The Megyn Kelly Show - September 09, 2026


ALARMING Comments From Female Lindsay Clancy Jurors, Shock Elizabeth Holmes Doc, and Frank Turek on One Year Since Charlie Kirk | Ep. 1394


Episode Stats


Length

1 hour and 43 minutes

Words per minute

164.12

Word count

17,006

Sentence count

1,143

Harmful content

Misogyny

52

sentences flagged

Toxicity

52

sentences flagged

Hate speech

15

sentences flagged


Transcript

Transcript generated with Whisper (turbo).
Misogyny classifications generated with MilaNLProc/bert-base-uncased-ear-misogyny .
Toxicity classifications generated with s-nlp/roberta_toxicity_classifier .
Hate speech classifications generated with facebook/roberta-hate-speech-dynabench-r4-target .
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00:01:22.220 out. Welcome to The Megyn Kelly Show, live on Sirius XM channel 111 every weekday at
00:01:28.320 New East. Hey, everyone. I'm Megyn Kelly. Welcome to The Megyn Kelly Show, and happy Wednesday.
00:01:39.240 We have a very, very strong program for you today. There's a lot going on.
00:01:43.160 Frank Turek's going to be here. He was, of course, a dear, dear friend of Charlie's.
00:01:47.760 He talks in the book, writes in the book about what it's like to mentor someone who you know
00:01:51.720 is smarter than you. He was so close with Charlie and they went on long, long walks together and he
00:02:00.180 helped educate Charlie on Christian apologetics and arm Charlie with information before he went
00:02:07.580 out on these campus tours where Charlie would perform so brilliantly on the subject of
00:02:12.520 Christianity in large part because of Frank. He's got a new book out today and he's going to come
00:02:17.720 talk to us a bit about it. First, however, jurors from the Lindsay Clancy trial are speaking out.
00:02:23.320 Okay, I've got to start with this. We're still a couple months out, but the midterms are fast
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00:03:08.980 info kit and some solid information. The midterms will be here before you know it. Text MK to
00:03:14.400 nine, eight, nine, eight, nine, eight. Now you remember last week when we were having an argument
00:03:19.540 with the MK true crime panels, you know, um, everybody, they were all there and we were
00:03:25.160 arguing about, okay, it's 11 to one. We think, which way do we think it was 11 to one? Could
00:03:30.300 it be that the 11 are on the side of the prosecution and the one is on Lindsay Clancy's
00:03:35.420 side? Janice Bilbo and I kept hope alive on that front. Phil Holloway was saying, I don't think so.
00:03:42.940 No, I think it's 11 for Lindsay. And boy, was he right. We're John and I so off. We gave this jury
00:03:54.660 way too much credit, way too much credit. In my defense and John's too, we weren't able to see
00:04:02.960 the jurors. Like if I had seen even just these three, I think I would have known from the start
00:04:09.160 where this is going, as would you. It's incredible. Three of them sat down with this
00:04:16.340 woke Boston journalist who's got her pronouns in her bio and was on the governor's board of 0.81
00:04:24.860 the human rights campaign, which of course is the far left LGBTQ brigade that's been shaming
00:04:31.900 corporations for how woke they aren't and trying to get them to be even more woke-ified
00:04:38.780 for the past several years.
00:04:41.140 In any event, this woman from NBC Boston,
00:04:44.220 she sat down with these three female jurors 0.93
00:04:46.140 and these female jurors are straight out of your nightmares 1.00
00:04:49.840 for what kind of juror might wind up at the Lindsey Clancy 0.97
00:04:53.920 or any other trial, to be honest.
00:04:57.660 I mean, I think most of us thinking people were horrified
00:05:01.340 when we heard them speak.
00:05:03.720 I mean, genuinely horrified.
00:05:05.840 One soundbite was worse than the next,
00:05:07.780 including the foreperson um and they all went after the one male holdout juror they were
00:05:17.580 disgusted with this guy i mean they didn't even wait until lindsey clancy was wheeled back into
00:05:23.960 the mental facility before they started attacking this guy publicly and wait until you hear why
00:05:31.720 like there are reasons okay watch this one he was very arrogant he really did not take anything that
00:05:40.360 anybody said the nurses he he tried to ask a question about the medications and we went back
00:05:48.880 to the report from south shore hospital we had the toxicology report we could see exactly the
00:05:55.480 amounts the nurses in the room spoke to that and talked to that there were nurses on the jury yes
00:06:02.980 and they spoke to that that specific thing that was a question that he had
00:06:08.560 and he just completely disregarded the information that they gave him i mean he had reasonable doubt
00:06:15.640 he admitted he had reasonable doubt after we watched that video of the interview i think
00:06:20.880 that's when it was he admitted he had reasonable doubt and i started filling out the forms i was
00:06:27.180 so excited i actually there were three forms i had to fill out and i started filling them out i wrote
00:06:33.880 my signature on each one and then he said but i'm still not gonna say that she's not guilty
00:06:40.760 by reason of insanity okay they're mad because he was arrogant unlike you ladies who seem very 0.99
00:06:50.240 humble and open minded to differences of opinion. By the way, just that was jury foreperson Ronnie
00:06:57.280 Clark there at the end, retired fifth grade special needs teacher, appearing to try to
00:07:02.000 complete the jury verdict for him without taking a final vote. She was already she was so excited
00:07:06.100 to find her not guilty. What do you mean? He rained on her parade. He pissed all over her pen
00:07:12.000 as she was excitedly writing down not guilty. And now she's mad. Also, we had juror Paula Devlin
00:07:18.220 there who worked for government contractors, saying the jury was using analysis by the nurses
00:07:24.880 on the jury that was calling on their own expertise, and it was not part of the evidence
00:07:31.360 or testimony presented at the trial. Well, this is a potential problem, madam. This is not something
00:07:37.980 you should be boasting about to some journalist. As the Federalist's Sean Davis pointed out on X,
00:07:43.920 this may have been in violation of Judge William Sullivan's jury instructions.
00:07:48.360 Here is what the judge told them before they started deliberating. Watch.
00:07:53.260 You are not to decide this case based on anything you may have read or heard outside of this
00:07:58.880 courtroom. So if somebody has a question in that jury room, you are not allowed to try and answer
00:08:07.020 it by anything other than through the exhibits and evidence you've heard. All right. We said,
00:08:12.740 So I just kind of want to make that real clear.
00:08:16.440 OK, so going in there and pretending you are a mini expert as a nurse is really not in the spirit of those jury instructions.
00:08:27.040 Now, everybody brings in their life experience and that's normal.
00:08:30.740 But acting as a little mini expert to interpret the toxicology report for the lone holdout juror and then to get pissed off that he's not listening.
00:08:40.140 That's really what that was.
00:08:41.760 OK, so you could argue about whether it was appropriate for them to be trying to be the little mini experts in there, you know, conducting their own little experiments on the toxicology report based on whatever knowledge they have.
00:08:54.580 But this holdout jurors decision to reject that as not the expertise he was going to base a life or death decision on was entirely appropriate.
00:09:06.960 And these two people are too clueless to understand that.
00:09:10.360 They're actually openly bitching about it, saying, like, he was arrogant because he didn't accept our expertise.
00:09:17.920 No one called you as experts.
00:09:19.800 You were there as laypeople, citizen, jurors.
00:09:24.780 And there was more.
00:09:26.360 There was more about this woman was the worst. 0.98
00:09:28.900 I mean, it's tough to pick, but I think this woman, Kelly Farina, a retired chef, was the worst of the three. 1.00
00:09:37.460 Everything she said was annoying.
00:09:38.840 And in particular, just listen, this thing went viral yesterday for obvious reasons. 1.00
00:09:45.060 But think how stupid you'd have to be to say this on camera and not think it was going to cause a stir. 0.99
00:09:53.040 Listen. 1.00
00:09:54.280 We read to him on numerous occasions the definition of reasonable doubt from Judge Sullivan's instruction.
00:10:02.640 He actually said one day in the end, well, why don't we have the judge come in and read it again?
00:10:07.180 And we were like, no, we have it in front of us.
00:10:11.480 But he had the hardest time getting off the fact that Lindsay viciously killed her children.
00:10:17.720 Diddy, was that difficult for him?
00:10:21.500 Why wasn't it difficult for you?
00:10:25.480 She actually thinks we're going to hear that sentence and be on her side, not his. 0.98
00:10:32.160 And we're going to say, oh, this unreasonable prick. 0.98
00:10:34.760 He had a really difficult time getting off the fact that she viciously killed her children. 0.99
00:10:42.120 Yeah.
00:10:42.960 Yeah.
00:10:43.360 Same.
00:10:45.000 Like, I guess there's some woke, liberal, annoying contingent that is listening to this
00:10:51.280 saying, yeah, that's that pisses me off.
00:10:54.020 I think the vast majority of normies out there is on the side of the man.
00:10:58.800 Yes, we also had a really difficult time getting past the fact that she viciously killed her children.
00:11:06.460 Yes, that's a normal human reaction to what she did.
00:11:11.100 The jurors, they also were very critical of the prosecution.
00:11:15.620 And you got to hear why.
00:11:18.340 All right.
00:11:18.740 It wasn't like they didn't persuade me that she knew what she was doing.
00:11:24.560 It wasn't that.
00:11:26.080 You'll hear what it was.
00:11:27.160 Let's listen to a few sound bites here.
00:11:28.800 I just found it to be harsh, Sue, very, very harsh.
00:11:32.180 We weren't trying to figure out she murdered the children.
00:11:35.000 She did, and she's admitting that.
00:11:37.960 We're trying to figure out, did she know right from wrong at that time?
00:11:42.300 And with everybody saying she loved her children so much,
00:11:46.300 and everything proved she loved her children,
00:11:49.460 from her journals to her mother-in-law,
00:11:54.540 everything proved that she loved her children.
00:11:57.300 so she had to have snapped okay that snapped doesn't it doesn't advance the discussion at all
00:12:04.400 that was the four person ronnie carlson um and then back to kelly farina our favorite
00:12:10.560 who had this to say about the prosecution the fact that they had no character witnesses
00:12:19.200 to in regard to lindsey of being a bad mother i mean right out of the gate it's like
00:12:26.360 you're presenting all these medical professionals but nobody's presenting and for the prosecution
00:12:32.780 a woman and a mother of three children so i found it to be biased right out of the gate i i found
00:12:40.320 them also to be kind of unprofessional and um just without a heart and and for me that
00:12:48.400 But right away, I was like, OK, where is this going?
00:12:52.620 Right from statement one, there is no compassion in this courtroom right now, which I guess is expected of a prosecution.
00:13:03.280 But I thought it was very cold.
00:13:06.220 Oh, my God.
00:13:08.240 I mean, you failed prosecution.
00:13:10.700 You failed on jury selection.
00:13:12.000 That's what we've seen here.
00:13:13.000 You utterly forget what forget that nonsense about no compassion and no heart.
00:13:17.840 The prosecutor Sprague had compassion for the babies who were murdered.
00:13:23.280 She had a lot of compassion for the three children and was there to represent them. 1.00
00:13:29.520 She was not supposed to be Oprah Winfrey, you fucking idiots. 1.00
00:13:35.940 They were biased because they didn't call character witnesses to tell us that Lindsey Clancy is a bad mom. 1.00
00:13:45.540 I think they thought the corpses of her children would be proof enough. 1.00
00:13:51.400 You idiot. 1.00
00:13:53.620 I like this is unbelievable. 1.00
00:13:55.820 The prosecution failed so terribly on jury instruction.
00:14:00.800 That's where this case was clearly lost.
00:14:03.240 Clearly lost.
00:14:04.300 I mean, I don't know how these people made it on.
00:14:07.120 Like there were questions.
00:14:08.780 A lot of us had questions about the fact that there were nine women on the jury. 0.81
00:14:12.100 You know, I mean, the women, they tend to be tender hearts.
00:14:14.620 Their empathy gets exploited their entire lives so that it stays super alive and they can be super woke when they grow into full grown women, except when it comes to the unborn.
00:14:23.260 You're not allowed to have any empathy for them.
00:14:25.200 And as it turns out in Massachusetts for the born but not yet adult children, this is the most absurd.
00:14:35.440 She was unprofessional and biased because she didn't call a character witness telling everybody that Lindsay Clancy was a bad mom.
00:14:42.900 I mean, you figure that out. I can't figure it out. She didn't have compassion for Lindsay Clancy, the murderer who she was trying to convince the jury should be locked up behind bars.
00:14:53.160 Sister, this is a McDonald's. What are you what are you talking about? You are not on the set of Oprah.
00:15:01.220 The three jurors who spoke to NBC Boston, you're not going to be surprised to learn, had a much more favorable view.
00:15:08.300 I mean, honestly, I think they had the hots for Lindsey Clancy's defense lawyer, Kevin Reddington.
00:15:13.340 Watch.
00:15:14.480 His whole demeanor was funny.
00:15:20.920 And there was one time, whatever he said, I don't know, but I went.
00:15:26.180 He was entertaining, which was good because we needed some of that.
00:15:30.560 And arrogant at the same time.
00:15:33.180 Yes. 1.00
00:15:34.560 Arrogant and entertaining. 0.95
00:15:36.400 he would go back and forth between that yeah but compassionate yes through his with his 0.91
00:15:42.000 arrogance his compassion towards lindsey was amazing
00:15:47.000 entertaining that's his job sure and the one woman the long blonde hair says and and arrogant 0.64
00:15:57.180 arrogant arrogant through his compassion what yeah we have a bunch of no nothings
00:16:04.800 sitting in this jury, on this jury, but so compassionate toward Lindsay. I mean, 0.93
00:16:11.160 Kevin Reddington played them like a fiddle, like good for him. Total win for him in that way. Just
00:16:16.680 completely had them eating out of his hand. You are so stupid. You don't realize how you've been 1.00
00:16:21.720 so manipulated. You're so dumb. You didn't even realize this was all a manipulation of you 1.00
00:16:27.440 know nothings. But okay, you feel good about yourself. Great. CBS Boston also spoke, this is
00:16:35.400 CBS, that was NBC. CBS also spoke to a juror, juror number five, a female who wanted to remain
00:16:41.580 anonymous, who had a different take on what happened with the holdout juror. Listen.
00:16:46.840 I think the majority of the people on, it doesn't matter what side it was on,
00:16:52.220 was very firm in their like stance and their their beliefs kind of from the beginning um
00:16:59.800 you know the standalone juror was not the only one that was unwilling to to see things from the
00:17:06.120 other side um so i'm gonna kind of defend that individual in a sense um there were some big
00:17:13.440 personalities in that room but at the end of the day i feel like
00:17:17.040 it just came down to an inability to kind of move past your convictions and you know even
00:17:27.220 after that dynamite charge to be unable to you know self-analyze yourself and be like okay am
00:17:35.540 i missing something am i failing to acknowledge or give this a weight or something like this doubt
00:17:41.020 weight that it needs. That person, the majority of the room was trying to kind of sway that person
00:17:47.280 from the very beginning. And he wasn't swayable. Tough shit. That's what it means to be on a jury.
00:17:54.680 He had an inability to move past his convictions. Why should you move past your convictions
00:18:00.540 when you hold a person's freedom in your hands? Isn't that the moment that you really should
00:18:08.960 hold on to your convictions. I mean, this is so absurd. If the shoe were on the other foot,
00:18:12.960 we would see this so clearly. If the holdout had been for a not guilty verdict and everybody else
00:18:19.580 had been for guilty, he should have just moved past his convictions to convict somebody. No,
00:18:26.340 we would all see how absurd that is. Well, the same holds when the shoe was on the other foot.
00:18:30.700 So grow up. This jury need to grow up. And by the way, it's very interesting there. She talks
00:18:35.740 about his doubt and she just talks about doubt, right? When you hear the other three ninnies, 0.98
00:18:42.180 they were over there talking about, it was reasonable. He had reasonable doubt and he 1.00
00:18:45.120 refused to apply it. Well, that's not what the foreperson, the short-haired lady there,
00:18:51.940 said in her juror note to the judge. She didn't say he has reasonable doubt. Even Kevin Reddington
00:18:57.400 didn't say that. And he would have said that if he thought it would have helped him in his papers
00:19:01.500 or before the judge, he just said this holdout juror is saying he has doubt but won't apply the
00:19:07.120 standard of reasonable doubt to it. And now when she sat down with the NBC reporter, she changed
00:19:12.400 it to he had reasonable doubt. Oh, really? You didn't write that in your note? Now you write
00:19:16.500 that because you want to upend what he did? You want to challenge him? You want to say somehow
00:19:20.940 he was so unreasonable? That's not what you wrote. Why didn't you write that? That would have actually
00:19:25.700 really gotten people's eyebrows up. The judge probably would have felt an obligation to voir
00:19:30.580 dear the juror, but that's not what you wrote. And juror five there, you just heard her. She
00:19:35.740 referred to the fact that he had doubt. Again, you're allowed to have doubt. The standard is not
00:19:41.560 must be found guilty beyond any doubt on earth. And therefore you can hold that. It's beyond any
00:19:49.880 reasonable doubt. So if you have a reasonable doubt, you, you may not vote to exonerate the
00:19:57.980 person. This guy clearly had a doubt, but he didn't think it rose to the level of a reasonable
00:20:04.000 one and therefore was ready to vote guilty. That's his prerogative. He wanted to find her guilty
00:20:10.280 because while he had some doubt unexplained about some element of the case, and we have no idea
00:20:15.500 whether it was even a material element, he was persuaded beyond a reasonable doubt that she knew
00:20:23.040 what she was doing. He's entitled to that POV. This post-verdict pile-on by these hens is just
00:20:30.180 so repugnant. This same juror number five here speaking to CBS also said she originally was
00:20:37.640 ready to vote guilty. So where did you come down from the very beginning? What was your vote?
00:20:45.840 So originally I felt as though she was guilty and she was criminally responsible for it.
00:20:53.040 and maybe I still believe that in a certain way. I think that this was a woman who,
00:21:03.380 she was not mentally healthy. She was someone that was in the throes of a significant mental
00:21:08.780 health crisis. So I really just felt like she was so deep in it that she couldn't see her way out.
00:21:16.280 and so this will be the only option okay so she's allowed to want to vote guilty
00:21:25.940 but this other guy is not she was ready to vote guilty and so was he and he held on to that
00:21:34.300 position but she didn't and therefore he's bad he he he needed to be browbeaten um that what
00:21:42.120 she said their tracks with NBC Boston's reporting that four jurors for did not want to go for the
00:21:50.340 not guilty by reason of insanity at when they began the deliberations before three of them
00:21:56.240 were eventually persuaded to join the majority. But this last juror was not. So you had four who
00:22:03.140 were like, I think she's guilty. I'm not ready to go with the not reason or not guilty by reason
00:22:08.260 of insanity. They managed to get three out of the four over to their side, but not the fourth.
00:22:15.180 And now they're just, I guess, going to spend the next few weeks and months trying to paint him
00:22:20.880 like he was some rogue dude who wouldn't apply the law. They clearly, by the way, it was very
00:22:27.140 clear. I said this to you guys last week. What happened was they got the dynamite charge from
00:22:34.020 the judge that basically said, there will never be 12 jurors who know this case better than you,
00:22:38.580 who have more sensitivity toward the facts than you, who could be more fair than you. So please,
00:22:44.920 please, please try to come to a verdict. Okay. And I said on the air last week, obviously they
00:22:50.420 took that and they decided we're just going to turn on the holdout juror and try to find a way
00:22:56.080 to either kick him off or strong arm him into our side. And I said, I believe this argument that he
00:23:03.120 had a doubt, but it's not, he's not applying the reasonable doubt standard properly was just their
00:23:07.880 attempt to browbeat this guy or eject him. And that seems very clear. I mean, you heard in that
00:23:14.000 one woman's soundbite, you know, sure. Well, we had the dynamite charge. And so like we had to 1.00
00:23:17.940 decide what to do. I mean, that's exactly what happened. That's really not what the dynamite
00:23:22.080 charge is supposed to be used for. He wasn't persuaded. You shouldn't be bullied into changing
00:23:29.000 your verdict when you actually don't believe a change of verdict is necessary. Everybody has
00:23:33.760 to live with their conscience. I've served on a jury. I know what I'm talking about.
00:23:38.180 Served on a whole trial for a week. I was hosting America's Newsroom with Bill Hemmer at the time.
00:23:42.200 We talked all about it. Juror number five, just like her other fellow three female jurors, 0.96
00:23:48.660 had some criticism for the prosecution. Watch this. Just tell me a little more about the evolution 0.65
00:23:53.940 for you, because I'm interested because you mentioned how there were so many strong
00:23:58.080 personalities in there but then tell me how you kind of you know you you changed a little bit
00:24:02.880 because at the end of the day there's there is so much doubt you know the prosecution to have
00:24:10.320 a figurative you know smoking gun there was not a single moment throughout that presentation in
00:24:17.040 that case that you could say oh yep 100 i'm certain she did it or that she didn't do it
00:24:23.140 there's, there's too much gray area. Um, and eventually I just felt like the only way to get
00:24:30.400 justice support for Cora Dawson and Callan and Patrick and her parents and everyone else that
00:24:36.740 was closest was to get her to help that she desperately needed. And there's no way she's
00:24:43.180 getting that help in a person. Okay. There's no smoking gun. What? Like, I, I don't really even
00:24:51.820 know what to say about that. Like, this is why the trial lawyers don't like interviewing jurors
00:24:57.640 after the fact, because you find out just how clueless they were. They say bizarre things,
00:25:01.500 dumb things. Remember, Eichlars was telling us some stories last week. This is why. In both 0.98
00:25:06.320 interviews, the jurors described how disturbing it was to hear Lindsay's husband, Patrick Clancy,
00:25:14.020 call 911. That means they're human. That's good. Because like the Daily Mail reporter who was in
00:25:21.200 the courtroom said it was life-changing. I mean, everybody who listened to that 911 call seemed
00:25:25.820 deeply, deeply disturbed by it. And this is something that the public has still not had
00:25:31.080 access to. They have not released the audio, but the jurors did hear it and they were affected.
00:25:36.960 Watch. How did you react to the 911 call? It's something that I will never not hear if I think
00:25:46.240 about it um it was the most horrific thing and when we we heard it again in in the jury room
00:25:54.800 we were we were crying again we were just like my god the desperation the despair and his voice
00:26:01.860 was again it's it's something i i that will stick with me and i felt that it was it was genuine
00:26:11.860 It was absolutely genuine.
00:26:13.300 There's no doubt about that.
00:26:14.760 There were jurors that had to put in their ear pods
00:26:17.460 and just could not hear it again.
00:26:20.700 They had to turn up their music and put it in
00:26:23.540 because it was too much.
00:26:25.880 Once was enough.
00:26:27.360 I will never be the same after a 911 call.
00:26:31.880 After we learned, like after the trial,
00:26:34.280 I saw all conspiracy theories about how Patrick did
00:26:36.920 and that he somehow convinced Lizzie that she had done it when it was really him.
00:26:42.980 And all I could think was that if these people could have heard of that, like, visceral, blood-curling scream,
00:26:55.400 I don't think I could name a single actor or actress that could have performed that, the way he did.
00:27:02.120 enough that he formed it but
00:27:03.840 like
00:27:06.580 I will never be the same after that
00:27:10.100 yeah it was it was horrifying
00:27:11.920 it was horrifying
00:27:13.440 I have no doubt
00:27:16.300 and I'm sure it was
00:27:17.540 even more horrifying
00:27:19.080 to be one of the
00:27:22.100 three children Cora, Dawson
00:27:24.060 or Callum and having
00:27:26.280 your mother 0.93
00:27:27.280 snuff the life right out of you 1.00
00:27:29.700 strangle you to death with an 0.82
00:27:31.960 exercise cord while you struggle to breathe, blood vessels breaking in your eyes, struggling
00:27:37.980 to get any air in your lungs, and having your mother who's so much bigger than you and the
00:27:43.100 one person you've depended on your entire life for sustenance, love, and existence turn on you
00:27:51.840 and try to successfully end your life. I'm sure just as difficult as it was for those jurors to
00:27:59.200 hear that 911 call, it was far more difficult for the children to have their lives snuffed out by
00:28:05.060 their mother. And I don't want to hear any more nonsense from these idiots about where was the 1.00
00:28:12.940 prosecution's compassion. They had compassion for the children. That's who deserved it. 1.00
00:28:20.100 Go back to your cooking and stay there. I hope they never serve again, not on a case with real
00:28:27.480 victims. Um, this was an abomination. These women, I I'm horrified, not surprised, but I'm horrified.
00:28:35.660 Um, and I'm sure the prosecutor is looking at this thinking, good God, I don't know how this
00:28:40.740 affects Tim Cruz's decision about whether to go forward. I mean, is if this is the Massachusetts
00:28:45.800 jury pool, he's effed. What's he going to do? Going to get 12 more like that. Uh, good luck to
00:28:52.600 you? I don't know what he's going to do. If they cut a deal, it needs to be for a significant,
00:29:01.740 like a guaranteed amount of time behind bars. Like maybe, okay, voluntary manslaughter,
00:29:06.260 but it's going to have to be a hefty, hefty sentence. And I just don't know that Kevin
00:29:09.880 Reddington is going to agree to that. I'm sure he wants Tim Cruz to agree to put her in a mental
00:29:15.040 facility, arguing that's where she belonged. I convinced 11 jurors, and I really hope Tim Cruz
00:29:19.560 holds the line and says, no, she's going behind bars. She's going behind jail bars. 0.94
00:29:26.420 That's the only deal we strike or we go back to trial. I hope that's what he does. He seems like
00:29:31.200 a strong man. He knows his jurisdiction better than I do. So if he decides not to do it,
00:29:36.320 we're going to have to realize that this was a man who tried to do what was right and maybe came
00:29:40.660 to a reality that we may have to accept that there's just not enough rational jurors in his
00:29:46.960 town for him to get a conviction on that. I don't know. I'm horrified. I want to keep going.
00:29:52.820 There is now a copycat case, Corey Walsh out of Illinois. And I don't want to get into the
00:30:01.200 details. I told you yesterday, she hanged her two-year-old, forgive me, a little boy.
00:30:08.840 And he died. She had three other children, a baby and two school-age children above him in age. And
00:30:16.360 And then she got into the bathtub, had superficial wounds to her wrists and thighs, nothing life-threatening, and was found by the neighbor because the other children, obviously the school-aged ones, had, I didn't know this yesterday, walked in on the crime.
00:30:36.040 They either saw the mother killing their little brother or they saw him hanging.
00:30:41.780 I'm sorry to just be talking about this in a way that feels casual.
00:30:46.360 these are the facts. And they ran to the neighbors. The neighbor came over and the
00:30:53.080 neighbor found the mother in the bathtub with bloody water. So clearly she had cut herself. 0.52
00:30:58.040 But again, they're saying non-life threatening. I think the mother's fine physically. And
00:31:03.260 it's an obvious copycat. The prosecutors alleged that she had been extremely interested in the
00:31:10.820 Lindsay Clancy case and had been speaking about it on a text thread with friends just hours
00:31:16.080 before this. She decided her two-year-old was the Antichrist and the devil and killed him.
00:31:23.700 And reportedly now when she came to, or I don't know if she was even passed out, but the prosecutors
00:31:29.820 allege that she also believed she had killed her other three children. That was a new fact that
00:31:36.020 emerged as well. And the defense lawyer, who, by the way, was on the Casey Anthony defense team,
00:31:43.460 which disturbingly won that case as you know casey anthony is free and not in jail for murdering her
00:31:51.280 her child which she clearly did um comes out and um she has a couple of things to say to us
00:32:00.300 including this about the lindsey clancy relations not 18 they are not correlated at all it's just
00:32:06.140 accidental. Um, and I'll be the judge, not you. We, we have to be conscious of what the judge
00:32:13.440 has told us we can talk about and not talk about. Um, but that speculation that this has anything
00:32:18.680 to do, that it's a copycat or anything like that is baseless and cruel.
00:32:27.740 Cruel. I'm not going to be taking any lectures from you on cruel, madam.
00:32:31.360 You're the reason Casey Anthony is running around free and you are defending yet another mother who's murdered her child. 0.99
00:32:39.440 So fuck off that we will be the we will be the final say and arbiters on whether this had anything to do with Lindsay Clancy. 0.99
00:32:49.280 And I, for one, am persuaded by her extreme interest in the case, as expressed within hours of her doing this, that it did play a role. 1.00
00:32:58.580 Call me crazy. That's where I am. She went on to play the psychosis card because it's working so well for juries out there, especially in blue states from Massachusetts to, she hopes, Illinois.
00:33:19.600 SOT 16. As you probably know, the judge denied pretrial release to a locked situation in a
00:33:29.100 hospital, which is what we had hoped would happen, given her psychological condition and
00:33:35.080 the wounds that she's still recovering from. We're disappointed with the ruling, but we were going
00:33:41.340 to continue to work really hard to investigate this case and present the defenses correct,
00:33:47.140 which is that she was psychotic and this is not a first-degree murder.
00:33:55.880 Again, disagree.
00:33:59.140 Here we go again.
00:34:00.760 We're going to start this whole thing all over again,
00:34:02.860 where these nutcases are going to be arguing that Corey Walsh 0.87
00:34:06.300 isn't to be held responsible for this crime because she was psychotic.
00:34:11.160 And now we learn she also, per NBC Chicago, had drinks at home and a number of prescription bottles.
00:34:22.100 Defense attorneys argued she was in a state of psychosis when she attempted to take her own life and when she made statements to law enforcement and to hospital staff.
00:34:32.240 What, like that her son was the devil?
00:34:34.860 The friends in the group chat say that they noticed a shift in her texts hours before her son's death.
00:34:41.100 Prosecutors citing witnesses had previously said that Walsh had, quote, recently become very interested in the Lindsay Clancy murder trial.
00:34:49.480 According to court documents, Walsh, quote, had been actively discussing the case via group text message with her friends up until just hours before the tragic discovery was made inside her home.
00:34:59.580 But on Tuesday, defense attorneys said those witnesses noted some unusual behavior from Walsh hours before.
00:35:06.740 Members of the group chat described her messages as confusing and out of character.
00:35:11.320 They said she believed Clancy's husband killed his children, Patrick Clancy, writing, quote, it was manslaughter.
00:35:18.820 Please help. I'm really freaking out.
00:35:21.780 The neighbor who found Walsh also acknowledged she was unlike herself, saying she had dilated eyes with a weird giggle.
00:35:29.020 A firefighter and first responder told detectives she was incoherent in the ambulance as well.
00:35:32.880 Defense attorneys noted that Walsh saw a counselor recently and had never previously displayed any signs of abuse toward the children.
00:35:40.320 Here we go. Here we go.
00:35:42.820 They also said, according to prosecutors, that she made statements intending to harm her husband, she said, when he arrived home, saying she would poison him with a drink.
00:35:52.900 noting that, again, she also believes she had killed her other children as well. And yes,
00:35:59.100 confirming here in the court documents that two other children who live in the home
00:36:02.780 came back from school, quote, saw the situation unfolding and ran to a neighbor for help.
00:36:10.140 That is just so awful. They, again, forgive me, the neighbor quickly pulled Barrett,
00:36:17.320 the two-year-old down. She had him in a noose and attempted CPR, but he had no pulse. These
00:36:25.800 two other children saw that. Is anyone going to account for the trauma to them? Anyone?
00:36:32.520 This woman's lawyer is lecturing us on cruelty. She's representing an expert in it. 1.00
00:36:39.900 Here we go again. There were drugs. Her pupils were dilated. She'd been drinking. She sounded weird on the text message. They're setting it up again. We're going to do it again. 0.59
00:36:53.220 Um, her attorney says she was, quote, severely mentally ill at the time of the incident, requires treatment, told the judge she was diagnosed with grief psychotic disorder.
00:37:09.220 According to the National Library of Medicine, bereavement may lead to heterogeneous psychological responses, including prolonged grief disorder, depression and psychotic like experiences.
00:37:22.740 Just, you know, I'm sorry, but a certain male gesture comes to mind.
00:37:27.320 Just stop.
00:37:28.560 Who died?
00:37:29.260 I don't know who died. 1.00
00:37:30.080 What's the grief psychotic disorder she has? 1.00
00:37:33.320 Everything's a psychotic disorder. 1.00
00:37:35.240 Just slap a postpartum psychotic disorder.
00:37:38.780 Grief psychotic disorder. 0.99
00:37:40.500 Pretty soon we're going to have Trump derangement psychotic disorder. 0.94
00:37:44.660 How many ways can we find to get mothers out of jail for murdering their children? 0.95
00:37:49.300 Let's find out together.
00:37:51.280 That's what these nutcases are asking us to do, to accept this as a new normal, a new phenomenon in which we're supposed to have empathy and compassion for the poor mothers who are the real victims here. 0.94
00:38:04.240 Stop it. Just stop it. 0.97
00:38:06.780 These jurors are an absolute nightmare, who we saw in Lindsey Clancy. 0.83
00:38:11.100 And God only knows in Illinois, in the Corey Walsh case, we're probably likely to look at a panel just like that.
00:38:16.620 At least Illinois has a large farming community.
00:38:20.820 You will find normies there.
00:38:22.960 I know because I was born among them and I tried a case not far from there when I was a young lawyer.
00:38:27.920 There are a lot of normal farmers in the Midwest, including in Illinois.
00:38:33.860 And so there's at least a shot.
00:38:35.880 I don't know this suburb that she is living in, but it's not far, I'm told, outside of Chicago.
00:38:41.120 and unfortunately this woman, Andrea Lyon, who represents her now, Corey Walsh, is very, very
00:38:50.080 good. She's been dubbed the angel of death row because of her record, this is per the New York
00:38:54.840 Post, of wins in death penalty cases. She is a former law school dean and she was a member of
00:39:01.280 Casey Anthony's legal team. As I mentioned, she quit the team in July of 2010 with Anthony's
00:39:07.480 lead attorney, Jose Baez, citing financial issues, but she's no joke. So unfortunately,
00:39:15.280 this woman has lawyered up, Cori Walsh. I mean, she's got money. She's living in a million dollar 1.00
00:39:21.720 home. Do we have the pictures of it, Deb? Like this is a woman with means quite clearly. And
00:39:28.640 she's probably got the best lawyers money can buy. Look at this. It's a beautiful home. Stunning 0.69
00:39:36.520 green lawn looks like it could be on an acre or more. And inside that home, a horror took place.
00:39:46.520 Thank God for the school-aged children who ran, or this could have been much, much worse. They said
00:39:52.420 that they found the baby upstairs on the floor of one of the rooms, just like left there.
00:40:00.300 Thank God this did not follow the exact pattern of the Lindsay Clancy trial,
00:40:04.740 where the children appeared to be running for their lives,
00:40:08.320 at least Dawson,
00:40:10.060 and she caught them because she was bigger and stronger and faster, 0.98
00:40:15.420 and she used all of that to kill him.
00:40:19.900 This is a dark week, you guys.
00:40:23.440 You know, I sent out a tweet earlier today, or yesterday,
00:40:28.820 and I just was on with Piers Morgan, and he asked me about it,
00:40:34.280 And I'm just going to read it because I don't know that I can repeat it exactly without reading it.
00:40:39.420 But I don't know.
00:40:40.180 Maybe you're feeling this way too.
00:40:42.160 What I wrote was, the combination of the Lindsay Clancy story, the one-year mark for Charlie's murder,
00:40:48.140 and the 25th for 9-11 is a lot of darkness for one week.
00:40:52.480 Hug your kids.
00:40:53.400 Go outside.
00:40:54.560 Hold hands.
00:40:55.880 Thank God for the privilege of being alive.
00:40:57.720 And say a prayer for the lost and grieving.
00:41:00.560 you can get mired in it you know you can get mired in the darkness if you
00:41:06.320 spend too much time with it i mean we've been thinking about it as we outline our coverage
00:41:12.580 for this week because there's no way we are ignoring these nutcases and lindsey clancy
00:41:17.180 or the cory walsh case none whatsoever or you're complicit the charlie anniversary
00:41:24.880 one year mark is tomorrow. I've been dreading it all week. I can't quite talk about it, but
00:41:34.580 Frank Turek will be here in our second hour and we'll give it a shot there. We try to discuss
00:41:40.580 Charlie and Turning Point and where we all are right now. And I should tell you that we do have
00:41:47.120 a Charlie special put together. It was the fourth episode of our tour documentary and we posted
00:41:54.880 it on members only today. And I said to my team, let's pull that one and make it public. So we're
00:42:02.420 going to air it tomorrow. Don't want that behind any sort of a paywall. So you'll see it. But
00:42:10.940 there's the Charlie one year mark. And then there's the 25th anniversary of 9-11 on Friday,
00:42:17.660 the 25th. And I don't know about you, but my timeline all over X is disturbing videos,
00:42:22.960 911 calls and emergency responder calls and so on. And it's important. It is very important. I
00:42:28.240 support it because the younger generation doesn't have any memory of this and they don't seem to
00:42:35.140 understand what went down that day. They really don't. And so it's up to us, those of us who were
00:42:39.180 and remember to remind them. They need to understand. This would be like if our generation
00:42:45.080 moved right past Pearl Harbor and stopped talking about that. No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. You
00:42:50.240 don't just move past it because the next gen wasn't there when it happened. This contemporaries
00:42:57.280 of ours died that day. If you don't know somebody who died on 9-11, you probably know someone who
00:43:05.020 knew someone or know somebody who was there or know somebody who was directly affected by it.
00:43:12.640 You know, poor Sean Newman was with a fire company in New York City that day
00:43:17.900 and wasn't supposed to be working.
00:43:20.200 He commandeered an emergency responder truck
00:43:22.360 to get down there.
00:43:23.920 His entire fire company died.
00:43:27.920 And there, but for the grace of God,
00:43:29.600 he would have died too had he been on duty.
00:43:32.540 He's had to live with that
00:43:33.640 and the aftermath of digging out in ground zero forevermore.
00:43:40.460 And he's got ongoing health issues
00:43:41.840 as a result of all of that.
00:43:42.940 There's just so many, so many Americans
00:43:45.820 who suffered that day and thereafter, and we will not be ignoring it. No, no, the answer is no.
00:43:52.160 So we'll deal with the darkness and the grief and the feelings of melancholy and suffering
00:43:58.340 that it brings on. And then we will turn the page as we always do as Americans, as humans,
00:44:05.920 right down to the microcosm of those who work on the MK show. And we will find some measure of
00:44:12.860 light to shine because our world is not all darkness and awfulness and murderous mothers
00:44:19.700 and others. It's, it's, it tends to be wonderful human beings. It tends to be a world guided by,
00:44:26.460 created by, inspired by Christ. And there are billions of human beings right now trying to live
00:44:33.760 in his model with his guidance, with him as their guiding light. One of the reasons, again,
00:44:39.920 we have Frank on today, but there's plenty of cause for hope. And it's in the second part of
00:44:44.860 that tweet. Are your kids starting school right now? Mine are. You see them in their little
00:44:50.260 uniforms or with their backpacks. They come home with the energy of a new day, new friends, new
00:44:55.420 teachers, the funny stories, the good, the bad, the other, the bleary eyed mornings where everybody's
00:45:02.420 getting used to that alarm clock again. You know, the scarfing down to the breakfast as you run out
00:45:07.700 to make it on time. And all the fun things that happen, you know, around it, like the,
00:45:14.940 you know, getting lost in your school and getting closer to graduation, depending on the kid,
00:45:20.360 all of that is part of the spice of life. It's such a privilege if you have kids in your home.
00:45:27.080 Again, that's why Michelle Obama is a sociopath. I don't miss them at all. I'm glad they're gone. 0.99
00:45:31.560 You know, it's all about me. I think most normal humans really enjoy their children.
00:45:36.280 And not necessarily 100% of the time that we're all normal, but like we love having them at home.
00:45:43.440 And if you don't have kids, and I know I have audience members who don't have kids because I hear from them.
00:45:48.480 They write to me and I write back sometimes.
00:45:50.580 And that's fine, too.
00:45:51.900 I know that there are people listening right now who don't have kids but have family members who they love, their families of origin, who have pets they freaking adore, who make life worth living, who depend on them for their existence.
00:46:06.280 And don't underestimate the power of that.
00:46:09.320 You know, the animal kingdom is such a wonder.
00:46:12.540 And they are such wonderful pets and additions to our lives, even Strudwick.
00:46:18.400 I mean, there's a lot of blessings that you can find in your own life if you just pause and look for them.
00:46:22.820 So try not to get too mired in it.
00:46:25.920 Try not to get too mired in the darkness.
00:46:28.800 You know, it's just, it's too depressing and you don't need to do it.
00:46:33.380 You don't need to live your life like that.
00:46:37.020 I do want to tell you about a couple of other things that have happened.
00:46:40.380 There's the most fascinating Elizabeth Holmes clip on the internet. Now this woman,
00:46:46.680 you know, what she did at Theranos is such a great story. I mean, it's just, I mean,
00:46:49.700 it's horrifying of course, but like the fraud that was committed is jaw dropping and riveting.
00:46:54.420 And she apparently in the three months before she went off to prison, allowed herself to be filmed
00:47:02.780 by this documentary filmmaker.
00:47:06.320 And he has just released the promo of his film with her.
00:47:12.300 He's pretty well known, this guy.
00:47:13.660 And he's working with another guy
00:47:14.760 who just made the film on Chris Hansen.
00:47:17.320 Remember Chris Hansen of To Catch a Predator
00:47:19.280 was on the show.
00:47:20.260 We talked about how they were making a movie about him
00:47:22.120 starring Robert Pattinson.
00:47:24.320 So this other guy, the other filmmaker, Oppenheim,
00:47:26.840 produced that.
00:47:28.260 But anyway, these two get access to Elizabeth Holmes
00:47:30.040 And the one lived with her for the two to three months before she went off to prison.
00:47:34.660 And look at the tease.
00:47:36.800 Look at the preview, the trailer.
00:47:38.020 Watch.
00:47:39.440 I'm not that person.
00:47:41.380 I can promise you that.
00:47:45.140 I don't have anything to deceive you on.
00:47:47.120 Of course, I'm not deceiving you.
00:47:49.460 I'm engaging with you as a human being.
00:47:54.540 Why would I deceive you?
00:47:55.720 there's no
00:47:58.420 there's no reason
00:48:00.620 for me to do that
00:48:01.500 okay
00:48:04.740 all right
00:48:08.700 okay good shot
00:48:23.360 you're being real right now
00:48:24.520 Oh, he's being real.
00:48:28.840 Wow.
00:48:38.080 It's called You Can See Everything.
00:48:41.380 It premiered at the Telluride Film Festival in Colorado,
00:48:45.880 and apparently it is jaw-dropping.
00:48:50.080 I can't wait to see this.
00:48:52.020 They're releasing it in theaters, but not until October, which seems like too far away.
00:48:57.920 Vanity Fair wrote up what was in the movie.
00:49:01.900 I'm not going to give it.
00:49:02.700 They don't give spoilers, and I'm not going to either because I don't know any.
00:49:05.260 But listen to this tease.
00:49:06.940 The 174-minute documentary was indeed worth the wait.
00:49:11.180 It's full of unexpected twists and turns and shocking reveals with Nathan Fielder, that's the guy you just saw there,
00:49:16.680 and Oppenheim having incredible access to Holmes
00:49:19.560 and her husband, Billy Evans,
00:49:20.820 in the weeks leading up to her prison sentence.
00:49:24.900 It says, let's see,
00:49:26.880 raising their two children in San Diego,
00:49:28.800 blah, blah, blah.
00:49:29.760 Fielder lived at home with them.
00:49:31.900 It takes, after Holmes begins her sentence,
00:49:34.340 the documentary continues
00:49:35.440 but takes an extremely unexpected twist
00:49:37.860 that involves the appearance
00:49:39.380 of a notable Hollywood actress.
00:49:41.860 The audience was asked by the producers
00:49:43.640 to not reveal the person who appears in the doc
00:49:45.380 because of the overwhelming shock of that twist.
00:49:47.940 I can't wait to find out what it is.
00:49:49.560 I don't want to Google it.
00:49:50.680 I want it to be a surprise.
00:49:52.220 From there, the documentary offers many surprising revelations,
00:49:55.140 especially when it pertains to Holmes' husband,
00:49:57.460 whom she married in 2019.
00:49:59.280 Fielder discovers that Evans seems to be very involved in
00:50:02.460 or perhaps even controlling over many aspects of Holmes' image,
00:50:05.580 including her Twitter,
00:50:07.020 but apparently there's more to that story.
00:50:09.560 I am riveted.
00:50:10.940 I'm all in.
00:50:12.200 I want to talk to the husband.
00:50:13.680 I want to talk to Holmes.
00:50:15.380 And I definitely wanna talk to these filmmakers
00:50:17.160 and if I can get any of them,
00:50:19.000 I will bring them right here to you.
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00:52:47.900 All right, I got a few things I got to go over with you. All right, first of all,
00:52:51.360 something unbelievable happened with Wheel of Fortune. Have you seen this story? I mean,
00:52:56.420 this is crazy. So Wheel of Fortune has an announcer, had an announcer named Jim Thornton.
00:53:05.080 And, you know, he's the guy who does like,
00:53:07.120 and do you get a trip to Tahiti
00:53:09.280 when you hit the right thing on the wheel?
00:53:11.640 And he, like two weeks ago,
00:53:14.680 was unceremoniously suspended from the show
00:53:17.760 without explanation.
00:53:18.760 They said it was because of something
00:53:19.820 that happened on a flight,
00:53:21.140 but they didn't tell us what it was,
00:53:22.820 but it seemed clear he was out of a job.
00:53:25.100 So we're all waiting.
00:53:26.260 And they said that the police were waiting for him
00:53:28.040 when the flight landed.
00:53:28.820 So my own bet was like, did he feel somebody up?
00:53:32.040 Did he like, what was it?
00:53:33.240 Something sexual related? Well, last week it comes out what it was. He was allegedly looking at child sexual abuse material, in particular like an online chat forum about child sexual abuse, on the plane while wearing a Wheel of Fortune jacket.
00:53:56.320 And the person next to him, hashtag hero, took a picture and told the pilot, which is like amazing.
00:54:05.960 God bless that person.
00:54:07.300 I don't know if it was a male or a female, but that was very ballsy, right?
00:54:11.140 To like, can you imagine like sneaking your phone up?
00:54:13.660 Like, oh my God, taking the picture so you have the evidence and then also telling the pilot so that the authorities could be waiting when the plane landed.
00:54:23.120 Now, the police have not yet arrested him, so I'm not sure what's happening there.
00:54:30.180 And his lawyer is denying the specifics of the charges, in particular that he was looking at child sexual abuse material.
00:54:38.180 The lawyer has what to me sounds like a cockamamie defense, suggesting his lawyers, Alison Hart, told TMZ that the actor clicked on the site by mistake, by mistake.
00:54:53.740 She said that he had become active in suicide prevention advocacy and that he spent time visiting chat rooms offering support to individuals suffering from suicidal ideation, that he often viewed visited a suicide prevention website, whatever that was supposed to be for that.
00:55:15.140 and that he claims he was sent a link
00:55:17.800 to a different chat room by an acquaintance
00:55:20.880 from the suicide prevention group.
00:55:23.500 This site is intended for people
00:55:25.780 experiencing pedophilic thoughts.
00:55:28.540 He claims that he left the chat room
00:55:31.660 after realizing what it was
00:55:33.900 and that he did not engage in any illegal conduct.
00:55:37.340 And again, he was not arrested.
00:55:39.380 But the images published by the Daily Mail,
00:55:43.260 which broke this story,
00:55:44.400 are shocking and do appear to have some images that are rather disturbing, okay? It's got,
00:55:55.280 hold on, do I have it in front of me? I'm trying to find the packet from yesterday. Can you find
00:56:01.400 that, Kayla? I think you might have that. But in any event, it goes line by line. She's got the
00:56:08.080 actual chat screen grabbed and it goes line by line. And in one of the lines, the user who we
00:56:16.800 are told is this guy Thornton is saying that he's on an airplane. Can you believe I'm in an airplane
00:56:22.560 and in a chat room like this? And somebody's like, oh, just don't be like the guy who got caught
00:56:27.960 showing child sexual abuse material on his phone as his screensaver when he was exiting the London
00:56:33.740 tube. Like, oh yeah, that would be, wouldn't that be terrible? Do you have it? Thank you. 0.73
00:56:39.200 Okay. So I had my team pull the actual screen grabs that the Daily Mail published and they
00:56:44.880 report, okay, it looks like he was going under the user Nicholas B 77. This hasn't yet been
00:56:51.620 confirmed by the Daily Mail or others. It just looks like it's him. If you tie the circumstances
00:56:57.580 together. Um, you see those messages in the send part of the chat. So it looks like this is the
00:57:04.760 person whose screen we are spying on. Um, in this one, Nicholas B 77 writes, saw a couple of cute
00:57:11.980 boys and a hot little girl at, um, some venue he had just gone to, and then writes the word boy
00:57:19.680 fest. Uh, in another one, you see him writing, well, it's crazy lifeline from the sky. What if
00:57:26.900 someone sees a random sequence of lines on a screen. I love it because somebody wrote,
00:57:31.440 writes to him, like, what are you doing? What, you know, like, it's very bold to be writing this
00:57:35.300 on a plane. Um, and he seems to be all for it. Okay. Let me keep going. He writes, I hide the
00:57:44.200 part that says, we think when I say he Nicholas B 77, who we think is him, I hide the part that
00:57:49.060 says lifeline. So it's just a few lines. It's a big middle finger to dumb man who takes away every
00:57:53.820 other enjoyable activity, we CLs, and then I can't see the rest of the sentence. I don't know what 0.99
00:57:59.700 CL stands for, but it certainly could be something like child lover. I don't know. Forgive me. I'm
00:58:05.180 filling in the blanks. Then he writes, or Nicholas B77 writes, I fire up the boy moment and start
00:58:13.040 looking at the galleries. He, he, and somebody else wrote, just don't be the guy that got arrested
00:58:18.660 getting off the tube because he had child porn as his phone wallpaper. I read CP, which I think
00:58:23.620 is child porn. And then there's a response. I mean, truly the fact that I don't do any of that 0.99
00:58:29.520 stuff makes me say, fuck it, free speech, baby. And then I remember there was a guy on the plane 0.99
00:58:34.620 who was actually looking at CP on his laptop on the flight. Yeah, he didn't fare so well either.
00:58:39.540 Someone else wrote, how are people so addicted they can't go a few hours without looking at
00:58:42.840 something illegal? Then our response is probably more common than we like to pretend. I mean,
00:58:46.660 all kinds of people get addicted to porn, although they expect us not to look at it.
00:58:49.660 There's no help if we wanted it. Then there's Nicholas B77 writing, saunters to the bathroom
00:58:56.280 for a quick wank on a 737. Quote, I wonder if you were really horny how fast you could jack off 1.00
00:59:02.380 in flight. Bet it's happened under a lot of blankets. Nicholas B77 writes, well, somebody 0.99
00:59:10.480 writes, well, you're on a plane, right? What if someone sees? And Nicholas B77 writes, yes, exactly.
00:59:15.540 what if someone sees a random sequence of lines on a screen? I love it. And then that's where he
00:59:19.960 says, I'll hide the part that says lifeline. So it's just a few lines. Wait till I fire a boy
00:59:26.960 moment and start looking at the galleries. He, he, somebody writes, just don't be that guy who
00:59:32.100 got arrested going off the tube because he had CP as his phone wallpaper. Nicholas B77 responds.
00:59:37.440 Yeah, right. I mean, truly the fact that I don't do any of that stuff makes me say,
00:59:40.620 fuck it, free speech, baby. On the tube, someone asks, maybe on a personal desktop, but on the 0.99
00:59:45.600 tube. Nicholas B77, wow, that takes a little balls. Then Nicholas B77 writes, I remember there 0.97
00:59:52.320 was a guy on a plane who was actually looking at CP on his laptop on the flight. Yeah, he didn't
00:59:56.740 fare so well either. Nicholas B77 writes, man arrested for CP on the tube, sending the tweet
01:00:03.380 out. Nicholas B77 writes, yeah. Oh, somebody writes, how are people so addicted they can't
01:00:08.700 a few hours without looking at somebody illegal. Somebody writes, I know my porn habits aren't
01:00:13.300 great, but damn. Nicholas B77 writes, yeah, can you imagine? But it's probably more common than 0.99
01:00:17.580 we like to pretend. I mean, all kinds of people get addicted to porn. Somebody writes, but it'll
01:00:22.160 ruin your life, porn though. Nicholas B77, and although they expect us not to look at it,
01:00:26.840 there's no help if we wanted it. And on and on it goes from there. Then there's one Nicholas B77
01:00:33.040 with the sauntering to the bathroom, what he allegedly did there.
01:00:37.620 I mean, this is like deeply disturbing stuff.
01:00:39.880 You can see why Wheel of Fortune, America's, you know, family program,
01:00:44.360 turfed this guy.
01:00:45.800 It doesn't look like he's in here by accident.
01:00:48.040 If he is Nicholas B77, he's actively participating
01:00:51.220 and writing things about hot young girls.
01:00:55.240 This is very, very dark.
01:00:57.160 So I genuinely hope it's not true.
01:01:00.860 I don't know why the police didn't arrest him, if it is true.
01:01:05.360 One of the messages that's on the computer screen 0.63
01:01:08.600 talks about an all-you-can-eat boy fae. 0.99
01:01:13.640 This is all very, very dark. 0.94
01:01:16.020 And it is a reminder, if this is true about him,
01:01:19.780 that these child predators are lurking everywhere, everywhere.
01:01:24.360 You can't assume that just because somebody's a nice guy
01:01:27.820 or associated with a product you like, et cetera,
01:01:30.860 that they're squeaky clean. And this is just a good reminder for parents. Do not leave your
01:01:36.320 minor child alone with any stranger ever, ever. I mean, you have to be extremely vigilant as a
01:01:45.540 parent. And I know it's dark, but you know, this is why some parents don't let their kids go on
01:01:51.700 sleepovers because they don't know who's going to be there. We were never quite that radical.
01:01:58.400 We get to know our kids, friends, parents, and you develop a level of trust.
01:02:03.060 But I understand the instinct.
01:02:05.100 It's very, very scary.
01:02:07.980 Okay, moving on.
01:02:08.760 I have a word to say about the U.S. Open.
01:02:11.000 First of all, congratulations to Blake Shelton in an epic mass match against Carlos Alcaraz last night.
01:02:16.900 Went five hours.
01:02:18.160 It ended at 3.33 in the morning.
01:02:21.360 People who were there were asking.
01:02:22.620 We had a friend who said, I'm waiting for them to start serving breakfast.
01:02:25.620 The U.S. Open so far has been really entertaining.
01:02:28.020 I have to say. And, um, that match between Tiafoe and the young guy Mickelson, um, who is only 22
01:02:37.360 years old, Mickelson, um, who was unranked and Tiafoe, I think is number nine in the world
01:02:43.880 who was beating Tiafoe. Tiafoe was down, I think two zero. It was crazy. This, this, you know,
01:02:50.720 relative no name unranked at 22 years old comes on the scene and was beating him. And it was a
01:02:57.740 match to the finish. I mean, five sets could have gone either way. And in the moment when
01:03:03.740 Tiafoe did win, the poor kid, they had their, you know, sort of greeting at the net and he broke
01:03:12.560 down in tears. 22 is young, you know, in the grand scheme. And I'm sure the emotions were
01:03:18.440 overwhelming. And the two of them shared an emotional hug at center court that was really
01:03:24.940 moving and I've got to hand it to the announcers. Um, the one guy said sports, you know, let's
01:03:34.540 watch. That is extra special for Francis Tiafoe.
01:03:54.940 And it's a big brother moment.
01:04:07.260 Nicholson in tears in Francis's arms.
01:04:15.860 Sports, man.
01:04:20.200 I love that.
01:04:21.720 Sports, man.
01:04:23.380 It was such a great moment, such a feel-good moment.
01:04:28.720 You know, like Tiafoe, who has a great backstory of his own,
01:04:32.420 he manages to pull it out, and he's about to celebrate,
01:04:35.880 and then he remembers he should go to the center court
01:04:38.500 and have a moment with his competitor.
01:04:41.400 And clearly that competitor needed him.
01:04:43.680 He looked up to Tiafoe, we were told by the sports reporters,
01:04:47.860 and of course he did.
01:04:48.700 I mean, Tiafoe's, like, very well-known.
01:04:50.580 He's been in the sport in a long time.
01:04:51.640 and clearly was overcome with emotion.
01:04:55.820 I mean, tennis is like, my whole family plays tennis.
01:04:59.380 I don't play tennis, but it really is.
01:05:01.500 It's two gladiators going at it against each other.
01:05:04.340 There's no other teammate to blame.
01:05:06.760 There is no place to hide.
01:05:09.220 It is just the two of you on that court,
01:05:12.200 you know, win, lose, or draw.
01:05:13.260 And your fortunes rise and fall so quickly.
01:05:18.440 You know, the emotional swings are huge.
01:05:20.500 it builds so much character. This is one of the things I see in my own kids being out there
01:05:24.560 fighting for it against all odds. And at times losing, you know, in sometimes in humiliating
01:05:31.820 fashion builds character, winning, trying to be a gentleman or, you know, a lady in the case
01:05:38.080 builds character. But that poor guy, I mean, he has nothing to hang his head over this Mickelson.
01:05:43.920 He was, I think, going to the university of Georgia to play tennis there and then decided
01:05:48.780 to try his hand at the pro circuit. And what a run it's been. It's been doing amazing and almost
01:05:56.040 beat Tiafoe to move on to the semis and couldn't quite hold it together, which I thought was very
01:06:02.740 sweet and an emotional moment that really moved me. So good for both of those guys. We'll be
01:06:07.620 rooting for them both, though I don't think Tiafoe's favored to get into the final against
01:06:15.580 Blake Shelton. Um, here's Ben Shelton, not Blake, Ben. Um, here's one other thing I wanted to
01:06:22.640 mention. Naomi Osaka. All right. She and I have gone round and round. A couple of years ago, 0.98
01:06:28.440 she chastised a reporter for having the nerve to ask her about the fact that she doesn't perform
01:06:32.480 as well on clay. She had some meltdown on him, like he was doing something inappropriate. 1.00
01:06:37.340 And then she said she wasn't going to do press anymore. She doesn't want to do the press because 0.84
01:06:40.780 she's sick and tired of being asked about things that aren't good for her. Things that, you know,
01:06:45.420 bring down the room. Well, that's, sorry, but that's, they're there on behalf of us. The
01:06:50.480 reporters are in the room to ask questions that their news organizations think the general public
01:06:55.960 might have some interest in and why you don't perform as well on clay as you're going to the
01:06:59.720 French Open would be a relevant question. But unlike all the other players, she refused to
01:07:05.900 engage. She had a meltdown that she said it was about her mental health and she shouldn't have
01:07:10.260 to answer the questions. Every other player has mental health too. They have to worry about it.
01:07:14.720 They have to manage it.
01:07:15.600 It goes up.
01:07:16.240 It goes down.
01:07:17.080 They're under tense circumstances.
01:07:18.980 They get asked annoying questions.
01:07:20.620 They do it.
01:07:22.040 They do it because it's part of the price of admission.
01:07:25.360 The access by the fans to the players generates interest and puts butts in the seats at the stadiums, which generates ticket sales, which is what pays you the big prize money when you win.
01:07:38.260 And when you win, you get endorsement deals and you become a multimillionaire like Naomi Osaka has.
01:07:44.720 And then you repay it by giving a few questions to what can be sometimes annoying questions, I'm sure.
01:07:51.420 A few answers to those.
01:07:53.400 And you deal with your very pesky public.
01:07:57.380 Instead, she, through her agent, called this one reporter for I think it was the Cincinnati Inquirer a bully simply because he said, how do you balance the two things?
01:08:06.140 You want sort of privacy on these press conferences, but you work with the press and you use the press to build your brand.
01:08:12.860 It was a very gentle question. She later, through her agent, called him a bully. This guy probably makes $60,000 a year. You can add two or three zeros to that for what Naomi Osaka has made. She plays for Japan, by the way, not us.
01:08:29.280 um so she now comes out all right so she hasn't been in good sports since then just last summer
01:08:35.980 we played video of her um she pulled out of the french open after she refused to do those
01:08:41.140 interviews she wanted us to know she has anxiety and depression i mean welcome to the club a lot
01:08:45.540 of people do and they still do their jobs um then the following june she skipped out on wimbledon
01:08:50.080 okay but let's flash flash forward to last august of 2025 where she was at the national bank open
01:08:57.660 in Montreal. She was fighting against
01:08:59.480 a gal from Canada, Victoria 0.98
01:09:01.720 Mboko. 1.00
01:09:03.640 And Victoria beat her.
01:09:05.600 It was an upset, and it was surprising. 0.93
01:09:08.000 And this gal looked up to Naomi, 0.56
01:09:09.960 and Naomi didn't congratulate 0.99
01:09:11.940 her after the 1.00
01:09:13.760 losing match. Remember this?
01:09:26.380 Thanks, I guess.
01:09:27.660 Um, I don't really want to take up too much time. So I'll just say thank you to everyone. Um, thank you to my team. Thank you to the ball kids. Thank you to the organizers, um, and all the volunteers. And I hope you guys had a good night.
01:09:44.080 Not a word about her opponent, not a congratulatory word, nothing, nothing.
01:09:54.340 Even Coco Goff's former coach, Brad Gilbert, acknowledged it and laid into her saying, look, she may suffer with social anxiety, but gosh, congratulate your opponent, especially one that looked up to you.
01:10:07.980 So this is not somebody who's handled her time in the spotlight well.
01:10:13.560 I believe if memory serves, she later came out and said, oh, sorry, I forgot to thank her.
01:10:20.020 So now we get to this year's open. 0.96
01:10:23.160 Her thing this year is to walk out onto the tennis court.
01:10:26.980 And by the way, notwithstanding how she really doesn't want to deal with the press,
01:10:29.620 during the Black Lives Matter protests of 2020, oh, she was all about BLM.
01:10:33.980 She made that very clear on the tennis court and off.
01:10:37.260 So she's fine using the media for that messaging.
01:10:39.480 But when we have to talk about why she's not a great clay player, it's intrusive.
01:10:42.800 and bullying um so now we get to this year's u.s open and she's had a comeback after having a child
01:10:48.100 good for her applaud it respect it um and she's decided that she is an anna wintour protege look
01:10:56.420 at her walking out um and the round one entrance wearing who decides war that's the name of the
01:11:04.060 designer in this match here. 1.00
01:11:06.220 Watch this.
01:11:06.620 It's on August 31st.
01:11:07.960 It's Hot 36.
01:11:10.420 And from Japan, former world number one and two times. 1.00
01:11:16.520 Got her sourpuss with what looks like a Bride of Frankenstein wedding dress on. 1.00
01:11:21.840 she looks like someone ran over her cat but she's in what she considers to be high fashion 0.93
01:11:35.120 it's a tennis game madam new york new york this one she chose
01:11:42.120 she's now on the middle of the court bouncing holding her racket the other player looks like 0.99
01:11:49.200 athlete having to deal with this nonsense exhibitionism i thought we struggled with 1.00
01:11:56.060 social anxiety i thought we couldn't deal with cameras or attention because of this woman they 1.00
01:12:02.760 had to create some special like anxiety room at all the grand slams where the tournament 1.00
01:12:06.940 players could go and like be along with their alone with their shrinks this is okay but now
01:12:11.520 we're going to be a fashionista all right now suddenly we're ninja linda evangelista naomi
01:12:18.420 Campbell? I don't know. Then here she is. Look at this. Rounds two, three, and four.
01:12:23.740 And she did it again on all of them. Stop 37. And today returns as a four-time major champion 1.00
01:12:31.220 from Japan, Naomi Osaka. 0.96
01:12:42.760 Naomi Osaka. 0.99
01:12:48.420 Each one is more ridiculous than the next. 0.90
01:12:50.860 Please welcome a two-time U.S. Open champion, Naomi Osaka. 0.95
01:12:59.520 Well, and guess what happened? 0.84
01:13:01.840 She lost because eventually she came up against the world's number two player who was focused on tennis instead of herself.
01:13:12.760 And she was beaten roundly.
01:13:16.180 It was a decisive victory.
01:13:17.860 and she's now out of the U.S. Open.
01:13:20.420 So I am just curious about whether we are now at a place
01:13:24.560 where we're allowed to comment on Naomi Osaka again.
01:13:29.080 Is she courting the press again? 0.56
01:13:31.780 Because when she said she wasn't, 0.54
01:13:33.760 she was on four magazine covers.
01:13:37.020 And when some of us remarked on it,
01:13:39.100 she snapped back saying,
01:13:41.320 I did those before, before I spoke out
01:13:44.480 against media coverage.
01:13:46.520 But I sense that she wants attention again.
01:13:50.200 So I'm willing to give it to her.
01:13:52.400 And I want her to know that I think, just based on what I've seen from other pro tennis players,
01:13:57.380 the best thing to do when performing at a Grand Slam tournament is to focus on the tennis.
01:14:04.860 To dress like a professional tennis player.
01:14:08.220 And to focus on one's game.
01:14:09.620 Because you were a disaster in that last match that you lost.
01:14:13.140 You looked like an amateur, especially in that first set.
01:14:16.800 And it was no surprise to any of us watching
01:14:19.100 that you failed to make it.
01:14:21.120 You failed to advance.
01:14:23.120 So goodbye, Naomi. 0.99
01:14:25.620 Good luck to you.
01:14:27.340 I really hope you're working out your issues
01:14:29.240 and that you've moved beyond the petty behavior
01:14:32.300 we saw from you last year and the year before that
01:14:35.840 and the one before that and the one before that.
01:14:39.000 Anyway, go Team America.
01:14:40.620 That's who I'm rooting for.
01:14:42.240 We do still have some players out there
01:14:44.320 and it's going to be fun to watch the remaining matches.
01:14:47.820 Okay, we got to bring in Frank Turek.
01:14:50.020 We're going to do that right after this break.
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01:17:29.320 Jashinsky, Jesse Kelly, Real Clear Politics, and many more. It's bold, no BS news, only on
01:17:36.000 the Megyn Kelly channel, Sirius XM 111, and on the Sirius XM app.
01:17:44.340 Joining me now, a close friend and faith mentor of Charlie Kirk. Frank Turek is a Christian author
01:17:51.140 and the president of crossexamined.org. He was with Charlie on the horrific day of his
01:17:56.780 assassination in Utah one year ago tomorrow and came on this program later to talk about his
01:18:01.980 experience. And I'm honored to say since then he and I have become friends too. He's back today to
01:18:07.720 honor Charlie's legacy and talk about his new book, which is called The War on Reality, Recovering
01:18:14.020 Truth in a World that Celebrates Lies. And it's out this week. Frank, great to see you. Welcome
01:18:20.200 back to the show. Megan, it's always great seeing you and being back to talk about a tough issue.
01:18:25.340 It's been a long year on one hand, and then on the other hand, I look at it and I go,
01:18:29.340 I can't believe it's been a year.
01:18:30.540 I don't know.
01:18:30.760 You kind of feel the same way, I think, don't you?
01:18:32.500 It's crazy.
01:18:34.020 Yeah, but very much so.
01:18:36.800 But unlike you, I wasn't there.
01:18:39.240 I wasn't at Utah Valley University, and I've been thinking about that so much for you,
01:18:44.840 Frank, and for others too, Mikey and others who are on site.
01:18:48.940 The trauma was at least twofold because you lost Charlie, I guess threefold.
01:18:55.020 you saw Charlie die, and you yourself were exposed to a very dangerous, traumatic situation.
01:19:03.980 So how have you wrestled with that over these past 12 months?
01:19:08.380 Well, the first person I think of when I wake up in the morning is Charlie, and the last person
01:19:12.460 I think about before I go to bed is Charlie. And I'm thinking about Charlie a lot during the day,
01:19:17.980 as you can imagine, Megan. And people call this PTSD, but I think that's a misnomer. There's no
01:19:23.120 disorder. I mean, that's normal. That's who I ought to be thinking about because I've never
01:19:29.100 seen anything like that, Megan. I've never seen anybody. I was in the Navy and I never saw anybody
01:19:32.860 shot. But to see your friend murdered right in front of you and to see the fact that he was gone
01:19:39.280 the second the bullet hit him. I mean, when we had him in the car, Megan, he wasn't looking at
01:19:44.300 me. He was looking right past me into eternity. His eyes were fixed. That's the only good news
01:19:49.620 we got that day, that he didn't suffer at all. But I think the way around it, I've had a lot
01:19:56.500 of people say they're praying for me and, you know, praying for everybody involved. I think
01:20:00.800 that has helped. But the second thing I think that's really important, there's a passage that
01:20:05.060 the Apostle Paul, who, by the way, was beaten and whipped so many times himself and experienced
01:20:10.380 hardships and shipwrecks and everything, trying to sort of do what Charlie was doing, going out
01:20:14.960 and telling people about the truth of Christianity, the truth that Jesus rose from the dead, and by
01:20:19.040 trusting in Him, you can be forgiven and given His righteousness. The Apostle Paul says in his
01:20:25.300 second letter to the Corinthians that God comforts us so we can comfort other people. And whenever I
01:20:32.540 start feeling bad, I just think of Erica, and I try and do whatever I can to help Erica, because
01:20:38.020 this has been such a brutal year for her, not just personally, obviously, the tragedy, but there's
01:20:44.760 been so much slander thrown about, about her that none of it is true. She is such an amazing woman.
01:20:53.020 Megan, that I, I, I texted her the other day and I said to her, I said, Erica, if the roles were
01:20:59.140 reversed, if you were the one who had been murdered, I don't really think Charlie would
01:21:05.080 have done as well over the first year as you have, because she has never lashed out. She's
01:21:10.680 always been full of grace and truth. She's always been concerned about her family and concerned
01:21:16.040 about the Lord and concerned about keeping TPUSA on Charlie's legacy track that he had it on.
01:21:24.020 She hasn't been distracted, and I think she really has the Holy Spirit. She is directed
01:21:30.200 by God, and she's yielded to that. She's taken so much abuse, Frank, and it's been,
01:21:38.840 you know, part of it, I mean, I think a large part of it is people are frustrated. She's not
01:21:46.480 Charlie. You know, there's a, there's like an anger outside of whatever we've got the conspiracy
01:21:52.380 theories and all that. I really have no time for them. I think it's despicable, but there's been
01:21:57.960 like a little cottage industry that's popped up of detractors of Erica's. Yes. And my own take on
01:22:04.520 it is, there's a frustration. She's not Charlie. She stepped into Charlie's role. She did that to
01:22:11.440 save his organization that he built from the time he was 19. She felt she had to do it. I think there
01:22:17.580 was a strong case that she was right. But there's, you know, whoever took over that role was going to
01:22:24.500 suffer from not being Charlie. And the fact that it's Erica, who's this beautiful, you know, faith
01:22:30.900 based woman who, you know, people have strong opinions about. She's got strong thoughts.
01:22:35.740 She's obviously political, which also makes her a target, has just brought out this visceral 0.77
01:22:41.560 reaction in some. And in my own reaction to it has been twofold. Number one, I desperately want
01:22:46.920 Erica to not be the CEO of Turning Point just because I just want to save her from this. It's 0.99
01:22:51.460 not that she hasn't done a great job. It's just, I just want to say, like, if I feel like if she
01:22:54.680 would just stop that, a lot of this would go away. And I would like to see her spared it. You can't
01:22:59.900 stop people on the internet from saying what they're going to say. But my second thought on
01:23:03.160 it, Frank, is that with every attack that's launched on her, she becomes a greater superhero
01:23:07.780 because she, she doesn't bow to it. You know, she, she's kept going. She just with her head
01:23:13.900 held high, mothering her children, trying to run the organization, doing what she can at the public
01:23:19.060 events they have. And with every step forward, she develops another superhero muscle because
01:23:25.680 she hasn't fallen in the face of these attacks. Can I read something that she wrote in the new
01:23:32.300 book? She wrote the forward to it. And I just want to read three sentences that when I read
01:23:39.620 these, I went, this woman is exceptional. Here's what she said. This is right in the middle. And
01:23:46.320 by the way, you don't need to buy the book to read the forward. If you just go to Amazon,
01:23:50.520 look for The War on Reality and click on editorial comments. We put the whole forward
01:23:54.180 on that website. Here's what she says. Since September 10th, 2025, I have been faced with
01:24:01.820 my own new reality, one that I still wrestle with as I attempt to grasp its earthly permanence.
01:24:08.540 Quite honestly, it'll probably be like that for the rest of my life. Yet what I've realized
01:24:14.680 is that redefining my reality isn't what gives me peace. Surrendering to it does.
01:24:21.760 surrendering to it does she just summed up the entire book 400 page book she sums it up in one
01:24:30.000 sentence i'm like well we didn't even need to write the book erica came along and wrote the
01:24:35.680 forward this could have been a tweet that's right that's right megan i mean she's so insightful
01:24:42.280 there's many other insights right there in that two and a half page forward uh that i said this
01:24:48.300 woman understands. She's moving forward. You know, there's a philosopher by the name of Peter
01:24:52.780 Kreft, who just a number of years ago wrote a book on suffering. And I'm paraphrasing what he
01:25:01.020 said in here, but this is what his insight was about suffering, taking it from the totality
01:25:08.180 of scripture. He said that this life is not about fulfillment. It's not about happiness.
01:25:16.440 it's not about security he said the purpose of this life is training he said this world
01:25:24.620 makes a lousy home but it makes a wonderful gymnasium and i went wow because as you just
01:25:34.840 pointed out she becomes more and more of a superhero the more difficulty that she goes
01:25:40.760 through. Scripturally, this is when you go through difficulty, you become more and more like Jesus if
01:25:47.060 you choose to be, to be conformed to the image of his son. That's from Romans chapter 8, Paul's
01:25:52.220 letter to the Romans. And that's what's happening. In fact, you know how she ends this? She ends this
01:25:58.080 whole forward in here, Megan, with this phrase. She says, I'm just going to read the last couple
01:26:04.560 sentences. Although my husband is now absent from this world, but present with the Lord he loved,
01:26:08.820 He lived his life in such an inspiring way, knowing that his faith rested on the confidence
01:26:14.040 that reality belonged to no one and nothing else but God.
01:26:17.980 And I pray you can find freedom in that as well.
01:26:21.280 Count it all joy, Erica Kirk.
01:26:23.700 Count it all joy.
01:26:25.180 She's quoting from the Apostle James, who, by the way, himself was martyred for his faith
01:26:30.860 in Jesus, because in the first chapter of his book that he wrote, he says, count it
01:26:36.480 all joy when you fall into various trials, because the testing of your faith produces
01:26:42.080 patience. In other words, she's saying that going through all this suffering, I'm going to count it
01:26:47.020 joy, because I know it's going to make me better and more like Jesus in the long term.
01:26:52.900 Yes, I believe she means that, because she's shown a very high ability to withstand
01:27:01.240 bullying. You know, I mean, she, she has, and I don't, I don't, it's not exactly what she signed
01:27:08.180 up for. You know, she wanted to marry Charlie. She loved Charlie. She wanted to be a mom. She
01:27:12.560 wanted to be a good wife. She was both of those things. And she was thrust in the national 0.97
01:27:16.340 spotlight, not by her own desire. You know, that's the thing. People treat her like she
01:27:21.460 was some sort of fame seeker. She wasn't, she wasn't at all. This happened to her and she's 0.94
01:27:28.540 been managing it as best as she can with the support of a lot of people who love her.
01:27:32.820 Megan, I was just going to say, a lot of people don't realize that Erica was a CEO of two
01:27:39.040 companies before she ever met Charlie. I mean, she had her own clothing line. I think she still does.
01:27:45.400 She had her own Bible 365 business, which is really a ministry, not a business, but she was
01:27:52.000 the head of it to read through the Bible in a year. Charlie did not marry her just for her beauty.
01:27:59.260 I mean, she is...
01:28:00.740 Oh, yeah, no, he knew what he had.
01:28:03.340 Charlie was exceptional.
01:28:04.860 He married an exceptional woman.
01:28:07.900 I mean...
01:28:08.440 And he knew.
01:28:09.240 He knew even when he was alive and thinking that they would grow old together,
01:28:14.540 that he had a wife who could represent his organization as he would want.
01:28:20.980 God forbid anything ever happened to him.
01:28:23.160 He understood that Erica had those gifts,
01:28:25.780 even though they were being used in different ways.
01:28:28.540 But I want to get back to you because she writes in the book something that wasn't surprising
01:28:35.400 in the foreword about you, that the following, quote, I'll never forget the moment several
01:28:40.840 years ago, this is January 2020 she's referring to, when Charlie told me he had reached out
01:28:45.580 to Frank Turek via email.
01:28:47.240 He was so excited but realistic in his expectations, quote, I'm not sure if he'll respond, but
01:28:52.280 it's worth a try.
01:28:53.560 I hugged him and said, I'm so glad you did.
01:28:55.640 if it's God's will, he'll respond. If not, at least you tried. Sure enough, Frank responded
01:29:02.360 and our friendship grew from there. He was so thrilled to have you in his life, Frank,
01:29:07.040 but unlike most of us, unlike 99% of the world, Charlie reached out to the people he admired
01:29:12.960 and tried to have relationships with them. And you didn't know him from Adam in the beginning,
01:29:18.200 but you two would become like family. Yeah, he was like a son to me. I was twice his age,
01:29:24.120 megan and he wanted me to mentor him and what we call christian apologetics evidence for the faith
01:29:32.000 that god exists that jesus rose from the dead that the bible is telling the truth and you know
01:29:36.260 it can be hard to mentor someone smarter than you but not with charlie because the only thing
01:29:41.100 that exceeded his intellect was his humility and i can say honestly megan i learned more from him
01:29:47.740 than he learned from me and by the way you were one of the mentors in his life too he had so many
01:29:53.640 mentors. In fact, I may have mentioned this to you before, but your audience may not have heard
01:29:57.860 this. Probably a couple of months before he was murdered, we went on one of our walks and he said
01:30:04.500 to me, because we'd walk at night after he put the kids down. And he said to me, hey, I got to,
01:30:09.740 we got to go quickly because I got to get back. I got to get to bed because I'm on Megan's show
01:30:14.440 tomorrow. And I looked at him and I said, Charlie, if there's any person in the world, I would rather
01:30:21.020 not to debate on a legal issue, it's Megyn Kelly.
01:30:25.060 And he looked at me and he said, totally.
01:30:28.920 So he relied on you, Megyn.
01:30:31.480 He really did.
01:30:32.980 Because you, as I've told you before, I'm not just saying this,
01:30:36.620 you are the clearest legal mind on the internet.
01:30:40.700 Like when I want to know like, you know, the Clancy thing
01:30:44.480 or even the Tyler Robinson thing, like what procedurally is going on?
01:30:49.160 What's happening?
01:30:49.960 I tune into you.
01:30:51.020 because you just cut right through it
01:30:53.420 and you get right to the point.
01:30:55.600 That's a great gift that you have.
01:30:58.240 You're so nice to compliment me.
01:31:00.420 You are the one who I've been turning to this year
01:31:03.520 as I delve into for the first time Christian apologetics,
01:31:07.260 as I've been looking for something to hold onto
01:31:09.580 in the wake of Charlie's death,
01:31:11.720 as I deal, I'm past it now,
01:31:14.820 but as I was dealing with what I felt was anger toward God.
01:31:19.020 And I remember asking Erica about whether she was angry, whether she felt angry with God after Charlie's death.
01:31:28.040 And her response was, the enemy would love for me to be angry.
01:31:33.180 Oh, yeah.
01:31:33.800 Oh, my God, that's so good.
01:31:36.100 And she was even then able to master her emotion, you know, and accept this is real.
01:31:44.840 this is my reality, and how I respond is up to me, which was actually a very strong and insightful
01:31:51.500 way to deal with it. And it's kind of one of the themes of your book. Reality is reality. There's
01:31:57.060 no your reality. There's no my reality. There's only reality. And the rest of us are going to
01:32:01.900 have to deal with that, although there is a war on it. Yes. And reality is undefeated. I mean,
01:32:09.220 you can deny reality, you can fight against it, but ultimately reality is going to win.
01:32:14.920 And so what we try and do in the book, and by the way, this book was being written nine months
01:32:18.480 before Charlie was murdered. It was really having nothing to do with Charlie. But when he was
01:32:23.580 murdered, Megan, both my co-author and I, Phoenix Hayes, who's a brilliant writer, by the way,
01:32:28.260 very witty, she said, and I said, we both agree, this book has to be dedicated to Charlie
01:32:33.880 because Charlie was fighting for reality while many people were fighting against reality.
01:32:40.320 So the book is dedicated to him.
01:32:41.800 The first chapter is called Murder on Campus.
01:32:44.920 It tells what happened up to that day because Charlie and I were with one another for the three days prior to the murder,
01:32:51.960 what happened that day and then what has happened since.
01:32:54.760 And then we get into so many other issues related to the denial of reality,
01:32:58.460 whether it's that men can have babies or there are an infinite number of genders or that there is no truth.
01:33:03.420 that just, when people say that, Megan, I always say, is that true? Is it true? There's no truth.
01:33:07.660 I mean, it's crazy. I love that. I mean, there's it. It's how you deal with the atheist. Yes.
01:33:13.460 Yes. It's so self-contradictory. The war on reality is self-contradictory. I mean,
01:33:18.700 some of these people are saying that, you know, reason is a tool of oppression as they try and
01:33:23.460 reason us to that conclusion. You know, Megan, it's, it's, it's bizarre and it's gone completely
01:33:29.420 away from the Bible and completely away from Martin Luther King, who said, let's not judge
01:33:34.040 people on the color of their skin, but the content of their character. Now we're judging people,
01:33:38.800 according to cultural Marxism, based on what particular identity groups they're in.
01:33:44.080 You know, if you're a white, heterosexual, Christian male who's a citizen of the United 0.54
01:33:49.400 States, you're automatically considered an oppressor. And guess what? Charlie Kirk had 0.75
01:33:53.880 all of those qualities. That's why. Yes. Yes. Sorry. Go ahead. Go ahead.
01:33:59.420 No, I was going to say it's one of the reasons why we're seeing these just demonic people out there, even this week, celebrating the one year mark of his assassination.
01:34:07.860 A father, a husband, a business leader celebrating it still, even with a year to reflect and understand and do a little searching on the Internet to figure out who it was.
01:34:19.180 They don't care. He already started with an L because of those things you just.
01:34:22.700 Yes, yes. And by contrast, if you're on the other side, if you're a person of color, if you're LGBTQ, if you're a non-citizen, you're automatically considered, and bonus points, by the way, if you're an illegal immigrant, you're automatically considered oppressed.
01:34:38.360 so you should be heard and uh the so-called oppressor group should not be heard and it got
01:34:44.720 to the point where it seems like tyler robinson was so radicalized that he thought that charlie
01:34:50.720 was a fascist that needed to be murdered because megan we all know a typical fascist tactic as
01:34:58.260 mussolini taught us was hand your opponent the microphone and let him make his case while you 0.99
01:35:04.760 quietly listen and then you have a discussion no the guy that shot him is a fascist it's not
01:35:10.800 charlie kirk charlie kirk was a christian man who wanted to bring the truth to people and he was
01:35:17.120 willing to put himself in harm's way to do so um thankfully all they were able to do is change his
01:35:23.620 address the rest of us have to move on and keep moving forward and that's why good logical thinking
01:35:31.940 that you provide here on this program is so important. Because in the book, we talk about
01:35:36.700 the illogic of what so many on the left are engaged in. I mean, from self-contradictory
01:35:44.060 statements like there is no truth, to saying that if you have certain qualities, you're an
01:35:50.120 oppressor, and if not, you're oppressed, and claiming that there is no God, but then they
01:35:54.960 claim they have rights. Well, there are no rights if there is no God. Everything's just a matter of
01:35:59.400 opinion. It's just your opinion against somebody else's opinion. And so what we're trying to—
01:36:04.100 Well, that's what I was going to ask you. How much of this, what we're seeing, this war on reality,
01:36:09.600 is the result of people pushing faith out of their lives, religion out of the public square,
01:36:15.600 references to God must be snuffed out, et cetera? How much is rooted in that?
01:36:19.720 I think a lot of it is because the Apostle Paul wrote in, again, his letter to the Romans chapter
01:36:25.100 1, that when you suppress the truth long enough, God will give you over to a depraved mind to the
01:36:31.540 point where you're not only doing evil yourself, you're cheering on other people who are doing
01:36:36.540 evil. Megan, what did we have? Three weeks ago, the governor of Massachusetts signed the bill
01:36:41.360 where you could actually execute your child up to the moment of birth, and they're applauding this.
01:36:47.100 They're applauding it. And everybody knows, OBGYNs, all doctors know that if there's a problem in the
01:36:54.280 third trimester of pregnancy, if you have to take the baby, you don't have to kill the baby.
01:37:00.260 You can do a C-section, save the baby, and then give health care to the mother. There is never
01:37:06.280 a reason in the third trimester to have a baby die in order to save a mother, and yet that's
01:37:13.400 what the law was that they passed. It's a sacrament to them. In fact, think about it this way.
01:37:20.580 The Lord said in John chapter 6, this is my body.
01:37:25.860 He's talking about the Eucharist.
01:37:28.340 That is the same terminology the pro-abortion side uses.
01:37:33.600 This is my body.
01:37:36.060 They're actually mocking it like it's a sacrament to them.
01:37:41.980 I mean, when you suppress your conscience, when you suppress the truth long enough,
01:37:48.820 You're given over to a depraved mind because God pulls back.
01:37:52.440 He says, I know you don't want me, so I'm going to pull back.
01:37:54.680 And then you have so much of these evil acts that have been committed, whether it's the murder of Charlie or the murders of the kids at the Annunciation School in Minneapolis or, I mean, or the Clancy murders.
01:38:08.260 I mean, they're hearing voices, Megan.
01:38:11.380 This is demonic activity.
01:38:12.600 I'm sorry.
01:38:12.960 It just is.
01:38:13.780 It's demonic activity.
01:38:15.060 That's what I wanted to talk about.
01:38:16.400 Can you please expand on that? 0.97
01:38:17.340 Yes, Jesus and the apostles called Satan a murderer, liar, accuser, and slanderer who seeks to steal, kill, and destroy. 0.93
01:38:25.700 Well, let's just take Charlie's situation. 0.87
01:38:27.660 We had a murder one year ago.
01:38:29.100 What have we had since then?
01:38:30.420 We've had lies, accusations, and slanderers seeking to steal, kill, and destroy.
01:38:35.340 And people don't believe in the demonic.
01:38:37.000 I'm going, how could it be more obvious?
01:38:38.660 This is exactly what's going on.
01:38:40.420 they're running down a widow a widow who has two fatherless children now and they don't have facts
01:38:50.840 all they have is speculation they don't have evidence i mean look anything's possible megan
01:38:57.500 charlie could have been killed by an alien that's possible but do we have any evidence for that no
01:39:02.880 and you of all people know this better than anyone when you go to a courtroom you better
01:39:06.840 have evidence, not just speculation. And that's all we've had. Slander. That is what I have felt
01:39:13.580 is the antidote to all of that, Frank. As you know, you and I have talked about it privately,
01:39:17.680 and I've talked about it with my audience. I really feel the antidote to those kinds of
01:39:21.540 messages is just to stick within provable facts. And in this case, that would be admissible into
01:39:29.760 evidence. That's the playing field that we are on. You know, this is a court case that we're
01:39:34.800 dealing with here. And if you just follow those simple rules, you will get to the right result.
01:39:40.740 You will. You will not be misled. You will not run down roads that you should not be taken down.
01:39:45.880 And I spend no time chasing them because I just think it's almost it's worse for the audience to
01:39:52.740 have all of that entertained at all. Just we're going to stick with facts and you will not be
01:39:57.160 misled on this program. And I feel like I can live up to. Can I ask you a legal question, Megan,
01:40:01.720 on this yeah yeah in my experience from the people that i know in this field they will say that um
01:40:09.080 eyewitnesses always agree on the major event but they disagree on details you know i saw the guy
01:40:15.900 shoot him but was it an orange jacket oh i thought it was a red jacket right so they they always
01:40:20.900 agree on the central fact but they disagree on the details yet i see some of the conspiracy 0.59
01:40:25.760 theorists saying that inconsistencies between the eyewitnesses on details some somehow proves
01:40:31.320 they're in collusion. I think it's the opposite. What's your view? Here's my view. You and I would
01:40:37.420 do better to stare at our navels and just look at them for the next hour than to have that 0.74
01:40:43.440 conversation. This is pointless. You're playing the wrong game. I mean, I've talked to everybody
01:40:49.100 at Turning Point about this from Erica on down. I just don't think it serves anybody to start
01:40:55.220 picking little pieces of what these people think happened to Charlie up and combating it. I really
01:41:02.360 don't. Frank, conspiracy theorists or people who buy into conspiracy, whatever, I don't mean to
01:41:06.960 sound pejorative about, you know, if that, it's a free country, you can believe what you want to
01:41:10.260 believe, but they will not be disabused of their beliefs. They, not by facts, not by eyewitness
01:41:17.460 testimony, not by a court verdict, not by any of it. So truly it is pointless to spend time over
01:41:24.980 that target. Our target should be reality. It should be what is real, not what is not real.
01:41:31.380 It should be what is real. What do we know? Starting with God and coming right down to the
01:41:36.340 evidence in this case, which is overwhelming against Tyler Robinson. And honest to my own
01:41:41.440 point of view is while I don't support these narratives, obviously Eric had nothing to do
01:41:45.820 with Charlie's murder. It's despicable to say otherwise. It's the internet. It's going to do
01:41:51.760 what it's going to do.
01:41:53.040 It's done it in so many different cases.
01:41:55.020 Right now, they're blaming Patrick Clancy
01:41:56.460 instead of Lindsay.
01:41:57.720 It's not controllable.
01:41:59.760 And the more time we spend
01:42:01.840 trying to chase down that theory,
01:42:03.740 the less time we spend
01:42:05.220 in what you want us to spend on,
01:42:07.600 which is reality.
01:42:09.880 Spend time there.
01:42:11.000 That's what's uplifting.
01:42:12.080 That's what's godlike.
01:42:12.980 That's what's infusing with positivity
01:42:15.780 in your life as opposed to this dark force,
01:42:18.280 which can take you just down
01:42:19.520 so many rabbit holes
01:42:20.620 where nothing good will come to you.
01:42:23.080 Yeah, well said.
01:42:24.340 And that's what our legal system is designed to do as well.
01:42:28.100 You have to bring the facts.
01:42:29.220 I'm going to write the epilogue to your book.
01:42:30.540 I'm going to write the epilogue on the online version.
01:42:35.060 Frank, I love talking to you.
01:42:37.080 I wish we had longer time.
01:42:38.080 I want everybody to buy the book.
01:42:39.580 It's called The War on Reality.
01:42:40.740 And while you're at it, buy, listen to, and read
01:42:44.540 whatever Frank Turek puts out
01:42:47.260 if you want to enhance your life and your wellness.
01:42:50.180 Thank you so much for everything you've done for all of us.
01:42:54.020 Megan, one of the benefits of an awful event was me getting to know you.
01:42:59.480 So thank you for your friendship.
01:43:01.580 Thank you for having me on.
01:43:04.480 It's one of the positives out of a very awful event.
01:43:07.840 I appreciate knowing you and appreciate talking with you.
01:43:09.980 Thank you.
01:43:10.420 I feel the same.
01:43:11.660 I feel the same.
01:43:13.320 Again, it's Frank Turek.
01:43:14.900 The book is The War on Reality.
01:43:16.580 It's available now.
01:43:17.260 You can get it.
01:43:18.260 I'm sure Charlie would love for you to read it.
01:43:19.680 We're back tomorrow with more as we continue to honor Charlie Kirk.
01:43:23.420 We'll see you then.
01:43:24.640 Thanks for listening to The Megyn Kelly Show.
01:43:26.600 No BS, no agenda, and no fear.
01:43:34.600 Today's episode was brought to you by SuperSure.