The Matt Walsh Show - Matt Walsh Revisits His What Is A Woman Interview With Dr. Forcier

00:00:00.000 Well, you know, we talked to a lot of people for my film, What is a Woman, which is streaming now

00:00:04.240 exclusively on the Daily Wire. And you go to whatiswoman.com and get signed up and you can

00:00:08.480 watch the film right now. Many of the conversations we had were unintentionally hilarious. Many were

00:00:14.720 disturbing. Veering significantly over to the disturbing end of the spectrum is my interview

00:00:19.000 with Dr. Michelle Forcier, who is, as you'll hear her proudly identify herself, a gender-affirming

00:00:25.380 pediatrician, also an abortionist. We flew up to Providence, Rhode Island to speak with Dr. Forcier.

00:00:30.940 She was, you know, friendly enough at first. And what we found in many of the interviews that you'll

00:00:37.900 see in What is a Woman is that gender ideologues are very polite and nice right up until the moment 0.94

00:00:45.680 when you express any skepticism at all. But before we get to that point where things really start to

00:00:52.440 sort of fall apart, let's get to know Michelle a little bit. Watch.

00:00:59.740 My name is Michelle Forcier, and I have a medical degree from University of Connecticut residency,

00:01:06.560 University of Utah Pediatrics. And I've worked for a number of different Planned Parenthoods for

00:01:11.500 20 years. I do advanced contraception and abortion, as well as gender hormones, and sort of looking at

00:01:17.620 the whole sort of schema of gender, sex, and reproductive justice.

00:01:22.380 So you've done a lot of work in this field. Could you just start by telling us?

00:01:25.040 Sure.

00:01:26.480 At what age can a child first begin to transition into another gender or identify themselves as

00:01:35.320 a gender different from how they were born?

00:01:37.500 Yeah. Well, I mean, there's research and data that show that babies and infants understand

00:01:44.220 differences in gender. Some children figure out their gender really early. And the reason 1.00

00:01:51.540 why we say, oh, that's interesting or important is because they're figuring out their gender

00:01:56.680 identity is not necessarily congruent with their sex assigned at birth.

00:02:00.340 When the doctor sees the penis and says, this is a male, has the sex of male, that's an arbitrary 0.54

00:02:07.120 distinction? 0.99

00:02:09.340 Telling that family, based on that little penis, that your child is absolutely 100% male-identified 0.99

00:02:18.100 no matter what else occurs in their life, that's not correct. 0.95

00:02:22.960 So what does gender affirmation care? You're a big proponent of. If we walk through, a child

00:02:27.520 is sitting down with you, is questioning their gender. What's the gender affirmation process?

00:02:34.400 Affirmation means that as a pediatrician, as someone who says my job is to provide the

00:02:39.580 best medical care for you, is I need to listen really carefully. And how I put it in words

00:02:45.720 for kids so that they can understand it is, tell me your story. Where have you been in terms

00:02:51.500 of your gender and your gender identity? Where are you right now? And more excitingly, where

00:02:57.280 would you like to be in the future?

00:02:59.120 Have you ever met a four-year-old who believes in Santa Claus?

00:03:04.540 Mm-hmm.

00:03:05.500 So this is someone who believes that a fat man is traveling through the sky on a flying

00:03:11.720 reindeer at lightning speed, coming down his chimney with presents.

00:03:15.300 Yeah.

00:03:15.800 Would you say that this is someone who maybe has a tenuous grasp on reality?

00:03:20.100 They have an appropriate four-year-old handle on the reality that's very real for them.

00:03:24.980 Agreed. Agreed. But Santa Claus is real for them, but Santa Claus is not actually real.

00:03:29.240 Yeah, well, but Santa Claus does deliver their Christmas presents.

00:03:33.080 Well, yeah, but he's not real, though.

00:03:35.140 To that child, they are.

00:03:37.520 When I see a child who, you know, believes in Santa Claus, and then let's say this is a

00:03:41.740 boy, and he says, I'm a girl, this is someone who can't distinguish between fantasy and reality,

00:03:47.520 so how could you take that as a reality?

00:03:52.640 I would say that as a pediatrician and as a parent, I would say how wonderful my four-year-old

00:03:58.500 and their imagination is.

00:04:00.060 You know, one of the hardest things as we did this film, especially in interviewing somebody

00:04:04.020 like that, is not, like, my instinct is just to yell at them to begin with, but that's not what the,

00:04:13.820 it's kind of a short film, if it's just me going around yelling at people.

00:04:16.800 The objective here is to ask questions, and that's all we did through the whole film,

00:04:21.860 is just ask questions.

00:04:25.840 And let gender ideology essentially hang itself, is the idea, and to show, 0.95

00:04:31.660 is this something that can withstand scrutiny or not, even just basic scrutiny?

00:04:39.240 And what we discovered is that it can't.

00:04:40.880 So what's happening in that exchange is, first of all, she says, talking about a child who sits

00:04:46.920 down with her, is she wants to know about their gender journey, and where would you like to be

00:04:53.120 in the future?

00:04:53.880 So she's talking about a child's, like, five-year gender plan.

00:04:57.220 But the point I was trying to get across to her is that children don't have a grasp on reality.

00:05:03.640 I mean, even if, in theory, people could choose their own gender, which they can't, but if they

00:05:09.260 could, it wouldn't make sense to say that a child could choose it.

00:05:14.040 Children believe in Santa Claus.

00:05:15.940 So, like, what do they know about reality?

00:05:17.600 If a child is four years old and believes that not only Santa Claus is real, but that fairies 1.00

00:05:24.140 and dragons, and it lives appropriately in this kind of fantasy world, and then the boy says

00:05:30.180 that I'm a girl, that claim exists within the same fantasy world.

00:05:36.140 This is just imagination.

00:05:37.660 This is a kid who just doesn't understand the distinction between fantasy and reality.

00:05:42.400 So how can they make these determinations?

00:05:44.000 But then again, as I found there, Michelle wouldn't even affirm that Santa doesn't exist.

00:05:49.580 So I was unclear about that also.

00:05:51.380 Like, are you, do you actually think that Santa exists?

00:05:54.640 What's happening?

00:05:55.360 But it's, as you're talking to these people, it's like your own, you feel yourself going

00:06:00.540 slightly insane.

00:06:01.980 So it was a pretty bewildering exchange there, but it only gets weirder from here.

00:06:06.260 Let's keep watching.

00:06:07.240 Male gametes.

00:06:08.640 That's what makes me male.

00:06:09.820 No. 0.99

00:06:10.520 Your sperm don't make you male. 1.00

00:06:12.520 Then what does? 0.71

00:06:14.000 It's a constellation.

00:06:15.600 In reality.

00:06:17.200 In truth.

00:06:18.600 Okay.

00:06:19.160 Whose truth are we talking about?

00:06:20.760 The same truth that says we're sitting in this room right now, you and I.

00:06:23.280 No.

00:06:24.140 You're not listening.

00:06:25.360 If I see a chicken laying eggs and I say that's a female chicken laying eggs, did I 1.00

00:06:28.820 assign female, or am I just observing a physical reality that's happening in the world?

00:06:33.000 Does a chicken have gender identity?

00:06:34.760 Does a chicken cry?

00:06:36.120 Does a chicken commit suicide?

00:06:38.420 Let's frame it.

00:06:39.500 Because you're talking, you're trying to...

00:06:41.340 A chicken has sex like any biological organism.

00:06:44.260 A chicken has an assigned gender, but a chicken doesn't have a gender identity.

00:06:48.160 So we assign female to chickens when they lay eggs? 1.00

00:06:50.420 We assume they're female if they lay eggs. 1.00

00:06:52.580 That right there will go down for me as maybe one of the most...

00:06:58.780 Probably...

00:06:59.700 And every other thing that makes it on this particular list also happened in the film,

00:07:03.680 but certainly one of the most outrageous exchanges I've ever had with anybody.

00:07:08.340 And of course, see, this is what happens when you start asking questions to the proponent

00:07:14.900 of gender ideology is they end up backing themselves into various corners and they have 0.99

00:07:21.920 to make increasingly more wild sort of claims to get themselves out of the corners that they've

00:07:29.040 backed themselves into.

00:07:30.100 And so when you're talking about sex, for example, like it's all on a spectrum and sex

00:07:37.820 is something that is, as she says in our conversation, she says that sex is assigned at birth, that

00:07:45.040 just like doctors are just deciding this kind of arbitrarily.

00:07:49.500 Well, if that's the nature of sex, then what about other organisms aside from human beings?

00:07:58.420 Okay, we would also say that when a chicken is laying eggs, oh, well, that's a female chicken. 0.99

00:08:02.340 Are we assigning that?

00:08:04.080 Is that just something we've decided that the chicken is female or is the chicken female? 0.98

00:08:10.100 And if the chicken is female, then that would tell us something about the nature of biological 0.79

00:08:14.180 sex, which is that it's not assigned, it is observed, but she can't go along with that.

00:08:18.660 And so she starts talking about the chicken's gender identity and whether chickens commit

00:08:22.160 suicide.

00:08:23.840 And it doesn't get much better from there.

00:08:25.520 Well, last week, Kim Kardashian announced her new role as chief taste consultant for

00:08:30.560 Beyond Meat, an alternative meat maker.

00:08:33.180 According to a Bloomberg report, this is a last-dish effort for the company's survival, having

00:08:37.520 seen an 80% plunge in shares of the last 12 months.

00:08:40.260 They say, quote, Kim's ability to raise a company's profile will be welcome for Beyond Meat,

00:08:44.640 which is working to tame waning consumer curiosity about its products.

00:08:49.820 I shouldn't have to say this, but I will.

00:08:51.800 Fake meat is gross, and eating fake meat is not going to save the environment.

00:08:56.440 Also, it's fitting that a fake meat company would make the fakest person on the planet

00:09:00.200 their chief taste consultant.

00:09:01.460 So there's a little bit of some symmetry and poetry there.

00:09:04.500 I don't like fake things.

00:09:05.540 I like the real deal.

00:09:06.340 That's why I've officially declared myself the unofficial chief taste consultant for Good

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00:09:39.780 At what age does the medical transition begin with medication?

00:09:45.080 So medical affirmation begins when the patient says they're ready for it.

00:09:50.000 So that could be a kiddo who is just starting puberty and panicking because they're getting 0.98

00:09:56.400 breast buds or their penis is getting bigger and busier and they're worried about all kinds 0.99

00:10:02.420 of masculine changes. 0.93

00:10:03.620 And that way, puberty blockers, which are completely reversible and don't have permanent effects,

00:10:11.100 are wonderful because we can put that pause on puberty.

00:10:15.140 Just like if you were listening to music, you put the pause on and we stop the blockers and

00:10:19.900 puberty would go right back to where it was.

00:10:23.040 The next note in the song just delayed that period of time.

00:10:26.940 So this is a part from later in the film as we start getting into more of the specifics

00:10:30.940 here about puberty blockers.

00:10:33.200 And I'm not going to say myself right now a lot in response to that because you have

00:10:36.440 to go watch the film.

00:10:38.700 Because as I said, I'm asking questions and we don't just ask questions of people on this

00:10:43.220 side.

00:10:43.520 We bring in other people.

00:10:44.440 So there's a little bit of a back and forth here, but we're going to get a response in

00:10:49.640 the film to this claim that puberty can just be, just be, you know, just pause it, as she 0.73

00:10:55.240 says, like music.

00:10:56.720 Does the human body work that way?

00:11:01.060 I mean, is that the way it works?

00:11:03.260 Where you can take a drug to intentionally interfere with certain normal, healthy processes

00:11:12.480 and you could take, and then there's, there's no negative consequences at all.

00:11:17.700 Just stop taking the drug and pick up where you left off.

00:11:20.940 Which of course, the interesting thing is that even if that was true, which it isn't,

00:11:24.460 as you'll see in the film, but even if it was true, well then wouldn't that mean, I mean,

00:11:29.000 if a child's taking puberty blockers to stop their normal development and then we're just

00:11:35.140 putting it on pause for, let's say five years, and then they decide that, okay, I don't want

00:11:40.740 to take this anymore. Well, at a minimum, now they're going to be five years behind in

00:11:45.600 their growth and development. So even according to her version of events, like at a minimum,

00:11:51.940 you're going to have stunted growth and you're going to have someone who is behind in their

00:11:57.360 physical development. But actually the consequences are a lot worse than that. As we discover in

00:12:02.140 the film, and as we get into in this next exchange about the puberty blockers themselves, what are

00:12:09.720 they? What do they do? What is their, what is their actual purpose? Let's watch that.

00:12:16.980 One of the drugs used is Lupron, right? Which has actually been used to chemically castrate sex 0.99

00:12:22.920 offenders. You know what? I'm not sure that we should continue with this interview because it

00:12:27.820 seems like it's going in a particular direction. Well, you're a medical professional. I am a

00:12:32.260 medical professional. So you don't want to talk about the drugs that you give to kids or?

00:12:38.160 Again, I'm a physician and I use medication. You're choosing exploitive words, drugs I give to kids.

00:12:45.560 I'm choosing a word that was in a dictionary. That's not a correct term for puberty blocking.

00:12:50.640 I could like look it up on my phone, but I'm pretty sure if I looked it up.

00:12:52.960 You can look it up on your phone. So there's medical definition, the administration of a drug

00:12:57.920 to bring about a mark reduction in the body's production of androgens and especially testosterone.

00:13:02.420 And I'm saying as a pediatrician who takes care of hundreds of these kids, when you use that

00:13:08.440 terminology, you were being malignant and harmful. I mean, there are some who would say that giving

00:13:13.480 chemical castration drugs to kids is malignant and harmful.

00:13:16.760 It's about the context of caring for a child and seeing the suffering that kids can have that have

00:13:25.760 not been an affirmative home situation.

00:13:28.440 So that was the part in our conversation where things got a bit contentious. But I wouldn't say

00:13:36.280 that that's when they started to get contentious. Actually, what we discovered in doing these

00:13:40.660 interviews is that, you know, I kind of knew going in, I had certain points in mind where I thought,

00:13:48.700 okay, well, when I ask this question, it, you know, things might get a little bit tense. And I kind of

00:13:53.900 know, well, because that's, that's, that's more of a challenging question. And what I found so often

00:13:58.060 in these interviews is that things got tense much earlier than I originally thought they would,

00:14:03.840 because there were questions that I thought would be really easy for the person that I'm talking to

00:14:08.500 that turned out not to be easy at all. Questions like, uh, what's the difference between sex and

00:14:14.600 gender? You know, these are like, that's, that's supposed to be a softball, but even that things

00:14:20.480 start go off the rails in a lot of these interviews. When I ask even a question like that, because what

00:14:24.560 we found is that, um, these people, these gender ideologues, especially the ones who are in this

00:14:29.140 industry and they're making a lot of money off of promoting gender confusion, especially in kids.

00:14:35.460 It's the, what we found is that they are not prepared to encounter any skepticism at all.

00:14:45.220 They're not prepared to answer any questions. The only questions they're prepared to answer are the

00:14:50.700 questions that are not really questions at all, right? Questions like, uh, how, how meaningful is

00:14:56.600 it to you to be able to help people in their gender journey? Like that, those kinds of questions,

00:15:01.180 where it's just a setup for them to give a pre-planned canned, uh, you know, speech. So by

00:15:06.480 the time we got to this exchange, it had already gotten pretty tense. And, uh, and of course I asked

00:15:11.560 her about Lupron. Now this is a drug that she gives to kids. And as we hear from somebody else in the

00:15:15.920 film, Scott Nugent, um, who has experience with these kinds of drugs, personal experience, this drug

00:15:20.500 in particular is a drug. It is actually by definition chemical castration, which is why I wasn't planning on

00:15:26.880 doing this, but I pulled out my phone, look up the definition of chemical castration. She said, she says 0.95

00:15:31.340 that chemical castration, that's an exploitative word. And I'm being malignant and harmful by using

00:15:35.760 that word. Well, look up the definition of chemical castration. And that is a puberty blocker. That is

00:15:43.060 by definition, when you give a kid a puberty blocker, you are performing chemical castration on the kid

00:15:48.180 period. And we know that because Lupron specifically has been used to chemically castrate sex offenders.

00:15:57.140 You notice in that exchange, by the way, she didn't deny. She, she takes issue with the words

00:16:01.760 that I'm using. She threatens to get up and storm out. Um, she's offended by the, by the way that

00:16:07.600 I'm phrasing it, the words, but she never says, oh no, that's, that's, that's totally incorrect.

00:16:13.860 Lupron does not do that. Lupron has never been used that way. Doesn't say that because she can't.

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00:17:18.460 And then finally, of course, we get to the question, which is the question I ask

00:17:22.260 everyone, which is, what is a woman? And probably he's not going to surprise you by now that she

00:17:28.060 doesn't exactly have an answer for it, but let's listen to what she comes up with.

00:17:33.700 So we're going on this journey. Boys can be girls. Girls can be boys. Men can be women. Women can be men.

00:17:39.780 women. It makes me wonder, what is a woman? 1.00

00:17:45.020 What is a woman? A woman is someone who claims that as their identity. It could be many things to 1.00

00:17:51.120 many people.

00:17:53.380 That was her answer. Well, a woman is anyone. And that was, by the way, not to give any spoilers away,

00:17:58.800 but that is the answer from the left to the question, which is a non-answer. It's the same

00:18:05.840 thing as not answering it at all. But that is, that is the answer. A woman is someone who says 0.92

00:18:09.560 they're a woman. And of course, to everyone who gives me that answer in the film, I have the

00:18:13.680 follow-up. Well, a woman is someone who identifies as a woman. What are they identifying as? And around

00:18:18.180 and around we go because they don't have an answer to the question. This is a medical doctor

00:18:24.220 who can't tell you what a woman is. I mean, this is someone who, who, if someone goes to her and 0.99

00:18:32.300 says, as a man and says, I, you know, I'm really a woman and I want to transition into a woman.

00:18:37.120 She will help facilitate that process. And yet she doesn't know what the word means.

00:18:43.040 She doesn't actually know. She, by her own testimony, when someone says, I want to transition

00:18:49.160 to a woman, she doesn't even know what that means. Like, what are you transitioning into? 0.63

00:18:51.440 She has no idea. As we found over and over again in the film. And that was just a few minutes of

00:18:57.280 the film. Only one person of the dozens that we spoke to. And I can tell you right now that

00:19:03.420 what we heard in those clips there, I don't think any of it qualifies as quite the craziest thing we

00:19:10.180 heard. The chicken part gets pretty close. Still not all the way there. There's, there's so much more

00:19:13.880 that you need to see, but you have to go to whatisawoman.com and subscribe to see it a lot more

00:19:19.400 where that came from. I promise you go see for yourself. Whatisawoman.com.

The Matt Walsh Show - June 03, 2022

Matt Walsh Revisits His What Is A Woman Interview With Dr. Forcier

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