The Megyn Kelly Show - AOC vs. Vance, Bongino Leaving FBI, and Coldplay ＂Kiss Cam＂ Woman Speaks Out, with Glenn Greenwald ｜ Ep. 1216

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00:00:56.080 Welcome to The Megyn Kelly Show, live on Sirius XM Channel 111 every weekday at New East.

00:01:04.020 Hey everyone, I'm Megyn Kelly.

00:01:12.000 Welcome to The Megyn Kelly Show.

00:01:13.260 Oh, it's such a festive set here today.

00:01:15.160 We've got our twinkly Christmas trees and I've got a sparkly Christmas shirt and it's happening.

00:01:20.760 I mean, it is like happening now, people.

00:01:23.640 Like T minus what?

00:01:24.740 Seven days?

00:01:25.320 What's today?

00:01:25.740 The 18th?

00:01:26.720 So yeah, T minus seven.

00:01:28.840 My gosh, are you ready?

00:01:30.340 I'm not 100% ready, but there's still time.

00:01:34.060 It's high noon and we're going to tell you why that term is in the news today.

00:01:39.800 It's amazing.

00:01:40.680 It's actually, I think, my favorite story of the day.

00:01:42.780 It has something to do with that viral video of the couple at the Coldplay concert last summer.

00:01:47.560 But on the news, there's a lot happening.

00:01:50.620 The shooter who killed two and wounded nine at Brown University Saturday, still on the loose.

00:01:55.620 Amazingly, the completely dark, shaded, unreadable video that they put out of the suspect hasn't ginned up any leads.

00:02:04.380 I know, you're shocked, shocked.

00:02:06.240 And the authorities don't seem to have much more, although there is one glimmer of hope and we'll tell you what it is.

00:02:11.280 Plus, it's AOC versus JDV in a potential preview of 2028.

00:02:19.420 Very interesting development here.

00:02:21.800 Here to talk about all of this and more is Glenn Greenwald.

00:02:24.680 He's a Pulitzer Prize-winning journalist and host of Rumble's System Update.

00:02:29.880 We talk a lot about personal responsibility on this show.

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00:02:50.260 Disease can develop silently for years before symptoms appear.

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00:03:35.280 Because no one should control your health decisions but you.

00:03:39.940 Glenn, so good to see you.

00:03:41.880 Love the fact that you are here today.

00:03:43.960 Good to see you.

00:03:44.580 I did not come festive.

00:03:45.640 I feel a little bit like the Grinch after that big buildup you gave yourself about how Christmassy you are.

00:03:50.240 But I'm going to try and get in the holiday spirit, even if it's not with my clothing and background.

00:03:55.360 Like I have about 200 sparkly little diamonds, fake diamonds on my black shirt.

00:03:59.700 Makes me feel like I'm ready for Santa and some Nog. 1.00

00:04:03.080 Okay.

00:04:04.140 So there's so many fun things that I want to go through with you.

00:04:06.780 I'm like genuinely some days you just wake up and the news cycle is amazing.

00:04:09.680 And then you see who the guest is and you're like, it's Mana from heaven.

00:04:12.940 This is exactly the man I want to be talking to.

00:04:14.440 Let's have so much fun.

00:04:15.800 Exactly.

00:04:16.400 Exactly.

00:04:16.720 All right.

00:04:17.860 So let's kick it off with JDV versus AOC.

00:04:20.720 A poll comes out.

00:04:22.720 The Daily Beast published it.

00:04:24.960 New poll puts Dem Star ahead of Vance in 2028 showdown.

00:04:29.540 Newsweek.

00:04:30.320 AOC leads JD Vance for first time in 2028 election matchup, colon, poll.

00:04:36.140 AOC retweeted the poll with just the word bloop, B-L-O-O-P, and an exclamation point.

00:04:44.220 Not really sure what bloop is. 0.71

00:04:46.380 It's awfully close to poop.

00:04:49.300 I'm not, I don't, or boom.

00:04:52.260 I don't know.

00:04:52.640 Pick one.

00:04:53.140 Bloop doesn't seem to work for me.

00:04:54.260 But Grok says, it seemed to be a playful exclamation, like a lighthearted, there it is,

00:04:59.380 or mic drop.

00:05:00.840 Okay.

00:05:01.200 So this poll had her up 51-49 over JD Vance in a poll of 1,500 registered voters taken

00:05:11.720 between December 5th and 11th in a hypothetical 2028 matchup.

00:05:17.840 Great.

00:05:18.680 So she's run with it.

00:05:19.720 She's enjoying the fact that she's beating Vance, and so is the mainstream media running

00:05:23.660 with it.

00:05:24.260 We actually took a look at this poll done by Argument slash Verisite.

00:05:32.380 And the first thing we do with any poll here at the MK Show is we go to 538, which is an

00:05:38.080 aggregator of polls, and we see whether they use it.

00:05:41.560 Well, they, because they exclude the least reliable polls, and it's not rated by 538.

00:05:47.400 It is not accepted by 538 as a legitimate poll.

00:05:50.340 New York Times as well says it does not meet their standards to be included in their polling

00:05:54.700 aggregation.

00:05:56.600 It is not a traditional independent polling outlet like Gallup or Pew.

00:06:00.820 It is a media organization offering proprietary polling alongside its opinion journalism.

00:06:06.340 It's a D.C.-based media company that employs people like Matt Iglesias.

00:06:12.660 They say, we make a positive, combative case for liberalism, and Verisite is their offshoot

00:06:19.200 of the polling firm.

00:06:20.540 So this is not an objective poll.

00:06:24.460 You can be a partisan outlet like Fox and have an objecting polling outlet.

00:06:29.080 Fox does.

00:06:29.840 They have really good pollsters.

00:06:31.180 Doesn't sound like this is it.

00:06:32.400 But in any event, what do you make of Bloop, like she's beating J.D. Vance in a head-to-head 0.89

00:06:38.880 matchup?

00:06:39.440 And what does it tell us about whether she's likely to run?

00:06:43.020 You know, I've been doing journalism for 20 years now.

00:06:46.020 I've been paying, as a result, very close attention to politics, and it's a passion of

00:06:51.080 mine.

00:06:51.260 It's something I really love.

00:06:52.440 The very first thing that ever made me have, like, even a glimmer of wanting to turn away

00:06:58.060 is the way in which Democrats have decided that because it worked for Trump, they're

00:07:02.400 now supposed to be, you know, kind of, like, loose with their language and show how cool

00:07:08.240 they are and how they don't speak like D.C. politicians.

00:07:11.460 They have all these consultants advising them on what to do.

00:07:15.240 And AOC is a particularly horrible case of it because, you know, when she was elected,

00:07:20.180 she was 27.

00:07:21.180 It's like a very young generation.

00:07:22.740 She's now, like, heading into her mid to late 30s, heading into 40 years old.

00:07:28.520 And she's still trying on top of, like, that really cringy Democratic effort to sound, you 0.99

00:07:34.340 know, like, playful and relatable and cool to kind of have it infused with this very young

00:07:40.160 internet jargon.

00:07:42.540 And it's just the worst of all combinations.

00:07:45.720 And I also don't understand why, if you are, you know, like a liberal outlet, which, of course,

00:07:51.680 this is trying to produce polling numbers that suggest that someone who has no chance to

00:07:56.260 be president could actually credibly run when it seems so counterproductive.

00:08:01.980 Like, why would you want to build up somebody with a fake poll who you know will get destroyed?

00:08:06.940 So it just the whole thing seems so bizarre to me.

00:08:10.500 It's very true.

00:08:11.860 So she came out today and she was asked about it by Pablo Manriquez.

00:08:18.200 And listen to what she said.

00:08:20.200 This is from yesterday.

00:08:21.300 Just hit this morning.

00:08:22.440 Watch.

00:08:23.540 Do you think that you'll beat, that you could beat J.D.

00:08:25.260 Vance in a head-to-head race for president, as polling suggests in 2028?

00:08:29.180 Listen, these polls, like, three years out are, you know, they are what they are.

00:08:34.380 But let the record show, I would stomp him. 0.95

00:08:38.640 I would stomp him. 0.83

00:08:40.160 Thank you, Congresswoman. 0.86

00:08:41.360 I would stomp him, to your point, Glenn.

00:08:46.360 That's what I mean, Megan.

00:08:47.620 If I really have to continue to watch Democrats behaving in this manner, I don't know if I

00:08:52.940 can take it.

00:08:53.620 Like, for as much as I love the work, it might actually make me just go in and want to, like,

00:08:57.980 open a car dealership or something.

00:08:59.580 Because, you know, it would be one thing of, like, that's really how she were, that were

00:09:03.060 really her personality.

00:09:04.380 She actually doesn't even have a personality. 1.00

00:09:07.100 Everything is just so contrived with her.

00:09:09.520 It is contrived.

00:09:09.920 Like, was that funny at all?

00:09:11.220 Was that, was there anything, you know, like, just smooth about that?

00:09:15.620 You know, it's just, I think that is the main problem is, is, is Democrats, the big problem

00:09:20.560 that Democrats have is they stand for nothing.

00:09:22.240 And if you don't even have a personality, it's very hard to convince people that you actually

00:09:26.200 have a substantive set of beliefs as well.

00:09:28.480 Like, even if you're, even if your personality is fake.

00:09:31.500 It wasn't clever.

00:09:32.320 It wasn't smart.

00:09:33.400 It wasn't strong.

00:09:33.700 But she thought it was.

00:09:34.660 She was so pleased with herself.

00:09:37.220 Wait, what did you say?

00:09:38.040 Do we have a response to it?

00:09:39.000 We have a response to the video?

00:09:41.940 Oh, oh, okay.

00:09:43.160 Stand by.

00:09:43.720 Hold on.

00:09:44.200 My, my team's always giving me the latest, which I appreciate.

00:09:46.700 David Axelrod.

00:09:48.680 Oh, God.

00:09:50.680 He tweeted out, he tweeted out, AOC has something you can't teach.

00:09:55.420 I mean, I think we can agree on that.

00:09:57.820 What, what that thing is, we probably disagree on.

00:10:00.820 I mean, here's my take on it, Glenn.

00:10:03.360 She is all performative emotion, very little substance. 0.75

00:10:09.600 And J.D. Vance is literally the opposite.

00:10:12.360 He's got no performative emotion.

00:10:14.060 He's extremely measured.

00:10:16.080 Frankly, as, as a lot of kids who grow up in alcoholic or drug-addled households can be,

00:10:22.700 like, one of the things they learn is to, like, tamp down emotions.

00:10:25.940 They're like Presbyterians. 0.99

00:10:26.940 I'm married to one, so I can make the Presbyterian jokes. 0.92

00:10:30.080 But they're, they, they are emotionally regulated because you can only have one explosive personality

00:10:36.680 in the house.

00:10:38.060 And most kids born to drug addicts, like J.D. Vance was, she wasn't a drug addict when

00:10:42.500 he was born, but his whole life.

00:10:44.120 They don't have, they're not prone to overly emotional outbursts like AOC is.

00:10:50.960 And so, honestly, if you actually think it through, like her out on the trail with her

00:10:55.480 screaming, there's so many videos of her screaming at the crowds.

00:10:59.960 None of J.D. ever performing that way.

00:11:03.300 He's clever.

00:11:04.280 He's measured.

00:11:05.040 He's funny, but he's always substantive. 0.59

00:11:07.240 He would eviscerate her.

00:11:09.140 It would be like a surgeon with a scalpel against, like, a fish flopping on the deck, unable to 0.81

00:11:15.580 control its last few moments.

00:11:16.980 For a long time, I think the way people thought, who were Republicans on the right side, right

00:11:23.080 wing side of media, was to talk about her as though she was some sort of radical, like

00:11:27.340 some sort of far left dissident, some sort of extremist.

00:11:31.460 And the first person who actually understood what AOC really is was Marjorie Taylor Greene,

00:11:37.880 who never attacked her as a radical, but always attacked her as a fraud.

00:11:42.100 Somebody who was actually really nothing more than this empty careerist, this Democratic

00:11:46.640 Party partisan.

00:11:48.080 She had like a little bit of flavoring of trying to sound like more on the left wing 1.00

00:11:52.360 side of the Democratic Party.

00:11:54.360 But very quickly, she just morphed into a Democratic Party operative.

00:11:59.960 And that's all she really is.

00:12:01.340 So whatever else is unique about her is just pure show.

00:12:05.220 It's like a theater kid sort of behavior that draws attention to herself.

00:12:10.340 But it's not because of any interesting or compelling or substantive ideas.

00:12:13.900 She's really there is nothing radical about her unless you just think that ordinary Democratic

00:12:17.860 Party politics is radical.

00:12:19.280 And then on the J.D. Vance side, I always wondered about J.D. Vance's ability to be a compelling

00:12:25.700 politician because of that lack of kind of overt charisma.

00:12:30.240 And the thing that really convinced me that I don't think it'll ever be, obviously, in comparison

00:12:34.680 to Trump, that it's almost like a bar too high for anybody or even like Obama or Clinton,

00:12:39.580 like the great politicians, he doesn't have that.

00:12:42.080 But when he debated Tim Waltz and he was able to modulate how he was speaking and conducting

00:12:50.360 himself while at the same time being uncompromising on his views, knowing that it was America's

00:12:54.880 really first impression of him.

00:12:57.320 And it was a very kind of, you know, kind of sandpaper, the sharp edges off and the ability

00:13:02.140 to do that for 90 minutes, no matter how much they're trying to provoke you, while at

00:13:05.700 the same time delivering your message effectively.

00:13:07.360 And I think the more he's on the national stage, the better he's going to get.

00:13:10.900 No Democrat, I promise you, wants 2028 to be J.D. Vance versus AOC, no matter how much

00:13:16.740 AOC is doing her little fake dances for journalists when asked.

00:13:20.920 I coined the term congressional Kardashian.

00:13:25.440 That's what she is.

00:13:26.360 She's a congressional Kardashian.

00:13:29.140 And I will say this.

00:13:30.320 I just saw J.D. Vance.

00:13:31.280 I told the audience about this earlier this week.

00:13:33.280 I saw him last weekend.

00:13:34.240 And can I tell you, Glenn, he's gotten a lot better at the—like, he always had charisma,

00:13:39.620 but, like, I think he put up a wall.

00:13:41.500 You know, I've known him for a long time.

00:13:42.800 He put up more of a wall.

00:13:43.780 He wasn't really ready to let you in when he was younger.

00:13:46.400 He was more defensive.

00:13:48.040 Obviously, I'm a member of the press, so we're used to people being defensive toward us.

00:13:51.620 Their instincts are dead on.

00:13:53.200 And—but he is totally different now.

00:13:56.000 I have to tell you, like, he worked that room like Bill Clinton.

00:13:59.860 He, like, remembered everybody's names.

00:14:02.840 He said the information back to them.

00:14:04.720 He was inquiring about people's children by name.

00:14:06.960 He was looking right at everybody.

00:14:08.840 He was making everyone feel like they were special in not an artificial way, not like

00:14:13.220 an Obama kind of way, but like a real—like a talent, like a political talent.

00:14:18.900 And I think he's grown into that.

00:14:20.380 And so my number one thought in watching him was he's using this vice presidency not just

00:14:26.180 to help the nation, but to help his own political skills.

00:14:29.000 He's clearly sharpened them.

00:14:31.760 Well, and I think also, you know, we have to remember that he is still quite young, and

00:14:37.520 he has had a lot of very kind of contradictory impulses, right?

00:14:40.740 Like he grew up as, you know, in the way that you described, but like a very, you know,

00:14:44.540 familiar now, like working-class family with addiction and all kinds of family problems.

00:14:49.160 And then suddenly he's in Ivy League schools, and he's with Peter Thiel, and he's, you

00:14:54.340 know, in high finance in Silicon Valley, hating Donald Trump.

00:14:58.380 And then he starts, you know, evolving politically as well.

00:15:01.460 And sometimes it just takes a while in life to find yourself, like to feel comfortable with

00:15:05.400 who you are, to really have a good sense of self-possession.

00:15:09.080 And that can take, you know, into your 30s or early 40s, which is where J.D.

00:15:13.260 Vance is in life.

00:15:14.240 And I don't think that's a very uncommon evolution.

00:15:17.180 And I do think that you can see a kind of greater comfort in J.D.

00:15:21.980 Vance's own skin the more he kind of becomes convinced about the values he wants to pursue

00:15:27.800 and the things he believes in.

00:15:29.900 I still think it's going to take a lot of work, given that people do have suspicions

00:15:33.480 when somebody has had so many different kinds of manifestations of who they are and what they

00:15:38.360 believe.

00:15:38.780 But he's obviously very skilled at expressing himself and at communicating.

00:15:44.340 And he has a lot of time to build that trust that the public needs.

00:15:48.480 Well, it'd be very interesting, too, to see him up against an AOC when they start talking

00:15:53.220 about their personal backgrounds, because AOC wants us to believe that she grew up the way

00:15:59.560 J.D.

00:15:59.920 Vance actually did.

00:16:01.400 You know, like she had it rough.

00:16:03.400 She came she knows poverty.

00:16:05.780 She could barely get food onto the table like these are lies. 1.00

00:16:10.320 It's bullshit. 1.00

00:16:11.300 And J.D. 1.00

00:16:12.280 Vance's history is actually extremely tumultuous.

00:16:15.700 Middletown, Ohio, is a working class neighborhood when he grew up in it.

00:16:19.640 It wasn't like he was not going to eat, but he did have Pepsi in his baby bottle.

00:16:23.880 I mean, he grew up in a way that is really not great and slept in his jeans.

00:16:29.400 You know, read Hillbilly Elegy.

00:16:30.440 He writes about how when he was at Yale Law School, he went to a party that they offered

00:16:35.240 and like he didn't even understand.

00:16:37.500 I think it was I'm trying to remember the analogy, but like they offered him maybe like

00:16:40.680 Chardonnay.

00:16:41.380 He had no idea what they were talking about.

00:16:43.760 He did not understand the silverware on the plates, you know, next to the plates.

00:16:48.460 He really came from nothing and miss, you know, literally saying I could barely put food

00:16:56.160 on the table.

00:16:57.380 That was all lies.

00:16:58.760 She grew up in Yorktown Heights, which is a lovely suburb of Westchester.

00:17:02.820 She lived in the Bronx for about two minutes.

00:17:05.760 So just from that standpoint, it would be fun to watch them on the, you know, destitution

00:17:10.780 derby that these politicians always engage in.

00:17:13.740 Well, and also like, you know, she plays out that bartender thing, like being a bartender 1.00

00:17:17.800 in Manhattan is not exactly like being on the factory line in the middle of like some, you

00:17:23.100 know, Michigan assembly line.

00:17:25.280 The way she likes to pretend it is, you know, like in your mid twenties, you're a bartender. 0.59

00:17:29.000 Most people consider that, you know, quite fun.

00:17:31.340 Um, I think like, but I think like the Donald Trump, uh, appeal makes like illustrates a

00:17:38.520 really important point.

00:17:39.500 I mean, Donald Trump didn't grow up poor.

00:17:41.040 His, his, you know, father was, was quite wealthy.

00:17:43.940 He was a real estate developer who was quite wealthy.

00:17:46.320 Nonetheless, the way in which he was kind of a real estate developer, you know, they lived

00:17:50.340 in Queens, the real estate that they had was not very glamorous.

00:17:55.180 And Trump was always looking at Manhattan and seeing this kind of, you know, glamor that

00:18:00.780 he didn't have.

00:18:01.820 And when he got to Manhattan, he was always looked down upon because he came from the outer

00:18:06.920 borough in Queens.

00:18:07.520 You need to live in New York to really understand that socioeconomic dynamic of how people in

00:18:11.080 Manhattan look at the outer boroughs.

00:18:12.500 And that did develop in Donald Trump, this genuine outsider resentment and mentality that

00:18:18.900 I think is almost a prerequisite to being a popular politician in, in the United States

00:18:23.320 and even in the broader West, because of how much contempt people have for, for the elite

00:18:28.280 class.

00:18:28.700 And if you seem like you're too comfortable within, or that you really are more identified

00:18:35.360 with that elite class and that you don't have that genuine outsider mentality, I think a

00:18:41.400 lot of people are going to sniff that out and, and immediately kind of reject you.

00:18:45.160 I think it was Kamala Harris's big problem. 1.00

00:18:46.940 You know, I think I said on your show before, she always reminds me of somebody who just came

00:18:50.540 out of like a board of directors meeting at like a health insurance company where she's

00:18:55.000 the general counsel, you know, like there's absolutely everything about her reeks of like

00:19:00.160 insider establishment comfort.

00:19:02.900 And if you're JD Vance, no matter how you end up and, you know, I had a working class background

00:19:07.560 as well.

00:19:08.100 I'm not comparing it to JD Vance's, but there's always a part of you, you know, it's

00:19:11.380 always something that you feel.

00:19:12.560 There's always a little bit of resentment in you that you grew up in a certain way and

00:19:15.900 didn't have things that most other, that a lot of people, other people had.

00:19:19.140 And I think that is a prerequisite for, for being successful in American politics, given

00:19:23.680 how much the establishment is hated in general.

00:19:26.380 All right.

00:19:26.900 Speaking of the Democrat HR meeting that Kamala Harris just walked out of, there's a headline

00:19:31.940 that just broke before air by Shane Goldmacher in the New York times.

00:19:35.340 The DNC is scrapping its report on what went wrong in 2024.

00:19:39.520 Glenn, listen to this.

00:19:41.860 It's killing its autopsy of the 2024 election.

00:19:45.700 Ken Martin, the chairman of the DNC, said on Thursday he had decided not to publish a

00:19:49.400 report.

00:19:49.780 So the report exists that he ordered months ago into what went wrong for the Dems last

00:19:54.740 year.

00:19:55.540 Party officials have conducted more than 300 interviews with Democrats in all 50 states

00:20:00.040 to create a document that Mr. Martin had once pitched as crucial to charting a path forward.

00:20:06.420 Mr. Martin will instead keep the findings under seal, saying he believes the following.

00:20:12.640 Here's our North Star.

00:20:14.180 Does this help us win?

00:20:16.020 If the answer is no, it's a distraction from the core mission.

00:20:20.600 So we don't get to know.

00:20:23.440 He knows, but they don't want to release it to the public.

00:20:26.220 And my only thought on this is, does it read at the top? 0.99

00:20:30.520 Kamala Harris is a shitty candidate. 1.00

00:20:33.280 And he's like, holy shit, our entire base is black women who love her, but they're not 1.00

00:20:38.460 enough to get us over the top. 1.00

00:20:39.720 We cannot put that out.

00:20:42.280 They really have dug their own grave.

00:20:45.200 And it was so obvious in 2024 what that grave was, which was they were between, you know,

00:20:51.700 they were faced with two awful choices.

00:20:53.320 Either they went with Kamala Harris, who they, you know, everybody, it was a consensus until

00:20:59.340 the day she became the nominee that she was one of the all-time worst politicians. 1.00

00:21:03.400 Every time she opened her mouth, she embarrassed herself.

00:21:06.480 Everybody understood that.

00:21:07.660 Everybody knew that.

00:21:08.760 Her 2020 campaign was a complete disaster.

00:21:11.460 She had every advantage and it couldn't even make it to the first primary. 0.99

00:21:14.860 And then, of course, soon as she becomes a nominee, everybody just in the media comes

00:21:18.560 together and says, oh, no, this is one of the most exciting candidates ever.

00:21:21.440 Look, Charlie X or XC or whoever is like Brat Summer. 0.92

00:21:26.000 And this was going to, you know, take her over the line of victory.

00:21:30.140 But everyone in the Democratic Party knew she was a terrible candidate. 0.95

00:21:33.600 The problem was they couldn't pass over her, even though she was second in line, because

00:21:38.180 black women are an important part of their base. 1.00

00:21:41.160 And there'd be a lot of anger and a lot of resentment had they said gone to Calvin Newsome

00:21:46.480 or some white man with whom they had a better chance of winning.

00:21:50.280 Glenn, what's so amazing is, so they took their medicine, they held their noses, and

00:21:55.240 they swallowed their medicine like good boys and girls.

00:21:58.700 And now she's back. 0.99

00:22:01.160 She's not grateful that like, okay, we gave, she's like, yo, bitches, you only gave me 107 1.00

00:22:07.920 days. 0.96

00:22:08.400 Because listen to what she said on a podcast this week, SOT30.

00:22:14.480 You have said in previous interviews, your focus is on 2026.

00:22:19.520 You're not talking about 2028 yet.

00:22:21.480 But, you know, I have to ask you, are you thinking about 2028?

00:22:25.260 Do you feel like you have unfinished business that you want to do?

00:22:29.600 You can always break news on at our table.

00:22:33.340 We'd love to have that.

00:22:35.060 I have not made any decisions about that.

00:22:36.860 Yeah, well, if you do make a decision, and whatever the decision that you make, there

00:22:44.180 are going to be millions of people who will support you with whatever you want to do.

00:22:48.120 There's so much love for you.

00:22:49.760 And you're seeing it on your book tour.

00:22:52.580 So she didn't even downplay it.

00:22:54.580 She was like, haven't made a decision.

00:22:56.540 Like that is leaving the door as wide open as one possibly can without saying, obviously

00:23:02.680 I'm doing it, Jamie.

00:23:03.760 I would bet any amount of money she's running. 1.00

00:23:07.420 And first of all, when she decided not to run for governor in 2026, meaning like that

00:23:11.700 office is beneath her, that was already an announcement that she's running in 2028. 1.00

00:23:17.300 She certainly doesn't intend to disappear from political life. 1.00

00:23:21.360 That's for sure.

00:23:22.500 But the whole point of her book, starting with the title, as you just alluded to, was that

00:23:29.140 their only reason I lost was not because I'm a terrible candidate, because I stood for

00:23:33.660 nothing, because people don't really want to hear me speaking, because they don't trust

00:23:37.320 me, because I have no charisma.

00:23:39.080 No, it was because I only had 107 days.

00:23:42.480 And so if that really is in your mind, the reason you lost, which of course, in her mind

00:23:47.460 it is, of course, you're going to then think, oh, but if I get to be the nominee, but this

00:23:51.820 time with a normal amount of time, I'm going to roll over everybody.

00:23:54.980 And I'm sure that's what she's convinced of.

00:23:58.460 And, you know, again, going back to that problem that Democrats have, if Kamala Harris wants 1.00

00:24:02.160 to be the nominee, there's going to be a lot of people on whom that party depends who believe

00:24:08.440 that it is her entitlement.

00:24:10.480 And if she doesn't get it, there's going to be a lot of concern that those people are

00:24:14.700 going to be so angry that they're going to stay at home and the Democrats can't win

00:24:17.980 again with Kamala Harris or without the people who are going to be alienated if she's not the 0.99

00:24:22.600 nominee.

00:24:23.680 It's amazing.

00:24:24.560 This is like, how lucky can the Republicans be?

00:24:28.260 She won't go away.

00:24:29.720 She really believes she can do it.

00:24:31.580 And you're right, girl. 0.93

00:24:32.860 Do not let them crap on you. 0.96

00:24:34.880 You come back. 0.91

00:24:35.500 It was the 100 and 7.

00:24:36.520 If you had 108, could have had a different result.

00:24:39.380 You get in there and you fight.

00:24:40.640 You fight for your right to rule the party.

00:24:44.180 All right.

00:24:44.600 I want to keep going.

00:24:45.640 Staying on hard news before we get to the really fun stuff, which I'm looking forward 0.96

00:24:48.800 to, we got to talk about Brown University and the shit show that is the police situation 0.97

00:24:54.280 there. 0.98

00:24:55.100 Um, here's the one piece of good news.

00:24:57.900 They are saying now that they have DNA from the scene, like the killer's DNA.

00:25:03.600 They said for the first time yesterday that, um, they have some DNA on, uh, shell casings.

00:25:10.540 Chief Perez said, told reporters that they have it, uh, a law enforcement official familiar

00:25:16.520 with the case who spoke on condition of anonymity also said that the DNA as well as fingerprints

00:25:21.600 came from the shell casings.

00:25:22.820 He just told reporters that they have DNA.

00:25:25.960 That's what the chief said.

00:25:26.860 And then on background, somebody else added it.

00:25:28.720 It's on the, uh, shell casings, which is great.

00:25:32.520 If that's true, uh, that's huge, huge.

00:25:35.440 A Fox news on Wednesday asked, uh, chief Perez, whether investigators were able to find live

00:25:40.280 ammo on the scene.

00:25:41.520 And he said, investigators were able to get physical evidence.

00:25:44.280 Oh yeah.

00:25:44.660 We seized a few physical evidence.

00:25:47.540 This is his, these are his words.

00:25:49.080 And we're in the process of examining that evidence.

00:25:51.040 And yes, we have some DNA that we manipulated.

00:25:53.420 So it just progresses every day.

00:25:55.100 And so what that means is that, um, they're now going to run that through the federal database

00:26:01.780 of perps who are already in the system and see if there are any matches.

00:26:07.160 And if there aren't, then they're going to bring in a genetic genealogist, like a CC Moore

00:26:12.800 who can take whatever DNA relational hit they might get, because, you know, if I commit a

00:26:20.660 crime, but I'm not in the, I think it's called CODIS, the system that they have, they're not

00:26:25.760 going to have a match, but they might, if like my fourth cousin twice removed, if their DNA is in

00:26:32.580 there, they might say, oh, this, the killer's fourth cousin twice removed is in here. And then

00:26:38.120 you have a genetic genealogy come in here and like map out that person's whole family tree,

00:26:43.820 start figuring it out. It's, it's investigative work and figure out like who could have been at

00:26:48.900 Brown university on Saturday, December X and so on. So I do think it's great news that they have DNA

00:26:54.640 and that hopefully will help us get a name and solve it. However, if you have doubts, you are more

00:27:00.760 than entitled because they really don't know what they're doing out there. They announced yesterday

00:27:06.780 made clear, they haven't even interviewed all the students who were in the classroom where the

00:27:16.520 shooting took place. They announced that it was a review course for an exam. So we're not sure who

00:27:24.520 showed up and who didn't. What you, why wouldn't you just go to all students who take the class

00:27:31.400 door by door and interview all of them? Why is it like, gee, I don't know. Listen here to top five.

00:27:38.520 You know, this explained to us, uh, five days later, how many students were in that classroom?

00:27:44.100 Can you now say how many kids were in that classroom into the gunman come in from the back? So these people

00:27:49.680 never knew it was coming or did he come in front with full view of everybody? And that's all part

00:27:55.700 of the interviews. And actually we're cooperating with Brown to get the roster. Uh, that was a

00:28:00.020 study hall. So we don't have the number. We're still getting, uh, information as far as who was

00:28:03.900 there. I know Brown sent out a, an email, uh, to the students to notify us if they were present

00:28:09.760 and we're still getting that. So I can't give you an exact account now. Well, Brown sent out an email,

00:28:14.720 Glenn. So they're on it. I think what's amazing here, Megan, is that, I mean, you know, any human

00:28:22.140 institution, no matter how capable you think it is, is going to have incompetence is going to have

00:28:26.880 mistakes is going to have failures. And obviously that includes the police and investigators. They

00:28:32.000 make mistakes all the time, but for a crime of this magnitude at one of our nation's top universities

00:28:38.180 for 11 people to have been shot, two of whom have been killed on, on campus where everything is

00:28:46.480 monitored. There are cameras everywhere, or at least there should be. It turns out apparently

00:28:50.620 that there aren't for whatever reasons that some, there's speculation about why when you see police

00:28:56.820 incompetence on this level, it really is. It's alarming. I think the other interesting aspect of it is,

00:29:03.840 because, you know, I've spent a lot of time in my work on things like mass surveillance and facial

00:29:09.540 recognition and all the ways that we might be surveilled. There's obviously real dangers to

00:29:14.300 having mass surveillance, but in a case like this, you kind of wish that police were able to trace

00:29:21.100 everybody's movements in a way that that's a lot easier. And it kind of points to this conflict that

00:29:26.480 we have. But I just, I think everybody finds it inconceivable, not that there's police incompetence,

00:29:32.600 but that on a case of this magnitude of this scale at, at a place like Brown, it looks like the

00:29:39.840 keystone cops. And it, and you really do start wondering why, like, is this just really how

00:29:46.340 incompetent they are? Or is there something about this case and like the university environment and

00:29:52.120 academia and all the values that we know prevail there that are causing impediments in, in the

00:29:58.680 investigation that's making this incompetence worse? I want like, it's amazing to me that they

00:30:03.580 have not yet interviewed all the students present, the immediate eyewitnesses to the shooting, not

00:30:08.780 only because they may have identifying information about the shooter, they may be able to actually

00:30:14.200 clarify what he yelled. Because so far, all we've heard is from that one TA who said to me, it was

00:30:19.520 incomprehensible. And to the students I know of, they couldn't understand what he was yelling either.

00:30:24.000 Maybe some other student has a different story. And maybe a lot of these students record prep

00:30:29.860 meetings. They have like one of those newfangled apps that everybody has on their phone who are

00:30:34.160 college students, Glenn, that where they record these things. And maybe one of those students has

00:30:39.200 a whole recording of it. Um, and the police just need to find them. Why wouldn't they get the full

00:30:44.780 roster of 200 students and in one day knock on all of their doors? This is so crazy. Oh, well,

00:30:50.580 they sent out an email. Oh, well, great. Okay. Terrific. Because the killer's on a loose.

00:30:54.600 So you might actually want to put pedal to the metal and get on this. Now there was another

00:30:58.220 sort of heated moment where the Providence mayor, who's really just the worst actor. I mean, he's,

00:31:04.080 there's a lot to choose from. The university president seems like a complete nimrod. Um, 1.00

00:31:08.140 not impressed at all with the police chief. Um, the AG is contradicting the, the Providence mayor,

00:31:15.020 but the Providence mayor is the worst. He is the worst. And he's the one who's like, 0.96

00:31:19.300 I don't think there's an ongoing threat. Why not? Well, cause no one's been shot since Saturday.

00:31:24.120 Oh, okay. Terrific. I'm sure we're fine then. Um, he was asked a question about the lack of cameras.

00:31:30.840 And I have heard this from multiple people who I know who are like in the area and asking these

00:31:35.620 same questions, whether the lack of cameras is somehow related to the fact that Providence is a

00:31:43.720 sanctuary city and, and whether there was an, a conscious decision to take down some of the

00:31:49.380 cameras or deactivate some of the cameras so as not to get alleged illegals, um, on camera in a way 0.90

00:31:55.820 that would be used by the feds or capturable by the feds. This guy's going to ask this question.

00:32:01.460 It's hard to understand him and I'm going to summarize it when we come back. So just take a

00:32:04.920 listen, see what you can glean. And then I'll clarify what his name, what he's asking. His name is

00:32:08.480 Chaz Kalanda, and he's speaking to the Providence mayor yesterday.

00:32:14.640 Sanctuary city law that we have, you don't want to recall illegal immigrants and you don't want 1.00

00:32:19.880 to provide the footage to the FBI or immigration authority. One camera and that will be, it come

00:32:26.120 out from your detectives. They are afraid of mine. They're angry at this investigation that these

00:32:30.740 people are running reversing. Put the camera off. They can identify that person. You imagine how the

00:32:36.020 family want to go through. We heard from both the Brown police chief and the provost of Brown who

00:32:45.500 have shared that they have been fully cooperative and shared, uh, been forthcoming with all, uh,

00:32:50.940 data and evidence that they have. Okay. But that doesn't answer the question. Just to reiterate what

00:32:55.860 the question was, cause we went back and verbatied it. Uh, we have a sanctuary city law here. You don't

00:33:01.000 want to record illegal immigrants and you don't want to provide the footage to the FBI or immigration

00:33:05.340 authorities, one camera. And now it's come out from your detectives. They're friends of mine.

00:33:10.200 They're angry at this investigation. These people at Brown university put the camera out. That's how

00:33:16.260 he phrased it. They can identify that person. You imagine how the family is going through what

00:33:22.120 they're going through. Tell the truth to the media, put the cameras open. So that was our best verbatied

00:33:27.060 it. He's suggesting that they turned off cameras. I've heard this from others on the scene that they

00:33:32.080 believe Brown, uh, Providence residents, that some of these cameras were intentionally turned off

00:33:36.740 for the very reasons that reporter stated your thoughts on it.

00:33:42.340 Here's the thing. So there's been a lot of speculation online about what happened at Brown and

00:33:47.760 also what happened with the killing that some people think might be related of this nuclear physicist

00:33:53.720 who, who was also killed, uh, at MIT in roughly this at MIT. Right. Exactly. Um, and a lot of the

00:34:02.000 speculation, some of it turned out to be false. Others of it turned out to be very unfounded.

00:34:07.780 And a lot of people are saying not unreasonably that one of the problems with this kind of online

00:34:13.400 sleuth thing is that it often leads to politically motivated speculation or things. Okay. I agree with

00:34:20.740 that. I do think that's an issue. The reason that happens though, is because of the inability or

00:34:26.580 refusal of people in power and in authorities to answer the most basic questions, to give us the

00:34:32.760 most basic information about a crime that of course is a great concern to a huge numbers of people and

00:34:38.380 ought to be. And it's in that vacuum of like this evasive kind of answer, this refusal to give any kind

00:34:46.280 of, to be accountable in any way that citizens start thinking we can't trust the police. We can't

00:34:51.600 trust investigators. They, they lied to us. They they're incompetent. They cover things up. And this

00:34:57.060 is why you see so much of this kind of doubting, like with the Charlie Kirk shooting or with any kind

00:35:03.020 of crime, any kind of major event where people no longer trust institutions of authority. And I think

00:35:08.040 in that exchange, you see the reason, like, if that's the reason they turned off the cameras say,

00:35:12.460 so where the cameras turned off, like, why can't you just give straight answers on that? And when

00:35:17.040 we don't get those, that people start thinking we have to figure out on our own and we can't trust

00:35:21.560 the information we're being given. And although it can be a problem because it leads to false

00:35:25.760 speculation that spreads like wildfire, it's also the fault of the people who are supposed to be

00:35:31.520 exercising this power responsibly when they, when they, when they do things that make the other

00:35:35.620 people lose trust in what they're saying. All right. I want to keep going. There's a lot

00:35:40.040 of news to get to. Uh, speaking of lack of trust, the FBI has been suffering that for many years now.

00:35:47.520 And the two people at the top of it under Trump are of course, Kash Patel and Dan Bongino,

00:35:51.660 who I think most Republicans, I mean, maybe not the establishment types, but most MAGA faithful

00:35:56.940 supported going into those two top roles. And then there was some real questioning after the

00:36:03.760 Epstein debacle, both when the pair of them went on with Maria Bartiromo and said, they believe Epstein

00:36:10.720 did kill himself and that there wasn't a murder. And you just had to look at the tape from the prison

00:36:16.520 cell. And then even the left-wing media started to challenge that. Uh, so there was a real crisis

00:36:22.460 of confidence. Then Dan Bongino threatened to quit, uh, over his blowout with Pam Bondi, but he didn't

00:36:29.380 quit. He stayed and it's been a tumultuous nine, 10 months. I think it's fair to say, even for two guys

00:36:37.500 who had previously been trusted by MAGA, but there's no question there's been an erosion of that since

00:36:42.800 they went on the inside, you know, as can happen, especially when you go to an organization that

00:36:46.860 distrusted. Now we get news that Dan Bongino is stepping down. Uh, he sent out a tweet yesterday. I

00:36:53.640 think he said effective early January. So he did not make it a year. And, um, now he's already getting

00:37:02.320 some blowback. This is what the left is saying, but this is the reason I'm playing. This is you're

00:37:09.660 also hearing this online from some on the right, which is kind of telling because I love Bongino and

00:37:16.580 I've been kind of taken aback at like the, I don't know that this, the shift in opinion by some,

00:37:22.880 even on the right. But here's Nicole Wallace, uh, with her two cent take. 1.00

00:37:29.540 This guy is a freaking joke. He wears t-shirts that are obviously too small. And he went on Fox 0.92

00:37:36.220 news and complained about how long the workday is as the number two at the FBI. The FBI is you two

00:37:41.720 know better than anyone protects children from child sex traffickers. Um, and on that topic,

00:37:47.440 Dan Bongino had a successful podcast in part because he peddled conspiracy theories

00:37:52.240 about Jeffrey Epstein and then got to the FBI and let Pam Bonney roll over him when they decided

00:37:57.660 to cover up the files. Cause Donald Trump's name is in them. A fact confirmed by Susie Wiles this week

00:38:02.560 in 11 on the record interviews with Chris Whipple. I want to know if either of you can speak to the

00:38:07.700 lasting damage or the danger that we're in because a guy that is a joke was the number two at the FBI.

00:38:14.120 Okay. First of all, they did not let Pam Bonney roll over them. She's their boss. The FBI is not

00:38:21.260 an independent agency that doesn't answer to anybody. They answer to Pam Bonney. If Pam Bonney 0.55

00:38:25.660 directs the strategy that we're not releasing anything more on the FBI, on the Epstein's file,

00:38:31.000 then that is what Cash and Dan had to do. I'm sorry that they were very outspoken on Epstein beforehand,

00:38:37.900 but like to pretend that they had independent autonomy when DOJ, and frankly, let's face it,

00:38:43.720 it must've been Trump's call, made a call is to ignore reality. However, I'm going to give you one

00:38:49.420 more soundbite, Glenn, and it is the moment she referenced when Dan went on Fox in May of 2025,

00:38:57.200 SOT 20C.

00:38:57.980 I gave up everything for this. I mean, you know, my wife is struggling and I'm not a victim. I'm not

00:39:06.520 Jim Comey. It's fine. I did this and I'm proud I did it. But if you think we're there for tea and

00:39:11.300 crumpets, well, I mean, Cash is there all day. We share it. Our offices are linked. He turns on

00:39:17.060 the faucet. I hear it. He's there at, he gets in like six o'clock in the morning. He doesn't leave

00:39:21.520 till seven at night. You know, I'm in there at seven 30 in the morning. I, you know, he uses the gym.

00:39:26.800 I work out in my apartment, but I stare at these four walls all day in DC, you know, by myself,

00:39:32.820 divorced from my wife, not divorced, but I mean, separated, divorced. And it's hard. I mean,

00:39:37.060 you know, we love each other and it's hard to be a part.

00:39:40.440 So she mocked him for it. Many did. But to me, that explains why he's leaving. I mean,

00:39:45.020 there's a thankless job where he's losing support, even amongst some MAGA faithful because of the

00:39:49.600 nature of the FBI and what I said with Epstein, even though I think Dan was very opposed to how it

00:39:53.580 was handled by Bondi. And, um, I'm sure he, I haven't talked to him, but I'm sure he's like,

00:39:59.400 this is a fucking thankless job. I'm out of here. I want to go back to my family, my wife 0.98

00:40:04.220 and my podcast. So my question to you is, can he do that now? Given some of those issues that,

00:40:11.580 that I just highlighted.

00:40:12.360 I don't know if people realize, you know, Dan, Dan Bongino, uh, is had his podcast on rumble where

00:40:19.080 he's also, um, uh, a major investor. And that podcast was, I mean, the call to success is to

00:40:28.020 wildly understate the case. He was making enormous amounts of money. He had a massive audience of

00:40:35.520 people unbelievably loyal to him and loyal to him because of how much trust they had, they had in

00:40:42.360 him. And one of the reasons they had so much trust in him was because he was such a emphatic

00:40:48.660 critic of the deep state of these organizations. And among the things he was telling them was that

00:40:56.000 the U S government was concealing the Epstein files because it was trying to protect the world's

00:41:03.840 most powerful people from being exposed as child predators because they know that Jeffrey Epstein

00:41:09.220 didn't kill himself. And because Jeffrey Epstein had blackmail power over all these people and were

00:41:15.780 therefore forcing them to keep these, these files concealed. This was not an ancillary issue for Dan

00:41:21.140 Bongino. This was something he talked about over and over and over. And then also other things as well,

00:41:26.480 you know, like the, the, the guy who killed Trump and all the stuff that supposedly was being covered up

00:41:30.900 about that. None of which is, has been released under the FBI's leadership. And so when you then

00:41:37.640 months into Dan Bongino stint, watch him go on Fox and obviously in a very uncomfortable way, say

00:41:43.620 we found no evidence of blackmail. We don't think it's appropriate to release these files.

00:41:48.280 Please trust us when we tell you that he'd absolutely killed himself. Obviously the people

00:41:53.120 who have been listening to Dan Bongino for all these years and believing that this was like one of the

00:41:57.520 very few people who they could trust turn around. And in an instant, soon as they're inside abandoned,

00:42:03.800 so many of the core beliefs that they had been insisting were true is obviously going to erode

00:42:10.220 your, the, the, the confidence and trust that, that people have in you. And I also think one of the

00:42:16.160 things that it's worth remembering, you know, we all have talents and we all have talents, which means

00:42:21.900 we're not talented at everything. Usually we're all talented at something. And it's important to be

00:42:26.700 humble enough to realize that because you succeed in one thing, doesn't mean you can succeed in

00:42:30.760 something and anything else. Dan Bongino is a very effective outsider, like a very effective

00:42:35.880 critic. He brings people along with him running the FBI is an entirely different skillset. And I think

00:42:45.380 a lot of people in, in, in the MAGA movement, because of how validly, uh, critical they were of

00:42:51.260 these institutions decided that the people who are there for their whole career, who have the quote

00:42:55.740 unquote expertise all need to be thrown out. And I totally understand that in part even agree with

00:43:00.840 it, but it doesn't mean that you can just pop up some, some guy who's a very talented podcaster

00:43:05.680 and put him in this like administrative job that he obviously doesn't want to be in like, sorry,

00:43:10.680 but getting to work at seven 30 and leaving at seven o'clock inside an office, that is not exactly

00:43:15.980 uncommon. That's not a backbreaking job. That's the experience of most Americans. Like you go out to

00:43:21.080 your office, you're separated from your family, your kids, because you're working like Dan Bongino

00:43:25.480 made it sound like, you know, he was like carrying the cross of, uh, of the crucifix on, on his back

00:43:30.360 for days. And I just think it kind of illustrates that humility is needed, like to realize what you're

00:43:36.640 good at and what you're not. So I think, I think he didn't really want to do it. That's what I think.

00:43:43.020 I think he didn't really want to do this, but he, I'm guessing here, I haven't talked to anybody

00:43:47.540 about this, but I'm guessing that Trump thought he'd be the perfect person to do it. He and cash

00:43:50.700 because they'd been so critical of the FBI. So he found FBI critics to come in so that the MAGA

00:43:56.560 base would, would trust the new leadership. But then I think neither one of them fully appreciated,

00:44:02.940 just like they didn't appreciate over at HHS or DHS or DOJ. The fact that these organizations are

00:44:10.240 completely replete with leftists and it's very freaking hard to change the culture, to change

00:44:17.940 the, the motion, the forward motion of these things in a leftist direction, just because you

00:44:23.260 have leadership, that's different there though. They're, they're trying, they're definitely trying.

00:44:27.620 And so I've, I've felt very much for both of them. And I will say this at, I think really the

00:44:33.220 catching of the January 6th, the pipe bomber, you know, assuming this is the guy, uh, which so far,

00:44:37.780 I believe it is, was huge. Like, I almost feel like if you're Dan Bongino, you can say, you know

00:44:42.280 what? It was divine right order. Like they put me in there because it seems like he really spearheaded

00:44:46.940 that. I did something that really mattered. Who knows what this guy was capable of? What if he had

00:44:51.500 tried to bomb something else? And maybe he saved lives. You know, maybe he was there at that time,

00:44:56.660 which was another one of his quote unquote conspiracy theories. I'm not citing you there, but like

00:45:01.160 another thing that people point to and he pushed it and he wanted January 6th pipe bomber found and he

00:45:06.420 found him. And maybe Dan just said, you know what? I did something that really mattered.

00:45:11.180 You know, I, I let cops be cops again, as he in cash keeps saying, and now I just want to get back

00:45:15.760 to, as you point out the thing that I'm great at and my family and government service is not for me.

00:45:22.520 Yeah. Let me, let me just say one thing though, to, to, and it's not really like disagreeing per se,

00:45:27.020 but I think just for me, at least a more way, precise way to explain it. I don't think these

00:45:31.660 institutions are filled with what I would call leftists. Like I've never met a leftist who says

00:45:36.240 my goal is to go work at the FBI or become like a CIA operative. I think what these people are,

00:45:41.880 are more like establishment operatives. They're like institutionalists. These are people who want

00:45:47.820 to protect the permanent power faction in Washington. That's really not subject to elections. And you can

00:45:53.080 put people at the top who are determined to kind of blow it all up, but you know, being at the top

00:45:59.980 doesn't mean that the entire infrastructure under you that's been cultivated for decades. And these

00:46:04.800 people are inculcated about how these institutions should work. They can easily resist, you know,

00:46:11.420 the comings and goings of politicians. Every American president has discovered that,

00:46:15.520 that there's this huge part of Washington that they nominally control, but that, that don't,

00:46:19.460 they don't really have any ability to change at all, no matter how much they want to. And I bet you,

00:46:25.100 that was also part of Dan Bongino's frustration is you can get in there and say, okay,

00:46:29.220 we're in control. Now we're going to fix this institution. And yet, you know, you can't just

00:46:33.460 get rid of the entire FBI. There's experienced, you know, operatives in there and investigators,

00:46:38.200 and they have like an ideology about how things should be done. And they're not going to just

00:46:42.280 instantly give up the power that they have and the ideology that they've been trained to have

00:46:46.780 forever. Simply because a couple of guys at the top have been critics on a podcast. And I'm sure that

00:46:51.660 has to be frustrating to try and reform the deep state and find that you're actually not able to do so,

00:46:57.900 even though you have a democratic mandate from the American people to do it.

00:47:01.700 And then you, and then you get what to me seems like a clear order from the president himself,

00:47:07.460 not, not to keep going on Epstein. Oh my God. It's a, it's a worst case scenario.

00:47:13.840 But by the way, I do believe, I totally agree with, and it's an important point about the FBI,

00:47:18.060 more institutionalists, but I do know for a fact that over at DOJ, they're having a problem with

00:47:23.640 actual leftists in the lawyer class up and down the ranks who will not just do what the leadership

00:47:30.260 wants them to do. You know, they're, they're, and that makes sense, right? You and I are both

00:47:33.740 lawyers. We know how lawyers are. Okay. I want to keep going. Cash Patel went on with Katie Miller.

00:47:39.500 And again, I like Cash and he was just on the show two weeks ago today, but while under fire for like

00:47:45.300 paying too much attention to his girlfriend, Alexis, he brought his girlfriend, Alexis, and they did a

00:47:50.840 joint interview, which I don't think was a great move. Uh, like I understand why Katie Miller wanted

00:47:55.620 it. That makes sense. I understand why Alexis wanted it, but Cash, like my advice to Cash,

00:48:00.200 this is free, take it or leave it. The romance should not be in the papers. It should not be in

00:48:04.780 the news. It should not be on podcasts. You know, it should just be off, off the radar because too much

00:48:12.060 attention has been brought to it already because he's been flying around in the FBI play, playing,

00:48:16.780 playing to like, go see her. That was raised in the interview. And here is what

00:48:20.500 that sounded like SOT 18. This nonsense about, Oh, you're taking a private jet. We're taking the

00:48:27.160 FBI plane because Congress 20 years ago said FBI directors are not allowed to take commercial air

00:48:32.480 travel ever. It's ironic that they're saying, Oh, you're going on vacation or you're going to see

00:48:37.640 your girlfriend perform. And if I was actually abusing it, I would go see every one of her shows.

00:48:42.500 I think I get to like 15%. Okay. I'm just going to give you one more. Um, SOT 19, just stand by,

00:48:51.320 SOT 19. What's an area that you disagree with Cash on? Oh,

00:48:57.720 come on now. Oh no. I think that it's really in like random things. Like I don't like spice and he

00:49:10.580 does like, I like spice. I just, I can't handle spicy foods. I'm trying, I'm working on it. Like

00:49:15.500 I said, I'm Mediterranean. So I have it in me. I just, I need to get there with it. No, the going

00:49:19.500 out, the going out to eat is hilarious because I'm Hindu and I don't eat beef and she has a really

00:49:25.020 significant seafood allergy. So when we sit down at a dinner table or go to an event,

00:49:30.500 we have to like make sure we've provided these instructions. And so then when we're out to

00:49:35.700 dinner at a nice dinner, um, she'll order like a steak, which is great. And then I'll order like

00:49:40.260 the seafood and everything else. And it's like on a divided line, like it can't cross. But we make a

00:49:44.940 really good surf and turf team at like events. If it's like, Hey, it's going to be steak and lobster.

00:49:49.100 Like that's great. Perfect. Just different place. Divvy us up. Like we're, we're happy.

00:49:52.560 It's less than ideal. Glenn, it's less than ideal when they're already in the news.

00:49:59.540 Well, let me just say, first of all, I'm uncomfortable with this whole Katie Miller podcast,

00:50:05.000 not because I don't think she should be able to have a podcast. She's, you know, perfectly

00:50:09.600 entitled to one. She, she, she, before the Trump administration, what was, was doing this sort

00:50:14.340 of work. It's not like she just invented this at the same time. Her husband is, I would say the

00:50:19.680 most powerful person in the Trump administration. Wait, do me a favor, do me a favor and like hold

00:50:25.660 that point right there. So at the same time, Stephen Miller is one of the most powerful people

00:50:29.140 because I got to hit this hard break and we'll come back right after Glenn lucky for us is here

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00:52:30.140 advisor free of charge. Glenn Greenwald is back with me now. He is the host of Rumble's

00:52:40.100 system update. If you want to get smarter, listen to Glenn. Glenn, you were saying you have a problem

00:52:47.340 with the podcast because Katie Miller's married to one of the administration's most powerful people,

00:52:51.240 Stephen Miller. Right. And so first of all, I'm not even sure that people who get invited onto Katie

00:52:57.600 Miller's show really feel the ability to say no given the power that her husband has, but also I

00:53:07.800 don't have any problem with partisan media. I used to compliment you on the fact of audience and yet

00:53:13.880 you would interview Republican and conservative politicians as a journalist, like in an adversarial

00:53:19.760 way. This podcast is not designed to do that. It's almost like a form of state TV, but then

00:53:27.460 it doesn't like, it tries to personalize these people. Like the last one she had before Cash and

00:53:34.320 his girlfriend, she had a Mike Johnson. And for some reason, Mike Johnson's wife, like there's a

00:53:39.800 lot to ask Mike Johnson. He's the speaker of the house, but she's trying to do a softer, you know,

00:53:45.160 there's like a million angles of Mike Johnson being asked tough questions. He's trying to do like a more,

00:53:48.940 a softer side. I know, but like, you know, I ended up learning that like the person who wears the

00:53:55.880 pants and the family, as they put it, the one with the veto power, the one who makes all the decisions

00:54:00.060 is Mike Johnson's wife. And I'm like, why am I listening to this? But that doesn't mean it's not

00:54:05.420 for anybody. By the way, I, I mean, Mike Johnson is actually quite funny and I think showing a softer

00:54:10.680 side and like his personal side might be of interest to some people. I like Mike Johnson

00:54:14.700 too. I just don't know why I have to hear the details of. You don't have to, don't click on her

00:54:21.720 face. Telling his girlfriend. Like, and that is even something. Oh man. Glenn, your, your connection

00:54:30.260 is struggling. We're like struggling. Okay. But like that, that's fine. But the speaker of the house

00:54:36.380 is the FBI director. And I get what you're saying. Like not everything has to be very

00:54:40.760 substantive. And these are people who have, you know, personal lives and private lives.

00:54:44.820 It just all seems a bit incestuous because it's Katie Miller. So it's just, it, it seems very

00:54:51.100 propagandistic to me. It all seems like designed to promote these people and not really get to know

00:54:57.380 them. Well, I mean, you can know that, you know what I mean? Laura Trump has a show on Fox. So of

00:55:03.400 course you go on with Laura Trump, who I love, obviously, you know, you're not getting an

00:55:07.980 objective interviewer, but isn't, so you take it for what it's worth. You know, you take it with

00:55:12.060 that grain of salt, but it's no different than you'd see over on MSNBC where they're more in the

00:55:16.240 tank for the Democrats than Katie Miller is for the Republicans. You know, it's like, she's doing a

00:55:21.560 different thing over there when it comes to like hard versus softer news, which is fine.

00:55:26.720 I guess. I mean, but like, but you were even making the point, you know, like cash Patel and

00:55:34.300 his girlfriend and their relationship. Okay. But I was ripping on cash for that. That's not Katie 0.52

00:55:40.960 Miller's fault. That's like Katie Miller wanted to do that with their show, which is like, okay,

00:55:45.260 great. And cash, but cash should have said no, in my view, not because Katie's inappropriate,

00:55:50.260 but because there's too much news already about cash and his girlfriend, which I'm sure they would

00:55:54.960 love to put to bed. They would love that to go away. Could you say no? Could you, can you say

00:56:00.380 no? Like, isn't the weight of her husband behind her? I'm not even saying like you're using that.

00:56:06.400 That's an interesting question. I'm just saying like, okay. I feel that's what I feel like there's

00:56:10.620 a dynamic there that is, you know, her husband doesn't just work in the white house. I do think

00:56:16.520 he's the one who Trump listens to more than anybody. Well, let's hope so. Stand by. I want to

00:56:21.540 play a little bit more from cash and Alexis on the show. Watch this. So what's the ideal date night?

00:56:28.980 Staying in. Yeah. I was going to say at this point, probably like doing that thing,

00:56:32.980 sitting on the couch, watching whatever, sleeping. Our favorite restaurant is Mizumi in Las Vegas.

00:56:38.940 We go there as often as we can, but Las Vegas has the best food in the country. So we're spoiled in

00:56:44.520 that manner, but DC, I don't know. What do you like? How do you keep your personal relationship

00:56:50.700 strong when so much of what you do during the day isn't discussed outside of, you know,

00:56:56.980 a classified setting? She has this great ability to not only never ask me about my job, but never

00:57:03.060 care to because she knows we're not going to discuss it. What's the most important meeting

00:57:09.880 she's ever called and you stepped out of? I've never had to step out of a meeting because

00:57:15.720 if it was an emergency, I obviously would really never had to do that. I think I had to call you

00:57:21.620 during dinner though, when I cut my finger open. Oh yeah, there was that. I did. That was a lot.

00:57:27.580 That was, I was, yes, I was not in DC and she informed me she accidentally cut her finger open

00:57:33.380 and I said, okay, are we getting stitches? Are we at the hospital? Are we good to go? And her mom was

00:57:38.960 sending me funny texts and I knew it was fine. Yeah. Have you written any love songs about Cash?

00:57:47.040 You know, it's funny. I don't think anyone's ever asked that. Um, you know, yeah, I have.

00:57:54.320 Okay. So again, this is my advice is my free advice that they, they are free to ignore, but I,

00:57:58.840 I think, and I believe they're in love. I actually think they'll wind up married and it'll actually

00:58:02.040 be quite sweet. Um, and good for them. It's hard to find love in Washington, but, but since she's so

00:58:08.900 much like this relationship has been too much in the news and it's undermining Cash now it's

00:58:13.460 undermining. I know he doesn't like that because he loves her and he's been defensive of her,

00:58:16.220 which is also sweet, but I think she, no, she should be off air. It should be just, just Cash.

00:58:23.500 And if he wants to personalize himself by going on a softer interview, you know, format that works,

00:58:29.720 that's good. But this is calling too much attention to something that's already become

00:58:34.280 an Achilles heel for him. The right doesn't like it. Go look at Twitter, go look at X. Like there

00:58:38.720 are no positive comments about it. So that's fine. We may not like reality, but we should accept reality

00:58:44.840 and just keep the private life private. Keep it over there. Stop talking about it. Stop making news on

00:58:51.040 it. You know, people are going to try to make news about every time he goes to visit her for a concert

00:58:54.980 anyway. There's no reason to like lean in. Yeah. I mean, I do think part of the issue is,

00:59:01.420 is that it is different. Like Mike Johnson and his wife have been married 20 years. They have seven

00:59:06.160 kids. They adopted two. They have five biological kids, you know? So I think people are more open to

00:59:11.800 the fact that, you know, if you want to know Mike Johnson, you kind of have to know his family and

00:59:15.680 his wife. Like that is an important part of a politician's public profile. A girlfriend is 1.00

00:59:19.900 different. They're young. There have been, and even though, yes, it is true. He does have to

00:59:24.640 find the FBI private plane. When you have enemies inside the FBI, as we just talked about resisting

00:59:29.040 his reform and they're leaking things like he's constantly taking his private plane to Las Vegas.

00:59:33.280 He's constantly taking it to Nashville to see her shows. I just, as you said, it just,

00:59:40.240 it rubs people the wrong way when people are economically struggling, when there's already a

00:59:44.740 perception that people in the political class live this way. And I agree with you. It's a poor

00:59:50.080 decision to go in and, and, and do it. But I do question whether he felt kind of compelled.

00:59:57.420 It just, I don't know. You're right. I'm not the target audience.

01:00:00.120 I think they should follow the Doug Brunt rule.

01:00:01.300 I didn't enjoy listening to those clips.

01:00:03.420 Doug's, Doug's family, when he was younger, before we had met, they would take a big trip every

01:00:10.040 year, like a big family vacation. And their rule, when they're kids, they had four kids,

01:00:14.480 Doug's one of four. Um, their rule, when the kids started to get, you know, in their twenties

01:00:18.620 was no one can, no significant other can come unless you're at least engaged because they didn't

01:00:24.880 want the cast of girlfriends or boyfriends temporarily coming with their family on like

01:00:29.480 their biggest memories and biggest vacations. And that's probably not a bad rule for administration

01:00:35.960 officials. Like don't for an interview, like don't bring the person in for an interview.

01:00:41.100 If they're not, if you're not at least engaged, uh, because you're probably going to take a lot 0.98

01:00:45.100 of shit and God forbid they break up. It's going to get even worse, but I don't think they will. 0.99

01:00:48.340 I actually think they're a very sweet couple. My money is on them getting married, but okay,

01:00:52.340 let's move on. Um, and all the best to them because I am rooting for them. Okay. Where do we go next?

01:00:58.600 Um, oh, well, let's spend a minute on Rob Reiner. There's really not a lot of news in that case today.

01:01:03.280 He, uh, Nick Reiner was arraigned. He was brought in, he was charged officially. And, uh, the judge

01:01:11.100 confirmed that he had waived his right to a speedy arraignment and they, they continued it till January

01:01:16.160 7th. He was wearing a suicide, uh, smock, they called it. We weren't allowed to see him in court.

01:01:21.520 And then his attorney, Alan Jackson, who's like a famous attorney came out after the fact and called

01:01:27.480 the whole situation, very complex and serious. Let's allow the system to move forward in a,

01:01:33.000 in a way it was designed. No one understood exactly what he was telegraphing, but he wants

01:01:37.700 you to know this is very complex. Is it? Um, and then there was this, which I thought was worth

01:01:45.460 playing wall street journal reporter, John Jurgensen had an interesting report yesterday on the party at

01:01:52.340 Conan O'Brien's the night that Rob and Michelle were killed. They'd been there and they,

01:01:57.480 had brought their son, Nick, who by all accounts had been acting inappropriately. And he filled in

01:02:01.720 some of those details in this report, which he then spoke about on CNN. Sot three.

01:02:07.600 During the party, he was approaching people there asking questions that in that context

01:02:13.560 seemed confrontational, strange, uh, or especially, are you famous asking people there? Are you famous?

01:02:20.520 So you can imagine, imagine a party of actual famous people and fame adjacent people who are really

01:02:26.100 used to strange behavior out in public, but here they are at a gathering of their peers at a party

01:02:32.580 hosted by Conan. It was unsettling to some. So Bill Hader was one of the people he approached at the

01:02:37.620 party. There was an awkward exchange and made more awkward by the fact that he had met Hader earlier

01:02:41.940 in the night. Um, so when Rob had introduced him. So when he came up and asked him questions such as,

01:02:48.220 what's your name? Are you famous? Um, it was, it was unsettling and described as scary from,

01:02:54.260 from Hader's perspective. So think about it, Glenn, it wasn't just this guy Hader, but apparently Nick

01:02:59.480 was going up to all these famous people. If you listen to the longer interview, all these famous

01:03:03.420 people at Conan O'Brien's house. And he was making the point, the reporter there that, you know,

01:03:08.900 in a room full of famous people at Conan O'Brien's Christmas party, um, it's very strange to keep

01:03:17.520 asking people, are you famous? Right? It's one thing if one famous person shows up at a party of

01:03:23.500 non-famous people and then meets somebody who doesn't know who they are. And the person says,

01:03:28.660 oh, are you famous? You know, like that's happened to all of us. Actually, funny story, just as an

01:03:33.640 aside, Doug and I, one year we went to the Met Gala. We were, we went to the after party after we

01:03:38.800 went to the gala. We're standing in the red rope line, waiting to get into the after party. We're

01:03:43.860 speaking with this young woman and, um, you know, one thing leads to another and it makes, it's pretty

01:03:48.680 clear that she's some sort of an athlete. I'm like, oh, what do you do? She goes, I play soccer. I'm like,

01:03:53.380 oh, are you any good? She's like, yeah, yeah, I'm pretty good. That woman was Alex Morgan.

01:03:59.440 Who is in fact very, very good at soccer. So I'm just saying, sometimes you meet somebody who's

01:04:04.880 famous and if it's not in your wheelhouse, you don't know. That's not, that's not what was

01:04:09.800 happening with Nick Reiner. He was behaving weirdly and inappropriately. And it just sort of sets the

01:04:15.820 stage for his, his bizarre behavior that evening, but not so bizarre. He's going to get off on an

01:04:22.520 insanity defense. So I haven't had the chance to ask you about this whole case. Where are you on it?

01:04:26.640 What do you think of it? Because of my husband's political career, I used to be at parties all the

01:04:32.300 time with like big Brazilian celebrities that I don't actually recognize. And probably Brazil's

01:04:37.280 most famous singer came up to me once and said, oh, I'm so happy to meet you. I really respect your

01:04:41.980 work. And I said, oh, what do you do just to get it off me? I was like, do you work for this political

01:04:46.660 candidate whose event we're at? And he's like, no, I I'm in music. And I pictured him like, you know,

01:04:51.400 kind of playing like the, like a clarinet on the corner. And then my husband was dying of

01:04:56.600 embarrassment. And he interrupted like Caetano. I'm a huge fan. His name was Caetano Veloso,

01:05:00.540 like the most famous musician in all of Brazil, kind of like the Michael Jackson or Bob Dylan.

01:05:05.780 I was like, what do you do? Do you like, do you work? Yeah, it was horrible. Anyway. I think,

01:05:11.360 you know, one of the things I think is interesting about this case is that a lot of American families

01:05:17.500 suffer from addiction, it used to be a lot more stigmatized than it was in the sense that people

01:05:22.600 really thought it was like a moral failing. And here you see, you know, the son of an extremely

01:05:27.460 famous wealthy person who by all accounts was like a very dedicated father and his wife, a very

01:05:32.880 dedicated mother doing everything they could for this kid. And then even into adulthood to save him

01:05:39.180 in some way from addiction. And as so many American families have experienced, like sometimes that

01:05:45.060 demon is the hardest one to battle. And I think it's a good reminder that it cuts across all

01:05:50.460 socioeconomic lines. And then I also think there's this sort of interesting aspect, you know, if you're

01:05:55.780 poor and you're trying to raise kids, that's very difficult. But sometimes if you're very rich and your

01:06:00.480 kid is born into great wealth, that also can be very difficult because they might not have motivation.

01:06:05.600 They might, you know, feel like too heavy of an expectation. I think there's a lot of things in this

01:06:11.500 story kind of like as a morality play that Americans can learn from. And especially when it comes to

01:06:16.800 addiction, because of what a pervasive problem it is for families across the country. I think every

01:06:21.080 time there's a story that involves addiction, it can be important to kind of break down the stigma and

01:06:27.640 create some empathy for families who, you know, might feel like it's their fault. But in reality,

01:06:32.400 it's something that, you know, infects so many parts of society.

01:06:36.460 And it sounds like Nick Reiner had some significant mental health issues prior to the

01:06:42.260 addiction, which, you know, from all accounts, like by age 10, we're really manifesting in the

01:06:47.880 family. It's a nightmare. I mean, what do you do with a child who is mentally disturbed in a way

01:06:53.900 that they have really upsetting social behaviors, but they're not committable. It's not at that level.

01:07:01.560 They haven't broken the criminal law, so they're not going to go to jail. They're just going to be

01:07:07.160 dependent on you in an upsetting and disruptive, negative way forever. I mean, that's a curse.

01:07:17.940 That is why you sit around, if you're lucky enough to have healthy children and look at,

01:07:23.620 you know, your life and say, thank you, God, thank you, God, thank you, God, for giving me three

01:07:27.460 healthy children. And it's not saddling me with that burden. I feel like the Reiners got saddled

01:07:32.820 with that burden. That's how it looks to me. Yeah. And like in their situations, like impossible

01:07:38.200 to know what to do. You can like let them, you know, end up on the street and be homeless,

01:07:42.600 but it's your still your, your, your kid. Like you, you love him. You've raised him. He's your,

01:07:47.820 you know, your family. But then if you let them stay in your guest house and support him,

01:07:52.680 are you like enable, it's just such an awful dilemma. And to go through that for so many years

01:07:58.400 and have your payment be dying in that manner at the hands of that person, it's, it's like

01:08:06.460 uniquely sickening. And so sad because Rob Reiner was 78. His dad, Carl Reiner, also famous. Rob had

01:08:13.520 been in a similar situation to that of his son lived to 98. You know, I mean, he clearly had some good

01:08:18.940 genes, even on the male side, which is rare. And, uh, who knows how much longer he could have lived.

01:08:24.560 You know, the other two children seem to be madly in love with their parents. And there's a third

01:08:29.180 child to a first daughter that they, he adopted when he's married to Penny Marshall. So you, you know,

01:08:32.940 your heart has to go out to them. Uh, all right. I want to keep going. Cause there's a lot of other

01:08:37.200 stuff we want to get to. And this is the story that I've been waiting for. The Coldplay kiss cam lady

01:08:44.020 has decided to speak out. And the headline is she's the victim. Just in case you didn't know

01:08:50.920 she's the victim. We made her the victim. She really, she did something very minor that was

01:08:55.900 wrong, but it wasn't really that big. People are nasty and they need to stop harassing her. 1.00

01:09:00.960 The only part of that that I agree with is people should stop harassing her. Apparently she said some

01:09:05.840 in-person and like nasty writings and so on that that's unnecessary. Uh, but the rest of us are fully

01:09:11.760 free to comment on her behavior and she's going to have to deal with it because it happened and

01:09:17.300 happened on camera and it wasn't well handled. So she has sat, she has now sat with the New York

01:09:22.940 times and also with, uh, the telegraph, I think, or no times of London for dueling interviews. She sat

01:09:30.420 for an entire day with the New York times and, uh, Lucy Liu who writes, uh, okay. About how

01:09:40.980 okay. Coldplay kiss cam HR boss, Kristen Cabot on 16 seconds that ruined her life. And this whole 0.98

01:09:51.040 piece is an attempt, I think, to shame us for shaming her and to talk about how she's been sort

01:09:57.400 of slut shamed and also to paint it as totally unfair because according to Kristen Cabot, when she 1.00

01:10:04.920 got caught on the kiss cam with the, with her boss of this company, astronomer, she was head of HR that 0.97

01:10:12.820 her sin was simply quote, I made a bad decision and had a couple of high noons and danced and acted

01:10:20.200 inappropriately with my boss. And it's not nothing. And I took accountability and I gave up my career

01:10:27.780 for that. That's the price I chose to pay. You did not choose that. It was not your choice. Um,

01:10:35.300 I want my kids to know that you can make mistakes and you can really screw up, but you don't have

01:10:39.840 to be threatened or be killed for them. Well, obviously that last line is true, but she's

01:10:45.840 trying to turn this into like a heroic moment for her. First of all, it's too soon. We're still,

01:10:51.020 still too fresh on the mind. You have demanded that we restore you to your pedestal in life

01:10:55.920 before we're kind of over what we saw. And second of all, I don't believe you that you were both

01:11:02.100 separated when that happened at all, which seems to be her main defense. Glenn, she says she was

01:11:08.160 separated from her husband. And the reason she recoiled when the spotlight, the kiss cam was placed

01:11:13.520 on her and this astronomer guy, the CEO was that her soon to be ex-husband was in the audience that night

01:11:19.940 at Coldplay and she didn't want to humiliate him. And you have to go like halfway into the New York

01:11:28.220 Times article, which is lengthy before they even mentioned the fact that her boss was also married.

01:11:35.500 And, and that was the focus of the outrage. It only came out weeks into it that she too,

01:11:41.380 Kristen Cabot was also married. And it did come out at that time that they were in some sort of a

01:11:46.180 separation, but the boss was not separated, even though he now claims that he was, I don't believe

01:11:53.080 him for one second. What his wife did when the story broke was to take down her socials, to change 1.00

01:12:00.480 her last name back to her maiden name immediately on some of her socials. And, you know, here's the

01:12:06.060 most telling part. You know what the boss didn't do? His name is Andy Byron. You know what he didn't do

01:12:12.940 when the scandal broke and he was about to get fired and he'd been publicly humiliated. He did

01:12:17.140 not release a statement saying, my wife and I are separated. That is literally all he had to do for

01:12:23.220 me to believe him. But he did not do that. And his wife did not do that. By the way, there are reports

01:12:28.840 that they are together right now. They are still together. So I don't believe that he was separated.

01:12:34.900 I accept that this gal, Kristen Cabot was, but that was the scandal that, that it was a cheating 1.00

01:12:40.780 situation as called out by Chris Martin. When we all saw their reaction, we should play the video

01:12:45.820 just so we can remind people how it looked. Here it is.

01:12:49.460 Look at these two.

01:12:50.100 Okay, there.

01:12:50.760 All right, come on. You're okay?

01:12:52.780 Uh-oh, what?

01:12:55.540 Either they're having an affair or they're just very shy.

01:13:01.520 Either they're having an affair or they're very shy.

01:13:04.020 Okay, so your thoughts on Kristen Cabot trying to rehabilitate herself. I don't know how many

01:13:09.680 months is it to happen in July. So what, five months after the event?

01:13:14.960 I'm a little conflicted on this. I don't know if we see this the same way. I think the thing that

01:13:20.040 was most bothersome was that she's head of HR. And that's a job where you're supposed to be 1.00

01:13:27.980 enforcing rules of workplace propriety. And so for all the people who might be having an affair with

01:13:36.300 their boss, to have it be the head of the HR, who a lot of people, like there are few worse people

01:13:43.220 in general. I don't mean to like overly generalize, but usually like HR managers are the worst. Like

01:13:49.060 those are the people who are just constantly like monitoring you and like pretending they're trying

01:13:53.740 to support you. And in reality, they're really just working for the corporation to protect the

01:13:57.860 corporation against you. So I think a lot of this, yeah, yeah. For anything, I think a lot of the

01:14:02.620 is from people's experience with HR and the fact that she was an HR manager. I do think there's a

01:14:10.040 question when there's a married couple and then there's a woman who ends up having sex with the 0.99

01:14:18.960 man in that married couple who actually bears most of the blame in that situation. Like to me,

01:14:25.560 it has always seemed like the person in the marriage who has promised the fidelity

01:14:29.380 responsibility is the one who bears most of the blame and not the woman who doesn't have a similar

01:14:35.140 commitment. Um, and then, you know, we also, I don't, I don't disagree with that. The person who's

01:14:41.380 breaking the vow has to answer to the person they made the vow to. That's really the main sin.

01:14:48.300 Right. And a lot of times we don't know what's taking place in other people's marriages. I mean,

01:14:53.240 the fact that they are still together might signify that for whatever reason, she, the wife had,

01:14:59.000 didn't react in the way that other people reacted on her behalf. Um, and then why'd she change all

01:15:05.080 her social media then? I mean, she clearly did have a reaction to it. That right. She was probably

01:15:11.260 embarrassed. Yeah. And, and, and it was a very embarrassing situation. Like I don't blame her

01:15:16.640 for wanting to distance herself, but the fact that she's still with him, who knows why? And then

01:15:22.440 finally, like we have a lot of people in very exactly probably that's, that's one of the reasons.

01:15:29.220 Um, but then there also like, there are people in very high political positions that we know we elect

01:15:34.820 and that we let lead us these days who 40 years ago would never have been even remotely conceivably

01:15:39.980 possible. Gary Hart got driven out of, you know, the 1998, 1988 race when he was discovered having an

01:15:45.360 affair with Donna Rice, probably for anyone younger than us, that's old, that's, that's things they've

01:15:50.220 never heard of. And yet, you know, you fast forward it and you have people like Bill Clinton who gets

01:15:54.840 reelected and Donald Trump who has had his own very public adulteries and affairs and overlapping

01:16:01.720 sorts of things. This makes me start to wonder like, why are we so obsessed with that couple and

01:16:08.320 shaming them when the mores have clearly changed or on the people who, who have a lot

01:16:15.320 more power and influence than they? Hmm. Okay. So it's interesting. I mean, like you're not wrong

01:16:21.040 that they hold women to different standards than they hold men to like the public. And that's wrong.

01:16:26.220 I mean, a shitty marriage can lead to infidelity on either side. Um, and, and not to quote Woody 0.94

01:16:34.200 Allen, but I am going to quote Woody Allen, who I don't believe did anything to his daughter,

01:16:38.360 Dylan at all. It's, these are lies that were made up against him by Mia Farrow, um, who was trying to

01:16:43.960 manipulate her daughter to avoid losing custody during a divorce and to hurt Woody. Um, but in

01:16:49.020 any event, he, he did have a, have an affair with and fall in love with, and then marry Mia's adopted

01:16:55.060 daughter, Sun Yi when she was young, she was 19. Um, the heart wants what it wants. So these, you know,

01:17:03.740 it is true that couples in bad marriages sometimes make bad decisions. And this only became the public's

01:17:10.860 business because they were caught on the Coldplay kiss cam. I guess what I think they should have

01:17:16.860 done is just come out right away. Like come out right away and give, just give an interview and,

01:17:22.320 and don't have even a hint of a tone that you're the victim. Just come out and say, I'm totally

01:17:29.280 humiliated. Um, I shouldn't have done it. And she is calling herself out for being the head of HR here. 1.00

01:17:35.320 She just, she acknowledges that's bad, uh, to be with the head of, of the, the company. But I mean,

01:17:41.280 I had a couple of high, high noons and danced and acted inappropriately with my boss and it's not

01:17:48.260 nothing. It's not nothing, but I mean, come on like that. Now that is downplaying what happened.

01:17:54.980 And I will tell you just from talking to other women, they get very angry when they see this kind 1.00

01:18:01.120 of thing, because they start to picture their own husband up there with another woman. And, uh,

01:18:07.280 even though the husband made the vow, they start to think about like, well, how, who's working

01:18:11.920 against me and how, without thinking about their own role and sending the marriage South to where

01:18:18.060 the husband would be potentially in a position to want to look at another woman. Right. And it's like,

01:18:22.720 it raises very complicated feelings for everyone involved.

01:18:26.160 People look at it through the prism of their own lives and what is, has either happened in their

01:18:33.860 own lives, what they've done, what their spouse has done, what they fear might happen. And I think

01:18:40.600 that's where the kind of, that's why some of these things resonate. I guess all I'm saying is, is that

01:18:47.780 the public morality being imposed on them seems inconsistent for me with the public morality that

01:18:55.400 we've kind of allowed to take root where we know that a lot of people with a lot of power in 0.70

01:19:03.820 politics or in business do this and far worse. And let me ask you a question to the conclusion

01:19:09.880 as a society, that's not our business. Yeah. Let me ask you a question. Is it because of the way

01:19:15.180 they reacted on cam? Like they telegraphed shame immediately, which is something Trump has never

01:19:22.460 done. Right. Like, exactly. I think that, that changed the way we all felt about it.

01:19:28.300 I totally agree. I totally agree. They exactly. I think that's, I think you're absolutely right.

01:19:33.320 I haven't thought about it that, but I think that's exactly the key to it is that they, and Chris,

01:19:38.140 Chris Martin noticed it right away. Right. He said, Oh my God, look at how ashamed they are. Like they

01:19:43.140 must be doing something wrong. So if they react like they're doing something wrong, of course,

01:19:47.540 the public is going to say, Oh yeah, they they've done something wrong. And so I do think that's the

01:19:53.860 part where like either you, you, you, you do this behavior and you say, look, this is my life. This is

01:20:00.160 my choice. This is not your business. Or, you know, if you're going to act like you just got caught doing

01:20:05.700 something terribly wrong, don't be surprised when everybody else sees it the same way. And I think

01:20:11.100 that is the key to why that became such a big story. I think you're very right about that.

01:20:16.100 She's now trying to turn it around into like an example for her children. Um, I don't know. I

01:20:21.300 think leave the kids out of it. Just keep out of it. And like, that's just meant to humanize her 0.99

01:20:25.440 in the public's eye. Like she's really, she trying to play up the death threat she got. She's trying

01:20:29.680 to play up like certain people have said something to her. Like she alleges that the gas station,

01:20:34.120 some woman was like, Oh, how can you live with yourself or whatever? Okay. When you are embroiled in a 1.00

01:20:39.140 public scandal, people are going to react like that's modern day America, 2025. And for whatever

01:20:47.000 reason, her moment was caught on tape. She's going to have to live with that. 0.78

01:20:51.220 Yeah. I can't stand when people act like that is something that has only happened to them.

01:20:57.680 You know, if you're at all in the public realm and, and I guess in defense of her, like they

01:21:04.060 didn't choose to be, although if you, you know, if you want to do that, go to a place that's private,

01:21:08.540 um, keep it behind closed doors. Like everybody in the public. Exactly. But if you're, you know,

01:21:15.160 if you're in the public realm, you're going to get people angry at you. You're going to hear

01:21:19.380 terrible things said about you. And so often, like, we all know this happens, you know, to,

01:21:25.660 to, to any of us in the public realm. And I really can't stand when people whine about it as though

01:21:30.660 they're uniquely victimized by it, especially when they made a choice to enter the public realm and,

01:21:36.580 and to, to do that. Like there's benefits from having a public platform and that's one of the

01:21:41.480 costs and just accept that and stop whining about it because it happens to everybody.

01:21:45.720 Totally. In my own case, if somebody says something nasty to me, I usually just blow them off. Or if

01:21:51.440 they're particularly aggressive, I'll shoot a remark back, but I don't take it any further than that

01:21:57.280 unless they actually physically threatened me or my family. And then they're going to get a visit from

01:22:02.140 the cops, but that's my general rule. Like, and if they're truly nuts, then they're going to get a 0.89

01:22:06.120 restraining order against them. Like you have to assess whether this is a, an actual threat to you

01:22:10.220 and your family, or whether this is just some critic, which is like, if you're in the public eye,

01:22:15.080 you have to take criticism. You have to take pot shots. Sadly, it's part of the deal, like toughen

01:22:20.260 up, get a thicker skin. And unfortunately for this woman, her bad moment, you know, her bad decision

01:22:26.700 was caught on camera. That wouldn't have happened had she kept her bad decision private, behind closed

01:22:32.500 doors, like, like civilized people having an affairs, like in a, in a dark corner of some bar,

01:22:37.700 not, not on the Coldplay kiss cam, something with which she's always going to be associated.

01:22:45.800 Okay. So that was it. She's back. And she really, really would like us to know she's

01:22:49.960 not exactly sorry, but she's kind of pissed off at the rest of us. All right, stand by. We have to

01:22:55.240 take a quick break and then we're going to be right back more with Glenn Greenwald. Don't go away.

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01:23:57.120 Glenn Greenwald is back with me. Glenn, the news is breaking right now from the New York Times

01:24:02.300 on Donald Trump and Jeffrey Epstein. They think they've got him this time. They've really got

01:24:08.340 him this time. Here are some highlights. Hold on a second. My team is sending me the name of the

01:24:13.740 article. It's Don's Best Friend. How Epstein and Trump bonded over the pursuit of women. And left-wing

01:24:22.840 X is going nuts over what's in this article right now. Here are some highlights. The Times interviewed

01:24:29.260 more than 30 former Epstein employees, victims of his abuse, and others who crossed paths with the

01:24:34.200 two men over the years. Again, I feel the need to point out victims of his abuse gets used very loosely

01:24:39.900 by everyone about Jeffrey Epstein. Who? Have their claims been proven in a court of law or otherwise?

01:24:49.020 Like, we don't know. They continue to just accept, like, certain women who are adults who were

01:24:55.020 allegedly, quote, molested by Jeffrey Epstein when they were 22. Like, this is tricky. In any event,

01:25:02.880 that's what they say. An examination of their history by the New York Times has found no evidence

01:25:08.020 implicating Mr. Trump and Mr. Epstein's abuse and trafficking of minors. Okay, that's great. That

01:25:12.640 seems like an important thing to remember. During a flight together in the early 1990s, Mr. Trump came on

01:25:17.760 to another Epstein employee traveling with them, telling her that he could have anyone he wanted,

01:25:22.120 according to a different Epstein worker who learned of the incident. A separate Epstein employee from

01:25:26.040 that era recalled, Trump would occasionally send over modeling cards to Epstein to peruse like a menu.

01:25:32.760 Okay. So he sent over modeling cards to Epstein, and he said on a plane that he could have anyone he

01:25:39.440 wanted. Got it? A few times a week, the phone would ring in Mr. Epstein's office. Trump would be on the

01:25:45.600 line. On one occasion, recalled an Epstein assistant from the mid-1990s, Mr. Trump refused to give any

01:25:51.400 name at all. The first assistant, who often worked late, recalled that sometimes when the office emptied

01:25:55.700 out, Mr. Epstein, oh, this is the part that they're loving. Mr. Epstein would check to see that she was at

01:26:00.900 her desk, and then he would put Trump on speaker. Mr. Trump, she said, seemed to enjoy regaling Mr. Epstein

01:26:05.660 with tales of his sexual exploits, and Mr. Epstein seemed to delight in how uncomfortable it made her to

01:26:11.640 overhear them. She remembered one call in the mid-1990s on which the two men discussed how much

01:26:16.180 pubic hair a woman, a particular woman, had, and whether there was enough for Mr. Epstein to floss

01:26:21.100 his teeth with. On another, Mr. Trump told Epstein about having sex with another woman on a pool table, 0.90

01:26:27.340 according to the former assistant. Now there's this other woman who says she's afraid to be identified 0.67

01:26:32.660 or even to be talking to the New York Times because she is afraid she will be executed. One woman,

01:26:37.660 then a model, and a college student in her early 20s living in Manhattan said she attended four

01:26:42.560 parties at Epstein's mansion. It was like a pissing contest. Who had the most women, she recalled. 1.00

01:26:47.640 She requested anonymity to describe her experiences in detail, saying she feared for her family's safety

01:26:52.520 after Mr. Trump said some of his critics could be executed for sedition. Okay, that was, that's,

01:26:59.500 I think, very different from her situation. Last but not least, this one involves Marla Maples,

01:27:04.860 Trump's second wife. Tina Davis, who modeled for Ford in the mid-1990s, and her mother, Sandra Coleman,

01:27:11.280 attended a Mar-a-Lago party in late 1994 when Tina was 14. During a trip to the bathroom,

01:27:18.260 they ran into Trump's new wife, Marla Maples. They had not met her earlier. Ms. Maples clasped her

01:27:24.700 hands, Ms. Coleman recalled, and looked her in the eye, quote, whatever you do, do not let her around

01:27:30.840 any of these men, and especially my husband, she told Ms. Coleman. Protect her. Okay, Ms. Maples,

01:27:40.780 because you remember, like, all the negative comments Ms. Maples has said about Trump since

01:27:44.340 their divorce, since Trump ran for office. She's constantly been out there saying,

01:27:48.160 he's a Me Too-er, he's an Epstein enabler. He, no, not a word. She's never disparaged him. 0.52

01:27:53.340 Ms. Maples denied making the comment. I would always protect young women in any way I could,

01:27:58.160 she said, but I am sure I did not specifically say that about my daughter's father. So that's the big

01:28:05.180 dump from the New York Times, Trump and his best friend, Epstein. Your thoughts on it, Glenn?

01:28:13.760 Okay. Is it actually breaking news that Donald Trump in the 80s and 90s, as a young, good-looking,

01:28:23.100 extremely rich Manhattan real estate developer had a strong interest in women and even womanized? 0.99

01:28:31.520 Like, we heard the Access Hollywood tape in 2016. People thought it was going to

01:28:37.060 sabotage his campaign, and it didn't. Yes, Donald Trump had a very active sex life,

01:28:42.620 a very strong interest in women, even when he was married. This is kind of what I was talking about

01:28:46.920 earlier. And people have decided that this is not disqualifying. And the other part of it is,

01:28:53.600 and this is something that I think is so important, the whole Jeffrey Epstein thing,

01:28:57.600 and I have to say, in a way, the American right kind of made this monster, and it's now sort of

01:29:03.160 attacking them, where it became like every person who ever talked to Jeffrey Epstein, who ever met

01:29:07.700 Jeffrey Epstein somehow had suspicion on them that they were a pedophile or had an interest in

01:29:13.700 underage girls. A lot of the so-called victims, as you said, Michael Tracy has been really doing

01:29:19.180 among the most courageous work on this because he's been fighting against the tide in this.

01:29:23.620 A lot of these women who claim to have been victims of sex trafficking or Epstein victims

01:29:28.960 never met Jeffrey Epstein until they were like 22 or 23 or 24, not underage at all. So he was also

01:29:36.020 surrounded by a lot of women who were definitely young, but well above the age of consent. And all of 0.99

01:29:42.620 this is being done now with innuendo by the New York Times and by the American left, just trying

01:29:47.640 in any way to take some of this dirt from Jeffrey Epstein and throw as much of it as they can on

01:29:52.900 Trump, which might be politically effective given everybody watched Trump fight so hard to conceal

01:29:58.680 the files. But until there's evidence that Trump actually had any kind of relationship with an

01:30:05.400 underage girl, and there actually has never been anything remotely close to that, all this is,

01:30:11.100 political activism disguised as journalism, which is everything that you read me from the New York

01:30:17.320 Times, which I haven't read yet, but the parts that you read me are empty in terms of anything

01:30:22.360 significant.

01:30:23.300 I know. I'm yawning like, okay. I mean, he was a playboy and he loved to talk about his sexual

01:30:29.120 exploits. Got it. I want to tell you this is just in. This is breaking from WPRI.com, which I think is a 0.98

01:30:37.880 local news outlet. The headline is police probe potential ties between Brown University attack

01:30:43.120 and MIT professor slaying. That is interesting. It doesn't mean there is, there is a link. It's

01:30:48.600 police are probing it. And previously they had said, we don't believe there's a link. So now it's,

01:30:53.320 it is news that there could be. Um, um, here's the excerpt. Target 12 is confirmed. Law enforcement

01:31:02.160 is now examining possible ties between the two crimes. Multiple people familiar with the

01:31:08.040 investigation said they have discovered evidence showing the two may be linked. Well, now that's

01:31:15.920 interesting. And I don't know how I'm not jumping to conclusions, but I will note the MIT professor

01:31:21.160 was Jewish. The professor whose class was attacked. He wasn't, he wasn't, he wasn't, he wasn't Jewish. 0.96

01:31:28.120 There was a lot of, my team just told me that he was. No, I, the latest I saw is that he, he wasn't,

01:31:34.440 I think he was like a, a defender of Israel. Um, but not himself Jewish, but you know, there's a lot

01:31:41.320 of stuff going on around line. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. So I don't know that as my team told me that they had

01:31:46.960 seen he was in any event, we have no idea what the ties were. And the woman whose class was attacked

01:31:51.700 at Brown is an Israeli, a pro-Israeli activist. However, she was not even there that day. It was

01:31:58.520 a review class. She was not even in the class and it does not look like, you know, there hasn't been

01:32:04.280 a mention that like the kids targeted were Jewish, et cetera, inside. In fact, well, all we know so far

01:32:09.380 is that the one girl who was killed was the vice president of the college Republicans. And the other

01:32:13.480 young man who was killed was a naturalized citizen from Uzbekistan who was studying to be a neurosurgeon.

01:32:19.280 So we, we don't see the pattern so far and it may not emerge, but it is news that they are

01:32:23.800 probing it and there's potential links. I mean, but don't worry, Glenn, everyone's safe. Don't worry,

01:32:29.320 go out there and live your life as normal. Just like the mayor of Providence said, because

01:32:32.260 you know, no one's been shot since Saturday. Oh wait, maybe, maybe they have, I don't know.

01:32:37.440 Keep sending your child into this classroom. And also there's, these are super sophisticated

01:32:40.780 investigators. Don't worry. They're going to catch this person anytime now. I think the confidence

01:32:46.060 level should be very high in, in these police, police investigators and the, the local politicians.

01:32:50.620 I know. All right. One other thing I want to get to, well, there's two, if I have time,

01:32:54.100 um, the vanity fair photographer who took those hideous pictures of the Trump administration for

01:32:59.940 their big piece. Susie Wiles gives them 11 months of access, 11 interviews with this guy,

01:33:06.420 Chris Whipple. Then the, the thanks that they get is what Susie says are out of context,

01:33:13.200 pull quotes. Um, I get it. Shame on her for trusting them, but the pictures were so offensively

01:33:20.460 unflattering of a good looking group. JD Vance is attractive. Caroline Levitt's attractive. Susie

01:33:25.180 Wiles is attractive. It's not hard to take a nice picture of them at all. This photographer went out

01:33:29.500 of his way to make them look bad. His name is Christopher Anderson. He works for vanity fair as a

01:33:34.580 freelancer showing the extreme closeup of poor Caroline Levitt, who is like so much more attractive 1.00

01:33:39.880 than this. JD Vance, who looks like some sort of a demon, uh, in this weird picture. And then Susie

01:33:45.100 Wiles, who really looks like she is not a Marco Rubio, who looks like ruddy and poorly complected and 0.96

01:33:51.180 I don't know, dirty. There's Susie Wiles in what looks like a mugshot with somebody potentially 1.00

01:33:55.940 pinching her ass. That's what that looks like to me. It's just so bad all around. And this photographer 1.00

01:34:00.780 says, um, he's not sorry. He says what? Cause you can see Caroline Levitt's lip injections. You can

01:34:10.040 see the little marks where the needles had gone in not too long before this. And just note to all

01:34:14.280 ladies, do not sit for a photo photograph or a photo shoot. If you have those marks on your face, 1.00

01:34:19.840 trust no one. She had to learn that the hard way, sadly, but here's what he says. I didn't put the

01:34:24.800 injection sites on her. People seem to be shocked that I didn't use Photoshop to retouch out

01:34:28.680 blemishes in her injection marks. I find it shocking that someone would expect me to retouch

01:34:33.220 out those things. I'm surprised that a journalist would even need to ask me the question of why

01:34:38.300 didn't I retouch out the blemishes? Because if I had, that would be a lie. I would be hiding the truth

01:34:43.660 of what I saw there. Well, what can I say? That's the makeup she puts on. Those are the injections she 1.00

01:34:49.620 gave herself. If they show up in a photo, what do you want me to say? I don't know if it says something

01:34:54.160 about the world we live in, the age of Photoshop, the age of AI filters on your Insta, but the fact

01:34:58.680 that the internet is freaking out because they're seeing real photos and not retouched ones says

01:35:02.780 something to me. And he says, I've been doing this for a long, long time. He points to his picture,

01:35:09.740 the photos he took of Barack and Michelle Obama. Now let me show you what those look like.

01:35:14.960 The photo of Barack Obama. It's close, but it is a one third shot. It's got his necktie. Here's

01:35:25.060 Michelle Obama, who by the way, looks pretty. She's doing like a kissing face and it's a profile, 0.99

01:35:29.880 which by the way, will look better on virtually everybody instead of straight on. And she looks 0.99

01:35:36.780 cute because she's like making like a kissing motion and she's got shadows on her face that are 1.00

01:35:41.260 kind of flattering. And there's Barack Obama, again, a profile, which is better for anybody

01:35:45.800 who's going super up close. And you've got enough of his shoulders and chest that you can see necktie,

01:35:51.820 collar, and the lapels of his jacket. Same thing here. You can see his neck and the neck of his

01:35:57.200 shirt. And again, it's in profile, which I'm just telling you is, is more flattering on everyone.

01:36:03.840 And this is his defense to trying to make them obviously Glenn look terrible. Your thoughts.

01:36:09.580 Two things. One is that is such a disingenuous statement from the photographer. Okay. I just

01:36:15.980 take pictures. However they come out, that's not my fault. You know, I would, when I went during the

01:36:20.360 reporting, I had, you know, profiles in every single magazine, they were almost overwhelmingly

01:36:24.400 positive because people, the media liked the work and the pictures were great. And then I had a whole

01:36:29.060 new set of profiles when I kind of started splitting over at the left over Russiagate and Trump

01:36:33.980 going on Fox a lot. And they all looked like I was some kind of like demon troll unleashed from the 0.69

01:36:40.300 depths of hell. You know, it's so obvious like that they play that game. They pick the photos and

01:36:45.820 make it look good or bad based on whether they like you or not. Everybody who has any role in media

01:36:51.080 understands that. But I will say, I do think like Trump has spent 10 years calling these media outlets

01:36:59.060 fake news. Everybody knows like Vanity Fair or Rolling Stone or whatever hates Trump and the

01:37:05.240 Trump administration. So I do kind of blame, you know, Susie Wiles and like these Trump officials

01:37:11.320 who continuously give access to these media outlets that they know hate them and then act like surprised

01:37:16.900 or indignant when they're not treated fairly. Like, you know, if like, you know, Trump used to get

01:37:22.340 Trump gave Maggie Haberman, you know, full access to the Oval Office and every article that came out 1.00

01:37:27.640 would be incredibly negative. And he'd be like, she's a liar. She's a fake reporter. And then the 0.97

01:37:31.520 next week she'd be right back in the office. Michael Wolff too. Exactly. Oh yeah. I mean,

01:37:37.800 Michael Wolff, so many of those kinds of choices. And I get, you know, maybe you hope that this time

01:37:43.380 they're going to be fair, especially if you give them a lot, they're not going to be fair to you ever

01:37:47.480 that it's embedded in their DNA. Like don't have any expectation other than the fact that this is going

01:37:53.000 to be the result. But that statement by the photographer, like who, why are you blaming me

01:37:57.700 for the fact that her like pock marks or her injection marks as though he has no choice or

01:38:02.940 the editors have no choice over which photo they use? Please. It's like so insultingly deceitful.

01:38:09.740 Totally. And to think like he would ever have done this to Michelle Obama, which he didn't,

01:38:14.880 or Kamala Harris is a lie. It's a lie. And there is no question he did his level best to take

01:38:20.780 attractive people and make them look bad. And so, yeah, I mean, to quote the, the genius of Animal

01:38:28.300 House, you fucked up. You trusted us. And yeah, that's, that's live and learn. Now wait, stay with 1.00

01:38:35.400 me another 10 minutes, Glenn, because there's one other story I want to talk to you about. It's a

01:38:39.000 great, great story. It doesn't start great, but it finishes great. I've been talking a lot about

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01:40:13.000 Hey, everyone. It's me, Megan Kelly. I've got some exciting news. I now have my very own channel

01:40:19.280 on SiriusXM. It's called the Megan Kelly Channel, and it is where you will hear the truth unfiltered

01:40:24.460 with no agenda and no apologies. Along with the Megan Kelly Show, you're going to hear from people

01:40:28.920 like Mark Halperin, Link Lauren, Maureen Callahan, Emily Drashinsky, Jesse Kelly, Real Clear Politics,

01:40:34.860 and many more. It's bold, no BS news only on the Megan Kelly Channel, SiriusXM 111, and on the

01:40:41.980 SiriusXM app.

01:40:47.940 Glenn Greenwald is back with me. So tomorrow, we're going to do the show in the morning,

01:40:52.460 and then I will be getting on a plane to go to Arizona to speak at the Turning Point big event,

01:41:00.200 their AMFest production, stands for America Fest 2025. And it was very important to me to go to this,

01:41:05.900 though normally I can't go to this one because we're usually going off to our family vacation for

01:41:12.180 the holidays in Montana. So this year, I said, I'm absolutely going. Try to keep me away because

01:41:18.380 we're all getting out there to try to honor Charlie. This is the first big event since he

01:41:24.340 died. And the last one I was at as well, which was in July, where he interviewed me,

01:41:29.880 and we talked all about Epstein. So I will be there. And Charlie's been on my mind a lot lately

01:41:34.880 for many reasons. And that's why this news jumped out at me and what I wanted to talk to you about,

01:41:40.100 Glenn. There is a woman named Jeannie Beeman, and she works at a Target store in Orland, California.

01:41:51.220 She's older, Jeannie is, and she was minding her own business, doing her job, when a much younger

01:41:57.220 woman, who we now know is named Michaela Ponce, P-O-N-C-E, came over and harassed poor Jeannie 1.00

01:42:04.960 over the fact that she was wearing a shirt honoring Charlie. And here is the video that we know of

01:42:13.220 because the videographer, Michaela Ponce, posted it to her TikTok. Saw at 26.

01:42:21.960 Let you wear that shirt here? Yes. Why? Why are you taking my picture?

01:42:27.840 Why are you wearing that shirt? You're working. It's not a Target shirt. It's a red shirt. I can wear

01:42:32.100 any red shirt. It's not a plain shirt. It doesn't have to be. It's a Charlie Kirk shirt.

01:42:38.720 Yes. Oh, yes, I know. Are you fucking stupid? No.

01:42:42.080 Why the fuck would you wear that? You're at work at Target. That's not a Target shirt. It's 1.00

01:42:47.460 not a plain red shirt. You support a racist. It's not racist. You support a racist. He's 0.95

01:42:56.100 not a racist. Yes, he is. Yes, he fucking is. I'm sorry, but I'm not going to stand here

01:43:01.140 and argue with you. You're not. You should go get your manager. You should not be allowed

01:43:03.980 to wear that at work. Unacceptable. Un-fucking-acceptable. That's your opinion. The opinion is he's a fucking

01:43:11.500 racist and you support him. That's your opinion, ma'am. And you should not be allowed to wear 1.00

01:43:16.740 that. This is going to be taken above your fucking head. That's insane. Insane. 1.00

01:43:23.020 It's infuriating. It's really, really infuriating. This is an older woman. Jeannie's obviously, 1.00

01:43:43.400 you know, not a spring chicken. And she's obviously not a rich woman. And she's working at Target, 0.99

01:43:49.520 paying her bills, making an honest living, trying to pick up after people. And she gets harassed by

01:43:56.200 this absolute prick, Michaela Ponce. And Michaela's so proud of herself for harassing Jeannie that Michaela 1.00

01:44:04.540 posts it on her own TikTok because she's looking for likes, Glenn. She's looking for thumbs up and

01:44:11.880 hearts and props from her leftist crowd that's going to think she's awesome for saying Charlie Kirk's a 1.00

01:44:18.520 racist and calling Jeannie fucking stupid. You're fucking stupid. Well, that's not how it went. 1.00

01:44:26.780 What happened since then is Michaela has, we've now found out, who works as a medical assistant

01:44:38.260 employed by Enloe Health, a nonprofit healthcare system in Chico, Northern California. Michaela's

01:44:45.060 place of employment, the medical center, has now received over 6,000 calls from some very upset

01:44:53.420 Charlie Kirk fans. Here is the CEO of Enloe Health, the employer of Michaela Ponce, who spoke out on it

01:45:01.940 the other day. Saw 27.

01:45:05.100 Enloe Health acknowledges that the off hours behavior by a medical assistant employed in one of our

01:45:11.800 allocation clinics, as depicted in a recent social media post, was abhorrent and deeply concerning.

01:45:18.580 We appreciate the many individuals who have seen this post and exercised restraint as they voice their

01:45:24.240 personal views regarding the situation. Unfortunately, many thousands of others have chosen to use profanity-laced

01:45:32.000 language to express their disapproval to Enloe caregivers. I believe there was a period of a few hours where we've

01:45:38.800 received over 6,000 calls. And those are starting to evade a little bit right now. I can tell from my own

01:45:47.020 email box that the emails are starting to subside a little bit. But yeah, we were overwhelmed there for a while.

01:45:53.740 That's Mike Wiltermood, the CEO. And had I had his number, I probably would have been one of the people

01:45:59.400 leaving a profanity-laced message like, Mike, what the fuck is going on with Michaela? She sucks because 1.00

01:46:06.240 you feel better when you express your outrage about her abject harassment of an elderly woman 1.00

01:46:11.020 just trying to pay her bills and honor Charlie Kirk while doing it, who was assassinated three months

01:46:16.740 ago. Now, clearly, Michaela has learned that there are millions of us who loved Charlie and have felt

01:46:25.860 inspired by his faith-based conservative messaging and who are 100% in Jeannie's corner because Michaela

01:46:34.020 has been forced to issue the following statement to Action News Now.

01:46:40.260 I want to take full responsibility for my actions and say clearly and sincerely that I was wrong.

01:46:45.020 I behaved badly and I regret it deeply. I want to directly apologize to Jeannie. I'm truly sorry

01:46:50.520 for approaching you at your workplace and putting you in an uncomfortable and unfair position.

01:46:54.580 You did not deserve that and my behavior was wrong. She's not, she hasn't changed her mind about

01:47:01.120 Charlie or apparently about thinking Jeannie's fucking stupid. She's sorry that she approached her 0.99

01:47:06.560 at work and acknowledges maybe Jeannie didn't deserve that. And I would submit to you the reason that

01:47:12.680 Michaela issued that statement is because old Mike Wiltermood is probably thinking about firing her ass 1.00

01:47:20.600 because of the 6,000 profanity-laced phone calls he's received. Now, let's check back in with Jeannie 0.99

01:47:26.740 at this point in our story and see how she's doing. She gave an interview and did not know that this had

01:47:34.700 turned into a thing because Jeannie's older and probably is not following Michaela on TikTok. But she did 0.95

01:47:41.680 speak to Action News Now on Wednesday. Watch.

01:47:46.280 I know people are calling for her to be fired for this. Do you think that that's right? Would you like

01:47:51.700 that to write? No, I don't think that's that's right. Like one thing I have is two wrongs don't make a

01:48:00.100 right. You know, she wronged me, but I don't want to wrong her or I don't want her her wrong because it's

01:48:08.000 not going to make it right. I mean, that was her opinion. She but she's the one that put it on

01:48:15.160 Facebook or put it on on that. So, you know, but I really wouldn't want to see her somebody lose

01:48:25.880 their job over it. That is so sweet. Jeannie is so sweet. I mean, it had it been me, I would have been

01:48:32.880 like, fire her ass, Mike. She's terrible. Why would you employ this person? But I'm a hothead on these 1.00

01:48:38.300 things. And here is the final piece of the story, Glenn, that will make you believe in the power of

01:48:45.940 the American people just one week before Christmas and in the middle of Hanukkah. Here it is.

01:48:53.320 Since the incident, multiple fundraising campaigns have been set up to help Jeannie from Target

01:49:00.200 recover from the incident. She wasn't fired. Target, to its credit, is standing by Jeannie and not

01:49:05.980 telling her she does not, she cannot wear that shirt. But people are, they just want to make Jeannie

01:49:10.340 feel good and show her that we love her. And they originally were trying to raise $20,000 to send

01:49:16.500 Jeannie on a nice vacation. When we last checked, the Give, Send, Go campaign had already raised over

01:49:24.480 $200,000 for Jeannie just to show her that we love her. So this story has it all. It's got the

01:49:34.600 outrage factor. It's got the benevolent Jeannie who didn't call for the firing. It's got the berated 0.99

01:49:40.800 Mike with Wilter Mood who would like the profanity lace phone calls to stop. And it's got our villain,

01:49:48.840 Michaela, who was very well forced into issuing an apology, which I'll take. It's better than no

01:49:57.700 apology. And the great American people who said, we love Jeannie and we're on her side and we want

01:50:04.460 her life to be better. So here's $200,000. All right, now tell me everything you think.

01:50:12.980 Well, first of all, I can't wait to go donate right when I'm done with this interview. And I'll tell you

01:50:16.580 why. It's not because she wore the Charlie Kirk shirt. It's because imagine the generosity of

01:50:23.220 spirit to have somebody. I mean, this is a woman who works at Target. That is a hard job. That is 0.96

01:50:29.600 not an easy life. She's making very poor money. And you can be filled with resentment. Obviously, 1.00

01:50:37.280 the woman that Michaela wanted her fired. So imagine running around and saying, no, I don't want her 1.00

01:50:42.840 fired just because she, she did that to me. That already is such an admirable person. Like how many

01:50:49.140 of us would, would react that way? As you said, like you're kind of a hothead. I don't know at all 0.93

01:50:54.240 that that would be my reaction, but I, I, I respected and admire it so much. But I also think there's

01:51:00.140 like this generational thing, which is like, I don't mind that people dislike Charlie Kirk's ideology.

01:51:06.640 He was a very political person. He had very strong political views. People disagreed with it.

01:51:10.840 That's totally fine. The idea though, that like, we now attack each other, like not politicians,

01:51:18.720 right? Like you can yell at politicians for the, you go into a target and see some like older woman 1.00

01:51:22.980 working because she has to at a very difficult job standing on her feet all day. And you're going

01:51:27.600 to berate her and attack her and film it and put it on the internet. Like you've done something noble.

01:51:32.560 That to me signifies like this very rotted spirit that has entered our discourse based on the idea

01:51:38.580 that anyone who has different political views than us is an evil person who should suffer in every

01:51:44.040 single way. And the fact that you have this one woman who's supposedly the villain, because she's 0.99

01:51:48.740 wearing a t-shirt of a racist, evil person being so clearly the better person while you have this

01:51:55.120 other woman, so self-righteous thinking she's so moral acting in a way that no matter your ideology 1.00

01:51:59.960 is so revolting. I think there's a lot of lessons in there that I hope people take away who are like

01:52:05.880 Michaela, but I doubt will. It does happen on both sides. There have been a lot of people who have been

01:52:10.880 attacked for other kinds of views for wearing. And I think we need to get back to the spirit that like

01:52:14.940 part of what is America, like part of what we love about it is that if you're a private citizen,

01:52:19.760 you can express whatever views you want and you don't lose your job over it. You don't get publicly

01:52:24.840 attacked for it. You know, that behavior needs to be scorned. And it was scorned in this case.

01:52:30.700 And the cherry on top is that that woman who displayed so much like moral kindness and generosity

01:52:36.640 of spirit got a just reward. Like it's so rare to have karmic justice like that on every aspect of 0.91

01:52:43.580 the story. So it is a really enjoyable one. It's one I hadn't heard. So I went with you on that journey

01:52:48.220 and was so happy at the end. Shout out to Jeannie for keeping it together in the moment too,

01:52:53.560 right? When your blood could really be boiling, you could be, you know, I'm sure she felt under

01:53:00.900 attack. The woman called her a piece of shit. She called her fucking stupid. She was saying that 1.00

01:53:07.460 she was supporting, yeah, threatened her job, which I'm sure Jeannie needs. Um, obviously was saying

01:53:13.720 that she supported a racist, which implies that Jeannie's racist. Like it had it all. And then she 0.75

01:53:18.460 tried to publicly shame Jeannie by putting on her TikTok, just waiting for all the likes. 0.70

01:53:24.220 Michaela just couldn't, she couldn't wait for everyone to give her props and, you know, finger

01:53:29.220 snaps. And the side of reason roared, roared. I love it. And I kind of do support the profanity-laced

01:53:39.080 phone calls, though it's not Mike's fault, but he heard us. He, Mike, sorry, sorry, Mike

01:53:44.840 Wilterspoon, um, Wiltermood, Wiltermood. It's an interesting name, CEO of California-based and low

01:53:50.340 health. But I do think you should keep an eye on this one, Mike, because I have a feeling Michaela,

01:53:56.420 uh, does not have a generosity of spirit when it comes to people who are on the right side of the

01:54:01.660 aisle who may indeed walk into your clinic one day wearing a Charlie Kirk shirt or not, but deserve to

01:54:07.860 be treated with respect and kindness, even if they happen to be right-leaning. So there's that,

01:54:13.500 Glenn. It's a nice story to end our segment with. Perfect ending, Megan. Absolutely. Reason and,

01:54:18.960 and sanity prevail, even in California. Great to see you, my friend. Have a Merry Christmas,

01:54:25.180 Happy Holidays, and we'll see you on the back end. Always great to see you, Megan. You too. Same to

01:54:29.820 your family. We'll see you shortly. Lots of love and thanks for everything this year. Uh, we are back

01:54:34.900 tomorrow with Buck Sexton. We'll see you then. Thanks for listening to The Megan Kelly Show. No BS,

01:54:42.040 no agenda, and no fear.

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01:55:07.980 have questions or concern about your gambling or the gambling of someone close to you,

01:55:10.760 please contact Connex Ontario at 1-866-531-2600 to speak to an advisor free of charge.

The Megyn Kelly Show - December 18, 2025

AOC vs. Vance, Bongino Leaving FBI, and Coldplay ＂Kiss Cam＂ Woman Speaks Out, with Glenn Greenwald ｜ Ep. 1216

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