The Megyn Kelly Show - Bombshell NEW Polygraph and Suspect Claims - Part 2 of Megyn Kelly Investigates Nancy Guthrie's Disappearance

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00:00:30.600 Welcome to The Megyn Kelly Show, live on Sirius XM Channel 111 every weekday at New East.

00:00:42.280 Hey everyone, I'm Megyn Kelly. Welcome to The Megyn Kelly Show. It is now day 45 in the search

00:00:47.920 for Nancy Guthrie. No suspect, no vehicle, no motive has been identified in this case,

00:00:54.720 though the sheriff did say he believes he knows the motive to the local NBC affiliate.

00:01:00.520 So that's something it has been over a month since images and surveillance video of a masked

00:01:05.440 man in front of Nancy Guthrie's front door were released by authorities. The suspect caught on

00:01:10.980 camera does not seem to be a criminal mastermind. At least that was our viewpoint. He appears to be

00:01:15.800 trying to cover up the nest camera with nearby shrubs. But on the other hand, he's gotten away

00:01:20.840 with his crime for 44 plus days. And that says something given that they had reportedly some

00:01:28.480 400 law enforcement officers on this in the very beginning. Today, we will dive into what we know

00:01:33.640 about him. We at least think that it's a male and the potential theory of more than one suspect.

00:01:39.660 You remember Maureen yesterday saying she believes that the perp on that porch had a walkie-talkie

00:01:45.880 in his pocket. And if he had a walkie-talkie, there was an accomplice. And that's her theory.

00:01:50.840 Brian Enten is reporting that the FBI returned to that Mexican restaurant.

00:01:56.340 It's called El Charles Cafe in Tucson.

00:01:58.260 The one that Nancy Guthrie was sitting with Savannah and Annie Guthrie in for that Today Show segment that aired in November of 2025.

00:02:08.500 The FBI reportedly asking if there was anyone suspicious around during filming, if anyone wanted to take photos, if anyone got angry or if they lingered.

00:02:17.520 I mean, that's just good police work, right?

00:02:19.000 Just going back to a place where, you know, Savannah and her mother were in public together and finding out whether there are any leads there.

00:02:24.980 There are also a lot of questions surrounding the potential technology that could solve this case right from those images that we saw on the front door to many other techniques that we're learning about that the FBI has in its arsenal.

00:02:39.640 First, though, we're going to take a look back at some of the early coverage of Nancy's disappearance when we first saw the suspect together.

00:02:45.920 Remember, we were live in the air when this happened, just how little information the authorities made public as the Guthrie family begged for help and an MK show demonstration surrounding a Nest camera at the center of this case.

00:02:59.860 Watch.

00:03:01.140 Everyone is looking for you, mommy, everywhere.

00:03:04.720 The American TV anchor Savannah Guthrie.

00:03:07.220 Nancy Guthrie.

00:03:09.060 Revenons sur cet enlèvement de Nancy Guthrie.

00:03:12.180 Marsha la bouskeda de Nancy Guthrie.

00:03:14.020 警方重点调查

00:03:44.020 interest of everyone to have this completed as soon as possible. We received your message

00:03:50.600 and we understand and we will pay. It's now day 10 of the search for Nancy Guthrie. Authorities

00:03:56.340 believe she was forcibly removed from her Arizona home. But beyond that, they don't seem to know

00:04:02.940 much else. Yesterday, the Pima County Sheriff's Department posted on X, quote,

00:04:09.140 investigators have not identified any suspects, persons of interest or vehicles connected to

00:04:14.320 Nancy Guthrie. Great job. And the FBI in a statement given to this show and other media

00:04:19.660 outlets yesterday saying, quote, the FBI is not aware of any continued communication between the

00:04:24.480 Guthrie family and suspected kidnappers, nor have we identified a suspect or person of interest

00:04:30.440 in this case at this time. But the FBI, we've now learned, has been brought in, as I've been

00:04:35.560 reporting uh kind of late and then stiff-armed by the sheriff hi there everybody and now we have

00:04:44.520 heard again directly from savannah guthrie her tone was not optimistic as we enter into another

00:04:51.800 week of this nightmare we are at an hour of desperation and we need your help

00:04:59.140 as we went to break uh the fbi released four pictures of a man clearly outside of nancy

00:05:11.740 guthrie's front door in a ski mask in leather gloves wearing a backpack and they are terrifying

00:05:20.980 all i can think looking at these is oh my god this poor 84 year old woman saw this man in her

00:05:27.000 bedroom. There's video, you guys, look at this, of him approaching the Nest Cam. He takes his right

00:05:32.420 hand, the side, like where your pinky knuckle is, and he starts kind of like, it looks like he's

00:05:38.760 banging it. He's trying to get the, not hard though. Then he turns around. Now I can see the

00:05:45.380 back of the backpack. This is going to be very helpful. They're going to be able to see what

00:05:47.960 brand this is. It's a treasure trove, you guys. It's a treasure trove. I mean, they hit pay dirt.

00:05:53.540 They got the gold, you guys.

00:05:55.800 Like, somehow the system did still have this.

00:05:58.100 We can see his gait, Maureen.

00:05:59.560 We can see how he walks, which is also another big tell.

00:06:03.040 Yes, and I notice how people walk.

00:06:05.040 I can tell their footfall as they walk down the hallway, who's coming.

00:06:10.040 And this is the break I think we've all been waiting for.

00:06:14.100 Here is what the Nest camera looks like, and we're going to show you a demonstration that we did.

00:06:18.020 Taking it off the base is easy.

00:06:20.920 You can pull it right off.

00:06:21.920 and does not stop the filming and anybody who knows the nest camera should know that if you

00:06:29.880 have this little key it pops right off it would take nothing for like an experienced burglar or

00:06:37.220 kidnapper to know oh all i need is this little thing it's off and you don't even need this just

00:06:43.300 wiggle it a little and it came right off there's not an on off switch guys getting it off is not

00:06:49.320 enough. It should still be rolling. And there should still be images of the guy getting it

00:06:53.680 off. What didn't we see? A smashed nest camera. It's gone. So you tell me whether you think

00:07:00.400 Kash Patel possibly has shots of this guy stealing it, damaging it, or whether the guy was so dumb

00:07:07.660 he took it eventually, put it in that backpack, and possibly they have actual pictures of the

00:07:14.720 inside of the house and what went down that are waiting to be retrieved by the geniuses at google

00:07:21.200 the clock is ticking now that they're gonna get him somebody knows him time's not on this guy's

00:07:26.240 hands your days are numbered it's just a matter of time before we do a news alert saying he's been

00:07:30.720 caught i just i can feel it there's just those pictures are too good it's been too long already

00:07:40.080 but doesn't mean it's not going to happen. Joining me now to discuss it all, Chad Ayers,

00:07:44.440 former SWAT team leader, and Jonathan Gilliam, former Navy SEAL and FBI special agent and author

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00:08:58.600 Guys, welcome back. It's sort of chilling to see it as it happened and those images came in and we

00:09:04.280 totally thought, Chad, it was just a matter of days after those images broke that this guy would

00:09:10.080 be under arrest. How wrong we were. Yeah, how anything that we've talked about just does not

00:09:15.820 seem to have come to fruition yet. But let's be honest, that's law enforcement. We live in a time

00:09:21.720 where people want answers. We have cell phones. We get answers immediately. And unfortunately,

00:09:25.920 in these types of cases, it lasts longer. It actually takes me back to a case here in the

00:09:31.640 upstate of South Carolina, where there was a horrific homicide that went unsolved, like four

00:09:36.420 or five people killed in a motorbike store back in the late 90s. And it took probably close to 20

00:09:42.280 years until that case was solved. So, you know, I can't imagine the Guthrie family, you know,

00:09:47.300 and poor Savannah happened to fly back to New York, you know, and try to get a normal life

00:09:52.020 started back again, get her life going, still knowing mom is out there, you know, whether she's

00:09:57.660 alive or not, we don't know. But it's just heartbreaking. And that video, I mean, it just

00:10:02.160 tears at your heart. I still feel like, Jonathan, that video will solve this case. I still, I mean,

00:10:08.180 it's only been one month since that video hit. So it's not like, that's not an eternity in law

00:10:13.920 enforcement. And I just still feel like maybe in that mountain of tips they received, all the

00:10:18.680 thousands, there's something, or there's somebody who's still going to come forward and say,

00:10:23.900 I want the million dollars and I know that guy. Right. I think some of the biggest things that

00:10:29.500 popped out over that period of time that you compiled all that video was that he was seen

00:10:34.540 before that, prior to that night. And that really has been really not talked about that much. It

00:10:41.500 kind of was, oh yeah, he was there before and then that was it. But that gives us a lot of

00:10:46.140 understanding about that the individual was somewhat familiar with the neighborhood, that he

00:10:51.540 was familiar enough with that house that he went back um and uh so i think there's probably more

00:10:59.020 video information out there than what they've given us uh and uh i i'm not sure why they haven't

00:11:05.700 released a little bit more detail about the other times that he might have been there and really

00:11:10.520 talked about that more as you've shown this sheriff uh from the very beginning made huge mistakes

00:11:18.200 because it was kind of like the O.J. Simpson judge.

00:11:21.460 You know, this guy, you can tell that he either wants his own TV show

00:11:24.880 or he's just taking this limelight and running with it.

00:11:27.480 It goes along with the personality that's been reported by him or about him.

00:11:31.960 And I think when you look at the totality of the statements,

00:11:36.220 and especially yesterday with this interview that he gave,

00:11:39.380 and it's this conflicting information that makes, once again, no sense.

00:11:43.500 Why would you be telling people that you know the motivation of this individual when you're also telling them you don't have a suspect?

00:11:55.360 So, you know, you don't know the motivation.

00:11:58.240 You have a theory of what the motivation is.

00:12:01.320 But if you don't have the individual, most likely you don't know exactly what the motivation is.

00:12:06.680 But when he makes comments, he makes final comments with finality, like we're ruling out the family.

00:12:12.880 Well, you can't rule out the family unless you have identified at least what happened there.

00:12:19.140 And to our knowledge, we don't even know if she was taken or alive or dead.

00:12:24.440 So, you know, I think it's been a problem with this sheriff.

00:12:29.360 I do realize that there's people working behind the scenes.

00:12:32.720 But again, with the sheriff's department, the way it's been reported is that if he doesn't like somebody, he gets rid of them despite their experience.

00:12:39.280 So we have to question the experience of the investigators.

00:12:43.660 And I just think that so much time elapsed from from her missing and the time that the family called to the point where law enforcement actually got involved within a day and a half.

00:12:58.020 He made a statement, the sheriff, saying that he was standing down the search to give his deputies time to rest for 24 hours.

00:13:07.180 that made no sense to me whatsoever and lastly you know i've been talking a lot i was on a show

00:13:12.620 with the guys from uh the cajun navy international incredible group of guys they are people but the

00:13:20.540 guys that run it they have access to i i haven't seen assets like this since i was in the fbi i

00:13:27.900 I mean, they have access to not a dog, dogs, tons of people, FLIR, drones, their experience in finding bodies in water and so on and so forth.

00:13:40.860 And they have offered, which I overwatched this long or looked at and reviewed for them this long operations order, how they could step in and assist.

00:13:52.220 never even got anything back from from law enforcement except for a thank you but no thank

00:13:57.640 you so there's there's these things that just don't make any sense at all and i think it all

00:14:03.020 comes down to ego and what ends up happening in that you know uh cases suffer and and like chad

00:14:09.140 said you know you're seeing law enforcement because this is that i think this more than

00:14:14.760 the uh incompetency of criminals this type of stuff happens a lot in law enforcement and derails

00:14:21.800 investigations. Either they're overworked, understaffed, or they have investigators that

00:14:29.280 have not been trained properly, or they have leadership that should never have been promoted

00:14:33.680 into the positions that they're in. Go ahead, Chad. Well, I read yesterday, Megan, that 85 out

00:14:39.360 of 86 officers, deputies from this agency have a no confidence in their own sheriff. That's no bueno.

00:14:47.120 If you have a leader, well, I can't, Chad, I can't even call him a leader at this point,

00:14:50.800 unfortunately. But if you have someone at the head of this agency that is spewing off facts

00:14:57.920 that are making it seem like they're facts and they're not facts and they've not been proven,

00:15:03.260 we can't do this. I agree. You know, what Maureen was saying earlier, too, the fact of

00:15:08.240 why is the PIO not the one? That is their job. That's their sole job. Why is this PIO not the

00:15:14.840 one doing it? Yeah, they're supposed to do the comms for the cops. That's why police departments

00:15:18.160 have them, but he probably wanted to see his face on TV. He was very quick to run to do the rounds

00:15:24.160 as soon as the Nancy case broke. You know, remember he did all sorts of podcasts. I was like, what is

00:15:29.840 this guy doing? He's doing like everybody's show. And then he had the pressers and then he seemed to

00:15:35.500 realize he didn't want to share with the FBI, stopped the pressers, went back to just him in

00:15:40.360 front of the cameras, which he's continued now, though less frequently, but he seems to enjoy

00:15:45.760 seeing his face on camera. And he's all over the board of the messaging. Here's my question for

00:15:51.580 you, Chad. Here's something I can't understand. I can understand how this is not solved yet

00:15:57.460 and still could be. Why haven't we seen an arrest of the ransom note people, right? Like the first

00:16:07.520 guy wrote the alleged ransom note and said, you have till Thursday. And then I think it's 4 million

00:16:14.160 by Thursday, but it's going to be $6 million if you wait until Monday, and I want my money

00:16:18.100 in a Bitcoin, and he sent it to Harvey, and he sent it to the two locals, and Harvey said

00:16:22.160 all along, law enforcement's taking that very, very seriously, like this actually could be the

00:16:25.960 guy. Clearly, the family believed it actually could be the guy because they did responsive videos.

00:16:30.880 Then, nothing. Then on top of that one, there was another guy who swooped in and said,

00:16:37.700 I can tell you who the perpetrator is. I saw them down in Mexico with Nancy,

00:16:43.180 but I want a Bitcoin in order to give up. So that seems like obvious bullshit, number two,

00:16:49.600 and number one, maybe bullshit as well. Where's the arrests of those people? Truly,

00:16:55.680 one of those could potentially lead you, at least possibly, to the kidnapper. So is it so hard? I

00:17:03.500 can see why it's really hard to track down Nancy's abductor, but why is it so hard to track down

00:17:08.240 those two guys? Well, I think that Jonathan probably has a little bit more experience on

00:17:13.860 international than I do. Personally, from the get-go, I thought this was some type of international

00:17:19.600 scam group, an organized group that's trying to scam people out of this. We see it every single

00:17:25.580 day, people calling saying, hey, grandma, I'm in jail, send me money, or hey, add some money onto

00:17:31.280 this. You've got a warrant, you missed court, you can pay this fine. So I do know that a lot of

00:17:36.840 times. I was talking to a friend of mine that's with the United States Secret Service, and obviously

00:17:40.400 they work a lot of financial-type crimes. Because I brought this up, why is it taking so long to get

00:17:46.300 to these people asking for the ransom? And the way they were explaining it, and again, I'd love

00:17:51.760 Jonathan to kind of jump in as well, but sometimes these international groups and their IP addresses,

00:17:57.040 I know we've talked a lot about that, but just tracking them down, they're in some desolate

00:18:01.120 town in the middle of West Africa somewhere, can be very difficult.

00:18:06.060 What do you make of it, Jonathan?

00:18:07.280 I just feel like why would it be so hard, especially the second numbskull, you know, is like, and I want a Bitcoin to tell you who the kidnapper is.

00:18:15.020 I saw him south of the border with Nancy.

00:18:17.040 They can't find that guy?

00:18:18.540 There's absolutely no records.

00:18:19.800 Like, there's no tools to figure out who these people are and pierce the veil and the Bitcoin veil or some other veil, you know, the email veil and find out who's claiming to have a connection to this case.

00:18:31.860 I mean, they could have followed it back as far as they could.

00:18:36.460 And it's just, you know, an Internet cafe in Nigeria.

00:18:42.480 It's they're just there's just nothing going to be there.

00:18:44.260 I mean, even in banks, you know, this happens a lot where people will tell somebody, hey, I'm going to buy your car from you because I see you're selling a car in a Facebook market.

00:18:53.540 I see you're asking 10,000 for it.

00:18:56.140 Why this cashier's check for 12,000?

00:18:58.720 And I'll give you that $12,000 to hold the car.

00:19:02.600 And then you just keep the extra $2,000 for doing this.

00:19:06.000 And people go fall for that.

00:19:07.940 And then what happens is when they take that cashier's check to the bank, that bank doesn't really exist.

00:19:17.220 And so the money goes into their account.

00:19:19.400 And then when the bank that this person has finds out that that bank isn't real, then that person's in hock for $12,000 and lost their car.

00:19:29.720 So they believe that's the way a lot of these cars got over to Iraq and Afghanistan during the war.

00:19:35.720 You saw all these American cars that were stolen that were over there.

00:19:38.820 That's one of the ways that happened.

00:19:41.120 Well, let me pivot then.

00:19:43.620 OK, I get it.

00:19:44.440 Let me pivot to the next related question.

00:19:46.460 There was a very interesting discussion on Nancy Grace about the tattoo on the wrist of the perpetrator, the guy who we did see on Nancy's porch.

00:19:55.520 And it may have international connections.

00:19:59.140 I don't know.

00:20:00.940 The FBI, Nancy's reporting, has enlarged, refined, and brought in a team of analysts to review the tattoo.

00:20:10.720 You can see, for the listening audience, we're showing just a tiny bit of the perp's arm,

00:20:16.600 and you can see that clearly this guy's got a tat.

00:20:20.000 And you can see a little bit about it.

00:20:22.040 I can't make out much about it, but you can definitely tell that he's got a tattoo.

00:20:25.740 Well, Nancy had on a guy named Darren Rosa, who's a tattoo artist of the Rising Dragon

00:20:32.180 Tattoos in New York City, 30-plus years in the tattoo business.

00:20:36.820 And this happened just a few days ago.

00:20:38.840 they talked about what this could signal about the subject. Let's listen here.

00:20:44.980 Black and gray work is a very prevalent style among gangs,

00:20:54.620 Mexican people who might be in these gangs or cartels. This is even considered hallmarks of

00:21:06.760 People who have moved up in the echelons of a gang.

00:21:11.420 You know, these people are out in the sun.

00:21:15.460 The southern western states get heavy sun exposure.

00:21:19.560 So this style of artistry can withstand the elements.

00:21:27.780 If this is all we're seeing, this is most likely the continuation of something that covers this man's entire arm.

00:21:37.900 Most likely he's got tattoos on his hands.

00:21:42.300 Most likely he's got tattoos on his neck and maybe even something under his eye because this is what they do.

00:21:50.200 Very interesting, Jonathan.

00:21:51.760 And like, that's from somebody who knows.

00:21:54.060 Like, I believe that guy with ease.

00:21:56.080 Yeah, I mean, it could be. It could be a lot of things. And that's a problem, you know, Megan, with all this evidence that is speculation. And, you know, Nancy Grace likes to pump things up quite a bit. So it could be.

00:22:13.460 yeah well i've had my issues with nancy grace before and i was right by the way so um you know

00:22:20.560 when uh when you put something on there like that what i do like about that however is that

00:22:26.620 it is a good possibility and and this guy knows that when somebody gets something on their wrist

00:22:31.940 and they probably have it on their hand it probably goes up their arm so that and it takes

00:22:35.500 a while to get those tattoos so somebody who's doing that could uh could have um had that but

00:22:42.280 again it's it's speculation it's not proof um but uh but i like hearing what that guy had to say so

00:22:49.280 you know here's the problem and i mean if it's real we're talking about a possible mexican gang

00:22:54.960 tattoo and that is one of the things that's been lingering over this case all along how close she

00:23:00.020 is to the southern border how sort of professional the kidnapping seemed you know got in got out got

00:23:05.940 away with it. You know, that's still very much a viable possibility. So easy to cross back over

00:23:12.260 across the border without getting detected. No one's going to bother you really at all.

00:23:17.820 So, you know, it's just one of the many things. If that is a Mexican gang tattoo, it's

00:23:22.260 I don't know how you got that from that wrist. I don't know how he came up with that part of it.

00:23:27.120 But I mean, there's a lot of people who get especially in Arizona. It's like a thing to

00:23:32.200 have a sleeve he says black and gray work is a very prevalent style among gangs mexican gangs

00:23:39.620 they like to get black and gray um that that's a thing that's like a style for them for the gangs

00:23:45.080 i mean if you look down at your wrist and you have a black and gray tattoo you might be in a gang

00:23:50.020 also if you take ways the wrong way to the airport um chad can tell you this chad can tell you this

00:23:57.400 as well, is that now this, even that little bit right there, if somebody has been arrested and

00:24:02.940 they have tattoos, they're going to have their tattoos recorded. So there could be a database

00:24:06.360 that recognizes that portion and somebody just has to put that together.

00:24:12.860 It's so tiny.

00:24:13.760 Yeah, but it doesn't take much.

00:24:15.180 So this is the problem. Like here too. So this is one of the things I wanted to mention to you.

00:24:18.400 I didn't know about this, but apparently there is next, the FBI is using next generation

00:24:22.500 identification technology, NGI technology. And it's got all sorts of really cool things that

00:24:28.580 they will use, like advanced fingerprint ID, latent and palm prints, and then something

00:24:35.100 called the iris service, the iris service. And I was like, well, that sounds very promising

00:24:39.920 because you can see this guy's irises. You know, he's got the face mask on, but the irises,

00:24:45.320 yeah, that's inside the eyeball. You can see those pretty clearly. And this is an iris

00:24:50.960 image repository within the FBI system, all iris images enrolled in the repository are linked

00:24:57.700 to a 10 print fingerprint record. It has an automated iris search and that it's used for

00:25:05.720 identification validation at some correctional facilities, to your point of like what they have

00:25:10.040 at the tattoos. Typically inmates have an image of their iris scanned upon arrival. Then when

00:25:16.060 they're moved or released, staff scan the inmates eyes again to help ensure that they're moving

00:25:20.920 or releasing the correct person. That's fascinating. And so there's a question about

00:25:27.280 whether this guy's irises could potentially have been helpful here. Back to your friend, Nancy,

00:25:34.080 Jonathan, she had on an expert this month who said that, yes, this exists, but this would be tough

00:25:41.780 because most of these retinal scans require deeper imaging. And we don't know that we have that of

00:25:50.220 this guy. I'll give that one to you, Chad. Yeah, obviously, and I don't know enough about this

00:25:55.000 technology. I do know that the ring doorbell is obviously operating off of some type of IR infrared

00:25:59.880 light, you know, to capture that image. So, I don't know if that could affect, you know,

00:26:05.420 that IR hitting the light. If you're getting some type of glare, you know, bounce back,

00:26:09.640 that's not truly capturing that virus image. You know, I will go back just kind of briefly

00:26:16.000 to the tattoo thing, I think it is interesting and important to note that I agree that I don't

00:26:21.400 know many men who go just get wrist tattoos. I would agree that this is probably a full sleeve.

00:26:28.980 So again, we start diving into databases or getting images out there or questions in the

00:26:35.600 community. Hey, who do we know? Do we know workers or anybody that has full sleeve tattoos that also

00:26:41.340 has that soul patch that we've mentioned before that we saw under his lip. Um, you know, it's

00:26:46.720 starting to kind of, that, that, that is all part of this investigation. I promise you building this

00:26:51.460 thing up piece by piece, nothing kind of gets swept to the side. We've got to use all of the

00:26:56.900 evidence to put the, you know, to, to paint this picture here. Uh, what do you make of the possible

00:27:02.980 Iris service possibilities, Jonathan? And also there is, for example, um, the interstate photo

00:27:11.200 system. That's where they have a repository of all photos received with 10 print transactions.

00:27:17.900 That's the electronic submission of an individual's 10 fingerprints. So anybody who's been

00:27:21.420 fingerprinted, they'll have that. Of course, they'll have facial recognition, which I'm sure

00:27:25.800 they've been trying to use on this guy's face, even though it's covered by the ski mask. I mean,

00:27:31.000 is it possible that this stuff takes longer than 30 days and these are still viable possibilities?

00:27:36.320 well so enough some of this information in these databases and these systems these applications

00:27:43.520 that they have um they can like if it's you and i right here and we're playing that they can look

00:27:48.600 at it and say okay that's megan kelly that's jonathan gillam you know but they're but when

00:27:52.860 you've got partial uh part of your face covered the majority of your face cover the system may

00:27:56.960 be able to look at it but it may not be able to say this is absolutely that person that's like

00:28:02.060 a partial DNA that they get somewhere. They just won't have the ability to match it up.

00:28:07.720 Like Chad was saying, perhaps the IR lighting affects that in some way, shape or form.

00:28:13.400 But if this individual, and that's the other thing, if they've been scanned before, then

00:28:18.660 like if this individual has been in prison before, then there's a potential that that could have been

00:28:23.520 scanned. But also, Megan, as you know, prisons are government related. And so just because

00:28:29.500 these 10 prisons do it doesn't mean the other 20 do so you may not have a complete database if

00:28:34.880 everybody's been in jail so that's a problem never as easy as you want it to be never right let's

00:28:40.380 keep going because there's a lot of other stuff i want to get to yesterday maureen and fits were

00:28:43.580 suggesting maureen in particular thought that that one item in the suspect's right pants pocket

00:28:49.200 was a walkie-talkie we've had the discussion before but she's convinced that that was a walkie-talkie

00:28:53.940 because talk had turned to whether it might be potentially a wi-fi jammer some of the neighbors

00:28:59.000 are reporting that their Wi-Fi was mysteriously down right around the time that Nancy was taken.

00:29:03.980 It's also come out now, thanks to ABC News, that the cops have retrieved additional images

00:29:09.060 from Nancy's remaining cameras around her home. No moving pictures, but still images,

00:29:15.540 but nothing from the night in question. Law enforcement on her property after the fact,

00:29:20.320 the pool workers prior to, but nothing on the night in question. And so many people say maybe

00:29:25.160 there was a Wi-Fi jammer, but there's a debate about whether that really could be a Wi-Fi jammer

00:29:29.260 that was used that night because, A, it didn't work. We saw images of the suspect at 212. Maybe

00:29:36.360 they jammed it at 147 when the images first went offline. The cameras were said to first go offline.

00:29:41.860 But by 212, they were clearly recording some images again. And others said if he had a Wi-Fi

00:29:47.580 jammer that was strong enough to shut down the neighbor's Wi-Fi, you're talking about this like

00:29:52.740 NASA shit. Like that's next level, you know, criminality there. And this guy with his little

00:29:57.700 vegetation over the ring camera didn't exactly project NASA shit. Okay. So all of this is to

00:30:03.300 get to, is that more likely a walkie talkie in the pants? And so we talked to them yesterday,

00:30:09.800 Fitz and Maureen, and, and there was a question raised by Fitz about whether it's not a walkie

00:30:14.880 talkie, but it's a police scanner. That's interesting because you guys well know that

00:30:20.440 these, you know, criminals, wannabe criminals, and wannabe cops, you know, often listen to the

00:30:27.840 police scanners for information. And look at this. That's what a police scanner looks like

00:30:32.960 right here on the left. And now I'll show you what the walkie-talkie looks like,

00:30:37.380 a walkie-talkie. It's almost identical. I mean, like we have no idea. We really can't assume this

00:30:43.540 is a walkie-talkie and thus there's an accomplice. They look almost identical, guys. So anybody have

00:30:49.140 any thoughts on what that likely was inside this suspect's pocket? Well, let's go, let's start with

00:30:55.780 the walkie talkie aspect. I've said from day one, there's no way, I don't want to say no way. It

00:31:01.240 would be very difficult for this to be a single person operation. Nancy, and I don't mean this

00:31:07.040 in a derogatory way. She was 84, but she wasn't a very tiny and petite lady. So to, you know,

00:31:15.340 have to move someone, whether she moved on her own, you know,

00:31:18.760 she couldn't walk a far distance more than what they say,

00:31:21.740 50 feet or 50 yards on her own without having to sit down.

00:31:25.580 So I've always, I've always felt like there was a second person involved.

00:31:29.260 So if these people do have a little bit, they're still criminals,

00:31:33.600 criminals screw up.

00:31:35.000 But if they had some type of training or professionalism behind them,

00:31:39.980 they left their cell phones. All right.

00:31:41.920 And they operated it off of two way radios. That's a possibility.

00:31:45.340 If it is a scanner, which, listen, I know that a lot of criminals use scanners.

00:31:49.780 We had a bank robbery group here in the upstate in the 80s.

00:31:55.180 That's what they were doing.

00:31:55.960 They were using scanners and luring law enforcement to other areas of town.

00:32:00.540 And once they heard that they were on scene there, they'd go rob these banks.

00:32:03.900 So there's a lot of benefit to scanners.

00:32:05.920 What would be interesting is at that time of night, how many 911 calls or how many calls for service or traffic stops did the Pima County Sheriff's Office respond to?

00:32:16.480 Was there radio traffic that could have been picked up on that ring doorbell during that time?

00:32:22.400 Obviously, ring doorbells also are operating, you know, you're hearing audio outside as well.

00:32:27.060 So is that something that they could have, you know, downloaded and got from Google, too, is, you know, you're hearing that scanner go off.

00:32:34.180 But I'm leaning more, honestly, towards the two way radios and they're communicating to each other.

00:32:39.680 Yeah. Then we are talking about an accomplice. Let me show you the soundbite to which two of them, to which I'm referring here, Jonathan.

00:32:45.860 This is Ted Nearhouse, a security tech consultant, speaking to NBC News about whether this was a Wi-Fi jammer.

00:32:53.300 Nearhouse says he's skeptical a Wi-Fi jammer was used in Nancy's abduction.

00:32:56.960 If they turn that thing on when they pulled up, you'd never have any video on any camera.

00:33:02.260 So that's why I don't think anything was jammed.

00:33:06.720 Now, that's interesting because, you know, what they said when they released the timeline in this case, Jonathan, was that at 1.47 a.m., the cameras were brought offline by something.

00:33:19.040 They were, the cameras were at 1.47 somehow brought offline.

00:33:23.360 And then at 2.12, they said image detected.

00:33:26.940 That's how Sheriff Nanos described it.

00:33:28.840 And so, and he said it could have been an animal.

00:33:30.920 You know, and it wasn't until we were all together that one day in the middle of February that Kash Patel released actual images of the bad guy that somehow had been recorded, even though they weren't supposed to be recording on the Nest Cam found, you know, deep within the Google service.

00:33:45.600 Google owns Nest.

00:33:47.980 So it's never really made perfect sense how the guy seems to have knocked comms offline at 147 only for them to still be working at 212.

00:33:58.320 well and these are questions that i've had along the way like uh when these cameras uh set for a

00:34:06.600 while and there's no activity does the camera then shut down to save battery life because most of

00:34:13.600 these are on battery they're not hardwired to the house so that could have been the case so you know

00:34:18.340 that you have animals or certain things uh that night uh it was i i looked at the uh the moon

00:34:25.380 cycle it was a full moon that night so the camera could have been recording different things that

00:34:30.260 alerted it and then it just shut down because nothing had alerted it for a while and then

00:34:34.140 when somebody walked by or uh approached like he could have walked by that house before

00:34:39.200 and alerted that camera and then it shut down and then he comes in there so yeah i don't i don't

00:34:44.280 know exactly what the answer is to that megan but i think um the scanner part of it you know

00:34:50.160 in all my career, I have not seen an individual that's trying to break in somewhere. And I've

00:34:57.080 done some cases where we worked with some very, they weren't high profile, but the burglaries

00:35:04.980 that they were committing were very high profile. And they never used a scanner. They didn't use

00:35:12.200 radios in most of those cases. They were just very smart about what they did.

00:35:16.080 um they do sometimes use scanners i've seen scanners used more than i've seen radios used

00:35:23.340 by police scanner you mean yes and so uh i'm kind of leaning towards possibly a scanner or

00:35:32.320 you know some uh i was looking up non-smart cell phones if they're still readily available

00:35:39.760 and what a burner phone looks like um it could have had a phone but had it turned off the other

00:35:45.140 thing it could have been is a Garmin GPS. If the guy's not familiar with that area, that's about

00:35:49.980 the size of a Garmin GPS, handheld GPS that you would use when you go hiking. And so it could

00:35:56.120 have been bad as well. You're so right because I feel like doesn't a police scanner make perfect

00:36:00.200 sense? If you're going into a stranger's home and your plan is to abduct her or whatever his plan

00:36:07.280 was as he was entering, breaking and entering, you would want to know what the hell the police

00:36:11.900 were like, you'd hear it. You're waiting to hear somebody call 911 and hear dispatch send somebody

00:36:16.980 to the home, right? I mean, that's why you would be carrying the scanner.

00:36:20.960 But the size of that pocket, and I'll tell you this, if you look at that picture, the size of

00:36:25.340 the pocket in that jacket, and I'm kind of familiar with that type of jacket, it's not a super deep

00:36:30.100 pocket. So whatever is sticking out of there does not have a big antenna. You look at the scanner

00:36:34.520 on the left, those typically scanners have a little bit bigger of an antenna on it.

00:36:40.820 The personal handheld radios that you would also buy at Walmart have an antenna that looks

00:36:46.780 like that.

00:36:47.800 And so do the Garmin GPSs.

00:36:49.760 They both have a very small antenna.

00:36:52.840 Typically, the scanners, the police scanners have a larger antenna so they can reach out

00:36:56.860 further.

00:36:57.720 So that's the only reason why I'm moving away from a potential scanner to a handheld

00:37:03.060 radio which then would give credence that there's probably more than one person um or this guy could

00:37:08.620 just be some kind of fruitcake that wants to gear up like a cop and have a radio and a gun

00:37:13.520 and go rob people so that happens a lot as well you know a lot of criminals for whatever reason

00:37:20.660 they like to mimic police officers and carry gear and radios while they go and do things but

00:37:26.160 uh i don't know any of this here's the most important thing about this all of this is

00:37:32.080 possible. And, um, but it all leads into certain directions. You know, if there, if, if he has a

00:37:38.540 radio, then there's a potential he had somebody else. If there's somebody else, there's a potential

00:37:43.400 that he, that they were canvassing areas to rob, or they were focused on her. So you have to look

00:37:50.140 at all these theories and then, uh, you put those, uh, those different, uh, possibilities on a board

00:37:56.940 and then you see where the evidence fills in. I still think that if she was accidentally killed

00:38:06.340 or killed in lieu of a burglary, or if she was abducted and they didn't know what to do with

00:38:14.140 her, her body is somewhere within two hours of that house. And I just don't see the outer

00:38:19.960 perimeter sheriffs involved. I haven't heard anything about any other sheriffs or police

00:38:24.580 departments involved in their areas, looking at canvassing areas where she could have been dumped

00:38:30.000 and not having the ability to bring other people in and search because the sheriff

00:38:35.160 is a problem. There needs to be a broader search other than just five miles from her house.

00:38:40.740 Yeah. Oh, it's one thing, Chad, to be a control freak if you're amazing at your job in solving

00:38:46.920 crime. It's quite another to have that quality when you're a bumbler who has a sketchy past

00:38:53.920 when it comes to your law enforcement days

00:38:56.060 and whom, as you point out,

00:38:58.420 doesn't have the confidence

00:38:59.260 of any of the people working underneath you.

00:39:01.680 It's not so great to have a control freak in that setting.

00:39:04.420 You need somebody to help him out.

00:39:06.420 You need somebody, another pair of eyes,

00:39:07.880 and it looks like all I've heard,

00:39:09.800 all I've heard is frustration from the FBI

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00:41:14.120 Hey, everyone.

00:41:15.200 It's me, Megan Kelly.

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00:41:46.120 I do want to switch the discussion, though, in the time we have.

00:41:51.960 Brian Enten is reporting that you guys may recall that we had heard law enforcement had been asking the locals for video, of course, of the night Nancy went missing, but also of January 11th.

00:42:03.880 And there was a report of a white van seen in the neighborhood on that date and possibly of a guy.

00:42:11.360 At least one neighbor described a guy who didn't he didn't look like he fit in the neighborhood walking.

00:42:15.500 on that date. So they were asking for that too. Well, Brian's now reporting that according to

00:42:21.100 one of Nancy's neighbors, they're also FBI are especially interested in January 24th,

00:42:28.660 which is eight days before Nancy went missing the Saturday before they're looking for video

00:42:34.380 from both dates. So that's also interesting. January 24th. I mean, all of this tells you

00:42:40.120 what chad about the state of the investigation well as of about two hours ago megan i can report

00:42:47.000 from a very very reliable source that is boots on the ground there that the fbi and the pima

00:42:55.320 county sheriff's office have no leads no solid suspects what and this is from someone boots on

00:43:04.360 the ground that i trust all right they have no solid leads i can also report that um it has been

00:43:13.580 confirmed this morning and i'm sure we all assume this that every family member passed polygraphs

00:43:19.640 with flying colors so what does this other date have in mind uh probably tells me that there was

00:43:25.840 just some images or some type of electronic evidence that's kind of pushing them to try to

00:43:32.460 dive into that date a little bit more. But that is a conversation that I had.

00:43:37.240 That information is huge. So then that means, I mean, I think, I know some people don't believe

00:43:43.640 in the polygraphs. I do. But if that's true, then we can move on from the brother-in-law

00:43:50.020 and the sister. And it kind of sheds a little more light on the sheriff's statement to NBC

00:43:56.620 that he's had a theory about this case from the beginning and nothing has moved him off his theory

00:44:01.880 and that he does believe he knows the motivation for the crime.

00:44:05.940 And in the interim, between that first day and now,

00:44:08.740 where he says his theory hasn't changed,

00:44:10.320 he did say that the family had been ruled out.

00:44:12.800 He then kind of begged off of it

00:44:14.460 because, of course, they don't have anybody in custody,

00:44:16.380 so I'm not sure you can say anybody's been totally ruled out.

00:44:18.860 But that's very interesting.

00:44:20.280 Wait, I want to play for you the sheriff's comment to NBC News

00:44:24.360 just days ago on how he's saying, contrary to what you're saying,

00:44:29.080 that he thinks he knows the motive, which would be a lead,

00:44:31.400 but you tell me. Here he is. There is something that's come out in the investigation that

00:44:36.480 gives you a sense of motive here and why this person did this?

00:44:40.120 You know, I think it's come out from day one. I think from day one, we had some strong beliefs

00:44:44.940 about what happened, and those beliefs haven't diminished. Do you believe it was a burglary

00:44:49.760 gone wrong? I'm not going to get into those theories. We have our beliefs. Everybody else

00:44:54.960 has theirs. Nano says he's intentionally withholding their theory and other details

00:44:59.380 in the case, citing the integrity of the investigation. But you're saying, Chad, no

00:45:04.880 leads? You can have a theory. Let me correct the way he worded it, no suspects, right? You can have

00:45:12.200 leads without suspects, obviously, and that's what they're doing. That's why they keep going back to

00:45:17.300 these residences and these houses and following up with neighbors over and over again. I agree.

00:45:22.900 They're probably on to some type of theory, but we still don't have a suspect.

00:45:29.680 This is like amazing.

00:45:32.280 But if that's true, are you revising what you were told from no leads to no suspects?

00:45:38.620 The way he worded it is the FBI has no suspects.

00:45:45.520 well i mean i guess i'm not shocked to hear that but like that doesn't bode well in terms of you

00:45:54.400 know like when you look back at the brian kohlberger case they did it took 48 days or

00:45:58.100 something like that to nab him but they had a suspect for you know a good chunk of that last

00:46:02.220 portion there jonathan it wasn't it wasn't bupkis like they'd been working leads they had found the

00:46:06.900 the knife sheath they had found they knew the car that the suspect had been driving they were

00:46:12.180 going through meticulously all the records of the white hyundai elantras of certain years

00:46:16.500 it sounds like none of that's happening here it sounds like if chad's right it sounds like there

00:46:21.060 isn't some special sauce of hot leads they've been pursuing that they're not just sharing with

00:46:25.760 the public and we're days away from getting an arrest it sounds like it is as cold and unsatisfying

00:46:31.580 as many of us have feared right and and so no suspects does not mean that there's no

00:46:39.200 theories, of course. And, you know, this is criminology. So rarely do we get an evolution

00:46:47.620 in tactics by criminals. So criminals fall into like everything else. You know, everybody goes

00:46:53.780 to the grocery store at the same time. You put something out online and next thing you know,

00:46:57.640 everybody's wearing that clothing, that article clothing or watching that TV show. So criminals

00:47:02.740 are very similar. They develop tactics because these people are not rocket scientists. Typically,

00:47:08.260 They develop tactics that criminals will gravitate towards.

00:47:13.900 And so there's probably just a handful of possibilities that motivated this individual to go in and do this.

00:47:23.040 And so when you narrow down those possibilities, you can then start looking for specific evidence of what has occurred.

00:47:31.240 And so there's statistics. You can throw that in there and say, this is typically what motivated an individual to do this. This is typically how it was carried out by statistics. And then you add in those other theories and possibilities, and you'll start to get very definitive avenues of investigation.

00:47:50.900 And so this is the way this this is the science behind investigations.

00:47:55.440 And then you'll get, you know, I believe probably one of the reasons why they're asking for information for those dates is because they either talk to some of the neighbors who said, we think this occurred on this day.

00:48:08.900 We may have heard this or saw this. And so they'll go back and they'll look at video footage that people give on those dates to try to discover if there's any other evidence of leads.

00:48:20.400 And again, on the date that you're talking about at the end of January, it was already starting about, I think you said, eight days before.

00:48:30.680 So that would be moving towards a full moon.

00:48:33.080 So it's starting to get brighter, which means in Arizona, when it's a full moon at night, which it was on February 1st, it is like a streetlight on outside.

00:48:42.700 It's pretty bright if the moon is up.

00:48:45.200 and I think you can see the difference in the videos that they show from the night that Nancy

00:48:50.300 was abducted or removed from her house and you can see the picture that was taken we we believe

00:48:56.580 somewhere in January that it's it's much darker and so they may be looking to see

00:49:03.960 anybody has video footage if information comes in for those dates and then be able to enhance

00:49:10.640 that video from that point forward but this just in from our friend online um nerdy addict who's

00:49:17.340 had some good scoops in this case um parlaying off of the brian enton report that the police

00:49:23.960 are asking residents and neighbors of nancy about january 24th as a date of interest and possible

00:49:30.060 video that they may have the nerdy pointing out that there is footage that drew little attention

00:49:36.460 earlier in this case of somebody, he seems to be like peering through windows and kind of

00:49:42.980 walking around, but he's reporting that this drew little attention as the individual appears to be

00:49:49.160 black. And we do not believe that the suspect on Nancy's porch was black, though, to be honest,

00:49:54.960 it's kind of hard to tell. But saying that ring posts from neighbors describe this man or somebody

00:50:02.600 who looks like this man, we're showing now, around 4 a.m. on January 24th, peering through

00:50:08.300 windows and attempting to open doors at their homes. So this video, nerdy here, is suggesting

00:50:17.620 that this is video from January 24th, that it's somebody peering through windows and attempting

00:50:22.180 to open doors at homes, and that it comes from ring cameras, it's labeled ring, in the area,

00:50:28.220 but the individual appears to be black and the guy on the porch and not hiding their face

00:50:35.980 is not hiding anything about themselves there's fingerprints everywhere so i just don't think

00:50:42.580 that's i think this is showing you how many people are out there you know walking about

00:50:49.360 and looking in people's homes and cars in the middle of the night it's pretty profound how

00:50:53.620 many people are out there doing this scary that's what that tells me yeah and also it you know the

00:50:58.940 carefulness of law enforcement whatever i mean now at least or the fbi in trying to go track down

00:51:05.300 every lead chad you know like they don't think this is the guy he's black we think the perp is

00:51:09.760 hispanic or white but might as well right like might as if they have no leads if they have no

00:51:15.680 suspects might as well same as might as well go back to that mexican restaurant where savannah

00:51:20.620 And Annie and Nancy had the margaritas and ask, didn't anybody linger?

00:51:26.420 Didn't anybody have some sort of an angry fit?

00:51:29.020 You know, I don't know.

00:51:29.940 That to me just seems like responsible police work and nothing to get excited about.

00:51:33.980 But what's your take?

00:51:35.640 Well, I think it leads to the integrity of the investigation, that no stone will go unturned,

00:51:42.120 that we are following up on any type of lead.

00:51:44.780 Listen, go and find out.

00:51:47.020 Hopefully by now they've interviewed this guy that was just on that video.

00:51:50.120 I mean, is it possible that you dot your eyes and cross your teeth and make sure he wasn't the second person that we are, you know, discussing?

00:51:58.820 There's likely a second person involved. Could it have been him?

00:52:01.720 I agree with what Jim's saying. I do not think he is involved.

00:52:05.560 Also, you could say I was trying to see if we saw any tattoos lurking out the bottom of that sleeve of his, which I, you know, unfortunately wasn't able to see through that video.

00:52:16.100 But I think that, you know, at some point, you've just got to start over.

00:52:21.420 You've got to start over and we've got to start from day one again.

00:52:24.600 And we've got to start going through every piece of information, every tip that's come in, tip by tip.

00:52:33.040 Because is it possible?

00:52:34.300 Look, Megan, you and I look at some of these tips and dismiss them.

00:52:38.180 We slide them over to Jim's desk and he comes back behind us and looks and he picks up on something that we miss.

00:52:42.980 That happens all the time.

00:52:44.080 that's called good investigative skills good police work that's what they need to do they

00:52:49.280 need to call jonathan and you and fitz and maureen and say and our pal james and say we

00:52:54.900 need we need fresh eyes we need somebody to start anew because if the non-fresh eyes haven't gotten

00:53:00.740 us anywhere that's a problem investigations are often solved by people who inherit the case not

00:53:06.420 the actual primary and original investigators because they come in and they just have a fresh

00:53:11.480 look. And when they go back, the other problem is when somebody is investigating and if they're

00:53:18.220 not cataloging the evidence and the leads and then clearing those things properly, this is a huge

00:53:24.480 part of investigating that most people overlook. I think the two biggest things that ruin an

00:53:28.800 investigation is first and foremost, crime scene degradation. When people go in and trample the

00:53:34.580 scene or release the scene too soon, right? That messes up a tremendous amount of evidence.

00:53:39.180 Right. And the other thing is, are the leads being cataloged properly and then cleared?

00:53:46.500 Because what will happen and evidence is it comes in the same cataloged and stored.

00:53:52.040 And what we see is that often when these cases develop, they're not being the leads coming in are being put in a book or they're just handed to somebody and say, go clear this.

00:54:02.040 And so they either are redundant and clearing the same leads multiple times or they just never get cleared.

00:54:08.540 And then when they have evidence, I mean, how many times we've seen where they don't know where, you know, the the underwear from the victim is located.

00:54:18.680 They can't find it anymore. Right. So that's because they don't have experience cataloging and storing evidence.

00:54:26.100 So I think when we look at this, the way that this is handled, we would probably find a lot of that that information.

00:54:34.300 Yesterday, we played a soundbite from the sheriff saying, you are not safe.

00:54:40.360 You should be wary if you're in this neighborhood.

00:54:43.760 You know, keep your eyes and ears open, which is 180 from what he said in the beginning,

00:54:50.000 saying this was targeted and there's really no reason to worry.

00:54:53.880 And now he's like, oh, if you think it's just Nancy Guthrie, think again.

00:54:57.520 You know, all right, what?

00:54:59.520 And sure enough, all of this, what looks like incompetence from the outside, is taking its toll on the neighbors.

00:55:07.940 Can you imagine being these poor neighbors with like, of course, the media was camped out there nonstop, and the law enforcement keeps coming back, and they're going door to door, both the Pima County Sheriff's Department and the FBI now, too, knocking on every single door again and again and again, and the ring cam or the nest cam, and this date, and now also this other date, oh, and now there's a third date, and please go back and check again.

00:55:28.440 I mean, I'm sure these neighbors, and plus they have to worry about living there.

00:55:32.180 Here is, Brian spoke with, Brian Enten spoke with a gal named Al Dean, I think it is.

00:55:37.420 And listen to this person describe, this is on March 9th, how the neighborhood has changed.

00:55:43.320 It's interesting, like no one's ring cameras work in this neighborhood, it seems like.

00:55:46.540 Well, it's such a safe neighborhood.

00:55:48.240 Yeah.

00:55:48.420 Like, honestly, like half the time we used to not lock our doors.

00:55:53.000 We do now.

00:55:53.940 Now we have cameras and things like that.

00:55:56.460 But no, yeah, I've never even had a package stolen ever in 23 years.

00:56:02.440 So it really is one of those because I heard some people say, oh, yeah, it's like one of those places you wouldn't lock your doors, but you really did.

00:56:07.100 Yeah, we really didn't. Yeah, we really didn't.

00:56:09.260 I mean, I had three teenagers wandering around here and yeah, I'd come home and the door back door would be right open.

00:56:16.420 I'm like, who is that? So, yeah, never a problem ever.

00:56:19.760 and now that tells me very quickly is that that neighborhood which there's a lot of those

00:56:28.740 neighborhoods here in arizona that are very dark at night and because they don't want the ambient

00:56:34.080 light getting out there and ruining their scene uh and so it's very dark and removed you're not

00:56:39.040 just right off the freeway into that neighborhood that you have to travel a little bit to get to

00:56:42.900 that neighborhood so the way she's describing that neighborhood is that it's gone for a long time

00:56:49.100 without any robberies or any worries so that tells me either somebody who is a burglar

00:56:56.300 keyed in on that neighborhood or nancy was targeted because nobody nothing ever happens

00:57:03.140 in that neighborhood and what we do find statistics show is how in these sleepy towns or

00:57:08.320 these sleepy neighborhoods where they say nothing ever happens here and we're shocked by this murder

00:57:13.060 or this mystery, it is typically related to somebody who is related to that person or who

00:57:20.420 met them along the way and targeted them. Well, I mean, I have to say, given all the video we've

00:57:27.660 seen of peeping Toms and sketchy characters clearly trying to break into homes or at least

00:57:34.200 peek into homes, you know, between the Nancy abduction and today, I'm not sure Aldine is

00:57:39.620 correct about how safe that neighborhood is, even separate and apart from Nancy. Sometimes you have

00:57:44.240 the illusion of safety. And then an event like this comes out and you get everybody's ring camera

00:57:48.820 and you realize, oh my gosh, what was I thinking? You know, what was I doing? Especially living in

00:57:53.080 a place that's as dark as this neighborhood is, you know, like my neighborhood, thankfully,

00:57:56.900 we've got street lamps and a lot of them and everybody's got their lights on in their home,

00:58:01.560 especially now. The thing about Arizona though, never assume is that you will have a neighborhood

00:58:07.800 where you know million dollar homes and then and nothing ever happens there and scottsdale's like

00:58:13.780 this you go down the road like five minutes and all of a sudden you're in one of the worst places

00:58:18.620 in phoenix but the the crime doesn't exactly bleed over into that area it pretty much stays

00:58:23.800 safe the whole time so this just shows how it was in baltimore too sure that individual went

00:58:31.360 into that neighborhood because they either discovered that place as a target or they were

00:58:37.700 targeting Nancy and her home in particular. And because we don't hear any evidence, we haven't

00:58:44.140 heard any testimony that or ring camera or any cameras of an individual approaching any other

00:58:51.200 home. We just have not seen that. And if the FBI has it, they haven't made it known. So that tells

00:58:57.520 me that they were keyed in on that home for whatever reason. Yeah. I mean, do we have a

00:59:06.380 theory we like, right? Because it's like the sheriff saying I had a theory and my theory's

00:59:10.400 only grown and I'm like feeling good about my theory. To me, that suggests that it's not the

00:59:16.420 family, which dovetails well with Chad's information, that they all passed polygraphs

00:59:22.040 and pass them with flying colors.

00:59:24.960 And it also suggests to me that it might not be a kidnapper

00:59:29.440 because the, I don't know, I feel like we've moved off of that

00:59:36.260 since those ransom demands kind of fell apart.

00:59:38.680 Like, I can't imagine that theory being your original theory that only grew.

00:59:43.680 Now, if your original theory is a burglary gone bad,

00:59:47.960 and maybe the sheriff knows something we don't know, Chad,

00:59:50.280 about something that was stolen from inside the house

00:59:53.920 or some things could be more than one thing

00:59:56.680 that was stolen, other than Nancy, that is.

01:00:00.160 That's something that could have been the original theory

01:00:03.720 and that has only grown since then.

01:00:06.880 Yeah, I still go back.

01:00:08.420 The biggest confusion through all of this is why take her?

01:00:13.340 That's what I'm struggling with.

01:00:15.240 If this was a burglary gone bad, why take her?

01:00:18.240 I think I mentioned this a few weeks ago, Megan.

01:00:19.800 And it's not like you can take her out and Jim, you're out there.

01:00:23.960 But, you know, the idea that you're going to just take her miles down the road in the desert with a couple of shovels, like I would assume that the terrain and the dirt is much more firm and hard.

01:00:34.860 You're not just going to dig a six foot hole and put her in.

01:00:38.260 Going back to the idea that this is a possibly like a cartel type thing with the tattoos.

01:00:44.920 It's just so freaking risky.

01:00:46.780 Like what cartel is going to come up, kidnap her, take her back across the border, knowing that if it is discovered in the agencies that we have working, the FBI, other three-letter agencies that I'm sure are involved, and they find out that the cartel down in Mexico has her, I promise you Donald Trump will wipe that entire city off the map if they find that out.

01:01:09.600 So the whole thing, everything, and I think this is the hard part for most viewers, and even myself as a former law enforcement officer here, is every single one of these theories is possible.

01:01:24.680 Every single one is possible.

01:01:26.360 I am still leaning towards this was a two-man show, that it was intended that they pick this for a reason.

01:01:35.060 I do not know why.

01:01:36.560 I don't believe that it was truly because of who Savannah was, but I do believe it was targeted.

01:01:42.740 I do believe that it was two people that did this.

01:01:45.860 And that's where I kind of have to stop until we get a little bit more information or see some more of these images from the back door.

01:01:52.080 I don't know why the sheriff or the FBI, you know, unless there's something really damning at that back door.

01:01:59.300 I wish we were getting a little bit more information on what they saw, what the forced entry in the back door looked like.

01:02:06.560 Let me give you an example of how investigators see different things.

01:02:11.680 And Chad and I have been given the same information, but I see it differently than Chad.

01:02:15.440 It doesn't mean I see it better.

01:02:17.100 I see it differently.

01:02:18.520 I see that this individual was caught on camera, we know, at least once before.

01:02:24.320 And there's no sign that anybody else was there that time either.

01:02:28.540 So I don't see proof that somebody else was involved.

01:02:31.540 It doesn't mean that they weren't.

01:02:32.760 But my lead theory would be that somehow he keyed in on this house or like, for instance, if he did work on the house previously.

01:02:43.960 And so he may know what is in and around that.

01:02:47.040 He may have met her and got a sense that she's wealthy or he may have seen a show and found out that she's comes from a wealthy daughter.

01:02:56.580 So have you know, so have it.

01:02:58.160 And I think that this individual cased that home and then eventually on February 1st decided to go in and burglarize the home and something occurred in there where he had to remove her.

01:03:13.980 Now, what we do see in a lot of these types of cases where they remove a person, but they don't kill them immediately, but they don't know what to do with them afterwards.

01:03:22.640 And so then they kill them, keep them in their car and then dispose of them later, you know, days later in a totally different area.

01:03:31.700 And the same thing, if he killed her inside or injured her bad enough, he wouldn't want to leave evidence, most likely.

01:03:38.560 And the guy went out of his way not to leave any evidence of who he was.

01:03:43.540 So I see this as a good possibility that whether he killed her there or whether it was and that was his purpose or something happened when he removed her.

01:03:57.800 I just see that the possibility of him working with somebody else based on what we know is probably less likely.

01:04:08.720 But he definitely was around that house twice before by himself.

01:04:13.540 So you think Jonathan maybe in trying to rob her or burglarize her home, they had an altercation, possibly she scratched him, she had his DNA or something, but he didn't intend to take her.

01:04:28.680 He took her because something happened inside the house that led him to believe she had to go.

01:04:34.100 Yeah, I saw something that was very interesting the other day.

01:04:36.680 i don't remember who reported it but they said that when they were there almost immediately

01:04:41.720 after this or when when media started to show up and they saw that there were two drag marks that

01:04:47.720 were going through the gravel that were not tires and i thought that was very interesting because

01:04:53.400 if she was incapacitated um and either dead so she wasn't bleeding profusely because even if you

01:05:00.600 shoot someone, if they're dead, the bleeding is going to stop pretty quick. So there may be

01:05:06.840 splatter and there may be a mess inside, but as you pull them out of there, it's not like you're

01:05:13.720 going to, unless there is massive wounds where there's blood exposed, just a gunshot may not,

01:05:22.360 it may be internal, the bleeding. But after the heart stops pumping, the massive bleeding stops.

01:05:29.640 so uh she could have been drug out of that house into a waiting vehicle and then and then sped off

01:05:38.740 so there's there's a possibility of that both of these are good i think theories that could be

01:05:46.060 looked at but again the way this sheriff does things makes about as much sense as the way the

01:05:50.860 word sheriff is spelled you know you put two f's at the end instead of two r's in the middle it

01:05:55.460 never made any sense to me. So that's the way, that's the way the share of things.

01:05:59.880 It's true. Like dessert in the Caribbean, all, all these things raise questions.

01:06:04.060 Do you, you want to weigh in, Chad?

01:06:06.480 No, I just had a question. And obviously Jonathan coming from the federal side and,

01:06:12.420 and Jonathan, some of this stuff we, we, you know, for operational security,

01:06:16.180 we might not even be able to discuss, but something that I was thinking is,

01:06:20.380 do we not have, does any of these agencies not have the capabilities? We have satellites all

01:06:27.900 over. Is there not the capability, I know we're kind of treading on some Patriot Act stuff here

01:06:32.600 probably, but is there not the ability to pull satellite images real time from that area? I don't

01:06:40.880 know if the technology is out there or not. Well, I'm sure there's definitely satellites that could

01:06:46.820 pull real-time video of those areas, but there's not enough satellites where they're just constantly

01:06:54.260 scanning areas. And you're talking about satellites that are predominantly owned by

01:07:00.640 intelligence services and Department of Defense. The Sheriff's Department doesn't have one.

01:07:05.380 The FBI wouldn't have a satellite up there. They communicate and work things out like

01:07:11.040 inter-agencies uh typically would but uh so i i don't think that you would you would be able to

01:07:16.960 get anything there but i would say that and this may have already the time lapse for this may have

01:07:23.360 already expired but you know they could have put up uh drones or helicopters that have uh the

01:07:29.920 ability to look at um a different type of imaging uh heat seeking uh and then also looking for

01:07:37.360 buzzards as crazy as that sounds. I mean, we got no notification of anybody out there searching in

01:07:44.560 this way, shape or form. And that's why you, when people say we want to put together a posse and go

01:07:48.560 out there and search, you say, all right, but let's do it in a coordinated fashion. And then

01:07:52.580 because they could go out there and say, and this has happened numerous times where searchers

01:07:56.860 see a bunch of birds circling and they say, let's go look over there. And sure enough,

01:08:01.000 they find something. Yeah. And Maureen has been talking about how she's worked scenes where they

01:08:07.140 will be told to examine the animal scat because animals can't digest things like bones and hair

01:08:16.660 and they'll find clues sometimes it seems like none of that really thorough work has been done

01:08:22.280 though again we we are speculating because we don't actually know it i mean the odds of this

01:08:27.400 sheriff having been that thorough seems slim keep going there's limited amount of time also

01:08:32.460 So, Megan, it's not like animals eat anything any day that they see on the ground.

01:08:39.020 There's very specific times in which the bugs will go there.

01:08:42.380 Certain animals will partake in that that body and then the scavengers after that.

01:08:48.780 And after that, there's really it's on the microbe level where stuff is tearing away the body.

01:08:54.860 So there's very specific times from the point of death that any of these animals or bugs will get involved in this.

01:09:02.460 So, you know, if you know what you're looking for, if it's been five days, it may not be buzzards.

01:09:08.640 It may be, you know, rodents.

01:09:10.960 And so you tend to look for certain things on certain days.

01:09:15.980 I'm not saying that's the dates, but you see where I'm going with this.

01:09:18.580 No, no, but all he kept doing was turning down help, just turning down search offer after search offer.

01:09:24.480 we never saw the civilian you know masses go out there hand in hand and do the grid search that

01:09:31.140 we've seen in so many other cases where there's a missing person yeah the cajun agency was waiting

01:09:36.240 they wanted to i'm sure equi-search offered to they always come in and they always come in an

01:09:41.560 offer and there was a report that they did here too i'm sure the local citizenry offered to help

01:09:46.440 i'm sure every single one of nancy's neighbor neighbors the ladies glad mexico the ladies

01:09:51.340 from Mexico, which who are no, that's the real deal. Like they're there. That's nothing to trifle

01:09:55.740 with said no to it all. I'm starting to think the sheriff did it. I mean, it's like, why would you

01:10:01.280 see any relationship with her? Right. Like let's, let's dig deep on that one. Um, we're facetious,

01:10:06.580 but I mean, it's just, it's, it's a mystery remains a mystery. It's time for a little

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01:11:11.920 guys thank you both so much well to be continued thanks about it um love those guys chad and don

01:11:20.880 have a great job tomorrow on part three of our series investigators are working to process mixed

01:11:26.780 dna found at the scene with no other solid leads is dna going to be what ultimately cracks this

01:11:34.000 case thanks for joining us today we'll see you back here tomorrow thanks for listening to the

01:11:40.120 Megyn Kelly show. No BS, no agenda, and no fear.

The Megyn Kelly Show - March 18, 2026

Bombshell NEW Polygraph and Suspect Claims - Part 2 of Megyn Kelly Investigates Nancy Guthrie's Disappearance ｜ Ep. 1275

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