The Megyn Kelly Show - Best of 2022： Memorable Moments Featuring Malcolm Gladwell, RFK Jr., Goldie Hawn, and More

00:00:00.000 Now streaming on Paramount Plus.

00:00:02.860 Someone is trying to frame us.

00:00:05.160 Until our names are cleared.

00:00:07.720 We're fugitives from Interpol.

00:00:09.480 Like Bonnie and Clyde with better snacks.

00:00:12.880 Espionage?

00:00:13.560 You still as good a shot as you used to be?

00:00:16.600 Better.

00:00:17.400 Is there love language?

00:00:18.860 We like to walk that fine line between techno-thriller

00:00:21.380 and romantic comedy.

00:00:24.180 We make up our own rules.

00:00:25.940 NCIS Tony and Ziva.

00:00:27.400 Now streaming on Paramount Plus.

00:00:30.000 When I found out my friend got a great deal

00:00:32.300 on a wool coat from Winner's,

00:00:33.920 I started wondering,

00:00:35.580 is every fabulous item I see from Winner's?

00:00:38.680 Like that woman over there with the designer jeans.

00:00:41.400 Are those from Winner's?

00:00:42.940 Ooh, or those beautiful gold earrings.

00:00:45.380 Did she pay full price?

00:00:46.740 Or that leather tote?

00:00:47.740 Or that cashmere sweater?

00:00:48.940 Or those knee-high boots?

00:00:50.420 That dress?

00:00:51.220 That jacket?

00:00:51.880 Those shoes?

00:00:52.900 Is anyone paying full price for anything?

00:00:55.840 Stop wondering.

00:00:56.760 Start winning.

00:00:58.080 Winners find fabulous for less.

00:01:00.800 Welcome to The Megyn Kelly Show.

00:01:02.660 Your home for open, honest, and provocative conversations.

00:01:12.140 Hey everyone, I'm Megyn Kelly.

00:01:13.820 Welcome to The Megyn Kelly Show.

00:01:15.340 It is the very last show of 2022.

00:01:18.200 And we wanted to bring you some of the highlights of this past year.

00:01:21.520 So much goodness to choose from,

00:01:23.040 and we are so grateful that you were there for it all.

00:01:26.760 But with more than 200 episodes this year alone,

00:01:29.960 and 400 interviews, it is so hard.

00:01:32.020 It's hard to do a best of show, right?

00:01:34.420 It's like, who do you exclude?

00:01:36.680 There's so many, so much goodness in any event.

00:01:39.360 So we're not going to say this is like the best ever,

00:01:41.880 because these people are amazing,

00:01:43.300 but there were many others we could have used,

00:01:44.840 but there's, you know, time is limited.

00:01:45.740 So we are going to bring you some of six interviews over the past year

00:01:49.880 that give you a flavor, a flavor of some of what The Megyn Kelly Show is all about.

00:01:54.860 A little sampling of what we do here,

00:01:56.920 and we'll continue to do in 2023.

00:01:59.420 Got to start with our pal Bridget Phetasy's return to the show in episode 402.

00:02:04.200 I feel like this might be the second year in a row she's made,

00:02:06.540 like, end of year highlight reel.

00:02:08.420 That's a credit to Bridget.

00:02:09.660 When Bridget was first on the show,

00:02:11.920 when The Megyn Kelly Show was just a podcast,

00:02:13.540 it was one of the most talked about interviews I did in 2020.

00:02:17.000 Well, a lot has changed in Bridget's life since then,

00:02:20.440 and we talked about all of it,

00:02:22.360 life after motherhood, and much, much more.

00:02:26.400 Your piece on Substack, entitled,

00:02:29.660 I Regret Being a Slut,

00:02:32.100 is, as Ben said, a beautiful and brave piece.

00:02:36.320 It really was.

00:02:37.340 And something near and dear to my own heart,

00:02:40.260 because I've said this before on the show,

00:02:42.760 I was in a much different place than you were,

00:02:44.580 and our backgrounds are different, of course, too,

00:02:46.000 but we're very aligned on virtually everything now.

00:02:49.460 But the one piece of advice I give everyone's daughter

00:02:52.120 going off to college is the same,

00:02:53.600 and it is, don't be a slut.

00:02:55.780 Don't be a slut.

00:02:56.680 Don't give it away so easily, girls.

00:02:58.920 Like, make them earn it.

00:02:59.920 Remember your value.

00:03:01.200 Like, having sex,

00:03:03.060 you don't have to be in love,

00:03:03.980 but it should be something really precious,

00:03:05.340 and you don't just want any Tom, Dick, or Harry

00:03:08.000 jumping on top of you, so to speak.

00:03:11.120 You are there, too,

00:03:12.660 but you got there through a much more traumatic road,

00:03:15.860 and I will just read this one piece

00:03:18.620 of your amazing Substack piece to our audience.

00:03:21.980 You write,

00:03:22.460 If I get really honest with myself,

00:03:25.180 I'd say most of these usually drunken encounters

00:03:27.320 left me feeling empty and demoralized and worthless.

00:03:31.480 I wouldn't have said that at the time, though.

00:03:33.500 At the time, I would have told you I was liberated,

00:03:36.040 even while I tried to drink away the sick feeling of rejection

00:03:38.740 when my most recent hookup did not call me back.

00:03:41.620 At the time, I would have said one-night stands

00:03:43.660 made me feel emboldened,

00:03:45.980 but in reality, I was using sex like a drug.

00:03:48.440 You go on,

00:03:49.500 The lie I told myself for decades was,

00:03:51.740 I'm not in pain.

00:03:53.260 I'm empowered.

00:03:56.580 Wow.

00:03:58.040 So how did you come to that realization?

00:04:01.740 How did you spend so much time in that dark place?

00:04:04.540 Was it sobriety?

00:04:06.040 Did that behavior continue after?

00:04:07.940 What was it?

00:04:08.520 It was a lot of sobriety and a lot of therapy.

00:04:13.940 And I think, yeah, a lot of,

00:04:17.020 when I think about this,

00:04:18.860 I know a lot of it is tied up with my drinking and drug use.

00:04:23.220 A lot of that behavior,

00:04:25.540 I don't think I would have engaged in

00:04:27.580 had I not been drunk or high.

00:04:31.340 And so those things are very connected.

00:04:35.960 Also post sexual assault,

00:04:38.980 when I was pretty young, 18,

00:04:41.940 I really felt dirty and ashamed.

00:04:45.180 And I felt like it was my fault

00:04:47.160 because I was drinking underage.

00:04:49.760 And I felt like I was valueless now.

00:04:54.880 And it wasn't like I hadn't already lost my virginity,

00:04:57.960 but I had really only just lost my virginity

00:05:01.140 when this happened.

00:05:02.600 So I was still pretty early into my sexuality.

00:05:09.140 And then I responded to it

00:05:11.580 by being kind of hyper promiscuous,

00:05:13.540 which is very common for women

00:05:15.920 who have experienced trauma.

00:05:17.380 They'll often just become hyper.

00:05:20.260 They'll go into being more promiscuous.

00:05:23.200 And it's a way to try and take control back.

00:05:25.820 At least it was for me.

00:05:26.940 And it was also just a way of,

00:05:30.420 and at the same time,

00:05:32.760 feeling like I had no value and ashamed

00:05:35.280 and saying like, oh, I don't care.

00:05:38.400 I just don't care.

00:05:39.580 And so it's been a really,

00:05:41.700 I mean, the emails I've received from women

00:05:43.780 and men and gay men,

00:05:45.960 since I wrote that piece,

00:05:47.380 I'm still getting them.

00:05:48.720 It is incredible.

00:05:50.800 The stories people are telling me,

00:05:52.340 the response,

00:05:53.200 the, I think that there was a generation,

00:05:57.260 Gen X, older millennials,

00:05:58.700 and we were raised with that kind of girl power.

00:06:02.540 You can sleep your way to empowerment

00:06:04.900 and you can unyoke your heart from sex with no consequence.

00:06:10.760 And a lot of those women are coming back saying,

00:06:14.220 you know, it's a trap.

00:06:15.180 Don't, don't go that way.

00:06:18.240 I always felt like if I have sex with a guy,

00:06:22.500 he's always going to have that over me.

00:06:25.240 That's kind of how,

00:06:26.280 I don't know if that sounds weird,

00:06:27.720 but I just felt like it has to be with somebody

00:06:31.060 who I trust to never misuse it against me.

00:06:35.540 And, you know,

00:06:37.160 who's not going to like,

00:06:38.680 whatever,

00:06:39.060 if I wind up being a lawyer,

00:06:40.260 I wind up being a journalist,

00:06:41.220 who's not going to be able to sit there being like,

00:06:42.640 I did her, you know,

00:06:44.060 I never wanted to give that power to anybody

00:06:46.460 who I didn't really trust.

00:06:49.180 Maybe I was just paranoid at the proper age.

00:06:51.220 You know, I don't know what it was.

00:06:52.720 Yeah, that's, that's interesting.

00:06:54.280 Where, where did you get your sex messaging from?

00:06:57.500 You know, I'm Catholic like you, for sure.

00:07:00.440 But I don't know.

00:07:01.940 I wouldn't describe myself as prude.

00:07:03.560 It's not like I wasn't fooling around.

00:07:05.040 I just was monogamous and I was judicious

00:07:07.900 and how many people I, you know,

00:07:11.020 offered that to.

00:07:12.640 So I guess,

00:07:14.280 I don't know, Bridget.

00:07:16.140 I, I thank God I never did suffer a sexual assault.

00:07:20.160 And I did have, you know,

00:07:22.760 great messaging from my parents

00:07:24.200 and an example of a very loving marriage.

00:07:27.560 And my dad died when I was 15.

00:07:29.400 But prior to that,

00:07:30.260 my parents were very much in love.

00:07:31.440 And I, I guess I just had a good foundation

00:07:33.260 in this department.

00:07:34.320 I, I was built up in terms of my ego

00:07:36.720 and all, you know what I mean?

00:07:37.500 Like, not overly,

00:07:38.420 but I think that is important.

00:07:40.020 Um, and I know you talk very openly in this piece

00:07:42.860 about how you had a very different experience.

00:07:44.520 You had a traumatic divorce in your family

00:07:46.600 when you were young

00:07:47.180 and an undiagnosed mental illness

00:07:48.860 in your stepfather

00:07:49.660 and things started to go south for you

00:07:52.060 when you were on the same track I was on

00:07:53.740 for a while there.

00:07:54.900 Yeah, and I kind of get to the point

00:07:57.240 at the end that you just said

00:07:58.920 where I, I regret that those men

00:08:01.660 can say they slept with me.

00:08:03.980 And that there's, that's,

00:08:05.720 I mean, I've dealt with that

00:08:07.040 even after I went on Joe Rogan,

00:08:09.180 the number of guys that reached out

00:08:10.660 and were like,

00:08:11.340 oh, nice to be able to say,

00:08:12.860 I like bang someone.

00:08:14.480 I was like, oh,

00:08:16.280 this is so uncomfortable.

00:08:18.860 I hate that.

00:08:19.620 I hate this.

00:08:20.660 And moments like that

00:08:22.600 have made me reflect on,

00:08:23.960 you know, having to look at that,

00:08:26.100 that feeling that comes up

00:08:28.920 when I hear from a guy who's like,

00:08:30.440 oh, I got to say that I slept

00:08:31.820 with someone who was on Rogan.

00:08:33.320 It's just like, oh God, I feel,

00:08:35.320 that's not the compliment you think.

00:08:37.040 You're even dumber than I thought you were.

00:08:38.740 Yeah.

00:08:39.640 Shit.

00:08:41.520 But you know, in your case,

00:08:42.920 I see it very differently

00:08:43.700 because I feel like

00:08:44.640 that was the younger me anticipating

00:08:46.620 how, you know,

00:08:48.220 I wanted my life to go

00:08:49.080 and how I didn't want it to go.

00:08:50.280 But the older me looks at your life

00:08:52.760 and says,

00:08:53.520 there's zero point in regretting all of that.

00:08:55.660 You shouldn't regret all of that.

00:08:56.940 All of that went into making you

00:08:58.320 this really thoughtful,

00:09:00.560 wise beyond your years person

00:09:02.880 who with this one essay

00:09:05.160 did so much good.

00:09:07.300 I mean, all the times I've said,

00:09:08.580 don't be a slut.

00:09:09.540 I haven't done anywhere near as good

00:09:11.240 for women thinking about it

00:09:13.340 or who might've been tempted to do it

00:09:14.940 than you did with this essay.

00:09:17.220 But it's because I think partially

00:09:19.960 and because I'm being honest

00:09:22.180 about how I regret it

00:09:23.460 and there's been a weird reaction

00:09:25.520 to that word regret

00:09:26.520 and I don't know if this is like

00:09:27.980 an American thing

00:09:29.180 where it's just kind of like YOLO

00:09:30.660 and regret is almost a dirty word.

00:09:34.580 And people are like,

00:09:35.920 you shouldn't, you know,

00:09:36.740 one of the biggest feedback

00:09:38.140 I get on this piece

00:09:39.200 is the people reacting to me

00:09:41.020 saying that I regret this.

00:09:42.380 And I think that, you know,

00:09:44.820 I look at the arts

00:09:45.860 and life is filled with regret.

00:09:47.900 I feel like that's an emotion

00:09:49.480 that weirdly has become something

00:09:52.420 we're not supposed to have.

00:09:54.100 And that's like a whole other piece

00:09:56.220 that I could think about and consider

00:09:58.180 because I do regret these things.

00:10:00.360 When I had those guys reach out to me

00:10:03.160 and say, oh, I got to blah, blah, blah.

00:10:06.580 The feeling that I have is regret.

00:10:09.400 Like, I regret giving that to you.

00:10:11.920 I regret not valuing myself enough.

00:10:15.360 And of course, I did the best that I could

00:10:17.140 with wherever I was at

00:10:18.540 and all of that stuff.

00:10:20.200 But there was always an intuition

00:10:22.320 that I was ignoring.

00:10:23.800 There was always,

00:10:24.420 and that's really what I would say

00:10:25.920 to young women.

00:10:26.940 Don't ignore that intuition

00:10:28.560 and having the culture be so,

00:10:31.580 I grew up during Sex and the City.

00:10:33.640 I hated that show and didn't watch it,

00:10:35.240 but all my friends watched it

00:10:36.980 and everybody that the messaging

00:10:39.060 there was like,

00:10:41.020 have sex like a man.

00:10:42.500 You can.

00:10:43.780 And the double standard

00:10:45.520 is something that really

00:10:47.300 always bothered me.

00:10:48.820 And I'm not sure if I'm just now

00:10:50.920 resigned to the double standard

00:10:53.040 or I know that me getting naked

00:10:56.540 and sleeping with men

00:10:57.460 isn't going to change it.

00:10:59.060 Well, that's the thing.

00:11:00.160 I've learned that the hard way.

00:11:00.900 So now we're getting to it.

00:11:02.040 Now we're getting to it

00:11:02.840 because it's,

00:11:04.960 so what do you regret about it?

00:11:07.000 Like if it had worked for you,

00:11:08.880 if you'd been working something out

00:11:10.300 and you went to have sex with,

00:11:12.300 you know,

00:11:12.660 One Night Sand

00:11:13.160 or some guy you didn't know

00:11:14.240 and the next day you were like,

00:11:15.420 I feel amazing.

00:11:16.200 That was awesome.

00:11:17.080 Peace out.

00:11:17.960 You wouldn't be having these feelings.

00:11:19.680 But so for those

00:11:20.840 who think that that is the feeling

00:11:22.920 you're going to get,

00:11:24.700 you're sounding a different alarm.

00:11:27.260 Yes, I'm sounding a different alarm,

00:11:29.000 but I'm also,

00:11:29.960 you know,

00:11:30.280 the book I want to write

00:11:32.500 or somehow the essay I want to write

00:11:34.760 because there's a piece out there

00:11:35.980 that anyone can access,

00:11:37.380 which is what I learned

00:11:39.700 from putting nudes online

00:11:40.900 on Playboy.

00:11:42.220 And there's some stuff.

00:11:43.720 I read that piece before I posted

00:11:45.380 I regret being a slut.

00:11:47.200 And I,

00:11:48.260 I,

00:11:48.720 there's still some stuff in there

00:11:50.020 that I don't disagree with

00:11:52.340 in my,

00:11:53.120 in my,

00:11:53.960 what I learned from getting naked online.

00:11:56.360 And there have been moments

00:11:59.080 where I felt like,

00:12:01.560 yeah,

00:12:02.200 you know,

00:12:02.640 empowered by my own sexuality,

00:12:04.960 but it was for the right reasons.

00:12:07.280 It was not because I was,

00:12:10.160 I was weaponizing sex

00:12:14.680 because there's a,

00:12:15.520 there's a whole,

00:12:16.620 you know,

00:12:17.400 there,

00:12:17.800 there's a whole man eater

00:12:19.220 kind of side to my persona

00:12:21.340 that I leaned into pretty hard

00:12:23.100 for a long time.

00:12:24.020 And to I'd be lying

00:12:25.800 if I said that at the time,

00:12:27.780 I didn't think there,

00:12:29.440 there was some fun in that.

00:12:31.100 And it's just that over time,

00:12:33.960 I realized that a lot of that persona,

00:12:36.860 it was like my party girl image

00:12:38.600 that it was just a lie.

00:12:40.760 And at the end of the day,

00:12:42.900 I was feeling pretty empty.

00:12:44.700 So yeah,

00:12:46.580 there's a lot to work out there.

00:12:47.880 And then it's kind of a,

00:12:49.300 there's a lot of,

00:12:51.360 at the time I,

00:12:52.660 I didn't regret it.

00:12:53.880 I would have told you

00:12:54.720 that I was killing.

00:12:57.100 Yeah.

00:12:57.780 And you write in your piece,

00:12:59.040 there's a great line,

00:12:59.900 the culture was right there

00:13:01.000 to pick me up and dust me off.

00:13:03.100 Every time you dealt with

00:13:04.360 what you call the overwhelming shame.

00:13:07.500 And so I doubled down

00:13:08.940 on being a proud slut,

00:13:11.160 a proud slut,

00:13:11.960 part of the divine feminine.

00:13:13.600 And then you write as follows.

00:13:15.060 Oh,

00:13:15.360 this is so good.

00:13:16.600 Such a great writer.

00:13:17.560 You really are.

00:13:18.260 Thank you.

00:13:19.120 You write that the saddest realization

00:13:21.060 is how low I set the bar.

00:13:22.500 A lifetime of allowing myself

00:13:24.700 to be the other woman

00:13:25.680 taken for granted

00:13:26.960 or treated like a doormat

00:13:28.700 under the false pretense

00:13:29.880 of being,

00:13:30.600 quote,

00:13:30.680 empowered,

00:13:31.580 came to a head one night

00:13:32.960 with the arrival

00:13:33.560 of a text message

00:13:34.440 from an on-again,

00:13:35.940 off-again lover.

00:13:37.400 Quote,

00:13:37.960 goodnight, baby.

00:13:38.800 I love you.

00:13:39.320 It said,

00:13:40.140 quickly followed by,

00:13:41.480 quote,

00:13:42.080 wrong person.

00:13:44.100 Rock bottom

00:13:44.800 doesn't always look like

00:13:45.880 losing everything

00:13:46.520 or ending up in jail.

00:13:48.000 Sometimes it can be

00:13:48.840 that sick feeling

00:13:49.720 in your gut

00:13:50.240 when you know

00:13:50.960 emotionally

00:13:51.960 you're done.

00:13:54.440 I was done.

00:13:56.000 I was done.

00:13:56.740 I remember that moment.

00:13:57.860 I remember,

00:13:59.140 it's like I remember

00:14:00.080 when I quit heroin vividly

00:14:01.700 in my mind,

00:14:02.480 that moment,

00:14:03.380 the rock bottom,

00:14:05.200 whatever you want to call it,

00:14:06.400 it's the same kind of moment.

00:14:08.340 I vividly remember

00:14:09.800 walking,

00:14:10.940 he was coming to my place

00:14:12.400 to,

00:14:12.920 I forget why,

00:14:13.760 it wasn't even like

00:14:14.360 a booty call.

00:14:15.080 I forgot why

00:14:15.920 I was coming over

00:14:17.160 and then

00:14:17.620 I had to walk out

00:14:19.900 and like give him something

00:14:21.140 after he came to my place.

00:14:23.480 After this text message,

00:14:24.820 I had to look him in the eye

00:14:26.400 and so it's actually

00:14:28.100 way worse

00:14:28.880 than I actually

00:14:30.800 even express

00:14:31.700 in the piece

00:14:33.400 and I remember

00:14:34.960 walking back

00:14:35.720 into my house

00:14:36.420 feeling so,

00:14:37.680 you know,

00:14:37.900 they say in the 12-step books,

00:14:39.700 pitiful demoralization

00:14:40.900 and that was the feeling

00:14:42.660 that I had.

00:14:43.300 It was just pitiful

00:14:44.280 demoralization

00:14:45.520 and my life changed

00:14:47.640 a lot after that.

00:14:48.700 I just was,

00:14:49.500 I was like,

00:14:50.060 I'm done.

00:14:50.640 I can't do this.

00:14:51.620 I can't pretend

00:14:52.380 that I'm okay

00:14:54.040 being the other woman

00:14:56.580 or that I'm okay

00:14:57.660 just being someone's

00:14:59.100 sex doll,

00:15:00.300 basically

00:15:00.740 and

00:15:02.000 it took a lot

00:15:04.160 of therapy

00:15:04.820 and a long time

00:15:06.460 because there's

00:15:07.380 so much shame.

00:15:08.720 It's just,

00:15:09.680 shame is really hard

00:15:10.940 and I think

00:15:11.780 in women in particular

00:15:12.740 really shows up

00:15:13.620 in our bodies

00:15:14.240 and so

00:15:15.960 there's just

00:15:16.840 so much

00:15:17.540 shame

00:15:18.380 that I had

00:15:18.900 to unpack

00:15:19.360 and try

00:15:20.060 and overcome

00:15:20.500 and it still

00:15:21.180 comes up.

00:15:21.920 I read the piece

00:15:23.580 for YouTube

00:15:23.980 and I hadn't read it

00:15:25.400 since I had written it

00:15:26.260 and I was

00:15:27.340 getting,

00:15:29.180 you know,

00:15:29.420 fighting back tears

00:15:30.380 the whole time.

00:15:31.140 There's still

00:15:31.600 a lot of pain there.

00:15:33.160 Of course.

00:15:34.220 My God.

00:15:34.980 And that was there

00:15:35.840 before and you were

00:15:36.580 trying to heal it.

00:15:37.780 I mean,

00:15:38.020 to a large extent

00:15:39.480 it was all about

00:15:40.120 trying to heal pain

00:15:40.980 and only once

00:15:42.040 you realized

00:15:42.660 which many people

00:15:43.660 don't

00:15:44.060 that that was

00:15:45.260 not a cure

00:15:45.900 that in fact

00:15:47.060 that was an exacerbator

00:15:48.200 did you ultimately

00:15:49.380 come to abandon it

00:15:50.520 and try something else

00:15:51.860 like love

00:15:53.080 and taking care

00:15:54.020 of yourself?

00:15:55.160 I think there's

00:15:55.800 a real body count.

00:15:57.080 You know,

00:15:57.320 I've heard from a lot of

00:15:59.040 one of the emails

00:16:00.120 that I read

00:16:00.800 and in the piece

00:16:02.020 when I read it

00:16:02.740 I talked about

00:16:03.260 some of the responses

00:16:04.080 I had received

00:16:04.740 and one of the emails

00:16:05.560 was from a man

00:16:06.340 who said

00:16:06.860 he had watched

00:16:08.100 his mom

00:16:08.860 deal with a lot

00:16:09.920 of what I dealt with

00:16:10.940 with drugs

00:16:11.740 and alcohol

00:16:12.260 and rotating

00:16:14.220 cast of men

00:16:15.240 and she died

00:16:16.840 of an OD

00:16:17.320 and

00:16:18.100 I always get emotional.

00:16:22.280 Yeah.

00:16:22.520 Yeah.

00:16:24.440 I have a rule though

00:16:25.660 like don't ugly

00:16:26.460 cry on the internet.

00:16:30.120 That's why

00:16:30.700 I can cry

00:16:31.260 on your last podcast

00:16:32.160 because there's no

00:16:33.260 there's no

00:16:34.300 there's no

00:16:34.680 screen.

00:16:35.680 Yeah.

00:16:36.200 I'm like

00:16:36.720 I don't need

00:16:37.620 those screenshots

00:16:38.300 talk about shame.

00:16:40.760 It is hard

00:16:41.700 once it starts to come

00:16:42.740 it's really hard

00:16:43.300 it's like a cough

00:16:44.240 you always have to

00:16:44.980 let it out

00:16:45.380 otherwise it's gonna

00:16:45.860 come out

00:16:46.240 in an ugly way.

00:16:47.800 I know

00:16:48.300 but this

00:16:49.520 I think that

00:16:51.160 there's that expression

00:16:52.460 there but for the

00:16:53.140 grace of God

00:16:53.720 go I

00:16:54.260 and reading

00:16:55.400 these stories

00:16:55.980 from people

00:16:56.500 about what I

00:16:57.540 would say

00:16:58.000 is kind of

00:16:58.540 this body

00:16:59.060 count to

00:16:59.840 the sexual

00:17:00.480 revolution

00:17:01.120 and it

00:17:03.040 could have

00:17:03.220 been me

00:17:03.620 easily could

00:17:05.460 have been me

00:17:05.900 easily

00:17:06.560 easily

00:17:07.200 easily

00:17:08.040 had I not

00:17:09.580 gotten sober

00:17:10.400 it's a miracle

00:17:11.440 I was given

00:17:12.040 the opportunity

00:17:12.720 to get sober

00:17:13.680 because in

00:17:14.400 between

00:17:14.780 getting sober

00:17:16.420 for the first

00:17:16.980 time and getting

00:17:17.820 sober this time

00:17:18.960 I'll have nine

00:17:20.000 years actually

00:17:20.720 in a couple

00:17:21.120 weeks

00:17:21.560 there was

00:17:23.300 15 years

00:17:24.420 there was

00:17:24.860 plenty of

00:17:25.280 time for me

00:17:25.980 to OD

00:17:27.040 or die

00:17:28.440 or worse

00:17:29.680 and there

00:17:31.820 were little

00:17:32.280 moments where

00:17:33.020 I think I was

00:17:33.640 able to pull

00:17:34.140 myself back

00:17:34.940 off the cliff

00:17:35.700 but I'm

00:17:38.640 not really

00:17:39.080 sure why I

00:17:40.280 had that

00:17:40.880 that clarity

00:17:41.660 at those

00:17:42.160 moments.

00:17:42.740 Yes our

00:17:44.520 audience should

00:17:45.520 know that

00:17:46.180 while you

00:17:46.780 had straight

00:17:47.360 A's and

00:17:47.960 were destined

00:17:48.880 to go to

00:17:49.240 Georgetown

00:17:49.600 or some

00:17:51.440 other equally

00:17:53.160 revered school

00:17:54.280 you we've

00:17:55.900 talked about

00:17:56.200 this the last

00:17:56.660 time but

00:17:57.100 you started

00:17:59.160 smoking weed

00:17:59.840 drinking daily

00:18:00.500 at age 12

00:18:01.060 to 13

00:18:01.540 eventually led

00:18:02.260 to heroin

00:18:02.760 and you

00:18:03.860 barely graduated

00:18:04.460 from high

00:18:04.900 school and

00:18:06.200 you wound up

00:18:07.000 getting drugged

00:18:07.780 and raped which

00:18:08.440 we talked

00:18:08.800 about as well

00:18:09.520 the last time

00:18:10.280 and then at

00:18:11.320 19 after high

00:18:12.200 school entered

00:18:12.760 a state funded

00:18:13.420 halfway house

00:18:14.140 in Minneapolis

00:18:15.320 for seven

00:18:15.920 months by that

00:18:16.680 point weighing

00:18:17.240 just 89

00:18:18.280 pounds where

00:18:19.780 you should

00:18:20.120 have been at

00:18:20.720 Georgetown and

00:18:22.020 you were in a

00:18:22.480 halfway house and

00:18:23.360 so it really

00:18:24.560 could have gone

00:18:25.300 a different way

00:18:26.000 for you I

00:18:26.440 mean the fact

00:18:26.900 that you're

00:18:27.200 sitting here

00:18:27.800 telling your

00:18:29.140 story and

00:18:29.900 explaining the

00:18:31.080 revelations you've

00:18:31.920 had is in

00:18:32.600 itself a miracle

00:18:34.240 but it's also a

00:18:35.540 huge gift it's a

00:18:36.560 gift to people who

00:18:37.300 are following on

00:18:38.420 that path without

00:18:39.100 thinking who are

00:18:40.560 dabbling dabbling

00:18:42.040 on that path you

00:18:42.780 know you may

00:18:43.060 have sort of

00:18:43.440 path adjacent

00:18:44.040 people who are

00:18:44.740 like oh that's

00:18:45.240 not me but

00:18:45.700 there's a piece

00:18:46.180 of it that

00:18:46.520 sounds familiar

00:18:47.100 one of the most

00:18:49.520 talked about

00:18:49.980 interviews we did

00:18:50.720 this year was my

00:18:51.580 two-part conversation

00:18:52.620 with Robert F

00:18:54.420 Kennedy jr we

00:18:56.660 bring you some of

00:18:57.300 that stay tuned

00:18:58.480 for this you'll

00:18:58.900 love it next

00:18:59.680 now streaming on

00:19:01.380 paramount plus

00:19:02.320 someone is trying to

00:19:04.160 frame us until our

00:19:05.980 names are cleared

00:19:06.920 we're fugitives from

00:19:08.820 interval like Bonnie

00:19:10.160 and Clyde with better

00:19:11.240 snacks espionage you

00:19:13.840 still as good a shot

00:19:14.780 as you used to be

00:19:15.760 better is their love

00:19:18.340 language we like to

00:19:19.440 walk that fine line

00:19:20.340 between techno thriller

00:19:21.540 and romantic comedy

00:19:23.840 we make up our own

00:19:25.140 rules

00:19:25.620 in episodes 282 and

00:19:35.860 283 we accomplished

00:19:37.760 something few thought

00:19:39.600 was even possible an

00:19:41.000 in-depth interview with

00:19:42.180 Robert F Kennedy jr

00:19:43.580 that tackled all the

00:19:45.420 most controversial

00:19:46.000 topics that remained

00:19:47.400 uncensored on all

00:19:49.900 platforms it was a

00:19:51.920 feat and I am so

00:19:53.800 proud that we were

00:19:54.480 able to do it so much

00:19:55.860 so it was so

00:19:56.500 successful we brought

00:19:57.400 him back on later in

00:19:58.720 the year he knows

00:20:01.000 his facts he is not

00:20:03.460 part of the

00:20:04.400 disinformation dozen

00:20:05.720 as the White House

00:20:06.700 claims he's brilliant

00:20:08.360 and he's devoted his

00:20:09.500 life to helping us

00:20:11.180 clean up our

00:20:11.860 environment and hold

00:20:12.640 bad guys accountable

00:20:13.480 here's part of our

00:20:14.720 conversation on

00:20:15.760 COVID censorship as

00:20:17.800 well as RFK opening

00:20:18.860 up about his wife

00:20:19.860 actress Cheryl Hines

00:20:21.360 and the backlash she

00:20:23.200 faced over

00:20:24.460 him what do you

00:20:26.340 think about the

00:20:26.740 censorship you've

00:20:27.420 endured

00:20:27.880 oh I mean to me

00:20:30.620 Megan that's the

00:20:32.020 most disturbing

00:20:32.780 feature of this

00:20:34.280 you know this kind

00:20:36.560 of bewildering

00:20:37.520 response to COVID

00:20:41.040 that we've seen

00:20:41.760 I you know first of

00:20:43.300 all I want to say

00:20:44.020 this that I'm

00:20:45.040 accused of

00:20:45.980 promoting vaccine

00:20:47.760 misinformation but

00:20:49.000 nobody not

00:20:49.740 Instagram not the

00:20:50.800 White House not

00:20:51.720 anybody else has

00:20:52.720 actually identified

00:20:53.940 a statement that

00:20:56.120 I've made that is

00:20:57.400 incorrect

00:20:57.980 there were no

00:21:00.000 statements on

00:21:00.920 Instagram I didn't

00:21:02.040 even say that you

00:21:03.340 know the virus came

00:21:05.280 from Wuhan I just

00:21:06.180 said it should be

00:21:06.800 investigated because

00:21:07.940 it would be weird if

00:21:09.560 the guy who was

00:21:11.060 financing those

00:21:12.140 experiments and may

00:21:14.000 have created the

00:21:14.660 virus is now running

00:21:16.080 the pandemic response

00:21:17.540 and so these

00:21:18.700 questions should be

00:21:19.540 asked I didn't say

00:21:20.520 it would happen

00:21:21.060 because I couldn't

00:21:21.760 at that point

00:21:22.400 I have not made

00:21:24.840 any inaccurate

00:21:26.260 statements as far as

00:21:27.460 I know if I did

00:21:28.480 make one and it

00:21:29.540 was identified I

00:21:30.440 would immediately

00:21:31.360 apologize and

00:21:32.680 withdraw it

00:21:33.420 Instagram Facebook

00:21:36.540 acknowledges and

00:21:38.960 it uses the term

00:21:40.080 vaccine

00:21:40.680 misinformation as

00:21:41.800 a euphemism for

00:21:42.940 any statement or

00:21:45.080 assertion that

00:21:46.080 departs from

00:21:47.120 government

00:21:47.640 proclamations

00:21:48.580 whether they're

00:21:50.060 factually true or

00:21:50.820 not so my

00:21:52.240 crime was

00:21:53.720 criticizing

00:21:55.340 government

00:21:55.820 policies I'm

00:21:57.400 not it was not

00:21:59.120 passing actual

00:22:00.360 misinformation and

00:22:02.880 that's a problem

00:22:03.640 for our government

00:22:04.260 you know Adams

00:22:05.240 and Madison and

00:22:06.280 Jefferson said we

00:22:07.200 put freedom of

00:22:09.060 speech in the

00:22:09.620 first amendment

00:22:10.300 because all the

00:22:12.820 other rights are

00:22:13.780 dependent on that

00:22:14.560 right and if a

00:22:17.040 government can

00:22:18.420 can silence

00:22:21.100 criticism it has

00:22:22.180 license to commit

00:22:23.180 any atrocity and

00:22:25.240 that's why it's

00:22:26.300 like you know when

00:22:27.120 I was young I

00:22:29.580 supported the ACLU

00:22:31.160 and others who

00:22:32.160 were supporting

00:22:33.140 the right of

00:22:33.800 Nazis to

00:22:36.000 march in

00:22:36.560 Skokie

00:22:37.020 Illinois not

00:22:38.040 because I you

00:22:39.840 know I was I

00:22:41.440 was repulsed by

00:22:42.720 their ideology and

00:22:44.340 by their statements

00:22:45.420 and horrified by

00:22:47.040 them but you know

00:22:48.160 at the same time we

00:22:49.320 need to be able to

00:22:50.400 to be willing to

00:22:51.660 die to protect

00:22:54.280 their right to say

00:22:55.240 those things and

00:22:56.080 that's you know what

00:22:57.040 they understood

00:22:57.760 our ancestors in the

00:23:00.080 American Revolution

00:23:01.200 and that's

00:23:01.900 generations of

00:23:03.460 writers of

00:23:04.720 of politicians

00:23:06.800 of respected

00:23:07.880 leaders have

00:23:08.640 warned against

00:23:10.740 any government

00:23:11.620 that tries to

00:23:12.460 limit speech

00:23:13.240 and now it's

00:23:15.260 very strange

00:23:16.060 we're living in

00:23:16.720 this world where

00:23:17.740 it's become you

00:23:19.760 know it's become

00:23:20.700 okay in my

00:23:21.640 political party I

00:23:22.760 saw a Gallup

00:23:24.860 poll recently it was

00:23:26.040 either Gallup or

00:23:26.740 Rasmussen had said

00:23:29.040 that something like

00:23:30.060 a 70 percent of

00:23:31.080 Democrats support

00:23:32.400 government restricting

00:23:35.500 speech and you

00:23:39.640 know it's almost

00:23:40.520 inexplicable to me

00:23:42.820 that we could be in

00:23:44.980 that place right now

00:23:46.080 I believe my

00:23:47.260 political party was

00:23:48.520 the party that would

00:23:50.700 go to the mat to

00:23:52.060 to you know to

00:23:53.580 protect people's

00:23:54.660 right to say what

00:23:55.540 they want and that's

00:23:56.560 so critical for our

00:23:57.540 democracy and

00:23:58.480 you know it also

00:24:00.240 is critical of

00:24:00.940 public health

00:24:01.520 listen I may be

00:24:03.620 wrong about the

00:24:04.500 things that I talk

00:24:05.480 about but you

00:24:07.780 know why can't we

00:24:08.540 debate them why

00:24:09.580 can't we hear

00:24:10.480 these discussions

00:24:11.280 about masks

00:24:12.500 okay that

00:24:14.100 you know

00:24:14.560 I've sued

00:24:16.380 agencies for

00:24:17.700 40 years

00:24:18.680 are failing to

00:24:19.940 go through a

00:24:20.480 regulatory process

00:24:21.540 that to have an

00:24:22.680 environmental impact

00:24:23.500 where it explains

00:24:24.620 where which has

00:24:26.160 to explain the

00:24:27.300 scientific basis

00:24:28.220 for new

00:24:28.740 regulations or

00:24:30.620 actions show

00:24:32.580 the studies and

00:24:34.240 then do a cost

00:24:35.320 benefit analysis

00:24:36.260 none of that

00:24:37.000 happened it was

00:24:38.800 you know we just

00:24:39.580 suspended democracy

00:24:40.780 we suspended due

00:24:41.900 process and once

00:24:44.360 they got rid of

00:24:45.400 freedom of speech

00:24:47.280 they went after all

00:24:48.500 the other they

00:24:48.980 closed a million

00:24:50.180 churches all the

00:24:52.260 churches in this

00:24:52.900 country for a

00:24:53.560 year with no

00:24:54.580 public hearing

00:24:56.260 no discussion

00:24:57.300 of the science

00:24:57.920 no offering of

00:24:58.940 you know a

00:24:59.760 single side of

00:25:00.700 the study to

00:25:01.360 justify it

00:25:02.320 they shut down

00:25:04.620 a million

00:25:05.020 businesses with

00:25:06.480 no just

00:25:07.140 compensation no

00:25:08.040 due process no

00:25:08.880 just compensation

00:25:09.600 direct violation

00:25:10.800 of our

00:25:11.140 constitution

00:25:11.820 they got rid

00:25:13.560 of the seventh

00:25:14.020 amendment jury

00:25:14.800 trials against

00:25:16.180 any company that

00:25:17.580 says that they're

00:25:18.380 involved in providing

00:25:19.360 a countermeasure

00:25:20.180 if there's a

00:25:20.620 vaccine company

00:25:21.520 and you get

00:25:22.420 injured you have

00:25:23.380 no rights to

00:25:24.360 compensation no

00:25:25.080 matter how

00:25:25.720 grievous your

00:25:27.360 injury no matter

00:25:28.060 how reckless

00:25:28.680 their conduct no

00:25:29.620 matter how

00:25:30.000 negligent their

00:25:30.660 conduct you

00:25:31.360 cannot sue that

00:25:32.340 company and

00:25:33.540 then you know

00:25:34.400 they got rid of

00:25:35.320 the prohibitions

00:25:37.440 against warrantless

00:25:39.620 searches and

00:25:40.220 seizures with all

00:25:41.200 this track and

00:25:42.160 trace surveillance

00:25:43.000 that we now have

00:25:43.780 to give our

00:25:44.120 private information

00:25:45.140 and our private

00:25:46.100 medical records to

00:25:47.280 people to get

00:25:47.880 into a bar to

00:25:48.980 get on an

00:25:49.680 airplane or

00:25:50.460 whatever and

00:25:52.660 you know there

00:25:53.100 is no pandemic

00:25:54.680 exception in the

00:25:55.820 U.S.

00:25:56.240 constitution and

00:25:58.080 by the way it's

00:25:59.140 not because they

00:26:00.040 didn't know about

00:26:00.680 pandemics because

00:26:01.700 there was a

00:26:02.320 smallpox epidemic

00:26:03.840 during the

00:26:05.000 revolution and

00:26:06.320 that paralyzed

00:26:08.300 Washington's army

00:26:09.900 of New England

00:26:10.540 for a couple of

00:26:11.620 months and there

00:26:13.720 was another

00:26:14.280 malaria epidemic

00:26:15.480 that happened to

00:26:16.400 the army of

00:26:16.940 Virginia so they

00:26:18.260 knew very well

00:26:19.260 what epidemics

00:26:20.080 could do and

00:26:20.660 yet they did

00:26:21.340 not say that

00:26:22.560 this document

00:26:23.880 is suspended

00:26:24.580 these rights are

00:26:25.640 suspended whenever

00:26:26.500 there is an

00:26:27.160 epidemic and

00:26:29.560 they you know

00:26:30.140 the disturbing

00:26:30.860 part of this

00:26:32.560 response was

00:26:35.080 that it did not

00:26:35.740 seem to be a

00:26:36.580 public health

00:26:37.080 response at all

00:26:38.000 it was a

00:26:39.000 militarized and

00:26:40.400 monetized response

00:26:41.480 we we did

00:26:42.720 things the

00:26:43.340 opposite of what

00:26:44.360 you would do if

00:26:45.240 you wanted to

00:26:46.120 stop a pandemic

00:26:47.480 and ask

00:26:49.460 yourself and

00:26:51.020 I you know I

00:26:51.700 would ask any of

00:26:52.480 my fellow

00:26:52.900 Democrats who

00:26:53.720 are supporting

00:26:54.280 Tony Fauci

00:26:55.080 what his

00:26:57.400 record is the

00:26:59.860 worst record of

00:27:00.740 any record of any

00:27:02.000 country in the

00:27:02.580 world arguably

00:27:03.480 we have 4.2% of

00:27:06.520 the global

00:27:06.860 population here in

00:27:07.880 the United States

00:27:08.680 and I think we

00:27:09.520 had something like

00:27:10.380 17 or 18%

00:27:11.980 of the global

00:27:13.980 COVID deaths

00:27:14.980 the the the death

00:27:17.820 rate in America

00:27:18.620 was in the top

00:27:19.680 10 in the world

00:27:20.500 so we had

00:27:21.740 2,800 people

00:27:23.860 per million

00:27:24.480 population die

00:27:25.660 the African

00:27:28.160 nations had an

00:27:29.860 average of about

00:27:30.900 200 oh

00:27:32.480 Nigeria had 15

00:27:34.580 people per million

00:27:36.720 population these

00:27:37.520 countries which

00:27:38.400 Tony Fauci and

00:27:39.640 Bill Gates the

00:27:40.340 beginning of the

00:27:40.800 pandemic said it

00:27:41.980 Africa is going

00:27:42.780 to get wiped

00:27:43.260 out they need

00:27:44.420 to get them

00:27:44.840 all vaccines

00:27:45.440 Nigeria has a

00:27:49.180 vaccination rate

00:27:50.180 of 1.5 for

00:27:51.740 one vaccine

00:27:52.580 1.5%

00:27:53.800 wow and they

00:27:55.920 had a COVID

00:27:57.320 death rate that

00:27:58.260 was about 1

00:27:59.200 1500th of our

00:28:01.120 COVID death

00:28:01.840 rate wow

00:28:02.900 and the you

00:28:04.100 know there's

00:28:04.460 reasons Megan

00:28:05.760 for there there's

00:28:07.020 there's reasons

00:28:07.900 for that are

00:28:08.500 non-medical one

00:28:09.480 is that African

00:28:10.420 countries have

00:28:11.100 younger populations

00:28:12.260 and COVID was

00:28:13.400 a disease that

00:28:15.800 killed elderly

00:28:16.300 people but that

00:28:17.240 doesn't explain

00:28:17.980 anywhere near

00:28:19.220 these huge

00:28:21.200 disproportions

00:28:22.120 one of the things

00:28:24.840 that could explain

00:28:25.660 it is that

00:28:26.480 Nigeria has the

00:28:28.620 highest malaria

00:28:30.740 burden in the

00:28:31.520 world

00:28:31.820 oh 27% of

00:28:33.740 malaria cases

00:28:34.540 globally come from

00:28:35.760 that country

00:28:36.420 so everybody in the

00:28:38.200 country is on

00:28:38.860 hydroxychloroquine

00:28:40.420 it also has the

00:28:42.060 highest burden of

00:28:42.880 river blindness a

00:28:44.260 large part of the

00:28:45.160 population is on

00:28:46.200 ivermectin

00:28:47.160 is that what

00:28:48.960 explains the you

00:28:50.960 know this incredible

00:28:52.180 record against

00:28:53.360 COVID well we

00:28:54.600 don't know but

00:28:55.860 shouldn't we be

00:28:56.860 asking that question

00:28:58.000 isn't that the

00:28:59.500 first thing Tony

00:29:00.320 Fauci should be

00:29:01.120 doing is saying

00:29:01.960 why is there this

00:29:03.160 huge delta

00:29:04.100 between COVID

00:29:06.100 death rates and

00:29:07.060 all these different

00:29:07.720 countries and the

00:29:09.100 countries that did

00:29:09.920 worse are the

00:29:10.940 ones that focus on

00:29:11.880 the vaccines

00:29:12.560 and the fact it's

00:29:15.200 not just Fauci as

00:29:16.000 you as you well

00:29:16.540 know big tech has

00:29:17.840 been completely

00:29:18.380 supportive of this

00:29:19.240 shutdown you can't

00:29:20.540 even just hearing you

00:29:21.900 talk about hydroxychloroquine

00:29:23.420 and ivermectin sends

00:29:25.020 just a little piece of

00:29:26.100 my spine up like oh

00:29:27.480 lord this is you know

00:29:28.680 youtube this is where

00:29:30.060 they're going to jump in

00:29:30.700 and try to censor us

00:29:31.480 nothing should be

00:29:32.320 censored here this is a

00:29:33.340 discussion about whether

00:29:34.100 they work should we

00:29:35.160 have discussions about

00:29:36.040 more discussions about

00:29:37.000 that fact um but

00:29:39.640 that's that's what

00:29:40.660 they've done to us

00:29:41.260 because they'll take

00:29:42.320 away your platform as

00:29:43.300 you well know you

00:29:43.880 can't even talk about

00:29:44.980 it they've jumped in

00:29:45.960 on the silencing of

00:29:47.820 discussion and they're

00:29:48.840 the ones who control

00:29:49.500 the public information

00:29:50.380 highway so it's really

00:29:52.880 damaging i i'm in

00:29:54.600 news and to this day

00:29:56.260 i don't know what the

00:29:57.420 truth is on ivermectin

00:29:59.260 and hydroxychloroquine

00:30:00.540 and even talking about it

00:30:02.280 makes even me feel like

00:30:03.820 it's it's insane it's

00:30:06.440 un-american

00:30:07.060 that's right and you

00:30:10.240 know i i would i

00:30:12.900 completely not i can be

00:30:14.520 wrong about anything

00:30:15.520 let's have the debate

00:30:17.220 let's have the discussion

00:30:18.640 you know that our

00:30:20.240 democracy is based on the

00:30:22.040 free flow of information

00:30:23.460 with good notions and good

00:30:28.140 ideas and good arguments

00:30:29.140 triumphing in the

00:30:30.140 marketplace of ideas and

00:30:31.580 none of that stuff is

00:30:32.560 happening and as you

00:30:33.840 point out you know we

00:30:35.060 need to ask ourselves

00:30:36.220 qui bono who is

00:30:37.840 benefiting from this

00:30:38.920 clearly the pharmaceutical

00:30:39.980 companies but also the

00:30:42.620 big tech platforms are

00:30:44.000 and they you know there

00:30:45.800 has been this has been a

00:30:47.220 war against the poor if

00:30:49.140 you look at you know

00:30:50.280 black neighborhoods

00:30:52.360 compton harlem had two or

00:30:55.760 three times the death

00:30:56.640 rates at bel air or

00:30:57.860 greenwich and you know

00:31:00.360 you had the the schools

00:31:02.460 closed in those

00:31:03.440 neighborhoods according to

00:31:04.380 the brown university

00:31:05.320 study children lost 22

00:31:07.280 iq points during young

00:31:09.100 children during the

00:31:11.280 pandemic and you know and

00:31:13.760 there the mental illness

00:31:14.940 went off the roof i think

00:31:16.440 51 percent of black

00:31:17.800 children had suicidal

00:31:19.260 ideation you had the

00:31:21.660 police going to those

00:31:22.680 neighborhoods and close

00:31:24.280 down the um you know the

00:31:26.380 basketball courts yep and

00:31:29.180 and who benefited from all

00:31:31.200 of this it was the they

00:31:32.860 you know the internet

00:31:33.920 platforms it was jeff

00:31:35.240 zuckerberg uh bill gates

00:31:37.120 um sergey brand larry

00:31:40.780 ellison uh jeff bezos etc

00:31:43.740 these there's been a there

00:31:45.740 was a transfer of wealth the

00:31:47.400 biggest in history arguably

00:31:48.920 3.8 trillion dollars from

00:31:52.960 the global poor and from

00:31:55.420 working people to this new

00:31:58.700 class of all of our

00:31:59.940 billionaires and the same

00:32:02.620 people who were benefiting

00:32:04.040 were the ones who now

00:32:05.660 control our communications

00:32:07.020 of facebook and all these

00:32:08.880 platforms and they were

00:32:11.200 using their control to

00:32:14.200 suppress and to censor any

00:32:17.180 criticism of the government

00:32:18.980 lockdowns that were making

00:32:20.340 them even richer and there's

00:32:22.460 something really wrong with

00:32:23.700 that and the government was

00:32:25.820 allied with them and telling

00:32:27.680 them what to censor and

00:32:28.860 whatnot we have

00:32:31.220 correspondence between

00:32:32.900 zuckerberg and tony

00:32:34.080 fauci telling him about

00:32:36.840 censoring people like me

00:32:38.420 oh it's not you know and i

00:32:41.240 again i there's nothing i'd

00:32:43.300 like more than to debate

00:32:44.360 tony fauci or any of these

00:32:45.820 people oh i'd buy a ticket to

00:32:47.740 that what i would buy a ticket

00:32:50.400 to that listen i it's not

00:32:55.580 just suppression that's what's

00:32:56.800 scary it's also demonization

00:32:58.500 ostracization it's smearing

00:33:01.580 right and we've seen in the

00:33:03.040 fauci papers that have been

00:33:04.320 collected by places like the

00:33:05.840 intercept that's his mo that

00:33:07.520 that's they intentionally

00:33:08.680 smeared several scientists and

00:33:10.960 so on who weren't following

00:33:12.100 the fauci line they've

00:33:13.500 definitely smeared you and

00:33:14.700 some of the doctors that you

00:33:15.640 just mentioned and tried to

00:33:17.240 create this you know they're

00:33:18.740 freaks they're they're

00:33:19.720 disinformationists you know

00:33:21.320 that's that's by design they

00:33:22.860 don't want people listening

00:33:23.740 to you and i i i wonder i

00:33:27.720 was thinking about it because

00:33:28.660 um you know the the freedom

00:33:30.560 rally that you went to that

00:33:31.780 was anti-mandate and i've

00:33:33.360 anti-mandate too i am pro

00:33:35.800 vaccine for the for the

00:33:37.000 record you probably gathered

00:33:38.000 that oh my yeah but i really

00:33:41.420 am um but i like the i liked i

00:33:44.560 loved the anti-mandate rally and

00:33:47.180 uh those who organized and i

00:33:48.360 thought it was great so you

00:33:49.220 got in trouble when you were

00:33:50.000 there you i mean i got your

00:33:52.220 overall point people get upset

00:33:53.340 when you compare anything to

00:33:54.720 the holocaust um but you were

00:33:56.640 basically saying i don't know

00:33:57.640 have in front of me just so so

00:33:59.000 i don't get it wrong but it

00:33:59.980 was um uh even in hitler's

00:34:02.800 germany you could cross the

00:34:04.000 alps into switzerland you

00:34:05.100 could hide in the attic like

00:34:06.320 and frank did today today the

00:34:08.260 mechanisms are being put in

00:34:09.340 place that will make it so none

00:34:10.440 of us can run none of us can

00:34:11.840 hide well all hell rained down

00:34:14.220 on you i mean when the

00:34:15.100 auschwitz memorial is

00:34:16.460 responding to you on twitter you

00:34:18.020 know you've stepped in it they

00:34:19.620 came out and said it was it's a

00:34:20.840 sad symptom of moral and

00:34:21.920 intellectual decay so those

00:34:23.500 people don't like you um and

00:34:25.440 some of them don't like you for

00:34:26.440 political reasons but what did

00:34:27.980 you make of your wife cheryl

00:34:29.140 heinz who by the way i did not

00:34:30.160 realize you were married to the

00:34:31.200 wonderful cheryl heinz of curb your

00:34:32.920 enthusiasm um she came out she

00:34:35.600 gave it to you too she gave it to

00:34:36.880 you right between the eyes and

00:34:38.040 said um his we should not be

00:34:41.120 comparing the holocaust to

00:34:42.340 anything or anyone his opinions

00:34:43.780 are not a reflection of my own

00:34:44.980 and uh his reference to ann

00:34:46.680 frank was reprehensible and

00:34:47.900 insensitive so

00:34:48.760 i know you said you were sorry

00:34:51.480 for that comment but what did you

00:34:52.520 make of it

00:34:52.980 yeah well let me let me get to

00:34:55.600 my wife in a minute and just

00:34:57.860 make a couple of comments on that

00:34:59.720 number one i regret making that

00:35:02.020 analogy

00:35:02.800 number two i was not comparing

00:35:05.280 covid policies to the holocaust i

00:35:07.760 never mentioned the holocaust

00:35:09.060 um i was making a point i i was

00:35:13.000 comparing a number of

00:35:14.880 totalitarian regimes left wing and

00:35:17.880 right wing so on that same i think

00:35:20.000 earlier in that sentence or later i

00:35:21.800 talked about the communist regime of

00:35:24.060 each germany and that all of these

00:35:26.660 totalitarian regimes have similar

00:35:28.620 features

00:35:29.260 and similar intentions which is to

00:35:32.120 control every aspect of human

00:35:33.580 behavior

00:35:34.100 and my point is that none of them

00:35:37.420 have been able to do that in the

00:35:38.620 history

00:35:38.940 that um that today however because

00:35:42.700 of these new uh technologies

00:35:44.860 technologies like 5g which allows

00:35:48.440 mass um uh harvest of data and

00:35:52.040 very very intense surveillance

00:35:53.880 satellite 415 000 satellite low

00:35:58.420 altitude satellites that are going to

00:36:00.620 be able to look at every square inch

00:36:02.320 of the earth

00:36:02.760 everyday facial recognition systems

00:36:05.440 we now have these ai systems that

00:36:07.940 can look through walls and see

00:36:09.620 people where they're hiding in

00:36:10.760 buildings

00:36:11.160 we have vaccine passports which is a

00:36:16.020 way of social control digital

00:36:18.500 currencies we saw what they did to the

00:36:20.820 truckers in in canada where they

00:36:24.240 closed their bank accounts and you

00:36:26.180 know denied the money there's all

00:36:28.860 these new instrumentalities that make

00:36:31.380 the the rising the emergence of

00:36:33.720 total it's what i call turnkey

00:36:35.340 totalitarianism where they they're

00:36:37.280 putting in place all of these

00:36:38.920 instrumentalities now or they're

00:36:40.800 they're they are getting put in

00:36:42.740 place let me use the passive voice

00:36:44.660 and it's going to give people who have

00:36:48.500 those kind of an ambit ambitions a

00:36:50.940 level of control over every aspect of

00:36:53.120 our lives and makes dissent and

00:36:55.620 resistance almost impossible that's

00:36:57.700 the point i was going to make i made a

00:37:00.440 big mistake by making any reference to

00:37:05.400 nazi germany because of the

00:37:08.760 sensitivities and because i know that

00:37:10.720 what i say is going to be distorted by

00:37:13.880 people who want to silence yeah and

00:37:16.440 that you know i need to understand that

00:37:18.580 and i need to be careful in what i say

00:37:21.580 because there are people who are of

00:37:23.080 sensitivities about that epic in

00:37:25.560 history that are legitimate that are

00:37:29.140 um you know that are horrific oh and

00:37:34.000 you know i apologize because i don't

00:37:36.040 want to hurt anybody i have no you know

00:37:38.680 desire to hurt anybody i would say this

00:37:41.960 and i do think that we need to find

00:37:45.900 ways to be able to talk about our

00:37:48.220 history because if we can't talk about

00:37:52.020 you know the and the history of the

00:37:54.660 rise of the third like

00:37:56.040 did not begin with death camps death

00:37:59.480 camps didn't come till 1941

00:38:01.260 um there was a whole system of

00:38:06.940 totalitarian controls that were put in

00:38:09.060 place

00:38:09.640 and there were alchemies of

00:38:12.020 demagoguery that were used that are

00:38:14.180 common to all totalitarian systems

00:38:16.280 over that 12-year period in which

00:38:19.640 certain groups of people and

00:38:21.260 particularly jews and poles and gypsies

00:38:23.760 or rama people etc

00:38:25.080 were systematically dehumanized

00:38:29.100 and robbed of their rights

00:38:31.220 and it was a 12-year process and we

00:38:34.920 need to

00:38:35.920 at some time we need to figure out ways

00:38:40.440 to be able to talk about that process

00:38:44.040 without offending people

00:38:45.340 that's what that's what gina carano got

00:38:47.060 fired from abc for from disney

00:38:49.780 for trying to talk about that

00:38:51.600 tricky area and i should have known

00:38:53.800 better to stay the hell away from it

00:38:55.900 because

00:38:56.380 it's just there's no winning for me

00:38:59.520 people cannot hear my words they're

00:39:01.520 going to hear

00:39:02.280 from their feelings and their hearts

00:39:05.400 and they're entitled to those feelings

00:39:07.280 yes but you know when your spouse is on

00:39:09.660 the side of the other people you know

00:39:11.680 you've done wrong right because your

00:39:13.100 spouse is rooting for you

00:39:14.300 i want to say this i um you know i

00:39:18.660 encouraged cheryl to

00:39:20.160 publish that statement in fact

00:39:22.380 i asked her to do a statement that was

00:39:25.040 much tougher than that

00:39:26.380 really

00:39:26.860 which

00:39:28.300 yes because

00:39:30.020 and i'm glad she didn't

00:39:32.780 i'm very glad she didn't

00:39:34.360 but um i actually gave her language

00:39:37.300 that was much much tougher than that

00:39:39.120 because

00:39:39.460 she needed to distance herself from me

00:39:42.200 i my job at her husband is to protect

00:39:44.960 her and

00:39:45.920 the the arrows and the bullets that

00:39:49.260 were being slung at me were hitting her

00:39:51.580 she was you know getting tremendous blow

00:39:55.080 back from her friends from her industry

00:39:58.480 from others and it was uh it was a

00:40:03.280 terrible experience for me and she you

00:40:06.280 know by the way what she said she

00:40:09.300 believed so she wasn't saying something

00:40:11.460 you know she is uh she does not

00:40:15.420 accept all of the things that you know

00:40:20.720 that i believe about about what's

00:40:23.840 happening with the vaccines and the

00:40:25.520 medical department now we don't

00:40:26.700 yeah you don't speak for her

00:40:27.680 what yeah i got it yeah

00:40:31.040 i don't need to convert her and i don't

00:40:33.920 need her to

00:40:34.940 you know to be i i don't want her to

00:40:38.780 she started reading my book she read

00:40:40.560 all my other books

00:40:41.680 and she started reading that book and

00:40:44.540 she got on fauci and she had just

00:40:46.560 made her depressed to read that you

00:40:48.880 know she has an idealism and

00:40:51.020 and a um and just a gentle heart and to

00:40:56.940 read you know about these injuries to

00:40:59.280 children and to read the government

00:41:01.400 officials

00:41:02.120 that are charged with protecting our

00:41:05.560 health or compromise and corrupt that

00:41:07.880 it just

00:41:08.500 it it was um

00:41:11.360 it was it was making her soul with her

00:41:16.640 and i said to her you guys you get it you

00:41:19.320 don't have to read that book and you

00:41:21.180 should stop reading it because

00:41:22.600 let me just tell you something about

00:41:25.500 about um cheryl

00:41:27.500 she she is literally the best human

00:41:31.180 being that i've ever met and when i you

00:41:33.420 know i met her through larry david and

00:41:36.140 larry brought her who was my friend

00:41:38.320 and larry brought her in 2002 to go

00:41:44.220 skiing at a ski event i did up in

00:41:46.660 banff in british columbia she was

00:41:48.940 married then and i was married then and

00:41:51.700 then she came back in 2011 and both of us

00:41:56.860 were separated and i you know i got a

00:42:00.700 crush on her on that weekend so i knew i

00:42:03.340 wanted to date her and i went but i also

00:42:07.120 knew that you know i went to basically

00:42:11.060 to ask larry's permission because larry

00:42:13.260 has a lot of rules that you know are not

00:42:15.580 written down anywhere but a lot of men

00:42:18.160 understand them and one of them was i

00:42:21.480 know that even though it was his tv wife

00:42:23.760 that you know that it was i i needed to

00:42:27.500 get you know square with him before i

00:42:30.300 might have been crossing a boundary i got

00:42:32.200 it exactly so i went met him at the

00:42:35.020 carlisle hotel around 11 o'clock at

00:42:37.160 night i went up to his room

00:42:38.380 and sat down with him i had it was like

00:42:41.780 asking her parents to date although you

00:42:44.140 know he's my age and i and he i said

00:42:47.400 what do you think of that and he said he

00:42:49.220 said she is the best person human being

00:42:51.220 i've ever met

00:42:51.860 and he said she's the only person in this

00:42:55.640 industry that is universally beloved she

00:42:59.220 doesn't have a single enemy and she has a

00:43:02.540 level of professionalism she's never late

00:43:04.780 for an appointment she always knows her

00:43:07.240 line she does what she's supposed to do

00:43:09.480 and she's really you know cheryl came from

00:43:12.560 total poverty and she was born in north

00:43:15.820 florida her father lived in a trailer in

00:43:18.900 frostbrew florida cheryl slept in the same

00:43:22.980 bed with her mother till she left high school

00:43:25.000 she came out she paid for her own way

00:43:28.300 through college she put her way through

00:43:29.780 waitressing

00:43:30.580 and working as a joke teller on a telephone

00:43:34.980 line and then she came out here in a you

00:43:39.340 know toyota turd cell with a hundred thousand

00:43:41.860 miles on it and her work for 15 years as a

00:43:46.440 as a bartender and as a personal assistant

00:43:49.700 before she finally got a break which you know

00:43:52.960 she was working at the ground lanes and

00:43:54.820 doing um improv but she didn't get a break

00:43:59.820 in the industry until she got that job at

00:44:02.880 curber enthusiasm where they were looking

00:44:04.740 for somebody who was an unknown actress and

00:44:07.560 you know then her career took off she

00:44:09.700 directs films and she has an incredible

00:44:12.880 career that she put together single-handedly

00:44:15.360 and the idea that my activities

00:44:20.120 the jeopardizing this thing that this

00:44:24.380 incredible person put together was just

00:44:27.580 like i felt like my job is to protect her and

00:44:31.880 i was doing the opposite of my job so my

00:44:35.120 heart was breaking and i was um you know i

00:44:41.620 would have taken any blow to make sure that

00:44:45.740 she could distance herself um you know yes my

00:44:50.040 grandpa you know my my parents were all really

00:44:52.960 good friends with leading figures that time who

00:44:56.600 had been terrible enemies of my grandfather

00:44:58.840 and my grandfather used to always say i don't

00:45:02.640 want my enemies to be my children's enemies

00:45:05.040 they can pick their own fights but they don't need to

00:45:08.640 fight mine and i don't want them to and i feel that way

00:45:11.740 about my family too i you know i chose this life

00:45:15.480 i chose this you know crusade

00:45:18.980 and i they need to figure out their own way my

00:45:22.560 children and other members of my family have other

00:45:25.420 things to do they're all doing valuable stuff

00:45:27.840 when we come back part of my conversation with

00:45:31.340 mega best-selling author malcolm gladwell

00:45:34.500 each time malcolm gladwell comes on the show it's one of the most

00:45:40.380 downloaded shows of the year gosh he's interesting he's so

00:45:44.680 interesting here gladwell opens up about a

00:45:47.220 topic he rarely discusses fatherhood you can certainly

00:45:52.080 teach manners you can teach ethics you can teach what's

00:45:56.380 acceptable behavior and you know a polite society but you

00:45:59.820 can't change nature you can't change one's nature you

00:46:03.320 know like the kid who's huge energy and can't sit down is

00:46:07.120 constantly going and going and going you're never going to

00:46:10.160 turn that kid into low energy you know and and vice versa you

00:46:15.260 know the kid who's relaxed like it's better to lean into the

00:46:19.360 nature that comes to you and help that kid figure out how

00:46:22.400 they can make the most of that particular makeup

00:46:25.200 yeah yeah i agree yeah it's so funny you know that as a i'm a

00:46:30.280 first-time parent so all of this stuff that i you know i used

00:46:34.300 to kind of like you know wave my hands in the air and

00:46:36.680 pretend that i knew what i was talking about when it came to

00:46:39.440 parenting issues now i'm actually doing it for the first time

00:46:43.080 it's it's been quite a series of revelations

00:46:47.020 how old is she malcolm she's like a year just about a year yeah

00:46:50.900 uh so how about to about to walk how has that how's that been for

00:46:56.520 you because it can be overwhelming oh it's been fantastic i mean she's

00:47:00.620 delightful so i think i think we got lucky um but uh but i mean i

00:47:05.900 think all parents think their children are delightful

00:47:07.840 but um they don't that's not true

00:47:09.840 i hope your kids aren't listening

00:47:13.360 i mean like periods of delight but not maybe not universally delightful

00:47:18.060 no it's just been i mean i the the thing that goes that i've been going

00:47:25.000 through is the thing that every parent goes through which is

00:47:27.040 you discover all these things and you think oh i'm you know i've discovered

00:47:30.360 some previously unknown truth about

00:47:32.720 parenting and of course everyone else went through exactly the same

00:47:37.420 revelation right so you know the the big revelation that oh

00:47:41.880 even at a year i kind of can tell how this little creature is going to turn

00:47:47.800 out right like yes that's so weird that there's

00:47:50.960 something essential already there right that that's kind of so true all three

00:47:54.800 of mine have the same personality now that they did when they were one year

00:47:57.840 old you could you could definitely project it

00:47:59.700 and i don't know and it's not even necessarily like oh this one's doug

00:48:03.400 or this one's me you know it's not that either like they come

00:48:06.740 fully formed with a totally different nature personality you know they say that

00:48:12.340 kids inherit mannerisms but they don't inherit personalities in in most cases so

00:48:18.300 it's like you may be dealing with something that's totally unfamiliar to you

00:48:21.320 i'm already bracing for it so where are you living are you in still in new

00:48:27.960 york city i live upstate uh okay uh we moved up actually before covid uh and

00:48:34.780 then um uh that's from my uh i work out of uh uh upstate and

00:48:40.840 yeah i sort of we've we've relocated those are my people upstate new york

00:48:45.420 that's where i'm from first 10 years in syracuse and the rest in albany

00:48:47.720 so i know that area well it's very beautiful upstate new york doesn't get

00:48:50.880 enough credit for how gorgeous it is having spent a lot of time in the in the

00:48:54.160 beautiful montana i feel like i can speak to this it's truly one of the most

00:48:57.400 beautiful states in the u i had not realized you started out in syracuse

00:49:01.480 first 10 years my dad taught at the university there and then he took a job

00:49:07.380 at suny albany so we moved to the tundra farther east of albany new york i've

00:49:13.880 only lived in frigidly cold cities uh except for like the year i did in

00:49:18.600 virginia yeah yeah oh that's funny i didn't know

00:49:21.540 that so what's the now at the risk of probing too far into your personal life

00:49:26.620 are you is there a is there a spouse or a partner is that do i get to know like

00:49:31.140 what the family situation looks like yes there is yes there is absolutely uh but

00:49:37.240 uh no you're not getting any more information that she's very she's very

00:49:41.100 private so i think i i will respect that in a moment

00:49:44.280 and but are you you guys are together and raising your baby together

00:49:47.840 yes oh yeah and it's nuclear family well seriously thank god because it's a lot

00:49:55.680 easier when you're on your own and a lot of people do it by choice now but a lot

00:49:59.800 of people do it because a tragedy struck it's i don't understand how those single

00:50:03.820 parents do it i have such respect for them because it is so much work so much

00:50:09.100 work and you do have a lot of responsibility and so the the thought to just

00:50:11.740 round it out that perhaps not everything that's going to happen with this

00:50:15.220 child is actually on you you know perhaps if they're high strung they're just

00:50:20.180 going to be high strung or if they're i don't know like not that like whatever

00:50:24.460 it is whatever thing you're beating yourself up on that you need to change

00:50:27.860 you need to change maybe you don't maybe you just need a lot of support

00:50:30.600 well it reminds me you know when i was in my 30s i used to go to and see a

00:50:35.340 therapist and of course they therapists do this therapist did what

00:50:39.220 therapists like to do which is to invite you to blame all of your problems on

00:50:43.440 your parents and it's it's awfully kind of enticing to do that because it's a

00:50:49.280 convenient explanation for all the things you don't want to take

00:50:51.680 responsibility for but now that i'm actually a parent i sort of see how hollow

00:50:56.420 that is like it was really unfair for me to blame things on my parents at that

00:51:03.040 age for not just me and i was gonna say i was thinking about my own magic wand

00:51:07.280 experience experiment like what would i do i'm not a scientist but i talk a lot

00:51:11.560 on the show about how it's somewhat facetiously that you need it your kids

00:51:16.780 need to be somewhat damaged in order to be successful this is my own personal

00:51:20.900 hypothesis that if everything's too perfect they're probably not going to be that

00:51:25.520 successful there's something needs to be in order to create drive in a in a

00:51:29.660 human being something they need to overcome or feel like they got to do better

00:51:34.480 on and so to me i like if i could do the magic wand i'd i'd have a version where

00:51:39.820 you know trying to figure out how much damage is the right amount like you don't

00:51:45.420 want to crush them but you want to create a couple of issues that they need to

00:51:50.120 overcome this is why no one's hiring me to work in a lab coming up we dig into the

00:51:57.340 perilous world of social media with tristan harris

00:52:01.720 one of the truly eye-opening and terrifying conversations i had this year was with tristan

00:52:10.640 harris in episode 244 remember him he was a facebook whistleblower and was part of the

00:52:16.160 social dilemma we talked about social media addiction and much more on the other side of

00:52:22.200 the screen it's almost as if they have this avatar voodoo doll like model of us all of the

00:52:29.000 things we've ever done all the clicks we've ever made all the videos we've watched all the likes

00:52:32.680 that all gets brought back into building a more and more accurate model the model once you have it

00:52:39.160 you can predict the kinds of things that person does where you're gonna go i can predict what kind

00:52:44.160 of videos will keep you watching i can predict what kinds of emotions tend to trigger you at a lot of

00:52:49.260 these technology companies there's three main goals there's the engagement goal to drive up your

00:52:54.320 usage to keep you scrolling there's the growth goal to keep you coming back and inviting as many friends

00:53:00.640 and getting them to invite more friends and then there's the advertising goal to make sure that as

00:53:05.160 all that's happening we're making as much money as possible from advertising each of these goals

00:53:11.260 are powered by algorithms whose job is to figure out what to show you to keep those numbers going up

00:53:16.860 hmm it's chilling and i love little pete campbell from mad men in the background is the guy

00:53:22.240 computers um but it's so it's not in fact like the algorithm is effectively the three people in that

00:53:29.640 room it's not actual humans standing there right it's like they figured out algorithms that can figure

00:53:34.160 everything out in an instant well you see google and facebook figured out how to clone pete campbell

00:53:39.420 the advertising guy and just sit him inside of the google no i'm kidding i'm just kidding

00:53:42.840 um no i think people looked at this metaphor so in in the film in the social dilemma which i really

00:53:48.580 recommend everyone watches it was the second most popular documentary i think in netflix history won

00:53:52.900 two emmy awards and it really just lays this out in a way that i think everybody on all political

00:53:57.820 sides can kind of understand as well um and and what we talk about in the film is as you said megan

00:54:02.580 is that um you know behind the screen you know there's you there's this piece of glass and when you

00:54:08.100 scroll up with your finger right there's a there's gonna be another rectangle that comes up next

00:54:12.580 do you think that that rectangle that comes up next is just the next thing that one of your

00:54:17.520 friends posted no what they do is they fork it off to that supercomputer um which is that pete

00:54:24.420 campbell character and that character which is like you said you know character embodiment it's not

00:54:29.500 actually like that it's just a computer and it's calculating a number and it looks at every possible

00:54:33.840 thing it could show you next like within the space of things it could show you it could show you

00:54:37.400 something that'll outrage you politically it'll show you something that'll your ex-boyfriend or your

00:54:42.520 ex-girlfriend because that's what you clicked on last time um it can show you a live video because

00:54:46.700 facebook wants to like dial up that live video um it tries to calculate which thing would be most

00:54:53.060 likely to keep you scrolling because obviously it doesn't want to show you the thing that'll stop you

00:54:56.680 from scrolling and it's a supercomputer pointed at your brain to figure out how to basically light up

00:55:02.320 your nervous system and the voodoo doll idea one of the reasons we use that metaphor is that if i

00:55:07.580 talk about hey megan you know they have your data they have your data and and that that where does

00:55:12.320 that hurt you if you think about just as a person like there you are you hear that phrase

00:55:15.520 they have my data it doesn't feel like what's the problem with that but if i say look that data is

00:55:20.600 being used to assemble a model of you a more and more accurate model that can be used to predict

00:55:25.520 things about you and it gets more accurate the more information they have but it's like a voodoo doll

00:55:29.800 so all the clicks you've ever made that puts little hair on the voodoo doll so it's a little bit

00:55:33.040 more accurate when i prick and try to figure out what would activate the voodoo doll if all the likes

00:55:37.340 all the watch time and all the videos you've ever made um that also makes the voodoo doll more accurate

00:55:41.820 adds little shirts and pants in the voodoo doll but then what the point is that as that data gets more

00:55:46.440 and more accurate over time and it looks at a hundred other people who saw those same political

00:55:51.240 you know enragement videos that you've seen and it says well for people just like you this is the

00:55:56.500 thing that tends to keep them scrolling watching clicking commenting because all of that activity

00:56:02.060 is engagement it's attention it's the thing that's sort of the parasite that that you know makes

00:56:06.860 these companies worth trillions of dollars um and that's essentially the system that we're in but

00:56:11.460 the problem is that it leads to basically all of these negative externalities that dumped onto the

00:56:17.140 balance sheet of society we have shortening of attention spans we have more political polarization

00:56:21.760 because affirmation is more profitable than information so giving us more confirmation bias of

00:56:27.020 our existing tribal beliefs and why the other side is so bad obviously this trend existed

00:56:31.920 in other kinds of media but now you have a supercomputer that's like literally you know

00:56:36.260 figuring out this is the next fault line in society and these keywords emerge and whether

00:56:40.280 it's mrna or masks or vaccines or um you know no matter what it is it finds the one that works

00:56:45.860 on buckets of users just like you and it knows that you're going to click before you know you're

00:56:50.020 going to click and i think some people hear that and they think that sounds like a conspiracy

00:56:53.380 theory like technology knows us better than we know ourselves but um you've all harari the author

00:56:58.880 of sapiens is a friend of mine he's gay and he jokes that you know his partner uh it's sick when

00:57:03.980 he uses tiktok it only took it's sick you know one or two clicks for tiktok to figure out exactly

00:57:08.780 which rabbit hole to send his partner it's sick down um and and that's the thing about all of us is it

00:57:13.440 knows exactly what works but the problem is what works on us isn't the same thing as what's good

00:57:18.220 for society or for us even or for us and that's why i mean honestly twitter came out with a thing

00:57:25.260 uh i don't know if they do it every year or whatever but they just popped up in the in this

00:57:29.060 in the feed um this is how many conservative sites you follow this is how many liberal sites you follow

00:57:36.220 and it just sort of volunteered uh you know your information and on mine i was i was very pleased that

00:57:41.220 i had a 51 49 percent ratio on my income incoming you know news and and people i follow and that's

00:57:47.340 important so it just makes me a little less easy to manipulate in the information game because you're

00:57:52.560 definitely getting you're getting propaganda from both sides but at least i mean it's propaganda but

00:57:57.760 at least you're getting it from both sides you're a little less easy to manipulate right so that that's

00:58:01.560 one step that definitely i mean that's i actually had not seen that specific feature from twitter it's

00:58:06.000 obviously better for each of us to maintain more broad you know information diets but the second

00:58:10.920 problem megan is that the the business model is we think of it like a parallel system of incentives

00:58:16.400 to capitalism instead of getting paid in money you get paid in more likes more views more attention

00:58:21.220 more comments and when you say something that basically outgroups the other side and say here's

00:58:26.680 yet another example about why the other side is awful we'll pay you more likes more followers

00:58:31.500 because that was better for generating engagement for the machine now no one at twitter or facebook

00:58:37.260 has a big long mustache and they're twirling it saying gosh how can you create the next civil war

00:58:41.440 and and and you know drive this up as much as possible um but that's the inadvertent side effect

00:58:47.200 of a machine that's values blind all it knows is what increases people's likes followers and get them

00:58:52.700 to invite more people um and and the problem is that those things tend to be conflict so even if you

00:58:57.360 have a broad diet and you're looking at information from both sides quote unquote information what it

00:59:02.260 really is is basically people you know shit posting on the other side and building on the boogeyman so

00:59:07.620 whatever your boogeyman is for you like oh they're doing you know this next in my hometown it now you

00:59:13.980 can sort of carry that to the worst next conclusion you can find evidence for every stereotype and in

00:59:18.680 fact one of the groups that that we uh interviewed we have a podcast called called urine divided

00:59:22.660 attention uh we interviewed uh dan valone who runs more in common and what it really shows is that we

00:59:29.080 completely see the other side in stereotypes if you ask um democrats estimate um what percent of

00:59:35.620 republicans make more than 250 000 a year they think more than a third of republicans make more than

00:59:41.100 250 000 i think the answer is more like two percent if you ask republicans what percent of democrats are

00:59:46.440 lgbtq you know uh and and they they'll estimate more than the third of democrats are lgbtq the actual

00:59:52.260 answer is six percent if you ask um democrats what you know um to estimate what percent of

00:59:57.560 republicans do they believe uh still believe racism is a problem in the united states they think less

01:00:01.960 than 25 percent of republicans would believe that racism is still a problem the actual answer is

01:00:06.700 something like 70 percent and so we're seeing ourselves with stereotypes and the second thing they

01:00:11.560 found is the more you use social media the worse you are at predicting what the other side believes

01:00:16.840 not the better because the extreme voices on social media participate more often than the the the silent

01:00:23.900 sort of you know calm moderate majority right like the calm moderate people they don't they don't

01:00:29.120 actually say that much so that's really the problem that we're dealing with when we look at our

01:00:32.840 you know our polarization ecosystem wow this is reminding me that when we closed out the year

01:00:38.020 we went to christmas break the last piece i did was on um democrats and you know a lot i have a lot

01:00:44.120 of republican listeners i have some democrats too mostly people people in the center but it was a

01:00:48.240 reminder that you know the people who are trying to get everybody canceled and so on they don't

01:00:52.500 represent all of the left and that it's not quote the left that is the enemy of reason it's like

01:00:58.040 activists who are pushing agendas yes we can fight on that but remember your neighbor who's a democrat

01:01:02.920 is not your is not your enemy if you're a republican and is not necessarily against the things that

01:01:07.020 you're against as well you tell me trust and i when i read them in the news i'm like well that's

01:01:12.380 very china right to sort of the big hand of government now controls but i was also like

01:01:15.840 hey china for the first time in my life i was like you know what maybe we should consider the chinese

01:01:21.560 way yeah well so i was meeting with a um a senator who's deep in the foreign policy world and he was

01:01:28.400 meeting with his counterpart in the eu who said um you know who does china consider to be the the

01:01:34.480 largest threat to its national security who's its biggest geopolitical rival and of course you would say

01:01:40.020 the united states right you would think that's the answer they said no they consider their own

01:01:46.060 technology companies to be the biggest rival to the ccp the chinese communist party's power

01:01:51.420 now why is that because the technology that runs their society is really the new source of power right

01:01:58.140 it's controlling what kids are feeling thinking and believing it controls their identity their

01:02:02.300 educational development it controls uh loans that get made jack ma alibaba so they're going after

01:02:07.960 their billionaires they're doing all these things but they're really realizing that technology is the

01:02:12.480 power structure it's the brain implant that is guiding their society now i'm not trying to idealize

01:02:18.160 it now but here's a couple things that you were mentioning that they're doing to deal with the

01:02:21.700 problems of the social dilemma so let me give you a couple examples um one of the things they do

01:02:26.660 is on tiktok their version of it called doyen when you're scrolling tiktok um if you're under the age

01:02:32.780 of 14 you can only use it until 10 p.m at night and then it's closing hours it opens again at six

01:02:38.180 in the morning um they actually limit you to 40 minutes a day and when you scroll instead of showing

01:02:43.260 you videos of the best influencers they show you science experiments museum exhibits patriotism videos

01:02:49.000 because they realize that tiktok is conditioning kids behavior and now i'm not saying that we should be

01:02:55.340 doing pledge of allegiance videos to the united states on our version of that but what we have to

01:03:00.680 also see is that china is controlling their number one adversaries children's tv programming education

01:03:07.400 i mean imagine in the cold war the soviet union controlled saturday morning cartoons for its number

01:03:12.260 one geopolitical adversary you know i actually talk to people in our defense and national security

01:03:16.900 apparatus quite a bit these days my concern is that our generals and our heads of the department of

01:03:21.880 defense know everything about hypersonic missiles and drones and the you know the latest tech you know

01:03:28.020 physical advances in warfare but how much do they know about tiktok and how their own children are

01:03:33.320 being influenced on tiktok and i'll give you a concrete example a tiktok insider told me this

01:03:37.260 he says he said the thing that people don't realize is that tiktok is an alternate incentive system

01:03:43.180 to capitalism instead of paying you in money i can pay you in likes followers and attention i can give

01:03:49.140 you a sense of boost of all those things so now let's say and china is known to do this they have a

01:03:54.020 national security strategy called borrowing mouths to speak so i want to borrow those western voices

01:03:59.520 who say positive things whatever anyone in the west says something positive about china and the

01:04:03.980 uyghurs are not a human rights problem it's all fine china can just say we're going to dial up those

01:04:08.620 people so they get paid and more likes more followers and more views then other people on tiktok

01:04:14.780 look at that and say well why are those tiktok influencers so successful and they start replicating

01:04:19.520 their behavior so you're creating an alternative system of influence on top of your number one

01:04:26.020 geopolitical adversary and you're you're being able to adjust those dials anytime you want and you don't

01:04:31.720 even have to get them to trust the communist part chinese communist party's voices you can take western

01:04:36.920 voices who happen to be pro china for whatever reason and just make them the ones that are heard the

01:04:41.080 most right and my colleague renee di resta um uh calls this amplifaganda it's not propaganda

01:04:46.820 it's amplification propaganda i'm taking your voices but the ones that i want to hear and

01:04:52.100 similarly we know what russia did you know and not just in our elections but ongoingly is they

01:04:56.380 take the most divisive voices especially the ones that focus on race on guns on immigration these these

01:05:01.440 topics and they and the ones who want to do um civil war and secession movements and things like

01:05:05.800 this and they amplify those voices because they want to amplify propaganda amplifaganda the ones that

01:05:10.700 are most divisive there is a world war iii information war that marshall mcclellan predicted

01:05:15.680 in 1968 when he said world war iii is a global information war that will make no distinction

01:05:21.680 between civilian and military combatants because now we are in that war but we don't really see it or

01:05:27.460 feel it that way and i've heard you talk about in the past the difference between we have these huge

01:05:30.960 oceans uh on both sides that make us a global superpower we have this physical you know kinetic

01:05:36.200 asymmetric position you know compared to our adversaries but those huge oceans and borders

01:05:41.420 go away in the digital world you know we have patriot missiles to shoot down a missile that you

01:05:46.600 know a plane that comes in from russia or china physically but if they try to fly an information bomb

01:05:50.920 into our country they're met with a white glove algorithm from facebook or twitter or tiktok that

01:05:56.120 says yes exactly which you know minority group would you like to target and a recent mit tech review

01:06:01.740 article said that actually um at the top uh facebook pages 15 pages that are for christian americans

01:06:09.420 all 15 of those christian american pages are actually run by macedonian troll farms of the top

01:06:16.000 15 african-american pages on facebook these are basically bots right of the top 15 african-american

01:06:21.680 pages two-thirds of those african-american pages reaching something like 80 million americans a month

01:06:26.620 are run by macedonian troll farms so we have to realize that again we're not even really living in

01:06:32.520 a real reality the metaverse is a virtual reality but even within that virtual reality it's a virtual

01:06:38.340 representation of our fellow citizens they're not even our fellow citizens that so that's and i just

01:06:42.980 want to pause and underscore to the audience at home this is something different this is something

01:06:46.660 russia did do okay they did do this this is not russia gate stuff this is not like weird this is

01:06:51.860 totally different russia did do this they they used bots to amplify disinformation if this is it does

01:06:57.240 it come as news to anybody really that they're trying to so you don't have to believe that this

01:07:01.020 influenced the election to just know that what they're trying to do is drive up division ongoingly

01:07:05.460 right and that's that is part of a you know a deep warfare strategy right because we're falling over

01:07:09.880 incoherently constantly disagreeing with each other and and then forced to see the more extreme

01:07:14.940 perspectives our society while these countries are not doing that they're not faced with that problem

01:07:19.220 and and just to pick up on the other point you were making about how they limit the children's

01:07:23.260 access to tiktok and so on in china because they came out with a couple of sweeping reforms within

01:07:28.400 the past few months along those lines trying to stop the children from spending all their time and

01:07:32.120 they're limiting the some of the time on the apps to just the weekends um yes gaming they limit to 40

01:07:37.920 minutes a day and on and only um on the weekends saturday and sunday um and tiktok like you're saying

01:07:43.760 they also do only only 40 minutes a day uh and like i said they have opening hours and closing hours

01:07:48.560 so at 10 p.m it just shuts off and and the reason for that by the way my thought my thought in reading

01:07:53.400 about that was okay so great we we've unleashed these unhealthy bombs on our children in in their

01:07:58.340 country in our country across the globe but china has actually stepped in to try to stop that bomb

01:08:03.180 from doing too much damage on its own children whatever its motivations they do not want a bunch of

01:08:07.860 you know missing the frontal lobe children to grow up addicted to technology just we need to play their

01:08:13.380 game needing to play they want their kids to be smart and to be the next generation's leaders and so on

01:08:17.260 meanwhile we left our kids twisting on the vine there's there's no attempt over here at all

01:08:23.860 as far as i can see by big tech to protect our children in any way in fact the more addicted the

01:08:30.460 better exactly exactly and you know this this perhaps i think is one of also the major issues

01:08:36.460 that in our country we can actually agree on right i mean who wants our children systematically

01:08:41.440 warped and deranged with comeback emails that like a digital drug lord when you stop using i figure

01:08:46.460 out how to more aggressively get you to come back and you know francis haugen the facebook whistleblower

01:08:51.100 you know people point to her credibility it's not her credibility that matters she was just leaking

01:08:55.480 facebook's own she had documents where yeah she had their their own documents and they found that

01:09:00.320 13 for among teens who reported suicidal thoughts 13 of british users and six percent of american users

01:09:07.000 trace their desire to kill themselves on instagram and they said that we make body image issues worse

01:09:13.500 for one in three teenage girls i know uh personally um some instagram insiders who actually left the

01:09:18.940 company after seeing that research because they couldn't justify um i'm staying there knowing that

01:09:23.820 that's the case and but this is all obvious because the whole business model is is designed around this

01:09:29.520 kind of predation on our kids but again i think what we need to do megan is we instead of focusing on

01:09:34.180 you know just these light reforms like how do we make social media slightly more privacy protecting or

01:09:39.380 10 percent less toxic by removing the anorexia thing i worry that this is a competition of two

01:09:44.940 systems we have democracy and we have authoritarianism and authoritarianism that model they're using the

01:09:52.560 full suite of technologies to make a kind of super authoritarian stronger sense-making environment they

01:09:58.380 have many problems i don't i don't admire it i don't want it to be the future um but meanwhile we can

01:10:03.260 notice that our democracy is not employing all these technologies to say how would we make democracy

01:10:08.040 even better how do we do even more consensus-based decision making how do we invite people uh there's

01:10:13.040 actually a model of this in in taiwan where when when instead of posting on social media when you

01:10:17.860 hate something about say the tax system or potholes or masks um when you post about something that you

01:10:23.900 say i want to fix in our democracy instead of that just turning into a long comment thread that

01:10:27.960 then gets shared more virally in the more clever stubborn thing you can say uh the more attention you get

01:10:33.000 in their system when you say i want to fix the tax the tax system has a problem you get invited

01:10:38.260 into a zoom call a stakeholder group that actually talks about how you would improve it and you actually

01:10:43.160 get other citizens and you're actually designing the improvement to that system and then that's taken

01:10:47.640 to the digital minister to actually implement well we could have a whole basis of technology that's

01:10:52.760 about strengthening our democracy and that's my concern about what we need to do we don't need

01:10:56.900 five percent less toxic social media we need a to sort of reinvigorate the values of the

01:11:01.560 declaration of independence for a 21st century age so we're not antagonistic technology to

01:11:05.920 technology we're using it to make a stronger democracy my gosh it just makes me think i i

01:11:10.520 don't really like to crack down on you know alleged hate speech or what have you and i don't like big

01:11:14.540 tech censorship um and i never thought mark zuckerberg should have been pulled into that

01:11:19.500 he was originally like it's not my job to police the internet and conversations having it and i was

01:11:23.500 like right on that's the american way but then he did submit and so on but we're focused on the

01:11:28.540 wrong stuff that's that is not the problem of big tech i mean it's irritating but it's not the

01:11:34.320 problem the their sins are so much more nefarious and ingrained and deep and part of the business

01:11:40.380 model than all that stuff which is a noise distraction exactly and in fact facebook um after

01:11:46.900 francis haugen came out we actually now know from wall street journal reporting they were consciously

01:11:51.840 trying to frame so she released all this research about how much it's dividing and polarizing us and

01:11:56.560 hurting kids and then facebook actually used their pr department to sow stories um saying that this was

01:12:02.500 all about censorship that what francis wants is censorship they whenever they talk about censorship

01:12:07.140 they do that because they know it just creates more division because the conversation about free

01:12:11.220 speech or censorship will never resolve it's the same 800 page just like law textbook conversation

01:12:16.820 everyone brings up the same examples and it never yields any results it's not about freedom of

01:12:21.080 speech we all want that in fact we should have that we should have less censorship on that

01:12:24.600 what we need is is we have to be careful about reach we've decoupled power and reach from

01:12:30.760 responsibility typically in the past the greater the broadcasting capacity you would have the more

01:12:35.760 responsibility you would have yes because you're reaching a large number of people now we have a

01:12:40.580 single tiktok influencer uh in china there's actually an example in china you can in a in one day

01:12:45.480 because you're reaching a billion people um you can actually create a billion dollars of sales there's

01:12:50.860 actually an article in mit tech review i believe it is that a single individual in china in one day

01:12:56.320 generated a billion dollars in sales because when you say something you reach a billion people this

01:13:00.360 could be a 15 year old or a 16 year old and or a kardashian or a kardashian right but instead of

01:13:05.960 the kardashians where it was only a few people in the past in the 20th 20th century we had like a few

01:13:09.900 big celebrities that could do it we're moving to a world where each tech company wants each of us to be a

01:13:14.700 kardashian they want each of your kids to be the influencer they want that to be the model for what

01:13:20.180 being human and being a kid is about and when they do that notice that has an effect on the other kids

01:13:24.480 the other kids say well they're way more popular and successful and getting the attention and i want

01:13:29.320 that attention and they're transforming the cultural basis for what our kids even want and again you zoom

01:13:35.340 out and you say you know china's playing chess and we're allowing these business models to collapse our

01:13:41.500 ability to think and act well in the 21st century because we've got a lot of problems that we have

01:13:45.240 to figure out when we come back a look at one of the great debates on the show this year

01:13:51.320 we always like to bring you debates on this program nuanced conversations with people

01:13:59.820 from all sides so you're not getting spun you're getting educated and entertained and titillated and

01:14:08.160 all the good things that you expect from conversation in this clip from episode 248 248 we took a deep

01:14:15.220 dive into the world of guns and gun control with guests on both sides of the debate we have brought

01:14:22.540 together two of the best minds on gun rights and gun control both men have broken countless stories

01:14:28.120 while covering the gun beat steven gutowski is founder of the reload and mike spies is a senior writer

01:14:35.020 for the trace steven and mike thank you so much for being here hey thanks for having me yeah thanks

01:14:40.960 for having me began all right so steven you are um the reload is i i don't know i don't want to say

01:14:47.200 pro-gun exactly but just for the audience to understand steven you're more sort of on the pro-gun

01:14:51.880 and um mike you're more on sort of the gun control uh beat and focused on what measures we could take

01:14:59.120 to sort of roll back some of the problems we've been seeing um so let's just kick it off with this

01:15:03.840 uh some stats for the audience we according to what i read we had more than 45 000 people shot to death

01:15:11.260 in america in 2020 um we had a spike in violence in 2021 and the vast majority of those gun deaths were

01:15:21.080 suicide uh so it's not all homicide but a fair amount of homicide too and america is the biggest gun

01:15:27.920 country in the world and um in particular what keeps people talking about it is the mass shootings

01:15:33.840 right like what we saw in michigan this kid ethan crumbly going into the school and shooting

01:15:39.140 uh you know other teenagers his parents have now been arrested it's a fascinating case

01:15:44.260 um but we also see it when innocent civilians or police officers are shot to death by people who had

01:15:51.460 no business having guns or the kind of gun that they had and that's where i'll kick it off because

01:15:55.540 here in new york uh overnight the second police officer died who was shot by that 44 year old

01:16:02.020 suspect he also died the suspect has died since but these cops were called to this house in harlem by

01:16:08.020 the suspect's mom they were walking down the hallway to go into his room and see what was wrong and he

01:16:14.660 came out they didn't they didn't stand a chance he came out guns blazing shot the cops uh both of whom

01:16:20.240 are now dead one was 22 uh he was shot and killed and now we have and his name by the way was jason

01:16:27.020 rivera and then there's wilbert mora just 27 it's so awful it's just so awful and steven i'll start with

01:16:34.640 you as somebody who is used to sort of defending gun rights a lot of people looked at that modification

01:16:39.660 he had on his gun which i understand was not lawful i don't know that that was the reason the cops

01:16:44.440 died you know he could have shot him just without that modification but should that guy have had a gun

01:16:48.400 career criminal and is there a gun law that could have prevented it yeah certainly i mean there's

01:16:54.560 there's a lot to unpack with a situation like that domestic violence call that leads to

01:17:00.260 you know the death of of law enforcement officers is a horrific tragedy and obviously i think most

01:17:07.660 people would question well how could this happen how can we prevent this going forward and there

01:17:12.060 are a number of ways i mean oftentimes in situations like that what you'll find

01:17:17.980 and and this is true for uh many mass shootings as well uh some of the most famous ones that we know

01:17:23.840 uh the shooter was prohibited they they weren't legally allowed to own guns in the first place due to

01:17:31.200 their either mental health history or their criminal history uh such as in this case and um

01:17:37.920 you know the question is how do you keep somebody who is already prohibited from owning guns

01:17:44.120 in under federal law so in the entire country from obtaining them and that's where a lot of the

01:17:51.140 uh controversy comes in because you know there's there's different proposals on uh that range from

01:17:57.880 better enforcement let me just stop you there let me stop and forgive my my interruption but i want to

01:18:02.460 make sure we all stay on same page so he should not this 44 year old man now dead the shooter should not

01:18:08.580 have had a gun why well if he had a criminal history that uh included uh either a felony conviction

01:18:16.380 or uh misdemeanor domestic violence conviction uh then he shouldn't have been able to obtain it or at

01:18:23.240 least he wouldn't legally have been able to possess the gun uh in the first place so we see it all the

01:18:28.680 time though with criminals we see it all the time with criminals who can commit domestic violence or some

01:18:33.180 other crime some other felony they get out of jail it seems very easy seems very easy for them to get

01:18:38.840 a gun am i wrong no i mean it can be very easy for uh people who are prohibited people who are

01:18:44.920 who are known criminals to obtain guns illegally outside of uh the current you know system yeah that

01:18:51.560 we have in place to buy guns uh you know through through licensed dealers with background checks

01:18:56.680 involved uh you know there's obviously proposals to expand that system to private sales as well that's

01:19:02.540 where a lot of the controversy comes in with the so-called universal background checks because

01:19:07.020 the idea there is that uh private sales should also have to go through uh the background check system

01:19:15.380 like sales from licensed dealers do although of course in this case you're talking about new york

01:19:20.240 which has a law like that in place already and obviously a lot of criminals just don't comply with it

01:19:27.300 and they sell guns knowingly that's the problem and this gets right to the heart of it right off the top

01:19:32.300 right so it's like mike the we could we do have tough gun laws in new york city um and yet there was

01:19:40.740 this guy sitting with this gun with this unlawful modifier on it again i don't think it wasn't the

01:19:47.180 modifier that led to the death of the cops a regular old gun could have killed these cops just as easily

01:19:51.160 but you know the point is just how easy it is despite the fact this is a career criminal sitting

01:19:56.640 there with the gun you yeah i don't know i'd love a real solution i would i'm not i'm so open-minded

01:20:03.400 on this issue i've been the victim of a crime and i've and so i appreciate guns for with the good guys

01:20:09.700 who protect us but i have three kids and i certainly worry about you know school shootings and the other

01:20:14.360 stuff too so i'd love to see a gun reform that could actually stop the bad guys from getting the

01:20:20.140 guns but i we passed every single one of the gun reforms joe biden's pushing right now that guy still

01:20:24.540 would have had this gun yeah i think the problem across the board in america is that we're pretty

01:20:29.960 weak on accountability measures which is what fuels the illegal gun market so for example one thing and

01:20:36.400 this in some ways also in a different way relates back to the michigan shooting that you were talking

01:20:41.120 about is we have we have pretty poor storage laws and regulation especially when it comes to

01:20:47.480 uh firearms dealers for example it is as as investigations have shown that the trace is

01:20:53.300 done um there's no real requirement in federally licensed firearm dealers or places that sell guns

01:21:00.440 to store them in such a way that they're not easily accessible which is why these like these smash and

01:21:06.980 grab situations where people basically just drive a car through the front door and take a hammer and

01:21:11.700 break glass uh and remove all the weapons and run out or saw a hole through the ceiling and

01:21:17.240 drop in and take all the guns like that's um it's a big it's a it's a it's a it's a gaping hole in

01:21:24.440 our system that allows legal guns to be trafficked into an illegal market um and i think until we're a

01:21:33.000 lot more serious about regulating gun sellers that's going to continue to be the pipeline and obviously

01:21:38.840 the other issue which we have how frequent an event is that mike where people are doing this

01:21:43.260 we've been following the smashing grab of the gucci bags but how often does that happen with respect

01:21:48.500 to the guns well i wish i could give you like a good statistic on that i mean i i think it's pretty

01:21:53.840 i mean i think they are they're recognized as pretty easy targets and definitely you know per the

01:21:59.600 investigation that i was referencing we have quite a lot of video showing the ease with which people

01:22:04.340 were able to break into gun shops and steal a ton of weapons um so i guess well i just want to make

01:22:11.440 a quick point here uh these are this is certainly a phenomenon that happens this is one way that

01:22:18.180 criminals get their guns mike's correct on that point but i i would sort of question the idea that

01:22:23.100 it's easy because given the tactics that are often employed like as mike suggested there literally

01:22:29.700 crashing cars through buildings to get to the guns i don't know what you know that that adding an extra

01:22:35.980 safe after you're willing to knock down the the wall of a building to get to the guns is going to be much

01:22:42.020 more of a deterrent we need a little levity don't we oh who better to ask for that moment than goldie

01:22:49.460 hahn with whom we had an incredible incredible time

01:22:54.240 we are closing things out today with a super fun conversation at times in-depth conversation at

01:23:02.540 times emotional that i had with goldie hahn okay for the full thing go to episode 245

01:23:07.420 here's just a bit of our great exchange on her incredible career and much more

01:23:12.240 your list of movies it's too it's crazy i just went back and was looking like i've seen all of

01:23:20.860 these seems like old times talk about private vengeance swing shift i love that's where you

01:23:25.200 and kurt russell met um and it goes on and on here's just a couple for people who need a refresher

01:23:30.400 like i did uh we'll get to overboard in a second first wives club everyone says i love you that was

01:23:34.820 the woody allen film 1996 same we are protocol wildcats bird on a wire house sitter death becomes her

01:23:39.200 the out-of-towners town and country uh i could go on first wives club is i hear possibly making a

01:23:45.560 sequel so we'll see about that but let's get to the main event okay let's talk let's talk turkey

01:23:51.200 overboard 1987 i just learned in preparing for this interview it was based on a real story there was

01:23:58.060 an actual woman who fell off a boat or showed up on a florida shore with amnesia and in the movie

01:24:04.200 which was apparently written with you and kurt in mind um the the premise is that the woman you're

01:24:09.180 character falls off of her yacht after being a real jerk to kurt russell's carpenter character

01:24:14.060 and he decides after she threw all of his carpentry tools in the water that he's going to go claim

01:24:20.640 this woman at the hospital and convince her that they're married and put her to work for him until

01:24:27.540 she works off all the money she threw into the water it's so funny you could never make this film

01:24:31.740 today by the way you'd get hit for not appropriate not pc whatever so um you couldn't make any of them

01:24:39.820 a lot of them you know yeah i mean when you look at some of the films and the way they were and what

01:24:44.360 they i mean it's just you know things have changed tremendously uh interestingly enough uh it has

01:24:50.520 affected comedy uh quite a bit uh this you know basically being you know uh you know basically

01:24:57.100 politically correct and so forth um because they their jokes were oftentimes made you know on all

01:25:03.100 these different things that you know were sort of liabilities right um and uh you know they i know

01:25:09.800 there's a lot of comics i mean it's sort of like they you know even when they go into universities

01:25:14.260 there's a lot of sensitivity to uh all kinds of stuff so it's really interesting to be a stand-up

01:25:20.120 comic or understand what your subject matters could actually be without offending someone that's

01:25:25.660 going to be so annoying to you you spent a whole career trying to make people laugh like having to

01:25:29.700 worry about the third rail you're supposed to step on the third rails if you're trying to make people

01:25:32.760 laugh well you're supposed to start on what you're supposed to step on the third rails you're

01:25:37.020 supposed to sort of poke the things that normal people wouldn't poke no no exactly i mean don rickles

01:25:43.000 you know was the killer on that um no that's sort of you know what you do i mean it was it was kind

01:25:49.260 of like that you know um i mean i don't know i remember one line i did on and wildcats and you

01:25:56.000 know i told i told him off and you know i was really upset with him and this was um nipsey russell

01:26:01.400 and and i was like really this and i left there and i hot it up and i came back and i said i forgot

01:26:08.160 my purse so and and she went back you know now today that would be a moment which is it was funny

01:26:15.180 but is now it's sort of like oh you're just i'm up down down deep i'm just a crazy female you know

01:26:22.720 um so there's a lot of areas that maybe not would not have been not you've been getting guff for doing

01:26:32.520 this kind of thing for a long time i understand when you you did laugh in that was sort of your first

01:26:36.360 big big thing i mean laughing back in the late 60s was i mean everybody watched it it was like

01:26:41.720 one in four americans was watching laughing which was on monday nights everybody watched that's where

01:26:46.020 she like became a huge star and then your movie career launched right after that but i read that

01:26:51.340 when you were doing that because you sort of played up sort of the the dumb blonde character in a funny

01:26:55.920 way and um i read that sort of the women's lib advocates kind of gave you a hard time saying

01:27:03.360 what are you doing you know you're setting women back and you were like well i don't think we need

01:27:07.280 to burn our bras necessarily to get ahead like i'm kind of living the women's lib thing by

01:27:11.280 paying my bills and working as an actress i don't like is that true what i said to her was this she said

01:27:19.920 well what about women's liberation uh and don't you feel bad because you know you're basically showing

01:27:25.900 off as a dumb blonde i said really i said you know i'm already liberated and she looked at me like uh

01:27:35.580 what do you mean i said well liberation comes from the inside and i'm liberated

01:27:43.580 and she it was one of those moments really where i didn't even know what i was going to say

01:27:49.540 you know sometimes when people ask you questions and you're thinking you know and it just comes out

01:27:53.240 yeah you know and it just came out is that you know i i don't know what you're saying because

01:27:58.780 i'm experiencing liberation right now well you would go on to live a life that showed it i mean i

01:28:03.700 think that's some of the stuff we're talking about producing the movie instead of just starring in

01:28:06.660 at a time when not a lot of women were doing that and standing up for yourself and not submitting and

01:28:10.700 so on taking a lot of bullshit from men um so you navigate yourself to a place where you can do a

01:28:17.120 movie like overboard you got her new i mean really that that was a great role by the way and i was

01:28:25.100 also looking at wonderful roles i mean she was first of all we did the movie you know where i played

01:28:32.720 um annie first i didn't we didn't put in in in order no joanna was the rich bitch version of you

01:28:40.520 and annie was like the one he said no annie's my wife you do all the cleaning annie exactly so she

01:28:46.500 was the one that i had to know who i was so i could play who i didn't know i was

01:28:51.900 so it was it it was quite a challenge to tell you the truth there one of the scenes i love the most

01:29:00.740 goldie is where you're you're you've had it you know this woman who's really joanna who's being told

01:29:06.800 she's annie and a housewife who does all the chores knows at some level that this isn't the

01:29:11.800 right fit and he dumps you in this like sort of water barrel out in the front of the house and

01:29:16.760 we have a clip in which you channel my every thought when i pick up a mop here she goes listen

01:29:24.080 feel better i don't belong here i feel it don't you think i feel it i can't do any of these vile

01:29:45.280 things and i wouldn't want to my life is like death my children are the spawn of hell and you're the devil

01:29:54.880 oh

01:29:55.760 baby we like you

01:30:05.280 oh my god i mean

01:30:15.280 i haven't seen that in a long time i mean that's like good i can't do any of these vile things that

01:30:25.700 i wouldn't want to

01:30:26.700 my children are the spawns of hell

01:30:31.380 you're the devil

01:30:33.380 oh my god i mean there are things in that film there were there were it was so funny and it also

01:30:40.900 was emotional because when she came out and said i how could you you know how could you do this

01:30:51.300 it was when she learns that he's been duping her because they do fall for each other and then she

01:30:56.620 learns he's been lying to her exactly and then my real husband comes back in his limo

01:31:02.980 and the kids were devastated and i was i just didn't know what to do i remembered who i was finally

01:31:11.460 and and it was like oh my god now in the middle of a movie that is hilarious right that was a very

01:31:19.840 dramatic moment and when she got in the car the kids running after her that was so sad so a movie

01:31:27.600 where you can cry laugh um you know just have a lot of uh emotions to it um we're we're really

01:31:38.440 extraordinarily lucky to be able to play um the end of the movie was one of my favorite endings

01:31:46.780 because when we jumped in the water because we we were pining for each other he was looking for

01:31:52.600 i was looking for him and we dove in the water together in the in the sea to get together the end

01:32:00.100 of it after they're all bundled up he says what can i give you that you don't already have because

01:32:05.200 she had the money and she looked at him and said a baby baby girl yeah kind of like oh perfect line

01:32:13.960 perfect line for an end of a movie i mean it's like i loved it but you guys were the key the

01:32:20.200 writer of the film is it uh leslie dixon leslie dixon and and and then there was writing from

01:32:27.660 every you know everybody harvey wrote some stuff and you know we we were we worked on it together

01:32:33.440 well so she says she gives you guys all the credit she's like kurt and goldie are the cutest

01:32:38.940 people on the face of the earth she goes i don't say that to be diminishing she goes it's just a fact

01:32:43.160 everyone loves them the chemistry was palpable you guys had met a few years earlier on the set of

01:32:49.700 swing shift which i also really enjoyed um and you could feel it and then you had a new baby wyatt

01:32:56.040 wyatt of now like who's now like captain america um he i just learned today he was running around the

01:33:03.200 set he was one of the kids in one of the outdoor mini golf scenes he was nine months old oh my gosh

01:33:11.520 i think he was nine months old and my nanny was holding him in the scene so he was just one of

01:33:18.060 the the extras right it was meant to be and he's like a baby on the movie set and still is on one

01:33:24.560 right and he took his first steps on that movie wow i don't know what do you why do you think that

01:33:31.680 movie has withstood the test of time you know because not every movie made in 1987 like moonstruck

01:33:36.000 that was an amazing film i think it may have come out that year people aren't still watching it it's

01:33:40.380 still not on television all the time so why is overboard doing that well i think overboard is a

01:33:46.500 general um uh it's a relationship movie first of all it's about people falling in love it's a an amazing

01:33:55.720 premise if you didn't know who you were who would you be uh it's also about when you it's also about

01:34:03.260 love um when you think you can't fall in love it changes you and it's also good for blended families

01:34:11.580 to see is that sometimes when they don't know who their mother is or they don't have a mom anymore

01:34:18.240 a new person coming into the household doesn't mean that it's going to fall apart sometimes it means that

01:34:24.600 they're going to have a great time a lot of doctors use this movie for blended families to show

01:34:30.260 and uh so it it it has tremendous ability to make people feel and it has nothing to do with time

01:34:39.320 that's why it's so timeless it's that it's really about about humor but how people get along

01:34:45.940 and how to get along um and you know it was emotional i mean when she wakes up and said

01:34:52.160 but when she had you know all that you know she was had um she's i'm so ugly i mean this is where

01:34:58.160 she had you know it's she had poison oak exactly yeah you know no it was great when she came out

01:35:04.180 he was telling all these stories about her past that she was in the navy and that she had she used

01:35:08.400 to be really fat which is why she had he had only these huge house dresses for her that he got from

01:35:12.180 the salvation and she goes i was a short fat slut that's right i mean really it's just so funny you

01:35:20.860 know and then when we're in bed together right and it's sleeping and he got me a washing machine

01:35:26.580 um for my birthday and the kids it's she was so happy you know and then he told her all about how

01:35:34.060 she we know was a employee of the month and and she was so happy about it you know and and so you

01:35:42.740 have this feeling you you you kind of hated him and you kind of knew he was falling in love with her

01:35:47.580 and she was so vulnerable to believe that i was i was employee of the month you know learning about

01:35:54.980 who i was and feeling good about it yeah no information for this character that she might

01:35:59.860 actually be a good person which joanna the other person not would never have actually heard and by

01:36:07.080 the way i mean it must be said your body was so amazing it's like your body looks by the way i've

01:36:14.580 had a baby well he was nine months old how is that possible what were you doing well you know i guess

01:36:21.640 being a dancer all your life your your body knows the muscles know that there's they have information

01:36:29.720 and so it's like when you go back to work again or you lose weight again or you do whatever you you

01:36:36.760 kind of got to go back your body has memory and i think that's what happened what did i do i worked out

01:36:43.140 i did a lot of things you know i didn't break my back but i i worked out i did my sit-ups i did my

01:36:49.280 stuff i had someone working with me you know i did all my weights of course i did aerobic so yeah i mean

01:36:55.440 you know i did what i what i normally do um looked amazing you both did just like i think it's muscle

01:37:02.660 memory i swear to god you still have it you post these little videos of you and your family during the

01:37:07.680 pandemic when you got the puppy whenever i'm like that bitch looks better than i am and she is 76

01:37:12.760 now i don't even know what it's like what the hell first of all your body is killer i mean you will

01:37:19.860 always have that by the way you know there's nothing to snap back into no it's very jiggly it's not like

01:37:24.460 the goldie haunt in overboard trust me it never has been you can't tell me that it's not true but

01:37:30.760 anyway um yeah so it's really it is nice but you know what's interesting is we get older um and i'm

01:37:37.880 very very what it is you can tell you know i've been a dancer you cannot let that go i mean once

01:37:43.020 you're three and four and five and six and seven and eight and that's what you did dance all your life

01:37:46.760 you cannot let yourself go right so i you know i went and i got i go to places for cleanses and all

01:37:52.680 that we were just talking about that uh this morning and i said you know no matter what i do i go to

01:37:58.660 the cleansing place it's great i'm doing all my everything we do we do come on we do the scrubs we

01:38:03.720 do the massage we don't eat we have you know all the stuff that we do do you know my stomach is so

01:38:09.400 flat and i'm so happy and it takes about two weeks what the hell cleanses this what cleanses this

01:38:15.400 goes back again i mean my stomach is it's not huge it's just all in the wrong place you know what i mean

01:38:22.660 i'm like oh come on so you know so am i paying attention still yes we can tell is you look

01:38:31.300 amazing and by the way abby could you sign me up for dance classes immediately uh goldie on i love you

01:38:38.140 so much thank you so much for doing this for doing mind up and the next tequilas are on me sister

01:38:44.040 okay babe you got it talk soon

01:38:46.900 thank you so much for joining me today and all week and all year could not do the show without

01:38:56.000 your support your clicks your downloads i know you're busy and you have a lot of options to choose

01:39:01.780 from so it's important that we live up to the high bar that we believe you set for us and we try our best

01:39:08.540 every day most of the time i think we succeed yeah one off here there but uh we appreciate you

01:39:13.720 and uh truly i'm grateful for you every night i pray for all of you guys every night when i say

01:39:17.760 my prayers i know you're out there and i really really appreciate you so excited to start the new

01:39:24.260 year with you on monday as we rejoin you live in 2023 happy new year

01:39:30.900 thanks for listening to the megan kelly show no bs no agenda and no fear

01:39:43.720 yeah

01:39:44.140 you

01:39:44.420 same

01:39:58.600 you

01:40:00.600 you

The Megyn Kelly Show - December 29, 2022

Best of 2022： Memorable Moments Featuring Malcolm Gladwell, RFK Jr., Goldie Hawn, and More ｜ Ep. 461

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