The Megyn Kelly Show - March 13, 2025


Alternate Theories, Alarming Details - Part 4 of Megyn Kelly Investigates： Baby Lisa's Disappearance ｜ Ep. 1025

Hosted by
Megyn Kelly
Mentioned
Lisa Debra Bradley Jeremy Irwin Chad Huber Cody Allnut John Jersey Tanko Boris Dubinsky Matt Shaver Missy Rasmussen Dane Greathouse Cindy Lorette Jackie Heller Megan Wright Phil Houston Jim Spellman Barry Allen Bill Stanton Christy Schiller Michael Allison Officer Wilson and 9 more
Canada Blinks First on Tariffs, Ukraine Agrees to Ceasefire, Trump Goes Car Shopping： AM Update 3⧸12 Schumer Caves in Budget Battle, Putin Playing Hardball, Michelle Obama Podcast Flop： AM Update 3⧸14

Episode Stats


Length

38 minutes

Words per minute

165.16

Word count

6,401

Sentence count

526

Harmful content

Misogyny

8

sentences flagged

Toxicity

8

sentences flagged

Hate speech

4

sentences flagged


Summary

Summaries generated with gmurro/bart-large-finetuned-filtered-spotify-podcast-summ .

In October of 2011, Baby Lisa vanished from her crib in the middle of the night in Kansas City, Missouri. Her parents, Jeremy and Deborah Irwin, have been searching for answers for almost 13 years, but no one has come forward with any clues as to what happened to their daughter.

Transcript

Transcript generated with Whisper (turbo).
Misogyny classifications generated with MilaNLProc/bert-base-uncased-ear-misogyny .
Toxicity classifications generated with s-nlp/roberta_toxicity_classifier .
Hate speech classifications generated with facebook/roberta-hate-speech-dynabench-r4-target .
Hosts, guests, and mentioned names generated with spaCy (en_core_web_sm), reconciled against Wikidata.
00:00:00.000 Now streaming on Paramount Plus.
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00:00:12.000 Espionage?
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00:00:30.000 I'm Megan Kelly.
00:00:31.000 Welcome to The Megan Kelly Show.
00:00:33.000 And episode four of our special series,
00:00:35.000 Megan Kelly Investigates.
00:00:37.000 We're tackling the disappearance of baby Lisa.
00:00:40.000 She vanished from her crib in the middle of the night.
00:00:42.000 In October of 2011.
00:00:44.000 Today, she'd be a teenager.
00:00:46.000 But where is she?
00:00:48.000 And who took her?
00:00:50.000 Someone knows.
00:00:52.000 A case like this generates a ton of interest and theories.
00:00:56.000 Some, as we will explore in this episode,
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00:02:08.000 The Kansas City police have stiff-armed the press,
00:02:11.000 saying next to nothing about this case publicly.
00:02:14.000 Neither Kansas City PD nor the FBI would talk to us,
00:02:17.000 and philanthropist Christy Haas Schiller's offer of a $100,000 reward
00:02:22.000 for any information that could lead to the return of Lisa remains unclaimed.
00:02:27.000 If you could write that $100,000 check,
00:02:30.000 it'd probably be the most delightful money you ever spent in your life.
00:02:34.000 Absolutely.
00:02:35.000 Still have hope.
00:02:36.000 While 42-year-old John Tanko, known as Jersey, may seem to have been the best suspect,
00:02:43.000 given his criminal history and that mysterious call from the Irwin's stolen phone
00:02:48.000 to the phone of Tanko's ex-girlfriend, Megan Wright, on the night baby Lisa went missing,
00:02:53.000 no arrests were ever made.
00:02:56.000 In 2011, police said they'd moved on from Tanko,
00:02:59.000 and there appears to have been little to no movement on this case in the nearly 13 years since it started.
00:03:06.000 Jeremy and Deborah have been left in limbo.
00:03:10.000 There were yearly vigils.
00:03:12.000 Please, God, keep her safe until she is home with us.
00:03:16.000 And occasional interviews, including one with me that aired in January 2014.
00:03:21.000 When I interviewed you a couple of years ago, Deborah,
00:03:23.000 you said even back then you were looking in the crowd whenever you pass a child who would be Lisa's age.
00:03:28.000 Yeah, we actually, I did it all day today when we were walking around before we came here to see you.
00:03:34.000 And, uh, and I just said to Jeremy,
00:03:37.000 I'm really tired of looking at everybody else's kid open. It's mine.
00:03:41.000 This has to be its own form of torture.
00:03:44.000 Jeremy Irwin.
00:03:46.000 I think about her every day.
00:03:48.000 It doesn't go away and the pain is still there.
00:03:54.000 And, uh, just feel like you're not complete.
00:03:58.000 Do you ever feel bitter, Jeremy?
00:04:00.000 You know, I would feel, I think I'd feel bitter, you know,
00:04:03.000 that my child was taken, that I didn't get this time,
00:04:06.000 that if she's still out there, I've missed so much.
00:04:09.000 Yeah, there's a lot of that.
00:04:10.000 And, um, I mean, it's, it's pretty, it's pretty frustrating.
00:04:14.000 And you have a lot of hate and anger on aspects like that.
00:04:20.000 Um, but there's nothing you can do about it.
00:04:23.000 And that's not going to help get Lisa home any faster. 0.98
00:04:26.000 Um, so, I mean, it's frustrating that everybody's still out living their life
00:04:30.000 and going to the grocery store and doing whatever they want to do.
00:04:33.000 And, uh, meanwhile, we're just left to sit in the ashes.
00:04:38.000 Deborah Bradley.
00:04:40.000 You know, it's, it's really hard as she gets older and still not having her home.
00:04:45.000 And thinking about all the things I continue to miss out on.
00:04:50.000 And it's like all of us have been robbed of that.
00:04:53.000 And that is really hard to accept.
00:04:59.000 I just started reading stuff and just writing down a name here and a name here.
00:05:05.000 And then I started doing my own searches.
00:05:08.000 Deborah's aunt, Cindy Lorette, has been relentless,
00:05:11.000 constantly searching for clues, trying to piece together what may have happened.
00:05:16.000 I've done my own thing because there isn't anybody to help.
00:05:19.000 I have sat in courtrooms.
00:05:22.000 I have done my own surveillances.
00:05:24.000 I visited people in jail that I didn't know.
00:05:27.000 I don't really want to tell you everything I did, but I did a lot of stuff.
00:05:33.000 But everything that I was reading throughout the internet,
00:05:36.000 it just kept leading me back to the area that I was living at.
00:05:39.000 So I got a job at this little convenience store.
00:05:41.000 And I didn't tell anybody who I was.
00:05:43.000 I just listened and I wanted to know things.
00:05:46.000 I wanted to.
00:05:47.000 And I did.
00:05:48.000 I started to hear things.
00:05:49.000 I mean, people talk.
00:05:50.000 Kansas City moms Missy Rasmussen and Jackie Heller,
00:05:53.000 who are writing a book about this case,
00:05:55.000 have spent more than a decade looking for leads.
00:05:58.000 Where did that take you?
00:05:59.000 What did you find?
00:06:00.000 It led us down some bad places,
00:06:05.000 some bad neighborhoods, talking to some bad people.
00:06:08.000 Was your theory starting to develop in a different direction
00:06:11.000 from where the mainstream narrative was going, Missy?
00:06:14.000 Yeah, definitely the mainstream narrative here is either Jersey or the mom.
00:06:21.000 It is overwhelming how many people think that Deborah had something to do with it.
00:06:27.000 Nobody in this town is looking for her because they think her mother killed her.
00:06:33.000 And she got away with it.
00:06:35.000 Much of what they've heard is secondhand and goes to some very dark places,
00:06:40.000 to drug dens, to baby brokers, to terrible conclusions.
00:06:45.000 My understanding is that you guys have spoken to at least five people about this theory,
00:06:52.000 that some criminal element somehow connected to the family was responsible for this,
00:06:56.000 and that at least three of them mentioned the sale, the sale of a baby.
00:07:02.000 Yeah.
00:07:03.000 Correct. Right.
00:07:04.000 In 2021, Deborah said much the same to a local reporter.
00:07:08.000 What are you sure of, Deborah?
00:07:10.000 If the tips are right and the information we were given is right, she was sold.
00:07:18.000 You believe she was sold?
00:07:19.000 Absolutely.
00:07:20.000 To add to that theory, one month after Lisa went missing,
00:07:24.000 Deborah and Jeremy found a charge on a debit card, $69.04,
00:07:30.000 paid to a British company that called itself a name-changing service.
00:07:35.000 This is one of the theories that, of course, puzzles me.
00:07:40.000 How would the person wanting to steal baby Lisa think that they were going to get away with stealing baby Lisa
00:07:48.000 on this night where the mother is at home?
00:07:52.000 There is nothing about walking into someone's house and taking their baby that makes any sense to me.
00:07:59.000 But I don't know that the person doing that was a logical, rational, you know, person the way that you and I are.
00:08:10.000 So if it has to do with drugs, in other words, they might have been out of their minds.
00:08:14.000 Sure. Yeah.
00:08:15.000 I would guess for sure.
00:08:18.000 If we think that there might have been a criminal drug element involved in this, and you guys have been out there investigating this for all this time, you know, pretty publicly,
00:08:30.000 is there any fear on your part about your safety?
00:08:35.000 Absolutely.
00:08:36.000 Yes.
00:08:37.000 We've had people tell us, you know, we'll tell them, you know, there's $100,000 reward.
00:08:42.000 And they say, well, what good is the reward if I'm not alive to spend it?
00:08:46.000 Do you ever, like, do your own investigation, start talking to people about what they know, what they saw?
00:08:52.000 Jeremy Irwin.
00:08:53.000 Yeah, I mean, we, we did for a long, long time.
00:08:56.000 And I mean, most of the stuff that we've gotten is stories that people have heard from other people.
00:09:03.000 So it's a lot of it's third person stories.
00:09:06.000 And I think there's real merit in a group of individuals that operate in that area that get rid of kids and illegally adopt or what, however you want to phrase it, but take in children that they're not supposed to have and redistribute them.
00:09:24.000 So that's that's definitely going on up here. And at least at the time when I was talking with the investigators about it, they laughed in my face about it.
00:09:37.000 So other storylines that have circulated amongst the locals involve Deborah interacting with the drug underworld, possible urban myths with no proof, including one that baby Lisa was handed off to pay a drug debt.
00:09:51.000 Was there anything that you looking back may have done to bring any of that cast of characters into your life?
00:09:57.000 You know, certainly, certainly not us, but we had people nearby that were into that lifestyle.
00:10:06.000 And you and Deborah never went there, scored drugs, called for anything from anybody connected to that place?
00:10:14.000 Oh, no, no, never. Well, not a percent.
00:10:16.000 Did they ever accuse you or Jeremy of being on drugs or having a connection to this house?
00:10:23.000 Deborah Bradley?
00:10:24.000 No, because we offered samples of our hair so they can test hair and find out anything and everything you've done.
00:10:30.000 Some drugs, including methamphetamine, can be detected this way.
00:10:33.000 And so they were able to tell that I was telling the truth about that, that as far as that, if there was a connection and that was it, that's Nolan Lloyd.
00:10:42.000 That's just not even an option.
00:10:44.000 So I ask you for the record, have you been on drugs?
00:10:47.000 Were you on drugs around the time Lisa went missing?
00:10:50.000 Absolutely not.
00:10:52.000 And how about Jeremy?
00:10:54.000 Absolutely not.
00:10:56.000 It just wasn't your thing.
00:10:57.000 You were not somebody who partook.
00:11:00.000 No, I watched in high school, watched friends suffer from addiction, and I didn't want to be that way.
00:11:10.000 I just seen so much suffering, aside from the fact that it's just not appealing to me.
00:11:17.000 And as a parent, that'd be the last thing on my mind.
00:11:20.000 Mm-hmm.
00:11:21.000 You don't do crystal meth and you didn't do crystal meth at the time she disappeared.
00:11:26.000 Oh God, no, no, no.
00:11:28.000 Okay.
00:11:29.000 Yeah, because I'm sure you've heard that some people theorize you or Jeremy had a connection to this drug den and brought this cast of nefarious characters into your life and one of them took her.
00:11:42.000 But those people should ask the cops about the DNA analysis on our hair and the drug test analysis on our hair. 0.99
00:11:49.000 It's not there for a reason because it doesn't exist.
00:11:52.000 So at least I have proof of that.
00:11:55.000 Reporter Jim Spellman covered the case for weeks after the story broke.
00:11:59.000 I have seen not one bit of information to indicate that Deborah Bradley, Jeremy Irwin, or anybody in their family was involved in some sort of drug thing.
00:12:10.000 And I'll tell you, Megan, I'm a drug addict in recovery.
00:12:13.000 I've been clean for 21 years now and I'm pretty good at figuring out drug addicts. 0.82
00:12:19.000 The idea that Deborah Bradley or Jeremy Irwin were some sort of drug addicts in deep to dealers or something like that is ridiculous.
00:12:27.000 I put, you know, as close to certainty that that is not the case as I can come not, you know, not blood testing people.
00:12:37.000 And now you are going to hear the absolute worst, darkest versions.
00:12:41.000 Again, these are most likely urban myths.
00:12:44.000 We just don't know about what may have happened to Lisa.
00:12:48.000 And we do need to warn you, they come with awful, grisly details.
00:12:53.000 Author Jackie Heller.
00:12:55.000 And this is what really breaks my heart about this whole thing is the one consistent narrative that we have found in this story is that Lisa is no longer with us.
00:13:05.000 What you're saying is you've talked to people who think they know what happened and who say the baby was killed.
00:13:12.000 Yes.
00:13:13.000 We had someone tell us that Lisa is in the bottom of Smithville Lake and they put her body in a duffel bag and made sure that the blocks weighed more than she did.
00:13:25.000 So there was no chance of her body coming up.
00:13:28.000 Those are the kind of things that we've, that we've heard about this.
00:13:33.000 Cindy Lorette, Deborah's aunt, heard something even darker.
00:13:37.000 Somebody had Lisa and they got scared because the media, it became such a big deal.
00:13:44.000 That person got scared and he chopped Lisa up.
00:13:49.000 He took her to this house.
00:13:50.000 And one of the people that was in the house told me this story that she was brought to the house and they were at the edge, the end of the bed and she was crying. 0.99
00:14:02.000 And they said to get the fucking baby out of the house. 1.00
00:14:11.000 I still don't know what to believe. 0.99
00:14:13.000 We managed to get our hands on police documents with equally dark testimonials.
00:14:18.000 These are supplemental interview reports that police do not make public.
00:14:23.000 They reflect interviews with two different men who claim to know something about the baby Lisa case.
00:14:29.000 We have confirmed the case file numbers on these reports and we've spoken with both men, Chad Huber and the second man interviewed who asked us not to use his name.
00:14:41.000 They confirmed their conversations with Kansas City police officer Michael Wells, the very same name that appears in these documents.
00:14:49.000 It appears that Officer Wells was investigating a car theft ring, among other things.
00:14:54.000 We discussed these police interviews with co-authors Missy Rasmussen and Jackie Heller.
00:15:00.000 These are follow up interviews with people who have been charged with unrelated, you know, petty crimes, theft crimes and so on just a few months after baby Lisa disappeared.
00:15:08.000 And this is a police interview with someone named Chad Huber.
00:15:11.000 Do you guys know that name?
00:15:12.000 Have you heard of Chad Huber?
00:15:13.000 No.
00:15:14.000 OK, so back in 2012, Chad Huber apparently had thoughts on baby Lisa and named three new people with a possible connection to this case.
00:15:25.000 Three new names we have not discussed in this series.
00:15:29.000 Matt Shaver.
00:15:31.000 Boris Dubinsky.
00:15:33.000 And Cody Allnut.
00:15:35.000 Huber also mentions one that you'll be familiar with.
00:15:38.000 Dane Greathouse.
00:15:39.000 This is complicated and a lot to follow.
00:15:42.000 Bear with me.
00:15:43.000 According to the interviews, Chad Huber, car thief suspect, tells cops that Cody Allnut, an 18 year old who, according to his father, was hanging out with a bad crowd, wanted to talk to Chad about baby Lisa.
00:15:59.000 Chad Huber tells police, presumably based on that conversation with Cody Allnut, that baby Lisa is dead.
00:16:06.000 And while the documents do not reveal anything about how, Chad Huber says several people are involved.
00:16:13.000 Dane Greathouse, the same guy who allegedly had the phone, called by the Irwin's stolen cell phone the night Lisa went missing, was paid to move Lisa's deceased body, says Huber, from one grave site to another.
00:16:30.000 Who?
00:16:31.000 Who?
00:16:32.000 Who paid him?
00:16:33.000 According to Huber, it was convicted criminal Boris Dubinsky.
00:16:37.000 Huber tells police, as reflected in these documents, Dubinsky paid $15,000 for the transfer.
00:16:43.000 Why would he do that?
00:16:45.000 And where would this guy possibly get 15 grand?
00:16:48.000 What's more, according to a 2012 police interview, Huber tells cops that Matt Shaver, the owner of that house in which Megan Wright was doing drugs on the night Lisa went missing, had pictures, pictures the cops might want to see.
00:17:04.000 First, can I just ask you for your reaction to that excerpt?
00:17:08.000 Interesting.
00:17:09.000 Very, very interesting.
00:17:11.000 What is interesting about it to you?
00:17:13.000 The names, the Schaefer name and Cody are names that we've heard.
00:17:17.000 What is interesting to me is that it parallels an experience that we had.
00:17:22.000 We spoke with someone who Cody had approached her, her story, her words.
00:17:31.000 Cody had approached her, seemingly really needing to get this off his chest.
00:17:38.000 And this name, Dane Greathouse, of course, is very relevant.
00:17:43.000 That's who we think that call was intended for.
00:17:46.000 I think it was a signal.
00:17:48.000 That the baby had been taken.
00:17:51.000 Right.
00:17:52.000 And so if he really did move the body and was paid $15,000 to move the body from the original burial site.
00:18:00.000 I mean, there's a lot, there's a lot of buzz around Dane Greathouse and a few different lines into him.
00:18:05.000 Again, we don't know if they're true.
00:18:07.000 This is just as reflected in the police report.
00:18:09.000 I had someone send me a text message once and it said, this is the person you need to talk to.
00:18:17.000 This person has all your answers.
00:18:19.000 Then it was a photo of Dane Greathouse.
00:18:21.000 We've tried to talk to him.
00:18:22.000 He, he is, he's a trip, big time trip.
00:18:27.000 He wanted like thousands of dollars for us to talk to him.
00:18:32.000 Oh, great.
00:18:33.000 Yeah, we're not entertaining this.
00:18:35.000 Dane Greathouse did speak with us, telling us he was questioned by police.
00:18:40.000 He told us he knew who Boris Dubinsky was, but did not actually know the man.
00:18:46.000 He also said he never moved anything, nor was he paid anything.
00:18:50.000 We found him living at home with his mother where he was participating in drug court, an alternative to jail that offers treatment and education.
00:18:58.000 Dane followed up with a text that read in part, I'm glad you guys came over and talked.
00:19:03.000 Honestly, I just hope this can bring light to the case.
00:19:06.000 And in time, things get solved.
00:19:09.000 Boris Dubinsky also told us he had nothing to do with baby Lisa's disappearance.
00:19:14.000 He said he was once in the same jail with Chad Huber, that he knows what Huber said about him, but that none of it is true.
00:19:23.000 Matt Shaver told us there were indeed photos of the riverbank stored on his PlayStation memory card.
00:19:29.000 He said police confiscated that card.
00:19:32.000 And when they did, they told him the photos had originated on Cody Allnut's phone.
00:19:38.000 He says he has no idea if they were pictures of a gravesite.
00:19:42.000 As these pictures show, there was a search done along the banks of the Missouri River.
00:19:47.000 No body was found.
00:19:49.000 What Cody Allnut saw or did not see, we may never know.
00:19:53.000 We were not able to speak with him.
00:19:55.000 We did speak with his father, Larry, who told us Cody has schizophrenia.
00:20:00.000 Larry Allnut is his son's limited guardian and conservator.
00:20:03.000 He told us the FBI interviewed Cody once around the time Lisa disappeared and never returned.
00:20:10.000 As for Megan Wright, Megan, have you heard the name Cody Allnut or Boris Dubinsky?
00:20:17.000 Have you heard those names?
00:20:18.000 Those don't sound familiar to me.
00:20:20.000 But she does remember Matt Shaver, who gave her a place to stay all those years ago.
00:20:25.000 Matt was one of the people, him and his wife, owned the house I was referring to.
00:20:30.000 And what was he like?
00:20:31.000 He was a carpet layer, best I remember. 0.99
00:20:36.000 So he was always very active, hardworking kind of guy, trying to support his family.
00:20:42.000 When I moved in there, they were trying not to lose their house.
00:20:47.000 So I was trying to help them get things cleaned up, kind of get everything, move people out, make it a more family appropriate environment for him and his wife and their kids.
00:20:59.000 That's why I moved in there.
00:21:02.000 And the perk of it was hiding from Jersey.
00:21:05.000 He was not familiar to that house at that time.
00:21:08.000 Did the Kansas City police investigate any of these claims or come to a conclusion about this cast of characters?
00:21:15.000 We don't know because they won't say.
00:21:18.000 When we called and asked, they again told us they will not comment on a so-called open investigation.
00:21:25.000 And we are not the only ones being ignored by the Kansas City PD.
00:21:29.000 According to Jeremy, they have received not a single update on their missing daughter in the last 10 years.
00:21:37.000 I find it appalling that they haven't contacted you in years.
00:21:40.000 You don't even get an annual phone call from a police officer saying we're still looking into it.
00:21:45.000 We haven't forgotten about you.
00:21:46.000 Oh, no, no, I.
00:21:49.000 I couldn't even tell you the last time we were contacted by law enforcement, it was.
00:21:55.000 Maybe year three, maybe.
00:21:58.000 Oh, wow.
00:21:59.000 It's been a long time.
00:22:00.000 They've moved on for sure.
00:22:02.000 I think I think they realized how big it was, and I think they screwed it up really badly.
00:22:07.000 And I think they just want to be done with it.
00:22:10.000 Author Jackie Heller.
00:22:12.000 They dropped the ball.
00:22:13.000 They dropped the ball.
00:22:14.000 They had tunnel vision from the beginning.
00:22:16.000 And they they've dropped the ball.
00:22:19.000 They have let Lisa down.
00:22:21.000 Once again, Deborah's aunt Cindy Lorette.
00:22:23.000 I know people who have called the tips hotline that have reached out to me and to get no help.
00:22:32.000 About three months ago, a guy thought he saw Lisa in Las Vegas.
00:22:37.000 He ended up getting the phone number to the police department.
00:22:40.000 He called there and they said, OK, thanks.
00:22:42.000 And just hung up.
00:22:43.000 They did not ask him any questions.
00:22:45.000 He gave him them the information.
00:22:47.000 They don't care.
00:22:48.000 They're not looking for Lisa. 1.00
00:22:49.000 They don't give a shit. 1.00
00:22:50.000 They think that she's dead somewhere. 1.00
00:22:51.000 Mom did it. 0.52
00:22:52.000 And they're going to.
00:22:53.000 Well, they're not even trying to prove that.
00:22:54.000 I mean, they're just done.
00:22:56.000 They're done with it.
00:22:57.000 Author Missy Rasmussen.
00:22:58.000 If it were me and someone told me that someone told them they saw they know that a baby was murdered, I would even three, you know, three degrees removed.
00:23:12.000 Triple hearsay.
00:23:13.000 Yeah.
00:23:14.000 I would still want to get that off my chest.
00:23:16.000 So I get it.
00:23:17.000 But it is really difficult to get any closer than, say, two degrees.
00:23:23.000 You know, it should be easier for police.
00:23:26.000 Police have all sorts of investigatory abilities and powers that we don't have to figure out who was where, when and what the phone records of that person show and what their actions were.
00:23:37.000 It just lacks the person, the right person to come in and be like, we're finally going to do what needs to be done for Lisa.
00:23:45.000 Reporter Jim Spellman, who covered the case extensively, has a different view.
00:23:49.000 Every indication that I got is that the Kansas City police and the FBI were conducting a very vigorous and thorough investigation.
00:23:58.000 Every time that I would uncover some new element or another reporter would uncover some new thing, the police had already been there generally a couple of weeks before.
00:24:08.000 And we saw lots of evidence that they were thoroughly tracking down people's alibis, that they were, you know, searching electronically, that they were searching surveillance cameras.
00:24:21.000 That would have been an asset for the family. And the family ended up treating them like they were the enemy.
00:24:26.000 Hmm. So to those who think, oh, the Kansas City police botched this, you know, they just they failed to investigate properly.
00:24:33.000 We would have found her if we had a more robust police department on the case.
00:24:38.000 You don't agree with that? I don't agree with that.
00:24:40.000 I think that they did a very thorough investigation.
00:24:43.000 All of the key people that surfaced in the media that surfaced through my reporting had been thoroughly investigated.
00:24:52.000 John Jersey Tanko was questioned by the police at the time.
00:24:56.000 He denies any involvement and the case remains open.
00:24:59.000 Did the FBI ever tell you, Megan, that you were cleared?
00:25:03.000 I realize you only had that one six hour meeting. Did they ever or the Kansas City PD?
00:25:08.000 Megan Wright.
00:25:09.000 They told me they'd be in touch if they needed anything else from me.
00:25:12.000 And I haven't heard anything in 12 years.
00:25:14.000 Never seen anything where they made a statement publicly bringing up my name saying, oh, she was cooperative.
00:25:21.000 She came in for an interview and we have ruled her out as a suspect.
00:25:24.000 You know, that'd be great to hear.
00:25:26.000 But it's never happened.
00:25:28.000 As for Jeremy Irwin and Deborah Bradley, it's been dark narratives, 12 years of missing their baby girl and a struggle to stay together.
00:25:41.000 But it's really hard to be there for someone else that you love when you're falling apart yourself.
00:25:48.000 And we tried to make it work for a really long time.
00:25:54.000 And I think it just got to the point where, unfortunately, we fell into this statistic.
00:26:00.000 Their relationship came to an end in the summer of 2022 and Deborah moved out of their home on North Lister.
00:26:07.000 I had hoped we would beat it, beat the odds.
00:26:11.000 But it's OK, because.
00:26:13.000 Now we have the chance to get better on our own and be better for our family and ourselves.
00:26:20.000 You know, the the main concern for me outside second to Lisa has always been the boys and making sure that they have some semblance of a normal life, even with this going on.
00:26:35.000 And I feel that we have at least succeeded in that.
00:26:39.000 And you still notwithstanding the fact that you're separated from from Deborah, you still believe in her.
00:26:44.000 You still it hasn't caused you to doubt her.
00:26:46.000 No, no. I mean, not at all.
00:26:48.000 I mean, it doesn't change the fact.
00:26:50.000 I mean, we're talking about my daughter here and we're talking about the her mother.
00:26:56.000 So it's the same thing I've been saying for years.
00:26:59.000 You know, if you're going to tell me that Deborah did it, you better tell me what it is and you better tell me a story associated with it.
00:27:08.000 Other than that, I've heard it all and you can't tell me nothing new.
00:27:12.000 I think that God put us together because he knew we would be able to survive long enough to be there for each other in positive ways.
00:27:23.000 And we may not be together now, but I still trust him and I will always love him because he has my kids.
00:27:33.000 You look at the joy that you get from raising two boys and having them go out into the world and they're awesome young men and they're they're going to kill it.
00:27:44.000 And they have their own life paths and everything's starting to work out for them.
00:27:48.000 And but as a man, I was robbed my portion of that with my daughter.
00:27:54.000 You know, I hope one day that tomorrow or a year from now or whatever.
00:27:59.000 I hope that Lisa's found and that she comes home and we can start over and at 13 years old or 18 years old or however old she is.
00:28:10.000 But it would be nice to start that relationship in which I haven't been able to have this whole time.
00:28:18.000 What if all it takes is just the one person to watch what we're doing now?
00:28:25.000 And they like, oh, this kid looks familiar.
00:28:28.000 It could happen in so many ways.
00:28:31.000 And we've also put our DNA with Ancestry.com and 23andMe and I open up my email and I, you know, and I'll see you.
00:28:42.000 You have another relative and I always click on it hoping it's her.
00:28:48.000 Cindy Lorette.
00:28:49.000 I've tried to convince myself that she's no longer here and to move on, but I can't.
00:28:53.000 I'm going with my gut and my heart.
00:28:56.000 She's out there somewhere.
00:28:57.000 She's a beautiful little girl.
00:28:58.000 And we're going to find her.
00:28:59.000 This is for Lisa.
00:29:01.000 We need to find what happened to Lisa.
00:29:03.000 Where the hell is she?
00:29:04.000 Dead or alive, we need to find out what happened.
00:29:07.000 There, I said it.
00:29:09.000 Like, how do you make sense of why this happened?
00:29:12.000 There's, there's a lot of, a lot of tough questions.
00:29:15.000 And, um, the answer is free will and evil men will do evil things.
00:29:21.000 What's your best hope of where she's been these past 12 years?
00:29:26.000 My best hope is that she's safe and she's with people that love her and care for her and feed her well and treat her well.
00:29:37.000 And she's able to go to the doctor and maybe she's able to go to school somewhere.
00:29:43.000 If she just has no idea that she's actually someone else's child. 0.80
00:29:47.000 That's what I'm hoping that she's totally ignorant to it and live in a completely normal life. 0.99
00:29:52.000 That's what I really hope for.
00:29:54.000 Do you ever wonder whether it would be easier if you knew, you know, one way or the other, what had happened?
00:30:01.000 If just, even if the outcome were, were bad, you know, that you had a confirmation that she had passed, would that somehow be easier?
00:30:09.000 Um, well, I think if that's my two options, if I would, were to know that something bad happened or to never know, then I'll just stay never knowing, I guess.
00:30:22.000 Jeremy would rather never know.
00:30:27.000 And he and Deborah didn't make it.
00:30:30.000 Bill Stanton spent a lot of time with Deborah and Jeremy.
00:30:33.000 He joined me along with our other go to crime expert, Phil Houston.
00:30:37.000 You know, you could feel the bond and I saw it and I'm sure you saw it between the two of them.
00:30:45.000 I mean, it's a nightmare.
00:30:46.000 And statistically, they should have been divorced within months.
00:30:50.000 Mm hmm.
00:30:51.000 But their faith in Lisa and themselves kept them together for years.
00:30:56.000 You know, I know people in a lot higher tax brackets than them, you know, a lot higher education than them that, you know, would have crumbled.
00:31:06.000 It says he never doubted her.
00:31:07.000 He never doubted her.
00:31:09.000 Never doubted her.
00:31:10.000 It's a sad love story.
00:31:11.000 But when you watch her today, what jumped out at you?
00:31:14.000 That this woman has evolved as a person, how she remains resolute.
00:31:20.000 And I wanted her to be guilty more than anyone, because statistically she was.
00:31:25.000 I wanted to wrap it up and get the heck home.
00:31:27.000 You know, they had no reason to accept me in their home.
00:31:31.000 I told them as soon as I got there, I'm not here for you.
00:31:35.000 Meaning that if it's you, I'm coming for you.
00:31:38.000 And I said that to them and they they looked me square in the eye.
00:31:42.000 Help find our baby.
00:31:44.000 What did you make of the fact that in my interview with Deborah?
00:31:48.000 She was saying this did jump out at me.
00:31:50.000 She was saying things like there's an example of a mother who found her daughter after 16 years.
00:31:55.000 There's an example of a father who found his kid after X years.
00:31:58.000 I went to 23andMe and I gave my DNA.
00:32:01.000 I went to Ancestry.com and I gave my DNA there just in case, you know, she finds it.
00:32:05.000 I realized even somebody who had done something would be smart enough to say present tense,
00:32:10.000 present tense, present tense.
00:32:11.000 So I that's OK.
00:32:13.000 I'll check that to the side.
00:32:14.000 But doing things like that, I believe her that she did searches for a child who came back.
00:32:19.000 Why would you do that if you knew your child was no longer alive?
00:32:22.000 No, that's what that's what gets her through the day.
00:32:24.000 What did you make of that stuff, Phil?
00:32:26.000 I believe that she has.
00:32:27.000 But it's also her undoing, I believe.
00:32:31.000 I spoke to her about a year and a half ago.
00:32:34.000 And when I hung up, I thought, my goodness, the frustration that she's feeling is going to eat her alive. 1.00
00:32:43.000 And and, you know, I don't want to trivialize it in this comparison.
00:32:48.000 But, you know, think for a moment, you're at your house and you all said you're looking for your car keys and you can't find them and how quickly you become frustrated.
00:32:57.000 And you look and you start, you know, you know, hollering at people and, you know, help me find my keys and, you know, whatever.
00:33:04.000 Think if that frustration went on for 12 years.
00:33:08.000 How would you how would you, you know, how big would that build that you're looking for this thing that you can't find?
00:33:16.000 That leads me back to these police reports that you guys have seen, these interview reports that we managed to get our hands on.
00:33:22.000 And they talk about how these alleged petty criminals around this case allegedly again, this very much could be crooks trying to lower their sentences and give police fake little gold nuggets.
00:33:38.000 But they talk about having seen pictures of a grave site, pictures of a mound of dirt.
00:33:44.000 Somebody allegedly brought the baby in a black garbage bag and buried it like there's some of that out there.
00:33:52.000 I mean, it's possible that she did the same thing, that that's that's all made up, but that she did actually bring the baby out there and that the baby was buried.
00:34:00.000 And this same Keystone cop force just didn't find it.
00:34:04.000 So the first thing that comes to my mind, Megan, is that if I've committed a crime as heinous as this this particular crime, I find it hard to believe I'd be running around telling people that we, you know, we've done this and so forth.
00:34:22.000 And, you know, while one person might do it, I think if it were a group effort, that one person would be in hot water pretty quickly with the rest of the team, so to speak.
00:34:35.000 You know, even if they were under the influence of drugs the next morning, they would probably be saying to themselves, we need to put a, you know, put a lid on this.
00:34:43.000 The greatest thing I think Deborah's got in her favor.
00:34:46.000 You tell me if I'm wrong, Bill, is Phil Houston.
00:34:52.000 And for that, nothing to add.
00:34:54.000 Right. Absolutely.
00:34:55.000 I just can't get past the fact that the human lie detector, CIA, 25 years, breaking terrorists, breaking double agents, seeing the deception where none, no one else could, that that guy got fooled by Deborah Bradley.
00:35:09.000 I don't believe it.
00:35:10.000 Thank you for the kind words, Megan.
00:35:13.000 Believe me, like you, this case has haunted me.
00:35:16.000 And I pray often that I'm right and that she's right, that Lisa's out there somewhere.
00:35:23.000 Coming up in our next episode, Jersey John Tanko, the man everyone wants to know more about.
00:35:30.000 We found him.
00:35:32.000 And wait until you hear what he told me.
00:35:35.000 We'll see you tomorrow for the final episode.
00:35:38.000 Don't miss that.
00:35:39.000 But first, if you're watching right now, please take a look at this picture of Lisa as she might look now.
00:35:44.000 If you're listening, you can see the photo on YouTube or just go to Megan Kelly dot com.
00:35:49.000 If you see her or think you might have any information that can help find her, please write to me.
00:35:55.000 The address is Megan, M-E-G-Y-N at Megan Kelly dot com.
00:36:00.000 You can also pass along tips on the baby Lisa story to the Kansas City Police Department or encourage them to get active on this case.
00:36:10.000 That would be very helpful.
00:36:12.000 Reach out at KCCrimestoppers dot com.
00:36:15.000 KCCrimestoppers dot com or call them at 816-474-TIPS.
00:36:22.000 T-I-P-S. 1.00
00:36:23.000 T-I-P-S. 1.00
00:36:24.000 That's 816-474-8477.
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