The Matt Walsh Show - Ep. 233 - Toilet Seat Oppression

00:00:00.000 Today on the Matt Wall Show, is it white nationalism to expect immigrants to assimilate? 1.00

00:00:05.540 No, that's stupid, obviously, but some people seem to think so. 0.99

00:00:09.040 We'll talk about that. 0.99

00:00:09.720 Also, a feminist in a college newspaper says that leaving the toilet seat up is patriarchal oppression. 1.00

00:00:15.740 And what about the economic argument for abortion that people use sometimes?

00:00:19.700 I'll try to talk about how we can respond to that.

00:00:22.380 And finally, I will also respond to some of the very angry emails

00:00:26.540 that I received from our discussion yesterday about using the Bible in arguments.

00:00:31.100 So, packed show today on the Matt Wall Show.

00:00:38.920 So, I had a great time at Boston University last night.

00:00:42.480 Next stop will be Baylor University, which I was told last night that, you know,

00:00:48.360 Boston University, Baylor University, the real BU is Boston.

00:00:52.480 They were very clear about that.

00:00:53.540 So, I'll be there next Tuesday, and I suspect that that will not be quite as easygoing as it was here in Boston,

00:01:02.620 which was nice.

00:01:03.900 Interesting enough, I come up here to Boston to a liberal area, secular school,

00:01:08.880 and there's no problem at all.

00:01:10.200 You know, it's perfectly respectful.

00:01:12.060 There were some people that showed up at the talk that disagreed,

00:01:14.100 but we had a respectful exchange.

00:01:16.140 But then going to Texas to a Christian school, that's where there's apparently going to be some problems.

00:01:24.280 Anyway, that's not really the point.

00:01:26.740 The point is, what I wanted to mention from last night,

00:01:28.960 is I went out to eat with some of the students afterwards,

00:01:33.060 and they were all very nice, and I enjoyed it.

00:01:35.480 But at this restaurant, on the menu, in the taco section, there was a little note that said that the corn tortillas are gluten-aware.

00:01:47.120 Not gluten-free.

00:01:48.740 They're gluten-aware corn tortillas.

00:01:51.440 So, I don't know what that means exactly.

00:01:55.040 Does that mean that the tortillas will, like, give you a speech about gluten to raise awareness?

00:02:00.240 Or is the chef back there lecturing the tortillas about gluten to make them aware of it?

00:02:07.000 I don't know.

00:02:07.480 I tried to ask the waitress, but it wasn't much help.

00:02:11.100 So, maybe it's just a Boston thing.

00:02:14.740 I have no idea.

00:02:16.280 So, I want to touch on a number of topics here,

00:02:19.920 and then leave time for a bunch of emails at the end on a Friday.

00:02:23.540 So, first, Tucker Carlson is taking some heat today because he had the audacity, the gall,

00:02:31.080 to suggest that immigrants should assimilate into our country. 0.51

00:02:34.980 And he's been accused of white nationalism for making this case in his monologue on a show last night.

00:02:40.120 I'll play you a clip, but just a warning, if you've got little kids in the room,

00:02:43.600 maybe usher them out because this is pretty disturbing stuff.

00:02:46.020 Watch this.

00:02:46.740 Who should we prefer?

00:02:48.260 What's the ideal level of education an immigrant to this country should have? 1.00

00:02:52.220 Big business doesn't want you to ask this question.

00:02:54.700 They like their immigrants low-skilled and cheap. 1.00

00:02:57.180 Ocasio-Cortez does, too.

00:02:59.300 But what happens when technology kills their jobs?

00:03:01.600 And it will.

00:03:02.760 All the major Democrats running for president take money from the technology barons.

00:03:06.600 Many of them support self-driving cars.

00:03:08.940 So, what do you do with hundreds of thousands of unemployed immigrant cab drivers?

00:03:13.040 Do they all go on welfare?

00:03:14.980 And speaking of, what sort of government services are immigrants entitled to, exactly?

00:03:19.080 Democrats promise universal health care.

00:03:20.800 Do immigrants get that, too?

00:03:22.340 Who pays for it? 0.99

00:03:23.480 How many immigrants can our system support? 1.00

00:03:25.740 Do we have enough doctors and nurses and hospitals to treat the number of immigrants we want to admit? 1.00

00:03:30.660 Same question for schools.

00:03:32.640 The real answer is, of course, nobody knows.

00:03:34.920 Because, as of today, we have no idea how many immigrants live illegally in the United States.

00:03:40.160 Shouldn't we find out before we make more plans?

00:03:42.700 And once we do find out, what do we do with them?

00:03:45.500 Who gets deported?

00:03:46.780 Anyone?

00:03:47.100 Or do all of them get to stay?

00:03:49.560 What if the real number of people living here illegally is north of 25 million?

00:03:53.560 And that's entirely possible.

00:03:55.020 That's bigger than the population of 48 out of 50 states.

00:03:58.600 It's enough to change this country completely and forever.

00:04:01.360 Do all of them get citizenship and voting rights? 0.94

00:04:04.140 What about gun rights?

00:04:05.500 And do they immediately start paying into the reparations for slavery fund that Democrats are now promoting?

00:04:10.380 How will you explain that to them?

00:04:11.780 Can we watch that conversation?

00:04:14.580 And finally, what about America's ideals?

00:04:16.560 Democrats are always talking about values when the subject of immigration comes up.

00:04:20.300 They quote from the poem on the Statue of Liberty and tell you about their grandparents.

00:04:24.220 Well, previous wave-shaped immigrants were asked to buy into this country's most basic ideals. 1.00

00:04:28.960 Religious pluralism, free speech, political freedom, equality under the law.

00:04:33.820 Our schools made them learn English and tried to instill patriotism.

00:04:36.880 We called it assimilation. 0.80

00:04:39.280 We thought it was critical to our social cohesion.

00:04:42.080 Are we still for that?

00:04:43.420 Do we still think we have values to impart?

00:04:46.500 Oh, dear God.

00:04:48.280 What a horrifying...

00:04:50.360 Oh, wait, no, no, no, actually, that's not horrifying.

00:04:52.080 That actually makes perfect sense.

00:04:53.560 And it's totally reasonable.

00:04:54.900 And the bit about immigrants contributing to reparations was pretty good.

00:05:01.560 Because I suspect that liberals would say that immigrants should not pay into reparations.

00:05:07.220 But if they don't, then what about people who immigrated here 10 years ago?

00:05:11.700 And if they don't have to contribute, then what about people whose parents immigrated here?

00:05:15.780 And if they don't have to contribute, what about if your grandparents did?

00:05:17.880 What about if your great-grandparents did?

00:05:19.180 It seems like if the answer is that, well, no, of course, an immigrant wouldn't pay in 1.00

00:05:27.160 because they weren't even in this country when any of this stuff was happening.

00:05:31.280 Well, yeah, I agree.

00:05:33.420 But first of all, none of us were in this country when slavery was happening.

00:05:36.960 And second of all, most of us, our families weren't even here.

00:05:40.900 So it seems like if they're off the hook, then we all should be.

00:05:43.720 But the greater point is about assimilation, which, no, is not a white nationalist conspiracy.

00:05:49.580 In fact, it may surprise some leftists to learn that, you know, there are 195 countries in the world.

00:05:58.140 Most of them are not white.

00:05:59.660 And the thing is, if you immigrate to any of those non-white countries, you will be expected to assimilate. 0.89

00:06:06.180 This is the case in any country, white or non-white. 0.81

00:06:09.320 So assimilation is not a code word for white nationalism.

00:06:12.960 It's got nothing to do with whiteness at all.

00:06:17.080 Leftists pretend not to understand this basic idea that assimilation is not about racism.

00:06:23.080 It's about social cohesion.

00:06:25.140 It's about maintaining an actual country.

00:06:28.720 And it really is that simple.

00:06:30.660 You see, some of us want an actual country.

00:06:33.700 We want a country, not just a geographic area where a bunch of us happen to live.

00:06:37.880 We want an actual country, a real-life country, meaning a place with a shared culture, a shared language, shared values, shared traditions, all of that.

00:06:46.100 That's what we want.

00:06:47.280 That's what a country is.

00:06:48.880 And we Americans are entitled to that.

00:06:51.120 Yes, I don't use the word very often, but we are entitled to that.

00:06:54.920 We are entitled to live in a country that is a country.

00:06:57.800 One of the most basic rights that we have as Americans is America itself.

00:07:03.520 We have a right to that.

00:07:07.000 And when I say we have a right to that, what I really mean is that our leaders, our politicians, have a responsibility to protect that, to protect our national identity.

00:07:18.940 And to protect the social cohesion.

00:07:26.360 You know, it's often said that we are a nation of immigrants.

00:07:30.020 And that's true in a sense.

00:07:32.820 But the difference is that immigrants in the early days of America came here and they helped to form our cultural identity.

00:07:40.600 They helped to build our country.

00:07:42.960 Okay.

00:07:44.160 Immigrants today, though, it's a very different situation.

00:07:46.660 They are not building the country because it's already built.

00:07:50.340 And oftentimes, they're not even interested in being part of our culture.

00:07:53.580 They want to come here and do their own thing.

00:07:55.540 They want to have their own little country unto itself, their own language, their own culture, values, history, traditions, everything.

00:08:02.500 So rather than building a country, they are balkanizing the country, which is an entirely different thing.

00:08:08.340 It's actually the opposite.

00:08:10.480 I've made this point before about the advantage of marrying young.

00:08:14.320 And I think there's kind of a parallel here.

00:08:16.660 So the advantage of marrying when you're like 20 years old or something, even though I did.

00:08:21.340 I married when I was 25.

00:08:22.440 But even then, that was pretty young by today's standards.

00:08:25.520 The advantage of marrying young is that you sort of get in on the ground floor with your spouse.

00:08:31.220 And you build a life together.

00:08:33.700 You start from scratch together.

00:08:35.900 And you do all of this together.

00:08:37.560 You form a common identity rather easily because you enter each other's lives when neither of you really have anything.

00:08:46.540 You don't own anything.

00:08:47.660 You don't have anything.

00:08:49.060 You don't have much of a life of your own.

00:08:52.960 And so you form that together.

00:08:54.120 But when you marry late, which plenty of people marry late and have wonderful marriages, but there's a challenge.

00:09:01.000 And the challenge is when you marry late, you already have your own life.

00:09:04.000 You have your own identity, your own house, your own finances, your own car, your own job, your own goals, your own history, maybe even your own kids.

00:09:10.340 And so now you're trying to combine these two separate identities at that point and form one thing, which isn't impossible, but it's harder.

00:09:20.940 Well, I think a similar thing is happening with immigrants, right? 1.00

00:09:24.900 Immigrants 200 years ago, well, they're like marrying young, right? 1.00

00:09:29.200 Because they're getting in on the ground floor when we were still sort of figuring out what America is, what it's all about, building it, forming it.

00:09:37.440 Immigrants today, though, are different.

00:09:41.040 That's like a late marriage.

00:09:43.040 They are coming when everything is already formed.

00:09:46.480 They've got their own thing going on.

00:09:48.720 We've got this thing already happening.

00:09:51.300 And so they come here and it's already established.

00:09:54.340 And many times they're coming here to take advantage of the system that's already been built rather than to contribute to it.

00:10:02.240 That doesn't mean that we should prevent everyone from coming, but it does mean that we need to focus all the more on assimilation. 1.00

00:10:07.440 Because we need to realize that there are already going to be just naturally certain challenges that we have to face with immigration today as opposed to 200 years ago.

00:10:21.320 And then it makes it all the more challenging when you factor in all the illegal immigration and the welfare systems that they can take advantage of and everything else.

00:10:29.020 Okay, so this is kind of funny.

00:10:34.200 And I want to read, by the way, I am a little under the weather today, so I feel like my voice sounds like a dying buffalo or something.

00:10:42.060 And it's because of that.

00:10:43.760 So I apologize for that.

00:10:44.540 So, someone sent me an editorial from their college newspaper.

00:10:50.680 This is from Luther College.

00:10:53.840 And I love when people send me crazy editorials from their college newspapers.

00:10:58.660 And so I encourage you to do that.

00:11:00.180 If you stumble across a crazy editorial in your college newspaper, please send it to me.

00:11:03.640 I want to do a regular segment.

00:11:05.060 And we'll call the segment, you know, just brainstorming, we'll call it Crazy Editorials in College Newspapers.

00:11:10.860 And so if you ever happen to cross one, please send it.

00:11:13.680 This was sent to me by a concerned citizen of Luther College.

00:11:19.180 And I will read it to you.

00:11:21.800 It's written by a woman who's upset by the goings-on at Legends, which I guess Legends is the building on campus where people go to work, go to work out, and stuff like that.

00:11:34.180 And so the article is titled, An Open Letter to Whoever Left the Seat Up in Legends the Other Day.

00:11:40.080 You know this is going to be good.

00:11:42.380 It says,

00:11:42.780 I work out a lot when I'm stressed.

00:11:45.640 So naturally, I was in Legends almost every day last week.

00:11:49.620 And upon spending a lot of time there recently, I have discovered some of my new favorite things about Luther's state-of-the-art workout facility.

00:11:56.760 I just think it's great how I can walk in there and be instantly transported to a front-row seat at a country music festival because of how loud the music is playing.

00:12:04.700 It's also so cute when guys stare at me less than three feet away while I'm finishing using the machine.

00:12:09.420 And while we're on the topic, it's awesome when men don't clean machines after they use them. 0.65

00:12:14.240 And by great and cute and awesome, I mean that it's extremely problematic and it needs to be addressed.

00:12:20.580 Because this is not about the toilet.

00:12:22.980 It never was.

00:12:24.180 This is about the toxic masculinity that plagues the Legends for Life Fitness Center and the fact that I cannot work out on campus without stepping into a reformed gentleman's club.

00:12:32.540 And when you do things like bounce around from machine to machine with little disregard for others using it, shout and yell on the floor as your friends lift weights, or leave the toilet seat up in a unisex bathroom, the titular event of this opinion piece, you perpetuate the stereotype of many workout facilities that women are a secondary thought when it comes to athletics. 0.99

00:12:50.340 Don't believe the history of sexism that plagues athletics and Luther specifically?

00:12:55.500 I encourage you to look through the recent series of Women in Motion in Chips for countless examples of how female student-athletes have been historically marginalized by the athletic department.

00:13:04.580 The last time I identified as an athlete was my sophomore year of high school as a middle hitter for the junior varsity volleyball team.

00:13:10.720 So you could say that I'm more than a little removed from the world of athletics.

00:13:13.620 So the fact that I, someone who only steps foot in regions a few times a week for a quick workout, can pick up on the sexism in that building is incredibly upsetting.

00:13:22.700 I could not even imagine what it would be like for that to be a more integral part of my life.

00:13:26.760 There are small, tangible things that Lutheran legends can do to change the sexist workout culture.

00:13:31.980 Maybe start with a sign reminding everyone to put the toilet seat down after they're done using it.

00:13:36.240 It's great that both of those bathrooms are unisex, and I don't want that to change, but we need to start treating them like the gender-neutral spaces that they are.

00:13:44.240 Could we also set a limit to the noise level of teams when they're lifting weights on the main floor?

00:13:48.800 I understand that team camaraderie is important, but that does not mean that the music should be turned up as loud as possible and that loud yelling should ensue every five seconds.

00:13:57.500 Loud yelling ensuing.

00:14:00.260 There's a lot of loud yelling that ensues in my home because I have three kids, and so I understand that.

00:14:07.660 It is completely disrespectful to everyone else in the room.

00:14:09.980 There are some small things that I believe would help, but there are also larger structural things that need to change.

00:14:15.320 To my male allies, do not be a bystander.

00:14:18.060 I know this is hard, but your friends need you to advocate on behalf of them when we aren't in the room.

00:14:23.680 Push your teammates to change the way they talk about women.

00:14:26.280 Think about the implications of your actions when working out.

00:14:28.760 To my fellow women, non-binary friends, and everyone else who may feel marginalized in regions or legends, please, please do not be complicit.

00:14:36.880 So, my friend who left the toilet seat up, I hope you can now understand how this one seemingly small act is so much more than that.

00:14:45.820 You should not leave a mark of your masculinity on a space like you're a dog urinating marking its territory,

00:14:51.840 especially when that's supposed to be a gender-neutral and inclusive area.

00:14:56.320 Be better. Do better.

00:14:57.780 We're supposed to have gender equality at Luther in 2019, so let's all start acting like it. 1.00

00:15:06.240 Really, I should have been wagging my finger through the whole thing, because just imagine the finger wagging.

00:15:12.300 So, there you go.

00:15:13.200 I love that phrasing there. It was great.

00:15:16.520 Leaving a mark of your masculinity on a space.

00:15:19.220 Well, now you've just made me want to leave the toilet seat up even more,

00:15:22.380 because I feel like I want to leave a mark of my masculinity on a space, in any space that I'm in.

00:15:29.740 Oh, my Lord.

00:15:31.960 First of all, the toilet seat thing, I, you know, who, who says?

00:15:38.200 I've never understood.

00:15:38.880 Why is it that men should put it down, but women shouldn't? 1.00

00:15:41.720 Maybe women, after you're done, you should put the toilet seat up for us. 1.00

00:15:46.880 Have you ever thought about that?

00:15:47.740 Well, stop leaving marks of your femininity all over the bathroom. 1.00

00:15:54.980 And, and, but really, I think when it comes down to it, see, when I walk into a bathroom,

00:16:00.040 and I see that the toilet seat is down, but I want it to be up,

00:16:06.600 I don't break down in tears and say, what is this doing down?

00:16:11.440 Oh, no.

00:16:12.560 Oh, Lord, what am I supposed to do?

00:16:14.540 The toilet seat is down.

00:16:16.020 Help.

00:16:16.820 Help.

00:16:18.220 No, I don't do that.

00:16:19.240 You see, you see, what I do is I just, I just, I just lift it up.

00:16:22.960 So I, I just do that.

00:16:24.560 Right?

00:16:25.380 So, and it, it takes like one and a half seconds.

00:16:27.920 Really, it's all, that's all it takes.

00:16:29.420 In fact, I want, if you're, if you're watching right now, pull out a stopwatch.

00:16:32.820 Okay?

00:16:33.380 Pull out a stopwatch.

00:16:34.460 I want you to time me because I want to, we're going to do an experiment here.

00:16:37.260 Um, okay, so pull it out.

00:16:41.020 And let's, I'm going to mime putting a toilet seat down and see how long it takes.

00:16:45.080 All right?

00:16:45.540 So, okay, ready?

00:16:46.640 Go.

00:16:46.840 How long did that take me?

00:16:50.200 Two seconds?

00:16:50.780 Maybe one and a half?

00:16:52.020 In fact, I bet if you add it up, cumulatively, all of the time that this woman has spent 0.73

00:16:57.780 putting toilet seats down in her entire life, it would not add up to the amount of time it 0.86

00:17:01.820 took for her to write this article complaining about it because it really doesn't take any

00:17:05.520 time at all.

00:17:05.960 Now, and really, I know that, you know, if you're in a public restroom, you're not going

00:17:08.600 to use your hands, you're going to use your foot.

00:17:10.000 So it's going to be more like, you know, like, uh, you're raising your foot up.

00:17:13.580 Um, but my Lord, this is like machine gun nagging.

00:17:23.280 Uh, it was just one after another, one after, and another thing.

00:17:28.760 I'm tired of the loud music in this room too.

00:17:31.260 Uh, can you imagine what this gal's boyfriend must have to cope with on a daily basis?

00:17:37.400 Honestly, I, I, and I don't mean this as an insult, but I really, really don't understand

00:17:41.240 how feminists ever manage to find boyfriends or spouses. 1.00

00:17:45.260 I mean, how could a man tolerate this for even one day?

00:17:52.200 Can you imagine having to sit there and, and listen to her complain about sexism at the 1.00

00:17:56.900 fitness center?

00:17:57.520 Can you imagine, because you just, can you even imagine what that would be like?

00:18:02.380 This is why I, you know, my wife is not a feminist. 1.00

00:18:05.320 Thank God.

00:18:05.840 I, I, we would not have worked if she was a feminist. 1.00

00:18:08.420 It's one of the first things I asked when we sat down for dinner on our first date, because

00:18:12.860 if she had told me she's a feminist, I would have said, all right, you know what? 1.00

00:18:15.040 I'm going to leave.

00:18:15.620 I'll let you pay because you're a strong, independent woman.

00:18:17.680 And let's just cut this thing off now because this isn't going to work.

00:18:21.300 Um, but actually I think the first time I asked my wife, if she's a feminist, she laughed. 1.00

00:18:25.280 Uh, she laughed and then she launched into a whole argument, a whole rant about, about 0.83

00:18:30.440 her problems with feminism.

00:18:31.660 And I said, okay, this now, this is yes.

00:18:34.400 This, this is marry me now.

00:18:36.080 Let's just get married now.

00:18:37.000 In fact, just based on that, I will, let's just cut out the rest of it and let's just

00:18:41.580 get married.

00:18:42.620 Um, I mean, that almost literally would happen.

00:18:45.640 And I proposed to her after like six months, it's, it's, you know, this, this woman says

00:18:51.000 that men need to hold each other accountable.

00:18:53.080 I agree.

00:18:54.420 And so that's why I'm saying to other men, don't date feminists. 0.99

00:18:57.700 It's not worth it. 0.89

00:18:58.980 Don't do that to yourself and don't do it to them either because they obviously hate men.

00:19:02.560 So don't, don't inflict yourself on them and don't allow them to inflict themselves on

00:19:07.560 you.

00:19:09.540 All right.

00:19:10.240 Um, so that was good.

00:19:11.760 That was good fun though.

00:19:12.480 I appreciated that.

00:19:15.020 Uh, one other thing before we get to emails, I said, I was, I was speaking at Boston university

00:19:19.800 last night.

00:19:20.300 The talk was on abortion and, uh, I went through and I tried to thoroughly respond to what I

00:19:26.600 consider to be the top four pro-abortion arguments.

00:19:29.760 Um, one, you know, the first argument that unborn babies, aren't people to bodily autonomy,

00:19:37.180 three, um, rape and incest.

00:19:39.100 And then four, that people are going to get abortions anyway. 1.00

00:19:41.980 So you might as well have a safe and clean place for them to do it.

00:19:44.180 So that doesn't end up in a back alley.

00:19:45.580 So I responded to all those arguments.

00:19:47.100 I tried to debunk them and I have to say credit where credit is due, uh, to myself in

00:19:52.120 this case, I did a great job.

00:19:54.080 Now there's another argument for abortion that I consider to be so weak that, uh, I didn't

00:20:00.500 spend really any time at all on it, but it came up a lot in the Q and a.

00:20:05.320 And then again, at dinner, um, not so much because the people bringing it up were themselves

00:20:11.720 making the argument, but because they said they encounter this argument a lot and they

00:20:14.940 wanted to know how to deal with it.

00:20:16.640 Um, and that is the argument from socioeconomics.

00:20:20.080 The idea that we need abortion because it helps the economy.

00:20:23.340 And if you get rid of abortion, it would hurt the economy because now you have more poor 0.91

00:20:27.400 people and poor mothers with babies that they, that they can't feed and so on.

00:20:31.080 Um, so that's, that's the, that's the argument.

00:20:35.140 The next time I give a talk on this, I guess I'll spend more time on it.

00:20:38.300 Um, even if I think the argument is silly, uh, it, it, it is, it's apparently convincing

00:20:42.800 to a lot of people, but I will address it here very quickly.

00:20:47.560 Um, so there are two basic responses to the socioeconomic argument for abortion, um, to

00:20:56.540 the idea that it helps the economy.

00:20:59.480 Abortion helps the economy.

00:21:01.420 Number one, so what?

00:21:04.420 Um, it doesn't matter.

00:21:06.120 It's irrelevant.

00:21:08.300 It is, it is never acceptable to justify murder for economic reasons.

00:21:14.440 Murder is never okay for economic reasons.

00:21:17.100 The pro-life case is that babies are human, um, that all living humans are people and that

00:21:27.580 it is never okay to intentionally directly kill an innocent defenseless human being.

00:21:33.720 That's our whole case.

00:21:35.600 That's all we're saying.

00:21:36.980 It's very simple.

00:21:37.740 And none of that is affected by the economy.

00:21:42.920 It doesn't, it doesn't change one way or another, depending on what's going on with

00:21:46.320 the economy.

00:21:46.800 It doesn't make a difference.

00:21:47.860 And so even if you could look into a crystal ball and show me that abolishing abortion would

00:21:54.400 plunge our country into poverty and destitution, I would still say without hesitation, absolutely.

00:22:00.040 Let's do it.

00:22:01.860 I'm ready.

00:22:04.040 Because I would rather live in a poor country that does not kill babies than in a rich country

00:22:10.640 that does.

00:22:11.260 And throughout history, um, it has always ended in massive amounts of bloodshed once countries

00:22:21.120 start to justify murder for socioeconomic reasons.

00:22:24.080 And we are not the first ones to do it.

00:22:25.720 But slavery was, was, was, was justified on largely socioeconomic reasons, uh, on a largely

00:22:32.900 socioeconomic basis.

00:22:34.060 It was not just that the racist slave owners, although of course they were racist, uh, but

00:22:40.760 it wasn't just like on principle that they thought that, um, you know, these black people 0.97

00:22:46.100 deserve to be enslaved. 0.90

00:22:47.180 Uh, you know, they did have that attitude, but, but more important to them was, it was

00:22:51.900 about the money, right?

00:22:53.440 It was about the bottom line.

00:22:54.240 That's what it always comes down to for, for people, especially evil people.

00:22:57.560 And they said, look, slavery helps the economy. 0.98

00:23:00.900 You get rid of slavery, our entire economy is going to collapse.

00:23:04.200 Uh, not only do you, do you, do you collapse our means of, of, uh, of, you know, production,

00:23:10.640 but, um, you also then create all of these new mouths to feed, uh, what are we going to

00:23:18.980 do with all of the, of all the black people? 0.98

00:23:21.280 And, and that's where other racist, uh, white people who are not quite as racist about a 0.96

00:23:26.780 slave, slave owners, but still pretty racist said that, well, we should just ship them all 0.81

00:23:30.160 back to Africa, even if they've never lived there before they were born here. 0.88

00:23:33.280 They've been here.

00:23:34.200 Uh, you know, their family's been here for hundreds of years.

00:23:36.040 We just ship them back to Africa. 1.00

00:23:37.020 That was, that was Abraham Lincoln solution originally.

00:23:40.640 Um, but, and, and you know what, here's the thing, the slave owners who made that point

00:23:49.100 that destroying, that getting rid of slavery will destroy the Southern economy, you know

00:23:54.580 something they were right.

00:23:56.180 It would, and it did destroy the Southern economy, but so what?

00:24:03.080 Okay.

00:24:03.640 Your economy shouldn't be based on slavery in the first place.

00:24:06.140 And if it is, then you just need to deal with that.

00:24:08.720 It doesn't matter.

00:24:09.980 That is not, it's, it's, it's, it, it, it, it does not affect it one way or another.

00:24:16.160 Um, we, I, we are not going to be even a little bit swayed by this.

00:24:20.280 The simple fact of the matter is slavery means you are dehumanizing a person.

00:24:24.180 You are forcing them to work for you like, like, uh, like cattle.

00:24:27.180 You're treating them like farm animals and that is never okay, no matter how much it helps

00:24:31.320 the economy.

00:24:31.840 And it's the same thing with babies.

00:24:34.520 You're dehumanizing them. 1.00

00:24:35.920 You're treating them like parasites. 0.99

00:24:37.120 You're killing 60 million human, 60 million human beings over the course of 45 years. 0.99

00:24:41.300 I don't care how much it helps the economy.

00:24:44.180 It's wrong.

00:24:44.880 But the second point is that actually it does not help the economy because, um, what you

00:24:53.060 have now is, is in our culture, the sexual act has been severed, you know, or, or, or the,

00:25:02.500 the life giving aspect of the sexual act has been severed from the sort of pleasurable aspect

00:25:07.740 of it and because people know that they can be reckless and they can just do whatever they

00:25:13.800 want, be irresponsible sexually. 0.90

00:25:16.440 And, uh, and they know that push comes to shove. 1.00

00:25:18.420 They can always just kill the baby. 0.99

00:25:20.280 Um, even if they don't call it killing a baby, but they know that. 0.99

00:25:24.300 And so that encourages people to be sexually irresponsible.

00:25:28.220 And so then you end up with even more unwanted pregnancies, STDs and all the rest of it.

00:25:33.660 Um, if abortion was illegal, um, now in, in the short term, it, it, it would have, it would 0.81

00:25:42.080 create challenges economically, socially, but that's just something we got to deal with

00:25:47.340 long-term though.

00:25:48.740 I think long-term we'll, we'll end up in a better spot economically because people are

00:25:52.400 going to have to start being responsible and maybe, you know, don't have sex with whoever 0.95

00:25:56.760 you happen to meet on the street corner.

00:25:58.700 Uh, maybe wait until you're in a devoted and committed relationship called a marriage.

00:26:03.660 Before you have sex, I think people will be more and more encouraged to do that. 0.76

00:26:06.820 And when you start doing that, it helps the culture.

00:26:08.920 It helps everybody.

00:26:09.440 And it helps the economy.

00:26:11.340 Strong families are good for the economy.

00:26:14.020 Absolutely.

00:26:14.640 One hundred percent.

00:26:17.260 All right.

00:26:18.280 Um, so let's go to emails.

00:26:24.480 This is from a Matt wall show, uh, Matt wall show at gmail.com is the email.

00:26:29.320 Matt wall show at gmail.com is the email address.

00:26:31.940 From Leonard, Matt, I like your opinions on politics, but you are awful on Christianity. 1.00

00:26:39.500 That's probably because you are not a Christian. 0.97

00:26:42.380 You are an idol worshiper. 0.99

00:26:44.120 What you said on your show yesterday was insane.

00:26:47.780 Christians can never deny the authority of the Bible.

00:26:50.200 When we do, we have already lost the argument.

00:26:52.720 Yes.

00:26:52.960 Every argument does go back to the Bible and it should. 1.00

00:26:55.500 If someone has the presupposition that the Bible is false, they need to re-examine that

00:27:00.680 presupposition.

00:27:01.500 And until they do, there's no hope anyway.

00:27:04.400 Uh, um, they, they will never be convinced of anything anyway, until they accept the gospel

00:27:10.800 message.

00:27:11.300 First, everyone knows that God is real, even if they don't admit it.

00:27:14.840 That's why biblical arguments are always valid. 0.96

00:27:18.180 You are horrible on theology and you should really shut up about it. 0.67

00:27:21.660 I won't be listening anymore, but I wanted to set you straight. 0.98

00:27:24.660 I wanted to set you straight on this.

00:27:27.900 Okay, Leonard.

00:27:28.600 Well, you apparently have run away with your fingers in your ears, so I guess there's no

00:27:31.900 point in responding to you, but I will anyway.

00:27:33.500 Anyway, um, let me try to help you out a little bit, because I suspect, Leonard, that you probably

00:27:39.980 have never persuaded anyone of anything in your entire life.

00:27:43.460 And I arrive at that assumption based on how you have just framed your argument here.

00:27:47.280 Uh, maybe you're having a bad day or something, so maybe this doesn't represent how you normally

00:27:50.840 approach things.

00:27:51.460 I hope it doesn't, because you begin with a series of insults, um, which already shuts

00:27:56.180 everything down.

00:27:56.880 You see, you see, now I am going to overlook those insults so that I can engage with you.

00:28:00.680 But most of the time, when you begin with an insult, whoever you're talking to is not

00:28:06.000 going to want to hear it.

00:28:07.980 And especially if you're ostensibly, supposedly pretending that you're trying to advance the

00:28:13.000 gospel and get someone to believe in the Bible, um, well, now they're definitely not going

00:28:17.920 to listen to you, and they shouldn't, because of how terribly you frame the argument.

00:28:23.800 Um, why, why should someone listen to you about the Bible when you begin by insulting

00:28:28.400 them?

00:28:28.720 Why should they take you seriously?

00:28:32.860 Uh, so, uh, so, but you begin with insults, then you get into straw men, distortions, uh,

00:28:42.400 lies, confused thinking, and it's just a mess, really, all the way down the line.

00:28:47.040 Um, and if you're wondering why you have probably never succeeded in convincing anyone of anything

00:28:51.800 ever in your life, this is probably the reason when you insult people and lie about their positions,

00:28:56.360 you just will not be able to connect. So let me try to respond piece by piece here.

00:29:00.220 And by the way, if you, if you, if you didn't hear the show yesterday, what he's responding

00:29:03.800 to is that I said that Christians should not argue about cultural and political issues with 0.66

00:29:09.040 non-Christians by throwing Bible verses at them. If a person doesn't believe in the Bible, 0.65

00:29:13.560 they will not find an appeal to the Bible to be convincing. Therefore, it's better to find common

00:29:18.460 ground with them, which is a basic essential aspect of persuasion, engage with them on that

00:29:24.140 level with logic, reason, and science rather than just shouting verses from a book that they think

00:29:28.860 is mythological. That was the point that our friend Leonard thinks is not only wrong, but insane.

00:29:34.420 Now he thinks it's insane to try to find common ground with your opponent and talk to them in

00:29:39.840 language and using terms and appealing to authorities that they understand and respect. He thinks that

00:29:44.460 that is actually insane. Like he doesn't even understand how you could even think that that's

00:29:48.560 the right way to go about it. Um, and he's not alone. I got a lot of email like this and, uh,

00:29:54.320 most of it was equally as insulting. And, um, uh, you know, I, I, I gotta say, honestly, and I,

00:30:02.760 you know, I, I've mentioned the show plenty of times, the, the hate mail, angry emails I get,

00:30:09.300 that doesn't surprise you. Right. I mean, anyone in this line of work gets a lot of hate mail and it's not

00:30:13.400 a big deal. Um, doesn't, doesn't, you know, doesn't, uh, doesn't really hurt my feelings.

00:30:19.200 I'm pretty impervious to it by now, but I really have to say that some of the nastiest and most

00:30:25.460 vicious emails I get without a doubt are from, um, supposedly Bible believing Christians without 1.00

00:30:33.700 question. You know, the times in, in, in my, uh, in my writing or in my show, when I have tried to

00:30:41.500 challenge Christians on something, or I have brought up a theological topic that they found 0.58

00:30:44.920 challenging, that is when I get the most of vicious emails. And what you just read there is

00:30:50.920 nothing compared to some of the other stuff that I get. Um, although that is, that was pretty damn 0.93

00:30:56.340 vicious. Now he didn't cuss me out or anything like that, but you begin now I'm Christian, right?

00:31:04.440 My, my faith is, is the most important thing to me. So you begin by just trying to, to spit all over

00:31:10.300 that and say, well, you're not even a Christian. You don't even believe this. You're, you're, you are,

00:31:15.000 you begin by pretending that you can peer into my soul and just call me a fraud about the thing

00:31:19.860 that is most important to me in my life. Now it doesn't, again, it doesn't hurt my feelings. I'm

00:31:23.040 used to it, but that is such a despicable and vicious and pointless and stupid thing to do. 1.00

00:31:30.760 Um, and the only reason you do it is just to make yourself feel better. It's got nothing to do 0.99

00:31:35.880 with anything else. It's not, you're not trying to spread the gospel. You're not, this isn't about

00:31:39.660 Jesus. This isn't about, no, this is just about you making yourself feel better. That's all it's

00:31:43.960 about. Um, so you start by saying that I am denying the authority of the Bible and thus losing the

00:31:54.220 argument already. Um, first of all, if we're not arguing about, if we're not arguing about the Bible,

00:32:00.200 then I don't see how I lose the argument, which is not about the Bible. When I don't even bring up

00:32:05.100 the Bible in the first place, that just makes no sense. Um, but just because you fail to cite

00:32:11.680 an authority doesn't mean that you're denying the validity of that authority. And by the way,

00:32:20.020 I, I also said, I just said, I referred to the Bible as an authority. And I guess I did that

00:32:25.460 yesterday too. And I got a ton of email about that. It says you call the Bible an authority when

00:32:30.400 you should have said the authority. Oh my gosh. I mean, can you, uh, what are you just sitting

00:32:35.800 there with like a notepad ready to, I'm going to, anytime he, if he slips up with one little

00:32:40.120 word, I'm going to get him. Oh, he said, and not the, I got it. Well, I'm writing an email on this

00:32:44.100 one. Can you just try to listen and engage with the whole point instead of trying to pick apart

00:32:50.100 every little thing that you can find? Um, so when you fail to cite an authority doesn't mean that

00:33:00.220 you are denying the validity of that authority. Uh, and I'm not saying that in an argument with an

00:33:09.860 atheist, we should begin by apostatizing just to find common ground. I'm not saying that we should 0.96

00:33:14.360 begin the argument. If we're arguing about abortion, I'm not saying we begin by saying, uh, just so you

00:33:18.680 know what it's at the outset here, I deny the authority of the Bible. No, I, I absolutely

00:33:23.320 agree with you that that would be a bad way for a Christian to begin an argument. Um, no, I'm saying 1.00

00:33:28.400 that if you're going to make an argument against abortion, just point out the biological fact that

00:33:34.820 babies are human people. That is a biological fact. And then explain how killing them is murder.

00:33:41.080 And if you're talking to someone who already thinks that murder is wrong, which you definitely are,

00:33:45.660 um, it's just that they think that isn't murder. So no, you don't need to convince them that murder

00:33:50.720 is wrong. They already think that now you could say, well, they have no real basis for thinking

00:33:54.380 that because they don't believe in, in the Bible. That may be the case, but they still think it.

00:33:59.640 So, so seize on that common ground, that common understanding that they already have.

00:34:06.080 And then try to explain to them how abortion fits into that category of murder. If you can do that, 0.61

00:34:11.720 you have convinced them it's possible. Um, you aren't denying the Bible. You just aren't bringing

00:34:18.880 it up. If your opponent brings it up, then yeah, well now game is on. They brought it up.

00:34:24.760 When you're arguing with someone, if you want to persuade them, you generally want to appeal to

00:34:29.540 authorities. They themselves recognize and respect because if you appeal to an authority,

00:34:33.860 they don't recognize your argument will carry no weight, even though it should, it still won't.

00:34:37.800 It should, I agree, but it doesn't. It carries weight with me. If you, if you know, a biblical

00:34:43.420 argument for me carries weight, it should carry weight for everybody, but it doesn't. That's the

00:34:47.980 reality deal in reality, not how you think it should be, but how it is. Um, so I cannot stress that

00:34:56.780 enough. Just because you fail to cite a particular authority, that is not the same thing as denying that

00:35:04.460 authority. In any argument, there are probably millions of authorities you could cite, but you

00:35:10.440 don't have a million years to make the argument. So you pick one or two. For example, if I was arguing

00:35:16.580 with a fellow Christian about say biology, um, some biological topic, I would not cite Richard Dawkins

00:35:26.360 as an authority. Now Dawkins is a world renowned biologist. He certainly knows more about the

00:35:33.320 subject than you do or I do. Um, he is a, he's a, he is a scientist. Um, I think he's wrong about a lot

00:35:41.220 of very important things, especially when he ventures outside of biology to get into religion

00:35:45.040 and philosophy. That's when he goes way off the rails. But the point is because he is known for his

00:35:49.600 atheism. I would not cite him as an authority on a biological topic. Even if he is an authority, I

00:35:56.220 wouldn't do that because I know that the other person in the discussion doesn't consider him an

00:36:01.000 authority and, and, and doesn't like him. And there's a lot of baggage there. And so bringing his name up

00:36:07.500 would only muddy the waters. It would turn into an argument about Richard Dawkins instead of about the

00:36:12.040 thing that we're talking about, whatever that happens to be. So I just wouldn't bring his name up.

00:36:15.780 It's not that I would be denying his biological expertise. I've just, I'm just not bringing it

00:36:21.280 up. I just don't bring it up. We don't talk about that. We talk about this instead.

00:36:25.880 Same for if I'm arguing with a liberal on something and, uh, they ask for a citation on a certain point.

00:36:32.420 I say, you know, this or this thing happened. They say, oh yeah, well, when did that happen?

00:36:37.380 Show me an article. Okay. Well, uh, I am not going to pull an article from Fox news for this liberal.

00:36:46.680 Even if the article on Fox news is true, I still won't pull it. Not because I'm denying that it's

00:36:52.600 true, but I know how that person feels about Fox news. And, and so they're not going to be convinced

00:36:58.920 by that. Even if they should be, they won't. And my goal here is to convince them. I actually want

00:37:04.440 to persuade them. The reason that I get into discussion, maybe it's different for some people,

00:37:07.860 but I get into discussions and debates with people because I really want them to understand.

00:37:12.040 And I really do want to persuade them, even if it doesn't happen in the end, that is what

00:37:16.040 I want. That's the only reason I'm doing this. And so I'm going to find an article somewhere

00:37:21.340 else that they, from an authority that they will recognize that will carry more weight

00:37:27.260 with them. Um, I just think that that is really logical, honestly. And I guess, I don't know

00:37:34.360 how else to put it. Like I, I don't even understand. It's hard for me to wrap my head around how

00:37:39.240 anyone could disagree with anything I just said there. It's just, it's the most, this

00:37:43.740 is basic level persuasion. Um, so next you say that, um, we can't, we can't help to convince

00:37:51.460 people of anything until we convince them about the Bible. That is just false. You are, you

00:37:57.780 are wrong. Um, that tells me that you have never succeeded in convincing anyone of anything,

00:38:03.180 which again goes back to the terrible framing of your arguments. I'm trying to help you figure

00:38:06.740 out maybe why you don't convince anyone. I have in my career heard from many, many, many

00:38:14.360 people who told me that I did convince them on a variety of topics. And I'm not saying

00:38:20.400 this to brag. I'm just, there are people who really think that you, that you're never going

00:38:24.120 to convince anyone of anything, especially if they don't believe in the Bible. That's

00:38:27.020 not true. I have done it. I have heard from those people. What were they all lying to me

00:38:30.540 when they come up and say, Oh, you convinced me on this? They're all lying. Um, just last

00:38:36.840 night, it's probably on video just last night, a woman got up. I mean, I couldn't have scripted

00:38:42.620 it any better, although I didn't script it. A woman got up and said that a year ago she

00:38:47.640 was pro abortion, but today she's pro life because of the arguments that I presented and

00:38:53.780 that Ben Shapiro presented. So there you go. She was convinced. And do you know what she

00:38:58.960 was convinced by? She told me what it was. She didn't say, Oh, I was convinced by her

00:39:02.420 theological arguments. I was convinced by the Bible. She said, I was convinced by science.

00:39:07.580 She said, you brought up the scientific arguments. I looked at it. I realized there's no way around

00:39:11.760 it. And she was convinced. So you say it can't be done. It can. I've done it. Okay. A lot of

00:39:19.980 people have done it. Ben Shapiro does it all the time. Okay. Do you know how many college

00:39:25.560 students, atheist, liberal, conservative, Christian, Jewish, Muslim, whoever, do you know how many

00:39:31.480 college students have been convinced by Ben Shapiro's arguments, which are not based on

00:39:35.820 the Bible and which are not even coming from a Christian? So he's done it. I've done it. 0.95

00:39:42.860 I hear from these people. They are nice enough to email me. And I really appreciate it when

00:39:47.000 they do, because it encourages me. It makes me feel like this is all, this is, maybe this

00:39:50.880 isn't all just pointless actually. Um, or, or what do you think? Do you think it's better

00:39:58.020 for that woman who, who, who now she's now pro-life and she embraces, uh, life and it's

00:40:02.800 a beautiful thing. Do you think it's, is it better for her to remain pro-abortion until 0.66

00:40:05.880 she figures out her theology? Is that what you think? So all the people that I have managed

00:40:11.500 to convince of the pro-life case, are you saying it's better for them to all be pro-abortion?

00:40:14.680 Really? Then you talk about presuppositions and how people need to re-examine them. I

00:40:23.360 agree. They do need to examine their presuppositions. We all need to examine our presuppositions. We

00:40:28.300 need to be aware of them. We need to analyze them. We need to know about them. But how do

00:40:31.480 you get someone to do that? How do you get someone to re-examine their presuppositions?

00:40:37.600 Do you get them to re-examine their presuppositions by shouting at them, examine your presuppositions?

00:40:44.680 Uh, I, I suppose that would be one strategy, but it won't work. No, you must get someone

00:40:51.660 to examine their presuppositions in a more nuanced and subtle way. Examining your presuppositions

00:40:58.660 is a difficult and scary thing, and you won't get anyone to do it by shoving it down their

00:41:04.020 throat. It, you just won't. It will not work. So if you can, for instance, succeed in changing

00:41:13.720 someone's mind on something like abortion, a very fundamental, important issue like

00:41:19.600 abortion, then the examination of presuppositions will flow naturally from that because they're

00:41:26.000 going to say, wow, I was wrong about that. What else was I wrong about? You know, if,

00:41:33.240 if somebody is, if you manage to convince someone of something, that means that that is someone

00:41:38.740 who is open-minded, that they're willing to listen, uh, that has intellectual integrity

00:41:43.760 and intellectual courage. Um, and so if they have all those things, which they must, if

00:41:52.280 they were willing to listen to you and be convinced, then they are naturally going to go from there

00:41:57.220 and say, what else am I wrong about? They're going to begin to look at the flaws in their worldview.

00:42:02.560 They will do this on their own without you hectoring them about it. You spark that process

00:42:09.620 by not by demanding it, but by throwing a wrench into their ideological framework, by convincing

00:42:15.960 them on their own terms, using language they understand that they are actually wrong about

00:42:21.120 something. To really convince someone that they're wrong, to really do it, that will inevitably

00:42:27.520 be a revolutionary moment for that person. And they will begin to re-examine things automatically.

00:42:33.120 Um, again, I have been told by people many times that they began the process of becoming

00:42:39.300 Christian and became interested in Christianity, not because of any religious argument I made

00:42:44.700 or any Bible verse I quoted, although I've made many religious arguments and I've quoted

00:42:49.560 many Bible verses. But what I've been told multiple times is, um, is that they decided that I was

00:43:01.360 right about other topics, unconnected from religion. And then this made them think, well, wait a second,

00:43:08.540 what else is he right about? You know, you introduce a little bit of light into that darkness.

00:43:16.060 You get them thinking, re-examining, um, you, you make them understand that they're actually wrong

00:43:25.820 about something and then everything else could flow from there. They begin to take religion more

00:43:31.620 seriously. You know, here's the thing. Atheists, secular people, um, whether they're avowed atheists

00:43:38.440 or not, and most people aren't, they're just secular, right? They don't think much about these things.

00:43:42.280 When they see religious people who they know are religious, when they see them making logical, 0.97

00:43:51.620 rational, common sense, compelling, scientifically sound arguments, um,

00:44:01.980 that is very, it's a very compelling example for them because it lets them know that it's okay to be

00:44:09.080 religious. Smart people can be religious. You don't have to put your reason and your rationality

00:44:14.240 and your logic to the side to be religious. You don't have to reject science to be religious. I

00:44:18.640 mean, these are things that, that a lot of secular people think. They think that I'm never going to

00:44:21.720 be religious because in order to be religious, I have to essentially be a, an irrational moron 1.00

00:44:25.820 who hates science and thinks science is from the devil. That's what a lot of secular people think. 1.00

00:44:31.720 And that's why they won't even look at religion. They're not even going to listen to you

00:44:34.980 because that's how they think of religion. But when they see that's not the case, it completely

00:44:41.320 blows everything apart from them, for them. And they realize that, Oh, wait a second.

00:44:45.880 You mean you can have all of that logic, reason, science, and still be religious? Whoa,

00:44:51.960 hold on a second. And then they start looking. But if you reinforce their view that religious

00:44:58.740 people are irrational, science denying idiots, if you reinforce that by just screaming Bible 0.99

00:45:04.860 verses at them in topics where it's not even directly related, then all you've done is you've 1.00

00:45:09.560 just pushed them away from religion and they'll probably never look at it again. Congratulations. 0.92

00:45:15.000 You have not only not convinced them, but you have maybe made it so that they will never

00:45:19.040 be convinced because you reinforced all of the negative, bad stereotypes and false stereotypes

00:45:26.680 most of the time about religion that they had in their mind. So finally, you say that,

00:45:35.400 and this is why I get so heated about this and so passionate, because I just, you can be logical,

00:45:41.900 rational, reasonable. You can love science. You can understand. You can be all of those things

00:45:46.620 and religious. I want people to know that. And I, and I hate it when these Christians are out there 1.00

00:45:50.460 essentially saying the opposite, basically saying, no, you know what? The atheists are right. 1.00

00:45:54.040 You got it. You can't do that. You're not, no logic and reason. That's idol worship. You're,

00:45:57.880 you're a Satanist science. No, these are a bunch of, they're all a bunch of liars. It's a conspiracy 1.00

00:46:02.860 to take down the Bible. When I hear, when I actually hear this from Christians, I get so angry because 1.00

00:46:07.540 you have no idea how much damage you're doing. Do you realize how many souls you have just consigned

00:46:15.520 forever to secularism? Finally, you say that everyone knows God is real. I agree. That knowledge

00:46:26.660 is innate, natural law. And that's why all people everywhere in the world, all cultures have

00:46:33.940 independently come up with God concepts on their own. But all cultures around the world have not

00:46:40.880 independently on their own come to the conclusion that the new Testament is correct. And Jesus is

00:46:45.240 Lord. Why is that? Because those truths are revealed. They are not innate. And when I say

00:46:53.000 innate, not innate, I mean, they are not conclusions. You just come to on your own. You don't, you didn't.

00:46:59.480 You are a Christian today because someone told you about it. Someone convinced you to be Christian.

00:47:04.740 That's why you're a Christian today. If nobody ever had, you would not be a Christian.

00:47:08.740 Christian. That's a fact. People have to be told these truths. Nobody knows these truths

00:47:16.480 without being told. People can figure out God or some kind of God without being told. But

00:47:21.340 not a single person, you know, not a single person in North or South America believed in

00:47:26.960 Jesus until people came here on boats and told them, convinced them. So conflating our innate

00:47:35.380 knowledge of God with an innate recognition of the validity of Holy Scripture is absurd.

00:47:46.360 Jesus says, go preach the gospel to all nations because, because they won't know it unless you do.

00:47:52.740 And we should, and so we should, we should tell them we should preach it. I'm not saying we shouldn't,

00:47:56.520 but we should also be prudent and wise and rational and convincing, persuasive, and not a bunch of

00:48:05.860 unthinking, self-righteous, pretentious, insulting, irrational Bible thumpers, which is how we are 1.00

00:48:12.320 portrayed. And it's actually how some of us really do behave, much to the embarrassment of the rest of us. 0.78

00:48:19.520 The point is that somebody will believe in the Bible if, number one, you tell them about it.

00:48:28.440 And number two, you give them reasons to believe it. You can't just say, here's the Bible, believe it,

00:48:36.020 you heathen. That's not going to work. You have to give them reasons. And there are good reasons.

00:48:42.880 But the point is, that's a case you have to make. And you do have to make it. And you can't appeal to

00:48:50.640 the Bible until you have made that case and the other person has been convinced of it. So if that

00:48:55.700 case has not been made and they have not been convinced of it, your appeals to authority,

00:48:59.680 even though it is valid authority, will fall on deaf ears, will have no impact at all.

00:49:05.620 And that's just the reality. Listen. Have some humility. Listen to what non-religious, 1.00

00:49:18.840 atheist, secular, non-Christian people tell you. Every single one of them, without exception, 1.00

00:49:24.460 will tell you that when you just throw Bible verses at them and there's no logic, there's no

00:49:29.180 reason, there's no science or anything in your argument, you just throw Bible verses,

00:49:32.300 they just tune you out and it doesn't convince them. Every single one of them will tell you that.

00:49:35.740 Listen to them. Instead of sitting there and saying, no, you know what? I know more about

00:49:40.220 what's happening in their mind than they do. That is so unbelievably arrogant. And who do you think 0.99

00:49:47.620 you are? What do you think? You're God? They're telling you what they find convincing. You're like,

00:49:52.800 no, you know, I know what you find convincing. You don't know what you find convincing. I'll tell you

00:49:56.540 what you find convincing. And then you wonder why they shut you down and shut you out. They should.

00:50:02.040 All right. Let's see here. Well, I spent a lot of time on one email, so I guess that kind of a...

00:50:16.400 Let's see. I'm trying to get one more. One more email. All right. This was from Brian says,

00:50:21.680 Oh, semi-benevolent, highly corrupt, theocratic future dictator, may you live forever. 0.98

00:50:26.020 Thank you. Finally, someone addresses me how I should be addressed. During the required listening 0.99

00:50:29.880 to your show from yesterday, I came up with a bit of a different perspective to the idea of trying to

00:50:33.420 argue with an English speaker in Chinese or literally throwing the Bible at someone who

00:50:36.560 does not hold it as an authority. Besides, in some cases, there is no exact language. But as the

00:50:41.120 first and most life-affirming collection of writings ever created, calling the ancient Jews to be the

00:50:45.020 first people not to build some God and sacrifice children to it, the clarity is in the context.

00:50:49.580 I'll not go down that rabbit hole, the rabbit trail that killing your children has usually been

00:50:53.040 the norm for those not in covenant to God, and that in abortion culture, we're simply seeing those 0.91

00:50:57.800 who reject God returning to the carnal natural desires of the flesh. Back to my point. That was a

00:51:04.060 good point. Imagine you meet a screechy socialist-loving high school teacher. You know the type. If a student

00:51:09.920 has anything pro-America to say, they get shouted down. You want to argue with this person that

00:51:15.300 capitalism is a good thing. Would you use the Constitution as an authority with them? Would

00:51:20.880 you use the Magna Carta or the Federalist and anti-Federalist papers to convince them? As a teacher,

00:51:26.380 there's some chance that they have read those documents. Even if this teacher hasn't read them,

00:51:30.300 they have expressly dismissed these writings in coming to their socialist conclusions while living in

00:51:34.280 the United States. They prefer the shoddily written Green New Deal over the Bill of Rights. 0.71

00:51:38.080 How are you going to convince them of anything worth thinking? The difference with the atheist 1.00

00:51:42.560 is that if you show them some respect, you have some chance of a step in your direction. 0.99

00:51:46.660 You also need to pick your battles and know when you're dealing with a pig that just wants to roll 1.00

00:51:50.180 around in the mud. It's the same way that you would not be able to use the Koran or Hindu, 0.96

00:51:54.700 Buddhist, Scientologists, or any other religion's writings with me because I have dismissed them.

00:51:59.000 The difference is I don't dismiss the people who believe those things. What do you think?

00:52:03.200 It is my hope that the above-fawning gesticulation will ensure my high-ranking position when you come to power.

00:52:08.080 Or at the least, the keeping of my head. Brian, well, as for that last point, I'm afraid

00:52:13.560 I cannot promise you that because you did call me semi-benevolent.

00:52:21.500 And I would be interested to find out where you think the semi comes from.

00:52:25.560 And so it is for that comment that you will probably have to pay with your life. But until that point,

00:52:30.980 I'll address your email. And you'll have time to get your affairs in order before you're executed.

00:52:36.960 Yeah, I think, well, I agree with much of what you're saying here. And, you know, the

00:52:42.520 example you give of the socialist-loving high school teacher,

00:52:49.000 well, there's another example, right? And this is a political conversation. So

00:52:54.180 there are many authorities, you know, on these issues that normally you would use.

00:53:04.620 But you wouldn't be able to use with this person because they don't accept those authorities.

00:53:10.660 And it's just not going to carry any weight with them. And so, yeah, it makes it more difficult.

00:53:16.060 But you see, that's the whole art of persuasion and of argumentation. You've got to figure out,

00:53:22.800 you've got to understand the other person, figure out where they're coming from, where they're

00:53:26.100 beginning. And yet, the more common ground you share with them, the easier it's going to be to

00:53:31.160 convince them. It's very difficult. If you have almost no common ground, it's going to be really

00:53:36.740 difficult to launch a campaign of persuasion from there. It can be done. It's just more difficult.

00:53:43.460 But you do have to go through this process. So, I mean, just, we were talking yesterday at dinner,

00:53:52.440 someone said, you know, what do you do when talking about abortion? What do you do with

00:53:58.620 someone who does admit that abortion is murder, but doesn't care? How do you convince them?

00:54:06.080 Well, yeah, that's a really difficult. Now, here's an example. Here's someone.

00:54:09.340 Now, most people you talk to, they will share the presupposition that murder is wrong. But they

00:54:15.260 will just try to claim that abortion doesn't fall into that category. So then all you have to do is

00:54:19.020 convince them that it does fall into that category. It's not easy to do, but it's easier than this,

00:54:23.480 where this person doesn't even think that murder is wrong. And so, how do you start there?

00:54:30.580 What common ground can you find with this person?

00:54:32.540 Well, the point is, you got to find something. Because if you can't find anything, well,

00:54:37.300 then there's nothing you can say to them. But it does become difficult. Yet, it doesn't,

00:54:47.180 you know, doesn't relieve you of the duty of having to do it. And the point is, yeah, with something

00:54:53.460 like abortion, well, look, I mean, the whole argument against abortion, basically, is that it's

00:54:58.620 murder. So that's the argument. So if they don't share that presupposition, then that is a case where

00:55:04.980 you probably can't move forward in the conversation until they share that presupposition. But the point

00:55:11.020 is, so now you have to argue for that. You have to make your case for that. You have to try to

00:55:15.620 explain to them that murder is wrong. You can't just continue in the discussion as, regardless of the

00:55:24.040 fact that they don't agree with you on that point. And you cannot just continue in the discussion and

00:55:28.840 keep appealing to this idea that murder is wrong with a person who doesn't share that point of view.

00:55:36.480 You can't go anywhere. You have to first convince them of that so that you can then appeal to it.

00:55:42.800 Convince them first that, oh, no, murder is definitely wrong. Here's why. And if they go, oh,

00:55:47.160 okay, yeah, I see what you're saying. Now you could go forward. The job isn't done yet. Now you have to go

00:55:52.220 and figure out, well, here's abortion. Here's how that fits into that category of wrong things,

00:55:55.780 which we call murder. All right. We'll leave it there. I guess I'll save the rest of the emails

00:56:04.440 for next time. And thank you all for listening. Godspeed.

00:56:07.120 Today on the Ben Shapiro Show, Facebook looks to the government for help censoring viewpoints,

00:56:23.980 and it gets ugly. That's today on the Ben Shapiro Show.

The Matt Walsh Show - April 05, 2019

Ep. 233 - Toilet Seat Oppression

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