The Matt Walsh Show - June 11, 2018


Ep. 47 - The Two Dangerous Mistakes We Make When We Discuss Suicide


Episode Stats

Length

27 minutes

Words per Minute

151.40521

Word Count

4,229

Sentence Count

302

Misogynist Sentences

1

Hate Speech Sentences

6


Summary

Two prominent people, Anthony Bourdain and Kate Spade, took their own lives last week, and the number of suicides across the U.S. is on the rise. In this episode, Dr. Aaron Sorkin discusses why this is happening and why we continue to react in the worst possible ways to it.


Transcript

00:00:00.000 So I want to say some things about suicide today.
00:00:03.480 It's a difficult subject, a painful subject, a personal subject.
00:00:08.360 Like so many millions of other people, this is something that I've not only heard about on the news,
00:00:14.640 but I've also encountered around me in my own life, in the lives of people close to me especially.
00:00:23.720 And I think that's probably the case for almost everybody that's watching this right now,
00:00:27.540 almost everybody, unfortunately, in the country is probably connected to this issue personally in some way.
00:00:35.600 You know, so that's what I want to talk about.
00:00:38.060 And the reason I want to tell you ahead of time that this is something that I've encountered
00:00:43.720 is so that you understand that, you know, I'm not just approaching this from a purely analytical kind of detached perspective,
00:00:52.560 but from a, from I hope, a rational and grounded perspective, but also a human one, a personal one.
00:01:01.600 Now, obviously, the reason that we're discussing this now is that two prominent people killed themselves last week,
00:01:07.260 Anthony Bourdain and Kate Spade.
00:01:10.360 And in the meantime, there have been news reports about the rapidly rising suicide rate across the country.
00:01:17.600 And it's rising nearly everywhere in every state.
00:01:21.820 So something is clearly happening in this country.
00:01:26.820 Something, something is going wrong.
00:01:29.360 I think that's obvious.
00:01:32.300 And when we see suicide, especially among the rich and famous and successful,
00:01:37.200 it makes us stop and kind of ponder for a minute because our assumptions are overturned
00:01:43.600 overturned and the facade kind of melts away and we're awakened to this, or reawakened, I guess,
00:01:50.240 to this stark reality where we realize that wealth and comfort and success are just frills.
00:01:57.360 They're, they're superficial.
00:01:58.800 They don't, they don't mean anything necessarily because a person can have all that and yet be deeply
00:02:05.340 in despair.
00:02:06.560 They can be hopeless and miserable and yet have all that.
00:02:10.180 So there has to be more to life, we realize.
00:02:16.100 We, you know, we, we often will look at rich and famous people and we'll say, man, they must
00:02:22.920 really love their lives, right?
00:02:25.660 We'll look at somebody who's like that and we'll say, man, he must really love his life.
00:02:31.300 But what do we mean when we say that?
00:02:34.300 What we really mean is that they must love the comforts and luxuries in their lives.
00:02:42.920 But to love comfort and luxury is not to love life.
00:02:47.860 To love life is to love life, regardless of the circumstances.
00:02:52.100 So if we can't love life in poverty, if we can't love it in suffering, if we can't love
00:02:59.520 it while deprived and wanting and hungry and all of that, then we don't love it.
00:03:05.040 And so for those of us who can't even imagine loving life under those circumstances, and our
00:03:11.940 affection for life is tied completely to either the material goods that we have or the material
00:03:19.720 goods that we dream of one day accumulating, for those of us in that, in that category,
00:03:24.920 we, we, we don't love life and we are either in despair or we're on the edge of despair.
00:03:31.040 And so I think that there are a great many people in this country who are either in despair
00:03:37.980 or are on the edge of it.
00:03:40.620 And our reaction to the suicides of famous, successful people just kind of speaks to this.
00:03:47.060 Yeah, of course, we should be sad.
00:03:50.220 Of course, it's, you know, of course, we're going to be surprised.
00:03:56.660 But the fact that we're shocked at the very idea that someone who is rich and famous might
00:04:02.960 kill themselves, that I think that reveals a something within ourselves that we have a,
00:04:09.940 a, a, a misunderstanding about life and about what's supposed to make people happy.
00:04:17.060 So even with all of these facts and these things tragically demonstrated to us by the suicides
00:04:24.820 of people like Anthony Bourdain and Kate Spade, I think we continue in the face of this issue,
00:04:29.900 we continue to miss the point of everything.
00:04:33.840 And we continue to perpetuate the problem by reacting to suicide in the worst possible ways
00:04:41.040 and saying the worst possible things about it.
00:04:44.420 And so I want to focus today, especially on two mistakes that I think we make when we talk about suicide.
00:04:52.180 And I think these are dangerous mistakes.
00:04:54.220 These are mistakes that are leading people down very dark paths.
00:04:57.840 So, um, the first mistake.
00:05:03.240 I've heard time and time again, especially after the suicide of somebody famous,
00:05:07.900 that suicide is not a choice.
00:05:13.380 This is what people will say.
00:05:15.440 They say, well, it's not a choice.
00:05:16.480 Nobody would choose that.
00:05:18.720 This, I think this is basically well-intentioned when people say this,
00:05:22.160 that they're trying to be generous to the departed.
00:05:25.300 They don't want to suggest that somebody would actually choose this,
00:05:29.740 because if they chose it, then that means that they also chose to leave their families
00:05:34.400 and to leave the whole world behind and to cause all this, uh, pain and suffering to those around them.
00:05:41.200 And, um, and we, we don't want to say that because if we say that,
00:05:46.700 then that means that we're saying that suicide is selfish.
00:05:49.080 And, um, which is, which is something that by the way, um, in the old days,
00:05:54.960 it was generally accepted by everyone that it's a selfish act,
00:05:58.040 but now you're not allowed to say that.
00:06:00.560 You don't, we don't want to say that because it's, it's very mean to say.
00:06:04.120 So instead we go all the way to the other extreme
00:06:07.260 and we completely exonerate the person who's committed suicide.
00:06:13.040 We completely not only exonerate them, but we, we, um, defend,
00:06:17.700 we, we, we practically defend what they did by saying that it wasn't a choice.
00:06:23.520 It was merely the result of depression and death is the result of depression.
00:06:28.640 Like death may be the result of pancreatic cancer.
00:06:31.540 We say, it's just something you, you can't help it.
00:06:34.320 You, you, you have, you play no part in it whatsoever.
00:06:36.820 It just happens to you.
00:06:38.860 That's all in the same way that if you have cancer
00:06:42.200 and your organs start shutting down and what have you, it's, it's,
00:06:45.300 it's exactly the same.
00:06:46.540 This is what I've been told.
00:06:47.380 It's exactly the same.
00:06:48.360 There's no difference.
00:06:49.580 And when a person commits suicide from depression,
00:06:51.640 they play no purposeful role in it at all.
00:06:55.260 So what a horrible, horrible thing to say.
00:07:03.720 It is absolutely the worst thing to say.
00:07:07.260 I mean, it really is horrible.
00:07:09.160 And if this is the kind of thing that you say in the wake of, uh, you know,
00:07:13.140 suicide being in the news, I ask you to stop saying that because it's wrong.
00:07:19.440 It's a lie.
00:07:21.060 And you're hurting people.
00:07:22.280 It is a horrible, terrible, awful thing to say.
00:07:28.660 To say that it's not a choice at all is a horrible thing.
00:07:34.260 It's not hard to see why it would be so horrible and dangerous.
00:07:38.760 Think about it for a second.
00:07:41.480 Imagine a suicidal person.
00:07:45.120 Imagine a suicidal person who is depressed, lost, and hopeless.
00:07:48.180 He already feels like he has no choice.
00:07:52.360 Like there is no other way.
00:07:53.860 He feels that way.
00:07:55.900 It doesn't mean that that's actually what's going on.
00:07:58.060 It doesn't mean that it's true.
00:08:00.080 But he feels that way.
00:08:03.280 And then you come along and confirm this notion.
00:08:09.100 You come along and say, you're right.
00:08:13.280 You have no choice.
00:08:14.400 Depression just may up and kill you one day against your will.
00:08:17.520 You have no choice in the matter.
00:08:19.040 There's nothing you can do of your own volition.
00:08:21.960 You have no choice.
00:08:26.340 What have you done?
00:08:27.980 In the interest of being fair and generous to the dead,
00:08:32.740 what have you done to the living?
00:08:34.740 Maybe we should focus more, when we talk about suicide,
00:08:39.380 we should focus more on helping the living rather than the dead.
00:08:45.060 Tragically, terribly, the people who are dead are now,
00:08:51.180 they're gone now.
00:08:56.400 But there are people, there's a lot of people that are still alive
00:08:58.880 who are struggling with this.
00:08:59.920 And so when we tell these lies about suicide for the sake of the dead,
00:09:05.680 we hurt the living.
00:09:08.460 And so what have you done to this depressed person
00:09:11.720 who's on the edge of being suicidal or is suicidal,
00:09:14.860 yet is still alive?
00:09:17.740 By telling him he has no choice, what have you done?
00:09:20.800 You've done the opposite of empower him.
00:09:22.820 You've done the opposite of encourage him.
00:09:26.720 You've just told him he has no power.
00:09:28.680 He has no free will.
00:09:30.740 You've just told him depression is a disease like cancer.
00:09:33.580 It's a cancer inside him.
00:09:35.300 There's nothing he can do about it.
00:09:37.980 At all.
00:09:39.840 It may kill him against his will.
00:09:44.060 Do you really not see the problem
00:09:46.000 with saying that to somebody?
00:09:49.520 Do you think when somebody is suicidal,
00:09:52.020 what they need to be told is they have no choice?
00:09:54.440 Now, let's imagine this a little bit more directly and explicitly.
00:10:01.220 Imagine that a man is standing at the top of a building on the ledge,
00:10:05.780 okay?
00:10:06.580 And you're standing there 30 feet away on the top of the building.
00:10:09.300 And he shouts to you and he says,
00:10:12.480 I have no choice.
00:10:13.320 I have to do it.
00:10:14.020 There's no other way.
00:10:15.480 What do you say in response?
00:10:19.300 Do you say,
00:10:20.260 you're right.
00:10:21.140 You have no choice.
00:10:22.920 You're not guilty.
00:10:24.080 This is not,
00:10:24.820 you should have no guilt.
00:10:26.200 This is not a choice.
00:10:27.580 You have no choice.
00:10:29.000 This is a disease doing this to you.
00:10:31.100 Nobody will judge you if you go ahead with it.
00:10:32.820 You have no choice.
00:10:35.500 Is that what you say?
00:10:37.600 Or do you say,
00:10:38.800 you do have a choice.
00:10:41.320 Yes, you do have a choice.
00:10:43.040 You have the power.
00:10:44.200 You are in control.
00:10:45.680 This is all you right now.
00:10:47.760 And you will decide what the next step is.
00:10:51.560 And there is a right and wrong choice here.
00:10:54.320 You have the power to make the right choice.
00:10:57.080 You do.
00:10:59.380 Now, I would suggest that if you,
00:11:01.160 if you said the first thing,
00:11:05.080 you have no choice.
00:11:06.920 To somebody on the edge of a building,
00:11:09.600 you are a monster.
00:11:13.620 You're just a monster.
00:11:17.180 You're like that.
00:11:17.980 What was the case of that girl
00:11:19.240 who encouraged,
00:11:23.700 basically encouraged her boyfriend
00:11:25.240 to commit suicide?
00:11:26.880 And while he was in the car
00:11:28.280 about to go through with the act,
00:11:29.740 she was text messaging him,
00:11:31.900 basically saying,
00:11:33.140 like, yeah, you know,
00:11:33.900 this is the only way.
00:11:34.820 Just go ahead and do it.
00:11:36.960 That's what it reminds me of.
00:11:39.100 If you would actually say that
00:11:40.380 to somebody on the ledge of a building.
00:11:41.900 But you would never say that.
00:11:43.820 You would never say that
00:11:44.800 to somebody on the edge of a building,
00:11:46.080 would you?
00:11:47.240 You would never say it
00:11:48.280 in that situation
00:11:49.080 to somebody on the physical ledge.
00:11:51.220 So why do so many people say it
00:11:54.000 to those who are almost on the ledge?
00:11:56.900 If you wouldn't say it to the person
00:11:59.320 while they're on the ledge
00:12:00.320 about to jump,
00:12:01.700 why would you say it
00:12:02.540 to all the people in our society
00:12:03.920 who are metaphorically right now
00:12:06.280 walking towards that ledge?
00:12:08.460 Why would you take power
00:12:10.440 and choice away from them
00:12:13.020 at the moment
00:12:14.940 when they most need it
00:12:16.480 and most need to realize
00:12:18.100 that they have it?
00:12:20.300 Now, of course,
00:12:21.240 it's true that a suicidal person
00:12:22.740 is compromised intellectually,
00:12:24.880 emotionally.
00:12:25.960 He's burdened.
00:12:27.060 He's in pain.
00:12:29.260 All of these things,
00:12:30.400 the emotional turmoil,
00:12:31.860 the despair,
00:12:32.760 the storm that's raging inside them,
00:12:34.840 these are all mitigating factors
00:12:36.660 when assessing the personal guilt
00:12:39.120 of the person
00:12:39.920 after the act.
00:12:42.720 But here's the thing.
00:12:44.720 We are not the ones
00:12:46.060 who assess the personal guilt
00:12:47.680 after the fact.
00:12:48.820 That's God.
00:12:49.960 That's not our job.
00:12:51.180 He's going to sort that out.
00:12:54.980 We can't.
00:12:55.600 We can't go anywhere
00:12:56.400 near that subject.
00:12:58.460 So it's true
00:12:59.340 that all these things,
00:13:00.560 what's going on
00:13:01.980 inside somebody's head
00:13:03.000 and heart
00:13:03.400 when they make this decision
00:13:04.940 or when they make any decision,
00:13:07.080 that speaks to their
00:13:09.040 personal moral guilt
00:13:10.660 and it can seriously,
00:13:12.560 it would seem,
00:13:13.640 mitigate that guilt.
00:13:14.940 But again,
00:13:15.680 that's not what we're talking about.
00:13:17.160 We're not assessing guilt.
00:13:18.500 You know,
00:13:20.320 we can't assign guilt.
00:13:23.460 Neither can we take guilt away.
00:13:25.920 We can't just sit back
00:13:27.200 and announce that,
00:13:28.160 oh, this person is
00:13:29.080 entirely guilty for this act.
00:13:31.560 And we also can't sit back
00:13:32.660 and say they're not guilty at all.
00:13:34.440 We can't say either one
00:13:35.780 of those things.
00:13:36.680 And to say either one
00:13:37.780 of those things
00:13:38.480 would be a terrible lie.
00:13:41.640 It would also be
00:13:42.240 to put ourselves
00:13:43.060 in the place of God,
00:13:44.040 which we can't do.
00:13:45.860 All we can do
00:13:48.500 is determine
00:13:49.480 what is literally
00:13:51.500 physically true.
00:13:54.460 Does a person
00:13:55.500 choose to act
00:13:56.780 a certain way
00:13:57.660 or not?
00:13:59.720 How much guilt
00:14:00.900 they personally
00:14:01.640 carry with them
00:14:02.540 for choosing it,
00:14:03.380 that's not,
00:14:03.880 we can't do that.
00:14:05.320 But did they choose it?
00:14:08.080 I mean,
00:14:09.400 you know,
00:14:10.480 I pick up this cup.
00:14:11.960 Am I choosing to do this?
00:14:13.040 You can't get inside
00:14:15.520 my mind
00:14:16.400 and tell me anything
00:14:17.960 about what's going on
00:14:18.680 inside my heart
00:14:19.280 or my mind.
00:14:19.980 But I certainly am
00:14:20.840 obviously choosing
00:14:21.480 to do this
00:14:21.980 because nobody else
00:14:22.940 is doing it.
00:14:23.600 I am physically doing it.
00:14:24.680 I am choosing to do it.
00:14:29.700 We have free will.
00:14:31.880 And a choice
00:14:33.020 that is made
00:14:34.200 under great duress
00:14:35.460 is still a choice.
00:14:37.960 a decision
00:14:40.540 made in despair
00:14:41.880 in pain
00:14:43.180 is still a decision.
00:14:46.940 If somebody
00:14:47.660 came into the room
00:14:48.520 right now
00:14:48.820 and put a gun
00:14:49.320 to my head
00:14:49.880 and said,
00:14:50.820 Matt,
00:14:51.100 pick up that cup.
00:14:53.500 You know something?
00:14:54.500 I still have a choice.
00:14:56.620 I could
00:14:57.420 refuse to pick it up.
00:14:59.040 Now,
00:14:59.500 the consequences
00:15:00.160 would be very severe.
00:15:01.380 I'd probably be killed.
00:15:02.300 but I could choose
00:15:03.840 not to do it.
00:15:05.580 So even with a literal
00:15:06.960 gun to my head,
00:15:08.940 my free will
00:15:09.980 and my capacity
00:15:10.980 to choose
00:15:11.800 are still intact.
00:15:13.720 Nobody can take that away.
00:15:16.340 I still have it.
00:15:19.200 To say that
00:15:20.100 suicide is not a choice
00:15:23.620 is either to say
00:15:24.560 that every person
00:15:25.840 who commits suicide
00:15:26.760 is clinically insane
00:15:29.260 or
00:15:31.800 which would be
00:15:32.360 a ridiculous claim
00:15:33.200 obviously
00:15:33.580 or
00:15:34.440 it's to kind of
00:15:35.220 compartmentalize
00:15:36.600 a person's mind
00:15:37.720 and to say
00:15:38.560 okay,
00:15:38.880 well here is you
00:15:39.780 on one hand
00:15:40.540 inside your mind
00:15:41.700 and then over here
00:15:42.900 this is the part
00:15:43.560 of your brain
00:15:44.080 that commits suicide
00:15:46.140 and that part
00:15:46.860 is not you.
00:15:48.340 That's not you.
00:15:49.280 This is you.
00:15:49.900 That's not.
00:15:52.140 What does that mean?
00:15:53.400 If that's not you,
00:15:54.260 who is it?
00:15:55.440 Of course it's you.
00:15:56.180 They're both you.
00:15:56.660 You are a complete
00:16:00.200 whole person.
00:16:01.800 You can't be divided up.
00:16:03.780 You are a complete
00:16:04.720 whole immutable
00:16:05.700 human being.
00:16:07.900 You can't be divided
00:16:09.400 into sections.
00:16:11.740 It's only you.
00:16:13.500 You are the only one
00:16:14.640 who is you.
00:16:16.840 The fact that you're
00:16:17.920 under duress
00:16:18.540 when you make
00:16:19.000 a wrong choice
00:16:19.700 does not mean
00:16:20.340 that it wasn't a choice.
00:16:23.820 Every destructive choice
00:16:25.900 is made
00:16:28.300 under either
00:16:29.260 some kind of duress
00:16:30.380 or in response
00:16:32.320 to a compulsion
00:16:33.240 or a temptation.
00:16:34.620 Every destructive choice
00:16:35.800 is made that way.
00:16:37.660 And the really
00:16:38.300 destructive choices,
00:16:39.420 the really bad choices
00:16:40.880 are always made
00:16:42.420 under severe duress
00:16:43.760 or in response
00:16:44.760 to severe compulsion.
00:16:46.380 So think about
00:16:46.920 the worst
00:16:47.740 crimes
00:16:50.000 that you can imagine.
00:16:50.860 Think about
00:16:51.120 people that are in jail
00:16:51.960 for the worst
00:16:52.420 kinds of crimes.
00:16:54.440 Rape,
00:16:54.800 murder,
00:16:55.580 so on.
00:16:56.880 Nobody does those things
00:16:58.680 while in a calm
00:16:59.700 state of mind.
00:17:01.160 They're always
00:17:02.060 in some kind
00:17:03.080 of turmoil
00:17:03.720 internally.
00:17:05.040 There's always
00:17:05.700 a compulsion.
00:17:07.660 Of course there is.
00:17:09.500 So if suicide
00:17:10.340 is not a choice,
00:17:12.980 then no bad thing
00:17:14.680 is a choice.
00:17:15.900 If we only have
00:17:17.200 free will
00:17:18.060 when we're also
00:17:19.260 free from compulsion
00:17:20.600 and emotional stress,
00:17:22.140 then nobody
00:17:23.620 has free will.
00:17:25.080 And if that's
00:17:25.620 what you believe,
00:17:26.420 that nobody
00:17:26.900 has free will,
00:17:27.740 then so be it.
00:17:28.680 But please,
00:17:29.420 then you have
00:17:29.820 to explain,
00:17:30.960 if you don't believe
00:17:31.520 that anyone
00:17:31.840 has free will,
00:17:32.780 well then what
00:17:33.120 are you doing
00:17:33.500 passing out
00:17:34.040 the suicide hotline?
00:17:35.580 What are you
00:17:35.920 doing saying,
00:17:36.640 you know,
00:17:36.820 if you're depressed,
00:17:37.500 if you feel suicidal,
00:17:38.460 talk to somebody?
00:17:39.300 What are you doing
00:17:39.900 passing out hotlines
00:17:40.860 and giving tips
00:17:41.600 to depressed people
00:17:42.480 if you don't think
00:17:43.560 they have a choice?
00:17:44.960 If you don't think
00:17:45.580 they can choose
00:17:46.840 to act upon
00:17:48.400 the advice
00:17:49.460 you are giving them,
00:17:51.040 then why are you
00:17:52.400 giving it?
00:17:54.560 The fact that
00:17:55.620 you're giving advice
00:17:56.520 means that you know
00:17:57.920 it's a choice,
00:17:58.960 that they have a choice.
00:18:01.000 And so you're trying
00:18:01.900 to influence them
00:18:02.980 to make the right choice,
00:18:04.180 which is a wonderful
00:18:05.020 thing to do.
00:18:07.020 All I'm saying
00:18:08.020 is don't confuse
00:18:09.120 the situation
00:18:09.940 by saying that
00:18:11.280 on one hand
00:18:12.060 and on the other hand
00:18:13.020 saying,
00:18:13.580 well,
00:18:13.800 they don't have a choice.
00:18:16.880 It is a choice
00:18:18.020 in a literal sense.
00:18:19.980 It is a choice.
00:18:22.280 And so we ask ourselves,
00:18:24.080 what is true?
00:18:26.600 Is it a choice
00:18:27.460 or is it not?
00:18:28.240 Well, it's true
00:18:28.840 that it is a choice.
00:18:30.260 We can also ask ourselves,
00:18:31.840 what is the most
00:18:32.480 helpful thing to say
00:18:34.180 to someone
00:18:35.060 who's contemplating suicide?
00:18:37.140 Is it helpful
00:18:38.020 to tell them
00:18:38.660 that they have no choice?
00:18:40.780 Or is it helpful
00:18:41.580 to tell them
00:18:42.060 that they do?
00:18:43.360 I think clearly
00:18:44.220 it's most helpful
00:18:45.060 to tell them
00:18:45.540 that they do.
00:18:46.140 This is not about
00:18:48.640 heaping guilt.
00:18:49.980 It's not about telling,
00:18:50.980 you know,
00:18:51.200 it's not about
00:18:51.940 anything like that.
00:18:53.220 It's about empowering.
00:18:55.800 It's about telling the truth
00:18:57.060 and it's about empowering.
00:19:01.040 And if a person
00:19:01.860 is contemplating this act
00:19:03.700 and they think about
00:19:05.540 the fact that
00:19:06.240 they have a choice
00:19:06.860 and that they have the power,
00:19:08.420 and which isn't to say
00:19:09.080 that this is something
00:19:09.700 they should do
00:19:10.160 on their own.
00:19:11.880 No,
00:19:12.320 because if you're
00:19:13.280 in that state of mind,
00:19:14.300 you need to reach out
00:19:15.180 and talk to somebody,
00:19:16.660 get some help.
00:19:17.700 I agree with that.
00:19:19.560 Don't go through it
00:19:20.360 on your own.
00:19:21.640 The fact that you have
00:19:22.460 a choice doesn't mean
00:19:23.420 that it's something
00:19:23.920 you have to do
00:19:24.420 on your own
00:19:25.020 or should do
00:19:25.540 on your own.
00:19:26.000 You shouldn't.
00:19:28.120 When we get to that point,
00:19:29.180 we have to reach out
00:19:29.920 for help,
00:19:30.320 but that's not
00:19:31.500 the same thing
00:19:32.580 as saying
00:19:33.600 you have no choice
00:19:34.520 because, again,
00:19:35.060 if you have no choice,
00:19:35.820 then you can't even
00:19:36.360 reach out to anybody
00:19:37.220 necessarily.
00:19:39.620 You can't choose
00:19:40.600 to do that.
00:19:42.900 Okay,
00:19:43.100 so the second mistake
00:19:43.880 people make
00:19:45.180 I have seen
00:19:46.360 many people say,
00:19:48.400 again,
00:19:48.760 this is basically
00:19:49.380 well-intentioned,
00:19:50.860 but harmful
00:19:51.520 and foolish.
00:19:53.060 Many people have said
00:19:53.920 that Anthony Bourdain
00:19:56.400 and Kate Spade
00:19:57.740 are finally at peace.
00:20:02.200 This is what I've seen online.
00:20:04.220 They're finally at peace.
00:20:06.420 And this brings to mind
00:20:07.840 that tweet
00:20:08.560 that the Academy sent
00:20:09.920 after Robin Williams
00:20:11.540 committed suicide.
00:20:13.060 Maybe you remember.
00:20:13.680 The tweet was
00:20:15.040 a picture of
00:20:15.900 Aladdin hugging
00:20:16.820 the genie,
00:20:17.700 the genie,
00:20:18.160 which, of course,
00:20:18.500 was voiced by
00:20:19.160 Robin Williams.
00:20:21.460 And the caption said,
00:20:23.440 genie,
00:20:24.140 you're free.
00:20:26.300 Now,
00:20:27.100 these are nice sentiments.
00:20:30.560 They are pleasant
00:20:31.800 sentiments.
00:20:33.660 They're also horrible.
00:20:35.640 Now, again,
00:20:36.520 we're not God.
00:20:37.900 We cannot know
00:20:39.320 what happens
00:20:40.220 to any individual person
00:20:41.640 after death.
00:20:42.180 We can't know.
00:20:44.240 It would certainly
00:20:45.160 be wrong to declare
00:20:46.440 that every suicide
00:20:47.840 is now in hell.
00:20:50.840 Very few people
00:20:51.660 are tempted
00:20:52.140 to make such declarations
00:20:53.460 these days,
00:20:54.140 so it's not even
00:20:54.760 worth dwelling on.
00:20:55.660 But if anyone
00:20:56.740 were to say that,
00:20:57.500 it would be wrong to say
00:20:58.220 because you're not God.
00:20:59.900 You don't decide that.
00:21:01.320 You cannot assess
00:21:02.220 personal moral guilt.
00:21:03.800 You don't know
00:21:04.280 what's going on
00:21:04.900 inside somebody's heart
00:21:05.720 and inside their mind.
00:21:06.900 So that's why,
00:21:07.960 whether it's a suicide
00:21:08.640 or no matter how,
00:21:09.280 no matter how somebody dies
00:21:10.520 and no matter
00:21:12.340 under what circumstances
00:21:13.660 they die,
00:21:15.060 you cannot say
00:21:16.020 where they are
00:21:16.640 and what they're doing
00:21:17.220 right now.
00:21:18.380 But it's wrong to say
00:21:21.560 because it's up to God
00:21:24.340 to decide
00:21:24.980 and only God can judge
00:21:27.900 what's happening
00:21:28.980 inside somebody's heart
00:21:29.920 and soul.
00:21:31.540 Only God can judge.
00:21:32.800 You know,
00:21:32.920 that's what everyone says.
00:21:33.660 Only God can judge.
00:21:34.440 But what people really mean
00:21:36.580 when they say that
00:21:37.240 is that only God can judge
00:21:38.940 the guilt or innocence
00:21:40.640 of a person.
00:21:42.480 We can, however,
00:21:44.200 judge actions.
00:21:45.940 We have been given
00:21:47.100 that ability by God
00:21:48.480 and He wants us
00:21:49.300 to use that ability.
00:21:51.000 So we can judge
00:21:53.060 the action of suicide
00:21:55.100 as gravely wrong,
00:21:58.300 deeply disordered,
00:21:59.920 and thus not a means
00:22:01.820 to peace or freedom.
00:22:03.200 So it's wrong
00:22:05.980 to say
00:22:06.620 of an individual person
00:22:07.820 who died from suicide
00:22:08.940 that they're in hell.
00:22:10.120 That's very wrong to say.
00:22:11.760 But it is certainly wrong.
00:22:13.300 I would say
00:22:13.800 even more wrong
00:22:14.960 because of the scandal
00:22:15.980 that it causes
00:22:16.660 and what it may encourage
00:22:18.180 people to do.
00:22:19.600 I would say
00:22:20.340 it's even more wrong
00:22:21.280 to sit back
00:22:23.080 and just declare,
00:22:24.220 oh, they're at peace now.
00:22:25.560 They're happy now.
00:22:26.500 They're at peace.
00:22:27.220 They're not suffering anymore.
00:22:28.240 They're at peace.
00:22:30.220 The truth is
00:22:31.300 we don't know
00:22:32.680 where they are
00:22:33.560 or what's happening
00:22:35.620 to them
00:22:36.080 or how much peace
00:22:37.740 they have or don't have.
00:22:40.800 What we do know
00:22:42.160 is that the act of suicide
00:22:43.740 is extremely wrong
00:22:45.120 and extremely bad
00:22:46.840 and anyone
00:22:48.300 who is looking
00:22:48.980 for peace and freedom
00:22:50.380 should not look
00:22:51.980 for it that way.
00:22:54.580 That's what we know
00:22:55.560 and that's what we should say.
00:22:58.560 Now again,
00:22:59.540 think of the suicidal person.
00:23:02.680 Do you imagine
00:23:03.320 that you're helping him
00:23:04.760 by saying that
00:23:06.300 Anthony Bourdain
00:23:07.120 is at peace
00:23:07.960 and free right now?
00:23:11.140 If you mean
00:23:11.840 to help him
00:23:12.340 over the ledge,
00:23:13.160 well, then that's
00:23:13.700 a great way to do it.
00:23:14.480 But if you mean
00:23:15.040 to dissuade him
00:23:16.160 from self-annihilation,
00:23:18.120 you are doing it wrong
00:23:19.160 because very clearly,
00:23:21.040 clearly,
00:23:22.220 you are promoting
00:23:23.420 and glorifying suicide
00:23:25.520 and making it seem
00:23:26.780 appealing
00:23:27.660 when you speak about it
00:23:29.680 in those kinds of terms.
00:23:31.120 when a suicidal person
00:23:33.820 hears you say,
00:23:34.620 oh, this person
00:23:35.160 killed themselves,
00:23:35.780 they're at peace now,
00:23:36.820 clearly you are promoting it
00:23:38.760 to that person.
00:23:40.280 You are directly,
00:23:41.400 you are like
00:23:42.240 selling it to them.
00:23:44.860 So please stop saying that.
00:23:47.480 It's not true.
00:23:48.780 You don't,
00:23:49.620 you cannot speak
00:23:51.720 for the state
00:23:53.380 of somebody's soul
00:23:54.120 after death.
00:23:54.800 this is a wrong thing.
00:23:57.260 It's a bad thing.
00:24:00.300 It's a,
00:24:00.940 it's a,
00:24:01.520 it's,
00:24:01.720 it's,
00:24:01.980 it's not a good thing
00:24:03.240 to do,
00:24:03.960 which is why we try
00:24:04.740 to persuade people
00:24:05.640 not to do it.
00:24:07.440 And so we can't go around
00:24:08.800 saying that this is
00:24:09.660 how people find peace.
00:24:11.180 This is not
00:24:12.100 how you find peace.
00:24:14.500 One more point
00:24:15.360 about this.
00:24:15.880 we seem so concerned
00:24:19.780 with,
00:24:20.220 with protecting
00:24:21.380 the honor
00:24:22.160 and the good name
00:24:25.360 of those
00:24:26.520 who have already
00:24:27.220 died this way.
00:24:29.700 But
00:24:30.300 what about the families
00:24:32.560 that are left behind?
00:24:34.980 How would you like it
00:24:36.380 if somebody close
00:24:38.440 to you killed themselves,
00:24:39.580 say your spouse
00:24:40.460 or something,
00:24:41.020 and
00:24:41.300 you are left
00:24:43.220 justifiably angry,
00:24:44.520 justifiably
00:24:45.640 feeling abandoned.
00:24:49.320 But then everyone
00:24:50.100 comes up to you
00:24:50.840 and says of that person
00:24:52.020 who just left you,
00:24:53.320 oh,
00:24:53.500 he's at peace now.
00:24:55.160 He's,
00:24:55.720 he's free.
00:24:57.020 He had no choice,
00:24:58.020 you know,
00:24:58.340 he had no choice at all.
00:25:00.780 What they're telling you
00:25:02.120 is that your anger
00:25:03.680 is unfair
00:25:04.380 and that your feelings
00:25:06.280 are off base.
00:25:07.020 And in fact,
00:25:07.660 you are the selfish one,
00:25:09.220 apparently,
00:25:09.820 because you would prefer
00:25:11.020 if your loved one
00:25:11.940 didn't find his peace.
00:25:12.860 you're feeling
00:25:15.500 angry
00:25:16.000 and abandoned
00:25:16.900 and what you're being told
00:25:18.120 by all these people
00:25:18.680 is you have no right
00:25:19.860 to feel that way.
00:25:20.820 That's wrong.
00:25:22.360 What,
00:25:22.820 you didn't want this person
00:25:23.620 to find their peace?
00:25:25.900 Again,
00:25:26.380 I think this is just wrong.
00:25:28.720 I think it's
00:25:29.580 so wrong.
00:25:32.240 I think that
00:25:32.980 our rhetoric
00:25:34.440 around suicide
00:25:35.600 needs to be focused
00:25:37.260 on the living.
00:25:38.620 more than it's focused
00:25:41.720 on,
00:25:42.300 you know,
00:25:42.680 more than being focused
00:25:44.460 on trying
00:25:45.600 to justify
00:25:46.300 and so on
00:25:46.920 after the fact.
00:25:49.280 It needs to be focused
00:25:50.460 on promoting life
00:25:51.860 and on,
00:25:53.140 and,
00:25:53.400 and,
00:25:53.740 and on,
00:25:54.600 and on taking
00:25:55.120 into consideration
00:25:56.080 those who are alive.
00:25:58.880 Our job
00:25:59.860 after a suicide
00:26:00.800 is not
00:26:02.140 to
00:26:02.580 protect
00:26:04.080 the honor
00:26:05.720 and good name
00:26:06.360 of a person
00:26:06.920 who's already
00:26:07.880 committed suicide.
00:26:09.280 It's to say
00:26:10.020 the truth
00:26:10.740 for the sake
00:26:12.420 of those
00:26:12.860 who are contemplating it
00:26:14.020 and for the sake
00:26:15.080 of those
00:26:15.440 who have been
00:26:15.760 left behind
00:26:16.400 because of it.
00:26:18.440 That's what
00:26:19.000 we need to do.
00:26:20.960 Obviously,
00:26:21.540 I don't think
00:26:21.900 we should insult
00:26:22.740 or demean
00:26:23.680 a person
00:26:24.580 who kills
00:26:25.020 themselves.
00:26:25.840 Far from it.
00:26:27.820 But neither
00:26:28.660 should we say
00:26:29.420 untruths
00:26:30.580 and lies
00:26:31.520 for their sake.
00:26:32.580 it's not right.
00:26:35.200 It's dangerous.
00:26:37.020 It's hurting people.
00:26:40.600 We need to step back
00:26:42.000 and look at the situation
00:26:43.080 and see that,
00:26:44.660 yes,
00:26:45.280 our rhetoric
00:26:46.000 around suicide,
00:26:46.960 our discussion
00:26:47.560 around suicide
00:26:48.240 now is just so,
00:26:50.160 it's,
00:26:50.360 it's,
00:26:51.000 to call it
00:26:51.400 non-judgmental
00:26:52.380 is,
00:26:52.580 is,
00:26:53.220 is underselling
00:26:54.640 it completely.
00:26:56.780 Our discussion
00:26:57.740 of suicide
00:26:58.140 has gotten
00:26:58.480 to the point
00:26:58.920 where it,
00:26:59.700 it basically
00:27:00.880 promotes it
00:27:02.560 and,
00:27:02.920 and,
00:27:03.140 and outright
00:27:04.080 justifies it.
00:27:08.100 And what have we
00:27:08.960 seen happen
00:27:09.600 at the same time?
00:27:10.580 The suicide rate
00:27:11.460 just climbs
00:27:12.040 and climbs
00:27:12.600 and climbs.
00:27:13.340 I don't think
00:27:14.160 that's a coincidence.
00:27:18.140 So,
00:27:19.000 these are just
00:27:20.040 some things
00:27:20.440 to take in
00:27:20.980 consideration.
00:27:22.660 And again,
00:27:23.420 I will say
00:27:24.180 just in closing
00:27:25.140 that
00:27:25.420 if you're
00:27:27.040 struggling
00:27:27.380 with feelings
00:27:28.940 like this
00:27:29.440 and thoughts
00:27:30.120 like this,
00:27:31.280 make the choice
00:27:34.180 to talk to somebody
00:27:35.060 and to reach out
00:27:36.280 for help
00:27:36.600 because we're
00:27:37.520 not meant
00:27:38.040 to suffer
00:27:39.080 through
00:27:39.500 the darkest
00:27:41.680 moments
00:27:43.820 alone.
00:27:45.260 It's a very hard
00:27:46.160 thing to be alone
00:27:47.240 and to think
00:27:47.720 you're alone
00:27:48.100 and we don't
00:27:49.080 need to be.
00:27:49.660 You're not.
00:27:51.260 All right.
00:27:52.380 Thanks for watching,
00:27:53.220 everybody.
00:27:53.560 Thank you for listening.
00:27:54.540 Godspeed.
00:27:54.900 Godspeed.