The Megyn Kelly Show - Alec Baldwin ＂Rust＂ Movie Set Deadly Shooting： Deep Dive Into All Legal Angles, with Viva Frei ｜ Ep. 441

00:00:00.420 Welcome to The Megyn Kelly Show, your home for open, honest, and provocative conversations.

00:00:11.640 Hey everyone, I'm Megyn Kelly. Welcome to The Megyn Kelly Show.

00:00:15.200 On October 21st last year, police and EMTs were dispatched to the Bonanza Creek Ranch in Santa Fe, New Mexico.

00:00:23.420 The call to 911 relayed that two people had been accidentally shot on the Rust movie set.

00:00:30.000 And they needed help immediately.

00:00:32.620 Cinematographer Helena Hutchins' injuries would soon after prove to be fatal.

00:00:38.160 And director Joel Sousa thankfully only suffered an injured shoulder from the very same bullet that passed through Helena.

00:00:45.700 More than a year later, no one has faced criminal charges in connection with the accidental death of Hutchins.

00:00:51.600 But one fact remains clear.

00:00:54.000 Actor Alec Baldwin was holding the gun that killed this up-and-coming filmmaker.

00:01:00.000 Shortly after we taped this episode, the Santa Fe County Sheriff's Office released a 551-page report into the Rust investigation.

00:01:08.720 The report did little to answer the crucial questions a year later.

00:01:13.760 There are still no answers as to how live ammunition made its way to the Rust set.

00:01:18.620 Nor did the report make any judgments on whether criminal charges should be filed.

00:01:22.980 That's in the hands of the DA.

00:01:24.060 It did, however, release some text messages from Alec Baldwin to Hutchins' husband, insisting that he and the cinematographer believed the gun was empty.

00:01:36.040 Baldwin also suggested that there may be a sabotage angle and also told an assistant, quote,

00:01:42.120 I have to delete my archive.

00:01:44.700 By the way, that's never something you should put in writing.

00:01:47.200 But Baldwin's lawyer says that was in reference to his Twitter account and unrelated to the case.

00:01:53.640 Lawyer-turned-YouTuber David Freiheit, better known to his audience as Aviva Fry, has followed this story quite closely.

00:02:01.800 He joins us to discuss it all in this special episode.

00:02:04.640 But first, a little background on David because he's fascinating in his own right.

00:02:08.360 David was on track to make partner at one of the most prominent law firms in Canada when he left to start his own practice.

00:02:15.300 Shortly after he struck out on his own, he got a GoPro for Christmas, which changed his entire trajectory.

00:02:22.300 I love this.

00:02:23.440 He now has over 500,000 subscribers on his YouTube channel, where he dissects the latest news through his unique and fair legal perspective.

00:02:33.100 And somewhere in there, he even found time to run for the Canadian Parliament.

00:02:37.200 David, welcome to the show.

00:02:40.480 Megan, thank you for having me on.

00:02:42.760 Oh, the pleasure's all mine.

00:02:44.060 So it's amazing to think that this was only a year ago that this happened.

00:02:48.620 And this was like, just to set the stage, this was a small movie production.

00:02:53.320 This was not like, you know, big superhero type budget.

00:02:55.840 It was relatively small.

00:02:57.400 Alec Baldwin is not as big a star as he used to be.

00:03:01.120 And he was, in addition to the star, the executive producer, which will become relevant legally.

00:03:07.340 Oh, yeah.

00:03:07.580 No, no.

00:03:08.080 It's well, it feels like a lot more than a year ago.

00:03:11.480 We celebrated.

00:03:13.100 There was the year anniversary.

00:03:14.100 I remember where I was when this happened, where the news broke that it has since become a sad Internet meme.

00:03:22.260 Alec Baldwin killed a woman on a set and it hadn't happened in a long time.

00:03:26.900 And it at first, you know, people were jumping on it for the firearm safety aspect of it or the gun control aspect.

00:03:33.840 But my goodness, as it evolved into something much deeper and, you know, infiltrated by politics, to put it mildly.

00:03:43.600 There's video of Alec Baldwin right after the shooting.

00:03:47.820 I want to make sure I don't mischaracterize it, but it was obtained by TMZ.

00:03:51.140 And you can see him sitting with Dave Halls, the movie's assistant director, associate director.

00:03:56.720 And Baldwin asked a question about Helena and how she's doing.

00:04:01.560 Here's just a bit of that moment.

00:04:03.620 Stand by.

00:04:04.300 Stop one.

00:04:05.220 Okay.

00:04:06.660 He is.

00:04:07.560 That's her story.

00:04:09.160 A little bit rougher.

00:04:11.760 Oh, why not?

00:04:12.720 It was the shoulder, though.

00:04:15.220 Control.

00:04:15.940 How many now?

00:04:16.820 Where did it?

00:04:17.400 So hers appeared to look.

00:04:19.020 It went through her right underarm. 0.97

00:04:22.280 Yeah.

00:04:22.680 And the exit point was on her back left shoulder blade. 1.00

00:04:27.540 It went through.

00:04:30.040 Oh, my God.

00:04:35.220 Yeah.

00:04:35.860 Enough to get air flight.

00:04:37.900 So.

00:04:39.600 Oh, I mean, he he seems distraught.

00:04:42.720 And I don't think there's anybody accusing Alec Baldwin of intentionally hurting Helena Hutchins.

00:04:50.980 The question is whether there was negligence or recklessness in this case, but not intentionality.

00:04:56.000 Right.

00:04:57.360 Well, there were at the beginning some theories.

00:04:59.960 You know, the Internet is what it is.

00:05:01.700 People were hypothesizing about sabotage, deliberate, you know, placing live ammunition on set.

00:05:08.580 People jump down some very deep rabbit holes, make some connections because Hollywood and politics intertwine.

00:05:15.560 But by and large, no, nobody's suggesting this was deliberate sabotage, an attempt to get someone hurt.

00:05:21.040 And it would have been so astronomical to even get that to happen in the first place, because in the ordinary run of things, people are not pulling triggers, even if they are on prop guns.

00:05:31.400 And I'm putting the word prop in quotes because people think prop guns mean fake guns when they just mean real guns, functional guns that happen to be the property of the set.

00:05:40.200 You know, the idea that this would have been a malicious sabotage at the time, there were some ideas that the crew were upset.

00:05:49.380 People were angry.

00:05:50.460 Maybe someone threw in a live at a live round here to sabotage.

00:05:54.960 But deliberate acts.

00:05:56.680 No, the question does become, is it criminal negligence?

00:05:59.660 Although I think that question is obviously answered in the affirmative and to the extent it's answered in the affirmative, who's criminally negligent here in under the legal sense to suffer some consequences or get charged with something?

00:06:12.420 Eventually, there would be a simulation of the shooting death of Helena Hutchins, who was, again, the cinematographer shooting Alec Baldwin with her camera.

00:06:22.260 And he was using a gun, a prop gun that he did not think was loaded with actual live rounds.

00:06:28.900 And he'd been told it was a, quote, cold gun.

00:06:31.080 But eventually, there in support of the lawsuit that they ultimately filed, lawyers for the family of Helena Hutchins' family submitted this video.

00:06:40.140 It was a simulation of what they believe happened.

00:06:41.980 I think it's probably helpful if we show it to the audience now and then we can talk about it.

00:06:45.900 Here it is.

00:06:46.280 It's Sot 7.

00:06:52.260 It's disturbing even to see in a simulation, but it shows him it shows Helena Hutchins a little bit to the side of the camera, like she's kind of cheating the side of the of the camera. 0.97

00:07:06.560 He takes out the gun and pulls the trigger.

00:07:09.220 Now, that is what we believe happened, despite what Alec Baldwin would later tell the world, right, that he did point the gun in her direction and did pull the trigger.

00:07:19.680 But Baldwin's one of his bigger curses is the inability to not make public statements at critical junctures.

00:07:27.680 He's made a lot of conflicting statements, but his initial defense was I never pulled the trigger.

00:07:34.000 He did make some subsequent statements that he pulled the hammer back.

00:07:38.180 I am not a firearm aficionado.

00:07:40.940 I've learned a fair bit about older guns and guns in this context, but there is the question about whether or not you could pull back the hammer and then release it without pulling the trigger.

00:07:53.680 But most people agree that with a two lock system, as was the case with this firearm, you would have to have the trigger compressed in order to release the hammer and have it potentially strike the figure with the part of the gun of the bullet to release it.

00:08:07.100 He said he never pulled the trigger, but yet admitted that he pulled the hammer back as per the instructions of Helena Hutchins.

00:08:13.320 But just with respect to that graphic, that graphic was undoubtedly generated to create the image for I'm not going to say not shock purpose, but so people can visualize how horrific it was.

00:08:24.280 But that graphic is effectively what everyone stated occurred from the beginning.

00:08:29.160 They're doing some scene.

00:08:31.300 Helena is telling Alec what to do with the gun, how to frame it, and it goes off.

00:08:38.180 But it would always be Alec's point of defense that he never pulled the trigger to suggest that maybe there was some malfunction.

00:08:43.400 But that theory, implausible as it was at the very beginning in any event, seems to have been debunked by the FBI investigation, which concluded someone had to pull the trigger given the nature of this type of gun.

00:08:56.080 And even if someone pulled the hammer back and released it and it struck the primer and discharged a live ammunition, the trigger would have had to have been compressed in any event.

00:09:05.460 In which case, I think we might be getting into a bit of semantics as to whether he pulled the trigger versus compressed the trigger, then pulled the hammer back and released the hammer.

00:09:12.280 But separate discussion.

00:09:14.100 Either way, no, but it was interesting because I think the fact that he lied is going to be very relevant.

00:09:18.260 So I don't think anybody and I don't think a jury is ever going to believe him that he did not pull the trigger once they get experts on the stand who testify, as you just said, that this gun, this Colt 45 cannot like the law enforcement, the FBI looked at it and said, you cannot fire this gun without pulling the trigger.

00:09:34.220 There's too many fail safes on it.

00:09:35.460 And they looked at this gun that he used.

00:09:38.200 But notwithstanding all that, let me play the soundbite.

00:09:40.460 He told George Stephanopoulos, among others, that he did not pull the trigger.

00:09:43.920 His top four isn't in the script for the trigger to be pulled.

00:09:47.900 Well, the trigger wasn't, but I didn't pull the trigger.

00:09:50.100 So you never pulled the trigger.

00:09:51.460 No, no, no, no, no.

00:09:52.280 I would never point a gun at anyone and pull a trigger at them.

00:09:54.560 Never.

00:09:55.500 Honestly, can I just say, David, that that to me is he's a good actor.

00:09:58.940 He actually is a good actor.

00:10:00.100 And you can see it in that clip because I do believe he's lying.

00:10:03.400 I do believe that the law enforcement's correct.

00:10:06.100 He had to have pulled the trigger.

00:10:07.540 And you can see he's a good actor.

00:10:08.820 He's selling that story pretty well right there.

00:10:11.160 Well, it's the me thinks he doth protest it too much.

00:10:13.960 It's it's I may be wrong in my body language analysis or behavioral analysis, but I've been

00:10:18.740 a lawyer for long enough.

00:10:19.640 A practicing attorney to have come to certain conclusions that no, no, no, no, no, no.

00:10:24.260 And he does it multiple times in that interview.

00:10:26.520 I think that's a telling.

00:10:27.900 No, no, no, no, no.

00:10:28.500 That's like sort of trying to deny something that he feels to be true just to give Alec Baldwin

00:10:33.320 the absolute benefit of the doubt and to play devil's advocate, possibly literally.

00:10:37.860 Um, when he says I didn't pull the trigger in his mind, there could be a difference between

00:10:42.860 pulling the trigger to activate the hammer versus, you know, in a subsequent interview,

00:10:47.380 not sure if you're going to have it, but he talks about feathering, uh, the hammer feathering

00:10:51.540 a gun.

00:10:51.860 You ever heard of feathering?

00:10:52.600 He said with his Cuomo interview in his mind, there could be a difference between, uh, compressing

00:10:58.540 the trigger while pulling the hammer back and then releasing the hammer.

00:11:02.920 And in his mind, it doesn't feel like he pulled the trigger to cause the hammer to snap back.

00:11:07.540 I, I, I, that's conceptually possible.

00:11:09.800 So it might be that he doesn't think he's lying.

00:11:11.900 I happen to have a very different theory about all of this.

00:11:15.500 My underlying theory, I put it in the video.

00:11:18.140 It's my humble opinion.

00:11:19.100 So let that be known is that, uh, I think he might've pulled the trigger on purpose out

00:11:23.820 of frustration or something thinking there were only blanks in there.

00:11:27.000 Uh, I, I, I put together a whole 15 minute analysis, breaking down various interviews he

00:11:31.920 gave, um, I think that's probably more plausible.

00:11:35.260 Just thought there were blanks, uh, and didn't mean for any of this to happen.

00:11:38.960 The question then becomes, how did live rounds get into that gun and onto that set?

00:11:42.800 But at the end of the day, we're definitely going to get into that.

00:11:46.280 That's the heart of the whole case.

00:11:47.320 I mean, how, but, but I'm sort of starting at the, the, the, the beginning, which is the,

00:11:51.280 the incident, him pulling the trigger.

00:11:53.600 He's the one we all focused on.

00:11:55.260 Why did he fire a live gun?

00:11:57.000 Did he fire a live gun, a gun with a live round in it?

00:12:00.040 Did he do that?

00:12:00.880 And I believe he, I do.

00:12:02.880 I believe he pulled the trigger and he fired a gun thinking that there were only blanks

00:12:06.880 in it or, you know, uh, dummy rounds and that nobody was going to be in danger.

00:12:10.880 Um, he now is denying it because a woman died and he accurately foresaw he was going to be 0.99

00:12:16.260 the subject of litigation.

00:12:18.320 But does it matter?

00:12:19.520 Is that, is he, um, is he more potentially liable if he actually pulled the trigger?

00:12:24.480 Because his main defense is who the hell knew it had a live round in it.

00:12:28.500 Well, you see that that's, uh, now again, I'm, I'm, I'm a civil lawyer in Quebec and not

00:12:33.000 a criminal lawyer, let alone a criminal lawyer in New Mexico.

00:12:35.820 Uh, but there are, there are various charges that can result from this deliberate, deliberate

00:12:41.460 act, you know, no negligent homicide, or I think it'd be involuntary manslaughter under, uh,

00:12:48.240 New Mexico law.

00:12:49.520 Yeah.

00:12:49.980 I mean, when his reaction was, why the hell was there a live round in it?

00:12:53.920 Um, and not how the hell did this thing go off?

00:12:57.460 That's, that's telling to me from an interpretive perspective.

00:13:00.520 And it's always, why the hell he said it in many interviews, the question that has to

00:13:04.180 be answered is why was there a live round in that gun?

00:13:07.140 Nobody's going to believe he didn't pull the trigger because I, from my understanding,

00:13:11.140 from the physics of it, the only way that that could have gone off without the trigger

00:13:14.540 being pulled is if it's in, you know, the, the, the hammers down and something bangs

00:13:20.120 the hammer into the primer to trigger the primer.

00:13:23.020 Uh, nobody's going to believe he didn't pull the trigger and that his point that he keeps

00:13:27.080 bringing up over and over again in every interview, we need to find out the only question that's

00:13:30.420 relevant is how did live rounds get there to me, that, that, that confirms the idea that

00:13:34.980 he pulled the trigger.

00:13:35.820 He might be trying to pretend in his own mind retroactively.

00:13:38.860 He didn't, but he did.

00:13:40.500 And then the question does become, well, he pulled the trigger on purpose.

00:13:43.160 No idea that there was a live round in there, although even pulling the trigger on purpose,

00:13:47.720 thinking it's blanks, or there's another word I'm looking for this, there's different types

00:13:52.380 of dummy rounds, even pulling the trigger then still has risk.

00:13:56.200 There was a, someone, I forget the name.

00:13:58.940 A lot of my information, by the way, I get from watching these guys, Eric Hunley and Mark

00:14:02.800 Robert on America's untold stories.

00:14:04.820 Robert has a history of life in, in, in Hollywood.

00:14:08.740 And he knows, you know, other cases where there was an individual who put a gun to his head

00:14:13.040 as a joke.

00:14:13.840 It was, it was a, a dummy.

00:14:16.260 It was a, didn't this happen with Bruce Lee's son?

00:14:19.220 Bruce Lee's was different.

00:14:20.260 Bruce Lee's was, uh, apparently, uh, something got lodged in the actual gun.

00:14:25.000 I think it was, it was a projectile of some sort projectile from the previous shot.

00:14:28.680 And then the, the dummy round or the blank had enough projection to cause the piece that

00:14:34.460 was stuck in the gun to, to, to go out and kill with enough force.

00:14:37.100 But one, one actor put, put a blank gun to his head, pulled the trigger and the concussive

00:14:41.720 force of the blank going off, uh, caused him to die from the injuries a couple of days

00:14:45.540 later.

00:14:45.780 So even pulling the trigger, thinking it's blanks, uh, is a different degree of negligence.

00:14:50.540 It's not like a, like a cap gun, but my theory aside, the FBI confirms that gun didn't go

00:14:56.360 off on its own.

00:14:57.820 Someone had to pull the trigger.

00:14:59.320 Uh, and then it's just going to be a question of what types of charges and who bears the

00:15:02.460 responsibility.

00:15:03.420 How did live rounds get there is one question, but anybody with Baldwin's experience with

00:15:08.980 guns and it conflicts with some of his statements earlier, he knew you'd never pull the trigger

00:15:13.300 of a gun.

00:15:13.920 You never point a gun at a person.

00:15:15.280 And he seems to have done both of these things.

00:15:17.060 So there might be shared responsibility, but if it doesn't come down at the very least

00:15:21.680 to Alec Baldwin, um, in one way or another, we can probably add something else to the list

00:15:27.180 of what politics ruins.

00:15:28.920 Yeah.

00:15:29.100 I mean, we can definitely talk about the fact that he was an executive producer on the project.

00:15:32.460 And whether he should have been overseeing a safer work site for all involved, that's

00:15:36.400 definitely one of the theories against him.

00:15:37.820 But here we're still debating whether he could be subjected to civil or potentially criminal

00:15:42.660 liability.

00:15:43.740 Forget the EP role for the guy as the guy who fired the gun and whether he had a greater

00:15:49.420 obligation to make sure it really was a cold gun because some of his own fellow fellow actors

00:15:54.600 are saying that, you know, George Clooney came out and said, I never rely on the assistant

00:16:00.040 director to tell me it's a cold gun.

00:16:02.280 Like, it's fine to have him say that.

00:16:03.980 But I always look myself and make sure.

00:16:06.940 Now, that's presuming you would be able to tell.

00:16:09.940 But there are other actors.

00:16:11.840 And it wasn't just Clooney coming out to say, we all we all check ourselves.

00:16:16.000 And we would also never fire the gun if the armorer were not on set.

00:16:21.220 And here the armorer was not on set.

00:16:23.560 And Alec Baldwin did not check the gun himself.

00:16:25.840 So even if you don't expand it to he was an executive producer, even if you just keep

00:16:29.680 it at he shot, he fired the weapon.

00:16:32.660 You know, there's some incremental evidence that he may have behaved negligently.

00:16:37.780 Well, Megan, I've been corrected multiple times in referring to it as a weapon and not

00:16:42.340 a firearm.

00:16:42.940 So I've been conditioned now to refer and rightly so to the to these things as firearms.

00:16:48.580 There's a number of things there in what you just said.

00:16:51.220 George Clooney, Will Smith.

00:16:53.140 First of all, everyone's going to, you know, when something like this happens, come out and

00:16:56.560 show how much smarter they are and how much more responsible they are.

00:16:59.060 To some extent, I understand Baldwin's position, which is I'm not the last line of defense here.

00:17:04.620 That's why we hire an armorer. 0.58

00:17:05.840 I'm not the one to be relied on to open it back up and say, OK, these are dummy rounds.

00:17:10.480 I understand that defense.

00:17:12.420 Baldwin's biggest problem, because he can't he can't stop talking, is that he comes out 0.81

00:17:16.700 and says in the George Stephanopoulos Stephanopoulos interview, I would never point a gun at

00:17:21.280 someone I know better than that.

00:17:22.480 But he did.

00:17:23.360 I would never pull the trigger, you know, even if it's even if it's empty, because pulling

00:17:28.260 the trigger causes, you know, minute damages to the firing pin.

00:17:31.680 So you don't do that.

00:17:32.860 But he did.

00:17:33.900 You know, George Clooney coming out and saying, fine.

00:17:35.480 I like to double check, triple check and look at it.

00:17:37.760 That's good for George Clooney.

00:17:38.660 And I'm probably sufficiently neurotic that I would always do the same thing myself.

00:17:42.320 Look at the back of the dummy rounds and say, how do I know that this is not a live

00:17:45.780 round?

00:17:46.740 So I can forgive Alex or at least understand that argument, Alec, that it's not his last

00:17:52.600 line to say, am I the one to decide this versus the armorer?

00:17:56.120 But can you get over the fact that the reason why the armorer wasn't in the church for that

00:17:59.900 scene was because of covid restrictions?

00:18:02.180 I mean, they're shooting a Western using real, real guns, not supposed to be using real ammunition,

00:18:09.300 but because of safety protocols for covid, the armor is not in there to inspect for the

00:18:16.120 final for the final say.

00:18:17.920 And she's not allowed to be on scene. 0.93

00:18:19.280 I mean, it's the world's gone mad.

00:18:22.020 Risk assessment has gone mad.

00:18:23.680 And this could very well be chalked up as a covid accident at its core. 0.86

00:18:27.960 But what kind of an insane lunatic did not think that she was an essential worker, that 0.68

00:18:33.560 the armorer, Hannah Gutierrez Reed, was was an essential worker to that scene. 1.00

00:18:37.960 I mean, that's the person it's probably this person's been sued.

00:18:41.560 She's one of the one of the players.

00:18:42.880 She's probably I can't remember what her name is, but she there was a woman. 1.00

00:18:45.740 Hold on.

00:18:46.120 I'll find it.

00:18:46.980 Who is overseeing safety?

00:18:48.400 There's too many names in this, Megan.

00:18:49.680 Like you got you got the names of the people suing the names of the armorer assistant director.

00:18:54.000 I know you got then you got the investigators.

00:18:56.480 It's nuts.

00:18:57.460 I'll get it.

00:18:58.040 She is one of the people who's been sued in like the most recent round of lawsuits.

00:19:02.320 I'll find it.

00:19:02.880 But in any event.

00:19:03.620 OK, so that's Alec Baldwin.

00:19:04.980 I don't think he's going to do very well on a civil lawsuit against him.

00:19:07.780 Already, Matt Hutchins, the widower of Helena, has filed and settled a lawsuit against

00:19:13.420 Baldwin in the in the production company, which we can talk about more later.

00:19:17.240 But he's going to he's on the receiving end of others.

00:19:20.240 There was a woman who I think she did. 0.97

00:19:23.680 She write the scripts or she she brought the scripts in. 0.95

00:19:26.400 Who's represented by Gloria Allred.

00:19:28.620 Mayor.

00:19:29.780 What's her name?

00:19:30.560 Mamie, Mamie, Mamie Mitchell, script supervisor.

00:19:33.440 She's suing the producers, including Baldwin, alleging assault and intentional infliction

00:19:37.820 of emotional distress.

00:19:39.120 She's the one who called 911 after it happened and sounded absolutely distraught.

00:19:45.760 And she's suing him.

00:19:47.260 So other people are going to be suing him and trying to sort of pin it on him.

00:19:50.600 And he has already brought in in that case, filed a motion to dismiss.

00:19:55.000 It got denied.

00:19:55.620 Um, he's brought in to that case, the armorer and the assistant director who yelled cold

00:20:03.420 gun.

00:20:04.020 Cold gun.

00:20:04.600 Um, and and I understand that.

00:20:06.180 And the armorer, meanwhile, is pointing at that.

00:20:09.540 I think, uh, at their her boss, who I think she's alleging did not run a safe set.

00:20:13.840 This is the woman who I was trying to get to before, who if you didn't let the armor on 1.00

00:20:18.060 the set during covid because of covid restrictions, you're an idiot. 0.99

00:20:21.040 There shouldn't have been a scene with a gun without the armor, period. 0.99

00:20:24.460 Uh, but secondly, I think it's very interesting because the armorer is blaming the ammo guy,

00:20:31.020 Seth Kenny, right?

00:20:32.260 That's his name.

00:20:33.480 PD is and his company PDC.

00:20:35.400 I mean, well, everybody's going to go after everybody and not, but the, but the armorer

00:20:40.280 versus Seth Kenny is where the game is at in my legal opinion.

00:20:46.600 Yes.

00:20:47.480 And, and I mean, I say yes, there's not yes and no.

00:20:50.420 Cause if the armorer, not the armor, sorry.

00:20:52.600 If the, if Seth Kenny and PDC actually provided live ammunition, um, to the set when they were

00:21:00.360 not supposed to, it's, it's conceivable that Seth Kenny and PDC provided live ammunition

00:21:05.840 for a totally legitimate reason.

00:21:07.560 I mean, it, it, you could use live ammunition for firing range off offset.

00:21:13.240 But if they were mixed in with dummy rounds, well, that's, that's, I mean, that's, that's

00:21:17.900 where you get to like negligence per se.

00:21:19.700 That's that is the definition of negligence.

00:21:23.140 That, that, that, that, that's why at the end of the day, there, there's going to have

00:21:26.340 to be a criminal trial for this.

00:21:28.680 And then the only question is going to be who, you know, how do, how do they apportion the

00:21:32.760 responsibility?

00:21:33.300 And what does the evidence bear out?

00:21:35.520 Um, cause, and there's a, there's a concept in, in, at least in Canadian law, I don't

00:21:39.580 know if it's going to be the same under the U S law, but actus novus, like even if someone

00:21:43.800 had done something negligent, did someone else do something further down the line that severed

00:21:48.060 any responsibility that could have ever been attributed to the initial actor?

00:21:51.660 I'm imagining people are going to say that like, okay, Seth Kenny says, look, I sold you

00:21:54.980 live rounds.

00:21:55.740 Maybe he has a defense that it was, it wasn't for the set.

00:21:58.160 It should never been there.

00:21:58.940 If, if indeed it comes out that live ammunition was mixed with dummy rounds that were sold

00:22:03.760 and delivered by PDC, Seth Kenny.

00:22:05.740 Okay.

00:22:06.100 Well then I definitely see a connection in law.

00:22:08.140 In fact, then the issue is going to be, well, if nobody pulls the trigger, this never happens.

00:22:12.720 Or if the armorer does their job properly, this never happens.

00:22:16.500 Why didn't you spot it?

00:22:17.620 Wait.

00:22:17.780 So let's, I want to get to that.

00:22:19.000 Let's say yes.

00:22:19.400 Cause everybody's doing one of these.

00:22:20.600 Like it was, it was her.

00:22:21.780 It was him.

00:22:22.200 It was like, it's a Spider-Man meme on, on, on the interwebs.

00:22:24.920 It's everybody's everybody else's fault.

00:22:26.840 I'm not responsible.

00:22:27.800 And if I'm responsible, I'm the least responsible.

00:22:29.940 Only give me 10% of it.

00:22:31.420 Um, so, so here's what she's going to say.

00:22:33.560 Seth Kenny gave her a box or boxes of ammo that had both dummy rounds and live rounds

00:22:41.920 in them.

00:22:42.260 Something she never expected and would never expect.

00:22:44.920 And just for the audience, um, I've had this explained to me the difference between a dummy

00:22:49.320 round and a blank is a blank actually produces smoke and makes a sound.

00:22:55.200 And it's sort of like an imitation bullet with like imitation things about it, like

00:23:00.800 the smoke and so on.

00:23:01.960 A dummy round is just like a, it's just a lookalike.

00:23:04.480 It's just a pretty little lookalike.

00:23:06.580 It doesn't do any of those fancy things.

00:23:08.380 And these were supposed to be dummy rounds because you can see them in a Colt 45.

00:23:12.880 All you needed to do was see the bullets in the gun so that you would believe this was

00:23:17.600 a real loaded gun.

00:23:20.260 Yeah, well, that's the, it's the, the, the, the blanks have reduced, uh, projectile

00:23:24.820 capacity dummies are, are, are, are pure prop.

00:23:28.540 There's a number of distinctions which are not necessarily, you know, you don't need to

00:23:31.880 flesh them out in detail and the, the, the gun, the gun aficionados definitely know the

00:23:36.800 difference in detail.

00:23:37.840 But, uh, if, if it turns out that live ammunition was mixed in with, with, with blanks, okay.

00:23:45.120 Dummies. 0.93

00:23:46.560 Blanks or dummies. 0.92

00:23:47.200 There's still, um, apparently it's not all that easy to tell the difference either.

00:23:50.900 You have to look at the back of the bullets to see what color the primers.

00:23:54.880 You have to shake them.

00:23:56.680 Even there though.

00:23:57.820 Trust me.

00:23:58.320 I have this from a very good source.

00:24:00.180 The, the, this armorer was placed in the position in that truck of trying to decide whether

00:24:06.420 these were, you know, putting, loading up these, uh, fire, this firearm.

00:24:09.840 And she's claiming that she was given a box that had both in it.

00:24:14.180 And the way that you would tell is you shake it and it makes a noise.

00:24:18.980 I, this, I can't remember either.

00:24:21.160 I can imagine.

00:24:21.720 I can understand that.

00:24:22.480 Because the fake one makes a noise or the real one makes a noise, but that's how you check.

00:24:26.500 And, and you have to make sure everything going in there does what the dummy does, which is either

00:24:30.960 they all made the noise or none of them made the noise.

00:24:33.540 Forgive me for not knowing the difference.

00:24:35.520 The, the, the, the, the, the, those are going to be, you know, yelling at their screens for

00:24:38.700 both of us here.

00:24:39.400 I can understand if, if they have reduced projectile capacity, there's going to be a

00:24:43.120 less gun powder.

00:24:44.120 So it will shake.

00:24:45.020 Okay.

00:24:45.400 Either there's a way to tell the difference.

00:24:47.420 If that's going to be the defense, however, there should never have been live rounds on

00:24:50.940 set to begin with.

00:24:52.080 But then the question is whose fault is that Seth Kenny for delivering it, uh, armors for

00:24:56.800 accepting it, producers for allowing it to happen.

00:24:59.740 Everyone will share responsibility in this at the end of the day.

00:25:02.260 uh the only question is apportionment and whether or not people can say this is where the buck stops

00:25:07.700 in terms of my responsibility um but no i mean baldwin's lawsuit makes some allegations um which

00:25:14.880 they're allegations but look you know pretty damning in terms of what was delivered to the set

00:25:19.020 but it's it's you have to see defenses there could be the defense that someone ordered the

00:25:23.740 live rounds for offset shooting uh and so then seth kenny's off the hook i mean in theory

00:25:28.800 so but the reports are that what was in the gun what it was a mixture you had the live round and

00:25:35.640 i think the rest of them were dummy so it's not like she loaded a gun with all live rounds from

00:25:41.880 the wrong box that was on set for a legitimate purpose of some sort you know that that's not

00:25:47.240 possible she loaded one dummy round and i think i'm sorry one live round and the rest of them dummy

00:25:53.820 rounds and they said that they retrieved the boxes from the armorer's truck and they did find more of

00:26:00.060 this combination and so and that that's why she's pointing the finger at the at the uh the ammo guy 1.00

00:26:06.500 seth kenny saying you gave me those boxes like that you put me in a position to endanger everybody and

00:26:12.900 he's gonna say a no i didn't and b if i did it's literally your job to tell the difference that's why

00:26:20.600 you're there to to be a fail safe just in case an accident like that happens or something fell over

00:26:26.940 and they in a haste put all the bullets back together in a box and mix them up i mean there's

00:26:31.280 there's an that would be an actus novus they were separate at the beginning something happened and then

00:26:35.480 they just put them all together in a box there's there's conceivable defenses there um but true at

00:26:41.080 the end of the day it's it's it's the armorer who's supposed to know the difference apparently from

00:26:45.680 from baldwin's lawsuit there was also a live round in the rifle so but bottom line what the hell is

00:26:52.320 going on on that set and then bottom line uh how the heck do you make a movie where you have a scene

00:26:58.880 like this but because of covid protocol in the middle of the new mexico desert uh you don't allow

00:27:04.460 the armor to go in can she can you get policy makers involved in this i mean i this this is a

00:27:10.180 question of policy that's having real life impact but end of the day and most people are of this

00:27:14.280 opinion the buck stops with the person who pulled the trigger of a prop gun pointed at a human now

00:27:20.020 before we get back to him back to alex alec um you got the the the ammo guy kenny you got hannah

00:27:29.840 gutierrez reed the armorer who is the dodge she's young but she's the daughter of like the most 0.99

00:27:34.640 respected armorer in all of hollywood um and so presumably was well trained though she's very young

00:27:40.500 so we don't know for sure uh and then from her it goes to david halls the assistant director who's

00:27:47.300 the one who handed the weapon to baldwin and yelled cold gun indicating that it did not contain live

00:27:52.600 rounds now this guy he's also being sued in the chain so far to me he's the least culpable this guy

00:28:01.620 doesn't he doesn't know squat had the assistant director doesn't know how is the armorer gonna make

00:28:07.640 mistake of not knowing the difference between the dummy round and the live round and the assistant

00:28:11.580 director whose job encompasses way more than the guns he's supposed to know this is and this this is

00:28:19.360 not to point fingers or try to get people in trouble just conceptually if if hall is not expected to know

00:28:25.620 the difference and in fact does not know the difference it could be argued he then has no

00:28:29.880 business declaring a gun a cold gun a safe gun a prop okay um and so by we don't know what the

00:28:36.440 standard is what the industry standard well i i don't know what the industry standard is but i can

00:28:41.160 tell you the legal standard is if he's if he's reassuring some someone of something that he has

00:28:45.780 no business reassuring them of there's definitely going to be some blame game in the attribution of

00:28:49.900 responsibility but for that's true if if the industry standard is the armorer gives you the gun and

00:28:55.100 and we all rely on the armorer and really the armorer is the last line of defense and that's what

00:29:00.340 every movie set accepts then i don't think this guy is gonna he would he wouldn't be found liable for

00:29:05.300 not knowing himself independently well on the set now as it goes where the armor is not allowed there

00:29:12.180 and then the obligation is passed on to the uh assistant director uh who then makes an affirmative

00:29:17.600 action to say cold gun and gives it to alec you know the bottom the end of the day it's none of this

00:29:23.900 should be happening but uh they're all they're all contributing in one way or another to an

00:29:29.400 ultimately uh the death of a human but what can you say that he he had an action that he proactively

00:29:38.880 did declared it a cold gun and then handed it to alec and then alec uh thinking it's a cold gun because

00:29:44.920 the ad says it is uh should still be treating it like an actual firearm and obviously wasn't so paul's

00:29:52.460 gonna say look i didn't know so why did i say what i said i don't know but at the end of the day

00:29:56.280 alec should have treated like a real gun as is the protocol ended yeah here's one thing um now he

00:30:02.060 i think this is from i'm not sure where we got this i think it may maybe la times maybe uh santa fe

00:30:08.160 county sheriff um dave halls the guy we're talking about assistant director told an investigator that

00:30:13.820 he had not checked all of the rounds in the gun so he did not open it he did not check or if he did

00:30:18.460 open it he didn't check each round and he says as he should have according to an affidavit he said

00:30:24.980 the film's armorer hannah gutierrez reed had opened the gun for him to inspect he advised that he should

00:30:31.620 have checked all of them but he didn't and couldn't recall if she spun the drum i mean this is people who

00:30:40.500 are a second amendment um you know uh supporters are going to say this is exactly what happens when

00:30:45.920 people are totally ignorant uh as relates to the functioning of firearms like okay fine i should

00:30:51.720 have done it these are people treating guns like toys like props on a set without fully appreciating 0.99

00:30:57.120 that they are tools that can cause death if they're they're intended to do certain damage by their by

00:31:04.920 their essence um and you have they're just willy-nilly flippantly oh yeah cold gun here i flipped it it's just

00:31:11.500 and now i hand it off to you and now alex like oh yeah i got i got a cold gun let's oh the director

00:31:16.200 is telling me to point it at her i mean i i i have become much more sensitive to second amendment

00:31:22.180 arguments and even with my own you know my own family i think whatever if it's a nerf gun you don't

00:31:28.900 point it at someone let alone a real functional firearm uh even on set and it's not because someone

00:31:35.380 says pointed at me because i want to know if i got the shot that you do it everything about this

00:31:39.700 was dangerous a to z but how did live ammunition get there i i like this point because you're right

00:31:45.940 i maybe i'm giving this assistant director too much of a pass it's like if i if i were placed in charge

00:31:51.980 as the ad if i were the last person to touch the gun before it goes to the guy who is going to be

00:31:58.040 handling it and pointing it at people which is another question about whether he should have done

00:32:01.520 that i would i'd take a bunch of classes i'd make sure i got whatever certification was was

00:32:06.760 necessary i would make myself as knowledgeable if not more than the armorer if i accepted that huge

00:32:13.740 responsibility so i i take your point that's a good point about him but that also brings into

00:32:19.400 yeah go ahead just one other thing like i'm known to be somewhat neurotic if i'm adam if i'm hull

00:32:26.060 i and i'm taking this gun i go outside and a chain of custody i say hannah look at the back i i don't know

00:32:33.020 a dummy round from a live round look at this one last time and i after getting the okay carry it

00:32:38.440 myself and then give it to baldwin um and the idea that this this gun was actually the chain of

00:32:43.800 custody of this of this prop uh there were big gaps in it i think there was an issue of them going to

00:32:50.240 lunch and another issue which we might want to remember to touch on is um hannah gutteres reed saying 0.99

00:32:55.040 that one of the bullets she was having trouble fitting it in and she cleaned it off to make it fit

00:32:58.220 um the idea that there's uh open windows of of the chain of custody of the thing is is a big issue

00:33:05.620 but if i'm if i'm hull and hindsight is 2020 but neurosis neurosis is is 2020 going forward i take

00:33:12.300 this out i armorer can't come in i go out make sure that she sees it gives the okay and you know

00:33:17.240 uninterrupted bring it to alec but then it's not that's not a question of saying what you should

00:33:21.780 have done this is a it's a horrible tragedy hindsight is 2020 but sometimes foresight is as well

00:33:28.220 the other person that we haven't yet talked about is the person who oversaw safety on the set props

00:33:37.860 on the set hannah gutteres reads direct report what kind of an environment was this person maintaining

00:33:44.160 what kind of environment were her bosses the producers of the whole show maintaining because

00:33:49.020 there were reports of at least two accidental discharges with the guns prior to this there was

00:33:54.720 a guy i think it was a cameraman who complained that this was not a safe set prior to this he was

00:33:59.540 it was more of like a union complaint but still he was saying this is not a safe set and if there's any

00:34:05.820 evidence at all of this person not providing let's say the actors with appropriate training on how to use

00:34:14.340 the gun and what's expected of you because of budget constraints because of covid restraints because of time

00:34:20.000 constraints that person too could very well be on the hook absolutely and this is why also baldwin in

00:34:27.780 in his interview with cuomo was trying to draw i think a a legal distinction that won't actually

00:34:34.080 be recognized in law between the producers there's there's a line well there's there's various types of

00:34:39.840 producers and alec baldwin was only an artistic uh you know creative type producer didn't have any say in

00:34:45.680 hiring firing production etc was there maybe by name only etc at the end of the day they're all they're

00:34:51.280 all producers and responsible for safety on set whether or not within the industry one only takes

00:34:57.740 care of artistic direction and not hiring and firing um the idea though oh hold on i just i lost my

00:35:04.080 thought there oh but say they're gonna go after this safety issues yeah no the safety issues apparently

00:35:09.460 they were known and you know even according to i think alec baldwin said it in one of the interviews

00:35:14.660 i didn't hear about any safety issues until someone mentioned it in passing but it was mostly about

00:35:19.100 the hotel accommodations and before i could fix the hotel accommodations they all walked off set

00:35:24.080 the day before this happened um to say that there were no warnings i don't think anyone's going to

00:35:29.460 believe when an accidental discharge occurs twice of a of a blank not of a live ammunition a live round

00:35:35.880 everybody knows and if we're going back to you know not to make theories more solid but

00:35:42.420 the idea that it might have been known to some people that there were two accidental discharges

00:35:47.100 and it's no more serious than that people's ears ring for a few seconds you might get into the sort

00:35:52.180 of behavior where it's not that big of a deal if there's another accidental discharge or maybe even

00:35:56.620 a deliberate discharge of a blank uh for whatever the reason so it's uh yeah the past is prologue in a

00:36:04.020 sense and they knew that there were issues there were complaints whether or not alec was fully aware

00:36:09.800 fully in the thick of it i i think even by his own subsequent statements he was made aware of it

00:36:14.960 shortly before the incident and people walked off set the day of and then you continue to do this

00:36:19.960 it's it's just it's schlock schlock business schlock um safety control from beginning to end and

00:36:27.420 unfortunately one person uh has bore the the brunt of that um that negligence well obviously helena

00:36:35.920 hutchins but i will say watching this from the outside i feel bad i feel bad for everyone honestly

00:36:42.040 i even feel bad for baldwin it's such a terrible tragedy and i do believe while they behaved

00:36:47.620 negligently they this was an accident i mean it was not intended by any of them um i haven't seen any

00:36:53.720 evidence to the contrary but i also really feel bad for this young armorer because i see alec baldwin

00:36:58.820 with his multi-million dollar lawyers and pr teams hanging her out to dry and she has no money and 0.52

00:37:05.180 she's very young and i can just you can see what's happening his pr machine has decided she's to blame

00:37:10.780 and not him and what does this girl have to defend herself nothing right she's got nothing 1.00

00:37:16.660 well i'll second one thought i feel bad for everybody involved as well and genuine even alec baldwin 0.65

00:37:24.120 he he might be a loathsome human he might be a political uh you know he might be a detestable

00:37:30.180 political person as well i don't think well i don't think anybody intended this to happen uh period

00:37:36.820 and and it's it's devastating and disastrous for everyone involved even even uh mitchell who's who's

00:37:43.480 suing as well you know it's not just because nothing happened to them that they're not suffering

00:37:47.500 trauma from having witnessed this and having been in his presence um but from a legal perspective

00:37:52.860 uh i'm obviously uh if i'm baldwin being sued i'm obviously trying to not pass the buck in a in a

00:38:00.740 irresponsible sense he might still be to blame for having pulled the trigger but i i would obviously

00:38:05.900 as his attorney tell you're going after the people who you think you know should have known that those

00:38:10.600 live rounds were there or who may have brought them in on their own because typically the truth comes 0.87

00:38:16.000 out at trial when evidence is presented there might be really stupid reasons for which that live 0.90

00:38:20.700 ammunition was on set and it might have to do with negligence by or even worse in the sense that it 0.96

00:38:27.440 was brought on deliberately when they were having fun you know during off hours shooting live rounds

00:38:31.760 in the desert you know got to kill time if that that might be the case or it might just be the case

00:38:36.920 that she should have known and she should never put baldwin in that position even if he should never

00:38:40.240 pull the trigger as his attorney i'd be i'd be doing the same thing money money aside this is actually

00:38:46.420 you know one of those issues where it's a question of principle and clearing one's name in as much as

00:38:51.120 one's name can be cleared but at the end of the day he still pulled the trigger so even if she were

00:38:55.420 negligent and he succeeds partially there he still pulled the trigger himself of a of a real gun

00:39:01.120 pointing at a real human with real tragic consequences well and also doesn't seem to feel

00:39:06.940 any guilt about it that's what he told george stephanopoulos which wound up getting him in some hot

00:39:11.360 water with helena hudges widow widower here's alec baldwin with uh stephanopoulos on guilt top five

00:39:18.580 your emotions are so clearly so right there on the surface you felt shock you felt anger you felt

00:39:28.500 sadness do you feel guilt no no i feel that there is i i feel that that that someone is responsible

00:39:38.820 for what happened and i can't say who that is but i know it's not me and then matt hutchins comes out

00:39:46.540 stand by because i want to talk about this admission the husband was upset but not just by that but by

00:39:52.380 everything he said in that stephanopoulos interview and this is what he said over on the today show

00:39:57.040 watching him i just felt so angry just so angry to see him talk about her death so publicly in such

00:40:07.340 a detailed way and then to not accept any responsibility after having just described

00:40:13.760 killing he said essentially he felt grief but no guilt almost sounds like he was the victim

00:40:20.980 and hearing him blame helena in the interview and and shift responsibility to others and

00:40:30.680 and seeing him cry about it i just feel like are we really supposed to feel bad about you mr baldwin

00:40:38.900 what do you make of that whole thing uh i don't believe baldwin when he says i don't feel guilt

00:40:46.060 it's it's the no no it's it's the it's he's trying to reassure himself and i think this is

00:40:51.380 self-protection sort of psychological defense mechanisms he's trying to convince himself he

00:40:55.980 doesn't feel guilty i think he does setting that aside to say that he doesn't feel guilt optically is

00:41:01.200 terrible uh messaging wise it's terrible he should feel guilty now whether or not he feels responsible

00:41:06.860 is different than guilt but of course he should feel guilty as far as what uh hutchins husband said

00:41:12.440 he said i i have a hundred percent i agree with it giving this interview is is rubbing the trauma in

00:41:18.500 the face of of the family um in the interview suggesting it was her fault well she told me to do

00:41:25.920 it she told me to do what i said i would never do because i have such experience with firearms

00:41:30.960 is a mutually uh a lot incompatible defense but it's it's it's insensitive he should he would have

00:41:37.520 been better off just shutting up legally and also from the perspective of the grieving family to see

00:41:42.920 this guy doing you know doing interviews with george stephanopoulos the softest softball of an

00:41:47.400 interview you can possibly imagine to effectively paint himself as a victim yes the husband is

00:41:52.880 grieving and right to be pissed off and i know and stephanopoulos let him i mean at least act the role

00:42:00.460 of an impartial interviewer to say what do you mean you don't feel guilty this is outrageous you killed

00:42:07.560 a woman i understand you're saying it was unintentional but how can you not feel guilt

00:42:11.480 like at least act it if you're not actually feeling the indignation i mean this is the problem with gma

00:42:16.820 when it came to the jussie smollett case too and robin roberts gave him the the biggest butt kiss

00:42:22.540 in ever given in all of interviewing and they wound up embarrassed because we all know that that was a

00:42:28.380 hoax with so said a jury so in any event uh just more media malpractice there um i i wonder though

00:42:35.860 what's going to happen with matt hutchins the widower because he did file a lawsuit it's been

00:42:39.960 settled that one was taken care of quick and undoubtedly alec baldwin's insurance company on

00:42:45.100 the movie set paid it i don't know what the settlement was but i'm sure it was a big one

00:42:48.820 and weirdly one of the terms of the settlement was that matt hutchins

00:42:54.080 would be an executive producer of the revived movie rust as it continues shooting and gets made

00:43:06.940 and then released with this same cast i i can't i don't i got nothing david i don't know i don't get

00:43:15.160 okay i'll i'll um there are theories floating around some are mine and some are not mine um

00:43:21.400 the the settlement is to be expected i mean the settlement is the admission of guilt that you

00:43:28.460 know he could say i'm not settling this i want to go to i want to go to civil trial and get a judgment

00:43:32.020 it'll make me feel better than the settlement settlement is as good as admission of responsibility

00:43:35.840 from what i understand finances are not uh you know a meaningful consideration here so

00:43:40.900 it's not as though this was about the money from hutchins family from what i understand

00:43:45.320 very well to do regardless um it's the executive producer aspect which will raise a number of

00:43:52.640 eyebrows now and not to be too cynical and to give uh the benefit of cynical doubt to the husband

00:44:00.320 it's conceivable you know internally he says i don't want my wife's death to be in vain at the very

00:44:06.000 least this should be her legacy finish the project um and maybe in his mind he says okay the way the

00:44:11.720 way to commemorate her is to be executive producer and make sure that this happens um i i don't know

00:44:17.200 there are some people alec baldwin i mean that's the thing that's like okay maybe it's one thing it's

00:44:21.700 like we're gonna start anew we're gonna have different actors we're gonna you know it's the same

00:44:26.160 cast he's going to oversee some set with alec baldwin i mean people are going to go see this out of a

00:44:32.040 voyeuristic ghoulish desire to see the scene in which the woman was killed like i just can't

00:44:40.040 understand god forbid i ever knew somebody who suffered a tragedy like this my advice would be

00:44:44.680 run run this is not something you want to revive i i don't know anything about i think the lord the

00:44:51.420 god the husband's a lawyer he's not even in the film business yeah and i won't get into too many

00:44:56.680 things theories that can either be proven or disproven i can understand the idea that he wants

00:45:01.840 his wife's memory to live on and this project should not end with her with her death okay uh

00:45:08.300 executive producer from what i understand of the industry and this is coming from people who are

00:45:12.120 smarter than me or know it better it's typically they like they call it a sort of an honorary title

00:45:16.900 it's about somebody yes it's to it's to show someone raised money for the movie so maybe maybe he

00:45:22.060 thinks or just to show you're important yeah or or just you know on to honor and maybe that's the way

00:45:27.880 he's he's he's visualizing visualizing this in his mind one of the theories and again this is a shout

00:45:33.740 out to eric hunley and mark robert some of the theories about politics in this is that they they

00:45:38.520 sort of if you want to protect alec baldwin for whatever the reason political connections stardom

00:45:44.260 whatever a way to try to put some pressure on prosecutors not to prosecute settle between the

00:45:51.400 two main parties and so that you say well look that there's been some justice here but not only

00:45:56.640 is there a settlement we're going to continue production of the movie it would be very bizarre

00:46:00.520 if you started pressing charges against the people who are now making the movie together in the to the

00:46:05.340 extent that some of them stay in the same production i suspect some of them would not be in the continued

00:46:09.680 production others would so if they settle the plaintiff in the civil suit and the uh extended victim in a

00:46:17.400 criminal suit says well now we're partners in this so it'd be very weird if you actually prosecute my

00:46:22.820 partner in this project well that you know that could be sort of the wink wink nudge nudge let's not

00:46:28.380 press charges against baldwin um that would be a more sinister way of looking at it for the time being

00:46:33.960 you know hutchins is a grieving widow he's got he's got a kid who's going to grow up without a mother now

00:46:38.820 uh i i'll i'll go to the side of he wants to see this project come to fruition he doesn't want his wife's 1.00

00:46:45.220 death uh to be the you know to to you know be extinguished with with this her project which was

00:46:51.060 you know she was in love with this project as well uh but people will have theories and they're not

00:46:55.560 going to be wrong for a hypothesizing as to what the heck is going on the whole thing is shocking to

00:47:01.120 me it's shocking to me that he would want the project to go forward with alec baldwin and that he

00:47:05.800 would want his name on i just you know god bless this man he's been through a horrific tragedy i just

00:47:11.540 to me it's like all this is happening so fast i do wonder whether he's going to regret that someday

00:47:16.420 because he's he suffered the loss he he sued he watched this guy go all over television defending

00:47:21.940 himself and smearing his wife and then he settled all within this like eight month period it's too too

00:47:29.000 much too soon for this guy and and now they're going to resume the the production i assume they're

00:47:34.020 not going to have the same armorer and the same ammo provider and the same ad i mean you you assume but

00:47:40.980 i mean who the heck knows uh there's got there's continuity issues not only in terms of actors but

00:47:45.700 in terms of style etc i suspect stylistically it's easier to have a shift or not notice a difference but

00:47:51.760 obviously with the actors who can't um but yeah it's it's it's bizarre enough that people will ask

00:47:58.100 questions i don't know if there was um in the settlements if there's a a portion of revenue

00:48:03.680 splitting from the movie but he's an executive producer one can assume or imagine that that might be

00:48:07.960 sure there is although yeah revenue might not be the big issue but it is true megan it's a good

00:48:12.820 point like some people are going to see this because they want to just see the horror others

00:48:17.680 are going to you know i think most people are not going to say i want to see this movie would have

00:48:21.160 been otherwise it's i want to go uh live a piece of this this tragedy um and so it's going to be sort

00:48:28.000 of a gawking rubberneck yes exactly i was just going to use that term rubberneck it's the same 0.83

00:48:32.220 reason we rubberneck you know god forgive us all we do it we want to see what's there we're all

00:48:38.280 fascinated by our own mortality we all know it's going to come for us eventually we hope it's not

00:48:42.840 going to come in a gruesome way like a car accident or an accidental shooting but there's something very

00:48:47.520 human about wanting more information about a situation like this and that and then it can veer

00:48:52.340 over into exploitative and this will because there will be people not wishing any of these characters

00:48:58.100 well who will be like yeah yeah oh you know i mean it's just going to be it's going to be gross

00:49:03.160 bottom line you still have investors and you still have interests that don't want to see this end now

00:49:07.840 because it's it's it's it's a non-monetizable uh waste as is so you even have economic interests

00:49:13.900 which are very sinister which like okay forget the tragedy and by the way or even exploit the tragedy

00:49:18.580 it'll make it even more marketable we'll make more money off of this and we'll get back that

00:49:21.980 sounds more like hollywood that sounds more like that but now what as we divvy up the responsibilities

00:49:26.960 between the guy with the ammo the armorer the ad alec baldwin the woman who oversaw the the props

00:49:34.200 on the set and sort of ran herd on the crew um who gets rehired could be potentially relevant like

00:49:40.940 who makes that decision and is it an admission by the production company if the if the armorer

00:49:47.740 doesn't come back they think it was her if the ammo guy doesn't come back they think it was him

00:49:53.020 right like that could be interesting too i well i as far as that there's an easy answer to that i

00:49:58.540 don't expect uh maybe mitchell to come back uh and and i don't think anyone she's the one suing the

00:50:03.260 script she's the one supervising yeah i don't expect the armorer to come back because i think some of

00:50:07.220 these people are going to have experienced professional trauma to such a degree that they're

00:50:11.240 going to find other lines of work right now um yeah so i i i you know i've heard people you know

00:50:16.180 discuss that like okay if this person doesn't come back they're tacitly blaming them i think that

00:50:20.960 the people behind the camera are probably not going to come back just because it would be too

00:50:25.860 traumatic the question is going to be with with suza uh is he going to come back as the director

00:50:29.940 that i could that i could see happening uh definitely a different armorer if only for

00:50:35.560 insurance purposes i mean who's going to insure this movie going forward if the person who was

00:50:39.720 responsible for a death or involved in it culpable or not is back on something no a new new armorer

00:50:46.960 uh i i don't know what the other what the other um positions would be that you'd have to fill for

00:50:52.740 liability insurance reasons stylistically i could see i could see the director coming back

00:50:57.200 not the assistant director and baldwin odyssey has to be there um but no yeah i i could you could

00:51:03.500 easily explain away not coming back without it meaning any form of culpability i can't imagine joel

00:51:09.560 soos is going to come back to wounded by the same bullet that killed helena but who the hell knows

00:51:13.580 now wait so let me let let's talk a little bit about the civil suits and what's going to happen

00:51:18.800 criminally because now the sheriff's investigation is complete he's handed over uh his file to the da

00:51:25.260 mary carmack altwise santa fe county da i don't know if i'm pronouncing that correctly a-l-t-w-i-e-s

00:51:31.900 and she's going to have some assistance brought in because they sought extra funding saying that

00:51:36.540 they may have as many as four people to indict that could have just been puffery to try to get as

00:51:41.660 much of a budget as possible for the da's office we don't know no one's been charged yet um but

00:51:47.940 looking at it yourself we'll do the criminal then we'll do the civil all all all of the above likely

00:51:53.900 to get charged they say as many as four so that that's we did um ammo armor ad alec and maybe prop gal

00:52:02.500 that's five so well and six if you include the company no you wouldn't criminally we won't do

00:52:09.660 the company um so i'd say prop gal is the most she's probably the first to be eliminated from 1.00

00:52:14.760 the chain of potential criminal charges though she could be involved civilly depending i see i'm not

00:52:20.080 totally clear on the evidence that um about the intermingling of live rounds with dummy rounds

00:52:26.380 on set so depending on that factor i might be inclined to think that um kenny might not face

00:52:33.720 criminal charges just because i don't know what the evidence is in terms of what was delivered

00:52:38.000 what was it well yeah the ammo guy was it intermingled when it was delivered in baldwin's

00:52:42.140 lawsuit you know they show some pictures of a messy looking business but that's that's neither here

00:52:47.700 nor there and four pictures does not characterize a business but i don't know what the evidence there is

00:52:52.920 we know that there were live rounds on set the question is we know the armorer is saying it but

00:52:57.820 we don't know whether it's true uh i think it's definitively known that there were a lot oh that

00:53:03.800 the armorer was saying that they were intermingled yes she's blaming him she's she's definitely blaming 0.93

00:53:08.500 the the ammo guy of course for sure but in terms of criminal charges and probable cause seth kenny

00:53:14.740 that's one where i have a big question mark but it does depend on the evidence that they have in

00:53:19.020 terms of what was delivered what was ordered what was delivered um but criminally i would i would be

00:53:24.960 hard-pressed to not think um and we're talking like you know uh uh involuntary manslaughter in

00:53:30.900 this case like where the negligence comes in under new mexico law under my cursory understanding from

00:53:35.500 what i've what i've looked up or or heard as well from others um the negligence comes in with

00:53:41.140 involuntary manslaughter baldwin it should be a no-brainer uh in terms of the most obvious charge

00:53:47.600 um the armorer the ad you know potentially i mean this is all contributive to a death um so

00:53:56.020 involuntary manslaughter i'd go with four and possibly five but i i might my biggest caveat is

00:54:03.180 with the with seth kenny uh the production guy interesting the product that raises a good point

00:54:08.740 because she's definitely gonna allege that the armorer is definitely gonna say it was him him him

00:54:12.920 he he's patient zero seth kenny if it weren't for him and his screwing up of the ammo none of this

00:54:17.960 would have happened but it's one thing to say it it's another thing to prove it and how does she

00:54:21.440 prove that he delivered mixed rounds in the same box to her that's that's a tall order even more

00:54:27.940 it's what evidence they would have to charge so it wouldn't even it wouldn't be what she has to 0.79

00:54:31.800 prove it's what evidence do they have to even charge seth kenny uh so i mean well her testimony

00:54:37.000 her testimony is evidence true and so that and then well that's true but there has to be harder

00:54:42.720 evidence in terms of uh purchase orders delivery somebody or maybe somebody was in the truck with

00:54:47.860 her maybe some maybe maybe somebody after the accident went back to the truck and saw and saw

00:54:55.900 exactly what was there like a mixed you know boxes and box if there were boxes and boxes of mixed

00:55:00.560 you'd be much more likely to blame it on the ammo guy than there was a spill and this ridiculous

00:55:05.520 armorer completely blew off every responsibility and just threw them all in there it's if that's

00:55:12.140 the case that i mean one would deserve to get charged if they delivered blank and dummy blank and live

00:55:17.680 rounds in the same case in the same box i i don't see how they cannot charge anybody at the end of the

00:55:22.820 day someone got killed through an accident um it's not up for the the prosecutors to say oh you know

00:55:30.800 people people feel bad and let's move on uh someone died there was clearly negligence somewhere

00:55:36.840 and it might just have to come out through the evidence who bears what portion of the responsibility

00:55:41.220 but yeah four or five charges seem realistic and probable at this point in time criminal what role is

00:55:48.520 alec baldwin's celebrity gonna have in all this if he gets charged you know both with the da

00:55:54.100 da's are human you know they they tend to be bowled over by big names and certainly juries you know

00:56:00.860 it's uh new mexico is not la they're probably not as used to seeing big name defendants come through

00:56:08.860 courts i don't know i just worry that his celebrity may have an outsized role in the charges

00:56:14.900 i i'm tainted by how much i've seen politics infiltrate and ruin everything i think the political

00:56:20.660 side of it might have the bigger impact uh that's a good point too it's it's a it's a known fact he's

00:56:25.560 a pretty vocal democrat supporter democrat donor from what i understand but that politics and celebrity

00:56:32.460 are you know basically the same thing with different angles um yeah that could come into play there could

00:56:39.100 be some sympathy but at the end of the day also from my understanding the involuntary manslaughter

00:56:43.420 i think it's like either a minimum a maximum of 18 months so it's like at the end of the day they

00:56:49.360 they might it might be short sentences that are symbolic of sorts but that some form of justice

00:56:54.520 has to occur at the criminal side but we'll see if no charges it's um in it'll be mind-blowing

00:57:02.900 flabbergasting and i will say yet again politics ruins everything because politically speaking if this

00:57:08.420 were the other way around they would be using it and exploiting it for the purposes of making a point

00:57:13.520 about firearms and second amendment issues they would they would weaponize it to make the point

00:57:18.720 if they decide not to press charges here one can only assume that they are invertedly weaponizing

00:57:23.700 another aspect of of politics that's a good point you're saying if this were an open republican actor

00:57:29.020 like a clint eastwood james wood what would be the sympathy if it were james woods and i like james

00:57:35.320 woods i'm not saying this because i don't know i get it imagine imagine if it were james woods i mean

00:57:39.380 this would be john a media field day john boy can't think of another one uh uh well they don't really come

00:57:45.260 out i don't know tina carano who am i thinking about the the the dirty jobs guy mike mike roe

00:57:52.320 it would be a field day uh but it's alec baldwin and so you know george stefanopoulos the cleanup guy

00:57:59.820 interviews him yeah no it's the same way that they're covering for this ftx guy who donated all

00:58:05.820 this you know these billions well he raised billions and he donated tens of millions to democrats

00:58:10.480 and the new york times writes about him like good guy hard in the right place may have made a sad

00:58:15.660 little mistake in a difficult industry gets it gets even worse i don't know if you saw the washington

00:58:19.740 post but the washington post it's not even a puff piece it's outright propaganda the headline or at

00:58:25.100 least one of the persons tweeted um the ftx crypto going bust or collapsing frustrates this

00:58:31.640 individual's uh ability to prevent pandemics something along those lines like like he was he because

00:58:36.920 he was donating so much money to preventing pandemics that the collapse is going to frustrate

00:58:41.120 this philanthropist uh desire to prevent the next pandemic it's it's it's it's in your face at this

00:58:47.340 point but uh just imagine like what would have been the different angle from the media had the politics of

00:58:52.340 this situation been different if he had donated millions to figure out whether this came from a lab

00:58:57.360 and the the side effects of the vaccine can you imagine how they would it's nuts but it's also

00:59:03.140 the the ftx is is a is a rabbit hole for another day but my guess it's no it's a good one i will say 0.98

00:59:09.620 i love the fact that the guy admitted to the vox reporter that it was all bullshit all the woke 0.69

00:59:13.680 nonsense was just to tell the left what they wanted to hear he said it he said it out loud he was like 1.00

00:59:18.180 great i i'm so glad that like he basically mocked them like you're so stupid you and all your dumb 1.00

00:59:24.680 puff pieces i was never on your team i was using you assholes to cover up my shit and you bought it 1.00

00:59:30.200 hook line and sinker i am like but what's worse than that is like someone said um who was it or 1.00

00:59:36.520 just ask the question you know how did these two dweebs dupe people into investing they didn't do 1.00

00:59:41.780 people they there were people celebrities investors who were for whatever the reason vouching for these

00:59:49.140 two people who couldn't convince an ordinary investor to put money in how these what was going

00:59:54.100 on here it's if there's a deeper story to all of this but uh as as the evidence unfolds we'll see

00:59:58.920 we'll see where that goes all right let's talk about gloria allred and uh mamie mitchell who we've 0.99

01:00:07.680 mentioned a couple of times here who is the script supervisor uh suing the producers as i said alleging

01:00:13.420 assault and intentional infliction of emotional distress intentional infliction here's gloria from

01:00:19.220 a november 2021 press conference mr baldwin should have assumed that the gun in question was loaded

01:00:27.000 unless and until it was demonstrated to him that it was not or checked by him that it was not loaded

01:00:36.440 even if the assistant director made an alleged statement to mr baldwin that the gun he was handing

01:00:45.020 to mr baldwin was a quote cold gun end quote mr baldwin should not have relied on such a statement

01:00:55.840 mr baldwin chose to play russian roulette when he fired a gun without checking it

01:01:04.400 and this uh it she went on to say in her claim again uh filed november of last year because now

01:01:11.380 it's been upheld after a motion to dismiss that there was nothing in the script about the gun being

01:01:16.980 discharged by baldwin or any other person they're saying it was not in the script for him to fire

01:01:22.140 once again if he fired he did it on his own it was like a joyride well he didn't mean to he says he

01:01:29.500 didn't pull the trigger which would necessarily imply he did not mean to pull the trigger if he did

01:01:33.600 or he did and i don't think that's the the salient point first of all from from that from that that was

01:01:39.820 a zoomed in or cropped in image from that interview when she was uh presenting the case with mimi mitchell

01:01:45.040 next to her behind them was a big a big banner of the name of the law firm which i thought was

01:01:49.780 i thought it was classic gloria yeah it wouldn't give lawyers a good name to begin with if we ever

01:01:55.140 deserved it but it was it was it was very in your face um but her arguments there are pretty

01:02:02.320 even poorly described because she says it was up to alec to check the gun to make sure it was it was

01:02:07.780 empty well no because if you're using blanks or dummies because when you're having extreme close-up

01:02:13.700 an ecu as they say in the industry it has to have bullets in so that you're not having a close-up

01:02:17.880 of a gun that doesn't have bullets in it nobody's gonna buy it so even by her own statements it wasn't

01:02:23.000 up to alec to make sure it was empty it's going to be arguable as to whether or not it was at the

01:02:28.220 end of the day bottom line up to alec to make sure that the rounds in it were dummy or blanks but one

01:02:34.140 thing for sure at the end of the day it was up to alec not to ever pull that trigger uh certainly

01:02:38.460 certainly if it's also true that nothing called for it in the script which by all accounts nothing did

01:02:43.220 because this was a rehearsal just to get a close-up of the gun so she had some too too bad

01:02:48.400 or weaker arguments that i think she tried to correct in that longer interview by saying you

01:02:54.180 know even if hall said it was a cold gun he shouldn't have relied on it he could have relied

01:02:58.900 on hall that it was a cold gun but he still should never have pulled the trigger period and so now that

01:03:03.760 the fbi has concluded it didn't go off on its own as if we needed an eight-month fbi investigation to

01:03:08.820 conclude that he should not have pulled the trigger period even if he were within his rights to

01:03:13.940 conclude or assume that it was a cold gun with blanks because he was assured of that

01:03:17.820 so this is the big civil lawsuit right now in which everybody's pointing the finger at each other

01:03:21.800 because it's just withstood a motion to dismiss which is very very bad news for alec baldwin um

01:03:26.700 that's that was the big his big chance to get rid of it was on the papers and the judges said no i'm

01:03:30.720 not getting rid of it on the papers so he's going to have to go through discovery and he's going to

01:03:34.300 have to either settle or go to a jury and now he's brought in the armorer she she's bringing in the 1.00

01:03:40.600 ammo guy and um a little bit of color on that too just to add to our earlier discussion they're saying

01:03:47.700 uh she she is accusing um seth kenny the ammo guy of supplying her with mislabeled dummy ammunition

01:03:56.140 that included live rounds that's what it says uh and then also describes a rushed and chaotic

01:04:01.360 environment on the set which created a quote perfect storm for safety breaches again that

01:04:05.820 goes back to the executive producers it goes back to her immediate supervisor and what that person

01:04:10.820 did to make sure that hannah gutierrez reed was able to do her job safely and they train the actor

01:04:15.720 safely and do all the things that you're supposed to do there's also been a series of text messages

01:04:20.240 released um between hannah gutierrez reed and seth kenny the the armorer and the ammo guy the sheriff's

01:04:27.500 has released a trove of documents um she asks kenny whether she can shoot hot rounds on a movie set

01:04:34.840 sounds almost like you know for fun like in our downtime kenny warns her never to shoot live ammo

01:04:41.080 out of prop guns calling it a serious mistake that quote always ends in tears but gutierrez reed

01:04:47.560 brushes him off telling him quote i'm still gonna shoot mine the records indicate an email from lane

01:04:53.520 looper a camera assistant to production manager roe walters about gun safety concerns saying quote

01:04:58.600 during the filming of gunfights on this job things are often played very fast and loose so far there

01:05:04.160 have been two accidental weapons discharges to be clear there are no safety meetings and uh just one

01:05:11.440 other thing as i mentioned her the the armorer's dad is thal reed and he's like the most legendary

01:05:18.740 armorer in hollywood he told investigators that he once brought live ammo to a training session

01:05:24.800 for seth kenny who kept some of that ammo according to the affidavit so this is him trying to help his

01:05:31.280 daughter by saying maybe seth got the ammo from me and mixed it in there i don't know whether it's

01:05:36.060 going to be helpful or not but we're starting to see potentially the chain into how those bullets got

01:05:40.640 on set how it wasn't intentional but it was very negligent and how if this armorer really did do

01:05:47.060 shooting with the live rounds someplace on the set for fun like her liability just went through the

01:05:53.800 roof it's um it this is the unfortunate thing like in law it's not a question of who you like who you

01:05:59.140 feel bad for i mean it's it's a game of chess where you just can anticipate the arguments or the next

01:06:04.460 moves it's one of two things and i i good good thing you brought up that text thread because there

01:06:11.160 were rumors of i think it's called plinking where they were shooting live rounds on set you're you're in

01:06:16.460 the desert time to kill have a little fun but even by hannah's own let's just take it at its word

01:06:22.620 she she discovered that there was live rounds mixed in with the dummy rats a lawyer my question is going

01:06:28.720 to be when did you discover that because if you discovered it at any moment prior to the incident

01:06:33.200 that's when you shut everything down that's what she's gonna say after for sure she's gonna say i had

01:06:39.080 no idea well yeah i went back afterwards and then noticed that she'll say afterwards but then you

01:06:43.980 gotta you gotta reconcile that with uh her asking seth kenny about shooting live rounds or hot rounds

01:06:48.660 on set where it sounds like people knew that there were hot rounds on set they might have just gotten

01:06:52.500 mixed up they might have forgot that they left one round in in in the gun after they were having

01:06:57.100 target practice so oh my god but but the question is when did anybody know that they were mixed in if

01:07:01.720 it was any time before that you shut everything down the absence of of or the lack of uh security

01:07:07.920 meetings and all this stuff it's going to be a set issue it's going to be a production issue

01:07:11.240 but also you know that doesn't absolve the armor it's going to be an armor issue if they're not

01:07:16.760 having safety meetings someone's got to speak up and say something and if it's your job to ensure

01:07:21.620 safety on that on that aspect of the film and you say nothing production also but people are hired to do

01:07:28.780 their jobs so it's um you can anticipate the arguments and what the evidence is going to have

01:07:33.760 to be one way or the other but that that text thread and that question is very damning and there

01:07:39.760 were rumors that people were firing live rounds or plinking uh all allegations and everyone has to

01:07:45.000 bear in mind baldwin's allegations are not proven fact not nor are mitchell's in her suit uh but yeah

01:07:50.920 there's there's serious questions as to what and when well and alec baldwin's countersuit really lays out

01:07:57.920 what we're discussing he has sued hannah gutierrez reed the film's armorer uh he has sued dave halls the

01:08:04.360 first assistant director who said cold gun and gave him the gun sarah zachary the crew member

01:08:09.440 in charge of props who we mentioned and seth kenny who was the primary supplier of guns and ammo to

01:08:16.000 the film set and he alleged they have not fulfilled they did not fulfill their professional duty

01:08:20.580 to maintain safety on the set now alec baldwin previously when he was looking at a lawsuit and

01:08:27.520 he hadn't yet fired back forgive the pun um he didn't much like it when you sue somebody

01:08:33.980 who um has no money which i think none of these people does here's what he said about lawsuits in

01:08:41.520 general getting filed in this case it's not eight what you have is a certain group of people litigants

01:08:47.740 and whatever on whatever side who their attitude is well the people who likely seem negligent have no

01:08:55.720 money and the people who have money are not negligent but we're not going to let that stop us from doing

01:09:02.520 what we need to do in terms of litigation so we have people that are suing people that they think

01:09:06.700 are deep pockets litigants but they're going to be able to well why sue people if you're not going

01:09:10.740 to get money that's what you're doing it for okay good question why are you doing it alec no it's

01:09:16.620 it's it's pathological okay he's he's he just needs to shut up i mean i i made him uh uh i produced an 0.98

01:09:24.120 analysis a little back just shut up alex like do what those pot brother lawyers do shut the blank up 0.98

01:09:30.240 stop talking he's he's portraying himself as the victim for being sued because he's got deep 0.97

01:09:35.140 pockets he pulled the trigger like right i understand that alec you pulled the trigger

01:09:41.040 you're not the victim for getting sued because someone died as a result of you pulling the

01:09:45.000 trigger and he keeps coming out with these statements publicly as though he's the victim 0.92

01:09:48.860 at the end of this and it's just such a stupid thing to say but he's like i'm rich that's the reason 0.77

01:09:54.180 they're suing me because i'm rich that's it well i mean everyone has insurance all these people 0.58

01:09:58.580 are going to be covered by insurance in the civil suit they should be covered by the insurance uh

01:10:02.580 that was provided to the movie set unless they did something intentional which would take them

01:10:06.800 outside of the coverage but in any event none of them has any money so they're judgment proof it's

01:10:10.940 really about if these people get criminally charged they're going to take a lot more seriously but a

01:10:14.940 civil suit that doesn't mean anything to these people they don't have two nickels to rub together i

01:10:19.000 presume well that and that's my understanding as well as that you know they're young they they don't have

01:10:23.520 assets and and even if they did it would require a lot of assets to settle or pay for a judgment on

01:10:29.220 this if one is is rendered um but i mean i just say from the legal perspective baldwin turning around

01:10:34.860 and counter suing people who are already defendants to maybe mitchell's lawsuit it it doesn't change

01:10:40.940 much from their perspective they're going to have to defend regardless um but i from a legal perspective

01:10:46.020 it's obviously the thing that alec baldwin should have done sympathy sympathy be damned they might have

01:10:50.320 no money um it's if someone put a live round it in baldwin's uh prop gun even if he pulled the trigger

01:10:57.940 uh he you know legally speaking he might be partly responsible but they are certainly also partly

01:11:04.860 responsible and i i would have i would have done the same thing and also recommended he do the same

01:11:09.040 thing forget the optics it's it's not i would have too but i probably wouldn't have gone out there and

01:11:15.220 said oh you know you don't sue anybody how did what was the last line i forget but he's just he just he

01:11:21.200 just can't be quiet and and it's it's just terrible all these things the internet's forever the the

01:11:26.720 people piece these things together and it's just they're dumb things to say just be quiet there's an

01:11:31.140 investigation going on but he cannot i guess to some extent can't stay out of the limelight can't stay

01:11:36.700 out of the the spotlight uh that's probably part part and parcel of what it means to be a celebrity or

01:11:41.540 want to pursue that life but uh man why would you sue people who have no money that's what you just

01:11:46.320 did that's what i wouldn't have said that i would have said if i'm if i get sued i'm gonna point the

01:11:50.740 finger at the people who i who really did the wrongdoing um and it wasn't it wasn't yours truly

01:11:55.440 but really the number one lesson is shut that you shut up scf you stop talking make it i don't know if 0.64

01:12:00.960 you've ever seen this ad by these guys called the pop brothers at law and they say if you get pulled 0.93

01:12:04.920 over the cops the brothers shut the app like just shut the f up just don't talk you can't say 0.62

01:12:09.700 anything wrong if you don't say anything but baldwin stephanopoulos roadside interviews in maine 0.51

01:12:15.220 it's his narcissism that i i'm not i'm not a psychiatrist i cannot clinically diagnose without

01:12:21.380 having met anybody but it sure looks like that it looks like he he's in love with himself and he

01:12:27.440 thinks he's going to succeed in convincing others of what he has already convinced himself um but my

01:12:32.900 goodness you you piece together some of those statements they're they are mutually contradictory

01:12:37.560 uh and they will certainly be used against them uh at a later point civilly or criminally

01:12:43.160 all right so at this point awaiting the final decision um do you think if indicted for these

01:12:50.140 charges that you know criminally negligent homicide um unintentional involuntary manslaughter do you

01:12:57.120 think that there is a realistic chance any of these people could be convicted criminally based on what

01:13:01.920 we know now um i know i i i couldn't venture that far out uh what that case about the twilight zone

01:13:08.800 guy who who got killed under the helicopter him and two kids back in the day uh and the director got

01:13:14.360 acquitted um i mean that's if anybody knows if you have a producer who can pull up the name i think

01:13:19.900 guy's name was moro or marrow um but it was it was another death on on a hollywood set and they they

01:13:25.560 got acquitted but by a narrow narrow margin uh this this is this is big uh this is in the spotlight

01:13:32.620 people will be shocked and appalled if they you know i forget who said it recently no one's above

01:13:38.380 the law but uh we've seen people locked up for years for much less and we've seen people in pretrial

01:13:44.660 detention for non-violent uh charges someone someone is going to have to be pushed on on a sword here

01:13:52.560 but whether or not they you know whether or not they serve lengthy periods of time someone has to

01:13:57.620 get convicted of something otherwise people are going to say two-tiered system and that no one is

01:14:03.640 above the law is absolute rubbish although i think a lot of people are already thoroughly convinced of

01:14:08.660 that in any event well how about that that female cop in minnesota who got convicted um after she shot 0.98

01:14:16.040 a man driving his car porter kim porter and she thought she was reaching for her taser very clearly no

01:14:21.600 and even disputed that she did not mean to shoot him with a gun but she she made a mistake it was an

01:14:28.320 accident and made a mistake in a circumstance where she would have from my understanding otherwise been

01:14:33.700 uh entitled to use lethal force right so right it's she's sitting in a prison right now so yeah it will 1.00

01:14:40.780 be a look very much like a two-tier system of justice one for the rich and famous and wealthy and

01:14:45.800 hard-left democrat and another for cop moms who have never gotten in trouble their entire 27-year 0.55

01:14:53.680 career and one night make a terrible mistake which is what alec baldwin did right terrible mistake best

01:14:58.620 case scenario for him uh when there was no lawful reason to be doing what he did what he ultimately

01:15:05.460 did in the first place the kim porter one is is atrocious i mean derrick chauvin

01:15:10.100 much more nebulous case the kim porter everyone acknowledged it was it was a bona fide legitimate

01:15:17.280 mistake and anybody who has seen those taser guns could understand how they could get confused

01:15:22.360 arguments that they're supposed to know which side of the body the taser's on versus the real

01:15:26.240 admitted mistake pulled the trigger killed someone's life in a circumstance where she would

01:15:30.520 have been entitled to use lethal force uh by all accounts in any event to jail and baldwin pulls the

01:15:36.180 trigger by accident or pulls the trigger on purpose but doesn't think there's any live round in there

01:15:40.480 kill someone and and walks yeah politics ruins everything we shall see david thank you so much 0.60

01:15:48.380 thank you very much for having us it was great all right to be continued see you soon thanks for

01:15:53.980 joining us today we're taking a couple of days off now for thanksgiving as i hope you are as well

01:15:58.500 and i hope you have a wonderful wonderful family holiday with your friends with your loved ones

01:16:03.960 with your turkey and don't forget those who are in need this holiday season it's been very

01:16:09.580 challenging i know for a lot of homeless shelters and other places that help families struggling

01:16:14.200 during this time of year like with the inflationary prices and so on so if you have a despair consider

01:16:19.480 giving to help your fellow human beings uh in the meantime all the best to you have a blessed

01:16:24.500 thanksgiving i'll talk to you monday thanks for listening to the megan kelly show no bs no agenda

01:16:31.800 and no fear

01:16:32.920 and no fear

01:16:32.940 you

The Megyn Kelly Show - November 23, 2022

Alec Baldwin ＂Rust＂ Movie Set Deadly Shooting： Deep Dive Into All Legal Angles, with Viva Frei ｜ Ep. 441

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