The Megyn Kelly Show - Biden’s Border Wall, Ex-MLB Pitcher Trevor Bauer’s Lawsuit Drama, and SBF Trial Begins, with Former VP Mike Pence, Arthur Aidala, and Mark Eiglarsh

00:00:00.480 Welcome to The Megyn Kelly Show, live on Sirius XM Channel 111 every weekday at New East.

00:00:11.540 Hey everyone, I'm Megyn Kelly. Welcome to The Megyn Kelly Show.

00:00:14.900 In a stunning turn of events, President Biden now supports building a wall along the U.S.

00:00:22.560 southern border. When he was running for president, he declared,

00:00:26.900 there will not be another foot of wall constructed in my administration.

00:00:32.140 Now, his administration is willing to toss aside the Clean Air Act, the Endangered Species Act,

00:00:38.120 and the Safe Drinking Water Act because there is a, quote, acute and immediate need for a wall.

00:00:44.880 Oh, really? What finally clued you in? We have the perfect guest here today to react to this major

00:00:50.500 development, and that is former vice president and current 2024 GOP presidential candidate,

00:00:55.500 Mike Pence. Mr. Vice President, thank you so much for being here with us today.

00:01:00.340 What do you make of this 180 by the president who has been, since he took office, steadily dismantling

00:01:07.200 even the border wall parts that you and President Trump had allocated for the remaining part of the

00:01:13.100 border that you did not get to cover? He's been selling them off, and now he's seen the light.

00:01:17.540 Well, Megan, thanks for having me on. What a difference a crisis makes, right? I mean,

00:01:24.980 from the first day of the Biden administration, he shut down construction of the border wall. We had

00:01:30.980 built hundreds of miles of border wall. He committed himself to undo the Remain in Mexico policy that I

00:01:37.440 negotiated with the Mexican government on behalf of the administration. And then he committed to rescind

00:01:44.140 Title 42. The combination of those things, Megan, as you know, had reduced illegal immigration and

00:01:49.760 asylum abuse by 90 percent. Joe Biden threw open the southern border of the United States. I've been

00:01:55.560 down there four times, which I think is four times more than the current vice president,

00:02:00.120 and standing along the border, seeing literally steel girders stacked like a parked railroad car

00:02:07.120 rusting in the sun because Joe Biden refused to allow anyone to build any further border wall.

00:02:14.120 Just again, this decision today, it feels like too little too late, but for heaven's sakes,

00:02:20.720 let's just get on with it, right? I mean, a nation without borders is not a nation. I saw last night

00:02:27.020 where Secretary Mayorkas is requesting all the necessary waivers you just described to get going on

00:02:34.000 building the wall, but it's just part of the equation. We absolutely have to see Remain in Mexico back

00:02:40.740 into effect. We absolutely have to deputize courts and prosecutors around the country to process the

00:02:47.620 over six million asylum applicants that are now strewn all over the United States. But people need to know

00:02:55.500 that this today is, to me, this is a confirmation that even the Biden administration has come to realize

00:03:01.840 that this is a manmade crisis at our border. And that man's name is Joe Biden. And we've got to get

00:03:08.300 back to what was working during our administration. It's amazing because it's only going to be even

00:03:13.240 given this crisis, we're literally at unprecedented levels of migrants crossing that border, even at

00:03:18.360 this stage with him saying he's going to now build the wall. He's talking about, I think, 26 miles of it.

00:03:23.960 I mean, we have a lot more to go. So even this feels like a fig leaf under this president meant to

00:03:28.960 what? Do you think this is a politics thing? He recognizes even the Democrats are turning on him?

00:03:34.100 Well, well, they are. I mean, you've got you got Mayor Eric Adams in New York, who I was actually

00:03:40.600 on on Fox one day. They asked me about Mayor Adams, who had come to be critical of the Biden

00:03:47.080 administration. He must have gotten a memo from Washington because the next day, Mayor Adams,

00:03:53.140 he didn't reverse his criticism, but if somehow blamed he blamed what was happening in New York with

00:03:58.600 this avalanche of illegal immigrants and asylum applicants on the Trump-Pence administration.

00:04:06.400 But now you've got the governor of New York, you've got the governor of Illinois, who actually

00:04:12.280 is now complaining about this. So it feels like a fig leaf. It feels like too little, too late.

00:04:19.060 But I think the American people deserve to know that what they announced late yesterday

00:04:26.020 is tantamount to an admission that Joe Biden was wrong from day one when they shut down construction

00:04:34.980 of that wall. It's one of the reasons why we need a new president. We need a wider majority in the

00:04:41.340 Congress. We need a Republican Senate that'll secure the southern border of the United States.

00:04:45.780 And as I hear about it everywhere I go, not just people, Megan, as you know, but the but the

00:04:52.800 scourge of fentanyl, most of which flows into our country through the southern border of the United

00:04:58.000 States, is claiming lives in every community in this country. And whatever whatever Joe Biden

00:05:05.200 does today, whatever, you know, 20, 30 miles of wall he calls for to be built,

00:05:10.900 we need an administration that's absolutely committed to put into effect the policies that

00:05:16.320 we had put into effect that secure the southern border. And if I'm president of the United States,

00:05:20.960 I promise you we will. Yeah. Just yesterday, there was a report after Congress held a hearing

00:05:26.120 on how the Chinese are buying up a bunch of American farmland. More and more states like Florida and others

00:05:31.340 are trying to stop this, but they're buying up a bunch of American farmland and then creating

00:05:35.580 marijuana plant farms where they lace the marijuana with fentanyl they've gotten from Mexican drug

00:05:41.660 cartels. This is what we're dealing with. It's not like the 60s where, you know, people used to

00:05:46.240 have a joint and it wasn't the end of the world. Your kid could have a joint now laced with fentanyl

00:05:50.380 and die because we're allowing all of this to happen. It's just one of the many things that we

00:05:54.880 need to worry about. Let me switch topics while I'm on the subject of Congress, where you used to work

00:05:59.660 things. I think it's fair to say are in a bit of disarray right now. There's no speaker McCarthy's

00:06:05.660 fired. What do you make of the insurgency that Matt Gaetz led to boot Kevin McCarthy?

00:06:12.600 Well, I must tell you, I was I was deeply disappointed to see Congressman Gaetz and seven

00:06:19.160 other members of Congress partner with every single Democrat in the House of Representatives

00:06:24.660 to fire the Republican Speaker of the House. I look, as you know, Megan, you know me a long time.

00:06:31.540 I was a backbench conservative. I led the House conservative caucus when I was in the Congress.

00:06:38.540 We had our share of fights with our leadership. We had our share of fights with a Republican

00:06:44.600 administration. But it would never have occurred to me or any Republican that I know to partner

00:06:51.320 with the Democrat minority to throw out the Republican leadership in the Congress. It is

00:06:58.120 it seems to me these these eight Republicans represent the chaos caucus. And I am I am wishing

00:07:07.920 well to all of my former colleagues and so many of my friends in the House as they go through the

00:07:13.140 process of choosing a new speaker. But I honestly believe that they also have to they also have to

00:07:19.240 amend the conference rules and and and and require a higher threshold so that you can't see a small

00:07:28.000 number of members move to essentially hold the Speaker of the House hostage as he's moving forward.

00:07:34.800 The last thing I would say to you, too, is, you know, I'm a fiscal conservative. I'm somebody I'm one of

00:07:39.640 the few candidates for president that's been talking about the thirty three trillion dollar national debt

00:07:44.700 that we have and the fact that we've got to be willing to have a conversation with the American

00:07:48.880 people about reforming Social Security and Medicare to deal with it. But that's why I couldn't

00:07:55.380 understand why why the same congressmen that that partnered with the Democrats to throw out the

00:08:02.380 Speaker of the House were among the 21 that voted against a short term bill that actually had border

00:08:09.840 funding in it, had budget cuts in it and actually created a committee to begin to look at entitlement

00:08:16.320 reform. I mean, I I when I was a leader of House conservatives, I always took a strong stand, Megan.

00:08:21.820 But I always used to remind people sometimes you got to take yes for an answer. And the chaos caucus

00:08:28.420 in the House of Representatives, those eight members wouldn't take yes for an answer on Friday.

00:08:35.020 And so come Tuesday of this week, they partnered with the Democrats to throw out the Republican

00:08:39.820 Speaker of the House. But I got a lot of confidence in our team. Come together, choose good leadership.

00:08:45.820 and move our country forward. So the Democrats were having a really rough couple of weeks in the

00:08:50.640 press. And then I guess Matt Gaetz decided he'd had enough of that. And now the Republicans are back

00:08:55.860 in the press for all the wrong reasons on the subject. Before I leave it, President Trump posted on the day

00:09:03.600 that on the day that eight Republicans partnered with every Democrat in the Congress to fire the

00:09:10.960 Republican Speaker of the House. A new poll came out that found that Republicans have the largest

00:09:16.340 advantage on dealing with a struggling economy of any time in modern history. I mean, there's a

00:09:23.320 gigantic gap. The American people know Bidenomics has failed. And I have to tell you, as I said that

00:09:29.380 day when I found out about it, that chaos on Capitol Hill is never a friend to a majority. But

00:09:36.940 more importantly, the chaos on Capitol Hill is doing nothing to secure our border,

00:09:42.360 nothing to get this economy moving again. And I am hopeful that my old colleagues and my friends

00:09:49.140 will come together and find a speaker that'll be able to bring the conference together, focus back

00:09:53.940 on the American people's challenges. I always think you could probably relate to this, given all the

00:09:58.540 time you spent in Iowa. My imaginary viewer has always been a woman named Madge in Iowa. And she

00:10:04.920 works all day. She takes care of her kids. She turns in, you know, at night and she maybe watches

00:10:09.860 the news or listens to the show and she needs it explained to her. You know, she's smart, but she

00:10:14.760 needs it explained to her because she's paying attention to her life. She doesn't care about a

00:10:18.380 vanity project by some congressman from Florida who would like to be governor. You know, she cares

00:10:23.400 about her life. She does care about the economy. She can see how badly it's going. I don't know why

00:10:27.920 you would try to change Madge's perception of the chaos on the left into her paying attention to the

00:10:33.260 chaos he's creating on the right. Anyway, that's my own take on it. Sorry for the editorial.

00:10:39.100 Trump shares a post pitching himself for speaker, which Hannity reported the other night he believed

00:10:46.000 could happen, that Trump would be, quote, willing to serve. Is that a good idea?

00:10:51.900 I think there's enough talent in the Congress of the United States to find a principled conservative

00:10:56.840 who can lead this conference. And but I can't say I'm terribly surprised to see my former running

00:11:04.480 mate injecting himself into this conversation. You know, I sure would have liked to seen him

00:11:09.800 step up and speak in support of the former Speaker of the House, Kevin McCarthy, when Kevin was coming

00:11:16.380 under fire by the by the chaos caucus. But, you know, at the end of the day, after all of it came apart,

00:11:23.260 he actually was critical of Kevin, who I think by most accounts, Megan, has been exceptionally

00:11:29.440 generous toward the former president in his public posture. So, no, I don't think that'd be a good

00:11:35.780 idea at all. I think I think the elected representatives of the American people in the

00:11:41.700 Republican majority, with maybe eight exceptions, have many of good candidates who would be better

00:11:47.180 Speaker of the House than the former president. Just for the record, you're not throwing your hat in

00:11:51.700 the ring because you can do it from outside Congress. That's what Trump would be doing.

00:11:55.200 You can do it from outside Congress. I will tell you, I think it was on about the 10th vote

00:12:01.480 a year ago that I had got a couple of texts from people asking if I was coming back. But no,

00:12:07.660 I'm running for president of the United States of America. And that's where my family and I feel called.

00:12:12.540 Can I just ask you about that? I feel like so much of Congress has become a vanity project.

00:12:16.620 You know, so many people who are looking, I think, to want to be famous instead of to serve.

00:12:21.980 It doesn't feel to me like it's always been this way. Is this a is this a product of social media,

00:12:26.340 of I don't know, times move on and people have different side gigs that they want to nurture?

00:12:31.160 What is happening, in your view, as somebody who's served the country in a number of different offices?

00:12:36.140 Well, I think there's been a breakdown in in in the Congress over over my season of service.

00:12:42.740 You know, I arrived in Washington, D.C. in the year 2000 and and was sworn in in 2001.

00:12:50.840 9-11 happened a half a year later. And I will tell you, after that terrorist attack on American

00:12:57.820 soil, there were no Republicans in Washington, D.C. There were no Democrats. There were just

00:13:02.180 Americans. We found a way to work together. But clearly, with fault on both sides, Megan,

00:13:08.400 there's been an erosion of civility on Capitol Hill. And I got to tell you, you know, when I'm out

00:13:15.100 there in Iowa talking to Madge and talking to lots of people and we're back in Iowa tonight,

00:13:20.200 I hear people longing for a return to a threshold of civility that would make it possible for us to

00:13:26.940 really take on some of these major, major challenges facing the American people, whether it be

00:13:31.840 the crisis at the border, whether it be a struggling economy, whether it be America's challenges in the

00:13:38.240 world or crime in our streets. I think that there's been a breakdown in civility. And frankly,

00:13:45.280 that that is the precursor to an environment where it seems like the more caustic people are

00:13:53.100 on either side of the spectrum, the more attention that they get. But I would tell you that one of the

00:13:59.920 things that people have encouraged me about since we announced our campaign back in June

00:14:04.900 for the Republican nomination is they appreciate the fact that, you know, I'm a conservative,

00:14:10.400 but I'm not in a bad mood about it. We people that know me for my years in Congress as a governor,

00:14:15.800 as vice president, know that I hold very strong views. I often am criticized for those conservative

00:14:23.380 views, but that always try and show respect for people, whether they agree or disagree.

00:14:28.280 And that's the environment that we have to have if America is going to meet this moment in the 21st

00:14:33.260 century. You know, you've you've been so demonized by some on the right because they see you as having

00:14:39.420 been, quote, disloyal to Trump. And it's, in my view, very unfair to you. You were a very loyal vice

00:14:45.400 president. You diverged on the January 6th thing and you were in the right. He was in the wrong. But

00:14:52.820 people are so blindly loyal to Trump. I mean, I get it. He's definitely a better option than what

00:14:57.740 we're seeing over on the left where they're trans and kids and they're creating, you know,

00:15:01.400 weaponization of the DOJ and all this stuff that people are concerned about. But why do you think

00:15:05.600 is it just because of Trump's messaging? Why? Why has there been this change in sentiment toward you

00:15:12.060 among the MAGA base? Well, look, thanks for saying I was always loyal to President Donald Trump.

00:15:19.260 He was my president and he was my friend. We had a great working relationship that I recounted in the

00:15:25.260 in my autobiography that came out last fall. It's been actually described as the most fulsome defense

00:15:30.420 of the Trump-Pence record that's been in print. We accomplished so much, not just at the border, but in the

00:15:35.900 economy and our military. Of course, appointing three conservatives to our courts that gave America a new

00:15:41.980 beginning for the right to life. These were all great accomplishments. But in the waning days of

00:15:47.500 the administration, you know, I knew that I had a higher loyalty and that was to God and my oath to

00:15:56.260 the Constitution of the United States. And I will tell you that while I continue to have my detractors

00:16:03.460 among some of the president's most ardent supporters, over the last several years, Megan, I've been deeply

00:16:09.460 moved as I was. I was in Centerville, Ohio this last weekend. I know you're sorry you missed it. It was

00:16:15.280 the Pancake Festival. Drew about 10,000 people to the courthouse square in Centerville. It was a great

00:16:22.120 event. I just about couldn't get through the crowd because people wanting selfies and thanking me for my

00:16:27.980 service. And I had the occasional sideways look, but the overwhelming majority of people were expressing

00:16:34.220 their encouragement, their support. And many more times than once on every day, I have somebody stop

00:16:41.380 me and say, thank you for keeping your oath to the Constitution of the United States. So I'm always

00:16:47.380 humbled by that. I always answer it the same way. I say it was God's grace that day. But I think as time

00:16:54.380 goes on, more and more people understand that we stood strongly with the former president all through

00:17:01.140 our administration. But at the end of the day, with God's grace, I kept my oath to the Constitution and the

00:17:07.480 promise I'd made to the American people. And I'll never see it any other way. You absolutely did.

00:17:13.980 There's just no two ways about it. Everybody understands Trump has difficulty with losing. We get it. No one's

00:17:19.980 saying the election was fair or perfect. It was definitely I accept the term rigged. I don't

00:17:24.840 accept the term, you know, stolen in terms of the vote flipping. But you you had no part in any of

00:17:30.060 that. You had no part in any of that. It's unfair to hold that against you. People like you or don't

00:17:33.500 like you as a candidate. That's their business, but not over this. Let's talk a little bit about

00:17:37.880 campaign politics, because the polling, as you know, is in Trump's favor right now, not just against

00:17:42.240 you, but against the entire GOP field. His polling average right now, 49 percent in Iowa.

00:17:47.160 Iowa. You're at three in New Hampshire. Trump's at forty five. You are at one point four percent.

00:17:54.540 What what's the plan to turn that around? I see your role in the race. I really do.

00:17:58.780 I see why you're there and that it's important for the Republican Party. But to be honest,

00:18:03.880 I don't see the path to victory. So help walk me through it. Well, first off, I'm very grateful

00:18:11.020 for the support. You look at some of these national polls and anywhere anywhere from four percent

00:18:16.620 to eight percent of Republican primary voters say that I'm their first choice.

00:18:20.660 And that's very humbling for a small town guy from southern Indiana to have that many Americans

00:18:25.140 see me as a first choice for president of the United States. So I never want to again say that.

00:18:31.440 But, you know, what I'm told is that you look at the history of the Iowa caucus and we've been

00:18:36.900 spending a lot of time in Iowa. You look at New Hampshire, the first in the nation primary state,

00:18:41.640 and they are well known for deciding late. And in fact, there have been in in the last 20 years

00:18:50.140 have been a few Republican candidates that that won in Iowa, for instance, that were essentially where

00:18:56.040 I am in the polls right now. And so, you know, our approaches, we're just going to keep our head

00:19:01.520 down, keep working hard. And, you know, Megan, you and I've known each other a long time. But

00:19:05.360 I like to say I'm I'm I'm well known, but I'm not known well. And a place like Iowa and New Hampshire

00:19:13.680 are tailor made for people to actually get to know me and get to know my wife, Karen, and see that,

00:19:20.320 you know, you know, I'm always struck by people being surprised that I have a sense of humor. But

00:19:26.940 but I get it. I mean, when I when I was vice president of you is so conversational,

00:19:31.640 the debate stage version of you is much more serious. Well, yeah, well, that's yeah, I tend

00:19:36.920 to, you know, I tend to armor up when we're heading into debates that you've had, you've had your

00:19:42.260 experience on that stage, too. But town hall meetings and living room meetings that we've

00:19:47.940 been having, I mean, you know, I talked to people about my my Christian faith, my what I think you

00:19:54.080 implied is understanding my calling to this, my deep commitment to the conservative agenda that's

00:19:59.920 defined the Republican movement over the last 50 years. I mean, that's my great concern right now

00:20:05.860 is is less about the polls, but it's more about the choice that I think Republicans are facing. And I

00:20:12.980 spoke about it in New Hampshire a few weeks back, Megan, at St. Anselm College, where I said,

00:20:18.980 essentially, we're at a Republican time for choosing where where you have candidates like myself who are

00:20:24.280 offering that that that conservative mainstream agenda, American strong defense, American leadership

00:20:31.720 in the world, less government, less taxes, right to life, traditional values. And then you have not

00:20:37.840 only the former president, but some of his imitators in the race that are talking about walking away from

00:20:43.120 America's role as leader of the free world with war raging in Eastern Europe that are that are actually

00:20:48.340 talking about raising taxes. The president's talking about a 10 percent tariff on all imports into the

00:20:55.020 country. And then there's others that are shying away from the right to life right at at the beginning

00:21:00.180 of a new era for life in the country. So I'm going to continue to make that case in the days ahead that

00:21:07.680 that for the sake not just of our party, but for the sake of our country, staying true to that broad

00:21:13.540 mainstream conservative agenda that's defined our movement from Reagan through the Trump Pence years,

00:21:19.340 that was the agenda we governed on, Megan, is still the pathway toward a stronger, more prosperous

00:21:25.300 America. Ukraine has been a has been a problem on many levels, and the support for it is falling

00:21:34.400 within the Republican Party and among independents. It's still very high amongst Democrats. This has led to

00:21:40.800 some people breaking away from you, breaking away from Nikki Haley, who have more of what I'd say

00:21:46.040 as a traditionalist Republican approach, which is the Reagan approach. We can do it all. You know,

00:21:50.680 I've heard you say that we don't have to choose between border security and Ukraine. We can keep

00:21:55.200 Putin in check and take care of ourselves. I think the problem so many Republicans have right now is

00:22:00.300 we're not doing it. We're not. And we're bankrupt. So how could we? And so kind of too bad. Sorry,

00:22:06.820 Ukraine. But you've been a hot mess for a long time. So we're out. We're going to focus on

00:22:11.360 ourselves. So those people looking at you thinking that, what say you? Well, I tell them and I

00:22:17.100 understand after that disastrous withdrawal from Afghanistan, Megan, the lack of confidence in Joe

00:22:24.980 Biden as a commander in chief. And and frankly, I think Joe Biden's done a terrible job explaining what

00:22:30.300 our national interest is in Ukraine. Look, I've been to Ukraine. I've stood at the site of a mass

00:22:38.940 grave. I've heard about the atrocities. But look, you make decisions about about military resources on

00:22:47.860 the basis of national interest. And I think our national interest in supporting the Ukrainian

00:22:52.820 military is simply this. I have no doubt that if Vladimir Putin overruns Ukraine, it will not be long

00:22:59.600 before that Russian army crosses a border of a NATO country where our men and women in uniform would

00:23:06.480 have to go and fight under. Why? Why do you believe that? He's been upset about Ukraine and the West,

00:23:12.580 including us messing in Ukraine for a long time. But what is our evidence that he's then, you know,

00:23:17.340 after this disaster that Ukraine has been for him, if we pulled out and he got some, you know,

00:23:22.560 I realize this is controversial, but if he if he got, you know, the borders as they now are after his

00:23:27.080 successes there, that he's then going to say, I want Poland. I'm going to I'm going to start it up

00:23:31.640 again. I mean, his army's weakened. What is what is your evidence that he would take it beyond Ukraine?

00:23:36.540 Well, his army is weakened, which is another argument for what we're doing. Remember,

00:23:40.340 with a five percent investment of our national defense resources, Russia's gone from the second

00:23:47.300 most powerful military in the world to the second most powerful military in Ukraine. That's

00:23:51.260 it's what we used to call progress back in the day. But no, people point at Poland and shrug their

00:23:57.960 shoulders. Look, Poland's got a strong military. I'd keep an eye on Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania. And

00:24:04.480 I'd also look really hard, Megan. Look, you're you're an intellectual. You you're a scholar. People

00:24:09.700 people know you do your homework. Go look at what Vladimir Putin has said about the Baltic states.

00:24:15.580 Look at the ambitions that he has never hidden for the last 20 years. You know, in our first year in

00:24:22.500 office, they they had 100000 troops on the border of of the Baltic states. And and I was I was detailed

00:24:34.680 to go and visit the country of Georgia. I visited Estonia. I gave speeches about our strong commitment

00:24:41.900 to our allies in the region because that Russian military, they said they were just doing a military

00:24:46.740 exercise was called ZAPAD. But we didn't want them to get any ideas. And so I went I flew the flag.

00:24:54.160 Others in the administration did the same. Russia stayed on its side of the border. Look, I just think

00:24:59.580 if if the United States falters in in our leadership of the free world in this moment, I really do believe

00:25:07.300 it will simply embolden Russia's ambitions in Eastern Europe. And and just as importantly,

00:25:13.020 and I said this in that that very sporty debate that happened a week ago, Megan. Look, look, if we let

00:25:21.940 Russia take Ukraine, I believe that's a green light to Xi and Communist China to take Taiwan. I think Xi's

00:25:33.020 announced his unlimited partnership with Putin and and they're supporting that effort. But I guarantee

00:25:40.480 you and I've met both of these men. I've talked to them standing toe to toe and looked them in the eye

00:25:47.900 and size them up. I will tell you, there's no doubt in my mind that President Xi is watching what is

00:25:52.780 happening, watching it if America and the West falter or flag in our support for the Ukrainian military.

00:26:00.080 And I believe if Putin prevails in Ukraine, it will not be long before we see that Chinese military

00:26:06.980 movement against Taiwan. I think we can we can we can deter that by standing firm in Eastern Europe

00:26:14.140 today. I believe it with all my heart. I do. I do wonder. I wonder if we had a Republican president

00:26:17.860 in there right now who actually was funding the border, you know, to protect it. So we had one

00:26:22.680 and spending money on Ukraine, whether the attitudes would shift. I think one of the frustrations on the

00:26:27.920 right and amongst independents rising, right, is that it's a sieve down. So that Megan, I don't

00:26:33.180 wonder about it at all. I don't wonder about it at all. I mean, look, plus during our administration,

00:26:39.120 I will tell you that that disastrous withdrawal from Afghanistan never would have happened if we'd

00:26:43.520 gotten four more years because we had demonstrated a willingness to use American hard power, whether it

00:26:49.660 was cruise missiles in Syria, whether it was our armed forces against ISIS, whether it was Qasem

00:26:54.380 Soleimani. I mean, Russia and and in Afghanistan, the Taliban knew when we told them, if you break

00:27:01.600 the deal, the deal's off and we're going to hit you harder than we've ever hit you before.

00:27:05.540 That that was a credible threat of the use of force. Joe Joe Biden flagged, faltered, utterly,

00:27:11.640 you know, mangled that that withdrawal from Afghanistan, claiming

00:27:17.640 13 precious American service members, including one from here in Indiana, a great young Marine named

00:27:25.040 Humberto Sanchez. But he also he greatly diminished American credibility. And I think it's emboldened

00:27:31.500 the enemies of freedom around the world. And if we had a strong Republican president in the White

00:27:37.480 House, you bet we'd have a growing economy. We'd have a secure border. We'd be dealing with these

00:27:42.260 renegade prosecutors in our major cities. They're fueling this crime wave that's that's besetting

00:27:47.840 our our families. And I think the American people would say, you bet we're the leader of the free

00:27:52.920 world. We're not going to let Russia or anybody else redraw international lines by force. But it's

00:27:57.800 the failures at home that's undermined American confidence. And that all lands right on the doorstep

00:28:02.780 of President Joe Biden. A couple of quick questions for you in the time we have the debates,

00:28:08.000 been watching them. I was surprised to see a young guy from Young American Foundation

00:28:13.740 stand up and ask about climate change. Now we know that's because Fox News made him if they gave

00:28:18.260 him the question and wanted him to ask it. Then we see this Calderon from Univision coming at all of

00:28:24.340 you like MSNBC was out there. I mean, it was like Rachel Maddow was sitting on the debate stage,

00:28:29.220 which we've had for years. But this this time around was supposed to be for Republican primary

00:28:34.040 voters. Right. They don't care about DACA. They don't care about some of the issues that

00:28:38.520 she was coming at you at. So what do you make of how the debates have gone thus far

00:28:43.160 and of Trump saying we should just cancel the rest of them because I've clearly already got it?

00:28:48.620 Well, well, I like the first debate better than the second one. You know, we actually had

00:28:55.540 we had closing statements. It was a little bit more orderly. I tried to be in the fight on the second

00:29:01.340 one, but above the fray. It just seemed to me that we missed you up there, Megan. I mean,

00:29:06.060 I've never. Thank you. You asked you asked tough questions, but you're one of those people that

00:29:10.140 actually lets people answer the question. And, you know, but to have to have one of the moderators

00:29:14.700 interrupt me while I'm answering the question. And to your point, not just in my direction,

00:29:19.720 but many of the questions began with a kind of a provocation to each of the participants,

00:29:26.600 calling them out and then asking them to respond. Look, I think this is a very serious time in the

00:29:31.700 life of our nation. I think the reason I'm running for president is not because I want to know what

00:29:36.280 it's like to work in the West Wing, Megan. I know that it's because I truly do believe that having

00:29:43.640 been a vice president, having been a governor of a successful state, having been a leader in Congress

00:29:48.200 among conservatives and led the conference that I'm the most qualified, the most experienced

00:29:53.820 to be able to lead our country back to to what's always made us strong and prosperous

00:29:58.700 and free. And to to have a debate like that, that really devolved into at times a shouting match,

00:30:05.660 I think I think was a disservice to the country. But I say, let let let the debates continue.

00:30:11.160 Let's continue to have them. I'd like to see one more participant on the stage rather than have

00:30:15.900 him out there saying we should be debating or Megan. Let me ask you that. Oh, come on. I'll come on your

00:30:21.540 podcast and debate Donald Trump just one on one. You know, people people have asked me what I think

00:30:28.340 about debating Donald Trump. And I say, I've debated Donald Trump a thousand times, just never

00:30:32.780 with the cameras on. But maybe we can fix your number one debate issue you want with if it were

00:30:37.860 just the two of you or if you get them on the stage, what's the number one thing you want to

00:30:40.920 debate him about? Well, look, I'm pro-life. I don't apologize for it. I knew it. Yeah,

00:30:47.040 it's abortion. Right. And I would really want to know why someone who led the most pro-life

00:30:52.640 administration in American history would call a heartbeat bill passed not only in Florida,

00:30:57.520 but in Georgia and Ohio and states in Iowa. Why? Why President Trump, former President Trump

00:31:04.480 called that a terrible mistake? Why was it a terrible? I'd like to know why he thinks

00:31:09.380 that election losses in 2022 were because we managed to see Roe versus Wade sent to the ash heap

00:31:18.520 of history. I mean, I really do believe the president needs to share with voters whether

00:31:25.740 or not he is going to be a champion for the right to life in states across the country and in our nation's

00:31:32.220 capital. Economic philosophies, we have separation. And of course, with regard to America's role as

00:31:39.280 leader of the free world. But everything for me begins with the unalienable right to life.

00:31:45.060 All right. Last question before I let you go. Glenn Youngkin, a lot of buzz about whether he could swoop

00:31:49.400 in and sort of take over or consolidate all the anti-Trump voting. It'd be a little late, but

00:31:55.700 he hasn't totally ruled it out. What do you make of that possibility?

00:32:00.520 Well, I mean, the water's warm. Come on in. I mean, you know, it's a free country bank. But look,

00:32:06.960 I got to tell you, having been out there in the hustings for the last six months, I mean,

00:32:10.600 I think people appreciate folks that are putting in the shoe leather. All that said, I can say I

00:32:16.240 was for Glenn Youngkin before it was cool. I did a couple of events for him in his campaign

00:32:20.760 for governor. He's just done an outstanding job and he's a genuinely good man. So that's my view. If

00:32:26.940 he wants to get in the fray, jump in the fray and we'll let the voters decide.

00:32:31.680 Oh, you two are a genuinely good man. Thank you so much for the time, Mr. Vice President. Great

00:32:36.900 to see you. Good to see you, Megan. Thank you. Up next, an unbelievable and spectacular Kelly's

00:32:44.200 Court. We are going to get into Trevor Bauer, the baseball player who was me too'd and now he's

00:32:50.220 producing receipts on the case. We're going to get into Sam Bankman freed in this crazy trial that

00:32:54.800 started with him and much, much more with the OG Kelly's Court. Great panel. Arthur and Mark are

00:33:01.800 here. Wow. Do we have a jam packed show of court cases for you today? We were going to do Kelly's

00:33:11.340 Court the whole show, but had the opportunity to sit with the former vice president and we're very

00:33:15.480 happy to have had him. But we got a lot to, as you used to say at Fox, we got a 20 pound bag of

00:33:20.560 potatoes to get into a 10 pound bag. So let's go. We're going to talk about the boy genius turned

00:33:24.620 alleged multi-billion dollar crypto criminal, Sam Bankman freed his criminal trial started this

00:33:29.760 week to the wild sex case involving one of the best baseball players in the world. Is this all a

00:33:34.540 big fake me too situation? Is she the Jussie Smollett of me too accusers? We're going to get

00:33:40.300 into it. Two of my very favorites are back. Arthur Idala is a trial attorney and managing partner of

00:33:45.980 Idala, Bertuna and Caymans. Mark Iglarsh is a criminal defense attorney at Iglarsh Law. Guys,

00:33:52.460 so happy to have you here. My God, we had a lot of homework to do for today's show. I mean,

00:33:56.140 there was a lot, there's complex cases. So I have the right panel with me. Let's talk about SBF.

00:34:02.580 So the trial's finally taking place of this guy who was said to be a crypto criminal. He was one of

00:34:09.180 those boy geniuses. He worked at this very successful Jane Capital, and then he decided he

00:34:13.880 could do it on his own. And he went out there, he formed this investment fund, Alameda Research,

00:34:19.320 and Alameda was making investments. Then he's like, you know what? I'm going to do crypto myself.

00:34:23.260 I'm going to create a crypto trading fund, and I'm going to create a cryptocurrency. And I'm going

00:34:28.120 to do this other thing under FTX, under the label FTX. Well, long story short, people were investing in

00:34:34.340 FTX by the billion. And it turns out Sam Bankman-Fried, darling of the celebrity world and of

00:34:41.600 the left in particular for all his donations, though he made some to the right too, mostly to the left,

00:34:46.040 was taking all this money out of the Alameda part, which was supposed to be investments of people's

00:34:52.460 money, and covering his shortfalls on the FTX, or reverse that. He was taking money from the FTX

00:34:58.920 exchange and using it to put into the Alameda hedge fund. And that's a no-no. You're not allowed

00:35:05.660 to do that. I'll read to you the way Bloomberg put it, which is pretty simple. He said,

00:35:13.120 the essential charges against Sam Bankman-Fried are customers deposited billions at his crypto

00:35:19.220 exchange, FTX, to buy crypto. Then Alameda Research, his trading firm, secretly took that

00:35:25.340 money to gamble on crypto tokens and made weird, illiquid venture investments. A lot of the money

00:35:31.620 also seemed to be siphoned off to make political donations by celebrity endorsements, pay for

00:35:35.540 Bahamas real estate, for Bankman-Fried and his family. And when customers started to ask for their

00:35:40.940 money back last November, it wasn't there. It's not good. So he's at trial starting today.

00:35:48.880 Arthur, you tell me, how would you defend this case?

00:35:52.360 Well, I know this judge very well. I've appeared before him many times. And the reason why I bring

00:35:59.780 that up is he puts a lot of handcuffs on you. I was in the courtroom when Joe Tacopino was just

00:36:07.000 trying Donald Trump's case in front of this exact same judge. And I can't tell, I lost count of how

00:36:12.500 many times he warned Mr. Tacopino during cross-examination that he was either going to sit

00:36:17.780 him down or sanction him. And as Mark will tell you, a lot of that goes into your strategy. What

00:36:24.420 will the judge allow you to do? What can't you do? What arguments can you make? What arguments can't

00:36:31.280 you make? One of the arguments they want to make is they want to blame a lot on lawyers. One of the

00:36:37.600 hugest law firms, as you know, Megan is Sullivan and Cromwell. And they were there and they were

00:36:41.640 advising him and they want to blame the lawyers. And I believe the judge has already ruled. No,

00:36:45.840 you can't do that. Well, boy, does that take a bullet out of your arsenal if you can't blame

00:36:51.540 the people who are giving you legal advice that, oh, it's okay to make the transfers of money

00:36:55.460 from X to Y. And the judge is like, no, no, you can't argue that to the jury. That's devastating.

00:36:59.900 That is a problem. I mean, Mark, the way I see it is the prosecution, they opened yesterday saying

00:37:04.680 this guy deliberately lied to the world. That's a quote. They said, quote, he was taking these

00:37:09.720 customer deposits and spending them for himself, not only for his place in the Bahamas, but his parents,

00:37:17.460 who we'll get to in a minute. They were cashing in big time. These revered Stanford law professors.

00:37:22.560 Well, as it turns out, they were all too gleeful about taking all these people's deposits. As far

00:37:27.900 as I know, they haven't given any of them back. But the defense got up there and said, this is a

00:37:31.680 well-intentioned guy. He acted in good faith. There was no intention to defraud. And you can't,

00:37:38.000 you know, can't make a criminal out of somebody who just kind of screwed up a business.

00:37:43.080 That's the defense. Ladies and gentlemen, the jury, my client screwed up, but it doesn't meet the

00:37:49.880 elements of the crime. And when people invest in businesses, there's no guarantees. Things can go

00:37:56.780 belly up because things happen. And in this case, they're going to explain how each allocation,

00:38:04.320 like to a condo in the Bahamas and other things that he spent money on for the benefit of the

00:38:10.040 corporation. And even if hindsight's 20, 20, and maybe he wouldn't do those things moving forward

00:38:16.160 at the time, that was the decision he made. And maybe it wasn't the best one. It ultimately led

00:38:21.640 to the failure of the company, but it wasn't criminal is going to be the argument. Do I buy

00:38:26.300 it? Not necessarily, but that's the argument. It's also the excess, Megan. You mentioned his

00:38:32.960 parents. They bought some, I don't know how much it was, million, multiple, multiple million dollar

00:38:37.540 house, 50 maybe million dollar house in the Bahamas. His dad was on the payroll. His girlfriend was the

00:38:44.000 CEO of the corporation. I mean, that's the guy. By the way, I know the prosecutor, Nick Rosa. He's

00:38:50.960 the one I was dealing with on Rudy Giuliani's subpoena in the Southern District. I know Chris

00:38:55.520 Everdell, the criminal defense attorney. He also tried the Ghislaine Maxwell case, which I'm working

00:39:00.860 on the appeal as we speak. They're very fine lawyers in front of a very experienced, tough judge,

00:39:07.060 Bill Clinton, appointee. He knows his stuff, the judge, but he plays a role in the trial,

00:39:14.000 in my opinion, more than he should, which is going to restrict only the defense more than the

00:39:19.940 prosecutors. Here's what, just a word on the parents. So they, Barbara Freed and Joseph Bankman

00:39:26.580 are their names. They, according to Bloomberg, were active participants in and beneficiaries

00:39:31.400 of Bankman Freed's quote, generosity. They were, let's see, just to give you a couple, because FTX,

00:39:39.620 Bankman Freed's firm, just sued both of them, alleging they siphoned millions of bucks from the

00:39:43.620 exchange for their own personal benefit. They said that the father here, Bankman, portrayed himself

00:39:49.620 as the proverbial adult in the room, but instead of raising alarms about misconduct, he stayed silent

00:39:55.500 and actively worked to suppress efforts to expose the fraud. He denies all of this.

00:39:59.700 They allege that he enriched himself, and so did his wife, including a $10 million cash gift and a

00:40:05.740 $16.4 million luxury property in the Bahamas, that the dad also wanted a million dollar annual salary

00:40:11.780 for himself, complaining when he only received around $200,000 a year, and that he received a

00:40:17.160 cameo appearance, which he demanded in that Super Bowl ad that featured Larry David, because he wanted

00:40:23.520 to see himself on screen. There he is. And finally, he then funneled $5.5 million to Stanford because he

00:40:33.220 wanted to look like a big shot. So the dad and the mom, they deny this, but if true, they sound

00:40:38.760 disgusting, too. All right. That's my take on it. Meanwhile, though, Mark, what they're saying is

00:40:43.340 the defense lawyer got up there and said something important, which we did hear earlier in this case.

00:40:47.540 The defense is arguing. Well, he put it in question form, but there is a question about whether it was

00:40:56.480 written into the code that Alameda, the investment arm, right, it's not the crypto exchange FTX,

00:41:03.460 Alameda, the investment arm, was allowed to borrow an almost unlimited amount of money from FTX.

00:41:11.180 They argued that far from being a secret, the defense claimed this bit of information was open

00:41:16.840 and transparent, and any senior developer at FTX could see it, that you were allowed to take money

00:41:23.980 out of FTX and use it over at Alameda. I mean, if that I don't know how that works,

00:41:30.280 whether it was disclosed to investors or just FTX employees, that would be important to know the

00:41:35.220 difference of, but that could be ballgame potentially. Yeah. Yeah. Let me break this

00:41:38.940 down for you. If some of your viewers are confused because they're not even sure what you just said

00:41:44.000 and or they don't know if money is supposed to go here or there, then they're no different than

00:41:50.360 the average juror who has no comparison for the most part intellectually with some of the prosecutors

00:41:58.280 who need to dumb this down really simply. What they do benefit from are the things that you said

00:42:05.360 earlier, parents making millions of dollars that that these jurors won't see in a lifetime for what

00:42:11.760 those types of scenarios really resonate. Plus the victim stories. We have to emphasize if you're the

00:42:18.760 prosecutor, you've got to emphasize how people were hurt. People.

00:42:22.940 That's how they opened their case. They opened their case by putting a victim. They opened their

00:42:27.480 case yesterday after openings by putting a victim on the stand.

00:42:30.820 You got to do that. You got to get them to care. What do they care about this? You got to get them

00:42:35.640 to care and you got to show that what he did was so outrageous, so beyond any realm that they're used

00:42:42.080 to, that it equates to this emotional reaction that could potentially be criminal.

00:42:49.160 But the flip side of the cross-examination of that victim is you knew that there were risks involved.

00:42:57.420 You signed paperwork when you made the investment with us talking about there was nothing guaranteed.

00:43:02.240 You signed paperwork that you had to give us your net worth, that you were investing money that you

00:43:07.280 could lose and you would still be able to pay the mortgage and the kids' college tuition. And it

00:43:12.480 was just a deal that went bad. Weren't you be complaining about the $16 million house in the

00:43:16.840 Bahamas if you made $16 million from your investment? I don't think you would. And that's,

00:43:22.420 I think, the way you have to attack those victims.

00:43:24.600 Well, I wouldn't have known about it, but for this thing going kaplunk and learning about the fraud,

00:43:31.480 you're right. I wouldn't have complained. But what I learned after disturbs me and clearly

00:43:37.020 evidence is that I was defrauded. That I put money into this crypto exchange thinking that I was

00:43:45.340 going to be betting and buying on crypto and that when I found out there might be a problem at the

00:43:51.480 crypto exchange in terms of its solvency, I went and knocked on the door and said,

00:43:55.560 I would like my money back. I'm kind of done with this whole experiment. I'll take it back even at a

00:43:59.940 loss, but I no longer want to keep the bet on the table. And the answer was, oh, it's all gone.

00:44:05.940 I know what the bank statement said, that you had some in there, but sort of made off like,

00:44:11.100 it's gone because we took all this money out of the FTX crypto exchange and we used it over here

00:44:17.840 in the Alameda Investment Fund because we were losing over there too. We wanted to cover our

00:44:21.780 losses. Oh, and we also gave $55 million to Tom Brady to appear in an ad for us. And we paid Larry

00:44:27.060 David $10 million to appear in that Super Bowl ad. And we paid for a $16.4 million condo for my parents

00:44:33.080 down in the Bahamas. Nevermind mine as Sam Bankman free and my girlfriends. Like, sorry,

00:44:38.360 that's what happened. We took it out of the crypto line. We put it over here in Alameda. Then we

00:44:42.720 either blew it or we spend it in the Bahamas. And sorry, that was just good business investing.

00:44:47.760 I just feel like if you can explain it simply to the jury, they're going to get Arthur that I don't

00:44:53.140 care whether he had an evil mind in doing it. He was at a minimum criminally reckless with billions of

00:45:01.760 dollars. But the argument maybe Judge Kaplan would allow them to make is in summation is like,

00:45:10.700 ladies and gentlemen, do you know how much the president of General Motors makes? $29 million.

00:45:15.760 Do you know how much General Motors loses every year? Mixed amount of dollars. Do you know how much

00:45:19.720 the stock went down last year? Why amount of dollars? Do you know who invests in General Motors

00:45:24.660 stock? All the pension funds, all the civil servants, you know what? They all lost money. Do you see the

00:45:30.100 president of General Motors in this courtroom in front of Judge Kaplan being charged with crimes?

00:45:34.240 No. So when you're the head of a corporation, you're entitled to whatever compensation that

00:45:41.640 board has awarded you the same way General Motors has. They're targeting this young man. And then you

00:45:46.460 have to figure out some angle of why this administration particularly is targeting him.

00:45:52.980 All right. Wait a minute. Wait a minute. Wait a minute. Wait a minute. Wait a minute. All right.

00:45:55.980 You know what? Actually, make your comment. We're going to have to continue this across the

00:45:58.860 rate because there's too much more to go over. Go ahead, Mark.

00:46:00.380 I will. I will say this very briefly. I'm salivating if the prosecutors make the argument that you just

00:46:04.880 made that, look, if he was just criminally negligent, if he. Listen, prosecutors are banking

00:46:10.840 on this being intentional, willful fraud. If you retreat as a prosecutor to a softer position,

00:46:17.320 like, all right, maybe just screw things up. That's exactly what the defense wants.

00:46:21.860 But you don't have to. Does he actually have to prove that the prosecution that Sam Bankman

00:46:27.320 Fried knew in his mind this was wrong, that the money wasn't there and that he was making false

00:46:34.300 representations to the people over in the FTX crypto exchange that the money was there?

00:46:39.000 Or is it enough to prove he was a reckless manager who did not oversee the staff, who was completely

00:46:46.920 out to lunch as they were making these massive purchases and transferring money between the two

00:46:51.580 as though they were interchangeable and that all these people got hurt?

00:46:54.580 That's not a criminal fraud case that you can't sort of you can't get recklessness up to the

00:46:59.300 proper standard. I don't think that my jurors are going to convict. You know, that's what I want.

00:47:05.500 I've had clients where I say, look, he screwed up. It wasn't intentional. And regardless of what

00:47:10.740 the law requires, most jurors want to see that kind of level of criminality before they strip someone

00:47:17.540 of their liberty. I don't know. I'm not sure that's going to do it in these financial cases.

00:47:23.380 They don't always have the smoking gun of like I knew like made off. I knew the whole thing was a fraud.

00:47:28.020 They have just one level down, which is I was completely reckless with your money.

00:47:32.740 I really wanted the beautiful Bahamian mansion and I thought I'd make it back. I didn't think I was

00:47:37.860 doing anything wrong. You know, I thought this line in the agreement covered me. A lot of people have

00:47:41.940 gone to jail for less than this. But wait, there's more because Michael Lewis was with Sam Bankman

00:47:47.220 Freed for the past few years, was doing this in-depth story on him and happened to just get

00:47:51.300 very lucky. I mean, from a journalist perspective, when everything blew up, he gave an interview to

00:47:56.420 Sixty the other night. We're going to talk about what he said, and then I'll play you the piece of

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00:48:33.540 So, guys, we just went back to check, and it does appear that even the defense is not arguing that

00:48:42.820 this disclosure was made to the customers or to any of the investors or depositors that they

00:48:48.900 thought they had the ability at Alameda and FTX to just take the money out of the one pot and move

00:48:54.420 it on over to the other pot at any point. There was something in the code that might have clued in

00:48:58.900 FTX or Alameda senior executives, but not the customers, not not the people making the deposits.

00:49:04.340 So that's that's the problem. That's where we get into, like, highly criminal behavior.

00:49:10.260 And he's now arguing like I just had so much money in all the accounts. I didn't know I was a busy

00:49:16.820 guy. I was playing my computer games. I was doing my investments, my my whatever they called it,

00:49:22.500 kind of donations. Can't remember that weird term. What was it? Oh, my effective altruism.

00:49:28.260 And this led to Michael Lewis discussing the core of Sam Bankman's defense and problem on 60 Minutes.

00:49:37.140 Michael Lewis was following the whole thing. I don't think he realized he was in the midst of

00:49:40.020 a potential criminal case. But, you know, sometimes the reporter, you step in it and it's gold.

00:49:44.020 And that's what happened. So here he is talking about it because he's got a new book out on it.

00:49:47.460 What's the toughest question you think Sam's gonna have to answer?

00:49:51.940 How do you not know that eight billion dollars that's not yours is in your private fund? I mean,

00:49:57.460 really, how do you not know? Explain eight billion dollars is in your private fund

00:50:02.420 that belongs to other people. And you're saying you didn't know. Please explain how that's possible.

00:50:06.580 Did you do that? Yeah, I did. What did he say?

00:50:08.180 He said, you have to understand that when it went in there, it was a rounding error

00:50:11.460 that I felt like we had infinity dollars in there that I wasn't even thinking about it.

00:50:15.140 OK, so, Mark, pursuant to your belief that

00:50:18.660 being a dumbass businessman is not illegal, could that work?

00:50:22.900 One, you got 12 jurors in federal court, takes one juror to say, you know what? Yeah, he was dopey.

00:50:30.820 He was young. He didn't have the requisite experience. He made mistakes. As long as you

00:50:35.860 concede that like a good lawyer would. Arthur out of the gate is always conceding his client's

00:50:42.020 shortfalls, how he could have done things differently. But it's just not criminal.

00:50:47.140 Mark, I would I would agree with you. It was eight million dollars.

00:50:53.780 Eight billion dollars. I mean, look, I love that term, Megan. I've never heard the term

00:50:59.780 infinity, infinity money like that. It's really that's a lot of money.

00:51:05.300 My six year old just learned about infinity in school. And now he's like,

00:51:08.660 Daddy, I love you infinity, which is beautiful. But money is usually not infinity.

00:51:14.740 So I don't know, Mark, how we could stand in front of jurors. And these are jurors who are,

00:51:20.660 you know, electrical workers, school teachers, you know, maybe an accountant here or there

00:51:26.420 and say, oh, eight billion dollars was just something that slipped through the cracks with

00:51:31.140 a straight face. I don't know how you say that to them.

00:51:33.060 So whether it's he's getting ready to blame the girlfriend, right? This girlfriend, Carolyn Ellison,

00:51:38.340 who is a very bizarre but very interesting figure in all of this. She, too, was at Jane Capital.

00:51:44.340 She was sort of wooed by Sam Bankman free to come with him and do this thing. She thought he had all

00:51:50.020 the magical answers. Then they're impossibly. She appears to have developed a physical attraction for

00:51:56.340 him. And they had some affair and she didn't know if she should continue with the affair. She didn't

00:52:03.380 know if she should continue running Alameda, the investment firm, because she didn't really have

00:52:07.700 the qualifications. She had only felt like a middling employee at the Jane Capital. But she's

00:52:11.460 like, what am I doing running this? But she was running. And maybe that's why he didn't know that,

00:52:16.260 you know, they were going to lose all this money that then he would have to borrow from his crypto

00:52:19.620 exchange to to to, you know, fill back up. She's turned on him. Many of the executives have turned

00:52:26.820 on him. This is his biggest challenge. Right. The top execs are all like he did it. He knew this is

00:52:32.180 fraud. And here is The New York Times, The Daily, you know, the The Daily podcast called The Daily of

00:52:38.180 The New York Times and their reporter, David Yaffe Bellany, talking about the one key piece of evidence

00:52:44.900 that he thinks is really going to sink Sam Bankman free. And it revolves around the girlfriend.

00:52:50.580 They have a recording that somebody made of a company wide meeting, an Alameda staff meeting

00:52:57.060 that Caroline held just as FTX and Alameda were collapsing, where she explained to her employees,

00:53:04.500 this is what's happening. A few months ago, we had this massive hole in our accounts, we needed to fill

00:53:09.860 it. And Sam and I and a couple of other people authorized the decision to fill that hole using customer

00:53:16.340 funds. And this recording sounds like an admission of guilt. And it's pretty clearly going to be a

00:53:21.940 powerful bit of evidence in the courtroom. Right. Because, Arthur, the prosecution is going to say

00:53:28.420 he knew it wasn't infinity money. He knew there was a big hole in Alameda. He chose to steal from the FTX

00:53:36.780 crypto exchange to cover the losses so that people wouldn't know. And he banked on being able to make it

00:53:42.820 back over on the FTX crypto exchange before anybody noticed and before anybody looked at

00:53:49.780 the Bahamian estates and all that crap. And he failed. He failed because some other guy

00:53:56.900 kicked the tires at that FTX crypto exchange. He was thinking about buying it. And he was like,

00:54:01.860 oh, wait, this thing stinks to high heaven. Not only am I not buying it, everybody else should be aware

00:54:06.260 this is a hot mess. And then there was a quote run on the bank or the FTX crypto exchange and it

00:54:12.180 imploded. But that's going to be the prosecution's. He knew he went to his girlfriend. He said, move the

00:54:17.380 money. Holy shit. That gets to knowledge and intent. And that tape gets to like, what do you do with

00:54:27.220 that? I mean, today's day and age, there's tapes everywhere. And you have to as a defense attorney,

00:54:32.660 you have to try to grade it down into like a word by word and see if there's any way that you could

00:54:38.500 use, you know, we just heard it outright. Right. But when I was in this position about on a homicide

00:54:44.740 case, I took every word and I broke it down into piece by piece to the jury. And, you know, Mark says

00:54:51.460 it only took one. In that particular case, I got three. So it turned out to be a hung jury where my

00:54:56.740 client absolutely admitted on tape that he paid $75,000 to a hit man to kill his business partner

00:55:03.380 so he could get money from him. And somehow or another, breaking down word by word, yeah,

00:55:08.340 he gave him $75,000 to kill Mr. Stahl. So what? Somehow or another, by forcing every word,

00:55:15.460 I got some jurors to think that there was reasonable doubt. And that's the only out they're

00:55:19.140 going to have. I mean, she took a plea. I don't know if there's a cooperation agreement

00:55:23.780 where she's going to now testify and we can cross-examine her about the tape.

00:55:28.820 But for the people watching here or listening here, Megan, he was never offered a plea because

00:55:33.940 you may be thinking like, why is this guy going to trial? He really has no choice but to go to trial.

00:55:40.180 And where the other people did get pleased and did take them, you know, he's hanging in the wind.

00:55:45.860 He could get put behind bars for life. By the way, to my audience, this is how Arthur and Mark spend

00:55:50.020 their days doing it. Like people who are hiring hit men allegedly to have people killed. But it's

00:55:55.780 an important role in our constitutional system. So I didn't do that. You didn't do that Jones day,

00:56:00.340 Megan. That was one of the kind of cases you handled. No, no judgment. No disdain. Come on now,

00:56:05.060 people. Come on. We were only handling the noble cases like defending RJ Reynolds

00:56:10.500 on the cigarette lawsuits. It was noble work.

00:56:13.380 Oh, thank you. Oh, I did. I never worked on those cases.

00:56:17.860 But that was a big Jones day paying client. OK, so here's my other thing.

00:56:24.180 All the celebrities that are getting caught up in this. So I already said Stanford got $5 million

00:56:28.740 from the dad, the adult in the room who was like, I want $1 million a year,

00:56:33.220 not just 200,000. And the dad who insisted that he be in the Super Bowl

00:56:38.100 commercial. Well, Tom Brady, I didn't realize it was this much, got paid $55 million to advertise

00:56:47.040 for FTX, $55 million. And Michael Lewis was asked about Tom Brady because he interviewed him

00:56:54.600 after everything collapsed. And here's what he had to say about that.

00:56:59.100 How did Tom Brady react to this? The first reaction was very sad. It was sadness. He

00:57:04.180 clearly really liked him. And he really liked the hope that he brought. I mean, a lot of people

00:57:08.900 wanted there to be a Sam. There's still a Sam Bankman-Fried-shaped hole in the world that now

00:57:13.720 needs filling. That character would be very useful. What he represented. What he wanted to do with the

00:57:19.380 resources. And Brady was, I think, crushed. And I think his time has gone by. And he ceased to get

00:57:25.100 a really good explanation about what's happened. I think he's just like, he tricked me. I'm angry.

00:57:33.120 I don't want to have anything to do with it anymore.

00:57:36.940 It looks like from what we've been able to glean, most of that money was paid in FTX stock or crypto.

00:57:45.020 So he lost most of it, but not all of it, according to what we've read. So I wonder,

00:57:49.920 because there is a lawsuit now, I think, against Brady, against Steph Curry, against Larry David,

00:57:55.740 claiming you shouldn't have got out there and pushed this stuff on us,

00:57:59.420 against we unknowing investors before doing your homework. Because I never knew who Sam

00:58:04.480 Bankman-Fried was, but I knew who Tom Brady was. And when I saw Tom Brady, Mark Iglarsch,

00:58:09.580 I went and invested because I trusted him. So what do you make of that piece of this case?

00:58:14.180 This isn't on Tom Brady and Steph Curry. They're not experts. And when you start scratching the

00:58:19.300 surface, even the government, it takes a while before you get to the fraud. So I don't like

00:58:25.560 that standard at all. That is an outrageous sum of money, but it's Tom Brady. And he was able to

00:58:31.580 command that. Good for him. A guy who threw an interception first pass ever in college turned

00:58:37.000 out to be a guy who then later became someone who's worth 55 million, allegedly, for pushing

00:58:41.680 this stuff. But listen, if he knows that he's involved in a fraudulent company and promoting

00:58:47.200 that, that's one thing. And meeting with the guy and doing his due diligence, okay, that's one thing.

00:58:53.260 But if he doesn't know that there's fraud, I think that you don't take money away or condemn

00:58:58.680 celebrities for simply using their celebrity to promote a product.

00:59:03.960 Yeah. I mean, we did that. Everyone promoted Nutrisystem or any of these weight loss things.

00:59:09.100 I mean, that probably don't really work. I mean, everyone would be in big trouble.

00:59:15.140 Yeah. I think it's just interesting because he's such a worldwide celebrity that he's involved in

00:59:19.820 this in any way. That's why people focus in on him.

00:59:22.060 Again, is it accurate that Stanford is going to give back the money, the $5 million that they gave?

00:59:27.240 That's what they say. That's what they say. I mean, I got to tell you, I know exactly the resort

00:59:32.200 that they built all these houses at, that they bought all these houses at for Sam, for Caroline,

00:59:36.660 for Sam's parents. It's the Albany Resort in the Bahamas. You can get there directly from JFK. It's a

00:59:41.500 two-hour flight. Boom. You're right there. It's absolutely beautiful. We've been there.

00:59:46.060 It's great, especially if you have little kids, they have fun water slides. And in all the times I went

00:59:50.760 there, I never knew that there was a crook right over there, right around the corner. And his

00:59:54.780 parents too. I was watching my kids go down the water slide. He was watching his kid hose all of

01:00:00.160 his guests. So kind of, kind of the same in any event. Shocking. And I'm going to have to look

01:00:05.580 into whether I can buy real estate down there real cheap now, real cheap. Okay. Let's talk about

01:00:10.940 this, uh, baseball player, Trevor Bauer. I'm going to be honest. I had never heard of this guy before

01:00:17.940 the story. I'm not a sports person, but apparently he was extremely successful in the, in the, in the

01:00:24.200 world of baseball. Um, and then he got me too. And this story has dominated over the news over the past

01:00:31.800 couple of days. He was an MLB pitcher for anyone, anyone, the Dodgers. Yes. See, they don't know

01:00:40.420 either. Yeah. The Dodgers. Thank you. He had $102 million deal, three year, $102 million deal. So this

01:00:46.340 guy was big. Um, then along comes a woman named Lindsay Hill. She's 29 now. I think she was 27 when

01:00:53.960 she made the accusations and she's from San Diego, not far from LA. And she accused Trevor of sexually

01:01:01.920 assaulting her. She went in court. She tried to get a temporary restraining order against him.

01:01:08.120 Did not get it, which is interesting and important. Um, but went on accusing him of sexually assaulting

01:01:15.400 her. And ultimately he sued her for defamation saying it's not true. And the case has just wrapped

01:01:23.000 up after a couple of years where he did not pay her $1. She did not get, she didn't get money from

01:01:30.860 him, but she got a $300,000 payment from an insurance company and she did not pay him any

01:01:36.260 money, but he is out there now basically accusing her of being the Jussie Smollett of me to accusers.

01:01:44.840 And if you listen to the four minute video he posted, it's very compelling. I'll play you just a

01:01:49.900 little on, um, what he is saying. He's talking about the texts that he unearthed in the discovery

01:01:57.260 process that she was sending around before she ever met Trevor, before she would come to be in

01:02:04.560 his bed. Here's 17. Next victim star pitcher for the Dodgers, a text Lindsay Hill sent to a friend

01:02:12.640 before she ever even met me. What should I steal? She asked another in reference to visiting my house

01:02:17.440 for the first time. The answer, take his money. So how might that work? I'm going to his house

01:02:23.060 Wednesday. She said, I already have my hooks in. You know how I roll. Then after the first time we

01:02:28.440 met net worth is 51 mil. She said, bitch, you better secure the bag was the response. But, but how was

01:02:35.260 she going to do that? Need daddy to choke me out. She said, being an absolute whore to try to get in

01:02:40.280 on his 51 million. Read another text. I can only imagine the field day you would have with that

01:02:47.600 one, Arthur Idalla, had you been representing Trevor Bauer. Yeah. Um, with that being said though,

01:02:55.580 Megan, cause I saw this video, not even preparing for this, but I'll tell you who sent it to me,

01:03:00.780 my co-counsel on the, um, Harvey Weinstein trial, because we did have similar, um, emails like this

01:03:10.340 in the Harvey Weinstein trial, not necessarily about getting money, but about the love affair that they

01:03:16.300 had and how much she loved him. And you can't wait to meet his mom, my mom, et cetera. Um, the fact

01:03:22.400 that there's a minimal amount of money exchanged here and a guy that's worth this amount of money,

01:03:27.620 uh, or was, I should say worth this amount of money shows that her lawyers, who, as your viewers

01:03:35.180 would know, they only make money off of what she gets. So they work their tail off. And under a best

01:03:41.300 case scenario here, they worked for years on a case where at best they're getting a hundred thousand

01:03:46.500 dollars, which sounds like a lot, but for a big law firm, it's not a lot. They were looking to add

01:03:50.740 at least another zero to that for $3 million where they would get a million dollar legal fee.

01:03:54.860 So obviously they lost faith in her ability to continue this lawsuit and to go forward. Uh,

01:04:02.060 although on the flip side of the coin, the medical records here lean pretty heavily in her favor

01:04:08.180 as someone who received some form of abuse. Okay, but there's a reason for that. There's a reason

01:04:10.620 for that. And we'll get into that. So first I want to just correct something I said. She got her

01:04:14.460 temporary restraining order, which you can get basically for nothing, but they denied her the

01:04:18.600 permanent restraining order where you actually have to prove more of a case. Um, and there,

01:04:22.400 she was able to produce documentation showing black eyes and a busted lip and some medical records

01:04:31.040 showing injury to her mark. But what he produced was text messages showing, forgive me, this isn't a

01:04:39.280 nice way of putting it, but it's literally true that she asked for it, that she wanted rough sex with him.

01:04:46.140 They had two sexual encounters and that she literally was asking for him to beat her up,

01:04:51.860 to choke her out, to slap her, to punch her. And that is why she was denied the original, um,

01:04:59.780 restraining or the permanent restraining order. Let me read to you what the judge said when denying

01:05:05.760 the permanent restraining order. The judge said, uh, Ms. Hill's injuries as photographed are terrible.

01:05:12.860 And under most circumstances, merely seeing photographs such as these would serve as a

01:05:17.780 per se condemnation of the perpetrator of such injuries. But the judge went on to say that she

01:05:23.200 believed Hill quote, had objectively voiced consent to specific acts of rough sex. And the injury she

01:05:30.780 suffered could be viewed as a natural consequences of the acts to which she consented petitioner had

01:05:36.040 and has the right to engage in any kind of sex as a consenting adult that she wants with another

01:05:41.560 consenting adult. She was not ambiguous about wanting rough sex in the party's first encounter

01:05:46.700 and wanting rougher sex in the second encounter. The judge ruled adding that Mr. Bauer did not pursue

01:05:54.700 the woman or threatened to coerce her into sexual activity. And before I give you the floor,

01:06:00.080 I'm just going to read for the audience, those texts. Okay. That the judge was looking at that did

01:06:06.040 not make their way around all the publications that condemned Trevor Bauer like that. When they

01:06:12.100 saw the pictures of the injuries, here's number one, he writes, we only have segments, but he writes to

01:06:17.160 her, yes, ma'am, whatever you want. She writes, but off when, but off when it's time to choke me out.

01:06:24.740 Thanks. You're the best. He writes, you want to go out, huh? She writes, see, that was a game

01:06:30.900 changer. This is clearly after the first interlude. He writes, tell me more. She responds, never been

01:06:36.800 more turned on in my life. Give me all the pain roar. Um, then on page two, she writes now that I

01:06:44.400 know what it feels like to wake up from it, uh, though it'll probably feel just as good to wake up

01:06:49.600 from that. She's talking about getting choked out. He writes, God, you just turned me on so much.

01:06:53.840 She writes mission accomplished. Then he writes now. I just want my arm around your neck from behind.

01:06:59.480 She responds, do it harder. And they keep going like this. I mean, I could keep, I could go on,

01:07:04.760 but this is the woman who's claiming now, you know, she goes to court to try to get a restraining

01:07:10.840 order against the guy saying he's posing a physical threat to her. I mean, how does that even happen

01:07:16.300 when you've got text messages like this? Okay. First of all, please don't read anymore. I already

01:07:20.640 need a shower after that. Um, I have a problem obviously with what you just talked about. That

01:07:28.760 said, I'm not in the bedroom. I don't know if there were acts that crossed the line that she did not

01:07:35.000 consent to. I can assure you of one thing. And I speak for Arthur also as a zealous criminal defense

01:07:40.440 attorney. There is no way in hell that she would ever get a jury to convict him of anything or pay

01:07:49.660 out a dollar to her. If I'm zealously defending, um, him in that case, there's so much to work with

01:07:58.000 that her testimony wouldn't mean much after all of that. Right. But kudos to the judge, because I,

01:08:05.880 I'll be telling you, Megan, I can only speak for my jurisdiction here in the five boroughs.

01:08:11.940 I think in a high profile case like this to cover their own, but I think a judge would issue a, uh,

01:08:20.180 a, we call them an order of protection on an order of protection here. Um, and just to say,

01:08:26.260 you have to always stay away from her. If you go anywhere near her, um, you know, it's, it's a felony

01:08:31.660 violation and you can be punishable up to seven years in jail. That just has been as of late,

01:08:37.340 the, the, the fallback position, because this way a judge is protected because 99% of the times

01:08:43.620 nothing's going to happen. There's that 1% of the time where a guy will violate it and, and they will,

01:08:49.440 um, the judges winds up on the cover of the paper. This judge allowed this person out or I gave him

01:08:54.940 what's called a limited order of protection, which means you're allowed to be with the person,

01:08:58.420 but you can't hurt them. Um, so I just want to commend the judge for having the intestinal fortitude

01:09:04.300 for doing the right thing here. So she says, she claims that he physically hurt and traumatized her

01:09:11.220 after the first incident. And by the way, this applies to everyone, male and female. Don't do

01:09:18.100 this. Don't go home with somebody you don't know. Don't bring somebody home who you don't know,

01:09:21.740 especially if you're a MLB baseball player with $102 million. That's fucking stupid. Sorry. It's stupid.

01:09:28.160 Wait a minute. Hold on. Hold on. Hold on. Hold on. Hold on. Megan. Wait, wait, wait, wait,

01:09:36.160 wait, wait. Hold on. Everything I said is right. What's your problem? I'm 25 years old.

01:09:41.620 Go ahead. What'd you say? No, I'll let Arthur go first. I feel the same way. Go.

01:09:48.180 I'm 25 years old. I'm a healthy, young, single male. And I meet a young lady and we start making

01:09:53.700 out at the bar and she's like, where do you live? And I live three blocks from here. I want to come

01:09:57.320 to your house. I'm supposed to say, no, Megan Kelly said, don't do it. Yes, you are. You're,

01:10:02.040 you are because you call in the law, a target, a big old target. What do you want me to tell you?

01:10:09.820 Oh, no, no, no, no, no. This is why I know I'm right. This is why I know I'm right. I know this

01:10:13.880 from somebody who knows, I don't, I don't think I've ever said his name publicly, so I won't hear

01:10:17.880 either, but he's literally one of the biggest baseball stars we've ever had. And this guy,

01:10:21.620 before he brings a woman back to his apartment, the woman comes to the door. There is a security

01:10:25.860 guard at the door. The security guard films the woman on camera to say, are you here of your own

01:10:30.640 volition? Do you feel okay? Are you intoxicated? But no, I'm good. I'm here. I'm ready. They go,

01:10:35.820 they do the thing. And when the woman leaves, the guy videotapes her again, asked her all the same

01:10:41.000 questions, gets her on tape. That's what they do to protect this guy who is literally one of the most

01:10:44.740 famous people in the world. And I understand why, because he knows he's a target. There are

01:10:51.100 women like this who are willing to hurt you. All right. So if Arthur and I are being intellectually

01:10:56.180 honest, we would tell you, you're right. The perfect way to be is to make your big money,

01:11:01.820 stay in your house, never go out, don't have any interaction with the opposite sex.

01:11:05.420 I didn't say that. All right. But that's love, commitment, then sex. But if you're going to do it

01:11:11.680 that other way, get the guard at the door. Okay. But the next best thing, the metaphoric

01:11:16.280 guard at the door is texting with a woman, having a record that we're going to be choking each other,

01:11:21.880 all that horrible stuff. I don't mean to judge it. That's another thing. You're winning my argument

01:11:26.600 for me. No, you're winning my argument because I don't think you should do it at all, at all.

01:11:30.400 But I really don't think you should have rough sex where you choke a woman out with a fucking

01:11:35.500 stranger. That's insane. Objection. That's judgment. That's what you're not into,

01:11:40.380 allegedly. If he's into it, stupid, stupid. I do care a little what he's into because this is

01:11:48.460 messed up. He's gross. I'm sorry. But like, who would go to bed with a woman on night one

01:11:52.600 and choke her out and then say the next time, I can't wait to get my armor on your neck

01:11:56.520 so that you pass out. And she asked for it. What kind of a man? That's bizarre. I don't have to

01:12:03.840 like him. I don't have to like him. And I don't, I don't like him. Doesn't mean I think he should

01:12:07.720 have lost his baseball contract, but we'll get to the other women who came forward against

01:12:11.120 him. I'm just saying it's stupid ass practice for somebody like that to go home with a stranger

01:12:16.280 and quote, choke her out. What do you think is going to happen? I just, as long as you're

01:12:20.360 talking about people of that caliber who are targeted, you're not talking about like a regular

01:12:25.480 male and female who meet in a bar and pay as fireworks. I don't, I don't, I hope you're

01:12:30.860 not telling us that that young man can't take this young woman home.

01:12:35.860 Is this a confession? What'd you do?

01:12:37.860 No, I'm more of the Derek Jeter guy. They, you know, he used to give them the care package

01:12:42.720 when they left an autographed ball and autographed Jersey with a car waiting for them downstairs

01:12:47.060 to take them back to their house, which was very well thought out there, Mr. Jeter.

01:12:51.420 Ladies, he's not going to put a ring on it. If you go to bed with him on night one or night

01:12:56.020 do. Oh, here we go. They're all looking for a good Catholic. Nana would be so proud of you,

01:13:04.580 Megan. Nana would be so proud of you right now. I am a good Catholic girl. Don't give it up that

01:13:09.620 easily, ladies. That's how you wind up with a Doug Brunt. Okay. Um, yes, I'm passing my own values

01:13:15.340 on, but I think it was stupid of him, but I also think this woman was incredibly dishonest. Now she

01:13:21.160 had medical records showing a nurse saying that, for example, the injuries around her genitals were

01:13:28.020 the worst she'd ever seen this nurse. Um, but that's only half the context because the woman

01:13:33.380 was asking to be hit and to be hurt and so on. And so I think in the end they really got to the

01:13:38.280 truth. Here's just a little bit more of the evidence that Bauer's now presenting, uh, because

01:13:43.040 keep in mind, this woman has not come out and said, I'm very sorry. I made it up. I should have given

01:13:47.140 the full context. She's not, she's remaining steadfast in her accusations, uh, though the

01:13:53.280 lawsuit's gone away, his death against her. And then her counterclaim, I think here's him talking

01:13:57.780 about after there, this is after the second sexual account encounter where she claimed she was

01:14:03.120 incredibly traumatized and beaten up, but he got his hands on this video, which you're going to see

01:14:08.300 watch. Uh, in August of 2021, Lindsay Hill's claims were heard in court. And during those legal

01:14:14.460 proceedings, critical information was deliberately and unlawfully concealed from me and my legal team.

01:14:20.360 Uh, information like this video, which was taken by Lindsay Hill herself the morning after she

01:14:25.440 claimed she was brutally attacked, emotionally traumatized and desperate to get away from me.

01:14:31.000 And now we have the metadata, so there can be no dispute. Uh, it was taken mere minutes before

01:14:35.280 she left my house on the morning of May 16th, 2021, without my knowledge or consent, of course.

01:14:40.840 Uh, in it, you can see her lying in bed next to me while I'm sleeping, smirking at the camera without

01:14:45.860 a care in the world or any marks on her face. I think it paints a pretty clear picture of what

01:14:50.900 actually happened the evening of May 15th and why the video was originally concealed from us.

01:14:57.180 Megan, I'm glad you brought the ball. Yeah, no, no, no. And we'll, and we'll put the split screen

01:15:01.940 of what her face looked like when she went for like medical services versus what we see in that video,

01:15:07.940 which was the morning after the alleged beating. Keep going.

01:15:11.400 Okay. So there's a couple of things. One, I still buy into, okay, maybe possibly theoretically

01:15:16.700 those bruises could have shown up later. That's her argument, but that's not my concern. My concern

01:15:22.280 is number one, that the look on her face is worth a thousand words. It's very difficult for any

01:15:28.760 reasonable person to believe that she was brutally beaten and raped by this guy with that video. But

01:15:34.660 what troubles me the most is that the attorneys held onto it. They didn't provide it in discovery.

01:15:41.180 And that to me is problematic. Another interesting fact though, Megan,

01:15:47.260 is usually in these types of situations where he said, she said, and they reached some sort of

01:15:53.940 settlement, even when there's no money exchange, there's almost always some sort of a confidentiality,

01:15:59.600 some sort of, and we won't, none of us are going to talk about this, but obviously she was in such

01:16:04.980 a weak position that she was not in the position to be able to insist on that. And therefore he's

01:16:10.400 able to tell his story in a way that we usually don't hear, even from people who are cleared

01:16:15.580 in a civil matter. You don't usually see them going out there telling their story the way he is.

01:16:21.000 Hmm. That's true. Um, by the way, my dog thunders in the studio with me sort of growling. I don't

01:16:26.060 know. She's having a dream. Um, here's Lindsay Hill who went on the blazes, um, uh, show with Alex

01:16:33.080 Stein and he asked her about some of these texts and, uh, about that video. It's two separate sound

01:16:39.320 bites. Uh, let's play 19. Well, but what the hell does that mean? Next victim? Yeah. And this is,

01:16:46.600 you know, exactly what Trevor wanted to do was random pick three or four texts and weave it into

01:16:51.240 a narrative where I just look horrible. Um, but so, you know, when I explained that and, you know,

01:16:56.540 my deposition and different things, um, I'm like you, I like to joke. I'm very sarcastic,

01:17:02.160 sometimes inappropriate. Anyone who knows me will know that. Um, and these are private,

01:17:06.240 you know, text messages with my friends and, uh, agreed victim is not the word there, but, um,

01:17:11.160 what I, you know, my, my past, I've been involved with, um, other baseball players. Uh, that was my

01:17:18.180 world at the time. And it was a funny way, you know, I had already dated baseball players and it

01:17:22.640 was a funny, sarcastic way to say, Oh, here's the next one, you know, that I'm going to try to get

01:17:28.280 attention from. Okay. And she's talking about that text exchange where she wrote to a friend next victim

01:17:34.880 star pitcher for the Dodgers before she even met Trevor Bauer. And then she responded, what should I

01:17:39.540 steal? Uh, she allegedly asked that of another friend in reference to visiting his house for

01:17:44.340 the first time. The answer, take his money. Then after the first time they met a text allegedly said

01:17:48.720 net worth is 51 mil response, bitch, you better secure the bag. Uh, and then Trevor asked in the

01:17:54.120 video, how would she do that? And then her, she texted to the friend, need daddy to choke me out,

01:18:00.060 need daddy to choke me out. And then writes being an absolute whore to try to get in on his 51 million.

01:18:06.240 I mean, that is just absolutely devastating. Like if that's actually what she was doing,

01:18:09.540 through this whole thing, it's absolutely disgusting. It's disgusting. She's obviously

01:18:13.660 a very troubled person, very troubled. She's talks about, she's an alcoholic. Go ahead, Mark.

01:18:18.500 Even if you believe her explanation of it, well, that's my sense of humor. Well, that's really dark

01:18:24.760 and troubling to a jury. So I am, I'm sure that her lawyers felt that those were so damaging in

01:18:33.320 conjunction with that video laying in the bed, you know, with him wearing that black

01:18:37.780 night thing over his head, which was weird that the whole thing doesn't go well, you know?

01:18:43.900 No, she, she, I don't know exactly what her problem is, but she's clearly got some mental

01:18:48.920 issues. There's no doubt. Well, you want to talk about mental issues, Megan? She just,

01:18:52.820 they showed us the split screen, right? Split screen is her in the bed uninjured. And then she's in the

01:18:58.560 hospital, totally injured. So how did she get those injuries? I'm assuming that it's all medical records.

01:19:04.240 She spoke to that. Here it is with, again, the blaze primetime with Alex Stein sought 20.

01:19:10.340 That video the next morning, you know, when I'm still trying to, I hadn't seen all everything that

01:19:14.680 had happened in my body. I really had no idea. And just full of emotion. I don't know. I'm not

01:19:20.780 a psychologist to know what happens after the body takes that kind of experience. But my cousin had

01:19:27.100 snapchatted me and he knew I was over there and he kind of had said, you know, Hey, how's it going?

01:19:31.440 And in my mind at that point, you know, that was probably like 20, 30 minutes before I left

01:19:36.020 Bauer's house. I, you know, was thinking like, there's no way I can tell anyone what happened.

01:19:41.040 First of all, it's so embarrassing because it ended up with me crying and shaking and it was just so

01:19:46.200 embarrassing. And so I record that to just send back to my cousin, like, Hey, everything, you know,

01:19:52.060 is fine.

01:19:52.620 I don't know. She don't buy that in that video. She's someone who gets easily embarrassed. I don't

01:20:01.780 see that. I don't get, she get those black eyes though. If he didn't do it, how does she look so

01:20:08.100 delayed? Arthur and the lip too. It took time to, to get there. You know,

01:20:13.380 can we see the split screen of the, of the injured face and the video face again? Um,

01:20:17.340 so yeah, you can see she's got the black marks underneath the eyes on the, on the right.

01:20:22.760 She doesn't in both stories. The injuries were inflicted on her prior to this photo. It looks

01:20:29.820 like even the lip, um, on screen, right. And the injured face has some damage, but on her morning of

01:20:36.960 face has no damage. And I don't, even the nose ring is on different nostril. I guess you can switch

01:20:42.760 that around. I don't know, but like the whole thing stinks, but she did have injuries. So yeah,

01:20:47.100 how'd she get them? Did she self-inflict, but yet she's admitting that they had rough sex and she

01:20:51.220 asked him to beat her up that he punched her. You know, his defense wasn't, I didn't punch her.

01:20:55.100 I didn't choke her out. His defense was she asked me to do it. Right. So it's like, I don't exactly

01:21:00.380 know, but I want to talk about the other accusers. Okay. Cause this is getting kind of ignored by

01:21:03.980 his defenders. And I think it's important. So there was an Arizona woman who in June, well,

01:21:10.780 it happened in 2020, but it just hit in June of 2023, accused him of raping her. The woman

01:21:16.620 claimed she got pregnant. Uh, she claimed he held a jagged steak knife to her throat. He denied it

01:21:21.520 and he countersued her alleging fraud and extortion and a fabricating her pregnancy.

01:21:25.960 They had one encounter. He said the condom broke during sex. Don't, don't take women home who you

01:21:31.880 don't know when you're worth a hundred million. Did I mention that? Um, he said after the encounter,

01:21:36.000 the woman claimed she was pregnant and demanded 1.6 million to terminate her pregnancy.

01:21:40.040 Hello. So this is where Mark Iglas takes out his dangling, dangling 20 and tries to grab it.

01:21:46.480 Money, grab money, grab. Okay. That's this woman. She wound up getting $8,700 from him for the expenses

01:21:52.820 related to her alleged pregnancy and its termination. And ultimately she filed an amended complaint

01:21:57.520 saying she decided not to terminate the pregnancy, but had a miscarriage in April of 2021. Who the

01:22:02.220 hell knows what happened with that one? I'm going to move that one off to the side. Let me get to

01:22:05.620 number two, Columbus, Ohio, April, 2022. This is per the Washington post. Just as MLB was suspending

01:22:12.320 Trevor Bauer, um, a woman came forward about an incident that allegedly took place in 2013.

01:22:18.040 She said, Bauer, this is post the other woman's allegations. I should notice that note that Hills

01:22:23.680 allegations. This woman alleges he choked her unconscious without her consent during sex.

01:22:29.120 She alleged that, um, she was having sex with him. And then months later, she again passed out

01:22:36.140 with his hands around her neck as their years long sexual relationship continued. The woman said

01:22:41.120 they agreed that he would stop choking her before she passed out, but he frequently ignored her

01:22:45.960 warnings. And then she said, he also slapped her around without her consent and forgive me,

01:22:50.940 but this is also alleged by Hill that the troubled woman we've been discussing, uh, alleges that he

01:22:56.500 penetrated her from behind without her consent. In fact, while she was unconscious, that is what this

01:23:03.100 Hill woman, uh, thunder be quiet. Also alleges one screenshot. So it shows a text message bearing

01:23:10.600 Bauer's name in which he allegedly wrote, I want to F you while you're completely unconscious.

01:23:15.820 All right. So, and then one more number three separate Ohio woman. This came out in August of

01:23:21.220 2021, Washington post and Ohio woman sought a protective order in June, 2020 after repeated threats

01:23:26.500 from Trevor Bauer, photographs independently obtained by the post show bruises on the woman's

01:23:31.380 face, blood in her eyes. Her attorney says were caused by Bauer punching and choking her during sex

01:23:36.060 without consent. They obtained copies of messages that Bauer allegedly sent the woman, which her lawyers

01:23:41.640 said prompted her to seek an order of protection. Um, he wrote quote, I don't think

01:23:45.820 like spending time in jail for killing someone. And that's what would happen if I saw you again.

01:23:50.220 Now we don't know the context of that. It could be, you're making up false claims about me. So I'd

01:23:53.680 really like to kill you. Not like I'm actually going to kill you. And these other women could

01:23:57.760 also be making false claims or they too could have asked to be punched and then saw an hour. We don't

01:24:02.900 know the thunder, get her out of here. Absolutely. Thank you. Um, but in any event, there's a,

01:24:08.620 there's quite a few women with similar allegations and at a minimum, it appears best case scenario for

01:24:15.660 him. He's a big fond of choking women out and punching them in the face in, in name of a sex act.

01:24:23.660 Well, you got to attack them one at a time. In other words, you know,

01:24:26.940 well, that's his philosophy. Oh, Oh, nice one. Yes. Okay. Mama Kelly over there. Well done. Well

01:24:36.460 done. Um, you know, you just have to address, I think you said one of them was in 2013. Now I

01:24:41.820 don't know how old Bauer is now, but you know, he must've been a very young person. Cause you know,

01:24:47.700 usually you're not a pitcher in baseball in the, into your forties. Um, so it, and I, you know,

01:24:53.880 I'm always suspicious of these accusations that come out after someone else made an accusation and

01:24:59.660 now they're a decade old, like, Oh really? Well, where have you been for a decade? Um,

01:25:04.700 you just have to look at the details, but the fact that they haven't gone anywhere with someone with

01:25:10.200 such a high net worth who a lot of these guys, Megan there, they'd rather just write a quick

01:25:14.940 check and get out of Dodge and fight these things. Bauer to his credit is seems to be fighting them

01:25:20.860 over and over again without giving it any money, but he's getting 32 now. So he would have been 22

01:25:26.560 then go ahead, Mark. Listen, he's getting killed in the court of public opinion. You know, you can

01:25:30.820 dismiss all of that, but you can dismiss each one of these, but collectively there's a lot of smoke

01:25:38.320 here. And the average person, not me believes that at a minimum, he liked it really weird.

01:25:44.680 And at a maximum, he went over the line because that's his thing.

01:25:49.120 But no DA is charging them. No, no DA or law enforcement is charging with going over the line.

01:25:54.960 And you know how quick they are to do that, Mark. If a woman walks into a police station

01:25:58.520 and says a man laid a hand on him in New York, there's a zero tolerance policy. It's like arrest

01:26:03.160 now and we'll deal with it later. That's never happened. And you know, when you're talking about

01:26:06.940 getting hurt from a dollars and cents point of view, he went from 104 million or 105 million

01:26:12.960 to $4 million a year. Now he pitches in Japan and he got the highest suspension of any major

01:26:20.340 league baseball player, including those who like were cheating, playing the game and got caught and

01:26:26.580 admitted cheating, playing the game. In my opinion, if you get caught cheating, playing the game that

01:26:31.800 you're being paid millions of dollars to play, that should be a more severe penalty than anything

01:26:37.520 you've done off campus and having nothing to do with your job.

01:26:41.560 Arthur, to your point.

01:26:42.160 Well, Mark, what do you make of it? Because some are saying he should sue MLB. He should sue MLB

01:26:45.680 for bouncing him out of there, given all the evidence he has in this case that it was unfair.

01:26:51.300 Although the MLB, my understanding is the MLB had multiple complaints from some of these women,

01:26:56.660 including Ms. Hill, when they decided we no longer want to do business with Trevor.

01:27:01.960 That'll go nowhere. The burden of proof in the major league baseball industry is as low as can be.

01:27:08.220 It's not proof beyond and to the exclusion of every reasonable doubt. So I want to address Arthur's

01:27:13.340 point. Yeah, prosecutors do bring a lot of these cases. But when Megan was reading the facts of the

01:27:18.380 case, you know, we've been doing this long enough, Arthur, you could just tell right away. Yeah,

01:27:22.480 that's not going to go anywhere. In other words, the first one I think she read, the woman continued

01:27:27.060 to have this physical relationship with him that also involved choking and bonding and all this type

01:27:34.100 of stuff. Jurors are not sympathetic to that. Even if it might have happened, it's so difficult to

01:27:39.320 prove that beyond a reasonable doubt. That's why a lot of these guys, maybe they did it, maybe they

01:27:45.080 didn't. But proof beyond a reasonable doubt is such a high burden and very hard to reach.

01:27:49.280 Hmm. I don't know. I I'm glad he had the text messages to show that she literally did ask for

01:27:56.780 these injuries weirdly. But I think you're playing a very dangerous game when you engage in this kind

01:28:01.900 of behavior with a damn stranger, especially. You really think so, Megan? Is that how you really

01:28:06.360 feel? I do. Yes. I round back to my correct last word. So in any event, I can't agree. I can't

01:28:14.840 disagree with MLB's decision to not stay in business with a guy. He's like a walking lawsuit

01:28:19.280 waiting to happen. But whatever, that's for him and them to figure out. Arthur and Mark,

01:28:23.440 stay with us because we're not done. We actually have a couple of other very juicy legal cases to

01:28:27.320 get into. So stand by.

01:28:32.900 Guys, I just want to ask you about this one quickly, because there's that judge in the Trump civil case.

01:28:37.620 His name is Arthur Angeron. I don't know if you saw this, but Arthur, since this is your court,

01:28:41.740 I mean, you're in this court all the time. Have you ever seen a guy enjoy the cameras more in a

01:28:45.340 courtroom? My God, the way he mugged for the camera. Look at him. He's like, oh, oh, I'm on

01:28:49.000 camera. Oh, let me take my glasses. I look better. I look better without my glasses. Look at me. Oh,

01:28:53.100 you're right. I'm the one who entered summary judgment against Trump. What'd you make of it?

01:28:56.420 It's it's so rare that this allowed. I mean, so rare. I have no recollection of a judge in this

01:29:04.800 jurisdiction allowing a live video, even though it was for a brief amount of time. They'll allow a camera in

01:29:10.500 in the very beginning just to take a picture of who's where. But it's the first time I've ever

01:29:15.780 seen a live video. And obviously him mugging for the camera is beyond ridiculous. But this guy has

01:29:20.980 his thumb on the scales. He I mean, he said it, you know, the Trump's a bad Trump's a bad guy. See

01:29:25.860 why they're going after him. And he really short circuited the cross examination of the accountants

01:29:32.940 yesterday by the by the Trump team. I mean, the accountant is the main person who created who was

01:29:39.360 involved in creating these documents and to short circuit that cross examination is for a judge to

01:29:45.980 do. I mean, I'm lecturing on Tuesday to the Judicial Institute here in New York. And that's one of my

01:29:50.240 biggest points is like, take your fingers off the scale. Let the lawyers try their case and just stay

01:29:56.440 out of it. And if you'd like to see your face on camera, you can come get my job. But you shouldn't

01:30:00.900 be a judge. Go ahead, Mark. And you've got millions of people listening to Trump's accusations

01:30:06.440 that you're not being fair. And this is a political witch hunt. You want to avoid everything

01:30:11.480 that could potentially give the image of impropriety. When you look like that, when the

01:30:17.460 cameras are around, it creates some discomfort. It does. OK, speaking of discomfort, Disney getting

01:30:25.300 sued by a woman with I don't mean to laugh because she got really hurt from the sound of it. She went

01:30:32.460 down the the water slide. That was great. My God. I mean, well, October 2019 Typhoon Lagoon

01:30:41.040 Water Park, part of Disney World in Florida. The woman was celebrating her 30th birthday. She went on

01:30:47.140 the humonga cowabunga water slide. And according to Disney, riders taking closed body slides down a 60

01:30:54.920 degree angle, 214 drop. It's five stories in the dark and spray their way to a surprise ending.

01:31:02.560 Well, it was a bigger surprise than she had been counting on. This woman, Emma, who claims that

01:31:10.000 even though they told her to cross her ankles, they didn't say that the future safety of her

01:31:14.200 vag was going to depend on it. And she was jostled into the air. She.

01:31:19.140 Well, the force of the water pushed loose garments into her anatomy is what she's alleging,

01:31:27.740 causing a wedgie, but not in the traditional spot we think of a wedgie going. And just as I was like

01:31:33.980 kind of giggling about her clothing being painfully forced between her legs, I mean, it was like,

01:31:38.700 what? What is she? Come on. Sounded like a bullshit. And she she had blood rush out of her. And she

01:31:46.580 went by ambulance to the hospital where she needed surgery, surgery from the water slide. I'm horrified.

01:31:55.280 So, Mark, I'm thinking, given the pockets of Disney, this actually is a pretty good lawsuit.

01:32:00.340 I don't know. I mean, I got two and a half strikes against her for many reasons, but she's not out.

01:32:06.700 I'd want to know more. I'd want to know, did she have any pre-existing injury that might have

01:32:11.900 caused her to bleed the way that she did? Well, she could have had her period.

01:32:16.580 Ooh, OK. Here we go. Here we go. What kind of show is this? What kind of show is this?

01:32:23.200 It's a show where the very famous host says vag. That's the kind of show. I didn't sign up for the

01:32:29.200 show. I didn't know. Dirty, girty. Right. But my point is that it seems like a bit of a money grab,

01:32:36.400 but I'd like to know where the injuries came from. If it's exclusively as a result of the ride,

01:32:41.880 what did she do to cause her injuries? Again, they tell you to close your legs.

01:32:46.280 And then here's the biggest question. How many millions of people went down the slide with

01:32:50.320 no injury? Are there any other reported cases? That's what I'd like to know.

01:32:56.300 All right. So here's what she's alleging, though, Arthur. She writes her lawyers claim she suffered

01:33:01.180 from severe and permanent bodily injury. That's a legal term. We all say that, including severe

01:33:05.960 vaginal lacerations, a full thickness laceration, causing plaintiff's bowel to protrude through her

01:33:13.560 abdominal wall and damage to her internal organs. Now, I don't know like that. That could be made

01:33:21.140 up. I mean, just in fairness to Disney, it is possible that that is just a lawyer grossly

01:33:26.080 overstating an alleged injury, but it's also possible it's true. So what do you what do you think?

01:33:30.480 Are you reading? I think you have to go back to what Mark just said is, yeah, I have to go back

01:33:36.200 to what Mark just said. And, you know, you stand in front of a jury and you say, listen,

01:33:40.240 we estimate that 8 million people have gone down this slide over the last X amount of years,

01:33:45.860 and no one has had any type of injury, anything close to this. We think that this person came to

01:33:52.040 the ride with a pre-existing weakness in that part of her body. And ladies and gentlemen,

01:33:57.380 she's told, and it's the sign right there says, cross your ankles. And she's admitted

01:34:02.800 she didn't cross her ankles. And the reason why we tell people to cross their ankles is so that the

01:34:06.820 water doesn't rush up all into your private parts, whether you're a man or a woman.

01:34:11.280 I mean, I'm sorry, but like, haven't we all had the water slide experience where it's like,

01:34:16.160 whoa, Nellie. I mean, everyone's had that men have it in a different way than women have it. But

01:34:20.980 it's like, you do know when you go down like the especially forceful water slides,

01:34:25.140 it can it can be unpleasant. This is why I don't do it. And I'm one of the many reasons.

01:34:29.400 I just feel like I don't you know, you expect something awful. You don't expect

01:34:37.660 protrusion of your bowel, which I admit is hard to believe. We'll see how it how it pans out,

01:34:44.060 though. My crack team has flagged that according to the Orlando Sentinel, Bush Gardens, separate

01:34:49.740 property, reported two vaginal injuries similar to McGinnis's alleged claims at its Adventure

01:34:56.220 Island water park in Tampa in 2003. Unclear if there were lawsuits, but both incidents happen

01:35:03.860 on water slides, which have since been shut down. Ladies, the water slide may not be for

01:35:11.040 us, depending on just how steep it is and how forceful it is. We went to the one down in the

01:35:16.900 Bahamas. What's the one at Atlantis? It was hell on Earth. It was horrible. It was it was

01:35:22.180 like it was like being Khalid Sheikh Mohammed. I felt like I was waterboarded. I couldn't

01:35:26.440 have hated it more. My children had exactly the opposite reaction. I'll leave it to the

01:35:30.660 viewers to decide. Guys, such a pleasure. I think we've solved all the world's problems

01:35:34.700 today. No. Thank you so much. I'll be happy now. All good. We'll make sure I don't bring

01:35:39.880 home any strangers from the bar to Marianne and just say, hey, we're going to have some

01:35:43.240 fun tonight. So I'll water. You guys found yourselves some nice ladies who you wooed the

01:35:49.160 old fashioned way. I was there for the Marianne business. Right. I mean, I watch that. You're

01:35:54.080 you. You act tough, but you're a softy at heart. You're a lover. You're a romantic. I'm

01:35:59.540 a romantic. Same. We're not chokers. Not chokers. Not in any way. Not professionally.

01:36:06.940 Not personally. Thank God for that. Great to see you guys. I want to tell you that tomorrow

01:36:11.820 our guest who could not appear yesterday because he wound up in jail is coming on. He's out of

01:36:17.480 the clink and he's coming on. Lawrence Fox will be here to talk about his arrest and firing

01:36:22.400 from GB news. First interview. Thanks for listening to the Megan Kelly show. No BS, no agenda and no fear.

The Megyn Kelly Show - October 05, 2023

Biden’s Border Wall, Ex-MLB Pitcher Trevor Bauer’s Lawsuit Drama, and SBF Trial Begins, with Former VP Mike Pence, Arthur Aidala, and Mark Eiglarsh ｜ Ep. 641

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