The Matt Walsh Show - Ep. 47 - The Two Dangerous Mistakes We Make When We Discuss Suicide

00:00:00.000 So I want to say some things about suicide today.

00:00:03.480 It's a difficult subject, a painful subject, a personal subject.

00:00:08.360 Like so many millions of other people, this is something that I've not only heard about on the news,

00:00:14.640 but I've also encountered around me in my own life, in the lives of people close to me especially.

00:00:23.720 And I think that's probably the case for almost everybody that's watching this right now,

00:00:27.540 almost everybody, unfortunately, in the country is probably connected to this issue personally in some way.

00:00:35.600 You know, so that's what I want to talk about.

00:00:38.060 And the reason I want to tell you ahead of time that this is something that I've encountered

00:00:43.720 is so that you understand that, you know, I'm not just approaching this from a purely analytical kind of detached perspective,

00:00:52.560 but from a, from I hope, a rational and grounded perspective, but also a human one, a personal one.

00:01:01.600 Now, obviously, the reason that we're discussing this now is that two prominent people killed themselves last week,

00:01:07.260 Anthony Bourdain and Kate Spade.

00:01:10.360 And in the meantime, there have been news reports about the rapidly rising suicide rate across the country.

00:01:17.600 And it's rising nearly everywhere in every state.

00:01:21.820 So something is clearly happening in this country.

00:01:26.820 Something, something is going wrong.

00:01:29.360 I think that's obvious.

00:01:32.300 And when we see suicide, especially among the rich and famous and successful,

00:01:37.200 it makes us stop and kind of ponder for a minute because our assumptions are overturned

00:01:43.600 overturned and the facade kind of melts away and we're awakened to this, or reawakened, I guess,

00:01:50.240 to this stark reality where we realize that wealth and comfort and success are just frills.

00:01:57.360 They're, they're superficial.

00:01:58.800 They don't, they don't mean anything necessarily because a person can have all that and yet be deeply

00:02:05.340 in despair.

00:02:06.560 They can be hopeless and miserable and yet have all that.

00:02:10.180 So there has to be more to life, we realize.

00:02:16.100 We, you know, we, we often will look at rich and famous people and we'll say, man, they must

00:02:22.920 really love their lives, right?

00:02:25.660 We'll look at somebody who's like that and we'll say, man, he must really love his life.

00:02:31.300 But what do we mean when we say that?

00:02:34.300 What we really mean is that they must love the comforts and luxuries in their lives.

00:02:42.920 But to love comfort and luxury is not to love life.

00:02:47.860 To love life is to love life, regardless of the circumstances.

00:02:52.100 So if we can't love life in poverty, if we can't love it in suffering, if we can't love

00:02:59.520 it while deprived and wanting and hungry and all of that, then we don't love it.

00:03:05.040 And so for those of us who can't even imagine loving life under those circumstances, and our

00:03:11.940 affection for life is tied completely to either the material goods that we have or the material

00:03:19.720 goods that we dream of one day accumulating, for those of us in that, in that category,

00:03:24.920 we, we, we don't love life and we are either in despair or we're on the edge of despair.

00:03:31.040 And so I think that there are a great many people in this country who are either in despair

00:03:37.980 or are on the edge of it.

00:03:40.620 And our reaction to the suicides of famous, successful people just kind of speaks to this.

00:03:47.060 Yeah, of course, we should be sad.

00:03:50.220 Of course, it's, you know, of course, we're going to be surprised.

00:03:56.660 But the fact that we're shocked at the very idea that someone who is rich and famous might

00:04:02.960 kill themselves, that I think that reveals a something within ourselves that we have a,

00:04:09.940 a, a, a misunderstanding about life and about what's supposed to make people happy.

00:04:17.060 So even with all of these facts and these things tragically demonstrated to us by the suicides

00:04:24.820 of people like Anthony Bourdain and Kate Spade, I think we continue in the face of this issue,

00:04:29.900 we continue to miss the point of everything.

00:04:33.840 And we continue to perpetuate the problem by reacting to suicide in the worst possible ways

00:04:41.040 and saying the worst possible things about it.

00:04:44.420 And so I want to focus today, especially on two mistakes that I think we make when we talk about suicide.

00:04:52.180 And I think these are dangerous mistakes.

00:04:54.220 These are mistakes that are leading people down very dark paths.

00:04:57.840 So, um, the first mistake.

00:05:03.240 I've heard time and time again, especially after the suicide of somebody famous,

00:05:07.900 that suicide is not a choice.

00:05:13.380 This is what people will say.

00:05:15.440 They say, well, it's not a choice.

00:05:16.480 Nobody would choose that.

00:05:18.720 This, I think this is basically well-intentioned when people say this,

00:05:22.160 that they're trying to be generous to the departed.

00:05:25.300 They don't want to suggest that somebody would actually choose this,

00:05:29.740 because if they chose it, then that means that they also chose to leave their families

00:05:34.400 and to leave the whole world behind and to cause all this, uh, pain and suffering to those around them.

00:05:41.200 And, um, and we, we don't want to say that because if we say that,

00:05:46.700 then that means that we're saying that suicide is selfish.

00:05:49.080 And, um, which is, which is something that by the way, um, in the old days,

00:05:54.960 it was generally accepted by everyone that it's a selfish act,

00:05:58.040 but now you're not allowed to say that.

00:06:00.560 You don't, we don't want to say that because it's, it's very mean to say.

00:06:04.120 So instead we go all the way to the other extreme

00:06:07.260 and we completely exonerate the person who's committed suicide.

00:06:13.040 We completely not only exonerate them, but we, we, um, defend,

00:06:17.700 we, we, we practically defend what they did by saying that it wasn't a choice.

00:06:23.520 It was merely the result of depression and death is the result of depression.

00:06:28.640 Like death may be the result of pancreatic cancer.

00:06:31.540 We say, it's just something you, you can't help it.

00:06:34.320 You, you, you have, you play no part in it whatsoever.

00:06:36.820 It just happens to you.

00:06:38.860 That's all in the same way that if you have cancer

00:06:42.200 and your organs start shutting down and what have you, it's, it's,

00:06:45.300 it's exactly the same.

00:06:46.540 This is what I've been told.

00:06:47.380 It's exactly the same.

00:06:48.360 There's no difference.

00:06:49.580 And when a person commits suicide from depression,

00:06:51.640 they play no purposeful role in it at all.

00:06:55.260 So what a horrible, horrible thing to say.

00:07:03.720 It is absolutely the worst thing to say.

00:07:07.260 I mean, it really is horrible.

00:07:09.160 And if this is the kind of thing that you say in the wake of, uh, you know,

00:07:13.140 suicide being in the news, I ask you to stop saying that because it's wrong.

00:07:19.440 It's a lie.

00:07:21.060 And you're hurting people.

00:07:22.280 It is a horrible, terrible, awful thing to say.

00:07:28.660 To say that it's not a choice at all is a horrible thing.

00:07:34.260 It's not hard to see why it would be so horrible and dangerous.

00:07:38.760 Think about it for a second.

00:07:41.480 Imagine a suicidal person.

00:07:45.120 Imagine a suicidal person who is depressed, lost, and hopeless.

00:07:48.180 He already feels like he has no choice.

00:07:52.360 Like there is no other way.

00:07:53.860 He feels that way.

00:07:55.900 It doesn't mean that that's actually what's going on.

00:07:58.060 It doesn't mean that it's true.

00:08:00.080 But he feels that way.

00:08:03.280 And then you come along and confirm this notion.

00:08:09.100 You come along and say, you're right.

00:08:13.280 You have no choice.

00:08:14.400 Depression just may up and kill you one day against your will.

00:08:17.520 You have no choice in the matter.

00:08:19.040 There's nothing you can do of your own volition.

00:08:21.960 You have no choice.

00:08:26.340 What have you done?

00:08:27.980 In the interest of being fair and generous to the dead,

00:08:32.740 what have you done to the living?

00:08:34.740 Maybe we should focus more, when we talk about suicide,

00:08:39.380 we should focus more on helping the living rather than the dead.

00:08:45.060 Tragically, terribly, the people who are dead are now,

00:08:51.180 they're gone now.

00:08:56.400 But there are people, there's a lot of people that are still alive

00:08:58.880 who are struggling with this.

00:08:59.920 And so when we tell these lies about suicide for the sake of the dead,

00:09:05.680 we hurt the living.

00:09:08.460 And so what have you done to this depressed person

00:09:11.720 who's on the edge of being suicidal or is suicidal,

00:09:14.860 yet is still alive?

00:09:17.740 By telling him he has no choice, what have you done?

00:09:20.800 You've done the opposite of empower him.

00:09:22.820 You've done the opposite of encourage him.

00:09:26.720 You've just told him he has no power.

00:09:28.680 He has no free will.

00:09:30.740 You've just told him depression is a disease like cancer. 0.61

00:09:33.580 It's a cancer inside him.

00:09:35.300 There's nothing he can do about it.

00:09:37.980 At all.

00:09:39.840 It may kill him against his will.

00:09:44.060 Do you really not see the problem

00:09:46.000 with saying that to somebody?

00:09:49.520 Do you think when somebody is suicidal,

00:09:52.020 what they need to be told is they have no choice?

00:09:54.440 Now, let's imagine this a little bit more directly and explicitly.

00:10:01.220 Imagine that a man is standing at the top of a building on the ledge,

00:10:05.780 okay?

00:10:06.580 And you're standing there 30 feet away on the top of the building.

00:10:09.300 And he shouts to you and he says,

00:10:12.480 I have no choice.

00:10:13.320 I have to do it.

00:10:14.020 There's no other way.

00:10:15.480 What do you say in response?

00:10:19.300 Do you say,

00:10:20.260 you're right.

00:10:21.140 You have no choice.

00:10:22.920 You're not guilty.

00:10:24.080 This is not,

00:10:24.820 you should have no guilt.

00:10:26.200 This is not a choice.

00:10:27.580 You have no choice.

00:10:29.000 This is a disease doing this to you.

00:10:31.100 Nobody will judge you if you go ahead with it.

00:10:32.820 You have no choice.

00:10:35.500 Is that what you say?

00:10:37.600 Or do you say,

00:10:38.800 you do have a choice.

00:10:41.320 Yes, you do have a choice.

00:10:43.040 You have the power.

00:10:44.200 You are in control.

00:10:45.680 This is all you right now.

00:10:47.760 And you will decide what the next step is.

00:10:51.560 And there is a right and wrong choice here.

00:10:54.320 You have the power to make the right choice.

00:10:57.080 You do.

00:10:59.380 Now, I would suggest that if you,

00:11:01.160 if you said the first thing,

00:11:05.080 you have no choice.

00:11:06.920 To somebody on the edge of a building, 1.00

00:11:09.600 you are a monster. 1.00

00:11:13.620 You're just a monster. 1.00

00:11:17.180 You're like that. 1.00

00:11:17.980 What was the case of that girl 1.00

00:11:19.240 who encouraged,

00:11:23.700 basically encouraged her boyfriend

00:11:25.240 to commit suicide?

00:11:26.880 And while he was in the car

00:11:28.280 about to go through with the act,

00:11:29.740 she was text messaging him,

00:11:31.900 basically saying,

00:11:33.140 like, yeah, you know,

00:11:33.900 this is the only way.

00:11:34.820 Just go ahead and do it.

00:11:36.960 That's what it reminds me of.

00:11:39.100 If you would actually say that

00:11:40.380 to somebody on the ledge of a building.

00:11:41.900 But you would never say that.

00:11:43.820 You would never say that

00:11:44.800 to somebody on the edge of a building,

00:11:46.080 would you?

00:11:47.240 You would never say it

00:11:48.280 in that situation

00:11:49.080 to somebody on the physical ledge.

00:11:51.220 So why do so many people say it

00:11:54.000 to those who are almost on the ledge?

00:11:56.900 If you wouldn't say it to the person

00:11:59.320 while they're on the ledge

00:12:00.320 about to jump,

00:12:01.700 why would you say it

00:12:02.540 to all the people in our society

00:12:03.920 who are metaphorically right now

00:12:06.280 walking towards that ledge?

00:12:08.460 Why would you take power

00:12:10.440 and choice away from them

00:12:13.020 at the moment

00:12:14.940 when they most need it

00:12:16.480 and most need to realize

00:12:18.100 that they have it?

00:12:20.300 Now, of course,

00:12:21.240 it's true that a suicidal person

00:12:22.740 is compromised intellectually,

00:12:24.880 emotionally.

00:12:25.960 He's burdened.

00:12:27.060 He's in pain.

00:12:29.260 All of these things,

00:12:30.400 the emotional turmoil,

00:12:31.860 the despair,

00:12:32.760 the storm that's raging inside them,

00:12:34.840 these are all mitigating factors

00:12:36.660 when assessing the personal guilt

00:12:39.120 of the person

00:12:39.920 after the act.

00:12:42.720 But here's the thing.

00:12:44.720 We are not the ones

00:12:46.060 who assess the personal guilt

00:12:47.680 after the fact.

00:12:48.820 That's God.

00:12:49.960 That's not our job.

00:12:51.180 He's going to sort that out.

00:12:54.980 We can't.

00:12:55.600 We can't go anywhere

00:12:56.400 near that subject.

00:12:58.460 So it's true 0.67

00:12:59.340 that all these things,

00:13:00.560 what's going on

00:13:01.980 inside somebody's head

00:13:03.000 and heart

00:13:03.400 when they make this decision

00:13:04.940 or when they make any decision,

00:13:07.080 that speaks to their

00:13:09.040 personal moral guilt

00:13:10.660 and it can seriously,

00:13:12.560 it would seem,

00:13:13.640 mitigate that guilt.

00:13:14.940 But again,

00:13:15.680 that's not what we're talking about.

00:13:17.160 We're not assessing guilt.

00:13:18.500 You know,

00:13:20.320 we can't assign guilt.

00:13:23.460 Neither can we take guilt away.

00:13:25.920 We can't just sit back

00:13:27.200 and announce that,

00:13:28.160 oh, this person is

00:13:29.080 entirely guilty for this act.

00:13:31.560 And we also can't sit back

00:13:32.660 and say they're not guilty at all.

00:13:34.440 We can't say either one

00:13:35.780 of those things.

00:13:36.680 And to say either one

00:13:37.780 of those things

00:13:38.480 would be a terrible lie.

00:13:41.640 It would also be

00:13:42.240 to put ourselves

00:13:43.060 in the place of God,

00:13:44.040 which we can't do.

00:13:45.860 All we can do

00:13:48.500 is determine

00:13:49.480 what is literally

00:13:51.500 physically true.

00:13:54.460 Does a person

00:13:55.500 choose to act

00:13:56.780 a certain way

00:13:57.660 or not?

00:13:59.720 How much guilt

00:14:00.900 they personally

00:14:01.640 carry with them

00:14:02.540 for choosing it,

00:14:03.380 that's not,

00:14:03.880 we can't do that.

00:14:05.320 But did they choose it?

00:14:08.080 I mean,

00:14:09.400 you know,

00:14:10.480 I pick up this cup.

00:14:11.960 Am I choosing to do this?

00:14:13.040 You can't get inside

00:14:15.520 my mind

00:14:16.400 and tell me anything

00:14:17.960 about what's going on

00:14:18.680 inside my heart

00:14:19.280 or my mind.

00:14:19.980 But I certainly am

00:14:20.840 obviously choosing

00:14:21.480 to do this

00:14:21.980 because nobody else

00:14:22.940 is doing it.

00:14:23.600 I am physically doing it.

00:14:24.680 I am choosing to do it.

00:14:29.700 We have free will.

00:14:31.880 And a choice

00:14:33.020 that is made

00:14:34.200 under great duress

00:14:35.460 is still a choice.

00:14:37.960 a decision

00:14:40.540 made in despair

00:14:41.880 in pain

00:14:43.180 is still a decision.

00:14:46.940 If somebody

00:14:47.660 came into the room

00:14:48.520 right now

00:14:48.820 and put a gun 1.00

00:14:49.320 to my head 1.00

00:14:49.880 and said,

00:14:50.820 Matt,

00:14:51.100 pick up that cup.

00:14:53.500 You know something?

00:14:54.500 I still have a choice.

00:14:56.620 I could

00:14:57.420 refuse to pick it up.

00:14:59.040 Now,

00:14:59.500 the consequences

00:15:00.160 would be very severe.

00:15:01.380 I'd probably be killed.

00:15:02.300 but I could choose

00:15:03.840 not to do it.

00:15:05.580 So even with a literal

00:15:06.960 gun to my head,

00:15:08.940 my free will 0.96

00:15:09.980 and my capacity

00:15:10.980 to choose

00:15:11.800 are still intact.

00:15:13.720 Nobody can take that away.

00:15:16.340 I still have it.

00:15:19.200 To say that

00:15:20.100 suicide is not a choice

00:15:23.620 is either to say

00:15:24.560 that every person

00:15:25.840 who commits suicide 0.53

00:15:26.760 is clinically insane

00:15:29.260 or

00:15:31.800 which would be 0.96

00:15:32.360 a ridiculous claim 0.89

00:15:33.200 obviously 0.98

00:15:33.580 or

00:15:34.440 it's to kind of

00:15:35.220 compartmentalize

00:15:36.600 a person's mind

00:15:37.720 and to say

00:15:38.560 okay,

00:15:38.880 well here is you

00:15:39.780 on one hand

00:15:40.540 inside your mind

00:15:41.700 and then over here

00:15:42.900 this is the part

00:15:43.560 of your brain 1.00

00:15:44.080 that commits suicide 0.98

00:15:46.140 and that part

00:15:46.860 is not you.

00:15:48.340 That's not you.

00:15:49.280 This is you.

00:15:49.900 That's not.

00:15:52.140 What does that mean?

00:15:53.400 If that's not you,

00:15:54.260 who is it?

00:15:55.440 Of course it's you.

00:15:56.180 They're both you.

00:15:56.660 You are a complete

00:16:00.200 whole person.

00:16:01.800 You can't be divided up.

00:16:03.780 You are a complete

00:16:04.720 whole immutable

00:16:05.700 human being.

00:16:07.900 You can't be divided

00:16:09.400 into sections.

00:16:11.740 It's only you.

00:16:13.500 You are the only one

00:16:14.640 who is you.

00:16:16.840 The fact that you're

00:16:17.920 under duress

00:16:18.540 when you make

00:16:19.000 a wrong choice

00:16:19.700 does not mean

00:16:20.340 that it wasn't a choice.

00:16:23.820 Every destructive choice

00:16:25.900 is made

00:16:28.300 under either

00:16:29.260 some kind of duress

00:16:30.380 or in response

00:16:32.320 to a compulsion

00:16:33.240 or a temptation.

00:16:34.620 Every destructive choice

00:16:35.800 is made that way.

00:16:37.660 And the really

00:16:38.300 destructive choices,

00:16:39.420 the really bad choices

00:16:40.880 are always made

00:16:42.420 under severe duress

00:16:43.760 or in response

00:16:44.760 to severe compulsion.

00:16:46.380 So think about

00:16:46.920 the worst

00:16:47.740 crimes

00:16:50.000 that you can imagine.

00:16:50.860 Think about

00:16:51.120 people that are in jail

00:16:51.960 for the worst

00:16:52.420 kinds of crimes.

00:16:54.440 Rape, 0.89

00:16:54.800 murder, 0.98

00:16:55.580 so on.

00:16:56.880 Nobody does those things

00:16:58.680 while in a calm

00:16:59.700 state of mind.

00:17:01.160 They're always

00:17:02.060 in some kind

00:17:03.080 of turmoil

00:17:03.720 internally.

00:17:05.040 There's always

00:17:05.700 a compulsion.

00:17:07.660 Of course there is.

00:17:09.500 So if suicide

00:17:10.340 is not a choice,

00:17:12.980 then no bad thing

00:17:14.680 is a choice.

00:17:15.900 If we only have

00:17:17.200 free will

00:17:18.060 when we're also

00:17:19.260 free from compulsion

00:17:20.600 and emotional stress,

00:17:22.140 then nobody

00:17:23.620 has free will.

00:17:25.080 And if that's

00:17:25.620 what you believe,

00:17:26.420 that nobody

00:17:26.900 has free will,

00:17:27.740 then so be it.

00:17:28.680 But please,

00:17:29.420 then you have

00:17:29.820 to explain,

00:17:30.960 if you don't believe

00:17:31.520 that anyone

00:17:31.840 has free will,

00:17:32.780 well then what

00:17:33.120 are you doing

00:17:33.500 passing out

00:17:34.040 the suicide hotline?

00:17:35.580 What are you

00:17:35.920 doing saying,

00:17:36.640 you know,

00:17:36.820 if you're depressed,

00:17:37.500 if you feel suicidal,

00:17:38.460 talk to somebody?

00:17:39.300 What are you doing

00:17:39.900 passing out hotlines

00:17:40.860 and giving tips

00:17:41.600 to depressed people

00:17:42.480 if you don't think

00:17:43.560 they have a choice?

00:17:44.960 If you don't think

00:17:45.580 they can choose

00:17:46.840 to act upon

00:17:48.400 the advice

00:17:49.460 you are giving them,

00:17:51.040 then why are you

00:17:52.400 giving it?

00:17:54.560 The fact that

00:17:55.620 you're giving advice

00:17:56.520 means that you know

00:17:57.920 it's a choice,

00:17:58.960 that they have a choice.

00:18:01.000 And so you're trying

00:18:01.900 to influence them

00:18:02.980 to make the right choice,

00:18:04.180 which is a wonderful

00:18:05.020 thing to do.

00:18:07.020 All I'm saying

00:18:08.020 is don't confuse

00:18:09.120 the situation

00:18:09.940 by saying that

00:18:11.280 on one hand

00:18:12.060 and on the other hand

00:18:13.020 saying,

00:18:13.580 well,

00:18:13.800 they don't have a choice.

00:18:16.880 It is a choice

00:18:18.020 in a literal sense.

00:18:19.980 It is a choice.

00:18:22.280 And so we ask ourselves,

00:18:24.080 what is true?

00:18:26.600 Is it a choice

00:18:27.460 or is it not?

00:18:28.240 Well, it's true 0.82

00:18:28.840 that it is a choice.

00:18:30.260 We can also ask ourselves,

00:18:31.840 what is the most

00:18:32.480 helpful thing to say

00:18:34.180 to someone

00:18:35.060 who's contemplating suicide?

00:18:37.140 Is it helpful

00:18:38.020 to tell them

00:18:38.660 that they have no choice?

00:18:40.780 Or is it helpful

00:18:41.580 to tell them

00:18:42.060 that they do?

00:18:43.360 I think clearly

00:18:44.220 it's most helpful

00:18:45.060 to tell them

00:18:45.540 that they do.

00:18:46.140 This is not about

00:18:48.640 heaping guilt.

00:18:49.980 It's not about telling,

00:18:50.980 you know,

00:18:51.200 it's not about

00:18:51.940 anything like that.

00:18:53.220 It's about empowering.

00:18:55.800 It's about telling the truth

00:18:57.060 and it's about empowering.

00:19:01.040 And if a person

00:19:01.860 is contemplating this act

00:19:03.700 and they think about

00:19:05.540 the fact that

00:19:06.240 they have a choice

00:19:06.860 and that they have the power,

00:19:08.420 and which isn't to say

00:19:09.080 that this is something

00:19:09.700 they should do

00:19:10.160 on their own.

00:19:11.880 No,

00:19:12.320 because if you're

00:19:13.280 in that state of mind,

00:19:14.300 you need to reach out

00:19:15.180 and talk to somebody,

00:19:16.660 get some help.

00:19:17.700 I agree with that.

00:19:19.560 Don't go through it

00:19:20.360 on your own.

00:19:21.640 The fact that you have

00:19:22.460 a choice doesn't mean

00:19:23.420 that it's something

00:19:23.920 you have to do

00:19:24.420 on your own

00:19:25.020 or should do

00:19:25.540 on your own.

00:19:26.000 You shouldn't.

00:19:28.120 When we get to that point,

00:19:29.180 we have to reach out

00:19:29.920 for help,

00:19:30.320 but that's not

00:19:31.500 the same thing

00:19:32.580 as saying

00:19:33.600 you have no choice

00:19:34.520 because, again,

00:19:35.060 if you have no choice,

00:19:35.820 then you can't even

00:19:36.360 reach out to anybody

00:19:37.220 necessarily.

00:19:39.620 You can't choose

00:19:40.600 to do that.

00:19:42.900 Okay,

00:19:43.100 so the second mistake

00:19:43.880 people make

00:19:45.180 I have seen

00:19:46.360 many people say,

00:19:48.400 again,

00:19:48.760 this is basically

00:19:49.380 well-intentioned,

00:19:50.860 but harmful 1.00

00:19:51.520 and foolish. 0.98

00:19:53.060 Many people have said 0.99

00:19:53.920 that Anthony Bourdain

00:19:56.400 and Kate Spade

00:19:57.740 are finally at peace.

00:20:02.200 This is what I've seen online.

00:20:04.220 They're finally at peace.

00:20:06.420 And this brings to mind

00:20:07.840 that tweet

00:20:08.560 that the Academy sent

00:20:09.920 after Robin Williams

00:20:11.540 committed suicide.

00:20:13.060 Maybe you remember.

00:20:13.680 The tweet was

00:20:15.040 a picture of

00:20:15.900 Aladdin hugging

00:20:16.820 the genie,

00:20:17.700 the genie,

00:20:18.160 which, of course,

00:20:18.500 was voiced by

00:20:19.160 Robin Williams.

00:20:21.460 And the caption said,

00:20:23.440 genie,

00:20:24.140 you're free.

00:20:26.300 Now,

00:20:27.100 these are nice sentiments.

00:20:30.560 They are pleasant

00:20:31.800 sentiments.

00:20:33.660 They're also horrible.

00:20:35.640 Now, again,

00:20:36.520 we're not God.

00:20:37.900 We cannot know

00:20:39.320 what happens

00:20:40.220 to any individual person

00:20:41.640 after death.

00:20:42.180 We can't know.

00:20:44.240 It would certainly

00:20:45.160 be wrong to declare

00:20:46.440 that every suicide

00:20:47.840 is now in hell. 0.78

00:20:50.840 Very few people

00:20:51.660 are tempted

00:20:52.140 to make such declarations

00:20:53.460 these days,

00:20:54.140 so it's not even

00:20:54.760 worth dwelling on.

00:20:55.660 But if anyone

00:20:56.740 were to say that,

00:20:57.500 it would be wrong to say

00:20:58.220 because you're not God.

00:20:59.900 You don't decide that.

00:21:01.320 You cannot assess

00:21:02.220 personal moral guilt.

00:21:03.800 You don't know

00:21:04.280 what's going on

00:21:04.900 inside somebody's heart

00:21:05.720 and inside their mind.

00:21:06.900 So that's why,

00:21:07.960 whether it's a suicide

00:21:08.640 or no matter how,

00:21:09.280 no matter how somebody dies

00:21:10.520 and no matter

00:21:12.340 under what circumstances

00:21:13.660 they die,

00:21:15.060 you cannot say

00:21:16.020 where they are

00:21:16.640 and what they're doing

00:21:17.220 right now.

00:21:18.380 But it's wrong to say

00:21:21.560 because it's up to God

00:21:24.340 to decide

00:21:24.980 and only God can judge

00:21:27.900 what's happening

00:21:28.980 inside somebody's heart

00:21:29.920 and soul.

00:21:31.540 Only God can judge.

00:21:32.800 You know,

00:21:32.920 that's what everyone says.

00:21:33.660 Only God can judge.

00:21:34.440 But what people really mean

00:21:36.580 when they say that

00:21:37.240 is that only God can judge

00:21:38.940 the guilt or innocence

00:21:40.640 of a person.

00:21:42.480 We can, however,

00:21:44.200 judge actions.

00:21:45.940 We have been given

00:21:47.100 that ability by God

00:21:48.480 and He wants us

00:21:49.300 to use that ability.

00:21:51.000 So we can judge

00:21:53.060 the action of suicide

00:21:55.100 as gravely wrong,

00:21:58.300 deeply disordered,

00:21:59.920 and thus not a means

00:22:01.820 to peace or freedom.

00:22:03.200 So it's wrong

00:22:05.980 to say

00:22:06.620 of an individual person

00:22:07.820 who died from suicide

00:22:08.940 that they're in hell. 0.75

00:22:10.120 That's very wrong to say.

00:22:11.760 But it is certainly wrong.

00:22:13.300 I would say

00:22:13.800 even more wrong

00:22:14.960 because of the scandal

00:22:15.980 that it causes

00:22:16.660 and what it may encourage

00:22:18.180 people to do.

00:22:19.600 I would say

00:22:20.340 it's even more wrong

00:22:21.280 to sit back

00:22:23.080 and just declare,

00:22:24.220 oh, they're at peace now.

00:22:25.560 They're happy now.

00:22:26.500 They're at peace.

00:22:27.220 They're not suffering anymore.

00:22:28.240 They're at peace.

00:22:30.220 The truth is

00:22:31.300 we don't know

00:22:32.680 where they are

00:22:33.560 or what's happening

00:22:35.620 to them

00:22:36.080 or how much peace

00:22:37.740 they have or don't have.

00:22:40.800 What we do know

00:22:42.160 is that the act of suicide

00:22:43.740 is extremely wrong

00:22:45.120 and extremely bad

00:22:46.840 and anyone

00:22:48.300 who is looking

00:22:48.980 for peace and freedom

00:22:50.380 should not look

00:22:51.980 for it that way.

00:22:54.580 That's what we know

00:22:55.560 and that's what we should say.

00:22:58.560 Now again,

00:22:59.540 think of the suicidal person.

00:23:02.680 Do you imagine

00:23:03.320 that you're helping him

00:23:04.760 by saying that

00:23:06.300 Anthony Bourdain

00:23:07.120 is at peace

00:23:07.960 and free right now?

00:23:11.140 If you mean

00:23:11.840 to help him

00:23:12.340 over the ledge,

00:23:13.160 well, then that's

00:23:13.700 a great way to do it.

00:23:14.480 But if you mean

00:23:15.040 to dissuade him

00:23:16.160 from self-annihilation,

00:23:18.120 you are doing it wrong

00:23:19.160 because very clearly,

00:23:21.040 clearly,

00:23:22.220 you are promoting

00:23:23.420 and glorifying suicide

00:23:25.520 and making it seem

00:23:26.780 appealing

00:23:27.660 when you speak about it

00:23:29.680 in those kinds of terms.

00:23:31.120 when a suicidal person

00:23:33.820 hears you say,

00:23:34.620 oh, this person

00:23:35.160 killed themselves,

00:23:35.780 they're at peace now,

00:23:36.820 clearly you are promoting it

00:23:38.760 to that person.

00:23:40.280 You are directly,

00:23:41.400 you are like

00:23:42.240 selling it to them.

00:23:44.860 So please stop saying that.

00:23:47.480 It's not true.

00:23:48.780 You don't,

00:23:49.620 you cannot speak

00:23:51.720 for the state

00:23:53.380 of somebody's soul

00:23:54.120 after death.

00:23:54.800 this is a wrong thing.

00:23:57.260 It's a bad thing.

00:24:00.300 It's a,

00:24:00.940 it's a,

00:24:01.520 it's,

00:24:01.720 it's,

00:24:01.980 it's not a good thing

00:24:03.240 to do,

00:24:03.960 which is why we try

00:24:04.740 to persuade people

00:24:05.640 not to do it.

00:24:07.440 And so we can't go around

00:24:08.800 saying that this is

00:24:09.660 how people find peace.

00:24:11.180 This is not

00:24:12.100 how you find peace.

00:24:14.500 One more point

00:24:15.360 about this.

00:24:15.880 we seem so concerned

00:24:19.780 with,

00:24:20.220 with protecting

00:24:21.380 the honor

00:24:22.160 and the good name

00:24:25.360 of those

00:24:26.520 who have already

00:24:27.220 died this way.

00:24:29.700 But

00:24:30.300 what about the families

00:24:32.560 that are left behind?

00:24:34.980 How would you like it

00:24:36.380 if somebody close 0.99

00:24:38.440 to you killed themselves, 0.92

00:24:39.580 say your spouse 0.99

00:24:40.460 or something,

00:24:41.020 and

00:24:41.300 you are left

00:24:43.220 justifiably angry,

00:24:44.520 justifiably

00:24:45.640 feeling abandoned.

00:24:49.320 But then everyone

00:24:50.100 comes up to you

00:24:50.840 and says of that person

00:24:52.020 who just left you,

00:24:53.320 oh,

00:24:53.500 he's at peace now.

00:24:55.160 He's,

00:24:55.720 he's free.

00:24:57.020 He had no choice,

00:24:58.020 you know,

00:24:58.340 he had no choice at all.

00:25:00.780 What they're telling you

00:25:02.120 is that your anger

00:25:03.680 is unfair

00:25:04.380 and that your feelings

00:25:06.280 are off base.

00:25:07.020 And in fact, 0.98

00:25:07.660 you are the selfish one, 0.96

00:25:09.220 apparently,

00:25:09.820 because you would prefer

00:25:11.020 if your loved one

00:25:11.940 didn't find his peace.

00:25:12.860 you're feeling

00:25:15.500 angry

00:25:16.000 and abandoned

00:25:16.900 and what you're being told

00:25:18.120 by all these people

00:25:18.680 is you have no right

00:25:19.860 to feel that way.

00:25:20.820 That's wrong.

00:25:22.360 What,

00:25:22.820 you didn't want this person

00:25:23.620 to find their peace?

00:25:25.900 Again,

00:25:26.380 I think this is just wrong.

00:25:28.720 I think it's

00:25:29.580 so wrong.

00:25:32.240 I think that

00:25:32.980 our rhetoric

00:25:34.440 around suicide

00:25:35.600 needs to be focused

00:25:37.260 on the living.

00:25:38.620 more than it's focused

00:25:41.720 on,

00:25:42.300 you know,

00:25:42.680 more than being focused

00:25:44.460 on trying

00:25:45.600 to justify

00:25:46.300 and so on

00:25:46.920 after the fact.

00:25:49.280 It needs to be focused

00:25:50.460 on promoting life

00:25:51.860 and on,

00:25:53.140 and,

00:25:53.400 and,

00:25:53.740 and on,

00:25:54.600 and on taking

00:25:55.120 into consideration

00:25:56.080 those who are alive.

00:25:58.880 Our job

00:25:59.860 after a suicide

00:26:00.800 is not

00:26:02.140 to

00:26:02.580 protect

00:26:04.080 the honor

00:26:05.720 and good name

00:26:06.360 of a person

00:26:06.920 who's already

00:26:07.880 committed suicide.

00:26:09.280 It's to say

00:26:10.020 the truth

00:26:10.740 for the sake

00:26:12.420 of those

00:26:12.860 who are contemplating it

00:26:14.020 and for the sake

00:26:15.080 of those

00:26:15.440 who have been

00:26:15.760 left behind

00:26:16.400 because of it.

00:26:18.440 That's what

00:26:19.000 we need to do.

00:26:20.960 Obviously,

00:26:21.540 I don't think

00:26:21.900 we should insult

00:26:22.740 or demean

00:26:23.680 a person

00:26:24.580 who kills 0.92

00:26:25.020 themselves.

00:26:25.840 Far from it.

00:26:27.820 But neither

00:26:28.660 should we say

00:26:29.420 untruths

00:26:30.580 and lies

00:26:31.520 for their sake.

00:26:32.580 it's not right.

00:26:35.200 It's dangerous.

00:26:37.020 It's hurting people.

00:26:40.600 We need to step back

00:26:42.000 and look at the situation

00:26:43.080 and see that,

00:26:44.660 yes,

00:26:45.280 our rhetoric

00:26:46.000 around suicide,

00:26:46.960 our discussion

00:26:47.560 around suicide

00:26:48.240 now is just so,

00:26:50.160 it's,

00:26:50.360 it's,

00:26:51.000 to call it

00:26:51.400 non-judgmental

00:26:52.380 is,

00:26:52.580 is,

00:26:53.220 is underselling

00:26:54.640 it completely.

00:26:56.780 Our discussion

00:26:57.740 of suicide

00:26:58.140 has gotten

00:26:58.480 to the point

00:26:58.920 where it,

00:26:59.700 it basically

00:27:00.880 promotes it

00:27:02.560 and,

00:27:02.920 and,

00:27:03.140 and outright

00:27:04.080 justifies it.

00:27:08.100 And what have we

00:27:08.960 seen happen

00:27:09.600 at the same time?

00:27:10.580 The suicide rate

00:27:11.460 just climbs

00:27:12.040 and climbs

00:27:12.600 and climbs.

00:27:13.340 I don't think

00:27:14.160 that's a coincidence.

00:27:18.140 So,

00:27:19.000 these are just

00:27:20.040 some things

00:27:20.440 to take in

00:27:20.980 consideration.

00:27:22.660 And again,

00:27:23.420 I will say

00:27:24.180 just in closing

00:27:25.140 that

00:27:25.420 if you're

00:27:27.040 struggling

00:27:27.380 with feelings

00:27:28.940 like this

00:27:29.440 and thoughts

00:27:30.120 like this,

00:27:31.280 make the choice

00:27:34.180 to talk to somebody

00:27:35.060 and to reach out

00:27:36.280 for help

00:27:36.600 because we're

00:27:37.520 not meant

00:27:38.040 to suffer

00:27:39.080 through

00:27:39.500 the darkest

00:27:41.680 moments

00:27:43.820 alone.

00:27:45.260 It's a very hard

00:27:46.160 thing to be alone

00:27:47.240 and to think

00:27:47.720 you're alone

00:27:48.100 and we don't

00:27:49.080 need to be.

00:27:49.660 You're not.

00:27:51.260 All right.

00:27:52.380 Thanks for watching,

00:27:53.220 everybody.

00:27:53.560 Thank you for listening.

00:27:54.540 Godspeed.

00:27:54.900 Godspeed.

The Matt Walsh Show - June 11, 2018

Ep. 47 - The Two Dangerous Mistakes We Make When We Discuss Suicide

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