The Matt Walsh Show - November 11, 2023


An Update On The Fight Against Gender Madness With Miriam Grossman

Hosted by
Matt Walsh
Mentioned
Matt Miriam Grossman MD Michael Voris Levine
Matt Walsh Reacts To Male Feminist TikToks Ep. 1261 - Our Cities Donโ€™t Have To Be Crime-Infested Wastelands. The Solution Is Simple.

Episode Stats


Length

27 minutes

Words per minute

144.71

Word count

3,948

Sentence count

240

Harmful content

Misogyny

4

sentences flagged

Toxicity

1

sentences flagged

Hate speech

11

sentences flagged


Summary

Summaries generated with gmurro/bart-large-finetuned-filtered-spotify-podcast-summ .

Dr. Miriam Grossman is a child and adolescent psychiatrist who has written a new book, Lost in Trans Nation: A Child Psychiatrist's Guide Out of Madness. She is also the star of the documentary, What is a Woman? and has been involved in the fight against gender dysphoria for decades. Dr. Grossman joins Dr. Kelly on the show to discuss her new book and to discuss the recent lawsuit against the American Academy of Pediatrics.

Transcript

Transcript generated with Whisper (turbo).
Misogyny classifications generated with MilaNLProc/bert-base-uncased-ear-misogyny .
Toxicity classifications generated with s-nlp/roberta_toxicity_classifier .
Hate speech classifications generated with facebook/roberta-hate-speech-dynabench-r4-target .
Hosts, guests, and mentioned names generated with spaCy (en_core_web_sm), reconciled against Wikidata.
00:00:00.000 Parents need to understand that while we certainly hope that our schools, our teachers, our principals, guidance counselors are all wonderful people who only want the best for their students, we have to live in reality and recognize that while some of them do have an agenda and that may not be healthy for our children.
00:00:21.760 Dr. Miriam Grossman, child and adolescent psychiatrist, also one of the stars of our film, What is a Woman? She now has a new book out, excellent, important book, called Lost in Trans Nation, A Child Psychiatrist's Guide Out of Madness. Dr. Grossman, thanks for taking the time.
00:00:36.720 Thank you so much for having me and thank you for all you do, Matt, in this space. I was just this morning enjoying some of the, you know, some of your posts on X and some of the other things you've done and I really appreciate it. You're one of the leaders.
00:00:54.140 Well, I appreciate that and I appreciate you as well. You know, you have a real important, insightful perspective on all the gender madness. I'm curious about one thing. What did you think was kind of, or what do you think is missing from the conversation around this issue or what point is not being emphasized enough or well enough understood that prompted you to, for example, to write the book? 0.91
00:01:22.740 Well, you know, I want to start with some good news because I'm always presenting very disturbing information and I will certainly answer your question, but I want to tell you, Matt, you may not be aware that our favorite pediatrician, Dr. Michelle Forcier is being sued.
00:01:44.020 And if there's any of your audience who are not aware who she is, she is the infamous blue haired pediatrician who posed that question to you. Do chickens commit suicide in your documentary? What is a woman? Dr. Forcier is being sued finally by one of her patients who detransitioned.
00:02:09.220 And apparently this young woman was extremely mentally ill and had all sorts of psychiatric issues. And I have to say, the lawyers are jumping on these cases and I'm so happy to see it after all these years.
00:02:24.720 Yeah, that's the chicken lady, as we have come to call her. You're exactly right. And do you think that this is the beginning of kind of the floodgates opening? We've all been sort of waiting for this, that this was always the next step in the fight for team sanity was that we start holding these doctors accountable.
00:02:44.780 So do you think that there's evidence that this is like the beginning of, this is just the tip of the iceberg?
00:02:50.780 Yes, absolutely. And it's not only the individual doctors that are being sued. The American Academy of Pediatrics is also named as a defendant.
00:03:04.480 So this is fantastic. Because the American Academy of Pediatrics that claims that they represent 67,000 pediatricians has been for many, many years completely captured by this ideology.
00:03:21.520 And the way that it happened is that a small group of activists from within that organization simply took over this particular subject and started writing policy statements and articles and guidance for other doctors and for parents.
00:03:42.380 And none of it is evidence-based. They claim that it's evidence-based. It is not. It is a belief system. It's a belief system that's based on the irrational, unscientific idea that we are not, that our identities are completely separate from our bodies.
00:04:06.880 That we are not. We are not, pubic Braๆžœ, unification that we carry on its own minds, that we call this idea to know our identity.
00:04:08.000 That we can be born in the wrong body, and that that is not an emotional problem. That's a physical problem and you need to modify the body to fit the feelings.
00:04:19.520 These are irrational ideas. These would not fly in any other field of medicine.
00:04:27.320 So yes, this is very big. I think the tide is definitely turning. There's been a lot of successful legislation.
00:04:35.920 And now these lawsuits are beginning, like I said, not only against the pediatricians and the therapists and the endocrinologists and the surgeons, but also against the medical organizations.
00:04:50.720 So this is good. Very good.
00:04:53.740 It's definitely very good.
00:04:54.680 And I know you're not a lawyer, of course, but do you, and I always err on the side of being somewhat cynical about these things.
00:05:01.440 So my worry is that obviously the victims that are following these lawsuits should win easily and they should win many millions of dollars.
00:05:11.900 But you worry about the courts just being ideologically stacked against them.
00:05:16.080 So do you feel good about the chances of this particular lawsuit of having success, given that problem?
00:05:22.560 Well, you know, you're correct to bring up, you know, who's going to, who's the judge, who are the attorneys, you know, if there's a jury, who's on the jury.
00:05:35.420 But then my experience testifying in court has been very positive, actually.
00:05:41.280 And when you get a judge who is, you know, middle of the road, open, wants to learn, someone who wants to learn and to hear both sides, then definitely, you know, there can be a success at the end of it.
00:06:03.040 But you're right, it does, it is going to depend a lot on the judges.
00:06:07.660 But I'm still hopeful because it's certainly better than nothing.
00:06:11.420 And, you know, we'll get the media coverage and we'll get more and more young people who went through affirming care will have the courage and the motivation to stand up and talk.
00:06:25.700 I'm curious about your general assessment of, I guess we've already kind of got into this, but your general assessment of the battle as it stands right now.
00:06:37.160 Are you, you know, we talked about the lawsuits, the success with legislation, but culturally speaking, do you feel like we're making a lot of progress there?
00:06:50.040 I actually do. I feel like, you know, even aside from legislation and now we've got what's going on with litigation, which is really important.
00:06:56.120 But it seems to me that culturally is where we can really see the victory even more because it seems as though people are willing to speak out against this much more than they were back when we first started filming the movie back in 2021, for example.
00:07:12.820 So do you sense that as well?
00:07:14.320 Yeah, I do agree with you. The thing is, look, this is a battle that the truth is going to win.
00:07:23.560 The question is how many, you know, what's the body count going to be?
00:07:29.400 And the body count from where I'm sitting is very high because it's not just the kids who end up, you know,
00:07:38.500 medicalized and forever disfigured and some of them are going to be sterile and not capable of having biological children.
00:07:49.560 But you see the families, the families are also victims, the parents and the siblings and the extended family.
00:07:57.320 Because, you know, this battle that that is created inside the home, when a child announces a a a new identity, an impossible identity, it can tear a family apart.
00:08:14.720 It can end marriages. Sometimes the child is so indoctrinated that they believe anyone that is hesitant or has questions or wants to be cautious is the enemy and that their homes are toxic.
00:08:31.860 They run away. There are websites. I talk about this in my book.
00:08:36.180 There are websites run by activists who are advising kids on how to run away, where to run to.
00:08:45.860 They provide them with financial help.
00:08:49.860 They tell them, you know, call this number or text this number and we'll come pick you up and take you to a friendly home, a home where they will affirm you.
00:09:02.060 So there's a lot of terrible things going on, a lot of families in which these kids become estranged, terrible pain and mourning that parents go through.
00:09:19.100 So, yes, there is progress.
00:09:22.000 But at the same time, there's a lot of victims and there's a body count.
00:09:26.220 Absolutely. You mentioned you talked about families and kids that get that fall into this through no fault of the parents.
00:09:33.860 So I want to ask you about that on a kind of on a more personal and practical level, because I hear from parents all the time who either have kids who fall victim to this or they're worried that their kids will potentially fall victim to it.
00:09:45.580 You, of course, have talked to many more parents than me on this issue.
00:09:48.040 So I want to take both of those cases individually.
00:09:50.740 So, first of all, would you say are some basic steps a parent can take proactively, especially if their kids are in public school or something, and they want to make sure they want to inoculate their kids as best they can against falling into this?
00:10:05.920 That's my book is an inoculation.
00:10:09.060 I want parents to start really early.
00:10:11.340 I mean, as soon as your kid is talking and kind of understands boy, girl, you know, that identity, it's not too early to say things like, you know, you've been a boy since the very first moment that you existed.
00:10:29.380 When you first started growing in your mother's tummy or however you want to say it inside your mommy, your your mother, you were a boy that it doesn't depend on some random midwife or doctor who's in the delivery room.
00:10:46.240 I want kids when they first hear that phrase sex assigned at birth. 0.99
00:10:53.060 I want kids, even little kids to to stop and say, no, no, that's not right.
00:10:59.380 Sex is not assigned at birth.
00:11:02.060 It might be recognized at birth, although now we recognize it way earlier.
00:11:07.960 It's established and it's established permanently at conception.
00:11:14.060 So you can begin early on with kids and you can say to them things like, you know, you were always a boy or a girl and that's great.
00:11:23.160 And there isn't only one way to be a boy or a girl.
00:11:26.440 There are many infinite ways of being boys, girls, men and women and anyone that might come along and say, oh, you're a girl and, you know, you're not into fashion, makeup.
00:11:39.800 You know, you're into playing soccer and, you know, you're I mean, all these regressive stereotypes.
00:11:47.780 Right. That's a bunch of baloney. 0.88
00:11:50.560 These stereotypes are a bunch of baloney.
00:11:54.640 And we have to tell our kids that you can be a girl or a boy in many different ways.
00:12:02.040 There's no just one way.
00:12:03.840 I also tell parents it's important that they themselves accept that their daughter may not be stereotypically feminine and their son may not be stereotypically masculine.
00:12:16.940 It may not be the kid that you expected.
00:12:20.580 Accept it.
00:12:21.960 Try very hard to accept that your kid and not only I mean, you have six kids, you know, all about raising kids.
00:12:30.840 They don't always end up the way that we were expecting.
00:12:35.620 But certainly when it comes to masculinity and femininity, you want to accept who they are and what their interests are and not necessarily, you know, push them in the direction that you think, well, boys, you know, have to be X, Y and Z.
00:12:53.820 So you can do all of that.
00:12:55.980 You also, of course, want to inoculate your child against so many of the ideas that are out there, not just the ideas about gender.
00:13:06.000 I mean, that's the topic of my book.
00:13:07.960 But there's so many ideas that activists are just waiting outside your door or inside the computer, inside the chat rooms.
00:13:18.380 And parents must get in control of their of their kids, Internet use.
00:13:24.500 One of the appendices in my book, I have seven appendices.
00:13:28.480 One of them is written by an IT expert and it instructs parents on all the different ways you need to get in control of your of your kids, Internet use.
00:13:38.720 If you're not in control of it and your kid is just wandering around on the Internet, trust me, there are plenty of groomers out there that are just eagerly waiting to influence your child.
00:13:52.700 And I've had one family after the next come to me and their child has been groomed into these beliefs of being the opposite sex on the Internet. 0.67
00:14:03.100 So that's one of the appendices. Another thing a family can do early on is put the school on notice.
00:14:12.540 And I have a entire chapter about schools.
00:14:16.540 Parents need to understand that while we certainly hope that our schools, our teachers, our principals, guidance counselors are all wonderful people who only want the best for their students.
00:14:28.940 We have to live in reality and recognize that while some of them do have an agenda and some of them do want to influence our kids and influence them in ways that we wouldn't necessarily agree with and that may not be healthy for our children.
00:14:47.180 So you want to put the school on notice.
00:14:50.640 And the way that you do that is you download a form.
00:14:54.320 I actually have it on my website.
00:14:56.340 My website is Miriam Grossman MD dot com.
00:15:00.540 When you land on the website, you see a form putting schools on notice.
00:15:06.220 You download it.
00:15:07.640 You print it out.
00:15:08.520 It's free.
00:15:09.840 You sign it and you give it to the principal of your school.
00:15:13.620 Your child may be in kindergarten.
00:15:15.780 It's never too early.
00:15:17.020 That form is saying to the school, our family does not go along, does not agree with gender ideology.
00:15:26.280 We do not give permission for our child to be exposed to any of those ideas, whether it's in the classroom, whether it's in a special assembly or meeting or a field trip to Planned Parenthood or a guest who's going to come and speak to the class.
00:15:47.020 An after school club, like a GSA club, one of those, we are prohibiting that.
00:15:55.840 We do not give our permission.
00:15:57.740 And we hold you responsible for any damage that may result.
00:16:04.160 We definitely do not give our permission, this form says, for our child to be what's called socially transitioned,
00:16:11.800 which means to use a different name for the child, to allow the child to use the opposite sex bathrooms, et cetera.
00:16:21.780 This is socially transitioning is not a benign process. 0.97
00:16:27.080 It has consequences.
00:16:29.740 And as far as we know, we don't have much research, but as far as we know, it solidifies the identity.
00:16:38.260 So whereas many of these kids, after a while, they grow out of the unhappiness, the dysphoria that they have with their physical sex,
00:16:50.900 if you, if you, and it makes sense, Matt, right?
00:16:54.380 It's just common sense.
00:16:56.120 If you agree with the child that their name is wrong and that their pronouns are wrong and that they need to live their lives as the opposite sex and use the opposite sex bathrooms, et cetera, 1.00
00:17:10.980 and everyone in their lives, all the adults, all the authorities are agreeing, then of course, it's going to solidify the child's belief.
00:17:23.300 And so I caution very strongly against any kind of social transition.
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00:18:26.640 We only have a couple minutes left, but there's something obviously related to this that I've been wanting to ask you, and I don't even know if this is exactly true or not, but the way, you know, but it's an interesting pattern that I think I've noticed, which is at the kind of different age ranges, which sex between male and female is more susceptible to this.
00:18:50.700 So we all kind of understand that among adolescent kids, girls are falling into this much more often than boys are.
00:18:57.540 It seems to me that younger than that, though, young kids, five, six, seven, most of the time when you hear about a young kid that age who's being, as you say, socially transitioned, usually it's a boy.
00:19:11.660 And then you go into adulthood and you look at the people who, as adults, start suddenly identifying as trans.
00:19:18.900 It seems like almost always, with rare exception, it's a man.
00:19:22.780 So I don't know.
00:19:25.160 Have you noticed that?
00:19:26.360 What do you make of that?
00:19:27.940 What do you make of, like, does the age range and the sex of the person make them more or less susceptible?
00:19:34.580 It's a very important distinction, and I go through all of this in my book.
00:19:39.940 Look, we've always known about the little kids, the Jazz Jennings, the little boys, who from an early age insist that they either are or have to become a girl.
00:19:52.080 And we've always known about the middle-aged men like Admiral Dr. Levine, who in their 40s or later decide that, you know, these are men who are heterosexual.
00:20:08.260 They have enjoyed cross-dressing and going into women's spaces.
00:20:13.940 They are sexually aroused by that.
00:20:15.900 And we've always known about them.
00:20:18.300 They also sometimes will decide to go through so-called sex reassignment.
00:20:24.640 But now there's an entirely new population of kids who are suddenly out of the blue without a history from childhood of wanting or being uncomfortable with their sex.
00:20:39.620 And these are a majority, although there's still a lot of boys.
00:20:44.260 I mean, my practice has essentially been 50 percent boys and girls.
00:20:48.680 But you're right.
00:20:50.100 In the research, we do see mostly girls.
00:20:53.840 Now, that that type of gender dysphoria is a social contagion. 1.00
00:20:59.700 It's very, very different than the little kids, the Jazz Jennings. 0.92
00:21:06.040 Jazz Jennings did not hear about the possibility that he was a girl from going online.
00:21:13.860 He didn't hear about it from his friends at school or from a guidance counselor.
00:21:18.980 OK, it was something internally going on in him that caused it.
00:21:23.220 We don't know exactly what, but if he had had the chance to go through normal puberty and he had not been medicalized at the age of 11, there was a very good chance that Jazz could have outgrown his dysphoria.
00:21:40.240 But yes, Matt, you're bringing up something very, very important.
00:21:44.420 What we're looking at now and everyone you see, it's being denied by the proponents of this.
00:21:51.300 But those of us who are on the side of hard science and hard evidence, those of us that are seeing these kids in our office know that it is a social contagion and it is fueled by the Internet, by social media, by friend groups.
00:22:13.200 What is a social contagion?
00:22:14.540 It's when ideas and behaviors and beliefs are spread within a friend group and it can be something benign like a haircut or, you know, a way of dressing.
00:22:29.360 Or it can be something that can be something that can be dangerous, like self-harming behaviors, eating disorders and gender dysphoria, which places kids on a path toward harm.
00:22:43.440 And look, I've had kids tell me I had a young woman in my office who told me that she never had any dysphoria, any unhappiness about her hips until one of her friends who's transgender identified started complaining about her hips. 0.88
00:23:03.720 I hate my hips, I hate my hips, they're so wide, they're so feminine, why can't I have narrow hips like a boy? 0.95
00:23:11.180 All of a sudden, my patient starts having dysphoria about her hips. 0.54
00:23:16.720 It is a social, and this is also why, Matt, a lot of kids who go into a psychiatric inpatient unit, they enter that unit not being trans.
00:23:34.100 They leave the unit a few weeks later, identifying as the opposite sex or non-binary or some other such nonsense term. 1.00
00:23:44.680 Because while in the hospital, in that psychiatric unit, so many of the kids, probably more than 50, 60% of kids now who are in inpatient psychiatric units for adolescents do have some sort of gender issue.
00:24:02.480 And so this is a big, I write a chapter in the book about the dilemma that a parent is in when they must place their child in one of these units because they are suicidal or they have some other acute emotional problem, but they don't want to do it.
00:24:20.160 Because not only are most of the kids suffering from gender dysphoria on that unit, and it will spread, but the staff on the unit, more often than not, they are proponents. 0.79
00:24:36.700 They are often activists.
00:24:38.160 They have been told by their professional organizations and by their hospital administration that the first thing you do when you meet a kid is you ask their name and pronouns, and you give them your name and pronouns.
00:24:53.060 I had a psychiatric nurse write to me, and she said, Dr. Grossman, I work with these kids on an inpatient psychiatric unit, and I just can't, I can't believe what we're doing.
00:25:07.400 We start off asking them their pronouns.
00:25:10.320 They're just arriving.
00:25:11.780 They made a suicide attempt.
00:25:13.480 They're being bandaged.
00:25:14.740 Their wrists are being bandaged.
00:25:16.800 And we're supposed to begin with, what are your pronouns?
00:25:20.340 What name should I be calling you?
00:25:22.080 And she ended up, she quit. 0.90
00:25:24.540 She just quit. 1.00
00:25:25.820 We have a big, big problem.
00:25:28.400 Yeah, that's, I guess, I'm not surprised to hear that, but on another level it is shocking that they would start with that level of indoctrination when a kid is that, could not possibly be more vulnerable.
00:25:41.460 Obviously, there's a lot more to talk about.
00:25:42.900 I wish we had more time to talk about it, but the good news is that your book, Lost in Transnation, Child Psychiatrist's Guide Out of Madness, can be purchased right now.
00:25:51.980 Anyone in, where all these ideas are fleshed out in even greater detail.
00:25:57.840 I want to mention also that I did the audio version.
00:26:01.460 I actually narrated the entire book, took 40 hours.
00:26:07.400 It was quite an experience.
00:26:09.620 So people are loving that.
00:26:11.840 So for people who don't want to sit down and read, and they're commuting, or they're busy in the house, or they're jogging, whatever, you can listen to it on audio.
00:26:22.000 Every family needs the information in my book.
00:26:24.840 Please, I'm begging you.
00:26:27.560 And the fact that you've narrated your own audio book, I actually, as an audio book snob myself, I always prefer for the author to read their own work.
00:26:34.360 So I'm glad that you did that, and that's also a great way to access this information as well.
00:26:40.860 Dr. Grossman, thanks so much for talking to us again.
00:26:43.020 We really appreciate it.
00:26:44.400 You're welcome, Matt.
00:26:46.080 Thanks for having me.
00:26:46.960 Thanks for having me.