The Matt Walsh Show - Ep. 111 - Should Students Be Allowed To Sit During The Pledge Of Allegiance？

00:00:00.240 All right, hello everybody. Happy National Pancake Day, by the way. I don't know if you can hear it, but I'm coming down with a little bit of a thing, a little bit of a sickness, and so I'm going to try to get through this best I can.

00:00:11.480 Actually, my whole family's been sick for the last week, and I thought that I had escaped. I was feeling pretty proud of myself. I was feeling proud of my immune system, and so I was saying to my immune system, way to go. I'm proud of you.

00:00:23.140 And then it immediately just let me down. You know, there's nothing worse, by the way, than being the last person in the family to get sick. Nothing worse than that, because for one thing, you're left out.

00:00:34.640 I mean, you're left out to begin with because everybody's sick at the same time, and they're hanging out, and they're bonding, and they're having their popsicles and their soup, and they're having sick people conversations, and you're the odd man out.

00:00:45.180 But then it flips around, and they're all healthy, and all the soup and all the popsicles are gone, and nobody wants to bond anymore.

00:00:53.760 They're all staying away from you because they don't want to get the sickness again.

00:00:56.100 And the other problem is that there's the comparison that they'll make.

00:00:58.940 So everyone draws comparisons, so they'll say, oh, you're still sick after three days?

00:01:04.400 Well, I was fine after, too, trying to make you feel like a wimp.

00:01:06.880 Or they'll go the other direction, and they'll say, oh, you only have a fever of 100?

00:01:10.760 Well, I had a fever of 115, and so I don't know, maybe, which is probably a total exaggeration, by the way.

00:01:18.680 Anyway, I want to take a break from the Kavanaugh circus to talk about a different circus, this one down in Texas.

00:01:26.100 There's an interesting case involving the Pledge of Allegiance, and let me read the report from the Washington Times for you.

00:01:32.780 It says, Texas state officials have intervened in a dispute over the Pledge of Allegiance backing a local school district's expulsion of a student who sat during it.

00:01:41.740 According to a report in the Houston Chronicle, Attorney General Ken Paxton filed a notice to intervene in a civil rights lawsuit brought against Cypress Fairbanks ISD,

00:01:49.740 arguing that schoolchildren cannot unilaterally refuse to participate in the pledge.

00:01:54.080 Student India Landry was expelled from Winfern High School last fall for refusing to participate in the pledge,

00:02:00.860 saying she's been inspired by the NFL players such as Colin Kaepernick.

00:02:04.740 With the support of her parents, Miss Landry, who is black, then sued the Cypher ISD, 0.99

00:02:09.580 saying the expulsion violated her free speech rights and was racially motivated.

00:02:13.100 The attorney general's filing cites a Supreme Court finding that government can back, quote,

00:02:19.360 the national flag as a symbol of our country.

00:02:21.600 Texas law allows parents to submit a letter claiming an exemption from standing for the pledge,

00:02:28.880 but it apparently was not filed by Miss Landry's parents.

00:02:32.820 The Texas law says standing for the pledge is mandatory otherwise.

00:02:38.520 And so, okay, that's the story.

00:02:41.600 So I have a few different points, several opinions here, and I'm all over the map,

00:02:46.800 so I'm sure that I'll alienate everyone.

00:02:48.260 And that's my goal here is I'm going to alienate everyone, and by the end of this,

00:02:52.920 both sides will disagree with me, because that's where I feel most comfortable is where everybody is mad at me.

00:03:00.040 So first of all, and I know that I will not find many conservative people who will agree with me on this point,

00:03:07.720 but I am not a fan, really, of the Pledge of Allegiance in public school.

00:03:16.280 The thing itself is fine, but the mandatory Pledge of Allegiance, I'm not a fan of that.

00:03:21.240 I don't like it for two reasons.

00:03:22.340 One, I'm not sure I see the point in forcing kids to stand and pledge allegiance to their country.

00:03:29.680 It seems to be a bit of an empty ritual to me.

00:03:32.420 I mean, this thing as a ritual doesn't make sense to me.

00:03:35.180 Now, if you can show me that it increases patriotism and that it's likely to really sink in and help kids be loyal and patriotic citizens,

00:03:44.780 then maybe I'll change my mind, but I don't think it has that effect.

00:03:47.520 I don't think you can show me that.

00:03:49.020 I don't think that that's really been the trend of things.

00:03:52.640 In fact, it seems like patriotism has been sort of plummeting, even though kids are forced to say the Pledge.

00:03:59.720 I'm not saying that saying the Pledge causes the patriotism to plummet,

00:04:02.480 but what I am saying is I don't think there's any evidence that forcing kids to say the Pledge is likely to instill patriotism in them.

00:04:09.280 I think it has no effect one way or another.

00:04:10.940 And by definition, a Pledge of Loyalty and Fidelity that you're forced to say, a Pledge of Appreciation for Freedom,

00:04:22.080 which you are compelled to say, seems rather counterintuitive.

00:04:26.160 Because when you say to a kid, stand and pledge your loyalty or you'll be expelled,

00:04:31.340 it seems unlikely that the Pledge will then mean anything because then they're just doing what they have to do.

00:04:37.200 They're doing what they're told.

00:04:37.940 But vows and pledges which are compelled are not really, therefore, vows or pledges.

00:04:45.320 They are just words that you were forced to say, and so you said them.

00:04:51.780 Two, I don't like the Pledge of Allegiance because it says one nation, indivisible.

00:04:58.020 Now, one nation under God, the under God part I like. 0.96

00:05:01.480 Indivisible I don't like.

00:05:02.500 Now, I don't mean to get into semantics, but the nation is not actually indivisible.

00:05:09.600 I believe that states have the right, or ought to have the right, to secede if they like.

00:05:17.140 Because the state of California, for instance, if they want to secede, well, California is not owned by the federal government.

00:05:24.080 The federal government doesn't own California, doesn't own the people of California, doesn't own California itself.

00:05:30.240 California entered into the union by choice.

00:05:32.740 It should have the choice to leave if it wants to.

00:05:35.280 I kind of hope it does, but that's beside the point.

00:05:40.560 So, indivisible to me.

00:05:42.300 In fact, the Pledge of Allegiance was originally written, a lot of people don't know this, the Pledge of Allegiance was written by a guy named Francis Bellamy, who was a socialist.

00:05:53.640 Okay, so this was a socialist idea to have everybody getting up and forced to say, you know, the pledge, one nation, indivisible.

00:06:01.820 This was a socialist idea to begin with, and I think you can kind of see why.

00:06:05.720 So, that's my feeling on the pledge.

00:06:10.060 But, second, this is where I start to win back maybe some conservatives, who knows.

00:06:15.220 Here's my second point.

00:06:18.440 Even though I'm not a big fan of the pledge at school, I think that kids ought to stand for it.

00:06:25.140 Although I don't necessarily think the pledge accomplishes anything, I think as long as it's being recited, kids should stand for it.

00:06:31.640 Now, as an adult who's not in public school, I have the right to, you know, I can make my own decisions about the pledge.

00:06:38.140 I can do what I want.

00:06:39.640 But children in school should be required to obey.

00:06:44.000 You know, that's my main issue with kids who don't stand for the pledge.

00:06:47.340 It's not that they're being unpatriotic because, as I said, forced expressions of patriotism are not really patriotism.

00:06:54.260 But the issue to me is that they're being disobedient and that they're calling attention to themselves and they're refusing to respect the authority of the people who are in charge of them at school.

00:07:03.800 That, to me, is the issue.

00:07:05.380 It is disobedience.

00:07:07.100 So, we have somewhere along the line, we've completely lost sight of this idea of obedience and respect for your elders.

00:07:14.160 And, listen, I know that since time immemorial, adults have been complaining that kids don't respect their elders and don't listen.

00:07:20.280 But now we seem to have categorically kind of rejected, given up on the very idea of kids being required to obey.

00:07:29.540 And this has a lot to do with parents.

00:07:31.320 So, you have parents who send their kids to school and the kid is disobedient, disrespectful, defiant.

00:07:36.660 And then the parents find out about it and they side with their kid against the adults.

00:07:43.300 These parents, they want to have it both ways.

00:07:45.120 They want the school system to babysit their kids, but they don't want the school system to have any authority over their kids.

00:07:51.560 You can't do that.

00:07:52.500 If you're putting your kid under the authority of the school system, then the kid must be required to respect that authority.

00:08:00.160 And you, if you're a good parent, should tell your kid that.

00:08:04.800 My kids, you know, they know that when they're being watched by a babysitter or if they're going to Nana and Grandpa's house or if they're ever in the custody of some adult who is not mommy or daddy, they know because we tell them that those adults now have the authority of mommy and daddy.

00:08:25.960 And they are to listen and they are to obey.

00:08:29.360 And if the babysitter tells us that the kids were being disrespectful, we're not going to take the kid's side.

00:08:35.920 You know, in fact, my wife and I came home from a date night a few weeks ago and the babysitter told us that our daughter screamed at her and stomped out of the room for some reason or another.

00:08:45.620 And so I went upstairs and my daughter was already in bed and I got her out of bed and I marched her downstairs and I made her apologize to the babysitter.

00:08:56.880 I didn't take her side. 0.56

00:08:59.260 I didn't say, well, honey, why did you stomp out of the room and scream at the bed? 0.98

00:09:02.720 Oh, she was mean to you?

00:09:03.980 Well, then it's OK.

00:09:05.100 I'm going to make her apologize to you.

00:09:08.480 No, I didn't do that because I'm not a horrible parent.

00:09:10.940 But I entrusted my child into the care of this babysitter.

00:09:16.600 And so now it's my responsibility to back up the babysitter.

00:09:21.160 And to take her side.

00:09:22.840 And that's how it should be with school, too.

00:09:25.120 When I went to public school, my parents were very clear that I was to listen to my teacher, do as I was told, be respectful.

00:09:31.860 And now I didn't always fulfill that obligation.

00:09:34.120 OK, I but when I failed to fulfill it, which frankly was pretty often, my parents almost always took the teacher's side against me.

00:09:44.440 And rightly so.

00:09:46.820 This student, from what I read, disobeyed her teachers, refused to stand some 200 times.

00:09:52.680 OK, this was consistent defiance of the people who were in charge of her.

00:09:56.980 And no, she does not have a right to defy them.

00:10:01.000 She has to do what she's told.

00:10:04.800 Because she's a kid and she's at school and they're in charge of her.

00:10:10.300 And that's what her parents should be telling her.

00:10:12.940 They should be telling her, oh, you have.

00:10:14.160 OK, you don't like the pledge.

00:10:15.460 That's you know, we could talk about that.

00:10:17.040 You have interesting ideas.

00:10:18.340 That's fine.

00:10:19.860 But when you're at school, you do what you're told.

00:10:24.320 Third point.

00:10:25.020 People say this is a free speech thing.

00:10:28.920 Kids have free speech in school.

00:10:31.980 Well, no, they don't.

00:10:34.380 Actually.

00:10:35.920 Public. 1.00

00:10:36.400 This idea that kids have just have blanket free speech in school is so stupid. 1.00

00:10:42.720 It's so crazy. 1.00

00:10:44.120 Public schools are government institutions.

00:10:46.620 You are sending your kid to a government building and trusting them into the care of government employees.

00:10:52.540 You are handing over your kids to whatever programs, whatever rules, whatever systems this government institution has in place.

00:11:00.320 Don't like it.

00:11:01.540 Don't send them to public school.

00:11:03.700 But if you send them there, you can't then go on about their freedoms and their rights.

00:11:08.000 They are children who you as the parent have put under the authority of this government institution.

00:11:16.720 So they do not have the right to do whatever they want, say whatever they want, make whatever statements they want.

00:11:21.740 They don't have that right.

00:11:23.740 They don't have it.

00:11:24.960 Now, even if they weren't in public school, they still wouldn't have the right to do and say whatever they want.

00:11:34.240 Children do not have full free speech rights.

00:11:37.780 Children, because they are not yet emancipated, are always under the authority of someone, whether it's a parent, a teacher, a guardian, a babysitter, whatever.

00:11:46.640 And those authority figures have the right and the power to require the children to do things and not do things.

00:11:55.800 Now, obviously, if those things that they're being required to do are criminal or immoral, then children have the right to disobey.

00:12:05.480 But barring that, children must obey.

00:12:10.100 My kids do not have free speech in my house, okay?

00:12:14.760 My house is not a democracy.

00:12:17.220 They don't have equal rights. 0.99

00:12:18.880 They don't have free speech rights.

00:12:20.720 They don't have First Amendment rights.

00:12:22.140 They don't have Second.

00:12:22.800 They don't have Third.

00:12:23.400 They don't have any of the Amendment rights in my house.

00:12:25.080 None of them.

00:12:25.700 I got news for you because it's my house.

00:12:29.640 You know, and so they have to listen.

00:12:35.660 My kids don't.

00:12:36.820 I have free speech in my house.

00:12:38.220 My wife has free speech. 1.00

00:12:40.100 Our kids, because they are our kids, and we're in charge of them, and we own the house, and we own everything, because of that, they're required to obey. 0.97

00:12:50.100 So if my daughter calls my son a little dumb boy, which she did this morning, by the way. 0.98

00:12:56.460 My son came running upstairs because my daughter had called him a little dumb boy. 1.00

00:13:00.960 But, and in fact, she called him dumb. 0.99

00:13:07.380 This is like a thing she, you know, we're trying to break her of this habit. 0.99

00:13:10.140 She's getting in the habit of calling him dumb. 1.00

00:13:11.520 And a few days ago, she called him dumb. 0.99

00:13:15.300 And, and I, and I said to her, why did you say that? 0.99

00:13:18.380 Which is a dumb question on my part. 0.89

00:13:19.620 It's just like instinctive. 0.82

00:13:20.760 But I said, why did you, why did you say that? 0.98

00:13:22.620 Why did you call him dumb? 1.00

00:13:23.460 And she said, because he was acting dumb. 0.99

00:13:25.760 And I wanted to say, okay, well, all right, fair enough. 0.99

00:13:30.900 But anyway, so she called my, you know, she called her brother a little dumb boy. 0.95

00:13:34.900 And, and, and so I, you know, we had to talk to her about that. 0.96

00:13:39.780 She can't claim that it's her First Amendment right to say that.

00:13:46.080 The First Amendment is irrelevant.

00:13:48.260 She has no right to say that to her brother.

00:13:51.940 You know what, you know why she has no right to say that to her brother?

00:13:54.060 Because we, as the parents have told her, she's not allowed to say that.

00:13:57.800 And so she does, she gets punished.

00:14:00.000 That's how it works with kids.

00:14:01.920 So all these people that are, you know, talking about free speech.

00:14:04.960 I mean, do you really, is that how you parent?

00:14:07.460 Do you really parent according to the bill of rights with your kids?

00:14:12.980 Um, no.

00:14:15.480 Kids have to listen and obey.

00:14:18.260 Because they're kids.

00:14:19.740 They don't have all the same rights because they don't have the same responsibilities.

00:14:24.860 As an adult, you're, you pay taxes.

00:14:28.080 You, uh, you know, you, you have the ability to, to own things.

00:14:32.940 You, you have a job.

00:14:34.680 Um, and, and also you can, if you commit a crime, you can go to prison for the rest of your life.

00:14:41.940 You know, you're tried as an adult.

00:14:43.180 So there are all these different responsibilities and things that you face as an adult.

00:14:47.120 And so there are certain rights that come along with those.

00:14:50.200 But as a child, you have really no legal responsibilities whatsoever.

00:14:55.940 Uh, you own nothing.

00:14:57.320 You do nothing.

00:14:58.720 Right?

00:14:59.380 You're, you're always under the authority of someone.

00:15:02.720 You're, you're always under the direct authority of someone.

00:15:05.700 And so therefore you don't have all the same rights.

00:15:10.120 This idea that kids can just go to school and they can just say whatever they want, make

00:15:15.320 whatever statements they want, do whatever they want.

00:15:18.060 That's chaos.

00:15:19.100 If that, if we actually, if schools actually operated that way, well, then schools would

00:15:24.700 not be able to operate.

00:15:25.720 We may as well just get rid of the school system and have no schools anymore because it's just

00:15:29.360 not possible for a school to function that way.

00:15:32.240 Kids must be forced and compelled to listen and obey.

00:15:37.180 And as a parent, again, if you're a good parent and you're sending your kid to school, you should

00:15:42.560 be telling your kid that.

00:15:43.740 Now I know for me, you know, when I was a kid, if I disobeyed my parents, I got in big

00:15:50.220 trouble.

00:15:51.120 But if I disobeyed an adult who, who my parents had entrusted me to, if I disobeyed them, I

00:15:57.040 got in even more trouble for that because my parents saw it as, you know, it's, it's defiance

00:16:03.240 and it's also an embarrassment to them.

00:16:05.160 They feel like they're being embarrassed by my behavior.

00:16:07.680 And so I'd get even more trouble.

00:16:09.420 I just don't understand these parents who say, well, you're not my kid's parent.

00:16:15.320 You don't have any authority.

00:16:16.760 Well, if you don't want the, if you don't want the teachers to have any authority over

00:16:20.020 your kid, don't send them to school. 0.95

00:16:23.120 You better keep them home and homeschool them if you don't want any teachers to have authority

00:16:27.100 over your kid.

00:16:28.000 But if you send them there and you're using the school system as a babysitter, well, then

00:16:32.460 there are certain things that come along with that.

00:16:34.460 And it means that your kid has to listen.

00:16:36.000 So, yeah, you know what?

00:16:40.200 We, we can talk about the Pledge of Allegiance.

00:16:42.380 I, we can have an academic conversation about it.

00:16:44.380 We can have an interesting conversation and, you know, I, we can express our opinions about

00:16:49.780 it, but, um, in school, if this is what the teacher tells you to do, then you should do

00:16:56.200 it because it's not immoral.

00:16:57.620 It's not illegal.

00:16:58.280 Um, so you stand and you listen and you obey.

00:17:05.840 So that's my feeling about this.

00:17:08.340 I mean, and then as far as expelling a kid for not saying the pledge, you know, that to

00:17:13.040 me seems rather extreme.

00:17:15.280 I'm not a big fan of, of, of that.

00:17:17.120 But then again, um, if it's a rule and she's not listening and she's had 200 chances, what

00:17:24.540 are you supposed to do at a certain point?

00:17:28.300 So, all right.

00:17:30.600 Um, we'll leave it there, but I'll be interested to, um, read, uh, some of your comments because

00:17:35.240 I think it's an interesting conversation.

00:17:38.220 Thanks for listening.

00:17:39.160 Thanks for watching.

00:17:40.020 Godspeed.

The Matt Walsh Show - September 26, 2018

Ep. 111 - Should Students Be Allowed To Sit During The Pledge Of Allegiance？

Episode Stats

Summary

Transcript