The Megyn Kelly Show - CDC Damage Control and Teachers Refusing to Teach, with Matt Taibbi, Phil Kerpen and Corey DeAngelis ｜ Ep. 237

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00:00:31.100 Welcome to The Megyn Kelly Show.

00:00:33.120 Your home for open, honest and provocative conversations.

00:00:42.520 Hey everyone, I'm Megyn Kelly. Welcome to The Megyn Kelly Show.

00:00:46.340 We begin today with the COVID lies being told by our alleged leaders.

00:00:51.820 From the liberal Supreme Court justices to the head of the CDC,

00:00:56.560 our so-called elites continue to mislead us on the realities of COVID.

00:01:00.060 Why? Because they are agenda, not fact-driven.

00:01:04.700 And once they decide that a policy is right,

00:01:08.180 fact manipulation is entirely permitted,

00:01:11.220 so long as it's in service of that policy.

00:01:14.580 Like the obsession with vaccines.

00:01:18.500 What happened at the Supreme Court on Friday was a great example of it.

00:01:21.980 It was truly shocking in its gall.

00:01:25.360 The liberal Supreme Court justices bandied about, quote,

00:01:29.100 facts like Justice Sotomayor's claims that there are over 100,000 kids in the hospital for COVID.

00:01:38.280 Many on ventilators, she said.

00:01:39.760 In fact, the number is at max 3,500, okay?

00:01:44.880 Not 100,000.

00:01:46.500 And she also claimed that Omicron is as deadly as Delta,

00:01:50.820 which even Dr. Fauci has said is not true, etc.

00:01:54.300 Phil Kirpin of the American Commitment Foundation will join us in a minute with the best fact check

00:01:58.900 you will hear anywhere on what happened at SCOTUS on Friday.

00:02:02.540 His brief was cited repeatedly in Friday's Supreme Court arguments

00:02:05.640 about the legality of the Biden vaccine mandates.

00:02:09.180 He's appalled by what these left-wing justices said and did.

00:02:13.240 I've never seen anything like it.

00:02:14.640 I practiced law for 10 years.

00:02:16.020 I covered the high court for three years.

00:02:17.060 And I've never seen anything like what they did on Friday.

00:02:20.720 They made stuff up left and right.

00:02:23.740 And it was shocking to witness.

00:02:25.740 None of it was in the record, right?

00:02:27.480 You're not allowed to do that.

00:02:28.340 You can take judicial notice of a fact that we all know, like the sky is blue,

00:02:31.840 but not 100,000 kids are in the hospital when they're not, based on COVID.

00:02:38.380 But before we get to the Supreme Court, I want to focus first today on Rochelle Walensky.

00:02:42.500 We've criticized the CDC director before here on this program for behavior more befitting a college co-ed

00:02:47.840 than a woman in this position.

00:02:50.560 Tearfully warning of impending doom long after the virus's most lethal months had passed.

00:02:57.440 Remember that?

00:02:58.440 Telling us how scared she was of COVID.

00:03:01.020 That's helpful.

00:03:02.340 And offering the story of how last summer she told her teenage son, who she said had been looking forward to summer camp all year long,

00:03:10.080 that he couldn't go, even though millions of children would go to summer camp in 2021.

00:03:15.700 And by the way, the summer prior, without any problem whatsoever.

00:03:21.220 Remember when COVID was beginning to wane for a while and she tried to switch the messaging to masks forever,

00:03:27.140 tweeting about how masks prevent all sorts of viruses having nothing to do with COVID-19.

00:03:32.640 Well, that's none of your business, whether I want to wear a mask or not to prevent the common cold on an airplane, Rochelle.

00:03:38.860 I figured this woman was just another hardcore left wing COVID hysteric who had managed to scare herself into oblivion. 1.00

00:03:44.800 But this weekend, a different reality emerged.

00:03:49.620 Rochelle is apparently a partisan hack.

00:03:53.200 Why else would she jump through such hoops to avoid calling out Justice Sotomayor's BS at the U.S. Supreme Court?

00:04:00.500 The hard time she gave Fox News Channel's Brett Baier on his most basic attempts at a fact check reveal a partisan determined to change the subject.

00:04:12.120 Not someone concerned about the credibility of public health messaging.

00:04:16.560 Watch this first up on Justice Sotomayor's claim about 100,000 children being hospitalized, many, she claimed, on ventilators.

00:04:23.980 What we can find from Friday suggests there are fewer than 3,500 current pediatric hospitalizations from COVID-19.

00:04:33.480 Is that true?

00:04:35.600 Yeah, but, you know, here's what I can tell you about our pediatric hospitalizations now.

00:04:39.860 First of all, the vast majority of children who are in the hospital are unvaccinated.

00:04:44.140 And for those children who are not eligible for vaccination, we do know that they are most likely to get sick with COVID if their family members aren't vaccinated.

00:04:53.520 Well, it's understood.

00:04:54.340 But the number is not 100,000.

00:04:55.800 It's roughly 3,500 in hospitals now.

00:05:00.280 Yes, there are.

00:05:01.420 And in fact, what I will say is, while pediatric hospitalizations are rising, they're still about 15-fold less than hospitalizations of our older age demographics.

00:05:11.860 Why did he have to press to get her to answer that?

00:05:14.440 First, she said, yeah, it's true.

00:05:15.760 No, it's not true.

00:05:17.040 He pressed.

00:05:18.020 Then she admitted it's not true because she can't deny it.

00:05:20.400 It's such an obvious lie.

00:05:21.460 And then she went back to her obsession, vaccination, vaccination.

00:05:26.680 That's all she can focus on.

00:05:28.700 Shouldn't the CDC director care that a major figure in the United States is putting out shocking misinformation on children and COVID in a highly watched Supreme Court hearing?

00:05:37.140 Isn't it her professional obligation to correct that?

00:05:40.560 She did finally admit that there are at most 3,500 kids in hospitals with COVID right now, not 100,000, but only after she tried to dodge.

00:05:49.620 Brett had to pin her down.

00:05:50.600 Why?

00:05:50.840 And even then, it was immediately on to how the kids who are hospitalized are unvaccinated and no context on how the vast majority of kids in the hospital right now are there with COVID, not because of COVID.

00:06:02.200 An important distinction.

00:06:04.200 Then he asks her about Sotomayor specifically.

00:06:06.480 Does Rochelle Walensky feel a duty to correct this kind of misinformation?

00:06:10.980 Listen to this.

00:06:12.760 Supreme Court is in the process of dealing with this big issue about mandates.

00:06:16.580 And do you feel a responsibility as a CDC director to correct a very big mischaracterization by one of the Supreme Court justices?

00:06:23.960 Yeah, here's what I'll tell you.

00:06:27.760 I'll tell you that right now, 17, if you're unvaccinated, you're 17 times more likely to be in the hospital and 20 times more likely to die than if you're on, than if you're boosted.

00:06:38.720 Oh my gosh, she's like a robot. 1.00

00:06:41.180 Vaccination, vaccination, vaccination.

00:06:44.300 Even though that wasn't the question.

00:06:46.480 And the truth is vaccinations do not prevent the spread of COVID.

00:06:51.440 In particular, Omicron, which is the variant of the day.

00:06:55.380 And she knows that.

00:06:57.300 Then he asks her about Sotomayor's other whopper about the Omicron variant versus the Delta variant.

00:07:04.600 You tell me, is this woman a straight shooter? 1.00

00:07:07.840 In the Supreme Court also said that Omicron was as deadly as Delta.

00:07:11.960 That is not true, right?

00:07:13.300 We are starting to see data from other countries that indicate on a person by person basis it may not be.

00:07:19.760 However, given the volume of cases that we're seeing with Omicron, we very well may see death rates rise dramatically.

00:07:28.860 Meanwhile, her buddy, Dr. Fauci, already gave up that farm in late December.

00:07:33.980 Listen.

00:07:34.120 We know now, incontrovertibly, that this is a highly, highly transmissible virus.

00:07:42.040 We know that from the numbers we're seeing, all indications point to a lesser severity of Omicron versus Delta.

00:07:48.500 Lesser.

00:07:49.520 Lesser severity.

00:07:50.580 Why can't she just say it?

00:07:51.600 By the way, there was also a study recently out of Houston Methodist showing Omicron is much more contagious than Delta, which we know, but does not, quote, appear to have the very virulence.

00:08:01.240 That's a tough word.

00:08:01.860 Or a machismo to really pack as much of a wallop as the Alpha or Delta strain.

00:08:07.040 What's happening here is one far lefty trying to minimize the embarrassment of another.

00:08:11.140 But that is not Rochelle Walensky's job.

00:08:13.060 She's supposed to be loyal to the truth.

00:08:15.340 She's supposed to represent us.

00:08:17.100 She's supposed to give it to us straight, not act as the PR hack of liberal icon Sonia Sotomayor. 1.00

00:08:25.340 But she refuses to just be honest.

00:08:27.900 And here, it is not her own COVID hawk hysteria motivating her.

00:08:33.320 It's her partisanship.

00:08:35.100 And we know it.

00:08:36.620 It is wrong.

00:08:38.620 And now she owes us more than just the truth.

00:08:41.000 She owes us an apology.

00:08:42.700 Joining me now to discuss all of it, as I mentioned, is Phil Kirpin.

00:08:48.240 Phil truly understands this better than most people.

00:08:50.720 He actually filed an amicus brief, meaning friend of the court brief, that was cited repeatedly in the arguments on Friday.

00:08:57.000 And he knows the thing or two that Sonia Sotomayor apparently does not.

00:09:00.700 Phil, first, let me just ask you for your reaction to the disinformation that we heard from Sonia Sotomayor and Justice Breyer, the liberal wing of the court, on Friday.

00:09:10.680 Well, it was really, really remarkable, Megan.

00:09:15.000 It felt like a time warp at times, like we were still in March 2020, and we were scared and bewildered, and we didn't know what was happening.

00:09:22.780 And hospitals in New York were overwhelmed.

00:09:25.580 And it was completely out of time and out of place for what is actually happening.

00:09:31.260 And anyone who's following the data and following recent developments would know that.

00:09:36.320 And so they live in not just Washington, D.C. is a bubble on this stuff, but there's sort of a bubble within a bubble.

00:09:43.200 I suspect they get I actually assumed they were getting their information from CNN and The New York Times.

00:09:48.140 But it turns out, I think, that she was reading The Guardian, the left-wing U.K. newspaper The Guardian, which apparently had an article that was written sort of in an unclear way that suggested over 100,000 children were hospitalized.

00:10:03.100 So I guess that's where she got that insane, obviously, false number.

00:10:06.900 But just complete disconnect from reality is what the liberal justices showed.

00:10:10.900 It was. It was a complete disconnect in the business about Omicron being just as deadly as Delta.

00:10:18.280 I mean, the most charitable thing you could possibly say about something like this, even if you're the most hawky of the COVID hawks, is, we'll see.

00:10:28.240 You know, is that the best you could possibly do?

00:10:30.000 Like, we'll see.

00:10:31.140 You know, those are going to cause a lot more cases.

00:10:32.500 We've now had South Africa go through their entire Omicron wave up and down.

00:10:36.960 So we've got one country's totally complete experience with this.

00:10:40.480 And it looks like their deaths are going to come in at about 20 times lower than their Delta wave in the Gauteng province, which is Johannesburg, 18 million population, the sort of the epicenter of the epicenter.

00:10:51.160 The inherent reduction in severity of the virus is a little bit in question because they also have a lot more immunity from prior waves.

00:11:01.540 They have some vaccination.

00:11:02.760 And so, you know, this is something we're looking at now as we have the London wave coming down very fast.

00:11:07.160 And by the way, the D.C. wave of Omicron is coming down very fast as well.

00:11:11.380 The justices don't even seem to be aware of what's happening in their own town because the percent positive in D.C. peaked right around January 1st and it's been dropping very steadily here in D.C.

00:11:20.020 So there is this question of, you know, how much of the 10 or 20 fold reduction in mortality is the virus being weaker versus there being more immunity in the population?

00:11:31.900 It's we're going to find out that it's a mix of both.

00:11:34.240 But one thing that's absolutely clear is that this is much less severe and is a much lower threat.

00:11:41.020 And I would argue does not present in any way a grave danger for the purposes of the OSHA determination.

00:11:47.400 Right.

00:11:47.460 You know, even if you thought that Delta did.

00:11:50.660 That's the standard they have to meet in order.

00:11:52.900 Well, that's one of the things they have to prove in order for Biden's vaccine mandates to withstand scrutiny, that there is a grave danger posed by COVID as we know it today.

00:12:02.180 This today's COVID, not yesterday's, not March of 2020's COVID.

00:12:05.460 By the way, I know I see your point on The Guardian, if that if that exact number appears there.

00:12:11.840 My first inclination is yours was The New York Times, because that was the paper that said we had nine hundred thousand children hospitalized with COVID since the beginning of the pandemic.

00:12:22.900 And at that time, it had been sixty three article were as long as the article said that she won all these awards.

00:12:28.420 It was that's their COVID reporter.

00:12:30.980 That's the New York Times COVID reporter who overstayed at that time.

00:12:34.420 It was sixty three thousand.

00:12:35.300 She said it was nine hundred thousand.

00:12:36.920 I mean, insanity.

00:12:38.900 She's been on sort of hiatus since then, though.

00:12:40.800 I don't know if you've noticed, but yes, I have other people since then.

00:12:43.900 So I'm not sure if she's still there.

00:12:45.760 Yeah, well, let's hope not.

00:12:48.560 OK, so it wasn't just Sotomayor.

00:12:50.900 You know, she had a couple of of highlights. 0.90

00:12:53.540 But then you had Justice Breyer saying that the vaccine is going to bring COVID cases to zero.

00:13:01.220 Well, why hasn't it?

00:13:04.200 Yeah, that was insane.

00:13:05.420 I mean, he basically said, look, we had seven hundred fifty thousand cases yesterday.

00:13:08.640 And if we delay this by one day, if we should stay by one day, that means another seven hundred fifty thousand people will be infected as if, you know, it's a switch and you turn the mandate on and cases go to zero.

00:13:21.220 And of course, what we've seen with Omicron is we've actually seen the highest case counts in the most vaccinated places.

00:13:27.660 So the most vaccinated county in America, Marin County, California, has sky high record case counts.

00:13:34.540 You know, New York City has sky high case counts.

00:13:36.660 They're pretty high on the list.

00:13:37.720 And right here and just outside D.C., we have Montgomery County, Maryland, which is, I think, number three most vaccinated county in America, massive record case counts.

00:13:46.740 And so this idea that if we were just forcing mandating people to be vaccinated, we wouldn't have case counts is completely false if you're paying even the slightest attention to what's happening in the world right now.

00:13:59.240 How much your brief focused very much on, I think, the relevant question of the day, which is what we're dealing with right now is mostly Omicron.

00:14:05.380 Delta is still out there.

00:14:06.340 It's not to say it's gone, but now and certainly very soon from now, it's going to be all about Omicron.

00:14:13.300 So we need to deal with that.

00:14:14.420 And it did come out on Friday's hearing.

00:14:21.560 But with Omicron, it's almost like the vaccine does nothing to prevent the transmission.

00:14:34.540 It still prevents, in most cases, severe disease or death.

00:14:37.660 And that's good.

00:14:38.320 That's why most people choose to get vaccinated.

00:14:39.780 But when we're talking about mandating it from your employer, they're trying to stop contagion.

00:14:44.980 Correct.

00:14:45.700 That's exactly right.

00:14:47.040 What we argue in our brief, and I think the evidence now overwhelming on this point, is that there is a benefit to vaccination, but it's a personal benefit.

00:14:54.960 It is not a public or societal benefit because it only reduces disease severity.

00:15:00.360 It does not reduce your chances of catching the virus or transmitting it to others.

00:15:05.080 And that really undercuts the entire rationale for these mandates.

00:15:08.920 And it's also really important to respect people who choose not to get the vaccine because that's a very personal decision.

00:15:18.300 You know, there is a risk of adverse events, especially if someone's already been infected.

00:15:22.540 That changes the calculation.

00:15:24.180 You don't know their cardiac history.

00:15:25.720 You don't know.

00:15:26.120 That's something that people should decide with their doctors, not by politicians and bureaucrats dictating what's best for everyone.

00:15:32.040 And I think that if you stop thinking about this idea that there's going to be this grand societal benefit, which I think the evidence now shows there won't be, it should be very clear that the right way to think about this is as a personal decision, a personal private health decision that individuals should be able to make with the advice of their doctors.

00:15:49.300 And, you know, I think the evidence on this point right now with Omicron, and we walked through all of this in our brief, it's really overwhelming.

00:15:54.780 There does seem to be a time limited reduction in transmission and the risk of becoming infected, but it seems to wear off after only 60 or 90 days after the second shot and maybe you're talking about Delta after a third shot.

00:16:09.760 So after that, in fact, we see in a lot of these countries, the protection goes negative.

00:16:13.960 You're more likely to get it than someone who's unvaccinated after 60 or 90 days in the Danish and the Canadian data.

00:16:19.860 Let me ask you that.

00:16:20.500 I saw that in your brief.

00:16:22.240 That's an important point.

00:16:23.120 And so you're saying that the Danish and what was the other one?

00:16:28.340 UK?

00:16:30.100 Canadian.

00:16:30.760 It was specifically Ontario.

00:16:33.380 OK, so they concluded that you that after 60 to 90 days, you're more likely to contract COVID if you've had the vaccines than if you haven't.

00:16:44.540 I read that in your brief.

00:16:45.540 But is does that is there an asterisk to that latter point saying if you haven't and you have natural immunity?

00:16:54.540 Yeah, they didn't break the data up in either of those studies.

00:16:57.000 And I suspect that you put your finger on exactly what's happening here, which is the unvaccinated group probably has a lot more natural immunity than the vaccinated group, which is why they're getting infected less.

00:17:08.600 When the vaccine immunity sort of wears off and gets closer to zero, you get more of a comparison of the group with more previously infected versus not previously infected.

00:17:18.560 So to me, most likely it's waning to zero and then you're getting a composition effect from more natural immunity.

00:17:24.700 But we really don't know why the data is showing what it is.

00:17:27.340 And there are some plausible there are some plausible mechanisms that can actually cause reduced immunity.

00:17:33.900 If you have things like antibody dependent enhancement and there there there are physical mechanisms that could cause negative vaccine effectiveness.

00:17:41.540 But I'm not sure that we actually see any evidence of those.

00:17:44.160 It is very possible that it's just what you suggested, that it kind of wanes to zero.

00:17:48.840 And then you have a different composition in terms of natural immunity.

00:17:51.560 But neither of those studies broke that out.

00:17:53.820 So we don't let me ask you about wanes to zero to the last I looked at this was when I had Scott Gottlieb on, former FDA commissioner who now is on the board of Pfizer.

00:18:01.200 And he's touting the vaccines and he's touting the mandates.

00:18:03.360 And I'm telling him a study just came out that day that was published in The Lancet about the Pfizer vaccine, showing that after six months post your second dose, it had only a 47 percent effectiveness at preventing covid, which is not good.

00:18:16.940 And he claimed he hadn't seen it, blah, blah, blah.

00:18:18.900 But that's I mean, that's that's not so good.

00:18:20.560 And it certainly seemed like based on the Israel study and other data, you'd be better off six months post a covid infection at at fighting off a second infection than six months post your second Pfizer vax.

00:18:33.680 But you're you're using zero.

00:18:36.500 Where does that come from?

00:18:37.360 Well, the studies we were just talking about for Omicron, we see that the observed vaccine effectiveness goes negative, which means you're probably not getting any protection at all from the vaccine, even if you were able to correct for those confounders.

00:18:53.800 I think that one of the issues we've got right now, Megan, is they haven't updated this vaccine.

00:18:58.980 And so you're using a vaccine that essentially expresses the spike protein of a two year old now extinct virus while something very different is what's circulating right now.

00:19:08.700 It's as if they were mandating you as, you know, the flu vaccine from five years ago instead of using this year's.

00:19:13.660 You might get some effect, but it's going to be pretty small and short lived.

00:19:17.020 And so I think one of the real failures of the Biden administration and all they do is talk about vaccines all day long.

00:19:22.580 But when we had the sequence for this, they didn't make any expedited effort to actually get a vaccine that was specific to it available.

00:19:31.220 And we're still using this one that was designed for a very different virus.

00:19:35.520 What about the fact that, well, Delta is still out there and the vaccines are a bit more effective at preventing transmission of Delta?

00:19:42.120 I mean, it's nothing to write home about, but it's certainly doing a better job at preventing transmission of Delta than it is Omicron.

00:19:48.340 Well, I mean, I think that it's hard to get a really good handle on how much Delta is still out there.

00:19:55.260 If you believe the CDC, it's pretty close to none.

00:19:57.980 If you look at a state like Illinois that does their own sequencing, they still have about half of the cases being Delta in Illinois and their own genetic sequencing.

00:20:04.440 So we've got a big disconnect here between the CDC saying Delta is gone and some of the state data saying there's still quite a bit of it.

00:20:11.820 To me, where this really becomes important is not so much with the vaccines, because I feel like everyone who wants the vaccines is probably already getting them at this point.

00:20:19.660 To me, where it really becomes important is the availability of the therapeutics, which the Biden administration has really mishandled,

00:20:25.600 because the Regeneron therapeutic, the one that President Trump had, is about 75 or 85 percent effective against the Delta variant in terms of reducing hospitalization and death risk.

00:20:36.140 It's extremely effective. It appears it's less effective against Omicron, probably more like only 40 or 50 percent effective.

00:20:43.500 But, you know, if we were using the PCR test to screen the likely Delta cases, we could be giving everyone in any kind of risk category with a likely Delta case that therapeutic.

00:20:54.360 And I don't know of any state that's really doing it that way.

00:20:56.600 Instead, they're rationing based on race and they're rationing based on seemingly political considerations.

00:21:02.200 And so we're really misusing the tools we have right now to deal with those remaining Delta cases. 0.53

00:21:06.420 And all of our efforts, our public health messaging continues to go into the vaccine, get a vaccination.

00:21:13.560 You must be vaccinated. It's like, stop it. Snap out of it. Stepford, child, come back to me.

00:21:19.320 The reality has changed in so much your mess, so much your messaging.

00:21:22.920 It's so annoying and it's befuddling to watch somebody like Rochelle Walensky until you realize there is zero chance in hell she would have done that to cover for a Justice Alito who had misstated the facts, which leads me to my last second to last question, Phil.

00:21:37.000 And that is Justice Gorsuch took a beating in the press and the left wing press for allegedly misstating how much flu we deal with each year.

00:21:47.080 They're saying that he they're claiming that he said hundreds of thousands of people die from the flu every year.

00:21:56.740 And you were the one because I've been following your Twitter, which is amazing.

00:22:00.240 And everyone should follow Phil Kirpan at Twitter on Twitter.

00:22:03.700 You were saying just listen to it.

00:22:06.840 You're holding against him a transcription error.

00:22:10.280 So I did go back and listen to it.

00:22:12.240 Man, I'll listen to this audience members that the left wing press is saying this is Justice Gorsuch.

00:22:17.060 This is a Trump appointee to the Supreme Court.

00:22:19.160 They're saying this is him falsely claiming hundreds of thousands of people die in America each year from the flu.

00:22:27.140 Phil says wrong.

00:22:29.160 Listen for yourselves.

00:22:30.340 We we have it butted a few times.

00:22:33.800 Flu kills, I believe, hundreds, thousands of people every year.

00:22:38.280 Flu kills, I believe, hundreds, thousands of people every year.

00:22:42.740 Flu kills, I believe, hundreds, thousands of people every year.

00:22:46.600 So there's no of there's no of in there, Phil.

00:22:51.740 Yeah, it's one of it's like an emperor's new clothes thing.

00:22:54.280 People who are really, really liberal, true believers insist that they hear a silent of in that sentence, including a guy named Jason Lemon, who writes for Newsweek, who refuses to correct his article on this.

00:23:06.020 Even after the audio was pointed out to him.

00:23:08.060 And by the way, the transcription error has now been corrected on the Supreme Court website.

00:23:12.880 And so they point to that as the basis for their claim anymore.

00:23:15.840 Now, the transcription error is corrected.

00:23:17.960 It's clear what he was saying.

00:23:19.280 I'd like to see a lot of corrections and apologies.

00:23:21.540 I'm not sure we'll get those.

00:23:22.940 They wanted an alibi for not covering the insane things that the liberal justice falsely asserted.

00:23:29.260 And so they seized on what was obviously a transcription error to smear a conservative justice.

00:23:34.660 And by the way, Megan, that was actually a really good line of questioning from Gorsuch.

00:23:38.400 The point that he was making was kind of, you know, what's the limiting principle here to this idea that OSHA should mandate vaccines because viruses constitute workplace hazards.

00:23:49.080 And he said, you know, flu kills thousands of people every year.

00:23:52.100 Could you mandate a flu vaccine?

00:23:53.580 Why haven't you ever mandated a flu vaccine?

00:23:55.280 And the government's response was really interesting.

00:23:56.960 They said, well, we could.

00:23:58.300 We could do that.

00:23:58.880 We'd have to develop a record first.

00:24:00.200 So I thought it was a very interesting line of questioning.

00:24:05.520 And, you know, sort of instead of covering that line of questioning, they used it as a trans. 0.89

00:24:09.580 They used this transcription error to call him stupid and give themselves an alibi for not covering the things the liberal justices really did say. 0.95

00:24:16.760 Right. Crazy stuff. 1.00

00:24:17.540 And by the way, you know, in just in terms of misstatements, at one point, Justice Breyer said 750 million people got Omicron the day before, got COVID the day before.

00:24:26.700 So, OK.

00:24:27.140 OK, last thing.

00:24:29.780 When do we expect a decision?

00:24:31.320 Because there was some debate on openly on Friday about when they need to give us one because the mandate's about to kick in on the 10th.

00:24:37.900 When do we expect a decision?

00:24:39.260 And how do you think it's likely to come down?

00:24:42.740 Well, I think we'll get something today.

00:24:44.420 We'll get something today, even if it's just a brief administrative stay while they figure out what the actual decision is going to be, because as you pointed out, the effective data will go shorter is today.

00:24:52.940 So I think we'll see something today.

00:24:54.520 I don't know if it'll just be, you know, give us a few more days administrative stay or we'll get an actual decision.

00:24:58.940 But I'm cautiously optimistic on the OSHA mandate.

00:25:02.700 I think that other than the three in the tank liberal justices, the other six were very skeptical of the idea that Congress had authorized OSHA to do this and OSHA Act, you know, 50 years ago.

00:25:13.940 And I think that on the basis of what they call their major questions doctrine, it's pretty likely that the six Republican appointed justices will all agree.

00:25:24.000 On the CMS health worker case, I'm less optimistic.

00:25:27.720 That statute is much broader in its language.

00:25:31.320 And we've got a lot of justices that I think want to decide on the basis of the statutory language.

00:25:36.200 You've got Roberts, who always likes to play both sides and triangulate things.

00:25:39.940 And so that one, I feel, is going to be a 5-4.

00:25:42.760 It could be a 5-4 in either direction.

00:25:44.440 I have less of a good feeling on that one.

00:25:45.960 And that just speaks to the health care workers as opposed to any worker at any business that has more than 100 employees who are swept up.

00:25:53.900 That's two out of three employers in America.

00:25:56.320 That's what they're swept up in sort of the first challenge that the Supreme Court is trying to decide.

00:26:00.760 Phil Kirpin, I would like to thank you for being a source of actual good information from the beginning of this thing.

00:26:07.280 As I say, if you would like it directly, follow Phil on Twitter.

00:26:10.500 And I hope you come back.

00:26:12.880 Anytime, Megan.

00:26:14.020 All the best.

00:26:14.580 Up next, we're going to talk about schools with Corey DeAngelis of the American Federation for Children.

00:26:20.060 The teachers in Chicago continue to refuse to teach.

00:26:24.540 And just as we'd like to exempt the actual teachers, you know, sort of say it's the unions, which nine times out of ten, it really is union-led nonsense.

00:26:32.400 It's 73% of the teachers there who support this.

00:26:35.280 I mean, you can't really say that here.

00:26:36.980 It's the Chicago teachers themselves.

00:26:39.100 They don't want to teach the children.

00:26:42.120 They just want to collect the check.

00:26:43.740 That's next.

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00:27:13.940 Canada Life.

00:27:14.640 Insurance, investments, insurance, investments, advice.

00:27:17.280 Join me now as a strong advocate for school choice, especially in the wake of these COVID school closures.

00:27:28.720 Corey DeAngelis, National Director of Research at American Federation for Children, adjunct scholar at the Cato Institute and senior fellow at the Reason Foundation.

00:27:38.040 Corey, thank you so much for being here.

00:27:39.440 So let's kick it off with what the latest is in Chicago, where it appears the teachers just refuse to teach.

00:27:46.700 They're just they just won't.

00:27:48.080 Yeah, look, they decided to close school for another day today.

00:27:52.500 And since the fourth day of school closures, they're holding children's education hostage nearly two years into this since this all started.

00:28:01.500 And there's no excuse for it now.

00:28:03.420 Every other business essentially has been able to figure it out.

00:28:06.600 Private schools and daycares were somehow magically able to be open essentially the entire time.

00:28:12.420 Grocery stores were able to be open essentially the entire time.

00:28:15.840 And I think the problem here is that the main difference is one of incentives that in the private sector, the the schools and every business understands that their customers can take their money elsewhere.

00:28:27.020 When it comes to the public school teachers unions, they get your money regardless of whether they open their doors for business.

00:28:31.480 So they fight as hard as possible to keep their doors closed in order to secure additional ransom payments from the taxpayer in perpetuity.

00:28:39.580 It's a never ending cycle. And we're seeing that play out in Chicago, where look, in Chicago, they've already received two point eight billion dollars over over eight thousand dollars per student in Chicago since March of 2020.

00:28:51.960 And federal, quote unquote, covid relief that was really had nothing to do with safety from the beginning of all this.

00:28:58.500 It's really had to do more with politics and power than anything else.

00:29:01.800 And they're still closed because they figured out that they can use the closures as leverage to get even more money.

00:29:08.820 And look, they're going to continue doing this.

00:29:11.400 And I think the only way to get out of this problem is to fund the student directly.

00:29:15.420 Chicago spends over twenty seven thousand dollars per student per year.

00:29:19.720 Now, according to their twenty twenty two budget, average private school tuition is only about eleven thousand dollars in Chicago.

00:29:26.860 Why not give most, if not all of that funding to the parent and let them figure it out?

00:29:32.360 That's the only way I think you get out of this so that the school actually has an incentive from the bottom up to cater to the needs of families as opposed to the other way around.

00:29:40.320 That is amazing. Two point eight billion dollars in federal covid funding from the elementary and secondary school emergency relief fund just to Chicago public schools alone.

00:29:52.100 So what did they do with the money? Right. That you read the Wall Street Journal.

00:29:56.260 Fox News was reporting. OK, so they spent it on laptops because, of course, they want to make sure everybody can do the remote learning.

00:30:03.320 That was number one priority for these teachers.

00:30:06.160 They spent twenty six million on safety equipment, medical equipment, masks, air purifiers, other items intended to make schools safer.

00:30:13.060 All the Chicago teachers went to the front of the line when it came to the vaccines, when they were still sparse.

00:30:17.880 None of it is enough. None of it will ever be enough.

00:30:22.640 That's exactly right, Megan. It'll never be enough because they can always argue as to why they need more money.

00:30:27.300 The way that I put it before is that underperforming private schools shut down, underperforming government schools get more money.

00:30:33.380 Why? Because they can say, well, we're underperforming and failing because we don't have enough money, even though since 1960 in the U.S.,

00:30:39.980 we've increased per pupil education expenditures by two hundred and eighty seven percent after adjusting for inflation.

00:30:46.280 That's before all the covid bailouts. We'll see when the data come out on that.

00:30:50.320 But we're seeing individual districts increasing per pupil education expenditures over the past couple of years in places like Los Angeles,

00:30:57.420 where the data has already surfaced by about 60, 70 percent over a couple of years.

00:31:02.860 It's just absolutely horrendous. And if you look at how they're spending the money in places like Los Angeles, the district officials laid out a plan a few months ago and they said they pointed out that six percent of their student population has left.

00:31:15.160 There's this mass exodus occurring from the government school system right now because a lot of parents are fed up with it.

00:31:21.060 And the remote learning, we really shouldn't even call it remote learning because the kids aren't learning all that much.

00:31:25.480 If you look at the data on that from McKinsey and Company and so many other studies on the topic, we should call it remote instruction, if anything,

00:31:34.860 or maybe remotely learning or maybe remotely learning because you're not learning all that much.

00:31:38.500 The school closures have hurt kids academically and in other ways, too, mentally, physically.

00:31:43.900 We've seen obesity in children increase substantially over the past couple of a year and a half.

00:31:49.720 And we've seen teenage suicide attempts increase by about 31 percent over the past year and a half.

00:31:57.220 It's just absolutely horrendous that they're still playing this school closure card to to use that as leverage for even more money from the taxpayer.

00:32:07.200 And there's no there's no real way out of it except for bottom up accountability.

00:32:11.800 If your grocery store closes, you can take your money elsewhere.

00:32:15.280 If a Walmart closes for whatever reason or if the employees go on strike as a customer, I can take my money to Trader Joe's or or Safeway or Harris Teeter.

00:32:24.680 But when your public school closes, families are stuck in between this tug of war between the district and the union.

00:32:32.020 And the customer feels all the pain in the current government school system.

00:32:36.280 That's the problem here.

00:32:37.660 And thankfully, it's finally being exposed for the nonsense that it is.

00:32:43.160 There's this messed up set of incentives that are baked into the government school system where they get your money regardless.

00:32:48.800 And in fact, the worst they do, they can actually profit from that.

00:32:52.400 And we're seeing that play out with the school closures.

00:32:54.860 And the way that I put it before is that covid didn't break the government school system.

00:32:58.980 It was already broken in the past year and a half, almost two years now, simply shined a spotlight on the main problem with K to 12 education all across the country,

00:33:08.000 which happens to be a massive, long existing power imbalance between the public school monopoly and individual families.

00:33:16.280 But look, the jig is up.

00:33:18.100 Teachers unions have overplayed their hand.

00:33:19.900 Twenty twenty one was already the year of school choice.

00:33:22.100 Or if you're hip with the lingo, it's the year that we fund students, not systems.

00:33:26.060 And 19 states in twenty twenty one alone expanded or enacted programs to fund people as opposed to buildings to allow families to take their children's education dollars to a private or homeschool setting.

00:33:38.800 If they don't like whatever's going on in their public school and support for school choice in the minds of voters, according to nationwide polling, has been surging as well.

00:33:48.900 I want to get to that. I want to get to that because if it's it's all red states, it's not as necessary like what we need is bills like that that become law in blue states where the teachers unions are the strongest.

00:33:59.700 And they're they remain extremely strong because they're the ones who get Democrats elected.

00:34:03.460 I mean, Barack Obama was entirely beholden to the teachers union and so are the state governors in the blue states.

00:34:08.880 It's disgusting if you spend any time thinking about these folks, thinking that these folks care about your kids, you're wrong.

00:34:15.220 They care about the money they get from the unions.

00:34:17.920 That's exactly the problem here. And look, we saw this play out in twenty twenty twenty one as well, where you had a red state Kentucky with a blue governor, Andy Beshear.

00:34:28.760 He was a school choice hypocrite. He vetoed a bill that came to his desk that would have funded students directly. 0.87

00:34:35.800 Thankfully, they had enough votes to override his veto, but he attended private school at one point and he sent his kids to private school, which is great.

00:34:43.600 I'm happy for him. I think every family should seek out the best education for their children, but they shouldn't fight against school choice for other families.

00:34:50.980 Thankfully, they had enough votes to override that veto in Kentucky.

00:34:53.640 Joe Biden exclusive almost exclusively attended private schools, sent his kids to private schools, his children attended private, his grandchildren attended private schools.

00:35:03.200 That's great again, but they should not fight against other families from having that having that same opportunity.

00:35:09.760 And I will say it's not a Republican versus Democrat thing in theory or even among the majority of constituents.

00:35:17.240 If you look at nationwide polling on this, in fact, over the past year and a half, the biggest jumps in support for the concept of the money following the child has been among Democrats and parents who had kids in the public school system that happened to fail them so much starting in March of twenty twenty.

00:35:34.440 But you're talking about people to wake up. You're talking about constituencies, constituencies.

00:35:39.340 Yeah, that's right. But the leaders are the unions are too important to them. 0.92

00:35:43.800 I mean, I see your point. Once the once the populace starts to get it, ideally, you have a change at the top in the leadership.

00:35:49.960 But so far, not so much. I mean, you can't think of a group that's that these Democratic politicians are more beholden to than the unions.

00:35:59.280 Yes, there's a disconnect between the people on the ground, the actual families, Democrat, Republican, independent, the Democrats in particular, and their people in office at the state houses.

00:36:10.060 Democrats are substantially in state houses, much less likely to vote for school choice bills.

00:36:15.060 And you're right. It's because the teachers union donations, if you think about Randy Weingarten's union, the American Federation of Teachers, for example, every single campaign cycle.

00:36:25.020 If you look at the Open Secrets website since 1990, the past three decades, over ninety seven percent of their campaign contributions went to Democrat political candidates as opposed to Republicans.

00:36:36.860 And so when you when you're in office as a Democrat, they're listening to the needs of the teachers unions and they have been for far too long.

00:36:45.920 But I feel like in since covid has exposed all the problems with the government school system, even Democrats in office are having to start to think a little bit harder because there's been this new special interest group that has emerged over the past year and a half,

00:36:59.600 which happens to be parents who want more of a say in their kids education, parents have woken up and they're holding politicians accountable more than they ever have before.

00:37:10.660 So instead of just having the teachers unions to answer to politicians from all backgrounds are having to listen to the needs of parents, hopefully going forward.

00:37:19.940 And I will say, just think about the logic, right?

00:37:21.700 Like there's an inconsistency in the logic when it comes to Democrats who oppose school choice, because we already fund students directly when it comes to higher education with Pell grants, for example, for low income kids.

00:37:33.020 The money doesn't go straight to the community college and then the student doesn't have to go to a residentially assigned higher education provider.

00:37:40.540 Instead, the money rightfully goes to the student and they can choose the community college if they want.

00:37:45.460 But they can also choose a public university, a private university or even a religious university.

00:37:50.240 The money follows the decision of the student.

00:37:52.580 We do the same thing with the federal Head Start program and other pre-K programs.

00:37:57.100 Think about it.

00:37:57.560 The money doesn't go straight to a residentially assigned government run provider of pre-K.

00:38:01.860 Instead, the money goes to the family and they can choose public or private, religious or non-religious.

00:38:06.640 The same concept and logic applies to food stamps, Medicaid, Section 8 housing vouchers.

00:38:12.300 Just imagine if we forced low income families to take their food stamp dollars to a residentially assigned government run grocery store. 0.98

00:38:18.420 That would be absolutely horrendous.

00:38:20.760 And all I'm arguing is that we should apply the same logic to K-12 education and fund people, not buildings.

00:38:27.840 The problem is you had you had Randy Weingarten.

00:38:30.220 Let me just jump in.

00:38:31.080 You had Randy Weingarten, you know, who runs the second largest teachers union in the United States celebrating.

00:38:35.760 I saw you tweeted this.

00:38:36.960 The tabling of a school choice bill in New Hampshire.

00:38:40.340 I mean, she's openly against it.

00:38:41.860 They hate school choice.

00:38:42.800 The unions, the heads of the unions, they don't want it.

00:38:44.700 But in a small sign of light, as you point out, some of these Democratic politicians are starting to get it that this is a problem and that you can't have, you know, zero school choice from these Democrat politicians as a policy matter while they all send their kids to private schools.

00:39:02.120 And I saw that you were remarking on this guy from New Hampshire, a Democratic state senator there, I think it was, Justin Wayne.

00:39:09.620 Again, this is a Democrat who's putting exactly that challenge to other lawmakers in his state.

00:39:15.680 We have the sound bite.

00:39:16.400 Listen.

00:39:16.540 The only people who are opposing school choice today are the same people who have choice.

00:39:24.220 This has been a very growing pain for me as I was against this bill my freshman year and the last three, four years struggled where I was going to be on it.

00:39:37.660 But my community can't wait anymore.

00:39:40.920 Here's my offer.

00:39:41.700 I will vote to kill this bill if you send your kids to one of the kids' schools in my district that were waiting to turn around.

00:39:52.660 Everybody get on the mic and let's make that promise.

00:39:54.880 Let's transfer the kids. 1.00

00:39:55.860 So as we spend six, seven years in elementary school changing a school, your kid be a part of that change.

00:40:03.140 And when they fall behind, when they don't have the resources, allegedly, when they're dealing with suspensions and things like that, then we can all go through it together.

00:40:15.400 So that's Justin Wayne of Nebraska.

00:40:18.820 The bill that Randy celebrated was in New Hampshire falling apart.

00:40:22.480 But this is in Nebraska.

00:40:23.520 And he's basically saying what you're saying, which is great.

00:40:26.040 You don't you don't want school choice.

00:40:27.440 You want all the kids to have to stay in the public school.

00:40:29.040 I get it.

00:40:29.660 You first you start by keeping all your kids in the public school and then we can deny the right to the citizenry.

00:40:37.000 Yeah.

00:40:37.200 Total legend.

00:40:38.140 Justin Wayne in Nebraska.

00:40:39.380 And he's referring to LB364 over there in Nebraska.

00:40:43.520 They're actually debating it this week, I believe.

00:40:46.100 And yeah, I mean, the logic is sound when it comes to the supporting school choice.

00:40:50.540 We already fund people directly with essentially every other industry and level of education, which raises the question, why would you support it for everything else?

00:40:57.760 But only when it comes to the in-between years of K-12 education, you have a problem with it.

00:41:02.500 The obvious answer to me is that there's a difference of power dynamics.

00:41:05.860 That there's choice choice is the norm when it comes to higher education, pre-K and everything else in the United States for now, thankfully.

00:41:14.040 But choice threatens an entrenched special interest only when it comes to those in-between years of K-12 education, the teachers unions, most of all.

00:41:23.880 And so they fight as hard as possible, of course, to against any change to the status quo.

00:41:28.860 And their main argument will be, oh, school choice sounds fine and all, but, you know, school choice steals money from the public schools, to which I'll respond, the money doesn't belong to the government schools in the first place.

00:41:39.340 No one would say that allowing families to choose their grocery store stole money from Walmart.

00:41:44.440 That wouldn't make any sense because we all understand that your money, even if it's food stamp dollars that's funded by the taxpayer, it doesn't belong to any of the institutions, Walmart or Safeway or Trader Joe's.

00:41:54.500 The money is meant for the family. And similarly, K-12 education dollars are meant for educating children, not for propping up and protecting a particular institution, which funds students, not systems.

00:42:07.700 It's basically asking for a meritocracy. If the schools are so confident, you know, in their product, in their ability, in the teacher's ability to connect with students that actually teach them, you shouldn't worry about school choice.

00:42:18.120 No problem with the money file follows the student because, you know, your students are going to stay with you.

00:42:22.240 I mean, I know one of the best one of the best teachers in the country. She happens to be a friend of mine. 0.91

00:42:27.300 She teaches in New Jersey and she's in a lower socioeconomic area and lower socioeconomic school where there are a lot of kids of Hispanic background who struggle when they come into the classroom.

00:42:38.360 And she works tirelessly night and day to make sure that they learn and they get through and they thrive and her students do.

00:42:44.940 So she's she's winning the meritocracy. Sadly, not all teachers are like that.

00:42:50.580 Many, many teachers are like the ones in Chicago who want to refuse to work.

00:42:55.200 Seventy three percent, they're saying of them, some seventy three percent of these teachers refuse to work.

00:43:00.420 They should all be fired, as far as I'm concerned, if they don't show up.

00:43:03.060 And while they collect their paychecks and this I'm going to squeeze in a quick break, Corey, but I have to play it whenever we talk about Chicago because it's so disgusting.

00:43:12.540 Let me just we're going to go to break watching, watching the teachers who are now saying they cannot work because they're so terrified of covid.

00:43:19.500 This was them doing their interpretive dance protest last year.

00:43:23.600 Young, able bodied teachers who want to show you how scared they are of covid by leaping around their living rooms so you can understand just how fragile they are.

00:43:31.260 Watch. Make it make sense.

00:43:40.800 Safety.

00:43:43.440 Is essential.

00:43:47.440 Keep our students and our teachers.

00:43:52.440 Safe.

00:43:56.740 Safe. 0.99

00:43:57.300 Get your asses back to work. 0.97

00:44:01.960 That's what you get the paycheck for. 0.99

00:44:04.800 All right.

00:44:05.020 I'm standing you by there.

00:44:05.940 We'll be back in one minute.

00:44:07.720 Don't forget, folks, you can find the Megan Kelly show live on Sirius XM Triumph Channel 111 every weekday at noon east.

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00:44:19.600 Well, it's doing really well lately, so we'd love to have you go over, hit subscribe.

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00:45:01.160 In Chicago, there's an interesting move by parents to sue the school district, saying that this is effectively a union strike.

00:45:16.840 And while 73 percent of the teachers is a lot, it's not quite enough to justify a strike, saying you don't have the legal right as teachers to dictate whether the schools are open or closed.

00:45:29.200 I like this as a means of fighting back.

00:45:32.580 But the reality is it's not just happening in Chicago.

00:45:35.500 I know you've written about Detroit, where you say that they're suffering there from the little known Friday variant of covid, where they've just given up school on Fridays, allegedly because of covid.

00:45:47.100 Yeah, because covid knows. Right.

00:45:48.940 I mean, there's all this weird stuff that's happened over the past couple of years that really just shows how ridiculous it is.

00:45:54.360 I mean, in one place in Sacramento County in California, there's a story about they had a closure rule that arbitrarily applied to schools, but not to daycares, because obviously covid knows if you're learning something, then they're going to it's going to get you.

00:46:11.240 And similarly, all across the country, there were at least 10 states that I counted where the public schools where they were saying it wasn't safe enough for them to open.

00:46:20.400 So they were doing the remote learning stuff that we shouldn't call learning because they're not learning all that much anyway.

00:46:24.880 It's remote instruction or even more accurately, it's just a school closure.

00:46:28.480 But they were opening the same schools for daycare services, the same buildings and charging parents out of pocket for something that they're already paying for through the property tax system. 0.70

00:46:40.860 It's just absolutely absolutely ridiculous. And it really just showed people, you know, how stupid this is. 1.00

00:46:46.500 Same thing with Detroit. They're planning on closing on Fridays before the winter break. 1.00

00:46:51.240 And, yeah, it's like it's like the what does the virus know that it's Friday and that's the only day it's going to get you.

00:46:57.500 And so you can't go to school on Fridays. I mean, we all understood what it was.

00:47:00.980 It was a way to to lengthen the weekend. And we're seeing this post winter break.

00:47:05.760 They want to extend the winter break. And I don't think it's because the people in the system are are bad or incompetent.

00:47:11.800 I think the problem is one of incentives. It's the system itself where you get the same amount of money,

00:47:18.460 regardless of of the satisfaction of the customers in no other industry.

00:47:23.680 Does this does this happen? And I think that's why we saw the grocery stores open.

00:47:27.520 We saw the private schools open. We saw pretty much everything else running normally as fast as possible,

00:47:33.380 except for the schools that which happened to be the public schools, which happened to be one of the safest places,

00:47:38.960 especially for kids who are at very little risk of mortality from the virus.

00:47:44.080 Mm hmm. And and yet, you know, even when they go to the schools and believe me, I much prefer open schools to close schools,

00:47:51.100 but they get there. And what kind of schooling are they actually getting when they have to wear the masks all day

00:47:55.120 and they're in between the plexiglass barriers and they have to stay six feet apart from everybody

00:47:59.180 and they have to run around playing basketball with masks on, which is highly questionable.

00:48:03.800 And they're scared by their teachers day in and day out about a virus that really has absolutely no effect on children.

00:48:09.480 For the most part, it's just that's a subject for our next time.

00:48:12.780 But, Corey, I really appreciate all the good work you've been doing on this.

00:48:15.700 Thank you so much for coming on today. Thank you so much, Megan.

00:48:19.600 Next up, one of our favorite independent journalists, Matt Taibbi, is here with some great, great thoughts on January 6th.

00:48:28.620 And you hear AOC has COVID. Don't go away.

00:48:32.380 Joining me now, Matt Taibbi, editor for the TK News Substack and co-host of the Useful Idiots podcast 0.77

00:48:46.200 and one of the most fair journalists working today.

00:48:49.680 Great to have you back on the show, Matt. How's it going?

00:48:52.480 It's going great, Megan. Thank you for having me.

00:48:54.720 All right. Let's start with Rochelle Walensky, who doesn't seem to understand the concept of just being a truth teller 0.87

00:48:59.980 and not a cover the ass of Sonia Sotomayor player.

00:49:04.260 She was asked by Brett Baer repeatedly over the weekend when he's hosting Fox News Sunday temporarily now. 0.97

00:49:10.780 And they're rotating cast. But in any event, he asked her repeatedly what she said was wrong.

00:49:17.780 There aren't 100,000 children in hospitals and on ventilators.

00:49:22.300 There haven't even been that many since the beginning of the pandemic.

00:49:26.060 Right. Dodge. But she goes to vaccines. 0.99

00:49:28.920 What we really need is vaccines, vaccines, vaccines, vaccines for children.

00:49:32.240 Whoever is in the hospital hasn't had a vaccine.

00:49:34.420 And then only when he pushes her again, does she finally say, yeah, OK, it's not true.

00:49:38.120 But vaccines, vaccines.

00:49:40.620 The interview went like that for 20 minutes.

00:49:42.640 I mean, back and forth and back and forth.

00:49:44.780 And what I said at the top of the show was what it showed me is she's a partisan.

00:49:48.140 She thinks it's her job to cover for Sotomayor as opposed to our advocate

00:49:53.080 to correct the record when a major misstatement of fact is made at something as prominent

00:49:57.280 as a Supreme Court hearing.

00:50:00.280 Yeah. And this is a phenomenon that's been going on for a while.

00:50:03.220 And as a journalist, it bothers me a lot because, you know, I grew up in the school

00:50:08.800 where reporters weren't really supposed to care all that much about what the impact of

00:50:15.380 the news was.

00:50:16.080 Like our primary concern was getting the information right.

00:50:19.160 And then what the audience did with that information was up to them.

00:50:23.620 So when you have something like somebody misreporting, you know, a fact that badly,

00:50:30.280 the idea is to worry about getting the fact right.

00:50:34.640 Whereas I think the psychology of both politicians and journalists now is how is this going to

00:50:42.200 be received?

00:50:42.920 Are people going to behave in the wrong way when they get this information?

00:50:47.060 And so they worry about that even when the information is true.

00:50:51.120 And I think when you see people hesitating to tell you a true fact, it creates a lot of

00:50:58.220 distrust in the news media.

00:50:59.680 Yes, that's what I was feeling when watching her.

00:51:03.320 You know, we're at already a crisis point when it comes to public health and distrust of

00:51:08.380 our officials, thanks to Fauci's, quote, noble lies and her previous hysteria and just the

00:51:15.000 policies coming out of these organizations for months now.

00:51:17.540 And given the chance to be the sober, you know, factual medical person, this is a no brainer.

00:51:26.960 Even so Sonia Sotomayor at this point would have to admit she was wrong.

00:51:31.760 And I'll bet you anything she's embarrassed that none of these Supreme Court justices tries 1.00

00:51:36.280 to be intentionally nonfactual.

00:51:38.440 Right.

00:51:38.960 They try.

00:51:39.340 They do, I think, at least try to stick with the facts.

00:51:41.440 She got it so wrong. 0.97

00:51:43.000 Instead of taking that opportunity, she went hard partisan, covered the ass of Sonia Sotomayor, 0.99

00:51:48.340 something I guarantee she wouldn't have done if Alito were out there saying something as 0.89

00:51:52.600 nonfactual as the vaccines don't prevent severe disease.

00:51:55.640 She would have been all over that. 0.69

00:51:57.940 Right.

00:51:58.360 Yeah.

00:51:58.800 No, of course.

00:52:00.000 And yeah, I very much doubt Justice Sotomayor wants people doubling down on her behalf.

00:52:08.100 It's a bad look for her. 0.69

00:52:10.820 But I think it's I think it's very telling that she made that mistake because I think it

00:52:17.460 speaks to sort of what's in the ether in the media universe right now.

00:52:21.900 It's just that there's there's so much information that is leading people to believe that certain

00:52:28.620 things are true that are not.

00:52:30.780 I think, you know, we've all seen the stat that although there are certainly misconceptions

00:52:36.000 among Republicans and conservatives about COVID, when you look at people who lean Democratic,

00:52:43.260 the misconceptions that they tend to have are along the lines of, well, what's the percentage

00:52:48.340 chance you're going to be hospitalized if you end up with COVID?

00:52:51.120 And then the real answer is something like one percent.

00:52:53.320 And according to polls, most people think it's closer to 50 if you, you know, if you're

00:52:58.980 a Democrat.

00:53:01.140 So so that that tells you that tells you that probably people who consume media of that sort,

00:53:06.940 their head is in a certain place already, which I guess would probably be true of Justice

00:53:11.460 Sotomayor as well.

00:53:12.980 They're not they're not on, you know, on the alert for for a mistake like that.

00:53:17.240 Mm hmm.

00:53:17.940 And it's fine if they want to live their lives like that privately and just do their

00:53:21.160 own thing.

00:53:21.640 I mean, I told the story last week.

00:53:23.000 My one friend knows somebody who who plastic wrapped her daughter in her bedroom when she

00:53:27.440 found out the daughter had COVID.

00:53:29.000 I mean, people are losing their ever loving minds.

00:53:31.680 So good.

00:53:32.360 You want to plastic wrap your kid in the room with appropriate.

00:53:35.680 Is that a true story?

00:53:36.880 Yeah.

00:53:37.280 Yeah.

00:53:37.580 A hundred percent.

00:53:38.140 I mean, my New York City friends have the most insane COVID stories ever.

00:53:41.840 Most insane.

00:53:42.760 You saw the woman who got arrested last week because she put her kid. 1.00

00:53:45.180 This is a woman in Texas, put her kid in the trunk because he had tested positive for

00:53:48.480 COVID and she was going to get a COVID test.

00:53:50.560 And I guess she needed to take him with her for some reason, even though he's a teenager. 0.98

00:53:53.320 She put him in the trunk so she couldn't get the I mean, people are nuts. 0.99

00:53:56.840 If you want to be nuts. 0.99

00:53:57.920 Great. 0.93

00:53:58.660 Unless it crosses the legal line in terms of the safety of others around you.

00:54:01.420 But they're affecting our lives.

00:54:02.680 Matt, this this came up in the context of a discussion about whether your employer should

00:54:06.700 be able to stick a needle in your arm.

00:54:07.940 Yeah.

00:54:10.360 And there's there's so much line blurring like that's intentional again that's going

00:54:16.380 on in the press.

00:54:19.000 And that again, that really bothers me.

00:54:21.280 I think a lot of these issues are really difficult.

00:54:23.420 They're really hard to work out.

00:54:25.960 You know, the I'm not sure how I feel about a whole range of COVID related issues.

00:54:31.080 But the one thing I know I I feel is that I want access to to the real information.

00:54:37.420 And I see I see constantly it happening that that people who are sort of anti mandate

00:54:44.600 they're referred to as anti vaxxers like that distinction is not a meaningless distinction.

00:54:50.380 It's a big distinction.

00:54:52.160 But you see these these lines being sort of nothing sorry not cross blurred all the time.

00:54:57.780 And I think it's intentional because they they want to create this atmosphere of terror

00:55:03.920 and and and fright among the population, sometimes for commercial reasons, but also for political

00:55:10.220 reasons.

00:55:11.700 So speaking of creating an atmosphere of terror, Novak Djokovic, can you believe they are treating

00:55:17.780 this guy like he is walking around?

00:55:21.180 Yeah, I don't know, with leprosy, the plague, you know, the most hideous communicable diseases

00:55:26.900 in our human history, I think the latest is he just got allowed to leave his weird little

00:55:33.100 Australian temporary prison and is moving to a better facility and might have a visa like 0.99

00:55:40.880 to play.

00:55:41.680 Well, maybe I'm not sure they might have a visa to play, although it's not clear, but he's

00:55:46.440 not entirely out of the woods yet.

00:55:47.940 So what do you make of how Australia is treating the world's number one tennis player?

00:55:51.020 Yeah, that sounds to me like it's it could be a grounds for like an old Woody Allen style

00:55:58.800 spoof.

00:55:59.780 I mean, he's going to end up playing the tournament in some kind of weird inflatable bubble so

00:56:05.420 he doesn't infect everybody.

00:56:07.300 The whole Australia thing is, I guess, it's just like an exaggerated paradise version of

00:56:14.100 what's going on in the United States.

00:56:15.440 But I mean, I'm listening to officials say things like there are only three reasons to go

00:56:18.980 outside and work isn't one of them.

00:56:21.020 And yeah, and I mean, I, I guess, you know, that this is a strategy that you could logically

00:56:30.440 talk yourself into.

00:56:31.580 But especially as we see the disease mutate into something that's less lethal, and we

00:56:39.240 have such a high percentage of people who are vaccinated anyway, it becomes more and more

00:56:44.220 irrational and it's more and more clear that this is this is just basically a moral panic

00:56:48.640 at this point, it seems to me.

00:56:51.900 All right.

00:56:52.100 So the latest from Daily Mail is Djokovic, his bid to play in the Australian Open, which

00:56:56.840 he's won nine times, still hangs in the balance as Australia's immigration minister is considering

00:57:04.580 recanceling his visa tomorrow.

00:57:08.240 Recanceling.

00:57:08.760 So he had it.

00:57:10.000 I guess it was canceled.

00:57:10.920 It was reinstated.

00:57:11.860 They may recancel it tomorrow.

00:57:13.140 He hit the court for a midnight training session as the court granted him freedom for now.

00:57:18.260 So he's got to practice at midnight when nobody else is there.

00:57:21.020 He doesn't have covid.

00:57:22.840 He emerged.

00:57:24.300 He had covid in December.

00:57:25.620 So he's probably the most immune.

00:57:28.260 Right.

00:57:28.420 They're like the people who just had it at the most immune, probably less likely to communicate

00:57:32.880 it than somebody who just got the vaccines.

00:57:34.520 Right.

00:57:35.260 But still midnight training and maybe back in jail.

00:57:38.160 All this as you know, we we can't seem to get our arms around what will prevent covid because

00:57:44.640 even AOC, who just got the booster, she has a covid.

00:57:47.740 She has like the guy who argued the Supreme Court case on Friday arguing against the mandates

00:57:52.140 just got boosted.

00:57:53.460 He has covid.

00:57:54.320 He had to do it remotely.

00:57:55.100 Everyone's got covid.

00:57:56.640 Even the people who are triple vaxxed.

00:57:58.540 That's the reality.

00:58:01.220 Yeah.

00:58:01.400 And people, the illusion that you're you're going to completely prevent this is is madness,

00:58:07.340 I think, at this point.

00:58:09.040 You know, I lived in the former Soviet Union for 12 years.

00:58:11.720 The Russians coming out of the Soviet era, they had a concept called the Malikitsar or the

00:58:19.880 little czar.

00:58:21.600 And that's every minor official in a in a despotic system tends to want to maximize the amount

00:58:28.840 of power that they can enforce over you.

00:58:32.140 And I think we're seeing that that same kind of instinct come out in Western democracies

00:58:39.660 now where you see all these people who are working in whether it's immigration or some

00:58:44.760 kind of health authority or whatever it is, and they're asserting emergency authority and

00:58:49.580 they like it.

00:58:50.420 You know, I think that's a very troubling development because we're not used to seeing this, this

00:58:56.540 whole idea of unlimited executive authority being exercised in all directions.

00:59:03.300 That's sort of a new phenomenon in day to day life, you know, in the Western world.

00:59:09.920 So I'm worried about it for sure.

00:59:11.840 People have taken it.

00:59:12.700 We tolerate it a lot.

00:59:14.000 You know, there's a real question, especially here in America, about how much we would tolerate

00:59:16.900 in terms of the erosions of our freedoms.

00:59:19.060 You have to wear this this thing over your face.

00:59:21.640 I mean, so intimate is such an intimate restriction everywhere you're going.

00:59:25.980 And your children have to wear them all day long.

00:59:28.840 And you have to stick a needle in your five year old's arm.

00:59:32.540 Eric Adams, he came out and said, the schools will stay open.

00:59:35.280 Great.

00:59:35.840 Love it.

00:59:36.400 And then he said, and everyone has to be vaccinated.

00:59:38.940 And I'm implementing a mandate for five year olds, five year olds and up.

00:59:42.260 Not great.

00:59:43.120 Not OK.

00:59:43.880 And one of the most extreme things we've seen any school district do after L.A., which

00:59:48.340 already did it.

00:59:49.940 And so people have tolerated it.

00:59:51.860 But one wonders, are we at the breaking point when you see more and more protests overseas,

00:59:57.420 but not as much here in America?

00:59:59.800 Is it coming here?

01:00:02.540 Yeah.

01:00:03.120 I mean, you see you see video of what's going on in places like Germany, although I think

01:00:08.560 that the laws there are probably more repressive than they are here yet.

01:00:14.500 But I think I think it's coming.

01:00:17.580 I think there's a backlash coming.

01:00:18.820 People are tired of it.

01:00:19.860 They're getting used to this emergency style of politics where, you know, even before the

01:00:27.420 pandemic arrived, ever since Trump came on the scene, it's been nonstop moral manias in

01:00:33.180 the media from the moment he was elected, whether it was about Russiagate or the caravan or Brett

01:00:40.480 Kavanaugh or Bounty Gate or whatever it is, we're constantly in some kind of panic.

01:00:47.500 And, you know, the the new thing now is this combination of both the pandemic and January

01:00:54.520 6th, where you have all these people who are who are trying to assert extraordinary authority

01:01:00.420 because they say that we're in this atmosphere of of remarkable, unique threats.

01:01:06.660 And when is that going to end?

01:01:08.360 I mean, is there a desire to go back to to to sort of normal life and freedoms?

01:01:14.020 I I don't see that instinct among among a lot of politicians, which is very troubling.

01:01:19.440 Mm hmm.

01:01:20.000 And and we've got to be getting to the breaking point.

01:01:22.020 Even, you know, my friends on the center left are sick of it.

01:01:25.940 I mean, they're sick of it.

01:01:26.860 It's not just like the right wing now, which won't get us very far.

01:01:30.100 And that's a promising sign.

01:01:31.320 I mean, I started the show right after the holiday break with it with a piece on that.

01:01:36.800 Let's talk about January 6th, because, of course, true to form, the reaction on the

01:01:42.380 day was totally over the top as it has been.

01:01:45.320 That was unbelievable.

01:01:46.380 Right.

01:01:47.060 I mean, you know, it was like this national commemoration and prayer vigil and everybody

01:01:50.300 and singing.

01:01:51.280 What was all with all the weird singing on Capitol Hill?

01:01:53.980 Right.

01:01:55.200 Yeah.

01:01:55.680 I'm at a loss for words for the Hamilton thing.

01:01:58.060 I I tried to construct what the logic must would have been there.

01:02:03.140 And I was not successful in doing that.

01:02:05.900 So I have no idea.

01:02:07.200 Manuel Miranda doing here.

01:02:09.140 Yeah.

01:02:09.580 That was so random that that I didn't I couldn't even laugh at it because it was it was so

01:02:16.840 illogical.

01:02:17.360 Um, no, it's crazy.

01:02:19.560 Uh, and the the absolute over the top, uh, you know, nature of the coverage, you knew

01:02:29.140 it was going to be like that.

01:02:30.240 But when people are saying things like, you know, the, the, the, uh, Huffington Post White

01:02:35.360 House correspondent said it was a thousand percent worse than 9-11.

01:02:38.800 And, um, yeah, I mean, he wasn't alone.

01:02:44.040 Like, where, where do you, what do you even start with people like that?

01:02:47.000 Like, even if you have extremely negative feelings about what happened on January 6th, and I do.

01:02:52.120 I mean, I, I, I, I think there were all sorts of things about that that were, uh, scary, irresponsible.

01:02:59.480 I think there should have been consequences, all that, but it wasn't a coup.

01:03:03.580 It wasn't Pearl Harbor.

01:03:04.800 It wasn't 9-11.

01:03:05.700 And I have serious questions about any journalist who would go to those places.

01:03:10.440 Um, because what are you trying to say?

01:03:13.140 Uh, if, if you're, if you're really trying to say that that's worse than Pearl Harbor or worse than 9-11,

01:03:18.800 and think about our responses to, to, to both of those, um, situations.

01:03:23.640 Are you saying that we should respond in that way?

01:03:25.700 Because there are people who think like that, and that's deeply concerning.

01:03:29.140 So, so, yes, it was funny in the moment to watch how crazy all the, the coverage was.

01:03:34.220 But there's a level to this that isn't, is very not funny at all, which is that, you know,

01:03:39.180 they want the public to believe this was so serious that we have to, you know, impose very,

01:03:44.040 very stringent measures in response.

01:03:46.080 And that's troubling.

01:03:47.780 Mm-hmm.

01:03:48.800 And the reason we tolerated those very, very stringent measures, which now with the benefit

01:03:53.520 of hindsight seem shocking after 9-11 is because we were genuinely, and for very good reason,

01:04:00.000 scared.

01:04:00.560 We didn't know when the next attack was coming.

01:04:02.660 We had an enemy that was absolutely determined to kill as many of us as possible.

01:04:07.360 And that's why Americans tolerated the erosion of their civil liberties on a dime. 0.88

01:04:11.380 And it lasted for a long time and looked the other way on things like torture, which we

01:04:15.120 normally wouldn't have.

01:04:16.200 It's insane to now try to say, we're there again.

01:04:20.180 We are there again.

01:04:20.980 And expect the American people to suck it up.

01:04:23.460 Granted, you know, eliminating the filibuster is not exactly the same as torturing people,

01:04:28.100 but it's extreme.

01:04:30.020 It's extreme.

01:04:30.880 It's, it's radical.

01:04:32.020 And it's not justified by anything we saw on January 6th.

01:04:34.940 No, and I, and I thought the symbolism, and I wrote about this, this, the symbolism of

01:04:40.940 Dick Cheney showing up for the moment of silence, you know, that the, he and his daughter

01:04:47.220 were the only Republicans present for the moment of silence commemorating the anniversary

01:04:51.400 of January 6th.

01:04:52.580 First of all, why are we commemorating it?

01:04:54.580 Anyway, irrespective of that, for him to show up and you think about it, this is, this person

01:05:00.860 was the architect of a whole sort of unaccountable bureaucracy within the federal bureaucracy.

01:05:08.560 I've covered so many stories about things ranging from drone assassination, to rendition, to

01:05:15.880 extro, to secret prisons, to national security letters, to mass surveillance, um, to the lack

01:05:25.540 of congressional oversight, to spot spying on Congress, uh, uh, you know, all these things

01:05:32.280 that, that, that are essentially creations of the security state, um, that were new, uh,

01:05:38.560 during, uh, in, in, in response to 9-11, and they were horrible and they were irrevocable

01:05:43.860 and were, and they're almost impossible to challenge because they were, they were built

01:05:47.440 in a way that there's essentially no oversight, uh, of them.

01:05:51.920 And we, in many cases, we didn't even know they existed until something like the Snowden

01:05:55.140 thing happened.

01:05:56.980 Um, and so him being there in response to one, to, to January 6th, in conjunction with things

01:06:04.800 like Merrick Garland last year saying that they want to, you know,

01:06:08.560 implement a new domestic terrorism program or a war on, war on terror at home, um, what

01:06:15.660 does that mean?

01:06:16.360 Are we going to expand the, the no-fly list, the watch lists, all these things that I think

01:06:22.020 a lot of Americans just do not understand the scope of how bad it was, um, and continues

01:06:26.740 to be.

01:06:27.740 And, uh, the idea of bringing that home on, on a mass scale should terrify everybody,

01:06:32.700 I think.

01:06:33.560 That's a really good point.

01:06:34.820 It's like, this isn't just about, and it is absolutely about changing a new cycle.

01:06:39.240 I mean, the media saw an opportunity to spike its ratings.

01:06:42.500 The Democrats saw an opportunity to change the narrative from inflation and crime and

01:06:46.220 supply chain and, you know, all of the bad news for Joe Biden and his polls.

01:06:50.000 Um, but they also are using it a hundred percent using it as an opportunity to seize more government

01:06:55.120 power.

01:06:55.480 Same as COVID.

01:06:56.720 Um, I can't move on without speaking of your recent piece, which you entitled a tale

01:07:01.560 of two authoritarians talking about Dick Cheney in the house.

01:07:04.280 And, and you write, no one from a country where these things actually happen could mistake

01:07:08.960 January 1st or 6th, sorry, one, six for a coup quote.

01:07:13.700 In the real version, the mob doesn't take selfies and blaze doobies after seizing the palace

01:07:19.740 and the would be dictator doesn't spend 187 minutes snacking and watching Fox before tweeting

01:07:25.900 go home.

01:07:26.840 Yeah, absolutely.

01:07:31.480 Uh, I mean, I, again, I lived in, I lived in Russia in the nineties.

01:07:36.200 So, um, I'm, you know, I went through a bunch of disruptions.

01:07:41.560 Obviously we had, there was a, the, the big one in 1991, um, where they, uh, sort of arrested

01:07:49.160 Gorbachev and, uh, tried to install a KGB regime.

01:07:53.480 Then there was the black October one in 1993.

01:07:57.020 And by a very random coincidence, I, I happen to know some of the key players involved in

01:08:02.180 one of those, uh, one of those coups.

01:08:04.580 And so, yeah, like a real coup is, is a serious thing where the, where the, where the leader

01:08:10.920 of the coup is on the phone all day long, trying to line up as much support as possible.

01:08:15.740 Like, you know, who's got the 110th airborne, who's got the police in the Capitol, who's got

01:08:21.120 the airports, who's got the telephone services.

01:08:23.480 Uh, it, the real coup is not somebody who goes home, goes back to the white house and

01:08:28.760 sits back and watches Fox all day long.

01:08:30.600 Like that's not what happens in a real coup and in a real coup, they don't just give up.

01:08:35.200 They're trying to take power.

01:08:36.720 Uh, what happened was disturbing, but you know, it was not a real attempt to seize the

01:08:43.820 reins of government.

01:08:44.640 Um, and I, and I think the fact that so many journalists have reflexively opted for that

01:08:51.340 word tells you that they're just not really worried about the accuracy of it.

01:08:56.820 I mean, you can feel negatively about it, but you don't have to go there, um, and make

01:09:00.900 the mistake.

01:09:02.180 I said the same thing when I, last, last week when, uh, we had, you know, the anniversary,

01:09:05.720 whatever we're calling it, there's no reason to overstate it.

01:09:08.060 Just state what actually happened and then deal with that.

01:09:10.420 I mean, how did, forget the people who were there just to support president Trump and

01:09:14.420 see a guy they loved and wave goodbye, right?

01:09:17.260 How did so many people actually stormed the Capitol thinking that they could make a difference

01:09:22.000 that day in terms of the voting, right?

01:09:24.040 Cause there, the vast majority had no idea there was even anything going on inside.

01:09:27.440 I talked about the daily doing a great interview of a guy.

01:09:29.660 It was a transcription, a live reenactment of his transcription of his interview with the

01:09:34.100 FBI.

01:09:34.760 This guy did was like, I didn't even know they were voting on anything.

01:09:36.880 I'm a lifelong Democrat.

01:09:37.780 I just kind of got sucked up and went in and next thing I knew I was part of it, but

01:09:41.700 some people really wanted to stop the certification of the vote and accounting of the vote.

01:09:46.140 Um, how did those people get to the point where they believed it could happen?

01:09:49.120 You know, we did a long interview with a woman who was there at the Capitol and she walked

01:09:54.260 us through how she fell into the, the disinformation cycle.

01:09:59.260 You know, she felt alienated from the mainstream news.

01:10:01.800 She felt loathed by people on CNN.

01:10:04.400 She wasn't, she was looking for a tribe.

01:10:06.940 Her business is closed.

01:10:08.300 She was a young mother.

01:10:09.760 She was pissed off about the COVID restrictions.

01:10:11.740 You can, you can make a good faith effort to understand how did people get to the point

01:10:16.180 of believing, right?

01:10:17.840 What wasn't true.

01:10:19.660 That is a useful exercise.

01:10:21.500 You can do that without using falsely inflammatory labels like insurrection and coup and all the 0.97

01:10:25.880 nonsense and worse than nine 11 bullshit. 0.97

01:10:28.260 And so the media continues. 1.00

01:10:29.720 It's disgusting disservice.

01:10:31.800 Are we shocked?

01:10:32.740 All right, wait, let me leave that question in the air.

01:10:34.760 I'll squeeze in a quick break and then we'll pick it up there because I do want to ask

01:10:38.560 you about AOC and Ted Cruz, who's come under fire for some troubling comments and behavior.

01:10:47.000 More with Matt Taibbi coming up right after this.

01:10:49.200 So Matt, Ted Cruz finds himself getting bashed by the left and the right last week because

01:11:01.460 at a hearing before January 6th, I think it was the day before, he referred to some of the

01:11:08.180 January 6th protesters as committing a violent terror attack.

01:11:12.680 So then Tucker ripped on him, uh, on his show that night saying no and wrong and bad messaging.

01:11:20.620 And basically you're falling right into a Democrat trap.

01:11:23.860 And then Ted Cruz went on Tucker to try to fix it.

01:11:28.540 Um, and this is how that went in part.

01:11:32.180 Watch. 1.00

01:11:33.400 There are a lot of dumb people in the Congress. 1.00

01:11:35.600 You're not one of them. 1.00

01:11:36.660 I think you're smarter than I am.

01:11:37.940 Uh, and you never use words carelessly.

01:11:42.120 Um, and yet you called this a terror attack when by no definition, was it a terror attack?

01:11:47.520 That's a lie.

01:11:48.580 You told that lie on purpose.

01:11:50.220 And I'm wondering why you did.

01:11:52.660 Well, Tucker, thank you for having me on when you aired your episode last night.

01:11:56.380 I sent you a text shortly thereafter and said, listen, I'd like to go on because 0.87

01:12:00.460 the way I phrased things yesterday, it was sloppy and it was frankly dumb.

01:12:05.580 And I don't buy that for, look, I've known you a long time since before you went to the 0.95

01:12:10.440 Senate, you were a Supreme court contender.

01:12:12.840 You take words as seriously as any man who's ever served in the Senate and every word you

01:12:17.320 repeated that phrase.

01:12:18.480 I do not believe that you use that accidentally.

01:12:21.160 I just don't.

01:12:22.200 So Tucker, as a result of my sloppy phrasing, it's caused a lot of people to misunderstand

01:12:26.900 what I meant.

01:12:27.740 And he went on to try to say that he always refers to anyone who attacks a cop as a terrorist,

01:12:35.340 as a violent terrorist.

01:12:36.700 And he was just being consistent with prior prior comments.

01:12:40.840 But he did.

01:12:41.460 I mean, Tucker got him right because he tries.

01:12:43.260 I was sloppy.

01:12:44.080 And the truth and Tucker said, I don't believe that because you choose words carefully.

01:12:47.040 And if Tucker only knew how right he was, apparently Ted Cruz has used that term violent

01:12:51.480 terrorist attack in referring to January 6th at least 17 times over the past year.

01:12:55.800 So it was deliberate.

01:12:57.260 Tucker's instincts were right.

01:12:58.840 And you tell me whether Ted Cruz handled that the way he ought to have.

01:13:03.600 I just struggle with the the political calculus there, because if he's going for mainstream

01:13:12.220 recognition by saying violent terrorist attack, then you probably want to stick with that.

01:13:18.940 But you're not fooling anybody by cowering and retracting before Tucker Carlson and saying,

01:13:26.920 oh, I didn't really mean it.

01:13:28.180 I was just being sloppy.

01:13:30.740 That's just not believable, as Carlson pointed out.

01:13:35.740 And actually, one of the first things that Tucker said is one of the first thoughts that

01:13:39.340 I have, because I've covered Ted Cruz on the campaign trail. 0.95

01:13:43.220 And among presidential candidates, I would say he's not one of the dumber ones. 0.57

01:13:49.660 Like, he actually is fairly sentient on the stump. 0.92

01:13:53.560 Like, I think there's actually something going on behind his eyes.

01:13:57.640 And so it's a bizarre thing for him to do.

01:14:01.200 Like, and what it speaks to, I think, is that he must have realized the the enormity of the

01:14:08.440 error politically, because I don't think that's a survivable thing to say if he's going to

01:14:13.820 try to run and win a Republican primary, if he's going to be opposed at a primary.

01:14:19.240 So I think that's why he did what he did.

01:14:22.920 I'll tell you what.

01:14:24.480 If I were Ted Cruz's press secretary, I would have said to him, do not go grovel.

01:14:30.260 That's not what a man does.

01:14:32.440 That's not that is not what America's want wants right now, especially women, especially 1.00

01:14:37.740 Republican women, is a strong man. 0.96

01:14:39.620 That's what's why a lot of women voted for Trump, even though they didn't like Trump. 1.00

01:14:43.560 And that's why a lot of Hispanics are voting for Trump.

01:14:45.760 They the polls reflect that they like his strength.

01:14:48.280 So do not be the weak man who, like, goes in and grovels in front of Tucker.

01:14:53.080 And Tucker was right.

01:14:54.200 I mean, what he said was what he called Cruz out on was exactly right.

01:14:57.080 What Cruz, in my view, needed to do was to go in there and say, I said it and I meant

01:15:01.660 it.

01:15:02.240 I was talking about the and then list the number 147 people who were who attacked cops

01:15:07.120 with fire extinguishers, who hurt them, who broke bones, broke spirits, who drove them

01:15:12.160 to the place where they were despondent the days after and some committed suicide.

01:15:15.560 I have absolutely no tolerance for them.

01:15:17.820 You know, the same way I have no tolerance for the people who killed David Dorn in the

01:15:21.420 Black Lives Matter riots and all the others, the 2000 cops who got hurt and so on. 0.98

01:15:25.000 It's disgusting. 0.94

01:15:26.160 And I think you should be his press secretary. 0.74

01:15:28.200 He should have called me.

01:15:29.400 You know, you don't give him you don't give one inch.

01:15:32.680 Be a man.

01:15:33.420 Be strong.

01:15:34.580 And by the way, women are strong, too. 1.00

01:15:36.740 And say, I stand by every goddamn word, every word. 1.00

01:15:41.660 It's disgusting. 0.99

01:15:42.480 But but, you know, my full remarks and I haven't looked at all of his remarks, either my full

01:15:49.980 remarks showed or I should have made that more clear that I do not think that applies

01:15:56.060 to the rest of the writers and what the Democrats are trying to do, taking the bad actions of

01:15:59.940 a few at one riot to try to paint the entire Republican Party writ large as a bunch of terrorists

01:16:05.040 is equally wrong. 0.99

01:16:06.840 It's disgusting.

01:16:07.740 It's wrong. 0.95

01:16:08.180 It's divisive.

01:16:08.820 It doesn't live up to Joe Biden's promises of unity.

01:16:11.520 And it's going to tear us apart at the fabric of this nation.

01:16:15.040 So I have no I will brook no, no.

01:16:18.640 No, I think Tucker would have jumped on, jumped on that, too.

01:16:21.840 But yeah, yeah.

01:16:23.000 Well, fine.

01:16:23.520 But you can have that debate like I this is what the Democrats are trying to do.

01:16:27.340 They're trying to use terms like terrorism and so on in order to justify these extraordinary

01:16:32.060 measures that they now want to push.

01:16:33.420 Get rid of the filibuster so we can federalize voting rights.

01:16:37.120 No.

01:16:37.880 Right.

01:16:38.160 That's no.

01:16:38.940 Right.

01:16:39.120 They're trying to misuse language.

01:16:41.840 And so I think Ted Cruz's opportunity was to say they don't get to co-op terms like that.

01:16:47.080 It is a terrorist thing.

01:16:48.180 You do put a cop through terror if you scare him within inches of his life or in some instances,

01:16:53.860 you know, into actually hurting them and so on.

01:16:55.760 And it applies to BLM.

01:16:57.120 And I want to hear them say it about BLM.

01:16:58.940 And it applies to the few who did it on Capitol Hill that day and so on.

01:17:01.840 Anyway, I think he missed an opportunity and I don't see Ted Cruz getting back the MAGA

01:17:06.060 base or even others who have seen him flip flop on things like this one too many times.

01:17:11.920 Just just to briefly comment on that, because I think you said something that's really interesting

01:17:15.640 about Trump.

01:17:18.920 And obviously, you know better than anybody, you know, what his formula is for success.

01:17:25.340 But there was a really amazing moment in, I think, the summer of 2015, right after he announced when he said

01:17:33.260 that thing about John McCain, you know, I like people who weren't captured.

01:17:37.060 And I remember being in the traveling press and all of us talking about how, oh, that's not a survivable comment.

01:17:43.940 Like he'll he's he's toast now.

01:17:46.180 Like you can't come back from that.

01:17:48.300 And what Trump did is exactly the opposite of of what politicians always do, which is the groveling, you know, sort of aid drafted apology.

01:17:58.900 Right.

01:17:59.420 Which is what we've come to expect from politicians.

01:18:01.600 He didn't do that.

01:18:02.280 He just he came out and just he a he denied he said it and then he said, basically, if I did say it, I was right.

01:18:09.520 And voters like that.

01:18:11.760 Yeah, they responded to that.

01:18:13.960 They responded to the idea that that this was a person for whatever reason.

01:18:18.620 He was standing up to the to the convention of groveling and apologizing to the news media.

01:18:24.920 And, you know, I think Ted Cruz, he was he was in that, you know, like that race. 0.99

01:18:31.780 I mean, he should he should have understood the dynamics of that better, I think.

01:18:37.640 Yeah.

01:18:38.060 Well, it was the Trump thing was so multilayered, you know, I mean, it happened.

01:18:42.040 Of course, he came after me and people thought, oh, he's going to get hurt because he came after a Fox News anchor.

01:18:46.740 And it was the opposite there, too.

01:18:48.460 And I think what he was showing people over and over was a yes.

01:18:51.440 No, I'm not going to be doing any groveling apologies.

01:18:53.220 But B, I'll I'll attack anybody. 0.99

01:18:56.460 You attack me, I attack you. 0.87

01:18:57.660 And there's nothing who nothing and no one who's inviolate to me, not the Republican establishment and John McCain, not the Fox News personalities, no one.

01:19:06.900 And he messaged very effectively.

01:19:08.280 Basically, I'm here for you, the people in Iowa who I want to give free helicopter rides to.

01:19:14.760 This is between you and me and none of these other establishment rich, blah, blah, blah.

01:19:20.920 You know, that was a great message.

01:19:22.980 Even I saw that, too.

01:19:24.540 I understood why it was working for him.

01:19:26.760 But he's also really effective at, you know, when he gets in trouble, changing the message with another equally controversial thing.

01:19:34.040 Right.

01:19:34.220 So it's like sometimes his controversy just became like a big bundle of where do they end?

01:19:38.920 They're still going on to this day.

01:19:40.900 No, I mean, look, I don't I don't credit him with actually thinking this through, but he is amazing at that.

01:19:47.300 But the flip side of this, I mean, I remember an example.

01:19:50.620 I covered Howard Dean when he first started traveling around the country and reporters hated Dean for whatever reason.

01:19:56.400 I can't remember what it was, but they would every day they would they would pester him and say, aren't you too much of a pacifist or aren't you too, too much of a leftist to be the president?

01:20:06.760 And whatever you think about that question, he got it like a thousand times a day.

01:20:11.940 And rather than just tell everyone to go screw and move on to another question, he tried every single day to answer the question.

01:20:20.900 Like he would he would sit down patiently and with with some reporter who was, you know, trying to nail him and and and basically beg for them not to not to say that he was just unqualified for office.

01:20:36.240 And that didn't work.

01:20:37.360 You know, they hated him even more than that.

01:20:39.900 Right.

01:20:40.200 You always have to be like, stop it.

01:20:42.000 Stop the nonsense.

01:20:42.800 Next.

01:20:43.480 Chris Christie had a good flavor of that.

01:20:45.360 But I mean, Chris Christie's he's not the answer on the on the GOP side either, because I think his book sold like 2000 copies.

01:20:51.740 That's not good.

01:20:52.540 You know, former governor, former presidential contender.

01:20:55.220 He does not have the support.

01:20:56.540 I my husband and I were having this discussion.

01:20:58.360 If it's not Trump on the GOP side next time around, and this is an eminently winnable race, eminently winnable race for the GOP next time around against Biden or whoever.

01:21:12.020 If it's not Trump, who can do it?

01:21:14.320 And my husband's position was it can't be anybody who was prominent during the Trump era like those are the Republicans who were in any way part of the Civil War back then within the GOP.

01:21:26.100 There's too much on the record.

01:21:28.680 You know, Ted Cruz.

01:21:29.760 Let me tell you what I really think about Donald Trump and then all a bunch of bad things about Donald Trump and the convention where he didn't really endorse Donald Trump.

01:21:36.300 And then and then he kind of like back Donald Trump's election claims.

01:21:40.040 But then he said stuff like, you know what I mean?

01:21:42.000 Like, no, there's too much history.

01:21:44.700 That's why he would think somebody like DeSantis would have a better shot whose record on that stuff, at least, is more clean.

01:21:52.540 Right.

01:21:53.020 What do you make of that?

01:21:54.800 Yeah, I think that's right.

01:21:55.860 Also, I mean, Christy is just embarrassing. 0.98

01:21:59.100 I'm sorry.

01:21:59.480 I'm one of the people who bought one of the 2000 people who bought his book to review it.

01:22:04.640 And it's just full of self-owns.

01:22:07.420 I mean, there's there's a whole passage about, you know, the whatever post he was expecting to get from Trump.

01:22:15.140 And it's clear from the text that they're leading him along like he's expecting to be not made ambassadors to some important country.

01:22:23.200 And they ask him if he's interested in, you know, they give him a selection of big countries.

01:22:30.080 And then they then they hang up.

01:22:31.740 Then they call back and they say, well, how about Vatican City?

01:22:34.000 Would you take that?

01:22:35.180 And he's like, yeah, I'd be interested in that.

01:22:36.820 Eventually, they give him nothing.

01:22:38.000 In other words, they were they were just, you know, stringing him along.

01:22:40.920 He doesn't realize that they're pranking him.

01:22:42.600 And he's writing all this down in the book.

01:22:44.480 I mean, it's just a joke.

01:22:46.140 It's funny to read anyway.

01:22:48.080 No, but I agree with you.

01:22:48.800 I think it has to be somebody who is not part of that period.

01:22:51.700 So and I just got covered, finished covering the Virginia race for governor.

01:22:57.760 I want to ask you about that.

01:22:58.400 And I think I think, you know, Youngkin is kind of maybe it's not him, but but somebody like him is kind of the formula for for what could succeed for Republicans.

01:23:09.020 Not that I'm necessarily rooting for the outcome, but but but I think I think that's I think you saw in that race.

01:23:18.280 OK, but I see I Youngkin.

01:23:20.020 Yes, I get what you're saying and I get the argument for him.

01:23:23.140 But nationwide, he's not going to work.

01:23:25.060 He's the sweater vest is not going to work nationwide like the same women who want to see the strong man. 1.00

01:23:31.280 You know, the women who come up to me and they're like, oh, what was it like interviewing Vladimir Putin?

01:23:34.780 I love him. Don't tell anyone.

01:23:36.340 Right. Like there are a lot of women like that. 1.00

01:23:38.160 Why? They like a strong man.

01:23:39.560 They don't really know what Vladimir Putin is doing necessarily or not doing.

01:23:43.060 They just like how strong he is. Right.

01:23:44.900 I think in today's day and age, especially like with toxic masculinity taking away, you know, a lot of things that we thought were attractive in men, the the Republican Party needs somebody who's got some sharp elbows and telegraphs as strong and quote a real man.

01:24:06.040 And by the way, Matt, this is bringing me to before we get to Youngkin and where the where the GOP goes.

01:24:10.980 And I want to talk about Virginia.

01:24:11.780 Did you see the thing that this week and I tweeted it out?

01:24:14.520 Did you see the guy?

01:24:15.500 It was some Canadian politician who tweeted out a picture of his wife who had just come home from a 12 hour overnight shift at the hospital, I guess.

01:24:24.840 And I've got to I will read to you what he tweeted because it's so amazing.

01:24:28.800 You guys can check out my Twitter if you want to see it for yourself, which you should, because you've got to see the responses.

01:24:33.360 He writes his name is John Reyes, J-O-N.

01:24:36.220 Even after a 12 hour night shift at the hospital last night, my wife still has the energy to shovel the driveway. 1.00

01:24:46.120 God bless her and all our front liners. 1.00

01:24:49.160 Time to make her some breakfast. 0.51

01:24:50.900 And he tweets a picture of his wife, totally bundled like a Canadian, shoveling tons of snow.

01:24:59.220 He's inside.

01:25:02.900 It's the great thing.

01:25:04.940 She picked the winner, clearly.

01:25:09.040 Jeez, that is embarrassing.

01:25:11.360 By the way, 100 percent she made the breakfast. 0.86

01:25:13.240 So this guy gets so dragged on Twitter.

01:25:18.020 Everyone's like, get the hell out there.

01:25:20.060 What are you doing?

01:25:20.600 But how could you not know what the reaction is going to be to that tweet?

01:25:26.300 Yes.

01:25:27.160 Exactly.

01:25:27.660 How did he not see it coming?

01:25:29.060 But one one person was it?

01:25:31.460 It's Christian Walker, I think.

01:25:33.480 Conservative, black, gay and son of Herschel Walker, if I'm not mistaken.

01:25:39.280 He's very successful on YouTube and so on.

01:25:42.460 Anyway, he tweets out, bring back our real men.

01:25:45.640 Where are our men?

01:25:46.820 We need our men back.

01:25:50.320 And the whole thing is not a bad summation of what I think will win on the Republican side and perhaps nationwide next time around.

01:25:59.560 Well, I mean, again, going back to Trump, remember the moment when Jeb Bush was going on and on about how strong his mother was?

01:26:07.880 And Trump said she should be running in the debate.

01:26:12.780 And I think I think Jeb Bush's campaign ended in that moment.

01:26:16.520 I mean, I think you're you're really on to something.

01:26:20.120 Youngkin also, in addition to being a sweater vest guy and not having a ton of presence, he's also a private equity type and is going to be, you know, lugging around a lot of baggage on that front as well.

01:26:34.720 So that's that's why I'm sort of saying it's not necessarily going to be him.

01:26:39.580 But but yeah, I think I think you're right.

01:26:41.500 I think I think, you know, somebody who's a fresh face, you know, and and is not going to bend to the will of the media, especially.

01:26:51.940 I think that's that's the most important quality to have, maybe slightly irascible, slightly a little bit, a little a little edgy.

01:26:59.280 Yeah, a little edgy. OK, so can we talk for a minute about the series that you did covering Virginia and the parents and what mattered in Loudoun County, which is a liberal place?

01:27:09.180 It's unlike a lot of places in Virginia. It's not some, you know, deep red place where, as we know, Virginia is more purple blue now.

01:27:15.860 But you took a hard look at what at what's going on there, what went on there.

01:27:20.720 And you said the Democrats education lunacies will bring back Trump.

01:27:26.880 You talked about Nicole Hannah-Jones in the piece, but but you also had just taken a hard look at Loudoun County in Virginia.

01:27:31.640 And so what what are your conclusions about where the Dems went wrong and whether they've figured it out post Virginia?

01:27:40.600 Well, first of all, that that whole story was was so badly miscovered by the traditional media.

01:27:47.880 They you know, the conventional explanation for what happened in Loudoun County was that this was a dog whistle Republican race baiting campaign using critical race theory as a rallying cry.

01:28:06.720 And actually, it took me about, you know, maybe a half an hour worth of phone calls or maybe maybe a couple hours to find out that this thing actually started with something that had absolutely nothing to do with critical race theory.

01:28:22.520 This this this was a controversy that started by you could probably go back to 2018.

01:28:28.100 It had to do with gifted admissions, which is a big deal.

01:28:32.340 And this this place, this is the wealthiest county in America.

01:28:36.120 The these are places where the parents expect to get their kids into Harvard and Princeton and Yale and places like that.

01:28:42.900 And so getting into an advanced program like Thomas Jefferson High, which is actually in Fairfax County, but they have a program to bus kids there.

01:28:51.140 It's very, very important. And so there was a there there was a dispute there basically about how are we going to weigh the admissions to get into these gifted programs?

01:29:05.020 And the problem was that the Asian kids were killing everybody in these admissions. 1.00

01:29:09.820 There were there were there were 70 percent of the of the admittance and there were only 20 percent of the population.

01:29:15.980 All the other demographics were unhappy about that.

01:29:18.260 And so they there was a move to change the rules.

01:29:20.580 The NBA and the LACP filed a complaint.

01:29:24.480 And that led to a series of incidents that ended up getting into the news.

01:29:31.860 But the root of this had nothing to do with with critical race theory.

01:29:35.020 This was about whether or not we're going to use standardized tests and grades to decide who gets into gifted programs.

01:29:42.180 And, you know, it's it's it's a it's pretty weighty stuff.

01:29:45.780 There was that. And then there was the school closures thing.

01:29:48.480 That was a much bigger deal in Loudoun County than the curriculum.

01:29:53.860 So that was that was an important thing.

01:29:55.740 And then when you finally got to what they were what they were recommending that the schools do,

01:30:01.200 you know, because they had hired these outside equity consultants to do a review.

01:30:06.740 And of course, they found systemic racism everywhere.

01:30:09.140 But the the one of the recommendations, just to give an example, was they wanted to create what they call an equity ambassador program,

01:30:16.480 which would have been an anonymous group of non-white only students who would have regularly informed on the rest of the student body to the school.

01:30:25.020 Oh, boy. What did go wrong?

01:30:26.280 Yeah. I mean, that's crazy. It's absolutely it's absolute insanity.

01:30:31.180 And but that that emerged in the news as people were upset about being taught about slavery.

01:30:38.160 And you can imagine how that went over with the population there and how it went over with the mainly Asian and Indian immigrants

01:30:49.220 who got disenfranchised when they changed the rules because they were being called white supremacists for opposing these changes.

01:30:57.720 It was total, total madness.

01:31:00.680 So what do you think the lessons are for other?

01:31:03.900 Well, for really for Democrats, right, coming out of that, it's like I it got expanded to cover everything.

01:31:11.120 Right. What I notice is in the wake of the Virginia loss by the Dems, whatever your agenda was, you said that's what Virginia was about.

01:31:18.420 Right. Like that's my thing. That's what my thing was.

01:31:22.000 But I do think it was absolutely about parental rights, for sure.

01:31:25.240 And being able to like weigh in and that devastating soundbite by McAuliffe saying parents don't have the right to dictate what their what their children are taught.

01:31:34.940 But was it what was it was it about more than that?

01:31:37.440 Or like what's what's your point in terms of what the Democrats need to learn?

01:31:40.540 Well, first of all, I think what he was saying, which is really it's interesting because it reflects a point of view that people have.

01:31:50.100 And Nicole Hannah-Jones and I actually had a little bit of a sparring session about this online.

01:31:55.760 You know, her point of view is that education is a is a public good.

01:32:01.120 And so it's more important that school is more about attaining a collective public good than it is about personal development.

01:32:12.320 And there's a major philosophical dispute.

01:32:15.940 And I think there are arguments on both sides for this.

01:32:20.840 But, you know, when you when you have all these parents in Loudoun County and what they're thinking about is, well, I have to get my my son or daughter into a really good school.

01:32:32.060 And they've done a lot of work and they get great test scores and they get perfect grades and that's not going to be the criteria for getting into a gifted program.

01:32:42.960 They're going to be angry about that.

01:32:44.700 And I think I think what what the Democrats are are deluded about is that a lot of the salute and it's not just in Loudoun County.

01:32:56.500 They're doing this all all over the country that, you know, whether it's the University of California system that's eliminating standardized tests.

01:33:03.120 Same thing in New York City, where they're they're changing the rules for the gifted and talented programs.

01:33:08.840 They're doing it in colleges all over the country.

01:33:11.000 It's this whole idea that there's something amiss with sort of merit based admissions and that we have to go for this equity route, which is, you know, there's an argument for it.

01:33:22.760 But I think I think they think it's more politically tenable than it is.

01:33:27.260 I think most the larger portion of Americans think that parents should have a say in in these matters and and that, you know, there's we should teach our kids that they should.

01:33:41.000 The that the student who gets the best scores and works the hardest and gets the best grades.

01:33:46.280 I think there's we should be cheering for that student, especially if they're immigrants, which a lot of the students in Loudoun County were.

01:33:54.540 So I think they've got this issue wrong.

01:33:58.740 I think they think that that, you know, they can sell this as as being, you know, sort of racial justice.

01:34:06.540 But that's not really what this is.

01:34:08.600 It's it's it's it's about changing standards.

01:34:11.520 It's really crazy when you see kids work night and day.

01:34:14.780 You know, a lot of these Asian kids who have filed lawsuits night and day sacrifice everything.

01:34:20.240 You know, they made choices that people like me when I went through high school didn't make.

01:34:24.060 Right.

01:34:24.280 Like they have social time.

01:34:26.160 Yeah, exactly.

01:34:26.720 And so and got better grades.

01:34:29.380 And and now they're being told more and more by colleges and even at the high school level.

01:34:35.420 Oh, it doesn't count because of your race, because because you're Asian. 1.00

01:34:39.820 We choose not to count you because, you know, that's just no.

01:34:44.500 Right.

01:34:44.720 Because you're taking the spot of somebody who's a different race who may not have worked

01:34:49.720 harder or, you know, tried as hard because of history.

01:34:54.820 And so they have filed lawsuits to see whether the law would support that kind of racism.

01:35:00.100 And so far, well, we'll see.

01:35:02.720 I mean, there's a couple of big cases still out there, but it's not going it's not going

01:35:05.140 the way that the racial equity people want.

01:35:07.800 Matt, I got to go.

01:35:08.680 It's great talking to you.

01:35:10.440 No, thanks so much, Megan.

01:35:11.460 And thanks.

01:35:11.920 It's been a great time coming on your show.

01:35:14.060 All right.

01:35:14.400 To be continued.

01:35:15.220 So thank you all so much for joining us today.

01:35:16.960 I want to tell you that tomorrow we've got the pod father.

01:35:20.280 That's what they call him.

01:35:21.880 Former MTV VJ Adam Curry is here.

01:35:24.460 He came on and we only had like two segments with him.

01:35:28.560 And I was like, it was not enough.

01:35:30.140 We needed to have a full show with him.

01:35:31.680 You're going to love him.

01:35:32.440 He's a great talker, very insightful.

01:35:34.320 And in the meantime, if you are enjoying the Megyn Kelly show, it would be wonderful if

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The Megyn Kelly Show - January 10, 2022

CDC Damage Control and Teachers Refusing to Teach, with Matt Taibbi, Phil Kerpen and Corey DeAngelis ｜ Ep. 237

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