:18.000is a subject I am expert on. I've written a lot about, been very involved with. So I kind of walk
01:22:22.840through our immigration history as a country in great detail and why we were never a quote-unquote
01:22:27.240nation of immigrants. But Hartzeller is this radical transformation in 1965. So before then,
01:22:32.820those sorts of things that you're saying about speaking our language and everything else and
01:22:36.240being of the same culture and general ethnic background even would just have been taken
01:22:39.960for granted. After Hartzeller, it begins to get more mixed. But it's really only in the last few
01:22:45.800years that the Democrats have become so radical. And in fact, my friends at the Center for
01:22:50.500Immigration Studies, which is probably the best think tank on the right, kind of working on
01:22:55.040immigration issues, for a long time have pushed the Jordan Commission on Immigration. The Jordan
01:23:02.000Commission on Immigration came out of the Clinton administration. It was chaired by an African
01:23:07.980American lesbian civil rights leader turned congresswoman named Barbara Jordan, who was0.99
01:23:12.140kind of very famous on the left. It came out with a bunch of recommendations
01:23:15.620for what we should do on immigration. And it's not like a wishlist of right-wing stuff by today's
01:23:22.800standards, but it's filled with totally solid, reasonable sorts of immigration proposals that
01:23:30.440everybody should be able to get behind. And the point was that this was somebody that a leftist
01:23:35.500African-American civil rights leader could put her name on and lead a commission on in the mid
01:23:41.4401990s and have the Democrats be generally just fine with that. And now we have kind of the
01:23:47.580hardest score restrictionist organizations basically saying, yeah, that's what we want.
01:23:52.480And the left, of course, not even considering doing anything other than funding the invasion
01:23:57.720of America. Yeah. So in terms of motivation, I mean, some of it seems clear, right? If you can
01:24:04.040dilute a population, their culture, their beliefs. You import the third world. Certainly,1.00
01:24:10.380you have more Democrat voters. Is there more to it than that? Or is it that simple?
01:24:16.100I think that that's simple. I mean, I don't doubt that if suddenly 90% of these guys
01:24:20.740ended up taking the R box, that our politics around this would invert. But that having said,
01:24:27.560even if they did check the R box, we'd still have a lot of the same problems.
01:24:31.160And that's why, again, I don't do this. I actually don't bash immigrants at all. I understand why I've traveled all over the world. I've lived in developing world countries. I understand why people want to come here. I don't think that most of them are murderers and rapists or anything like that. I think they want a good life for their family. I think they want to contribute, etc.
01:24:49.360You know, it's not that they're they're bad people at all. But I would say two things. One, it doesn't at the end of the day matter what they want. It matters what's in America's interest. This is something that again, Senator Vance has been very good. Vance, who's married to a child of Indian immigrants, but is very good at kind of saying repeatedly in immigration discussions.
01:25:12.300So A, I mean, it's about what the US national interest is.0.87
01:25:15.960Secondly, diversity just is not a strength, period.
01:25:19.660This is something we need to push back on without apology.0.98
01:25:22.600And again, it doesn't matter whether that diverse group of people who we might be bringing
01:25:26.060in is a wonderful group of people with high human capital.
01:25:30.140There are problems created by diversity itself, no matter how wonderful the diverse communities
01:25:39.020And we need to deal with those problems.
01:25:40.440And we need to somehow figure out a way to unify what's becoming this increasingly fractious, hyperdiverse country. And again, not to apologize for that. And I say that we do have to deal with this. We're not going to go back to a world of pre-heart seller where everybody was white. So we're going to have to kind of figure out what a new American identity looks like in a multicultural country.
01:26:02.420But the only way that we can come up with that in a way that's sane and doesn't have everybody to everybody else's throats is to close the border, deport every single illegal who's here and just get some space to breathe and to reconstitute what that new American culture that we can unify behind is going to look like.
01:26:21.840Yeah. So that's a big, you know, it's been interesting the last couple of years. You have a lot of people saying, well, you can't deport everyone. It's too hard. It's too much money. It's too complicated. We can't afford a border wall. Right. And then you see how much money is spent in Ukraine. Sure. Do you think it's just it's just not important is why it's not happening?
01:26:39.780Yeah, I think it's not important. I mean, there's a lot of people. I mean, there's a lot of people in our party who really do want to do something about it. And then there's a minority, but it's a meaningful minority politically that are just Chamber of Commerce clones who their donors are telling them, you know, we want cheap labor and whatever. And if you do this, it's going to wreck the economy. And by the way, I mean, this isn't true, but yeah, that's kind of unfortunately where we are. It's just not as big a priority.
01:27:08.960By the way, our stated goal should be to deport every single illegal, but there's a variety of different ways that you're going to do that. The most effective is which is going to be employment crackdowns and things like that that really do encourage people to self-deport.
01:27:23.940Because unfortunately, we're just in a situation, even just let's leave aside the logistics. We have enough bleeding hard voters, I don't know how to say it in any more polite way, who just they're going to see some bad image on the screen of, you know, some family being deported, and they're going to be upset about it.
01:27:42.860I don't care whether they say they're for deportation or not.
01:27:46.520Now, that doesn't mean we shouldn't deport people.
01:27:48.140We should, but we have to be realistic about the number of people we're going to really
01:27:54.040be able to use that technique with versus using other techniques that essentially make
01:28:00.260them realize they don't have a home here, there's no future for them here, and they
01:29:51.400And then you need to combine that with the hardest thing, which is to change some of
01:29:54.880these laws in some pretty fundamental ways in the civil rights regime.
01:29:58.900And the blowback to that is going to be ferocious, but I don't think we really solve this problem until we have some pretty fundamental reforms there.
01:30:09.680One of the, I guess, you know, pieces of feedback I'd heard from people around the Beltway was, you know, Trump administration, number one, hard to find loyal people.