The Matt Walsh Show - June 05, 2018


Ep. 43 - The Truth About The Masterpiece Cakeshop Case

Hosted by
Matt Walsh
Mentioned
Jack Phillips Godspeed Mullins Craig Klan
Ep. 42 - Planned Parenthood Is A Rapist's Best Friend Ep. 44 - Stop Blaming Millennials For Everything

Episode Stats


Length

17 minutes

Words per minute

162.27

Word count

2,806

Sentence count

161

Harmful content

Misogyny

1

sentences flagged

Toxicity

15

sentences flagged

Hate speech

7

sentences flagged


Summary

Summaries generated with gmurro/bart-large-finetuned-filtered-spotify-podcast-summ .

The Supreme Court ruled in favor of Jack Phillips, the Christian baker at Masterpiece Cake Shop in Colorado who refused to make a cake for a gay wedding because of his religious beliefs. This is a big victory for Jack Phillips and a victory for religious liberty. But we have to be prepared for the gay lobby to go after him again.

Transcript

Transcript generated with Whisper (turbo).
Misogyny classifications generated with MilaNLProc/bert-base-uncased-ear-misogyny .
Toxicity classifications generated with s-nlp/roberta_toxicity_classifier .
Hate speech classifications generated with facebook/roberta-hate-speech-dynabench-r4-target .
Hosts, guests, and mentioned names generated with spaCy (en_core_web_sm), reconciled against Wikidata.
00:00:00.000 I'm sure yesterday you heard that the Supreme Court ruled in favor of Jack Phillips, the Christian baker at Masterpiece Cake Shop in Colorado who refused to make a cake for a gay wedding.
00:00:11.520 They ruled in favor of him. It was a big victory for him, Jack Phillips specifically, personally, which is great because he's a good and decent man.
00:00:20.240 He was being persecuted by this government agency that the Supreme Court determined, the government agency being the Colorado Civil Rights Commission, Supreme Court determined that they were just openly hostile and prejudiced against Jack Phillips.
00:00:36.760 And so that's essentially what the Supreme Court decided, that he personally was being victimized by this government agency that could not disguise its contempt for Phillips and his religious beliefs.
00:00:53.260 As far as the broader questions of the First Amendment and religious liberty, they sort of left that alone and didn't touch it.
00:01:02.020 So that's it's I don't think we get the big victory for religious liberty that we wanted, although we could still celebrate that this this man who had been unfairly targeted has been vindicated.
00:01:17.240 And this government agency has been rebuked by the Supreme Court and humiliated and embarrassed.
00:01:23.000 So that's that's good. That's justice. And we can also celebrate the fact that the other set of bullies in this case, that being the gay couple themselves, they also lost and have now been humiliated in front of the world.
00:01:36.840 Which is what they really, which is what they richly deserve, because they really, their behavior in this case has been just utterly despicable, just awful. 0.94
00:01:50.220 And let's start with the fact that the gay couple very clearly targeted Jack Phillips because of his religious beliefs.
00:01:57.840 I simply don't believe that in a in a state, in one of the most gay friendly, most liberal states in the union, where there are hundreds of bakeries and other stores to choose from where you might find a wedding cake. 0.99
00:02:16.120 I don't believe that they just so happened coincidentally to walk in the door of the one bakery in the whole state run by a guy who is so orthodox and conservative in his Christian faith that he won't even make Halloween cakes.
00:02:32.960 I don't believe that's a coincidence. And if I were inclined to believe that it is a coincidence, it would become clear that it's not coincidental.
00:02:41.020 When you look at how they reacted, what their response was, when Jack Phillips explained that he could not make them a customized gay wedding cake.
00:02:50.940 After being told that, you know, they could have responded a number of different ways.
00:02:55.460 They could have said, OK, you won't make a customized cake. I understand that. I respect your beliefs.
00:03:00.820 So instead, we'll just buy a regular wedding cake and we'll customize it ourselves or we'll get someone else to decorate it, whatever.
00:03:06.420 They could have done that.
00:03:07.140 Or they could have done what would probably be the most logical thing to do, and that is to just leave the store and go somewhere else, go anywhere else.
00:03:18.060 And if they really feel personally offended, then they'd be perfectly free to tell their friends that Jack Phillips at Masterpiece Cake Shop won't make gay weddings because he disapproves of gay marriage.
00:03:31.700 And, you know, they'd be perfectly free to do that. And, you know, they'd be perfectly free to do that. That would also be reasonable.
00:03:37.800 But they didn't choose either of those options.
00:03:41.120 Either a decent, reasonable person would choose either option.
00:03:46.180 But these are indecent people. These are bullies. 0.95
00:03:49.720 And so they went with option three, and that is they responded to Jack Phillips not making a cake.
00:03:56.900 They responded to that by embarking on a five-year mission to ruin his business, destroy him personally, and impoverish his family.
00:04:06.960 That's how they responded.
00:04:08.500 He said, oh, I'm sorry, I can't make that cake.
00:04:10.720 They said, OK, I'm going to ruin your life.
00:04:13.080 And they lost.
00:04:15.200 And that's a great thing. 0.99
00:04:17.600 But we have to be prepared for the fact that the fascist bullies on the left and in the gay lobby, they're going to come back and try it again. 0.98
00:04:26.800 They might not try it again with Jack Phillips after they just lost that. 0.97
00:04:29.660 But I think, in fact, they're going to double their efforts now to punish Christian business owners for being Christian.
00:04:36.900 And you're going to find even more Christian business owners targeted. 0.98
00:04:39.780 First, because for retribution and, you know, the gay lobby is very vengeful, very spiteful, hateful, and vengeful. 0.97
00:04:51.800 And on the rare occasion that they suffer a loss, they're going to find they're going to make you pay for it. 0.98
00:04:58.080 That's very clear.
00:04:59.500 So that's what's going to happen here out of vengeance.
00:05:02.400 And also because they want the Supreme Court to basically overturn the First Amendment.
00:05:08.040 That's the that's the result they were looking for.
00:05:11.640 They wanted the Supreme Court to come out and say to Christian business owners, you do not have the right to decide how you do business and who you do business with.
00:05:23.260 You don't have the right to decide that you don't want to participate in or promote or celebrate an event that you find morally problematic.
00:05:31.780 So they were looking for the overturning of the First Amendment, and they're going to keep going at it until until they achieve that that result.
00:05:42.400 So I think that means that we can't just, you know, rest on our laurels here and kick back and say, well, this is over.
00:05:50.800 It's done because it's not.
00:05:51.840 And that's why I think it's important to make very clear what exactly as Christians and conservatives, as constitutionalists, as people who believe in freedom, we need to make clear what our point is exactly when it comes to these kinds of cases.
00:06:07.820 And so that's why we have to stipulate, because there seems to be a lot of confusion in this regard.
00:06:15.240 This is not a question of whether or not a business owner has the right to refuse service to anybody.
00:06:23.780 That's not the question in this case.
00:06:26.680 Now, personally, I happen to believe that a business owner should have that right to refuse service to anyone.
00:06:33.080 I think that's the simplest answer.
00:06:36.040 You're a business owner.
00:06:37.260 You own the building.
00:06:38.260 You own the business.
00:06:39.120 It's your labor.
00:06:40.080 It's your product.
00:06:40.860 It's your service.
00:06:41.820 You get to decide who can take part in this, who can purchase it and who can't.
00:06:49.000 And you should be able to refuse service to anyone, even for awful and racist reasons.
00:06:55.420 That's how it should be.
00:06:57.320 Now, that's not how the laws in our country are actually written right now.
00:07:01.420 But as the laws are currently written, you don't have the right to refuse service to anyone,
00:07:06.880 and you don't have the right to discriminate based on who somebody is, even if I think that you should have that right.
00:07:14.200 Now, and I know, of course, what people will say is, well, what if a business owner refuses service to somebody because they're black?
00:07:23.660 Now, I think that would be morally wrong for a business owner to do that.
00:07:28.380 It would also be financially suicidal.
00:07:31.540 But yes, I think you should have that right.
00:07:33.840 And if the government were to come out tomorrow and declare to all business owners, hey, you guys can do what you want, refuse service to anybody.
00:07:41.160 If they were to say that, I don't think you're going to have hundreds of businesses who say, oh, finally, now we can discriminate against black people like we've always wanted to do.
00:07:52.500 No, I don't think that's going to happen.
00:07:54.060 I mean, and if you did have like two or three businesses in the entire country that said, okay, we're going to be segregated based on race now.
00:08:03.340 So, fine, let them come out and announce that policy and their businesses will be, they'll be out of business by the next day.
00:08:12.340 I mean, I give them about a 24 hour lifespan because they're going to lose all, only the most dedicated and hardcore racists would still patronize a business like that.
00:08:25.360 And there just aren't enough people like that to keep a business going.
00:08:28.460 So, yeah, you know what?
00:08:29.320 This is how I feel about it.
00:08:30.380 If there is, in my local community, if there's a business owner out there who is so brimming with racism that he would deny service to black people if given the ability to do so, I say, yes, let him come out and announce himself.
00:08:46.340 Let him expose himself so that I can stop giving him my money. 0.96
00:08:49.560 Hey, if like a coffee shop down the street is run by a despicable, horrible racist, I'd prefer it if he announced it to everyone so that I can stop going there and giving him my money. 0.88
00:09:03.320 Anyway, these are all interesting questions, but they're actually irrelevant to the Masterpiece Cake Shop case or to any of these Christian business owner cases, you know, when it comes to gay weddings and so forth. 0.55
00:09:17.660 They're actually completely irrelevant because the question is not, it's not a question of can a business owner refuse service to someone based on who they are?
00:09:31.800 The question is, can a business owner refuse to participate in or promote or celebrate an event that they think is morally wrong?
00:09:47.540 So, Jack Phillips, he did not refuse service to gay people.
00:09:52.580 He refused service to a gay wedding.
00:09:56.400 Mullins and Craig, the gay couple, they could have bought anything in the store.
00:10:01.200 They could have bought 50 wedding cakes if they wanted to.
00:10:05.440 They could have bought every cupcake and brownie and cookie in the store if they wanted to.
00:10:09.840 He did not say to them, oh, get out of here.
00:10:12.200 We don't serve your kind. 1.00
00:10:13.660 They could have bought anything.
00:10:15.360 He did not refuse service to them based on who they were.
00:10:19.160 That's not what happened.
00:10:21.540 He simply said, I cannot participate in this particular event.
00:10:26.820 Now, if you want to buy a cake that you're going to just go home and eat yourself or you want to buy a birthday cake, you want to buy a cake for anything, whatever you want, you can have it.
00:10:37.420 I just cannot make a special customized cake for a gay wedding. 1.00
00:10:42.020 That's what I can't do.
00:10:44.540 It's relevant to note that Jack Phillips in the past had many times in the past refused to make customized cakes for events that he thought were morally problematic.
00:10:59.380 He refused to make Halloween cakes, as I mentioned.
00:11:02.760 He refused to make lewd bachelor party cakes.
00:11:06.500 Now, this is an important point.
00:11:08.440 He refused to make cakes for divorce parties.
00:11:13.100 Now, we happen to live in a society, unfortunately, where divorce parties are a thing, where a couple gets divorced and sometimes they'll throw a party, kind of like they'll throw an anti-wedding reception or an unwedding reception or something, where they'll go out and they'll get a wedding-style cake, but they'll customize it and decorate it specially for divorce, and then they'll celebrate their divorce.
00:11:38.000 Now, it just so happens that a few years ago, a guy went into Masterpiece Cake Shop, and he asked for a divorce party cake.
00:11:49.220 He wanted a wedding cake that was split in half and decorated specially for divorce, and Jack Phillips refused him.
00:11:58.340 Jack Phillips said, I can't make that cake.
00:12:00.480 Now, does that mean that Phillips was refusing to serve a divorced person, or was he refusing to make something for a divorced party?
00:12:11.100 The distinction here is very clear.
00:12:14.300 He'll serve anyone who's divorced. 0.95
00:12:15.920 He'll serve any gay person.
00:12:17.820 He just can't make a cake for this specific event.
00:12:22.120 Why is that?
00:12:24.880 Because when you're a master baker like Jack Phillips, when you're a brilliant baker, when this is your craft, this is what you do for a living, then for you, cake is a work of art.
00:12:40.220 Now, you and I, when we make a cake from like a mix, from a box or something that we bought from the grocery store, that's not a work of art for us.
00:12:49.580 But for Jack Phillips, it's a work of art.
00:12:51.740 It's art.
00:12:52.100 And so for him to make a piece of art that is specially designed to celebrate a certain kind of occasion, well, in his mind, he can't do that and use his creative powers to make this thing, to celebrate an occasion, if he thinks that the occasion itself is morally disordered.
00:13:16.740 And that makes a lot of sense.
00:13:18.940 Of course he needs to have that right as a business owner.
00:13:22.100 Now we can ask the question, was he right for refusing to make this cake?
00:13:27.560 I think he was.
00:13:29.380 But who cares what I think?
00:13:30.860 Who cares what you think?
00:13:32.920 This is his labor.
00:13:34.780 This is his creative energy.
00:13:37.420 He should have the right to decide how he expends it and to what end.
00:13:42.480 So the precedent that the court could set, but didn't, but the precedent they could have set, I think is really clear.
00:13:52.100 And it's a precedent that would give rights and freedoms to guys like Jack Phillips, but would not allow a business owner to refuse service to someone based on their race.
00:14:03.200 You know, there is, it is possible to draw a line there of distinction.
00:14:08.620 Even though I happen to think that the easiest and simplest and most correct thing is just to give business owners the right to refuse service to anyone, that we don't even really need to go that far.
00:14:17.520 What the Supreme Court could say is, you can refuse to participate in or promote or celebrate or provide a good or service to an event or activity that contradicts your moral or religious beliefs.
00:14:31.900 So a black person who just wants to go in and buy a cake to refuse service to him, that doesn't, that doesn't qualify. 0.96
00:14:42.340 That doesn't fall under the parameters here.
00:14:44.260 And that also doesn't really fall under the parameters of the First Amendment. 0.99
00:14:49.220 And if a gay person walked in the store and wanted to buy something, and you said, no, I don't, I'm not going to serve you because you're gay and I hate gay people. 1.00
00:14:58.400 That doesn't fall under the parameters. 0.97
00:15:00.640 And that also isn't really covered by the First Amendment.
00:15:02.980 But if a person comes in, no matter who they are, and they say, hey, I've got this event coming up, and I want, and I, you know, it's, and I want to celebrate the event, and I want you to make something special for that event.
00:15:17.360 Well, then a business owner has the right to decide whether or not that's the kind of event they want to be involved in, whether it's the kind of event that they want to dedicate their labor and their creative energies to celebrate.
00:15:36.420 So, as this controversy continues, and we see more and more cases like this, it's really important for those of us who understand what these cases are really about, it's very important for us to correct people.
00:15:48.060 Anytime you hear someone say, oh, it's, you know, they just want to refuse service to gay people, wrong.
00:15:53.760 That is completely false.
00:15:55.520 That is not what this is about.
00:15:57.220 We are simply saying that a business owner has the right to discriminate against certain events, not people, events, occasions, activities.
00:16:11.540 And I think on some level, we all must agree with that.
00:16:16.220 Now, you might not think that a gay wedding should be one of those occasions, but I'm sure, just to use a classic example that people like to use,
00:16:24.200 because I'm sure you would agree that if you had a black business owner, or really any kind of business owner of any race, and somebody walks in from the Klan and says,
00:16:35.180 we're throwing a big bash for the 70th anniversary of our Klan chapter, and we want you to make a special cake for that occasion,
00:16:42.800 the business owner should have the right to say, no, I'm not going to make a cake for that,
00:16:47.280 because I happen to think that that event is morally wrong and terrible, and I don't want to be involved in it in any way, shape, or form.
00:16:54.200 So, we all believe that there are lines that are drawn, which means that we have to give business owners the power and the right and the ability to make these determinations.
00:17:02.920 That's all.
00:17:04.120 Very simple distinction here, and I don't know why people struggle to understand it.
00:17:09.880 Although I think maybe people don't struggle to understand it, they just pretend that they don't understand it.
00:17:15.380 Thanks for listening. Thanks for watching. Godspeed, everybody.