The Megyn Kelly Show - BS Report on Cuba and Drones, and Why Spencer Pratt Can Win, with Mark Halperin, Ryan Grim, and Curt Mills, Plus Why TDS is REAL, with Jonathan Alpert ｜ Ep. 1319

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00:01:00.500 Welcome to The Megyn Kelly Show, live on Sirius XM Channel 111 every weekday at New East.

00:01:12.220 Hey everyone, I'm Megyn Kelly. Welcome to The Megyn Kelly Show, and happy Monday.

00:01:15.700 It's been a busy spring for politics, with far more contested primaries than in a usual cycle.

00:01:22.540 Both parties undergoing intra-party battles as they try to position themselves ahead of the midterms and the 2028 presidential election.

00:01:30.200 Mark Halperin of NextUp will be here later to help us make sense of what is breaking over the weekend.

00:01:35.500 You might say he's NextUp.

00:01:36.780 But first, we need to tell you about a story that's not getting enough attention today,

00:01:40.780 and that is America's possible military action against Cuba.

00:01:45.700 Yes, just when you were getting tired of hearing about Iran,

00:01:49.780 enter Cuba to possibly take center stage in our foreign excursions.

00:01:55.020 We told you about it in AM Update this morning,

00:01:57.140 but for those who did not get a chance to listen or would like a more full discussion,

00:02:01.520 a story by Axios over the weekend really caught our eye.

00:02:05.400 The headline reads,

00:02:06.660 exclusive U.S. eyes attack drone threat from Cuba, a threat from Cuba, which is basically

00:02:18.620 completely imploding and not in a position to threaten anybody. But this is what they're going

00:02:25.020 with. The story says the reporter got exclusive access to U.S. intelligence, indicating Cuba

00:02:32.140 has obtained more than 300 military drones, 300 military drones. It goes on to say that leaders

00:02:39.460 of the island nation have had discussions about attacking the U.S. military base at Guantanamo

00:02:44.300 Bay, U.S. military vessels, and maybe even Key West, Florida. Yes, while they night after night

00:02:51.320 cannot even keep the lights on or the ICU units in their hospitals powered, literally losing power

00:03:01.220 on their ventilators of babies, they're thinking about bombing us. That's what Axios wants you to

00:03:07.800 believe. And I'm not blaming just Axios. It's our government clearly leaking to Axios. Axios,

00:03:13.240 time and time again, has come out with exclusives from the U.S. government, letting us know that

00:03:20.560 the Iran war is about to settle. It's over. They've basically reached a deal. It's being

00:03:25.520 paper now. We're about to get great news. Did it happen? I was I was at a tennis tournament all

00:03:31.700 weekend. Did we settle the Iran war? I don't I feel like we didn't. So that's unfortunate. But

00:03:36.720 it's also unfortunate for Axios that it continues to allow itself to be used in this manner,

00:03:40.720 because typically as a reporter, you have an obligation to your audience to maintain a healthy 1.00

00:03:45.520 sense of skepticism, especially when you are obviously being fed a bunch of bullshit. Cuba 1.00

00:03:52.860 is not about to attack us. These are lies. Okay. We can make, we can have a good faith debate about

00:04:01.800 whether we want to swoop in and rescue Cuba from the conditions we've helped impose on Cuba

00:04:07.880 and be really clear-eyed about why we've done what we've done and why we think they need us.

00:04:14.200 But let's please do it honestly. Let's not pretend that Cuba is about to attack us. Okay. Like this

00:04:19.060 is an insult to our intelligence. They literally cannot keep the lights on down there as they're

00:04:24.780 dealing with extreme fuel shortages because America has cut off the oil shipments that Cuba

00:04:32.240 relies upon from Venezuela. All right. The fall of Venezuela or its leadership was the death knell

00:04:39.140 to Cuba. When we swooped down and we got Nicolas Maduro in a daring military operation back in

00:04:44.220 January, that was kind of the end of Cuba, which had been hanging by a thread. And now they have

00:04:51.140 no oil. And so they have no power. They have no way of turning on their lights for some 23 out of

00:04:56.740 the 24 hours of the day. So there is, Cuba's not contemplating an attack on America. Stop, stop.

00:05:05.120 Don't insult our intelligence. Be honest. Tell us what we're fucking doing. It's just whatever.

00:05:11.540 OK, so are we are we planning an attack on them? We don't know. We're not sure. Even Axios had the, thank God, like the sense of self-preservation enough to describe its own reporting as a possible, quote, pretext to U.S. military action.

00:05:31.580 Thank you. Thank you for that access. It's like, here's a bunch of spoon fed bullshit we've been given. I'm going to put in one line about what we actually think is going on here. They're using this as a pretext to U.S. military action so that they can then turn around and be like, we said it was protectual. Right. You gave your audience absolutely no context for all the bullshit you just heaped upon them.

00:05:53.520 You just wanted the exclusive. You want to be patted on the head by whatever administration official is giving you these exclusives. 0.98

00:06:00.320 You want clicks and therefore you refuse to actually offer context for your audience so they are to know what's real and what's not.

00:06:07.200 Shame on you. OK, it's not just Trump's government. All the governments try to mislead the press.

00:06:12.460 This is not a new invention. It's the press's obligation to be skeptical, sniff through it and protect their audience,

00:06:21.240 to protect their audience from bullshit. 0.96

00:06:23.620 You don't have to make an affirmative determination. 1.00

00:06:25.220 It's bullshit. 0.97

00:06:25.940 But you do have to include the facts around the information you've been given 0.99

00:06:30.320 so that your audience can make up its own mind.

00:06:34.120 There is a fair amount of evidence that we are about to engage

00:06:38.800 in some sort of military action against Cuba.

00:06:41.660 CIA Director John Ratcliffe made a visit there last Thursday

00:06:45.380 and warned that the Trump administration would, quote,

00:06:47.480 quote, seriously engage with the country's government, but, quote, only if it makes

00:06:53.140 fundamental changes. What does that mean? Leadership? We want regime change before we'll

00:07:00.760 swoop in to rescue them? The New York Times also reporting that Ratcliffe demanded Cuba shut down

00:07:07.120 China's and Russia's alleged intelligence posts on the island. Okay, that may very well be the case. 0.99

00:07:15.780 I mean, certainly wouldn't be surprised at all to see these two, you know, socialist and communist nations having some sort of a foothold on the island of Cuba, which is communist, that we don't like some sort of intel post.

00:07:29.020 Though I do think it's curious.

00:07:30.580 This is what we weren't hearing about that.

00:07:34.080 Didn't hear about that from Trump or others who are sort of slowly making the case for some sort of interference in Cuba at all.

00:07:40.820 This seems to be an 11th hour possible justification because it's the first we're really hearing them mention all the the intelligence posts from our two main adversaries, China and Russia.

00:07:52.080 You know, U.S. has got to do something. Can't be a bunch of stooges.

00:07:55.840 There are more signs of U.S. action against Cuba, too, in addition to the ones that we just went through, including reports that the DOJ is now contemplating indicting former Cuba leader Raul Castro.

00:08:06.720 Does this sound familiar? Does this sound like a playbook you're familiar with?

00:08:11.680 Obviously, they could use this as another justification for a Maduro-like raid to take Castro into custody, even though he's no longer in power there.

00:08:21.280 But what the hell?

00:08:23.120 Aren't the Castros always in power in Cuba? 0.62

00:08:25.420 If you think I'm exaggerating things, like maybe we don't have designs on Cuba, don't trust me.

00:08:31.000 Listen to President Trump and what he said himself.

00:08:33.400 Cuba is ready to fall.

00:08:34.980 Yes. 0.87

00:08:35.700 It's a failed nation. 1.00

00:08:37.100 You know, all my life I've been hearing about the United States and Cuba. 0.98

00:08:40.820 When will the United States do it? I do believe I'll be the honor of having the honor of taking Cuba.

00:08:49.020 I think I can do anything I want with it. You want to know the truth.

00:08:51.580 Cuba's Spanish have a bad regime. They have very bad and corrupt leadership. 1.00

00:08:56.860 And it may be a friendly takeover. It may not be a friendly takeover. It wouldn't matter.

00:09:01.880 Cuba's a failed nation. Cuba also wants to make a deal. And I think we will pretty soon either make a deal or do whatever we have to do. And so we're talking to Cuba, but we're going to do Iran before Cuba. 0.59

00:09:17.440 We're going to do Iran before Cuba. And here's one of the president's favorite foreign policy surrogates these days, Iran war cheerleader, Senator Lindsey Graham, speaking about Cuba. Watch.

00:09:30.200 Cuba's next.

00:09:31.460 They're going to fall.

00:09:32.380 This communist dictatorship in Cuba, their days are numbered.

00:09:35.800 Cuba is on death watch.

00:09:37.660 It's just a matter of time, and I mean a short time.

00:09:40.440 To the people of Cuba, help is on the way.

00:09:42.780 You just wait for Cuba.

00:09:44.780 Their days are numbered. 0.99

00:09:46.280 You see this hat? 0.99

00:09:47.820 Free Cuba. 0.86

00:09:48.900 Stay tuned. 0.86

00:09:49.880 The liberation of Cuba is upon us.

00:09:52.180 It's just a matter of time now.

00:09:54.180 You see this hat? 1.00

00:09:55.500 Make Iran great.

00:09:56.820 We're marching through the world.

00:09:58.260 We're cleaning out the bad guys. This is Ronald Reagan Plus. Iran is going down and Cuba is next.

00:10:06.200 Marching through the world and cleaning out the bad guys. I mean, we're going to be really busy, 0.98

00:10:10.520 super busy. There's a lot of bad guys out there. Just how many of them are we going to get rid of

00:10:15.060 and with what money? Joining me now for reaction is Ryan Grimm, co-host of Breaking Points,

00:10:21.100 who recently visited Cuba, along with Kurt Mills, who's executive director of the American

00:10:26.700 conservative. Our sponsor, the Electronic Payments Coalition, says Washington politicians are always

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00:11:15.440 and consider telling Congress to guard your card. Ryan Kurt, welcome. Great to see you both.

00:11:21.900 So, Ryan, I'll start with you as somebody who was just recently down there.

00:11:25.400 Your thoughts on the liberation of Cuba, as Senator Graham put it.

00:11:31.060 Your description is accurate.

00:11:33.260 And not only did we cut off Venezuelan oil from getting to Cuba, Trump also basically

00:11:41.220 told every other country that they were not allowed to send any oil to Cuba.

00:11:44.620 They told Mexico and couldn't send oil for Cuba to purchase.

00:11:48.780 We're not talking about like charitable oil tankers that were just going to Havana.

00:11:52.680 We're talking about commercial transactions that the Cuban government had already entered

00:11:56.620 into.

00:11:57.160 There was one tanker that Russia sent to Cuba, and as it got close and under pressure, Trump

00:12:04.680 said, OK, this one can get through.

00:12:06.960 So in five months or so, one shipment of oil has gotten to Cuba.

00:12:12.960 And because it's been under sanctions for many decades, but very tight sanctions since

00:12:17.740 2019, which were implemented by Trump, but then extended by Biden, their electrical grid is 0.97

00:12:25.420 trash. Like they haven't been able to get the equipment because they're under sanctions to

00:12:30.460 upgrade that grid. And so even as they've actually pretty rapidly accelerated to clean energy, I

00:12:36.300 think they're at 20% renewable because they understood like, oh, we're on an island and

00:12:40.900 they're increasingly going to choke off our access to oil from offshore. So we need to ramp this up.

00:12:47.740 With the grid in such disrepair, they have consistent, as you said, blackouts across the entire island.

00:12:56.620 And so the idea that they're going to launch some preemptive attack on the United States of America is, yeah, it's barely even an insult to our intelligence.

00:13:07.300 It almost doesn't even rise to that level.

00:13:10.040 It's so insulting.

00:13:12.380 It's fine.

00:13:13.220 The American people can make up their minds about whether they're in favor of this or not. 0.89

00:13:16.940 It's not the same situation as Iran. It's got a whole other different list of issues around it.

00:13:22.760 But don't lie to us and tell us they were about to accuse, attack us.

00:13:26.020 I mean, it's a joke, Kurt, to suggest that Cuba lying there in the dark,

00:13:31.520 watching its elderly and its babies die on ventilators that they can no longer power is like,

00:13:36.480 hmm, how can we how can we attack the world's greatest superpower that in like 24 hours put 0.98

00:13:43.680 every Iranian ship at the bottom of the ocean. That's that is not a thing that's happening. 0.96

00:13:48.340 Yeah. I mean, look, I think we've seen two things here. Number one, we've seen these sort of intel

00:13:52.560 elements, the intel community and hawkish elements of the administration leaked to the media

00:13:57.780 and that never apologized when they issued correction. We saw this with the so-called

00:14:02.560 Taliban bounty story in 2020. So I have no idea about the veracity of this. It's very possible

00:14:09.140 that one colonel in some part of the Cuban military is plotting, you know, something.

00:14:14.900 It doesn't mean there's actually a plan.

00:14:16.740 And then secondly, you know, it doesn't quite say it in the report, but I think there is 0.76

00:14:21.460 an implicit case building to link Cuba to Iran, because, of course, who is the world's

00:14:28.140 probably preeminent manufacturer of drones at this point?

00:14:30.860 Of course, the Iranian Shahid drone.

00:14:32.760 So there's going to be some article, I would assume, forthcoming that says, you know, the 0.91

00:14:37.800 Iranians are somehow going to, you know, get around a double blockade and ship Shahed drones 0.89

00:14:42.600 to Cuba. It is the kind of thing that sort of sets the pretext for war. It doesn't really, 0.95

00:14:48.560 really matter. I think it's pretty clear that Marco Rubio's State Department and elements of

00:14:53.500 the administration and elements of the Hill, Lindsey Graham, as you featured there,

00:14:57.520 wanted to take Cuba no matter what. And so there's just a sort of fake casus belli that's

00:15:02.800 being cooked up okay but here's what i don't understand what does it mean to take cuba like

00:15:08.560 yeah we're gonna get it it's gonna be ours it's gonna be a 51st state i mean trump's trump's not

00:15:14.480 wrong what he says it's beautiful it's a beautiful island he was saying this the other day like

00:15:18.140 it's absolutely stunning it's gorgeous the people who've been there brian you among them say that

00:15:23.320 it's like time travel you know because we've had the embargo on them for so long that they've still

00:15:27.040 got like, you know, cars that you'd see on American streets in like 1959 and the colorful

00:15:33.100 pastels of the homes and the cars. And, you know, it's very, very charming, but it's a mess. It's

00:15:38.640 been a mess for a long time. We definitely put a crescendo on the mess with Venezuela and our 1.00

00:15:45.040 embargo. And so as somebody who doesn't know that much about Cuba, Ryan, me, can you explain like,

00:15:51.440 was the old plan to just drive them to collapse economically with our embargo, et cetera, and

00:15:56.580 that they'd then come begging us for help? Like, why now is it morphed into, as that's starting to

00:16:02.780 work, why is it now morphed into, oh, and by the way, they're about to attack us. So, of course,

00:16:07.740 we're going to have no chance but to attack them. And let's unleash the Maduro plan on them 0.81

00:16:11.300 and like every single thing. It's an interesting question of what it means to actually take Cuba

00:16:17.660 because very similarly to how the United States and Israel have different interests when it comes

00:16:23.380 to Iran, kind of Miami Cuban expat community and the United States have somewhat different

00:16:29.780 interests when it comes to Cuba. You know, the U.S. has its own interests. They don't like having

00:16:34.340 a communist government in the hemisphere, but the U.S. government has actually had no better

00:16:40.100 country to cooperate with. People might not even realize this when it comes to, like,

00:16:44.980 drug interdiction in the Caribbean, or, you know, they actually have a good relationship when it

00:16:48.840 comes to um migration and you know deporting uh cuban migrants back to cuba uh what have you but

00:16:56.020 when it comes to kind of the miami cuban set like they they want revenge you know for the revolution

00:17:03.400 uh and and they want to take back uh different pieces of property that were expropriated what

00:17:11.240 60 70 years ago but what that looks like when it comes to governance is anybody's guess like

00:17:18.780 are we talking about like another Haiti here?

00:17:22.380 Because what's interesting is right now 0.87

00:17:23.440 there aren't really any guns

00:17:25.440 outside of the military in Cuba.

00:17:27.600 And so even as the situation there

00:17:30.420 has descended into a real dark moment,

00:17:35.080 like people are genuinely suffering there

00:17:36.740 as you alluded to at the beginning,

00:17:39.820 it isn't that violent a place.

00:17:41.740 It's not a failed state.

00:17:42.780 And it feels like what many in South Florida want

00:17:46.040 is just a failed state.

00:17:48.120 And there are tons of guns in the United States, in Jamaica, in Haiti. It wouldn't be that difficult in Mexico. It wouldn't be that difficult for all of a sudden Cuba to be flooded with weapons.

00:17:59.560 uh and then you've got uh and then you've got a complete failed state which then becomes a hub 0.54

00:18:06.040 for narco traffickers um which uh has the obvious knock-on effects of you know hundreds of you know

00:18:13.620 probably millions of migrants hundreds of thousands dying uh many of those dying violently uh there's

00:18:19.740 there's really no alternative presented for how you know for like how it's going to be taken and 0.90

00:18:25.740 then I guess run as a colony or something or a 52nd 53rd state so it is it is a really good

00:18:31.420 question and it's not one that's that's remotely being discussed it's like okay you think they're

00:18:37.200 bad they have 300 drones also do you think Iran at this moment is exporting drones if you're Iran

00:18:42.760 and somebody's got an order for drones I think I think you're holding on to those for the moment

00:18:46.960 like I cannot imagine those are getting out and secondly also in the article the article itself

00:18:53.220 says that the U.S. intelligence community assesses that Cuba is preparing to counterattack

00:18:59.640 if the U.S. attacks them, which is a completely different thing than the headline and lead

00:19:06.060 says.

00:19:06.400 So even their own article undercuts the headline.

00:19:12.020 So what do you, I mean, I'm trying to think of the Trump administration's position here,

00:19:16.700 Kurt, because now that we've got, it's almost like the dog catching the bumper, right?

00:19:21.300 Like, we're getting what we wanted. They're collapsing economically. And they do need help. And Trump can't allow Russia or China to be the help. Like, I'm with him on all that. Like, it's not good for us to have Russia or China swoop in and take over Cuba. We absolutely can't have that. So it does have to be us.

00:19:43.060 But it's almost like we didn't we didn't either think it through or we're just not sharing with the American public what we've thought through.

00:19:50.500 The plan would be when the thing we worked to make happen finally happened, which is the economic implosion of Cuba.

00:19:58.720 Yeah, I mean, this is where I think you see a breakdown between the Trump alliance with the neocons and the hawks.

00:20:04.000 Trump wants one thing, which is headlines, attention, big moves.

00:20:09.840 Recall the Venezuela episode.

00:20:11.940 Nicolas Maduro, the former president, or I guess he claims the current, still be the president.

00:20:16.540 President of the time, Nicolas Maduro, basically gave Trump the godfather offer in 2025.

00:20:21.420 He said, you can have my country, you can have my resources.

00:20:24.320 And Trump still abducted him.

00:20:26.320 And I think that tells you what Trump wants is the big, splashy visage of a victory. 0.95

00:20:33.040 What the Grahams, and particularly the Rubios of the world, want is quite different. 0.79

00:20:38.200 They're willing to partner with him. 0.98

00:20:39.500 but they want ideological change in this country and or revenge.

00:20:43.720 And I think that's pretty different. 0.71

00:20:46.080 And I think with Cuba, we may see the Venezuela model kind of collapse

00:20:49.940 because in Venezuela, Rubio and Graham actually didn't get everything they wanted.

00:20:54.200 They replaced Maduro with Machado and the regime remains intact.

00:20:58.660 And even for the more nationalist elements of Trump's coalition,

00:21:01.980 who, you know, claim to say we should be kicking China or Russia out of the region,

00:21:07.480 It's not entirely clear, particularly with China, that that even happened in Venezuela and that this would happen here.

00:21:13.540 Now, the flip side is if they went full bore, then I think you could see the catastrophe.

00:21:18.500 And I think it was pretty telling over the weekend that Robert Gates, who's a pretty careful establishmentarian type in Washington, 0.77

00:21:26.460 he signaled that he thought there could be a refugee crisis if they collapse Cuba. 0.94

00:21:30.560 I thought that was actually pretty extraordinary.

00:21:32.880 Gates doesn't usually, although he's a realist, plunge into that type of rhetoric.

00:21:36.440 And that tells you there's probably great disquiet about this operation. Cuba is a lot closer to Venezuela than the United States. And if something goes wrong, that's our problem in two seconds.

00:21:46.880 Well, that's an interesting that's a very interesting political problem if it happens, because traditionally what we've seen in America is Democrats want open borders and want as many, you know, immigrants from these southern countries coming across the border as possible.

00:22:05.020 Republicans don't, except when it comes to Cuba.

00:22:08.100 Republicans are like, oh, actually, increasing Cuban immigration is fine because they tend to be more conservative.

00:22:13.820 They're more like the Marco Rubio types who are like sick of what happened to Cuba.

00:22:17.860 But they're definitely conservative.

00:22:19.420 They're culturally conservative and they tend to vote Republican.

00:22:21.860 And then you get the Democrats objecting to too much immigration from Cuba.

00:22:25.440 So it would actually raise a very interesting political question of who what's the position going to be like.

00:22:33.160 Are Republicans going to back a flux of immigrants or refugees, which they've totally been against from any other country except now from Cuba?

00:22:42.800 You know, and I don't know. It's going to force a lot of people to reevaluate earlier positions or probably not. Who am I kidding? They don't care about consistency. Go ahead.

00:22:50.260 One other quick point, just because I don't think this gets discussed enough. One thing I learned while I was in Cuba talking to interviewing top officials there is that they are absolutely wide open to basically whatever the United States wants in negotiations.

00:23:04.560 sanctions uh they're open to you know they're they're open to you know talking about political

00:23:09.320 reforms they're not gonna you know uh they're not gonna say that they're going to do it under

00:23:13.740 pressure but their argument is if you lift the sanctions if you normalize relations with us

00:23:18.920 we will allow u.s direct investment well u.s companies can come in here top official even

00:23:23.960 said they're they're open to exploring you you know the united states is upset about nationalized

00:23:28.400 property let's talk about compensation for that we like they're they're they're wide open to

00:23:33.260 whatever it is that the that the u.s is claiming are are its problems and what they have consistently

00:23:39.880 said is when it comes to political reforms with the with the kind of boot of sanctions on their

00:23:45.300 neck there's very little room to maneuver and if if you can get the kind of threat of an invasion

00:23:51.760 off of you then there's a there's actually a lot more space uh where the united states could see

00:23:57.920 if if those were their actual objectives but that's where we get back to there being kind of

00:24:02.820 twin camps here. Is it the U.S. that is driving the policy here, or is it this kind of Miami-Cuban

00:24:08.940 lobby that has outsized power? This is key. I mean, listen to what Ryan just said. The nationalist

00:24:15.400 objectives, just like with Venezuela, have already been achieved. Cuba has basically capitulated. So

00:24:20.300 if that is the goal of the United States, it can already be done with soft power. And you might see,

00:24:25.740 you know, for instance, take a country like Vietnam, China rules like that in their region.

00:24:29.900 They exert sort of Death Star influence over the country, but they don't actually invade

00:24:34.280 or haven't invaded since the 70s.

00:24:36.320 And so, you know, what we don't get with that arrangement, though, is for Trump, you don't

00:24:41.740 get the headline and for the neocons, you don't get the ideology and or revenge.

00:24:46.600 So it's completely unattractive to the leading cadre within the administration right now,

00:24:51.800 even though it satisfies the putative ideological objective of the administration.

00:24:58.000 Well, Ryan, when you say that they're willing to do that, who's they?

00:25:01.240 Like the current Cuban regime?

00:25:03.220 And is it really effectively still a Castro regime, even though not actually a name?

00:25:08.940 Yes, the Cuban government has said, you know, effectively with one voice that they're wide

00:25:13.940 open to putting all of these things on the table in discussions with the U.S.

00:25:19.780 And they say that on the record.

00:25:21.480 uh Castro Raul Castro is 95 uh and so if they do go in and capture him like you know they

00:25:27.980 this delta force is gonna have to be very careful like this 95 that's that's an old guy um he is

00:25:35.200 still influential you know because he's because of who he is um but so but and so but he he himself

00:25:43.280 is the one that entered in you know his legacy was actually opening up a normalization with the

00:25:50.240 united states in the in the 2010s and so he is he's very much supportive of of that project like

00:25:57.160 they they really want to move there was a period under obama where you could travel to cuba beyonce

00:26:02.000 and jay-z did it and then that closed and we and marco rubio was very against that i remember that

00:26:07.620 and we really he was much more on board with the no we shouldn't be doing anything to help cuba

00:26:13.860 right now we actually are doing a boot on the neck policy for good that i mean his strong belief has

00:26:19.180 been this is a communist, brutal regime that should be brought down. We should do whatever

00:26:25.500 is within our power to bring them down so that possibly we can get Cuba to a better place where

00:26:30.700 it's people can live free and people who've had to flee could potentially go back home. And

00:26:34.900 is there any sort of outcome that could look like that, Ryan?

00:26:39.200 Yes, but not one that involves, you know, I guess, you know, sending in Americans to occupy it

00:26:44.600 Or kind of empowering the elements in Miami that just want revenge.

00:26:50.700 Because then it's going to lead to just bloodletting in a failed state.

00:26:55.020 But there is absolutely a place.

00:26:57.020 Like right now, under Cuban law, anybody who has Cuban descent living in Miami is allowed to buy property there.

00:27:04.680 Like they are trying to open up.

00:27:08.860 It is the United States that is still, I guess, you know, simmering about the Cold War and the fact they couldn't assassinate Castro all these different times.

00:27:18.240 It's like it really it's no longer rational.

00:27:21.020 It's like it's really kind of an emotional lashing out.

00:27:23.940 But isn't it that you tell me because I'm not an expert on this at all, but isn't it more isn't it rational because the whole point is to cause what's happening now?

00:27:32.640 We don't want American investment there.

00:27:34.340 We don't want anything that's going to make life better in Cuba yet is we're playing the long game.

00:27:38.860 like so that's an interesting question so could could we starve the population of energy

00:27:46.820 such that they reach um complete collapse and catastrophe i think probably yes now it's taken

00:27:56.420 it's taken many decades there are there are protests that are that are flaring up right now

00:28:01.480 uh but there are there are people are genuinely also directing some of the out some of their

00:28:07.180 outrage at what is closest to them which is which is the government also in 2019 cuba really opened

00:28:12.420 up the internet a lot and so cubans now have access to like instagram and things like that

00:28:17.060 and that has created that you know the gap between how they're living and what they're seeing on on

00:28:21.140 social media has created a lot of resentment so there's there's genuine resentment that that you

00:28:25.440 know rubio wants to kind of drive the wedge into so could you could you eventually topple the

00:28:31.720 government by causing enough suffering among the cuban population possibly but but then what like

00:28:38.360 who like and to what advantage as kurt said all of the national goals that the u.s has

00:28:43.820 are achievable by the end of this week in negotiations with them anything we want we can

00:28:49.720 have it so what how many more babies and elderly people and and not just babies but people who have

00:28:55.360 diabetes who are otherwise healthy and we be otherwise living normal normal lives who are

00:29:00.700 going to die so that enough people get upset that they topple the government but then for what 0.91

00:29:05.780 to create a narco state 90 miles from from key west maybe like because who does that like who 0.85

00:29:13.020 does that serve like that serves our security there's no way the trump administration is going 0.91

00:29:16.540 to let that happen there's i i would never believe trump trump will not let that happen and we would 0.94

00:29:21.060 we will be their boots on the ground before we're going to let them turn into this narco rump state 0.92

00:29:24.840 right off of Key West. 0.98

00:29:26.780 That's not going to happen.

00:29:27.800 But how long would we occupy?

00:29:29.040 It's, I mean,

00:29:30.600 Yeah, I don't know.

00:29:31.900 Now we're back to the dog

00:29:32.980 catching the bumper

00:29:33.700 and what's the plan?

00:29:35.400 Just take the deal.

00:29:36.240 When Ryan was talking, Kurt,

00:29:37.780 it sounded to me very familiar

00:29:39.740 to what's happening in Iran right now

00:29:42.300 where we're really hoping

00:29:44.420 blockading the Iranian ports

00:29:46.280 is going to hurt the Iranians so much

00:29:48.560 and the Iranian economy so much 0.97

00:29:50.260 that they cry uncle. 0.66

00:29:51.640 um let's sort of we're kind of trying to do the same thing to them that we've been doing to cuba

00:29:58.500 and in both situations it sounds like certainly in iran uh we had a group of people who were

00:30:05.160 willing to talk to us across the table about striking a deal and reportedly was prepared to

00:30:10.560 give us most of the things we're now demanding that they give us we already had them in hand

00:30:16.380 or were about to have them in hand when we bombed them and according to ryan the cubans were

00:30:21.140 are kind of in the same position where they're willing to give us a bunch of things. But

00:30:23.980 is this other faction going to win out where we just go hardcore, like balls to the wall,

00:30:28.940 hardcore military, you know, blow things up. So we have total control of them. And, but in both

00:30:34.740 situations leading us with, and then what? Cause we're having trouble like getting kids educated

00:30:41.460 and repairing roads and keeping inner cities safe here in America. And we really are not in a

00:30:48.680 position to run Venezuela, Iran and Cuba. Yeah, look, I mean, the parallels are pretty striking

00:30:55.660 and the president's desire to launch into foreign affairs and do regime change wars where he said

00:31:02.900 he wouldn't instead of sort of investing in domestic renewal and the American heartland,

00:31:07.660 it remains striking. Iran is obviously a more formidable state than the Cuban state at this

00:31:13.500 point. That being said, the externalities of a Cuban failure, again, are much closer to the

00:31:19.640 United States. And so, you know, the risk is always there as it was with Venezuela. I think

00:31:26.460 fundamentally you see Trump have basically realist and dovish instincts, or at least that's what he

00:31:35.340 expresses in public and to the American people with the occasional extremely violent outbursts

00:31:41.760 accepted. And but he's always sort of turning himself or twisting himself into a pretzel to do

00:31:48.040 something different than Barack Obama is said to have done. And then, of course, he's always afraid

00:31:53.500 of offending his constituencies. And so this is where I think you see this sort of functional

00:31:58.300 breakdown in Trump's boss tweed style of political coalition management. I think it's very, very

00:32:05.620 necessary for Trump to sell himself as a Neo Buchananite or anti-war candidate. I think that's

00:32:12.780 how he got elected. He's not. But once in power, he's got to reward all these different constituencies.

00:32:19.180 To an extent, what a Rubio would do as president, I think, would potentially be more honest,

00:32:24.700 which is, you know, I am Cuban, George W. Bush. He wouldn't quite say that. But that's the pitch.

00:32:29.740 And then, you know, there would be an ideological brick by brick way of doing it. I think it would

00:32:34.320 be catastrophe. I don't think it can win. I think it'll be voted out. But Trump, by sort of putting

00:32:39.680 this potion together, is actually potent because there is a group of people that, you know, hold

00:32:46.600 out hope against hope that Trump will do something different. And in fairness, I will say, at least

00:32:52.060 at this point, maybe Trump changes his mind. He can always change his mind. And that is the sliver

00:32:58.040 of hope with both the Iranian and Cuban portfolios. And that is different than if Rubio was the

00:33:02.460 president. And that is different than if Bush was the president. I really just wish, you know,

00:33:07.780 the administration would do us the courtesy on Cuba of what they failed to do on Iran

00:33:12.560 and make the case. Tell me, you know, I'm a lawyer, but at heart, I'm really just a soulless

00:33:18.780 lawyer who wants to be persuaded with the best evidence, like put it in front of me and let me 0.99

00:33:23.820 make up my own mind instead of spoon feeding me a bunch of bullshit. Go ahead. You say you want 1.00

00:33:29.420 to hear the case and then they they tell you they've got 300 drones pointed at key west and 0.94

00:33:34.440 you're not satisfied with that so that you know they can't win crazy the no cases there's yellow

00:33:39.180 cake in the drones the incoherence is the key though because everybody it's a Rorschach test

00:33:44.480 if they actually like Trump like went to Congress and like explained what he thought

00:33:48.060 it would it would sound insane I mean we can see it on the true social and so like if he did his

00:33:53.700 Colin Powell moment if he did his sort of Dick Cheney meet the press moment it wouldn't make

00:33:57.820 any sense that's a key element here because people see what they want to see if they want

00:34:03.080 to support trump in these endeavors you don't think i feel like okay trump is not always his

00:34:08.140 most effective spokesman like his political instincts are second to none but he's not

00:34:12.400 always his best spokesman but marco rubio would be like send marco but it's different but he hasn't

00:34:17.760 done he's overrated he hasn't done that much better what is the first thing that rubio did

00:34:21.980 on that Monday. I was thinking about that. He said that we did it for Israel. So, I mean,

00:34:26.780 like the honesty is actually not politically useful for Trump because he has spun up this

00:34:33.000 scheme politically and it has to only he can keep it going, frankly.

00:34:38.660 OK, so we've solved nothing, but we are all concerned and I think we have every right to be.

00:34:47.380 We'll continue to follow. I don't think I think this is the beginning of another major story and

00:34:51.340 not a resolution it doesn't need to be solved because it already is solved like it's right

00:34:57.440 there for us to take we just have to tell miami calm down like you don't run the gun for me oh god

00:35:03.320 um on that note talk to you guys soon thank you for being here up next up next get it uh we've

00:35:11.600 got mark halperin i'd love to know what you guys think about cuba i mean it is in our hemisphere

00:35:15.140 if you follow the dawn road doctrine we definitely have to pay attention to what's happening in cuba

00:35:19.820 in this situation, it's a little different than Venezuela because we're causing what's happening

00:35:24.440 in Cuba. But now what? Right. That's what we were getting to with the guys. Now what is it? Does it

00:35:31.820 become a territory? Does it become a state? Are we responsible for it? Do we have to fuel it,

00:35:37.860 fund it, repair it? Who's going to be in charge when we do that? What happens to the existing

00:35:43.280 leaders who are, you know, communist? I don't know. I haven't heard the case made. I'm definitely

00:35:49.440 not buying any, we're going to have to go bomb them because of their 300 drones. But I would buy

00:35:55.300 the actual truth and make a smart decision based on it. So hopefully we'll get that in the coming

00:35:59.880 days. Okay. Mark Halpern is here to weigh in next. If your dog is scratching more than usual,

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00:37:11.760 We are turning to domestic politics now, the latest on crucial primaries in the 2026 midterms

00:37:19.540 and some brutal new polls for the Trump administration. Joining me now, Mark Halperin.

00:37:24.700 He's host of Next Up with Mark Halperin. It's a podcast as part of our MK Media podcast network.

00:37:29.840 You can go and subscribe right now, wherever you get your podcasts for free and on YouTube

00:37:35.680 as well. Mark, welcome back. Great to see you. Thank you. I want to know if Cuba will have

00:37:39.380 democratic or republican senators i mean any idea where that one's going i mean probably

00:37:46.740 democrats since it's a socialist country but um i just want to buy a condo that's my main focus

00:37:53.040 are we gonna invade cuba like i think they're gonna settle that sure is happening i think

00:37:59.320 they'll settle what's next up mark i think they'll broker a deal i think uh there are people in the

00:38:03.680 government who are ready to uh have some sort of accord with the united states and give up their

00:38:08.280 ties to communist regimes and see if their economy can't be saved by being a satellite associate.

00:38:15.580 Yes. Okay. And don't let anybody call you a rump state. No one wants to be a rump state.

00:38:20.280 Do whatever is possible to avoid the rump designation. Totally agree.

00:38:25.140 Okay. So there's a lot happening in the world of politics right now. Senator Cassidy went down

00:38:31.640 in the GOP primary, Republican senator from Louisiana.

00:38:36.280 Very interesting because he'd been in office 12 years,

00:38:39.600 but he voted against Trump on the second impeachment,

00:38:43.660 the one that was based on the January 6th riot.

00:38:47.540 And since then, though,

00:38:49.360 like Trump hasn't spent the whole time

00:38:51.300 railing against Cassidy.

00:38:53.320 He was very annoying.

00:38:54.980 He's the only senator I've ever asked my audience to call.

00:38:58.620 I've never said that to my audience. 0.71

00:38:59.880 We don't really do campaigns on this show, but he was trying to block RFKJ, who we really

00:39:05.800 thought was important to the change that we wanted to see in the health and services department

00:39:10.180 and Maha, and he has been, and Kennedy did wind up doing the right thing on RFKJ and

00:39:16.100 voting for him, but then he went on to become a thorn in the side and kind of a prick and

00:39:20.320 really thought he was in control.

00:39:21.980 His cross-examinations of RFKJ have been annoying, and then he just blocked Casey Means

00:39:26.540 from becoming the Surgeon General,

00:39:28.180 which, like, the Surgeon General,

00:39:29.500 I mean, to be honest, like, I love Casey,

00:39:30.980 but, like, it's really not that important a position.

00:39:33.340 It's somewhat important, but it's not like HHS.

00:39:36.580 So what did he do?

00:39:38.300 I mean, was it the impeachment thing?

00:39:39.940 Has Trump just been lying to wait for him all this time?

00:39:41.860 Yeah, I mean, the president's good at picking his spots

00:39:44.040 and went after him when he could take him out

00:39:47.180 and send a message.

00:39:48.280 The president likes, he forgives people all the time,

00:39:51.000 but there's some things he can't forgive,

00:39:52.600 and he does understand the importance

00:39:56.200 in politics and hardball professions of setting examples and sending signals to folks.

00:40:02.240 And the folks around him, people like Chris LaCivita and the White House political director,

00:40:09.500 they're tough. They take no prisoners. And when they see someone cross them,

00:40:15.820 they write it down in a little book. And when the time comes, they go after him.

00:40:19.740 And Cassidy lost his job for one reason or one reason only, Donald Trump.

00:40:22.740 Yeah. Well, I mean, you hear, you know, places like NPR this morning, like, oh, my God, just like Donald Trump's hold on the party, you know, after what happened with those Indiana state lawmakers who wouldn't change the redistricting rules.

00:40:38.360 And Trump basically offered up his own slate of people who could replace them.

00:40:43.260 And the Indiana voters were like, we accept.

00:40:45.740 They went with Trump's preferred lawmakers at the state level because these guys crossed Trump.

00:40:51.560 Trump wouldn't have it.

00:40:52.340 He fought back in Indiana.

00:40:53.320 He will fight back.

00:40:54.220 It doesn't like he will.

00:40:55.240 He will mess with an Indiana state representatives race.

00:40:57.780 He will mess with the Senate, U.S. Senate.

00:40:59.620 He will certainly mess with a House of member of the House of Congress, like as we're seeing in Thomas Massey, Lauren Boebert.

00:41:08.760 Trump's getting involved in that. But they're very upset over NPR that he's got such a hold on the party.

00:41:13.000 But he has for some time. It's his party. And there's no evidence of that weakening. Is there virtually none?

00:41:20.920 Again, the voters get to decide, but Trump gets Donald Trump gets to tell the voters what he'd like them to do.

00:41:25.800 and within the confines of Republican primaries, they generally do what Donald Trump says.

00:41:30.680 He's almost never lost. Part of why I think he hasn't endorsed in the Texas Senate runoff

00:41:35.440 is because he doesn't want to blemish his record, because if he tells folks to vote for John

00:41:40.180 Cornyn, that may not happen. So he knows how to pick his spots. And in this case,

00:41:44.500 he found a candidate who he thought could be Senator Cassidy, and he was right. And I suspect

00:41:50.740 It'll same thing will happen in Kentucky tomorrow with Thomas Massey.

00:41:54.720 The president has has no use for Thomas Massey and Chris Lasavita.

00:41:58.900 Again, one of the president's political advisers is an open book on X for a long time saying that this guy's got to go and they know how to do it.

00:42:07.120 They know how to do politics.

00:42:07.880 I understand why people might find it not dainty or not not to their liking, particularly NPR.

00:42:15.860 But he but he has he's got a hold on the party and he uses it when he wants to.

00:42:21.260 When you think Trump, you think dainty.

00:42:23.600 Exactly.

00:42:23.840 Yeah.

00:42:24.200 But I mean, I don't remember NPR being upset when Joe Biden's people called around and

00:42:28.100 threatened members of Congress who had to marry to say that the president had lost a

00:42:31.700 step or two.

00:42:32.860 You know, this is what presidents do.

00:42:34.300 They play hardball because they didn't run for the office to be nice to everybody and

00:42:38.660 let people walk all over them.

00:42:40.120 They play hardball, whether it's Donald Trump or Joe Biden or anybody else I've ever covered

00:42:44.080 in the job.

00:42:45.140 Well, and Trump's got enough to deal with with dissenting Democrats.

00:42:49.340 He really can't have any defections on Team Red.

00:42:52.340 And that's the message he's sending.

00:42:53.540 Like, you defect, and you're going to get it.

00:42:55.220 And these guys are in the business of politics.

00:42:57.020 So, you know, welcome to politics.

00:42:59.700 Let's talk about Massey, because that one, I think, is a lot more emotional for people.

00:43:04.500 I'm not sure anybody really cares about Senator Cassidy, to be honest, with all due respect.

00:43:08.240 But I think they do care about Massey.

00:43:10.740 How much have we heard about this race?

00:43:13.580 Now, I'll tell you where I am on it.

00:43:15.120 he's a detractor of Trump's, for sure.

00:43:19.240 He's been, he's dissented on a lot of Trump's agenda.

00:43:22.440 But I've been watching,

00:43:24.800 and personally, I have no problem with that.

00:43:26.700 Like, okay, he's allowed to dissent from Trump,

00:43:29.500 but then don't be surprised when Trump unleashes on you.

00:43:32.300 Don't be surprised when Trump tries to primary you.

00:43:34.300 Like, that's, again, politics.

00:43:36.220 But I am somewhat turned off

00:43:39.240 by the amount of, like, AIPAC money

00:43:41.920 and, like, the pro-Israel crowd

00:43:44.340 has decided to make Thomas Massey suffer

00:43:46.420 because he's against any foreign entanglements.

00:43:49.900 I mean, he's really opposed to virtually every single dollar

00:43:52.600 that we spend on foreign aid.

00:43:54.740 He's not into it. 0.91

00:43:55.600 He wants, he's an America only guy,

00:43:57.680 not even an America first guy. 0.97

00:43:59.600 And for this, Israel has chosen to make him suffer 0.82

00:44:02.060 or it's like supporters here in America. 0.86

00:44:04.280 And I just find it such a turnoff,

00:44:06.180 the amount of money that Miriam Adelson 0.98

00:44:07.820 has dumped into this race. 0.93

00:44:09.880 And so I do think that there's a faction of Republican voters

00:44:13.920 and probably some Democrat voters, too, who don't want to see him go down because we don't want I

00:44:19.220 don't want AIPAC controlling our elections and I don't want care controlling our elections.

00:44:23.480 You know, I don't want these elections determined on what's good for Israel or what's good for

00:44:29.480 Muslims abroad. It should be about America. So it's annoying. But I'm not surprised to see Trump 0.62

00:44:35.480 unleashing all the stops against him, because even before the Israel thing was taking front

00:44:39.580 center stage. Trump hated him like he's been voting against Trump. Right. So you're absolutely

00:44:45.420 right that Massey is different than Cassidy in the respect you said, which is there are people

00:44:50.680 who are passionate about Massey, not just in his district, but all over the country, because he has

00:44:54.880 a certain strand of MAGA who really likes him, who likes to stand on foreign interventions,

00:45:00.320 who likes what he's done with Ro Khanna on the Epstein stuff. So he's got a big following.

00:45:05.600 but and and there's you're right that APEC's putting a lot of money but I'll say if Massey

00:45:10.760 loses it'll be for the same reason Cassidy lost Donald Trump the the money that's been put in by

00:45:16.220 pro-Israel forces I don't think is dispositive I think he'll win or lose based on what the

00:45:21.560 president and his team have mobilized every every dollar matters but there's money on both sides in

00:45:26.520 this race and Massey's got got support also from people who you you wouldn't necessarily want to

00:45:32.080 quote-unquote, as you said, control. But the control here is to the voters, and the voters

00:45:36.300 get to decide if Massey gets reelected or not. And again, I think if he loses, and I think he

00:45:40.440 probably will, it's almost entirely because Donald Trump wills it to be so, and the party follows

00:45:46.120 Donald Trump on most everything. He's making the case that it is the Israel money. This is what he

00:45:52.240 said to ABCs this week, yesterday, SOP 10. Well, you've actually said this week that

00:45:58.120 this, that your vote is a referendum on whether Israel gets to buy seats in Congress. What did

00:46:05.040 you mean by that? Well, the RJC, AIPAC and Miriam Adelson and Paul Singer, they're all part of the

00:46:12.240 Israeli lobby and that's where all the money comes from. And it, it will be a referendum on foreign 0.82

00:46:17.600 policy, whether Israel gets to dictate that by, you know, bullying members of Congress. And I'm 0.67

00:46:23.900 the one they haven't been able to bully. So they're putting all the brunt, the force on me,

00:46:28.480 but you can tell that I'm ahead in the polls and they're desperate. That's why they're sending

00:46:32.660 the secretary of war to my district tomorrow. That's why the president's losing sleep and

00:46:37.960 tweeting about this. That's why AIPAC has dumped another $3 million into my race this weekend.

00:46:43.460 It's because they're panicked and they really haven't been able to gain a lead in this race.

00:46:48.260 is he wrong mark well it's hard to know i mean bill cassidy on the morning of his primary was

00:46:54.680 confidently predicting he would win and he didn't make the runoff so i'm not sure we can credit him

00:46:59.640 for knowing that he's he's definitely going to win um it's it's certainly the race is either

00:47:04.800 close or up in the air enough that of course both sides are going to work hard at the end and put in

00:47:09.420 more money um so i don't i don't know that i don't know that he's right about the reasons why they're

00:47:14.300 doing it. They're doing it because they want to make sure that they beat him. In terms of who's

00:47:19.000 controlling it, again, the president did this. This is the president's doing. But no doubt that

00:47:25.060 people who want a more pro-Israel policy are spending big money in the race. And that is a

00:47:31.500 rallying cry now. It's talked about a lot, but I still don't think talked about enough or fully

00:47:36.000 understood, both on the left and the right in this country now, going after AIPAC, going after people

00:47:41.460 who support israel uh with a lot of uh a lot of energy um is popular in a lot of parts of the

00:47:48.280 country and you're going to see more of this in in the midterms and primaries in the general

00:47:52.380 election and you're going to see more of it in the 2028 race because this is for many americans

00:47:57.260 they want to they want a big change in what was a national consensus for a long period of time

00:48:01.680 over support for israel yeah yeah i think you have israel to thank for that here's what uh

00:48:07.360 Thomas Massey told Tucker on AIPAC's influence in our U.S. politics when he went on his show.

00:48:14.360 He's been on a few times. This is this one's from June 7th, 2024.

00:48:17.780 Well, I have Republicans who come to me on the floor and say, I wish I could vote with you today.

00:48:24.560 Yours is the right vote, but I would just take too much flack back home. And I have

00:48:30.800 Republicans who come to me and say, that's wrong what AIPAC is doing to you. Let me talk to my

00:48:36.740 aipac person by the way everybody but me has an aipac person what's that mean an aipac person

00:48:43.100 it's like your babysitter your aipac babysitter who uh is always talking to you for aipac they're

00:48:49.780 probably a constituent in your district but they are you know firmly embedded in aipac and every

00:48:57.700 member has something like this every i don't know how it works on the democrat side uh but that's

00:49:04.280 how it works on the republican side and when they and when they come to dc you go have lunch with

00:49:09.220 them and they've got your cell number and you have conversations with them so i've had like

00:49:15.300 that's absolutely crazy i've had four members of congress say i'll talk to my apac person

00:49:21.160 and it's clearly what we call them my back guy i'll talk to my apac guy and see if i can get

00:49:27.720 to you know dial those ads back why if i never heard this before it doesn't benefit anybody

00:49:34.280 why would they want to tell their constituents that they've basically got a buddy system

00:49:39.820 with somebody who's representing a foreign country does anyone have a putin guy that they

00:49:45.000 talk to not only do they not have a putin guy look they don't they they don't have a britain guy

00:49:52.320 They don't have an Australian guy. They, you know, they don't have a Germany dude. Like, it's the only country that does this.

00:50:03.120 So, Mark, to me, my takeaway in watching that is, you know, all the time I was at Fox 14 years plus absolutely zero downside in Republicans saying that they are walking in lockstep with Israel. 0.57

00:50:14.200 It was like nothing but good things can come from saying that back Israel 100 percent only in the past couple of years since Israel, you know, first defended itself in Gaza and then just went to the point where many people were using the term genocide and completely leveled Gaza.

00:50:31.960 And now it's leveling Beirut. Have they become far more controversial even in Republican politics to the point where Republicans under 50 don't support them? 0.64

00:50:39.300 So does the AIPAC guy continue on Team GOP or are we going to start to see whether it's at Massey's battle tomorrow or the actual midterms in November forward a change in all that?

00:50:53.860 Well, they they've already suffered some losses in both parties over the last few years.

00:51:00.020 And in Democratic primaries, they've not always gotten their way.

00:51:02.420 And sometimes they've completely bollocks it up and help someone who was even more anti-Israel win a primary.

00:51:07.600 So they're reevaluating how they do business. But they're up against a force bigger than just a bunch of Washington meetings and conference calls. They're up against a force of scrutiny of Israel's conduct that, again, on the left and on the right, has led to a really concerted effort to say anything APEC does is bad. No longer should it be evaluated on the merits. Anything they do is bad.

00:51:31.540 And they went for a long time as one of the most arrogant and entitled lobbies in Washington.

00:51:36.660 And they're paying a price for that now, along with the strong feelings about Israel's behavior.

00:51:41.480 And supporters of Israel are at a loss to know what to do.

00:51:44.640 They're constantly strategizing.

00:51:46.300 But they're up against some really, really powerful forces that, as I said, a bunch of meetings aren't going to solve.

00:51:52.320 Yeah.

00:51:52.980 All right, Mark, stand by.

00:51:54.040 We will be right back.

00:51:54.920 Mark stays with us.

00:51:56.600 Quick break first.

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00:52:57.000 back to what matters. Mark Halperin, host of Next Up with Mark Halperin, is back with me now.

00:53:06.860 So, Mark, what are you thinking? What are you thinking right now? I heard you on your show,

00:53:11.300 we played a clip, I don't know, two weeks ago, saying you were seeing a potential more than ever

00:53:18.500 for the Senate to go blue in these midterms. But since then, we've had redistricting wins,

00:53:27.000 on team red and i don't think the momentum's changed exactly the polls are still very bad

00:53:34.820 for republicans especially for trump but has anything changed your mind how are you looking

00:53:39.960 at the midterms as of today well in terms of the senate it's still race by race but if it were

00:53:43.920 today the republicans would lose the senate because the polls as you've said a couple times

00:53:48.320 are just a disaster so a lot of these races would fall to the democrats but with a little

00:53:53.660 stabilization, I think it still goes back to a big challenge for Democrats because they have to

00:53:58.380 basically run the table, hold three races, win three and then win one more. And right now, you

00:54:04.880 know, I look at Michigan where Democrats are poised to nominate someone who I think is basically

00:54:09.580 unelectable in Maine, where I think in the end Plattner will prove to be unelectable unless

00:54:14.620 I'm just really misreading the main electorate. And if those two go Republican, one would be a

00:54:20.060 Republican hold and one would be a Republican win, then then Republicans will hold the Senate.

00:54:25.280 But the environment has to change for that to happen. But it could. On the Republican side,

00:54:29.600 redistricting has made it less likely Democrats take majority, but they're still favored to. And

00:54:34.720 we'll have to see how many races end up actually being competitive. But Republicans have to fix

00:54:39.260 in the House. Republicans have to fix this environment problem. The president's approval

00:54:43.480 rating, how people feel about the economy, the price of gas. If they don't fix that,

00:54:47.340 It doesn't matter how much money they raise or how unpopular Democrats are, then they'll lose control of both chambers.

00:54:53.840 Because even though they've gained some 14 seats in the redistricting, you know, you could be looking at if you look at 2018, Republicans lost 40 House seats.

00:55:02.780 Like if the margins are that big and the approvals are that low, no redistricting is going to save them.

00:55:09.140 So they actually have to start addressing some of the concerns of the voters.

00:55:12.120 This just in, we've got a couple of polls.

00:55:14.300 None of them is good news for the Republicans, unfortunately.

00:55:18.760 But here's one from, let's see, pulling it up.

00:55:27.040 Brand new New York Times poll.

00:55:29.520 Dan Pfeiffer of Team Obama, biased, but says, for what it's worth, this poll points toward a shellacking for the GOP driven by Trump's putrid polls, an unpopular war with Iran, an anger about his economic policies.

00:55:43.240 But the reality in the crosstabs, he writes, is even worse. And here's why. And he goes through, like he says, he has an overall approval rating of 38 percent. But he says it's what what is happening with the voters who won him the 2024 election that is making this particular Democrat happy.

00:56:04.360 With Latino voters, he's underwater 51 points. With voters aged 18 to 29, young voters, he's underwater 57 points. With independents, he's underwater 43 points.

00:56:22.040 So in other words, that's the difference between his approval and disapproval.

00:56:26.140 The disapproval is much higher.

00:56:28.440 And those were votes that helped deliver him the White House, Mark.

00:56:31.780 We've seen this now in poll after poll.

00:56:33.860 We've even seen this with the white working class.

00:56:38.000 That's in a new poll today showing the white working class in yet another poll is now showing

00:56:43.680 an overall disapproval of President Trump.

00:56:47.500 This is CBS poll in February of 2025.

00:56:50.540 Trump with that group, white non-college voters, he had an approval rating of 68 percent and

00:56:58.180 disapproval of 32 percent. So he was plus 36 with them. In May this month, he has an approval rating

00:57:06.220 with this group of 46, disapproval now of 54. He's now underwater eight with them, eight,

00:57:14.420 which is a 44 point swing to the negative for Trump with the white working class, which is, without a doubt, Trump's base. 0.54

00:57:25.540 You know, one of the things I think so important in if you want to be on the national town square is to not hide from the truth.

00:57:31.400 If you're a huge Trump supporter and you think in general the polls are fake news, you should wise up because the results you just read of one poll match private Republican polling almost exactly in almost every case.

00:57:44.000 every poll is a little bit different, but the general numbers are the same. And that's why,

00:57:48.280 again, Republicans say, we got to fix the environment. We got to get our folks who

00:57:52.860 supported Trump in 2024 to feel better about the economy in particular. Until and unless that

00:57:59.920 happens, this will be a big wipeout. But there's a lot of time. And if Democrats, if Republicans

00:58:06.800 can get people feeling a little bit better, then they can execute their plan, which is to say to

00:58:11.780 folks, don't make this a referendum on Donald Trump. Make it a choice between two sides. And

00:58:16.380 the Democratic brand is as popular as a rat at a picnic. They're just not right now being held

00:58:23.740 accountable for that because there's so much focus, as is always the case, is on the incumbent

00:58:30.620 and people's very sour mood about the economy. Yeah. Yes. Staying with the CBS poll,

00:58:37.680 Listen to this. Is your income keeping up with inflation? Yes, it is. 23%. No, it isn't. 77%.

00:58:46.080 77% of the electorate says their income is not keeping up with inflation. That's dire.

00:58:54.520 Gas prices have been a financial hardship and difficult, an inconvenience but not difficult,

00:59:00.900 or your finances have not been affected.

00:59:04.080 59% say a hardship and difficult.

00:59:07.820 That's 60% of people basically saying,

00:59:09.980 no, it's been very tough for me.

00:59:12.040 Only 26% say inconvenient, but not difficult.

00:59:15.320 And only 15 say not affected.

00:59:17.420 It's not an issue for me.

00:59:19.680 This is interesting.

00:59:20.800 Are you getting a clear understanding

00:59:21.980 of the situation in the Strait of Hormuz? 0.99

00:59:25.100 69% say, I have no fucking clue 0.98

00:59:27.580 what's happening in the Strait of Hormuz. 0.98

00:59:28.820 I do not know.

00:59:29.960 The answer is no. Only 31% say yes. Let's see. How do you feel about the Trump administration's

00:59:37.980 approach to the economy? You've got, I've got to do math here, 40, 70% say they're either

00:59:47.480 frustrated or angry. How do you feel about Trump's approach to the economy? 70%. I am frustrated or

00:59:55.040 I'm angry. Only 30 percent say they're enthusiastic or satisfied, breaking down to 11 percent

01:00:03.300 enthusiastic, 19 percent satisfied. And the inflation numbers are the worst of all. Like

01:00:08.560 whenever you start asking the electorate at all about inflation, they all say that's the number

01:00:13.620 one thing they hate. And they're blaming Trump at this point. You know, the old it's Joe Biden

01:00:20.720 who created it, it's not working, especially because inflation was a lot lower when Trump

01:00:25.140 took office than it is right now. So I don't know, Mark, if they call you in there and they could

01:00:30.340 because everyone respects Mark Halperin's view on politics and America. What do you tell them to do

01:00:36.660 to turn this ship around? Well, the 11 percent who aren't bothered by the president's economic

01:00:40.820 policies, I can tell you one thing about them. They all use grape upon mustard. The people who

01:00:46.980 are doing, the people who got rich during COVID are getting rich now. And this is not a partisan

01:00:51.920 thing. It's not an anti-Trump thing. It's just a fact of our economy. When things go poorly,

01:00:57.200 like during COVID for the middle class, the working class, rich people get richer. We've 0.92

01:01:01.880 had it in COVID. We're having it now. And that's just the optics of it are horrible,

01:01:05.900 but the reality of it is horrible. I think the big problem for the president, before he can move

01:01:11.120 on to messaging and talking about the Democrats' position on trans and other issues, he's got to

01:01:16.220 end the war and i gotta tell you i've never seen a situation like this where i don't see from

01:01:22.840 talking to lots of smart people every day i don't see the way out unless iran caves in i don't see

01:01:28.480 the way out and and that's a problem because the clock's ticking towards the midterms that's not

01:01:34.480 good no i agree with you but it's i was hoping you were going to deliver different news because

01:01:39.120 it is it's become like they're intransigent and they're not they're not buckling trump keeps

01:01:48.720 saying it it's like please stop okay just please just stop stop stop stop stop stop like it's like

01:01:53.980 the cuba thing like we can handle the truth we can see it's very tricky very difficult it's it

01:02:00.040 there's no point in undermining the value of your own word because we do need to trust our president

01:02:04.360 by continuously telling us they've caved, we've won, and it's over.

01:02:09.840 Here we are, weeks and months later, they haven't caved, we haven't won, it's not over.

01:02:14.640 We would love for those things to be true.

01:02:17.220 Well said.

01:02:18.340 I don't know, Mark.

01:02:19.380 I mean, what do you think?

01:02:21.480 Have you heard anything about how they feel internally at the White House, at the Pentagon, about the Iran problem?

01:02:28.520 Right.

01:02:28.700 So there's two areas that the hopeful people cite.

01:02:31.880 One is the thing the president and Scott Besson have been talking about for weeks, that Iran's going to run out of storage capacity for its oil and that that will cause them to cry, uncle, because at that point, they're not making money selling oil and they'll have to shut down their oil facilities.

01:02:46.960 And if you shut them down, it's virtually impossible to start them back up with their great expense.

01:02:51.600 That hasn't happened yet.

01:02:53.180 But the president and Scott Besson have been promising it for a while.

01:02:55.460 Maybe that'll happen.

01:02:56.700 The other is Iran has made a counter offer.

01:02:59.040 It still falls far short, the administration says, what would be acceptable.

01:03:03.440 But the optimist administration say this shows Iran knows it's losing.

01:03:08.060 Iran knows it needs to make a deal.

01:03:10.500 Other people in the administration say this shows Iran is still playing games and that

01:03:14.840 they'll just try to run out the clock towards the midterms by coming back with incrementally

01:03:19.500 quote unquote better offers.

01:03:23.160 I'm deeply concerned from talking to folks about the prospect of more military force 0.81

01:03:28.660 used by the United States because of the capacity Iran seems to have, may have, to hit other

01:03:35.380 civilian and energy and health targets in Israel and in the Middle East and the Gulf states. So

01:03:44.460 again, I've covered a lot of presidents and a lot of sticky wickets, a lot of pickles,

01:03:49.940 a lot of problems, a lot of challenges. I've never seen one like this because he can't walk

01:03:54.840 People say, oh, just declare victory and go home.

01:03:57.480 The strait would still be closed.

01:03:59.520 They can't walk away.

01:04:01.200 They can't say, well, we destroyed the nuclear program because they have to open it.

01:04:04.640 Can I ask this?

01:04:06.280 Won't China step in to open it?

01:04:08.300 Like, I know it's not their problem they didn't create this, but like, they don't want the

01:04:12.400 strait closed and they're friends.

01:04:14.240 So don't they have a better, a higher likelihood of getting the strait open than we do?

01:04:18.980 Well, I think my, just from observation and reporting in the short term, I think China's

01:04:22.820 fine with the strait being closed because it embarrasses the united states the president may

01:04:27.120 say mr xi is a great friend of his but i think china loves seeing the united states uh brought

01:04:32.560 to its knees to some extent by another by another country um and then and again i always want to

01:04:39.880 make clear i'm rooting for the united states i hope the president figures this out i hope the

01:04:43.680 iranian people get regime change but we can't put our head in the sand and ignore what we see right

01:04:48.380 in front of us. I think the Chinese can work it out. We're going to get regime change if we're

01:04:52.920 not careful. I think the Chinese will figure out a way to get oil. They're already figuring out 1.00

01:04:57.300 some ways to get it. The president's going to sell him some. And the Iranians could say,

01:05:02.440 we'll open the strait to Chinese oil, but not to other countries and oil going to China. And

01:05:09.700 if the United States tries to blockade it, there could be a confrontation. So in the long term,

01:05:15.040 Yes, China can't go forever with the strait being closed, but I suspect they can go through the midterms with the strait being closed.

01:05:22.960 How do we think that the meeting with the Chinese president went last week?

01:05:26.720 I thought it was amazing in no and nothing I read.

01:05:30.500 No, no newspaper article, no evening news report.

01:05:33.640 Did they talk about the two leaders digging in on AI and the threat it poses to all of our children, to our future, to our kids' future?

01:05:45.440 Forget the existential threat of like the AI becomes super intelligent and drops a bomb on us pesky humans, which actually is a risk that's being seriously flagged by AI experts.

01:05:57.320 But let's just check that for now because we mere mortals can't quite understand that one.

01:06:03.640 And the elimination of all of our children's livelihoods, like every white-collar job in America, and a lot of the blue-collar ones, too, didn't even seem to come up, Mark.

01:06:15.860 So who's mining that shop?

01:06:18.920 Well, I think our boys need to go into the HVAC business because I don't think AI can replace that.

01:06:23.900 So get them off the college track, get them into trade school.

01:06:29.400 I think there'll still be jobs in journalism.

01:06:31.700 Yeah, I do, too.

01:06:32.740 not many, but some. Well, on our side, there are lots of people. David Sachs, Scott Bess,

01:06:38.560 and others are very on top of this. The problem is the Chinese don't seem to have anybody who 1.00

01:06:43.900 wants to take the lead, negotiate it. It was discussed. Remember, they have three more 0.99

01:06:47.860 meetings. Part of why I think this meeting was for many kind of anticlimactic and is that all

01:06:53.940 there is reaction to it is they have three more meetings in the next six months. And so I think

01:06:59.080 this was meant to be kind of phase one. If the goal of the summit was to make Xi feel like his

01:07:04.220 country is equal to the United States, I think the president pulled that off.

01:07:08.000 Over the weekend, they announced a few other things. I'm amazed. You talk about the transformation

01:07:12.960 we did earlier in how Americans think about Israel. The change in China is quite something

01:07:19.040 because Donald Trump is going over there and saying what a great guy Xi is and how wonderful

01:07:23.400 China is. I don't think you could have gotten away with that five years ago, six years ago. In fact,

01:07:27.780 Donald Trump ran for president in 2016 saying very different things about China.

01:07:32.060 But if the goal was to get.

01:07:33.940 They didn't say it about us.

01:07:35.000 No, no, it was totally.

01:07:38.060 They didn't say it about him.

01:07:38.960 It was totally unequal.

01:07:39.960 And the president said it repeatedly.

01:07:41.780 So I think that, again, there's no other conclusion one can draw, but that that was one of the

01:07:46.840 primary goals to give Xi what he wanted, which is to feel that the United States treats him

01:07:52.040 like an equal.

01:07:52.760 The problem is, I don't think Xi gives anything back in return.

01:07:55.880 He negotiates over what's mine is mine and what yours will negotiate over.

01:08:00.180 And he wants what he wants.

01:08:02.480 And I don't think praising him, he's a very shrewd guy.

01:08:05.600 I don't think praising him impacts him.

01:08:08.480 It makes him feel good because he can sell to his own people that, well, the United States

01:08:13.340 treats us as an equal.

01:08:14.380 But in terms of actually changing his behavior on controversial areas, I don't see it.

01:08:18.820 And the two countries must cooperate on AI because they're the two international leaders

01:08:23.360 on the matter. And and every every one of our children is impacted unless the government can

01:08:28.960 get this right. So two things. One, everything you just said is exactly right and applies to

01:08:35.080 what Trump has done with Putin, too. He he thinks because he can be, you know, manipulated by

01:08:40.420 flattery that that'll work on others. And it clearly has served Trump well in politics and

01:08:45.260 in real estate. But it's not working when it comes to international diplomacy at all. It's

01:08:51.700 It failed with Putin, who we also put on an equal scale to us when he came over and Trump met him at the airport.

01:08:58.160 Did the Chinese president meet Trump at the airport?

01:09:00.360 He did not.

01:09:01.600 He sent the number two guy.

01:09:03.380 We went to him and we flattered him.

01:09:05.980 We said all these nice things about him, about China.

01:09:07.760 Did he say any of those things about Trump or the United States?

01:09:10.340 Not at all.

01:09:11.700 So it's just it's not working.

01:09:12.880 Trump calculates that this thing that he has used effectively will work.

01:09:17.880 And it's it's not that particular thing's not working.

01:09:20.600 I'm going to show you something somewhat profane, but very entertaining from Tim Dillon

01:09:24.160 about how he views the United States and China, having watched the news out of that summit.

01:09:32.400 Brace yourself. Here we go.

01:09:34.980 This is very clear that there's no option. 1.00

01:09:37.140 We're not telling China to fuck off. 1.00

01:09:40.420 We're done with that. 1.00

01:09:42.020 Let me help everybody.

01:09:43.460 We're done with that.

01:09:44.340 We're not the high school bully anymore.

01:09:46.400 We're not.

01:09:47.080 we're the weird kid who may have a gun we are not the high school bully anymore we're the weird kid 1.00

01:09:55.400 that may have a gun and is not hot but it's not terribly ugly like you might fuck them 0.99

01:10:04.020 that's who we are we're the weird kid that knows how to get drugs who may have a gun 1.00

01:10:09.500 and you could see yourself fucking we're not the bully we are not the jock we are not the 0.99

01:10:14.900 quarterback the set the american quarterback century is over this is not top gun we are not 1.00

01:10:21.060 tom cruise you need to wake the fuck up there's a new chinese kid in school and he's kind of 0.99

01:10:26.940 american looking he's kind of ripped but he's also chinese and he's hot and people want to fuck him 0.99

01:10:32.340 it's an imperfect metaphor megan imperfect so funny is he wrong i don't know 0.99

01:10:43.280 i mean he's persuading me he's partially wrong i mean we still have a lot of uh advantages over 0.78

01:10:49.980 china the problem is they're they're an evil empire and and i've said for a long time the

01:10:55.140 goal the job of the american president on foreign policy and national security is to figure out how 1.00

01:10:59.800 to get leverage over china russia and iran and as you said about china and russia it's also true

01:11:05.720 about iran remember for a while the president was saying oh the iranians are such good negotiators

01:11:11.240 You know, the new group is reasonable.

01:11:15.760 These three regimes are just interested in pocketing wins over the United States.

01:11:21.480 They're not interested in helping Donald Trump out of the mess he's in.

01:11:24.800 So, again, I hope he can figure it out.

01:11:27.680 I hope he can end both wars. 0.57

01:11:29.160 I hope he can topple the Iranian regime.

01:11:31.160 I hope he can get every advantage over China on economics and national security. 0.78

01:11:36.800 but right now it looks to be playing a hand that involves flattery as a way to get leverage over

01:11:43.220 these three governments and i just don't see an evidence of it no you're right too yeah the

01:11:49.300 iranian example is a good one it's worked a little better with north korea yes it has you know as

01:11:54.760 trump said the other day he goes they're quiet uh so that's good that's one although we can put

01:11:59.980 in his although they still have missiles and nukes so it's not it's not over it's just they're

01:12:03.800 They're not rattling sabers immediately.

01:12:07.040 We'll take quiet.

01:12:08.340 That's great.

01:12:08.880 It's good.

01:12:09.480 That's a win.

01:12:10.260 It's a win.

01:12:10.820 Temporarily.

01:12:12.400 Okay.

01:12:13.940 Spencer Pratt remains in the headlines.

01:12:16.740 And now there's a question about whether Trump is going to endorse him.

01:12:20.980 Reportedly, the White House is considering it.

01:12:23.500 Since it's California and L.A., you do have to ask the question, would that be helpful?

01:12:28.860 Right.

01:12:29.120 It's like, not sure.

01:12:31.800 I'm sure they're weighing that.

01:12:33.060 they're aware of that dynamic too. I want to show you something he just released because he's been

01:12:37.220 doing such a good job at the ad game. You know, whether it's him or his surrogates or he retweets

01:12:43.900 something that somebody did via AI, but he's clearly got a good eye for communication, what

01:12:48.040 works, what doesn't. Here's his latest ad he just released with a Fresh Prince of Bel-Air theme.

01:13:03.060 Take a minute to run for mayor.

01:13:04.680 I'll tell you how I became the prince of a town called Bel Air.

01:13:16.240 In West Los Angeles, Palisades, my backyard is where I spent most of my days.

01:13:21.460 Feeding hummingbirds, relaxing all cool, avoiding all the bones outside of the school.

01:13:26.020 When a couple politicians were up to no good, started making trouble in my neighborhood.

01:13:30.440 I got at one little fire, my mom got scared

01:13:33.100 And said, you're moving in with Harvey Levin and Bel-Air

01:13:35.800 I pulled out from my lot about seven or eight

01:13:47.360 And I yelled to the rubble, yo, I'll smell you later

01:13:49.900 I moved to my kingdom, I was finally there

01:13:52.180 To sit on my throne as the Prince of Bel-Air

01:14:00.980 He's in his trailer in Bel Air at the end for the listening audience.

01:14:05.320 It's very clever given that whether he actually lives in his trailer on the spot where his house burned was all over the news last week.

01:14:16.300 Harvey Levin actually cross-examined him on TMZ saying, isn't it true that you're at the Hotel Bel Air?

01:14:22.680 You're not in your trailer on your lot.

01:14:25.520 And so you've moved to Bel Air, this snooty community.

01:14:28.680 And he just kept saying, my home is still a burned lot where my trailer is.

01:14:35.100 I've been getting death threats.

01:14:36.580 So, yeah, we were in a hotel now, but my home is burned and where it always was.

01:14:40.860 And they just kept having this sort of meaningless back and forth.

01:14:43.980 So there seems to be a jab at Harvey Levin in a clever, I think, new ad.

01:14:48.100 What do you think, Mark?

01:14:49.060 Well, a lot of focus on whether he'll win and a lot of focus on the ads and the ads are spectacular.

01:14:53.840 and they teach a lot about what effective communication is in politics and in general.

01:14:59.920 To me, the biggest issue here, whether he wins or loses, and I think he has a good chance to win.

01:15:04.740 I predicted a little bit tongue in cheek that I think he will win, but I don't feel strongly

01:15:09.640 about it, but I think he could. The biggest issue is we have let down families and children

01:15:14.480 in big cities around the country for decades now, almost all run by Democrats. The case of

01:15:20.740 of the mayor of L.A., Karen Bass, is an extreme one because she also allowed the fires to burn 0.86

01:15:26.400 down. But separate from that, drugs, crime, failing schools, all the things that exist in

01:15:32.200 our big cities run by Democrats. And the Republican Party, I say all the time, the only

01:15:39.180 thing bigger failure than the Democratic governance in the cities is the failure of Republicans to win

01:15:43.960 these races by saying, are you sick of the failure? Let's try something different. This guy

01:15:49.840 is may not be an orthodox candidate, but like Donald Trump, I think that's what's given him a

01:15:54.900 chance. He's highlighting the failures of governance. That's what this should be about.

01:15:59.520 All these families, I live in a big city, you used to, all these families and children who

01:16:03.780 have been failed by failed governance deserve a competition of ideas. And although he's not

01:16:12.760 been very specific what his solutions are in most cases, he's been very effective and on point in

01:16:17.980 criticizing, critiquing the failure of governance by Democrats in Los Angeles. So whether he wins

01:16:23.680 or not, I hope every conservative in the country who lives in a big city or cares about a big city

01:16:28.980 learns from him to say, not just make cute, effective, funny ads, but point out the failure

01:16:34.940 and offer something better because, again, our big cities need to be saved.

01:16:40.240 No, as they say in AA, the first step is admitting you have a problem.

01:16:44.560 And how can you reelect Karen Bass, who doesn't admit she has a problem or her, you know, other Democrat running mate who they seem to think, oh, whatever problems there are have nothing to do with the real problems.

01:16:57.660 They won't identify the actual problems that they've helped create.

01:16:59.820 So, yeah, makes sense to me.

01:17:01.340 Speaking of Harvey Levin, he had an extraordinary moment in he does a podcast once a week.

01:17:08.900 Is it with Garagos?

01:17:10.560 I think it's with Garagos.

01:17:12.100 Yeah, it's with our friend Mark Garagos, who we love.

01:17:14.560 and really kind of let the guard down.

01:17:18.300 Like Harvey, I don't really know Harvey's politics,

01:17:20.420 to be honest, but he seems more left-leaning to me.

01:17:22.680 He's been very Trump-skeptical.

01:17:25.600 He definitely gave Spencer Pratt the business

01:17:28.540 last week over that trailer.

01:17:30.320 But then there was this remarkable moment

01:17:32.840 in the podcast he does with Garagos.

01:17:34.700 Listen to Sat, 18.

01:17:36.460 I'm not only a born and raised Los Angeleno,

01:17:40.740 but I'm second generation.

01:17:42.000 My dad was born and raised in LA.

01:17:43.480 And so this is my life. And I have seen this city just fall apart, you know, over the last, I don't know, eight, nine years, but especially the last four years that, you know, the homeless problem is out of control in this city.

01:17:59.740 I've been chased by people, a guy with a hammer walking out of my gym.

01:18:04.500 He chased me with a hammer.

01:18:06.220 I had a mentally ill woman, a homeless woman, take a boulder and trash my car. 1.00

01:18:12.460 And I caught her doing it. 1.00

01:18:14.280 And I realized there is nothing I can do.

01:18:17.000 What am I going to do?

01:18:17.520 Get her arrested?

01:18:18.560 I mean, what is that going to do?

01:18:19.700 Am I going to sue her?

01:18:20.740 So I literally looked at my car, watched her walk away and said, I live in Los Angeles.

01:18:25.480 And, you know, the fires have been an absolute outrage in the city.

01:18:29.740 this city operated in an appalling way during the fires. I've got a friend, his name is Dan Brunn.

01:18:35.420 He's an amazing architect. He put together a plan with a hundred architects to offer their services

01:18:42.140 free of charge to rebuild Altadena and Pacific Palisades. I actually contacted Gavin Newsom.

01:18:47.540 They were all in and they brought it down to the city, which they had to do. And it died

01:18:51.240 a slow death in the city of Los Angeles. So this city is not working. Really powerful stuff.

01:18:58.780 what do you make of it sounds like every one of my liberal friends who lives in la this is why i

01:19:02.760 think spencer pratt might win because because that point of view if you own a home and or have kids

01:19:09.700 and you live in la i don't know how you have any other point of view it's manifestly failing and

01:19:15.680 uh as uh as the popular uh expression goes instead of definition of insanity is doing the same thing

01:19:22.440 over and over and expecting a different result how could how could anyone want to consign

01:19:26.560 themselves to four more years four more years of karen bass's policies i don't get it so um i i

01:19:33.120 just i listen to that and it's just it's like my inbox with all my liberal la friends who say to

01:19:37.680 me i i'm not going to vote for karen bass i don't really love spencer pratt i think he's kind of a

01:19:41.680 joke this is them talking but they're all voting for spencer pratt every one of them trey he should

01:19:47.780 pull the trump line out what the hell do you have to lose exactly hundred percent what trump said

01:19:52.780 to black voters 100 percent what do you have to lose yeah that's what spencer pratt needs to say

01:19:57.700 he's he's got something there's he's got the it factor yep and uh so i agree with you don't don't

01:20:02.640 rule him out just because of these polls right now we'll see fingers crossed that our friends in

01:20:07.320 los angeles rescue themselves mark halpern a pleasure my friend thank you for being here

01:20:12.560 great to see megan thanks all right uh coming up next a first-time guest on this show out with an

01:20:18.020 important new book on the dangers of too much therapy. Are you feeling sluggish, bloated,

01:20:26.700 not quite like yourself? Life constantly bombards us with silent threats, processed foods, artificial

01:20:33.260 light, nonstop stress, all of which can disrupt gut health, drain energy, and weaken immune health.

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01:21:20.020 armra.com slash Megan or enter Megan, M-E-G-Y-N to get 30% off your first subscription order. You do

01:21:28.240 that when you're checking out. That's A-R-M-R-A.com slash M-E-G-Y-N or just enter that code Megan

01:21:36.200 when you're checking out. Hey everyone, it's me, Megan Kelly. I've got some exciting news.

01:21:44.460 I now have my very own channel on Sirius XM.

01:21:47.920 It's called the Megyn Kelly Channel, and it is where you will hear the truth,

01:21:50.980 unfiltered, with no agenda, and no apologies.

01:21:54.040 Along with the Megyn Kelly Show, you're going to hear from people like

01:21:56.300 Mark Halperin, Link Lauren, Maureen Callahan, Emily Jashinsky, Jesse Kelly,

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01:22:03.380 It's bold, no BS news.

01:22:05.500 Only on the Megyn Kelly Channel, Sirius XM 111, and on the Sirius XM app.

01:22:14.460 Modern therapy culture has made its way out of the therapist's office and seeped into everyday

01:22:20.320 American life. Today, it's everywhere in our politics, our workplaces, our social media feeds.

01:22:27.020 Well, our next guest wrote the book on how this happened. He's psychotherapist Jonathan Alpert,

01:22:33.140 and he is the author of the brand new book, Therapy Nation, how America got hooked on therapy

01:22:39.840 and Why It's Left Us More Anxious and Divided, out tomorrow.

01:22:45.140 Jonathan, welcome to the show.

01:22:46.180 Great to see you.

01:22:46.620 Megan, thanks so much for having me on.

01:22:48.260 I appreciate it.

01:22:50.380 Oh, the pleasure's all mine.

01:22:51.420 So tell me why you felt it was important to write this book.

01:22:54.180 Well, like you said, therapy is just everywhere,

01:22:57.000 and it really should stay confined to the therapist's office, but it's not.

01:23:01.180 And back in 2012, I wrote an opinion piece for the New York Times

01:23:05.340 called In Therapy Forever, Enough Already.

01:23:08.540 And in that piece, I argued that therapy is actually hurting people in most cases, not

01:23:13.420 helping people.

01:23:14.780 And then fast forward to a few years ago when I started writing Therapy Nation, and I saw

01:23:19.220 that this is a much bigger problem than I thought.

01:23:22.180 It's dividing families.

01:23:23.860 There's estrangement.

01:23:25.460 It's affecting relationships.

01:23:27.020 It's affecting dating.

01:23:28.760 It's made its way into politics.

01:23:31.380 So really, therapy is just everywhere.

01:23:33.700 And that's why the book is called Therapy Nation.

01:23:35.720 It's in many ways ruining this country.

01:23:38.820 So I thought it was important to get that message out there.

01:23:42.420 So it used to be in the country, you know, stiff upper lip, you know, you're fine.

01:23:48.420 You're fine.

01:23:49.380 And then we kind of realized, well, that doesn't work for everybody.

01:23:52.780 Some people actually do need to talk about their problems.

01:23:55.140 And we had more psychotherapists pop up and more counseling pop up and people started

01:24:00.540 to use them.

01:24:01.220 And how do we get from that to everyone is overly therapized and has got their prescriptions for their boundaries, their me time, their safe spaces to where you can't even talk to some of these young people because they're so obsessed with their latest disorder or how something you've done has crossed some imaginary line that they've created in order to foster their own happiness?

01:24:24.420 Well, and you're spot on with that. Everything's a disorder. We have therapists that are pathologizing everything. Had a bad day at work? Well, you must have a toxic work environment. Your boss is a jerk? Well, he must be a narcissist if he's demanding. Or your boyfriend's not acting the way that you want him to? Well, he must be a narcissist as well. So we have therapists.

01:24:48.040 Every one of my friends who has an ex-boyfriend thinks he's a narcissist. It's very funny. It's a common theme.

01:24:54.120 Well, and it's an overdone theme. And my profession is to blame for that. We have therapists who are using these clinical terms so loosely, and then it's migrated and found its way into social media. So we have, you know, you name it, your favorite influencers out there just spewing absolute nonsense and labeling everyone as ADHD or toxic or narcissist or bipolar or borderline.

01:25:20.560 And so it's a huge problem in our society.

01:25:23.880 I have patients that come in to see me for the first time and they say, I think I'm bipolar

01:25:28.540 or I think my girlfriend is borderline.

01:25:30.740 And I said, well, why do you think that?

01:25:32.800 Well, my influencer that I follow said that.

01:25:36.420 And they put out these checklists, five signs that you might be ADHD or five signs that

01:25:41.880 your boyfriend's a narcissist.

01:25:43.980 So again, this starts in my profession. 0.99

01:25:46.640 I have colleagues that are putting this nonsense out there.

01:25:50.560 How do you, it's funny because I've told the audience many times that I, I've had the same

01:25:54.340 therapist for 14, 15 years now, 15 years. And, but I, so I'm like, why does that work for me?

01:26:01.180 The truth is we don't really do therapy. He's more like a life coach. You know, he more gives me

01:26:07.240 helpful tips for how to think about things in a different way. He never asks me questions about

01:26:13.920 my childhood or my mother. You know, it's not like that. It's like, he's very practical and

01:26:18.780 he likes cognitive behavioral therapy, where you're really just giving somebody a tool

01:26:23.400 for different ways of looking at things. For me, that's been very effective.

01:26:27.320 But oftentimes, it is more of a blame session with these therapists who want to throw your

01:26:33.120 parents, like, I have a dear friend who's been through multiple therapists. And like,

01:26:36.780 if I had a nickel for each one that tried to alienate her from her mother, and she loves

01:26:40.900 her mother, she actually didn't seem to have a bunch of problems with her mother until the

01:26:44.480 therapist started to create some. Yeah, exactly. And Megan, it sounds like you've got a great 0.87

01:26:49.660 therapist and there should be more therapists like that. But so many people have come to me

01:26:53.860 and they've talked about their previous therapy and how they just sat there and talked about their

01:26:58.640 potty training days for years and years. And if you think about the time commitment,

01:27:03.600 if you're going in weekly and spending a fortune on this, it's a complete utter waste of time.

01:27:09.180 And I think we don't need to look too much further than Woody Allen. He's the poster boy for

01:27:13.920 lifelong, old-school psychoanalysis. It simply does not work. And the approach that you mentioned,

01:27:20.940 cognitive behavioral therapy, is much more about setting concrete goals and coming up with a plan

01:27:26.980 to reach them. And that's the way that I practice as well. And that's most effective. That's how

01:27:32.340 you're going to help with anxiety issues, depression, relationship problems, career,

01:27:37.320 performance issues. But to sit around and vent with your therapist, in the moment it feels good,

01:27:43.160 And that's why people keep going back for more. But if you're not learning practical skills or

01:27:49.120 gaining true insight or tools, then it's a complete waste of time.

01:27:54.560 Yes, yes. They're doing this to children too. Again, we're speaking with Jonathan Alper and

01:27:59.060 the book is Therapy Nation, How America Got Hooked on Therapy and Why It's Left Us More

01:28:04.380 Anxious and Divided. More anxious. They're both addressed, the division as well. But on the

01:28:10.780 anxiety front, the children go through this too. The children show up at school. And now the big

01:28:16.800 thing is for these teachers to make them talk about the worst thing that's ever happened to them.

01:28:21.300 That's what the college essays are supposed to be about, something terrible that happened to you.

01:28:26.520 And just the mere act of spending all your time thinking about that or trying to kick off your

01:28:31.400 day at school, talking about that is not helpful. Yeah, no, it's not helpful at all. And if we're

01:28:38.300 so focused on all the things that are wrong with ourselves or society, how are we possibly going

01:28:43.540 to move forward? When I work with people, I want them to tap into their strengths and what they're

01:28:48.380 good at, not sit there and talk to me endlessly about all the things that are problematic in

01:28:53.300 their life. Let's talk about what's good and how to build on that. But you're right, we see it in

01:28:58.100 schools. After the most recent election of Donald Trump, Georgetown University held emergency

01:29:04.800 sessions to help their students cope with the loss. And, you know, I have to wonder if Kamala

01:29:10.820 Harris had won, would we have seen those same faculty and therapists providing mental health

01:29:18.600 help for students? I highly doubt it. Oh, yeah. But, you know, academia is a huge, huge problem

01:29:25.900 in my profession. I mean, we have Columbia University that teaches their grad students

01:29:32.320 a model of, well, you're either oppressed or you're the oppressor. I'm sorry, that just does

01:29:38.680 not work. You're creating a monster when you do that. If you're training a therapist to look at

01:29:43.780 every patient as either oppressed or the oppressor, that's not going to move our society

01:29:49.400 to a healthier place. I mean, I think I'm pretty sure this was years ago and I was on Fox, but I

01:29:54.460 think it was Columbia Law School too that canceled exams. If you were upset over, was it the Ferguson

01:30:00.360 and riot, whatever, like you have upset. You don't have to take exams because you're too upset,

01:30:04.280 which of course is not how real life works. When you're an actual lawyer, you actually have to go

01:30:09.140 into court and argue no matter what's happening in the news, no matter what's happening in your

01:30:13.300 private life. And certainly if, if you cannot function in the face of being upset, you're not

01:30:20.740 going to make a very good lawyer. It's a very contentious profession. Like you actually do

01:30:26.680 need to learn how to function under duress and when things are on fire around you. But that

01:30:32.680 little microcosm could be expanded to our society right now with parents creating the safe spaces,

01:30:39.160 then the academic environments create the safe spaces, and then they get out into the world

01:30:44.340 and they think the safe spaces are an entitlement. Yeah, no, we have an accommodation culture that's

01:30:51.460 running rampant. We have therapists who are writing notes for everything, had a bad day,

01:30:56.600 well, you need extra time on your test, on your exam at school. Therapists are accommodating,

01:31:03.160 and you can even extend this into other issues where therapists will just validate

01:31:09.340 everything. If a young boy thinks he might be a girl or vice versa, they'll just validate and

01:31:16.520 affirm that. And we've all seen the dangerous path that that can go down. So it's time that 0.91

01:31:22.380 therapists tap the brakes on all this and start to teach resilience and not just cater to every

01:31:29.060 weakness or fragile aspect that they think their patient has.

01:31:34.500 Yes, yes, yes. This is like, I just feel like parents have totally misunderstood their job

01:31:40.680 in some ways, because when your kid is home from zero to 18 or whenever they're going off to leave

01:31:45.540 you. That's your opportunity when they have problems to work with them so that they can

01:31:51.940 learn how to solve them. You're in the backup supportive role so that they can learn that skill

01:31:58.400 as opposed to a chance for you to exercise your super savvy problem solving skills for them.

01:32:05.900 It's like at some point they're not going to live with you. At some point they need to do it on

01:32:10.080 their own. Wouldn't you rather they practice while still with you, while you can be of help

01:32:16.300 if it falls apart or while they might want some input, but not somebody else to do it.

01:32:21.640 And it's just, you can, I can see lots of people doing this. They totally misunderstand it and

01:32:25.620 it's to their child's detriment. It's actually sad. You also write, as I point out in the book,

01:32:30.820 Therapy Nation, it's called by Jonathan Alpert, how America got hooked on therapy and why it's

01:32:34.820 left us more anxious and divided about the division and how, for example, TDS, Trump

01:32:42.640 derangement syndrome is a real thing. And it's like you really are sick. Like this thing could 0.99

01:32:49.500 possibly wind up in the DSM five. It might actually have a place to go in there.

01:32:53.560 Yeah, Megan, my favorite topic, TDS. And I did write a piece on the Wall Street Journal about

01:32:59.120 that. And I made it very clear that this does not exist right now. It's not in the DSM. And I can't

01:33:05.640 imagine that we'll ever see it in the DSM. But the pathology that I'm seeing in patients resembles a

01:33:12.960 lot of other disorders. There's a hyper fixation on Trump. They can't sleep because they're

01:33:18.360 thinking about Trump. I've even had patients who can't possibly take a vacation that they'll say,

01:33:24.260 how can I take a vacation knowing that Trump's in office? It's just absolutely ridiculous. I've 0.97

01:33:30.100 seen relationships broken up because of Trump. I recall one person, he posted that iconic photo

01:33:38.640 of Trump getting up after being shot in Butler. Then his significant other saw that picture that

01:33:46.400 he posted. Then they went to their couple's therapist. The couple's therapist said,

01:33:51.220 well, what are you going to do about posting that picture? You have to do something about that. You

01:33:55.560 can't possibly put such a picture up there. And my patient was like, well, what do you mean? It's

01:34:00.640 just an iconic photo. I'm not a very political person. I just happen to like the photo. And

01:34:06.700 the therapist made him feel like there was something wrong with him. So we have therapists

01:34:11.540 that are acting as social justice warriors rather than clinicians. It's absolutely absurd what's

01:34:17.840 going on. TDS seems I mean, it seems like a very, very bad affliction, truly. Like I'd rather I

01:34:25.060 think have OCD. I'd rather have tics. I just feel like because once you have the TDS, it ruins and

01:34:31.900 runs your life. Everything is put through the prism of Trump. How how does how is Trump to blame?

01:34:40.800 What am I going to do about Trump? And it's very unhealthy to spend that much time thinking about

01:34:44.980 your president. It is. And, you know, just to look at the other side, I've had plenty of patients who

01:34:50.700 hate it, disliked Joe Biden or Kamala Harris, but they didn't sit up at night thinking about him.

01:34:57.360 They certainly never wanted him, those people to be killed. And the difference is on the left,

01:35:02.500 I have patients, whether they're in their 20s, 50s, 60s, and even older, who actually want Trump 0.97

01:35:09.580 to be killed. And, you know, that's just, to me, sick, pathologic thinking. You should never want 0.94

01:35:16.420 a president to be shot. And, you know, all you have to do is look at our history and the unrest

01:35:21.760 that this could cause if it ever happened. But they're not looking at it like that. They're just

01:35:26.180 their hatred towards Trump is so intense that they can't see the bigger picture.

01:35:31.700 Is it something about him that's doing that to them? Like he's just too combative and he's too

01:35:39.000 strong? Or is it something about them that's doing that to them? Well, that's a very good

01:35:43.480 question. And I think it's probably both. One of the things that I think it is, they just,

01:35:48.360 they still, all these years later, just cannot believe that Trump is the president.

01:35:53.940 Trump, the entertainer, Trump, the businessman. And they question, well, how could someone like

01:35:59.340 that become president? And they just, they don't understand it. They just haven't accepted it.

01:36:05.080 And after Trump was elected the first time, I had patients who were telling me they were going to flee the country, withdraw their investments, the world is ending, the country's ending.

01:36:16.280 Of course, none of them left the country.

01:36:18.560 And then that mentality, those beliefs became hardened.

01:36:22.960 And then fast forward to the second election, and it's even worse because now they want Trump dead.

01:36:30.100 And, like, I don't care. Like, you should never hope for the president to be shot, whether it's Biden or Trump or any president. And if you look back.

01:36:38.280 What do you think? I was just going to say, just again, we're speaking with Jonathan Alpert. His new book is Therapy Nation. I don't understand, though, like as somebody who's had multiple tussles with President Trump when he's president, when he wasn't, I never got the TDS.

01:36:56.260 and I look at the people who get the TDS

01:36:59.440 and it almost seems like Ebola.

01:37:01.680 You know, like if it strikes, it's really unfortunate.

01:37:04.580 Once you get it, it's very deadly.

01:37:06.580 It's very tough to get rid of it.

01:37:08.220 The secret is not to get it,

01:37:09.600 but it's not gonna strike everybody.

01:37:11.840 Why are there so many people out there

01:37:15.260 who can talk about Donald Trump by saying,

01:37:17.860 this is something he's doing that's good.

01:37:19.700 This is something I think that's bad.

01:37:21.600 And now I'm gonna go on with my life.

01:37:23.440 Here's the rest of the news, et cetera. 0.95

01:37:25.040 And there are others who he takes over like Rosie O'Donnell. She blames her herpes on Donald Trump. She moved out of the country. Ellen DeGeneres moved out of the country like they get Bruce Springsteen, Robert De Niro. 1.00

01:37:41.940 Like, it's taken over their art, their personality, their lives.

01:37:47.600 It's truly, it's like, how can some still function in this world?

01:37:51.400 And even people like I just had, you know, some things I don't like about them and things

01:37:55.700 I do like about them.

01:37:56.340 But there are people who really can't stand them, who still don't have TDS.

01:38:00.120 They don't think about them all the time.

01:38:01.440 They don't make their life decisions about it.

01:38:03.680 So what is it?

01:38:04.620 Like, it's genuinely, do you think these people are slightly untethered to begin with?

01:38:07.780 Oh, absolutely.

01:38:08.520 You know, so many people on the left, they love to have a villain.

01:38:14.300 They need someone to hate.

01:38:16.400 And, you know, look at Luigi Mangione.

01:38:18.640 I mean, he's probably the poster boy for this grievance culture.

01:38:22.860 But, yeah, many people need someone to hate.

01:38:25.520 I would argue that a lot of people on the left that are so consumed by Trump, the figure,

01:38:30.920 maybe they just don't have enough going on in their life outside of that.

01:38:34.880 Yes.

01:38:35.320 You know, whether it's a career, family, friends, hobbies, religion, whatever it is, there are so many things that are much more important than than Trump and friends and family should absolutely come before before Trump.

01:38:51.460 And unfortunately, we have we have mental health experts on national TV saying if you don't like the way that your friends or family voted, just cut them out.

01:39:01.580 you don't need to attend their Thanksgiving dinner. And that's the advice that we have on

01:39:06.380 shows like MSNBC and the like. They're dividing our country. That's my subtitle, how they're 0.98

01:39:13.920 dividing this country. And that's not the advice I would ever give. I would say, look, you should

01:39:20.680 rise above politics. Like, where do you connect? If only we could get back to the days of maybe

01:39:27.040 when Reagan was in office, neighbors could still get along despite having different signs in their

01:39:33.200 front yard for whether it's Reagan or someone else. But we're not. We're so divided. And again,

01:39:40.600 a lot of this I talk about in my book, how my profession is responsible for that. I actually

01:39:46.960 know therapists who refuse to treat someone if they voted for Trump. Can you imagine?

01:39:52.980 oh my gosh no kidding can you imagine going into the er uh maybe wearing a maga hat and the doctor

01:40:01.060 turning you down oh that's disgusting i mean that's truly a violation of the hippocratic oath

01:40:07.160 um again the book is therapy nation well worth your time the author is jonathan alpert my guest

01:40:12.480 now it this discussion reminds me of this woman we featured on the show a couple of years ago

01:40:18.700 speaking of the young people like signing on to every disorder which somehow makes them feel good

01:40:24.080 about themselves as opposed to bad about themselves this was april 2023 it was in new mexico a woman

01:40:29.800 was pulled over for driving on the wrong side of the road she was clearly intoxicated and accused

01:40:35.800 of such and she played every victim card in the book look at this soundbite i have like really

01:40:43.120 bad social anxiety and stuff. I get you. Back back here, please. Miss Perry? I'm non-binary,

01:40:56.440 so. Okay. What do you go by? Kai. How can I refer to you tonight? Kai? Okay. Hey, I'm

01:41:03.140 smelling alcohol. I know. How much have you consumed tonight? Probably three drinks. I

01:41:07.780 need to run you through some tests right now. Stand facing me, please. But I just want you

01:41:11.120 know that I also have very bad social anxiety. You and me both. Okay. Any recent head trauma,

01:41:19.360 traumatic brain injuries, anything I need to know about? Mental, yes. Focus on my finger,

01:41:25.560 please. I am. You're just like trying to intimidate me. I don't know how I'm trying to do that.

01:41:31.900 This is the test. As you know, as an indigenous person and there's a bunch of going around,

01:41:36.760 I'm sorry, but it's just for me to be on my toes.

01:41:41.760 I'll get you.

01:41:42.760 Can you remember that I told you that?

01:41:45.760 I'm non-binary.

01:41:47.760 Yeah, I'll try my hardest.

01:41:49.760 I'll refer to you as Kai, right?

01:41:50.760 Yes.

01:41:51.760 Perfect.

01:41:52.760 I need to know if you have any injuries or anything that would prevent you from doing

01:41:54.760 a standard walk or a turn tonight.

01:41:56.760 Mental health.

01:41:58.760 Any physical injuries?

01:42:00.760 Mentally, yeah.

01:42:02.760 Can you not call me man, please?

01:42:05.760 I'm trying my hardest.

01:42:06.960 Okay, Paul.

01:42:08.020 Okay.

01:42:08.820 It means a lot to me.

01:42:10.080 I'm trying my hardest.

01:42:11.360 I don't feel like it means a lot.

01:42:11.880 Okay, we get it.

01:42:12.920 She goes on to say she suffers from generational trauma, Jonathan Alpert.

01:42:17.540 We've got lots of these people.

01:42:19.820 Well, yes.

01:42:20.980 Go to Trader Joe's.

01:42:22.200 Go to your local coffee shop.

01:42:23.620 They're everywhere.

01:42:25.540 Look, first of all, the cop was very respectful of her dozens of disorders.

01:42:31.960 So good for the cop. 0.63

01:42:33.100 But being non-binary, having social anxiety, being a hot mess or whatever else she say that does not give you a pass on driving drunk. 0.99

01:42:45.460 Yes, they'll try anything.

01:42:48.300 I mean, it just puts the lie, too, to these fake disorders, as does the book Therapy Nation.

01:42:54.560 Check it out, How America Got Hooked on Therapy and Why It's Left Us More Divided by Jonathan Albert.

01:42:59.860 Thank you so much.

01:43:00.860 Back tomorrow.

01:43:01.620 Thank you so much.

01:43:03.100 Thanks for listening to The Megyn Kelly Show. No BS, no agenda, and no fear.

The Megyn Kelly Show - May 18, 2026

BS Report on Cuba and Drones, and Why Spencer Pratt Can Win, with Mark Halperin, Ryan Grim, and Curt Mills, Plus Why TDS is REAL, with Jonathan Alpert ｜ Ep. 1319

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