The Megyn Kelly Show - Austin Metcalf's Father Speaks Out, Plus False Karmelo Anthony Narratives, and Blake Lively Legal Fees Ruling, with Mark Geragos and Arthur Aidala ｜ Ep. 1338

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00:01:25.520 out. Welcome to The Megyn Kelly Show, live on Sirius XM channel 111 every weekday at

00:01:31.620 New East. Hey everyone, I'm Megyn Kelly. Welcome to The Megyn Kelly Show. Happy Friday. And

00:01:42.760 on this Kelly's Court Day, we're going to have Mark Garagos and Arthur Idalla coming

00:01:46.800 up in just a minute. But we begin today with the continued fallout from the Carmelo Anthony

00:01:52.200 guilty verdict. In just moments, we are going to be speaking one-on-one with Jeff Metcalf.

00:01:58.560 He's the father of Austin Metcalf, the young 17-year-old boy who was killed by Carmelo Anthony

00:02:05.320 for no reason. There have been vile attacks on the Metcalf family in the wake of Austin's murder.

00:02:12.280 It is the strangest phenomenon I have seen in recent years where this community has turned

00:02:19.520 on the victim's family. They've done nothing other than mourn their son. And there are literally

00:02:28.560 people posting the most vile things about what they'd like to do to Austin's grave,

00:02:35.140 to Austin's brother, his twin brother Hunter, to Jeff Metcalf, his dad, to his mom. It's

00:02:41.200 something very bizarre is happening with this case. We'll talk about it and we'll talk with

00:02:46.460 Jeff Metcalf about this entire case in just a moment. But we're going to start with something

00:02:50.540 that we've been wanting to do as this case has unfolded and the parents of Carmelo Anthony have

00:02:58.780 come out and tried to spin a narrative. A little fact check is in order because the other reporters

00:03:05.880 refuse to do their jobs. They get these parents in front of them, Carmelo Anthony's, and they

00:03:12.600 allow them to spew lies about the Metcalf family or this case. And there's no challenge because

00:03:19.200 no one will do any homework. No one does their homework. And they just want to allow them to

00:03:23.920 spin this narrative. And it's bullshit. So we're not going to do that here. We are going to correct 1.00

00:03:28.400 the record so that you know what's real and what's not. We played a few clips yesterday, but

00:03:34.480 we're going to play a few more today. All right. Now, it began with the parents of Carmelo Anthony,

00:03:40.240 the murderer, their description of the aftermath of the murder, where they claim

00:03:45.300 that Hunter Metcalf, the surviving twin, is lying about his twin brother, Austin Metcalf,

00:03:53.340 dying in his arms. We played this yesterday from an interview with The Breakfast Club's

00:03:58.480 Mimi Brown, but here it is again. Watch. Did Carmelo want to get his story out more to the

00:04:03.580 public as well he was he was trying to listen he was trying to listen to what he was being advised

00:04:10.400 you know hey don't make it about race don't do this don't don't do this so we're like all right

00:04:17.200 we go again we we we played the the game they wanted we did everything a lot by the citizen

00:04:28.080 supposed to they told us don't do this we did with everything we we supposed to and he wanted

00:04:34.000 people yeah of course he wanted somebody you got they got pictures of him being 17 with a dress on

00:04:39.660 saying he'll be raped in jail like all kind of these adult adults are talking about this child

00:04:45.060 but nobody's seeing it like nobody's seeing it so we can't say anything the the other family they

00:04:51.700 go paint this lie that's nobody still exposed that he died in his brother arms and it was all

00:04:58.060 that's not true because that is a narrative no no you never heard it no more that that was a

00:05:04.420 neither of those parents was actually there uh at the track meet and carmelo's mom kayla hayes

00:05:11.980 who you saw there said she had been planning to go to the track meet but decided not to because

00:05:16.640 of the weather. So she wasn't there. We know that for a fact. Hunter was there. He's been

00:05:21.940 100% consistent in describing what happened. Here he is with Fox's Will Kane the day after the

00:05:27.720 murder. I jumped over there, asked him to move, got aggressive, grabbed the bag. And then I whipped

00:05:34.380 my head around. And then all of a sudden, I see him running down the bleach, just grabbing his

00:05:38.660 chest. He just bought a restaurant out. He got stabbed. He got stabbed. First, I froze for half

00:05:46.240 a second i didn't know what to do and then i saw him how to fall i would go over there

00:05:52.880 i grabbed him i see

00:05:56.000 you can picture what what happened when you know what was what was coming out of his chest and

00:06:04.460 yeah yeah y'all can visualize other stuff i want to put down my mom right now but

00:06:09.360 i put my hand i pushed my hand on there trying to make it stop and i grabbed his head and i 0.95

00:06:13.920 left in his eyes.

00:06:17.760 I just

00:06:18.500 saw his soul leave

00:06:21.180 and it took my soul, too.

00:06:24.480 I saw his soul leave

00:06:26.020 and it took my soul, too.

00:06:28.480 He tried to save his twin brother.

00:06:31.300 He couldn't

00:06:31.860 describe holding him.

00:06:33.580 How dare this family go out there

00:06:35.300 and try to question his account

00:06:36.780 as a lie?

00:06:38.260 They know nothing.

00:06:39.640 They know absolutely nothing.

00:06:41.340 hunter was not asked to take the witness stand during the course of the trial but the testimony

00:06:48.400 given did back up his version of events the prosecution's fifth witness in the case was

00:06:52.540 joshua redmond an army veteran and defensive coordinator at liberty high school redmond

00:06:58.020 testified that he noticed the commotion and he ran to the scene after carmelo stabbed austin

00:07:03.140 according to nbc5 in dallas redmond had to move hunter away from austin's body

00:07:08.920 and that Hunter was, quote, freaking out, move him away so that they could give him medical care.

00:07:16.220 After seeing Austin's wounds, Redmond testified, quote, I knew he was gone.

00:07:22.400 Now look at what Carmelo's dad told CBS's Jonah Kaplan about the jury.

00:07:29.280 Take us inside that courtroom. What stuck out to you?

00:07:32.960 What stuck out to me, number one, was the all-white jury.

00:07:36.420 but I was trying to be, you know, like, all right, it's not that big of a deal. I mean,

00:07:41.500 the truth is on our side. Okay, this is totally false. First of all, the truth was never on their

00:07:47.440 side, ever. The truth is his son murdered somebody in cold blood for no reason. That's

00:07:52.500 going to land everyone in jail for decades, minimum. This kid got off easy with a 35-year

00:07:57.880 sentence, easy. He easily could have been put away for life. I was just listening to a case

00:08:03.520 in Nebraska, if you commit a murder, you go away for life, period. That's it. That's the penalty

00:08:08.720 you get in Nebraska. You take somebody's life in a murder, you're going away for life. A life for

00:08:14.420 a life. That's how it works. He is so lucky that he got only 35 years and could be eligible for

00:08:19.940 parole in 17. He could get out of jail at age 34 with time served. I mean, you got your whole life

00:08:29.940 ahead of you, which is more than we can say for poor Austin Metcalf. But putting that to the side,

00:08:35.440 it is a lie that this was an all white jury. This is a lie being spun by race hustlers who want to 0.92

00:08:41.840 stoke up racial animus in the wake of this totally just verdict. There were no black people on the 0.86

00:08:49.400 jury, but it wasn't all white. Oh, by the way, why were there no black people on the jury?

00:08:53.300 Because we had black jurors testifying. I'll give you an example of potential black jurors.

00:08:59.940 testifying things like this, quote, I don't know if I'd feel right putting a brother in jail. 0.99

00:09:05.180 Yes, you will be dismissed from the jury every single time for that kind of nonsense, sir. 0.98

00:09:11.800 That's why we had no black people on the jury. It wasn't because the prosecution was biased 0.97

00:09:17.600 or didn't like black people or didn't think black people could come to a sane, just verdict.

00:09:22.740 But you can't put any juror, black, white, Hispanic or otherwise, and the jury with statements like

00:09:28.120 that. Irrespective, this was not an all-white jury. There were multiple minorities. According

00:09:35.600 to Fox News Digital, of the 12 jurors, there were three racial minorities, including Asian and

00:09:40.240 Indian. Eight were women, four were men. Of the 18 total jurors, including alternates, so when they

00:09:46.520 cast you back there, when they choose the 18, the prosecution and the defense have no idea

00:09:51.300 who's going to be whom, six were minorities. So everybody needs to knock it off with this

00:09:59.180 all-white jury narrative. It's not true. All right. And now here's more from Carmelo Anthony's

00:10:06.180 parents here, the mother, Kayla, who had this to say about the witnesses at trial.

00:10:11.500 All of the witnesses' statements and stories were inconsistent. So we thinking that the jury

00:10:18.980 is going to notice that but they already had their mind made up when they sat in that courtroom 1.00

00:10:25.540 their mind was made up already all right first of all this idiot doing the interview is sitting 1.00

00:10:32.840 there with about 10 000 pounds of false eyelashes on just nodding herself yes her head yes i guarantee 1.00

00:10:38.700 you this woman didn't watch two minutes of the trial she's just going with the narrative that 0.97

00:10:43.140 is her preferred narrative she doesn't know anything she has no idea whether the witnesses 0.55

00:10:47.500 were consistent or not, clearly. I understand the mother's grief at what has happened with her son,

00:10:53.980 but your job as a reporter is to stay factual and to not facilitate lies on your air. I realize

00:11:01.080 it's, quote, the breakfast club, which nobody's really turning to for truly factual coverage

00:11:06.040 about a trial. But do better, madam. If you're going to get into this game, do better. 0.85

00:11:11.080 the witnesses were consistent they just all went against carmelo's case here's the daily

00:11:19.500 mail's marianne martinez who was in the courtroom posting on x friday quote we have now heard from

00:11:25.100 six teens who were at the stadium the day austin metcalf was stabbed by carmelo anthony

00:11:29.720 four out of the six are black all have testified that carmelo anthony was asked to leave the

00:11:36.580 Memorial High School team tent, provoked Austin Metcalf, and pulled a knife before or while

00:11:42.800 Austin had even pushed Carmelo. There was total consistency on that. And here's what Marianne

00:11:49.920 reported Saturday. They had the trial on Saturday, which was unusual, but it happened. Quote,

00:11:56.460 today we've heard from five additional kids, six yesterday, five today, in the Carmelo-Anthony

00:12:01.720 trial. They're all telling the same story. Carmelo was not known or wanted underneath

00:12:07.300 the Memorial High School tent. Multiple kids asked him to leave, and he refused.

00:12:13.040 The truth is, whatever inconsistencies there were of note came from the defense witnesses.

00:12:19.760 One defense witness had to admit he was wrong when he told police that Carmelo was surrounded

00:12:25.880 in the tent before the stabbing. He'd been trying to paint a picture like these kids

00:12:32.340 from Memorial High School had been like ganging up on him, surrounding him, and therefore he was

00:12:36.440 threatened. That was bullshit. He was forced to concede on the stand that Carmelo was only 1.00

00:12:41.800 surrounded after he stabbed and murdered Austin Metcalf. From CBS, Texas, quote, prosecution,

00:12:49.120 you had a few things wrong when we talked. Is that right? Witness, yes, sir. Prosecution,

00:12:54.140 your initial statement to police that you saw Carmelo Anthony surrounded had to be after the

00:12:59.400 stabbing. Yes, said the witness. You had a story in your head when we visited, correct? Yes.

00:13:06.040 After a few more lines of questions, they continued. Prosecution, my impression when we first met,

00:13:10.680 you thought when you saw people surrounding Carmelo Anthony, it was before the stabbing.

00:13:15.640 Yes, sir. That was actually after the stabbing, asked the prosecutor. Witness, I couldn't really

00:13:22.160 tell. Prosecution, when you and I met, you told me you thought it was before the stabbing. Witness,

00:13:28.140 I thought it was as the stabbing was happening. Prosecution, you know you're wrong. Witness,

00:13:34.540 yes. Yes, sir. And then moving on, we get this story from Carmelo's father that Carmelo

00:13:43.120 wasn't trying to leave the scene after he plunged a knife for no reason into Austin Metcalfe's heart,

00:13:51.300 that he simply had just gone over to a teacher for a hug after this dastardly deed.

00:13:59.040 Watch.

00:13:59.300 And so the video that you all, that they showed in court, it shows him running away from...

00:14:09.760 Yeah, he ran to a teacher.

00:14:11.760 The teacher said that the teacher he ran to, he ran to a guy,

00:14:15.300 and the teacher he ran to

00:14:18.240 actually

00:14:19.220 he hugged him

00:14:24.420 because Camillo

00:14:25.140 he's not like that, he hugged the guy

00:14:27.760 he was freaking out, he hugged the guy

00:14:29.920 so the guy

00:14:31.080 was hugging, he was crying hysterically

00:14:34.120 and

00:14:35.320 they tried to paint it as if he was trying to leave

00:14:40.540 but then

00:14:42.100 in court

00:14:42.740 court they should they said it that he wasn't finally yeah what would be a good way of getting

00:14:51.100 that testimony in um in order to give your son's defense maybe put him on the witness stand

00:14:57.120 but you chose not to do that you chose not to make the case that it was self-defense through

00:15:02.240 carmelo nor that he didn't flee through carmelo you just you want to get your your helpful facts

00:15:09.180 out now after the trial's over? That's not how it works, sir. Now, what he said there is partially

00:15:15.120 true based on witness testimony, but it leaves out some key facts. See, according to CBS Texas,

00:15:20.220 Carmelo only went to that teacher after he was first stopped by Memorial High School athletic

00:15:26.080 trainer Tiffany Whitaker. The teacher, who is Heritage High School coach Vincent Hooper,

00:15:31.620 testified that Whitaker handed Anthony to him, saying, do not let him leave. That's also

00:15:39.220 according to CBS Texas. He wasn't just looking for a supportive hug. He was not free to leave

00:15:44.580 because they realized he had just committed a murder. And here's more color from Sarah Fields

00:15:49.540 on X. Quote, Tiffany Whitaker, the athletic trainer with Memorial High School, testified

00:15:54.160 that she got in front of Anthony as he was running, put her hands up to keep him from

00:16:01.320 leaving, and yelled at Coach Vincent Hooper, hey, this kid stabbed someone. Don't let him leave.

00:16:07.720 This is when Coach Hooper put his arms around Carmelo in a hugging fashion

00:16:12.160 to prevent him from leaving the stadium. That's what happened. That's what the testimony was at

00:16:21.140 trial. And yet this Drew Anthony gets up there to say, and you saw the long pause. That's the

00:16:26.860 long pause of a liar searching for a story. And he spoon fed it to this moron to say, oh, 1.00

00:16:36.200 you just needed a hug. Where was her homework to say, wrong, sir. The trial testimony suggested 1.00

00:16:43.040 he was stopped physically by a coach who had just received a holler from someone else saying,

00:16:48.980 stop him he just stabbed someone this is ridiculous all right here moving on is what

00:16:56.400 carmelo's parents had to say about carmelo not taking the witness stand watch and did carmelo

00:17:01.700 want to testify in his own uh on his own behalf and and was it was based on everything it didn't

00:17:09.700 need nothing because everything they said on their self-defense they have to prove it they never

00:17:14.360 approved okay so that was never that was because i know there was this pause and a lot of people

00:17:20.440 thought that you know we were going to come back and he was going to take the stand and he didn't

00:17:25.400 so that was never an option that had never been discussed of him taking the stand

00:17:29.640 that's why we just needed a new it we need we need somebody who's gonna fight that's what i

00:17:35.640 I'm going to say right now, we just need somebody going to fight for him.

00:17:40.800 It's not an answer.

00:17:43.000 Because the whole thing was he provoked it.

00:17:46.480 That was the whole, the entire case he provoked it.

00:17:52.280 That's what the whole thing was.

00:17:58.100 That's not an answer.

00:18:00.340 Okay.

00:18:00.980 She said, she's asking why he didn't take the witness stand.

00:18:04.460 He's just meandering.

00:18:05.980 He doesn't want to give it up.

00:18:07.680 I'll tell you right now why he didn't want to take the witness stand.

00:18:10.340 He was obviously going to make a terrible witness.

00:18:12.560 Terrible witness.

00:18:14.020 And my suspicion is it's because he has zero regrets.

00:18:17.260 He's not sorry at all.

00:18:19.280 At all. 0.58

00:18:20.260 He's an aggrieved young man, taught racial grievance,

00:18:23.920 most likely from his parents,

00:18:25.600 who hired the biggest race hustler in Texas as their family spokesperson.

00:18:30.240 There is zero chance if Carmelo Anthony would have made a compelling witness, if he really were the sweet kid just running around looking for hugs, that he would not have wound up on that stand, my friends.

00:18:41.500 That's how you make a self-defense defense.

00:18:44.740 That's not what happened.

00:18:46.960 And what he's saying there, in any event, is not true.

00:18:50.200 The jury not only convicted Carmelo, they rejected his sudden passion defense that would have knocked down his conviction to only a second-degree felony.

00:18:58.680 They just weren't buying what the defense was selling at all.

00:19:03.580 Have you noticed the shirts that they're wearing, too?

00:19:06.940 They say, the parents here, hashtag believe Carmelo.

00:19:11.040 How are we supposed to believe him if he didn't say anything in his own defense?

00:19:16.620 We have no idea what Carmelo's position is.

00:19:20.240 He hasn't spoken one word.

00:19:23.240 What do you mean, believe Carmelo?

00:19:25.480 What the F is that? 1.00

00:19:26.480 some weird take on believe all women, which was also bullshit. There's no one to believe. You 1.00

00:19:32.520 people are, I understand, upset parents, but you don't deserve our presumption of truth tellers.

00:19:40.520 You haven't earned it. We don't believe you, and your son has given us absolutely nothing to hold

00:19:45.280 on to whatsoever. And you heard in that soundbite some animosity toward Carmelo's attorney, Mike

00:19:51.340 Howard, who is white. They claimed that's the reason that they hired them, him, because they

00:19:57.760 were advised to hire a white guy. Watch. Everybody kept saying, hey, to beat this, to beat this,

00:20:05.580 I even went to some black attorneys. They're like, oh, you need a white, you need a white 0.96

00:20:09.200 attorney to go out there to fight out there. Remember they were telling us that? 0.66

00:20:13.080 So do you believe your son received a fair trial?

00:20:16.420 No.

00:20:16.800 Absolutely not.

00:20:17.520 Absolutely not.

00:20:18.220 Absolutely not. And we're going to keep fighting.

00:20:21.340 Who would not stop fighting for justice for myself?

00:20:25.940 But was there at any point that you felt the outcome was heading in this direction?

00:20:32.940 No.

00:20:33.920 Everybody lied.

00:20:36.040 Look at the report.

00:20:37.320 Everybody, everybody.

00:20:39.260 Why didn't the defense call more witnesses?

00:20:43.940 That's not my department, and I apologize for that.

00:20:47.780 Because there was no one who could help him.

00:20:49.380 because all the witnesses, 0.85

00:20:52.180 hello, Mimi, the white ones and the black ones,

00:20:55.420 said it was exactly as Austin Metcalfe's defenders said,

00:21:00.880 that Carmelo Anthony went into a tent

00:21:03.140 he wasn't invited into,

00:21:04.940 that the teams did not sit together.

00:21:07.660 It was highly unusual for someone to do this.

00:21:10.300 It was basically considered a provocation

00:21:12.340 that multiple, multiple people went over to Carmelo

00:21:16.400 to say, please leave.

00:21:17.360 He wouldn't.

00:21:18.100 that when Austin, who'd been asked by a coach

00:21:21.580 to be a leader in the tent that day,

00:21:24.320 keep order, make sure nothing happened

00:21:27.520 that was going to lead to a bad result.

00:21:29.380 That's why he wanted him to leave.

00:21:30.980 I'm sure Austin saw this could spiral into something

00:21:33.800 because it was, you know, an enemy,

00:21:36.680 as that term is used in sports, in your home camp.

00:21:41.160 No one allows that.

00:21:42.840 Can you imagine a spur getting up at the Knicks game

00:21:45.420 and going sitting down on the Knicks bench?

00:21:47.120 That doesn't happen. So he went over to say, you need to leave. And the first response was, I'm an aggrieved person who felt put upon. Like, you just make me go ahead and try to make me see what happens. All right, tough guy. Right. That's he was looking for a fight.

00:22:09.380 He knew he had a knife in his bag.

00:22:11.840 I've been saying for days now, I could easily make the case as a prosecutor that this whole

00:22:17.260 thing was a setup, that he went there with murder in mind.

00:22:19.980 Why else would he have brought that knife to a track meet into a tent?

00:22:25.840 Why else would he have dared Austin Metcalfe to put hands on him?

00:22:29.100 And then Austin does in a way that didn't even knock him into the man next to him, Carmelo,

00:22:33.720 and his aunt before he can even be rattled in his seat.

00:22:38.040 He's got a knife in the guy's chest.

00:22:40.860 Okay, that's the reason we didn't have more witnesses.

00:22:44.620 The lawyer for Carmelo Anthony was not talented.

00:22:47.800 There's no question.

00:22:48.640 He wasn't.

00:22:49.600 However, the reason there was not a parade of witnesses

00:22:52.140 is they did not exist.

00:22:54.160 They weren't there.

00:22:55.480 He cannot manufacture someone out of thin air.

00:22:58.340 So now they seem to be saying

00:23:00.940 they wanted more of a fighter as an attorney.

00:23:03.720 These people raised over $600,000 on Give, Send, Go for Carmelo's defense.

00:23:10.000 Lots of good lawyers would have been eager to take that kind of fee, not to mention the publicity this trial would generate.

00:23:16.280 A lot of lawyers love that.

00:23:17.940 But instead, they went with Mike Howard.

00:23:20.260 Did they do any research?

00:23:22.120 Do they have access to Google?

00:23:24.540 Because this is what Mike Howard posted on February 4th, 2025, almost two months before Austin was murdered.

00:23:32.460 Did he telegraph? I will be a shark for you. I will be fierce in a courtroom for you. I will

00:23:38.280 take no prisoners for you. You tell me. So what kind of lawyer do you want? Do you want an

00:23:47.260 aggressive junkyard dog who's going to fight for you hard? Or do you want somebody who has a

00:23:52.780 reputation as easy to get along with? The answer might surprise you. While, of course, it's

00:23:59.800 important to have somebody who fights for your rights and stands up for you. If they are that

00:24:04.960 aggressive junkyard dog, the risk can be that they end up being obnoxious or offensive to judges,

00:24:15.160 to prosecutors, and even to juries if your case goes to trial. I have cultivated a reputation

00:24:20.320 at the courthouses in which I work as somebody who fights for their clients. And if you go to trial,

00:24:26.100 I'm going to give you a hard fought trial, but who's easy to work with, easy to get along with

00:24:33.260 and reasonable. That ends up benefiting my clients. Okay. I'm sorry, but you have yourselves to blame

00:24:42.240 a concept with which you should really familiarize yourselves that you have yourselves to blame

00:24:47.420 for the way your son turned out for the way his trial turned out for the way your lives turned

00:24:54.180 doubt. What happened to the $600,000, by the way? Where is that? Because just today, yesterday,

00:24:59.660 he already filed for an appeal of the verdict and is pleading indigency, that he is, quote,

00:25:07.040 penniless. So where's the money? Did it all go to this guy, Mike Howard? Or did it go to your

00:25:12.420 mansion that you hung out in over the past year while you claimed you were receiving threats,

00:25:17.520 driving around, living large? I'd love to know. Look, it's painfully obvious that Carmelo Anthony's

00:25:24.160 parents let him down in numerous ways and i want to end here okay on something that is actually

00:25:31.460 largely true that anthony's father drew anthony said watch he said it in court yesterday forgot

00:25:39.400 he said that they told my son to look at me when i'm talking to you who said that the dad the son

00:25:46.240 both of them said look at me why are we talking like oh it's gonna come out they said look at me

00:25:51.760 while we're talking what yeah they they did say look me in the eyes i i don't know how drew anthony

00:26:04.840 knows that because he didn't bother to show up during the sentencing and victim impact statements

00:26:09.380 he couldn't bother to be there for his son in that moment he peaced out of there but back to

00:26:16.180 what Drew claimed in that soundbite. Yeah. Hunter Metcalf, Austin's twin, and Jeff, his dad,

00:26:23.200 did reportedly ask Carmelo to look them in the eyes during their victim impact statements,

00:26:26.720 and Carmelo didn't. He only briefly looked at Hunter one time. He couldn't bear to look in the

00:26:35.880 eye the people whose lives he changed forever. He couldn't even give them that courtesy.

00:26:42.580 And this family has not only failed to offer any courtesy or condolences to the Metcalf family, they are directly responsible for the hell that was unleashed on them one year ago, that has been continuing ever since the day their son was killed, and that has gone on steroids since this verdict, this just supported verdict of guilty against Carmelo Anthony.

00:27:11.560 The community, a faction of the black community in Texas and a faction of the black community that is in media has turned on the victims, on this poor family, still suffering, and tried to demonize them somehow, rooting for harm, legal or otherwise, to happen to the twin brother Hunter?

00:27:39.320 openly, forgive me, talking about urinating on Austin's grave, celebrating the thought of it? 0.84

00:27:50.180 It's despicable. Joining us now is the man Carmelo could not seem to face,

00:27:59.160 Jeff Metcalf. He's the father of Austin Metcalf.

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00:28:55.420 Megan for an exclusive 20% off. That's code Megan for an exclusive 20% off. And if you see a post

00:29:01.720 Purchase Survey. Mention that you heard about Cozy Earth right here. Jeff, welcome to the show.

00:29:08.440 I am so, so sorry for your loss and for what has been happening to your family. Thank you for this

00:29:14.080 time. Can I just start with your reaction to the disgusting blowback that your family is receiving 0.98

00:29:23.500 now for some reason in the wake of this guilty verdict? I mean, to be honest, it doesn't make

00:29:29.360 any sense to me at all uh if you're just a average normal human being that has empathy and compassion

00:29:36.780 for your fellow man you don't act that way i the moral decay of society today is rampant and the

00:29:46.820 only people that can fix it are us the ones who exist at this very moment to make sure you teach

00:29:52.540 your kids right from wrong and guide them and give and give them love and guidance and

00:29:59.140 let them grow and become a contributing factor of a member of society.

00:30:05.880 The moment the verdict came down and you heard them say guilty, what what did you feel?

00:30:15.360 Realistically, I mean, there was a sense of relief and it was going to be a sense of relief

00:30:21.500 no matter what was said. I just needed to get through this timeframe of this process.

00:30:28.120 It's been a long time since my son was murdered and not being able to speak,

00:30:34.860 why my dead son's being drug through the mud, memes, pictures. But let me make one thing clear.

00:30:42.960 That has went on from both sides, and I don't condone any of it. I've seen the things that

00:30:48.940 they've made about carmelo and it's disgusting it's it's it's just as vile as the things that

00:30:55.740 are done about my son and and and those people that are so far left or so far right that has

00:31:03.040 the the need to attack a dead child or a child that's going to prison or a child any child

00:31:10.220 it doesn't sit well with me um you know he's going to have to take you know the consequences

00:31:18.240 for his actions, but we don't need piling on.

00:31:24.220 I mean, this has been a tragedy for both families.

00:31:28.140 Unfortunately, you know, the Anthony still continue to deflect from the truth.

00:31:32.520 The truth has been out there.

00:31:35.280 The truth was exposed.

00:31:37.440 There was no phone one.

00:31:39.280 There was no broken phone.

00:31:40.860 All the lies have been debunked.

00:31:43.520 uh and if they were at the trial during sentencing or during impact statement uh they would have some

00:31:51.140 more information but they chose to abandon their child at that point and let him be there by

00:31:55.860 himself that alone to me says a lot about their parenting skills and who they are as people

00:32:02.400 that's a true reflection of their character it has nothing at all to do with me

00:32:06.900 have you come to know anything about carmelo anthony in the past year because he's said

00:32:14.220 nothing always seen from the parents is some racial grievance and just fact revision that

00:32:21.700 bears no relation to what actually happened inside the trial and the fact that they represented

00:32:26.420 themselves as a with a with a spokesperson who is undoubtedly a race hustler he's been injecting

00:32:31.880 race into this case from the very beginning, this Dominique Alexander. But have you been

00:32:36.660 able to learn anything about Carmelo Anthony this past year? No, ma'am. Nothing. All I know

00:32:43.960 is he was put on house arrest and he got to enjoy his freedom as he gets to stay at home and play

00:32:48.760 video games and eat pizza and have friends over and gets to go to the library, gets to go get his

00:32:53.560 haircut, still basically still gets to live until the trial. I knew nothing. I don't know where they

00:33:00.380 live i don't they don't communicate um i mean ever since the press conference when i came to

00:33:05.860 try to bridge the gap and they had me removed you know dominique alexander proceeded to gaslight me

00:33:10.640 um you know he acted like you know he had this professional security team which actually

00:33:15.780 he dps has already found him guilty of operating a security team that's not licensed

00:33:22.260 uh this person has floundered and all he wants to do is uh infomercials for ngan and he really is

00:33:31.480 i call him minister irrelevant because that's who he really is he just he wants his 15 minutes of

00:33:36.600 fame he wants to give the anthony's bad advice and take their money and that's what he did and

00:33:43.020 from what i understand now there's maybe a little bit uh infighting on that side of the camp i heard

00:33:47.800 that Tiffany Billions was blaming Dominique Alexander for the sentence that he received.

00:33:53.280 No, the sentence he received was too light to begin with. But he's lucky he got 35. Because

00:33:59.420 as my ex-wife pointed out, me, her, and Hunter, and the rest of our family, we've all been served

00:34:05.940 a life sentence. Not to mention, if your son killed a black 17-year-old in this manner,

00:34:15.460 just shoving a knife in his heart after the black boy had literally just placed a hand 0.99

00:34:21.940 on your son, he absolutely would have been sent to jail for the rest of his life. There's just no 0.99

00:34:27.140 way. They gave him a gift with this 35-year-old sentence. He'll be out with good behavior,

00:34:34.940 possibly before he's 35 years old. So I have no empathy for these claims that this was somehow

00:34:41.620 that the book was thrown at him or the sentence was unjust. If it was unjust in any way, it was

00:34:46.660 unjust to Austin, not to Carmelo Anthony. This Dominique Alexander, the family spokesperson,

00:34:53.340 is a baby beater. He's a convicted baby abuser. He seems to get off crushing little two-year-old 0.99

00:35:02.020 babies. And that's not a matter of dispute. Here he is this week in reaction to the verdict on

00:35:09.340 the Late Night with Mama Monique podcast, SOP 20.

00:35:14.000 Carmelo is all of our babies.

00:35:16.240 Most people know him as a hashtag and a name.

00:35:18.640 I know that baby.

00:35:19.940 What matters is that a baby was railroaded in a courtroom.

00:35:26.240 He's a baby who was railroaded.

00:35:28.840 This is the narrative that they're spinning, Jeff.

00:35:30.800 And it's taking hold, as you've seen.

00:35:33.800 I mean, is it stunning to you that there are people out there

00:35:36.100 believing this nonsense?

00:35:38.200 No.

00:35:39.340 There are people out there that voted for their favorite political person based on color.

00:35:45.660 It doesn't work that way.

00:35:47.460 I mean, let's just deal with facts and truth, not spin webs to create narratives that benefit you.

00:35:56.680 Let's just be truthful.

00:35:58.740 As he always says, let me be clear.

00:36:00.880 He can't be clear about anything other than he can clearly lie, misrepresent, and grift from other people.

00:36:10.480 That's his M.O.

00:36:13.620 When your family was leaving the courtroom the day of the verdict,

00:36:19.240 and you were followed by these activists outside of the courthouse

00:36:23.960 who've been shouting the most vile things

00:36:26.560 about your deceased boy and you guys possible.

00:36:31.920 And you had Hunter with you.

00:36:33.860 What was that like?

00:36:36.260 Okay, we need to clarify this.

00:36:38.140 Okay, that's not the truth.

00:36:40.060 Okay, first of all,

00:36:41.420 we were escorted in and out of the courtroom

00:36:45.980 with security and driven to an offsite,

00:36:49.480 undisclosed location.

00:36:51.460 What you're referring to

00:36:53.160 were four individuals who were friends of Hunter and Austin's and they were coming after the trial

00:37:01.620 to meet us where we were at the undisclosed location and there was a mix-up by the Collin

00:37:08.720 County Courthouse as far as security procedures and they let them walk out without any protection

00:37:14.860 whatsoever. They were immediately surrounded to trying to get to their car and these are

00:37:21.880 17 18 year old kids friends of hunter and austin's one was a female three were male

00:37:30.020 the things they said you know we're gonna you know we're gonna piss on austin's grave

00:37:35.280 you know we're glad that austin's dead just continual vile outbreak and trying to really

00:37:41.320 disturb them and impede their progress and you know they finally made it to the car they made

00:37:46.740 to us. They were visibly shaken, crying, upset. I was upset, one, because of the security,

00:37:54.280 the lapse of security. But it just goes to show how this certain set of a certain subculture,

00:38:02.300 and I mean very small percentage. I'm not trying to pick on any certain race, but I am going to

00:38:08.000 identify one subculture of a race that does continue this type of behavior. I don't think

00:38:13.780 it represents the entire race um i mean i have many friends of different ethnicities uh color 0.98

00:38:20.740 race gender uh you know like i said before uh i am racist against assholes i don't care what 0.92

00:38:28.160 color you are but if you treat me with disrespect i will give it back to you uh as far as the 0.98

00:38:32.860 anthony's uh they're just in a constant state of denial and i mean it's a hard i mean it would be

00:38:38.400 hard for me to accept that my son is a murderer. But the difference between me and them would be

00:38:44.220 I would hold my son accountable. I would make him apologize. And I myself would reach out and

00:38:50.380 apologize and ask, is there anything I can do? I am so sorry. This is terrible. My son made a

00:38:56.420 mistake. Yes, he did. He's going to have to pay for it. But the lack of remorse, the lack of

00:39:03.760 humility and all you want to stand up there and give me some fake crocodile tears same ones i saw

00:39:09.560 at the press conference that you're going to try to look you know ask for sympathy or more money

00:39:14.540 or whatever you need all i can tell you what you need god in your life but and if you and if you

00:39:21.080 and if you already have it trust him and lean into his understanding and and stop spreading lies

00:39:26.500 and just accept the truth the truth was presented in the court more than one more than 10 more than

00:39:35.580 15 more than 20 people testified there was no mistrial of justice there was all white

00:39:47.540 jerry there was many minorities and and and like you know you can't fill out your form stating

00:39:53.720 you're biased if you expect to be picked as a juror that just totally eliminates you um everything

00:39:59.940 about this thing was fair and to me i'm not being able to speak did i feel like that was fair no

00:40:07.360 while they all have t-shirt sales and and activists on tiktoks every night monetizing

00:40:15.540 making money telling lies and while i stand here and just have to keep my mouth shut uh my house

00:40:22.160 has been swatted my ex-wives have been swatted they talk about the stuff they've lived through

00:40:26.400 now yes maybe you experienced something but nothing on the level that we have experienced

00:40:34.340 and and i feel sorry for them if they experience anything and like i said before i don't condone

00:40:40.360 all the social media memes and and derogatory comments because i know how it feels because

00:40:46.900 your side has done it to me four times as much as they're doing it to you but either way

00:40:51.160 two wrongs still don't make a right so you know uh crazy has no color love doesn't see color

00:41:00.260 hate doesn't see color um and for people to see the color they really should look at themselves

00:41:06.980 in the mirror and reevaluate who you are and how are you a piece of society are you part of the

00:41:13.420 problem are you part of the solution so you know hopefully in this world uh i'm only i'll probably

00:41:19.340 only got another 20, 30 years, but I'm more worried about the future and what we're teaching

00:41:23.700 our children right now. And I'm sorry if you teach, if I, I can only hop, I can only guess

00:41:33.420 if that boy was raised differently, maybe I don't know why. And the biggest question that really

00:41:39.680 I'll never get answered, uh, is why, why did you not get up on the stand and tell your story?

00:41:46.420 if this was true why did you not defend yourself why did you and it's your whole case is about

00:41:53.060 self-defense but yet you chose not even to defend yourself and your parents abandoned you

00:42:00.280 during sentencing and victim impact statement actions speak louder than words i don't have to

00:42:08.420 say anything you guys smear your own name without me having to point it out everybody in america

00:42:16.800 sees how we're all acting and it's it's a damn shame that spoke volumes when the parents wouldn't

00:42:22.580 wouldn't even stand there and there was nobody else man who did his son have like the parents

00:42:27.920 abandoned their son at the at the toughest moment when he was going to find out how much of his life

00:42:31.840 was going to be spent in a cage they peaced out have they said that they're sorry at all jeff

00:42:37.140 Has anyone from the Anthony family reached out to you or any of your family members to apologize, to express regrets, to see how you are throughout this whole thing?

00:42:46.720 No, ma'am.

00:42:49.040 Not one time.

00:42:51.060 Wow.

00:42:52.480 And how about now?

00:42:53.880 Do you feel safe in your own home?

00:42:55.320 Does your ex-wife feel safe in hers, your son?

00:42:57.960 I mean, are you—

00:42:58.740 Well, I mean, I can't—

00:42:59.740 Do you feel threatened at all?

00:43:00.560 I can't speak for my ex-wife, but I myself, yeah, I'm very safe.

00:43:05.520 I mean, I am not worried about my personal safety. I'm able to protect myself. It would be another devastating travesty if someone was to try to interject and approach me.

00:43:22.580 the uh website tmz is reporting today that your family's getting inundated with dozens

00:43:31.700 of death threats and other hateful messages following the conviction um is that true yes it

00:43:38.020 is yeah it's a daily it's a daily occurrence um that you know i've turned it over to law

00:43:45.900 enforcement i really don't want to comment too much on it that they're going to handle it but

00:43:49.900 It's a daily occurrence of, you know, vile text, actual phone calls that actually, you know, they want to talk to me.

00:43:59.720 It's it at some point, you know, they're going to have to get tired of it and go on.

00:44:05.380 So, I mean, what's done is done. The verdict is out. Yeah, you can file for appeal.

00:44:10.520 Really, everyone thinks there's new evidence. No, there's not.

00:44:14.060 All the appeal coin does is make sure it was procedures were followed correctly and there was no nothing that was done to interfere with due process.

00:44:24.360 TMZ is reporting that you've received messages like they say that these are screen grabs that from from messages sent to you.

00:44:31.100 You're just mad because Austin's no longer living, should have stabbed Hunter, too.

00:44:38.100 Didn't you beat Megan? I blame you. And he effed around and found out. 0.91

00:44:44.060 about austin is that are these well that's just the tip of the that's just the tip of the iceberg

00:44:50.620 yeah that's that's it's unbelievable the amount i get and uh you know this is so crazy yes it is

00:44:58.960 it doesn't it doesn't make it's not rational behavior from a normal human being are you

00:45:06.380 worried about hunter's safety in the wake of these death threats and so on he looks obviously just

00:45:11.460 like his brother there the hate toward him has been overwhelming there's a petition now with

00:45:17.260 change.org to have him arrested for assault are you concerned about him well every parent if

00:45:24.340 you're a parent are you concerned about your children every day yes of course yeah uh i've

00:45:30.460 been concerned since he was born uh but now doubly so yes because if something was to happen oh man

00:45:37.560 that picture that's the greatest those months i mean these memories you know the people that say

00:45:44.180 oh i was an absentee father oh i beat their mother i've never laid a hand on a woman in my life

00:45:49.400 you can ask megan uh i may i may have not been the best person in the world but i guarantee one

00:45:55.800 thing i never once laid a hand on her i don't believe in that i taught my boys that you do

00:46:01.520 not ever touch women i don't care if they hit you first you do not strike a woman that's just

00:46:06.620 something i was taught from when i was raised and uh i passed it on to my boys

00:46:12.480 these are some of the pictures of your twins growing up together and this video played

00:46:19.240 i understand as you gave your victim impact statement in court um how is how how is hunter

00:46:26.420 doing this must have been incredibly hard for him in particular um to be honest hunter is amazing

00:46:33.000 i uh i spoke to him a couple of nights ago when he came over and we stepped out front by ourselves

00:46:40.680 and i wanted to tell him something i said son um when you when you walked up on that witness stand

00:46:46.940 you were a boy when you stepped down from that witness stand you were a man i said i have been

00:46:55.100 hard on you and i have drilled so much into you i know you're sick of me telling you but i always

00:47:00.800 told them about communication is the key. If you can't communicate, you're going to have problems

00:47:07.000 with every part of your life, with your job, with your family, with your relationships. If you cannot

00:47:13.320 effectively articulate your words and string them together in a sentence to convey your emotions

00:47:18.380 or your thoughts in an effective manner so other people can understand you, you're going to be

00:47:23.580 limited and when he got up on that stand because i was more emotional when i did my impact statement

00:47:31.100 than him he was calm under control held his emotions in check was respectful was direct

00:47:42.320 communicated in a very soft but firm and strong way to get his point across

00:47:51.460 and to ask that man young man with respect he said please look me in the eye

00:47:58.860 at least carmelo gave him at least five ten seconds of looking in the eye and then straight

00:48:05.460 back down he wouldn't do that for me but hunter walked down off that witness stand as a man and

00:48:15.700 And I told him last night, or not before that, I hugged him.

00:48:18.380 I said, from now on, son, I don't look at you as a boy.

00:48:22.800 I look at you as a man.

00:48:23.660 I'm going to treat you as such.

00:48:26.600 Wow.

00:48:29.080 Were they identical, Jeff?

00:48:31.120 Were they identical twins?

00:48:32.080 Yes, they were.

00:48:33.600 Austin was born a couple of minutes before.

00:48:36.400 And so, but yes, they were very identical.

00:48:38.880 I actually used to have to take a black Sharpie and color in Hunter's toenail black.

00:48:45.700 So we could tell them apart when they were on the floor or we wouldn't get confused.

00:48:49.620 And the joke was, you know, you're you're from the Black Toe tribe because we do we we do have Native American heritage in us.

00:48:58.800 We do have our Indian cards. So we kind of joke about that. And they asked me, what tribe are we?

00:49:04.000 And I was like, well, you're from the Black Toe tribe. And so that was a running joke for years.

00:49:09.320 You're from the Clear Toe, you over there, Clear Toe.

00:49:12.040 So I asked you if you'd learned anything about Carmelo Anthony in the past year.

00:49:18.440 We know precious little about Austin.

00:49:20.140 I'd love to hear about what kind of kid Austin was.

00:49:25.400 The day he was killed at 10 o'clock in the morning.

00:49:32.680 Our church held a vigil, impromptu vigil at 7 p.m. that night.

00:49:37.200 Our church holds 1,500 people.

00:49:39.800 it was completely full and overflowed of two or three hundred people more in the lobby

00:49:46.080 we had me family friends who spoke about austin and how he touched everyone

00:49:56.740 when i spoke about austin uh i told the story that i've told many times i've told when i had

00:50:05.800 cancer is people don't remember how much money you had people don't remember what kind of car

00:50:11.780 you drove or how big your bank account was but people always remember how you made them feel

00:50:16.680 and they put their footprints on your heart they leave a lasting impression in some positive way

00:50:27.480 and that's what's called a legacy that's what you leave behind because when you live and when

00:50:33.140 you're born you're you have nothing when you die you go out with nothing there's no u-haul behind

00:50:37.300 a hirsch but what you leave behind is the people that you impacted in their life and austin was

00:50:45.680 special he had the ability to be a leader to show compassion to to to encourage his teammates to

00:50:53.940 to lift up and and and discover i mean i tried to make him go to church so many times before

00:51:00.860 but um they found it through god through their friends god works through them so i was fortunate

00:51:08.260 that he found god uh i was very very lucky to have him as a son and uh i could go on for days

00:51:17.040 to and tell you stories about austin and hunter and me jeff i hope we can consider continue the

00:51:23.380 discussion sometime i i'm wishing you and your family nothing but wellness and healing god bless

00:51:28.180 you. Thanks for coming on. Thank you. Thank you again. For 250 years, Americans have believed

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00:53:20.140 We are turning now to Kelly's Court.

00:53:21.840 Joining me now, Mark Garagos.

00:53:23.060 He's the co-host of In the Well on our MK True Crime channel, which is a podcast called MK True Crime, and we have different shows on that podcast.

00:53:33.500 So go ahead and subscribe now to the podcast, wherever you get your podcasts for free.

00:53:39.480 And you can just go to mktruecrime.com as well, which will direct you to all the right places.

00:53:44.140 Arthur Idalla is also here.

00:53:45.540 He's our pal, longtime pal, and he's the host of the Arthur Idalla Power Hour, former prosecutor, former, well, now, current defense attorney, civil lawyer.

00:53:54.780 Does it all. Does it all. Guys, thank you for being here. Great to see you both.

00:53:59.000 Oh, my God. Poor Jeff Metcalf. That was tough.

00:54:02.960 This poor guy, in addition to losing his son, has had to deal with nonstop harassment. 0.89

00:54:09.040 They're they're treating him like his boy is the one who committed the murder of of a black boy. 0.72

00:54:16.300 That's how this is being treated, like like he's some racist kid who committed a murder for no reason. 0.69

00:54:22.700 It's exactly the opposite. He did nothing wrong.

00:54:24.960 He was trying to ask this kid to leave and he paid for that with his life.

00:54:30.060 Arthur, what do you make of what's happening to this poor family?

00:54:33.560 Well, I listened to the interview, and I don't know who the rebel rouser is that you were referring to, their spokesperson down there in Texas.

00:54:45.320 Dominique Alexander is his name.

00:54:47.820 So, Megan, it has literally become, people should know this, it's become an industry.

00:54:53.600 It's become like a way to make a living, is to be a spokesperson for these cases.

00:54:59.240 You can imagine how many there are in New York.

00:55:01.800 um i'm representing a police officer who's hispanic who killed someone who's hispanic 0.92

00:55:07.640 all the witnesses and all the cops are hispanic and they're making this a racial thing

00:55:12.720 where there's everyone is the same exact race and i mean they're screaming and they're yelling and 1.00

00:55:18.560 i mean they ripped me apart for defending the the sergeant and it's what they do they just 0.96

00:55:25.220 create problems they're unethical they're absolutely now there are there are no ethics

00:55:30.160 right they're not lawyers they're not judges so they play by the and and they are they're taking

00:55:34.600 money it in my opinion stealing people's money i don't think they are providing any service

00:55:41.220 any benefit i think it typically they wind up making things much worse and but it's but because

00:55:48.160 of all the social media and the clicks and all i mean you you just rattled off like eight podcasts

00:55:52.360 that i never heard of where all these different interviews are taking place so hey why not let

00:55:57.520 me and i love the question you asked rhetorically where is all that go fund me money and you know

00:56:04.360 i did see he filed a indigent client meaning he has no money to do his appeal six hundred thousand

00:56:12.160 dollars is a significant amount of money for anybody even though the mark darragos is a blow

00:56:17.180 through in a year i mean that's you know that's a it's a lot of money right there um so you know

00:56:23.440 it's it's tragic it's tragic uh and and the the twin brother and you highlighted that as well

00:56:30.040 megan you know my best friend who i lost on on 9-11 as tragic as it said as his parents were

00:56:36.700 his siblings were they still haven't recovered 25 years later and i'm not exaggerating and i and to

00:56:43.920 be a twin i mean that has to take everything to a whole nother level so you know and talk about

00:56:49.860 the legality of it i've never tried a self-defense case where the defendant didn't testify and talked

00:56:55.480 about why he had to act the way he did in self-defense there's a reason they didn't put

00:57:02.040 him on the stand i think we all know they must have concluded he would have made a terrible witness

00:57:07.200 i mean in a self-defense claim mark to not put him up there and he's the only one he's the only

00:57:12.920 one who could say what was in his heart when austin metcalf came over to him why he said to

00:57:18.420 Austin Metcalf, you know, push, try to touch me and you'll find out. Touch me and you'll see.

00:57:24.920 Why did you say that? Why were you inviting him to touch you? What was in your head as the you'll

00:57:31.580 see part of that exchange? Why did you bring the knife? All those things, if he had good

00:57:36.240 explanations for them, I think we would have heard them. Yeah, except it's not the law. And

00:57:41.200 it's an interesting, one of the things that a judge instructs the jury in every single criminal

00:57:47.600 case in America. Yeah, but isn't it different when it's self-defense as the defense? I know

00:57:53.040 he has no obligation to testify and you can't hold it against him that he didn't, but he's raising

00:57:56.860 his whole defenses. It was self-defense. I was afraid. I was threatened. Right. And if you

00:58:02.980 really believed as the lawyer, still the one tactical decision that you don't get to make

00:58:10.640 as a lawyer is whether to call your client or not. I've actually gone into chambers in murder cases

00:58:16.880 and said it's over my dead body that the client is taking, pun intended, taking the stand.

00:58:24.240 In a self-defense case, I've had more than a few cases where I had a result that was a

00:58:34.520 voluntary manslaughter without the client taking the stand. People I think in this case didn't

00:58:40.520 understand. I'm going to give the benefit of the doubt to the defense lawyer. This did not strike

00:58:46.620 me ever as a self-defense case. Yes, you invoke self-defense, but it was always going to be based

00:58:54.660 on what was reported. And unfortunately, we didn't have cameras in the courtroom. But based on what

00:58:59.640 was reported, this was always an excessive force against whatever the push, the shove, whatever the

00:59:06.560 initiation was. If it's excessive force, then you're aiming for a reduction that you're negating

00:59:14.400 malice you're trying to get a manslaughter you could argue both you could argue both in your

00:59:18.820 summation you could say you know look our position is that he acted in self-defense he had fear and

00:59:25.040 these are the reasons why now you can't get into the reasons why if he doesn't testify he if you

00:59:30.340 don't know what's in his head if he doesn't testify hypothetically if he says well yeah i saw the

00:59:36.580 deceased beat up two other kids just a week ago and he broke the guy's nose and he was bleeding

00:59:40.660 all over the place that's why i acted the way he did i did well now you can have a really sound

00:59:46.620 argument but you can tell the jury and if you discount our theory of self-defense this is also

00:59:53.620 a case where the judge is giving you a lesser included so therefore you can say you can determine

00:59:59.560 whether he just he used excessive force under these situations and try to get what's called

01:00:04.600 a compromise verdict and to arthur's point they rejected all of that they had manslaughter offered

01:00:10.340 a silver platter and the jury said no and then when offered the the sudden passion um mitigating

01:00:16.620 factor on the sentencing phase they rejected rejected it again because that would have had

01:00:22.240 a maximum of 20 years and they gave him 35 the jury didn't buy it they didn't buy it it's like

01:00:26.700 i i know like the maybe the family the lawyer bargained that people would hear that he was

01:00:33.840 asked to leave the tent and would infer that this was a racial thing and get mad at austin metcalf

01:00:40.320 for trying to kick the black kid out in the rain, 0.95

01:00:43.660 then laying hands on the black kid 1.00

01:00:45.920 as this hulking white boy. 0.98

01:00:48.280 They didn't buy it. 1.00

01:00:49.500 They knew it was bullshit. 1.00

01:00:50.940 They knew you don't stab somebody in the heart 1.00

01:00:53.060 for telling you to leave a tent

01:00:54.640 and literally just placing a hand on you.

01:00:56.420 Go ahead, Mark.

01:00:57.300 The problem was, from their standpoint,

01:01:01.400 as all cases, in my experience,

01:01:04.940 it's over in jury selection.

01:01:07.040 When you don't have in jury selection, 0.84

01:01:09.220 African-Americans on that jury, it's preordained what your verdict's going to be. 1.00

01:01:15.320 Okay, tell me why. 0.98

01:01:16.500 I'll tell you why.

01:01:17.000 I remember during the George Zimmerman trial, in fact, Mark O'Mara still teases me.

01:01:21.580 Mark O'Mara was the lawyer for George Zimmerman.

01:01:24.540 As soon as they got that jury, and it was an all-white jury, I went public and said,

01:01:31.640 the only way Zimmerman loses or O'Mara loses this case is if he falls and trips and hits his head.

01:01:37.840 Because you are never, as a defense lawyer, going to change who the person is.

01:01:44.980 Just take a look at our political scene today.

01:01:47.700 Take a look at kind of the left versus right, Republican versus Democrat.

01:01:52.140 You don't change, you're not changing anybody's hearts and minds as a lawyer.

01:01:57.000 What you're doing is you're picking a jury that will look at what your defense is and

01:02:03.320 either buy it or not buy it.

01:02:05.100 Either the story resonates or the story doesn't resonate.

01:02:08.920 You can't change in a week, in a month, even in a one-year trial, the way somebody views

01:02:16.480 life.

01:02:17.460 And so once you had that jury, for whatever reasons, and that jury was selected, you

01:02:23.860 have to course correct to give them whatever arguments.

01:02:27.920 And hopefully, the lawyer, when he was doing that, understood.

01:02:32.460 And by the way, the judge did give him a manslaughter.

01:02:35.720 That wasn't necessarily required when the client doesn't take the stand.

01:02:41.120 That was a victory for the defense.

01:02:43.840 But at the same time, I guarantee you, if he still had any neurons firing, the lawyer

01:02:49.780 had tried to question his client.

01:02:52.500 And I can tell you, having raised a teenage boy, having represented countless teenage

01:02:58.700 boys. They there's rarely the teenage boy that you're going to want to put on the stand who's

01:03:05.100 going to withstand a cross-examination. It just is it's virtually impossible. But you can find

01:03:13.740 let me just say this, though. You can absolutely find black jurors who would have convicted 0.53

01:03:19.160 Carmelo Anthony in a heartbeat and white jurors who would have acquitted him had the evidence

01:03:25.860 been there. And I've been wanting to play this. I saw this on X last night. And I was like, you

01:03:29.760 know, because I feel like so many people are generalizing about black people because we're

01:03:33.980 seeing a lot of black people outside of this courthouse saying vile things to the Metcalf

01:03:37.480 family and making this a race thing and saying we got to protect ours. They don't speak for all 0.89

01:03:42.880 black people. That's this bullshit. Most black people are normal, just like white people. You 1.00

01:03:48.580 know, they're good. They're bad. They're in between. They're all the things they don't have

01:03:51.880 like saddled with racial grievance all the time and they can't be fair jurors and they can't see

01:03:57.000 justice when it's administered or it's not. And that brings me to this father whose name I don't

01:04:01.340 know. I just it's a viral video on X. He's sitting there with his I think they're all boys. He says

01:04:08.980 they're boys, but it's five black children on his lap behind him. A couple are babies. So you can

01:04:13.580 never tell gender so much with the babies. I accept him that these are the five black children.

01:04:16.680 and listen to this guy, Sot19. What do you want us to do? What do you want us to do at this point? 0.56

01:04:24.460 What? I'm lost for words. I don't know what to do. I got five boys. I don't know what,

01:04:30.280 I ain't got nothing to tell them no more. You can't walk away no more. What do you want us to do?

01:04:37.400 I also have five boys. She doesn't know what to do after the Carmelo is now.

01:04:44.080 I don't like what you tell your sons, guys.

01:04:48.740 I'm going to go ahead and try something.

01:04:52.980 Today, boys, when you go out into school,

01:04:55.400 don't stab any other kids.

01:04:58.960 Do you think you guys can do that?

01:05:02.020 Do you feel good about that, Lee?

01:05:04.360 Do you feel good about that, Ace?

01:05:06.500 Yeah.

01:05:07.220 Oh, you're the answer.

01:05:08.240 This is Ace.

01:05:09.180 So, is that a good commitment from everybody?

01:05:11.460 We're not going to stab any kids today? 1.00

01:05:14.080 hey try that lady that might work i love that it's basic personal accountability 1.00

01:05:24.160 i did not think not think that was the type of flip you're gonna play

01:05:30.000 neither did i i was i i did not i just address what mark was talking about a jury selection

01:05:36.280 amazing like think of the black people you know that's what they're like the black people i know 0.99

01:05:41.240 like he stabbed him in the heart. They're not saying like he deserved it because he placed 0.98

01:05:46.320 hands on him and said, leave our tent at a sporting event in which they were rivals like

01:05:50.820 that. The people outside of that courthouse are nutcases. The people in the media backing up like 0.98

01:05:57.540 Jasmine Crockett are nutcase activist types. Regular black people are not having this reaction. 0.96

01:06:05.360 Maybe I'm wrong. Some are, but I just think the average person, black, white, Hispanic,

01:06:09.680 what have you, understands perfectly well what happened down there.

01:06:12.780 The kid snapped.

01:06:14.380 I don't know why.

01:06:15.320 I don't know what was in the background.

01:06:16.540 He snapped and it was murder.

01:06:19.080 Like he obviously understood plunging a knife into another man's heart so deep and so hard

01:06:25.320 that the heart had a two and a half inch wound and that he nicked the bone behind it.

01:06:34.060 That kid was there to kill Austin Metcalfe in that moment.

01:06:37.980 Go ahead, Arthur.

01:06:38.480 a couple things although i just want to address what what mark said about a jury and jury selection

01:06:44.400 um it's it's that but i agree with what you also said megan is that there are plenty of black

01:06:49.560 jurors who can pick black people and white jurors who can pick white people but but mark is correct

01:06:54.740 i mean what i say when i lecture at law schools megan you're gonna get a kick out of this is you

01:07:00.720 know a trial it's like making gravy it's like making sunday sauce right that is sunday sauce

01:07:06.860 but if you start with bad tomatoes it doesn't matter how much meatballs and sausage and everything

01:07:13.000 you you're never gonna you know you're never gonna have a good sauce so if you start with

01:07:18.440 a bad jury it doesn't matter how talented you think you are if they're just so predetermined

01:07:23.860 to be against you now my limited understanding is that's one of the big issues that is going

01:07:29.740 to be raised at the trial here there were minorities on this jury that just weren't

01:07:34.660 black people. There were minorities. There were Hispanics and there were Asians.

01:07:38.060 There were three. Apparently, there were three African-American women who were struck from the 0.99

01:07:42.980 jury by the prosecution and one after the other after the other. And the argument at the appeal

01:07:50.280 is going to be that they were struck by the prosecutor because they were black. Now, the law

01:07:57.560 is. Which is illegal. You can strike jurors for any reason. You can strike them because you don't

01:08:02.500 like their hair color you cannot strike them because you don't like their skin color they're

01:08:06.260 like the the things there are a few things that you cannot strike a juror a juror a prospective

01:08:12.560 juror based on race is one of them but they have a defense to that they said they were all teachers

01:08:17.020 and that's why they didn't have to give a race neutral reason as to why you dismiss those two

01:08:21.900 or three people a question and the judge believed yeah well i was gonna say arthur have you ever

01:08:26.800 met a prosecutor who couldn't give you a pretext as to why they correct use somebody what kind of

01:08:32.200 nonsense is and why does a prosecutor who's got the burden of proof why do they need a peremptory

01:08:38.120 challenge i think you know they have the burden of proof why should they be able to exercise

01:08:43.700 peremptories at least in federal courts somebody understands that it's an uneven playing field and

01:08:49.520 the defense gets more peremptories than the prosecution i've i've always thought i'd the

01:08:54.180 prosecutors shouldn't even have a peremptory that they're so confident oh boy there it goes for

01:08:59.400 president um so but megan what what people bleeding heart criminal defense you're gonna

01:09:05.280 take away somebody's liberty why not prove your case if you think the case is so great why can't

01:09:10.500 both sides have a few in their back pocket who they they get to bounce for no cause whatsoever

01:09:15.860 it's a teacher it just happens to be a black teacher i i don't like the case happened on a

01:09:24.160 school ground what you know exactly what the prosecution was thinking these three are going

01:09:28.160 to get on there and they're going to be like i'm the authority because i'm the teacher let me tell

01:09:31.920 you how these things work a lot of lawyers criminal defense and prosecution say i don't want some

01:09:36.800 expert going on there i'm the expert i'll tell them what to think yes let me guess if they had

01:09:41.800 a cop on that jury the prosecutor would have bounced the cop because he didn't want the

01:09:46.160 authority come on megan let's not be let's not be naive they were bouncing the people for a

01:09:51.640 specific reason we can make the argument any other way you want oh you're alleging racism

01:09:57.700 and in a violation of the law with zero foundation alleging see this is where i think people get

01:10:04.420 mistaken they say it's racism no it is bouncing and when i say bouncing i mean using a peremptory

01:10:12.000 on somebody because you think as the prosecutor that person is going to have an affinity for

01:10:19.940 the the defendant that does not necessarily when people say well that's but it's illegal if they

01:10:27.040 do it for race you're accusing them of violating their ethics it's illegal but how do you prove

01:10:32.000 it's illegal as long as the prosecutor is clever enough to give you a pretextual reason 0.91

01:10:37.900 but it's got to hold you tell me because the defense tried this even that loser defense lawyer 0.97

01:10:44.760 who was terrible did try this he stood up and he was like she's he they just struck the three black 0.95

01:10:50.320 jurors and the prosecutor said that's because they're educators and i don't want three teachers

01:10:54.220 on the jury and he said you you let a white woman go on the jury but it sounds like she wasn't a

01:11:01.220 teacher i don't like that if if the white woman who he who he let go on the jury is a teacher and

01:11:08.260 has the same resume as the three black people now we're talking but the judge wasn't persuaded by

01:11:12.600 the facts as they stood well you you are you are correct megan and and you know you i don't know

01:11:17.280 the reason why they didn't want her on the jury the teachers was for the authority part

01:11:22.680 as much as the sympathy part they're going to be teachers they're with young people all the time

01:11:28.020 they're going to know the consequences of their verdict if he gets found guilty he's going to

01:11:31.960 spend the majority of his life in prison so that's why um as a prosecutor i would not want

01:11:37.560 a teacher who are with children i mean their life is children and it's protecting children

01:11:42.340 and enriching children and so their dna is to help children and this kid is basically a child

01:11:48.800 so that's why i would say judge you know and i would make that exact argument i just made on

01:11:54.140 the record to the judge here's why they're going to be overly sympathetic to the jury they're going

01:11:59.300 to have to the to the defendant they're going to have a prejudice against the prosecution and for

01:12:05.640 the defendant because they're going to look at the prosecution not as someone who's trying to

01:12:09.660 do justice but is trying to say hey one kid is dead and now we're going to kill another kid

01:12:14.160 So that's the but the more you give the judge to say this is a very race neutral reason, the stronger it is.

01:12:21.920 That's why I don't think this is a strong appellate issue for the defense.

01:12:27.360 OK, but here's here's what's crazy now.

01:12:29.580 Now you've got there was at least one juror who was bounced because he said during voir dire, quote, I don't know if I feel right putting a brother in jail by I mean, I appreciate the guy's honesty.

01:12:43.540 But here's what's happening now. Here's here's now what we're getting in reaction to this verdict by the activist class class.

01:12:51.500 This is from the gin and juice podcast. Take a listen to thought 17.

01:12:57.160 If they say, can you be fair? Don't say no, I'm not. I'm not going to put a black man in.

01:13:04.380 Don't say that. You have to go and be like, no, I will hear the evidence. 1.00

01:13:09.320 I can be fair when damn near half of the black people who could have been on the jury 1.00

01:13:13.300 counseled themselves out you know don't do that when you go up there say no I have never heard 0.96

01:13:21.380 about this case I can be fair say that okay and then mean it believe it a little bit don't tell

01:13:27.780 them you can't be impartial I believe in the rule of law so don't go in there and act like all of a

01:13:36.140 sudden you have to be the most honest person you've ever been yeah that's interesting don't

01:13:41.220 by the way if you don't think that applies for pro-prosecution jurors i can give you i have caught

01:13:49.520 so many stealth jurors who lied to get onto a jury to fry the client it applies to both sides

01:13:58.780 so how do you get past that let me just tell you you know where it happened really extensively

01:14:03.760 the first harvey weinstein trial i did they would come in we interviewed them one-on-one

01:14:08.880 and they oh i could be so fair i can do whatever swearing on their children that they would give

01:14:15.100 them a fair trial and then when they were struck for whatever reason we followed up on their

01:14:19.460 facebook and their instagram and they were like i was almost on the jury to convict that burt ball

01:14:25.140 i couldn't wait to send it to jail by the way they were lying to us so blatantly during

01:14:31.420 scott peterson's trial we did what's called in california back in the day hovey vordire you

01:14:37.060 bring people in individually that's what we did in weinstein that's what we yeah and i actually

01:14:42.680 had a woman who i liked she said oh i changed my mind when i when i first heard i was coming in

01:14:48.180 this case but my dad told me what if it was your brother and i thought wow this is great i get back

01:14:53.720 to the hotel where i'm staying somebody sent me a chat room it's 20 years ago and she says i really

01:15:00.320 hoodwinked that defense lawyer

01:15:02.700 I'm going to get it on the jury

01:15:04.980 and I'm going to fry his client

01:15:06.680 I did it to us Megan you know the 1.00

01:15:08.700 supermodel I guess

01:15:10.800 Gigi her dad know who that is because I 1.00

01:15:12.920 didn't yeah she did it 0.92

01:15:14.480 so when she walks in 0.98

01:15:16.020 Gigi I don't know

01:15:18.660 isn't that a Broadway show Gigi 0.98

01:15:20.820 I don't know who it is so she comes in one

01:15:22.820 on one she must have caught your eye a little

01:15:24.820 I'm not buying that

01:15:26.420 absolutely not

01:15:28.180 she was like she looks like a 12 year old boy it's not my thing but she she swore to us

01:15:34.620 absolutely i can be fair and we're like well you're in that industry isn't it aren't you

01:15:38.560 going to be by no no no he deserves a fair trial i forget which side struck her and oh you should

01:15:44.700 have seen what she wrote on facebook i was so close to sending that fat sob to jail for life 1.00

01:15:50.060 i mean they just blatantly on their children on a stack of bibles lie to your face she she she's a 1.00

01:15:56.080 5'11 supermodel, but okay, I accept that she didn't catch your eye at all, a 12-year-old boy.

01:16:01.620 I was going to say, I don't know what junior high article went to.

01:16:05.640 Marianne's gorgeous.

01:16:06.760 Jeez. 1.00

01:16:08.140 Reagan knows my wife. 0.97

01:16:09.620 All right.

01:16:10.660 Well, let me keep going because there's a lot more to get to.

01:16:13.800 So does anyone think this appeal has any sort of a chance? 0.57

01:16:17.320 They may raise the juror challenge, you know, that they're going to argue that these jurors were clearly stricken because they were black and that was illegal.

01:16:25.440 I mean, that that is the kind of thing if an appellate court decided to revisit it, that could get you a new trial.

01:16:31.700 But there's no evidence of it. I mean, like they'd have to have something very strong, would they not?

01:16:36.100 Have you guys ever seen a new trial granted on those grounds? And was it stronger grounds than this?

01:16:39.980 I have. But you would have to have some time. To your point, you're absolutely correct.

01:16:44.660 It's a heavy lift. You would need some kind of a declaration.

01:16:49.420 you would need some kind of really compelling evidence that somebody was either, you know,

01:16:58.020 one of the things that I've found, Arthur may have seen this, you have a jury strike list by

01:17:03.140 the prosecution. If there was an initial, a B or something for black or some kind of rating,

01:17:10.620 I've seen that. I've actually seen that happen where that was discovered years later and it

01:17:16.380 ended up being the basis for a habeas

01:17:18.180 to get somebody free.

01:17:20.860 Could they be that lucky?

01:17:22.240 That would be an amazing...

01:17:23.240 Let me just talk about the appellate issue.

01:17:25.980 You seemed... I did not

01:17:28.380 pay enough attention to

01:17:30.220 have an opinion on the defense attorney's

01:17:32.180 performance, but you...

01:17:34.440 He was dreadful.

01:17:35.900 So then one of the issues, one of the things

01:17:38.200 you could bring up is ineffective assistance of

01:17:40.260 counts. That was a very high bar.

01:17:42.200 Can we talk about what the dreadfulness was?

01:17:44.240 And let me run it by you guys as the seasoned experts who do this for a living now still.

01:17:49.480 This guy, for example, he got up there and he said to the one witness, you and I have barely talked, right?

01:17:58.200 Like I talked to you for two minutes or something.

01:17:59.880 And the guy was like, yeah, you know, what say again, Steve?

01:18:04.660 Yeah, it was his own witness.

01:18:06.060 It was his witness.

01:18:06.680 And he's like, we don't know each other.

01:18:07.980 We basically haven't spoken at all.

01:18:09.680 And the guy was like, right.

01:18:11.080 And then that guy gave his testimony that was supposed to be helpful to Carmelo Anthony.

01:18:15.620 It wasn't.

01:18:16.780 It wound up not being that helpful.

01:18:18.880 On cross-examination, he was exposed as having completely collapsed.

01:18:22.000 And then he adopted the prosecution's theory of the case.

01:18:24.760 And the prosecutor got up there and he's like, you and I have talked many times, right?

01:18:28.140 Like, we know each other.

01:18:28.780 I have talked to you.

01:18:29.600 And he's like, yeah, yeah, I know.

01:18:31.040 I know who you are.

01:18:31.640 I know.

01:18:32.060 So, like, on the one side, you have a diligent prosecutor who's been, you know, all along

01:18:36.660 speaking to witnesses, figuring out what they're going to say, figuring out his cross-examination.

01:18:40.540 And you have a defense lawyer who called the witness, who doesn't know anything about what he's going to say.

01:18:45.100 And the thing implodes.

01:18:46.860 Now, I feel like that's just one example.

01:18:49.200 I thought he was ineffective from start to finish.

01:18:51.740 I just thought it was he should have done what you said, Arthur.

01:18:54.000 He should have said, here's our main defense.

01:18:57.220 But here's our alternative argument.

01:18:59.600 If you if you don't accept that and here's all the proof that, you know, heat of passion or whatever.

01:19:03.800 He didn't he wasn't effective on any of this. 0.88

01:19:06.160 But you have to prove not only was it ineffective assistance, you have to prove that if you had a Garagos or Idala in there, the result would have been different, right? 0.95

01:19:18.820 That it was, it actually did affect the outcome, that you would have had a serious likelihood of an acquittal if you had effective assistance.

01:19:28.220 And this case was open and shut.

01:19:30.420 The facts really weren't even in dispute.

01:19:33.140 So doesn't that kill that appeal?

01:19:35.780 If the kid, if the kid signed a declaration, like, like Mark was saying that he says, I really wanted to testify. And my defense, my lawyer stopped me from testifying. I wanted to tell my side of the story. But my lawyer who's twice my age and where my family paid him and he spoke to Noah's thing. He told me, no, no, no, you can't testify. And I needed to tell my story. And judges really believe that. And it is a self-defense case. So it is, you know, it is, it is very relevant. It's not like a high in the sky.

01:20:05.780 But it's look, I can just tell you in New York, Megan, to get an ineffective assistance of counsel is very difficult.

01:20:11.820 The case to do with a lawyer literally sleeping at the table where it's on the record.

01:20:19.140 The judge is like, Mr. Jones, Mr. Jones, are you sleeping right now?

01:20:23.180 Mark was tired. He was tired. Stop it.

01:20:26.420 Arthur, that was a Texas case. The sleeping lawyer was out of Texas.

01:20:31.080 I did not know that. And that's where this case is.

01:20:34.520 Well, do you disagree, Mark, that it's next to impossible on ineffective assistance?

01:20:39.780 Ineffective assistance is a very high bar because it isn't whether or not if you had

01:20:45.540 Johnny Cochran or you had the second coming of Clarence Darrow, it's basically, are you,

01:20:51.100 you know, I always joke about probable cause has been reduced to are you breathing?

01:20:55.100 The, is my client breathing?

01:20:57.080 But for ineffective assistance, it's not a high bar to be thought of as competent.

01:21:03.620 And basically, judges say, could this have been a tactical decision?

01:21:11.040 Could this lawyer, is there a way to spin whatever decision the client is complaining about that the lawyer had a reason to do it tactically?

01:21:20.540 If they did, the judges are dismissive of it.

01:21:23.260 the reason why i brought up him testifying and mark uh said it earlier and when it comes to a

01:21:28.880 trial that the main decisions that only the defendant can make is to take a plea or not to

01:21:34.560 take a plea and to testify or not to testify and so that the testify or not testifying that's that's

01:21:40.640 a that's a third rail if the judges believed that this kid really wanted to testify and the judge

01:21:46.520 and his lawyer prevented him from testifying that's something that i'm going to all i'll say

01:21:51.520 if they're going to take it into consideration strongly. Well, Arthur's point, I make a habit

01:21:57.560 of having the judge do an inquiry just so that you don't go down this road when the prosecutor

01:22:03.820 rests and have the judge do it on the record. And in the instance, as I mentioned before,

01:22:09.740 to Arthur's point, I actually will take the client into chambers, have it transcribed if

01:22:16.440 they're taking the stand over my objection. I've only done it a couple of times, but I think of

01:22:22.380 the one where a client did it after I thought I had tried the best defense case within the

01:22:28.080 prosecutions you could ever do. And he did it over my vehement objection. And, you know,

01:22:35.900 day one, he did well. Day two, he disintegrated. So that's how it goes. That's why you don't want

01:22:42.380 that. All right, stand by, because there is breaking news right now in the Blake Lively,

01:22:46.760 Justin Baldoni case. We have a ruling from the judge on her demand that he pay her legal fees

01:22:53.760 plus punitive damages times three. She wants them trebled or tripled. We've got a ruling. That's 0.94

01:22:59.980 next. Let me tell you something. When you sign your insurance policy for some brokers, that's

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01:26:00.740 Hey everyone, it's me, Megan Kelly.

01:26:02.820 I've got some exciting news.

01:26:05.020 I now have my very own channel on Sirius XM.

01:26:08.200 It's called the Megan Kelly channel

01:26:09.440 and it is where you will hear the truth

01:26:11.160 unfiltered with no agenda and no apologies.

01:26:14.340 Along with the Megan Kelly show,

01:26:15.520 you're going to hear from people like Mark Halperin,

01:26:17.700 Link Lauren, Maureen Callahan,

01:26:19.600 Emily Drushinsky, Jesse Kelly,

01:26:21.200 Real Clear Politics and many more.

01:26:23.300 It's bold, no BS news.

01:26:25.820 Only on the Megan Kelly channel.

01:26:27.420 Sirius XM 111 and on the Sirius XM app.

01:26:34.700 Mark Garagos and Arthur Idalla are back with me now.

01:26:37.460 And guys, big news out of the Baldoni versus Lively dispute.

01:26:42.620 The judge in the case, Louis J. Lyman,

01:26:46.120 has agreed that Justin Baldoni must pay Blake Lively's attorney's fees

01:26:52.680 expended in defending his defamation claim against her. He had rejected her request for

01:27:01.940 additional punitive or triple damages, which is a very good thing for Justin.

01:27:07.200 The attorney's fee is less good. This is her submission under a policy under California law

01:27:17.080 referred to as Section 47.1, which was enacted to protect Me Too victims, sexual harassment or

01:27:25.200 sexual abuse victims who file claims and then get countersued for defamation by defendants who

01:27:33.540 wish to harass them, who wish to silence them. It was a way of empowering them against more

01:27:40.040 empowered, more richer, more famous, more connected defendants that they may be suing

01:27:46.480 for sexual harassment, who try to bully them into silence with a counterclaim for defamation.

01:27:51.060 I know that because we interviewed the woman behind the law, the woman whose idea it was,

01:27:56.060 and the woman who was the architect of the law. Her name is Victoria Burke. And she was

01:28:00.920 very against this law being used by Blake Lively. She came on and said, this is the last thing I

01:28:08.320 had in mind. She's more powerful than he is. She's better connected. She's richer. And she admitted, 0.99

01:28:15.100 she revealed to us exclusively that Blake Lively's lawyers had come to Victoria Burke to say,

01:28:22.960 we really want Blake to be the face of this law and to take it national. So it's not just

01:28:29.820 California and three other states, which it is now, but it's 50 states. And that Blake Lively

01:28:34.880 will be the champion for this law who brings it everywhere. And this woman, Victoria, who,

01:28:39.460 unlike Blake Lively, is an actual survivor of sexual assault, said, no, I don't want your help, 0.93

01:28:49.260 you weird lady. I'm doing a good job on my own and I have a strategy and I'd much rather stay

01:28:56.160 under the radar than have you go out there in your stupid Met Gala dress and try to make yourself 1.00

01:29:02.440 the face of my law. So this judge has kind of split the baby from the look of it saying, 1.00

01:29:09.460 All right. I under the term, the explicit terms of 47.1, I guess I have to give her her attorney's fees, but I'm not doing any of that other nonsense. And it is a loss for Team Baldoni, which made the argument that this law couldn't even be enforced and that it's probably unconstitutional.

01:29:28.920 They wanted him to, like, not give her anything, but they didn't quite get that.

01:29:33.600 But it's much better to just get her fees awarded to her, Mark, than to get her fees and punies and times three.

01:29:41.060 I look if I was prognosticating and I did prognosticate and truth be told, talk to Brian about it.

01:29:47.400 I didn't ever think they were going to get trouble or punitive damages.

01:29:51.180 I expected only because there is part of what was built into the settlement agreement was a no appeal.

01:30:01.380 So the judge basically could act with impunity and he didn't have to worry about the circuit reversing him.

01:30:08.180 The strict language of the statute would seem to suggest that you have to award fees.

01:30:15.500 But there's still yet another battle, even though the order says case closed.

01:30:20.060 they're going to submit their fees requests and costs. And then the judge is going to whittle

01:30:26.080 it down. And Brian's team is going to file something that says, no, this was not what

01:30:32.060 was intended. And they're going to go back and forth. The judge is going to make the call.

01:30:36.040 But it's not going to come out of Justin Baldoni's pocket. This is all going to,

01:30:39.820 it's going to be a fight between the insurance companies over who's going to pay this. So it's

01:30:44.760 really much ado about nothing and confirms what you said, Megan, that that settlement was a massive

01:30:52.620 loss for Blake Lively because she paid out of pocket to her attorneys for the entire case. 0.87

01:31:02.000 She's not going to get all of her attorney's fees back. She's only going to get a siloed, 0.97

01:31:08.140 specific, discrete amount that are cabined to and tethered to the defense of that counter suit,

01:31:18.820 not the entire case. So it's not like she's getting some windfall. She's getting a percentage,

01:31:24.420 some small percentage of what she spent on this case. She got no damages. And as you said,

01:31:31.180 the woman who actually authored the law is running as fast away from her as she possibly can. 1.00

01:31:36.460 here's my question for you Arthur so she she hired like 25 lawyers or something you know like 1.00

01:31:42.980 she ridiculously overspent because she and her husband Ryan are swimming in money unlike Justin 0.98

01:31:48.520 Baldoni so when the judge gets a submission of what fees were expended only in defending the

01:31:54.580 defamation claim she doesn't get to reimbursed get reimbursed she's the one who filed this case

01:31:58.880 she filed sexual harassment he countersued for defamation so she's not going to get everything

01:32:03.240 She's not going to get how much it took her lawyers to draft her complaint or to serve process on Justin.

01:32:08.780 It's from the time he filed that counterclaim, that's when it would start ticking and they're going to have to give an itemized.

01:32:14.240 This is how much was spent in defending that claim.

01:32:16.800 But even so, if they look at that and it's totally excessive because she hired all these. 1.00

01:32:24.160 She went balls to the wall. 0.99

01:32:25.720 She used Ryan Reynolds money to do it. 0.63

01:32:27.940 Is she entitled to all of that or does it have to be reasonable?

01:32:30.860 No, the judge will. And what Mark said is true. The judge will. And also what Mark said, it probably will be a lawyer from the insurance company that's going to have to lay this money out saying, hold on a second.

01:32:44.560 First of all, and I'll give some hypotheticals, they're billing out at $3,000 an hour. And we can tell you that the average lawyer in this California is billed out at $1,200 an hour.

01:32:55.980 So whatever that is, let's take let's lop that off. Now they have five lawyers working on one motion and let's lop that off. So they may put in a bill for two million dollars and they might wind up with getting six hundred thousand dollars in the long run.

01:33:10.380 And don't forget, you know, we talked about earlier jury selection and people's prejudices.

01:33:14.860 It's a federal judge who makes, I don't know, three hundred fifty thousand dollars a year looking at these bills to see that some lawyer is going to make three million dollars on this is a little bit like a slow down, cowboy.

01:33:26.600 I'm not giving you all of this money. OK, I got a job getting rich.

01:33:31.080 Yeah, exactly. Do you know him? I don't know him.

01:33:35.340 I knew his father, Judge Lyman, his father was a storied legend and kind of an Edward Bennett

01:33:48.100 Williams level of expertise. I don't get the impression just based on what I've either seen

01:33:56.340 or read about his temperament and his kind of rulings in this case, that he's going to write

01:34:04.940 anybody a large check or allow anybody to have a large check written in this and the truth is

01:34:11.800 though megan it's not probably going to hurt these lawyers because as you accurately stated

01:34:14.960 they've already got paid a ton of money on the initial suit so this is just the the other piece

01:34:21.320 of it but you know make in general not necessarily this law i have no objection to these kinds of

01:34:31.340 cases where attorney's fees can be awarded i think it should be done more often because it would

01:34:37.120 prevent frivolous lawsuits it would prevent people saying i just want to break their chops

01:34:42.020 i'll give you a hundred thousand dollars let me just break your chops and see what happens

01:34:45.880 and if they spent you spent a hundred on your lawyer but they spent three hundred on their

01:34:49.960 lawyer so now you're you're on the so your lawyer says look you're gonna give me a hundred i gotta

01:34:54.460 tell you things don't go our way you could lose money you gave me and the money you gave then

01:35:00.020 And he's given his lawyers and the judge can give you treble damage.

01:35:03.740 So there should be a little bit more of accountability or potential punishment if you come at them with something that is that really is frivolous.

01:35:12.660 And, you know, you're not going to win, but it's not to the level where you can't file it.

01:35:17.860 So I'm not necessarily against these kinds of laws.

01:35:20.860 I believe it is busting the chop, not breaking the chop.

01:35:25.200 If we if we drill down, isn't it?

01:35:27.800 You're busting my chops.

01:35:29.060 okay all right that's what they say in albany and brooklyn i think we say don't stop breaking

01:35:34.000 my shop i know my father's inside he's from the bronx that's not true in brooklyn they say bust

01:35:39.500 okay you're wrong there too when it comes to cursing megan kelly i'm not in your league

01:35:43.920 so i will defer and you bust chops i submit my case to the jury of the mk show please email in

01:35:51.420 the as our verdict uh who is right on this it's megan oh you can say stop all the responses you 0.98

01:35:57.680 can say stop busting my bullions my balls oh look how sweet you are you won't say my mother watches 0.85

01:36:05.700 this okay so i have to be i know she knows about me she's she already forgives me okay okay here's 0.98

01:36:13.160 my real question though um worth it mark you know like that's my my number one takeaway is

01:36:20.880 so worth it. Like the defamation case was Justin Baldoni saying, these are lies. This woman is a

01:36:31.780 psychopath. She's claiming I busted in on her when she was breastfeeding. And I have evidence to show 1.00

01:36:40.060 you. She invited me in there saying, don't worry. I don't mind if you come in while I'm breastfeeding,

01:36:45.260 You know, like time and time again, she made these allegations against me, which were so false.

01:36:51.200 They were false to the point where I felt I had no choice but to say to the world, she is falsely accusing me to the point of defamation.

01:36:58.880 And now let me tell you everything about the defamation I'm suffering.

01:37:03.400 This whole thing turned the narrative on its head. 0.96

01:37:07.260 You had him like labeled as a me too, disgusting, foul pervert by Blake Lively and her rich 0.99

01:37:14.340 husband. 0.97

01:37:15.060 And when Brian filed that counterclaim, everything changed.

01:37:19.440 So I don't really care what modicum of attorney's fees his attorneys or his insurance has to

01:37:26.100 pay worth it.

01:37:27.600 Well, you're not kidding.

01:37:28.700 And you were old enough, some of us to remember the Streisand effect that's been supplanted.

01:37:34.960 now. You can call it the lively effect. Never has somebody so lit themselves on fire and for

01:37:42.780 absolutely no reason. It was stunning to me that they did it in the first place and they doubled

01:37:49.000 down and they missed the perfect opportunity. When Judge Lyman gutted Baldoni's case as

01:37:55.400 counter-climb, at that point, declare victory and get out and make some kind of a statement.

01:38:02.500 But the idea of continuing and continuing and just continuing to just drive into the center median just made absolutely no sense to me.

01:38:13.160 Yes.

01:38:13.980 Yes.

01:38:14.300 She made herself into another Amber Heard, and she will not recover from that.

01:38:19.320 She's got a nice dress, Megan.

01:38:20.640 She's got a nice dress, Meg.

01:38:22.500 She's got that nice dress.

01:38:23.700 You should borrow it.

01:38:24.960 The Sherbert?

01:38:25.580 You and Doug would look great walking around town with that.

01:38:28.860 You go for it.

01:38:29.600 she's so disingenuous by the way speaking of disingenuous did you guys watch uh the miracle

01:38:36.700 at msg the other night when the knicks turned it around after being down 30 points oh yeah we 0.54

01:38:42.780 i had like guys at the office have a video of us exploding when it happened

01:38:46.420 it was unlike i'm not even a sports person it was unlike anything we've ever seen i was sitting

01:38:51.200 there with my daughter my husband it was like no what they were down 30 then they were down 15 it

01:38:55.440 It was like, what, what?

01:38:56.740 Okay, but the reason I'm bringing this up

01:38:58.480 is Taylor Swift was there in the front row 0.52

01:39:01.960 pretending to be a Knicks fan.

01:39:03.640 And like, oh yeah, here I am.

01:39:05.160 I'm so excited.

01:39:06.080 Oh, the Knicks.

01:39:07.360 By the way, she was just at a Knicks-Cleveland game,

01:39:12.360 Cavaliers, rooting for Cleveland.

01:39:14.820 Well, that was her husband, right?

01:39:16.520 Who does she think she's kidding?

01:39:17.800 Isn't that our husband's team, Cleveland? 0.98

01:39:19.560 I mean, we do have marriages where-

01:39:21.280 She was there rooting for them, for the other team.

01:39:23.660 I didn't realize she was rooting for them.

01:39:25.220 Yes.

01:39:26.580 Okay, well.

01:39:27.320 She was there with him.

01:39:28.700 They were rooting for the Cavs. 0.98

01:39:30.020 She's a fake New York Knicks fan, and she's a fake person.

01:39:35.380 You know, Arthur, were you even born the last time the Knicks?

01:39:40.160 Yeah, I was six.

01:39:41.420 I don't remember, but I was six.

01:39:43.000 But I was there in 99 when they were in the finals.

01:39:44.900 I was right there, and that was a fantastic situation.

01:39:49.020 But this is, the other night was just sick.

01:39:51.760 It's a miracle.

01:39:53.520 The games one and two, which were in Texas, but I was in the city walking in the area of MSG and walking down the street as baskets are being made and the cheers from the city and the energy in the city.

01:40:10.640 It was just a wonderful thing.

01:40:12.300 You couldn't you couldn't have.

01:40:13.720 It's insane.

01:40:14.320 I'm looking right now.

01:40:16.120 I'm sitting here, Megan.

01:40:16.940 I'm looking at the NBA store.

01:40:19.060 They're big flagship stores diagonally across the street.

01:40:21.500 not only has it been packed for two weeks they're staying open like till 10 11 o'clock at night

01:40:27.140 what it has done this for the new york economy this next run in new york fantastic uh the bars

01:40:34.220 the restaurants we needed this yes we was saddled with mayor mom donnie for the love of god

01:40:39.020 we needed a w all right last but not least nick reiner this is in your backyard mark

01:40:46.800 Nick Reiner, the son of Rob Reiner and Michelle Reiner, who was accused of killing his parents, is working to get his trust fund, which has got a lot of money in it, $1.5 million to pay for his criminal defense.

01:41:04.320 He's going to get it.

01:41:05.640 It's a very interesting question because normally, like in New York, we have the son of Sam Law and out there in California have something similar.

01:41:14.740 It doesn't allow you to profit off of your crime.

01:41:16.800 But his argument is that this was a trust he was entitled to long ago, like when he turned 30 and for some reason just didn't get access to it.

01:41:24.980 So it's not like a will, like a like an insurance policy.

01:41:29.480 Right, Mark. So what do you make of it? Is he going to get it?

01:41:31.980 A lot of the chatter online has been how do you kill your parents or be accused of killing your parents and then profit from it?

01:41:39.080 And that's a separate issue. This is a trust.

01:41:42.120 if you believe what is being actually filed, that was formed when he was a youngster and a child.

01:41:50.460 And it was one of these trusts that was set up when parents are worried that it's going to screw

01:41:56.460 up their kids and make them trust fund babies. So it was not supposed to kick in until he turned

01:42:01.840 30. It was not distributed when he was 30. And they're going to litigate that. But my guess is,

01:42:08.020 as a practical matter when a judge sees this application and understands, look, right now,

01:42:16.200 the taxpayers are paying for his defense through the Office of Public Defender. If I free up money

01:42:25.920 here from the trust to pay Alan Jackson, that's going to be a zero-sum game of money that we don't

01:42:33.600 have to pay as taxpayers so i i expect that that money will get freed up and the the financial

01:42:42.640 aspect to the taxpayers is right on i mean megan should a guy who's got 1.5 million dollars in the

01:42:49.080 bank um get you know in this case they'll give him three lawyers two paralegals as secretary

01:42:55.780 you know it'll be a whole law firm literally working on this case and the people of california

01:43:00.900 are paying for it you know if it was in federal court maybe the federal judge would say because

01:43:06.700 they're much more strict in federal court about getting a free lawyer he would say no no let me 0.99

01:43:11.100 see all of your finances all of your ass no no you're not getting a free lawyer well you got 0.96

01:43:15.620 you know even 75 000 bucks there go find a lawyer there's some guy out there for 75 grand who's 0.99

01:43:20.940 going to take your case so you know it it does have something to do with why should the taxpayers

01:43:27.120 be paying for his defense when there's all this money there sitting and he's never going to use

01:43:31.740 it anyway because he's except for his commissary behind bars i know but like the the siblings i'm

01:43:38.460 sure are angry at the thought of their parents it's really the parents money you know that they

01:43:45.060 gifted to him he's i guess 32 so he was he was supposed to receive a disbursement at age 30 which

01:43:50.920 didn't happen while Michelle and Rob were still alive. And then another one at 35.

01:43:57.700 I don't know. I can see I can see the argument against doing it. But I take your point of they'd

01:44:02.780 rather saddle the trust with the burden and not the California taxpayer. Guys, a great discussion

01:44:08.460 all around. Have a great weekend. Go Knicks. Thank you. Great seeing both of you. Bye, you guys.

01:44:14.840 Likewise. All right. Have a great weekend to all of you as well. We'll see you Monday. And do

01:44:19.020 Do send in those emails about the show, about life, about anything on your mind.

01:44:23.800 It's Megan at MeganKelley.com.

01:44:26.740 See you Monday.

01:44:28.500 Thanks for listening to The Megan Kelly Show.

01:44:30.700 No BS, no agenda, and no fear.

01:44:49.020 Performance, that's all France.

01:44:50.340 Chocolate creme brulee had the richest finishes.

01:44:52.740 Canadian fireworks really showed up big too.

01:44:54.720 And Mexico's caramel churro ice cap gave me chills.

01:44:58.240 We are, of course, talking about Tim's taste of the globe lineup.

01:45:00.980 New globally inspired Timbits and ice cap flavors available at Tim Horton's for a limited time.

01:45:05.640 Pick some up today.

01:45:06.660 And while you're at it, check out Footy Prime Daily.

The Megyn Kelly Show - June 12, 2026

Austin Metcalf's Father Speaks Out, Plus False Karmelo Anthony Narratives, and Blake Lively Legal Fees Ruling, with Mark Geragos and Arthur Aidala ｜ Ep. 1338

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