The Megyn Kelly Show - American Stories, with Bari Weiss, J.D. Vance, and Mike Rowe ｜ Ep. 123

00:00:00.000 beat beat beat boxing actually has hidden health benefits it can help strengthen

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00:00:30.000 when i found out my friend got a great deal on a wool coat from winners i started wondering is every

00:00:36.360 fabulous item i see from winners like that woman over there with the designer jeans are those from 1.00

00:00:42.180 winners or those beautiful gold earrings did she pay full price or that leather tote or that cashmere 0.96

00:00:48.320 sweater or those knee-high boots that dress that jacket those shoes is anyone paying full price for

00:00:54.840 anything stop wondering start winning winners find fabulous for less welcome to the megan kelly show

00:01:02.440 your home for open honest and provocative conversations

00:01:06.320 hey everyone i'm megan kelly welcome to the megan kelly show and happy independence day america

00:01:18.200 here we go into another july 4th weekend and i hope you're looking forward to it as much as i am

00:01:23.880 i feel like we need to celebrate america especially right now right with all the america bashing going

00:01:30.920 on those of us who love our country my anecdotal experience has been that more and more people are

00:01:36.040 having big fourth of july parties making a point to celebrate what we stand for here in this country

00:01:41.500 people are starting to fight back against the america bashers who don't get it or just are willfully

00:01:46.920 blind to it to the magic of what we have here and uh i am one of them we're we're actually having a big

00:01:53.760 big bash and i can't wait and i do believe that the majority of people in this country understand

00:01:59.320 how lucky we are to live here to have been born here you know what a what a fortunate circumstance

00:02:03.760 of our birth to have wound up of all the places in the world here where liberty matters where freedom

00:02:11.480 freedom is an ideal that's written right into the founding documents of our country so today we have

00:02:19.420 an interesting show for you we've got um we've chosen sort of a three of our favorite stories and

00:02:25.500 we're calling these american stories that relate to our country and i think you're gonna love you i

00:02:29.660 know you're gonna love all these guests and they're you know sort of gonna give you a feel for where we

00:02:33.900 are right now as a country um it being july 4th weekend it's basically three of our favorites out of our

00:02:39.140 120 plus episodes and a bonus for you you're actually going to get to meet our team too all

00:02:46.780 of those writing nice letters about canadian debbie you're going to get to hear from her directly today

00:02:52.080 uh along with the rest of our team who i'll introduce to you shortly but before we get to

00:02:57.480 our guests i just want to i just want to read you this okay we're in preparation for our fourth of

00:03:02.800 july party um we're putting together a reading of the declaration of independence i recommend you do the

00:03:07.980 same um i'm actually thinking about amazon priming some like colonial wigs i don't know i'll get back

00:03:16.440 to you on whether that happens but anyway um we're gonna have a reading of part of the declaration of

00:03:21.980 independence i mean they really go on about how bad the king is that's kind of outdated um but i just

00:03:26.440 want to read you the very very beginning because it's so great to go back and read these things isn't

00:03:30.660 it like the gettysburg address um the preamble to the constitution the declaration so this is what

00:03:36.500 this is what july 4th 1776 was all about the declaration of the independence of the united

00:03:42.800 states of america and it was game on to fight for it at that point and here it is when in the course

00:03:48.760 of human events it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected

00:03:54.820 them with another and to assume among the powers of the earth the separate and equal station

00:04:00.480 to which the laws of nature and of nature's god entitle them a decent respect to the opinions

00:04:06.800 of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation

00:04:12.280 and here we go we hold these truths to be self-evident that all men are created equal that they are endowed

00:04:20.780 by their creator with certain unalienable rights that among these are life liberty and the pursuit of

00:04:27.940 happiness that to secure these rights governments are instituted among men deriving their just powers

00:04:35.540 from the consent of the governed that whenever any form of government becomes destructive of these ends

00:04:41.500 it is the right of the people to alter or to abolish it and to institute new government and on and on it

00:04:48.220 goes from there just so beautiful no matter how many times you read it and i was reading up you know

00:04:53.040 it's like thomas jefferson was the chief architect and he and john adams were at each other's throats

00:04:59.040 for a long time when they were running for office i mean they sort of helped found the country and then

00:05:04.420 went into partisan politics against one another and then when they were much older and getting close to

00:05:10.780 death they started a series of correspondence with one another and managed to reconnect and managed to

00:05:17.500 remember their brotherhood as founders of this extraordinary experiment called america

00:05:23.380 and people who fought for a cause that would change the course of billions would change the course of

00:05:31.100 life for billions of people on this earth think about it right these two guys and do you know you may

00:05:37.960 remember this do you know they they died on july 4th the july 4th 50 years after 1776 july 4th i mean

00:05:48.660 it's just it's pretty extraordinary you want to feel good about the country go back and read some of

00:05:53.300 these documents go back and and read some of the letters these two guys wrote back and forth and it'll

00:05:57.980 humble you as a human being and before you do all that take a listen to this show and some of our

00:06:04.560 american stories there's a common through line to the three sections that we've chosen to highlight

00:06:09.520 for you today from three perceptive brilliant americans truly that is not an overstatement

00:06:15.440 these are important americans in the truest sense mike rowe barry weiss and jd vance they all can see the

00:06:22.840 challenge that we're in in this country right now they can all see the flaws of america of course but

00:06:27.820 they have solutions and it comes from believing that america is and americans are at the core

00:06:34.280 good special and worth saving we're going to start with mike rowe we talked to him back in

00:06:42.480 december for an interview that aired on new year's day of this year and everybody knows this guy from

00:06:46.680 dirty jobs from so many great shows highlighting the sort of americans that don't usually get

00:06:51.660 highlighted on tv shows it's why he's been so successful but mike does not often get into politics

00:06:56.860 or policy so our exchange was pretty extraordinary and here we're going to talk about safety about

00:07:03.540 patriotism about socialism about curiosity and about americans who rightfully feel as mike says

00:07:10.860 like liberties and livelihoods are being transformed under their very feet that's coming up but first this

00:07:18.880 we've gotten incredibly risk averse and and risk is not inherently bad risk can lead to great

00:07:32.140 reward sometimes you can fall flat on your face sometimes you can break the arm but in my experience

00:07:37.780 usually succeed or fail you emerge the better person for having taken it if safety were truly first

00:07:44.400 if safety were truly first what company would be in business you know if safety were truly first

00:07:53.460 our our cars would be made of rubber they would not exceed exceed speeds of 15 miles an hour we would

00:07:59.920 all wear helmets and we would eliminate left-hand turns if you did that liquor stores no more liquor

00:08:06.840 stores look the things we could do to save millions of lives every year are manifold we don't do those

00:08:16.880 things because we've made a calculation and we've decided that the risk and by the way it's not even a risk

00:08:25.300 we've decided from an actuarial standpoint that the certainty of 35 000 automotive deaths in the coming

00:08:32.020 year the certainty of that is a fair trade for the ability to come and go as we like and drive our

00:08:39.740 vehicles at the posted speeds and so forth it's it's a bargain that we made 690 000 people died last year

00:08:48.760 of heart disease we could stop a lot of that by dramatically changing the types of foods we sell

00:08:54.440 and implementing a mandatory exercise program we're not going to do that because 690 000 deaths is a fair

00:09:01.760 trade for the freedom to live the way we want to do now people don't like to say that out loud

00:09:07.060 but how else can you conclude when you look at the reality of the data 10 million people died of cancer

00:09:16.140 last year they're going to die this year 10 million people starved to death you know i read something

00:09:23.940 the other day and i maybe you can verify it but it it seems it seems real it seems in multiple places

00:09:31.140 the cdc has concurred that the number of starvation deaths likely to occur as a result not of the disease

00:09:41.280 but of the lockdowns will be between 80 and 100 million around the world because the logistic

00:09:49.160 chain has been destroyed because trucks can't get where they need to go with the food this is what

00:09:55.640 the red cross is saying this is what a lot of organizations are saying we just have no real

00:10:02.600 understanding of the unintended consequences on a global level of shutting down the most powerful

00:10:08.500 country in the world and every other country for that matter it's going to be mind-boggling

00:10:14.100 think about the split in how people are coming down on these harsh shutdowns and it does tend to be

00:10:19.960 you know the media seems 100 behind them um and sort of the liberal elites seem to be the ones shaming

00:10:27.540 others who tend to be more working class more dirty jobs kind of people who say i'll take the risk i want 1.00

00:10:34.960 to put food on my table i'll i'll do what i need to do to protect myself and my family but let me work

00:10:40.740 let me work it's not the media people who are going to lose their jobs you're not going to lose your anchor

00:10:44.780 job on cnn because there's a shutdown of bars and restaurants and other industries as you point out

00:10:50.960 that are deemed non-essential and um like it to me it seems it does seem like a class issue and i you know

00:10:58.940 i think the dirty jobs are the noble jobs where you really do get your hands dirty and you're you're in

00:11:07.200 the street all day and you don't mind it and you're you have a certain mentality of my life may be risky

00:11:13.520 and it may be dirty and that's okay and and sometimes you get hurt sometimes not the perfect

00:11:20.960 result happens sometimes it isn't perfectly equal back to your other point yeah and that's the way america

00:11:26.600 is and used to be i don't know mike i i think maybe you're right maybe they've overstepped to the

00:11:33.360 point where there's going to be an uprising and and i do think the political messaging is playing into

00:11:38.420 this because that same group of people many of whom voted for donald trump has been told for four years

00:11:44.980 that they're awful that they are horrible that they because they support this guy who seemed to reach

00:11:52.460 out to them and say i'll fight for you not only are they just you know dumb and stupid and not worthy 0.92

00:11:58.040 of celebrating but they're racist they're sexist they're xenophobic god it's the old look this is a

00:12:06.360 big generalization but i do find some some truth in it by and large my my friends on the right will

00:12:13.600 look at my friends on the left and conclude that they're mistaken and my friends on the left will look

00:12:19.360 at my friends on the right and conclude that they are evil and there's a big difference between being

00:12:26.260 wrong and wicked and so that is an unfortunate way to set the table and the word deplorable was an

00:12:35.320 amazing choice to make and one of the truest things i think that was ever said maybe not intentionally i'm

00:12:41.980 sure she'd like to have that one back but man that set the table and when hillary clinton called half 1.00

00:12:49.820 the country deplorable half the country listened and and they believed her and so you know ever since

00:12:57.920 i mean that was one of many but that was certainly a moment where people looked around and said wow

00:13:03.260 there's a line there's a line in the country and it's being drawn as we speak am i deplorable i'm not

00:13:11.980 you know people i mean i know a lot of people who ask themselves that question so right you know

00:13:18.300 it's a it's a heck of a thing and do you think we're do you think we're we're losing because i

00:13:24.720 think after trump was elected people started to see that you know i think some of my liberal friends

00:13:29.960 started to see okay there there we seem to be getting a message from you know the work working

00:13:35.100 class workers of america that we need to pay some attention to them that not every policy can be

00:13:40.680 to please the chamber of commerce right and that was a republican problem but i think sort of the

00:13:45.760 elite started to say okay let's listen but now now just people are angry and they seem to be i don't

00:13:53.200 know when they they're looking at these trump voters and the white working class and the black working

00:13:56.680 class they seem to be saying something very different yeah i think it has to do with i don't

00:14:01.400 know it's just like last week i interviewed jd vance and we were talking about his the movie based on his

00:14:07.120 book hillbilly elegy that's come out it's getting killed killed in the reviews which was completely

00:14:11.300 predictable but i read those reviews and i think the movie was great and i think you know what it's

00:14:18.400 okay to it's okay to go after deplorables again and it's and it's not okay to humanize them as he does

00:14:23.760 look megan it's it's that's just straight up hubris you know i've spent the last nine months

00:14:30.960 working from home and and prospering and i know that and i know a lot of people

00:14:37.120 haven't so therefore and for no other reason i can't mouth off about a whole lot of things that

00:14:44.740 i might have an opinion on because i've been able to work you know the cnn and the fox news anchors have

00:14:51.420 been able to work and yet they have opinions and they and they just can't help but share them

00:14:57.360 and so it's it's it's appalling to me the lack of self-awareness among so many people who have a

00:15:04.800 platform and look i've been accused of it too i suppose i'm guilty from time to time but by and

00:15:09.180 large you know i try to stay in my lane and i try not to get over my skis with all this but

00:15:14.620 do you remember when the smoking thing really tipped when when when public sentiment really really

00:15:24.420 once and for all and forever turned against the cigarette industry i i think it was around the

00:15:34.980 issue of secondhand smoke i i think when people realized that it wasn't their decision to smoke

00:15:45.460 was not necessarily the proximate cause of them getting smoke into their lungs and when that happened

00:15:53.220 right secondhand smoke became a thing and it became a deadly thing part of what's going on right

00:15:59.140 now i think is that our breath has been deemed to be secondhand smoke the mask argument is no longer

00:16:10.140 about whether or not i get to choose to assume a certain level of risk vis-a-vis my decision to wear

00:16:18.160 or not wear a mask it's oh you selfish bastard you're not wearing a mask therefore you're filling 0.95

00:16:24.640 the air with your own toxic breath and you're going to kill grandma um and that you know i understand 0.90

00:16:33.380 that argument it's the exact same argument i heard persuasively made around why cigarettes

00:16:40.960 ought to be outlawed unfortunately we're not talking about smoke we're talking about

00:16:48.160 breath and we're talking about the fact that millions of viruses exist in a drop of seawater

00:16:54.680 and the air is filled with things the the world is filled with things that can kill us you know we

00:17:02.180 live in a desperately dangerous place and nobody's getting out of it alive you know but this new thing

00:17:09.300 this new thing has come along and the idea that somebody can breathe on us and infect us with a

00:17:15.360 disease that has a 99 survival rate if you happen to be under 70 has for some reason petrified us to

00:17:22.800 the point where we're simply not thinking rationally and um you know sometimes things just have to go

00:17:34.620 splat before they get better and i don't know what that means in this case but we've just seen a lot of

00:17:41.800 rioting we've seen a lot of protesting and i understand why it happened we could see that again

00:17:50.060 times 10 if if this goes too far and people well and truly believe their liberties and their

00:17:59.200 livelihoods and their country is being transformed under their feet i'm fascinated and and a little

00:18:09.440 frightened by what could happen okay let's talk about freedom for a minute there um there was a

00:18:16.240 poll that recently came out that said it was talking to young people um as we've seen a lot

00:18:23.080 with young people the the rise in support for socialism is spiking this this is actually not

00:18:28.840 particularly new a lot of a lot of young people when they go to these universities and they get told

00:18:32.320 about how wonderful the communist manifesto is they suddenly say oh it's a good idea i'm going to be a

00:18:36.720 marxist sadly that's the truth but then they tend to grow out of it but anyway um the other the

00:18:42.920 other stat that jumped out at me from this survey was that only 44 see the flag is representing

00:18:47.540 freedom i mean that to me is nuts and a little scary like the just the erosion of patriotism and love

00:18:55.840 for the country what do you think i think that uh i think that's symptomatic of something you know i

00:19:04.540 don't think it's a problem in and of itself not to minimize it but i just think there's something

00:19:09.800 under it you know and i guess maybe it's maybe it's curiosity maybe we're less curious

00:19:19.120 than we used to be you know i mean and maybe i'm just saying that because i work for the discovery

00:19:26.620 channel and satisfying curiosity is their mandate and so i i tend to look at everything through the

00:19:32.700 lens of you're either interested in it curious about it or persuasive you know but you can't be

00:19:39.860 persuasive until you're informed and you can't be informed unless you're curious and if you think

00:19:45.500 socialism is a good idea well then persuade me and if you can't persuade me it's because you don't

00:19:55.100 know anything and if you don't know anything it's because you're not curious enough to go around the

00:20:00.060 world or read and and and make make a persuasive case for socialism do that i i say that every day

00:20:09.560 to people who who take that view i like to think my mind is open enough to be persuaded

00:20:14.860 it's just that i can't find a single example in the history of the whole world where socialism has

00:20:20.480 worked and no i don't want to hear about denmark we're sweden that's not socialism that's that's a

00:20:27.780 kind of high tax capitalism um i've just i'm standing by you know i'm standing by to look at the study

00:20:39.800 and to and to hear a case for it and it can't just be well capitalism bad or look at look at the bad

00:20:47.500 things that happen in a cap capitalism is is not perfect in fact there's a lot wrong with it i've

00:20:54.540 just looked around and for the life of me i can't find a better plan i can't i can't find a i can't

00:21:01.080 imagine of a single thing in the history of the world that has elevated more desperate people up from

00:21:07.420 poverty than capitalism it's it's one of the great success stories of all time and conversely

00:21:17.120 socialism has got to be one of the greatest and most impressive failures of all time

00:21:22.360 the guy from whole foods just wrote a terrific book john uh what's his name is it john mckay john uh

00:21:30.180 yeah mackie mackie right conscious capitalism was his first when he wrote something called conscious

00:21:36.880 of leadership i think is his second one but you know he makes this point you know the evidence

00:21:43.880 demands a verdict and there is no shortage of evidence to make a case for capitalism

00:21:49.860 uh or a case against socialism or you could say it the other way too but you have to look at the evidence

00:21:56.760 and it's to me it's just it's just overwhelming we're not a perfect country we don't have a perfect

00:22:06.520 system the constitution is not a perfect document the flag has evolved just as surely as the bill of

00:22:14.980 rights has it's changed its complexion is different and so forth we're we're a work in progress but

00:22:21.920 to affirmatively look at the iconography um the symbols of our country and to then just lean back

00:22:31.800 and evaluate the decisions made by our ancestors and look at them through the lens of modern sensibility

00:22:39.520 that is the height of arrogance in my view and the very definition of an incurious mind

00:22:47.400 it's it's it's it's a it's a statue to laziness is what it is this is the thing for me the biggest

00:22:57.140 difference and again i i keep qualifying this in a stupid way you know i have many liberal friends

00:23:03.840 i really do my best friends are are very liberal and just the other night we were sitting around

00:23:10.540 socially distanced naturally drinking beer in between the moments where we lowered and raised our mask

00:23:16.320 and you know i said to a group of my friends it's like it's amazing what we agree on in fact i can't

00:23:25.880 think of really a single big issue whose outcome we we wouldn't all like to see it's just a matter of

00:23:35.800 process and in a general way if i'm going to say something critical to you i would say that you're

00:23:42.140 impatient in the same way the millennials are that we talked about before you look for shortcuts a high 0.97

00:23:48.800 minimum wage is a shortcut uh rent control is a shortcut now we'd both like to see people paid

00:23:57.620 fairly none of none of us want to see people evicted from their homes but if you look at the

00:24:04.320 policies that are either popular or not popular then i think you can in a very general way say well

00:24:10.820 that's a shortcut or it isn't um i think as i understand it socialism is a shortcut capitalism

00:24:20.480 is not and capitalism is messy because there's competition and people are going to fail good

00:24:27.600 people are going to fall short you know uh and so again it's well-intended people can disagree

00:24:35.960 over the way to get to a place you know but the place that we're all trying to get to and i take

00:24:43.660 some hope in this is by and large the same so what are we arguing over really it's process

00:24:53.000 you know two two points on that one i i agree with everything you said and i also think you could

00:24:59.820 expand it to what's happening right now the discussion we're happening in the country we're having in the

00:25:04.760 country over race i think most people want the same thing equality love support non-judgment

00:25:10.600 opportunity uh but there are real disagreements i think in particular between republicans and

00:25:16.120 democrats on how we get there how do we get there right you can just go back to the disputes we used

00:25:20.680 to have over affirmative action now it's morphed into disputes about you know should you be doing

00:25:25.860 what robin d'angelo wants you to do or should you be doing what professor glenn lowry of brown

00:25:29.680 university wants you to do but everybody wants equality and opportunity and and love and support

00:25:35.100 you know it's just but what we do in today's day and age is demonize anybody who doesn't see the root

00:25:40.080 there the same way we do and well and yeah go ahead uh look to me the entire race thing and i'm gonna

00:25:49.920 really oversimplify this um but isn't the goal of the entire conversation to become a colorblind society

00:26:03.440 i mean well it used to be it seems like ultimately the best world we could hope to live in would be a

00:26:12.300 world where people look around and truly do not give a tinker's damn what color your skin is so 0.74

00:26:22.640 it's a great example because every thoughtful person i know loves that world we don't you know we imagine

00:26:32.420 a world where we don't see color but everything we seem to do in order to get to that place

00:26:40.620 is accentuate color and so you know it it's just a fundamental tautology i think i mean how can you

00:26:51.600 how can you correct a problem with affirmative action for instance you know how can you hope

00:27:01.260 that the ultimate end result of that policy is going to get us to a colorblind place when the very

00:27:09.580 definition of that policy precludes certain people from participating in it well you know the answer

00:27:17.120 on these and on this general argument is only white people would say such a thing which isn't true of

00:27:23.820 course you know many black intellectuals are saying exactly the same thing but it's your white privilege

00:27:29.240 that makes you say let's not make color a thing you know these activists white and black alike

00:27:36.160 these activists would say um it is an issue because america is systemically racist and we have no

00:27:43.200 no choice but to acknowledge that and work past that and i would buy that criticism because i just made it to

00:27:52.100 you a half hour ago when i talked about you know the hypocrites in the media who who who can't see their own

00:28:01.260 place of privilege and therefore hold forth with just delightful impunity um what i'm saying here is

00:28:09.820 that okay if you want to take everything i just said and say well that's easy for you to say you rich

00:28:16.040 white guy in the middle of your life all right i'll i'll accept for the purposes of the argument being

00:28:24.280 dismissed based on those things i can't control but then what are you going to say to thomas

00:28:30.380 soul what are you going to say to tim scott what are you going to say to candace owens what are you

00:28:37.920 going to say to all of the black people who said the same thing i said well you're going to call him uncle

00:28:44.060 toms you're going to criticize anything you don't agree with not based on the substance of the observation

00:28:56.180 but on the color of the observer which is the precise thing you're complaining about in the first place

00:29:06.500 and so if you can't see that you know and then then i'd go back to my earlier point and say you're not

00:29:16.280 a genuinely curious person you're you're something else you're a you're an advocate and that's okay too

00:29:25.840 you know the world needs advocates but it's important to know when you're being sold something

00:29:31.020 and when you're going on an exploration these people they're not exploring the kind of society

00:29:39.920 that that i would like to live in a colorblind society they're exploring ways to gin up conflict 0.80

00:29:48.400 to keep their thumb on the scale and keep us more and more divided you know oh going back to something

00:29:57.100 you said about well discovery and exploring and that really is how you've spent your life but you

00:30:03.260 were saying maybe it's because you're you work for the discovery channel that you have a different view

00:30:08.800 of patriotism america capitalism all these things i think it's also because you spend a lot of time

00:30:15.760 with veterans and i do think you tend to love the country and see the flag differently if you spend a lot

00:30:23.880 of time with veterans how do you not you know i mean one percent of the population wears a uniform

00:30:30.880 every single freedom that we enjoy has been paid for in blood people roll their eyes when i say that

00:30:37.720 because it sounds like a talking point off of a monument but it's true every single thing we have

00:30:43.640 was paid for by somebody who either volunteered or answered the draft or put on the uniform and paid the

00:30:50.400 ultimate price you're either impressed by that or you're not if you're not okay but jesus what's it

00:30:57.920 take to impress you incidentally one and a half percent of our country are farmers one and a half percent

00:31:04.960 feed 330 million people three times a day you're either impressed by that or you're not if you're not

00:31:12.260 okay but jesus what's it take you know our skilled workforce is a relatively small percentage of our

00:31:20.140 country but when you flick on the switch and the light comes on and flush the toilet and the poop goes

00:31:26.760 away you know these are miracles these are modern miracles that we all take for granted and you're

00:31:32.600 either impressed by that or you're not so dirty jobs and somebody's got to do it and returning the

00:31:40.120 favor and the way i heard it every show i've ever worked on is essentially the same show i just

00:31:44.640 changed the title every couple of years and their their goals are all interchangeable i my job i think

00:31:54.520 to the extent i have one is to tap the country on the shoulder every so often and say hey get a load of

00:31:59.120 him get a load of her look at what's going on over here so on returning the favor you know i get to do

00:32:05.820 that a lot and we've done 100 episodes and 14 or 15 have been based on veterans roughly the same number

00:32:14.460 have been based on farmers and i didn't realize it when i was doing it but when i look back on it

00:32:20.820 i i think that i think that in a really general way aside from our country's uh fungible ever-changing

00:32:29.160 definition of gratitude and if we're not a grateful people and i say this you know on a on a micro and

00:32:49.080 a macro level if we're not fundamentally grateful for what we have then we're essentially rolling out

00:32:56.420 the red carpet to a long list of feelings that that we're not going to enjoy you know i mean it's it's

00:33:03.280 hard to be angry when you're fundamentally grateful it's hard to be bitter it's hard to be suspicious

00:33:09.400 and resentful it's hard to be envious when you're fundamentally grateful for what you have but it just

00:33:15.860 seems like because we're not as curious as we once were we don't have an understanding of history

00:33:22.760 the way we should and so we look around in relative terms and we don't see our country for

00:33:30.260 the miracle that it is we don't see our form of government for the singularly remarkable construct

00:33:37.180 that it is instead we look at mount rushmore and go probably be prettier without all those

00:33:44.480 slave owners up there you know it's an amazing thing this ability to judge our ancestors based on 0.93

00:33:56.520 what we know to be true today can you imagine imagine 150 years from now whose statues are going to be

00:34:06.780 pulled down that will depend entirely on how woke and how enlightened that generation is i mean 150 years

00:34:17.440 from now what will the topic be that most mirrors the way we feel about slavery today i don't know anybody

00:34:29.240 who doesn't look back at slavery and go oh my god it's it's the human stain it's our great sin

00:34:36.240 what a terrible thing what a demonstrably undeniably terrible thing that was what do you think 150

00:34:44.000 years from now that generation will be saying the same thing about could it be eating meat could it be

00:34:52.580 abortion capital punishment anything that's in the headlines right now that seems controversial is

00:35:00.600 going to be completely worked out 150 years from now assuming we make it that long including the environment

00:35:06.240 and when that generation looks back at us how harshly how harshly will they judge us you know if they

00:35:16.700 judge us as harshly as we judge our ancestors then whose statue is safe right who will be left

00:35:27.200 standing it reminds me of the there's a report not long ago about the famous the the famous martin luther king

00:35:35.680 biographer this guy david garrow who um got access to these fbi files from the 1960s studying martin

00:35:44.100 luther king jr and some of what was in there was not good uh suggesting he had affairs with 40 women

00:35:50.560 this is a guy who won a pulitzer prize for his reporting king uh that he stood by as a friend raped a

00:35:55.520 woman was not good stuff yep it's never going to change what martin luther king did for race relations in 0.95

00:36:03.120 this country it's hard it's hard to sum up the character of any man or a woman um by by diminishing 0.93

00:36:12.340 it based on even one terrible thing you know people are complicated and back then when when you know

00:36:19.520 thomas jefferson had slaves sadly so did a lot of other people it just wasn't the same and you're right

00:36:25.620 i think when it comes to even just the way we treat our animals today and you know when you think about

00:36:30.600 what happens with the chickens what happens with the cows and so on makes it hard but right now we're

00:36:35.780 not there doesn't make everybody who has a hamburger a bad person it's so delightfully glib and easy

00:36:41.360 that's all i'm saying you know the the it's the laziness that allows us to take our standards and

00:36:50.120 apply them to alexander the great or george washington or william the conqueror or sally hemmings

00:36:57.060 or it you know and william winston churchill of course of course you know if if you can't separate

00:37:04.300 look martin luther king when he talked about the the content of character that idea deserves to be

00:37:14.140 ruminated on and and unpacked um completely separate from the man as as all ideas do because

00:37:26.800 all men are deeply irredeemably flawed who are we kidding we're all pigs we all know it you know

00:37:36.580 we all know it it's just you know if if i see myself as more of a cougar

00:37:44.540 hey not yet give yourself another 10 years you're still a lioness megan oh i like that better okay i'll

00:37:53.360 choose lioness over pig but the point is animals we're animals yes yes i mean look i i do think

00:38:01.040 there's a hierarchy of of species um and i do make value judgments all the time and i and i i can't

00:38:08.880 defend it but i look at dogs differently than i look at chickens um but who knows 150 years from now

00:38:18.040 what the most enlightened among us who knows how they're going to make sense of our inconsistencies

00:38:27.420 our proclivities our flaws our contradictions our hypocrisies

00:38:32.820 this is the part of the show where we're going to talk about some of the interviews you're going

00:38:37.540 to meet a little bit of my team actually all my team who am i kidding um so we're bringing on

00:38:41.860 the cast of characters as follows is steve debbie danny natasha and abby steve's our ep

00:38:47.840 debbie is basically our senior producer she runs our news danny is our booker natasha is our editor

00:38:54.100 she's the one who does all the good recording and slicing and dicing to make me look good at the end

00:38:57.600 and abby you probably knows know by now is my assistant little sister mentor nanny um all all

00:39:04.080 things above so anyway are you guys nervous do you feel nervous uh yeah i'm nervous you know you

00:39:09.060 and steve have the uh upper hand on this obviously i keep saying like at least it's recorded you know

00:39:14.360 if we suck you can cut us out natasha only makes me look good canadian yeah you guys are on your own 0.95

00:39:20.300 just megan all right so i'll kick it off to make life easy for you i thought mike roe he he does have

00:39:28.220 this special gift of having spent his life not just with veterans but with real work working class people

00:39:32.840 so he doesn't have his nose up in the air about them and that's what people love about him

00:39:36.680 i was amazed that listening back to to him he used to work at cnn you know and it was a different

00:39:43.180 era of cnn he was like the after the dirty jobs and then he went did a cnn show that was similar

00:39:47.280 2014 2018 uh he never felt less like cnn than when i when i heard uh you know hearing back to to that

00:39:56.580 interview right they've gone a different direction and i don't know i think he's he's the same kind of

00:40:01.820 guy but they they're they're a shadow of their former selves i can never see them hiring him now

00:40:06.100 right you know the whole interview we really felt like it was one of the most open and honest

00:40:10.580 conversations we ever had you know he wrote like wasn't afraid to get into anything racism classism

00:40:15.800 his blind spots you know like he was willing to like go there with everything you know it's hard

00:40:20.920 to do which is really genuine and uh and then at the end of it you you know i felt like you know

00:40:26.540 we're listening to it again like oh very patriotic like i got to go plant my american flag in the

00:40:32.580 middle of toronto and leave my children go out there and salute it because that's just how he

00:40:39.840 makes you feel mike actually hit on like with his safety last everything safety last and personal

00:40:46.240 responsibility and assuming your own individual risk we live in the dfw area but if you go an hour

00:40:53.320 outside of dfw in any direction it's like an entirely different world no one's wearing masks

00:40:59.180 everyone's doing their own thing and they're perfectly happy and they're all farmers and

00:41:05.300 they just have done this forever and they're not waiting for the government to tell them like when

00:41:10.380 it's time to like do stuff they're just doing it and living their life and that's why i love texas

00:41:15.720 next up is going to be barry weiss she's amazing she's a powerhouse and she's come on the show twice

00:41:25.180 now by no accident so the first time she came on was just after she launched her substack publication

00:41:30.920 and before she became a champion for and board member of a new organization called fair that i'm 0.98

00:41:37.280 also an advisor to the foundation against intolerance and racism and this organization is actually fighting

00:41:43.740 all this racist nonsense that's being shoved down the throats of our children today in our school

00:41:49.000 systems anyway her voice is so necessary in our culture and in our current media landscape and she

00:41:54.780 speaks with openness and independence which is why she was essentially pushed out of the new york

00:41:58.580 times last year right she's like they wanted voices other than their normal far left people

00:42:02.920 they hired barry who was a liberal she's a lesbian none of that was enough you can't be a lesbian and a 1.00

00:42:08.760 liberal and is outspoken person for causes on the left unless you adopt all of their orthodoxy

00:42:14.080 and she hasn't she's she's an independent thinker well that's why she left and in like a barn burner 0.64

00:42:20.820 of a resignation letter and she's a star and here you're going to hear uh just a little bit of

00:42:26.300 how little incentive young americans and particularly those in the media have these days

00:42:32.100 to deviate even slightly from the norm because barry talked to them she talks to a lot of people they

00:42:38.060 they write to her and she's pretty open about what she hears and she's going to talk about how

00:42:42.940 uniquely american it is to have challenging and honest conversations yes everybody who listens to the

00:42:48.620 show knows that and heaven forbid with people with whom you don't necessarily agree um that can be

00:42:55.740 really fulfilling too so listen to barry she's coming up in one minute but first this

00:43:00.040 we talk a lot about the internet and twitter and social but it's like do people understand that

00:43:09.040 we're living in an era in which you cannot make a mistake you cannot make a mistake and everything

00:43:15.920 is captured for all eternity and there's just so little incentive um you know i i spent a lot of

00:43:23.320 time talking to teenagers and college students who you know want to get into public life or want to be

00:43:30.380 journalists or want to be op-ed writers or maybe want to run for office one day and these kids rightly

00:43:37.520 see no incentive to do so and if they do want to um why would they ever uh take any kind of strong

00:43:46.340 opinion why would they stand up for something unpopular that's exactly that's what you wrote in

00:43:51.680 your in your in your resignation letter saying there are it's very clear to the young people there are

00:43:56.000 rules one speak your mind to your own peril two never risk commissioning a story that goes against

00:44:00.720 the narrative three never believe an editor or publisher who urges you to go against the grain

00:44:05.620 oh i mean don't you think it's true i do and it scares me because as i always say the bullies have

00:44:13.640 really won when when they're when they're in your head changing your behavior right like it's never

00:44:19.020 good to be bullied but it's really scary when the bullies turn you into a bully of yourself

00:44:24.880 right and that's what's happening i want to read you two two really short things that summarize

00:44:30.980 the moment i think we're in with regard to this um i get emails every single day from people like

00:44:38.980 this young journalist who wrote me i never thought i'd practice the kind of self-censorship i now do

00:44:45.120 when pitching editors but i've no power to do otherwise for woke skeptical young writers banishment and

00:44:51.020 rejection awaits you if you attempt to depart even in minor ways from the sacred ideology

00:44:56.160 i used to live in china where i worked as a foreign correspondent and these dynamics are eerily similar

00:45:02.100 to aspects of the cultural revolution i had a student from harvard write me the other day from his personal

00:45:07.920 email because he was too scared to write it from his college email to explain and he wrote to me and

00:45:14.560 explained that he self-censors even when he's talking to some of his best friends for fear of word

00:45:20.880 getting around um and that he you know projects what he thinks professors want to hear in his papers

00:45:27.260 and tries to write um answers and write papers with the perspective that mirrors their worldview rather than

00:45:34.580 what he thinks are the best arguments like they sound like missives like smuggled out of a totalitarian

00:45:40.640 society i think one one thing i'm hoping uh given that you know the era of trump hopefully with him out of

00:45:48.620 the picture and the clownishness and the you know just the grossness of of a lot of what that meant

00:45:56.460 that we will be able to see this other threat with more clarity um maybe that's pollyanna-ish but but that's

00:46:04.440 what i'm hoping for you know i i hope you're right i mean i certainly hope that there's there are more

00:46:10.640 people coming over to our side but they're they're so smart the way these sort of radical leftists have

00:46:16.660 seized control of so many aspects of our culture and our debate because the less people speak up and

00:46:23.040 offer differing views the more people who haven't said anything yet think they're in the minority and

00:46:27.960 that they can't speak up you know that one of the reasons i've been so vocal about this and i try to

00:46:33.160 talk about the third rail stuff you know trans race sexism and misogyny um so bluntly is because i think it's 0.98

00:46:43.120 american i think it's uniquely american i've never been one to be ginger with my language but i i think people

00:46:49.520 need to be reminded it's not east germany it's the united states of america you're allowed to talk about issues

00:46:55.160 don't be shamed out of having the opinions that you have debate is the answer silence is the devil

00:47:00.800 and don't listen to the people who tell you your views are not okay and they're not shared because

00:47:08.520 the truth is i forget the 75 million people who voted for trump you're you're of the left that most i

00:47:16.300 think most people on the left are with us they're they're just freaking terrified yeah and you know what

00:47:21.980 they're right to be terrified to some extent because how much does how much time and effort

00:47:27.820 does it cost for me you know to go on twitter and call someone an ism takes two seconds and nothing

00:47:35.160 nothing you don't need a mass group of people to to sort of ruin your reputation and take away your career

00:47:44.340 and hurt your family you just need a dedicated group of like 25 people because i'm watching it happen to a friend

00:47:51.060 right now and that scares people and it's not just you know the fact that you could get you know kicked

00:48:00.460 off of twitter for saying you know for misgendering someone meantime the ayatollah khamenei you know

00:48:06.300 talks about genociding the jews but okay um so it's not that it's that it's not that far-fetched and a lot

00:48:14.280 of people in silicon valley have been talking about this over the past two weeks to imagine you know this

00:48:19.280 sort of um censoriousness coming you know to your email or to the browser that you use or maybe

00:48:25.340 even to the bank and so i think what's going on right now is not just people protecting themselves

00:48:32.880 for whatever the mores are in the current moment they're projecting out to what they could be a year

00:48:39.360 or two years or three years from now and the other thing that i'm but but there's this sort of paradox because

00:48:47.100 people are silencing themselves and closeting themselves in order to protect themselves and maybe they will

00:48:56.140 in the short term what they don't realize is that in doing that they're sacrificing not just themselves

00:49:03.700 in the long term but the whole thing that makes this country exceptional like speak out now if if you

00:49:12.460 if you get one thing from this conversation um or one thing from my letter my story like speak out now

00:49:20.940 because it's not just about you and your mortgage or you know your professional advancement it's about

00:49:28.480 our ability to protect the things that have made this country you know the last best hope on earth

00:49:36.340 that's what's at stake here and and and i really hope people understand that you you've written so

00:49:42.560 beautifully about this i mean it's been a pleasure preparing for this interview because i got to read so

00:49:47.300 much barry weiss and one of the things you pointed out in the same vein is what we're losing

00:49:53.820 is liberal america and that is not used in the political sense not conservative versus liberal

00:50:00.500 but liberal ideals i just want to read this to the audience because there's so much it's so hard to

00:50:04.940 choose which ones i wanted to read because they're all so beautiful oh no there's amazing all right so

00:50:10.000 you you're writing about how we've lost that america used to be liberal and you write not liberal

00:50:14.240 in the narrow partisan sense but liberal in the most capacious and distinctly american sense of the word

00:50:19.680 the belief that everyone is equal because everyone is created in the image of god the belief in the

00:50:25.780 sacredness of the individual over the group or the tribe the belief that the rule of law and equality

00:50:31.380 under that law is the foundation of a free society the belief that due process and the presumption of

00:50:36.580 innocence are good and that mob violence is bad the belief that pluralism is a source of our strength

00:50:41.880 that tolerance is a reason for pride and that liberty of thought faith and speech are the bedrocks of

00:50:47.780 democracy the liberal worldview was one that recognized that there were things indeed the most important

00:50:53.700 things in life that were located outside of the realm of politics friendships art music family love

00:51:00.540 this was a world in which antonin scalia and ruth bader ginsburg could be close friends because as

00:51:06.280 scalia once said some things are more important than votes oh you don't even realize you've lost it

00:51:15.080 until it's been chipped away and chipped away and you have to ask yourself why do i feel so bad

00:51:22.280 why do i feel so sad i know something's gone that i once loved and and that this is it this is what's

00:51:29.800 happening it's not about i mean listen it's a little bit about critical race theory and that stuff which

00:51:34.760 needs to be stopped in my view but it's much bigger than that yeah i mean i i think that there's i grew up

00:51:42.900 you know i write in my book that i i feel like i grew up on a holiday from history and and maybe other

00:51:47.940 people listening felt that way too that's certain that it's like my my friend likes to joke that

00:51:53.840 americans are people that think history happens to other people like it seemed like we were inoculated

00:52:00.180 from some of the worst things that were going on um in other times of course and in other places and i

00:52:07.280 think what we've learned over the past few years really really clearly is that the veneer of

00:52:14.220 civilization and the things that we maybe assumed were as natural as gravity like the things you just

00:52:21.880 read off in that paragraph they're not they need to be protected and defended and sacrificed for and

00:52:31.000 the things that make this country exceptional you know it's not bloodline it's not you know soil it's

00:52:40.720 our ideas it's our ideas and when those ideas are under siege and they are very much under siege now

00:52:48.480 um from from lots of different directions um then america gets pulled back into the mean of history and

00:52:56.960 i think that's what we're living through um right now i think that you know nothing less than those

00:53:04.460 ideals that make us um exceptional are under attack and you know i think back to this summer

00:53:13.320 and you know lots of statues were pulled down some of some of people that you know maybe deserve to be

00:53:20.620 pulled down like confederate generals but among them were people like our first founding fathers like

00:53:26.120 abraham lincoln and our second founding fathers like frederick douglas and you didn't hear a lot of

00:53:32.400 people that are supposed to be our intellectual and moral betters you know our elites offering a full

00:53:39.080 throated condemnation of that and that's a problem like i see a direct connection between um the vandals that

00:53:49.680 pulled down lincoln and the vandals that stormed the capitol like both groups of those people 0.96

00:53:56.540 do not love what is good about america um and

00:54:03.640 i i i'm worried about i mean obviously i'm i'm really worried about where we are um and

00:54:13.820 i just think that you know it's it's we we you know we've seen other countries sort of torn apart

00:54:22.320 by the dislocations of the 21st century and it's hard to imagine that we would be one of them and

00:54:30.280 yet you know anyone that studies history sees that you know nothing lasts and we're we're so young

00:54:36.180 and of course it's possible for things to come apart that's why i think it is you know all of us

00:54:42.180 that love with this country is at its very best even with its flaws are obligated um to to defend

00:54:49.300 the things that you know the vandals are trying to to tear down right the vandals beyond beyond the

00:54:56.160 statues they're they're trying to tear down a lot of things that we care about you you try to you toy

00:55:01.520 around with the name you know because i do think some of us have been struggling to define

00:55:05.720 forgive the rhetoric but the enemy um you know like what what is this force against which we're

00:55:11.700 fighting you know i'll get out there and i'll talk about some of these absurdities that are being

00:55:15.720 done to us and i don't have a name for it and you you've written and i quote again here that american

00:55:22.240 liberalism is under siege there's a new ideology vying to replace it no one has yet decided on the

00:55:27.920 name for the force that has come to unseat liberalism some say it's social justice the writer

00:55:33.620 wesley yang refers to it as the successor ideology as in the successor to liberalism at some point it will

00:55:40.000 have a formal name one that properly describes its mixture of post-modernism post-colonialism

00:55:46.120 identity politics neo-marxism critical race theory intersectionality and the therapeutic mentality

00:55:54.320 until then it's up to each of us to see it plainly look past the hashtags and the slogans and the jargon

00:55:59.740 to assess it honestly and then explain it to others and that's the that's the challenge right to get our

00:56:05.980 arms around what are because it's like if you feel like i i can't stand critical race theory i can't

00:56:11.040 believe that this thing is making its way into corporate america and into the schools of america

00:56:14.840 and that the the shaming of people based on pigmentation has now become acceptable and if

00:56:19.440 you think it's okay just because the people who are being shamed are whites you haven't studied history

00:56:23.260 to see how that pendulum swings back right like that this is not going to end well if we continue

00:56:28.220 going down this route it's creating more racism which is what i hate so much about it it's totally

00:56:34.520 anti the mlk dream which they're open about i mean people pushing this stuff don't believe in the mlk

00:56:39.580 theory they they don't believe they think if you're after content of character instead of color of skin

00:56:43.920 that's your racism talking um but if you focus in on that right the response from the the sort of

00:56:50.000 the radical left is you're a racist like what you're trying to avoid is an education on the history of

00:56:55.880 racism in america and how to combat it you know you need to read more robin d'angelo and i think

00:57:00.740 you and i can look at them and say you're insane robin d'angelo's book is racist her theory is racist 0.64

00:57:05.200 i'm fighting against racism i don't believe we have the same goal get rid of racism if we can or at

00:57:10.200 least eliminate it in the pockets in which it still exists or work to work toward it but we have a very

00:57:15.100 different approach and very different very deep disagreement on the methods that kind of talk that

00:57:20.240 kind of language is not available to most people they don't even understand that that's that's the

00:57:24.160 argument we're having that's what's been so genius about this movement is that it frames itself as

00:57:29.780 social justice as the new civil rights movement as anti-racism who wouldn't want to sign up for those

00:57:35.340 things but in reality it is cynical it is intolerant um it is neo-racist it is neo-racist the idea that

00:57:44.840 some people are born into original sin or collective guilt because of their skin color and that other

00:57:53.060 people have more claim to morality and truth because of theirs um i don't want to live in a

00:58:00.100 world that believes that i don't want to live in a country that accepts that as normal um and one of

00:58:06.520 the things that i think is so important is you know we've lived through the past few years you know

00:58:11.760 we've seen just such a degradation of language and such a coarsening of language and i think one of

00:58:17.480 the things that's very important is for us to reclaim the language um and that's certainly the

00:58:24.140 case when it comes to critical race theory um again it do you believe um in equality under the law

00:58:34.680 do you believe that we should strive to live in a world where color doesn't matter um do you believe

00:58:41.480 that you know the world is complicated and people should not be slotted into you know two categories

00:58:49.440 you know victim and victimizer oppressor and oppressed and do you think that anyone that

00:58:55.020 thinks the opposite of that is embracing something illiberal intolerant and dangerous you know it's we

00:59:01.680 have to do a better job of explaining it and while there are people out there that are you know again

00:59:07.540 like it is hard to explain it because these are ideas that you know are quite can be quite jargony

00:59:14.420 come from um the fringes of the academy um you know it's post-structural is like we don't have to go

00:59:21.460 into all of it but i i know why it's hard for people um to explain it even though they're trying to

00:59:28.080 to do a good job and i think frankly it's the job of people like me and you um to to to sound the alarm

00:59:37.120 on it even more than we already are the one and only barry weiss i mean she is she's so important

00:59:43.580 to what's happening in our culture right now to the the fight against all this nonsense and she is

00:59:49.140 totally fearless barry weiss is somebody you want on your side and by the way team um the reason they

00:59:57.140 hate her so much like the left that's sort of the woke left not the regular normal left but the woke

01:00:01.880 left hates her so much because she's so effective she's so good she's so articulate she's got away 0.97

01:00:07.140 with the words things and um you know when you listen to her she's persuasive it also was one of

01:00:12.800 the more requested guests we had before we got her on i mean there was probably a few there was like her

01:00:17.440 sam harris jordan peterson there was a small list of people that we just got from the very moment we

01:00:22.920 launched tulsi yeah um but it was a kind of a perfect fit i feel like i mean and she is she's

01:00:28.900 someone who's going to be in in the orbit for a long time she she came to new york and this is 0.82

01:00:33.740 before she actually came on and i this is the first time i met her in person and we sat down

01:00:38.240 and several margaritas later we were hysterical laughing and crying and agreeing on a lot and

01:00:45.380 just lamenting the state of our society but resolving to do a million things together to solve it

01:00:50.300 and fair is one of those things that actually did work out but i i would partner with her on anything

01:00:55.520 she's just she's a force to be reckoned with and unlike yours truly she's organized and she'll make

01:01:00.400 things happen she has just enough of um abby in her to make her both a fearless warrior and a very

01:01:05.840 well organized party planner yeah and this is this was one of her well actually this was the first long

01:01:12.360 form interview she gave after leaving the new york times and you know what i liked about the discussion

01:01:18.540 and it kind of it's where it kicks off at the beginning and you talk about her being you know

01:01:22.600 denarius targaryen coming out with the flames going on behind her and and you got i guess you kind of

01:01:28.240 think that that's how it is right you think someone like barry weiss like it would be so easy to fire

01:01:33.640 off you know a letter like that and to you know leave the new york times and with explosions going off

01:01:41.060 but you know she talked about how it was really scary and i think that it resonates with a lot of people

01:01:46.900 because it's a really scary time sad but can i tell you something weird that's been happening to

01:01:52.240 me in new york barry's profile i think is only going up and she's become like some sort of weird

01:01:58.680 litmus test amongst a lot of new yorkers who you'll be talking to and you'll be talking about politics or

01:02:03.660 commentators and people will say to me like how do you feel about barry weiss it's like people who

01:02:09.200 clearly are not listening to the podcast and uh i'm like i love her and then you'll be like yes me too

01:02:13.620 me too right like they don't want to say they love her because if you say you love barry it's

01:02:18.460 like saying you you love me or you love somebody who's on the right and she's of the left so like

01:02:24.200 they have to be careful about openly loving barry weiss meanwhile i'm like i i can't get enough of

01:02:29.820 barry weiss i want to be the third person in their marriage like i i would have throuple with them

01:02:33.540 you know it's so weird because i'm a gen z millennial cusper and this is danny speaking our booker

01:02:41.800 sorry keep going danny and my friend i have friends who are non-binary who are on the lgbtq i

01:02:49.640 abcdefg uh you know spectrum but then i have friends who are big maga fans and i feel like i mean my

01:02:59.060 friends and i were all in our early 20s and we have open conversations about politics and i think we all

01:03:06.900 are just trying to figure out what the heck our beliefs are because we're growing up i mean we

01:03:12.220 were in college when cancel culture started and i think we're all just trying to figure out what what

01:03:18.100 is cancel culture like what what was the world before cancel culture because we were you know

01:03:22.620 18 19 when that started like what do conversations look like before this and we're still trying to

01:03:29.180 figure out what our beliefs are and how to navigate this new world it's going to be up to young people 0.90

01:03:34.780 like you to fight back against the people who are saying you have to accept all or nothing whether

01:03:39.540 it's some diehard maga person who's like you will not criticize the trump or the diehard wokesters who

01:03:46.280 are like you will not express a different opinion than my own or your bad jd vance i said when he came

01:03:53.540 on was literally my favorite interview at nbc it's the piece of journalism that i did there that i'm most

01:04:01.920 proud of and you can see it on youtube by the way the interview it's just it's a beautiful family and

01:04:07.100 i got to meet his sister lindsey who is a star of the book and what became a movie and um i still think

01:04:13.560 you should go back and watch it because i think it'll tug at your heartstrings in a way it'll be

01:04:16.760 meaningful uh anyway so we got him on the show and it was everything i i knew it would be you know this

01:04:23.700 name because he's if you haven't heard the interview he's the the author of the massive massive best-selling

01:04:29.300 book hillbilly elegy and he's actually now finally really considering a move into politics running for

01:04:36.820 senate in debbie's home state of ohio he's got big big money backing him um peter teal the investment

01:04:43.760 banker who backed trump remember he got kicked out of silicon valley basically he's um really well-known

01:04:49.700 investment guy anyway he he employed jd in san francisco for a couple years and jd got out there and was

01:04:54.160 like what the hell am i doing in san francisco i don't i don't like it moved back to ohio married

01:04:59.320 usha who had clerked for the u.s supreme court brilliant woman and i think he's finally getting

01:05:04.580 ready to make the move and we need him we need more just like him in politics um and we'll have him back

01:05:10.220 on the show if he decides to announce anything anyway he came on november last year it was around

01:05:14.860 the same time that the movie version of the book had been released on netflix and he's unlike anyone

01:05:21.080 he really his personal journey is an incredible american story um when he was on we talked about

01:05:27.960 the learned helplessness that exists in some parts of america but also about his hope for americans

01:05:35.460 because he has seen that those who say life's unfair and leave it there are not nearly as prevalent as

01:05:44.180 those who say life's unfair and here's how i'm gonna overcome it the american dream

01:05:51.020 you could say he's coming up don't miss this one second get an ad in and then jd vance

01:05:56.580 you talk about culture versus economics and the effect on a community and you know the absurdity of

01:06:08.260 the learn to code message to these coal miners let's say think about if they turned around if if you know

01:06:14.540 trump's administration turned around to black america in chicago and you know where you talk

01:06:21.220 about blight right and said learn to code yep the the outrage that we would get in that message

01:06:28.640 you know there yes we do have to talk about agency and willingness to get off the couch and fix your own

01:06:34.900 life for sure that's a that's a massive piece of it but we also have to be realistic about what the

01:06:42.240 economics look like and what's really realistic and expecting of these people and i just think

01:06:47.940 you can't if you can't do it with the black community you can't do it with the white community 0.97

01:06:52.080 and what we're really talking about is people who are lower socioeconomic status and and how to lift

01:06:57.140 them up and and you got to look at both of these things what's their attitude and what's what's

01:07:01.340 potentially available to them yeah there's there's a sociologist who's actually a very liberal guy and

01:07:06.360 i've gotten to know him a little bit and i cited him a few times in the book his name's

01:07:09.620 william julius wilson and um you know very much a guy on the left but just incredibly thoughtful

01:07:16.020 about these problems and you know he's he's been i think pretty influential in how i think about this

01:07:21.720 interplay between cultural and economics because you're right you've got to take people who are 0.97

01:07:26.040 sitting on the couch doing nothing and you got to get them off the couch you got to get them into

01:07:28.960 good jobs you're hopefully able to support families able to raise those families and stability and

01:07:33.820 comfort and then you create a virtuous cycle from generation to generation instead of you know the

01:07:38.800 vicious cycle that we sometimes have in families that are struggling with joblessness and um and

01:07:43.940 addiction and so forth but you know one of the things that's going to motivate people to get off

01:07:49.240 the couch of course is the existence of a good job right that's an important piece of it but it's not

01:07:53.220 the only piece another thing that's going to motivate people to get off the couch is when their neighbors

01:07:58.420 and friends are also getting off the couch right when you're in a community where there just isn't a lot

01:08:04.440 going on where a lot of people are doing drugs a lot of people aren't finding good jobs even the guys

01:08:10.580 who want to go and work and find good jobs it creates this sort of mentality where why try right

01:08:17.560 i call it you know learned helplessness um you know hopelessness is a good way to think about it

01:08:23.260 but but if you want to actually improve people's lives you can't just say well here's a money here's

01:08:31.140 a check from the government spend it well or here's a good job go and apply but you've got to

01:08:37.040 create the community infrastructure uh that makes it people feel like it's possible and if they try

01:08:43.480 something good is actually going to come from it and they've got to feel pressure too i mean i you know

01:08:47.820 i've certainly been um i'm sure all of us have been in moments in our lives we're feeling a little

01:08:52.540 bit lazy a little bit shiftless unsure what we want to do you know one of the things that helps break

01:08:57.240 you out of that pattern is somebody in your life saying hey you know do something else here right

01:09:02.660 um you know go you know maybe it's maybe it's your wife who says you need to do the dishes or 1.00

01:09:08.060 help out a little bit more maybe it's somebody in your family who said you need to go and apply to that

01:09:12.320 job you know those things matter but like i think about my own life and all of these little influences

01:09:19.580 that helped get me on the right path you take those influences away and it's just me trying to figure

01:09:25.600 this stuff out on my own and i think things just don't don't go as well for me right if mamaw wasn't

01:09:30.260 telling me you need to go get off your ass and apply for that job and work hard if if i didn't have 0.96

01:09:36.760 you know my my sister and my aunt and my mom saying you know if you want to have a good job

01:09:42.240 you may need to go get an education if i didn't have people in the marine corps saying you know here's

01:09:47.600 what you need to do here's how you need to apply for financial aid here's how you need to sort of

01:09:51.500 structure your life so you can actually succeed in school you know all of these weird little

01:09:55.960 community influences are what i think the building blocks of success ultimately are um and and and

01:10:02.600 those you know that that's sort of as i see at the interplay between culture and economics is it's not

01:10:07.980 just the good job it's also the full spate of community actors that make it seem both possible

01:10:14.800 and available to you to actually get off that couch and go do something um and that's what's

01:10:20.500 what's ultimately missing when you're when you've got people um who who who are really really left

01:10:28.960 behind and and really don't see a path forward i also think that's the thing that's missing the

01:10:35.040 most is people in their lives who can actually help them right it's it's back to the old if you can see

01:10:39.560 it you can be it you know it's it's very helpful to see role models around you who have done it

01:10:44.100 but i also think this is one of the problems with identity politics because the messaging from people

01:10:49.400 who are obsessed with their gender their skin color their sexuality uh is you the reason you

01:10:56.520 can't do it is because of these immutable characteristics like you can't you the american

01:11:01.480 dream is not possible for you because the system won't allow it and it completely takes away a person's

01:11:08.340 agency and and they do openly crap on the american dream it's not possible for you america itself

01:11:15.760 is not what people say it is and this anti-american sentiment cropping up i think is another thing

01:11:21.940 that motivates a lot of voters but it's they're basically challenging the notion that anyone no

01:11:28.820 matter their circumstances can achieve success in this country what one of the things that i think so

01:11:34.100 beautiful about your book your story and the reason why many on the left hate it is that you're

01:11:41.620 you you you're an example of it being possible even under really tough circumstances even for a kid who

01:11:50.340 has almost no advantages other than a grandma and and grandpa who really loved him and decided to give

01:11:59.540 him a little tough love yeah i mean the thing i always ask people when they talk about the structural

01:12:08.880 and systemic factors that make it hard or impossible for people to achieve is let's say you're absolutely

01:12:15.840 right let's just say for the sake of argument that you're absolutely right what good is that message

01:12:22.980 when directed at a kid who's struggling and trying to figure out how to make their way right so i i'm not

01:12:29.180 one of these people who says the people you know says that sort of poor folks don't have any disadvantages 0.99

01:12:35.040 like i can't possibly look at my grandma's life and my grandma's upbringing and say you know she had

01:12:40.440 the same set of opportunities as someone who was born in an upper class background in the 1940s in new

01:12:48.340 york city i think frankly she also had a lot of advantages right she had i think a lot of important

01:12:52.760 cultural training that she wouldn't have gotten but obviously her life was hard i don't i i don't even

01:12:58.520 would look at my life and say you know jd had it easy relative to a kid born of privilege

01:13:04.760 but so what in some ways is the takeaway from that to tell a kid like me when i was 12 years old your

01:13:12.340 life is unfair the deck is stacked against you there's nothing you can ultimately do so you know

01:13:17.480 why isn't the message that i take from that ultimately well i should just give off them right if

01:13:22.400 the deck is stacked against me if there's no hope then i shouldn't even try and there's there's just

01:13:27.320 this weird strain of thought in american life right now where you can't hold two thoughts in

01:13:31.940 your head at the same time and and in this particular moment i think the two thoughts

01:13:36.700 of this particular question the two thoughts that we have to hold in our head at the same time are

01:13:41.320 one yes life can be hard for people who are born poor in tough circumstances but two it's still

01:13:50.420 important for them to see that they have agency and that they need to try anyway right it might not

01:13:56.080 always work out and we got to be honest about that fact but the worst of all possible worlds

01:14:00.960 is where people are just told there's no hope there's no reason to try there's no reason to make

01:14:06.660 anything of yourself and i do unfortunately think that's the message that a lot of people on the left

01:14:11.520 are ultimately giving uh to communities like mine i am you know my you know my my grandparents

01:14:18.640 were classic blue dog democrats and i'm actually sympathetic to a lot of the arguments that folks

01:14:26.180 on the left make about you know certain unfairnesses you know especially when it comes to people who

01:14:31.500 don't um who don't have a lot of money who grew up in traumatic homes who grew up in abused

01:14:35.980 and neglected environments i don't think that they're wrong that that creates special disadvantages

01:14:42.020 but you can't just encourage people to wallow in everything that's gone wrong in their lives you

01:14:48.220 have to be able to say on the one hand you know we as community leaders as policymakers as media folks

01:14:54.100 are going to try to make it a little bit easier for those who are disadvantaged to have a shot at the

01:14:58.440 american dream while at the same time telling people who are struggling to achieve the american dream

01:15:03.280 it's possible it is out there for you if you're if you're willing to work for it

01:15:07.640 mm-hmm well i think the other piece of it too is once whence is once one achieves the american dream

01:15:14.820 the response the collective response from the left in particular should not be fuck off like that's

01:15:22.860 one of the problems we're seeing is success has been so demonized in the country now even if you are

01:15:27.700 self-made just having it is a problem you know they're they'll hold it against you you've you've you

01:15:34.020 must now see the rest of the country as less than you must not be paying your fair share you have to

01:15:40.120 give more of it back you know and the less you give the more of a miser an awful person you it's like

01:15:44.980 i don't know that i i just think we've changed the messaging from good for you maybe i could do it too

01:15:51.180 help me understand how to screw you yep yeah there's definitely a way in which i think our country is

01:15:59.040 really i shouldn't say our country i think that our leadership class is really uncomfortable with

01:16:04.100 success and with people who have achieved success so i saw this interesting poll just a couple of

01:16:09.220 days ago and it was looking you're just at trump voters college educated trump voters versus non

01:16:13.940 college educated trump voters it was the question was you know do you think that it's possible for

01:16:19.900 a person to achieve the american dream and i think it was 71 percent of non-college educated trump

01:16:24.960 voters said yes and i think it was you know 40 or something of the college educated trump voters said

01:16:30.960 yes and it was true for the for the biden voters as well i don't remember the exact numbers but it's

01:16:35.340 basically the people who didn't have college degrees were actually more optimistic about their future and

01:16:39.980 more optimistic about the chances for the american dream than people who had gone to college

01:16:44.780 and i think that's because they haven't thankfully absorbed the message that their lives are hopeless just

01:16:52.480 because they don't have all the advantages in the world and that's that's just an important thing

01:16:56.600 and i i worry about our our country's inability to you know try to uplift those who are struggling

01:17:05.440 without treating those people as hopeless children who have no have no agency and no no responsibility

01:17:11.180 um you know there's can i ask you something about that because i i wonder is the other piece of that

01:17:18.640 the people who are college educated saying eh i don't know is that do you think born of i i made it

01:17:27.340 it's not that great like i have to work my ass off i never see my family the government takes 50 percent 0.63

01:17:35.380 of my dough uh you know i i kind of made it to the promised land and what do you think you know i i i think

01:17:43.940 there's there's part of that going on but the the biggest when i looked at that poll what i took away

01:17:49.300 from is that if you're a working class american uh versus a professionally educated american a person

01:17:57.180 with with post uh bachelor's education uh then you're you're fundamentally living in in two different

01:18:03.440 media and information environments and i i do think that you know our universities our elite media

01:18:10.720 institutions have just grown pretty pessimistic about the american experience the american

01:18:15.340 experiment and consequently people who have spent their lives in those academies in those media

01:18:22.800 environments i think they've just absorbed uh that things are uh more pessimistic and and more

01:18:29.860 you know more negative than a lot of working class americans believe uh i also you know i i i really do

01:18:38.040 think that a lot of this is like ideology ends up trumping people's ability to think because

01:18:44.880 one of the more interesting dynamics is in in in in response to the book is that people who were

01:18:53.280 you know really well educated who are sort of the winners in american society both in terms of their

01:18:59.340 income and their prestige they really wanted to project their own political narrative onto the book

01:19:05.080 and they wanted to sort of fit me into this box right so if like jd said this thing that i agree

01:19:09.540 with i'm gonna ignore that i'm gonna only you know attach myself to the things that i disagree with

01:19:14.800 or vice versa right people would sort of you know had either very strongly positive or negative views

01:19:19.900 and and what i found you know is that working class americans were actually better able to hold

01:19:26.040 two thoughts in their their head at the same time they sort of got that i was i was making both an

01:19:31.100 argument about the fact that yeah sometimes life is unfair but you still got to try to work against

01:19:37.300 that unfairness and make something of yourself anyway and you know i think that's just because

01:19:43.820 people who don't grow up in a particular media environment are not constantly looking for alarm

01:19:49.660 bells that a particular idea or concept violates one of their the sort of sacred tenets of their faith

01:19:55.340 their ideology instead of just more open-minded i think i predict with your movie because the movie

01:20:03.120 is now out about uh you know based on your book you're going to get slaughtered by the reviewers and

01:20:09.040 you're going to get completely loved by the actual viewers it'll be reviewers versus viewers as we've seen

01:20:15.320 in any film that you know that hasn't a message like yours which is the american dream may still exist

01:20:22.600 it may not be perfect it may not be pretty but it does still exist and that even shines a spotlight

01:20:27.600 on this group of people you know people in appalachia people struggling with the opioid crisis

01:20:32.640 in a way that that isn't entirely about woke culture or victimization and how the country's bad

01:20:39.380 that's what we've seen you know it's it's one of the reasons why roseanne the reboot was so successful

01:20:43.560 right like they talked about these issues in a way that really resonated with real america

01:20:47.880 even though the people who wrote about that the reboot were like they're horrified even before

01:20:52.860 her scandal they were like this is horrifying how could the show be succeeding and i saw this already

01:20:57.660 there was one review by the washington post that's this is so perfect because that what their

01:21:03.360 criticism of the book the movie is that they really wanted it to be more woke and and this is a

01:21:09.280 quote from one of the reviews vance paints appalachia as a near exclusively white space erased our black

01:21:18.220 residents and their history in the region missing are the many generations of native american communities

01:21:23.320 ignored is a growing latino population disregarded are appalachians who embrace racial justice and

01:21:29.960 acceptance of their lgbtq neighbors this is a personal story of your family what why did you get into all

01:21:37.200 that right right right like and if you imagine what a movie like that would look like you know

01:21:42.300 where where you're trying to tell the story of a family but you have to you have to actually talk

01:21:46.840 about every other conceivable group majority minority what have you and present them on the screen so

01:21:54.100 that it satisfies this sort of woke obsession it is with a little no justice no peace sign in the

01:21:59.480 background it's it's it's just yeah it's it's just totally preposterous um and anyways it happens

01:22:05.840 most of my family voted for donald trump uh my family is hardly politically monolithic my mom

01:22:11.120 you know who by the way has been clean for six years now is doing very well uh just just saw her a

01:22:16.080 few days uh just saw her a few days ago you know my mom voted for jesse jackson in the democratic 0.99

01:22:20.720 primary in 1984 um and and then she's voted for republicans and she's voted for democrats since i i just

01:22:27.840 think that there's this way in which elite americans want working class americans to be more

01:22:35.220 ideological and more woke than they actually are you know one of my favorite responses to the book or

01:22:40.880 to the movie i can't even remember uh which at this point uh but is is that uh you know jd vance

01:22:47.640 doesn't talk enough about bipoc bipoc and lgbtqia americans in his sort of experience of appalachia

01:22:58.520 it's like okay so bipoc is black indigenous people of color lgbtqia is lesbian gender non-performing 0.87

01:23:07.980 bisexual transgender intersex asexual and i read this and i'm like you people are crazy like truly 0.96

01:23:16.820 the authentic real appalachians use these like 14 character pronouns every time they talk about

01:23:24.160 themselves and you know i i just listen to this and i think who who are you kidding that you think

01:23:30.140 this is the way that appalachians or frankly anybody else black white brown whatever talks about

01:23:35.380 themselves in their communities this is a particular obsession of a particular upper class of americans

01:23:42.300 and i think it's insane uh but don't try to pretend that that's the real america because you want it to

01:23:48.380 be it just isn't right a moment on the asexuals in the holler

01:23:52.940 you know what one of my one of my good friends just a a side you know he's sort of like a populist

01:24:04.000 he calls himself a populist reagan democrat but um he's he's a professor i won't give his name because

01:24:09.780 i don't want him to to get fired but uh he's he's you know he's he's a gay man uh you know in his in

01:24:15.960 his mid-50s just a great great friend of ours and he sent me this tweet from elizabeth warren's

01:24:23.520 campaign a twitter account back when she was still running for a president and it was like something

01:24:29.180 like you know we love all people who are intersex asexual and two-spirit and this guy sends me this

01:24:37.900 tweet and he says look man we gay guys just wanted to be left to hell alone you you can have your two

01:24:44.440 spirits there's there's something about just this bizarre way of discussing these issues

01:24:53.100 that's alienating and dividing the country i love that i i love that the the ripping on hillbilly

01:25:00.960 elegy is you know you really needed to diversify your cast and and the way you look back at your

01:25:05.800 own hometown and add in a bunch of transgender people who weren't there in a bunch of different

01:25:10.960 races and ethnicities that weren't actually there when you were they just need to do it everything

01:25:15.580 needs to be woke okay and now they're going after a senate campaign i mean you know that the the idea

01:25:21.620 that a populist message but being funded by billionaires it's like peter thiel i mean you're

01:25:27.800 not going to group him in with like you know your typical billionaire i don't know how that is you know

01:25:32.800 in some sort of is not allowed to to happen where where that that could have a populist message

01:25:37.800 yeah only the far left cares about stuff like that it's like anybody running for office has to raise

01:25:42.580 money you know they all have to raise money it's not easy to put ads out and all that stuff i want

01:25:47.480 to know about the person is it a good person out there beholden to some dark corporate force that's

01:25:52.600 important to know but peter thiel is like an investor across many properties like what if you're beholden to

01:25:56.860 him i think you're beholden to sort of amorphous causes i have something i have two things that i thought

01:26:02.680 about when i was listening to this the first is he talks a little bit about the word prestige i have

01:26:08.060 never felt a desire for prestige i thought it was so interesting his focus on you know he was talking

01:26:12.900 about like how he came i mean he is he's literally the american dream like he is obviously the american

01:26:18.040 dream and when i was listening to him i was like i never felt a desire for prestige and i wonder where

01:26:23.180 that comes from and should i have a desire for prestige this is why you became my assistant

01:26:27.800 i just feel like it's worked out so well

01:26:35.300 i don't know that and like his other is other stuff about like learned helplessness you know like

01:26:43.600 how we are learning helplessness in society i also when i hear that i'm like my i have such a strong

01:26:50.300 desire to make sure my daughters do not learn helplessness like i want the exact opposite i want

01:26:57.720 them to learn no helplessness i want them to be the opposite of that well i was going to say so i've

01:27:03.460 said this um to our other teammates before about you abby abby's got the highest eq of anybody i've

01:27:09.760 ever met in real life i it's off the charts like you just you can read people and situations quickly

01:27:15.480 and accurately in a way that is special and i think it's no accident that you don't feel the need for

01:27:23.040 for prestige because you have your priorities straight what is prestige what is that that's a

01:27:26.880 bullshit word right it's like you love kevin you love your daughters love me anyway but my point is

01:27:33.980 like you've got your priorities straight and you put all of your energy into those things and you work

01:27:38.860 hard you work your ass off at your job you do really well that's what matters who cares how other

01:27:43.560 people are looking at you and like prestigious it's almost like another word for created envy and i love

01:27:49.940 jd i don't think that's how he meant that but like i also don't feel the need for that like i feel the

01:27:54.460 need to have a happy life not to have people admire me when jd was talking about the american dream and

01:28:00.120 how it is possible and it's a beautiful thing to you know shoot for and if you say that anymore if

01:28:05.900 you say like oh you know i still believe in the american dream you're almost like shit on for it 0.62

01:28:10.400 and it's really sad because this is an amazing country and in saying that you believe in the american

01:28:17.500 dream is saying you believe in your own individual agency to do whatever the heck you want and that's

01:28:22.640 really what we should be celebrating and no one seems to want to yeah saying like america sucks is

01:28:27.900 part of the american dream yeah you have the right to say that equality of opportunity is awesome

01:28:32.400 equality of outcome is not your guarantee as an american and in fact the hard work and effort that

01:28:37.760 goes into how one approaches any task in one's life is what makes inequality of outcome a reality

01:28:44.640 and a great thing now you shouldn't wind up in the same place if you phoned it in if you didn't work

01:28:48.960 as hard if you didn't you know spread as much positive energy right you shouldn't and that's

01:28:53.760 why the system does ultimately work not perfectly but it does work i also love what he said when he

01:28:59.040 says like you know the message that permeates our society is the deck is stacked against you and how

01:29:05.280 bad that message is because if you're given that message what what there is literally no incentive to

01:29:11.040 do anything better or work harder or to explore another avenue or see how you can get out of your

01:29:16.380 current situation like what a dead end message the deck is stacked against you like that's just not

01:29:22.220 a good place to start do not go away because we have a special special treat for you right after this

01:29:28.960 break we are going to bring you daniel rodriguez known as america's tenor the singing policeman

01:29:35.680 daniel became famous after the 9-11 terrorist attacks when his rendition of god bless america

01:29:43.080 uh became incredibly popular and he was invited to sing at several memorial events i have had the

01:29:49.400 honor of seeing him perform live many times and it will send chills down your spine he has given us

01:29:56.100 permission uh to play his rendition of god bless america for you guys and um if you don't already

01:30:02.360 love daniel you're about to stand by

01:30:04.920 while the storm clouds gather far across the sea let us swear allegiance to a land that's free

01:30:19.800 let us all be grateful for a land so fair as we raise our voices

01:30:29.080 in a solemn prayer

01:30:32.360 god bless america

01:30:40.080 land that i love

01:30:46.080 stand beside her

01:30:49.080 and guide her

01:30:52.080 through the night

01:30:54.080 through the night with the light from above

01:30:59.080 from the mountains

01:31:02.080 to the prairies

01:31:05.080 to the oceans

01:31:08.080 white with foam

01:31:12.080 god bless america

01:31:17.080 my home

01:31:19.080 my home sweet home

01:31:24.080 god bless america

01:31:29.080 my home sweet home

01:31:36.080 god bless america

01:31:41.080 god bless america

01:31:46.080 and god bless america

01:31:51.080 and freedom

01:31:53.080 that i love

01:31:54.080 stand beside her

01:31:55.080 stand beside her

01:31:56.080 and guide her

01:31:57.080 through the night with the light from above

01:31:59.080 from the mountains

01:32:01.080 to the prairies

01:32:04.080 To the oceans

01:32:07.700 White with a foam

01:32:11.800 God bless America

01:32:15.820 My home sweet home

01:32:22.440 God bless America

01:32:27.740 My home sweet home

01:32:34.080 My home

01:32:44.080 Wow, wow, right?

01:32:58.880 God bless America.

01:33:00.800 God bless America.

01:33:02.100 Listen, have a wonderful, wonderful weekend.

01:33:04.080 And don't forget to tune in to the show on Monday because we have Brett Weinstein.

01:33:08.700 He's been all over the news lately, getting a lot of pushback on an episode he did on the COVID vaccines.

01:33:16.000 And kicked off YouTube and just Brett's all over the news these days.

01:33:20.200 And I've been wanting to talk to him anyway, so we moved it up and we're going to have a fascinating discussion about all of it.

01:33:25.140 Don't miss that show.

01:33:26.020 In fact, by popular demand, because I think I see his name more than any other in our comments these days saying,

01:33:31.500 Get Brett, get Brett. 1.00

01:33:32.260 So we got Brett.

01:33:33.240 We're going to do it on Monday.

01:33:34.340 And in the meantime, happy Independence Day to America, to all of you.

01:33:39.100 God bless you.

01:33:39.900 God bless your families.

01:33:41.160 And God bless our beautiful country, the United States of America.

01:33:44.040 Go Team USA.

01:33:44.840 Thanks for listening to The Megyn Kelly Show. 0.94

01:33:48.920 No BS, no agenda, and no fear.

01:33:53.560 The Megyn Kelly Show is a Devil May Care media production in collaboration with Red Seat Ventures.

01:33:58.020 Did you know that everyday activities like ASMR can actually be healthy for you?

01:34:17.880 Right now, you're improving your heart health, boosting your brain activity, and lowering your stress.

01:34:28.020 Manulife wants you to see healthy living differently, so you can live a longer, healthier life.

01:34:36.860 Visit manulife.ca slash health to learn more ways Manulife can help.

01:34:41.540 That's why you're seeing nothing right now.

01:34:42.600 Don't put your head on más. 0.99

01:34:45.020 Manulife can help.

01:34:47.160 See you next week.

01:34:48.640 I'm answering the basics.

01:34:49.340 I'll remain answering that cat.

01:35:03.240 OK, we'll have questions.

The Megyn Kelly Show - July 02, 2021

American Stories, with Bari Weiss, J.D. Vance, and Mike Rowe ｜ Ep. 123

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