The Megyn Kelly Show - Biden Cover-Up Continues, Gavin Newsom's Terrible Answer, and Trump's New Epstein Hoax Framing, with Rich Lowry

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00:00:31.140 Welcome to The Megyn Kelly Show, live on Sirius XM Channel 111 every weekday at New East.

00:00:42.760 Hey everyone, I'm Megyn Kelly. Welcome to The Megyn Kelly Show.

00:00:45.680 Still in Vail, Colorado, but not intentionally.

00:00:49.420 I am in an airport, like, back room because my flight was delayed five hours.

00:00:57.100 Which pretty much blows up one's day.

00:00:59.560 I was going to do the show when I got back home on the opposite end.

00:01:03.180 But that not being possible, you now, I mean, for the listening audience,

00:01:07.200 I'm sitting in one of these, like, crappy little white-walled rooms.

00:01:11.320 Although I have to say, the staff at the airport has been absolutely lovely.

00:01:15.060 But I'm just saying it's not like a, it's not a real set.

00:01:18.500 I do have the Colorado Mountains in the foreground here.

00:01:21.300 You can't see it because it would completely wash out the shot.

00:01:24.200 But I have a lovely view of the mountains here.

00:01:28.160 And it was a lovely two-day trip.

00:01:30.620 And it's not really like the trappings of the Red Studio, but it's going to work.

00:01:35.900 So forgive all the boxes in the background.

00:01:37.860 And my makeshift studio comes with me on the road.

00:01:40.040 And this is exactly why.

00:01:42.500 Okay, let's start with some news.

00:01:44.820 About what, was it like a week ago now?

00:01:46.800 We led with the fact that Joe Biden's doctor, Kevin O'Connor, had pled the fifth in response

00:01:53.780 to James Comer's subpoena as he tries to get to the bottom of who was president at the

00:01:57.780 tail end of Joe Biden's alleged presidency.

00:02:00.320 And he would not answer his questions about whether he was taking, whether he's noted any

00:02:05.500 cognitive decline, et cetera, and whether he was asked to lie.

00:02:08.920 Well, it's happened again.

00:02:10.440 Do you guys remember when Jake Tapper and Alex Thompson came on, on their book?

00:02:14.260 And they talked about in that book, they wrote about in that book and talked about in the

00:02:17.740 show how this guy, Anthony Bernal, was a total bully and really at the center of the cover-up

00:02:24.900 of Joe Biden's mental infirmity.

00:02:26.660 He was Jill Biden's chief enforcer, her jackal.

00:02:31.300 It sounds like everybody in the Biden White House loathed this guy per this book.

00:02:36.500 He was not well-liked and he was drunk on his own power.

00:02:39.940 That's my own take reading the book.

00:02:41.480 So he got subpoenaed since he clearly was in on the whole Biden mental infirmity cover-up.

00:02:47.480 He might have been one of the chief architects of it.

00:02:49.860 And he just pled the fifth too.

00:02:52.100 He showed up this morning to Comer's committee and reading here off of the Representative James

00:02:57.560 Comer post on X that was just put out and just invoked the Fifth Amendment during his

00:03:03.880 congressional deposition.

00:03:05.140 This is a quote here from Comer.

00:03:06.340 This week, new reporting confirms President Biden's aides took unauthorized executive actions

00:03:11.120 during his presidency amid his cognitive decline.

00:03:13.640 He's referring to the Autopenn article from the New York Times that we discussed yesterday.

00:03:17.580 It's no surprise that Anthony Bernal is pleading the Fifth Amendment to shield himself from

00:03:21.420 criminal liability.

00:03:22.800 During his deposition today, Mr. Bernal pleaded the Fifth when asked if any unelected official

00:03:28.040 or family members, executed the duties of the president, and if Joe Biden ever instructed

00:03:33.580 him to lie about his health.

00:03:37.020 This is a historic scandal.

00:03:39.400 And Americans demand transparency and accountability.

00:03:42.740 We will continue to pursue the truth on their behalf and examine options to get the answers

00:03:46.840 we need.

00:03:48.280 Wow.

00:03:48.980 Joining me now to discuss it is National Review's Rich Lowry.

00:03:53.000 Go ahead and subscribe.

00:03:53.900 Become an NR Plus member today.

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00:06:03.060 Rich, here we are again.

00:06:04.460 First, the doctor.

00:06:05.340 Now, one of the chief enforcers within the Biden administration, Jill Biden.

00:06:09.800 Again, he's her jackal.

00:06:10.780 That's what all the reporting suggests out there.

00:06:13.200 Will not answer the question, incredible, of whether any unelected official or family

00:06:18.640 members executed the duties of president, and whether Joe Biden ever told him to lie about

00:06:23.940 his health.

00:06:24.440 Your thoughts?

00:06:26.300 Yeah, it's pretty extraordinary.

00:06:27.560 My assumption was that they just lie or dance around such questions.

00:06:32.960 I never imagined they'd take the fifth, but here we are.

00:06:35.700 Usually not a great sign about your health if your doctor feels compelled to take the

00:06:39.620 fifth.

00:06:40.020 And those two questions are incredibly telling, right?

00:06:44.320 That he doesn't feel comfortable answering those.

00:06:46.760 And on the Autopend controversy, Biden does this interview with the New York Times.

00:06:50.420 Kind of extraordinary that he didn't do an interview with the New York Times his entire

00:06:53.420 presidency.

00:06:54.320 Donald Trump, who hates the New York Times, is on the phone with Maggie Haberman and New

00:06:58.160 York Times journalist all the time.

00:06:59.400 But in the course of that interview, it was damning, right?

00:07:03.440 He didn't approve individually these people.

00:07:06.040 He approved broad categories.

00:07:08.120 So I think there's a legitimate question about whether those pardons are indeed legally valid.

00:07:16.140 Do you think there's any chance these things actually get overturned?

00:07:20.400 You know, all along I've been kind of looking at the Comer investigation as a political move

00:07:25.120 and a worthwhile one, but not one that's likely going to lead anywhere, I'm starting to second

00:07:29.660 guess myself.

00:07:31.460 Yeah.

00:07:31.920 I wonder what the mechanism would be.

00:07:35.500 Would a court feel empowered to just say, no, sorry, this doesn't apply.

00:07:42.900 I guess it would start with the Trump administration challenging one of these pardons, right?

00:07:47.900 And then getting litigation going.

00:07:50.600 But we'd be an uncharted territory.

00:07:52.380 I don't think they have enough based on that New York Times article.

00:07:54.960 OK, so that article was damning, but I don't think that was enough to get a pardon reversed.

00:07:59.460 However, I'm interested more in this Comer lane because, you know, they're running in

00:08:03.380 tandem.

00:08:04.200 And so you've got the admissions to the New York Times coupled with they're going to get

00:08:09.600 Kevin O'Connor's testimony at some point.

00:08:11.980 I think they're going to give this guy immunity.

00:08:13.720 They don't want to put Kevin O'Connor behind bars.

00:08:15.500 They want an answer to the question.

00:08:17.660 And his only other claim of privilege is Dr. Patient, which can be pierced by a subpoena.

00:08:24.500 As a lawyer, I can speak to that.

00:08:26.600 You know very well that you've got a lawyer-client privilege you have to uphold.

00:08:30.200 But if you get subpoenaed to federal court, it's a different story.

00:08:33.580 So this guy is going to be forced to talk.

00:08:35.780 And my only question is whether, like, if you get O'Connor and possibly Burnell, if

00:08:40.640 they give him immunity to it, because, again, they're not interested in putting him behind

00:08:43.440 bars.

00:08:43.920 They want to get the story.

00:08:47.060 Whether we could wind up with testimony from two of these top guys saying, yes, I was told

00:08:51.920 to lie about himself.

00:08:53.360 Yes, there were civilians.

00:08:55.200 You know, this is Burnell right here today, the second guy in the middle there.

00:08:59.660 And there's Griff Jenkins trying to get him on record.

00:09:01.840 Um, well, if you've got those guys eventually on record saying that they, they were in charge

00:09:07.120 of the presidency and they were told a lie, now we're talking about possibly undoing, I

00:09:12.980 mean, forget the pardons.

00:09:14.000 We could go well beyond that.

00:09:16.160 Yeah.

00:09:16.820 Well, but the ultimate play though, right, is transparency and just knowing the truth

00:09:21.500 about what was a conspiracy against the public interest.

00:09:25.980 So that you just, you just want to, want to get it out.

00:09:29.480 You know, I don't think Democrats are ever going to fess up to what they, they did.

00:09:33.860 Uh, you know, what's his name?

00:09:34.980 Uh, Andy Beshear, the governor of Kentucky was on meet the press last weekend.

00:09:39.100 He wasn't part of this conspiracy.

00:09:40.580 He wasn't close to the white house asked, you know, did, were Democrats too secretive

00:09:45.040 about this and didn't acknowledge the truth soon enough.

00:09:47.580 And he just, he wouldn't say it, right?

00:09:49.340 None of them will say it.

00:09:51.100 So obviously you got some journalists who've dug in Jake Tapper and Alex Thompson and Comer's

00:09:56.760 doing good work here.

00:09:57.540 Yeah, here's, um, Dr. O'Connor, uh, on July 9th, refusing to answer.

00:10:04.980 Watch.

00:10:05.700 Dr. O'Connor, were you ever told to lie about the president's health?

00:10:11.580 On the advice of counsel, I must respectfully decline to answer based upon physician patient

00:10:16.180 privilege and in reliance on my right under the fifth amendment of the constitution.

00:10:20.460 I am not a lawyer.

00:10:21.400 I must follow my lawyer's advice in this matter.

00:10:23.900 Let the record reflect that Dr. O'Connor has invoked the fifth amendment right against

00:10:30.200 self-incrimination.

00:10:31.500 Dr. O'Connor, please be very clear.

00:10:34.060 Are you declining to answer the question put to you solely on the ground that you believe

00:10:37.600 the answer will incriminate you?

00:10:39.680 On the advice of counsel, I must respectfully decline to answer based upon the physician's

00:10:44.500 patient privilege and in reliance on my right under the fifth amendment of the constitution.

00:10:49.100 I am not a lawyer, and I must follow my lawyer's advice in this matter.

00:10:54.840 Dr. O'Connor, did you ever believe the president was unfit to execute his duties as president?

00:11:02.720 On the advice of counsel, I must respectfully decline to answer based on the physician patient

00:11:08.100 privilege and in reliance on my right under the fifth amendment of the constitution.

00:11:12.740 I'm not a lawyer, and I must follow my lawyer's advice in this matter.

00:11:16.140 Wow, and you heard the same from Bernal this morning, who sounds like a very unlikable guy.

00:11:23.940 This is pretty incredible.

00:11:25.000 I mean, Joe Biden's been out of office now for six, almost seven months, and they're still

00:11:29.800 embroiled in scandal created by him.

00:11:33.880 Yeah, and that's just extraordinary.

00:11:36.360 To claim a fifth on that question, I had a very dim view of how they were handling Biden

00:11:42.500 and thought they were lying all along, but I never would have considered a possibility

00:11:46.300 that someone would have directly told his doctor to lie, and that at least opens up the possibility

00:11:51.940 there.

00:11:52.300 You would think you do it all on body language, and you're picking someone who's loyal, you

00:11:57.040 know who's going to be on the team and knows the score.

00:12:00.600 So nothing explicit has to be said, you know, kind of mafia rules, but that non-answer, that

00:12:07.560 invocation of the fifth raises a possibility that he was actually told affirmatively to

00:12:13.740 cover it up.

00:12:14.880 That's exactly right, because truly the discussions that must have happened behind closed doors

00:12:18.660 with both O'Connor and Bernal would have gone between the lawyer and the client.

00:12:23.480 Did anybody tell you to lie about the right?

00:12:26.260 Right, and if the answer were, no, God, no, nobody told me that, and no, there were no

00:12:32.280 unauthorized civilians making presidential decisions, and I have nothing to hide, then

00:12:37.260 you could easily walk in here, you could be combative, you could give it to Comer just

00:12:41.340 as good as you were getting it.

00:12:42.840 Right.

00:12:43.160 They clearly do have something to hide, and I just, I do not believe they're going to

00:12:48.020 be able to keep it hidden indefinitely.

00:12:51.840 Comer or somebody, you know, Comer's enforcement mechanism is to go to the DOJ, and

00:12:56.240 have contempt charges brought against them, like we saw done to Steve Bannon, and if

00:13:01.820 they don't comply, they could wind up behind bars, like we saw done to Steve Bannon.

00:13:06.520 So I just don't think Kevin O'Connor is going to go sit in a jail cell.

00:13:09.440 I think they're going to say, you will talk, or you'll go to jail.

00:13:13.460 On the other hand, we could offer you immunity, and then you could just give us straightforward

00:13:16.700 answers.

00:13:17.360 It's just a matter of time before we get to the bottom of this.

00:13:20.220 Here is a bit of our conversation with Tapper and Thompson on Anthony Bernal, who they did

00:13:27.780 quite a bit of reporting on in that book.

00:13:29.880 You write about this guy Bernal a lot, and you suggest, Jake, it was very tough to find

00:13:35.180 anybody with a nice word to say about this guy who was Jill Biden's top person.

00:13:40.140 Yeah, and he acknowledged that he had a tough reputation.

00:13:42.660 He was the chief of staff for Jill Biden and perhaps the most powerful first lady chief

00:13:47.840 of staff in the history of this country.

00:13:50.860 He is somebody that enforced what Jill Biden wanted.

00:13:54.240 And at the end of the day, one of the things that was interesting when we wrote this book

00:13:58.260 and researched this book was trying to figure out why was there no discussion of whether

00:14:02.640 or not he should run for re-election?

00:14:04.860 Why was it just a foregone conclusion that he was going to run for re-election, especially

00:14:08.040 after he had made this kind of vague promise that he would be a one-term president?

00:14:12.660 And it came down to two people, one of whom spoke for Biden, that's Mike Donilon, and

00:14:17.420 the other one spoke for First Lady Jill Biden, and that's Anthony Bernal.

00:14:21.160 And basically, they communicated to the rest of the staff, Bernal would say, you run for

00:14:28.180 two terms, you serve for two terms, you don't do one.

00:14:32.600 I mean, he was calling the shots inside that White House, and it really looks like it's possible

00:14:38.180 Joe Biden found out that he was running for a second term after Anthony Bernal and Jill

00:14:45.100 Biden decided he was going to.

00:14:47.440 Wouldn't that be amazing?

00:14:48.620 Now, it's very unusual for a First Lady Chief of Staff to have so much power, but it makes

00:14:52.860 sense here because the First Lady was so influential.

00:14:56.700 And she's at the center of this conspiracy.

00:15:00.040 If Democrats are going to be upset with anyone, yeah, sure, they should be upset with Joe,

00:15:04.000 but they should be upset more about Jill because she knew everything about his condition more

00:15:08.100 than anyone else.

00:15:08.980 And she could have pulled the plug and said, no, honey, you know, in 2023 when they're

00:15:13.520 considering this.

00:15:14.340 Yeah, sorry.

00:15:15.700 That's not necessary yet.

00:15:18.040 Pulled the plug politically and said, we're not doing this.

00:15:20.220 Sorry, we're not doing this, honey.

00:15:21.560 You're not a flirt, but obviously she was fully on on board trying to get him to serve

00:15:27.220 a second term, which the idea that he could have served to, you know, January 2029 is one

00:15:32.660 of the most preposterous things the American public has ever been asked to believe, and

00:15:36.540 they didn't believe it.

00:15:38.480 Yep.

00:15:39.100 And here is Bernal now through his lawyer.

00:15:41.820 We've received the statement that they offered to the committee this morning.

00:15:45.180 This is it in part via Kelly O'Donnell, the NBC.

00:15:49.280 The committee has sought testimony from Mr. Bernal for nearly two years without any actual

00:15:53.500 evidence of wrongdoing by Bernal.

00:15:55.540 Most recently, the committee seeks Bernal's testimony based on a purported controversy regarding

00:15:59.760 the use of the auto pen at the conclusion of President Biden's term.

00:16:02.760 President Biden has already confirmed that he personally made all decisions concerning

00:16:05.340 his grants of clemency.

00:16:07.120 Au contraire.

00:16:07.960 I think you're taking some liberties with the facts, Bernal's lawyers.

00:16:11.440 They say, while the committee only recently began its auto pen investigation, the chairman

00:16:15.100 has already declared that this matter is, quote, the biggest scandal in Oval Office

00:16:18.260 history, end quote.

00:16:19.820 In addition, on June 4th, 2025, this is the same memo that Dr. Kevin O'Connor cited.

00:16:24.160 The White House directed the Department of Justice to open a criminal investigation into

00:16:27.460 this matter.

00:16:28.260 The chairman has acknowledged that U.S. Attorney General Pam Bondi has announced an investigation

00:16:32.280 at DOJ.

00:16:33.700 So we're very interested.

00:16:34.960 That's quoting her.

00:16:35.640 Under these circumstances, it's entirely appropriate and justified for Bernal to invoke his rights

00:16:39.680 under the Fifth Amendment to the Constitution.

00:16:41.680 Blah, blah, blah, blah.

00:16:44.120 There we go.

00:16:44.800 And so he respectfully declines to answer any of the committee's questions in the deposition

00:16:49.620 today.

00:16:50.580 So that's where we stand.

00:16:51.960 That controversy goes on.

00:16:53.440 And all of this looms over the Democrats like pig pens dirt as he walks around the set

00:16:59.940 of peanuts.

00:17:00.760 Right.

00:17:01.080 It's just there lingering over anybody who's going to potentially run and, you know, throw

00:17:06.860 their hat in the ring for 2028.

00:17:08.320 Like you mentioned, Bashir, like he's definitely Bashir and all of them are going to get asked

00:17:12.400 about this.

00:17:12.900 And all prior statements where they defended Biden will be brought up.

00:17:16.420 The other person who's in the news this week as an obvious contender for the nomination

00:17:21.600 is Gavin Newsom, who went on Sean Ryan's podcast and absolutely dissembled over the question

00:17:32.200 of transition procedures and surgeries on minors as young as eight.

00:17:41.420 Listen to this.

00:17:42.700 What about for your values?

00:17:45.440 I mean, is eight years old too young?

00:17:47.900 Yeah.

00:17:48.200 I mean, look, I now that I have a nine year old just became nine.

00:17:54.060 Come on, man.

00:17:55.240 I get it.

00:17:56.880 So those are legit.

00:17:58.880 You know, it's it's interesting.

00:18:01.040 Just the issue of age.

00:18:03.040 I haven't as I and as someone that's been so focused on on equality, broadly LGBT rights,

00:18:14.300 particularly gay marriage.

00:18:15.820 The trans issue for me is also novel.

00:18:19.000 It's it's it's over the last few years.

00:18:21.760 I'm trying to understand as much as anyone else.

00:18:24.380 Whole pronoun thing.

00:18:25.800 Trying to understand all of that.

00:18:28.060 Well, you know, that was like the hell.

00:18:29.740 I mean, all that stuff.

00:18:30.860 I get it.

00:18:33.360 Oh, my God.

00:18:34.900 First of all, his hands are flailing.

00:18:36.460 He gets so nervous.

00:18:37.360 Yeah.

00:18:37.720 Stop moving his hands.

00:18:38.740 Right.

00:18:39.140 It's to tell I'm uncomfortable and I'm probably lying to hands above the midline moving is

00:18:43.600 can be a sign of deception.

00:18:46.360 He didn't.

00:18:46.840 I mean, come on, man.

00:18:48.400 I mean, I get it.

00:18:51.020 Those are legit.

00:18:52.540 Period.

00:18:53.800 The issue of age.

00:18:56.600 Um, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, and, um, you know, as someone who's been so focused on LGBT

00:19:03.340 and gay marriage, you know, the trans thing.

00:19:08.280 Um, I, I, I, I, I just like, I, I've been thinking about the pronouns.

00:19:13.660 Yeah.

00:19:14.640 That's how he answered that question, Rich.

00:19:16.740 Would you want, are you okay with surgical procedures on an eight year old?

00:19:20.320 Yeah.

00:19:20.740 It was a good answer in the sense that it kind of seemed as though he was acknowledging

00:19:24.540 it was a problem with like the, come on, man, I, I get it, but, but it led nowhere and he

00:19:29.720 didn't say it and he's clearly afraid to say it.

00:19:32.340 And this is a Democrat who showed a little more leg on this than other Democrats by at

00:19:36.160 least saying in that famous podcast with Charlie Kirk, that's unfair for males to compete against

00:19:41.060 females in sports, but he just, he can't just come out and say, no, of course it's wrong

00:19:45.440 for an eight year old.

00:19:46.320 Of course it's wrong.

00:19:47.540 Um, and this is another huge problem with, with, uh, for the party, right?

00:19:51.540 If, if there are two things I would advise them on, which would seem relatively easy.

00:19:55.440 One say Biden shouldn't have been running again and people should have blown the whistle

00:19:59.620 on it much earlier, bad on us.

00:20:02.180 And we're not going to do surgeries for minors and men shouldn't compete against female sports.

00:20:06.880 It's, it's, it's so easy.

00:20:08.620 It's so, it would, it would seem to be so easy, but people like Bashir and Newsom who

00:20:12.980 know much more about the democratic base than, than I do, apparently don't think it's easy.

00:20:17.900 They, they won't do it.

00:20:19.200 And they're clouding their chances with every mealy mouth answer.

00:20:24.820 Picture JD Vance in a presidential debate being asked that question or Marco Rubio for

00:20:30.100 that matter, or any of them.

00:20:31.220 But, but, you know, assuming for now that it's likely JD, he would be so eloquent.

00:20:35.940 He would be so reasonable.

00:20:36.980 He would be so measured and you're going to have that flailer with the hands and the stuttering

00:20:41.760 and the, come on, man, pulling the Joe Biden.

00:20:44.140 Come on, man.

00:20:44.980 It didn't work for Biden and it's not going to work for Newsom.

00:20:47.420 Like I'm just seeing the runway of how the Republicans chances are going to look.

00:20:52.220 And right now I'm feeling good, not necessarily about the midterms, but about the presidential

00:20:55.740 race.

00:20:56.180 Here's another thing.

00:20:57.160 It's a little off point on the trans issue, but a great moment where Sean asked Gavin Newsom

00:21:03.300 about why they were so able to very quickly clean up the city of San Francisco when Chinese

00:21:10.440 president Xi Jinping came in 2023 and hear his answer.

00:21:15.580 And then you can hear, um, how he answered it at the time when it came up.

00:21:20.660 Listen, you got a, you got a lot of shit when she came to California.

00:21:26.580 And you know, the, the, the big narrative was, and I tend to believe it is, you know, we hear

00:21:33.480 a lot about San Francisco and the homelessness and pooping on the road and all that kind of

00:21:39.720 stuff.

00:21:40.100 And, and, and it seemed like all of that was cleaned up when she came to town.

00:21:47.280 Yeah.

00:21:47.600 Is that true?

00:21:48.360 Complete bullshit.

00:21:49.480 That's complete bullshit.

00:21:50.580 I know folks say, oh, they're just cleaning up this place because all those fancy leaders

00:21:54.840 are coming into town.

00:21:56.280 Um, that's true because it's true.

00:22:03.320 I got to credit Morning Wire.

00:22:04.820 My pals over the Morning Wire who put that together, such a good catch that there's no room for

00:22:10.180 wiggle for wiggling.

00:22:11.580 It's diametrically opposed because he's getting a little closer to running.

00:22:16.600 Yeah.

00:22:17.200 I remember him saying that at the time, right?

00:22:20.620 It was a, it was a big deal.

00:22:21.660 We were all talking about it.

00:22:22.880 So clearly, you know, he hasn't forgotten.

00:22:25.000 He just thinks he needs to dissemble about it and be against poop on the sidewalks in

00:22:30.140 and of itself, whether, whether you're having a big high profile international event or not.

00:22:34.660 I guess this is moderation.

00:22:36.840 And, and, but like my, my point in showing this is really just to show, like, I think some

00:22:41.600 people have the impression Gavin Newsom is some formidable politician.

00:22:45.800 Um, you know, he, he looks the part, I'll grant him that, you know, he's, he's a relatively

00:22:50.040 handsome man.

00:22:50.860 There's no taking that away from him.

00:22:52.020 But as soon as he starts speaking, things change because he starts lying.

00:22:56.320 He starts obfuscating.

00:22:57.700 He has a tendency to say whatever the person across from him wants to hear.

00:23:02.140 And then just completely 180 on it in front of a different audience at a different point.

00:23:06.920 Yeah, that's, that's just one example there.

00:23:09.040 The Charlie Kirk example is another one because he tried to say to Charlie, oh, it's a question

00:23:12.680 of fairness for me on the boys and girls sports.

00:23:14.560 And then as soon as he got away from Charlie Kirk, he's like, yeah, I looked at, I couldn't

00:23:17.320 find an answer.

00:23:17.960 So I've moved on.

00:23:19.600 Um, okay.

00:23:20.040 So that's another reason to feel good about 2028, uh, for team GOP that the Democrat candidates

00:23:26.960 are not looking so great down more at the local level, staying on team blue, um, in

00:23:31.680 New York city, Mario's Cuomo's son, Andrew thinks he's Mario.

00:23:38.100 And that's a big mistake because Mario Cuomo was legitimately very popular in New York.

00:23:43.980 And that's why he made a credible run for president.

00:23:47.440 Andrew Cuomo has disgraced himself as a sex pest and the murderer of a bunch of elderly

00:23:55.120 people, um, to put it uncharitably because he's the one who ordered COVID positive patients

00:24:00.340 to go back into these nursing homes after having been warned that it would lead to the

00:24:03.520 death of the most vulnerable population in those nursing homes.

00:24:06.240 And he did it anyway, and that's never been fully addressed, but then he tried to lie

00:24:10.060 about the number of people who died all while he got $5 million to have his staff on taxpayer

00:24:14.860 money, write a book about how amazingly he handled COVID where we were all but in prison

00:24:19.080 for two years in New York.

00:24:20.400 I was there.

00:24:21.740 Okay.

00:24:22.620 So he's not popular.

00:24:24.700 He lost the democratic primary to this nutcase.

00:24:27.100 He's some mom, Dami, who's a socialist, a communist.

00:24:31.140 And now he's refusing to drop out saying, I'm going to run.

00:24:35.060 I'm going to run as an independent.

00:24:36.960 Well, that's the lane that Eric Adams, the sitting mayor of New York is running in.

00:24:41.160 And all of this sounds nuts, except when you look at the current polling, Cuomo would

00:24:46.920 beat mom, Dami in a race if it were just the two of them head to head.

00:24:52.580 So what do you make of all that?

00:24:53.820 Yeah, so the problem is that both Adams and Cuomo are more radioactive than the communist,

00:25:03.240 right?

00:25:03.440 They have higher negative and unfavorable ratings than the communist.

00:25:07.600 So if they have any chance of winning, excuse me, what they're going to have to do is discredit

00:25:12.860 Mom, Dami with Democrats.

00:25:15.060 Because the Democrat electorate, the electorate in a New York City election, about 70% Democrats.

00:25:20.900 So Mom, Dami just holds 25% of them.

00:25:23.400 He can lose a lot.

00:25:24.480 He's still going to win.

00:25:25.540 So you need to convince the average Democrat that this guy is going to make you lose your

00:25:30.760 job.

00:25:31.500 He's going to make your streets unsafe and that he's unacceptable.

00:25:34.880 And if you manage to do that, it's doable.

00:25:37.820 I'm not sure it's likelier than not, but it's doable.

00:25:40.280 Then one of them could surge, whether it's Cuomo or Adams, whoever's in second place,

00:25:46.100 and the others fall away.

00:25:48.220 So I think there's too much focus.

00:25:49.400 One, Cuomo thinks he's going to make himself likable by just going out and glad-handing

00:25:52.940 people in the streets.

00:25:53.960 I don't think that's going to happen.

00:25:55.460 And two, there has to be some sort of deal.

00:25:57.240 Don't touch me.

00:25:57.640 The focus has to be bringing Mom, Dami's ratings down, making him radioactive.

00:26:02.940 And then maybe a vista opens up where something's possible, where New York City can dodge this

00:26:06.820 bullet.

00:26:07.380 But I wouldn't bet on it.

00:26:08.380 I really think it's crazy not to be hitting Mom, Dami, Mom, Donnie over the head every

00:26:14.920 day with the law and order stuff.

00:26:17.260 He 100% was for defund the police.

00:26:20.540 When other Democrats said, when we say defund the police, we don't really mean defund the

00:26:26.200 police.

00:26:26.900 We mean transfer some money over to more social services type systems that could intervene in

00:26:32.480 other matters.

00:26:33.860 And he said, no, we mean defund the police.

00:26:36.760 And then as we get to know him better, clips keep resurfacing because in addition to being

00:26:41.200 a sex pest and a killer of elderly people, Andrew Cuomo has a very, very shitty oppo research

00:26:48.360 team that didn't find any of this stuff when he was running against him in the primary.

00:26:52.920 So here comes the following soundbite from 2020, where Mom, Dami seemed to be very, very

00:26:58.840 anti-cop and very, very pro some other third force on domestic violence incidents.

00:27:06.400 Take a listen here to SOT9.

00:27:08.060 Police do not create safety.

00:27:10.540 For many, many people across this city and this state, police actually create and amplify

00:27:15.460 violence.

00:27:16.500 And it is very important to speak about that reality that many people have because it pushes

00:27:22.280 up against the conventional understanding of police who are seen to be people who come

00:27:26.460 to resolve violence.

00:27:27.600 But I mean, you just look at the history of the NYPD and you see that we have invested

00:27:35.020 in a system that functions in many ways to punish poor black and brown people across this

00:27:43.420 city and across the state, frankly, across this country.

00:27:46.240 And there are so many responsibilities we have given to police that frankly should have nothing

00:27:52.100 to do with their departments.

00:27:53.320 A homeless person is on a train.

00:27:55.060 They do not need a stranger with a gun to come and resolve that situation.

00:28:00.040 You know, if somebody is jaywalking, if somebody is surviving, you know, going through domestic

00:28:04.940 violence, if there are so many different, different situations that would be far better handled

00:28:10.900 by people trained to deal with those specific situations as opposed to an individual with a gun.

00:28:17.380 So so what Nicole Brown Simpson really needed, Rich, was for some social worker to step in

00:28:26.080 and try to explain to OJ that it's not nice to nearly decapitate your ex-wife or maybe somebody

00:28:31.720 who would talk to him about centering his blackness that could have really brought out, you know,

00:28:36.780 some softer side of OJ in Momdami's world.

00:28:39.860 That's what they do.

00:28:40.800 This is absolutely absurd.

00:28:42.540 So women who are getting the shit kicked out of them by their husbands now are going to

00:28:46.780 have some sweet little social worker show up with her like knitted sweater to try to

00:28:51.420 talk the husband down off the ledge in Momdami's New York.

00:28:54.860 Yeah, totally preposterous.

00:28:56.680 One, you're right about Cuomo's oppo research in the primary.

00:28:59.460 There's a video like this literally every single day popping on X.

00:29:03.380 Where were they during the primary campaign?

00:29:06.000 And ordinary Democrats aren't anti-cop.

00:29:08.260 The activists and the ideologues and the progressive element of the Democratic Party,

00:29:13.940 like Momdami, are anti-cop.

00:29:16.440 But Eric Adams won the Democratic primary four years ago on a pro-police platform, a pro-law

00:29:22.140 and order platform.

00:29:23.860 And people in dangerous neighborhoods do not want the social worker showing up.

00:29:28.040 They want the guy with a gun on his hip and they want more of them and they want he or

00:29:33.220 she to get there faster than they do now.

00:29:35.640 So this is absolutely, you're absolutely right.

00:29:38.020 This is a huge opening and Cuomo or Adams or whoever wants to have some chance of stopping

00:29:43.820 this guy needs to just hammer it.

00:29:46.640 Especially because it is the communities of color, especially those in the more working

00:29:52.000 class and poor neighborhoods of New York who need cops more than anyone.

00:29:57.700 They need cops.

00:29:58.300 And only people who come from a very privileged background like Momdami don't understand that.

00:30:04.840 Yeah, probably never needed a police officer to help resolve a situation that was dangerous

00:30:11.560 or potentially dangerous in his life and probably never will, right?

00:30:15.140 But that's not the lived experience of a lot of New Yorkers.

00:30:18.180 And the crime that we read about in the New York Post and elsewhere that's so harrowing,

00:30:22.900 it's generally quite limited in several very specific neighborhoods.

00:30:28.060 So what you want to do is, you know, flood those places with cops and, you know, go specifically

00:30:34.140 after the gang members and the people have records, you know, are dangerous and you can

00:30:38.760 make the city a lot safer.

00:30:40.280 Rudy Giuliani proved this back in his day and it was popular.

00:30:43.480 No one wants to get shot.

00:30:45.020 No one wants to be fearful of getting shot.

00:30:47.160 No one wants to get harassed on the subways.

00:30:49.880 And the beginning of the answer, at least in terms of public policy terms, are more cops

00:30:55.060 and better cops.

00:30:56.920 My brother, Paul, was a lifelong cop, made it to lieutenant in Albany, New York.

00:31:02.200 He's retired now.

00:31:03.600 And do you know how many domestic violence calls he had to go out on and actually saved

00:31:07.940 women's lives?

00:31:08.920 This is in inner city Albany that these women are terrified and grateful to see the police

00:31:15.180 show up.

00:31:15.620 This is from the Free Beacon on what's happening in New York City in particular.

00:31:20.600 They write, NYPD recorded more than 110,000 domestic violence incidents in the city during

00:31:28.780 just 2024.

00:31:30.520 More than 110,000 were someone called the cops.

00:31:34.320 The four worst precincts for domestic violence, with more than 3,000 recorded incidents each,

00:31:40.980 were located in poor and heavily minority districts around East New York, Little Haiti,

00:31:47.180 the North Bronx, the South Bronx.

00:31:49.000 Listen to this.

00:31:50.300 Former NYPD homicide detective Pete Panuccio, who spent four decades with the department and

00:31:55.000 responded to hundreds of domestic violence incidents, called a lack of police involvement

00:31:58.900 quote, absolutely insane.

00:32:01.940 Homicide rates will increase.

00:32:05.000 Women, he writes, will be pulverized.

00:32:08.360 Women will be pulverized and homicide rates will increase under Mom Donnie.

00:32:13.440 That should be in ads that circulate nonstop in New York for these Upper West Side white liberal

00:32:21.440 women in their Lululemons who want to feel good about themselves by electing a communist

00:32:27.240 and will never have to worry about being one of the ones pulverized as a result of no cops.

00:32:33.800 Yeah, absolutely.

00:32:34.520 So we all fear random crime, but the greatest threat to a lot of people are people you know,

00:32:40.940 especially to women, right?

00:32:42.180 It's the abusive spouse.

00:32:43.580 It's the abusive boyfriend.

00:32:45.220 It's someone you split up from and is stalking you.

00:32:48.100 And you need law and order and the authorities to protect you from that person.

00:32:54.220 And Mom Donnie just isn't into this as an ideological matter, right?

00:32:58.580 He doesn't care about the evidence.

00:33:00.840 Yeah.

00:33:01.260 The other thing that just occurred to me, sorry to interrupt you, is 99% of the social workers

00:33:07.800 are female.

00:33:09.540 They're all female.

00:33:10.840 They just are.

00:33:12.400 Women have tons of empathy.

00:33:13.880 Women are naturally attracted to that line of work.

00:33:16.040 And a lot of them are middle-aged or older.

00:33:19.160 And I wouldn't say in my experience, having met with a lot of them over the course of

00:33:22.820 my career, that they tend to be like the super fit.

00:33:25.960 So you're going to send these like middle-aged women into these dangerous neighborhoods where

00:33:31.660 a man is beating the hell out of his wife and you're going to have her try to stop it.

00:33:36.580 Take a guess what's going to happen.

00:33:38.160 Okay.

00:33:38.380 Because unlike Mom Donnie, I've actually interviewed countless numbers of domestic violence victims.

00:33:44.900 And it can happen across sociological spectrum.

00:33:47.520 It can happen to rich women.

00:33:48.840 It can happen to poor women.

00:33:50.400 But in every case, it's happening at the hands of a man who's extremely controlling and extremely

00:33:55.220 dangerous and could not be talked off the ledge by the person he's supposed to love any more

00:34:00.780 than anyone else in the world.

00:34:02.060 And the notion that you could send some third party, likely female, into that situation to

00:34:07.420 diffuse it is absolutely insane.

00:34:10.400 The only person who can diffuse it is a guy with a gun and a badge who can put that guy

00:34:16.900 behind bars.

00:34:17.640 And even then, sometimes they don't stop.

00:34:21.420 Yeah.

00:34:21.840 And sometimes though, right, all you need is the big guy with the gun to show up.

00:34:26.560 And that diffuses the situation.

00:34:28.380 But these wouldn't be situations if the party who is bigger and stronger is not in a rage,

00:34:34.620 right?

00:34:35.340 Perhaps a violent rage, perhaps even a homicidal rage.

00:34:38.820 And that's just not the context for social work, right?

00:34:42.080 If you need marriage counseling, you need advice on why your kid's fluent and doesn't like going

00:34:45.500 to school, whatever, there is a reason to have social workers.

00:34:49.320 I don't have anything against all social workers.

00:34:51.000 My mom was in social work.

00:34:52.640 Obviously, it plays for it.

00:34:53.840 But she wasn't showing up in violent households at the cusp of what might perhaps be a violent

00:34:59.560 event.

00:35:00.980 That's crazy.

00:35:01.960 And by the way, you know, hello, P. Diddy's defense team, Zoran Mamdani.

00:35:08.560 They're the ones who just made this argument that like domestic violence is different than

00:35:13.700 criminality.

00:35:14.420 Beating the daylights out of your wife is criminal.

00:35:20.080 You do need a cop.

00:35:21.840 It is not like jaywalking, you absolute fool.

00:35:25.540 I can't believe good friends of mine are going to be living in this city.

00:35:28.720 Thank God we got out and moved to Connecticut and in danger now at the hands of this lunatic.

00:35:33.440 Forget the economics of his policies, which I do also want to hit on here.

00:35:38.060 Before I move on to why our friend Andrew Schultz, comedian, just great guy, loves Mamdani,

00:35:45.300 and I think it's more the economic policies.

00:35:47.360 I think Andrew's more Democrat leaning anyway, but meandered over to the Trump field in the

00:35:52.120 last election like a lot of even lefties did.

00:35:54.860 I do want to spend one more minute on sort of identity, the obsession with identity over

00:35:59.360 on Team Blue because there was an extraordinary moment on CNN with Anna Navarro, who's constantly

00:36:05.540 making inappropriate race comments, like racist comments, and they're having a debate over

00:36:10.880 Trump's immigration policies and the ICE raids and how he's rounding up people.

00:36:14.360 And now there's a federal district court judge who said you can't take into account whether

00:36:17.500 a person is speaking Spanish or is at a day labor camp.

00:36:22.640 You can't like you can't consider any of these things when you're trying to find people who

00:36:25.920 are here illegally.

00:36:27.080 Anyway, they're having a debate about this.

00:36:28.500 And Brad Palumbo's on the set.

00:36:30.140 He's the co-founder of something called Based Politics.

00:36:32.240 He happens to be a white man.

00:36:34.640 And the following extraordinary exchange took place.

00:36:37.420 Take a listen.

00:36:37.880 SOT 8.

00:36:39.100 Millions of people out there protesting in small cities and big cities, from small protests

00:36:44.760 and huge protests, defying the fear, defying the reign of terror and retribution that Donald

00:36:52.740 Trump is trying to impose on America.

00:36:56.240 I think you're definitely being hyperbolic.

00:36:58.360 You talk about a reign of terror when the doomsday alarm from Democrats or from media

00:37:03.620 critics is always at a 10.

00:37:05.540 It doesn't hit the same.

00:37:06.780 I want to respond to you saying that I was hyperbolic when I talked about a reign of terror.

00:37:11.060 That is hyperbolic.

00:37:11.880 No, it might be hyperbolic for you as a white man.

00:37:14.920 Oh, OK.

00:37:15.520 It's certainly not hyperbolic for me as a Latino.

00:37:18.060 No, I'm not.

00:37:19.100 You're being a white man as an insult.

00:37:20.680 When you invoke it to dismiss my...

00:37:22.260 Being a white man as an insult.

00:37:23.700 When you invoke it...

00:37:24.500 Are you...

00:37:24.920 But I just want to make a point that, Brad, all she's saying is that her view of the situation

00:37:29.860 is different from yours.

00:37:31.240 I don't think that's an insult.

00:37:32.440 She basically said, I'm wrong because I'm a white man.

00:37:34.380 No, no, no.

00:37:34.400 She just said, she said, I see it differently from you, which is not an insult.

00:37:38.620 It's not...

00:37:39.060 And it's also not a racial insult.

00:37:40.380 It's also not...

00:37:41.060 Unbelievable.

00:37:43.380 Unbelievable it was said.

00:37:44.600 And then Abby Phillip allowed it and defended it.

00:37:48.520 Incredible, right?

00:37:49.140 Yeah.

00:37:49.600 What a dereliction of duty as the anchor, first of all.

00:37:51.960 And he was 100% right to call her out.

00:37:54.660 I don't know if it matters, but Brad also happens to be gay.

00:37:56.960 So he checks some minority boxes.

00:37:59.000 Abby Phillip should be interested in defending him to the extent it was necessary, though

00:38:02.180 he was raising exactly the right point.

00:38:04.100 Now, how dare she allow that to happen on her set?

00:38:06.400 And how dare they keep booking Anna Navarro, whose bread and butter is comments like this?

00:38:11.960 Yeah.

00:38:12.380 So where to start on this?

00:38:14.340 There's so much to it.

00:38:15.500 One, the idea of a reign of terror is obviously absurd, right?

00:38:18.780 But anyone can have their opinion about immigration enforcement.

00:38:21.740 Anyone with any color, any creed, any gender should be able to have an opinion about immigration

00:38:26.520 enforcement.

00:38:27.000 And he was challenging hers.

00:38:29.240 And her argument, basically, was that this was her view, and she has unique insight into

00:38:34.220 it as a brown person.

00:38:35.540 She refers to the brown community.

00:38:37.560 What is the brown community?

00:38:38.780 What's that?

00:38:39.680 There's no such thing as a brown community.

00:38:41.840 There's no such thing as a white community.

00:38:43.480 And they're so into this idea of communities that don't exist.

00:38:47.580 There's no LGBTQ plus community.

00:38:51.200 The harshest people, some of the harshest critiques I've heard of lesbians have been by

00:38:54.860 gay men, you know, and a lot of gay and lesbian people don't like the whole trans thing.

00:38:58.500 And even if they're all on board, you know, that part elements of that agenda, some of

00:39:02.860 them are Republicans, some of them are Democrats, some of them are Catholics, some of them are,

00:39:05.940 there's no community.

00:39:07.140 They don't live all in one big neighborhood and get together for block parties.

00:39:10.440 It's absurd.

00:39:11.780 And if you just turn it around and would have, and if Brad had rejoined her, well, you just

00:39:18.340 think that about the reign of terror because you're a Latina, right?

00:39:21.340 He would have been escorted from the show, escorted out of the building, and never heard

00:39:26.740 from again on CNN.

00:39:28.940 And by the way, not for nothing, but even if she wanted to make this argument about how

00:39:33.140 most of the people who are getting rounded up happen to have brown skin, most of them

00:39:37.580 are also male.

00:39:38.140 So how does his maleness disqualify him from not saying this is a reign of terror?

00:39:43.240 That's their knee jerk.

00:39:44.720 You lose your right to speak in the world of Ana Navarro if you are a white male, because

00:39:51.100 you're a sin.

00:39:52.460 Your existence is a sin.

00:39:54.540 You were born with the sin.

00:39:55.680 You can't recover from the sin.

00:39:57.380 You shouldn't even be at the table commenting to her.

00:40:00.040 And frankly, I think Abby Phillip shares that view.

00:40:03.600 She's been, for the first couple of years she was on the air, she hid what's obviously her

00:40:07.520 racism, but as she gets out there more and more and more, it's coming out more frequently.

00:40:12.820 She's a problem for CNN.

00:40:14.500 It's very clear.

00:40:15.860 Okay.

00:40:16.380 I find a show unwashable, but everyone ends up talking about the clips.

00:40:21.660 It's only usually because of Scott Jennings, because he's great.

00:40:24.440 And then occasionally just absolute lunacy, like we just saw there, but no one's watching

00:40:28.720 it like, hey, I'm really learning something.

00:40:30.120 This is actually a really good program.

00:40:31.580 Not at all.

00:40:32.380 You know, it's like a hate watch and like WTF.

00:40:35.900 Back on the subject of Donnie, I want to show you this clip from Andrew Schultz because

00:40:41.640 it hits on a couple of things that I want to talk to you about politically.

00:40:44.180 It's SOT 10.

00:40:47.480 The only party right now that to me seems America first is the Democrat Socialist Party.

00:40:56.340 Bernie is America first.

00:40:59.380 Momdani and all his ideas that he will not be able to execute, and I frankly think many

00:41:03.340 of them are not good ideas, but he is no doubt New York first.

00:41:07.760 The policies seem to want to help people here.

00:41:11.060 That's what I care about.

00:41:12.160 If MAGA wants to take this America first thing back, they got to start looking out for

00:41:16.040 America, and it doesn't seem like they're doing it.

00:41:17.320 Lying to Americans is not America first.

00:41:19.200 There is one lie, which is Epstein did not have a blackmail ring on all these very influential

00:41:25.320 people, and by saying that that didn't happen, you have to tell a lot of other little lies.

00:41:29.900 Every one of them just pulls a little piece of thread away from the fabric, and we're starting

00:41:34.020 to see right through right now, and it's just embarrassing.

00:41:38.920 It's very interesting.

00:41:39.980 So that's a guy who I've interviewed him many times.

00:41:43.920 I think he's an independent, but though he's been a registered Democrat for most of his

00:41:47.260 life, he comes from a family of Democrats, though he was supportive of Trump and voted

00:41:51.280 Trump this last election, who now you hear him, he's attracted by some of the things that

00:41:56.900 Momdani is saying.

00:41:58.360 And I've heard Andrew and others like him politically talk about that debate in New York City where

00:42:04.260 the question by the moderator was, which country would you visit first as New York City mayor?

00:42:09.380 And they all said Israel.

00:42:11.160 And Momdani said, I'm not really interested in visiting any country.

00:42:15.000 I'm going to stay in New York, which was a great answer.

00:42:16.960 I have to say.

00:42:17.520 That was the answer, yeah.

00:42:18.360 But there is a belief in some circles that you're not electable Democrat or Republican

00:42:25.560 unless you do a genuflection toward Israel and you send all the right signals on how

00:42:29.020 you're going to be pro-Israel, and Momdani didn't do it.

00:42:32.000 I mean, I think there are reasons for that.

00:42:33.640 But separate and apart from those reasons, it was the right answer to say, I'm the mayor

00:42:36.900 of New York.

00:42:37.340 Why are you asking me about going to travel to foreign countries?

00:42:39.740 So I think all that's playing in on his like, I'm looking at that guy.

00:42:46.980 And then on top of it comes the Epstein scandal, whatever you want to call it, which is affecting

00:42:52.540 Trump supporters, both in that middle ground and on the diehard right to within the core

00:42:59.140 MAGA movement.

00:42:59.840 I would say like the more national review types of the Republican Party have not been big

00:43:04.600 into the Epstein scandal.

00:43:05.800 Well, we haven't covered it that much here on the Megyn Kelly show over the past six years.

00:43:10.160 We've been covering it more this past couple of, what, 10 days because it became a political

00:43:13.840 scandal.

00:43:15.400 But there is a very loud piece of MAGA right now that is really outraged over how this

00:43:21.000 is being handled.

00:43:21.940 And we'll get to what Trump said this morning after you react to those points.

00:43:26.360 Yeah.

00:43:26.920 So on the clip, one, when he talks about Bernie Sanders being America first, there was a time

00:43:32.180 when Bernie was kind of an American first socialist.

00:43:34.960 He had this famous exchange with Ezra Klein, I don't know, maybe it was 10 years ago now,

00:43:39.080 the New York Times, where Klein is like, you like poor people, right?

00:43:42.800 So yeah, I do.

00:43:44.120 You want to help poor people, right?

00:43:45.700 Yeah, I do.

00:43:46.520 So then what we should do is let in all these poor people from other countries in the United

00:43:50.060 States who are really poor, and then they'll be better off when they're here.

00:43:53.420 But he's like, no, no, no, I don't favor that.

00:43:55.760 That'd be crazy.

00:43:56.560 That hurt America.

00:43:58.120 I'm about helping American working people.

00:44:00.700 And the reaction on the left was such that Bernie backed off.

00:44:04.140 Now he's kind of a cosmopolitan socialist when he used to be kind of a nationalistic socialist.

00:44:09.300 And on Mom Domini, I will say this about him.

00:44:11.880 The theme of affordability is not inherently a socialist theme.

00:44:15.820 And it was an excellent theme because New York City is insanely expensive and is getting

00:44:20.940 more so all the time.

00:44:22.600 I think rents on average went up like 16% last year.

00:44:25.840 That's crazy.

00:44:26.900 The problem is his answers are wrong, right?

00:44:30.660 And you have these problems in New York because it's already embraced socialistic policies.

00:44:34.420 And he's coming in saying, well, we got these problems because of socialism.

00:44:37.560 And what we need is more socialism, which doesn't make sense.

00:44:40.360 And it'll be a disaster.

00:44:41.800 And I do think it's interesting how to pick up the Epstein thing.

00:44:45.080 This is now being picked up, not just by influencers' voices like that, but by the mainstream media

00:44:51.300 and by Democrats.

00:44:52.620 At the same time, it's not going away on the right.

00:44:56.140 But you have Charlie Kirk saying, I'm just not going to talk about it anymore.

00:45:00.260 So it wouldn't shock me if three weeks from now, it's kind of diminished more on the right

00:45:07.160 and picked up more from those other sources.

00:45:11.040 Mm-hmm.

00:45:13.260 So Trump gets out there.

00:45:15.900 I don't actually know what Trump is doing with his messaging because last night I watched the

00:45:22.880 Bret Baier, the top of his show, and he ran a long report on Epstein and the scandal and the

00:45:29.040 MAGA infighting.

00:45:30.380 And he ran a soundbite of Trump last night, which we have, where he's saying we, I think we have it.

00:45:38.800 Yeah.

00:45:39.420 Yeah, yeah.

00:45:39.760 I think it's in Sat One, where he says he's fine with having Pam Bondi release more materials

00:45:46.820 that she deems releasable.

00:45:48.460 Here it is in Sat One.

00:45:50.260 Your daughter-in-law said that there should be transparency in the Epstein case.

00:45:55.120 Do you agree with her, sir?

00:45:56.800 The attorney general has handled that very well.

00:46:00.220 She's really done a very good job.

00:46:03.800 And I think that when you look at it, you'll understand that.

00:46:06.580 I would like to see that also.

00:46:09.180 But I think the attorney general, the credibility is very important.

00:46:13.020 And you want credible evidence for something like that.

00:46:16.060 And I think the attorney general has handled it very well.

00:46:20.180 Okay, that wasn't on there.

00:46:21.920 But he does say the credible part in here is that this is later that day, Sat Six.

00:46:27.160 Mr. President, I know you've urged people to move on, but I'm curious, why do you think your supporters in particular have been so interested in the Epstein story and so upset about how it's been handled?

00:46:38.060 I don't understand why they would be so interested in it.

00:46:41.600 He's dead for a long time.

00:46:44.020 He was never a big factor in terms of life.

00:46:48.260 I don't understand what the interest or what the fascination is.

00:46:52.200 I really don't.

00:46:53.480 And the credible information has been given.

00:46:56.740 Don't forget, we went through years of the Mueller witch hunt and all of the different things, the Steele dossier, which was all fake.

00:47:04.420 All that information was fake.

00:47:06.440 But I don't understand why the Jeffrey Epstein case would be of interest to anybody.

00:47:11.440 It's pretty boring stuff.

00:47:13.040 It's sorted, but it's boring.

00:47:14.480 And I don't understand why it keeps going.

00:47:18.500 I think really only pretty bad people, including fake news, want to keep something like that going.

00:47:25.540 But credible information, let them give it.

00:47:28.260 Anything that's credible, I would say let them have it.

00:47:33.400 OK, so last night, yesterday, that was late Tuesday.

00:47:37.400 Let's let them have it.

00:47:38.620 If there's more credible information, she can release it.

00:47:40.620 Now, he was full of insults for the people who are still interested in Epstein.

00:47:44.480 But then this morning, he sends out a truth social that was just a barn burner of a post that reads in part – OK, hold on.

00:47:55.080 Let me get it here.

00:47:56.260 It's long.

00:47:57.180 I'm not going to read the whole thing.

00:47:58.420 First, it starts off with how the radical left Democrats have hit pay dirt again, just like with the fake and fully discredited Steele dossier, the lying 51 intelligence agents, the laptop from hell, blah, blah, blah.

00:48:09.700 A totally fake in makeup story used in order to hide crooked Hillary Clinton's big loss in the 2016 presidential election.

00:48:17.180 These scams and hoaxes are all the Democrats are good at.

00:48:20.380 It's all they have.

00:48:21.120 OK, and then they say – he says their new scam is what we will forever call the Jeffrey Epstein hoax, the Democrats' new scam.

00:48:30.440 I mean, this is more of a Republican issue.

00:48:32.320 The Democrats are now piling on.

00:48:33.640 But he says this is a Democrat news scam in what we will forever call the Jeffrey Epstein hoax, and my past, in all caps, supporters have bought into this bullshit, quoting here, hook, line, and sinker.

00:48:47.020 But they haven't learned their lesson and probably never will, even after being conned by the lunatic left for eight long years.

00:48:53.520 I've had more success in six months than perhaps any president in our country's history, and all these people want to talk about, with strong prodding by the fake news and the success-starved Dems, is the Jeffrey Epstein hoax.

00:49:05.600 Let these weaklings continue forward and do the Democrats' work.

00:49:09.520 Don't even think about talking of our incredible and unprecedented success, because I don't want their support anymore.

00:49:16.120 Thank you for your attention to this matter.

00:49:17.920 Make America great again.

00:49:19.260 And so what we've seen sort of in the past couple of days is Trump has managed to call large portions of the MAGA base that are still interested in Epstein and want answers, selfish, weaklings, he doesn't want their support, and that they're believing in a Democrat-created hoax.

00:49:35.900 There's all sorts of substantive responses to that on the Epstein merits, but I'm not interested in that for now.

00:49:41.060 I'm interested in the politics of it, Rich.

00:49:42.840 Yeah, so he's in the phase he often is in when he's in the midst of these controversies.

00:49:50.340 I think spaghetti against the wall phase, and then he'll see what sticks and then go with that.

00:49:56.320 But I don't think it's a great idea to make the connection to the Russia hoax, which was about him.

00:50:02.360 So this kind of implies that this also is about him.

00:50:06.740 I don't think it really is.

00:50:08.980 And the idea that he doesn't know where this is coming from, and it was all created by Democrats, this has been more of a matter of interest for the right, including the highest officials in his Justice Department, right?

00:50:22.780 Pam Bondi talked about it.

00:50:24.500 Kash Patel talked about it.

00:50:25.920 Bongino talked about it.

00:50:27.640 Now, Patel and Bongino, yeah, I give them a little leeway because, you know, Bongino was a podcaster, and Patel was kind of a figure.

00:50:37.200 They didn't talk about it the same way once they were in office.

00:50:40.600 It's Pam Bondi, who is a sitting attorney general of the United States, handed out these ridiculous, bogus binders in a stupid act of pandering.

00:50:51.700 You know, these poor influencers, they held them up like they had, you know, finally had the holy tablets.

00:50:56.520 Of course, when they look through it, they realize it's all older, redacted, and completely worthless, and then seem to suggest, you know, she's wiggled out, tries to wiggle out of it, but seem to suggest she had a client list on her desk, on her desk.

00:51:09.940 And then she, you know, everyone wants it to go away when she turns around a month or two later and says, oh, forget it.

00:51:14.980 You know, so I understand the questions about this, but I, you know, and as you put it, she either was lying then, right, when she said that had the client list or is lying now when she says there's no client list.

00:51:29.200 I take the first option.

00:51:30.360 I think it was a stupid act of pandering, and she got wrapped around the axle on this thing, but she should, tomorrow, she should do a press conference, and it should be a till the last dog die kind of press conference.

00:51:46.260 Everyone can come in.

00:51:47.340 We're credentialing everyone.

00:51:48.680 I don't know.

00:51:49.160 I don't care who you are or what outlet you're from, and I'll answer every single question about it.

00:51:54.620 And this is why the conclusion that we've come to, and if there are other things that can be released, as you know, and as I've discussed on the show, you know, the Epstein files makes it sound as it's like a file cabinet in the corner of her office, and she has one of those little file cabinet keys, and she can open it and take out the 10 manila folders with the Epstein files.

00:52:14.600 It's a vast investigative record, and surely more can be released than has been released.

00:52:19.620 Surely there's some things, you know, grand jury secrecy and the rest that should stay, shouldn't be disclosed, but surely there's more to disclose.

00:52:27.440 You know more about it than I do since I'm a National Review type, but we haven't seen the autopsy, right?

00:52:32.760 Have we seen the actual report on why they've concluded it's a suicide?

00:52:38.120 We've heard from the medical examiner, for sure.

00:52:40.320 I'm very well aware of what she found and why she found it, but I don't know that we have the actual paper.

00:52:44.880 Could be, and I just haven't seen it.

00:52:46.800 Why not?

00:52:47.420 Here's the problem.

00:52:48.180 There's a middle ground here that I keep trying to remind people of.

00:52:54.860 You know, I don't believe that there's a massive pedophile ring that's being covered up, though, you know, stranger things have happened.

00:53:02.540 I don't believe Trump did anything terrible that's in there that he's trying to hide, though it is possible that somebody made some scurrilous allegations against him,

00:53:09.740 because that's happened on the record, you know, outside of the Epstein case, so would I be shocked if somebody did it?

00:53:14.420 No, I wouldn't.

00:53:15.200 I believe, though, that there might be some names in there who are politically connected to Team Blue and Team Red,

00:53:22.520 and neither side has a great interest in sort of hanging those people out to dry,

00:53:26.320 and those people would be the kind of people making calls being like, would really appreciate it if you didn't do this,

00:53:31.700 and maybe their donor, the donors are important enough that they're listening.

00:53:35.960 That's a possibility.

00:53:36.880 I'm just throwing that out there.

00:53:37.700 But I think the way this needs to be handled, like any scandal, any potential scandal is, you get out early.

00:53:45.720 You get out loudly.

00:53:47.140 You open up all the coffers and say, come on in, take a look.

00:53:52.060 This is everything we know.

00:53:53.740 You know, this is everything we're going to give you.

00:53:55.280 Because now we're in a situation where even if Pam Bondi, I have to be fair to the administration,

00:54:00.460 even if she does come on, I've asked her for an interview to come on this show or gives a presser or cash and Dan Joyner,

00:54:06.200 even if that happens, people who are really dug in on this are probably always at this point going to say, I don't believe it.

00:54:13.480 You know, once you're dug in on something, it's almost unwinnable for Trump at this point.

00:54:20.100 Yeah, someone's reminded me of the old joke a little while ago.

00:54:24.760 Guy dies, goes to heavens at the pearly gates.

00:54:27.060 God said, you know, ask me any questions.

00:54:28.840 You know, I'm happy to answer anything now.

00:54:30.800 He's like, what happened with the Kennedy assassination?

00:54:34.020 And God says, Lee Harvey Oswald did it.

00:54:36.140 I didn't know.

00:54:37.360 I didn't know it went this high up.

00:54:38.880 The conspiracy is this far reaching.

00:54:40.960 So there are some people that that's where they are on this and there's going to be no way to satisfy them.

00:54:45.960 Plus, look, it's how did he get his money?

00:54:48.880 I don't think we'll ever know.

00:54:50.220 Right.

00:54:50.540 And we're denied the sense of closure by his death in jail.

00:54:53.700 I think he committed suicide, but they should try to be as disclosive as they reasonably can without breaking any rules and disclosing things that our system says should be secret and upfront about it.

00:55:10.820 And I think part of the problem here, frankly, I think she's –

00:55:13.820 But what happens now, Rich?

00:55:15.540 Yeah, you – go ahead.

00:55:16.400 Finish your point.

00:55:17.240 I was going to say, I just – I think Bondi is his weakest major cabinet pick.

00:55:23.020 I understand why he wants her there.

00:55:24.580 She's confirmed, right?

00:55:25.740 It's hard to get someone confirmed.

00:55:26.860 I'm sure he likes her, and he'll do whatever he wants basically.

00:55:30.000 So, you know, it's all good as far as he's concerned.

00:55:32.720 But I don't think this press conference, hypothetical press conference, I just meant – I don't think she can do it.

00:55:36.880 I don't think she'd pull it off very well.

00:55:38.320 I think there'd be more questions left – you know, more questions afterwards than you were when you began.

00:55:44.440 She just – she's handed this totally incompetently because I'm not sure she's that competent.

00:55:49.100 So, look, I think they're going to release more.

00:55:50.920 I think they have to.

00:55:51.660 I think transparency is, like, the go-to for everyone here in this kind of situation.

00:55:55.840 Mike Johnson was saying release everything with Benny Johnson the other day.

00:56:00.920 So, I think they'll release more, but I don't think they're ever going to satisfy a lot of people because, one, I don't think they can be satisfied, and I just – I'm not sure how much of the total record can be released.

00:56:13.940 Here is Speaker Johnson on Benny's show yesterday, SOT 7.

00:56:18.500 I mean, it's a very delicate subject, but we should put everything out there and let the people decide it.

00:56:24.660 I mean, the White House and the White House team are privy to facts that I don't know.

00:56:28.640 I mean, this isn't my lane.

00:56:29.900 I haven't been involved in that.

00:56:31.360 But I agree with the sentiment that we need to put it out there.

00:56:35.120 And, you know, Pam Bondi, I don't know when she originally made the statement.

00:56:40.000 I think she was talking about documents.

00:56:41.400 As I understood that they were on her desk.

00:56:43.100 I don't know that she was specific about a list or whatever.

00:56:45.140 But she needs to come forward and explain that to everybody.

00:56:49.140 I like Pam.

00:56:49.840 I mean, I think she's done a good job.

00:56:51.320 We need the DOJ focusing on the major priorities.

00:56:53.980 So, let's get this thing resolved.

00:56:56.400 Yeah, just put it in the rearview.

00:56:57.820 I think that's what many and probably most Republicans would very much like, including yours truly.

00:57:03.160 Just put it in the rearview.

00:57:04.320 Just put it to bed.

00:57:05.580 Who wants to spend the next three and a half years obsessing over Jeffrey Epstein?

00:57:09.800 Not me.

00:57:11.060 And so, what they really need to do now is figure out how to put it to bed.

00:57:15.220 I do think a Pam Bondi, maybe a Folden, Todd Blanche.

00:57:18.940 He could probably do it.

00:57:20.140 The two of them together.

00:57:21.660 Maybe you bring over a Cash or a Dan.

00:57:23.460 So, it's like United Front and Cormaga has somebody there who they really do trust.

00:57:28.260 I don't know.

00:57:29.200 But what President Trump is doing is trying to, you know, he understands strength and he understands how to, like, completely overpower people.

00:57:36.300 And he's using those powers to try to stop the conversation.

00:57:40.700 But I think he's also risking some alienation of some key supporters.

00:57:44.980 We kicked it off of that Andrew Schultz soundbite.

00:57:47.480 But you can't, I don't think it's a good idea, even for Trump, to look at his supporters and say, you're selfish and you're weakly.

00:57:53.600 And I don't want your support if you're so interested in this.

00:57:57.260 He's overly dismissive, right?

00:57:59.100 But this is his MO, right?

00:58:00.940 It's a bulldozer all the time.

00:58:03.300 And usually it's worked out for him.

00:58:05.000 So, you understand him going there.

00:58:06.840 And also understand the frustration.

00:58:08.220 I mean, this has been, like, a historic month.

00:58:10.660 A historic month in terms of his presidency and whatever, what he's been able to get done.

00:58:16.600 And to have, after all this stuff has happened, to be talking about this has to be immensely frustrating.

00:58:22.800 Who does he have to thank for that?

00:58:25.080 Pam Bondi, who put out that stupid memo.

00:58:27.820 Like, why didn't she?

00:58:28.660 I'm with you.

00:58:29.100 Why did it have to come out now?

00:58:30.420 Why didn't she?

00:58:31.160 Like, what was the rush to get that out two Sundays ago?

00:58:35.740 I don't get it.

00:58:36.340 She did step on a lot of his big accomplishments.

00:58:38.700 I just don't think Pam Bondi's going to recover from this very easily.

00:58:42.620 She needs to save herself by some sort of a massive sit-down or presser.

00:58:46.160 Although Trump still is in her corner.

00:58:47.620 That's very clear.

00:58:48.280 Here he is moments ago in the Oval.

00:58:51.540 Watch.

00:58:51.800 I really think that she's done very good.

00:58:55.420 She says, I gave you all the credible information.

00:58:59.280 And if she finds any more credible information, she'll give that, too.

00:59:02.680 What more can she do than that?

00:59:04.440 I mean, honestly, what more can she do?

00:59:06.360 And we do have bigger problems.

00:59:08.520 You know, we have problems with millions of illegal people that came in here and they're

00:59:13.380 killers and murderers.

00:59:14.480 We have 11,888 murderers that were allowed into our country by Biden.

00:59:20.240 Sleepy Joe Biden.

00:59:21.380 Stupid Joe Biden.

00:59:25.640 Okay.

00:59:26.460 She's got the president in her corner.

00:59:29.260 But I do think she's hurting him now.

00:59:32.260 Now, like, she's crossed over into political liability and that has to be rectified someplace.

00:59:37.200 Put apart whether you're into Epstein or you're not.

00:59:39.620 Put that to the side.

00:59:41.340 We're just talking politics here.

00:59:43.380 She's been dinged up severely and she's leading him to get, you know, in controversy.

00:59:50.480 He's got it.

00:59:51.520 Which I don't think any of his supporters want to see.

00:59:54.420 Right.

00:59:54.580 Yeah.

00:59:54.900 Yeah.

00:59:55.080 Which nobody wants to see.

00:59:56.260 But why doesn't he just let her twist in the wind and put her out there to press her?

01:00:00.300 And then he's kind of washed his hands of it.

01:00:03.600 Yeah.

01:00:04.580 The problem is, if I'm right, the presser wouldn't go well.

01:00:07.660 And who knows?

01:00:08.060 Maybe I'm wrong and I've been very wrong before.

01:00:11.060 There's just more fuel on the fire.

01:00:13.580 So the problem is maybe that she messed it up and she herself might not be capable of

01:00:19.960 fixing it.

01:00:20.620 So she is just twisting out there in the wind.

01:00:24.680 Well, they're banking on, you know, enough time passing that it'll go away.

01:00:28.140 However, I, you know, Laura Trump said two nights ago that they are going to release

01:00:33.340 more.

01:00:33.860 You heard Trump say Bondi will release more to the extent she can.

01:00:37.060 It's not confidential.

01:00:37.960 So right now they're both saying we'll release more and also fuck off.

01:00:42.520 So yeah, that's where we are.

01:00:46.240 We've been through this like a hundred times where there's some controversy.

01:00:49.340 There's some fix that Trump is in.

01:00:51.120 It's like impossible to see how he gets out of it or how it's going to end.

01:00:54.180 And it seems like it's going to be a long lasting.

01:00:55.620 Then it always ends and he always gets out of it.

01:00:57.860 Yeah, this is a little different, right?

01:00:58.840 Because obviously it's a base pushing it rather than CBS news or whatever.

01:01:02.920 But, but there just seems an expiration date on every Trump controversy, no matter what.

01:01:08.520 Yeah, I think that's right.

01:01:09.680 I mean, I just think like Trump is doing too many great things for this to remain the dominant

01:01:12.860 news headline and that's appropriate.

01:01:14.740 I mean, there's always going to be curiosity with it.

01:01:16.620 It's now going to be like a JFK, you know, mystery that people always harken back to.

01:01:21.680 The only question is when does this acute chapter of pain close and end and everybody in the

01:01:27.280 news at least moves on so that we can start talking about other things.

01:01:30.340 I think, you know, we're probably already getting there, but Trump could certainly hurry that

01:01:33.620 along and stop the bleeding by, by putting her out there or doing something to be a little

01:01:38.860 bit more transparent, not, notwithstanding the fact that you'll always have people who

01:01:41.780 will say not enough.

01:01:43.240 I still don't believe, but I think there's a huge faction that actually would accept that.

01:01:46.860 But we'll see.

01:01:48.160 All right.

01:01:48.440 I want to ask you about Ukraine and Trump because it's pretty remarkable what what's

01:01:52.520 going on right now.

01:01:53.280 Trump, when he was running for office, said, I'll get that war settled in a day.

01:01:57.240 He wasn't able to get that war settled in a day.

01:01:59.000 He later said I was being facetious, obviously, but he genuinely wants it to stop.

01:02:03.580 I mean, I truly think Trump loathes war in a uniquely special way.

01:02:08.600 And now he's sort of reopened the spigot of arms to Ukraine via NATO by like providing

01:02:18.380 them to NATO and then they'll provide them to Ukraine, which is a little less exposure

01:02:23.160 for the United States and rather than it just being us versus another nuclear power.

01:02:28.200 And I think like I'm giving I was giving this speech out here in Vail and a lot of Republicans

01:02:32.700 there and somebody was saying, has he betrayed us?

01:02:35.900 Like, does it does he not understand that the base elected him to be, you know, to not

01:02:41.820 keep funding Ukraine, to not keep funding our own forever wars or somebody else's like

01:02:46.920 what's he doing?

01:02:48.520 And my own thought on it, Rich, was, you know, Trump really gave Putin every benefit of the

01:02:53.500 doubt.

01:02:54.180 He tried to his typical like say nice things about your enemies and mean things about your

01:02:58.380 friends, you know, and it worked to a great extent on the tariffs and other ways.

01:03:01.900 But Putin just can't be charmed.

01:03:04.860 And slowly but surely, Trump came to his own realization, which is what needed to happen

01:03:08.620 on Putin.

01:03:09.600 Trump no longer trusts him.

01:03:11.920 I don't think he likes him.

01:03:14.140 I think he feels like he Putin was trying to play him.

01:03:17.860 And Trump has now seen that for himself.

01:03:19.640 And so I do think we're at a new day now where he's got he's always had like one foot in

01:03:25.940 the more isolationist J.D.

01:03:28.380 Vance, Tucker Carlson camp and one foot in the more neo Connie camp.

01:03:32.180 And I think maybe he's got like a couple toes from that first camp now also over it.

01:03:37.000 The balance is moving to something that I think, you know, the more traditional wing of the

01:03:41.620 party would like.

01:03:43.280 Yeah, I agree on all points.

01:03:45.040 So it's very, very important that person asked you that question never said he was going

01:03:49.920 to cut off Ukraine.

01:03:50.900 He never did.

01:03:51.740 A lot of people around him said it.

01:03:53.620 A lot of people who wanted to cut off Ukraine ended up in high level positions, but he never

01:03:57.500 said it himself.

01:03:59.320 And I was fairly, I'm a Ukraine hawk, but I was much more bullish on Trump's policy here

01:04:03.420 than a lot of other hawks.

01:04:04.800 Because I thought there was a chance he could shake something loose and we'd get some sort

01:04:07.940 of peace deal as it can be a good peace deal or, you know, it might just be a ceasefire

01:04:12.640 for a couple of years, whatever it is.

01:04:14.160 But he just really draw a line where the control is now and say, Russia, you know, we regret

01:04:18.940 it, but Russia is taking this territory.

01:04:21.280 We're not going to get it back anytime soon.

01:04:23.100 They keep it for now.

01:04:24.460 And that Putin might go along with that because he'd be afraid of pissing off Trump.

01:04:29.380 And he wasn't, at least not as afraid enough.

01:04:34.740 And then I thought if Putin clearly is playing him along, Trump would turn on him eventually.

01:04:39.720 And a lot of Ukraine hawks over the last six months are like, see, you're wrong.

01:04:42.380 You're wrong about him.

01:04:43.240 He just likes Putin.

01:04:43.880 He's just with Putin.

01:04:44.600 I'm not sure.

01:04:46.000 It took a little longer than I would have liked, but he has made the turn.

01:04:49.520 Because, you know, a lot of things about Trump, they're sort of gonzo and they're big

01:04:54.360 truth social posts.

01:04:55.760 But underneath it, it's kind of a conventional or commonsensical approach.

01:05:00.520 Iran, you give them 50 days or 60 days or whatever, it's talk to them before Israel

01:05:04.720 hits them.

01:05:05.740 And if nothing comes of it, you hit them, right?

01:05:08.640 That's a very conventional thing.

01:05:10.260 Here, see if you can get a peace deal.

01:05:12.420 Why not?

01:05:13.100 If you can't, well, then you move to another policy.

01:05:16.480 And I think the key thing is not the tariff threats.

01:05:18.820 I don't think that moves Putin.

01:05:21.420 But I do think, unfortunately, you just got to give Ukraine more weapons and say to Putin,

01:05:25.120 this has already been a meat grinder for you.

01:05:26.800 It's going to be more of a meat grinder for you.

01:05:28.400 And you're not really going to gain any more territory.

01:05:31.100 And maybe you're going to outlast us.

01:05:32.280 You think you're going to outlast us.

01:05:33.860 We're going to be highly painful for you.

01:05:35.380 And maybe you'll think differently in a year and we'll talk then.

01:05:38.820 So I think that's the basic approach and is the correct one.

01:05:44.660 Exactly right.

01:05:45.400 I think he said something interesting about Melania.

01:05:49.140 Did you see this the other day?

01:05:50.140 Yeah, I loved that.

01:05:50.400 Like, you know, I'd go, I'd hang up, I'd hang up from a phone call with Putin.

01:05:54.260 I had a really nice talk with Vladimir.

01:05:56.060 And she'd say, oh, really?

01:05:57.320 Because he just bombed another city.

01:05:59.580 I'd get home.

01:06:00.360 I'd say, first lady, I had the most wonderful talk with Vladimir.

01:06:04.320 I think we're finished.

01:06:05.620 And then I'll turn on the television or she'll say to me one time, wow, that's strange because

01:06:10.460 they just bombed a nursing home.

01:06:13.580 They said, what?

01:06:14.440 I think that's so interesting because, of course, Melania Trump, of all people, would

01:06:23.100 understand very well the instincts of a man like Vladimir Putin, given where she grew

01:06:28.340 up in the Eastern Bloc, what used to be part of the Soviet Union, Yugoslavia, and probably

01:06:35.040 has a very different idea of how he operates and whether her husband should trust him.

01:06:40.840 Completely.

01:06:41.280 And this is, you know, with the Epstein clips from Trump, you know, he throws a lot of chaff

01:06:45.540 and BS out there.

01:06:46.940 But also, part of his power is a communicator.

01:06:49.820 It's so real and hits home.

01:06:52.240 Of course, this is the kind of thing that happens, right?

01:06:54.580 You think you're doing something great.

01:06:56.160 You go home, your spouse says, I don't think it's so great.

01:06:58.920 You know, why is this happening?

01:07:01.020 You know, it was funny.

01:07:03.220 It was memorable and rings true.

01:07:06.220 And Melania has been right about this.

01:07:08.100 And the president finally realizes it.

01:07:09.940 I think it's great because she doesn't, she doesn't try to, you know, she's not on camera

01:07:16.060 or on the scene giving Trump a lot of political advice, right?

01:07:19.360 Like, she's very happy, to my delight, frankly, to be behind the scenes, a supporter of her

01:07:25.240 husband and like, not like a lady Jill Biden, who's out there like a lady Macbeth.

01:07:31.460 You know, she's, yeah.

01:07:32.760 And Melania occasionally shows up with wearing a fancy hat, you know, and at events.

01:07:37.680 Looking amazing.

01:07:37.960 Yeah.

01:07:38.100 She's not, she's not helping run cabinet meetings.

01:07:40.860 But she, it's just a reminder that she obviously is very powerful.

01:07:44.140 And if you talk to anybody in Trump land, anybody, they'll say the one person like he

01:07:49.180 will listen to all the time and might even fear a little bit is Melania.

01:07:54.360 You know, she's earned it by not being too vocal and too annoying on too many issues.

01:07:59.980 And so it's pretty interesting that she, she's playing an important role behind the

01:08:04.160 scenes here.

01:08:04.540 We'll see.

01:08:05.140 I mean, no one wants to see this war go on and on and on.

01:08:07.240 It doesn't seem winnable, but either side, I'd love for it just to come to some conclusion

01:08:12.120 sometime soon.

01:08:12.880 So all the killing can stop.

01:08:14.800 All right.

01:08:14.940 Lastly, let's talk up for a minute about illegal immigration because the, um, there was an

01:08:20.980 ice raid in California on a marijuana farm the other day.

01:08:25.220 And not only did they conduct an ice raid, but they wound up rescuing, this is on Thursday,

01:08:31.300 at least 14 migrant children, including 10 who were unaccompanied minors.

01:08:37.660 They've been now turned over to HHS.

01:08:39.820 So you have illegals who are here who are minors with no parents.

01:08:44.200 You have no idea who their parents are working at a pot farm in California.

01:08:50.180 The, uh, ice agents arrested at least 361 illegals.

01:08:55.440 That's up from the original 319 that were reported.

01:08:58.480 And among those who were arrested, we've got previously deported Mexican alien convicted

01:09:04.120 of kidnapping, attempted rape and attempted child molestation.

01:09:08.440 Mexican alien previously convicted of rape and DUI.

01:09:11.080 Salvadoran alien previously convicted of DUI and hit and run Mexican alien convicted three

01:09:17.060 times for burglary and a DUI.

01:09:18.940 These are dangerous people who Gavin Newsom was effectively allowing to work on this pot

01:09:25.000 farm and who Trump and his ice agents and Tom Homan went in there and got rescuing those

01:09:32.000 children.

01:09:32.500 This as elsewhere, you get reports still out of California.

01:09:36.700 This is actually via national review, um, that you've got a professor at California state,

01:09:42.020 Jonathan Anthony Caravello, who was, who was being detained by federal agents, uh, after

01:09:47.000 a riot at a different place, the glass house farms.

01:09:49.540 I think that might be the same place actually.

01:09:51.480 Um, same place for throwing tear gas, a tear gas canister at the ice agents.

01:09:59.760 He ran toward the canister, picked it up through the canister over, over hand back at the border

01:10:05.380 patrol agents.

01:10:06.140 It came within approximately several feet of the law enforcement's heads.

01:10:10.640 So this is what the Trump team is up against.

01:10:14.520 And the national review team has a post up today talking about how this could all be solved by

01:10:22.420 e-verify.

01:10:23.540 Like why haven't we done that?

01:10:27.060 So your thoughts on the e-verify piece of it and just the news out of California.

01:10:31.600 Yeah.

01:10:31.800 Well, tolerating legal immigration creates this cesspool of illegality that leads to all sorts

01:10:38.520 of hideous abuses.

01:10:39.740 So it doesn't surprise me that you go to that farm that's employing so many illegal workers

01:10:45.980 and you have additional illegality on top of it.

01:10:50.100 So there's always going to be a place for, for ice raids.

01:10:52.860 But again, I think the main name of the game is cutting off the jobs magnet and making it

01:10:58.580 much harder to employ illegal immigrants.

01:11:01.560 And in these raids, they shouldn't just be targeting illegal workers.

01:11:04.620 They should be frog marching, you know, the occasional HR person or the, the employer or

01:11:09.480 the boss of, of the business that's been violating the laws to make a point.

01:11:13.980 Don't do this because it might, you might get caught by the law as well.

01:11:18.400 But the easiest way to do it is to have a mandatory e-verify system where you have to verify

01:11:24.300 that your, your employees are actually legal.

01:11:27.680 There is no nod and wink arrangement.

01:11:29.480 You can't claim, oh, I didn't really know.

01:11:31.660 They gave me these fake documents.

01:11:33.700 And then it becomes much harder to employ illegal immigrants without ice having to go to the

01:11:38.620 trouble of actually raiding places.

01:11:41.900 And if illegal immigrants get the message, you know, it's not as easy to work here as

01:11:45.760 I was led to believe.

01:11:46.680 It wasn't easy, as easy to work here as it was six months ago or a year ago.

01:11:50.560 Then you get the, the self-deportation, which if, if you're going to get, we've talked about

01:11:54.880 this before, if you get the numbers way up, you need people to leave without having expend

01:11:59.260 federal resources, tracking them down, detaining them and returning them, you know, on a government

01:12:05.120 plane or whatever.

01:12:06.420 You need them to, to, to go the same way they came under their own power.

01:12:11.260 So I think e-verify is a key part of it.

01:12:13.080 But again, Trump, because he's a little conflicted on this issue.

01:12:16.520 He hates illegal immigration, but he also has a lot of sympathy for employers who need

01:12:20.940 immigrant employees, hasn't been willing to, to, uh, really, really push for, for the

01:12:26.480 system.

01:12:26.800 And he has so much power in the party right now.

01:12:28.760 If he just said he favors it, it'd become a kind of orthodoxy almost instantly.

01:12:33.280 Immediately, immediately.

01:12:34.620 Yeah.

01:12:34.760 And he's also worried about the economy.

01:12:35.940 And I think he's been convinced that mass deportations of farm workers and hotel workers

01:12:40.220 would hurt the economy.

01:12:41.580 I mean, I think maybe short-term that would be true, but then they'd have to offer higher

01:12:44.900 wages to actual American citizens, which would boost quality of life and net net wind up

01:12:49.360 boosting his approval ratings.

01:12:50.720 That's my own back of the envelope.

01:12:52.260 Would you like to see the professor, the Cal state professor who threw the canister at

01:12:57.180 the cops?

01:12:57.680 Maybe, maybe you didn't click on it on national review, but there he is right on brand.

01:13:03.040 I mean, it looks for the listening audience, like a totally crazed.

01:13:07.920 I don't know.

01:13:09.520 Oh, he's got the same hair as Scott Pressler, who we love, but then he's got just like this

01:13:13.900 crazed look on his face with a very 70s looking shirt and big glasses and some facial scruff

01:13:20.120 and enjoy prison, professor.

01:13:22.620 It should work out great.

01:13:23.280 He looks like Zoran Mondani's economics professor from college.

01:13:28.680 Taught him everything he knows about the market.

01:13:30.760 I thought he looked a little like Sonia Sotomayor, but that's too mean to Sonia Sotomayor.

01:13:34.960 Here is some of the video that we have here.

01:13:38.740 Look at this.

01:13:39.220 A protestor's throwing objects at agents in vans.

01:13:42.680 This is in Los Angeles as they try to conduct their raids.

01:13:47.140 One appears to fire a gun at federal agents as they're out there.

01:13:52.180 I mean, these guys, the ICE agents are doing yeoman's work and they are just getting beaten

01:13:58.120 up in city after city and then beaten up on the airwaves by losers like Anna Navarro,

01:14:04.120 right?

01:14:04.560 Who are comparing them to the Gestapo with their commentary.

01:14:07.740 And then Tom Holland, who's a hero, goes on with NBC's Dasha Burns.

01:14:12.600 And look at this, what happens here at South 13.

01:14:16.640 I think one of the things that's had a lot of folks up in arms is that ICE agents, unlike

01:14:21.460 other law enforcement, have been masked to protect their identities.

01:14:24.960 That's not something that we've really had on this scale in this country.

01:14:29.820 Do you?

01:14:30.160 Well, we never have a scale of attacks on ICE.

01:14:32.060 We have now up 700% attacks on ICE.

01:14:34.660 Doxing against ICE agents.

01:14:36.180 Well, you've had increased attacks on police officers as well in the wake of the defund the

01:14:39.800 police movement too, but they haven't put masks on.

01:14:43.300 You name a police agency that has a 700% increase on assaults.

01:14:47.840 Name one.

01:14:49.840 I haven't looked at that data.

01:14:51.020 Yeah.

01:14:51.820 You won't find one.

01:14:52.780 The same people that are complaining about ICE wearing masks, have they ever said anything

01:14:55.900 about BLM protesters wearing masks?

01:14:57.420 Well, I mean, that leads me to the question that, like, do you have concerns that-

01:15:00.760 Let me answer, though.

01:15:01.920 Let me answer.

01:15:02.240 Yeah, okay.

01:15:02.660 Have they ever said anything about the mass protesters that became criminals on college campuses

01:15:06.620 that threatened Jewish students and took over buildings, destroyed property?

01:15:10.120 They were all wearing masks.

01:15:11.080 Did anybody pass legislation saying they can't wear a mask during a protest?

01:15:14.500 No.

01:15:17.440 Is it possible for an administration official to be your own personal heroine?

01:15:23.860 Because Tom Homan is my own personal heroine.

01:15:27.140 He's so good.

01:15:28.020 When I was looking at that, you know, I was looking at the clip.

01:15:30.980 It reminds me a little bit of J.D. Vance during the campaign.

01:15:33.140 J.D. would go on any program, always sure-footed, and occasionally corner the interviewers himself,

01:15:39.420 which is exactly what Homan did there with Dasha Burns.

01:15:43.300 And what's happening to ICE agents, this is what you'd want to happen in a healthy society

01:15:48.420 if there really was a Gestapo stalking the streets, right?

01:15:52.060 But this is not the Gestapo.

01:15:53.880 They're federal law enforcement agents that are trying to enforce laws that are on the books.

01:15:58.260 You know, they say they're internment camps, you know, alligator Alcatraz and all the rest of it.

01:16:03.720 The federal law says illegal immigrants shall be detained, right?

01:16:07.260 So it's the other side that's ignored the law and been literally lawless forever.

01:16:12.360 And now the law is actually being enforced.

01:16:14.680 And perversely, that's being made into, you know, the dark night of fascism descending.

01:16:20.600 It's crazy.

01:16:21.500 It's totally crazy.

01:16:24.180 I should correct myself.

01:16:25.140 I guess Dasha Burns left NBC in January of last year and now is with Politico.

01:16:30.540 That's what we were watching there.

01:16:32.680 Well, look, I think the ICE stuff is just getting better and better.

01:16:36.520 They hit another record low on the illegal border crossings in June.

01:16:43.320 I mean, it was a crazy number.

01:16:44.560 It was so good.

01:16:46.000 Everything's working there.

01:16:46.920 Unfortunately, Rich, the latest poll I saw, I saw showed people are now veering more toward, well, we shouldn't deport them all.

01:16:56.200 I'm like that.

01:16:58.500 That's because of the southern border being secure.

01:17:01.300 It's the same way.

01:17:02.280 Exactly.

01:17:02.940 How New York City residents voted for the awful Bill de Blasio.

01:17:08.660 And right.

01:17:09.360 Because they are apparently going to vote for this defund the police mom, Donnie.

01:17:12.320 They are forgetting what life was like pre Giuliani and it only took six months of Trump in office for them to forget what life was like under Joe Biden and the masses who came in this country.

01:17:22.680 Now they're like, oh, maybe it's not so bad.

01:17:25.060 Now it was one poll.

01:17:26.200 It was Gallup.

01:17:26.760 It was a pretty decent sample size, if memory holds.

01:17:30.660 But it's just so funny how quickly people are like, oh, problem solved.

01:17:35.940 Totally.

01:17:36.620 Yeah.

01:17:37.420 Totally.

01:17:37.820 That was inevitable.

01:17:39.140 But I think the administration is committed to kind of punching their way through it.

01:17:43.500 Because, I mean, have we even put a dent really on the Biden influx in terms of numbers, in terms of just getting that number of people out?

01:17:51.880 No.

01:17:52.300 So there's so much work yet to be done.

01:17:54.460 So I don't think they're going to be deterred.

01:17:55.880 But it's kind of inevitable the polling would shift at least some because, one, you know, you don't have the problem coming in from the border, as you're pointing out.

01:18:02.740 Two, I mean, you are going to have to reach people who are just illegal immigrants who aren't criminals.

01:18:09.000 You know, they have to go, too.

01:18:10.180 They don't belong here.

01:18:11.940 And they're more sympathetic than the MS-13 member or whatever.

01:18:16.220 Yeah.

01:18:18.460 Rich Lowry, you're such a stand-up guy for coming on and saving me this morning.

01:18:23.100 Of course.

01:18:23.260 You were supposed to come on later, but you readjusted the schedule to join me here in Vail, Colorado.

01:18:27.560 If you can do the show from a random conference room at the airport, surely I could show up on my phone an hour or two early to accommodate you.

01:18:36.200 Seriously, I wasn't expecting this.

01:18:37.440 I was like, well, I was trying to get my makeup on in this room.

01:18:40.400 And I'm like, the nice lady is running in the soundbite list to me.

01:18:44.880 I'm like, thank God.

01:18:46.660 I greatly appreciate their help.

01:18:48.300 They're wonderful places to go.

01:18:48.740 Aspen and Vail are wonderful places to go.

01:18:51.260 But you always run this risk.

01:18:53.600 They're hard to get in and out of.

01:18:56.300 Unfortunately.

01:18:57.220 Eventually, I hope to make it home, and I hope to be broadcasting tomorrow from the normal studio in New Jersey, at least during the summer.

01:19:04.580 Rich, thank you.

01:19:05.800 Awesome.

01:19:06.260 Safe travels.

01:19:07.880 All right.

01:19:08.160 Thank you.

01:19:08.540 And thanks to all of you for tuning in.

01:19:09.700 We will be back, we hope, tomorrow.

01:19:14.060 Thanks for listening to The Megyn Kelly Show.

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01:22:48.800 Clap this.

01:22:49.960 Let's do it.

01:22:50.000 That's our best.

01:22:52.000 We'll be right.

01:22:52.720 Let's do it.

01:22:53.300 Let's do it.

01:22:54.060 Let's do it.

01:22:54.140 Let's do it.

01:22:54.960 Let's do it.

01:22:56.020 And make sure this is all Красaccitti全部 in な consolidated discussion.

01:22:58.400 Let's do it.

01:22:59.240 Let's do it.

01:22:59.960 Let's do it.

01:23:00.440 Let's do it.

01:23:01.360 Let's do it.

01:23:01.980 Let's do it.

01:23:02.420 Let's do it.

01:23:03.180 Let's do it.

01:23:04.520 Let's do it.

01:23:04.860 Let's do it.

The Megyn Kelly Show - July 16, 2025

Biden Cover-Up Continues, Gavin Newsom's Terrible Answer, and Trump's New Epstein Hoax Framing, with Rich Lowry ｜ Ep. 1109

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