The Matt Walsh Show - Daily Wire Backstage： One More for 2024

00:00:00.000 Hey, this is Matt Walsh, host of The Matt Walsh Show, and you're about to listen to our most recent episode of Backstage with me, Ben Shapiro, Michael Knowles, Andrew Klavan, Jeremy Boring.

00:00:07.580 We'll discuss everything from Jordan B. Peterson's new show, The Gospels, to Hunter Biden's pardon. You don't want to miss it. Stay tuned.

00:00:30.000 Welcome to Daily Wire Backstage. I'm Jeremy Boring, joined by Ben Shapiro, Andrew Klavan, Matt Walsh, and Michael Knowles.

00:00:41.840 We're in for a good conversation tonight because a lot's happened since the last time we were with you.

00:00:46.620 Of course, on that occasion, we were celebrating the victory of Donald Trump over that other guy, and that other guy was a woman.

00:00:54.600 I honest to goodness, I was thinking it was Joe Biden.

00:00:57.280 It was amazing. She just disappeared from all of our collective consciousnesses.

00:01:01.360 She started drinking early.

00:01:02.320 She never existed.

00:01:04.860 But not only that, there's been a lot that's happened in the news.

00:01:07.500 Obviously, the fastest appointments for a presidential cabinet, I think, that we've ever seen in the history of the presidency.

00:01:14.140 But before we get to all that, we've released an incredibly important and, I think, special piece of content at Daily Wire this week from our friend Jordan Peterson called The Gospels.

00:01:23.620 One of the amazing things about having Dr. Peterson on the platform has been being able to host these now two incredible seminars, the first on the book of Exodus.

00:01:32.880 The second one is on a harmonization of the four Gospels, where Dr. Peterson assembles intellectuals, people from diverse backgrounds, people of faith, people not of faith,

00:01:43.160 but all people with great insight and intellect to discuss these biblical texts.

00:01:49.080 And, you know, one of the things that I read in the news this week is that Bible sales are like at a 40-year high or something in the country.

00:01:55.600 People are very interested in the text of the Bible, and yet church attendance is in decline.

00:02:00.500 And the church in America seems to be following about a century behind the church in Europe into a sort of post-Christian state.

00:02:09.200 The church is failing, but people's interest in these texts does not seem to be failing,

00:02:15.540 and they seem interested in pursuing the text not through traditional Christian sources, but through thinkers like Jordan Peterson.

00:02:24.280 That's one of the things I want to talk to you guys about, having watched some of the show.

00:02:28.060 But first, Dr. Peterson himself wants to beam in here for a minute and tell you a little bit about the series.

00:02:33.460 So here, Dr. Jordan Peterson.

00:02:34.920 Hello, everyone. It would have been good to join you for Backstage tonight,

00:02:41.140 but I'm currently on my We Who Wrestle With God tour.

00:02:45.000 Information about that and information on the book that it's based on is available at jordanbpeterson.com.

00:02:51.400 In the meantime, I wanted to share an announcement of deep significance regarding my work through the biblical corpus.

00:02:57.840 Yesterday marked the premiere of the first two episodes of the new series I did with The Daily Wire, The Gospels.

00:03:07.540 This project constitutes some of the most meaningful work I've undertaken,

00:03:11.580 and I'm very happy to be able to share it with you.

00:03:15.000 The series is an exploration of the most profound and transformative texts in Western civilization.

00:03:21.140 The books of Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John.

00:03:25.400 These remarkable ancient stories have shaped the moral, philosophical, and cultural foundation of the free world we live in today.

00:03:33.840 I was joined in this endeavor by some of my closest friends and colleagues.

00:03:37.680 These are people that you'll recognize from the Exodus series.

00:03:40.880 Intellectuals and spiritual leaders who brought along their insights and wisdom for the journey.

00:03:45.320 Together, we unpacked these sacred texts to the best of our ability, wrestled with their meaning,

00:03:52.660 and attempted to uncover and illustrate their continuing relevance to our modern lives.

00:03:57.940 Episode 1 is available to everyone, free of charge.

00:04:01.520 I hope you'll watch it and see for yourself the value this series holds.

00:04:05.960 The remaining 9 episodes are available exclusively on Daily Wire+.

00:04:09.820 I encourage you to become a member and join us as we embark on our voyage through the text.

00:04:16.100 The stories in the Gospels are not mere tales of the past.

00:04:19.980 They're living accounts, narratives that continue to challenge, inspire, and guide us.

00:04:25.120 If we engage with them fully and in good faith,

00:04:28.940 they can change how we see the world and how we conduct ourselves within it.

00:04:33.260 Thank you all for your continued support of my work and of Daily Wire+.

00:04:37.480 Together, we have built something extraordinary,

00:04:40.980 something that stands as a bulwark against the chaos of our time.

00:04:45.060 I look forward very much to hearing your thoughts on the new series, The Gospels.

00:04:50.240 Thank you, and enjoy the rest of your evening.

00:04:54.900 As Dr. Peterson says, Episode 1 of The Gospels, absolutely free to watch,

00:04:58.880 but new episodes will be premiering every Sunday at dailywireplus.com.

00:05:03.640 I think we're still running our Cyber Monday sale as well,

00:05:06.040 so head over there tonight, and you'll still get 50% off.

00:05:08.640 Biggest sale of the year at Daily Wire+.

00:05:10.360 Members get to watch not only Dr. Peterson's body of work that he's done with us,

00:05:14.380 including The Gospels and The Exodus series,

00:05:16.400 but also hit films like Am I Racist from Matt Walsh.

00:05:20.360 And one of these days, something from Andrew Klavan.

00:05:24.980 A fellow can dream.

00:05:27.460 So I want to talk for a minute about this series, The Gospels.

00:05:30.700 We usually, in our December episode,

00:05:32.640 talk about things about which Ben knows very little.

00:05:35.940 And so I said, why not make this December backstage,

00:05:39.280 in keeping with our holiday tradition?

00:05:43.160 But actually, you know,

00:05:45.860 your views of The Gospels wouldn't be more heterodox than some of the people in the show.

00:05:52.920 That's actually what's interesting about what Jordan does,

00:05:55.400 is he approaches the text with seriousness and with rigor and with even reverence,

00:06:03.080 but he doesn't approach it in a sort of traditional,

00:06:06.040 from a traditional religious point of view.

00:06:08.480 And people seem to be hungry for that kind of perspective on this text.

00:06:12.920 What do you think that's about?

00:06:13.840 You know, it's funny.

00:06:14.800 I asked Jordan about this many years ago in an interview.

00:06:18.060 And, you know, basically was teasing him, saying,

00:06:20.940 when are you going to plunk?

00:06:21.740 You know, faith is a virtue.

00:06:24.360 And he said then,

00:06:25.960 I think people get a benefit from watching me struggle with this

00:06:29.480 because they're struggling with it.

00:06:31.600 And I really do believe that church attendance doesn't bother me.

00:06:36.420 The fallen church attendance doesn't bother me.

00:06:37.900 But I don't think we know how far we've fallen

00:06:40.640 from simply approaching the Gospels as an authoritative wisdom text.

00:06:45.260 Just years ago, I was on this panel for Wedgwood,

00:06:48.800 which does these things about the arts.

00:06:50.980 And they said,

00:06:51.900 if you could have one wish that what the arts would accomplish,

00:06:55.980 what would it be?

00:06:56.580 And I said, well, at this point,

00:06:57.420 I'd be happy if we could just convince people there's such a thing as truth.

00:07:00.600 And the guy next to me,

00:07:01.680 who was a religious, wrote religious young adult books,

00:07:04.380 started screaming at me on the stage, you know,

00:07:06.700 you intellectuals, you know, you don't understand.

00:07:09.020 Jesus is the only truth.

00:07:11.180 And I said, hey, you know, I agree with you,

00:07:12.680 but you don't realize how far we are from understanding

00:07:16.180 that there even is such a thing as the truth that we can find.

00:07:19.740 And so I guess this is important.

00:07:21.600 I think this is important.

00:07:22.560 As you say, this is a heterodox group.

00:07:24.340 I laugh to see my friend, Greg Horowitz,

00:07:26.460 who is a very fine thriller writer.

00:07:28.900 He's a colleague, you know,

00:07:29.800 and we've known each other for a long time.

00:07:31.080 He introduced me to Jordan.

00:07:32.220 He's the guy who got me to interview Jordan.

00:07:34.400 But, you know, he wouldn't know Jesus

00:07:35.560 if he died to save mankind, you know.

00:07:38.640 And he's a brilliant guy,

00:07:40.160 and I'm always happy to hear his thoughts.

00:07:41.700 But I think that people need to hear this.

00:07:43.100 They need to hear just the fact

00:07:44.980 that people are coming to a text

00:07:46.300 and getting wisdom out of it

00:07:47.600 instead of imposing their worldview on it

00:07:49.840 is revolutionary.

00:07:51.820 And I think that that's important.

00:07:53.180 I think that one of the reasons people like

00:07:54.820 to hear what Jordan has to say

00:07:56.400 about something like the Gospels

00:07:57.780 and Scripture generally

00:07:58.880 is that he's really fascinated by the text.

00:08:02.920 And I think sometimes if you grew up Christian

00:08:06.240 and you went to church every Sunday,

00:08:08.540 you can tend to take the Bible for granted

00:08:12.000 and take the Gospels for granted.

00:08:14.060 And you lose sight of just how,

00:08:15.560 it's like, the book itself is extraordinary.

00:08:19.040 The fact that we have these writings

00:08:20.440 after 2,000 years is extraordinary.

00:08:22.980 The story behind how these things were written,

00:08:25.860 how they came to us,

00:08:27.220 how they were transcribed by manuscripts,

00:08:29.820 and then pieces of manuscripts

00:08:31.320 were recovered and found over,

00:08:33.440 it's miraculous that we even have the books at all.

00:08:37.500 And then when you dive into the text

00:08:39.240 as they do in the Gospel series

00:08:40.760 to discover what each Gospel writer is,

00:08:44.120 they're actually trying to do different things

00:08:45.840 with how they tell the story

00:08:46.900 and what parts of the story they tell.

00:08:48.660 And so I think sometimes people gravitate

00:08:50.780 to people like Jordan

00:08:51.500 because along with the insight,

00:08:54.020 he's just very fascinated.

00:08:55.520 He's kind of blown away by it.

00:08:57.340 And sometimes if you go to,

00:08:58.360 like I said, you go to church every day

00:08:59.540 or every week

00:09:00.860 and you hear people talk about it,

00:09:02.660 kind of taking it for granted,

00:09:03.820 not approaching it with not just the reverence,

00:09:07.000 but the fascination

00:09:07.960 that I think these books deserve.

00:09:09.480 There also is this problem we have in modernity,

00:09:12.780 which is we clearly took a wrong exit at some point,

00:09:15.360 and you see that all around us.

00:09:17.960 But if you take a wrong exit

00:09:19.800 and you go 500 miles down the road,

00:09:22.060 you don't just get to teleport back,

00:09:24.500 barring some miracle.

00:09:25.520 It's very difficult to teleport back.

00:09:27.220 You have to take another exit.

00:09:28.880 You have to drive all that way back.

00:09:30.900 And so when you see the problems

00:09:32.880 that have come up in Western philosophy

00:09:34.840 and especially theology and religion

00:09:37.160 and ecclesiology for the past 500 years,

00:09:40.340 700 years, 1,000 years, whatever,

00:09:42.420 what I love about the way Jordan speaks about this

00:09:45.740 and a lot of these other guys here too,

00:09:47.160 by the way, in the Gospels,

00:09:48.440 is they give you a bridge back.

00:09:51.600 So I was an atheist for 10 years.

00:09:53.200 When I returned to religion,

00:09:56.080 I did not jump headfirst into Thomas Aquinas

00:09:58.800 or St. Augustine.

00:10:00.520 I started, I read a little C.S. Lewis,

00:10:03.780 a little Chesterton, a little Alistair McIntyre

00:10:06.320 to find out that virtue even exists.

00:10:08.880 And I became convinced that, okay,

00:10:10.900 God in principle could exist.

00:10:13.200 Okay, then I read the Gospels

00:10:14.800 for the first time really seriously,

00:10:16.880 and I thought, okay,

00:10:18.040 Jesus I think is who he says he is.

00:10:20.440 And then I read some of the early church writings.

00:10:23.180 I thought, okay,

00:10:23.480 I think the church is kind of what she says she is.

00:10:26.200 And that was a process of years and years and years.

00:10:28.560 So if you have this culture now

00:10:29.920 where people aren't going to church,

00:10:31.060 they don't even believe the truth exists,

00:10:33.200 you need to give them a bridge.

00:10:35.400 You need to give them a way to get back to reality.

00:10:37.580 I think Jordan does it very well.

00:10:38.660 Yeah, I mean, I think that is the relevant point.

00:10:40.900 That's exactly the language that I would have used

00:10:42.820 is the bridge language.

00:10:44.120 I think that whether he took a wrong exit

00:10:48.140 as a whole civilization or not,

00:10:49.860 I think the one thing that has happened

00:10:51.120 is that there used to be in the West

00:10:53.300 a cohesive view that your secular life

00:10:55.480 and your religious life were one.

00:10:56.960 That to be a religious human being,

00:10:57.920 this is mostly how religious people still live, right?

00:10:59.860 Whether you're a religious Christian

00:11:00.780 or a religious Jew,

00:11:01.860 it infuses your whole existence, right?

00:11:03.900 Everything that you do is infused

00:11:04.980 with that value system.

00:11:06.020 And somewhere along the line,

00:11:07.400 that was bifurcated.

00:11:08.480 That was bifurcated into sort of

00:11:09.700 the secular side of you

00:11:10.860 and then the religious side of you.

00:11:11.980 And you're religious at church

00:11:12.900 and you're secular when you're not at church.

00:11:14.880 And as people stopped going to church as much,

00:11:17.400 there was a link that was now missing,

00:11:19.760 this sort of bridge from one to the other

00:11:21.360 that went missing.

00:11:22.680 And when people hear a priest or a pastor

00:11:25.780 or a rabbi talk to them about religion,

00:11:27.120 they feel like they have a vested interest.

00:11:28.860 My goal is to get you back in the pew.

00:11:30.340 My goal is to get you back in the church

00:11:31.600 or the synagogue or whatever.

00:11:33.040 And so they're likely not to trust it

00:11:35.040 because after all,

00:11:35.920 they do have a vested interest.

00:11:37.180 I mean, it's not like a hidden secret or anything.

00:11:39.240 And meanwhile, no one in the secular world

00:11:40.700 is talking about these values at all.

00:11:41.960 So when Jordan comes at it from an angle

00:11:43.940 where he says,

00:11:44.740 let's talk about the importance of these things, right?

00:11:47.300 But Jordan's angle so far as I've heard,

00:11:50.060 unless he changes it in the Gospels

00:11:51.540 and in one of the future episodes

00:11:52.620 that I haven't yet seen,

00:11:53.700 I don't think he talks about much of the historicity

00:11:57.480 or about his own personal belief

00:11:59.980 in the absolute sort of historical veracity

00:12:02.360 of what the Gospels are saying

00:12:03.780 as much as it is about

00:12:04.560 the deep abiding importance of the Gospels.

00:12:07.740 And that's always the first step

00:12:08.840 to why somebody embraces religion.

00:12:10.040 The reason that people embrace religion 0.90

00:12:11.420 is because religion is important

00:12:13.000 and then they embrace it

00:12:14.200 because they think that it's true.

00:12:15.100 But first they have to think that it's important

00:12:16.500 because there are lots of things

00:12:19.240 in the world that are true,

00:12:20.100 but you don't invest your entire existence

00:12:21.920 in the true thing.

00:12:23.780 You invest your entire existence

00:12:25.020 in the important thing.

00:12:26.620 And very often those important things

00:12:28.220 that you invest your existence in

00:12:30.140 are things that are very hard to prove.

00:12:31.900 I mean, you invest your entire life

00:12:34.000 in your marriage.

00:12:35.120 How do you prove that you love your wife?

00:12:37.060 I mean, how do you even define love?

00:12:39.860 A few kids doesn't hurt.

00:12:40.960 Right, I mean, for sure.

00:12:42.000 I mean, listen, that's a very...

00:12:43.260 The Judaic perspective is, of course, exactly that, 0.98

00:12:45.820 that the way that you define love

00:12:46.680 is all the things that you do for your spouse

00:12:48.180 in the context of a marriage.

00:12:49.400 And it's very action-defined.

00:12:50.780 But the point that I'm making

00:12:51.520 is that that's not a truth

00:12:52.860 like two plus two equals four.

00:12:55.080 That's something that you invest in

00:12:56.160 because it's important to you

00:12:57.160 and it's important to your life.

00:12:57.860 And that's what Jordan

00:12:58.300 is constantly talking about.

00:12:59.400 He'll talk about the importance

00:13:00.260 of these stories.

00:13:00.960 And even as a Jew, 0.74

00:13:01.660 I'll agree that these stories

00:13:02.480 are incredibly important.

00:13:03.480 I mean, that's what Dennis says also, right?

00:13:04.940 That you can look at these stories.

00:13:06.060 You can say Western civilization

00:13:07.000 was founded on these stories.

00:13:09.340 And some people aren't going to take that even further.

00:13:11.240 I hope Christians do take that further.

00:13:12.540 I hope that people who are, you know,

00:13:14.200 who are Christian

00:13:14.760 or who used to be Christian

00:13:15.600 may have fallen away.

00:13:16.500 They take the importance

00:13:17.560 because I think that most people

00:13:18.760 when they discard religion,

00:13:20.140 they don't discard it

00:13:20.920 because they think that it's false.

00:13:22.260 They discard it

00:13:22.780 because they think that it's not important.

00:13:24.420 They discard it

00:13:25.120 because they think that it's inhibited to them.

00:13:26.780 It's unspeakable.

00:13:28.200 You know, therapists today,

00:13:30.560 one of the things I really like about this

00:13:31.960 is everybody sitting at the table

00:13:33.100 is very, very bright.

00:13:34.240 Yes.

00:13:34.460 They're very bright.

00:13:35.240 Intellectual people

00:13:35.980 with intellectual lives.

00:13:38.120 Therapists today

00:13:38.860 won't use the word love in public

00:13:41.580 because it's unscientific.

00:13:43.900 And I think that is at the heart

00:13:45.640 of the problem that we face.

00:13:47.000 And a lot of therapists are women 1.00

00:13:48.200 and they won't use it

00:13:49.180 because the men will tell them

00:13:50.420 that it's unscientific

00:13:51.440 because men think that objectivity is a thing.

00:13:54.740 And so just to have people use the word God,

00:13:56.940 it drives me nuts when people,

00:13:59.200 I was just reading a book

00:14:00.200 about the poets

00:14:01.440 and how they're connecting us to the cosmos.

00:14:03.260 And the guy said,

00:14:04.240 connecting to something

00:14:05.040 that I would call God.

00:14:06.360 And I was saying this to Spencer

00:14:07.540 and he said,

00:14:07.900 apparently not.

00:14:08.760 Apparently he wouldn't call God.

00:14:09.880 Or he would have just said,

00:14:10.680 it's God.

00:14:11.320 Yeah, yeah.

00:14:12.040 And I think that that,

00:14:13.060 just bringing that language

00:14:14.100 back into intellectual life

00:14:15.640 is huge.

00:14:16.800 It's a hugely important thing.

00:14:17.460 You know,

00:14:17.700 there's also something

00:14:18.360 very important that Jordan does.

00:14:20.100 He does it at the beginning

00:14:20.980 of the series,

00:14:21.840 of episode one,

00:14:22.640 which is he draws the parallel

00:14:24.480 between Exodus,

00:14:25.560 which he says is the most important story

00:14:26.980 of the Old Testament,

00:14:28.040 and the Gospels.

00:14:29.200 And this is a very traditional

00:14:30.700 and orthodox exegesis.

00:14:33.080 The notion that the Exodus

00:14:34.460 is actually the typology of history.

00:14:37.200 All of history is contained

00:14:38.420 in the story of the Exodus

00:14:39.360 and is fulfilled,

00:14:41.020 Christians believe,

00:14:42.040 in the person of Christ.

00:14:43.440 What's so interesting

00:14:44.160 about Jordan reading the Gospels

00:14:46.160 is that the Gospels

00:14:47.320 are not exactly poetry.

00:14:48.640 They're not exactly philosophy.

00:14:50.040 They're not,

00:14:50.480 our Lord is not a philosopher.

00:14:52.300 He is the truth,

00:14:53.540 Christians believe.

00:14:54.620 And so the Gospels are journalism.

00:14:57.320 They're accounts that differ

00:14:58.700 from certain perspectives,

00:15:00.380 but you know,

00:15:01.040 they agree, you know.

00:15:02.280 I totally agree with you.

00:15:02.940 And so, you know,

00:15:05.020 this is why C.S. Lewis

00:15:06.160 calls Christianity,

00:15:08.340 the Gospels,

00:15:09.360 the true myth.

00:15:10.600 That for people

00:15:11.880 who are watching this,

00:15:13.100 who may be agnostic

00:15:14.200 or atheistic even,

00:15:16.460 they will be lured in

00:15:17.620 by just the myth,

00:15:19.140 by the story,

00:15:20.000 by the metaphor.

00:15:21.160 And the other thing

00:15:21.900 that I think Jordan

00:15:22.720 is very, very good at

00:15:23.800 is part of the atheism

00:15:25.660 of our age

00:15:26.340 comes from people's hubris

00:15:28.460 and scientism.

00:15:29.980 They think that religion 1.00

00:15:30.880 is for dumb people. 1.00

00:15:31.880 And atheism is for smart people. 0.99

00:15:34.340 And Jordan

00:15:34.860 and everyone on that stage

00:15:36.080 with him,

00:15:36.980 they are smart people.

00:15:38.900 And if this happened to me

00:15:40.140 in my atheism,

00:15:40.800 I was a little punk

00:15:41.960 who thought he was smarter

00:15:43.000 than he was.

00:15:44.080 And so I returned to,

00:15:45.340 I returned in a different way

00:15:46.420 than other people do.

00:15:47.140 He says he was a little.

00:15:48.160 Yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:15:48.920 Now I'm the real thing,

00:15:50.040 you know,

00:15:50.160 I say with my cigar.

00:15:52.920 At the time,

00:15:53.940 I needed permission

00:15:55.200 to believe that smart people

00:15:56.880 could be religious.

00:15:58.600 I think there's one other,

00:15:59.240 I think there's one other

00:16:00.140 piece of this,

00:16:00.800 which we've kind of hit around

00:16:02.340 but deserves exploration.

00:16:04.180 And that's that

00:16:04.760 Gen X

00:16:06.240 and the millennials

00:16:07.600 are coming into their own,

00:16:09.120 right?

00:16:09.660 Gen X

00:16:10.120 in many ways

00:16:11.620 responsible for

00:16:12.300 Donald Trump winning

00:16:13.160 the election

00:16:14.140 a month ago.

00:16:15.660 Our audience

00:16:16.400 at Daily Wire

00:16:16.960 is not the traditional

00:16:17.960 conservative audience.

00:16:19.260 When you tell people

00:16:20.060 you work for the Daily Wire,

00:16:20.860 they go,

00:16:21.380 oh,

00:16:21.700 your audience is,

00:16:22.720 they're all boomers 0.99

00:16:23.540 and they're in red states.

00:16:25.060 That's really not true

00:16:25.980 with the Daily Wire.

00:16:26.600 Our audience is predominantly

00:16:27.780 made up of Gen X 0.99

00:16:29.660 and millennials

00:16:30.080 and it's predominantly urban

00:16:31.460 and predominantly coastal.

00:16:33.380 And so,

00:16:34.100 that group of people,

00:16:36.100 which,

00:16:36.480 it shocks people

00:16:37.220 when you say it

00:16:37.600 because they think

00:16:37.920 those people don't exist.

00:16:39.100 This election

00:16:39.680 proved that they exist

00:16:40.940 and the existence

00:16:41.620 of the Daily Wire

00:16:42.200 for the last decade

00:16:42.900 had already proven

00:16:44.300 that they exist.

00:16:45.620 Gen X

00:16:46.080 is defined by a belief

00:16:47.540 that the greatest crime

00:16:49.040 you can commit

00:16:49.600 is to sell out.

00:16:50.900 The millennials

00:16:51.700 are defined

00:16:52.480 by a belief

00:16:53.120 that the highest virtue

00:16:54.180 is authenticity.

00:16:55.000 You can see then

00:16:57.060 that both of those

00:16:58.060 groups of people

00:16:59.160 will despise partisans.

00:17:03.400 That's one thing

00:17:04.240 that distinguishes

00:17:05.040 Gen X

00:17:06.340 and millennial conservatives,

00:17:07.520 for example,

00:17:08.260 from baby boomer conservatives.

00:17:11.080 Baby boomer conservatives 0.97

00:17:12.020 are far more likely

00:17:13.220 to find appeal

00:17:14.620 to partisan thinkers,

00:17:17.540 partisan hosts,

00:17:18.800 which Gen X

00:17:20.900 and millennials don't. 0.99

00:17:21.680 Gen X and millennials

00:17:22.320 want to listen

00:17:22.840 to shows like yours

00:17:23.640 which feel more personal.

00:17:25.180 They feel more

00:17:26.100 perhaps honest

00:17:27.920 because you will

00:17:30.100 say what you believe

00:17:31.060 even if it goes against

00:17:32.080 sort of the party line.

00:17:33.720 That's why

00:17:34.020 you're far more likely

00:17:35.140 to find conservatives

00:17:36.360 disagreeing with

00:17:37.300 Republican talking points

00:17:39.060 on the internet

00:17:39.520 than you are

00:17:40.180 on cable news

00:17:41.420 because you're speaking

00:17:42.340 to a completely

00:17:42.980 different group of people

00:17:43.700 with a different set

00:17:44.700 of values.

00:17:46.440 Part of what,

00:17:47.400 as a Gen Xer,

00:17:48.860 part of what I believe

00:17:50.320 is that ideology

00:17:51.200 theology is important

00:17:52.600 so far as it goes

00:17:54.100 and doctrine

00:17:55.120 is important

00:17:55.900 so far as it goes

00:17:57.240 but they can also

00:17:58.600 both be used

00:17:59.580 to obscure things

00:18:00.600 that are true.

00:18:01.540 Right.

00:18:01.820 Yeah.

00:18:02.620 And so what I love

00:18:03.940 about watching

00:18:04.420 the Exodus series,

00:18:05.160 I thought the Exodus series

00:18:06.160 was the best thing

00:18:06.760 we'd ever put out

00:18:07.380 as a company

00:18:07.880 and I think,

00:18:09.320 you know,

00:18:09.500 I've seen the first episode

00:18:10.300 of the Gospels

00:18:10.880 and am already

00:18:11.800 in love with it.

00:18:12.660 What I love about

00:18:13.420 Jordan's approach

00:18:14.100 and the other panelists

00:18:15.220 is that they're not

00:18:16.540 approaching the text

00:18:17.760 as doctrinaires.

00:18:19.520 They're not approaching

00:18:20.420 the text as partisans.

00:18:22.340 It's good that they

00:18:23.220 are outsiders.

00:18:24.420 They're not just telling you

00:18:25.800 talking points

00:18:26.880 about the text

00:18:27.780 that they learned

00:18:28.240 and it kind of goes

00:18:28.820 to your point

00:18:29.160 a minute ago, Matt.

00:18:30.040 They're not just telling you

00:18:30.820 the things that they learned

00:18:31.740 in Sunday school

00:18:32.600 that are sort of rote

00:18:33.440 and that we perhaps

00:18:34.680 take for granted

00:18:35.360 or that sound familiar

00:18:37.240 to the point that they

00:18:37.960 don't sound like anything

00:18:38.780 at all.

00:18:39.880 You know,

00:18:40.020 Jordan says,

00:18:40.920 the name of his book

00:18:41.780 which is number one

00:18:42.760 on the New York Times

00:18:43.400 bestseller list right now

00:18:44.280 is We Who Wrestle With God.

00:18:46.020 Obviously,

00:18:46.380 an allusion to Jacob.

00:18:48.720 To Jacob.

00:18:50.260 They wrestle with the text.

00:18:51.960 Right.

00:18:52.180 They're approaching the text

00:18:53.260 as people who are

00:18:54.160 earnest about it,

00:18:56.600 inspired by it,

00:18:58.580 but haven't grown up

00:19:00.160 in a tradition

00:19:00.640 with necessarily

00:19:01.160 some of them have

00:19:01.820 but most of them

00:19:02.500 have not grown up

00:19:03.320 in a tradition

00:19:03.820 and so you hear ideas

00:19:06.000 that perhaps contain truth

00:19:08.360 that you might not get to

00:19:09.660 through simple doctrine

00:19:11.640 in the same way

00:19:12.460 that in politics

00:19:13.080 there are things

00:19:13.920 that are true

00:19:14.220 that we don't get to

00:19:14.880 just through ideology.

00:19:16.380 And I think

00:19:16.900 that that's important

00:19:17.660 to this new audience

00:19:19.080 to whom we speak,

00:19:19.900 to whom Jordan speaks.

00:19:21.340 Because you have to build

00:19:22.460 the intellectual scaffolding

00:19:24.440 that will permit you

00:19:26.400 to pursue truth

00:19:27.220 even further.

00:19:27.940 You don't want to just

00:19:28.680 have it downloaded

00:19:29.360 to your head.

00:19:30.120 That's right.

00:19:30.360 And so once you build

00:19:31.020 that scaffolding,

00:19:31.720 especially with religion,

00:19:32.720 it's not enough

00:19:33.380 just to know

00:19:34.220 the true things.

00:19:35.300 When it comes to virtue,

00:19:36.340 it's not enough

00:19:36.700 to know virtuous things.

00:19:38.040 You actually have to do it

00:19:39.160 and put it into your body 0.62

00:19:39.900 and that means

00:19:40.660 if you want to be holy,

00:19:41.640 you have to pray

00:19:42.380 which is why I'm so happy

00:19:43.280 to tell you about Hallow.

00:19:44.880 As Christmas approaches,

00:19:46.540 there is a season

00:19:47.320 that people don't talk

00:19:48.440 about anymore.

00:19:49.020 But it's a beautiful season

00:19:50.000 known as Advent.

00:19:51.360 We need to make America

00:19:52.240 great again,

00:19:52.880 make America healthy again,

00:19:53.960 and make Advent solemn again.

00:19:55.440 You need to put God

00:19:56.260 at the center of this season

00:19:57.620 with Hallow,

00:19:58.600 the number one prayer app.

00:20:00.040 They're launching

00:20:00.480 a special Advent prayer challenge

00:20:02.080 called

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00:20:08.860 and wonderful prayers

00:20:10.080 to help you

00:20:10.740 in your spiritual life.

00:20:12.700 This challenge features

00:20:14.420 an incredible lineup

00:20:15.860 of people

00:20:16.500 like survivalist Bear Grylls.

00:20:18.260 It includes

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00:20:19.640 from The Chosen

00:20:20.340 and they will lead you

00:20:21.960 through a severe mercy,

00:20:24.940 a powerful story

00:20:25.860 of faith and divine love.

00:20:27.800 You will join

00:20:28.320 Pastor Francis Chan

00:20:29.560 and Jeff Cavins

00:20:30.220 for profound

00:20:31.340 scripture reflections

00:20:32.360 while actor Kevin James

00:20:34.040 explores the spiritual classic

00:20:35.880 Divine Intimacy.

00:20:37.380 The experience is enriched

00:20:38.740 with beautiful Advent music.

00:20:40.040 Yes, there is Advent music,

00:20:41.480 believe it or not.

00:20:42.000 It's not all

00:20:42.860 just Mariah Carey

00:20:43.900 and Jingle Bells

00:20:44.540 from award winning artists

00:20:46.040 including Gwen Stefani,

00:20:47.520 Lauren Daigle

00:20:48.140 and Matt Marr.

00:20:49.920 Drew,

00:20:50.700 I believe you use Hallow.

00:20:51.640 I do use Hallow.

00:20:52.580 I use it to meditate

00:20:53.600 on scripture,

00:20:54.320 guided meditation

00:20:55.300 through the scripture.

00:20:56.160 I use it,

00:20:56.760 I've started to use it

00:20:57.920 for rosaries

00:20:58.520 which I've been

00:20:59.760 experimenting with

00:21:00.720 and it's great

00:21:02.060 and you know

00:21:02.660 Liam Neeson is in it

00:21:03.640 so I'm afraid

00:21:04.040 if I don't use it 0.92

00:21:04.660 he'll kill me. 0.99

00:21:06.780 That's a good inducement. 1.00

00:21:08.600 It's more than

00:21:09.160 just daily prayer,

00:21:10.200 it's an invitation

00:21:10.820 to experience God's love,

00:21:12.220 mercy and healing

00:21:12.960 in a deeper way

00:21:13.780 at a very important time

00:21:14.920 of the liturgical year.

00:21:16.140 Do not wait,

00:21:16.960 get three months of Hallow

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00:21:18.380 Hallow.com

00:21:18.900 slash Daily Wire.

00:21:20.040 Make this a time

00:21:20.980 of putting God

00:21:21.500 center of your life

00:21:23.580 and experience the good

00:21:24.920 that comes from it.

00:21:26.060 Go to Hallow.com

00:21:27.100 slash Daily Wire

00:21:27.780 for three months free.

00:21:29.800 So one of the things that

00:21:30.840 as we were talking

00:21:32.480 this morning about

00:21:33.120 how to approach

00:21:33.860 conversations about

00:21:34.800 the gospels,

00:21:35.860 our producer Mathis

00:21:36.880 brought me a sort of

00:21:37.680 series of topics

00:21:38.380 and one of them

00:21:38.780 really stood out to me

00:21:39.640 and it's in a world

00:21:41.460 where doctrine

00:21:43.180 isn't everyone's path

00:21:44.260 to beginning to wrestle

00:21:46.300 with the text

00:21:47.300 of scripture.

00:21:50.080 We're sort of forced

00:21:51.120 to reflect on

00:21:52.120 what you might call

00:21:53.480 cultural Christianity

00:21:54.580 or cultural,

00:21:56.120 you know,

00:21:56.300 the presence of these

00:21:57.340 sort of religious traditions

00:21:58.240 in our culture

00:21:58.920 but detached from

00:22:00.260 necessarily faith in them

00:22:02.340 and because there

00:22:04.060 are pretty pronounced

00:22:06.160 distinctions between

00:22:07.320 the theology of

00:22:08.720 the five of us

00:22:09.640 I actually thought

00:22:10.040 it would be kind of

00:22:10.420 an interesting thing

00:22:11.620 to explore for a minute.

00:22:12.460 This reminds me

00:22:13.180 of the Chesterton line

00:22:14.180 that we open our minds

00:22:17.500 for the same reason

00:22:18.300 that we open our mouths

00:22:19.220 namely to close it

00:22:20.600 on something solid.

00:22:22.080 That skepticism has utility

00:22:23.340 only when it leads

00:22:24.120 to conviction.

00:22:25.220 So this is what I love

00:22:27.360 about the gospel series

00:22:28.380 and really everything

00:22:29.040 that Jordan has done

00:22:29.840 on religion

00:22:30.520 which is that it gives

00:22:31.880 people an opening.

00:22:33.140 It gives them an entree

00:22:34.020 and then they need

00:22:35.740 to figure out

00:22:36.180 what they're going

00:22:36.600 to do with that

00:22:37.240 and so, you know,

00:22:38.260 it seems to me

00:22:38.940 that if God exists

00:22:40.120 it's important to know that.

00:22:43.180 That seems like a big question

00:22:44.320 and if God exists

00:22:45.540 then we want to know

00:22:46.600 something about him

00:22:47.620 and how we relate to him.

00:22:49.000 Well this is,

00:22:49.620 to me this is everything.

00:22:51.180 If God exists

00:22:52.060 and he wants us

00:22:52.740 to know something about him

00:22:53.600 and how to relate to him

00:22:54.300 then we might want to come

00:22:56.380 to some conclusions about that.

00:22:57.680 We might want to live

00:22:58.640 that out in our lives

00:22:59.440 and that will lead us

00:23:00.520 to doctrines

00:23:00.940 and that will lead us

00:23:01.880 to sacraments

00:23:02.460 and it will lead us

00:23:03.100 to inform everything

00:23:04.940 in our lives

00:23:05.660 and you ignore that question

00:23:07.640 at your peril

00:23:08.500 and to your unhappiness.

00:23:09.840 I read the Bible

00:23:11.440 from the age of,

00:23:13.020 seriously,

00:23:13.720 from the age of 15 on

00:23:14.720 and read it many,

00:23:15.380 many times

00:23:15.760 before I became a believer

00:23:16.700 in any kind of God

00:23:17.800 whatsoever

00:23:18.200 and the only time

00:23:20.000 when I finally understood

00:23:21.180 the Bible

00:23:22.140 was when I started

00:23:23.240 to believe there was a God

00:23:24.360 and I thought,

00:23:25.160 and it came to me

00:23:26.060 that I should be baptized

00:23:26.960 and I was shocked.

00:23:28.100 I was shocked

00:23:28.600 that this is the voice

00:23:30.100 that was in my head.

00:23:31.020 You should be baptized. 0.88

00:23:32.140 And so I thought,

00:23:32.860 I'm just going to go back

00:23:33.480 and read it as if it were true

00:23:34.820 and read it as if it were history.

00:23:36.580 And I've come to a lot

00:23:37.520 of radical and eccentric

00:23:38.640 conclusions about that

00:23:39.920 because I think that

00:23:40.720 if a man landed

00:23:42.940 from outer space

00:23:43.800 in the year zero

00:23:44.960 and people wrote that down,

00:23:46.240 certain things would happen.

00:23:47.020 There wouldn't be

00:23:47.300 this magical thing

00:23:48.340 where every single word

00:23:49.780 could be detached

00:23:50.520 from every other word

00:23:51.300 and phrases pulled out.

00:23:52.460 It would just be a report

00:23:53.400 and there would be discrepancies

00:23:55.200 between two people's reports

00:23:56.540 but they would all have truth

00:23:58.400 if you gathered them

00:23:59.700 together rightly.

00:24:01.080 And to me,

00:24:02.020 this is the reason

00:24:03.080 to believe in God

00:24:04.760 and for me,

00:24:05.200 it's the reason

00:24:05.520 to believe in Christ

00:24:06.160 because it all happened.

00:24:07.220 It's all real.

00:24:08.220 And otherwise,

00:24:09.600 you lose me.

00:24:10.320 If you're just going

00:24:10.780 for the meaning,

00:24:11.440 if you're just going

00:24:11.960 to the fact

00:24:13.280 that it's foundational,

00:24:14.580 I think what you said

00:24:16.040 about this being journalism,

00:24:17.060 that's the thing

00:24:17.720 that sings for me.

00:24:18.680 When I pick up the Bible,

00:24:19.960 I am reading journalism.

00:24:20.820 And that means

00:24:21.700 that sometimes

00:24:22.460 I'll hear a guy

00:24:23.100 say something

00:24:23.600 and think,

00:24:24.140 that's not what I would have thought

00:24:25.000 if I had seen what you saw.

00:24:26.420 But that's okay.

00:24:27.460 I wasn't there.

00:24:28.340 Yeah, I wasn't there.

00:24:29.200 And still,

00:24:30.180 and this thing

00:24:31.380 that you were talking about,

00:24:32.700 about going to this literature

00:24:34.940 for wisdom,

00:24:36.660 I can't tell you

00:24:37.760 as a person

00:24:38.340 who reads a lot

00:24:38.940 of literary criticism,

00:24:39.960 which most people don't read,

00:24:41.420 I can't tell you

00:24:41.940 how radical that is

00:24:43.000 in this time.

00:24:44.280 Current literary criticism,

00:24:45.760 and when I say current

00:24:46.460 for the last 50 years,

00:24:47.820 has been essentially

00:24:49.000 to call

00:24:50.480 writers into the dock

00:24:51.880 for why they haven't

00:24:53.080 lived up to your virtue.

00:24:54.720 So you read Jane Austen

00:24:55.980 to see how she was polluted

00:24:57.220 by being part of the

00:24:58.300 imperial British empire,

00:25:00.660 you know?

00:25:01.080 And that's the kind of

00:25:02.700 Edward Said idea

00:25:04.820 that this is polluted

00:25:05.860 by imperialism

00:25:07.300 and colonialism

00:25:07.860 and all this stuff.

00:25:08.880 Whereas my attitude

00:25:10.360 toward literature

00:25:10.940 is no,

00:25:11.720 these people are

00:25:12.560 people of brilliance

00:25:13.860 who are coming to me

00:25:14.860 through time

00:25:15.580 to speak eternal verities

00:25:17.500 that are captured

00:25:18.860 in their moment.

00:25:19.940 And so you,

00:25:20.540 I'm taking wisdom

00:25:21.440 from them,

00:25:21.900 I'm not giving my wisdom

00:25:22.860 to them.

00:25:23.680 And that, to me,

00:25:24.460 is what's great about this

00:25:25.500 and it's also

00:25:26.400 what's good, I think,

00:25:27.540 about going to church

00:25:28.420 and having a tradition

00:25:29.780 of possibly thousands

00:25:31.380 of years

00:25:31.940 of people doing that

00:25:33.020 to relate to.

00:25:35.220 You know,

00:25:35.480 you're going to the past

00:25:37.260 for wisdom,

00:25:38.320 not to scold it,

00:25:39.760 not to impose

00:25:40.800 your superior views on it,

00:25:42.880 but to get the things

00:25:43.740 that are always true

00:25:44.560 and are forever true.

00:25:45.260 I think another reason

00:25:47.320 why maybe the Bible

00:25:49.220 is becoming popular again

00:25:50.600 in our society

00:25:51.700 is that there's the wisdom.

00:25:53.960 There's also just,

00:25:55.840 maybe one thing we're missing

00:25:56.600 is people live now

00:25:58.000 in a culture

00:26:00.220 where nothing is permanent

00:26:01.080 and we're just surrounded,

00:26:02.380 you know,

00:26:02.500 we've got this constant stream

00:26:03.480 of content on our phone

00:26:04.520 and everything lasts

00:26:05.960 for two seconds

00:26:06.640 and nothing matters

00:26:07.460 for more than two seconds.

00:26:09.080 And so there's a permanence

00:26:11.080 to the Bible

00:26:12.020 that I think is appealing

00:26:12.880 to people.

00:26:13.620 The fact that it has existed

00:26:16.560 and persisted

00:26:17.620 for more than 2,000 years,

00:26:21.100 something permanent

00:26:22.500 and deep and beautiful,

00:26:24.180 something that feels sacred,

00:26:26.160 I think people are just longing

00:26:27.260 and hungry for that.

00:26:27.900 It's one of the reasons

00:26:28.320 why the Latin mass 1.00

00:26:29.120 is growing at a rate

00:26:32.240 much larger

00:26:33.040 than these kind of

00:26:35.060 more liberal parishes are.

00:26:36.100 Well, you know,

00:26:36.680 Shia LaBeouf...

00:26:37.120 Because of that,

00:26:38.180 the sacredness.

00:26:39.060 And when Shia LaBeouf... 0.99

00:26:40.340 Mostly FBI agents.

00:26:41.320 Yeah, right.

00:26:41.760 Yeah, it's true.

00:26:43.540 There are a lot of federal agents,

00:26:44.720 but that's all going to end

00:26:45.600 when Trump gets into office.

00:26:46.940 When Shia LaBeouf converted,

00:26:48.620 to your points,

00:26:50.020 when you were talking about,

00:26:51.040 you know,

00:26:52.000 the vested interest

00:26:52.980 of prelates trying to sell things,

00:26:55.120 one of the reasons

00:26:55.760 Shia LaBeouf said

00:26:56.440 he loved the Latin mass

00:26:57.460 and he told Bishop Barron,

00:26:58.340 who's one of the stars

00:26:58.920 of the Gospels,

00:26:59.940 is he said,

00:27:01.080 I didn't feel like

00:27:02.280 they were trying

00:27:02.680 to sell me anything.

00:27:03.860 And that's very attractive

00:27:04.580 to a lot of people.

00:27:06.260 I mean,

00:27:06.920 the biggest factor

00:27:07.940 in all this is something

00:27:08.720 that you mentioned briefly,

00:27:09.700 Michael,

00:27:09.920 which is that

00:27:10.360 we're in a time

00:27:11.580 when people are very hungry.

00:27:13.400 So the thing

00:27:13.940 that they're hungry for

00:27:14.560 is one element,

00:27:15.140 and then the fact

00:27:15.600 that everybody

00:27:15.980 is deeply hungry

00:27:16.780 is the other big element.

00:27:18.420 So I made the mistake recently

00:27:20.020 of going back

00:27:20.480 and watching some

00:27:20.980 Woody Allen films.

00:27:22.660 And there is one,

00:27:24.060 and I'm sure Drew

00:27:24.820 probably likes Woody Allen films

00:27:25.820 better than I do.

00:27:26.440 No, I'm not a Woody Allen fan.

00:27:27.900 Okay, interesting.

00:27:28.220 I like his early writing.

00:27:29.440 So I think that his best film

00:27:31.780 is a film that he made,

00:27:32.820 I believe it was 91,

00:27:34.160 called Crimes and Misdemeanors.

00:27:35.640 Yeah, that's great.

00:27:36.440 And this film,

00:27:38.500 for those who haven't seen it,

00:27:39.300 it's no longer available

00:27:39.900 on streaming.

00:27:40.420 You basically have to bootleg it

00:27:41.700 or buy it on DVD or something.

00:27:43.960 And the film is about

00:27:45.520 a character, Martin Landau,

00:27:46.900 who is married,

00:27:47.960 and he's having an affair

00:27:49.080 with some woman,

00:27:49.800 and the woman starts bothering him.

00:27:51.720 She wants to come tell his wife.

00:27:52.800 She wants him to break up

00:27:53.580 with his wife

00:27:54.000 and all of this kind of stuff.

00:27:55.300 And so he goes to his brother,

00:27:57.320 and his brother is kind of

00:27:58.500 an underworld criminal,

00:27:59.340 and the question is,

00:28:00.340 is he going to have his brother 1.00

00:28:00.960 kill the girl? 1.00

00:28:02.060 And, you know, 1.00

00:28:03.020 spoiler alert,

00:28:03.900 he ends up having his brother 0.96

00:28:05.100 kill the girl, 1.00

00:28:05.760 and he goes through 1.00

00:28:06.420 this whole spiritual crisis afterward

00:28:08.040 in which he thinks about,

00:28:10.260 well, if there's a God,

00:28:11.420 God's going to be very angry

00:28:12.280 with me for having done this.

00:28:13.220 I looked into her eyes,

00:28:13.880 I saw that something isn't there

00:28:15.240 that used to be there.

00:28:17.000 And you think that

00:28:17.700 maybe Woody Allen,

00:28:18.640 for the first time in his life,

00:28:19.600 is actually going to go

00:28:20.080 in kind of a religious direction.

00:28:21.340 And instead,

00:28:21.900 he takes this wild left turn

00:28:23.680 near the end

00:28:24.120 where they fast forward

00:28:24.700 about a year,

00:28:25.420 and the end of the film is

00:28:26.420 Martin Landau is now

00:28:27.760 hanging out with Woody Allen.

00:28:28.820 They haven't met

00:28:29.420 the entire film.

00:28:30.300 And Martin Landau

00:28:30.920 is telling the story

00:28:31.960 of what happened to him.

00:28:33.340 And Woody Allen says,

00:28:34.320 so what ended up happening?

00:28:35.180 He said, everything was fine.

00:28:36.440 He said, because it turns out

00:28:37.200 that I thought there wasn't a God.

00:28:38.400 And if there wasn't a God,

00:28:39.600 then what does it really matter

00:28:41.020 what I did?

00:28:42.300 And I thought,

00:28:43.380 that is actually

00:28:44.260 a baldly brave take

00:28:46.700 on what it means

00:28:48.240 for there not to be a God.

00:28:48.940 Like, good for Woody Allen

00:28:49.580 for actually just saying

00:28:50.340 the quiet part out loud,

00:28:51.400 which is that without God...

00:28:52.180 This is his answer

00:28:52.940 to crime and punishment.

00:28:53.900 Yeah, right, exactly.

00:28:55.180 I mean, that's crimes

00:28:56.100 and misdemeanors, right?

00:28:56.780 Crime and punishment

00:28:57.200 is the idea

00:28:57.760 that you are going to repent

00:28:59.400 because there's a loving God

00:29:00.320 waiting for you to repent,

00:29:01.480 and you can still

00:29:02.760 be a useful person

00:29:03.580 after having done

00:29:04.100 something truly evil.

00:29:05.020 But evil does exist

00:29:05.840 and you have to repent

00:29:06.480 of that evil.

00:29:07.000 But he makes a spectacular mistake

00:29:08.600 because this film

00:29:09.680 and Matchpoint

00:29:10.240 are both his war

00:29:11.120 with crime and punishment.

00:29:12.820 Matchpoint has the wonderful joke

00:29:14.120 that he uses

00:29:14.940 crime and punishment

00:29:15.720 as his murder strategy.

00:29:19.220 He gets the idea

00:29:20.200 for his murder

00:29:20.620 from crime and punishment.

00:29:21.580 It's a great joke.

00:29:22.160 But it ends crimes

00:29:24.300 and misdemeanor

00:29:24.840 with the Jewish philosopher,

00:29:27.280 I think,

00:29:27.700 saying there's no fairness

00:29:30.160 or goodness in life.

00:29:32.220 Is that one?

00:29:33.220 Yeah, I think it is that one.

00:29:34.380 He says no fairness

00:29:35.080 or goodness in life,

00:29:35.800 so we have to bring

00:29:36.740 in creation.

00:29:38.260 Creation left out

00:29:39.120 the goodness and the love

00:29:39.860 so we have to bring it

00:29:40.800 as if we weren't part

00:29:41.980 of creation.

00:29:43.140 But I think the point

00:29:45.140 is that he even undercuts

00:29:45.840 his own point

00:29:46.220 because the philosopher

00:29:46.820 kills himself.

00:29:47.500 Yes. 0.83

00:29:48.080 Right?

00:29:48.600 No, everything goes wrong

00:29:49.660 in that film.

00:29:49.960 Right, right.

00:29:50.280 But I think the point

00:29:51.480 is that

00:29:52.160 it's the best explication

00:29:53.260 of nihilism

00:29:53.940 that I think

00:29:55.540 has ever been put on film.

00:29:57.000 And it's that nihilism

00:29:58.480 that we're watching

00:29:59.080 played out in real time

00:30:00.600 throughout the West

00:30:01.540 right now.

00:30:01.960 I mean, I don't think

00:30:02.380 that it's a coincidence

00:30:02.960 that the same civilization

00:30:03.900 that wants to engage

00:30:04.860 with Jordan

00:30:05.280 is the civilization

00:30:06.160 that's determining

00:30:07.040 that it's time

00:30:07.500 to greenlight euthanasia

00:30:08.920 in the UK.

00:30:10.280 Or that it's decided

00:30:10.860 that abortion 1.00

00:30:11.620 is not just something

00:30:12.740 that should be,

00:30:13.520 you know,

00:30:14.160 it's sad but should be

00:30:15.380 legal and rare.

00:30:16.300 It's actually something

00:30:16.900 that you ought to cheer for.

00:30:18.560 When you're a civilization

00:30:19.320 that has basically

00:30:19.940 sold out your birthright

00:30:21.060 for a mess of pottage,

00:30:22.240 and you've decided

00:30:22.940 that what you're going

00:30:23.440 to do instead

00:30:25.160 is engage in

00:30:27.560 essentially sex

00:30:28.460 consequence-free

00:30:29.280 and that the meaning

00:30:30.580 of life is your

00:30:31.240 hedonistic pursuit

00:30:31.940 of pleasure within it,

00:30:32.960 that opens up

00:30:33.620 this massive gap

00:30:34.640 for somebody who says,

00:30:35.280 wait a second,

00:30:35.960 that's not what

00:30:36.500 a meaningful life

00:30:37.200 looks like.

00:30:37.700 I mean, this is how

00:30:38.000 Jordan became famous

00:30:38.640 is talking about

00:30:39.180 a meaningful life.

00:30:39.760 Well, it turns out

00:30:40.180 that in the West,

00:30:41.260 the key element

00:30:42.040 of a meaningful life

00:30:42.920 is engagement

00:30:43.660 with this tradition.

00:30:45.640 And so I think

00:30:46.720 that that's why

00:30:47.220 there's been this

00:30:47.700 hunger for the Bible 0.98

00:30:48.300 because if you,

00:30:49.680 everyone tends to

00:30:50.520 compare themselves

00:30:51.000 to their parents,

00:30:51.940 I mean, this is what

00:30:52.460 we all do,

00:30:53.540 and particularly

00:30:53.940 in an unhappy age,

00:30:55.200 you compare yourself

00:30:55.840 to your parents.

00:30:56.680 Well, the reality is

00:30:58.020 that there are a lot

00:30:58.440 of kids today

00:30:59.080 who are not as happy

00:30:59.860 as their parents

00:31:00.700 or certainly

00:31:01.240 as their grandparents.

00:31:02.360 And so they're

00:31:02.600 looking back even beyond.

00:31:03.520 They're looking at

00:31:03.860 their grandparents

00:31:04.300 and saying,

00:31:05.020 you know,

00:31:05.300 what did they have

00:31:06.900 that I don't have?

00:31:07.560 I have better technology,

00:31:08.540 I have cooler stuff,

00:31:09.540 I have more access

00:31:10.340 to all of the

00:31:11.160 forbidden fruits

00:31:11.740 that my grandparents

00:31:12.860 weren't supposed

00:31:13.700 to engage in,

00:31:14.620 and yet here I am

00:31:15.440 miserable.

00:31:16.280 What were they engaged

00:31:17.180 with that maybe I'm not?

00:31:18.680 Maybe I ought to

00:31:19.880 re-engage with the things

00:31:20.820 that they were telling me

00:31:22.440 when I was a kid.

00:31:23.700 And so I think

00:31:24.500 that you're seeing

00:31:25.100 a lot of that

00:31:25.600 in what's happening.

00:31:26.220 And this is really

00:31:27.060 the important point

00:31:27.920 that Drew,

00:31:28.620 you touched on earlier,

00:31:29.620 which is,

00:31:31.200 you know,

00:31:31.660 you just mentioned,

00:31:32.400 Ben,

00:31:32.560 that the euthanasia bill,

00:31:33.660 so-called,

00:31:34.140 a good death,

00:31:34.660 it's the worst kind

00:31:35.280 of death imaginable,

00:31:36.040 it's suicide.

00:31:36.940 And the UK

00:31:37.960 just voted 0.92

00:31:38.440 to kill off 1.00

00:31:39.000 vulnerable people 0.99

00:31:39.700 and Canada's done it

00:31:41.200 and the whole West

00:31:41.720 is going that direction.

00:31:43.220 And Adrian Vermeule

00:31:44.720 at Harvard

00:31:45.160 made a very good point,

00:31:46.300 which is that

00:31:46.800 it is insufficient

00:31:47.720 to argue against

00:31:49.100 assisted suicide

00:31:49.980 on the basis

00:31:50.880 that there's

00:31:51.360 a slippery slope

00:31:52.280 and hard cases

00:31:53.520 and some people

00:31:54.700 might actually

00:31:55.560 have violations

00:31:56.920 in their will

00:31:58.220 and their consent 0.99

00:31:59.000 as they're killed. 0.92

00:31:59.900 He said,

00:32:00.540 that's not going

00:32:01.120 to cut it

00:32:01.620 because if you

00:32:02.920 accept the premise

00:32:04.040 that life is

00:32:05.520 fundamentally one's own

00:32:07.340 and we have

00:32:08.180 full autonomy

00:32:08.780 over it

00:32:09.360 and death

00:32:10.200 is just a matter

00:32:11.400 of our own

00:32:12.180 individual will

00:32:12.920 and the whole point

00:32:14.000 of life

00:32:14.280 is to just

00:32:14.740 seek hedonistic pleasure,

00:32:16.900 then you've given

00:32:17.860 away the whole game.

00:32:18.860 You actually have

00:32:19.360 to offer something

00:32:19.860 different.

00:32:20.520 So when we talk,

00:32:21.340 I love the introduction

00:32:22.460 to say,

00:32:23.260 why do these stories

00:32:24.640 captivate us?

00:32:26.240 Why do they maybe

00:32:26.900 have meaning?

00:32:27.340 Why have they maybe

00:32:27.880 helped us live

00:32:28.980 in civilization

00:32:29.640 for millennia before?

00:32:31.820 You have to keep

00:32:32.900 following that line

00:32:34.040 of thought.

00:32:34.820 You have to say,

00:32:35.280 why does it seem

00:32:36.120 that they have meaning?

00:32:37.180 Is it possible

00:32:37.900 that they're actually

00:32:39.040 meaningful?

00:32:39.720 Is it possible

00:32:40.160 that there actually

00:32:40.700 is a truth there

00:32:41.780 that is correct

00:32:42.760 in principle,

00:32:43.840 not just as a matter

00:32:44.620 of utilitarian convenience?

00:32:45.840 What does it even mean

00:32:46.640 for a story to have meaning?

00:32:47.580 It means that somebody's

00:32:48.300 telling it.

00:32:49.060 If a story just appears,

00:32:50.920 if something just appears

00:32:51.800 out of nowhere,

00:32:52.160 it has no meaning

00:32:52.780 by definition.

00:32:53.960 But if I tell you a story,

00:32:55.180 you know I'm telling you

00:32:56.000 something.

00:32:56.360 I'm telling you about

00:32:57.140 some thought that I have,

00:32:58.240 some vision that I have.

00:32:59.500 And I think when you read,

00:33:00.840 when you look at life

00:33:01.600 and you start to see

00:33:02.380 that it is a story,

00:33:03.340 it does have meaning,

00:33:04.120 you realize it's being told.

00:33:05.220 I mean, you realize

00:33:06.080 you're not the subject,

00:33:07.900 you're not the object of life,

00:33:09.240 you're the subject.

00:33:09.900 So here's a challenging thought

00:33:12.140 that I've been wrestling

00:33:12.860 with the last few weeks.

00:33:14.880 And last night,

00:33:15.740 I had this opportunity

00:33:16.520 to go to a Presbyterian church

00:33:19.180 here in Nashville.

00:33:20.460 I'm not Presbyterian,

00:33:21.760 but I love this time of year.

00:33:24.400 Some call it

00:33:25.020 the most wonderful time

00:33:26.080 of the year.

00:33:27.180 Frank Sinatra, I think.

00:33:27.920 Yeah, and I was looking for

00:33:29.380 things around Middle Tennessee

00:33:32.080 to do sort of in the spirit

00:33:33.540 of the Christmas season.

00:33:35.620 And one of the most

00:33:36.880 beautiful church campuses

00:33:37.800 I've seen anywhere,

00:33:39.760 but certainly in Middle Tennessee

00:33:40.780 is this First Presbyterian church

00:33:42.800 here in Nashville.

00:33:44.080 Beautiful, beautiful campus.

00:33:45.900 And they were having this Caylee,

00:33:48.120 which is a Scottish

00:33:49.080 tree lighting ceremony.

00:33:51.940 And I thought,

00:33:52.200 well, that'd be a wonderful

00:33:52.700 thing to go to.

00:33:53.360 I want to go.

00:33:54.200 And took my family,

00:33:55.800 took some friends,

00:33:56.420 our business partner,

00:33:57.720 Caleb, and his family

00:33:58.500 went with us.

00:33:59.700 And it was wonderful.

00:34:01.980 They had the,

00:34:03.560 I won't get the name right,

00:34:05.520 but the Pipes and Drums

00:34:06.440 of Middle Tennessee,

00:34:07.420 this bagpipe and snare drum group

00:34:10.120 who play, you know,

00:34:11.360 they wear tartans

00:34:12.040 and do traditional

00:34:12.660 Scottish music.

00:34:14.780 And they had the Highland Dancers

00:34:15.940 of Middle Tennessee

00:34:16.660 who came out

00:34:17.760 and did traditional

00:34:18.460 Scottish Highland dancing.

00:34:20.580 And they played

00:34:21.660 traditional songs,

00:34:22.880 but then also Christmas carols

00:34:24.280 on the bagpipes.

00:34:25.480 And it was a wonderful

00:34:26.080 family sort of event.

00:34:28.260 And at one point,

00:34:30.340 Caleb and I were talking

00:34:31.840 about keeping

00:34:33.480 the old ways alive.

00:34:35.340 Because here you're,

00:34:36.980 we're many thousands

00:34:37.780 of miles from Scotland

00:34:38.760 and many centuries

00:34:39.960 removed from the time

00:34:41.080 when the Highland dance

00:34:42.580 was a real thing

00:34:43.400 or the pipe and drums

00:34:44.860 were a real thing, right?

00:34:46.380 But there are people

00:34:48.840 who maintain those traditions,

00:34:50.380 even in a place

00:34:51.080 like Tennessee,

00:34:51.640 so far away.

00:34:52.760 Obviously,

00:34:53.360 in British military,

00:34:54.180 there are people

00:34:54.660 who still play

00:34:55.120 the bagpipes

00:34:55.720 and do the dance. 0.70

00:34:58.640 But you would never

00:35:00.800 find something like this

00:35:02.180 in,

00:35:03.120 it would be very unlikely

00:35:04.100 to find something like this

00:35:05.180 in a Baptist church

00:35:06.000 happening as a form

00:35:08.660 of a Christmas celebration.

00:35:09.540 But here in the

00:35:10.620 Presbyterian church,

00:35:11.440 you would experience it.

00:35:12.860 And that led me

00:35:13.420 to a further thought,

00:35:14.720 which is,

00:35:15.820 I'm going to go

00:35:18.120 to some lessons

00:35:18.700 and carols,

00:35:19.280 which is the great

00:35:19.840 Anglican way

00:35:21.160 of approaching Christmas.

00:35:22.180 They have the nine lessons.

00:35:23.900 Yeah, it's lovely.

00:35:24.580 Yeah, and it's one

00:35:25.580 of my very favorite

00:35:26.100 things to do.

00:35:26.740 I love it so much

00:35:27.360 that I almost flew

00:35:28.420 to Britain

00:35:29.740 just to go to one

00:35:31.480 this year

00:35:31.920 and decided,

00:35:32.440 well, I found some

00:35:33.060 in Middle Tennessee.

00:35:34.040 So I'm going to this...

00:35:35.380 Probably just as good.

00:35:36.260 Yeah.

00:35:36.520 I'm going to this

00:35:37.720 Episcopal church

00:35:38.720 next week

00:35:40.080 that has one

00:35:40.600 here in Middle Tennessee

00:35:41.860 and it's all,

00:35:42.620 it's very musical

00:35:43.380 and there's these

00:35:44.020 wonderful choirs.

00:35:45.000 And then a week later,

00:35:45.920 I'm going to another

00:35:46.660 Presbyterian church

00:35:47.420 that also has one,

00:35:48.260 a different Presbyterian church.

00:35:49.840 And what I realized

00:35:50.480 is all of these churches,

00:35:51.500 are keeping

00:35:53.320 these old traditions alive.

00:35:55.180 Even the idea

00:35:55.960 of the sort of choir

00:35:57.360 and, you know,

00:35:58.600 it's not that churches

00:35:59.160 don't have choirs,

00:35:59.880 but not many churches

00:36:00.660 anymore have choirs.

00:36:02.060 And I thought,

00:36:02.300 well, isn't it interesting

00:36:03.100 that the more liberal

00:36:05.660 denominations

00:36:07.140 are more likely

00:36:08.860 to be keeping

00:36:09.560 the old traditions

00:36:10.660 alive?

00:36:12.220 And so the most liturgic,

00:36:13.640 with the exception

00:36:14.580 of Catholicism,

00:36:15.600 in some ways,

00:36:17.680 although not

00:36:18.080 a full exception,

00:36:19.560 but I will grant

00:36:20.400 that with the exception

00:36:20.960 of the trads,

00:36:22.380 with the exception

00:36:23.000 of the trads,

00:36:24.260 the older high church

00:36:28.480 liturgical churches

00:36:30.640 are the most left-wing,

00:36:31.980 most liberal theologically

00:36:33.140 churches in the country.

00:36:34.400 And yet they are

00:36:35.080 keeping the old traditions

00:36:36.700 alive the most

00:36:38.080 of any of the,

00:36:39.520 and in some ways,

00:36:41.700 isn't that a rebuke

00:36:42.560 of something,

00:36:43.620 there is something

00:36:44.180 about the conservative,

00:36:46.120 I know all these words,

00:36:47.500 we can argue about

00:36:48.420 the meaning of all

00:36:48.940 of these words.

00:36:49.960 But it's interesting

00:36:50.760 that conservatives

00:36:53.400 are less likely

00:36:54.720 to engage

00:36:55.800 in highland dance.

00:36:57.800 Yeah, yeah.

00:36:58.540 Well,

00:36:58.840 conservatives are less likely,

00:37:00.820 but not just highland dance,

00:37:02.040 because you say,

00:37:02.460 well, it's fruity,

00:37:03.200 they dance on their tippy-toes.

00:37:04.600 Well, okay,

00:37:05.160 I mean,

00:37:05.840 better men,

00:37:06.580 far better men than you

00:37:07.680 engaged in highland dance

00:37:08.880 and more skirts 0.78

00:37:09.500 while doing it.

00:37:11.400 But conservatives

00:37:12.840 are far less likely

00:37:13.940 to keep the old

00:37:15.480 religious traditions

00:37:16.240 like the lessons

00:37:17.080 carols alive.

00:37:20.540 What is,

00:37:21.180 you would think,

00:37:21.840 you would think

00:37:22.400 in a sort of

00:37:22.740 definitional way

00:37:23.700 that we would,

00:37:24.700 the conservatives

00:37:25.160 would want to conserve

00:37:26.100 those old traditions.

00:37:26.840 No, I'll tell you the difference.

00:37:27.700 That's not what happened.

00:37:28.680 I'm not sure the,

00:37:29.920 I don't know about the premise.

00:37:31.040 I don't know if that's true.

00:37:31.900 No, I can clarify the premise.

00:37:34.440 I think the word

00:37:35.220 you're looking for,

00:37:36.020 which is often synonymous

00:37:37.500 with conservatives,

00:37:38.620 is the fundamentalists.

00:37:40.000 People who are fundamentalists

00:37:41.400 are the ones

00:37:42.140 who don't want

00:37:42.620 the Highland dance

00:37:43.340 and they don't want,

00:37:43.840 because they say,

00:37:44.440 no, I want to go back

00:37:45.100 to the original.

00:37:45.640 I'm so conservative,

00:37:46.400 I want to go back

00:37:46.880 to the original.

00:37:47.680 But there is paradoxically

00:37:49.100 something very conservative

00:37:50.540 about accepting

00:37:51.900 that time goes on and.

00:37:53.720 No, but I think,

00:37:54.500 go ahead,

00:37:54.980 because I think

00:37:55.560 you're going to say something.

00:37:56.740 Well, I just,

00:37:57.420 I'm not sure about the premise.

00:37:58.860 I mean,

00:38:00.680 because I think

00:38:00.960 one of the defining

00:38:01.640 things about liberals

00:38:02.880 as Christians

00:38:04.580 and also just

00:38:05.580 in the culture generally

00:38:06.420 is that they don't value

00:38:07.680 tradition.

00:38:09.000 So they may keep

00:38:09.920 some traditions alive,

00:38:10.800 but they empty them

00:38:11.480 of meaning typically.

00:38:12.620 But the idea

00:38:16.360 that liberals

00:38:16.940 are more likely

00:38:18.060 to maintain a tradition,

00:38:20.240 I just...

00:38:20.780 Yeah, I went to,

00:38:22.380 I think the leftists

00:38:24.300 infiltrated

00:38:25.020 some of these churches

00:38:26.560 and were wise enough

00:38:27.420 to keep the traditions there

00:38:28.780 while they ate

00:38:29.780 the meaning out of it.

00:38:30.480 Right, exactly.

00:38:30.940 They keep the form of it,

00:38:32.300 maybe in some cases.

00:38:33.760 But I think

00:38:34.440 that it's fair to say.

00:38:34.940 It's supposed to be

00:38:35.160 a cultural Christianity

00:38:36.020 point from earlier

00:38:36.780 that nobody ever answered,

00:38:38.560 but I think

00:38:40.220 that's kind of

00:38:40.620 the same idea.

00:38:41.100 Cultural Christianity

00:38:42.080 so-called

00:38:43.380 is keeping

00:38:44.400 some of the forms

00:38:45.180 of these things,

00:38:46.480 putting up the Christmas tree,

00:38:47.720 et cetera,

00:38:48.940 but emptying

00:38:49.880 of all of its spiritual

00:38:51.340 and also historical meaning.

00:38:53.120 But at least in America,

00:38:54.060 the answer to it

00:38:54.820 seems to be,

00:38:56.180 again,

00:38:56.580 with the exception

00:38:57.040 of the trad Catholics,

00:38:58.460 that the people

00:38:59.820 who are most likely

00:39:00.960 to say

00:39:01.700 that they are

00:39:02.540 religious conservatives,

00:39:04.480 the people

00:39:04.780 who are the most likely

00:39:05.600 to say

00:39:06.000 that they believe

00:39:06.700 that the Bible

00:39:07.240 is literally true.

00:39:08.220 And we can argue

00:39:08.920 about what literally

00:39:09.620 true even means.

00:39:10.780 That's not exactly

00:39:11.600 the conversation

00:39:12.980 I'm trying to have here.

00:39:14.480 Those people

00:39:15.120 are the least likely

00:39:16.300 not only to engage

00:39:17.620 in the Highland dance,

00:39:18.720 but the least likely

00:39:19.900 to engage in liturgy,

00:39:21.320 the least likely

00:39:21.900 to know what Advent is,

00:39:23.300 the least likely

00:39:24.020 to have a choir

00:39:25.020 in their church.

00:39:26.020 And yet,

00:39:26.340 they are the most likely

00:39:27.160 to actually believe

00:39:28.080 in the religion

00:39:28.660 of their church.

00:39:28.860 Well, because part of that

00:39:29.560 is because they're Protestants,

00:39:30.560 though,

00:39:30.700 and they decided

00:39:31.800 that all the things

00:39:32.680 that the Catholics

00:39:33.200 were doing were bad

00:39:34.160 and got rid of them all.

00:39:35.520 And that's why.

00:39:35.800 I guess some of the Protestants 0.93

00:39:37.480 would argue,

00:39:37.740 and I totally disagree,

00:39:38.940 but they would argue

00:39:39.560 that, well,

00:39:39.900 they're going to reject

00:39:40.440 some of that stuff

00:39:40.980 because it's not

00:39:41.520 traditional enough.

00:39:43.100 And that stuff

00:39:44.040 was invented later,

00:39:45.060 and so they want

00:39:45.480 to go back to the Bible.

00:39:46.440 There's no stare decisis,

00:39:47.380 in other words.

00:39:48.540 It's like an originalist

00:39:49.420 argument about the Constitution,

00:39:50.680 basically.

00:39:51.120 They're just saying,

00:39:51.620 like, if you go back

00:39:51.940 to the Gospel,

00:39:52.420 there's no Highland dance

00:39:53.060 in the Gospel.

00:39:53.560 There's no reason

00:39:53.940 we should be doing that.

00:39:54.660 Right, yeah.

00:39:55.220 And so, you know,

00:39:56.340 I certainly hear that argument.

00:39:57.420 I think there's also

00:39:58.200 a tendency...

00:39:59.080 But there's also

00:39:59.760 no, like,

00:40:00.260 e-sus-for

00:40:01.120 in the first century

00:40:04.860 church either,

00:40:05.400 and it's in every Protestant...

00:40:06.440 Have you listened

00:40:06.700 to the Psalms of David,

00:40:07.720 though?

00:40:07.900 Are you certain?

00:40:09.140 I mean,

00:40:09.760 but I do think

00:40:10.320 there may be

00:40:10.840 a broader point here,

00:40:11.660 which is that,

00:40:12.340 you know,

00:40:12.860 in a culture that,

00:40:13.980 as Matt says,

00:40:14.800 has been infiltrated

00:40:15.580 in so many ways,

00:40:16.560 where we're,

00:40:17.020 you know,

00:40:17.260 these sort of old rituals

00:40:18.540 and old things

00:40:19.800 have been worn around

00:40:20.780 like Hannibal Lecter's

00:40:22.140 face mask, right?

00:40:23.040 Like, they've been

00:40:23.520 emptied of meaning

00:40:24.380 and then worn around as...

00:40:25.820 But what you've seen,

00:40:26.740 this is true in politics also,

00:40:28.280 is there's a tendency

00:40:29.040 on the right to say, 0.79

00:40:30.440 well, to hell

00:40:30.740 with the whole thing, 0.99

00:40:31.280 we're just gonna blow up

00:40:31.940 this thing entirely.

00:40:32.980 That's not salvageable anymore.

00:40:34.620 It's not that we're gonna

00:40:35.080 seize it back

00:40:35.740 or we're gonna re-enter,

00:40:36.960 we're gonna kind of

00:40:37.920 re-infuse it with meaning,

00:40:39.320 we just have to blow

00:40:39.820 the whole thing up.

00:40:40.980 And you get the tendency,

00:40:42.680 I mean,

00:40:42.880 you understand it.

00:40:43.880 If you think,

00:40:44.580 for example,

00:40:44.940 that Christmas has been

00:40:45.580 so commercialized

00:40:46.300 that a Christmas tree

00:40:46.980 literally means nothing,

00:40:47.880 it has no bearing

00:40:48.660 on Christmas anymore,

00:40:49.740 you can see somebody saying,

00:40:50.440 okay, well,

00:40:50.740 there's no Christmas tree

00:40:51.400 in our house

00:40:51.880 because, after all,

00:40:53.080 all it means is

00:40:53.680 commercialism at Macy's

00:40:54.700 or something.

00:40:55.360 You can see why

00:40:55.980 somebody would say that,

00:40:56.700 whether you agree with it

00:40:57.300 or disagree with it.

00:40:58.120 I mean,

00:40:58.540 I went to a very

00:40:59.560 liturgical church in LA

00:41:01.660 and my joke was

00:41:02.860 it was the bottom

00:41:03.360 of the hill where I lived

00:41:04.300 so I said,

00:41:04.980 if a Muslim place 0.78

00:41:06.460 was at the bottom

00:41:07.020 of the hill,

00:41:07.620 I'd gone there

00:41:07.980 just to stay out of traffic.

00:41:10.260 But it was deeply liturgical,

00:41:12.340 deeply, you know,

00:41:13.020 good choir,

00:41:14.020 all the things

00:41:14.740 you're talking about.

00:41:16.020 But I had to leave

00:41:16.780 because the guy

00:41:17.320 would then get up

00:41:18.420 and give these sermons

00:41:19.320 that were absolutely corrupt.

00:41:21.940 You know, 0.85

00:41:22.120 they were corrupt religiously, 0.93

00:41:23.420 they were corrupt logically, 1.00

00:41:24.280 they were corrupt spiritually. 0.98

00:41:24.980 And finally, 0.91

00:41:25.780 I just thought,

00:41:26.200 you know,

00:41:26.500 I love this liturgy,

00:41:27.620 I love everything

00:41:28.400 that's going on

00:41:28.980 until this guy

00:41:29.480 opens his mouth

00:41:30.220 and then I just...

00:41:30.900 I do want to be clear

00:41:32.540 that I'm not suggesting

00:41:34.340 anything about

00:41:34.980 the First Presbyterian

00:41:35.980 Church of Nashville.

00:41:36.560 I didn't go to

00:41:37.320 one of their sermons.

00:41:38.140 I'm only generally saying

00:41:39.540 that the Presbyterian Church

00:41:40.900 or the Episcopal Church,

00:41:42.220 broadly speaking,

00:41:43.240 tend to be more progressive.

00:41:45.100 They are,

00:41:45.380 but this is why

00:41:46.780 cultural Christianity

00:41:47.920 is a doomed 0.90

00:41:49.740 and offensive project

00:41:50.660 and I appreciate

00:41:51.600 the desire,

00:41:52.680 at least the desire

00:41:53.600 for beauty and tradition

00:41:54.760 might lead one

00:41:55.720 in a good direction,

00:41:56.600 but it's just so hopeless

00:41:57.980 and despairing

00:41:58.780 and it will lead you nowhere.

00:42:00.320 It's just so sad

00:42:01.220 because it has to be real.

00:42:02.600 And this gets to your point,

00:42:03.480 Jeremy,

00:42:04.000 on the distinction

00:42:04.700 that I would put

00:42:05.640 as being one between

00:42:06.600 conserving and tradition

00:42:08.220 and fundamentalism,

00:42:09.840 which is fundamentally

00:42:10.520 revolutionary

00:42:11.120 because you're saying,

00:42:11.960 forget about 2,000 years,

00:42:12.960 I want to go back

00:42:13.440 to my image

00:42:13.960 of what the first century was.

00:42:15.940 It has to be real.

00:42:17.880 You know,

00:42:18.160 if the religion is real,

00:42:19.420 as I believe it is,

00:42:20.560 if our Lord really is

00:42:21.380 who he says he is,

00:42:21.920 as I believe he is,

00:42:23.000 then that is lived.

00:42:25.480 That's not just written

00:42:26.700 on the pages of a book.

00:42:27.540 That is lived

00:42:28.120 in the lives of men

00:42:29.300 for 2,000 years,

00:42:30.220 more than 2,000 years,

00:42:31.100 going back many,

00:42:31.720 many thousands of years,

00:42:32.500 actually.

00:42:33.000 That's got to be real

00:42:33.940 and lived.

00:42:34.580 If it's just like

00:42:35.960 nice buildings or something,

00:42:37.920 I don't know,

00:42:38.240 Yale and Harvard.

00:42:38.920 I don't know.

00:42:39.380 I'm going to argue with you

00:42:40.240 that I think cultural Christianity

00:42:41.220 is really important,

00:42:42.000 but not as a final goal.

00:42:43.380 Yes.

00:42:43.720 As a stepping stone.

00:42:44.920 As a stepping stone it is

00:42:46.040 because, again,

00:42:46.760 you do need that bridge

00:42:47.580 and I think that the fact

00:42:48.820 that there are people,

00:42:49.480 because, again,

00:42:50.280 the sort of Laplace argument

00:42:51.480 to Napoleon

00:42:52.040 has been the winning argument

00:42:53.440 for the last couple

00:42:54.240 hundred years,

00:42:54.940 even though it's a really

00:42:55.420 crappy argument.

00:42:56.240 There's this famous story

00:42:57.000 that Napoleon is talking

00:42:57.780 to Laplace,

00:42:58.300 he's a mathematician,

00:42:59.220 and he says,

00:42:59.800 where's God in your theories?

00:43:00.880 And Laplace says,

00:43:01.640 he's unnecessary.

00:43:02.720 He's unnecessary to the theory.

00:43:04.260 And that's been sort of

00:43:05.140 the scientific take

00:43:06.520 on religion

00:43:06.940 for a very long time.

00:43:08.220 And so the cultural Christian,

00:43:10.000 take Richard Dawkins,

00:43:11.380 who's a fundamentalist atheist.

00:43:13.520 He really does not believe in God,

00:43:15.600 thinks the Bible is kind of bad,

00:43:17.300 and all the rest of this stuff.

00:43:18.340 When he says,

00:43:19.280 but I'm going to acknowledge

00:43:20.120 the civilization is built

00:43:21.060 on this thing,

00:43:21.920 that is the first step

00:43:22.860 toward the thing.

00:43:23.380 I agree with you,

00:43:23.860 as an end point,

00:43:24.380 it doesn't do anything.

00:43:24.900 It remains a cut flower

00:43:26.140 in a vase, right?

00:43:26.680 It needs to be reconnected

00:43:27.640 with its roots.

00:43:28.920 But is it actually a step?

00:43:31.300 I was just thinking,

00:43:32.200 I think the answer

00:43:34.880 for a secularist is yes.

00:43:36.660 Again, that goes back

00:43:37.360 to the importance point.

00:43:38.380 Once you say that it's,

00:43:39.300 once you say that it's an important thing.

00:43:40.500 In a way you're saying

00:43:41.120 cultural Christianity

00:43:41.900 might be bad 0.82

00:43:42.880 in a nation full of Christians, 1.00

00:43:44.500 but cultural Christianity

00:43:45.320 might be good

00:43:46.160 in a culture of Christianity.

00:43:47.140 That's exactly what I'm saying.

00:43:49.500 It's a way station.

00:43:50.360 It's either a way station out

00:43:51.220 or a way station in.

00:43:52.340 Because we're in a fundamentally

00:43:53.120 secular age,

00:43:54.240 I think it's more of a way station

00:43:55.140 in than a way station out.

00:43:56.140 I think there are very few Christians

00:43:57.240 who are looking

00:43:57.800 at cultural Christianity

00:43:58.860 and going,

00:43:59.340 hey, this is cool.

00:43:59.880 I can just say it's important

00:44:00.600 but not do anything

00:44:01.260 Christianity says.

00:44:02.300 There are a lot of secularists

00:44:03.340 who are looking at

00:44:03.960 cultural Christianity

00:44:04.600 and going,

00:44:04.900 hey, I never thought about

00:44:05.640 Christianity

00:44:06.620 as something even important

00:44:08.580 in my life.

00:44:09.900 I mean, frankly,

00:44:10.580 it's an argument

00:44:10.960 that I've used myself

00:44:11.960 a lot with regard to religion.

00:44:13.620 You know, I say to people

00:44:14.780 that when people say

00:44:16.480 they believe in God,

00:44:17.800 I don't think that people

00:44:18.800 believe in God

00:44:19.440 the way they think

00:44:19.840 they believe in God.

00:44:20.380 Meaning, it's not,

00:44:21.180 maybe for Michael,

00:44:22.380 you know, he approached it

00:44:23.100 from an intellectual point of view.

00:44:24.400 I don't think most people

00:44:25.060 when they say they believe in God

00:44:26.020 it's because they're going

00:44:26.780 through the ontological argument.

00:44:28.120 It's not an intellectual

00:44:28.980 engagement with God

00:44:30.000 that makes you believe in God.

00:44:31.680 You believe in God

00:44:32.380 because you live in God

00:44:33.300 because all the fundamental

00:44:34.140 premises in your life

00:44:35.000 are godly premises

00:44:35.860 and you live in those premises.

00:44:37.380 And the truth is

00:44:37.800 a bunch of secular people

00:44:38.720 also live in those premises.

00:44:40.480 And when you make clear to them

00:44:41.400 they live in those premises

00:44:42.180 then maybe it's worthwhile

00:44:43.640 for them to start

00:44:44.360 investigating the source.

00:44:45.360 But cultural Christianity,

00:44:46.760 I agree, it's a way station

00:44:47.660 in or out.

00:44:48.060 I think it's a good way

00:44:48.640 of putting it.

00:44:49.040 But for us right now

00:44:50.820 we're in the way station

00:44:52.540 out phase I would argue.

00:44:54.080 So that's why I would say

00:44:55.360 cultural Christianity.

00:44:55.540 I'm more pessimistic than you

00:44:57.100 as usual.

00:44:58.360 I think that's an ongoing argument.

00:45:01.380 I don't know about that.

00:45:02.700 As usual may be wrong.

00:45:04.440 So what you're arguing

00:45:05.360 is that we were a Christian nation

00:45:06.900 and then we way stationed out

00:45:08.420 to cultural Christianity

00:45:09.020 and then became secular

00:45:10.080 and now we're coming back this way?

00:45:11.140 Yes.

00:45:12.120 So that's, no,

00:45:13.060 that's not more pessimistic.

00:45:14.400 I have the more pessimistic.

00:45:15.260 No, no, I'm not saying

00:45:16.160 it's all the way up.

00:45:17.100 Well, okay, so you're more

00:45:18.260 pessimistic about the future

00:45:19.420 and I'm more pessimistic

00:45:20.120 about the status quo.

00:45:21.020 Meaning I think that there's

00:45:21.800 so many people who are

00:45:22.600 outside the religion

00:45:23.400 that you need a way station

00:45:25.180 back in.

00:45:26.080 Whereas you're saying

00:45:26.880 there are a lot of religious

00:45:27.460 people who are looking

00:45:28.140 for a way station.

00:45:29.480 Think how anti-intellectual

00:45:31.320 Richard Dawkins is.

00:45:32.740 And I like Richard Dawkins

00:45:33.840 as a science writer actually

00:45:34.920 but he never thinks through

00:45:36.760 anything that he says.

00:45:38.060 And when he's,

00:45:38.460 when you say,

00:45:39.740 gee, I like,

00:45:40.920 I want to keep some

00:45:41.900 of this cultural Christianity

00:45:42.820 alive as Dawkins now does

00:45:44.380 in his waning years

00:45:45.980 and don't think

00:45:47.280 the next step

00:45:48.300 that why do I want

00:45:49.420 to do that?

00:45:49.920 You know,

00:45:50.400 Mary Harrington,

00:45:51.280 this brilliant

00:45:51.840 kind of former left,

00:45:54.120 far left-wing feminist,

00:45:55.780 Oxford student.

00:45:57.280 She has conversations

00:45:58.040 with my son Spencer.

00:45:58.900 I do not understand

00:45:59.600 what either of them

00:46:00.340 are saying.

00:46:00.920 They're so far away

00:46:02.080 in this intellectual world.

00:46:03.440 She had a baby

00:46:04.100 and she said,

00:46:05.360 I like this baby.

00:46:06.440 I like taking care

00:46:07.240 of this baby.

00:46:07.940 And it changed,

00:46:08.760 she had the intellectual

00:46:09.820 integrity to follow

00:46:12.360 that thought

00:46:13.080 into a new way

00:46:13.980 of thinking.

00:46:14.580 And Dawkins

00:46:15.380 never does that.

00:46:16.680 And it drives me

00:46:17.680 crazy about it.

00:46:18.400 It just seems like

00:46:19.620 so much of the

00:46:20.400 cultural Christianity

00:46:21.060 is a Christmas tree

00:46:22.260 which is lots of fun

00:46:23.320 and presents.

00:46:23.820 I wonder if

00:46:25.340 maybe you should have

00:46:26.320 more grace for Dawkins.

00:46:27.580 Not in the sense that

00:46:28.300 you are wrong

00:46:29.780 to ask him to go all the way.

00:46:30.840 I mean,

00:46:30.960 I think that if you're a Christian

00:46:32.020 you want people

00:46:32.460 to go all the way.

00:46:33.600 But I think that

00:46:34.780 the point is

00:46:36.440 that the fundamental

00:46:37.740 assertion by him

00:46:38.920 of the importance

00:46:39.660 of even Christianity

00:46:40.800 to his project

00:46:41.760 is going to lead

00:46:42.740 some of his followers

00:46:43.500 to say,

00:46:44.560 hey, wait a second,

00:46:45.140 maybe I should take

00:46:45.560 a look at this thing.

00:46:47.300 That's pretty optimistic.

00:46:48.240 When you have the truth.

00:46:49.500 When you have Jordan

00:46:50.500 having that conversation

00:46:51.320 with him

00:46:52.160 and Jordan

00:46:53.420 is encouraging people,

00:46:54.300 okay, well then

00:46:54.600 maybe you should,

00:46:55.120 maybe,

00:46:55.600 because the next logical

00:46:57.100 step that you could say

00:46:57.760 to him if you're having

00:46:58.280 that conversation is,

00:46:59.100 I totally agree with you

00:47:00.260 that Christianity 0.95

00:47:01.680 lies at the heart

00:47:02.440 of our civilization.

00:47:03.520 But the thing

00:47:03.980 that you're celebrating,

00:47:04.760 which is a beautiful building

00:47:05.700 in the middle of Paris,

00:47:06.540 if you're looking

00:47:07.000 at Notre Dame,

00:47:07.980 means nothing

00:47:09.040 if there's not anybody

00:47:10.380 in there worshipping Christ.

00:47:11.780 I mean,

00:47:12.000 it's just a big building

00:47:12.880 and then that's the end

00:47:13.700 of the building

00:47:14.100 and a thousand years from now

00:47:15.860 it'll probably be knocked down

00:47:17.100 and if it's not,

00:47:17.700 it'll just be empty.

00:47:18.360 Or it'll have as much meaning

00:47:19.580 as the pantheon in Rome.

00:47:20.180 But it's still a practical thing.

00:47:21.680 Rome, right?

00:47:22.180 I mean,

00:47:22.340 it won't mean anything.

00:47:23.720 Nobody's worshipping 0.98

00:47:24.480 the Roman gods

00:47:25.960 in that building.

00:47:26.960 It's just a really nice building.

00:47:27.960 And so does that have

00:47:28.560 any sort of interior meaning

00:47:29.940 to the civilization?

00:47:30.860 Not really.

00:47:32.660 Yeah, you know,

00:47:33.580 it's funny you bring up Notre Dame

00:47:34.480 because part of what

00:47:35.280 I've been thinking about

00:47:35.960 as I've been wrestling

00:47:38.260 with this question

00:47:39.020 of, you know,

00:47:40.020 the liberal denominations

00:47:41.280 tending to keep

00:47:42.200 certain kinds

00:47:42.740 of tradition alive

00:47:43.580 and I'm interested

00:47:45.780 in your idea

00:47:46.360 about fundamentalism

00:47:47.300 versus conservatism.

00:47:49.140 I'll spend time on that

00:47:50.220 in my thinking.

00:47:52.040 But I thought about Notre Dame

00:47:53.360 because they rebuilt

00:47:54.440 the building

00:47:54.880 after the fire

00:47:55.540 and to everyone's surprise

00:47:58.040 they seem to have

00:47:59.060 really honored

00:47:59.700 the building that was

00:48:01.340 instead of trying

00:48:01.840 to reimagine it

00:48:02.560 as a building

00:48:02.940 that could be.

00:48:03.500 And put a pool

00:48:03.820 on top right now.

00:48:04.280 Yeah.

00:48:05.920 But even that

00:48:07.300 it did occur to me

00:48:08.440 is only good

00:48:10.980 in a post-Christian Europe.

00:48:15.260 And even

00:48:15.960 and I mentioned to Mathis

00:48:18.080 that I may bring this up

00:48:18.860 and I said

00:48:19.080 Michael will disagree with me

00:48:20.140 but I think if he thinks

00:48:20.920 about this for a minute

00:48:21.680 he may not disagree with me.

00:48:23.420 Which is

00:48:23.820 we romanticize

00:48:26.180 the cathedrals of Europe.

00:48:28.080 I romanticize

00:48:29.400 the cathedrals of Europe.

00:48:31.120 I'm to a point now

00:48:32.320 where

00:48:32.820 listen I go to a lovely

00:48:33.940 Baptist church

00:48:34.580 here in Middle Tennessee

00:48:35.360 filled with wonderful people

00:48:38.280 I love the pastor

00:48:39.040 he has a real vision

00:48:39.720 for his fellowship.

00:48:43.300 I don't agree

00:48:45.240 completely with Baptist theology

00:48:46.640 but it's a very good place

00:48:47.540 for me

00:48:47.920 to have my family right now

00:48:49.320 and I enjoy the church.

00:48:52.700 But every time I'm there

00:48:53.660 and it's a beautiful building

00:48:54.600 every time I'm there

00:48:55.360 my heart sort of longs

00:48:56.800 to be in the UK.

00:48:58.220 Like I want to be

00:48:59.420 at St. Albans

00:49:00.280 or I want to be

00:49:00.900 at St. Paul's

00:49:01.700 I want to be in one of these

00:49:02.520 thousand year old cathedrals

00:49:04.460 but I've begun to realize

00:49:08.120 that even my view

00:49:10.300 of those

00:49:10.840 thousand year old cathedrals

00:49:12.140 I'm seeing it

00:49:13.200 through the

00:49:13.540 the flattening

00:49:15.000 you know

00:49:15.400 when we look at history

00:49:16.060 we tend to flatten it

00:49:16.960 and we'll say things like

00:49:19.240 imagine starting a work

00:49:20.960 that your great grandchild

00:49:22.060 would have to finish

00:49:22.860 which is what people

00:49:24.240 often say about the cathedrals

00:49:25.380 and I think

00:49:26.960 well first of all

00:49:27.460 you misunderstand time

00:49:28.620 completely

00:49:29.100 because they didn't

00:49:30.460 start a work

00:49:30.900 that their great

00:49:31.380 grandchildren would finish

00:49:32.360 they started a work

00:49:33.280 that their great

00:49:33.880 great great great

00:49:34.860 great great great

00:49:35.800 great great great

00:49:36.500 great grandchildren

00:49:37.340 would finish

00:49:37.920 these buildings

00:49:39.220 were started as

00:49:40.180 wood structures

00:49:41.500 replaced by stone structures

00:49:43.500 that then burned down

00:49:44.640 because the roof was thatched

00:49:45.780 replaced by another

00:49:46.980 stone structure

00:49:47.760 that then fell over

00:49:48.800 because they weren't

00:49:49.280 very good at building

00:49:49.920 stone structures

00:49:50.560 and then they built

00:49:51.340 a third stone structure

00:49:52.300 and that one stayed

00:49:53.060 and then they expanded it

00:49:55.360 and then they tore 0.93

00:49:56.060 the roof down

00:49:56.680 by the 1200s

00:49:57.520 they could build the

00:49:58.280 what do you call

00:50:00.900 the arches

00:50:01.380 the flying buttresses

00:50:02.360 yeah

00:50:02.860 the flying buttresses

00:50:03.920 yes

00:50:04.200 and then they

00:50:05.220 spires

00:50:05.900 and then stained glass

00:50:06.700 and this goes on

00:50:07.440 and on

00:50:07.720 and on

00:50:08.000 and on

00:50:08.260 until the Victorian era

00:50:09.560 and then they were

00:50:10.400 just all done

00:50:10.980 yeah

00:50:11.700 and we now

00:50:13.000 think of them

00:50:13.840 as done

00:50:14.600 but they were never

00:50:17.200 intended to be done

00:50:18.100 yeah

00:50:18.360 other than Sagrada Familia

00:50:19.620 that's right

00:50:20.160 which is still not done

00:50:21.860 but will be

00:50:22.320 but there is this idea

00:50:24.540 that when the guy

00:50:25.420 started it

00:50:26.040 his great grandchild

00:50:26.980 would finish it

00:50:27.500 not only did you

00:50:28.000 leave out a bunch

00:50:28.460 of greats

00:50:29.000 but you misunderstood

00:50:29.660 understood the premise

00:50:30.320 yeah

00:50:30.640 he started it

00:50:31.560 thinking it would

00:50:32.160 never be complete

00:50:33.480 the tragedy is

00:50:35.360 we look at them now

00:50:36.360 a hundred years

00:50:37.160 or more

00:50:37.980 past their completion

00:50:39.660 yeah

00:50:40.100 and the thing

00:50:40.640 that we long for

00:50:41.680 isn't

00:50:42.480 I actually think

00:50:43.800 I agree

00:50:44.240 I agree with this

00:50:44.860 but here's the funny thing

00:50:45.820 at every stage

00:50:47.420 the traditionalists

00:50:48.860 hated what they did

00:50:49.700 no no flying buttresses

00:50:51.060 it's been a thatched roof

00:50:52.040 for 200 years

00:50:53.020 we should

00:50:54.240 we should maintain

00:50:55.060 what was old

00:50:55.580 but the religion

00:50:56.500 was alive

00:50:57.280 the truth is

00:50:58.540 when we look at

00:50:59.680 the beautiful cathedrals

00:51:00.660 at Europe

00:51:01.240 we're looking at

00:51:02.520 proof that the religion

00:51:03.720 died 120 years ago

00:51:05.920 I would go further

00:51:06.540 I would go further

00:51:07.240 than that

00:51:07.480 I agree with

00:51:08.000 basically every point

00:51:08.800 you've made

00:51:09.160 traditionalism

00:51:10.600 you know

00:51:11.320 as an ideology

00:51:12.100 is pretty recent

00:51:13.700 and it's a reaction

00:51:15.060 to modernity

00:51:16.420 and it's a reaction

00:51:17.180 to the cracking up

00:51:18.020 of the faith

00:51:18.440 right

00:51:18.800 but the truth is

00:51:19.920 if Christianity 0.50

00:51:21.200 in Europe

00:51:21.720 hadn't died

00:51:22.560 those cathedrals

00:51:23.860 would have modernist

00:51:25.020 components to it

00:51:26.100 because they would have

00:51:27.020 kept building them

00:51:27.900 or would modernism

00:51:29.240 even happen

00:51:29.740 modernism

00:51:30.260 is a problem

00:51:31.660 right there

00:51:32.200 but they would not

00:51:34.000 look like they look

00:51:34.780 there would be

00:51:35.600 120 years of

00:51:36.560 modernity

00:51:37.160 it's just that

00:51:39.240 the buildings

00:51:40.440 that modernism

00:51:41.220 and its children

00:51:42.160 produced 0.96

00:51:42.620 are so hideous

00:51:43.560 because the faith

00:51:45.040 died

00:51:45.360 the modern churches

00:51:46.480 are built

00:51:47.080 I mean the fundamental

00:51:48.780 problem is they're built

00:51:49.520 like they're embarrassed

00:51:50.240 to be churches

00:51:50.800 they don't want anyone

00:51:52.420 to know that God's

00:51:53.320 being worshipped

00:51:53.780 as if

00:51:54.920 as if we're back

00:51:56.260 in the catacombs

00:51:56.820 and we have to hide

00:51:57.560 but of course

00:51:58.180 that's not the case

00:51:58.720 at all

00:51:59.080 and that's the problem

00:52:00.740 with those churches

00:52:01.920 but I agree with your

00:52:02.640 basic point

00:52:03.580 what we're actually

00:52:04.380 longing for

00:52:05.220 we're not longing

00:52:07.280 for that moment

00:52:08.600 we're longing for

00:52:09.960 the time

00:52:11.100 before time stopped

00:52:12.440 there was a great

00:52:13.040 we're longing for the time

00:52:14.060 when the faith

00:52:14.600 was alive

00:52:14.960 we're longing for

00:52:15.560 the time

00:52:16.060 when Bach

00:52:17.380 could sit down

00:52:18.300 and write

00:52:18.920 a song like a minute

00:52:20.700 you know

00:52:21.060 a song in the same time

00:52:21.860 it would take you

00:52:22.300 to make up a limerick

00:52:23.940 basically that was

00:52:25.280 explosively beautiful

00:52:27.160 like beyond beauty

00:52:28.200 because that was

00:52:28.960 what was in it

00:52:29.620 you know

00:52:30.140 and I think that

00:52:30.660 that's the problem

00:52:31.320 if that's missing

00:52:31.880 but America

00:52:32.700 was never a part

00:52:33.920 of that tradition

00:52:34.520 America has always been 0.57

00:52:36.940 utilitarian

00:52:39.640 disposable

00:52:40.360 no in America

00:52:42.160 you start a church

00:52:43.360 in a cafeteria

00:52:44.300 at an elementary school

00:52:45.340 that's closed

00:52:45.920 and then you buy

00:52:47.120 a small church

00:52:47.940 that's been abandoned

00:52:49.380 and then you build

00:52:50.240 a church

00:52:50.620 and then 20 years later

00:52:51.520 you build a bigger church

00:52:52.360 and I'm not even knocking

00:52:53.980 that because at least

00:52:54.920 that's not European 0.99

00:52:56.120 it doesn't result

00:52:56.820 in these beautiful buildings

00:52:57.920 but it is still alive

00:52:59.480 Christianity has still 1.00

00:53:00.320 been alive here

00:53:00.980 and that's how

00:53:01.680 you know

00:53:02.240 we don't have family

00:53:03.100 country homes

00:53:03.860 like they do in England

00:53:04.600 either

00:53:04.920 where your family

00:53:05.760 lives in the same

00:53:06.340 house for a thousand years

00:53:07.660 we have a disposable

00:53:08.940 approach to this

00:53:09.760 an innovative approach

00:53:10.800 to it

00:53:11.020 people also like

00:53:12.360 to be involved

00:53:13.060 in the building

00:53:13.460 yeah

00:53:14.120 really

00:53:14.440 I mean if you're

00:53:14.880 a part of a community

00:53:15.440 people like being

00:53:16.240 involved in the building

00:53:16.880 like we're dedicating

00:53:17.720 contributing to it

00:53:18.660 yeah exactly

00:53:19.200 adding on to it

00:53:20.380 like adding new rooms

00:53:21.400 changing the structure

00:53:22.340 of it

00:53:22.720 and growing the

00:53:23.600 footprint of it

00:53:24.280 and the minute

00:53:24.900 that it stops growing

00:53:25.780 it's dying

00:53:26.200 then it just becomes

00:53:27.360 a bunch of 70 year olds

00:53:28.280 who are in a fading

00:53:29.120 church that's beautiful

00:53:30.040 but it was finished

00:53:30.720 30 years ago

00:53:31.360 and there's no young

00:53:32.000 blood in there

00:53:32.560 to actually make it

00:53:33.800 you know

00:53:34.260 but this is

00:53:34.820 I think this is also

00:53:35.920 why I love Christmas

00:53:37.540 music this time of year

00:53:38.420 I know Michael

00:53:38.860 won't listen to Christmas

00:53:39.580 music for three more weeks

00:53:40.600 until 12.01 a.m.

00:53:42.660 on Christmas

00:53:43.100 no it's

00:53:43.440 the Thanksgiving Day

00:53:44.660 parade is over

00:53:45.220 that's right

00:53:45.520 but when I say

00:53:46.740 I love Christmas

00:53:47.320 what I mean in particular

00:53:49.720 is I love the Christmas

00:53:50.840 music from the

00:53:51.740 great American

00:53:52.160 songbook era

00:53:52.860 yeah yeah

00:53:53.540 because

00:53:54.180 I knew there was

00:53:55.420 something I liked

00:53:55.960 about you

00:53:56.300 because that's when

00:53:57.440 America was still alive

00:53:58.740 yes that's what gives

00:54:00.960 us this beautiful

00:54:01.640 wistful

00:54:02.080 no no no

00:54:02.400 we've talked about

00:54:03.460 that before

00:54:03.900 we've talked about

00:54:04.500 this before

00:54:04.900 I'm talking about

00:54:05.740 something different

00:54:06.300 that is Christmas

00:54:08.140 music because that

00:54:09.340 is when America

00:54:10.040 was culturally still

00:54:10.940 alive

00:54:11.300 yes good point

00:54:12.360 I listen to

00:54:13.360 I listen to Taylor

00:54:14.160 Swift and I'm not

00:54:14.940 a Taylor Swift hater

00:54:16.380 I think she's a

00:54:17.360 genuine talent

00:54:18.100 no she's not

00:54:20.460 but go ahead

00:54:20.960 but I listen

00:54:21.540 I listen to her

00:54:22.360 Christmas song today

00:54:23.380 and then I listen

00:54:24.540 to a Christmas song

00:54:25.120 by Ed Sheeran

00:54:25.760 and Elton John

00:54:26.240 I think Ed Sheeran

00:54:26.980 is incredibly talented

00:54:27.940 but they're beyond

00:54:29.780 the culture is gone

00:54:30.740 they're very talented

00:54:31.740 people who live

00:54:32.400 after the culture

00:54:32.980 they don't feel

00:54:33.540 like Christmas songs

00:54:34.340 and they don't feel

00:54:35.060 like Christmas

00:54:35.460 Paul McCartney

00:54:36.760 killed Christmas songs

00:54:37.720 he murdered

00:54:40.080 we cut to commercial 0.95

00:54:41.040 he tortured them

00:54:42.040 they died after

00:54:42.960 Paul McCartney

00:54:43.380 this man is not

00:54:44.320 having a wonderful

00:54:44.900 Christmas

00:54:45.220 nor a wonderful

00:54:47.080 war is over

00:54:47.980 we're going to hear

00:54:50.140 more from our

00:54:50.860 sponsor Halo

00:54:51.520 right now

00:54:52.140 Halo Halo

00:54:53.060 Halo Halo

00:54:53.900 Halo oh my god

00:54:54.620 Halo's a video game

00:54:55.660 I told them never

00:54:56.500 let me read any app

00:54:57.720 they just put it

00:54:58.360 right there

00:54:58.740 we're going to hear

00:55:00.120 from our wonderful

00:55:00.640 sponsor Halo

00:55:01.720 while I eat this

00:55:02.540 cracker

00:55:02.960 fight with Matt

00:55:03.900 about well everything

00:55:05.140 but Paul McCartney

00:55:05.780 in particular

00:55:06.420 and then we'll be

00:55:07.600 right back

00:55:08.160 it can be so easy

00:55:17.140 to get busy

00:55:17.800 and distracted

00:55:18.600 during the holidays

00:55:19.680 easy to lose focus

00:55:24.420 easy to lose sight

00:55:26.600 of what this season

00:55:27.740 is really about

00:55:28.800 for God so loved the world

00:55:31.760 that he gave us

00:55:32.900 his only son

00:55:33.680 don't lose sight

00:55:35.920 this advent

00:55:36.480 pray every day

00:55:37.880 on Halo

00:55:38.520 so my

00:55:42.940 my

00:55:43.260 my premise

00:55:44.380 we actually were arguing

00:55:45.460 about Paul McCartney

00:55:46.240 well my premise

00:55:47.360 in conclusion

00:55:47.860 is that the things

00:55:48.600 that we long for

00:55:49.400 are actually

00:55:49.980 civilizations

00:55:50.720 that are thriving

00:55:51.820 or civilizations

00:55:52.980 in which the faith

00:55:53.820 was thriving

00:55:54.360 to maybe make it

00:55:55.540 central to what

00:55:57.400 we've been talking

00:55:57.880 about the whole time

00:55:58.700 and I think it's even

00:55:59.980 true for my friends

00:56:01.160 the Jews too

00:56:01.860 because when you see

00:56:03.160 when you see

00:56:04.340 Orthodox Jews

00:56:05.440 who are wearing

00:56:06.040 whenever anyone uses

00:56:07.220 my friends the Jews

00:56:08.100 yeah 1.00

00:56:08.300 just before they kill you 0.84

00:56:10.000 right

00:56:10.140 in fairness

00:56:11.700 I've only got two

00:56:12.520 but when you see

00:56:15.740 Jewish people

00:56:16.380 traditional Jewish people

00:56:17.600 wearing the black hat

00:56:18.480 and the black suit

00:56:19.280 and you think

00:56:20.560 oh man

00:56:21.380 they're the most

00:56:21.840 traditionalist Jewish guys

00:56:22.860 around

00:56:23.220 and then you go

00:56:23.660 well no

00:56:24.000 they have a 3500 year old

00:56:25.880 religion

00:56:26.200 and they're wearing

00:56:27.120 a 100 year old

00:56:28.100 costume

00:56:28.780 but they're doing

00:56:30.380 the exact same thing

00:56:31.460 as me wanting to be

00:56:32.420 in a cathedral

00:56:33.100 from the Victorian era

00:56:34.520 they're going back

00:56:35.200 to the time

00:56:35.880 when Judaism

00:56:37.020 in Poland

00:56:37.600 was thriving

00:56:38.280 and they're longing

00:56:39.960 they're not actually

00:56:40.860 longing for their

00:56:41.580 ancestral religion

00:56:43.260 they're longing for

00:56:44.400 their religion

00:56:45.440 being alive

00:56:46.160 in the culture

00:56:46.660 that's right

00:56:46.940 they're locking

00:56:48.000 in amber

00:56:48.660 a particular way

00:56:49.600 of life

00:56:49.960 because that's

00:56:50.900 exactly the time

00:56:51.760 when the enlightenment

00:56:52.240 started

00:56:52.660 they're doing

00:56:53.860 the same thing

00:56:54.280 the enlightenment

00:56:54.960 started

00:56:55.320 and they said

00:56:55.600 okay well you know

00:56:56.100 what we've got right now

00:56:57.040 we've got to protect that

00:56:57.740 time to bubble it off

00:56:58.620 and that's what we're

00:56:59.300 going to do

00:56:59.600 but there are

00:57:00.340 obviously thriving

00:57:01.460 wings of Judaism

00:57:02.140 in the Orthodox community

00:57:03.380 that are very different

00:57:04.240 and have evolved

00:57:04.820 in a very different way

00:57:05.660 of course

00:57:06.120 and you can see it

00:57:06.680 when you go to Israel

00:57:07.640 you can see all the

00:57:08.040 different modes of dress

00:57:08.660 and you can see

00:57:09.160 by actual yarmulke type

00:57:11.400 you can identify

00:57:12.340 exactly the ideology

00:57:13.220 of the person

00:57:13.740 who's wearing the yarmulke

00:57:14.420 you really can't

00:57:15.300 it's an actual thing

00:57:15.960 if they're wearing

00:57:16.680 a velvet yarmulke

00:57:17.280 they're probably

00:57:17.780 of the ultra-Orthodox

00:57:19.220 Haredi black hat sect

00:57:20.240 if they're wearing

00:57:20.940 what's called

00:57:21.400 a keepa surugah

00:57:21.880 like a woven keepa

00:57:22.820 which is what I wear

00:57:24.420 then they would be

00:57:25.200 what's known as

00:57:25.880 datilumi

00:57:26.320 which is sort of

00:57:27.320 Zionist 1.00

00:57:29.820 modern Orthodox

00:57:30.740 I like the

00:57:32.720 one that looks

00:57:34.600 like a piece of matzah 0.99

00:57:35.440 it's very whimsical

00:57:36.100 I call it

00:57:38.480 the Encino

00:57:39.640 reform

00:57:40.380 Jewish

00:57:41.340 usually it's on a woman 0.92

00:57:42.800 yeah exactly

00:57:43.640 but it is interesting

00:57:46.520 how these things

00:57:47.500 about

00:57:47.660 but I think

00:57:48.340 that one of the things

00:57:48.980 that's interesting

00:57:49.400 about the Christmas music

00:57:50.240 of the 50s

00:57:50.780 and the 40s

00:57:51.840 is that there's

00:57:52.520 a wistfulness

00:57:53.000 about it

00:57:53.660 because

00:57:54.040 I think even then

00:57:55.400 they can sense

00:57:55.920 that there's something

00:57:56.500 happening in the culture

00:57:57.280 like the glimmerings

00:57:58.840 of something not so great

00:57:59.760 happening

00:58:00.000 and even there

00:58:01.160 they're nostalgic

00:58:02.300 about being home

00:58:03.320 they're longing for

00:58:04.260 a white Christmas

00:58:04.800 part of it is because

00:58:05.480 of the war

00:58:05.920 yeah yeah

00:58:06.760 some of it is because

00:58:07.500 of war

00:58:07.780 but a lot of it

00:58:08.360 is also just because

00:58:09.160 there's something

00:58:09.960 they feel is calling

00:58:10.780 them away

00:58:11.280 from sort of

00:58:11.800 those ancestral roots

00:58:13.340 and so they're

00:58:14.360 feeling like

00:58:15.260 they're sort of

00:58:15.820 almost on the outside

00:58:16.540 looking in

00:58:17.060 and I think that's why

00:58:18.360 those things are perennial

00:58:19.000 I mean you can listen

00:58:19.560 to that stuff now

00:58:20.180 and it still hits

00:58:20.700 and there's no irony

00:58:22.440 there's no irony

00:58:23.220 you want an authentic period

00:58:24.940 it's so funny

00:58:25.300 we're such a 1.00

00:58:25.920 our society's dumb 1.00

00:58:27.400 because we're obsessed 1.00

00:58:29.020 with authenticity

00:58:29.560 but then we're ironic

00:58:30.820 about the actual

00:58:31.460 authentic people

00:58:32.140 it turns out people

00:58:33.020 in 30s 40s and 50s

00:58:33.940 were actually

00:58:34.180 pretty unironic

00:58:35.620 but what you're

00:58:36.140 getting at is

00:58:36.980 when Jesus said

00:58:38.140 the thing that comes

00:58:38.940 out of your mouth 0.72

00:58:39.480 is important

00:58:39.920 because that's

00:58:40.320 what's in your heart

00:58:40.980 that's what we're

00:58:42.140 really talking about

00:58:42.880 if the heart is empty

00:58:43.640 it doesn't matter

00:58:44.060 what building you build

00:58:44.940 and if the heart

00:58:45.720 is full of God

00:58:46.660 you'll build a beautiful

00:58:47.580 building ultimately

00:58:48.340 there is a strange

00:58:49.700 thing in that

00:58:50.340 I really really love

00:58:51.740 cathedrals

00:58:52.260 as much as you do

00:58:53.660 I think

00:58:54.020 but you really love

00:58:54.640 cathedrals too

00:58:55.180 and I really love

00:58:57.040 them

00:58:57.200 and I want to be

00:58:57.960 I love high liturgy

00:58:59.240 and I think it's

00:58:59.820 not only beautiful

00:59:00.660 but important

00:59:01.300 and I think God

00:59:02.140 wants to be worshipped

00:59:03.080 in reverent

00:59:03.780 serious ways

00:59:04.380 and maybe the most

00:59:06.100 thriving parish

00:59:06.940 I've ever been in

00:59:07.900 the mass takes place

00:59:10.120 in a tiny little room

00:59:11.140 in the parish hall

00:59:11.760 because the church

00:59:12.260 was wrecked by a tornado

00:59:13.140 and it takes place

00:59:14.260 in this tiny little room

00:59:14.980 and everyone's packed in

00:59:15.720 and there's a thousand kids

00:59:16.560 and they're all sitting

00:59:17.120 on top of each other

00:59:17.860 and they're crying

00:59:18.620 and screaming 0.96

00:59:19.120 and there's a small

00:59:19.900 little altar up there

00:59:20.760 and it is

00:59:21.440 as unornamented

00:59:23.200 as a church can be

00:59:24.720 but it's all real

00:59:26.820 this is right

00:59:27.220 and everyone thinks

00:59:28.220 it's real

00:59:28.560 the people inside

00:59:29.380 a place of worship

00:59:29.980 make it a place

00:59:30.840 of worship

00:59:31.180 right

00:59:31.380 I just came back

00:59:33.060 from Israel

00:59:33.400 and one of the places

00:59:33.940 that we were in

00:59:34.540 was a place where

00:59:35.540 it's called

00:59:36.580 a Hester Yeshiva

00:59:37.780 so this is like

00:59:38.400 a place where

00:59:39.160 kids study

00:59:39.740 like 18, 19 years old

00:59:40.720 but in this particular

00:59:41.580 place where they study

00:59:42.320 it's a joint program

00:59:43.300 with the army

00:59:43.720 so they study

00:59:44.620 and they also

00:59:45.160 all serve in the army

00:59:45.760 so it's not like

00:59:46.260 when you think of Yeshiva

00:59:47.060 you think of kids

00:59:47.620 who are like avoiding

00:59:48.160 the army in Israel

00:59:48.800 there's like a whole segment

00:59:50.240 and so these people

00:59:50.780 come in on Friday night

00:59:51.760 and you know

00:59:52.680 they're all going to be

00:59:53.280 in Lebanon

00:59:53.740 like the next morning

00:59:54.740 and they're all

00:59:56.180 praying to God

00:59:57.120 and they're singing

00:59:58.440 these songs

00:59:58.940 and it's like

00:59:59.300 this is probably

01:00:00.260 400 kids

01:00:00.960 and it's amazing

01:00:03.100 I mean the word

01:00:04.140 in Hebrew is

01:00:04.520 kavano

01:00:04.800 which means to

01:00:05.460 it means intent

01:00:06.820 but it really is

01:00:07.480 it comes from

01:00:08.280 to like cling to God

01:00:09.640 so it's about

01:00:10.340 clinging to God

01:00:11.080 when you feel that

01:00:11.740 anywhere you are

01:00:12.320 that's going to be

01:00:12.900 the mark of the religion

01:00:14.300 and this place

01:00:14.680 I mean the Yeshiva

01:00:15.500 itself wasn't anything

01:00:16.260 special to look at

01:00:17.080 it was basically

01:00:17.840 a cafeteria of learning

01:00:18.920 but I bet people

01:00:20.000 I'm thinking of two

01:00:21.260 one parish I was in

01:00:22.120 in New York

01:00:22.420 one parish here

01:00:23.380 it doesn't matter

01:00:25.500 if it's unornamented

01:00:26.540 or you know

01:00:26.920 you're in circumstances

01:00:27.760 but I have noticed

01:00:29.840 people do naturally

01:00:31.620 want then ornamented

01:00:34.040 with themselves

01:00:34.980 with their art

01:00:36.820 with their

01:00:37.300 you know

01:00:37.700 it just

01:00:38.060 it comes

01:00:38.840 don't worry

01:00:39.380 if you get the

01:00:40.420 essentials correct

01:00:41.880 and the interior life

01:00:42.940 of the people correct

01:00:43.860 the cathedral

01:00:45.720 will build itself

01:00:46.400 that's it

01:00:46.940 that's it

01:00:47.680 you know

01:00:48.220 I just have this

01:00:49.360 strange thought

01:00:50.680 which I present to you

01:00:51.620 without having thought

01:00:52.280 it through

01:00:52.500 people are always

01:00:53.800 accusing Ben

01:00:54.400 of having dual loyalty

01:00:55.380 accusing Jews

01:00:56.200 but Ben

01:00:56.740 being a king

01:00:57.860 of the Jews 0.57

01:00:58.300 lowercase k

01:01:01.580 it occurs to me

01:01:04.320 that we should all

01:01:04.860 have a dual loyalty

01:01:05.580 to Israel

01:01:06.060 because it is

01:01:07.060 the place

01:01:07.500 that God

01:01:07.840 hallowed

01:01:08.220 with his presence

01:01:08.840 and it is

01:01:09.420 like still

01:01:10.360 the living

01:01:11.100 presence is there

01:01:12.560 if you've ever

01:01:13.480 been there

01:01:13.860 you know it is

01:01:14.580 and it's like

01:01:15.880 even St. Paul

01:01:17.780 says that

01:01:18.200 God is not done

01:01:18.960 with the Jews

01:01:19.460 God is not done

01:01:20.220 with the Jews

01:01:20.460 at least we should

01:01:21.020 have dual loyalty

01:01:21.640 to the papal states

01:01:22.520 do those still exist

01:01:23.440 are they still around

01:01:25.200 a minute ago

01:01:26.480 you ruined my brain

01:01:27.800 thought

01:01:28.120 but I don't mind

01:01:29.340 a minute ago

01:01:30.320 I referred to my

01:01:30.980 friends the Jews

01:01:31.580 and said there were

01:01:32.000 only two

01:01:32.460 one of them has Ben

01:01:33.360 and the other is

01:01:34.700 our pal Dennis Prager

01:01:35.900 and we can't talk

01:01:36.560 about Jordan Peterson's

01:01:38.320 gospel series

01:01:39.000 which is available

01:01:39.600 at Daily Wire Plus

01:01:40.300 without talking

01:01:41.420 about our friend Dennis

01:01:42.040 the last time we

01:01:42.880 the five of us

01:01:43.780 sat here

01:01:44.240 it was one month

01:01:45.320 ago the day

01:01:45.920 after the election

01:01:47.200 of Donald Trump

01:01:48.240 to be our 47th

01:01:49.140 president

01:01:49.460 or 48th

01:01:50.920 depending on how

01:01:51.380 the next 55 days

01:01:52.960 overall go

01:01:53.840 but Dennis was

01:01:56.200 right here with us

01:01:57.100 and as people

01:01:58.480 at home probably

01:01:59.540 are aware

01:02:00.240 only a few days

01:02:01.720 later after returning

01:02:02.660 to his home in LA

01:02:03.280 Dennis had a terrible

01:02:04.420 accident

01:02:05.420 and has been

01:02:07.480 in the hospital

01:02:07.960 since that time

01:02:08.980 Dennis is one

01:02:10.240 of the major voices

01:02:11.300 in this gospel

01:02:12.240 series

01:02:13.320 and during

01:02:14.800 his time

01:02:15.300 shooting it

01:02:15.860 I got to have

01:02:17.380 dinner with

01:02:18.140 he and his wife

01:02:18.700 Sue

01:02:19.020 and Dennis

01:02:20.360 talked about

01:02:20.840 the making

01:02:21.240 of this

01:02:21.620 with Jordan

01:02:22.140 and what he

01:02:22.820 thought his

01:02:23.200 role was

01:02:23.920 as you know

01:02:25.120 sort of

01:02:25.840 an outsider

01:02:26.400 among outsiders

01:02:27.100 I mean if no

01:02:27.580 if no one

01:02:28.140 involved in

01:02:28.600 well not

01:02:29.060 not no one

01:02:29.560 but if many

01:02:30.200 of the panelists

01:02:30.740 here are sort

01:02:31.300 of heterodox

01:02:31.820 in their

01:02:32.180 in their

01:02:33.320 thinking

01:02:33.640 Jordan

01:02:34.000 you know

01:02:34.260 Jordan's 0.51

01:02:34.720 not Christian 0.98

01:02:36.100 at all

01:02:36.420 I mean he's

01:02:36.860 he's

01:02:37.400 one of the most

01:02:38.920 famous Jewish

01:02:39.420 figures

01:02:39.820 probably in the

01:02:40.880 world

01:02:41.060 certainly in the

01:02:41.640 country

01:02:41.960 and what

01:02:44.700 Dennis told me

01:02:45.240 is that he

01:02:45.580 thought certainly

01:02:46.720 he had things

01:02:47.360 to offer about

01:02:48.300 Christianity's 0.68

01:02:49.840 role in the

01:02:50.360 world as an

01:02:51.280 outsider

01:02:51.620 kind of like

01:02:52.060 the writers

01:02:52.740 of the Christmas

01:02:53.160 songs

01:02:53.480 he had ideas

01:02:55.640 about the

01:02:56.080 connection

01:02:56.480 of the text

01:02:57.460 back to things

01:02:58.140 like Exodus

01:02:58.680 which he thought

01:02:59.800 were really

01:03:00.080 valuable

01:03:00.420 but he also

01:03:01.300 thought that

01:03:01.680 part of what

01:03:02.100 he brought

01:03:02.540 to it

01:03:02.960 was levity

01:03:03.720 he said

01:03:04.740 you know

01:03:04.980 you've got

01:03:05.560 these great

01:03:06.220 minds

01:03:06.600 and Dennis

01:03:07.000 is no slouch

01:03:07.900 Dennis is a

01:03:08.940 brilliant guy

01:03:09.720 but Dennis

01:03:10.980 has this

01:03:11.460 real charm

01:03:12.020 which is that

01:03:12.560 he's still

01:03:13.420 very connected

01:03:14.520 to the human

01:03:15.620 in a way

01:03:16.500 that sometimes

01:03:17.040 intellectuals are

01:03:17.780 not

01:03:18.100 and Dennis

01:03:19.220 as you watch

01:03:20.260 this series

01:03:20.800 it's so

01:03:21.980 wonderful to

01:03:22.460 see him

01:03:22.860 sort of

01:03:23.440 grab these

01:03:24.460 big thinkers

01:03:24.980 and pull 0.59

01:03:25.740 them back

01:03:26.260 to the human

01:03:27.860 because obviously

01:03:28.520 if the church

01:03:30.400 isn't filled

01:03:30.940 with people

01:03:32.260 of faith

01:03:32.640 then it's

01:03:33.020 a meaningless

01:03:33.600 body

01:03:33.960 and if

01:03:35.240 your theology

01:03:36.380 isn't ultimately

01:03:37.120 in service

01:03:37.680 of humans

01:03:38.460 I mean

01:03:38.740 it's because

01:03:39.380 God so loved

01:03:39.960 the world

01:03:40.300 that he sent

01:03:40.720 his son

01:03:41.100 which is what

01:03:42.020 the Gospels

01:03:42.780 is all about

01:03:43.420 and so

01:03:44.820 here's a clip

01:03:47.120 of Dennis

01:03:47.620 on

01:03:48.640 the first episode

01:03:50.640 of the Gospels

01:03:51.380 which I think

01:03:52.360 just sort of

01:03:52.720 perfectly captures

01:03:53.620 his

01:03:54.480 contribution

01:03:56.300 to the work

01:03:57.520 here's Dennis

01:03:58.320 the death

01:04:00.660 of Christianity

01:04:01.500 frightens me 0.56

01:04:03.160 it is my

01:04:04.480 nightmare

01:04:05.000 and I ask

01:04:07.140 people all

01:04:07.780 the time

01:04:08.460 name me

01:04:09.640 one ideology

01:04:10.620 that has

01:04:11.420 supplanted

01:04:12.080 Christianity

01:04:12.700 that has

01:04:13.720 done good

01:04:14.380 for humanity

01:04:15.280 and nobody

01:04:16.980 can come up

01:04:17.660 with an answer

01:04:18.320 there is a

01:04:21.160 quote attributed

01:04:22.060 to G.K.

01:04:22.800 Chesterton

01:04:23.260 though it's

01:04:24.300 not verifiable

01:04:25.860 that he actually

01:04:26.640 said it

01:04:27.140 but it's

01:04:27.740 brilliant

01:04:28.160 when people

01:04:29.420 stop believing

01:04:30.120 in God

01:04:30.760 they don't

01:04:31.880 believe in

01:04:32.360 nothing

01:04:32.660 they believe

01:04:33.880 in anything

01:04:34.480 and as I

01:04:36.220 point out

01:04:36.800 on my radio

01:04:37.620 show

01:04:38.100 each day

01:04:39.580 I probably

01:04:40.380 say this

01:04:40.940 once a week

01:04:41.680 only secular

01:04:43.240 people say

01:04:43.920 men give 0.50

01:04:44.380 birth

01:04:44.760 not all

01:04:46.660 secular

01:04:47.040 people say

01:04:47.700 that

01:04:48.020 but only

01:04:49.280 secular

01:04:49.720 people say

01:04:50.420 that

01:04:50.720 we have

01:04:52.180 entered

01:04:52.720 a post

01:04:53.720 Christian

01:04:54.220 or really

01:04:54.980 post Judeo

01:04:55.880 Christian

01:04:56.280 world of 0.74

01:04:57.340 the absurd

01:04:57.880 I see

01:04:59.660 Christianity

01:05:00.380 as a

01:05:02.180 divinely

01:05:02.940 ordained

01:05:04.920 vehicle

01:05:05.420 to bring

01:05:06.020 the world

01:05:06.540 to the

01:05:07.040 Torah

01:05:07.280 so I

01:05:09.380 have a

01:05:09.720 very pro

01:05:10.500 Christian

01:05:11.160 Jewish

01:05:12.000 based

01:05:12.480 view

01:05:12.940 it hasn't

01:05:14.660 always been

01:05:15.180 done right

01:05:15.780 but

01:05:17.300 Christians

01:05:18.360 are human

01:05:18.960 and human

01:05:20.320 nature is

01:05:20.860 awful

01:05:21.760 or at least

01:05:23.200 not particularly

01:05:24.680 good

01:05:25.180 so people 0.66

01:05:26.100 can screw

01:05:26.660 up anything

01:05:27.300 but when

01:05:28.600 done properly

01:05:29.440 and I think

01:05:30.340 America

01:05:30.800 and Britain

01:05:31.860 have been

01:05:32.320 particularly

01:05:32.860 good

01:05:33.320 it was

01:05:34.420 Christians

01:05:34.860 who abolished

01:05:35.540 slavery

01:05:36.000 it's also

01:05:38.060 Christians

01:05:38.580 who made

01:05:39.140 the

01:05:39.400 who made

01:05:40.240 the Inquisition

01:05:41.040 I'm well

01:05:42.880 aware I wrote

01:05:43.380 a book on

01:05:43.840 anti-Semitism

01:05:44.620 and I pray

01:05:46.280 that Christians

01:05:46.940 come forth

01:05:48.040 now

01:05:48.940 and

01:05:49.480 speak out

01:05:50.980 against

01:05:51.460 a raging

01:05:52.560 anti-Semitism

01:05:53.420 that I

01:05:54.020 did not think

01:05:54.940 I would see

01:05:55.420 in my lifetime

01:05:56.240 but nevertheless

01:05:58.460 this Jew 0.99

01:06:01.120 this Westerner

01:06:02.540 is very

01:06:04.640 frightened

01:06:05.140 of a

01:06:06.060 post-Christian 0.98

01:06:06.680 society

01:06:07.420 that's our

01:06:09.800 friend Dennis

01:06:10.220 Prager

01:06:10.600 in Jordan

01:06:11.400 Peterson's

01:06:11.960 new series

01:06:12.500 the Gospels

01:06:13.080 at Daily Wire

01:06:13.620 Plus

01:06:13.960 and for those

01:06:14.940 of you who

01:06:15.360 have been

01:06:16.000 following along

01:06:16.600 with Dennis'

01:06:17.560 ordeal

01:06:17.880 and praying

01:06:18.260 for Dennis

01:06:18.680 we thank you

01:06:19.260 for that

01:06:19.660 obviously

01:06:20.340 such a good

01:06:21.700 friend to

01:06:22.120 all of us

01:06:22.660 on the panel

01:06:23.120 and to Ben

01:06:23.480 and I

01:06:23.820 these last

01:06:24.780 many years

01:06:25.260 in particular

01:06:25.860 and Dennis'

01:06:28.020 situation

01:06:28.360 is quite

01:06:28.860 serious

01:06:29.200 but there

01:06:29.660 is great

01:06:30.100 hope

01:06:30.320 and he's

01:06:30.600 shown a

01:06:30.940 lot of

01:06:31.160 progress

01:06:31.620 in the

01:06:34.000 weeks

01:06:34.280 since his

01:06:34.800 accident

01:06:35.180 and I

01:06:36.140 know that

01:06:36.500 it must

01:06:37.500 be

01:06:37.780 what an

01:06:38.260 amazing

01:06:38.520 thing

01:06:38.820 Dennis'

01:06:40.300 worldview

01:06:40.740 central to

01:06:41.740 his worldview

01:06:42.140 is the

01:06:42.400 idea that

01:06:42.840 happiness

01:06:43.160 is a

01:06:43.520 moral

01:06:43.720 obligation

01:06:44.320 and here

01:06:45.160 he is

01:06:45.360 in this

01:06:45.560 very

01:06:45.920 difficult

01:06:46.340 moment

01:06:47.080 and he's

01:06:48.260 certainly

01:06:48.660 sad

01:06:49.580 but he

01:06:51.060 isn't

01:06:51.280 depressed

01:06:51.660 his worldview

01:06:52.420 is being

01:06:52.780 tested

01:06:53.140 and he's

01:06:54.340 standing up

01:06:54.820 to the

01:06:55.040 test

01:06:55.260 which is

01:06:55.520 a beautiful

01:06:55.860 thing

01:06:56.240 even in a

01:06:56.740 really tragic

01:06:57.300 moment

01:06:59.020 and I can't

01:07:02.000 help but wonder

01:07:02.640 what it must feel

01:07:03.180 like to be him

01:07:03.740 and know that

01:07:04.220 millions of people

01:07:05.040 are praying for you

01:07:05.720 what a powerful

01:07:07.240 thing to experience

01:07:08.180 you know my

01:07:08.680 daughter got very

01:07:09.920 ill when she had

01:07:10.820 her second child

01:07:12.360 and her life

01:07:13.980 was under threat

01:07:14.860 and my wife

01:07:16.600 was sitting there

01:07:17.100 and she said

01:07:17.420 she could feel

01:07:18.040 the people

01:07:18.460 outside praying

01:07:19.400 for him

01:07:19.780 she knew they

01:07:20.820 were and she

01:07:21.280 felt it come

01:07:21.780 into the room

01:07:22.360 and my wife

01:07:23.400 is not particularly

01:07:24.240 a mystic

01:07:24.760 or anything

01:07:25.060 like that

01:07:25.440 but she said

01:07:25.820 it was there

01:07:26.200 and I know

01:07:26.960 Dennis has said

01:07:28.620 this too

01:07:28.960 that the people

01:07:30.000 who have spoken

01:07:30.460 to him

01:07:30.760 says he feels

01:07:31.620 it too

01:07:31.940 I said

01:07:33.180 when we heard

01:07:33.960 that Dennis

01:07:34.320 had this

01:07:34.840 accident

01:07:35.380 I said

01:07:37.180 to Elisa

01:07:37.800 that night

01:07:38.440 I said

01:07:38.900 Dennis had

01:07:39.840 this very

01:07:40.220 serious accident

01:07:41.080 and her reaction

01:07:42.480 was a very

01:07:43.040 human reaction

01:07:43.800 basically my

01:07:44.780 reaction

01:07:45.260 when you came

01:07:45.760 to tell me

01:07:46.160 in my studio

01:07:46.720 which is

01:07:47.500 she said

01:07:47.960 no no no

01:07:48.580 but we were

01:07:49.040 just with him

01:07:49.660 four days ago

01:07:50.620 and he was

01:07:51.440 so vivacious

01:07:52.320 and he said

01:07:54.040 on air

01:07:54.440 this is the best

01:07:55.180 day of my life

01:07:57.300 get me a glass

01:07:58.200 of alcohol

01:07:58.760 for the first time

01:07:59.800 in 75 years

01:08:00.800 and that's a very

01:08:02.880 human reaction

01:08:03.460 because you say

01:08:03.860 no no no

01:08:04.260 whenever anything

01:08:05.300 bad happens

01:08:06.040 to any of your

01:08:06.420 friends

01:08:06.580 you say

01:08:06.800 no no no

01:08:07.300 that can't

01:08:08.160 possibly be true

01:08:09.000 because yesterday

01:08:09.820 it wasn't true

01:08:10.480 but you know

01:08:11.580 ain't that just

01:08:12.080 how it goes

01:08:12.640 and Dennis

01:08:13.940 is well aware

01:08:14.620 of that

01:08:14.900 you know

01:08:15.140 Dennis is a

01:08:15.840 wise guy

01:08:16.400 he's not

01:08:16.840 he's quite

01:08:18.760 clear on these

01:08:20.320 things

01:08:20.440 Dennis is a

01:08:21.240 magnificent human

01:08:21.760 being as we all

01:08:22.220 know

01:08:22.400 and I think

01:08:23.340 that one of

01:08:23.920 the things

01:08:24.180 that has to be

01:08:25.000 a special comfort

01:08:26.260 to his family

01:08:27.200 is that so many

01:08:28.300 of the people

01:08:28.700 who are praying

01:08:29.440 for him

01:08:29.780 are people

01:08:30.260 who didn't

01:08:31.160 used to pray

01:08:31.760 and then started

01:08:32.720 listening to his

01:08:33.440 show and started

01:08:33.980 listening to Dennis

01:08:34.580 and now are people

01:08:35.640 who actually believe

01:08:36.260 in God and pray

01:08:36.920 so many of the

01:08:37.520 people who are

01:08:38.400 now calling out

01:08:39.420 to God

01:08:39.760 on his behalf

01:08:40.380 are people he

01:08:40.860 brought to God

01:08:41.260 in the first place

01:08:41.840 I have heard

01:08:44.580 Dennis talk about

01:08:45.500 many times

01:08:46.360 you know

01:08:47.280 being

01:08:47.700 the interesting

01:08:49.860 position that he

01:08:50.820 occupies

01:08:51.340 which is that

01:08:52.020 his sort of

01:08:54.060 mission in life

01:08:54.740 has been to

01:08:55.280 lead people

01:08:55.920 back to Judaism 1.00

01:08:57.920 lead Jews 1.00

01:08:59.020 who have fallen

01:08:59.560 away from Judaism 1.00

01:09:00.240 back to Judaism 1.00

01:09:00.920 and yet along the way

01:09:02.380 he's probably led

01:09:03.580 more Christians

01:09:04.200 back to Christianity 1.00

01:09:05.120 than most pastors

01:09:05.980 ever have

01:09:06.520 because of the thing

01:09:08.020 that is so special

01:09:08.640 about Dennis

01:09:09.040 which is

01:09:09.440 that he really

01:09:10.920 does remember

01:09:11.580 the human

01:09:12.020 he

01:09:12.800 you know

01:09:13.560 Dennis

01:09:13.900 would rather

01:09:15.340 talk to you

01:09:15.920 about music

01:09:16.580 than about

01:09:17.780 the ultimate issues

01:09:18.980 one of the most

01:09:20.160 wonderful things

01:09:21.100 about Dennis

01:09:21.460 is that when you

01:09:22.180 are in mixed

01:09:23.320 company with Dennis

01:09:24.020 he wants to talk

01:09:25.040 about disposable

01:09:26.200 diapers with the

01:09:27.100 women at the table 0.94

01:09:27.800 he just

01:09:28.880 whatever the most

01:09:29.760 human thing

01:09:30.320 that could be

01:09:31.080 discussed

01:09:31.400 that's the thing

01:09:32.320 that fascinates

01:09:32.980 him the most

01:09:33.880 and for that reason

01:09:35.000 he's reached

01:09:35.740 a lot of those

01:09:36.740 humans that he

01:09:37.240 cares so much about

01:09:38.020 and God willing

01:09:39.500 will continue to

01:09:40.260 in the future

01:09:41.060 and certainly

01:09:41.740 does in this

01:09:42.240 gospel series

01:09:43.000 I think

01:09:45.000 that we're

01:09:45.280 going to take

01:09:45.640 a few questions

01:09:46.420 from our

01:09:46.780 Daily Wire Plus

01:09:47.660 members who

01:09:48.600 make it possible

01:09:49.080 for us to be here

01:09:49.740 if you're not a

01:09:50.220 member head over

01:09:51.000 to Daily Wire Plus

01:09:51.700 we're offering

01:09:52.100 50% off

01:09:52.980 our Cyber Monday

01:09:53.860 sale best sell

01:09:54.840 of the year

01:09:55.420 and if you are

01:09:56.340 a subscriber

01:09:56.760 we thank you

01:09:57.340 and we'll take

01:09:57.660 some questions

01:09:58.080 from you right now

01:09:58.880 question number

01:09:59.700 one for the group

01:10:00.520 speaking of

01:10:01.180 biblical texts

01:10:02.100 do you believe

01:10:03.120 the New Testament

01:10:03.760 teachings

01:10:04.280 outweigh the

01:10:05.260 teachings of

01:10:05.940 the Old Testament

01:10:06.860 that means you

01:10:07.200 all go first

01:10:07.640 that is the

01:10:10.580 correct answer

01:10:11.100 outweigh would

01:10:12.920 certainly not be

01:10:13.620 the way to

01:10:13.980 phrase it

01:10:14.340 the New Testament

01:10:15.520 if you're a

01:10:15.880 Christian you

01:10:16.160 believe the New

01:10:16.520 Testament is a

01:10:17.020 fulfillment of

01:10:18.500 the Old Testament

01:10:19.080 but it's not

01:10:20.480 like the two are

01:10:20.960 in competition

01:10:21.520 and one wins

01:10:22.580 out

01:10:22.860 and in fact

01:10:23.280 they can't be

01:10:24.340 in competition

01:10:24.700 that's the

01:10:25.820 Marcyan heresy

01:10:26.480 right

01:10:26.740 so there aren't

01:10:28.640 things in the

01:10:29.060 Old Testament

01:10:29.460 that are now

01:10:30.000 negated or

01:10:31.000 abolished or

01:10:31.680 they don't count

01:10:32.160 anymore

01:10:32.500 not a jawed or 0.93

01:10:33.220 tittle

01:10:33.660 which is an

01:10:35.260 important point

01:10:35.780 when you get

01:10:36.080 into even

01:10:36.820 public policy

01:10:38.160 things

01:10:38.560 issues like

01:10:39.420 for example

01:10:39.860 the death

01:10:40.240 penalty

01:10:40.580 and some

01:10:43.340 Christians believe

01:10:44.040 that well

01:10:44.300 because of what

01:10:44.800 the New Testament

01:10:45.420 says we can't

01:10:46.640 believe in the

01:10:47.040 Old Testament

01:10:47.320 well in the

01:10:47.920 Old Testament

01:10:48.300 God commands 0.88

01:10:49.000 a death 0.97

01:10:49.280 penalty

01:10:49.560 so we know

01:10:51.060 that it can't

01:10:51.540 be an inherently

01:10:52.500 evil act

01:10:53.320 and the Old

01:10:54.360 Testament has

01:10:54.780 not been

01:10:55.260 outweighed

01:10:56.540 St. Paul also

01:10:57.680 defends the

01:10:58.220 death penalty

01:10:58.660 explicitly in the

01:10:59.580 epistles

01:10:59.840 it's one book

01:11:01.220 it's one book

01:11:01.840 it doesn't make

01:11:03.440 any sense

01:11:03.840 any other way

01:11:04.420 and the beauty

01:11:05.100 the beauty

01:11:06.000 of the echoing

01:11:07.040 themes

01:11:08.180 in the

01:11:08.840 New Testament

01:11:09.700 that run

01:11:10.420 through the

01:11:10.860 Old Testament

01:11:11.320 could not

01:11:13.920 have been

01:11:14.220 conceived by

01:11:14.860 any mind

01:11:15.700 maybe Shakespeare

01:11:16.560 could have

01:11:16.880 come up with

01:11:17.220 something

01:11:17.460 maybe he

01:11:18.420 could have

01:11:18.680 come up

01:11:18.920 with something

01:11:19.340 that intricately

01:11:20.220 interwoven

01:11:21.180 but you can't

01:11:22.720 pulling them

01:11:23.640 apart it's like

01:11:24.160 pulling the

01:11:24.500 bones out of a

01:11:25.040 fish

01:11:25.200 you just can't

01:11:25.800 do it

01:11:26.080 it's also

01:11:27.920 not to belabor

01:11:28.820 the point

01:11:29.140 the New Testament

01:11:30.220 is inexplicable

01:11:31.520 it is not

01:11:32.160 possible to

01:11:32.840 understand it

01:11:33.600 except through

01:11:34.740 the lens of

01:11:35.200 the Old Testament

01:11:35.540 and the Christian

01:11:36.460 believes the Old Testament

01:11:37.280 is inexplicable

01:11:38.640 outside the lens

01:11:39.500 of the New Testament

01:11:40.060 so they are

01:11:40.540 to your point

01:11:41.060 true

01:11:41.240 it is one

01:11:42.600 cohesive whole

01:11:43.520 another interesting

01:11:44.300 thing about that

01:11:44.840 is that even

01:11:45.320 when Christ

01:11:45.940 was walking

01:11:48.100 among men

01:11:48.720 as recounted

01:11:51.080 in the Gospels

01:11:51.880 the connection

01:11:54.020 between the Old

01:11:55.180 Testament

01:11:55.540 and the theology

01:11:57.240 of Christ

01:11:57.820 still wasn't

01:11:58.980 obvious

01:11:59.520 so much so

01:12:00.640 that we are

01:12:01.620 told the

01:12:02.020 resurrected Christ

01:12:02.980 had to open

01:12:03.960 the eyes

01:12:04.480 of the Apostles

01:12:05.300 to the intricate

01:12:06.900 connections

01:12:07.540 between the Old

01:12:08.700 and the New

01:12:08.960 and what does

01:12:09.320 the resurrected

01:12:09.760 Christ do

01:12:10.180 on the road

01:12:10.500 to Emmaus

01:12:11.040 he opens

01:12:11.980 the scriptures

01:12:12.600 one of the

01:12:14.480 funniest things

01:12:15.000 you ever said

01:12:15.640 you probably

01:12:16.160 don't even

01:12:16.420 remember

01:12:16.760 it was

01:12:17.100 in your

01:12:17.600 home church

01:12:18.960 you once said

01:12:20.320 if you took

01:12:20.680 people back

01:12:21.340 on a tour

01:12:22.120 to show them

01:12:24.120 Jesus

01:12:24.500 they would all

01:12:25.620 say where is he

01:12:26.480 is he behind

01:12:26.940 that Jewish guy 0.97

01:12:27.520 over there

01:12:27.880 that sounds

01:12:32.020 like something

01:12:32.380 I might have

01:12:32.760 another question

01:12:34.820 from a Daily Wire

01:12:35.460 Plus member

01:12:35.960 are we on the

01:12:36.700 brink of a

01:12:37.320 spiritual awakening

01:12:38.160 what will be

01:12:39.540 said about our

01:12:40.140 current time

01:12:40.840 in 50 or 100

01:12:42.040 years

01:12:42.240 yes we are

01:12:42.760 we know this

01:12:43.880 because I have

01:12:44.660 been predicting

01:12:45.120 it for about

01:12:45.960 15 years

01:12:46.540 and you're a

01:12:47.340 prophet

01:12:47.640 well you at

01:12:48.620 least lived

01:12:49.000 at the time

01:12:49.440 of the prophet

01:12:49.780 yes

01:12:50.580 a game we were

01:12:52.940 playing over

01:12:53.320 Thanksgiving

01:12:53.740 was we went

01:12:54.440 around the table

01:12:54.840 and asked what

01:12:55.180 our super power

01:12:55.820 is and I said

01:12:56.600 my super power

01:12:57.260 is knowing

01:12:57.620 what's going

01:12:57.980 to happen

01:12:58.280 five years

01:12:58.760 too soon

01:12:59.280 but no

01:13:02.540 there's

01:13:03.180 absolutely

01:13:04.200 I mean look

01:13:04.720 we could go

01:13:05.420 down the drain

01:13:05.880 but I don't

01:13:06.680 think we are

01:13:07.100 I think this

01:13:07.920 is the moment

01:13:08.960 when this

01:13:09.940 will catch fire

01:13:10.640 in the hearts

01:13:11.020 of men

01:13:11.320 you know

01:13:12.120 God's not

01:13:12.560 going to let

01:13:12.820 his church 0.51

01:13:13.140 die 0.87

01:13:13.420 and we 1.00

01:13:14.280 can reject

01:13:15.440 God

01:13:15.780 you know

01:13:16.060 he gives

01:13:16.480 us that

01:13:16.800 absolute option

01:13:17.840 so it's all

01:13:18.620 contingent

01:13:19.240 on what we

01:13:20.160 do

01:13:20.340 but I just

01:13:20.900 feel

01:13:21.380 already

01:13:21.900 it's happening

01:13:22.440 already

01:13:22.860 you know

01:13:23.300 people of

01:13:23.880 real thought

01:13:25.100 real

01:13:25.740 intellection

01:13:27.540 are finding

01:13:28.920 this

01:13:29.180 it's going

01:13:29.480 to be like

01:13:29.800 the new

01:13:30.040 Oxford movement

01:13:30.640 my prediction

01:13:31.160 has always been

01:13:31.660 that it's going

01:13:32.040 to come down

01:13:32.440 from above

01:13:32.880 it's not going

01:13:33.540 to be

01:13:33.700 it'll become

01:13:34.140 a street

01:13:34.480 thing

01:13:34.760 it's not

01:13:35.380 going to be

01:13:35.640 like old 0.58

01:13:36.080 awakenings

01:13:36.820 where people

01:13:37.340 get out

01:13:38.220 in tents

01:13:38.700 it's going

01:13:39.180 to be in

01:13:39.400 the universities

01:13:39.940 where people

01:13:40.700 go like

01:13:41.140 ah

01:13:41.900 the comparison

01:13:42.720 of the Oxford

01:13:43.380 movement

01:13:43.720 that's a very

01:13:44.480 apt comparison

01:13:45.280 yes

01:13:45.520 I will say

01:13:46.980 that just

01:13:47.200 on a general

01:13:47.640 level

01:13:47.920 it does

01:13:48.560 feel

01:13:48.920 weirdly

01:13:49.500 as though

01:13:49.920 God is

01:13:50.280 pulling away

01:13:50.820 a lot

01:13:51.260 of ales

01:13:51.600 in the last

01:13:51.980 10 years

01:13:52.320 yes

01:13:52.580 doesn't that

01:13:53.020 it just

01:13:53.460 feels like

01:13:53.980 you know

01:13:54.200 there's

01:13:54.980 my favorite

01:13:55.860 section

01:13:56.180 of the Old

01:13:57.020 Testament

01:13:57.340 book of

01:13:57.940 Exodus

01:13:58.180 there's

01:13:58.400 part where

01:13:58.760 Moses

01:13:59.220 is talking

01:13:59.720 to God

01:14:00.100 and he

01:14:00.580 says to

01:14:00.840 God

01:14:00.980 I want

01:14:01.200 to see

01:14:01.360 your face

01:14:01.760 and God

01:14:02.080 says

01:14:02.220 you can't

01:14:02.500 see

01:14:02.600 my face

01:14:02.940 and live

01:14:03.360 but I'll

01:14:04.720 let you

01:14:04.900 see my

01:14:05.100 back

01:14:05.340 and he

01:14:05.520 puts him

01:14:05.780 in the

01:14:05.980 crevice

01:14:06.240 in the

01:14:06.460 rock

01:14:06.720 and then

01:14:07.040 God

01:14:07.380 walks past

01:14:15.280 which I

01:14:16.620 had actually

01:14:16.920 posited

01:14:17.340 and then

01:14:17.720 found that

01:14:18.220 obviously

01:14:19.080 always

01:14:19.720 there's a

01:14:20.040 wiser mind

01:14:20.480 than you

01:14:20.760 who said

01:14:21.300 it 500

01:14:21.640 years ago

01:14:22.140 but the

01:14:23.060 basic idea

01:14:24.060 is that you

01:14:24.360 can't see

01:14:24.720 God when

01:14:25.060 he's staring

01:14:25.420 you right

01:14:25.740 in the

01:14:25.920 face

01:14:26.120 when it's

01:14:26.420 happening

01:14:26.660 in your

01:14:26.920 life

01:14:27.120 when the

01:14:27.360 immediate

01:14:27.580 is happening

01:14:28.040 because you're

01:14:28.720 too involved

01:14:29.200 in the

01:14:29.400 immediate

01:14:29.620 you can only

01:14:30.060 see God

01:14:30.580 through the

01:14:31.280 rearview

01:14:31.540 mirror

01:14:31.760 you can only

01:14:32.100 see God

01:14:32.400 as he

01:14:32.600 walks away

01:14:33.120 so you can

01:14:33.620 see God

01:14:33.940 as he's

01:14:34.140 walking

01:14:34.440 through history

01:14:34.980 and that's

01:14:36.800 why when you

01:14:37.120 look back

01:14:37.440 at your

01:14:37.580 life you can

01:14:37.940 see all

01:14:38.180 these terrible

01:14:38.540 things that

01:14:38.880 happened in

01:14:39.180 your life

01:14:39.400 and how

01:14:39.620 one thing

01:14:40.240 led to

01:14:40.540 another

01:14:40.780 and all

01:14:41.080 that wove

01:14:41.760 the tapestry

01:14:42.560 of your

01:14:42.860 life

01:14:43.160 and that's

01:14:43.620 true throughout

01:14:44.000 civilizations as

01:14:44.800 well

01:14:45.000 it feels like

01:14:46.020 God's writing

01:14:46.560 has been

01:14:46.880 incredibly obvious

01:14:47.660 the last

01:14:48.120 ten years or so

01:14:49.160 I mean the

01:14:49.600 amount of

01:14:50.320 things that

01:14:50.640 are happening

01:14:51.000 right now

01:14:51.660 that are just

01:14:52.660 of almost

01:14:53.680 biblical

01:14:54.080 proportion

01:14:54.640 is truly

01:14:56.300 kind of an

01:14:57.080 astonishing thing

01:14:57.880 I do want to

01:14:59.180 say though

01:14:59.500 and this kind

01:15:00.040 of goes back

01:15:00.420 to Jeremy's

01:15:00.820 point about

01:15:01.220 the time

01:15:01.940 frame

01:15:02.300 building

01:15:02.760 cathedrals

01:15:03.580 happened over

01:15:04.120 you know

01:15:05.660 your great

01:15:06.060 great great

01:15:06.400 great grandchild

01:15:07.660 would finish it

01:15:08.140 and so I

01:15:08.940 think when we

01:15:09.260 get any time

01:15:09.800 we get these

01:15:10.100 questions of

01:15:10.620 are we in the

01:15:11.040 middle of a

01:15:11.320 spiritual awakening

01:15:11.960 is you know

01:15:12.980 are things

01:15:13.520 changing for the

01:15:14.160 better

01:15:14.400 my answer is

01:15:16.180 always very

01:15:16.500 unsatisfying

01:15:17.080 because my

01:15:17.380 answer is

01:15:17.720 always well

01:15:18.300 well I don't

01:15:20.460 actually know the

01:15:21.020 answer to that

01:15:21.480 and I think that

01:15:22.100 maybe my kids

01:15:22.700 will know and

01:15:23.380 hopefully my

01:15:23.860 grandchildren will

01:15:24.460 know the answer

01:15:24.980 because this is

01:15:26.240 if there is a

01:15:26.860 spiritual awakening

01:15:27.540 that's a

01:15:28.020 generational

01:15:28.540 it's going to

01:15:29.360 happen over the

01:15:29.860 course of

01:15:30.140 generations and

01:15:30.780 so if the

01:15:31.480 question is what

01:15:32.820 will they say

01:15:33.260 about the

01:15:33.520 spiritual awakening

01:15:34.080 50 years from

01:15:34.780 now well

01:15:35.280 hopefully if it's

01:15:35.920 happening they're

01:15:36.420 going to be in

01:15:36.680 the middle of

01:15:37.120 it for 50

01:15:37.720 years from

01:15:38.060 now and so

01:15:38.940 one thing for

01:15:39.620 sure is if we

01:15:40.760 want there to be

01:15:41.240 a spiritual

01:15:41.660 awakening we

01:15:43.600 have to be

01:15:44.240 spiritual and

01:15:45.220 religious and

01:15:45.900 have our

01:15:46.380 children have

01:15:46.940 children and

01:15:48.060 raise them up

01:15:48.700 in the faith and

01:15:49.740 and so we can

01:15:50.520 we can get the

01:15:51.000 ball rolling that

01:15:51.760 way but we're

01:15:52.760 not going to live

01:15:53.580 to see sort of

01:15:54.640 the awakening

01:15:55.380 complete

01:15:56.220 I'm glad you said

01:15:57.320 not be afraid to

01:15:57.860 talk about it as

01:15:58.620 if it were real

01:15:59.260 that's the thing

01:15:59.920 yeah but I was

01:16:00.800 going to say

01:16:01.080 something similar

01:16:01.900 but but from a

01:16:02.780 slightly different

01:16:03.260 angle which is I

01:16:04.860 I don't believe in

01:16:05.980 the rapture

01:16:07.220 nor do I

01:16:09.200 yeah Catholics

01:16:10.080 tend to not

01:16:10.580 believe in the

01:16:10.880 rapture but but

01:16:11.760 I don't I don't

01:16:12.700 much care because

01:16:13.440 if I'm wrong

01:16:14.220 I'll grab Drew's 0.93

01:16:16.260 ankles

01:16:16.500 what I know is

01:16:21.700 that someone God

01:16:24.620 comes for someone

01:16:25.680 every day and

01:16:27.260 spiritual awakenings

01:16:28.200 I think you have

01:16:28.860 to approach it the

01:16:29.500 same I don't know

01:16:30.620 on a sort of

01:16:31.120 global level or

01:16:32.220 societal level what's

01:16:33.880 happening maybe it

01:16:34.960 is I hope so

01:16:35.660 I'm hopeful but

01:16:37.900 today is someone's

01:16:39.340 spiritual awakening

01:16:40.000 yeah and may it

01:16:41.440 may it be yours

01:16:42.260 like you you can

01:16:45.440 interact with God

01:16:46.380 right now today if

01:16:48.260 you have not

01:16:48.880 interacted with God

01:16:49.680 before I remember

01:16:50.900 all the way back in

01:16:51.940 the long time ago

01:16:52.700 days when I was a

01:16:54.660 fan of Andrew

01:16:55.340 Clavin because I

01:16:56.180 didn't know it

01:16:56.740 yeah

01:16:57.020 the two things

01:16:58.340 that happens in

01:17:00.160 many such cases

01:17:00.880 and Drew put out a

01:17:02.340 video a whimsical but

01:17:04.980 serious video about

01:17:06.280 how if you were

01:17:08.260 wrestling with God

01:17:09.200 the thing that you

01:17:09.960 should try doing is

01:17:12.200 praying and he

01:17:13.320 essentially said you

01:17:13.980 should pray for 10

01:17:15.040 minutes a day and he

01:17:16.220 said it doesn't matter

01:17:16.700 if you believe in God

01:17:17.300 or not just assume you

01:17:19.400 believe in God for a

01:17:20.120 minute and talk to him

01:17:21.200 spend 10 minutes every

01:17:22.000 day praying he said

01:17:23.000 and I can't remember

01:17:24.000 it was a kind of a

01:17:24.540 sales pitch it was a

01:17:25.120 very funny video and I

01:17:26.260 guarantee you in 60

01:17:27.360 days money back guarantee

01:17:28.240 or whatever that

01:17:29.480 you'll find that you

01:17:30.340 do believe in God if

01:17:31.400 you start and his

01:17:35.520 lines are open that

01:17:36.280 was like yeah his

01:17:37.160 lines are always open

01:17:37.960 and that and I see it

01:17:40.540 that way it's like the

01:17:41.620 rapture is coming for

01:17:42.380 somebody today and

01:17:43.360 spiritual awakening can

01:17:44.240 also it's sort of the

01:17:45.180 other side of that can

01:17:45.880 also come for you

01:17:47.120 today and to your

01:17:48.380 point there is no

01:17:49.140 global spiritual

01:17:50.060 awakening without a

01:17:51.660 whole series of

01:17:52.260 individual spiritual

01:17:53.060 awakenings so to

01:17:54.020 whatever degree we play

01:17:55.420 a part in that now's a

01:17:56.580 good time to do it

01:17:57.300 for Drew I don't

01:17:59.760 know why for Drew

01:18:00.500 do you see the

01:18:02.080 gospels as four

01:18:02.840 different news outlets

01:18:03.960 or authors covering

01:18:05.380 the same story or

01:18:06.400 biography and as much

01:18:07.680 as each reporter

01:18:08.500 interviews different

01:18:09.300 witnesses and has a

01:18:10.380 slightly different

01:18:10.940 take on the same

01:18:11.780 news story if you if

01:18:13.900 you were a cop and

01:18:15.000 you interviewed four

01:18:15.780 people and they all

01:18:16.760 told you the exact

01:18:17.580 same thing about what

01:18:18.340 they saw you would

01:18:19.020 know that they had

01:18:19.580 conspired and lied

01:18:20.560 so I think what you

01:18:22.560 have is four different

01:18:23.500 people from four

01:18:24.400 different points of

01:18:25.220 view and it's meant to

01:18:26.540 be this way I'll

01:18:27.280 obviously it wasn't

01:18:28.100 an accident giving

01:18:29.500 you their take on

01:18:30.820 the story so it's

01:18:31.480 why I never worry for

01:18:32.360 instance if somebody

01:18:32.900 says well this doesn't

01:18:33.620 fit in with that that

01:18:34.660 if it did all fit in

01:18:36.000 if it all just

01:18:36.660 absolutely fit in I

01:18:38.760 would think no this

01:18:39.660 is a conspiracy yeah

01:18:40.660 but these are people

01:18:41.540 who each saw the same

01:18:43.060 thing in a different

01:18:44.300 way and I think that

01:18:45.220 that to me is part of

01:18:47.220 the evidence of its

01:18:48.240 truth man I'm glad

01:18:49.200 they made that one

01:18:49.980 for you I know it

01:18:51.840 wasn't for me but I

01:18:52.500 do want to add one

01:18:53.060 thing that I think

01:18:54.840 this and you said

01:18:55.980 early that it's

01:18:56.600 kind of like

01:18:56.940 journalism reading

01:18:58.140 the gospels I

01:18:59.040 think that's true of

01:18:59.580 the synoptics

01:19:00.300 Matthew Mark and

01:19:02.960 Luke I think for

01:19:04.340 John I think John's

01:19:05.060 doing something

01:19:05.460 different and I think

01:19:06.540 John's actually not

01:19:07.340 journalism it's it's

01:19:09.640 there's something it's

01:19:11.180 more of a spiritual

01:19:12.060 biography of Christ

01:19:15.140 that's that's who he

01:19:16.000 is yeah right

01:19:16.720 right so there's

01:19:18.480 another question in

01:19:19.120 the teleprompter only

01:19:19.840 seconds ago and it

01:19:20.520 was for Matt it was

01:19:21.260 really good but I

01:19:23.300 think it's gone

01:19:23.880 Matt and the things

01:19:24.840 gone yeah here it

01:19:26.300 is Matt I just

01:19:28.100 wanted to say thank

01:19:28.800 you for oh wait

01:19:29.580 hold on everybody

01:19:31.440 else got a question

01:19:32.220 and he gets praised

01:19:33.100 this is a great one

01:19:33.960 I just oh man I

01:19:36.160 just wanted to say

01:19:36.880 thank you for speaking

01:19:37.820 out about the new

01:19:38.800 sexual abuse in

01:19:39.700 schools I'm interested

01:19:40.680 in looking into doing

01:19:41.460 a documentary about

01:19:42.200 sexual abuse in the

01:19:43.060 schools as a

01:19:44.180 documentary king do

01:19:45.360 you have any

01:19:45.940 suggestions

01:19:46.500 just do it just

01:19:51.900 just start doing it

01:19:52.840 yeah well I'd

01:19:58.140 stop I'd stop short

01:19:58.920 I guess for that I'd

01:19:59.520 stop short of some

01:20:00.160 of our am I racist

01:20:01.060 methods but I

01:20:04.700 certainly hope that

01:20:05.420 somebody makes that

01:20:06.120 documentary because

01:20:06.800 this is a major

01:20:07.680 crisis epidemic like

01:20:09.840 nobody talks about and

01:20:11.820 it's crazy what if

01:20:14.620 anything can actually

01:20:15.400 be done about the

01:20:16.460 hunter issue is there

01:20:17.540 any legal way to

01:20:18.480 overturn a presidential

01:20:19.420 policy presidential

01:20:21.540 policies yes this is a

01:20:22.580 presidential pardon

01:20:23.180 which is somewhat

01:20:24.020 unique and it brings

01:20:24.960 us to the political

01:20:25.580 section of the show

01:20:26.420 we've we've been lost

01:20:27.880 in the in the sublime and

01:20:29.560 now we have to get down 0.93

01:20:30.340 into the the ridiculous 0.98

01:20:31.260 the dirty 0.99

01:20:31.860 obviously the big news

01:20:36.800 story of the weekend

01:20:37.720 president biden pardoned

01:20:40.060 his son hunter of any

01:20:41.940 crime that he may or may

01:20:43.440 not have committed or may

01:20:46.680 yet come in or may yet

01:20:47.640 come in the best thing

01:20:48.780 about that pardon was

01:20:49.580 that it came down and it

01:20:50.660 went all the way until

01:20:51.540 midnight last night so

01:20:52.680 there was like a four

01:20:53.340 hour period where hunter

01:20:54.300 could have done anything

01:20:55.400 he wanted legitimately

01:20:56.660 anything as long as a

01:20:57.640 federal crime and not a

01:20:58.520 state-level crime he

01:20:59.280 could have done anything

01:21:00.280 he could have gone he

01:21:01.800 could have like cross

01:21:02.740 interstate lines with

01:21:03.900 processes like anything

01:21:04.900 that he wanted just

01:21:05.620 really enjoyed himself

01:21:06.420 like four hours right

01:21:07.420 there been totally

01:21:08.060 clean it is the most

01:21:09.520 sweeping pardon in

01:21:10.840 modern presidential

01:21:11.440 history because it

01:21:12.500 didn't pardon him just

01:21:13.460 for the offenses that

01:21:14.400 he was convicted for

01:21:15.360 pled guilty too it

01:21:16.480 pardoned him for

01:21:17.000 everything and anything

01:21:18.080 that he it was like a

01:21:19.620 it was like a it was

01:21:20.520 like a note from the

01:21:21.420 three musketeers the

01:21:22.260 bearer of this note has

01:21:23.300 done what has been

01:21:23.980 done it began it began

01:21:29.000 unshockingly january 1st

01:21:30.720 2014 he joined the

01:21:31.860 board of burisma april of

01:21:33.460 2014 which is why it was

01:21:34.740 dated this particular way

01:21:35.900 he they didn't make a

01:21:37.020 boo-boo here i will say

01:21:37.840 if the goal here was to

01:21:39.080 immunize joe which is

01:21:41.140 more than likely at least

01:21:42.740 part of the goal yeah

01:21:43.420 they were afraid that

01:21:44.220 that hunter was going to

01:21:45.340 be flipped that

01:21:45.980 essentially the the

01:21:47.380 new trump doj was

01:21:48.600 going to come in they

01:21:50.020 were going to start

01:21:50.280 looking through hunter's

01:21:51.100 finances they were

01:21:51.780 going to find there were

01:21:52.340 checks to the big guy

01:21:53.140 and then they're going

01:21:53.860 to try to flip hunter 0.80

01:21:54.540 on joe well there is

01:21:55.960 one problem he always

01:21:56.900 could have pled the

01:21:57.380 fifth amendment he

01:21:58.040 can't do that anymore

01:21:58.680 once you've been

01:21:59.100 pardoned the fifth

01:22:00.020 amendment goes away

01:22:00.680 legally speaking because

01:22:01.560 it's a right against

01:22:02.000 self-incrimination you

01:22:02.840 can't incriminate

01:22:03.380 yourself for a crime

01:22:04.200 that you're not going

01:22:05.900 to be convicted of and

01:22:06.660 that you can't be

01:22:07.020 convicted of so

01:22:07.560 theoretically they

01:22:08.180 could drag him

01:22:08.680 before congress or

01:22:09.480 before a jury or in a

01:22:10.980 subpoena and they

01:22:11.740 could say you can't

01:22:12.220 plead the fifth and

01:22:12.940 so you'll just get a

01:22:13.660 bunch of I don't

01:22:14.060 remember as I'm sure

01:22:14.840 but so the president

01:22:16.700 has very broad

01:22:17.700 pardoning authority for

01:22:18.640 federal for federal

01:22:19.520 crimes other than the

01:22:22.380 Nixon pardon are there

01:22:23.740 examples of pardons for

01:22:25.020 for things that haven't

01:22:27.640 Jimmy Carter pardoned the

01:22:29.020 draft dodgers didn't he 0.99

01:22:30.120 yes he did yeah and that

01:22:31.240 was also quite broad

01:22:32.300 this one yeah that is

01:22:35.020 broad but it is for one

01:22:36.300 particular thing yeah

01:22:37.920 it's for a ton of people

01:22:38.940 but for one particular

01:22:39.760 yeah I'm not sure I know

01:22:41.080 about a part in this like

01:22:42.600 for any and all

01:22:43.880 unspecified crimes during

01:22:45.400 this gigantic that may

01:22:46.080 or may not have been

01:22:46.860 committed for 11 years

01:22:47.640 it's actually hilarious

01:22:48.380 in so many ways it's

01:22:49.980 hilarious he has

01:22:50.660 committed to searching

01:22:51.480 the rest of his life

01:22:52.140 for the big guy that's

01:22:53.080 what I think it's also

01:22:55.940 hilarious to watch as

01:22:57.480 the entire narrative

01:22:58.940 that they'd constructed

01:22:59.720 oh Joe Biden is the

01:23:00.760 president of norms and

01:23:01.940 he's normality and

01:23:02.940 Donald Trump is a

01:23:03.640 threat to the system

01:23:04.300 that's what I kind of

01:23:04.800 like about it completely

01:23:05.480 exploded I don't I

01:23:07.560 had a very unpopular

01:23:08.520 take on this that I

01:23:10.220 disagreed on X with

01:23:11.240 our esteemed colleague

01:23:12.100 Mr. Walsh here

01:23:12.900 but but really it

01:23:14.680 began with I was

01:23:15.840 shocked that people

01:23:16.640 were shocked yeah

01:23:18.080 were there seriously

01:23:19.480 people who believed

01:23:20.520 that this would not

01:23:21.240 happen no I got this

01:23:22.640 wonderful wonderful

01:23:23.640 email from a

01:23:25.020 conservative friend in

01:23:26.520 Hollywood so he's

01:23:27.140 obviously undercover

01:23:27.960 who had dinner with a

01:23:29.780 liberal friend and

01:23:31.160 before this happened

01:23:32.540 and he said obviously

01:23:35.340 my friend said obviously

01:23:36.600 Biden's gonna you know

01:23:38.060 pardon his son and the

01:23:39.140 guy said never happen

01:23:40.040 never happened so they

01:23:41.220 bet a million I said I'll

01:23:42.480 bet you a million dollars

01:23:43.400 and they shook on it and

01:23:45.040 now the guy said well it

01:23:45.700 was a joke of course but

01:23:47.000 I think it's it's

01:23:48.140 incredibly touching to

01:23:49.400 me that people really did

01:23:51.060 believe that Joe Biden

01:23:52.400 who is a weathervane who

01:23:54.220 is the most one of the 0.65

01:23:55.400 most routinely corrupt

01:23:56.880 politicians of our

01:23:57.760 lifetime was a man of

01:23:59.140 honor who was going to

01:24:00.140 abide by his word but

01:24:01.280 they did they did believe

01:24:02.380 it yeah it's kind of

01:24:03.460 touching it's crazy to me

01:24:04.640 I mean in in part I

01:24:05.980 think human gullibility

01:24:07.320 what to Ben's point was

01:24:08.480 he trying to protect

01:24:09.200 himself yeah probably

01:24:10.520 does Joe ever do

01:24:11.580 anything as a selfless

01:24:12.880 matter no but but I

01:24:15.020 don't think Joe is a

01:24:15.720 complete cynic meaning I

01:24:17.440 think Joe really loves

01:24:18.380 his kid I think that I

01:24:20.200 think most people in

01:24:21.120 that position if their

01:24:22.780 kid were not just 18

01:24:25.220 years old and you're

01:24:25.980 gonna let him sleep a

01:24:26.640 crime off in jail but

01:24:27.720 you know a kid is

01:24:28.320 looking at serious jail

01:24:29.160 time you're on the

01:24:30.040 brink of death he's your

01:24:31.440 last living kid I think

01:24:33.320 most people probably would

01:24:34.600 pardon their kid or at

01:24:35.580 least commute their kid's

01:24:36.340 sentence unless he were

01:24:37.340 actually liable for lots

01:24:39.920 of other crimes that are

01:24:40.640 more serious I think that

01:24:41.500 if he had commuted

01:24:42.400 Hunter's sentence but

01:24:43.620 he'd stolen the libel for

01:24:44.640 the known crimes yeah the

01:24:46.260 crimes for which he was

01:24:46.840 actually convicted but he

01:24:47.680 wasn't prosecuted for the

01:24:48.880 serious crimes he was

01:24:49.880 prosecuted for this yeah

01:24:50.800 but that's the point that's

01:24:51.620 why this to me is the

01:24:53.420 interesting question with

01:24:54.500 the and it's probably

01:24:55.480 irrelevant because he did

01:24:56.280 do it for his own sake but

01:24:57.160 just pretending that's not

01:24:57.920 the case for a second the

01:24:59.160 interesting question is like

01:25:00.620 would you do this for your

01:25:01.300 own kid and my answer is

01:25:03.800 hell no I would not do

01:25:04.760 this for my own kids I know

01:25:06.220 I I here's what I would

01:25:07.600 do if my kids were

01:25:09.380 convicted of some tax

01:25:10.440 crime or a gun charge

01:25:11.380 absolutely I I would

01:25:12.960 pardon everyone ever

01:25:15.000 convicted of a tax

01:25:16.420 crime or a gun or

01:25:17.620 probably a blanket

01:25:18.640 pardon for the

01:25:19.220 right but but what I

01:25:20.960 would not do is if I

01:25:22.900 had a 54 year old drug 0.99

01:25:25.400 addled loser of a son 0.99

01:25:26.960 who's been an absolute 1.00

01:25:28.260 loser his whole life I 1.00

01:25:29.900 would not give him a 1.00

01:25:30.920 blanket get out of jail

01:25:32.380 free card for any crime

01:25:33.880 he may have committed up

01:25:35.160 to things like sex

01:25:35.920 trafficking federal crime

01:25:37.120 for for a period of 10

01:25:38.580 years okay let me

01:25:39.220 because hold on a second

01:25:39.940 your your number one

01:25:41.000 duty as a parent and you

01:25:42.580 know this is to lead your

01:25:43.560 child to virtue and then

01:25:45.340 and to heaven ultimately

01:25:46.500 this is Plato's argument

01:25:47.600 in Gorgias right so by

01:25:49.240 giving him that get out of

01:25:50.640 jail free card you have

01:25:51.680 you have impeded his

01:25:54.260 ability to develop

01:25:54.980 this comes down to the

01:25:56.000 selfishness of Joe Biden

01:25:56.960 though the thing that

01:25:58.140 nobody has pointed out

01:25:59.220 about his relationship with

01:26:00.480 Hunter for years is that

01:26:01.940 he enabled this he did

01:26:03.840 I mean he he enabled it

01:26:05.200 he profited he profited

01:26:06.680 off of it he knew his

01:26:07.740 son was a drug addled

01:26:08.880 mess everyone knew his 0.71

01:26:09.940 son was a drug addled

01:26:10.920 mess he knew his son was

01:26:11.940 trafficking with 0.99

01:26:12.520 prostitutes and smoking 0.98

01:26:13.520 meth he knew all that 0.99

01:26:14.700 stuff and he sent him to

01:26:15.600 get million dollar jobs at

01:26:16.960 Burisma so he could bring 1.00

01:26:18.260 home the bacon you know

01:26:19.240 what you don't do with a

01:26:19.940 kid who's in serious

01:26:21.060 drug trouble give him free

01:26:22.480 access to large quantities

01:26:23.920 of untraceable cash that

01:26:25.100 is a thing you don't do with

01:26:26.480 a kid who has serious

01:26:27.220 drug problems so then

01:26:28.140 let me ask this

01:26:28.700 question hard let me

01:26:29.600 take that kid you put 0.88

01:26:30.340 him in rehab and you dry

01:26:31.460 him out and you chain him

01:26:32.520 upset he can't make bad

01:26:33.580 decisions at least until

01:26:34.740 the time where he's

01:26:35.300 capable of making good

01:26:35.960 decisions instead he

01:26:37.120 decided he's going to

01:26:37.680 trot him out as a bag man

01:26:38.820 for the Biden family

01:26:39.640 business for full on a

01:26:40.620 decade that's the point

01:26:41.600 though and so this is the

01:26:42.300 question for the table and

01:26:43.100 especially for Mr. Walsh

01:26:44.460 here you say you would not

01:26:46.160 and I think this is a good

01:26:47.040 point you you would not

01:26:48.360 just give a blanket pardon

01:26:49.320 to your kid if he had all

01:26:50.220 these serious drug problems

01:26:51.320 because you'd actually want

01:26:52.260 to help him and dry him

01:26:53.260 out and all the rest now

01:26:54.560 let's say instead you were

01:26:55.760 not now Walsh but Joe

01:26:56.880 Biden and you had

01:26:58.200 profited allegedly to the

01:27:00.340 tune of allegedly lots and

01:27:01.820 lots of money over many

01:27:02.740 decades and maybe even

01:27:04.320 sent your kid out to Ben's

01:27:05.920 point to raise all that

01:27:06.860 money in that instance if 0.90

01:27:08.960 you were a deeply corrupt

01:27:10.100 president who had ordered 0.99

01:27:11.680 your kid to do this stuff

01:27:12.580 would you pardon him

01:27:13.640 I mean you're asking that

01:27:15.440 if he's a different human

01:27:16.120 yeah yeah I'm just saying

01:27:17.500 I mean I get your point

01:27:20.440 but I refuse to agree with

01:27:21.440 you but but yeah I mean if

01:27:24.200 it's if it's a guilt thing

01:27:25.400 where he's like well this

01:27:26.580 is actually all my fault he

01:27:27.500 did it for my sake I'm not

01:27:28.940 gonna let him take the fall

01:27:29.840 of course then then the

01:27:32.760 real courageous thing would

01:27:33.820 be the real honorable thing

01:27:34.740 would be for Biden to admit

01:27:36.180 all this which he would

01:27:36.780 never never do but in that

01:27:39.260 case I guess I could could

01:27:40.260 see an argument the level

01:27:42.080 of corruption here is is

01:27:43.460 truly astonishing but it's

01:27:45.040 really bad for the country

01:27:46.060 and and I have to say that

01:27:47.620 you know now when you go

01:27:48.860 back and you look at

01:27:49.380 American history you have

01:27:50.240 to admit the Clinton

01:27:51.160 presidency broke the

01:27:51.900 country truly broke the

01:27:53.220 country I mean between the

01:27:54.380 corruption and the pardons

01:27:55.240 and Lewinsky and the 0.91

01:27:56.140 basic idea that virtue no

01:27:57.240 longer mattered in public

01:27:58.160 life like that that followed

01:28:00.460 by the Iraq war by the

01:28:02.080 mishandling of COVID by all

01:28:03.660 this stuff like every

01:28:04.680 institution is broken and

01:28:05.740 so now what you have is

01:28:06.840 people who are sinning more

01:28:08.480 than the last guy sinned in

01:28:09.640 the projection that the

01:28:10.400 future guy will sin more

01:28:11.240 than they have right that's

01:28:12.360 exactly what Joe Biden

01:28:13.240 well that is the part of

01:28:14.040 this that's interesting to

01:28:14.940 me is in the past this

01:28:18.220 pardon would have been

01:28:19.020 unnecessary and even even

01:28:22.360 when Biden was swearing he

01:28:24.060 wouldn't do it he probably

01:28:25.240 thought it wouldn't be

01:28:26.220 necessary because had

01:28:27.640 Kamala won the presidency

01:28:29.120 there'd be no need for

01:28:30.340 the pardon and if Donald

01:28:32.220 Trump weren't essentially

01:28:34.140 promising to go back and

01:28:36.360 punish people from the 0.99

01:28:38.220 previous administration it

01:28:39.560 also wouldn't be necessary

01:28:40.780 because generally speaking

01:28:42.420 we've had a don't look

01:28:43.240 back you can never look

01:28:44.140 back approach to

01:28:45.460 presidential politics where

01:28:47.120 you know we survived the

01:28:49.500 Carter administration and

01:28:50.520 we just never talk about it

01:28:51.440 again but because Donald

01:28:53.600 Trump isn't doing that he's

01:28:54.960 basically run on the promise

01:28:56.180 that he is going to do

01:28:57.080 something about this I'm

01:28:59.380 not saying that by the way

01:29:00.300 the only reason he's doing

01:29:01.080 that is because Joe Biden

01:29:02.000 did it to him did it to

01:29:02.780 him yeah right you remember

01:29:04.420 the Joe that Donald Trump

01:29:05.420 ran in 2016 pledging to

01:29:06.560 lock up Hillary you know 1.00

01:29:07.320 it's the thing he didn't do

01:29:08.140 he didn't lock up Hillary 0.91

01:29:09.240 but you know who actually

01:29:10.120 tried to lock up the other

01:29:11.120 guy Joe Biden tried to

01:29:12.580 lock that guy up 100% so

01:29:13.920 things have changed yes to

01:29:15.820 even make this a thing that

01:29:18.380 somehow our politics have

01:29:19.280 gotten even worse because

01:29:20.060 now the way that it's going

01:29:21.020 to work is legitimately you

01:29:22.960 are going to have to part

01:29:23.740 every president's gonna have

01:29:24.560 to do this now you're gonna

01:29:25.100 have to pardon yourself of

01:29:26.280 all blanket crimes on the

01:29:27.940 last day of your term you're

01:29:29.060 gonna have to yeah because

01:29:29.920 the next guy is gonna come

01:29:30.840 in and find some excuse to

01:29:32.580 prosecute the last guy my

01:29:34.060 question before you ask I

01:29:36.180 have one response to what

01:29:37.640 you say though if Joe Biden

01:29:39.000 had come out and said I'm

01:29:41.040 sorry I know I promise not

01:29:42.560 to do this I'm broken I

01:29:43.920 cannot let my son do time I

01:29:45.860 may be wrong but this is the

01:29:47.580 way it is he's my son I love

01:29:48.820 him I can't do it he wouldn't

01:29:50.460 he wouldn't have damaged the

01:29:51.760 country you would have seen

01:29:52.440 it as his personal weakness

01:29:53.600 we all would have

01:29:54.400 sympathized with it but

01:29:55.240 that's not what he did he

01:29:56.000 lied even in pardoning him

01:29:57.540 like he was targeted he was

01:29:59.300 targeted with well he was

01:30:00.720 he was treated by a different

01:30:02.240 standard a much more lenient

01:30:04.300 standard than anyone else

01:30:05.420 did you see and then today

01:30:06.500 Kareem Jean-Pierre is out

01:30:07.660 there attempting to explain

01:30:08.980 why Joe Biden suggesting that

01:30:10.280 the DOJ was corruptly

01:30:11.300 targeting his son was

01:30:12.280 different than Donald Trump

01:30:13.120 saying the DOJ was

01:30:13.980 corruptly targeting Donald

01:30:14.860 Trump again this is the thing

01:30:16.500 that really is

01:30:17.220 this is a point that Nate

01:30:19.360 Silver was making he was

01:30:20.780 saying that you know it's

01:30:22.820 not that the that people

01:30:25.000 are getting the normality

01:30:26.560 argument wrong things are

01:30:28.640 not normal right now but

01:30:29.600 the point is that Democrats

01:30:30.580 were not normal either and

01:30:32.140 they had been normal for a

01:30:32.960 super long time right and

01:30:34.200 this was the reason why

01:30:35.100 Donald Trump won the

01:30:35.760 election it wasn't because

01:30:36.380 people love January

01:30:37.260 signal like in deeply

01:30:38.100 it's because they don't

01:30:39.220 believe that the other

01:30:39.900 side is any better they

01:30:40.720 believe the other side is

01:30:41.540 actually my only question

01:30:44.160 for the Harvard lawyer

01:30:44.780 because what do I know I

01:30:45.580 don't have a law school

01:30:46.080 education but to your

01:30:48.080 point Jeremy does this

01:30:50.140 pardon hold is this

01:30:51.680 legit yes it is there's no

01:30:53.300 question I mean there are

01:30:54.460 no restrictions on the

01:30:55.320 pardon power in the

01:30:55.920 constitution itself it's

01:30:56.980 very difficult to see a

01:30:58.960 situation which the

01:30:59.740 Supreme Court overrules a

01:31:01.500 presidential a presidential

01:31:02.380 pardon the only interesting

01:31:03.560 thing about it to me is

01:31:05.280 that it's not for any

01:31:06.740 specific crimes right which

01:31:08.820 does create now the

01:31:11.300 precedent of blanket pardons

01:31:14.220 I mean do that if ever I'm

01:31:15.480 elected guys get ready

01:31:16.540 y'all get blanket pardons

01:31:17.700 it's like the purge it's

01:31:19.400 awesome I was about to

01:31:20.420 say I don't why would

01:31:21.460 Biden stop here why

01:31:22.540 wouldn't he between now

01:31:23.940 and leaving office pardon

01:31:24.880 all the most high-ranking

01:31:25.880 members of his

01:31:26.360 administration I want to

01:31:27.400 see I want to see if

01:31:27.880 people can start getting

01:31:28.420 prospect to pardon I

01:31:29.920 really want prospect to

01:31:30.520 he doesn't have to admit

01:31:31.300 that let's go all the way

01:31:32.120 like that's the thing about

01:31:33.020 the five years of activity

01:31:34.080 right like not just like

01:31:35.180 stopping today like like

01:31:36.580 you can do anything you

01:31:37.660 want until 2041 let's

01:31:39.680 go right like that's

01:31:40.160 amazing like if you did

01:31:41.300 that the Democratic Party

01:31:42.280 would cease to exist I

01:31:43.360 think you think so yes

01:31:44.500 because this is this is

01:31:45.620 because of the father-son

01:31:46.640 thing you know this has

01:31:47.820 this kind of shroud of

01:31:48.860 sympathy and all this but

01:31:50.260 if he pardoned like

01:31:51.160 Christopher Wray you know

01:31:52.520 like I don't think don't

01:31:54.300 you think this to your

01:31:55.400 point Drew wasn't this

01:31:56.780 pardon also a little bit

01:31:58.360 of a shiv to the 0.92

01:31:59.220 Democrats who overthrew him

01:32:00.480 a little bit of a yeah I

01:32:02.300 lied I said I wasn't

01:32:03.340 going to do it but I'm

01:32:04.360 not going to pay any

01:32:05.040 cost you might in the

01:32:06.820 midterms for my lies but

01:32:08.520 who cares I don't care

01:32:09.180 about you guys anymore I

01:32:09.960 mean certainly now nothing

01:32:11.840 Trump does with the

01:32:12.840 pardon vis-a-vis say the

01:32:14.180 January Sixers or maybe

01:32:15.600 even pardoning himself

01:32:16.540 yeah I think if I were

01:32:18.160 Joe Biden and I were

01:32:18.980 going to do the wrong

01:32:19.680 thing because I think he

01:32:20.280 did the wrong thing

01:32:20.840 obviously I may have

01:32:21.900 commuted Hunter's

01:32:22.660 sentence but the blanket

01:32:23.880 pardons too much but if

01:32:25.600 you were going to do it

01:32:26.400 what I would have said is

01:32:27.860 I am pardoning my son

01:32:30.180 Hunter Biden and I am

01:32:31.940 pardoning Donald Trump for

01:32:33.940 all the all the allegations

01:32:36.120 related to classified

01:32:37.040 documents and the federal

01:32:37.880 charges against him that the

01:32:39.940 era of political

01:32:40.980 persecution of your of your

01:32:42.640 political enemies ends now

01:32:44.480 by the way I thought that

01:32:45.240 Joe Biden I think he would

01:32:46.020 have gotten away with that

01:32:46.740 I think they should have

01:32:47.520 done that during the race

01:32:48.220 I always thought that

01:32:49.060 would have been great

01:32:50.120 during the race would have

01:32:51.140 been to say listen he may

01:32:52.460 have committed crimes

01:32:53.120 Donald Trump but you know

01:32:53.900 what we're a bigger country

01:32:54.820 than that and pardon Trump

01:32:55.900 it would piss Trump off

01:32:56.680 something fierce right

01:32:57.800 pardon him for crimes that

01:32:59.340 Trump said he didn't commit

01:33:00.120 and it also would have been

01:33:01.580 seen by the American public

01:33:03.000 as something magnanimous but

01:33:04.180 yeah now it's a little bit

01:33:05.500 late it is it is a wild

01:33:06.660 story though and again goes

01:33:07.760 to just the complete

01:33:08.980 decrepitude of our

01:33:09.860 politics it's also the

01:33:10.620 reason why Donald Trump

01:33:11.980 is selecting people like

01:33:12.940 Kash Patel to clean out

01:33:13.880 these institutions right

01:33:14.800 these institutions are

01:33:16.220 really really corrupt and 0.79

01:33:17.820 he's appointing people to

01:33:18.920 clean out an enormous

01:33:19.960 amount of dead wood inside

01:33:21.660 these institutions now I

01:33:23.100 may quibble with some of

01:33:24.620 the strategery here just

01:33:26.080 because he's going to lose

01:33:27.260 an awful lot of steam

01:33:28.440 trying to ram through some

01:33:29.620 of the more controversial

01:33:30.220 picks and I think there

01:33:30.900 probably were people not

01:33:32.200 probably I know there are

01:33:33.080 people in positions who

01:33:34.600 would have done exactly the

01:33:35.540 same thing but without a

01:33:36.280 lot of the controversy and

01:33:37.800 and I think that that you

01:33:39.080 know if it were me and I

01:33:39.880 were trying to do the

01:33:40.440 same thing again I like

01:33:41.920 a lot of his picks but I

01:33:42.660 think there are some of

01:33:43.260 his picks where you could

01:33:44.060 have gotten 99% of the

01:33:46.360 juice with you know zero

01:33:47.500 percent the squeeze yeah

01:33:48.420 and that's gonna that's

01:33:49.660 gonna be a problem there's

01:33:50.260 gonna be some resistance to

01:33:51.060 Kash Patel there'll probably

01:33:51.920 be some resistance to

01:33:52.920 Tulsi Gabbard you know

01:33:54.040 again will the speaker

01:33:55.200 will the speaker allow him

01:33:57.740 to adjourn Congress so that

01:33:59.580 he can push no no you 0.98

01:34:00.900 don't think you don't

01:34:01.760 think uh the Senate would 0.83

01:34:03.800 push back you do you

01:34:04.780 really you don't think

01:34:05.620 though that Mike Johnson

01:34:06.460 would put put pressure

01:34:07.980 from the House no I think

01:34:10.080 even some of his

01:34:10.740 supporters like me would

01:34:11.780 would be very unhappy with

01:34:13.300 that the Senate the

01:34:15.020 Senate exists for a reason

01:34:15.920 yeah it's an advice and

01:34:16.700 consent mechanism right I

01:34:17.820 tend to believe that you

01:34:18.660 should be able to find

01:34:19.600 people who you know 50 of

01:34:21.480 your 53 senators can agree

01:34:23.380 on and that's why most of

01:34:24.620 these people are going to

01:34:25.120 get through including I

01:34:26.420 think some of the more

01:34:26.900 controversial picks like I

01:34:27.840 think Pete Hegseth is going

01:34:28.800 to get through for example

01:34:29.580 yeah yeah Patel is going to

01:34:31.340 get through actually I think

01:34:32.240 Patel probably gets there as

01:34:33.060 well I think that right now

01:34:34.080 the two most controversial

01:34:34.880 nominees are probably

01:34:35.700 Gabbard and and RFK yeah

01:34:37.800 you know at HHS you know

01:34:39.240 those children's illustrated

01:34:40.680 books that have like trucks

01:34:41.820 with eyes you know like I

01:34:43.160 that's who I would promote

01:34:44.720 at this point I would I

01:34:45.700 would vote for like a

01:34:46.940 bulldozer with eyes just

01:34:48.820 destroy every I think

01:34:50.900 Tulsi gets through I don't

01:34:51.920 because you got to remember

01:34:52.840 with Tulsi some Republican

01:34:54.620 senators might not like she's 1.00

01:34:55.800 a Democrat she disagrees with

01:34:56.960 them on certain things Trump

01:34:58.360 did not hide the ball on

01:34:59.580 Tulsi Gabbard or Bobby

01:35:00.640 Kennedy for that matter he

01:35:01.860 campaigned with them

01:35:02.860 ceaselessly at the end of

01:35:04.580 that campaign the American

01:35:05.880 people did vote for that and

01:35:07.300 I think the Republican

01:35:07.960 senators I mean the question

01:35:09.340 is going to be the math

01:35:10.020 right so if you look at it

01:35:11.260 for example Tulsi or RFK

01:35:12.920 jr you're looking at a drop

01:35:15.120 off of three immediately

01:35:16.020 probably right you're

01:35:16.920 talking Collins Murkowski

01:35:17.860 and McConnell so those are

01:35:19.620 the three likely to drop

01:35:20.980 out because McConnell is

01:35:22.020 done after this term and

01:35:23.220 so he's figuring who do I

01:35:24.480 want to vote for who do I

01:35:25.140 not and what do I care like

01:35:26.000 I'm just gonna do what I

01:35:26.560 want to do and so all you

01:35:27.960 have to do at that point is

01:35:28.880 peel off one more and so

01:35:30.560 when it comes to you know

01:35:31.640 RFK jr he's gonna have to

01:35:33.640 make some commitments and

01:35:34.700 I think he should make some

01:35:35.340 commitments by the way to

01:35:36.400 for example reinstate the

01:35:37.420 Mexico City policy yeah

01:35:38.480 like his pro-choice bona

01:35:40.020 fides are gonna definitely

01:35:40.980 be on the table in these

01:35:41.700 hearings and they should be

01:35:42.300 on the table and that's why

01:35:43.200 I think it's good to have

01:35:44.380 confirmation hearings and

01:35:45.320 just not let the president

01:35:46.100 roughshod over the recess

01:35:47.380 so I don't think that the

01:35:48.740 president I'm against the

01:35:49.840 recess appointment thing we

01:35:51.440 have a Senate for a reason

01:35:52.540 I understand the argument

01:35:53.820 that the department heads

01:35:55.280 aren't part of the checks

01:35:56.000 and balances system and as

01:35:58.080 long as you're not talking

01:35:58.560 about violations of the

01:35:59.660 constitution that's probably

01:36:00.800 true but the Senate

01:36:03.040 decidedly is an independent

01:36:05.020 branch of government and is

01:36:06.180 supposed to hold the

01:36:06.880 president in check it is

01:36:07.720 part of the checks and

01:36:08.380 balances I think that it is

01:36:10.020 a broken system however and

01:36:11.420 has been for my entire adult

01:36:12.660 life you know by the time

01:36:14.680 9-11 happened George W.

01:36:17.020 Bush hadn't seated most of

01:36:18.380 his cabinet it took two

01:36:20.800 years to seat most of

01:36:21.840 Donald Trump's cabinet in

01:36:23.200 the first administration the

01:36:24.780 advice and consent was never

01:36:26.560 made if you had told the

01:36:27.280 founders a president could

01:36:28.200 get halfway through his

01:36:28.960 term yeah and not have a

01:36:30.160 cabinet they would have

01:36:30.760 told you absolutely that's

01:36:31.720 not what this means but I

01:36:33.760 also believe that the

01:36:35.620 advice and consent clause as

01:36:39.180 as pertains to executive

01:36:41.100 department heads I would let

01:36:44.480 Barack Obama appoint almost

01:36:45.520 anyone he wants if I was in

01:36:46.520 the Senate that's how it was

01:36:47.800 for most of the history of

01:36:48.680 the country I despise many of

01:36:51.060 Trump's picks I wouldn't I'm

01:36:53.300 against putting left-wing

01:36:54.880 Democrats in a Republican

01:36:56.960 cabinet I think it's wrong

01:36:58.060 but the president absolutely

01:36:59.280 has the right to do that so

01:37:01.400 I would do I think Tulsi

01:37:02.860 Gabbard should be in the

01:37:03.600 cabinet no do I think RFK

01:37:04.800 Jr. should be in the 0.94

01:37:05.440 cabinet no but if I were a

01:37:06.980 senator I would vote to

01:37:07.740 confirm them because I think

01:37:09.260 the president has the right

01:37:09.960 I feel a little bit

01:37:10.680 differently about

01:37:11.300 judicial nominations I think

01:37:12.940 that that's different they

01:37:14.060 have like an actual

01:37:14.780 nonpartisan job they're

01:37:16.160 supposed to do as opposed

01:37:17.080 to working for the

01:37:17.620 president you can fire them

01:37:18.380 at any time I'm against

01:37:19.320 many of Trump's appointments

01:37:21.100 I think it's kind of

01:37:21.940 hilarious that as I've

01:37:23.900 been saying for the last

01:37:24.680 eight years everyone who

01:37:26.000 tries to build an

01:37:26.640 intellectual framework

01:37:27.560 around Trumpism is lying

01:37:29.500 to themselves and others

01:37:30.480 Michael Anton gets

01:37:32.760 basically booted the whole

01:37:34.460 Claremont Trumpism is

01:37:36.020 meaningless not a single

01:37:37.120 member of their sphere is

01:37:38.900 ascending the Natcons who 1.00

01:37:40.600 are the Natcons ascending

01:37:41.600 no one here's two complete

01:37:43.520 intellectual schools

01:37:44.320 J.D. Vance maybe here's

01:37:46.700 whatever J.D. Vance is is

01:37:48.340 yet to be seen but whatever

01:37:49.720 is and also the vice

01:37:50.980 president doesn't do

01:37:51.600 anything here's two

01:37:53.380 intellectual frameworks

01:37:54.240 invented to assure us what

01:37:55.900 Trumpism is all about

01:37:56.800 they got nothing they

01:37:57.900 didn't ascend a single

01:37:58.480 person there are more

01:37:59.280 Democrats being ascended

01:38:00.280 than Natcons or Claremont

01:38:01.820 cons in the Trump

01:38:03.200 administration the only one

01:38:04.700 who I would have voted

01:38:05.300 against though as a

01:38:05.980 senator is Matt Gaetz

01:38:07.640 yeah because I think

01:38:09.240 that's what the advice and

01:38:10.060 consent clause is actually

01:38:11.620 about it's not about for

01:38:12.920 partisan reasons do I

01:38:13.920 approve of this person I

01:38:15.180 don't approve of I think

01:38:16.300 RFK Jr is a great by all

01:38:18.600 accounts a great guy I

01:38:19.860 think he has some kind of

01:38:20.460 fun ideas I don't I'm a

01:38:22.360 Republican I don't want

01:38:22.980 Democrats in office but I

01:38:24.760 would still vote for him

01:38:25.600 because I don't I think

01:38:26.540 that's a special case

01:38:27.460 because clearly there was

01:38:28.520 stuff that hasn't been

01:38:29.640 released yet that's right

01:38:30.440 that was really bad

01:38:31.300 I don't think it has to

01:38:33.160 do with sex or drugs

01:38:33.960 either there's also I

01:38:35.380 mean with Gates not just

01:38:36.440 that dude practiced a lot

01:38:38.220 for less time than I did

01:38:39.060 I mean really he was he

01:38:40.400 was a lawyer for like two

01:38:41.480 years and then they were

01:38:42.760 like what if we just make

01:38:43.440 you attorney general I was

01:38:44.280 like uh well I mean again

01:38:45.860 that was one where it's

01:38:46.480 like I understand what I

01:38:47.480 think Trump was trying to

01:38:48.220 do there but yeah don't

01:38:49.080 you think that was part of

01:38:49.900 the point no it was just

01:38:50.980 you know it was a brazen

01:38:52.720 no you know that it

01:38:54.540 wasn't you're so

01:38:55.140 neither do you

01:38:55.860 neither do you

01:38:56.280 you've literally told me

01:38:57.320 off camera that you don't

01:38:58.340 think it was strategic

01:38:59.040 I think there was

01:39:00.700 Donald Trump doesn't do

01:39:01.180 strategy that's not a

01:39:02.100 thing I

01:39:02.720 unbelievable

01:39:03.180 so I have I have heard

01:39:04.820 I have heard that it was

01:39:06.560 not strategic however

01:39:07.900 from whom

01:39:08.880 a high-ranking source

01:39:10.100 shall we say

01:39:10.560 a high-ranking

01:39:11.200 someone who knows

01:39:11.940 better than you

01:39:12.520 a high-ranking source

01:39:13.600 told me that it was not

01:39:14.460 strategic however

01:39:15.460 however again to the

01:39:16.660 to your point on building

01:39:18.320 intellectual strategies

01:39:19.300 and to your point Drew

01:39:20.720 Trump I don't think

01:39:22.120 consciously writes out

01:39:23.200 long white papers or

01:39:24.060 anything like that I

01:39:24.840 think he moves by his

01:39:25.640 gut and I do think that

01:39:27.000 there was a gut move

01:39:28.300 with someone like Matt

01:39:29.140 Gates the fact that he is

01:39:30.720 a pugilist and not a

01:39:32.180 long practice

01:39:32.580 100% is the point

01:39:33.960 of course the only

01:39:34.660 this is why I've been

01:39:35.420 so mad at you and Drew

01:39:36.360 for eight years

01:39:37.080 me

01:39:37.340 yes

01:39:37.880 what did I do

01:39:38.960 Henry Olsen says that

01:39:39.960 what Donald Trump's

01:39:40.560 really doing screw you

01:39:41.620 there is no intellectual

01:39:42.660 framework that you can put

01:39:43.500 around Trumpism

01:39:44.060 the only thing that's

01:39:45.200 true of Trump

01:39:45.740 and it's definitely

01:39:47.120 represented in these

01:39:48.020 picks is that Trumpism

01:39:49.460 is an attitude

01:39:50.300 yes

01:39:50.880 that I can completely

01:39:52.540 agree with

01:39:52.960 I've never said he had

01:39:54.120 an intellectual

01:39:54.540 I've agreed with you

01:39:55.580 about the intellectual

01:39:56.300 structures

01:39:56.740 people trying to do

01:39:58.180 what National Review

01:39:59.140 did for Reagan

01:39:59.860 have failed utterly

01:40:00.680 because he's a gut

01:40:01.880 politician

01:40:02.300 I agree with that

01:40:03.520 but gut politicians

01:40:04.480 I mean you can hate me

01:40:05.120 for other reasons

01:40:05.320 I've been mad at you

01:40:06.080 for eight years

01:40:06.460 but I'll let it go

01:40:07.360 plenty of reasons

01:40:07.840 I guess my only point

01:40:09.460 is gut politicians

01:40:11.220 have a gut

01:40:12.340 you know

01:40:12.720 and the gut

01:40:13.160 his gut is doing

01:40:17.160 wonderful things

01:40:17.880 I mean honestly

01:40:18.660 that's great

01:40:19.500 he wants to disrupt

01:40:20.640 the system

01:40:21.120 and so you think

01:40:22.280 by the way

01:40:23.040 I do want to call out

01:40:23.640 Jeremy has a proposal

01:40:24.420 that I think we should

01:40:25.060 air right now

01:40:25.640 I have mentioned this

01:40:26.620 to people in very

01:40:27.580 high places in power

01:40:28.600 and I think it's a good

01:40:29.180 proposal

01:40:29.520 and we should get

01:40:30.380 some momentum behind it

01:40:31.180 so Democrats right now

01:40:32.120 have decided they once

01:40:33.120 again love the filibuster

01:40:33.940 right so

01:40:34.480 they hated the filibuster

01:40:35.600 until the last 30 seconds

01:40:36.560 and now they love

01:40:37.920 the filibuster again

01:40:38.700 so Jeremy has a proposal

01:40:39.980 and it's a very good

01:40:40.720 proposal that I

01:40:41.520 urgently recommend

01:40:42.520 that the Republicans

01:40:43.560 in the Senate take up

01:40:44.460 and that is

01:40:45.280 constitutional amendment

01:40:46.340 to enshrine the filibuster

01:40:47.480 in the Constitution

01:40:48.180 of the United States

01:40:49.040 must be done within

01:40:49.980 the next 18 months

01:40:50.800 or Donald Trump nukes it

01:40:51.780 because the

01:40:53.220 by the way

01:40:53.640 I would do it

01:40:54.140 I would do it

01:40:54.780 with the nine justices

01:40:55.580 on the court too

01:40:56.160 yeah

01:40:56.400 fix the Supreme Court

01:40:57.800 at nine justice

01:40:58.340 we're all against

01:40:59.120 court packing now

01:40:59.940 right

01:41:00.240 so let's put it

01:41:00.820 in the Constitution

01:41:01.460 and if you don't

01:41:02.220 get it done

01:41:02.620 within the next 18 months

01:41:03.660 I'm packing the court

01:41:04.360 excellent ideas

01:41:05.020 I'm not just going to

01:41:05.760 wait for you to do it

01:41:06.840 excellent

01:41:07.120 we can either all agree

01:41:07.980 not to do it

01:41:08.540 the trust is gone

01:41:09.960 I totally agree

01:41:11.280 with Jeremy's point

01:41:11.860 on this

01:41:12.120 it's a great idea

01:41:12.720 so I think we should

01:41:13.320 publicly air it

01:41:13.940 and get behind it

01:41:14.440 well on that note

01:41:15.120 I think we can go home

01:41:17.020 I just got agreed with

01:41:18.240 by Ben Shapiro

01:41:19.400 thank you for hanging out

01:41:20.180 with us tonight

01:41:20.720 at Daily Wire Backstage

01:41:21.700 we still have a little bit

01:41:22.600 of time left

01:41:23.080 on our Cyber Monday deal

01:41:24.240 50% off of Daily Wire

01:41:25.420 Plus membership

01:41:26.040 and you can get

01:41:26.680 Jordan Peterson's

01:41:27.400 great new series

01:41:28.200 The Gospels

01:41:29.140 will be releasing

01:41:29.640 new episodes

01:41:30.160 every Sunday

01:41:31.420 I think this is the last

01:41:32.740 time we're all together

01:41:33.360 until Christmas

01:41:33.940 so I'd like to wish

01:41:34.800 all of you

01:41:36.120 a Merry Christmas

01:41:36.800 and Ben

01:41:37.320 whatever you guys do

01:41:38.380 whatever you guys

01:41:39.000 Sponzo you know

01:41:39.780 night everybody

The Matt Walsh Show - December 03, 2024

Daily Wire Backstage： One More for 2024

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