The Megyn Kelly Show - Afghanistan, Abortion, and COVID, with Lara Logan, Charles C.W. Cooke, and Alan Dershowitz ｜ Ep. 154

00:00:00.500 Welcome to The Megyn Kelly Show, your home for open, honest, and provocative conversations.

00:00:12.120 Hey everyone, I'm Megyn Kelly, and welcome to the very first episode of The Megyn Kelly

00:00:16.980 Show, live on SiriusXM.

00:00:19.100 We are so happy to be with you and excited for this next iteration of our show, which

00:00:23.440 we actually just first launched as a podcast about, well, just under a year ago now.

00:00:27.860 Well, we're doing this program because we believe there's an urgent need for independent

00:00:32.840 voices in the media landscape, hosts who are not beholden to corporate agendas, partisan

00:00:38.320 jerseys, or simply just committed to stoking your outrage day in and day out.

00:00:42.980 Here on SiriusXM, we're going to continue our mission of bringing you coverage of the news,

00:00:47.460 politics, culture, law, entertainment, and all the rest of it in a truly fair and balanced

00:00:51.960 way. 0.98

00:00:52.320 We are not woke, and we're no one's sycophant, and we're entirely over the bullshit censorship 0.62

00:00:58.800 of free speech and debate that has seized hold of most media, education, Hollywood, sports, 0.70

00:01:04.040 and corporate America.

00:01:05.160 Nearly two-thirds of the American people right now are afraid to express their actual political

00:01:09.860 opinions.

00:01:10.640 Think about that.

00:01:11.600 In the United States of America, nearly two-thirds don't want to say how they feel.

00:01:15.900 It's insane, but it's our reality.

00:01:18.220 That's it.

00:01:47.580 It's a simple mission, really, and we are all hoping that you will not only enjoy the

00:01:52.520 show in its new format, but that you'll call in.

00:01:55.220 This is actually going to be fun because we can talk to one another, and you'll let us

00:01:58.180 know what you think when we take calls later in the program.

00:02:01.280 I've never done a show where I actually get to interact with the viewers or the listeners

00:02:05.000 real time, so that'll be fun.

00:02:08.240 So without further ado, let's get to our great guests.

00:02:10.520 We have an awesome lineup today.

00:02:11.720 We've got Charles C.W.

00:02:12.760 Cook of National Review.

00:02:14.580 Laura Logan will be here of Fox Nation, and later Alan Dershowitz, Professor Emeritus of

00:02:20.720 Harvard Law, who had this very funny, weird dust-up with Larry David.

00:02:24.340 He's going to come on to talk about the abortion stuff happening down in Texas, but you've got

00:02:28.620 to hear the Larry David story.

00:02:29.920 Okay.

00:02:30.140 We're going to start, though, with Charles Cook.

00:02:32.320 Charles, what a pleasure.

00:02:33.200 Very excited to have you as our very first guest as we're live on Sirius.

00:02:38.500 Thank you so much for having me.

00:02:39.940 Pleasure.

00:02:40.940 Okay.

00:02:41.240 So let's dig in with COVID.

00:02:43.240 You had a really interesting piece on National Review that basically said, here's the bitter

00:02:47.300 truth.

00:02:48.300 There's no rhyme or reason to this virus, and that the pandemic doesn't hinge on whether

00:02:54.020 the state has a Democrat or a Republican in the governor's mansion.

00:02:59.040 The New York Times had an article suggesting the same, and some in the media lost their

00:03:06.120 minds.

00:03:06.900 You pointed out in your piece, MSNBC's Kyle Griffin attacked the Times.

00:03:11.080 This isn't true.

00:03:12.480 Do better, because the Times had said, you know, exactly why Florida has been hit so hard

00:03:17.800 remains an elusive question.

00:03:20.200 Soledad O'Brien called it journalistic malpractice.

00:03:22.900 They really want to blame DeSantis and his aversion to mask mandates.

00:03:28.720 And the truth is, the science doesn't bear that up.

00:03:32.000 They really can't do that.

00:03:33.980 No.

00:03:34.480 I think there are two things going on here.

00:03:36.880 One is obvious.

00:03:38.140 There is a partisan imperative here to fold this into our politics.

00:03:44.120 There's also a desire to poison certain people ahead of 2024, Ron DeSantis being one of them.

00:03:54.960 But I think the broader problem and the reason that this works to an extent is people just

00:03:59.800 don't like it when they're told that there's not a great deal they can do.

00:04:04.680 Human beings don't enjoy that.

00:04:06.760 They much prefer a conspiracy theory, because a conspiracy theory gives you an easy answer.

00:04:11.040 It gives you an easy explanation, but it also gives you an easy answer.

00:04:14.140 If you can find the evil man up in the tower, put him in prison, then it'll stop.

00:04:20.140 COVID doesn't really work like that.

00:04:21.700 I mean, there are some things we know.

00:04:23.260 The vaccines work pretty well.

00:04:25.580 They're not foolproof.

00:04:27.360 They haven't prevented everyone from getting COVID.

00:04:29.820 But you are very unlikely to die if you get vaccinated, which is why you should get vaccinated.

00:04:35.580 I have a lot of friends around here in Florida who work in the medical profession,

00:04:39.220 and that's the one thing that they will say is the pattern.

00:04:42.260 If you're vaccinated, you're probably not going to die if you get it.

00:04:45.720 Other than that, it's tough.

00:04:49.340 There are some states that have a lockdown.

00:04:51.400 There are some states that have mask mandates.

00:04:54.400 There are some states that have school masking policies.

00:04:59.040 It doesn't seem to make too much of a difference.

00:05:01.820 Israel has tried everything. 0.93

00:05:04.300 Israel had pretty draconian lockdowns, enforced by drones, no less.

00:05:09.980 They vaccinated everyone before any other country. 0.62

00:05:12.400 They're doing booster shots now.

00:05:14.120 They have countrywide mask mandates in schools.

00:05:17.540 They still have mask mandates inside.

00:05:20.080 And they're getting absolutely slammed.

00:05:22.740 And it's not because they did nothing wrong.

00:05:24.400 It's not because they're bad people.

00:05:25.840 It's not because the witch doctors dislike them.

00:05:28.320 It's because this is a horrible and unpredictable disease,

00:05:31.780 and feedback loops are really hard to predict.

00:05:35.140 And the point I wanted to make is, look, with the exception of Andrew Cuomo,

00:05:39.140 who obviously made an active mistake and then tried to cover it up,

00:05:43.380 there's really not much good pointing at Phil Murphy of New Jersey

00:05:47.160 or Rhonda Santos of Florida or Governor Newsom in California

00:05:51.240 or Greg Abbott in Texas and saying, aha, it's because of them.

00:05:55.000 It's them personally.

00:05:56.080 It's their ideology.

00:05:57.100 It's the people who vote for them.

00:05:58.440 It's not.

00:05:59.220 It's not how it works, and we need to cut it out.

00:06:03.000 But to your point, people do want to do something.

00:06:05.580 And if you don't want to make people do something, you get villainized, right?

00:06:10.900 That's what's happening to DeSantis,

00:06:12.160 and it's happening to regular old American citizens

00:06:14.620 who oppose vaccine mandates or mask mandates.

00:06:19.020 You know, to your point, it's like I have no objection

00:06:20.820 if somebody wants to send their child to class with a mask on

00:06:24.180 or do anything with a mask on.

00:06:25.580 That's their business.

00:06:26.660 But we've gotten to this point now where if you don't want the government

00:06:30.300 to mandate that your eight-year-old have a piece of cloth over his face

00:06:34.320 eight or nine hours a day, even though there's no proof that children

00:06:39.020 are particularly good vectors of this virus,

00:06:42.560 and they remain, even though Delta has been problematic,

00:06:45.920 they remain at very, very low risk to the outcomes of COVID,

00:06:51.640 you're somehow part of the problem.

00:06:54.260 And we refuse.

00:06:56.300 We refuse to look at the data in Israel.

00:06:58.360 We refuse to look at the limited data that's come out showing

00:07:01.240 that masks have any effect one way or another in the school setting, right?

00:07:06.440 Like people just, they feel like something must be done,

00:07:09.540 and if you're against the mandating of doing it, you're on the wrong side.

00:07:14.300 Well, and I think the idea is that if you're on the anti-mandate side,

00:07:20.680 then you don't care enough.

00:07:22.440 And I think this is what this is ultimately about.

00:07:24.460 It's a superstition.

00:07:26.180 You know, I can't count the number of times I've now heard that

00:07:28.900 Governor DeSantis doesn't tweet enough about vaccines.

00:07:32.180 There's this new conventional wisdom that the reason that there are still people,

00:07:38.780 SRR in every state, in fact, Florida's numbers are quite good,

00:07:41.840 who are unvaccinated is because DeSantis hasn't been emphatic enough,

00:07:47.040 and it's just not true.

00:07:48.940 I mean, in the early days, he was emphatic indeed.

00:07:52.920 He ran around the state for months, started with the elderly, 0.99

00:07:57.280 and every publicity stunt he could imagine, he used.

00:08:02.180 World War II veterans, Holocaust survivors,

00:08:05.460 we saw them vaccinated first on television to send the message,

00:08:10.340 look, this is available, and it's worthwhile.

00:08:15.980 You know, there are now much higher hanging pieces of fruit.

00:08:23.320 And we're not talking about people lining up around the block,

00:08:25.980 as I did, to get the vaccine.

00:08:28.040 We're talking about the people who don't want it,

00:08:30.000 either because they're indifferent towards politics,

00:08:32.580 they don't follow politics,

00:08:33.940 or because they're actively ideologically opposed to getting a vaccine.

00:08:40.000 The idea that if the governor tweeted more, 0.92

00:08:42.280 those people would come around, I think, is silly.

00:08:44.860 And, you know, we need to understand that. 0.91

00:08:47.700 And so we have a choice to make.

00:08:50.740 We can either lambast them and condescend to them and target them,

00:08:54.580 or we can keep trying to convince them.

00:08:56.240 And those who won't be convinced, and those people will exist.

00:08:58.480 This is the United States.

00:09:00.740 Those people can be provided for.

00:09:04.180 And, you know, it's one reason why the Biden administration moved on to,

00:09:07.760 for example, Regneron,

00:09:09.240 which it bought the whole supply of, I believe,

00:09:11.600 and then has been helping states distribute it,

00:09:15.460 because, you know, you have a choice.

00:09:16.980 If someone says, I'm not going to get this vaccine,

00:09:18.680 and then they get COVID,

00:09:19.740 well, you can say, well, that's your lot.

00:09:21.460 Sorry, mate.

00:09:22.020 Or you can say, well, actually, we have a backup plan.

00:09:25.720 And I think the idea that having a backup plan

00:09:27.940 and acknowledging some people are going to remain unvaccinated

00:09:30.740 is somehow to indulge in sort of anti-vax ideas

00:09:35.380 or to diminish the effort to get people vaccinated 0.96

00:09:40.200 is really, really silly.

00:09:41.640 There has never been a time in American history 0.95

00:09:43.660 where the government has said,

00:09:44.660 you should go and do this,

00:09:45.520 and everyone has gone and done it.

00:09:48.380 That's not how we're built.

00:09:49.560 No, I was listening to a great,

00:09:52.100 it was a podcast on commentary,

00:09:53.860 you know, from Commentary Magazine,

00:09:55.440 John Pedoras and company.

00:09:57.040 And they were talking about how amazing the vaccines are.

00:09:59.540 They really are.

00:10:01.000 It's something we should be proud of.

00:10:02.420 You've been saying it all along.

00:10:03.580 It's a feat to American ingenuity.

00:10:06.460 But how we're just terrible at following directions

00:10:08.540 here in the United States.

00:10:09.440 We're just too free.

00:10:10.760 It's not in our makeup to take orders about how we live.

00:10:14.900 And that hasn't been baked into the COVID response at all.

00:10:18.060 And you know what?

00:10:19.680 The country's done a pretty damn good job

00:10:21.480 over the past 18 months of taking direction,

00:10:24.540 of living their lives in a dramatically different way.

00:10:28.040 And I do think we have to have some empathy

00:10:30.160 for the fact that for many people, we're done.

00:10:33.500 We are, it's, I know we still have a virus,

00:10:36.120 but we're just done being told by the government

00:10:38.340 how we have to live, how our kids have to live.

00:10:41.280 Given back to the first point, your piece,

00:10:43.560 which I agree with fully,

00:10:44.720 which is, there's no rhyme or reason.

00:10:47.140 The masks, they're not working

00:10:48.980 on these children inside the schools.

00:10:50.680 I don't believe they're working on us either.

00:10:52.340 I don't want to wear mine anymore.

00:10:54.200 I've been vaccinated.

00:10:55.520 If I get COVID, I have very little fear

00:10:58.600 of being hospitalized or dying

00:11:00.380 because I do trust in the vaccine.

00:11:02.560 And I'm just sick and tired of being told

00:11:04.420 at every turn they're coming back.

00:11:06.120 Because you know what?

00:11:06.700 There's going to be another variant after Delta.

00:11:09.320 There's already the Mu variant.

00:11:10.460 And there's going to be another one after that.

00:11:11.760 And Fauci is going to be giving us booster shots

00:11:14.060 from now till the cows come home,

00:11:17.740 already saying the norm's going to be the three boosters.

00:11:20.120 You can't even get all of Americans to get one,

00:11:22.040 nevermind three, Fauci.

00:11:23.380 Yeah, and you raise an interesting point,

00:11:24.880 which is that ultimately,

00:11:26.060 we're going to have to work out how to live with this.

00:11:28.820 And we're not going to be a country that says,

00:11:31.580 well, I guess we had a good run until 2019.

00:11:36.700 And then we stayed inside forever.

00:11:39.300 You know, this will become endemic.

00:11:42.660 And when it does, we will have some decisions to make

00:11:46.800 in the way that we do with, dreaded word here, the flu.

00:11:50.260 And COVID is not the flu.

00:11:52.220 But at some point, it will become more like the flu.

00:11:55.660 And I think it would be an enormous mistake

00:11:58.260 to become so obsessed with it that we lose sight

00:12:01.400 of how we evaluate risk in pretty much every other area.

00:12:04.580 In no circumstances do we say as a country,

00:12:08.480 we have to get to zero.

00:12:10.180 Until we get to zero road deaths, no one can drive.

00:12:14.460 Until we get to zero flu deaths,

00:12:17.020 no one can get on an airplane.

00:12:18.640 We don't do that.

00:12:19.560 We shouldn't do that.

00:12:21.440 Now, COVID has been far more deadly,

00:12:24.140 and it has warranted more intrusive regulation.

00:12:29.040 But there will be, and maybe we've reached it already,

00:12:31.660 a tipping point here.

00:12:33.840 And I'm just a little bit alarmed

00:12:36.200 by some of the attitudes that I see

00:12:39.140 in major newspapers and on some of the cable channels,

00:12:42.420 where people are essentially treating this

00:12:46.340 as if it's a war,

00:12:49.120 and until every last enemy soldier has surrendered,

00:12:53.020 then we need to be on an emergency footing.

00:12:56.440 Well, you just can't live like that and shouldn't.

00:12:59.220 Mm-hmm.

00:13:00.420 And meanwhile, you know, we've talked about this,

00:13:02.860 but people don't trust Dr. Fauci.

00:13:05.460 They don't trust our authority.

00:13:06.900 So when he says we need a booster shot,

00:13:09.620 people's instincts are up about,

00:13:11.420 oh, here he goes again.

00:13:13.020 This guy's constantly reversing himself. 0.99

00:13:14.880 Should I stick another needle in my arm?

00:13:16.840 There's disinformation, misinformation 0.93

00:13:18.220 coming from the Biden White House

00:13:19.860 about when you need it versus Fauci

00:13:21.600 versus when you need it, if you need it at all,

00:13:23.940 whether this is a money grab by Pfizer or Moderna

00:13:26.480 or whether we really need to go back.

00:13:28.100 And at the same time, the news broke late last week

00:13:30.900 that two FDA officials reportedly resigned from the FDA,

00:13:36.020 feeling that there was too much interference

00:13:37.880 from the CDC and the administration

00:13:40.180 when it came to approval of this booster shot

00:13:43.500 and potentially even children's vaccine access.

00:13:47.340 The director of the FDA's Office of Vaccines Research

00:13:49.660 and Review and the deputy director,

00:13:52.120 Marion Gruber and Phil Krause,

00:13:54.420 resigned, saying that they're at odds

00:13:56.380 with the FDA's top vaccine official

00:13:57.960 and they're discontent with the interference

00:14:00.040 the FDA is getting.

00:14:01.060 All of that undermines public faith

00:14:04.840 in the science officials, right?

00:14:07.340 Dr. Fauci, I am science,

00:14:09.400 in them telling us what we have to do.

00:14:12.260 This is a problem with treating science

00:14:15.020 as a set of facts or as an ideology

00:14:18.300 or a given approach rather than as a means

00:14:22.140 by which to arrive at answers.

00:14:25.760 I think Americans would have been quite forgiving

00:14:29.180 if at various points throughout this pandemic,

00:14:32.860 the CDC and other institutions had said,

00:14:36.260 you know what, we operated on the best information we had

00:14:39.980 and we were wrong

00:14:42.060 and we're updating our guidelines accordingly.

00:14:44.600 But science has been wielded as a cudgel

00:14:48.460 and the people who have dissented

00:14:50.360 have been told they were anti-science

00:14:52.980 and in some circumstances,

00:14:54.440 they've actually been right.

00:14:57.660 And people have noticed that.

00:15:00.320 And I would argue this is one of the problems

00:15:02.220 with progressivism.

00:15:03.580 There is and has been since the Wilson era,

00:15:07.400 this idea on the American left

00:15:09.620 that you can just find

00:15:12.420 and then present to the public

00:15:14.440 disinterested technocrats.

00:15:17.300 And they will,

00:15:19.260 absent the vicissitudes of politics,

00:15:22.040 arrive at the correct answer

00:15:23.920 and deliver their findings

00:15:27.340 to a grateful voting public.

00:15:30.060 But you can't abolish politics ever

00:15:33.720 in any circumstance.

00:15:36.640 And forget partisan politics for a moment.

00:15:39.320 One of the biggest mistakes

00:15:40.620 that those supposedly disinterested technocrats

00:15:43.300 have made from the beginning of this

00:15:44.680 is they have been trying to work out themselves,

00:15:48.340 well, what will the public bear?

00:15:50.440 Or how can I use this information

00:15:52.680 for what they conceive as the greater good?

00:15:57.100 And so you've had mixed messaging on masks

00:16:00.940 in the first instance.

00:16:02.340 Don't go and buy them.

00:16:03.120 They don't work.

00:16:04.400 Why?

00:16:05.140 Well, because the government

00:16:06.480 didn't want to run on masks

00:16:08.160 so that health professionals couldn't get them.

00:16:10.740 I mean, that's an understandable aim.

00:16:12.800 But the science didn't change

00:16:14.560 when that didn't happen.

00:16:17.340 And then the public

00:16:18.700 was supposed to be masked itself.

00:16:22.220 And I think this just underscores

00:16:24.900 that you cannot separate out

00:16:28.460 a branch of government from politics.

00:16:31.640 And the attempt to do so

00:16:34.520 has been absolutely deleterious,

00:16:36.080 not just for Anthony Fauci

00:16:38.020 and public health officials in general.

00:16:40.880 But I wonder,

00:16:42.240 maybe in the long run,

00:16:43.900 for progressivism.

00:16:45.140 I mean, something I wrote about

00:16:46.260 a few weeks ago

00:16:47.660 was that once people start to think

00:16:50.460 that experts are wrong

00:16:52.240 or are conning them

00:16:53.400 in the late 1960s

00:16:55.060 with Vietnam,

00:16:56.080 with McNamara,

00:16:57.680 and people said,

00:16:58.800 OK, well,

00:16:59.080 maybe the best and the brightest aren't.

00:17:01.880 And I would be very nervous

00:17:04.320 if I were the CDC right about now.

00:17:06.540 I would especially avoid

00:17:08.700 getting involved in hot button issues

00:17:10.560 that aren't its job.

00:17:11.800 I saw Rochelle Walensky,

00:17:13.060 the CDC director last week,

00:17:14.640 started to wade into the gun control debate.

00:17:16.660 I would not do that right now.

00:17:18.340 She's hysterical enough.

00:17:19.780 The last thing we need her 0.99

00:17:20.520 is to talk about guns.

00:17:22.360 All right, wait,

00:17:22.680 let me pause the conversation there

00:17:24.200 because I want to pick it up

00:17:25.740 about the Rolling Stone debacle.

00:17:27.500 They're citing this fake report

00:17:30.120 on the hospitals being overrun

00:17:32.260 with patients who have OD'd

00:17:33.660 on ivermectin.

00:17:34.940 Not true.

00:17:35.760 They refuse to retract it.

00:17:37.000 We'll get into sort of treatments.

00:17:38.620 But I also want to ask you about

00:17:39.740 a column you just wrote about.

00:17:41.380 It's titled Joe Biden

00:17:42.620 Needs to Stop Talking About Beau.

00:17:44.900 And it's about how President Biden

00:17:46.040 repeatedly brings up his late son

00:17:47.620 when talking about the service members

00:17:49.180 killed in Afghanistan.

00:17:50.260 We're going to get into that next.

00:17:52.060 Welcome back, everybody,

00:17:57.420 to The Megyn Kelly Show.

00:17:58.420 Still with me, Charles C.W. Cook,

00:18:00.260 senior writer at National Review.

00:18:02.220 So let's talk about treatments

00:18:03.920 and the ivermectin debate

00:18:05.900 because this is another thing

00:18:06.960 that has divided us politically.

00:18:09.320 You even mentioned ivermectin

00:18:10.860 and a certain segment of the population

00:18:13.060 will plug its ears and say, 0.99

00:18:15.000 you're a kook. 1.00

00:18:15.840 You're a lunatic. 1.00

00:18:17.780 You know, why would you take 1.00

00:18:18.540 your horse's dewormer?

00:18:19.620 And I get that,

00:18:20.440 but it's not just a horse dewormer.

00:18:21.980 It has actually been used in humans.

00:18:24.320 And now when somebody uses it,

00:18:26.820 like Joe Rogan,

00:18:28.080 they get publicly attacked.

00:18:29.940 And what's happened in the press

00:18:32.120 is it's equated with tinfoil hat wearing.

00:18:35.620 Rolling Stone just got caught.

00:18:38.720 It just got embarrassed

00:18:39.580 because it issued a report

00:18:41.260 about this viral hospital ivermectin story

00:18:45.580 that turned out to be totally false.

00:18:48.280 They were citing a man named

00:18:50.460 Dr. Jason McEllier

00:18:52.180 who made a claim about ERs

00:18:54.740 being totally overrun 0.99

00:18:56.200 with dumbass ivermectin patients 1.00

00:18:59.140 who had taken this medication. 0.99

00:19:01.720 And let me just,

00:19:02.420 I'll play the claim 0.61

00:19:03.820 by this Dr. Jason McEllier for you.

00:19:05.600 And then I'll tell you

00:19:06.040 what Rolling Stone did.

00:19:07.300 Listen.

00:19:07.800 The ERs are so backed up

00:19:09.500 that gunshot victims

00:19:11.680 were having hard times

00:19:12.980 getting to facilities

00:19:14.180 where they could get definitive care.

00:19:15.680 All of their ambulances

00:19:17.520 are stuck at the hospital

00:19:20.100 waiting for a bed to open

00:19:21.860 so that they can take the patient in.

00:19:24.900 Okay, so not true.

00:19:26.640 Joy Reid promoted it.

00:19:28.960 Rachel Maddow went with it.

00:19:30.560 And it turns out it's not true.

00:19:32.640 The hospital with which

00:19:33.940 that guy is affiliated,

00:19:35.200 they said he hasn't worked here in months

00:19:37.300 and he hasn't treated

00:19:38.700 any ivermectin overdoses

00:19:40.280 and neither have we.

00:19:41.900 Then Rolling Stone was forced to issue

00:19:44.560 what it's calling, Charles,

00:19:46.020 an update, an update.

00:19:47.840 We used to call it a correction

00:19:48.820 or a retraction.

00:19:50.520 Now it's just an update to the story,

00:19:52.800 which I guess they think

00:19:53.640 prevents embarrassment.

00:19:55.160 Wrong, wrong, Rolling Stone,

00:19:56.880 saying we actually haven't been able

00:19:59.380 to independently verify

00:20:01.360 that there have been any such cases

00:20:03.900 at any ERs at all.

00:20:06.100 And now Dr. McEllier,

00:20:08.280 well, he's gone silent.

00:20:09.880 He has not responded to any requests

00:20:12.700 for further comment

00:20:13.960 about his obvious lie.

00:20:17.000 So your thoughts on the ivermectin,

00:20:19.940 you know, narrative that's in the press

00:20:22.400 and then just what's happened

00:20:25.360 with Rolling Stone.

00:20:26.260 I mean, Glenn Greenwald made a point

00:20:27.660 the other day of the reason

00:20:29.240 that the Rolling Stone magazine

00:20:31.080 doesn't call this a retraction

00:20:33.340 is because they understand correctly

00:20:36.060 the rest of the media

00:20:37.260 will not hold them accountable

00:20:39.360 for their erroneous reporting

00:20:42.620 because they had the right motive,

00:20:44.360 which was to attack ivermectin.

00:20:47.440 I have been baffled

00:20:49.160 right from the beginning of COVID

00:20:51.240 by the existence of national debates

00:20:54.900 over medical procedures.

00:20:58.000 The efficacy or lack thereof

00:21:01.720 of ivermectin or hydroxychloroquine,

00:21:06.040 hydroxychloroquine,

00:21:07.180 hydroxychloroquine, thank you,

00:21:10.040 is contingent upon

00:21:12.740 external objective medical reality.

00:21:17.540 It is contingent upon

00:21:19.880 circumstances and biological

00:21:24.360 facts that can be examined

00:21:28.200 and evaluated by medical professionals.

00:21:33.000 It's not contingent upon

00:21:34.920 whether Donald Trump likes it or not.

00:21:37.020 It's not contingent upon

00:21:38.360 whether Republican voters

00:21:39.780 like it or not.

00:21:41.680 This is not the sort of thing

00:21:43.680 we should have a national debate

00:21:45.520 or a vote on.

00:21:48.100 You know, if it were the case

00:21:49.320 that people around the country

00:21:51.720 were drinking Roundup,

00:21:53.800 I mean, yeah, sure.

00:21:54.700 But it seems clear

00:21:56.760 that both of these drugs

00:21:59.140 do sometimes help.

00:22:00.940 I mean, actually, as it happens,

00:22:02.960 I haven't said or written a word

00:22:04.700 about this ivermectin drug,

00:22:06.640 but I actually do know somebody

00:22:07.900 who was prescribed it

00:22:10.840 when he got COVID a month ago

00:22:12.220 and said it helped marginally.

00:22:16.240 Okay, I'm sure that's true.

00:22:18.340 I'm sure that's true for others

00:22:19.600 that it won't.

00:22:20.640 But it's a great illustration

00:22:22.020 of how we have federalized

00:22:23.580 every question that people feel

00:22:25.940 a need to have a view on this

00:22:28.520 as good or bad.

00:22:30.660 And I think it probably intersects

00:22:32.060 slightly with what we were

00:22:32.860 talking about earlier,

00:22:34.340 which is the feeling

00:22:37.720 that if anything helps COVID,

00:22:40.360 then it's somehow competing

00:22:41.840 with the vaccine,

00:22:42.880 which just isn't true.

00:22:44.200 On the Rolling Stones story,

00:22:46.180 I mean, you can absolutely see

00:22:47.200 why this went viral.

00:22:48.260 This was almost built by a robot

00:22:51.060 to appeal to a certain

00:22:52.720 sort of American.

00:22:54.240 It's no surprise that Rachel Maddow

00:22:56.440 and Joy Reid picked this up.

00:22:58.640 This is what MSNBC viewers

00:23:01.300 think conservatives are.

00:23:03.560 It's what they think

00:23:04.240 Oklahomans are.

00:23:05.840 And it's probably not an accident

00:23:07.860 that the patients

00:23:09.400 that were supposedly being hurt

00:23:11.080 by this were gunshot victims.

00:23:12.800 Exactly.

00:23:13.940 Republicans in Oklahoma 0.97

00:23:15.060 must all be gun-wielding kooks. 0.90

00:23:19.000 But it does show you

00:23:21.340 something very interesting

00:23:22.300 about the press,

00:23:23.080 and that is almost

00:23:23.900 not its willingness to lie,

00:23:29.040 although it does,

00:23:30.620 but its feeling that

00:23:32.420 if it lies or exaggerates

00:23:34.740 or misleads

00:23:36.160 in pursuit of what it considers

00:23:39.000 to be a broader truth,

00:23:40.540 that that is fine.

00:23:42.200 No one, no one,

00:23:43.680 not Joy Reid,

00:23:44.340 not Rachel Maddow,

00:23:45.180 not The Hill,

00:23:45.880 not The Washington Post,

00:23:47.140 but no one seems

00:23:49.140 to have picked up

00:23:49.880 the phone here

00:23:50.700 and asked.

00:23:53.320 Because the moment

00:23:54.500 somebody did,

00:23:56.060 the story fell apart

00:23:57.220 and fell apart

00:23:58.620 in deeply embarrassing fashion.

00:24:00.440 Well, actually,

00:24:01.100 he doesn't work here anymore.

00:24:02.560 He hasn't worked here

00:24:03.220 for months,

00:24:03.660 and it's not true.

00:24:04.500 About as strong a repudiation

00:24:06.480 of the story

00:24:07.120 as you can get.

00:24:09.140 And I would just reiterate,

00:24:10.740 it is really, really sad

00:24:12.380 that this whole COVID debate

00:24:13.520 has become squashed

00:24:14.840 into our partisan fights.

00:24:16.520 There are lots of things

00:24:17.520 we should fight over.

00:24:18.480 Tons of things.

00:24:19.100 I hate the idea

00:24:19.800 that we shouldn't have politics,

00:24:21.580 that we shouldn't be partisan.

00:24:22.720 Yeah, politics, partisanship,

00:24:24.220 they're part of the American character.

00:24:25.500 They always have been.

00:24:26.100 Free countries have people

00:24:27.680 who argue strongly over politics.

00:24:29.620 But sensible countries

00:24:30.560 don't extend that

00:24:31.420 to viruses and treatments.

00:24:34.400 Yeah, no,

00:24:35.180 it's funny to see the media change

00:24:37.060 on what happened

00:24:37.760 to the complete aversion

00:24:39.920 to any disinformation

00:24:41.760 on COVID, right?

00:24:43.440 Like, that would be punished

00:24:44.600 by Twitter, by Facebook.

00:24:46.540 Meanwhile, Rachel Maddow's tweet

00:24:48.420 citing this doctor

00:24:50.460 and this alleged story

00:24:51.820 is still up.

00:24:52.940 She hasn't taken it down.

00:24:54.060 Where's the Twitter mob for her? 1.00

00:24:55.900 No one cares.

00:24:57.260 Suddenly the obsession

00:24:58.220 with disinformation

00:24:59.680 on this virus

00:25:00.780 on any social media

00:25:02.200 evaporates, right?

00:25:03.480 Because if it's in the one direction

00:25:04.920 against hydroxychloroquine,

00:25:07.720 against ivermectin,

00:25:08.860 you know,

00:25:09.240 anything that's pro-vaccine

00:25:11.060 and mandates,

00:25:12.300 that'll be allowed.

00:25:13.220 It's just if you go the other way,

00:25:14.540 you'll be punished.

00:25:15.740 Absolutely.

00:25:16.620 And I would say,

00:25:17.900 cynically,

00:25:18.400 I suspect a lot of the people

00:25:19.880 who shared this story

00:25:20.820 and now know it's false

00:25:21.840 will keep the stories up

00:25:23.160 because it's already gone viral.

00:25:25.480 It helps whatever it is

00:25:27.460 that they're trying to achieve here

00:25:29.280 to leave it there.

00:25:32.040 It is worth saying,

00:25:33.260 just as a matter of fact,

00:25:34.600 that irrespective

00:25:35.920 of its broad efficacy,

00:25:38.060 it's not true

00:25:39.620 that people are randomly

00:25:41.140 ingesting horse dewormer.

00:25:43.700 There aren't medical benefits

00:25:45.000 to this drug.

00:25:46.000 I mean,

00:25:46.200 it's been under the auspices

00:25:47.560 of the FDA

00:25:48.220 since the 1980s.

00:25:50.280 Whether it is

00:25:51.600 the best choice for COVID

00:25:53.620 is beyond my expertise.

00:25:57.240 But I've been equally irritated

00:25:59.740 by the way this has been talked about. 1.00

00:26:02.160 Oh, these idiots 1.00

00:26:02.820 taking horse dewormer. 1.00

00:26:04.320 People aren't actually

00:26:05.320 that irrational.

00:26:06.320 You know,

00:26:08.020 they don't just jump

00:26:09.340 all over nonsense

00:26:11.160 and damage themselves 0.58

00:26:12.700 with it en masse.

00:26:14.940 And that's just simply

00:26:16.660 not what has happened now.

00:26:18.340 It's funny because I was,

00:26:19.580 you know,

00:26:19.740 we have a new puppy

00:26:20.540 and we have a two-year-old dog

00:26:21.820 and we have a new puppy

00:26:22.580 and I've been sort of sorting out

00:26:24.420 the heartworm medication

00:26:25.520 and the flea medication,

00:26:26.860 the different one for each dog

00:26:28.060 and blah, blah, blah.

00:26:29.000 And one of them is ivermectin.

00:26:31.780 And I was like,

00:26:32.660 people would think

00:26:33.980 I am one of those people

00:26:34.900 who if I get COVID,

00:26:35.720 I'm just going to pop in

00:26:36.820 one of my dog's dewormer pills,

00:26:38.740 which I am not.

00:26:40.460 I can't actually remember

00:26:41.440 whether it was the dewormer

00:26:42.500 or the flea and tick prevention,

00:26:43.920 whatever.

00:26:44.260 The point is,

00:26:44.780 there was ivermectin

00:26:45.660 sitting there on my kitchen counter.

00:26:47.080 The point is,

00:26:47.580 if you want ivermectin

00:26:48.880 because you have COVID,

00:26:50.260 just call up your doctor.

00:26:51.620 Just go to the health clinic

00:26:52.840 down the road

00:26:53.480 and ask them about ivermectin.

00:26:55.820 And, you know,

00:26:56.620 if you try hard enough,

00:26:57.580 you'll find a doctor

00:26:58.220 who'd be open-minded

00:26:58.980 to that possibility.

00:27:00.680 There are plenty of them out there.

00:27:01.700 But you definitely should not

00:27:02.900 take your animal's medication

00:27:04.320 no matter what it is.

00:27:06.340 I think that's pretty clear.

00:27:08.120 But yeah, you're right.

00:27:08.960 That story is tailor-made

00:27:09.920 for a left-leaning press

00:27:11.320 and left-leaning pundits

00:27:12.800 who think Republicans are rubes. 1.00

00:27:14.800 They're stupid. 1.00

00:27:15.640 They're going to do things like this 1.00

00:27:17.040 with impunity

00:27:17.600 while they're shooting each other.

00:27:19.080 And really, frankly,

00:27:19.880 the end of that story

00:27:20.640 is they don't really care.

00:27:21.500 They don't actually care

00:27:22.180 what happens to Republicans

00:27:23.060 and ERs in Oklahoma.

00:27:24.720 They're just doing it

00:27:25.740 to make a point.

00:27:27.000 OK, let's shift gears

00:27:27.980 and talk about Afghanistan

00:27:29.280 and what's happening

00:27:31.300 with the president.

00:27:32.000 I listen to you

00:27:32.900 because, you know,

00:27:33.380 I love the podcast,

00:27:34.500 the editors that you're on

00:27:35.460 with Rich Lowry

00:27:36.120 and everybody, MBD.

00:27:38.720 And you, I think,

00:27:40.400 as far as I know,

00:27:41.300 you were one of the first,

00:27:42.580 if not the first,

00:27:43.320 to make the point

00:27:43.900 about Joe Biden

00:27:44.620 needs to stop talking about Beau.

00:27:46.640 And I thought

00:27:47.120 that's a brave thing to say. 0.77

00:27:48.720 He'll probably get hit for that

00:27:49.800 because you're supposed to,

00:27:51.820 that's supposed to be

00:27:52.560 an inviolate subject

00:27:53.560 when it comes to the president

00:27:54.780 and his son.

00:27:55.480 But soon thereafter,

00:27:57.120 others started to make

00:27:57.900 the same point.

00:27:58.640 There was some blowback.

00:27:59.740 The New York Times

00:28:00.280 already caved.

00:28:01.120 They came out with a headline

00:28:02.100 originally that read Biden

00:28:04.160 still grieving his son

00:28:05.940 finds that not everyone

00:28:07.500 wants to hear about it.

00:28:08.820 Then tons of backlash

00:28:10.020 on Twitter and so on.

00:28:11.120 And they changed their headline

00:28:12.020 to in invoking Beau,

00:28:14.800 Biden broaches a lost,

00:28:16.600 loss that has guided

00:28:17.600 his presidency.

00:28:18.940 But they had it right

00:28:20.260 the first time.

00:28:21.620 Not everyone does want

00:28:22.680 to hear about Beau

00:28:23.620 in this context.

00:28:25.480 And can you explain

00:28:26.320 for the audience

00:28:26.860 how he keeps bringing it up

00:28:29.220 and how I saw in your,

00:28:30.380 an article you recently dropped,

00:28:31.740 it's very clearly intentional

00:28:34.000 and strategic

00:28:35.560 by the administration.

00:28:38.480 Well, I think it is strategic.

00:28:40.920 I also think that even

00:28:42.160 if it's not,

00:28:43.160 it's inappropriate

00:28:43.940 and that that's the key point.

00:28:46.540 Beau Biden's death

00:28:48.000 was of course a tragedy.

00:28:49.960 And there is no one

00:28:52.700 in our politics

00:28:53.800 who would disagree with that.

00:28:55.480 No parent should have

00:28:57.520 to bury their child.

00:28:59.600 That is not a license

00:29:01.280 to use it every time

00:29:04.160 you are attacked.

00:29:07.980 And it's not an invitation

00:29:09.840 to share your grief

00:29:12.800 in all circumstances.

00:29:15.960 And Joe Biden

00:29:16.480 is not just a guy.

00:29:17.880 He's the president

00:29:18.760 of the United States.

00:29:19.900 And as such,

00:29:20.540 he's the commander-in-chief.

00:29:22.560 One of the criticisms

00:29:23.780 that has been made

00:29:25.060 has come from the parents

00:29:26.840 of the Marines

00:29:28.800 who were killed

00:29:29.560 in Afghanistan.

00:29:31.860 You could say

00:29:32.840 that's Joe Biden's fault

00:29:34.680 or you could say

00:29:35.380 that he was commander-in-chief

00:29:36.620 when it happened.

00:29:37.220 But you cannot dispute

00:29:38.480 that they were killed

00:29:39.440 under Joe Biden's command.

00:29:41.020 And as such,

00:29:43.980 for them to be,

00:29:45.380 you know,

00:29:45.600 people across

00:29:46.180 the political spectrum

00:29:47.180 to be complaining

00:29:48.360 that when they got

00:29:49.700 a few moments

00:29:50.420 with the president

00:29:51.100 and wanted to talk

00:29:51.960 about their children

00:29:52.860 that he instead

00:29:54.380 spoke about his own son

00:29:56.000 is a problem.

00:29:57.760 It's a problem

00:29:58.500 for a number of reasons.

00:29:59.900 Firstly,

00:30:00.600 that's not what

00:30:01.220 you're supposed to do

00:30:02.020 generally

00:30:02.520 when someone is

00:30:03.460 consumed by grief.

00:30:04.780 You're supposed to listen

00:30:05.560 and absorb as much

00:30:06.420 of their pain as possible.

00:30:07.440 You're not supposed to say,

00:30:08.620 hey, well,

00:30:08.860 actually what you're saying

00:30:09.580 reminds me of me.

00:30:11.480 You're especially

00:30:12.260 not supposed to do that

00:30:13.680 when you're the president

00:30:14.420 of the United States,

00:30:15.880 when you're the commander-in-chief

00:30:17.380 and when they might

00:30:18.260 well be angry with you.

00:30:19.960 It's a very difficult position

00:30:21.100 to be in.

00:30:21.660 It's not one I would want to be in.

00:30:22.820 I don't want to be president.

00:30:24.060 But if you are president,

00:30:25.040 that's part of the job.

00:30:26.900 It's also a problem

00:30:27.940 because although

00:30:28.860 Beau Biden's death

00:30:30.060 was a tragedy,

00:30:31.760 Beau Biden died of cancer

00:30:33.260 in a hospital in Virginia.

00:30:35.420 He did not die

00:30:37.300 in the field.

00:30:38.520 He did die

00:30:40.500 and he was a soldier,

00:30:41.620 but he didn't die

00:30:42.500 while a soldier.

00:30:43.880 He didn't die

00:30:44.720 of being a soldier.

00:30:45.980 He was not killed

00:30:46.920 in an instant

00:30:47.860 in a foreign land.

00:30:49.540 He died over

00:30:50.540 a matter of months

00:30:51.580 here in the United States

00:30:53.100 of a medical condition.

00:30:55.080 And for Joe Biden

00:30:56.620 to say every time

00:30:57.860 the topic comes up,

00:30:59.660 well, look,

00:31:00.560 I understand this

00:31:01.420 as well as anyone

00:31:02.240 because I too

00:31:03.760 have been through tragedy,

00:31:05.620 really is a non-sequitur.

00:31:06.880 I mean, there are

00:31:07.540 a lot of people

00:31:08.580 in the world

00:31:09.600 who have been through tragedy,

00:31:10.960 who've lost somebody

00:31:11.780 they loved a great deal.

00:31:13.580 Presumably Joe Biden

00:31:14.620 knows how they feel,

00:31:16.200 but that's not the same thing

00:31:17.460 as being a gold star parent

00:31:18.960 and it's not the same thing

00:31:20.360 as responding

00:31:22.320 to criticisms

00:31:23.080 of foreign policy.

00:31:24.860 And I thought the moment

00:31:26.080 when this tipped over

00:31:27.280 from inappropriate habit

00:31:29.680 into strategic choice

00:31:32.260 was when Jen Psaki

00:31:34.120 said at the same

00:31:35.580 press conference

00:31:36.380 a couple of weeks ago

00:31:37.880 that Joe Biden

00:31:39.480 knows how the parents feel

00:31:40.800 because he himself

00:31:41.740 had a son who died.

00:31:43.420 It is one thing

00:31:44.440 for the person affected

00:31:45.640 to say that.

00:31:46.960 It's another

00:31:47.460 for his press secretary

00:31:48.800 to begin throwing it

00:31:50.340 back at reporters.

00:31:52.040 And, you know,

00:31:52.760 I pointed out

00:31:53.480 in the piece

00:31:54.400 there are

00:31:56.100 many circumstances

00:31:57.400 in American history

00:31:58.400 in which presidents

00:31:59.480 have grieved deeply

00:32:00.380 over children

00:32:01.200 but knew that

00:32:02.260 it would have been

00:32:02.820 the wrong time

00:32:03.580 and place

00:32:04.000 for them to bring it up.

00:32:04.960 Abraham Lincoln

00:32:05.560 did not mention

00:32:07.700 his son Willie

00:32:08.740 at Gettysburg.

00:32:11.100 George Washington

00:32:11.920 did not mention

00:32:13.780 the premature death

00:32:15.600 of his adopted daughter

00:32:17.080 during the Revolutionary War.

00:32:19.540 Franklin Roosevelt

00:32:20.260 did not say

00:32:21.280 after D-Day

00:32:22.100 that he knew

00:32:22.880 how the families

00:32:23.880 who lost their sons felt

00:32:25.880 because his son

00:32:26.960 Franklin Jr.,

00:32:27.820 the first Franklin Jr.,

00:32:29.580 died

00:32:30.140 as a boy.

00:32:31.840 There are times

00:32:32.740 for that

00:32:33.260 and Biden

00:32:33.980 has misjudged them.

00:32:37.220 You're so right

00:32:38.400 and you make

00:32:38.900 such a good point

00:32:39.680 about how

00:32:40.380 the

00:32:41.260 it's almost

00:32:42.900 it feels like

00:32:44.200 an intentional

00:32:45.340 dodge or distraction

00:32:46.340 because

00:32:46.800 he's the commander

00:32:48.340 in chief.

00:32:49.600 It's one thing

00:32:50.340 to be standing there

00:32:51.420 with another

00:32:52.120 random person

00:32:53.620 who's lost a child

00:32:54.720 and for him to say

00:32:55.940 I lost my child

00:32:57.100 and two parents

00:32:58.300 randomly bonding

00:32:59.660 over that kind

00:33:00.460 of loss.

00:33:00.960 It's another

00:33:01.520 when you're

00:33:02.500 the commander

00:33:02.980 in chief

00:33:03.460 and the gold star

00:33:04.440 families are there

00:33:05.360 they're talking

00:33:06.520 to you

00:33:07.140 because their

00:33:08.300 children are now

00:33:09.440 within the past

00:33:10.360 few days

00:33:10.820 in a casket

00:33:11.700 after your orders

00:33:13.740 endangered them

00:33:14.900 and ultimately

00:33:15.480 led to the loss

00:33:16.900 of life.

00:33:17.360 that's a moment

00:33:18.540 for accountability

00:33:19.540 responsibility

00:33:20.960 it's not

00:33:22.000 right

00:33:22.440 it's not about

00:33:23.260 you at all

00:33:24.800 in your parental

00:33:26.260 role

00:33:26.720 or anything

00:33:27.880 that would make

00:33:28.500 the parents job

00:33:29.380 is not to feel

00:33:29.860 empathy

00:33:30.240 for you

00:33:31.060 in that moment.

00:33:32.500 I think that's

00:33:33.220 exactly right

00:33:34.160 and it's certainly

00:33:35.220 not a defense

00:33:36.200 of foreign policy.

00:33:38.640 I mean

00:33:38.820 we can obviously

00:33:40.240 disagree all day

00:33:41.420 about

00:33:41.860 Afghanistan

00:33:43.340 Iraq

00:33:44.820 any other

00:33:45.640 foreign policy

00:33:46.320 decision

00:33:46.840 but if you

00:33:48.060 look back

00:33:48.860 to the

00:33:50.420 2000s

00:33:52.040 George W. Bush

00:33:53.300 was pretty good

00:33:54.080 at standing there

00:33:54.880 and taking it

00:33:55.520 on the chin

00:33:56.140 when parents

00:33:58.020 said to him 0.97

00:33:58.780 you're a murderer 1.00

00:33:59.600 and you killed 1.00

00:34:00.120 my child 0.98

00:34:00.720 and that actually

00:34:02.040 is the right course.

00:34:03.800 I mean

00:34:03.900 I don't envy

00:34:04.960 the man

00:34:05.760 and that's also

00:34:06.780 not a defense

00:34:07.400 of his foreign

00:34:08.020 policy

00:34:08.460 that can be

00:34:09.040 evaluated

00:34:09.580 outside of

00:34:10.720 his empathy

00:34:12.460 or lack thereof

00:34:13.900 but the job

00:34:15.320 is to take

00:34:16.560 it.

00:34:18.460 The buck

00:34:19.260 does stop

00:34:20.000 there too

00:34:21.180 and I was

00:34:22.260 struck

00:34:22.760 by

00:34:23.620 the

00:34:25.020 more soft

00:34:26.600 spoken

00:34:27.220 among

00:34:28.020 the parents

00:34:29.520 and members

00:34:30.120 of

00:34:30.800 the families

00:34:32.020 of the slain

00:34:32.780 who said

00:34:34.520 it really

00:34:35.520 caught us

00:34:36.180 off guard

00:34:36.700 it really

00:34:37.680 struck us

00:34:39.040 as being

00:34:39.520 inappropriate.

00:34:40.440 There are of course

00:34:41.140 people who are

00:34:41.820 very angry

00:34:42.320 with the president

00:34:42.980 you have to temper

00:34:44.000 that a little bit

00:34:44.800 it's understandable

00:34:45.740 grieving people

00:34:46.620 often behave in

00:34:48.360 ways that

00:34:48.860 once they've come

00:34:50.040 out the other

00:34:50.420 side

00:34:50.720 they wouldn't

00:34:51.380 and there are

00:34:52.060 people who

00:34:52.460 really loathe

00:34:53.120 Joe Biden

00:34:53.620 we live in a

00:34:54.500 politically charged

00:34:55.280 age

00:34:55.680 but not everyone

00:34:56.960 who criticized

00:34:57.540 him for this

00:34:58.340 was in those

00:35:00.800 categories

00:35:01.320 and I

00:35:03.280 hope

00:35:04.140 that he

00:35:04.880 realizes

00:35:05.560 now

00:35:06.240 that that's

00:35:07.040 not an

00:35:07.780 appropriate

00:35:08.240 way to

00:35:09.240 respond

00:35:09.760 to grief

00:35:10.760 that

00:35:11.060 occurred

00:35:11.840 under

00:35:12.200 his

00:35:12.620 control

00:35:13.900 well it's

00:35:14.740 between that

00:35:15.300 and looking

00:35:15.960 at his

00:35:16.280 watch

00:35:16.560 several times

00:35:17.240 during the

00:35:17.660 Dover

00:35:17.980 ceremony

00:35:18.820 which he

00:35:19.220 clearly

00:35:19.480 did

00:35:19.780 and I

00:35:20.120 understand

00:35:20.600 he wears

00:35:21.080 rosary beads

00:35:21.740 there sometimes

00:35:22.420 but if you

00:35:22.880 look at that

00:35:23.280 tape

00:35:23.600 even his

00:35:24.700 normal

00:35:25.020 liberal

00:35:25.340 defenders

00:35:25.800 like Snopes

00:35:26.440 is saying

00:35:26.840 the guy

00:35:27.260 was looking

00:35:27.520 at his

00:35:27.740 watch

00:35:28.000 he looked

00:35:28.320 at his

00:35:28.520 watch

00:35:28.720 repeatedly

00:35:29.180 as dead

00:35:30.040 bodies

00:35:30.320 were going

00:35:30.660 by

00:35:30.880 I mean

00:35:31.120 it was

00:35:31.280 just

00:35:31.400 there's

00:35:31.700 an

00:35:31.820 insensitivity

00:35:32.540 there

00:35:32.880 that the

00:35:33.820 media

00:35:34.060 would have

00:35:34.440 been

00:35:34.700 obsessed

00:35:35.500 with

00:35:36.020 had it

00:35:36.760 been

00:35:36.940 Donald

00:35:37.260 Trump

00:35:39.760 excuse

00:35:40.200 given that

00:35:41.240 it's a

00:35:41.660 president

00:35:42.160 with a

00:35:42.600 D

00:35:43.020 after his

00:35:43.860 name

00:35:44.120 Charles

00:35:44.820 it's

00:35:45.180 always

00:35:45.460 a

00:35:45.640 pleasure

00:35:45.900 thank

00:35:46.220 you

00:35:46.340 so

00:35:46.500 much

00:35:46.800 thank

00:35:47.300 you

00:35:47.380 so

00:35:47.560 much

00:35:47.720 for

00:35:47.820 having

00:35:48.000 me

00:35:48.200 good luck

00:35:48.700 all right

00:35:49.040 thank you

00:35:49.600 up next

00:35:50.120 we're going

00:35:50.320 to be

00:35:50.460 joined by

00:35:51.000 Fox

00:35:51.520 Nation

00:35:51.860 journalist

00:35:52.380 Laura

00:35:52.960 Logan

00:35:53.280 she's

00:35:53.700 with Fox

00:35:54.040 News

00:35:54.260 now

00:35:54.440 she does

00:35:54.720 reports

00:35:55.020 for Fox

00:35:55.380 Nation

00:35:55.660 and she

00:35:56.100 lived

00:35:56.420 and reported

00:35:56.960 from

00:35:58.000 Afghanistan

00:35:58.500 for years

00:35:59.220 she's been

00:35:59.600 following the

00:36:00.020 outbreak

00:36:00.320 of protests

00:36:01.040 across the

00:36:02.060 country

00:36:02.440 which are

00:36:03.260 painting a

00:36:03.960 very different

00:36:04.560 narrative

00:36:04.960 about the

00:36:05.760 Taliban 0.97

00:36:06.100 our new

00:36:06.560 buddy

00:36:06.860 then we've

00:36:07.800 been told

00:36:08.200 she's fired 1.00

00:36:08.860 up and she's

00:36:09.340 here next

00:36:09.760 don't go

00:36:10.600 away

00:36:10.880 and welcome

00:36:19.360 back everybody

00:36:19.880 to the

00:36:20.200 Megan Kelly

00:36:20.640 show

00:36:21.040 joining me

00:36:21.440 now

00:36:21.780 Laura

00:36:22.420 Logan

00:36:22.760 she's a

00:36:23.360 journalist

00:36:23.640 and host

00:36:24.260 of Fox

00:36:24.880 Nations

00:36:25.340 Laura

00:36:26.240 Logan

00:36:26.640 has

00:36:27.060 no

00:36:27.540 agenda

00:36:27.940 I love

00:36:28.440 that

00:36:28.700 that's

00:36:29.060 like

00:36:29.240 the

00:36:29.700 greatest

00:36:29.940 I

00:36:30.260 should

00:36:30.420 have

00:36:30.520 chosen

00:36:30.820 that

00:36:31.020 title

00:36:31.260 I

00:36:31.400 wish

00:36:31.540 I

00:36:31.640 had

00:36:31.780 that

00:36:31.900 for

00:36:32.040 my

00:36:32.180 show

00:36:32.360 too

00:36:32.560 Laura

00:36:33.560 are you

00:36:33.740 with

00:36:33.920 me

00:36:34.420 I'm

00:36:34.840 with

00:36:35.020 you

00:36:35.160 Megan

00:36:35.380 thank

00:36:35.720 you

00:36:36.020 hi

00:36:36.620 it's

00:36:36.800 wonderful

00:36:37.060 to see

00:36:37.480 you

00:36:37.640 okay

00:36:37.920 let's

00:36:38.500 dive

00:36:38.740 right

00:36:38.920 in

00:36:39.060 and

00:36:39.180 talk

00:36:39.340 about

00:36:39.500 what's

00:36:39.700 happening

00:36:40.020 in

00:36:40.500 Afghanistan

00:36:41.200 now

00:36:41.720 I saw

00:36:43.100 you

00:36:43.340 tweeting

00:36:43.740 about

00:36:44.340 the

00:36:44.620 secretary

00:36:44.940 general

00:36:45.280 of

00:36:45.460 the

00:36:45.600 UN

00:36:45.860 talking

00:36:46.500 about

00:36:46.860 engaging

00:36:47.520 with

00:36:47.980 the

00:36:48.200 Taliban 0.97

00:36:48.600 on

00:36:49.040 a

00:36:49.220 humanitarian

00:36:50.000 basis

00:36:51.680 dovetails

00:36:52.560 nicely

00:36:52.880 with a

00:36:53.220 Wall Street

00:36:53.560 Journal

00:36:54.000 editorial

00:36:54.700 yesterday

00:36:55.240 that

00:36:55.680 that is

00:36:56.100 entitled

00:36:56.460 Our

00:36:56.960 Friends

00:36:57.560 the

00:36:57.860 Taliban 0.97

00:36:58.260 and

00:36:59.280 you

00:36:59.660 and

00:37:00.020 the

00:37:00.360 journal

00:37:00.640 and

00:37:00.920 others

00:37:01.280 are

00:37:01.440 trying

00:37:01.820 to put

00:37:02.320 the

00:37:02.700 lie

00:37:03.720 to

00:37:04.640 this

00:37:05.040 notion

00:37:05.500 that

00:37:06.000 somehow

00:37:06.780 just because

00:37:07.360 Biden

00:37:07.800 pulled the

00:37:08.220 troops out

00:37:08.720 we now

00:37:09.360 need to

00:37:09.660 pretend

00:37:10.040 that this

00:37:10.840 is a

00:37:11.140 reasonable

00:37:11.520 group

00:37:11.940 that's

00:37:12.200 going to

00:37:12.380 treat

00:37:12.580 women 1.00

00:37:12.880 well

00:37:13.280 that we

00:37:13.700 can

00:37:13.840 engage

00:37:14.180 with

00:37:14.360 on a

00:37:14.620 humanitarian

00:37:15.240 basis

00:37:16.000 and that

00:37:16.740 somehow

00:37:17.120 is willing

00:37:17.640 to turn

00:37:18.060 over

00:37:18.380 a new

00:37:19.280 leaf

00:37:19.640 your

00:37:19.920 thoughts

00:37:20.180 on it

00:37:20.420 well

00:37:20.780 my

00:37:20.940 first

00:37:21.260 thought

00:37:21.560 is that

00:37:21.940 there

00:37:22.120 is a

00:37:22.420 democratically

00:37:23.080 elected

00:37:23.720 government

00:37:24.700 of

00:37:25.160 Afghanistan

00:37:25.660 that is

00:37:26.160 still

00:37:26.420 in the

00:37:26.780 country

00:37:27.140 and

00:37:27.960 the

00:37:28.280 United

00:37:28.560 States

00:37:28.980 has been

00:37:29.420 complicit

00:37:30.060 in telling

00:37:30.980 one of

00:37:31.380 the most

00:37:31.700 egregious

00:37:32.200 lies of

00:37:32.820 all

00:37:33.120 about

00:37:33.440 this

00:37:33.660 whole

00:37:33.880 situation

00:37:34.500 which is

00:37:35.320 to write

00:37:35.760 these

00:37:36.020 people

00:37:36.320 off the

00:37:36.640 face

00:37:36.880 of the

00:37:37.160 earth

00:37:37.440 to try

00:37:38.080 and write

00:37:38.440 them out

00:37:38.780 of history

00:37:39.220 as if

00:37:39.500 they don't

00:37:39.820 exist

00:37:40.300 I mean

00:37:40.960 Amrl Al-Sar

00:37:41.660 was the

00:37:42.040 vice

00:37:42.300 president

00:37:42.740 of

00:37:43.360 Afghanistan

00:37:43.880 he is

00:37:44.640 now the

00:37:44.980 acting

00:37:45.360 president

00:37:45.800 under the

00:37:46.280 Afghan

00:37:46.560 constitution

00:37:47.120 and instead

00:37:48.300 of recognizing

00:37:49.140 that

00:37:49.640 which by

00:37:50.080 the way

00:37:50.420 we've

00:37:51.020 recognized

00:37:51.380 for the

00:37:51.780 past

00:37:51.980 20

00:37:52.400 years

00:37:52.900 we are

00:37:53.820 now

00:37:54.180 rushing

00:37:54.900 and falling

00:37:55.560 over

00:37:55.860 ourselves

00:37:56.300 to

00:37:56.820 legitimize

00:37:57.700 and

00:37:57.940 recognize

00:37:58.760 a

00:37:59.020 government

00:37:59.340 of 0.98

00:37:59.720 terrorists 0.73

00:38:00.260 who are

00:38:01.000 creating

00:38:01.440 a terrorist

00:38:01.960 super state

00:38:02.800 in Afghanistan

00:38:03.800 right on the

00:38:04.460 borders with

00:38:04.860 Iran and

00:38:05.400 Pakistan

00:38:05.800 who are

00:38:06.500 the two

00:38:06.760 greatest

00:38:07.160 sponsors

00:38:07.760 state

00:38:08.180 sponsors

00:38:08.660 of terror

00:38:09.620 in the

00:38:10.300 world

00:38:10.740 let me

00:38:12.320 pause you

00:38:12.680 for one

00:38:14.340 second

00:38:14.520 because I

00:38:14.780 think your

00:38:15.060 mic fell

00:38:15.500 because you

00:38:16.060 sounded

00:38:16.720 like

00:38:16.960 slightly

00:38:17.420 scratchy

00:38:18.200 just

00:38:18.440 reiterate

00:38:18.740 the

00:38:18.940 point

00:38:19.080 you

00:38:19.180 were

00:38:19.260 just

00:38:19.400 making

00:38:19.620 just

00:38:19.820 in case

00:38:20.020 people

00:38:20.280 weren't

00:38:20.480 following

00:38:20.760 well

00:38:21.320 so the

00:38:22.420 point is

00:38:22.840 that there

00:38:23.280 is actually

00:38:23.860 a democratically

00:38:24.500 elected

00:38:24.880 government

00:38:25.880 of Afghanistan

00:38:26.640 that is still

00:38:27.700 functioning and

00:38:28.400 that is still

00:38:28.920 there and

00:38:29.740 it is

00:38:30.180 it's in the

00:38:31.160 Panjia Valley

00:38:31.820 and in other

00:38:32.460 places and

00:38:33.480 they're fighting

00:38:34.060 for freedom

00:38:34.860 so the

00:38:35.720 Biden

00:38:35.980 administration

00:38:36.380 is complicit

00:38:37.240 in telling

00:38:37.660 one of the

00:38:38.100 greatest lies

00:38:38.980 of this

00:38:39.640 entire

00:38:40.000 situation

00:38:40.600 which is to

00:38:41.460 try and

00:38:41.860 write these

00:38:42.400 people out 0.96

00:38:43.040 of existence

00:38:43.540 to erase

00:38:44.300 them from

00:38:45.060 history and 0.93

00:38:45.820 erase them

00:38:46.320 from reality

00:38:47.040 you know

00:38:47.680 this country

00:38:48.300 has a choice

00:38:48.960 to make

00:38:49.480 you would

00:38:50.040 have thought

00:38:50.600 that this

00:38:51.300 wasn't even

00:38:51.940 a choice

00:38:52.520 but to

00:38:53.140 every American

00:38:53.960 and to

00:38:54.380 every person

00:38:55.040 in the

00:38:55.680 free world

00:38:56.260 who believes

00:38:57.160 in you know

00:38:58.060 ruling by

00:38:58.740 consensus

00:38:59.360 the choice

00:39:00.340 that we have

00:39:00.800 to make

00:39:01.280 is do we

00:39:02.180 stand with

00:39:03.020 terrorists

00:39:03.600 who use

00:39:04.460 fear as

00:39:05.500 their only

00:39:06.000 form of

00:39:06.540 governing

00:39:06.840 the way the

00:39:07.480 UN has

00:39:08.000 now done

00:39:08.560 right

00:39:08.880 they have

00:39:09.440 stood with

00:39:09.980 the Taliban

00:39:10.460 with the

00:39:11.240 terrorists

00:39:11.640 of the 0.78

00:39:12.560 Taliban 0.97

00:39:12.940 and Al-Qaeda

00:39:13.780 and the

00:39:14.440 Haqqani 0.99

00:39:14.760 network

00:39:15.080 and all

00:39:15.460 of the

00:39:15.700 others

00:39:16.060 who are

00:39:16.600 part of

00:39:16.980 this

00:39:17.160 government

00:39:17.540 and we

00:39:18.440 have said

00:39:18.920 that we

00:39:19.440 are giving

00:39:19.880 them humanitarian

00:39:20.520 assistance

00:39:21.120 which is

00:39:21.560 we are

00:39:22.200 legitimizing

00:39:22.940 them and

00:39:23.460 recognizing

00:39:24.200 them as

00:39:24.980 a legitimate

00:39:25.400 power

00:39:25.920 so what

00:39:26.600 we're doing

00:39:27.060 in that

00:39:27.480 moment

00:39:27.880 is we're

00:39:28.660 saying that

00:39:29.100 fear

00:39:29.660 ruling by

00:39:30.660 fear

00:39:31.160 and terror

00:39:31.840 is a

00:39:32.480 legitimate

00:39:32.880 form of

00:39:33.740 governing

00:39:34.120 and that

00:39:35.000 is fundamental

00:39:35.860 to who

00:39:36.420 we are

00:39:36.980 so the

00:39:37.520 fight in

00:39:37.880 Afghanistan

00:39:38.260 has never

00:39:38.880 been just

00:39:39.480 about

00:39:39.780 Afghanistan

00:39:40.280 it has

00:39:41.040 been a

00:39:41.320 war of

00:39:41.600 ideas

00:39:41.940 from the

00:39:42.320 very

00:39:42.560 beginning

00:39:42.980 and

00:39:43.540 Amr al-Sala

00:39:44.360 is the

00:39:45.340 democratically

00:39:46.020 elected

00:39:46.540 leader of

00:39:47.160 the country

00:39:47.580 he was

00:39:48.260 vice president

00:39:49.040 at the

00:39:50.080 time

00:39:50.480 of the

00:39:52.000 Taliban 0.97

00:39:52.260 entering

00:39:52.700 Kabul

00:39:53.080 he has

00:39:53.800 never

00:39:54.040 left

00:39:54.320 the

00:39:54.480 country

00:39:54.800 he

00:39:55.320 declared

00:39:56.400 himself

00:39:56.800 acting

00:39:57.120 president

00:39:57.480 under

00:39:57.860 the

00:39:58.020 Afghan

00:39:58.320 constitution

00:39:58.980 these

00:40:00.080 are the

00:40:00.520 people

00:40:00.720 that we

00:40:01.240 have

00:40:01.480 stood

00:40:01.760 by

00:40:02.000 and

00:40:02.240 accepted

00:40:02.720 and

00:40:03.120 legitimized

00:40:03.820 and

00:40:04.360 recognized

00:40:04.940 for the

00:40:05.280 past

00:40:05.520 20

00:40:05.900 years

00:40:06.340 so why

00:40:07.160 suddenly

00:40:07.740 are we

00:40:08.460 acting as

00:40:08.900 if they're

00:40:09.180 not

00:40:09.500 fighting for

00:40:10.100 freedom

00:40:10.420 why are

00:40:11.080 we

00:40:11.220 pretending

00:40:11.680 that all

00:40:12.120 Afghans 1.00

00:40:12.620 surrendered

00:40:13.020 and that

00:40:13.800 all

00:40:14.040 Afghans 1.00

00:40:14.560 gave up

00:40:15.080 and that

00:40:15.680 the Afghan

00:40:16.360 military

00:40:16.780 isn't

00:40:17.320 fighting for

00:40:17.900 its life

00:40:18.420 and fighting

00:40:19.160 for the

00:40:19.480 right to

00:40:19.880 live

00:40:20.040 freely

00:40:20.360 and why

00:40:21.160 are we

00:40:21.500 pretending

00:40:22.000 that

00:40:22.680 Afghans 1.00

00:40:23.240 all

00:40:23.540 surrendered

00:40:24.020 and want

00:40:24.520 the

00:40:24.700 Taliban 0.97

00:40:25.040 because

00:40:25.640 there are

00:40:26.020 protests

00:40:26.520 in Kabul

00:40:27.080 there were

00:40:27.860 protests

00:40:28.380 in Herat

00:40:28.960 I mean

00:40:29.520 Megan

00:40:29.820 can you

00:40:30.520 imagine

00:40:31.000 anything

00:40:31.800 more

00:40:32.140 terrifying

00:40:32.800 as a 0.87

00:40:33.560 woman 0.99

00:40:33.780 in

00:40:34.020 Afghanistan

00:40:34.580 than

00:40:35.300 the

00:40:35.460 return

00:40:35.840 of the

00:40:36.180 Taliban 0.97

00:40:36.500 could you

00:40:37.220 imagine

00:40:37.540 the courage

00:40:38.120 that it

00:40:38.500 takes

00:40:38.880 to go

00:40:39.440 onto the

00:40:39.860 streets

00:40:40.400 of Afghanistan

00:40:41.100 today

00:40:41.720 and to

00:40:42.400 protest

00:40:42.860 whether you're

00:40:43.260 a man

00:40:43.660 or a woman

00:40:44.300 that is

00:40:45.180 truly

00:40:45.640 the embodiment

00:40:46.900 of everything

00:40:47.600 this country

00:40:48.200 stands for

00:40:48.940 these are

00:40:49.720 people who

00:40:50.140 are standing

00:40:50.620 up for

00:40:50.980 principle

00:40:51.520 and for

00:40:52.280 their freedom

00:40:52.900 and the

00:40:53.380 right to

00:40:53.780 not live

00:40:54.560 under a

00:40:55.280 regime

00:40:55.760 of tyranny

00:40:56.440 and terrorism

00:40:57.160 and you

00:40:58.060 would think

00:40:58.600 that those

00:40:59.060 are our

00:40:59.400 natural

00:40:59.760 allies

00:41:00.240 and that

00:41:01.180 is what

00:41:01.580 this country

00:41:02.100 was founded

00:41:02.760 on

00:41:03.060 they are

00:41:03.640 the living

00:41:04.160 embodiment

00:41:04.880 of everything

00:41:05.620 we are

00:41:06.080 supposed to

00:41:06.580 believe in

00:41:06.980 and stand

00:41:07.500 for

00:41:07.840 and yet

00:41:08.560 we are

00:41:08.920 ignoring

00:41:09.380 them

00:41:09.680 we're not

00:41:10.280 asking our

00:41:10.880 leaders to

00:41:11.360 acknowledge

00:41:11.800 them

00:41:12.120 we're not

00:41:12.960 sanctioning

00:41:13.600 any of our

00:41:14.220 so-called

00:41:14.700 allies

00:41:15.100 like Pakistan 1.00

00:41:15.840 who have

00:41:16.720 invaded

00:41:17.160 Afghanistan

00:41:17.740 through a

00:41:18.240 proxy force

00:41:19.040 and are

00:41:19.780 slaughtering 1.00

00:41:20.480 these people

00:41:21.060 and where

00:41:21.960 are all the

00:41:22.460 women's groups

00:41:23.200 and all the

00:41:23.920 leaders on

00:41:24.540 both sides

00:41:25.100 of the aisle

00:41:25.600 do you know

00:41:26.180 that an

00:41:26.540 Afghan woman 0.75

00:41:27.480 a police

00:41:28.340 woman 0.99

00:41:28.660 was murdered

00:41:29.720 this weekend

00:41:30.780 in front of

00:41:31.440 her children

00:41:31.960 according to

00:41:32.860 her young son

00:41:33.580 who was a

00:41:34.100 witness

00:41:34.400 that he's about

00:41:34.940 12 or 13

00:41:35.800 or 14

00:41:36.300 years old

00:41:36.900 from the

00:41:37.740 video of

00:41:38.420 him

00:41:38.640 describing

00:41:39.500 what happened

00:41:40.160 and she

00:41:41.120 was murdered

00:41:41.640 in front

00:41:42.140 of her

00:41:42.440 children

00:41:42.780 she was

00:41:43.440 six months

00:41:43.980 pregnant 0.80

00:41:44.400 and he

00:41:45.240 said

00:41:45.780 that the

00:41:46.460 Taliban 0.97

00:41:46.800 fighters 0.99

00:41:47.280 the terrorists

00:41:47.880 who killed 0.63

00:41:48.320 her

00:41:48.600 carved her 0.97

00:41:49.540 brains out 1.00

00:41:50.420 with knives

00:41:51.420 and screwdrivers

00:41:52.460 so I want

00:41:53.740 you know

00:41:54.120 everyone to

00:41:54.760 think about

00:41:55.300 that

00:41:55.740 when you

00:41:56.320 hear the

00:41:56.760 UN

00:41:57.020 talking about

00:41:57.960 humanitarian

00:41:58.500 assistance

00:41:59.280 or you

00:42:00.020 hear the

00:42:00.420 Secretary of

00:42:00.960 State

00:42:01.200 Tony Blinken

00:42:01.840 saying we

00:42:02.680 don't

00:42:02.860 worry about

00:42:03.300 the terrorists

00:42:04.200 who are

00:42:04.500 in this

00:42:04.980 government

00:42:05.360 some of

00:42:06.160 whom

00:42:06.440 are declared

00:42:07.640 foreign terrorists 0.81

00:42:08.620 by the United

00:42:09.600 States

00:42:10.060 Siraj Haqqani

00:42:11.060 the new

00:42:11.440 interior minister

00:42:12.260 who was just

00:42:13.160 announced

00:42:13.580 has a five

00:42:14.460 million dollar

00:42:14.980 bounty on his

00:42:16.000 head

00:42:16.360 right

00:42:16.960 we don't

00:42:17.300 worry about

00:42:17.800 them

00:42:18.180 we're interested

00:42:18.900 in the

00:42:19.260 actions of

00:42:20.200 the Taliban

00:42:20.920 in this

00:42:21.360 government

00:42:21.640 and we

00:42:21.940 think we

00:42:22.260 can work

00:42:22.680 with them

00:42:23.060 how can

00:42:23.640 you work

00:42:24.060 with people

00:42:24.580 who carve

00:42:25.540 a pregnant

00:42:26.040 woman's 0.95

00:42:26.600 brains 1.00

00:42:27.280 out of her 0.92

00:42:28.420 head 0.99

00:42:28.720 with

00:42:28.960 screwdrivers

00:42:29.620 can you

00:42:30.020 tell me

00:42:30.380 goodness

00:42:30.820 no

00:42:31.340 it's

00:42:32.080 it's a

00:42:32.880 point we've

00:42:33.240 been trying

00:42:33.500 to make

00:42:33.780 here

00:42:34.020 this is a

00:42:35.320 group that

00:42:35.760 has engaged

00:42:36.440 in serial 0.99

00:42:36.960 child rape 0.94

00:42:37.640 and torture 0.99

00:42:38.160 how are we

00:42:38.960 negotiating

00:42:39.480 with them

00:42:39.960 and you've

00:42:40.300 got our

00:42:40.600 Secretary of

00:42:41.160 State

00:42:41.300 coming out

00:42:41.760 and saying

00:42:42.160 a new

00:42:43.240 chapter

00:42:43.760 in America's

00:42:45.000 relationship

00:42:45.660 with the

00:42:46.000 Taliban 0.97

00:42:46.340 has begun

00:42:47.420 it's

00:42:47.760 it's one

00:42:48.200 in which

00:42:48.500 we are

00:42:48.800 going to

00:42:49.140 lead

00:42:49.580 with our

00:42:50.080 diplomacy

00:42:50.820 how do

00:42:51.780 you have

00:42:52.120 diplomacy

00:42:52.660 with child 1.00

00:42:53.700 rapists 0.98

00:42:54.240 with serial 1.00

00:42:55.180 murderers

00:42:55.720 how I mean 0.83

00:42:56.300 and you

00:42:56.960 make a

00:42:57.240 good point

00:42:57.580 which is

00:42:58.040 the

00:42:58.640 legitimately

00:42:59.000 elected

00:42:59.480 government

00:42:59.880 the

00:43:00.620 president

00:43:00.920 fled

00:43:01.240 but it's

00:43:02.040 still in

00:43:02.400 place

00:43:02.780 they're

00:43:03.180 still

00:43:03.380 fighting

00:43:03.820 they're

00:43:04.120 out in

00:43:04.340 the

00:43:04.440 streets

00:43:04.660 right now

00:43:05.000 protesting

00:43:05.520 as the

00:43:05.940 Taliban 0.97

00:43:06.240 shoots

00:43:06.700 into the

00:43:07.000 air

00:43:07.140 try to

00:43:07.540 send them

00:43:08.140 back

00:43:08.420 into their

00:43:09.560 into their

00:43:10.020 homes

00:43:10.360 and we're

00:43:11.020 still trying

00:43:11.400 to pretend

00:43:11.760 that that

00:43:12.100 group at

00:43:12.400 the top

00:43:12.720 is one

00:43:12.980 we can

00:43:13.220 deal

00:43:13.420 with

00:43:13.620 and that

00:43:13.880 we're

00:43:14.040 going

00:43:14.240 to make

00:43:14.600 some

00:43:14.760 progress

00:43:15.320 with our

00:43:16.120 diplomacy

00:43:16.820 though we've

00:43:18.900 pulled every

00:43:19.280 single one of

00:43:19.660 our diplomats

00:43:20.160 out of

00:43:20.400 Afghanistan

00:43:20.800 those

00:43:21.520 diplomats

00:43:22.020 many

00:43:26.300 so what

00:43:27.120 people don't

00:43:27.660 really know

00:43:28.280 is that

00:43:28.940 Zomal Khalilzad

00:43:29.840 the US

00:43:30.220 presidential

00:43:30.820 envoy

00:43:31.220 was appointed

00:43:31.740 by Trump

00:43:32.200 and kept

00:43:32.620 by Biden

00:43:33.200 and you

00:43:34.220 know

00:43:34.340 Biden

00:43:34.660 fired almost

00:43:35.300 everyone

00:43:36.000 that was

00:43:36.880 associated

00:43:37.360 with Trump

00:43:37.920 and rescinded

00:43:38.980 every executive

00:43:39.680 order just

00:43:40.320 about that

00:43:40.760 he'd ever

00:43:41.080 made

00:43:41.440 so there

00:43:42.300 is no

00:43:42.720 justification

00:43:43.340 for keeping

00:43:44.140 Khalilzad

00:43:44.660 except that

00:43:45.140 you wanted

00:43:45.640 him

00:43:45.920 right

00:43:46.340 and they

00:43:46.900 can lie

00:43:47.280 about that

00:43:47.740 all day

00:43:48.180 long

00:43:48.400 but they

00:43:48.860 wanted

00:43:49.240 him

00:43:49.520 and

00:43:50.200 Khalilzad

00:43:51.100 opened an

00:43:51.600 office

00:43:51.920 there

00:43:52.220 they call

00:43:53.260 it a

00:43:53.540 coordination

00:43:54.060 office

00:43:54.760 right

00:43:55.020 to make

00:43:55.520 the

00:43:55.900 coordination

00:43:56.300 in the

00:43:56.760 wake

00:43:56.920 of the

00:43:57.180 Doha

00:43:57.480 agreement

00:43:57.940 well

00:43:58.540 that

00:43:58.820 the

00:43:59.100 plan

00:43:59.500 is

00:43:59.720 to

00:43:59.880 turn

00:44:00.140 that

00:44:00.600 into

00:44:01.060 a

00:44:01.240 liaison

00:44:01.660 office

00:44:02.260 with

00:44:02.840 the

00:44:03.000 Taliban 0.97

00:44:03.300 and

00:44:03.840 that

00:44:04.020 is

00:44:04.200 a

00:44:04.400 significant

00:44:05.180 step

00:44:05.740 towards

00:44:06.360 recognizing

00:44:07.120 terrorists

00:44:07.960 and legitimizing

00:44:09.120 fear as a

00:44:09.840 form of

00:44:10.400 governing

00:44:10.760 and at

00:44:11.520 the same

00:44:11.940 time

00:44:12.400 they're

00:44:12.860 going to

00:44:13.120 pass

00:44:13.520 off

00:44:13.980 the money

00:44:14.400 they want

00:44:14.720 to send

00:44:15.120 to the

00:44:15.560 Taliban 0.97

00:44:15.840 as

00:44:16.300 humanitarian

00:44:16.800 aid

00:44:17.580 so

00:44:18.140 Megan

00:44:18.620 you know

00:44:19.080 what

00:44:19.720 people don't

00:44:20.500 know

00:44:20.800 is that

00:44:21.140 the Afghan

00:44:21.760 government

00:44:22.520 was kept

00:44:23.100 afloat

00:44:23.600 by the

00:44:24.180 US

00:44:24.420 we were

00:44:24.860 sending

00:44:25.200 over

00:44:25.680 150

00:44:26.260 million

00:44:26.580 dollars

00:44:27.000 in

00:44:27.240 cash

00:44:27.640 every

00:44:28.160 week

00:44:28.500 to

00:44:28.720 Afghanistan

00:44:29.280 well hold

00:44:30.120 hold right

00:44:30.800 there

00:44:31.040 because I

00:44:31.420 actually do

00:44:31.760 want to

00:44:31.980 pick it up

00:44:32.320 with you

00:44:32.640 on the

00:44:33.360 money

00:44:33.640 and whether

00:44:34.640 we might

00:44:35.160 be on

00:44:35.420 the hook

00:44:35.700 for funding

00:44:36.360 some of

00:44:36.840 the Taliban's 0.96

00:44:37.580 new

00:44:37.860 agenda

00:44:38.260 Laura's

00:44:39.200 going to

00:44:39.320 stay with

00:44:39.580 us

00:44:39.700 we'll pick

00:44:40.000 it up

00:44:40.440 with her

00:44:40.780 right after

00:44:41.220 we take

00:44:41.480 a quick

00:44:41.780 break

00:44:42.320 plus

00:44:43.140 Professor

00:44:43.740 Alan

00:44:44.120 Dershowitz

00:44:44.540 is here

00:44:44.980 and fired 0.62

00:44:45.580 up to talk

00:44:46.100 about his

00:44:46.420 recent fight

00:44:47.060 with Larry

00:44:48.040 David

00:44:48.520 we'll be

00:44:49.420 right back

00:44:49.920 all right

00:44:53.800 let's pick

00:44:54.100 back up

00:44:54.480 with the

00:44:54.980 money

00:44:55.320 because the

00:44:55.820 money to

00:44:56.140 me is very

00:44:56.540 interesting

00:44:56.880 what we

00:44:57.260 funded to

00:44:57.720 them

00:44:58.040 what it

00:44:58.820 says about

00:44:59.280 us

00:44:59.620 and now

00:45:00.200 you put

00:45:00.600 you touched

00:45:00.960 on it a

00:45:01.360 minute ago

00:45:01.860 whether we're

00:45:03.300 prepared to

00:45:04.060 in the form

00:45:04.940 of quote

00:45:05.340 aid or

00:45:06.240 some other

00:45:06.920 way start

00:45:07.860 funding the

00:45:08.680 Taliban 0.97

00:45:09.120 which is

00:45:10.060 close with

00:45:10.540 Al Qaeda 0.89

00:45:11.080 no matter

00:45:11.580 what the

00:45:12.020 press tells

00:45:12.560 you and

00:45:13.720 its resurgence

00:45:14.820 I mean we

00:45:15.280 could be in a

00:45:15.800 position where

00:45:16.300 the American

00:45:16.760 taxpayer is

00:45:17.700 funding the

00:45:18.900 very terrorist

00:45:19.500 group that

00:45:20.700 we went to

00:45:22.260 Afghanistan to

00:45:22.940 fight 20

00:45:23.540 plus years

00:45:24.040 ago

00:45:24.320 well it's

00:45:25.000 much worse

00:45:25.500 than that

00:45:25.920 Megan because

00:45:26.420 we already

00:45:26.940 are funding

00:45:27.800 the Taliban

00:45:28.240 we've let

00:45:29.140 them hold

00:45:30.000 on to 80

00:45:30.560 billion dollars

00:45:31.540 worth of

00:45:32.500 military equipment

00:45:33.260 and what most

00:45:34.320 Americans don't 1.00

00:45:35.080 know is that

00:45:35.960 it literally is

00:45:36.860 as quick as

00:45:37.500 the flick of

00:45:38.020 a switch

00:45:38.460 for us to

00:45:39.720 destroy every

00:45:41.020 attack helicopter

00:45:42.100 and airplane

00:45:43.200 and armored

00:45:44.160 vehicle that

00:45:45.260 is now in

00:45:46.320 the hands

00:45:46.780 of the Taliban

00:45:47.700 and Al Qaeda

00:45:48.520 and it is

00:45:49.360 important to

00:45:49.900 address this

00:45:50.500 point of

00:45:51.040 Taliban versus 0.93

00:45:52.060 Al Qaeda 0.89

00:45:52.500 versus the 0.55

00:45:53.020 Haqqani network 0.98

00:45:53.800 and ISIS

00:45:54.360 what people

00:45:55.340 are constantly

00:45:56.960 deceived about

00:45:57.940 is that all

00:45:58.580 of these groups

00:45:59.180 have the same

00:45:59.860 goal

00:46:00.200 they may fight

00:46:01.320 with each other

00:46:01.940 for power

00:46:02.620 and vie for

00:46:03.340 position and

00:46:04.080 so on

00:46:04.560 but essentially

00:46:05.500 they all adhere

00:46:06.760 to the ideology

00:46:07.800 of Al Qaeda

00:46:08.980 which is the

00:46:10.380 ideological base

00:46:11.580 of the global

00:46:12.500 jihad for every 0.99

00:46:13.880 Islamic terrorist

00:46:14.620 group fighting 0.85

00:46:15.280 anywhere in the

00:46:16.360 world and what

00:46:17.500 you're actually

00:46:17.900 looking at with

00:46:18.600 the Islamic

00:46:19.080 Emirate of 0.75

00:46:19.760 the Taliban

00:46:20.200 this government

00:46:21.180 that they have

00:46:21.820 announced this

00:46:22.940 is the foundation

00:46:23.820 of Osama bin 0.62

00:46:24.640 Laden's

00:46:25.100 caliphate 0.84

00:46:25.720 there if you

00:46:26.640 look now at

00:46:27.480 Lebanon and

00:46:28.400 Syria and

00:46:29.400 Yemen and

00:46:30.400 Libya these 1.00

00:46:31.340 are the other

00:46:31.980 caliphates right

00:46:33.020 these are the

00:46:33.600 other Islamic 0.75

00:46:34.640 emirates and

00:46:35.860 they will form

00:46:36.940 and join to

00:46:38.320 form the entire

00:46:39.440 caliphate in the

00:46:40.420 end they're

00:46:41.060 working on one

00:46:41.800 in Nigeria as

00:46:42.860 we speak that's

00:46:43.540 why you know so

00:46:44.420 many people Muslims

00:46:45.340 and Christian but

00:46:46.220 they're mostly

00:46:46.860 Christians are 0.99

00:46:47.860 being slaughtered 1.00

00:46:48.660 every day this is 0.83

00:46:49.740 part of Osama bin

00:46:50.780 Laden's plan and

00:46:52.100 what is really hard

00:46:53.140 to understand is

00:46:54.620 why why would the

00:46:56.360 Biden administration

00:46:57.380 or any administration

00:46:59.080 do this to the

00:47:01.060 United States of

00:47:01.780 America why would

00:47:02.960 we give victory to

00:47:04.540 Al Qaeda on the

00:47:05.680 20th anniversary of

00:47:06.940 9-11 and not just

00:47:08.320 Al Qaeda Hezbollah

00:47:09.700 Hamas every Islamic 1.00

00:47:11.540 terrorist group and 0.99

00:47:13.120 every terrorist group

00:47:14.020 in the world now

00:47:15.220 sees that the

00:47:16.360 United States the

00:47:17.380 leader of the free

00:47:18.320 world the nation

00:47:19.460 that is supposed to

00:47:20.400 stand for democracy

00:47:21.440 and supposed to

00:47:22.600 stand for liberty and

00:47:23.900 freedom as a way of

00:47:24.800 life is now saying

00:47:26.220 well we're okay with

00:47:28.080 the fact that you

00:47:29.140 don't believe in

00:47:30.280 freedom and that you

00:47:31.120 rule by fear and

00:47:32.480 in fact not only are

00:47:34.080 we okay with it we're

00:47:35.340 going to endorse it

00:47:36.260 we're going to

00:47:36.720 legitimize it we're

00:47:37.680 going to lie about it

00:47:38.560 to our people because

00:47:39.280 they know the US is

00:47:40.800 lying and we're going

00:47:42.260 to fund it for you

00:47:44.020 so it's like we I

00:47:45.880 feel like we've gone

00:47:46.620 into insanity land and

00:47:48.520 people say to me well

00:47:49.480 that makes no sense

00:47:50.380 why would they do

00:47:51.100 that I cannot answer

00:47:52.860 that question that is

00:47:54.380 a question for those

00:47:55.240 leaders to answer it's

00:47:56.860 a question for

00:47:57.400 Americans to ask of 0.93

00:47:59.160 their leaders it

00:48:00.140 doesn't matter whether

00:48:00.880 you're Democrat or

00:48:01.840 Republican it's way 0.68

00:48:03.380 too late for partisan

00:48:04.920 politics to have any

00:48:06.280 relevance here

00:48:07.080 whatsoever we're

00:48:08.660 fighting for our

00:48:09.520 survival and we're

00:48:10.800 fighting for the

00:48:11.500 survival of the

00:48:12.320 American dream and

00:48:14.460 the American idea

00:48:15.620 that is what is being

00:48:17.020 obliterated right now

00:48:18.440 and with every person

00:48:19.860 who is killed in the

00:48:21.080 Panjshir Valley where

00:48:22.320 the Afghan government

00:48:23.340 forces the special

00:48:24.420 operations troops who

00:48:26.000 are fighting against

00:48:27.040 all the odds Megan

00:48:28.580 can you imagine I

00:48:29.820 mean the US was

00:48:30.760 mocked and you know

00:48:32.120 and sort of ridiculed

00:48:33.620 for 20 years of

00:48:35.000 building Afghan forces

00:48:35.980 and look what you did

00:48:36.880 they just collapsed

00:48:37.600 why would we

00:48:38.560 participate in that

00:48:39.640 false narrative the

00:48:41.020 Afghan special

00:48:41.720 operations forces and

00:48:42.960 commandos that are in

00:48:44.200 the Panjshir Valley now

00:48:45.420 I mean they are in a

00:48:47.080 desperate humanitarian

00:48:47.960 situation because there's

00:48:49.680 a quarter of a million

00:48:50.480 people there with them

00:48:51.500 who need food and who

00:48:52.900 need medical supplies

00:48:53.920 but they have inflicted

00:48:55.420 massive losses on

00:48:57.380 Taliban forces they're 0.95

00:48:58.780 holding out against

00:48:59.700 Pakistan China Russia

00:49:01.840 US armor US assets

00:49:04.380 air power and they are

00:49:05.900 still fighting they're

00:49:07.640 still holding their

00:49:08.500 ground and they're

00:49:09.140 willing to fight to

00:49:09.980 the death for their

00:49:11.260 freedom so to every

00:49:12.600 person who calls

00:49:13.460 Afghanistan a failed 0.99

00:49:14.880 American experiment you

00:49:16.540 are dishonoring some of

00:49:18.200 the bravest people on the

00:49:19.880 face of the earth who

00:49:21.300 truly believe in freedom

00:49:23.000 because they're willing to

00:49:24.140 give their lives for it so

00:49:25.760 don't demean them and

00:49:27.260 patronize them and

00:49:28.680 dismiss them and ignore

00:49:30.240 them because in so doing

00:49:32.100 you are sowing the seeds for

00:49:34.040 the end of everything that

00:49:35.160 you value in this

00:49:36.600 country the end of

00:49:38.100 American authority and

00:49:39.480 moral authority on the

00:49:40.640 world stage and American

00:49:42.220 power and what's clear

00:49:44.060 is we don't seem to care

00:49:46.020 our our president doesn't

00:49:47.480 seem much to care about

00:49:48.560 that our the chairman of

00:49:50.000 the Joint Chiefs Milley

00:49:51.100 was out there just this

00:49:52.900 weekend sounding very

00:49:54.360 cavalier about what's

00:49:56.360 about to happen there and

00:49:57.880 then back stateside as a

00:49:59.340 result to us listen to him

00:50:00.720 is the US safer today

00:50:02.780 since the US has withdrawn

00:50:04.600 from Afghanistan well you

00:50:06.820 know this is something

00:50:07.660 that I've thought a lot

00:50:09.480 about and and I

00:50:11.780 personally think that my

00:50:13.360 military estimate is is

00:50:14.520 that the conditions are

00:50:15.980 likely to develop of a

00:50:20.720 civil war I don't know if

00:50:23.180 the Taliban is going to be 0.99

00:50:23.940 able to consolidate power

00:50:24.880 and establish governance

00:50:25.940 they may be maybe not but

00:50:28.100 I think there's at least a

00:50:29.780 very good probability of a

00:50:31.580 broader civil war and that

00:50:33.480 will then in turn lead to

00:50:34.800 conditions that could in

00:50:36.120 fact lead to a

00:50:37.240 reconstitution of Al Qaeda or

00:50:39.380 a growth of ISIS or other

00:50:41.340 myriad of terrorist groups

00:50:42.520 so I think the the short

00:50:44.400 answer to your question is

00:50:45.360 we don't know yet but the

00:50:47.860 conditions are very likely

00:50:48.960 in my opinion that and I've

00:50:50.920 testified this and I've said

00:50:51.940 it in public that you could

00:50:53.840 see a resurgence of

00:50:54.760 terrorism coming out of that

00:50:55.680 general region within 12

00:50:57.280 24 36 months omg oh um what

00:51:01.920 right like that seems like

00:51:04.040 something we should have

00:51:04.720 factored in oh Megan there's

00:51:06.800 just not a single thing in

00:51:08.360 there and there's nothing

00:51:09.640 left of general Milley that

00:51:11.700 speaks to integrity and

00:51:13.800 honesty and good standing he

00:51:15.740 has failed this country in

00:51:17.220 every possible respect and the

00:51:19.220 soldiers under his command and

00:51:21.060 the American people and the

00:51:22.300 Afghan people because he knows 0.53

00:51:24.120 he's lying I mean you know this

00:51:26.060 is what people really need to

00:51:27.500 factor in when they try to

00:51:28.600 make up their minds about

00:51:30.020 what you know what is true and

00:51:31.360 what isn't general Milley

00:51:32.880 knows more than you he knows

00:51:34.400 more than me he knows more

00:51:35.740 than every American out there

00:51:37.040 right he knows that there's

00:51:38.840 already a civil war in

00:51:39.920 Afghanistan he knows that 0.72

00:51:41.620 Al Qaeda never left he knows 0.99

00:51:43.780 that some of the most senior

00:51:44.920 figures in Al Qaeda returned

00:51:46.820 already from Pakistan and are

00:51:48.920 working with the Afghan Al Qaeda 0.59

00:51:51.180 Siraj Haqqani that's the

00:51:52.840 Haqqani network and who is a 0.98

00:51:54.680 designated terrorist General

00:51:56.120 Milley and General Austin all

00:51:57.600 of these people they had

00:51:59.100 soldiers on the ground in the

00:52:00.920 fight right I mean they have

00:52:02.780 seen the remains of U.S. 0.90

00:52:04.880 servicemen coming back do you 0.99

00:52:06.780 know what they did Megan

00:52:07.720 Siraj Haqqani who was

00:52:09.780 designated as a foreign

00:52:10.800 terrorist in 2012 who the

00:52:12.900 Taliban has named as their you 1.00

00:52:14.540 know interior minister in their

00:52:15.980 new government he has been in

00:52:17.760 charge of security in Kabul from

00:52:20.020 the moment the Taliban entered

00:52:21.680 you know why because the

00:52:23.060 Haqqani network has always 1.00

00:52:24.200 owned Kabul they are

00:52:25.600 responsible for most of the

00:52:26.780 terrorist attacks in that

00:52:28.340 city it's their natural

00:52:29.700 terrain they are the same

00:52:31.200 people who are most likely

00:52:32.740 responsible for the bombing

00:52:34.380 of U.S. forces that killed

00:52:36.820 13 Americans and over 100

00:52:38.660 Afghans more than 80 percent

00:52:40.440 of the bombs used in Kabul

00:52:42.780 have been traced to two

00:52:43.980 fertilizer factories in

00:52:45.460 Pakistan by the head of the 0.99

00:52:46.980 joint special operations task

00:52:48.400 force Jai Edo that was set up

00:52:50.160 to counter IEDs so all of

00:52:52.600 these generals they know

00:52:53.640 exactly what's going on on the

00:52:55.580 ground they know that the

00:52:56.980 soldiers they trained are

00:52:58.900 fighting in the mountains in

00:53:00.780 the Panjshir Valley they know

00:53:02.640 that they have been killing the

00:53:04.080 Taliban fighters in

00:53:05.920 extraordinary numbers they know

00:53:08.340 that there's a stench of death

00:53:10.000 rising from the floor of the

00:53:11.660 valley from all of the

00:53:12.880 unclaimed bodies and this is not

00:53:14.940 by any means you know a great

00:53:17.540 situation for any of the people

00:53:19.220 involved they're under an

00:53:20.640 extraordinary amount of

00:53:22.140 pressure they are at risk of

00:53:23.880 running out of ammo they're

00:53:25.260 low on food and so on but you

00:53:27.220 know what they have in their

00:53:28.720 side the truth because they're

00:53:31.600 fighting for something noble and

00:53:33.300 they're fighting with dignity and

00:53:35.240 also they know the terrain it is

00:53:37.520 it is there's snow in the

00:53:39.480 mountains Megan and winter is

00:53:40.980 coming and they the U.S.

00:53:43.620 chose General Milley General

00:53:45.000 Austin all of them they chose to

00:53:47.040 do this withdrawal in the

00:53:48.660 summer months the fighting

00:53:49.980 season when the Taliban and its 0.97

00:53:52.080 fighters are most engaged and

00:53:54.200 most active if they had chosen

00:53:55.940 to do this in the winter months

00:53:57.560 the Pakistan that the Taliban 0.98

00:53:59.560 fighters and al-Qaeda and all of

00:54:01.260 them they're in Pakistan during

00:54:02.880 the winter months they don't like

00:54:04.480 the snow and they don't like the

00:54:05.640 cold they come from the south of

00:54:07.680 the country from Kandahar and

00:54:09.260 Helmand and places like this where

00:54:10.940 they're used to the heat and so

00:54:12.820 this is a factor that is going to

00:54:14.360 play very much into the hands of

00:54:16.200 the government forces and

00:54:17.880 President Saleh and his people

00:54:20.620 around him in the mountains of

00:54:22.240 Panjshir but it also speaks to the

00:54:24.380 fact that the U.S. had a very

00:54:26.340 simple choice they could have done

00:54:28.280 this much more easily in the winter

00:54:30.320 months or they could have picked a

00:54:32.000 fight they could have let the

00:54:33.380 Taliban do this on their terms when 0.98

00:54:35.320 they could inflict the most damage on

00:54:37.240 the Afghan forces and the Afghan

00:54:38.620 government and that was the choice

00:54:40.280 that they made they have chosen to

00:54:42.140 leave the U.S.'s military

00:54:43.760 equipment in the hands of terrorists

00:54:45.440 they have chosen not to use their

00:54:47.260 air power they've chosen not to put

00:54:49.080 sanctions on Pakistan they've chosen

00:54:51.060 not to sanction Qatar or to use any

00:54:53.900 of their diplomatic or economic power

00:54:56.240 to change the effects on the

00:54:57.880 battlefield they've chosen to ignore

00:54:59.900 President Saleh and the Afghan

00:55:01.440 government forces in the mountains

00:55:02.900 they've chosen not to supply them or

00:55:05.020 to support them in any way they've

00:55:06.660 chosen to pressure neighboring

00:55:07.900 governments not to let Afghan 1.00

00:55:09.780 refugees come out not to assist 1.00

00:55:11.840 Americans doing private evacuation

00:55:13.460 flights they've made all these

00:55:15.160 decisions these are not mistakes

00:55:16.760 these are not failures in policy that

00:55:18.720 they're rushing to rectify these are

00:55:20.780 the chosen courses of action that

00:55:22.920 they're sticking by and that they're

00:55:25.100 defending and that they're pushing

00:55:27.200 forward so that tells me as a

00:55:30.400 journalist everything that I need to

00:55:31.960 know about the outcome here it tells

00:55:34.400 me that if the Biden administration had

00:55:36.700 a problem with the outcome in the

00:55:38.560 situation that we're in now if they

00:55:40.320 had a problem legitimizing terrorists

00:55:42.680 as a regime they wouldn't be doing

00:55:44.580 it because nobody's got a gun to their

00:55:46.220 head saying that you have to do it

00:55:47.960 in fact the Taliban is holding

00:55:49.500 American citizens as hostages the

00:55:52.100 State Department is you know has rules

00:55:54.060 about this right if you hold an

00:55:55.920 American against their will prevent 1.00

00:55:57.260 them from leaving the country for a

00:55:59.000 certain period of time they are

00:56:00.480 they are considered a hostage by the

00:56:02.840 U.S. government well there are

00:56:04.500 American citizens who can't leave 1.00

00:56:06.020 Mazar-i-Sharif right now because the 0.90

00:56:08.020 Taliban is using them as leverage and 0.95

00:56:10.440 one other thing there is a man by the

00:56:12.500 name of Nurzai who is serving life in

00:56:14.900 prison right now because he is a 0.55

00:56:17.020 significant person in setting up the

00:56:19.840 Taliban's narco terror network that has

00:56:22.160 been trafficking in heroin and financing

00:56:24.720 the Taliban and al-Qaeda and other

00:56:26.540 terrorist groups for some time now the

00:56:28.880 Taliban want Nurzai back and they have 1.00

00:56:31.660 an American hostage we never hear that

00:56:33.980 Biden administration or anybody talking

00:56:36.620 about the fact that we gave up all of

00:56:38.900 what we've given up to the Taliban and 1.00

00:56:40.860 we never talk about getting this

00:56:43.440 American back we never talk about the 0.99

00:56:45.440 deal that we're considering releasing

00:56:47.300 Nurzai from prison and what I understand

00:56:49.960 from very senior sources in the DEA you

00:56:52.760 know they wanted to indict the top eight

00:56:55.320 tier leaders of the Taliban back in 2013

00:56:59.060 on narcotics trafficking charges and they

00:57:01.760 were prevented from doing so by the Obama

00:57:04.040 administration that said oh we couldn't

00:57:05.460 possibly do that we don't have an

00:57:06.980 extradition treaty with the Afghan 0.99

00:57:08.760 government well these are pathetic 0.98

00:57:10.660 excuses they're made up reasons to 0.98

00:57:13.940 justify policy decisions that hurt the

00:57:16.960 United States and it's time for leaders

00:57:19.540 on both sides to realize that Americans

00:57:21.920 are united in their disgust and shame at

00:57:26.740 the betrayal and what's going on in

00:57:28.280 Afghanistan and if we don't do 0.99

00:57:30.560 something about it the consequences for

00:57:32.680 this country are very very grave because

00:57:35.740 we are empowering a terrorist super

00:57:37.520 state whose main goal is the 0.65

00:57:39.820 annihilation of every free person on the

00:57:43.680 face of the earth and and you heard

00:57:46.600 General Milley say it explicitly there

00:57:48.820 that it wouldn't be surprised at all if

00:57:50.820 we see terrorism brought from there to

00:57:53.120 here within the next 12 to 36 months well

00:57:56.620 that's not a shock to any of us we all we

00:57:59.120 all saw that coming it's one of the

00:58:00.800 questions why many of us asked why do

00:58:02.800 all the troops have to come out why

00:58:04.260 well there was no massive movement back

00:58:06.560 here at home to have every last troop

00:58:08.540 removed from Afghanistan this wasn't a

00:58:10.480 Vietnam situation where Americans were

00:58:12.440 in the street saying pull them all it's

00:58:14.360 not like when Trump first said I want to I

00:58:16.060 want the troops to go home we had 15,000

00:58:18.100 and he started to withdraw or withdraw them

00:58:19.900 down we only had 4,000 left and and we were

00:58:22.860 holding the peace okay and we were

00:58:24.620 preventing the surrender of Afghanistan to

00:58:27.200 this terrorist group that that foments

00:58:29.480 more terrorism with Al Qaeda and now we're

00:58:31.440 in a very different situation you heard it

00:58:32.880 from Milley himself I want to ask you

00:58:35.040 though this about the press because while

00:58:36.680 the press was tough on Biden unusually

00:58:39.120 tough for them on Biden at the beginning

00:58:41.600 this I feel like they're starting to turn

00:58:43.280 and if you look at sort of the latest you've

00:58:46.920 got the New York Times coming out and

00:58:48.440 writing about how the administration

00:58:50.860 quickly adjusted to the chaos in Afghanistan

00:58:53.780 and by the time the last American soldiers

00:58:56.260 left on Monday the U.S. military and its

00:58:58.560 allies had evacuated around 124,000 people

00:59:01.120 moment of victory for them as far as they

00:59:03.240 see Ezra Klein of the New York Times a

00:59:05.380 better withdrawal was possible but so was

00:59:07.700 a worse one and then there was John

00:59:09.260 Carl over over an ABC Biden accomplished

00:59:12.040 exactly what Trump had tried to do but

00:59:14.980 perhaps not as quickly and with more

00:59:17.220 regard for the Afghan citizens who worked 0.95

00:59:19.460 with the United States so already they're

00:59:21.240 trying to run cover for him and of course

00:59:23.460 shift the narrative to more domestic

00:59:25.920 stories because everyone in the press

00:59:27.640 realizes this has been disastrous for

00:59:29.240 Biden and his poll numbers give you the

00:59:30.920 last word you know I was talking this

00:59:34.600 weekend to someone who used to go to an

00:59:36.740 underground church in Afghanistan and he

00:59:39.100 was telling me that while another member

00:59:41.460 of the church was on the line with the

00:59:43.600 Christians who were gathered together from

00:59:46.100 that church and they were praying

00:59:47.700 together they could hear the Taliban come 0.89

00:59:49.580 to their door they could hear the door

00:59:51.620 open and they could hear the gunfire and

00:59:53.760 they believe that everyone in that

00:59:55.400 underground church was executed this

00:59:58.980 weekend so I would say to the New York

01:00:01.300 Times and to ABC and to all of the other

01:00:03.620 reporters that anybody who is defending

01:00:06.260 this and trying to portray this as if it

01:00:08.480 was Biden was more humane and did better for

01:00:11.020 the Afghan people it is an absolute the scale 1.00

01:00:15.020 and depth of that lie and that dishonesty is

01:00:18.620 so overwhelming I don't even know how to

01:00:21.800 address it I have an Afghan friend my

01:00:24.340 colleague from 60 Minutes who has been

01:00:26.220 here the last few days we have volunteers

01:00:29.400 that have come from all over the country

01:00:31.260 that are trying to help get humanitarian

01:00:33.220 assistance into Afghanistan and get people

01:00:36.480 rescued and one after another after another I

01:00:40.020 mean people are just absolutely shocked and

01:00:43.520 stunned at the news that's coming out the

01:00:46.140 phone every time it rings on Saturday night

01:00:48.400 it was another relative of his who had been

01:00:50.920 killed in the fighting in the Panjia Valley and

01:00:53.400 then it was his uncle who had been shot and

01:00:56.120 then it was his uncle's brother who had been

01:00:57.940 killed and then it was his village that had

01:00:59.620 been overrun and you know it's it's never

01:01:02.040 ending and what you see happening here with

01:01:04.520 the press is what Biden what the Biden

01:01:06.680 administration did very effectively remember

01:01:08.760 the pic the images of all those people running

01:01:11.320 under the tarmac those people clinging to

01:01:13.500 that last flight that's the image of

01:01:15.680 Afghanistan that they did not want anyone 1.00

01:01:17.800 to see because we were supposed to believe

01:01:19.920 that none of the Afghan people were

01:01:22.160 resisting that everyone supports the Taliban

01:01:24.600 they really wanted the Taliban democracy 1.00

01:01:26.360 was a failed experiment and so on right and

01:01:29.100 none of them had the will what a general

01:01:30.680 Austin say you can't buy willpower that

01:01:33.560 was the narrative and they didn't want

01:01:34.860 anything to interfere well as long as you

01:01:36.820 had journalists on the ground witnessing

01:01:39.340 the desperation and and the truth that

01:01:43.820 was an uncomfortable position for the

01:01:45.640 administration to be in so they quickly

01:01:47.500 evacuated all of those journalists you

01:01:49.760 know the New York Times Wall Street

01:01:51.520 Journal they got them all out problem

01:01:53.540 number one solved number two they went to

01:01:55.840 Siraj Akhani the man responsible for

01:01:58.060 killing more people in Kabul than anybody

01:01:59.820 else the one man right and they asked him

01:02:02.780 to help them secure the airport and they put

01:02:05.780 a perimeter around it by the Taliban and

01:02:07.700 what happened immediately after that the

01:02:09.780 Taliban put up a gazillion checkpoints and

01:02:12.400 people were beaten people were stopped at

01:02:14.200 those checkpoints people were unable to

01:02:16.220 reach the airport so the Biden administration

01:02:18.340 working with terrorists made sure that they

01:02:20.860 had full control over the narrative and in

01:02:23.280 that space they then went about lying to the

01:02:26.120 American people every time they opened their 1.00

01:02:27.920 mouths now it comes back to a compliant press

01:02:30.480 that sees his falling approval numbers he's

01:02:33.340 he's down to forty five point eight percent

01:02:36.800 approval that was from a high of fifty four

01:02:38.680 percent approval at the end of his first

01:02:40.420 hundred days he's had a drop in seven key

01:02:42.500 congressional districts that Democrats are

01:02:44.440 defending in the next year according to a

01:02:46.800 GOP poll that just came out so they can

01:02:49.400 feel the political consequences of these

01:02:52.160 decisions Laura Logan always a pleasure thank

01:02:54.860 you so much for bringing your expertise and

01:02:57.040 just a pleasure to talk to you again lots of

01:02:59.140 love I want to pretend Megan that I'm the

01:03:01.460 rational cool-headed journalist but I got

01:03:04.520 to tell you when I hear that and I know the

01:03:06.640 reality I I can only say there's a special 0.98

01:03:09.580 place in hell for all of those people

01:03:11.260 listen it's personal for you unlike most of 0.94

01:03:13.860 us you've been there you know these people

01:03:15.780 that's one of the reasons why your insights

01:03:18.120 are invaluable and I I feel like your

01:03:20.480 your passion makes us listen to you more so

01:03:22.820 don't apologize it's wonderful to thank you

01:03:25.120 for caring lots of love lady okay up next

01:03:29.320 Alan Dershowitz is here he's gonna talk

01:03:31.700 about this major abortion rights case

01:03:33.320 that's well we've had the dust up down in

01:03:35.940 Texas and we've also had another we have

01:03:37.540 another case it's going up to the Supreme

01:03:38.860 Court and he just got into a weird fight

01:03:40.760 with Larry David you got to hear this story

01:03:44.140 and by the way we'd love to know your

01:03:45.240 thoughts on anything we've discussed today

01:03:46.700 or recently on the show you know before we

01:03:48.640 launched a series we had a show and

01:03:50.540 continue to on podcasting it's free and if

01:03:53.320 you have any personal questions well 0.94

01:03:55.300 screw you no just kidding I may I may

01:03:58.040 answer them it depends how are they how 0.96

01:04:01.420 personal are they give us a call 8 3 3 4 4

01:04:05.820 Megan 8 3 3 4 4 6 3 4 9 6 8 3 3 4 4 6 3 4 9 6

01:04:15.020 I'm gonna get it straight I don't have it

01:04:17.120 but listen it's 8 3 3 4 4 Megan M-E-G-Y-N

01:04:20.000 boom joining me now one of my favorite

01:04:26.360 people Alan Dershowitz professor emeritus

01:04:29.300 at Harvard Law School and scourge of Larry

01:04:32.360 David we'll get to that in one second

01:04:33.920 great to see you Alan let's let's start

01:04:37.620 with yeah go ahead I'm a little tired I've

01:04:40.580 been up all night trying to help rescue

01:04:43.260 200 or so women judges from Afghanistan 0.84

01:04:47.180 trying to put together a team to do that so

01:04:49.540 it's been an exhausting exhausting couple

01:04:51.540 of days and I hope some progress are you

01:04:54.400 we hope so you know the Talmud says and

01:04:57.200 the Quran says he who saves or she who

01:04:59.380 saves even a single human life it's as if

01:05:01.400 they've saved the world and you know I see

01:05:03.500 images of the Holocaust as I see these

01:05:05.800 judges and their families running to

01:05:08.100 safety with Taliban men threatening to 1.00

01:05:10.740 kill them and their families because they 1.00

01:05:12.360 served as female judges imagine the 1.00

01:05:14.620 arrogance of a female judge sentencing a 1.00

01:05:17.400 male member of the Taliban to prison so

01:05:19.300 they're after them and we everybody who

01:05:21.740 believes in justice has to fight back so

01:05:23.560 that's been my cause for the last few

01:05:25.160 days oh I love that I want to help you

01:05:27.780 do that let me know if there's anything I

01:05:29.040 can do to help you with that that it's

01:05:31.140 horrifying to me how how quickly and how

01:05:33.420 cavalierly we've discarded people like

01:05:35.920 that and just sort of said oh you know

01:05:37.180 we're running a diplomatic mission now but

01:05:38.860 let's be honest what's Blinken doing to

01:05:40.560 help those women what's anyone in the 0.98

01:05:42.200 administration doing to help the

01:05:43.460 little girls who are now being forced

01:05:45.220 into child marriage after child rape

01:05:47.300 nothing nothing we don't even have 0.53

01:05:48.660 diplomats in Afghanistan now no and

01:05:50.520 they're being trafficked you know some

01:05:51.900 of them are going to the border to

01:05:53.240 Pakistan and they're being picked up in

01:05:54.900 Pakistan by traffickers and being sold 0.97

01:05:57.100 for sex so we have to do something about 0.90

01:05:59.820 this you know most of the world stood by 0.51

01:06:02.200 as six million Jews and many millions of

01:06:04.220 people died in the early 1940s we've

01:06:06.960 learned that lesson you cannot stand

01:06:08.880 idly by whether you're a Christian a Jew

01:06:11.180 or a Muslim or an atheist you have to do

01:06:13.620 something all right well let's talk about

01:06:15.880 the supposed fight for women's rights 0.99

01:06:17.680 over here in the states it's it's bizarre

01:06:20.700 we're very very focused on abortion as a

01:06:23.280 country I mean it's been probably the most

01:06:24.860 consequential cultural issue that we've

01:06:26.480 been dealing with for the past 50 years

01:06:28.140 since Roe v Wade in 73 and it's had

01:06:31.900 massive positive effects on the conservative

01:06:34.380 movement in a way you know galvanizing them

01:06:36.460 and so on though obviously conservatives

01:06:39.300 would say massive negative effects on the

01:06:41.180 country's morality on the on the well-being

01:06:43.640 obviously of our future generations and so

01:06:45.360 on we've get that we get this law out of

01:06:48.700 Texas the Texas Heartbeat Act which for

01:06:50.660 those who haven't been paying attention

01:06:51.860 nearly all Republican lawmakers signed on

01:06:54.480 to it as authors or sponsors and only one

01:06:57.380 Democrat sponsor and it was signed in a law

01:06:59.040 by Governor Abbott who has we believe

01:07:01.140 presidential ambitions in 24 it makes

01:07:03.860 Texas the most restrictive in the nation

01:07:05.400 for access to abortion it bans most abortions

01:07:07.440 after about six weeks of pregnancy when you

01:07:09.140 see a heartbeat fetal heartbeat no exception

01:07:11.360 for rape or incest permits later abortion if

01:07:14.620 the mother's life is endangered and it

01:07:16.640 deputizes private citizens to sue anyone who

01:07:18.840 performs or aids and abets an abortion 0.73

01:07:20.500 but cleverly bars state officials in Texas from

01:07:25.540 actually enforcing the law that's how they're

01:07:27.360 avoiding federal jurisdiction over this they're

01:07:31.140 trying to ban the Supreme Court prevent the

01:07:33.040 Supreme Court from getting involved in so far

01:07:34.680 they've been cleverly successful the

01:07:37.080 plaintiffs need to have a connection to the

01:07:39.160 patient or the clinic if they want to sue and

01:07:42.640 and you can sue you incentivize those lawsuits

01:07:45.400 against those performing or helping with an

01:07:47.400 abortion at ten thousand dollars in reward

01:07:49.700 money okay so this is just a the latest but

01:07:53.320 again the most clever and controversial attempt

01:07:55.820 to get around Roe versus Wade which will come up

01:07:58.500 for review this term in the normal way in the

01:08:01.640 way where you know the both parties are going to

01:08:03.280 argue that it should be overturned it was bad

01:08:04.720 law and so on this is a different way to to crack

01:08:07.960 away at it and the Supreme Court did not

01:08:10.300 decline to hear the hear the case all of the

01:08:12.840 reports I read Alan are basically Supreme Court

01:08:15.500 is basically backing the law they're backing

01:08:17.300 the law they allow it well I don't see it that

01:08:19.880 way I don't I don't see them backing the law in

01:08:22.020 fact they expressed skepticism about its

01:08:23.940 constitutionality so you tell me what the

01:08:26.360 Supreme Court actually did and then we'll get

01:08:27.980 into what you think of the law the Supreme Court

01:08:30.840 did not have the courage to do what it should

01:08:33.080 have done it shouldn't even have breached the

01:08:35.040 abortion issue this is the most dangerously 0.65

01:08:37.640 unconstitutional process for challenging a law

01:08:42.020 that I've seen in the 55 years I've practiced

01:08:44.500 imagine if it was turned now next against gay

01:08:47.300 marriage so the state outlaws gay marriage

01:08:50.320 it's unconstitutional but the state says anybody

01:08:53.020 who wants to challenge a gay marriage just has 1.00

01:08:57.480 to go to court and collect ten thousand

01:08:58.920 dollars what the state has done is deputize

01:09:01.280 ordinary buddinskis who are money hungry to do 0.71

01:09:04.960 the job for them or let's turn it on its on its

01:09:08.280 side and say let's say the progressives who

01:09:11.080 don't care about the law and don't care about

01:09:12.880 due process decide to turn this against the

01:09:15.520 second amendment so they can pass a law in New

01:09:18.260 York or in California saying nobody has the

01:09:21.460 right to have any guns we know we're violating

01:09:23.100 the second amendment nobody has any right to

01:09:24.740 have any guns but the state's not going to

01:09:26.520 enforce it any uh anti-gun person can sue any

01:09:30.400 store any company that sells guns and can get

01:09:33.680 ten thousand dollars for that the process is

01:09:36.960 what's so dangerous imagine if that were used

01:09:40.080 to stop desegregation in the south it could be

01:09:43.100 used to stop anything constitutional and that's

01:09:46.440 what was so disappointing about five justices of

01:09:49.480 the supreme court not stepping in and i think

01:09:52.240 justice sotomayor got it exactly right when

01:09:55.260 she focused on the process not even getting to

01:09:58.620 the abortion issue just the process by which

01:10:01.600 the state is trying to circumvent um mulberry

01:10:05.200 versus madison the supreme court the article

01:10:08.200 three of the constitution it's just undercutting

01:10:11.120 everything that the process of law stands for and

01:10:14.040 i hope that a wiser supreme court will

01:10:16.960 ultimately strike down this statute and tell texas and

01:10:20.620 tell the rest of the states you cannot circumvent the law

01:10:24.200 and the constitution in this way you can call it clever i

01:10:27.900 call it devious there's no question that that's what

01:10:30.400 they're trying to do they're trying to circumvent roe

01:10:32.520 versus wade i mean there's no no question about that but i

01:10:34.960 would say you know the the people who i've heard defending

01:10:37.720 this and i and to be honest there haven't been that

01:10:39.540 many i mean to be perfectly honest even legal scholars who

01:10:42.140 are from the federalist society i've heard quietly saying

01:10:44.420 even donald even donald trump even donald trump has not

01:10:48.100 really done what one might have expected him to do

01:10:51.720 he's remained relatively quiet on this because it's indefensible

01:10:55.760 it's indefensible and and just as a political matter it's a slippery slope as

01:10:59.600 you point out there are a lot of trusted

01:11:01.020 valued rights on the right half of the country like gun rights as you point out

01:11:05.220 that they don't want states like new york or california messing with

01:11:08.480 and the fact that gun rights are enshrined specifically in the constitution

01:11:13.120 may not be of much comfort to people if this is a precedent one can follow

01:11:17.960 what do you make of i've heard some say well it's a little different with gun

01:11:21.360 rights because unlike abortion and this so-called privacy right on which it's

01:11:25.020 based gun rights are specifically spelled out in the constitution you know

01:11:29.000 they're right there in the second amendment whereas the privacy right from

01:11:31.920 the second amendment well i'm just saying but the second amendment talks about

01:11:35.540 the right to bear arms um i agree whereas privacy and abortion is

01:11:40.240 judge made law it is but so is heller uh so is the decision to undo 200 years of

01:11:48.300 precedent that said the second amendment doesn't

01:11:50.720 convey a personal right to own guns i'm not quarreling with that but the

01:11:55.180 constitution is very rarely clear it's clear you can't run for president unless

01:11:59.600 you're 35 years old but the second amendment isn't so clear uh and the

01:12:04.560 right many of our most fundamental rights

01:12:06.840 derive from other amendments the fourth amendment right to privacy

01:12:10.800 so i don't see the distinction between gun rights

01:12:14.360 and uh abortion rights uh both are controversial

01:12:17.700 brown versus board of education there's nothing in the constitution that says

01:12:22.460 that separate but equal is not permissible that's judge made law

01:12:26.840 and do you do you see roe v wade what's your opinion on roe v wade

01:12:31.160 because i mean i know a lot of even democrat scholars will say that's a bs

01:12:34.820 opinion when it first came out i said it was not necessarily justified by the

01:12:41.020 text of the constitution that it would have been better

01:12:42.940 for women i'm a strong supporter of women's right to choose abortion

01:12:46.420 if it had been left to state legislatures and we hadn't politicized the issue

01:12:50.480 and turned it into something that strengthened the conservative movement remember

01:12:54.220 we're the only country in the western world that is focused on abortion

01:12:58.160 ireland has permitted it uh italy the most catholic countries in the world

01:13:03.320 now permit uh abortion only the united states uh it still remains uh an issue so

01:13:10.440 whatever you think of roe v wade there were scholars also who criticized the

01:13:14.220 the rationale of brown versus board of education herbert wexler the great

01:13:18.280 constitutional scholar many many others did nobody would dream

01:13:21.860 now of reversing a 1954 decision and nobody should think about reversing a

01:13:26.980 1973 decision whatever you may think of it originally

01:13:30.720 marbury versus madison was very very very very controversial at the time it was

01:13:36.800 rendered but precedent has its role in constitutional

01:13:40.460 adjudication stand by what you have said okay so on that front

01:13:44.240 given that given that the court and i i will say i disagree with you that the

01:13:48.080 court did the wrong thing in punting on this because i do think

01:13:50.360 it was a weird circumstance they were being asked to enjoin something where

01:13:54.080 enjoin a judge basically but no one had actually sued if somebody had sued under

01:13:59.140 the law and said i'm you owe me ten thousand dollars for driving somebody to an

01:14:02.580 abortion clinic bingo you're on it's there's a there's a judiciable

01:14:06.220 judiciable whatever issue and uh justiciable and uh they would have taken that

01:14:11.540 case i believe it was just that they were like there's no one here

01:14:14.260 real who's been sued and we don't really have a live case in front of i think

01:14:17.760 if it if and when it gets back up to them i do think they're going to decide

01:14:20.880 it against texas but let me just ask you i hope so yeah because i want to get to

01:14:24.440 larry david but i want to ask you about the the bigger row case coming up to the

01:14:27.900 supreme court this term and ask you if you think there because

01:14:31.440 there is an adherence to precedent even amongst conservatives as a general rule

01:14:35.060 but now we've got a 6-3 split uh roberts voted with the liberals on this

01:14:39.600 this local texas uh case that we just talked about

01:14:42.400 but uh so let's say it's even 5-4 if roberts you can assume he's with the

01:14:46.580 democrats are the more liberal justices do you think that there are the votes on

01:14:50.160 the supreme court right now to overturn roe

01:14:52.040 well nobody knows for sure but justice kavanaugh has generally followed on the

01:14:57.540 issue of precedent uh roberts they were colleagues of course on the

01:15:01.220 dc circuit together and and gorsuch may i i think the other side has two

01:15:06.920 definite votes alito and thomas but i think the others are up for

01:15:11.560 grab so i i can imagine a decision that says look

01:15:15.140 we many of us have doubts about roe versus wade but precedent has its call

01:15:19.740 and so we're not going to allow texas unilaterally

01:15:23.100 to undo a constitutional precedent um now remember the case is mississippi

01:15:27.800 and it uh doesn't involve six weeks it involves

01:15:31.100 more than that so there's some way of actually uh coming to a decision which

01:15:36.820 gives both sides a little bit they may compromise we may see a process begin

01:15:41.900 which will ultimately result in what texas wants but i don't think it's going

01:15:46.640 to do it this year and just to remind folks if

01:15:49.280 the supreme court were to find roe versus wade

01:15:51.600 unconstitutional that doesn't automatically outlaw abortion it would be it 0.99

01:15:55.680 would revert to the states and it would be a state-by-state matter which is

01:15:58.600 still controversial but just to be clear and there could be a federal statute

01:16:01.880 remember that the biden administration is thinking of introducing a federal

01:16:04.960 statute saying that abortion is an interstate matter because people travel

01:16:08.900 from state to state to get it so we hereby declare as a matter of

01:16:12.620 legislative not constitutional that abortion is permitted that's what

01:16:16.780 scalia was saying all along he was saying if you if you want abortion to be

01:16:19.740 legal he's like don't come to the nine judges in robes and ask them to find

01:16:22.700 something a constitution that wasn't there you go to the legislature you go to

01:16:25.560 the lawmakers make them pass a law or constitutional amendment okay that's

01:16:28.780 let's table that because i don't have that much time and i've got to hear

01:16:31.340 about larry david you're getting harassed on martha's vineyard again why well it's

01:16:37.160 more than harassed they canceled me at the library every year i speak there they

01:16:41.340 canceled me at the book fair i'm i've written more books than anybody in

01:16:45.240 chilmark history they canceled me at the jewish center oh come on because they made 1.00

01:16:51.280 this terrible i made this terrible mistake of doing what john adams did uh and

01:16:56.260 that is defending somebody uh for an unconstitutional act even though i voted

01:17:01.140 against them yes i defended the constitution on behalf of donald trump i'm very proud that

01:17:06.840 i did that i helped defeat an unconstitutional impeachment and now larry david comes up to

01:17:12.200 me on the porch of the chilmark store and starts screaming at me i'm disgusting he saw

01:17:16.500 me put my hand around the secretary of state mike pompeo of course he was my former

01:17:23.000 student i'm very proud of what mike pompeo helped to do with the abraham accords with

01:17:27.980 the peace rollout in the middle east with recognition of jerusalem in the golon heights

01:17:32.740 i played a role in all those and i worked in tandem with pompeo but the small-minded zealots

01:17:39.060 of chilmark who think they know everything led by larry david cannot tolerate dissent and it's

01:17:46.380 the larry davids of the world that may cause the democrats the next two elections how could

01:17:51.760 larry david cause the democrats the elections i think people are sick and tired of canceled

01:17:56.740 culture they're sick and tired of larry david and others like them on the extreme left telling

01:18:02.360 people what they can think what they can say and what they can do these are people with totalitarian

01:18:07.660 minds they think they know the truth with a capital t and a capital t therefore there's no need for

01:18:13.760 dissent there's no need for due process and there's no need for liberty of those who disagree with

01:18:19.640 either agree with us or goodbye that's the attitude of larry david that's the attitude of

01:18:24.540 the small-minded people of chilmark and that's the attitude i have been fighting against all my life

01:18:29.200 i started fighting against in college against mccarthyism and now i'm going to continue to

01:18:33.840 fight against the mccarthyism of the hard left you have i mean you you if people don't doubt you they

01:18:38.620 should listen to our very first interview together on this podcast where we went through a lot of your

01:18:41.780 cases it's not like you were a huge believer in oj simpson or necessarily klaus von beulow you're you're a

01:18:47.620 lawyer lawyers represent causes they defend the constitution they represent the law there's a

01:18:53.060 place for them in our country and donald trump won that case um but you know the only the only the

01:18:58.540 only other two cases i've ever done politically like this i represented alan krantz the democratic

01:19:03.100 senator on the floor of the senate i helped to represent bill clinton a democrat i i've had six or

01:19:08.660 seven other cases in courts representing politicians all of them democrats yes finally the principles that i

01:19:16.120 believe in happened to come down on the side of a republican i voted against and one of the small

01:19:21.760 minded people on the vineyard a doctor once said to me i can never talk to a republican i mean that's

01:19:27.600 the kind of intolerance that's like ben affleck you won't you won't act across from a republican

01:19:32.200 debate yeah wait wait you gotta tell you so but i gotta ask you this can you tell us what you did

01:19:37.240 with larry david because this is the best part of the story what'd you do with your shirt

01:19:40.080 well i was wearing a shirt that i was going to give my friend whose kid just got it to harvard

01:19:45.460 and he never got it to harvard and it said harvard law just kidding but under that shirt i had a shirt 0.91

01:19:50.400 my wife had made for me saying it's the constitution stupid so i took off my top shirt and i showed larry 0.99

01:19:57.040 david it's the constitution stupid i didn't say a word but he walked away screaming and yelling his face 1.00

01:20:03.240 turned red i thought he was gonna have a stroke he said you're disgusting i could never talk to you 1.00

01:20:07.920 because i saw your arm around uh mike pompeo you and all those people you're disgusting i mean that's 0.99

01:20:14.140 the attitude that those folks have small-minded intolerant people americans won't stand for that 0.88

01:20:22.500 they're not going to stand for that unless the democratic party disassociates itself from the

01:20:27.720 extreme left the intolerant extreme left they're going to start losing yeah that's right i mean

01:20:33.920 donald trump he was impeached but he was not uh convicted and you know you stood up for your

01:20:39.000 principles irrespective of whether you voted for that candidate which you've been very open about

01:20:44.060 the fact you haven't now and always a pleasure we'll continue to talk good luck on your new show

01:20:48.140 thank you thank you sir up next i'm going to do something alan dershowitz has done on his podcast

01:20:52.100 many times which is take listener calls for the very first time ever in my case what could possibly go

01:20:57.940 wrong if you have a question call us now this is it 833-44-MEGYN that's 833-446-3496 that's next

01:21:09.180 welcome back everyone to the megan kelly show we're taking your calls today at 833-44-MEGYN

01:21:19.700 that's 833-446-3496 and we're also going to be answering some of our our listener mail our viewer

01:21:29.140 mail um in a segment we call asked and answered that is where our listeners submit questions

01:21:34.140 via email to questions at devilmaycaremedia.com or sometimes they submit the questions on any of

01:21:41.400 our social media accounts instagram twitter facebook etc and for this portion of the program

01:21:46.300 my executive producer steve krakauer joins me steve what's happening how do you feel like we're

01:21:50.640 doing so far hey i think it was i think it was great i'm feeling i'm feeling great and i mean and

01:21:55.180 because of our launch day here we we made a full call out on on questions at devilmaycaremedia.com

01:22:01.060 all of our social media accounts today's first question comes to us from lily cooper from instagram

01:22:06.260 and she has an interesting question she wants to know what tips do you have for dating in a world of

01:22:11.720 online dating kind of a new area here okay well lily i confess i'm such an old hag i've never done

01:22:18.160 online dating i met my husband before and my first husband if that matter before that was really a

01:22:23.220 thing uh but i would say in general when it comes to online dating keep it short keep keep the first

01:22:29.600 date short lest you need to pull the rip card and get the hell out of there because you know it's not 0.51

01:22:34.260 like being set up with somebody who a friend is vouching for and so on so if it's just you and

01:22:39.240 somebody you met briefly online you don't know if the picture is real you don't know if this is

01:22:43.060 actually a good person or someone who just knows how to market an online profile keep it short keep

01:22:48.140 it in a public space and do what i did when i uh first met my husband which is have a friend nearby

01:22:54.920 just in case right just in case things go south little did i know i was meeting you know the love

01:22:59.760 of my life um the other thing i would say just in terms of dating in general is um i think too many

01:23:06.200 women spend the first couple of weeks couple of months what have you just trying to figure out 1.00

01:23:11.180 maybe men do this too just trying to figure out what the other person wants and then trying to be

01:23:15.020 that or at least lead the person to believe that they are that and then they decide then the person

01:23:20.040 doing the pretending will decide whether they're into the relationship or not and that's totally

01:23:24.960 bass backwards right it's that's not the way to go after it you you should completely be honest

01:23:29.880 about who you are i mean you don't have to show all your sort of warts and all as they say but

01:23:33.640 i think you really need to be as true to who you are as possible because they're going to discover

01:23:40.180 the real you eventually and it's better that they come in eyes open and i also think that every time

01:23:46.660 you find yourself obsessing over your new relationship or the person you're dating you've

01:23:52.140 got to remind yourself just like just like you tell your dog no when he gets up on the counter

01:23:56.340 you know with his paws that's what my puppy's doing every time um you've got to remind yourself

01:24:01.740 you're focused on the wrong person you every bit of energy you spend obsessing about a relationship

01:24:06.560 needs to be re-channeled into obsessing about how to improve your own life how to make yourself

01:24:11.560 interesting how to make yourself interested how to learn how to play an instrument how to spend

01:24:17.500 your time better as opposed to sitting on the couch vegging right take every single one of those

01:24:21.820 moments and reinvest it from how do i tantalize the other person into how do i tantalize

01:24:28.900 myself how do i make my own life better and it has the wonderful added benefit of then making you

01:24:33.820 more attractive so everything everything works all right so keep it short and uh tantalize yourself

01:24:39.660 which will make uh tantalizing him or her a self-fulfilling prophecy what do you think steve

01:24:45.480 wait before we go on to the viewer questions can i just ask you so i feel like you kind of blew me off

01:24:49.960 on how it's going i feel like everything's been smooth except laura's laura logan's mic fell off but

01:24:54.960 we fixed that kind of fucked up that one soundbite that played out of nowhere um other than that i 0.87

01:25:00.340 feel like we're doing okay i think so you know this is day one of a very different way of doing

01:25:04.660 the megan kelly show um at the same time i think people that have been listening for almost a year

01:25:09.160 now on all their podcast platforms will find it uh very similar which i think is the goal yeah well

01:25:14.020 we have more guests in this podcast and this radio show because it's our first and we had a lot we

01:25:18.860 wanted to cover normally we only have like one big guest or two two guests so it's been

01:25:23.040 chock full it's been uh 20 pounds of potatoes in a 10 pound bag as our old pal jay sirocco used to

01:25:28.200 say at fox news all right so um i guess our first caller i'm told is paul in new york this is exciting

01:25:36.060 paul you're my very first caller here on the megan kelly show are you with me i am honored megan yes

01:25:40.620 oh i'm so happy to talk to you this is so fun oh i miss i miss you on tv but we'll take any any way

01:25:45.860 we can get you thank you i'm honored that you're still with me yeah congratulations on your show i'll be

01:25:52.140 a loyal listener thank you very much so what's on your mind so i just wanted to talk about i i heard

01:25:59.360 you curse i won't do it but uh you know but biden's ratings biden's ratings i don't understand how they're

01:26:06.120 going up i mean it almost seems like this nation is self-destructing on autopilot you know and and

01:26:12.080 and it's allowed to be being done it's really effed up i mean i just don't understand what's it going to

01:26:17.040 take another 9 11 event for for them to take any accountability i mean from the very top of uh to

01:26:24.100 president biden all the way down to these jackass generals you know that it was a state department

01:26:29.880 they're taking credit for something they didn't even do i mean is this an alternate reality i don't i

01:26:34.660 don't get it well i think it's a combination of things right it's like he soared into office and had

01:26:39.660 big numbers because he was not named donald trump and that's really all you needed to do not be

01:26:44.540 donald trump as we saw during the campaign you can stay in your basement and win a presidential

01:26:48.480 election just as long as you're not donald trump and he continued that for a while and then and then

01:26:53.360 came the drunken spending you know the drunken sailor spending and just one thing after the other

01:26:58.720 that the american people didn't ask for you know the the radical agenda when it came to social issues

01:27:03.700 when it came to um the reversal of men's rights on college campuses and when it came to all of the

01:27:09.700 critical race theory and so on and people i think we're sitting back saying we didn't elect that

01:27:14.120 what that we didn't elect any of that and i think that's why it's so everything fell away so quickly

01:27:20.600 after afghanistan not to mention you tell me paul but i feel like he promised us that uh he was going

01:27:27.020 to get covid under control and it's not to blame him for covid but he is the one who said he was going

01:27:31.460 to get under control and it's far from under control so here i i completely get everything you're

01:27:36.640 saying so like what what is wrong with the republicans i know that we're not we're not activists we're not

01:27:41.140 you know not the democrats i don't want to label the parties but i mean you have to go into the

01:27:45.320 parties but you know i i just feel that the right-minded people you know if you want to call

01:27:52.460 them republicans whatever uh we're not activists you know we're not out there with signs you know

01:27:58.480 black lives matter come on give me a give me a break um and i feel like our country is just 0.75

01:28:04.220 self-destructing and we don't have enough you know willpower in the republican party or you know

01:28:11.260 uh independence whatever and i think you can't don't focus on the republican party i know i mean

01:28:17.120 as you know from listening to me at all i i don't like partisan jerseys that's all bs they don't deserve

01:28:22.640 your loyalty they don't um they they don't fight they're so afraid they're so weak-kneed not all of

01:28:28.620 them but many maybe most it's it and this isn't about dems versus republicans it's about reason

01:28:34.940 versus unreason and i do think that most people are just living their lives having a good time and

01:28:39.340 trying to take care of their kids and put money on or make money and put food on the table so they're

01:28:44.480 starting now to pay attention and i do think they're ready to fight this battle that they're

01:28:48.620 going to get more involved in these culture wars because they're becoming more consequential and

01:28:53.060 they're being thrust in your face in a way they never have before so i think that this is a

01:28:57.560 winnable battle and those woke loud annoying 10 of the public of the population are going to be

01:29:04.000 forced to stand down or they're just going to lose because the rational not even middle 90 is starting

01:29:10.240 to pay more attention okay let's get to our next caller which is timothy timothy is on the line with

01:29:15.040 us timothy how you doing i'm fine megan it's cardinal dolan here and do i appreciate the invitation

01:29:20.300 and welcome welcome welcome to to the catholic channel it's good you know i was getting so i was

01:29:27.440 getting so tired of having a uh being the only irishman on the channel so it is really good to

01:29:34.120 have you so cardinal dolan i am so excited this is a surprise and a thrill i love you so much and

01:29:41.340 i'm such an admirer with the fact that you would call me on my first date you know can i just tell

01:29:45.900 people a nice story about you this is who cardinal dolan is he doesn't know me that well he came on my

01:29:51.620 show a couple times at nbc um and then i had an unfortunate ending in nbc and i was home licking

01:29:57.200 my wounds feeling sorry for myself and guess who sent me the most beautiful handwritten kind supportive

01:30:04.160 note just reaching out to me to offer love and support you cardinal dolan i was so it was amazing i was

01:30:11.620 so touched that you could that you would remember that means a lot to me and thanks for not mentioning

01:30:16.760 that i also asked you to borrow some money that i we don't have to bring that up but i'm just glad

01:30:22.240 you're you're a fellow here on on the on the satellite radio it's good to have you i admired you so

01:30:28.760 much i think i think i was with you you were kind enough to invite me on a show on good friday of all

01:30:34.640 times but it turned into a very beautiful you remember that you had an audience there and it turned

01:30:39.920 into a real kind of thoughtful reflective discussion of the cross and suffering in the world and what

01:30:47.200 good friday meant and boy i thought heck this was better than being at saint patrick's i probably had

01:30:52.480 more listeners and more viewers and with with nice people here so we go back and i hope we stay together

01:30:59.300 lots of love and thank you so much and thanks for joining us today tomorrow larry elder and caitlin

01:31:04.340 jenner that'll be fun uh in advance of this california recall effort and don't forget today's

01:31:09.460 show will be available this afternoon on any podcast platform for free just search the megan kelly show and

01:31:15.820 we will also be posting a video version to youtube.com slash megan kelly thanks for listening we'll see you

01:31:22.260 tomorrow

The Megyn Kelly Show - September 07, 2021

Afghanistan, Abortion, and COVID, with Lara Logan, Charles C.W. Cooke, and Alan Dershowitz ｜ Ep. 154

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