The Megyn Kelly Show - Best of the Week： Biden Agrees to Debate Trump, Michael Cohen's Lies, and Jen Psaki's Fake News

00:00:00.520 Welcome to The Megyn Kelly Show, live on Sirius XM Channel 111 every weekday at New East.

00:00:12.080 Hey everyone, I'm Megyn Kelly. Welcome to The Megyn Kelly Show and this weekend,

00:00:16.560 best of special. What a week. We had our pals from the Ruthless program on to talk about Jen

00:00:22.640 Psaki's outrageous lie in her new book that President Biden didn't really check his watch

00:00:28.440 during the Afghanistan fallen soldier ceremony. Hello, there's video. How on earth did she think

00:00:34.140 she was going to get away with this? Marsha Clark and Mark Garagos were here to react with me in real

00:00:39.620 time to the news that Donald Trump was going to debate President Biden. It's happening next month

00:00:44.240 on CNN. And of course, the Trump trial kicked into high gear this week. We had Phil Holloway and

00:00:49.700 Viva Fry on to dive into the prosecutor's star witness convicted felon, Michael Cohen. We also

00:00:55.820 had entrepreneur and author Gary Vaynerchuk here for the first time to talk about the way parents

00:01:01.740 are today and the way they raise their kids without consequences and accountability and with never

00:01:07.220 ending trophies. It was a super fun conversation and he had a lot of good advice for those of you

00:01:11.920 who are trying to grow your business online. Enjoy and I'll see you Monday. I'm going to start with

00:01:19.460 Jen Psaki because I think what she did is so gross and she's just gross. So she has written a book. 1.00

00:01:26.680 Let me see if I can find it. I have so many papers today. Kelly McGuire, tell me what page this is on

00:01:30.360 if you can in my packet. She's written a book and in her book, she decided that it might be a good idea

00:01:35.960 to describe and rehabilitate President Biden's incident at Andrews Air Force Base when the remains

00:01:43.420 of our fallen soldiers in Afghanistan were returned after his debacle of a withdrawal

00:01:50.560 from that war. And the name of her book is Say More Lessons from Work, the White House and the World.

00:01:59.900 And I guess her lessons are when something bad happens, you just lie about it. And that makes

00:02:04.360 perfect sense given that she was his press secretary and now she works for MSNBC. 0.84

00:02:08.460 Um, here is what she wrote. This is per Axios, which has a copy the president. Now this is when

00:02:16.620 at Andrews, when he, you know, infamously looked at that watch as the remains, uh, were in front of

00:02:22.960 him per Axios hockey rights. The president looked at his watch only after the ceremony had ended.

00:02:31.440 He, uh, moments later, he and the first lady headed toward their car. She also writes that Biden's

00:02:37.140 critics were engaged in quote misinformation and huge use the image to make him appear insensitive,

00:02:45.900 concerned only about how much time had passed. Okay. None of that is true. He checked his watch

00:02:54.060 during the ceremony repeatedly, not just once during, look at this. This is while the bodies are still in

00:03:02.220 front of him. He tries to slide it in there. He looks at his watch, even his most ardent defenders

00:03:07.780 at the time who tried to fact check the claims that he checked his watch had to wind up admitting,

00:03:12.480 all right, he did. In fact, he didn't just do it that once. He did it repeatedly. He wanted to get

00:03:17.740 the thing over with. He was sick. There he is again. He was sick and tired of having to stand there

00:03:23.600 and honor the fallen soldiers at Dover that we've talked about it repeatedly on this show.

00:03:30.040 Sure. You guys have talked about it as well. And she has the nerve to try to launder that moment in 0.99

00:03:36.360 advance of an election by saying it wasn't until the whole thing was over. It is a lie and it is a

00:03:42.400 material lie. She told in that book. Now her account is not only at odds with what we saw with our eyes,

00:03:50.180 but with fact checks done at the time, news agencies, photos from the ceremony at Dover

00:03:55.900 and statements from Gold Star families. Hold on a second. This is from Axios here.

00:04:04.180 Mark Schmitz, the father of Marine Lance Corporal Jared Schmitz. Schmitz told Congress in April of

00:04:10.160 2023 that, quote, while I stood there on the tarmac. No, actually, we have the sock cut. Let's watch it.

00:04:16.960 Well, I stood there on the tarmac watching you check your watch over and over again.

00:04:25.620 All I wanted to do was shout out. It's two fucking 30. Asshole. 0.99

00:04:32.840 But out of respect to the other grieving families, I bit my tongue once again. 0.99

00:04:38.620 God bless him. I'm so sorry for his loss. And you can feel his anger. And Jen Psaki calls him a liar

00:04:45.900 by putting this lie of her own in her book. She's looking those Gold Star families in the face and 0.80

00:04:52.440 saying, you lied. You put out misinformation to hurt our dear president. I'm the only one who will tell

00:04:59.380 you the truth. She put it in her book, which she then read in audio form. And this is the same person

00:05:07.900 who a week ago was out there lambasting Christy Noem for lying in her book. At least she just lied 1.00

00:05:16.800 about a dumb ass meeting with a world leader. It's a it's a lie that's dumb to tell, but of no 1.00

00:05:22.280 consequence. This is a middle finger to the Gold Star families. And there's been no apology. 1.00

00:05:29.580 What she's done so far is first not respond when she was asked for comment by Axios. And then after

00:05:39.540 they published their story, she said the detail in a few lines of the book about the exact number of

00:05:46.940 times he looked at his watch will be removed in future reprints about the ebook. Then she makes it

00:05:53.920 about Bo Biden because he's the go to of the entire White House team. Whenever controversy hits,

00:06:01.440 she tries to say the story on Afghanistan is really about the importance of delivering feedback,

00:06:05.440 even when it's difficult. Told through my own experience of telling President Biden that his

00:06:10.040 own story of loss was not well received by the families who were grieving their sons and daughters.

00:06:14.160 You see, I got it. I understand he shouldn't have brought up Bo Biden as then she does right here

00:06:20.460 to excuse her, excuse her own lie and her offense caused to the poor Gold Star families. It's

00:06:29.600 absolutely egregious. And by the way, no apology, zero apology to the Gold Star families, six of whom

00:06:39.140 spoke to the New York Post and have demanded a retraction and an apology from her. Nothing.

00:06:47.480 Look at this. How dare she insult them in an effort to score political points for her heartless boss? 0.54

00:06:55.140 What do you guys make of it? Well, it's disgusting. You know, I haven't read her trash book, 0.99

00:07:01.780 obviously, as I imagine many people in your audience haven't either. But I wonder,

00:07:06.800 you know, while she was busily excusing him for checking his watch and disrespecting families to

00:07:10.900 their face, whether she got into the fact that none of those families would have been there in the first

00:07:14.600 place if it wasn't for Joe Biden. And the egregious missteps and just all out callousness as it dealt

00:07:24.220 with our armed forces who'd been at that point 20 years into a mission of trying to withdraw at the

00:07:31.180 height of the fighting season so he could make a deadline of a 20th anniversary of 9-11, which is

00:07:38.520 what this is all about. I mean, none of those families would be there in that first place if he

00:07:42.720 didn't want to do a big ceremony on 9-11 announcing that he had ended the war in Afghanistan. Like,

00:07:48.580 never mind the fact that the facts on the ground didn't support what he was trying to do or he put

00:07:54.180 their lives in danger. You got him killed. Like, just be honest with it. They would not have died

00:07:59.840 if not for that decision making. So, his watch, whatever. You know, like, yes, she's a liar. But I

00:08:05.560 made the mistake years ago of assuming that everyone who speaks for the Biden administration

00:08:10.760 had no training at all. I think they had tons of training because I don't know how you can

00:08:14.700 straight-faced lie so often without having some sort of at least remedial course in sociology.

00:08:21.360 Well, it's a great point. But one way you can straight-faced lie so frequently is if you have

00:08:26.540 a receptive audience. And Democrats certainly have that in the mainstream press. We always say

00:08:30.900 that the easiest job in town is Democrat press secretary because they can say whatever they

00:08:35.960 want and it will lead the story as if they're the hero and the Republicans are always quoted

00:08:40.300 at the very bottom. And I think that conditions people like Jen Psaki into, like, this false sense 0.99

00:08:46.960 of reality that, oh, you just lie. You'll get away with it. Just lie. Nobody's going to notice. Well,

00:08:51.640 he was on camera and everybody, including that very, very sad story of that guy who, I mean,

00:08:59.100 Megan, like, that video was heartbreaking. I feel so bad for that guy. And people like Jen Psaki

00:09:04.860 just think they can lie to them and then move on to the next thing, the next cocktail party.

00:09:09.120 And then say it's misinformation. The nerve of this woman to say it's misinformation to claim 0.91

00:09:14.040 otherwise. She knows very well that the Gold Star families are on record as saying it happened.

00:09:19.140 Keep going, Ashbrook.

00:09:20.560 No, I mean, you said it very well. It's just, it is infuriating. And it is very infrequent that they

00:09:26.920 get caught in the lies that they tell on a daily basis. But I think that's why it's so important

00:09:31.380 that people like you, Megan, and people that are listening to this show are actively, vigilantly

00:09:37.040 watching this president in this White House because you know that the media is not. And so it's

00:09:44.000 dependent on your audience, Megan. It's dependent on people like you. It's depending on people like

00:09:48.940 us at the Variety Program to hold them accountable.

00:09:51.300 You can only really understand that.

00:09:52.420 Let me, let me, yeah, go ahead, Duncan. Go ahead.

00:09:54.880 Well, I was going to say the only way you can really understand how somebody can be so successful 0.67

00:09:59.540 at being such a bald faced liar is understanding this revolving door between liberal dark money

00:10:05.740 groups, government, and then media. I mean, Jen Psaki came up in her career in a liberal dark money 0.99

00:10:11.340 group and then waltzed her way right into the White House to be a spokesperson for the president of 1.00

00:10:17.100 the United States. And then when she got tired of that job, she's on national television every single 0.98

00:10:21.960 night. Like when you live a life like that, that's how you become a liar with no remorse.

00:10:29.500 That's right. Yeah.

00:10:30.980 But I mean, look at this. We pulled this a couple of weeks ago when Ronna McDaniel got booted from the

00:10:36.460 RNC. No, when she got booted from NBC, right? After like a day of service. Jen Psaki goes on her 0.97

00:10:44.200 failing show at MSNBC. And maybe the audience remembers this. I compared her at the time to Dora the

00:10:51.300 Explorer. She was like, I'm here for truth. I listen to what she said, how she described that

00:10:58.940 path you just described. Duncan, listen. Some mainly in the right wing ecosystem have made the

00:11:05.260 comparison to others who have come from government or politics into the media, including me. And that

00:11:11.480 is a comparison. I felt like I had to address. I got into public service for the same reason that

00:11:16.880 many people do to serve the American people. And there are many others who have followed a similar

00:11:22.020 path who I have a great deal of respect for. But here's the thing. That kind of experience only

00:11:28.080 matters and only has value to viewers, all of you, if it is paired with honesty and with good faith.

00:11:35.520 Our democracy is in danger because of the lies that people like Ronna McDaniel have pushed on this

00:11:40.780 country. OMG. And not for nothing, because I'm going to, I'm just going to show you the Dora clip

00:11:47.680 because you weren't here. Here it is. To dance the candy cut dance, we need to scratch our

00:11:53.420 candy paws, stomp our feet, and wag our candy tails. Here we got the mermaid freak. Yay! 1.00

00:12:00.860 That's a perfect comparison. Not even the voice sounds the same.

00:12:11.760 Are we sure Saki didn't do the voiceover for the other gig that she had on the way there?

00:12:19.400 Do you believe this, Mug? I'm here to serve the American people. It only matters if it's paired

00:12:25.280 with honesty and good faith and not lies. That's the thing is cloaking all of that bad faith under

00:12:34.020 protecting democracy and saying any, any facts that are inconvenient to you or misinformation.

00:12:40.360 Her books have been lying for the Bidens, not lessons from the White House, because

00:12:44.080 she ran the same playbook when Joe was running the first time. They lied about Hunter's laptop. This is

00:12:49.720 their game plan during the election season is they have to try to make everyone trick them again into

00:12:54.980 believing that, oh, Joe Biden, he's nice Uncle Joe. He's a nice guy. He's not the callous monster who

00:12:59.980 sits and looks at his watch when the soldiers who were killed because of him are being brought back

00:13:05.400 to the country. I mean, that's unbelievable to do that as a president and to send out a spokesperson.

00:13:13.740 She's still his spokesperson. Now she just gets to do it on MSNBC. To send out your spokesperson and try 0.96

00:13:18.620 to lie to the American people again and say that didn't happen. Don't trust your lying eyes. It's 0.98

00:13:22.660 disgusting. And then when caught to just say misinformation, his critics, you know, and then 0.96

00:13:29.140 and now and now when caught red handed on that, those lies to say, oh, this small detail of exactly

00:13:35.960 what the timing was will be corrected on the. No, that goes to the very heart of the matter that

00:13:42.300 depending on when the timing was, there's either a huge controversy or there's absolutely nothing.

00:13:48.960 You changing the time of when he looked at that watch changes the story into a nothing

00:13:55.280 falsely. That's why this gold star dad was so pissed off the timing of it in the in the

00:14:01.580 thought we played. That's why the six families are speaking in the New York Post immediately

00:14:05.600 saying this is bullshit. This is whitewashing. She she knows very well. This isn't some minor 0.99

00:14:12.000 edit of like, oh, gee, I said 915 when I really meant 920. She completely changed the facts. And

00:14:19.040 by the way, guys, as I mentioned, she was on The View. Was it last week? Ripping Kristi Noem

00:14:27.580 on her book controversy. Watch this last week. I've also never worked for somebody who's lied

00:14:34.260 about a foreign leader they've met with. And Alyssa made this point. This is so true. Meeting with

00:14:39.700 Kim Jong-un. There are a handful of people who have ever done this. It's very knowable. I just 0.80

00:14:45.780 wrote a book. You read the book a thousand times. You read it out loud when you're doing the audio

00:14:51.220 book. You think, oh, I need you need a comma there. That weird word is strange. When she said

00:14:56.300 and I met with Kim Jong-un, did she say think to herself, I didn't meet with Kim Jong-un.

00:15:00.320 When you when you read the audio book, you think about it a thousand times. Oh, that's that was my

00:15:09.040 takeaway. You need a comma there. She is a liar. The president looked at his watch only after the

00:15:17.920 ceremony had ended. This is a huge story. It was a huge story. Got coverage everywhere. She knows damn

00:15:23.320 well that this matters. And either she didn't understand it at the time it actually happened

00:15:28.580 and didn't bother to do any fact checking before she put this lie in her book, understanding

00:15:32.400 that it could anger Gold Star families or she lied throughout. My money's on the ladder. I think 0.67

00:15:39.140 she's a liar. By the way, no comment yet from MSNBC either, which they should do. They need to also 0.99

00:15:44.560 make a comment saying we regret her error. She's going to make a make it right. And we're sorry.

00:15:50.100 And then maybe put her on the air. But that's the same network that's employing Joy Reid,

00:15:53.540 who lied to us about the FBI investigating who hacked her blog after mysteriously when she was

00:15:58.720 the only one ever posting on it. All these homophobic comments appeared on it. But that's

00:16:02.740 a federal crime lying to the FBI. Does she actually tell that shit to the FBI because she should be in 1.00

00:16:07.660 jail if that's true? Well, you know, it's a funny thing. It's not an isolated incident. Obviously, 1.00

00:16:13.660 we saw all of the lies that she had as as press secretary, like the one that I remember the most.

00:16:18.100 Do you remember early on in the Biden administration when they had the border security,

00:16:21.580 the border patrol on the horse? Yes, that was awful. And there was this left wing outfit that

00:16:26.640 said that this war patrol agent was whipping people. Yeah. And immediately the press office

00:16:31.900 in the Biden administration jumps to it, takes this absolutely hook, line and sinker, and they

00:16:36.240 eliminate all kinds of things. They demonize the border patrol. They keep with the lie. And then it

00:16:41.500 turns out, you know, you find out a week later, none of that is true. It was it was literally the

00:16:47.400 reins on a horse, like as anyone who's ever ridden a horse can attest. But they didn't walk any of that

00:16:54.740 back. And the damage was done. And the impressions amongst the Biden base voters only further

00:17:00.840 deteriorated for border security personnel. I mean, it's it's not just the gold star father,

00:17:07.460 it's anyone who gets in their way. And I think you said it best, Ashbrook, remorseless is the key.

00:17:13.160 Yeah. Anybody who speaks for a living is going to make an a error along the way. The question is

00:17:19.100 whether you feel bad about it and you correct the record after the fact we've all had to do that in

00:17:23.600 some form or fashion. They don't and own it. And they don't. She doesn't doesn't even occur to her 1.00

00:17:28.980 that that's a responsibility. She can't apologize to the gold star families because this was intentional

00:17:34.820 and she knows it. If there's no way of saying this was an innocent mistake, this was a huge deal.

00:17:39.840 She understands very well as the press secretary at the time what she was doing. She knew perfectly

00:17:45.040 well. And she decided to take the hit because she's running cover for him. She wants abortion 1.00

00:17:50.520 on demand more than she wants an honest relationship with her listeners, readers, viewers. And that's

00:17:56.220 very obvious.

00:18:01.160 What do you make of the news that we're going to have at least two presidential debates, Mark?

00:18:06.480 You want to know what I think? The cynic in me is that the reason that Trump agreed and he agreed so

00:18:14.160 readily to CNN is that this is three dimensional chess. And he's he knows he's going to get or it's

00:18:21.600 most likely he's going to get convicted in most state courts in New York included. If you get convicted

00:18:27.820 of multiple felonies, most judges will remand you immediately into custody pending sentencing.

00:18:33.580 He's forestalling. He's going to dare this judge. You put me in custody. I've got a presidential

00:18:39.420 debate. You have definitely interfered with the election. And here you go. I want it in June.

00:18:45.320 I think that's exactly what's happening. That's so interesting. I hadn't even considered that.

00:18:51.340 Wait, could that happen? So if we if they wrap both cases by Monday or Tuesday, they have closing

00:18:58.940 arguments maybe on Thursday because they're off on Wednesdays. The jury gets the case and we have a

00:19:03.500 verdict potentially within two weeks from now. You're telling me the judge, if he's convicted,

00:19:08.940 could immediately sentence him to go to jail. Ask Marsha if she can name 10 cases where somebody has been

00:19:17.980 convicted of multiple felonies while being cited for contempt during the trial. And any name a judge who

00:19:28.060 has not remanded that person pending sentencing. It's almost virtually unheard of.

00:19:34.860 True. Marsha. Very, very true. With all that he's got going on, not just this case, but a judge looks at

00:19:41.520 the entire picture of what this guy's got going on. And it's a lot of cases and there's a lot of

00:19:46.940 jeopardy. He's also been cited for contempt a million times. He's shown that he has no regard for the law.

00:19:52.900 And someone like that, if you don't remand them, you're incompetent. So I have to say, no,

00:19:59.100 I've never seen a case where they haven't. However, this would be the one where it doesn't happen

00:20:03.640 because it's Trump. And I think the judge will probably not remand him. He may take his passport

00:20:08.740 and do the kind of interim things you can do to control someone, their movements and prevent him

00:20:16.600 from leaving town, maybe even give him an ankle monitor. But I don't think that he's going to get

00:20:21.340 remanded. We could have a presidential debate with one of the presidential candidates wearing an ankle

00:20:26.320 monitor. Wait, let me give you one. Let me just add one little kind of twist to this. So you've got

00:20:33.120 a presidential candidate who's being tried in the Supreme Court of New York, who I think the odds are

00:20:40.300 his best day is a hung jury. I don't think there's any chance of an acquittal given the jury. And he

00:20:46.600 potentially faces being remanded into custody. That is a real possibility. If he was anybody but Trump,

00:20:54.220 he would be in custody. And you now have, as of yesterday, Hunter Biden scheduled not for one,

00:21:02.020 but two criminal trials in June as well. So the son of the current president and the leading contender

00:21:09.820 for president, both dealing with criminal jeopardy in the same single month.

00:21:16.080 I'm dead. I died. I can't. Can you just explain, Marshall, I'll give this to you. Explain remand.

00:21:25.280 That means being taken into custody. So when they say remanded into custody, he is sent back to the

00:21:32.260 custody of the jailer, whoever that is, county, state, whatever it is, federal.

00:21:36.900 So, Marshall, why don't you describe what happens in the courtroom when they read the guilty verdict?

00:21:43.140 You'll see them take off the watch, take off the pen, take off the belt, put their hands behind

00:21:49.020 their back, get cuffed and walked in the back door. Yeah. In the courtroom? In the courtroom.

00:21:55.700 In the courtroom, right into lockup. It happens every single time, absent some extenuating circumstance.

00:22:03.020 Yeah. Yeah. In state court. In state court. In state court. That's right. I can't vouch for what

00:22:10.500 happens in a federal trial, but this is a state trial. So, and I would imagine New York follows

00:22:14.520 what we do, Mark. I mean, it's the same procedure. They absolutely do. Federal court is more civilized.

00:22:21.080 Generally, if you've been out on bail or unreleased, they will put the case over for sentencing.

00:22:27.520 You're going to order the PSR, the pre-sentence report, and you'll be allowed to stay out of

00:22:33.400 custody pending sentencing. State court, completely different. You are remanded.

00:22:38.480 What about a court like this, a case like this, where most legal experts I've read do not predict

00:22:45.300 Trump will be sentenced to jail? But even under those, as somebody without a record, even under

00:22:51.220 those circumstances, would the likelihood be, if his name weren't Trump, he'd be remanded?

00:22:55.880 I don't know what legal experts you're talking to, but this judge has already threatened to put him

00:23:01.820 in jail for saying the unbelievable statement that this jury is 95% Democrat, and it's a Democrat

00:23:10.580 coming to get me. That is what he has been found in contempt of. So, and when you're threatening

00:23:16.600 jail over that, you get convicted of 34 felonies, he's going to go to jail.

00:23:23.000 Usually, that's absolutely true. By the way, he's also been cited for contempt for calling the judge

00:23:28.240 corrupt, the clerk corrupt, insulting their families. I mean, he's made outrageously disgusting remarks,

00:23:34.460 and he, any other defendant would have already been sitting in jail for contempt. So, you know,

00:23:40.120 look at how unusual, we call it in the law, sui generis this is. It's Trump, and therefore,

00:23:45.600 none of the rules apply. So, I mean, the fact that he hasn't, he isn't sitting in jail right now

00:23:50.000 is amazing. So, I don't predict that he's going to get remanded. I don't, it's possible he won't

00:23:56.180 get jail time. Although, given all of his behavior and everything that they've seen, if the jury does

00:24:01.960 convict, and I think it probably will, it would be really ridiculous not to give him some jail time.

00:24:09.600 We ought to think about what kind of precedent you're setting, because this is, you know, people have

00:24:14.820 talked a lot about the nature of these charges, and how unusual they are, and how they're trumped up

00:24:19.220 misdemeanors into a felony, etc. But it really was an effort to affect the election. There's no

00:24:25.120 question that that was the motive. He didn't care otherwise, and I do think the evidence has shown

00:24:29.440 that. So, whether you think he deserves jail time or not, it is a felony. And you have to think about

00:24:35.120 what other defendant would get away with no jail time, given all that he's done, and given what he's

00:24:40.040 convicted of, it's remarkable. But I don't think he will. I mean, honestly, if I had to put my money

00:24:45.000 on either side, I would guess he will not get jail time. See, that's my legal expert right there,

00:24:50.640 Mark. She doesn't believe it. I haven't seen, I mean, Charlie McCarthy, I haven't seen anybody

00:24:55.680 predicting that this is likely to result in a jail time sentence, given his complete absence of any

00:25:01.080 criminal history. And, I mean, you're saying this based on the fact that this is a Trump-biased judge,

00:25:07.260 which I agree with, which is why I don't think Trump's comments have been disgusting. I know

00:25:12.420 why you're saying that, Marsha, but I don't, I think he's running for president, and he's got

00:25:16.080 two wars to fight. You know, he's got a legal war, and he's got a PR war, and all those comments are

00:25:20.900 very important for the PR war, which is working for him. And I understand now he's, the judge has

00:25:26.180 got to run his courtroom, and he's been chastising Trump at every turn. But, Mark, on the subject of

00:25:31.200 jail time, is that just based on the fact that you think this is a Trump-hating judge?

00:25:36.680 No. I think that if this, I think most judges, when they, I'm just telling you, based on 40 years

00:25:43.260 of doing this, almost 99% of the time, in a case like this, even though it's a documents case,

00:25:51.200 you get convicted of a number of felony counts you're going to get remanded. Period. End of story.

00:25:57.500 And, by the way, I might bet Marsha on this. I still think we'll sentence him to jail. He may

00:26:04.700 not remand him now, because clearly, under any interpretation, that would interfere with the

00:26:12.520 presidential election. But I can see him sentencing him to jail, staying the jail time, citing the fact

00:26:20.420 he does not want to interfere with the election. But I don't think that this judge is going to say,

00:26:25.820 I'm going to give you straight probation. I don't think there's any chance of that, frankly.

00:26:31.580 You're going to take that bet?

00:26:33.280 I'm taking that bet. I don't think it's going to be a long sentence. I mean, I don't think

00:26:38.200 even if he does get jail, it'll be something minimal. Yeah, I think it'll be something minimal,

00:26:43.920 if not all. But I would take the bet that he does not get jail time. I'm in.

00:26:49.220 So you're saying no jail time and not remanded, and Mark's saying jail time and remanded.

00:26:55.820 I'm saying that I don't think he will remand. Most judges do. But if convicted,

00:27:01.620 this judge is going to sentence him to jail and then stay the jail sentence so that he doesn't

00:27:06.080 get accused. Pending what? Pending what?

00:27:09.240 Pending appeal.

00:27:11.580 Okay, so Trump, the filing or the resolution?

00:27:14.860 Yeah, no. What he will do is set a bail pending appeal, and that will to stay the immediate

00:27:23.900 imposition of jail time. But I will tell you right now, this case, in my humble opinion,

00:27:29.640 is so susceptible to being reversed on appeal, I can't even tell you. I mean, there's never any,

00:27:36.220 most appeals are affirmed for the prosecution or the conviction is affirmed. But this case,

00:27:42.660 frankly, is the most attenuated legal theory that I can even imagine.

00:27:48.160 Okay, so you do the jeopardy right there. That's it right there.

00:27:51.640 Do you think that, do you think we talked about maybe Trump is agreeing to this immediately because

00:27:55.720 he sees the debate as a disincentive to the judge to remand him or do anything too aggressive?

00:28:02.880 Because now it's like we're, we could be days away from, well, I guess it'll be a couple weeks

00:28:09.040 away from a debate.

00:28:10.500 Unless they're going to allow him to debate from Rikers by video.

00:28:15.480 Oh my God.

00:28:17.100 This, I think, I think, frankly, it's, like I say, it's three-dimensional chess. He knows,

00:28:23.920 agree immediately. He's, they, they're going to, this case is going to go to the jury in no time.

00:28:30.560 There's no way that this state judge is going to remand him now pending a debate. He, you know,

00:28:38.180 there, there could have been a world where he would have remanded him for a small period of time,

00:28:43.960 but I just can't imagine it now with a debate that's in the same month when he gets convicted.

00:28:50.160 Okay. So how about Biden's calculation then? I mean, is Biden's calculation probably no more than

00:28:54.840 he's going to be fresh off of his first conviction. And I can't wait to discuss it in front of the,

00:29:00.600 in front of the American people.

00:29:02.400 I mean, that has to play into it. Don't you think that's the, this is, there's no more,

00:29:06.620 but it's, it's a good vulnerable point at which to confront Trump. Well, look at,

00:29:11.780 I'm talking to a convicted felon now, you know, I mean, this is who I'm debating. He can,

00:29:16.620 he can call him a six-year-old and everything else, but when you can call him an actual convicted felon,

00:29:21.140 that's a pretty nice position to be in. So I would, I would guess that has a great deal to do

00:29:27.860 with it. Yes. Cause Mark, it came out of the blue. I mean, I think most people did not expect Biden to

00:29:33.540 agree to these debates for the record. He's rejecting the commission on presidential debates

00:29:38.100 and their proposal, which we see in every election to hold three presidential debates

00:29:43.100 beginning in September and they happened in September, October. And he said, Biden said, no,

00:29:49.940 I'm not doing that. I don't want your traditional structures and I reject you. I'll do it with two

00:29:55.300 news organizations, one in June, one in September. And as I said, he said, pick the moderator from

00:30:00.120 your existing roster. And Trump too said, I don't want the commission on presidential debates either.

00:30:06.560 So they're both going outside the traditional colored lines. It's kind of interesting.

00:30:11.080 Trump wants an audience. He had his typical rhetoric, like it would, it's going to be extremely exciting.

00:30:15.920 And I can see, uh, Biden doesn't want crowds, although, you know, he must be used to not having

00:30:21.400 them. And Biden said, right. I don't want any crowds. I just want like in a news studio quiet.

00:30:27.740 And I want the opponent's mic turned off as soon as he's done answering. I don't know whether any of

00:30:34.100 those terms have been agreed to, but we have two dates. This could wind up being like the Ben Shapiro,

00:30:38.980 Candace Owens debate, which never happened, even though both parties said, yeah, bring it now. No,

00:30:44.000 didn't happen. This could wind up, but I think it's going to happen now that you've got the nets

00:30:47.500 involved. Um, but I do wonder whether this could backfire on Joe Biden, Mark, because as we've seen

00:30:55.580 all along, all the big lawfare efforts against Trump, whether it was the indictments, the mugshot,

00:31:01.060 the trial have, have wound up in the polls, either not hurting or helping him.

00:31:06.860 Well, I look, it could, could it backfire? I'm sure the calculus is, I don't have any inside

00:31:14.680 information, but I living in my kind of left wing democratic bubble on the, uh, that I exist in.

00:31:23.800 Everybody seems to think in my world that if he, if Trump is convicted, that the so-called swing

00:31:32.880 voters are going to swing against Trump. I think that's wrong. Frankly, I don't think that's the

00:31:39.260 case. I think that so far to echo your analysis here, every single one of these cases has imploded

00:31:47.120 spectacularly. And every prediction by conventional kind of lawyers or wisdom has been dead wrong. I

00:31:56.740 remember, Megan, you probably do as well. Everybody was saying the Fannie Willis recusal motion had no

00:32:02.980 legs. Everybody was saying that the, that, uh, the judge and, um, what's her name in the, uh, the 0.67

00:32:10.320 January cannon was going to, no, that's, that's checking. She was going to drive this thing to 1.00

00:32:16.760 trial. We were getting to trial. There's no way the Supreme court would entertain presidential

00:32:21.120 immunity. Every single thing by the chattering class has been wrong when it comes to these cases 0.84

00:32:27.460 and, you know, newsflash it's because most of these people do not practice in trial courts or

00:32:33.960 in appellate courts and don't have any understanding of what the legal issues are. And it's, it's too bad

00:32:39.300 because I think it misleads people who are watching or listening to these things as to what the odds are

00:32:45.660 in these cases. All right. I have kind of a very interesting update on the judge Chuck in January

00:32:50.900 sixth trial, which I'm going to get to in one second, but I just want to stay on New York for

00:32:54.100 one minute. Um, here's a bit of Joe Biden in his, and now we found out that he was willing to debate

00:32:59.260 by a video statement he released on X and then a follow-up with a written statement. And then Trump

00:33:04.900 immediately said yes, but here's, here's what Biden said in accepting the debate. Donald Trump lost two

00:33:10.440 debates to me in 2020. Since then he hadn't shown up for debate. Now he's acting like he wants to

00:33:15.000 debate me again. Well, make my day, pal. I'll even do it twice. So let's pick the dates,

00:33:20.620 Donald. I hear you're free on Wednesdays. Okay. An attempt to humor there because Trump's on criminal

00:33:27.540 trial and he's off on Wednesdays, which is annoying. I have to say, because he, Trump's not allowed to

00:33:33.860 talk about, you know, there's so much that Trump is gagged in responding to. And it's just annoying

00:33:39.620 that the sitting president would be bringing it up when he knows Trump has to fight with one hand

00:33:43.640 tied behind his back. Okay. But whatever, like he can't get out there and say, yeah, I'm on criminal

00:33:48.220 trial because I'm sitting in front of a jury. That's 95% democratic. And if you go by the

00:33:53.420 stats, no, he'll get, he'll get jailed. If he says that, okay, whatever. He puts out the thing.

00:33:58.540 He's looking for a laugh and enter the crew at morning Joe to provide it. Watch.

00:34:03.220 Well, make my day, pal. I'll even do it twice. So let's pick the dates, Donald. I hear you're

00:34:09.340 free on Wednesdays. Oh boy. Okay. So just a little preview of how it's going to go when CNN hosts the

00:34:24.980 debate. He wanted to be attorney general. He wanted to be taken along to the administration.

00:34:33.300 Trump was smart enough to realize, no, there's no role for you there. And then this is basically

00:34:39.420 what happened to Michael Cohen. He, he became very familiar to many of us who have seen this movie

00:34:44.860 many, many times. He jumped out immediately in all of the writings he did about Trump and podcasts he

00:34:50.080 did about Trump and testimony he gave about Trump becoming absolutely obsessed with the man.

00:34:55.120 I give you Glenn Close. I just want to be a part of your life. Oh, this is the way you do it,

00:35:01.860 huh? Shut up at my apartment. What am I supposed to do? You won't answer my calls. You change your 1.00

00:35:06.180 number. I mean, I'm not going to be ignored, Dan. Yes, that's Michael Cohen today. He makes his

00:35:14.140 living based on Donald Trump. He talks about Donald Trump. Even on the stand, he seemed a little

00:35:17.920 wistful about his earlier time when he mattered to Donald Trump. And now he's just like everything

00:35:23.220 about this guy is defined by Donald Trump. Um, he did switch his tune. I mean, I like, okay,

00:35:31.140 he has lied so many times. It's hard to keep up. Um, but he's praised Trump repeatedly. I'll just

00:35:38.540 give you a little, okay, here he is in Sot 3 in a montage. One thing Donald Trump is, he's a

00:35:45.940 compassionate man. He's a man of great intellect, great intuition, and great abilities. Mr. Trump's

00:35:51.980 memory is fantastic. And I've never come across a situation where Mr. Trump has said something

00:35:58.520 that's not accurate. Mr. Trump truly cares about America. He loves this country. He's an amazing

00:36:05.140 negotiator, maybe the best ever in the history of this world. The words the media should be using

00:36:10.240 to describe Mr. Trump are generous, compassionate, principled, empathetic, kind, humble, honest,

00:36:21.440 and genuine. He's not lying. He was protecting a friend. There's a difference. What is the difference?

00:36:27.000 The difference is he was being a true friend. He was, it didn't matter to him. He will ultimately,

00:36:32.880 and I've said this so many times, he will ultimately go down in history as the greatest president.

00:36:37.740 Oh my God. With Chris Cuomo, who, by the way, has got his hands totally dirty in this whole thing,

00:36:43.260 too. So that's, that's the government star witness today, Phil. I mean, I realize he changed his tune,

00:36:49.760 but he, it's so self-serving. A jury will see through this.

00:36:54.680 I hope a jury will see through it, but we're talking about New York after all. And we've,

00:36:59.560 we've well documented that this jury, Alvin Bragg is counting on this jury to be sort of in the bag

00:37:05.540 for bragging against Trump. You know, when you've got a lawyer who is surreptitiously recording a

00:37:12.940 client and then basically saying this little snippet of a conversation proves all the other things that

00:37:19.620 I'm saying that are negative about him, which, by the way, weren't recorded, it just defies

00:37:24.120 credibility. There's just no way in the world that a rational jury in a rational legal system

00:37:29.180 would buy off on any of this, Megan. You've got this individual who's capable of saying all of

00:37:35.640 the things that you just played in that sot. And then fast forward to today, everything that he says

00:37:41.220 under oath before this jury is going to be diametrically different. Normally we would say

00:37:46.280 that that person is a compulsive liar and is not the kind of person you want to build a felony

00:37:51.260 prosecution around. They have not proven the elements of this case. There's been no evidence

00:37:56.540 yet in this case that Donald Trump committed a crime. They're going to have to hang their hat

00:38:01.240 entirely on the testimony of this liar. They're going to have to get a jury to say, 0.96

00:38:06.660 you know what, all the other times he's lied, we're going to give him a pass. We believe beyond

00:38:11.380 a reasonable doubt he's telling the truth here in court. And it's going to be all done without

00:38:15.640 any corroboration. There's no physical evidence. There's not going to be any documents. You're not

00:38:19.800 going to have Donald Trump writing a letter saying, hey, Michael, I want you to use this money. I want you

00:38:24.700 to pay it for something and I want to record it on the books in another way. No, this is payment for

00:38:29.100 legal fees or legal matters. And that's how it was legal expenses, which is even more ambiguous.

00:38:35.560 That's the word they used. And where's the accountant? Yeah, well, that's exactly right.

00:38:40.860 I mean, the CFO is in jail. He's at Rikers and I don't expect him. There's a real question about

00:38:45.700 whether they're going to drag him in and testify. And if they don't, whether they're going to get an

00:38:48.620 adverse inference drawn by jurist instruction, we'll see. But here's Michael Cohen. I gave you

00:38:55.060 the he's the greatest thing since sliced bread. That was like Glenn Close and Michael Douglas in

00:38:59.680 the beginning of the movie. The hot elevator sex, the days and days behind closed doors while the

00:39:05.260 wife was away. It was actually only one night. That was the beginning. Then Trump started to ignore 0.83

00:39:11.660 the calls. And much as it had the same effect on Glenn Close in fatal attraction. Here's what it

00:39:17.880 did to Michael Cohen. All right. I'll show you. Let's start with top five. Michael Cohen here with

00:39:23.100 another Michael Cohen reacts. Well, I've been receiving countless phone calls by people all

00:39:28.340 concerned because they're hearing on the media that Donald Trump is going to run again and he's 0.99

00:39:33.500 going to make this fucked up bullshit announcement sometime after the midterm elections. All right. 1.00

00:39:38.840 I still to this day maintain that he is not doing it. It is still part of this great grift of Donald

00:39:45.340 Trump. Now, for me personally, I hope to God that this fucking scumbag runs. I really do. And you 1.00

00:39:51.560 ask me why? Well, first of all, because 24 hours after that, I'm going to put together my own team.

00:39:56.940 I want to run as a Democrat. I want to put myself up on a stage against this fat fuck, this orange 1.00

00:40:03.900 crusted mandarin. Oompa loompa. So let's see. Let's see if I'm right. Stay tuned. I'll be back. 1.00

00:40:12.080 Then he took his bunny off the stove.

00:40:16.240 This is their star witness.

00:40:19.780 Well, I mean, I don't use the word grifter very often. I'm not going to use it now,

00:40:24.240 but that very much seems like someone who's going to say one thing when it's profitable one way and

00:40:29.060 say something that's the exact opposite when it's profitable the other way. And the other thing is

00:40:32.540 when he's out there, you know, praising Trump. First of all, I happen to agree with him back

00:40:36.520 then. But he's not just praising Trump because he is like a narcissist indirectly praising himself.

00:40:42.160 This is how smart Trump is, how good he is and all this stuff. And I'm his right hand man. I'm his

00:40:46.120 fixer. So it must be a reflection on my own greatness as well. But, you know, the idea that this guy is a

00:40:51.280 convicted perjurer, he is a confirmed liar, he's a scoundrel of the highest order. I am now 1.00

00:40:57.400 retrospectively reanalyzing Judge Engeron's decision in the E. Gene Carroll case where he

00:41:03.680 addresses Michael Cohen. And he specifically says it's very funny why he said it. This man is a

00:41:08.220 convicted perjurer. He's a liar. Some anger on was anger on was the fraud case, the 400 million 1.00

00:41:14.740 dollar fraud anger on was. Yes, the 455 million. And Cohen testified in that case. Keep going. Yes.

00:41:21.440 Not the E. Gene Carroll. Sorry, just to clarify that there. Angeron said as a matter of his decision,

00:41:27.480 Michael Cohen is a convicted perjurer. And while some triers of fact might not give much weight to

00:41:32.380 the words of a liar, I believe him here. I'm paraphrasing, but it's almost verbatim. 0.99

00:41:37.040 It's almost perfect. And now that I'm listening to that and rethinking it, it's like anger on was

00:41:41.520 phrasing what the jury has to spew out in terms of coming to a conviction here. Yeah, he's a convicted

00:41:46.200 perjurer. Some jurors might think he's a liar now, but we choose to believe him now because 0.90

00:41:50.580 once a perjurer, not always a perjurer. But I think anger on actually telegraphed and laid up

00:41:55.980 the script that the jury is going to gobble up to come to their foregone conclusion. 0.99

00:42:01.680 Everyone around him is a liar. Michael Cohen is a liar. He had a lawyer and continues to have a 1.00

00:42:07.500 lawyer. He's still represented by this guy, David Schwartz, who you may recall, Michael Cohen got

00:42:12.020 in trouble a couple of months ago when he was trying to get out of jail not long ago, late,

00:42:15.660 late 23. And he cited a bunch of case law to the judge. It was all made up.

00:42:20.080 It was fake cases that he used some AI generator to come up with. And his lawyer was this guy,

00:42:25.880 David Schwartz. And I've got to show you this. David Schwartz came on my show at NBC shortly after

00:42:30.700 this whole story broke about the $130,000 payment and so on and so forth. And now we know that that

00:42:36.720 Trump reimbursed Cohen for the 130. We know that. And it's almost better if Trump just would have

00:42:41.680 done it himself because you can make unlimited donations to your own campaign, but you can't have

00:42:45.260 a third party do it, which is how they're trying to get him. But anyway, there's no question that

00:42:49.240 Trump reimbursed Cohen for the 130. But the first defense that Cohen came out with was,

00:42:54.540 I was not reimbursed. And I just did this out of my love, again, back to the Glenn Close in the

00:43:01.600 elevator, for Donald Trump. And Schwartz came on my show and tried to spew this nonsense. Look at this.

00:43:07.060 He got approached. It'll take $130,000 to make this go away. He had to make a decision. Okay.

00:43:16.520 I get it. I'm not even challenging on that. I'm challenging on the impossibility that he paid

00:43:22.620 130 grand for something he didn't do and never sought reimbursement from his client.

00:43:27.300 When you're looking at it in a vacuum, like when, but if you understand the relationship here,

00:43:32.220 it makes complete sense that he's approached, am I going to go to the boss or am I not going to go

00:43:37.700 to the boss? All right. What do I do? He chose not to go to the boss. He chose to take care of this

00:43:43.360 thing. Why wouldn't he get 130? Why would he pay 130 grand of his own money?

00:43:47.320 Well, you know what? You're going to, when Michael Cohen does come out, you're going to,

00:43:50.540 you're going to find out the mechanics of that. No, you're not answering. You're dodging.

00:43:53.780 You're getting out of bounds. I am answering you. What's the truth?

00:43:55.940 The truth is he loves, he loves the boss and he did it out of love. He did it out of love and he

00:44:12.220 did it out of loyalty. All right. So they laughed openly at him. We know that he was reimbursed.

00:44:17.780 Of course he was reimbursed and that's his lawyer. He's the lawyer is a liar. Cohen is a liar. The jury's 1.00

00:44:25.660 not stupid. I know they hate Trump, but they're not stupid. And I just gave you one soundbite. 1.00

00:44:31.400 Here's a little bit more of Michael Cohen on the record since the breakup talking about Trump.

00:44:36.180 I think he's hit the panic button a while ago. However, what he's very good at is hiding it

00:44:42.740 in front of the camera. He's calm, cool and collect because he's a sociopath. 0.98

00:44:47.420 I looked at him and I said to myself, boy, what a sad looking, pathetic, deflated individual. 0.99

00:44:56.140 He is playing to the lowest denominator of American that exists in this country. He is 1.00

00:45:02.880 truly the most dangerous person right now in this country and possibly the world.

00:45:10.340 Trump 2024, more like Trump 20 to 24 years.

00:45:14.120 Okay. So the thing is, the prosecution's trying to front a lot of this in direct. So to take the

00:45:24.420 sting out of what's going to be an absolutely brutal cross, but there's no way they can take

00:45:30.100 all the state. They'd spend every day, all day for the next two weeks, beating him up. If they really

00:45:33.920 wanted to get after everything, the defense is going to do to him. And I just can't believe that

00:45:38.140 once the defense is done, the jury is going to be having any feeling other than I want to vomit,

00:45:42.980 get him out of here. But Megan, you say that the jury's not dumb. The problem is they're partisan 0.97

00:45:49.260 in all likelihood. And that's a big, it's a big distinction. They're not going to do what they're

00:45:52.860 going to do out of stupidity. They're going to do it out of partisan prejudice. And, um, and that's 1.00

00:45:58.260 what I think is a foregone conclusion, but everyone should rewatch that Michael Cohen and just

00:46:02.220 appreciate confession through rejection. Everything that Cohen just said about Trump is true of himself,

00:46:06.040 but making one thing about Phil, I sorry, I cut you off. Um, you mentioned it a moment ago,

00:46:10.040 and it's something that people should really understand by reimbursing Cohen. The allegation

00:46:14.580 is that it was a disguised campaign contribution because, uh, you know, Cohen made it and then he

00:46:20.420 got repaid for it. The bottom line is, even if that's the case, and that's the theory of the case,

00:46:24.980 it should be Cohen who should be the defendant in this and not Trump, because like you astutely

00:46:29.500 observed, you can't, you know, over donate to your own campaign. And so if it was Trump camp

00:46:33.920 donating to his own campaign in kind or whatever, it's not a crime. If it's Cohen who did it because

00:46:38.680 he got reimbursed and it exceeded his campaign contribution, Cohen should be the one on the

00:46:43.260 defense. Well, here's the other thing. Here's the other thing, Phil. I heard Andy McCarthy raising

00:46:46.720 this point. And as usual with Andy, it was a good one. Um, who was defrauded? Who was the victim of

00:46:55.600 this alleged fraud? Because Michael Cohen paid the money, Michael Cohen and everybody around him,

00:47:01.720 the testimony is consistent. He got paid back and Trump paid him double what he paid out so that

00:47:08.740 he could pay full taxes, 50% on all the monies. So New York state did not get defrauded.

00:47:14.000 The only thing that was defrauded was a book allegedly in which they didn't write down

00:47:20.300 reimbursement for hush money payment to stormy Daniels. They wrote legal expenses paid to Michael

00:47:26.100 Cohen pursuant to a retainer agreement. And the testimony was there was no written at retainer,

00:47:30.440 retainer agreement. But meanwhile, all these lawyers are coming forward to saying,

00:47:33.060 I never have one written down. I I've had so many cases in which I don't have a written down

00:47:36.780 retainer, even if you're supposed to anyway. So who was defrauded? The book, the book was given 0.61

00:47:42.480 bad information that was kept internally at Trump organization. The book wasn't even filed as an

00:47:50.580 addendum to a tax return or to some sort of corporate submission that was required.

00:47:54.660 It went on the shelf and it sat there until Alvin Bragg subpoenaed it. So who was defrauded?

00:48:02.500 Because fraud in the ether is not actionable. And the law is really clear on that. They won't

00:48:08.920 enforce fraud claims unless there's an identifiable victim, which is one of the reasons why the whole

00:48:13.060 fraud came claim under anger on was so outrageous. But there, at least we had a specific statute

00:48:18.060 saying it was OK. Yeah, well, anger on, of course, doesn't require any victims before he

00:48:24.280 labels something fraud. Neither does Letitia James. And apparently neither does Alvin Bragg.

00:48:30.680 In the in the tick tock video with Michael Cohen, when he says he might run and, you know, in 20 because

00:48:36.240 he wants to be sort of on stage. Well, that's what's happening right now. He's got his way. He is

00:48:41.880 on stage. This whole thing is a theatrical stage production. It's not a court of law. This is

00:48:47.340 nothing that's based on reality in the term in terms of law, because for the reasons you pointed

00:48:52.360 out, there's no victims, no victims, no fraud. It's the only time in history that I know of where

00:48:56.960 two misdemeanors, arguably with the statute of limitations having passed, are combined together

00:49:02.640 to make a felony or 36 felony fraud counts where nobody was defrauded. It's absolutely ridiculous 0.91

00:49:10.200 to call this thing a court of law. This is simply a theatrical production. And Michael Cohen has

00:49:17.100 gotten his way. He is now on center stage with Donald Trump and his tech talk followers are just

00:49:23.780 going insane. And his and his own star in his own mind is on the rise. But let there be no doubt,

00:49:30.320 Megan, that this jury is going to make their decision based on their feelings about not about Donald Trump,

00:49:37.300 not about what's going on in this courtroom. I can only hope that there's one or two, maybe even

00:49:43.060 three that will say, look, you know what, even though we don't like Donald Trump, we don't see a crime

00:49:48.260 here. I'm Megan Kelly, host of the Megan Kelly show on Sirius XM. It's your home for open, honest and

00:49:55.460 provocative conversations with the most interesting and important political, legal and cultural figures

00:50:00.380 today. You can catch the Megan Kelly show on Triumph, a Sirius XM channel featuring lots of hosts you may

00:50:06.680 know and probably love. Great people like Dr. Laura, Glenn Beck, Nancy Grace, Dave Ramsey, and yours truly,

00:50:14.640 Megan Kelly. You can stream the Megan Kelly show on Sirius XM at home or anywhere you are. No car required.

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00:50:44.560 months free. Offer details apply.

00:50:51.280 In my job, I think that people trust me because they know I give them facts and I've researched what I say.

00:50:58.680 I don't just come out here and read what I what I saw on X. And over the years, people build up a trust of you,

00:51:05.160 you know, with you like, OK, she hasn't misled me. I can take it to the bank. And they know that like to deliver

00:51:11.040 these complex things in a way that's digestible does take a lot of work. I would say that's the difference between

00:51:15.920 myself and many, many in the news industry. Like I will spend hours figuring it out. So my audience

00:51:21.660 doesn't have to.

00:51:23.260 I watch everybody and everything. It's what I do for a living. I'm completely aware that you didn't

00:51:29.580 stumble into this audience. This is real work.

00:51:33.320 Mm hmm. And everyone can do it. I mean, it doesn't matter what it is that that's your particular

00:51:36.820 focus.

00:51:37.140 Everybody can do it if they're self-aware. They have to find things that are like I'll give you

00:51:43.600 an example. I was an atrocious student because I wasn't passionate about Saturn. I didn't want to

00:51:48.120 learn that. I just didn't, you know. And so I think what hurts people is they're also not willing to be

00:51:54.480 humble enough to say I'm not good at this and I don't like that, you know. And I think, right,

00:52:00.060 you like that. I'm glad that you picked up on that. There's something really powerful to that.

00:52:03.100 I'm going to say it again. You have to have the humility to say I'm not good at this and I don't

00:52:08.080 like that. And what happens is if you have that sentence with yourself, then you end up going to

00:52:12.960 the place of I am good at this and I do like that. And so I'll give you an example.

00:52:16.920 Don't you think, Gary, this is another reason why false praise from one's parents is not,

00:52:21.640 is counterproductive.

00:52:22.900 It's devastating.

00:52:23.820 The parent doesn't have to be putting the child down all the time, but should not be falsely

00:52:27.220 praising things that the kid is actually not good at.

00:52:29.740 I don't know if you can see this. I literally, do you see the goosebumps I have right now?

00:52:33.100 Oh, yeah. Yes, I do.

00:52:35.420 Do you know why? You know why I have this? I know you love your mama.

00:52:39.000 Well, I love my mama the most, but let me say from where you're going, I believe that eighth

00:52:43.900 place trophies over the last 30 years have done more mental health damage. Do you understand

00:52:50.880 that these kids, and I'm very fortunate, we hire so many kids right out of school. I have

00:52:54.640 hundred, I mean, seven, 800 employees, maybe even a thousand now that are 22 to 25. And I can

00:53:00.980 tell you unequivocally, and so much of my audience is this age. I read all my DMs. I,

00:53:05.500 like you, do the research. I read. When I tell you the amount of kids today that are scared

00:53:11.300 to lose, because we taught them that losing was bad, it's so bad that we'll give you a

00:53:16.780 trophy, even though your team lost 14 to one in this game. And you'll appreciate this. I

00:53:23.240 think this will make sense to you. All of this was well-intended. It wasn't like all these

00:53:27.960 parents came out 30 years ago and said, let's create soft kids that are zoo animals that can't

00:53:33.680 live in the wild and are going to have really tough lives because they don't have a backbone

00:53:37.580 or they can't deal with adversity or they don't have the stomach for pressure. They just thought

00:53:44.420 they were doing the right thing. The problem was it wasn't. To your point, you can do anything

00:53:49.000 is true for about a nanosecond until you start trying. I can tell you right now that I see

00:53:54.340 unlimited six, seven, eight-year-old kids on sports fields all around New York City that

00:54:00.040 immediately I can tell you that child is not capable of playing in the National Basketball

00:54:04.800 Association. You know what I mean? And that's okay. Like there is, when I walk through a classroom

00:54:10.380 and see the art hanging that the kids made in sixth grade, I can save a lot of time right

00:54:14.680 now. It is not true that any one of those kids can make art that will sell at Sotheby's

00:54:20.160 in the future. That's great. You can try everything, but you can't be everything. And when you fall

00:54:28.740 in love with who you are versus who you wish you were, then it becomes game over. I, in fifth

00:54:34.840 grade, wanted to play for the New York Jets. I, by sixth grade, realized I was more likely to buy

00:54:42.100 the New York Jets than to play for them. That made me go into entrepreneurship, not professional

00:54:48.240 sports. And by the way- I love this story, by the way. I want to hear the story. You finish your

00:54:52.680 point, but I want to hear the story about your mom and your sweater. I thank you for that. I'm always

00:54:57.900 happy to share the greatest human being of all time, my mom's story. To finish my story, this is very

00:55:03.320 important, I think, for a lot of people. This is a big one, actually. I'm 48 years old. When I was

00:55:09.980 getting D's and F's in school in the late 80s and early 90s, as you know, and a lot of people

00:55:14.760 listening right now, entrepreneurship wasn't cool. It wasn't a thing. Everything was about what's the

00:55:20.900 best university you can get into, and then what's the best job you can get into. That was the status.

00:55:27.960 That was the cool. That was the, right? There was, I don't, when I heard entrepreneur

00:55:32.240 in my youth, that meant that you were like a loser and you made pretend that you worked. 0.92

00:55:37.700 Yeah. And when you heard about somebody dropping out of college to go pursue, you were like, oh my 0.90

00:55:42.480 God, loser. 1.00

00:55:43.780 Loser. And so, you know, I, but I was willing to lean into who I was because that's where my 1.00

00:55:50.100 happiness was. And then I got fortunate that the timing of the world went in my favor. And now I walk

00:55:56.860 around the world and people want to take a picture with me. This is nothing I even thought in a million

00:56:00.220 years. All I wanted to do was sell wine for my dad's wine store. Do you know what I mean? Like,

00:56:04.180 I just wanted to be a businessman. I didn't call an entrepreneur. I'm going to be a businessman when

00:56:08.080 I grow up. That's just what I want for everybody. Don't worry what we think. Don't worry what I

00:56:12.340 think or Megan thinks or your friends think or your family thinks or the neighbors and definitely not

00:56:16.100 anonymous people, anonymous people on social media. Think about what you think. Think about what you

00:56:21.560 think because you're going to be 90 years old one day laying there. And if you have regret,

00:56:25.320 I promise you that's going to taste a lot worse than people making fun of you because you want to

00:56:29.960 open up a bike shop or you're quitting your corporate job to do landscaping. This judgment of

00:56:35.900 others is destroying our happiness. And, and it must stop as if anybody else's judgment has anything to

00:56:42.780 actually do with your life. It's so true. Oh, I love what you said. And I love it. I've heard you say

00:56:48.600 that you don't believe in regrets. And I think my audience knows same. I just, I don't really have

00:56:54.060 many. I don't spend my time thinking about that kind of thing. I think it's a real mental block

00:56:58.120 toward going forward and advancing your life, your wellbeing, your happiness. But anyway,

00:57:02.140 one of the reasons you're like this and wound up a happy, seemingly well-adjusted man is mom.

00:57:08.040 And that brings me to the Jets and your childhood experience. Can you just tell us that? I love this

00:57:12.740 story. Yeah. Thank you. I'm going to try, I'm going to try to compose it here. Like this is such a big

00:57:18.300 deal. Like it's, you know, when I tell you that without a shadow of a doubt, it is uncomfortably

00:57:25.140 clear to me that 89.6% of why I have happiness and contentness. And by the way, back to my

00:57:32.760 professional success, I'm detached from my professional success. Meaning I love my career.

00:57:38.640 I love being good at it. I'm humbled by the admiration and opportunities of doing things like

00:57:43.640 this. It leads me to, but I don't think it defines who I am. Like, I don't think like I'm good or a

00:57:50.900 good guy or a winner because I'm good at business. I think it's a skill I have that is now kind of

00:57:56.600 revered a little bit more than it has. It's always been respected, but now it's cool, right? It's pop

00:58:01.140 culture. And all of that is because of my mom. My mom was back to what I just heard you say. I think

00:58:07.160 you would love her parenting style. She was rainbow and sunshine. Like I never had, I had nothing but joy.

00:58:13.640 around my household, except when I did things that were not right, which led to real accountability.

00:58:21.360 I was grounded and punished four times a year, like clockwork, because I brought back a report card

00:58:27.860 that looked like garbage and that was unacceptable. And other than that, I was a pretty good kid. But

00:58:33.320 if I ever did anything, like I would, first of all, let me go to a place that I think may resonate

00:58:37.780 with you. I never even contemplated disrespecting my mom or dad.

00:58:41.700 Oh gosh, my mom. I mean, I did it because I was a bratty teenage girl, but man, oh man, my mom,

00:58:48.340 Linda made me pay. 1.00

00:58:50.480 Yeah. And by the way, Tamara made my sister Liz pay for the same teenage girl thing. I never went

00:58:55.640 through that phase, but on real talk, it was because I was worried. She was an old school,

00:59:00.720 like we don't play that around here. Like, like we are in an era now. Look, I can wrap my head around

00:59:07.140 why we stopped spanking our kids. Though, if I'm being unbelievably transparent, like I could get,

00:59:13.400 you know, get a couple of glasses of wine in me and I could, I can get into like a thoughtful of

00:59:16.860 like, is there an angle there? But, but the fact that we don't even ground our kids anymore in

00:59:22.300 modern parenting, are you kidding me? All we're teaching people is that there's no consequences

00:59:27.520 in life. Do you know why everyone's so interesting on Twitter? Because you can't punch them in the face

00:59:34.260 when they say something to you. I grew up in Jersey in very blue collar, lower middle class

00:59:40.000 neighborhoods. Let me tell you what happened when we would say something fresh to each other.

00:59:45.020 Somebody might get punched in the face, right? And so we live in a society now where there aren't

00:59:51.240 ramifications, there aren't consequences. And I couldn't agree more with people understanding,

00:59:58.440 like, actually, actually, maybe you'll like this. Do you know why the book cover is purple?

01:00:02.100 Because we become, and boy, oh boy, nobody understands this better than you and this

01:00:06.140 audience. America's become unbelievably red and blue. Like, woo, we are really loving red and blue.

01:00:13.220 When it comes to parenting, if you can be purple, then you win. To your point, and you said it earlier, 0.99

01:00:19.220 I'm not talking about scolding your children. I'm not talking about what a lot of parents did to

01:00:23.400 their children. Listen, I'm going to be vulnerable here. My grandmother, what she did to my father,

01:00:28.600 and she was a Russian woman in the 30s, 40s, and 50s, 60s, 70s. This is no judgment. They grew up in

01:00:33.820 a, people don't understand the USSR, Megan. The USSR was like North Korea. You weren't allowed to leave.

01:00:39.520 It was jail. It was, I promise for everyone that's listening here, which means you listen to a lot of

01:00:44.540 politics and world news and care about this stuff, you have no clue what the USSR was from 1917 to 1991.

01:00:50.880 It was bad, bad. So I don't judge my grandma, but I'm very aware of what a human looks like when they

01:00:57.920 don't get positive reinforcement, when they get negative, when they get that all the time. My

01:01:02.180 father is one of those people. And it, it really, it's a real challenge to have true self-esteem

01:01:08.340 when you're parented in that negative of an environment. So I'm not saying to everybody to do

01:01:14.880 that, but to parent in a delusional way where everything is great and you're the best and go

01:01:22.000 fight your kids fights. Megan, do you know the parents go to school and try to argue with parents

01:01:26.260 to give their kid a better grade? Do you know how crazy that is? I know it's absolutely nuts and

01:01:30.940 beyond in corporate America too. I've told a story before, but we had a friend at a huge investment

01:01:35.300 bank in New York city. We had dinner with he and his wife and he was telling us that he actually

01:01:39.200 received a phone call from a new hire at this major American bank from a new hire's mom complaining

01:01:47.080 about her son's tough schedule. Yeah. I mean, I mean, to me, look, you know, what's amazing.

01:01:53.260 You know what, you know, you know, what's amazing about being born in the Soviet union and living in

01:01:56.900 America. You realize that people have options. My parents were, were granted jobs that they couldn't

01:02:03.340 transfer from in their early twenties before we moved to America. When, when people come to my company

01:02:08.560 and we have a, listen, I believe in a happy culture in a way that you can't imagine, but not

01:02:13.200 delusion, not entitlement. And when people are like, yo, this blows, this stinks, this sucks, this, 0.90

01:02:18.660 this, I, you know, I always, honestly, I take it pretty serious. I'm not ivory tower. I try to attack 0.95

01:02:23.900 it. I try to have meaningful conversation. We go try to address it. But when somebody comes a second,

01:02:28.140 third, fourth, fifth time and complains about things that don't matter, like it's one of the most

01:02:33.400 joyous things that in my career that I'm able to say is like, Hey, unlike me who was born in a

01:02:39.780 communist country. And luckily I got out and definitely unlike my parents and grandparents,

01:02:44.560 you have options. You don't, you don't like this company, but you don't want to have said to that

01:02:48.940 mom. I said, mom, first, and this is that I'm going to tell you exactly what I would have said,

01:02:53.260 not for this show, but real life. I would have said, first mom, I think it's very sweet that you're

01:02:58.040 calling for your son in one part of me. The other part of me thinks that your son's in big trouble.

01:03:02.960 Because if you're fighting his fights and he's a grown ass man, he's got a big problem. 0.81

01:03:07.200 And here's the answer to your question. Yeah. And here's the answer to your question. 0.75

01:03:11.300 He's more than welcome to do this schedule. We hired him for a reason. We think he's got talent,

01:03:15.040 but if this schedule is too tough for him, he really needs to consider doing something else.

01:03:20.760 Yeah. That's what I always say. I always say on my team, you know, you don't want to work

01:03:23.580 weekends. Occasionally, you don't want to work a late night when news breaks, go work at key bank.

01:03:27.580 It's wonderful. You know exactly what the hours are. Go show up at nine before you're good.

01:03:31.140 And I want everyone to hear this because this is an important nuance. And I don't judge them. You

01:03:36.000 don't want to? Good. Know yourself. No problem. News may not be free. Mazel tov. You want to go

01:03:42.980 chill? Do you? Do you? I chose to completely punt school. Everyone told me that I should get A's and

01:03:49.700 B's. I told myself I should get D's and F's. And it was joyous. It was joyous until I got grounded

01:03:56.400 every marketing period. But it was more than fun for me. Same now in real life. I may want to be

01:04:02.740 hungry and build meaningful, everlasting empires that have positive impact and selfish and selfless

01:04:09.700 goals. But if you are structured a different way and you value something else, and to your point,

01:04:16.100 the occasional discomfort of needing to do something that's out of the normal structure,

01:04:20.920 then that's amazing. You shouldn't work in an entrepreneurial, in my world or your world,

01:04:26.060 fast-paced reality. You shouldn't be a fireman if you're not willing to wake up when the fire

01:04:30.340 happens. Right? And that's okay. That's very okay. This is important. I do not judge people

01:04:36.100 that do not have my ambition or work ethic or interests. I just want them to be themselves.

01:04:42.620 But what I don't want, and this is where I think you're going, and the theme of this,

01:04:46.260 and this will land with everyone, I don't want people to think they can get compensated

01:04:51.040 when they're not that person. Right? That's right.

01:04:54.380 If you don't want to be the, let me make this simple for everyone to understand. If you don't

01:04:57.900 want the pressure of being the quarterback, and you want to be the backup linebacker,

01:05:03.420 well, then you better not expect to get quarterback money.

01:05:06.980 That's exactly right.

01:05:08.540 So if you're like, can we have the conversation, everyone? Like, you're allowed to do whatever you

01:05:13.100 want. But when you start sneaking into entitlement, that you should, there is no should. You want,

01:05:18.960 you, hey, everybody, everyone who's listening, you want to get way happier? You want things to go

01:05:22.860 way better? Let me give you something. Eliminate the word should from your vocabulary. There is no

01:05:28.260 should. It's too nuanced. What do you mean should? This is why I get so crazy, Megan, about everyone

01:05:35.060 judging everybody else. You have no idea what's going on in their house. You don't know their

01:05:38.840 background. You don't know what's going on today. What? I said something the other day,

01:05:42.600 a kid comes in yelling about their manager, who's been good to them for three years. I hadn't had

01:05:47.740 the information yet to know what was going on. But I said to the kid, I said, but you've loved

01:05:52.240 her for three years. What if she's been, what, what if you're struggling with her for the last

01:05:56.680 three weeks? Because three weeks ago, she found out that her mom is terminally ill, and she hasn't

01:06:01.020 told anybody yet. Maybe that's why she's not showing up to the meeting, and over coddling every

01:06:08.040 moment. Like, you know what I mean? I don't think we, you know, people love, people love throwing

01:06:12.320 around empathy until it's not working for them. Thanks for listening to The Megan Kelly Show. 0.99

01:06:20.340 No BS, no agenda, and no fear.

The Megyn Kelly Show - May 19, 2024

Best of the Week： Biden Agrees to Debate Trump, Michael Cohen's Lies, and Jen Psaki's Fake News

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