The Megyn Kelly Show - 9⧸11 20 Years Later and Biden's Vaccine Mandate, with Rep. Dan Crenshaw, Debra Burlingame, Frank Siller, and Shannen Coffin ｜ Ep. 157

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00:00:46.140 Welcome to The Megyn Kelly Show, your home for open, honest, and provocative conversations.

00:00:51.740 Hey, everyone, I'm Megyn Kelly. Welcome to The Megyn Kelly Show.

00:01:01.140 Just a few short months after saying he did not think the COVID vaccine should be mandatory,

00:01:07.040 President Biden is now forcing mass vaccinations for millions of Americans

00:01:11.320 in order just to keep their jobs and including strict new measures on private businesses.

00:01:17.920 Here is the president yesterday announcing his sweeping action.

00:01:21.720 This is not about freedom or personal choice.

00:01:25.560 It's about protecting yourself and those around you.

00:01:29.580 I'm announcing that the Department of Labor is developing an emergency rule

00:01:34.120 to require all employers with 100 or more employees that together employ over 80 million workers

00:01:42.740 to ensure their workforces are fully vaccinated or show a negative test at least once a week.

00:01:52.040 We'll be requiring vaccinations at all nursing home workers.

00:01:56.120 Tonight, I'm using that same authority to expand that to cover those who work in hospitals,

00:02:02.280 home health care facilities, or other medical facilities.

00:02:05.880 A total of 17 million health care workers.

00:02:09.340 And I've signed another executive order that will require federal contractors to do the same.

00:02:14.320 The vaccine requirements in my plan will affect about 100 million Americans,

00:02:21.040 two-thirds of all workers.

00:02:23.660 That will require all of nearly 300,000 educators in the federal head-paid program Head Start program.

00:02:32.340 Must be vaccinated as well.

00:02:33.620 I'm calling on all governors to require vaccination for all teachers and staff.

00:02:39.000 These governors won't help us beat the pandemic.

00:02:40.900 I'll use my power as president to get them out of the way.

00:02:45.360 We've been patient, but our patience is wearing thin.

00:02:50.200 And your refusal has cost all of us.

00:02:54.560 Okay, Daddy.

00:02:55.940 I mean, that's really how he sounds, right?

00:02:58.100 Remember those days?

00:02:59.320 My patience is wearing thin.

00:03:01.200 Your behavior is costing everyone in this family.

00:03:03.380 Except he's not our daddy.

00:03:04.920 And there are limits to what a president can do.

00:03:07.240 He's not a king.

00:03:07.980 The Constitution was designed to make sure he would not be. 0.72

00:03:11.860 He's threatening the governors.

00:03:13.240 He's going to use his power as president to get them out of the way.

00:03:17.160 What does that mean?

00:03:18.940 Sorry to break it to you, King Joe, but you don't have the power to get governors out of the way.

00:03:25.560 And so there's already a battle unfolding like that between DeSantis down in Florida and between President Biden.

00:03:33.360 And he is trying to get Governor DeSantis out of the way because he's trying to allow vaccine mandates at the school district level that DeSantis is trying to stop.

00:03:41.460 DeSantis said, I'm going to defund the school board members who, you know, issue vaccine mandates that I've said are unlawful.

00:03:48.680 And Biden's saying, well, I'm going to refund.

00:03:51.040 I'm going to give that money back to those school boards.

00:03:53.880 Whose money is that?

00:03:54.680 How's he going to do that?

00:03:55.600 None of that is clear.

00:03:56.920 Here's the sad truth.

00:03:59.180 There is precedence for allowing vaccine mandates.

00:04:04.500 And unfortunately, there's precedent for federal and state laws to allow private businesses to require vaccines.

00:04:10.820 Vaccine mandates today are imposed by states and the courts so far have found that they're OK.

00:04:20.820 That's that's how it's gone so far.

00:04:22.800 Now, that doesn't mean that every single vaccine mandate is going to be OK.

00:04:26.800 Typically, they get upheld because states have the ability to regulate the health and safety of their citizens.

00:04:32.440 That's why the state can issue mandates, though typically not the feds.

00:04:35.720 They don't have police power over us.

00:04:37.560 And there have been cases in the past.

00:04:39.620 The Seventh Circuit Court of Appeals, that's in the middle of the country.

00:04:43.600 They recently found that there is no fundamental right to refuse a vaccine.

00:04:50.020 How about that?

00:04:50.620 There's no fundamental right to refuse a vaccine.

00:04:55.020 That's kind of scary.

00:04:56.780 So what?

00:04:57.460 We're at a point where the government can hold you down and stick the needle in your arm because you don't have a right to say no.

00:05:02.440 All right.

00:05:02.700 Joining me now is Alan Dershowitz, professor emeritus at Harvard Law School.

00:05:05.940 Alan, can you hear me?

00:05:06.840 I can hear you fine.

00:05:07.680 Thank you for having me on.

00:05:08.720 All right.

00:05:09.440 Thank you for being here.

00:05:10.400 So is this lawful?

00:05:12.000 Is this constitutional?

00:05:13.180 There are three independent issues.

00:05:15.240 One, is this something the federal government can mandate as distinguished from the state government?

00:05:19.500 Is there a federal police power that overcomes the state police power?

00:05:23.660 That's number one.

00:05:24.320 Number two, if the federal government can do it, can they issue such a broad mandate?

00:05:30.520 Can they make people take a vaccine as a condition to work in?

00:05:33.860 And third, if the federal government can do it, and this is the most important one, is it in the hands of the president, the executive branch, as distinguished from the legislative branch?

00:05:43.620 In my new book, the case for vaccine mandates, I argue, yes, the federal government can do it because it crosses state borders.

00:05:50.960 But no, probably the president cannot do it, except in the event of a dire emergency.

00:05:58.000 Now, this is a problem that's lasted for a long time.

00:06:00.800 There's a 75-day window of opportunity.

00:06:03.020 So it's going to be hard to justify it as an emergency.

00:06:06.400 This should have been left to the legislature.

00:06:09.380 Congress should pass this mandate, not the president.

00:06:12.520 But the president has been expanding powers.

00:06:15.200 President Trump did it.

00:06:16.220 President Obama did it.

00:06:17.360 President Biden has done it.

00:06:18.860 It's not what the Constitution intended.

00:06:20.940 They intended laws to be made by the legislature and then enforced by the executive.

00:06:26.440 Yes, he really sounded like a king yesterday.

00:06:28.980 Our patience is wearing thin and your refusal has cost us.

00:06:31.620 These governors won't help.

00:06:33.580 I will get them out of the way.

00:06:35.500 Well, how are you getting rid of the governor of Florida?

00:06:38.620 How are you going to do that?

00:06:40.620 No, it's it's you know, there's room for a bully pulpit.

00:06:44.780 I commend the president for urging people to get vaccinated.

00:06:47.640 They should get vaccinated unless they have medical conditions.

00:06:51.480 But you can't get rid of the governor.

00:06:53.580 This thing is going to be litigated up because you are ready.

00:06:56.360 There are lawsuits that are being filed.

00:06:58.200 And I don't think anybody knows how the Supreme Court is going to resolve any of those three

00:07:03.560 issues, state versus federal.

00:07:05.040 Does the federal government have the power to do it?

00:07:06.640 And if so, does the president, as the single from the legislature, have the power to do it?

00:07:11.280 I suspect that this court's going to say that not the president, but the legislature, and

00:07:16.800 that they can't sustain the constitutionality of 100 million people being mandated to be vaccinated

00:07:22.600 without legislative authority.

00:07:24.660 If it's lawful for the president to do this, we've got to be asking ourselves why, you know,

00:07:31.820 back to the we didn't want a king.

00:07:33.680 We fought a whole war so that we wouldn't have one.

00:07:36.400 How could it be with a stroke of his pen?

00:07:38.520 He changes life for 100 million people without it being approved, especially when Alan in December,

00:07:44.960 in December, he said he wouldn't support mandatory vaccines.

00:07:48.440 Walensky, chief of the CDC, she said on July 30th, there will be no federal mandate.

00:07:54.080 Hey, Jen Psaki, end of July, our role is not to place blame and so on.

00:07:57.620 So all along, they've been saying this is not the way we're going.

00:08:01.720 Well, and vice president said, if, you know, if Congress makes me do it, I'll do it.

00:08:08.020 But if President Trump says I'm going to do it, I'm not going to do it.

00:08:10.720 You can't have rules that say it's good for one president, not for another.

00:08:15.020 Look, there's been an expansion of federal power from the New Deal on.

00:08:18.860 You know, President Roosevelt locked up 100,000 American citizens without congressional, explicit

00:08:25.520 congressional authorization.

00:08:27.600 We're still in a state of emergency for the Korean War.

00:08:31.280 There's too much executive power.

00:08:33.660 It's a republic if we can keep it, said Benjamin Franklin.

00:08:36.960 And that means legislative authority.

00:08:40.200 So what I would hope would be done now is let Biden go to Congress.

00:08:45.460 Let's ask the House to pass something like this.

00:08:47.760 Let's have hearings.

00:08:49.160 Let's have medical experts.

00:08:50.840 Let's have legislation. 0.89

00:08:52.460 President can then sign the legislation.

00:08:54.600 Then he would have much, much, much clearer authority to do what he's done.

00:08:58.760 It's a good thing to be vaccinated, but not in violation of the Constitution.

00:09:03.680 Yeah, I would.

00:09:04.540 I like vaccines.

00:09:05.600 I'm not against vaccine.

00:09:06.360 I got vaccinated, but I get uncomfortable with Joe Biden telling everyone in America that

00:09:11.600 they have to see it the way he does or be fired.

00:09:14.020 I mean, that's what's crazy is that these people are going to lose their jobs potentially if

00:09:18.400 they don't get the vaccine.

00:09:20.060 I guess the weekly testing, could that save it?

00:09:22.620 Because he says they must be vaccinated.

00:09:25.200 He's basically directing the employers, not the individual, saying the employers have to

00:09:28.900 make sure everyone's vaccinated or offer weekly testing, make sure that they have weekly

00:09:33.240 testing.

00:09:33.980 Could that save it?

00:09:35.820 That could save it on the second issue.

00:09:38.480 And that is, does the federal government have the power to do this?

00:09:40.940 The courts have already said in the Indiana case, as long as there are some exceptions

00:09:45.260 and as long as it's not an absolute categorical mandate, but it's still, the question is still

00:09:51.620 raised whether it's the president.

00:09:53.540 You know, presidents shouldn't be making exceptions and having rubrics in the rules.

00:09:58.760 That's what legislation does.

00:10:00.460 Legislation says you have to have tests or else maybe testing or, you know, 75 days.

00:10:06.300 That's lawmaking.

00:10:07.880 That's not administering the laws. 0.85

00:10:10.000 That's making the laws.

00:10:12.160 And that's a problem.

00:10:13.120 And I suspect here I'm predicting what the courts will do as an expert, not as somebody

00:10:17.700 who has strong personal views in favor of vaccination.

00:10:20.480 I think the courts will be suspicious of presidential actions in the name of an emergency

00:10:24.940 for an enduring problem that has existed since the first day of the Biden presidency and probably

00:10:30.900 will exist in the last day, whether it's a four year or eight year term.

00:10:34.240 So this is not a classic emergency where something has to be done quickly without legislative

00:10:39.560 action.

00:10:40.680 And an emergency during which he already said he's not going to mandate vaccines and that

00:10:45.060 they wouldn't be doing that.

00:10:45.900 So they said that as recently as July.

00:10:48.140 Delta was here, but Delta was here during July.

00:10:50.440 It's not like, oh, well, the next variant, you know, unleashed hell on America and therefore 0.94

00:10:55.840 none of his earlier promises stand.

00:10:57.860 He recognized in the middle of Delta.

00:11:00.080 It wasn't an emergency that would justify a mandatory vaccine.

00:11:04.480 Look, that's a point.

00:11:05.760 But I appreciate the fact that people change their minds with the new science.

00:11:09.660 You're right.

00:11:10.040 There's no real new science on this.

00:11:12.620 But the best science now is that covid will endure for us as an epidemic, not as it not

00:11:18.860 as a pandemic, much like flu.

00:11:22.220 And so the idea of giving the president emergency authority to do something to 100 million Americans,

00:11:28.340 I mean, a very large part of the workforce in America without legislative authority raises

00:11:33.860 questions of democratic accountability.

00:11:36.340 So what would you do, Alan, if you got a call from the governor of Montana and the governor

00:11:41.000 of Montana has a law making it illegal for private employers to require the vaccine as

00:11:48.040 a condition of employment?

00:11:49.440 And so he's already come out and said that the president's order is unlawful in Montana.

00:11:53.900 It goes directly against state law.

00:11:56.300 How does that play out?

00:11:57.280 The supremacy clause, the supremacy clause of the Constitution obviously makes federal

00:12:01.300 law superior to state law when the federal government has the authority to do it.

00:12:06.960 And the question is, not only does the federal government have the right to preempt state

00:12:10.520 law here, which I think it probably does, but does the president, as distinguished from

00:12:15.320 the legislature, have that authority?

00:12:17.400 And that's a much, much more difficult question, particularly for this Supreme Court.

00:12:21.780 Mm hmm.

00:12:22.700 That is much shakier ground for this president to be to be on.

00:12:26.620 So how do you see this getting resolved?

00:12:28.100 People, individual employers, individual citizens will file lawsuits against.

00:12:32.800 Oh, yeah.

00:12:33.280 Oh, yeah.

00:12:33.700 Against the individual citizens will see employers will see states and probably expedited appeal

00:12:40.560 to the United States Supreme Court.

00:12:42.060 I suspect we'll be getting some decisions within the next month.

00:12:47.080 How does this court sitting now like overreaches on executive authority?

00:12:51.560 They don't.

00:12:53.580 And I think that we have a very divided court and we don't know how the chief justice will

00:13:00.980 would rule on a case like this.

00:13:03.140 So it's up in the air.

00:13:04.640 Look, I think what Biden has done, he did this with the housing rental moratorium and he's

00:13:08.940 done it here.

00:13:09.520 What he's saying, and I think he's being advised by some people, look, do it.

00:13:14.020 And if it's unconstitutional, the courts will strike it down.

00:13:17.140 But at least in the meantime, we've gotten the results we wanted.

00:13:20.940 I think that's what he's doing.

00:13:23.600 And the Constitution, the president takes an oath to support it.

00:13:28.000 Legislatures do.

00:13:29.040 Members of the executive do.

00:13:30.680 You can't just willy nilly violate the Constitution and then say, we'll just leave it to the courts.

00:13:36.580 Every single actor in government has to comply with their constitutional obligations.

00:13:42.180 And I'm sure he's gotten good advice from Merrick Garland, from the Justice Department.

00:13:46.740 But I suspect the courts are not going to answer those three questions all yes, yes, yes.

00:13:53.660 I think maybe two will say yes.

00:13:55.800 Maybe the third, it'll be sent back.

00:13:58.040 But it's going to be a picnic for lawyers.

00:14:01.180 I can tell you a lot of lawyers are going to be very busy on this because it raises very

00:14:05.460 considerable constitutional issues.

00:14:07.580 Oliver Wendell Holmes said it a long time ago.

00:14:09.400 Hard cases make bad law.

00:14:10.800 And this is a hard case.

00:14:13.140 And thus far, it's made some bad law.

00:14:15.640 You made a great point about how he has an independent obligation pursuant to his oath

00:14:20.340 to uphold the Constitution.

00:14:21.860 It's not all about, ah, screw the law.

00:14:24.140 You know, the courts will figure this out later.

00:14:25.880 He has an independent obligation as our president, as a man who took that oath on the Bible and

00:14:29.960 so on.

00:14:30.780 And you're right.

00:14:31.860 Twice now, at least, he's flouted it.

00:14:34.400 Alan, great to talk to you.

00:14:35.540 Thank you.

00:14:36.420 Likewise.

00:14:36.840 Thank you.

00:14:37.240 Well, my next guest is my pal from the Califile days.

00:14:40.860 His name is Shannon Coffin, and he served in senior legal positions in the Department

00:14:44.380 of Justice.

00:14:44.960 He was also general counsel to former Vice President Dick Cheney, and he's been a trusted

00:14:49.100 legal advisor on everything complex to me for many, many years.

00:14:52.860 Shannon, thanks for being here and sorry for the technical difficulties.

00:14:55.700 So what do you make of it?

00:14:56.720 Do you think this is lawful?

00:14:59.320 There's a lot to unpack there, as Professor Dershowitz suggested.

00:15:02.300 I think that there are serious questions that are ultimately going to have to be worked out

00:15:08.700 by the Supreme Court and how they come down, you know, is really anyone's guess right now.

00:15:13.760 But you start with a couple of propositions.

00:15:15.780 States could do this, at least under existing law.

00:15:19.240 Since 1905, you know, states and localities have had the power to require vaccination.

00:15:27.260 It came up in the smallpox context 100 years ago.

00:15:30.820 So the question is, can the federal government do it?

00:15:33.400 And that's a much different question because states have a general police power.

00:15:37.660 The federal government does not have a general police power.

00:15:41.340 So it has to be under one of the enumerated powers of the Constitution.

00:15:45.240 Now, wait, wait, let me pause you there and just ask a quick question.

00:15:47.720 If the fact that states can do it, is that why my schools every year have been able to require

00:15:53.480 me to provide proof of the MMR vaccine in my kids?

00:15:57.420 That's absolutely right.

00:15:58.640 That's where that's where that's coming from, that the states have the power to protect

00:16:03.500 the general health.

00:16:04.920 Now, does the federal government have that power?

00:16:07.200 No, it has to have some tie to interstate commerce or some other relationship to federal

00:16:13.180 powers.

00:16:14.100 Does the president alone have that power?

00:16:16.720 Absolutely not.

00:16:17.840 So he can't.

00:16:19.240 He couldn't have.

00:16:20.700 And it would have raised a huge constitutional problem if he just said everyone has to get

00:16:25.060 vaccinated.

00:16:25.520 So he didn't do that.

00:16:26.800 He's saying, I'm going to do this 80 million people at a time.

00:16:29.800 So what he what he's doing is let's go through the workplace.

00:16:32.340 The the occupational safety and health administration is a Department of Labor organization, a Department

00:16:39.680 of Labor agency.

00:16:40.880 And it has power to make workplace safety and health rules.

00:16:45.860 Yeah.

00:16:45.940 They're the ones who come through.

00:16:46.840 So if your machinery is falling apart and might fall on the employees, they cite the

00:16:51.360 business and they pay a fine or they get in trouble.

00:16:53.440 So he's using OSHA somehow to make this happen.

00:16:57.100 How's he doing that?

00:16:58.560 Well, first of all, the biggest point in that this isn't a workplace problem, Megan.

00:17:02.760 I mean, you're not hearing COVID is a significant workplace problem.

00:17:06.660 COVID is a significant societal problem.

00:17:09.040 So the president's trying to solve a general societal problem with a law that deals with

00:17:14.980 the workplace.

00:17:16.120 Now, OSHA has the power to make standards for the workplace to make to make the workplace

00:17:23.500 safer and more healthy.

00:17:25.200 And this is where, Megan, this is where you learn that the federal government has massive

00:17:30.440 powers and and the powers of the of the under the statutory powers of OSHA are just anything

00:17:38.660 it thinks reasonable or appropriate for workplace safety.

00:17:42.980 Well, that could capture this.

00:17:45.160 But good God, this is unlike anything it's ever done before.

00:17:49.840 Now, the other thing they want to do is cram it down immediately.

00:17:53.020 Go forgo any public comment and and just get this effective right away.

00:17:59.080 Well, Congress has said to OSHA, you can only do that when there is a grave danger and a grave

00:18:06.120 danger is really quite a stretch here.

00:18:09.180 What the president is saying is I got to protect unvaccinated people.

00:18:13.660 I got to protect vaccinated people from unvaccinated people.

00:18:16.560 But in the same breath, he said only one in one hundred and sixty thousand vaccinated people

00:18:22.460 have ended up in the hospital.

00:18:24.120 How is that a grave danger, especially in the workplace?

00:18:28.620 So Professor Dershowitz has talked about this in constitutional terms.

00:18:32.420 The first question is, can Congress give this massive power to to OSHA to make to make whatever

00:18:39.420 rules it wants?

00:18:40.320 Right.

00:18:40.620 Without with very little standards.

00:18:42.400 I got to tell you, under existing law, there's there's every suggestion that it can because

00:18:48.740 there's such a wide open deferential standard about what Congress can delegate to a federal

00:18:55.360 agency.

00:18:55.860 But some of the conservatives on the Supreme Court have gotten doubtful about this whole

00:19:01.320 doctrine, which is called the non delegation doctrine and and are starting to raise questions

00:19:07.040 about it.

00:19:07.480 Will they raise questions about OSHA's general power here?

00:19:11.460 Quite possibly.

00:19:12.560 But even if you look at even if you set that aside and look at the statute and what Congress

00:19:17.580 has said the agency can do, is this really reasonably necessary to a safe workplace?

00:19:24.380 Well, this is again, this is a societal problem.

00:19:27.520 We're not having outbreaks in workplaces as far as as far as the evidence shows.

00:19:32.740 Well, can I ask you about that?

00:19:33.840 So I raised this when I was when I was talking at the top of the hour without you guys.

00:19:38.300 What about natural immunity?

00:19:40.460 I all those people who have had covid who have natural immunity and by some studies, the latest

00:19:45.200 one, I think, showed it's greater than in at least one study, a legitimate study.

00:19:50.620 They showed it's greater than you'd get with the vaccine.

00:19:53.100 But the administration continues to ignore that fact.

00:19:56.000 They don't want to talk about it.

00:19:57.080 This CDC doesn't want to talk about it.

00:19:58.520 Can't those people file a lawsuit, as we saw one college professor just do against his

00:20:03.880 university is trying to make him get a vaccine, even though he's had covid and say, you can't.

00:20:09.160 There is no emergency when it comes to me.

00:20:12.080 I, I, I don't need the vaccine.

00:20:15.120 You can't make me get a medication I don't need.

00:20:18.220 Megan, you never left Jones Day.

00:20:19.680 That's I mean, that's that's exactly what this lawsuit would look like.

00:20:24.400 The the individual who has natural immunity would say, you know, there's no emergency as

00:20:31.240 to me and you shouldn't have crammed this down.

00:20:33.740 This is the very sort of factor you should have considered in public notice and public

00:20:39.100 comment.

00:20:39.820 You should give the public an opportunity to vet these issues and respond to them.

00:20:44.240 But you're just cramming this down under an emergency rule when there is no grave danger.

00:20:49.060 I think that's where the real the real vulnerability of this whole thing is, is this emergency crammed

00:20:59.120 down nature.

00:20:59.980 OK, and so just to round up and make it clear.

00:21:02.760 So when you're dealing with an administrative agency like OSHA, we saw this even with the

00:21:08.360 Department of Education when they tried to change the rules for trying sexual harassment

00:21:12.220 cases and assault cases.

00:21:13.380 When you're dealing with an administrative agency, you need to allow public comment on

00:21:18.460 rule changes.

00:21:19.120 The public gets to weigh in and potentially stop it.

00:21:22.380 And they didn't do that.

00:21:23.860 Only in sweeping emergency cases can the chief executive, the president say, no, no, no, we're

00:21:29.260 not doing any of that.

00:21:30.500 I've got these superpowers when it comes to national emergencies, you know, massive dangers

00:21:34.920 that I can skip that.

00:21:36.240 You're saying it doesn't look like he does in this circumstance and it and they may get

00:21:42.200 challenged on on skipping the rule and the comment and all that stuff, too.

00:21:45.820 That's right.

00:21:46.620 But skipping the rule and the comment is a way to shut down the whole thing because a court

00:21:51.560 would come in and say, you didn't do it right.

00:21:54.220 You don't have the power to do this in an emergency rule.

00:21:57.020 Start over.

00:21:57.700 And so so the rule could be enjoined.

00:22:01.640 The 80 million person workplace rule could be enjoined on that basis alone.

00:22:07.940 Well, that may very well happen because, you know, Alan's right about one thing.

00:22:10.700 The lawyers are sharpening their pencils right now.

00:22:13.820 Our pal Jeremy Boring, who runs The Daily Wire with Ben Shapiro, already tweeted out, we

00:22:18.300 have well over 100 employees and there's no way we're complying with this unconstitutional

00:22:21.440 order.

00:22:22.420 And so one by one, the lawsuits will pop up.

00:22:24.240 The lower courts will rule.

00:22:25.480 And I think it's it's.

00:22:27.700 It's guaranteed that the Supreme Court is going to get asked to decide this and soon because

00:22:31.740 you're talking about jabs in people's arms and medication and public health.

00:22:35.200 Shannon, such a pleasure.

00:22:36.080 Thank you, sir.

00:22:37.480 See you, Megan.

00:22:39.780 So up next, we're going to talk about 9-11, the 20 year anniversary tomorrow.

00:22:44.980 And some teachers are being told not to teach students about American exceptionalism as we

00:22:51.820 approach the 9-11 moment, the 20 year moment.

00:22:55.140 Do not call the hijackers terrorists, they've told these teachers.

00:22:59.780 Don't even have students condemn the attacks.

00:23:03.200 Deborah Burlingame.

00:23:04.320 I respect her so much.

00:23:06.520 She lost her brother when his plane, he was the captain, hit the Pentagon.

00:23:10.620 She's here to respond.

00:23:11.920 And later, I want to hear from you on Biden's decision.

00:23:14.700 Are you a private business owner or a worker affected by this decision?

00:23:18.520 What do you plan to do about it?

00:23:19.840 What do you think of it?

00:23:21.300 Call me at 833-44-MEGYN.

00:23:24.220 M-E-G-Y-N. 1.00

00:23:25.360 That's 833-446-3496.

00:23:29.180 We're going to be taking calls in about an hour.

00:23:31.080 Just want to let you know that's when we're going to be taking them.

00:23:32.680 But we'd love for you to line up and call us and we'll chat next time.

00:23:36.380 Did you know that everyday activities like ASMR can actually be healthy for you?

00:23:41.560 Right now, you're improving your heart health, boosting your brain activity, and lowering your stress.

00:23:54.420 Manulife wants you to see healthy living differently so you can live a longer, healthier life.

00:24:00.520 Visit manulife.ca slash health to learn more ways Manulife can help.

00:24:05.220 Welcome back, everyone, to The Megyn Kelly Show.

00:24:12.980 Joining me now is Deborah Burlingame, one of the activists who's dedicated the last 20 years to keeping the memories of those lost on 9-11 alive.

00:24:21.720 Her brother, Captain Charles Burlingame, Chick as he was known, was pilot of Flight 77, which crashed into the Pentagon building.

00:24:30.000 As we approach the 20th anniversary of the deadly attacks tomorrow, we are faced with new dangers now.

00:24:35.220 From Afghanistan after the country fell to the Taliban and we walked away. 0.94

00:24:41.180 This is the Department of Homeland Security has issued a nationwide heightened threat environment for the coming days.

00:24:47.800 Deborah has a lot to say about the recent events unfolding in the Middle East and what could potentially, what it all could mean for our country.

00:24:54.120 And she joins me now.

00:24:55.280 Deb, thank you so much for being with us on this of all days.

00:24:58.480 I've been thinking about you nonstop in the past few weeks.

00:25:02.240 I've been thinking about our men and women in uniform, and I've been thinking about you, people who lost folks on 9-11 for whom the events in Afghanistan had to be particularly painful.

00:25:13.660 How are you feeling today, one day before the actual 20-year mark?

00:25:17.100 You know, I've been very busy since the Afghanistan blew up. 1.00

00:25:22.200 And I haven't had time to really think about tomorrow.

00:25:26.780 I usually do that in the drive down.

00:25:28.560 Bob and I take the five hours to drive down from New York.

00:25:32.200 But I have to tell you, I'm dreading it.

00:25:33.900 I'm absolutely dreading it.

00:25:35.140 Because, first of all, the DOD has closed that observance to only family members.

00:25:42.840 They have cut out all of the members of the military that usually go.

00:25:48.600 And I contested that.

00:25:51.680 I sent letters to, you know, explain why that is a bad idea.

00:25:55.340 And it didn't win that one.

00:25:58.300 So I usually like to stand with those guys.

00:26:01.780 I usually don't stand up front where all the families are.

00:26:03.980 I like to stand with all the guys and gals in uniform with their combat patches.

00:26:08.260 And they won't be there.

00:26:09.760 So it kind of amplifies the anguish I felt over what's going on in Afghanistan.

00:26:15.740 It's like a way of making you feel even more alone on one of the most painful days of your life.

00:26:21.640 Yeah.

00:26:22.020 And they used COVID as an excuse.

00:26:24.540 I'm not even buying that at all.

00:26:29.100 But it is what it is.

00:26:31.600 So we'll be there.

00:26:32.420 And I understand that President Biden is going to be making an appearance at all three sites in Shanksville, Pentagon and New York.

00:26:42.280 I'm not sure if he's going to speak.

00:26:45.040 I have a feeling he won't because that he might get heckled.

00:26:50.620 And I think that would be, you know, I'm not a fan of President Biden.

00:26:55.600 I think he's been derelict of duty.

00:26:58.680 I really think it's shameful what he's done.

00:27:00.660 But he's still the president.

00:27:01.740 And I wouldn't want to see him heckled in front of all the world by these five families.

00:27:08.760 I'm not saying he doesn't deserve it, but it's not a good look for our country.

00:27:12.260 So I'm not sure what's going to happen tomorrow.

00:27:18.020 There's a whisper that President Obama might come to New York.

00:27:22.360 Do you think, Deb, that there would have been any risk of heckling and so on prior to Afghanistan?

00:27:26.800 Or is this just about the intense anger the families are feeling about how that was handled?

00:27:31.280 Oh, definitely the intense anger about how that was handled.

00:27:34.240 9-11 families, very early on, there was a bond that happened very quickly with the U.S. military.

00:27:44.540 I mean, I actually began a letter-writing campaign, just me.

00:27:52.520 Whenever there was a casualty, I would look that person up.

00:27:56.000 I would find out about their life and I would write to their family a personal letter.

00:28:00.140 And the ones that really got to me were the ones who enlisted because of 9-11.

00:28:05.740 I can think of, too, a young man named Diego Rancón.

00:28:10.460 He was only 14 on 9-11.

00:28:12.740 His brother came home and found him in front of the TV.

00:28:15.920 His fists balled up and said he wanted to serve his country.

00:28:19.000 And when he turned 18, he did, and he died in Iraq.

00:28:21.760 Another one was Colin Wolfe.

00:28:23.260 I discovered him on the fifth anniversary.

00:28:27.980 There was a grave in Arlington.

00:28:29.360 We always go over to Section 60 in Arlington to pay respects to the war on terror.

00:28:33.200 That's who died there.

00:28:34.200 That's where they're buried.

00:28:35.480 There was a fresh grave there.

00:28:36.560 And I thought, I've never seen a funeral happen.

00:28:40.420 All the flowers, fresh flowers were still piled on the grave.

00:28:42.940 They'd just buried him on 9-11.

00:28:44.860 So I looked him up and I couldn't find out anything about him because he had only been killed two weeks earlier.

00:28:50.560 On the way home, the next day, there was a whole page about him.

00:28:54.840 He was 14 on 9-11.

00:28:57.260 He said, I'm going to be a Marine.

00:29:00.380 He did.

00:29:01.540 He died two weeks on his first deployment, hit by an IED.

00:29:06.980 I mean, these brave hearts, these are the people I think about.

00:29:11.500 And, of course, I've met a lot of the wounded warriors and done events with them.

00:29:16.040 And, you know, they've really struggled.

00:29:18.060 They've really, really had a rough time.

00:29:19.940 Not only losing parts of their bodies and traumatic brain injury, but the PTSD.

00:29:27.160 Those are the ones I immediately thought of when I saw these people clinging to the airplanes and the people left behind.

00:29:34.440 Because I knew that the suicide lines were going to be hotlines were going to be rigging off the hook.

00:29:39.480 And I'm sure that this is harder on them than anybody, these vets, these combat vets.

00:29:44.500 You've been such an outspoken advocate in the war on terror for measures to keep us safe, for people to be honest about who attacked us and why and not try to sugarcoat anything, not try to demonize whole swaths of people, but to be honest about what we were up against that day and thereafter.

00:30:03.020 And I wonder if you think now, in the wake of what happened in Afghanistan, we're less safe. 0.75

00:30:11.360 I mean, how safe are we today on this 20-year mark versus on September 10th, 2001?

00:30:18.280 We're in much, we're in much graver danger, Megan.

00:30:21.860 Much more, much more danger now because we now have the Taliban. 1.00

00:30:28.300 Remember, the Taliban is a terrorist organization.

00:30:31.620 The Taliban sheltered al-Qaeda.

00:30:34.600 They protected Osama bin Laden. 0.65

00:30:38.500 They provided a training camp for all of the 19 hijackers who attacked the cockpits that day. 0.79

00:30:49.140 They were all trained in Al-Faruq. 0.64

00:30:51.220 That was in Afghanistan.

00:30:52.100 They were taught to kill the pilots, but they used short knives and they practiced on sheep and camel.

00:31:00.900 And that was all provided to them and made safe for them by the Taliban. 0.96

00:31:04.320 I actually, you know, when the whole issue of this war paradigm versus legal paradigm was being argued,

00:31:12.600 and I was arguing for the war paradigm for prosecuting these people in war crimes, not in federal courts like bank robbers.

00:31:20.540 I wanted to know who these people are because are the, what I call the, what they call themselves the Gitmo Bar,

00:31:28.180 the pro bono lawyers from some of the biggest white shoe firms in all of America.

00:31:31.800 We're defending them and saying, well, these are just goat herders and, you know, innocent people who got caught up in, you know, in the fog of war. 0.99

00:31:39.220 No, I read their combat status reviews.

00:31:41.900 I read a lot of them.

00:31:43.560 These are committed jihadists.

00:31:45.420 They came from all over the Arab world, all over the Muslim world, because to die in defense of the fifth pillar of Islam, which is the defense of religion, you know, spreading the ummah, 0.95

00:31:56.840 is to die as a shaheed, a holy warrior, is, it is the highest thing you can happen to you, you can do in life.

00:32:05.040 And so, yes, some of them came from Kuwait, from Saudi Arabia, from little countries I'd never heard of, and some of them were educated.

00:32:17.820 But they were in Kosovo.

00:32:21.100 Some of them were veterans of Kosovo.

00:32:22.780 And so, this isn't like they have a grievance and they're there to, you know, settle this grievance and then go home.

00:32:30.800 This is endless.

00:32:32.060 This is endless war for them.

00:32:34.440 And so, you know, in 2012, Obama stood in front of us at the Pentagon on the anniversary.

00:32:40.420 And he did a brag that Osama bin Laden will never hurt us again, because a lot about it had happened the year before. 0.74

00:32:49.680 And then he said, and he said, the Al-Qaeda is on the run.

00:32:53.260 And then he said, and this is very important to hear today, this is 2012.

00:32:57.640 In 2014, the war will be over.

00:33:00.740 Well, the enemy gets a say in that.

00:33:03.120 And wars aren't over when they're declared over.

00:33:06.340 There's either a defeat, an uncontroversial, a deniable defeat, or there's a surrender.

00:33:16.180 That's it.

00:33:17.040 And we weren't going to have that.

00:33:19.380 So, and it's important to note that five hours or five and a half hours after he said those words at the Pentagon, our embassy in Cairo was attacked.

00:33:28.740 The American flag was taken down from this giant embassy.

00:33:32.160 The black flag of ISIS was hoisted up.

00:33:35.120 It stayed there for three days because Morsi, the president of Egypt, had been installed in the Arab Spring, a Muslim Brotherhood figure, a member.

00:33:43.760 And that night, Benghazi.

00:33:46.680 We lost Chris, the ambassador.

00:33:50.560 Chris Stevens.

00:33:51.840 Yes.

00:33:52.700 And three Americans.

00:33:53.940 That's their answer to these declarations by American presidents who don't know who these people really are.

00:34:03.240 They think it's not just a fight over territory.

00:34:05.500 It's a fight over for them, for their divinely inspired mission.

00:34:09.900 Well, that's, I mean, to me, it's crazy when you listen to the chairman of the Joint Chiefs say, yeah, we're likely to see attacks on America between 12 and 13 months from now launched from Al Qaeda in Afghanistan.

00:34:23.880 OK, we fought a whole war to try to stop that from happening again.

00:34:30.840 Our secretary of defense saying the same thing and saying, oh, don't don't worry, because we're going to keep eyes on them from other countries in the region.

00:34:38.360 You know, we're going to be able to sort of keep eyes on them.

00:34:40.900 Really?

00:34:42.140 How is that going to be?

00:34:44.500 Megan, I'd like to enumerate which other countries in the region he's talking about, because Pakistan has always been a double dealer. 1.00

00:34:54.860 That's where bin Laden was all those years. 0.93

00:34:58.320 And they were protecting him.

00:34:59.980 They're a nuclear power.

00:35:01.320 OK, and I don't think we're going to have a base set up side by side with our Taliban neighbors. 1.00

00:35:08.040 That's where the leader of the Taliban was all these years, a newly installed leader when he was brought back, you know, with celebration. 0.92

00:35:19.020 So where else where else are we going to go there?

00:35:21.580 They already have outreached the Taliban to China and Russia, you know, opening the bidding for resources in Afghanistan.

00:35:29.920 They're going to get a lot of money.

00:35:31.400 And you have this administration now talking, already talking.

00:35:35.140 I'm telling you, it's really hard to take it all in.

00:35:39.860 They're talking about all the humanitarian aid they plan to give the new emirate of Afghanistan, Islamic emirate of Afghanistan, to help the poor people who are being brutalized and starved by this new government.

00:35:56.200 That we helped install our former enemies, I say our current enemies.

00:36:01.840 We're now going to go and mitigate the crap they do to these poor Afghan people by sending them aid, which will never, of course, get to them. 1.00

00:36:11.260 And it will be millions, if not billions of dollars.

00:36:13.960 I just think this is crazy town.

00:36:16.300 And yes, we're more in danger because we don't have the territory.

00:36:19.860 We don't have the eyes from the sky because, you know, they say over the horizon.

00:36:23.580 And well, as somebody, one of these security experts who does the geospatial stuff said, no, it's really more over the horizon, over the horizon.

00:36:33.640 Yeah.

00:36:34.800 To pretend that it's anywhere near as good as us having boots on the ground there and actual intel on the ground is, of course, a fallacy.

00:36:42.720 The other thing I wanted to ask you about is this, you know, I see it all the time.

00:36:48.600 I'm sure you see it more than I do, that people are losing sight of what happened to us that day, how severe it was and who did it.

00:36:57.720 And as I saw that story I mentioned in the intro about the Virginia Department of Education releasing some two hour video telling students we will not be getting into American exceptionalism as we approach this 9-11 moment, as we I don't want to call it an anniversary.

00:37:13.600 You know, it seems like celebratory in some weird way.

00:37:15.920 But as we approach the 20 year mark, there will not be discussion here of American exceptionalism, that our teachers need to be culturally responsive and inclusive in discussing 9-11, teach students about it in a way that does not cause harm.

00:37:29.920 And they mean toward anybody of the Muslim faith and that that basically it would be highly inappropriate to talk about extremists being behind the 9-11 attack, that you should not have to identify them as Muslim extremists or call them out as terrorists at all.

00:37:45.880 So this video, they put it out. It's now been taken down.

00:37:49.760 But the woman behind it, Amara DeCure, is one of the featured speakers and stands by this position that that we shouldn't be talking about Muslim extremism on 9-11 and certainly not American exceptionalism.

00:38:02.300 Well, I my response to that is a simple one.

00:38:07.660 You must not really care too much about Muslims themselves because they are the number one target of this.

00:38:15.960 I wouldn't call it Muslim extremism.

00:38:18.860 I would call it Islamic extremism. 1.00

00:38:22.420 You know, they are they are they are beaten, killed, raped, kidnapped, beheaded.

00:38:30.100 This is all done in the name of their harsh form of Islam. 1.00

00:38:33.900 And they come to this country to escape that.

00:38:39.020 Imagine imagine imagine being a Muslim mother who has left an area of the world where this takes place is kind of extremely brutal Sharia. 1.00

00:38:49.020 And you you think you've made it to, you know, the promised land of America and freedom.

00:38:53.940 And now you've got a teacher preaching this kind of thing in the classroom.

00:38:57.580 Imagine what a how that would mess with your child's head. 0.90

00:39:02.060 I mean, I think these people really don't care about Muslims at all.

00:39:06.000 They are what they are talking about as a political cause and some kind of hatred of America or American.

00:39:14.460 I don't I don't know.

00:39:15.400 There's they they all have their different reasons.

00:39:17.100 But I think it's cruel to Muslims. 1.00

00:39:19.920 And I think this form of Sharia is is just it crushes the human spirit. 1.00

00:39:24.740 And I don't think a way of talking about who attacked us on 9-11 without condemning condemning all Muslims. 1.00

00:39:31.980 Right. Islamic extremists. 0.90

00:39:33.160 Absolutely.

00:39:34.160 Because I recognize that the vast majority of Muslims do not identify with the people who took you do these attacks, much less 9-11. 0.52

00:39:46.460 And I can't tell you how many Muslims I've talked to who engage me.

00:39:52.980 I'll be in the back of the cab talking in my cell phone and the cab driver turn around and said, you know, I'm from Egypt.

00:39:59.480 I've been here 25 years.

00:40:01.220 I agree with everything you're saying.

00:40:03.020 There's you know, all the mosques in Queens have these radicals in there.

00:40:07.700 I tell my kids to go in, pray and get out.

00:40:10.000 But I don't think they know their audience, quite frankly, and I don't think they're speaking to Muslims like this. 1.00

00:40:17.280 Let me ask you this.

00:40:18.300 We've got just a short time.

00:40:20.620 And I just I've been dying to ask you about your your piece in The Wall Street Journal on people who keep comparing 9-11 to January 6th, who actually say January 6th was worse than 9-11.

00:40:34.720 And we've played the soundbite before they I mean, Matthew Dowd, George Will, I could go on on those who have made this, I think, disgusting comparison.

00:40:45.200 Your response to them, Deb?

00:40:47.340 It's almost hard to it's flabbergasting to me.

00:40:51.040 They I think they're there, but they hang it on their hook is that January 6th was it was a threat to democracy.

00:40:59.100 Well, that's, I think, intellectually kind of shifty and thin, because you could I think you could argue that virtually everything Congress is doing right now is a threat to democracy when they're trying to, you know, basically create one party rule in perpetuity.

00:41:18.000 But that doesn't bother them.

00:41:19.620 But let's be fair here.

00:41:22.760 Even Christopher Wray, the director of the FBI, testified before for an oversight committee, Judiciary Committee on March 2nd.

00:41:31.360 He knew that early that none of the people who were inside the building were armed.

00:41:36.940 None.

00:41:37.520 Not one of them.

00:41:38.380 Most of the charges I've looked at them, I've read some of the charge sheets, they're for very low level felonies.

00:41:47.100 And what they're trying to do is leverage these people to plead out because honest to God, Megan, if they had lawyers and they took these to court and it would be a big burden on the courts because there's, I think, 50 people or more who've been charged.

00:42:02.960 Like, I think they'd all get acquitted because there's no intent in any of these things.

00:42:09.580 I mean, there's no intent.

00:42:11.480 You have to, it's a, you know, it's part of almost every felony.

00:42:16.760 You have to be, you have to intend to do it.

00:42:19.260 And in too many of these cases, they were invited in and there's video of them standing there with security guards telling their people, okay, no, don't touch anything.

00:42:30.840 Don't hurt any of these guys.

00:42:32.740 I'm talking some of the defendants, okay?

00:42:36.620 And so I think, I think Christopher Ray, they got this, they created this thing, shock and awe, where they went out and arrested people in mass in real scary ways.

00:42:45.780 I mean, I saw one arrest.

00:42:47.440 Well, no, he clearly, they clearly, you know, swept up as many people as possible.

00:42:51.840 But I literally only have 30 seconds.

00:42:53.640 I just wanted to give you the chance to, like, your message for those who continue to try to bring up 9-11 as comparable to anything.

00:43:00.200 You're making a fool of yourself.

00:43:03.960 The place has been capital bombed, people shot inside the building.

00:43:08.160 There's a whole history of many, many worse actual attacks that weren't a threat to democracy.

00:43:12.860 They were crimes.

00:43:13.860 These people did low-level crimes.

00:43:15.300 And it's really an insult to the whole country of what we went through on 9-11 to make that kind of comparison.

00:43:22.280 It's an insult to our people who went to war because of that day.

00:43:25.160 We'll be saying a prayer for you and for your brother and your whole family tomorrow.

00:43:30.260 Thank you so much, Deb.

00:43:31.100 Thank you, Deb.

00:43:31.800 Thank you.

00:43:32.260 Coming up, the CEO of the incredible Tunnel to Towers Foundation, Frank Siller, and a story of what his brother did on 9-11 that will touch your heart.

00:43:40.680 Don't go away.

00:43:41.240 Welcome back to The Megyn Kelly Show, everyone.

00:43:46.880 We are sharing some stories of 9-11 today with the 20th year mark tomorrow.

00:43:53.020 And we want to hear from you, too.

00:43:54.020 What do you remember about that day?

00:43:55.360 What do you think we've learned as a country since that day?

00:43:58.760 Let me know.

00:43:59.360 Call it 833-44-MEGYN.

00:44:02.560 That's 833-446-3496.

00:44:06.600 I want to bring in, as we wait to talk to you guys, the story.

00:44:11.100 I want to bring in Frank Siller and the story of his brother.

00:44:15.120 Frank and I have known each other for a long time now.

00:44:17.080 He runs an amazing, amazing organization called Tunnel to Towers.

00:44:21.660 And there's a very good reason that they called it that in honor of his brother, firefighter Stephen Siller.

00:44:28.020 For those of you who are too young, because there really are people like that, you know, it's hard to believe to remember this fateful day.

00:44:34.240 You know that it remains the deadliest terrorist act in world history.

00:44:40.040 The attack on our country on 9-11.

00:44:41.400 19 militants associated with the Islamic extremist group Al-Qaeda hijacked four airplanes.

00:44:47.040 Two of them were flown into the Twin Towers.

00:44:49.180 The third plane hit the Pentagon.

00:44:50.520 That's the one that Deb Burlingame's brother was flying, where he was killed and the terrorists took over.

00:44:56.180 The fourth plane crashed into a field in Shanksville, Pennsylvania, after it had been taken over by the passengers who refused to let the terrorists crash it, as we believe, into the U.S. Capitol.

00:45:06.900 We believe that they saved countless lives for doing that.

00:45:10.160 2,977 people were killed.

00:45:12.880 2,977.

00:45:14.380 More than 6,000 were injured.

00:45:15.900 New York City lost 441 first responders.

00:45:20.160 An estimated 200 people jumped or fell off of the Twin Towers as they faced the horrific choice of either being burned alive or jumping to their death.

00:45:31.520 In the weeks after, Ground Zero was a disaster area, and firefighters and other first responders continued to dig through the remains, trying to find any survivors initially, and then just the remains of loved ones for those waiting for some sort of a word and some sort of a piece of their loved ones.

00:45:48.640 More than 2,700 people have died from cancer after having sifted through that rubble.

00:45:53.260 Many other illnesses caused as well by the exposure to what remained of the Twin Towers there.

00:45:59.480 Cancers have been reported nearly 13,000 of those who helped.

00:46:04.420 Nearly 80,000 responders have enrolled in the health program that came out of that effort.

00:46:11.400 Think of that, just the massive amount of damage done.

00:46:13.640 We're not even talking about the loss of life in Afghanistan and then Iraq and so on.

00:46:19.420 It just unleashed such hell on our nation, and it should never be compared to anything because it's singular in its horror.

00:46:28.980 The people who make us think about 9-11 and feel something other than horror, make us feel proud, make us feel grateful to be Americans, are people like Stephen Siller.

00:46:38.760 His brother Frank's with me now.

00:46:39.860 Frank, thank you so much for being here.

00:46:41.340 We've talked a lot of times as we approach 9-11 or on the actual day.

00:46:47.000 Can we just start with, can you tell us a little bit about Stephen?

00:46:49.400 And by the way, we'll get to why you're in your car because it's actually a great story, but just tell us a little bit about Stephen.

00:46:55.020 Well, first of all, thank you, Megan, and thank you for all the years that you've allowed me to tell my brother's story.

00:47:01.800 It has meant the world to me.

00:47:03.760 My brother was a New York City firefighter who on September 11, 2001, he just finished his night tour in Squad 1 in Brooklyn.

00:47:11.800 As a matter of fact, I was just there a few, less than an hour ago, and he was on his way home to play golf with myself, my brother George, my brother Russ, and he heard on his radio scanner that the towers were hit.

00:47:25.740 So he turned his truck around, called his wife up, Sally, and said, hey, tell my brothers I'll try to catch up with them later.

00:47:32.360 Went to his firehouse, got his gear, and drove to the mouth of the Brooklyn Battery Tunnel.

00:47:36.500 Now, for those who might not know, that tunnel connects Brooklyn with downtown Manhattan.

00:47:40.840 It's nearly two miles long.

00:47:43.160 It was closed for security reasons because cars were abandoned, and they didn't want anyone coming into New York other than first responders, but they couldn't get the fire trucks through anymore because everything was abandoned.

00:47:54.820 So he strapped 60 pounds of gear on his back and ran through that tunnel, came out the other side.

00:48:00.360 And, you know, I was just listening to your previous segment and your introduction here when you were saying that people were faced with a horrific decision.

00:48:13.040 So my brother came out of that tunnel, and he saw two buildings, the Twin Towers, inflamed, and people that were faced with a decision to jump or burn, people above the fire line.

00:48:24.720 And that's what has to be told, that story.

00:48:27.360 But my brother ran into what we believe is the South Tower.

00:48:31.120 He was never recovered, but his other Squad 1 buddies all died in the South Tower, so that's where we believe he was.

00:48:38.380 You would want to fight this fire with the people you train with every single day.

00:48:43.360 And he gave up his life, and he so inspired his older siblings, and Stephen was the youngest of seven, that we started a foundation called the Tunnel to Towers Foundation.

00:48:53.960 In his honor and the honor of all those who perished that day, but most certainly our first responders.

00:48:59.800 It's so moving to think about this 34-year-old guy, father of five kids.

00:49:07.660 How many kids did he have, Frank?

00:49:09.600 Five kids.

00:49:10.400 Five kids could try to get back to the site of danger.

00:49:14.720 His shift was over.

00:49:15.580 I mean, honestly, there are some people in the world who would have said, my shift is over.

00:49:20.020 And when faced with not being able to get through the tunnel, strapping the 60 pounds of gear on his back and running for it, running for it, saying, no, no, I will be the one who gets there.

00:49:31.000 I will be the one who runs into the burning building.

00:49:33.280 And the stories are that the firefighters, the first responders, a lot of them hugged one another before they went into those buildings, and they knew very well that they could be climbing those stairs to their death.

00:49:44.000 But they did it by the hundreds, Frank, by the hundreds, to try to save others.

00:49:47.900 Well, it's very emotional even just hearing you say that because we filmed about 75 different stories this year, Megan, of the stories of the 9-11.

00:50:00.560 And to almost every one of them, these firefighters did hug each other and said, hey, bro, I don't know if I'm going to see you after today.

00:50:08.800 So they knew the possibility that they weren't coming out was very high, and yet they still went in there.

00:50:15.360 I mean, if that's not a hero, we don't have any in this world.

00:50:19.500 And thank God we do have them here in America, and we better always take care of these heroes when they do things like this.

00:50:26.040 So my brother Stephen, I couldn't be more proud of him and what he did.

00:50:30.360 And that's why our foundation, it's a very simple mission.

00:50:35.040 We want to first make sure we never forget, and we want to honor the sacrifice, and then we honor the sacrifice by doing good.

00:50:42.400 And Megan, we're doing good for these great American families that pay the ultimate sacrifice for our freedom, whether they serve for our country or for our community, and they leave young families behind.

00:50:51.920 And you've been a part of it for a long time.

00:50:54.680 I'm very proud to be a part of it and associated with you guys.

00:50:58.660 It must be said, police, too, on that day ran into the buildings.

00:51:02.860 And, you know, that's one of the hard things about seeing them demonized as a group.

00:51:06.660 It's like the cops I remember are the ones who ran into those burning buildings alongside Stephen.

00:51:12.140 You know, they're not all good, but they're not all bad either.

00:51:15.120 It's one of the terrible things that's happened in our current society is there's these swaths of people demonized.

00:51:20.920 It's awful when it's not true.

00:51:23.360 But can you tell me, because if you do the Tunnel to Towers run, because they do it every year, Frank's organization, you can go and you can actually do the run that Stephen Siller did.

00:51:31.840 But you see Iraq and Afghanistan vets, guys who have no legs doing this run. 1.00

00:51:39.800 And I'm telling you, you want to feel something about your country.

00:51:42.760 Some you want to feel proud of your country.

00:51:44.480 And then you go there and you see these guys.

00:51:46.500 They it takes everything they've got inside of them.

00:51:49.200 They're sweating.

00:51:50.180 They're gritting it out.

00:51:52.000 They don't complain.

00:51:53.520 Everyone stands.

00:51:54.460 When those guys cross the finish line, the cheers are deafening.

00:51:59.760 Everyone is just roaring for them.

00:52:03.000 It I don't know.

00:52:04.860 It's like it makes you feel something.

00:52:06.640 It makes you remember why you love this country, why you love our military.

00:52:10.540 It's yet another reason to do it.

00:52:12.180 But what we're really there for is to support severely injured veterans and other people in law enforcement who have lost their primary wage and are in the line of service and so on.

00:52:23.880 Right, Frank?

00:52:24.260 I mean, it's we're there to try to help guys get home so they can live something close to a normal life.

00:52:30.080 Correct.

00:52:30.340 And, you know, you've done the run.

00:52:32.660 You've seen it.

00:52:33.500 These great heroes that gave their bodies for our country.

00:52:38.160 Megan, we have hundreds and hundreds of gold star families that come out and run the race in honor of their loved one that gave gave their life.

00:52:47.640 We have we have a you know, we lost 13 service members recently in Iraq, 13 that we shouldn't have.

00:52:58.160 We shouldn't have lost by any means.

00:53:01.160 It's it's I talked to those after that.

00:53:03.940 And no, they're distraught.

00:53:05.500 They're distraught.

00:53:06.040 But here's the one thing.

00:53:07.380 The Tunnel to Towers Foundation.

00:53:08.520 We know that the widow of United States Marine Corps, Lance Corporal Riley McCollum, his wife, Jenna, is going to be giving birth in a couple of days.

00:53:19.460 And you know what?

00:53:20.720 I'm going to talk to her tomorrow on 9-11 and I'm going to tell her and she knows already, but I'm going to speak to her that we're going to deliver her a mortgage free home.

00:53:29.580 And I don't know if she has a home yet.

00:53:30.920 If she doesn't, we're going to build a one.

00:53:32.480 She's only 20 years old.

00:53:34.240 So I doubt she has a home.

00:53:35.620 So we're going to build her a mortgage free home. 1.00

00:53:38.160 And that's what the Tunnel to Towers Foundation does.

00:53:40.500 We want to be there for these great families that die.

00:53:42.720 If you and I, and you talk about police officers, let me tell you something.

00:53:47.580 I've been around police officers all my life, but most certainly the last 20 years.

00:53:53.080 Yeah, there are very few, very few ones that are not good.

00:53:57.880 But 99.9% are beautiful and they're willing to die for us every single day.

00:54:03.160 And many times they do.

00:54:04.220 And you know why?

00:54:04.720 Instead of spitting on the ground, some Americans do when they see them, they should kiss the ground to go on because without them, we have no society.

00:54:12.740 And so we take care of those.

00:54:14.740 The families are left behind the first responders also that die for us and pay off their mortgages as well.

00:54:21.080 So we're very proud of the work we're doing.

00:54:23.660 Whenever I see a firefighter or a cop or a man or woman in uniform, I say the same thing.

00:54:29.160 Thank you for your service.

00:54:30.380 Thank you for your service.

00:54:31.180 It's very dangerous what these guys do.

00:54:33.340 And, you know, obviously we saw it on 9-11 and in some of the incidents I mentioned thereafter, you know, those guys who work tirelessly at Ground Zero.

00:54:40.300 My close friend Janice Dean, her husband was one of them.

00:54:43.100 He's, thank God, okay right now.

00:54:44.440 But they have to live with the fear that, you know, anytime he gets a cough, it's related to what happened at Ground Zero.

00:54:51.160 And families like yours are still dealing with the fallout from the loss.

00:54:55.100 Frank, I saw a story this week about the New York City Medical Examiner's Office still, after all this time, sifting through the remains to try to find any way to ID some of those remains to the names,

00:55:10.880 some 1,100 names that have still not, there's been no actual proof of death.

00:55:15.640 I mean, we know they died in 9-11, but, and they found, they find tiny bone fragments and they are able to test them against DNA provided by the families.

00:55:24.380 And they are still maybe one a year now able to say, okay, we found the remains of your loved one.

00:55:30.980 I wanted to ask you about it.

00:55:32.760 Forgive me.

00:55:33.160 I know it's a sensitive subject, but having not found any remains of Stephen, is that something you would want?

00:55:41.060 Would that just open old wounds?

00:55:43.940 No, I don't, it wouldn't.

00:55:45.320 If I found it, it'd be great.

00:55:47.080 I mean, don't get me wrong, but I don't need that to move on and be happy in life.

00:55:52.500 Be quite frank with you, his burial ground is at Ground Zero.

00:55:55.920 That's where it would have been for me, no matter what, that's where Stephen's soul is, and his spirit is with many people, certainly with his family, but that's where Stephen's burial ground is.

00:56:08.220 So I don't need that.

00:56:09.480 If other families do, I don't, you know, I understand.

00:56:13.180 I don't ever speak for anybody else, but I certainly don't need, I don't need that.

00:56:17.660 But look, we're blessed as a family that we took on, right after Stephen died, we made a conscious decision that all we wanted to do was take that evil and to make some good out of it.

00:56:30.840 And that's what we do at the Tunnel to Towers Foundation.

00:56:33.440 And I've been on a journey this last six weeks, to be quite frank with you.

00:56:40.580 I started walking on August 1st from the Pentagon.

00:56:44.420 I've walked to Shanksville, Pennsylvania, and tomorrow morning I'll be walking, retracing my brother's final heroic footsteps when he ran through that tunnel.

00:56:53.940 I'll be doing it when the sun is coming up tomorrow morning.

00:56:57.880 And I couldn't be more proud of what my brother did 20 years ago, and I just wanted to do something to honor him.

00:57:03.740 And it'll be, it's 537 miles.

00:57:06.300 That's why I'm sitting in my car right now, because I was walking just before this interview.

00:57:11.820 I was just at Squad 1.

00:57:14.120 I have this shirt on.

00:57:15.360 I just had a late brunch with them, with some guys that work with my brother, other new guys that, you know, they're in the firehouse, because he was pretty close to the Brooklyn Battery Tunnel.

00:57:26.560 And I was just eating with them, and we're laughing.

00:57:28.760 And I'll be honest with you, I was crying too, because I was by his locker.

00:57:32.380 And I was with my son, and to be with the people that knew him and loved him means all the world to me.

00:57:42.220 So you never get over something like this, Megan.

00:57:44.840 You never get over something like this, but you learn to live with it.

00:57:47.380 But they don't want us to be sad.

00:57:49.280 They want us to be happy and live a full life.

00:57:52.080 And that's the best way you can honor anybody, is by doing good and live a full life.

00:57:57.000 That's right.

00:57:57.960 So you tell me, because I was reading, and my team prepares, you know, research packets for me, some data about the reception you've been getting in Pennsylvania and elsewhere along this route you're traveling.

00:58:10.620 Can you talk about that?

00:58:11.980 Oh, no.

00:58:12.460 It's been, I was so looking forward to doing it, and I expected a lot out of it.

00:58:18.720 But I've gotten so much more than I could ever expect.

00:58:22.020 It's so emotional, so uplifting, Americans shouting, never forget from their cause.

00:58:28.080 I can't tell you how many people knew I was doing this.

00:58:30.940 I was shocked, to be quite frank with you, how many people cared.

00:58:35.660 And that gives me great hope for America.

00:58:38.860 This walk for me personally has given me unbelievable hope for America.

00:58:43.560 You know, the big mouths that complain about it, they speak over the people who love America.

00:58:51.040 And there's more people out there that love America.

00:58:53.520 We're not perfect.

00:58:54.340 We're never going to be perfect.

00:58:55.760 But let me tell you something.

00:58:56.760 We're the greatest country that ever existed.

00:58:59.300 And we better remember our history because we don't want another 9-11. 0.56

00:59:03.960 That is for sure.

00:59:05.540 But I got to tell you one quick story.

00:59:08.820 Yeah.

00:59:08.980 I was at Shanksville, and I've had firefighters travel with me almost the whole time.

00:59:14.380 And four of them have been cooking for me, different guys, in and out.

00:59:17.200 But that's another story for another day.

00:59:19.460 But this is the honest and God's truth.

00:59:21.400 Every day, brunch and dinner.

00:59:23.800 And I'm going to tell you, the only guy that's going to walk 537 miles and put weight on.

00:59:28.420 So that's because of the way these guys have been cooking for me.

00:59:31.880 They've been taking care of me.

00:59:32.780 But they wanted to honor and do something also because they lost so many great friends that day.

00:59:36.920 But anyway, I was at Shanksville Fire Department on August 21st.

00:59:41.200 And all my buddies, about 70, 75 firefighters, New York City firefighters, cooked breakfast for them.

00:59:47.860 And then we all walked up, hundreds and hundreds of us walked up to the site of Flight 93 that came down in the fields of Shanksville, Pennsylvania.

00:59:57.720 And I had the privilege to go right to the impact zone, right, where Flight 93 came down.

01:00:03.720 And you just hit a nail on the head earlier when you said, these are the 40 Americans that won the first battle of the war against terrorism.

01:00:10.500 When they took that plane back and they saved American lives on the ground and they brought it down.

01:00:14.780 And I was at that impact zone and I was with these New York City firefighters and I knelt down right at the boulder and I put my hand on the boulder and I said to them, anybody want to join me in a prayer?

01:00:25.600 They all came, they knelt down, we put our hands on the boulder and I started to say the Lord's Prayer and the emotions were gushing out of us like I can't even explain to you.

01:00:36.480 Because I know they're thinking of their firefighter brothers that they lost that day.

01:00:41.120 I know they're thinking of all those who perished.

01:00:43.860 I'm thinking of my brother, of course, and I'm thinking of these 40 great heroes.

01:00:47.260 I'm thinking of what happened to Pentagon and it all just came out of us in that moment.

01:00:52.520 And it's a moment I'll never forget the rest of my life.

01:00:55.680 And I know that will be a moment that I will have tomorrow morning when I walk up to ground zero,

01:01:00.420 when I go to 10 house, a firehouse where my brother actually worked a part of his career for the FDNY and his name is on that wall there with 343 other firefighters.

01:01:11.360 And and I and I say my prayer there with my family, with my kids, with my grandkids, with my brothers, with my sisters and others, nephews and nieces.

01:01:20.180 And and you know what?

01:01:22.380 I just pray America never forgets what happened 40 years ago, 20 years ago.

01:01:27.460 That's right.

01:01:28.080 And also, Frank remembers the courage, remembers the courage that happened on that day, not just the cowardice of the terrorists and and the awful behavior,

01:01:36.120 but the courage of guys like Todd Beamer and the others on board that flight.

01:01:40.840 Let's roll. Right.

01:01:42.040 They knew it was going to happen, but they fought.

01:01:44.700 They fought going down guys like your brother, Stephen, who understood very well the risks and were hugging their friends.

01:01:51.080 Goodbye, knowing that they had a wife, knowing that they had kids, but understanding it was their duty and they had pledged to do it.

01:01:56.500 And they did it despite the grave danger.

01:01:59.000 They're an inspiration to me.

01:02:00.180 And so are you love Tunnel to Towers.

01:02:02.920 Good luck tomorrow.

01:02:04.280 Please kiss all those guys for me and gals and give them all big hugs.

01:02:08.160 And not the guys.

01:02:09.800 I'll hug the guys.

01:02:10.380 But listen, Megan, I got to say once again, everybody that you personally have helped build many of the first specially adapted smart homes that we built for our country's most catastrophically injured service members.

01:02:23.200 You were responsible for that.

01:02:24.900 You brought to light the Tunnel to Towers Foundation and the work that we're doing.

01:02:28.980 And I am forever indebted to you for that.

01:02:31.740 And it's just so I know that part of our success is because of you.

01:02:35.380 Of course, we continue doing that work and who we're helping is why we are successful.

01:02:40.120 But thank you.

01:02:41.680 God bless you.

01:02:42.360 And most certainly God bless America.

01:02:44.640 Amen.

01:02:45.300 You guys got to check it out.

01:02:46.380 Tunnel to Towers.

01:02:47.220 Wait, before I let you go.

01:02:48.440 What's I should know this by heart already.

01:02:50.060 The Tunnel to Towers website.

01:02:51.280 I'm going to make it easy.

01:02:52.120 I'm going to make it easy for everybody.

01:02:53.660 Do it.

01:02:54.780 T2T.org.

01:02:55.900 That's T2T.org.

01:02:57.420 It stands for Tunnel to Towers.

01:02:58.980 Yeah.

01:02:59.160 Because my brother ran through the Tunnel to the Towers.

01:03:01.320 T, the number two, T.org.

01:03:03.480 And we ask everybody to do as little as $11 a month.

01:03:07.540 $11 a month.

01:03:09.020 You know, we're delivering 200 mortgage-free homes this year alone, Megan.

01:03:12.060 200 this year.

01:03:13.520 But we need to do that every single year.

01:03:15.580 And we need Americans to chip in and to help these great families that pay the ultimate sacrifice.

01:03:23.000 God bless you, Frank.

01:03:24.680 God bless you, too, Megan.

01:03:26.680 Wow.

01:03:28.080 Coming up next, military veteran and U.S. Congressman Dan Crenshaw will be here with his thoughts on where we are now, 20 years later.

01:03:35.960 And after, Dan, we're going to be taking your calls.

01:03:39.200 Let us know what you think about Afghanistan, about the COVID orders that we got from King Joe at the top of the hour we talked about, or about what you're thinking about this 20 years after 9-11.

01:03:51.340 833-44-MEGYN.

01:03:54.200 That's 833-446-3496.

01:03:57.240 Welcome back, everyone, to The Megyn Kelly Show.

01:04:02.500 We're taking your calls now at 833-44-MEGYN.

01:04:06.620 That's 833-446-3496 if you have thoughts on Biden's COVID announcements or on 9-11 and whether we are safer now than we were on September 10, 2001.

01:04:20.700 Joining me now with his thoughts this morning is Congressman Dan Crenshaw.

01:04:24.020 Congressman, thank you so much for being here.

01:04:25.740 And on this day of all days, I have to thank you for your service as we kick it off.

01:04:30.940 Before we get to Afghanistan and 9-11, can we talk about last night?

01:04:34.400 Because it was an extraordinary moment to listen to the President of the United States issue edicts as though he were king about 80 million Americans having to get a needle in the arm or be fired.

01:04:44.120 So says he.

01:04:45.700 Your thoughts?

01:04:46.940 Well, it's illegal.

01:04:48.000 I mean, I'm not a lawyer.

01:04:49.080 I don't think I need to be to know that you can't create that kind of edict from the executive level.

01:04:54.320 Frankly, I'm not even sure Congress could pass a law to that extent and it'd still be constitutional.

01:05:01.420 But it certainly can't happen from the executive level.

01:05:05.720 It's such a massive overreach.

01:05:08.180 And I also think it just flies in the face of common sense.

01:05:11.740 If you're, you know, let's assume that it was perfectly legal and we had a king that could do such a thing.

01:05:16.700 But then the question would be whether it's even good policy.

01:05:19.900 Is this the right way to deal with a pandemic and to institute this public health measures?

01:05:27.300 And I would say no.

01:05:28.280 I mean, whether we like it or not, we do live in a free country.

01:05:31.760 I like that.

01:05:32.560 Some people apparently don't.

01:05:34.640 And you have to build trust with people.

01:05:36.880 If you want them to do something, there's a variety of public policy measures that you can take to get them to do something.

01:05:43.400 Usually you incentivize it.

01:05:45.380 You might punish a behavior, especially a violent behavior.

01:05:49.160 Or you can do the most extreme version, which is mandates.

01:05:52.280 And we very rarely do that.

01:05:54.020 And to do that for a pandemic like this one, is it bad?

01:05:58.920 Yes.

01:05:59.820 Is it unprecedented?

01:06:00.960 Not quite.

01:06:02.880 You know, we've learned to live with it to an extraordinary degree.

01:06:05.760 Everybody who wants to get vaccinated can.

01:06:08.580 If you do get vaccinated, it's a very high likelihood you will not be hospitalized and that you'll be fine.

01:06:14.100 And personal choice and personal responsibility play a large part in that.

01:06:17.500 And what I think Biden is doing, too, this is the other bad part about this, is he's causing more distrust in the vaccine.

01:06:26.920 The vaccine's already been politicized, right?

01:06:28.980 The left all bad mouth the vaccine when Trump was touting Operation Warp Speed.

01:06:34.280 And now it's flipped.

01:06:37.480 In any case, if you want to build trust in it, you need to be honest with people.

01:06:42.020 Be honest about the pros and cons, the risks and the benefits.

01:06:45.700 And don't make it seem like you're forcing people to do it.

01:06:49.940 That just causes more distrust.

01:06:51.440 I mean, what you resist persists.

01:06:52.920 It's and it's a terrible leadership move.

01:06:56.940 It's not practical.

01:06:58.100 And it flies in the face of who we are as Americans, I think.

01:07:02.700 Have to ask a cynical question.

01:07:04.560 But to what extent you think do you think this is the result of his falling polls?

01:07:09.380 And he gave a little present to more left leaning voters who love vaccine mandates.

01:07:14.880 And he doesn't really care about pissing off Republicans or people who lean right.

01:07:18.940 And here you go.

01:07:20.040 It may be unconstitutional, but they're going to love it.

01:07:22.200 They're going to eat it up.

01:07:22.980 And so let's get those poll numbers back up to where they were before.

01:07:27.460 That's possible.

01:07:28.620 I would have if I was in his inner circle in the White House, I would have advised against

01:07:33.600 that because I really don't see how this could possibly be more popular.

01:07:36.800 You're correct.

01:07:37.680 It's very popular, again, for, you know, primary vote, Democrat primary voters.

01:07:42.460 They want to see these kind of mandates.

01:07:44.260 I mean, it's what they vote for.

01:07:45.480 They want to see tax increases.

01:07:46.980 At least they say they do.

01:07:47.900 I'm not sure how they feel when they actually get that tax bill.

01:07:50.840 But, you know, so that's true.

01:07:52.740 But, you know, with independence, this is still not going to be popular.

01:07:56.360 And I think he got some bad advice if it was political advice, because they probably said

01:08:01.660 something along the lines of, look, Americans don't think that you take action.

01:08:06.320 Right.

01:08:06.520 But we saw what happened in Afghanistan.

01:08:08.020 We sort of just let that fall apart.

01:08:10.100 Americans don't think you take action. 1.00

01:08:11.560 So here's an opportunity for you to really take action.

01:08:14.980 And this is a very leftist way of thinking.

01:08:16.920 Right.

01:08:17.140 They believe there's some sort of moral good in action.

01:08:19.780 Doesn't matter what the action is.

01:08:21.100 It's just it's action.

01:08:22.440 Government is what we do together.

01:08:23.940 And we all have to do it like they believe there's some moral good in that.

01:08:27.980 We're on the right.

01:08:28.980 We believe more in individual freedoms and personal responsibility and decentralized command.

01:08:35.640 They don't.

01:08:36.640 And so they actually think this is a good thing.

01:08:38.400 So there's I think there's a lot of psychology playing into this, perhaps some politics.

01:08:42.180 But I again, I don't see how this makes him more popular.

01:08:45.960 I think it's a bad move if that was their goal.

01:08:49.180 So one issue on which some on the left and some on the right have agreed is this concept

01:08:53.640 of endless wars that we had to pull out of Afghanistan because it was an endless war.

01:08:57.480 And I think that's why you had agreement from between Joe Biden and Donald Trump, you know,

01:09:02.240 who Trump was more of a populist, but he had run on getting pulling, putting an end to the

01:09:06.440 endless war.

01:09:07.520 It's not how all Republicans feel, but it's how he felt in sort of a base of his faction

01:09:11.760 or a faction of his base.

01:09:13.000 So you had an interesting response to that.

01:09:15.820 The so-called endless war crowd that I thought was really powerful.

01:09:20.540 And I'll just read how you put it and let you take it from there.

01:09:23.320 You say the advocates of this position, they have a blind spot.

01:09:26.820 They are unable to distinguish between wasteful nation building and a small residual force

01:09:32.400 that conducts occasional counterterror operations.

01:09:35.960 That's it, right?

01:09:36.980 Isn't that that's the whole thing boiled down into one sentence?

01:09:40.680 Yeah, and I would say there's that is right.

01:09:43.160 And there's there's more to it than even that.

01:09:44.980 They also have a blind spot in the sense that they have an inability to, I think, assess

01:09:51.160 reality, the reality that's given to us.

01:09:54.020 They seem to believe that we can have it both ways, prevent 9-11s, prevent terrorist safe

01:09:58.380 havens and keep all of our troops just safe at home and bases here in the United States.

01:10:03.580 And for some reason, that makes them feel good.

01:10:05.500 They don't quite understand that the purpose of national defense or that in implementing

01:10:09.840 national defense, you do need to be forward deployed.

01:10:12.780 This is so there's a lack of understanding from this crowd.

01:10:15.760 No, because they're looking at things like the bin Laden strike and Soleimani and saying,

01:10:19.460 let's just do that.

01:10:20.440 We'll just keep our troops at home and do that. 1.00

01:10:22.980 That's a great point to bring up.

01:10:24.940 And they do say that all the time, right?

01:10:26.660 They're like, we like that kind of stuff.

01:10:28.320 Like, it's cool.

01:10:29.420 Makes us feel good.

01:10:30.320 We're in and out.

01:10:31.320 And what I tell them is, you like that?

01:10:33.460 That's great.

01:10:34.160 Guess what?

01:10:34.560 You can't do that if you're not forward deployed.

01:10:37.420 Soleimani, we had guys on the ground.

01:10:39.780 Baghdadi, we had people forward deployed.

01:10:41.600 We had Intel assets constantly working for years, networking to figure out where these people

01:10:46.140 are.

01:10:46.560 Same with Osama bin Laden.

01:10:48.420 That took years of Intel gathering and networking and planning.

01:10:52.640 And of course, we launched that mission from Afghanistan.

01:10:56.120 So there's just the no more endless wars crowd is like, I mean, I don't speak very kindly

01:11:01.920 about them.

01:11:02.400 It's based in complete ignorance about how national security works and what it takes to

01:11:06.580 do counterterrorism operations.

01:11:07.940 So that's that's first and foremost.

01:11:09.560 They also live in a dream world where you can have it both ways.

01:11:14.420 And, you know, what I ask them is, do you at least acknowledge that there's a difficult

01:11:18.600 decision to make on day two of the Afghanistan war?

01:11:21.100 Because on day one, everybody agreed on day one.

01:11:23.620 Everybody said, let's go.

01:11:25.500 OK, we're almost 3000 people die that day.

01:11:29.220 So we're going to war for this.

01:11:30.860 Everybody agreed.

01:11:31.900 Now, day two is always going to be a difficult decision.

01:11:34.900 And the decision is always this.

01:11:37.060 Do we just pull out and leave and allow the exact same conditions to materialize that

01:11:41.600 led to September 11th?

01:11:43.200 And they will materialize when we leave.

01:11:45.520 Or do we stay and continue to fight that battle there so that it isn't fought here?

01:11:50.440 And history is on my side on this.

01:11:52.460 Look, in 1993, we had the World Trade Center bombings.

01:11:54.660 1998, we had the embassy bombings.

01:11:56.500 2000, we had the USS Cole bombing.

01:11:58.480 They got bolder with every attack.

01:12:00.460 And then they finally got the most bold with 9-11.

01:12:02.580 We haven't seen attacks like that for 20 years.

01:12:06.940 So to say, and so the No More Unless Wars crowd also makes the argument that we got nothing

01:12:10.280 for these last 20 years.

01:12:11.380 It was just all a big waste, right?

01:12:12.820 And it's a very emotional argument that they make.

01:12:15.360 But we also got no more 9-11s.

01:12:17.760 Right.

01:12:17.980 We got no attacks on the homeland.

01:12:19.360 And that's not nothing.

01:12:20.360 That's pretty meaningful.

01:12:21.660 And they just ignore that reality.

01:12:24.180 I, as someone who is relatively young still, that's how I feel too.

01:12:28.720 I feel like you guys were over there fighting.

01:12:31.220 You kept me safe.

01:12:31.980 You kept my family safe.

01:12:33.640 You, we didn't get nothing out of it.

01:12:35.620 It ended poorly because we gave up.

01:12:38.080 We gave up.

01:12:38.740 I don't even know if you can say we lost.

01:12:40.140 We gave up.

01:12:41.740 But we didn't have another 9-11 attack.

01:12:43.900 And we were terrified of that, in particular during the first 10 years.

01:12:47.440 But even thereafter, look what, you know, when ISIS reared its ugly head and we had to

01:12:50.980 fight that.

01:12:51.460 Those guys were over there, all of you, over there fighting on our behalf.

01:12:54.540 But you touch on the terrorism risk now and how high it is.

01:12:57.740 And I've been stunned at how cavalier our leaders sound about, A, acknowledging, sure, it's big.

01:13:03.360 The risk has gone up.

01:13:04.900 And, B, talking about how it could happen within a year.

01:13:07.160 You know, you got Millie saying, yeah, within 12 months we could be hit at home.

01:13:10.680 The Defense Secretary Lloyd Austin said Thursday, al-Qaeda may attempt to regenerate following

01:13:14.820 an American withdrawal and said, but the U.S. is prepared to prevent an al-Qaeda comeback

01:13:19.000 in Afghanistan.

01:13:20.460 We put the Taliban on notice that we expect them not to allow that to happen. 0.93

01:13:25.660 An al-Qaeda comeback. 0.79

01:13:26.640 Oh, otherwise we're putting it in their permanent file.

01:13:30.340 I mean, what is he saying?

01:13:31.800 How, what are we going to do?

01:13:33.880 We're going to write a really strongly worded letter from the international community.

01:13:37.300 And it's going to make the Taliban feel really icky inside. 0.83

01:13:40.280 And then they're going to do whatever we want, right?

01:13:42.060 No one likes you.

01:13:42.980 Like, yeah, it's, yeah, I'm really upset with you.

01:13:46.340 No, it's ridiculous.

01:13:47.880 And, you know, like to Millie's credit, I'm not sure what Defense Secretary Austin's advice

01:13:51.600 was, but for the most part, the military has always advised, you need to keep your presence

01:13:55.020 there.

01:13:55.740 You need to keep your presence there or these things will happen.

01:13:58.580 And what Democrats have said, what Joe Biden has said, and what our own no more in this

01:14:02.900 war's crowd on our side has said, yeah, but we know we should obviously keep an eye on

01:14:08.000 counterterrorism, but we have to pull the troops out.

01:14:09.760 Like, it's, it's just a given to them that you just have to pull the troops out.

01:14:13.820 And I always ask why, why exactly is that a given, you know, given the costs of doing

01:14:19.880 so?

01:14:20.220 And they're like, well, when would you pull them out, Dan?

01:14:22.360 Well, when the cost benefit makes sense, when, when the benefits of pulling them out are

01:14:26.660 higher than the benefits of staying that's when, and that's certainly didn't happen now.

01:14:30.340 Because I don't think anybody can argue that the out, the current outcome that we've seen

01:14:34.000 was somehow a superior outcome to what we had six months ago.

01:14:38.680 This gets to how you initially asked this question with, with, with quoting me was people

01:14:43.180 can't tell the difference between nation building and a, and a, and a residual counterterrorism

01:14:47.080 force.

01:14:47.480 Now, the nation building argument is more complex than, than I think people give it credit,

01:14:54.400 right?

01:14:54.780 It's not necessarily about building a democracy.

01:14:57.260 Condoleezza Rice was just on Ben Shapiro's podcast and a really good explanation of this.

01:15:02.980 And she, and she says, look, again, you either let the conditions materialize that cause 9-11,

01:15:08.280 or you try to build up a government to some extent that you can partner with and that they

01:15:13.080 can eventually take over.

01:15:14.360 And that takes a lot more time than Americans are willing to give it.

01:15:17.040 Unfortunately, people forget South Korea didn't have Democrat elections until the eighties.

01:15:21.440 So we were there 30 years as an occupational force stopping war there, by the way, the

01:15:25.660 war never ended.

01:15:26.500 It's an armistice, but we, and we still have almost 30,000 troops there when they didn't

01:15:29.860 even have a democracy until the eighties.

01:15:32.200 Okay.

01:15:32.300 So these things take time, but was it worth it?

01:15:34.860 Was it worth our presence?

01:15:35.960 I mean, in hindsight, it seems very clear that our presence in South Korea was worth it.

01:15:41.460 And, um, but, but we have a high amount of political impatience and a complete inability

01:15:47.140 to see that this wasn't really an endless war.

01:15:49.720 We had security forces there, very few troops, no deaths in 18 months.

01:15:54.600 You know, that that's, that's a, that's a sustainable operation.

01:15:58.100 And now if it was 200,000, let me ask you something on the other side, let me ask you

01:16:04.060 something other, because when they say no deaths in 18 months, the, the, you know, we had

01:16:07.220 struck a deal with the Taliban that, so that's, that's, isn't that why we didn't have any casualties

01:16:11.220 because we had declared that we were surrendering, I mean, that we were leaving.

01:16:14.520 So they, you know, they were smart.

01:16:16.600 They, they kept their powder dry saying, be quiet.

01:16:19.280 They surrendered.

01:16:19.780 They're leaving.

01:16:21.460 It's possible.

01:16:22.620 I, I, I think we all kind of decided to not do very much fighting and sort of allow for

01:16:28.920 the stalemate to materialize, which is sustainable.

01:16:32.380 Um, but isn't the relevant timeframe, like how many guys were we losing prior to Trump's

01:16:37.440 deal with the Taliban, right? 0.82

01:16:38.500 Like that's since 2014, I mean, an average of six a year.

01:16:44.120 Uh, so you're losing a lot more military guys to motorcycle accidents and things like that.

01:16:48.160 Okay.

01:16:48.180 So how do you, as a guy who's, you know, sacrificed your own blood and treasure, um, fighting for

01:16:53.380 our country over there, how do you, how do you explain to the people who say that's six

01:16:56.300 too many per year?

01:16:57.160 You know, how do you want to be the one, this is sort of what Joe Biden's saying.

01:16:59.720 Do you want to be the one that calls up those six gold star families and says, what was

01:17:03.880 I, you know, why do we have them there?

01:17:05.860 Um, cause I've heard you talk about that.

01:17:07.820 People talk about the military these days, Dan, like they're, you know, very fragile

01:17:12.180 and they don't understand that risk and death is part of the job.

01:17:16.240 That's not to say we want to see it, but I'd love to get your thoughts.

01:17:20.000 Yeah.

01:17:20.380 I mean, what I tell people is again, especially the no more endless wars crowd that moralizes

01:17:24.680 over me, calls me a neocon because I have sensible opinions about foreign policy.

01:17:29.540 I say, look, I don't, I don't need your pity.

01:17:32.540 I don't need your protection.

01:17:33.940 You have guys like me in this society because we're willing to go over and we understand

01:17:38.060 the dangers abroad.

01:17:38.880 Even if you don't, we understand that those people are enemies, whether we believe there

01:17:43.520 are enemies or whether we believe we're at war with them or not, you don't want to see

01:17:46.980 that reality.

01:17:47.960 Fine.

01:17:48.600 There are plenty of people who do see that reality and are willing to risk their lives

01:17:51.940 to do it.

01:17:52.620 So stay out of our way.

01:17:55.240 You know, we are not victims.

01:17:57.300 Veterans are not victims.

01:17:58.380 Active duty military are not victims.

01:18:00.060 We willingly sign up for this and we understand what we're getting into.

01:18:03.660 Again, even if the no more endless wars crowd doesn't, even if their naivete is so profound

01:18:09.240 that they cannot see it, that see the reasoning that we're there, we'll still do it.

01:18:14.340 And, you know, the other thing that I like to say, and I see this from our young populists

01:18:18.360 on the right, they like to say, well, I mean, we just go over there and cause these wars.

01:18:22.300 That's why they hate us.

01:18:23.040 That's why they keep attacking us.

01:18:25.300 There's so much ignorance associated with that opinion.

01:18:28.000 It's, it's, it's really hard to fathom and it's just not true.

01:18:31.800 They've hated us because for a long time, because we're Western civilization, because we're

01:18:35.540 Christian, because we represent something that, that, that goes completely against their 0.99

01:18:40.740 version of, of, of civilization and reality.

01:18:44.600 You know, we helped Osama bin Laden fight the Soviets.

01:18:47.420 We helped Osama bin Laden defend, we defended Saudi Arabia, his homeland from Saddam Hussein.

01:18:52.460 What is it we did to this person that caused him to, to build up Al Qaeda and commit 9-11?

01:18:59.120 Nothing.

01:18:59.880 Now they hate us because they hate us and there were a war with us, whether we're at war with

01:19:03.260 them or not.

01:19:03.800 We weren't at war on September 10th, 2001, but they were at war with us.

01:19:07.960 And, and again, that, that naivete has gotten us into so much trouble.

01:19:11.340 It, it caused, it caused the last month of mayhem and destruction and death that we've

01:19:17.560 seen that was purely based out of the sense of false compassion that the no more or less

01:19:22.120 endless wars crowd has and the naivete that they engage in.

01:19:26.800 I was reading a story, you know, we had Deborah Burlingame on earlier this show, whose brother

01:19:30.640 Charles was the pilot of a flight 77 that was flown into the Pentagon by the terrorists.

01:19:35.580 And Khalid Sheikh Mohammed's trial, the, they're in pre-trial motions right now on that.

01:19:40.140 Finally, after 20 years, it's coming up, supposed to take place.

01:19:42.880 The actual trial is supposed to start, I think in November.

01:19:45.560 Sadly, she had another brother who was supposed to be a witness in the trial and he, and he

01:19:49.440 died.

01:19:49.780 It's been so long he died.

01:19:52.000 And anyway, so he's going to go on trial and I read a story about Khalid Sheikh Mohammed.

01:19:55.840 You could pick so many if you want to talk about what a bad guy he is and what, how awful

01:19:59.420 Al Qaeda is, who will, who will be rebuilding in Afghanistan. 0.94

01:20:02.960 This is a small one, but it just, to me, I don't know, it's just sticking in my craw.

01:20:08.420 He was apparently at a pre-trial motion because, you know, we put our bad guys on trial and,

01:20:13.460 and give them due process.

01:20:14.760 It's not perfect, but we give it to him.

01:20:17.280 He, he wrote down the numbers of the four flights, the two planes that went into the

01:20:23.340 twin towers, the plane that went into the Pentagon and the one that was brought down

01:20:26.160 in Shanksville, and he flew the paper airplane with those four flight numbers over by the

01:20:33.080 family members who were sitting in the courtroom.

01:20:36.440 Wow.

01:20:38.180 This is what we're dealing with.

01:20:39.960 Yeah.

01:20:40.460 It's pure evil that, you know, this isn't, these aren't people who, you know, come to

01:20:46.320 the conclusion later on in life that they may have made a mistake.

01:20:49.020 Like, these are, you know, these aren't people like begging for parole.

01:20:53.360 Like, no, I look really, I've learned, you know, that they're not those people.

01:20:56.820 They never have been.

01:20:59.060 That, that radicalism started a long time ago before America had anything to do with

01:21:03.440 it.

01:21:04.260 And we could go into a long history of Sunni Wahhabism and all that, but it's, it's,

01:21:08.400 it is, I don't know where this sort of self-loathing came from in the United States.

01:21:13.260 It started on liberal college campuses and it infiltrated the rights in our little populist

01:21:19.200 movements.

01:21:20.040 And it's based in ignorance and naivete.

01:21:22.680 It needs to stop.

01:21:24.180 We need to stand up for ourselves and our values.

01:21:26.300 I mean, you know, this is, this is something Trump got right about just America first.

01:21:30.620 And, you know, what does that mean?

01:21:32.480 In many senses, it, well, there's policy associated with that, with that phrase, but I think it

01:21:39.000 also means just standing up for ourselves as a, as a good moral nation.

01:21:43.560 Like we're not always at fault here.

01:21:46.080 Okay.

01:21:46.620 You know, because the left likes to say that whether it's immigration, whether it's, it's

01:21:50.060 terrorism.

01:21:50.980 No, the only reason people are immigrating here in droves is because we cause climate 0.99

01:21:55.120 change and like that.

01:21:56.160 So they have to, you know, you'll hear things like that or because of the bandana republics

01:22:00.220 that we set up decades ago.

01:22:02.240 And so that's, what's happening now.

01:22:03.800 It's all our fault.

01:22:05.320 And this is, this is, this, this is very self-destructive reasoning.

01:22:08.800 Do you feel I, after that speech yesterday on the, on the heels of Afghanistan, and I

01:22:13.840 have to say, he does seem desperate to change the conversation Biden does from Afghanistan

01:22:17.920 for good reasons.

01:22:18.840 I mean, his poll numbers are through the floor for a reason.

01:22:21.360 Um, I, I just feel like there, this growing sense of malaise in the country, you know,

01:22:26.840 between the never ending COVID crisis, the increasing big thumb of government cracking

01:22:32.260 down on how we must live.

01:22:33.540 And, you know, we have to put the masks over our faces.

01:22:36.200 Now we have to get the mandatory vaccine, whether we want it or not, even if we've already

01:22:39.740 had COVID, which is absurd.

01:22:41.240 And you can't object.

01:22:42.840 There aren't exceptions for things like that.

01:22:44.960 There's no reasonable person to whom one can appeal, right?

01:22:48.140 I had Rand Paul on yesterday.

01:22:49.240 He was like, fight, resist.

01:22:50.200 Well, how, how my kids got to go to school.

01:22:53.020 I, you know, I got to go in the grocery store.

01:22:54.540 You know, it's, I'd love to be one of those people who winds up in a videotape in Walmart,

01:22:58.040 but the truth is, it's not going to make that much of a difference.

01:23:00.560 It hasn't thus far.

01:23:01.880 Do you see all that stuff?

01:23:02.960 You see what happened in Afghanistan, the loss of the 13 Marines, the increase of terror again,

01:23:06.540 the 9-11 mark 20 years later, and we're still in danger.

01:23:09.560 I don't know, feel a sense of malaise and concern that we're not about to make a massive course

01:23:16.160 correction.

01:23:17.160 Yeah.

01:23:18.380 It, you know, I wasn't around in the Jimmy Carter area or era, but a lot of people draw

01:23:25.440 an analogy to that.

01:23:27.300 And it seems accurate.

01:23:29.340 There does this seem to be this malaise, this sense that we're just going in the wrong,

01:23:34.520 wrong direction.

01:23:35.180 And what's very frustrating about it is in order to reverse that direction, Biden has

01:23:39.700 to just stop doing things, just stop taking actions.

01:23:43.560 Go back to the basement.

01:23:44.540 You love it there.

01:23:46.180 Yeah.

01:23:46.540 You liked it.

01:23:47.440 You can go back to Delaware.

01:23:49.020 Go ahead and reverse all of the nonsense that's been over the last seven months, please.

01:23:53.280 Bring us back to the status quo because we were doing fine.

01:23:56.880 America was coming back on track.

01:23:59.060 I mean, you think what you will about Donald Trump, the policies do work.

01:24:01.940 And these policies are just very generic Republican establishment policies.

01:24:07.420 Ignore the tweets and look at the policy and see how it works working out.

01:24:11.640 These things work.

01:24:13.280 All right.

01:24:13.580 It doesn't create the utopia that the left desires.

01:24:16.120 And see, this is, this is where, this is where you get into trouble.

01:24:19.720 Well, the left gets into trouble because they're utopianess fundamentally.

01:24:22.380 And they believe that it's always more action that is needed.

01:24:25.980 And we will make people be who we think they should be.

01:24:28.980 You know, whether it's people who take vaccines or whether it's people who pay more in taxes

01:24:33.480 or do more things, whatever it is, they want you to be something.

01:24:37.120 They want to mold you and they're willing to, they're willing to exert government control

01:24:41.960 to enforce that.

01:24:43.500 And it always backfires because they always ignore the second, third order consequences of

01:24:48.400 all of these actions.

01:24:49.200 Again, whatever these actions are, whether it's in foreign policy or economics or public

01:24:53.520 health, they ignore these second, third order consequences.

01:24:56.560 This is why liberalism is a disaster of a governing philosophy.

01:25:01.420 Not because there isn't some, and look, there's some things we should listen to liberals on.

01:25:07.040 Like they have an extra sense of compassion, right?

01:25:08.980 They think people should have health care and access to it.

01:25:11.840 I like that as well.

01:25:13.180 But I have a different way of doing it that is more sustainable and takes into account

01:25:17.200 second, third order consequences, takes into account the limiting principles of governing

01:25:21.560 in a way that liberals just never will.

01:25:24.640 So I don't mean to wane philosophical too much on this, on this subject, but.

01:25:29.520 Well, I like, I like ending on a sort of note of unity.

01:25:33.400 Sort of.

01:25:34.120 We'll take what we can get.

01:25:35.100 Listen, I'm thinking about you and everyone who served on behalf of the country.

01:25:38.860 Thank you for your service.

01:25:39.620 Listen, I'll see you very soon.

01:25:42.000 Yeah, I'm looking forward to it.

01:25:43.320 Thanks, Megan.

01:25:44.020 All the best, Dan.

01:25:45.060 We'd love to know what you think on Congressman Crenshaw's remarks on where we are now, 20

01:25:51.280 years later.

01:25:52.260 Are we safer?

01:25:53.400 Are we less safe as a result of the Afghanistan withdrawal right now than we were on September

01:25:57.340 10th, 2001?

01:25:59.160 Give us a call.

01:25:59.940 833.

01:26:00.440 We're taking your calls right after this break.

01:26:01.820 So call right now.

01:26:02.480 833-44-MEGYN.

01:26:04.860 833-446-3496.

01:26:09.620 Welcome back, everyone, to the Megyn Kelly show.

01:26:13.940 Here's what I'd love to know.

01:26:15.300 If you are unvaccinated, are you going to do it now that Biden's going to make your boss

01:26:20.620 make you get it right?

01:26:23.120 Is that convincing you?

01:26:24.720 I mean, you don't want to lose your job.

01:26:25.940 So what are you going to do?

01:26:27.100 Call me.

01:26:27.640 833-44-MEGYN.

01:26:29.660 That's 833-446-3496.

01:26:33.540 833-446-3496.

01:26:36.040 By the way, you can also submit questions anytime via email at questions at devilmaycaremedia.com.

01:26:42.180 And that's where we get our first question from.

01:26:44.200 We're going to get to the callers in one second.

01:26:45.700 Steve Krakauer is our executive producer and is bringing us one of our email questions just

01:26:49.680 to kick things off.

01:26:50.740 Hey, Steve.

01:26:51.340 Hey, Megan.

01:26:51.940 Yes, this one comes to us from JC.

01:26:53.720 And she sent us this email before Biden's speech yesterday.

01:26:56.900 So we'll see if that changes the equation.

01:26:59.040 But she is a part-time college student.

01:27:00.660 She's also an office manager in an office that, just based on how she described it,

01:27:04.680 probably has less than 100 employees.

01:27:06.260 So maybe she's not under the new mandate.

01:27:08.240 She has a boss who's telling her that she has to get vaccinated.

01:27:11.540 The only exceptions are for religious or medical.

01:27:13.760 She does not want to do that.

01:27:15.040 And she wants to know any advice.

01:27:16.160 She said, should I cave for doing this job that I love?

01:27:19.060 Or should I hold true to my principles?

01:27:22.120 JC.

01:27:23.720 I feel you.

01:27:24.840 I wish I had a clear answer.

01:27:26.560 I don't.

01:27:28.400 I've been asking my same guests, my guests these past few days, that same question.

01:27:33.180 I feel it, too.

01:27:34.440 You know, I don't know what my school is saying.

01:27:36.460 I've got to vaccinate.

01:27:37.220 We've got to vaccinate our child who turns 12 in September or else.

01:27:41.260 And if he's 16 and they only put the mark at 16 because that's where they've given the

01:27:46.340 permanent approval for Pfizer and we don't do it, he's expelled.

01:27:51.300 Well, I don't I don't want to.

01:27:52.820 I got the vaccine.

01:27:54.280 I don't know about my son.

01:27:55.500 He's too young.

01:27:56.420 It's too untested.

01:27:57.320 So I understand exactly how you're feeling.

01:28:00.120 I think it is a little different with grownups because the they've done more testing on the

01:28:05.060 adult vaccine.

01:28:05.700 And I have fewer concerns about its safety.

01:28:09.380 So, look, I know that some people sort of stir the pot.

01:28:13.100 I mean, frankly, there are shit stirs who really stir the pot a lot and get you really worried about

01:28:17.940 the vaccines.

01:28:18.420 And I think if you go too far down those Internet rabbit holes, I do think you can get misled.

01:28:22.680 So be careful about I don't know if I give up my job over this, you know, as an adult.

01:28:27.200 I just don't I don't think I do it.

01:28:29.020 But I can't tell you what to do because I know not everybody feels the way I do about

01:28:31.940 the vaccines.

01:28:32.420 I think if I were in your position, I'd get it.

01:28:34.340 But I respect your struggle, you know, because I'm feeling similar to you when it comes to

01:28:38.600 the vaccines.

01:28:39.460 Let's get to our callers who are waiting so patiently.

01:28:42.280 Let's go to Vicky.

01:28:43.940 I figured out how to do it myself.

01:28:45.260 You guys don't have to ask my team.

01:28:46.640 Vicky, North Carolina, how are you doing?

01:28:48.240 And what's your question?

01:28:49.320 I'm doing good.

01:28:50.080 And I hope you are, too.

01:28:51.780 Doing great.

01:28:52.360 Thank you.

01:28:52.660 I do have the question that I was going to ask you.

01:28:55.960 Let me preface it by saying I am not vaccinated and I don't intend to be vaccinated.

01:29:01.900 And I hope that every I just would hope that every single person in this country who does

01:29:08.260 not want to be vaccinated will stand up and say, no, take my job.

01:29:14.080 Go ahead, because you won't find the millions who don't do it.

01:29:19.400 You won't find anyone for their job.

01:29:21.960 What are they going to do?

01:29:22.900 Find everybody, put them all in jail.

01:29:25.100 So at some point, Americans need to stand up and say, no, you know what?

01:29:30.740 I've had enough.

01:29:31.860 I've had it.

01:29:32.780 Let me ask you a follow up question.

01:29:34.000 Does it I listen to him yesterday.

01:29:35.800 I felt angry, angry that he thought he had the power to do this to everybody.

01:29:40.720 Furious, furious that you know what?

01:29:43.400 Why does he want unvaccinated people to be hated?

01:29:48.100 Why is he fomenting this division and this hatred?

01:29:51.960 It's pure hatred and anger.

01:29:54.740 I swear to God, I'm scared now ever for anyone to know that I'm unvaccinated because the violence

01:30:02.540 and the hatred that come out and and he foments it.

01:30:06.860 I don't I don't understand why.

01:30:09.640 Why?

01:30:09.820 You're right.

01:30:10.220 He better watch it because it's it's not going to end well.

01:30:14.340 He's got to tone down the rhetoric.

01:30:16.100 Are we OK?

01:30:16.400 How much time do we have left to make sure?

01:30:19.080 30 seconds.

01:30:20.000 Oh, all right.

01:30:20.740 Listen, we're going to get more calls in tomorrow.

01:30:22.440 I can see the board lighting up.

01:30:23.460 I'm going to kick Steve out of this segment so I can get to more listener calls.

01:30:26.700 We had to yell at him a little bit.

01:30:28.480 It wasn't his fault.

01:30:29.360 I don't know whose fault it was.

01:30:30.280 We'll figure it out.

01:30:31.060 What?

01:30:31.460 There were no problems.

01:30:32.920 Listen, thanks for joining us today and our first week on Sirius XM.

01:30:36.220 Hope you stay tuned and you can listen to the show later via podcast.

01:30:39.220 You can watch us on YouTube if you so desire and hope you'll continue to tuning up us into

01:30:45.520 us, even though we're having some some very small technical difficulties.

01:30:49.240 So have a great weekend.

The Megyn Kelly Show - September 10, 2021

9⧸11 20 Years Later and Biden's Vaccine Mandate, with Rep. Dan Crenshaw, Debra Burlingame, Frank Siller, and Shannen Coffin ｜ Ep. 157

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