The Megyn Kelly Show - Ben Shapiro on Firing Fauci, Uncanceling Carano, and Ditching California

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00:00:31.000 Welcome to The Megyn Kelly Show.

00:00:33.160 Your home for open, honest, and provocative conversations.

00:00:42.520 Hey everyone, I'm Megyn Kelly. Welcome to The Megyn Kelly Show.

00:00:45.640 Today we've got Ben Shapiro.

00:00:47.900 Very excited. I love talking to him. He's so funny.

00:00:50.580 So clever. He's always got new insights on the issues of the day.

00:00:54.160 As you know, he's the host of The Ben Shapiro Show.

00:00:57.140 Huge, huge podcast. So super successful.

00:01:00.000 And co-founder of The Daily Wire, which is just branching out to become this huge

00:01:03.940 conglomerate, fighting back against all the things we dislike.

00:01:07.920 So looking forward to having him on in one second.

00:01:10.560 But one of the things that we're going to talk about is something I want to kick the show off with

00:01:13.420 today. And that is, we've got great news.

00:01:15.560 Dr. Marty Macaray, a professor at the Johns Hopkins School of Medicine, reveals to us publicly that cases are down 77% right now.

00:01:36.240 This is in the Wall Street Journal the other day.

00:01:38.260 As he put it in that piece, if a medication slashed cases by 77%, we would call it a miracle pill.

00:01:43.960 And this guy says it is time to level with the public about the good news.

00:01:50.320 We will have herd immunity by April.

00:01:54.020 April. That means we've only got one more month to get through.

00:01:58.020 By April. It's amazing.

00:02:00.640 We can finally take off these damn masks and go back to normal, right?

00:02:03.560 Well, not so fast.

00:02:06.480 Dr. Wet Blanket Fauci says the masks, you might still be forced to wear them through 2022.

00:02:15.840 Listen.

00:02:16.920 You and the president have suggested that we'll approach normality toward the end of the year.

00:02:22.280 What does normal mean?

00:02:23.600 Do you think Americans will still be wearing masks, for example, in 2022?

00:02:27.980 You know, I think it is possible that that's the case.

00:02:30.840 And, again, it really depends on what you mean by normality.

00:02:35.780 Right. That's what I want you to define it.

00:02:37.700 If normality is exactly the way it...

00:02:38.940 No, Dana, it's important because if normality means exactly the way things were before we had this happen to us,

00:02:49.040 I mean, I can't predict that.

00:02:50.760 I mean, obviously, I think we're going to have a significant degree of normality beyond what the terrible burden that all of us have been through over the last year.

00:03:02.020 Okay. So, you might still be forced to wear your mask for another year or two.

00:03:08.940 Just no, okay? No.

00:03:12.080 We're not doing that.

00:03:13.540 I mean, I just don't...

00:03:14.160 Like, I'm not doing that.

00:03:15.280 I'm not wearing my mask through 2022.

00:03:16.940 And it's absurd to suggest that that long after achieving herd immunity, the country should be asked that.

00:03:23.820 Some of us are not hysterics.

00:03:25.760 Some of us see that the virus is not currently the existential threat, that the drama-prone have insisted it remains.

00:03:32.880 Some of us are willing to tolerate a certain amount of risk in our lives and not hand sanitizing 20 times a day or wearing masks interminably.

00:03:40.640 It's a dare that we're willing to take.

00:03:43.340 We sucked it up because we were told we had to for the good of society.

00:03:47.000 We did it for a damn year.

00:03:48.500 But it's ending.

00:03:49.800 It's better.

00:03:50.700 Admit it.

00:03:52.100 We could wear masks forever.

00:03:54.040 We could prevent all sorts of germ spreading if we did that.

00:03:56.480 I'm sure the flu is way down this year.

00:03:58.120 But most of us have zero desire to live like that.

00:04:02.040 And it's not up to the government to tell us that we must.

00:04:05.240 So, no, I, for one, will not be wearing a mask through 2022.

00:04:08.340 I am pretty much done doing it now, but so far I've been compliant out of respect for the fear of others.

00:04:14.980 And I don't know about you, but I don't have much more of this in me.

00:04:18.020 I am over the mask.

00:04:20.540 We did our part.

00:04:21.420 We shut down businesses.

00:04:22.680 We stayed at home.

00:04:23.760 We didn't eat out.

00:04:24.880 We missed weddings and funerals.

00:04:27.220 Our kids missed a year of school.

00:04:28.840 The suicide rate went up.

00:04:30.560 So did the overdoses, the bankruptcies, depression, and enough is enough.

00:04:34.660 So, you know what?

00:04:36.340 If Dr. Macri and others say that we have achieved herd immunity in April, I am going to accept that and celebrate it.

00:04:44.280 I won't be wearing my mask for another year.

00:04:47.760 And I don't really care if Dr. Fauci or Joe Biden or the preening mask brigades on the streets of the Upper West Side of Manhattan don't like it.

00:04:56.840 Maybe it's just me, but I don't think it is.

00:05:01.080 I'll get Ben Shapiro's thoughts on Fauci, and they're interesting today in just a second.

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00:06:13.420 And now, Ben Shapiro.

00:06:16.900 So let's start with Dr. Fauci.

00:06:19.360 And by the way, it's not just Fauci.

00:06:20.920 Other doctors, too.

00:06:21.640 There's this guy, John Klein, Dr. John Klein of the University of Louisville Med School.

00:06:25.280 He's suggesting we may need to wear masks, quote, for years after herd immunity.

00:06:30.260 I mean, let's just wear them forever.

00:06:31.580 Let's just never take them off.

00:06:33.800 I'm not doing it.

00:06:34.920 I'm not doing it.

00:06:36.260 No.

00:06:36.540 I mean, at this point, it is pretty clear from the studies that we have available that

00:06:40.460 not only does the vaccine prevent you from dying of the disease, like at a 99 percent

00:06:44.780 efficacy rate, but it also prevents you from transmitting the disease, according to the

00:06:47.700 new Israeli data, at like a 90 percent rate.

00:06:49.880 So if it's preventing you from transmitting and preventing you from dying and we all get

00:06:52.820 it, then what exactly are we waiting for?

00:06:55.420 I remember Dr. Fauci a couple of weeks ago said something like, you know, when we have

00:06:58.720 the point of zero transmission, then we can go back to regular life.

00:07:02.100 Zero transmission does not exist with virtually any disease in human history, especially a

00:07:06.600 disease that is as virulent as this one.

00:07:08.520 We don't shut down all of American society for the flu.

00:07:10.900 And I know we're not supposed to compare COVID to the flu, but post vaccine, it's significantly

00:07:13.780 less deadly than the flu.

00:07:14.980 So what exactly are we are we waiting for at that point?

00:07:17.960 It's it's maddening and it's insane.

00:07:20.020 And by the way, it's super counterproductive for Fauci and the rest of the public health

00:07:23.680 administration to be saying things about vaccine doubtfulness when the chief goal here should

00:07:28.680 be to get as many people to take the vaccine as humanly possible.

00:07:31.300 Right now, we have one third of the military saying they don't want to take the vaccine

00:07:33.720 outside shares of the black and Hispanic communities saying they don't want to take

00:07:36.620 the vaccine.

00:07:37.380 And so you've got the public health people being like, yeah, well, you know, even after

00:07:39.980 you take the vaccine, maybe you'll still have to socially distance from grandma and never

00:07:43.340 go to a ballgame again.

00:07:44.560 And and by the way, wear a mask until the end of time.

00:07:46.700 This is like the dumbest possible strategy.

00:07:48.740 It's incredibly, incredibly stupid.

00:07:50.220 It's anti-scientific.

00:07:51.080 And at a certain point, you have to say to yourself, this is more about control than it

00:07:54.420 is about the science, which is something I've been pretty hesitant to say throughout.

00:07:57.060 But it seems like it's it's getting to be that way at this point.

00:07:59.500 No, but it's a good point.

00:08:00.500 I mean, people, some people are already scared to take the vaccine because they don't know

00:08:03.860 what they're getting themselves into.

00:08:04.900 They don't think the trials were long enough.

00:08:06.880 You know, they heard about some negative reactions in some small percentage of cases,

00:08:09.960 what have you.

00:08:11.180 And so now you take away the main incentives to get the vaccine, which is return to normal.

00:08:17.260 No, there won't be any return to normal.

00:08:19.020 He's like here on the Upper West Side of Manhattan.

00:08:21.860 I don't know if we have an especially high contingent of hysterical people.

00:08:26.620 New Yorkers tend to be tough, but there's like a group where I live tends to be women.

00:08:31.920 I don't know.

00:08:32.700 They're a little bit on the older side and they're very scoldy.

00:08:36.100 You know, like if they see you without that mask on, they will get in your face.

00:08:39.300 And they're terrified, Ben.

00:08:40.720 You can just tell that they've been terrified by a lifetime on this earth, by the media,

00:08:44.740 by their liberal circles, whatever it is.

00:08:47.700 But I feel like he's of them.

00:08:49.660 Dr. Fauci is of them.

00:08:50.900 He's basically hiding under the kitchen table with 40 masks on saying, never, don't take

00:08:55.540 it off.

00:08:56.160 There'll be no more movie theaters.

00:08:57.420 There'll be no more Broadway.

00:08:58.660 And he does it with a smile and he has a genteel manner.

00:09:01.960 But the rest of America doesn't feel like this.

00:09:04.400 I don't think we're in a mask interminable.

00:09:07.560 It's just fine by me phase as a people.

00:09:10.960 So, I mean, this week I called for Fauci to be fired.

00:09:12.960 And the reason I called for Fauci to be fired after a year of saying you shouldn't be fired,

00:09:15.540 by the way, like every time people would say on the right, Fauci, Trump should fire Fauci.

00:09:18.620 I was like, no, I don't really see the rationale.

00:09:20.480 But here's the thing.

00:09:21.180 Fauci has outlived his usefulness as a public servant.

00:09:23.920 He is putting out mixed messaging.

00:09:25.080 And he's pretty clearly a political tool of the Biden administration at this point when

00:09:28.300 he's out there recommending CDC standards that overtly have input from the teachers

00:09:32.540 unions when he's out there trying to defend Kamala Harris after Kamala Harris says

00:09:36.340 that teachers essentially need to be vaccinated in order to go back to the classrooms.

00:09:39.940 He's saying that teachers must be prioritized.

00:09:42.040 In what world must teachers be prioritized?

00:09:43.600 There is no evidence that I'm aware of, none, that the teachers are at outsized risk of getting

00:09:48.760 this from students.

00:09:49.580 In fact, I've yet to see a single story in the United States of a teacher confirmed

00:09:53.100 to have gotten COVID from a student who then died of the COVID.

00:09:55.540 I've not seen a single story of that in the United States.

00:09:58.780 All the stories about it that you see are teacher infected by other teacher at the school,

00:10:02.100 teacher infected a grocery store, teacher infected somewhere else and happened to be a teacher.

00:10:05.920 So then we pretend that it had something to do with the school.

00:10:08.780 The thing about Fauci is I don't think that he's actually scared of the virus.

00:10:12.200 I think that he's, you know, what you would expect him to be.

00:10:14.820 He's a bureaucratic ass covering guy.

00:10:17.080 He's somebody who works for the federal government.

00:10:20.180 The logic goes something like this.

00:10:21.620 If he says, listen, get the vaccines, then you can go out in public and enjoy your life.

00:10:25.700 And then people get the vaccines, they go out in public, they enjoy their life.

00:10:27.900 And then another variant comes around and clocks them.

00:10:29.880 Then Fauci is on the hook.

00:10:31.360 But if he says, if you get the vaccines, then you still shouldn't go out and enjoy your regular

00:10:34.520 life and then things get bad, then he can say, well, I told you guys that we should have been

00:10:37.940 cautious all the way through.

00:10:39.160 So you're you're you're sort of prisoner's dilemma here in terms of politics always tends

00:10:43.420 toward the worst possible solution and also the most impossible solution here, which is

00:10:47.440 you should get vaccinated and also continue doing all of these other things.

00:10:50.640 As I as I tweeted out, there's this presumption in the public health community that is obviously

00:10:54.740 untrue, that there are three different outcomes here.

00:10:57.980 One is you get vaccinated and go back to your regular life.

00:11:00.540 One is you don't get vaccinated and you don't go back to your regular life.

00:11:04.360 And the third is you don't get vaccinated or you do get vaccinated and you still don't

00:11:08.200 go back to your regular life.

00:11:09.200 So here's the reality.

00:11:10.240 Everybody's going back to regular life.

00:11:11.480 The only question is whether they're going to be vaccinated or not.

00:11:13.500 So why would you not encourage them to get vaccinated before going to regular life?

00:11:17.040 Yeah, no, that's exactly right.

00:11:18.360 And Fauci, he's also out there talking about you're talking about how he's been a mouthpiece

00:11:23.700 for the Biden administration, for the teachers union.

00:11:25.540 And and by the way, to your point, yes, so he's a bureaucrat.

00:11:29.620 But the good thing about when Trump was in office is, you know, you had a leader above

00:11:33.200 him who would take other considerations, you know, into under advisement.

00:11:37.800 Right.

00:11:37.960 It's not all about Fauci and his public health warnings.

00:11:40.700 There are different kinds of public health you have to take into account.

00:11:42.860 Right.

00:11:43.020 And so I felt like before we were looking at that, I'm not so sure now.

00:11:46.480 And the other thing I heard Fauci saying this week was he's touting how our first graders

00:11:52.080 may be able to get vaccinated by September.

00:11:55.140 The testing on young people is underway now.

00:11:57.160 And my first thought was, but we don't want that.

00:11:59.720 I I'm not.

00:12:00.480 I have a first grader.

00:12:01.520 I'm not getting him vaccinated.

00:12:02.800 I'm not getting my children vaccinated.

00:12:04.480 They don't need it.

00:12:05.560 It hasn't been sufficiently tested.

00:12:07.220 And even if there's some test between now and then over the next few months, I don't

00:12:10.300 think it's going to be satisfactory to me.

00:12:11.860 Now, get myself vaccinated tomorrow.

00:12:13.400 I'm not an anti-vaxxer and all my kids have been vaccinated on, you know, the MMR and all

00:12:17.640 that stuff.

00:12:18.580 But this one, it's not necessary.

00:12:20.420 And the risk benefit, you know, calculation is much different on this one, since it doesn't

00:12:24.660 affect them really at all, COVID.

00:12:27.360 And so now this is the latest push.

00:12:28.840 Like, don't worry, your first grader can get it by September.

00:12:31.920 You mark my words, Ben.

00:12:32.980 As soon as it's available and you don't get it, they're going to start to be rules that

00:12:37.300 you can't send your kid back to school.

00:12:39.200 I mean, this is madness.

00:12:40.280 So I checked the statistics this morning.

00:12:42.240 According to the CDC, as of February 17th, the total number of kids aged 14 and under who

00:12:47.460 have died of COVID is 140 in this nation, 140, according to the CDC stats.

00:12:52.620 That says on February 17th, according to the same CDC stats, some 2.4 million kids under

00:12:57.440 the age of 17 have actually gotten COVID.

00:13:00.380 And we know that that multiple is significantly higher because there are a ton, a ton of kids

00:13:04.440 who have had asymptomatic transmission of this thing because kids very often manifest

00:13:09.260 asymptomatically, probably more often than the rest of the general population.

00:13:12.360 So what you're actually talking about is not 2.4 million kids who have gotten this.

00:13:16.620 You're probably talking 10 times that number.

00:13:18.260 You're probably talking at least 20 million kids who have gotten this so far.

00:13:21.260 And of that, you have 140 children, 140 who have died of this.

00:13:25.240 Now, every one of those is a tragedy.

00:13:26.360 But if we're going to pretend that that is a broad national public health crisis on the

00:13:31.320 scale that requires my first grader to get a vaccine, the answer is no.

00:13:36.700 I mean, this is supposed to protect the elderly.

00:13:39.020 I mean, let's face what this is.

00:13:40.360 If you're under the age of 20, the flu is more deadly for you than this thing is.

00:13:43.480 If you are between the ages of 20 and 65, it is more deadly than the flu, but by a

00:13:47.440 multiple of maybe three or four.

00:13:49.060 If you're over the age of 65, it is very deadly.

00:13:51.180 And that means that you should be getting vaccinated if you are over the age of 20, because why the

00:13:55.160 hell wouldn't you?

00:13:55.600 But why would I vaccinate?

00:13:56.520 Like this notion, and you heard it from the teachers unions, that every kid has to be

00:14:00.340 vaccinated before they go back to school.

00:14:02.180 Are you nuts?

00:14:03.180 This is crazy.

00:14:03.880 What are you even talking about?

00:14:05.020 And the fact that the Biden administration, which is supposed to be the people with the plan, remember

00:14:08.340 it was Trump and his very unserious people who are in charge.

00:14:11.200 And when they came in, there was no plan, even though Joe Biden, by the way, I noticed

00:14:14.080 was a beneficiary of the plan that got him the vaccine on January 11th.

00:14:17.340 I noticed that nine days before he was inaugurated, he was vaccinated.

00:14:20.560 But apparently the plan didn't exist to the point where there were a million shots that

00:14:25.000 happened the day that he was inaugurated.

00:14:26.420 And now the constantly moving goalposts, the bizarre attempts to downplay the efficacy of

00:14:33.280 the vaccine, the ridiculous attempts to suggest that there are deadlines that are hard to

00:14:38.500 meet that are actually extraordinarily easy to meet.

00:14:40.840 I mean, you're seeing from the Biden administration now the new line is, well, I mean, it'll just

00:14:44.560 be an amazing accomplishment if we get 300 million people vaccinated by August.

00:14:48.000 That won't be an amazing accomplishment.

00:14:49.500 The hell are you talking about right now?

00:14:50.960 We already have tens of millions of people who have already been vaccinated.

00:14:53.360 We have more tens of millions of people who have already had it, which means they probably

00:14:56.500 don't need to be vaccinated at all in the first place.

00:14:59.080 And even if we continue at current pace, we're doing about 2 million shots a day.

00:15:02.240 That brings you to, wait for it, about 300 million vaccinations by August.

00:15:05.880 So what in the world are you talking, like none of this makes any sense.

00:15:08.460 It is all just an attempt to spin a narrative when the reality is that the vaccination process,

00:15:13.280 the development of the vaccines, all of this stuff was already marching underway before

00:15:17.220 Biden got at the head of line.

00:15:19.540 And now Biden is using the lockdown as a sort of political rationale for everything else

00:15:24.020 he wants to do.

00:15:24.620 Remember, this is all connected with $1.9 trillion stimulus package.

00:15:27.860 They're talking about another stimulus package after that.

00:15:30.340 And in order for you to generate this kind of outsized spending, this outsized agenda,

00:15:34.680 you have to define everything as an outsized crisis.

00:15:36.900 This is not at this point an outsized crisis.

00:15:39.360 Over the course of the past year, it has been.

00:15:40.900 We are not now at a point where COVID is an outsized national crisis that requires trillions

00:15:44.820 of dollars in additional spending.

00:15:45.920 We've already put $7 trillion out the front door.

00:15:47.960 He wants another $2 trillion on top of that.

00:15:50.020 That's aside from the budget.

00:15:51.340 We're going to have a GDP that is well below what we are actually spending this year, which

00:15:55.760 is insanity.

00:15:56.820 I mean, like our GDP to debt ratio is actually negative this year.

00:16:01.720 Like what in the world is he talking about?

00:16:04.360 But we know what he's talking about.

00:16:05.660 And this is why I say I was very much on board with the we can have bipartisan measures of science

00:16:11.480 and public health.

00:16:12.420 And that went out the window so fast with this crew that now I was willing to hold off.

00:16:16.840 I'm not willing to hold off anymore.

00:16:18.100 Fauci should be fired.

00:16:19.180 This administration is doing a terrible job of rolling out the vaccine, not just in terms

00:16:23.120 of the practicalities, but really more in terms of the public the public health rhetoric

00:16:27.560 like that.

00:16:28.100 That's way worse to me than the practicality of rolling out the vaccine.

00:16:31.080 Yeah.

00:16:31.100 And he's finally coming under scrutiny, more scrutiny now because he's got this outrageous

00:16:35.660 messaging.

00:16:36.300 And when you get to vaccinate mandatory vaccinations, which is definitely where they're going to

00:16:40.080 go for first graders, you're going to see a parental revolt for sure.

00:16:44.240 And and as we talked about the teachers unions just in passing there that now, you know, they're

00:16:48.680 coming under pressure because they're starting to feel some of the heat because Randy Weingarten,

00:16:52.500 who is the head of the second largest teachers union in the country, was on Meet the Press over

00:16:56.500 the weekend and she's she was trying to sound like she was offering a different message.

00:17:03.100 It was basically, look, if the NFL could figure this out, we can figure this out.

00:17:06.680 And she said, and I quote, I want to debunk this myth that teachers unions don't want to

00:17:11.280 reopen schools.

00:17:11.940 We do.

00:17:12.460 We want to it's and it's bull.

00:17:14.780 And then, of course, she goes on to say, but but we just have to make sure it's safe.

00:17:17.520 But then when you look at like the criteria that the teachers unions are setting out, including

00:17:21.660 her, for what equals safety, it's an impossible goal.

00:17:26.740 You can't meet it.

00:17:27.320 And there was a there was a report just this weekend that your old state, California, that

00:17:32.600 the labor organizations out there left the governor, you know, Democrat, Gavin Newsom,

00:17:36.020 so frustrated that he said, and I quote, we might as well just pack it up and just be

00:17:39.680 honest with folks that we're not going to open for in-person instruction this school

00:17:42.960 year.

00:17:43.180 He even he's gotten to the point where he can't handle these unions.

00:17:47.540 Yeah, I mean, the teachers unions are, you know, ruling the roost in all of these cities.

00:17:52.340 And eventually you end up like Mayor Lori Lightfoot, who is really count howling to

00:17:55.840 them, eventually saying you guys are saying stuff that is completely disconnected from

00:17:58.840 reality while you're doing your interpretive dance about how schools need to be safe.

00:18:03.080 Safety in this context is sort of like the exception for the health of the mother in the abortion

00:18:07.820 context.

00:18:08.220 It's just a term that is supposed to encompass literally all the things, right?

00:18:11.720 This is the reason why there are so many pro-lifers who object to the health of the mother provisions

00:18:14.700 because that encompasses like, oh, well, you know, she might have a slightly additional

00:18:17.880 risk of X, Y, or Z.

00:18:19.060 The same thing is true when it comes to safety.

00:18:20.700 When they say we want to reopen schools safely, safely, as Joe Biden continues to say, can

00:18:25.180 you define safely?

00:18:26.080 Because my kids are in Florida.

00:18:28.240 My kids have been in school since they got here.

00:18:30.020 We moved in October.

00:18:30.880 They've been here every single day this year.

00:18:32.600 They've been in school.

00:18:33.460 They're wearing masks.

00:18:34.380 Even though my son is four years old and my daughter is seven, they're wearing masks.

00:18:36.840 They got the plexiglass shields on their desk.

00:18:39.500 They are socially distanced, but not, you know, 10 feet apart.

00:18:43.600 You know, they're fine.

00:18:44.980 By the way, they would be fine if they did none of that stuff, in my opinion.

00:18:47.860 But they're still doing that stuff.

00:18:49.640 You're telling me that these teachers unions are saying that that's not enough.

00:18:52.320 We got to get all the teachers vaccinated and all the students vaccinated and we got

00:18:55.220 to put them in a bubble like John Travolta and The Boy in the Plastic Bubble.

00:18:58.120 Oh, my God.

00:18:58.480 I loved that show.

00:18:59.340 I love that movie.

00:19:00.340 I didn't think you were old enough to have seen that.

00:19:02.240 How have you seen The Boy in the Plastic Bubble?

00:19:03.720 That is from my childhood.

00:19:04.700 I've got like 15 years on you.

00:19:08.900 Yeah, you know, classic oldies.

00:19:10.720 But the reality is that, like, what are they even talking about?

00:19:14.060 And we know what they're talking about, which is we want money not to teach, which is always

00:19:17.220 the agenda of these teachers unions.

00:19:18.460 We want more money, more taxpayer money not to teach.

00:19:21.060 We want better pensions not to teach.

00:19:23.340 And if it has never been clearer to American public school parents that they are getting

00:19:27.220 jacked by the system than it is right now, I mean, it is amazing to me.

00:19:31.240 The right, by the way, should be doing such heavy lifting right now to get kids into private

00:19:34.580 school.

00:19:35.260 Like, this is a perfect opportunity to get kids into homeschool and private school and

00:19:38.300 take them out of the public school system entirely because the public school systems

00:19:40.960 have been broken for decades.

00:19:42.640 And frankly, if the left is going to see COVID as an opportunity, every crisis being an opportunity,

00:19:47.040 the right should see the way the public schools are being treated right now.

00:19:49.680 And they should use that as an opportunity to get these kids out of these failing schools

00:19:52.200 anyway.

00:19:53.460 Can I tell you a nice story?

00:19:54.560 Here's a good news story for you.

00:19:56.200 We, too, have our kids in school and they've been doing a great job.

00:19:59.020 These teachers at our son's school, they've had many cases of COVID.

00:20:03.220 They isolate the kids.

00:20:04.460 The kids have to go out and quarantine, as do the kids who are immediately around them.

00:20:08.500 But the school goes on.

00:20:09.580 The school has not closed because of COVID one time this year.

00:20:12.540 But here's the other good news story, because I know you and I both constantly call out these

00:20:17.980 activist teachers who are really more interested in developing little progressives than

00:20:21.860 little smart people.

00:20:22.880 And my son, Yates, who's in fifth grade, was just telling me last night, my husband and

00:20:29.760 I, my husband, Doug, and me, that they were talking about politics and they were just talking

00:20:35.180 about the political system and electoral politics and so on.

00:20:38.220 And his teacher said, I don't want to get political.

00:20:41.700 I'm not going to take a political side with you guys because my politics may not be what

00:20:45.840 your politics are.

00:20:47.040 And, you know, your parents should really be your main influencers on your politics and

00:20:51.460 just stuck to procedure.

00:20:53.320 I love this guy, Ben.

00:20:55.040 I love him.

00:20:56.080 And by the way, he's 65 and he's been in there teaching a bunch of fifth graders all

00:21:01.080 year long.

00:21:01.920 They wear the masks.

00:21:02.700 They socially distance.

00:21:03.780 But this is a guy who's in the high risk group.

00:21:05.820 He does it anyway.

00:21:07.200 Why?

00:21:07.400 We need more teachers like him.

00:21:09.380 Well, that's for sure.

00:21:10.260 I mean, I keep hearing over and over that there are tons of teachers who want to teach,

00:21:13.340 and I'm sure there are, which is why we should break the teachers unions.

00:21:16.300 And the teachers unions should not be the governing force here.

00:21:18.500 Public sector unions are a disaster area.

00:21:20.280 Teachers unions are a particularly strong example of a disaster area.

00:21:23.700 The most corrupt bargain in American politics, and it is absolute overt corruption that is

00:21:27.920 purely in the public view, is the sort of public corruption that happens when public school,

00:21:33.260 public unions, public teachers unions, when all of these unions elect the people they then

00:21:38.120 negotiate with and then take their member money and leverage taxpayer dollars out of the

00:21:43.420 people they're negotiating with to get those people elected again.

00:21:45.720 It's the most corrupt open, like the same people who are talking about campaign finance

00:21:49.640 reform and corporate power and all this kind of stuff, they're perfectly fine with big labor

00:21:53.080 taking money from their members, using that money to get people elected to office and

00:21:57.000 then bargaining with the people they elected to spend taxpayer money on them.

00:22:00.140 It's the most obviously corrupt thing in American politics, and they spend hundreds of millions

00:22:03.900 of dollars on this stuff every single year.

00:22:05.780 Big labor spends tons of money on this stuff, and they are running the show at the Biden

00:22:09.040 administration.

00:22:09.500 Mm-hmm.

00:22:10.840 We haven't heard that much from the Trumps since Senior left office, but Junior, Don Trump

00:22:18.300 Jr., released a video within the past day.

00:22:22.940 He does this video in front of a wall of guns, and so you've got people freaking out over it,

00:22:29.180 saying it was a veiled threat and so on, but he's talking about the teachers unions.

00:22:32.980 We have a little clip.

00:22:33.920 Listen.

00:22:34.060 One of the things I want to talk about that I've been reading a lot about lately is sort

00:22:38.260 of the stuff as it relates to the teachers union.

00:22:41.720 You've seen what they've done over the last couple of months, the way they've basically

00:22:45.200 held up progress, prevented schools from opening.

00:22:50.420 The teachers union and those representing them have definitely failed our children in

00:22:55.120 terms of education and everything else.

00:22:58.140 I mean, the teachers union has certainly failed the science they're supposed to be teaching

00:23:02.700 us because, again, it's all political.

00:23:05.920 It was a rant.

00:23:07.100 It was a threat.

00:23:08.920 Like, no one's listening to what he says.

00:23:12.120 It's all about the fact that he had guns behind him, and he took aim at a treasured group,

00:23:16.580 and therefore it has to be dismissed as a rant, but he's raising a good point.

00:23:20.800 Yeah, I mean, just on the content of it, I mean, forget the optics of it for a second.

00:23:24.340 Just on the content, can somebody rebut it?

00:23:26.580 I mean, like, the reality is that the teachers unions are ruling the roost.

00:23:29.620 The CDC director, Rochelle Walensky, she came out and she said, you know, teachers don't

00:23:33.960 actually have to be vaccinated to go back to school.

00:23:35.860 And then the Biden administration came out and they said, oh, she was speaking in her

00:23:39.060 personal capacity.

00:23:40.080 No, she was not.

00:23:41.120 She was sitting in front of a step and repeat from the CDC on a CDC phone call when she said

00:23:46.620 that.

00:23:46.860 They said it was in her personal capacity.

00:23:48.900 Then they released the CDC guidelines, which, as Jake Tapper at CNN noted, would have meant

00:23:53.160 that 99.9% of all school children in the United States ought to be in either hybrid or at-home

00:23:57.980 models of learning, when right now only about 50% of kids are in hybrid or at-home models

00:24:02.500 of learning.

00:24:03.320 And they did that.

00:24:04.140 And Walensky acknowledged that they had done so with the input of the teachers unions.

00:24:07.480 What the hell are the teachers unions doing setting CDC standards?

00:24:11.240 What in the world do the teachers unions know about science?

00:24:13.400 They're a political group.

00:24:14.200 That's like saying that you're going to have the NRA set the reopening standards for gun

00:24:19.960 shows.

00:24:20.280 What are you talking about right now?

00:24:21.700 This is an invested group.

00:24:22.820 You can't do that.

00:24:23.780 It's the CDC.

00:24:24.960 And then you won't follow the science.

00:24:26.800 This is one of my chief...

00:24:28.400 I mean, I've been going nuts over this really since probably April or May of last year.

00:24:32.860 The perversion of science in favor of what I call TUScience, trademark the science, meaning

00:24:38.040 that you have to stay in your home forever until the end of time.

00:24:41.240 But if you're out there protesting and spitting on each other for George Floyd in the millions,

00:24:45.920 then that's totally fine.

00:24:46.840 And not only fine, public health experts tell you that racism is a public health crisis too.

00:24:50.180 You actually need to do it.

00:24:51.480 That if you're out at a church and you're praying and shouting, then that's super bad.

00:24:54.600 But if you're out there in the middle of the street dancing and singing for George Floyd,

00:24:58.540 then that's not only good.

00:24:59.500 That is recommended by public health experts.

00:25:01.580 When you have people treating Andrew Cuomo like you knew what the hell he was doing, writing

00:25:04.660 books on leadership while overtly lying like this, I'm amazed to see the media treating

00:25:09.520 this Andrew Cuomo nursing home scandal as something new.

00:25:12.820 It just demonstrates how dishonest they are.

00:25:14.420 You knew about this in May.

00:25:15.460 I knew about this in May.

00:25:16.480 Everybody on the right knew about this in May.

00:25:18.100 We all knew about this last year.

00:25:19.820 But weirdly, it only gets reported in the aftermath of the election.

00:25:23.700 And so I'm supposed to believe that our scientific institutions are purely basing their advice

00:25:29.340 on the science.

00:25:30.720 It has nothing to do with the science.

00:25:31.860 It has to do with politics.

00:25:33.100 Again, I'm perfectly willing to hear a scientific argument for anything.

00:25:35.560 I just have not heard a whole ton, a whole bleep ton of science here coming from our supposed

00:25:40.440 scientific institutions.

00:25:41.460 I'm hearing a lot of propaganda coming from Dr. Fauci about defending Kamala Harris and

00:25:45.780 teachers unions.

00:25:46.680 It's the same when it comes to the whole transgender issue.

00:25:49.060 Like they don't care about science at all.

00:25:50.340 They don't.

00:25:50.700 Science says there are only two genders, male and females.

00:25:52.820 That's what science says.

00:25:54.100 And science says that there are biological differences between girls and boys, especially

00:25:57.700 that give boys advantages during sports in sports, even if they go on hormone therapy,

00:26:01.380 even for a year.

00:26:02.200 We're not supposed to pay attention to that because trans rights are human rights.

00:26:05.900 That's what Jen Psaki said.

00:26:07.240 But let me get to you.

00:26:08.040 Let me let me follow up on Cuomo because, boy, the news is getting worse for him.

00:26:13.600 And I have to say, I'm loving it because he deserves it.

00:26:15.520 He lied.

00:26:16.360 His own party's turning on him.

00:26:18.680 They're coming up.

00:26:19.400 The Democrats are coming out to say this is what they're saying behind the scenes, that

00:26:22.780 they basically obstructed justice.

00:26:25.640 That when the when the Trump DOJ was asking them for data on exactly how many people died in

00:26:30.480 the New York nursing homes, nursing homes, because you seem to have tried hard to keep

00:26:34.020 your numbers down.

00:26:34.720 And yet we're hearing different reports that they stonewalled them, that they did not give

00:26:38.920 them information.

00:26:40.220 And that would be obstruction.

00:26:41.860 There's a there's a really good opinion piece in The Wall Street Journal today saying that's

00:26:45.820 what we call obstruction of justice.

00:26:47.520 And Cuomo ought to be really concerned about this FBI investigation, because if what his own

00:26:52.440 Democrats in New York state are saying is true, he committed a crime and this guy ought

00:26:57.160 to be going to jail.

00:26:58.120 But still, the media just barely, just barely been.

00:27:01.420 I mean, I'll get to in a second, but they spent far more time talking about Ted Cruz than

00:27:06.100 they did on Andrew Cuomo possibly being a felon.

00:27:09.760 Oh, yeah.

00:27:10.220 No question.

00:27:11.260 No question.

00:27:12.240 The the amount of ink spilled over Ted Cruz going to Cancun, which, again, terrible optics,

00:27:18.520 bad political decision like politics 101.

00:27:20.460 Don't go do something fun.

00:27:22.040 Well, people are suffering.

00:27:22.980 It just looks bad.

00:27:23.720 Send Heidi and the kids off.

00:27:24.660 But to equate that with Andrew Cuomo literally following a policy that killed people and

00:27:30.840 then covering that up for months and months and then threatening fellow Democrats in order

00:27:33.880 to cover it up for months and months.

00:27:35.100 That's insane.

00:27:35.980 I'm sorry.

00:27:36.260 That's totally crazy.

00:27:37.020 And if you're talking about hypocrisy, it's not active hypocrisy to go to Cancun while

00:27:40.740 things are bad in Texas.

00:27:42.040 Hypocrisy would be if Ted Cruz is like, you all should stay in Texas and freeze while I

00:27:45.460 go to Cancun.

00:27:46.280 Right.

00:27:46.520 But that's exactly what you saw from Democrats during COVID.

00:27:48.600 You saw Gavin Newsom being like, you can't open your restaurant, but I'm going to go eat

00:27:51.100 at the French laundry.

00:27:51.760 You saw Lori Lightfoot saying, you can't go get your hair done, but I'm going to go get

00:27:54.640 my hair done because I'm special and I consider that an essential service.

00:27:57.860 You see Andrew Cuomo saying that he is the greatest governor of all time while simultaneously

00:28:02.020 following policy that kills people.

00:28:03.460 This is the stuff that's actual hypocrisy.

00:28:05.280 The media devoted every spare minute to Ted Cruz getting on that plane, which, again, bad

00:28:09.660 political move.

00:28:10.480 Is it immoral?

00:28:11.580 Is it hypocritical?

00:28:12.980 Not really.

00:28:13.840 It's just a bad political move.

00:28:15.580 But but again, none of this matters.

00:28:17.320 All that matters is that Republicans are the bad guys.

00:28:18.920 The one that's the most obvious here when it comes to, you know, the imbalance of coverage

00:28:22.560 is obviously my governor, Ron DeSantis, who I will say is the best governor in the country.

00:28:26.240 DeSantis is fan fricking tastic.

00:28:28.320 He's kept this state open.

00:28:29.600 This state is the second oldest state in the country after Maine.

00:28:31.860 Maine has eight people in it, which means that effectively speaking, Florida is the oldest

00:28:34.920 state in the country.

00:28:35.580 It certainly has the most seniors by percentage.

00:28:37.560 It's 25 percent of the entire state of Florida is over the age of 65.

00:28:40.700 It ranks somewhere like 27th or 28th in terms of death per million.

00:28:43.820 Andrew Cuomo ranks two.

00:28:45.360 OK, his neighbor, Phil Murphy, ranks one.

00:28:47.180 OK, and yet Andrew Cuomo is somehow amazing at this.

00:28:50.040 And Ron DeSantis is killing everybody.

00:28:51.720 Over the weekend, NBC News came out with a story suggesting that Ron DeSantis was evil

00:28:55.560 because his vaccination program had prioritized seniors and Holocaust survivors.

00:29:00.740 And the idea was that he was trying to vaccinate seniors and Holocaust survivors because those

00:29:04.540 are the people who are most likely to vote for him.

00:29:06.620 How about he's prioritizing those people because those are the people most likely to die of

00:29:09.800 COVID?

00:29:10.500 By the way, if you use that same logic, presumably Andrew Cuomo is attempting to murder all the seniors

00:29:13.860 because they're the people least likely to vote for him.

00:29:15.900 Hmm.

00:29:17.180 That's exactly right.

00:29:18.480 And the Ted Cruz thing.

00:29:20.180 I mean, let's talk about that for a second, because I had a couple of thoughts on that.

00:29:22.960 First of all, Ted Cruz needs to cut that hair.

00:29:25.620 I just want to start with that.

00:29:27.180 I was I was in favor of the beard and I made it public, but I am not in favor of the mullet.

00:29:31.940 He's gone too far.

00:29:33.560 And I realize it's tough to get a haircut sometimes, but not in Texas.

00:29:36.340 He can get a haircut.

00:29:37.680 Even I could cut that hair.

00:29:38.820 I've cut Doug's hair before I could do that one.

00:29:40.660 I'll do it for you.

00:29:41.340 It's an offer right here.

00:29:42.340 Senator Cruz, come on.

00:29:43.120 Come on.

00:29:43.380 He's a friend.

00:29:44.780 So, yeah, it wasn't a smart idea.

00:29:46.800 And then but I thought you had a really good point about it's never a good look saying

00:29:51.800 that you you did something controversial because your kids wanted it.

00:29:55.100 But you were like the same people criticizing him for listening to his children are the ones

00:30:00.460 who say a three year old should be able to decide to choose their gender.

00:30:04.800 Right.

00:30:05.600 Exactly.

00:30:06.060 Listen to your kids on everything except when they want to go on vacation.

00:30:09.220 It's it is it is truly an amazing thing.

00:30:12.260 And by the way, you know how that whole thing went down.

00:30:14.340 Right.

00:30:14.440 It's very obvious how that whole thing went down.

00:30:15.900 It was probably Ted was like, you know what?

00:30:17.620 Really, I should stay here.

00:30:18.760 And Heidi and the kids were like, we're freezing our butts off.

00:30:20.820 Let's just get out of here.

00:30:22.340 And at a certain point, like as a dad, I could see saying to my wife in case, all right,

00:30:25.700 fine, let's just go.

00:30:27.020 Yeah.

00:30:27.240 And then you get to the airport.

00:30:28.060 You're like, oh, this is a bad idea.

00:30:29.360 Right.

00:30:29.560 I mean, like that.

00:30:30.020 That's probably how it went down.

00:30:30.900 It wasn't like that was like, ah, I'm leaving and going to Cancun.

00:30:33.880 Well, you suckers out here, freeze.

00:30:35.660 By the way, I'll tell you who's the real jerk in the whole story.

00:30:37.960 All the people who are texting in the neighborhood.

00:30:39.400 Okay, so I'm not saying Ted's decision is good, but all the people in the neighborhood

00:30:43.160 texting with Ted's wife, Heidi, who decide to leak that to the New York Times, those people

00:30:48.380 can just F off.

00:30:49.960 Like if my wife were texting with people about like evening plans or something, and they

00:30:53.160 decided to leak that to the New York Times, how gross is that?

00:30:56.040 I mean, the behavior surrounding what Ted did, I think is frankly, just on a personal behavior

00:31:01.520 decency level, significantly worse than what Ted did.

00:31:03.820 You see the story from the Huffington Post today about how the flight attendants were leaking

00:31:08.360 information about Ted and his family to the press and the and the and the Huffington Post.

00:31:13.300 So United Airlines launched an investigation and the head of the flight attendants union

00:31:17.220 tweeted out, we are all the leakers.

00:31:19.580 Ted Cruz has lied too many times to be protected this way.

00:31:22.700 That's nuts.

00:31:24.080 This is nuts.

00:31:25.080 You're saying you're having overt you're having unions, businesses say your private information

00:31:29.480 ought not remain private information because we don't like you politically.

00:31:31.840 And Ted's the one who's the worst in this whole thing.

00:31:34.520 Again, none of that's a defense of Ted going to Cancun, which is a bad political move

00:31:37.420 for the optics.

00:31:38.360 I got to say, I hate optical games.

00:31:39.820 I think it's always dumb when politicians jet like during Hurricane Sandy, when Obama

00:31:43.480 went into Jersey and then stood there at like the FEMA desks.

00:31:46.840 I understand it's all optics and it's not his fault.

00:31:48.720 Those are the rules of the game.

00:31:49.660 But I've always thought that these rules are incredibly stupid, like that politicians are

00:31:52.880 supposed to go stand there as though they can do anything like like they're Neptune

00:31:56.080 king of the waters and they're going to stop the weather or something like when Trump

00:31:59.660 went to when Trump went to Puerto Rico and was was flinging paper towels at people.

00:32:04.060 You remember the media didn't like that either.

00:32:05.220 I mean, he was very upset at him for doing all of that.

00:32:08.320 So it's like the rules are really dumb.

00:32:10.860 I tend to think of politicians like plumbers.

00:32:12.660 If they can't do anything, why are they there?

00:32:14.420 Yeah.

00:32:14.800 Well, I mean, now you've got Ted Cruz out there handing out waters and getting photo

00:32:17.600 ops and we all know what that's about, too.

00:32:19.160 It's like, oh, Ted.

00:32:20.240 I mean, he's a politician.

00:32:21.460 They have to do it.

00:32:22.560 Part of it makes you respect the Melania.

00:32:24.380 I really don't care.

00:32:25.200 Do you, Jacket?

00:32:26.160 Because that was just like a big middle finger to everybody.

00:32:27.920 Like, I'm not here for you.

00:32:29.560 I actually don't care what you think of me.

00:32:31.980 But the Ted Cruz thing, I totally agree with you that the neighborhood women who are on

00:32:35.660 the group text with Heidi, who is supposedly a friend of theirs, can go pounce it.

00:32:40.260 Like, I don't want to hear from those women again.

00:32:42.080 I didn't know about the flight attendants.

00:32:43.360 That's horrible.

00:32:44.320 But I did see April Ryan tweeting out that not only did Ted Cruz abandon the people of

00:32:50.860 Texas for a vacation in Cancun, but he also abandoned his dog.

00:32:56.540 She's the White House correspondent and she's a White House correspondent and she's the political

00:33:01.500 analyst for CNN, actually.

00:33:02.820 So anyway, so she's tweeting this out.

00:33:04.780 We know it's not true.

00:33:05.980 The sad little pictures of the dog looking out the front door.

00:33:09.820 Meanwhile, he had a dog sitter.

00:33:11.440 But we're supposed to.

00:33:12.540 Like, it's not enough that he went to Cancun for four days or was supposed to.

00:33:16.040 Right.

00:33:16.160 It wasn't like he was abandoning Texas forever.

00:33:18.040 He had a return ticket for a few days later, which he then, you know, upped.

00:33:22.080 So he returned within 24 hours.

00:33:23.380 But now he's got to be basically a dog endangerer.

00:33:26.000 Right.

00:33:26.420 He's like, they just they always overreach.

00:33:29.320 I saw an article yesterday talking about about Cruz going to Cancun.

00:33:32.660 And it was something like he was in Cancun while people were freezing.

00:33:35.580 And this is like the argument that your mom used to use on you when you were like eight

00:33:39.220 and you weren't eating your peas.

00:33:40.620 Well, people in China are starving.

00:33:42.300 Like, right.

00:33:42.700 But the peas don't go to China.

00:33:43.760 Like, if I don't eat them today, they're not going to China.

00:33:45.460 Like the argument that that if Ted Cruz were in Texas, those people wouldn't have froze

00:33:49.140 is a less than compelling.

00:33:51.080 Like that's a tragedy and it's horrific.

00:33:53.120 But I don't know what Ted Cruz going to Cancun has anything to do with that.

00:33:55.680 Again, for the one millionth time, bad optics, bad political move.

00:33:58.580 We all know the rules of the game.

00:33:59.560 But the idea that it's like he did something deeply, horribly immoral by not by not standing

00:34:04.080 there in the freezing cold and handing out water bottles.

00:34:07.180 Like, I'm sorry.

00:34:08.380 I just I don't buy any of this from any of these people.

00:34:10.420 I don't buy it from the media.

00:34:11.260 I don't buy it from his fellow politicians, all of whom are doing this.

00:34:14.620 If they're there handing out water bottles, I don't think they're doing it.

00:34:17.960 Call me cynical.

00:34:18.800 I don't think that it's purely for altruistic reasons.

00:34:20.920 I think they're probably all doing it for politics because those are the rules of the

00:34:23.320 game.

00:34:24.220 And then, of course, the paparazzi being what they are, pour salt in the wounds by going

00:34:28.520 down to Cancun and getting bikini shots of Heidi Cruz, who, by the way, at 48 years

00:34:32.640 old, looks pretty damn good.

00:34:33.800 Mother of two girls.

00:34:34.960 What is that?

00:34:35.760 I mean, by the way, like, is Heidi and the kids supposed to be there?

00:34:37.780 Those damn kids.

00:34:38.400 Why aren't they out there handing out water bottles?

00:34:39.880 These little kids.

00:34:40.700 He should get his daughters out there, you know, scrubbing down the pipelines.

00:34:43.480 What what what what is Heidi or the kids have to do with it?

00:34:46.000 Like what Ted should have done is put them on the plane and stayed, obviously.

00:34:48.740 But this notion that, like, once Ted's gone, the story's gone.

00:34:51.840 Like, what are you taking pictures of his wife and his kids for?

00:34:54.260 Like, they're supposed to get out there and, you know, those kids need to work for a living.

00:34:57.800 It's about time, you know, get in the family business.

00:35:00.040 No, they were trying to embarrass her.

00:35:01.580 They don't like her because she's Ted Cruz's wife and they're Republicans and they don't

00:35:04.940 like any Republicans.

00:35:05.720 And so it's just an opportunity.

00:35:06.880 But I I will say I don't think they succeeded in embarrassing.

00:35:09.740 I have been the victim of unexpected bathing suit pictures, Ben.

00:35:14.020 And let me tell you, I've learned a thing or two.

00:35:16.540 If you try to run from the paparazzi on the beach as they try to get you, you do not wind

00:35:21.300 up looking good in the photos.

00:35:23.040 But if you just suck it in and smile and let him have his photo, it works out much better.

00:35:28.660 So I'm just, you know, for the people out there, if this ever happens to you, I heard

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00:35:34.520 And for you, too, Ben, for you, too.

00:35:36.280 This could happen to you, Ben Shapiro.

00:35:38.300 Well, I don't have to worry about it.

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00:35:44.380 More with Ben Shapiro in just one second.

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00:38:02.640 Let's talk about Rush Limbaugh.

00:38:04.200 You're in Florida now.

00:38:05.220 That's where Rush Limbaugh lived, and he died last week.

00:38:09.260 It wasn't shocking, right?

00:38:11.240 We knew he had lung cancer.

00:38:12.540 We knew he was 70.

00:38:13.460 He was really battling.

00:38:15.040 But still, it just felt like a before and after, you know?

00:38:17.960 And you actually wrote that, I think, in your piece on him in the New York Times.

00:38:21.700 It was like before Rush, before his life as a national figure, I guess is what you meant.

00:38:27.800 But you wrote a piece, and three other people wrote pieces, some of which were highly

00:38:32.960 critical.

00:38:33.740 Yours was not.

00:38:35.680 That, of course, caused controversy in and of itself.

00:38:38.520 I thought your piece hit it spot on, by the way.

00:38:41.000 And I said nice things about Rush the other day on my show.

00:38:43.200 And I realize he said controversial stuff in his life.

00:38:45.520 But he was in talk radio.

00:38:47.320 Like, you don't color between the lines.

00:38:49.040 You don't stay between the rails.

00:38:50.260 And also, Rush was very funny.

00:38:52.300 And his brand of humor may have been offensive to some.

00:38:54.780 But a lot of the stuff that they pulled back in the pieces about him posthumously were totally

00:39:00.600 taken out of context.

00:39:01.600 You know, he was trying to make people laugh, and he was a little irreverent.

00:39:04.860 Anyway, OK.

00:39:05.600 So this is some of the pushback to you.

00:39:08.580 Some guy named Dan Frumkin of PressWatchers.org.

00:39:13.360 Dan has probably never actually been a member of the press in his life.

00:39:17.100 But in any event, I don't know his story.

00:39:18.380 But Dan writes, Ben Shapiro is guilty of a deceptive whitewash.

00:39:24.580 And then he says, post Jim Bennett, that's a guy who got fired from the Times for having

00:39:27.860 the nerve to allow the Tom Cotton op-ed about putting troops in the streets during the riots

00:39:32.200 this summer.

00:39:33.000 Post Jim Bennett, open lines of communications were supposed to be flagging offensive, valueless,

00:39:39.420 performative trolling going forward.

00:39:41.840 Has nothing changed at the New York Times?

00:39:44.140 So he doesn't like the fact that you had nice things to say about Rush Limbaugh.

00:39:48.440 And he and some other guy, Mehdi Hassan, who's at NBC, wanted you to be spending your piece

00:39:52.860 and I quote, wrestling with his his record of bigotry and misogyny.

00:39:59.000 And you didn't grapple with it at all.

00:40:02.140 Yeah, I mean, and by the way, I will say the editors of the New York Times wanted me to do

00:40:05.840 some of that stuff, too.

00:40:06.540 And I just I'm not going to do that.

00:40:07.940 Number one, I view the New York Times as opposition press, but but number two, the the picture

00:40:13.300 that I have of Rush and the and the experiences that I had as a young person growing up listening

00:40:18.200 to Rush, that is not what you got from listening to Rush on a daily basis in the same way that

00:40:21.800 if you listen to you on a daily basis or me on a daily basis or Sean or Laura or Tucker

00:40:25.660 or anybody on the right on a daily basis, what you're not going to come away with is

00:40:28.960 these people are vile bigots who hate people.

00:40:30.660 What you're going to come away with is these people make jokes.

00:40:32.800 They sometimes make mistakes.

00:40:33.780 They're speaking for hours a day live on camera, and that's just the way life works.

00:40:37.580 But what the left was determined to do is essentially turn Rush's life into a compendium

00:40:41.700 of media matters hits.

00:40:43.220 And we know that that's what they're going to do to you or to me or to anybody else who's

00:40:46.620 prominent on the right.

00:40:47.360 We all know this, right?

00:40:48.140 I thought that the main point of my piece was the point that came about two thirds of

00:40:50.900 the way down when I said, we all know that like after Rush died and the left went nuts

00:40:54.760 and they celebrated, they were popping the champagne.

00:40:56.620 I mean, I've rarely seen that kind of celebratory atmosphere on the left.

00:41:00.580 Certainly not when somebody dies.

00:41:01.800 It was amazing.

00:41:02.520 I mean, honestly, the celebration of Russia's death on the hardcore political left was significantly

00:41:07.040 more more joyous than the celebration of Osama bin Laden's death.

00:41:10.860 I don't think there's any question.

00:41:11.920 If you go back and check Twitter that day, it was disgusting.

00:41:14.740 Rest in piss, rotten hell trending, Satan friended, right?

00:41:18.240 Like all this kind of stuff.

00:41:19.860 The the we all know that if you just substituted any prominent conservatives name there who was

00:41:25.480 not seen as, you know, the strange new respect recipient of the moment, it would be exactly

00:41:29.620 the same.

00:41:30.060 I mean, there's a very narrow class of people who are seen as, quote unquote, the recipients

00:41:35.000 of the strange new respect right now.

00:41:36.400 It's Mitt Romney.

00:41:37.080 It was John McCain at the end of his life, although not in 2008.

00:41:40.360 And, you know, unless you are on that side, unless you are a person who can be used for

00:41:44.340 democratic interests at a particular point, they're not going to treat you that way.

00:41:47.240 So if you're kind of a down the line conservative, it doesn't matter how polite you are.

00:41:50.480 It doesn't matter if you're a reverend.

00:41:51.540 None of that matters.

00:41:52.960 The idea is that you're a bad person who made the world a worse place and the world is better

00:41:55.740 off with your absence.

00:41:57.000 I mean, the headline from The New York Times, the day that Rush died, it talked about him

00:42:00.740 as a person who polarized the country.

00:42:03.320 I mean, their headline for mail was significantly more laudatory.

00:42:06.520 Their headline for Castro was significantly more laudatory.

00:42:08.620 I'm not kidding.

00:42:09.100 I mean, I actually looked up the headlines when they did the obis for these folks.

00:42:11.960 And the like their headline for Ayatollah Khomeini was Ayatollah Khomeini, 89, the unwavering

00:42:18.040 Iranian spiritual leader.

00:42:19.760 Their headline for Hugo Chavez was a polarizing figure who led a movement.

00:42:23.380 Their headline for Yasser Arafat was father and leader of Palestinian nationalism.

00:42:27.120 For Mao Zedong was he began as an obscure peasant and died as one of history's greatest

00:42:31.160 revolutionary figures.

00:42:32.060 And their headline for Rush was, quote, Rush Limbaugh, who built talk radio into right wing

00:42:35.900 attack machine dies.

00:42:37.760 Oh, my gosh.

00:42:39.080 I mean, come on.

00:42:40.280 I mean, come on.

00:42:40.840 I didn't realize it was quite that bad.

00:42:42.700 I did put that in my original New York Times in my original New York Times piece.

00:42:46.040 They cut it.

00:42:46.520 But I figured I had to at least give it a try.

00:42:49.380 You had a couple of great points in your piece.

00:42:51.980 Number one that we sort of touched on that they treated they treated this highlight reel

00:42:56.760 of his controversial comments as the bulk of his work.

00:42:59.000 And that was a lie.

00:42:59.860 That's a lie.

00:43:00.400 Rush had such a more important legacy than some.

00:43:03.200 And by the way, all like the freak out over what he said about Sandra Fluck.

00:43:07.260 I lived that.

00:43:08.300 I was on air when he called her a slut.

00:43:09.780 And she was she was complaining about the cost of birth control and thinking the government

00:43:13.680 needed to pay for her birth control.

00:43:15.180 She was a student at Georgetown with a nothing but a bright future ahead of her.

00:43:19.160 And yes, was it a nice thing to call her?

00:43:20.840 No.

00:43:21.260 Was it was it his best moment?

00:43:22.560 No.

00:43:23.100 But he was trying to make the point that give me a break.

00:43:25.980 Government doesn't have to pay for everything.

00:43:27.260 We don't have to pay for your birth control.

00:43:28.360 Well, you can find a way like the rest of us did.

00:43:30.340 And as somebody who went to Albany, not Georgetown, I felt the same.

00:43:34.080 I was just as poor, if not poor as Sandra Fluck in law school.

00:43:37.740 And you know what, Ben?

00:43:38.820 Somehow I found a way without the government's help to cover my own birth control.

00:43:43.460 So, of course, The New York Times and the other woman, Jill Filipovic.

00:43:46.180 I know there's like one of the only times he ever did.

00:43:49.900 But of course, when she writes it up, I don't know how you pronounce her last name, Jill

00:43:53.060 Filipovic.

00:43:54.520 When she writes it up, she spends paragraph after paragraph on what a misogynist he is

00:43:58.460 because he called this Sandra Fluck.

00:44:00.440 And he, you know, he coined the term feminazis, radical feminazis, which is a thing.

00:44:06.640 It's I'm sorry, but it's a thing.

00:44:08.760 Anyway, yes, totally out of context.

00:44:10.720 And you were sort of trying to say, no, his legacy is much different and that he broke

00:44:14.280 the monopoly that the that the left had on the media.

00:44:18.980 And for that, they will never forgive him.

00:44:21.980 Oh, that's right.

00:44:22.300 And you can see them not forgiving all of us for maintaining that lack of monopoly.

00:44:26.040 Right.

00:44:26.160 It's why you saw.

00:44:27.260 I mean, honestly, like I was kind of a gape at Peggy Noonan's column about Russia.

00:44:31.780 She ended it by essentially suggesting maybe the fairness doctrine should be restored.

00:44:35.200 I mean, that like that, that is that is crazy.

00:44:37.620 I mean, like there's this perception out there that the world is a better place.

00:44:40.720 When the fairness doctrine was in place, because it allowed for this nice comedy and monopoly

00:44:45.340 in the media.

00:44:46.280 Well, when you're the beneficiary of the monopoly, of course, you think things are calm and nice.

00:44:49.280 It's when you're the person who's getting victimized by the monopoly that you're like,

00:44:51.760 maybe there should be another option out here.

00:44:53.440 What Rush did is he presented the reality, which was that there was an entire half of

00:44:56.440 the country that had been neglected and sneered at by the establishment media and that those

00:45:01.040 people could be not only marketed to, but were hungry for information.

00:45:05.040 Without Rush, there is no Fox News.

00:45:07.160 Without Rush, there is no Daily Wire.

00:45:08.500 Without Rush, there are no podcasts.

00:45:10.380 Without Rush, none of this stuff exists.

00:45:11.600 And that was the point that I was making.

00:45:12.920 The left not only can't forgive Rush for that, they cannot forgive social media today

00:45:16.460 for providing a forum for dissenting voices, which is why you're seeing them go after Facebook

00:45:20.160 and why they're going after Twitter and why they're trying to cudgel all the social media

00:45:23.020 titans into restricting the flow of information.

00:45:25.660 They want a restoration of the monopoly.

00:45:27.920 They're angry that anybody else should be out there providing information.

00:45:30.880 It's why they've set up a cadre of fake fact checkers whose entire goal in life

00:45:34.660 is to pretend that right-wing outlets are somehow less trustworthy than left-wing outlets like

00:45:39.280 CNN or MSNBC or The Nation.

00:45:41.700 You know, it's complete madness, but it's why they kept calling Rush polarizing.

00:45:46.180 From the perspective of the monopolizer, the person who provides competition is polarizing

00:45:49.980 the market, right?

00:45:50.780 Before, there was only one option.

00:45:52.020 Now there are two.

00:45:52.880 The person who provided the second option is obviously the person who created the polarization.

00:45:57.620 Well, those of us on the right, you know what we think?

00:45:59.360 We think that the monopoly was inherently polarizing.

00:46:01.600 It was just that when the floodgates finally opened, we were finally able to say what we

00:46:05.580 wanted.

00:46:05.920 The monopoly ended, and that's why you're truly ticked.

00:46:08.660 That was the problem with the Fox News.

00:46:10.200 I used to laugh.

00:46:10.900 I'd be like, can't the conservatives have one?

00:46:12.580 They can't have one channel?

00:46:13.820 Not even one?

00:46:14.920 That has to go away.

00:46:15.740 And we're back to that now, of course, with people calling for Fox News to be canceled.

00:46:20.020 Everything comes down, of course, to identity politics, and Fox doesn't, you know,

00:46:23.520 toe the right line.

00:46:24.660 And that was one of the feedbacks and one of the criticisms of the Times, too, is the four

00:46:28.680 people they selected to write about Rush, this is from Tommy Christopher, who's an insane

00:46:32.500 lunatic over at Mediite, quote, all were white.

00:46:37.000 I'm sure he would have been thrilled if Ben Carson and Larry Elder had been selected to

00:46:43.100 write pieces.

00:46:43.980 He's not pissed they were white.

00:46:45.120 He's pissed they were that any conservatives got in there, that any non-Rush haters were

00:46:49.860 allowed to write anything.

00:46:51.300 Right.

00:46:51.460 And honestly, like I've been thinking about this as I've been watching you with Gina Carano.

00:46:54.980 Like there used to not be a forum for conservatives who get targeted or people who even just aren't

00:47:01.060 conservatives but have some thoughts that are to go.

00:47:03.780 That was it.

00:47:04.380 They had to deal with the mainstream media, mainstream Hollywood, all of it, sports now,

00:47:09.360 corporate America, all how it's going.

00:47:11.200 And there was no other place to go if they got canceled, if they got forced out, if they

00:47:14.340 got criticized for being, quote, white.

00:47:17.020 And that's where Daily Wire comes in.

00:47:18.940 I've been loving watching what's been happening over the past two weeks.

00:47:22.300 So Gina Carano, I confess, I didn't know who she was.

00:47:24.980 But she's a star of Star Wars, the TV show, right?

00:47:28.240 The TV show.

00:47:29.560 And she got canceled, effectively, by Disney Plus.

00:47:33.200 And who's the other one?

00:47:35.100 It's like Lucasfilm.

00:47:36.620 Yeah, Lucasfilm.

00:47:37.280 OK, because she sent out some post that it didn't exactly compare our modern day situation

00:47:44.400 and cancel culture and demonization of Republicans to Nazi Germany.

00:47:48.120 But I was flirting with that idea.

00:47:51.020 And you see her get fired after half of her colleagues had said had done exactly the same

00:47:57.160 thing, had made comparisons between our country to Nazi Germany.

00:48:00.140 But they were saying the Republicans were the Nazis.

00:48:01.880 So it was OK.

00:48:03.720 So she gets fired.

00:48:04.740 And just for the listeners who don't know, tell us what you did.

00:48:07.740 So we hired her.

00:48:09.440 We went to I called up Gina and I said, listen, they can try to cancel you or we can just

00:48:13.860 go do what we do here because we're building an entertainment side over here.

00:48:17.440 We had brought out a movie called Run, Hide, Fight a little a little bit earlier in the

00:48:20.340 year.

00:48:20.840 And so we said to Gina, you don't need to be part of the Hollywood monopoly that hates

00:48:24.040 your guts and wants to destroy your career.

00:48:25.540 So come on over here.

00:48:26.260 We'll make a movie with you.

00:48:27.380 We'll let you produce it and we'll develop it with you and you'll star in it.

00:48:30.600 And it'll be great.

00:48:31.420 And our people will love you.

00:48:32.320 And we will show that there is actually opposition out here, that you don't have to work at the

00:48:36.520 behest of the Hollywood glitterati and their perceptions of reality.

00:48:41.280 And it made big news, mainly because it's the first time anybody on the right has ever

00:48:44.700 punched back against this this sort of machine, because if it had not been for that, right,

00:48:48.540 this happened on Thursday.

00:48:49.540 On Friday, we announced that she was going to come work with us and the world kind of

00:48:53.420 exploded because the the left has never been hit with that.

00:48:56.620 By Monday, she would have been an old news item, right?

00:48:58.980 By Monday, she would have been just, oh, you remember that time that Gina Carano was on the

00:49:01.640 show and then she kind of said some stuff we didn't like so much.

00:49:04.400 And then we and then whatever happened to her?

00:49:06.140 I don't even.

00:49:06.880 But instead, it was, OK, she'll just walk across the street.

00:49:09.420 She'll make material that we like to make for people who want to hear from her and she'll

00:49:13.380 continue to do what she does.

00:49:14.700 That sort of alternative needs to be present in virtually every industry, because we're

00:49:17.720 watching this being crammed down, not just on people like Gina, who's a great person.

00:49:21.300 By the way, Gina is a sweetheart and a very nice person.

00:49:24.380 If you watch the Sunday special I did with her, it is perfectly obvious.

00:49:26.620 This is not a malicious human being trying to hurt anybody.

00:49:28.800 She was she was absolutely bewildered and stunned by the by the blowback on that particular

00:49:34.280 tweet.

00:49:34.580 The entire tweet, by the way, was or Instagram post was essentially, you know, that that

00:49:40.620 treatment of people in horrific ways begins with dehumanization of the other, which is

00:49:44.720 a perfectly decent generic point, right?

00:49:46.520 If you treat your neighbors badly and you treat them badly because of their politics,

00:49:49.480 eventually they can escalate to hatred that gets dangerous.

00:49:51.540 That was the point of the post.

00:49:52.460 Now, I'm not a big fan of Holocaust analogies because I think they're generally overwrought.

00:49:55.920 That's fine.

00:49:56.660 But you can say so.

00:49:57.240 But people called it anti-Semitic.

00:49:58.380 It's 100 percent not anti-Semitic as the official Jew.

00:50:01.320 OK, I can promise you that is not even close to anti-Semitic stuff.

00:50:05.240 And yet the same people who are promulgating Ilhan Omar memes are saying that Gina is like

00:50:09.620 some sort of vicious anti-Semitic.

00:50:11.180 It was craziness.

00:50:11.960 So we are glad to provide Gina that opportunity.

00:50:14.500 She's excited about it.

00:50:15.460 We're really excited about it.

00:50:16.380 And I hope that it crops up in nearly every industry because we're seeing Coca-Cola push

00:50:19.400 anti-racist training.

00:50:20.620 I want to be able to have enough companies out there on the right who say, listen, you get

00:50:23.700 fired for not attending the anti-racist training.

00:50:25.320 We've got a job over here for you.

00:50:26.420 They want to keep firing people who are quality people, who are doing a decent job in their

00:50:30.140 in their jobs and are getting fired for complete nonsense reasons.

00:50:33.280 Come over here.

00:50:33.760 You're creating a competitive advantage for us.

00:50:35.720 Guess what?

00:50:36.340 Were we going to hire Gina Carano before this?

00:50:38.220 Absolutely not.

00:50:39.360 Right.

00:50:39.520 Gina Carano is a big star on a Star Wars show.

00:50:41.360 Now we can hire her and now we can make a bunch of money.

00:50:43.360 I will tell you this.

00:50:44.240 Within the first within the first four days of us announcing we had hired Gina Carano,

00:50:48.120 there were the best four days in the history of Daily Wire in terms of our company,

00:50:51.660 in terms of just the number of people who subscribe.

00:50:53.000 Tens and tens of thousands of people subscribed because they were so ticked off at Disney and

00:50:56.880 because they want her content.

00:50:58.520 And you know what?

00:50:58.820 We'll keep doing that.

00:50:59.680 You want to cancel Chris Pratt?

00:51:00.740 Believe you me, we will go hire him.

00:51:02.540 You want to cancel anybody else on the supposed center or right who has the temerity to speak

00:51:08.060 out?

00:51:08.640 We got room over here and we will make room and we will be happy to produce excellent

00:51:12.200 material that Hollywood isn't making anyway.

00:51:14.060 And it's not going to preach to you about hardcore woke values.

00:51:16.900 And our people will love it.

00:51:18.220 They will love it.

00:51:18.920 And you will just be deprived of that audience.

00:51:20.600 You wanted to play this game?

00:51:21.400 And we're happy to play the game with you.

00:51:23.560 Honestly, that actually gave me a chill like that.

00:51:25.900 I feel so inspired by what you just said.

00:51:27.600 And this is, you know, we've all been talking about like, what's what's the answer?

00:51:30.560 Because we have to build an alternate infrastructure in so many lanes.

00:51:33.760 And there's only one way to do it.

00:51:36.340 Start, start, start doing it brick by brick.

00:51:39.960 By the way, I think your official title is, let me just look it up.

00:51:43.860 It was this guy, Noah Bertlatsky, who writes for NBC, The Atlantic, Washington Post and so

00:51:49.060 on.

00:51:49.220 He calls you king of the Jews.

00:51:50.460 You are officially king of the Jews.

00:51:51.920 And he he's mad.

00:51:54.520 You're not mad at Carano because he's he's like, oh, you know, it was anti-Semitic.

00:51:59.160 And so, you know, Ben Shapiro, king of the Jews, you should be giving her a hard time.

00:52:04.020 Barry Weiss goes down to she must be queen.

00:52:05.780 She's queen of the Jews.

00:52:07.300 And he's mad.

00:52:08.000 You give Gina a free pass, a free pass on her anti-Semitism.

00:52:12.940 Oh, yeah, that that piece was particularly egregious because that piece was he was comparing

00:52:16.760 the treatment of a of a far left socialist academic who had lost his column at The Guardian

00:52:25.120 for tweeting a bunch of pretty radically anti-Israel stuff with with with Carano.

00:52:31.360 And I defended that guy.

00:52:33.820 Like, I think that guy's a dirtbag.

00:52:36.180 Like, I don't like anything that he says, but I don't think that he should have been

00:52:38.340 canceled from The Guardian for saying stuff that I don't like about Israel.

00:52:40.900 And he's like, well, why would he defend?

00:52:42.800 Why would he defend Carano?

00:52:44.080 Because I defend a lot of people I disagree with.

00:52:46.160 And by the way, Carano is not an anti-Semite.

00:52:48.080 And anybody who thinks she is is an idiot.

00:52:49.700 It is perfectly obvious she's not an anti-Semite.

00:52:51.860 Like this is like the notion that you're going to lump her in with people who hate Jews,

00:52:56.960 right?

00:52:57.100 Like under under what rubric are you going to do this?

00:52:59.340 These are the same people who, again, make repeated excuses for Rashida Tlaib and Ilhan Omar

00:53:02.680 saying that I'm somehow selling out the what I don't understand anti-Semitism when I see

00:53:08.300 it.

00:53:08.580 I was the number one recipient of it in 2016, according to the Anti-Defamation League.

00:53:12.140 Like I'm I'm one of the most visible people on planet Earth who wears a yarmulke.

00:53:16.280 But I don't but I don't know anti-Semitism.

00:53:17.620 But Noah Berlatsky is going to judge it.

00:53:19.240 OK, makes perfect sense to me.

00:53:21.160 Well, at least he called you the king.

00:53:23.420 Gina, if you need look no further than her history of controversy.

00:53:27.480 And you really brought this out nicely in the Sunday special, which I recommend everybody

00:53:30.220 check out.

00:53:32.220 I couldn't believe the amount of pressure they put her under just for not tweeting her

00:53:38.240 pronouns.

00:53:39.040 They wanted her to change her bio, Twitter bio for to, you know, pronouns she, her, hers.

00:53:43.820 And I'm like Gina.

00:53:45.360 I refuse.

00:53:45.980 My motto is figured out.

00:53:48.480 Gina said, no, I don't I don't want to do that.

00:53:50.660 And they wanted her to to have a Zoom meeting with 40 LGBTQ employees and said, oh, you will

00:54:01.040 be apologizing.

00:54:02.200 And she was like, I think how about we just have like a lunch?

00:54:06.420 I don't really think I want to do a Zoom where I get berated by 40 people of your selection

00:54:14.280 on something that I just don't really feel comfortable doing.

00:54:18.400 Yep.

00:54:18.500 I mean, so here's the thing about Gina and you see this throughout this Sunday special

00:54:21.840 when you talk with her, she's a person who likes to have in-person contact.

00:54:25.100 So she she was saying to them, I'm happy to get together with anybody and eat over lunch

00:54:29.360 and like look them in the eyes because then they know that I'm a human being as opposed

00:54:31.980 to just a target on a Zoom meeting where they're taping it, which is what it was going to be.

00:54:35.460 It was going to be a struggle session on Zoom.

00:54:36.980 And if you don't show proper remorse, then it's by the way, what she originally did that

00:54:40.180 was the cause of the controversy is she posted in her Twitter profile, beep, bop, boop,

00:54:45.360 right as her as her as her pronouns.

00:54:48.500 And what she was making fun of was not transgender people.

00:54:50.780 What she was making fun of was all the idiots on Twitter who insist that if you don't put

00:54:53.860 your pronouns in your Twitter profile, this somehow means that you're transphobic.

00:54:56.820 So she posted a bunch of droid noises, beep, bop, boop.

00:54:59.220 This turned into a multi-day struggle session with Disney trying to push her to apologize

00:55:04.460 and offer this abject apology for having offended the transgender community.

00:55:07.720 Like, first of all, like, God, if you have nothing better to do than look at a person

00:55:11.840 making a joke, beep, bop, boop on their Twitter profile and feeling like super offended and

00:55:15.740 that person has to be canceled.

00:55:17.120 It's crazy.

00:55:18.220 And then they said, OK, fine.

00:55:20.940 Well, you know, you're good to go.

00:55:22.500 You've been cleared by the woke karate here at Disney.

00:55:25.540 But they did say you're not allowed to go and do interviews anymore.

00:55:27.980 Meanwhile, you've got everybody at Disney doing whatever interviews they want about any

00:55:30.500 other topic.

00:55:31.040 But Gina goes quiet.

00:55:32.340 OK, fine.

00:55:32.760 She's quiet.

00:55:33.260 But then she posts some Twitter stuff that they don't like.

00:55:35.840 And it's not bad Twitter stuff, right?

00:55:37.340 I mean, like, on the scale of Twitter stuff, this stuff is like this doesn't even rank.

00:55:40.460 And suddenly they're like, she's disparaging groups.

00:55:43.020 She's being bigoted against groups.

00:55:45.640 They can't explain how she's being bigoted against groups because she wasn't.

00:55:48.480 They literally cannot explain it.

00:55:49.660 It's just that she disagreed with them on issues that they don't want disagreement on.

00:55:52.680 And so they fired her.

00:55:53.660 And by the way, if she had been the lead on the series, they wouldn't have fired her.

00:55:56.420 But if she was a supporting actor on the series, if she had been Pedro Pascal, she wouldn't

00:55:59.640 have gotten fired.

00:56:00.480 It's that simple because that's right.

00:56:01.720 You know that if Disney had been making enough money off of something, they would have left

00:56:05.920 her on.

00:56:06.340 You know how I can tell?

00:56:07.100 Because Disney keeps putting up movies like they just put up The Muppets.

00:56:10.320 OK, The Muppets, the show from like the 80s, that show, like as soon as they posted that

00:56:15.660 on Disney Plus, I knew in a heartbeat, I tweeted it.

00:56:18.560 Within three weeks, they're going to cancel the Swedish show, right?

00:56:20.720 There's a bunch of stuff that's sort of politically incorrect.

00:56:23.320 It wasn't three weeks.

00:56:24.040 It was three days.

00:56:24.640 Within three days, Disney had placed a warning on The Muppets, the Muppets, saying that this

00:56:28.860 contains offensive stereotypes.

00:56:30.000 My favorite part of the statement was, but we're going to leave it up because, you know,

00:56:33.380 we think it's better to contextualize than to take it down.

00:56:35.420 No, the answer is you left it up because you're making money off of it.

00:56:37.320 Now you're covering your butt with a little statement up front, right?

00:56:39.680 So if you're if you can if you feel like you can you're going to lose more money than

00:56:42.500 you're going to make, then you are then you you then you fire people.

00:56:46.140 And this is the dirty little secret about the way that virtually all business in the United

00:56:49.160 States works works right now.

00:56:50.700 The right does not cancel businesses for being left wing.

00:56:53.400 The left cancels businesses for being even center to right wing.

00:56:56.980 There's good data to back this up.

00:56:58.380 There's a study from Harvard Business Review came out a couple of years ago.

00:57:01.300 They had a large survey group and they asked the survey group about three types of company.

00:57:06.180 They called it, I think, Jobs Corporation or something.

00:57:08.460 And Jobs Corporation version one was apolitical.

00:57:11.800 Then Jobs Corporation version two was liberal.

00:57:13.960 And the third version was conservative.

00:57:15.760 The the apolitical one, the kind of Q rating, right, the sort of popularity rating was people

00:57:21.000 kind of liked it, right?

00:57:21.860 It was good.

00:57:22.280 It made the product.

00:57:23.020 They're happy with it.

00:57:23.660 The liberal version.

00:57:24.360 People also kind of like that.

00:57:25.380 That was OK.

00:57:25.860 The conservative version dropped thirty three points in positivity ratings simply by being

00:57:30.820 labeled conservative.

00:57:32.000 They didn't even explain what that meant.

00:57:33.300 It dropped thirty three points entirely due to people in the selection group on the left

00:57:37.660 who decided they simply would not shop at a place that was labeled conservative in any

00:57:41.520 way.

00:57:42.240 The left has decided that they are in control of their intransigent minority in terms of

00:57:47.620 view.

00:57:48.300 And intransigent minorities can renormalize industries.

00:57:50.500 This is something that I've been pointing out on the show for a long time.

00:57:52.480 They're renormalizing industry by industry.

00:57:54.360 You form a hard core of the woke.

00:57:56.460 You form a hard core of quasi revolutionary thinkers.

00:57:58.960 And those people say we will not compromise with anybody on our core principles.

00:58:02.160 And we are going to yell and scream.

00:58:03.880 And everybody who's in the middle goes, well, they are kind of loud.

00:58:06.180 What if we just went along with them and and then everything will be OK?

00:58:09.660 And soon you have the entire corporation mirroring the priorities of people like this.

00:58:13.100 And it's bad for the country.

00:58:14.180 But the only there are only a few alternatives for people on the right.

00:58:16.720 One is that they could get people in the middle to recognize that there are countervailing

00:58:19.840 concerns.

00:58:20.240 We could become our own intransigent minority and say, listen, we're not going to cave inside

00:58:23.680 Coca.

00:58:23.960 You want to give us anti-racist training inside of Coca-Cola?

00:58:26.400 I got several thousand employees here who say we're not doing it.

00:58:29.040 You could do that.

00:58:30.120 The other thing that you could do is you could actually start pushing from the outside and

00:58:34.060 saying we're not going to shop at these corporations in the same way the left does.

00:58:36.760 I don't prefer either of those two alternatives.

00:58:38.920 The alternative that I prefer in the end is going to and the one that I think is going to

00:58:42.760 end up being the case will eventually be parallel structures being built.

00:58:47.080 There will be a conservative coat company.

00:58:48.740 There will be a conservative film company.

00:58:50.900 Now, in the best of all possible worlds, would everybody just go weapons down and we'd go

00:58:54.360 back to normal life and just shop where we want and say what we want?

00:58:56.500 That would be the best.

00:58:57.300 But I don't think the left's going to let that happen anytime soon.

00:59:00.260 No, I think the only the only answer is to fight.

00:59:03.580 And there's a couple of things that about all of this that ring true to me.

00:59:07.340 Number one, in terms of the media, and they'll love you just as long as they think you're

00:59:10.740 on their side.

00:59:11.460 You know, I was at Fox News and I don't think anybody thought I was on the left side.

00:59:15.700 I mean, some people were like, are you secretly one of us?

00:59:17.720 And conservatives all just assume like she's one of us.

00:59:19.680 And I was like, I'm kind of independent and open minded and just care about facts.

00:59:22.800 But we'll see how it turns out.

00:59:24.800 And when I asked Trump that question at the debate and then he got all up in my business

00:59:28.400 and so on for all those all those months, the media was writing the nicest pieces about

00:59:34.640 me.

00:59:35.060 I remember even Hillary Clinton, even Hillary Clinton then came out and said, Megan Kelly

00:59:39.580 is a fantastic journalist and he ought to, you know, stand stand up for questions to

00:59:44.520 her because he was threatening not to go to that second debate because of me.

00:59:47.700 And meanwhile, Hillary Clinton, I got on the air and I was like, if I'm such a fantastic

00:59:51.780 journalist, why don't you come on the Kelly file?

00:59:53.340 Let me practice some of my fantastic journalism on you, which, of course, she never did.

00:59:57.280 She never gave me an interview.

00:59:58.440 And as soon as I went to Trump Tower to try to make up with Trump, you know, just get him

01:00:02.660 off my back, get him to put me back on the sidelines and off the playing field.

01:00:06.520 Nobody apologized for anything.

01:00:07.700 Nobody had to just wanted to move past it, which he did.

01:00:10.360 And I did, too.

01:00:11.180 We moved on.

01:00:11.600 It was great.

01:00:12.880 Man, they turned on a dime, right?

01:00:14.780 I think I never needed their love, but it was amazing to see just how brazen they were

01:00:19.340 in their abandonment of anything nice about me.

01:00:22.600 That was sort of when I became their scourge because I made up with Trump and you have to

01:00:26.340 be against Trump.

01:00:27.080 That's very clear.

01:00:27.680 You can't tweet anything nice about Trump in defense of Trump.

01:00:29.800 You can certainly never report anything nice about Trump.

01:00:32.020 And as Gina Carano learned, you cannot tweet anything.

01:00:36.420 Forget Trump.

01:00:37.140 But that that might just be supportive of the right or Republicans.

01:00:41.980 Otherwise, it's instant hatred and exile from their club.

01:00:47.580 That's exactly right.

01:00:48.300 And but here's the thing.

01:00:49.340 We have an entire side of the aisle here that is just beginning to mobilize and it's

01:00:53.160 just beginning to realize its own power.

01:00:54.600 So you go out and you form your own podcast and it does great, right?

01:00:57.860 I don't have to worry about these folks so much because I have hundreds of thousands of

01:01:01.000 people who subscribe over it over at Daily Wire.

01:01:02.880 And that's great.

01:01:03.420 And Gina, by the way, is not going to have to worry about the cancel culture anymore because

01:01:06.180 Gina is going to make a movie with us.

01:01:07.820 It'll be great.

01:01:08.780 And she's going to get paid more probably than she was making over at Disney Plus.

01:01:12.080 So there's an entire side of the political aisle that is is capable of doing this sort

01:01:16.700 of stuff.

01:01:16.940 But we have to start thinking like the left does.

01:01:19.160 We have to start thinking, how do we defend against their predations?

01:01:21.580 Because there is this idea and it's really, you know, I think it's just a vestige of old

01:01:25.740 thinking.

01:01:26.100 We're all nostalgic for a time when we actually could be friends with people on the other

01:01:29.400 side.

01:01:29.920 And I still have friends who are on the other side.

01:01:31.940 But the future of the country is really going to lie with two factors.

01:01:35.400 One, can conservatives unify and create our own markets?

01:01:38.420 And two, will the people who are in the middle, will liberals, will be moderates, will

01:01:42.980 they decide that they would rather have a country where we respect each other or are they just

01:01:47.680 going to sit this one out?

01:01:48.780 And when it comes to liberals, liberals have a real choice.

01:01:50.560 When we're talking about liberals like the Harper's Weekly liberals, you know, the 150

01:01:53.060 liberals who signed a letter saying they don't like cancel culture, there wasn't a single

01:01:56.460 Trump voter on that list, right?

01:01:58.140 What they're going to have to decide is they agree with the left on a lot of the left policy

01:02:02.060 priorities, but they apparently disagree with the left on the left's cancel culture,

01:02:05.240 anti-individual rights nonsense.

01:02:06.800 They agree with the right on that.

01:02:07.980 So do they go along with the left to achieve policy utopia at the cost of those rights?

01:02:12.720 Or do they go along with the right and defend the rights, the individual rights, even

01:02:16.600 though it might mean that it'll be a slower road to policy utopia?

01:02:19.520 They have to make that choice.

01:02:20.660 We can't make that choice for them.

01:02:21.940 And whichever way they choose is going to define the future of the country.

01:02:24.580 Well, and they'll get weeded out.

01:02:25.640 If they choose the left, they'll get weeded out soon, too, because, you know, they're apostates

01:02:29.440 already just for signing that letter in support of free speech, which started with, we all

01:02:32.940 hate Trump.

01:02:33.360 Trump's awful.

01:02:34.100 Orange man, bad.

01:02:34.740 We all know that.

01:02:35.400 But be nice if we could have free speech on the country and express different viewpoints.

01:02:39.380 They were already basically kicked out of the true left wing club.

01:02:42.820 Um, I want to make two other points on Gina just that jumped out at me.

01:02:46.660 And not only was she pressured to add her pronouns to her Twitter bio, which she then

01:02:51.760 didn't, she was pressured like we saw others getting pressured to post something positive

01:02:57.260 about Black Lives Matter.

01:02:58.880 This happened to that best friend of Meghan Markle who lives in Canada.

01:03:02.380 What is that girl's name?

01:03:04.000 What's her name, Abby?

01:03:05.100 Remember that girl?

01:03:05.980 She's she's best friends with Meghan Markle.

01:03:07.840 So anyway, she's she hosts some show she used to on GMA and she had some her own wedding

01:03:13.240 show in Canada.

01:03:14.480 She's like an influencer.

01:03:15.940 And she refused to post something positive about Black Lives Matter.

01:03:19.420 She was she just wanted to stay out of it.

01:03:21.020 And she's like, I don't want to Jessica Mulroney.

01:03:24.120 And she wound up getting canceled because she got into it like a TIF with a with a African

01:03:28.460 American woman who was asking that she do it.

01:03:30.180 She wouldn't do it.

01:03:30.880 But that's the state we're at now where Gina, too, got in trouble because she didn't want

01:03:36.000 to post something positive about Black Lives Matter.

01:03:38.340 And you know what?

01:03:39.280 I agree.

01:03:40.320 I don't want to post anything positive about Black Lives Matter either.

01:03:42.740 The organization, I don't have anything positive to say about them.

01:03:45.740 I actually think we need to work against them because they're a very culturally destructive

01:03:49.300 force.

01:03:50.140 And I'm in a position now where I can't get canceled for saying that.

01:03:52.740 But Gina learned the hard way.

01:03:54.120 Not only is it you can't be neutral, you got to be on board and actively supporting their

01:03:59.220 causes on the left.

01:04:00.820 Yeah, well, there's been a shift that's gone on.

01:04:02.440 The left's been very clever about it and how they've approached conservatives and people

01:04:05.800 who are in the middle.

01:04:06.660 There's a general belief on the right and certainly among liberals that compassion matters

01:04:10.760 and that you should be nice to people.

01:04:12.540 And there's sort of this general cordiality principle.

01:04:14.660 So the left said is you're being non-cordial if you say something offensive.

01:04:18.020 And we're like, oh, well, you know, that's that's weird because some of the stuff I'm

01:04:21.120 going to say is probably going to be offensive to you.

01:04:22.600 But I kind of get it.

01:04:23.800 All right.

01:04:24.260 Then it went to speech is violence.

01:04:26.260 It's not just that you're being offensive.

01:04:27.240 It's that your offensiveness is violence.

01:04:28.600 We have to stop your speech.

01:04:29.660 So you have to shut up.

01:04:30.580 And then it went to the final step, which is silence is violence.

01:04:32.940 Right.

01:04:33.380 Which is if you be quiet, then that is still a form of violence.

01:04:35.980 You have to actively be a member of our mob out here shouting our slogans or you are doing

01:04:39.900 an act of violence.

01:04:40.500 So we went from we want you to speak a little bit less or at least be cordial about it to

01:04:44.820 if you speak, you're doing me violence to if you don't say what I'm saying, you're doing

01:04:48.740 me violence.

01:04:49.440 And you can see, you know, how we are now in the realm of if you don't listen and believe

01:04:53.720 as as Robin DiAngelo, that fraud is fond of saying, then you are on the wrong side of

01:04:58.340 history and you're going to be destroyed and they're going to wreck your life.

01:05:01.660 You got to you got to post the black square.

01:05:03.380 You don't post the black square and they will come after you.

01:05:06.120 Yep.

01:05:06.560 And and but, you know, you and I are over here telling everybody, remember, you can choose

01:05:11.480 not to post it.

01:05:12.200 You're not alone.

01:05:13.720 Remember that their whole goal is to make you feel like you're the only one and you're

01:05:18.480 not, you know, and I noticed that not only did Gina get fired by Disney Plus and Lucas,

01:05:24.360 but her agency, God, these agents are the worst.

01:05:28.660 UTA dumped her to what cowards they are disgusting that they would dump her over something that

01:05:38.320 is obviously a milquetoast offense at best.

01:05:42.500 If you're looking to be offended, you could find a way just shows how weak they are.

01:05:46.500 I mean, and there actually are agents, too, who are more middle of the road, more fair and

01:05:51.060 balanced, as we'd say, it's just another example of how, like, virtually every lane

01:05:55.660 needs to be recreated, a new sort of place in society where you can go.

01:06:00.440 And as you pointed out in your last answer, it doesn't just have to be conservatives.

01:06:03.720 You know, I don't consider myself a conservative.

01:06:05.760 I'm certainly leaning more conservative than I am liberal.

01:06:08.400 But I think I'm center right.

01:06:09.680 And I've got some views that are more center left.

01:06:11.560 But if I have to choose, I'm not choosing them.

01:06:14.500 Absolutely not.

01:06:15.200 But I hate what these people are standing for, like the total silencing of speech, the

01:06:19.900 total absence of grace, forgiveness, the understanding that, as my therapist says, people are complicated,

01:06:26.400 that life is short, that we shouldn't get caught up in these petty, meaningless differences.

01:06:31.540 We're going another way.

01:06:32.360 We're going the way of Coca-Cola, which, Ben, if they don't know that story, can you just

01:06:35.680 tell the listeners what Coca-Cola did?

01:06:37.260 Yeah, I mean, Coca-Cola has been using Robin DiAngelo anti-racism trainings, including telling

01:06:42.360 people to be less white, which sounds like a super racist thing that you should be able

01:06:45.600 to sue them over at the Civil Rights Commission.

01:06:48.280 So it's pretty incredible.

01:06:50.400 But yeah, I mean, that is exactly right.

01:06:51.260 Didn't we just learn with the whole blackface controversy that if you try to be less white,

01:06:54.820 it's bad?

01:06:56.220 But they don't mean skin color.

01:06:58.040 They mean, this is how Coca-Cola defines white.

01:07:01.420 Whites are, and this was reportedly distributed to their employees, whites are oppressive, arrogant,

01:07:07.480 certain, defensive, ignorant, not humble.

01:07:12.520 They won't listen.

01:07:13.920 They're apathetic.

01:07:15.040 And they're all about white solidarity.

01:07:17.760 And it really does.

01:07:18.720 It did come from Robin DiAngelo.

01:07:20.280 And I read all of that.

01:07:21.780 And all I could think was, fuck you, Coke.

01:07:23.860 Yeah, exactly.

01:07:24.780 Exactly.

01:07:25.280 My favorite one of those descriptions is the one that makes it a cult, right?

01:07:28.800 Which is defensiveness is an aspect of being white, right?

01:07:31.640 So if you deny any of these accusations, it's because you're being defensive, which means

01:07:35.640 that you're white, it's not that you are not oppressive or not bad or not racist.

01:07:40.100 It's that you're being defensive about being all those things.

01:07:42.000 And so your very defense against the charge is what convicts you of the charge, right?

01:07:46.500 So that's, I mean, that's just cultic nonsense.

01:07:48.480 So it's the fact that Coke is pushing that sort of stuff.

01:07:50.980 Like, why would you work at Coke?

01:07:51.940 Why would you buy Coke?

01:07:52.980 I mean, like, this is the kind of stuff where people are going to start looking at these

01:07:55.440 companies and saying, I don't want to patronize these companies anymore because they're

01:07:57.940 actively proselytizing for an extraordinarily destructive viewpoint in American society.

01:08:02.880 And that's exactly right.

01:08:03.880 But we need to actually construct these alternative businesses, give people places to go because

01:08:08.060 it's easy.

01:08:08.780 Look, I speak for a living and I've been able to build a business here.

01:08:11.220 So I get to work for myself.

01:08:12.620 But we all should be working on, especially those of us who have the power to do so, on

01:08:16.680 providing cities of refuge for people who are immediately, you know, cast out for nonsense

01:08:22.480 because the left is not going to stop with this stuff, unfortunately.

01:08:26.620 More with Ben in one second.

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01:09:47.740 Jodi Shaw, you saw she resigned from Smith College.

01:09:50.580 Our listeners have been following that because we interviewed her and they had placed her

01:09:54.900 on like double secret probation, basically administrative leave while they investigated

01:10:00.000 whether she sent one email that in passing referenced a student to her personal account.

01:10:05.640 It was an obvious excuse to dump somebody who was causing problems for them and asking

01:10:11.140 for an investigation into the neo-racism that they are unleashing against her and all the

01:10:15.880 other staff, forcing them to to believe all that stuff that that Koch just said about white people.

01:10:22.720 So she's she's effectively been forced out.

01:10:25.240 We'll see what she does next.

01:10:26.380 I hope she she does something in her own independent lane.

01:10:28.940 But part of the problem, Ben, is, you know, I mentioned that I story about my school.

01:10:32.780 Well, that's, of course, as you know, we pulled our children from from their other school,

01:10:36.180 which was very different.

01:10:37.160 And we had left that school, but they got extremely indoctrinating in their ideology and

01:10:41.640 their messaging.

01:10:42.040 And we were like, peace out.

01:10:43.880 We're out of here.

01:10:44.820 Then I see this story over the weekend about the Cartoon Network slipping in the messaging

01:10:49.860 while your kid is watching the damn cartoon, teaching the children what they need to do

01:10:55.400 is see color.

01:10:58.280 I think we have a clip of that.

01:11:00.540 I think it kind of does matter that I'm purple.

01:11:07.200 I mean, I'm purple because I'm literally an alien.

01:11:09.980 Well, I'm not an alien.

01:11:10.900 But it definitely matters to me that I'm black.

01:11:13.660 Yeah, it makes a difference that I'm white.

01:11:15.600 I know the two of us get treated very differently.

01:11:17.900 Adding a fantasy race in there helps distract from the actual racism black people have to

01:11:21.840 deal with.

01:11:22.780 Right.

01:11:23.280 My experience with anti-black racism is really specific.

01:11:26.840 Other people of color experience other forms of racism, too.

01:11:30.320 But you won't see any of that if you don't see color.

01:11:33.560 Oh, my God.

01:11:33.960 Can't can't my kids just watch Wonder Pets?

01:11:36.240 Can't they just watch a little Einstein?

01:11:37.860 And by the way, that fundamentally cuts.

01:11:41.200 I mean, this is getting pretty deep on a Cartoon Network piece of idiocy.

01:11:43.900 But that fundamentally cuts at the very basis of the Enlightenment, which is that you have

01:11:46.900 the capacity to understand other people's experiences without being them.

01:11:50.460 Right.

01:11:50.680 If you can't understand anybody else's thought process without being them, you fundamentally

01:11:53.540 cannot have a democracy.

01:11:54.720 There's just no way to do it because you literally cannot understand somebody else.

01:11:57.620 They have absolute authority within their purview.

01:11:59.860 And if you're talking about racial policy and racial policy is supposed to, according

01:12:03.480 to the Biden administration, infuse everything, equity is supposed to infuse everything.

01:12:07.700 Right.

01:12:08.280 If that's the case and I'm not allowed to ask not only whether your feelings are authentic,

01:12:12.300 but whether they are justified, if I'm not allowed to make a reasonable assessment as

01:12:16.060 to whether your policy is well calibrated to achieving a desired effect because I haven't

01:12:19.600 had, quote unquote, your experience, that's the end of democracy right there.

01:12:22.720 You may as well do what Ibram Kendi actually suggests because he's an actual honest to God fascist.

01:12:26.060 You should have a department of anti-racism in the federal government, unelected, that

01:12:29.480 strikes down every law that ends with inequality of outcome.

01:12:32.600 Right.

01:12:32.700 He's actually suggested that he did that in the pages of Politico.

01:12:34.980 And that guy's a well-respected thinker.

01:12:36.600 So indoctrinating kids with this kind of crap, it doesn't.

01:12:40.060 And by the way, quick note, the evidence on diversity training shows that in many cases,

01:12:45.100 it actually exacerbates racial conflict.

01:12:47.060 It does not make it better.

01:12:48.080 It makes it worse.

01:12:49.880 Absolutely right.

01:12:50.340 It causes racism.

01:12:51.280 And even if you have latent racism, the studies have shown it brings it to the frontal lobe.

01:12:56.800 You are much more likely to behave, actually behave whatever your personal views are deep

01:13:00.680 in the recesses of your mind.

01:13:02.260 As long as you don't act racist, you don't generally have a problem at work, in the law.

01:13:07.860 But these training sessions, of course, because they're telling all the white people that they're

01:13:11.500 terrible, bring up actual racist behavior.

01:13:15.860 They lead to actual racist behavior.

01:13:17.340 So they actually do do more harm than good.

01:13:19.060 That's why we need more Chloe Valdry's out there.

01:13:21.280 Who's got the real solution.

01:13:22.240 All right, let me shift gears with you for a second.

01:13:24.200 I've been curious to get your overall view of Joe Biden and how he's doing so far.

01:13:28.880 I mean, I think that he's being about as radical as I thought he was going to be.

01:13:32.760 I think the lie that he was going to be a moderate in any way has been pretty much disproved.

01:13:36.480 He's not been a moderate.

01:13:37.700 He's, you know, you can say that he's not in charge of his own administration, but he's

01:13:41.240 the president.

01:13:42.180 The bottom line is that by tying all of his policy preferences to, quote unquote, equity,

01:13:46.200 he's made a massive mistake.

01:13:47.340 Like he's pushing a $1.9 trillion package that is going to blow out the budget and result

01:13:51.740 in, I think, in inflation.

01:13:54.020 He is he's pursuing policies via executive order that are bad.

01:13:57.920 He's pursuing bad foreign policy.

01:13:58.920 He's being bad, bad, bad as bad as I thought he was going to be.

01:14:01.200 I don't see anything particularly unifying about the guy.

01:14:03.080 The media coverage of him has been absolutely worshipful.

01:14:05.940 But, you know, I'd be lying if I said that I thought I was surprised by any of this.

01:14:09.520 The only thing I'm surprised by is how often he lies about what he inherited with COVID and

01:14:13.380 how often the media let him get away with this, that part I'm kind of surprised by.

01:14:16.740 And I'm not really shocked, but I'm a little surprised.

01:14:19.600 I'm kind of surprised by how he's been leaning into wokeism.

01:14:22.400 I didn't I didn't know.

01:14:23.920 You know, I realize he was surrounded by people who are true believers.

01:14:26.720 But part of me wonders whether this is this is like a bone he's throwing to his party

01:14:30.540 because he's going to be more moderate on other issues.

01:14:33.280 So he decided, hey, what do I care if we go hard left on all this weird stuff?

01:14:36.240 I mean, like, I don't know what he's thinking or if he's thinking, but I've been a little

01:14:40.160 surprised at, you know, how hard left he's gone on wokeism and also concerned.

01:14:45.680 Yeah, I mean, I think that he went that hard left and he made references to this pretty

01:14:49.140 early on in his campaign, because remember, I mean, he's only the nominee because of his

01:14:53.660 extraordinary level of black support in the in the primaries.

01:14:56.320 Right.

01:14:56.760 The first three states in the primaries were really ran away from him.

01:15:00.580 Right.

01:15:00.840 When you're talking about Iowa and New Hampshire and none of those went well for him.

01:15:04.200 It was South Carolina with its extraordinary level of black support for Joe Biden in those

01:15:09.080 primaries that really started the comeback for him.

01:15:11.380 And he said this in his speeches.

01:15:12.300 Right.

01:15:12.920 He said in one of his speeches, I believe what, you know, the black community put me over the

01:15:16.860 top and I'll never forget.

01:15:17.780 You know, I know what you did for me and I won't forget what and I'm going to do stuff

01:15:20.660 for you, basically.

01:15:21.640 And to break people down into racial groups and saying you're going to do something for

01:15:24.980 them as a racial group, as presidents of the United States, is always like he was saying

01:15:28.940 that during the campaign.

01:15:29.720 It got completely overlooked because people weren't paying attention to anything he said during

01:15:33.780 the campaign.

01:15:34.240 It was all Trump all the time.

01:15:35.140 But, you know, I think that it has more to do with him as kind of political dealmaker.

01:15:41.120 I think Obama had more of an ideological tie to the sort of critical race theory, you know,

01:15:46.040 deep roots than Biden does.

01:15:47.480 I think Biden is a back slapping good old boy, you know, Congress person who really is

01:15:53.560 just interested in the backroom deals.

01:15:54.940 But he understands that if he wants to hold his coalition together, he's going to have to

01:15:57.940 do a lot of this.

01:15:58.500 So I think that he's pushing that.

01:16:00.360 It allows the radicals to feel seen and heard.

01:16:02.540 And I don't think he's ideologically committed to it because I don't think he even understands

01:16:06.440 the ideological ideological commitment.

01:16:09.000 I think if you asked him, what do you mean by systemic racism?

01:16:11.140 He would not actually understand what you're talking about.

01:16:13.280 If you said explain the difference in equity and inequality, then he wouldn't understand

01:16:17.660 what you're talking about.

01:16:18.420 Right.

01:16:18.540 These are all just buzzwords that he knows he's supposed to say.

01:16:20.980 By the way, most Americans also don't understand this stuff.

01:16:23.380 That's why he says equity.

01:16:24.840 When he says equity, what he means is he's going to cram down policy that treats people differently

01:16:28.580 based on the color of their skin.

01:16:30.360 That's what he means when he says equity.

01:16:31.460 But nobody understands that because it sounds so much like equality.

01:16:34.400 So I don't think he understands that either.

01:16:35.920 I think that he's just here's a bunch of rote democratic policies.

01:16:38.720 I'm going to push these forward.

01:16:39.940 I'm going to say that it's on the basis of race because that's how Barack Obama was so

01:16:43.960 successfully cobbled together this new coalition.

01:16:45.840 I've I've sort of revivified that same coalition and we can carry forward into the future with

01:16:51.140 the sort of woke coalition and a bunch of college educated whites.

01:16:54.040 And that'll be our new coalition.

01:16:55.620 The ascendant Obama coalition from 2012 has been remade in Biden.

01:16:59.220 And I think that he's, you know, doing the same thing that Obama did in 2012.

01:17:02.860 I don't think he's anything new.

01:17:03.620 I think he's he's Obama administration part three.

01:17:06.540 Yeah.

01:17:07.120 So far, we haven't seen much reason to believe otherwise between him and his spokesperson.

01:17:12.200 Let me ask you something personal.

01:17:13.780 So now, as you mentioned, you're in Florida now.

01:17:16.100 Daily Wire is in Nashville, Tennessee, not far away.

01:17:18.940 And you move from California, your business and your family.

01:17:22.860 So how what have you noticed in terms of the differences?

01:17:25.860 Obviously, the weather's not that much different, I would imagine, than California, but a little

01:17:29.640 bit, maybe more humidity.

01:17:31.140 But what have you what have you noticed are the biggest differences?

01:17:34.520 So I will say that it is significantly cleaner in terms of just the streets are kept cleaner

01:17:40.920 than they were where I was living anyway.

01:17:42.920 There's significantly less homelessness in the area where I live, which is definitely an upgrade.

01:17:47.200 I wasn't living in a bad area in California, but homelessness has completely taken over

01:17:50.200 the city of L.A.

01:17:51.760 There is less crime in the area where I live, certainly less taxes.

01:17:55.900 There's a general feeling of freedom.

01:17:57.980 Like people are wearing masks where I live because, you know, they want to be safe, but

01:18:01.980 people are still going out and doing things.

01:18:03.300 The stores are basically full.

01:18:04.960 You'll go to a bookstore with your kids and there's still people there.

01:18:07.680 It's just there's a general sense of people get to live their lives and be left alone.

01:18:11.760 And that's really, really nice.

01:18:13.240 I mean, it's definitely there is a feeling of oppressiveness that set in over the course of the

01:18:16.940 last year in California.

01:18:17.940 And that's coming from somebody who lived there my entire life.

01:18:20.880 The the that just doesn't exist in the same way in Florida.

01:18:23.120 I think it's why you're seeing this mass exodus from a lot of these blue areas to Florida.

01:18:27.160 Florida is getting redder, not bluer because of it.

01:18:30.300 Now, Florida is more conservative than California.

01:18:33.420 Obviously, it went for Trump this time around, but it doesn't always go Republican.

01:18:37.720 I would say it's getting redder, though, in the way that, you know, Georgia is getting

01:18:40.460 bluer.

01:18:40.780 It's got a pretty, pretty big expat community from New York.

01:18:44.760 A lot of our Jewish community winds up moving down there.

01:18:47.600 It's got a big Jewish community, too.

01:18:49.540 And as somebody who is the king of the Jews, according to whatever that guy his name is,

01:18:56.060 and a conservative guy, I was thinking, you know, because they're talking about Ivanka

01:19:01.080 Trump taking on Marco Rubio, which I don't think is ever going to happen.

01:19:03.960 I just don't think Ivanka Trump is going to win office.

01:19:06.720 I could be proven wrong.

01:19:07.700 I don't think she's got anywhere near the she doesn't have the spark.

01:19:11.300 She doesn't have what the what the old man has.

01:19:12.880 I think she's a perfectly nice person, but she doesn't she doesn't have it.

01:19:15.580 You, on the other hand, have it.

01:19:17.160 So what do you think?

01:19:18.580 Might there be people talking about you as the heir to Rush?

01:19:20.680 I'm thinking about you as the heir to Marco.

01:19:23.180 Oh, man, I holding public office sounds horrible, like horrifyingly bad.

01:19:28.260 First of all, like I get the ability to say what I think on a regular basis, which is precisely

01:19:32.440 the opposite of what you do when you're in politics, because if you're in politics, then the game,

01:19:37.100 of course, is to pretend that the policy you come up with fills all of the hopes of your

01:19:41.080 idea of your ideals.

01:19:42.420 And it's usually the reverse.

01:19:43.520 If you're honest in politics, what you say is here was I was aiming.

01:19:45.820 Here's what I was aiming for.

01:19:47.120 I got like 70 percent of it.

01:19:48.600 And then you see if people are happy with that.

01:19:50.140 Right.

01:19:50.820 But, you know, most people are not happy with that.

01:19:52.900 So the more honest you are as a politician with your constituents, the less they tend to

01:19:55.640 like you.

01:19:56.520 So that wouldn't be fun.

01:19:58.440 Also, you know, frankly, I think we're making a huge difference in the culture with what we're

01:20:01.640 doing at Daily Wire and holding public office in a lot of ways, I think,

01:20:05.200 would be sort of a downgrade as a senator.

01:20:07.500 You're one of 100 running, running Daily Wire and doing what we do here.

01:20:11.360 I think we're impacting tens and tens of millions of people.

01:20:14.820 And that I think is really cool.

01:20:16.960 So, you know, one of the things to consider is, you know, whether it's you or whether it's

01:20:21.360 Rush or any anybody else who's sort of a huge media figure, how many people do you impact?

01:20:26.000 And is it more than default senator from, you know, purple state?

01:20:29.300 And I think that typically the answer is yes.

01:20:31.360 I speak to a ton of young people, thank God.

01:20:33.780 And and, you know, if I were a senator, it wouldn't be nearly the same thing.

01:20:36.920 So when I was younger, I thought about running for public office a lot more and I was in my

01:20:40.620 20s and now I have a family.

01:20:41.760 First of all, I also don't like the idea of just my entire life being made subject to

01:20:45.640 scrutiny.

01:20:46.000 Like, I don't want to have to worry about where I go to eat for dinner or, you know, if I

01:20:50.000 buy my wife a nice a nice piece of jewelry, how that's treated in the press.

01:20:53.560 It's none of your damn business.

01:20:54.760 I kind of like my privacy and I like my kids to have their privacy as well.

01:20:57.680 Right.

01:20:58.560 And then you really will get the bathing suit bikini shots.

01:21:02.520 Yeah, exactly.

01:21:03.700 I mean, my wife is hot, but I certainly am not.

01:21:05.640 So that would that would be unfortunate for everyone.

01:21:07.740 What do you mean?

01:21:08.240 I thought you had the body of a god.

01:21:10.520 Now, wait, I do.

01:21:13.020 I think you're right.

01:21:13.760 I remember O'Reilly used to say this when I was young and up and coming at Fox and people

01:21:17.860 talked about whether he would run for president.

01:21:19.340 And he used to say, I have I have more power here at this anchor desk.

01:21:23.560 And I think he, you know, in some ways, maybe not the president, but certainly as a U.S.

01:21:27.400 senator.

01:21:28.280 Of course, O'Reilly was always drunk in his old one on his own wine.

01:21:30.740 And there was I'll give you just another bit of color.

01:21:33.160 He went he took a trip to Afghanistan and he's like, yeah, had the security team.

01:21:41.000 You had to watch out.

01:21:42.440 Bin Laden.

01:21:42.980 This is before Bin Laden had been killed.

01:21:44.220 And I'm like, you, you, you were worried that Bin Laden was going to take a hit out on you

01:21:50.640 while you're in Afghanistan.

01:21:51.560 And he goes, this is a quote, he goes, they watch The Factor.

01:22:01.920 He's sitting like, OK, you are a national figure, but hello, Bill.

01:22:08.940 That is spectacular.

01:22:10.680 That is so good.

01:22:12.100 Oh, my God.

01:22:12.600 I wish I had said that.

01:22:13.340 That's so good.

01:22:15.940 Oh, I love that so much.

01:22:18.300 All right.

01:22:18.520 So what?

01:22:19.180 So back to The Daily Wire, because I do think this is the maybe it's not the solution to

01:22:23.220 all of our problems, but it's certainly a very meaningful one.

01:22:26.300 What's what's next?

01:22:27.660 Like, how do you fight back against big tech?

01:22:30.120 How how does how could The Daily Wire ever fight back against ESPN?

01:22:34.120 How like and how can the rest of us, you know, like what's the next step?

01:22:38.120 So, I mean, we're moving into the entertainment space, obviously.

01:22:41.040 So we're producing a bunch of stuff right now in the entertainment space, which is sort

01:22:44.180 of the Netflix Disney plus space.

01:22:45.680 We would love to move into sports.

01:22:47.180 So we've been looking at a few different options in terms of sports.

01:22:50.460 There are some other good outlets out there.

01:22:52.520 Our friends over at Outkick do a really good job.

01:22:54.820 But, you know, we would love to we would love to to, you know, work with them.

01:22:59.160 We there are a lot of folks that would be fun to work with.

01:23:01.460 We for us, we have always seen this.

01:23:04.740 And, you know, this because we work with you also just in terms of being friends.

01:23:08.040 We we think of this as like a big pie and we want to expand the pie and we want more

01:23:11.240 people involved.

01:23:12.020 So it's not just Daily Wire.

01:23:13.060 Right.

01:23:13.200 We would love to see there be we'd love to see Outkick get enormous.

01:23:15.960 We would love to see, you know, all aspects of the culture covered by conservative alternatives.

01:23:20.720 And the more of that there is, the better if we can do that from inside.

01:23:23.560 Great.

01:23:23.840 I mean, we happen to be an excellently run company.

01:23:26.140 I think we have a great marketing team.

01:23:28.160 We really take our business seriously.

01:23:30.340 I think there's a reason why we were profitable 18 months in and haven't been non-profitable

01:23:34.460 for, you know, essential of not essentially any year that we have been in operation.

01:23:39.740 We've been growing by leaps and bounds every single year, almost 50 percent year on year,

01:23:44.460 I believe.

01:23:45.420 So it's you know, we think there's a lot of space here and we'd love to bring more people

01:23:49.400 in. But if people want to stay out and they want to be independent, then we want to see

01:23:52.460 those people succeed.

01:23:53.120 Also, we want to see them provide other alternatives.

01:23:55.320 We need a lot of us out here.

01:23:56.540 It can't just be us.

01:23:57.840 Yeah, no, you guys have been wonderful to me.

01:23:59.420 I mean, we were friends before I launched this company, but you and Jeremy Boring, your

01:24:03.320 partner, have been delightful and so supportive.

01:24:05.380 And so you you practice what you preach is what I'm trying to say.

01:24:08.240 But you I like that you you think about it even outside of building infrastructures and

01:24:12.520 support systems and, you know, actually putting your money where your mouth is when

01:24:16.380 it comes to people like Gina.

01:24:17.280 Gina, you've got some other good advice that jumped out at me.

01:24:19.640 And I actually hadn't heard you say this before.

01:24:21.400 I read it, but somebody was asking.

01:24:23.320 So what do we do?

01:24:23.960 Like, what do we do in our day to day lives?

01:24:25.580 Maybe we're not going to watch Netflix because of cuties or maybe we're not going to drink

01:24:28.720 coke because of this nonsense about white people.

01:24:31.580 And you said, I got two solutions for you.

01:24:34.280 Go to church or synagogue and make sure you take your kid to the Fourth of July parades.

01:24:39.020 I love that.

01:24:40.140 Yeah.

01:24:40.820 Yep.

01:24:41.140 Well, I mean, those things have been shown by social science, by the way, to be some of the

01:24:44.720 most determinate of the values of your kids.

01:24:46.760 It's little things like that.

01:24:47.900 Like there's a very high correlation between do you take your kids Fourth of July parade

01:24:51.060 and does your kid end up being conservative?

01:24:52.840 Do you take your kid to church and does that kid end up being conservative?

01:24:55.980 Because those are the stuff that I mean, what do you remember from when you were a kid?

01:24:58.860 When you say, what are your patriotic memories as a kid?

01:25:01.160 Virtually everybody's going to say, I saw fireworks on the Fourth of July.

01:25:03.620 When they say, you know, when you think of your defining ideological and philosophical

01:25:08.620 experience as a kid, usually there's only a couple and one of them is usually in church,

01:25:13.160 either for good or for ill, right?

01:25:14.700 So forming community with other people, you know, forming a lifestyle with other people

01:25:19.100 is really, really important and forming that common connection with people.

01:25:22.760 And people can get cues from shows like mine or shows like yours.

01:25:26.280 But in the end, it's going to be them forming communities with others who they see on a daily

01:25:29.800 basis and actually look at them face to face and get to know them as people and and believing

01:25:34.800 that they're going to support them if something goes wrong.

01:25:37.120 That is that is really going to allow for there to be a resistance to the dominant leftist

01:25:40.700 culture in the country right now.

01:25:42.300 I think that's another good thing about your move to Florida is, you know, and as you know,

01:25:45.900 we're leaving the Upper West Side of Manhattan, too.

01:25:48.400 I do think there's something to be said for, you know, maybe not being 100 percent surrounded

01:25:52.280 by people who are ideologically aligned with you, but you need some.

01:25:56.760 It's kind of exhausting not having any.

01:25:59.840 And, you know, I think about like we go out to Montana and we go out there for the rodeos

01:26:04.280 in the summer and we're totally immersed in the culture out there.

01:26:06.960 And it's awesome.

01:26:08.280 And just to your point about the the flag and patriotism, we were sitting there a couple

01:26:12.360 of years ago.

01:26:13.080 Thatcher was, I guess, four at the time, my little guy.

01:26:16.700 And we're sitting on the in the stands.

01:26:19.280 And at the start of the rodeo, they, of course, play the national anthem.

01:26:23.080 And Thatcher, you know how like four year olds are, right?

01:26:25.080 Like you've got one, they don't move that quickly.

01:26:27.200 They're kind of daily lollygags a little.

01:26:29.180 And there was this real cowboy like he had been a rider back in the day, a bull rider.

01:26:34.240 He leans down.

01:26:35.220 He's got like the chew in the mouth and he's got the cowboy hat and he's got the exit.

01:26:38.160 And he goes to Thatcher, he goes, son, you better get up on your feet immediately.

01:26:44.840 I'm like, it's so great.

01:26:47.900 And of course, I would have gotten Thatcher up, too.

01:26:49.540 But, you know, it's fantastic the community weighing in like we respect our flag, kid.

01:26:56.080 Yeah, well, that's right.

01:26:56.900 I mean, listen, I've always grown up in a in a Jewish community, which means that there's

01:27:00.680 people who surround us who tend to think like we do.

01:27:02.960 But it has to be a broader community than that.

01:27:04.540 It has to be a lot of people who agree with you on broad issues in in American public life

01:27:08.940 and also who shield your kids, because this is the other thing.

01:27:11.840 Part of parenting is about making sure that your kids are surrounded by the values that you

01:27:14.680 want.

01:27:15.100 And part of it is about making sure that they're not with the values you don't want.

01:27:17.700 And that is really important.

01:27:19.300 And I understand there are people out there who want to shape your kid and who think that

01:27:22.340 their values are better than yours and who get to parent your kid, but they don't.

01:27:25.780 And it's why my kids have not watched TV since October.

01:27:27.820 I'm dead serious.

01:27:28.720 My kids do not watch television.

01:27:30.180 And I have no intention of letting them begin to watch television other than the TV that

01:27:34.020 I personally approve, because I don't want them exposed to things I don't want them exposed

01:27:37.940 to.

01:27:38.400 I don't think that I should have to explain to my four year old about transgenderism.

01:27:42.160 I don't.

01:27:42.960 I think it's confusing to him.

01:27:43.920 And I think it's wrong to do that to a four year old.

01:27:45.560 I don't want to have to explain to my daughter abortion policy.

01:27:50.220 She's seven.

01:27:51.020 This is absurd.

01:27:51.920 So I protect her from that.

01:27:53.160 And I think everybody should have the ability to protect their kids from stuff that makes

01:27:56.240 them not innocent.

01:27:56.960 It used to be the chief goal of parents to keep their kids innocent.

01:27:59.300 Now it's to apparently be friends with them or to allow them to make their own decisions.

01:28:02.920 I wouldn't let my four year old make his own decision.

01:28:04.500 Are you insane?

01:28:04.980 He'd be dead inside of 24 hours.

01:28:06.640 I'm not going to let my seven year old make a decision.

01:28:08.860 She's like that.

01:28:09.280 That's crazy.

01:28:09.720 If I let my seven year old make decisions, she'd be taking the golf cart and she'd be

01:28:13.820 running it into one of the ravines over here.

01:28:15.620 Like, what are you even talking about?

01:28:17.380 So it's just the creation of a space that you do actually have to create safe space for

01:28:25.200 children, not for adults or children.

01:28:27.440 But in order to create a safe space for your kids, you also have to be comfortable to live

01:28:30.880 your own life because your kids can tell when you're on edge as well.

01:28:33.300 My kids know I'm more relaxed down here.

01:28:34.500 Yeah, I mean, I'll tell you, so we don't we do the same with our kids in terms of this

01:28:39.380 messaging as much as we can here where we live and try to keep it out.

01:28:42.440 But I go beyond that because another thing I don't talk to my kids about is school shootings.

01:28:46.340 I don't I've never discussed it with them and I don't plan to discuss it with them.

01:28:49.540 There's very little God forbid this ever happens that they could do.

01:28:52.540 And there's very much worry that will weigh on their shoulders if I do get into this with

01:28:56.920 them.

01:28:57.280 There's no reason to saddle them with that kind of stuff.

01:29:00.680 So that's the kind of safe space I would create for my kid, like emotional.

01:29:04.500 Safe space from from borrowed worry, as they say, and something about which they can do

01:29:08.880 nothing.

01:29:09.260 Might as well make them worry about terrorism.

01:29:10.920 You know, a little kid can't do anything about it.

01:29:12.880 However, we're not all about the safe spaces because I'll tell you something, Ben Shapiro,

01:29:16.560 what I just did this past weekend.

01:29:18.540 I went with my family and Janice Dean and her family to the Kalahari Resort in the Poconos,

01:29:25.900 Pennsylvania, which is one of the largest indoor water parks in America.

01:29:30.360 And I bathed in the E. coli infested waters, I assume.

01:29:35.320 I don't mean to disparage them.

01:29:36.620 It was amazing.

01:29:37.960 And it was one of the most delightful experiences I've had in two years.

01:29:41.880 And it was packed because people are ready to get back to normal, to have their freedoms

01:29:46.960 restored, to take a little bit of risk.

01:29:49.620 You know, and it's probably no accident that most of the people there were more middle class

01:29:53.340 or working class.

01:29:54.320 And I thought to myself, I'm home.

01:29:56.960 Yeah.

01:29:57.240 I mean, you know, I think that there's a lot of people who are itching for freedom.

01:30:00.680 There are a lot of people who feel like they've lost their freedom and feel deplatformed and

01:30:04.400 feel as though they're living under a constant threat of an anchor dropping on their head.

01:30:08.060 And, you know, those of us who have the ability to provide them with either a ray of hope or

01:30:12.480 a lifeline ought to do it for sure.

01:30:15.160 Absolutely.

01:30:15.920 Well, thank you for leading the way, my friend.

01:30:17.860 It's always a pleasure catching up with you.

01:30:19.560 And let's do it again soon.

01:30:20.940 Great.

01:30:21.180 Thanks so much, Megan.

01:30:22.140 Great to talk to you.

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01:30:48.820 And I'm really looking forward to this conversation.

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01:32:07.900 The Megyn Kelly Show.

The Megyn Kelly Show - February 24, 2021

Ben Shapiro on Firing Fauci, Uncanceling Carano, and Ditching California ｜ Ep. 68

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