Matt Walsh Revisits His What Is A Woman Interview With Dr. Forcier
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Summary
Dr. Michelle Forcier is a pediatrician, an abortionist, and a gender affirming pediatrician who is also an advocate for abortion and gender reassignment surgery. In this episode, we talk to her about her journey to becoming a gender affirmation advocate and about her experiences with her own children.
Transcript
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Well, you know, we talked to a lot of people for my film, What is a Woman, which is streaming now
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exclusively on the Daily Wire. And you go to whatiswoman.com and get signed up and you can
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watch the film right now. Many of the conversations we had were unintentionally hilarious. Many were
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disturbing. Veering significantly over to the disturbing end of the spectrum is my interview
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with Dr. Michelle Forcier, who is, as you'll hear her proudly identify herself, a gender-affirming
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pediatrician, also an abortionist. We flew up to Providence, Rhode Island to speak with Dr. Forcier.
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She was, you know, friendly enough at first. And what we found in many of the interviews that you'll
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see in What is a Woman is that gender ideologues are very polite and nice right up until the moment
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when you express any skepticism at all. But before we get to that point where things really start to
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sort of fall apart, let's get to know Michelle a little bit. Watch.
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My name is Michelle Forcier, and I have a medical degree from University of Connecticut residency,
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University of Utah Pediatrics. And I've worked for a number of different Planned Parenthoods for
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20 years. I do advanced contraception and abortion, as well as gender hormones, and sort of looking at
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the whole sort of schema of gender, sex, and reproductive justice.
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So you've done a lot of work in this field. Could you just start by telling us?
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At what age can a child first begin to transition into another gender or identify themselves as
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Yeah. Well, I mean, there's research and data that show that babies and infants understand
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differences in gender. Some children figure out their gender really early. And the reason
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why we say, oh, that's interesting or important is because they're figuring out their gender
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identity is not necessarily congruent with their sex assigned at birth.
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When the doctor sees the penis and says, this is a male, has the sex of male, that's an arbitrary
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Telling that family, based on that little penis, that your child is absolutely 100% male-identified
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no matter what else occurs in their life, that's not correct.
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So what does gender affirmation care? You're a big proponent of. If we walk through, a child
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is sitting down with you, is questioning their gender. What's the gender affirmation process?
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Affirmation means that as a pediatrician, as someone who says my job is to provide the
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best medical care for you, is I need to listen really carefully. And how I put it in words
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for kids so that they can understand it is, tell me your story. Where have you been in terms
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of your gender and your gender identity? Where are you right now? And more excitingly, where
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Have you ever met a four-year-old who believes in Santa Claus?
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So this is someone who believes that a fat man is traveling through the sky on a flying
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reindeer at lightning speed, coming down his chimney with presents.
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Would you say that this is someone who maybe has a tenuous grasp on reality?
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They have an appropriate four-year-old handle on the reality that's very real for them.
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Agreed. Agreed. But Santa Claus is real for them, but Santa Claus is not actually real.
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Yeah, well, but Santa Claus does deliver their Christmas presents.
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When I see a child who, you know, believes in Santa Claus, and then let's say this is a
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boy, and he says, I'm a girl, this is someone who can't distinguish between fantasy and reality,
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I would say that as a pediatrician and as a parent, I would say how wonderful my four-year-old
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You know, one of the hardest things as we did this film, especially in interviewing somebody
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like that, is not, like, my instinct is just to yell at them to begin with, but that's not what the,
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it's kind of a short film, if it's just me going around yelling at people.
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The objective here is to ask questions, and that's all we did through the whole film,
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And let gender ideology essentially hang itself, is the idea, and to show,
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is this something that can withstand scrutiny or not, even just basic scrutiny?
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So what's happening in that exchange is, first of all, she says, talking about a child who sits
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down with her, is she wants to know about their gender journey, and where would you like to be
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So she's talking about a child's, like, five-year gender plan.
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But the point I was trying to get across to her is that children don't have a grasp on reality.
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I mean, even if, in theory, people could choose their own gender, which they can't, but if they
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could, it wouldn't make sense to say that a child could choose it.
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If a child is four years old and believes that not only Santa Claus is real, but that fairies
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and dragons, and it lives appropriately in this kind of fantasy world, and then the boy says
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that I'm a girl, that claim exists within the same fantasy world.
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This is a kid who just doesn't understand the distinction between fantasy and reality.
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But then again, as I found there, Michelle wouldn't even affirm that Santa doesn't exist.
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Like, are you, do you actually think that Santa exists?
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But it's, as you're talking to these people, it's like your own, you feel yourself going
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So it was a pretty bewildering exchange there, but it only gets weirder from here.
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The same truth that says we're sitting in this room right now, you and I.
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If I see a chicken laying eggs and I say that's a female chicken laying eggs, did I
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assign female, or am I just observing a physical reality that's happening in the world?
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A chicken has sex like any biological organism.
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A chicken has an assigned gender, but a chicken doesn't have a gender identity.
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So we assign female to chickens when they lay eggs?
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That right there will go down for me as maybe one of the most...
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And every other thing that makes it on this particular list also happened in the film,
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but certainly one of the most outrageous exchanges I've ever had with anybody.
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And of course, see, this is what happens when you start asking questions to the proponent
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of gender ideology is they end up backing themselves into various corners and they have
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to make increasingly more wild sort of claims to get themselves out of the corners that they've
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And so when you're talking about sex, for example, like it's all on a spectrum and sex
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is something that is, as she says in our conversation, she says that sex is assigned at birth, that
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just like doctors are just deciding this kind of arbitrarily.
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Well, if that's the nature of sex, then what about other organisms aside from human beings?
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Okay, we would also say that when a chicken is laying eggs, oh, well, that's a female chicken.
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Is that just something we've decided that the chicken is female or is the chicken female?
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And if the chicken is female, then that would tell us something about the nature of biological
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sex, which is that it's not assigned, it is observed, but she can't go along with that.
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And so she starts talking about the chicken's gender identity and whether chickens commit
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Well, last week, Kim Kardashian announced her new role as chief taste consultant for
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According to a Bloomberg report, this is a last-dish effort for the company's survival, having
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seen an 80% plunge in shares of the last 12 months.
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They say, quote, Kim's ability to raise a company's profile will be welcome for Beyond Meat,
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which is working to tame waning consumer curiosity about its products.
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Fake meat is gross, and eating fake meat is not going to save the environment.
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Also, it's fitting that a fake meat company would make the fakest person on the planet
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At what age does the medical transition begin with medication?
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So medical affirmation begins when the patient says they're ready for it.
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So that could be a kiddo who is just starting puberty and panicking because they're getting
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breast buds or their penis is getting bigger and busier and they're worried about all kinds
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And that way, puberty blockers, which are completely reversible and don't have permanent effects,
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are wonderful because we can put that pause on puberty.
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Just like if you were listening to music, you put the pause on and we stop the blockers and
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The next note in the song just delayed that period of time.
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So this is a part from later in the film as we start getting into more of the specifics
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And I'm not going to say myself right now a lot in response to that because you have
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Because as I said, I'm asking questions and we don't just ask questions of people on this
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So there's a little bit of a back and forth here, but we're going to get a response in
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the film to this claim that puberty can just be, just be, you know, just pause it, as she
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Where you can take a drug to intentionally interfere with certain normal, healthy processes
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and you could take, and then there's, there's no negative consequences at all.
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Just stop taking the drug and pick up where you left off.
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Which of course, the interesting thing is that even if that was true, which it isn't,
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as you'll see in the film, but even if it was true, well then wouldn't that mean, I mean,
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if a child's taking puberty blockers to stop their normal development and then we're just
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putting it on pause for, let's say five years, and then they decide that, okay, I don't want
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to take this anymore. Well, at a minimum, now they're going to be five years behind in
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their growth and development. So even according to her version of events, like at a minimum,
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you're going to have stunted growth and you're going to have someone who is behind in their
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physical development. But actually the consequences are a lot worse than that. As we discover in
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the film, and as we get into in this next exchange about the puberty blockers themselves, what are
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they? What do they do? What is their, what is their actual purpose? Let's watch that.
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One of the drugs used is Lupron, right? Which has actually been used to chemically castrate sex
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offenders. You know what? I'm not sure that we should continue with this interview because it
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seems like it's going in a particular direction. Well, you're a medical professional. I am a
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medical professional. So you don't want to talk about the drugs that you give to kids or?
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Again, I'm a physician and I use medication. You're choosing exploitive words, drugs I give to kids.
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I'm choosing a word that was in a dictionary. That's not a correct term for puberty blocking.
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I could like look it up on my phone, but I'm pretty sure if I looked it up.
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You can look it up on your phone. So there's medical definition, the administration of a drug
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to bring about a mark reduction in the body's production of androgens and especially testosterone.
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And I'm saying as a pediatrician who takes care of hundreds of these kids, when you use that
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terminology, you were being malignant and harmful. I mean, there are some who would say that giving
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chemical castration drugs to kids is malignant and harmful.
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It's about the context of caring for a child and seeing the suffering that kids can have that have
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So that was the part in our conversation where things got a bit contentious. But I wouldn't say
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that that's when they started to get contentious. Actually, what we discovered in doing these
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interviews is that, you know, I kind of knew going in, I had certain points in mind where I thought,
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okay, well, when I ask this question, it, you know, things might get a little bit tense. And I kind of
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know, well, because that's, that's, that's more of a challenging question. And what I found so often
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in these interviews is that things got tense much earlier than I originally thought they would,
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because there were questions that I thought would be really easy for the person that I'm talking to
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that turned out not to be easy at all. Questions like, uh, what's the difference between sex and
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gender? You know, these are like, that's, that's supposed to be a softball, but even that things
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start go off the rails in a lot of these interviews. When I ask even a question like that, because what
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we found is that, um, these people, these gender ideologues, especially the ones who are in this
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industry and they're making a lot of money off of promoting gender confusion, especially in kids.
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It's the, what we found is that they are not prepared to encounter any skepticism at all.
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They're not prepared to answer any questions. The only questions they're prepared to answer are the
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questions that are not really questions at all, right? Questions like, uh, how, how meaningful is
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it to you to be able to help people in their gender journey? Like that, those kinds of questions,
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where it's just a setup for them to give a pre-planned canned, uh, you know, speech. So by
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the time we got to this exchange, it had already gotten pretty tense. And, uh, and of course I asked
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her about Lupron. Now this is a drug that she gives to kids. And as we hear from somebody else in the
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film, Scott Nugent, um, who has experience with these kinds of drugs, personal experience, this drug
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in particular is a drug. It is actually by definition chemical castration, which is why I wasn't planning on
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doing this, but I pulled out my phone, look up the definition of chemical castration. She said, she says
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that chemical castration, that's an exploitative word. And I'm being malignant and harmful by using
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that word. Well, look up the definition of chemical castration. And that is a puberty blocker. That is
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by definition, when you give a kid a puberty blocker, you are performing chemical castration on the kid
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period. And we know that because Lupron specifically has been used to chemically castrate sex offenders.
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You notice in that exchange, by the way, she didn't deny. She, she takes issue with the words
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that I'm using. She threatens to get up and storm out. Um, she's offended by the, by the way that
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I'm phrasing it, the words, but she never says, oh no, that's, that's, that's totally incorrect.
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Lupron does not do that. Lupron has never been used that way. Doesn't say that because she can't.
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And then finally, of course, we get to the question, which is the question I ask
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everyone, which is, what is a woman? And probably he's not going to surprise you by now that she
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doesn't exactly have an answer for it, but let's listen to what she comes up with.
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So we're going on this journey. Boys can be girls. Girls can be boys. Men can be women. Women can be men.
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What is a woman? A woman is someone who claims that as their identity. It could be many things to
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That was her answer. Well, a woman is anyone. And that was, by the way, not to give any spoilers away,
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but that is the answer from the left to the question, which is a non-answer. It's the same
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thing as not answering it at all. But that is, that is the answer. A woman is someone who says
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they're a woman. And of course, to everyone who gives me that answer in the film, I have the
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follow-up. Well, a woman is someone who identifies as a woman. What are they identifying as? And around
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and around we go because they don't have an answer to the question. This is a medical doctor
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who can't tell you what a woman is. I mean, this is someone who, who, if someone goes to her and
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says, as a man and says, I, you know, I'm really a woman and I want to transition into a woman.
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She will help facilitate that process. And yet she doesn't know what the word means.
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She doesn't actually know. She, by her own testimony, when someone says, I want to transition
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to a woman, she doesn't even know what that means. Like, what are you transitioning into?
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She has no idea. As we found over and over again in the film. And that was just a few minutes of
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the film. Only one person of the dozens that we spoke to. And I can tell you right now that
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what we heard in those clips there, I don't think any of it qualifies as quite the craziest thing we
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heard. The chicken part gets pretty close. Still not all the way there. There's, there's so much more
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that you need to see, but you have to go to whatisawoman.com and subscribe to see it a lot more
00:19:19.400
where that came from. I promise you go see for yourself. Whatisawoman.com.