The Megyn Kelly Show - 60 Minutes' Failures, Michelle Obama's New Complaints, and Abrego Garcia Truth, with Glenn Greenwald and Will Chamberlain

00:00:00.360 Welcome to The Megyn Kelly Show, live on Sirius XM Channel 111 every weekday at New East.

00:00:11.720 Hey everyone, I'm Megyn Kelly. Welcome to The Megyn Kelly Show.

00:00:15.640 60 Minutes is in serious turmoil, thanks to its executive producer Bill Owens quitting and publicly throwing a temper tantrum.

00:00:26.080 What happened? Oh, buckle up.

00:00:28.300 On Tuesday, the EP of six years, but only the third ever to hold that post in nearly six decades at 60, said he would be resigning from the Sunday news program, suggesting he felt the network was encroaching too much on his editorial calls.

00:00:45.180 This could not be tolerated at the vaunted 60 Minutes you see, which is entirely unbiased and uninfluenced by anything other than the facts.

00:00:53.180 All right? You may not know that, but it's true. Just ask them.

00:00:57.240 Mr. Owens and others argue that the show has had total independence from Network Brass for the show's 57 years on the air, and that suddenly that was changing.

00:01:08.300 Under Don Hewitt, the original EP, they said, hey, we had independence and it worked out pretty well.

00:01:15.740 He was there for almost 60 years. It's crazy the number of years he was there.

00:01:20.760 Under Jeff Fager, he was there for the next 14, less so.

00:01:25.360 And under Mr. Owens, 60 Minutes has all but lost its mind, shilling for progressives.

00:01:31.440 And I, for one, am thrilled to see him go.

00:01:34.140 Not that I think this broadcast, with its current staff, is salvageable.

00:01:38.120 I'm just in favor of dismantling this current version of the show, which would appropriately fit in any hour of MSNBC primetime.

00:01:46.840 The latest meltdown started when Donald Trump filed a $10 billion lawsuit against CBS and its parent company, Paramount,

00:01:55.340 accusing 60 Minutes of unlawful and illegal behavior in what he said was its deceptive editing of the Kamala Harris interview before this last election.

00:02:04.500 You remember they took her word salad answer about Netanyahu and they siphoned it down to make her sound more cogent.

00:02:10.760 We caught it because they put out the wrong version of it when they were teasing the interview,

00:02:15.860 and then they played a different version when she actually appeared.

00:02:18.980 Most legal analysts, including this one, do not see much of any merit in that lawsuit.

00:02:23.560 But Trump has used it as a cudgel over Paramount, whose owner, Sherry Redstone, is trying to sell the company right now to Skydance.

00:02:31.260 And that sale is going to need government approval.

00:02:34.040 Trump has long complained about 60 Minutes being unfair to him and biased in favor of Democrats.

00:02:39.560 And on that, he is 100% correct.

00:02:44.120 Under Jeff Fager, yes, definitely, but especially under Bill Owens.

00:02:50.200 But before we get to Owens, let's take a quick look back at the Fager years and how 60 treated Barack Obama.

00:02:59.160 You don't have any doubts that you're ready?

00:03:01.300 No.

00:03:02.460 Where do you get all this confidence?

00:03:05.120 How are you finding the job?

00:03:06.900 What's the most frustrating part of the job?

00:03:08.540 Do you take a day off?

00:03:10.500 Have you gotten lost in here yet?

00:03:11.920 Do you see some hope?

00:03:13.300 Do you think that things are going to get better?

00:03:15.820 Do you think that you might have the unemployment rate down to 8% by the time the election rolls around?

00:03:21.540 This is the most aggressive speech I've seen you give in a while.

00:03:24.500 What changed?

00:03:25.800 Why do you think you'd be a good president?

00:03:27.380 Steve asked and answered.

00:03:28.720 Let's move on.

00:03:29.240 I mean, honestly, we almost added the little hearts.

00:03:33.840 The emojis coming out of Steve Croft in his head for that series of hard-hitting interviewers.

00:03:41.720 Not exactly murderer's row, is it, like back in the Mike Wallace years.

00:03:46.800 Who could forget this absurdity?

00:03:49.380 This was under Bill Owens when Leslie Stahl interviewed Donald Trump in October 2020,

00:03:57.340 just before his re-election battle against Joe Biden after the Hunter Biden laptop had come out.

00:04:05.280 I think it's one of the biggest scandals I've ever seen, and you don't cover it.

00:04:10.660 You want to talk about it?

00:04:12.240 Well, because it can't be verified.

00:04:13.620 You want to talk about insignificant things.

00:04:15.880 I'm telling you.

00:04:16.740 Of course it can be verified.

00:04:18.300 Excuse me.

00:04:18.920 They found the laptop.

00:04:20.240 Leslie, Leslie.

00:04:21.180 It can't be verified.

00:04:22.340 What can be verified?

00:04:23.640 The laptop.

00:04:24.660 Why do you say that?

00:04:25.680 Because it can't be verified.

00:04:25.920 Even the family hasn't.

00:04:27.800 The family on the laptop, he's gone into hiding.

00:04:32.760 For five days, he's gone into hiding.

00:04:35.380 He's preparing for your debate.

00:04:36.980 Oh, it's taken him five days to prepare.

00:04:38.720 I doubt it.

00:04:40.180 We only know that that exchange took place because Trump taped it himself,

00:04:44.900 not trusting 60 to air his full grievance.

00:04:47.680 And indeed, he was right, and he released it.

00:04:50.160 Same time frame, October 2020, 60 took us inside the Lincoln Project's campaign against

00:04:56.120 President Trump.

00:04:56.960 And did they do a hard-hitting expose on the rabidly anti-Trump grifters?

00:05:02.760 Who are loathed by virtually all Republicans and accomplished little more than successfully

00:05:08.020 lining their own pockets?

00:05:10.260 Let's see.

00:05:11.980 These buccaneers have made a name for themselves with malicious attack ads,

00:05:16.980 churning out new ones almost daily, most released cost-free on social media.

00:05:23.400 John Weaver feels it's the party that's betrayed him.

00:05:26.640 I mean, look, Leslie, we've gone from caring about character, rule of law, defending the

00:05:32.800 Constitution, a cogent national security policy, free trade.

00:05:37.560 Where are all those issues?

00:05:39.480 Imagine if you travel the country for 30 years fighting for Republican principles,

00:05:45.980 and you learn it was all a lie.

00:05:47.940 No one cares about all the issues that we fought for.

00:05:50.280 How painful is it for you to turn against the Republican Party?

00:05:56.880 Do you ever sit around and talk about your repudiating your life in a way?

00:06:03.360 How painful is it, John Weaver, my little buccaneer?

00:06:07.400 By the way, Google John Weaver Lincoln Project and see what other questions Leslie Stahl could

00:06:13.540 have asked if 60 had actually done some investigative reporting about that group.

00:06:17.620 After the 2020 election, the biggest story in the nation was, of course, Mr. Trump's claims

00:06:22.820 of voter fraud, especially in places like Pennsylvania, where Democrats made changes to

00:06:28.860 voting laws late in the process, to voting procedures late in the process, not approved

00:06:34.920 by the lawmakers, not approved by the state legislature.

00:06:38.340 And those changes allowed ballots to arrive after election day to count.

00:06:43.400 They allowed less secure ballot drop boxes and more.

00:06:46.880 Did 60 take an in-depth, fair and balanced look at that?

00:06:52.380 As COVID spiked again, vote-by-mail ballots flooded tabulation centers.

00:06:57.900 Other ballots jammed street-side drop boxes or were hand-delivered to registrars and city

00:07:02.880 clerks.

00:07:04.080 What could have been chaos instead became an exercise in democracy.

00:07:09.840 Oh, okay.

00:07:11.820 Democracy in action.

00:07:13.240 That's all it was, folks.

00:07:14.220 That case went all the way up to the U.S. Supreme Court, I mean, and the Pennsylvania Supreme

00:07:18.820 Court.

00:07:19.520 And fine, it was not resolved in President Trump's favor.

00:07:22.140 We know that.

00:07:22.720 But it was just democracy.

00:07:24.460 That's all.

00:07:25.080 No more.

00:07:25.780 Not really a valid legal battle.

00:07:28.180 Joe Biden was, of course, sworn in as president, as you know, in 2020.

00:07:31.320 And did 60 spend the next four years digging into the president's mental acuity with in-depth

00:07:37.520 60 Minutes pieces?

00:07:38.560 Oh, they asked a question or two along the way, but no.

00:07:41.940 Or his opening of the southern border, allowing more than 10 million illegals to flood the

00:07:47.120 country.

00:07:47.540 No.

00:07:48.340 Or how about the COVID overreaches under that president?

00:07:51.860 Absolutely not.

00:07:52.940 It appears they had a different focus.

00:07:55.160 We wanted to ask Governor DeSantis about the deal, but he declined our request for an

00:08:02.140 interview.

00:08:02.800 We caught up with them south of Orlando.

00:08:05.460 Publix, as you know, donated $100,000 to your campaign, and then you rewarded them with

00:08:11.520 the exclusive rights to distribute the vaccination in Palm Beach.

00:08:14.720 So first of all, what you're saying is wrong.

00:08:16.220 How is that not pay to play?

00:08:17.400 That's a fake narrative.

00:08:18.840 I met with the county mayor.

00:08:20.140 I met with the administrator.

00:08:21.040 I met with all the folks at Palm Beach County, and I said, here's some of the options.

00:08:25.380 We can do more drive-through sites.

00:08:27.020 We can give more to hospitals.

00:08:28.600 We can do the Publix.

00:08:30.040 And they said, we think that would be the easiest thing for our residents.

00:08:33.280 But Melissa McKinlay, the county commissioner in the Glades, told us the governor never met

00:08:38.560 with her about the Publix deal.

00:08:40.400 The criticism is that it's pay to play, Governor.

00:08:42.980 It's wrong.

00:08:43.120 It's wrong.

00:08:43.680 It's a fake narrative.

00:08:45.020 I just disabused you of the narrative, and you don't care about the facts because obviously

00:08:49.500 I laid it out for you in a way that is irrefutable.

00:08:52.400 And so it's clearly not.

00:08:53.980 Isn't there the nearest public service is 30 miles away?

00:08:55.140 No, no, no.

00:08:55.820 You're wrong.

00:08:56.420 You're wrong.

00:08:56.920 You're wrong.

00:08:57.220 Yes, sir.

00:08:57.520 That's actually a fact.

00:09:00.480 Obviously fearing that Ron DeSantis might become the eventual Republican nominee,

00:09:04.840 in April 2021, 60 aired a disgustingly misleading report by Sharon Alfonsi, suggesting DeSantis

00:09:13.220 was guilty of a pay-for-play campaign contribution scheme by which he offered the COVID vaccination

00:09:18.720 shots at Publix supermarkets as some sort of payback to a grocery store chain that had

00:09:25.060 donated to his campaign.

00:09:26.960 60 showed a bit of that brief exchange between Alfonsi and Governor DeSantis in which he offered

00:09:33.060 what looked like a rather lame response to her tough questions and just happened to leave

00:09:38.780 on the editing room floor the bulk of his extremely substantive answer to every point she raised

00:09:46.380 in which he utterly dismantled her accusations.

00:09:50.560 Even some Florida Democrats, after they saw the piece, lashed out, saying they had told 60 Minutes

00:09:57.540 the public story was, quote, bullshit, but that the producers did not seem to care.

00:10:04.620 It wasn't just political hits on candidates either.

00:10:08.100 Take a look at the show's coverage of, say, climate change.

00:10:12.300 This one's from January 2023.

00:10:15.260 1970, the planet's three and a half billion people were sustainable.

00:10:19.720 But on this New Year's Day, the population is eight billion.

00:10:25.260 Today, wild plants and animals are running out of places to live.

00:10:30.400 The scientists you're about to meet say the Earth is suffering a crisis of mass extinction

00:10:36.560 on a scale unseen since the dinosaurs.

00:10:40.000 A World Wildlife Fund study says that in the past 50 years,

00:10:44.640 the abundance of global wildlife has collapsed 69 percent, mostly for the same reason.

00:10:52.820 Too many people, too much consumption and growth mania.

00:10:57.240 I would say it's too much to say that we're killing the planet because the planet's going to be fine.

00:11:03.500 What we're doing is we're killing our way of life.

00:11:06.900 Amazing.

00:11:07.500 No mention of the number of nearly identical warnings just like this that had rained down

00:11:15.820 upon the populace for years, decades prior to this report with not a scintilla of accuracy.

00:11:24.680 None of the climate change doomsday predictions has come true.

00:11:30.640 Somehow they forgot that in the piece.

00:11:32.780 Or how about this one?

00:11:33.520 More recently on free speech in Germany, where people are literally being arrested for saying

00:11:38.480 things deemed, quote, offensive online, a concept most normal Americans would detest.

00:11:46.580 Not back to Sharon Alfonsi.

00:11:49.020 Not Sharon Alfonsi, though.

00:11:50.860 She appears to love the idea.

00:11:53.100 How many cases are you working on at any time?

00:11:56.220 In our unit, we have about 3,500 cases per year.

00:12:01.580 Nine investigators work out of this office in a converted courthouse.

00:12:06.500 Lau says they get hundreds of tips a month from police, watchdog groups, and victims.

00:12:12.160 You must see a lot of crazy stuff.

00:12:13.680 Yes, yes.

00:12:14.540 The worst of the internet is wrapped in red case folders, stuffed with printouts of online

00:12:20.040 slurs, threats, and hate.

00:12:22.500 This is a criminal offense.

00:12:24.020 What does that say?

00:12:25.500 Kletterpark for Flüchtlinge.

00:12:26.940 So they're suggesting that the refugee children play in the electrical wires.

00:12:31.320 Okay.

00:12:32.060 In this case, the accused had to pay 3,750 euros.

00:12:37.400 Wow.

00:12:38.060 It's not a parking ticket.

00:12:39.140 Yeah, not a parking ticket.

00:12:41.100 It's so fun to laugh about.

00:12:43.040 If you watch the whole piece, it gets even worse.

00:12:44.780 We played for you yesterday, Scott Pelley's attempted takedown of Moms for Liberty when

00:12:51.100 they appeared on the show, who he said had no basis for their totally empty assertions

00:12:56.680 that LGBTQ books and other inappropriate material is intentionally being put in K-5 libraries.

00:13:05.320 So wrong were Moms for Liberty that all nine justices on the U.S. Supreme Court just spent

00:13:11.040 a day immersed in titles promoting LGBTQ material in K-5 classrooms.

00:13:17.220 The very thing Scott Pelley says is not happening.

00:13:19.500 And the only question was not whether, in fact, it does occur and is occurring, but why

00:13:24.080 schools are refusing to allow parents to opt out.

00:13:27.200 Looking forward to your follow-up, Scott Pelley, and your apology.

00:13:30.260 So this, this is what Bill Owens' independence has gotten us.

00:13:37.280 Oh, never before has anyone overseen me.

00:13:41.300 The absolute worst, most biased, hardest leftist version of 60 Minutes that we have ever been

00:13:50.200 subjected to.

00:13:51.260 And yet to hear him and his supporters tell it, Sherry Redstone finally looking at the program

00:13:57.660 and saying, you need to reel it in, people.

00:14:00.860 What she actually did was just appoint a producer to enforce the company's, quote, journalistic

00:14:05.080 standards.

00:14:06.160 This was the breach.

00:14:08.440 This was the straw that broke the back of 60 Minutes at its core.

00:14:16.140 In a leaked goodbye memo to staff, Owens writes, quote, over the past months, it has become

00:14:21.660 clear that I would not be allowed to run the show as I have always run it, to make independent

00:14:26.620 decisions based on what was right for 60 Minutes, right for the audience.

00:14:31.440 So, having defended this show and what we stand for from every angle over time with everything

00:14:40.440 I could, I am stepping aside so the show can move forward.

00:14:47.440 And lest you think I am being overly dramatic, he indeed was reported to have said this and

00:14:52.920 spoken to the newsroom in tears.

00:14:55.320 A gut punch, said a veteran 60 Minutes producer to the New York Times, which broke the story.

00:15:01.820 Profoundly disturbing.

00:15:03.480 Wrong.

00:15:03.940 And then this, as reported by Jake Tapper on CNN, who spoke with some 60 Minutes producers

00:15:11.420 reeling from the news.

00:15:13.840 A second 60 Minutes source tells me, quote, Bill had widespread, has widespread support

00:15:18.920 at 60.

00:15:19.440 He's dedicated his life to CBS on the broadcast.

00:15:21.760 And this was his last act of dedication to it.

00:15:24.600 It's like a guy who has been battling for months against an attack, unable to defend the

00:15:29.240 broadcast from inappropriate corporate influence.

00:15:32.480 He pulls the pin from his last grenade.

00:15:35.440 He sacrificed himself, hoping it might make our corporate overlords wake up and realize

00:15:39.680 they risk destroying what makes 60 Minutes great.

00:15:43.300 It seems clear now, in a quest to sell the company, Sherry Redstone and others will bow

00:15:48.400 to presidential pressure.

00:15:50.560 60 Minutes is one of the crown jewels of American broadcast journalism, and they have no problem

00:15:55.040 crushing it in their race to make a deal and make themselves richer.

00:16:01.840 He's like a Medal of Honor winner.

00:16:04.800 He's jumping on the grenade, sacrificing himself to save the totally independent and unbiased 60

00:16:12.080 from the evil Trump and his influence over Sherry Redstone.

00:16:17.720 Perhaps, friends at 60, the problem lies not with your corporate owner or your president,

00:16:24.060 but with you.

00:16:26.140 Maybe, just maybe, you've lost your way.

00:16:30.300 Perhaps you've gone so far leftward in your programming that it's actually caused the corporate

00:16:35.320 brass to finally notice.

00:16:37.900 Yes, it's happening in the context of a lawsuit and a merger.

00:16:43.080 But you've gone so far leftward, it's actually endangered the sale of your parent company.

00:16:49.580 Might this not be a time to reflect, revamp, recover some of that old magic that made the

00:16:57.600 broadcast famous to begin with?

00:17:00.200 We'll believe it when you fire literally every correspondent.

00:17:03.520 You can start with Sharon, but Scott Pelley has to go, as do the others.

00:17:07.920 Every correspondent on staff, along with all producers, shred it down to the studs, and

00:17:13.640 we will consider taking you seriously again.

00:17:16.020 Until then, goodbye, Bill.

00:17:18.920 You'll go the way of 60s ratings, out the door, into retirement, never to be seen again.

00:17:25.780 Joining me now, our friend and first guest ever on The Megyn Kelly Show, Glenn Greenwald,

00:17:31.060 host of Rumble's System Update.

00:17:32.580 Aren't you tired of the corporate media prioritizing certain narratives or the facts?

00:17:37.660 I mean, I, of course, have been too, and that's why we launched this show, to have real conversations

00:17:41.960 full of tough questions and to get to the truth.

00:17:44.440 And it's also why I want to tell you about Ground News, an independent app and website

00:17:48.580 not at the mercy of corporate control.

00:17:50.640 They prioritize transparency so you can compare coverage on any issue and think for yourself

00:17:55.900 instead of letting someone else think for you or manipulate you.

00:17:59.320 They even show important stories that the other side is ignoring.

00:18:03.000 Go to groundnews.com slash Megan and you can see it in action for yourself.

00:18:07.440 With so many outlets suppressing conservative views in particular and ignoring facts, Ground

00:18:12.200 News is more important than ever.

00:18:13.920 Track all your most trusted independent sources there so you never miss out on the story shaping

00:18:18.360 our world.

00:18:19.240 Right now, you can get 40% off their Vantage plan.

00:18:22.580 That's good.

00:18:23.480 Knocking the price down to just five bucks a month.

00:18:26.680 Go to groundnews.com slash Megan, that's G-R-O-U-N-D news.com slash Megan, to invest a small amount

00:18:34.080 in your ability to think critically about the news.

00:18:38.480 Glenn, welcome back.

00:18:40.160 Your thoughts on Bill Owens' single tear jumping on the grenade to save 60 minutes.

00:18:47.460 I'm going to try and maintain my composure emotionally over everything that just happened.

00:18:51.740 It's not going to be easy, but I'll do my best for your show.

00:18:54.680 You know, I think there's a lot going on here and there's a few issues that I do want to

00:18:59.680 talk about that are, I think, ancillary to what's taking place, but nonetheless important.

00:19:04.180 I think the primary issue, though, Megan, is that these people are living in a past that

00:19:09.640 no longer exists.

00:19:11.380 There was one quote that said 60 minutes is the crowning jewel of broadcast journalism.

00:19:16.460 It was the crowning jewel of broadcast journalism.

00:19:19.580 I remember when I was growing up, you know, and became very interested in politics, even

00:19:23.080 in like my early teens, I used to watch 60 Minutes.

00:19:25.660 And really, it was kind of what shaped my admiration for journalism.

00:19:29.640 I desire to be part of journalism.

00:19:31.420 I remember they would take the most powerful people in society, you know, corporate executives

00:19:36.680 and tobacco executives and oil executives and some of the most powerful political officials

00:19:42.480 in the country, regardless of ideology, and they would just grill them mercilessly about

00:19:47.920 questions that they ought to answer.

00:19:49.740 That's what made 60 Minutes so frightening to people, so alarming to people, to the people

00:19:55.300 in power.

00:19:56.480 And they didn't really have a political agenda.

00:19:58.820 It was they really prided themselves on being pure, purely journalistic.

00:20:03.140 And this is what has happened writ large to our corporate media in general, and they don't

00:20:08.880 realize it or they don't want to accept it, is that they have lost the faith and trust

00:20:14.140 in everybody except for the part of the audience that agrees with them ideologically, which is

00:20:19.940 basically meaningless.

00:20:21.640 I mean, the whole point of 60 Minutes was it gathered all Americans together as a news

00:20:26.340 institution that we all trusted, regardless of party, regardless of ideology.

00:20:29.400 All of those days are gone for almost every single one of these institutions.

00:20:33.980 And the reason they squandered it is not because of the advent of the internet and independent

00:20:38.120 voices.

00:20:39.000 They squandered it because they deservedly squandered it because they proved over and over that

00:20:43.920 they have a prioritization of a political agenda over their journalistic agenda.

00:20:49.160 The only reason there's an independent media, the only reason you have this gigantic audience

00:20:53.140 or people like Joe Rogan or Tucker Carlson or so many others, the reason we're able to attract

00:20:57.620 a big audience in terms of independent media, is not because we manipulated the public into

00:21:03.840 no longer trusting these big corporate media outlets that they used to get their news from

00:21:07.300 and believe it was the truth.

00:21:08.400 It was because they themselves got caught lying so many times.

00:21:13.140 They so transparently renounced their journalistic mission and journalistic agenda in pursuit of

00:21:19.960 a broader political ideology, which I really think began primarily as a reaction to Donald Trump.

00:21:25.840 The media has always been sort of vaguely liberal, especially on cultural issues.

00:21:30.820 They're based in New York and Washington and the coast.

00:21:33.460 But within that, they could still do a lot of nonpartisan trans ideological journalism.

00:21:39.980 Once Donald Trump came, they all collectively began believing that their primary mission was

00:21:45.140 no longer to report the news, to be even-handed in any way.

00:21:48.360 Their primary mission was to stop Donald Trump as a way of saving the republic.

00:21:52.120 And the minute a journalist starts thinking that way, then essentially all of your journalistic

00:21:57.540 neutrality and what gave you the credibility in the first place has evaporated.

00:22:01.600 And these people who are weeping in these newsrooms just can't come to terms with that.

00:22:06.700 They think they've lost something in the last week that they, in fact, have lost many years

00:22:11.580 ago and no longer have.

00:22:12.780 Yes, that they willingly, voluntarily gave up in an effort to ruin Trump.

00:22:19.440 And we all watched it.

00:22:20.560 I couldn't agree more.

00:22:21.920 I loved 60 Minutes when I was younger.

00:22:24.460 I loved Mike Wallace.

00:22:25.880 And there's no question that Mike Wallace was a committed liberal Democrat.

00:22:31.160 But his reports on 60 Minutes were great and unsparing.

00:22:35.840 And that was still in the age of, you know, the Ed Bradleys of the world, where they did

00:22:40.980 not really believe, or at least they were reined in from showing their hard left partisan nature

00:22:48.840 every week when that broadcast began.

00:22:52.440 We put this together a while ago.

00:22:54.440 It bears showing again because it's great.

00:22:57.400 But here's a sample of how Mike Wallace used to do journalism while he was on 60.

00:23:03.140 What means to dictatorship?

00:23:07.240 A dictator is somebody who forcibly, whether it's free press or free religion or free private

00:23:21.320 enterprise, now you're beginning to come a little closer to that.

00:23:25.020 You, father, knows best.

00:23:29.320 And if you get in the way of father, father will take care of you.

00:23:35.780 The Imam President Sadat of Egypt, a devoutly religious man, a Muslim, says that what you

00:23:44.780 are doing now is, quote, a disgrace to Islam.

00:23:49.420 And he calls you, Imam, forgive me, his words, not mine, a lunatic.

00:23:56.540 What they hear, what I heard, was overtones of absolute, you were sticking it to the Jews

00:24:03.900 once again.

00:24:06.700 That's what good journalism looks like.

00:24:09.040 He was unsparing.

00:24:09.820 You're sitting across in the Ayatollah and you bust that out on him, you know, like right

00:24:14.240 in people's faces and instead what 60 Minutes does now is, yeah, if they've got Donald Trump

00:24:20.560 there, they'll have some hard questions for him.

00:24:22.880 But if you've got Barack Obama, you talk about how amazing he is, how wonderful he is, what

00:24:29.280 it's like to be president.

00:24:30.260 If you have Kamala Harris, you do clean up on her answers.

00:24:32.800 So she sounds more cogent and together.

00:24:35.620 One of her biggest weaknesses, by the way.

00:24:37.900 So the edit did matter.

00:24:39.840 You know, I think I think we all have to begin with like humility, even as journalists and

00:24:46.240 recognize that we all are the byproduct of an endless number of subjective experiences,

00:24:51.980 like where we're born, what our parents teach us, what community we grew up in, what religion

00:24:56.040 we grew up in, how we see our country, how other countries see that.

00:24:59.540 These are all things that, of course, make us imperfect in terms of vehicles for the truth.

00:25:05.940 None of us are infallible vessels of the truth.

00:25:08.160 We're human beings.

00:25:09.060 We see things erroneously all the time.

00:25:11.620 What used to be the high duty of journalism was to, number one, recognize that.

00:25:16.000 So there was no this fraudulent sense that, oh, yes, we reside above everybody else in our

00:25:21.120 ability to free ourselves of political bias and political subjectivity, but that instead

00:25:26.900 we're going to do the best job possible in our reporting to make sure it's divorced from

00:25:32.020 our political agenda.

00:25:33.240 That has always been what has divided good journalism from bad journalism.

00:25:37.400 And I just if you don't mind, Megan, let me just address the point you brought up with

00:25:42.220 the 60 Minutes of Leslie Stahl and the Donald Trump interview, because this was a crucial

00:25:46.420 moment for me professionally, because I have always been a media critic for a long time.

00:25:50.860 I thought the corporate media was losing its objectivity, was becoming an agenda pursuing

00:25:55.720 entity above all else long before Trump.

00:25:58.780 But that was really a defining moment for me, because I used to think the goal is to criticize

00:26:04.540 journalism with the goal of reforming it so that we could go back to a time when we had

00:26:09.300 major journalistic institutions all of Americans could trust.

00:26:13.340 And that was one of the moments where I really lost that hope and said, no, actually, this is

00:26:17.660 a hopeless project.

00:26:19.340 This is that these days are gone and they're not coming back because I was working very hard

00:26:24.920 on that Hunter Biden story, on that Hunter Biden laptop.

00:26:27.480 And, you know, we all have talent as journalists.

00:26:29.100 We all have experience as journalists.

00:26:30.400 One of the things I've done most of my career is I work with very large archives of information.

00:26:36.520 You know, I got I worked a lot with WikiLeaks on those kind of archives, obviously the Snowden

00:26:39.920 files.

00:26:40.420 I had several of those in Brazil and I know how to verify them.

00:26:43.940 I know the journalistic means that are used to verify them.

00:26:46.820 Well before the election, I knew the Hunter Biden laptop was verifiable, was authentic,

00:26:51.660 was genuine, that the information in there was reliable.

00:26:55.180 I had confirmed it in all the ways that we had confirmed these other laptops and these

00:26:59.800 other archives.

00:27:00.820 And so to watch Leslie Stahl say, and she was just mouthing what everybody else in the media

00:27:04.800 was saying, because it was weeks before the election, they didn't want to do anything

00:27:07.940 to jeopardize Biden's chances.

00:27:09.840 Oh, this laptop is not something we can talk about.

00:27:12.180 You know that it's something we can't verify.

00:27:14.120 They all spread the lie that it was Russian disinformation.

00:27:17.840 And I, of course, ended up leaving my own media outlet because they wouldn't let me report

00:27:21.400 on this archive that I knew for certain was authentic.

00:27:24.420 That was really the moment that showed me that this was not just a kind of progressive

00:27:30.360 incremental problem that one day could be reined in.

00:27:33.140 It was really a fundamental transformation of how these media institutions thought about

00:27:38.580 what their primary mission was.

00:27:40.560 They were very willing, in fact, eager to find lies to justify burying that archive that

00:27:46.780 told us a lot about what Joe Biden and his family did in pursuit of profit in China, profit

00:27:52.540 in Ukraine, all sorts of important questions about the credibility of Joe Biden.

00:27:57.860 But they were so desperate to do anything to make sure that he won that election against

00:28:02.820 Donald Trump that I watched them all collectively embrace a series of lies to justify burying it

00:28:09.800 and suppressing it.

00:28:10.620 Of course, big tech then censored it, too, based on those same lies.

00:28:14.140 And that was when I left corporate media for good and said independent journalism is the

00:28:19.000 only way to do real journalism because the pressures politically and culturally on these editors

00:28:24.160 are too great to allow the journalistic mission to be fulfilled.

00:28:27.860 It's so true.

00:28:29.840 You go back to that period of time, it was like, oh, the Hunter Biden laptop, not verifiable,

00:28:34.720 even though it's totally verifiable and was later verified even by CBS once everybody else

00:28:40.060 had done it.

00:28:40.820 And at the same time, boosting the Lincoln Project and playing their nasty ads without

00:28:45.740 doing any investigation of the people that they were promoting.

00:28:48.780 Trump loses.

00:28:50.440 Biden takes over.

00:28:51.800 All that hard hitting stuff goes by the wayside.

00:28:54.000 The focus turns to Ron DeSantis and boring in on him with a false story.

00:28:59.520 And then it would turn back to Trump.

00:29:00.940 And when Trump won in 2024, of course, we had more of the same.

00:29:06.720 Here's Scott Pelley.

00:29:08.040 This didn't make my little talking points memo, but here he is starting his show in November

00:29:12.780 of 2024, talking about the Trump cabinet picks.

00:29:17.140 Does this sound fair and balanced to you?

00:29:18.880 This past week, Republicans won the House majority and President-elect Trump made nominations

00:29:26.340 to his cabinet.

00:29:27.900 Some nominees appear to have no compelling qualifications other than loyalty to Trump.

00:29:34.120 The nominees are Senator Marco Rubio, Pete Hegseth.

00:29:38.140 He's a combat veteran, most recently a morning show host on Fox News with no government experience.

00:29:45.080 Tulsi Gabbard, for director of national intelligence.

00:29:48.880 She sought a pardon for Edward Snowden, who leaked U.S. secrets and now lives in Russia.

00:29:55.700 And Robert Kennedy Jr., a skeptic of vaccinations.

00:30:01.640 I know I've triggered you with the Snowden reference there, but it's all bad.

00:30:06.540 Not only that, but the idea was, if you notice how slimy that was, it began with these people

00:30:13.980 have no qualifications, but then each one of them was smeared with some view that if

00:30:20.100 you're a good liberal, you were supposed to hate.

00:30:22.620 Tulsi Gabbard has spent her entire career in the U.S. military.

00:30:26.780 She worked her way up to lieutenant colonel.

00:30:28.400 She has every security clearance possible.

00:30:30.800 She was in the Congress for eight years.

00:30:32.420 She served on the Intelligence and House Armed Services Committee.

00:30:35.040 How is she not qualified for a position in the intelligence community?

00:30:39.120 And of course, you go on and on with RFK in his entire life, devoted as an environmental

00:30:44.080 lawyer and as a health advocate.

00:30:46.640 So this is the sort of thing that I think has become so transparent, even to ordinary people

00:30:53.440 who don't pay a lot of attention to this.

00:30:55.380 The one thing I do want to say, Megan, is I actually do think it's a reasonable concern

00:31:01.140 when you have these media outlets who have been bought by massive corporate conglomerates

00:31:06.120 who do depend upon the good graces of the federal government, either because they get big contracts

00:31:10.900 from them or they need their regulatory approval.

00:31:13.800 That has always been a problem where major corporations that own media outlets want to

00:31:17.900 keep good relations with the government and then therefore might restrict their media outlets

00:31:23.300 from reporting adversarial on the government.

00:31:25.220 That only becomes a problem, though, when those media outlets, when those media programs lose

00:31:30.760 credibility.

00:31:31.620 The reason they never used to do that is because they knew that the whistle would be blown on them

00:31:36.100 and say, oh, these CBS executives are telling us what we can and can't say.

00:31:39.960 And people trusted 60 Minutes if they blew the whistle.

00:31:43.000 The problem is nobody trusts these outlets anymore.

00:31:45.940 So when they say corporate executives are interfering in our journalism, people say, well, you know what?

00:31:52.000 Your journalism doesn't really seem like journalism.

00:31:54.280 And so maybe you do actually need some interference from higher ups in order to make you start doing

00:31:59.400 your job.

00:32:00.100 I do find corporate interference in journalism dangerous, but they, again, have made their own

00:32:05.460 bed that they're now forced to lie in.

00:32:07.940 That's right.

00:32:08.380 I think what happened was they got so far leftward in their drift that it hampered Sherry Redstone's

00:32:15.800 possible ability to sell the company to Skydance.

00:32:18.980 And she said, holy hell, somebody needs to rein these people in.

00:32:23.200 I gave you a very wide berth.

00:32:25.700 I didn't interfere for all this time, but you're so far gone.

00:32:30.480 I might not be able to sell the company now.

00:32:32.940 So I'm going to bring in this person to sort of babysit you.

00:32:36.440 And it was a bridge too far for this guy, Bill Owens.

00:32:39.080 And I'm sure this person is just as leftward in her bias as Bill Owens is, too, frankly.

00:32:43.020 But at least she's there ostensibly to try to manage what they've been doing wrong.

00:32:48.440 And they can't have it.

00:32:49.660 But it's like, as I said, there's no Bill Owens or no Bill Owens.

00:32:53.240 There's no reinventing 60 unless everybody goes.

00:32:56.860 I mean, you really think Sharon Alfonsi can be reformed?

00:33:00.780 Scott Pelley can be reformed in a way that will allow him to report honestly and fairly?

00:33:06.420 Anderson Cooper.

00:33:07.240 Do you remember when CNN, faced with their still declining ratings, started saying, oh,

00:33:16.100 like maybe if we move Don Lemon to the morning instead of at the night, and then we move this

00:33:20.820 like, I don't know what, Poppy Harlow, whoever that is, from like 8 o'clock to 11.

00:33:24.920 It's like the ultimate rearranging of the deck chairs as the Titanic sinks.

00:33:29.460 They don't understand that fundamentally they've become a non-journalistic organization that

00:33:34.780 nobody will ever trust until they start making major revisions.

00:33:38.700 They have now added some some true pro-Trump voices onto the show, including people like

00:33:43.720 Scott Jennings, who who are quite good.

00:33:45.660 But the news organization itself is inherently broken.

00:33:50.780 And until they fix it on a fundamental level, they can sort of put ornaments on it.

00:33:56.320 It's never really going to regain the trust of the people whose trust they lost but need.

00:34:00.320 Here's another CBS update for you.

00:34:04.460 I don't know if you happen to catch our latest astronauts, Glenn, take their trip to space,

00:34:10.180 literally comparing themselves to Alan Shepard, who walked on the moon.

00:34:13.440 I mean, literally, like multiple of our newest astronauts compared themselves to Alan Shepard.

00:34:19.180 Well, it hasn't worked out so well for Gayle King, who's at the opposite end of the time schedule on CBS.

00:34:28.500 She's in the mornings.

00:34:29.940 This news just posted via News Nation.

00:34:34.360 The morning show over there is in third place.

00:34:37.880 It's doing terribly, and it has been for some time.

00:34:40.360 They were averaging like mid to late February 2 million viewers in the overall and 357,000 in the 25 to 54 demo.

00:34:53.540 All right.

00:34:53.760 So call it 2 million and 350,000 in the overall and in the key advertising demo.

00:35:00.100 Well, right before the flight, their numbers searched.

00:35:04.340 People wanted to see what was going to happen, and they tuned in.

00:35:07.340 And that morning, they had 3.9 million viewers and almost 600,000 in the demo.

00:35:13.480 After the flight, viewers fled.

00:35:17.600 News Nation is reporting this.

00:35:19.760 Following three days, the numbers cratered to an average of 1.9 million people, a 51% loss.

00:35:26.300 The demo fell down to 339,000, a 43% loss below where they had been even going into the event.

00:35:32.780 Then Monday, April 21st, just a week after the flight, the demo fell even further.

00:35:38.320 Now it's down to 311,000.

00:35:41.180 The total number stated the terrible 1.9 million.

00:35:45.200 An industry insider telling News Nation this stunt should have never been greenlit by CBS News to begin with.

00:35:53.500 Gail tries to be this relatable morning show anchor who claims she's down to earth and then not only takes this gazillion dollar flight,

00:35:59.680 but then attacks people for getting mad at her.

00:36:02.080 It's a complete crock.

00:36:04.560 And just in case people haven't seen this one, this is one we did not play.

00:36:08.800 We played a lot of SOTs from these women.

00:36:11.100 But we've got Gail in a very short soundbite saying the following, SOT 28.

00:36:17.140 Two of the astronauts, I still have a hard time calling myself an astronaut.

00:36:19.820 She literally is calling herself an astronaut.

00:36:26.160 She doesn't understand why we don't celebrate her.

00:36:30.280 And she's probably really confused as to why her ratings are falling.

00:36:33.060 Yeah, it's like taking a flight from Detroit to, you know, San Jose and then being like, hey, I just rode on this aircraft.

00:36:40.480 Now I'm a pilot.

00:36:41.400 It's hard to think of myself a pilot.

00:36:43.260 But like I am a pilot.

00:36:44.320 I actually did fly on this thing that flew through the air and landed safely.

00:36:47.260 And also, you know, I'm not saying like you're supposed to be the most serious news person if you're on a morning show.

00:36:54.660 Like, you know, the idea is to kind of be like friendly and to wake up and have people feel comfortable with you in the morning or as they get ready for work or whatever.

00:37:01.540 Still, it is a news show.

00:37:03.020 And she didn't just go on this thing.

00:37:05.240 She went on with like some of I mean, she sat next to Katy Perry, you know, like just one of the most absurd pop stars who just made, I think, the worst joke of herself when she came down and like kiss the ground and talk about the spirituality of that seven second flight.

00:37:20.500 And all of this is just continuously eroding any credibility that they have to claim that they have any authority at all.

00:37:29.260 I mean, they're making themselves more and more ridiculous.

00:37:31.420 And also, as you say, it just kind of reeks of somebody who would who wants to be a very wealthy celebrity and show off that opulence as opposed to somebody who is in any way relatable.

00:37:43.080 You know, you're talking about like the people hand chosen by the second richest man on the planet who put his fiancee along with Katy Perry on this flight.

00:37:51.180 It was a cringe fest from start to finish.

00:37:54.320 And then she goes on and says, yeah, I'm still a little humble.

00:37:57.120 I don't really want to call myself an astronaut, even though I am.

00:37:59.620 What do they think people in this country are going to how they're going to react to that sort of thing?

00:38:03.960 And this is what I'm saying, Megan, is that they live in this world that is so detached from anything other than themselves that they just have lost the ability to understand how they're perceived by other people.

00:38:17.560 And that is really one of the worst, worst attributes you can possibly have if you're in the public arena is to just completely lose the ability to understand how others are perceiving you.

00:38:27.380 She went out, Gail King, after she got blowback and, among other things, said to her critics, have you been?

00:38:36.120 Have you been?

00:38:37.560 That's my question.

00:38:38.600 No, Gail, no one's been because it costs a million dollars to get on Jeff Bezos's spaceship.

00:38:44.240 And as some folks online, News Nation points out, responded, no, Gail, I'm trying to buy eggs.

00:38:50.640 Gail, if I had that money, I'd be paying off the mortgage on my house, right?

00:38:54.380 Like, so out of touch, Ms. Oprah's best friend on David Geffen's yacht, always at Oprah's side doing all the billionaire excursions.

00:39:02.900 Have you been?

00:39:03.720 And then, as if that wasn't going to persuade people, she actually played the sexist card.

00:39:10.940 We've played this before, but it doesn't get old.

00:39:13.820 Here it is.

00:39:15.540 Please don't call it a ride.

00:39:17.320 That is not a frigging ride.

00:39:18.440 Whenever a man goes up, you have never said to an astronaut, boy, what a ride.

00:39:23.200 You know, we duplicated the same trajectory that Alan Shepard did back in the day, pretty much.

00:39:28.820 No one called that a ride.

00:39:30.240 It was called a flight.

00:39:31.260 It was called a journey because a ride implies that it's something frivolous or something that's lighthearted.

00:39:37.640 There was nothing frivolous about what we did and the machine that we were on and what it took for the people to get that machine up and running, to get us up and get us back down safely.

00:39:49.480 So, you know, I'm very disappointed and very saddened by it.

00:39:52.600 And I also say this, the what it's doing to inspire other women and young girls, please don't ignore that.

00:39:59.900 I've had so many women and young girls reach out to me and men, too, by the way, men, too, that say, wow, I never thought I could do that.

00:40:07.180 But I see you doing it at this stage of my life.

00:40:09.320 Who would have thunk it?

00:40:10.180 Not me.

00:40:11.300 And how inspired they are.

00:40:14.580 OK, you better be inspired.

00:40:17.060 And if you call it a ride, you're a sexist pig.

00:40:20.860 It was a ride, Megan.

00:40:22.260 It was a carnival ride for rich people.

00:40:24.400 Of course, that's what it was.

00:40:25.720 And like the reason we distinguish what they did from actual astronauts, by the way, many of whom are women.

00:40:31.520 We have real female astronauts who might inspire like young girls to think about a career in becoming astronauts is because they didn't do any of the training.

00:40:41.200 They just sat there.

00:40:42.460 Other people were responsible for the ride that they were on.

00:40:46.060 Like this is so basic and so obvious who puts these things in these people's heads that, you know, that that lets them get off of this ride and say, how dare you not take seriously our role as astronauts?

00:40:58.120 When you have people who trained their whole lives, they go to, you know, engineering school and aeronautics school in order to study the the art of being an astronaut, the science involved in going to space.

00:41:09.620 And they dressed up in a costume and went on a on a little ship ride for 11 minutes.

00:41:14.340 And some carnival rides actually take more than that.

00:41:17.360 And then they come back and they're like, how dare you call it a ride?

00:41:21.060 No wonder the ratings are plummeting.

00:41:23.060 It's actually very interesting to me that there's a real backlash.

00:41:25.740 I mean, if you Google, just Google Blue Origin space ride, every single thing that comes up is the backlash, how angry people are about this, how absurd they thought it was, what a vanity play it was.

00:41:37.100 Obviously, it had exactly the opposite of the one Gail and the others thought it would.

00:41:42.120 This also reported in that same report, Katy Perry struggling to sell tickets for her Lifetime's tour, despite promoting it during the 11 minute space tourism journey.

00:41:53.120 By holding up the set list printed on a butterfly to the camera, as they write, instead of, you know, looking outside the window at Earth.

00:42:02.540 So it's like the reason it's so great is because people are on to it.

00:42:08.260 You know, they they didn't get away with it, Glenn.

00:42:10.760 They they've been called out at every turn to the point now that they're running from it.

00:42:15.660 No, they don't even want to talk about it now.

00:42:17.200 Yeah. You know, Megan, I'm sure you remember, you know, like in the 80s, they sent the first woman into space on on the Columbia spaceship, which ended up being, you know, tragically destroyed.

00:42:27.280 And they picked a teacher from New Hampshire, Krista McAuliffe.

00:42:30.660 And yeah, she wasn't spending, you know, millions of dollars.

00:42:35.220 She wasn't like a pop star or a TV star.

00:42:38.240 She was chosen precisely because she represented the ordinary American.

00:42:41.600 And the idea was we want to open this, you know, transformative experience to ordinary people.

00:42:47.360 This is exactly the opposite, what they ended up doing.

00:42:50.460 And also for Gayle King to talk about her like she's some sort of feminist pioneer, like she's the first person ever to go into space.

00:42:56.940 When, as I said, you had Krista McCullough, but also like a good number now of like actual trained female astronauts who go into space.

00:43:05.900 It I mean, is it really surprising that people reacted in the way that they're reacting?

00:43:10.900 I mean, not only that, but there was another woman on board.

00:43:13.920 I don't know who she is, but I watched some of the interview that they did when they got off of their spacecraft after their mission.

00:43:20.100 And the question was like, what, what does this mean for you?

00:43:24.180 And she's like, you know, this is for all survivors.

00:43:27.700 I'm like a survivor.

00:43:29.140 It turns out this woman alleged that she had been the victim of a rape many years earlier when she was at Harvard and has become like a sexual assault activist now.

00:43:39.240 And she brought up with her some medical bracelet, I guess, from when she went to the hospital and made this claim.

00:43:44.680 And she made the thing, I'm like, must everything truly, this is the left's idea of like what it means to be a woman.

00:43:52.200 You, you are about the abuse that men have heaped upon you.

00:43:57.120 You are about the sexist pigs who refer to your space mission as a ride, or you are Lauren Sanchez, where you are literally getting a suit that unzips.

00:44:07.400 So you can show off your tits while you're on your way to space.

00:44:11.220 I like, and then the cherry on top, when they come back, lecturing us on how there was nothing frivolous about what they did up there with the Kardashians and Oprah on the sidelines watching Glenn.

00:44:24.660 He's got everything that the left thinks it is to be a woman.

00:44:29.460 Yeah, you know, I think that the people who actually make the biggest differences in terms of, you know, we have a conception of what this particular kind of job entails, even in politics or an industry or whatever, you know, a CEO is a man and then you have the first CEO as a woman.

00:44:46.540 The people who make the actual differences are the people who just go and do their jobs and aren't constantly banging on the table and demanding attention and saying, isn't it amazing that even though I'm a woman, I've been able to become the CEO.

00:45:00.540 You know, you have gay people in public life who just go into public life, are open about it, but don't call attention to it.

00:45:07.040 You have black people who do that.

00:45:08.400 What this was, was it was almost like a parody of a social justice crusade.

00:45:13.680 Like we're going to get these six women, none of whom have the slightest experience whose only qualification is that they are women.

00:45:19.480 We're purposely going to make it an all women fight so we can celebrate feminism.

00:45:23.780 And it always ends up being so artificial and so contrived.

00:45:28.080 And of course, then to add, you know, like the ultimate victim of somebody who's a survivor of sexual assault.

00:45:33.800 It just is the kind of thing that I think ends up being counterproductive because it creates this perception of women as people who can only make achievements if there's some special carve out for them, if they assume a victim role.

00:45:48.600 It's kind of a very regressive way, actually, of looking at the role of all sorts of people who didn't use to perform these kinds of jobs, whereas the ones who I think actually make the biggest difference are the ones who just go and be astronauts and go into space and do their job without constantly calling attention to what their demographic is.

00:46:09.020 Those are the people who actually end up shaping society in a real way because they're being so genuine about it.

00:46:14.400 But they just couldn't get it.

00:46:16.880 They could not get it through their heads.

00:46:19.180 They are all Democrat leftists from the look of it.

00:46:22.080 I mean, we know a few of them are.

00:46:23.660 And so they just don't think that way.

00:46:24.920 They think everyone's going to celebrate them bringing up their trauma or their breasts or their heroics or lectures on how we need to refer to their flight.

00:46:35.040 Because if you don't call them sheroes, you're a sexist pig.

00:46:38.560 This is leftist thought.

00:46:39.920 You know, it's on display.

00:46:40.440 And that's why it kind of gets to a bigger point of can the left get past this?

00:46:44.960 You know, the Democrat Party's wrestling with this right now.

00:46:47.960 We over here are just looking at them, wondering what their next move is, because this sort of woke, very progressive cancer that they're dealing with is eating away their own party.

00:46:58.640 And I've said from the beginning, I don't I think they're stuck because they can't excise this thinking from their party.

00:47:05.140 It's too deeply ingrained.

00:47:06.340 It's been ingrained K through college.

00:47:09.020 They're true believers in it now.

00:47:10.900 I like if they if they cut off that arm, they're not going to have a whole party.

00:47:15.740 Like they're not going to survive without it because it's just too infested.

00:47:18.640 I mean, they are losing, as you know, groups that they thought they had owned lock, stock and barrel forever, no matter what it is that they did.

00:47:28.320 And if you there's there's a lot of complex reasons for that.

00:47:31.560 But if you look at the kind of the ethos and the sentiments being expressed by, say, black voters who would never in their entire lives have considered voting Republican before, whose families were members of the Democratic Party for generations or Latinos or LGBTs or women or any of those groups that have traditionally been more aligned with the Democratic Party.

00:47:50.800 I think one of the things you hear is this kind of like exhaustion about the Democratic Party, about American liberalism constantly imposing on them the burden to identify first and foremost, not as a member of society, not as an American, not as somebody trying to support their family, not as someone trying to get ahead.

00:48:08.300 But based on these demographic groups, these in this insistence that you identify first and foremost, based on these demographic groups that at the end of the day, don't really have much of an impact on the way in the way it is in which you live your life.

00:48:23.080 Maybe 100 years ago, it had a huge impact. But the progress that the United States has made is such that people don't want to be defined that way anymore.

00:48:30.620 And I think the more you define them that way, the more you're the one constraining them in the name of emancipating and liberating them.

00:48:37.840 And more and more people are catching on to that scam.

00:48:40.540 Mm hmm. It happens no matter how rich, powerful, successful these women on the left are.

00:48:49.680 And that is a tease for what we're going to discuss when we come back from this break.

00:48:53.680 And that person is Michelle Obama, who is off her rocker on her latest message.

00:49:00.980 It's unbelievable.

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00:50:01.680 Glenn, Michelle Obama, still trying to make her struggling podcast a thing, went on a four-and-a-half-minute tear about herself and how hard it is to be Michelle Obama.

00:50:21.440 We're going to go through quite a bit of it.

00:50:23.320 Here's the first one about how difficult it is for black women like Michelle to articulate their pain.

00:50:33.100 We grew up with women who weren't voicing the pain and the burden.

00:50:40.140 They made it look easy.

00:50:41.820 And when you make stuff look easy, people assume that you must like this.

00:50:47.480 It's okay with you, right?

00:50:49.520 Right.

00:50:49.820 You know, we don't articulate as black women our pain because it's almost like nobody ever gave us permission to do that.

00:50:58.820 And does anyone care?

00:51:00.260 Yeah, there's that.

00:51:01.240 Well, they care.

00:51:02.040 If we knew, I think we would care.

00:51:05.620 If we knew.

00:51:06.500 Mm-hmm.

00:51:07.040 If we knew.

00:51:07.780 Or, you know, yeah, and we have to ask ourselves, the men in our lives is, you know, why wait to be asked?

00:51:18.200 What do you mean?

00:51:18.800 You know, it seems like what we go through is pretty obvious.

00:51:22.580 I mean, maybe we're not complaining, but we're actually living life out loud.

00:51:26.500 This is the perfect soundbite after the discussion we just had about how the left looks at everything through this identity.

00:51:33.880 You could say prism.

00:51:34.880 You could also say prison.

00:51:36.060 Man, where she's talking about how women aren't allowed to articulate their pain about how they just suck it up.

00:51:46.400 You know, they don't show that.

00:51:48.320 As if men never do that, Glenn.

00:51:51.300 Like, men are known, aren't they, for articulating their pain?

00:51:54.960 That's what you think of when you think of man traditionally.

00:51:58.460 Bill Burr has a new comedy special I don't know if you've seen it where it's essentially all about

00:52:05.120 that you know men die of heart attacks and strokes and all sorts of coronary disease

00:52:09.460 and have a life expectancy lower than women in a similar socioeconomic position according to him

00:52:16.380 because they're constantly forced to suck in their pain and kind of bury their suffering and

00:52:23.020 their anxieties and their fear because that's what society teaches whereas women are far freer

00:52:27.760 to express emotion but you know leave that aside for the second Megan we all have in our childhood

00:52:35.720 every single last one of us some kind of difficulty you could even call it trauma if you want to use

00:52:42.500 the new modern day jargon because being a child is actually quite difficult because you're confronting

00:52:47.760 a world that you don't actually have the mental capacity to interpret or understand you end up

00:52:52.540 misinterpreting things all the time there are parts of us that society dislikes that we don't quite know

00:52:57.500 how to express or that we feel judged by there's huge numbers of people who end up with all kinds of

00:53:04.080 childhood difficulties and don't feel a need to start a podcast where they essentially spend all

00:53:10.880 their time complaining about that and you know you and I I don't know if you remember but the last time

00:53:15.420 I was on your show we did talk about uh Michelle Obama's podcast because on the list of people to feel

00:53:22.320 sorry for or to think are oppressed or to think are somehow people who deserve our sympathetic

00:53:28.300 attention if you were to list all eight billion people in the world Michelle Obama would be

00:53:33.420 if not at the very bottom like maybe six spots away from being at the bottom I just checked the list

00:53:39.960 she's not on it it's official she's not on it okay yeah so she's I think if you list if you listed all

00:53:45.780 eight billion people on the planet in order of who deserves sympathy she would be like seven spots

00:53:51.120 away from the bottom if not right at the bottom so no you you're so wrong listen listen to this okay

00:53:58.000 I'll let you pick up your point in the back end of this but listen to her talking about her eight years

00:54:04.700 um so I'm at this stage in life where I have to define my life on my terms for the first time so

00:54:19.080 what are those terms and going to therapy just to work all that out like what happened that eight years

00:54:26.700 that we were in the White House what did that do to me yes internally my soul we we made it through

00:54:33.200 we got out alive I hope we made the country proud oh my god my girls thank god are whole

00:54:38.480 but what happened to me oh my god the utter privilege and how out of touch this person is

00:54:47.900 she lived in a 55,000 square foot mansion on the taxpayer's dime with 18 acres of rose gardens

00:54:57.500 and beautiful grounds all around her flying on air force one marine one and being the first lady of

00:55:03.960 the united states lauded wherever she went with universally praising press coverage and covers of

00:55:09.540 vogue like she was the greatest beauty who'd ever walked the face of the earth then left to write her

00:55:16.100 best-selling memoir for which she was paid millions then signed a netflix deal for which she was paid

00:55:20.060 millions is giving speeches for which she's getting paid almost a million dollars per speech has two

00:55:27.060 daughters who went to harvard and usc they the two of them together i haven't even counted her

00:55:33.220 husband's riches they're definitely billionaires by now the house in martha's vineyard which is i think

00:55:39.020 20 20 million dollars out on the yachts of david what happened to me what why doesn't anyone think

00:55:45.720 about what happened to me during my you i i'm i'm enraged i'm almost speechless at how ridiculously out of touch

00:55:56.520 this person is glenn well this is the thing megan you know i grew up like very ordinary my my parents were

00:56:03.420 like working class middle class whatever we didn't have i'm not you know we weren't in in-depth poverty but we

00:56:08.860 weren't you know at all prosperous either um and only later in life did i start to find a certain

00:56:16.040 career success because of my work you know you start to find financial stability and you start to find

00:56:20.620 uh notoriety for your work you know this very well and it it is possible that with all these things

00:56:25.800 that you crave and that you always wanted once you get a hold of them there it does bring a certain

00:56:31.520 kind of problem that you didn't anticipate maybe psychological problems how do you deal with

00:56:35.880 attention negative feedback or whatever but and and it's fine to go work on that to go get that

00:56:42.320 treated to try and figure out a way to how to deal with those things but if you have even the slightest

00:56:48.320 amount of self-awareness you understand that the problems that 99 of the people face in terms of how

00:56:57.720 they're even going to feed their family the tragedies that people are going through the losses that they

00:57:02.160 suffer the deprivations all around the world make it so pathetic for you to go and publicly say hey hey

00:57:10.820 gather around me and listen to me i want to tell you about all the difficulties there that come from

00:57:16.580 being wealthy or from being famous or from being you know one of the most celebrated women in the world

00:57:24.240 it's like i'm not saying there aren't odd things about being the first lady and having that level of

00:57:29.900 fame there probably are nobody wants to hear about her and her difficulties given the extraordinary

00:57:36.400 blessings that she has and you have to be so narcissistic not to realize that you know it would

00:57:42.640 really be like if marie antoinette summoned everybody to versailles and said i want you to

00:57:47.440 listen to this speech about how difficult and isolating it is to be a monarch and the queen and to be

00:57:52.940 swimming in wealth while you people can't afford bread everybody'd be like i don't why would i want to

00:57:58.620 hear about your problems right no it's like megan markle bitching about how small her castle was i

00:58:04.760 mean it's like how out of touch can you be the thing about michelle obama is she's always negative

00:58:11.400 everything she says has got a negative spin on it she's negative about the country she's negative about

00:58:17.760 her time as first lady she's very negative about her husband she i fully believe that they have a bad

00:58:23.720 marriage she did not marry the right person it's not a good match she almost never says anything nice

00:58:29.060 about him that too she's now trying to defend as somehow i don't know this is like a racial attack

00:58:37.660 when people say this uh you tell me if you can figure it out by the way she's speaking here to her

00:58:41.480 brother and actress taraji b henson sat 25 you know and also as black women um we are so easily labeled

00:58:51.880 as angry and bitter uh and let me tell you some of the most hurtful uh stuff that i experienced

00:58:58.900 you know entering this life of public service at the heights that we uh entered into was during

00:59:06.700 my husband's presidential campaign and just me telling the truth of who we were you know you know

00:59:14.800 just humanizing him as a man saying he's you know he's a great man but he's not perfect you know he's

00:59:22.300 got his foibles and his flaws trying to humanize him the first thing that some female journalist said

00:59:29.360 is that i was bitter i was uh i was uh emasculating him um just by sort of trying to tell the truth about

00:59:37.980 what life is right um and then you get labeled as angry um you know because you talk forcefully or

00:59:46.120 passionately about something even if it's in the context of of great joy and pride that the that

00:59:54.060 the first label they put on us as black women oh my god glenn okay so first of all the fact that

01:00:01.980 this woman with all of her riches and celebrity trappings friends successes etc is upset and still

01:00:10.260 bitching about what quote some female journalist said one time about her 18 years ago like there's

01:00:17.500 something wrong with her like i i guarantee you i've had far more negative press than michelle obama i

01:00:26.040 guarantee you i have uh because i have been hated by both the right and the left and i like you let

01:00:32.900 it go you move on sometimes you even befriend the people who said the nasty things about you because

01:00:36.860 life is life it's short and the less grievances you can hold on to the better that's not how she

01:00:41.980 sees things and she wants to turn it all into a thing about skin color about when people see her

01:00:47.980 as yes bitter and yes often angry but what i just said is kind of just depressed and

01:00:55.960 dark about most subjects whenever she's talking there's just she's down she's negative she does

01:01:03.660 not see the half full glass it is quite the opposite there is no water in her glass you know there's no

01:01:10.320 uh the glass is always empty for michelle obama you're so right like also she's talking as though

01:01:15.760 she's this unique victim in the sense that of all the people who have run for president all their

01:01:21.120 spouses all their family members she's the first person who ever was the target of some sort of

01:01:26.880 vitriolic criticism you know that sort of is the nature of running for political office you think

01:01:32.760 there's a single person in the history of the united states who ran for president who wasn't the

01:01:37.060 target of the most i mean look at how every single one of them is treated i do you know i think that

01:01:44.920 uh and also i think it's worth remembering that her husband ran for state senate at a time when he was

01:01:51.200 extremely young and he won in a predominantly white neighborhood he then ran in a predominantly white

01:01:56.280 state as an unknown and won a senate seat for illinois then two years later he began his presidential

01:02:03.860 campaign and he was twice elected president of the united states by pretty significant margins over

01:02:10.840 mitch uh john mccain and mitt romney people were who were considered to be quite competent candidates

01:02:16.000 and to come out of all of that and still to focus not on the adulation and the historical achievements

01:02:23.020 and the way in which the country has progressed to make that happen but to remember with such bitterness

01:02:28.100 and anger some stray comment that some journalists made about you when you first started running

01:02:33.080 and to shape your entire worldview and the grievances that compose it based on that it's like

01:02:39.660 she's so addicted to being a victim notwithstanding the fact that she's one of the most one of the

01:02:44.500 least convincing victims that you almost start to feel sorry for her it's like what kind of darkness

01:02:50.780 and misery must she live in to yeah i mean you know that that uh because you're so like so much of what

01:02:59.700 she i mean she when she was describing the source of her problem she was saying it was the eight years

01:03:05.140 when she was first lady like how do i recover from that as though she was like kidnapped by isis for

01:03:10.420 eight years and subject to the most unthinkable abuses and now she has to recover she was the first

01:03:15.360 lady but if you really think that as she seems to think that the eight years that she spent in the

01:03:20.060 white house were these devastating years psychologically destructive who's the person who was responsible

01:03:26.240 for that as we reviewed in that last clip it was her husband who she made very clear she never

01:03:31.300 wanted to run for president and yet did so anyway against her wishes and i mean imagine the resentment

01:03:37.580 she has not for the world but for him every time she comments on him it's negative every time if it

01:03:43.300 were just one like oh i'm going to try to humanize him so people can relate to him that that actually

01:03:48.080 wouldn't be a thing but it's every time she is on camera she has a negative word about her husband

01:03:53.740 who happens to be one of the most famous people in the world i mean i just look i'm i'm not in the same

01:03:59.760 situation as michelle or barack obama but i've never heard my husband say a negative word about

01:04:04.460 me publicly he almost never says a negative word about me to my face i mean like we have a genuinely

01:04:09.980 loving relationship he would never be out there and trying to make like humanize me he might tell

01:04:15.980 like a funny story but he wouldn't continuously barrage people with genuinely negative things about me

01:04:23.680 like that's she doesn't like him it's very clear and then when you point that out it's you know

01:04:29.520 you're trying to paint me as an angry black woman what how did race get put into this what i see an

01:04:34.860 unhappily married woman but everything everything is about race for her it's always been you know

01:04:40.240 back to the college days and she got back to that topic in the same four minute rant watch this

01:04:46.340 i am probably less light than many of my white female friends i i see that less less light you know

01:04:58.760 light light light l-i-g-h-t because i i say this a lot i mean i see the difference in some of my my

01:05:07.660 my white female friends i see a lightness and ability to be in the world and see what's going on

01:05:15.160 but still be not as burdened about it as i think i am you know i think that what i see happen in the

01:05:27.120 news you know the assault on immigration rights the you know the the challenges that face our

01:05:35.820 community the inequality um i think it it burns at me in a different way

01:05:42.900 she hates her friends and her husband especially the one and it all and it all and it all comes down

01:05:50.600 to her it's like she talks about what she perceives as these great injustices people are suffering and

01:05:55.920 she immediately you know ignores any emotional effect it has on them and then goes right yes

01:06:01.660 toward her yes great point megan this is like the thing that i think and you were getting at you know

01:06:07.880 like if you have any kind of public life you know like my husband was a member of of the brazilian uh

01:06:14.420 congress he was you know a politician be very very public at the same time i was doing a lot of public

01:06:19.860 work with the stone and five way you know we did all of these public things together and in a course

01:06:24.260 of a marriage of course you have like you know disagreements you have differences that's totally

01:06:28.680 normal but every single time we were in public or giving interviews about the other person or whatever

01:06:34.220 the idea of love is you want to protect that person you want to uplift them you want to like

01:06:39.360 you know do everything to fortify them especially because there's so much in the world that that is

01:06:44.460 always trying to bring you down and attack you and to watch her do that and also like she must you

01:06:50.260 know even be teaching her kids these sorts of things um you know i mean my husband was black

01:06:56.740 our kids are multiracial so i do think a lot about you know wanting to make sure they have an

01:07:00.680 understanding of like their ancestry their culture like their tradition like we all should have that

01:07:05.560 understanding of our ancestry and our our culture and our tradition but at the same time see themselves

01:07:10.220 as liberated individuals that where the sky is the limit that society isn't you know trying to stop

01:07:15.960 them and trap them and it seems like everything that comes out of her mouth is not just negative

01:07:20.580 about her family and her internal life but also the society in which she lives and there's no benefit

01:07:26.200 and no blessing and no praise that you can heap on her that will get her to stop thinking about

01:07:31.300 herself as this enraged victim that everyone in the world needs to constantly hear about her pain and

01:07:37.980 trauma because there's nothing else like it it's so narcissistic above everything else totally that's why she named

01:07:43.640 her memoir beloved i mean honestly it's it's her narcissism and any criticism about her for it

01:07:49.880 results in you're just thinking i'm an angry black woman that's your racism coming out that's i guess

01:07:54.840 what she thinks of her friends last but not least she finally spoke to sort of the reason she did not go

01:08:02.920 to trump's inauguration and man this was this one was important to her take a listen but then this is

01:08:10.800 what makes it hard because you know my decision to skip the inauguration you know what people don't

01:08:17.680 realize or my decision to make choices at the beginning of this year that suited me were met with

01:08:24.820 such ridicule and criticism like people couldn't believe that i was saying no for any other reason

01:08:30.900 that they had to assume that my marriage was falling apart you know it's like while i'm here

01:08:37.820 really trying to own my life and intentionally practice making the choice that was right for me

01:08:44.940 and it took everything in my power to not do the thing that was right or that was was that person that

01:08:52.720 was perceived as right but do the thing that was right for me that was a hard thing for me to do

01:08:59.860 i had to basically trick myself out of it and it started with not having anything to wear i mean i had

01:09:06.540 affirmatively because i'm always prepared for any funeral anything i have i walk around with the

01:09:12.660 right dress i travel with clothes just in case something pops off so i was like if i'm not going

01:09:19.760 to do this thing i gotta tell my team i don't even want to have a dress ready yeah right because it's so

01:09:26.560 easy to just say let me do the right thing

01:09:30.080 again do we don't we don't ask a lot of our former first ladies we really don't we kind of forget about

01:09:39.720 them they can go off they can make their millions whatever we don't bother them was it really such a

01:09:45.060 big sacrifice to ask her to go show up at the inauguration you know do you think jill biden really

01:09:52.540 wanted to be there or laura bush for that matter you know hillary definitely wanted to be there for

01:09:58.320 different reasons but like you do it because the country likes these ceremonies i realize trump did

01:10:04.500 not go to the inauguration of joe biden that's a separate issue but she talks about it like i did what

01:10:11.660 was right for me something like i've never done before and for once i chose me glenn back the the same

01:10:21.160 theme runs throughout all of it yeah you know what i remember megan when i first started uh getting

01:10:29.340 public attention for my work and i've heard this from many other people too you know you can have

01:10:33.620 you can write something or you can do an interview and there's like 300 comments underneath and you

01:10:37.940 know they're all like very positive and praising of you like oh great job and such good points but

01:10:42.600 then there's that one that is like he seems really stupid or he's so dishonest and that's the one that

01:10:49.280 sticks in your head before you get accustomed to it until you realize like why am i so fixated on like

01:10:54.660 the negative comment when there's this you know mountain of praise that we also all get when our

01:10:59.580 work is public she seems never to have learned that lesson it's like i'm sure there was some commentary

01:11:05.160 about the fact that she didn't show up there and i think you're right like we all have obligations as

01:11:10.760 adult members of society to do certain things that we don't want to do that's probably what

01:11:15.120 distinguishes like being an adolescent from an adult it's what i'm trying to teach my kids right

01:11:19.500 now as they sort of enter late adolescence that that's what being an adult means and especially

01:11:25.240 when you have all these benefits from having assumed a certain position but okay like let's say she just

01:11:30.980 didn't really want to go was the commentary really so relentlessly negative that we have to hear about

01:11:36.880 her whining and also who listens to this show megan she's like i told my team don't have a dress ready

01:11:42.980 and like i don't think she even saying that sort of thing i don't think she realizes how

01:11:48.020 like odd and out of touch it is it's like in the middle of your rant you're talking about your team

01:11:54.240 responsible bag yeah i don't have a team that that packs my bags and i'd say get me ready for whatever

01:12:00.440 can pop up yeah and she has like every single designer in the world dying to provide her for free

01:12:06.880 like whatever their latest design is but she had to tell her team oh in this case i want to make sure

01:12:12.500 not to have a dress ready it's it's so it's just so like uh obsessed with her own the minutiae of her

01:12:20.740 own life but not even like in an interesting positive way right like hey i have this really

01:12:24.980 extraordinary life i want to tell you about what it is it's like this constant grievance accompanied by

01:12:30.500 this extraordinary life that she doesn't appreciate at all and wants everybody else to feel sorry for her

01:12:37.120 because not everybody universally universally reveres her it's just every time you show me

01:12:43.760 these clips i'm more and more amazed at what she's doing over there i mean honestly it's kind of an

01:12:49.800 interesting show because we're talking about these outsized personalities that in some cases love to

01:12:55.640 victimize others and in some cases love to play the victim like the first half hour was about the people

01:13:00.280 at 60 minutes like scott pelly and uh sharon alfonsi and uh bill owens who are who love to

01:13:09.300 criticize republicans and victimize republicans unfairly with their sound bites and so on and then

01:13:13.320 we move on to those who love to be the victim like that woman who came off the spacecraft and wanted to

01:13:19.000 talk about being survivor and then gail who's a victim because we're not seeing her as a shero and

01:13:23.980 then here's michelle obama first lady one of the richest most celebrated women in the world

01:13:27.220 and that will lead me to the perfect way to cap out this hour of television and that is with

01:13:31.280 megan markle now there is a reason i'm bringing her up not just because she fits perfectly in the

01:13:36.300 second half of our show which she does because she does because i might actually be having dinner with

01:13:43.940 her tonight you mean just you and her or as like at an event no i just thought it was a good tease

01:13:52.060 um no at the time 100 so the time 100 i i'll be honest i i have real reservations about the whole

01:13:59.960 thing i like that it's they say it's the 100 most influential people in the world i think the fact

01:14:05.720 that megan markle is going to be there is proof enough to everyone that it's not true okay but it's

01:14:10.320 never true so they just pick people who are in the news who they think they can have an event with

01:14:13.740 and i i so-called made the list back in 2014 after we launched the kelly file and i went it was cool and

01:14:19.840 i saw a lot of interesting people and back then i was still kind of starry-eyed about just news and

01:14:24.600 the fact that i had a prime time show you know it's exciting to rub some elbows and go to these

01:14:28.680 black tie events different story 11 years later so yes i made the list this year but honestly i

01:14:34.480 didn't make anything like i they put me on the list because they had to i just feel like yeah they

01:14:39.960 didn't give me anything they gave me nothing no one in the left wing press has given me anything

01:14:45.640 so i've really been wrestling do i go to this it's not important to me but i do kind of want to have

01:14:50.480 a photo on the red carpet just as like a i'm back you bitches on the left you know but that's not the

01:14:55.240 right motivation to do something so anyway i'm going to go because i'm told that both megan markle

01:15:01.260 and blake lively will be there and if i can get even a moment photograph like from far away with her in

01:15:08.740 the background i'm gonna break the internet glenn i'm going to break the internet so i only know about

01:15:13.540 the blake lively story from you so you have even just for that reason you have to go in and and

01:15:19.020 have some interaction with her after everything you've been saying and doing that's reason enough

01:15:23.360 blake lively was also there the first time i went so maybe i'll bring that up when i see her i'm sure

01:15:28.120 she really is going to want to talk to me um so megan markle sits down with the time magazine is it the

01:15:35.380 ceo it's a it's a woman uh who does yeah the ceo who does an interview with her in advance of

01:15:42.180 this event at which she's going to appear and i want to give you a sample of some of the questions

01:15:49.500 and the audience will not be surprised one bit to hear how miss markle refers to herself in her

01:15:58.340 answers watch this i want to talk about you as a founder as a ceo as an innovator as a creator as

01:16:07.820 an investor um we have the ceo of netflix here i did binge your show with love megan there's nothing

01:16:16.400 you can't do oh god amazing but what i'd love to do was always make things in my kitchen do small

01:16:23.280 flower arrangements take a lot of jam and uh when i was sending those as gifts one day bella said

01:16:29.840 there's a show here and i hadn't at the onset thought that that was something that i wanted to

01:16:35.880 to share in that way and creatively we worked as partners to really find a way for it to land and

01:16:42.180 for me to be able to share it and and just have fun which is really i think the goal in this chapter

01:16:48.180 how do you care for yourself oh thank you for asking that well look i think part of

01:16:54.320 for me part of what's really really important is that love language of taking care of people also

01:17:01.640 really feeds me and i think that is in many ways part of my self-care which it's my understanding

01:17:06.940 the first drop was sold out in 20 minutes 45 minutes okay your third platform which i love

01:17:14.320 is your podcast confessions of a female founder and you've had some of the most incredible

01:17:20.720 uh women on your show you're really supporting women and i love that we need more of that

01:17:26.380 you're a founder this is she gets this from megan markle's bio you they they ask you for your bio

01:17:35.640 and clearly she gave her the bio that listed herself as a founder innovator creator how are you

01:17:43.440 thank you for asking that philanthropist entrepreneur sure thank you right for asking about me because

01:17:50.040 no one knowing that she did that when she was uh just married to harry remember on that on that

01:17:54.400 african tour when she's in the midst of like all sorts of poverty and struggle and you know thank

01:17:59.220 you for asking about me because no one really has no one really has so here she is again thank you for

01:18:03.780 asking about me how that love language that that feeding of others is my self-care oh my god glenn

01:18:11.920 you i don't know i i don't know if you're mad at me uh uh about something but you have shown me

01:18:19.500 some of the most excruciating and unbearable footage i've seen in quite a long time one after

01:18:25.460 the next i really had to endure a lot i think that i guess that's fair but from these like women

01:18:31.600 astronauts complaining astronauts complaining that they're not taken seriously to michelle obama now to

01:18:37.560 this um this whole thing like thank you for asking me how i engage in my own self-care because as

01:18:45.420 people know i am one of the most exhausted one of the most uh people who have stopped i'm basically

01:18:52.040 living in the jungle and so people are always wondering but megan how about you you're taking

01:18:56.140 care of so many other people tell us what is it that you're doing to take care of yourself

01:19:00.240 thank you for asking me that nobody ever asked me that let me tell you what i'm doing finally to

01:19:05.160 take care of myself as well i mean megan if i were you i would go just to be around these satirical

01:19:12.380 idiots um and also as i said the blake lively uh opportunity and even the megan markle opportunity

01:19:19.100 by itself makes it it worthwhile i think it'll be good fodder for the show if nothing else um i feel

01:19:25.260 you glenn i feel you intensely but it's not every guest who can both talk about the megan markles of

01:19:30.860 the world with ease and go deep on abrigo garcia makmood khalil israel that's what makes you so special

01:19:38.520 tulsi all of it love love love that's why you're the megan kelly show godfather the godfather of

01:19:44.660 the megan kelly show exactly that's one of my the credentials on which i'm proudest thank you so much

01:19:50.760 for being here glenn see you always great to talk to you megan see you soon bye-bye all right coming

01:19:55.460 up next we have a legal expert he's been on the show before but i love this guy's a follow on twitter

01:20:01.360 and he's been second to none when it comes to covering all the legal battles that trump has found

01:20:07.440 himself immersed in that they're throwing at him for some clear thought we'll be joined by one of

01:20:12.340 mike davis's guys will chamberlain next are you a yo-yo dieter you diet lose weight and you gain it

01:20:19.440 all back plus a few and then later you lose it again and so on and so forth that can be dangerous

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01:20:58.220 at take lean.com that's mk20 at take lean.com i'm megan kelly host of the megan kelly show on serious xm

01:21:08.360 it's your home for open honest and provocative conversations with the most interesting and

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01:22:02.440 it has been the most intense legal news cycle with lawfare 2.0 doing everything they can to thwart the

01:22:13.600 president's agenda you know we had the resistance during trump 1.0 and now we have the lawfare in

01:22:19.000 trump 2.0 nowhere has that been more pronounced than with trump's election promise of mass deportations

01:22:25.220 with left-wing lawyers trying to block trump's use of the alien enemies act to remove trenda aragua

01:22:30.080 gang members and demanding the return of deported alleged ms 13 gang member kilmar abrigo garcia here to

01:22:37.520 help break this down in understandable language is one of the strongest voices on this issue and a

01:22:42.780 great follow on x it's will chamberlain he's senior counsel at the article 3 project which

01:22:48.300 our viewers know because they know and love mike davis will great to see you again great to be with

01:22:53.260 you megan okay so let's just start with the abrigo garcia case this is the guy who is who was found

01:22:59.640 by two courts to be ms 13 and uh they said you're deported but they said all right we'll suspend your

01:23:05.060 removal because we we've been convinced you shouldn't be shipped back to el salvador because

01:23:10.200 there's this gang there that you say wants to kill you that could have been lifted immediately

01:23:13.700 once that gang had been eliminated by the el salvadoran president we didn't really do anything

01:23:19.240 about it instead we just turned him out back in society he's been roaming for six years and then

01:23:23.900 tom holman found him and now he's become the poster boy for the left because we weren't technically

01:23:29.200 supposed to send him to el salvador we did but he has absolutely no right to stay in the united states

01:23:33.940 yeah something strange is happening something strange is happening in the case um where the

01:23:41.480 last two days the trump administration has been filing things under seal so that we can't see what

01:23:47.820 they are they filed their status report about him they're supposed to be telling everybody how he is

01:23:52.880 under seal and uh then they filed a different emotion to stay discovery in the case stop like

01:23:59.900 proceedings under seal and that was just granted the judge in this case paul azinas and obama appointee

01:24:06.620 agreed to stay discovery in this case until april 30th so she's put the whole thing on pause

01:24:12.680 now margo cleveland who also does a great job covering this for the federalist she had speculation her guess

01:24:18.660 was that possibly trump's working with the el salvadoran government to arrange for his release

01:24:24.360 not permanently but possibly to come back here step foot on u.s soil and then immediately be deported

01:24:30.360 to someplace other than el salvador which would completely erase the dems argument on him but what

01:24:36.080 do you make of this weirdness around him for the for the recent weirdness i i agree something the

01:24:42.460 government has somehow probably finagled his release from el salvador in prison because and the reason i say

01:24:49.140 that is judge vinnis had been very aggressive with the government about trying to locate this guy

01:24:55.320 and very dismissive of the government's concerns so for her to suddenly stop being so aggressive on that

01:25:02.220 front and agree to a week-long stay i don't see happening um on her own accord i don't see happening

01:25:08.300 unless there is some sort of arrangement being made for this guy to i don't who knows maybe be at the el salvador

01:25:15.860 embassy maybe just be released from custody in el salvador proper but something that the plaintiffs

01:25:21.720 would be okay with because the other thing is that the plaintiffs agreed to this day of discovery and

01:25:25.700 they they'd also been extremely aggressive in trying to get these things done all right so the latest news

01:25:31.160 on his case is not great for trump and maybe this is playing a role here and what's happening behind

01:25:36.000 the scenes maybe it's not but there was an economist you gov poll released yesterday that showed 50

01:25:40.760 percent of americans say trump should bring our brago garcia back to the u.s only 28 say he should

01:25:47.520 not 27 of americans say a brago garcia is a member of the ms 13 gang only 30 or 30 i should say believe

01:25:57.960 he is not a member of the gang 43 not sure this is obviously a result of the very biased media coverage

01:26:03.840 on this issue where everybody's been telling them that he's just a maryland dad but it's not a case that

01:26:10.640 trump wants to lose either the legal or the pr war on so what do you think he should do with this guy

01:26:17.280 at this point well i mean i think the the reasonable course here is to either with him still in el

01:26:24.200 salvador or when he's here you should go to court and get that withholding of removal lifted and you

01:26:28.940 can do that honestly without him even being present because you don't even need new evidence it's the

01:26:33.820 simplest way to get him removed is to say that because the immigration judge in the board of

01:26:38.580 immigration appeals found that he was a member of ms 13 that he's stopped from challenging that going

01:26:44.080 forward and since the government declared ms 13 a foreign terrorist organization it's just a

01:26:48.460 straightforward legal conclusion that the guy is no longer eligible for withholding of removal

01:26:52.560 and so he has to go back and that can be done if he needs to participate at all uh it can be done

01:26:58.860 via zoom he doesn't have to be on u.s soil correct yeah i mean and if you needed another argument i

01:27:04.460 don't think you would but it's the argument you just talked about the one about the fact that

01:27:07.900 the barrio 18 gang that supposedly is extorting his mother's pupusa shop well after its closure

01:27:14.220 uh that gang is no longer functional in el salvador because naibu kelly has transformed el salvador and

01:27:19.960 one of the safest countries in the western hemisphere wow so the shop is no longer there and the gang that

01:27:25.180 was targeting the business is no longer there and the only thing that's really no longer there is

01:27:30.340 abrigo garcia and he needs to be there uh he's in el salvador but not not yet free as far as we know

01:27:34.960 um you've been calling attention because a lot of people have been casting doubt now on these two

01:27:40.740 immigration courts findings that he is ms 13 they it came up in the context of a should we give him

01:27:46.480 bond while we're trying to decide what to do with him and two judges said no we should not this guy's ms

01:27:51.620 13 people aren't buying it because they're not following people like you on x and following actual

01:27:56.780 reporting one of the reasons they say he's probably not his defenders and even um the district court

01:28:02.920 judge in this case said well he um they said this this informant said he was a member of the quote

01:28:10.320 westerns click within ms 13 and that group only operates on long island in new york and he's in

01:28:18.240 maryland so aha the the confidential informant was wrong and he can't be ms 13

01:28:24.260 uh yeah except that the western clique does actually operate in maryland and doj has routinely

01:28:31.320 claimed that in any number of filings plea agreements indictments um i am unclear that the plaintiffs this

01:28:38.300 claim came from the underlying complaint just filed by one plaintiff's lawyer where he said that the doj

01:28:43.900 has said um that they operate in new york a place where abrigo garcia has never lived as far as i can tell

01:28:50.240 uh he basically just invented this out of thin air uh based on doing one quick search on the doj website

01:28:58.400 for western clique ms 13 and there's only one result that pops up which is this double murder

01:29:04.380 where a member of the western clique was actually a victim of the double murder but it has no analysis

01:29:09.680 of where does the western clique operate and ms 13 cliques operate all around the country they're i mean

01:29:16.040 they're generally it's you know part of the history of ms 13 as i've recently learned is you know it's

01:29:21.240 it started when a bunch of el salvadoran uh gangbangers were deported back to el salvador i think in under

01:29:26.760 the reagan administration and then they you know took over el salvador largely and then they started

01:29:32.340 sending that you know the the cliques were actually named after streets in los angeles but they ended up

01:29:36.640 sending people all over the country so yeah the western clique operates in maryland uh doj has said that

01:29:41.020 repeatedly and it's honestly if i were judge zinnis i'd be really embarrassed and very angry at the

01:29:47.020 plaintiff's lawyer because basically his complaint had to be put a blatant and obvious falsehood in my

01:29:52.780 opinion right um you point out that there's a at least a november 1st 2011 rico indictment that's

01:30:00.320 racketeering it's like gang it's they used to go after the mob and sometimes gangs by the government

01:30:05.320 against members of ms 13 not this guy but in that they argued specifically that ms 13 affiliates

01:30:12.800 affiliates operate within the washington dc metro area including the western clique so it's in i didn't

01:30:19.740 realize it's clique instead of clique in any event it's in writing right there from the federal

01:30:23.260 government long predating donald trump this is 2011 that would have been barack obama's um doj saying

01:30:30.400 that so the other thing is they say well you can't use the fact that he was wearing a hoodie

01:30:34.820 a chicago bulls hoodie and and cap against him but we've taken a look at the immigration judge who

01:30:44.020 initially denied the bond to him and the truth is well she placed almost no importance on that and

01:30:49.600 she wrote that she was placing almost no importance on that but the truth is also it is very relevant that

01:30:56.780 is how they dress correct and i think honestly the most relevant piece of information which again was

01:31:02.820 omitted from all the public media reporting was that the guy was arrested in the company of two

01:31:07.420 other confirmed members of ms 13 you don't hang out with those guys i mean you know when i go get coffee

01:31:14.300 sometimes i guess i get bored but the the concept being that like that that you ask a normal person

01:31:20.380 on the street well what would be the most relevant evidence of this person being ms 13 i don't know

01:31:24.600 hanging out with ms 13 members uh and as a result you know you you see this poll and it's totally a

01:31:31.320 product of the the plaintiff's lawyer and uh the media working together to just put out falsehoods

01:31:38.460 and otherwise mislead both judges and the public uh and it's pretty clear that the guy is ms 13

01:31:45.040 and you know oddly enough i think ultimately it really shouldn't matter that much because he is an

01:31:50.800 illegal alien and he was you know he was crossing into the country in 2012 got detained in 2019

01:31:56.760 and somehow still is here in 2025 i mean it shouldn't matter but in the sense that there's

01:32:02.420 this massive pr campaign to try and get this guy back well yeah he is actually an ms 13 and also he's

01:32:06.980 a wife beater and i don't know why we are eager to return this guy to his family uh when you know he

01:32:13.800 was beating his u.s citizen wife and people assume well the wife says she wants him back it's like well i mean

01:32:19.760 is she afraid of what his colleagues might do to her there's there's a whole bunch of interesting

01:32:24.100 dynamics that aren't really being explored here that is a very good question she went on good

01:32:31.180 morning america last week when this whole thing was like coming to a point and um her attempted

01:32:37.560 rehabilitation of him after it broke that she had accused him of being a wife beater was pathetic i mean

01:32:44.640 it was absolutely half-hearted and i hadn't even considered until you just said it that it was

01:32:50.180 out of fear of what some of the other ms 13 gang members might do we're going to pull it over i'll

01:32:56.180 play it one second as soon as we have it before we get to that though um you pointed out that another

01:33:01.520 great twitter follow is which is a guy who goes by shipwrecked crew uh on substack and this guy had

01:33:09.100 some very interesting posts about ice and how it operates and this was news too he was calling to

01:33:15.180 our attention that the determination by ice and maryland police for that matter that abrigo garcia

01:33:21.880 was a member of ms 13 was not made lightly and he points out because these determinations are

01:33:26.900 absolutely critical in preventing violence inside either a jail or a detention center that while you

01:33:34.360 and i are going about our lives wondering whether it's click or clique the people who have to arrest

01:33:38.640 these people and then put them in detention centers or jails actually must figure out whether

01:33:44.220 they're gang members and which gang correct yeah i mean i think bill shipley uh who goes by shipwrecked

01:33:52.120 crew on twitter he had a number of really interesting points that was a key one um yeah because they

01:33:57.980 fight internally right exactly and i mean you think you realize immigration judges probably handle

01:34:03.460 ms 13 issues and you know foreign gang issues far more often than a district court judge who you know

01:34:09.600 is dealing with a wide sprawling variety of cases as opposed to an immigration judge who's just seeing

01:34:14.360 um deportation and removal in front of them so i think one of you know there's a big meta issue

01:34:20.720 with regard to the lack of respect being accorded to the immigration judge and the immigration courts here

01:34:25.620 i mean if you read that district court opinion it just completely dismisses the findings of

01:34:30.100 the original immigration judge um as being based on nothing based on sparse evidence and and she's

01:34:36.460 doing this on on you know in the posture of reviewing an injunction where she hasn't gotten any real

01:34:42.180 factual record developed in front of her she just is i mean she was just taking the word of the

01:34:46.180 plaintiff's lawyer and the complaint which was we discussed earlier was really not a very credible

01:34:50.340 person that's right not not worthy of trusting whatsoever and then another point i saw this too in

01:34:56.420 annie mccarthy's article over at national review that that abrigo garcia's defenders are making um is

01:35:03.160 that uh i don't want to screw it up is that there's been no evidence since 2019 and that immigration judge

01:35:10.500 and then the appellate court above her that he's a member of ms 13 like maybe he's no longer a member

01:35:16.400 of ms 13 maybe he's like a reformed member of ms 13 but this guy bill shipley is pointing out

01:35:23.560 that his own complaint reveals that after he was arrested in march by ice quote he was shown several

01:35:30.060 photos where he appeared in public and asked about other people in those photos but was unable to

01:35:34.420 provide any information on them as he did not know them or anything about them now that that his

01:35:40.700 defenders say is proof he didn't know these gang members like he doesn't know he has no idea

01:35:45.680 and shipwreck crew and you see it differently yeah it seems like if they're asking him these questions

01:35:52.200 they're kind of wondering like or do you know this person because they probably identified him as

01:35:56.580 maybe an ms 13 gang member himself maybe they know uh maybe they don't but the fact that he would

01:36:02.800 renounce knowing people in photos when being asked by police is not proof that that is true it's not

01:36:08.300 proof that he doesn't know those people it's even more sketchy yeah i'm not one to believe that gang

01:36:13.820 members are particularly fulsome with police especially ones that have a low you know a gang motto of

01:36:19.020 see no evil hear no evil speak no evil uh yes i think it actually might be see nothing he say not

01:36:24.160 hear nothing you know might might not quite be that but it's something along those lines they um yeah

01:36:30.500 he's pointing out here that um every ice office would have prioritized their targets based on their

01:36:37.140 own files uh the prince george's county maryland uh law enforcement that they have an ms 13 gang unit

01:36:44.340 um and obviously they have an ms 13 gang problem uh and so it's you know all these things sort of

01:36:50.860 come together and then there was the wife and that exchange on gma here it is

01:36:54.820 and and i know this is a sensitive question but i have to ask it you you did take out a temporary

01:37:02.540 order of protection against your husband in 2021 were you in fear of your husband

01:37:07.400 husband is alive um that's all i can say what okay then you know i'm not gonna push on that

01:37:21.180 apparently i mean will it's not a great answer no it's not and i think maybe you know this is where

01:37:29.640 maybe you originally think oh she's covering for him but i think there's you know you can see her

01:37:33.740 pause and think really hard for a second and and i think that's that's where you know my analysis or

01:37:39.320 my theory is that's fear uh and that's fear of saying the wrong thing and what will what will

01:37:44.480 happen to her if she does um i mean if if he is indeed an ms 13 ms 13 still operates in maryland

01:37:50.560 uh and i'm sure they are not keen on people ratting out uh their members for even you know beating

01:37:58.080 their wives i don't assume they have some you know internal hr processes in ms 13 to deal with

01:38:02.640 domestic abuse so uh the other thing is the smuggling the alleged human smuggling or trafficking

01:38:09.760 because this came out um i think it was the tennessee star that first broke it but he was

01:38:14.500 pulled over in a tooth in 2022 in a car and um the the evidence that just the news just came out with

01:38:22.260 this report which is interesting they say uh he was stopped by police in an suv owned by a man who

01:38:27.140 was himself deported after pleading guilty to smuggling illegal aliens in 2020 well that's not great

01:38:32.140 that's that's his bud some guy who pleaded guilty already to smuggling illegal aliens into the

01:38:38.240 country in 2020 citing homeland security uh intel and on top of that they go on to say that uh the

01:38:46.880 el salvadoran driving the car was driving a black 2001 chevy suburban said he was transporting his

01:38:52.020 passengers to maryland from texas for construction work although the state trooper found no luggage in

01:38:58.000 the suv these are bad facts for mr abrigo garcia he's not the driver but he's in the car why why

01:39:04.140 what's the story with this guy then they say the owner of the vehicles had been identified as jose

01:39:08.800 ramon hernandez reyes abrigo garcia told the state trooper that the owner was his boss uh they say let's

01:39:16.760 see um baltimore field office they said believe this belonged to a target they suspected of human

01:39:22.220 trafficking or smuggling and it's all of this is circumstantial evidence but it's powerful and

01:39:28.040 these people who don't believe he's an ms 13 have heard none of it i i mean i think it's clear this

01:39:33.580 abrigo garcia is ms 13 that's certainly my conclusion based on these facts it doesn't matter though right

01:39:39.620 like that the bottom line that people need to remember is we do not in any way need to show that

01:39:44.760 in order to keep him out of this country correct i mean he's he's an illegal alien everybody admits he's an

01:39:51.160 illegal alien uh he shouldn't have been granted withholding and removal in the first place you

01:39:56.940 know just the preposterousness of his story the fact that he was originally found to be ms 13 but

01:40:02.040 he doesn't just have a right to be here because he hasn't been formally convicted of a crime or

01:40:07.120 formally convicted of being an ms 13 none of that matters it's illegal aliens don't have a right to be

01:40:12.500 in the united states i feel like you know part of the red big red herring that comes from the left

01:40:17.460 on immigration is the idea that it's like well was he convicted of a crime well who cares

01:40:22.300 ultimately who cares it's just that's yeah just a question of priority it's not a question of

01:40:28.520 deportability yeah it's you you can be a perfectly nice person you actually can be really sweet and

01:40:34.100 we can still kick your ass out of here if you're here illegally that's just the way it is

01:40:37.160 it's it becomes relevant because trump is using for example um the alien enemies act to get rid of

01:40:45.920 some of these people and under the alien enemies act he's declared an incursion for by the venezuelan

01:40:52.020 trend to aragua members saying you know we're under a special kind of threat and um he's saying that

01:40:58.580 gang members are terrorists too which allows him a more expedited removal pursuant to his proclamation

01:41:03.900 so it gives him additional layers of authority to eject this guy but he doesn't need them those are all

01:41:09.800 belts and suspenders and ways of getting him out faster we we hoped and and just more expeditiously

01:41:16.480 but they've gummed it up the aclu at every turn so we think that probably we're going to be able to

01:41:24.180 keep abrigo garcia out it's just a question of whether we're going to give him some sort of a zoom

01:41:28.300 hearing or something but do you think he'll ever step foot on u.s soil with our consent anyway again

01:41:33.960 i mean only to immediately be whisked into a detention center so that further proceedings

01:41:40.280 can be had on his removal that i mean it's quite possible that they'll decide to you know because

01:41:44.740 obviously judge zinnis wants him back and we've had all this you know shenanigans or secret events

01:41:50.240 going on at the court uh filings under seal so i think in that event in the event that he uh you know

01:41:56.820 they've actually found a way to get him released from el salvador he'll he'll set foot on american soil

01:42:00.600 only to be whisked into detention okay now what is your thought on how trump is getting away with

01:42:08.840 shipping all these people to el salvador and imprisoning them indefinitely because my understanding

01:42:15.920 is bukele said they're going to stay in that jail for a year and then we'll see so this is where you

01:42:23.580 know even i have some problems because we can't just ship people off you know out of the country put

01:42:29.480 them in jail and throw away the key forever that's we don't have that right we do have the right to

01:42:33.900 deport them and we have the right to hold them for some period of time until we've determined that

01:42:37.060 they're deportable but um i'm not sure how we're getting to goodbye and you're in jail forever

01:42:43.760 so i think the key distinction here is between the venezuelan trend aragua members and the

01:42:50.360 salvadorans like abrigo garcia so for the salvadorans like abrigo garcia my understanding based on

01:42:57.200 having read a lot of briefing is those individuals are simply deported nationals returned to el

01:43:04.080 salvador in custody there's not a continuing arrangement for the government our government

01:43:08.440 to be paying for them to be held there are el salvadoran nationals who are illegal aliens el

01:43:13.200 salvador has an obligation to take them in and then what they do with them is that you know within

01:43:17.160 the discretion of the salvadoran government and the salvadoran people as for trend aragua the problem

01:43:23.300 there is that the venezuelan government has refused repatriation flights they'd refuse to take these

01:43:27.500 people back and so uh that creates a problem because then you have to find a third country to take them

01:43:33.060 and it's pretty challenging to find a third country willing to take uh hardened gangsters who you know

01:43:37.840 took over an apartment complex in colorado uh so the i i see the the the fact that they're in el

01:43:45.600 salvador and secot as sort of this temporary place where they're going to be until venezuela agrees to

01:43:51.060 own up to their responsibility and take back their nationals who are in our country illegally

01:43:55.520 and there was news earlier this week of some sort of a prisoner swap between el salvador and venezuela

01:44:02.640 i can't remember exactly what the details of it were but it certainly suggested that that could be the

01:44:07.660 end you know the end game here i don't know how maybe venezuela will take them back if i don't know

01:44:15.980 they want to get rid of their own el salvadorans back to bukele i have no idea what the what the

01:44:19.500 venezuelans get out of taking back trenda aragua gang members but it better that that it's their

01:44:25.020 problem than ours is the bottom line that thing about the ms13 gang members is very interesting

01:44:29.160 though i didn't realize that but it makes sense because what bukele has done with that prison

01:44:32.960 and the reason he's made el salvador so safe is because he's locked up all the gang members in el

01:44:38.640 salvador of which we believe abrigo garcia is one so if bukele is convinced and by the way he is

01:44:44.920 that this guy is ms13 he is going into that prison

01:44:48.660 yeah and maybe not maybe because there's so much american interest in this he'll be held in a nicer

01:44:55.460 prison because he wants to keep chris van holland and and all the other goofballs in the you know

01:45:00.200 democrat house caucus half be happy okay uh but it's i think it's just a different way to look at

01:45:06.900 the problem like you know there's just this default assumption that abrigo garcia and other

01:45:11.480 salvadorans were sent there and are and are being held at the u.s government's request it's like no

01:45:16.220 no they're salvadorans this is where they go they they yeah and and you if you're upset with bukele's

01:45:22.040 policy then then take it up with the el salvadorans hire some el salvadoran lawyers and try and get them

01:45:25.980 off there let's switch to alien enemies act which is the the declaration that trump made that we're

01:45:33.700 suffering an incursion or an invasion and this does swoop up trenda aragua members and it's allowed

01:45:41.000 him to deport a bunch of them and he's he wants to deport a whole lot more by saying i'm going to

01:45:46.920 use this extraordinary act that will very much limit the due process i have to afford any of these people

01:45:51.440 and that's a that's a plus because you don't want to give everybody lengthy due process or this will

01:45:56.780 take forever and he's only on the criminals so far when he gets to the you know you're illegal but

01:46:02.300 you didn't break another law it's going to get even more controversial these deportations

01:46:06.280 the supreme court stopped on friday night his use of that act to deport anybody and mike davis with

01:46:13.020 you at article three was tweeting out yesterday hello uh you know co-president uh john roberts

01:46:18.860 when are we going to be able to continue the important international policy work and military

01:46:24.240 work of getting rid of these threats to the united states uh you know let us know when we can resume

01:46:29.880 and so far the supreme court hasn't said anything we don't know when a decision is coming

01:46:33.760 or frankly at this point well i don't even know if the decision is coming from the lower court the

01:46:38.140 fifth circuit court of appeals or from the u.s supreme court talk about what you think is happening

01:46:42.780 here well i think what's going to happen is they're going to have to list lift this administrative stay

01:46:48.920 if they want to ever preserve any legitimacy they have and it's not even the substance aside they

01:46:54.740 didn't have jurisdiction because there was no lower court ruling to review the supreme court is a

01:47:01.340 court of review not first view and the all writs act which is the basis on which they exercise they

01:47:06.620 tried to give this injunction is only gives you it only allows you to issue writs in aid of your

01:47:12.200 underlying jurisdiction if there was never a lower court opinion then what's going to the supreme court

01:47:16.600 is so-called original jurisdiction and we know if you know if you're a lawyer and you remember your

01:47:20.800 con law that's for like when a state is letting you know is litigating against another state the

01:47:26.480 supreme court hears the case in the first instance but that's it so uh i mean it's a brazen error

01:47:32.640 uh procedurally and you know all this talk i mean i my basic understanding of what actually happened

01:47:38.520 here is that the aclu spazzed out and then the uh supreme court took them at their word uh and the

01:47:44.300 aclu did all sorts of crazy litigation stuff like they went to the district court told them they had

01:47:49.100 42 minutes to get their opinion out before we go to the appellate court and treat it as a

01:47:52.980 constructive denial they you know the district court didn't rule it only had 40 minutes they

01:47:58.060 went to the appellate court did the same thing and went to the supreme court yeah i know it's

01:48:03.000 such a strange thing for the u.s supreme court to act that quickly the aclu says it had to happen

01:48:08.020 because they were loading these guys up on buses and they were told that they were going to el

01:48:13.840 salvador and when we got that ruling from the supreme court or when we filed our motion they turned

01:48:19.080 those buses around which they think is proof that trump was again about to deport a bunch of people

01:48:25.040 even though he knew that there were motions trying to stop it yeah and i'm also at the point where i

01:48:31.260 just simply don't believe what the lawyers for immigrant you know the plaintiffs in these cases

01:48:34.960 say anymore like i i i have a default skepticism of what they say so you know maybe they say oh this

01:48:40.340 is why the bus is turned around i would point out that well you seem to know who your plaintiffs were

01:48:45.160 and who got these notices which means they got notice and had time to file the habeas petition

01:48:49.680 which is exactly what the supreme court demanded in the opinion that came out a couple weeks ago

01:48:54.760 mm-hmm um do you think that trump will ultimately be upheld on his use of the alien enemies act

01:49:02.100 because the high court hasn't yet adjudicated that it will eventually yeah i think so i because i i don't

01:49:08.860 think that the judiciary is competent to determine whether when there has been a predatory incursion

01:49:15.900 or a military invasion they have no intelligence services they have no military they don't know

01:49:21.720 what the president knows um so you know in every other context where that's the case that the amount

01:49:26.800 of deference given to the executive is massive so you know as there was like a district judge in

01:49:32.580 colorado who just enjoined this whole thing herself on the basis of saying well this doesn't seem

01:49:37.940 like a predatory incursion to me it's like well who are you and what do you know i mean this is

01:49:43.760 not it's not your call right um i think you're right i've been saying they've been arguing with a lot

01:49:49.860 of people over this i just don't think how can the supreme court have the final say on what a

01:49:53.720 predatory incursion is and whether whether this is one i just by what standard will they judge that

01:49:58.300 i just don't i don't see it that's the commander-in-chief's call and i think i believe chief justice

01:50:03.160 john roberts is going to know that i think they'll limit their review to whether these people have had

01:50:08.060 adequate due process before they're adjudicated terrorists or gang members under the trump

01:50:14.880 executive order that invokes the act and i think you and i are probably on the same page that that

01:50:20.080 due process is going to be very limited it's even i mean it's just there's no way it's going to be

01:50:25.980 much more than you get a hearing you get a notice that you're going to be deported and you get a

01:50:31.360 hearing at which they decide whether you are deportable right i think the the only hiccup here

01:50:38.380 is that essentially i think the supreme court will ultimately say that they need a chance to

01:50:42.800 prove they're not trend to iraq right that's that you have the chance to prove that they're not in

01:50:46.960 the class of alien enemies that are covered by the proclamation yep and who knows what that looks

01:50:53.220 like i think my guess is it'll be more efficient than normal the normal process which allows you to

01:50:57.900 get access to you know argue for withholding of removal argue that you shouldn't be

01:51:01.340 sent to the country based on the convention against torture um but it who knows it might

01:51:06.280 actually be less efficient it's possible i think that that's that's what the aclu is ultimately

01:51:10.080 fighting for they're trying to they they i don't think they think they can stop the use of the alien

01:51:14.320 enemies act but if they can gum it up enough to make it uh you know as slow or only slightly

01:51:19.960 more efficient than normal immigration processes then maybe the administration stops

01:51:23.380 trying to use the alien enemies act yes uh this just in trump has just asked the u.s supreme

01:51:29.500 court to allow him to enforce the transgender military ban that was another executive order

01:51:35.500 where he said i no more trans people in the military uh there's too many reasons not not to

01:51:41.380 allow them i mean you can't you're not supposed to be in if you have anxiety so it's like if you've

01:51:46.680 got the number of issues that come with being trans it makes perfect sense but he's been stopped

01:51:51.120 by a lower court judge who said no i don't think you're gonna succeed in defending that executive

01:51:56.300 order i think it's going to be thrown out as a violative of the u.s constitution's fifth amendment

01:52:01.140 right to equal protection under the law and therefore i'm in i'm banning you from enforcing it

01:52:06.480 while this case plays out it was a seattle-based judge and now they are asking the u.s supreme court team

01:52:13.440 trump to lift that ban on so that they can fire these trans people from the military and then let the

01:52:21.920 case play out on the merits how do you like his chances in getting that ban lifted i like his

01:52:27.120 chances i think there's been a cultural shift also at the supreme court you know we have the

01:52:30.400 hearings about the craziness going on in montgomery county uh where you know they're trying to force

01:52:35.200 kids to listen to you know discussions of bondage or something and telling them it's like well you can

01:52:40.260 just unenroll in the school if you don't like it uh so and i you know the questions from people

01:52:45.140 like gorsuch made clear they didn't think very much of those arguments i think in general they're

01:52:49.520 going to look at this and say especially when it comes to military readiness you know i mean i have

01:52:52.920 add for example and if i were young enough to join the military that would be sufficient to block me

01:52:57.020 from from joining up uh if add is a sufficient disorder to constitute that i don't know how

01:53:01.940 believing you know that you were born into the wrong gender and that you need massive physical

01:53:05.360 surgery to to change yourself isn't also something that should bar you from military service

01:53:10.600 so net net your take on the lawfare against trump

01:53:15.120 i mean the lawfare against trump is remarkably aggressive so there's a part of it that's a

01:53:22.420 product of the fact that this trump administration is much more aggressive than the first one they're

01:53:26.600 trying to push the limits a little more to see where their power lies so you'd expect a few more

01:53:32.080 injunctions with that said the judiciary has reacted in an unbelievably aggressive manner and the

01:53:39.120 constitutional crisis is being created by the judiciary i mean just you know again look at that supreme

01:53:44.840 court ruling that just came out where they literally took a case without jurisdiction and issued an

01:53:49.560 injunction on good friday evening uh they have an unbelievably quick trigger finger with the trump

01:53:55.420 administration both district judges and apparently now the supreme court and they got to get it together

01:54:00.180 because you know they they need to follow their own rules and their own laws uh if they're going to

01:54:05.420 start accusing the administration of wild law breaking

01:54:08.360 mm-hmm oh well so good to talk to you i love your clear-eyed analysis on all these like very murky

01:54:16.200 issues really appreciate it please come back absolutely great to be with you megan i see you soon

01:54:22.580 all right before we go i wanted to tell you that our first mk media show the nerve with maureen

01:54:28.260 callahan launched this week in the premiere episode it's so good maureen's she tells a very funny story

01:54:34.600 right off the top about what happened after she left this show for that megan markle parody episode

01:54:41.020 we did you've got it you'll laugh uh but in her premiere episode she dives into the topic of mean

01:54:46.420 girls and why they only get meaner as they get older and she exposes a terrible story about actor

01:54:53.220 john ham my god i didn't know anything about this but she took a deep dive uh into allegations from his

01:55:00.380 past which i think you'll find interesting here is maureen just a clip on how she says uh john ham

01:55:07.560 was able to avoid scrutiny for this alleged hazing incident from years ago by getting involved with

01:55:15.100 the hollywood in crowd watch the theory about them is that they were never the homecoming queens

01:55:22.260 they were the comedy nerd girls who kind of didn't fit in and a guy like john ham comes along and pays

01:55:29.920 them some attention and their knees buckle they can't believe it they can't believe a guy this

01:55:35.460 hot would look twice at them and so they're doing dirty work for him in my opinion you can't tell me

01:55:41.380 they don't know about this if i know about it they have to know about it and now we all know about it

01:55:47.960 she's doing a great job already and she didn't seem nervous at all you got to watch or listen to the

01:55:53.940 show to get maureen's full reporting and analysis of the story john ham even responded to it

01:55:58.260 after being pressed on it by the daily mail go ahead and subscribe and follow maureen at

01:56:02.420 the nerve show.com the nerve on all youtube podcast platforms and social accounts episode two is out

01:56:10.860 tomorrow we are back tomorrow with another mk media host mark halperin joins us for the full show we'll

01:56:17.700 see you then thanks for listening to the megan kelly show no bs no agenda and no fear

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The Megyn Kelly Show - April 24, 2025

60 Minutes' Failures, Michelle Obama's New Complaints, and Abrego Garcia Truth, with Glenn Greenwald and Will Chamberlain ｜ Ep. 1056

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