The Matt Walsh Show - September 13, 2018


Ep. 103 - Why It's Impossible To Have Fruitful Debates In Our Culture


Episode Stats

Length

36 minutes

Words per Minute

171.66168

Word Count

6,270

Sentence Count

503

Misogynist Sentences

12

Hate Speech Sentences

14


Summary


Transcript

00:00:00.000 So, Norm Macdonald, the comedian Norm Macdonald is the latest to end up getting trampled by the pitchfork mob.
00:00:09.800 And this was, I mean, this was inevitable.
00:00:11.980 This was going to happen with Norm Macdonald because he's known for being irreverent and politically incorrect and all that.
00:00:17.280 And also he's got a Netflix show coming out.
00:00:19.300 So he's been, he has poked his head up above everybody else and made himself visible.
00:00:26.560 And once you do that, then they're going to come after you and try to beat you back down.
00:00:31.380 That's the way it goes.
00:00:32.980 So, so his, his, his appearance on the Tonight Show was canceled a couple nights ago amid outcry over some comments that he made, comments that allegedly minimized sexual assault and racism.
00:00:47.420 And supposedly these comments, I'll read the comments to you in a minute, but his comments were so terrible that they made some producers on the Tonight Show cry.
00:00:56.560 And the Jimmy Fallon came into him before he was, before they were about to go on air and said, you know, my producers are in tears.
00:01:05.400 Now I can't, these were comments that Norm Macdonald made to the Hollywood Reporter.
00:01:11.600 He was giving an interview with the Hollywood Reporter.
00:01:14.620 I can't imagine reading an interview in the Hollywood Reporter with a comedian and weeping.
00:01:21.780 I can't imagine anything.
00:01:23.920 I mean, literally, I cannot think of a single thing a comedian in the Hollywood Reporter could say that would make me weep.
00:01:32.660 I just can't imagine what that would be.
00:01:36.120 But that's what happened.
00:01:37.320 So the appearance was canceled.
00:01:39.160 And then, and then, you know, there've been a lot of hot takes in the media explaining why Norm Macdonald's comments were problematic and symptomatic and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.
00:01:48.880 So let me, I think of everything that he said in the interview, here are the two segments that have gotten all the attention and are supposedly controversial.
00:01:59.940 I'll read them to you.
00:02:00.520 He says, he says, I'm happy the Me Too movement has slowed down a little bit.
00:02:04.880 It used to be 100 women can't be lying.
00:02:07.620 And then it became one woman can't lie.
00:02:09.620 And that became, I believe all women.
00:02:11.820 And then you're like, what?
00:02:12.900 Like that Chris Hardwick guy, I really thought he got the blunt end of the stick there.
00:02:18.640 And then a little bit later on, he says, well, Louis C.K. and Roseanne are the two people I know.
00:02:24.700 And Roseanne was so broken up that I got Louis to call her, even though Roseanne was very hard on Louis before that.
00:02:30.580 But she was just so broken and just crying constantly.
00:02:33.660 There are very few people that have gone through what they have, losing everything in a day.
00:02:37.620 Of course, people will go, what about the victims?
00:02:40.300 But you know what?
00:02:41.500 The victims didn't have to go through that.
00:02:47.480 Okay.
00:02:49.380 Now, let's just say first and foremost here that the outrage is ridiculous because he's not wrong about what he said, is he?
00:03:00.700 What did he say that was wrong?
00:03:04.200 What's he wrong about?
00:03:05.440 And I know that doesn't matter anymore.
00:03:07.680 It doesn't matter with the outrage culture.
00:03:10.300 It doesn't even matter if what you said is true.
00:03:13.380 People will say, it doesn't matter if it's true.
00:03:15.420 You shouldn't have said it anyway.
00:03:16.980 It's hurtful.
00:03:18.040 It hurts people.
00:03:19.600 People might be hurt by the truth, so you shouldn't say it.
00:03:22.780 But I think it does matter.
00:03:24.560 It does matter whether if something is true, if it's a valid point, then there's no reason to be upset about it.
00:03:33.340 So, where is the wrong part?
00:03:36.580 What did he say that was wrong?
00:03:37.620 Let's go through this.
00:03:39.020 Let's go through this one more time.
00:03:40.300 Let's go through it again and try to find the wrongness because I didn't see it.
00:03:45.740 I didn't see it.
00:03:46.320 At first blush, I couldn't find it.
00:03:47.920 But let's go through it again.
00:03:49.520 He says, I'm happy the Me Too movement has slowed down a little bit.
00:03:52.240 It used to be 100 women can't be lying.
00:03:53.800 Then it became one woman can't lie.
00:03:55.040 And that became, I believe, all women.
00:03:56.320 So, okay.
00:03:56.920 Is he wrong there?
00:03:57.900 That is the trajectory, right?
00:03:59.280 That is how it's gone.
00:04:00.600 It used to be that you have a bunch of women accusing a guy, and then we would say, well, look, all these women, it doesn't make any sense to say that they're all lying.
00:04:09.800 It's either the guy is lying or 12 or 15 women are lying.
00:04:14.140 And it just doesn't make any sense to assume that all those women are lying and the guy's telling the truth.
00:04:18.720 So, you know, that's how it used to be.
00:04:20.280 But then it became, and Norm is right about this, then it became, well, if one woman accuses a guy, then we automatically have to believe the woman.
00:04:30.780 We cannot even consider the possibility that maybe she's the liar and he's telling the truth.
00:04:36.940 We can't even consider it.
00:04:38.160 And then that became the, and this is the mantra of the Me Too movement and of feminists, but I believe women.
00:04:43.260 Believe women.
00:04:44.720 What kind of statement is that?
00:04:46.200 Believe women?
00:04:46.960 So I have to believe whatever a woman tells me because she's a woman?
00:04:51.340 Like a woman can never lie?
00:04:52.740 Is that what you're telling me?
00:04:53.640 Of course, that's crazy.
00:04:55.120 So he's right there.
00:04:56.060 He's right to criticize that.
00:04:58.240 And then he says Chris Hardwick got the blunt end of the stick.
00:05:00.940 What's wrong with that?
00:05:01.460 He did get the blunt end of the stick.
00:05:02.980 Chris Hardwick was accused in a blog post that he never even was mentioned by name, I don't think.
00:05:10.060 I think it was an anonymous accusation in a blog post by one person,
00:05:14.380 and he was never even accused of doing anything criminal.
00:05:17.320 He was basically accused of being a bad boyfriend.
00:05:20.140 And there was no evidence.
00:05:22.180 There was nobody corroborating it.
00:05:24.440 In fact, a bunch of people came out in defense of Chris Hardwick, including women who knew him,
00:05:29.660 former girlfriends and current girlfriend and whatever.
00:05:32.600 And they came out and said, no, that's not the guy I know.
00:05:34.700 I don't believe any of that.
00:05:35.900 So, and yet, he still suffered consequences for that in his career and his reputation.
00:05:41.760 That's not fair.
00:05:43.420 Why should that have any weight?
00:05:44.840 Because one person writes a blog post, you know, detailing things allegedly from your private life,
00:05:52.320 and we're supposed to believe that?
00:05:53.900 It should have no weight whatsoever, right?
00:05:57.580 If it's one person versus another person, and everyone that's come out is on the side of the accused,
00:06:04.140 then that has no weight.
00:06:08.180 And then he says, you know, he expresses some sympathy for Louis C.K. and Roseanne,
00:06:13.140 who are his friends.
00:06:14.800 Is he wrong for having sympathy for them?
00:06:16.900 They're his friends.
00:06:18.000 What is he supposed to say?
00:06:19.660 Oh, yeah, they're my friends, but they're total scumbags.
00:06:21.800 I'm glad their lives are ruined.
00:06:23.220 I hope they die.
00:06:24.140 Is that what he's supposed to say?
00:06:25.180 I guess that's what he's supposed to say.
00:06:26.600 Is that what you would say about your friend?
00:06:28.260 If your friend did a bad thing and, you know, their career was ruined and their lives were in shatters because of it,
00:06:36.860 would you then come out in the media and jump on the dog pile?
00:06:41.400 No, if you would, then you're a terrible friend.
00:06:44.440 Feel sorry for your friends in that case.
00:06:46.040 So he's just being a good friend here.
00:06:47.680 The only part of this that could even be considered halfway controversial is where he says,
00:06:52.700 of course, he says, they lost everything in a day.
00:06:58.080 People will go, what about the victims?
00:06:59.480 You know what?
00:06:59.920 The victims didn't have to go through that.
00:07:01.520 Okay.
00:07:02.620 Again, is he wrong?
00:07:06.400 He's right that Roseanne and Louis C.K. did lose everything in a day.
00:07:10.520 I mean, they were, Roseanne had the number one show on TV.
00:07:14.720 She lost it.
00:07:15.460 I mean, she was having this resurgence in her career that was taken away from him.
00:07:19.460 Louis C.K. was this, you know, considered this comedic genius and he was award winning, critically acclaimed, popular.
00:07:27.260 I mean, he had everything.
00:07:28.560 He was popular and he had critical acclaim, which is really hard to do, especially in comedy.
00:07:33.640 And he had all of that and then all of that went away.
00:07:37.420 Now he's a disgrace and he has a punchline and he lost everything.
00:07:39.840 Now, whether or not you think that they deserve that, it is true that that happened to them.
00:07:44.860 And it's also true that if you're a friend of those people, I think you would have some sympathy for that.
00:07:50.960 And then his other claim is that, well, that's not what happened to the victims.
00:07:54.100 Okay.
00:07:54.500 Well, first of all, who was Roseanne's victim?
00:07:57.480 She wrote a mean tweet about Valerie Jarrett.
00:08:01.240 Is Valerie Jarrett a victim?
00:08:03.640 If that makes you a victim, then I am, then I myself am a huge victim because people write mean things about me online all the time.
00:08:11.400 But regardless, did Valerie Jarrett lose everything?
00:08:13.740 Was her whole life destroyed because Roseanne wrote a mean tweet about her?
00:08:17.120 No, I don't think so.
00:08:20.000 And then Louis C.K., he sexually harassed several women.
00:08:25.100 Apparently, he doesn't even deny it.
00:08:26.560 So, you know, we don't even have to say allegedly he did do it.
00:08:28.940 As far as I know, like, I don't like reading all the gruesome details of these things
00:08:33.060 because it's just, it's not, you know, I don't think I need to know it.
00:08:35.600 But from my understanding of the Louis C.K. situation is that he exposed himself and
00:08:40.680 pleasured himself in front of several women.
00:08:45.620 But as the story goes, as far as I know, he would ask them, is it okay if I expose myself?
00:08:55.760 And then they would say yes, and then he would do it.
00:08:59.180 But then now they're saying, well, you know, I said yes, but I thought he was joking.
00:09:03.720 I didn't know he'd actually do it.
00:09:04.600 And I wanted to leave the room.
00:09:06.440 I was, you know, it was very uncomfortable or he was like in the way of the doors, you
00:09:10.180 know, and, and, and regardless, it's obviously it's creepy and disgusting for Louis C.K.
00:09:18.140 That's just, that's even if you ask, that's just not a question that you ask some strange
00:09:23.700 woman or, you know, some acquaintance, you know, you just, it's just, it's, it is not an appropriate
00:09:29.620 question to ask, right?
00:09:33.680 But what Norm Macdonald is saying is, well, these women, yes, it was wrong what Louis C.K.
00:09:41.160 did.
00:09:41.820 Were their lives destroyed, though?
00:09:43.800 I mean, was the whole course of their life ruined because of this incident?
00:09:49.480 Are their lives left in ruins and tatters because of this, because of Louis C.K. exposing
00:09:56.140 himself?
00:09:56.420 Well, you could make the argument that no, probably not.
00:10:02.900 So that's all, you know, that, that was his only point.
00:10:05.680 I think it's a valid point.
00:10:07.100 It's not a crazy point.
00:10:09.140 Is it?
00:10:09.720 It's not crazy.
00:10:10.360 It's not insane.
00:10:11.500 It's valid.
00:10:13.160 And it does raise questions about proportionality.
00:10:17.920 You know, even when someone does something disgusting and wrong and then their whole life
00:10:21.560 is destroyed, like, is that proportionate?
00:10:23.460 And so that's just, it's a discussion that we can have.
00:10:25.520 Why can't we talk about that?
00:10:27.220 And here's the greater point I want to make.
00:10:29.300 You see here why it's impossible.
00:10:31.420 It's impossible to talk about anything in America anymore.
00:10:34.780 We can't have discussions.
00:10:36.520 We can't have debates.
00:10:38.400 Because if you commit the crime of giving a unique perspective in public, people will
00:10:43.280 seize hold of it and sift through it looking for the one or two most controversial sentences.
00:10:48.780 And then they'll divorce those sentences from their context and search desperately for the
00:10:54.260 most uncharitable possible interpretation to ruin you with it.
00:10:59.900 And there's no attempt to understand the actual point that you were trying to make.
00:11:03.760 No one, no attempt to understand what was said.
00:11:05.920 There's no engagement, no discourse.
00:11:08.420 Speech is treated like this game with arbitrary rules.
00:11:11.860 Whoever breaks the rules will be punished regardless of intent.
00:11:18.640 It's insane what we do now.
00:11:22.080 The way that we totally disregard intent is maybe the most remarkable aspect of this.
00:11:29.180 And it's because it happens all the time that somebody will say something and then the outrage
00:11:34.340 mob will take it and they will find the most outrageous possible interpretation.
00:11:39.420 And so with something like this, like when we're talking about sexual assault, sexual harassment,
00:11:45.280 the Me Too movement, anybody who tries to find a nuanced perspective or anyone who even hints
00:11:52.480 that possibly in some of these cases, the penalties have been disproportionate to the offense committed,
00:12:00.280 anyone who even begins to sort of make that point will be accused of defending sexual harassment
00:12:06.820 or being an apologist for rape, right?
00:12:11.280 Which is the most outrageous possible interpretation of what they actually said.
00:12:19.240 But then what happens is, so, you know, the outrage mob comes and they'll say,
00:12:25.400 we're offended because we think that you meant X, Y, Z, okay?
00:12:31.160 We think that you meant that it's okay to sexually assault and harass people.
00:12:36.420 That's how we took it.
00:12:38.420 And then the person will go, no, that's not what I meant.
00:12:41.240 That's not what I meant.
00:12:42.800 No, I'm totally, of course, I'm totally opposed to sexual assault and harassment.
00:12:47.380 I think what they did is terrible.
00:12:48.540 I'm just trying to raise another question so that we could talk about this.
00:12:52.320 But now that right there, that should end it.
00:12:58.080 That should be the end of the controversy.
00:12:59.960 That should be it.
00:13:00.800 Because he just told you what he meant.
00:13:03.660 You were wrong.
00:13:04.900 You misinterpreted it.
00:13:06.900 And so he's telling you what he actually meant.
00:13:09.880 And he knows what he meant.
00:13:11.680 He is the only authority over what he meant, not you, him.
00:13:15.440 He's the one who said it.
00:13:16.420 He's in his mind.
00:13:17.220 He knows what he meant.
00:13:18.120 He's telling you what he meant.
00:13:19.820 That should be it.
00:13:21.040 But there's once when someone says something and you interpret it in a way that makes the
00:13:30.120 comment offensive, and then he says to you, no, I didn't mean it in that offensive way.
00:13:36.100 I meant it in this way.
00:13:37.140 That should be it.
00:13:37.940 You have no basis now to continue being offended.
00:13:41.180 He has taken it from you.
00:13:42.600 If you continue being offended, it's because you want to be offended and you don't even care
00:13:46.740 what he said.
00:13:47.220 So you're a liar and you are disingenuous.
00:13:51.040 Um, because it just doesn't make any sense when someone clarifies what they meant.
00:13:55.960 It doesn't make any sense for you to go.
00:13:57.340 Yeah, well, I'm going to stick with my original interpretation of your words.
00:14:00.000 I don't care what you think you meant.
00:14:02.720 I'm going to go with what I think you meant because I know more about what you meant than
00:14:08.220 you know about what you meant.
00:14:09.560 That doesn't make any sense.
00:14:10.580 But as I said, it's all a game.
00:14:12.380 Nobody wants to actually talk about anything because everybody's just laying traps and claiming
00:14:17.500 trophies.
00:14:18.060 And that's it.
00:14:19.920 That's the way it works.
00:14:21.180 Here's how it works.
00:14:22.040 Every topic, every issue is A or B now.
00:14:25.420 That's the way it works in America.
00:14:26.580 It's A or B.
00:14:27.900 And so the mindless masses on both sides, that's how they see it.
00:14:32.300 They see it as an A or B thing.
00:14:34.680 Every issue, whatever the issue is, A or B.
00:14:37.040 Those are the, you know, if you're in the mindless masses on either side, you're looking
00:14:41.540 at it as you can have A position or B position and that's it.
00:14:45.400 That's all that's allowed.
00:14:49.720 But the real problem, and we have to understand this, okay, about the way this works.
00:14:56.400 For both sides, okay, they see their own position as the A position and the other side is the
00:15:04.520 B position.
00:15:05.720 And the B position is always going to be a caricature.
00:15:09.240 It's not a real position.
00:15:10.280 It's a caricature of a position.
00:15:15.600 But the real problem is that the A or B dynamic is applied to every issue, which means that
00:15:22.260 nobody is allowed to find something in between A and B.
00:15:26.700 Or nobody's allowed to go and, you know, take a little from column A, a little bit from
00:15:30.720 column B and say, you know, I can see, I can see what they mean on this side.
00:15:34.280 I can see what they mean on this.
00:15:35.140 I think they both are valid, but they're not allowed to do that.
00:15:37.360 And certainly nobody's allowed to come with a C position or a G position.
00:15:42.340 God forbid a Y or a Z position, you know, God forbid someone really legitimately comes
00:15:49.440 from left field and says something that's way outside of that paradigm completely.
00:15:56.100 If you do that, you're just going to be devoured.
00:16:00.060 Nobody's even going to begin to listen to you.
00:16:02.680 So we have here, what we have here is what I have been calling for a long time.
00:16:10.460 It is the death of nuance.
00:16:13.140 It is the death of subtlety.
00:16:15.580 It's the death of distinction.
00:16:19.240 It is, more to the point, it is the death of interesting ideas.
00:16:25.320 Because every position has to be something that you can summarize in one sentence.
00:16:34.020 And the other side, if they don't hear their sentence repeated back to them,
00:16:40.000 they'll just descend on you and rip you to shreds.
00:16:43.660 That's all.
00:16:44.720 That's what a discussion is supposed to be.
00:16:46.680 They, each side, they have their sentence.
00:16:49.040 They have their sentence, their position,
00:16:50.920 and they just want to hear their sentence said back to them.
00:16:54.940 And if they don't hear it, then, then you're in trouble.
00:17:00.880 Both sides do this, by the way.
00:17:02.560 It's not just a liberal thing.
00:17:03.820 I hate to tell you, this is not, this is not like liberals do this and,
00:17:09.240 but conservatives are intelligent and are always subtle and nuanced
00:17:13.560 and they're always looking for the interesting.
00:17:15.460 But no, that's not, maybe it used to be kind of how it goes.
00:17:18.780 That's not how it goes anymore.
00:17:20.920 Um, now for liberals, let's just take an example of how this works.
00:17:26.020 Um, let's use the example we've been using so far.
00:17:29.960 When you take an issue like Me Too,
00:17:32.760 the way they approach it is that everyone must take the position
00:17:38.200 that all accusations are true.
00:17:42.060 Every accused man is a scumbag who should die.
00:17:45.980 Whatever penalty he's suffering is fair.
00:17:48.680 You know, no matter how severe.
00:17:51.840 Um, every victim has been irreparably and profoundly harmed and traumatized.
00:17:58.640 Okay.
00:17:59.760 Um, and no consideration whatsoever should be given to the men innocent or not.
00:18:05.580 And especially if the man is guilty, you're not allowed to have any,
00:18:10.820 any sympathy at all for him.
00:18:13.900 None.
00:18:15.740 Um, that's the, that's their position.
00:18:18.480 You know, that I'm not, that's not a caricature of their position.
00:18:20.600 That is really their position.
00:18:21.880 Uh, as I said, that, you know, believe women.
00:18:26.820 That's the, that's their, that's not my slogan.
00:18:28.440 That's their slogan, which is an absolute statement.
00:18:31.980 Believe women.
00:18:32.520 If a woman says it, believe her.
00:18:33.880 That's really their position.
00:18:35.980 And it's for them.
00:18:37.060 It's the only acceptable.
00:18:39.120 Any differing position will be put into the B camp.
00:18:43.220 So that's a camp for them.
00:18:44.920 That's right.
00:18:45.840 If you say something different, you're in B camp.
00:18:48.220 And B for them is the position that sexual abuse is good.
00:18:52.940 And all women are liars.
00:18:55.100 Okay.
00:18:55.700 That for them is B position.
00:18:57.240 Now, here's the problem.
00:18:59.280 Nobody actually holds that position.
00:19:02.120 Nobody's saying that.
00:19:03.360 I've never heard anyone say that.
00:19:04.780 That is not a position that anyone holds.
00:19:08.600 That position doesn't exist in real life, but they have created it.
00:19:14.380 And anyone who, who fails to parrot their opinions back to them on this issue will be thrown into B camp.
00:19:21.980 So if you try to say, yeah, sexual harassment, sexual assault, terrible things.
00:19:25.900 We got to root those out.
00:19:27.260 We've got, um, however, you know, as soon as you start the, however, they won't even listen to the rest of your sentence.
00:19:34.780 They're throwing you into B camp.
00:19:37.040 If you say, yeah, there's a sexual abuse problem, but it's also true that women lie sometimes.
00:19:42.320 And so we have to account for, nope, you're going in B.
00:19:45.420 Doesn't matter.
00:19:46.320 Stop right there.
00:19:47.380 You're in B.
00:19:48.480 Or if you say, yeah, you know, these men, they've done a terrible thing, but, um,
00:19:51.780 not all forms of harassment are the same, are the same in terms of degree and severity.
00:19:56.740 And so maybe they don't all necessarily deserve to have their lives completely destroyed for it.
00:20:01.520 And maybe, nope, you're going in B.
00:20:03.700 Doesn't stop right there.
00:20:05.020 You're going in B.
00:20:06.340 I don't even want to hear the rest of it.
00:20:08.220 And that's the way it goes.
00:20:09.680 Um, now the right does this too.
00:20:12.860 And I know a lot of people listening to this and watching this right now, this is the part
00:20:17.520 you don't want to hear.
00:20:18.360 You've been really, you've been with me so far.
00:20:20.040 Now you don't want to hear the rest of this.
00:20:22.240 And if you're like, if you're thinking right now and you're in, and now you're getting upset
00:20:26.000 because I'm, well, then you're part of the problem.
00:20:29.180 Okay.
00:20:29.540 Um, because the right does do this and take it from me.
00:20:36.420 Okay.
00:20:37.620 Let's, let's take one example for many people on the right.
00:20:41.880 When it comes to Donald Trump, there are only two positions, their position.
00:20:47.500 The one that they take is that this is the A position for them.
00:20:51.600 It's that Donald Trump is a genius and a hero, and he is saving the world.
00:20:57.040 Okay.
00:20:57.560 Again, that is not a caricature.
00:20:59.540 Uh, that is an actual position, not only an actual, but that is the position that is
00:21:08.100 the kind of mainstream right-wing position.
00:21:12.980 Um, and, and, you know, this comparing Donald Trump to biblical heroes like King David.
00:21:21.000 Okay.
00:21:21.280 I didn't invent that.
00:21:22.700 That's what people actually say, comparing him to, I mean, really making him into this
00:21:29.120 messianic figure who saved America from the edge of destruction.
00:21:35.140 Okay.
00:21:35.660 That, and that is the A position.
00:21:37.400 That's the position you have to take.
00:21:38.720 And the, then there's the B position.
00:21:40.920 Okay.
00:21:41.320 And that's everything else.
00:21:42.200 And if you're in the B position, that means that you're a liberal and you hate America.
00:21:46.560 Okay.
00:21:47.640 Um, so if you, if you try to offer any criticism of Trump at all, in any situation, for any
00:21:57.860 reason, you're going to be thrown into B camp.
00:22:01.080 I know what I'm talking about.
00:22:02.340 This happens to me all the time.
00:22:03.420 I have been told so many times, if any time, I mean, any time I offer any criticism of
00:22:11.500 Trump and I say, you know, I think he's wrong on this one, or I think he should have done
00:22:16.080 this, but instead of doing that, or, you know, really, I think tweeting like a 12 year
00:22:20.980 old girl all the time is maybe not becoming for a president.
00:22:23.960 And, uh, maybe he should stop it.
00:22:26.180 If I, if I, anytime I say that, all of people say, well, you're a liberal.
00:22:31.040 What are you?
00:22:31.580 Some kind of lib, you libtard and you hate America.
00:22:35.320 This is what I'm told me, a liberal.
00:22:38.000 I wrote a book called the unholy Trinity about transgenderism, abortion, and gay marriage,
00:22:43.940 calling that the unholy Trinity.
00:22:45.800 That's a book that I wrote.
00:22:46.960 And I'm a liberal because I don't like Donald Trump's tweets.
00:22:50.320 This is the mentality that people actually have.
00:22:54.520 It's a, and it's not just a few people, a lot of people.
00:22:58.060 So distinctions, nuances, opposing ideas, these really are not accepted by either side
00:23:05.320 anymore.
00:23:05.900 They don't want to hear it.
00:23:07.800 I can't tell you how many times, I mean, it's a daily occurrence that I'll venture outside
00:23:13.000 of the accepted mainstream conservative paradigm on some random issue, whether it's Donald Trump
00:23:18.120 or anything else.
00:23:18.820 And then I'll have people tell me, I mean, this happens, like I said, it's a daily occurrence
00:23:22.360 that someone will say to me, you know, I've read your stuff for years.
00:23:25.940 I've been a fan for five years.
00:23:27.440 I'm done.
00:23:28.640 You're unfollowed.
00:23:29.600 I'm not following you anymore because of your position on this one single topic.
00:23:35.660 It happened to me just the other day when I, the other day I, and I've said this before,
00:23:39.780 but the other day I suggested that our reaction to the Anthem kneelers, okay, maybe is a little
00:23:50.460 bit overblown.
00:23:52.480 Like maybe it's time to move on.
00:23:55.760 And right now in the NFL, there are like one or two guys on any given Sunday, you're going
00:24:02.900 to have a thousand, over a thousand NFL players on fields across, you know, America and various
00:24:09.200 states.
00:24:10.660 And you might now find one, two, maybe three players out of a thousand who are kneeling.
00:24:17.820 So that to me is, it's not an issue.
00:24:20.360 Two or three guys out of a thousand, who cares?
00:24:23.820 Let, who cares what they're doing?
00:24:25.600 It doesn't, I mean, do we really need every single last person to, so you're going to,
00:24:31.100 we're going to boycott the NFL until every single last person associated has the correct
00:24:36.480 posture during the Anthem?
00:24:37.660 I just find that to be a, it's just, it's a, it's ridiculous.
00:24:42.360 Now I'm not, I'm not, I'm not agreeing with them.
00:24:45.280 It's not an agreement.
00:24:47.660 I'm, I'm, so there's a slight nuance.
00:24:49.700 It's, I agree.
00:24:50.800 I don't like the Anthem protests.
00:24:52.600 However, yet as soon as I tack that however on, that's when people, and I, just the other
00:24:57.880 day, people told me they're done following me because of that.
00:25:01.100 That if, if it's actually true that they've been following, so think about that.
00:25:07.040 I've been reading your stuff for five years.
00:25:10.200 I respect your opinion.
00:25:12.280 I've been with you.
00:25:13.720 You have ventured away from me on this one slight issue.
00:25:17.740 And so I'm done.
00:25:19.100 That mentality is so shockingly small-minded and narrow and ridiculous, but it's how people
00:25:30.880 function.
00:25:32.300 And this is why there can't be any meaningful discussion in America, because people on both
00:25:39.220 sides, they simply don't want to hear any divergent opinion at all.
00:25:44.500 Now, you know what's the worst thing about all this?
00:25:49.760 The worst thing is that it's so boring.
00:25:52.860 It makes our discussions in this country so helplessly, awfully boring, because nobody's
00:25:58.500 allowed to be interesting.
00:26:00.240 No one's allowed to make an interesting point.
00:26:02.140 No one's allowed to be challenging.
00:26:04.240 No one's allowed to come out of left field with something.
00:26:06.620 Nobody's allowed to introduce a thoughtful nuance to a discussion and therefore develop
00:26:12.240 the discussion a little bit.
00:26:13.700 Like with the anthem thing.
00:26:15.420 Yes, we've all heard for three years now.
00:26:17.180 We've heard the standard conservative stand for the anthem.
00:26:20.060 Yeah, I get it.
00:26:20.860 Fine.
00:26:21.200 I mean, how many times do we have to say that?
00:26:23.020 Can we develop the discussion and talk about something else related to it that's a little
00:26:27.600 bit more interesting?
00:26:29.220 Do we really have an insatiable appetite to hear our one sentence thought on this topic
00:26:35.080 repeated to us over and over again for three years?
00:26:37.700 Is that what we need?
00:26:41.840 But we're not, that's just, it's not allowed.
00:26:44.900 And the effect is the collective stupefying of America.
00:26:48.120 The people are, and the people who are leading the discussion, the people who have platforms,
00:26:55.080 you know, in this country, the people in the media, you know, they contribute to the
00:26:58.880 problem because they know that this is the dynamic.
00:27:02.340 And so they know they're not going to get away with a nuanced position.
00:27:04.980 They know they're not going to get away with challenging their own side.
00:27:08.440 And so what they do is they just, they, they, for every position, they think of the most,
00:27:12.760 of the most simple, simplified perspective, and they just keep repeating it over and over
00:27:19.040 and over and over and over again.
00:27:24.580 Why has this happened?
00:27:27.000 I mean, why has it gotten to this point?
00:27:28.340 Um, well, I think there are a lot of explanations.
00:27:31.280 Number one, just intellectually, people are intellectually lazy.
00:27:34.800 They don't, they don't want to apply their brain to anything.
00:27:38.100 Number two, I think people are, you know, it's, it's a little bit of a cowardice.
00:27:41.660 People don't want to be challenged.
00:27:43.160 They're afraid that if they allow their position, their opinion to be challenged,
00:27:47.720 that they may find out they're wrong about something.
00:27:50.800 And if they're wrong about this, then maybe they're wrong about that and that.
00:27:53.740 And then the whole house of cards comes tommeling down.
00:27:55.640 People are afraid of that.
00:27:56.360 So they don't want to hear it.
00:27:57.640 And number three, I also think, and this goes to the intellectual laziness.
00:28:00.120 So it's not really a third thing goes back to number one, but it, people don't, people
00:28:04.560 don't read, you know, um, we're so used to the, you know, we, we're so used to little
00:28:10.400 sound bites and having everything packaged for us in the most entertaining and simplified
00:28:13.860 way.
00:28:15.420 And, and people don't, you know, if, because people don't read whole books in, you know,
00:28:22.580 if you're in the habit of reading whole books, like actually in whole chapters and everything,
00:28:28.920 then you're going to have more patience for someone to express an idea that takes more
00:28:36.120 than one sentence to explain.
00:28:39.640 But most people don't read books, so they don't have the patience for that.
00:28:43.960 Maybe they don't have the ability anymore to understand an idea that takes more than one
00:28:49.280 sentence to explain.
00:28:50.020 And so that's the problem.
00:28:53.240 Now, two other quick points.
00:28:54.820 Um, people will say that I'm guilty of this, right?
00:29:00.080 And I don't deny it.
00:29:01.100 I'm not saying that I'm innocent that I'll, you know, whatever.
00:29:04.620 Maybe I'm a hundred percent guilty on, on, on, with all this stuff.
00:29:07.700 I mean, it doesn't mean I'm wrong.
00:29:08.920 Okay.
00:29:09.200 So you could, it doesn't matter.
00:29:10.320 It doesn't matter.
00:29:11.260 I'm not saying I'm innocent, but let me also just add.
00:29:14.340 That there are two types of black and white thinking.
00:29:18.900 Okay.
00:29:19.700 And I'm accused of being a black and white thinker all the time.
00:29:24.240 But there, there's the bad kind of black and white thinking.
00:29:27.140 And then there's the good kind.
00:29:29.040 Okay.
00:29:29.440 And maybe I'm guilty.
00:29:30.500 Maybe I do both.
00:29:31.380 Okay.
00:29:31.500 But what I've been talking about here is the bad type of black and white thinking.
00:29:37.000 The black and white thinking that does, is not interested in nuance, is not interested
00:29:41.320 in subtlety, is not interested in any kind of distinction whatsoever.
00:29:44.260 And which just wants to hear its own ideas, parroted back to it as simplified, as stupefied
00:29:50.920 as possible.
00:29:51.500 Okay.
00:29:51.620 So that's the bad kind of black and white thing.
00:29:53.580 But then there's another black and white type of thinking where you have firm fundamental
00:29:58.940 principles, which you do not compromise on and which you will not look for any gray area
00:30:05.460 on.
00:30:05.760 And then, and then, so for me, um, a fundamental principle is, uh, that human beings have worth
00:30:13.880 and dignity.
00:30:14.480 Okay.
00:30:15.000 That's a fundamental principle that I have.
00:30:16.820 And it's right.
00:30:17.540 I will, I will not accept I'm black and white.
00:30:19.620 I won't accept any gray area on that.
00:30:23.120 I think every human being who exists has worth and dignity, period.
00:30:26.400 Okay.
00:30:26.740 No gray area.
00:30:27.400 So on that, you can accuse me of black and white thinking, but then the interesting thing
00:30:32.500 is to take that black and white principle and apply it to figure out how it applies to
00:30:38.940 various different situations.
00:30:40.400 And so that's where you can have some really interesting discussions.
00:30:45.540 Now with something like abortion, I think it applies very simply.
00:30:48.420 Abortion is a terrible, evil, period, end of discussion.
00:30:50.940 Something like capital punishment.
00:30:52.540 Well, now here's an interesting way of thinking, because you can make an argument on either end.
00:30:56.460 You've got, you've got the firm fundamental principle.
00:30:59.140 Okay.
00:30:59.280 That that's black and white, no gray area.
00:31:01.100 But now you're injecting it into this very complicated subject where you can make an argument
00:31:07.200 that it, that it could lead you in either direction.
00:31:11.620 And so that's interesting.
00:31:13.300 Right.
00:31:13.880 So, so, so being black and white on principles that does not negate or interfere with nuanced
00:31:20.780 and interesting discussions.
00:31:22.340 In fact, I think, I think being black and white on principle is, is necessary to have nuanced
00:31:30.200 and interesting discussions.
00:31:32.860 Because that's part of the problem here is that people are very black and white on the
00:31:39.200 superficial talking point level.
00:31:41.380 Like on the surface level, people are black and white.
00:31:44.480 But when it comes to the principles underneath that, people have no idea what they believe.
00:31:48.940 They don't have firm principles.
00:31:51.040 All they have is the conclusion.
00:31:53.180 They have no idea what principles actually inform those conclusions.
00:31:58.000 So it's exactly reversed.
00:31:59.600 But when you're firm on your principles and you know what they are, and you're talking
00:32:05.320 to someone who's firm in their principles, that's when you can have super interesting
00:32:08.740 like with my family.
00:32:10.160 Okay.
00:32:10.360 You know, you, you should, um, you know, when I get together with my family, uh, we will
00:32:18.680 have the most knock down, drag out debates you can imagine.
00:32:21.760 Not literally knock down, drag, although it's come close to blows a few times.
00:32:24.880 Um, but we, you know, we just have really passionate debates.
00:32:29.060 Okay.
00:32:29.560 And yeah, there'll be screaming and shouting and everything, right?
00:32:32.640 It gets, it gets crazy.
00:32:34.440 Even though we agree on, we agree on almost everything when it comes to the, to the, to
00:32:40.000 the fundamental principles.
00:32:42.580 You know, we're all Christian.
00:32:44.080 We all believe in God.
00:32:44.900 We're all conservative.
00:32:46.000 You know, we're all super ultra conservative, all of us.
00:32:48.540 Yet we have these intense debates.
00:32:51.260 And I think those debates are possible because we agree.
00:32:54.400 We're talking the same language.
00:32:56.520 We agree on the principles so we can kind of get past that.
00:33:00.760 And then we can have super interesting discussions about how do we apply those principles to this
00:33:06.300 situation.
00:33:07.480 And I think that's an, that's such a fascinating conversation to have.
00:33:13.180 And that's why among conservatives, we should be able to have really interesting debates among
00:33:19.360 ourselves.
00:33:20.400 Um, because supposedly we agree on the principles.
00:33:23.300 And we should be able to have, now it's harder to have these nuanced discussions with someone
00:33:27.920 where you don't share any of the, any fundamental values whatsoever.
00:33:32.220 This, it's another thing that interferes with the, you know, the debate between, um, one of the
00:33:37.200 reasons why the debates between conservatives and liberals are, are, are so fruitless is that
00:33:40.940 we don't, we don't have any common ground.
00:33:42.300 We don't share the same language.
00:33:43.320 We don't have any of the same, uh, presuppositions or anything like that.
00:33:46.340 So there's, there's no basis, there's no ground, solid ground upon which to stage this conversation
00:33:52.300 so that every discussion ends up devolving back down into like, is there a God, right?
00:33:58.460 Um, but among conservatives, because we supposedly agree most of us on the fundamentals, we should be able to have really
00:34:07.180 interesting conversations, but, uh, and I think there was a time in conservative conservatism when, when that, when that, when that did happen.
00:34:15.800 And there was this really intense, edifying, um, mentally strengthening debate within conservatism on various issues.
00:34:28.280 That's not how it goes anymore because most people, even among conservatives, they just, they don't want to hear, they, they have their, a position, one sentence on every issue.
00:34:40.820 That's all they want to hear.
00:34:42.460 All they want to hear from you is that you agree with it.
00:34:49.000 All right.
00:34:53.320 Oh, well, I've been going on for a while now.
00:34:55.220 Um, and even this.
00:34:58.880 I mean, going on, like I've been talking for 35 minutes about the same topic.
00:35:05.220 People tell me all the time, like, what, you know, the videos are too long.
00:35:09.620 Why, why don't you talk about multiple topics in a video?
00:35:12.060 Like who wants to hear a 30 minute conversation about the same topic?
00:35:16.180 Maybe nobody wants to hear it.
00:35:17.560 I don't know.
00:35:18.040 But to me, that's, I think that's interesting.
00:35:20.920 We should be able to spend 30 minutes.
00:35:22.640 We should be able to spend three hours on just one topic, getting into all the,
00:35:27.660 nuances of it.
00:35:31.020 People don't want to hear that.
00:35:33.060 That's why all the, all the Facebook, you know, you see all these conservative Facebook stars.
00:35:38.180 And, uh, you know, they, they, they, they developed this huge following by putting out like two minute videos on, on some issue.
00:35:47.480 How could you possibly say anything interesting or worthwhile in two minutes?
00:35:52.320 It's not enough time yet.
00:35:53.960 People love it.
00:35:54.560 They just want it.
00:35:55.080 They want to hear the two minute, um, you know, a few sentences, two minutes, repeating their own ideas back to them.
00:36:00.500 So they can share it and say, amen.
00:36:02.280 Oh yeah.
00:36:03.540 That's yes.
00:36:04.320 You tell it like it is.
00:36:07.220 Wow.
00:36:08.620 That person didn't say anything.
00:36:09.900 What do you mean?
00:36:10.520 Wow.
00:36:10.920 They didn't say anything interesting.
00:36:14.120 Did they really say something that, that, that made you like think differently about this issue?
00:36:18.480 Did they really enlighten you?
00:36:21.540 Anyway, I'm just going to leave it at that.
00:36:24.140 Thanks for listening, everybody.
00:36:28.960 Um, thanks for watching.
00:36:31.120 Godspeed.