The Matt Walsh Show - Ep. 304 - You Can Be Pro-Life And Pro-Death Penalty

00:00:00.000 Today on the show, federal executions are being reinstated. This fact, of course,

00:00:04.260 has caused much anger and consternation, especially on the left. And one claim we

00:00:08.220 keep hearing is that it's hypocritical for people to call themselves pro-life and yet be pro-death

00:00:12.860 penalty. Is that true? We'll talk about it today. Also, a drag queen story hour goes to an even 1.00

00:00:18.100 creepier direction than usual, and that's saying quite a lot. So we'll talk about that today also

00:00:23.600 on The Matt Wall Show. So this is always fun. It's always fun when the Democrats pretend to

00:00:32.140 care about the sanctity of human life. Most of the time, they don't bother, but every once in a while,

00:00:38.960 they'll go on with this whole charade of pretending to care. And that's what they're doing this week

00:00:43.320 as the Attorney General Barr has decided to move ahead with federal executions again. It's been

00:00:48.420 almost 20 years, I think, since the last prisoner in a federal prison has been executed.

00:00:55.440 There are about 60 or so people on death row in federal prison, but for the past, well, really for

00:01:01.960 the past 30 years, since 1988, I think they've executed maybe three prisoners in that time.

00:01:10.260 The reinstatement of the death penalty on the federal level has prompted the predictable reaction from

00:01:16.900 the expected people. The left is up in arms. Democrats, as I said, Democrat presidential

00:01:21.980 candidates especially, are pretending to be upset about the taking of human life. Kamala Harris,

00:01:27.220 who is such a huge fan of abortion that it would almost qualify as a fetish, came out and said,

00:01:34.060 this is what she said, this morning the Department of Justice announced they would resume capital

00:01:37.920 punishment. Let me be clear. And let me be clear. Let me stop there for a minute. The phrase let me be

00:01:44.980 clear is the most overused phrase by politicians. You got to take that out of your, the minute you

00:01:52.240 say let me be clear, I know you're about whatever's going to come next is BS. I know that. You're just

00:01:58.460 advertising it. Let me be clear. Capital punishment is immoral and deeply flawed. To many innocent

00:02:04.380 people, too many innocent people have been put to death. We need a national moratorium on the death

00:02:08.380 penalty, not a resurrection. Cory Booker said the death penalty is not justice. It is an immoral and

00:02:13.220 ineffective form of punishment that has killed innocent people and is biased against people

00:02:17.500 of color, low income, and those with mental illness. Warren says our criminal justice system

00:02:23.080 has blah, blah, blah. She's against it. Sanders, there's, there's enough violence in the world,

00:02:27.820 he says. The government shouldn't add to it. When I am president, we will abolish the death penalty

00:02:32.300 and so on. So you get the idea there. Now it should go without saying, but I will say it anyway,

00:02:39.480 that to oppose the death penalty, yet support abortion is just about the most morally deranged

00:02:47.620 position you can possibly hold. Bernie Sanders says there's enough of, there's enough violence

00:02:56.080 in the world, yet he supports crushing the skulls of children. Okay. So this makes no sense. 0.99

00:03:02.800 There are only two basic reasons to oppose the death penalty. One is this concern about executing

00:03:10.460 innocent people, but, and you hear, you know, you've heard, you heard that mentioned, but

00:03:15.120 that's not a reason to object in principle to the death penalty in every case. That's a reason to be

00:03:21.740 careful and to be certain about it. Um, but that's not a reason to oppose the death penalty across the

00:03:29.320 board because then, then you're, you're suggesting that there's no way to ever be certain that someone

00:03:36.180 committed a crime when of course there is. No, because if, if we can't ever be certain, uh, uh,

00:03:42.220 if we can't ever know for sure that somebody committed a crime, well, then I guess we shouldn't

00:03:46.080 be putting them in prison, right? Yeah. I mean, if you put them in prison and they spend 30 years in

00:03:50.820 prison, then you find out they're innocent and at least you didn't kill them, but that's 30 years of

00:03:56.080 their life that you took from them that they can't ever get back. So the way people talk about

00:04:01.680 the death penalty, they act as though it's like a, it's a flip of the coin. Ah, 50, 50, maybe they

00:04:06.060 did it. Maybe they didn't. Yes, there have been innocent people, uh, executed, which is a terrible

00:04:11.660 tragedy. But I think these days, you know, you've got DNA. Uh, if you, if you've got, if you have DNA,

00:04:19.940 um, if you have a body, if you have a confession, I mean, sometimes you can have all of those things,

00:04:25.200 then I would say we could be pretty well certain that, um, this person is guilty. Um, does anyone

00:04:33.040 think that, um, that, that, uh, uh, Jeff, Jeff Bundy might've been innocent? Timothy McVeigh

00:04:39.980 might be innocent. Charles Manson might be it. Does anyone think those people might be innocent?

00:04:45.720 Of course, Charles Manson is not being executed, but, uh, does anyone, do you hear anyone say these

00:04:50.560 people are innocent? No, we, we know that they did it. Most of the posthumous exonerations that

00:04:56.620 you hear about, which again are tragic, but most of the time that's from DNA evidence that at the

00:05:03.360 time we didn't have the technology to analyze and now we do, and we see the mistake was made, but

00:05:09.060 that's the point. Now we have that technology. So I think the real reason then to oppose the death

00:05:15.500 penalty in principle, okay, is, is let's, because let's just, for the sake of argument,

00:05:24.160 let's say we have someone, um, who's been convicted of a terrible crime and we know they did it,

00:05:32.840 you know, just for the sake of argument, let's say we've got a confession, we've got DNA, we've got a

00:05:37.600 body, we've got, we've got witnesses. I mean, all of those things, let's just say for the sake of

00:05:41.360 argument, um, would you still oppose executing that person? If so, then you have a problem with

00:05:47.980 the death penalty in principle. And the only reason to have that issue with the death penalty

00:05:53.220 in principle is if you, um, are stating that, well, we just have no right to kill somebody.

00:06:00.940 Life is sacred. Uh, there's a right to life and we have no right to take it.

00:06:05.460 Well, there just is no way to apply that principle to convicts, but not to babies. There's, there's no

00:06:16.920 way to do it. That is an argument that cannot be coherently made. You cannot coherently make the

00:06:23.520 argument that, yeah, uh, we can't kill, uh, convicted murderers, even if we know they did it

00:06:28.080 because life is sacred, right to life, can't kill people. Um, but then, uh, support abortion. It just,

00:06:33.500 you, you can't do it. You can, uh, but, uh, but you can't do it rationally and coherently.

00:06:42.820 If the life of a convicted child rapist is sacred, if even he has the right to life,

00:06:49.260 then I don't see how a child could ever be said to lose it under any circumstance, period.

00:06:54.960 No matter the, the manner of the, of their conception, no matter anything.

00:07:03.000 As I've shared before, I've gone back and forth on this issue, not on abortion, but on capital

00:07:06.940 punishment. And I have been, um, even somewhat recently, I've been against the death penalty.

00:07:11.440 And my reason was, was this, uh, I opposed it in principle based on, on this about the right to

00:07:16.240 life, the sanctity of life and all of that. Uh, but I've always been against abortion also.

00:07:22.180 So there was no conflict there. I have most, most recently changed my mind on the issue because

00:07:27.380 I've realized that the concept of a right to life is a bit more nuanced than I'd made it out to be

00:07:35.260 in the past. Now in the past, I would have said that a right to life is absolute. Everybody has it.

00:07:39.780 It can't be lost. Um, it, I've, I've realized that that's just, that's just not the case. In fact,

00:07:47.560 even when I have, even when I said that a right to life is absolute, I didn't really believe it.

00:07:53.740 Not that I was being dishonest, but I just, I hadn't thought it all the way through. I had,

00:07:57.580 I was, I was being inconsistent because the fact is that our rights can be lost. We all know that

00:08:04.840 if you go to prison, pretty much all of your rights are either gone forever. If you're in prison

00:08:12.160 for life or suspended, um, you, uh, you don't have free speech in prison. You don't have the right

00:08:18.200 to bear arms in prison. You don't have property rights in prison. Um, you don't have any protection

00:08:24.360 against search and seizure in prison. You don't have privacy rights in prison. You don't have the

00:08:29.060 right to assemble in prison. You don't have voting rights in prison on and on and on. And we all realize

00:08:35.140 that it has to be this way. We, we couldn't have prison without suspending those rights. Obviously you

00:08:40.700 can't have a prison where everybody still has all of where, where the bill of rights is still

00:08:45.000 totally intact. You just, you couldn't do it. So you can't have prison without suspending those

00:08:49.120 rights and you can't have, um, a, a safe and civilized society without prison. And so that

00:08:53.980 means that we have to be able to suspend those rights if somebody is convicted of a very serious

00:08:57.480 crime. So then if it, once we've established that the question is, well, we've just, we can suspend

00:09:03.320 or, or, or eliminate all of these other rights potentially, if someone commits a horrible crime

00:09:09.120 and they're convicted of it, um, can the right to life also be lost? And it seems to me that it can

00:09:14.920 be. And that is a conclusion that, that we all to some extent agree with. I mean, if somebody breaks

00:09:21.680 into your house, you have the right to shoot them. You have the right to defend yourself, which means

00:09:27.100 that an intruder in your house, while he is an intruder in your house has essentially forfeited his

00:09:33.860 right to life. If we're going to say that his right to life is absolute and it cannot be lost ever,

00:09:38.420 that means you can't shoot him. Even when he's in your house, you can't because he's got a right

00:09:42.180 to life. You can, you're taking away his right to, to life. If you think that it could be okay to

00:09:47.060 shoot an intruder in your house, then you believe that the right to life in effect can be lost or

00:09:52.960 suspended given, uh, certain circumstances. So if you believe that the right to life can be lost,

00:09:59.540 and if you believe that all of, uh, that all of the rights enshrined in the bill of rights can be

00:10:03.040 lost, then it just seems logical that yes. I mean, do the death penalty in principle could be

00:10:09.100 acceptable given those two facts. Um, it took me for some reason, a long time to put all that together

00:10:14.980 and realize that, Oh, okay. Um, that's it. So, and this is why, uh, there, there is a conflict,

00:10:27.000 a contradiction in supporting abortion, but not the death penalty, but there is no contradiction in

00:10:31.920 supporting the death penalty, but not abortion. You can obviously argue reasonably, it seems to me 0.98

00:10:39.660 that a child raping killer loses his right to life. You cannot argue reasonably that a child,

00:10:44.840 um, uh, you know, that, that a child raping killer retains his right to life, but the child

00:10:51.820 might lose his right to life. So that you can't do. I mean, I, so that's, that's the point. That's why

00:10:56.840 there is, when people say, Oh, well, you support the death penalty. I thought you're pro-life.

00:11:00.120 No, no, I, I'm explaining here how that works. It is perfectly possible. It is perfectly reasonable

00:11:07.160 to say that, well, of course a baby can't lose his right to life, but, uh, but if you kill somebody,

00:11:12.760 you might, you just, but you can't do the other way where the baby can lose his, but the convicted

00:11:18.820 killer can't. That doesn't make any sense in terms of sanctity of life. I mean, you could argue

00:11:25.040 that the most extreme penalty is necessary for those who so terribly violate the sanctity of life.

00:11:30.680 You could, you could argue that the sanctity of life in fact demands that we have the death penalty

00:11:35.460 because if somebody else violates the sacredness of another person's life, then, um, in order to

00:11:42.180 reinforce and protect that sanctity, we, uh, we must have the death penalty. So that's where I stand.

00:11:50.320 That's the way I see it. That's the way I see it now anyway. And, um, and I think when it comes down

00:11:58.480 to it, some crime, you know, just to, I guess if you were to summarize this in, um, in one sentence,

00:12:06.500 some crimes simply warrant simply necessitate, uh, the death penalty. I think maybe it's as simple

00:12:18.080 as that. Some crimes just cry out for it. And I'll show you what I mean. There are five people

00:12:25.600 now in line for executions in federal prison. These are the people that the Democrats are crying tears

00:12:32.180 of sadness for, um, asking us to feel sympathy for, well, the DOJ released info about the crimes

00:12:39.780 that these people committed. And, um, so I'm going to read the information that DOJ released

00:12:45.800 about these people and the crimes they committed. Of course, I warn you, it's very disturbing and

00:12:49.580 graphic. If there are little kids listening, maybe turn it off for now. Um, but I do think it's

00:12:55.940 important that we remember what these people did to deserve this. You just, you just, you can't talk

00:13:01.540 about the death penalty without talking about the kinds of things people do to, to warrant it. You

00:13:08.040 can't, you can't leave that aside. Like it's irrelevant. Um, so I think it's important for us

00:13:13.500 to, if we're, if we're saying that five people are in line now for the death penalty, well, I think

00:13:17.540 we should, it's, we should ask, what did they do? And you have to ask that, I think, before you decide

00:13:24.300 whether or not you, uh, support the death penalty in their case. So, um, here they are. Daniel Lewis Lee,

00:13:31.020 a member of a white supremacist group murdered, murdered a family of three, including an eight

00:13:35.240 year old girl. After robbing and shooting the victims with a stun gun, Lee covered their heads 0.64

00:13:39.840 with plastic bags, sealed the bags with duct tape, weighed down each victim with rocks and

00:13:44.940 threw the family of three into the Illinois Bayou. Um, Lesmond Mitchell stabbed to death a 63 year

00:13:54.480 old grandmother and forced her nine year old granddaughter to sit beside her lifeless body for a 30 to 40 mile 1.00

00:13:59.660 drive. Mitchell then slit the girl's throat twice, crushed her head with 20 pound rocks and severed

00:14:05.920 and buried both victims heads and hands. Wesley Ira Perkey violently raped and murdered a 16 year old 0.97

00:14:13.660 girl that dismembered, burned and dumped the young girl's body in a septic pond. He was also convicted,

00:14:18.600 um, of bludgeoning to death an 80 year old woman who suffered from polio and walked with a cane.

00:14:24.560 Alfred, uh, bourgeois physically and emotionally tortured, sexually molested, and then beat to 0.86

00:14:32.760 death his own two, two and a half year old daughter. And then Dustin Lee Hunkin shot and killed five 0.92

00:14:39.820 people, two men who plan to testify against him and a single working mother and a 10 year old and

00:14:44.660 six year old daughters. All right. Um, so that is, um, you know, it's not an emotional argument to say

00:15:00.540 that you, you listen to those crimes and to say, well, these people just don't deserve to live anymore.

00:15:05.020 That's not an emotional argument. Uh, I think that's just reasonable.

00:15:13.360 You know, these people are monsters. These are, these are monstrosities. These are abominations 0.98

00:15:20.440 and, um, they do not deserve to live. Uh, least of all, do they deserve to be cared for by the state

00:15:30.280 for the rest of their lives? That's the other part of this, because the only, if we're not going to

00:15:34.340 execute them, the only other option clearly is to, uh, is to keep them in prison for the rest of

00:15:40.520 their life, not only keep them in prison, but given the horrific nature of their crimes. I mean, 0.99

00:15:47.480 you take this guy, Alfred bourgeois who, uh, raped and beat to death his own two and a half year old 0.99

00:15:54.700 daughter. Okay. That's someone who, if you just throw them into the general population in prison, 0.99

00:16:00.480 uh, he, he's, he's going to be, he himself is going to be raped and tortured and beaten to death 0.99

00:16:07.080 for sure. Now, personally, I would say maybe that's, uh, that's, uh, that's just Darwinism at 0.95

00:16:15.960 work there. That's, uh, that's, that's, that's, you know, that's the natural consequences of your

00:16:20.580 actions. My point is, I don't think I, I don't know if I necessarily support giving protective

00:16:25.700 custody to people who are only given protective custody because their crimes were so horrific

00:16:30.460 that even the other prisoners don't want to be around them. I think, you know, that's the

00:16:34.820 consequence. Okay. If you don't want to be stuck in prison with a bunch of people that want to beat

00:16:39.200 you to death, then don't beat children to death. It was pretty simple. I mean, it's just simple.

00:16:43.060 If you do that, then you know what, that's your problem. Um, that's my attitude, but that's not the

00:16:48.580 attitude that the state has. And, and, you know, maybe for good. Also, the other problem is it would be,

00:16:52.560 it would be, it would be dangerous for the prison guards when you create this chaotic environment,

00:16:57.040 it becomes a feeding frenzy. And so it becomes dangerous for other people, including the prison

00:17:00.880 guards. So, which means that, um, uh, as much as this Alfred thing, uh, might deserve himself to

00:17:10.920 get the same treatment that he gave his daughter, uh, you know, that, that just can't happen. So if

00:17:15.440 we're not going to execute him, that means that we're keeping him in protective custody for the rest of

00:17:19.580 his life, uh, which special treatment, more expensive, we're spending more money to feed and 0.98

00:17:27.160 house and care for this man because he raped and tortured his own daughter. That to me is unjust. 0.97

00:17:34.860 That's just, it's, it's unjust. It's not right. I mean, the, the, the, the, for some of the,

00:17:44.180 you take, um, Dustin Lee Hawkins shot and killed five people, including a mother and 10 year old

00:17:50.300 daughter, uh, her 10 and six year old daughters, the family members of those victims are among the

00:17:57.760 people who have to pay money to keep this person alive and protective custody. It might not be that

00:18:03.740 much money. I mean, their, their share of the, of the bill isn't going to be much, but the fact that

00:18:07.960 they have to put out a dime in tax money to keep this guy alive and protected in jail, I think is

00:18:14.240 unjust. So that's just another reason you do something like that. I think maybe this is the

00:18:21.060 way we look at it. Um, we should have prison. Okay. We just, we have prison, treat everybody the same.

00:18:29.760 You know, everyone goes if, but if your crime is so horrific that we can't even put you in a regular 0.93

00:18:39.580 prison, that you need special treatment in prison, well, then that's someone who should be executed.

00:18:46.120 Maybe that's the way we look at this. That to me seems reasonable. And you know, it's, it's, 0.93

00:18:52.280 it's pretty simple. If you don't want to be executed, then don't go and rape and kill children or 0.99

00:18:57.940 murder, uh, women, or you just don't do that. It's the easiest thing in the world. It is the easiest 0.99

00:19:03.760 thing in the world to avoid being executed by the state in this country. Anyway, just don't do those

00:19:08.980 things and it won't happen. But if your crime is so terrible that we can't even put you in a regular

00:19:16.780 prison, if that's what a monstrosity, that's what an animal you are, then, um, then that is a crime

00:19:27.020 that cries out for the ultimate punishment in my view, which, as I said, again, I admit is, uh, has,

00:19:38.120 has changed, but this is where I stand now. And, um, I think it's the most reasonable point of view.

00:19:44.240 And I fully admit, and I admitted in the past when I was against the death penalty that my reasoning,

00:19:49.280 well, it had a lot to do with, um, with the sanctity of life and all those things, but it was

00:19:55.160 also an emotional thing as well, where I just, I had a gut reaction to the, to the idea of going in 0.88

00:20:02.120 and, um, taking someone who's in prison and just bringing them into a room and killing them. It 0.99

00:20:08.940 just, it makes me sick to my stomach to think about. It still does. It's not something I would

00:20:11.760 want to see, but the more I think about it, I think it's just, it's unavoidable. You have to have it.

00:20:17.940 All right. Um, let's see what else? Well, we've talked about these drag queen story hour

00:20:27.880 abominations on the show before there was recently one of these things at a library in Oregon,

00:20:32.680 um, where men dressed as women, you know, that's the drag queen story hours, men dressed as women 0.57

00:20:42.260 come and read stories to children. Okay. And they recently have one of these in Oregon and you know,

00:20:47.340 if it's an Oregon, it's going to be, I mean, these drag queen story hours are happening across the

00:20:51.320 country, not just in crazy places like Oregon, but the ones that have an Oregon, you know,

00:20:55.200 are going to be way worse than, than, than, uh, they're going to be even worse than the ones you

00:20:59.520 find in other places. And that's the case here. Um, life site news took some screenshots of what

00:21:06.200 happened at this story hour, which the library had originally proudly published on the internet for

00:21:11.700 all to see, but then took them down. And so here, I'll play the, I'll, I'll show you these

00:21:16.280 pictures. Um, so here are the pictures you see, uh, those are children laying on top of a cross

00:21:25.020 dressing man, uh, while their parents stand by and just watch now. And that always is, is the headline

00:21:36.640 with stuff like this. The headline is these parents, they're the first ones responsible.

00:21:43.560 They're the first culprits that they would bring their children into this environment. Can you even

00:21:47.900 imagine that? I mean, what's going on in your head as a parent where you say to yourself,

00:21:55.420 you get up in the morning and say to yourself, I'm going to get my kids into the car and I'm going to

00:22:01.560 bring them to a place so that men in dresses can read them stories. I understand what the idea of

00:22:10.180 going to a story time or reading a story yourself to your kids. I mean, that makes sense. That part

00:22:15.380 of it makes sense, but of all the different ways to involve your children in a story time activity,

00:22:24.780 why go to the one where it's men in dresses? I, I, why, even if you're so progressive that you don't

00:22:32.060 see a problem with it. Why, why though? Can you give me a reason? I re I've asked this question

00:22:38.640 before. I've never to some parent who's brought their kid to a drag. Why, why did you need a man 1.00

00:22:43.620 in a dress to read the story? And not even just a manager dress, but a man dressed up to look like

00:22:49.320 some weird Tim Burton esque caricature of a woman. Okay. If you want someone dressed like a woman to 1.00

00:22:56.900 read a story, you can go to any other kind of story time at a library and the librarian,

00:23:01.460 usually a woman will read a story. Why do you need it with all the face paint and everything 1.00

00:23:07.780 and the grotesque, weird, creepy, like what do you, what's, what's the point of that?

00:23:14.160 But then to have this man lay on the floor and you say to your kids, oh yeah, why don't you go drop,

00:23:22.620 jump on top of that man there, land there with the, with the skirt on. Yeah. Go, go, go, go climb 0.98

00:23:26.960 on top of him like a jungle gym. I what's again, what is going on inside your head as a parent? Do I

00:23:31.800 even want to know? So that's a, that's just abuse on, on their part and on the part of this cross 0.85

00:23:39.140 dresser. Um, and there's a reason why the library took, well, this is what's so disturbing is that the

00:23:48.620 library has taken the pictures down now because they were getting backlash about it. But originally

00:23:53.060 they took these pictures and put them online. Like they didn't see a problem. They didn't even

00:23:56.480 think it'd be a controversy. What kind of delusional fantasy world do you have to be living in

00:24:04.440 where not only do you think it's okay to have men in dresses and weird face paint, reading kid

00:24:11.660 stories to kids, and then having the kids lie on top of that man, not only do you think it's okay,

00:24:16.380 but you don't even think it'll, anyone will have a problem with it.

00:24:22.600 All right. Finally, I've been meaning to talk about this. Uh, a few days ago, I tweeted something

00:24:26.740 that got a bit of a reaction. Um, here's what I said. Uh, I said, I'm, I'm told that gender is a

00:24:31.780 social construct, but my six-year-old daughter loves to help clean cook and take care of her 1.00

00:24:35.780 baby brother. Meanwhile, my six-year-old son loves to run, climb, wrestle, and make fart jokes.

00:24:39.920 It's almost like this stuff is innate or something. Then I went on in a couple of the tweets and said,

00:24:44.740 part of the problem is most millennial progressives who push gender theory don't have kids and have 0.93

00:24:48.420 little experience with kids. Their theories are just that theories. I have three kids with a fourth

00:24:52.800 on a way on the way. Our first two or baby were boy, girl twins. I watched in real time as they

00:24:58.340 naturally gravitated to interests and hobbies that are stereotypical for their gender. We didn't force

00:25:02.580 it. They just did what they wanted to do. Um, so this is just now, in fact, I, I, the reason why I

00:25:10.160 tweeted that is, is, um, I just was thinking about it because I remember I, it was a few nights ago

00:25:16.860 and, um, it was exactly that happening where my, my daughter really wanted to go. I was about to put

00:25:26.320 my, my, my son, my youngest son to bed, uh, two and a half years old. She really wanted to go and

00:25:30.660 read him a story, get his pajamas for him. And, you know, she wanted to do the whole bedtime thing.

00:25:35.040 She really wanted to do that. And so I said, of course I came in after she was done and, you know,

00:25:39.700 but, um, but so she, she was in the room doing that, reading the story to the baby, you know,

00:25:45.260 playing, playing mommy, which, which she loves to do. Meanwhile, my oldest son is, uh, literally

00:25:51.360 trying to scale the walls in our living room. And he actually did it. I don't even know how he,

00:25:55.420 how he, it's like almost like Spider-Man. I don't even know how he did it, but he was able to

00:25:58.680 on, on the corner of the wall, kind of scale it to the, uh, to the, to the ceiling

00:26:03.740 and then kind of like grab onto something in the ceiling and just sort of hang there.

00:26:07.380 That's what he was doing. Um, and I was noticing this kind of dichotomy and it's just,

00:26:13.740 it's so stereotypical where you've got the boy literally climbing the walls while the,

00:26:19.380 the girl is, you know, reading a story to the baby. Um, it's, it's, I didn't, I didn't force

00:26:25.080 them to do it. It's not like I said to my daughter, Hey, put the kid to bed and Hey,

00:26:27.880 you climb the walls. I didn't say that they're just doing what they wanted to do. Um, which

00:26:33.680 is interesting to see. And so I, I made that observation. Now, of course there was outrage,

00:26:38.320 yada, yada. A lot of people insisting that their own experience with their kids has been different,

00:26:42.320 which, which fine. Okay. I'm not saying that my experience is remarkable. That's it's not,

00:26:47.720 that's exactly my point is that it's not remarkable. Um, and I'm not, and I'm not saying that this sample

00:26:53.520 size with my kids somehow proves something. My point is simply that with my kids, this little

00:27:00.200 small sample size, it fits in so perfectly with the larger sample size, which is the general

00:27:06.480 experience of human civilization since, since, uh, you know, the dawn of, uh, of man that it's boys

00:27:13.420 tend to act a certain way. Girls tend to act another way. And I have observed that myself, 1.00

00:27:20.480 which is just interesting. I think when you see these things that you're told

00:27:27.640 that are, are the product of, of, uh, of conditioning and are just these arbitrary

00:27:34.140 constructs. But when you have kids and you're not forcing any construct on them, you're not forcing

00:27:39.940 them to act one way or another, but you just see them naturally gravitate to that. That is

00:27:44.240 interesting. I mean, and again, parents, many parents, not all, there are exceptions, but many

00:27:54.220 parents have observed this where, I mean, you've got kids that are two years old that are already,

00:27:59.380 there is something it's, it's not a coincidence that the vast majority of little kids who play

00:28:06.260 with baby dolls are girls. It's not like, it's, it didn't just happen that way. And it's not because

00:28:14.000 parents are forcing it. It happens at such a young age that we couldn't force it on them. Even if we

00:28:20.240 wanted to, there's just something at a, even before the age of two, just something at a very,

00:28:25.660 at a very early age, very early where you find many, most little girls that it just, something 0.61

00:28:31.700 clicks and they, they liked the baby dolls. They liked the bright colors. They like that sort of

00:28:36.720 thing. Um, with boys, it's, you know, at a very young age, I liked the trucks. They liked the

00:28:43.240 superheroes. Uh, they getting in, they get into the fart jokes and the bathroom humor. Yeah. There

00:28:48.460 are girls that do that too, but with boys, it just, it's almost inevitable at a, at a certain age.

00:28:53.240 Again, it's like a switch is flipped and that's how they act. Um, my own kids have large,

00:29:01.700 fallen into those same tendencies, but not completely. I mean, my kids are not embodiments

00:29:06.520 of stereotypes as if that's all they are. They are also unique and individual people, but

00:29:10.980 generally speaking, they, they fit into these, uh, so-called constructs. Now there are two things

00:29:19.040 that I noticed from the reaction to this, uh, to these tweets and from the conversation.

00:29:22.780 Um, one is, as I mentioned, people thinking that exceptions disprove the rule.

00:29:33.060 And this is one of the reasons why conversations in our society are so frustrating where people just,

00:29:39.680 they don't understand the concept of speaking in generalities, which we have to be able to do

00:29:47.180 that in order to have a discussion about things that are happening in society. We need to be able

00:29:52.460 to speak in generalities. Now, when you speak in generality, you're not saying that this is

00:29:56.920 universally true across the board for everybody, but for some reason, people don't get that. So

00:30:02.580 I'll say, you know, uh, it's interesting. Boys tend to like trucks and superheroes and girls like

00:30:07.060 baby dolls. You know, I'll make that statement, general statement. And then all of all these people

00:30:10.760 say, what do you tell? So you're saying that every single girl in history has wanted to play

00:30:15.060 with baby dolls. Well, I've got news for you. My daughter doesn't like baby dolls. What do you say

00:30:19.720 about that? I don't say anything about that. I didn't say that every, yes, that's great for your

00:30:26.680 daughter. Fantastic. She's kind of the exception. Most girls do. That's my point. And so we ask, 0.99

00:30:34.620 why do most girls gravitate? Is it really just a society's forcing it on them? Is it some sort of 1.00

00:30:41.460 conspiracy or is it possible that there is something innate within girls? And is it possible 0.99

00:30:48.500 that we could call that innate thing femininity, which, which, which, which can, which you can find

00:30:54.320 in boys and girls, you know, which you can find in girls and masculinity and boys, you can find it

00:30:58.880 even at the youngest ages. That's the point. Also this, again, it's a general statement where I say,

00:31:07.380 well, millennial kid, millennials are not having kids or having kids a lot later. And so they don't

00:31:11.380 have experience with kids. And for them, they talk about kids in this sort of theoretical way.

00:31:16.200 Now, once again, I had people, well, what are you talking about? I'm a millennial and I have kids.

00:31:19.940 Your whole point is invalid. I obviously didn't mean that no millennial has had kids. I'm a millennial,

00:31:26.720 sad to say, and I have kids. So clearly there are exceptions, but it's a statistical reality that out,

00:31:32.660 that my generation is waiting much longer to have kids. And there are, there's a, there's a,

00:31:40.020 a large percentage of my generation that has had so far had no kids and, and, and a percentage that

00:31:46.120 say they plan on, they don't ever plan on having kids. Okay. So that's, that's just the fact. And I

00:31:56.380 do think that that factors in, I think that there's a connection here where we've got these

00:32:02.840 gender theories, these ideas about how little kids can choose their own gender, how the gender is a

00:32:10.060 social construct, all this stuff. All of this stuff has been coming popular, especially within a

00:32:16.340 generation where a lot of the people in that generation aren't having kids themselves. I think

00:32:21.640 that there's a connection there because in many cases, when you actually have kids, you start to

00:32:32.020 learn something about kids. It's funny how that works. When you've got kids in your house all the

00:32:36.700 time, it's not just that you, you know, a baby, you, you, you, you, you've, you've, you've done some

00:32:42.100 babysitting or something like that. You have, you have your own kids who, you know, intimately.

00:32:47.820 Right. Once that happens, you start to learn a few things. You start to see some things.

00:32:57.560 One of the things that you learn when you have your own kids, one of the things you learn is,

00:33:01.880 is, oh geez, little kids are incapable of making choices for themselves. Now, again, there could be

00:33:10.800 exceptions. Maybe you have, maybe you, you, you've had a, maybe your three-year-old is, is very

00:33:17.220 unusually decisive and very good at making choices. Most are not. I mean, most three-year-olds or four-year-olds,

00:33:25.040 you take them even to get some ice cream and you give them three options, vanilla, strawberry,

00:33:30.580 chocolate. They're flummoxed. They don't, they don't know. They have no idea. So you have to kind of

00:33:36.100 make the choice for them. Or you have to tell them, based on what you know about them, you'll,

00:33:40.680 you have to tell them, oh, well, you like chocolate. So I'm going to get you chocolate.

00:33:44.940 But even a choice like that, most kids at three and four years old, they can't make that choice.

00:33:50.060 They just, they're not capable of it. The idea that they could choose their own gender when they 0.99

00:33:56.500 can't even choose their own ice cream flavor is, uh, is completely absurd. But I think,

00:34:02.720 now this should be obvious to people who don't have kids, but if for some reason it's not,

00:34:08.940 if for some reason you're confused about it, if you actually have kids, the reality all of a sudden

00:34:12.880 presents itself to you. And yet a lot of these people that propose these theories, uh, have never

00:34:19.920 had kids. And so that's where these, uh, delusional ideas come from, I think. All right, we'll move on to

00:34:27.120 emails, mattwalshowatgmail.com, mattwalshowatgmail.com. This is from Greg says, Matt, I've enjoyed your

00:34:32.440 recent discussion on St. Anselm's, uh, Anselm's ontological argument to prove God's existence.

00:34:37.580 Like you, I feel this argument comes up short and it feels like question begging or something.

00:34:42.240 However, if you happen to read this email in time, Ed Feaser is going to be debating an atheist 0.52

00:34:46.520 on the, uh, Aristotelian, there we go, proof of God's existence. Tonight, the debate will take

00:34:53.900 place on YouTube on the Capturing Christianity channel at 6 p.m. Um, uh, this is much more

00:35:00.600 solid philosophically and Aristotle reasoned his way to an unmoved mover hundreds of years before

00:35:05.800 Christ. Yeah, I didn't, Greg, I didn't catch the debate, but I'll go back and watch it. I like

00:35:09.840 Feaser a lot. I've, I've been asked, I've been asked before about which modern, um, apologists and

00:35:15.940 theologians I like. And I always forget to mention Feaser, but he's, he's a very good one.

00:35:19.740 Um, this is from Virginia says, hello, Matt. I love your show at your elbow. Please tell us

00:35:25.300 about bust hell wide open. And who was Nathan Forrest? I think the book at the bottom of the

00:35:29.940 pile is titled soldier and Eastern reader. I haven't been able to even guess the title of

00:35:33.660 the book on the top of the pile. That said, I do pay attention to everything you say and

00:35:36.620 agree with most of it. I'm an atheist. Um, Virginia, thanks for asking. Actually. Yes, this, um,

00:35:44.360 so these are my books that I have, that I've got here that I'm reading. This is bust hell wide

00:35:47.680 open. Nathan Bedford Forrest, you were right. You did, you did, uh, correctly identify that

00:35:52.460 Nathan Bedford Forrest was a Confederate Confederate general on the Western front of the Civil War.

00:36:00.140 Um, fascinating figure, uh, complicated figure though, slave trader, founding member of the

00:36:06.360 clan after the Civil War was over. He did later denounce the clan, but, um, he was definitely a,

00:36:12.360 a violent, um, complex sort of figure yet. He was a man of raw military talent and genius,

00:36:20.280 remarkable physical courage as, as were many men on both sides of the Civil War. So I find that

00:36:25.060 interesting. Um, and then the soldier and Eastern reader is a collection of, uh, of his essays and

00:36:29.500 passages from his novels, which I think is a necessity. If you, you know, if you, if you've never read,

00:36:34.900 if to, to dive into something like the Gulag Archipelago, um, to go in cold, so to speak,

00:36:41.500 not having read any soldier and Eastern, I think might be daunting. So to read, uh, something like

00:36:46.080 that first to get you warmed up, I think it's a good idea. And then this here is, uh, uh, is a book

00:36:50.860 by my friend, Matt Fred called does God exist. And it's a great, easy to read distillation of

00:36:58.660 Aquinas is five proofs of God. So I'd recommend that book as well. All right. Um, that was my random

00:37:05.680 pitch for, uh, books I didn't write. This is from Nick says, Hey Matt, the name's Nick. I'm a big fan,

00:37:11.340 long time daily wire follower and recent listener to your show. You're the funniest contributor on

00:37:15.500 daily wire, but I digress. I'm a Christian at heart and I have an interest in theology. I'm

00:37:20.440 harboring a lot of hate towards an ex of mine. It's been a year since she randomly decided to

00:37:24.180 leave me after four years together. I was genuinely in love and had plans to marry her.

00:37:28.780 Once she left me, she turned into the antithesis of herself, sleeping with lots of guys, getting a 1.00

00:37:33.420 butt cheek tattoo, um, drinking all the time, having no regard for consequences. I have no idea how to

00:37:40.280 forgive her and just move on. Uh, I'm much better than I was yet. I still randomly get nostalgic

00:37:45.160 moments that immediately see about it. And I know hating is sinful as well as being vengeful.

00:37:50.000 I've been to therapy, uh, took up meditation, started seeing other people. How could I truly

00:37:54.700 forgive her and stop polluting my mind? Well, Nick, first of all, sorry to hear what you're going

00:37:59.220 through. Also, sorry in advance that what I'm going to say is cliched. I get these sorts of emails a lot

00:38:04.960 and I don't usually respond to them only because I know that I'm going to simply say the same stuff.

00:38:11.900 You've probably already heard a million times. Now, as far as you hating this girl, I'm, I'm,

00:38:17.640 maybe it's presumptuous for me to say, I'm betting you don't actually hate her.

00:38:23.580 Maybe you do. I can't see inside your heart, but I'm, I'm, I'm, I think there's a good chance you

00:38:27.960 don't. So you could put your mind at rest a little bit. There's a good chance that you feel

00:38:33.100 very angry and very hurt and very betrayed and rightly so. Um, not just by the fact that she

00:38:38.260 left, which obviously she had the right to do, uh, especially you guys weren't married yet. So 1.00

00:38:42.380 relationships end. And, and, and, and so she, of course she had the right to leave you, but you're 0.94

00:38:47.000 still going to feel betrayed. Um, probably, but more even than that is the fact that she changed so

00:38:52.540 much. And so that makes you start to feel like, well, was it all a lie? And this time I had with her,

00:38:57.660 this person that I knew, was she faking it the whole time? Um, and so you're angry about that and

00:39:02.580 you're angry at her and that's fine. That's natural. Let me ask you though, if you could

00:39:08.240 press some kind of magical button and with no consequences to yourself, this button would

00:39:14.200 cause your ex to suffer. I mean, really suffer. Would you press it? What I mean is, do you wish

00:39:24.560 suffering on her? Uh, maybe you do. And if you do, then yeah, you hate her. And that is, and that's

00:39:31.860 something you need to, as you know, get control of. But I think many times we talk about hating

00:39:40.220 people or we think we hate someone and we don't really, because we don't, we don't wish that on

00:39:44.480 them. We don't want them to suffer. Now you might wish that she would learn her lesson about the way

00:39:48.300 she's living now and, and, and stop and live a better way. But, um, do you want harm to befall

00:39:54.140 her, whether physical or emotional? If the answer is no, then, uh, then I don't really think that's

00:39:58.500 hate. I think that's, that's just anger. And I think it's important that we distinguish. It's

00:40:03.240 possible to be really pissed at somebody really, really angry and yet not hate them. And I think

00:40:08.160 that's the difference. If you're super angry, if you're really, really angry, but you still want

00:40:13.240 what, want what's best for them, then it's not hate. Um, in fact, it seems to me that part of

00:40:20.840 the reason why you're angry is that you want what's best for her and you see her living this way

00:40:26.380 and you know, it's a miserable way to live. You know, it's self-destructive and that's what makes

00:40:30.500 you angry. So again, that's not hate. That's kind of the opposite of hate. That's actually love. You

00:40:34.960 still love this girl. And, uh, and that's where the pain comes from. And that's the other thing is,

00:40:40.560 um, especially in a breakup situation, uh, if you really hated her, then I don't think you

00:40:49.940 wouldn't be missing her. You wouldn't be nostalgic. You wouldn't be having these moments where it brings

00:40:53.420 you back and you just want her back and all that. If you're having those moments, that means you don't

00:40:57.420 hate her. If you really hated her, that would be, you would have utter disregard for her. You

00:41:01.260 wouldn't care. Um, that's what hate is. And so I don't think that's hate. That's just me not saying

00:41:08.460 that, you know, I mean, you don't want to stew in anger either, but anger is natural and you

00:41:12.880 shouldn't feel guilty about it. As far as getting over the person, look, I mean, here's where the

00:41:16.360 cliches come in, but, uh, it just, it, time is all is all there is. It just takes time.

00:41:23.420 That's the only thing that I think works in situations like this. You go to therapy that that's

00:41:28.720 good. Um, it's not going to hurt obviously, but I think time is as the cliche goes, heals all wounds.

00:41:38.220 And I don't think time heals all wounds, but it does heal wounds like this, uh, in, in almost

00:41:43.880 every case, but it's a slow process. Eventually you will get to the point where, you know, driving

00:41:51.400 by that place where you guys used to hang out, uh, or where you had your first date or whatever,

00:41:55.400 or, or catching a, you know, hearing a song that you both liked or catching a whiff of, of something

00:42:01.340 that for some reason reminds you of her, that you'll reach a point where those things don't bother

00:42:06.740 you anymore. Um, where eventually she's really just your past something that's over now, something

00:42:13.060 that holds no power over you. It's just, it's something that you can think back to and think,

00:42:16.340 oh, that was an interesting time in my life. And eventually you get to the point, especially

00:42:20.080 when you do get married, where that you'll remember back to that, it'll feel like someone

00:42:24.380 else's life. Like it wasn't even you. Um, eventually you'll get there, but it just, it takes time.

00:42:29.720 And I think four years, four years is a long time to be with somebody. Um, and so that's going to be

00:42:36.820 a long process of getting, getting past it. All right. Uh, let's see from Sarah says, hi, Matt.

00:42:41.820 I love your show. I just heard your criticism of the predestination doctrine and I was cheering

00:42:46.160 internally all the way through in college. I dated a guy who was a Calvinist and it felt as though we

00:42:50.400 were worshiping two completely different gods, though. We both called ourselves Christians.

00:42:53.860 This turned out to be the main cause of our eventual breakup. We debated the issue constantly.

00:42:58.900 And I would use the same arguments you presented his response to the, what is the point of the

00:43:03.900 Bible? If you don't believe in free will question was it isn't meant to change anyone's mind. 0.54

00:43:07.680 The Bible exists purely to show God's glory and wisdom and to instruct those already predestined 0.98

00:43:12.020 for heaven in basic day-to-day life. Basically, he said, it just tells us the salvation story so that

00:43:17.340 those who are predestined for heaven can all applaud God's perfection. And it increases our

00:43:21.500 gratitude for his having chosen us. When I would ask, then what is the point of missionary work?

00:43:26.620 If we don't need to change anyone's mind, he would ask, he would answer, well, God wants to include

00:43:30.340 us in the process of helping people realize their predestined eternal salvation. They felt like such

00:43:35.160 lazy arguments, but always had just enough truth to them to make it difficult for me to contradict.

00:43:40.300 It didn't help that I am not the greatest at articulating my thoughts, especially when emotions

00:43:43.640 get involved. What would you have said? Well, Sarah, I think you articulated it well.

00:43:49.000 Um, those are lazy arguments, as you said, those are not conclusions drawn through the use of reason

00:43:57.360 and, and, and, and scripture study. Those are rationalizations meant to justify a conclusion

00:44:02.320 that he already drew or probably more likely a conclusion that was given to him by his Calvinist

00:44:09.120 parents or his Calvinist preacher. Um, and so we already had that in mind and now he's just looking

00:44:14.720 to kind of navigate these questions and get around them, not actually address them or think about

00:44:19.800 them. And so it is a lazy, I think he has reduced missionary work to, uh, a sort of symbolic effort

00:44:27.540 where you aren't, you aren't actually helping to convince any, anybody of anything. You aren't

00:44:32.060 actually helping to save their souls. Um, you, you aren't really, you're just, it's just sort of

00:44:38.440 symbolically going through the motions. God is letting you feel like you're doing something,

00:44:43.120 patting you on the head. They're there. Very nice. Oh yeah. You're doing a lot. Good stuff.

00:44:47.680 Big guy. Um, very patronizing, but you're not actually doing anything. That's, that's what

00:44:53.960 he's saying. It's an utterly dismal view of life. Uh, what he says about, well, what's the point of

00:45:00.720 studying scripture? He says, um, well, it's just, it's just to show God's glory and to, and to instruct

00:45:06.600 us in, in basic day-to-day life. Well, again, what do we need instructions for? It's all predestined.

00:45:11.120 It's all, we're on a track. We can't get off of it. What do you need instructions?

00:45:14.940 And also the other thing is the Bible actually, it's not a day-to-day life manual, uh, for, for,

00:45:21.200 you know, every step of the way, given you specific instructions on how to navigate everything you

00:45:27.060 might encounter in life. Um, that's not what the Bible contains for the most part. Um, but the Bible

00:45:34.340 does have a lot, a lot, a lot, a lot of moral instruction and command and exhortation and

00:45:42.780 warning and, you know, do this, don't do this. If you do this, this is going to happen. If you do

00:45:47.200 this, this other thing, this one, there's a lot of that in the Bible. And if it's all predestined,

00:45:51.940 if we don't have a choice, then all of that is pointless. At the end of the day, it doesn't matter

00:45:55.660 that you can't get around it. Your boyfriend couldn't get around as, as I'm sure you apparently

00:46:01.200 noticed. You can't get around it without reducing it to something totally patronizing and symbolic

00:46:07.220 and pointless. Um, and then, uh, well, you got to help people realize their pre, their

00:46:13.020 predestination. Well, okay. First of all, how do you realize what you're predestined? So, so if you

00:46:19.840 think you're predestined for heaven, that means you automatically are. No, I'm sure he would tell

00:46:24.280 you that there are people who think they're predestined who aren't. And so first of all, how do you

00:46:28.780 realize it? And what good does it do when you do realize it? If you realize, if somehow you realize

00:46:35.840 that you're predestined for heaven, which again, someone has to explain to me, how do you realize

00:46:39.860 that? I mean, who, who told you? And is it possible for someone to think they're predestined and not be?

00:46:46.940 And if it is possible, then couldn't you be one of those people who's mistaken? Oh no, it couldn't be

00:46:52.520 you. You couldn't be, these other people can be mistaken. Not me. I know that doesn't make any

00:46:57.640 sense. But anyway, even if it is possible for someone to realize, well, then what? Uh, so if

00:47:03.820 you're predestined for heaven, then okay, you're going to heaven. I mean, you can't lose it. Nothing,

00:47:08.660 you cannot lose it, period. Nothing you do will take it away. So just, I mean, who cares? Live your

00:47:14.140 life. Have fun. You're going to heaven anyway. What if you realize you're predestined for hell?

00:47:19.240 What if, what if someone realized that? Predestined for an eternity of torture?

00:47:28.060 And then you're going to tell this person to, to still bask in the glory of God? Why? To give

00:47:33.340 thanks to God for what? To give thanks to God for making me so that I will be tortured forever?

00:47:40.080 I'm going to give, I'm going to, what am I giving thanks? What exactly am I giving thanks for? I can't

00:47:46.300 even give thanks for my very existence because my, I would, my, to be, to not exist would have been so

00:47:51.180 much better. So it just doesn't make any sense. I mean, you're, it's, it's a, you're turning

00:47:56.640 everything into a mockery. At best, you're turning faith and, and, and religion and the Bible into

00:48:04.100 a pointless, symbolic patronizing, um, uh, uh, husk of what it actually is. At worst, you're

00:48:15.000 turning into a, into a, into a total mockery, you know, uh, or something in between. So I, I think

00:48:22.760 you're exactly right. Um, there's just no way. Now, uh, I have gotten fair amount of emails as we've

00:48:29.040 been talking about this from people saying, okay, well, uh, you know, you say life is pointless if,

00:48:35.140 if, if it's all predestined. Well, but God, God, you know, it's, it's this old conundrum, uh, this

00:48:40.220 whole chestnut about, um, well, God has perfect knowledge. God is, is omniscient. So he knows what's

00:48:49.000 going to happen to you. And because he knows what's going to happen to you, that has to happen because

00:48:54.420 if, if, if, you know, if he knows what choice you're going to make, and then you make a different

00:48:57.640 choice and he didn't know it, therefore he's not omniscient. Um, that's, that's not what we're

00:49:03.040 talking about. That's not predestination. The fact that God who exists outside of time

00:49:07.000 knows all that is happening, or we say we, God knows what is going to happen. Well, he exists

00:49:13.580 outside of time for, so for him it is all is now. So he knows what is happening. That's yes. I believe

00:49:20.100 that I believe that God's omniscient. So he does know what quote unquote will happen to you.

00:49:26.380 We'll just phrase it that way for the sake of argument. I believe that that's not the same

00:49:32.320 thing as predestination predestined means that God engineered it that way from before you were even

00:49:40.560 conceived. He had, he himself had already put you on a track before you, you ever existed before you

00:49:48.800 made a single choice before you ever did anything. He had put you potentially on a track to suffer

00:49:54.600 forever in the fires of hell. That's a pre that's what predestination predetermination. That's what

00:50:00.540 it means. If you're talking about anything other than that, not then you can call it predestination,

00:50:05.540 but that's not really what it is. Um, so predestination, if it is predestination,

00:50:16.540 as in you are predestined, as in you had a destiny that was given to you by, by a force outside of you

00:50:22.740 before you ever exist, if that's what we're talking about, then I think it is a horrific doctrine

00:50:29.440 actually, um, that undermines the whole point of everything. Um, and, uh, and, uh, you know,

00:50:40.600 the whole concept of hell of, of, of people being eternally punished is already difficult for any

00:50:51.360 thinking person to wrap their heads around. Right. I mean, that's, that's something I think,

00:50:54.540 I think anyone who's, any Christian who's thought about it, who's actually sat down and thought about

00:50:58.180 it has struggled with it. Uh, if you, if you say you haven't struggled with the doctrine of hell,

00:51:02.460 then that just means you haven't thought about it or you're lying because there's two options,

00:51:06.220 right. Um, so it's already difficult. You've just made it impossible by, by adding in this element

00:51:14.420 of there could be people who are, who are created for the purpose of suffering forever. That just makes

00:51:19.460 it, no, I don't accept that. I can't, it's impossible to accept. Um, and it's certainly not biblical

00:51:29.220 because the Bible really seems to indicate over and over again, that there is a way for you to

00:51:36.200 avoid that, that, uh, that, uh, that eventuality. Um, and that, you know, involves your own consent

00:51:46.280 and your own choices. So it was all predestined. Then the Bible lied to us, but I don't believe

00:51:55.000 that. All right, let's leave it there. Uh, we got to head into a weekend. I hope you guys all have a

00:51:59.500 great weekend. Godspeed. If you prefer facts over feelings, if you aren't offended by the brutal

00:52:17.900 truth, if you can still laugh at the nuttiness filling our national news cycle, well, tune on

00:52:22.380 into the Ben Shapiro show where you'll get a whole lot of that and much more. We'll see you there.

The Matt Walsh Show - July 26, 2019

Ep. 304 - You Can Be Pro-Life And Pro-Death Penalty

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