The Matt Walsh Show - Ep. 1452 - Matt Walsh Sits Down With ＂Hate Crime Hoax＂ Author

00:00:00.000 All right. We're joined by Wilford Riley. He's a college professor, author of the book,

00:00:05.840 Hate Crime Hoax, How the Left is Selling a Fake Race War. But if you've seen the new film,

00:00:11.300 Am I Racist, playing now in theaters, get tickets at miracist.com. Then you also know him as one of

00:00:18.400 the only voices of sanity in the movie. In fact, of the, I guess we'd say expert class, the academics

00:00:24.780 and so on that we talked to, the only voice of sanity in that group. And the two of us went head

00:00:30.440 to head in an intellectual bout in that film, a bout that I'm sorry to say I probably lost,

00:00:38.260 I can now admit. But he's here now. Wilford, great to see you again.

00:00:44.040 Yeah, great to be on the show, Matt.

00:00:47.200 So I wanted to talk about a lot of, several different things, issues that the movie deals

00:00:52.720 with and that, and that you've dealt with a lot in your career that your book deals with. But

00:00:56.820 before we get into any of that, this is sort of a unique opportunity to interview someone else

00:01:02.900 about my own movie, which is interesting because there are things about the scene that we recorded

00:01:09.040 together, we filmed together that I actually don't know from your perspective because I wasn't involved

00:01:14.300 in the kind of booking side of things. So here's my question. I know that you knew who I was because

00:01:20.980 we had followed each other on Twitter for probably years before this, but that's all I know about

00:01:28.140 your perspective on this. So what was kind of like going through your mind when we were sparring back

00:01:33.480 and forth and I was in my dumb wig? What was that from your perspective?

00:01:37.880 I mean, I assumed that we were doing a sort of Borat style setup. I mean, I think we're both offhand

00:01:44.160 pretty funny. I mean, so it was just being aware of that, but also sincerely answering the questions.

00:01:50.280 I mean, they were good questions, actually. How many hate crimes are there per year? Is there a

00:01:55.200 wave of interracial or hate crime that's certainly white on black, but even that's black on white? 0.59

00:02:01.440 Is that going on? Those are things that are really out there in the discourse. And it was really

00:02:05.660 interesting to respond as kind of the conservative consultant to that. But I mean, when you came in,

00:02:12.620 it's pretty obvious this is Matt Walsh in a wig as someone who's in a right-leaning business space.

00:02:17.900 So you, you kind of know what this is, you know, you, and that was, that was my assumption,

00:02:23.160 but you just, you didn't go along with it. The theme was great for the movie.

00:02:26.680 What did you think of the wig? Cause Robin DiAngelo says it was ill fitting. I thought,

00:02:30.400 I thought it fit pretty well. I mean, it's an expensive wig. The wig's getting a hard time

00:02:35.800 from the audience, but you, so you, you didn't buy the wig at all.

00:02:41.560 Well, I mean, I didn't, I didn't buy the wig because I knew it was you. Um, I mean, you often

00:02:46.600 could have grown my hair out for all you know. Yeah, but it, it, it was, it was, it did not look

00:02:54.300 like that was what had happened. It wasn't a bad wig actually. I mean, I, I read Robin DiAngelo's,

00:02:59.840 uh, response, which is called something like about that movie. Um, and I, I think there's a,

00:03:06.240 there's a kind of attempt to downplay how silly she ended up looking in the movie. I mean, 0.62

00:03:11.080 as everyone in the audience now knows, she paid reparations to one of the guys just on the daily

00:03:16.340 wire staff. I think Ben, I mean, she reaches in her purse to give them $30 or something like that.

00:03:20.740 So when you're, you're exposed like this, she ended up deleting her own Twitter.

00:03:24.840 You're probably going to throw out as many criticisms as possible. I thought the wig was good,

00:03:28.400 but it didn't make me think that you were, you were somebody else. No.

00:03:32.260 All right. I'll take that as a C plus. We'll give it a C plus C plus wig. Uh, have you, uh,

00:03:36.400 have you gotten, what's the reaction been like in your own life to people, uh, that maybe have

00:03:41.140 seen the movie? Have you gotten recognized at all? Anything like that?

00:03:44.640 Yeah, I've gotten recognized a few times. Um, I live in the Kentucky state Capitol,

00:03:48.620 which is a small city, but where, I mean, the, the state house is a block down the street.

00:03:54.000 National politicians will often come there to negotiate deals and so on.

00:03:58.000 So like the gym I go to occasionally has just send me famous people wandering around and I,

00:04:03.360 I, in environments like that, I sometimes get recognized that's happened more after the movie,

00:04:07.960 but no one's particularly impressed. Um, it's the kind of environment where everyone would pretend

00:04:13.040 not to be, even if they were. So it's just like, Oh, you're that guy. Uh, the reaction I've gotten

00:04:18.080 on Twitter and Facebook from the, the audience in general has been very positive actually,

00:04:24.480 because I think the thing with both of your films, both of which I've watched was that 0.99

00:04:29.040 most people in the quote unquote expert class end up looking like idiots, which is obviously one of 0.99

00:04:33.980 the points of the movie. I mean, in, uh, what is a woman? There's very famously, uh, some kind of 0.99

00:04:39.360 academic that compares, uh, humans to chickens and says, well, sure you can sex a chicken, you know,

00:04:46.960 female has a cloaca, but does a chicken commit suicide? Does a chicken fry? Um, and there was

00:04:53.360 a lot of that in this movie as well. Uh, the Moana scene sticks in mind. So, I mean, most people that

00:04:58.480 saw me were kind of just like, Oh, that's that guy on Twitter that, you know, teaches and does

00:05:03.680 consulting and so on down the line. He seems pretty normal, which, which was good. I think that would

00:05:07.840 be an advantage you'd have if you were coming from the right, which I think is where the correct 0.69

00:05:12.080 position on this dwells, uh, in, in a piece like that. So the reaction has been good. If you haven't

00:05:17.420 seen my new, uh, movie, am I racist? You need to, one of the most important things I learned about

00:05:22.400 anti-racism during the film is that you have to look the part, which is why I'm excited to introduce

00:05:27.900 the official am I racist movie merch collection over at dailywire.com slash shop. There's a, uh,

00:05:36.000 t-shirt, which I have here, which is proudly displaying my DEI certification so that you can

00:05:42.560 let everyone know that I'm at Walsh and DEI certified and here to help. So you're not,

00:05:47.180 not, you're not displaying your own certification, but mine, um, which, you know, that could open doors

00:05:51.620 for you. There's also a, um, this one I like as a big fan of dad jokes. This is like the ultimate dad

00:05:57.500 because it's the pun and it's diehard. There's a DEI heart, which I could be taken the wrong way.

00:06:04.780 There's a DEI hard t-shirt that you'll, uh, that'll make you say yippee-ki-yay mother or race

00:06:11.000 hustler. Sorry. Oh, race hustler. Uh, that's there. I like that one. That's a nice pun. Plus you can 0.98

00:06:16.360 get the all new am I racist party game that makes you and your friends do the work to figure out

00:06:23.720 where you all, where you all are in your anti-racist journeys. Uh, this is a very important

00:06:29.060 game. A lot of fun also. So go to dailywire.com slash shop to shop the collection today.

00:06:34.780 Uh, and also it's, even for me watching the movie back, uh, of course I've seen it a million

00:06:41.080 times through the editing process, but watching it in a totally finished form in a theater at

00:06:45.900 the premiere, uh, it's also refreshing because by the time that you appear in the film, we've

00:06:52.920 heard so much nonsense. Uh, it's, and then, and then to get just like someone saying things

00:06:59.760 that are obviously true. Uh, I think it's very refreshing. You can kind of, I could feel

00:07:05.260 that in the theater is almost like a, a breath of fresh air to just, just have someone have

00:07:10.780 a little glimmer of light in the midst of all that. I think that's also happening there.

00:07:15.560 Well, I, I think we all feel that way sometimes just as middle-class or upper middle-class citizens.

00:07:20.260 Like I, even I sometimes as someone who's in this field wonder, like, could I be wrong about

00:07:25.060 these obvious things? There seems to be such a mass of people that are saying absolutely

00:07:30.660 crazy stuff. Like men can be women. I think that's the obvious one, but just going on beyond

00:07:36.620 that. I mean, during COVID, uh, not learning and you see a little bit of this on the right

00:07:41.320 too, but not learning and not studying doesn't affect your performance on IQ tests. Just things

00:07:46.400 that seem objectively insane. America is one of the most racially fraught countries on earth and

00:07:53.020 you go to a high school football game. So there's this, there's this presentation that almost everyone

00:07:57.820 seems to be nodding along to that's obviously not real. And that creates a real dichotomy in the minds

00:08:05.180 of many people. I mean, the equivalent would be hundreds of years ago being taught a false version

00:08:11.000 of religion or some bizarre heresy by the government and being forced to go along with this. I think

00:08:15.960 that's a very close parallel. And then I suppose most people did as well. You wouldn't want the

00:08:21.500 punishments that came along with rejecting it. But I mean, I, I think that there, and this is,

00:08:26.060 I guess, a message almost for the audience. Like there's a facility of logic that human beings have.

00:08:30.320 It's one of the first classes you take at any decent college, including my own. Um, and it's this

00:08:35.560 ability to logically analyze that makes it possible to serve on juries and question professional

00:08:40.160 prosecutors to write op-eds that go to a major local paper that a hundred thousand people read,

00:08:45.520 to submit to what we call interdisciplinary journals, an academic who's fairly good.

00:08:49.800 I can write in any field from willing to take criticism that comes from an inherent ability

00:08:54.260 humans have. So when you see people saying things that are nonsense and you yourself are not an idiot, 0.95

00:09:00.460 you're a country lawyer, a housewife with six kids, or someone else who has responsibility in your 0.99

00:09:04.720 life. The question isn't, am I going crazy? It's why is this person saying something that's

00:09:10.860 objectively not real? And that's, that's a fascinating question. And it's a very tough

00:09:15.700 question to answer. So, but I think that when someone says, and we've probably both been in

00:09:20.320 this role, but when someone says, look, what you're saying just isn't true, you know, how do you know

00:09:25.600 that people are male or female? I mean, the gametic analysis is what we use for horses in Kentucky.

00:09:31.460 Like when someone says something like that, I do think that people often sort of gasp and say,

00:09:35.520 yes, thank God that's true. And then you return to the question of why are people saying the thing

00:09:40.900 that's false, which is, is interesting to me. Yeah. I think that, um, segues into my, my question

00:09:49.040 is we move away from the movie itself and some of the issues that it addresses. Why do you think

00:09:56.560 people like Robin DiAngelo and, uh, her ilk, the, what I would call the race hustlers, 0.77

00:10:03.740 how do they get to a point of such cultural power in, in your view, given that, uh, when you

00:10:11.280 actually sit down and talk to Robin DiAngelo, as I obviously have, or you read her book as

00:10:15.960 unfortunately I did, it's, it's so vapid. It's so ridiculous. Um, there's really, I actually picked 0.98

00:10:24.440 up her book and I read it almost hoping for my own sake, cause I have to read this whole damn thing.

00:10:29.120 I was like hoping that maybe I'd find a couple of, a couple of interesting insights in there.

00:10:32.700 Like maybe there'd be a few moments where I could say, okay, well, that was an interesting

00:10:36.360 point or she has a point there. And what I found is honest to God, not a single, that didn't happen

00:10:40.320 a single time. It was just utter drivel. So, and yet she, and this is changing now for her for a 0.95

00:10:47.680 couple of different reasons, but she got to a point of great cultural influence and power 1.00

00:10:51.240 and people like her, uh, Ibram X. Kendi being another one before his downfall. So how does that,

00:10:56.420 how does that happen? How did they get to this point?

00:10:57.920 It's a, it's a fascinating question. I mean, that might be the topic of my next book,

00:11:03.480 depending on what the publisher's offers look like. It's going to be either that or a book

00:11:07.000 called Panda bears about why young people can't seem to mate and marry. But I mean,

00:11:10.860 your show actually played a role in inspiring that title. Um, but yeah, the Panda bears one would be

00:11:17.920 funny. I mean, and I, that actually is one where I would go do interviews and things like that. I mean,

00:11:21.760 I read recently that, uh, don't overstate this, but 47% of young men, um, this is true across

00:11:28.320 Republicans, Democrats, Christians, other faiths, whatever, have never asked a woman on a date.

00:11:32.660 Young men goes up to 25. So there's a lot of criticism of feminism and the like, and some

00:11:37.400 of that's legitimate, but there's also, you're failing in the most basic kind of male role in

00:11:42.360 that situation, which, you know, Fox has managed to figure out. So why, and I want to sit down with a

00:11:47.400 panel of guys and a panel of women and possibly even have my fiance host that one and just go and 0.99

00:11:52.760 ask them. And I'm genuinely curious, but to, to answer your question, which is why is nonsense

00:11:58.580 prevalent? First of all, I think it's important to realize that the default for humans isn't sharp

00:12:03.760 wit in a capitalist liberal democracy. This I think is one of the points that Tom soul made over the

00:12:09.160 years. It was like, it was so important that the default for humanity in Europe and West Africa

00:12:14.780 and China everywhere was grinding poverty under a cane, you know, and part of that generally was

00:12:21.280 believing nonsense. I don't mean to single out any one religion, but I mean, I don't believe that

00:12:26.400 traditional Hindu theology happens to be accurate. I mean, I would assume that in thousands of

00:12:33.360 traditional schools across the great nation of India, people are taught this. It's assumed that

00:12:37.520 there is an instrumental social value to them learning it and people believe it, you know? So it's

00:12:42.720 the idea that people believe things that may or may not be true. The traditional hierarchy of

00:12:48.300 the races, when that was perhaps necessary to justify conquest, so on down the line, that's nothing

00:12:53.120 new. That's, that's a constant. Why do people believe that? Because there's a tendency on the part

00:12:59.800 of people, and I don't even know if believe is the word, but to obey the things that are told to them by

00:13:05.500 reasonably competent leaders in order to get along in society. The, the deeper question though,

00:13:12.300 is why this particular mythology took off the anti-racist and queer theory, all of the, I'm kind

00:13:22.340 of stumbling here, but all this stuff that we see now, I think that there are a number of reasons

00:13:27.300 declining belief in anything traditional is one of them. But a big one simply is that this stuff to me,

00:13:34.960 all the down road Marxist stuff is an endemic disease of capitalist competitive society.

00:13:40.480 When you see what's a pretty fair system, like American SAT testing, produce wildly disparate

00:13:47.820 results. Or last year, Native Americans brought up the rear, got a 912. Asians were ahead of everyone, 1.00

00:13:53.840 including whites with a 1250. When you see a gap like that, it's very tempting to think that the 0.59

00:13:59.180 fair system is in fact unfair and start coming up with explanations as to why. So Kendi and D'Angelo

00:14:05.780 actually have a very simple kind of bear trap mythology that they've made up. That's incredibly

00:14:12.380 tempting to midwits. And the idea is basically there are two possible explanations for large

00:14:18.260 group differences in performance. One is genetic inferiority, which nobody really wants to believe

00:14:24.580 in. People might accept that there are 2% differences in mathematical ability or foot speed or something,

00:14:29.920 but no one wants to believe that causes the 300 point gap. And it almost certainly doesn't.

00:14:33.680 But the other alternative, according to them, is racism. So Kendi will just ask during his

00:14:38.140 presentations, which do you believe? Do you believe there's something wrong with black people and no

00:14:41.640 hands grow up? Do you believe that it has to be systems then? Every hand goes up. The reality, 0.92

00:14:46.280 of course, is that there are dozens of things in between, like culture. But I think in our society,

00:14:50.360 we're a diverse society that produces strengths and weaknesses. We're looking at these very large gaps. 1.00

00:14:56.900 And this crap provided an instrumental explanation for these gaps that wasn't as awkward as single 0.97

00:15:02.740 mothers are likely to produce failures as such. Or, you know, study time is critical for performance 1.00

00:15:08.260 on tests. You could simply say this. And this became very popular. And because it involved kind

00:15:14.080 of uplifting people, it became a quasi-religion for a lot of Americans. I think that's kind of the

00:15:19.020 three-part process there. What is a wireless company? No, it shouldn't be a big data company. No,

00:15:25.060 it shouldn't be a political action campaign. And no, a wireless company shouldn't make you believe

00:15:29.360 that you only have two options for data, unlimited or unlimited. And both are stupidly expensive. 0.99

00:15:34.820 A wireless company, pure and simple, should connect you to the people and things that you love. 0.90

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00:15:53.380 but unfortunately, they're not. So you should switch right now. And if you do,

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00:16:22.500 And also, I wonder if this is part of it, going with the racism explanation also means that you

00:16:31.060 don't have to actually do anything about it. Because ultimately, it's a non-fixable situation.

00:16:39.660 I mean, they say America's inherently racist. I asked Robin DiAngelo in the movie,

00:16:43.640 is it even possible to be not racist? She says, well, in any given moment, you can be less racist

00:16:47.740 or more racist, talking about white people, of course. But you can never be not racist. And

00:16:52.660 even in her, as you say, mythology, which is the way of putting it, it's like in any given moment,

00:16:57.340 your racism fluctuates wildly. Which is, if you believe that, it's quite hopeless. So I wonder

00:17:02.600 if part of it also is, if you chalk it up to, even though they have their ideas for policies and

00:17:07.780 laws and all that kind of stuff, but really, if you chalk it up to racism, then you don't actually

00:17:12.080 have to do anything about it. And certainly, on the individual level, there's not anything any

00:17:16.280 individual person really needs to do, because you're just kind of waiting around for the system

00:17:20.880 to fix it, which it never will. Well, first of all, I think that last point is extremely

00:17:28.160 important. When you get into left-wing ideas, or yeah, contemporary left-wing ideas is a fair way to

00:17:33.420 put it, about racism, even about environmentalism, what they're doing is changing the definition of

00:17:39.280 the thing so that you can't improve yourself and fix 90% of the thing. So, I mean, you know,

00:17:44.600 I pick up my trash, you know, I go camping, I fish, I hate people that throw junk on the ground.

00:17:49.200 That, to me, is what environmental concern is. You know, if you go out in the woods, you take a

00:17:55.240 shovel, you clean your stuff up. That's not what environmental activism means, if you've ever read

00:18:01.380 anything current from Greenpeace or the Sierra Club. They start by talking about, like, large systems

00:18:07.240 led by the USA in the West and China in the East that rely on models of late capitalism.

00:18:12.660 So, environmentalism becomes sort of a vague concern about the world that you can displace

00:18:18.960 your empathy onto. It's the same thing with racism. Racism is individual dislike of other

00:18:23.980 races. In the quantitative social sciences, where we actually have to conclude things or get fired,

00:18:29.140 that's what it means. You can measure it quite easily. On a 1 to 10 scale, how warm do you feel

00:18:34.060 toward interracial marriage? I'd say about a 7. I don't really care what people do. I may have a very 1.00

00:18:38.880 slight preference for my own group, but you can measure that. Most people have taken tests of this

00:18:42.880 kind. But that's not what Ibram Kendi means by racism. What he means by racism, as closely as I

00:18:50.460 can parse out, is any system that produces disparate results between any groups, most of which results

00:18:56.820 can never be fixed because, in fact, the cause isn't racism. So you're right about that. So racism

00:19:01.740 becomes sin would be a good way to think about it. Like, if you're born into certain groups,

00:19:06.180 you're capable of racism. And if you're born into other groups, although you can be equally

00:19:09.620 prejudiced, you're not. So your job is not just being less racist, hiring 10 percent black guys on 0.56

00:19:16.100 the job site. It is recognizing the sin within yourself, apologizing, shaming yourself in public 0.67

00:19:23.100 meetings. And it's easy to see why this appeals to a certain kind of masochistic, perhaps especially

00:19:28.380 female, upper middle class person. In my opinion. Yeah, you said something there. You gave the

00:19:35.120 answer a question I was going to ask a few questions down the line, which is what is

00:19:41.240 racism? And you gave a definition there that I that I also that's the definition I would give

00:19:47.320 because it's pretty simple and straightforward. It seems intuitively correct. I think it's how

00:19:52.000 everybody would have defined racism up until very recently. But that's one of the interesting

00:19:58.620 things in making the movie. Am I racist is that we could have actually called the movie. What is

00:20:03.680 racism? There's a whole other movie we could have made where I'm only going around and asking that

00:20:09.160 question to these race activists? Just they're anti-racist. They define themselves as anti-racist.

00:20:16.340 Well, what even is racism? And that is a question that I did ask in the course of many of these

00:20:22.740 interviews. And we and it was a very what is a woman like experience where they didn't want to 0.91

00:20:29.400 answer it. And I was a little surprised by that. I thought that I knew they wouldn't give the answer

00:20:34.320 to racism that you just gave. I knew they'd have a different definition, but I thought they'd have

00:20:38.620 a definition ready to go. But they didn't. They they they really didn't want to be nailed down to have

00:20:45.500 to give any kind of discernible definition for what racism is. Well, I mean, what do you make of that?

00:20:52.160 Well, what I make of that is that a lot of these people are brifters that want to call everything 1.00

00:20:55.680 racist. I mean, so when you see. So, again, just common sense for the audience. When you see

00:21:00.660 someone engaging in behavior that looks kind of grifty, that doesn't seem to make a lot of coherent

00:21:06.700 sense, there are essentially two possibilities. One is that you've encountered a genius that is

00:21:11.740 substantially smarter than your own 115 or whatever IQ. And you just can't understand this brilliant,

00:21:18.600 you know, venerable bead level individual. And the other thing is that you're being BS'd and it's

00:21:24.100 exactly what you you think it might be that happens to be going on very frequently. And I don't want

00:21:31.300 to give an R-rated example here, but I was reading the joke here would be, you know, every day I read

00:21:36.780 20 pages of Cosmopolitan magazine, the Holy Quran or Karl Marx, Know Your Enemy. But I actually did

00:21:42.920 glance at an issue of Cosmo that people were debating online. And one of the articles

00:21:49.480 a couple of months ago was titled, Men Are Making Women Orgasm As Much As Vice Versa Now,

00:21:57.280 Here's Why That's Bad. And the subtitle was, So Your Husband Really Cares About Pleasing You.

00:22:03.360 Of course he does. It's all about him. And this feminist author went on to explain about how men

00:22:08.400 are competitive, aggressive creatures and we're still brutes and so on. And I mean, I was reading

00:22:12.220 this and laughing, but I could easily imagine multiple ex-partners from the Chicago legal and,

00:22:17.340 you know, Salesforce world actually taking this quite seriously. So the framework there, of course,

00:22:22.680 would be if you don't care about your wife's emotional and physical satisfaction, you're a 0.99

00:22:28.280 brutal savage. If you do care about your wife's emotional and physical satisfaction, you're a 0.97

00:22:32.720 brutal savage wearing a jacket. The framework of fourth wave feminism is you're always a brutal 1.00

00:22:37.720 savage and we should kill all the men. I mean, at a certain level past a certain point. It's the same 1.00

00:22:42.820 thing with racism. You know, if you flee a black neighborhood, you are engaging in white flight. 0.88

00:22:49.620 If you enter a black neighborhood, you're engaging in gentrification. So yeah, getting to the point, 0.99

00:22:55.300 I think that asking the question, what actually is racism would have gotten you the what is a woman

00:22:59.980 result where people dance and stammer and they're avoiding an easily available explanation. So what a

00:23:06.560 woman is to trans advocates is anyone who portrays sex stereotypes. That's that's if you have a couple of 0.98

00:23:12.060 beers with one. That's what they'll get down to. I always loved pink. I like kissing boys, that sort

00:23:16.840 of thing. Similarly to Ibram Kendi or someone like that, racism is any system that produces any

00:23:24.460 differences between any groups, because if it weren't for oppression, all people and probably all groups

00:23:31.380 would be exactly identical. That's pure blank slate ism. That goes back to Rich Delgado that goes back in

00:23:37.240 terms of actual scientists to Franz Boas. This is a thing that was said through the 60s, the 70s,

00:23:42.940 the 80s. Now that we can scan someone's brain, this is what Musk does with mirror link. We know

00:23:47.960 that's nonsense. Some brains are twice as big as others, but many people believe it. And that's the

00:23:52.440 root cause of this. As an undeniable authority on style, decor and home ambiance. I know you've all

00:23:58.820 wondered, Matt, where do you get your candles? No candle companies met my rigorous standards. So we had to

00:24:06.720 make one. My personal collection of candles is now available at the Candle Club, including the all

00:24:11.660 new seasonal scent, Autumn Bonfire. And there's a note in my prompter, which says, reference the

00:24:18.040 candle on your desk. So I guess I'm supposed to, I mean, you can see it, but I need to specifically

00:24:23.220 tell you, you see this, this is the candle I'm talking about. You can see the one, because I'm

00:24:29.160 talking about a candle and there's one on my desk, but you probably, you weren't connecting the dots.

00:24:32.600 So it's this, this one right here, which is reminiscent of crisp autumn nights by the fire

00:24:38.200 and a day's end done right. I assume this is the same one.

00:24:44.800 It does. It smells like an autumn, uh, autumn breeze or whatever. What is it supposed to smell

00:24:48.840 like? Oh, autumn bonfire. Yeah. It smells like, smells exactly like an autumn bonfire. As an added

00:24:56.020 bonus, the mug is reusable. Once you finish the candle, I shouldn't have to say this, but please

00:25:01.080 wash it with soap and warm water before drinking out of it. Head to the candle club.com to get my

00:25:06.440 candles and to become a member, get 20% off plus free shipping on every order right now as a founding

00:25:12.440 member, you'll get an exclusive box worth $115 limited quantities. Head to the candle club.com

00:25:18.320 to shop now while supplies last. Uh, yeah. And then you mentioned even next candy. And now I'm,

00:25:25.880 I'm just remembering that he actually, there's a famous video of him, uh, being asked what is,

00:25:30.680 what is racism from several years ago. And he kind of infamously gives this winding tortured

00:25:37.080 answer, but basically his answer is racism is racism. It was something like racism is any system

00:25:42.440 that produces racist results or something like that, which is again, not good.

00:25:48.600 Oh, sorry. But it, these questions are funny because they sound like people answering the most

00:25:56.280 complex stoic or Christian theological paradigms. Like what's the difference between God and the

00:26:01.240 Holy ghost or father and all the ghosts, something like that. But it's being done in the context of

00:26:05.800 what are the easiest to answer questions that have ever been designed by man. That's why it's

00:26:11.080 entertaining. So racism again is measurable dislike for members of other races. If I wanted to off the top

00:26:17.480 of the head, come up with a better definition right now, it would be believing inaccurately and to an

00:26:23.560 immoral degree and the genetic inferiority of one human population to another. And each component of

00:26:29.240 that would be important. It has to be to a serious level where it's interfering in business or similar

00:26:34.280 relationships. It has to be inaccurate. If I believe that pygmies are small and weak by adult white or black male 0.55

00:26:39.640 standards, that's not racist. Samoans are tend to be larger guys. That's not racist, you know, and so on

00:26:45.480 down the line has to be genetic. So I think that's what people mean by racism. Kendi can't answer that

00:26:50.600 because obviously the majority of gaps in modern life aren't explained by that. So when Kendi says

00:26:56.600 something like the SAT is racist against minorities, or even I understand why whites would think the

00:27:03.560 college admissions process is racist. I'm surprised to see him admit what he means by racist is this thing

00:27:08.680 that we clearly just defined, but he's not going to admit. He's not going to say any system that treats

00:27:13.560 anyone differently is racist because then he sounds like a nutcase. 0.98

00:27:17.800 Yeah. 0.98

00:27:18.120 Yeah.

00:27:18.680 Uh, but I, so here's a simple question and maybe it's not so simple. Maybe, uh, maybe there's not

00:27:26.280 an answer for the, that you can give, but, uh, how with all this stuff factored in and these race

00:27:34.600 hustlers doing what they do, uh, what do you think race relations? And you guys think it depends on how

00:27:40.280 you define that, but do you think race relations in this country are getting better or worse unchanged?

00:27:46.200 I mean, how do you assess that broadly speaking?

00:27:49.480 Well, one of the things about quantitative social science, and I'm not, I'm hardly here as a defender

00:27:53.800 of the current academy, but, um, in terms of quantitative political science or psychology or

00:27:58.760 something like that, most people don't need to access these paradigms. Most people don't need a

00:28:03.400 professional shrink, but a lot of the stuff we do actually is pretty empirical, pretty verifiable.

00:28:07.880 So how do you race relations are getting a lot worse? How do we know that? Because Pew about 0.66

00:28:12.520 30 years ago started doing a process where they asked people how they feel about race relations.

00:28:16.280 I think it's on the census now. So every couple of years we asked millions of people these questions.

00:28:21.000 And I mean, what we actually found is that I might get a couple of the years wrong by 1% here,

00:28:26.360 but going back to 1990, going back to that kind of Jordan B. Byrd era,

00:28:31.240 race relations were very good. And that's what you'd expect about 70% of white, 0.89

00:28:35.480 65% of blacks rated them as very good. And the, that tiny gap there probably does indicate there's

00:28:41.000 a little bit of racism still going on. You're not surprised to see the minority group be four 1.00

00:28:44.760 or five points below. But I mean, this wasn't exactly the era of slavery, even the deep South

00:28:51.080 desegregated in 1954, or at least began that process. So by the 1990s, most people felt that this

00:28:59.880 was kind of done. This is as far away in time as warfare against Hitler. I mean, we started,

00:29:06.120 we pulled troops out of Germany as the Marshall Plan began in 1951, we kept them in the West.

00:29:11.720 I mean, so that wasn't a concern of most people I grew up with in Chicago, whether they're Irish,

00:29:16.600 Italian, black, Hispanic, 70, 65. Now today, after years of this crap, you've seen a steady trend line 1.00

00:29:24.680 down. And the last I looked after the full BLM era, and now the somewhat justified, but the 0.97

00:29:32.680 Caucasian online response, mobs of black guys beating up white guys, after all this has been 0.73

00:29:37.000 visible to everyone, I think we're at 33 white and 30 black. So race relations have been halved. 0.74

00:29:45.240 I mean, instead of emphasizing the positive, instead of, you know, the old white guy and a black guy in 0.73

00:29:50.440 astronaut suit standing in front of a flag, is it entirely real? No, but it's what countries do.

00:29:56.200 Instead of doing that, this sort of endless whining and minging about the Aztecs were introduced to war

00:30:03.560 for the first time ever by the savage incomers. This has massively, massively detracted from 0.98

00:30:10.520 the attitudes that people in general have toward the country and toward other groups within the country.

00:30:15.560 I think that's a fair way to put it.

00:30:17.080 Well, here's my, uh, because I would answer basically the same about race relations. I mean,

00:30:22.760 as you say, it's pretty empirical. So, um, and race relations, I guess, are one of those things

00:30:28.120 that if everybody thinks they're bad, then sort of by definition, they, they are. Uh,

00:30:33.960 my theory about where that all began is it's certainly not just my theory is, uh, you kind of look

00:30:40.680 to me in the, in the middle part of the first decade of the two thousands is when things started,

00:30:48.680 things started being an issue that didn't seem to be an issue before, at least from my perspective.

00:30:52.520 And that's interesting because that is right around the time when we were the first black president,

00:30:56.360 um, which you would think would be, if you didn't know any better naively,

00:31:00.200 and I think people did think it would be kind of the, the final nail in the coffin of, uh, of,

00:31:05.880 you know, any, any, any semblance of poor race relations, that this is sort of the end of that.

00:31:11.880 And now we're into a post-racial future or whatever. It didn't work out that way, obviously.

00:31:16.680 And my theory about why that happened is that when you have a black man at the top of the system, 0.82

00:31:23.720 running the system, well, that's pretty good evidence that systemic racism is not much of an

00:31:30.360 issue anymore because this guy's running the system. But all that meant is that the race hustlers,

00:31:36.120 the, the Robin De Angelos of the world, even if she wasn't, uh, a factor back then, but people like

00:31:42.360 that now they had to kind of work overtime to convince people that they are racist. They had

00:31:48.200 to go looking for problems. And that's why we, that's when you first start hearing about things

00:31:52.200 like microaggressions that no one ever talked about before, but now you start hearing those things

00:31:57.000 because now they gotta, now they gotta, they don't want you to sit there and say, okay, we have a black

00:32:01.080 president. I think things are fine. Um, now they want to go find the problem. And, uh, and maybe that is

00:32:08.280 what started the snowball effect. What, what do you, what do you think about that?

00:32:13.080 I think there's a lot of truth to that. I mean, I voted for Obama in 2008, certainly, um, forget

00:32:18.680 about 12, but I mean, I, I leaned to the right, even at that point. I mean, I was at that point,

00:32:24.600 I was in central, central Chicago, working those sort of post-college jobs. I wasn't a big fan of

00:32:30.440 democratic tax policies, but I thought it'd be cool to see the first black president. I think a lot

00:32:34.520 of people did. There was a massive rally in the downtown of Chicago with about a million

00:32:38.040 people present. Um, my take on Barack Obama, however, is that he's someone who really missed

00:32:46.040 his chance, kind of missed his Nixon and China moment because what Obama could have done in,

00:32:51.960 I think what most people expected him to do is what you basically just said, where he would stand

00:32:57.720 up and say, look, we haven't wrinkled out every last bit of bias in the Appalachian high hills.

00:33:05.560 There's still for that matter of an intolerable level of black crime in Detroit and Atlanta, 1.00

00:33:11.320 but we're all getting along pretty well. Look at the army. I'm the president enough with this.

00:33:16.040 Let's move on to newer issues. The rights for the campaign to actually benefit poor heartland 0.89

00:33:23.080 Americans who come in all colors is something that's decades behind in terms of the launch.

00:33:27.880 I think that's what a lot of people expected. This one's over fights over. We started in 1954. It's

00:33:33.880 done. Um, that's Obama almost did the reverse of that. He had some good domestic policy actually,

00:33:40.520 but his issues on race, I mean, the classic example, most people cite is my son would look

00:33:45.960 just like Trayvon. And the thing that's notable about that is that it's so obviously false. There's a

00:33:53.400 zero percent chance of the son of Barack Obama who went to Harvard, who's not an eight O's black 1.00

00:33:59.480 American, by the way, who's half white, I have noble lineage Kenyan, but there's a zero percent

00:34:05.720 chance of this kid wandering around and shoddy housing development at 1am getting in a fist fight

00:34:12.360 with the head of the local neighborhood watch that escalates to the point of guns being drawn hoodie on.

00:34:17.240 I mean, that's just obviously not true, but the decision to say that didn't occur in isolation.

00:34:25.240 I mean, it was part of Obama's, a lot's been written about this in my field, but it's part

00:34:29.160 of Obama's attempt to put together his coalition of the fringes for 2012 and so on down the line.

00:34:33.160 But yeah, Barack Obama definitely didn't help race relations. My opinion is that his presidency was

00:34:39.080 part of a gradual decline though. I mean, you saw kind of an era and I actually don't really

00:34:44.120 have much of a theory about this, but you saw an era of kind of open free speech

00:34:48.120 where Charles Murray's the bell curve came out on the right. And then Tom Soule wrote

00:34:52.120 a book responding to that black rednecks and white liberals, plus some other things. 0.84

00:34:56.680 I mean, people on the left, who's it? Nisbet wrote a book where he said both of them were wrong.

00:35:03.080 And this is a coherent liberal idea about how you can gain intelligence and learn civilized culture.

00:35:07.480 So we really just let people talk for quite a period. It was maybe 89 to 2005.

00:35:12.920 And then it stopped. To me, I think maybe the onset of social media played a big role,

00:35:18.120 because Facebook came out in 2006, something like that. So as you allowed these censorious people

00:35:24.040 to concentrate in groups, that had a real chilling effect. I think that played a huge role. I have

00:35:30.600 no documentary proof of that. My new film, Am I Racist, has become the surprise hit comedy for 2024,

00:35:36.120 and the only way you can experience it is in theaters. You can get your tickets now

00:35:38.920 at amiracist.com. I'm humbled that it's already become the biggest documentary of the year. It's

00:35:45.160 still a top 10 movie in the country with a 98% audience score on Rotten Tomatoes and showing

00:35:50.040 no signs of slowing down. But there was one movie that started all of this. What is a Woman? A 1.00

00:35:55.000 groundbreaking documentary that unexpectedly became my first cultural phenomenon. Best part,

00:35:59.880 you can stream it now on Daily Wire Plus. Not a Daily Wire Plus member.

00:36:03.000 We'll go to dailywire.com slash subscribe to join the fight today. Use code DW30 for 30% off your new

00:36:09.000 Daily Wire Plus membership. We only have a few minutes left here, but I wanted to ask you another

00:36:16.920 thing that I've been wondering about a lot, especially after making the film. I guess you

00:36:21.720 get your take on it. We have the grifters, and we kind of know what motivates them. That's not all that

00:36:29.080 interesting. They get paid. They have a lot of influence and power and all that kind of stuff.

00:36:37.080 What interests me more are the people who go to these grifters in the movie Race to Dinner. The

00:36:45.880 white ladies who sit around the table at Race to Dinner and get berated. The people that go to these 1.00

00:36:50.760 seminars that you see in the film that I'm there as a joke, but they're there in real life because they

00:36:54.600 really want to be there. It's a really, as I can say, as someone who's been there, it's a very

00:36:59.720 unpleasant experience. It's the opposite of inspirational. It's the opposite of anything

00:37:05.560 that I would ever choose to be around unless I was making a movie about it. Yet, these people choose

00:37:10.840 to go there and kind of be berated and degraded and demeaned, white people in particular, because

00:37:16.840 they're the ones who are in line for that kind of treatment. What do you think, this is more of a

00:37:21.320 psychological question, but what do you think motivates that? What do they get out of that

00:37:26.280 experience? Well, it's three levels. So first, just a personal opinion. I'd like to see people,

00:37:30.920 and in particular white people, stop doing this. We can debate all day whether morality is ultimate,

00:37:35.800 and if so, what morals are ultimate? Is it simply the short list given at the start of each of the

00:37:39.640 great religions, blah, blah, blah. But I think at a basic predatory level, human beings who were hunters

00:37:44.440 since before fire feel contempt for people that embarrass and debase themselves. And white liberals

00:37:52.120 don't seem to understand this. The idea is that outreach to Asian Americans or black business

00:37:58.200 people or something involves this shameful kowtowing and so on. And no, like the black and Polynesian 1.00

00:38:05.080 guys your kids played football with view that just like your kids would. It's bizarre.

00:38:10.520 Some people might accept the offer and exploit those people. Most people like me view it as sort

00:38:17.320 of ignoble to do that, but you don't want to associate with them either. So stop doing that.

00:38:21.000 That's extremely bizarre. A second level of analysis, someone I knew casually in graduate

00:38:26.040 school was a dominatrix as a part-time source of income. And she told me that people who tended

00:38:31.160 toward masochism, not sadism, which is unfortunately broad among males, probably comes out of 10,000 years

00:38:36.440 of rating. But, um, people who tended toward masochism were almost invariably upper middle

00:38:42.120 class, over spoiled, mostly female liberals who felt that someone they needed someone to dominate 1.00

00:38:49.320 them. And it's hard not to notice. I'm sure this will be clipped out of context if anyone bothers,

00:38:55.640 but it's hard not to notice that that's the exact demographic for race for dinner.

00:38:58.920 There's a whole lot of anger at my father. Someone needs to be the powerful Lord and shut

00:39:04.920 me up kind of stuff about a lot of this. The, what is it? Femin, the group that tears their tops off 0.98

00:39:11.320 and throws red paint on things and screams that cops like, are you mad enough to arrest me?

00:39:16.600 Eh, you know, it's, it's psychologically, there's a lot you can say there. Like, you know,

00:39:20.680 why do you have a zip down handmaid's tail outfit in your closet? Is that something you bought

00:39:26.040 specifically for this protest? One might wonder. I mean, so that's, that's a second level of just

00:39:31.240 personal analysis as an adult, as it happens, an adult male. Um, third level, I think though,

00:39:37.480 beyond the people that might be legitimately crazy and almost quote unquote, getting off on this,

00:39:42.600 beyond the people that are making money hustling, there is a third category of person who legitimately

00:39:48.920 has come to believe this stuff. And I think it's important to realize this about the prevalent

00:39:53.720 philosophy in society. We saw this even in communist countries, 30, 40% of the population

00:39:59.000 come to think it's true. Um, we've seen repeatedly, including under COVID-19 that people are willing

00:40:04.840 to quote unquote, snitch on their neighbors. If those in positions of leadership tell them to.

00:40:09.480 So I think a lot of these people are at these dinners because they feel that the only cause of

00:40:16.040 gaps in performance is oppression, that their group is responsible for the oppression and that they

00:40:21.720 want to learn how to stop the oppression. Now watching the full scene at that dinner where the

00:40:26.360 woman said to Rao at one point, you know, I talked to my white friends the same way. I don't feel like

00:40:29.880 this is useful. I think a lot of them began to realize as it went on that they weren't going to get

00:40:34.600 anything out of this, but there's a deeper message there. The reason that being taught about your

00:40:41.240 oppressive nature is not going to fix problems in the black community or on India reservations or for

00:40:46.200 poor whites for that matter is that those things are not caused by oppression. One of the groups I

00:40:51.320 just mentioned is white. They're caused by a combination of failed culture and structural 0.99

00:40:56.200 issues like our elite outsourcing our jobs. So all of this is just a Kabuki sideshow that makes a few 0.95

00:41:01.480 hustlers some money. That that's it. Yep. Fascinating. Um, a lot more we can talk about obviously, but I know,

00:41:07.720 uh, you got to go, uh, you have a real job as a college professor. Um,

00:41:12.600 if I call you again to be in another movie in a crazy wig, are you game or no?

00:41:18.840 Yeah. I've, uh, just, uh, released a new book lies. My liberal teacher told me. And so I've, uh,

00:41:23.000 getting some, uh, requests to talk in serious documentaries and such. And I think yours is the

00:41:28.360 highest grossing in that form right now for a while. So yeah, if you want me to come back, uh,

00:41:33.160 I'd be, I'd certainly be willing to do it. I might, might wear something myself in the skies. I don't

00:41:37.160 know. We'll see where you're on week. See what's up there. Uh, awesome. Appreciate it. Wilford Riley.

00:41:41.080 Thanks for talking to us. Thank you.

00:41:50.040 The stage is set. The stakes are sky high. Senator Vance. Governor Waltz. Face off.

00:42:00.120 But who will land the knockout punch? 0.97

00:42:05.080 Don't watch the debate alone. Experience it with the most trusted names in conservative media.

00:42:11.480 Daily Wire Backstage brings you unfiltered commentary,

00:42:14.520 fighting wit, and expert analysis you won't get anywhere else.

00:42:19.800 Join Ben Shapiro, Matt Walsh, Michael Knowles, Andrew Klavan, and Jeremy Boring for a debate night

00:42:26.680 you'll never forget.

00:42:27.640 Daily Wire Backstage.

00:42:31.080 Tuesday, October 1st, 8.30 Eastern, 7.30 Central. Only on Daily Wire Plus.

00:42:36.280 x

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The Matt Walsh Show - September 27, 2024

Ep. 1452 - Matt Walsh Sits Down With ＂Hate Crime Hoax＂ Author

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