In October of 2011, Baby Lisa vanished from her crib in the middle of the night in Kansas City, Missouri. Her parents, Jeremy and Deborah Irwin, have been searching for answers for almost 13 years, but no one has come forward with any clues as to what happened to their daughter.
00:08:18.000If we think that there might have been a criminal drug element involved in this, and you guys have been out there investigating this for all this time, you know, pretty publicly,
00:08:30.000is there any fear on your part about your safety?
00:08:53.000Yeah, I mean, we, we did for a long, long time.
00:08:56.000And I mean, most of the stuff that we've gotten is stories that people have heard from other people.
00:09:03.000So it's a lot of it's third person stories.
00:09:06.000And I think there's real merit in a group of individuals that operate in that area that get rid of kids and illegally adopt or what, however you want to phrase it, but take in children that they're not supposed to have and redistribute them.
00:09:24.000So that's that's definitely going on up here. And at least at the time when I was talking with the investigators about it, they laughed in my face about it.
00:09:37.000So other storylines that have circulated amongst the locals involve Deborah interacting with the drug underworld, possible urban myths with no proof, including one that baby Lisa was handed off to pay a drug debt.
00:09:51.000Was there anything that you looking back may have done to bring any of that cast of characters into your life?
00:09:57.000You know, certainly, certainly not us, but we had people nearby that were into that lifestyle.
00:10:06.000And you and Deborah never went there, scored drugs, called for anything from anybody connected to that place?
00:10:14.000Oh, no, no, never. Well, not a percent.
00:10:16.000Did they ever accuse you or Jeremy of being on drugs or having a connection to this house?
00:10:24.000No, because we offered samples of our hair so they can test hair and find out anything and everything you've done.
00:10:30.000Some drugs, including methamphetamine, can be detected this way.
00:10:33.000And so they were able to tell that I was telling the truth about that, that as far as that, if there was a connection and that was it, that's Nolan Lloyd.
00:11:29.000Yeah, because I'm sure you've heard that some people theorize you or Jeremy had a connection to this drug den and brought this cast of nefarious characters into your life and one of them took her.
00:11:42.000But those people should ask the cops about the DNA analysis on our hair and the drug test analysis on our hair.
00:11:49.000It's not there for a reason because it doesn't exist.
00:11:55.000Reporter Jim Spellman covered the case for weeks after the story broke.
00:11:59.000I have seen not one bit of information to indicate that Deborah Bradley, Jeremy Irwin, or anybody in their family was involved in some sort of drug thing.
00:12:10.000And I'll tell you, Megan, I'm a drug addict in recovery.
00:12:13.000I've been clean for 21 years now and I'm pretty good at figuring out drug addicts.
00:12:19.000The idea that Deborah Bradley or Jeremy Irwin were some sort of drug addicts in deep to dealers or something like that is ridiculous.
00:12:27.000I put, you know, as close to certainty that that is not the case as I can come not, you know, not blood testing people.
00:12:37.000And now you are going to hear the absolute worst, darkest versions.
00:12:41.000Again, these are most likely urban myths.
00:12:44.000We just don't know about what may have happened to Lisa.
00:12:48.000And we do need to warn you, they come with awful, grisly details.
00:12:55.000And this is what really breaks my heart about this whole thing is the one consistent narrative that we have found in this story is that Lisa is no longer with us.
00:13:05.000What you're saying is you've talked to people who think they know what happened and who say the baby was killed.
00:13:13.000We had someone tell us that Lisa is in the bottom of Smithville Lake and they put her body in a duffel bag and made sure that the blocks weighed more than she did.
00:13:25.000So there was no chance of her body coming up.
00:13:28.000Those are the kind of things that we've, that we've heard about this.
00:13:33.000Cindy Lorette, Deborah's aunt, heard something even darker.
00:13:37.000Somebody had Lisa and they got scared because the media, it became such a big deal.
00:13:44.000That person got scared and he chopped Lisa up.
00:13:50.000And one of the people that was in the house told me this story that she was brought to the house and they were at the edge, the end of the bed and she was crying.
00:14:02.000And they said to get the fucking baby out of the house.
00:14:13.000We managed to get our hands on police documents with equally dark testimonials.
00:14:18.000These are supplemental interview reports that police do not make public.
00:14:23.000They reflect interviews with two different men who claim to know something about the baby Lisa case.
00:14:29.000We have confirmed the case file numbers on these reports and we've spoken with both men, Chad Huber and the second man interviewed who asked us not to use his name.
00:14:41.000They confirmed their conversations with Kansas City police officer Michael Wells, the very same name that appears in these documents.
00:14:49.000It appears that Officer Wells was investigating a car theft ring, among other things.
00:14:54.000We discussed these police interviews with co-authors Missy Rasmussen and Jackie Heller.
00:15:00.000These are follow up interviews with people who have been charged with unrelated, you know, petty crimes, theft crimes and so on just a few months after baby Lisa disappeared.
00:15:08.000And this is a police interview with someone named Chad Huber.
00:15:43.000According to the interviews, Chad Huber, car thief suspect, tells cops that Cody Allnut, an 18 year old who, according to his father, was hanging out with a bad crowd, wanted to talk to Chad about baby Lisa.
00:15:59.000Chad Huber tells police, presumably based on that conversation with Cody Allnut, that baby Lisa is dead.
00:16:06.000And while the documents do not reveal anything about how, Chad Huber says several people are involved.
00:16:13.000Dane Greathouse, the same guy who allegedly had the phone, called by the Irwin's stolen cell phone the night Lisa went missing, was paid to move Lisa's deceased body, says Huber, from one grave site to another.
00:16:45.000And where would this guy possibly get 15 grand?
00:16:48.000What's more, according to a 2012 police interview, Huber tells cops that Matt Shaver, the owner of that house in which Megan Wright was doing drugs on the night Lisa went missing, had pictures, pictures the cops might want to see.
00:17:04.000First, can I just ask you for your reaction to that excerpt?
00:18:35.000Dane Greathouse did speak with us, telling us he was questioned by police.
00:18:40.000He told us he knew who Boris Dubinsky was, but did not actually know the man.
00:18:46.000He also said he never moved anything, nor was he paid anything.
00:18:50.000We found him living at home with his mother where he was participating in drug court, an alternative to jail that offers treatment and education.
00:18:58.000Dane followed up with a text that read in part, I'm glad you guys came over and talked.
00:19:03.000Honestly, I just hope this can bring light to the case.
00:20:31.000He was a carpet layer, best I remember.
00:20:36.000So he was always very active, hardworking kind of guy, trying to support his family.
00:20:42.000When I moved in there, they were trying not to lose their house.
00:20:47.000So I was trying to help them get things cleaned up, kind of get everything, move people out, make it a more family appropriate environment for him and his wife and their kids.
00:22:58.000If it were me and someone told me that someone told them they saw they know that a baby was murdered, I would even three, you know, three degrees removed.
00:23:17.000But it is really difficult to get any closer than, say, two degrees.
00:23:23.000You know, it should be easier for police.
00:23:26.000Police have all sorts of investigatory abilities and powers that we don't have to figure out who was where, when and what the phone records of that person show and what their actions were.
00:23:37.000It just lacks the person, the right person to come in and be like, we're finally going to do what needs to be done for Lisa.
00:23:45.000Reporter Jim Spellman, who covered the case extensively, has a different view.
00:23:49.000Every indication that I got is that the Kansas City police and the FBI were conducting a very vigorous and thorough investigation.
00:23:58.000Every time that I would uncover some new element or another reporter would uncover some new thing, the police had already been there generally a couple of weeks before.
00:24:08.000And we saw lots of evidence that they were thoroughly tracking down people's alibis, that they were, you know, searching electronically, that they were searching surveillance cameras.
00:24:21.000That would have been an asset for the family. And the family ended up treating them like they were the enemy.
00:24:26.000Hmm. So to those who think, oh, the Kansas City police botched this, you know, they just they failed to investigate properly.
00:24:33.000We would have found her if we had a more robust police department on the case.
00:24:38.000You don't agree with that? I don't agree with that.
00:24:40.000I think that they did a very thorough investigation.
00:24:43.000All of the key people that surfaced in the media that surfaced through my reporting had been thoroughly investigated.
00:24:52.000John Jersey Tanko was questioned by the police at the time.
00:24:56.000He denies any involvement and the case remains open.
00:24:59.000Did the FBI ever tell you, Megan, that you were cleared?
00:25:03.000I realize you only had that one six hour meeting. Did they ever or the Kansas City PD?
00:26:13.000Now we have the chance to get better on our own and be better for our family and ourselves.
00:26:20.000You know, the the main concern for me outside second to Lisa has always been the boys and making sure that they have some semblance of a normal life, even with this going on.
00:26:35.000And I feel that we have at least succeeded in that.
00:26:39.000And you still notwithstanding the fact that you're separated from from Deborah, you still believe in her.
00:26:44.000You still it hasn't caused you to doubt her.
00:26:50.000I mean, we're talking about my daughter here and we're talking about the her mother.
00:26:56.000So it's the same thing I've been saying for years.
00:26:59.000You know, if you're going to tell me that Deborah did it, you better tell me what it is and you better tell me a story associated with it.
00:27:08.000Other than that, I've heard it all and you can't tell me nothing new.
00:27:12.000I think that God put us together because he knew we would be able to survive long enough to be there for each other in positive ways.
00:27:23.000And we may not be together now, but I still trust him and I will always love him because he has my kids.
00:27:33.000You look at the joy that you get from raising two boys and having them go out into the world and they're awesome young men and they're they're going to kill it.
00:27:44.000And they have their own life paths and everything's starting to work out for them.
00:27:48.000And but as a man, I was robbed my portion of that with my daughter.
00:27:54.000You know, I hope one day that tomorrow or a year from now or whatever.
00:27:59.000I hope that Lisa's found and that she comes home and we can start over and at 13 years old or 18 years old or however old she is.
00:28:10.000But it would be nice to start that relationship in which I haven't been able to have this whole time.
00:28:18.000What if all it takes is just the one person to watch what we're doing now?
00:28:25.000And they like, oh, this kid looks familiar.
00:29:54.000Do you ever wonder whether it would be easier if you knew, you know, one way or the other, what had happened?
00:30:01.000If just, even if the outcome were, were bad, you know, that you had a confirmation that she had passed, would that somehow be easier?
00:30:09.000Um, well, I think if that's my two options, if I would, were to know that something bad happened or to never know, then I'll just stay never knowing, I guess.
00:30:51.000But their faith in Lisa and themselves kept them together for years.
00:30:56.000You know, I know people in a lot higher tax brackets than them, you know, a lot higher education than them that, you know, would have crumbled.
00:32:31.000I spoke to her about a year and a half ago.
00:32:34.000And when I hung up, I thought, my goodness, the frustration that she's feeling is going to eat her alive.
00:32:43.000And and, you know, I don't want to trivialize it in this comparison.
00:32:48.000But, you know, think for a moment, you're at your house and you all said you're looking for your car keys and you can't find them and how quickly you become frustrated.
00:32:57.000And you look and you start, you know, you know, hollering at people and, you know, help me find my keys and, you know, whatever.
00:33:04.000Think if that frustration went on for 12 years.
00:33:08.000How would you how would you, you know, how big would that build that you're looking for this thing that you can't find?
00:33:16.000That leads me back to these police reports that you guys have seen, these interview reports that we managed to get our hands on.
00:33:22.000And they talk about how these alleged petty criminals around this case allegedly again, this very much could be crooks trying to lower their sentences and give police fake little gold nuggets.
00:33:38.000But they talk about having seen pictures of a grave site, pictures of a mound of dirt.
00:33:44.000Somebody allegedly brought the baby in a black garbage bag and buried it like there's some of that out there.
00:33:52.000I mean, it's possible that she did the same thing, that that's that's all made up, but that she did actually bring the baby out there and that the baby was buried.
00:34:00.000And this same Keystone cop force just didn't find it.
00:34:04.000So the first thing that comes to my mind, Megan, is that if I've committed a crime as heinous as this this particular crime, I find it hard to believe I'd be running around telling people that we, you know, we've done this and so forth.
00:34:22.000And, you know, while one person might do it, I think if it were a group effort, that one person would be in hot water pretty quickly with the rest of the team, so to speak.
00:34:35.000You know, even if they were under the influence of drugs the next morning, they would probably be saying to themselves, we need to put a, you know, put a lid on this.
00:34:43.000The greatest thing I think Deborah's got in her favor.
00:34:46.000You tell me if I'm wrong, Bill, is Phil Houston.
00:34:55.000I just can't get past the fact that the human lie detector, CIA, 25 years, breaking terrorists, breaking double agents, seeing the deception where none, no one else could, that that guy got fooled by Deborah Bradley.
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