The Megyn Kelly Show - Biden Blinks on Balloon, and Detransitioner Sues Her Enablers, with Rob O'Neill, Chloe Cole, and Chrissy Clark

00:00:00.520 Welcome to The Megyn Kelly Show, your home for open, honest, and provocative conversations.

00:00:11.720 Hey everyone, I'm Megyn Kelly. Welcome to The Megyn Kelly Show and happy Monday.

00:00:16.120 The China spy balloon was shot down over the weekend, finally.

00:00:20.920 Was everybody in your circle talking about this? I mean, everybody.

00:00:24.340 I know, I was talking about, I went to my daughter Yardley's soccer game on Saturday.

00:00:27.640 All the parents are sitting there on the sidelines, and it was all we were talking about.

00:00:31.420 People were showing pictures of, you know, what looked like it being shot down in Billings.

00:00:35.880 Remember, there was that one report, and then we got the report laid about in the Atlantic Ocean.

00:00:41.320 It's just, I don't know what it is about this story, but everybody's interested in it.

00:00:45.660 It brings up a lot, right? Like, how did they do this? The Chinese are getting bolder.

00:00:50.200 We're getting more feckless. It touches a lot of buttons.

00:00:54.180 Because President Biden allowed his Department of Defense to wait days to shoot it down.

00:00:59.340 In fact, we're told they overruled him.

00:01:01.780 He's the commander-in-chief. He issued a direct order, according to him, and they said,

00:01:05.320 Grandpa, take a seat. That's what he's now saying.

00:01:08.480 That's my editorial in there, too.

00:01:10.240 But he's basically saying, they said, not till it's over the ocean.

00:01:13.760 So he's blaming them, and they're kind of saying, well, we did what was responsible.

00:01:18.140 Then, his administration tried to blame it on Trump, saying Trump did it, too.

00:01:23.160 They wanted it to deflect and say Trump did it, too.

00:01:26.180 And we'll tell you the latest on what Team Trump is saying on that and what our own investigation has shown.

00:01:30.800 Plus, in the news today, the Grammys pushes Satan and BDSM on American children.

00:01:36.520 Oh, that's fun.

00:01:37.660 Joining me now, veteran Navy SEAL and one of the most highly decorated combat veterans of our time, Robert O'Neill.

00:01:44.380 Robert's also the host of the podcast, The Operator.

00:01:47.860 Rob, great to have you back on the show. How are you?

00:01:50.220 I'm great, Megan. How are you doing?

00:01:51.180 Hey, thanks for having me, too.

00:01:52.080 It's always a pleasure to get on here because I think we're going to solve a lot of problems

00:01:55.620 and bring up a bunch of other stuff that people aren't aware of.

00:01:58.760 Yes, good. It's always a pleasure for me.

00:02:00.620 You're one of my very, very favorite guests.

00:02:03.160 And what great timing for us in the wake of all this balloon stuff.

00:02:07.800 So just to set the table, the New York Times reporting, per Pentagon officials,

00:02:12.500 the spy balloon was remotely maneuverable to some degree by the Chinese

00:02:18.480 and that it was first spotted in the United States last Saturday, January 28th.

00:02:25.260 Right. That's January 28th.

00:02:26.720 So like not this past Saturday, but the Saturday before that, then and somebody in Team Biden was briefed on it.

00:02:33.000 And then the president was personally alerted on Tuesday when it was in northern Idaho and asked for military options,

00:02:42.080 according to the New York Times. And then he was told, I guess he claims now that he said,

00:02:49.100 let's shoot it down. But that General Milley and Secretary Austin advised against that while it was over land.

00:02:55.260 Thus, they waited until Saturday when it was over the Atlantic to shoot it down.

00:02:59.060 First of all, what do you make of that alleged chain of events?

00:03:03.560 Well, I'm sure they spotted it over the Aleutian Islands in Alaska.

00:03:06.940 And I don't think this is the first time that China's ever done this with the balloons.

00:03:10.980 I'm sure we've seen it before. And a lot of times there's no there's really no need to tell the public a lot.

00:03:15.180 I mean, if it's if it's out over the, you know, the Pacific, just because if there's nothing you can do about it,

00:03:21.340 there's no need to freak people out.

00:03:22.780 But it wasn't really until it got over Montana that I think some private pilots spotted it and they reported it and went up to NORAD.

00:03:29.400 And eventually people had it. But my father took a picture of it from his hot tub.

00:03:33.200 And my brother, who's who's got his own morning show in Butte, Montana, said, hey,

00:03:38.000 he helps me with some of my podcast ideas and gives you some links.

00:03:40.780 He says, hey, there's this weird balloon over Montana. Here's the link in case you don't hear about it.

00:03:44.740 I was like, oh, we're going to hear about it. We're definitely going to hear about it.

00:03:47.220 It's a matter of when. And then, you know, they could have done something about it.

00:03:51.300 They're shooting it down. It is provocative, but so is flying in our airspace.

00:03:54.780 You remember what they did with our P-3 Orion a few years back when they brought it down with fighter jet escorts and reverse engineering like they do?

00:04:01.080 I mean, I don't know why they need to do that when they can send their spies at NYU to steal all of our stuff like they do anyway.

00:04:06.960 But for the president to say, yeah, I wanted to shoot it down, but then they told me I couldn't.

00:04:13.460 He kind of said the quiet part out loud that he's admitting he's not in charge.

00:04:17.080 The Pentagon does not overrule the commander in chief.

00:04:19.480 I'm not sure if everyone knows how the chain of command works, but if he says shoot it down, shoot it down.

00:04:23.300 And that's how it works. General Milley doesn't have a say.

00:04:26.200 And he can be an advisor, which he is. But, yeah, they said no.

00:04:29.400 And he agreed because he just does what he's told.

00:04:31.760 Plus, Rob, I mean, I admittedly know nothing about this, but there's a lot of open prairie in America.

00:04:37.640 There's a lot of open space in Montana in particular.

00:04:40.460 They're like, oh, well, you know, it wasn't safe to shoot it down when, you know, there are people on the ground.

00:04:43.600 Like as if every square inch of the United States is populated in the way that Manhattan is.

00:04:50.460 Yeah, it's just something they're going to say.

00:04:52.500 It's one of those things where it's easy to stare at your phone and yell because you think, you know, something is what it is.

00:04:56.960 Like the ocean is a lot bigger than people think.

00:04:58.760 Montana is a lot bigger than you think.

00:04:59.940 And we should have at least a little bit of the geometry to realize where and when you can shoot it down.

00:05:05.080 It actually reminded me of a story.

00:05:07.040 When we went to rescue Captain Phillips, we had to jump out of a C-17 over the Indian Ocean.

00:05:11.460 And we had these big garbage bags.

00:05:14.040 We won't get into what was in them.

00:05:15.400 But I asked that before I jumped, I asked the air crew, hey, are you going to throw these out into the Indian Ocean?

00:05:20.340 He goes, no, we're just going to land with them.

00:05:21.620 I'm like, dude, just throw them out.

00:05:22.440 And he said, what if we hit one of your boats?

00:05:24.400 And I said, I'll give you $10,000 if you can.

00:05:27.160 You're not going to hit anybody.

00:05:28.000 The odds aren't with you.

00:05:29.940 So they should have shot it down over Montana or before that.

00:05:32.080 But, I mean, they had to once the people see it and the president realized we see it.

00:05:36.000 They can't lie their way out of this one.

00:05:37.700 So we just monitor.

00:05:38.760 The funniest one was the meme when it flew over Missouri.

00:05:41.440 And someone put a meme of some dude having a barbecue, throwing a beer bottle at it, saying, this is how we handle it in Missouri.

00:05:48.740 But that's you just touched on it, right?

00:05:50.560 Because they didn't they did not make it public.

00:05:53.100 They didn't make it public when it was in Alaska.

00:05:54.920 The only reason it became public is because the locals in Montana started making a bill.

00:05:59.940 A bit about it, you know, a buzz about it.

00:06:02.540 And then the local NBC reported it.

00:06:05.100 And then it grew into a national story.

00:06:07.260 And all the while, the Biden administration, understanding full well this was happening,

00:06:12.040 was planning on still sending Secretary of State Blinken over there to meet with Xi Jinping.

00:06:16.500 The meeting was 100 percent still on.

00:06:19.920 And it wasn't until it started really blowing up nationally that they were like, oh, OK, oh, we canceled the meeting.

00:06:25.560 I mean, this is outrageous.

00:06:27.000 Bull, you didn't think it was outrageous.

00:06:28.840 You just bent the knee because we made you bend the knee.

00:06:32.860 Yeah.

00:06:33.040 You just got caught.

00:06:34.200 They should have shot it down and sent Secretary Blinken that day.

00:06:38.720 Go over there and meet with him.

00:06:39.740 Shot it down.

00:06:40.100 You can't, you know, like it or not, the world is a much safer place when America is strong.

00:06:45.700 And we're very, very weak right now.

00:06:46.960 And we're showing it to China's running.

00:06:49.840 They're running the other puppeteer.

00:06:51.280 We're just at the end of the strings dancing with with whoever's at the bottom of it.

00:06:55.280 Mm hmm.

00:06:56.340 I know.

00:06:56.900 Well, that's the problem is that just your schoolyard bully history, you know, not yours in particular.

00:07:03.720 I'm saying one's one's memories of those moments tell you when the bully starts to be provocative.

00:07:09.380 You really just have to punch him in the face.

00:07:11.320 There's no dancing around it.

00:07:12.800 That's how it ends.

00:07:13.760 Yeah.

00:07:14.380 So that's what they're doing.

00:07:16.240 And we're kind of like hiding behind the one apparatus on the playground.

00:07:20.320 Like, hopefully he won't see us and he'll just take that fist away.

00:07:23.200 Hopefully he won't bother us again.

00:07:24.320 Maybe we're super nice, but I'm not going to have lunch with you.

00:07:27.060 I'm not going to sit with you with you at the lunch table.

00:07:28.820 Maybe that'll stop you.

00:07:30.400 We don't we don't have the resolve to do that.

00:07:32.760 And I'm not sure we're really even in the position right now to do that, given everything

00:07:35.600 that's happening in Russia and so on.

00:07:36.880 What do you think?

00:07:37.900 Well, I mean, well, you know, I heard jokes saying if we just raise the the Ukrainian flag

00:07:42.480 over Montana, maybe then they defend our borders.

00:07:44.940 But it's I mean, it is that thing with the bully, too.

00:07:47.860 And China's just they're going to keep pushing and pushing.

00:07:49.640 And with Xi Jinping, he's in a spot where he's he's the most brutal dictator China's ever

00:07:53.680 seen.

00:07:53.980 And that's saying a lot.

00:07:54.920 And that means that no one around him will ever tell him anything resembling the truth.

00:07:59.180 So they're just you know, they're going to push us as far as they can.

00:08:02.900 And the bully never goes away just because you ask him nicely.

00:08:05.320 Or like you said, you don't just change seats or whatever that China's running the show

00:08:08.600 right now.

00:08:09.000 What I mean, the good thing is we're like there's the bully at school, but there's also the

00:08:13.280 big dumb good guy that doesn't know how tough he is until he has to fight.

00:08:16.100 And that's us.

00:08:16.560 I mean, there are people in this military, in the Pentagon, in D.C., you know, in every

00:08:21.420 branch that knows how to fight in Space Force that, you know, they had their big opportunity

00:08:24.760 here and kind of blew that one.

00:08:26.280 But, you know, if and when we need to, they're always saying how China has more ships than

00:08:29.240 we do in the Navy.

00:08:30.180 Fine.

00:08:30.360 They have a bigger Navy.

00:08:31.180 But if it comes down to it, which I hope it doesn't, they'll find out the hard way.

00:08:35.080 It won't be that.

00:08:35.620 That's not going to be a fun war.

00:08:36.780 And I'm not advocating for it.

00:08:37.860 But certainly I'd rather a deterrent than have to fight.

00:08:41.480 And right now we're not deterring anything.

00:08:43.080 Everyone's realized they can just roll us over.

00:08:45.680 Yeah.

00:08:46.080 No, it reminds me of my my college boyfriend who was captain of the lacrosse team at Syracuse

00:08:50.640 and they won three national championships.

00:08:52.760 And he knew a thing or two about competition.

00:08:54.500 And he used to say he was from Yorktown Heights, New York, which is, you know, actually kind

00:09:00.060 of where AOC is from.

00:09:01.820 In any event, he used to say, you don't have to fight.

00:09:05.320 You just have to make the other guy believe you want to fight, that you would fight, that

00:09:08.140 you're ready.

00:09:08.800 That's it.

00:09:09.200 I never saw him throw a punch, but he, but he, he was, he certainly projected.

00:09:13.780 I will.

00:09:14.360 If you make me.

00:09:15.580 If you, if you project strength, people will think you're strong.

00:09:18.220 That's why they call it a dog fight.

00:09:19.460 The dog barks loud because you don't want to fight him.

00:09:21.520 Well, I mean, once we, you know, once the dog gets in a fight, then it's kind of over,

00:09:24.560 but the bark, they always say the bark is worse than it's biting.

00:09:27.540 Sometimes that's enough.

00:09:28.540 And that's, I mean, that's one of our, our, one of our pillars of national defense is, is

00:09:33.180 other than a lion solidarity and forward defense, it's, it's deterrence.

00:09:36.300 And we're good at that.

00:09:37.360 We just, right now we're just, we're showing that we'd, we'd rather be politically correct

00:09:40.720 and, and inclusive with equity than, than, than show strength, than, than, than, than

00:09:46.260 promote by performance instead of feelings.

00:09:50.360 I mean, I heard the other day that feelings are the truth doesn't change no matter how loud

00:09:55.600 you yell at it.

00:09:56.340 So you might as well tell the truth.

00:09:58.240 That's good.

00:09:59.320 You know, the thing about this balloon is people like, ah, it can't, it can't tell anything

00:10:04.920 more than our satellites can tell.

00:10:06.480 And I don't know that that's true.

00:10:08.860 Canadian Debbie, my crack producer has given me a couple of stats via the AP quoting U S

00:10:15.120 retired army general, John Ferrari, visiting fellow now at American Enterprise Institute

00:10:19.440 says, even if the balloon was not armed, it posed a risk.

00:10:21.580 The flight itself could be used to test America's ability to detect incoming threats and to find

00:10:26.720 holes in our air defense warning system.

00:10:28.660 It may have allowed as well, the Chinese to sense electromagnetic emissions that higher

00:10:35.280 altitude satellites cannot detect, such as low power radio frequencies that could help

00:10:39.660 them understand how different U S weapons systems communicate.

00:10:43.420 Washington Post quotes another expert who advises the UN Security Council saying these balloons have a few

00:10:51.220 advantages over the use of satellites or drones.

00:10:53.460 They can obtain better quality images.

00:10:55.420 They could even deploy their own drone systems.

00:10:57.540 They can detect incoming missiles and their slow speed means they're not always picked up by radar.

00:11:02.720 Uh, like this, this needed to be dealt with and seriously.

00:11:07.440 And so far we just seem to be getting like, um, it's kind of like what information could they have

00:11:14.460 gotten?

00:11:14.760 And then we got rid of it and move on nothing to see here.

00:11:17.700 Well, they're trying to talk you out of, talk us out of it because they're, they're, I mean,

00:11:21.380 even with saying so far as well, some flew over when Trump was here, they're trying to justify

00:11:24.320 bad behavior with bad behavior.

00:11:26.000 And that's not the case.

00:11:27.240 The thing is balloon has going for it.

00:11:28.740 Like I said, it's moving slower.

00:11:29.940 So it's harder with radar.

00:11:30.820 It's also in closer in the atmosphere and it can take better pictures.

00:11:35.060 It can, it can get still and, um, it's what it's looking at is our response.

00:11:40.160 How do we react to each other?

00:11:41.440 And most importantly, how do we communicate that with each other?

00:11:44.040 Because the first thing China will do if, and when we go to war with them is knock out

00:11:48.000 our communication.

00:11:48.620 We are talking about space warfare.

00:11:50.000 And if you can imagine, uh, even right now, there are people that can't go anywhere in the

00:11:54.840 country without their, their GPS, without their global positioning system on their phone,

00:11:58.600 their navigation, imagine that gets knocked out.

00:12:00.580 Can you use a map and compass?

00:12:01.680 Do you know which direction the sun sets?

00:12:03.680 Can you use the stars?

00:12:04.620 What if you do, if you can't talk to someone, how do you communicate?

00:12:06.920 That's the first thing they're going to do.

00:12:07.860 They knock out our communications, which when they talk about, um, classified SEI stuff

00:12:12.640 like that, the classified stuff is not the stuff we did on the ground at Bin Laden's house.

00:12:16.200 The classified stuff is how we talk to each other, how certain satellites were talking

00:12:19.460 to different people, how the weapon systems communicate with each other.

00:12:22.180 We use GPS for our missile systems.

00:12:24.180 We use them for everything on the ground, in the air, air to ground, ground to air, air to

00:12:27.500 air.

00:12:28.020 If we lose that, we can't communicate.

00:12:29.700 That's what China is looking for.

00:12:30.640 How's our response?

00:12:31.320 How do we respond?

00:12:31.900 How do we treat each other afterwards?

00:12:33.320 So, I mean, this is a, this is a simple, uh, this could be a reconnaissance balloon under

00:12:37.360 the guise of a weather balloon.

00:12:38.580 It doesn't, they're, they're not going to drop a weapon from this, which they could

00:12:42.120 everything from drones to chemical to biological to, uh, what, whatever version of COVID we're

00:12:46.860 on.

00:12:47.060 Um, that's what it could be.

00:12:48.760 This is just reconnaissance.

00:12:49.680 And they did it in a way that they, they knew that we knew it was coming.

00:12:53.360 It was a question of when did we tell our people, when did we tell our department of

00:12:56.180 defense and our air systems, you know, and we prove that we're good enough with our new

00:13:00.240 F-22 Raptors to shoot down a balloon.

00:13:02.200 How would that be the, the, in the history of air to air combat, your first air to air

00:13:05.620 kill as the highest, uh, uh, um, the, the most advanced fighter in the world, this first

00:13:11.700 kill is a balloon.

00:13:13.760 Well, you, you had a great tweet over the weekend, which was tell the Pentagon, the balloon is

00:13:17.640 unvaxxed.

00:13:18.620 They'll get rid of it.

00:13:21.580 That was, you know, that was just a lander on the couch thinking, well, that's kind of

00:13:24.440 funny.

00:13:24.680 Maybe I'll see how the world thinks of that.

00:13:27.640 The world approved.

00:13:28.640 I speak on behalf of the world here.

00:13:29.800 The Trump administration stuff is interesting too.

00:13:34.720 I mean, it's so absurd to be like, oh, well, Trump did it too.

00:13:37.300 Like, could you just focus?

00:13:38.560 Cause Trump's no longer president and you, you got the top job.

00:13:41.600 And if you could just reassure us that you're on top of it, it would make us feel better.

00:13:44.700 But instead we're getting Trump, Trump, Trump, Trump, Trump.

00:13:47.520 And this is what we've found thus far.

00:13:50.020 So Trump's top advisors during his presidency have all backed him up saying, no, there was

00:13:56.680 no Chinese balloon during our time in office.

00:13:59.540 Just a couple of names.

00:14:00.800 John Bolton, who can't really stand Trump, says, I don't know of any.

00:14:04.940 And he had been his national security advisor.

00:14:06.540 Robert O'Brien had been national security advisor as well.

00:14:09.060 Unequivocally, I've never been briefed on this issue by anybody.

00:14:11.980 Former acting DNI, Rick Grinnell, if a balloon had come up, we would have known.

00:14:15.660 Someone in the intel community would have known.

00:14:18.060 And it would have come up to me to brief the president.

00:14:20.320 Former DNI, John Ratcliffe, comes out and says, it is not true.

00:14:23.940 I can refute this.

00:14:24.780 It didn't happen, but Wall Street Journal reporting that there was one, maybe more than

00:14:32.320 one, but it went undetected during the Trump administration that the previous balloon

00:14:38.880 flights were much shorter in duration, possibly explaining why some went undetected, according

00:14:44.620 to, I think, current senior administration officials.

00:14:47.620 And what they say, Rob, is that the information was discovered after the prior administration

00:14:52.660 left.

00:14:53.880 So what they're asking us to believe is that it happened, that literally nobody in the

00:14:57.960 Trump administration knew, not the top intel people, not the top defense people, not the

00:15:02.260 president, but that Joe Biden came into town and he figured it out and knew that this was

00:15:07.980 a pattern beginning during the Trump administration.

00:15:10.680 And I guess still wasn't concerned when balloon number, what, 70?

00:15:15.840 I don't know.

00:15:16.140 What number are we on now?

00:15:17.240 Joe Biden came over Butte, Montana.

00:15:20.260 Yeah, it's well, you got to figure that a lot of people in the Trump administration, they're

00:15:25.280 going to, for some reason, try to tell the truth.

00:15:28.020 And like you said, John Bolton hates Donald Trump.

00:15:30.420 But he did say, if I if it happened, I would have known about it.

00:15:33.120 But these are they're dealing with people on the other side that are going to lie about

00:15:35.720 pretty much everything.

00:15:36.580 You got to figure if China didn't admit this was their balloon, the Democrats would have

00:15:41.020 said, oh, this is definitely Russian interference.

00:15:42.700 This is a Russian balloon.

00:15:43.900 And Donald Trump guided it there.

00:15:45.400 And that's not Hunter's laptop.

00:15:47.180 And, you know, Adam Schiff should be on the Intel Committee.

00:15:50.660 And because he didn't do anything wrong.

00:15:51.940 And, you know, we don't have Chinese spies sleeping with congressmen that Russia, Russia,

00:15:57.380 Russia, Trump.

00:15:57.920 I mean, you'll see people say, well, why haven't you denounced communist China?

00:16:01.740 Well, you haven't denounced Trump.

00:16:02.800 It's like, that's not the question.

00:16:04.300 Why have you haven't denounced Trump?

00:16:05.660 It's like, what?

00:16:06.920 One is not the other.

00:16:08.060 You just Trump, Trump, Trump.

00:16:09.500 That's and that's all they have.

00:16:10.280 And it's I can't imagine having thinking about someone I hate that much, because I always

00:16:15.840 tell people, if you're feeling bad, that's what someone's thinking about you.

00:16:18.880 You wouldn't feel that way if you realize how little they actually think about you.

00:16:21.560 But these people can't stop Trump.

00:16:22.780 It's all Trump.

00:16:23.600 Trump, Russia, Trump, Russia.

00:16:24.820 Even though that's a hope, they've admitted it and they haven't admitted it, but it's been

00:16:28.200 proven they still won't admit it.

00:16:29.900 OK, but here's here's where it gets interesting.

00:16:31.820 Two things.

00:16:32.340 We're going to talk about talk about General Milley in one second.

00:16:34.440 But the Chinese, here's what they said.

00:16:37.380 They're mad at us.

00:16:39.240 The Chinese foreign ministry declared its strong discontent and protest that we shot

00:16:45.580 down this balloon, saying China had told Washington repeatedly that the balloon was, and quoting

00:16:50.800 here, a civilian aircraft that had inadvertently flown over the United States and that its presence

00:16:58.080 was, quote, totally accidental.

00:17:00.500 They go on to express their their upset that we would react so excessively, saying we have

00:17:09.240 seriously violated international convention and China retains the right to respond further.

00:17:16.840 I mean, you've got to love that the chutzpah on these guys, they'd lie to your face.

00:17:20.340 And, you know, depending on what our interests are, our Pentagon, our White House would pretend

00:17:23.720 that we believe it.

00:17:25.220 We have a tendency to apologize to a lot of people, especially when the left is in power and, you

00:17:29.720 know, oh, you only went 6,000 miles off course.

00:17:31.640 OK, no, in a balloon.

00:17:32.640 I've seen stuff on the Internet where I hope it started as a joke, but people are catching

00:17:37.760 up on it.

00:17:38.320 And they're saying, you know, prayers up to the two people in the balloon, because, you

00:17:42.640 know, one had the binoculars and one was taking notes.

00:17:45.940 And and people are going to believe that nonsense because it's out there.

00:17:48.260 There's nobody.

00:17:49.260 No, but that actually is kind of funny because it makes.

00:17:51.360 Yeah, I guess one guy's looking, one guy's right.

00:17:52.660 And they switch out.

00:17:53.560 Makes sense.

00:17:53.940 But yeah, I mean, they realize that no one's going to fact check China.

00:17:59.540 And when when we do, we're going to lie.

00:18:00.820 It's a weather balloon that, you know, we tried to check out the southern part of the

00:18:04.840 east coast of Russia.

00:18:05.720 But we ended up in South Carolina getting shot down just without without provocation.

00:18:10.480 Right.

00:18:10.980 But this gives us enough cover if we want it to resume our little meeting with Blinken.

00:18:15.640 Right.

00:18:15.860 It's like, oh, well, you know, it was an accident.

00:18:17.500 They said it was an accident.

00:18:18.660 You know, they're upset we shot it down.

00:18:19.780 But we had to act tough and we did.

00:18:21.960 We acted immediately and we were definitely going to tell you all along.

00:18:24.540 That's the other thing they're saying.

00:18:25.460 Joe Biden's saying, you know, we were 100 percent going to be transparent about this all

00:18:29.440 along.

00:18:30.280 Bull bull.

00:18:31.380 We know because of the reporters in Montana and the good people of Montana who are like,

00:18:35.360 what the hell is that thing?

00:18:37.600 They're semi transparent when they get caught.

00:18:39.740 And even when they get caught, you can catch some of these guys with their hand in the cookie

00:18:42.560 jar and they would say, that's not my hand.

00:18:44.820 Yeah.

00:18:45.340 Yeah.

00:18:45.800 Yeah.

00:18:46.020 But I still think they should have the meeting.

00:18:47.960 I still think Blinken should go there.

00:18:49.080 I just wish they would do it with being a little more firm instead of, you know, yes,

00:18:55.360 yes or no, sir, which I think.

00:18:56.620 Should there be any consequences?

00:18:57.900 I don't know.

00:18:58.500 I don't know.

00:18:58.920 Like, I realize we have to deal with China, but like nothing.

00:19:02.660 We're just going to like shrug our shoulders and move on.

00:19:05.660 I mean, it's tough because, you know, China's infiltrated quite a bit here.

00:19:08.500 So you don't know who in D.C. is on the take.

00:19:10.480 I mean, that's the reason a lot of people make a lot of decisions, because people are getting

00:19:13.120 paid on the back end.

00:19:14.080 That's why a lot of people on Capitol Hill in a city that doesn't produce anything are very,

00:19:17.660 very rich.

00:19:18.160 A lot of it's Chinese money.

00:19:20.500 There's one congressman.

00:19:21.760 It's a Democrat.

00:19:22.920 I'm trying to find his name.

00:19:24.000 But he's out there criticizing this whole thing, saying, oh, my God, calm down, Republicans.

00:19:28.200 You know, don't don't get your panties in a bunch.

00:19:30.500 And it turns out his he had some top staffer.

00:19:35.280 I was was it Chris Murphy?

00:19:36.940 No, it wasn't Chris Murphy.

00:19:38.300 No, it's Don Byers, Democrat from Virginia, who had a staffer fired last year after allegedly

00:19:43.620 being caught spying for communist China.

00:19:45.680 So Don Byers wants us to calm down.

00:19:48.180 He says, great news for my Republican colleagues.

00:19:50.520 They can stop panicking about a balloon now after it's been shot down.

00:19:53.760 Don, I think you need to clean up your own house before you start.

00:19:56.140 That's one of the things.

00:19:58.480 Clean your own house before you start telling me how to handle mine.

00:20:00.880 I mean, look at like Senator Dianne Feinstein had a Chinese spy driving for her for two decades.

00:20:04.420 That's I mean, that's pretty significant.

00:20:06.060 I mean, I'm sure.

00:20:06.480 You mentioned Swalwell.

00:20:07.360 Did he did he comment?

00:20:08.540 The guy sleeping with a Chinese spy?

00:20:10.380 Like, did he weigh in?

00:20:11.800 Yeah, you got these dudes that can't get a date in college.

00:20:13.880 They get to Congress.

00:20:14.580 All of a sudden, these Asian girls are all over him.

00:20:16.180 Huh?

00:20:16.440 I'm starting to see I'm starting to see a pattern.

00:20:18.800 Oh, interesting.

00:20:19.700 OK, that actually that's fascinating.

00:20:21.340 And nobody wants to talk about the Swalwell thing, but it's disgusting.

00:20:24.440 He won't mention it either.

00:20:25.500 He's he's he's as pure as the driven snow.

00:20:27.700 So this is just on the timing.

00:20:30.880 Andy McCarthy, always doing great reporting at National Review, points out the Biden White House

00:20:34.200 kept the balloons presence under wraps for fear of derailing that Blinken trip

00:20:37.620 until local media in Billings, Montana, published a picture of it on Thursday afternoon.

00:20:41.820 If the balloon had not been noticed by enough members of the public that it was reported by

00:20:44.920 the press and yeah, that that that the press got got onto it, the American secretary of

00:20:49.860 state would be glad handing in Beijing today, even as China's surveillance aircraft was lolling

00:20:55.060 over our homeland and defense facilities.

00:20:57.800 That's exactly right.

00:20:58.960 That's what was about to happen.

00:21:00.560 But here's where here's where what I want to talk to you about.

00:21:03.960 So there's do you know, Jack Posobiec?

00:21:07.200 He's on he worked at own and I have to tell you, I've had a complicated history of this

00:21:12.580 guy.

00:21:12.760 I didn't think much of him at first.

00:21:14.660 And on Twitter, I we've had sparred a little.

00:21:18.140 I really like this guy now.

00:21:19.180 I have to tell you, I think like he tweets out some really smart and interesting content

00:21:22.960 and I've become a fan, which is a high compliment because I used to think not so well of him.

00:21:28.940 But he tweeted out something suggesting like what's going on with General Milley.

00:21:37.000 I'm trying to find out.

00:21:37.720 He says, did the Chinese spy balloons fly near the U.S. during the Trump administration

00:21:42.360 and Milley deliberately withheld the intel from the White House?

00:21:46.940 Now, that could just be a random musing.

00:21:48.820 I mean, I get that.

00:21:49.600 Right.

00:21:49.800 Because we know Milley.

00:21:51.960 Undermine Trump, Milley thought he was in control when Trump wouldn't accept the election

00:21:55.780 results and so on.

00:21:56.840 So we actually just went back and refreshed our memories on Milley.

00:22:01.960 Do you remember he went to according to Bob Woodward's book, he went around to the senior

00:22:07.760 officers responsible for launching the nukes and and said, OK, the president alone can give

00:22:14.080 that order, but I have to be involved.

00:22:16.960 Looking each in the eye from Woodward's book, Milley asked the officers to affirm that they

00:22:21.000 had understood in what he considered to be an oath and went on.

00:22:26.500 You know, this is, of course, old reporting now, but now just a refresher.

00:22:29.200 He called his Chinese military counterpart on Trump again via Bob Woodward, as well as Bob

00:22:34.760 Costas book Peril.

00:22:36.760 Milley feared Trump might launch a strike on China on October 30th, 2020.

00:22:40.600 He called General Lee and said, I want to assure you the American government is stable.

00:22:44.480 Everything is going to be OK.

00:22:45.740 We are not going to attack or conduct any kinetic operations against you.

00:22:49.220 We've known each other for five years.

00:22:50.480 If we're going to attack, I'm going to call you ahead of time.

00:22:53.720 It won't be a surprise.

00:22:55.300 He reportedly believed Trump was unstable, told his Chinese counterpart, we're 100 percent

00:22:59.600 steady in January of 2021.

00:23:01.780 Everything's fine, but democracy can be sloppy.

00:23:03.800 If you look back at the history, Rob, is it so implausible that maybe it was the intel

00:23:09.240 people like Rick Grinnell and John Bolton and others under Trump who genuinely knew nothing

00:23:14.720 about this?

00:23:16.020 And perhaps there was some knowledge that, you know, the chairman of the Joint Chiefs who

00:23:20.260 didn't think it was wise to share too much with President Trump.

00:23:25.200 Yeah, that's a tough one.

00:23:25.860 As far as General Milley, I've never met the man.

00:23:28.220 I would like to hope someone, you know, the highest ranking officer in the military would

00:23:31.660 have the country's best interest in mind.

00:23:33.500 And if he I mean, he honestly believed at the time when he called his counterpart in

00:23:38.020 China, just assuring him we're not pushing the button.

00:23:40.200 So don't you push the button?

00:23:41.580 You know, that's I wasn't there for that.

00:23:43.460 But that's definitely out of line as far as the chain of command goes.

00:23:45.880 And it's you know, that's not even a faux pas.

00:23:47.840 You can't do it.

00:23:48.840 If you think it's you know, if you think the president's you don't do that, basically.

00:23:54.060 But like I said, I never met the man.

00:23:55.080 I hope he had the best intentions.

00:23:55.960 But as far as someone in intel knowing about something like a balloon, yeah, I wouldn't put it

00:24:00.420 past a lot of these guys with the compartmentalized intelligence, but the way they tell stuff,

00:24:04.180 because if they don't think it's I mean, the president needs to know.

00:24:07.800 But and that's one of the things where he should be able to know everything.

00:24:09.860 That's why he has the power to see everything and declassify whatever he doesn't want to.

00:24:13.160 But what's going on right now in D.C. and with a lot of these people that sometimes just

00:24:17.080 bumping elbows to see what they can do and what they can get after the military, after

00:24:20.520 the intel, which which contractor they can work for.

00:24:24.300 Yeah, everything as far as not stirring the pot for them or don't tell your boss bad news.

00:24:27.900 It wouldn't surprise me if someone knew and didn't tell anybody, but, you know, it all

00:24:31.420 comes back to Joe Biden getting the get the intel and then saying, well, I said, shoot

00:24:34.480 it down.

00:24:34.760 They said, no, that it's that's definitely not so much of a coup, but it's definitely not

00:24:40.400 running the way a smooth military organization should.

00:24:43.320 And when you're dealing with the chairman of the Joint Chiefs, the Pentagon up to the commander

00:24:46.420 in chief, who is the president, that's a military organization.

00:24:48.940 And there's some there's some that's not the right way to do it.

00:24:52.760 Well, it could just be a matter of semantics.

00:24:54.300 Like the reports are, he said, you know, I commanded them to do it as soon as possible.

00:24:59.940 And their response was that has to wait until it's over the Atlantic Ocean.

00:25:03.260 But I would imagine sitting there as a commander in chief, you have the ability to then think

00:25:06.740 and say, why the Atlantic Ocean?

00:25:08.760 Why not over Montana?

00:25:09.760 You couldn't pick a much better state with, you know, huge fields that are open and sparse

00:25:13.720 population to get rid of this thing.

00:25:15.460 It's been over America since last Saturday.

00:25:17.520 Why are we going to wait another half a week to get rid of it?

00:25:20.120 How much information are we going to allow it to obtain before we take it out?

00:25:23.020 Yeah, but that's I mean, it's not the Pentagon's call.

00:25:26.080 It's not the Joint Chiefs call.

00:25:27.660 And it's not the National Security Council's call.

00:25:30.040 It's their job to advise.

00:25:31.580 And the commander in chief makes the call.

00:25:33.640 But it's just the way he did it.

00:25:34.680 And again, I mean, he's been known to say things he didn't quite mean or didn't say in

00:25:38.760 the right way or just made up a word in some cases.

00:25:41.120 But yeah, he made it sound like I gave the order.

00:25:42.760 They said no.

00:25:43.300 So there.

00:25:44.060 And it's almost one of those things like, OK, did Ron Klein tell you not to do it?

00:25:47.400 Did Barack Obama or Susan Rice tell you not to do it?

00:25:49.260 That you can't do it because you're not actually in charge?

00:25:50.680 I mean, we've heard we've heard people say that he's Joe Biden's never made a sound

00:25:55.200 a sound call as far as anything foreign foreign relations his entire career, which is about

00:26:01.540 five decades.

00:26:02.280 And even President Obama said never underestimate the opportunity for Joe Biden to screw things

00:26:07.760 up in not so many words.

00:26:09.200 But, you know, that's that's just that.

00:26:11.000 I mean, is he just lost in the sauce and lost in the swamp?

00:26:13.620 Who knows?

00:26:14.040 But it's definitely not.

00:26:15.800 It doesn't seem like a streamline up and down.

00:26:17.440 People are withholding and then doing stuff that they shouldn't do because they think

00:26:20.040 they're doing the right thing, even though that's not the way to run a biz.

00:26:22.720 But, you know, that place is getting it's if any place needs a bath, it's Washington,

00:26:26.340 D.C.

00:26:26.980 Yeah, I got to say, Millie and Austin don't instill a lot of confidence either.

00:26:30.460 So it's like, OK, was something you said a minute ago caught my ear and on the subject

00:26:36.260 of feeling less than confidence and confident in these guys.

00:26:39.640 NBC News reported a week ago that there's that the guy who's the head of Air Mobility Command,

00:26:46.340 he's an Air Force general, he's the head of Air Mobility Command, which has nearly 50,000

00:26:51.000 service members in it, nearly 500 planes responsible for transport and refueling, said

00:26:56.720 to his people, I hope I'm wrong, but my gut tells me we'll fight in 2025 with China, predicting

00:27:04.580 that Taiwan and the United States are going to have presidential elections in 2024 and

00:27:08.680 thus the U.S. will be distracted and Xi Jinping will have an opportunity to move on Taiwan, signing

00:27:15.360 the signed memo is addressed to all air wing commanders, among others, and orders them to

00:27:20.800 report all major efforts to prepare for the China fight back to base by February 28th and

00:27:27.440 says in particular during the month of February.

00:27:30.180 Right now, he directed all personnel to, quote, fire a clip into a seven meter target with the

00:27:35.400 full understanding that unrepentant lethality matters most. Aim for the head. What's going on

00:27:41.360 here, Rob?

00:27:42.260 Well, that's a general who's telling it like it is. And he's right. As a nation, we should be

00:27:47.220 preparing for that kind of a war with China. It doesn't mean it's coming, but we've been doing

00:27:50.840 that for a long time. We do get distracted with the bells and whistles of the woke ideology,

00:27:55.020 everything down to making sure every ship should be electric, even though the cleanest form of

00:27:59.540 energy is nuclear, which the ships are. But that's a different conversation. And he's a

00:28:03.560 four star general in the Air Force who's basically, you know, he's one of the top dogs. And I'm

00:28:08.120 surprised he still has a job for sending that memo out. I'm sure he's on his way out because

00:28:11.660 they don't like to hear that. They don't want to hear that the military's job is to go defend

00:28:15.300 things and maybe fight a big, you know, fight China and Russia at the same time, which brings

00:28:19.020 Iran into it. That's going to potentially a world war. And, you know, Taiwan's a real problem.

00:28:24.980 It's not because of the landmass of Taiwan. It's because of all the chips that are being

00:28:30.460 built through the microchips and all that stuff. They want to take it for that. But you got to

00:28:33.900 realize that is much different in China than it is in Ukraine, because you don't have European

00:28:38.860 countries there that can kind of put your left foot in your left foot out. And we're sending

00:28:42.660 these vehicles there, but not really. And we're kind of doing this. We might be native. This is an

00:28:46.080 amphibious assault. And that's going to be if it comes, that's going to be from China onto the

00:28:50.880 island. And you can't just back off of that. That's a major thing, which will involve the

00:28:54.840 United States Navy, the Japanese Navy, and then Australia as well. So China realized that. But

00:29:00.160 see, China also realizes that they're like the one kid policy, the one child policy is going to

00:29:06.560 catch up with them because pretty soon their infrastructure won't be able to support the

00:29:10.200 elderly. So they're kind of aware of that, even though Xi Jinping is not getting the truth about

00:29:14.700 everything. There are people smart enough to realize that China might not be able to

00:29:18.520 handle war. So it's, I mean, it's not fun to talk about. And thank God all the crazy people

00:29:23.960 have nuclear weapons, which, you know, would be a complete disaster for the entire planet life as

00:29:28.120 we know it. But yeah, the general did say that prepare for war. And I hope there are more people

00:29:32.560 like him down to the one star than the 06 level and then to the senior enlisted and all the junior

00:29:37.040 officers who are eventually going to come up and have to lead this because that wouldn't, it wouldn't

00:29:40.660 be fast to start. It wouldn't be fast to defend and it will take a long, long time. So that's a very

00:29:46.540 scary prospect. And I hope it's not just thrown around with people not really thinking it through.

00:29:51.400 Yeah. Oh my God. That's the last thing we want to get into, but we don't need that.

00:29:54.720 We'll see. We'll see. Lloyd Alston, secretary of defense said recently,

00:29:58.780 earlier this month, he was asked, is the Chinese invasion of Taiwan imminent? And he said, well,

00:30:04.200 we are seeing some very provocative behavior on the part of China's forces and their attempt to

00:30:09.340 establish a new normal. But does that mean an invasion is imminent? I seriously doubt that.

00:30:14.940 So, I mean, they also said that the Afghanistan army was not going to collapse within 11 days. So

00:30:20.380 take it with a grain of salt.

00:30:21.440 Well, and China's been, they've been making man-made islands off the coast of China now

00:30:25.520 that they said, oh, we're just doing it for good. We're not going to militarize them. And all they're

00:30:28.540 doing is making, they're making stationary aircraft carriers that are militarized now. I mean,

00:30:33.020 they're, they're, they are playing chess. They're playing the long game, which is not just Pacific,

00:30:37.280 but they're moving in. They want to move into the Atlantic. They're taking stuff on both sides of the

00:30:40.500 Panama Canal. Like China's not messing around. And, uh, like if, as long as we have a deterrent and

00:30:45.600 stop giving them everything and letting them own us, we, we could be okay. And we are, you know,

00:30:49.980 we are the, uh, the unfortunate superpower. We're lucky enough to have, uh, oceans on both sides,

00:30:55.020 but, uh, you know, I always, one of my favorite sayings is it's a, it's a large planet, but it's a

00:30:59.520 small world. And, and a lot of it's turning red like China.

00:31:03.160 Hmm. Gosh, I know those oceans, thank God for them, but you know what? You can fly little balloons over

00:31:08.240 those oceans and you can get a whole bunch of information on what's happening on this bland

00:31:11.560 mass. We call it gas prices. We might all be doing that soon. All right. Stand by Rob. We'll

00:31:16.700 squeeze in a quick break. We'll come right back more with Rob O'Neill on the opposite side of this

00:31:19.800 break. Rob, um, we, the January 6th committee is over because the, that Congress is over and those

00:31:30.440 Democrats have no longer, uh, control over the house, but Jamie Raskin who was on the committee and

00:31:36.280 help lead it is still out there saying he believes they did good work. And he believes that what they

00:31:40.400 found will help the department of justice indict president Trump still believes that president

00:31:45.160 Trump will be indicted based on his behavior, uh, in connection with January 6th. This,

00:31:51.040 as we get this tweet, I'm sorry, but it must be discussed publicly from a member of our media,

00:31:58.100 Lawrence O'Donnell over there at MSNBC tweets out this picture of the Capitol. And for our listening

00:32:03.780 audience, it's just a picture of, of the Capitol from inside the Capitol, from the look of it.

00:32:08.120 And he writes, uh, today is my first time inside the Capitol since Jan six, everything looks the

00:32:15.760 same, but it doesn't feel the same. Maybe I'll get used to it again, but now it feels like a visit

00:32:22.160 to an historic battlefield. Out of every window, you see the paths of the attackers. He's just like

00:32:30.120 you, he's basically like, you know, you shot bin Laden. He, he went to January 6th long after he

00:32:34.960 went to the Capitol long after January 6th and took this picture, Rob. So you guys are the same,

00:32:38.660 just like being on a historic battlefield together.

00:32:41.660 Hollowed ground. Yeah. Yeah. I actually, uh, I retweeted that with, uh, I said, so there I was no

00:32:47.380 shit because that's, uh, that's how we always start a story when you're kind of just telling a lie.

00:32:53.420 There I was knee deep in brass and hand grenade pins. It was crazy. Um, yeah, it's like, come on,

00:33:00.260 dude. Like it's, they, they just love January 6th so bad. They want, you know, they say it's the

00:33:05.040 greatest threat to democracy, the greatest attack on democracy since the civil war, which to me,

00:33:08.820 I would think is an insult to the people who died in the towers, Pentagon flight 93, uh, who died at,

00:33:13.640 um, um, Pearl Harbor, you know, for the, uh, they just, they love it. They can't get away from it.

00:33:19.420 And the, the Donald Trump feels so much space in these people's heads that if they had anything

00:33:25.240 on him, he would be in prison. Now they, they, they would have it. They like, uh, we got Adam

00:33:29.080 Schiff saying, we, Oh no, we have it. It's going to be groundbreaking. And when we release it, you

00:33:32.440 don't have anything. If you did, you, you would, everyone's trying to indict him and they, they,

00:33:35.740 they just seem like they have nothing. And January 6th, they're just, they're blowing it way out of

00:33:39.140 proportion. Yes. They can see the, uh, the, the lines of the attackers because that's where the,

00:33:44.240 the red velvet ropes are. They stayed in the ropes and they went into the speak. I mean,

00:33:47.680 yes, that's what somebody billboard. Chris tweeted out, never forget how they almost

00:33:52.080 breached the velvet ropes. Can you just stop? So first of all, even if you were there,

00:33:56.960 this is not an appropriate way to talk about what happened on January 6th, but, but especially

00:34:01.400 Lawrence O'Donnell was nowhere near Capitol. He was not there. So for him to talk about like the

00:34:06.620 trauma, like going back there, the battlefield, Oh, could you stop? You weren't there. It like,

00:34:11.700 this wasn't a bad, a bad, like just have some perspective.

00:34:16.980 It was worse in Minneapolis in 2020 when they were actually burning the city down and mostly

00:34:20.760 peaceful protests. I mean, should they have gone to the Capitol like that? Absolutely not. But it

00:34:24.660 was more of a herd mentality of all look at what we're doing. I mean, yeah, they broke a few gates

00:34:28.840 and stuff. And then, you know, one person was murdered. There was an attacker by a cop with a

00:34:33.280 negative discharge that he should never done anyway. But then they tried to make more deaths than there

00:34:37.540 was like someone accidentally hit themselves with a, with a taser and had a heart attack,

00:34:41.860 which I shouldn't be laughing about, but it wasn't, it wasn't murder and mayhem. They didn't

00:34:45.240 burn the Capitol down. It wasn't like Paul Revere was riding around saying the British are coming.

00:34:49.260 It was a bunch of people that were cold. The battlefields, like an historic battlefield

00:34:54.880 out of every window. You see the hats of the attackers. Okay. So he's got a flair for the dramatic,

00:35:02.440 this one. Let me ask you about Ukraine quickly. Cause I saw you tweeting on Ukraine and I am

00:35:06.360 interested. So we're sending tanks, but we're saying no to F-16s for now. But the New York

00:35:10.880 Times quick to remind us, well, F-16s may be a temporary. No, we may basically get Germany or

00:35:17.860 some European country to do it, to send F-16s, I guess that we've already given them, um, send

00:35:24.020 theirs to Ukraine. So it's not us directly, but what do you make of this? Sending the tanks are okay,

00:35:29.240 but not the F-16s. Well, the tanks are okay because it's going to take a long time for them,

00:35:34.240 for them to build. And for some reason they're saying they need to build them from the bottom

00:35:38.200 up, which is going to take five years maybe to get them there, which is good for the military

00:35:41.960 industrial complex, because that means we get to keep paying, um, the budget for at least five

00:35:46.780 more years for people who are on the take, who are sending this big armor in there. And, you know,

00:35:50.600 it's a huge budget for the Pentagon, but when they lose 39% of it, what's the big deal? They won't get

00:35:54.440 audited. Not a problem. Uh, when we have, I don't know the numbers, but we have maybe a thousand or more

00:35:59.340 M1A1 Abrams tanks in Europe already. I mean, I, or with the tens of billions of dollars we've

00:36:04.540 already laundered to Zelensky, why can't he just buy them with those? But someone's on the take

00:36:08.500 here somewhere and they're putting, you don't need, you don't need those tanks in there to

00:36:11.940 defeat tanks. We could defeat tanks with a couple of Javelin units, which are anti-tank missiles

00:36:16.000 that can destroy any tank in the world to include the Abrams, but that would be less of a footprint and

00:36:20.620 a lower paycheck for someone who's making these decisions and obviously buying stock in the

00:36:24.100 company that makes them. Uh, but yeah, they're, they're going to set, they already have Bradley

00:36:27.000 fighting vehicles in there, which can destroy tanks and those can move the, uh, they got great

00:36:30.440 armor. That's interactive. Some, you know, the people that we do need the, the, uh, the smart

00:36:35.040 guys, the engineers that designed the armor have made the Bradley. So they'll defeat anything Russia

00:36:38.040 has. And, uh, you know, if we wanted to destroy the tanks, we could, but they're tiptoeing towards

00:36:42.840 a world war because technically, obviously NATO is not, I'm sorry, Ukraine is not a NATO country,

00:36:48.000 but now that we're sending tanks in and Germany saying, well, we'll send tanks. And if you sent

00:36:52.380 tanks in and so are the Brits and like, I'm pretty sure the last time Germany sent tanks,

00:36:56.900 over borders, not a lot of good stuff comes out of it, but now that for some reason they want to

00:37:01.800 send the tanks in there and, and, you know, people are getting paid until they're not, and whatever's

00:37:04.920 really happening in Ukraine, um, is good. He's getting, it's still, you know, maintaining

00:37:08.480 whatever coverup it is. So they're going to do it. They're going to send the tanks there. And then

00:37:11.440 if F-16s come in, then, I mean, I don't know when you have to admit that we're actually contributing

00:37:15.000 to this war, but we've got Patriot missiles there. We've got advisors on the ground. We're training

00:37:18.360 people. Poland wants to send people in. It's like, this is, it's getting touchy. Like again,

00:37:22.720 because at some point someone's got nuclear weapons. And again, that's not good. I'm not,

00:37:26.680 I don't advocate any of this, but, uh, boy, both sides of the aisle of Democrats and Republicans,

00:37:30.620 man, they sure do love keeping wars going. Oh, it is disturbing. I mean, like tiptoeing

00:37:35.300 into world war three, like you just said, that's nothing any of us should want. Um, if you think

00:37:40.340 the Ukrainian causes a noble one or not, you got to have serious pause about that. We're not in a war

00:37:46.160 right now. We America are not actively in a war for the first time in a long time. And, uh, you're

00:37:52.280 raising some interesting points about how there's always a group that kind of wants it and rushes

00:37:56.240 toward it. And there are all sorts of financial reasons, another why they do it. And we're, you

00:38:01.420 know, historically too afraid to ask those questions, but we shouldn't be. Well, it's, it's like the whole

00:38:06.160 thing with, uh, there's no, uh, there's no money in the cure, but there sure is money in the treatment.

00:38:10.600 So we can keep pumping these tanks out as long as we need them somewhere.

00:38:14.780 I didn't realize that, uh, that we had so many tanks over in Europe already.

00:38:18.180 Oh yeah. We have a lot there because of the cold war. We still have NATO because of at the end of

00:38:21.680 world war two, we started NATO to stop Russia. And then we just kept it like we don't, we're really

00:38:25.860 good at creating stuff, but I've never seen anything by any government have a problem, make

00:38:30.020 a department say, well, fix that. And then disband the apartment, the department, we just keep it going.

00:38:33.600 The Pentagon's still there. That was a world war two thing for the department of war, but we'll just

00:38:37.160 keep it there and just keep putting, we used to call, uh, as operators, we used to call the

00:38:40.280 Pentagon, the five sided wind tunnel. Cause the place where you can go, there's a lot of wind

00:38:43.960 blowing through and even a one-star general doesn't have a parking spot. Cause there's so

00:38:46.760 many people working there. Oh my goodness. The things you learn. All right. So shifting gears to

00:38:52.580 another military man, just like you, just exactly like you, except not even in a little, um, Harry

00:38:58.080 Prince Harry, he is out there bragging about his exploits, giving a number to the, uh, number of

00:39:03.960 Taliban that he killed in his memoir. I've been dying to ask you about this, uh, as somebody who

00:39:09.320 actually is a decorated, uh, hero. What did you make of that controversy? Cause there were a lot

00:39:14.380 of Brits who had served, you know, honorably who said not okay. You put the, the current troops in

00:39:20.860 danger and, um, and you made yourself look bad. You made the rest of us look bad because nobody goes

00:39:26.560 out there and gives the specific numbers of their kills. What did you make of it? Uh, you know,

00:39:31.740 with, with Prince Harry, um, he was, he was flying or co-piloting or the gunner of an Apache

00:39:37.080 attack helicopter. And whenever they get called to engage, it's because people on the ground are

00:39:41.160 in trouble and they really need help. And Apache has always come through. And, um, I mean, as far

00:39:45.040 as if he's really killing Taliban and Al Qaeda forces, I wish he would have killed more. I'm fine

00:39:49.080 with that. Um, uh, he, he said what he said and he, you know, there were chess pieces here and there

00:39:53.660 with blah, blah, blah. Um, I don't have a problem with him doing that. I was not with him. I never

00:39:57.860 served with him and he was there and you know, I've heard different things, but if I hear people talk

00:40:01.400 about other people that weren't with him, I don't, I take it, you know, the grain of salt. If he killed him,

00:40:04.940 if he has a number, that's great. I never, uh, I don't, I've been in a lot of combat. I don't know

00:40:09.420 how to confirm a kill and I don't know how many I have. I know who the last guy I killed was. It

00:40:13.420 actually wasn't Bin Laden, but it was the same gun. But I mean, if he's, you know, newsflash,

00:40:17.980 we find bad guys and we have people that shoot them. If, if an Apache helicopter kills them,

00:40:21.340 that's great. Um, as far as, as, as putting people in danger, I mean, if it radicalizes someone

00:40:27.820 possibly, but I mean, they hated us before they hated us on nine, 10, they hate us now. Um, it's,

00:40:33.600 it's not really, I don't think it's going to change that much. And, um, you know, he's just

00:40:37.000 out there to sell books that, you know, they, I think some people were calling him bunker Harry

00:40:40.020 cause he was just down in there watching movies with people, but you know, he went thanks for

00:40:43.620 his service and he's flying on a Patsy. That's cool. What do you think the buzz is like in the

00:40:47.680 military community about doing that, about saying they were just like chess pieces on the board to

00:40:50.920 me and I killed at least 20 or whatever his number was. Yeah. I mean, it's, it's, it's,

00:40:54.680 it's a lot more personal close to close, uh, sorry, face to face when you're up close,

00:40:57.940 killing someone in their own bedroom, it is more personable. And you do think about the humanity,

00:41:01.420 especially when there's families involved. So I wouldn't say chess pieces. I would, I mean,

00:41:04.900 for me, it was like me and this guy got in a fight and I killed him simply because we were born on

00:41:08.880 different parts of the earth. I didn't even know him. He didn't know me, but we both had guns. I

00:41:12.440 mean, I mean, I would, he picked up a gun cause I was in his room and I was in his room cause

00:41:15.780 someone made a decision for us to go there. Um, you know, it gets personal and there's definitely

00:41:19.460 humanity involved in, and, uh, chess pieces. I don't think is fair because in my experience in a

00:41:24.780 couple of different theaters, most people, the vast majority in the nineties are just trying to raise

00:41:30.080 their families and get on with their lives, like the rest of us. And they have to deal with

00:41:32.780 us and with Al Qaeda, not sure who's the bad guy because we're the occupiers and these are the,

00:41:37.180 the extremists. Um, so it's, it's, it's with everyone who's killed, regardless of your ideology,

00:41:42.040 someone believed you were the good guy and they all have fathers and they all have mothers and

00:41:45.780 someone misses them. So, you know, it's a lot to think about years. That's why, you know,

00:41:49.740 that's why I have a tendency to throw around phrases like military industrial complex,

00:41:52.940 because when I was 27, I'll invade Canada. I'm ready to fight, but now I'm older and it's like,

00:41:58.180 what are we really doing? So I try to think it, I try to be more thoughtful with it. And, uh,

00:42:03.740 you know, on Twitter, I'm only 60% serious. Yeah, no, same. I mean, that's, that's what

00:42:08.340 Twitter's for. No, but I heard similar sentiments from Dakota Meyer about, you know, his historic

00:42:13.040 fight. Just like, what are we doing here? He's about to kill me. I'm about to kill him. And for

00:42:17.380 what? And because other people made decisions, lands away. And it is complex. I guess I get it. I'm

00:42:22.860 actually getting the controversy. I, I think I was the one who thought the number was more

00:42:26.520 controversial and the chess pieces wasn't, but a lot of the military guys responded to the chess

00:42:30.640 pieces thing that he said. And now, you know, I see what you're saying. You're kind of persuading

00:42:35.000 me over the other way. It was some of those training scars too. I always, I always get a

00:42:38.820 kick out of confirmed kills. We used to have a thing on our wrist before the war started that we'd wear

00:42:43.240 keeping count of rooms and houses and numbers and stuff like that. And how many, uh, unknowns were

00:42:48.180 left and how many, how many you killed. And I stopped wearing it because when I got in combat,

00:42:52.260 I'm like, I didn't need to come out of a room and ask, did I just kill a guy just now? Let me,

00:42:56.920 oh yeah, I got, that's one for me. As far as the numbers. I don't know. I mean, I, I, like I said,

00:43:01.880 I remember my first, I remember one in the middle and I remember my last.

00:43:05.120 All right. Shifting gears to last night's Grammys. Did you watch them?

00:43:08.740 Uh, I caught the highlights.

00:43:10.500 I didn't watch them. I have no interest in that. I got to say, I'm like, I don't have any interest in

00:43:14.660 these people. I don't have any interest in like the fat. I really don't like, I'm just whatever,

00:43:18.900 but I will say that Sam Smith's performance is making a lot of headlines today because apparently

00:43:24.400 he went out there and did this whole devil. Look, here's a clip. This devil themed performance

00:43:29.120 celebrating Satan. Remember? Church lady. Exactly. Church lady. BDSM themes. Uh, halfway through the

00:43:38.800 song, he added a horned hat to his look. And then of course, as if on cue, the whole thing ends and it,

00:43:44.460 it has the banner sponsored by Pfizer. It's an amazing troll really of the right wing and the

00:43:51.660 right wing is upset. I think that Sam Smith is trolling the right. I really do. Because the

00:43:58.060 thing is, we're saying these are all demons. This is a demonic cause and they're all into this BDSM

00:44:01.900 and the devil. And, and say, I mean, Sam Smith loves it. He was, he kind of went out of the

00:44:05.760 limelight for a while. And I think he, I mean, based on the nipple tassels in his latest video,

00:44:09.680 I think he likes attention and going forward yet. And that's a big stage that is brought to you by

00:44:14.300 Pfizer. That's good. I mean, you see that on there, there's a certain cable news network that

00:44:17.740 everything is sponsored by Pfizer because they made a lot of money during a lockdown recently.

00:44:21.340 I'm not sure if you remember, but it's a, I mean, it, a lot of it is thumbing the nose at a lot of

00:44:25.320 people and whatever. I mean, we've had heavy metal bands that I love that have had, um, you know,

00:44:29.240 they have a pentagram, they, uh, shout at the devil, all this stuff. And it's, it's been around there.

00:44:33.640 I mean, if, if you believe in your time's up, you're going to wish you didn't do it. I'm,

00:44:37.260 I'm happy with where I am, but I think I've made peace. So if you're going to get disturbed by

00:44:41.000 this video, I'm more disturbed by this video that we're showing here that you just referenced,

00:44:44.480 not, not the devil stuff, but the nipple. First of all, if you were a man, you do not need nipple

00:44:48.880 covers. What are you doing with the nipple covers? Nothing coming out of that nipple that you need

00:44:52.040 to cover whatsoever. Okay. I've seen my video and it's not my thing, but I really have an appreciation

00:44:57.840 for the ass choreography. Those guys had it going on. I don't, I don't know. I feel like they had the

00:45:03.700 little, the things that resembled someone peeing on them, which again, Hey, Oh yeah,

00:45:07.160 that's happening here. I don't, this is worse to me than the Satan video. I don't, I don't really

00:45:11.660 think, I don't really think it's about devil worship. It's like, whatever. I mean, he, I'm

00:45:15.660 sure it's a middle finger to Christians. They basically said as much that they don't feel

00:45:20.080 accepted. His partner on the things that I, we don't feel accepted by, you know, Christianity

00:45:25.040 or whatever. There's just a trans person. I don't, this, I have to be honest. It doesn't

00:45:29.460 bother me. That other video bothers me a lot more. Although I do own a media company called

00:45:33.620 devil may care. Uh, what did you think of Dr. Jill's dress? Cause I know you love it

00:45:38.700 when they call her Dr. Jill. Oh, she got a standing ovation. I was not a big fan of the

00:45:42.680 dress. She got a standing ovation even without them calling her doctor. And I, so see Jill,

00:45:48.540 you can do it. You can do, you don't need the honorarium everywhere you go. That's number

00:45:52.120 one. And number two, I love Melania. I'm sure Melania Trump was given this same opportunity,

00:45:57.800 Rob, but just could, was too busy to present song of the year.

00:46:00.440 First lady stuff going on. And she's not a doctor. I love, I read the New York times

00:46:04.000 today when they were saying that Dr. Jill's dress was gleaming like, uh, like, uh, Lizzo's

00:46:08.920 dress or something like that. The smile or whatever Lizzo is great. I, I screwed that up,

00:46:13.720 but it cracked me up that they're comparing them on. They just, they throw the doctor in there

00:46:16.720 all the time. It's like when I walk past, um, the post office and it says heroes work here.

00:46:21.380 It's like, you're kind of throwing that road around loosely, but whatever, get some.

00:46:24.280 That's an amazing image. Rob O'Neill. I was walking past the post office with my wife and

00:46:33.760 it said heroes work here. And I said, did, did Buzz Aldrin get a second job? What's, what's going on?

00:46:39.320 They were saying that about the grocery store workers during COVID too. Heroes were like,

00:46:43.020 I mean, like we appreciate it. Don't get me wrong. I love that guy in the liquor store,

00:46:47.560 but heroes seem strong. Thanks for the discount on this keto bread that I love.

00:46:54.460 Rob O'Neill. So fun to see you. Thank you for being here.

00:46:57.800 Anytime, Megan. Thanks. Great to see you. That right there is an actual American hero. Uh,

00:47:03.260 and remember folks, you can find the Megan Kelly show live on Sirius XM Triumph channel 111 every

00:47:07.280 weekday at noonies full video show and clips at youtube.com slash Megan Kelly and follow us as an

00:47:13.000 audio podcast too for free Spotify, Apple, Pandora stitcher, wherever you like it's free. And you

00:47:18.840 can check out the archives. We hear nothing but praise and adulation in the corporate media

00:47:27.500 surrounding the transgender experience these days. But what about the people who have transitioned

00:47:32.700 and realized that it was a massive mistake for them? Their voices are usually suppressed and

00:47:39.120 marginalized. A new daily caller documentary called damaged the trans of America's kids

00:47:45.800 gives these D transitioners a platform to tell their side of the story with a hefty warning in the

00:47:52.100 process. Co-producer of damaged and Newsmax contributor Chrissy Clark, uh, is here with us along with Chloe

00:47:58.600 Cole, a D transitioner who is featured in the documentary. Welcome to the show, Chrissy and Chloe. Great to have

00:48:05.020 you both. Thanks for having us, Megan. I appreciate it. All right. So let me start with you,

00:48:08.880 Chrissy, as, as the person who helped make this and put this together. Why did you think this was

00:48:13.840 necessary and why'd you call it damaged? Well, first off corporate media refuses to touch this

00:48:19.060 subject. I know we had, uh, ABC or NBC touch it briefly and they got a lot of pushback for it.

00:48:24.720 But the problem is, is that this is not just one part of the issue. Uh, it's not just kids that undergo,

00:48:31.480 uh, you know, the transition like Chloe did and then regret it in one way. There are so many different

00:48:37.840 stories and so many different kids that are undergoing this in so many different ways that

00:48:42.240 we wanted to be able to tell the story of multiple people. This, uh, takes you through, uh, Walt Heyer,

00:48:47.240 who is, uh, I believe he's in his eighties. Now he transitioned what he was in, in the 1980s when he

00:48:53.020 was in his forties. And then we're telling the story of Chloe, who's young, she's 18 years old.

00:48:57.520 And she underwent this all before she was 18. So we wanted to be able to tell all the different

00:49:01.860 stories from all different perspectives. The ones that you won't hear from corporate media.

00:49:06.440 Did you, was it hard to find detransitioners like Chloe to speak to you? Because we know that they

00:49:13.060 get bullied viciously when they say that they're going to detransition. It's kind of crazy. The

00:49:18.120 amount of pressure they get not to detransition. So it wasn't hard to find people to speak about it

00:49:21.840 on cam. Right. Chloe is our godsend. Seriously. She was always willing to speak up. Um, and she,

00:49:28.420 I think has really ignited other people to speak up as well. I wouldn't necessarily say it was hard.

00:49:32.560 I think it was hard to find people, uh, that wanted to go on with their real names. That's

00:49:36.420 usually the hardest part about all of this, but there are a lot of people that have this story

00:49:41.020 and they do want to speak up. So no, it wasn't hard because there are so many people that this

00:49:45.260 has happened to, and they are pining to get the story up because they're willing to speak. And it's

00:49:50.000 incredible. And I, I really do applaud Chloe. Uh, she has been one of the most vocal people about

00:49:56.060 this. And because of that, she's prompted other people to come forward. So shout out to the

00:50:00.540 bravery of an 18 year old doing more than most mainstream media outlets are about this.

00:50:05.460 That's crazy. Chloe, you're only 18 years old right now. Yeah. Oh my goodness. You were just

00:50:11.160 watching the film. You're so articulate. You're, you have such a nice mature presence about you.

00:50:16.800 I mean, granted you've been through a lot and you're 18 years, but wow, I didn't realize that you

00:50:20.360 were currently 18. That's incredible. So I have to say one of the things that jumped out at me about

00:50:24.520 your story was, um, about a week or two ago, we had on Dr. Leonard Sachs who wrote why gender

00:50:31.080 matters among many other parenting books. He's well worth the read. If you're going to have kids

00:50:34.700 and, um, he maintains that gender does matter and that it's a real thing, even to this day,

00:50:39.680 shocking, controversial. And, um, one of the things he was saying, I, I heard in your testimonial,

00:50:47.520 which was, he said, some young girls see nothing but sexualized images of girls all over the internet

00:50:56.080 and also women complaining about childbirth or menstruation or, you know, sexual harassment and

00:51:02.920 how difficult it is to be a woman. But in particular, the sexualization of women with the,

00:51:07.740 with the big bodies and the plastic surgeries. And that there are young girls out there thinking,

00:51:14.560 that's not me. And I don't want that to become me. And this can be a trigger for some to start

00:51:21.560 thinking about transitioning. And I confess to you, Chloe, in the back of my mind, I was like,

00:51:26.440 really, could that do it? Like, could that, and that's in part your story.

00:51:32.640 Yeah, it was because I had been exposed to these images for so long and also due in part because I

00:51:38.480 also hit puberty at a young age and I was subject to a lot of comments on my body from other people.

00:51:44.560 Including like my peers and even some adults. I was very, I was very conscious of my body and I

00:51:51.400 actually developed a, actually developed body dysmorphia, which when undiagnosed until after

00:51:56.780 I transitioned.

00:51:58.980 Mm-hmm. So you're, I mean, you're just a normal, like American girl. Talk about your family life

00:52:03.260 and how it was and where you are, if you have siblings, where you are in the birth order,

00:52:07.440 all of that. Just get, help us get to know you a little.

00:52:09.200 Yeah, I'm in a pretty nuclear family. I have, both my parents are in the picture. I've got five

00:52:14.840 older, I've got four older siblings. But they're, they're all half siblings and they're all,

00:52:20.140 not all of them were in the picture because some of their parents had, had more custody over them

00:52:24.520 than my parents did. And so they weren't always at home when I was. And all of them are about seven

00:52:31.140 to eight years older than me. So I wasn't particularly close to them.

00:52:33.580 Mm-hmm. So what was your childhood like? Like, was it, was it happy? Was it dysfunctional? And I

00:52:39.380 know, um, there, there's a couple of incidents highlighted in the film, but overall, how would

00:52:43.280 you describe it?

00:52:46.360 Um, with socializing and with school, it was pretty difficult for the most part. Um,

00:52:54.580 I'm actually on the spectrum and because of that, that affected my socialization and my,

00:52:59.160 my performance in school. And it didn't help that I was diagnosed a lot later. Um,

00:53:04.400 there was one grade when I finally, after a few years of being bullied and not really fitting with

00:53:10.000 my peers, I finally managed to fit in and make some friends. But immediately after that, um,

00:53:15.100 right before middle school, I had to, I moved neighborhoods and schools and I was pretty much

00:53:20.100 back at square one. And so I had turned to the internet to make friends.

00:53:24.360 The internet. And that was, that was what led to my exposure to, to the LGBT and transition.

00:53:34.660 So you were age 11 when your parents got you a phone?

00:53:38.360 Yeah.

00:53:39.900 This is very scary. I have an 11 year old right now who is dying for me to get her a phone. She

00:53:44.460 turns 12 in April. You know, a lot of parents out there and you're told everyone has when everyone

00:53:48.620 has on you. You're supposed to, you know, Dr. Sachs was saying too, like, so what? It doesn't matter.

00:53:53.060 So how, when you got the phone, like talk about how you got drawn into those websites. Like how did

00:53:58.600 that go? Um, well, everybody, my age was using apps like kick Instagram, Snapchat, and I started

00:54:07.400 using Instagram and Snapchat, mostly Instagram. Um, and I started seeing a lot of content that was

00:54:14.440 almost completely left wing, um, a lot of feminist content and then eventually, um, some LGBT centered

00:54:22.760 content. And at first it was because I was kind of a nerdy kid, you know, I liked cartoons and video

00:54:28.420 games and stuff. And usually I would be active in, or like, I would like lurk in communities around that

00:54:33.840 kind of thing. And there was kind of like an overlap between the people in those communities and like

00:54:39.280 being like gay or bisexual or identifying as trans. I'm not exactly sure why, but eventually the

00:54:46.360 algorithm started recommending me specifically LGBT content. And it was mostly kids my age or like

00:54:53.100 young, younger adults who almost all female who identified as trans. Oh, this is so interesting.

00:54:59.920 Now, wait, when you say that in those communities, do you mean the gaming community?

00:55:02.420 Yeah. Yes. I just, I literally just went to a seminar on this at our school and they were

00:55:09.460 talking about, and I heard you mentioned this in the documentary too. Um, there's a lot of anime

00:55:14.320 that is pornographic and, um, potentially, you know, brings up trans themes. And so, I mean,

00:55:21.520 a lot of parents are like, Oh, anime, Japanese anime, that's, that's harmless. No, no, you need to be

00:55:27.760 aware. Yeah. I mean, there, there are some films and series that are pretty clean, but even an anime

00:55:36.540 that isn't like specifically like, like all like explicitly pornographic there, there is often

00:55:45.680 like very sexual themes, very sexualized character designs. And once you click on it, then as you

00:55:55.700 point out, the algorithms got you pegged in a certain way. That's, that's really interesting

00:56:00.160 to me is that suddenly without sort of willingly entering this community, they pulled you in.

00:56:05.700 They, the, the internet starts forcing it on you. And, um, before you know it, you're in a dangerous

00:56:11.580 zone because you're young and you're suggestible. And as you point out, a lot of, a lot of young

00:56:15.660 people who think that they're trans, correct me if I'm wrong, Chloe are in fact on the spectrum.

00:56:20.380 Um, yes. I mean, upwards of about 30%. Why do you think that is? And almost, um, well,

00:56:32.420 I've heard from, from other transgender people that, I mean, puberty is pretty rough for just

00:56:38.020 about anybody, but it's especially rough for us because of our, a lot of us have sensory

00:56:42.080 difficulties. We don't adjust very well to change. And, um, a lot of people on the spectrum

00:56:50.280 also social struggle socially. And I would say that's a bit, that's a big part of it, but

00:56:54.440 also autistic people, many of us have a tendency to hyper fix it on things. And that's definitely

00:57:03.220 true. In my case, a lot of what led to my dysphoria was hyper fixation on things like my

00:57:09.020 body, my body images, my body image, and things that I thought were wrong with me as a girl.

00:57:16.040 Like what? And it's not only autism. It's not only autism. Um, a lot of people who have dysphoria

00:57:22.580 have some other sort of comorbidity, um, including ADHD, depression, anxiety, cluster B personality

00:57:31.600 disorders, and the list goes on. And every, every trans person or dysphoric person I know

00:57:38.380 around my age either has some sort of family trauma or like a trauma that's sexual nature,

00:57:43.980 like having been abused or assaulted. And usually at a young age.

00:57:49.000 That Chrissy, you guys point that this out in the documentary, I think four out of the five

00:57:53.160 detransitioners you highlight had a sexual assault in their past. How is, how is that,

00:57:58.840 you know, the connected tissue? Yeah, well, we're one detransitioner put it very aptly for us. Uh,

00:58:06.500 Walt Heyer was telling us, uh, essentially that when like Chloe or, or Walt, unfortunately were touched

00:58:13.880 in X area, they're not interested in actually being transgender. It's just a coping mechanism

00:58:20.300 for not allowing anybody to touch that part. That was, you know, obviously a sexual assault. Uh,

00:58:26.720 they don't want that to happen again. And so this is their way of coping with it. And just like Chloe

00:58:31.700 said, uh, it is perfect. She said it perfectly. What happens is autistic kids or kids on the spectrum

00:58:38.240 get hyper fixated on something and they get hyper fixating on fixing this problem. And there are no

00:58:43.420 longer any psychologists out there that are willing to push back and say, no, no, this is not what you

00:58:48.360 are. Instead. It is a firm, a firm, a firm. We know for a fact that cognitive behavioral therapy

00:58:53.300 is some of the best therapy you can have. If you've ever been to a therapist, you know,

00:58:58.100 that they push back against your ideology. That is when you grow in therapy and that is no longer

00:59:02.980 happening. So these children fixate on it. And then on top of it, all the parents and the

00:59:07.900 psychologists are saying a firm, a firm, a firm, and it doesn't actually get to the root problem

00:59:12.140 of the sexual assault. It just affirms a delusion. Hmm. So Chloe, you had a couple of things going

00:59:18.240 against you. You had, uh, you're the, you're on the spectrum, which has led to some of these things

00:59:23.920 that you were talking about. They might make this more appealing to you. And then there was a sexual

00:59:28.940 assault, a groping that happened of you at what age? I was 13. Um, I was actually, I was a few,

00:59:37.760 I was about a year into socially transitioning and a few months after I started medically transitioning

00:59:43.140 as well. And by this point in time, I didn't really tell anybody about it. I didn't realize

00:59:49.220 just how much it affected me until a few years, a few years later, actually. Um, I mean, for a while,

00:59:55.080 I didn't recognize it as a sexual assault because I just thought of it as, well, I'm a boy, so I'm

01:00:01.320 supposed to man up and not cry about it. And I thought of it as, well, maybe this is just boys

01:00:08.160 being boys. And I knew that even if it, even if it was something that I wanted to like report

01:00:14.520 because it happened within a classroom, I could have reported it to the school office,

01:00:20.160 but I knew that it was very likely that they would have just let the kid off with a slap on the wrist

01:00:25.720 and he could have, he could have come back to school like within a week and potentially do

01:00:32.980 something worse to me if I spoke up. And this was, um, what, what happened during the exchange?

01:00:41.740 He, um,

01:00:43.500 he had been bullying and harassing me for pretty much the whole school year. And eventually one day he

01:00:53.680 just went too far. He went up to me in a classroom and he squeezed one of my breasts. He looked me in

01:01:02.560 the eyes as he did it. And nobody around me even seemed to notice or care.

01:01:09.160 Hmm. I'm so sorry that happened. That is just, that's not boys being boys. I have two boys. They

01:01:15.460 would never in a million years behave like that. There's something wrong with that kid. Um, and,

01:01:19.460 and we do, we, we need to do a better job. It's just in general of teaching kids those boundaries.

01:01:23.440 Boys will be boys does not encompass behavior like that. That's not normal. Um, that's abusive.

01:01:28.360 So I'm sorry you had to deal with it, but that was one of the things that just like,

01:01:32.500 like we were just saying, you were like, I, I shouldn't even have these breasts. The breasts

01:01:37.020 will be gone. He won't be able to do that to me. And I know that, so you said that at 13,

01:01:42.060 was that the first time? Cause you got the phone at 11. So when was the first, cause I know you

01:01:45.900 started to bind your breasts and do things like that. When was the first time you started doing

01:01:49.360 sort of transition like behavior? Um, well, about when I, when I was about 12, that was when I

01:01:57.180 started, that's when I started changing my name and, uh, like cutting my hair shorter and buying

01:02:01.860 boys clothes. And then at 13, sorry, excuse me. Um, at 13 was what I started to, when I was starting

01:02:10.880 to go in the medical route, uh, starting with puberty blockers and testosterone.

01:02:14.360 Oh, so young at 13. My God. I mean that. So the thing is, we've heard this from Abigail Schreier,

01:02:21.940 Chrissy, we've heard this from Deborah. So there are a lot of girls like Chloe who get the phone or

01:02:27.440 get the iPad and then spend hours in this other world where all they get is a firm, a firm, a firm.

01:02:34.940 That was you. So actually, before I go to Chrissy, Chloe, did your parents not realize you were doing

01:02:41.260 it? Like now in today's day and age, and this wasn't so long ago, but you know, we'd spy on our

01:02:46.580 kids. We try to make sure that good parents for the most part, try to make sure they're not doing

01:02:50.900 stuff like that. You don't let your kid in the bedroom for three hours on their iPad when they're

01:02:54.760 13 years old. So like what was going on there? I mean, they wouldn't really monitor what I was

01:02:59.680 doing. They didn't really know what content I was accessing. I mean, they would take my phone at night,

01:03:04.800 but. Like if they walked into the room while you were on one of these websites, what would you do?

01:03:14.620 Um, I mean, they wouldn't even like look at my phone.

01:03:19.680 Hmm. So are you an advocate for nosy parents?

01:03:24.900 Absolutely. Yeah. I'm not just looking to make myself feel better, but all my fellow moms and

01:03:29.800 dads out there who, you know, it's for it's for your children's safety. It really is. It's like,

01:03:34.160 it's like letting them play with a gun and you don't know whether it's loaded or if it's real,

01:03:38.980 like, Oh, I'll just chance it. You know, I'll just, I don't want to invade their privacy. No,

01:03:43.060 no, you must for their safety. So Chrissy, that's the thing is like long hours on the internet and

01:03:48.320 the influence of people who don't have your child's best interest on the internet, having

01:03:52.300 access to them for hours in their bedroom at night. Right. And I want, I gotta say there's a third

01:03:57.440 component to it. And that is that public schools are rife. Uh, they've created a world in a space

01:04:02.680 that makes this kind of ideology perfect to permeate throughout the school districts.

01:04:07.760 Okay. So you not only have this going on at home where your kid is allowed to have access to the

01:04:12.620 phone, the internet, um, you know, they start off with something innocent like anime or Disney,

01:04:17.060 and then they're subjected to a bunch of wokeness and insanity that tells them that they're

01:04:20.420 transgender. But then you go into the school district and the school districts are pushing

01:04:23.880 this as well. They're not pushing back and they're there to cut the parent out of the

01:04:28.300 conversation. That's become their role. It's become the role of any sort of psychologist or

01:04:33.040 any sort of a counselor at school. They cut the parent out and then the parent can't do

01:04:38.240 anything because if they do play a role, if they do take away a phone, the parents are told that

01:04:42.640 the child will then commit suicide. We, I know Dr. Debra so has talked about this. Abigail Shrier

01:04:46.780 has talked about it. It is a lie that parents are told time and time again, that you would rather

01:04:51.460 have an alive son than a dead daughter. Yeah. Dr. Sachs was saying on our program two weeks ago,

01:04:56.580 that 88% of children who express some sort of gender dysphoria, if left alone will revert back

01:05:01.880 to their biological sex, just leave them alone. And 88% will, will wind up reverting back to their

01:05:07.860 biological sex. And most of these turn out to be gay boys and sometimes gay girls like lesbian.

01:05:12.280 Right. But we don't have numbers on this right now because we don't have any medical establishment or

01:05:16.620 any doctor that's willing to actually come out and say, no, this is really happening. We have

01:05:21.540 Reddit threads with 46,000 D transitioners. But if you ask a gender activist or a gender doctor,

01:05:27.460 they'll say 99% of people who undergo this treatment, they don't regret it. Yet we have

01:05:33.180 thousands of people and Chloe herself can tell you there are so many untold stories. And Chloe,

01:05:38.660 I loved the part of your story specifically where, or I didn't love it, but you know what I mean? I loved

01:05:44.500 hearing about it because no one else would touch this. She didn't have anybody that would help her when

01:05:49.420 there were issues with her gender reassignment process. When she had issues and difficulties,

01:05:54.880 not a single doctor was there. So how could we count it when the doctors are happy to do the work

01:05:59.860 for the money and the surgery? And then they're gone as soon as you really need them.

01:06:04.560 Well, wait, we'll get to that one second too. But, but before we get to the detransitioning

01:06:07.900 on the transitioning, so you express to your parents, I think I'm a boy and I'm sure your parents were

01:06:13.340 taken aback, but how, how did it come about that you got on hormones at such a young age?

01:06:19.420 And what was the messaging? Cause I know your dad at least said,

01:06:22.680 what percentage of the kids regret this? And he was misled.

01:06:29.720 Yeah. Um, I mean, at first they were okay with me, like cutting my hair and wearing different

01:06:35.540 clothes and even changing my name. But when I expressed that I wanted to medically transition,

01:06:41.520 they, I mean, obviously they, they were against this. They wanted me to wait until I was 18 and I

01:06:47.520 was responsible for myself. Um, so they decided that after I came out to them that they would

01:06:58.160 take them to a therapist to get these feelings sorted out and maybe figure out where they come

01:07:02.520 from. And that never happened. Um, they were told that in the film, you say you had one,

01:07:11.600 I think it's forgive me. I think it was you who said you had one therapist who was no good. And

01:07:16.460 then you found another who was just a firm, a firm, a firm, a firm. Yeah. I mean, every single

01:07:22.040 person, pretty much every doctor, every physician and every, every psychologist I've had was affirming

01:07:28.540 and they always referred to me by the preferred name. They always said like, Oh, I'll refer to you as

01:07:33.240 he, as a boy. And they told my parents, like, I mean, less than 1% of people regret transitioning

01:07:43.180 and they never presented any other options. And they even told them that, I mean, were I not to

01:07:50.780 go down this route, then I would be at risk of suicide, which I wasn't suicidal by that point.

01:07:56.380 So they're saying Chloe's going to kill herself unless you let her transition to being a boy.

01:08:00.160 And 99% of people who go through the transition have no regrets, which both of which are lies

01:08:05.460 upon which you base decisions to actually have surgeries and take dramatic steps to change,

01:08:11.140 quote, change your gender. Yes. My God, you must be angry. Are you angry? I'm angry for you.

01:08:20.620 Absolutely. I don't blame you. I feel like this, you've been so let down by community that you tell

01:08:29.840 me, Chrissy, but they seem very like, Oh, but it's good. And one of the great things about this

01:08:34.540 piece damaged again is the name of the film, uh, produced by the daily caller is that you managed

01:08:39.580 to get Dr. Joshua D safer. Uh, interesting name, executive director of Mount Sinai center for

01:08:47.280 transgender medicine and surgery on camera. He gave you a long interview. And I have to say

01:08:51.280 with all due respect is Mount Sinai is a great institution. This guy doesn't seem like he could

01:08:55.420 care less about people like Chloe. I mean, he just didn't care. He was like, Oh, it's fine. He's

01:08:59.380 talking about it. Like it's given them an aspirin. That was my impression and listening to him. Um,

01:09:03.940 and he's here's here. He is talking about if, if you're over 18, it's happening. Here's a, it's

01:09:08.420 sought, I think, uh, eight.

01:09:11.600 If you're over 18, we, unless we find a reason why we want to spend more time thinking about it with

01:09:21.820 you, we take you at your word. If you come and you tell us that you are transgender and there's

01:09:29.040 nothing else going on. Most people who come and tell us that they understand gender identity and

01:09:35.720 they are transgender and they are looking for treatment. That is really true. And we go with

01:09:39.820 that. My God, Chrissy, 18, you can't even drink yet, but all you have to do is walk in and say,

01:09:46.600 I'm trans and they'll give you a surgery. Oh, actually you don't have to be 18. He let me

01:09:50.900 know that in the documentary as well. I said, is there any case in which, uh, you could come in

01:09:56.460 here and say, I'm underage and I, I want to get my boobs cut off. Could I do that? Absolutely. He said,

01:10:01.800 everything is a case by case basis. And if there was somebody that the example he used was,

01:10:06.000 if I have a young girl who is going to college in September and she turns 18 on September 21st,

01:10:14.520 we would do the surgery before she leaves so that she could be in the care of her parents

01:10:17.980 at the age of 17. So they're performing at underage too. Don't let them lie to you. Uh,

01:10:22.300 I, the craziest part about the safer interview, I will say was how many times I had to turn the

01:10:26.620 camera off so he could tell me how uninformed I was. I brought up Dr. Deborah. So I brought up

01:10:31.180 Dr. Lisa Littman. He refused. He would not talk to me about it. He said that rapid onset gender

01:10:38.860 dysphoria was a lie made up by kooks. Um, so no, these people don't actually care about doing any

01:10:44.720 of the data or the research. They're just interested in making money off of a medical establishment

01:10:50.120 that's selling these kids lives. That was horrifying. And it's reason alone to watch this piece because

01:10:54.680 she says, you know, what about Dr. Littman of Brown university who did an in-depth study on, um,

01:11:00.900 rapid onset gender dysphoria that suggesting that this is a social contagion in particular amongst

01:11:05.740 teenage girls that deserves further pause. Then this doctor safer is giving it before he starts

01:11:12.680 cutting people. And, uh, he, he turns right to the camera and he says, can we turn this off? And

01:11:18.020 then I guess it scolded you. Is that what happened that you didn't, you shouldn't have been bringing

01:11:21.100 up Dr. Littman to him? Yeah, actually it happened twice. He had to, we had to turn the cameras off

01:11:25.740 and he had to give me a lesson on how uneducated I am. I'm just sitting there. I kind of laugh. I

01:11:31.220 can't take too much of this stuff seriously when it comes to somebody trying to lecture me

01:11:34.880 about something where you have a clear political. Yeah. I mean, yeah. And he, he was very concerned

01:11:41.140 that I was trying to do a Matt Walsh as gotcha piece. And I was like, no, sir, I will just let you

01:11:45.680 say this all for yourself. I am not trying to got you, you in any way. We're just trying to get

01:11:50.080 the facts out. We reached out to a ton of other people. We reached out to Jack Turbin, who's

01:11:53.860 notoriously known for his studies that claim that, uh, you know, rapid onset gender dysphoria doesn't

01:11:59.100 exist. The 99% statistic that we talk about 99% of transgender patients. Um, this is an individual

01:12:05.060 who is funded by the very, uh, hormone drugs that process hormones that changed Chloe temporarily.

01:12:11.860 Um, those are funded by this guy, Jack Turbin. We wanted to sit down with him. We wanted to sit

01:12:17.180 down with Dylan Mulvaney, anyone that would talk to us. Uh, these people just didn't want to get

01:12:21.000 back to us, but thank goodness Dr. Safer did because, you know, for all the crazy things he

01:12:25.680 said, at least he had the balls to show up. Yeah, exactly. He still has his balls. It's just

01:12:31.040 changing that for others. Chloe, can she mentioned Dylan Mulvaney? Can we spend a minute on Dylan Mulvaney?

01:12:38.860 Because Dylan has taken the internet and the white house by storm. Dylan is a biological man who is

01:12:47.160 a trans girl now woman. And Dylan has been featured. We, we, we talked about this on the show,

01:12:52.820 uh, as, as like talking about Dylan's girlhood, Dylan's, you know, I mean, it's like there was no

01:12:59.320 girlhood. Dylan was raised as a biological boy and is now saying that Dylan is a girl and went through

01:13:06.500 to get this facialization surgery, which set the internet on fire last week because

01:13:10.480 Dylan looks very feminine now with a facial bones, thanks to massive plastic surgery.

01:13:15.680 Dylan only transitioned, I think about two minutes ago. I mean, truly it's been extremely fast

01:13:22.360 and extremely disturbing on the, from the outside. Like how many surgeries can you fit into one year?

01:13:28.200 Well, how many unethical doctors can you find to change everything there is about you?

01:13:32.560 What do you, what did you make of that watching it over the past year or so?

01:13:40.980 Um, well, first of all, I, I find it uncomfortable that he refers to himself as a girl rather than a

01:13:50.680 woman. Like he's a 25 year old biological male. It's a little bit late to be referring to yourself as

01:13:57.760 a girl. Maybe, maybe it's cause I'm a teenage girl myself, but I just find a lot of discomfort in

01:14:03.720 that. But I saw, I saw the news of the facial feminization surgery last week and

01:14:13.940 I mean, it's clear that this guy is just not in a good place and he's being filled in the same way

01:14:24.260 as I was by my own doctors. And I, I just, he's clearly being enabled by, by, by the doctors.

01:14:34.560 And I mean, it's horrific that anybody feels like they have to do that to themselves, that they have

01:14:40.440 to take a bone saw to the jaw, to, to their skull in the first place.

01:14:47.240 You're right. He's been asked to the white house interviewing president Biden. I mean, again,

01:14:53.760 a spokesperson for Ulta beauty on girlhood. It's insane. Like we can't find enough actual women

01:15:00.140 to speak about actual girlhood. We've now got to go to people who have been claiming to be a girl

01:15:05.160 for, like I say, two minutes. Uh, there's something wrong and disturbing about it. And you raise a good

01:15:11.240 point as an actual girl. Why is a 25 year old biological man trying to say that he's just like

01:15:16.720 you? Like you have your own unique experience. All of this stuff presses buttons that are

01:15:21.760 uncomfortable. And can I just ask you about while we're on this, let me, can I just ask you about

01:15:26.180 this? It's been something that's bothering me. So back when I was at Fox, um, and then later NBC,

01:15:32.620 I was very supportive of trans people. Um, at Fox, I was upset when Keith Ablo said,

01:15:41.060 Chaz Bono should not be dancing and dancing with the stars. You know, Chaz is a biological girl

01:15:46.080 who transitioned to male and was featured on design. And I was like, you know what? There's

01:15:50.000 so much hate. Let's just like, let's try to be supportive. Then I went to NBC and I featured

01:15:56.880 some transgender people and talk about their lives and how they found love and how it was helpful to

01:16:02.120 them. And even on this show, we talked about kids and out of respect for the one mother who

01:16:08.020 entrusted me with the interview of her child. I I've never gone back and like played the soundbite

01:16:11.700 and I won't because I loved their family, but it was a boy who said that he was a girl and she was

01:16:17.900 convinced that it was real. And there is, there is something such a thing as gender dysphoria.

01:16:21.920 And it typically affects very young boys and typically not as much females. And I don't know whether

01:16:28.600 this kid was in fact going through it, but we talked about it in a way that was accepting

01:16:32.020 and loving. And it's not that I'm against talking about things in a way that's accepting and loving,

01:16:36.760 but ever since, like since we've lost our minds on this subject, so that was 17, you know, and here

01:16:42.100 we are, what, almost six years later. I feel very differently about it. And I feel like it's

01:16:49.060 transitioned from being supportive of the very small group of people who actually have gender dysphoria

01:16:53.660 into widespread, massive medical abuse of hurting children, children who are hurting for different

01:17:02.000 reasons in service of a political or ideological agenda. You know what I mean? And I've really

01:17:09.760 wrestled with how did we go from trying to teach kindness and love and acceptance and support of

01:17:16.540 people who legitimately are suffering with something to the widespread abuse of masses of American

01:17:23.140 children? I'd love to get you both to weigh in on that. Chrissy, I'll start with you.

01:17:28.200 Yeah, I was just, I just went on a rant about this the other day. I think that the politicization

01:17:33.520 of this is actually activists failing the constituents they're supposed to be supporting. They're supposed

01:17:38.140 to be supporting legitimately trans people, yet they go out and support people like the man,

01:17:43.380 the biological man with a penis at the YMCA who is exposing himself. I believe it was Dr.

01:17:49.600 Deborah So that so aptly put it that if you have real gender dysphoria, you are not leaving your

01:17:54.520 part hanging out. You are covering it up and you are partaking in the actual gender dysphoria that you

01:17:59.900 feel. And that would be you don't want people to know that you are a biological man. The problem is,

01:18:05.480 is that activists then go and stick up for people who use their pedophilic mindset in the name of

01:18:11.860 LGBTQ alphabets. And that's the problem that we have. The activist communities, if they stood up for real

01:18:17.860 transgender people, then this love and acceptance would be painted time to people would be totally

01:18:22.440 fine with it. But the problem is, is that when people hijack the transgender movement, that's

01:18:27.440 how we get where we are today. And that's exactly what's happening. There's more people hijacking it

01:18:30.900 than real people going through it. That trans woman later came out and claimed that they had had

01:18:35.840 transition surgery. We don't know whether it's true, because we know as of as of December 2021,

01:18:40.940 it hadn't happened. But in any event, the point remains the same is it's a biological man in the

01:18:45.380 in the women's room. And the woman could tell the 17 year old girl, whatever's been done,

01:18:50.120 she could tell that it was a biological man. What did you what do you think of it, Chloe? It's like,

01:18:54.460 I don't I don't know any longer, you know, how to draw how to be kind and supportive of people who

01:18:59.960 legitimately are suffering with this disorder, this this, you know, misguided belief that they've

01:19:05.640 been born into the wrong body. And those who are just being shoved like you are into this group that

01:19:12.000 don't belong there. And, you know, trying to push back against that. Yeah, I think motivations in

01:19:20.380 pushing this are, like Christy said, doing part to ideology and politics. But I think a big part

01:19:26.120 of it is also money, especially here in the US. I mean, I'm sure you guys know, like, Europe is

01:19:33.600 starting to slow down with these procedures, especially in children. But the US is just not

01:19:38.680 stopping anytime soon. And I think that's due in part because the US in a lot of ways is motivated

01:19:43.620 more by money. And I think it's also just harder to stop here because we're such a big country.

01:19:54.060 And just because the way our country is run. That's right. Well, because of federalism, you

01:19:58.460 know, we have states that are going to be more blue and states that are gonna be more red. And the

01:20:02.220 red states are pumping the brakes on this and the blue states are full steam ahead and it's become

01:20:05.480 like a principle for them. A principle. They've forgotten what core principles ought to be in

01:20:10.800 medicine. Do no harm. That's number one. Let me pause for one minute. There's a lot more to get

01:20:15.580 into. And we'll talk about the detransitioning when we come back with Chloe and also Chrissy of

01:20:20.320 The Daily Caller. What an interesting discussion. So glad you guys are both here.

01:20:26.600 So Chrissy, in the documentary, you feature, as I mentioned, four other detransitioners.

01:20:31.360 And Kat Cadenson, who was, she's a woman who transitioned to male, then back to female,

01:20:37.700 talked about how her parents did not affirm her. They did not affirm. And how at the time that was

01:20:45.140 very traumatic for her, but now she is grateful. So to all the parents out there just being guilted

01:20:49.980 for refusing to affirm, affirm, affirm, you've got the 88% statistic from Dr. Leonard Sachs. It's

01:20:55.920 longitudinal studies that they've done saying they'll go back. They will go back to biological sex if you

01:21:01.000 leave them alone. And then you've got, you know, Kat saying, I appreciate now my parents not affirming

01:21:06.460 me. And you've got, you take a deep dive, hence the title of the film Damage, into what happens,

01:21:13.600 these medical procedures that we do so willy nilly. And then for the poor detransitioners,

01:21:17.980 they're stuck with these, a lot of these results forever, even though they just want to default back

01:21:22.620 to their biological sex. One of those is Abel Garcia, who seems like such a sweet, good guy.

01:21:28.840 And he talks about going, he's a biological guy who transitioned to female for a while and then

01:21:33.920 realized didn't want any part of that and talked openly about what he's now dealing with. And

01:21:39.420 that's SOT4. Obviously I have genital atrophied. For those who don't know what that means,

01:21:44.100 it just means my, all my genitals are much, much, much smaller. So it makes it really hard to use

01:21:49.240 the restroom. I don't know if I'm fertile, fertile still. Memory fog, brain fog. Obviously it's

01:21:56.720 probably due to all the hormones I've taken. Chrissy, it can be a very rough road once you've

01:22:03.800 crossed over. Yeah. Oh my gosh. Looking back on these, it was, we filmed these like two months

01:22:08.760 ago. It just breaks my heart all over again. I just feel for these kids so bad. I'm calling

01:22:14.740 them kids. Abel and I are like the same age. He's like 25 too. But we were talking about this

01:22:19.980 at his place and going into their homes and seeing how difficult it is to just do kind of the everyday

01:22:25.260 day-to-day things when your life is so derailed. And like you said, Kat, her parents weren't

01:22:30.940 affirming. Abel's parents weren't necessarily affirming as well. And that played a big role

01:22:34.300 in really pushing him over the edge actually. But every child comes back to say, I'm very grateful

01:22:39.860 for my parent who said, no, we were just talking early in this interview about cell phones. Like I said,

01:22:45.720 I'm 25. I come around to it. I was so mad when I was 17 years old and my mom was stocking my phone,

01:22:51.300 but gosh, I am so thankful for it now because I don't have some of those issues. I don't have the

01:22:56.440 gender dysphoria. I don't have the body dysphoria because my mom said, absolutely not. We are not

01:23:01.200 giving you those things. There's no need for those things. And you know, of course your child is mad at

01:23:05.760 you at the time, but gosh, they come around. I know we've come around. I know Kat's come around. I know

01:23:10.280 Abel's come around. Chloe, I know I'm sure you could speak to it. How thankful you would have been if

01:23:14.680 someone would have said no to you. And that's why we say no to affirmation right off the bat.

01:23:19.200 So I agree. I'm with you, Megan. Just parents should continue saying no, the kids will come back.

01:23:25.860 You have to be the parent. Yeah. It's sometimes it's tough and Abel's story. It's not like he

01:23:29.720 transitioned just because his parents said, no, you're a boy. There's a whole story in the

01:23:33.760 documentary about the dad taking him to a prostitute and it was like bad, bad. Okay. This is,

01:23:38.020 this is not the way, but you can, you can not affirm in a loving way to Dr. Sacks called it

01:23:44.300 watchful waiting, um, watchful waiting nine times out of 10. It's going to, in order to the benefit

01:23:49.040 of the parents and the child, right. It's going to work out the way it ought to. Um, but Chloe,

01:23:53.040 you talked about how, so you wind up going on the cross gender hormones and then how soon,

01:23:59.260 how, like how old were you when you got your double mastectomy? I was 15. It happened just

01:24:05.560 after my sophomore year ended. I mean, sitting here now, can you believe that there was a doctor

01:24:11.240 who willingly performed that on you at age 15? No, frankly, I mean, even if somebody went through

01:24:19.340 it, it's just, I just can't believe the point we've gotten to. Right. Neither can I. It's,

01:24:26.980 it's so obviously wrong. And there's a very moving clip. Forgive me. I know I have you here, but I want

01:24:34.240 to play the clip in the, in the, from the film where you talk about sitting in a psychology class

01:24:38.300 and realizing what you'd done to yourself. This is side three. They grafted my nipples and there's

01:24:46.680 been like some, some pretty serious, um, complications arising from that. So I started

01:24:55.500 taking a class on psychology and child development. And, um, I had a lesson about, um,

01:25:03.680 maternal bonding. And, um, that was the first time that I really thought about being a parent and what

01:25:14.860 that might look like for me. And there was kind of a big emphasis on breastfeeding, not only as the

01:25:19.900 means of feeding your child, but it's also one of the ways that mothers bond with their children. And

01:25:26.460 after finding this out, I felt like a monster. I felt like I took something away from my future

01:25:34.080 children and that I would, I knew I would never be able to get that back. And it just, it shook me.

01:25:42.040 My God, you poor thing. This should not have happened to you. I mean, what was it from that

01:25:49.480 point forward, the detransitioning or what, what made you resolve? I don't, I don't want to do this

01:25:53.880 anymore. Um, that was the biggest thing that eventually led to me detransitioning. Um, about

01:26:02.040 a few weeks later, I just, I decided I couldn't, I couldn't keep doing this. And I stopped doing

01:26:07.800 the testosterone shots. I started putting away all my boy clothes and growing up by hair. I couldn't do

01:26:16.700 anything. I heard you use the word ashamed that you felt ashamed when you wanted to go back to your

01:26:23.100 biological sex. Can you talk about that? Yeah, that started before, before I started

01:26:30.080 detransitioning actually, um, after I got the surgery, um, I realized that I wanted to dress like

01:26:39.960 a girl again and present femininely. And that I didn't like the way that testosterone made me look

01:26:44.900 or sound. I had a very deep voice. It was a lot deeper than it is now. And I hated it. I hated all

01:26:51.860 of it. It was really hard for me to really pinpoint where the issue was because I thought for so long

01:26:59.340 that transition was benefiting me. And now everybody knew me as Leo. They knew me as their son, their

01:27:04.580 brother. They all knew me as everybody knew me as a boy now. And I didn't think there was any way of

01:27:09.560 going back. And I would, I would wear some old girl clothes in private and sometimes buy makeup from

01:27:16.700 the drugstore. And I would, I would, I would wear, I'd wear all that in private. And I started to resent

01:27:26.480 myself for it. I was really ashamed of myself. It was, it was shameful to admit that I was wrong.

01:27:31.880 Wow. To, to the point that Chrissy raised earlier after the double mastectomy, which is not a small

01:27:41.300 surgery, they dismiss it as, Oh, just top surgery. Like it's a nothing. It's not nothing. You started

01:27:47.240 to have some complications and were the doctors who were so supportive of your transition there for you

01:27:53.680 the way they were prior to the surgery. No, um, the complications that I'm facing now started to pop

01:28:01.680 up about two years after the surgery, actually. Um, last year I, I reached out to my surgeon to report

01:28:08.740 that not only that I had regretted my mastectomy, but also that I was having complications from it a few

01:28:16.520 years after. And I had to wear, I have to wear bandages over my chest every day because of it.

01:28:20.780 And my surgeon, I mean, all I could really get with him was about a five minute call over zoom.

01:28:27.200 And the whole time it felt like he was being very dismissive, disrespectful even. And his advice

01:28:33.320 was just, yeah, just keep covering it with bandages and put some Vaseline over it. And it didn't make

01:28:40.240 sense to me. It was like, I don't see why I need to do that, but maybe it might help. But when I did it,

01:28:45.460 it actually gave me a skin infection. And that was the last time I trusted anybody on the team that

01:28:54.620 helped me to transition. I know now you've retained Harmeet Dillon. We love her, uh, to help you in a,

01:29:02.220 in a legal battle against these doctors. Is it, is it all of them that the surgeon, the person who

01:29:08.100 affirmed that like, they're all going to be challenged now on this quick draw affirmation

01:29:14.680 of a, of a minor? Yes. The surgeon, the gender specialist who referred me to the surgeon

01:29:20.220 and the endocrinologist who put me on hormones, as well as the hospital that I got surgery at

01:29:25.460 and Kaiser, my healthcare provider as a whole. Good. And what are you trying to prove with the

01:29:31.040 lawsuit? What do you, what do you, what's satisfaction to you there? I want to get

01:29:36.960 justice for what happened to me. And I want to scare off other doctors from doing this to children

01:29:41.500 and to create a precedent for other kids and other young people and just other people in general who

01:29:48.480 are going through the same thing to be able to do the same for themselves. Chrissy, this is so

01:29:53.580 necessary because I mean, look what California is doing now, as you have some States here looking more

01:29:59.160 at like those Nordic countries that are slowing this down. And you got States like Texas or Georgia

01:30:05.220 saying, well, you know what? We might want to pause too. This is getting a little aggressive with our

01:30:08.600 children. And you got California being like, we'll be the sanctuary. Send all of your kids here. We'll

01:30:13.420 do all of the gender surgeries here. I mean, the only way to stop this is, is through lawsuits through

01:30:19.960 the law. Absolutely. I mean, that's, I live in Nashville. We underwent all of that with the

01:30:24.920 Vanderbilt clinic as well. It needs to be stopped. And that is really the only way that goes

01:30:28.980 about it, but you know, Megan, I was just reading a really great article over the weekend about how

01:30:33.220 it's really not just doctors that are pushing this or the hormone, uh, you know, organizations,

01:30:40.820 big pharma that are pushing this as well. There are the association for, I believe it's a plastic

01:30:45.720 surgeons, uh, ASPC, uh, they are actively pushing right now to lobby against all these bands that stop

01:30:54.900 transgender minors from getting surgeries because they want the money. And time and time again,

01:31:00.000 these transgender activists, it goes back to my original point I made earlier, but these transgender

01:31:04.100 activists, they should be saying, no, you know, we want these surgeries to be done for people in a

01:31:08.160 healthy, safe way. But the plastic surgeons are just looking to make money at these hospitals and

01:31:13.580 they're profiting off of young kids who are entrusting them with their health. And then when

01:31:18.440 something goes wrong, like what happened with Chloe, they're nowhere to be found.

01:31:22.920 That was on the Vanderbilt tapes that Matt Walsh got his hands on where the head of the program was

01:31:28.180 saying, you know how much money we make off this. This is great. Like she was talking about not the,

01:31:32.920 the tender ages that they were doing these surgeries on, but how much money it would add to

01:31:37.260 Vanderbilt's bottom line. And then publicly they deny, they deny that they do that, that they,

01:31:41.840 that they're worried about money or that usually they say they don't operate on minors.

01:31:44.980 Right. Well, that's what Mount Sinai says. They said they don't operate on minors. And then we

01:31:48.760 got Dr. Safer on tape saying he's done it on 17 year olds. That's a minor.

01:31:53.380 So Chloe, what happened like with your parents, were they relieved that you wanted to go back to

01:31:58.900 your biological sex or were they, you know, how did that go?

01:32:04.100 Um, I mean, they felt a lot of guilt because they, they feel like they played a large role in this.

01:32:12.360 I mean, obviously they had, they had to sign off on all this and they personally, I don't blame them

01:32:18.200 one bit because they, they too were lied to and their hand was forced in this. They were told that

01:32:24.980 I was going to kill myself. It's so hard for parents being told by all the authorities that this is the

01:32:32.520 right move. What do you, what do you think today? You know, there's a big debate. Um, should we use

01:32:38.800 people's pronouns? Even the other night, I mentioned that online pornography seminar that I went to via

01:32:44.120 zoom for our school. And they're talking about kids, there's boys and girls and they're talking

01:32:48.300 about, well, sis boys and girls are this. And, you know, and I was like, you know, 99% of all boys

01:32:55.940 and girls out there are sis, meaning their gender identity aligns with their biological sex. You don't

01:33:00.240 need to say sis. You don't need to stop it. Stop throwing it out there at every turn. Like gender is just

01:33:03.980 this thing. You can, you know, it's like, just stop it. It bothers me. I have to say, although I

01:33:08.460 will see somebody's pronoun of choice, unless it's they, which I just, that one's taken. It's too

01:33:12.240 confusing. But where do you, where do you land on that Chloe and the pronoun thing? Um, I mean,

01:33:18.640 personally, I will use somebody's preferred pronouns as long as they don't, they're not disrespectful.

01:33:24.700 Like they're, they get, they treat me the way that, that they want to be treated.

01:33:33.600 Um, as for how I feel about this whole thing, I don't believe in a trans child, but really,

01:33:38.280 I don't believe in a lot of people use the phrase real transgender to describe people who

01:33:42.880 experience dysphoria. I don't really believe in that, but I mean, I know that dysphoria is a very

01:33:48.500 real thing, but I don't think that, I think that if an adult is fully informed, they should be able

01:33:52.860 to make the choice to transition if nothing else has worked. But I don't think children should be

01:33:58.260 allowed to do this at all. It's never appropriate for kids. And Chrissy, how many detransitioners do

01:34:05.520 you think are out there? Well, we have a Reddit group that has 46,000 people, and I can only imagine

01:34:11.560 that that's just as a half maybe of the population. Uh, Walt, who is again, one of our subjects has a

01:34:18.480 organization called sex change regret.com. And he says he is constantly bombarded with individuals

01:34:23.820 who are regretting and the process of regretting and the process of detransitioning. They are

01:34:28.380 constantly coming to him and his inboxes flooded. Um, and he has to work slowly to help every individual

01:34:35.560 who goes through this. It's unknown. And the sad part is, it's just like with COVID and America refusing

01:34:42.400 to do any studies on this, the U S and big pharma here refuses to do any studies on this issue,

01:34:48.040 on detransitioning on the effects of cross-sex hormones, et cetera. We know very little.

01:34:53.740 Yeah. And we, thanks to you, we know a little bit more, but I know Chloe's now formed a group

01:34:58.400 helping kids who are going through this. Good for you, Chloe. Good luck on your lawsuit. And Chrissy,

01:35:03.040 thanks so much for helping to shine a light. You can watch damaged the trans of America's kids

01:35:07.680 on the daily caller this Wednesday, go to daily caller.com to check it out.

01:35:13.560 Don't forget to tune in tomorrow when our friends from the fifth column join us with a preview of the

01:35:17.260 state of the union. Hey, before we go, happy birthday, Cardinal Dolan.

01:35:22.460 Thanks for listening to the Megan Kelly show. No BS, no agenda, and no fear.

The Megyn Kelly Show - February 06, 2023

Biden Blinks on Balloon, and Detransitioner Sues Her Enablers, with Rob O'Neill, Chloe Cole, and Chrissy Clark ｜ Ep. 487

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