The Megyn Kelly Show - Biden Corruption in Plain Sight, and Residents Fed Up With Crime, with Andrew Klavan, Alan Dershowitz, and More

00:00:00.420 Welcome to The Megyn Kelly Show, your home for open, honest, and provocative conversations.

00:00:11.740 Hey everyone, I'm Megyn Kelly. Welcome to The Megyn Kelly Show.

00:00:15.120 Donald Trump is getting arraigned again later this afternoon, this time in D.C.

00:00:21.340 CNN and MSNBC are in wall-to-wall coverage.

00:00:24.800 Does anyone else have indictment fatigue?

00:00:29.200 It's disgusting what they're doing, but I mean, they are analyzing this thing.

00:00:33.080 And of course, every conclusion is he's guilty.

00:00:35.760 Jack Smith has got him dead to rights.

00:00:37.720 This is the whole narrative that they are pushing on their viewers.

00:00:40.640 And they're wrong. They're wrong.

00:00:42.440 And they're going to find out they're wrong once this case goes up to the U.S. Supreme Court.

00:00:46.440 Meantime, there are other big stories happening this week, like, oh, Hunter Biden's business partner,

00:00:50.960 Devin Archer's explosive testimony before Congress, and now interview on cam with Tucker Carlson

00:00:57.040 about potential Biden corruption.

00:01:00.700 Funny how that works, how that's getting totally ignored, right?

00:01:04.000 As they're all in on Trump and what an alleged criminal he is.

00:01:08.700 Joining me now, Andrew Klavan, host of The Andrew Klavan Show and a bestselling author and screenwriter.

00:01:15.760 Andrew, welcome back to the show.

00:01:17.120 So this is this is how I see it.

00:01:18.820 Trump right now is winning the nomination process.

00:01:22.760 He's winning far and away, 40 points ahead.

00:01:26.320 Joe Biden is trying to have him jailed.

00:01:29.200 That is Biden's Justice Department.

00:01:30.780 Make no mistake about it.

00:01:32.080 Jack Smith answers to Merrick Garland, who answers to Joe Biden.

00:01:35.540 Biden's trying to have Trump jailed.

00:01:38.400 Biden's corruption as vice president, sitting vice president is starting to come out.

00:01:43.740 He's being exposed and frankly, the folly of the first Trump impeachment is being exposed

00:01:51.020 day by day because you recall that that's what Trump was trying to call attention to the

00:01:55.720 Biden corruption in Ukraine and whether there would be a real investigation into that before

00:02:00.160 we started giving them more money.

00:02:01.640 That's the landscape right now.

00:02:03.260 The media has only one story, and that is back to damn January 6th, which we've already

00:02:11.040 fully investigated, not once, but twice with a second impeachment and full congressional

00:02:16.760 hearings, including primetime exposés that we were subjected to.

00:02:21.120 This is a political issue.

00:02:22.880 It's not a federal crime.

00:02:24.320 No matter what Jack Smith tries to tell us, he's got a compliant media.

00:02:28.480 And all this happens as we have a New York Times poll showing Trump is far and away the

00:02:33.280 leader when it comes to getting this nomination on the GOP side.

00:02:36.380 He's extremely strong with every group, and yet he's tied with Joe Biden in a general election.

00:02:43.740 Both men remain extremely unpopular, Trump for all the various reasons, and Biden because

00:02:49.340 of his age and his economy.

00:02:52.020 So the Democrats, I'm sure, would love to sub out Biden and sub in a new person.

00:02:58.180 Right now they're stuck with him.

00:02:59.420 He's vulnerable because of those reasons.

00:03:01.840 And they are doing everything in their power, they and their media allies, to focus everyone

00:03:06.940 again on January 6th, in particular the riot, which really has nothing to do with the Jack

00:03:12.020 Smith indictment, though he tried to shoehorn it in for color.

00:03:15.080 What do you make of it all?

00:03:17.080 Well, I'm finding it fascinating.

00:03:18.980 I mean, I've spent most of my career as a writer of crime stories and inventing villains

00:03:23.900 and inventing corrupt schemes.

00:03:25.840 And corruption has always been really fascinating to me, the way it not just moves through the

00:03:30.000 human spirit, but the way it moves through human systems.

00:03:33.000 And there comes a point when a system becomes so corrupt that the corruption becomes purposely

00:03:39.160 blatant because the corruption itself becomes an instrument of power.

00:03:43.160 And that's where we are with the DOJ.

00:03:44.780 Ever since Hunter Biden's sweetheart deal collapsed in court, when the judge realized that they

00:03:50.320 had shoehorned in an immunity clause in a place where she wasn't supposed to see it and

00:03:54.180 couldn't do anything about it once it was in place.

00:03:55.820 The question of whether Biden's DOJ is corrupt is no longer a question.

00:04:00.380 It is actually an established fact.

00:04:02.380 We now see that they have slow walked Hunter Biden's crimes so that the statute of limitations

00:04:07.320 have run out where they position indictments of Donald Trump to come right after any time

00:04:12.660 Biden's corruption is exposed.

00:04:14.600 It's followed by an indictment or piling on more charges onto an indictment.

00:04:18.500 They are acting openly political.

00:04:20.400 And the message is essentially, we're doing this not because it's right, not because it's

00:04:26.080 important.

00:04:26.440 We're doing this because we can.

00:04:27.760 That's the message they're sending to the public.

00:04:30.180 And when they're surrounded by a news media that has also become ideologically corrupt

00:04:36.280 and is willing to cover up Biden's malfeasance and his lifelong corruption and focus only on

00:04:42.880 Donald Trump's faults and the indictments as if they were true, where this latest indictment

00:04:47.260 is utterly ridiculous, we have the problem that the people, the good people, the straight

00:04:51.940 people who are watching this really can't believe their eyes.

00:04:55.160 They can't believe they're seeing what they're seeing.

00:04:56.920 And the only people who are stating clearly just how corrupt the Biden administration and

00:05:02.820 the DOJ has become are the same people who come up with kind of kooky conspiracy theories.

00:05:07.720 So the same guys who think that Barack Obama just strangled his chef because he didn't like

00:05:13.720 the avocado toast or the people saying, oh, my God, you know, this DOJ is utterly, utterly

00:05:19.200 corrupt.

00:05:19.680 And that's a problem because now ordinary people are saying, well, is this a, you know, is this

00:05:24.100 a conspiracy or a conspiracy theory?

00:05:26.660 It's not true that I don't think that Obama strangled his chef, but it is true that the

00:05:31.340 DOJ is absolutely corrupt.

00:05:32.680 This is even true of people that I deeply respect and admire, guys like Tucker Carlson,

00:05:37.560 who's doing great work and just got an exclusive interview with Devin Archer.

00:05:41.440 That was that's terrific.

00:05:43.140 And it's on Twitter.

00:05:44.240 But Tucker has also come out and said that we now know for sure that the government is

00:05:48.200 hiding spacecraft with alien bodies in it.

00:05:51.360 And so when you do that and then you go and say, oh, yeah, and here's Devin Archer.

00:05:55.420 And he is actually established pretty clearly and pretty much beyond argument that Biden and

00:06:01.080 his son have been colluding in corruption and in influence peddling.

00:06:04.880 It muddies the waters.

00:06:06.680 I mean, it's part of the information crisis that the Internet has created, that we have such

00:06:10.280 a gusher of information coming from so many different sources that it's really hard to

00:06:15.100 pin down the truth from this moment, from the moment Hunter Biden's sweetheart deal collapsed,

00:06:20.680 the DOJ's corruption and the fact that the DOJ is handling one set of charges one way and

00:06:26.620 another set of charges another way is just an established fact.

00:06:29.780 And at this point, the only thing we can hope for is that the public basically reacts by throwing

00:06:35.700 the bums out because you're right.

00:06:39.660 Donald Trump is very popular with the Republican base, but he is incredibly unpopular with the

00:06:44.460 middle of the voters who make basically establish the results of an election.

00:06:50.240 And Biden, I'm not even convinced that Biden is going to be the candidate anymore.

00:06:54.140 I don't see how he can possibly go on.

00:06:56.180 So this is a really interesting point.

00:06:57.820 It's a really a real moment of change when our government is now established at the highest

00:07:03.860 level to be corrupt and to be acting corruptly and to have thrown out the rule of law for

00:07:08.120 political purposes, as if we were in South America rather than North America.

00:07:13.260 And the question is, will the voters have someone they can select and are willing to select

00:07:18.440 to make that stop?

00:07:20.160 It is it's a dangerous moment.

00:07:21.400 Against all this, we get news that Ron DeSantis and Gavin Newsom are going to do a debate

00:07:30.540 hosted by Hannity, a two hour debate that I presume will air on Fox News.

00:07:36.200 And that's fascinating, right?

00:07:38.020 Because these guys are obviously on deck in case the leaders fall, in case Trump's in jail

00:07:45.080 and can't run, in case Biden, God forbid, dies or is just incapacitated.

00:07:51.200 Or realizes he can no longer do the job and gets ousted by his party.

00:07:54.800 These are the two guys who are realistically on deck.

00:07:57.560 It's not RFKJ.

00:07:58.960 It's certainly not Marianne Williamson over on the Dem side.

00:08:02.580 And on the Republican side, though, the voters prefer Trump to DeSantis.

00:08:07.680 DeSantis is an acceptable alternative.

00:08:10.100 He's got some 65 percent or approval rating amongst Republicans.

00:08:14.520 They like him.

00:08:15.320 It's not like they can't stand DeSantis.

00:08:17.240 They just prefer Trump.

00:08:18.460 So if Trump, for some reason, isn't going to do it now, you have the two also rands about

00:08:24.840 to go head to head.

00:08:25.720 And what I think will be a really fascinating exchange, I think it's a very smart move by

00:08:30.480 both of them to sort of remind their respective electorates.

00:08:33.980 I'm here and I stand for all the things you love, but I'm young and I'm vibrant and I may

00:08:41.260 have political baggage of the kind any politician has.

00:08:44.140 Hey, here's how I governed Florida.

00:08:45.540 I don't like it.

00:08:46.500 Here's how I governed California.

00:08:48.120 I don't like it.

00:08:48.920 That's normal.

00:08:49.900 But I don't have all the other baggage like I'm corrupt.

00:08:53.080 And so is my son.

00:08:54.120 I may have sold the vice presidency and Trump.

00:08:57.460 You know, we could go down the list of the number of things he's done or been accused of.

00:09:00.480 You know, beyond this, this is the debate I feel we should be having.

00:09:04.940 Here are two people in exemplary states, states that are perfect examples of the results of

00:09:10.580 their policies.

00:09:11.780 California is a mess.

00:09:13.580 I just got back from there.

00:09:14.700 The place is riddled with crime, riddled with homelessness.

00:09:18.560 Nothing works.

00:09:19.440 Everybody's leaving and they're going to Florida.

00:09:21.400 So this is a great moment for the governor of Florida and the governor of California to

00:09:25.480 be arguing with one another.

00:09:26.480 I know people don't want to hear any more about the lockdowns and about COVID and Dr.

00:09:31.420 Fauci.

00:09:31.820 People have lost interest in that.

00:09:34.080 But their history and how they got through that is a history of oppression in California

00:09:37.840 and a history of growing freedom in Florida.

00:09:40.880 I mean, Florida is a place that I can barely stand because of the heat.

00:09:44.200 Everybody I know has moved to Florida and they love it.

00:09:46.740 They just absolutely adore it.

00:09:48.460 So that is if we care about the country, if we care about the future of the country,

00:09:51.880 that's the real debate we should be having.

00:09:53.480 And I just want to add, too, that DeSantis had a really rough launch to his campaign.

00:09:59.280 I called it out the minute it happened.

00:10:00.820 I said, this guy is not doing well on the national stage.

00:10:03.960 He's turned a corner.

00:10:05.260 Now, he hasn't gone down the new street yet, but he's actually turned a corner.

00:10:08.360 He looks a lot different than he did starting out.

00:10:11.580 And he is beginning to make his case a lot more smoothly and a lot more clearly.

00:10:14.920 And he's beginning to realize that he has got to stop talking to the choir and he's got

00:10:21.540 to start going on with George Stephanopoulos and the other leftists and show what he is

00:10:27.560 when he is confronted with the left, because that's what people really love about him.

00:10:31.160 They love two things about him.

00:10:32.020 They love, one, that he's a cultural warrior.

00:10:33.920 And two, he's a genuinely competent governor.

00:10:37.400 You know, he actually puts things back together when they fall apart.

00:10:39.780 And he's smart and he's a veteran and he's all the things you should be to be a politician

00:10:44.680 like that.

00:10:45.100 And as you say, he's young.

00:10:46.260 I am so tired of being governed by people in their 70s and 80s.

00:10:51.520 You know, I joke about this, but it's true.

00:10:53.760 As an old guy, I can tell you that if you live your life well, you start to have a sort

00:10:59.180 of sense of the big picture and you start to realize life is tragic and you start to have

00:11:03.600 a lot of compassion for people that maybe you didn't have before.

00:11:06.600 You shouldn't be president anymore.

00:11:07.820 You should basically be a philosopher at that point.

00:11:10.380 And if you don't have that attitude, you're probably not a good person.

00:11:14.260 It's terrifying.

00:11:15.160 When you look at Dianne Feinstein, age 90, she's forgotten how to vote.

00:11:20.120 I mean, she's been in the Senate for, what, 50 years?

00:11:21.760 She's forgotten that you just have to say I.

00:11:24.020 There was a report out today, I think, at The New York Times.

00:11:27.120 Her daughter, I think it is, has power of attorney for her.

00:11:30.360 So you've got a legal decision maker in her life that is not named Dianne Feinstein.

00:11:35.700 And yet she's still working actively in the Senate.

00:11:38.200 Oh, my God.

00:11:39.100 Not to mention what we saw with Mitch McConnell last week and what's happening with the sitting

00:11:44.700 president who is not acknowledging any of his cognitive decline and yet running again.

00:11:49.620 And the Dems don't seem all that interested in talking to Gavin Newsom right now.

00:11:52.720 It is terrifying what's happening with all due respect to the age and among us who are

00:11:57.780 holding it together, like our pal Alan Dershowitz, who's just a freak of nature.

00:12:02.800 He's the exception, not the rule.

00:12:04.840 It's not that an old person can't be vital and awake and alert.

00:12:08.140 It is simply that if you were reading this in a history textbook 100 years from now, you'd

00:12:12.040 be looking at the fall of the republic.

00:12:13.580 You'd be saying, this is what a republic looks like just before it crumbles.

00:12:15.940 These desiccated, querulous old men wandering around, barely knowing what they are without

00:12:20.640 the moral force to push forward our traditions and our policies without any kind of new vision.

00:12:26.040 When is the last time anybody who has been in the leadership has put forward something

00:12:31.000 actually new that will preserve our traditions into the coming generation?

00:12:35.200 That's what I want to hear.

00:12:36.240 I want to hear young people telling me, you know, when I say young, I'm talking about 40,

00:12:39.780 50 people in the prime of life who can see the future a little bit.

00:12:43.760 You know, Biden can't even see him two feet in front of him without falling down.

00:12:47.840 He hardly sees the future.

00:12:49.660 And at this point, Trump, you know, I voted for him twice.

00:12:52.380 I'll vote for him again if I have to.

00:12:54.020 But he's really just, you know, doing the Trump routine at this point.

00:12:58.520 He is not actually putting forward any policies and showing how they can be enacted in a realistic

00:13:04.520 way.

00:13:05.040 And he didn't do it before.

00:13:06.200 And this is something that DeSantis has right about him.

00:13:08.700 It's not personal.

00:13:10.160 It's just that he did not build the wall.

00:13:11.820 He didn't do the things that he said, and he did turn the country over to bureaucrats

00:13:14.880 when COVID hit.

00:13:15.820 And I think that that is the argument against him.

00:13:18.660 You know, one of the things DeSantis is doing is he's got this.

00:13:22.900 Forgive me if I don't get this perfectly right, but he's got this incentive program for teachers

00:13:26.460 in Florida where he gives them essentially a stipend to go learn more about civics and American

00:13:31.900 history and stuff involving the Federalist Papers.

00:13:35.080 Like, it's great.

00:13:36.720 He's actually trying to change the way teachers see America and our history by offering them

00:13:43.220 incentives to study this with, you know, on the taxpayer dime.

00:13:47.040 This is amazing because it's not just, you know, saying to the teachers, you can't teach

00:13:52.180 critical race theory.

00:13:53.080 Don't divide the children based on race.

00:13:54.780 Don't force pronouns on the children.

00:13:56.500 It's saying, would you you should go take a look at the beauty of America?

00:14:00.340 You should learn a little bit about American history, the real American history, not Nicole

00:14:04.280 Hannah-Jones version version of it.

00:14:06.400 And then and then you can be exposed to the children.

00:14:08.600 I love this.

00:14:09.540 This is a clever way of kind of undoing some of the indoctrination that the national education

00:14:14.800 that the teachers union, you know, at the federal level is trying to push on these people.

00:14:19.780 You know, Megan, I never wanted to be a person who was on camera.

00:14:23.140 Writers tend to be hermits.

00:14:24.420 We tend to be very private people.

00:14:25.920 And the only reason I did it was when I returned after living abroad for 70 years, I returned

00:14:30.920 to America, I realized that we had lost the culture and that the people who cared about

00:14:35.400 liberty, who cared about religion, who cared about American traditions and history knew

00:14:39.940 nothing about the culture.

00:14:40.980 They had think tanks about policy.

00:14:42.720 They had think tanks about law.

00:14:44.020 They had think tanks about urban development.

00:14:46.080 They had no think tanks about the arts, about culture, about the way people actually communicate.

00:14:50.740 That has changed since when I started talking about this, people looked at me like I was

00:14:54.700 crazy and that's like over 20 years ago.

00:14:56.980 Now we get it.

00:14:58.400 Now the right understands.

00:14:59.740 And when I say the culture, I don't just mean movies and books and plays.

00:15:04.220 I also mean Dylan Mulvaney, putting Dylan Mulvaney on a Bud Light can.

00:15:08.640 I also mean, you know, what people are being taught in college.

00:15:13.040 When I see old-fashioned conservatives like the Wall Street Journal hitting DeSantis on the

00:15:18.780 fact that he's fighting a culture war, the culture war was already on.

00:15:22.160 It was just only one side was waging war.

00:15:24.740 And we were sitting here stupidly saying, you've got to win that, you know, that congressional

00:15:28.580 district in Ohio and pouring money into some, you know, some small race without any thought

00:15:34.540 of how people live, what our children learn, and what people, how people behave and act.

00:15:39.860 And so instead we have a right wing that has been shut down, has been demonized, has been

00:15:44.620 called racist and sexist.

00:15:45.880 And so when they hear a clown like Nick Fuentes, who, you know, is a Jew-hating fascist, little

00:15:52.300 giggly creep, when they hear him, he sounds like he's speaking something bold and something

00:15:57.080 brave because everybody else has been silenced from saying anything.

00:16:00.260 When they hear an Andrew Tate, who's a pimp and a woman abuser, say, this is masculinity,

00:16:05.160 it's because, and they listen to that, it's because they're so tired of being told that

00:16:08.940 manhood is toxic that Tate sounds like he's making some kind of sense when actually he's

00:16:13.580 just talking criminality.

00:16:15.500 This is the moment to fight these wars.

00:16:18.720 DeSantis has got to just ignore the Wall Street Journal, all the conservatives who are saying,

00:16:23.160 oh, please, please don't fight the culture war.

00:16:25.480 Just talk to us about policy.

00:16:26.960 No, that's the war we're in.

00:16:28.880 That's the war we're losing.

00:16:30.320 And that's the war we've been losing for 50 years.

00:16:32.420 And now it's just starting to turn around.

00:16:34.720 I can see the cracks in the ice.

00:16:36.380 I'm really hopeful.

00:16:37.280 I don't know if I will live to see the rebirth of American culture, but hopefully I'll see the

00:16:42.460 promised land from afar because I actually now everything has changed in the last few

00:16:47.220 years and people understand that we are in a culture war and we have been losing it and

00:16:51.420 we don't have to lose it because the majority is on our side.

00:16:54.480 Yes, it's a battle for the soul of America.

00:16:56.440 When people say the culture wars aren't important, I think, do you have children?

00:17:00.320 Do you have any idea what's being done to them?

00:17:02.820 You know, some of my friends like in the Midwest, they haven't had this lunacy wash over them

00:17:06.680 yet.

00:17:06.900 So they actually are like genuinely unaware of how severe the problem's gotten in places

00:17:12.340 like California and New York and the bluest of the blue states.

00:17:15.980 And for those of us who are living it firsthand, it's it's a five alarm fire.

00:17:20.900 Thank God for people like Ron DeSantis who are willing to take it on and expose these people.

00:17:25.720 And I believe Trump will, too.

00:17:27.100 I also believe like Trump's hasn't been as vocal on things like the trans thing, though

00:17:31.180 he's going to get asked about it and we'll get it all cleared up about where he stands on it

00:17:35.460 now, eight years after his original positions.

00:17:37.800 But the culture war must be fought.

00:17:39.280 And I really feel like people who don't think it's a thing must not have young children, because

00:17:42.840 if you have young children, you're deeply worried about this.

00:17:46.020 This is another thing.

00:17:47.100 It has highlighted the role that mothers play is so important.

00:17:50.780 There's a movement going on.

00:17:51.840 It's just beginning.

00:17:52.980 The only person covering it, I cover it on my show all the time, a movement of women who

00:17:57.080 are essentially liberal.

00:17:58.500 They're basically on the left who have suddenly realized that feminism promised them liberation,

00:18:05.360 but in fact has eliminated them as women, as females, and are suddenly saying, you know

00:18:11.280 what, I'm not a conservative, but I'm not a conservative, but I like having children.

00:18:15.560 I like being a mom.

00:18:16.620 I like care.

00:18:17.200 I care very deeply about my children.

00:18:20.460 And these are intellectual women who are writing about this and declaring a new kind of

00:18:25.280 feminism, a feminism that does not exclude or attack femininity, which feminism has done

00:18:30.020 for the last 30 years.

00:18:31.540 And I think this is the most important thing happening in the country, because the way the

00:18:36.940 women go, men kind of go along with them.

00:18:39.880 They want men like women.

00:18:41.640 This is the thing.

00:18:42.340 You know, the left has managed to make it sound like we all hate each other.

00:18:44.980 But in fact, men loving women is kind of the central joy of life.

00:18:48.800 It's the central mortal joy of life.

00:18:50.740 And so they've problematized it, but it's actually the core of our society.

00:18:54.200 And femininity enhances homemaking, it enhances child rearing, family building, and religion.

00:19:01.280 And all of those things are breaks against authoritarian state power.

00:19:05.880 And so the authoritarian state hates femininity.

00:19:08.280 They hate moms.

00:19:09.380 There's a reason that Merrick Garland is investigating parents as if they're terrorists.

00:19:13.800 They have always hated this.

00:19:15.320 And the idea that women should not be in traditional female positions has nothing to do with whether

00:19:22.160 they also work.

00:19:22.960 It has nothing to do with all the other things that they can do with their life.

00:19:25.440 But the idea that they should not be moms, they should not be in traditional female positions

00:19:29.760 is an authoritarian attack on the bulwark of freedom.

00:19:33.920 And I just think that that is turning around, too.

00:19:35.980 It's a very hopeful sign.

00:19:37.380 A lot of what's happening in our politics is very dark.

00:19:39.520 A lot of the corruption is very dark.

00:19:41.220 But beneath that, I'm really starting to see a kind of cultural spring coming up through

00:19:48.300 the intellectual frost that has been blocking it for all this time.

00:19:52.580 It's actually an optimistic moment if you can see through the darkness.

00:19:55.580 I want to talk about all of this.

00:19:58.880 I've got there's so many examples that I wanted to raise with you of the lunacy on the left

00:20:05.360 on some of these issues.

00:20:06.440 But before we get to that, before we move off of the hard news piece, I do want to talk

00:20:10.140 about Devin Archer for a minute.

00:20:11.960 Devin Archer.

00:20:12.820 I can't say it any better than Jonathan Turley.

00:20:16.120 You know, he's a law professor at George Washington University.

00:20:18.120 He's a very fair guy.

00:20:19.520 He sent out a tweet thread, so I'm just going to read it rather than paraphrase it so people

00:20:23.040 can understand.

00:20:23.740 And this is a summary of what he's read in the Devin Archer transcript, you know, because

00:20:28.700 he gave testimony behind closed doors on Monday to Congress.

00:20:32.020 It wasn't on cam, but it was transcribed.

00:20:34.500 And here's and Jonathan and they just released it today, the transcription.

00:20:37.700 So here's a couple of highlights.

00:20:39.180 He writes, the Devin Archer transcript is out.

00:20:41.800 So Archer said the Ukrainians wanted Hunter Biden to help relieve pressure from the prosecutors

00:20:47.140 looking into corruption.

00:20:48.800 You remember that they in particular Burisma was under investigation and they knew that

00:20:55.300 it was going to start to get ugly for them and they wanted relief from that investigation.

00:21:01.060 They wanted the Bidens to take the heat off.

00:21:03.780 Biden later insisted on the firing of the prosecutor just to put some meat on those bones.

00:21:08.120 Specifically what Devin Archer said, this is my own research here.

00:21:11.800 That was that the Ukrainians wanted Hunter to help relieve the pressure from Shokin.

00:21:15.540 That's the prosecutor.

00:21:16.920 And that they asked Hunter to make a phone call.

00:21:18.840 This is what Devin Archer said.

00:21:20.060 Asked Hunter to make a phone call to D.C.

00:21:23.140 to help them.

00:21:25.000 Burisma, this Ukrainian board, this Ukrainian oligarch with said pressure.

00:21:28.660 That was in December 2015 at a Burisma board meeting that happened in Dubai.

00:21:34.380 Hunter was there.

00:21:35.040 Devin Archer was there.

00:21:35.920 The Burisma CEO was there.

00:21:37.200 And they turned to Hunter and said, please call D.C.

00:21:40.120 Help get this pressure off of us.

00:21:42.380 Three months later, three to four months later, March 2016, that prosecutor was fired.

00:21:48.200 Yes, it had the support of the international community, but it was Joe Biden who made it

00:21:51.620 happen.

00:21:52.220 That's the truth.

00:21:53.340 And you could say, oh, OK, he had absolutely no personal motive on it.

00:21:57.360 He hadn't you know, he had no idea that Hunter and Burisma wanted this guy fired.

00:22:02.320 But according to Devin Archer, he did have an idea.

00:22:05.240 He was on the phone with them.

00:22:07.000 And according to that FBI form 1023, he was specifically told that the stakes of this

00:22:12.540 relationship were fire.

00:22:14.660 This guy's show can now Devin Archer said he did not know about any five million dollar

00:22:18.840 bribe, either to Hunter or to Joe, as alleged in that FBI form.

00:22:22.000 But he did say, speaking back up on the Turley, Turley texts, quote, there was a discussion

00:22:26.680 of one hundred and forty two thousand purchase of a luxury car for Hunter as part of his

00:22:32.060 payments, as well as various wire transfers.

00:22:35.760 Devin Archer said the Biden brand was Joe Biden and that that's what was being sold.

00:22:41.080 It was clear that they were not looking for Hunter and meaning his expertise.

00:22:45.680 Burisma owner Zlochevsky reportedly said Hunter was stupid and his dog was smarter.

00:22:50.140 Here, Devin Archer appears with Tucker and talks about the many, many calls, at least

00:22:55.820 20, that Joe Biden had while Hunter was in the midst of these business meetings.

00:23:00.820 And here he is on camera now describing that.

00:23:04.560 It's not one.

00:23:06.320 I think I can I can definitively say at particular dinners or meetings, he knew there were business

00:23:12.120 associates and he you know, we or if I was there, I was a business associate to to be,

00:23:17.320 you know, completely clear on the calls.

00:23:19.680 I don't know if it was an orchestrated call in or not.

00:23:22.640 It certainly was powerful, though, because, you know, if you're sitting with a foreign

00:23:25.820 business person and you hear the vice president's voice, that's prizing up.

00:23:29.700 I mean, that's that's that's pretty impactful stuff.

00:23:34.400 That's it.

00:23:34.940 Exactly right.

00:23:35.700 That's it.

00:23:36.000 Exactly.

00:23:36.420 And unlike what Dan Goldman says, which is it was just niceties.

00:23:39.740 It's just about the weather and there's nothing to see there.

00:23:42.960 Yeah.

00:23:43.240 Dan Goldman is now my favorite politician because he's just hilarious.

00:23:46.040 He's so corrupt that he actually is a walking joke.

00:23:48.680 So dishonest.

00:23:50.080 But but let's not forget this.

00:23:51.400 Not only did Joe Biden brag about getting the prosecutor fired because he said he was

00:23:56.140 corrupt, but he got him fired by threatening to withhold American aid.

00:23:59.520 So he was using your and my money that's supposed to be put into, you know, building

00:24:03.960 countries, helping countries, whatever we want to do with it, whatever serves our interests.

00:24:07.260 And he used it to get this guy fired.

00:24:09.200 So if you look at the timeline, the timeline is absolutely incredible.

00:24:13.240 Barack Obama, who, who, by the way, I really dislike him as a political figure, but I always

00:24:19.340 thought he's not money corrupt.

00:24:20.980 He's he's an ideologue.

00:24:22.420 He actually is like the old Maoists.

00:24:24.560 He's actually honest in that way because he's actually trying to accomplish a political

00:24:27.920 goal.

00:24:28.760 He puts Joe Biden, his vice president, in charge of corruption in Ukraine and dealing with the

00:24:35.280 corruption in Ukraine.

00:24:36.280 And Hunter Biden then starts to get these jobs with Burisma and starts to work with Ukrainians.

00:24:42.720 So Joe Biden says to us, I never talked business with my son.

00:24:46.700 And I and I my thought now is, why not?

00:24:49.300 Why didn't you say, son, I'm in charge of dealing with corruption in Ukraine?

00:24:53.720 Don't take that job.

00:24:54.820 Don't be there.

00:24:55.460 There is a kind of a weird iron grip of extortion and blackmail between father and son here, where

00:25:03.660 there's no way Joe Biden can abandon his son because his son has the goods on him and they

00:25:09.340 are coming out.

00:25:10.300 And let's also not forget that the minute that form was released showing or at least accusing,

00:25:16.720 alleging that there was a bribe, a 10 million dollar bribe offered to these clowns.

00:25:20.360 It was the next day that the federal indictments against Trump started coming down.

00:25:24.680 So every time a malfeasance by the Bidens is exposed, it's followed in a single day by

00:25:30.440 an indictment again and again.

00:25:32.120 It's happened now three times.

00:25:33.460 So this is all this chain.

00:25:35.480 If you just look at the timeline, the timing, the way things happen, the corruption is so

00:25:40.520 blatant and so arrogant that I can only think, and this is what I do believe, that they are

00:25:47.680 using this corruption to tell the American people, watch yourself, because we will do

00:25:52.240 this because we can.

00:25:53.740 We do not have to, you know, we don't do this for the rule of law.

00:25:57.100 We're not doing this for fun.

00:25:58.220 We're doing this to let you know we can do this.

00:26:00.200 It is an instrument, corruption itself is an instrument of power.

00:26:02.620 And it's so obvious.

00:26:04.120 And if, of course, we had an honest press, this would be surely the biggest scandal since

00:26:10.220 Watergate.

00:26:10.700 I mean, the cover up of this guy, this desiccated old man who has been corrupt since the beginning.

00:26:15.680 I mean, he's never been an honest guy that the corruption level of influence peddling

00:26:20.460 is just astounding.

00:26:22.560 Yeah.

00:26:22.740 And it's starting to come out.

00:26:23.980 And the more that comes out, the more he indicts Donald Trump.

00:26:27.740 He and his Democrat cronies.

00:26:29.220 I know he said he Joe Biden is so corrupt that Donald Trump is going to have to spend

00:26:33.820 all his money fighting indictments.

00:26:35.800 That's that's basically the place.

00:26:38.440 So we were talking about this.

00:26:39.380 That's what's really alarming for the Republicans right now, who I get it.

00:26:42.160 They love Trump and they want Trump.

00:26:43.800 But Trump is going to have to spend the vast majority of his time and his money over the

00:26:47.120 next 18 months fighting these incredible criminal threats to his freedom.

00:26:51.800 And, you know, and I understand that people want him to fight and they they don't mind if

00:26:56.260 their money goes to support some of that.

00:26:57.860 But every dollar spent on the Trump criminal trials is another dollar that's not spent,

00:27:02.180 you know, getting the get out the vote effort going for Republicans and making sure people

00:27:07.100 are registered and making sure the right advertisements are being made and submitted against Joe Biden

00:27:12.960 and the Democrats and so on.

00:27:14.240 Like it's it is going to be a cascade that distracts not just Trump, but all of his supporters

00:27:20.380 and the Republicans who will not be focused as much on the election, but on all of this.

00:27:24.860 And, you know, it may actually work on Trump to get him out of the race in the following

00:27:29.620 way.

00:27:30.280 If you've ever had a sick friend, you know, when people are sick, they become fascinated

00:27:33.540 by their own symptoms and they can't talk about anything else.

00:27:36.220 And that happens to people when they have legal problems, too.

00:27:38.760 And I'm hearing from people who go to some of Trump's rallies that he goes off on these

00:27:43.060 riffs about his legal problems and the audience starts to lose interest because they're not

00:27:47.160 there for Trump.

00:27:47.980 They're there for what Trump can do for them.

00:27:49.580 That's why the way we go to politicians.

00:27:51.260 We go to politicians for what they can do for us.

00:27:53.860 And Trump is becoming like the old comedian Lenny Bruce, who stopped doing comedy routines

00:27:58.560 and just started reading transcripts from his trials.

00:28:01.420 And that is happening to Trump already because Trump is a narcissist and he is mostly interested

00:28:06.160 in Donald Trump.

00:28:07.400 And I think that kind of all are, though, in his defense.

00:28:10.220 No, they are.

00:28:10.920 It's true.

00:28:11.400 But he's kind of so he's an extravagant guy in every way, in good ways and bad ways.

00:28:15.420 And so he's an extravagant narcissist.

00:28:17.620 The thing about it is that you're absolutely right about this.

00:28:19.980 Trump loses popularity when he pays attention to himself.

00:28:23.240 That's what happened during COVID when he would talk about the press being unfair to

00:28:26.660 him when people's grandmothers were dying alone in isolation.

00:28:30.640 So this is kind of having that effect on him.

00:28:33.800 If Trump had a little bit more elegance, maybe a little bit more commitment to the country,

00:28:38.800 he might step down.

00:28:39.900 And I don't I just don't think that's going to happen.

00:28:41.900 Now he can't.

00:28:43.220 Now he can't because he needs to win.

00:28:45.880 He needs to win and he needs to pull this DOJ off of those two federal investigations

00:28:49.920 and he'll just have to fight it out, you know, bare knuckled in New York and Georgia where

00:28:54.660 he's about to be indicted again, we believe.

00:28:56.580 I know.

00:28:57.200 So, I mean, if I were Trump, I wouldn't step aside right now.

00:29:00.180 I mean, my own personal hide is on the line because of my political past and I would make

00:29:04.740 sure that I protected it with my political future.

00:29:07.800 I mean, look, he could also have all this happen if a DeSantis win happens.

00:29:12.600 But if a Biden reelection happens, he is effed.

00:29:17.080 That's just the truth of it.

00:29:19.100 He's got to be a little scared about all this.

00:29:21.640 He's got to be.

00:29:22.920 And, you know, I think DeSantis, I think DeSantis could beat Joe Biden in his sleep.

00:29:28.300 I think that Joe Biden doesn't have a chance against any really competent and youthful and

00:29:33.580 energetic opponent.

00:29:35.040 Really, it's not that Donald Trump can't win.

00:29:38.600 It's that he's the only person who really has a big chance of losing.

00:29:43.200 And that's, you know, I'm not saying he can't win.

00:29:44.720 He's an amazing guy.

00:29:45.900 But like, you know, my own feeling about this, and I have no personal animus toward Donald

00:29:51.320 Trump whatsoever.

00:29:52.160 Like I said, I voted for him twice.

00:29:53.660 I feel the guy was a godsend.

00:29:55.380 I feel he turned the Republican Party around.

00:29:57.560 He opened up the path to a real American future.

00:30:00.140 Nobody else could have done it.

00:30:01.240 Nobody else had the force of personality and the force of will.

00:30:03.520 He's just not enough of a political operative to take us down the path that he opened up.

00:30:09.980 And, you know, again, I hate to throw a guy under the bus, but after all, the president

00:30:15.240 is there for the country.

00:30:17.100 He's not there for himself.

00:30:18.260 And so as much as I feel for Donald Trump and as offended as I am by how he's being treated

00:30:22.620 and how he's always been treated from the very beginning of his political career, I really

00:30:26.760 do think it's time for new blood and a new path, a new vision to take us down the path

00:30:33.460 that Donald Trump opened up.

00:30:34.880 And I wish he saw it that way, but obviously he never will.

00:30:37.700 Well, it's also, you know, his connection with the working class and his willingness to stand

00:30:42.620 up for them and to understand their problems is another reason he's so beloved, you know,

00:30:47.780 at a time when nobody else was doing that, especially the Republican Party, when he's

00:30:50.840 completely bent the Republican Party to his will on that.

00:30:54.380 And that's a good thing.

00:30:55.280 You know, they were completely being ignored.

00:30:57.260 That's one of the reasons why they love him and his numbers are so high, but they're high

00:31:01.240 with everybody now.

00:31:02.000 They're not just high with the working class.

00:31:03.240 They're high with, you know, college educated and non-college educated men and women.

00:31:07.860 He's made amazing inroads with Hispanics now who are just about equally divided.

00:31:12.480 Dems versus Republicans.

00:31:13.820 That was never the case before.

00:31:15.640 Even getting some of the black vote now and black support for Joe Biden is flat.

00:31:20.340 That was one of the things that we saw in The New York Times poll.

00:31:22.800 They're not into Joe Biden either.

00:31:24.060 It doesn't matter what James Clyde Bourne says that they see that he's not exciting and they

00:31:28.180 see what's happening in their wallets and they're not feeling it.

00:31:30.800 All of this stuff is swirling in the atmosphere right now.

00:31:35.440 And the Democrats know it.

00:31:38.140 They know it.

00:31:39.040 And so it's the Chinese curse.

00:31:41.000 They're trying to kneecap the guy.

00:31:42.860 All right.

00:31:43.020 Wait, stand by, Andrew, because we're going to squeeze in a quick break and we'll come

00:31:46.620 back.

00:31:46.920 And there's a few things we need to get to on the crime front that you mentioned and

00:31:50.480 on the Bud Light front.

00:31:51.940 Unbelievable development today.

00:31:53.180 Stand by.

00:31:53.520 So, Andrew, Trump just sending out a message on his social media.

00:32:00.660 I need one more indictment to ensure my election.

00:32:06.660 He's not wrong.

00:32:08.260 The funniest president since Lincoln.

00:32:10.780 Trump is the funniest president.

00:32:11.660 Definitely.

00:32:11.800 That's one of the reasons why people love him.

00:32:13.260 It's like they want to be entertained a bit.

00:32:14.740 And, you know, they're sick of like, you know, boring, stiff, half their presidents like

00:32:19.520 Biden.

00:32:20.320 And then he then he tweets out the following.

00:32:21.720 No, truth's out, whatever truth, social.

00:32:23.960 I am now going to Washington, D.C., where he's going to be arraigned, you know, in hours

00:32:27.740 to be arrested for having challenged a corrupt, rigged and stolen election.

00:32:32.660 It is a great honor because I am being arrested for you.

00:32:35.960 Make America great again.

00:32:37.380 You know, what's interesting about this is there was just a poll released by CNN today

00:32:41.340 that shows 69 percent, 69 percent of Republicans and Republican leaners say Joe Biden's win

00:32:48.640 was not legitimate.

00:32:49.500 I mean, the vast majority of Republicans do not believe that Joe Biden is a legitimate

00:32:56.400 president, that his win was legitimate.

00:32:59.360 And so it's they're not going to get upset about January 6th.

00:33:04.740 They're they understand why Trump protested and was mad and did the things he did.

00:33:10.280 I know that that's not the way the Democrats feel.

00:33:12.740 I know it's not the way the left leaning independents feel, but the polls also reflect there's almost

00:33:18.700 zero upset on the GOP side about any of the things Trump has been accused of in connection

00:33:24.880 with any of these three indictments and that none of the Republicans, maybe like two of

00:33:29.500 them.

00:33:29.800 Mike Pence is one.

00:33:30.980 Think he actually committed a crime.

00:33:33.220 They're just not bothered by anything involving Trump.

00:33:36.160 And that explains his just steadfast support in the polls.

00:33:41.620 Now, listen to this.

00:33:42.760 A little twist here.

00:33:44.020 But when asked, who do you have more confidence in when it when it comes to dealing with the

00:33:51.700 major issues facing the country, President Biden or House Republicans, Republicans in

00:33:57.380 Congress, the GOP is winning 54 to 45.

00:34:00.580 Now, that's a pretty substantial margin.

00:34:03.740 It's not surprising.

00:34:04.400 I thought I'd be more evenly divided straight along party lines, but no, they've got to have

00:34:08.660 the independents in there.

00:34:10.560 Shockingly, Kevin McCarthy is doing an excellent job and Comer is doing a good job and Jordan

00:34:15.040 is doing a good job and they're actually making their case and they're doing it cautiously.

00:34:18.700 They're not overstepping the line.

00:34:20.380 They're not bloviating and exaggerating.

00:34:23.480 And, you know, the other poll, by the way, showed that 65 percent of Americans, not just Republicans,

00:34:28.360 believe that January 6th was instigated by federal agents.

00:34:32.380 So I'm not sure I'm not sure how powerful the February the January 6th narrative is.

00:34:38.620 I have for a long time felt, look, I don't feel people should go charging into the Capitol.

00:34:43.720 I think that was a bad thing.

00:34:45.280 But it has been the Reichstag fire.

00:34:47.180 You know, it's been like this thing that has been blown up.

00:34:49.140 You know, the Reichstag fire was a real thing when socialists burned the Reichstag in Germany.

00:34:53.660 But Hitler turned it into this cause celeb and used it to destroy people's freedom.

00:34:57.780 I'm not calling the Democrats Hitlers.

00:34:59.520 I'm just saying they're acting in exactly the same way.

00:35:01.660 They have basically said this is the worst thing that's ever happened since the Civil War.

00:35:05.660 And no, it wasn't.

00:35:06.380 It was, you know, a dumb, it was a stupid thing to do.

00:35:09.120 But if, in fact, it was instigated by federal agents, which does seem to me fairly likely,

00:35:14.400 and if, in fact, you know, the election doesn't have to have been stolen to be rigged.

00:35:19.280 It was rigged beyond a shadow of a doubt.

00:35:20.980 You know, just shutting down the Hunter Biden laptop story was rigging the election.

00:35:26.180 Changing the rules against the state's constitutions was rigging the election.

00:35:31.280 It's a shame that Trump didn't have the lawyers to fight that while it was happening.

00:35:35.640 But still, still, he's not to blame for the malfeasance of the left.

00:35:39.460 And it was egregious.

00:35:41.360 It was gross what they did.

00:35:42.960 And so the idea that the election was stolen by, you know, Venusians messing with the voting machines,

00:35:51.240 that may be absurd.

00:35:52.680 But the idea that it was rigged from the start and that the way Trump was treated by the media

00:35:56.800 was part of that rigging, all of it, the Russian collusion, the indictment over the impeachment

00:36:02.420 over Ukraine, which we now see Trump was completely on the right.

00:36:05.940 And this latest indictment, he's basically being indicted for saying stuff.

00:36:09.760 That is what he's being indicted for.

00:36:11.200 And the prosecutor virtually said that.

00:36:14.460 He said these things and it wasn't true.

00:36:16.120 If you indicted politicians for saying things that weren't true, they'd all be in prison,

00:36:19.520 which might be an improvement.

00:36:20.800 But still, it would be total.

00:36:22.300 There's a there's a line in the indictment in which Jack Smith is is accusing Trump of

00:36:26.460 committing a crime because he, quote, gave false hope to the protesters who are demonstrating

00:36:33.520 on January 6th.

00:36:34.640 That's not a crime, Jack.

00:36:36.300 Sorry to break it to you, but that's not a crime.

00:36:38.580 It's absolutely absurd.

00:36:39.580 All right, let's move on, because there are a couple other things.

00:36:41.500 You mentioned Bud Light earlier, and I am with you on that whole thing, and I'm enjoying

00:36:44.940 watching them suffer.

00:36:45.880 I'm not going to lie.

00:36:47.720 Now we've heard we we knew anecdotally that the sales were down.

00:36:51.100 You know, we'd been hearing about distributors struggling and, you know, bar owners saying

00:36:55.480 they can't sell it.

00:36:56.320 And then we'd heard, oh, it's down 23 percent.

00:36:58.680 It's down 28 percent this quarter.

00:37:00.320 Just the month ending July 15th, the Bud Light sales were down 26.5 percent.

00:37:06.640 Turns out from April to June, the second quarter, they lost almost four hundred million dollars

00:37:13.460 in sales, three hundred and ninety million dollars.

00:37:17.740 And Anheuser-Busch correctly said it was because of Bud Light, that they blamed the volume decline

00:37:22.680 in Bud Light, you know, people saying it's it's done and it's not coming back, that these

00:37:27.460 bartenders and people who deal in the liquor industry saying it's over.

00:37:30.760 It's not rehabilitatable.

00:37:32.180 And yet, look at this, Joe Rogan on the wrong side on this one, popping open a Bud Light,

00:37:40.720 dismissing the whole controversy.

00:37:42.500 This is the second time he's done this.

00:37:44.040 Watch this.

00:37:45.920 And we're drinking Bud Light, ladies and gentlemen.

00:37:47.600 Sorry, guys.

00:37:48.500 Sorry.

00:37:49.460 We're fucked.

00:37:50.000 There's nothing wrong with it.

00:37:51.440 Mm hmm.

00:37:52.320 People are so cheer, sir.

00:37:53.780 Cheers, brother.

00:37:54.320 People are so silly.

00:37:55.260 We were just talking about how silly it is.

00:37:56.820 One person made a really stupid decision.

00:37:59.600 Now everybody's decided that Bud Light is the enemy.

00:38:02.180 Not getting it.

00:38:04.840 Totally wrong.

00:38:05.460 He's totally wrong.

00:38:06.280 Go ahead.

00:38:06.840 This is, as I said before, this is one of the cracks in the ice I'm seeing in the culture.

00:38:11.620 The fact that the right has, you know the right, the conservatives, they're like wrangling

00:38:14.740 cats.

00:38:15.380 Everyone has a different philosophy.

00:38:16.780 Everyone has a different leader.

00:38:18.120 They never get together on anything and they never take action because they are natural

00:38:22.280 pessimists.

00:38:22.980 So they always think it's over.

00:38:24.120 The country's finished.

00:38:24.860 There's no coming back.

00:38:25.920 Just give me my Bud Light and shut up.

00:38:28.000 No.

00:38:28.400 This time they spotted this.

00:38:30.100 They've spotted this transgender movement as an attack on femininity, an attack on femaleness,

00:38:33.980 which is exactly what it is.

00:38:35.380 It's an attempt to destroy the very existence of women.

00:38:39.180 The very fact that women are a thing and men and women are different.

00:38:42.580 And there are, in fact, no people.

00:38:43.980 There are only men and women.

00:38:45.060 There are only two kinds of people.

00:38:46.800 They spotted it and they spotted it on their beer.

00:38:50.620 This is the beer of the working class guy.

00:38:53.300 This is a beer, you know, that you kick back.

00:38:55.080 When you kick back and have a beer, it used to be a Bud Light.

00:38:56.780 It was the number one beer in America.

00:38:58.080 It's now not even in the top 10.

00:39:00.280 It's important.

00:39:01.260 These little signs, and they are little signs, but they're important of a shift in perception

00:39:05.580 on the right.

00:39:07.020 This movie, The Sound of Freedom, which just made over $100 million and was not distributed

00:39:12.920 by Hollywood.

00:39:13.660 It was distributed in a new system.

00:39:16.340 That's a major sign that shows that people are willing to turn up for good entertainment

00:39:21.020 that doesn't tow the party line.

00:39:22.920 And the fact that it maneuvered the left, the Guardian and Rolling Stone and all these

00:39:27.800 left-wing papers are defending child molesting and child sex slavery.

00:39:32.240 It's an amazing, amazing thing.

00:39:34.320 They are being called out into the light.

00:39:36.080 Listen, the other side of this, I started out, when we started out talking, I started

00:39:39.300 out talking about when corruption becomes blatant because it becomes an instrument of power.

00:39:43.460 The opposite side of that is we still live in a country where people have political power

00:39:48.020 and they can strike, and economic power, and they can strike back.

00:39:51.640 And so when these arrogant corruptoes come out, basically saying to the people, just

00:39:56.840 keep your mouth shut because we can do this stuff whether it's constitutional or not, the

00:40:00.440 people have a tendency to strike back and say, oh yeah, hit the road, Jack.

00:40:04.100 And that has happened a number of times in this country.

00:40:06.540 The country is not gone yet, and it can happen again.

00:40:09.220 And I think, I'm really hoping it will happen again.

00:40:11.320 And if I seem like I've been hard on Donald Trump, it's because I love this country.

00:40:15.960 I want it to go forward, and I'm worried about him.

00:40:17.980 I'm worried about him as a political instrument.

00:40:19.740 But perhaps he's fooled us before, he can fool us again, and I hope he does.

00:40:23.780 You know, I just think that this is the moment to strike back because the people are awake.

00:40:28.000 The people are awake.

00:40:28.800 And it's not just right-wingers.

00:40:30.140 It's also people who are kind of, you know, in the middle or middle-left.

00:40:33.200 I hear it.

00:40:33.960 I talk to those people.

00:40:35.260 They're saying, yeah, this has gone too far.

00:40:37.320 This is not true.

00:40:38.160 I don't want my kids taught this stuff.

00:40:40.200 It's a big change, and it really is happening.

00:40:42.280 But it's got to be nailed down politically as well as culturally.

00:40:45.960 Mm-hmm.

00:40:46.860 It's, you know, if Bud Light actually were sorry about it's one person sending one beer

00:40:52.900 can to Dylan Mulvaney, we would have heard that.

00:40:55.480 That's not what we've heard.

00:40:56.700 The guy has never apologized.

00:40:58.280 He's never owned up to it.

00:40:59.460 The CEO of Anheuser-Busch, the CEO, he's not sorry at all.

00:41:02.800 He's only sorry that it turned into a controversy for him.

00:41:05.520 He doesn't get it, and it's too late to save his brand.

00:41:08.060 And most of us wouldn't be caught dead having a Bud Light now for very good reason.

00:41:11.860 It endorses a whole set of values that we do not support.

00:41:15.520 Notwithstanding what Neil deGrasse Tyson was saying on Twitter this week, I've got to play

00:41:22.060 the soundbite.

00:41:23.040 He's lost his mind.

00:41:24.780 Here he is.

00:41:25.300 Apparently, the XXXY chromosomes are insufficient because when we wake up in the morning, we

00:41:37.000 exaggerate whatever feature we want to portray the gender of our choice.

00:41:45.660 Either the one you're assigned, the one you choose to be, whatever it is.

00:41:51.380 Suppose no matter my chromosomes, today I feel 80% female, 20% male.

00:41:57.380 I'm going to put on makeup.

00:41:59.080 I'm going to do that.

00:41:59.960 Tomorrow, I might feel 80% male.

00:42:02.280 I'll remove the makeup, and I'll wear a muscle shirt.

00:42:06.180 Why do you care?

00:42:08.160 Yeah.

00:42:09.100 What business is it of yours?

00:42:12.300 I got dollars to donuts.

00:42:15.140 He's cross-dressing at night.

00:42:18.340 That's a little too defensive of this.

00:42:20.500 This line, why do you care?

00:42:22.300 It is exactly the cry of people who have been caught.

00:42:26.300 They have been fighting this culture war alone, and they've been invading and invading and

00:42:30.160 invading.

00:42:30.540 We're doing nothing.

00:42:31.140 We sit around going, ah, it's just Bud Light.

00:42:32.940 I'm not going to boycott Bud Light.

00:42:34.080 Ah, it's just a movie.

00:42:34.980 Ah, it's just a guy who wants to dress up as a woman.

00:42:37.360 Now we're awake, and now it's why do you care so much?

00:42:39.900 Why do you care so much?

00:42:40.760 I'm not the guy knocking people off YouTube for saying men can't become women.

00:42:44.900 I'm not the guy who cancels people and fires people and won't treat one patient who couldn't

00:42:49.960 be treated for cancer because they will not admit that men can become women because they

00:42:54.500 can't.

00:42:55.080 They're the ones who care.

00:42:56.240 They're the ones who want to push this down our throats, and when we fight back, it's

00:42:59.300 suddenly why do we care?

00:43:00.220 Listen, Richard Dawkins, a man I strongly disagree with on the subject of God, but is no doubt

00:43:05.360 a good scientist, he said really interesting things on my friend's Triggernometry podcast.

00:43:11.340 I saw that.

00:43:11.900 He said, yeah, he said, you know, one of the problems with the human mind is it's too often

00:43:17.060 binary, and I completely agree with that.

00:43:19.200 It doesn't have nuance.

00:43:20.200 It thinks there's black and white.

00:43:21.200 It thinks there's only right and wrong instead of all these gray areas.

00:43:23.660 But Dawkins went on to say the one area where the binary function is complete is in genetics,

00:43:32.120 is in our sex lives.

00:43:34.120 Men are men.

00:43:34.960 Women are women.

00:43:35.840 We make generalities about them.

00:43:37.540 There are obviously exceptions about them, but they wouldn't even be saying, these people

00:43:40.980 wouldn't even be saying my gender is different if there weren't identifiable female traits.

00:43:45.860 When you say a trait is female, the only reason you're saying that is because it shows up a

00:43:50.720 lot more often in women.

00:43:51.820 That's the reason you're saying it.

00:43:53.120 So it makes no sense to then say, oh, well, if I feel this thing that often shows up in

00:43:57.220 women, I'm suddenly become a woman.

00:43:58.900 It is completely nonsense.

00:44:00.220 I just finished this interesting book called From Transgenderism to Transhumanism by a transgender

00:44:05.200 person.

00:44:06.260 And it's really, it's a stupid book, but it's a really interesting book because the thesis

00:44:09.980 of the book is that each person is so completely unique that you can't identify them at all.

00:44:16.900 And therefore, we actually don't even have any kind of identity except our own identity.

00:44:21.360 If that were true, you know, we couldn't make generalities.

00:44:24.520 We couldn't think.

00:44:25.240 We couldn't reason.

00:44:26.380 This idea of, this is the idea of liberty turned into an idol.

00:44:29.700 You know, this is how, this is how democracies fall.

00:44:32.360 This is what Plato said, basically.

00:44:33.940 They take the freedom and the freedom itself becomes an idol instead of the moral atmosphere

00:44:39.740 in which freedom thrives.

00:44:40.940 It's crazy.

00:44:42.880 And you can only hope the common sense of the American people, which does vanish from

00:44:46.220 time to time, it does disappear in fads and crazes and things like that.

00:44:49.760 You can only hope the moral sense of the American people will return as it has so often in the

00:44:53.840 past.

00:44:54.500 I do see it, Megan.

00:44:55.620 I do see it happening.

00:44:56.620 And I think it's a very, very hopeful change in the midst of the darkness of our government's

00:45:02.200 corruption.

00:45:02.720 I mean, maybe it's a weird thing to say, but I was heartened by that video out of Stockton,

00:45:05.800 California, we believe is out of Stockton, where the 7-Eleven guys are getting robbed

00:45:09.840 and they wind up beating the hell out of the guy.

00:45:12.900 Here it is.

00:45:13.340 I mean, if this had happened like a month after George Floyd, the 7-Eleven workers would have

00:45:17.840 been arrested.

00:45:18.860 Now, the entire internet is on their side.

00:45:21.140 Here's what happened.

00:45:23.620 God damn.

00:45:24.920 Ain't nothing you can do that.

00:45:26.520 Ain't nothing you can do that.

00:45:27.500 Ain't nothing you can do that.

00:45:29.520 Ain't nothing you can do that.

00:45:30.420 This guy's pulling all his cigarettes off the shelf.

00:45:34.000 He's robbing him.

00:45:34.640 Ain't nothing you can do, man.

00:45:37.320 Don't do that.

00:45:37.700 He's killing his shopping cart.

00:45:38.320 Don't do that, man.

00:45:39.280 Don't do that.

00:45:43.980 And here comes the beat down.

00:45:46.640 Oh, it hurts, doesn't it?

00:45:48.380 No one feels bad for you.

00:45:54.160 Oh, come on.

00:45:58.880 He was fine, by the way, Andrew.

00:46:00.640 But when it was done, he was like, hey, can I get a soda?

00:46:03.060 And the 7-Eleven workers are like, are you insane?

00:46:06.300 And the guys who were beating were Muslims, weren't they?

00:46:09.900 Yeah, they were Sikhs.

00:46:11.800 No, they were Sikhs.

00:46:13.040 Okay, that is different.

00:46:14.460 But I think it is interesting that religious people are the people who are sort of looking

00:46:18.600 at one another and saying, maybe it's all of us together against them.

00:46:21.540 Because I think that is what we're dealing with.

00:46:24.220 I love that guy.

00:46:25.040 Yeah.

00:46:25.220 At least he'll loot a can of whoop-ass on that thief.

00:46:29.400 And, you know, we all know that that's the way you treat people.

00:46:32.760 I mean, that is the way you treat.

00:46:33.800 I mean, we have watched in California, while people have looted, actual looting, which

00:46:39.300 you usually get shot for, while people just stand by and look.

00:46:43.060 And they come in and they sweep stuff off the counters and they walk out and no one's

00:46:47.340 allowed to do anything about it.

00:46:48.320 The cops don't call when you come.

00:46:50.400 Everybody in California, all my friends in California tell me this.

00:46:52.700 You call the police and they say, we're not coming.

00:46:54.120 We can't do anything about it.

00:46:55.580 So, yeah, eventually people will fight back.

00:46:58.120 And I do see that happening.

00:46:59.980 Well, the promising thing, too, is that even even the NAACP just wrote a letter in Oakland

00:47:08.320 saying this is B.S.

00:47:10.960 We need cops.

00:47:12.220 We're against defund the police.

00:47:14.300 We need tough on crime prosecutors.

00:47:16.400 And guess what?

00:47:16.820 They're here today to tell us all about that letter they wrote.

00:47:19.100 So that's exciting.

00:47:19.680 They're coming up a little later in the show.

00:47:21.380 Andrew Klavan, what a pleasure.

00:47:22.520 Great to see you.

00:47:24.060 Great to see you, Megan.

00:47:24.780 Thanks for having me.

00:47:25.980 All right.

00:47:26.260 Look forward to the next time.

00:47:27.120 Don't forget, folks, you can watch The Megyn Kelly Show live on Sirius XM Triumph Channel

00:47:32.560 111.

00:47:33.520 Listen, every weekday at noonies, you can watch the full video show and clips by subscribing

00:47:37.720 to our YouTube channel.

00:47:39.260 That's YouTube dot com slash Megyn Kelly.

00:47:41.680 And if you prefer an audio podcast, you can follow and download wherever you get your podcasts

00:47:46.100 for free.

00:47:51.300 Former President Donald Trump is expected in federal court in Washington, D.C.

00:47:55.900 late this afternoon, 4 p.m.

00:47:57.600 to be specific for his arraignment following his third criminal indictment this year.

00:48:02.380 For those of you keeping track, the first one was in New York state court.

00:48:06.580 The second one involved the Mar-a-Lago documents and was brought down in Florida federal court.

00:48:12.840 And this is the third related to January 6th, brought in a federal court in Washington, D.C.

00:48:18.080 the fourth still expected out of Georgia.

00:48:20.620 That would be a state court proceeding as well.

00:48:22.960 Here with reaction is Alan Dershowitz, Professor Emeritus at Harvard Law School and the author

00:48:28.640 of the book Get Trump, which I think they're using as a guide to where they should bring

00:48:36.960 the next indictment.

00:48:38.160 But they should have read it all the way through to the end, Alan, because it's not going to

00:48:42.100 end well for them.

00:48:42.840 Or so you say.

00:48:43.540 So what's your reaction to this latest indictment?

00:48:46.680 Well, I think there's a principle that every American should subscribe to when an attorney

00:48:52.940 general of the United States who was appointed by the incumbent president and serves at his

00:48:57.560 pleasure approves an indictment against the man running against his boss, against the president

00:49:03.500 and is the leading candidate tied in the polls, 44 to 44.

00:49:07.660 When that happens, the case ought to be ironclad.

00:49:12.660 It ought to be so clear that people on both sides of the aisle, independents, will all, all

00:49:19.700 approve it, as they did the Nixon impeachment if he hadn't resigned and prosecution if Ford

00:49:26.260 hadn't pardoned him.

00:49:27.760 This case doesn't come close to meeting that standard.

00:49:31.440 It's a stretch of the law.

00:49:33.340 It's based on facts that apparently don't exist.

00:49:37.720 They're going to have to prove that Trump told somebody that he actually knew he lost

00:49:43.300 the election and believed that it was a fair election.

00:49:46.220 That didn't happen.

00:49:48.440 And so it just doesn't meet the standard that ought to be set when you try to prevent the

00:49:55.160 man who's running against the incumbent president from mounting a legitimate campaign.

00:50:00.320 That's what happens in Banana Republics.

00:50:02.160 We're not a banana republic.

00:50:03.440 But this was a step, a step in the wrong direction.

00:50:08.460 So how does that manifest in the case as a legal matter?

00:50:12.060 So, you know, if you were if you were representing Trump in this, what's the first thing you would

00:50:15.780 do?

00:50:16.720 First thing is I moved for a change of venue out of the single district in the United

00:50:21.860 States that has the most anti-Trump voters.

00:50:25.600 That's number one.

00:50:26.320 Number two, I moved for the recusal of the judge who worked for a law firm that has had

00:50:32.120 a history of corruption and conflicts of interest.

00:50:35.680 And she herself was in the law firm when it represented Hunter Biden in Burisma.

00:50:41.040 So those are the first things I do.

00:50:42.780 Then I moved for a dismissal of aspects of the indictment that clearly impinge on both the

00:50:48.160 First Amendment and the Sixth Amendment.

00:50:50.660 This is a very defensible case, but it has to be defended in front of a jury of Trump's

00:50:56.760 peers, not a jury in which 90 something percent of the jury veneer probably voted against him

00:51:02.280 and very, very, very few support him.

00:51:05.800 So it's going to be up till in the trial court if it stays in the District of Columbia.

00:51:09.860 But then there's an appellate court and then there's ultimately the Supreme Court.

00:51:14.500 The biggest case that's going to help him, interestingly enough, is New York Times versus

00:51:19.720 Sullivan.

00:51:20.260 New York Times versus Sullivan, I was a law clerk when that case was decided, basically

00:51:25.020 says the First Amendment protects lies, mistakes, errors.

00:51:29.960 You have to show that there was actual malice.

00:51:34.940 The New York Times printed an ad which was mistaken.

00:51:38.320 And many, many people have been defamed.

00:51:44.280 And yet the courts have said, no, you have to prove actual malice.

00:51:48.940 And if you have to do that in a civil case, in a criminal case where it's proof beyond a

00:51:54.960 reasonable doubt, the prosecution is going to have to prove that Trump had this Hamlet moment

00:52:01.380 to be or not to be.

00:52:02.980 I am now stepping over the line and becoming a fraud.

00:52:06.620 But I'm now saying that I believe the election was stolen when I know full well that it was

00:52:12.980 a fair and valid election.

00:52:14.840 They're not going to be able to prove that.

00:52:18.040 I want to play you a Bill Barr soundbite on free speech in one second.

00:52:21.340 But the odds of Trump taking the stand in any of these cases are very slim.

00:52:25.440 So how do they get to state of mind?

00:52:27.240 In this case, the prosecutor, Jack Smith, will put on evidence in the indictment.

00:52:32.040 He lists all the people who told Trump you lost.

00:52:34.660 We haven't been able to find any meaningful evidence of voter fraud.

00:52:37.620 You lost, you lost, you lost.

00:52:38.960 And Trump's defense seems to be a there's it's multifold.

00:52:42.440 But one of them is I didn't believe you.

00:52:44.560 I believed my lawyers.

00:52:45.520 I believe Sidney Powell.

00:52:46.460 I believe Rudy Giuliani.

00:52:47.600 I believe all these other people who said, actually, we're seeing real evidence of fraud

00:52:50.860 and we don't trust the system and everybody's out to get you.

00:52:54.040 You can't trust those guys.

00:52:55.000 They're deep state.

00:52:55.840 But Trump's probably not going to take this stand.

00:52:57.480 So how does he get that in?

00:52:58.780 That's a very good question.

00:53:00.820 If I were the defense, I would stipulate to the fact that he was told by many people

00:53:06.840 that he had lost the election, including his own son-in-law.

00:53:10.940 But then I would put on witness after witness after witness, starting with Jared Kushner,

00:53:15.820 but going to many, many people who interviewed him and who will testify that he said over

00:53:23.600 and over and over again, that despite the overwhelming evidence that he was wrong and he was wrong,

00:53:28.600 I don't agree with him.

00:53:30.040 He was wrong.

00:53:31.320 He actually believed that he was correct.

00:53:34.420 He actually believed the election was stolen.

00:53:36.780 And I've spoken to a lot of people who have interviewed him and who know him well.

00:53:40.500 I'm not one of them.

00:53:41.340 I just only met him a few times.

00:53:43.380 I did defend him, obviously, against the first impeachment.

00:53:46.280 But I'm not somebody who has given him legal advice beyond that.

00:53:50.260 But people who have and people who have interviewed him all say he really believes this.

00:53:55.920 Now, you know, some people call it the naivete or self-serving defense.

00:54:01.820 He talked himself into it.

00:54:03.700 He persuaded himself that he actually won the election.

00:54:07.220 But that doesn't really matter.

00:54:08.880 As a question of law, the real issue in the case is going to be the instruction the judge

00:54:14.040 gives.

00:54:14.460 And we'll get to the judge in a minute because she is the worst possible judge to be sitting

00:54:18.280 on this case when you need to have not only the reality of justice, but the appearance

00:54:22.400 of justice.

00:54:23.480 But if I'm the defense, I ask for an instruction that says, Lady and gentlemen of the jury,

00:54:27.120 you must conclude beyond a reasonable doubt that Donald Trump himself actually believed

00:54:31.780 that he had lost the election and he was intentionally defrauding the public.

00:54:36.920 The government will say, no, no, no.

00:54:38.320 We need an instruction that says he should have believed.

00:54:40.780 The reasonable person would have believed.

00:54:42.500 And that's going to be the key on appeal as well.

00:54:46.220 When a case gets to the Court of Appeals and the Supreme Court, which instruction is

00:54:50.300 the proper one.

00:54:51.500 And the Supreme Court has been moving more and more toward requiring individual specific

00:54:57.080 knowledge of the wrongness, not the reasonable person test in the context of a criminal case.

00:55:04.160 Good.

00:55:04.240 The Supreme Court siding on with the First Amendment and a wide, wide berth for people to say

00:55:07.880 wrong things or things that they know are not true.

00:55:10.080 So it's not a nice thing to do, but it may change your opinion of the person, but it doesn't

00:55:14.160 make you a criminal.

00:55:15.060 It's a reason yesterday with Andy McCarthy, where I was saying if you were to bring a defamation

00:55:20.260 case against somebody saying they said something false about you, you'd have to prove that they

00:55:24.860 knew it was false or that they recklessly disregarded the truth.

00:55:29.400 And we were debating, like, do we think the reckless disregard of the truth standard could

00:55:34.320 could be used against Trump?

00:55:35.760 And I think both of us edged on probably not not in a criminal case.

00:55:39.220 That's that's not going to be enough.

00:55:41.620 I wish I had been on that conversation.

00:55:43.600 I agree with you.

00:55:45.200 Probably not enough.

00:55:46.640 It wouldn't surprise me if the court did say the same standard applies.

00:55:50.480 Remember that this standard is now being challenged, including by me.

00:55:53.940 You may remember that I'm suing CNN because they doctored a tape.

00:55:58.800 They had me say exactly the opposite of what I said.

00:56:01.080 And the judge found that I had been defamed.

00:56:03.760 The judge found that they knew that I hadn't said that.

00:56:07.060 I had said nothing of the sort, but the judge said, well, malice, you have to prove that

00:56:12.300 by clear and convincing evidence.

00:56:14.020 And he found that I hadn't proved it by clear and convincing evidence.

00:56:17.440 That case is now on appeal.

00:56:18.960 And we are also challenging the notion that the plaintiff, the man defamed or the woman

00:56:25.220 defamed, has to prove by clear and convincing evidence that the people knew it.

00:56:30.400 The judge in my case found that they were stupid.

00:56:32.420 They were ridiculous.

00:56:34.160 They should have known they were irresponsible, but he couldn't get over that line of they

00:56:40.480 actually knew.

00:56:41.340 And that's the line that they're going to have to get over even more so in a criminal

00:56:46.680 case.

00:56:47.200 So I think you're having that in a civil case.

00:56:49.560 And this is criminal where his freedom's on the line.

00:56:52.360 Let me play what Bill Barr said on CNN.

00:56:54.380 Of course, this is Trump's former attorney general on the subject of free speech, which

00:56:58.040 has been what a lot of smart lawyers have said after reading this Jack Smith indictment.

00:57:01.860 He's he's trying to criminalize speech, Trump's speech about the election and challenging whether

00:57:06.480 he lost and so on.

00:57:07.760 Here's Bill Barr.

00:57:09.840 I think it's a legitimate case.

00:57:11.520 I've said before, I'm a little concerned about the slippery slope of criminalizing legitimate

00:57:17.500 political activity.

00:57:18.680 I'm also worried about bringing this case and the divisiveness that it will bring by highlighting

00:57:27.220 the double standard, because at the same time this case is being brought, you know,

00:57:31.260 the department appears to have dropped the ball on the Hunter Biden investigation.

00:57:35.440 But as a legal matter, I don't see a problem with the indictment.

00:57:40.120 As the indictment says, you know, they're not attacking his First Amendment right.

00:57:45.320 He can say whatever he wants.

00:57:46.940 He can even lie.

00:57:48.100 He can even tell people that that the the election was was stolen when he when he knew

00:57:55.280 better.

00:57:56.460 But that does not protect you from entering into a conspiracy.

00:58:01.540 All conspiracies involve speech and all fraud involves speech.

00:58:07.380 So, you know, free speech doesn't give you the right to engage in a fraudulent conspiracy.

00:58:14.580 What do you make of that?

00:58:15.540 Well, he's right.

00:58:16.640 I mean, he's right.

00:58:18.160 Barr is a smart guy and he's right.

00:58:19.940 Free speech is not a license to commit fraud.

00:58:23.060 But an element of fraud in the context of a criminal case is the specific knowledge that

00:58:28.380 you know what you're saying is wrong.

00:58:30.700 Look, to show you how broad and how the slippery slope, as Barr pointed out, can operate.

00:58:37.160 Let's look at the indictment itself.

00:58:38.780 Under the indictment itself.

00:58:39.980 This may sound like a stretch and I'm not suggesting it could happen, but it's just illustrative.

00:58:44.500 Under the indictment itself, Jack Smith could be himself indicted.

00:58:49.240 He told a direct lie in this indictment.

00:58:52.320 He purported to describe the speech that President Trump made on January 6th.

00:58:56.500 And he left out the key words when President Trump said, I want you to demonstrate peacefully and

00:59:03.620 patriotically.

00:59:04.720 You know, a lie by omission under the law can be as serious as a lie by commission.

00:59:11.140 So that's one point he could have been indicted under.

00:59:13.780 The next point is he was indicted.

00:59:16.120 Trump was indicted under this Ku Klux Klan statute, which obviously is inapplicable.

00:59:20.920 If two or more persons conspired to threaten the free exercise or enjoyment of any right

00:59:26.980 or privilege supported or secured by the Constitution, what if the Supreme Court ultimately holds that

00:59:33.240 Donald Trump had a complete First Amendment right to do everything and say everything he did?

00:59:37.500 Does that mean that Jack Smith is guilty because he threatened that right by having this indictment?

00:59:45.360 No, of course not.

00:59:46.360 But we don't want these kinds of open-ended, slippery-slope indictments that today are used

00:59:52.200 against Trump tomorrow.

00:59:54.080 They will be used by a Republican attorney general against Democrats, just the way some Republicans

00:59:59.400 today are trying improperly and unconstitutionally to impeach Joe Biden for acts that took place

01:00:05.740 well before he was president.

01:00:08.000 Both sides are willing to weaponize the justice system and the Constitution to their partisan

01:00:14.620 ends.

01:00:15.380 That's why it's so important that not only justice be done, but appear to be done.

01:00:19.580 And that's why this judge must recuse herself.

01:00:22.600 And this case must be moved out of the District of Columbia.

01:00:25.840 If he's convicted by this judge in the District of Columbia, the American people won't accept it.

01:00:31.740 Oh, of course, the partisans will.

01:00:33.180 But independents, people like me, people, I don't know, like you, people who lean one

01:00:39.160 way or the other but generally are independent and thoughtful, we won't accept the legitimacy

01:00:44.520 of a verdict rendered by a D.C. jury and this judge against a man who is so hated, both by

01:00:52.340 the district, by the jurors and arguably by the judge herself.

01:00:58.400 Well, Julie Kelly, who's been following the January 6th cases very closely, said yesterday that many

01:01:03.860 defendants have moved for a change of venue based on those very circumstances.

01:01:07.900 Obviously, they're very pro-Trump, the people who stormed the Capitol that day and saying,

01:01:12.140 I can't get a fair trial in front of a D.C. jury.

01:01:14.400 And in every single case, it's been denied.

01:01:16.660 I realize Trump is different.

01:01:18.360 That's a good argument for why it should be granted, because the judges are also very one

01:01:23.200 sided in the District of Columbia.

01:01:25.620 And it hasn't yet gotten to the Supreme Court and it will get to the Supreme Court.

01:01:31.640 And I think we'll see a different approach there.

01:01:35.120 Changes of venue are hard to get and recusals are hard to get.

01:01:38.660 But this is the case that demands it because he needs both.

01:01:43.760 He needs to get rid of this judge and he needs to get it out of D.C.

01:01:46.460 He's saying he wants it to go to be held in West Virginia.

01:01:49.700 That's right.

01:01:50.300 Or even Virginia.

01:01:51.680 Virginia is more of a purple state.

01:01:53.580 I recently had breakfast with the new governor of Virginia.

01:01:57.320 Very, very bright and very articulate.

01:02:00.020 Yeah.

01:02:00.280 But but but Alan, if he goes to West if he goes to Virginia, he's in federal court.

01:02:04.700 He's in the rocket docket.

01:02:05.540 And that's a quick, quick trial, which is the last thing he wants.

01:02:09.400 Well, that's in northern Virginia.

01:02:10.600 If he goes to southern Virginia, he might get a different situation.

01:02:14.440 But obviously, West Virginia would be better.

01:02:17.600 And the rocket docket creates the other problem.

01:02:21.480 One of the reasons you don't indict a man running for president unless the case is overwhelming

01:02:25.840 is it does constitute election interference.

01:02:28.540 It may not be intended to be election interference.

01:02:30.540 But when a guy is facing three, perhaps four indictments and has to be in court, remember,

01:02:35.600 in criminal cases, you have to be in court.

01:02:37.220 It's not like civil cases where you can waive that right.

01:02:40.720 He's going to be sitting in court twiddling his thumbs while his opponent is out there campaigning.

01:02:46.460 The first case is scheduled for May right after the primaries and before the convention.

01:02:50.360 This case would probably follow after that, and it could be in the summer during the height

01:02:56.580 of the campaign season.

01:02:58.160 That's just not right.

01:03:00.340 This case, these cases should be tried after the election.

01:03:03.740 And if he loses, which he probably will, even though he's tied 44 to 44, it's unlikely you

01:03:09.140 can get above the 46, 47 mark.

01:03:12.240 There's a lot of anti-Trump sentiment.

01:03:13.900 There's also a lot of anti-Biden sentiment.

01:03:15.640 Look, nobody is going to win the next election, but somebody is going to lose it.

01:03:18.860 Uh, there's not a lot of enthusiasm for either candidate and there has to be a winner and

01:03:23.200 a loser, but, uh, there should be no trials until this election takes place.

01:03:28.440 The ultimate jury in America for political sins is the voter, not the jury and not the

01:03:35.740 judge.

01:03:36.240 Jack Smith's not going to agree to any of that because this does smell political for him.

01:03:39.460 That's the reason he rushed it.

01:03:41.160 He wanted to get in front of the Georgia prosecutor, we believe, and make sure that he was in line

01:03:45.960 for a trial before she was.

01:03:47.600 And why did he send Trump the notice on a Sunday that he could come testify in front

01:03:51.660 of the jury in the next four days?

01:03:52.740 Like he's clearly got the pedal down because he does want a trial before the election, which

01:03:58.020 smacks of politics as well.

01:03:59.840 The guy is political.

01:04:00.960 He answers, of course, to Merrick Garland, who answers to Joe Biden and so on.

01:04:05.000 So like we, we all, we can see that it's, and I don't think this judge who clearly does

01:04:09.600 not like Trump is going to give him a change of venue to West Virginia, nor is she likely

01:04:14.320 to recuse herself.

01:04:15.360 So all of this winds up ultimately in the hands of the Supreme Court.

01:04:18.660 But when, like how you, this is how you became such a huge star.

01:04:23.120 You're appellate work.

01:04:24.120 So how soon can he get any of this in front of SCOTUS?

01:04:28.100 Well, what I would do is make a motion today, literally in front of the judge, even the

01:04:34.480 magistrate who is having the arraignment saying, no, you can't sit on this arraignment and

01:04:39.520 your judge can't sit.

01:04:41.280 She has to be recused.

01:04:42.700 And we have to take this case out of the district and try to get this case appealed as soon as

01:04:48.820 possible.

01:04:49.840 Interlocutory appeals are frowned upon and they are rarely granted.

01:04:53.320 But here you have a case where the election of a president of the United States may turn

01:04:58.480 on the timing.

01:04:59.600 And I think it's possible that appellate courts might say, yeah, we're going to take this

01:05:03.940 case now.

01:05:04.880 Wait, let me ask you, let me ask.

01:05:05.860 So you could do that immediately as soon as you get an oral denial of your change of venue

01:05:10.220 and change of judge motions.

01:05:11.820 But what you can try is the motion to dismiss the whole indictment because he hasn't failed

01:05:16.520 the state of claim.

01:05:17.420 And they haven't filed that yet.

01:05:19.060 That can't be challenged until after a conviction.

01:05:22.260 But there are some cases that say that dispositive motions regarding venue and recusal, under some

01:05:32.160 circumstances at least, maybe can be appealed in an interlocutory way.

01:05:38.300 Again, frowned on.

01:05:39.920 But this case is unique in American history.

01:05:42.660 You know, the only time anything like this has occurred was when in 19, in the 1920 election,

01:05:51.040 Eugene B.

01:05:51.740 Debs ran for president on the Socialist Party, got a couple of million votes from prison.

01:05:58.400 And that's not going to happen here.

01:06:01.120 But why did you say I read that you said you do not think that Trump is likely to actually

01:06:06.900 go to jail on any of these four cases that we're discussing?

01:06:10.640 I mean, I don't think I think these prosecutions are nonsense myself, but I can see a D.C.

01:06:16.780 jury convicting him.

01:06:18.900 I mean, I assume you're talking about on appeal.

01:06:20.660 But what about like Georgia?

01:06:22.160 What about Mar-a-Lago?

01:06:25.060 That's a more Trump friendly jury.

01:06:26.980 But if he were convicted on those Mar-a-Lago cases like that case and this case, at least

01:06:30.860 on the books, has 20 year sentences, 20 year sentences on each of the charges.

01:06:34.960 This case technically has a death sentence if somebody is injured in the course of interfering

01:06:41.560 with their right or somebody is killed and somebody was death resulting from the events

01:06:47.500 of January 6th.

01:06:48.540 That's not going to happen.

01:06:49.920 There won't be jail in New York.

01:06:51.740 There won't be jail in Florida.

01:06:53.140 Florida is a paper case.

01:06:55.260 You know, it's not the kind of case that people should and usually are in prison for.

01:07:00.100 And I don't think that would happen in Georgia as well.

01:07:03.780 The case where he could get prison time is if he's tried for this indictment, the January

01:07:09.600 6th indictment in front of a jury in D.C. and in front of this judge.

01:07:14.540 You know, I'm defending one of the January 6th, a young law student who was waved in by the

01:07:19.860 police.

01:07:20.280 We have the videotape of his being waved in.

01:07:23.700 And let me tell you the loud applause that you heard from the defense team when we found

01:07:28.880 out we were not in front of this judge, because this judge, who seems very sympathetic to

01:07:35.220 Black Lives Matter protesters, seemed utterly unsympathetic to anybody who was involved in

01:07:41.260 the in the Capitol demonstrations, riots.

01:07:45.420 So she has a reputation and reputation precedes her.

01:07:49.600 And her history with the Boyce-Shilla firm does not serve her well in the public mind.

01:07:54.340 I got the Boyce-Shilla firm qualified in the case.

01:07:57.600 And in another case, which we cited, the Federal District Court in New York said Boyce-Shiller

01:08:03.220 had a conflict that any first year student should have recognized.

01:08:06.440 And they have been accused of conflicts and corruption more than any other modern law firm

01:08:11.540 in history, at least according to my research and in my opinion.

01:08:15.500 So I can't imagine a worse judge in terms of the appearance of justice.

01:08:21.460 We want, if there's a conviction here, we want all Americans to say, wow, our system of

01:08:27.020 justice works.

01:08:28.100 He was convicted by a fair jury in front of a fair judge of a real crime.

01:08:34.520 That is not happening now.

01:08:36.480 A very large percentage of Americans will not accept a conviction rendered by a D.C. jury

01:08:44.120 and supervised by this judge brought by a D.A., a lawyer appointed by Merrick Garland.

01:08:53.540 It just is not going to happen.

01:08:56.100 That's the reality.

01:08:58.280 Last question.

01:08:58.720 We open the show today talking about Devin Archer and the transcript of his testimony has

01:09:02.500 now been released.

01:09:03.780 He's made very clear that he had a board meeting with Burisma.

01:09:08.000 Hunter Biden was there, too, in December of 2015, at which the head of Burisma said to

01:09:14.700 him, we need help from D.C. in getting these investigators off our backs.

01:09:19.660 And then we know that there that Joe Biden got the prosecutor fired three to four months

01:09:26.020 later in March of 16.

01:09:27.280 This dovetails with an unconfirmed FBI report.

01:09:33.160 The 1023 were a confidential informant alleged that the Bidens were each paid a five million

01:09:38.160 dollar bribe, something Devin Archer could not confirm for doing exactly that, for getting

01:09:43.200 shokin fired.

01:09:43.840 This this this is what Trump was asking about on that, quote, perfect phone call to the

01:09:51.000 Ukrainians, to Zelensky that turned into the first impeachment because the Democrats said

01:09:56.880 you threatened to withhold aid unless they did this investigation.

01:10:00.020 That was inappropriate.

01:10:00.900 Now it turns on turns out he was really onto something.

01:10:04.280 You can dispute whether it's going to come home in the end, but you can't dispute that

01:10:09.860 an investigation is necessary here.

01:10:11.720 So as the guy who was out there and who lost all his friends in Martha's Vineyard and all

01:10:16.080 that for defending Trump on the first impeachment, what's your take on the extraordinary Devin

01:10:21.160 Archer developments we've had this week?

01:10:23.000 Well, first of all, I'm having a wonderful time on Martha's Vineyard.

01:10:26.300 I have new friends, people who don't judge me for who I defend.

01:10:30.500 And I'm having a great time and my wife's still being picked on a little bit too much

01:10:35.240 by her old friends.

01:10:36.840 But the Devin Archer thing is is very important.

01:10:39.320 But remember, just because a person's a whistleblower doesn't mean they're telling the truth about

01:10:43.520 everything.

01:10:44.380 The presumption of innocent applies as much to Hunter Biden as it does to President Trump.

01:10:50.180 We have to challenge everything that was said, subjected to truth telling mechanisms, cross

01:10:55.480 examination, which hasn't occurred, looking into the backgrounds, seeing if there's contrary

01:11:01.320 evidence.

01:11:02.040 But if it turns out to be true, it's still not an impeachable offense because it happened

01:11:06.780 before he was president.

01:11:08.660 But it's a serious matter that should be looked into.

01:11:12.220 I predict.

01:11:12.600 I've heard you say that.

01:11:13.340 I've heard you say that.

01:11:14.160 Can I just ask you, though?

01:11:15.220 And I get it.

01:11:15.700 I get it.

01:11:16.040 You got to do it like you got to do the bad stuff while you're the sitting president.

01:11:19.240 By the way, he was cross examined.

01:11:20.400 I mean, the Democrats had their shot at him on Monday, too.

01:11:22.340 Um, yeah, but he but what if he was a sitting vice president when he did this stuff?

01:11:27.640 So it's a little unusual.

01:11:28.940 He came back to office at an even higher rank.

01:11:33.180 No, that's true.

01:11:34.260 Look, I was the only one who predicted that the judge would not accept this plea bargain

01:11:38.600 because we didn't know what the plea bargain entailed.

01:11:41.220 Now, I think the judge will accept the amended plea bargain.

01:11:45.200 And that's too bad because I do think this should be revisited.

01:11:48.840 We ought to see whether or not the the U.S.

01:11:52.940 attorney from Delaware had authority to go beyond Delaware to investigate Burisma, to

01:11:57.740 investigate Los Angeles, to investigate the District of Columbia.

01:12:01.180 We have some evidence that suggests he said he hadn't gotten that authority.

01:12:05.300 Then he said he did.

01:12:06.560 And Gorlin said he did.

01:12:08.540 If I'm the judge, I call the two of them in front of me and say, look, let's resolve this.

01:12:12.600 Let's not only know what you had authority to do and investigate, but what did you investigate?

01:12:17.340 Yes, you investigate Burisma.

01:12:19.600 And I don't think we're going to see that.

01:12:21.640 No, it's been very annoying because even in the statements that David Weiss, the U.S.

01:12:26.880 attorney for Delaware, has posted, he leaves those major questions unanswered like, well,

01:12:32.920 did you ask the California and the D.C.

01:12:36.040 U.S.

01:12:36.360 attorneys to bring these charges or didn't you?

01:12:38.440 He just wants to thread the needle on whether he had the authority without telling us whether

01:12:43.120 he really did ask.

01:12:44.320 The one amendment that I would make to what you said is you correctly pointed out that

01:12:48.940 Archer was cross-examined by Democrats.

01:12:52.420 That's not real cross-examination.

01:12:54.080 You and I are real lawyers.

01:12:55.680 We know how to cross-examine.

01:12:57.300 Senators, congressmen, they don't know how to cross-examine.

01:12:59.980 They just throw out questions.

01:13:01.980 Mostly they take their time just talking to themselves and talking about themselves.

01:13:05.660 I'm talking about real cross-examination of the kind that I could do what you could do

01:13:10.900 and dozens of other lawyers could do.

01:13:13.360 The adversary process doesn't exist in Congress.

01:13:17.220 And Devin Archer is not some above board guy.

01:13:20.400 He's already been convicted of trying to defraud some Native American tribes.

01:13:24.380 And now he's got an ax to grind against the Bidens.

01:13:27.840 However, his allegations certainly do dovetail against other independent evidence from people

01:13:32.680 who don't have an ax to grind.

01:13:33.840 And again, it's worth looking into robustly.

01:13:37.760 Alan Dershowitz, I'm so glad you're back from vacation.

01:13:40.140 Love the Dershow.

01:13:41.660 And you tell your wife to call me.

01:13:43.420 Yeah, we had like 200,000 people watching the Dershow last night.

01:13:47.680 I'm back.

01:13:48.540 It's great stuff.

01:13:49.180 People will continue to watch it.

01:13:50.900 Good.

01:13:51.180 Thank you.

01:13:51.660 I find it highly entertaining.

01:13:52.560 You always keep it clear.

01:13:53.400 It's like going.

01:13:54.360 If you didn't get to go to Harvard Law School, you get to go.

01:13:56.980 If you listen to the Dershow only with the best.

01:13:59.020 And I don't grade you.

01:13:59.940 I don't grade you.

01:14:00.760 There are no C's or B's.

01:14:03.420 Excellent.

01:14:03.840 That's my kind of law school.

01:14:05.340 See you soon, my friend.

01:14:07.380 Thank you.

01:14:08.600 All right.

01:14:08.860 Coming up, a story you are not going to want to miss about the NAACP speaking out about

01:14:13.760 crime, about the absence of police, about defund the police and about soft on crime prosecutors

01:14:19.360 in Oakland, California.

01:14:21.480 That's next.

01:14:22.280 We first told you last week about a stunning letter from the local Oakland chapter of the

01:14:30.740 NAACP and a prominent pastor.

01:14:33.400 In it, they chastised the city's leadership for their failure to combat crime.

01:14:37.960 They write, in part, it is not racist or unkind to want to be safe from crime.

01:14:43.920 No one should live in fear in our city.

01:14:46.680 Since January, violent crime is up 15 percent there over the same period last year.

01:14:52.220 Rape is up 12 percent.

01:14:54.240 Burglaries up 41 percent.

01:14:56.920 Vehicle thefts have increased 52 percent.

01:15:00.140 Some blame the new soft on crime DA, who denies she's part of the problem.

01:15:05.800 Today, we're super happy to have one of the authors of the letter with us.

01:15:09.380 Bishop Bob Jackson is co-founder and senior pastor, Acts Full Gospel Church.

01:15:14.580 And also with us is Seneca Scott, founder of Neighbors Together Oakland and a member of

01:15:19.820 the NAACP Oakland.

01:15:22.200 Gentlemen, thank you so much for being here.

01:15:24.060 It was, I got to tell you, it was extraordinary for me to see this because I'm just going to

01:15:27.980 be honest, Seneca.

01:15:28.820 When I see the NAACP, I just assume they're far left and they're pro-defund the police

01:15:35.040 and they would support a DA like this.

01:15:37.420 And at least in Oakland, I got it wrong.

01:15:40.260 I would say in Oakland, it is wrong.

01:15:43.400 But first, I'll let Bishop talk about a little bit what inspired him to write the letter.

01:15:47.440 But Megan, thank you so much for having us on this morning.

01:15:50.180 We're very excited for this interview.

01:15:51.840 Oh, the pleasure's all mine.

01:15:52.880 So, Bishop, you are one of the most well-respected people in all of Oakland.

01:15:57.320 I mean, you are an icon there.

01:16:00.040 And this is an extraordinary thing for you to come out.

01:16:02.340 And I'll just tell the viewers, in part, it calls for a state of emergency in Oakland.

01:16:06.960 It blames failed leadership, including the movement to defund the police, the DA's unwillingness

01:16:12.280 to charge and prosecute people who murder, the proliferation of anti-police rhetoric, saying

01:16:18.280 that all of that has created a heyday for Oakland criminals.

01:16:21.920 So why did you feel the need to write this letter?

01:16:25.200 Well, because it's very obvious that there was no real focus from the leaders of the city

01:16:30.760 on public safety.

01:16:33.180 And I'm here because I have a large membership at the Expo Gospel Church in Oakland, and our

01:16:40.680 members didn't feel safe.

01:16:42.000 They're not coming out to night services.

01:16:44.980 The merchants that I know, their businesses are being robbed, and people are breaking into

01:16:51.200 the cars while the people are trying to go and shop.

01:16:53.520 And the whole thing has presented such an environment of danger and lawlessness that actually the

01:16:59.220 citizens do not feel safe.

01:17:01.160 So because, to me, the citizens didn't have a voice, and if they did, no one was really

01:17:06.940 listening to them about public safety being a priority.

01:17:10.480 So coming together with Cynthia Adams, the president of the Oakland chapter of the NAACP, we wrote

01:17:17.000 the letter to bring more awareness to the fact that, hey, hey, we're citizens here.

01:17:21.540 We're taxpayers.

01:17:22.560 We live in this city.

01:17:24.000 We demand to have safety and feel protected in our city that we love so well.

01:17:32.860 And we don't seem to be getting that type of treatment.

01:17:36.660 And this is the whole reason for the letter.

01:17:39.500 It's all centered around public safety.

01:17:42.760 Do you feel like the defund the police movement has hurt the safety and well-being of Oakland

01:17:48.060 residents?

01:17:49.360 Well, when it comes down to defunding the police, you take $18 million from the police

01:17:54.020 department, and then the citizens are calling 911 and put on hold for 35 and 45 minutes when

01:18:00.300 they have a crisis going on in the city, can't get a response, can't get through the police,

01:18:04.820 can't get the protection that they need from the citizens.

01:18:07.380 And they blame it on the fact that they don't have enough money in their budget to pay for

01:18:12.660 911 people and personnel to take those complaints and whatnot and feel them out to the officers.

01:18:19.800 And then the other part is we don't have enough police officers to police the city.

01:18:23.700 I think we have around 700 police officers when we really need a minimum of 1,200 officers

01:18:29.360 to patrol and police the city.

01:18:31.780 So the feeling of being unprotected, the feeling of being unsafe.

01:18:37.080 And one of the things that I was saying was that you force the citizens to pick up guns

01:18:42.340 and begin to protect themselves, which is going to be a real terrible thing to have.

01:18:46.860 It's already begun, Bishop.

01:18:49.160 And in the last week alone, we've seen an elderly woman return fire to a home invader.

01:18:54.180 And we're seeing an increasing number of people who are self-help and victims of crime.

01:19:00.340 I wanted to point out one thing about defund, because I think this is the part of the nuance

01:19:05.100 that is missing the national conversation, Megan, and that's this.

01:19:08.820 The NAACP's convention was in Boston, as you know.

01:19:12.380 We just got back.

01:19:14.060 The city of Boston is very similar to Oakland.

01:19:16.440 First-generation Asian-American mayor, fully progressive city council.

01:19:20.180 They have an active defund movement.

01:19:22.000 Here's where the difference is.

01:19:23.120 Boston has a population of 666,000 people.

01:19:27.820 Oakland has a population of 450,000 people.

01:19:31.240 As Bishop just said, we have slightly over 700 officers.

01:19:35.280 Boston has over 2,200 officers.

01:19:38.260 So Boston, if you scale it, we would be over our 1,200.

01:19:42.080 And we could talk about defunding or putting, allocating law enforcement services to places

01:19:47.540 that actually do impact neighborhoods and get ahead of the violent crime.

01:19:51.560 But when you don't have a baseline of public safety, and you have elected officials who

01:19:55.860 are playing politics with public safety, saying things like, crime is down.

01:20:00.000 If you look at Oakland's political discourse, we have elected officials quoting several times,

01:20:04.680 as we should have two weeks ago, that crime's down.

01:20:07.500 Then we get the latest reports that crime is up, and everyone's befuddled.

01:20:11.360 So we all know that crime is up.

01:20:13.200 We're living through it.

01:20:14.280 So I think it's time that they start listening to the neighbors, especially the elders, who

01:20:18.520 are expressing high amounts of distress of their personal safety, and do something urgently

01:20:23.960 to restore that confidence in the voters.

01:20:26.240 Well, I know, Seneca, you tweeted out this video of gunshots, and you were saying to the mayor,

01:20:33.640 who I guess she's out of town right now, but you tweeted out,

01:20:36.240 a quiet Oakland street erupts in gunfire.

01:20:38.420 The Oakland mayor may want to get back from Asia soon, while she still has a city to return to.

01:20:43.760 One person shot.

01:20:44.660 We've got the video.

01:20:45.500 Let's show it just so that people can see what you're dealing with.

01:20:48.720 Oh, my gosh.

01:21:09.240 Oh, my gosh.

01:21:18.720 Seneca, that has the look of something you'd see in the old Wild West.

01:21:24.120 Well, that's exactly what we think we're in, the Wild Wild West, especially in the city

01:21:29.120 of Oakland.

01:21:29.720 And so at 75, we can name a lot of incidents recently that's just happened.

01:21:34.640 We're not talking about years ago.

01:21:36.780 We're talking about what's happening right now.

01:21:39.120 A 75-year-old woman had a home invasion.

01:21:41.900 They tried to kick in her front door.

01:21:43.160 She was smart enough to grab her .357 Magnum and start shooting at them as they were trying

01:21:48.000 to break in on her.

01:21:49.080 And then they began to open fire on her home, shooting 20 to 30 bullets into this woman's

01:21:55.320 house.

01:21:55.640 I guess they thought she was going to be easy pickings, but she fooled them.

01:21:59.160 But what I'm concerned about, and they passed out a big notice to the thieves in that area,

01:22:04.400 that if you come here, we have our guns to take care of you.

01:22:07.500 Now, what kind of a city is that when everybody's got a gun?

01:22:11.040 If it's not Dodge City and Wyatt Earp's day, I don't know what it is.

01:22:15.000 So we're calling together for the police to come together, the law enforcement agencies

01:22:20.260 to come together to devise a plan to work on the crime, the lawlessness that's going

01:22:25.660 on too long.

01:22:26.540 I get it where it came from, Megan.

01:22:28.700 It came from the COVID-19 epidemic.

01:22:32.340 And because when COVID hit, San Quentin had an outbreak of COVID and the prisoners were

01:22:37.860 dying and whatnot.

01:22:39.040 Somebody up top passed a law to let all the prisoners out so they don't die on our dime.

01:22:44.140 We paid for those lawsuits that their families are having because we didn't protect those

01:22:49.480 inmates.

01:22:50.380 But I don't think they came back after COVID's main thrust was over and down.

01:22:55.440 I don't think they came back to reestablish the law for those criminals.

01:23:00.820 And that's why they're able to go in the stores and just grab stuff because they don't want

01:23:04.480 to lock them up.

01:23:05.840 And it was because of the COVID epidemic.

01:23:08.280 We're not having that right now.

01:23:10.080 But it's still the same the way it was when it was in COVID, when we were in the COVID

01:23:15.360 crisis.

01:23:16.040 So I think that's that's probably the beginning, the genesis of what we're looking at right

01:23:21.080 now.

01:23:22.140 Of course, COVID coincided in May of 2020 with the death of George Floyd.

01:23:26.780 And post that, we saw in city after city, very soft on crime DAs get elected, including

01:23:32.900 in Oakland and Pamela Price.

01:23:36.740 She's been subjected now to the threat of a recall, similar to what we saw in San Francisco.

01:23:41.900 She is totally, from what I've seen, unapologetic for her soft on crime policy.

01:23:46.140 She is not putting teenagers.

01:23:49.220 If you're a 17 year old and you murder somebody, she's really not that interested in you.

01:23:53.460 From what I see here, she is giving an interview to the local CBS in July where she's being

01:23:59.060 asked about this, you know, this growing sentiment against her.

01:24:02.880 Take a listen to her.

01:24:03.700 South 16.

01:24:05.560 Family members of victims are saying that the decisions you have made are unfair to them,

01:24:10.240 that sentences that criminals have been given are excessively lenient, and that perpetrators

01:24:15.760 are favored over victims.

01:24:18.100 What's your response to that?

01:24:19.380 I feel definitely, my heart goes out to the people who have lost loved ones in this community.

01:24:27.300 So we, at the district attorney's office, are very, very committed to making sure that

01:24:32.560 we're providing the best services.

01:24:35.080 Some people are not able to actually appreciate the work that we do.

01:24:41.460 There are people who say that we are here because they don't feel safe.

01:24:45.500 I was elected because the people in this community didn't feel safe, unfortunately.

01:24:52.180 We know that crime under my predecessor was, you know, pretty much exploding.

01:24:58.180 The DA's role has really no impact on crime.

01:25:02.080 Do you feel safe living in Oakland?

01:25:03.880 Yes, I do.

01:25:05.220 I live in East Oakland even, and I know a lot of people think, oh, that's terrible.

01:25:09.360 I feel safe.

01:25:11.000 She feels safe.

01:25:12.240 People don't appreciate the work that she does.

01:25:14.500 And really, the DA has no impact on crime.

01:25:17.840 What do you guys make of that?

01:25:19.400 Well, it was just a judge.

01:25:21.200 Seneca, if I can have it just a minute.

01:25:22.860 Oh, for sure, brother.

01:25:24.360 It was a judge going to his office, downtown Oakland.

01:25:27.500 And on his way into his office, he was mugged, robbed, made to lie on the ground while they

01:25:33.720 robbed him and whatever and so forth.

01:25:35.360 So I don't know what she's talking about.

01:25:37.380 And now the other day, there was a man coming back to his car.

01:25:41.000 They were in the process of robbing his car, breaking into his car.

01:25:44.740 He pulled out his gun.

01:25:45.980 This is on 10th and Broadway, Main Street of Oakland, in the day, broad daylight.

01:25:51.400 He pulls out his gun and starts shooting at these guys.

01:25:53.600 They jump in their car and start returning fire to him.

01:25:56.340 So more than 10 bullets were shot on Broadway, the Main Street of Oakland, in broad daylight.

01:26:04.360 And these guys, what is that?

01:26:06.500 Those bullets didn't have anybody's name on them.

01:26:08.860 They could have hit anybody.

01:26:10.140 Old people, people walking.

01:26:12.340 Thank God it didn't hit anybody.

01:26:14.080 But I'm just telling you that the things that are happening are not being really reported

01:26:19.200 like they should.

01:26:20.220 And the kind of crime and the lawlessness that we're seeing every day.

01:26:24.460 I'm in the community every day.

01:26:26.400 My members live in the community every day.

01:26:29.080 And we see it.

01:26:29.980 We experience it.

01:26:31.040 We hear the hurt.

01:26:32.120 We hear the pain.

01:26:33.040 Many of them want to move out.

01:26:34.380 A lot of them are stuck and can't move out.

01:26:36.560 And they're saying, hey, we pay the Lord.

01:26:38.560 We pay more taxes in Oakland than any other city in Alameda County.

01:26:43.500 But to citizens of Oakland, we're getting less service.

01:26:46.620 And police and law agencies are all around, but they don't seem to work together on public

01:26:53.180 safety.

01:26:53.800 And that's what our real clarion cry is.

01:26:57.220 We need them to synergize and come together and work together with a plan on public safety.

01:27:03.240 Make our public safe is all we're asking for.

01:27:06.600 She doesn't seem interested in changing any of her policies, Seneca.

01:27:09.340 I mean, to the contrary.

01:27:10.140 And in response to your letter, she came out and said her office, we're disappointed.

01:27:14.060 We're disappointed that a great African-American pastor and a great African-American organization

01:27:18.260 would take a false narrative on such an important matter.

01:27:22.480 We would expect more from Bishop Bob Jackson and the Oakland chapter of the NAACP.

01:27:28.220 I don't know how much more you can expect from me.

01:27:30.980 We do the funerals of just about every violent crime, the shootings and stuff.

01:27:36.520 We do the funerals of those families.

01:27:37.960 And many of those people that are being killed, those young people that are being shot are

01:27:42.820 black people.

01:27:44.080 And I'm telling you, at those funerals, you see the mothers, you see the sisters and brothers,

01:27:48.840 you see the family begin to weep and cry over their loved one lying in that casket.

01:27:53.920 I'm telling you, the crime is out of hand and it's impacting the entire city now.

01:27:59.160 Well, no one is saying, I just got a phone call from one of the bishops in Oakland who

01:28:03.580 went to his bank to make a deposit.

01:28:06.780 And on his way to his car, he was robbed.

01:28:10.780 And two guys jumped out of a car with pistols and robbed him $125 and then took his watch.

01:28:17.540 And it's just the grace of God that they didn't take his life.

01:28:20.820 These were in broad daylight.

01:28:23.440 So the point is, no sense in calling 911.

01:28:25.920 You're not going to get a response.

01:28:27.020 So I don't know what Pam Price is saying, that she lives in DP, Stokeland.

01:28:31.280 I don't know.

01:28:32.200 But this-

01:28:32.860 Well, Bishop, you know she travels with six bodyguards.

01:28:36.960 For what?

01:28:37.880 So maybe she does feel safe because our taxpayer dollars are paying for her extravagant security.

01:28:44.880 I'll add another point.

01:28:47.680 One thing she said was correct.

01:28:50.140 Pam Price won with a mandate.

01:28:51.740 And I think this is the part that is important for us to realize.

01:28:57.000 When people vote for luxury politics that affect neighborhoods they don't live in, the

01:29:01.960 inconsequence are people who play politics for public safety.

01:29:05.640 Now, it only so happens that in a matter of very few months, that election had very severe

01:29:11.560 consequences.

01:29:12.260 So now many people are having second thought, which is why I believe you have a talk of a

01:29:16.900 recall.

01:29:17.960 But that notwithstanding, I think that what we want from Pamela Price from the NAACP is

01:29:24.680 an honest, good-faith dialogue.

01:29:26.900 It's hard to do that when elders are telling you and pleading with you that they don't feel

01:29:31.000 safe.

01:29:31.800 And you're going on TV saying, I feel perfectly safe when the entire city is aware that you

01:29:36.160 have private security.

01:29:38.340 So it's just ingenuous.

01:29:39.740 We would like for her to recenter herself, remember her promises to her people, that

01:29:45.760 she would listen to us and make us safer, and re-engage with us in a way that is meaningful

01:29:51.540 for our community.

01:29:53.020 What do you mean, Zika?

01:29:53.880 Can you expand on the luxury politics piece of what you just said?

01:29:58.780 Well, luxury politics to me mean, because this is our policy.

01:30:03.040 What separates Oakland from Alameda, Emeryvale, Berkeley, and our surrounding cities is an

01:30:10.360 invisible wall of failed policy.

01:30:12.560 That's why the graffiti dissipates.

01:30:14.820 The 911 times response time gets better the moment you leave the city.

01:30:19.160 Everyone was impacted by COVID.

01:30:21.140 Our surrounding cities have similar racial demographics and wealth disability demographics.

01:30:25.060 So what's making Oakland a descent into lawlessness, where it's like we're living in GTA with the

01:30:31.040 riot mode on, it's our policy.

01:30:33.780 When you look at our elections, the people who vote the most are white people who are affluent,

01:30:38.640 who live in the hills.

01:30:40.080 Oakland is separated between the hills and the flats by a major freeway.

01:30:44.200 And so people who live above that freeway vote with greater frequency, and they vote on things

01:30:50.020 that don't impact them until now.

01:30:52.980 Now we have an opportunity.

01:30:55.260 And instead of pointing a finger and blaming those neighbors, it's time to have a real peace,

01:31:01.860 a healing and conversation in Oakland that's been needed for generations about what can we

01:31:06.380 do to make sure that everyone feels safe and that nothing is radical or revolutionary unless

01:31:11.160 it's accessible to everyone.

01:31:12.980 If Oakland wants to really be a revolutionary city with radical accessibility, it must make

01:31:18.420 sure that all people in working-class neighborhoods have the same levels of safety as people in

01:31:23.380 affluent neighborhoods.

01:31:24.680 And I wanted to just comment on that, Seneca, if I could, Megan, just for a minute.

01:31:29.320 And that is that the fact that the 75-year-old woman that had the home invasion was only

01:31:34.400 two doors from city council member Treva Reed, just two doors away from where she lived in

01:31:41.280 Oakland.

01:31:41.640 That was at the top of the hill on the 106th Avenue.

01:31:44.200 I didn't know that.

01:31:45.280 Oh, man.

01:31:45.740 Yeah, so she was able to go over and comfort the lady.

01:31:49.040 A lot of comfort I'm sure the lady had.

01:31:51.280 But the point of it is, where were the police?

01:31:53.440 And where was the shot spotter?

01:31:55.040 And where was the response time for 20 to 30 shots being fired at her home?

01:32:00.480 And I mean, this is 2 o'clock in the morning.

01:32:03.280 My point is saying it is, it could have been the council member's house.

01:32:07.320 And Pamela Price, it could have been her house.

01:32:09.460 My point is saying it is, these criminals, they're not particular about who they're robbing,

01:32:14.520 and who they're mugging.

01:32:15.520 It could have been your mother.

01:32:16.540 It could have been your 75-year-old woman.

01:32:19.220 Come on, man.

01:32:19.800 Well, they are particular.

01:32:21.520 They're targeting elderly and they're targeting women.

01:32:24.620 Yeah, but they targeted this.

01:32:25.800 We saw an extraordinary videotape of a woman getting carjacked in connection with, I think

01:32:30.960 it was a CBS local piece that showed those citizens outside and lined up like trying to

01:32:35.700 get on the Aerosmith ride at Disney just to go berate the DA about her policies.

01:32:42.400 And the local, I think CBS was doing a report on it, and they highlighted this carjacking,

01:32:48.360 which was extraordinary.

01:32:50.760 I'll play it for the audience because you can see what these citizens are going through,

01:32:53.720 this scary thing.

01:32:54.880 This woman, she's driving.

01:32:56.500 You can hear her reaction as she starts to get hijacked, and then she drives away.

01:33:01.320 It's all caught on tape on her.

01:33:02.680 I guess she has some sort of a camera in her car, but here it is.

01:33:05.560 Come on, now.

01:33:12.760 Quit fucking around.

01:33:14.640 This carj cuts her off.

01:33:16.160 He's getting out.

01:33:17.040 No.

01:33:19.820 Hey, she got some driving skills.

01:33:25.380 You know, I got that video first.

01:33:27.660 I think I was the first person.

01:33:29.340 Is that right?

01:33:29.840 That was really scary.

01:33:31.960 Yeah.

01:33:32.420 And that's not in the Flatlands, by the way.

01:33:34.640 That's also in the hills, where affluent people live.

01:33:37.600 So no one is safe in the city of Oakland.

01:33:40.020 That's the general feeling of the population there right now.

01:33:43.560 And so what we're saying is, hey, hey, it's time to come out of the tunnel vision.

01:33:47.420 It's time to quit pleasing those people that put money in your campaigns or whatever else.

01:33:52.420 And it's time to look at the whole city.

01:33:54.360 And public safety need to be priority one to make sure our citizens are safe.

01:34:00.080 All right.

01:34:00.700 Now, I can't go without asking you, Seneca.

01:34:02.780 Your last name is Scott, and that may be familiar to a lot of folks, thanks to your

01:34:07.180 relation to Coretta Scott King, who is married to MLK.

01:34:10.540 And I got to ask you this because I had the same reaction you did.

01:34:14.340 Forgive me.

01:34:15.240 But I got to ask you about that Martin Luther King statue that they put up as an homage

01:34:21.520 to MLK and Coretta Scott King.

01:34:23.840 And I just, I mean, I thought what you think, I read that you called it a masturbatory homage

01:34:30.240 to your family.

01:34:32.140 What did you make of that thing?

01:34:35.220 You know, I was really disappointed that they cut their heads off.

01:34:39.180 If you look a thousand years in the future, no one's going to know who that was meant to honor.

01:34:43.440 I will say that the Embrace Boston, Embrace Ideas Foundation had me out for June 10th, eight

01:34:50.060 weeks ago, and I got to see the place and the installation myself.

01:34:55.300 And if you look at it from other angles, it wasn't half that.

01:34:58.520 But overall, I'm still disappointed, as is the family, that Coretta's regal face was not

01:35:04.600 shown.

01:35:05.300 And the symbol of Black love at its purest and most devotional, I think there was a missed

01:35:10.280 opportunity there.

01:35:11.140 However, the organization that funded it is doing tremendous work in the city of Boston,

01:35:15.660 and I'm very happy to have connected with them.

01:35:18.880 Well, it's too bad that they undermined their message with such a graphic display.

01:35:24.700 Listen, you guys are stand-up guys.

01:35:26.880 Thank you so much for coming on.

01:35:27.960 Thanks for speaking out.

01:35:29.320 Wishing all the best to you and hope you get real change.

01:35:32.040 I know you want a state of emergency.

01:35:33.820 Maybe this DA could get recalled and you could see some real change there in Oakland.

01:35:38.420 We'll continue to follow it.

01:35:39.500 All the best to you guys.

01:35:41.140 Thank you very much.

01:35:41.940 Thank you very much, Megan.

01:35:42.700 Thanks for having us.

01:35:43.660 Yeah.

01:35:44.020 Yeah.

01:35:44.380 Keep in touch.

01:35:45.740 And thanks to all of you for following us this week.

01:35:48.780 And we'll be back next week.

01:35:53.640 Thanks for listening to The Megan Kelly Show.

01:35:55.540 No BS, no agenda, and no fear.

The Megyn Kelly Show - August 03, 2023

Biden Corruption in Plain Sight, and Residents Fed Up With Crime, with Andrew Klavan, Alan Dershowitz, and More ｜ Ep. 601

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