The Matt Walsh Show - Ep. 45

00:00:00.000 Quick reminder at the top here, the Western Conservative Summit is June 8th and June 9th,

00:00:04.940 so that's Friday and Saturday. I'm going to be speaking on Friday morning. I hope you can come

00:00:08.740 out. It's in Denver. I guess I should probably let you know that. It's in Denver, and the theme

00:00:14.940 this year, it's a good theme. It's fortifying freedom, which is not only catchy with the

00:00:20.040 alliteration, but it's also just a really very meaty kind of subject. So I have a few things to

00:00:27.400 say about freedom that I hope will be useful to you. Now, I want to talk about spiritual stuff

00:00:32.280 today. I tell you that by way of disclaimer at the top. This particular show will be rated R for

00:00:39.100 religious. Just so you know, I know that that kind of content is disturbing and distasteful to some

00:00:44.780 people, so just fair warning. Now, I received an email from somebody who brings up an interesting

00:00:51.720 subject, and I thought it'd be worth discussing with you. The subject is guilt. I will summarize

00:00:58.560 the email for you. He says he's a Christian. He's always been a Christian, though recently he finds

00:01:03.640 that he's experiencing a lot of guilt for past sins, for things in his past, and very intense guilt

00:01:10.680 sometimes, and he's not sure what he should do with these feelings or if he should even be feeling

00:01:15.880 them. Isn't the Christian life supposed to be guilt-free? That's what a lot of people seem to

00:01:20.280 think. He says that the church he attends is not much help because it's a church that tends to treat

00:01:28.820 guilt as an objectively bad thing, you know, that you should just let go of. You should forget,

00:01:36.280 move on, not worry about it. His church seems to preach—he didn't use this term, but he seems to

00:01:41.920 preach kind of a self-acceptance gospel where guilt is nothing but an obstacle to be overcome.

00:01:48.280 He wants to know if I have a better answer to the question of guilt. I don't know if I do. I hope

00:01:52.320 that I do. I'll give it a try. So, a few things on the subject of guilt. First, it's a good sign

00:02:00.040 if you have it. If you have guilt, that's a good sign. It doesn't mean that you're meant to stew in it

00:02:06.140 or drown in it your whole life, but it is a good sign. It's a sign of spiritual alertness.

00:02:14.120 It's a sign of love. Guilt is a sign of love. Now, many Christians, I think today, it would seem

00:02:22.400 that many Christians today feel very little guilt. And so, that means that Christians who do feel guilt,

00:02:29.360 they end up feeling even more alone and more lost and confused because their fellow Christians can't

00:02:36.440 seem to relate to them. Because there are some who can live in sin, can be dishonest, gossipy,

00:02:44.120 materialistic, selfish, lustful, so on and so forth, and yet feel almost no guilt for it.

00:02:51.480 And the thing is, they'll say that they lack this guilt because they have faith in God. And so,

00:02:59.460 what they claim is that their lack of guilt is a sign, a symptom of their faith and of their

00:03:06.340 confidence in God's forgiveness. But that's not really the case. Simply not the case. Their lack of

00:03:13.740 guilt is due to their lack of love for God. A Christian who has never experienced serious,

00:03:21.480 deep guilt either has never sinned. So, I'm not in that category. I don't know about you.

00:03:29.100 Or the other explanation is they don't love God and they don't really care about their faith.

00:03:35.680 Those are really the only two explanations for a Christian who has, who really just never

00:03:40.280 experiences guilt. I've used this analogy before, but if you cheat on your wife and you feel no guilt

00:03:46.880 for it, and maybe you apologize, but you're like, yeah, my bad about it. Sorry about the whole

00:03:51.820 cheating thing. Anyway, what's for dinner? If you have a callous disregard for your wife and for your

00:04:00.240 vows, you can't claim that this is somehow a sign of your confidence in those vows. You can't claim

00:04:08.060 that, oh yeah, well, I don't feel guilty because I know my wife loves me and she wouldn't want me to

00:04:11.980 feel guilty. So, that's why I don't feel guilty. No. If you approach it that way, if you feel no

00:04:16.540 guilt for betraying your wife in such a terrible, evil way, it's because you don't love your wife

00:04:20.820 and you don't care about your vows. And therefore, you're very far away from the place that you need

00:04:27.380 to be in order for true reconciliation to happen. In order for the marriage to be healed, you're very

00:04:34.020 far away from it. Even if your wife is a wonderful, loving person and is ready to forgive and has a

00:04:39.440 forgiving heart, the marriage cannot be saved while you still have that attitude. There are

00:04:46.860 many Christians who have never struggled deeply with guilt, never feel the weight of it, don't

00:04:51.980 understand what you mean when you talk about it. And so, that means they can't repent because the

00:04:56.560 repentance would not be sincere. And without love for God and without repentance, then their souls are

00:05:02.760 in a very dangerous state. And to even call them Christian at all is, well, it's a bit of a stretch,

00:05:10.220 let's just say. But if you have guilt, then your guilt, this guilt that you feel, it means at the very

00:05:17.880 least that you're aware of your sins, that you're alert spiritually, that you love God. You love God

00:05:25.060 enough to feel distraught by your betrayal of him. Remember when you were a kid and how it always felt

00:05:31.980 so much worse. If you got in trouble, it always felt, at least for me, I know, it always felt so

00:05:38.660 much worse if your parents said, I'm disappointed. They don't yell, they don't scream, they just tell

00:05:45.420 you they're disappointed. That always felt worse, especially if they really appear to be disappointed.

00:05:51.280 Like, I don't know if you were ever a kid and you did something, especially when you get a little

00:05:54.980 bit older and you did something really bad and you hurt your pain. It's clear that you hurt them

00:06:01.860 and they're almost too hurt to even be angry. That's always the worst, right? That's always so much

00:06:11.100 worse because you can tell that their disappointment in you and in what you did is rooted in their love

00:06:20.500 for you. And this gives rise to guilt on your part that's rooted in your love for them.

00:06:28.020 So that's the one thing we should remember, that guilt itself is a good sign. Second, we should

00:06:34.060 remember that guilt itself is not the problem. You know, it's uncomfortable, it's painful, depending on

00:06:38.880 the situation, depending on the guilt, it can even feel crushing sometimes. But the guilt is your,

00:06:44.660 the guilt is your soul's response to sin. So sin is the problem. Guilt is not the problem. It's not,

00:06:53.500 we shouldn't talk about getting rid of guilt. Sin is the problem. Guilt, true guilt, you know,

00:07:01.100 what I think we could call healthy guilt, is the Holy Spirit working within you, calling you to

00:07:06.720 repentance and reconciliation. I think the problem in our society today and the church especially is

00:07:13.340 that we kind of go to war against guilt, but not against sin. We treat guilt as the problem itself,

00:07:21.180 as if a healthy Christian ought to feel no guilt whatsoever, no matter what he does. But this is a

00:07:26.180 sign of a dead Christian, of a non-Christian, of a soul that's on the precipice of hell.

00:07:30.900 That's not the sign of a healthy Christian. The church should battle against sin and teach us

00:07:37.140 how to respond to guilt, what to do with it, so that we can be free from the burden of the sin

00:07:43.140 that sparked the guilt, not free from guilt. The objective is to be free from sin, not free from

00:07:49.680 guilt. Be free from guilt because you're free of sin. I think guilt without a correct understanding

00:07:57.180 of sin, guilt without an understanding of divine justice, can lead us to despair. And I think that's

00:08:06.060 one of the reasons why we see so much despair in our secular society. So many people that are just,

00:08:12.780 even if everything else around them, even if their whole life seems like it's a wonderful life in so

00:08:17.860 many ways, still so many people are in despair. And one of the reasons for it, I'm not saying the only

00:08:24.740 reason, but one of the reasons I think in so many cases is this kind of guilt that they don't know

00:08:31.980 what to do with it. They just have it. It brings to mind one of my favorite scenes in my favorite

00:08:39.140 show of all time, Breaking Bad. And in this scene, it's a brilliant scene, Jesse Pinkman, one of the

00:08:45.640 primary characters on the show, he's a drug dealer, also a drug addict. And he's at this kind of drugs,

00:08:50.500 it's kind of like a Narcotics Anonymous, I guess, meeting. And they're all sitting around in a circle

00:08:54.640 on folding chairs. And the leader of the group is preaching self-acceptance. And he's telling

00:08:59.060 everyone, just let go of your guilt, let go of your past, let go of the shame, accept yourself for

00:09:04.040 who you are, forget about your past actions, forget about past evils, and just move on. Well, Jesse,

00:09:09.480 it just so happens at this point in the show, has just murdered an innocent man. And he killed him

00:09:14.820 because he thought he had to, he rationalized it that way. But now the guilt of that action,

00:09:19.960 and of his life of crime in general, that guilt is just eating him alive.

00:09:24.960 And he hears all this stuff about self-acceptance, but it's just garbage to him. It rings so hollow.

00:09:32.760 It just, it's not, there's something deeper that he needs. And self-acceptance and moving on,

00:09:40.440 that doesn't, it doesn't, that's not going to do it for him.

00:09:44.820 So he launches into this brilliant monologue, I think one of the most morally insightful monologues

00:09:49.640 in the history of television, where he's crying out. And he's saying, you know, that, that, that he

00:09:56.400 should be punished for what he's done. He should be judged. He doesn't want to accept himself.

00:10:02.980 He doesn't want to accept his sin. He wants there to be some kind of consequence. Because what's the

00:10:10.180 point of life, if you can just do whatever you want and face no judgment at all? It was kind of

00:10:16.160 a moment, kind of a theme right out of Dostoevsky, which is probably why I liked it so much. But the

00:10:20.260 point is that letting go of guilt, which is what, you know, he was being told in this support group,

00:10:25.340 just, just let go, let go. That's not good enough. It's not a good enough answer for those who are

00:10:32.300 morally aware enough to actually experience true guilt. It's not good enough. There has to be

00:10:39.360 repentance. There has to be accountability. There has to be justice. Even those who are not Christian,

00:10:46.540 yet who have well-formed consciences, still kind of innately recognize this. Whereas Christians who

00:10:54.140 do not have well-formed consciences do not recognize this. So I think what the church should be saying

00:11:00.000 is, here's what I think the church should be saying about guilt. The church should be saying,

00:11:06.160 you feel guilt because you've sinned, and your sins are detestable, and you are right to feel the way

00:11:13.920 you do about them. You've betrayed your father who loves you, and if you love him, you should hate that

00:11:19.800 fact, and you should hate your sin, and you should feel pain because of it. Now, take all of that

00:11:25.980 before him, and repent, and resolve to never do it again. And you've got to have that resolution also.

00:11:36.380 If you don't have the resolution, even if you fail to perfectly carry it out, if you don't make that

00:11:41.300 resolution and mean it, then it's not repentance. Third thing, then the question is, maybe the most

00:11:49.760 difficult question is, well, what do we do about repented sins that still bring guilt?

00:11:57.680 What if you've really reformed your life, you've repented, you resolve to live differently, and

00:12:02.040 you're really carrying that out, though imperfectly, you really have changed through God's grace, and yet

00:12:07.280 still you have guilt for a past that you can't do anything about anymore? Maybe you've done terrible

00:12:14.000 things. You can't do anything about it. You wish it never happened, but it did.

00:12:18.720 And you still feel guilt for it, even though you've repented, and you've thrown yourself on

00:12:23.300 the mercy of God. What do you do about that? And where does that come from? Now, I think,

00:12:29.060 I hope I'm not speaking above my pay grade here, because this is a very deep question, but

00:12:33.160 as I've thought about it, I think there could be a couple of different explanations for that kind of

00:12:38.440 guilt. And they're very different explanations, so each person has to discern prayerfully which

00:12:43.780 explanation applies to their case personally. But I think that persistent guilt for repented sins

00:12:51.340 could be the result of Satan tormented you. Scripture tells us that Satan is our accuser,

00:12:59.300 and he's quite relentless in his accusations. And of course, he doesn't care if you've repented.

00:13:03.460 He'd prefer if you didn't, but that's not going to make him stop. So he might accuse you of repented

00:13:09.480 sins to discourage you from repenting in the future, because he wants you to feel like repentance

00:13:15.900 is kind of fruitless. But mostly, I think he just likes to see you suffer. He enjoys it. And he wants

00:13:22.120 you to find faith and religion burdensome and tiring and painful. And he wants you to see it as a source

00:13:29.980 of self-loathing so that you abandon it. And also, I think Satan is interested in punishing you for

00:13:40.680 repenting. He takes that personally. He doesn't like it. And so he's going to try to speak to you in

00:13:47.740 the back of your mind and say, oh, yeah, well, remember what you did? Remember this? Remember this thing you

00:13:52.860 did? You disgusting person. But here again, even this guilt, which is really more of a false guilt

00:14:00.820 because it comes not from the Holy Spirit, but from the evil spirit. But even this guilt is a sign

00:14:05.340 that, you know, you're kind of onto something, that you're a threat to Satan, that he knows that you're

00:14:09.900 almost lost to him, that you're on the right path. And he doesn't like that. So he throws this against

00:14:14.320 you. This is a desperate. This is when Satan gets really desperate. This is his most desperate move

00:14:18.700 is when he starts doing this. He's trying to just scare you. He doesn't bother. Keep in mind,

00:14:25.880 he doesn't bother tormenting the shallowest kinds of people with guilt because their consciences are

00:14:33.000 too dead anyway, and they have no love for God. So he's got nothing to work with and he doesn't need

00:14:37.840 to anyway. He's perfectly fine. You know, he's perfectly fine with those kinds of people to just

00:14:44.700 let them be comfortable. And if they never feel any guilt, then that's great as far as he's concerned.

00:14:49.820 But if you're struggling deeply with guilt, then that means that he has raw material to work with.

00:14:55.320 So like, look at it this way. If you're kind of a prodigal son figure, you live deeply in sin.

00:15:03.320 Now you've come to God and you've come sincerely and you've repented. And that's a wonderful thing.

00:15:08.900 God rejoices over every lost sheep that he finds. And that's wonderful. However, unfortunately,

00:15:17.740 now Satan has a lot of raw material to work with. He's got the perfect raw material because he has

00:15:23.880 your past sins on one hand, which he knows about and he's seen and he delighted in when they were

00:15:30.380 happening. And he takes it very personally that you stop doing those things. So he has that on one

00:15:35.740 hand. On the other hand, he has your love of God on the other. He also has your love of God. That's

00:15:40.440 also raw material that he can work with. He can exploit both of them. He's got to play them off of

00:15:45.200 each other. But you love God. You've got your past sins. So that's the material that he's working with.

00:15:52.580 Now, how do you know if your guilt has this origin? Is it, you know, does this guilt have

00:15:57.460 diabolical origin or does it have heavenly origin? Well, if it's a repented sin and the guilt

00:16:05.200 that you feel from it leads to self-hatred and despair, well, then that's from Satan because

00:16:11.900 God would never give you those kinds of feelings. He doesn't want you to feel that way. God will stir

00:16:17.300 in your heart a guilt that will drive you to repent and to restoration and to reformation.

00:16:25.240 He's going to give you a guilt, in other words, that brings you closer to him.

00:16:27.940 But if your guilt is drawing you away into the abyss, into despair, into faithlessness,

00:16:35.940 into self-hatred, into resentment, then you should know that it's not God leading you there.

00:16:43.400 So rebuke Satan in that case and give yourself over to God and his protection because that's Satan.

00:16:49.220 But, you know, I guess we have to ask ourselves, is all guilt for past sin, for repentant sin?

00:16:57.500 Is that always necessarily the work of Satan? I don't think so. And this is where it gets confusing.

00:17:02.660 It's very difficult. It sometimes can be hard to discern. It's a scary thing to think about. But

00:17:06.940 as fallen people in our conscience, sometimes it can be hard to discern. Is this a voice of light

00:17:15.340 speaking to you or a voice of darkness? It can be hard to discern sometimes. And Satan comes disguised

00:17:19.740 as an angel of light. So, but I don't think that all guilt that you might feel, even for past sins,

00:17:25.520 even for repentances, I don't think it's necessarily the work of Satan. And it would be a mistake

00:17:29.140 to assume that it is. Because it could be a sign, number one, that your repentance was not true.

00:17:35.480 It was not sincere. It was not complete. You know, when you've lived deeply in sin and you've done

00:17:41.040 terrible things, to truly repent can sometimes be a process to really get yourself to a point or to

00:17:48.260 allow God to get you through his grace to a point of really confronting that and feeling true sorrow

00:17:55.020 for it. It's not something that will just happen overnight. I think we're mistaken if we assume

00:18:00.860 that repentance and forgiveness are simple and painless acts. And we're mistaken if we assume that

00:18:07.120 our journey out of the darkness is going to be quick and comfortable. It's not going to be.

00:18:14.380 It's going to be a process. It takes some time. And so you may think that you've sufficiently repented,

00:18:20.860 but you may not have. Especially, again, if it's a life of sin and you in a fleeting moment say,

00:18:26.100 oh my gosh, I'm sorry. That may not be true repentance. That may just be an emotional experience

00:18:30.780 that you had, a fleeting emotional experience. Now I'd ask you, you know, do you think, take a,

00:18:36.960 let's just take a really horrible thing. So think about a rapist or a murderer. Can someone like that

00:18:45.240 expect to repent sincerely and from then on feel no guilt, no pain, no sadness, no grief,

00:18:53.460 no sorrow over what they've done? Of course not. Because our sins still have consequences. They still

00:18:59.680 leave marks. They still cause scars in ourselves and on other people. They still have a weight to

00:19:04.340 them, even when we repent. And this idea of cheap repentance, kind of like the cheap grace that

00:19:08.940 Bonhoeffer talks about, it's very damaging. It's very misleading. After all, the worst sins that we can

00:19:16.320 commit are the sins that cause scandal and hurt to other people. And so even if we've repented of the

00:19:23.260 damage that we've done to other people, the other people may still have to live with what we've done.

00:19:29.680 Depending on what it is, they may still have pain for the rest of their lives. They may still have

00:19:35.080 even worse than that. You know, if we have been Christians and we've given a very bad example, we've

00:19:41.440 scandalized other people with our example and led them into sin, it's a terrible thing. It's the worst

00:19:48.140 thing. And those people may still be struggling because of us. And if we've really repented and we really

00:19:55.120 love God and we really love our fellow man, of course, we're going to still feel some pain about

00:20:00.020 that. A truly repented rapist is going to realize that, well, the person that he raped is still out

00:20:07.340 there and they still are going to have to suffer from this for the rest of their lives. And I think

00:20:14.120 this, you know, this becomes a stumbling block for a lot of people who maybe are considering becoming

00:20:17.280 Christian. And they hear about this really cheap idea of repentance and forgiveness. And it causes a

00:20:22.600 I've heard this from people. It causes them to think twice about becoming Christian because it

00:20:30.240 just doesn't, there's something about it. It seems almost sociopathic. And they'll say, like,

00:20:35.520 you're telling me that someone can do all these horrible things to other people and victimize them

00:20:39.840 and then just in a second say, oh, I'm sorry. And they're good to go and they can just live the

00:20:44.660 rest of their life just whistling on by, whistling through the rose bushes and just, you know,

00:20:48.960 like smelling the roses, not even thinking about what they've done to anybody else.

00:20:53.460 That's not right. Well, no, that's not the way it is. Of course, if we have done terrible things and

00:21:01.600 we've hurt other people, especially, we're going to feel pain. It shouldn't be debilitating. It

00:21:07.220 shouldn't be a self-loathing pain. It shouldn't lead us away from God and into despair, but it may still

00:21:14.920 be there. And depending on what it is, it may always be there. And so maybe we have to live with

00:21:22.720 it. We have to carry it. It's our cross that we have made for ourselves and it's our burden. We have

00:21:28.840 to accept it in humility and carry on. At the very least, I think if we still have a certain pain over

00:21:35.800 the thought of things we've done to other people, that's a pain that God may give to us. And one of the

00:21:41.680 things that he wants us to do with it for sure is to pray for those other people. If we have ever

00:21:46.920 scandalized somebody or victimized them in any way, we should be praying for them. Like every day,

00:21:52.600 we should be praying for them for the rest of our lives. That's what true repentance is. It's not,

00:21:57.780 it's just not good enough to say, well, sorry, I guess they'll have to deal with that. Anyway,

00:22:03.100 I'm going to go over here. Good luck with all that that I did to you. See you later. No, we shouldn't

00:22:09.180 hate ourselves for it. But, uh, I mean, it's just, it's, it's, it's not as simple as, as, as that is

00:22:15.800 just riding off into the sunset. Like it never happened. One other thought I've found that, uh,

00:22:22.300 I will experience. And one other thing about that, again, this is, and I think that's just so

00:22:27.460 important to draw this distinction that even remembering past things that we've done, you know,

00:22:33.200 the pain that comes with that. I know I already said this, but I just think it needs to be

00:22:37.000 emphasized that it is not a self-loathing pain. And if it gets into self-loathing territory,

00:22:43.000 then that is not from God. It's not, so it's, it's more of just throwing ourselves at the mercy

00:22:50.720 of God, going to God and saying, you know, I know I've done this terrible thing. I've repented of it.

00:22:56.560 What else can I do though? I want, I maybe I don't need to do anything, but what else can I,

00:23:01.800 I want to do more to try to make it right, to try to correct what I've done. And so one of those

00:23:08.000 things God might say is, well, you know, you've hurt somebody you've done pray for them. That's

00:23:11.920 one thing you can do. All right. One of the thought I've, um, I've often found that I will experience

00:23:16.020 myself pangs of a serious guilt in moments when I find myself condemning other people in my heart.

00:23:23.280 And so then I'll feel guilt, not just for the condemnation, but also for a past sin of my own,

00:23:28.120 you know, a similar sin to the one that I'm noticing in another person will often come to

00:23:33.500 the forefront of my mind when I am busy noticing someone else's sin. Now, who causes that to happen?

00:23:40.860 That's not from Satan. The last thing Satan would do is that he prefers it. If we, if we stew in our,

00:23:47.120 in our condemnation and resent of our fellow man, he doesn't want to interrupt that process at all.

00:23:52.420 No, that again is guilt and pain, um, from God. He's trying to give you humility. He's not holding

00:24:00.900 it against you. He's not, uh, trying to torment you, but he's just saying, I know this, when this

00:24:07.480 happens to me, he's saying to me what he said to the crowd that we're going to stone the adulterous

00:24:12.580 woman. He's just saying, he who is without sin. And he's also saying, you know, remember your,

00:24:19.660 your past, remember your sin. Remember, because I want you to remember what I've delivered you from

00:24:25.340 because I'm merciful. You're no better than the person that you condemn. So have humility.

00:24:32.520 Don't, don't use my mercy and my forgiveness and my generosity as a means or as a reason for you to

00:24:39.680 become prideful and arrogant. Yeah. God wants to, I don't think it's true that God wants us to forget

00:24:45.840 our past and our sins. Does not want us to forget because if we forget our sin and our past,

00:24:52.820 then we forget about his mercy and his love. And we, we, we, we, we cannot appreciate it and be

00:24:57.920 grateful for it. So I think he may bring that to the forefront of our mind sometimes to humble us

00:25:03.760 and also to give us gratitude and joy so that we can remember like, oh my gosh, I think about that

00:25:11.460 thing that I did, but yet he's forgiven. I do this with my own kids. Sometimes I recently,

00:25:16.520 my son got in trouble for yelling at his sister. Um, and then yelling at me after I tried to correct

00:25:23.060 him and his sister was kind of triumphant about it, you know, as kids can tend to be in these

00:25:29.460 situations. And so his sister came up to me and she said, oh, dad, daddy, Luke was really wrong for

00:25:36.860 yelling like that. I'm so glad that I didn't yell. And of course I had to say to her, you know,

00:25:42.500 yeah, he was, he made a mistake. He shouldn't have acted that way. You have also acted that way

00:25:46.860 in the past. So let's, let's, let's remember that everybody makes mistakes, including you.

00:25:54.400 And that was just my way of trying to teach her a little bit of humility and also compassion for her

00:26:00.200 brother so that she's not taking delight in the fact that he got punished. And so I think that God,

00:26:06.360 who's our heavenly father, um, can kind of do the same thing with us because we're his children.

00:26:11.500 And I think a lot of times we need that reminder and there might be a little bit of pain, a little

00:26:15.920 bit of guilt attached to it when we feel it, but, uh, but that's good. So I hope I, I hope,

00:26:22.160 I hope some of that was, was useful. Those are my thoughts about, about guilt. And, um, but if you're

00:26:28.280 really struggling with it, remember that you can never pray too much and probably almost all of us are

00:26:35.480 praying too little. I know I am. So always just bring it back to God and ask him, what do you want

00:26:42.280 me to do with this? What are you trying to teach me? What are you trying to show me?

00:26:47.040 Thanks for watching everybody. Thanks for listening. Godspeed.

The Matt Walsh Show - June 07, 2018

Ep. 45 - Guilt Is Good

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