The Matt Walsh Show - Former Teammate Of Lia Thomas Unveils Herself

00:00:00.000 Actually, one of the girls, you know, was very upset.

00:00:03.320 She went crying to the athletic department,

00:00:04.940 and I don't know what they said to her,

00:00:06.340 but she then was completely on board

00:00:08.360 and thought Leo's swimming was like this magical, beautiful thing.

00:00:11.440 Like, is there something wrong with me for thinking that this is wrong?

00:00:14.860 Whatever, it worked.

00:00:16.540 The university wanted us to be quiet,

00:00:19.260 and they did it in a very effective way.

00:00:21.300 Like, there was something going on in that athletic department

00:00:24.440 that wanted to keep us quiet.

00:00:26.460 And I was like, this is getting scary.

00:00:30.000 So, Paula, last time I spoke to you,

00:00:32.860 we were making what is a woman.

00:00:34.400 You looked a little different on camera anyway,

00:00:36.720 very shadowy and dark, and now we can see who you are.

00:00:40.900 So what made you decide to speak out publicly?

00:00:45.480 So the biggest thing for me has just been,

00:00:47.360 I thought maybe if I waited a year or however much time

00:00:50.420 that these feelings I felt on fairness,

00:00:53.620 the this is not the truth, this is not just, would go away.

00:00:57.420 And they never really did.

00:00:58.780 And I just spent this last year just kind of living vicariously through,

00:01:03.060 oh, Riley's going and doing these great things.

00:01:05.320 She's going to accomplish all these things we need to have done.

00:01:08.140 And she's made great strides,

00:01:10.440 but I am still feeling so passionately about this that I want to join her.

00:01:15.320 And I know that the more voices we have,

00:01:17.280 and I'm hoping even more people will speak out,

00:01:19.320 the more voices we have, the more powerful this will be.

00:01:21.600 So that's really where I am.

00:01:23.080 I'm ready now.

00:01:23.880 I think, you know, this is a really big cause

00:01:27.980 and one of the biggest things I can be a part of.

00:01:29.640 And it's not just about me.

00:01:30.740 It's not just about Riley.

00:01:32.020 It's about fighting for women and girls across the country.

00:01:35.260 And I think that's who I'm here for.

00:01:37.880 So that's kind of the end.

00:01:39.740 We started at the end.

00:01:41.040 We'll get back to that,

00:01:42.320 but let's go all the way back to the beginning.

00:01:43.840 I'm curious, when did you first find out

00:01:47.980 about just the issue of that males might compete against you as a female athlete?

00:01:56.140 Do you remember when you first found out about that?

00:01:58.360 It was the fall of 2019,

00:02:00.380 at the very beginning of my sophomore year of college.

00:02:03.000 We had a team meeting.

00:02:04.440 Actually, the meeting was led by a member of the men's team at the time,

00:02:07.500 Will Thomas,

00:02:08.180 who informed the women's team that Will Thomas,

00:02:11.440 that they would be transitioning to the women's team.

00:02:14.660 This will not be happening this year

00:02:15.960 because NCAA rules say I have to take HRT for a year.

00:02:20.440 I didn't know what any of that was or what any of that meant.

00:02:23.280 But we were told the next season

00:02:25.060 that Will Thomas would be joining the women's team.

00:02:28.080 And again, at this time, still Will Thomas.

00:02:30.200 So Leah was not to be born yet at this point.

00:02:33.560 So we were first announced that and I kind of felt shocked.

00:02:36.620 I felt a little uncomfortable.

00:02:38.580 But everyone around me looked really happy.

00:02:40.680 and excited for this member of the men's team

00:02:45.540 to be living their true self.

00:02:47.940 Were those looks genuine?

00:02:50.040 Or were people,

00:02:51.400 did they feel like they had to pretend that they were excited?

00:02:53.700 Honestly, I can't speak for everyone.

00:02:56.080 But in my own experience,

00:02:58.260 I think it was definitely just a lot of shock.

00:03:00.520 I think that was the biggest thing is,

00:03:02.140 you know, you kind of like smile when you're uncomfortable.

00:03:05.100 That's how I would have read it.

00:03:06.400 But again, I can't speak for every single person on my team.

00:03:08.900 But that's how I interpreted it.

00:03:11.000 And it was just a situation where we're like,

00:03:12.660 OK, well, we're going to have to navigate this for the next year.

00:03:15.100 At least we have a year to think about it.

00:03:16.960 And you said that Will Thomas, soon to be Leah Thomas,

00:03:20.820 led this meeting where this was all explained to you?

00:03:24.040 It was interesting because actually,

00:03:25.600 the women in the men's team at Penn is very,

00:03:28.500 it's a combined program.

00:03:29.540 So most things we do is with the men's team.

00:03:32.040 The women were called into the team room

00:03:33.400 and we had the meeting that I sat in on

00:03:35.700 where our coach said,

00:03:37.400 OK, everyone sit down.

00:03:38.780 OK, I'm going to pass this over to Will.

00:03:40.440 This is Will's meeting.

00:03:42.180 So this is when you were first told

00:03:44.500 about this male who's going to be competing against you

00:03:48.000 by the male himself.

00:03:49.680 So there wasn't a meeting before this

00:03:51.120 where you guys had a chance to ask questions

00:03:53.560 without having the guy himself right there.

00:03:56.040 You didn't have that opportunity.

00:03:57.100 No, this was just, it happened like it was September of 2019.

00:04:01.360 It was the beginning of the season.

00:04:02.660 Like we were still in preseason, actually.

00:04:04.040 I don't think the official season had even started yet.

00:04:06.820 And it just announced to us just,

00:04:08.600 and then it was really quick.

00:04:09.800 It was less than 10 minutes.

00:04:10.980 And then our coach said, OK, everybody get in the pool.

00:04:13.540 Practice is starting now.

00:04:14.780 Was this the first time you were introduced

00:04:16.060 to the concept of males competing against females

00:04:19.420 in women's sports?

00:04:21.160 Or were you aware of it as sort of an issue?

00:04:23.680 I had only heard of cases of,

00:04:27.340 there was a famous case in the swimming world

00:04:29.560 of that swimmer at Harvard who transitioned

00:04:32.220 from the women's to the men's team.

00:04:34.260 So I'd only heard of it that way.

00:04:35.740 Honestly, I never even really,

00:04:37.680 I knew I guess it would have been a possibility

00:04:39.240 if women were going to be transitioning into men

00:04:41.980 and competing with men.

00:04:43.060 That of course the other way would have been a possibility

00:04:45.720 like in back of my mind.

00:04:46.900 But I never thought that that would be my reality.

00:04:49.940 I just didn't think it was an issue.

00:04:52.480 Did you know Will Thomas before this announcement?

00:04:55.660 Yeah, I mean, not well, not very well,

00:04:57.860 but acquaintance with for sure.

00:05:00.100 During that period, how would you describe him?

00:05:02.680 I thought Will was very quiet,

00:05:05.340 didn't really speak much to people

00:05:06.900 that weren't close friends.

00:05:08.520 We didn't really interact very much.

00:05:10.300 Definitely not someone I would expect

00:05:11.760 to be part of such a public scandal,

00:05:14.680 if that's the best way to put it.

00:05:16.620 Just I've always thought of someone who was very like,

00:05:18.940 keep to themselves.

00:05:21.120 Was it the same way when he came over to the women's?

00:05:24.020 No.

00:05:25.500 I think, I'm not sure how much of it was just,

00:05:28.120 you know, change of personality or whatever happened,

00:05:30.960 or how much of it was because

00:05:32.740 there was so much media attention

00:05:33.960 and you kind of have to start like acting that way

00:05:36.240 and just more talkative, more vocal.

00:05:39.560 Walk me through in the early weeks and months

00:05:43.860 actually competing against or having a male on your team.

00:05:47.360 What was that like?

00:05:47.760 First, we were kind of told that maybe

00:05:50.640 prior to this happening,

00:05:53.200 again, when this was first announced,

00:05:54.320 we were told maybe Leah might be

00:05:55.680 might be changing in a different locker room

00:05:59.980 or might continue to stay in the men's locker room.

00:06:02.320 It was all kind of up in the air.

00:06:04.360 And then I saw the locker room chart

00:06:06.440 and saw that Leah definitely had a locker

00:06:08.400 in the women's room.

00:06:09.520 So that was confirmed that

00:06:11.340 that was definitely going to be happening.

00:06:12.260 And there was never really

00:06:12.860 further discussion about that.

00:06:14.220 So I said, oh, okay, I guess this is the reality.

00:06:17.400 To actually have a male in the women's locker room,

00:06:21.340 how did you feel about that?

00:06:22.460 How did the other teammates feel about it?

00:06:24.240 It was definitely uncomfortable.

00:06:26.040 I did notice a few girls going,

00:06:27.820 there's a few bathroom stalls in the bathroom,

00:06:29.840 and I did notice some girls

00:06:30.860 changing the bathroom stalls for practice,

00:06:34.900 which is never really,

00:06:36.040 I've never really seen that before.

00:06:36.900 For me personally,

00:06:40.360 the biggest thing was just

00:06:42.840 when you're changing

00:06:43.960 and there's all these people

00:06:46.080 talking in the background,

00:06:47.640 you hear all these women's voices,

00:06:48.940 and then all of a sudden

00:06:49.440 you hear a man's voice.

00:06:50.560 I would always kind of jump a little bit

00:06:52.120 thinking, oh, maybe a work,

00:06:56.040 an employee of the building

00:06:57.180 got into the locker room

00:06:58.300 or was taking out the trash

00:06:59.820 or whatever it might be.

00:07:01.260 And then I would jump and realize,

00:07:03.340 oh, actually that's a person

00:07:04.500 on my team speaking.

00:07:06.620 It's actually just someone

00:07:08.080 who sounds very masculine.

00:07:09.720 Did he seem to be aware

00:07:10.920 that it might make people

00:07:12.280 uncomfortable that he's in there?

00:07:13.760 No, I wouldn't say so.

00:07:15.760 It was never really a conversation.

00:07:17.820 I will say that I personally

00:07:21.000 just tried to avoid Leah changing,

00:07:24.160 like tried to avoid it.

00:07:25.100 I tried to change as fast as possible

00:07:26.400 just to deal with it

00:07:27.420 the least amount that I could.

00:07:29.120 And then when it came

00:07:29.680 to the actual swimming part of it.

00:07:32.760 Yeah, so Leah actually doesn't swim

00:07:34.020 the same events as me.

00:07:34.820 So I never had to directly

00:07:35.740 compete against Leah,

00:07:36.640 which again, that's where Riley

00:07:38.420 is more adequate to speak on this

00:07:40.660 because she actually lost out

00:07:42.280 on her places, that trophy, all that.

00:07:45.700 For me, it was more watching

00:07:47.260 my teammates who did swim those events

00:07:48.860 and what it was like for them

00:07:50.500 to lose out on the spot,

00:07:51.880 on the relays,

00:07:52.780 to lose out on being chosen

00:07:54.660 to be taken as meets, right?

00:07:56.060 Like swimming is one of those sports

00:07:57.600 where it's roster limited

00:07:58.500 and I think most sports are that way

00:07:59.980 where not everyone can go to every meet.

00:08:02.260 So there were girls

00:08:03.580 that were left off the bus

00:08:05.220 that would have been there

00:08:08.000 if Leah hadn't been on the team.

00:08:10.320 I mean, what are those girls?

00:08:11.260 Do they say anything?

00:08:12.980 Do they register any kind of protest

00:08:15.640 against that?

00:08:16.600 Yeah, actually one of the girls,

00:08:18.220 you know, very upset.

00:08:20.140 She went crying to the athletic department

00:08:21.560 and something in that conversation.

00:08:23.620 I don't know what they said to her,

00:08:25.120 but she then was completely on board

00:08:27.160 and thought Leah swimming

00:08:28.160 was like this magical, beautiful thing.

00:08:30.240 Really?

00:08:30.840 Yeah.

00:08:32.000 It was anyone who-

00:08:33.180 She was crying about it.

00:08:35.120 I mean, rightly so.

00:08:36.420 Yes.

00:08:37.320 She talks to, you said,

00:08:38.420 the athletic department.

00:08:39.720 She made a meeting.

00:08:40.780 She was like,

00:08:41.180 I'm going to speak to the athletic department

00:08:42.440 about this.

00:08:43.120 And I said, go you.

00:08:44.700 And she came back from the meeting

00:08:46.020 and suddenly it was the most magical,

00:08:48.400 beautiful thing that this was like,

00:08:49.780 we're part of this groundbreaking team.

00:08:51.720 There was something going on

00:08:53.040 in that athletic department

00:08:54.580 that wanted to keep us quiet.

00:08:56.480 And I was like, this is getting scary.

00:08:58.340 Did you ever find out

00:09:00.000 what was said to this?

00:09:01.780 Not directly,

00:09:02.840 but it was two days later

00:09:03.800 that they had that formal meeting with us.

00:09:06.060 And notably,

00:09:06.700 Leah was excluded from this meeting.

00:09:08.620 They said,

00:09:09.340 don't talk to the media.

00:09:11.020 You will regret it.

00:09:13.140 Is that a direct quote?

00:09:13.980 You will regret it?

00:09:15.140 Yep.

00:09:16.320 Another thing they said is,

00:09:17.900 Leah swimming is a non-negotiable.

00:09:20.180 And then they provided us

00:09:21.600 with counseling services

00:09:22.500 to help us be okay with,

00:09:24.260 to help us be okay with Leah swimming.

00:09:26.840 I think this is pretty,

00:09:28.440 you know,

00:09:28.760 it's pretty startling actually.

00:09:30.940 Oh, it's incredibly startling.

00:09:32.780 Being on a team,

00:09:33.940 you want to be supportive, right?

00:09:35.300 Your job as a teammate

00:09:36.720 is to support your teammates.

00:09:37.800 And that's kind of the biggest thing

00:09:38.940 people had issues with saying is,

00:09:40.700 you know,

00:09:41.100 even if you don't agree

00:09:42.200 with Leah swimming

00:09:43.620 or on the women's team

00:09:44.640 or whatever,

00:09:45.240 you have to be supportive

00:09:46.560 and that's what teammates do.

00:09:47.980 But I think back about,

00:09:49.640 you know,

00:09:50.000 all those scandals,

00:09:51.340 like what about Lance Armstrong

00:09:53.100 and the cycling teams, right?

00:09:54.760 Do you think Lance Armstrong's teammates

00:09:56.040 were supposed to be supportive

00:09:56.960 of doping, right?

00:09:58.720 So it's,

00:09:59.300 there comes a fine line.

00:10:00.600 Yes, you support your teammates,

00:10:01.900 but if you see something unjust

00:10:03.280 and something wrong,

00:10:04.020 you can't be quiet about it.

00:10:05.820 And that's,

00:10:06.260 I think that's what was missing.

00:10:07.540 It's,

00:10:08.080 of course I support my teammates.

00:10:09.360 I support them in all things.

00:10:10.900 But if I see something unjust,

00:10:13.100 I need to speak about it.

00:10:14.720 What,

00:10:15.060 what if anything,

00:10:15.720 were you guys saying to each other

00:10:17.980 about all this?

00:10:19.620 Were you commiserating

00:10:21.040 about how outrageous

00:10:21.940 and unfair it is?

00:10:22.740 Or was it a feeling

00:10:23.440 that you can't even talk about it

00:10:24.640 to each other

00:10:25.120 for fear of punishment?

00:10:27.260 So prior to that meeting,

00:10:28.700 I would have one-on-one conversations

00:10:30.320 with pretty much everyone on the team.

00:10:32.580 Say,

00:10:32.800 hey,

00:10:33.080 like,

00:10:33.340 you know,

00:10:33.960 I don't think this is right.

00:10:35.280 Yeah,

00:10:35.680 I don't think it's right either.

00:10:38.000 Another teammate actually said to me,

00:10:39.580 I think Leah's record

00:10:41.100 should have an asterisk.

00:10:42.860 Or someone said,

00:10:44.160 I think Leah should compete exhibition.

00:10:46.220 Or,

00:10:47.060 you know,

00:10:47.320 I don't think this is going to go on

00:10:48.580 for much longer.

00:10:49.420 Like,

00:10:49.520 someone's going to step in

00:10:50.460 and end this.

00:10:51.660 And I had these conversations

00:10:52.460 with so many of my teammates.

00:10:54.200 I would say

00:10:54.620 most people on the team

00:10:56.300 had this opinion.

00:10:58.020 And then after that meeting,

00:10:59.460 they really scared us.

00:11:00.520 It was scary.

00:11:01.340 And I,

00:11:01.680 and I was petrified.

00:11:03.740 I went home that night

00:11:04.740 and I called my brother

00:11:05.540 on the phone

00:11:06.060 and I said,

00:11:07.080 can I even talk about this with you?

00:11:08.920 Like,

00:11:09.140 am I,

00:11:09.420 is there something wrong with me

00:11:10.660 for thinking that this is wrong?

00:11:12.260 Whatever,

00:11:12.800 like,

00:11:12.960 it worked.

00:11:14.020 The university

00:11:14.840 wanted us to be quiet

00:11:16.980 and they did it

00:11:17.740 in a very effective way.

00:11:18.900 Like,

00:11:19.420 they continued to just tell us

00:11:20.520 that our opinions were wrong

00:11:21.500 and that if we had an issue with it,

00:11:23.100 we were the problem.

00:11:24.000 And it's frightening

00:11:24.680 and your future job is on the line

00:11:26.960 and everything else

00:11:28.020 you want to accomplish.

00:11:29.040 So,

00:11:29.400 of course,

00:11:29.740 it worked.

00:11:30.140 And then after that point,

00:11:31.140 no one would talk about it anymore.

00:11:32.900 Like,

00:11:33.060 if they effectively,

00:11:34.180 you know,

00:11:35.020 silenced us even within

00:11:36.020 talking to each other.

00:11:37.400 You began to doubt

00:11:38.460 your own instincts

00:11:39.340 about whether or not

00:11:40.180 this is,

00:11:40.680 this is wrong.

00:11:41.880 Yeah,

00:11:42.380 I,

00:11:42.600 I did actually.

00:11:44.360 Um,

00:11:45.020 I'm pretty religious actually.

00:11:46.500 I'm Catholic

00:11:46.940 and I actually went

00:11:48.480 to my Catholic leader

00:11:49.440 and I was,

00:11:50.740 you know,

00:11:51.280 am I wrong on this?

00:11:52.860 And at the time,

00:11:54.080 it was,

00:11:55.020 it was really hard

00:11:55.960 for people who were involved

00:11:57.140 in the Catholic community.

00:11:58.340 We,

00:11:58.720 we want to love

00:11:59.660 and we want to be there

00:12:00.700 and I want to understand

00:12:01.680 that,

00:12:02.180 you know,

00:12:03.220 someone is in pain,

00:12:04.480 right?

00:12:04.660 Like,

00:12:04.920 Leah Thomas is,

00:12:05.880 is in pain.

00:12:06.920 Clearly,

00:12:07.200 if this has happened,

00:12:08.200 there's pain behind that.

00:12:09.720 And as a Catholic,

00:12:10.660 you really want

00:12:11.520 to support that

00:12:13.300 and you want to empathize

00:12:14.260 with that experience.

00:12:15.000 But also,

00:12:15.980 how can you support

00:12:16.700 something that's so unjust?

00:12:18.700 And so,

00:12:19.180 I really struggled with that

00:12:20.460 and it,

00:12:20.940 it was actually very hard

00:12:22.320 for me in my religion too

00:12:23.500 where I was feeling like

00:12:24.460 I can't feel hate

00:12:25.920 and I don't feel hate

00:12:26.920 towards Leah.

00:12:27.420 I want to make that very clear.

00:12:28.880 It was really hard

00:12:29.680 to,

00:12:29.900 to manage that

00:12:31.200 and to feel the way

00:12:32.680 that I felt.

00:12:33.780 Um,

00:12:34.100 and it was,

00:12:34.660 and you know,

00:12:35.120 even the Catholic leaders

00:12:36.320 weren't really equipped

00:12:37.460 to even,

00:12:38.120 uh,

00:12:38.900 entertain these conversations

00:12:40.160 because they had never

00:12:40.920 really seen anything

00:12:41.640 like it either.

00:12:42.600 What did they say to you?

00:12:43.740 The church,

00:12:44.660 leaders?

00:12:45.920 Well,

00:12:46.160 he just had said like,

00:12:47.420 you know,

00:12:47.920 it's obviously unjust

00:12:49.180 and just to continue

00:12:50.160 with prayer,

00:12:50.740 um,

00:12:51.680 and just,

00:12:52.280 you know,

00:12:52.480 trust that God will

00:12:53.700 guide in the right way.

00:12:55.100 I mean,

00:12:55.360 again,

00:12:55.700 nothing super intense

00:12:57.820 and I think,

00:12:58.520 uh,

00:12:58.700 as time grew on

00:12:59.740 and the injustice continued,

00:13:00.900 I think the church is,

00:13:02.100 at least the local church

00:13:03.060 at campus,

00:13:03.900 campus's stance

00:13:04.680 did grow,

00:13:05.180 grow a little stronger

00:13:05.920 that this is unjust

00:13:06.980 and we do need

00:13:07.500 to speak about it

00:13:08.140 but at the very beginning

00:13:08.900 it was,

00:13:09.540 oh,

00:13:09.860 I don't know

00:13:10.220 if we should take

00:13:10.800 a public stance on this

00:13:11.820 or I don't know

00:13:12.220 if you should speak

00:13:12.980 about this publicly.

00:13:13.740 I think you should just

00:13:14.560 work with God directly

00:13:16.180 and not speak out.

00:13:17.480 I actually did have hope

00:13:18.760 through the entire season

00:13:19.700 that maybe somebody

00:13:20.460 would step in

00:13:21.260 and not allow this to happen.

00:13:22.940 Like,

00:13:23.140 at each stage

00:13:23.860 of each big meet,

00:13:24.760 like before Ivies happened,

00:13:26.440 I said maybe

00:13:27.040 the Ivy League will step in

00:13:28.400 and they didn't.

00:13:30.020 Maybe the NCAA will step in

00:13:31.560 before the NCAA championship

00:13:32.760 and they didn't

00:13:33.420 and part of it was

00:13:34.840 I constantly kept waiting

00:13:36.000 for these institutions

00:13:36.820 to do the right thing

00:13:37.760 and I,

00:13:38.540 honestly looking back,

00:13:39.600 I don't know why

00:13:40.060 I ever even trusted

00:13:40.860 that they might

00:13:41.460 but I did have hope

00:13:43.300 and that's kind of

00:13:44.060 what kept me through

00:13:45.080 that I was hoping

00:13:45.840 that somebody would see

00:13:46.720 what was correct

00:13:47.420 but it just never happened

00:13:48.480 and that's part of the reason

00:13:49.560 why I'm here speaking out

00:13:50.600 is that,

00:13:51.540 you know,

00:13:51.740 these institutions failed us

00:13:53.100 and I think somebody

00:13:54.160 needs to do something about it.

00:13:55.800 What was the environment

00:13:56.380 on the campus

00:13:58.800 even outside of the team

00:14:00.280 because this,

00:14:00.980 Leah Thomas at this point

00:14:02.080 had become

00:14:02.700 a well-known figure

00:14:04.900 and controversial

00:14:07.040 to say the least.

00:14:08.700 It was definitely

00:14:09.620 a conversation on campus.

00:14:10.860 I think most people

00:14:11.420 on campus

00:14:11.980 that found out

00:14:12.860 I was on the swim team

00:14:13.920 would want to talk to me about it.

00:14:15.400 I would say most people

00:14:16.280 on campus

00:14:16.860 probably agreed

00:14:18.080 that I was wrong

00:14:18.840 but again,

00:14:20.300 voicing that is scary

00:14:21.760 especially in,

00:14:22.820 you know,

00:14:23.240 universities are

00:14:24.080 very woke

00:14:26.260 for lack of a better word

00:14:28.020 and they want to push

00:14:29.800 this liberal agenda

00:14:30.600 and they want to push

00:14:31.700 you know,

00:14:33.100 all of those types

00:14:34.040 of ideals on us

00:14:34.980 so that was definitely

00:14:36.640 really hard

00:14:38.480 to even like

00:14:38.980 find people

00:14:39.440 to have conversations with

00:14:40.320 but I would let them

00:14:41.160 come to me

00:14:41.600 like if people came to me

00:14:42.500 I would openly discuss.

00:14:44.460 What do you say to

00:14:45.540 as I'm sure

00:14:46.660 you've heard many times

00:14:47.660 the people

00:14:49.160 on the other side

00:14:49.740 of this issue

00:14:50.180 who would say that

00:14:51.460 we have to let people

00:14:52.800 compete against

00:14:53.600 whatever group

00:14:54.380 they identify with

00:14:55.200 and if we don't

00:14:55.900 it's going to make them

00:14:56.840 feel excluded

00:14:58.340 or what have you?

00:14:59.680 Yeah, I understand that

00:15:00.740 and actually

00:15:01.260 I have a really easy solution

00:15:02.440 that would work great

00:15:03.800 if everyone can implement it.

00:15:05.140 I think there should be

00:15:06.000 women's sports

00:15:06.700 meaning people

00:15:07.520 who are born female

00:15:08.440 and there should be

00:15:10.200 another category

00:15:11.000 formerly known as

00:15:12.400 the men's team

00:15:12.900 called open.

00:15:14.660 Why don't we let

00:15:15.280 everyone compete

00:15:16.100 with the men?

00:15:17.440 And I think

00:15:18.040 I'm sure maybe some men

00:15:19.120 would be unhappy with that

00:15:20.180 but the thing is

00:15:20.840 people have been talking

00:15:21.520 about making this new

00:15:22.360 non-binary or trans category

00:15:23.900 and that is just

00:15:25.200 another group

00:15:25.700 where men are going

00:15:26.300 to always win.

00:15:27.380 For example

00:15:27.780 if you look at

00:15:28.720 qualifications for the

00:15:29.940 Boston Marathon

00:15:30.560 which is like

00:15:31.120 the greatest marathon

00:15:32.440 everyone wants to

00:15:33.580 qualify for that

00:15:34.220 they're now like

00:15:34.740 a non-binary standard

00:15:35.880 which guess what

00:15:36.880 is the same time standards

00:15:38.200 as the women.

00:15:39.480 So you're giving men

00:15:40.400 another category

00:15:41.320 to then win.

00:15:42.760 And let's just say

00:15:43.480 that there's prize money

00:15:44.300 associated with these

00:15:44.980 three categories

00:15:45.760 men are always going to win

00:15:46.700 that middle category too.

00:15:48.420 So I don't think

00:15:49.420 that that necessarily

00:15:50.200 is a correct solution

00:15:50.940 and again I could be wrong

00:15:52.180 that's just my personal opinion

00:15:53.380 I'm sure there's

00:15:54.600 much more qualified people

00:15:56.100 to make this decision

00:15:56.860 than myself

00:15:57.360 but I think that

00:15:58.100 that would work

00:15:58.780 in the sense that

00:15:59.960 if they're saying

00:16:00.720 that they can't compete

00:16:01.400 in a category

00:16:01.900 that aligns with their identity

00:16:03.440 or whatever that means

00:16:04.340 that would work.

00:16:05.960 Those that want to

00:16:06.640 open up women's sports

00:16:07.400 are not

00:16:07.960 they're not accepting

00:16:09.020 of any kind of compromise.

00:16:10.560 No they're not

00:16:11.160 and that's what

00:16:12.100 that's what's so scary

00:16:13.020 to me about this whole thing

00:16:14.480 and there's no discussion here

00:16:16.380 and I think this

00:16:17.600 the thing that was

00:16:18.720 most important to me

00:16:19.680 is I think

00:16:20.200 going into college

00:16:21.280 I was always under the belief

00:16:23.140 that colleges were

00:16:23.860 a place of free speech.

00:16:25.680 Right?

00:16:26.100 Candace actually spoke

00:16:27.300 Candace Owens actually spoke

00:16:28.520 at the University of Pennsylvania

00:16:29.660 my freshman year

00:16:30.360 and I said that

00:16:30.900 great this is what

00:16:31.780 this is about.

00:16:32.680 We can have conservative

00:16:33.600 voices on campus.

00:16:34.520 We can have liberal

00:16:35.180 voices on campus

00:16:36.000 and I was so excited

00:16:37.340 to have all these

00:16:37.900 opportunities

00:16:38.760 to listen to opinions

00:16:40.640 from both sides.

00:16:41.360 Like that is what

00:16:42.160 I went to college for

00:16:43.600 and that's what I thought

00:16:44.500 college education was.

00:16:46.380 And then as these things

00:16:47.620 started going on

00:16:48.240 I realized that

00:16:49.380 they don't have that.

00:16:50.340 Their agenda

00:16:50.820 is to have everyone

00:16:52.080 believe what they

00:16:53.520 want them to believe

00:16:54.440 and you know

00:16:56.220 it really became

00:16:57.280 so clear to me

00:16:58.300 my senior year

00:16:59.360 when all this

00:16:59.760 started happening

00:17:00.300 that that is actually

00:17:01.340 the case

00:17:01.860 that universities

00:17:02.820 want their agenda

00:17:04.680 pushed into everyone's mind

00:17:06.500 and they don't care

00:17:07.100 if you have a different opinion

00:17:08.020 because they don't want

00:17:08.720 you to have that.

00:17:09.560 Tell me about this

00:17:10.340 you wrote an editorial

00:17:11.880 for the student newspaper

00:17:12.800 right?

00:17:13.040 Yeah so I was actually

00:17:14.360 approached by a friend

00:17:15.640 I knew who worked

00:17:16.660 on the Daily Pennsylvanian

00:17:18.700 which is our school

00:17:19.300 run newspaper

00:17:19.980 and she said

00:17:21.120 we're publishing

00:17:21.960 a bunch of articles

00:17:22.800 that are pro-LIA

00:17:23.700 we want one person

00:17:25.160 to have a dissenting viewpoint

00:17:27.080 and I was like

00:17:27.900 oh awesome right

00:17:29.200 this is exactly

00:17:29.860 what I want.

00:17:30.680 Again I have no issue

00:17:31.700 with these people

00:17:32.160 who say trans women

00:17:34.280 are women

00:17:34.680 or whatever right

00:17:35.440 that's their opinion

00:17:36.540 I can agree

00:17:37.500 or disagree with that

00:17:38.340 but that's their own opinion

00:17:39.340 and so I said

00:17:40.580 okay that's great

00:17:41.560 and so

00:17:42.140 then they kind of said

00:17:44.160 I could do it anonymously

00:17:45.040 which I was like

00:17:46.140 okay awesome

00:17:47.040 so we did that

00:17:48.400 and then they kind of

00:17:50.000 gave me a list of rules

00:17:50.920 they said okay

00:17:51.540 here are the following rules

00:17:52.580 you have to follow

00:17:53.220 so I write this article

00:17:54.060 and I try to like

00:17:54.960 be as respectful as possible

00:17:56.500 and I keep going through

00:17:57.180 all these edits

00:17:57.720 and edits

00:17:58.080 and they're like deleting

00:17:58.880 What were the rules?

00:18:00.320 The rules said

00:18:01.060 I couldn't refer to

00:18:01.800 transgenderism as a choice

00:18:03.200 I said okay

00:18:04.380 I mean I wasn't really

00:18:05.060 going to touch on that

00:18:05.940 I have to refer to everyone

00:18:07.800 with their preferred pronouns

00:18:09.200 See how can you possibly

00:18:11.020 your whole argument

00:18:12.760 is that

00:18:13.960 someone like Leah Thomas

00:18:15.200 is a man

00:18:15.680 and should be competing

00:18:16.260 against women

00:18:16.780 and they're telling you

00:18:18.060 that in order to even

00:18:19.200 have the conversation

00:18:19.940 you have to agree with them

00:18:21.440 to begin with

00:18:22.540 I honestly ignored

00:18:23.740 the whole thing

00:18:24.280 and just talked about biology

00:18:25.280 it really was more

00:18:26.640 I barely even really touched

00:18:27.780 on Leah in the article

00:18:28.540 to be honest

00:18:29.060 and I think you guys

00:18:29.920 have a copy

00:18:30.380 we can go over it

00:18:31.480 at some point

00:18:31.920 but you know

00:18:33.040 it was really more

00:18:34.300 about the biology

00:18:35.340 and the statistics

00:18:36.240 of how the NCAA

00:18:37.180 came up with their policy

00:18:38.520 for transgender athletes

00:18:41.460 and how it was

00:18:42.240 deeply flawed

00:18:42.960 I mean I studied engineering

00:18:44.280 so I understand

00:18:45.520 you know

00:18:45.940 doing studies

00:18:47.400 and having hypotheses

00:18:48.360 and scientific aspects

00:18:49.820 and I think a lot of that

00:18:51.060 is missing

00:18:51.440 and one of the things

00:18:52.100 I noticed

00:18:52.500 is that testosterone

00:18:53.920 is the only thing mentioned

00:18:55.000 there are so many

00:18:56.140 other hormones

00:18:56.740 in the human body

00:18:57.340 why would

00:18:57.860 one singular

00:18:59.360 hormone level

00:19:00.380 be the determination

00:19:01.440 for someone to compete

00:19:02.820 on one side or the other

00:19:03.760 like

00:19:04.220 what?

00:19:05.220 and I was like

00:19:06.220 does anybody

00:19:06.600 anyone even

00:19:07.520 part of this

00:19:08.080 even have

00:19:08.700 a scientific background

00:19:10.260 does any of you guys

00:19:11.280 even take a biology class

00:19:13.040 I learned that

00:19:13.440 in my freshman year

00:19:14.140 of high school

00:19:14.540 in a biology class

00:19:15.740 and I think

00:19:16.280 most of people

00:19:17.280 in America

00:19:17.700 probably had to take bio

00:19:18.880 their freshman year

00:19:19.640 of high school too

00:19:20.340 so

00:19:21.200 it was

00:19:21.920 that was just

00:19:23.160 and it was crazy

00:19:23.960 and I would write

00:19:24.600 these lines

00:19:25.100 and they would just

00:19:25.540 cut them out

00:19:26.120 because they'd say

00:19:26.440 oh this line is

00:19:27.140 like I said

00:19:27.620 at the very end

00:19:28.360 I said like

00:19:28.840 if we continue

00:19:29.360 to let this happen

00:19:30.020 we're going to

00:19:30.400 discourage

00:19:31.040 female athletes

00:19:32.160 from competing

00:19:32.780 permanently

00:19:33.660 and they said

00:19:34.160 that's too harsh

00:19:34.980 but then eventually

00:19:36.020 it was published

00:19:36.600 in some form

00:19:38.100 yeah

00:19:38.460 and they retracted it

00:19:39.420 45 minutes later

00:19:40.980 but luckily

00:19:41.680 I did actually get

00:19:42.760 a saved copy

00:19:43.600 of it published

00:19:44.680 did they ever

00:19:45.660 follow up with you

00:19:47.180 about what happened?

00:19:48.060 nope

00:19:48.240 I went out of my way

00:19:49.720 to get in contact

00:19:50.420 with the guy

00:19:51.200 who

00:19:52.280 the editor I was working with

00:19:53.960 on the school newspaper

00:19:54.920 to ask him

00:19:55.740 what happened

00:19:56.380 and he dodged my calls

00:19:57.420 for about a week

00:19:58.100 and finally

00:19:59.880 I got a hold of him

00:20:01.000 and he just said

00:20:03.480 sorry

00:20:04.020 I think half the staff

00:20:05.080 was threatening to quit

00:20:06.100 over this being up

00:20:08.140 we don't withhold

00:20:09.300 transphobic beliefs

00:20:10.540 in the Daily Pennsylvanian

00:20:11.880 some blah blah blah

00:20:13.300 I was kind of like

00:20:13.860 I was kind of angry

00:20:14.720 I was like an angry phone call

00:20:15.740 I was like screaming

00:20:16.220 at this guy on the phone

00:20:17.160 like I mean

00:20:18.260 because I did work hard on it

00:20:19.840 like and it is

00:20:20.780 I'm not

00:20:21.280 I'm not like a natural born writer

00:20:22.780 like writing a piece

00:20:24.060 I'm sure you've

00:20:24.820 you've written a lot

00:20:25.640 I'm sure you know

00:20:26.280 it's like

00:20:27.400 and they asked me to do it

00:20:29.120 they wanted

00:20:29.620 someone on the staff

00:20:30.660 wanted a dissenting viewpoint

00:20:31.920 and then it was just like

00:20:33.760 oh goodbye

00:20:34.360 and I was like

00:20:34.880 well are we going to make

00:20:35.780 more edits

00:20:36.240 so we can make it

00:20:36.980 like acceptable

00:20:37.980 again at this point

00:20:39.320 so many edits had been made

00:20:41.160 it was barely even

00:20:41.760 my piece anymore

00:20:42.440 but I was still hopeful

00:20:44.160 oh maybe we can have

00:20:45.020 something out there

00:20:45.820 that's saying

00:20:46.300 maybe this isn't fair

00:20:47.260 and they were like

00:20:48.560 no we're done

00:20:49.480 and I never really talked

00:20:51.080 to any of them ever again

00:20:51.900 I mean I've been

00:20:53.300 as you know

00:20:54.400 talking about this issue

00:20:55.040 for a long time

00:20:55.640 but I still

00:20:56.340 when I hear stories like this

00:20:57.680 it still is somewhat

00:20:58.680 but somehow

00:21:00.300 I find myself

00:21:01.320 being surprised

00:21:02.280 by how crazy it is

00:21:03.260 I'm surprised every day

00:21:04.700 I think

00:21:05.700 my biggest thing

00:21:06.900 is I'm

00:21:07.580 I'm a really strong believer

00:21:08.700 in free speech

00:21:09.440 my personal history

00:21:10.920 is like

00:21:11.360 I'm half Tony's

00:21:12.580 and my grandfather

00:21:13.180 was actually the person

00:21:14.160 who fought

00:21:15.040 for free speech

00:21:16.040 in Taiwan

00:21:16.480 he worked with people

00:21:17.660 on both sides

00:21:18.400 both parties

00:21:19.160 and he was the biggest believer

00:21:21.760 in free speech

00:21:22.320 he had friends

00:21:23.140 that he would argue with

00:21:24.540 until they were red

00:21:25.360 in the face

00:21:25.960 because they disagreed

00:21:27.460 so much

00:21:28.000 but they were there

00:21:28.680 to have that discussion

00:21:29.660 and this entire country

00:21:31.760 and many other countries

00:21:33.300 have been built

00:21:33.860 on having discussions

00:21:35.140 where people disagree

00:21:35.960 right

00:21:36.220 the constitution

00:21:36.960 was written

00:21:38.220 over discussions

00:21:39.060 and compromises

00:21:39.820 and everything

00:21:41.280 this country

00:21:41.940 is built off of

00:21:42.680 is arguments

00:21:44.360 and discussions

00:21:45.160 and free speech

00:21:46.140 and I feel like

00:21:47.940 we don't have that anymore

00:21:48.900 and that's what's

00:21:49.440 so scary to me

00:21:50.260 about this

00:21:50.680 and obviously

00:21:51.200 it's unfair

00:21:51.820 for men

00:21:53.040 to compete as women

00:21:54.200 but it's also

00:21:55.980 even scarier

00:21:57.440 that we can't even

00:21:58.360 have a discussion

00:21:59.040 about it

00:21:59.620 it seems increasingly

00:22:00.960 over the last year

00:22:01.600 you mentioned Riley Gaines

00:22:02.560 and others

00:22:03.300 have come out

00:22:03.980 speaking out against this

00:22:06.180 now you're coming out

00:22:07.420 what do you make

00:22:09.760 of the

00:22:10.240 what seems to be

00:22:12.000 the momentum

00:22:12.820 gathering behind

00:22:13.620 the pushback

00:22:14.300 against all this

00:22:15.480 what do you make of that

00:22:16.180 I think it's definitely

00:22:17.340 a positive sign

00:22:18.220 right

00:22:18.640 obviously

00:22:19.680 the second Riley

00:22:20.860 started speaking out

00:22:21.440 about it

00:22:21.720 I immediately

00:22:22.200 got in touch with her

00:22:23.280 and she became

00:22:23.860 a friend of mine

00:22:24.600 I think there are

00:22:26.460 people that are willing

00:22:27.280 to speak about it

00:22:28.060 I don't think

00:22:28.720 there's enough

00:22:29.280 I still think

00:22:30.320 that there's people

00:22:30.760 who are never

00:22:31.220 going to change

00:22:31.600 their mind about it

00:22:32.320 which is always

00:22:32.800 going to be the case

00:22:33.420 which I personally

00:22:34.400 find unfortunate

00:22:35.280 but you know

00:22:36.900 we can only

00:22:37.720 convince you

00:22:38.240 we can convince

00:22:38.880 I do think

00:22:39.760 there's hope

00:22:40.280 I really do

00:22:41.080 I mean

00:22:41.360 maybe I'm a hopeful

00:22:42.280 person

00:22:42.660 I've kind of

00:22:43.100 touched at every

00:22:43.660 single aspect

00:22:44.180 of this journey

00:22:44.780 I've had hope

00:22:45.940 but I do see

00:22:46.960 turning points

00:22:47.680 I see certain states

00:22:48.860 writing into law

00:22:50.520 fairness acts

00:22:51.840 and I also

00:22:52.500 swimming

00:22:53.380 FINA

00:22:53.920 the governing body

00:22:54.800 of swimming

00:22:55.180 has put into law

00:22:56.700 that you have to

00:22:58.140 transition before

00:22:58.800 the age of 12

00:22:59.420 which no one

00:23:00.140 should be allowed

00:23:00.520 to do

00:23:00.960 in my opinion

00:23:01.920 to compete

00:23:02.960 at the Olympic level

00:23:03.860 so obviously

00:23:05.040 there are

00:23:05.640 governing bodies

00:23:06.480 that are taking

00:23:06.880 this seriously

00:23:07.440 but I don't think

00:23:08.980 we're done

00:23:09.400 and I'm here to fight

00:23:10.480 until we have

00:23:11.020 every single state

00:23:11.840 in the United States

00:23:12.800 and every country

00:23:13.560 in the world

00:23:13.920 that also believes this

00:23:14.900 what do you think

00:23:15.800 needs to be done

00:23:16.480 what does fighting back

00:23:17.840 mean

00:23:18.140 I think we need

00:23:19.220 to pass laws

00:23:20.180 I think that's

00:23:20.940 the only way

00:23:21.680 when in courts

00:23:23.320 in the court cases

00:23:24.240 I know there's

00:23:24.660 some notable ones

00:23:25.500 the track case

00:23:26.840 in Connecticut

00:23:27.340 I know that

00:23:28.520 they have a hearing

00:23:29.040 coming up for that

00:23:29.980 and I think we need

00:23:31.980 to just keep

00:23:33.140 telling our stories

00:23:34.040 and I need to

00:23:35.120 you know

00:23:35.480 encourage other people

00:23:36.640 to also speak

00:23:37.360 their own right

00:23:37.880 there's so many

00:23:38.720 instances of this

00:23:39.420 happening

00:23:39.780 that we might

00:23:40.500 not even know about

00:23:41.220 right

00:23:41.480 so many different

00:23:42.360 states

00:23:42.740 there's so many

00:23:43.220 different sports

00:23:44.220 leagues

00:23:44.640 and just encouraging

00:23:46.680 the people who

00:23:47.480 are going through

00:23:48.120 this to use

00:23:48.820 their voice

00:23:49.400 and to voice

00:23:49.960 what they know

00:23:50.440 is right

00:23:50.860 why is it important

00:23:52.100 for women in particular

00:23:53.200 to speak out

00:23:54.400 about this

00:23:55.320 I think the biggest

00:23:56.580 thing on this

00:23:57.100 is obviously

00:23:57.520 men having a voice

00:23:58.440 in this

00:23:58.820 is helpful

00:23:59.280 right

00:23:59.520 because you know

00:24:00.160 you're part of society

00:24:00.940 but I think if women

00:24:01.940 can't speak out

00:24:02.780 about this themselves

00:24:03.700 then what's the point

00:24:05.320 of fighting

00:24:05.720 and that's kind of

00:24:06.420 part of the reason

00:24:06.820 why I'm personally

00:24:07.440 speaking out

00:24:07.960 is I've noticed

00:24:08.520 that most of the people

00:24:09.400 speaking out about this

00:24:10.280 are in the older

00:24:10.800 generations

00:24:11.320 and that's why

00:24:12.460 I think it's so important

00:24:13.180 for people like me

00:24:13.860 and Riley

00:24:14.240 to be talking about this

00:24:15.380 because if we

00:24:16.240 are the young people

00:24:17.260 that are going

00:24:17.700 through this ourselves

00:24:18.480 and we can't even

00:24:19.240 speak out about it

00:24:20.200 then what's the point

00:24:22.020 right

00:24:22.280 if we can't speak out

00:24:23.560 and we can't tell

00:24:24.120 our truth

00:24:24.740 then why is anyone

00:24:25.940 else fighting for us

00:24:26.820 like we have to

00:24:27.480 want it ourselves

00:24:28.420 for other people

00:24:29.020 to fight for us

00:24:29.860 and so I think

00:24:30.540 the same goes

00:24:31.060 for women

00:24:31.540 women have to fight

00:24:32.480 for this themselves

00:24:33.700 because it's our spaces

00:24:35.220 it's our sports

00:24:37.460 and I think

00:24:38.720 that's really powerful

00:24:40.040 when the women

00:24:40.500 come together

00:24:40.960 and do it

00:24:41.400 and obviously

00:24:41.820 men should also

00:24:42.500 speak about it

00:24:43.180 I don't disagree

00:24:43.960 with that

00:24:44.420 but it's really

00:24:45.400 we need to band together

00:24:46.400 and we need to

00:24:47.140 speak for what's right

00:24:48.320 what is your message

00:24:49.640 to any women

00:24:51.340 out there

00:24:51.820 that may be in the

00:24:52.560 spot that you were

00:24:53.160 a couple years ago

00:24:53.940 and this is happening

00:24:55.400 in their sports leagues

00:24:57.480 or their bathrooms

00:24:58.480 their spaces

00:24:59.060 are being invaded

00:24:59.620 they're not okay

00:25:01.040 with it

00:25:01.420 but they're afraid

00:25:02.660 they're nervous

00:25:03.260 what's your message

00:25:04.080 to them

00:25:04.420 I mean yeah

00:25:05.000 I'm still

00:25:05.500 I'm still really nervous

00:25:06.480 I mean it never

00:25:07.340 really goes away

00:25:08.160 but I think

00:25:09.580 the biggest thing

00:25:10.200 is you need to

00:25:10.720 think about

00:25:11.180 this is so much

00:25:11.900 more than yourself

00:25:12.500 right

00:25:12.740 I'm not swimming

00:25:13.380 anymore

00:25:13.800 I'm not dealing

00:25:15.040 with that anymore

00:25:15.820 I don't really have

00:25:17.460 any women's faces

00:25:18.640 currently that are

00:25:19.340 being invaded

00:25:19.880 but I think

00:25:21.240 the biggest thing

00:25:21.900 is to just

00:25:22.400 fight for those

00:25:23.340 people who don't

00:25:23.840 have a voice

00:25:24.360 right

00:25:24.600 those younger girls

00:25:25.540 the girls that are

00:25:26.180 age 12 to 14

00:25:28.220 that are starting

00:25:29.100 out on these

00:25:29.640 sports teams

00:25:30.340 they don't know

00:25:32.080 how to speak

00:25:32.540 for themselves

00:25:33.040 they don't know

00:25:33.600 what's right

00:25:34.000 and what's wrong

00:25:34.580 but you have to

00:25:35.160 speak out

00:25:36.140 and have the message

00:25:36.820 be told to them

00:25:38.140 that this is wrong

00:25:39.280 and they're not

00:25:41.100 going to have

00:25:41.360 as powerful of a voice

00:25:42.340 because they're not

00:25:43.020 older and they don't

00:25:43.640 have a platform

00:25:44.240 because they're

00:25:44.780 young girls

00:25:45.660 but that's who

00:25:46.140 we need to speak

00:25:46.560 out for

00:25:47.040 so I think

00:25:47.620 you need to

00:25:47.920 think about

00:25:48.360 speaking out

00:25:49.100 for everyone

00:25:49.880 who doesn't

00:25:50.340 have a voice

00:25:50.920 what do you think

00:25:52.160 happens to women's

00:25:52.860 sports in the next

00:25:54.260 10 years

00:25:54.760 if this trend

00:25:55.880 is not reversed

00:25:57.340 I just don't think

00:25:58.920 that they'll be

00:25:59.580 real anymore

00:26:01.260 I think there'll be

00:26:02.620 women

00:26:03.040 biological women

00:26:04.340 or you know

00:26:06.040 females

00:26:06.720 on these teams

00:26:07.880 but there won't

00:26:08.420 be as many of them

00:26:09.220 and a lot of them

00:26:10.000 on the way up

00:26:10.700 there will quit

00:26:11.340 it's discouraging

00:26:13.000 nobody wants

00:26:14.740 to be a part

00:26:15.220 of something

00:26:15.660 that you know

00:26:16.380 you know

00:26:19.300 you're going to

00:26:19.660 lose

00:26:20.000 nobody wants

00:26:21.000 to be part

00:26:21.300 of something

00:26:21.520 that's unfair

00:26:22.100 it's discouraging

00:26:23.740 and there's already

00:26:24.100 been instances

00:26:24.620 of professionals

00:26:25.600 who have quit

00:26:26.460 their sports

00:26:26.980 over this

00:26:27.620 so I think

00:26:28.940 again I don't

00:26:29.860 know what that

00:26:30.280 looks like

00:26:30.640 exactly

00:26:31.080 but I just

00:26:31.800 don't think

00:26:32.140 they'll be

00:26:32.500 truly women's

00:26:33.320 sports

00:26:33.540 and then we'll

00:26:34.000 have to say

00:26:34.440 oh let's make

00:26:35.060 a women's team

00:26:35.660 like they did

00:26:36.200 you know

00:26:36.680 40 plus years

00:26:37.700 ago

00:26:38.020 and we'll be

00:26:38.940 right back

00:26:39.600 to where they

00:26:40.000 were in the

00:26:40.340 70s

00:26:40.820 are you worried

00:26:41.880 about personal

00:26:43.840 reprisals

00:26:44.540 or what's going

00:26:45.180 to happen

00:26:45.600 what kind of

00:26:46.640 response you're

00:26:47.580 going to get

00:26:47.820 after going out

00:26:48.380 speaking publicly

00:26:49.260 like this

00:26:49.640 yeah I'm definitely

00:26:50.820 really worried

00:26:51.500 I think

00:26:52.700 obviously I know

00:26:54.180 what I face

00:26:55.220 even speaking

00:26:55.820 anonymously

00:26:56.400 with people

00:26:56.840 knowing my

00:26:57.300 opinion

00:26:57.600 but I think

00:26:59.140 it's so much

00:26:59.480 more than this

00:27:00.320 and for me

00:27:01.400 personally

00:27:01.900 I've come to

00:27:02.440 the point

00:27:02.760 where if you

00:27:03.260 can't respect

00:27:03.800 my opinion

00:27:04.360 and my

00:27:04.900 freedom of speech

00:27:06.360 and my

00:27:06.880 wanting to

00:27:07.840 tell the truth

00:27:08.580 then I don't

00:27:09.640 need to

00:27:10.180 worry about

00:27:11.020 your opinion

00:27:11.500 of mine

00:27:11.880 because you

00:27:12.280 can't respect

00:27:13.020 what I believe

00:27:14.780 so I think

00:27:16.120 that's my

00:27:17.060 feeling towards

00:27:17.980 that

00:27:18.240 and obviously

00:27:18.680 it is scary

00:27:19.320 and I'm sure

00:27:19.960 you know

00:27:20.980 others are

00:27:22.200 still afraid

00:27:22.940 but unfortunately

00:27:24.520 this is so much

00:27:25.200 bigger than just

00:27:25.740 my own personal

00:27:26.500 feelings

00:27:27.200 well I really

00:27:30.180 appreciate you

00:27:30.640 speaking out

00:27:31.140 takes a lot

00:27:31.700 of courage

00:27:32.140 and this is

00:27:32.960 what we need

00:27:33.360 we need you

00:27:33.820 we need Riley

00:27:34.260 Gaines

00:27:34.560 we need so many

00:27:35.080 more

00:27:35.240 like you've

00:27:35.960 said

00:27:36.420 I'm hoping

00:27:36.880 there'll be

00:27:37.160 more

00:27:37.400 thanks for

00:27:38.720 being here

00:27:39.260 and talking

00:27:39.520 to us

00:27:39.820 thank you so

00:27:40.680 much for

00:27:40.900 having me

The Matt Walsh Show - June 09, 2023

Former Teammate Of Lia Thomas Unveils Herself

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