The Megyn Kelly Show - Bizarre Group Chat Details, Media Compares Trump to Nixon, and MK Media Launch, with Walter Kirn and Matt Taibbi

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00:00:31.280 Welcome to The Megyn Kelly Show, live on Sirius XM Channel 111 every weekday at New East.

00:00:42.860 Hey everyone, I'm Megyn Kelly. Welcome to The Megyn Kelly Show.

00:00:46.040 We have a lot to get to today, but before we do,

00:00:50.000 I have some good and exciting news that I want to share with you.

00:00:53.600 And it has to do with all of you getting a lot more content

00:00:57.000 from some of our and your favorite guests of The Megyn Kelly Show.

00:01:03.080 The show has been growing like crazy thanks to all of you.

00:01:06.680 We are deeply grateful.

00:01:08.640 And last month, as you may know, we added a new show to our podcast and YouTube feed.

00:01:13.540 It's called AM Update.

00:01:15.180 And the response has been super strong, far exceeded all of our hopes and expectations.

00:01:20.420 If you're not consuming it, by the way, you can get it on our podcast feed or on our YouTube feed.

00:01:24.800 And it's about a 15, 16-minute morning news update.

00:01:28.940 So you can kick off your day with what we think are the most important stories.

00:01:33.100 And today, we are announcing the launch of MK Media,

00:01:37.760 a podcast network of video and audio shows which we are going to produce and help promote.

00:01:43.580 And we are starting with three out of the gate, which will launch in April and May.

00:01:49.620 So you're not going to have to wait very long to consume them.

00:01:52.700 The first three are next up with Mark Halperin from the independent journalist and bestselling author Mark Halperin.

00:02:00.300 The Nerve with Maureen Callahan from our pal Maureen, who is also a Daily Mail cultural columnist and a bestselling author.

00:02:09.200 And spot on with Link Lauren from the great political commentator and influencer Link Lauren.

00:02:15.940 I'm so excited about these three.

00:02:18.240 Aren't these a great three to launch with?

00:02:20.680 They cover the gamut, right?

00:02:22.260 It's like Link has got such a following amongst young, sort of right-leaning people or independent-minded people who have just had it with the weird left.

00:02:32.240 I hear from so many young people who are like, I love Link.

00:02:35.360 He's got such a following.

00:02:37.740 Maureen, do I even need to say anything?

00:02:39.980 I mean, we all love her.

00:02:42.520 She first started coming on, and I loved reading Maureen, but I didn't know how she'd do in an interview, you know, when you have to do the spoken word.

00:02:50.580 And you could see right from the get-go, there was something special there.

00:02:54.240 And the more she came on, the better she got.

00:02:57.060 And now, of course, she's just an A-plus guest.

00:02:58.980 And whenever we have her on, we get the most positive comments from all of you.

00:03:03.800 So she's going to be amazing.

00:03:05.580 And I love the name of that show, The Nerve.

00:03:07.860 And Mark Halperin, I mean, can you name anybody you wanted to hear from more in the lead-up to the last election than Mark?

00:03:15.300 It's like when Mark would speak, you'd put down your pen and listen.

00:03:18.700 He was somebody who, you know, I always talk about how I'm doing my makeup or I'm cleaning my house or something while I'm listening to podcasts.

00:03:26.120 Mark Halperin is the kind of commentator where you just stop the other thing and you just listen, and sometimes you rewind it to hear it again.

00:03:33.320 He's extremely well-connected, very well-researched, and just a very, very stand-up guy when it comes to his political journalism.

00:03:42.680 I mean, you can just take it to the bank.

00:03:44.900 And so I'm thrilled that we're going to be getting into business with these three and helping promote their independent podcasts.

00:03:51.920 So thanks to all of you for helping make that possible for us to not just grow our show but to help grow other shows.

00:04:00.080 We're not done.

00:04:01.980 By the way, you're going to be able to find these shows on their – they'll have their own podcast feeds under those names,

00:04:06.840 and their own YouTube channels, and their own social media accounts, and we're going to help them build all of those.

00:04:13.140 But that's not all we're doing.

00:04:15.360 MK Media is going to continue to expand.

00:04:17.560 We're in talks with a bunch of folks, and we will have more announcements to come soon.

00:04:22.780 Some beyond just news and entertainment, by the way.

00:04:25.220 More on that as we launch these other programs.

00:04:27.060 Look, what I'm basically looking to do is to help promote more sane, reasonable, and ideally entertaining people who have unique perspectives and the courage to say the truth, right?

00:04:40.940 It's like I'm extremely grateful for the platform that we have and, you know, the audience that we have.

00:04:47.740 But I also think it's important to, you know, the only thing I can think is the terrible Barack Obama phrase of spread the wealth around.

00:04:56.800 But what I mean is just you want a lot of options, right?

00:05:00.920 You want to hear somebody, for example, in Maureen, in the cultural lane who devotes a whole show to that,

00:05:07.160 just ripping on all the big stories of the day that we don't always get to on a show like this one that's maybe a little harder news focused.

00:05:13.640 You know, we do a lot of culture, but it'll be great to have somebody singularly focused like that that we can help promote.

00:05:20.300 Mark, too, he's almost all hard news.

00:05:22.420 He doesn't really do a lot of the culture stuff.

00:05:24.280 Link, he does it all, but he loves culture.

00:05:27.200 He's a little younger and I think speaks to a different audience.

00:05:30.280 Anyway, it's just all coming together.

00:05:32.720 And I love being in a place now, thanks to you guys, to help those folks get their voice heard by as many people as humanly possible.

00:05:41.820 You know, look at the monopoly the left has had on the news and the conversation for all of the country's modern history.

00:05:51.520 It's only been the last couple of years that the right and the independent minded have developed this new lane.

00:05:57.800 So whatever I can do to help smart, honest, fact-based voices grow in that lane, I am committed to doing.

00:06:08.900 So I'm going to.

00:06:09.460 Okay, so thank you, stay tuned, and let's get to the news and the drama over the Signal group chat.

00:06:16.840 Now, you heard this story yesterday, right?

00:06:18.260 The long and the short of it is a group of Trump's top security officials, Pete Hegseth, Secretary of Defense, Mike Walls, National Security Advisor, and J.D. Vance, our vice president, and others were on a group text chain that I think involved 19 people in total.

00:06:33.900 And Mike Walls appears to have been the one, though not totally confirmed, who added, clearly accidentally, the Atlantic editor-in-chief, Jeffrey Goldberg.

00:06:46.040 It was just, of all people to add, just the worst person.

00:06:51.460 You know how many stories he's gotten wrong?

00:06:53.420 Let me put it to you this way.

00:06:55.260 He thinks that Mark Milley is a patriot and wrote a whole article calling him the patriot for his promise to betray the sitting president of the United States and to tell the Chinese if we ever decided to plan some attack on them.

00:07:09.360 That would be treason.

00:07:11.220 That would be punishable by death.

00:07:13.180 It's not something that makes you a patriot unless you're Jeffrey Goldberg, and that's how you see that.

00:07:18.920 And that's how you see all stories involving Trump or any Republican.

00:07:22.540 So the fact that he got added is a nightmare.

00:07:25.040 There are some people saying Mike Walls is a neocon.

00:07:27.780 That's why he had Jeffrey Goldberg.

00:07:29.480 Can I tell you, if you saw the people in my contacts, you wouldn't know what to think.

00:07:34.880 You'd be so confused because in Mike Walls' position as a guy who's been in politics forever or in Jeffrey Goldberg's, frankly, you have a lot of contacts.

00:07:47.380 You meet people.

00:07:48.480 They give you their contact.

00:07:50.480 You put it in there.

00:07:51.140 You never know when you might need them or you might need to yell at them in Mike Walls' case with Goldberg.

00:07:56.700 I don't think you can draw any conclusions from the fact that he had him in the contacts.

00:08:00.520 We don't know who he was trying to add, but clearly he made a mistake.

00:08:04.280 And now the left is treating this like we had a nuclear meltdown as a result of inappropriate group messaging on Signal.

00:08:16.200 And I'll just start by saying this.

00:08:17.560 If it were me and I were the administration, I think I would have just said, we made a mistake.

00:08:23.020 We'll look into how it happened and we'll let you know.

00:08:25.180 Thank God nothing bad came out of it.

00:08:27.360 And it was on an encrypted channel, thank goodness.

00:08:30.660 But sure, we can shore up our communications and will.

00:08:34.440 And that's it.

00:08:35.480 This is not Watergate.

00:08:38.340 This is not the Pentagon Papers.

00:08:40.200 People need to calm the F down.

00:08:42.700 The mission they were discussing when we fought back against the Houthis in Yemen, that was a huge success.

00:08:53.040 We took out a bunch of Houthi leadership.

00:08:55.600 We threatened Iran.

00:08:56.740 It went off without a hitch.

00:08:58.740 It's true.

00:08:59.760 It could have gone poorly if Mike Walls had CC'd like Iran.

00:09:06.440 I'm guessing like that's probably not a contact.

00:09:09.780 He just would have abbreviated on there.

00:09:11.580 But in any event, it didn't go badly.

00:09:14.900 It didn't get leaked to anybody other than, yes, a guy who hates Republicans, but doesn't necessarily hate America because he did nothing to undermine the mission.

00:09:25.420 So that's where it is.

00:09:26.860 It's really not that big a deal.

00:09:28.280 It's not great.

00:09:29.000 Don't get me wrong.

00:09:29.640 It's not great.

00:09:30.520 We don't have to treat this like everything about the report is wrong.

00:09:34.360 It was like, whatever.

00:09:35.840 He clearly got added erroneously.

00:09:38.160 Can we move on?

00:09:39.360 Like, it's bad.

00:09:40.320 You should fix it.

00:09:41.080 Tell us how you're going to fix the communications.

00:09:43.860 Off we go.

00:09:44.620 All right.

00:09:44.940 Joining me now to discuss that and all the stories in the news, the hosts of the America This Week podcast, author and novelist, Walter Kern,

00:09:52.420 and Racket News Editor, Matt Taibbi.

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00:10:58.140 Great to have you back, guys.

00:10:59.460 How are you doing?

00:11:00.160 Very good.

00:11:00.960 How are you doing, Megan?

00:11:02.080 Splendidly.

00:11:02.720 So what do you make of my take on SignalGate, Signal being the encrypted messaging app where they were having this conversation and clearly had the eventually, oh, shit, moment of realizing somebody had added Jeffrey Goldberg to the message chain.

00:11:22.180 Matt, I'll start with you.

00:11:22.780 I think I need to know a little bit more about how this story happened before I can accurately comment on it because the notion that of all people in the world,

00:11:33.420 the journalist who is probably most hostile to Donald Trump, was added to this chat chain about an attack on Yemen.

00:11:46.300 It's so incredibly improbable that the circumstances of it need to be understood fully before we can properly assess it, I think.

00:11:57.060 I mean, was it a genuine accident or what else happened here?

00:12:02.120 It's just something about it doesn't smell entirely kosher to me.

00:12:06.480 That's interesting.

00:12:07.640 There is some speculation online, just on X, you know, random folks posting.

00:12:12.080 Is there any chance he was intentionally added as a means of getting a discussion, which didn't make anybody look bad?

00:12:21.020 I think to the contrary, it made them all look very thoughtful and they're debating the pros and cons.

00:12:25.060 And, you know, is this something that we really want to take on?

00:12:27.600 That's what JD was saying.

00:12:28.880 Like, Europe has 40 percent of its commerce going through these channels.

00:12:33.320 We have three.

00:12:34.440 You know, should it really be our problem?

00:12:35.920 And then some exchange about, well, yeah, but we're the only ones who can do it.

00:12:39.960 So if we're going to push back at all, it should be us.

00:12:42.320 Whatever.

00:12:42.860 The actual chatter did not make them look bad.

00:12:45.000 It was simply the fact that it was happening on Telegram and they added Jeffrey Goldberg.

00:12:49.240 So, Walter, some of the speculation online was, did they intentionally add him so that they could possibly telegraph to the Europeans, you know, where we actually stand on this and that they may need to pick up any slack that happens from this point forward?

00:13:05.920 There's zero evidence to support any of that.

00:13:08.140 That's just I'm just picking up on what Matt suggested there.

00:13:10.900 Well, what I found curious is that if I were a somewhat hostile journalist and were added accidentally to a group chat that included the vice president, the secretary of defense and a national security advisor, I would lay low for a while and not blow my cover.

00:13:29.960 I would say, oh, wow, I just got an accidental pipeline into the very heart of the security state.

00:13:36.360 Maybe I'm not going to come out the first time I get a little bit of news.

00:13:40.340 So, it was interesting to me that Goldberg decided to sort of blow this once in a lifetime chance to surveil the inside of the White House.

00:13:51.820 He could add a four-year scoop.

00:13:54.240 Oh, exactly.

00:13:55.160 I'd have been writing a book.

00:13:56.560 I'd have been waiting for the World War III war plan, not the bombing of the Houthis, which isn't all that controversial.

00:14:04.180 No, that's a good point.

00:14:07.180 As you say, I think it made Vance in particular look good.

00:14:11.340 He can't be construed as a Trump toady after looking at this.

00:14:17.380 You know, he had some principled differences with Donald Trump.

00:14:21.320 He said this conflicts with our messaging about Ukraine, with our general anti-war stance.

00:14:27.180 Also, as you mentioned, it seems to favor the European interests over our own.

00:14:33.920 If we're going to play games with conspiracy theories and 4D chess, it's J.D. Vance, I think, who comes out looking best because it shows that he's both in the loop, independent, thoughtful, and nobody's fool.

00:14:48.680 At the same time, he plays with the team.

00:14:53.100 All I know is that I'm Jeffrey Goldberg sitting there going, wow, I had a bug in the White House and now I don't.

00:15:00.920 It's so true.

00:15:02.160 Somebody online said, you know, it should be a criminal act not to share the group text chains that Jeffrey Goldberg had internally.

00:15:12.740 You know, when realizing that this was a real text chain he was on with the national security team, like, holy shit.

00:15:20.600 And then, of course, even better would have been to see the reaction of the people.

00:15:24.120 I mean, who among us hasn't, like, cc'd somebody where you're like, oh, God, I didn't mean to do that.

00:15:30.580 But this is next level.

00:15:32.600 This one's not your average oh shit moment, Matt.

00:15:35.600 And, of course, the Democrats, who have completely fallen apart, who have zero support amongst their own party.

00:15:43.000 We talked about yesterday some of the numbers on Team Blue.

00:15:45.900 They're just they're in worse shape now than they've been in 50 years since an opportunity to have a good news cycle.

00:15:54.400 And they're right to capitalize.

00:15:56.360 I mean, if I were a Democrat looking to, like, change the narrative about what a mess my party is.

00:16:01.160 Sure, this will do for a couple of days.

00:16:02.780 I'll I'll ride this one.

00:16:04.160 And so what we saw this morning in front of Senate Intel was they called in the national security apparatus.

00:16:10.540 This is a pre-scheduled thing on global threats.

00:16:13.140 And they decided to make the most of this, including Senator Mark Warner of Virginia, who's a dem, versus Tulsi Gabbard and John Ratcliffe, head of the CIA.

00:16:23.440 Watch.

00:16:24.300 Director Gabbard, did you participate in a group chat with Secretary of Defense and other Trump senior officials discussing the Yemen war plans?

00:16:32.020 Senator, I don't want to get into it.

00:16:34.980 If it's not classified, share the text now.

00:16:38.160 So you were the John Ratcliffe on that chat.

00:16:40.320 I was.

00:16:40.840 Thank you.

00:16:41.180 Thank you.

00:16:41.940 Can I provide some context, Senator, to that?

00:16:45.320 Yes, but I've got a series of questions.

00:16:47.460 Well, but I think it's important because at the outset, you made a couple of comments about signal messaging using encrypted apps so that we're clear.

00:16:55.080 One of the first things that happened when I was confirmed as CIA director was signal was loaded onto my computer at the CIA, as it is for most CIA officers.

00:17:06.440 One of the things that I was briefed on very early, Senator, was by the CIA records management folks about the use of signal as a permissible work use.

00:17:17.500 Yes, it is.

00:17:18.620 That is a practice that preceded the current administration to the Biden administration.

00:17:23.780 I've got a series of questions.

00:17:25.340 I don't want to hear that.

00:17:27.800 If you're making the statement, the signal is a secure channel.

00:17:31.400 To be clear, in the signal message group, we're entirely permissible and lawful and did not include classified information.

00:17:40.240 There was no classified material that was shared in that.

00:17:43.380 So then if there was no classified material, share it with the committee.

00:17:47.260 This is strangely familiar, and I think my colleagues remember, when you couldn't answer the question, is Edward Snowden a traitor?

00:17:54.920 Man, I have serious doubts about your anyway.

00:18:01.480 It's just like when she wouldn't say that Edward Snowden is a traitor.

00:18:05.940 This is just like that, Matt.

00:18:07.160 So it's incredibly humorous to watch Mark Warner talking about breaches of security when his own Senate Select Committee on Intelligence suffered an extraordinary breach of security.

00:18:22.760 When the head of security for the committee was indicted for leaking material that led to the publication of the FISA warrant on Carter Page in 2017.

00:18:37.760 Remember the indictment involving James Wolfe?

00:18:40.160 Now, that was a story where the circumstances were kind of mysterious because it was a story that seemed like certain people would have wanted to get out.

00:18:49.740 But that really was classified information that was illegal to leak.

00:18:55.020 And it did end up in the press.

00:18:57.580 And it was a major scandal, both journalistically and in the history of Congress.

00:19:03.980 So for him to talk about this situation where they're not exchanging classified material, they're not sitting in a skiff, and they're simply discussing an operation that may be sensitive but not classified.

00:19:19.720 When he says, you know, I demand that you give us that material, there's no reason why Gabbard and Radcliffe can't just say no.

00:19:30.920 You know, we don't have to give you anything.

00:19:32.960 Right.

00:19:33.100 By the way, I think we're T minus like 72 hours before Jeffrey Goldberg releases it anyway with maybe a couple of things redacted.

00:19:40.700 But I don't think he's going to stay in this like, I'm above it all and I won't release it.

00:19:45.460 He just, I don't think he can help himself.

00:19:48.340 Well, they can subpoena him and get it anyway.

00:19:50.700 So what's the problem here?

00:19:52.820 Why does the Trump administration have to go first?

00:19:55.600 This feels like a giant advertisement for Signal to me.

00:19:58.580 We find out that the CIA, we find that the CIA uses it and trusts it.

00:20:04.120 Well, Peter Stroke, the head of counterintelligence over at the FBI, was, you know, talking to his mistress about how he was going to disrupt the Trump administration on regular text messaging apps.

00:20:17.560 At least they've scaled up a little here.

00:20:21.360 Yeah, good point.

00:20:22.280 Here's some more Democrat anger.

00:20:24.520 It's genuine anger, I'm sure.

00:20:26.780 Like the kind they showed when Lloyd Austin went AWOL for days without telling anybody where he was.

00:20:31.720 Oh, no, wait.

00:20:32.400 That never happened.

00:20:33.580 Here is Michael Bennett of Colorado sparring with, again, CIA Director Ratcliffe on who added Jeffrey Goldberg to the group.

00:20:44.480 Did Jeff Goldberg somehow, was it a, did he create a hoax that allowed him to become part of this signal thread?

00:20:54.640 Please answer the question.

00:20:56.280 You don't, don't, don't insult the intelligence of the American people.

00:21:01.200 Did he invite himself to the signal thread?

00:21:07.020 I don't know how he was invited, but clearly he was added.

00:21:11.500 Clearly it was.

00:21:13.020 Finish your sentence, please.

00:21:15.660 Clearly he was added to the signal group.

00:21:19.300 Your question is.

00:21:20.100 You don't know that the president's national security advisor invited him to join the signal thread?

00:21:29.560 Not everybody in America knows that.

00:21:31.280 Does the CIA director not know that?

00:21:33.600 I've seen conflicting reports about who added the reporter to the signal messaging group.

00:21:42.760 Walter, everybody in America knows exactly how this went down.

00:21:47.040 Who added Jeffrey Goldberg?

00:21:48.500 That's it.

00:21:49.220 Period.

00:21:49.840 Michael Bennett has spoken.

00:21:50.620 Except, except we three.

00:21:52.760 And we're pretty, pretty hip people who try to follow these things.

00:21:56.520 And yet we have no idea.

00:21:59.820 What's strange about it is I've never accidentally added anyone to a signal chat.

00:22:04.640 That hasn't happened to me.

00:22:06.320 I've never done a signal, but have you ever, never, have you never like misfired an email?

00:22:11.100 I've like, I've misfired an email to like, you think it's going to be mom.

00:22:16.100 Yeah.

00:22:16.300 But instead you send it to Maury.

00:22:17.940 I don't know.

00:22:18.360 Just something like that where like the, the, the, the auto complete takes over and you go

00:22:22.480 with it inadvertently.

00:22:23.280 Keep going.

00:22:24.260 Well, I would have thought that anyone of the other 19 might have had veto power over this

00:22:29.820 and noticed it.

00:22:30.800 That's what's strange.

00:22:31.920 But don't you think, Walter, when Mike Walls sets up your, your signal chat, you're like,

00:22:38.180 I trust, I don't, I don't need to go pour over all 19.

00:22:41.720 Like I trust Mike Walls.

00:22:43.960 I have better tradecraft than Mike Waltz.

00:22:46.360 I've learned from this story.

00:22:48.640 Why should I here in Montana with my strange group of friends, which are similar to yours,

00:22:53.560 I imagine Megan, you know, from all over the place, take more care with who I allow to

00:22:59.300 see the more sensitive parts of my communications.

00:23:02.780 The truth is we actually don't know.

00:23:05.200 And the more I think about this and the more I look at it, that the Democrats were ready

00:23:09.020 to pounce on it suggests, I don't know, that there might be more to it than we are hearing.

00:23:18.240 You guys are, you're going to the dark place.

00:23:21.020 Go ahead, Matt.

00:23:22.440 Yeah.

00:23:22.800 And again, not to speak about Michael Bennett specifically, but for members of the U.S.

00:23:28.900 Senate to talk about an inadvertent leak as if it were this dire, life-threatening matter

00:23:38.180 of national security when throughout the entire first presidency of Donald Trump, there were

00:23:43.800 epidemic, illegal leaks of classified intelligence from everything involving, you know, the signals

00:23:50.580 intelligence about Michael Flynn talking to the Russian ambassador to the alleged contact

00:23:58.280 between Donald Trump and members of Russian intelligence to the, you know, figures connected

00:24:06.480 to Trump or known and suspected Russian agents to the Alexander Downer stuff.

00:24:12.660 I mean, I did a story about this once and made a list and I had like 14 or 15 different

00:24:17.920 illegal leaks that came out.

00:24:19.860 All reporters knew what was going on during that time.

00:24:22.780 There were tons, tons and tons of material that were, that were being discussed in skiffs

00:24:26.840 and what would happen would be like some kind of aid from Congress would call you and would

00:24:34.040 essentially confirm the details of a classified story and then would put you on the phone with

00:24:40.460 somebody else who would be the second person to confirm the story.

00:24:43.980 This was going on constantly.

00:24:45.280 It drove most of the major Russiagate stories during the Trump period.

00:24:48.760 Isn't that now Natasha Bertrand made her name?

00:24:52.180 Right.

00:24:52.740 Yeah.

00:24:52.960 I mean, this is what journalism was for years and years and years and politics for that matter.

00:25:00.500 Right.

00:25:00.940 And none of that stuff was ever investigated or punished, even though it went on in the

00:25:06.240 open.

00:25:06.520 So I'm a little bit amazed that this not, not illegal situation is being investigated so vehemently.

00:25:15.740 And let's remember one more.

00:25:16.900 What did they do?

00:25:17.720 They discussed war plans, which went off without a hitch while inadvertently ceasing a reporter.

00:25:24.260 No one's claiming this is a good thing.

00:25:26.240 However, it's like, can the same people who could barely muster any outrage?

00:25:31.420 I mean, truly, not barely, who really, in many cases, didn't muster outrage at all for the

00:25:39.000 disastrous Afghanistan withdrawal for Abbey Gate, for, you know, actual military debacles

00:25:45.440 that have happened in recent the recent past that they said nothing like they weren't outraged.

00:25:51.400 But now they want us to believe that they're really horrified that one reporter got a heads

00:25:56.360 up on an action against the Houthis.

00:25:58.660 I don't buy it, Walter.

00:26:00.740 One thing that's interesting is that this is an actual war plan that everyone agreed with,

00:26:05.740 except maybe J.D.

00:26:06.880 Vance.

00:26:07.220 I mean, Jeffrey Goldberg, it's not like they put Alex Jones on the chat.

00:26:11.140 Jeffrey Goldberg, I'm sure, sure agrees with.

00:26:14.600 Yeah, and that would have been interesting.

00:26:17.900 But bombing the Houthis is not something that I think Jeffrey Goldberg disagrees with.

00:26:22.280 I don't even think that the Senate committee disagrees with it.

00:26:25.720 It's interesting that this is a policy that really there was unanimity on, except in the

00:26:31.120 case of Vance.

00:26:32.620 And when this first broke, it was an anti-Vance story.

00:26:36.240 That was how it was being spun.

00:26:37.740 You know, Vance and Trump are at odds.

00:26:39.540 That didn't survive the first news cycle, but it was how they first headlined this thing.

00:26:47.240 And meanwhile, all Vance said was, I'm not sure the president is aware of how inconsistent

00:26:51.480 this move is with his stated goals, you know, which is make the Europeans start paying their

00:26:56.520 fair share.

00:26:57.340 He wasn't saying the president is wrong to do this.

00:26:59.780 He's saying, is he aware of, for example, the 40 percent that Europe uses these channels

00:27:05.320 versus the 3 percent that we do?

00:27:06.580 He wasn't like, Trump's an idiot.

00:27:08.500 Trump's wrong.

00:27:09.260 He was like, I don't know that the president knows this stuff.

00:27:11.660 They're having lunch today, pre-scheduled, but Vance and Trump.

00:27:15.500 But the White House is making clear there's absolutely no daylight between these two.

00:27:18.720 And I will say this.

00:27:19.860 I'd love to talk to you guys about the messaging now, because my own take on it is Trump, as

00:27:25.980 usual, is hitting just the right tone in hand.

00:27:29.680 Like he's like, Wall's a good guy.

00:27:32.600 Made a mistake.

00:27:33.700 He'll learn.

00:27:34.480 You know, like it's fine.

00:27:35.620 He's he seems to totally have Mike Wall's back.

00:27:38.060 Um, that was said directly to a couple of reporters this morning.

00:27:42.520 Uh, Peter Doocy was one of them.

00:27:44.080 And who was the other one, Steve, who got it?

00:27:47.840 It was an NBC reporter.

00:27:49.120 Oh, Garrett.

00:27:50.220 Hey, yeah.

00:27:50.720 And in the gaggle.

00:27:51.940 Um, do we have that on cam Trump's tone?

00:27:54.220 We do, I think.

00:27:55.260 Right.

00:27:56.180 No, we don't have that.

00:27:57.140 Oh, because it wasn't on cam.

00:27:58.300 But yesterday, uh, he came out and he's like, I'm just learning about this for the first

00:28:02.180 time today.

00:28:02.760 I think he's nailed it where he's like, yeah, you know, it's a mistake.

00:28:05.620 The operation went off perfectly.

00:28:07.160 And Mike Walls is a good guy.

00:28:09.000 I would say, I think Pete Hegseth, who I really care about, but I think he's a little

00:28:14.060 too defensive.

00:28:14.660 He's probably feeling a little like, whoa.

00:28:17.020 Um, he's like, they're not war plans.

00:28:19.080 I didn't text war plans.

00:28:21.300 This it's coming down to like a debate of over semantics.

00:28:25.100 Do we, do we care?

00:28:26.980 Like I personally, I don't really care if he texted him like a blueprint with like, and

00:28:32.580 then the F-16 is going to come in here.

00:28:34.180 And then if they do this, we'll do that.

00:28:35.580 I mean, imagine that's what an actual war plan looks like, but I have no idea.

00:28:38.980 Or if it's just, we're going to overwhelm them with the following air power.

00:28:43.480 We've also got an aircraft carrier in there.

00:28:44.980 You know, like the general things that you would be telling the Tulses of the world and

00:28:48.960 the JDs of the world to generally let them know how large or small this thing is going

00:28:54.240 to be.

00:28:54.540 So what do you make of the, the, the tone and the tenor of the messaging from those who

00:28:59.620 are on defense today?

00:29:01.720 I think the administration comes out looking not so bad.

00:29:06.060 I mean, the, the, the security leak is obviously, um, not great.

00:29:11.720 I mean, and, and it's going to invite criticisms that these people are inexperienced.

00:29:16.040 I don't know what they're doing, right?

00:29:17.120 They're already saying that in droves, but as to the actual discussions, it's not like

00:29:22.440 you had a bunch of people saying, wait, where's Yemen again?

00:29:25.280 Is that next to Panama?

00:29:26.480 I mean, they, they, they seem to know what they were doing.

00:29:29.660 And, and, and, and as to remember, Gary Johnson, what is Aleppo?

00:29:34.760 What is an MSNBC running for president?

00:29:39.580 That would be that.

00:29:40.580 Or, or, or what does Israel want us to do?

00:29:43.440 Can somebody call them up?

00:29:44.900 Right, right, right.

00:29:46.680 We didn't see evidence of that.

00:29:48.260 See, I think Trump's management style is brilliant.

00:29:51.840 Well, yeah, exactly.

00:29:53.240 Yeah.

00:29:53.460 Can somebody call Putin and find out whether he's behind this, uh, uh, one time I almost

00:29:59.140 burnt down a gas station I worked in.

00:30:01.120 It created smoke and a terrible smell.

00:30:03.620 I cleaned it up as best that I could.

00:30:05.420 The next day the, uh, boss came in and instead of punishing me, he looked around, sniffed the

00:30:11.220 air and said, Hmm, I feel like something went on here to carry on.

00:30:14.720 It was the greatest act of discipline I've ever received because to withhold punishment

00:30:19.960 sometimes is to show true dominance.

00:30:23.860 And I think that's what Trump has done here.

00:30:25.780 The ability to give grace in this situation is also in its shadow form, the ability to

00:30:32.640 get rid of you.

00:30:33.540 And, uh, I think everybody is going to shape up from now on.

00:30:37.700 Also, I have to say that just, just, just quickly, I think it makes Vance look good.

00:30:42.700 Uh, it shows that he's willing to stand up for what he thinks and give his opinion.

00:30:48.340 And that's what we want a vice president to do when, uh, if there is any disagreement

00:30:52.940 or if he is challenging the idea, isn't that what we want from these people to discuss

00:30:59.800 it?

00:31:00.080 I I'm not really sure I understand what the controversy is apart from the security

00:31:03.560 leak.

00:31:04.420 If the Democrats could design, if the Democrats could design a security leak, it would be

00:31:09.480 to Jeffrey Goldberg.

00:31:10.640 Why are they acting like they're unhappy with this thing?

00:31:14.120 I'm surprised they're not passing the law that they don't, yeah, yeah, it's, it's, it's

00:31:18.920 a hundred percent.

00:31:19.640 I will say this, Doug Brunt, my husband, um, was not that long ago pulled over by a cop

00:31:26.960 on his way home from dropping the kids off at school.

00:31:30.280 And, uh, the cop said, do you know what you did?

00:31:32.900 And Doug said, yep, uh, I did a little bit of a rolling stop at that stop sign.

00:31:38.800 The cop was like, thank you.

00:31:40.840 Thank you for admitting it and let him go to your point, Walter.

00:31:44.300 I pardon you.

00:31:45.120 He was showed benevolence and it was the ultimate power move in Doug's defense.

00:31:49.580 It's a very safe intersection.

00:31:50.920 He just, most people come to a rolling stop, but Doug Brunt doesn't anymore because now he,

00:31:54.620 you only get one pass out of that problem for free.

00:31:57.620 In any event, this will, I think, be blown over in probably another day or two at the

00:32:02.980 most.

00:32:03.460 It is interesting though, that they are already using signal.

00:32:07.560 You heard Ratcliffe saying that in his testimony that we got to the CIA and found out that they're

00:32:13.280 using a signal, uh, all over these government devices.

00:32:16.600 It was used by the Biden administration.

00:32:19.140 We've confirmed that too.

00:32:20.520 Um, they said, oh, but you know, rarely, well, I don't know whether that's true or not.

00:32:24.300 Right.

00:32:24.660 It's like, maybe they didn't make the stupid mistake of copying in a reporter from Fox news,

00:32:29.320 but look, if this is something that they don't want to have happen, it should be stricken from

00:32:34.360 all administrations, not just the Republican ones.

00:32:37.300 All right, let's keep going.

00:32:38.180 Cause there's a lot, a lot to get through today.

00:32:40.720 The matter of whether Trump was allowed to deport all these alleged trend to Aragua gang members

00:32:47.840 on, uh, three flights, only two of which are at issue.

00:32:51.800 Here's, I can understand one flight's not at issue.

00:32:54.660 Um, two flights are at issue because the people on board were all being deported, at least

00:33:06.160 in part due to Trump's invocation of that act and his powers under it, which say, if you're

00:33:12.620 at war or you're suffering an invasion or some sort of incursion, the president can declare

00:33:17.460 that, well, Congress has to declare war, but the president can declare the other two and

00:33:21.640 then classify people as, um, parts of it, uh, you know, sort of enemy actors, and then

00:33:27.060 they can be deported without due process.

00:33:29.240 That's what's so appealing to the Trump administration about the alien enemies act.

00:33:34.280 You can boot them really kind of no questions asked, get out.

00:33:38.480 I've actually just been looking into this.

00:33:39.800 Maybe immigration lawyers have this on the, at the ready, but here's the story under the,

00:33:45.040 um, uh, okay.

00:33:47.820 Under the regular immigration law where we have expedited deportation, expedited removal,

00:33:54.580 people, you can kick somebody out.

00:33:56.580 If you catch them at the border, that was true for a long time under Trump or under Obama

00:34:00.580 under Biden, these agents who, who catch somebody sneaking across the border, they don't have

00:34:05.020 to like, let them have a whole hearing and just get out.

00:34:07.900 I caught you go back home, kick them out.

00:34:10.380 They were, they're entitled to nothing, no due process, nothing.

00:34:13.120 And it's under this expedited removal power.

00:34:15.500 And it usually applies to about a hundred, a hundred miles around the Southern border.

00:34:20.340 Well, Trump, as he did in Trump 1.0 has expanded it by executive order.

00:34:24.580 To reach pretty much all of the United States to where our border agents like Tom Homan,

00:34:29.860 if they find you and they, I don't know what the standard is probable cause most likely to

00:34:35.420 believe that you're a Venezuelan gang member can remove you.

00:34:38.220 No questions asked the downside of using just that expedited removal power, which is being

00:34:43.900 challenged legally is that if the person says, I'm seeking asylum, I'm seeking asylum.

00:34:49.820 You have to give them the asylum hearing.

00:34:51.700 It slows the whole thing down.

00:34:53.280 These illegals take advantage of that.

00:34:55.160 They're not really seeking asylum.

00:34:56.580 They came through four different other countries where they could have gotten asylum.

00:34:59.560 They just want to be here.

00:35:01.000 Anyway, that's why Trump decided to invoke this alien enemies act, which does not allow

00:35:07.500 the asylum escape hatch.

00:35:10.340 And what's happening right now in courts is there's a debate about whether these people

00:35:15.320 deported by Trump under their alien enemies act are entitled to any level of due process

00:35:22.220 before we declare them Venezuelan gang members.

00:35:27.420 No one's talking about striking down the alien enemies act, which has already been upheld by

00:35:32.140 the U.S. Supreme Court.

00:35:33.000 And the Supreme Court has held there's no right to judicial review of most of the president's

00:35:39.120 decisions under that act.

00:35:40.840 But what's being discussed and argued both at the district court level with this Judge

00:35:44.680 Bosberg and yesterday at the Court of Appeals for the D.C.

00:35:47.620 Circuit, a three-judge panel, one judge, an Obama appointee, one a George H.W. Bush appointee,

00:35:52.820 and one a Trump appointee, is do these people get any sort of due process before we label

00:36:00.180 them Venezuelan gang members and then put them on these planes?

00:36:04.300 And if they do get some, what does it look like?

00:36:07.560 Do they just file what's known as a habeas petition where they get to say, whoa, whoa,

00:36:11.520 I'm not even from Venezuela?

00:36:13.300 And if so, shouldn't that have been filed in where they were being held, which is down in

00:36:17.060 Texas, as opposed to in Washington, D.C., where almost all the district court judges are

00:36:22.580 lefties, and clearly the ACLU, which commenced this action, was looking for a leftist judge,

00:36:27.180 and they got one.

00:36:28.100 Yes, Bosberg was originally appointed to the bench years ago for a D.C. court judge by a

00:36:34.040 Republican Bush, George W., but there's no question the guy's gone left.

00:36:39.240 What happened to Justice Souter happened to Bosberg.

00:36:43.360 He may have originally been liked by a Republican judge, but there's a reason it was Barack Obama

00:36:48.020 who elevated him to the federal district court judge.

00:36:50.040 You just take a look at his rulings, take a look at his wife, take a look at who runs

00:36:53.440 an abortion clinic, his daughter, who appears to work for a group that helps illegals and

00:37:00.400 gang members who are in this country illegally.

00:37:02.300 Okay, so anyway, he sided, not surprising, with the ACLU, and now it's up on appeal to the

00:37:07.300 D.C. Circuit Court of Appeals, and they hashed it out yesterday about whether Trump has obligations

00:37:12.140 to these people before he puts them on these planes.

00:37:14.800 Anyway, that's where it stands now.

00:37:16.000 The D.C.

00:37:16.340 Circuit will make its ruling soon.

00:37:17.540 And your take on all of this, because my first conclusion on it is politically, this

00:37:24.920 is a no-lose situation for Donald Trump.

00:37:30.100 Walter?

00:37:30.900 I agree.

00:37:32.700 First of all, who wants to be in charge of deciding that this Trenda Agua member should

00:37:38.480 be allowed to stay and then answering for it when he kills somebody?

00:37:42.720 Is this a power that they really want, or is it just a way to frustrate Trump?

00:37:49.280 Because it's a power that I would not take on myself.

00:37:52.540 It's pretty risky.

00:37:53.920 Number two, alien combatants.

00:37:56.600 Well, we know they're aliens.

00:37:57.960 Are they combatants?

00:37:59.220 It is true that we live in a period of irregular warfare.

00:38:02.700 We have drug cartels that are obviously incredibly powerful and well-funded in the United States,

00:38:09.920 which originate outside the country.

00:38:12.800 It's their contention that somehow the Venezuelan government had something to do with infiltrating

00:38:18.160 these characters into the U.S.

00:38:22.100 That would qualify, I think, in the 21st century as a combatant.

00:38:27.040 We take people who aren't in uniform and we smuggle them into other countries, hoping that

00:38:31.500 they'll do things for us.

00:38:32.880 They may claim that they're seeking asylum or not.

00:38:36.520 So, so far, Trump has taken this all on himself.

00:38:39.200 And now this judge is saying, well, we want to, I want to be responsible for it.

00:38:44.180 But does he really do that?

00:38:45.680 Is there a judiciary that really wants to sometimes allow these people to stay such that they commit

00:38:53.840 further crimes?

00:38:55.040 So in that sense, you're right.

00:38:56.200 It is a political win-win.

00:38:58.720 Be careful what you wish for in terms of this judge and whoever he might represent.

00:39:05.420 It could be a hand grenade.

00:39:08.280 You know, to your point, Walter Jose Ibera, who is the guy who killed Lakin Riley, he was

00:39:13.740 let loose back out on the community in New York after committing two other crimes,

00:39:18.820 flown on the taxpayer's dime down to Georgia.

00:39:22.080 This is a Venezuelan gang member of Tren de Aragua, and that's where he killed Lakin Riley,

00:39:29.440 who's, you know, the face and name of the very first bill that Trump signed into law,

00:39:34.440 cracking down on illegals.

00:39:36.080 Imagine if you're the judge, you know, if another Jose Ibera is on one of those two planes that

00:39:43.700 he literally tried to call back into U.S. airspace after they'd already left.

00:39:47.940 And now he's very angry that they didn't turn the planes around.

00:39:50.420 Imagine that, you know, you're responsible for bringing one of these guys back and another

00:39:55.560 22-year-old gets killed.

00:39:57.120 That's why I say politically, Matt, whatever happens with the D.C.

00:40:00.060 Circuit, this is well worth the fight in many ways for Trump.

00:40:05.160 Well, I'd push back a little bit on that.

00:40:09.360 You know, I think maybe the specific case, that's true.

00:40:12.680 But in a larger sense, I think the Democrats so completely destroyed their reputation as

00:40:20.140 defenders of civil liberties in the last 10 to 15 years.

00:40:25.460 We're talking, we're asking right now whether or not these Venezuelan, you know, alleged

00:40:31.480 Venezuelan gang members have due process rights.

00:40:34.420 And remember, Barack Obama assassinated an American citizen, Anwar al-Awlaki, without any due process

00:40:43.340 based on a memo they essentially wrote to themselves saying that the due process didn't have to

00:40:48.520 involve the defendant.

00:40:51.000 And, you know, going on.

00:40:53.620 That would be the lowest level of due process, one gets.

00:40:56.280 That would be the very lowest.

00:40:57.360 But it's a process.

00:40:59.240 It just doesn't involve you.

00:41:00.460 Right.

00:41:00.760 So that's kind of sad.

00:41:02.280 But Matt, Matt, this guy, this this Boesburg was head of the FISA courts, if I understand

00:41:08.600 correctly, which is a form of due process that the defendants don't even know is going on.

00:41:13.780 Yes, exactly.

00:41:14.780 That's that's the Jesus, however.

00:41:17.740 Yeah.

00:41:18.880 But, you know, but then from there, you know, they want to they they did so much in the area

00:41:24.340 of of undercutting their traditional defense of, say, the First Amendment.

00:41:28.940 Right.

00:41:30.220 And yeah, and the Sixth Amendment, they handed those issues to Donald Trump.

00:41:35.740 And, you know, J.D.

00:41:37.380 Vance said it was the biggest difference between the Trump administration and Kamala Harris

00:41:43.440 was their attitude towards, for instance, free speech.

00:41:46.600 Now, this isn't a speech issue, but it is kind of a civil liberties issue.

00:41:51.920 It doesn't pertain to an American citizen.

00:41:54.880 But we've seen in recent years how a lot of these sort of civil liberties problems start

00:42:00.800 on the periphery and work toward the middle.

00:42:03.720 And we end up talking about, you know, the rights of Americans being violated.

00:42:09.380 And so I do worry about that a little bit.

00:42:12.220 I do think, you know, Trump especially has to be careful to preserve the high ground on

00:42:19.480 civil liberties issues just because there's definitely some screening going on, because

00:42:24.440 first of all, there's a way Tom Homan found these people.

00:42:26.820 You know, they didn't just like there's a reason Walter, Matt and Megan were not targeted

00:42:30.960 by Tom Homan.

00:42:32.380 He is doing his homework to figure out who is here, who's here illegally.

00:42:36.040 And they represented to the court.

00:42:38.600 And forgive me, I don't know whether it's all or most of those who are on these planes

00:42:43.440 had already had hearings.

00:42:45.360 They'd already had hearings determining that they needed to be deported.

00:42:49.160 So it's either all or most of these folks already had way more due process than they

00:42:55.280 would be entitled to had they been caught, you know, at the border pursuant to expedited

00:43:00.340 removal under any president.

00:43:02.660 So, you know, there's that.

00:43:04.740 And but here's the thing that Americans can't get past.

00:43:08.100 Tom Homan put it best.

00:43:09.680 And I think this is what we're all wrestling with.

00:43:11.680 Joe Biden opened the border and millions of very bad hombres crossed the southern border

00:43:19.420 are in the United States right now and will kill, rape and hurt our children, ourselves,

00:43:26.880 our neighbors.

00:43:27.900 And we don't care.

00:43:29.460 I mean, I'm really at the point like, get out, get out.

00:43:32.440 I don't really give a shit about your due process.

00:43:34.340 What due process did the rest of us have?

00:43:35.820 Or as Tom Homan put it here in 27, listen.

00:43:40.620 What we've heard from lawyers representing some of these people is that they deny that

00:43:45.600 they're members of this of this gang or either, you know, Trendy de Aragua or MS-13.

00:43:52.120 Do they get a chance to prove that before you take them out of the country and put them in

00:43:56.980 to a notorious prison in a country that they're not even from?

00:44:01.580 I mean, do they have any due process at all?

00:44:03.460 Look, due process.

00:44:07.820 What was Lake and Riley's due process?

00:44:11.600 What was Lake and Riley's due process?

00:44:13.620 That's very powerful, Matt.

00:44:15.980 No, I get it.

00:44:17.840 Absolutely.

00:44:18.620 And I get that people are frustrated.

00:44:20.920 It's just something to keep an eye on.

00:44:22.880 And I remember, you know, the invocation of the Alien Enemies Act, which is, you know,

00:44:27.980 not the most storied act in our history.

00:44:31.420 You know, there was frustration among conservatives when the Democrats started pulling out laws like

00:44:36.860 the Logan Act to go after Donald Trump.

00:44:40.000 Sometimes when you see presidents using ancient or exotic laws to execute policies in situations,

00:44:49.080 you know, it can be a bit of a red flag.

00:44:50.820 That's all.

00:44:51.260 I think that's as far as I just think it's a sign of our desperation.

00:44:54.660 You know, it's our desperation as a country to solve this problem that was not of Trump's

00:44:59.000 creation.

00:44:59.660 He he's been that's this thing he ran on from the moment he came down the escalator, Walter,

00:45:03.780 like the immigrants, Mexico, they're not sending their best.

00:45:07.600 And he's trying to use an extraordinary law that is on the books and has been upheld by the

00:45:13.500 U.S. Supreme Court to help him in what I believe Trump genuinely believes is an invasion.

00:45:18.200 I believe Trump has a sincere belief in that I went back and forth with about about Andy

00:45:24.420 McCarthy's legal position.

00:45:25.860 And I love Andy, really disagree with him.

00:45:27.880 But I do hear last week when the National Review guys were on about how look, this is

00:45:33.860 this is a law.

00:45:35.040 It is on the books.

00:45:35.660 It's been adjudicated.

00:45:36.720 And the court has said there's no judicial review of it.

00:45:39.320 If a president makes a mistake, that's too bad.

00:45:42.240 There are certain things that are not for the courts to second guess the U.S.

00:45:45.760 president on.

00:45:46.480 And Andy was making the point on his own podcast this week.

00:45:48.480 Well, we didn't this.

00:45:50.380 He still had to provide due process.

00:45:52.060 George W. Bush in the war on terror when we were dealing with enemy combatants.

00:45:56.040 Well, no one invoked the Alien Enemies Act.

00:45:59.520 Nobody was citing this.

00:46:00.940 Like, I'm sorry, George W. didn't think of it.

00:46:03.040 And Trump did.

00:46:04.260 But we're in a whole new world now.

00:46:05.700 Go ahead, Walter.

00:46:07.380 Theodore Roosevelt, I mean, excuse me, Franklin Roosevelt imprisoned many, many thousands of

00:46:13.140 Japanese Americans merely on the basis of being of Japanese heritage.

00:46:17.320 They put them in concentration camps in places like Wyoming.

00:46:21.060 I don't know if that was under the authority of this Alien Combatants Act.

00:46:24.820 But, you know, when people perceive themselves to be at war in some fashion, things change.

00:46:30.300 Tom Homans is American's bouncer.

00:46:32.240 OK, he has a very common sense approach that I think appeals to the electorate.

00:46:37.480 There are bad guys.

00:46:38.540 My job as a big, tough dude is to get them the hell out of here so that you guys can enjoy

00:46:44.400 yourselves and be safe.

00:46:46.860 So far, that's an understanding, a political understanding with the American people that

00:46:51.420 the American people seem fine with and, in fact, supported in the election of Trump.

00:46:57.180 That the judiciary is volunteering to get in the middle of this may not be the smartest

00:47:01.620 thing it's ever done, because they're not only bringing scrutiny on themselves politically and

00:47:07.020 on, you know, their families and their various potential conflicts of interest, they're starting

00:47:12.660 to create a debate in America about whether the judiciary is should have the powers that

00:47:19.860 it does.

00:47:20.820 Many of those powers are actually backed by Congress, it turns out, and in a practical

00:47:26.380 way, and they're going to become unpopular with their congressional sponsors very soon.

00:47:32.440 It's a it's a very good point, because, look, we are on really thin ice if ultimately Judge

00:47:40.940 Bosberg, because this will eventually go back down to him, does issue some attempted mandate

00:47:47.760 that those people be pulled out of that El Salvadorian prison and returned to America.

00:47:54.160 There is no way the Trump administration is going to do that, and I think at some level,

00:48:00.220 while Judge Bosberg may not be fully thinking of this yet, Matt, the Supreme Court will be,

00:48:05.060 because Justice Roberts, Chief Justice Roberts, knows better than anybody, there's no police

00:48:10.480 power behind the courts.

00:48:12.680 They we we abide by their rulings out of a sense of duty, neighborliness, order, nationality,

00:48:21.660 patriotism and acceptance of a system where there is a separation of powers.

00:48:26.040 But if there's too egregious an overreach and I don't support flouting the Supreme Court mandates

00:48:32.420 in their laws for the record, but I'm just saying Justice Chief Justice Roberts knows better than

00:48:37.360 anybody that if they issue an order as specific and as extraordinary as that to the sitting

00:48:43.760 commander in chief, it could destroy the court's power in one ruling, it could completely destroy

00:48:51.900 the Supreme Court.

00:48:54.520 Yeah, I mean, possession is nine tenths of the law, right?

00:48:57.080 And I mean, it reminds me of an old story about Joseph Stalin, who apparently he was criticized

00:49:04.240 by the Pope for something. And he essentially said, well, screw the Pope, how many divisions does he

00:49:10.140 have? And that comes into play here that came into play with there was a famous case involving

00:49:16.940 Abraham Lincoln in the beginning of the Civil War, where it also came into play, you know, the courts in

00:49:22.840 these kinds of showdowns tend not to have the upper hand and that might play out that way.

00:49:29.100 And they know it. So it's like, OK, it's one thing, you know, to say those you now have in custody have

00:49:35.780 to be provided the following screening, the this bare minimum of so-called due process. But the odds

00:49:42.360 of them getting back those people in El Salvador are very thin, slim. And by the way, Trump did return

00:49:48.540 a guy from Nicaragua and a woman who had erroneously both been put on those flights when they had meant

00:49:55.240 only to get these Venezuelan gang members. So it's not like there's been no screening or no double

00:50:00.420 checking of what Homan is doing. They're making sure it's just how much scrutiny are they entitled

00:50:06.280 to. There's a couple of additional points on this that I do want to get to. I do have to take a quick

00:50:10.200 break, so I'm going to do this commercial and then we'll come back. We got to talk about what John

00:50:14.380 Harwood, formerly of CNN, tweeted out about this, among other things. Stand by. Walter and Matt,

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00:51:51.040 So we are talking about what Tom Homan said, what Trump is doing, and whether this is a political

00:52:01.720 winner for him, irrespective of what happens at the courts. This would help. This would help Tom.

00:52:08.600 I mean, Trump. As John Harwood, former White House correspondent for CNN, worked for the New York

00:52:17.120 Times, NBC, and so on. Okay. Tweets out the following. Tom Homan is like an early 20th century

00:52:24.760 Southern sheriff who would send a mob to find a black kid who had allegedly looked the wrong way

00:52:30.960 at a white woman. The mob would bring back a kid who kind of sort of fit the description,

00:52:35.860 and the Homan character would say, string him up with an exclamation point.

00:52:40.620 That is where he went with Tom Homan asking, where was Lake and Riley's due process, Walter? Thoughts on

00:52:50.460 that? Well, I'm an actual novelist, unlike Harwood, so I'll give my competing image of Tom Homan. He's

00:52:58.900 like a bouncer in a very big nightclub and finds some guys who've been harassing women in the women's

00:53:06.200 bathroom and kicks them out the back door. And when they want to come back in the front door,

00:53:12.120 doesn't allow it. That is just a pure cheap shot on Harwood's part to act as though this is racist,

00:53:21.820 that it harks back to the Southern past and so on. Doesn't apply in any respect. It's a bad image,

00:53:29.080 a bad metaphor, and it's prejudicial on its face. He can say it, but it doesn't mean much.

00:53:37.260 But this is how this is a window into how a lot of these leftists view the issue of deportations

00:53:43.280 and of closing the border map. I mean, it's ridiculous. First of all,

00:53:48.280 how many times are these people going to invoke Jim Crow? You know, everything is either Jim Crow or

00:53:56.920 Hitler, basically, since Trump arrived on the political scene. The other thing I'll say is,

00:54:03.200 you know, I was a foreigner for 12 years. I lived in the former Soviet Union. I lived in a number of

00:54:08.800 different countries, principally Russia, but also Uzbekistan, Mongolia, some other places. And

00:54:15.140 you never have a sense that you have rights to a place as a foreigner. You always think of yourself

00:54:23.420 as a guest. You always want to be on your best behavior. And you always want to respect the

00:54:27.500 culture to try to learn the language, do all those things. And the idea that you can be thrown out

00:54:33.800 of the country at any moment is present in your mind at all times. I mean, I was thrown out of

00:54:39.260 Uzbekistan and they had every right to... What'd you do?

00:54:42.320 I was there on the wrong kind of visa. And yeah, I was actually playing for the Uzbek baseball team at

00:54:50.160 the time, and they threw me out after practice. But look, the idea that all these people, you know,

00:54:57.820 as much of a civil libertarian as I am, the idea that foreigners or the people who are here illegally

00:55:03.700 have the same rights as Americans, this isn't true. They may have, by law, they may have the same

00:55:09.860 speech rights once they get here. But the notion that the president doesn't have the ability to

00:55:15.140 throw these people out of the country doesn't hold up, I don't think.

00:55:19.540 It's absurd. And here's the interesting thing about this. Americans are actually really kind

00:55:27.440 and nurturing and welcoming, and they're caretakers. I think they have a natural tendency

00:55:34.660 to be caretakers. And so that whole, give us your tired, your poor, and all that, that works

00:55:38.880 on the Statue of Liberty. It worked on us for hundreds of years. And it worked on us all the

00:55:43.340 way up to about four years ago when Joe Biden took it to a place no one had ever taken it to before

00:55:49.640 and just opened the borders. I mean, it was just absolutely dangerous what he did. It was absolutely,

00:55:56.960 it was treasonous. That's how it feels, truly. I don't throw that term around loosely, but the

00:56:02.740 jeopardy that he put us all in and the lives that have been cost from that decision, there's just

00:56:09.160 no question he should be held accountable in any event. And so the American public have had it.

00:56:15.980 They've had it with this debate. The Democrats have lost it. It's one of the reasons why their

00:56:20.280 party is in the toilet right now on its approval ratings. So the American public is behind Trump

00:56:25.960 on this issue above all others. Well, this and the trans issue, they're really behind Trump.

00:56:31.480 And this is why I asked my team to pull this clip. Now, hold on. I'm going to set this up.

00:56:38.460 I saw a really interesting tweet thread, whatever, post thread on X a couple of weeks ago,

00:56:46.280 maybe a month ago. And the, uh, forgive me. I don't remember who started it, but the guy was saying

00:56:51.200 post here pictures or clips of people who are, who are portrayed as villains in movies who you now

00:57:01.260 no longer think are right. With like just the dramatic changes that have happened in our country

00:57:07.140 over the past 10 to 20 plus years. Who do you now see who was depicted so poorly in film as not a

00:57:14.080 villain who you were told was. And this was one that I was like, Oh my God, this is so true.

00:57:19.400 It's not a directly related to immigration, but you'll get it. It's this guy.

00:57:26.720 You want answers. I think I'm entitled. You want answers. I want the truth. You can't handle the

00:57:32.740 truth. Son, we live in a world that has walls and those walls have to be guarded by men with guns.

00:57:39.380 Who's going to do it. You, you Lieutenant Weinberg. I have a greater responsibility than you can possibly

00:57:46.880 fathom. And my existence while grotesque and incomprehensible to you saves lives. You don't

00:57:53.680 want the truth because deep down in places you don't talk about at parties. You want me on that

00:57:58.980 wall. You need me on that wall. That's right. And I don't really care if you have to give a few code

00:58:06.880 reds to do it. Tom Homan, Colonel Jessup. I mean, I, I kind of think Walter we're, we're all Colonel

00:58:13.860 Jessup now, or at least in the mood for Colonel Jessup. Listen, I grew up with dirty Harry and

00:58:20.660 Charles Bronson movies. We haven't even gotten close to that level yet. You know, in, in the early and

00:58:26.680 mid seventies, after the chaos of the sixties and the early seventies, we had a series of heroes.

00:58:33.680 Buford Pusser, the Southern sheriff, speaking of Southern sheriffs, walking tall, who went around

00:58:38.400 with a baseball bat, getting rid of all the scumbag. Yeah. In, in his small town. Um, uh, we had a

00:58:45.380 decade of vigilante movies where people practically stood up and cheered. Um, and in one of those dirty

00:58:52.100 Harry's movies, it's interesting. There was a villain who ends up kidnapping school children who is let

00:58:57.380 off earlier in the movie by a judge on a technicality, even though they have him. And, uh, then

00:59:03.300 does even worse things. So America's in that mood and cultural cycles, you know, as Andrew Breitbart

00:59:10.500 said, politics is downstream of culture. And I think in a lot of cases, that's true in terms of

00:59:15.300 cultural cycles, we're in a Tom Homan cycle, not a, you know, Tom Cruise upright boy scout cycle.

00:59:23.780 No, Lieutenant Weinberg, your time is up. We are, we are over the soft leadership stuffed into a

00:59:31.500 military outfit without ever having done a three mile run. I, we, we need the Jessops of the world

00:59:38.000 right now, Matt. And you know, I don't know what's going to happen with the trend to Aragua

00:59:42.260 gang deportations. I certainly hope the Trump administration wins this, but let's just say

00:59:47.740 they get their hands slapped by some court. It doesn't matter. It's all worth it. There were

00:59:53.820 setting up the protocols, like how far can Trump push it to get rid of these people that Joe Biden

00:59:59.300 let in. And it's the same thing as like the signal gate that we kick the show off with for

01:00:04.220 the Democrats who said nothing about the floodgates being opened. I have almost no tolerance for their

01:00:11.040 objections in how we now get rid of these people. You know, you, you've lost your moral standing to

01:00:18.120 complain about any of it. You caused this entire problem, which Trump is now trying to fix and the

01:00:25.060 country wants desperately to fix. Yeah. And just to go, to go back to, you're absolutely right. And,

01:00:32.320 and to go back to the John Harwood thing, the reason that comparison is so obscene, uh, is because

01:00:40.520 you know, the young black men who, who were rounded up during the Jim Crow period, they were citizens.

01:00:47.060 Uh, they had rights, uh, that were ignored and abused, uh, during that time. They, they should,

01:00:54.400 they should have shared full equal, equal rights because there were Americans just like us. Uh,

01:00:59.600 it's, it's an apples to oranges thing that to, to compare these two situations, uh, to, to claim,

01:01:06.900 to, to, to claim, uh, that, that, that these suspected gang members are, are, are like abused

01:01:13.960 American citizens just isn't true. Uh, and, and they, you're right. They've lost all standing to

01:01:19.360 complain about this. Like they have on speech issues. Okay. So let's, yeah, go ahead.

01:01:24.820 I have one last point, Megan. One of the reasons that Americans in general are so exercised about this

01:01:31.640 issue is that they see it in the streets at home and around them. In other words, an insulated federal

01:01:38.740 judge is one thing, but when you're, you know, driving down the street and you see, uh, indigent

01:01:44.300 people or what look like troublemakers, or if you go to the gym and you undress and the guy next to you

01:01:50.020 has a tattoo of, you know, bloody death on his back. Or if you come across these, uh, gang members in

01:01:58.360 any setting, you're going to be scared. You're going to be frightened. It's an existential issue

01:02:03.760 for everyday Americans, especially working class Americans who mix in the kind of places

01:02:08.520 that these people hang out. So they have a completely different perspective on this.

01:02:14.100 Mm-hmm. And of course the media wants us to believe that there are all these like sweet

01:02:17.920 asylum seeking good people who just want a better life in America. And that's baloney. I mean, yes,

01:02:24.520 there's some portion and we do have asylum processes that would allow those folks if they enter through

01:02:29.100 a port of entry to claim asylum, but it's been so abused that right now everything's paused right

01:02:35.100 now. It's just, you know, we got to stop the bleeding before we can decide whether anybody

01:02:41.040 else gets to come in. It's like the sign held up by Homer Simpson, go home. The country's full.

01:02:47.040 That's how that's the mood right now. Mood as the kids say. Um, okay. We've got to talk about the

01:02:53.600 media because there's been, it's not just John Harwood with his, with his sins. Do you guys

01:02:59.820 listen to the daily, the New York times podcast? It's called the daily and it's on daily, but I do,

01:03:07.120 I do it for you, Matt. I do it before you don't have to same thing with the view and Megan Markle's

01:03:12.020 dumb Netflix special. Um, I'm a giver like that guys. So the day you did what just, just, just as

01:03:22.880 like a horror movie exercise, but anyway, we're going to have to do a part two on that with Matt

01:03:28.820 Taibbi. Maureen, bad news. You're out. Matt Taibbi's in. Um, okay. So today they had on,

01:03:36.360 and I really liked Jim Rutenberg. I have to say he's a good guy, but he's a lefty and everything

01:03:41.460 he writes or says comes from that perspective. So that's just the way it is. He used to be the

01:03:45.620 times critic, like media critic. And, um, he's profiled me a couple of times. That's how I got to know

01:03:51.840 him. Anyway, I think he's a sweet guy, but this is his worldview, right? He comes on to talk to

01:03:58.700 the host. Uh, I think it was Michael Barbaro today. And, uh, yeah, it was. And they were talking

01:04:05.260 about the state of the media under Trump and how horrifying it is. They're horrified about how Trump

01:04:16.580 has seems to have like taken over media. I'm just going to give you a few samples of this.

01:04:22.120 There's so much to choose from. I guess I'll start. What do you think, Steve? Sot 10. You

01:04:25.180 guys pick the, pick your fave because we have a bunch that we love. Watch.

01:04:30.040 The echoes to that moment, to that period in time are so loud in these early days of the new

01:04:38.660 Trump administration. Strikingly. So he's going after the press in ways that are very similar

01:04:44.340 to the ways Nixon did, but he's going farther than Nixon did already in just the first couple

01:04:50.460 months. At the same time, he's completely able to make an end run around the press, around

01:04:58.600 its journalistic narratives to this huge new media sphere that will present the world only

01:05:08.360 on the terms that Trump wants it presented on. And that is something that Nixon could have

01:05:13.920 only dreamed of. What, what would it be? That's ridiculous. No, but what would it be like,

01:05:21.360 Walter? Can you like, if only like the Democrats have to look at Trump and think, gee, what would

01:05:28.380 life be like if we had outlets to just said what we want them to that were just like reliably

01:05:35.200 in our corner and doing our bidding? The New York Times is asking this question as though they haven't

01:05:44.880 been doing this for the Democrats since, well, at least the past 50, 40 years.

01:05:50.360 The New York Times has a hotline to the State Department and it's probably got a hotline to the CIA.

01:05:55.320 It's got a hotline to every position of power. It has taken dictation for decades and decades.

01:06:03.600 But the premise here is so flawed. The idea that everybody is waiting for

01:06:08.040 orders from Trump on independent media. The great thing about independent media now is that it's

01:06:15.200 growing up from the grassroots and Trump is coming down from the presidency and they're meeting and

01:06:21.240 they're not meeting seamlessly. There's a lot of arguments. I mean, if the conservatives,

01:06:27.200 right-wingers, libertarians have as many ways to argue with each other and disagree with each other

01:06:31.580 as the left does, but they also have something that the left doesn't have right now, which is

01:06:36.160 authenticity. And they're trying to claim that this is a top-down phenomenon when it is absolutely

01:06:43.240 the opposite. Yeah. That's so true. Think about what happened just the other week. We showed the clip

01:06:50.500 where it was like Black History Day and Trump had the CEO of Pfizer, among others, at the White

01:06:57.120 House. And Trump was like, hey, the CEO of Pfizer. And this is the ardent Trump faithful at the White

01:07:03.480 House where they were like, boo, boo. Trump, it is bottom up. They love Trump, but he doesn't control

01:07:11.980 them. They have their own strong feelings on the right about him, his policies, who they're going to

01:07:16.580 applaud, who they're going to boo. But before I get you to weigh in, Matt, I got to get in some of

01:07:20.940 this other sound because it's all so delicious. There's more of the same point being made in a

01:07:24.800 discussion about X. Listen here. If you open up X, what used to be Twitter, under Elon Musk and now in

01:07:34.520 the era of Donald Trump, you experience something very different than what you did a couple of years

01:07:42.240 ago, whether it's Elon Musk himself coming on to praise President Trump or a bunch of conservative

01:07:47.580 accounts I had never followed, suddenly are very prominent on my feet. But very much it now feels

01:07:56.180 like a daily megaphone for Trump and the entire MAGA movement. And that's a big deal for Trump because

01:08:02.520 it's, as you know, these are Trumpian narratives that take over the platform and support whatever

01:08:07.540 he's saying that day. Suddenly one of the most important widely used social media platforms

01:08:13.120 in the country, if not the world, is being managed for the president. But it's its own media sphere

01:08:22.340 and it's it's emerged in this entirely new way. And that's this world of male dominated media.

01:08:28.120 Okay, Matt, that what X was completely controlled by leftists since its iteration, since it was first

01:08:39.200 born till two years ago, right? Facebook, same. Zuckerberg's had a new sort of revelation that

01:08:45.740 he's, I guess, more right leaning than we knew. But Facebook has been completely left leaning,

01:08:51.000 at least in its in its core politics. Go down the list, all the social media, right? Like,

01:08:56.660 where's the discussion on how threads and blue sky are just democratic echo chambers now? You know,

01:09:02.420 like, not to mention outside of social media, actual media, which other than this one digital

01:09:09.280 lane is entirely controlled by leftists. So Megan, this is my favorite question that you've ever asked

01:09:17.560 me. Jim Rutenberg, the irony of this is astounding. Jim Rutenberg in August of 2016,

01:09:26.660 wrote an extraordinarily influential article called Trump is testing the norms of objectivity

01:09:33.500 in journalism. And the entire argument of the piece was that Trump was such an extreme threat

01:09:39.800 that journalists had to change the way they did business. We no longer had to be just true.

01:09:45.220 We had to be true to quote history's judgment, right? So it was a clarion call for the entire

01:09:52.260 mainstream media to change. It's they did this, they did that. We don't really care. You sorted out

01:09:58.760 attitude to let's become activists. Let's tell you which is the right thing and who is the villain and

01:10:06.260 who isn't. And let's become a narrative driven in your face politicized media, which has lost all

01:10:14.780 credibility with audiences. Now, when he says that Trump can go circumvent journalistic narratives and

01:10:21.320 go directly to the people, he's absolutely right. But it's that is a market contest, a free market

01:10:28.880 contest of believability where the mainstream media is losing because it's screwed up so many stories in

01:10:35.880 pursuit of trying to preserve these politicized narratives. They've made so many horrific factual errors

01:10:42.780 and gone over the deep end so many times that people trust the Joe Rogans and Megan Kellys of the

01:10:50.040 world far more than they do the Jim Rutenbergs of the world. He just he Jim Rutenberg created this

01:10:57.840 situation that he's lamenting. It's extraordinarily ironic. Hashtag part of the problem. I'll give you

01:11:04.260 one more. Stop 14. Again, back to Nixon. So to go back to Nixon for just a moment,

01:11:12.780 what he wanted, by your account, most was to somehow get around journalists like Walter Cronkite,

01:11:21.100 who he was so frustrated with and so frustrated that he couldn't get around with Trump. That dynamic

01:11:27.340 has been kind of inverted, right? Trump doesn't have to go around the mainstream media. This new

01:11:35.420 Trumposphere in the media is already working with him and for him. And in that sense,

01:11:43.740 Trump doesn't even need the mainstream media.

01:11:48.540 Walter, that's called the Internet. That's called the Internet. OK, but do you tell me, has there been

01:11:55.600 a modern president who's made himself more accessible to the mainstream media than this one? He he has them

01:12:04.700 in every day and lets them do a gaggle or holds a presser. He takes questions from all of them. He

01:12:10.800 gets annoyed at one or the other like the AP and says, all right, you no longer be in pool.

01:12:14.480 He takes questions from all of them. When he ran, he went on Theo Vaughn. He did Joe Rogan. He did

01:12:21.040 Sean Ryan. He's not talking to those guys now. They're not breaking news on Trump. He's talking

01:12:26.020 only right now to these mainstream media. And they're still mad that the others exist.

01:12:34.420 First of all, the reason that they can't adapt on the left is that they have an orthodox religion,

01:12:40.400 which won't allow them to get over certain catechisms. Nixon, Jim Crow, etc. These have

01:12:49.360 nothing to do with life in America 2025 right now. They're mourning a monopoly. They're mourning a

01:12:56.120 period when there were three networks and basically three newspapers. Now, they can't get over the fact

01:13:03.760 that they've lost power, that the Internet goes from side to side, not top down, that it is indeed

01:13:10.440 a net and that it's decentralized. The the attempt in the last few years before Trump was elected and

01:13:17.300 Elon took over Twitter was to make the Internet and social media resemble that old monopoly.

01:13:23.000 They wanted to sit on top of it and use these academic misinformation organizations and State

01:13:30.360 Department sponsored disinformation organizations to curate it in a way that was really a losing battle

01:13:37.360 in the modern age, because the Internet now is like water. It can flow around you. And it's not just

01:13:43.000 Trump who can get his message out. It's all kinds of what characters that they would consider

01:13:49.620 fringe. We've entered a new age and the New York Times can't believe it's not still 1974.

01:13:56.280 And then invoking Nixon can't scare everybody from, you know, speaking up. But if you either get with

01:14:04.780 it, people and Jim Rutenberg or you're going to be left behind and you have been.

01:14:08.660 Mm hmm. It's crazy because they talk about like they're so obsessed, of course, with Watergate.

01:14:14.480 And, you know, I grew up. I watched all the president's men. It was one of the reasons I

01:14:19.460 wanted to become a journalist, not because they took down a Republican, but because that was spoon

01:14:24.020 fed to all of us for decades as like the ultimate example of journalism at its core, like risk it all.

01:14:33.500 You're in danger. You're on to a great story. Everything around you is being threatened,

01:14:38.260 but you stay on it like a dog with a bone. And then ultimately you take down a president.

01:14:42.400 It was a crazy story. Only in retrospect, you look back and you're like, oh, that was the media

01:14:48.300 doing what it does, like trying to take down a Republican. Only this one they can't get to,

01:14:54.640 Matt. That's it. But the same thing that makes them like he texted war plans to Jeffrey Goldberg.

01:15:00.160 And, you know, Trump is the devil who won't speak to any mainstream media sources,

01:15:05.640 even though he does it literally every day. He his oxygen is speaking to any and all reporters,

01:15:11.900 but they won't see it. No, he's Nixon. He's got to control them all or he won't give us access.

01:15:17.060 It's so funny to see their own bias just completely

01:15:20.280 blind them to what's actually happening in front of them.

01:15:23.320 Not only the bias, though, Megan, it's also just the

01:15:28.660 wimpiness, the whining that, oh, my God, the president can get around the journalistic

01:15:35.660 narratives and get around the mainstream media. You know how the press gets power by being good

01:15:41.240 at what it does. When you get a good story, when you break news, when you when you're a great

01:15:46.820 investigative reporter like Cy Hirsch, people listen to you. It's like you have Hutton,

01:15:52.520 you know, when you have good information, people listen. When you suck at your job,

01:15:59.540 like the people at The New York Times mostly have for quite a long time now, you lose audience and

01:16:05.000 presidents like Donald Trump can get around you and you don't have the same influence that you have.

01:16:11.280 you had in elections previously. I mean, as a campaign reporter, I've been doing this for,

01:16:17.440 I guess, since 2004, I covered five straight presidential elections and the press continually

01:16:24.280 lost influence as people discovered that there were more sources out there on the Internet that

01:16:29.900 they trusted more because they got tired of hearing the same old canned stuff from reporters who were

01:16:36.340 too friendly with politicians in both parties, but particularly, you know, with with Democrats,

01:16:43.260 I would say. And the fact that they get frozen out, it's their own fault. It's their own fault for

01:16:48.820 not working and for and for not thinking about the audience first and not their political sponsors.

01:16:56.180 I got another one. I follow up with you on that, Matt. Another piece of the broadcast today,

01:17:01.000 their show was about how he's doing this right going around around the mainstream to these alternate

01:17:08.380 sources. Uh, but secondly, he's got, he's cracking down on the mainstream and they cite the ABC news

01:17:16.020 settlement for $15 million with him, which was required because their lead political anchor

01:17:21.800 repeatedly said Donald Trump had been found liable for rape, which is defamatory and false by any measure

01:17:32.000 as a lawyer and a journalist. I can tell you we'd all be in deep shit if we said that. And it's not

01:17:39.760 true about somebody. Then they cite CBS because Trump filed this lawsuit against them for their editing

01:17:48.120 of the Kamala Harris thing, which I already said in the show, I thought was bullshit, a bullshit case,

01:17:52.920 but he's trying to rattle their cage a bit. And he filed it in Texas where they have more favorable

01:17:57.540 laws on consumer fraud, et cetera, whatever. He wound up getting that transcript produced

01:18:01.940 and 60 minutes was somewhat embarrassed. It wasn't like the worst switcheroo of answering

01:18:06.420 I've ever seen in my life, but they were somewhat embarrassed by, it was clear they did run cover for

01:18:11.800 Kamala, try to make her look a little better than she did. But the way they talked about it,

01:18:16.480 Matt, it was like, Rutenberg was like, and this is 60 minutes. So he sued them and they're caving.

01:18:24.760 CBS is caving. But, and you're talking about like one of the most respected broadcasts in America.

01:18:32.380 And they're still, they're still so hard charging and tough at 60. You know, he did, in no way was he

01:18:39.620 recognizing what the rest of us see. It was just 60 is a shadow of its former self. It's a joke

01:18:45.280 today versus when it had murderers row with Wallace and Bradley and the restaurant. They just,

01:18:51.140 they don't, they genuinely don't see it. It it's unbelievable. Um, you know, my, my father,

01:18:58.780 who was a reporter used to tell me that you can learn, uh, you don't need to go to journalism

01:19:04.120 school that you could learn it. The basics of the job in two hours, but in those two hours,

01:19:09.500 probably the first thing that they tell you when you start working in journalism is that the one

01:19:15.180 thing that you cannot do is accuse somebody in print of a crime that they have not been committed

01:19:20.400 for. That will get you sued 100 times out of 100. And the, the ABC news case, uh, you know, I,

01:19:28.740 I understand the argument that, that, that you can construe that verdict, I guess, if you take a

01:19:35.680 creative interpretation of it as, uh, as, as rape, but it's not going to hold. He wasn't convicted of

01:19:42.000 rape and it wasn't a criminal case either. Um, the most you can say is sexual assault in that case.

01:19:48.660 And he repeatedly said rape and he clearly knew what he was doing. So that that's why they settled in the

01:19:54.420 60 minutes case. They settled because they did something embarrassing. Um, and they didn't,

01:20:00.440 and they're trying to merge. They're trying to have a merger and they need government approval.

01:20:04.460 Right. Exactly. And to your point about 60 minutes falling from its great heights, uh, Walter and I

01:20:12.280 talked not that long ago about the 60 minute story about speech and, uh, in Germany where they did this

01:20:19.000 extraordinary segment, what to, you know, sort of pray breathlessly showing, uh, how wonderful it

01:20:25.000 was to live in a country where, uh, six armed cops burst into your, uh, door to arrest you for doing

01:20:31.800 memes. And they don't see that insulting somebody. Yeah. Yeah. Literally for an insult. So not to

01:20:38.320 mention the old, the laptop can't be verified. It can't be verified. Leslie stall, not to mention what

01:20:44.320 Scott Pelley did with, uh, moms for Liberty when they came on. There's, there is no pornography being

01:20:50.660 put in K through 12 education library books. There is Scott. There is, it was just like,

01:20:57.520 there's so many examples. 60 is a joke to most of the country now, except these far lefties who still

01:21:04.000 see it as, you know, the God of TV news. It's, it's just kind of fun, frankly, to see like how out of

01:21:10.080 touch some on the left are Walter, because it's like the whole world has moved past them and

01:21:16.500 they're still, I said this once before it was like, we are all enjoying the fruits of our light bulb

01:21:22.260 while they are trying to figure out what oil to put in the lantern. Megan, they're on a nostalgia trip

01:21:29.400 right now on Broadway. George Clooney is playing Murrow. Okay. And good night and good luck. Uh, CBS

01:21:37.340 can't get over its glory days. Uh, New York times can't get over its glory days, but they all go

01:21:43.660 back to the seventies. It's like when my father insisted on playing music from 1955, when he was

01:21:49.300 a high school football player, uh, he, he just had to revisit it obsessively and going back to Nixon

01:21:56.080 and other moments when they had the power that they lack now, it's not our fault that there's no

01:22:03.480 Walter Cronkite. It's theirs. If they had someone as talented and trusted and charismatic, uh, and

01:22:10.000 frankly, objective seeming as Cronkite, bring him forth. I don't see it.

01:22:17.220 By the way, I, I too am obsessed with the music that was on the radio during my high school and

01:22:22.800 college years. We were recently went to a basketball game and I came out singing one of the songs that I

01:22:28.200 love this song. And I admit to you, I never paused to ask myself, what, what does this actually mean

01:22:34.860 until my kids were like, mom, do you know, do you know what that means? And that song was OPP.

01:22:46.080 Abigail Finan doesn't know either. You're down with OPP. Yeah, you know me. And let's just say in the

01:22:51.700 second verse, he says something like the lady to the ladies. OPP means something different.

01:22:55.980 The first letter is the same, but the last is something different. Then he says something

01:22:58.820 like, um, I can't, he won't say it, but he says something like it's other people's. He says,

01:23:03.960 uh, I won't say it, but it rhymes with the leanest, the meanest. Then I got it.

01:23:11.820 Remember how these people in New York used to wear those OPP hats everywhere?

01:23:16.520 That whole year, everyone was wearing fur OPP hats. I mean, the, the, the, the skull caps,

01:23:21.900 they were amazing. Don't know what I've been promoting all these years, Matt Taiby. Standby.

01:23:27.580 We'll figure that out in the break and be right back more with Walter and Matt coming up. Think

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01:25:15.080 I'm Megan Kelly host of the Megan Kelly show on Sirius XM. It's your home for open, honest and

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01:26:19.440 Speaking of leftist hypocrisy and cluelessness, Jasmine Crockett is a rising

01:26:25.360 star amongst the far left progressives in this country. She's a representative from Houston,

01:26:31.780 Texas of all places, which makes no sense because she's seems to be far too left for Houston,

01:26:37.960 but apparently not because they elected her. It must be like, you know, Orange County in California

01:26:42.580 being like the one outlier in an otherwise uniformly cover, you know, state like all red with the one

01:26:48.100 blue, all blue with the one red. Okay. So Jasmine Crockett got up at a Los Angeles dinner this past

01:26:57.040 Saturday and it was hosted by, this is perfect, the human rights campaign. These are the people

01:27:04.300 who run around harassing every business to make sure that they're being pro LGBTQ and pro DEI and

01:27:10.900 not doing anything that a human rights campaign finds offensive in any way, shape, or form.

01:27:14.700 Unless if you are in a wheelchair and are the governor of Texas, in which case it is fine

01:27:20.220 for Jasmine Crockett to do this to you. Watch.

01:27:25.680 Because we in these hot ass Texas streets, honey. Y'all know we got governor hot wheels down there.

01:27:34.560 Come on now. And the only thing hot about him is that he is a hot ass mess, honey.

01:27:42.080 I got to check my woke rule book, Walter, but I'm not sure that I don't think that's allowed.

01:27:48.820 I do not think you refer to the guy who's in a wheelchair as the governor of your state

01:27:52.840 as governor hot wheels. Some of her defenders online are like, we all call him that down here.

01:27:56.800 And as far as I can tell, it's only nasty leftists who do. I'm not sure that gives you a pass.

01:28:03.780 If she'd spoken in English, I would have understood her better. So I almost didn't miss,

01:28:08.420 I almost didn't catch the insult. One thing the Democrats specialize in is

01:28:15.800 accents. Okay. They adapt them to the audience and sometimes they go really far out there and

01:28:22.380 she's at, she's at the bleeding edge of street talk. Okay. There's going to be a point at which

01:28:30.080 I don't understand at all. And they're speaking in code to their own supporters. And frankly,

01:28:34.700 that's where they're getting every time they tried to micro target and bend over backwards for some

01:28:41.140 specialty audience with what are otherwise supposed to be national figures. You say she's a rising star,

01:28:47.260 but she can't rise that far because a lot of people here in Montana can't decode her speech.

01:28:52.680 Um, so, uh, it's, it, it, it is, uh, condescending. It is fespian. It's pure acting what they're doing.

01:29:03.060 They're trying to be edgy. They're trying to get headlines and clicks for these otherwise,

01:29:08.420 you know, ridiculous, uh, insults. But she got on the Megyn Kelly show and, uh, being a rising star in

01:29:17.120 the democratic party means getting increasing amounts of attention for increasingly absurd

01:29:22.340 statements. It's just like when you're desperate, you'll do a campaign trail, right? We're going to

01:29:27.180 win. We know you don't talk like that. We hear you every day. The sitting vice president, why are you

01:29:31.220 talking like that? Right. Or give whatever the accent was in front of the crowd, you know? Um,

01:29:36.620 but it's funny. You should raise this point. It's, it's like, we knew you were coming Walter,

01:29:40.040 because we, um, Oh, we got this from Ian Hayworth. He's a commentator online, clever. And he put

01:29:48.740 together a montage of Jasmine Crockett sounding like, I don't know, I guess her normal self versus

01:29:56.040 her new accent, which she brings out when she's in front of the crowds or she wants to rip on governor

01:30:02.780 hot wheels and his wheelchair. Take a listen to 17 B my mind. I'm thinking, I just got,

01:30:10.040 to Austin and I had to be five people to get here. I don't know about this. Y'all don't know

01:30:16.220 what white privilege looks like, but I'm a, I'm a show you a little bit of something. It's a huge

01:30:19.940 responsibility. You know, the congressional seat is over four times as large as my house seat.

01:30:25.580 I'm trying to get clarification. Look at calm down, calm down. No, no, no, no, because this is

01:30:30.000 what y'all do. And I was just starting to get into the rhythm of doing constituent services.

01:30:34.880 They send them to Texas. They send them to Florida, every deplorable state that we can think about.

01:30:39.060 They usually coming out of y'all think tank. There was someone that talked to me and said,

01:30:43.760 in fact, a former ambassador and the Clinton administration, someone on this committee then

01:30:49.740 starts talking about somebody's bleach blonde, bad built, butch body.

01:30:56.220 Okay, Matt, that was three years ago. The ones of her just sounding like a normal person talking

01:31:02.620 three years. It's not like that was 20 years, but then she moved to Mississippi for all that time.

01:31:09.060 That was three years ago. She sounded like a totally normal person. It's only now she's got her

01:31:14.100 accent and she's going to kick everybody's ass. It's such an affectation.

01:31:18.720 So this is funny. Jasmine Crockett sits on the judiciary committee and about a month,

01:31:26.840 it was about a month ago, Walter. Yes, we saw this. Yeah. And the hearings, the full committee

01:31:35.720 hearings are quite long. You know, you can be there for over four hours. So, and they let the most junior

01:31:43.320 members ask questions last. So I had to sit for quite a long time. And then at the very end,

01:31:51.340 Jasmine Crockett, who I'd never heard before, suddenly started screaming at me and Michael

01:31:56.280 Schellenberger. And when you're a witness in Congress, you have to pay attention to what

01:32:01.780 everybody says, because you never know when you're going to be asked an actual question

01:32:05.500 and allowed to, maybe even allowed to speak. But I could not understand what she was saying.

01:32:10.740 She was moving from one thing to another and she was doing all that code switching stuff

01:32:15.460 with the y'alls and y'all eyeing on this and everything. And, and then I went home to look

01:32:19.760 her up and I found her talking like that online. I was like, what was that all about? Like, and

01:32:24.160 you know, it it's, and there was no, not even a pretense of addressing any of the issues that

01:32:31.260 we were there to talk about, like digital censorship. It was just these people somehow represent the

01:32:36.960 other side. Um, she probably had no idea that, you know, I was a lifetime Democrat for, or had been

01:32:43.380 most, most of the time. And it's just, that's what she does. She, she puts out this video of her acting

01:32:50.000 in a certain way and that's how she fundraises. We, we actually did a bit of a deep dive on her,

01:32:56.480 uh, after my old colleague from Fox news, Todd Starnes posted something on X not long ago,

01:33:02.400 Walter. He, he posted the following Jasmine Crockett wants you to think she's from the hood

01:33:07.660 that she grew up on the streets. The exact opposite is true. She attended an exclusive day school where

01:33:13.120 tuition is nearly $35,000 a year. She also attended Rhodes college, a private school where tuition is

01:33:19.020 nearly $55,000 a year. She's cosplaying a gangsta. So we looked up her background. She was born in St.

01:33:26.780 Louis. She's 43. Her dad was a Baptist pastor and a teacher. Her mother worked in a post office.

01:33:33.540 Uh, she graduated from Mary Institute and St. Louis country day school. One of the most expensive

01:33:39.800 private schools in the city. Indeed, the current tuition, $35,000 a year, got her bachelor's from

01:33:45.700 Rhodes college in Memphis, Tennessee, private liberal arts school, current tuition, $55,000.

01:33:52.360 Then she moved to Texas and went to law school. Looks like she started at the Thurgood Marshall

01:33:58.700 school of law, finished at the university of Houston law center. But while she was at Rhodes

01:34:06.220 college in Memphis, the Tennessee star reported this past may, uh, almost a year ago now that she

01:34:14.260 and other black students, um, were, she claimed in a 2020 interview were victims of multiple

01:34:22.340 hate crimes in 2002 when she was a college student that she said in my junior year, I became the

01:34:29.600 victim of a series of hate crimes, a series of them myself, along with a handful of other black

01:34:34.980 students. This is her claiming this in 2020 about her 2002 college experience. My school didn't know

01:34:41.040 what to do. They brought in the Cochran law firm and the lawyer that helped me became my instant

01:34:45.320 Shiro. They go on to say in 2021, she provided additional details of the alleged hate crimes to ABC seven.

01:34:52.340 With the outlet reporting that she recalled needing an advocate when someone left racist hate mail in

01:34:58.080 her campus mailbox. And when her black friends had their cars keyed on campus, the Tennessee star

01:35:05.540 contacted Rhodes college to seek details about the alleged hate crimes and whether police reports

01:35:10.640 were filed and whether the Cochran law firm was actually retained. The college did not respond.

01:35:17.180 Um, an additional inquiry by the star to the Cochran firm similarly did not receive an immediate

01:35:23.080 response. The stars sought confirmation from the firm, um, about whether they even represented the

01:35:29.000 college and the female attorney identified as the Shiro and didn't get any response. And then before we

01:35:36.420 went on the air today, we call it, we followed up with the star just to see if they ever got anything

01:35:40.880 back. And here's what they got from Crockett's office. They told the star, the racist mail was assembled

01:35:46.980 using letters cut out of magazines and newspapers, but they say Crockett's office did not respond to an

01:35:54.620 inquiry by the star that sought to determine whether the letters still exist and are in her possession.

01:36:01.080 Pressed for details about the incidents. Her spokesperson told the star, they consisted of racist slurs and

01:36:05.920 hate mail that were put in her and 17 other student campus mailboxes. But the paper reports that Crockett's

01:36:11.380 office did not reply to the stars inquiries seeking to determine whether Crockett and the other students

01:36:15.460 ever filed a police report. Okay. I mean, I'm sorry, but this woman, I think Todd Starnes had it right.

01:36:24.840 She's cosplaying something other than what she is. They're all cosplaying. I was at a Senate hearing

01:36:33.160 recently and I looked at the left side of the horseshoe. It was the RFK junior confirmation

01:36:38.400 hearing. And there was Bernie playing the socialist and there was Elizabeth Warren playing the puritanical

01:36:44.920 scold. And, you know, it was like a boy band or a band that had been assembled by a casting agent.

01:36:51.600 They have a person who represents each part of their demographic or their constituency and they

01:36:58.840 play the role to the hilt. But the biggest difference these days between Democrats and

01:37:04.980 Republicans is this. On the Republican side, people claim that they should have power because of what

01:37:12.060 they've done. I'm Elon Musk. I shoot rockets into space. I, you know, administer Twitter. I'm Donald

01:37:18.260 Trump. I built skyscrapers and, you know, developed real estate around the world. On the Democratic side,

01:37:24.700 it's what was done to you that's important. Yes. You know, this is what happened to me when I was

01:37:31.280 young, when I was in college. I was a victim. Now, I just think in America, claiming that victimization

01:37:38.160 is an accomplishment is a period that's over. She's still at it, but I don't think it flies.

01:37:46.460 She's another AOC who was Sandy Cortez for her entire upbringing in Yorktown Heights,

01:37:53.740 which is part of Westchester, Matt. Not Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez, woman with a Puerto Rican history.

01:38:02.000 She does have a Puerto Rican parent and the others, the white person from Westchester,

01:38:05.440 I think. In any event, now she's, you know, AOC and she wants us to lean into the person of color

01:38:11.040 she is in the rough upbringing she had in the Bronx, which is not Yorktown Heights. Trust me.

01:38:18.000 Lifelong resident of New York state and dated a guy for five years from Yorktown Heights to stop.

01:38:23.020 In any event, now Jasmine Crockett's out there. She wants to be the lead attacker of

01:38:29.680 Elon Musk, of Governor Abbott, of Ted Cruz. Here's her latest on Elon, I guess, as

01:38:37.680 she celebrates her birthday, which was March 19th. On March 29th, it's my birthday. And all I want

01:38:45.340 to see happen on my birthday is for Elon to be taken down. Yes. Listen, I have learned as I serve

01:38:53.380 on the Doge Oversight Committee that there is only one language that the people that are in charge

01:39:00.380 understand right now. And that language is money. She sounded normal there a little bit, Matt. I

01:39:08.160 guess the accent comes and goes. Yeah, it seems like this is a person for whom there is more than

01:39:15.040 one language. And it's apparently not just money. But yeah, I think Walter is exactly right.

01:39:23.700 And your comparison to AOC is apt. It's so strange. You know, Ocasio-Cortez, before she became,

01:39:33.060 before she ran for Congress for the first time, there was a Bernie back group called Brand New

01:39:37.200 Congress, whose mission was to replace the entire Congress. Alexa, stop. To replace the entire Congress

01:39:47.360 with populist candidates. And they chose to support AOC because when the people from this group met

01:39:57.820 with her, they felt like she was a, quote, normal person and wouldn't come off as an activist who

01:40:04.780 would rub voters the wrong way. And so the irony of that, you know, she gets into Congress and

01:40:11.360 immediately adopts a completely different personality. I think that does happen at times.

01:40:17.420 You know, people, once they get a taste of politics and they, especially when they get a

01:40:22.460 taste of social media attention, you just never know what's going to happen to them. And the

01:40:26.960 incentives in, particularly in the Democratic Party politics, are all wrong now. They just

01:40:31.380 incentivize people to behave in ways that they never would in real life.

01:40:35.460 You know, Walter, I used to have a best friend who she'd, she'd have a few drinks back in the

01:40:38.940 college days. And she was, start speaking with a Southern accent. It was, it was organic. It wasn't,

01:40:44.240 it wasn't an affectation, just kind of started coming out. It was her drunk personality. I don't

01:40:49.020 think Jasmine Crockett has such an excuse. I like, she's trying to send some sort of a message.

01:40:53.880 She thinks like being street is going to make her seem tough or get her some sort of cred with some

01:41:00.540 sort of a group, but really just makes her look dumb, especially when you have the old tape of her.

01:41:05.060 It's, it's middle-class and upper middle-class people pretending to be poor and, and nobody

01:41:12.060 wants their children to grow up and be poor. Uh, she's playing a role. And when she's relaxed,

01:41:19.520 she stops playing it as we just saw. In fact, when she's drunk, she sounds like a kid who went to

01:41:24.400 private school. Yeah, that's right. That's the worst, the worst. And, uh, you guys, it's been a fruitful

01:41:32.400 and enjoyable two hours. And I thank you both profusely for coming on. Great to see you both.

01:41:38.120 Thank you. Went too fast. And we are back tomorrow with Jordan Peterson. He's only been on one other

01:41:44.120 time. Looking forward to that. Thanks for listening to the Megan Kelly show. No BS, no agenda, and no fear.

01:42:02.400 Thank you.

01:42:03.580 Thank you.

01:42:04.120 God bless that.

01:42:05.720 Whoa!

01:42:06.080 Thank you.

01:42:06.620 Whoa!

01:42:07.320 ?

The Megyn Kelly Show - March 25, 2025

Bizarre Group Chat Details, Media Compares Trump to Nixon, and MK Media Launch, with Walter Kirn and Matt Taibbi ｜ Ep. 1034

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