The Matt Walsh Show - Ep. 1808 - What's Going On With Flock Cameras？ We Did A Deep Dive

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00:00:54.420 Maybe you've heard of the horseshoe theory, which was coined, I think, back in the dark ages by a wise man who realized that all of his podcasts were starting to sound the same.

00:01:04.720 And the idea is that at the extreme ends of the spectrum, the right and the left are pretty much indistinguishable.

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00:01:24.380 Now, whatever you make of the theory itself, there's no question that the left and the right are now finding a lot more common ground than usual.

00:01:31.980 And that's notable because, as they've openly admitted many times, the left is committed to the destruction of Western civilization and the rule of law.

00:01:40.320 You'd think it would be very difficult for anyone to find agreement with these people, but increasingly that's not the case.

00:01:47.320 Communists have found very unlikely allies in the conservative movement on a handful of issues, on an increasing number of issues.

00:01:55.840 First, of course, there was the AI data center debate, which we've discussed before.

00:02:00.680 On both the right and the left, there's a consensus that these data centers are going to poison the water, prevent anyone from sleeping, usher in the apocalypse, and take everybody's job.

00:02:08.200 among other things. And while there are very real issues with data centers, which we've

00:02:14.460 talked about, the debate surrounding the issue has become a complete mess. It's descended into

00:02:20.440 hysteria. Now, whenever there's a bipartisan consensus, that's the typical result. People

00:02:26.180 tend to work themselves into hysterics when they're in echo chamber because they just keep

00:02:31.420 ratcheting up the paranoia and the panic. The end result is that nobody can have a serious discussion.

00:02:38.200 Anyone who tries to provide a dissenting opinion gets shouted down.

00:02:41.600 And ultimately, perversely, that works for the benefit of the bad guys or alleged bad guys. 0.92

00:02:47.700 If you're running a data center and you want to do something nefarious with it, it's very good news if all your critics start sounding like lunatics. 0.79

00:02:54.380 People who sound crazy are easy to discredit and dismiss.

00:02:58.500 We're seeing a similar trajectory play out with the debate over flock cameras, which at this point you've probably heard about.

00:03:04.640 People are talking about Flock cameras on podcasts and local news reports and cable news and social media.

00:03:09.740 They're talking about Flock cameras on Nextdoor.

00:03:12.960 In case you haven't heard about them, though, Flock cameras are, just to basically summarize,

00:03:16.820 are AI-enabled surveillance cameras that scan license plates and log other information about vehicles,

00:03:22.600 which are then used by law enforcement to track people with outstanding warrants,

00:03:26.660 or they're used in the case of Amber Alerts or a missing person, and so on.

00:03:31.220 And there are now tens of thousands of these cameras all over the country,

00:03:34.640 soon there will be hundreds of thousands if there aren't already. And no matter who you ask about

00:03:39.540 this, you'll hear the same thing, that these cameras are supposedly making 1984 real. They're

00:03:45.180 ushering in a vast surveillance state in which no human connection or interaction is possible and

00:03:50.880 in which innocent people are stalked and harassed everywhere they go. And most of the people making

00:03:55.760 this argument are using their cell phones to do so without a hint of irony. I mean, they're logging

00:04:00.240 on to social media platforms, which exist to sell your personal information, and complaining

00:04:05.640 about the surveillance state. They're using cellular networks that are constantly surveilled

00:04:10.900 by a major corporation as well as the NSA. And after telling the NSA exactly where they are,

00:04:16.660 and after informing Facebook and XDoor and Instagram of all their personal information,

00:04:21.060 these people are alerting the public to the danger of the surveillance state, and specifically the

00:04:26.160 danger that's posed by Flock cameras. Now, before we begin, I am not a supporter of mass surveillance

00:04:32.900 in general, obviously. Flock, as we will discuss, has a lot of problems, but these problems are

00:04:40.180 not a license to lie about Flock or about any other issue. They're not an excuse to spread

00:04:48.040 false information or make posts that are deliberately misleading. And that's what we're

00:04:53.500 seeing you know it's gone on far too long and it needs to end for example here's a report from the

00:04:58.980 official news channel of the democrat party ms now where every anchor is apparently contractually

00:05:04.680 obligated to look as much like rachel maddow as possible watch so i hate to tell you but you might

00:05:12.020 be getting flocked as in f-l-o-c-k-e-d flocked across the country there is a new kind of

00:05:20.080 surveillance taking place. It is an estimated 100,000 cameras recording cars, where they go,

00:05:26.120 what they look like, when they pass by. All of this is creating searchable records

00:05:30.760 of everyday Americans' movements. It is what happens when you get flocked.

00:05:35.960 It is a reference to flock safety, the largest provider of automatic license plate readers in

00:05:40.480 the United States. These plate readers are pretty unassuming. They're often

00:05:43.120 attached to utility poles like that and streetlights that line highways and neighborhoods

00:05:47.340 and parking lots. And supporters say that those plate readers help solve crimes by giving

00:05:52.980 investigators leads they might not otherwise have. But you don't have to be suspected of a crime or

00:05:57.700 really do anything at all to end up being in the database. You simply just drive by it.

00:06:01.700 And as you might imagine, concerns about privacy and whether flock cameras actually work

00:06:07.280 are starting to pile up. Can anybody in this room tell me, do flock cameras stop crying?

00:06:14.540 Okay? Y'all wasting money, man. A million dollars on that? That's trash.

00:06:19.600 I trust our police. I don't trust Locke. 1.00

00:06:22.660 No more automated license plate readers of any brand. This technology is anti-democratic.

00:06:28.540 Just so you all know, I am a right-wing MAGA Republican voter.

00:06:32.360 I'm telling you all this so you all grasp how this issue spans across this political spectrum.

00:06:36.780 An AI surveillance apparatus goes against the very essence of freedom and the core values of our country.

00:06:42.300 We didn't vote for this, and we sure as hell don't want it,

00:06:44.520 so do us a favor and get the flock out of here.

00:06:49.720 That anchor was so impressed with himself for that flock pun.

00:06:53.320 He was so impressed, even though he didn't even write it.

00:06:57.940 I hate to tell you, but you're getting flocked.

00:07:02.400 Get it?

00:07:04.160 No, you thought I said the F word, but I said flock. 1.00

00:07:07.040 F-L-O-C-K. 1.00

00:07:08.960 You get the joke? Do you? 1.00

00:07:11.920 Now, no matter what you think about flock cameras, even if you think they should all be banned immediately, there's something you need to know and notice about segments like this.

00:07:20.820 Every single investigative segment into flock cameras does the same thing.

00:07:24.820 They all brush past the idea that these cameras could possibly be useful in solving crime.

00:07:30.780 As you just heard, the guy in the town hall meeting implies that these cameras don't stop crime at all.

00:07:36.600 And the anchor barely mentions the idea that cameras could be useful.

00:07:40.920 He simply said that supporters say they solve crime before immediately talking about the privacy issue.

00:07:47.440 That's a pretty obvious sign that you're being manipulated.

00:07:50.100 If we're going to talk about the issues with flock cameras, and we should talk about them, and we will,

00:07:55.540 we have to tell the whole story, not just part of it.

00:07:58.880 Again, this is not going to be a pro-flock monologue, exactly,

00:08:03.240 but it's also not going to be the same slop that insults your intelligence,

00:08:06.700 which you've probably heard dozens of times now.

00:08:08.880 So let's begin with a few real-life cases in which Flock cameras have been directly involved in criminal investigations.

00:08:16.680 There's no better way to learn what these cameras are capable of and how they're useful or not useful, as the case may be.

00:08:23.200 Because as, in fact, they are used to solve crimes. That's a real thing.

00:08:28.460 So you can't just stand there and say, well, you think that these are used to solve crimes? Ridiculous. 0.99

00:08:35.220 waving your hand at it doesn't like of course they're used to solve crimes it's a real thing 0.88

00:08:40.340 so we'll start with a murder that took place on april 13th 2024 at wilbur young park in blue

00:08:45.360 springs missouri there was a fist fight and then a shooting around 10 30 p.m dozens of shell cases

00:08:50.540 were discovered at the scene and authorities determined that at least three people had fired

00:08:54.760 shots three people were hit and two were killed the first thing the police did was check the city

00:08:59.620 owned cameras that were nearby these are dumb cameras that are not connected to flock system

00:09:05.600 The cameras revealed that a man, later identified as Marquise Earl Lee Savannah, raced to a car

00:09:11.740 shortly after the shooting. But the footage was grainy. It didn't capture the license plate of

00:09:16.940 the car. All the camera showed was that the car was a Chevy Cruze with a specific color and

00:09:21.300 configuration. And that information ordinarily would not narrow down the search very much.

00:09:26.720 Then the authorities turned to the city's flock cameras, which worked differently. They aren't

00:09:30.280 simply license plate readers, Flock cameras track dozens of individual characteristics of cars from

00:09:35.200 color to bumper stickers to dents. And this is one of the core features of the product, which they

00:09:39.920 call Freeform. A police officer can type in the Flock system that he's looking for a gray pickup

00:09:43.960 truck with tinted windows and a bumper sticker that says no border wall, and the system will find

00:09:49.200 it. They can use AI in ways that would have been unthinkable just 10 years ago, even five years ago,

00:09:54.300 to sift through thousands of videos and identify a precise match.

00:09:58.880 Now, Flock's relevant patent specifically covers a, quote,

00:10:02.000 system and method for object-based query of video content

00:10:05.980 captured by a dynamic surveillance network,

00:10:08.080 which allows them to parse videos for content

00:10:10.260 and keep it in a database in connection with data that identifies the content,

00:10:14.420 object class aspects of the object, confidence scores,

00:10:17.240 timing, location data, et cetera.

00:10:19.280 As reported by Footnote 4A, quote,

00:10:21.000 the patent family extends to neural networks trained to identify clothing, estimate height

00:10:26.840 and weight, and classify other physical characteristics of individuals stored by design

00:10:31.300 in searchable databases. That is, an index is being built continuously by design and is

00:10:35.860 queryable by any user, Flock decides gets a search box. Now, all this to say, even without a license

00:10:43.740 plate, Flock cameras can track down a specific Chevy Cruze, and that's exactly what happened

00:10:47.680 in this case. This is from the local Fox affiliate, quote, according to court documents, a sergeant

00:10:52.300 used the flock camera system to identify the sedan shown on the park camera as a specific color,

00:10:57.060 year, make, and model bearing a specific license plate. Two days later, another sergeant received

00:11:01.800 a flock hit on the Chevy Cruze. The patrol sergeant then responded to the area to look for it,

00:11:07.080 spotted it at a car wash nearby, and took the driver into custody. Flowers said the department

00:11:11.580 has had the network for about a year. Super helpful. We use it constantly during our

00:11:15.460 investigations, Flowers said. Investigators could track a vehicle back in time for up to 30 days

00:11:20.900 with a hotspot map showing areas where it appears frequently. Authorities said this can be used to

00:11:26.100 determine where a suspect may live. Now, this kind of investigation happens all the time with

00:11:31.160 Flock. Here's another example. In the summer of 2024, at the Cherry Creek Shopping Center in

00:11:35.520 Denver, a gang of South American thieves stole more than $12 million in jewelry. And according

00:11:41.560 to authorities, four people traveled from California to Denver in a dark colored pickup

00:11:45.180 truck without any license plates. They were dressed like construction workers. They had hard

00:11:49.360 hats, masks, gloves, reflexive vests, as you can see here. They arrived at the mall around 8 p.m.,

00:11:56.900 at which point they began cutting through a wall from a shop next to the jewelry store before

00:12:01.540 breaking into display cases and store safes. They were in the store for a total of eight hours,

00:12:05.860 and about three hours into the theft, they tripped an alarm. But when mall security cameras

00:12:10.240 you know security looked at the cameras they assumed that it was related to construction job

00:12:15.040 and so the gang went all over the country uh in this way carrying out similar heists as far as

00:12:21.440 away as new jersey they were proving extremely difficult to catch because again their truck

00:12:27.020 didn't have a license plate and the criminals were all wearing masks once they were gone police had

00:12:32.380 no description to work with the investigation only turned a corner once the authorities began

00:12:37.400 using Flock cameras. This is from CBS News, quote, shortly after the Denver heist, investigators fed

00:12:42.700 information about the truck into a database belonging to Flock Systems, the company that

00:12:47.220 has installed license plate reader cameras in Colorado and across the country. As it turns out,

00:12:51.400 the system does more than help track vehicles through their license plates. It's essentially

00:12:56.000 machine learning technology, a kind of artificial intelligence, said Holly Balin, a spokesperson for

00:13:01.400 Flock Safety, by inputting the type of vehicle, body style, color, and number of other characteristics

00:13:05.840 of the truck into the flock system, it told investigators that the precise truck had been

00:13:10.400 seen by another camera on Interstate 70 in Glenwood Springs headed toward Denver before the heist. At

00:13:15.660 that time, the truck displayed California license plates. So that was a major break in the case. The

00:13:21.500 flock cameras tracked pickup truck a long way back based on its physical characteristics. And

00:13:27.820 with the help of flock's patented AI, in this case, the authorities learned that the truck involved

00:13:31.940 in the jeweler heist was displaying a california plate uh at one point along interstate 70 and

00:13:38.180 meanwhile the authorities obtained a search warrant for the cell phone tower at the shopping center

00:13:42.400 they found that a phone belonging to an illegal alien named gustavo salas ortega was active at

00:13:48.760 the mall during the heist and by itself that's not a smoking gun because there's plenty of reasons

00:13:53.300 why somebody you know might be around the mall late at night arguably but in this case the

00:13:59.320 information was damning because the same cell phone also pinged the tower along Interstate 70

00:14:03.760 at the precise moment the flock cameras were capturing the pickup truck. So in other words,

00:14:08.400 because of the flock cameras, in conjunction with cell phone data, authorities developed

00:14:12.260 probable cause that Gustavo Salas Ortega was involved in the robbery. He wasn't simply at

00:14:16.880 the mall during the robbery. He was also driving a truck that arrived right before the robbery,

00:14:22.080 carrying construction workers, and left once the robbery was concluded. Again,

00:14:25.440 And whatever you think of flock cameras or the privacy implications in these cases, the

00:14:30.300 flock cameras were clearly useful, not just useful, they were pivotal in solving a serious

00:14:34.920 crime.

00:14:36.740 You know, there's no getting around that. 0.94

00:14:39.000 It is a good thing, unambiguously, for murderers and illegal alien jewelry thieves to be in 0.64

00:14:44.500 prison. 0.72

00:14:45.900 We need to remove these people from society and the cameras allow the authorities to do 0.98

00:14:52.200 that.

00:14:52.440 So it can't be as simple. If we have technology that would help us solve crimes like this, it cannot be as simple as just to say, well, we just shouldn't use it.

00:15:02.700 We should be more sporting. You know, we should be we should be good sports.

00:15:06.760 Yeah, we could we could solve these crimes, but it'd be better to have these murderers running free.

00:15:11.740 That seems like a wildly, overly simplistic take on this issue.

00:15:15.580 And there's a reason that no one at MS Now or on your favorite conspiracy podcast wants to talk about these cases.

00:15:23.220 It's a lot easier to get clicks by telling people that Big Brother is watching them and that they need to panic and riot in the streets about it.

00:15:30.040 But the reality is just a lot more complicated.

00:15:33.480 And there are plenty of other cases I could talk about.

00:15:35.460 Just a couple of weeks ago in Porter County, Indiana, a flat camera alerted police to a stolen U-Haul on the highway.

00:15:41.720 They pulled it over, arrested the driver, and returned the vehicle.

00:15:45.520 Again, it's clearly a positive outcome.

00:15:47.900 Last year, a flat camera tracked down a man who shot a police officer in Oklahoma.

00:15:51.420 The cameras traced his vehicle to New Mexico.

00:15:53.480 The cameras identified his license plate in a Walmart parking lot.

00:15:56.480 Police swarmed the area.

00:15:57.920 The guy then shot himself.

00:15:59.780 This is clearly a violent and dangerous person.

00:16:01.860 And because of these cameras, the police got to him before he could shoot anyone else except himself, which, you know, well, that's his choice.

00:16:09.680 Makes things easier in a lot of ways.

00:16:10.800 Then there was the carjacking that took place a couple of months ago in Oakland County, Michigan, in which a man shot a woman in a mall parking lot and took her car.

00:16:20.380 The police department used Flock cameras to find the car and arrest the carjacker in a little over an hour.

00:16:25.820 There was also the 60-year-old man in Indiana who was arrested near a park for sexual battery on a juvenile after Flock cameras found his car.

00:16:32.480 That seems like a positive outcome. 0.99

00:16:35.120 And here's another example from Iowa a few months ago.

00:16:37.560 Last Tuesday, one person was shot and another assaulted here at Nicholson Ford Park.

00:16:44.360 Marshalltown police were later able to arrest a suspect thanks to a piece of technology.

00:16:49.000 The technology is extremely beneficial for us.

00:16:51.800 The two victims who were at Nicholson Ford Park, along with witnesses,

00:16:55.120 gave authorities a description of the vehicle.

00:16:57.160 We really didn't have a whole lot to go off right away, short of a vehicle description.

00:17:02.060 So we were able to use our flock cameras.

00:17:04.260 Captain Kyle Stevenson with Marshalltown police says one of the flock cameras helped authorities zero in on a vehicle the day of the incident.

00:17:11.340 It was kind of a unique vehicle description and we're able to use the cameras to find that vehicle and identify the vehicle and then ultimately the occupants of the vehicle.

00:17:21.420 And here's one more. This is from the Brown University mass shooting that you probably remember from the end of last year.

00:17:26.660 A random homeless guy reported a suspicious vehicle on Reddit and told police that it was probably related to the shooting.

00:17:32.440 They tracked the car retroactively and learned that it had been spotted 14 times by Flock cameras in the two weeks before the shooting watch.

00:17:41.120 Now, a case that gripped the nation can be seen as the latest success story for Flock cameras.

00:17:46.920 Much of the Northeast was on edge after two people died and many others were injured in a mass shooting at Brown University.

00:17:53.600 Police then connected the gunman on the loose to the murder of an MIT professor.

00:17:58.500 More fear and concern out in the community.

00:18:00.380 After several days, investigators got their breakthrough tip, a lead on the car driven by the gunman.

00:18:07.000 According to an Associated Press report, police used the 70 Flock cameras in Providence, Rhode Island,

00:18:12.820 to retroactively track the movement of the suspect's Nissan sedan.

00:18:17.140 That trail helped lead them to a storage facility in New Hampshire, where police found the suspect dead.

00:18:23.360 His motive? Still unknown.

00:18:25.220 now we can spend the next few weeks talking about cases like this but you get the point

00:18:31.780 these are verifiable these are true stories in which flock cameras clearly assisted the

00:18:36.180 authorities in tracking some very dangerous people these cameras have saved lives as a

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00:20:43.540 that doesn't mean the cameras are automatically a net positive. It's a good point in their favor.

00:20:49.940 It doesn't automatically mean it. It doesn't mean we shouldn't talk about the privacy implications,

00:20:53.420 but if we're going to have an honest discussion about these cameras, we have to talk about the

00:20:56.820 benefits that are clearly being realized because of the cameras. You can't weigh the pros and cons

00:21:03.040 of the cameras, and you can't talk about the trade-offs if you simply refuse to discuss

00:21:07.360 stories like this. Now, if you ignore all this evidence and simply conclude that anybody who

00:21:13.040 supports flat cameras must be a corporate shill or a fed or whatever retarded nonsense, then you're 0.93

00:21:18.940 not worth taking seriously. I mean, I could just as easily say that you're on the side of the 1.00

00:21:22.860 foreign invaders and the leftist NGO allies who despise flat cameras because they're being used

00:21:27.880 to enforce immigration law, which by the way, is one of the main reasons why the left doesn't like

00:21:32.420 them. That's what they're really upset about. If we're actually being honest, people who enforce

00:21:37.360 COVID lockdowns don't actually care about your privacy. Their sole objective for some time now

00:21:42.740 has been to flood this country with criminals, particularly foreign criminals, but really any 0.99

00:21:46.060 criminal that they'll take them all, in order to enact demographic replacement. They've turned 0.97

00:21:52.160 California into a colony of Mexico that will never again elect another Republican, and they want to 0.88

00:21:57.060 do the same thing to the rest of the country. Flock cameras stand in the way, which is why they

00:22:01.540 oppose them. It's that simple. Let's go back to that MS Now segment to give you an idea.

00:22:07.380 so don't take it from me listen to their objections and now the fight over flock has

00:22:15.580 moved on to college campuses at least 75 campuses have these cameras places that my next guest

00:22:22.900 bulwark journalist adrian carasquillo says are the next frontier of the deportation wars

00:22:27.340 but there are students who are pushing back the bulwark reports the groups are organizing against

00:22:32.000 the use of plate readers with the goal to, quote, see flock no longer deployed on campuses

00:22:37.040 at all. And joining me now to discuss it all is Adrian Carrasquillo, National Immigration

00:22:42.340 Correspondent of The Bulwark, and Tobias Halpern, student at California Polytechnic State University

00:22:47.340 and founder of D-Flock SLO, a.k.a. SLO. Tobias, let me start with you. Thanks to both of you

00:22:52.980 for being here. Tell me more about what you guys are doing at D-Flock SLO and, you know,

00:22:58.900 why of all the issues on a college campus was this so important to you?

00:23:02.000 Yeah, I mean, so we're in a unique institution where San Luis Obispo and Cal Poly claims to be a Hispanic serving institution. And as you started to bring up, the ICE connection was just too big to ignore.

00:23:17.600 When you opt into Flock, when you buy a Flock camera like Cal Poly did, you don't just buy a surveillance camera.

00:23:25.620 You're buying access and participation into this network.

00:23:29.660 And so I think that's what really bothers people and that's what really bothers students.

00:23:33.040 And that's what bothered us at Cal Poly is that as a Hispanic serving institution, 0.97

00:23:38.220 they are going out and entering this network that has time and time again aided ICE in illegal deportations 0.97

00:23:45.260 and just created this surveillance dragnet that is really uncomfortable to anyone when you think

00:23:50.720 about it. So MS now brings on two guests, both of them opposed to Flock, and both of them spend

00:23:56.400 the entire time talking about ICE and immigration enforcement. And one of them is literally an

00:24:00.700 immigration reporter. The other is some kid who's concerned about illegal deportations,

00:24:04.600 by which he means deportations. Of course, all deportations are illegal to these people.

00:24:09.080 This is not an accident. This is their entire focus. The kid's not worried about Flock cameras

00:24:13.040 somehow being used to frame him for a crime or record him in his home or any of the horror stories

00:24:17.300 you might hear about, he's concerned that flat cameras will be used to identify and deport

00:24:20.920 Democrat Party voters. That's where the left's opposition to flat cameras comes from. Similar

00:24:26.580 to why they hate ring cameras. It's why they elect DAs who open the prisons. They want criminals to

00:24:31.700 get away with crimes. I mean, it's really no more complicated than that. So if you're on the right,

00:24:35.820 if you want to preserve Western civilization, which means preserving law and order and national

00:24:40.420 identity, you're making common cause with these people. It doesn't necessarily mean you're wrong,

00:24:45.400 but it should give you some pause. It should make you scrutinize very carefully why you oppose

00:24:50.900 flock cameras and what you know about them. So let's do that. Now, the arguments against flock

00:24:56.500 cameras break down into two categories, hypothetical problems and actual problems,

00:25:00.420 meaning cases where flock has been misused beyond any doubt. Professor Wilford Riley offers this

00:25:05.360 example of a hypothetical problem with flock cameras. He says, quote, it's just objectively

00:25:09.780 is bad if you scuffle with a bum for 45 seconds to protect your girl, make out with that same

00:25:14.620 lady against the wall outside a nightclub, or drive 25 miles over the speed limit anywhere, 0.99

00:25:19.700 a robot can fly to your house and charge you with two A misdemeanors. This is especially the case

00:25:24.260 given that one, only taxpayers with addresses can get targeted in this fashion, and two,

00:25:29.480 this will immediately get political in both directions. Now, this is a scenario that we

00:25:36.320 should say, for the record, has never taken place. As far as I know, nothing like this has actually

00:25:40.280 ever occurred. And for good measure, we'll include Peter Hassan's reply to that post. He's at the

00:25:44.760 Free Beacon. He says, quote, I'm sorry, but the flock discussions are so deranged. Flock is

00:25:48.800 basically a tool to make it easier to catch gangbangers after drive-by shootings, which is

00:25:53.040 why libs hate it. And you have people on the right making up fake scenarios and then getting mad about

00:25:57.320 them. Very stupid own goals. Now, as you'd imagine, Peter was dogpiled for that post, including by 1.00

00:26:04.000 people on the right. It's not an easy position to stake out. A lot of people replied to him by

00:26:08.320 making the argument that under a future Democrat administration, you could imagine Riley's scenario

00:26:12.780 happening for real. During the next fake pandemic, you could easily picture Gavin Newsom's

00:26:17.480 administration shutting down the roads and arresting any homeowner in a right-wing neighborhood

00:26:21.020 who ventures outside. And just as easily, you could imagine Gavin Newsom's administration

00:26:24.920 allowing foreigners and felons like George Floyd to roam the streets with total impunity. 0.84

00:26:30.080 This is the anarcho-tyranny objection to flock cameras, which Mike Cernovich has made very forcefully. 0.57

00:26:34.800 The idea is that if the rule of law existed in this country, then flock cameras would be fine.

00:26:40.540 But we all saw how the FBI ruthlessly hunted down January 6th grandmothers, while at the same time they ignored BLM rioters who committed murder and destroyed small businesses all over the country.

00:26:50.180 We all saw how the public health experts, so-called, said we couldn't protest the lockdowns because it was too dangerous. 0.88

00:26:56.120 but at the same time, BLM had every right to terrorize entire neighborhoods because white

00:27:00.320 supremacy was supposedly an even bigger problem than COVID. So what guarantees do we have that

00:27:05.580 flat cameras won't be used in the exact same way to punish the enemies of the Democrat Party?

00:27:10.680 Well, the answer, of course, is that we have no guarantees whatsoever. I mean, it's conceivable

00:27:15.260 that if communists take control of the government, again, they'll use these cameras to crack down on

00:27:21.180 free expression. They'll track us everywhere we go. They'll make sure we aren't going to, you know,

00:27:24.900 They'll go to any unapproved gatherings or visit any enemies of the state.

00:27:29.000 They'll make 1984 real, and we'll have to endure another 50 years of listening to cliched

00:27:34.480 references to that particular book.

00:27:36.780 And as alarming as that hypothetical is, we have to keep a few things in mind.

00:27:41.780 First of all, AI-powered devices are already tracking us everywhere we go.

00:27:46.560 They're called cell phones.

00:27:48.740 And unlike flock cameras, which mainly track vehicles, cell phones are usually in your

00:27:53.560 pocket.

00:27:54.900 You know, they log every single one of your movements going back years.

00:27:58.980 Now, I'm not just talking about Google services like Google Maps, which record your location in the background.

00:28:03.280 I'm talking about the cell phone signal itself, even when you're not using the phone.

00:28:08.180 Just to give you an idea of how precise this tracking is, remember the lunatic who ambushed those firefighters in Idaho last summer?

00:28:15.420 He lit a brush fire on the west slope of Canfield Mountain, and then when the firefighters showed up, he retreated to the woods and opened fire.

00:28:22.880 Now, the SWAT team had no idea where the shooter was, so they spent several hours slowly

00:28:26.940 driving up to the scene of the shooting in an armored bearcat trying to find where the sniper

00:28:31.400 had gone. They didn't want to get out and look because they were worried they'd get shot.

00:28:35.660 And they sent up thermal drones, but they weren't returning any heat signatures.

00:28:39.780 So what did they do? Well, they got a court order requiring a cell phone company to provide

00:28:45.360 information about any cell phones in the area. And while they had a tentative match with somebody

00:28:49.540 in the woods, the data wasn't specific enough to pinpoint the suspect's exact location. So the FBI

00:28:53.580 flew a helicopter overhead equipped with digital receiver technology, which is basically a cell

00:28:58.300 site simulator. It mimics a cell tower and cell phones automatically attempt to connect to it.

00:29:03.520 That's how they located the precise location of the shooter within a margin of inches.

00:29:08.760 Okay. So in other words, if you have a cell phone, then you can't hide from anyone. If you have a

00:29:15.280 cell phone, then the scenario you're worried about with flat cameras is already happening.

00:29:20.840 Google, Apple, and the cell phone carriers already know everything about you, including

00:29:25.760 where you are every second of the day. They're all selling that information. And even if they

00:29:30.360 weren't, the FBI has equipment that can locate precisely where your cell phone is at any moment

00:29:35.200 in time. So if you're opposed to flat cameras, then it doesn't make any sense to also have no

00:29:42.200 problem with the cell phone. There's no getting around it. But even if you successfully lobby

00:29:46.400 to get flock cameras banned nationwide, and even if you throw away your phone,

00:29:51.100 you're still going to be tracked by cameras 99% of the time. First of all, pretty much every

00:29:56.500 residential neighborhood is now flooded with ring cameras. If you go for a walk in a typical

00:30:00.860 suburb, there's a very good chance that ring cameras can easily piece together your entire

00:30:05.860 route and listen to your conversations. Many of these cameras have enough range to see the street.

00:30:11.160 so they can track vehicles also.

00:30:14.780 Now, it's true that Ring cameras

00:30:15.740 are technically more decentralized than Flock cameras

00:30:18.200 since Flock cameras are leased to law enforcement agencies

00:30:20.360 but owned and maintained by Flock,

00:30:22.380 while Ring cameras are owned by millions of individuals,

00:30:24.780 homeowners and business owners.

00:30:26.560 But in practice, it's not much of a distinction.

00:30:29.340 Ring, like Flock, maintains all the footage on its servers.

00:30:33.260 During an investigation,

00:30:34.320 police can easily obtain a search warrant

00:30:36.080 for all of that footage

00:30:37.320 without asking individual homeowners for permission.

00:30:40.380 So if you want to ban flock cameras, then to achieve any kind of meaningful result, you really have to ban ring cameras, too.

00:30:48.980 And that would obviously be a disaster for about a dozen reasons.

00:30:51.780 First of all, people have the right to install cameras on their own property if they want to.

00:30:56.500 That's their right. Secondly, ring cameras capture all kinds of criminal activity every single day.

00:31:01.380 If you've ever used the Ring app, you know that people are constantly posting videos of crimes.

00:31:06.000 They're also posting thousands of comments about missing dogs and lost mail, which you need to filter out before you go insane.

00:31:11.580 But third, as the journalist Cam Higby pointed out, once you start banning private people from using cameras, you're basically making it illegal to be a journalist, a real journalist anyway.

00:31:20.460 Cam Higby has shot some extremely important footage over the past few years.

00:31:23.680 We feature his coverage on the show many times.

00:31:25.840 He's one of the few people who's willing to risk his life to cover Antifa violence, for example.

00:31:29.840 But if we're going to ban private surveillance, then we have to ban journalists like Cam Higby, too.

00:31:36.000 Now, of course, none of the opponents of Flock will go that far.

00:31:39.040 When you drill down, they'll say that they're really opposed to Flock because there are specific concrete issues with this specific surveillance system, not cameras in general.

00:31:48.260 That's where the actual debate lies.

00:31:49.960 At least that's what the rational critics will say.

00:31:53.060 So let's focus on that debate, on the rational debate, as opposed to the hypotheticals and the grand sweeping paranoia about a surveillance state that has already been in place for a really long time.

00:32:04.100 and you're already participating in every single day when you walk around with your cell phone.

00:32:08.000 The first substantive argument against Flock, one you may have seen,

00:32:12.660 is that they supposedly spied on children.

00:32:14.740 So here's one viral post, for example, that has millions of views.

00:32:17.880 Quote, a Flock vice president logged into the Dunwoody PD's Flock system

00:32:21.640 and looked at a camera in the children's gymnastics room of a private community center here in Dunwoody.

00:32:26.660 He did not look at any other cameras in the entire 400 camera network that day. 0.74

00:32:31.960 Now, the way that's written, it obviously sounds like the Flock vice president is a pervert who belongs in prison. 0.91

00:32:37.180 And indeed, you'll find thousands of comments accusing the VP by name of being a pedophile.

00:32:42.980 Now, what this post omits is that, according to Flock, their vice president was running a sales demo of the system when he pulled up the feed.

00:32:50.180 He wasn't specifically trying to pull up the gymnastics center for the purpose of looking at children.

00:32:53.880 Instead, they say he was trying to demonstrate how the system safeguards work. 0.71

00:32:57.520 So, for example, if you try to search for Star of David so that you can round up all the Jews, it will deny the request.

00:33:04.220 You know, if you try to enter someone's specific name, it will deny the request. 0.76

00:33:07.520 It's only supposed to pull up videos that match general descriptions like black pickup truck, you know, or something like that.

00:33:13.640 Now, is Phlox's story excuse true?

00:33:18.000 We don't know, but it's also true that we have no actual evidence that Phlox's VP is a pedophile.

00:33:23.740 The VP knows that all of these searches are stored, which is how they were eventually released to the public.

00:33:28.800 So it certainly would be odd for him to pull up this footage one day, knowing that anyone could submit a records request and discover the search.

00:33:36.360 If you're going to accuse a man of one of the most serious crimes imaginable, you need some evidence.

00:33:42.880 There's none here at all.

00:33:44.680 But even assuming their story is true, does that mean that Flock bears no responsibility here?

00:33:51.240 Well, of course not.

00:33:51.780 they've admitted this was wrong and that flock cameras that are installed in sensitive locations

00:33:55.580 shouldn't be a part of any sales demo. The only reason flock should have been looking at this

00:33:59.580 gymnastic center is if there was an emergency and somebody was trying to harm these children,

00:34:03.640 like what happened at that Taylor Swift dance studio in the UK when the foreigner whose

00:34:07.080 family was imported from Rwanda massacred several children. So for example, that would be a

00:34:12.200 valid occasion to use the cameras. And you can see the mugshot of that guy here, by the way,

00:34:17.840 the guy who looks like he's been struck by lightning every day of his life. These people

00:34:21.900 exist, and Flock is supposed to assist in tracking them. That was their deal with the

00:34:27.460 gymnastics center when they installed the equipment, and they broke the deal by accessing

00:34:31.660 the footage for no reason. But this is the perfect illustration of what I'm talking about.

00:34:35.880 By making this about pedophilia, critics of Flock are discrediting themselves for no reason.

00:34:40.520 There's no evidence that Flock's vice president is a pervert, but that's the claim Flock's

00:34:45.180 tractors are making with total confidence, instead of focusing on the actual issue,

00:34:49.100 which there is one, they're just making something up. It's counterproductive. It's also extremely

00:34:53.240 dumb. And we see it all the time. Now, another argument you'll hear, which is a better argument, 1.00

00:34:59.120 is that flocks tracking is so pervasive and so extensive that it's the equivalent of a specific

00:35:03.860 police officer following you around all day when you're in your car. This is the kind of

00:35:08.580 surveillance that under our existing law may be a violation of your Fourth Amendment rights.

00:35:12.120 It's true that anybody, including police officers, has the constitutional right to

00:35:15.760 observe you in public. You don't have any expectation of privacy when you're driving

00:35:19.680 in your car. People are free to observe you on the road. But it's also true that if somebody

00:35:24.100 follows you around all the time, everywhere you go, then they're crossing a line into stalking

00:35:28.000 and harassment. And the argument is that by tracking people for hundreds of miles,

00:35:31.660 flock cameras are basically acting as stalkers. They're the equivalent of police officers who are

00:35:36.340 harassing you, following you around. Now, you can think of a few ways to address this concern.

00:35:41.460 one solution would be to prevent anyone at flock or a local police department from viewing any

00:35:45.520 footage without explicit authorization from a court. That's already the expectation, but it's

00:35:50.520 often violated. Flock footage is routinely being accessed without any justification. Watch.

00:35:57.120 A police officer who used license plate reader cameras to track down a woman and wrongly accuse

00:36:02.840 her of theft will be disciplined. This story has been spreading online over the last month.

00:36:07.060 Sergeant Jamie Milliman with the Columbine Valley Police Department showed up to a woman's home and claimed he had video evidence proving she stole a package.

00:36:16.200 Milliman used the Flock safety cameras to track her down.

00:36:19.540 Turns out the allegation was wrong.

00:36:21.400 The woman ended up proving she wasn't the thief and providing her own video evidence.

00:36:27.420 The town administrator with Columbine Valley wrote that Officer Milliman will be disciplined but won't elaborate beyond that.

00:36:34.000 A now-former Georgia sheriff's employee is facing charges accused of using license plate data to stalk two people.

00:36:42.140 And the GBI is now investigating.

00:36:44.280 Investigators say Anna Altabello, a secretary at the Eccles County Sheriff's Office,

00:36:49.060 searched the flock safety system on multiple occasions for two people she knew personally.

00:36:54.920 The GBI says the searches were unrelated to any law enforcement activity.

00:36:59.000 And unfortunately, this isn't the first time that law enforcement has been accused of misusing flock safety data.

00:37:06.140 Back in October, Sandy Springs Police said that they had to fire a reserve officer for refusing to cooperate in an investigation into possible misconduct related to the system.

00:37:16.300 These are cases you'll hear about a lot when you're listening to the anti-flock side of the argument.

00:37:20.660 They'll point to the fact that technology has been abused.

00:37:23.360 And there are many more cases like this.

00:37:25.540 Here's CBS Atlanta with a recap.

00:37:27.160 Quote, Cherokee County, three sheriff's employees, including a lieutenant and sergeant, were arrested after investigators alleged they improperly searched the county's license plate reader database.

00:37:35.940 Albany, five former Albany police officers were arrested after a Georgia Bureau investigation probe found they allegedly used flock data for unauthorized purposes following an internal audit.

00:37:46.220 Green County, a sheriff's deputy, was arrested and fired after investigators said an audit showed she used the flock system for personal reasons.

00:37:52.940 Fayetteville, three police officers were fired this week after investigators say they searched license plates belonging to themselves, family members, and acquaintances without a legitimate law enforcement purpose.

00:38:02.300 Meanwhile, Reason put out this video where a sassy reporter outlines a few more egregious cases.

00:38:08.120 Watch. 0.74

00:38:09.560 20 times in one month.

00:38:11.100 Then there's the Arkansas couple that had a flat camera pointed right at their house, putting them and their guests under constant warrantless surveillance.

00:38:18.400 And not to perpetuate stereotypes,

00:38:20.620 but multiple cops and police chiefs have accessed Flock

00:38:22.940 hundreds of times to stalk their exes and current partners.

00:38:26.780 But don't worry, you can stalk people too

00:38:28.380 because Flock cameras are hackable in under 30 seconds.

00:38:31.440 They can be turned into a personal spy device,

00:38:33.080 run on an Android operating system discontinued in 2021,

00:38:36.240 and didn't even have two-factor authentication

00:38:38.360 until it recently came out that they didn't.

00:38:40.720 YouTuber Ben Jordan even found 51 vulnerabilities with Flock

00:38:43.780 and said accessing them is so easy,

00:38:46.020 12-year-olds could do it.

00:38:47.440 We don't condone the destruction of flat cameras,

00:38:49.600 but we're also not surprised the public

00:38:51.280 has reached their boiling point.

00:38:52.560 One Virginia man now faces 19 felonies

00:38:55.040 and six misdemeanors for destroying 13 cameras

00:38:58.400 over six months.

00:39:03.360 I hate the editing on these.

00:39:04.480 I hate the way these videos are edited now.

00:39:06.640 Every video now. 1.00

00:39:09.520 In particular, any video where it's a woman

00:39:14.000 talking to a camera now. 0.98

00:39:15.360 It's like, it's all...

00:39:17.440 the tone, the attitude, the like, I gotta, I gotta have 50 different poses. It's a 30 second

00:39:24.940 video. You have important information about a serious topic and you need 50 poses.

00:39:32.740 You're looking this way. You're up this way. You're sitting down. You're on top of the light

00:39:36.120 posts. You're doing pull-ups. You're what, and what is with everyone now, every video,

00:39:43.100 especially on TikTok, people have the cadence of like a cartoon character. Yeah. That's like a

00:39:46.780 cartoon character. Yeah, it's like a cartoon character, cadence and tone and facial expressions

00:39:53.200 and like moving around all the time. Why is everyone talking like cartoon character? Just

00:39:59.140 give the information. That's all we need. Does that, does anyone, do you absorb the information

00:40:06.040 better when they cut it together that way with 50 different poses and the attitude and the tone and

00:40:11.640 the cartoon character, you know, cadence. Does that help anybody? Anyway.

00:40:21.700 We need to flock cameras to track every single person who makes videos like that.

00:40:26.800 Round them all up and deport them to the surface of the sun.

00:40:33.860 Anyway, these are all legitimate examples of problems with the implementation of flock

00:40:37.780 cameras. Some cops are misusing them for personal reasons. The cameras also apparently

00:40:41.540 have some technical vulnerabilities, although it's worth pointing out that no one has actually

00:40:45.960 hacked these cameras in real life, as far as we know, outside of these proof-of-concept tests.

00:40:50.660 There have been situations where police departments' passwords have been compromised or where

00:40:53.840 camera feeds have been broadcast online by mistake, but it looks like those issues were

00:40:59.080 patched. In any event, it's true that flat cameras have been abused, which is a problem.

00:41:03.160 The problem is, if you banned every technology that was abused, you wouldn't have any technology

00:41:08.100 you left. I mean, there have been cases where bad actors purchased data from wireless carriers,

00:41:13.880 which they obtained via web portals operated by third-party brokers that didn't run any legal

00:41:18.480 checks. That doesn't mean that we should ban cell phones. It means we should punish the brokers who

00:41:23.040 are selling the data. Along the same lines, when Edward Snowden revealed the NSA was secretly

00:41:27.260 collecting phone data from millions of Verizon users with secret warrants, nobody suggested that

00:41:32.280 we should ban Verizon or cell phones. And for good reason. For all my critiques of modern

00:41:39.880 technology, and there are many, cell phones ultimately do more good than harm. The fact

00:41:48.160 that bad actors can hijack our cell phone data doesn't mean that we should revert to the Stone

00:41:52.160 Age. It means that to the best of our ability, we need to recognize that some degree of surveillance

00:41:56.460 is an inevitable byproduct of the age that we're living in. It's just the reality.

00:42:02.280 The only practical safeguard against the abuse of that surveillance, aside from the things we've

00:42:06.880 already talked about, putting systems and policies and laws in place, governing when this kind of

00:42:12.580 stuff can be accessed and by who, which we should do. But that all requires that we elect people

00:42:20.540 who will not abuse the technology and punish those who do abuse it or will. End the anarcho-tyranny.

00:42:30.600 Now, that's not the most dramatic or compelling solution. It's not a perfect solution. But it's the only one with any chance of success. It's the only choice we have. We can't align with communists for any reason on any issue. We can't repeat the talking points from activists on MS Now who are lying to your face in order to subvert ICE and assist illegal aliens in avoiding detection.

00:42:54.500 I mean, as unpopular as it may be to say, with or without Flock, mass surveillance is already here.

00:43:01.760 It's been here for a long time.

00:43:04.140 You've already made yourself 100% trackable and traceable with the cell phone you're using to listen to me right now.

00:43:12.340 And while that may sound ominous, and it is, the truth is there are a few things even worse than mass surveillance.

00:43:20.840 Mass demographic replacement is one of those things.

00:43:25.460 So don't let your concerns about mass surveillance, which are totally legitimate, turn you into an unwitting supporter of mass demographic replacement.

00:43:34.660 That's where the flock debate is heading.

00:43:37.360 Whether or not you're a fan of flock cameras, that's the unavoidable reality of the current debate.

00:43:44.240 Now, yes, if you say that out loud, you'll be called a shill and a fed and a fascist.

00:43:48.880 But one thing you won't be is an accomplice to the largest foreign invasion this country has ever seen.

00:43:54.340 You'll be one of the few people who's not giving the communists exactly what they want right now.

00:44:00.120 And whether you support Flock or not, that's a pretty good place to be.

00:44:05.220 That'll do it for the show today.

00:44:06.220 Thanks for watching.

00:44:06.780 Thanks for listening.

00:44:07.320 Talk to you tomorrow.

00:44:08.080 Have a great day.

00:44:09.060 Godspeed.

00:44:16.600 Once upon a time, there was a country.

00:44:19.860 Not just a country, but a big one.

00:44:21.860 An empire.

00:44:22.260 And in that empire, there was an upper-middle-class family who had two boys, who were raised by

00:44:27.760 their mother, who loved books, Uncle Tom's Cabin, and the Bible.

00:44:32.260 Their father admired the country's leaders, who were patriotic and happy.

00:44:36.260 Both sons went to universities where they were radicalized.

00:44:40.260 One of the brothers read a book and convinced him to try to shoot the country's leader.

00:44:44.260 He was hanged.

00:44:45.260 The other brother read the same books, but decided to lead a movement.

00:44:49.260 First they came for the universities, and no one seemed to care.

00:44:53.260 Then they took over the unions, and again, no one seemed to care.

00:44:56.260 Then they created their own media organizations and took over the cities.

00:44:59.260 And again, most people just ignored it.

00:45:01.260 Change, after all, was something they could believe in.

00:45:04.260 Until it was too late.

00:45:06.260 Sound familiar?

00:45:07.260 This is the real history of communism in the Russian Revolution.

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The Matt Walsh Show - July 21, 2026

Ep. 1808 - What's Going On With Flock Cameras？ We Did A Deep Dive

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