The Megyn Kelly Show - Biden's Mental Fitness, Targeting Political Enemies, and ＂Trans Dopers,＂ with Ted Cruz and Michael Shermer

00:00:00.580 Welcome to The Megyn Kelly Show, your home for open, honest, and provocative conversations.

00:00:11.780 Hey everyone, I'm Megyn Kelly. Welcome to The Megyn Kelly Show.

00:00:15.480 I'm going to start with this. I wasn't planning on doing this.

00:00:19.120 I just feel like I got to tell you that something really sad happened in my family over the weekend.

00:00:26.120 And my sister died. She was 58. Her name was Suzanne Crosley, and she died suddenly on Friday of a heart attack.

00:00:36.660 She hasn't been in very good health over the past couple of years. It's like sort of one problem after another.

00:00:42.560 So it was sudden and it was unexpected. And I went up, got news of it after the show and went right up and was there.

00:00:50.800 With my mom and my brother Paul and my nephew Brian, one of her three kids, when she passed.

00:01:02.340 So it was really hard. It was extremely emotional.

00:01:05.980 My poor mom, as all moms and dads out there know, this is not the order in which this is supposed to happen.

00:01:12.380 So in any event, we were all together over the weekend. I'm going back up there after the show today and she will have her funeral tomorrow.

00:01:23.800 Thankfully, we already had tomorrow's show on tape, so I don't have to worry about that.

00:01:26.440 And I said to myself, do I come back? Do I do Monday's show? Do I not do Monday's show?

00:01:32.300 And I really, like for me, it's better to be here.

00:01:35.240 Maybe you can relate, but it's more cathartic to work.

00:01:38.660 Like it gave me a couple of hours where I could take my mind off of it and do my job and talk about stuff that matters.

00:01:45.820 It's not like what we talk about on the show doesn't matter.

00:01:47.880 Not entirely every day, but most days.

00:01:51.580 And I don't know, spend some time with my family who I've been away from for the past couple of days.

00:01:55.320 You know, Doug and the three kids.

00:01:58.280 And I'll have more to say about my sister and her life later this week when I've had a chance to process it more.

00:02:04.140 You know what I mean?

00:02:05.940 I saw that Ainsley Earhart's mom died over the weekend, too.

00:02:11.740 It's just a reminder to hug the people you love, right?

00:02:15.840 How short and tenuous life is and how important it is to stay close to the people you love.

00:02:22.240 You know, we can't all be perfect on that front, but we can make a little effort day by day just to, you know, shoot a text or return a call.

00:02:29.080 I'm never very good at that.

00:02:30.920 So it's a big reminder to me.

00:02:32.580 And just how fleeting things can be, right?

00:02:36.460 And how we get ourselves so upset over shit that doesn't matter.

00:02:39.440 This is one that does.

00:02:42.160 And then you, of course, find out who your friends are and who the jerks are in a situation like this, too.

00:02:48.920 And I'm happy to say so many more friends than jerks.

00:02:52.520 My mom has a caregiver.

00:02:55.860 You know, she's got a couple of them.

00:02:57.200 It's like a service that goes in and they make sure she's okay.

00:03:00.100 And she lived with my sister.

00:03:01.260 And one of the women went to the hospital immediately.

00:03:06.700 She said, my mom at the hospital alone at first.

00:03:09.060 And she went with my mom.

00:03:11.520 And she sat there.

00:03:12.660 And I was on my way up.

00:03:15.040 And she said, well, my husband is in a different hospital right now getting cancer treatment.

00:03:21.920 But he's getting out today.

00:03:23.360 So I'm just going to pop over there.

00:03:25.580 I'm going to pick him up.

00:03:26.660 And then he's going to drive me back to this hospital so I can sit with your mom until you get there.

00:03:31.260 I mean, what a good person, right?

00:03:34.200 Like, that's humanity.

00:03:37.660 Like, that's the true essence of humanity.

00:03:39.600 Not all, like, the terrible people we talk about all the time on the show and in the news and who you encounter when you have road rage or they have it, you know?

00:03:46.780 Like, that's what it is to be truly, like, a human being and to see another person's humanity and to step in and self-sacrifice to help another who you don't know that well.

00:03:57.760 So I am thinking about all those people who helped my mom and helped my sister.

00:04:03.420 And maybe you have them in your life and maybe they need a shout out today, too.

00:04:07.080 So between now and the next time I talk to you live, if you can spare a prayer for my mom and my sister's kids and my sister's one grandchild, I would sure appreciate it.

00:04:20.840 Because they're hurting today.

00:04:24.680 All right, let's do the news, okay?

00:04:26.240 I'm a good compartmentalizer and I know I can do the news and that the news will be good for me.

00:04:30.480 And I hope it's good for the country, too.

00:04:34.120 Let's talk about the midterms because we are two weeks out now.

00:04:36.820 Today, in just a bit, we're going to be joined by Senator Ted Cruz about the Republican effort to regain control of the House and of the Senate.

00:04:44.900 I mean, that, a couple of weeks ago, didn't really seem like it was all that realistic.

00:04:49.220 I mean, all the pollsters were saying there's really no way that Republicans are going to regain control of the Senate.

00:04:54.500 Wow, what a difference a couple of weeks make.

00:04:56.960 He's also going to discuss the ways in which some of the left have weaponized our legal system.

00:05:02.200 He's got a whole book about it.

00:05:03.440 And he's, you know, Ted Cruz got his start as a lawyer.

00:05:06.060 He was the Solicitor General in the state of Texas.

00:05:08.100 He's argued in front of the Supreme Court more than a dozen times.

00:05:10.620 He's written, I think, 80 plus legal briefs for the Supreme Court.

00:05:13.600 So this guy, he clerked for Rehnquist, on and on it goes.

00:05:16.560 So we'll talk to him.

00:05:17.860 And that'll be an interesting interview.

00:05:20.120 First, though, we're going to talk about a topic that's probably impacted every single one of us.

00:05:24.460 Do you have right now a friend or a neighbor or a loved one or an acquaintance who truly believes in what you know is a conspiracy theory?

00:05:33.100 Maybe you're one of them.

00:05:34.100 Maybe you've got one you toyed with.

00:05:35.480 I'm not sure.

00:05:37.140 In a world where some things we are told are conspiracy theories turn out to be true.

00:05:42.260 No, right?

00:05:43.300 Like that's that's happened, too.

00:05:45.480 It's harder than ever to spot a false one to really know what's real and what's not.

00:05:49.960 Well, a new book takes a close look at why conspiracy theories gain traction and how, if at all, you can extract yourself or someone you love out of one if you feel like that's necessary.

00:06:01.080 The book is called Conspiracy, Why the Rational Believe the Irrational, and it's out this week.

00:06:07.720 Its author is Michael Shermer.

00:06:09.640 He's been on the show before, and he is the founding publisher of Skeptic Magazine.

00:06:19.360 Michael Shermer, welcome back to the show.

00:06:21.900 Nice to see you again, Megan.

00:06:23.080 I'm really sorry to hear about your loss.

00:06:26.360 It's tough.

00:06:27.400 There's no good way to go through it other than just to go through it.

00:06:32.160 You mentioned Skeptic Magazine.

00:06:33.760 This is what it looks like.

00:06:35.460 That woman right there was my partner who I founded the magazine with 30 years ago, and she just died last year.

00:06:41.980 We put her on the back cover.

00:06:43.080 Pat Lindsay.

00:06:44.200 He spent every day with somebody for 30 years, and then they're gone.

00:06:47.280 And it's still, you know, it's a year now, and I still think, well, I've got to call Pat.

00:06:52.720 And then it's like, oh, I can't call her.

00:06:55.460 Yeah.

00:06:55.840 You know, it's just, and a year, no, it's over a year.

00:06:58.840 It's like still.

00:07:00.280 So I don't know.

00:07:01.000 You just keep them in your thoughts and your memories and pay tribute to them as best you can.

00:07:07.140 And that's really all we can do here is just keep going.

00:07:10.720 You're so right.

00:07:11.560 And I thank you for saying that, and I'm sorry for your loss of your friend too.

00:07:15.500 I was saying to my, she has two boys and a daughter, and they're grown.

00:07:22.300 You know, they're in their late 20s, early 30s now.

00:07:23.960 But I was saying, and I really believe this, that you do have a way of keeping them alive in a meaningful way, not in the same way.

00:07:32.480 But like, I can hear my sister's voice.

00:07:36.860 You know, I can, you know, my mom was rambling on about something over the weekend.

00:07:41.700 And I'm like, Mom, you're kind of rambling.

00:07:44.480 My sister would have been like, Ma, shut up.

00:07:47.040 Going on too long.

00:07:48.560 You know, she was always the blunt one.

00:07:50.700 And, you know, it's, we laughed about her over the weekend.

00:07:54.620 We shared in these great memories.

00:07:55.680 And it's almost like they're gone, but not all of them is gone.

00:07:59.460 You know, if you love somebody and if you know them so well, like I'm sure you knew Pat so well of 30 years together, you can kind of still tap into their advice and their thoughts.

00:08:06.380 Mm-hmm.

00:08:07.540 Yeah.

00:08:07.940 Oh, yeah.

00:08:08.260 I've lost all my parents.

00:08:09.120 And I still consult with my mom in my mind about like, what should I do about this personal problem?

00:08:13.420 What would my mom say?

00:08:15.400 Oh, you know, so they're still alive really in your mind, in your memories, in your life.

00:08:20.600 Particularly people you spend a lot of time with that have had an influence.

00:08:25.620 You know, it's like, it's like the Jimmy Stewart film, It's a Wonderful Life.

00:08:29.480 You know, it leaves an awful hole.

00:08:31.500 But think of all the differences in people's lives that person made that would not have happened had they not been there.

00:08:38.360 Mm-hmm.

00:08:38.960 We were writing the obituary over the weekend, the family was, and we were saying how she loved games, like she loved all sorts of fun board games, you know, and we were saying right now, one of the things was she was a fierce gin rummy player and she was eagle-eyed for anybody who tried to palm the double five in dominoes.

00:09:00.780 You know those people, right?

00:09:02.740 You've got to be ever alert.

00:09:06.500 Yeah, and celebrate the life, you know.

00:09:08.180 Of course, mourning is natural and feeling bad is totally normal, but don't forget to celebrate and feel good about that person because, you know, a century from now, we'll all be gone.

00:09:18.300 So all we can do is just try to make a difference every day and just remember, you know, today could be it.

00:09:24.460 Tomorrow could be it.

00:09:25.240 So I better enjoy every moment, every hour, every relationship, every time you have a contact with somebody you love or just friends and workmates, just remember, you know, that could be your last day with them.

00:09:37.780 It does have a way of, like, not just softening you for a bit, you know, like you're just a little bit more generous towards your fellow humans and you're more loving and, you know, I've definitely been like, I need to make a better effort.

00:09:48.880 Maybe it'll wane.

00:09:49.720 Maybe I'll go back to my normal lame texting self.

00:09:52.960 I'm not good at returning messages.

00:09:54.620 I get there eventually.

00:09:55.520 I just am not good at doing it quickly.

00:09:58.080 But that's one benefit.

00:09:59.600 That's one silver lining.

00:10:00.680 You know, somebody's death in the family can bring the family together, you together with your friends, you together with what matters, you know, and you see all your dearest friends sending you messages and you think, oh, my God, you know, you wind up feeling I'm lucky.

00:10:13.820 I'm lucky, not how unlucky I am.

00:10:17.000 And that's, you know, if there's a silver lining, I guess that's what it is.

00:10:20.360 Well, and as you said, it puts things into perspective.

00:10:22.060 So you log on Twitter and you see some negative comments, you think, really, does this matter?

00:10:26.440 Oh, it doesn't really matter.

00:10:28.240 Yeah, that's right.

00:10:29.640 Anyway, I, you know, it made me curious.

00:10:31.540 I was reading the packet, the research packet, getting ready for our interview.

00:10:34.560 And you wrote a book.

00:10:35.480 I was like, I should ask him about that.

00:10:36.880 I haven't read it, but it sounds interesting.

00:10:38.840 And I wondered if it was on point.

00:10:40.580 Heavens on Earth, 2018.

00:10:43.920 Right.

00:10:44.280 So that was my book about the afterlife, the mainly the scientific attempt to achieve immortality, you know, through mind uploading or cryonically frozen or the transhumanists and that sort of thing.

00:10:56.400 Although I do deal with religious notions of the afterlife, of which there are many, as you know.

00:11:01.140 And the fact is, no one knows for sure what happens after we die.

00:11:04.640 It's hard to imagine not being alive because to imagine something, you have to be, you know, alive and sentient.

00:11:12.260 And so, you know, just picturing what happens after this life, it's really almost impossible not to think of something continuing.

00:11:22.600 And yet we just don't have really good scientific evidence that that our consciousness continues on.

00:11:28.980 But, you know, no one knows for sure.

00:11:30.680 You know, it could go into some quantum ether field or something like that, like some of the transhumanists think.

00:11:37.740 But really, it's, you know, the attempts to continue on, like by being chronically frozen or uploading your mind into the cloud through, you know, the connectome, the copy of all your...

00:11:50.880 Wait a minute. I didn't know anything about that.

00:11:52.160 I've heard about the cryo.

00:11:53.480 What's that second thing?

00:11:54.460 Oh, the connectome, which is the equivalent of your genome, a copy of all your synaptic connections, which would record all your memories.

00:12:03.720 And then you scan it and you upload it into a cloud.

00:12:07.500 No one can do this.

00:12:08.560 We're not even remotely close to being able to do this.

00:12:10.380 Okay, I was going to say.

00:12:11.000 This is, these are the ideas of like tech billionaires.

00:12:14.680 You know, if I can't live forever in this body, I'll upload my mind into the cloud and then maybe download it into a future body that's, you know, that's a clone or whatever, a robot.

00:12:23.380 Yeah, these are, it's all sci-fi.

00:12:25.660 It's fun.

00:12:26.220 It's interesting.

00:12:26.980 But, you know, there's no evidence that any of this could happen.

00:12:29.560 But like the cryo freezing, that can happen.

00:12:31.740 Like you can, right?

00:12:32.860 People have frozen their brains.

00:12:35.300 I mean, Walt Disney and others.

00:12:36.200 Oh, yes, it's been done.

00:12:37.400 But no one's ever been brought back.

00:12:39.140 No, of course.

00:12:40.440 No animal has been frozen and brought back and made alive again.

00:12:44.760 That has not happened.

00:12:45.880 And it doesn't look like, to me, it's going to happen anytime soon.

00:12:49.500 So, again, don't bank on that.

00:12:51.700 I appreciate every day.

00:12:52.700 I wouldn't want it.

00:12:54.320 You know, I wouldn't want it if somebody, if they developed it for real and they said, you can do this and in a thousand years, we'll bring you back.

00:13:01.540 You know, or there's a good shot.

00:13:02.680 Somebody will bring you back.

00:13:03.880 Can you imagine how scary that would be?

00:13:05.420 Can you imagine if we went back a thousand years ago and took one of those folks and opened their eyes and woke them up?

00:13:14.980 They'd be terrified.

00:13:16.500 They'd probably wind up taking their own lives.

00:13:18.080 It would be so terrifying.

00:13:20.140 Everybody you loved is gone.

00:13:22.300 Nothing you knew is still present.

00:13:24.600 The world is so big and scary.

00:13:25.960 I mean, I don't I just feel like I don't know.

00:13:28.740 Even the most evolved brain would be terrified.

00:13:32.360 I don't think I'd be a pleasant experience.

00:13:34.440 But, Megan, you could you could write it.

00:13:35.860 You could be a history professor a thousand years from now.

00:13:38.320 And when they ask you about the Trump era, you go, hey, I was there.

00:13:41.640 Here's what happened.

00:13:43.340 Maybe they throw me in a loony bin if they didn't know my history.

00:13:46.300 Like, no, I swear I really was.

00:13:48.700 Well, that's fascinating.

00:13:49.620 I don't I will not be freezing myself.

00:13:51.180 You heard it here first that it kind of you know, it's not like you're kind of an expert in how the mind can trick itself.

00:13:57.920 Right.

00:13:58.380 Into thinking they put some helmet on and all their brain is going to download like we, you know, on some sort of chip.

00:14:04.420 And that's kind of what your book is about and kind of what Skeptic Magazine is devoted to and how we fool ourselves.

00:14:10.960 We're better at fooling ourselves than anybody else.

00:14:14.200 And the conspiracy.

00:14:15.400 So conspiracy theories, it's so apt right now.

00:14:17.500 They're everywhere.

00:14:19.620 They're everywhere.

00:14:20.720 And I will tell you, even as a news person, you have to work so hard to separate fact from fiction because there are people actively trying to mislead us.

00:14:30.960 Right.

00:14:31.680 So it's like, OK, some people do lie.

00:14:35.340 You can't put blind faith in anyone.

00:14:37.080 It's good to question.

00:14:38.600 But that doesn't mean Hillary Clinton is running a pedophile ring out of a pizza joint in Washington, D.C.

00:14:43.620 So start there, like the broad brush approach to separating fact from fiction and not getting drawn in to conspiracy theories.

00:14:54.580 Right.

00:14:55.120 So my my theory is a kind of a three part or three legged stool theory of proxy conspiracism, tribal conspiracism and constructive conspiracism.

00:15:05.380 So the first proxy conspiracism.

00:15:08.140 Let's just take that example of of the Pizzagate, you know, that that there's a secret satanic pedophile cult being run out of a pizzeria by Hillary Clinton and Beyonce and Tom Hanks and whoever else in the Democratic Party.

00:15:19.820 Now, does anyone really believe that?

00:15:22.800 Well, one guy did, Edgar Welch.

00:15:24.480 You know, he went there with an AR-15 style rifle and to shoot up the place and drove three and a half hours and made a video for his daughters and uploaded it.

00:15:32.800 And so you can see what his motive was.

00:15:34.880 He thought there was a crime going on.

00:15:37.140 And that is something you would do, I suppose, if you really believed this was true and no one was doing anything about it.

00:15:43.640 I mean, that's what he said.

00:15:44.420 I'm going in and so forth.

00:15:46.880 But most people, I think, when they say, yeah, there could be something to it, they tick the box on a survey about Pizzagate and they tell posters, yeah, there might be something to it.

00:15:55.020 They probably don't really believe it in the same way that you and I believe in other things, you know, that there's going to be money in the bank and gas in my tank and the germ theory of disease or whatever.

00:16:06.900 Just kind of basic things of life that we believe.

00:16:09.700 I don't think people, when they say they believe Pizzagate conspiracy theories like that, really mean it that way.

00:16:14.660 It's more of a proxy for something else, the kind of thing those Democrats would do.

00:16:18.800 Those libtards are so confused and crazy.

00:16:21.760 And then maybe they conflate something like, yeah, it wasn't Clinton, Bill, on that airplane with Jeffrey Epstein to that island and there was pedophilia going on there.

00:16:31.400 Yeah, there's something about that.

00:16:32.800 But, you know, so in their minds, they kind of confabulate all these story into a conspiracy theory, you know, such that if you refute it, if you took somebody that said they believe it to the comic ping pong pizza place and said, look, there's no there's no basement here.

00:16:46.140 There's no pedophile.

00:16:47.040 It's not like they're going to go, well, in that case, I'll vote for Hillary.

00:16:49.820 They were never going to vote for Hillary.

00:16:51.020 They don't like that.

00:16:51.560 But would they say, OK, I believe it, like now having toured the facility, now I believe it.

00:16:56.800 Now I believe it's not true.

00:16:58.620 They might say, yeah, OK, this one's not true.

00:17:02.580 But what you hear is like, yeah, but some others are probably true.

00:17:05.520 Something like this could be going on.

00:17:07.860 It's the kind of thing Democrats would do, even if this one's not particularly true.

00:17:13.040 My my case study of this was the O.J. trial, you know, which O.J. was acquitted based on a conspiracy theory that the LAPD planted the bloody glove and the blood splatter drops and all that stuff.

00:17:23.720 And even though it was clear that was not the case here and that he really was guilty, the jury, again, mostly African-Americans on a kind of a proxy conspiracy theory said, even if this one's not true, it's the kind of thing the LAPD have done.

00:17:39.200 And the fact is, they have done that. Right. If you look at the history of the relationship of the LAPD with African-American community in the 50s, 60s and 70s, it was not good.

00:17:49.280 And police did plant evidence. Right. So in a way, they're signaling maybe this one's not true, but it is the kind of thing that has happened.

00:17:56.640 And therefore, in this case, they acquitted. So I think a lot of conspiracies are in that camp as proxies.

00:18:03.500 Are there people who are more prone to get pulled into this than others?

00:18:10.480 Yes. So there's a lot of predictive factors, for example, being a little paranoid makes people more likely to believe conspiracy theories.

00:18:19.600 Again, in my constructive conspiracism, I'm arguing that's a feature, not a bug, because as you mentioned at the start, there's enough of these conspiracy theories that turn out to be true.

00:18:28.020 You know, Watergate and Iran-Contra and the Pentagon Papers and WikiLeaks showing all the things the CIA was doing in the 1950s and 60s, the FBI, you know, bugging Martin Luther King's phone and taping his sexcapades and so on.

00:18:42.420 You know, our government was doing this. The CIA was doing this.

00:18:45.400 You know, COINTELPRO, the FBI's program to plant spies in American social justice groups like the American Indian Movement and feminist groups and the Black Panthers and so on.

00:18:56.760 I mean, this was illegal, immoral stuff that Congress didn't approve, didn't even know about.

00:19:01.900 Oftentimes, the president didn't even know what the CIA and the FBI were doing.

00:19:05.200 There's enough of that that people think, this is not entirely crazy to think that this one in particular could be true, right?

00:19:13.000 And so, or false flag operations like Alex Jones.

00:19:16.280 I mean, it sounds completely ridiculous about Sandy Hook being a false flag operation or 9-11 as an inside job false flag operation.

00:19:23.380 But in fact, we have evidence now since the late 90s that the CIA and the FBI, particularly the CIA with Operation Northwoods, presented President Kennedy with a whole list of false flag operations as a pretext to invading Cuba and assassinating Castro, including shooting down a commercial airliner of American citizens.

00:19:43.640 Now, to his credit, McNamara and Kennedy said, we're not going to do that.

00:19:48.720 But the fact that high up in the American government, people were proposing that we do these kinds of false flag operations shows you how high up conspiracism is and why people are in part susceptible to these things, because a lot of them are true.

00:20:03.840 But how do you know if you're a little bit paranoid?

00:20:07.240 Like, I don't even know what the signs of that are.

00:20:10.520 Right.

00:20:11.060 Well, it depends on, so here's, let me frame it this way.

00:20:16.040 There's, it's kind of a signal detection problem.

00:20:18.060 Enough conspiracy theories are true that it pays to be a little bit paranoid, but does the signal and the noise stand out enough?

00:20:26.720 Right.

00:20:27.000 So just think of it as like a two by two grid.

00:20:30.160 So up in this corner, you have real conspiracy theories, conspiracy theories that turn out to be true and you signal, I think it's true.

00:20:37.340 That's a hit.

00:20:38.360 Over here, you have conspiracy theories that are true conspiracies and you fail to recognize them.

00:20:43.440 So that's a type one, a type two error, a false negative.

00:20:47.000 You fail to recognize the real conspiracy.

00:20:50.040 Down here, we have false conspiracy theories and you say that they're true.

00:20:55.360 That's a miss.

00:20:56.600 That's a, that's a, that's a false positive, a type one error.

00:20:59.940 So my argument is that it pays to make more type one errors than type two errors.

00:21:04.000 That is, think of a conspiracy theory as real when it's not, is, is a, is a better mistake to make than missing a real conspiracy theory because that might harm you.

00:21:14.220 And my evolutionary argument is that in small bands and tribes of, of people that in which we evolved, there were a lot of coalitional shenanigans going on of people plotting against other people within a group, groups plotting against other groups.

00:21:30.240 We know this from anthropological studies of indigenous peoples that a lot of this kind of stuff does go on.

00:21:35.900 It pays to be a little paranoid just in case.

00:21:38.940 And so in general, my argument is that we tend to toward erring on the side of assuming conspiracy theories are true just in case.

00:21:48.100 So it's not that some people are paranoid irrationally.

00:21:52.720 That is, it pays to be a little rationally paranoid.

00:21:56.560 And so then the question becomes, well, but does that mean all conspiracy theories are true?

00:22:00.780 No, of course not.

00:22:01.580 A lot of them are just completely crazy, bogus ideas that are not true.

00:22:05.320 So how do you know, right?

00:22:06.420 So then you have to get into some criteria of our signal detection problem, how many people have to be involved in the conspiracy, how many elements have to come together just right, how grand is the conspiracy theory?

00:22:19.160 And those are the kinds of things I address in the book about, you know, how do you know if, if you're, you're right or not?

00:22:26.240 And I feel like the people who are really conspiracy theorists are serial conspiracy theorists, you know, like, it's not just like, I really believe that Wuhan started, that the virus started in the Wuhan lab, which, by the way, is not a conspiracy theory.

00:22:42.760 It's probably true.

00:22:44.280 That's legit.

00:22:45.240 But like, if you're a conspiracy theorist, you probably said that before we had any, maybe you said that before we had any evidence of it and you turned out to be right.

00:22:51.880 But I feel like that person, you, maybe you look at their life and they were a 9-11 truther and they were a Barack Obama birther and they, you know, they had a lot of these along the chain.

00:23:02.020 So you probably got a lot of family members who are like, oh, here she goes again, you know, right?

00:23:06.660 Like I know some of those people.

00:23:08.840 Right.

00:23:09.440 So surveys show that people that tick the box for one conspiracy theory are more likely to tick the box for a bunch of them or vice versa.

00:23:16.100 So somebody, and even crazier, my favorite paper that I, I, I wrote about in the book was called Alive and Dead.

00:23:23.360 People that tick the box that Princess Diana was murdered are also more likely to tick the box that she faked her death and is still alive somewhere with 25.

00:23:30.240 Oh, I love this too.

00:23:31.460 And JFK Jr.

00:23:33.060 That's right.

00:23:33.720 They're all, they're all living in Argentina, right?

00:23:35.960 Marilyn Monroe and so on.

00:23:37.920 Let's go there.

00:23:38.680 I know.

00:23:39.040 Well, part of it is wishful thinking.

00:23:40.380 I mean, that, that, that stuff is like part of it's wishful thinking.

00:23:42.680 And there's some of that, there's also what's called the proportionality bias.

00:23:46.320 That is, we, we expect effects that we observe to be matched with an equal size cause.

00:23:52.600 So just, just sort of our folk physics.

00:23:54.880 If I take a little pebble and throw it, I don't have to put much effort into it, but if I take a big rock, I have to really heave it.

00:24:01.460 And if I have a boulder, I've got to use all my might to throw it.

00:24:04.100 Right.

00:24:04.260 So there's kind of a equality of cause and effect.

00:24:06.960 And so, for example, if you ask subjects to roll, roll some dice.

00:24:10.740 Now try to roll a small number.

00:24:12.680 You know, and they'll kind of gently just droop the dice.

00:24:16.060 But if you say, try to roll a large number, they'll take the dice and really heave it as if somehow that has some magical effect.

00:24:22.260 Of course it doesn't, but that's kind of the folk psychology of it.

00:24:25.300 So in conspiracy theories, you know, someone like JFK being shot and taken out by who?

00:24:31.820 Some lone nut, Lee Harvey Oswald, that just doesn't match, right?

00:24:35.340 So you've got to add the FBI and the CIA and the KGB and the Russians and the mafia and Castro.

00:24:40.240 And so there's kind of a match between cause and effect.

00:24:43.620 Or Princess Diana, cause of death, drunk driving, speeding, no seatbelt.

00:24:47.860 You know, tens of thousands of Americans die of that every year on American highways.

00:24:51.160 But princesses are not supposed to die like that, right?

00:24:53.520 So that'd be the royal family and MI6 and who knows who's involved in that.

00:24:57.780 And, you know, so but so if you take something like the Holocaust, one of the worst things

00:25:02.180 that's ever happened, the cause of that was the Nazi regime, one of the worst political

00:25:05.940 regimes in human history.

00:25:06.940 There's a match when there's not a match.

00:25:08.860 Then, you know, we feel we have to add elements to it.

00:25:12.000 No, it's fascinating.

00:25:13.080 My gosh, I you know, you mentioned Alex Jones.

00:25:15.980 He's been all over the news lately, and I know you were very interested in that case.

00:25:18.960 The defamation case is against him, first by Neil Heslin down in Texas, and now this other

00:25:23.900 one by many of the families still living in Connecticut in Connecticut court.

00:25:27.960 That's the one where he was he's faced with.

00:25:30.300 He was faced with a 50 million dollar judgment down in Texas and then came a nearly billion

00:25:34.800 dollar judgment against him in Connecticut.

00:25:37.020 And he live streamed the verdict.

00:25:39.560 Alex Jones did.

00:25:40.480 He talked all.

00:25:41.240 I mean, absurd things he was saying about the families and so on, even like to the to

00:25:46.200 the last, what do you make of him?

00:25:48.920 Because he's I've said this before.

00:25:51.520 I interviewed him, of course.

00:25:52.940 I went down there.

00:25:53.940 I remember he said a lot of crazy shit.

00:25:55.800 I went back home to NBC.

00:25:57.480 We fact checked all of it.

00:25:59.160 A lot of it turned out to be true.

00:26:00.700 A lot of I was like, he's a lunatic.

00:26:02.400 And then my team at NBC, which is top notch in terms of their, you know, adherence to facts

00:26:06.320 and research, they were like, oh, my God, what?

00:26:10.360 Look, they really are merging humans and pigs.

00:26:12.840 I can't remember the specifics, but it was like there's a little goat with a human face.

00:26:15.920 I don't quote me on that.

00:26:18.160 I'm just saying he had a lot of stuff and we were expecting none of it to check out

00:26:22.300 and a lot of it checked out.

00:26:24.420 And to me, that explained why people got sucked into his rhetoric on something like Sandy

00:26:29.440 Hook, because he's not all wrong all the time.

00:26:33.800 Right.

00:26:34.000 And most conspiracy theories are not complete nonsense, right?

00:26:37.420 There's always a little bit of an element of truth.

00:26:39.400 I mentioned the Jeffrey Epstein case with Clinton on the plane going to that island.

00:26:44.360 And is there some connection there?

00:26:46.180 Right.

00:26:46.320 And before you know it, you're in the pizza gate.

00:26:48.960 Much of his rhetoric is like that.

00:26:51.200 He and remember, he's on there for hours every day, just spitballing 100 ideas a day.

00:26:57.180 And so if your team fact checks and they're going to inevitably find some element of truth

00:27:01.740 about one or two of them or some of them or even a bunch of them.

00:27:05.320 Right.

00:27:05.520 And and also there's a conflation of of intent or motive behind the alleged conspiracies there.

00:27:13.400 So just take something like the 9-11 truth movement.

00:27:16.340 You know, they they they debate about to what extent they think it's an inside job by the

00:27:20.500 Bush administration as a false flag operation to as an excuse to invade Iraq, Afghanistan

00:27:25.920 and Iraq, but mainly Iraq.

00:27:27.980 OK, so they call this.

00:27:30.300 Did he let it happen on purpose?

00:27:31.920 Lie hop or did he make it happen on purpose?

00:27:34.560 My hop.

00:27:35.600 Well, my answer to this is neither.

00:27:37.620 It's it's what I call cow hop capitalized on what happened on purpose.

00:27:42.700 And this is true.

00:27:43.800 This is what politicians do.

00:27:45.700 You know, when after Pearl Harbor, Roosevelt was accused of either letting it happen on purpose

00:27:50.380 or making it happen on purpose as a pretext to supporting Great Britain in the war against

00:27:55.120 Nazi Germany and, you know, he couldn't get the congressional approval to go to war and

00:27:59.900 so on.

00:28:00.880 American firsters were were isolationists and, you know, he needed some pretext.

00:28:05.300 So Pearl Harbor happened and he took advantage of that.

00:28:08.120 He capitalized on what happened.

00:28:09.520 He didn't make it happen.

00:28:10.380 He didn't know.

00:28:11.460 Same thing with Bush.

00:28:12.500 Right.

00:28:12.740 He didn't know 9-11 was going to happen.

00:28:14.920 And in hindsight, with hindsight bias, you have that memo from Condoleezza Rice, August 9th,

00:28:19.800 2001, Al Qaeda to attack you on U.S. soil.

00:28:23.860 Well, so they knew about it.

00:28:25.960 Why didn't he do something about it?

00:28:27.280 Yet with hindsight, you know, there's a thousand pieces of intel collected by the CIA every day.

00:28:33.100 Which ones are the ones that in hindsight turn out to be true?

00:28:36.280 You point to it.

00:28:37.020 But but of course, without hindsight, you don't know which one is going to turn out to be true.

00:28:41.460 So it's not fair to someone like Bush for that.

00:28:43.880 But of course, he did capitalize on what happened for other political reasons.

00:28:48.960 And so one of the things that bothers me about conspiracy theories like this is they're distracting

00:28:54.340 us from real things, you know, real things like what is the relationship of the U.S.

00:28:58.020 government to the to the Saudi regime?

00:29:00.560 What exactly is going on there?

00:29:02.360 What about the finances and money and oil?

00:29:05.060 And, you know, that's what people really do want to kill us and what what we could have

00:29:09.120 been doing to stop it, as opposed to running this false flag that we did it ourselves and

00:29:13.520 not examining that as robustly as we ought to.

00:29:16.360 Yeah, exactly right.

00:29:18.460 So, you know, again, this this proportionality bias, you know, you're telling me 19 guys

00:29:24.060 with box cutters brought down the World Trade Center buildings.

00:29:26.940 That just seems impossible.

00:29:28.580 Right.

00:29:29.000 But in fact, in a free society, that is the way it would happen, that these are people

00:29:33.080 are largely invisible in the nooks and crannies of a democracy like ours.

00:29:36.840 You can get away with that.

00:29:38.240 Instead, we're told that, you know, it was an inside job.

00:29:41.200 OK, so who how did they do this?

00:29:43.020 So here's our our signal detection problem.

00:29:45.580 How many people would have to be involved to plant explosive devices in the World Trade

00:29:49.300 Center buildings?

00:29:49.900 Right.

00:29:50.140 We know how this is done.

00:29:51.320 You know, it would take hundreds of people, if not thousands would have to be involved.

00:29:54.480 They have to break through the drywall of the building to plant explosive devices in the

00:29:58.280 structural beams.

00:29:59.040 And no one seemed to notice this happening.

00:30:01.120 And then they'd have to plant the explosive devices at the exact floors that the planes

00:30:05.960 hit, because on the videos, you can see the buildings begin to collapse at those floors.

00:30:10.580 Right.

00:30:10.960 So they would have to coordinate all of this with the pilots that are flying the planes

00:30:14.640 or their drone planes.

00:30:15.940 And by the way, there are there are no planer conspiracy theorists.

00:30:19.480 There were no planes.

00:30:20.300 This is all CGI.

00:30:21.720 And oh, wow.

00:30:22.460 Really?

00:30:23.180 Yeah.

00:30:23.640 Yeah.

00:30:23.860 It's crazy.

00:30:24.540 God.

00:30:24.940 Can I just ask, like, are those people functional?

00:30:27.280 Are those people maintaining nine to five jobs?

00:30:30.040 And, you know, are those or they loons who can't they don't have a home?

00:30:33.740 It's tempting to say they're, you know, wackadoodle weirdos with their tinfoil hats.

00:30:37.780 But no, in fact, most of the people I've met, JFK conspiracy theorists, 9-11 truthers, the

00:30:42.900 Obama birthers, you know, all the way up to the rigged election 2020.

00:30:46.800 You know, these are largely intelligent, educated people with jobs.

00:30:50.140 But I would separate those out.

00:30:50.800 I would separate those out.

00:30:51.660 I mean, I can make arguments on all those.

00:30:53.000 And I interviewed RFK Jr., who's coming back on tomorrow.

00:30:56.220 That's the one that I mentioned we had pre-taped.

00:30:59.120 And he he that, you know, his father was assassinated.

00:31:02.580 That was his uncle.

00:31:03.640 JFK was assassinated down in Texas.

00:31:05.420 He believes it was the military industrial complex.

00:31:07.520 He believes it was the CIA and so on, the intelligence groups.

00:31:11.500 Now, I don't know if that makes my conspiracies.

00:31:13.480 There is so much as somebody who is the son of the AG who was murdered, whose president was

00:31:19.420 murdered, you know, and all that.

00:31:20.680 Like, he's got real reasons to believe.

00:31:22.260 I don't know.

00:31:22.620 I just feel like can't lump them all in.

00:31:24.100 I'm talking about the true lunatics who, as you just said, think that the 9-11 attack

00:31:29.360 didn't even involve planes, that even those people who witnessed it with their actual eyes

00:31:34.560 on sight are sort of in on it and that the rest of us just saw a computer simulator.

00:31:38.680 Like, that's a special category of out there.

00:31:41.220 Yes.

00:31:41.420 Yes.

00:31:42.120 That's way out there for sure.

00:31:43.840 So what about those people?

00:31:44.840 Like, would I know that such a person was a little off if I met him?

00:31:49.180 Maybe.

00:31:49.660 I mean, if you went to a Flat Earth Society conference, again, maybe they seem a little

00:31:54.480 off, but most of them have jobs, right?

00:31:56.900 They have families and so on.

00:31:58.120 They keep gas in the tank and they take the kids to school and they go to work.

00:32:03.000 That's not the problem.

00:32:03.980 The problem is a kind of a broken epistemology, as it's sometimes called, just knowing how to

00:32:08.180 think about things rationally.

00:32:10.380 So if you just take something, let's take the JFK thing, okay?

00:32:14.400 So there is a history of people attempting to assassinate leaders.

00:32:18.680 This happens all the time in history.

00:32:20.420 And Lincoln, of course, was assassinated by a cabal, and we discovered that within hours.

00:32:25.800 And other presidents have been attempted to be assassinated.

00:32:29.980 But why is there, for example, to give the counterfactual?

00:32:32.800 Why are there no conspiracy theories about John Hinckley attempting to assassinate Ronald Reagan?

00:32:38.580 Well, because he missed, right?

00:32:41.000 I mean, he didn't kill him.

00:32:42.140 Well, he missed, but he didn't kill him.

00:32:43.900 I mean, he didn't miss, but he didn't kill him.

00:32:45.600 I mean, had he killed him, had Reagan died, I predict there would have been this massive

00:32:49.960 conspiracy.

00:32:50.420 Who was behind this guy?

00:32:51.940 You know, why was he allowed to stand there on the sidewalk as Reagan walked out of that

00:32:55.500 hotel?

00:32:56.520 You know, or Squeaky From, one of Manson's girls that attempted to kill President Ford.

00:33:01.840 Well, she missed.

00:33:02.820 But had she killed him, okay, what was she doing?

00:33:05.200 Who was behind her?

00:33:06.000 The CIA?

00:33:06.820 Weren't they following Manson?

00:33:07.980 That's because of the proportionality, you said.

00:33:10.340 Right.

00:33:10.740 Exactly.

00:33:11.400 Right.

00:33:11.960 So had Kennedy not been killed that day in Dealey Plaza, let's say Oswald missed or just

00:33:17.280 wounded him, or let's say it was the mayor of Dallas that was killed that day.

00:33:22.740 Would there be conspiracy theories?

00:33:24.620 Would Oliver Stone be making documentary, four-hour documentary films about the CIA and

00:33:29.440 the military industrial?

00:33:30.880 No, none of this would be happening.

00:33:32.580 It's because it was Kennedy.

00:33:33.840 No, if it was the mayor, you'd know that the CIA is not interested in the mayor.

00:33:38.100 You know, it's like the bigger it gets, the more likely it is that somebody nefarious

00:33:42.140 and large and powerful might be involved.

00:33:44.440 It's impossible.

00:33:45.100 You know, some Joe Schmo on the street, it's not going to be the CIA.

00:33:48.980 All right, stand by, because there's much more to get to.

00:33:51.000 I know you've written a lot.

00:33:51.880 I find it fascinating.

00:33:53.020 You're all fired up about the Leah Thomases of the world going into women's sports,

00:33:56.680 and there is an egregious, egregious example on the volleyball court that I want to get

00:34:02.360 your take on as Michael Schirmer stays with us.

00:34:10.340 So, Michael, you've written a lot.

00:34:12.300 This is interesting to me that you've got strong feelings on biological men participating

00:34:16.280 in women's sports after they declare themselves trans.

00:34:19.780 And there's been an egregious example of this in the news just this weekend, where a high

00:34:25.920 schooler, okay, let me make sure I get the facts right.

00:34:29.400 This is from The Blaze.

00:34:31.660 It's out of Cherokee County, North Carolina, where a transgender player, male to female,

00:34:36.260 it's always male to female, spiked a ball so forcefully that it caused severe injuries

00:34:42.240 to a young girl's head and neck.

00:34:44.760 There is low quality video of the incident.

00:34:47.120 You can see it here for the YouTube audience.

00:34:48.660 That's the trans player in the green, slamming the ball.

00:34:52.380 It hits her in the face.

00:34:54.080 She goes down hard.

00:34:56.180 You can tell it's an unusually hard hit.

00:34:59.740 And now, so the player collapsed, stayed down for a long amount of time, and now we just got

00:35:05.740 this, again, per The Blaze, that reports, stand by, get my facts, that the girl is said to be

00:35:14.000 still experiencing long-term concussion symptoms, including vision problems, etc., has not been

00:35:20.460 cleared to return to play, either by a physician or a neurologist.

00:35:25.360 And I think, Kelly McGuire, did you tell me that they're not playing that team?

00:35:29.580 They've halted play against that team?

00:35:31.340 Yeah.

00:35:31.480 For now, they've halted all further play against this team with the trans player.

00:35:35.760 Can you believe this?

00:35:38.700 Well, I can believe it because of how strong ideology is in pushing us into these kinds

00:35:45.740 of unfortunate situations.

00:35:48.260 I predicted this over a year ago, but I was using MMA as an example.

00:35:53.700 If a male to female trans competed in an MMA competition and actually killed another woman

00:36:00.240 or severely injured her and lawsuits ensued, that would put an end to the movement.

00:36:05.040 And maybe this volleyball example, I hadn't seen that one, might do it because with physical

00:36:11.160 damage like that and concussions we know are very serious, that could end up in lawsuits

00:36:16.280 and then that'll bring the movement to an end.

00:36:18.540 When I say the movement, I mean the kind of expansion of our concept of moral rights to

00:36:26.860 include LGBTQ gay rights and so on, same-sex marriage, is the next step to protect trans

00:36:34.100 people.

00:36:34.780 Yes, okay, in general, that seems right and fair, right?

00:36:37.840 You shouldn't discriminate against people based on their gender or sexual preference or orientation

00:36:44.060 and so forth.

00:36:44.900 But as Thomas Sowell says about society, there are no perfect solutions, there's just trade-offs.

00:36:51.840 So this is what I call conflicting rights issues, that the rights of trans in this case are

00:36:57.360 conflicting against the rights of women to compete against other women, for which women

00:37:01.120 fought for for decades, Title IX protection and so on.

00:37:04.720 Back when I was in high school and college, the amount of funding for women's sports was pretty

00:37:10.340 pretty low in the 70s and it's gotten much better.

00:37:14.060 So, and there's a reason for that and most of our intuitions as reflected in polls that

00:37:19.160 say, you know, the vast majority of Americans are against male to female trans competing against

00:37:24.880 biological women because they're not biological women, they're biological men post-puberty.

00:37:30.280 And that's the problem.

00:37:32.560 And so somebody's going to get hurt.

00:37:34.500 And this case you just showed could be an example of that.

00:37:37.220 And didn't you have somebody on, a Frisbee golf player recently?

00:37:40.560 Yeah, same thing.

00:37:42.280 I mean, you know, just the structure of shoulders, muscles, tendons, bones, ligaments, and so

00:37:49.100 on.

00:37:49.220 They're different.

00:37:49.960 Post-puberty, women are not the same as men.

00:37:53.420 They're overlapping bell curves.

00:37:54.600 You can always find some women that are better than some men, but we're talking about on average.

00:37:59.120 And when you get up into the upper echelons of, say, the top 1% or top 0.01% of athletes,

00:38:04.800 you know, those differences are huge and it's just not fair.

00:38:08.680 It's just not.

00:38:09.660 This is what's so egregious because it's one thing, the Leah Thomas situation was bad enough,

00:38:14.160 right?

00:38:14.340 That was bad enough.

00:38:15.160 But at least Leah Thomas swims in Leah Thomas's own lane.

00:38:19.220 And can't hurt anybody.

00:38:20.960 This, I mean, you really have to say to parents now, if a trans athlete shows up to play against

00:38:28.900 your daughter, you've really got to think about getting up and walking out and taking

00:38:35.020 her with you.

00:38:36.160 I really think I'd say to my daughter, you may not play against that player.

00:38:41.220 That is not safe for you.

00:38:43.140 And parents won't do it, even though they may want to, because they don't want to offend

00:38:49.040 So it's like, you're placing your kids, your kids' safety below your PC instincts.

00:38:56.920 Mm-hmm.

00:38:57.620 Right.

00:38:58.080 A lot of Leah Thomas's female teammates were afraid to speak out.

00:39:03.060 Now some of them have.

00:39:04.000 And thankfully, I think that because the International Swimming Organization banned male to female

00:39:10.200 trans post-puberty from competing.

00:39:12.860 So that was a good move.

00:39:13.920 And I think that will be the direction, ultimately.

00:39:16.280 It may have to be nudged along by lawsuits in cases like this.

00:39:19.820 But it's certainly, just imagine women's tennis.

00:39:24.120 We just celebrated Serena Williams' retirement after her massive career.

00:39:29.500 She would have had no career if there were no female.

00:39:32.600 None.

00:39:33.120 None.

00:39:33.380 No one would have even heard of her.

00:39:34.320 She wouldn't have made a dime.

00:39:35.020 So it's true, the physical harm, but there's also financial harm.

00:39:40.240 You know, if you're competing for, even on college sports, if you're competing for sponsorships

00:39:46.060 or fellowships, tuition scholarships, based on your athletic performance, and college costs

00:39:52.460 you, what, $50,000, $60,000 a year, and you don't get the money because somebody beat

00:39:57.120 you on the court or on the field, then that is harmful.

00:40:00.920 You said that this, you call this the unmistakable, undeniable, unethical, unfairness.

00:40:08.260 That's what this is, this dynamic.

00:40:11.280 Unmistakable, undeniable, unethical, unfairness.

00:40:13.820 That is nothing more than cheating.

00:40:16.840 It's cheating to win.

00:40:18.100 You call people like Leah Thomas trans dopers, which I think is a very effective term.

00:40:24.200 And as we've learned from Chris Ruffo, language in these debates does matter.

00:40:28.220 They are trans dopers because they have a testosterone advantage no woman would be allowed to compete

00:40:33.880 with.

00:40:34.480 And even if they can lower it, even if they can lower it, they never lower it to where

00:40:37.920 a woman actually is.

00:40:39.140 But that doesn't get rid of their limbs and their muscles and their height and all the

00:40:43.400 other physical advantages they have post-puberty.

00:40:46.660 Massive differences, right?

00:40:48.000 So I use that analogy because I'm a lifelong cyclist.

00:40:50.800 And of course, as you know, in our sport, there was massive doping issues, performance enhancing

00:40:54.860 drugs.

00:40:55.240 And the fact is, if you are post-puberty and you've had that huge changes made in your

00:41:03.060 body across the board, a thousand changes in the body from pre to post-puberty, and then

00:41:08.420 you say, well, I'm going to take a year off like the NCAA required and do the testosterone

00:41:13.080 suppressant treatment and so forth.

00:41:15.460 It's too late.

00:41:16.580 It doesn't make that big a difference.

00:41:18.420 There's maybe a 1% or 2%, maybe 5% decrease in the athlete's performance pre and post-testosterone

00:41:26.380 suppression treatment.

00:41:27.540 But that doesn't change the thousand other things in their body.

00:41:30.800 Their bones are already big and strong and muscles and ligaments and tendons, oxygen capacity

00:41:35.700 and so on.

00:41:36.800 It would be exactly the equivalent of taking testosterone or human growth hormone or EPO

00:41:42.980 or whatever as a performance enhancing drug.

00:41:45.340 It does matter.

00:41:46.200 It makes a huge difference.

00:41:47.160 Those drugs are like a 10% difference in sports.

00:41:50.620 And so, and I would say probably puberty is more than 10%, depending on which sport you're

00:41:56.080 comparing male and female, but it's massive and it's just not fair.

00:41:59.120 And again, it's an on average difference.

00:42:00.960 You can, anecdotes don't help us.

00:42:02.680 Well, I know this woman that can beat most of the men.

00:42:05.120 We're not talking about that woman and most of the men we're talking about on average,

00:42:08.360 the top performers in the field.

00:42:11.620 It's just not fair.

00:42:12.900 And so it's just, it's just so, it's so wrong on so many levels.

00:42:16.700 I just, it's frustrating.

00:42:17.280 What's your proposed solution?

00:42:19.160 You know, what do you think parents, coaches, fellow athletes placed in this position should

00:42:24.460 do?

00:42:24.680 Well, boycott, just refuse to compete to say, look, if this person is in our, in, in the

00:42:31.920 competition, we're not going to compete.

00:42:33.600 All of them.

00:42:34.460 Okay.

00:42:34.580 So this is a common knowledge problem.

00:42:36.000 How does everybody know that they're supposed to do that?

00:42:38.860 Well, you have to have a kind of a coordination game.

00:42:41.220 That is the people have to say, agree ahead of time.

00:42:43.820 If this happens, you, all of us are going to boycott at once.

00:42:48.260 Cause if you, if, if there's no communication, you can't, uh, you rely on any one athlete

00:42:53.640 to be the person that stands up and says, I'm not going to compete.

00:42:56.440 Cause if everybody else goes, keeps their mouth shut, then, then that one person, um,

00:43:00.660 you know, is harmed.

00:43:02.480 And so that's not fair either.

00:43:04.080 Right.

00:43:04.440 So it has to be, how do you get, how do you get when, when you got like the woke, super

00:43:09.060 lefty, you know, high PC parents who are like, absolutely not.

00:43:14.160 I mean, we saw even other players, not so much at UPenn who actually had to swim against

00:43:18.420 Leah Thomas on their team, but from a couple of other schools to come out and say, it's

00:43:24.280 not all about, not everything's about winning.

00:43:26.200 You know, there's a greater principle here.

00:43:28.660 So you're going to get some who are going to give you that lecture.

00:43:31.540 Yeah.

00:43:31.760 What's the point of doing sports if you don't try to win, you know, that's the whole point

00:43:35.560 of games for most games, most sports anyways.

00:43:39.060 Try to win.

00:43:39.780 What's otherwise, why do it?

00:43:41.320 Just, just go recreational play by yourself or whatever.

00:43:44.920 But yeah, so that's not right.

00:43:46.780 Um, I think I do, I do think this too will pass hopefully, uh, you know, maybe it'll take

00:43:52.180 a decade total for the whole thing to play out because we've gone through these things

00:43:55.780 before the pendulum swings back and forth, goes to extreme people push back.

00:43:59.660 We do know recent surveys just from last week, you know, again, it's like 80% something

00:44:04.040 of Americans are against male and female trans competing against women and women's sports.

00:44:08.920 Even though the same majority also thinks trans should have rights and should not be fired

00:44:14.580 for being trans and discriminated against and so forth.

00:44:17.460 So it's not a rights issue.

00:44:19.340 It's, it's a justice and a fairness issue.

00:44:22.400 And, and just to remind people, folks like Leah Thomas have absolutely no compunction about

00:44:28.360 what they're doing.

00:44:29.080 No regrets, no guilt, no empathy for their fellow teammates and what they're putting them

00:44:34.340 through.

00:44:34.740 So as a reminder, here was Leah Thomas responding to her upset, uh, teammates in an interview

00:44:39.620 she did with ABC, uh, back when I was during or right before the NCAA's top five.

00:44:46.680 Women who signed the letter anonymously said that they absolutely supported your right to

00:44:52.660 transition, but they simply think it's unfair for you to compete against cisgendered women.

00:44:58.280 You can't go halfway and be like, I support trans women and trans people, but only, only to

00:45:06.620 a certain point where if you support trans women as women, and they've met all the, all

00:45:14.360 the NCAA requirements.

00:45:15.980 And then I don't know if you can really say something like that.

00:45:18.540 Trans women are not a threat to women's sports.

00:45:23.120 So deal with it.

00:45:24.520 All right, wait, I only have two minutes left.

00:45:25.780 So let me shift gears and ask you about Kanye because, you know, talk about conspiracy,

00:45:30.480 like, like, well, you listen to him.

00:45:32.580 He genuinely believes there's the cabal of Jewish people controlling these industries.

00:45:37.120 Yes.

00:45:37.300 Now we finally apologize for it, but you know, what do you make of his comments?

00:45:42.120 Yeah, I saw the, uh, you know, uh, uh, attribution that he's bipolar.

00:45:45.840 So we have to forget that.

00:45:47.340 No, it's wrong.

00:45:49.040 You know, this is antisemitism.

00:45:50.700 It's as old as, as civilization really, uh, it goes back thousands of years that Jews have

00:45:54.980 always been accused of doing things.

00:45:57.140 And, uh, and also there was in the, in the black community back in the nineties when Louis

00:46:03.220 Farrakhan, uh, you can see the, our, our cover painting by Pat of Louis Farrakhan there, uh,

00:46:09.800 you know, accusing the Jews of doing this and doing that.

00:46:12.280 Uh, and, you know, so much of conspiracy theories involve Jews.

00:46:16.240 It's just, you know, we have to stomp that out.

00:46:18.620 We have to just stand up and say, no, that is wrong.

00:46:21.660 You can't say that.

00:46:22.820 Stop saying that you're lying.

00:46:24.400 It's not true.

00:46:25.780 And if not, because then again, there'll be harm committed.

00:46:29.480 It's not good.

00:46:30.540 Right.

00:46:30.760 Exactly.

00:46:31.280 There's already like banners going up on certain bridges and roads by crazy, like KKK.

00:46:37.020 In LA of all places.

00:46:38.160 Come on.

00:46:39.080 Right.

00:46:39.340 So somebody as famous and well-known and successful as Kanye starts saying this.

00:46:43.000 And unfortunately it does become a permission slip for the, the, the, the crazy groups

00:46:49.120 who are devoting their lives to this to get more active.

00:46:51.900 So you do need to pay attention.

00:46:53.160 And even though you might not be able to talk Kanye or anybody else out of their beliefs,

00:46:56.900 you can make clear that there are certain lines we're not going to cross as a society.

00:47:00.500 And anybody thinking about toying with it, uh, is going to be pushed hard, uh, out of,

00:47:05.640 we all need to stand up and say something.

00:47:07.400 Yep.

00:47:07.840 Yeah.

00:47:08.320 All right, Michael, what a pleasure.

00:47:09.540 Thank you so much for being here.

00:47:10.660 Good luck.

00:47:11.060 The book is called Conspiracy.

00:47:13.000 Always a pleasure.

00:47:14.620 Thank you.

00:47:15.760 Coming up.

00:47:16.620 Senator Ted Cruz is here.

00:47:17.940 He just got protested over on the view and yelled at while attending a Yankees Astros

00:47:24.540 game last night at Yankee stadium.

00:47:26.140 What?

00:47:27.040 Don't forget.

00:47:27.820 We'll ask him all about that.

00:47:29.160 And in the meantime, don't forget if you want to find more Ted Cruz, you can see him on

00:47:32.440 the Megan Kelly show.

00:47:33.200 He's been here a couple of times along with a million other great guests, people who help

00:47:36.740 make us what we are on Sirius XM triumph channel one 11 every weekday at noon East.

00:47:41.060 Check us out on YouTube and there you'll find our full archives too on YouTube and on Apple

00:47:46.700 and so on.

00:47:50.940 Joining me now, Texas Senator Ted Cruz.

00:47:53.760 He was just with our friends over on the view.

00:47:56.080 We'll ask him why he did that.

00:47:57.560 And protesters started going nuts in the audience.

00:48:00.200 Maybe that's why we're going to play it for you.

00:48:02.020 His brand new book, Justice Corrupted, How the Left Weaponized Our Legal System, is out

00:48:07.620 tomorrow.

00:48:08.560 Senator Cruz, great to have you back here on the show.

00:48:11.120 Megan, thanks for having me.

00:48:11.980 Great to be with you.

00:48:12.880 Why'd you do it?

00:48:13.860 Why go over there?

00:48:15.400 That is not your those are not your people.

00:48:18.500 Well, look, I mean, I think we need to be talking to the whole country.

00:48:21.000 And I think conservatives spent too much time just just preaching to the choir.

00:48:24.920 I think it's important to have a real and civil conversation and actually get to substance.

00:48:30.280 You know, so you could turn from the choir to the congregation instead of going right

00:48:35.740 into the pits of hell.

00:48:37.220 Well, but I got to say for some of the viewers of the view, you know, they've never heard

00:48:41.900 another another side.

00:48:43.200 So, for example, Whoopi was going on and on about, well, you know, Republicans contest the

00:48:50.420 legitimacy of the election.

00:48:51.600 Will you say Joe Biden is legitimate?

00:48:53.140 And I put it, I said, wait a second, why is there a double standard?

00:48:56.160 Why don't you apply this to Democrats, Democrat after Democrat?

00:48:59.260 Hillary Clinton sat there on the view and said Donald Trump was illegitimate election.

00:49:03.400 Stacey Abrams sat there on the view and said that Brian Kemp was illegitimate elected.

00:49:08.040 And all of the women on the view nodded along and agreed with it.

00:49:11.140 And I said, how can it be that you only think?

00:49:14.480 And by the way, Whoopi jumped in and said, well, they were those were illegitimate.

00:49:17.260 And I said, well, it's only legitimate if the Democrat wins, but not if the Republican

00:49:21.860 wins.

00:49:22.280 And I think it was important for some of their viewers at least to to hear something other

00:49:27.540 than the straight party line.

00:49:29.600 I can't tell.

00:49:30.400 I haven't seen it yet.

00:49:31.140 I just was told about it by my team.

00:49:32.980 I can tell whether the person protesting you was upset with you or is just a left wing

00:49:36.680 loon.

00:49:37.420 Here's the soundbite and we'll talk about it.

00:49:39.860 It's very simple.

00:49:40.520 If you look at inflation, the Nobel laureate economist Milton Friedman explained that the

00:49:45.020 United States inflation has one cause and one cause on inflation in the United States has

00:49:54.820 one cause and one cause.

00:49:56.680 And that is when the federal government spends too much money.

00:50:00.180 OK.

00:50:00.420 We have seen trillions and trillions of dollars spent by Joe Biden, the Democrats.

00:50:05.360 So finally, Whoopi has to tell him to shut up.

00:50:07.480 I don't know what they're saying and I don't want to promote their group, but they're upset

00:50:09.920 about climate change.

00:50:11.180 Yeah.

00:50:11.420 Look, they were climate protesters.

00:50:13.460 As far as I can tell, they were not even directed at me.

00:50:15.640 They were actually protesting the view.

00:50:17.100 But obviously, my being there gave them a hook to show up.

00:50:20.340 And so they were, you know, I joked afterwards.

00:50:22.700 I'm glad they didn't have a Van Gogh painting hanging in the background.

00:50:26.060 These nuts might have thrown soup on it.

00:50:27.920 The Monet painting that just got attacked by these loons.

00:50:30.500 I was relieved to see that after they did that, the painting wasn't damaged because they

00:50:35.540 chose a painting that had glass in front of it.

00:50:37.660 I'd like to hope they did that intentionally because that's what happened a couple weeks

00:50:41.180 ago.

00:50:41.540 But look at these assholes.

00:50:42.980 I'm sorry.

00:50:43.500 Forgive me, Senator.

00:50:44.020 I shouldn't see it anywhere in front of you.

00:50:45.800 That's horrific.

00:50:46.680 And obviously, you know, when you're dealing with masterpieces and great works of art, that

00:50:50.680 they're literally destroying them for humanity.

00:50:53.580 Now, you're right.

00:50:54.160 It had glass on it.

00:50:55.480 So the painting itself is preserved.

00:50:57.320 The frame is not.

00:50:58.120 And often the frame has historical significance as well with the painting.

00:51:01.500 But these people are just radical.

00:51:04.500 You know, I have to say, you know, they keep gluing their hands to the walls.

00:51:08.120 I'd really like one of these museums simply to come in, remove the paintings, clear out

00:51:12.060 the room and just leave them there.

00:51:13.260 You know, just leave them there for a week or so.

00:51:15.460 You know, maybe give them some water.

00:51:16.560 But they glue themselves to the wall.

00:51:18.400 I guess they can figure out what the solution is.

00:51:20.120 Because it'd have to have like a little straw in it.

00:51:23.800 I like your plan.

00:51:25.560 All right.

00:51:26.080 So before we get to the news, because there's so much to discuss, President Biden gave an

00:51:29.260 interview that made a lot of headlines.

00:51:30.680 What happened at Yankee Stadium?

00:51:32.000 They yelled at you there, too.

00:51:32.960 I mean, they yell at everybody in your defense.

00:51:34.980 But I guess it got a little tense.

00:51:37.380 All right.

00:51:37.580 Last night was spectacular.

00:51:38.980 Listen, I'm a diehard Astros fan.

00:51:41.140 And so I went to game two of the series in Houston.

00:51:44.120 And then last night I went to game four up in Yankee Stadium.

00:51:46.800 And I knew I was going into the belly of the beast.

00:51:49.600 I was in bright orange Astros colors.

00:51:52.040 And you deserved it.

00:51:53.540 That's what I'm saying.

00:51:54.140 You deserved it.

00:51:54.860 And I have to admit, look, I mean, the Strohs, we swept them in four games.

00:51:58.440 And every time we got a hit, I was up cheering.

00:52:01.320 And so I will say there were a lot of people suggesting I do things that are actually, I think, anatomically impossible.

00:52:08.060 But you know what was actually really encouraging?

00:52:12.840 There were a ton of people who was also coming up and wanting to take selfies.

00:52:16.020 And I didn't know some guy would take a swing at me or something.

00:52:19.340 And thankfully, that never happened.

00:52:20.680 I saw a few middle fingers.

00:52:22.740 But frankly, if you're an Astros fan at a Yankees game, you got to expect that.

00:52:28.000 You know what you're getting.

00:52:29.840 I guess we have that video.

00:52:31.140 I don't know.

00:52:31.480 All right.

00:52:31.980 All these lovely walks down memory lane for you.

00:52:34.640 Here we go.

00:52:35.140 Here it is.

00:52:37.360 Fuck you.

00:52:38.300 You racist piece of shit.

00:52:40.660 Fuck you.

00:52:42.080 Oh, OK.

00:52:42.540 Fuck you, man.

00:52:43.580 You suck.

00:52:44.400 You fucking suck, dude.

00:52:45.920 You're a disgrace.

00:52:47.300 You're going to fucking hell, dude.

00:52:49.480 Everyone Trump called your wife ugly.

00:52:51.980 Oh, nice.

00:52:52.880 Everyone Trump called your wife ugly and then you nominated him.

00:52:56.080 You're a disgrace.

00:52:56.840 Fuck you.

00:52:58.160 You nominated him.

00:52:59.260 All right.

00:52:59.420 So they're not that well versed in how the Senate's role works.

00:53:02.600 But OK.

00:53:03.060 Well, and I'll say, Megan, I have one word for that lovely individual and a few of his

00:53:06.820 compatriots.

00:53:07.480 And that one word is scoreboard.

00:53:09.560 You know, I just saw a stat today that the Astros are the only team in history to have

00:53:14.980 eliminated the Yankees from postseason play four times.

00:53:19.480 I was there the last time we beat them in game six, which was awesome.

00:53:23.460 I've been to a bunch of the games with my youngest daughter, Catherine, who you know.

00:53:26.860 You know, Catherine.

00:53:27.540 Well, you've known her since she was a little bitty.

00:53:30.180 And I got to tell you, it's one of the coolest things.

00:53:33.100 So 2017 World Series, I got to go to games three, four and five.

00:53:37.840 Game three, I took my dad, which was totally cool to like do a father's son.

00:53:41.440 I grew up having Astros season tickets as a kid.

00:53:44.360 Game four, I took Heidi, which I adore Heidi.

00:53:46.960 But frankly, it was a waste.

00:53:47.900 She doesn't care about baseball and she was bored the whole time.

00:53:49.900 And I'm like, OK.

00:53:52.120 Mistake.

00:53:52.480 Game five, I took Catherine.

00:53:55.500 It was the day after her eighth birthday.

00:53:58.200 And it's an interesting testament to the time that it was.

00:54:01.780 2017, it was just Catherine and me.

00:54:04.080 We actually didn't have any security.

00:54:05.480 I've got security now just because the world has gone insane.

00:54:08.320 But then it was just the two of us in the stadium.

00:54:11.000 And if you remember game five, that was the one that went till about 1.30 in the morning.

00:54:14.460 And we're dancing and celebrating and hugging.

00:54:17.900 And I told her that day, I said, I said, sweetheart, you won't fully appreciate this now, but you will tell your grandkids that you were here.

00:54:26.200 You have just witnessed the greatest baseball game in the history of the Houston Astros.

00:54:30.000 That was six years ago.

00:54:32.440 And every season now in the postseason, I take Catherine.

00:54:35.740 It's become the best daddy-daughter bonding.

00:54:38.240 It is hard to find something I love more than going with Catherine to Astros postseason.

00:54:45.620 Well, I can honestly, I understand what you said about Heidi.

00:54:48.320 I was stuck with Doug one time watching the Super Bowl.

00:54:52.380 It was one of those ones where Tom Brady was leading the Patriots to a come from behind victory.

00:54:56.180 And, you know, it was like crazy Tom Brady, the Hail Mary thing.

00:54:59.880 And no one thought they were going to win.

00:55:01.400 They did win, thanks to him.

00:55:02.640 And we were sitting in this bar because we were at a charity event.

00:55:04.940 So we were like, we went out to this bar to watch.

00:55:06.440 It was just the two of us because it was like no man's land.

00:55:09.120 And it was crazy how good the throw was.

00:55:11.860 And I remember saying, he is so good at throwing.

00:55:17.420 Doug was like, is there anyone else I can talk to?

00:55:21.840 Anyone?

00:55:23.120 You can eat it, Catherine.

00:55:24.080 So Megan, when the University of Texas played USC for the national championship in the Rose Bowl, Heidi and I went to that game.

00:55:31.540 And it was actually the first football game she's ever been to.

00:55:33.900 She is not a big sports fan.

00:55:35.980 And that was an amazing game.

00:55:38.420 Vince Young dominated the game.

00:55:40.420 Texas won a national championship.

00:55:42.020 I remember in the middle of the game, Heidi looks at me and goes, that Vince Young guy is pretty good.

00:55:46.600 I'm like, yeah, yeah, he's not bad.

00:55:48.540 Well, it makes me laugh to think of the people like trying to intimidate you, because, of course, as I said in your intro, a guy who's argued before the U.S. Supreme Court more than a dozen times doesn't scare easy.

00:56:00.280 They are way scarier than anybody giving you the middle finger.

00:56:04.800 It's like you have to have nerves to steal to do that and not to mention all of your political experience.

00:56:10.760 So, yeah, wrong target.

00:56:12.000 But it did raise something that I want to ask you about, if you don't mind.

00:56:14.400 And that is they raised the Trump's insult of Heidi.

00:56:18.120 And, you know, that was a very ugly chapter.

00:56:20.500 And I remember tweeting about it and how wrong that was.

00:56:23.680 And but I do like I told a couple people, oh, Ted Cruz coming out on Monday.

00:56:27.020 And a couple of people were more left leaning.

00:56:28.540 But they said, how could he have forgiven Trump after that?

00:56:31.060 And I don't know if that's a question you get.

00:56:32.560 But what is the answer to that?

00:56:34.160 So it was actually a question I got just just an hour ago from from Anna Navarro.

00:56:37.880 And there you go.

00:56:39.360 And like I said, they're more or less leaning.

00:56:41.260 And listen, the answer is one you'll understand.

00:56:43.720 And you'll remember, well, 2016 was one hell of a primary.

00:56:49.160 Trump and I beat the living daylights out of each other.

00:56:51.200 We stood there and pounded over and over again.

00:56:53.780 I ended up winning 12 states and he ended up beating me.

00:56:56.500 And we both took hard, hard shots.

00:56:58.560 The shots he took at Heidi and my dad were were were garbage.

00:57:02.120 And I said it at the time.

00:57:03.240 But I have to admit, actually, both Heidi and my dad cracked up laughing about it.

00:57:06.480 They thought it was ridiculous.

00:57:08.000 And and then afterwards, once he won, he beat me.

00:57:11.520 And once he was elected president in November, I had a decision to make.

00:57:15.980 And my decision was, all right, am I going to do my job?

00:57:19.040 I've been elected to represent 30 million Texans.

00:57:22.260 I suppose I could say my feelings are hurt.

00:57:25.140 I'm going to take my ball and go home.

00:57:26.680 But you know what?

00:57:27.080 If I was prepared to do that, then I need to be prepared to resign from my job because

00:57:30.840 I can't effectively represent 30 million Texans and refuse to work with the president.

00:57:35.840 And and as you know, well, because because I was there, Trump attacked an insult to you

00:57:41.320 pretty nastily, too.

00:57:42.980 But you had a job to do.

00:57:44.020 You're a journalist.

00:57:44.600 So you couldn't have said, all right, I'm not going to cover the president of the United

00:57:47.540 States.

00:57:48.000 I I'm mad.

00:57:49.540 So to heck with my job, my responsibility.

00:57:51.600 You know, you were you were an adult and said, I got a job to do, whether you didn't

00:57:54.780 like what he said about you.

00:57:55.800 But, you know, life life moves on.

00:57:58.180 That's what I appreciate about you.

00:57:59.880 You didn't make it about yourself.

00:58:02.480 Yeah.

00:58:02.600 You chose not to make it about yourself.

00:58:04.940 I'm going to guess you don't go to bed at night with a little teddy bear that looks just

00:58:08.660 like Donald Trump and stroke his hair.

00:58:10.700 Like it doesn't matter.

00:58:12.000 That is a fair guess.

00:58:14.080 You decided to make it about your constituents, you know, and for me, too, like you made it

00:58:17.580 about your job and I made it about my job.

00:58:19.180 And the vast majority of people in the media industry did not do that.

00:58:24.220 And even some Republicans like the never Trumpers decided not to do that.

00:58:29.060 And it's one thing if you're not elected, but if you're elected to represent real Republicans,

00:58:33.320 you're there's a divergence there.

00:58:34.760 And Megan, I'll point out something.

00:58:36.600 There's a massive media double standard in hypocrisy because they only ask this question

00:58:41.800 of Republicans.

00:58:42.740 So if you remember back to the 2020 Democrat presidential debate, Kamala Harris stood on

00:58:47.640 the stage and called Joe Biden a racist.

00:58:50.360 She called him a bigot, said you were for segregation.

00:58:53.300 You were standing with segregation.

00:58:55.260 Don't you remember, Kamala?

00:58:55.920 I was that little girl.

00:58:57.740 That was her shining moment.

00:58:59.180 Now, she's perfectly happy to be vice president to the person she called a racist segregationist

00:59:03.980 bigot.

00:59:04.520 And I don't think I've ever once seen a corporate media reporter ask Kamala, well, do you still

00:59:10.180 think that and why are you willing to serve with him?

00:59:13.120 It's purely a gotcha game.

00:59:14.960 And it's kind of silly, frankly.

00:59:16.620 And not just Kamala, but Corrine Jean-Pierre, the White House press secretary, just last week

00:59:20.940 or the week before when that L.A. story broke of the racist councilwoman and the two guys

00:59:27.540 who listened to her racist comments about calling black children monkeys, she came out

00:59:32.740 to Corrine Jean-Pierre.

00:59:33.420 She was like, Democrats call out the bigots in their party.

00:59:37.440 Democrats fire the people, the bigots in their party, who are the people say racist things.

00:59:40.960 It's like, hello, you elected one president, according to the vice president.

00:59:44.720 Well, and I'll point out also, where was Corrine Jean-Pierre on Ralph Northam, the governor

00:59:52.260 of Virginia, the Democrat, who had in his yearbook, not just the blackface.

00:59:57.920 So the weird thing is, there was a picture of a guy in blackface, another picture of

01:00:01.400 a guy wearing a Ku Klux Klan regalia.

01:00:04.480 And when the story broke, and he put it on his page, like he selected that picture, his

01:00:08.880 first response is, he said, you know, I could have been one of those two guys.

01:00:12.960 I'm not sure.

01:00:14.420 And the media was very strange.

01:00:16.140 They all called it the blackface scandal.

01:00:18.000 I thought that was bizarre.

01:00:19.580 Like, if you cannot stand up and say with absolute certainty, I have never dressed as

01:00:24.660 a Klansman.

01:00:25.720 Like, holy crap, maybe you shouldn't be in public office.

01:00:28.860 And that's a big one.

01:00:30.060 It is an amazing, I actually talk about that in the new book, Justice Corrupted.

01:00:34.340 I talk about the Democrats' history on race.

01:00:37.340 You look at the Ku Klux Klan.

01:00:38.640 The Ku Klux Klan was founded by the Democrats.

01:00:40.720 Nathan Bedford Forrest, who led it, was a delegate to the 1860 National Democratic Convention.

01:00:48.360 The Klan consisted almost exclusively of Democrats.

01:00:52.420 The Jim Crow laws were written by Democrat politicians to prevent the voters from voting

01:00:57.960 Democrats out of office.

01:00:59.700 And the history, the Democrat Party has tragically trafficked in racism a long time.

01:01:06.720 And all of that gets ignored in the corporate media.

01:01:10.520 And they're still obsessed with race.

01:01:13.940 You write in the book about the affirmative action policies that they're pushing at every

01:01:17.920 turn, the critical race theory that they're shoving down the throats of our kids.

01:01:21.880 This big case is up to Supreme Court this term about whether they can continue using race

01:01:26.900 in college admissions.

01:01:28.760 First of all, as a lawyer and a very successful one, what do you make of that case?

01:01:32.140 How do you think that's likely to go?

01:01:33.820 So I think the plaintiffs are very likely to prevail.

01:01:36.780 Elite universities, especially Harvard and Yale, and unfortunately, I'm an alumnus of

01:01:41.220 Harvard, that they openly, nakedly, blatantly engage in racial discrimination, and in particular,

01:01:47.460 racial discrimination against Asian Americans.

01:01:49.500 They've decided if they let students in based on merits, that they think too many Asian Americans

01:01:55.280 would be admitted.

01:01:55.920 So they're going to discriminate against them.

01:01:57.660 And under President Trump, the Department of Justice opened an investigation into Yale

01:02:02.980 and their practices of discriminating against Asian Americans.

01:02:05.920 When Biden became president, one of the very first thing they did is dismiss the case.

01:02:09.920 They said, we don't care about it at all.

01:02:11.920 And I'll tell you, Megan, you may remember last year, there was a vote on the Senate floor

01:02:15.700 on a bill that was called an Asian American hate crimes bill.

01:02:18.760 And it was Maisie Hirona from Hawaii.

01:02:20.320 And it was all based on kind of a silly political point, which is they were trying to say that

01:02:25.460 hate crimes against Asian Americans are Donald Trump's fault because he referred to COVID

01:02:30.180 as the Wuhan virus because it came from Wuhan, China.

01:02:33.480 And it was sort of a political thumb in your eye.

01:02:36.760 So I introduced a very simple amendment on the Senate floor.

01:02:39.500 It was one paragraph.

01:02:40.580 And the amendment said, the federal government shall give no funds to any university that

01:02:45.580 discriminates in admissions or scholarships against Asian Americans.

01:02:49.600 Oh, wow.

01:02:50.960 We voted on it.

01:02:51.840 I missed that.

01:02:52.020 That's good.

01:02:53.080 Every single Democrat voted no.

01:02:56.020 It was a straight party line vote.

01:02:57.100 It failed by one vote.

01:02:58.140 To the best of my knowledge, I have never seen a single Democrat senator asked ever,

01:03:03.320 why did you vote in favor of racial discrimination against Asian Americans?

01:03:08.580 The corporate media just covers them up.

01:03:10.160 And the reason they vote that way is they know they'll be protected because journalists,

01:03:14.820 far too many of them have abandoned the job of actually holding people to account and telling

01:03:21.200 the truth.

01:03:22.200 Oh, my gosh.

01:03:22.520 It's so funny because like you think about it, you know, they say, oh, we talk about it

01:03:26.100 in these legal terms like race based admissions.

01:03:28.420 They would like to factor race in is what what's really happening is these universities are

01:03:33.100 essentially sitting there saying, if we if we get rid of this, all the Asians are going

01:03:37.060 to take up all the spots, got to get rid of all those Asians and all those Asians running

01:03:40.820 around Harvard.

01:03:41.400 That's what's happening.

01:03:42.800 Like, how is that not blatantly racist?

01:03:46.060 How could it possibly stand in 2022?

01:03:48.500 Well, and Harvard, unfortunately, has a long and ugly tradition.

01:03:51.400 You go back to the 40s and 50s and they had anti-Jewish quotas for the same reason.

01:03:55.360 They said, if we don't put quotas in, too many Jewish people will get in based on academic

01:04:00.100 merit.

01:04:00.620 So let's cap them.

01:04:01.740 It's the same ugly history of racism.

01:04:04.220 I also talk in the book, I talk about the history of critical race theory, which began

01:04:08.160 at Harvard Law School roughly the time I was there.

01:04:10.880 Kataji Brown Jackson and I were both in law school together.

01:04:13.540 She was a year behind me.

01:04:14.480 We're both on the law review together.

01:04:16.040 And I lay out the history of critical race theory.

01:04:19.660 But the Democrats embrace.

01:04:21.860 So critical race theory is a Marxist theory, but it's based not on the notion of equality.

01:04:26.860 It's based on what they call equity.

01:04:28.820 And equity means affirmatively embracing racial discrimination, discriminating against whoever

01:04:36.660 is deemed the dominant or oppressive classes.

01:04:40.980 And so I describe in the book, for example, there was a Biden judicial nominee, an Asian

01:04:44.960 American woman who was nominated to the district court.

01:04:47.820 And I asked her a simple question.

01:04:49.340 I said, is racial discrimination wrong?

01:04:51.700 She refused to answer.

01:04:52.760 I asked her three or four times.

01:04:53.720 She refused to answer.

01:04:54.760 Now, the reason she refused to answer is her student note, also written at Harvard.

01:05:00.460 She advocated in favor of discriminating against Asian Americans.

01:05:04.100 Now, mind you, she is Asian American.

01:05:05.520 And she writes how essentially Asian Americans who believe discrimination against them was wrong

01:05:12.560 were not sufficiently woke.

01:05:14.880 Woke was not a term then, but that's basically what she said, that they have bought into the

01:05:19.560 colonialist, oppressive mindset.

01:05:22.880 And they should, in the interest of equity, welcome being discriminated against.

01:05:27.980 Now, that is nutty.

01:05:29.580 And that, unfortunately, is where the Democrat Party is.

01:05:32.560 Yeah.

01:05:32.840 I mean, remember when Serena Williams' husband resigned from Reddit, a company I think he founded

01:05:37.420 from its board because he wanted to make room for more diverse people?

01:05:41.380 It's like, OK, so that's where we are.

01:05:43.360 Can I tell you this?

01:05:44.060 A friend of mine just sent this to me.

01:05:45.000 It's from the New York Post, I think, on Friday.

01:05:48.780 And I knew about this, but this is now in writing and it's spreading.

01:05:52.100 So Brearley, the Brearley School, this is one of those very Tony girl schools, 60 grand a

01:05:56.980 year.

01:05:57.380 But there are at least five schools in New York now doing it.

01:05:59.960 Not only do you have to, if you apply your daughter to Brearley, not only are you told

01:06:04.400 the parents are expected to attend two diversity, equity, inclusion and anti-racism workshops

01:06:09.400 per school year.

01:06:10.580 But you have to write a 500 word essay demonstrating your fealty to those values.

01:06:15.760 And then if your daughter gets in, you're expected to sign a pledge vowing to support

01:06:20.080 this new religion, writes the New York Post.

01:06:22.280 We expect teachers, staff members, parents, everybody to participate in anti-racist training

01:06:26.700 to pursue meaningful change through deliberate and measurable actions.

01:06:30.420 These will include identifying and eliminating policies, practices and belief that uphold racial

01:06:33.820 inequity in our community.

01:06:35.540 And then it goes on to say, you also must discuss with your child Brearley's mission,

01:06:40.540 diversity, equity and inclusion and anti-racist statements in the student handbooks and establishing

01:06:44.480 your family's responsibility to uphold these values.

01:06:49.280 This is crazy.

01:06:50.800 It really is.

01:06:52.280 And it's it's one of the things I talk about at length in the book is is critical race theory

01:06:56.900 is a Marxist theory, Marxism coming from the teachings of Karl Marx.

01:07:00.400 It began with believing in an economically deterministic view of the world that divided the world into

01:07:05.500 socioeconomic classes and the haves and have nots.

01:07:08.040 And the essence of Karl Marx is that the bourgeoisie, the owners of capital, are inherently oppressing

01:07:16.340 the proletariat, the working man.

01:07:18.040 And what they call for is is is an overthrow of capitalism and and replacing it with a communist

01:07:23.720 system.

01:07:24.400 Now, what happened subsequently to that is is communism failed all across the world and it produced

01:07:29.760 misery and poverty and suffering and death.

01:07:32.020 But it found a home in the Ivy League.

01:07:34.920 It found a home at Harvard Law School.

01:07:36.920 When I was at Harvard, Marxism had metastasized into what was called critical legal theory.

01:07:43.000 And it took the same Marxist lens, but but it broke it into it said the law is all about

01:07:49.440 enabling the owners of capital to oppress the working class.

01:07:53.680 Well, the next mutation of that was was critical race theory and it uses the same lens.

01:08:02.040 But instead of dividing us up based on on socioeconomic class, it divides us up based on race and critical

01:08:08.660 race theory says everything is about race and white people are inherently racist and discriminating

01:08:14.740 against black people.

01:08:15.800 And and everything in society should reverse that.

01:08:19.360 And one of the founders of critical race theory is this guy, Abraham Kendi, who I go through

01:08:23.500 his writings at length, who coined the word anti-racism, which is I got to give him a shout

01:08:29.460 out for very clever propaganda because, look, anti-racism.

01:08:33.500 How can you not be for that?

01:08:34.640 If you're anti anti-racism, doesn't that make you pro-racism?

01:08:38.000 But what he calls anti-racism is embracing we will discriminate against anyone we view as

01:08:46.060 a favored class in society.

01:08:49.560 And Ibrahim Kendi, by the way, is viciously racist.

01:08:54.600 He has written so racist.

01:08:56.480 He's written, among other things, that white people are fundamentally different and they

01:09:00.300 deliberately spread AIDS in the African-American community.

01:09:02.780 He's like accused that as a whole basis and and the viciousness of it.

01:09:09.440 He was the one who tweeted about Amy Coney Barrett adopting black children like she was

01:09:14.640 a colonizer and she was trying to impart her white values to I can't remember the insanity

01:09:19.380 of his.

01:09:19.760 Yes, but that's how he was thinking about Amy Coney Barrett as opposed to somebody, a white

01:09:23.580 woman who didn't object to or see the color of these black children, just wanted to give

01:09:27.900 them a good home.

01:09:28.520 He's also written that capitalism is inherently racist and and that you have to overthrow capitalism

01:09:36.960 to be anti-racist.

01:09:38.440 These are explicit Marxist and communist, and it is being taught in our schools.

01:09:43.380 It is being taught in corporations.

01:09:45.400 What's happening at Brearley, the sad thing is there are schools all across the country.

01:09:48.940 There's a whole business teaching this in schools.

01:09:52.180 And the book Justice Corrupted begins with Loudoun County, Virginia.

01:09:56.980 And you'll remember, your viewers will remember Loudoun County, Virginia, 14 year old girl

01:10:01.820 goes to school and she is sexually assaulted in the bathroom, the girl's bathroom by a boy

01:10:07.400 wearing a skirt.

01:10:08.440 And the school district covers it up, lies about it, insists it didn't happen.

01:10:12.760 In fact, they transfer the boy, the rapist, to another school where he sexually assaults

01:10:17.380 another little girl.

01:10:18.100 This guy was a recidivist.

01:10:19.900 The parents go to the school board in Loudoun County.

01:10:22.420 Both parents are understandably upset.

01:10:25.200 And the school board insists this has never happened.

01:10:27.560 No boy dressed in a skirt has ever assaulted anyone.

01:10:29.860 And they had an ideology that mattered more than taking care of the kids in their care.

01:10:34.180 And the father, understandably, is pissed off and says, look, my daughter was raped in

01:10:38.840 your school and you're covering it up.

01:10:40.780 And what happened?

01:10:41.820 They threw him on the ground.

01:10:43.120 They arrested him.

01:10:43.820 They handcuffed him.

01:10:44.960 And subsequently to that, the National Association of School Boards wrote a letter to Biden asking

01:10:51.260 the Department of Justice to target parents as domestic terrorists using the Patriot Act.

01:10:56.240 And six days later, Merrick Garland wrote a memo to the FBI saying, go after moms and

01:11:00.640 dads.

01:11:01.640 And if they go to a school board and express unhappiness with sexual assaults, unhappiness

01:11:06.600 with critical race theory, go interrogate them and treat them as suspects.

01:11:10.600 And, Megan, they're doing it right now.

01:11:12.400 The Biden FBI is interviewing and targeting parents all across the country.

01:11:16.580 That is an abuse of power.

01:11:18.320 They are?

01:11:19.020 Yes.

01:11:19.980 Yes.

01:11:20.260 No, they've admitted that they're actively if you're a mom or dad and you go you go to

01:11:24.700 your school board and you raise concerns, the FBI has gone and interviewed bunches of

01:11:29.160 those folks.

01:11:30.940 Merrick Garland hasn't backed away from this at all.

01:11:33.920 My goodness.

01:11:35.100 You don't see as many of those reports.

01:11:36.380 Of course, I followed the whole drama and they were doing it at the time.

01:11:39.240 I thought after they got publicly shamed and the school board group withdrew their

01:11:43.280 letter, he settled down on that.

01:11:45.840 I mean, Merrick Garland, you tell me, he seems like he's out of control.

01:11:49.260 I think that's exactly right.

01:11:50.920 I think Merrick Garland has done more damage to the Department of Justice than any attorney

01:11:56.120 general in history.

01:11:57.260 And the book begins with Richard Nixon.

01:12:00.680 I'm not a fan of Richard Nixon.

01:12:02.140 Richard Nixon tried to do this.

01:12:04.020 He tried to use DOJ and the FBI and the IRS to target his political enemies.

01:12:09.120 And so the first chapter goes into all the details of the corruption in Gordon Liddy.

01:12:13.840 Yeah.

01:12:14.200 And I mean, it's it's some weird stuff.

01:12:16.180 I mean, they they literally weird.

01:12:17.500 I was reading it like what?

01:12:18.660 Even I didn't know this stuff.

01:12:19.680 Look, they were giving LSD to people involuntarily, to homeless people.

01:12:23.380 I mean, it's bizarre.

01:12:24.180 Now, what happened, by and large, is the system mostly worked.

01:12:29.880 The FBI, the DOJ, the IRS resisted Nixon, said, no, we won't be used as a weapon to

01:12:36.080 target our enemies.

01:12:36.920 And Nixon resigned in disgrace.

01:12:39.280 Well, what Nixon tried to do, Barack Obama succeeded in doing.

01:12:44.980 And and he used the machinery of government to go after his political enemies.

01:12:48.660 After Obama, hard partisans burrowed into the senior career positions at DOJ and FBI and

01:12:55.260 the IRS.

01:12:56.020 And it's metastasized under Joe Biden during Trump.

01:13:00.100 The deep state warred against Trump.

01:13:02.140 And now under Biden, they are shamelessly using it as a political enforcement tool for

01:13:08.960 the DNC.

01:13:10.060 And that is so fundamentally destroying the integrity of DOJ and the FBI.

01:13:15.060 It is it is an absolute scandal.

01:13:18.000 And sadly, the corporate media altogether ignores it.

01:13:21.440 Can that be undone?

01:13:22.720 Yes.

01:13:23.420 Yes, I it definitely can be undone.

01:13:26.160 The first big step is going to be Election Day.

01:13:28.200 I think we're going to see Republican majorities in both the House and Senate.

01:13:31.780 You do.

01:13:32.560 I do.

01:13:33.360 I'm in the middle of a 17 state month long national bus tour.

01:13:38.500 So I'm doing rallies all over the country for candidates for the Senate, candidates for the

01:13:42.180 House.

01:13:42.460 I think we're going to see a tidal wave election on the order of magnitude of 2010.

01:13:48.840 Wow.

01:13:49.440 When how many how many seats are the Republicans going to have the Senate by?

01:13:53.840 I think it is anywhere between 50 and 57.

01:13:57.280 If you if you push me to pick a number, I'd probably pick 53 is where I think we'll end

01:14:01.520 up.

01:14:01.920 53.

01:14:02.480 What do you think it's going to be?

01:14:03.400 What?

01:14:03.560 Arizona, Nevada?

01:14:05.160 So I think Nevada is the most Nevada is the most likely pickup in the country.

01:14:09.060 I think Adam Laxalt is really strong.

01:14:10.640 I've done a bunch of rallies with him.

01:14:12.600 I think probably the second most likely pickup is Georgia.

01:14:16.620 I've done a bunch of rallies with Herschel Walker.

01:14:18.180 I'll be with Herschel a few days doing another rally with him.

01:14:21.240 Those are the two most likely pickups.

01:14:23.320 I'd say the next tier are Arizona and New Hampshire.

01:14:28.420 The public polling has both those candidates down a couple of points, but they're really

01:14:33.040 close.

01:14:33.440 I think both of them, I think both Blake Masters in Arizona and General Bolduc in New Hampshire,

01:14:38.600 they both can win and I'm supporting both.

01:14:41.380 The next tier beyond that of pickup opportunities, I would say, is Colorado and even here.

01:14:47.080 Here's a dark horse.

01:14:48.680 Washington State.

01:14:50.020 I heard about this.

01:14:51.240 This is Smiley, right?

01:14:52.080 Smiley.

01:14:52.880 Yeah.

01:14:53.280 Look, Washington State is a tough state for Republicans.

01:14:55.480 It's a really blue state.

01:14:56.660 But I think Tiffany Smiley, the candidate, is a really impressive candidate.

01:15:02.360 And the polling has her within a couple of points.

01:15:05.180 If it's a really good day, we could end up winning there.

01:15:08.540 And then the rest of the races, like I just did a couple of days ago, three big rallies

01:15:12.780 with J.D. Vance in Ohio.

01:15:14.220 I think J.D.'s going to win.

01:15:16.060 Yeah.

01:15:16.840 Pennsylvania, Dr. Oz, public polling has him down a couple of points, but he was down 10

01:15:21.300 or 11 points a month ago.

01:15:22.760 So I think we're headed in the right direction.

01:15:24.580 I think Oz has a real chance.

01:15:25.340 And the debate's on the 25th.

01:15:26.040 Yeah.

01:15:26.220 We have the debate between those guys on the 25th.

01:15:28.140 Yeah.

01:15:29.220 So I'm feeling very good about the overall dynamic.

01:15:33.580 But you asked, what can we do about the politicization of DOJ and the FBI?

01:15:37.680 One of the first things we can do starting next year is have real oversight hearings,

01:15:42.060 oversight dragging DOJ, dragging the FBI, dragging the administration before the Senate,

01:15:47.180 before the House with subpoenas and holding them accountable for the abuse of power and

01:15:52.040 the politicization.

01:15:52.940 I think that's hugely important.

01:15:54.300 And then the real solution to fix it is we got to win in 24 and appoint leadership at these

01:16:00.640 agencies who will clean house and get rid of the partisans who burrowed into and corrupted

01:16:06.960 these institutions.

01:16:07.900 Megan, I hear all the time from prosecutors at DOJ, from agents at the FBI who are furious.

01:16:14.260 They're frustrated.

01:16:15.260 Look, they're patriots who love America and they're seeing the institutions they've devoted

01:16:19.340 their lives to fundamentally corrupted.

01:16:22.420 I don't want to see a Republican DOJ.

01:16:24.480 I don't want to see a Democrat DOJ.

01:16:25.820 I want a Department of Justice that follows the law.

01:16:28.380 And I think that that ought to bring us together.

01:16:32.720 Can I ask you about this?

01:16:34.720 At the executive level, if there's a change in Democrats or I should say leaders, Democrats

01:16:41.840 or Republican, how much of that CRT stuff can be undone?

01:16:45.560 He's not going to get to Brearley, right?

01:16:47.460 Yeah.

01:16:47.580 But he could like a lot of this stuff is being done at the federal level and he pushes a new

01:16:51.820 thing every week, it seems, mandating more DEI here or more scholarships there if a school

01:16:57.300 bends on the knee and pushes this stuff on its students.

01:16:59.880 So how much would that change if we had a Republican president?

01:17:04.100 So I think you can do an enormous amount fighting back against CRT with a Republican

01:17:07.980 president.

01:17:08.580 One of the first things you can do is within the federal workforce.

01:17:10.940 So every federal agency is right now forcing this on federal employees.

01:17:14.660 Uh, it's even worse tragically in the military where, where the, the military are, are service

01:17:21.060 academies.

01:17:21.760 They're, they're teaching this garbage on them.

01:17:24.240 Um, you, you look at, we had a senior general recently put out a directive in the air force

01:17:29.300 not to refer to men and women, not to refer to moms and dads.

01:17:33.560 I mean, it's just nutty.

01:17:36.100 You know, one of the things I think to understand, this is not even Republican and Democrat or conservative

01:17:41.300 and liberal that this is sane and insane.

01:17:44.080 I mean, these people can't say what a woman is that that's just weird.

01:17:50.100 You know, today, Joe Biden came out and said that, that, that, that he was affirmatively

01:17:56.360 for, um, the genital mutilation of children, like, like, like having a child who believes

01:18:03.340 he or she is transgender doing a surgery that permanently alters that child that, that sterilizes

01:18:09.940 that child.

01:18:11.300 And, and look, my view is no child has the maturity to make that decision.

01:18:16.360 If it, if an adult makes that decision, we all have rights to make decisions.

01:18:19.740 Even if, if, even if those decisions are, are, are not wise, but, but a child, an eight, nine,

01:18:25.200 10, 11, 12 year old does not have the maturity to make that decision.

01:18:29.520 And the Democrats have decided they are pro permanent life altering mutilation of kids.

01:18:37.440 That is not a mainstream position to put it mildly, but the Democrat party is captive to

01:18:43.680 the radicals in, in their base on almost every issue.

01:18:46.260 So this is, uh, we actually have that sound bite, uh, a trans woman who has been someone

01:18:52.140 who identifies as a trans woman, Dylan Mulvaney, who has been a quote woman for less than a

01:18:58.380 year was invited to the white house.

01:19:00.040 This is like the third time in three weeks we've covered this Dylan Mulvaney.

01:19:02.840 This person's getting tons of coverage.

01:19:04.500 They were invited to go to the Forbes most powerful women's conference.

01:19:07.680 Then they were featured on the, uh, Ulta beauty, uh, discussion on girlhood, which this person

01:19:15.060 did not have a girlhood.

01:19:16.380 This we're losing our minds.

01:19:18.160 Now they get invited to the white house to talk about trans rights.

01:19:22.680 I mean, I guess you're getting a little closer to the mark, but even the trans community might

01:19:25.960 say the person has been trans for two minutes.

01:19:28.400 And this is where president Biden made the remarks you're talking about.

01:19:31.140 It's not 11.

01:19:31.800 Here it is.

01:19:33.280 Do you think States should have a right to ban gender affirming healthcare?

01:19:38.160 I don't think any state or anybody should have the right to do that as a moral question

01:19:42.700 as legal question.

01:19:43.700 I just think it's wrong.

01:19:46.220 So it should be readily available and gender, you know, affirming care includes not only cross

01:19:51.500 sex hormones, but potentially surgeries for young, young children.

01:19:55.520 You know, I will say that phrase, gender affirming healthcare is one of the most Orwellian phrases

01:20:02.440 that I think I've ever heard.

01:20:04.740 What are they talking about?

01:20:05.960 They're talking about a little boy, an eight, nine, 10 year old cutting off his genitals.

01:20:10.500 What are they talking about?

01:20:11.420 They're talking about a little girl removing her uterus, removing her ability to have children

01:20:16.760 because the child, or I think sometimes with the case of kids, the woke parents have decided

01:20:22.800 that that child should be a different gender.

01:20:24.700 And you do have some people who identify as transgender.

01:20:27.880 And then sometime later they change their mind and want to go back.

01:20:32.400 And listen, if an adult makes a decision from the dawn of time, there have been men who wanted

01:20:39.140 to be women and women who wanted to be men.

01:20:40.820 They've historically been a pretty small percentage of our society, but that has been part of the

01:20:45.640 human condition.

01:20:47.620 Adults, I think, have a right to do what they want.

01:20:49.540 But this preaching it to kids is profoundly dangerous.

01:20:54.140 And I think it is child abuse.

01:20:55.800 If you cut off your child's genitals, I don't care what your political reason for that is.

01:21:01.600 You're making a decision for that kid that the kid is not mature enough to make.

01:21:05.880 And if you're making it, you are not putting the well-being of that child as your principal goal.

01:21:11.020 And if the child decides later that he or she would like to have children, the parents,

01:21:16.340 if they've gone down this road, have taken that choice off of the child's future forever.

01:21:21.480 It's deeply disturbing if you don't know what they do to children when they give,

01:21:25.460 you know, teenagers gender-affirming care.

01:21:28.520 Look it up because infertility, the inability to ever have an orgasm, these are like the small

01:21:33.120 consequences.

01:21:34.300 Once you actually perform surgery, you're talking about changes you can never have back and they're

01:21:38.520 catastrophic.

01:21:39.300 They're absolutely catastrophic.

01:21:40.080 And it's a multi-billion dollar business, too.

01:21:43.180 That is one of the things driving it is cash.

01:21:46.080 And the kids are a casualty of the desire for cash.

01:21:49.400 That's right.

01:21:49.760 We saw that at a previously respected university in the hospital associated with it, Vanderbilt,

01:21:54.220 thanks to Matt Walsh and the Daily Wire.

01:21:55.900 You know, horrific revelation about how excited they were about how much dough these procedures

01:22:00.740 on kids was going to come into the hospital.

01:22:03.340 All right, stand by because I got to squeeze in a break and we're going to get more on Justice

01:22:06.860 Corrupted.

01:22:07.740 I like the title.

01:22:09.180 Justice Corrupted.

01:22:10.080 With its author, Senator Ted Cruz.

01:22:12.160 Don't go away.

01:22:16.460 We talked about what would things change if we had a change in leadership at the top.

01:22:20.380 The current leader has said he would like to remain that leader for another four years.

01:22:24.280 It's getting a little bit more explicit as time goes on.

01:22:26.680 And he gave an interview to MSNBC's Jonathan Capehart.

01:22:30.100 And the exchange is making news not just for what he said, but how he said it and how the

01:22:36.120 exchange went.

01:22:36.860 Here it is, SOT 6.

01:22:38.140 I have not made that formal decision, but it's my intention.

01:22:41.660 My intention to run again.

01:22:43.940 And we have time to make that decision.

01:22:45.440 Dr. Biden is for it.

01:22:48.360 Dr. Biden thinks that my wife thinks that we're doing something very important.

01:23:03.960 Oh, boy.

01:23:06.880 What do you make of that?

01:23:08.100 Look, I mean, that was disturbing.

01:23:10.420 There is no doubt that Joe Biden is dealing with very significant mental deterioration.

01:23:16.480 When I was elected to the Senate a decade ago, Joe was vice president.

01:23:19.720 He swore me in.

01:23:20.480 And I know Joe of most of the senators.

01:23:22.320 We all know him.

01:23:23.660 That's not the Joe Biden we knew.

01:23:25.940 It is really striking.

01:23:28.220 I'll tell you, Megan, as I travel around the country, you know what the most frequent question

01:23:32.120 I get asked?

01:23:33.560 Who's running things?

01:23:35.200 People ask me that constantly.

01:23:36.760 Who's in charge?

01:23:37.560 Same.

01:23:38.100 And the terrifying answer that I give is I have no idea.

01:23:43.360 I can tell you since Biden became president, I have not spoken with him.

01:23:47.120 Not once.

01:23:47.900 That is weird.

01:23:48.800 Now, you might say, OK, Cruz, you're a right winger.

01:23:51.160 So fine.

01:23:51.520 He's not talking to you.

01:23:53.020 He's spoken to virtually none of the Republican senators.

01:23:56.420 We sit around at lunch and talk about how they're basically hiding in the basement.

01:24:01.400 They don't have him talk to us.

01:24:02.460 And that is weird.

01:24:03.380 I mean, I talk to Obama regularly.

01:24:05.700 I talk to Trump every week, sometimes every day when he was president.

01:24:09.720 It is clear that his mental deterioration has been significant.

01:24:13.640 And I got to tell you, I think the odds that Joe Biden runs for reelection

01:24:17.380 are 0.00 percent.

01:24:20.380 That is simply not going to happen.

01:24:22.040 He's not up to it.

01:24:23.120 And we're in the midst of the Democrat primary right now.

01:24:25.880 You can see that the Democrat contenders, I think the top four contenders are Kamala

01:24:31.300 Harris, Pete Buttigieg, Gavin Newsom, and Elizabeth Warren.

01:24:36.020 And I think the four of them are like circling around in a knife fight.

01:24:40.300 And every one of them is jabbing each other in the backs, positioning because nobody thinks

01:24:45.120 that Biden's going to be at the top of the ticket.

01:24:47.540 That's going to be really fun to watch.

01:24:50.480 There's an error or a wrong word or a wanderer, you know, unable to find his way off the stage

01:24:56.860 every day.

01:24:57.760 And the latest one was, I don't know.

01:25:00.020 I think this is a senior moment.

01:25:01.280 Otherwise, it's a blatant lie on whether on how he got student loan debt through.

01:25:07.820 We just had a court say that's not going anywhere.

01:25:09.600 Stand by.

01:25:10.300 No one's don't apply.

01:25:11.220 Like no one's getting any loans paid off right now.

01:25:13.240 We're going to have this legal challenge play play out.

01:25:15.240 The Eighth Circuit said that while we decide whether this is legal.

01:25:18.720 But here he was talking about his efforts to get that passed.

01:25:23.840 All right.

01:25:24.220 Sot 10.

01:25:25.760 You don't have one of those loans.

01:25:27.580 You just get 10,000 written off.

01:25:29.280 It's passed.

01:25:29.980 I got it passed by a vote or two.

01:25:32.560 What is he talking about?

01:25:34.380 He has no idea.

01:25:35.820 Nothing passed.

01:25:36.780 There hasn't been a vote.

01:25:38.140 I've been trying to press to get a vote in the Senate.

01:25:40.720 The Democrats are terrified of a vote on this because they recognize it's really bad politics.

01:25:46.340 And so a number of Democrats who are on the ballot in November are running away from this

01:25:50.900 because, you know, what Biden did as a policy matter is reverse Robin Hood.

01:25:57.500 You know, Robin Hood, of course, took from the rich and gave to the

01:25:59.940 poor, what what the Democrats are doing, what the Biden White House did is is take from working

01:26:06.780 men and women, take from plumbers and electricians and truck drivers and steel workers and blue

01:26:11.920 collar workers across the country who may not themselves have gone to college.

01:26:15.700 But he's spending their tax money to give a giveaway to affluent college graduates.

01:26:22.800 In many instances, people who are making or are on a path to make a lot more than the blue collar workers who they're taking money from.

01:26:31.220 And I got to tell you, working men and women are pissed.

01:26:33.760 I'll tell you, he also is pissed.

01:26:35.680 The millions of people who took loans and worked responsibly and paid them off.

01:26:40.460 Listen, when I went to college, my parents had just filed for bankruptcy.

01:26:44.440 They had a small business in Houston.

01:26:45.820 It was the 1980s and they went bankrupt.

01:26:47.500 We lost our home.

01:26:48.420 We lost everything we had.

01:26:49.980 When I went to college, I was 17.

01:26:51.800 I was financially on my own.

01:26:53.100 I worked two jobs and had to figure out how to make college work.

01:26:56.560 And so I took a bunch of student loans.

01:26:58.340 I came out of college and law school with about 100 grand in student loans, and it took me nearly 20 years to pay them off.

01:27:05.280 I paid them all off and I worked year after year paying every month.

01:27:08.580 There are millions of people like that who are responsible.

01:27:12.200 And Biden, through just an executive order, a decree, and frankly, one that is lawless, one that I believe the courts will strike down as contrary to federal law, he's trying to buy votes.

01:27:24.420 And that's what this is about.

01:27:25.920 But it's an ironic Freudian slip there because not only was there not a vote, the reason there wasn't a vote is Chuck Schumer blocked it because he didn't want to put Democrats on record as supporting this reverse Robin Hood, screwing blue collar workers, because I think a lot of Democrats realize that that politics is not great.

01:27:46.320 But it's so the reason there's a legal challenge in the Eighth Circuit right now is a whole group of states are arguing you can't do this as president.

01:27:55.300 It went beyond your executive powers.

01:27:57.300 If you want to do this, you need Congress to pass a bill that you can then sign into law.

01:28:01.980 And he's he knows that challenge is happening.

01:28:04.360 His administration is fighting against it.

01:28:06.160 And he goes out there to say it's passed.

01:28:08.660 I got it passed by a vote or two.

01:28:10.260 It's completely made up.

01:28:12.500 I mean, we are really in la la land and I'm getting really concerned.

01:28:16.700 Like if they hadn't bounced around the, you know, let's get Trump out of there with the 25th Amendment.

01:28:21.280 I think you'd be hearing more about that.

01:28:22.820 Yeah, listen, the one thing I would disagree that you said is you said he knows that challenge is out there.

01:28:27.840 I'm not convinced he knows that.

01:28:29.300 I'm not convinced he has any awareness of it at all.

01:28:31.500 I think they really do hide him.

01:28:34.620 And as you know, I do a podcast every week, actually three times a week called Verdict with Ted Cruz.

01:28:39.280 You and I are now doing the same business.

01:28:42.720 And we've been it was the number one ranked podcast in the world.

01:28:46.180 And we've done some deep dives into this issue, both on the policy issue, but also on the legal issue.

01:28:51.640 So the Biden administration's justification for this, they issued an opinion from the Office of Legal Counsel,

01:28:58.540 which is an office in the Department of Justice that gives binding opinions for within the executive branch.

01:29:04.780 And the claimed basis for the authority to forgive upwards of a trillion dollars in student loans

01:29:11.720 was a bill that Congress passed right after 9-11 called the Heroes Act,

01:29:16.580 which gave the Secretary of Education limited authority to forgive student debts for soldiers and sailors

01:29:23.480 and airmen and marines and their families.

01:29:25.280 So for people who stepped up and said, I'm going to fight against terrorists trying to kill Americans,

01:29:30.380 Congress said, OK, we're going to give some relief to student loans in response to that.

01:29:34.860 What the Biden DOJ said is, well, that statute authorizes Biden to give it away to everyone.

01:29:40.620 And I got to say, as someone who has practiced law for a lot of years, who's argued in front of the Supreme Court,

01:29:46.400 that statutory case, I literally I read the DOJ opinion.

01:29:49.720 I laughed out loud reading it.

01:29:51.120 It is so shoddy.

01:29:52.780 You're a lawyer.

01:29:53.560 It's not remotely persuasive.

01:29:55.680 Now, I will throw a caveat.

01:29:57.780 There is a real chance the courts will not strike this down.

01:30:01.260 It has nothing to do with the merits.

01:30:02.880 It has to do with standing.

01:30:04.720 If the Supreme Court gets to the merits, I think 6-3, the court will strike this down.

01:30:09.560 But the problem is, in order for the court to consider the merits, you have to find a plaintiff

01:30:15.340 who has standing, which means that plaintiff was directly injured by the decision.

01:30:21.500 And I talked about at length on the Verdict podcast what the challenges are on standing.

01:30:26.500 And it's not clear if the plaintiffs will succeed in getting a court to answer the question.

01:30:31.420 I hope that they do.

01:30:32.120 Well, that's why the federal district court struck down this challenge, as I understand it.

01:30:35.740 But then it was appealed to the Eighth Circuit.

01:30:37.800 And they said, OK, we realize that the district court threw this case out, thus frustrating

01:30:44.300 the five states who are saying this was wrong.

01:30:46.520 But we're going to stay that order while we take a look at it.

01:30:49.580 So it's a temporary hold.

01:30:51.420 We'll see who prevails because of the standing.

01:30:53.520 I have two quick things I want to ask you about before I let you go.

01:30:55.880 And we have to get both of them in.

01:30:57.220 One is, what's going on with the Supreme Court?

01:30:59.620 Leaker?

01:31:00.280 But the second is, so I'll start in reverse order.

01:31:02.420 We've got to get to Leaker, though.

01:31:03.380 So quick answer on this one.

01:31:05.060 Why is Raphael Warnock campaigning on you, on his relationship with you?

01:31:09.700 Here's just 20 seconds of his ad mentioning you.

01:31:13.380 Things work surprisingly well together.

01:31:15.960 Pizza with pineapple.

01:31:17.840 French fry and frost.

01:31:20.140 Raphael Warnock and Ted Cruz?

01:31:22.340 That's right.

01:31:23.280 Raphael Warnock partnered with Republican Ted Cruz to extend I-14, connecting military

01:31:28.880 communities in Texas and Georgia, which will help create jobs from Columbus to Macon to

01:31:34.040 Augusta.

01:31:34.620 I'm Raphael Warnock, and I'll work with anyone if it means helping Georgia.

01:31:39.780 Yeah, look, you're the pineapple.

01:31:42.100 Your little pizza-pineapple combo.

01:31:44.400 You know, look, I'm a Cuban-Irish-Italian man.

01:31:46.600 I can be pineapple on pizza.

01:31:48.040 That works.

01:31:49.000 Maybe a jalapeno, throw that on there, too.

01:31:50.960 Jill Biden would call you the little taco.

01:31:53.120 He would, indeed.

01:31:54.100 By the way, there are six Latinas who are Republican nominees for the House who I'm supporting who

01:31:58.940 dubbed themselves the spicy tacos, and I think they've all got a good shot at winning.

01:32:04.200 Listen, Warnock, I understand he's trying to find a way to get elected in Georgia.

01:32:07.880 It's true.

01:32:08.240 He and I worked together on this bill.

01:32:09.740 The bill was the Cruz-Warnock bill, and we got it passed unanimously.

01:32:14.200 Actually, it was in the middle of the infrastructure bill.

01:32:15.780 I stood up and spoke for it.

01:32:16.860 He stood up and spoke for it.

01:32:18.640 And then Tom Carper, the senator from Delaware, stood up and said, you know, if Cruz and Warnock are

01:32:23.660 both for it, we ought to all pass it unanimously.

01:32:26.320 And the Senate literally broke into applause, and we passed it.

01:32:29.200 And it was good for jobs in Texas and all the way to Georgia.

01:32:32.880 At the end of the day, that's not going to get Warnock reelected.

01:32:36.100 The reality is Warnock's voting record is wildly out of step with the people of Georgia.

01:32:40.720 And I think in November, Georgia is going to elect a Republican.

01:32:44.020 They're going to elect Herschel Walker.

01:32:45.080 I understand why Warnock's trying to find a basis to campaign on, but the rest of his record,

01:32:49.920 I think, is really extreme for the people of Georgia.

01:32:52.700 That's fun.

01:32:53.040 It's fun to see.

01:32:53.920 Most Democrats are like, Ted Cruz.

01:32:56.040 So I tip my hat to him for at least showing that he's willing to work across the aisle.

01:33:00.040 So, you know, Megan, it's actually funny.

01:33:02.220 Three different Democrats running for president in 2020, Cory Booker, Amy Klobuchar, and Kirsten

01:33:10.400 Gillibrand, all on the campaign trail, use the same joke.

01:33:13.920 They'd say, heck, I work with anyone.

01:33:16.240 I even work with Ted Cruz because I've worked with all three of them.

01:33:19.240 And it's a good laugh line.

01:33:20.400 In Democratic presidential primary, it's a good laugh line.

01:33:23.620 But neither of them went all the way either.

01:33:26.720 They're just making you an even bigger star.

01:33:29.100 OK, Supreme Court leaker.

01:33:30.920 We talked about it at length when it happened.

01:33:32.960 What's going on?

01:33:33.960 I don't know that they haven't reported anything.

01:33:36.400 They haven't announced anything.

01:33:38.120 I think they need to bring in federal law enforcement.

01:33:41.060 They need forensics.

01:33:41.980 We need to find this leaker and this leaker needs to be prosecuted.

01:33:44.940 And I'm really disappointed the court has not gotten to the bottom of it yet.

01:33:47.940 They need to.

01:33:49.080 I know.

01:33:49.560 Is there any chance you believe at any level that they know and they just haven't told

01:33:53.100 us?

01:33:53.500 I hope not.

01:33:54.620 I will say this goes right to the core of the integrity of the court.

01:33:59.120 It's one of the things I talk about in the book, Justice Corrupted, how I was like in

01:34:03.100 two centuries of our nation's history, this has never happened.

01:34:06.240 And it's Clarence Thomas analogized it to he said it was like an infidelity in a marriage.

01:34:11.920 There's just no coming back from from the destruction of trust.

01:34:15.360 And I think it is very important that whoever did this be prosecuted, be disbarred and spend

01:34:21.540 real time behind bars.

01:34:23.440 Yes.

01:34:24.000 A Supreme Court justice had somebody show up near his house ready to assassinate him.

01:34:30.520 Yes.

01:34:30.800 There have to be consequences.

01:34:31.880 They cannot let it slide.

01:34:34.540 They cannot keep it private and they cannot let it go unsolved because the Supreme Court

01:34:38.520 marshal wasn't able to get to the bottom of it.

01:34:41.380 Stole the last word.

01:34:42.440 Senator Cruz, always a pleasure.

01:34:44.260 Justice Corrupted.

01:34:45.580 I love it.

01:34:46.200 Good luck with it.

01:34:46.820 Thanks.

01:34:47.440 Tomorrow we are on tape with Robert F. Kennedy Jr.

01:34:50.120 He's back and he's great.

01:34:52.060 But more importantly, there is a new podcast dropping tomorrow.

01:34:55.260 You can go ahead and subscribe today.

01:34:57.660 It's called Dedicated with Doug Brunt.

01:35:01.080 That's my better half.

01:35:02.420 Doug Brunt, my Dugger, has got an amazing new pod dropping.

01:35:05.060 He interviews all these great, well-known, beloved authors about their writing process, about

01:35:10.060 their books, behind the scenes stuff.

01:35:12.300 Lee Child is on there with some crazy stuff about Jack Reacher.

01:35:14.920 Go subscribe now and we'll see you tomorrow.

01:35:19.860 Thanks for listening to The Megyn Kelly Show.

01:35:22.080 No BS, no agenda, and no fear.

The Megyn Kelly Show - October 24, 2022

Biden's Mental Fitness, Targeting Political Enemies, and ＂Trans Dopers,＂ with Ted Cruz and Michael Shermer ｜ Ep. 418

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