The Matt Walsh Show - Daily Wire Backstage： The Mask Is Off

00:00:00.000 This episode of Daily Wire Backstage is one you really don't want to miss. Ben Shapiro,

00:00:03.680 Jeremy Boring, Michael Knowles, Andrew Klavan, and myself talk about Joe Biden,

00:00:07.740 the conflict between Israel and Hamas, but the real treat is hearing me dominate the

00:00:12.760 conversation and win the debate about aliens. Trust me, you're going to love it. Thanks for

00:00:17.600 listening. Nobody? Welcome to the Daily Wire Backstage. The mask is off. I'm Jeremy Boring,

00:00:25.440 known as the God King, lowercase g, lowercase k, and we are glad you've tuned in. Can Biden's

00:00:30.640 daily regimen of Gatorade, peanut butter and jelly sandwiches, and Flintstone vitamins really keep

00:00:34.920 him in the tip-top cognitive shape we've come to expect? Is there a certain number of rockets fired

00:00:39.400 by Hamas at Israeli citizens that would actually convince the left that they're on the, quote,

00:00:43.140 wrong side of history because clearly 3,500 isn't the number? And when the UFOs playing peekaboo with

00:00:49.720 our military do finally land, will John Senna apologize to our alien overlords for Hollywood's

00:00:54.680 shame that is The Last Jedi, Battlefield Earth, and Howard the Duck, let's hope he does

00:00:58.940 the right thing in whatever language we all end up speaking. Roll intro graphic.

00:01:18.280 Is there anything more shameful than that John Senna video apologizing in Mandarin for calling the

00:01:24.220 country of Taiwan? Wait, wait, wait. I want to say something about this. It's an actual Mao

00:01:28.480 struggle session. You know, I want to say something about this. Everybody, it's fun to blame him,

00:01:32.720 but it's Universal. It's Universal Studios. No, I blame him. No, you blame Universal Studios. He's

00:01:37.600 not doing that on his own, and Universal Studios is insisting on that because they made more money

00:01:41.480 off this new Fast and Furious thing in China than they're going to make here. That's his fault for

00:01:46.760 going along with it, though. That's right. Universal can tell him to do that. He did it. But he's just a big

00:01:51.660 face, you know, and he's fun to make fun of. And I'm not saying he's not to blame. I'm not saying

00:01:55.100 we shouldn't make fun of him. I'm just saying that we should understand that this is when those

00:01:59.060 Hollywood people get up and they make speeches about how evil we are for voting for Donald Trump

00:02:03.400 when they do all this stuff, they cut scenes of gay love out of movies for different countries.

00:02:09.720 You heard it here. Andrew Klavan does not think John Senna did the wrong thing.

00:02:13.160 The Daily Wire backstage is sponsored by ExpressVPN. For peace of mind whenever you go online, visit

00:02:19.440 expressvpn.com slash backstage. Joining me with all the correct opinions, Andrew, Ben Shapiro,

00:02:27.340 Anna Klavan, Matt Walsh, and Michael Knowles. We are so glad that you're joining us tonight,

00:02:32.540 and we want to take just a quick moment to say, if you want to get your question in, head on over to

00:02:36.860 thedailywire.com and become a member. We take questions from our audience, particularly from

00:02:42.640 our members when we do this show, because they are the reason we are able to do the show in the

00:02:46.480 first place to get access to the box where you can submit your questions. Go become a member,

00:02:50.240 dailywire.com slash subscribe. You can even get 20% off your membership and get automatically

00:02:55.680 entered to win a trip to our studio to meet Candace Owens and the rest of us. All you have to do

00:03:02.660 is use the code VIP. This is the last week you can enter to win, so hurry up before the opportunity

00:03:08.400 slips sliding away. Dailywire.com slash subscribe. This thing's still going. I'm done. That's the

00:03:14.380 entire promo. You heard it here. You heard it here first. Code VIP, and Andrew Klavan thinks that

00:03:21.120 John Cena did this. Basically the whole show. Does he have a deal with China too? Does he have a deal

00:03:26.600 that we sell out? You know, this is Hollywood. It's a whole industry. Of course. Wait,

00:03:32.100 Hollywood are whores? What's that? Hollywood are whores. Wow. You're talking about Hollywood who

00:03:37.640 took the actual remake of Red Dawn, and instead of it being the Chinese, a global superpower.

00:03:43.860 Took the Taiwan patch off Tom Cruise. I mean, come on. And it is unbelievable. It's unbelievable

00:03:49.380 that they're making speeches to us while supporting these communist jackbooted oppressors who are

00:03:55.220 literally putting people in concentration camp. I'll do one better. It is the fault of Hollywood that

00:03:59.260 they've decided. There are two things. One is doing business with China. The second is overtly

00:04:03.440 kowtowing to China. They're not the same thing, right? Doing business with China, but saying that

00:04:07.420 China is an authoritarian garbage state, which it is, I really don't see a huge problem.

00:04:12.000 Well, we all do business with China because we live in a world like a lot of people like to complain

00:04:15.960 sometimes that our leftist here stumblers are made in China. And I always think, are you writing this

00:04:22.360 hateful comment to me on your iPhone? Or on your laptop, which was made in China? Or on your

00:04:28.380 desktop computer, which was made in China? So my broader point is that if you really want to get

00:04:31.700 to the root of the problem here, the root of the problem is that the West made the fundamental

00:04:38.060 miscalculation that if it could get China to engage in market transactions, this would moderate China.

00:04:44.560 And instead, it just made itself dependent on China via market transactions. And what should

00:04:48.240 happen right now and what should have always happened is that the West should be economically

00:04:51.280 isolating China. And that has to be an act of collective action because you can't have American

00:04:55.160 products saying, OK, American manufacturers can't make in China, but we'll still import products from

00:04:59.020 other manufacturers who are making in China and then undercutting them by 20 percent on the price.

00:05:02.520 That's not going to work. There has to be an actual move by the government to prevent people

00:05:06.460 from doing business in China. If you actually want to hamstring the Chinese government.

00:05:10.180 Absolutely. In fairness, I don't think that it was a bad experiment. I don't think it was a bad

00:05:14.360 notion that opening up China economically could have led to liberalization.

00:05:18.520 It just didn't work out.

00:05:19.520 It just didn't work out.

00:05:20.080 You know, Joe Biden. So we're probably not going to get much of this anytime soon because Joe Biden

00:05:24.980 very famously, I think it was only about five years ago, said, a rising China is good for

00:05:30.320 everybody and a rising China will lead to prosperity. And it just didn't happen. That was the argument

00:05:35.620 for letting him into the world trade.

00:05:35.980 How much money did his son make for his country?

00:05:37.540 I know. He waited for the check to clear before that happened. But that was the argument for letting

00:05:41.300 China into the World Trade Organization. And what did China do? They started immediately. They start

00:05:45.380 cheating. They start undercutting us. And they obviously don't change the government.

00:05:48.420 But it's also the argument Obama used in Iran. It's always the wrong argument that if we let

00:05:53.460 these people into the community of nations, they will act as if they're part of the community of

00:05:57.140 nations, as if they're not grownups with a philosophy of their own. They have a philosophy

00:06:01.340 that philosophy is what we're fighting. We're not fighting Chinese people. You know, we're fighting

00:06:05.200 the philosophy.

00:06:05.600 I guess what I would say, though, is that sometimes when I think about FDR, just for example,

00:06:09.160 and obviously I disagree with almost every piece of FDR's domestic, in particular,

00:06:13.320 domestic policy is precedent. But I have a little bit of sympathy. I have a little bit of sympathy for

00:06:18.240 like very early 20th century communists as well.

00:06:22.980 Me too. Yeah, so do I.

00:06:24.000 They didn't know.

00:06:25.100 That's right.

00:06:25.680 I have absolutely no sympathy for modern day communists because you have 100 years of

00:06:30.700 oppression and mass murder that you can look immediately to. And so we know that a lot

00:06:35.840 of those ideas are bad. I'm not sure at the time that Nixon or Kissinger were opening up.

00:06:39.220 There are also real politic concerns. I mean, part of the argument was that opening China would

00:06:43.880 make China more moderate. But the other part of it was take China off the table so they're not

00:06:46.840 an ally to Russia. Right. That was that was really the real policy concern involved in the opening

00:06:50.880 of China. But the issue now is how do we shut down China? Because China is indeed an aggressive

00:06:56.800 authoritarian enemy of the United States that is pursuing global power, threatening Taiwan.

00:07:01.580 They just subjected the free state of Hong Kong and nobody cared to complete tyranny over the course

00:07:05.220 of two years.

00:07:05.980 Unbelievable.

00:07:06.340 So they just took it right over. It's the first reversal, total reversal for a free country since

00:07:10.540 the end of the Cold War. It's an amazing, amazing thing. The world just did not give any craps

00:07:14.600 at all. That's not fair. The NBA cared.

00:07:18.480 And so the real problem I see right now is now what's what's amazing right now is that now you

00:07:23.800 have a unique opportunity for the West to mobilize in opposition to China. Why? Well, because we now

00:07:28.180 have fairly good information that this this Wuhan virus probably started in the lab in Wuhan,

00:07:33.880 right?

00:07:34.140 Whoa, whoa, whoa.

00:07:34.700 I want to know, are we going to get a video of Ben Shapiro saying,

00:07:38.860 yeah, start speaking Mandarin to apologize for all of this. But the reality that, you know,

00:07:47.660 this story was cudgeled to death for a year, right? If you if you said this in social media,

00:07:52.400 they would literally take you off of Twitter and off of Facebook because it was a conspiracy

00:07:55.620 theory. It was fact check false by PolitiFact. And they just had to reverse the fact check

00:07:59.220 because PolitiFact, of course, is a garbage partisan organization designed only to shut down

00:08:02.680 conservative outlets.

00:08:03.400 Yeah, like all fact checkers.

00:08:05.220 Pretty much. But like this is such an opportunity for the United States and for the rest of the

00:08:10.100 world to say, OK, so China did two things, both of which are unbelievably egregious and led to the

00:08:14.260 deaths of millions of people. Right. Number one, this thing in all likelihood began through a gain

00:08:19.560 of function research failure at a at a Chinese laboratory. And it was allowed to escape the lab

00:08:24.240 in November 2019, which brings you to the much bigger thing because mistakes get made.

00:08:28.280 The much bigger thing is that they then hid this all the way until the end of January.

00:08:32.140 Yeah. Right. So to be fair, once the DNA sequencing on COVID-19 was released within one

00:08:39.420 weekend, the scientific community had created the vaccine one weekend. By the end of the weekend,

00:08:43.940 the mRNA vaccine sequencing was done. Literally, they released it at the beginning of the weekend.

00:08:48.380 By the following Sunday, everybody had sequenced the mRNA vaccine. And then it took all the way

00:08:52.960 until November to get it ready for market. OK, although if you'd cut out all the middlemen and

00:08:56.500 you really accelerated, maybe you're ready by September, October.

00:08:59.480 And if there hadn't been a presidential election for sure by October, 100 percent. But if this

00:09:03.700 is started in November, say you use the exact same timeline and they release the DNA sequencing on

00:09:08.100 COVID-19 in November or December and you push the entire timeline up by two months, how many lives

00:09:13.940 get saved? That last wave happened in September, October, November. It killed like 200,000 people.

00:09:18.420 I also have a question of this gain of function research that they claim makes it easier to study

00:09:23.440 these viruses. But it also essentially weaponizes the virus. I mean, do we know what the Wuhan lab is

00:09:30.240 not sitting around making viruses for germ warfare? I mean, I think we probably have known for decades.

00:09:35.500 That's what they're doing. Right. We in the United States have known. Except for Anthony Fauci.

00:09:40.920 But I had a mask on and I was facing the wall. And now when Fauci is being caught, you know,

00:09:44.420 Rand Paul is now accusing him of perjuring himself because Anthony Fauci said the United States has not

00:09:49.640 in any way funded gain of function research that was done in Wuhan. And Anthony Fauci very cleverly

00:09:54.840 denied. And he said, we did not send any money to Wuhan for gain of function research, but we did

00:09:59.760 fund gain of function research that was done in cooperation with Wuhan. Exactly. I'm just one thing

00:10:04.360 I'm wondering through all this is, first of all, what is gain of function research? But secondly,

00:10:09.500 when you when you look at the fact that for a year we weren't allowed to talk about the lab in Wuhan

00:10:16.720 and now all of a sudden we can. I think the assumption among a lot of conservatives is that

00:10:20.260 well, it's the media was covering for China. I think that's part of it. But I also think

00:10:24.100 a bigger part of it is just that it was a common sense

00:10:27.840 conclusion that anyone could draw. Once you realize this came from Wuhan, they have this

00:10:33.040 lab there. Gee, that's a coincidence.

00:10:35.920 Right. And there are so many common sense judgments that people have been making for a year that the

00:10:41.520 media said, no, no, no. Hey, wait. Hold on a second. Wait for us to tell you you're allowed to draw that

00:10:45.820 conclusion. Right. Then you can. So now, yeah, you're allowed to talk about it. But just because

00:10:49.740 they don't want regular people to go off on their own thinking about things. And the Washington Post

00:10:53.700 is as much as said we denied it because Trump said it. Right. They said, well, Margaret and Margaret

00:10:58.980 Haberman, Maggie Haberman. She said she said that on national TV. She said, well, because Trump was

00:11:03.720 talking about it, obviously we couldn't take it seriously. And it's like, well, actually, that would

00:11:06.940 mean that you should take some of those New York Times reporters and maybe, you know, go research this sort

00:11:11.120 of thing. You don't have to take the president at face value. You could go check. But the thing

00:11:16.060 that's truly amazing is that why isn't the Biden administration taking this opportunity? I mean,

00:11:20.740 literally half a million people died in the United States of COVID-19. Like, why isn't he taking the

00:11:25.500 opportunity to say, OK, now is the time for us to crack down on China? By the way, there's wide

00:11:28.780 bipartisan approval for this. If you look in the polling on whether Democrats and Republicans are kind of

00:11:32.940 there's like the only thing we agree on is that China is an actual threat and that China screwed

00:11:37.120 the pooch on COVID. And the fact that Biden instead is saying, well, you know, let's let the WHO do

00:11:43.040 their investigation and we don't need an independent investor. We don't need to put any pressure like

00:11:46.940 this is that we were told if you remember what Michael said, because Biden believes that a rising

00:11:53.020 China is right. He still holds his view. They're not bad people, folks. They're not bad people. It's not

00:11:57.360 even just that Biden's not taking this seriously. He's impeding the investigation. There was a State

00:12:02.760 Department investigation launched under the Trump administration. And Blinken, the new

00:12:06.820 secretary of state, shut it down when he got into office. Well, this is a hallmark of their entire

00:12:10.560 foreign policy, right, which is never let the facts get in the way of your ideology.

00:12:13.940 But it's also also the racial stuff just makes it impossible, I think, for modern day Democrats.

00:12:18.920 That's why we didn't we've heard some people in the media saying they deleted some of the tweets,

00:12:22.760 but saying that, of course, it's racist. They were saying that for a year, but some are still saying

00:12:26.440 it's racist. Right. Just just today. So so the fact that Chinese people are not white is a big

00:12:33.220 political problem for for Joe Biden and the Democrats. I think in some ways it's as simple

00:12:37.760 as that, that, you know, this came from a place where these are not white people. And so this is

00:12:41.680 getting very offensive. I was in Washington's D.C.'s Chinatown the other day, and there's a big

00:12:46.680 lit poster, electric poster telling us not to hate Asian people. I'm beginning to be offended by

00:12:52.780 these signs telling me not to hate people. You know, it's like, first of all, screw you. Who the hell

00:12:57.800 are you to tell me? I'll hate whoever I want. No, but I will hate whoever I want. And why what

00:13:03.320 makes them think this country that has been so welcoming to everybody has been so welcoming to

00:13:08.100 everybody needs a lecture from corporate toadies who are doing business with the Chinese and doing

00:13:12.940 business to the point where they won't criticize them. Why? Why are they lecturing me? Anybody who

00:13:17.360 can afford that sign shouldn't be lecturing me. Put a sign about how we shouldn't hate Asian

00:13:20.720 people up at the Harvard admittance. Right, right. That's where that belongs. There's a question

00:13:24.960 from a dailywire.com subscriber for the group. If the Wuhan virus was man-made, how should the U.S.

00:13:31.460 respond? Not how will they, which is not at all. How should they respond? Well, I mean, the really,

00:13:36.500 the big question isn't whether it was man-made. It was whether the leak was the responsibility of

00:13:41.520 the lab and whether they then covered that up for months, right? Because without the cover-up,

00:13:45.660 even there you would understand, okay, this is the stand, right? Something escapes a military facility.

00:13:49.400 It's not the first time this sort of thing has happened before, actually. But once it starts

00:13:53.160 getting covered up, that's the real moral responsibility because they knew for months,

00:13:56.300 for sure, 100 percent that this thing was transmitting human to human. They were lying

00:14:00.560 about their casualty statistics. They knew 30,000 people probably died in Wuhan. They said 3,000

00:14:05.400 people died in Wuhan. What should the punishment be? The punishment should be massive economic

00:14:09.980 sanctions against any company that is based in China. I mean, that should be like take on the

00:14:15.340 entire economic regime of the Chinese. What's amazing to me is that the Biden administration is

00:14:20.260 willing to sacrifice the American economy so that we can blow out the dollar by borrowing

00:14:24.300 money from China, essentially. But if you are actually going to make economic sacrifices,

00:14:28.860 you should do so for perhaps the higher purpose of getting rid of the authoritarian regime in China,

00:14:33.860 which is threatening all of its neighbors and threatening the freedom of the United States

00:14:38.020 eventually because we can lose this thing by default. That's the part that I'm afraid of.

00:14:41.460 You know, this is why I don't think it's the worst idea in the world for there to be a union of

00:14:45.620 democracies. You know, instead of a United Nations, which I think we should walk out of tomorrow,

00:14:50.400 if not yesterday, I think this should be a union of actual free peoples that they can stand together

00:14:55.500 against threats like this. You know, one of the things I thought Trump did that was was reckless

00:15:00.580 was when he got rid of that Asian, you know, the United States partnership because we do need to act

00:15:05.760 together against this. He had problems with it, but this was a big mistake. He should. Yeah. TPP was

00:15:09.800 legitimate problems to it. But I agree. There are certainly problems with the TPP. It gave

00:15:14.720 too much power to international institutions, but it should have been corrected in the same way that

00:15:18.820 Trump tried to correct NAFTA, right? I do not think it would be a terrible thing to have an

00:15:23.060 international union of democracies. I think this is this is the thing we keep talking about globalism

00:15:27.300 as if it's somehow going to go away. It's a global world. It's a global world. I can pick up my take

00:15:32.300 the phone out of my pocket and call Afghanistan and and get put directly through. It's a global world.

00:15:37.360 We need to unite the people who actually believe that the people should rule. But is the issue here that we

00:15:42.020 want instant regime change in China or is the issue we want to contain China and stop them from

00:15:48.920 aggressing on Taiwan, aggressing in Hong Kong, aggressing on our interests in the South China

00:15:53.000 Sea, aggressing on us economically? We have to cut off their leverage. Right now,

00:15:57.140 they have way too much leverage over America's ability to operate, whether it is through the

00:16:00.960 number of American treasuries they hold or whether it is over the number of American businesses who are

00:16:06.400 doing serious business. The property they steal. Yes, I do want a regime change in China. But if you're

00:16:11.000 asking me if I want some sort of military regime change or some sort of instantaneous regime

00:16:16.000 change, no. But I think that if you're a if you love the idea of human freedom, then your long term

00:16:22.020 objective would be to see China liberated from this mess that they've made or this. Yeah. As long as it's

00:16:28.020 not going to cost me five dollars more for my iPhone. Forget the whole thing. And the thing is that we have

00:16:32.940 the model of this, right? The United States did not engage in large scale trade with the Soviet Union in

00:16:37.900 the middle of the Cold War. The United States basically cut them off at the knees economically.

00:16:41.040 And then we outcompeted them because their system was not capable of functioning. I do want to push

00:16:44.660 back on that, though, because I think what you just said reinforces a bad idea out there that

00:16:48.520 people have, even on the right, about how economics work. Your iPhone is not five dollars cheaper because

00:16:54.100 it's manufactured in China. Your iPhone exists at all because it's manufactured in China. Yeah, that's true,

00:17:00.260 but that shouldn't be true. I agree that it shouldn't be true, but it is true because it isn't just that it's

00:17:04.980 cheaper in China. It's that in America you cannot manufacture at the rate of innovation because of

00:17:13.500 things like environmental regulations, because of all of the just all of the rules that impede trade

00:17:20.800 the precious the precious minerals that they use to make this stuff. We have those available and you

00:17:26.160 can't get out of here. And this is but this is something that needs to be addressed that actually

00:17:30.080 when you're saving the environment, which is not in any trouble, really, which is not not a crisis

00:17:34.800 at all. You are enslaving people and you're making it easier to enslave. Well, we've outsourced all

00:17:38.880 of our pollution at the world countries, right? Yeah, I was I my my I was in the car recently with my

00:17:44.080 son. He was peppering me with all these questions about how different things are made. And of course,

00:17:48.080 you know, as a parent, you realize how stupid you are. I can't answer most of them. But at one point

00:17:51.660 he asked me, how long did it take to build the Empire State Building, which was built 90 years ago or so.

00:17:56.820 And so I thought, you know, OK, maybe 10 years or something like six days. Yeah, I looked at and I

00:18:02.180 looked it up. And so I said, OK, let's look it up. And it was built in a year. Yeah. And of course,

00:18:07.700 you you try to build the Empire State Building today. I mean, look at the at the building that

00:18:11.640 replaced the World Trade Center. It took them it took them 15 years to even get even get started.

00:18:14.820 I've been doing the big dig in Boston since Ted Kennedy was wandering around leaving women in rivers.

00:18:19.620 Right. And that's that's back when you wanted to build a building. You just built the building.

00:18:22.720 But now it would take five years to even get the permits to even start. So right.

00:18:26.200 What you need to do while you're trying to figure out, well, if everything is going terribly,

00:18:30.740 what what should I do? What can I do, Jeremy? You can go to Policy Genius and you need to go to

00:18:35.120 Policy Genius. We laugh. I like to have fun with the ad reads. But you have a responsibility to the

00:18:40.040 people in your life. What will happen if you are gone and unable to care for them? The answer is you

00:18:45.180 need a life insurance policy like all other kinds of insurance. You need to be a responsible adult

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00:19:12.800 service has earned Policy Genius a five star rating across thousands of reviews on Trustpilot and on

00:19:18.080 Google. And from me, I've told you guys before, I've gotten three life insurance policies on

00:19:23.160 policygenius.com. One for myself to provide for my wife and for my child in the event of my,

00:19:29.100 I shouldn't say the unlikely event, it's the very likely event of my untimely demise. One on my wife,

00:19:34.900 because, you know, she also has responsibilities to our child. And the most important one is the one

00:19:39.660 that I carry on Ben Shapiro. Head to policygenius.com. Get started right now. Policy Genius,

00:19:46.020 when it comes to insurance, it's nice to get it right. It's even more nice to do the right

00:19:50.240 thing. Policygenius.com. Okay. You forgot the one you took out on Knowles because of the murder

00:19:54.680 plot. Wait, hold on a second. That can be evidence. The problem with getting a life insurance policy

00:20:01.620 that would give me the kind of confidence it would take to murder Knowles is that he would have to have

00:20:06.660 a medical exam first. And there's not even policygenius.com. No, he would be gone. Could never deal with all

00:20:15.100 of this. It's too healthy. China bad. Another thing going on in the world that's been bad since

00:20:20.680 the last time we were together is this horrible conflict going on in the Middle East. Hamas

00:20:25.380 deciding to fire 3,500 rockets indiscriminately into Israel and Israel responding the way that any

00:20:33.580 first world power would, which is with very expensive, very technological, very directed,

00:20:39.860 but very lethal force. And to see the reaction both in the news media and in the left politics in this

00:20:49.920 country has just been unbelievable. I want to talk about it for a little bit. You know, someone this

00:20:55.040 week, our very own Candace Owens made this great point. She said, you know, there are people on the

00:21:01.300 left who are sending me pictures of dead Palestinians, children even saying, you know, if you don't speak

00:21:06.120 out against this, then you don't deserve to have your platform. And there are people on the right

00:21:09.740 who are saying, you know, if you don't stand up for Israel, you don't deserve to have a platform.

00:21:13.020 And Candace rightly said, we can't all be experts on everything all the time. She said, I'm reading

00:21:18.500 books about this. I'm trying to get educated. She has a history of doing this on other issues in the

00:21:22.220 past where she doesn't want to speak out until she really knows. And I appreciate that. At the same

00:21:27.080 time, I don't think that one has to be an expert to understand the immorality of firing rockets

00:21:34.440 indiscriminately into civilian areas. It seems to me that what the left has been saying during this

00:21:40.160 conflict is essentially because Israel is better at war than the Palestinians, Israel is evil, which

00:21:49.220 A, makes me understand why we do so badly in wars in this country. If 50% of Americans actually think

00:21:54.980 that the purpose of war is equal destruction. Well, no, we need equity. It's equity in warfare is

00:22:01.660 equitable outcome, equitable outcome in warfare. Um, but essentially they're saying Israel would

00:22:07.680 be a lot better if more Jews died in these conflicts. Well, Israel is also the West and

00:22:11.380 they, they seriously hate the West. It is, it is amazing to me. I read on the air Hamas's charter,

00:22:18.260 which is just a series of anti-Jewish filth. They blame them for the French revolution. I'm not

00:22:25.880 making this up. I wish I were making this up. They blame Jews for the French revolution. They blame

00:22:29.580 Jews for world war one. They blame Jews for world war two, their clever plan to exterminate

00:22:33.960 themselves in order to take over the world. I don't know what that was about, but you know,

00:22:37.780 this is the kind of stuff. They quote the Hadiths about Jews hiding behind rocks and trees and Muslims

00:22:42.080 being called to kill them. It is everything, everything, but the blood libel is in it, but I'm

00:22:45.840 sure they would believe in the blood libel too. Surely, surely, if somebody tells you, you know,

00:22:51.260 my philosophy is that I believe Jews should be exterminated because of this. We should believe them.

00:22:55.660 We should believe that this is a, a genocidal terrorist movement that was elected, was duly

00:23:02.320 elected by the Palestinian people somewhere along the line that has to be addressed. And somewhere

00:23:06.980 along the line has to be addressed that the Jewish state is the freest, uh, most multicultural,

00:23:12.720 most successful state in the Middle East and should be imitated. The thing that drives me about this,

00:23:17.680 and it goes back to what you were saying, it goes back to what you were saying about no, uh,

00:23:21.300 no policy result is going to change their philosophy. Right. The, the Iranian deal by Obama,

00:23:29.220 one of the great disasters of his administration was overturned by Donald Trump and he instituted

00:23:34.340 the first actual advance in Middle East peace that I have seen in my lifetime, which now goes

00:23:39.500 back to 1776. Right. So this is the first time I ever saw anybody do anything. Just a little bit of

00:23:44.100 a change in, in the strategy of going into the Middle East. They have gone directly back to the

00:23:49.660 Iranian deal. I mean, to, and when you bring this terrorist state, the Iran, Iran is a terrorist

00:23:54.900 state. When you bring it back into the center of power in the Middle East, you encourage all the

00:23:59.320 bad actors to climb on board. They're the ones who are funding Hamas. They're the ones who are sending

00:24:03.040 them the missiles. It is, it's just incredible to me that no fact can penetrate their ideology.

00:24:08.700 To give it a two minute synopsis for people who don't know the modern origins of this particular

00:24:12.740 conflict. First of all, do not go back to the Exodus. I definitely don't. I have a video coming out

00:24:17.480 that's like a full hour going all the way back to the Exodus, but no joke. But the, but the, the,

00:24:22.780 what, what Drew says about Hamas is not only correct. The fact is that what just happened

00:24:26.360 over the past few months, what, what actually drove this, what started this is that in late April,

00:24:30.480 Mahmoud Abbas is the head of the Palestinian authority. He's currently in the 16th year of

00:24:33.900 a four year elected term because the last election in the Palestinian authority was held in 2005.

00:24:39.720 So he's now, you know, 85 or 15 days, kind of like 15 days to slow the spread. Exactly.

00:24:44.800 Exactly. So he, he was elected. So he, he won in the West bank in very contentious circumstances.

00:24:50.440 Then Hamas won the next year in the Gaza strip. So he called another election because the Biden

00:24:54.580 administration said, we would love to see you guys do an election. So he called an election

00:24:57.700 and then he looked at the polling and he realized he was going to lose to Hamas because Hamas right

00:25:01.180 now rules the Gaza strip and they're at war, literal war, like people killing each other

00:25:04.300 with the Palestinian authority and Islamic Jihad. So he called these elections and then he canceled

00:25:08.600 the elections in late April. He said, oh, you know what? Bad idea. No more elections. And so in order

00:25:12.880 to distract Palestinians from the fact that he had just canceled an election, it would have allowed

00:25:16.460 him to be replaced in power. He decided to launch essentially a terror campaign against Israel.

00:25:21.300 He started posting videos on Fatah TV about how it was good to stab Jews. He started encouraging

00:25:26.100 Fatah members to go up to the Temple Mount and fling rocks and projectiles at Israeli police to start a

00:25:30.940 conflagration on the Temple Mount that could then be treated as though it was a mutual conflict on a

00:25:35.940 Temple Mount. And he started propagandizing about what was happening in Sheikh Jarrah, which is a suburb of

00:25:39.580 Jerusalem. There's a 50 year, literally 50 year legal case that has been winding its way through

00:25:44.300 the courts about, I kid you not, four houses. These four houses were basically owned by Jews

00:25:49.020 before 1948. Jordan won this territory between 48 and 67. They handed deeds over to a bunch of Arabs

00:25:54.340 in that area. Israel respected the deeds that were handed over, but there were four houses where

00:25:58.320 Jordan hadn't handed over deeds. So the Jews came back in 67 after they won and they said, okay,

00:26:03.520 well now these houses, we have the title, it's our house. The courts came up with the solution. You guys pay

00:26:07.420 rent and you get to stay. The Palestinians didn't pay rent for 50 years. And so finally the Jews

00:26:11.640 were like, well, you didn't pay rent, so we're evicting you. That was the eviction crisis.

00:26:15.100 Four houses in Sheikh Jarrah. Okay. There are 1.9 million Israeli Arabs living in the state of

00:26:19.860 Israel. So when people talk about ethnic cleansing or moving people out, there are 1.9 million Arabs

00:26:24.460 living in Israel. There are zero Jews living in Gaza. There are zero Jews living under the

00:26:27.980 Palestinian authority. There's only one apartheid regime in this particular conflict and it is not Israel

00:26:32.440 by any stretch of the imagination. Hamas had to get in on the business. Once Fatah started

00:26:36.140 the conflict in order to generate more publicity for themselves, Hamas couldn't be left out. Now

00:26:39.740 it's a party, right? So they start firing rockets at Israel in order to not be left out and to outflank

00:26:44.240 Fatah. And you can see, by the way, all of this play out after the ceasefire was signed. There's

00:26:48.320 this big, the riots on the Temple Mount have continued. In Al-Aqsa Mosque, you have thousands

00:26:52.380 of Muslims who have gathered and they actually shouted out the Grand Mufti of Jerusalem, who's a Fatah

00:26:57.200 member, a member of Mahmoud Abbas's party. They shouted him out shouting, we are Mohammed Dayif's men,

00:27:01.680 meaning Mohammed Dayif is the spiritual leader of Hamas. We are with Hamas.

00:27:05.320 So all of this is basically just an internal Palestinian conflict that was then projected

00:27:09.280 outward at the Israelis. And the Israelis were like, okay, listen, thank God for Iron Dome. We

00:27:13.160 can prevent 90% of these projectiles from hitting Israelis, but we're going to have to take out like

00:27:18.360 a bunch of your stuff. When we say that any state did what Israel would have done, that's not true.

00:27:23.080 Any state that was hit with 4,500 rockets in the middle of, for example, its capital city or Tel Aviv

00:27:27.960 or Washington DC or New York, let me put this, of a thousand rockets at San Diego, which is not a top 10

00:27:32.840 American city in terms of population. The American flag would be flying in Mexico City by tomorrow

00:27:37.100 morning. And we all know this.

00:27:38.760 I also wonder from just the perspective of the American interest, I think there are plenty of good moral

00:27:43.960 arguments to be made about the problem itself in Israel and Palestinian Arabs. But just from the

00:27:49.200 American interest, I'm confused as to how it would serve the American interest to back Hamas or to back the

00:27:56.300 national pretensions of a people that would elect Hamas. When people say Hamas doesn't represent

00:28:00.680 the Palestinians, Hamas does in fact represent the Palestinians. Hamas won an election. They're

00:28:04.840 about to win another. Yeah. So I just don't understand. I suppose the argument would be that

00:28:09.780 Israel, you know, relatively young nation, that's the big problem. And so we've got to give more power

00:28:15.580 to the Palestinian Arabs who are calling for, by the way, from the river to the sea, Palestine to be

00:28:20.460 free. So they're calling for the eradication of Israel. Does anyone believe that that is a tenable?

00:28:24.460 Taking the moral arguments aside, that that's a tenable thing? You're going to wipe out a nuclear

00:28:28.960 power that the world would tolerate that? That doesn't seem like such a good idea. So now we're

00:28:32.620 going to back Hamas? You know what's heartbreaking about this? When I was a kid, we were really not

00:28:37.140 that far from the Holocaust. And I used to call us, I actually wrote this, that we were holiday Jews.

00:28:43.240 We were taking a holiday from a history, a relentless history of anti-Semitism. I mean,

00:28:48.420 the nonstop hatred of the Jewish people that has really been going on before the year dot,

00:28:53.700 as they say in England, it's been going on forever. We have this holiday and the holiday's

00:28:58.060 over and it's heartbreaking. It is heartbreaking to see Jewish, ordinary Jewish people attacked on

00:29:03.880 the street and no one saved. As with all racism in America, we all lived in this beautiful period

00:29:09.600 where it wasn't happening and now it's back. I do want to pick up though briefly on what Michael

00:29:13.520 is bringing up because there are a lot of voices on the right today that call into question our

00:29:19.800 relationship with Israel. Some, some very ugly voices. I think it's important to say that when

00:29:24.080 we, I'm very critical of the America first movement. There are, there are two distinct

00:29:28.540 America first movements. Yeah, there's Lindbergh's. Well, there's, there's Trump who uses America first

00:29:33.680 to mean that America must put America's interest ahead of other interests. And then there's the

00:29:38.780 America first movement, uh, which is online jolly, uh, right-wing trolls who actually are racist

00:29:47.420 and actually do despise the state of Israel and actually do want an American, uh, a white ethno

00:29:51.920 state in this country. It's unfortunate because they're sophisticated online trolls that they've

00:29:56.600 used the language of Donald Trump's, Hey, wouldn't it just be nice if we put America's interest ahead

00:30:01.140 of, uh, other interests, but they have. And so when I'm critical of America first, I'm not being

00:30:05.600 critical of Donald Trump. I'm being critical of the people. First of all, Donald Trump was the

00:30:08.780 most pro-Israel president. But you do have this America first movement, this internet America

00:30:15.280 first movement, uh, but, but very, very hostile to Israel. And they, they say a lot of things,

00:30:21.220 you know, they, they're angry about the bombing of the USS Liberty, uh, in 1967. I used to get

00:30:28.140 this, people ask me that question. They're like, really? Yeah. They, they apparently haven't heard

00:30:32.560 that, you know, England burned the actual white house during the war of 1812. Why can't Israel be

00:30:38.640 allies don't ever get mad at each other? Anyway. Uh, but I, but I sort of think like,

00:30:42.840 you're right. There's this distinction and this, as with all these terms, they're used in lots of

00:30:47.020 different ways, but let's, let's take it totally seriously for a second. Let's say this is a,

00:30:51.000 just from the American interest point of view, this is where I'm going. Right.

00:30:53.980 The claim, I guess, is that it is in the American interest to ditch Israel, that we've got a sort of

00:31:01.760 Israel first foreign policy. And, you know, like so many of these online movements, first of all,

00:31:06.780 you got to remember, a lot of these guys are very, very young. A lot of them are pushed to the

00:31:11.560 fringes. A lot of them are told you're evil because you're a white person or you're a man

00:31:14.920 or whatever. So like I was young once, I remember the sort of crazy, extreme things, 18 year olds

00:31:20.520 say, but, but what does that mean? I mean, I just, just because you're reacting, it's like,

00:31:27.700 you know, when we're told that men are evil, take Israel out of our present, we're told men are evil.

00:31:31.680 One way that men react when they're 18 years old and they're just so sick and tired of this

00:31:36.400 is they become sort of performatively sexist or chauvinist or misogynistic or whatever.

00:31:41.440 That's not the answer, right? That's just sort of the flip side of the coin. So I think,

00:31:44.540 sure, if someone, if, if these guys are saying where we've been told our whole lives that Israel

00:31:50.140 is the greatest ally of the United States ever in the history of the world. And now we found out

00:31:53.760 it's only like a fine ally, but it's not like the greatest one ever. I think, well, okay. So your

00:31:58.420 answer is to back Hamas? What are you talking about?

00:32:00.680 I think just to take up a little bit for, for, for them, not really, but, um, I think obviously

00:32:07.320 from, from a moral standpoint, morally, it's clear. And all you have to do is apply like just

00:32:11.760 war theory to this. And, uh, you know, one thing in, in waging a just war is first of all,

00:32:16.220 there has to be a chance of success. And when you have Hamas just firing rockets randomly at

00:32:20.080 the civilian centers, nothing's going to happen from that, except that you kill a bunch of civilians

00:32:24.680 maybe, and then get destroyed yourself. So, right. But at the same time, I think one thing,

00:32:30.100 the people that you're talking about, one thing that, uh, annoys them is when they see,

00:32:38.600 I think, I don't remember who tweeted, someone tweeted something like, if you're an American

00:32:41.360 patriot, it means you're pro Israel or something like that. Um, this, this idea that like it is

00:32:47.020 your patriotic duty to have this particular feeling about another country, no matter what

00:32:52.060 the other country is, I don't care what country it is. Um, so that, that goes too far on that

00:32:55.960 side of it. And I think they're kind of reacting. It's kind of what you're saying. Yep.

00:32:58.240 But they're reacting to that. I do think, um, I do think that there is something patriotic

00:33:03.300 about supporting our allies because we form alliances because it's in our national interest

00:33:08.580 to form alliances and having formed those alliances. And, and if we're all operating in a kind of good

00:33:13.840 faith where those alliances are concerned, then there is a kind of patriotic. Yeah, but you don't

00:33:17.880 have a, you don't have a patriotic, you don't have a patriotic, you do not have a patriotic

00:33:21.980 duty to support any country that is not your own. Well, it's, I will say that, that I think

00:33:27.360 that what that statement is missing is the phrase at the end right now. Okay. So I don't think that

00:33:32.320 you have a patriotic duty to eternally support any other country because circumstances change the

00:33:36.620 country. I mean, how many times we've seen alliances change and people end up on the other

00:33:39.420 side of those alliances. But the, the idea that in a conflict between a democratic ally and an actual

00:33:45.420 terror group that it, that it doesn't connect to any sort of, we're not talking about nationalism

00:33:50.220 now, which is just attachment to country. We're talking about patriotism, which goes to underlying

00:33:53.240 principle that you have no duty at all to, to support a fellow democracy that is an ally in

00:33:59.900 its own battle for survival. That seems to me to, to raise some patriotism principles in the same way

00:34:05.300 that we raise patriotism principles to say that if Hitler were about to overrun Britain, people who

00:34:09.680 are saying, well, you know what, it doesn't implicate the United States at all or patriotism at all to

00:34:14.220 watch Hitler overrun Britain. And it seems like it kind of implicates patriotism to watch Hitler overrun

00:34:18.160 Britain. But you know, the other side of this is that no matter who does this, it helps the left,

00:34:22.120 whether the right does it or whether the left does it. It's the same, it's the same thing with blacks.

00:34:25.940 If, if the left so encourages black violence in cities that some white people start to say,

00:34:31.920 well, those blacks are being violent, that all helps the left. They want us fighting with each

00:34:35.600 other. They want us fighting with our fellow citizens. They want us to hate people who are

00:34:39.680 different than us. They want, and they don't care. They don't care if they inspire blacks to have

00:34:44.680 hostility against white people. But if that then inspires white people to have hostilities against

00:34:48.680 black, they don't care because we're fighting with each other instead of fighting with the people

00:34:52.480 who are usurping power from the people. And that's, that is all happening at the top. That's always

00:34:57.920 happening at the top.

00:34:58.780 I sort of am even kind of of your opinion, Matt, to, to give, give the critics here even more of,

00:35:08.360 of the benefit of the doubt, just to make the realpolitik argument, which is, you know, during

00:35:13.320 Trump, we were told that we had to back the Kurds. The Kurds are our greatest ally. The Kurds are the

00:35:17.860 most wonderful people in the world. And Turkey was aggressing against the Kurds. But this creates a

00:35:22.140 problem is Turkey has been a NATO ally for how many decades at this point? So now do we reflexively

00:35:27.280 back our ally Turkey in this battle with the Kurds? I don't know. That raised a lot of problems on the

00:35:31.920 right. So I understand there were nuances.

00:35:34.140 But we, but we should have, we are no longer allies of Turkey. And the fact that we, the fact

00:35:38.820 that we are unprepared to move with haste to, to address the changing realities that Ben refers to.

00:35:45.760 And this, and this context is completely different in the sense that we were never allies of Hamas.

00:35:50.220 There's no world in which we are allied with Hamas.

00:35:51.860 This is sort of my point is I just mean, you know, granting that, that people are just

00:35:56.480 rebelling in this very, I think, emotional and reactionary way against these sort of extreme

00:36:02.340 statements that we, you know, that's your patriotic duty to be an ally of Israel or something to just

00:36:06.180 say, look, in this case, we just should back Israel. Israel's the better.

00:36:11.700 I can understand the principled argument. I'll give people this. I can't even understand the

00:36:14.740 principled argument that the United States should just be hands off completely in terms of foreign

00:36:17.480 policy. I think it's wrong. But I think that, but I can understand the complete isolationist

00:36:21.300 argument. Why are we involved anywhere in the world, right? I think that it's an ignorant

00:36:24.820 argument that's based on a failure to understand the realities of the world, which is that vacuums

00:36:28.340 exist and that bad states fill them if we leave those vacuums open, which is the lesson of the

00:36:31.900 last century and a half. Yeah. But if, but I can at least understand that argument. What I cannot

00:36:36.300 understand is the situational application of that argument. Yes. Yeah. Right. Which is, okay, well,

00:36:41.360 we should be involved here and we should be involved there. But this particular one,

00:36:44.680 we should definitely not be involved in. And I have real objections to these Jews firing,

00:36:49.000 firing, you know, at Hamas batteries that are located in civilian areas to protect themselves.

00:36:54.120 I've, I've heard people this week say, you know, if Israel, you know, Israel might be our ally,

00:36:59.220 but why are we giving them military aid? We, you know, England is our ally and we don't give them

00:37:03.680 military aid. It's like, well, no, the last time England was in a war, not only did we give them

00:37:10.260 military aid, we gave them a significant percentage of our GDP. And then when things got bad enough,

00:37:15.080 we gave them hundreds of thousands of our sons. And then when it was over, we gave them the Marshall

00:37:19.540 plan and rebuilt their entire country. It's important to, I think with a conversation like

00:37:24.560 this to get really specific, because one of the, one of the issues here is that there are so many

00:37:29.840 things caught up in it. So we could talk about what's in America's interest to support Israel.

00:37:34.460 What's, what's, what's the morally, what the morality of it, but then also there are other

00:37:39.500 things that caught up in this. Like for example, evangelical conservatives tend to also believe

00:37:45.620 that it's our religious duty. We're biblically called to support Israel. And that, and that

00:37:50.640 brings in a whole other aspect of the conversation. And then you have people that kind of react against

00:37:54.500 that and are saying, well, no, we don't, you know, I think it's a misinterpretation of Christian

00:37:57.820 doctrine. And, you know, so I think we have to, you have to be really specific in this conversation.

00:38:02.380 Here's one place where I think that we should all be able to agree. And frankly, I think that

00:38:05.980 people of any level of good heart should be able to agree in a conflict between a thriving,

00:38:11.400 diverse democracy that upholds humanitarian values and an actual honest to God,

00:38:15.380 a genocidal terror group. That's not a moral choice. Whatever you think are the practical

00:38:19.560 applications as to whether the United States should be involved or should provide aid or any

00:38:23.800 of that sort of stuff on a moral level, the New York times is specifically saying that Israel is

00:38:27.700 in the wrong, that Israel should not be defending itself, right? You have them literally printing

00:38:31.240 op-eds from people who are activists for Hamas, downplaying the evils of Hamas. You have the

00:38:35.600 entire democratic party right now. By the way, that's how I know that it's morally right.

00:38:38.940 You have the entire democratic party right now, basically covering for the open

00:38:44.620 anti-Semitism of Rashida Tlaib and Ilhan Omar, who spread blood libel. When they say that Israel

00:38:48.260 is targeting Palestinian children, that is just an abject lie. Israel has been participating in

00:38:52.520 those pinpointed attacks of any military I have ever seen, including the United States military.

00:38:56.540 They're dropping knock bombs.

00:38:58.640 Rashida Tlaib is saying this fight is not just in Israel. It is the fight against,

00:39:02.860 for all minorities everywhere.

00:39:04.600 Which, by the way, is why you're seeing Palestinian activists go to Jewish areas in the United States

00:39:08.480 and protest there. If you thought this was a foreign policy problem, why are the protests not

00:39:12.340 happening in Washington, D.C.? Why aren't they happening next to the Congressional?

00:39:14.880 They're not. They're going down to a restaurant a quarter mile away.

00:39:18.980 They're going down to Brooklyn, and they're beating Jews in the streets.

00:39:21.500 Or they're going down to areas in Miami where there are lots of Jews who live there.

00:39:25.100 They're driving through in trucks with Palestinian flags on the back. Are those the policymakers?

00:39:28.500 No. I'm sorry. That's the Nazis marching through Skokie.

00:39:31.000 But, you know, Jeremy makes a great point here. I can't believe I said that. I need to wash my

00:39:35.120 mouth out with soap. Jeremy makes a great point, which is, if you are not an expert on the past,

00:39:40.480 I don't know, what, 3,000, 4,000 years of this conflict in the Middle East,

00:39:44.420 there is a rule of thumb. I know we're not supposed to appeal to authority,

00:39:47.440 but when I see AOC and Ilhan Omar and Rashida Tlaib and Bernie Sanders and the New York Times

00:39:53.360 and CNN and just all of them lined up on one side of the issue, I'm going to have to go in on the

00:39:59.240 other side. And maybe my opinion will change as I learn more, but I think it's a good rule of thumb.

00:40:02.900 That's a very reasonable judgment.

00:40:04.280 Given, I mean, really, especially Rashida Tlaib, these people are really vile, evil.

00:40:10.240 I don't think we can emphasize that enough. It's not a political disagreement.

00:40:12.660 The New York Times is too, by the way. The New York Times was supported Castro,

00:40:15.120 which supported Che, which supported Stalin. Like, yes, these are bad people. And when they're

00:40:21.200 all uniformly agreeing, don't wear your mask. The New York Times printed a graphic today that was

00:40:28.880 such an abject lie. It was a graphic depicting the state of Israel, but it said Palestine across.

00:40:33.480 And then it showed how Palestine was shrinking. Okay. This graphic is so bad. In 2015, when MSNBC

00:40:38.620 ran it, they had to issue an overt apology saying that this was an anti-factual map. The New York

00:40:43.440 Times ran it today. I mean, like the media are so all in on us. It's insane.

00:40:46.780 But other than the moral and other than the political, I also do want to address this sort

00:40:51.260 of idea on the right that America first means that we're somehow completely disengaged in the world.

00:40:57.260 And it doesn't. We have alliances. We give aid because we believe, maybe sometimes inaccurately,

00:41:04.780 but because we believe it is in our interest to do so. We want to contain openly hostile powers like

00:41:13.360 Iran and North Korea. We want to constrain rival powers like Russia and China. We want to incent

00:41:21.060 economic activity around the globe, which is in America's interest. Those are the reasons. Now,

00:41:26.380 you may disagree with specific examples of us doing this. I disagree with specific examples of

00:41:31.260 us doing this. But the idea that we're just a piggy bank charity out there giving people money because

00:41:35.880 it's great. When you hear people say, we're not the world's policemen, they're usually denying that

00:41:40.120 there's any American interest that exists outside of our own borders. I think that that's a complete

00:41:45.380 mistake. That's never been true. We have interests and you have to pursue your national interest in a

00:41:50.860 very messy world with shifting alliances, with shifting realities on the ground. Again, I'm not

00:41:55.900 saying that any individual conversation is out of line. Israel itself, a nation that I am very fond of,

00:42:03.740 has its own national interests. And Israel's national interests will not always in every-

00:42:07.980 Sometimes it's in conflict with America.

00:42:09.480 That's right. Align with America's interests. Being allies doesn't mean that we're in

00:42:12.500 some sort of perfectly symbiotic relationship.

00:42:15.520 Isn't there a problem with the foreign aid thing? And I agree, situationally, we have allies and we

00:42:21.560 should support them in situations. My issue with foreign aid as a concept, no matter what country

00:42:26.320 we're talking about, is that this is American taxpayer money you're taking from American families.

00:42:32.920 Yeah.

00:42:33.380 And you're giving it to a foreign government. And those American families have absolutely

00:42:36.480 no say over what happens with the money. They do not directly benefit from it anyway. And they also

00:42:41.460 don't know what happens. The American family sitting around their dinner table,

00:42:45.480 that money comes from them. It goes to the government.

00:42:46.560 First of all, this is true of almost all taxes, that you don't get a direct say

00:42:51.020 what happens with the money. And you don't really know what happens with most of it. I don't agree

00:42:55.200 that you don't get a direct benefit from some foreign aid. You don't get a direct benefit from

00:43:01.200 some domestic spending. There's a lot of domestic spending that they take your tax money and you get

00:43:05.060 no direct benefit. Some of it's in contravention of your interest. But there is an interest in

00:43:12.200 spreading America's influence around the world. So one thing that has given us the wonders of

00:43:17.380 America's 20th, the American century, the 20th century, is that America essentially controls the

00:43:22.400 waterways of the entire earth. And that's a remarkable thing that exists and has allowed us

00:43:27.140 to have huge advances in technology, huge economic advances. You have that in part because of an

00:43:35.360 expression of America's military might and in part an expression of America's economic might

00:43:39.320 and in part because America has crowded out rivals who would break parts of that off and keep us from

00:43:45.360 being able to access it if they could. And a lot of Americans, listen, sometimes you just give

00:43:49.580 charity. There's an earthquake in some country and we decide we want to help them out. A lot of our aid,

00:43:53.900 though, the majority of our aid, is about keeping influence in strategic places around the country

00:43:58.540 where if we don't, China will. And of course that's true. I mean, the notion in the United

00:44:03.640 States seems to be that foreign aid is a form of charity. That is certainly not the notion in China.

00:44:07.440 That's right. China does not give a crap about charity. This is not a charitable democracy.

00:44:11.520 This is a country that has used its Belt and Road program as a way to bootstrap itself into

00:44:15.260 influence in a variety of countries around the world. Russia is doing the same thing. So again,

00:44:18.920 you can make the argument that you don't care, right? That's okay. You can make that argument that you

00:44:21.960 don't care if China expands its sphere of influence or you didn't care if the Russians

00:44:25.060 do it or you didn't care even back when it was the USSR and the USSR was expanding its sphere of

00:44:28.760 influence. But that begs a further question, which is what do you think America's role in

00:44:33.040 foreign policy ought to be? If you think that America's role in foreign policy is that we stay

00:44:36.600 within our own borders and only when somebody knocks over a tower in New York do we respond and

00:44:42.120 militarize. Well, that is one view of foreign policy. I think that it's a very short-sighted view of

00:44:46.000 foreign policy and I think that it leads to a much more difficult world for the United States to

00:44:51.120 navigate with a lot fewer allies available for us to fight back against some of the worst people on

00:44:54.900 earth. But what exactly do people think is the fundamental role of American foreign policy?

00:45:00.480 I guess with foreign aid, I would say, I think again, going back to American families that have

00:45:05.940 to, this is, this isn't, you know, this money is coming from people, from us. I think you should be

00:45:11.000 able to give a really specific answer. Like we're going to take this money, we're going to give it to

00:45:15.560 this government for a specific reason. I think, I think the families are taking the money from,

00:45:20.080 have a, have a, have a right to know specifically what is this money going to? And I'm not saying

00:45:24.640 there could never be a good reason, but you should be able to give a specific reason. And I think

00:45:27.720 when you, when, when you are giving billions and billions every single year to countries across the

00:45:31.520 world, and the answer is American influence, uh, that's just not quite specific enough.

00:45:37.860 Yeah. Um, but I would, I would only argue that foreign aid is a very small part of the budget

00:45:42.740 and that most of what we steal people's monies for and do in contravention of their interests

00:45:47.760 actually happens domestically. And what bothers me about this sort of America for sure is that

00:45:51.900 quite often they say, we don't need to be given our money overseas. We need to be taking care of

00:45:55.440 our own right here at home. And I go, no, for God's sake, give all the money overseas rather

00:46:00.320 than continuing to prop up huge socialist spending programs at home that actually do take away my

00:46:05.880 freedom far more than just not only take away my money, but also constrain my freedom. We'll talk a

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00:47:36.840 right. We got our own promo code backstage. You know what strikes me about this at the heart of

00:47:43.520 kind of this disagreement over projecting American strength abroad. And I don't just mean a disagreement

00:47:48.080 among us. I mean, among the American people and among the right too. I understand one argument,

00:47:53.620 one sort of more novel argument against projecting American strength abroad, which is some years ago,

00:47:59.300 there was broad consensus on what it meant to project American strength abroad. The American

00:48:04.200 truth, justice, and the American way, the American cultural exportation around the world, right?

00:48:08.540 There was, we were broadly in agreement and in support of that, but that largely Christian, you know,

00:48:14.580 unique, but American kind of version of that has fallen away into this broad, global, liberal empire.

00:48:21.540 And so I think there are a lot of people who say, why I'm all for projecting American influence abroad,

00:48:26.240 but I don't want to promote transgenderism in Namibia. That's not the, where I want my tax dollars

00:48:31.720 going. But I also don't want to find Black Lives Matter flags at American embassies.

00:48:35.680 Exactly. Exactly. I think none of us think we shouldn't have embassies.

00:48:38.540 Right. But that is the influence that's being pushed. The fact that our government is out of

00:48:41.600 control, but it's unconstrained, that it is in no way limited, that it believes that what it needs

00:48:45.680 to be promulgating around the globe and at home is socialism and leftism and critical race theory.

00:48:51.560 And this incredibly anti-Christian modernist worldview. I agree that all of that needs to

00:48:58.240 be fought. And to the extent that you say that we need more transparency and how the government

00:49:01.340 spends our money, I agree with that. But there's an attitude on the right. That's what I'm kind of

00:49:06.400 pushing back again. Well, the, the, the question is to, you know, you mentioned when we say that

00:49:10.520 what we're getting in return is American influence, that's been true of all American foreign

00:49:15.120 interventions ever. Yes. I mean, true of like including wars, right? What were, what were the American

00:49:20.000 interests that were threatened when the Soviets threatened to take over Berlin? And we participate

00:49:24.260 in the Berlin airlift, which was an act of foreign aid, right? I mean, we actually flew supplies into

00:49:28.300 Berlin to maintain Berlin as a free city. Why exactly did we bother doing that? And Soviets could

00:49:33.100 have just taken Berlin. We didn't rule it. Didn't have anything to do with us. It was very far away

00:49:36.880 across the water. Right. And that's been true of literally all projections of American power ever.

00:49:41.320 So the answer was always that American influence is important because we understand that the,

00:49:45.300 the opposite of American influence is not a vacuum. The opposite of American influence is very

00:49:49.800 bad people increasing their own sphere of influence and then using that sphere of influence in order

00:49:54.000 to threaten true American interests. So to take an example in the Middle East, for example, if Israel

00:49:57.520 were to disappear tomorrow, what that would mean is that authoritarian states would take probably

00:50:01.180 they'd threaten control of the Suez Canal. We saw the Suez Canal blocked recently by a giant shipping

00:50:06.220 container, right? And that giant ship basically cut off all world trade for a significant period of

00:50:11.420 time. Like the gas lines in the United States. Right. And if the, if the straits of Hormuz are cut off,

00:50:17.500 oil supplies falter, if the South China Sea falls to complete Chinese domination, then the shipping

00:50:21.980 of products. But these are specific, you're giving specific cases of this is what America needs to do

00:50:26.780 in this particular situation for this reason, which is great. And, you know, I'm sure I could pull up on

00:50:32.640 my phone a list of all the countries we're giving aid to, how much money we're giving. And I, and I

00:50:37.740 suspect that if I were to do that, I'm going to find dozens that equals billions of dollars where

00:50:43.380 there's not going to be necessarily that really specific answer. So that's my question is whether

00:50:48.140 you're in disagreement with the general concept. That's why I said what I'm pushing, what I'm

00:50:51.580 pushing back again is an attitude, not specifics. So you're suggesting that government should be

00:50:55.580 more efficient, that we should be more strategic with what we do and don't do. Of course, I agree.

00:50:59.740 Just the idea, the idea of the government, of our government sort of in perpetuity, having all

00:51:04.900 these other, other governments on the dole. Um, that's what, that's what I'm pushing.

00:51:08.840 Well, I mean, Japan's been on the dole for what, some 80 years with American military

00:51:12.780 presence in Japan. And thank God for that. Yeah. I mean, some of them need to be on the

00:51:15.900 dole for a while. You know, I'm kind of amazed. I say something controversial because I only come

00:51:21.760 to the show to try and give Ben a heart attack before I have one. But I'm kind of amazed we could

00:51:28.600 have this entire conversation about Israel without really talking about the Jews, without actually

00:51:33.120 talking about the fact that the Jews are special. This is the thing that anti-Semites get right.

00:51:36.660 They get right. They think the Jews are special because they're evil. That's crap. But, but

00:51:41.060 the Jews are special. They're special in our history. They're special in our religion. Matt

00:51:44.400 was talking about the evangelicals. I think the evangelicals have a point. You know, this,

00:51:48.560 these are the people with, with the Athenian Greeks who basically inform everything we think

00:51:53.940 and believe. And there are no Athenian Greeks. There are, you know, the Athenian Greeks are

00:51:57.560 gone, but the Jews aren't. And that's a really important fact. When one of the things the

00:52:01.840 left is really objecting to is that this is a Jewish state and that offends them because

00:52:06.080 it is racially specific, but the world has proved that it can't tolerate Jews unless

00:52:10.980 they have a state. If Jews don't have a state, they will, they'll be killed and chased from

00:52:14.180 pillar to post. And so it seems important to me that someone stands up and says, you know,

00:52:20.140 these, these people are important because they're us. They're saying there's some way

00:52:23.960 the source of who we are and we need to defend them and their values. One of the amazing things

00:52:28.660 that happens when you're in Israel, and you've been in Israel a lot more than I have,

00:52:31.080 probably not. I've only been three times actually. Okay. Well, I was there and I opened the newspaper

00:52:35.300 and read the editorials and the, the fineness of the ethical and moral conversation that was going

00:52:43.340 on in their newspapers made me embarrassed for our newspapers. I mean, we have a good op-ed section in

00:52:48.520 the wall street journal that James Toronto should win the Pulitzer prize. There's nothing like the

00:52:54.140 ordinary editorials that are going on in an Israeli newspaper because they're Jews and they say it in the

00:52:59.980 things. Well, wait, you know, other countries could do that, but we can't because we're Jews.

00:53:04.380 I mean, what they did in this war is something that Israel has, has long-term Tahrir Haneshek,

00:53:08.100 right? Which means purity of arms. They literally write it into the military code. This, this attempt

00:53:11.920 to prevent civilian casualties. Again, I point out the fact that everybody's saying, look at that

00:53:16.540 wild disproportion between the number of people who died in Gaza and the number of people who died in

00:53:19.620 Israel. Yes. Israel fired massive ordinance into Gaza and only killed 200 odd people after experiencing

00:53:25.320 4,500 rockets fired at it. But there's something else there. There is an underlying idea. And this

00:53:29.820 has taken root mostly on the left, but a little bit on the right. And that is the idea that the

00:53:35.000 world would be a more peaceful place if Israel ceased to exist. And you can see this in the way

00:53:39.240 that so many people on the radical left actually talk about the state of Israel, right? The idea is

00:53:42.720 that because first it was Israel has to have a two-state solution because if there's no two-state

00:53:46.920 solution, we can't solve all the problems in the Middle East. Now you're starting to see people

00:53:49.640 openly say, well, maybe there shouldn't be a two-state solution. Maybe there should be a one-state

00:53:52.800 solution in which the Israeli Jewish demographic majority just disappears. And it just becomes a complete

00:53:58.440 one-state, which of course means that the Jewish state ends. Well, the notion that seems to be

00:54:03.840 out there is that anti-Semitism, and this is being really pushed by the media right now,

00:54:07.700 anti-Semitism, right? And this headline right here is it, right? From Michelle Goldberg,

00:54:10.900 attacks on Jews over Israel are a gift to the right. Yeah. The basic idea here. We bounced on it.

00:54:15.420 Right. The basic idea here is that when it comes to anti-Semitism, that anti-Semitism is an

00:54:22.820 outgrowth of anti-Zionism, right? Or rather, of Zionism. If it were not for the state of

00:54:27.620 Israel, anti-Semitism would just disappear, which ignores all of human history between 136 CE and

00:54:31.860 1948, right? There's a lot of intervening history right there. The same people who are beating Jews

00:54:35.860 on the streets with poles in Brooklyn are shouting at them that they're only beating them because of

00:54:39.380 Israel. And it's like a random Jew in Brooklyn. Yeah. I have a feeling that's not true. I have a

00:54:43.700 feeling that if Israel didn't exist, there would be a lot more Jews who are getting beat.

00:54:46.800 When Jesus said, you are the salt of the earth, you're the light of the world, he was talking to

00:54:51.840 the Jews. He was talking specifically to the Jews. God doesn't break those covenants. That's still

00:54:56.660 in place. And when we look at these people, we're seeing where our ethics come from, where our ideas

00:55:01.340 come from. One of the great evidences, by the way, for the truth of the Bible, to me, for the truth of

00:55:06.400 the New Testament. Sorry, Ben. You're complimenting my folks, so continue. The New Testament posits

00:55:12.160 that in the future there will be an Israel. And Christians believe that. They believe that the

00:55:19.760 Bible is true. It's very hard for us. I'm fascinated by this notion that it's almost impossible for us

00:55:24.940 to ever separate ourselves from this moment. And that connection to this moment really blinds us

00:55:31.660 to the experiences of almost all humans across all time. It's a fun thing. Maybe we'll talk about it on

00:55:36.100 this or a future episode more generally. But specific to the topic at hand, it's easy for us to

00:55:41.760 imagine being Christians and thinking that in the future there's Israel. Because there's Israel.

00:55:47.780 But for almost 2,000 years, every single Christian who ever lived, like the vast majority of time

00:55:53.660 that there has been Christianity, Christians had to believe in that future. And there was no Israel.

00:55:59.920 You talk about the Athenian Greeks. The reemergence of Israel in the land that God gave to the Jews

00:56:08.660 is a quirk of human history that has absolutely no corollary. Almost 2,800 years later, no people has

00:56:18.820 ever been scattered from their home, continued to exist, and then come back into possession of that

00:56:23.580 home across 1,800 years.

00:56:25.560 Odd, what?

00:56:28.260 Yeah. Another strange thing about the Jews, if I may, is, you know, one of the criticisms is...

00:56:34.660 That they control the weather.

00:56:35.620 That they control the weather, for goodness sake.

00:56:37.240 That was weird.

00:56:37.860 Top three weird things about the Jews.

00:56:39.320 Yeah, I would say these are...

00:56:40.780 Space losers.

00:56:41.420 Space losers. Very peculiar.

00:56:42.280 But, you know, one of the arguments against the United States support of Israel is, you know,

00:56:48.120 I don't even think it's particularly... I hate to call it an argument, but one of the impulses

00:56:52.020 is to say, well, it's just Jews, you know, who are in positions of power in the government. And

00:56:55.720 there are plenty of Jews in positions of power in the government, and they're really behind this

00:56:58.600 whole thing. But then I couldn't help but notice, Ben, when you were reading that headline,

00:57:01.800 it was by... What was that name? Michelle Goldberg.

00:57:03.780 It's not an Italian name. I mean, it's not an Irish name. It's in the New York Times.

00:57:07.340 Bernie is wildly anti-Israelian.

00:57:09.200 Bernie. So, you know, it's a bit strange, isn't it, that so many American Jews seem very anti-Israel.

00:57:14.180 I will say, you bring up the evangelical support of Israel, and I'm...

00:57:18.020 Drew and I are the two potentially evangelicals. I don't think either one of us is truly in the

00:57:23.340 category of evangelicals, but the closest evangelicals on the panel. I don't support

00:57:28.140 Israel because of a belief that the Bible commands me to support Israel. That's not part

00:57:34.280 of my... I do think that I have a kinship with the people of the Bible, with the Jews.

00:57:42.180 I think that we share common history. We share common ethics. Not the exact same ethics. The

00:57:48.560 Judeo-Christian worldview, that term makes people mad because Christians and Jews believe very

00:57:53.540 different things and places. Yes, of course. Saying Judeo-Christian doesn't mean I believe

00:57:57.940 Jews and Christians believe the same things. It means I believe that there's a foundational

00:58:02.200 framework that we share.

00:58:05.180 Right, book one.

00:58:06.300 Book one, we share, that takes on distinct characteristics. But all of that to say,

00:58:10.740 the existence of the state of Israel today actually convinces me that it's not up to my

00:58:18.100 support. God doesn't need me to support Israel. If he decides there's going to be an Israel,

00:58:22.080 there's going to be an Israel. And as an American, what I'm more concerned with is who should I

00:58:27.640 support? With whom do I share values? God doesn't need much from me. He's God. He's the uppercase

00:58:33.500 GK. I am but a lowly lowercase GK.

00:58:38.060 And so my support of Israel is premised completely on that shared set of values, completely on a shared

00:58:44.800 set of interests. I believe national interests and I believe ideological interests. That really

00:58:50.980 is the limit of my... So you don't feel biblically compelled?

00:58:54.540 I do. I feel biblically compelled both through commands from the Bible and through the values

00:59:04.540 that I've derived from the Bible or the beliefs that I've derived from the Bible to support in a

00:59:12.120 broad sense the Jewish people. But that doesn't mean if the Jewish people are wrong that God wants

00:59:17.300 me to say that they're right. So as an example, if Israel had gone into the Gaza Strip and started

00:59:24.360 rounding up people like the Germans did in the 30s and putting them into ghettos or rounding them

00:59:29.740 up like they did in the 40s and putting them onto boxcars, I would tell you that this was wrong. I

00:59:34.380 wouldn't feel like, I don't know, yeah, they're indiscriminately killing Palestinians, but God does

00:59:39.340 say be nice to the Jews. Of course I wouldn't take that position.

00:59:41.780 But nobody ever said that Germany should cease to exist. I mean, this is the thing.

00:59:46.400 The only country on earth, literally the only country on earth that has to argue for its right

00:59:50.700 to exist is the Jewish state. And that is biblical. It's also worth noting here that when we talk

00:59:56.000 about foreign aid to Israel, particularly in this context, a lot of that foreign aid is going for

00:59:59.480 the Iron Dome. If you are a believer that Palestinians should not be mistreated, you should thank God

01:00:05.420 every single day for the Iron Dome. Because if it were not for the Iron Dome, Israel would have

01:00:09.020 eviscerated the place. And everybody understands this. The fact that 90% of the rockets being shot from

01:00:13.880 the Gaza Strip were shot down by this miraculous technology that is located in all of the population

01:00:17.940 centers of Israel, that you can fire for, I mean, the simple statement that 4,500 rockets were fired

01:00:22.220 at civilian areas and 12 people died is a demonstration of just how effective the system

01:00:26.260 is. If those rockets had all hit in civilian areas and killed hundreds or thousands of Jews,

01:00:30.360 Israel would have no Hamas. Hamas would not exist anymore.

01:00:32.240 And also the idea that, well, if you get rid of Israel, then the Middle East is a peaceful place

01:00:37.320 is of course absurd because first of all, these Islamic groups are killing each other anyway.

01:00:41.700 They're going to continue to do it. I think with the, with the biblical thing,

01:00:44.720 it doesn't bother me, you know, evangelicals that feel spiritually inclined to take this position

01:00:50.080 doesn't bother me at all. Um, I, I do think my theological difference with them, which doesn't

01:00:55.280 sound like this is your position, but the idea that our salvation is still somehow tied to a

01:01:00.200 particular geographic place or even worse to it, to a government. Um, you know, that, that to me is

01:01:06.520 a problem because we, yeah, we know that now it's, that that's the whole idea. It's universal.

01:01:10.980 Go preach to all nations.

01:01:11.960 Salvation has existed from a Christian point of view for the past 2000 years. And for 1800 of

01:01:16.960 those, there was no, uh, state of Israel and there was no particular government. And so it just wouldn't,

01:01:22.020 I almost reject any theological notion that requires you to live in a specific time in a

01:01:27.500 specific place in order for it to be true. And so tying salvation to support of Israel, I would

01:01:32.880 just see as another one of those.

01:01:34.080 But you know, I, I do wonder too, if some of the recent uptick against Israel or let's

01:01:41.080 rephrase it in defense of say the Palestinian Arabs is actually caused by radical leftism

01:01:46.480 because for much of my young life, right? Certainly since nine 11, there has been this sense on the

01:01:51.980 right that the Muslims are out to get us. You know, they've been, and there have been a Muslim

01:01:56.240 incursions on Western Christendom for roughly, Oh, 14 centuries now. So obviously there's historical

01:02:01.280 precedent for this, but I think a lot of people are looking now and they're saying, well, you know,

01:02:05.480 I don't think I exactly want to live under Sharia, you know, look, I don't want to live under Hamas

01:02:09.440 or anything like that. But there is a sense among not these insane radical extremist Muslims,

01:02:15.300 but among Muslims more broadly that at least we're, we can talk about God, right? We talk about how

01:02:22.340 Judaism, you know, sort of writes the first book and then, uh, then, uh, you get Christianity.

01:02:27.700 And from that, there is this derivation. Let's not forget Islam is the product of an encounter

01:02:32.840 between Muhammad and a, and a heretical Christian monk. And this is not even disputed by Muslims.

01:02:36.860 And so there is obviously a lot of commonality there. And when you look at the radical left,

01:02:41.100 which says God doesn't exist, boys can really become girls. We need to kill the babies. We need

01:02:45.420 to do this all for freedom or something. And then you look over at the Muslim world, which has

01:02:50.020 different answers than we do, but they still recognize that God exists, that there is a moral order,

01:02:54.000 these sorts of things. I think that might explain a little bit of the rapprochement you've seen in

01:02:58.220 the last four or five years. I completely agree with that. I think there's more connection between

01:03:01.840 the transgender mania and the hatred of Jews than anything else. Absolutely.

01:03:07.200 Yes. Yeah, really. Well, I mean, one of the things- Today.

01:03:10.340 Yeah, today. It's sort of like, you know, Jesus says, I've told you, I asked this before that Jesus

01:03:14.440 says, they'll hate you for my namesake. And anytime I meet some Christian and people are mad at them,

01:03:18.820 they always say, well, you know, the Bible told us that they'd hate us for his namesake. And I said,

01:03:22.220 no, no, no. They hate you because you're an asshole. They would hate you for his namesake

01:03:27.580 if it ever came down to you. And it's the same with the Jews today. But yes, today they hate the

01:03:34.940 Jews because of leftism. I agree with that. But they've always hated them for something.

01:03:39.400 I honestly think that the most important point was actually the one that Jeremy made at the very

01:03:42.620 beginning, which is that most of the conversation around this is not circulated around what Hamas

01:03:48.360 believes. Because if you had that conversation, then this moral conversation would be over,

01:03:51.160 right? Hamas is a terrorist group that believes in genocide. So end of story. What it has

01:03:54.600 circulated instead around is a particular leftist point of view, which is that power is inherently

01:03:58.680 evil and corrupt and that the powerless are inherently victimized. Yes. And so you see BLM

01:04:03.920 tweeting out, I mean, and they said this in the BLM manifesto that they were, they were in favor

01:04:07.520 of Palestine. You thought to yourself, what in the world did these two things have to do with each

01:04:11.400 other? But you see Rashida Tlaib saying it's the same conflict that black people are having with

01:04:15.700 police in the United States and Palestinians are having with Jews in the Middle East. And it's just a

01:04:20.520 matter of power imbalances. What this really is about for the left and the reason why they are

01:04:24.440 covering for anti-Semitism at this point is because they share a lot of the basic principles

01:04:27.900 of anti-Semitism. A lot of the left's point of view, the hard left's point of view is a conspiracy

01:04:32.380 theory about how power works. The intersectional hierarchy, all the systems of power are geared

01:04:37.100 toward the most powerful. And so therefore, if you are powerful, it is because you sit at the top

01:04:40.500 of the hierarchy in order to achieve equity. These hierarchies must be torn down. Now you look to the

01:04:44.420 Middle East and you say, okay, look, here's this very powerful, small, tiny Jewish state. And then you see

01:04:49.180 these Palestinians and they're living in privation and horror. And you don't look to, okay, maybe

01:04:52.700 they're doing that because terrorist groups run them. Instead, it becomes, well, the people who

01:04:56.140 are really doing well over there, they must be the ones who are responsible for all of this. And then

01:05:00.380 you obfuscate in order to, in order to conceal basically what's going on. They'll say things like,

01:05:05.440 well, it really is a color thing. First of all, that demonstrates such unbelievable ignorance of what

01:05:09.140 Jews are, that it's almost beyond the pale. Number one, Jews are not white. Number two, the Jews in

01:05:13.980 Israel are super not white. Like if you've ever been to Israel, over 50% of the population is from

01:05:18.060 Arabic countries, right? Like my wife's family, they're entirely from Morocco, right? All of

01:05:22.720 their ethnic derivation. They participate in whiteness. Yeah, exactly. Whatever that means,

01:05:28.180 that's what you're doing. They participate in whiteness. And what the left means by they

01:05:31.260 participate in whiteness is they are successful under the current system and the current system

01:05:34.760 needs to fall. And so when they, and so this is why you see. I don't know, Ben, I wish it was as

01:05:39.740 rational as this. If all they were doing, trying to do is attack power centers, I'd almost have some

01:05:43.780 sympathy for them. But I think they have overturned the moral order. They're just going up the line

01:05:49.080 to anybody who has morals. Yeah. So we've talked about China. We've talked about Israel. You may

01:05:55.640 be wondering, when are we going to talk about America around here? We're not, but we're going

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01:08:14.280 we're going to go, my friends, out there somewhere. Obviously, earth-shaking news coming out of the

01:08:24.800 Pentagon on 60 Minutes this last week. Matt's been covering the story since long before 60 Minutes

01:08:29.060 got in on the action. There are unidentified aerial phenomena being observed by United States military

01:08:35.880 aircraft. Apparently, it's happening with some frequency. Our former Senate Majority Leader,

01:08:43.440 the Right Honorable Harry Reid, and that's how you know it's true. The Right Honorable Harry Reid

01:08:48.720 became very concerned about this, and because of him and others in the government, a task force was

01:08:54.560 formed within the Pentagon to track these unidentified aerial phenomena, or as you may

01:08:59.120 know them, unidentified flying objects. Object. And now we're starting to see a lot of gun cam

01:09:07.720 footage, a lot of sensor footage, a lot of radar footage coming from military aircraft, primarily

01:09:13.060 F-18s, things that are flying over the water. And the question I have for the panel is,

01:09:17.520 look at that, come on. Are we alone, or are geese just getting super fast?

01:09:24.400 Dining in my head fast.

01:09:26.940 Can I just, just to open this up, I believe I'm the only alien-believing American on the

01:09:31.820 panel tonight.

01:09:33.000 Okay, so you haven't committed yet, but I am the representative of our people and culture.

01:09:37.800 And I do feel marginalized and, frankly, unsafe sometimes in this workspace.

01:09:41.940 Anyways. But, so, just, I think there are two things here. Okay, first of all, obviously

01:09:49.040 we don't know exactly what that is, or what those things are. And in order to come up with

01:09:54.100 any kind of, like, probability that it's aliens, we need some background information that we

01:09:57.180 don't have. Like, for example, we need to know, are there aliens in the universe? And how

01:10:04.520 many such civilizations are there? And where are they? And what sort of technology do they

01:10:08.240 have? We don't know any of that. But what that tells us, first of all, is that you can't

01:10:12.480 just rule out, you can't basically rule out as a possibility, or even as a plausible possibility,

01:10:16.720 that those are aliens. Because for all we know, now, if we're the only intelligent civilization,

01:10:20.560 even just in the galaxy, then that's definitely not an alien. But if there's intelligent

01:10:25.020 civilizations in all of our surrounding solar systems, let's just say, or in some of the

01:10:29.260 nearest ones, then the probability goes up. So we don't know that at all. So we kind of

01:10:33.500 have to put that to the side. And then we just look at that. And now we have to say to

01:10:37.160 ourselves, what the hell is that? Yeah, but we've been hearing these UFO reports for a

01:10:41.900 long time, for decades, really. And I think the objection that a lot of people had, including

01:10:46.200 myself, is that we said, well, if there were actual UFOs, like alien spaceships in the sky,

01:10:52.720 then we should get better evidence than, why is it always a farmer in Kansas that sees them?

01:10:56.660 It's kind of like Bigfoot. You know, the only person that sees Bigfoot is someone who has

01:11:00.020 a camera from like the battlefield reporter at Antietam had. So why is that always the case

01:11:05.920 with aliens? And that was always my objection until in the last few years, we're getting

01:11:10.660 trained observers up close. There were four Navy pilots who observed one of these things

01:11:15.460 up close, four of them. For five minutes, they watched it. And corroborating their testimony,

01:11:21.440 we have radar data and video of that one thing, this tic-tac-shaped thing that was flying around,

01:11:26.580 breaking the speed of sound and doing things that seem physically impossible.

01:11:30.240 So that's exactly the kind of evidence that for decades we said, well, if they were really UFOs,

01:11:34.700 we should have that evidence. Now it's here. And so I feel like that should at least get us to

01:11:40.060 reassess our original. Mickey, I hate to pour water on this. Okay. I've got a couple other theories

01:11:46.160 beyond the Martians. One is that this is foreign technology. Now you say we've never seen technology

01:11:54.440 like this. Right. I said it's foreign technology. Now there's another possibility. Maybe it's our own

01:11:59.900 technology. But Michael, you say, the government says that it's not. I know the government would

01:12:05.120 never lie to you. I know the government's always totally above board, but maybe it is our technology.

01:12:09.880 Maybe this whole PR campaign is a bit of a fake out to our adversaries. But let's say it's not. Let's

01:12:14.160 say we have no clue what that is up in the sky. Do the aliens exist on other planets? Is there

01:12:23.020 intelligent life? I'll go even further. Is there life at all on other planets? The one argument that

01:12:27.640 drives me the craziest is this one. They say, Michael, it's just, it's just probable. It's just

01:12:33.420 probability. The universe is a gazillion light years across. It's so big. So it's just probable

01:12:39.640 that there is life somewhere else. And I say, you know, to ascertain a probability, you need to know

01:12:45.280 literally anything about the subject that you're talking about. And when it comes to the origins of

01:12:50.540 life, there are a few, there are actually, I don't know, six or seven main hypotheses. There is the

01:12:55.060 Miller-Uray hypothesis of the primordial soup. This was in the fifties, but the experiment didn't

01:12:59.320 work out that well because they didn't have the right chemicals. Then there was the clay hypothesis

01:13:02.720 that there are actually these crystal structures within clay that could form the basis of sort of

01:13:06.660 organizing genetic information. But there's really no way to describe how it goes from that to

01:13:11.940 nucleotides, right? So that kind of fell apart. Then there's the idea that it was actually formed in

01:13:15.880 the sub-oceanic vents. Then there's an idea that it was actually the opposite. It was filmed,

01:13:21.660 formed underneath frozen oceans. Then there's this idea that it came here from Martians,

01:13:25.900 you know, from outer space, which only pushes the question off and says, well,

01:13:29.440 how the hell did life form there? My point is in modernity, we're told we're not, we're not special.

01:13:35.860 We not look, there's probably a zillion other of us. And my only point is maybe that's true,

01:13:40.440 but we have no evidence. We have no reason to believe that we're not special.

01:13:44.100 This is my whole, my whole approach to this is, you know, the philosopher Wittgenstein,

01:13:48.340 who may have been an alien, said of that which we cannot speak, we must remain silent. And the

01:13:52.620 philosopher Clavin says, that which we don't know, we don't know. And this is the thing,

01:13:57.340 you know, the arguments against the aliens always take the form of, well, would aliens do this?

01:14:02.940 Would aliens do that? How the hell do we know? First of all, if anybody who has the technology to

01:14:07.560 send actual objects across the galaxy to us is in another sphere than we are, the things that they do

01:14:14.540 may seem illogical to us and may be logical, but even more so, they may be stupid. They may be

01:14:19.400 incredibly technological proficient and stupid. We, we can build phones. We can, we can build,

01:14:25.760 we can build phones where we can talk across the, the, uh, the planet. And we still elected AOC to

01:14:32.100 Congress. You know, you can do incredibly stupid things. So they may be coming down here with these

01:14:36.800 tic-tacs from outer space and building little rock statues. And you say, well, would they do that?

01:14:41.580 How the hell do we know? So all I would say is we now have information, which I, this is where I

01:14:46.700 agree with Walsh. We now have information, which we said nobody had, and all the people who were

01:14:52.300 conspiracy theories and it was zone, whatever it was, 50, what is it? Two in Nevada?

01:14:56.740 Zone, no, area 51.

01:14:58.200 Area 51. You know, we now have these pictures of things that are really interesting, really different,

01:15:04.580 worth stopping for a minute and saying, gee, what is that? And the point you make is actually

01:15:10.500 really important. We don't know how life began. We don't know whether we are in fact

01:15:15.260 the special thing that happened on this one planet, or if this is something that would happen on any

01:15:20.040 planet, uh, uh, near, you know, equally distant from a star. I read your piece that you wrote,

01:15:25.180 which I found incredibly offensive and hateful, uh, where you said there's no, there's no reason

01:15:30.800 to believe that aliens exist, right? That's the headline. But you could easily flip that around

01:15:35.040 and say there's absolutely no reason to believe they don't exist. When you, when you live in a universe

01:15:38.620 with trillions and trillions and trillions of planets. And we have seen, we have visited

01:15:44.560 none of them and we've sent, we've sent probes to a few, but we've, we've actually visited none of

01:15:48.660 them to sit here. And, and it seems to me the problem, it is a probability thing.

01:15:53.220 Well, this is my problem. My issue. It's like walking in to me, it's like walking into a,

01:15:59.380 to a 50 bedroom mansion and you get to the foyer and you don't see anybody there. And you say,

01:16:04.600 well, I guess the place is, it doesn't make any sense. Somebody had to build the mansion. And

01:16:08.660 that, that person who built the mansion would be a person, right? But we, and we would, we have some

01:16:13.300 idea of how the person got like, you know, someone got there, he probably took a car. I don't mean,

01:16:16.360 you look for the car. We have no clue how life, we don't have any idea. There are going to be a

01:16:22.320 lot of people in the comments. But we do know. How? Well, we, you and I, we all know how, how life

01:16:27.620 started. We don't know the exact. Man formed Adam out of clay. Right. We know God created it. I mean,

01:16:31.600 that, that, that might seem like a shortcut, but we all know that. So I actually think when you

01:16:35.720 introduce God into the equation, which of course you have, you can't take them out. Um, a lot of,

01:16:39.860 uh, believers think that this is a challenge to their faith and it just doesn't make any sense.

01:16:43.760 How can you have intelligent civilizations? Well, I, I actually think that, that when you, when you,

01:16:48.080 when you factor in God, which again, you must, it, it makes the probability higher because you,

01:16:52.520 then, then there's a purpose. There's a purpose element. Like, or there's aliens fallen.

01:16:56.680 Well, I don't know that, but there's a purpose. Mustn't they not be fallen for Christianity?

01:17:02.200 I don't know why. I don't know the answer to that, but all I know is that there's a purpose

01:17:04.800 for all these billions of galaxies. Well, here's why, because the Christian ideas that there's a

01:17:09.000 Godhead, it's Trinity, father, son, and the bond of love between the father and son, which is the

01:17:12.700 Holy Spirit. The son saves mankind by taking on human nature and dies on the cross and is resurrected

01:17:19.080 three days later, right? Ascends up into heaven, seated at the right hand of God, the father

01:17:21.880 Almighty. Is he all, is he like, is he, so he's fully human and fully God and also fully

01:17:27.500 Martian. We don't even know, we don't even know whether Martians are exactly like us or

01:17:30.820 not. I really want to, I want to, I'm trying to filibuster Ben because I know he has a good

01:17:36.380 argument. I don't want him to jump in. It's not that great. I mean, go ahead. Okay. So here's

01:17:40.640 my not that great argument. So I agree with what you are saying. And it's a burden of proof

01:17:45.500 question. Obviously is the burden of proof on the people who are trying to provide the idea

01:17:50.280 that aliens exist or is the burden of proof on the people who are saying that aliens don't

01:17:52.940 exist, but that doesn't change the balance of the evidence, which is that we have no

01:17:56.500 idea. Right. And so we were all saying the same thing. We have no idea. Right. Do aliens

01:17:59.520 exist or do aliens not exist? What I think is that the likelihood that aliens not only exist,

01:18:05.880 but have been floating around the planet in what seemed to be bizarrely bird-like shapes

01:18:11.940 and also are behaving in ways that seem to conflate with optical illusions that we have

01:18:22.040 seen before suggests to me that because human beings have a very long time. When have you

01:18:27.380 ever seen a tic-tac bird? Tell me that. And they're kind of far away. Where did that come from then,

01:18:31.900 I asked. I mean, it could be very far away. That doesn't look like amazing pixelation. It's not

01:18:38.940 like right up on it. Like, like, I don't know, but it doesn't seem to me that the most plausible

01:18:42.740 explanation for that. Four people saw the tic-tac. But this, but this, but this reminds me,

01:18:46.580 and from far away, it might look like a tic-tac. I mean, like just because things refract off surfaces

01:18:52.520 of clouds differently. Can I say, like David Blaine also isn't cutting coins out of his arm. Like,

01:18:56.660 whoa, whoa, whoa. Illusion, like the skepticism. It's illusion, Michael.

01:19:02.040 Here's my position on it. The burden of proof is on people who want to say that there are

01:19:06.040 aliens. Not on people who say that there aren't. You never, the burden of proof is never on a person

01:19:11.040 who is maintaining the status quo or is maintaining what we know. The idea, the idea of aliens is a

01:19:20.960 novel concept rooted in fiction. The fact that this is even in our minds is a possibility. When we see

01:19:26.780 something moving across that screen, the only reason we even ask ourselves, is that extraterrestrial

01:19:31.580 life? 200 years ago, that would, no one would have, you could have seen it in the sky and your

01:19:35.920 thought wouldn't have been, is that extraterrestrial life? Because that idea had not been broadly

01:19:40.460 introduced into the American psyche. We have a frame of reference now, largely programmed in us

01:19:45.740 by fiction, that causes us to see certain things and judge them according to that frame of reference.

01:19:52.880 What is the tic-tac? I don't know. What I know is that our government is testing technology

01:19:59.260 decades before we know about that technology. The first time we ever saw an F-117 stealth fighter,

01:20:05.320 it was almost 20 years old before Americans even knew that that existed. It had been not only in

01:20:10.060 existence, it had been flying around our country nonstop. There's a reason that the pilots you're

01:20:14.780 referring to keep seeing these things in restricted airspace. Why in restricted airspace? Why is that

01:20:19.760 airspace restricted? Because that's where we test things. That's where our government goes to test

01:20:23.200 things. Also, we keep trying to figure out what is the thing, but there are so many examples of

01:20:28.620 you can't paint with a broad brush. Some of it may not even exist. You may be looking at something on

01:20:33.440 one of these cameras and that something is nothing. It's not a goose. It's not a tic-tac bird that do

01:20:39.900 exist. It's not a weather balloon. It's literally a nothing because these airplanes, their sensory

01:20:46.100 mechanisms are programmatic. They're so software driven now and we're constantly updating and we're

01:20:51.540 finding that software. It could literally be tracking something that doesn't even exist because

01:20:56.260 of an update that happened to the firmware. It could be foreign governments hacking our systems

01:21:00.560 to show us things that aren't there. It could be foreign governments testing technology. I think

01:21:04.000 that's actually unlikely. I think it's far more likely there to be us testing technology. It could be

01:21:08.380 hackers in some basement in Tuscaloosa hacking our equipment. But of all those theories, the least

01:21:13.960 likely is that it is something from another planet. The reason I don't agree with it. Because we know all

01:21:18.980 those other things existing you just said. This is like ghosts. Whenever I have more than 10 people

01:21:23.480 in a room, I always ask anybody who's seen a ghost. Always, always, never fails. Somebody has seen a

01:21:28.260 ghost. Some sane, rational person has had an experience that's inexplicable. Weird dinner

01:21:32.880 question. It's not. But you do get a yes answer. Because it's been true through history. It's been true

01:21:38.500 through history. The reason we don't believe in ghosts is because we don't believe in ghosts. That

01:21:42.060 doesn't mean that the burden of proof is on somebody who does believe in ghosts. I mean, more people

01:21:47.380 have seen ghosts through history than have seen Brazil. I mean, there's plenty of reason to

01:21:54.560 believe in ghosts. You know, and I think the same thing is true here. The fiction that you're talking

01:21:58.740 about is extrapolative fiction. It's people extrapolating from life on earth to life on

01:22:03.600 other planets. That's not illogical. That's not like... Do you believe in ghosts? What? Do you believe in

01:22:07.460 ghosts? I'm actually unsure what I believe. But let's hold on. All I can say... As long as we're going

01:22:13.420 here, we're going to go full our bell here. I don't want to get off on ghosts. You can't say

01:22:16.660 that what I just said, which is that the least likely of all of those options is that it's

01:22:20.660 extraterrestrial life. You can't say that I'm wrong about that. Of course, the least likely

01:22:24.860 explanation is that it's extraterrestrial life. No, I think... Definitionally, not just by a little,

01:22:29.120 it's not 5% less likely that it's a software glitch than that it's extraterrestrial life.

01:22:33.800 It's not even 100% less likely that it's a software glitch than extraterrestrial life.

01:22:37.860 But definitionally, what I'm saying is true. Because what... I'm saying what they're

01:22:41.780 saying... No, what Noles is saying about probability is only a half-truth, right? It's true.

01:22:47.500 I only... That's all I do.

01:22:49.940 It's true. Based on what you're saying right now, it could be a time machine.

01:22:55.020 Well, and it could be... It's at least equally... I would say it's even more likely that it's a time

01:22:59.160 machine because... No, no, I don't agree with that. But it's at least as likely that it's a time machine

01:23:02.640 and it's far more likely that it's a fun spot. The thing that Noles is saying about

01:23:06.820 probability is right in the sense that we have no idea. We have no idea how to calculate the

01:23:11.940 probability. And that's why we need to know. That's what I'm saying. You can't talk about...

01:23:14.180 But there's a theory. No, this is not... No, this is not true. I'm just kidding. I'm going to...

01:23:17.540 But there's a theory under which it's probable that there's life...

01:23:20.580 This is not true. The probability of seeing something and not understanding what it is,

01:23:26.600 every human has that happen all the time. The theory that a software glitch happens in military

01:23:32.480 hardware that's being updated happens all the time. It is far more likely. And I'm saying you

01:23:39.440 can't paint with a broad brush about this. I'm not even saying there aren't aliens. I'm not saying we

01:23:43.160 didn't see an alien. If we saw an alien, it's one single instance of these things. This is another

01:23:48.600 thing. When we talk about, are they aliens? Every one of them's different. If we had 50 pilots all the

01:23:54.720 time and they were all seeing something that looked exactly the same...

01:23:57.480 Can I just say one thing? Can I just say one thing? I don't... I'm not saying the alien is

01:24:02.700 the most likely explanation. Sure. For example, there could be civilizations under the ocean and

01:24:07.260 that... You make a good point. But hold on a second. That is at least as likely or more. That's

01:24:12.620 actually more likely. The alien is not the most likely. I also don't think it's the... It's not

01:24:15.760 necessarily the least likely. We know there's life here. We have... Like you said, we have to look at each

01:24:18.520 individual case. So the Tic Tac, for example. I would say that the alien is more likely than the

01:24:23.680 seagull, okay? Because I have never seen a seagull that can go the speed of

01:24:27.460 sound and that doesn't have wings. I've never been to Atlantic City.

01:24:32.260 So I would say that... So I would put it above some other options. I do think it's not the

01:24:37.920 most likely, but it is a... It's a plausible... Here's what I would say. It's a plausible

01:24:41.340 explanation and it's more plausible... It should be judged more plausible today than we would

01:24:47.020 have 50 years ago, given that the evidence has... I don't believe there's any reason to say

01:24:49.880 that it's a plausible explanation. It is certainly because definitionally it is true that it is

01:24:54.920 possible. It is a thing that could be. But Occam's razor tells us that the vast majority... The most

01:25:02.620 likely... It is far more likely that it is something known than that it is something unknown.

01:25:08.040 But the thing about not knowing... The thing about not knowing... The thing about not knowing is that you

01:25:15.740 really don't know. Just to go back to Knowles' point about probability... No, wait. Just let's go back to

01:25:20.660 Knowles' point about probability. It is genuinely true that we don't know how life began and we don't know

01:25:26.620 how special it is on earth and any... So we have no way of calculating the probability. But if you start

01:25:31.640 with a theory that things happen physically basically the same way, then it's very probable

01:25:37.580 that there's life on other planets. It's also probable that some of it is more advanced than

01:25:41.240 ours. And it could be... Because we don't know, we literally don't know. We don't know how

01:25:46.220 probably... Well, hold on. But what is the probability... We don't know how probably... When you say...

01:25:49.140 Here's how you could tell. Yes, because we've all... Because we've all had software malfunctions and we

01:25:54.260 haven't all interacted with aliens. Correct. What is the probability that birds exist?

01:25:57.680 100%. It's 100%. What is the probability that software exists? I think they were all replaced

01:26:01.640 by drones. 100%. Right? These are... I mean, there's some people who don't believe that birds

01:26:05.620 exist. Right. Yeah. All I can say is... Let's use a less controversial one. What is the probability

01:26:10.940 that chemtrails and lizard people exist? That's 100%. That's 100%. That the frogs aren't

01:26:14.680 correct. They literally... This is the thing. Is it possible that there are aliens? I doubt. I think it is

01:26:22.440 possible. I think it is incredibly unlikely. I base this on the fact that we've picked up no radio

01:26:26.920 signals from space. I base this on the possibility that we don't have anything. The best thing that

01:26:31.980 anybody can come up with to tell me that aliens did. Aliens with so much sophistication that they

01:26:36.640 were able to traverse interstellar space is that they came here a long time ago and stacked rocks

01:26:41.280 on top of rocks in the Sahara. That's crazy. If we had opened Pharaoh's tomb and it had been

01:26:45.600 air-conditioned, I would have gone, you know. There is a real possibility that somebody else built this

01:26:51.480 besides slaves in Egypt for a thousand years ago. The very fact that we don't commonly encounter

01:26:57.300 aliens and we do commonly encounter myriad other things that this could be means that the most likely

01:27:02.660 answer to every one of these individual things is that it has... So you're saying there's a chance.

01:27:09.960 That's my whole argument, really. I'm also saying, Drew, that it's far more likely that you'll die of a heart

01:27:14.480 attack than that you'll be killed by an alien. You can't say that's not true. It's far more common that I

01:27:18.480 will have a heart attack. But the thing is, if I'm killed by an alien, then that's a thing, right?

01:27:24.060 All I'm saying is we have no way of calculating the probability. No, but you do. I mean, it's the same

01:27:28.880 question as ghosts, okay? There's no hard evidence that ghosts exist, right? Okay, so if suddenly you're a

01:27:34.180 creek and a door shut in your house, what does that even mean? What is the probability? Isn't the probability

01:27:37.400 tied to the number of alien civilizations in the universe? Don't you need to know that? No, you don't.

01:27:42.220 Well, because if there's zero, then... If it's zero, then that would be an answer, but we'll never know if it's zero.

01:27:46.980 But if there are... Above zero, any number above zero actually doesn't factor into our equation at

01:27:51.680 all. I guess I don't... It actually doesn't factor into our equation. Because when you're in a 747

01:27:57.780 and you look out the window and you see a 737 going by, is it an alien spacecraft? I mean,

01:28:03.840 it damn well could be. I once thought it was. They could have technology that makes them mimic the

01:28:08.520 look of our technology. But of course, while that is possible, it is the least likely of all the

01:28:14.780 possible... It's more likely that you didn't see anything than that the 737 that you probably

01:28:19.720 saw is an alien spacecraft. But when you say there's no hard evidence that ghosts exist,

01:28:23.480 all those people, the sane, rational people who have had really convincing experiences,

01:28:28.220 why isn't that evidence? Yeah, I think... Because lots of people have experiences of

01:28:31.520 things that don't happen all the time. That's true, but... I don't think aliens and ghosts are

01:28:34.520 related. Let me introduce you to a discussion about systemic racism, my friend. I'm not talking about aliens and ghosts

01:28:38.120 being related. I'm talking about the probability of things being true and how... What you need to calculate

01:28:43.420 this? But you're not asking what the probability that aliens exist is. You're asking me what the

01:28:47.300 probability that things being observed on gun cameras by American pilots are aliens. There's

01:28:52.120 also... That's a different... There is just on the... That requires you to answer a bunch of

01:28:55.060 probabilistic questions, by the way. No, no, it isn't because it's... Because even if there were to be

01:28:59.760 alien civilizations, you then have to multiply that by the probability that those alien civilizations

01:29:03.480 are sophisticated enough to build technological spacecraft. Multiply by the probability that millions of

01:29:09.000 years ago, literally millions of years ago, they launched these spacecraft to reach... Not necessarily.

01:29:12.780 I mean, we don't know what... Well, if you believe that the laws of physics hold, they're not

01:29:16.620 traveling faster than the speed of light. They could have a wormhole. These are only the laws of

01:29:19.400 physics we know. They could have a wormhole. That's a thing. You know, that's... Have you guys

01:29:23.220 never seen ancient aliens? I also watched Interstellar, okay? It was cool. But like, the probability that

01:29:27.140 things are traveling through wormholes to the United States... Well, I know, but to Drew's point,

01:29:30.380 to Drew's point here, there is a far greater likelihood... Unbelievable. That's how Trump got elected, guys.

01:29:35.660 There is a far greater likelihood that the ghost of Donald Trump will run in 2024. No, there is a far

01:29:39.600 greater likelihood that ghosts exist because we know people exist. We know we're fairly certain

01:29:44.640 that souls exist. We're fairly certain, at least I am, that angels and demons exist. So we're like,

01:29:50.380 we can sort of extrapolate from our own understanding of these things. But I don't know that ET exists,

01:29:55.880 goodness gracious. And that's why I think it's... And we're not talking about the probability of

01:29:59.140 whether or not life exists. You are a little bit, and I like your argument. But I'm not actually

01:30:02.760 talking about the probability that aliens exist. I'm talking about the probability that when we see

01:30:07.640 something on radar in an F-18... Yeah.

01:30:10.640 That it is more likely...

01:30:12.680 I can ask a question.

01:30:13.760 When a pilot says, I saw this thing happen, and it moved up in a way that I've never seen before,

01:30:17.980 and he's obviously not crazy... Maybe he is crazy, but we don't know that. I mean... And it came up in

01:30:23.200 front of me, and then it vanished. I don't know. Maybe he's seen an illusion, but wouldn't...

01:30:29.200 The other day, I played three-card bounty with a guy, and the dude totally made me believe me.

01:30:32.300 That's a serious question. That's a serious question. So, would you agree that... We would

01:30:39.520 all agree, if we know that there's no aliens out there in the universe, then the probability is

01:30:42.540 zero for any of these encounters. If we knew that, let's say, there was one intelligent

01:30:47.300 civilization per galaxy, that still makes 100 billion civilizations, but the chances of crossing

01:30:51.660 a galaxy is very slow, very slim. But if we knew, for example, that there was an intelligent

01:30:57.040 civilization in 20 of the 30 nearest stars to us, would you say that that makes the probability

01:31:04.000 more likely that one of these unexplained situations is alien in order?

01:31:09.580 Yes, but by so fine a margin that it's like saying that buying two lottery tickets makes

01:31:14.480 you more likely to win the lottery than buying one. It is true, as an absolute statement of fact,

01:31:19.720 that you have twice as much of a chance of winning the lottery if you buy two tickets. But it is not

01:31:24.380 true by any statistical actual reckoning. You are still overwhelmingly not going to win the lottery.

01:31:32.440 It doesn't mean you won't. Overwhelmingly not going to win the lottery. Your odds have changed

01:31:36.760 only by the most minute of margin. If I knew for a fact that there were aliens, if we had even heard

01:31:43.180 radio transmissions from aliens, even Elon Musk says there's something wrong that the universe is

01:31:48.540 so quiet. He obviously believes in aliens. He says he thinks that there's something that happens

01:31:53.040 that actually destroys civilizations before they can become interstellar travelers or we would

01:32:00.300 have been aware of them long before we saw them on a gun cam because we're listening, we're looking,

01:32:04.940 we observe, we watch the sky. Obviously the things aren't invisible if our pilots are seeing them.

01:32:08.860 In fact, in a funny way, we're capable of making aircraft that can't be seen by these same sensors

01:32:16.280 that apparently the aliens who can travel interstellar space aren't capable of.

01:32:19.580 But how do you explain? It's more likely that America, and I don't think this is what it is

01:32:23.540 either, but it's more likely that we're testing some sort of drone vehicle that can actually become

01:32:28.300 invisible, that can refract light and cloak itself. I know that's more possible because it's possible

01:32:33.180 and there are humans and we're making things all the time. Can we just use, I just want to go back

01:32:36.880 to the TikTok, not TikTok. The aliens might be on TikTok for sure. Let's use the TikTok example because

01:32:45.340 we have their four eyewitnesses up close. They observed it for five minutes, plus we have radar

01:32:51.180 data, plus we have video of all this same thing. That's really compelling evidence that at least,

01:32:54.760 so we know. Something was observed. Right. It was not a, it was not a glitch or anything. It was,

01:32:58.640 there was a real thing that was there that they saw. So. That is likely, although still not completely.

01:33:05.160 So what is, what is, what, what, what are your theories on what that thing was?

01:33:09.860 Well, I wouldn't begin to know what it was. As I said, they could have seen. It's literally called

01:33:14.480 an unidentified flying object. There are unidentified flying objects. This is where we

01:33:17.980 agree. I agree with you completely about this. I have no idea what it was. But the, but there are

01:33:21.400 far more likely scenarios than that it is extraterrestrial life, which we don't even

01:33:25.300 know exists. Far more likely that these pilots observe some man-made, because we know there are

01:33:31.420 men and they make things, craft operating in restricted zones where we know we test those kinds of

01:33:35.720 crafts. Hypersonic missiles that move at speeds we've never seen. Drones that are capable of

01:33:40.560 breaking, uh, G's that would have killed humans. Unpiloted vehicles can do things that piloted

01:33:45.840 vehicles never could because piloted vehicles kill people if they make certain hygiene maneuvers.

01:33:51.520 Testing with speed, testing with shapes, testing with, uh, automated control, maybe even testing with,

01:33:57.180 um, uh, electronic hacking where once we are observed, we're able to send false data to,

01:34:04.200 to the radar of our enemy to tell them what we're observing. I'm saying that any of those things

01:34:10.020 are possible and more likely than what was observed was a flying tic-tac UFO, uh, flying tic-tac full

01:34:16.040 of aliens. Um, although I will grant you that like winning the lottery, it is, there is a numeric

01:34:22.560 possibility that they observed extraterrestrial life. But I will also say that it is no more likely

01:34:28.120 that what they observed is an alien than that one of us is an alien. It's no more likely that what

01:34:32.660 they observed is an alien than that there are invisible aliens standing over our shoulders,

01:34:36.520 documenting this conversation to figure out how much more, how much we know.

01:34:40.800 Like whether they can subscribe or whether nothing was most importantly, you know, it's also,

01:34:45.920 we keep forgetting the, the communications element of this. So we we've been talking now for,

01:34:51.860 for our entire lives about how messaging is not accidental. Generally speaking,

01:34:57.560 there are strategies to communication, especially when it's coming from the government.

01:35:00.520 Does no one think it's like a little bit weird that the government and the mainstream media,

01:35:06.040 which is in cahoots with the federal government, is just like all pushing this one story right now?

01:35:11.000 Is that not, is there a way you're saying it's like a distraction or it's a, yeah, possible,

01:35:16.320 very possibly enough. That's more, I don't know if that's true, but it's more likely than that.

01:35:20.380 I find it very unlikely the government would use all this, all of a sudden decide to use

01:35:23.900 UFOs as a side. You know what? The only reason I mentioned it right now is because I realized we've

01:35:27.580 come to, you know, almost the end of the show and I haven't yet once plugged my book, which is about

01:35:31.640 like, it's called Speechless Controlling Words, Controlling Minds. There we go. There's the bell.

01:35:35.220 Okay. I just wanted to make sure we got at least one in during the, you know, but I also think it's

01:35:39.300 possibly true. I also think that, you know, we're just like the government does this and they can

01:35:43.640 probably buy your book. Usually when there's very quickly a bunch of confirmation that the thing

01:35:48.660 has happened. So say for example, that you're a native American living, you know, in America

01:35:55.140 before the settlers arrive and suddenly you see a boat on the water. You've never seen a boat on

01:35:58.560 the water before, right? This is a crazy thing. What is this thing? So you go and you tell all

01:36:01.720 your friends and your friends are like, that's crazy. That doesn't exist. Nobody's ever had

01:36:04.740 anything like that. Okay. And then the next day the boat arrives on the shore and a bunch of settlers

01:36:08.600 get off and they're like, Hey, now you've had some more confirmation. Okay. If the boat just went

01:36:13.960 away, sure, it could have been a boat, but like usually that's not how things go. Usually within a

01:36:19.680 fairly short period of time. And we've been talking about, as you say, these UFOs for like

01:36:22.780 what, 50 years, 60 years at this point. Yeah. They didn't go away. They're here, Ben.

01:36:27.060 Where's the, where's the cascade of information that confirms your belief that they are here?

01:36:31.000 We're getting the cascade of information right now. You just ruined your own argument.

01:36:34.760 No, what is the, what is the cascade? All of these, you're like, you're like, you're like,

01:36:39.940 you're like, you're like the native Americans going, there's no ship out there.

01:36:43.900 What is a white plane? No, because eventually the ships from other lands get off and then proceed to

01:36:48.640 destroy the, what's the worst thing you can do? I'll agree with this. If in 10 minutes they get

01:36:55.160 off the pill and get pregnant and if in 10 minutes they get off the pill and they start lecturing to

01:37:02.920 us about communal anarchism, then I will fully admit that the, you guys are going to be in trouble

01:37:09.560 when they come. Just solving this as anybody. I mean, listen, the Jews are in trouble with everyone.

01:37:13.420 They may as well get early on the bandwagon. Everyone hates us anyway. May as well get on

01:37:16.780 fourth ever civilizations, you know. I for one welcome our new Tic Tac.

01:37:21.040 Thank you for tuning in. As always, we're very happy to have you join us and we'd like to invite

01:37:25.200 you to become a member to enjoy the full Daily Wire experience. Head over to dailywire.com slash

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01:37:45.200 haven't been probed.

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The Matt Walsh Show - May 27, 2021

Daily Wire Backstage： The Mask Is Off

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