The Matt Walsh Show - The Transgender Craze Seducing America： An Interview With Author Abigail Shrier

00:00:00.000 We're joined today by Abigail Schreier. She's the author of the book Irreversible Damage,

00:00:04.000 The Transgender Craze, Seducing Our Daughters, which is out in paperback this week. And you 0.61

00:00:08.140 should definitely pick it up because it is, and I've told her this, I think it's one of the most

00:00:12.560 important books of this century, which is not an exaggeration. So first of all, Abigail,

00:00:18.900 congratulations on the book and thanks for writing it. Thanks for being here.

00:00:22.800 Thank you. Thank you so much for having me on.

00:00:25.100 So I want to talk about two recent articles you wrote, but before that,

00:00:29.100 we'll start with the book, of course. And the first thing I'm curious about before we get to

00:00:32.600 the substance of the book is the reaction to it. I'm curious how that's been for you. Clearly,

00:00:38.960 there are plenty of people out there like me who are grateful that the book exists and that you

00:00:43.440 wrote it. But I can imagine, given that this is the most toxic subject in our culture today,

00:00:49.180 that you've encountered some extremely intense pushback, which is probably an understatement.

00:00:53.120 So how has that been over the last year? You know, it's been wild. It's really

00:00:58.860 bifurcated the reaction. So you get, I'm completely flooded with thank you notes from not only from

00:01:06.220 parents, but therapists, doctors, and across the political spectrum. I mean, people are really

00:01:13.460 grateful for people who are willing to speak the truth about what's going on. Then you have the

00:01:21.260 small group of very, very energized activists who, who, you know, somehow, you know, are, are really 0.98

00:01:29.680 want, want to rape me apparently. Um, so it's, it's a very strange sort of position to be in 0.88

00:01:36.700 because it, because you do have these sort of two extremes. And have they successfully,

00:01:41.840 I know there's been campaigns to get the book taken down from Amazon or kicked out of various

00:01:46.100 booksellers, but has that been successful? Any of those efforts? Well, you know, it's hard to,

00:01:54.040 to, to say, I mean, here's what I'll say, you know, it's, it depends how you define success. I mean,

00:02:00.640 look at target. So target.com, I sold a lot of books because target.com removed it after two

00:02:06.340 Twitter activists complained, they removed the book. There was outcry. I sold a lot of books that sold

00:02:12.240 out everywhere. They put the book back up for sale. And then the second, no one was watching

00:02:16.700 the quietly deleted it again. So it's not available and has not been for months and months and months

00:02:21.160 has not been available target.com. And you see this testing going on at all over the place. I mean,

00:02:27.180 I got a letter the other day from a man in Vermont who had offered to donate it to his library and the

00:02:33.240 library refused to take it. This is a book that people are on waiting lists to read. And, um, you know,

00:02:39.900 libraries won't, you know, very often won't carry it. They just refuse. Um, and, and we're seeing

00:02:45.880 that, you know, in, in Halifax, Nova Scotia, there was a, there are 150 people on a list to read the

00:02:50.740 book and pride tried to shut it down and have it removed on the grounds that in, in a library of

00:02:56.320 literally over a million volumes, this one book made them unsafe. And the libraries, do they give

00:03:02.980 a reason for not carrying it or, or, uh, I can imagine what reason they would give or would

00:03:09.280 claim, but do they give an actual reason? Sure. Are they anything from, oh, she's not a medical

00:03:14.880 doctor, which of course, you know, no journalist who writes about any medical scandals ever a medical

00:03:21.220 doctor. We're just, you know, that's why we interview experts, um, to, um, you know, this is

00:03:26.700 not the consensus view. Well, there is no consensus view. That's the problem. Um, there's a lot of

00:03:32.200 disagreement within the medical community, how this should be handled. Unfortunately, what's going

00:03:36.580 on right now is a real medical scandal and the few doctors, you know, who are willing to speak up

00:03:42.980 really risk losing their license. And of course, the thing about the book is you're, you're allowing

00:03:48.340 for the vast majority of the book is you're allowing other people to simply tell their stories. So it's

00:03:54.780 not like it's, it didn't come across to me as polemical at all. It was just this, this, these,

00:04:01.820 this is what's happening. Here are the stories and I'm just sharing them with you. That's,

00:04:05.720 that's what the book is. Yeah. I didn't, I didn't start, um, with, with a belief and I don't,

00:04:11.520 you know, I have never pushed a policy prescription or anything like that with regard to this, you know,

00:04:17.380 transgender healthcare. I just pointed out, you know, I did an exploration of the, there's a sudden

00:04:22.600 rise out of nowhere of teenage girls deciding they were transgender. I looked at why, why are they 1.00

00:04:29.200 suddenly the leading demographic? We have a hundred year diagnostic history of this thing

00:04:33.280 called gender dysphoria, the severe discomfort in once biological sex. And it was always boys and 0.99

00:04:38.360 men. And now overwhelmingly the leading demographic is teenage girls across the West. And, and I wanted

00:04:44.180 to look at why, why that might be. And I explored, you know, I talked to a lot of experts who offer a

00:04:49.460 lot of different reasons and, uh, that's what I explored in the book. Yeah. So let's continue along

00:04:54.100 with that because you're, you're, to me, the book was eyeopening on a number of level levels. And

00:04:58.640 originally I didn't think, cause I, I spent a lot of time talking about this subject as well and,

00:05:04.460 and researching it. And I like to think I'm pretty aware of what's going on. So at first I was skeptical

00:05:10.480 that, that honestly the book could tell me anything I didn't already know. Uh, but it, it did actually

00:05:15.300 have quite, quite a bit that I didn't know. And the first is the most basic thing. Like you just

00:05:18.840 mentioned that this is a really, especially among kids, this is a phenomenon that is affecting girls 0.90

00:05:26.140 the most. Um, I had always thought of it as a primarily male phenomenon. So can you talk,

00:05:33.460 you mentioned you want to explore why girls are so susceptible. If you could summarize why that is, 0.93

00:05:38.740 I mean, what, why are they so susceptible? Teenage girls in mental health distress, anxiety,

00:05:44.640 depression, and other, you know, anything from borderline personality disorder to other,

00:05:48.380 um, you know, psychological struggles have always been susceptible to peer contagion.

00:05:52.980 They've always been susceptible to the idea that there's something really wrong with them.

00:05:57.380 And that if they just lose enough weight or, you know, um, if they get control of these multiple

00:06:04.800 personalities, or, I mean, there's a, you know, they, they come up with these explanations.

00:06:09.680 Sometimes they're introduced from by therapists. In this case, it's all over the culture and the,

00:06:14.680 and, and social media and the ideas, they look to the culture to figure out what's

00:06:18.380 wrong with them. And today the, the answer that they're landing on is, Oh, I know what the problem

00:06:24.640 is. I'm supposed to be a boy. And the moment a young person says that a young woman says that

00:06:29.020 she goes from a lonely teenager who may struggle to find friends to someone who is celebrated in

00:06:35.540 her school, congratulated by her therapist and whose doctor can't wait to start her on a course of

00:06:41.800 hormones. So this is kind of, uh, we're taking these universal feelings that, that all teenagers

00:06:48.620 experience, especially girls. And what we have now is they're being presented with a, with a handy

00:06:54.400 kind of framework for understanding those feelings. And that's what brings them to transgenderism,

00:06:59.520 basically. That's right. I mean, imagine, you know, a young woman who, you know, in a prior era would

00:07:04.280 have, who would be anorexic and be convinced that if she just lost enough weight, everything would be 1.00

00:07:09.660 better. It's very, you know, they, they latch onto the, because they are in real pain. This does not

00:07:15.240 discount their pain. We know that rates are, are very high of anxiety, depression, self-harm for this

00:07:21.120 generation. And they're in, they're in a lot of pain and they looked, you know, psychological pain

00:07:26.820 is very hard to explain to someone in a way that gets you noticed. And in a way that gets you,

00:07:31.680 you know, um, um, interest in help and what they want, they, they want the affection,

00:07:37.800 they want the celebration and they want the attention and one way to frame it so that they

00:07:43.000 get those things, um, which, which I think they do need, they do need attention. They do need

00:07:48.200 compassion, but the way that they're framing it is, is not necessarily accurate. In fact,

00:07:52.880 very often I think it's inaccurate that what they, what they have is not real typical gender dysphoria.

00:07:59.260 That's, that's what gets me when I, when I listened to, uh, people talk, whether it's kids or even

00:08:04.460 adults, oftentimes talking about their discovery that they're another gender and you hear things

00:08:11.380 like, well, I, I didn't feel comfortable in my body. Um, I, I knew, I just knew that I was different

00:08:16.500 and those kinds of things. And I always think, well, yeah, but that's, that's a, that's a pretty

00:08:21.320 universal, it's real and it's a, it's a serious thing and it's not to discount it, but at the same

00:08:25.660 time, these also sound like pretty universal human feelings. I, I wonder if there's any person on earth

00:08:32.040 who's never felt, uh, uncomfortable in their body or like they didn't fit in, but now we just have

00:08:36.980 this framework. Do you think we're at the point now where for kids it's, it's looked down upon

00:08:44.020 in their peer groups to be just sort of a normal person who identifies as the sex they were born

00:08:49.840 with? We're at the point now where that's even where it's, it's, you, you would be embarrassed

00:08:54.180 to be a quote unquote cisgender as a kid. So parents tell me that all the time. I see that all the

00:08:59.360 time you see parents, you know, in, in de-transitioners, young women who regretted their

00:09:03.320 transition, talk about that all the time. Um, on social media, these young women are constantly 0.99

00:09:08.680 coached in, you know, gender ideology and told that, oh, if you feel uncomfortable, every woman

00:09:15.260 goes through a period around puberty of feeling uncomfortable in her body and she's taught and,

00:09:20.160 and they spend tremendous amount of times on social time on social media. They're taught that

00:09:24.280 that feeling means you're transgender at a time when it's very uncool to be a straight girl 1.00

00:09:29.220 who is cisgender, you know, you know, comfortable in her body at all. So the, the, the number of 0.93

00:09:34.740 forces pushing on her to declare this identity or a lot. And the one, as soon as she declares a trans 0.94

00:09:41.100 identity or non-binary identity, um, the next question is, oh yeah. Okay. Let's prove it. When are 0.89

00:09:46.780 you going to start with surgeries and hormones? So how is this happening so quickly? That's one

00:09:52.720 question I get a lot. I don't feel like I have a really sufficient answer for it, but cause I,

00:09:58.040 you know, I was in high school in the 2000, 2004. And, uh, I think that wasn't all that long ago.

00:10:05.020 And I, trans, transgenderism as a concept existed. I think I heard of it a few times. I didn't have

00:10:10.900 anyone in my school that identified that way. Um, and we've gone from that to in a matter of a

00:10:17.260 couple decades. Now it's, we're at a point now where if you're, if you, if you identify as just

00:10:23.220 quote unquote cisgender, it's strange. So this is a rapid, extreme change in our culture. How did it 0.74

00:10:31.040 happen so quickly? Do you think? Well, the activists were able to corrupt many institutions.

00:10:36.940 So the activists, and they are extremely, extremely aggressive, were able to corrupt both the public

00:10:43.020 school system and infiltrate it with gender ideology, which teaches kids in California. 1.00

00:10:48.000 They start at age five, teaching them that only, you know, your true gender, um, not, you know,

00:10:54.100 not the doctor, the doctor assigned your gender randomly, but only knew, you know, your real one.

00:10:58.540 And you, if you declare it here, it's a safe space. We don't, we don't have to tell your parents.

00:11:02.820 So that was one force, but also the therapists were put under tremendous pressure to go along with

00:11:09.740 this. We have conversion therapy bands in 20 States in America now, which say that if you,

00:11:15.640 if a therapist tries to convert you out of your supposed gender identity, in other words,

00:11:20.800 to translate, if a gender, if a therapist actually just tries to get you comfortable in your body and

00:11:25.480 say, wait a second, I know you say your problem is that you're, you were born into this body, but

00:11:29.480 what about the other things we haven't explored? Um, the, the therapist is at risk of losing their

00:11:34.900 license. Um, and then when I looked into the medical organizations, nearly all of them had

00:11:39.780 adoptive affirmative care, which means it's their, now their job of doctors to rubber stamp the 0.96

00:11:45.460 patient's self-diagnosis when it comes to this one diagnosis, gender dysphoria.

00:11:50.660 So with the affirmative care laws and how many States did you say had those?

00:11:54.860 20 States have conversion therapy bands.

00:11:57.140 Okay. So conversion therapy is if you, if you help a boy remain a boy, then you are converting him 0.50

00:12:04.060 into what he already is, which makes a lot of sense. But is it, so the affirmative care. So if a,

00:12:11.040 if a child comes into the counselor and says they experience, they're experiencing confusion about

00:12:16.700 their gender or discomfort, the therapist is not allowed to explore any other cause for that

00:12:24.080 confusion or discomfort. They have to, they have to immediately jump to gender dysphoria and 0.99

00:12:29.920 transgenderism. Is that, is that what it is? Well, that's effectively what affirmative care 0.76

00:12:34.660 pressures them to do. And if they go against that, they are at risk of losing their license.

00:12:39.440 They could easily be accused of running afoul of the standard, which is don't, don't try to convert 0.99

00:12:45.200 a child into the, into being cisgender. Um, obviously this grew out of the anti-homosexuality

00:12:52.580 conversion, um, you know, process, you know, attempts that were, you know, historically could

00:12:58.620 be quite grisly. Um, and so they passed these laws and people unthinkingly went along with them,

00:13:04.760 even though they had inserted gender identity language into the bands. Now, gender dysphoria

00:13:10.360 historically was always treated holistically. It was always treated with, wait a second. I know you

00:13:16.500 think your problem is gender, but let's talk about how you arrived at that. Why don't you want to be a 0.99

00:13:21.580 boy? I mean, that's the kind of exploration that therapy really required. Um, now it's prohibited.

00:13:27.660 Yeah. I don't, I don't have a, I confess, I don't have a lot of experience with therapy,

00:13:30.540 but I had always thought of therapy as sort of the opposite of affirming because you're,

00:13:34.440 you're going in there with, uh, with feelings or, or psychological troubles that you don't want

00:13:39.640 to affirm. Do you want to be, you want to be freed of them? That's what I always thought of it as.

00:13:43.100 Right. And same thing with doctors. You never started out with the conclusion today. We start with

00:13:48.740 the conclusion you have gender dysphoria. And then the question is when do we start the medication?

00:13:53.660 And speaking of doctors. So I think a lot of people don't, um, a lot of people don't realize

00:14:00.600 how bad the medical part of this is for kids, a quote unquote medical. So how does that work? You've

00:14:08.360 got a 13 year old kid diagnosed with gender dysphoria. Um, and they're put on the medical track.

00:14:16.560 How does that, how does that play out? And do we, do we get to the point where they're doing actual

00:14:20.900 surgeries potentially while the child is still a child, still a minor? So it depends if they have

00:14:27.080 parental permission and it depends on the state. So yes, they absolutely do it on minors, the 0.80

00:14:33.300 surgeries, um, with parental permission, um, whether they can do it without parental permission

00:14:37.800 varies by state. Um, but, but, you know, this is an area in which unfortunately a lot of very good

00:14:45.120 doctors who are really uncomfortable with these treatments have bowed out and they bowed out

00:14:50.520 because they know, listen, I don't want to do this. Um, you know, this is, we're really pushing

00:14:56.400 kids to something they may, they are very likely to regret. So the best doctors very often bow out of

00:15:01.760 even doing this kind of medicine. And instead you have the most aggressive activist doctors who can't

00:15:07.720 wait to make the really considerable remuneration that it offers.

00:15:12.820 Do you know how young potentially the surgeries are happening? I mean, are they happening 16,

00:15:20.020 15, younger than that?

00:15:21.580 Well, in California, 13 with parental permission, 13.

00:15:25.440 Um, yeah, 13 year old girls have been, you know, have had double mastectomies. Um, you know,

00:15:31.640 without parental permission, you know, you can get it in, in Oregon, the state, you know,

00:15:36.260 the state will cover it and allow it at 15, but it varies by state.

00:15:41.280 Have you talked to any parent? You talked to a lot of parents in the book. I don't remember a

00:15:44.280 parent like this though. Have you talked to a parent that actually gave their 13 year old

00:15:47.920 permission to have her breasts cut off? Have you talked to any parents like that? 0.96

00:15:51.100 No, I talked to parents who were planning to do that, who were planning to go along with it.

00:15:57.080 At that young of an age?

00:15:59.180 Had that yet. Um, well, uh, parents, in one case it was a boy. So it was planning to start on the

00:16:06.440 blockers. Um, you know, I talked to parents who are, you know, considering or planning to go on

00:16:12.320 blockers, but I didn't talk to anyone who had agreed to remove, uh, the girl's breasts. 1.00

00:16:17.420 So let's stay on the parents for a minute. Um, and you, you talk a lot about, you have a whole

00:16:23.720 parent, you have a chapter on parents and then of course they're featured prominently throughout

00:16:28.340 because they're a big part of the story. Uh, you highlight many parents who are blindsided by

00:16:33.920 their child's trans identification and which is a really tragic situation those parents are in. I

00:16:38.620 can't imagine what it's like for them. Um, and I think that, that probably as you, as you explore in

00:16:45.580 the book that probably happens frequently with adolescents who go this route because they pick

00:16:48.960 up this stuff in school or YouTube and then all of a sudden they're blindsiding the kids. But my

00:16:52.800 view is that, uh, young children, you know, five, six, seven, or younger than that who quote come out

00:16:57.920 as trans. My, my assumption is that like in a hundred percent of those cases that was pushed on

00:17:04.900 them by the parents, because I don't see how a kid could go that route at that young of an age

00:17:10.180 without the parent being very much involved in it. Um, do you think I'm being unfair to the

00:17:14.420 parents with, with that assumption? I mean, what, what role do you think the parents play exactly

00:17:17.780 here? So I think there are a few and a few different parts, um, or a few different cases

00:17:24.160 to consider. So we know that kids have had gender dysphoria. We have a very long diagnostic history.

00:17:30.020 So are, have there been kids who said, no mommy, I'm not a boy. I'm a girl from a very young age.

00:17:35.240 Yes. There have been those kids without parent parents necessarily pushing it. Yes, there have,

00:17:40.360 um, now the transgender identity. Okay. That, that is something that is typically,

00:17:47.200 and we know that it's introduced by the culture and that's not something we ever did with kids

00:17:52.800 before. I mean, they might've, you know, had some gender confusion about who they really were,

00:17:58.120 but we didn't validate it immediately. Today it's getting validated all over the place. Um,

00:18:03.600 and it is also true that I've interviewed parents who say that their kid is transgender and it is

00:18:09.680 true that when you ask them, Oh no, he always wore, you know, he always loved nail polish,

00:18:14.600 you know, from the age four, when you ask, well, how did he get the nail polish? You know,

00:18:19.900 very often the parents did supply it. Right. And, and why should liking nail polish be an indication

00:18:27.620 of anything other than the kid thinks that that looks cool, that you have paint on your hands.

00:18:32.620 I mean, this is one of the, and I can never get a straight answer on this, but

00:18:36.040 when, when, when a, when a five-year-old boy, let's say says, I'm a girl,

00:18:41.040 what is that statement even supposed to mean? Given that the five-year-old boy and I have

00:18:47.100 four kids, um, they have no idea what a girl even is. They, that, that, that, it seems to me that

00:18:54.220 when a, if a boy makes that statement, what he's really saying is, if he's saying anything,

00:18:57.880 what he's really saying is something like, um, you know, I see the dollhouse that my sister's

00:19:04.160 playing with and I think it's cool and I want to play with it too. Why does it have to be anything

00:19:08.280 more significant than that? And I can never get a straight answer on that.

00:19:11.380 So when you interview, as I have like the best gender therapists, um, who, so many of whom have

00:19:17.480 been basically run out of town. I mean, meaning like giants in the field of gender dysphoria have 0.95

00:19:22.260 been canceled by the activists, but when you interview men like Ken Zucker or Ray Blanchard,

00:19:27.280 um, you know, Ken used to work with children and he would absolutely push back and explore,

00:19:33.920 where did you get that idea? Oh, you know, let's talk about it because, you know, he was the

00:19:40.160 therapist. He didn't think the child was some sort of profit, but today these young children are

00:19:44.980 treated as profits. The moment that they, um, you know, declare they have, they are uncomfortable

00:19:50.200 in their bodies or in their gender. They're treated as profits. And then the question just

00:19:53.800 begins what, you know, the next question is just, when do we start? Right now? I, uh, I did want to

00:19:59.780 get to two of these articles that you've written. Um, the first for the city journal is headline when

00:20:05.940 the state comes for your kids and it's a bone chilling stuff, but I wanted to let you summarize

00:20:12.340 it because you'll do a better job than me. Can you just tell us what, what that piece is about?

00:20:16.040 And what do you mean the state coming for your kid? So I, I looked at the laws of Washington,

00:20:23.020 Oregon, and California, because I was getting calls from parents that their custody was being

00:20:27.760 threatened if they didn't go along with the idea that their troubled teens were transgender.

00:20:33.280 And I looked at both what the laws allowed in, um, in many cases really allow not only in, well,

00:20:41.480 to take the case of Washington, a 13 year old has total control of his or her mental health care,

00:20:47.560 um, including, and this includes gender affirming care and, um, uh, insurers are blocked from even

00:20:56.820 sharing information or medical care with, uh, the parents. So kids of 13 and up have total control

00:21:05.360 over their own mental health care. Parents don't even get to know about it. They're not even notified

00:21:10.160 by the insurers. They're not allowed to be notified by doctors. And what you had was a

00:21:14.320 situation. And there are these safe houses all over, which is very, which are very hard to extricate

00:21:19.440 your kid from, um, if they've shown up at. So we had this, we had, I kept getting calls that people

00:21:25.740 were losing their kids to the system who weren't bad parents. In fact, they were loving parents

00:21:31.220 desperate to get their kids, um, back. The only, the only thing they had done wrong was that they had

00:21:36.920 failed to, um, they, they had, they had declined to affirm the kid's new, you know, gender identity

00:21:44.000 and someone in the state found out about that. Um, that's, I mean, it's horrific. How, how widespread

00:21:53.740 is that? Would you, would you consider these cases so far to be extreme exceptions or is this

00:21:59.460 really becoming an endemic problem?

00:22:01.840 I think it's increasingly an endemic problem. I'll tell you why. First of all, a lot of the

00:22:06.780 parents who called me couldn't even talk. I mean, I, I, I guess I, I profiled five or six for the

00:22:12.360 article I wrote, but I was contacted by many others who said, I'm so sorry. You can't, this is, you know,

00:22:17.640 we can't, I can't tell you anything more about this because there's an ongoing case right now.

00:22:22.100 The number of parents, there are a lot of parents in court right now fighting to get their kids back

00:22:26.260 who won't talk because they're terrified. There are parents who have lost custody, who are afraid

00:22:31.280 that if they, if they ever, you know, say anything to me that their kid will find out and then the

00:22:35.860 kid will never talk to them again. So I think it's much more widespread than I was even able to include

00:22:40.660 in the article, but you're also seeing, you know, a generation of extremely woke, um, not only social

00:22:48.860 workers, therapists, but increasingly, you know, we're going to see doc doctors. We are, we already see

00:22:55.700 woke doctors. We're also going to see woke judges, um, as these young woke, um, people who are real

00:23:02.020 gender ideologues start becoming appointed judges. And I think this is a problem that you see across

00:23:08.280 the whole, the whole landscape here. Um, when we talk about how widespread the problem is

00:23:13.280 that in so many of these areas, a lot of people affected by it, can't talk about it or are afraid to

00:23:21.560 talk about it because of the professional repercussions. And another great example of that, uh, the other

00:23:27.540 article you wrote for wall street journal about in the situation in women's prisons, where men are

00:23:33.500 being, um, are being sent into women's prisons. And there's certainly a place where these, these women 1.00

00:23:40.000 have no voice. Um, and they, they have no real way, unless someone like you comes along, they have no way

00:23:45.100 to get their story out there. So can you talk about that, uh, a little bit? These, these are men who,

00:23:50.760 if I understand correctly, and I guess it's, it depends on the state a little bit, but they don't

00:23:55.820 have to have surgery or anything, right? They, uh, not that that even would make it okay, but they

00:24:00.100 don't have to have surgery or anything, right? These, these are, these are just men who are being put in 0.85

00:24:02.660 women's prisons because they declare that they feel like women. Yeah. And, and they, so I talked to

00:24:09.220 the women of the Chowchilla prison, which is the highest security. It's technically called the 0.97

00:24:13.520 central California, uh, correctional facility colloquially known as the Chowchilla prison. And this is the

00:24:19.820 highest security women's prison in the state of California. These women are tough women, 1.00

00:24:23.800 but they are terrified because now a new law allows men, biological men to transfer in.

00:24:28.980 All they need to do is declare a, uh, female identity. No surgery or hormones are required 0.99

00:24:34.600 for them to become eligible for transfer. And the reason, and that we have these laws in a few

00:24:39.520 States. Now, Washington, um, has the same policy. A woman was raped by one of the biological men who was 0.85

00:24:45.060 placed in her prison. Um, I've been in, you know, um, sorry, there, there have even been serial rapists 0.95

00:24:51.360 who are declared a female identity and were put in women's prison in the state of Washington. 0.99

00:24:55.960 And the problem is even more serious than, and dire than I, you know, than I was able to convey

00:25:02.600 because in the future, as these laws, you know, continue to exist, um, right now, the men are

00:25:10.320 transferring into women's prison from men's prison so we can track them. But, you know, in laws like 1.00

00:25:16.900 Washington, where you can just change your birth certificate and in California, where you go into

00:25:22.560 the system now as a female, um, it will be extremely difficult for reporters to even be able to track 1.00

00:25:29.560 who, who these men were. It will look like women on women violence when they rape and assault the 1.00

00:25:36.140 female inmates. And part of the problem, right, is that in women, women's prisons, a lot of them 1.00

00:25:41.360 anyway, they don't, they don't segregate based on the severity of crime as strictly as they do in

00:25:45.900 men's prisons. Cause there isn't as much violence to begin with until you start putting the men in

00:25:49.920 there. Um, so you could have, you know, a man convicted of murder in there with women who, what,

00:25:56.760 you know, shoplifted or something, right? Well, yeah. I mean, one thing that I learned from the

00:26:02.000 women prisoners, which I didn't know, and I was able to corroborate was that a lot of, not only 1.00

00:26:07.060 are a huge number of female prisoners, uh, abuse survivors, sexual abuse survivors, but very often

00:26:13.840 when they committed crimes and they committed, a lot of these women committed very serious crimes. 1.00

00:26:18.460 They did it at the, at the behest of a scary man they were involved with. So, um, these are women 0.91

00:26:25.780 who are, have been pushed around by men their whole lives. Um, and, um, are, even though, you

00:26:31.940 know, these are very tough women, um, the men transferring in the men, male convicts are, are

00:26:38.380 quite, quite scary. Um, they're huge. Often they are extremely strong and they can easily overpower

00:26:45.900 them. And these women are terrified. You mentioned, uh, the one case of a woman who was raped by a male

00:26:52.640 prisoner sent, sent in there. Are you aware of any other cases? Cause it strikes me that this

00:26:57.320 is probably happening a lot, just given what, what we're doing here, the, how we're mixing things

00:27:03.160 together. Um, but it also strikes me that we would, we would never find out about it. So are you aware

00:27:09.380 of any other cases, uh, like that? It's, it's, I am not. And I'll tell you why it's very complicated

00:27:16.340 because you hear even from the women that the men who are in there can very often, even if there's a

00:27:22.180 sexual relationship, it's hard to tell if it's consensual. And the reason is, is the women are 1.00

00:27:26.720 trapped in small cells with them. So the women will, in some cases will say that the, it is

00:27:32.820 consensual. Um, but, but a lot of the, you know, other prisoners disbelieve that, um, given how much,

00:27:39.600 much stronger the men are and how trapped the women feel. And, and remember these, these cells, 0.52

00:27:45.700 women are the women's cells are, everyone is just together. There aren't, it's you don't, 1.00

00:27:51.460 because women are less violent. They're not set up to keep people separate or to safeguard women 0.99

00:27:55.920 from each other. So the men who enter really have free reign. Uh, one other thing on this,

00:28:02.140 this seems to me, well, the, the whole thing really, but especially when it comes to women's

00:28:05.680 prisons, you've got a real women's rights issue here. Has there been, um, any interest among the

00:28:11.900 me too crowd of left-wing feminists at all? Have they shown any interest in this story and wanted to 1.00

00:28:17.520 follow up on it or anything like that? No, um, women, you know, feminist groups today. I mean, 0.88

00:28:24.620 I think just this week, the national organization of women declared that trans women are women

00:28:30.140 and are to be treated as such. Um, feminist organizations in general in America have completely 1.00

00:28:35.340 betrayed women. They can't wait to give away women's rights. Um, and they couldn't care less 1.00

00:28:41.720 about, uh, the female prisoners who are not only a very vulnerable population, they have no political 0.98

00:28:47.640 crap clout. So no one's looking out for them. Democratic politicians don't care by and large 0.86

00:28:52.740 Republicans don't either. They don't vote. Um, so there's no natural constituency. You, you just have

00:28:58.860 to have something of a conscience to care about what happens to these women. And there aren't a lot 0.99

00:29:03.620 of people with those walking around these days. Uh, so last question, going full circle here,

00:29:07.960 uh, back to your book out in paperback this week. Uh, you have, you have a chapter in the end on,

00:29:14.260 on, uh, the way back. And I have to be honest, I don't, I'm, I'm a bit cynical, which is an

00:29:20.260 understatement, but I don't really see a way back from this culturally. Uh, but you do. So, so what is

00:29:26.160 the way back? I do with this because, you know, this is just really just a, a, a blizzard of lies.

00:29:35.340 And if we can call a lot of them out, I do think we can get through this. Um, one of the things to,

00:29:42.420 to protect your kids from is, well, first of all, is to be aware of the lies. So for instance,

00:29:46.580 I was just speaking to a woman the other day who said, Oh, I called my daughter's school to make

00:29:50.440 sure there's no sex education, you know, that involves Jen, uh, to, for the five-year-olds. 0.85

00:29:56.140 And I explained in the book how California hid gender orient, gender identity, um, education

00:30:02.120 in the SOGI curriculum, which is not part of sex ed. It's part of the anti-bullying curriculum.

00:30:07.700 So there's a lot of that really, there's a lot of duplicity around this. Um, but I think just as

00:30:13.140 we're becoming aware of the critical race theory in the schools, you know, the more we're aware of

00:30:17.440 the gender ideology in the schools, the more we can demand that this, this madness be stopped. 1.00

00:30:22.080 There's no reason to indoctrinate an entire student population and gender confusion. Um, you know, 0.88

00:30:28.140 you can throw, you can show compassion to trans gender identified kids without doing that. And

00:30:33.240 I, and we need to demand it. But another thing is social media. We got to get the kids off the social

00:30:38.520 media. This is just so obvious. I know it's hard, but you're talking about skyrocketing rates of

00:30:44.620 anxiety, depression, self-harm. These kids are showing up at the hospitals, you know, for,

00:30:49.500 for attempted suicide younger than we've ever seen before. And, and the stakes are just too high.

00:30:55.000 Yeah. Yeah. I, uh, it certainly has to begin at a minimum with, uh, with reclaiming your,

00:31:03.400 your child's attention rather than letting, you know, YouTube influencers and so on, um,

00:31:08.860 guide them through life. So maybe there is, maybe there is a little bit of hope and I appreciate

00:31:13.560 that you could at least end on, end on that note. Again, the book is, uh, is irreversible damage,

00:31:19.380 the transgender craze seducing our daughter, which is out in paperback this week. Definitely pick up 1.00

00:31:22.720 the book, Abigail Schreier. Thanks a lot for joining us and for the conversation. I appreciate it.

00:31:27.060 Thank you.

00:31:27.680 Thank you.

The Matt Walsh Show - July 06, 2021

The Transgender Craze Seducing America： An Interview With Author Abigail Shrier

Episode Stats

Summary

Transcript