Ayaan Hirsi Ali on the disturbing rise of violence against women in Europe by Muslim men ｜ Ep. 64
Episode Stats
Length
1 hour and 6 minutes
Words per minute
156.29413
Harmful content
Misogyny
60
sentences flagged
Toxicity
22
sentences flagged
Hate speech
80
sentences flagged
Summary
Ayaan Hirsi Ali is a bestselling author and one of the preeminent thought leaders of our time. Her courageous, bold reporting on Islam, on immigration, on women, has changed lives, globally, and opened the world s eyes to certain risks that too many would prefer to simply ignore out of a desire to be politically correct.
Transcript
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Welcome to The Megyn Kelly Show, your home for open, honest, and provocative conversations.
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Hey everyone, I'm Megyn Kelly. Welcome to The Megyn Kelly Show. Today on the program,
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Ayaan Hirsi Ali. You guys know her. We had her on a few months ago, but we're having her back
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and for a good reason today. Ayaan's a bestselling author and one of the preeminent thought leaders
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of our time, really. Her courageous, bold, really just fearless reporting on Islam,
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on immigration, on women, has changed lives, really globally, and opened the world's eyes
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to certain risks that too many would prefer to simply ignore out of a desire to be politically
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correct, to not see the evidence before their very eyes. And she does this all at great risk to
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herself. Ayaan is the target of an ongoing death order from Al Qaeda and other Islamic extremists
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who see her reporting on Islam as heresy. But on she goes. She will not be deterred. And it's really
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affected the way she has to live her life. So you've got to, I hope you'll pay attention to her.
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Ayaan is funny. We were, we were saying after we did this interview, she's soft-spoken, you know,
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and you're waiting to sort of hear what she's going to say. And, you know, you're listening
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to her and then boom, like the substance of what she says has you dropping your jaw because
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substantively she's done her homework and she's not afraid to tell you what the truth is.
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Her latest book, sure to be a bestseller, is called Prey, P-R-E-Y. And it takes a hard look at
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how the spike, the spike in Islamic men seeking asylum in Europe over the last five or six years
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have, instead of assimilating, started to turn the culture their way, in particular when it comes
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to misogyny and sexual assault. And the numbers are staggering. So we'll get to Ayaan in one second.
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Ayaan Hirsi Ali with her latest book, Pray. The subtitle is Immigration, Islam, and the Erosion
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of Women's Rights. Ayaan, thanks for coming back. So this, like all of your books, is an important
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one. And I confess something I hadn't been paying very close attention to. Can you explain to the
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audience, who are the pray, P-R-E-Y, referenced in the book title?
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The pray are women. The predators are men. In this case, the predators are immigrant men. They
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come mostly from Muslim-majority countries. The predators are unique in that they come from
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failed states or failing states. So there's this tendency to feel sorry for them. They themselves
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have been victims of violence. You know, men who come from places like Syria or Somalia or Eritrea or
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Afghanistan, they're men we tend to feel sorry for because they've been subjected to disruption,
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to violence, economic challenges. So you already feel sorry for them. You want them to succeed.
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And when they arrive in places like Europe, some of them, not all of them, they engage in behavior
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towards women. That's bad. They engage in sexual harassment and sometimes they act in groups and
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they behave like predators. So that makes it very difficult to call out their behavior.
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And now the pray, in this case, it's really all women. The cover of the book tells you some of these
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women are covered from head to toe. Some of them are teenagers. Some of them are as old as in their 70s.
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And people are having a hard time talking about it.
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Right. And you say that's one of the reasons you needed to write the book, because we've gotten to
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this place now where the only people raising the alarm on this, you know, this mass migration,
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in particular into Europe, and the changing of culture in a way that's very misogynistic,
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to put it mildly. The only people talking about it are sort of these far right groups and
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nationalists. And it's made it what you say is a taboo zone. And they monopolize the discussion.
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And then everybody else feels like they're racist or they're bigoted or they're not sympathetic to a
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struggling group. If they get real about what's happening right now with with respect to all this
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influx, and what it's doing in particular to women. Exactly, exactly right. So it's the wrong
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groups that are talking about a real thing. It's the Russian bots who are exaggerating this because
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they want to destabilize these European democracies. It's the radical Islamists who are talking about
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this because they're saying, look, we have the remedy for this. If you want these men to stop behaving
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in this way, we have the answer. These women need to cover up and they need to stay inside.
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And then you have the far, far right groups and the populists who are saying, you know what,
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we have the answer. Let's close the borders and deport these men. And immigration is bad. And all
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immigration is bad. And all immigrants are bad. And then you have to ask yourself, but where are all
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the mainstream rational establishment parties and peoples? And they're the ones who are saying,
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ouch, oh, we can't talk about this. Because if we do, we are going to empower the bad people.
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And that's the paradox. By not talking about it, they empower all the bad groups.
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Mm-hmm. And basically, I mean, what you're saying is that there are a lot of immigrant girls and women
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in Europe who have been dealing with this for some time. But it's gone beyond that. European women now
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are feeling the effects of this. And in parts of Europe, in some parts of Europe, you write there,
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there are no women walking around, walking in certain neighborhoods. You say in Brussels,
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London, Paris, or Stockholm, only men are visible for a number of reasons. What are they?
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So immigrant women have been dealing with it and are still dealing with it. So the, I mean,
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if you talk about victims, immigrant women are still the largest group of victims, whether they are the
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ones traveling on the same routes as these immigrant men, or whether they're their wives, sisters,
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nephews, nephews, nieces, you know, you name it, immigrant women, Muslim women, they still are the
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largest number of victims of sexual assault, sexual violence, forced marriages, female gender,
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you just name it. And for a long time, I think the attitude was this type of behavior just affects
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them, it doesn't affect us. And then it started to spill over, I guess, because of the scale of the
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number of men, and entire neighborhoods became demographically changed. What you see is European
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women who weren't affected in that way, started to display adapting mechanisms that immigrant women
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were displaying. So they would avoid certain streets, certain parks, neighborhoods, whole neighborhoods
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became empty of women. You know, you don't go to this cafe, you go to that cafe, you don't take this
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bus, you take that bus, you don't take this train, you take that train, you don't go to this park,
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you don't go to that park. What gets along, you don't leave your house, similar coping mechanisms
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that immigrant women or even women in the countries of origin had sort of were deploying
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for ages. This is now what European women or in some neighborhoods are doing. And what I'm
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documenting, actually, European women have documented in some countries is there are women free zones
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in Sweden, in France, in Germany. And that's interesting, because the promise of Europe was
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the immigrants are going to adapt, they will integrate, they'll assimilate. And now we're
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seeing actually assimilation in the wrong direction.
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Right, it's, it's, it's not happening where they were the immigrants get folded into the existing
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culture. They're, they're taking over the existing culture, at least in this way, which is not something
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anybody wanted to import, you know, a subjugation of women, that sort of difference in power between the
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sexes. And, you know, I, I look at sort of what you've written in the book, and I think
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it's hard to believe, it's hard to believe that a European woman, you know, a French woman would
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cover herself up when she wanted to wear a tank top, because of this would, you know, not eat at her
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favorite cafe, because more and more, you know, of these sort of migrant men who came from, let's say,
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Syria, are there. But it's not a bigotry thing. It's, it's the, as Gavin DeBecker would say, it's the
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gift of fear. They understand, given the data, they're at a very high increased risk for a sexual
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And the women I've interviewed actually stated just that way. They say, I'm not bigoted. I'm not against
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immigration. Many of them say, they vote for social democratic parties or left wing parties.
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They are very generous, compassionate people, they understand where these men come from, what their
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needs are. But they don't like the violence. They don't like to be harassed and assaulted and subjected
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to that kind of demeaning, derogatory, humiliating behavior. So they adopt these self-preserving behavior.
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And, you know, some women say, I don't wear high heels anymore. I wear tennis shoes. I will ask my
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boyfriend or my father or my brother to walk with me. You know, I look at my schedule, and I think,
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maybe tonight I'm not going to go out. I'll stay in. They adopt these, these, some of them wear their
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earpods because they don't want to hear this catcalling and obscene calls, inviting them to do
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They want it. They want their husbands or their boyfriends or their brothers to walk with them
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or their fathers. Why? Because how would it be perceived if a woman walked by herself in front of
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a lot of these young men? They're invited to have sex. They're perceived as hoarse. They're seen as
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constantly available to have sex. And it's not, the person inviting them, it's usually not even one
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person. It is, it's more people, two, three, four, these young men act in groups. I talked to
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a few people, immigrant men who have lived in some of these countries. For instance, the Egyptian
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Hamad Abdul-Samad, who lives in Germany. And he said, there's just this huge misunderstanding because
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some of these men, before they come into Europe, they have these prejudices against European women.
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And they see white women in Hollywood movies. They see them in pornographic movies. And then
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they are told when they communicate with relatives that, oh, when you come into Europe, you come
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into these asylum seekers centers or refugee places. And the first thing that happens is this white
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woman, we want to have a relationship with you. That's their prejudice. That's how they judge. And
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these things happen. And that's what they expect. They expect white European women to instantly jump
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into bed with them. And when that doesn't happen, they're confused. And no one is explaining to them
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that that's not how life works here. And the European women are confused and saddened and angered.
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And the men are confused and saddened and angered. And this is just a clash of values taking place in real
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time on these streets and other public spaces. Not not everyone. It's not happening to everyone.
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But it is happening. And it's large enough. And it's happening to enough women for this to cause
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problems. And very few people are talking about it. Now, I know that you say right up front in the book,
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being Muslim does not make you a threat to women. That's not what you're saying. And that the point
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of the book is not to demonize migrant men from the Muslim world. The point of the book is to shine
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a light in the same way Me Too did here in, you know, in America, to shine a light on what tend to
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be like really serious crimes against women in these other neighborhoods over in Europe, often, often
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low income, not always. But I mean, the crimes you document in the book, you mentioned gang rape,
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that's, that's like a thing that seems to be a go to. And it happens over and over rape the rapes of
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women. And then a slap on the wrist from the judicial system, Ayan. So before I get to all that,
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just speak to the fact that you're, you're not just trying to demonize Muslim men writ large.
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And I thank you so much, Megan, for saying that, because that's exactly it. The point of the book
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is not to demonize Muslim men, not all Muslim men guilty of or engage in sexual misconduct. A lot of
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Muslim men are really respectful of women. In fact, I've spoken to many of them during the research for
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this book. Many Muslim men have in many European countries started programs trying to educate and
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enlighten other Muslim men into respecting the dignity and the equality and the rights of women.
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So let's just put that out there. But this is causing a lot of social turmoil, a lot of political
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volatility. So it is a thing. Gun griefs are a thing. Homicide is a thing. And let's put that out
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there as well. Yeah. What caused the huge influx? You know, the book says about 3 million people
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arrived illegally in Europe since 2009, says the majority of whom have applied for asylum.
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Roughly half of those in 2015 and two thirds of those are male, two thirds. So it's a vast,
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vast majority are men, young men coming in seeking asylum. Why? Why now?
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So events such as the breakdown of Syria and before Syria events, I mean, Syria is obviously part of
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what people called the Arab Spring, which actually was the Arab nightmare. All of these Middle Eastern
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countries started to break down. And then you have obviously other events, Africa, the Middle East,
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and this will continue as I write in the book. We are now in the middle of COVID that has affected
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countries in Africa, the Middle East, parts of Asia. There'll be food shortages. Food shortages are going
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to cause conflict. Conflict is going to displace hundreds of thousands of people, if not millions
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of people. That is going to lead to an exodus of people. And it's who will be able to have the
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courage to cross the Mediterranean? Men, young men, unaccompanied young men. And so we will see a surge
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of young men try and make their way to where? Europe, the places where they think they can make
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a living. And so when you have, as Valerie Hudson, whom I quote in the book, and others say,
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when you have a surge of young men, you can have this type of, you know, disruptions,
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violence, but especially sexual violence against women. So this is something that should have been
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anticipated, especially, Megan, when countries in Europe were already dealing with failed integration
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or the failed integration or assimilation of first generation and second generation communities
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from Muslim-majority countries in those European countries. So the problem is compounding.
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It's getting worse. It's getting bigger, not smaller.
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We've got this mass influx of immigrants from these communities where women are not viewed as equal. And it
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adds to a pre-existing problem of non-assimilation. And so why is that? You know, I know you talk in the
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book about how here in America, we had the Irish come over, we had the Italians come over. And as we
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saw in the 1900s here in America, they had some rough years, but they immigrated. They adopted the
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culture without kissing off their cultural roots, but they adapted. And it's not happening there.
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These guys are maintaining their own culture. And as you point out, it's starting to act as a
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contagion outward. Why? I think the story of American immigration is very different.
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American, especially early immigration into America was selective. The story of America
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is still not, the immigration story of America is still a selective one. I know there are caravans
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arriving from Central and South America, but unlike in Europe, the story is still a selective one.
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And America is a heterogeneous nation. We have big confrontations about who we allow in,
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what the conditions are, and what happens if you don't assimilate. And the system of being thrown
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out, that's all very well established. It's very different. And then one more thing about America,
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the early Europeans who came in, even when they came from Eastern Europe, different parts of Northern
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Europe, the culture, there were cultural differences, but the gap wasn't that large. Here you have
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Europe, which was really mainly a homogenous continent, bringing people in from radically different
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cultures. Islamic civilization is very different from Christian civilization. And one big difference is
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the attitude towards women. And again, in Muslim majority countries, the attitudes toward women in the
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50s, 60s, 70s, had very much relaxed and began to resemble that of Europe. But then again, it went
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backwards. And so now if you are a young man growing up in those cultures in the 80s, 90s, you tend to be
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more misogynistic than, say, your fathers and grandfathers. And now we're seeing this encounter.
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Big story, too complex to talk about in a podcast. But these encounters are now happening on the streets
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of Europe. And some of these men are coming not only from, let's say, Islamist countries or Islamist
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influenced countries, but they're also coming from broken down societies, a country like Syria or Libya
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or Somalia. These are broken down societies. They don't even have any kind of order. And violence is
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the prevailing norm. And so it shouldn't surprise these European authorities that some of these men
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will behave in ways that are challenging in general.
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They're not going to learn the language. You know, it's that's that is one thing, but it's well beyond that,
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including you point out in the book, the like the way they view girls coming in, the way they practice their
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lies towards girls between, quote unquote, honor violence and genital mutilation, which you've been
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very open about the fact that you were subjected to that at five years old when you were in Somalia
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before you left. And you outline in the book something called grooming gangs, which are a part of certain
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of these cultures that now are popping up in Europe, too. I mean, it's horrific. Honor violence is basically
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your daughter, your Muslim daughter is not behaving in a way that you find honorable and you can murder
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her. The code in your religion sees no problem in you murdering your child. And then can you speak to
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that and to grooming gangs? What are they? So if you think about honor violence and you say, OK, my sister,
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my daughter, my mother, my daughter, my mother, the female in my family is supposed to behave in a modest
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way. And if she behaves in a way that violates that code of modesty, then she should be punished in
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several ways, the most extreme of which is to kill her. That is within a code. Where that code does not
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exist or where women are seen as immodest, then it is perfectly OK to see women as commodities and to
1.00
00:26:56.700
trade in them and to groom them and sell them to other men and rape them. And so if you look at what
1.00
00:27:04.580
the, say, these Pakistani gangs have done to the working class girls in the United Kingdom,
0.97
00:27:12.200
sell them to one another and rape them in, you know, sell one, two, three, four men. There were young
0.95
00:27:22.420
girls who were raped by over sometimes 10 or 20 men. That is because the men, the older men who are doing
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this to children don't view those girls as fellow human beings. They see them as toys. They see them as
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commodities, as commodities, as things. And that is something to you and me, it's incomprehensible,
00:27:47.900
but it is a mindset. Again, I'm not saying that's exclusive to Pakistanis or to Muslims, but it's
00:27:55.440
something we have to recognize as existing. And unless you name it and you shame it and you socialize
00:28:03.880
young men, regardless of where they come from, what their background is, what their culture is,
00:28:08.840
they're not going to learn to recognize girls and women as fellow human beings and empathize with
00:28:15.980
them as such. But it's so hard to socialize them out of that, right? Because more and more they
00:28:23.620
live in communities that are sort of shutting out the outside community, that they practice the same,
00:28:32.720
as you describe in the book, regressive religiosity, that they practice back at home. They continue to
00:28:38.860
see any attempt by the girls to become more westernized as verboten. That would be shot down.
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I mean, God forbid, punished with an honor violence situation. But how on earth do we crack through all
00:28:52.120
So the perpetrators in the case of the grooming gangs in the United Kingdom were born and raised in the
0.54
00:28:58.720
United Kingdom. The failure lies with the authorities in the United Kingdom because they knew this was
00:29:05.380
happening. They knew this was being done to the children, but they were terrified of being called
00:29:09.960
racist. And they made a trade-off. And the trade-off was that they were, they chose not to be identified
00:29:18.680
as racist. They were afraid of the insults and the pain that the insult of racism would cause them
00:29:25.320
rather than stand up for the children. They betrayed those children.
00:29:30.420
How can that be? I mean, I understand not swooping in and saying, learn English. I get that,
00:29:39.140
being perceived as culturally insensitive. I don't get there are grooming gangs where girls as young as 11
00:29:46.120
are being passed around to be repeatedly raped by different men and the cops don't do anything out
00:29:52.580
of political correctness. Some of these cops and other social workers and other grown-ups whose job
00:30:00.480
it was to stop this thing came out and confessed that the reason they didn't stop these horrendous
00:30:10.160
activities was because of their fear that they would be identified as bigots. And so it's obviously the acts of the perpetrators
00:30:20.760
and their perception of, you know, seeing, not seeing these girls as fellow human beings and just seeing them as
00:30:28.840
instruments, toys to be played with. But it's also the host society betraying these children because of their own
00:30:38.020
selfish self-image. So I think it is where, and here's where you have to talk about these things and
00:30:44.180
this clash of values. And this is what I want to achieve with this book is get everything out into
00:30:51.140
the open. It's not about only the immigrant men and it's not only about the people whose culture
00:30:57.280
wholeheartedly teaches misogyny, but it's also the people whose culture pretends that women are equal
00:31:05.420
and that, you know, we have this high-minded culture, but there's nothing when push comes to show.
00:31:11.800
That's right. They sit on their hands. Can you explain that regressive religiosity? Because that to me was a
00:31:18.460
new concept and it made a lot of sense when it comes to employability and why a lot of men in this
00:31:27.140
community are not getting jobs, which as everyone knows, never leads to anything good.
00:31:32.740
You know, starting in the late 70s, there's this rise in political Islam where there's a lot of
00:31:40.880
preaching that the answer to the reason why the Arab Muslim world is backward is because they left
0.95
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the basic tenets of Islam. So they were supposed to go back to the basic tenets of Islam.
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00:31:52.680
That is, you may have heard of organizations like the Muslim Brotherhood. That's ultimately what led to
00:31:58.620
Al-Qaeda, ultimately what led to the kind of extremism such as ISIS. A lot of these schools of radical
00:32:06.420
Islamist thoughts were established in various parts of Europe and even in the United States of America.
00:32:11.900
But that led then to people becoming more religious and rejecting modernity. And the more you study the
00:32:22.440
Koran, the more you go to the mosque, the more you reject modern life, obviously, the more, the less
0.96
00:32:28.820
prepared you are for it. Again, animosity towards women, animosity towards homosexuality, animosity towards
0.55
00:32:35.820
Jews and Jewish minorities, animosity to the society, modern society that you, that has hosted you.
1.00
00:32:43.040
And then the retreat into these ghettos. And I think that is where when you ask one part of what is
00:32:50.880
skipping integration from happening is this establishment of ghettos. This is what the French
1.00
00:32:57.560
president called Islamist separatism, which he now said he's tackling because they have these
0.87
00:33:05.100
drip drop of terrorist attacks. But then when there is a terrorist attack, you know, it dominates
00:33:12.960
the headlines. What doesn't dominate the headlines is this terrorizing of women in the streets and in
1.00
00:33:23.600
And when these men and their families stay in these, quote unquote, ghettos, they, maybe they
0.64
00:33:31.000
don't want to get out. Maybe their culture is just all around them and they don't feel, you know,
00:33:34.480
comfortable. But they, that these attitudes affect their ability to get a job or even want a job
00:33:41.120
working for, let's say a gay boss or in a company that has a bunch of women. They're, they're not
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00:33:47.800
supposed to be doing that. And, and I imagine if they try to do it anyway, and they have these
00:33:52.460
beliefs, it doesn't go very well. So you have a bunch of folks like immigrants from these countries
1.00
00:33:57.520
that are war torn, who aren't all that keen on assimilating in the first place, who may want a job,
00:34:02.560
but the field of jobs they're willing to do is very small. And then when doing them, I'm sure
00:34:12.360
It is if they even get to those jobs, because then that is also, like I said earlier, there's a response
00:34:19.720
from the potential employers who don't even want to hire them. And so if you, I don't know how much
00:34:26.760
time you've spent in many of these European countries, they don't want to hire them. So there's
00:34:30.500
this whole, they're discriminated against and they don't want the jobs. So you have a very
00:34:38.520
high unemployment rate. They depend on welfare that creates resentment. Men who are unemployed
00:34:46.200
and on welfare and bored and are on the streets and then are up to no good. And, you know, you just
00:34:53.460
have this whole cycle of negative behavior, rejection. That is, they reject the society
00:35:04.480
they've come to, the society they've come to rejects them and they engage in negative behavior
00:35:10.720
towards women and others. And this goes on and on. And this is just really, that's what I mean by
00:35:16.600
failed integration. Again, not everyone. There's a slice of immigrants, men and women, who adjust
00:35:24.560
and adapt, but there's a large swathe of them that failed to adapt and are overrepresented in crime
00:35:33.740
statistics, in welfare. That's what it's called in Europe. I think we call them entitlements here,
00:35:39.880
or food stamps or something like that. School dropouts, you know, menial jobs. And then there
00:35:47.520
are all the accusations of, there is racism and discrimination and exclusion. And then, oh yeah,
00:35:54.480
but then there is terrorism and sexual violence and domestic violence. And this goes on and on.
00:36:01.160
And the numbers are getting bigger and bigger and bigger. And there are more and more immigrants
00:36:05.060
coming in. Immigration situation never gets addressed. People just keep arriving and arriving
1.00
00:36:09.060
and arriving. Yeah, it's not good. There's no abatement anytime soon. And on that point of the
00:36:13.840
increase in sexual violence, the book Prey points out that places like England, Wales, Denmark, Sweden,
00:36:22.160
after 2015, you just saw like the numbers started to shoot up, that they've doubled, you say,
00:36:27.820
they've doubled the number of sexual violence incidents in three years in some of these places.
00:36:32.880
Germany, striking increase in rape cases after 2015, when Merkel let in a lot of Syrians and others.
00:36:40.520
Sweden, doubling of sex offenses against women between 14 and 16, doubling people, double.
00:36:46.780
And then you go, the book goes through, and I credit you for this, Ayan, because
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it's one thing to sort of make the generalization to say the stats are going up and it's troubling.
00:36:57.540
It's another to actually show the cases. And that, to me, is the most disturbing part of the book,
00:37:02.480
but also eye-opening, where these crimes are happening and these defendants get a slap
00:37:08.560
on the wrist and excuse-making, sometimes even by the victims. Sometimes the European women in
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00:37:17.240
particular feel somehow bad having an immigrant get prosecuted for hurting her. That's nuts.
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00:37:22.860
Um, but also the judges, you talk in the, in the, you write in the book about one case in which
00:37:28.780
the judge, after a man had a woman, it was a 23-year-old Turkish man who had a woman for four
00:37:37.400
hours tied to a bed where he was raping her in 17, in Berlin, this is. And the defense was basically,
00:37:45.980
I thought it was consensual, given the way my culture works. And they bought it. The judge was
00:37:53.000
like, you're right, acquitted. It just doesn't seem possible.
00:37:56.900
I know. And this is just the madness of it all, that culture and cultural defense is used in
00:38:04.540
sometimes to say it doesn't exist, just as an argument of denial. And so culture is not a factor
00:38:16.360
here. And at other times it's used exactly as an explanation where he couldn't know because in
00:38:24.540
his culture, it's okay. And that is what's mind boggling.
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00:38:32.100
In a minute, I'm going to ask Ayan whether this problem is likely to come here to the United States
00:38:38.160
and you will hear that answer. But first let's talk about Armbrust USA. You know,
00:38:43.180
you're supposed to wear like 40,000 masks now. It's up to 40,000. Well, you better buy them from
00:38:49.760
a company you trust. And that's where Armbrust comes in. I like these guys. They're basically like,
00:38:54.340
look, you're being forced to wear a mask. We get it. We're going to give you the safest kind.
00:38:58.980
We're going to make them look good. And by the way, we love America. We're going to manufacture
00:39:02.600
them here and not in China and do our part. Right. So you got to wear it. So go to Armbrust for it
00:39:09.240
because they're on the same page. We all know that the gaiters and the bandanas and the cloth masks,
00:39:13.860
they don't work is what they say. And they're not going to get the country back to work. And by the way,
00:39:17.480
they're basically banned now on all federal property, thanks to Joe Biden. So you got to get the real deal.
00:39:22.360
Go to Armbrust where you can. For 20 years, our country, you may not know, has been outsourcing
00:39:28.480
America's strategic manufacturing of PPE equipment to China. Oh, the irony. When the pandemic hit,
00:39:36.820
the Chinese Communist Party hoarded vast quantities of the supplies, including surgical masks and 95s
00:39:42.440
and so on, endangering our doctors, our nurses and our frontline workers. And Americans came together
00:39:46.840
to solve the problem. But that was never going to be a long term solution, the sewing masks at home
00:39:51.940
and the bandanas and all that. And so now here we are having to wear them. So why not go to a company
00:39:57.800
that has a factory in Texas and that is producing millions of FDA listed ASTM level three surgical
00:40:03.480
masks, even for hospital workers and frontline workers? If it's good enough for them, it's good
00:40:08.320
enough for us. Here's how you do it. Go to don't shut down mask up.com and use the coupon code MK to
00:40:16.620
save 20% off on your order of a pack of Armbrust USA masks. These lightweight, breathable, hypoallergenic
00:40:23.700
masks, again, are FDA listed and made in America. Don't buy cheap, non-medical knockoffs masks or fake
00:40:30.780
ones bought from China. They're simply not sending us their best products. Buy American at don't shut down
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mask up dot com today. And now I want to bring you a feature we call sound up here in the program.
00:40:44.740
Remember how the Biden White House was going to be like totally transparent with us and they were
00:40:50.740
going to this is going to be the one that restored like trust to the White House, this administration
00:40:55.620
and their spokespeople? Well, I'll let you be the judge. On the Megyn Kelly show, we have had on some
00:41:00.720
of the smartest minds when it comes to the trans trend and the massive rise of girls.
00:41:06.240
girls saying that they're trans now. I mean, it's basically, you know, biological girls who claim
0.52
00:41:12.060
they're trans and that they're actually boys. We've heard from Abigail Schreier, Dr. Debra Soe.
00:41:17.240
These folks have been ostracized and dismissed as bigots. They're not not even close. They're looking
00:41:23.060
at science and real data and jumping up and down with some important red flags. Not unlike Ayaan on her
00:41:29.260
issues. Well, the topic came up recently in the Biden administration in the press briefing room
00:41:34.460
when one reporter asked the press secretary, Jen Psaki, about the issue. Apparently, it's a Fox
00:41:40.000
News radio reporter. I actually don't remember this gal, although her name's familiar. I will say it's
00:41:44.720
not the best articulated question. All right. But what she was asking was pretty clear. And what's
00:41:49.820
important is the answer? Listen. President Biden's transgender rights executive action,
00:41:55.500
specifically when it applies to high school sports. What message would the White House have
00:42:00.380
for trans girls and cis girls who may end up competing against each other in sparking some
00:42:07.920
lawsuits and some concern among parents? So this administration have guidance for schools on
00:42:14.500
dealing with disputes rising over trans girls competing against and with cis girls.
00:42:20.540
Ms. I'm not sure what your question is. The president's executive order.
00:42:25.220
Ms. I'm familiar with the order, but what was your question about it?
00:42:27.940
The Press. My question is, does the president have a message for local school officials on dealing
00:42:32.320
with these kind of disputes that are already starting to arise between trans girls who are competing
00:42:39.880
and cis girls in a level playing field, particularly in high school sports when it leads to
0.99
00:42:45.840
college scholarships? Is there any kind of messaging or clarification that the White House wants to
00:42:50.800
give on the executive order? I would just say that the president's belief is that trans rights are
00:42:56.240
human rights, and that's why he signed that executive order. And in terms of the determinations by
00:43:01.520
universities and colleges, I would certainly defer to them. That's it? Trans rights are human rights?
00:43:08.140
What about women's rights? What about the rights of girls to compete on a fair and level playing
00:43:15.800
field? What about them? I realize these are tricky issues. Don't get me wrong. If I had a child who was
00:43:22.920
trans, I would want them to be able to compete in sports in a way that was fair to them, but fair to
00:43:28.700
everyone. And we've got to start having these real conversations about how we can take care of these
00:43:34.420
children, right? But not always at the expense of the girls, not always at the expense of the women
00:43:40.040
who no longer get to call themselves women. If you look at these, what these activists are telling us,
00:43:44.240
right, who can't talk about the fact that it is women who menstruate and it's women who have
0.98
00:43:48.480
children, right? You're not allowed to say that. Somehow you're a bigot if you say that. Well, I said it.
00:43:52.800
It's the truth. And it doesn't mean I'm not supportive of the trans community.
00:43:59.300
This whole thing reminded me, and I, you know, I'm going to forward this to Jen Psaki. I'm going to
00:44:02.980
send it to the White House of a New York Post op-ed piece that was, that was published back in 2019
00:44:09.260
by a concerned mom out of Connecticut who was sounding the alarm on this. And she was talking about
00:44:13.980
her daughter, Alana, saying, my daughter has worked day and night to be a star athlete. As a freshman,
00:44:21.600
I'm reading now. She led her high school team to its third straight team championship in the
00:44:26.100
Connecticut Interscholastic Athletic Conference by winning the 100-meter, 200-meter, 400-meter
00:44:30.500
and one of the most dominant individual performances in meet history. She was an integral
00:44:35.440
component in the team's first place finish in the state open and in smashing pairs of records
00:44:40.480
at the New England championships in Maine. I think this is track. Alana has devoted countless days,
00:44:46.580
nights, and weekends to training. She pushes herself to shave mere fractions of a second from her race times,
00:44:50.980
blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. It's all like how hard the girl works. Then she says, since 17,
00:44:55.820
our state's high school athletic conference has allowed biological boys to compete against girls.
00:44:59.780
It's enough that they just subjectively identify as female. That's all they have to do.
0.95
00:45:06.500
And since then, two biological boys have won 15 women's track championships,
00:45:11.380
titles held by nine different girls in 2016. Not only that, she writes, the same two biological boys
00:45:17.340
have taken away more than 50 chances for girls to compete at the next level of competition,
00:45:22.260
running these girls right off the track, forcing them to be spectators in their own sport,
1.00
00:45:28.260
trans rights or human rights. Jen Psaki, pay attention. Pay attention. Here's the mom continuing
0.98
00:45:34.840
about her daughter Alana's experience. As a parent, it is gut-wrenching to know that no matter how hard
00:45:41.140
my daughter works to achieve her goals, she will lose athletic opportunities to a pernicious
1.00
00:45:45.680
gender ideology. Left unchecked, this ideology will in the long run eliminate fair play for all
1.00
00:45:51.980
biological females in sports. As we're seeing in Connecticut, a biological boy's subjective sense
00:45:56.860
of his gender doesn't cancel out his physical advantage over girls. And I'll leave you with this
00:46:03.520
piece of it. Lest I be assailed by the PC crowd, the mom, this has nothing to do with white privilege.
1.00
00:46:10.280
My daughter is a beautiful young woman of color. Nor is it about lifestyle. I believe love is love.
00:46:16.760
It is about fairness of play, about women not being spectators in their own sports, about a level
00:46:23.740
playing field. I want to get this woman on the show. And maybe we can get Jen Psaki to consider
1.00
00:46:30.540
Alana's experience and do better than trans rights or human rights. How empty, how shallow, right?
1.00
00:46:40.280
Either she doesn't know what she's talking about. She hasn't done her homework. And so she's just too
00:46:45.100
empty headed to speak intelligently on the subject, which is a problem. Or she knows all about it and
00:46:51.760
she just dodged because it's too politically fraught. Also a problem. The whole thing really
00:46:57.160
upsets me because more and more we're seeing biological girls and biological women get the
0.99
00:47:01.920
short end on these things. And when anybody speaks up to say, hey, I'm not sure that's fair. It's
00:47:06.420
shut up, bigot. Well, this isn't going to cut it. This doesn't inspire confidence. I'll tell you
0.99
00:47:11.820
that, that our current administration is thinking critically around this important issue, but we're
00:47:15.660
going to stay on it. Here, we'll bring you the facts and the truth and hopefully this mom.
0.98
00:47:20.300
And that is another edition of Sound Up. Now back to Ayaan Hirsi Ali.
00:47:25.080
For like the last three decades, it's just as we described, things are getting worse. And then a
00:47:36.000
great event happens like the 2015 event. And we know it's going to happen again. Things will spike
00:47:41.880
again because of all the events we talked about, but never preparing for these events. And when things
00:47:48.380
get out of hand, the cultural or religious elements will be either to deny or to explain, but just,
00:47:56.980
it's really a mind-boggling. There's a case you detail of an 18-year-old named, it looks like
00:48:03.700
Francesca W. Yeah. Saying she left, is it Freiburg? Is that in Germany, I assume? Yeah. Okay.
00:48:10.840
Nightclub in October of 2018 with a Syrian asylum seeker that she had met,
00:48:18.380
inside. Unbeknownst to her, he was already a suspect in a gang rape. He rapes her. And then
00:48:27.060
he invited 11 men to join in, Syrians and Iraqi and Algerian and one German between the ages of 19 and
00:48:36.080
29. And these guys got prison terms at the most of three to four years. Couple got suspended sentences.
00:48:44.620
I like that. Then there's another, you detail another story in the area on where somebody who
00:48:51.180
had, who had raped a woman and then she died. He left her to drown by the river bank. He had come
00:48:57.860
in from Afghanistan. He claimed to be an unaccompanied minor from Afghanistan. He was placed with a German
00:49:03.020
family, a German host family and had been sent to school. So Germany rolls out the red carpet for this
0.64
00:49:08.220
guy. Turns out he's from Iran, we think. And then they find out he was already convicted of a murder
00:49:14.100
in Greece. And the Greek cops said, you know what? He was unremorseful when he did it here. When we asked
00:49:19.600
him, why did you kill this woman? He said, that's just a woman. So how did these people with criminal
0.83
00:49:25.120
convictions in their, in a European country or in another country that came before even get accepted
00:49:32.480
into the country as a potential asylum candidate? This is all illustration after illustration of
00:49:38.960
how these systems are failing their women. It's gruesome story after gruesome story after gruesome
1.00
00:49:45.560
story. And Megan, they'll say, we accept these people, but they never adjust the institutions
00:49:52.500
not to protect their women, not to accept the immigrants. Nothing changes. They don't adjust the
1.00
00:50:00.420
immigration system. They don't adjust the integration system. They don't protect their
0.98
00:50:05.500
women. It is just too ludicrous for words. They demonize anybody who questions their motives.
1.00
00:50:16.100
Why don't they get deported on crime number one?
00:50:18.960
You have to look at the deportation systems, which we try to look at in the book. And there is just this
00:50:25.480
huge incompetence around these subjects and all the incompetence that just, this is sheer
00:50:32.140
incompetence. The incompetence is all hidden behind moralizations. They moralize. And if you ask the
00:50:40.300
questions you're asking, which we've asked, they'll moralize at you and they'll demonize you. If you ask
00:50:44.960
these questions and the only people who will talk to you, they will say, who will, who will be honest
00:50:49.720
with you, they'll say, please don't mention my name. We'll talk to you anonymously. If you wanted to
00:50:54.900
deploy, we had the resources and you wanted to deploy, let's say, just investigative resources to get to
00:51:02.540
the bottom of this. I think you could uncover a lot, but you would find a lot of people talking to you
00:51:11.600
I know you went to a lot of these European countries. You had research assistants who did
00:51:17.300
the same. And in the book, you recount how in, in places like Brussels or certain Paris districts
00:51:26.040
and elsewhere, you'll walk by and you'll see some of these migrant men freely playing soccer in the
00:51:31.920
park. And occasionally you'll see a Muslim woman veiled in black from head to toe, seen hurrying along,
00:51:38.460
you know, behind or, but, but what you won't see is what you would expect to see, which is European
00:51:44.940
women out doing their thing, living their lives. But like just the dynamic has changed where it looks
00:51:50.420
more like Turkey or it looks more like Iran. And the meantime, gun sales are going up. Women are buying
00:51:58.600
guns and have to download something called a no go zone app on their phone to figure out where is safe
00:52:07.000
and where is not, and they're buying pepper spray and they're buying, or, and then it gets even more
00:52:13.000
ridiculous. They're being advised to wear, um, bracelets, um, that are supposed to emit, uh, skunk
00:52:23.400
like smells. Um, they're putting signs up, let's say, uh, no, um, groping. I mean, it's getting
00:52:33.720
to ridiculous points. Um, the mayor is giving advice. Don't wear high heels. Um, they've consulted
00:52:42.900
with the imams who say, well, then don't sell alcohol, uh, to young men. I mean, it's, we found
0.99
00:52:52.620
again, it's not all neighborhoods. I also want to point out, you will find a lot of European women
0.99
00:52:59.780
lounging freely and doing their own European thing in parks and stuff like that, but it's, um,
00:53:07.040
in working class neighborhoods. So this is a class thing also. It's the working class women who are
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being let down. It's, uh, you have to go very far from your neighborhood. Basically the burden of the
00:53:24.040
unintended consequences of this type of immigration is being born by the women with in low income
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neighborhoods, but it's spreading to some areas. And we have been to neighborhoods that are completely
00:53:36.480
women free. Uh, there is a Swedish senior politician who was taken to a neighborhood and he was, uh,
00:53:43.140
asked to take a tour around and he was asked what's missing here. And he looked around and he couldn't
00:53:47.420
turn it. It's women. Wow. The thing you mentioned in the book was anti-rape underwear. There there's
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now a product you can buy. It's like some bizarre chastity. I don't know what it is, but when your
00:54:00.240
society has had to resort to that and skunk smelling bracelets, you got a problem. You got a problem.
00:54:07.040
It needs a dressing. Um, yeah, I mean, you have to laugh cause it's just so absurd. But, you know,
00:54:13.440
I think the other, the other piece of this is like you talk in the book about what happened to the
00:54:17.080
feminists, right? Where are the feminists? Why aren't they fighting this war? Well, a lot of them
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are like, uh, the new commissioner of Europe, von der Leyen. It's, um, they're so preoccupied with
00:54:29.160
this glass ceiling and women CEOs. Um, uh, and Hey, uh, don't get me wrong. I think that's a fine
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00:54:38.820
cause to fight for. I don't envy them for that, but there is no feminism right now that is fighting
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that cause. Maybe one day working class women and immigrant women will join hands and fight this
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particular cause because it affects them. They share those neighborhoods where they're being harassed
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and groped and raped by strange men that they don't know who, and these strange men are acting in
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groups. And maybe these women should act in groups and say, we need our neighborhoods to be safe.
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But right now there is no feminist movement that is acting for them. Identity politics and the
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feminism that that has produced is not fighting for them. It's silencing them. You should see this
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00:55:27.300
woman, uh, who has reviewed play in the New York times today. It's published today. She's making a
00:55:33.520
complete caricature of the book. And that's the type of voice that is not doing anything for them,
00:55:41.160
not doing anything. She, she, uh, leveling the bigotry accusation and the sweeping generalizations,
00:55:47.460
that kind of thing. Exactly. Total silence. Just making a caricature, uh, the white woman versus
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black man, uh, bigotry and just bullshit. Sorry. I don't, I didn't mean to use that word,
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but no, it's fine. I mean, does it, does it count in her book if it's black women getting,
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I mean, cause black women are having this happen to like, this is so absurd. I guarantee you that
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woman is living in some Brooklyn Brownstone is sipping a latte on her iMac writing this and not
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really giving two dams about what's happening to any woman of any skin color over there, just as long
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as she thinks she's on the quote right side. Absolutely. And I would invite her to walk in any
00:56:23.420
of those neighborhoods if she had the time. Exactly. She's in a Brooklyn Brixton. So that type
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of feminism is doing nothing for these women, but that's exactly what needs to happen. I think these
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women, they have to stand up for themselves. And I thank you from the bottom of my heart for giving
00:56:40.580
a platform airtime. Of course, of course. I mean, you'll touch the third rail on issues nobody wants
00:56:48.100
you to touch. And then they try to dismiss you by saying that you, you know, you, you say all Muslims
00:56:53.040
are bad or rapists or what have you. And you've never said that you've always been careful about
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your language. They just refuse to hear it. So let me ask you this. What, what now? Right. I mean,
00:57:05.520
I would say tighten the, the migration rules. Um, but how are they going to have to deal with the
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asylum framework? I guess. I mean, what, what, what would be the first thing you talk in the book
00:57:17.240
about Angela Merkel got Europe into a lot of this mess by accepting so many of these people in
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Germany? Let me put it to you, another woman, how to get us out of this mess. What, what's the
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solution? The solution is to expose the incompetence. It's to say, if you want true leadership, you have
00:57:33.740
to revisit the whole idea of asylum. That is to get to the big picture of how in this interconnected
00:57:40.960
world, are we going to deal with the large movements of masses and masses of people, especially
00:57:46.800
young men? What types of solutions are the rich countries going to, like working together, do in
00:57:54.180
the countries of origin? How many people can we take in? What does asylum even mean anymore? What, you
00:58:00.420
know, how are we going to deal with economic refugees? What are we going to do to protect
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the rights and freedoms of women? What about immigration? What about integration? If you want
00:58:14.260
to sacrifice social cohesion and encourage political volatility in wealthy countries, then fling the
00:58:22.960
doors open and invite everyone in. And that's fine. And there's no need to have a difference between
00:58:29.460
rich countries and poor countries. Everybody can be a poor country.
00:58:36.540
And I know you think sex education is important too.
00:58:41.600
Sex education is important. But if you want to have sex education, if you want the values of
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freedom and equality and women's rights, a true challenge to bigotry, if you want to challenge
00:58:55.220
those, then you are going to have to wade into the culture wars and which values are superior
00:59:01.740
to which values. And for that, you need courage. You need to address those. And that's exactly what
00:59:09.620
these European leaders lack, most of them at any rate.
00:59:14.360
Although you've pointed out last time we talked about that Macron seems to have grown a spine
00:59:18.340
and in particular is focusing on multiculturalism, which I know you say we've got to avoid this
00:59:25.420
obsessive focus on this, that we can't treat that term and that idea of multiculturalism.
00:59:32.400
You know, we can be next to each other in the same country with very, very different norms and ethics
00:59:41.680
Yes. He said we cannot have these Islamist separatist neighborhoods and the values of the
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republic prevail. So yes, he has grown a spine and that means a complete rejection of multiculturalism
00:59:57.540
and moral relativism. The question is, is he doing this only because he wants to win the elections of
01:00:04.500
next year or is this a lasting proposition which he really is going to fight for even after he
01:00:13.140
Well, and also how does he force it? You know, you look at those, what I guess they're called
01:00:16.860
dish cities in outside of Paris or, you know, where they're basically, you say in the book,
01:00:22.360
they're cultural enclaves where people are watching satellite TV from abroad, not really tuning into
01:00:27.240
the local culture, but how does he enforce it? You know, how, how do you get those people back out
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into the culture, make them take sex ed, start to, I don't know, make them love brie and wine and
01:00:38.140
beautiful Parisian women in a way that's appropriate.
01:00:42.740
They don't have to eat brie and drink wine and love Parisian women, but they have to keep their
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hands to themselves and respect women. And, you know, there are some basic values about the rule of
01:00:57.320
law and sort of just these basic boundaries of live and let live. And Megan, we've been subjected
01:01:03.680
at least the last 11 or 12 months to the COVID rules, social distancing, wearing the mask,
01:01:11.560
these lockdowns. And I think if these governments were to make this a priority, they could do it.
01:01:19.700
They know they can. We know they can. It's just never been a priority.
01:01:27.640
It depends on the number of, it's always a scale thing. And in Europe, they do have now this scale
01:01:34.720
that they have to worry about it. And in the United States, I think where, and they don't have to be
01:01:40.560
Muslim men. It's just that where you have a large enough number of men who don't give two hoots about
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01:01:49.960
women's rights, then you have to worry about it. And we shall see if we have a government that will
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01:01:57.020
enforce the laws we have. Fortunately, in America, you don't get a slap on the wrist for rape.
01:02:03.040
That's right. Yeah, we're doing some things right. Ayan, once again, it's an eye-opening read. I was
01:02:09.660
happy to read it, to blurb it, and to support it. And I think people will find it very informational,
01:02:15.440
a little scary, but it's almost a civic responsibility to read it. And we got to stay
01:02:19.520
up on what's happening over there. They're our friends. Europe's our friends. We all, I remember
01:02:25.260
covering the Syrian war in detail, and the pictures were so horrific. And there really was a question
01:02:30.680
of what to do with the refugees and what to do with the children. And at the time, Angela Merkel was
01:02:35.960
praised as a hero for letting everybody in. And now you see that the consequences of some of those
01:02:41.720
decisions, some of which were foreseen and some of which weren't. This is the other piece of the
01:02:46.200
story. So as usual, Ayan is ahead of the curve on it. And by the way, has a new podcast, which is
01:02:52.660
exciting. How did it go, the first episode? It was fantastic. Thank you so much. And Megan,
01:02:58.380
you are always amazing and always so supportive. Thank you so, so, so very much. My pleasure.
01:03:34.500
Be on the lookout for our next episode, which you're going to want to hear. Let me tell you
01:03:39.640
what happened. A young Caucasian student at a girl's school, a private Catholic girl's school
01:03:47.200
in St. Louis has filed a lawsuit claiming that she has been relentlessly bullied, targeted and
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attacked. Not exactly physically, but rhetorically and in other ways, because she was the subject
01:04:03.500
of a racism allegation that she says was totally unfounded. And she said she can prove it was
01:04:09.320
totally unfounded. But what happened was the school, according to her, allowed a torrent of
01:04:16.520
bullying to be unleashed against her. And we're going to get into what happened to her life. You've got to
01:04:21.160
hear it to believe it. And the school did nothing. Nothing. Why? Because they were terrified. Because
01:04:29.360
the person accusing her was black. Because that person was claiming she was the victim of our
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plaintiff's alleged behavior. And it goes from there. But it's an intriguing and telling and disturbing
01:04:45.240
story. And this is the first time this young woman has spoken out. She's just filed a lawsuit. She's
01:04:50.780
going by Jane Doe. But she's here. And she's going to tell us everything. And guess who she's represented
01:04:55.340
by? Remember Mark McCloskey? The guy who was brandishing the weapon with his wife out in front
01:05:02.160
of his home in St. Louis last summer as the BLM protesters came into his neighborhood, his private
01:05:09.120
gated community that was trespassing. It was private. And they didn't much care. He's her
01:05:14.560
lawyer. That guy's a lawyer. And he's representing her. So we'll talk to him about her case and a bit
01:05:19.100
about his own. So don't miss our next episode. It's on Wednesday. And I promise you, you're going
01:05:24.620
to enjoy it. See you then. Thanks for listening to The Megyn Kelly Show. No BS, no agenda, and no fear.
01:05:33.580
The Megyn Kelly Show is a Devil May Care media production in collaboration with Red Seat Ventures.
01:05:39.120
Thanks for listening to The Megyn Kelly Show.
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