The Megyn Kelly Show - Censorship as Virtue Signaling, and False Meghan and Harry Claims, with the Fifth Column Hosts ｜ Ep. 448

00:00:00.540 Welcome to The Megyn Kelly Show, your home for open, honest, and provocative conversations.

00:00:11.860 Hey everyone, I'm Megyn Kelly. Welcome to The Megyn Kelly Show. Oh my gosh, there's so much

00:00:15.880 goodness to get to today and we have the perfect guests for it all. Joining me now are friends

00:00:20.160 from The Fifth Column podcast, Michael Moynihan, a correspondent for Vice News Tonight, Matt Welsh,

00:00:26.160 editor-at-large for Reason Magazine, and Camille Foster of Freethink Media. Guys, welcome back to

00:00:33.200 the show. Great to have you. Thank you for having us. All right, so I want to begin with the big news.

00:00:39.340 You may have missed it. If you blinked, you may have missed it, but apparently our president,

00:00:43.760 unbeknownst to any of us, actually has gone to the southern border. Yes, indeed, he's gone there,

00:00:49.640 and the reason we know that is because Corrine Jean-Pierre tells us it is so.

00:00:55.360 Kevin McCarthy says that he invited President Biden down to the border. How does the president

00:01:00.160 RSVP? We know the president's never been down to the border. The possible next speaker says that

00:01:10.720 he wants him to go with him, so is he going to? So look, he's been there. He's been to the border,

00:01:16.880 and since he took office. When did he go to the border?

00:01:20.800 Since he took office, the president Biden has been taking action to fix our immigration system

00:01:25.680 and secure our border. He's never been to the border. She lied. It was an out and out lie. He

00:01:32.580 hasn't been to the border. Back when he was running for vice president in 2008, he literally did a drive

00:01:37.680 by. I mean, that's like when you say you've been to France, even though you just passed through a

00:01:44.480 Charles de Gaulle airport en route to someplace else. That's not a visit to the border. He won't

00:01:50.000 go. We have record immigration numbers now at the southern border, which the media has been sweeping

00:01:55.920 under the rug. And and when confronted directly on why he won't go, she lied and said he's been there.

00:02:01.760 I wish there was some kind of penalty in American politics for lying. It just doesn't really appear

00:02:07.440 to be now. We've just gotten it. We've gotten it. No, seriously. Like, this isn't the first time

00:02:12.240 Biden is Biden. Like he has said in multiple speeches, apropos of nothing, that the economy

00:02:17.920 was on the verge of collapse when I took over. Right. This is a random thing. It doesn't really

00:02:22.340 matter that much. And it's just not true. It had grown like by leaps and bounds the previous two

00:02:27.100 quarters before he assumed office. But he could just say that because there's a feeling

00:02:31.640 that of impunity and it's kind of under understandable. It's just rotten that there's

00:02:37.820 a feeling like, oh, we could just sort of say that he's been down to the border. I mean, let's be

00:02:42.880 honest. Kamala Harris already solved the problem last time I checked. So I don't really know why he

00:02:47.100 needs to go down to the border. It's the idea that it's only congressional Republicans. It's true that

00:02:53.380 they and congressional Democrats haven't done squat about immigration for two decades. And that's a

00:02:59.100 a damn crying shame. But the president has a lot of latitude. In fact, he's been exercising a lot 0.96

00:03:03.440 of latitude about his authority involving immigration. The story does not end with Congress.

00:03:10.160 It does not end with the president. And it certainly does not end or begin with lying about

00:03:15.560 his whereabouts. It's just so irritating. They know they can get away with it because nobody in the press

00:03:19.200 is going to fact check them. She can get away with yet more lies about important matters from the 0.93

00:03:23.840 White House lectern. It drives me insane. All right, let's go from the southern border to just

00:03:28.640 like a tiny bit north. I mean, it's along the southern border, but it doesn't actually

00:03:31.960 but Mexico. And that is the state of Georgia, where big things are happening today. This is it.

00:03:36.640 This is the runoff, guys. Does it feel like a letdown? I just feel like I don't know. I thought

00:03:41.800 it was going to be more exciting than it is. The Democrats already control Senate. And I know it matters

00:03:46.860 because like who controls the committees. I mean, it matters. It does. But like it just sort of feels

00:03:53.420 maybe I'm crazy. Like the wind went out of the Herschel Walker sales and like Warnock is probably

00:03:59.840 going to win. The polls are overwhelmingly with him. And I'm having difficulty getting really sort

00:04:05.380 of excited about today's results. Am I alone? You're not inspired by the candidacy of Herschel

00:04:11.620 Walker, Megan? I mean, I don't know. Neither of those guys inspires me. Well, yeah, I mean,

00:04:16.840 the Raphael Warnock one, but it but he's going to win so that, you know, it's not as much of an

00:04:21.180 own goal as what the GOP has been doing since the midterms. No, I mean, the wind came out of the

00:04:27.760 sales of it. If look, it's a very, very simple calculation. If it was a close match, you know,

00:04:33.580 if this was not, you know, South Korea versus Brazil, you would actually be paying attention to it.

00:04:38.860 But the as you mentioned, those those are very widening poll numbers in this runoff.

00:04:45.340 And, you know, Herschel Walker doesn't look like he's going to win. And every time I turn the TV

00:04:49.460 on, and you can say that it's the bias of the press. But don't put up a candidate who can, you

00:04:56.240 know, produce stories like this. But every time I turn the television on, there is a new woman on TV 0.99

00:05:01.460 talking about how he abused her. This is not the kind of person that you want to put up in, you know,

00:05:07.300 and again, it's Georgia that's that's tripping up Republicans.

00:05:10.620 Didn't I say that they were going to have a line as long as the Rockettes of women 1.00

00:05:13.820 who would come forward and accuse Herschel Walker if he made it if they had a runoff? And indeed,

00:05:18.220 it's happened. You know, he says he's a changed man. Raphael Warnock. Meanwhile, you know,

00:05:23.880 there's tape out there of him praising Louis Farrakhan and Nation of Islam. Speaking of anti-Semites 0.69

00:05:28.960 in the news. Right. It's like, why can't we get better choices? Why? I mean, I don't know.

00:05:33.720 I Raphael Warnock allegedly ran over his wife's foot with his car. Herschel Walker has the

00:05:39.080 Rockette line of women accusing him of bad behavior and hurting them and threatening them. 1.00

00:05:43.420 It's like, yeah, maybe this is part of the reason why I can't get excited. There's no

00:05:48.400 one left to root for. Why don't one of you guys run? The hand to your temple. Yeah. Camille, run. 0.93

00:05:55.780 There must be some reason why good and honorable people who have other things to do that are just

00:06:00.740 better and more respectable than politics. Refuse to run for office. I don't know.

00:06:06.060 It really is should be very clear to anyone who's paying attention at this point that politics is

00:06:12.120 not about the best of us. The best of us have not for a while now been the sort of people who end up

00:06:17.800 occupying the White House or necessarily occupying the seats of Congress. Fortunately, there is much

00:06:23.480 ruin in the nation. And most of the things that make America remarkable have nothing to do with who

00:06:29.540 gets elected to office. So I don't know if that makes you feel better or worse, but it always makes

00:06:34.980 me feel a little bit better when I when I have to sit through an election day like this.

00:06:39.560 I just feel like we're functioning despite these people, not because of them, the ones that we're

00:06:44.960 putting in office. You know, there's like there's craziness coming out. We've got a White House's

00:06:48.700 lies to us regularly. Just this whole dust up over the past 48 hours of Donald Trump and his tweet

00:06:53.980 about how we need to terminate the Constitution. And then even all these Republicans are like,

00:06:58.680 that's bullshit. We're not what he what? No. And then he's like, fake news. I never said it. 1.00

00:07:03.900 It's like, OK, it's literally in writing. You did say it. You wrote it. And now. And by the way,

00:07:10.260 it's not the first time you've written that you've written things just like that in the past

00:07:14.220 on your true social. I know you're mad. I get why you're mad about the Twitter files and what

00:07:20.300 Twitter did to the New York Post reporting on Hunter. I get it. But he always goes too far.

00:07:24.440 I don't know if it's because he needs attention or just because he's a big fan of the rhetorical

00:07:28.940 flourish or because he really wants to suspend the Constitution. I mean, part of it, Megan,

00:07:33.440 is just that is that he has never accepted the results of the 2016 election. We forget that now

00:07:41.560 because it seems so bizarre that the guy who won would insist over and over again that there was

00:07:46.260 massive election fraud in 2016. But he did because he lost the popular vote. He's mad about it.

00:07:51.720 And it's not just that he complained about that. There was three to five million

00:07:56.180 illegal votes in that election. He started a whole commission about it and appointed Chris

00:08:01.100 Kobach, who's an absolute clown to head it up. And this led to all kinds of stuff, changing the

00:08:06.240 rules in the census. It was insane. He can't stand the idea that the public doesn't love him.

00:08:12.020 And he says crazy stuff. Our friend Charlie Cook over at National Review has a great piece today

00:08:16.480 that just is a couple of paragraphs and just says, aren't you tired of this?

00:08:20.200 This little cycle, the one that exactly as you laid it out, Megan, aren't you tired of it?

00:08:24.280 Yeah, we're tired of it. And also, it's not popular. It's he can't win majority elections.

00:08:29.280 And people who talk like that can't win majority elections. And that's the only reason why Georgia

00:08:33.160 is close, by the way. It shouldn't be. Brian Kemp won easily over Stacey Abrams.

00:08:38.360 Republican beat the Democrat. It shouldn't be close in Georgia. But if you're going to have

00:08:42.500 Trump like candidates for office, you're going to lose.

00:08:45.800 Hmm. So this is what's happening in Georgia today. They're they're actually running drones

00:08:52.260 over the state of Georgia right now on behalf of Raphael Warnock, trying to get people out

00:08:57.400 their drones with like Raphael Warnock's image and other like I've never seen that before

00:09:01.600 in politics. And here's what happened. Apparently, the state Republicans in Georgia begged Trump

00:09:08.160 not to come to Georgia to hold an in-person rally. And according to reports, though, who knows?

00:09:13.340 Trump was mad. Like, what do you mean? Why don't you want me in Georgia? I'm the key to his success.

00:09:18.020 Like if you if I go to Georgia, he'll win. But they were like, please don't do us any favors.

00:09:21.420 Stay where you are. Stay in stay in Mar-a-Lago. And now and by the way, reportedly, there's a

00:09:27.180 bunch of polling data showing that he would do more harm than good if he went to Georgia to help

00:09:31.420 to try to help Walker. But now Walker's poll numbers are so low, apparently, that his campaign

00:09:36.920 was begging Trump to at least hold a virtual rally because the Democrats early voting lead

00:09:42.820 was so big. You know, that that's that's how they are winning in in Georgia now, the Dems with his

00:09:48.320 early voting edge. And so Trump did some virtual rally ultimately, which is I don't even know what

00:09:54.480 that is. Like, did he call people on the phone and say, vote for what is it? Didn't it's too late.

00:09:59.080 It's like, I don't know. I just don't think it's going to happen. Maybe I'll be proven wrong. But

00:10:03.340 the latest, what is it? Is it the bets? But the Democrats chances of winning the runoff

00:10:08.440 were eighty nine point five percent to Walker's ten point five percent, according to the tracker

00:10:13.260 election betting odds, which could be wrong, but probably won't be.

00:10:19.080 Yeah, there had to be some some total fiasco with respect to turnout for the Democrats in order for him

00:10:23.860 to win. I just can't see it. And there just does not seem to be a great deal of energy. I think the

00:10:28.120 fact that that Kemp so outperformed him in the in the last race says a great deal about his

00:10:34.600 prospects. All right. So the one piece of good news for the Republicans as a result of this election

00:10:40.200 is still that they did technically win the House. Right. They eked out a victory in the House and

00:10:46.500 soon to be. Well, speaker, we think Kevin McCarthy goes on with Maria Bartiromo and says,

00:10:53.320 I got a lot planned. I got a lot up my sleeve. I'm and here's the first thing. I've got a piece

00:10:58.960 of good news and it actually is a good a piece of good news. He says he's convinced President Biden

00:11:04.520 to throw away the mandate that active duty servicemen be and women be vaccinated. So that's

00:11:13.600 great. Like that's actually amazing if he in fact did that. And so we're very excited and we're

00:11:19.760 celebrating it. And then back to Corrine Jean-Pierre, she comes out and she's like,

00:11:25.540 wah, wah, that was before he spoke to the Pentagon and we really need to keep people safe

00:11:32.900 and pulled the rug out from under Leader McCarthy's first big victory and basically said, I couldn't

00:11:39.940 really tell if it was a hard no or if it was just a probably not. But the first big, big

00:11:46.760 victory of the McCarthy era seems not to exist. So what should they do? Because that actually would 0.69

00:11:52.480 be a very popular thing for the president to do. And his poll numbers are not very good.

00:11:57.660 Jeez, I mean, what do you do? I mean, first, very briefly on Georgia, I just want to say that

00:12:03.000 it does prove once again that the filthy politics of it all, when Joe Biden said that the Georgia

00:12:11.720 voting laws were creating Jim Eagle, which was Jim Crow times two, it was Jim Condor or something.

00:12:18.320 It was some large bird preceded by Jim. That turns out not to have been true. And the thing with

00:12:25.220 Corrine Jean-Pierre, I have no idea what to believe in that when it comes to the back stuff. Because as

00:12:30.020 you hear in the clips that you showed previously, this is a person who's supposed to be enlightening

00:12:34.620 the public, not doing battle with the press. Her job is to enlighten the public and be that kind of

00:12:40.380 sort of transportation of Joe Biden's confused ideas to the American people. And she refuses to

00:12:47.360 answer questions squarely. I mean, the border thing, she's answering five different questions

00:12:52.000 and saying, well, it's kind of none of your business. And so when you establish this for so

00:12:56.680 long, every time I watch this woman's press conferences, I start banging my head on the table 1.00

00:13:01.540 to I have no sense of what is actually happening when I listen to her speak and her recapitulation

00:13:08.680 of what the White House's ideas are. So I don't even know if that's true. I mean, the vaccination

00:13:13.920 thing is lunacy. It's an easy victory for Republicans because there is no science at this point. I mean,

00:13:20.300 keep in mind, I walked by a bar this morning. Shocker. I wasn't drinking this morning. I walked by the

00:13:26.320 bar, Matt. I tried to go in, but they were closed. And it said, you have to be vaccinated to

00:13:31.400 come into this horrible, dingy bar. And it's just still up on the wall. And I was like, do they

00:13:36.100 realize that we had this when we thought the vaccine was preventing transmission? We haven't,

00:13:41.320 we've known that that's not true for well over a year now. And where are we? We're still fighting

00:13:46.380 these. These are the people that believe the science, right? We're always talking about believing

00:13:49.300 the science. These are just now boring political battles that you could grant not even just McCarthy

00:13:55.360 of victory here. It's just, you know, the ease of, you know, running a military of having to have

00:14:00.720 everybody vaccinated when that really doesn't matter anymore. It seems like an easy victory,

00:14:04.620 but I mean, they're going to make a political battle out of absolutely everything.

00:14:08.840 But this is like such a no brainer. I mean, it's so stupid. And by the way, we will 100% catch way 1.00

00:14:13.440 more diseases from the disgusting faucets on the sinks in such places than we will from anybody

00:14:17.780 breathing their COVID breath on us. You know, honestly, it's like, it's such a quandary what to do.

00:14:21.960 I now have my hand sanitizer and I'm not, not a big hand sanitizer person. I have not one of those

00:14:26.340 people's like spraying myself with it every place, but the public restrooms, this is the place where 0.98

00:14:31.260 we need the hand sanitizer because touching the toilet, flusher, touching the sink faucets, you

00:14:37.020 know, the issue for Megan. Yes, I it's, I'm really, and like, then I want to use my foot to flush the

00:14:44.040 flusher. I don't want to touch the flusher, but then I, I'm like, what am I doing for my fellow humans?

00:14:48.380 I don't want to touch my foot to the flusher. What if the next gal comes in and she 1.00

00:14:51.880 uses your actual hand? So you've got to have the hand sanitizer. What they need is the automatic

00:14:56.500 door. What they need to like hit it with your elbow. So the door opens and closes without hand

00:15:00.720 to hand. Where are you hanging out? These are the places that I hang out where you leave with

00:15:05.220 diseases. You have money. What are you doing? I need new friends. The hand sanitizer right in and

00:15:13.400 outside of the door. The automatic kind where you put your hand under and you just do this and you

00:15:17.280 never have to touch anything. You don't have to touch the faucets. It's disgusting. And I'm thinking

00:15:21.560 about it, frankly, because of the airplanes, the airplanes are at, those are the worst. I don't

00:15:26.380 even know what that water is that comes out of there. Right? Like they give you the little,

00:15:29.580 the toothbrush sometimes like an overnight flight. Do not put your toothbrush under that water for the

00:15:34.660 love of God. I'm going through this with my kids. I'm like, no, no, take your bottle of water in there.

00:15:39.760 Anyway, sorry. I digress. Here's the actual quote, or here's what, here's what, and that's not a quote,

00:15:44.480 but here's what KJP said on the vaccine mandate for the active duty guys. She says, well, McCarthy

00:15:50.880 raised it. He raised it with President Biden. So clearly they had a conversation, but the president

00:15:57.800 told him he would consider it, but also made clear that he wanted to consult with the Pentagon. And

00:16:02.780 since then, as we've all heard, the secretary of defense has recommended retaining the mandate.

00:16:09.200 And that's because the COVID vaccination requirement was put in place to keep our service members safe

00:16:14.020 and healthy and prepared for service. She does not explain how this vaccine does any of that to the

00:16:20.820 point that you guys were just raising. Okay. So that's that. Meanwhile, over in LA. I don't have

00:16:24.520 any doubt that she, that Biden actually made that promise. No doubt whatsoever. How many times have

00:16:28.580 they had to walk back the things that Biden says in public? Of course we're going to assassinate

00:16:32.680 Vladimir Putin. We have to remove him from office. Well, remember he even said on 60 Minutes, 0.99

00:16:38.060 the pandemic was over, you know, Biden, I think, where we really are on this pandemic. It's his

00:16:43.020 crazy cabal around him of woke leftists who won't let go of any of this stuff. And some of them live

00:16:49.120 not just in D.C., but out in L.A., where they may soon reimpose the indoor mask mandate. Can you

00:16:56.220 believe? Can you believe this? Who would live there with these lunatics running the city? They say

00:17:04.720 they're at medium in terms of the, you know, the spread right now. And that means they're at 185.

00:17:12.400 The weekly rate is 185 per 100,000 residents. And if it goes up to just 200 cases per 100,000 residents,

00:17:20.560 that's high. And they will reimpose the mask mandate and people will follow it. They will put

00:17:26.240 the damn masks on and they will mask up their kids and they will comply because they're good little 1.00

00:17:31.880 citizens, good little boys and girls that do what the governor, the whatever mayor tells them to do. 1.00

00:17:38.060 It's stomach turning. Like, can you imagine putting a mask back on pursuant to a city mandate?

00:17:43.540 No, it's already happening, by the way, in New York City, in L.A. If you go to, you know,

00:17:49.520 where I am right now and go to the Whole Foods, about 50 percent masked. It's just it's the virtue

00:17:54.920 signal of people who live in these neighborhoods. I mean, they don't need not a mandate,

00:17:58.280 not a mandate, but they don't need to be told. And they would they would happily

00:18:01.540 accept that mandate, I think, if it happened to California. I mean, California, you have bigger

00:18:06.880 problems than the spread of something that is seasonal and is going to tick up around these

00:18:11.500 times every year. I had it about a month ago. You know, in California, you're more likely to be

00:18:17.180 stabbed by a deranged hobo when you're walking down in Venice Beach than you are getting, you know, 0.98

00:18:22.400 something that, you know, everyone survives, provided you're not grossly overweight or, you know,

00:18:27.520 elderly. So, you know, this has nothing to do with science. It has everything to do with politics.

00:18:32.660 It has everything everything to do with sort of fan service for the people who, you know, vote for

00:18:38.360 very progressive politicians. Let's just say who they are in places like New York City and L.A.

00:18:44.500 It's I mean, there's no secret or mystery to it. It should be noted that Los Angeles led the country

00:18:50.780 as far as I saw recently in population loss over the past year. A lot of different factors that go

00:18:57.080 into that. But I'm sure if there are people who don't like to live that way, don't like to follow

00:19:01.420 those kind of diktats, then they skedaddle, which they have done from New York City as well.

00:19:07.160 There's no reason for this. And they've done this a couple of times already in both Los Angeles and

00:19:11.920 the state of California. They've gone up, they've threatened, but they've said it's going to happen.

00:19:15.840 We're going to reimpose mandates. And then at the last minute, they kind of blink. It's almost as if

00:19:20.260 they want to let you know that they still could. They still want to just get yourself ready for

00:19:26.060 that at some point. It's astonishing. We had a mask mandate on toddlers here in New York until May

00:19:32.520 2022. I still can't get over it. California, they put yellow tape on playgrounds. They put sand

00:19:38.180 on skate parks. They pulled people out of the ocean. Yeah. The beach science, the vector of transmission,

00:19:45.620 the beach in California. We can't let this go. The same people did this stuff and are still

00:19:51.400 pushing these policies. And the vaccinated on the military, who do you want? Who do you think 0.73

00:19:55.280 fights the wars? Are they the people who follow the order in my neighborhood in Brooklyn that you

00:20:01.000 only find in bookstores? That's the only mask requirement that people still take seriously in

00:20:05.720 bookstore. That's weird. In Brooklyn. No, it's the type of people who don't follow mandates are the

00:20:11.120 ones who are probably going to pick up a gun and maybe defend the country. It's ridiculous. 0.99

00:20:15.600 There's no science behind it. New York state threw this out in court. The vax mandate on state 0.97

00:20:22.780 employees and government employees. We should do that for our military, considering that we have

00:20:27.320 a manpower shortage in this country, labor shortage across all sectors, but particularly ones involving

00:20:33.120 muscles. Yeah. And also because we're fighting a proxy war with Russia right now and we got a

00:20:37.680 president who continues to say provocative things about Taiwan like it. Now's the time we want a strong, 0.51

00:20:42.760 robust military that's ready to go, not sitting on the couch at home, 100 percent healthy, but not

00:20:47.940 vaccinated. I will say this. A lot of this is happening because of, you know, who are are are

00:20:53.820 everyone's favorite bureaucrat, Dr. Anthony Fauci, who, thank God, is retiring this month. It's finally

00:20:59.380 happening. I was worried he's going to back out, but he's actually going forward. I mean, not that he's going

00:21:03.120 to be replaced by somebody who doesn't share all of his worldviews, but he's just a villain in my eyes.

00:21:08.540 And he gave an interview. It was like his exit interview and was asked the quintessential exit

00:21:14.000 interview question. And listen to how he answered. This is Saudi.

00:21:19.540 Right. Is there a moment of your career that you wish you could do over?

00:21:27.680 You know.

00:21:34.260 Yasmin, no. And I know they're going to people are going to respond to that

00:21:38.040 who say, well, what does he think? He's perfect. Absolutely. I'm the first to admit I'm far

00:21:44.200 from perfect. But when you say do over, you know, I really can't see something that I would do

00:21:50.380 completely over. Really? Not the school closures, not like none of that. The abuse of children and

00:21:57.680 all the learning loss you have. You have no regrets about that now that all the information has come

00:22:01.060 back to you. No, he doesn't. He really does think he's God. Yeah. The thing that I worry most about

00:22:08.000 with respect to the pandemic is the degree to which there's just been a lack of official

00:22:12.520 introspection about what went right and what went wrong, what policies made sense and what policies

00:22:17.440 didn't. I mean, from a public health standpoint, it was an absolute debacle at the state level

00:22:22.580 across most of the country and certainly at the federal level, without a doubt. And there just

00:22:28.200 aren't serious conversations happening about what works and what doesn't, about what is efficacious

00:22:34.100 and what's not. It's the reason why he's still being asked questions about whether or not it might

00:22:37.560 make sense to shutter schools again. Should we even entertain this? The answer is,

00:22:42.280 absolutely no. We shouldn't have done it to begin with. We now know that. And going forward,

00:22:48.320 what do we do the next time around? How do we go about assessing our risks? This is not the last

00:22:53.620 time we'll have to deal with a pandemic sort of situation. And it seems to me that the only thing

00:22:58.800 that we have at our disposal is the new playbook that we've developed, which includes lockdowns and

00:23:05.080 masking, whether or not it's efficacious. And when available, vaccine mandates, which run against

00:23:11.140 a lot of the concerns that plenty of people have, and a lot of just confusing messaging

00:23:16.760 throughout the pandemic about what the vaccines can and can't do, there should be some serious

00:23:23.620 conversation about whether or not it makes sense to overpromise, to be overconfident, or if it's

00:23:27.880 appropriate to hedge some of your recommendations and to be a little bit more transparent and to just

00:23:32.780 be honest, which is one of the things that Mr. Fauci has acknowledged. He hasn't been completely honest at

00:23:38.480 different points during the pandemic. How about your lies, your many lies that you've admitted

00:23:43.440 that you told us that undermine faith in public health? How about the attacking the Great Barrington

00:23:48.940 Declaration doctors who had a really smart proposal early on to focus protection on those who most

00:23:55.440 need it, the most vulnerable? And instead, you embarked on a campaign to ruin them. The school

00:23:59.960 closures we mentioned. How about funding gain of function research in the COVID Wuhan lab with

00:24:04.600 the Bat Lady? Was that something you'd like to have back? I mean, this guy, this is our problem.

00:24:09.560 No, no regrets. I did it perfectly.

00:24:11.880 No Bat Lady do-over. That was a strange one. I thought he was going to say Bat Lady do-over.

00:24:17.020 Who doesn't want that? 0.53

00:24:17.640 I think Camille's right. We've been talking about this on The Fifth Column, which is America's best

00:24:22.440 podcast, if you were unaware. And we've been going through this quite frequently, is that the things

00:24:28.400 that we knew, or we thought we knew. And I'm one of those people that has happened to be around other

00:24:33.380 parents who were wearing these obnoxious T-shirts that said, I believe the science. And the science

00:24:39.480 was different the day that the guy bought the T-shirt and the day that he was wearing the T-shirt.

00:24:43.860 And the thing about it was, is that we never went back and actually had conversations about what was

00:24:47.800 true and what wasn't, what worked and what didn't. There was at no point did we ever have a conversation

00:24:53.020 about, we have to stop washing our groceries. We have to stop doing this to our hands all the time

00:24:58.060 with hand sanitizer. People were obsessed. You couldn't get hand sanitizer anywhere. And then all of a sudden

00:25:02.720 that went away. And that was kind of like a campaign of people being both frustrated and kind of, you know,

00:25:08.100 assuming that that was true, but there was nothing from the government. And it goes beyond, and I say this

00:25:12.900 because it goes beyond the school closures, which, you know, no one in the country where I used to live,

00:25:17.540 Sweden, very, very progressive, very, very government intervention friendly, shall we

00:25:23.000 say country, didn't close their schools for a second. And maybe you want to go back and look

00:25:27.400 at that. But all of the things that we thought were true, including things like you have to take,

00:25:32.940 you have to get vaccinated because you can't, or you can't come to this restaurant. You can't come

00:25:36.800 to work. You can't come to a concert. Well, why pray tell? Because you'll spread the virus.

00:25:41.960 Now, at what point did the government come out and say, and Karine Jean-Pierre has a great little

00:25:46.360 platform there and say, you know what? We thought that was true. Cut us a little slack. We're all figuring

00:25:51.100 this out at the same time, but it turns out to no longer be true. Find me an example of people doing

00:25:55.680 that. They do not. You have to figure this stuff out on your own. So it becomes this kind of melange

00:26:00.720 of like misinformation, old information, outdated information. And, you know, if Anthony Fauci wants

00:26:06.180 to go backwards and look at anything, I'd say that he could probably do everything, every single thing

00:26:12.040 that we mentioned in, in some of that stuff, by the way, I'm not going to give him a hard time on

00:26:16.180 because we didn't know. But when the science changed, the messaging didn't. And that is

00:26:22.620 really, really important. What's crazy about Fauci, though, is he did know. He knew a lot of it.

00:26:26.700 All these old clips that have surfaced of him saying, like, you really do have to watch it

00:26:31.160 because if you've had something like the flu and you develop natural immunity, then you might not

00:26:35.880 want to get a vaccination because those two things could interfere. And like he actually understood

00:26:41.260 a lot of the dynamics that would wind up playing out in COVID. He just decided to deny it all

00:26:45.420 once he was placed in this role. Go ahead, Matt. Yeah. And he also, let's never forget,

00:26:50.840 was part of the cabal early on in the pandemic who said, oh, yeah, masks actually don't work

00:26:55.520 because we're worried that you're going to buy them all up. We're going to have a shortage.

00:27:00.720 And that's I mean, the CDC's own guidelines stretching back 10, 15 years ago about what to

00:27:05.840 do in a pandemic. They underscore over and over again, the most important thing is to level

00:27:09.880 with the public, including about what you don't know. Absolutely. And because they're going to need

00:27:14.880 to believe that you are credible in order to follow your, uh, your recommendations when you 0.92

00:27:20.800 say, oh crap, uh, this one's really important. You got to do this. Um, and they, they stress this.

00:27:26.400 I mean, it's as important as anything else in the recommendations and their playbook and how to do

00:27:30.580 it. And they botched that from the beginning, from February, 2020, they botched it again in March,

00:27:36.400 2020, and they continue to do it now. Uh, it's a, it's, it, it is a shame and we won't learn.

00:27:42.840 And in the process now we've developed an entire set of skepticism about the efficacy of vaccines and

00:27:48.600 all kinds of, we're going to see vaccine role, uh, mandate rollbacks in, uh, in schools and

00:27:53.960 elsewhere. Maybe some of them are appropriate, maybe not. Uh, I would tend to think that most

00:27:58.320 of them would not be appropriate rollbacks. Uh, but people now have lost faith and it's completely

00:28:03.380 understandable. It's an own goal that they've lost faith, uh, in the public health authorities,

00:28:08.400 many of whom like Fauci, like Rochelle Walensky changed their tune. Like they said one thing,

00:28:13.040 uh, at this crucial moment, Walensky said famously, that's a, you should keep schools open in July,

00:28:17.660 2020, uh, and then change their tune once other people got their fingerprints on it. Um, and unless

00:28:23.840 until we have that reckoning that you're not going to rebuild that faith and that we're kind of in a

00:28:27.940 bad spot for the next pandemic. And by the way, you know, they, they seem to cater on the left

00:28:32.980 and Fauci in this administration to their most fearful constituent. You know, they, they think

00:28:38.960 of the person who I saw on the Upper West side, literally in a hazmat suit during COVID. I tweeted

00:28:44.320 it out. I mean, there's evidence, there's picture evidence. Um, and they cater to that, to that guy,

00:28:49.880 not, not to reason, not to science, not to developments in facts and science and so on.

00:28:55.500 No, to the lead, to the most fearful person amongst their base. And that brings me to the

00:29:02.860 Twitter story. Okay. We saw the Matt Taibbi Twitter files. He added additional color to

00:29:09.420 what we did know, which is Twitter suppressed the Hunter Biden reporting by the New York post

00:29:13.700 without facts. Uh, it claimed it was Russian disinformation obtained through a hack, potentially

00:29:20.280 none of which was true and none of which they had any good faith basis to believe.

00:29:23.460 They just decided it was magic wand, decided it, and then suppressed a story right before

00:29:28.320 a presidential election. We all know the real reason that's, that's, it's not being said.

00:29:31.860 They did it to help Joe Biden. That's what, that's what the real reason is. They never really

00:29:35.300 believed it was disinfo. They did it to help Joe Biden. And, um, the guy responsible for those

00:29:41.760 decisions, like the head of the Twitter censorship unit, his actual title is, um, head for, he's now

00:29:47.760 former head of Twitter's trust and safety department. And he did oversee this decision,

00:29:52.820 this particular decision to suppress the New York posts reporting. He sat down with Kara Swisher

00:29:59.680 over on her podcast on November 30th. His name is Yoel Roth. And I heard this on Ben Shapiro's show

00:30:06.260 and went back and listened to myself and my God, the guy, first of all, um, he said, yeah, okay,

00:30:12.480 maybe, maybe it was a mistake to censor that story. Yeah. But it was, it was very difficult

00:30:17.220 to initially verify it. That's why you made no effort. You made zero effort, zero effort,

00:30:22.540 zero whatsoever. And by the way, let's not forget when Twitter censored it, it was before those

00:30:26.260 alleged intelligence officials came out and said, Oh, it looks like disinformation. Twitter went

00:30:30.820 before those guys, some, some, this guy, Yoel Roth, who absolutely knows nothing decided it was

00:30:36.620 disinformation before general Michael Hayden did. Um, so then she follows up and asks him about,

00:30:42.200 was it the right decision to ban Donald Trump from Twitter? Now, this one, this one, he stands

00:30:48.420 behind. This was absolutely the right one. And they get into January 6th. This is all speaking

00:30:54.500 on the fear factor. Okay. That just washes over huge portions of the democratic base. Listen to this

00:31:02.700 exchange. Donald Trump. That one, I don't think was a mistake. January 6th. So it, it starts on the

00:31:10.960 6th, but it also starts prior to that. The events of the 6th happen. And, um, if you talk to content

00:31:17.480 moderators who worked on January 6th, myself included the word that nearly everybody uses is

00:31:22.880 trauma. We, we experienced those events, not some of us as Americans, but not just as Americans or as

00:31:29.660 citizens, but as people working on sort of how to prevent harm on the internet. My God.

00:31:35.980 I'm in heaven. Moynihan thoughts. Do you have an extra 40 minutes? Um, trauma. I love this. This

00:31:46.580 is a word that has been, um, I was actually talking to a friend about this this morning. We saw this in

00:31:50.320 another context. It is, there's a certain generational thing where people abuse this and I hope they

00:31:54.960 understand that in other countries, I mean, you know, let's do the throat clearing. The January 6th

00:31:59.920 was an abomination and horrifying and, and a, and a dark day for America. Uh, I don't like Chuck

00:32:05.480 Schumer compare it to a Pearl Harbor or anything like that, but trauma trauma for whom for you and

00:32:12.380 at Twitter headquarters in, in San Francisco. If you look out into the great wide world, there's all

00:32:19.060 sorts of news stories happening in lots of countries, which are far more like actually traumatic than

00:32:24.540 something happening with a bunch of, uh, yahoos that are trying to storm the Capitol and overturn 1.00

00:32:29.680 the election. Um, which was never going to happen. But the other thing about this is I stick by the

00:32:34.820 Donald Trump banning. Does anyone ever stop and think about how useless it is that it's just virtue

00:32:42.580 signaling because Megan, we started talking about this at the top of the show. Donald Trump, um, had

00:32:48.460 this little epistle the other day about, uh, uh, shredding the constitution. And it was in some

00:32:53.380 language that resembled English. It was kind of like a hybrid of English and like some sort of

00:32:59.680 Sasquatch language. And I saw it. I don't have true social. It was everywhere on Twitter because

00:33:06.820 people take screenshots of it and put it on Twitter. What are you trying to do? Are you trying to suppress

00:33:11.720 the bad information? Because we need that information. The man has actually said he's going

00:33:15.780 to run for president in 2024 and he was previously the president. What is the idea here that, well, no,

00:33:21.500 I don't know. I just want to signal me, random guy that works at Twitter in the trust and safety

00:33:27.800 and protection and trauma division that I, I don't want, I don't like these ideas in the trauma

00:33:34.140 ward. We are very, very upset about them. We have to get them off. It's like, well, you're not going

00:33:37.900 to suppress them. Are you? I mean, Alex Jones got banned and I, I, you know, I've interviewed Alex

00:33:43.480 Jones as you have. I think he's a nut. I think he's a performance artist. I think he's a ludicrous 0.97

00:33:47.940 person in so many ways. And he did an interview with Kanye or Ye or whatever his, his pronouns 0.99

00:33:54.000 are. And yay. And sorry, Camille. And I saw it everywhere, despite the fact that he's been banned

00:34:00.780 from YouTube and banned from Twitter. And it's like, you can't contain this kind of information.

00:34:05.480 So for the ridiculous Kara Swisher to be up there with this ridiculous guy saying, how do we sort of 0.88

00:34:11.360 contain all this information? You can't, it's called the fucking internet. And you are doing this for 1.00

00:34:16.160 yourself. You're doing this. So you look good. You're not doing it like the New York post story.

00:34:21.080 And I, this is a, you know, I'll, I'll knock on Republicans a little bit here when they say,

00:34:24.760 much like Democrats said that, you know, Hillary Clinton wouldn't have would have won the race in 0.99

00:34:31.120 2016. I've hadn't been for these Facebook ads that Russia took out. The sort of inverse of that

00:34:37.460 is now that had people known about the Hunter Biden laptop, Donald Trump would have lost. I think

00:34:42.960 that's patently absurd. But also that information got out there. Number one,

00:34:48.380 this is all sorts of alternative news outlets. I think that the Twitter stuff is absolutely absurd.

00:34:54.720 It was in the post. It was in the post. It was on the front cover of the New York post.

00:34:58.200 It's absurd and, and Orwellian that they're shutting down a New York post news story.

00:35:02.740 By the way, the idea that you can't verify something, how many Russiagate stories could you

00:35:07.280 actually verify by, you know, tunneling into the Kremlin, going through the files into seeing if

00:35:12.700 this stuff was true. Verification happened when nobody from Hunter Biden's office returned a call

00:35:17.900 to say, that's not my laptop. That's when you start reporting it.

00:35:22.220 That's exactly right. And by the way, they don't, they weren't worried about verifying Sarah Palin's

00:35:26.400 emails when they reported those after they'd been hacked. They had absolutely no problem verifying

00:35:30.800 that. It made, it made her look bad print. That's it. So there, who are they kidding? They have no

00:35:36.180 moral high ground. I don't know whether it would have changed the election. I find it very hard to

00:35:39.620 believe the stuff about Hunter and the big guy being corrupt. Now we're talking, right? If the media had

00:35:45.080 done its job and really framed the story properly, not Hunter Biden's depicts and his prostitutes and his 1.00

00:35:50.340 drugs, like he's a hot mess loser. That's not going to change hearts and minds before an election, 0.99

00:35:55.560 but he's a corrupt jerk who brought his dad in on all of his shady business dealings. 1.00

00:36:00.940 And we're about to put that guy back in the white house. And by the way, Hunter will be there right 1.00

00:36:04.360 alongside him. That could have given some people pause who will never know. That's the bottom line.

00:36:08.800 We'll never know. And, and that's because of them and guys like this who were swimming in their trauma,

00:36:14.380 their trauma, their own politics and their own politics of fear. This is the people who are running

00:36:20.200 our social media sites, our government. To me, it's so disheartening. I just, I look at them like,

00:36:25.640 would you, would you man up, you know, who hasn't been abused on the internet? Who the hell hasn't

00:36:30.600 been through, you know, attacks or harassment? I mean, I'm sure you guys have felt it. I certainly

00:36:35.340 have been through it. You live to emerge out the other side and you're fine. Would you just grow a pair?

00:36:40.760 Yeah. Moderation is, is like completely worthwhile. This is a necessary function on social media

00:36:46.280 platforms. What you want is moderation that is thoughtfully transparent, that is consistent,

00:36:51.760 that is actually practical and useful. It's not only as, as one hand correctly pointed out that

00:36:56.940 people are reposting this stuff. They're posting super cuts of the worst elements of the interview.

00:37:01.960 The most incendiary comments are the ones that you get a fire hose of fire hose with tens of

00:37:08.340 thousands of retweets because that's engagement. They want that. They permit it to happen while at the

00:37:13.360 same time, they're sanctioning people for sharing links, locking their accounts and telling them in

00:37:17.640 order to get it unlocked, you have to delete this link. None of it made any sense whatsoever and

00:37:22.520 none of it was keeping anyone safer. And at the same time, from a moderation standpoint,

00:37:26.060 there's so much genuinely dangerous and genuinely problematic content that they're having a very

00:37:31.280 difficult time wrapping their hands around. So I think it's, it's vitally important that we're

00:37:36.060 having good content moderation, but it's also really valuable to have Taibay out there doing some

00:37:42.120 actual reporting on this to get some, some transparency with respect to the kind of decision-making that's

00:37:46.940 happening at trip, Twitter, Twitter. It's happening elsewhere as well. And let me ask you a follow

00:37:52.740 up. Users want to know how this stuff works. Let me ask you a follow up, Camille. Do you think these

00:37:56.580 guys are worried about what's going to happen to Matt Taibay with the shitstorm that's raining down 0.91

00:38:00.460 on him by these leftist reporters who think he's some sort of a turncoat, sort of some sort of a 0.93

00:38:04.760 traitor for doing his job for actually reporting news? I mean, Glenn Greenwald was asking this the

00:38:09.520 other day, like, oh, are they going to hold themselves accountable? God forbid something should happen to

00:38:12.960 Matt, who's taking it like a level of incoming for just doing reporting. That is truly breathtaking.

00:38:18.760 The standard only applies one way. You can rain down as much of a shitstorm on a conservative 0.97

00:38:23.800 or somebody type. He's a liberal who's just heterodox. Those people are all totally fair game. 0.97

00:38:31.480 He's he's doing his job. Like his job is to report the facts. It doesn't matter where you happen to get

00:38:36.100 these facts from. You don't turn down a source because you say, oh, I'm sorry, you're the richest person

00:38:40.600 in the world. I can't take this useful information and provide it to the public.

00:38:44.700 And it was so astonishing to watch people poo-pooing his reporting in real time before they'd had an

00:38:52.120 even an opportunity to look at all of the stuff he'd amassed. And it sounds like there's going to be

00:38:57.800 additional reporting, that there may be some more details. Is it the most incendiary thing in the

00:39:01.900 universe? Absolutely not. But is it frustrating to learn that the federal government and various

00:39:07.980 members of various members of government, members of different bureaucracies, people who are running

00:39:12.120 for office are having these backchannel conversations with major social media providers

00:39:16.860 and telling them, oh, that account is problematic. Oh, those tweets need to be taken down. And the

00:39:22.200 response from these social media companies is, we'll get right on it, already taken care of.

00:39:27.300 That's a little strange. And by the way, their defense, their defense on that has been, oh,

00:39:31.840 well, he wasn't in the government when he when, you know, it was the campaign that was working

00:39:36.280 with Twitter. OK, so that doesn't whatever we have free speech principles that we'd like to uphold,

00:39:40.760 particularly if you want to be president. And so, no, it may not be a violation of law,

00:39:44.940 but it's a principle that we happen to hold dear. But secondly, who are we kidding? You think this

00:39:49.720 stopped once he got into office? I don't know what happened with respect to suppression of Hunter

00:39:54.460 Biden stories. But I do know that, number one, on Ashley Biden's diary, he sicked the FBI on James

00:40:01.400 O'Keefe for considering reporting it. OK, that was this president while in office sicking the DOJ on

00:40:08.820 somebody who reported on his daughter's diary. All right. Didn't even report on it. Just just got

00:40:13.640 it like had access to it. He didn't release it. Right. And secondly, we watched them from the White 0.81

00:40:19.420 House podium talk about the disinformation dozen and how they'd been working with the social media

00:40:24.600 companies to silence the people who unfortunately for them wound up on the White House list. There

00:40:31.400 was obvious coordination, state coordination. Let's look at what they did to parents who they

00:40:35.980 decided to label as domestic terrorists. We know that there was coordination with the White House

00:40:40.860 to set that whole thing up. Then he sicked the DOJ on those parents. This White House has been

00:40:45.700 crossing lines legally since before it even got into office when it was when Joe Biden was running to

00:40:51.660 become president. Don't don't gaslight us with the oh, he was only running for office because this is a

00:40:57.480 pattern with him. Yeah. And the disinformation attempts to have a disinformation czar to have

00:41:03.920 the surgeon general, the surgeon general out there like leading a disinformation task force, at least

00:41:09.220 sounding the biggest alarm. This is what we need to do. The problem right now with COVID, the reason why

00:41:13.700 it's not licked is all that is Alex Berenson. So we need to like breathe heavily on the neck of

00:41:19.520 Twitter to make sure that Alex Berenson doesn't have an account. He's back on Twitter now.

00:41:23.140 Thanks to Elon Musk. That is chilling. It is literally chilling speech. It is the government

00:41:29.360 which the federal government, which has Twitter and all big social media companies in its regulatory

00:41:35.340 crosshairs. It can it can pull you up on Capitol Hill and give you like a little show grilling at any

00:41:42.420 time that it wants to. And it has a lot of business there. And right now, both parties in different

00:41:47.040 ways are lining up to try to regulate and crack down on social media for different reasons of

00:41:51.980 their own. So there's all kinds of reasons for these companies to want to be responsive to a

00:41:58.580 federal government or surgeon general or anybody who breathes on them about how disinformation is

00:42:03.720 deadly. It's killing people. Remember, Joe Biden said that Facebook is killing people. And that's like

00:42:09.740 a normal thing, you know, to say, no, it's not. Facebook is not killing people. And nor is it tipping

00:42:15.300 elections or anything like that. What we have is that people all over America, sadly, too many of

00:42:20.160 us not on this necessarily conversation, but too many normal Americans don't have trust in Americans,

00:42:25.720 by which I mean, they seek to try to suppress people to block their ability to spread messages

00:42:31.420 because they worry that if they are exposed to this one little message, it's going to produce a

00:42:35.980 political outcome in particular that they don't like. It is a stupid and illiberal idea when we have 1.00

00:42:42.340 billions of ideas right now, just zipping back and forth all the time in real time. We live in a 1.00

00:42:46.960 free country. It's great, right? There's some problems. Yes. But it's great that we can express

00:42:51.320 each other, express things to each other freely. And the problem is that everyone is worried about

00:42:57.420 that, that they think that it is the thing that's going to cause the problem. It's not. And we need to

00:43:02.320 get over that. And it's the free flowing exchange that is helpful. We cut down, we cut short so much

00:43:08.720 COVID debate, scientific debate in this country through political pressure and peer pressure.

00:43:14.280 It's shameful. It set us back. It ties the two segments together.

00:43:17.920 Fear. And by the way, Alex Berenson, he actually got back on because he sued Twitter. That's how he

00:43:22.800 got back on Twitter. He sued them and unearthed the documents of the Biden administration pressuring

00:43:28.880 Twitter to boot him off of it and wound up. There's more to that story. We had him on recently,

00:43:33.800 but, but your, your point about, we live in a free country and I said, let's enjoy it while

00:43:38.420 we can. Reminds me, I'll give you a quick story before we, before we go to a break. My daughter,

00:43:43.280 Yardley was younger. She was like eight, nine. And we went to the planetarium in New York and

00:43:48.140 she had her little jumper on, you know, it's like a skirt. It's like a one, a one, one piece. It's

00:43:52.600 got a skirt at the bottom. And she put her feet up in the, on the seat in front of us. And I said,

00:43:56.360 Yards, you know, that's not very polite. You should take your feet down. That's not,

00:43:58.540 that's not polite. And that's, that's not ladylike. And she said, well, I'm not a lady yet. Let's enjoy

00:44:03.040 it while we can stand by. We got to take a break. Be right back with the guys from the fifth column

00:44:10.460 who stay with us for the entire show. Guys, Kirstie Alley died. I was so sad, right? To see

00:44:20.440 it. She was only 71. They, her, her children released a statement saying she was such a fierce

00:44:28.480 fighter. It was a quick illness. She had cancer. They reported today in the news, it was colon cancer.

00:44:34.320 Apparently it came on quickly and, um, and, and took her life. I, it's hard to believe so young

00:44:40.200 and just such a force of nature and somebody, I'm sure, I don't know, Camille, you seem too young,

00:44:43.900 but you other guys seem closer to my age that we grew up with. How do I, how am I supposed to take

00:44:48.740 that? Was that good, Matt? Are we okay with that? He's like 40 years older than us. I think white 1.00

00:44:54.500 cracks as well. Yeah, exactly. Jesus. Um, now I watched her on, on cheers and everything and, uh,

00:45:01.240 and was a fan. And, um, the one thing that I will say is that I, I want to implore all Americans

00:45:07.240 to do something is just to walk away from politics for a little bit sometimes. And so you don't have

00:45:12.740 to do that, that kind of a caveat when, when you're saying something about somebody who just passed

00:45:17.780 away. I didn't, I didn't always agree with her. You know, we agreed to disagree. It's like,

00:45:22.280 who cares about her politics? I don't care if she was a Scientologist. I don't care if she was a 1.00

00:45:26.160 Trump supporter. I'm neither, but she was a person and, and her, her kids wrote a very lovely thing

00:45:31.880 about her on, on Instagram and just be respectful. I just want to, uh, to give a shout out to the look 0.77

00:45:37.460 who's talking series, which has been unfairly overlooked. And it was John Travolta's first

00:45:43.520 comeback before Pulp Fiction. Uh, that's underrated. It was great.

00:45:46.480 What about North and South? Do you remember North and South? I think she might've,

00:45:51.320 she might've met her husband, Parker Stevenson while doing this. Oh God. This is like this old

00:45:57.560 civil war. Yes. Mini series, right? Yes. Mini series. She was so young, totally gorgeous. And

00:46:04.380 Parker Stevenson, who she later married is in it. I, I, I, that's not the same as the war,

00:46:12.000 is it? Yeah. You, you, and so we're not the same age, Megan. Thank you very much for dropping,

00:46:16.740 you know, the winds of war with, uh, from 1975. Have you seen the Thornbirds? Cause that,

00:46:22.680 speaking of the Thornbirds, she's not in that. Chamberlain. Chamberlain. I didn't know he was

00:46:26.880 gay, by the way. Did you know he was gay? I didn't know that. No, I didn't know that.

00:46:30.180 Not that there's anything wrong with that. Nothing wrong with that. I just got it right.

00:46:32.740 What's wrong with that? All right, no, wait, we're up against a hard break. So I'm going to save my

00:46:36.260 Kirstie Alley soundbite until after this quick break. Cause we have to play just a couple of

00:46:40.780 things with her and a, and a memory or two. So continuing with Kirstie Alley, for those who

00:46:48.420 don't know her, who are like Camille, so young, um, let's take, let's take a little walk down memory

00:46:56.620 lane. Cheers. You got to understand people who weren't around watching it at the time was like,

00:47:01.860 it was the thing to watch when there were only three things on television. I mean,

00:47:06.520 we all watched cheers. It was like, you would set your, your alarm so that you were making you like,

00:47:11.380 it was what it was at eight o'clock or on Thursday nights. And you would watch cheers. You had an

00:47:15.580 appointment with Sam Malone and you'd go to the little bar where everybody knew your name.

00:47:19.220 And Kirstie Alley came in as sort of the new manager of cheers when somehow Sam lost ownership of

00:47:24.700 the bar. And, uh, she was sort of, she began as this buttoned up figure who, who always had this sort

00:47:29.700 of weakness. This, she was way more frail than she outwardly projected. And you fell in love with

00:47:34.640 her really quickly because she tried to be so tough, but you could see she was kind of a hot mess. 1.00

00:47:38.600 And, uh, our producers put together just a little bit of a montage of some of her work. Here's Kirstie

00:47:43.540 Alley.

00:47:45.480 I'm the wife of a plumber. We're going to have a whole bunch of little plumbers. 1.00

00:47:51.700 And the horrible part of it is that he's too good for me.

00:47:57.680 Gee, Miss Al, I mean, uh, Mrs. Sandtree. I, uh,

00:48:01.380 And my name's Mrs. Sandtree.

00:48:05.480 I think I'm beginning to see you in a whole new light.

00:48:10.860 Well, why don't you tell me what you see?

00:48:13.540 Look, you have a really weird face. 0.99

00:48:20.880 Your eyebrows are growing together like a big old ugly caterpillar. 0.99

00:48:28.120 Oh, look, they're cutting the cake. 0.96

00:48:31.920 Look, Sam, just because I put my work before my social life does not mean I don't have boyfriends.

00:48:36.760 I have boyfriends. I could pick up that phone and have a dozen dates for Friday night.

00:48:40.160 Yeah, but could you get one as great looking as I am?

00:48:42.380 Blindfolded, gagged, and with both hands tied behind my back.

00:48:45.880 We were just talking about a party Friday night.

00:48:52.840 Let me see. 1.00

00:48:54.160 My choices are I'm a boozy slut or a complete idiot. 1.00

00:48:59.660 I'd go with the idiot. 1.00

00:49:04.680 I already did. 1.00

00:49:07.000 Oh, such good stuff.

00:49:10.680 She was amazing.

00:49:12.080 And she honestly, like you mentioned, look who's talking and, you know, many, many other films and television shows that made her a household name.

00:49:20.680 And then, you know, yesterday when it was announced that she would she had died, she would have been just universally celebrated.

00:49:26.800 As you point out, you know, Moynihan, you don't have to do the thing, but I'm sorry to do it.

00:49:31.120 So here's just a couple of here's some color on what you were hearing.

00:49:35.880 OK, Kirstie Alley became a Trump supporting COVID conspirating nightmare of a person before she died. 0.96

00:49:44.540 I'm not even sad.

00:49:45.520 Then again, I liked her in Cheers on Veronica's closet. 0.68

00:49:49.860 She seemed ballsy and bold, great hair. 1.00

00:49:51.780 Then she seemed odd, Scientology odd. 1.00

00:49:53.560 Then she became a Trump loving idiot. 1.00

00:49:55.500 I'm sorry she died. 1.00

00:49:56.460 I wish cancer on no one.

00:49:57.660 No doubt should be missed by those who loved her.

00:49:59.440 Oh, OK. 1.00

00:49:59.860 We had to point out she became a Trump loving idiot. 1.00

00:50:01.700 Like, why can't people? 1.00

00:50:04.360 It reminds me of something that Roger Ailes once said to me, you know, about how he knew that when he died, nothing but terrible things would be written about him.

00:50:12.660 He knew.

00:50:13.060 And so any good he did in his life, he just did it because he genuinely wanted to do good.

00:50:18.440 He didn't do it because he thought it would wind up reflecting well on him in his obit.

00:50:23.620 And the truth is that if you are right leaning, right of center, center with heterodox views, a leftist Hollywood person who voted for Trump, that's how your obit will sound.

00:50:36.360 That's how people will talk about you when you're gone.

00:50:38.800 And it's really there's something really disgusting about it.

00:50:41.500 It's unseemly.

00:50:43.060 Particularly when it's not your business, right?

00:50:45.680 I mean, I don't mean it's not someone's business to pay attention, but that's not the business she was in.

00:50:50.060 The thing that happened was Twitter.

00:50:52.840 The thing that happened was the Internet.

00:50:54.700 And now we had a megaphone and we could actually talk about the things that interested us and talk about the things that we were thinking.

00:51:01.780 Christy Alley didn't run for office. 1.00

00:51:03.380 She wasn't, you know, running for local council and she wasn't a national political figure.

00:51:07.140 But she did talk about politics in the way that everybody talks about politics when you see that on Facebook or you see that amongst your family and friends.

00:51:13.680 And, you know, there's nothing wrong with that.

00:51:16.240 The problem is if we start kind of bifurcating the country and to those we agree with and disagree with on that and everything becomes politicized.

00:51:24.540 I won't go to this pharmacy because I saw the pharmacist online.

00:51:27.800 He was talking about some political view that I disagree with.

00:51:29.900 It's just a very poor way to live.

00:51:31.840 And it's, you know, you're poorer for cutting off people who you disagree with.

00:51:37.240 I mean, like, look, I think that the documentary that HBO had about Scientology was fantastic.

00:51:42.840 I think the whole thing is a very bizarre, bizarre cult.

00:51:47.900 I didn't begrudge her for being in it.

00:51:50.400 I'm kind of fascinated by it.

00:51:51.840 But particularly when she dies, I'm not going to say, here are your religious beliefs and I'm going to start questioning them now in wondering if that has any effect on on your death.

00:52:02.860 It's just a very dark way of looking at the world.

00:52:05.380 And they wouldn't have been doing that if not for the Trump support and some of the covid questions she raised.

00:52:10.740 Go ahead, Matt.

00:52:11.680 Correct.

00:52:12.180 I mean, are we going to say that about John Travolta?

00:52:14.360 Are we going to say about Beck, one of my favorite musicians?

00:52:17.160 Is that going to lead his thing?

00:52:18.480 Probably not because they didn't support Trump.

00:52:20.280 I recall like 10, 15 years ago, the Tea Party was getting off the ground.

00:52:24.920 The drummer of the Velvet Underground, Bo Tucker, right?

00:52:27.800 Not the world's most popular band, but super influential people who love the Velvet Underground.

00:52:32.360 Famously, it was said the 5000 people bought their first record and they all started bands.

00:52:36.440 And she was a drummer.

00:52:37.600 She was great.

00:52:38.460 And just like this strange, polite woman from, I think, Nebraska or Kansas.

00:52:43.760 And she was spotted at a Tea Party rally.

00:52:46.780 And my God, so many people were so like foundationally upset that the drummer on a 1968 record that they revered used their First Amendment rights to go and show up at a rally.

00:53:01.160 It shows that people who are like standard issue Democratic voters are used to having the culture on their side.

00:53:08.700 They have no practice of enjoying art from people with whom they disagree.

00:53:14.240 Come into our world.

00:53:15.500 You don't have to agree with me politically.

00:53:17.060 I mean, God knows I don't.

00:53:18.480 But come into our world of being outnumbered and then you could just enjoy the art for what it is.

00:53:23.920 And you don't care what their politics are.

00:53:26.160 Moynihan loves Billy Bragg.

00:53:27.360 They don't have the same politics.

00:53:29.240 That's fine.

00:53:30.400 No.

00:53:31.060 Well, under a Billy Bragg regime, I would be in a camp.

00:53:34.000 Camille loves Kanye or just yay.

00:53:36.100 Yay now.

00:53:37.060 What about that?

00:53:37.800 I know you've been I've been listening to you guys and I know you're very disappointed in Kanye's latest comments, behavior.

00:53:43.900 However, we want to sum up what's happening.

00:53:45.260 Disappointed and worried about him.

00:53:46.200 Both both things.

00:53:47.460 Yeah.

00:53:48.040 So what about that?

00:53:49.280 Because, you know, we've had a lot of debates in general on whether you can separate the man from the music, the man from the art.

00:53:56.540 I think you can.

00:53:58.140 I mean, I guess it's a case by case basis.

00:53:59.880 It depends on just how how much it's in your head.

00:54:03.440 But I don't know.

00:54:05.020 Do you think anybody's going to stop listening to Kanye or to yay music because of all this?

00:54:09.260 I don't know.

00:54:10.180 I suspect some people may say so.

00:54:12.420 You know, he wasn't making much in the way of new music that was particularly stellar.

00:54:19.300 Some of his more recent efforts have only been OK.

00:54:22.340 But some of the classic stuff, it's hard to imagine people abandoning that altogether.

00:54:26.520 The poster over my left shoulder is I mean, this is his catalog up until the last two albums.

00:54:33.260 So I'm that big a fan.

00:54:34.700 And I don't expect that poster is coming down anytime soon.

00:54:37.260 But I've had a lot of practice disagreeing with Kanye on a range of important issues and not always endorsing or being excited about his private, personal conduct.

00:54:48.780 But I can still appreciate his music.

00:54:51.300 I can still draw something from it.

00:54:53.040 And I think we were talking on the podcast recently and Moynihan said something that really resonated with me about kind of the crisis of certainty that we have in our in our politics and in our polity right now.

00:55:03.280 This sensibility that we can't even break bread with. 0.52

00:55:07.020 We can't imagine talking to people who disagree with us in a serious way because we know so with such confidence that these people are rotten and corrupt down to their very cores.

00:55:19.320 And that is deeply unhealthy.

00:55:21.560 That's certainly not something that I want any parts of.

00:55:24.820 There are very few people on the planet who I imagine are so deeply corrupt that I simply couldn't even talk to them.

00:55:30.240 And I don't think people who disagree with me about politics domestically here in the United States are generally of that ilk, whatever direction our disagreements happen to manifest in.

00:55:40.920 I have to say, being a lawyer helps practice that skill.

00:55:46.100 You know, even last week I had on Jose Baez, who's Casey Anthony's lawyer.

00:55:49.720 He's the guy who got her acquitted.

00:55:51.180 I mean, he is the guy who got her acquitted.

00:55:53.260 And we had some spicy exchanges on a couple of issues.

00:55:56.820 And then we moved right on.

00:55:59.600 And then we kind of talked about other cases.

00:56:01.040 The temperature came right down and we forged forward because I think lawyers are in practice of getting heated, you know, fighting over something that matters and then putting it to the side immediately and moving on with your life and not demonizing opposing counsel.

00:56:16.040 In fact, usually when I was practicing, like you'd have beers with opposing counsel, the nine times out of 10, you're taking a deposition in some small town. 1.00

00:56:21.720 You go in, you fight, you know, you call the judge, you tell the other person, this guy's an asshole. 0.98

00:56:26.340 And then the deposition ends and you go out for dinner because you're the only person the other person knows in this entire small town. 0.99

00:56:31.640 You know, like we need more people to get practiced at that, where you can hate the argument, you can fight the argument, but you don't have to hate and fight the other person all the time.

00:56:40.800 Isn't that the lesson we learned from Cheers, Sam and Diane, and then Sam and Kirstie, but more Sam and Diane.

00:56:47.680 They are different people that come from different worlds.

00:56:49.740 I presume they vote for different humans and that's fine.

00:56:52.980 It's not a big problem.

00:56:54.020 Just go.

00:56:54.360 I mean, if we're going to go down the list of Kirstie's, you know, hits that taught us that lesson.

00:56:58.120 How about North and South?

00:57:00.060 That was, it was, what's his name?

00:57:03.140 Patrick Swayze.

00:57:04.320 You love North and South.

00:57:06.100 I call, we saw it like within the past two years.

00:57:09.200 Don't, don't.

00:57:10.120 And then there was like a sequel, which I don't recommend.

00:57:12.100 But Patrick Swayze was the guy from the South who was off the plantation and his dad was a slave owner.

00:57:16.700 And then the guy, I can't remember his name, the actor, he's less of a household name who played the guy from the North who was his best friend and they were split by the war.

00:57:25.640 Okay, anyway.

00:57:27.820 So, yeah, rest in peace, Kirstie Alley.

00:57:29.780 I appreciated her outspokenness, her, her, the laughs she gave me and my family over the years.

00:57:35.620 And she did take a political beating online and I appreciated her temerity in the face of that, too.

00:57:41.940 She, she will be missed.

00:57:43.500 Okay, let's talk about some other things happening in media as the media pounces on her. 1.00

00:57:47.520 Some crazy stuff is going on.

00:57:49.320 Touched on this yesterday.

00:57:51.000 ABC News is in the middle of a scandal with its two anchors who host the third hour of GMA.

00:57:55.640 Um, Amy Robach and TJ Holmes.

00:57:59.720 And they originally took, she was just off the air after the scandal broke that they'd been having an affair, which is scandalous because they're both married to other people.

00:58:08.980 And according to the Daily Mail, which has been following these guys for like six weeks, two months, maybe.

00:58:13.480 I mean, the length of pictures is like, how do they not know they're being followed for this long?

00:58:17.100 But anyway, um, they took just her off the air or she just took herself off the air on Thursday after the story broke. 0.93

00:58:23.380 He anchored. Then Friday, they both appeared together, didn't acknowledge it.

00:58:27.520 Then Monday, they were pulled off the air by the president of ABC saying this is too much of a distraction for our staff, for our viewers and so on.

00:58:35.940 Uh, the reporting is that not only were they having an affair while married to other people, they were going out on double dates with the spouses, you know, like, yeah, this adds another element for sure that her older children that she had with Andrew shoe, her husband, star of Melrose Place, would babysit TJ Holmes's younger children.

00:58:55.760 Um, you know, his wife is reportedly devastated and so on.

00:58:59.220 So you can see how this got sticky quickly for the news organization because they, two of these people are employed as morning news anchors and as the morning news anchor, you know, it's all about the female audience in particular and how they view you.

00:59:12.780 Um, then it came out yesterday that he was reportedly, this is according to page six, I think the Daily Mail broke the story, but then page six and the Daily Mail reported yesterday, he was having another affair prior to Amy Robach with a GMA producer who fell in love with him.

00:59:31.120 Um, that woman was married, she, he was still married while he was having this affair, then it came out on page six late yesterday, he had a third affair with another ABC staffer reportedly.

00:59:43.360 So it's starting to feel a little Matt Lowry, except for the power dynamic, which matters legally and ethically.

00:59:50.940 It matters if it doesn't sound like he was in a superior position to any of these women.

00:59:54.420 Um, and now they're stuck with a real decision to make over to ABC, which is, can anybody come back?

01:00:02.120 Can she come back?

01:00:03.320 She didn't have three affairs.

01:00:04.500 She reportedly just had the one.

01:00:06.020 They're leaving the spouses. 0.99

01:00:08.020 Can he come back?

01:00:09.360 Can you, do they both come back?

01:00:10.760 Do they both get filed?

01:00:11.400 Like what happens?

01:00:13.000 And it's interesting because to me, it's 2022 America.

01:00:15.700 It's not, not, it's not 1960.

01:00:17.780 It's 2022.

01:00:19.440 You know, a lot of people have marital issues and make bad choices.

01:00:22.120 Um, but there's an extra element here of his repeat behavior, the standards we hold men

01:00:28.720 to the standards we hold women to on morning television. 0.96

01:00:30.960 What do you guys make of it?

01:00:33.180 I mean, it's not of anyone's business, to be honest, but I mean, I don't, I might have

01:00:38.000 a kind of outlier position here in the sense that, um, I don't think that either of them

01:00:42.720 did anything wrong that anyone who watches or listens to that show, I don't know the show.

01:00:48.900 I, I, I don't, to be honest, um, why they should care about it.

01:00:52.620 I mean, their spouses, obviously they can say they did something wrong or maybe they

01:00:55.880 had an arrangement.

01:00:56.740 We don't know that there are people that have such arrangements.

01:00:59.840 I mean, I actually, the husband has just deleted all of Amy Robach's pictures from

01:01:03.940 his Instagram.

01:01:04.460 So I'm guessing he's not too thrilled.

01:01:06.780 I would, I would imagine not.

01:01:08.600 Um, the, you know, it's bad press too.

01:01:11.400 And, uh, you know, the three affairs is, uh, is impressive, but is there a threshold for

01:01:16.140 affairs?

01:01:16.420 Like you can't come back in the air after four, but three is five.

01:01:19.640 Are you asking for a friend, Moynihan?

01:01:20.620 I don't know.

01:01:21.500 I mean, no, I'm asking for a friend because, you know, I've never been there.

01:01:24.480 Is that friend on this panel?

01:01:26.240 No, never have I been in a situation like this.

01:01:28.820 Um, I got to five and they were like, you're good.

01:01:32.440 Six, like, don't push your luck, Moynihan.

01:01:34.800 Fringe too far.

01:01:35.200 But the thing about it is I think there's an extra layer that's added onto this.

01:01:38.440 And it's regardless of whether or not these things are okay or they're legal or they

01:01:43.680 violate some sort of company policy, it's just the general air that kind of has been

01:01:48.100 hanging heavy after the me too stuff.

01:01:50.780 Is it any interaction between people at work?

01:01:54.760 And if you have ever worked in media and if you've ever worked in television, you know,

01:02:00.840 as you know, Megan, I know this very well, is that you spend all your time at work.

01:02:05.460 You spend all your time on the road.

01:02:07.860 These things end up happening.

01:02:09.340 Half the people that I know who have gotten married, they have gotten married because they

01:02:12.900 met at work.

01:02:13.740 But there has been a kind of chill about this stuff recently.

01:02:17.140 Now, I know this is obviously a different story, but it has that thing that's always

01:02:21.960 a part of it in the post me too thing, because you're looking for power dynamics.

01:02:25.580 You're looking for this because even if there was a power dynamic, maybe somebody falls in

01:02:29.060 love with somebody that is much their junior.

01:02:32.180 And should we not allow that?

01:02:33.920 Should someone have to sacrifice their job in order to maintain a relationship?

01:02:37.960 The only thing that is different here is the repeat offense kind of thing and the fact

01:02:41.520 that they were married, but I don't know if that's a violation of policy like you have

01:02:45.400 to.

01:02:45.720 But there's there's one other element.

01:02:47.200 There's one other element to it, which is the morals clause.

01:02:49.820 And I raised this with our legal panel yesterday.

01:02:51.580 Sure.

01:02:52.540 You know, television news anchors tend to have a morals clause in their contract that says

01:02:57.920 the company can fire you if you do anything that brings the company into disrepute or yourself

01:03:01.420 into disrepute because the ratings are based on your relationship with the viewers at home,

01:03:05.480 with the audience at home.

01:03:06.620 And that's why they now that doesn't mean necessarily it depends on the actual way it's

01:03:11.660 written.

01:03:12.240 So for sure, GMA can fire them from GMA for no reason.

01:03:17.260 I mean, like pretty much you can pull any company never guarantees you have this role

01:03:21.840 forever, you know, or even the contract.

01:03:23.740 But they have to pay you.

01:03:25.060 But if you violate the morals clause, they don't have to pay you.

01:03:27.620 And, you know, there's a good argument, at least if we were 19, even 80, we don't have

01:03:34.140 to go back to 60 or 50, you go to 1980, 1990, there'd be there'd be no question that this

01:03:39.400 would qualify as a violation of the morals clause.

01:03:41.400 But we're in 2022.

01:03:43.400 And I just don't know.

01:03:44.900 I just don't know if an extramarital affair would even would even get there under our sort

01:03:50.480 of present day.

01:03:51.480 Anything goes in the bedroom and elsewhere society standards.

01:03:54.840 And if if so, if they did violate it, you got to turn from both.

01:03:59.200 Right.

01:03:59.360 Because even post me, too.

01:04:01.500 You can't just fire the guy. 0.98

01:04:03.640 TJ Holmes happens to be black, which also doesn't really help. 0.99

01:04:07.280 You can't just fire the black guy and you can't just fire the woman, right? 0.98

01:04:09.640 Like both these people are in protected categories. 0.97

01:04:12.560 So the GMA is in a pickle.

01:04:14.280 I just I see how the head of GMA and the head of ABC has got a real decision to make.

01:04:19.280 I will tell you, if it were me, if I were running this company, you have to worry about

01:04:23.380 more than just these two.

01:04:25.380 I would say, given he's a serial fish off the pier guy, while he knows he's a face of

01:04:30.980 ABC News, which is not OK.

01:04:33.620 And given that she, you know, she's in morning television, the female audience relationship 1.00

01:04:37.440 with a female news anchor is very important.

01:04:39.580 I'd say no one's coming back to the third hour of GMA.

01:04:41.920 You guys are not fired.

01:04:43.720 You're going to be correspondents.

01:04:45.220 She does 2022, I think.

01:04:47.820 But we're going to have to find new hosts of GMA.

01:04:50.040 And you know what?

01:04:50.740 We'll be fine because no one's indispensable.

01:04:53.800 So it's cycling.

01:04:54.680 You're saying cycling them out of their positions at GMA, but not axing them entirely.

01:04:59.280 That I can I can see.

01:05:00.980 I mean, you know, you say it's 1980 versus 2022.

01:05:03.660 We do realize today that earlier we were talking about how Herschel Walker is on the ballot

01:05:07.760 today to maybe go to the Senate, just maybe they can tell us what's happening, you know,

01:05:14.840 with the new I don't know what I don't even know it's on GMA.

01:05:18.280 I literally don't know.

01:05:19.520 But yeah, I imagine the third hour.

01:05:21.800 I mean, I did third hour of the show.

01:05:23.360 It's usually very lighter.

01:05:24.900 It's very much lighter.

01:05:25.780 It's fun.

01:05:26.680 But the thing that was always said to me was it's an all female audience and the relationship

01:05:30.900 with the with the women watching.

01:05:32.440 It reigns supreme.

01:05:34.300 And I remember Roger saying back in the day, like he didn't want any of the female. 1.00

01:05:38.940 He wanted the female anchors that he hired to be used to say, I want a guy you can have 1.00

01:05:43.840 a beer with and a woman who you want to sleep with. 0.99

01:05:45.540 That's sort of his short form, but but not too much, not too much because he didn't want

01:05:51.000 women at home thinking that you're going to steal their husband. 1.00

01:05:53.500 And that's like you can times that by 100 for morning television anchors who have an all

01:05:58.380 female audience. 0.97

01:05:59.860 Is this guy attractive?

01:06:00.860 I mean, ladies like TJ, of course, he's a T.J.'s attractive.

01:06:04.580 Yeah.

01:06:04.780 Yeah.

01:06:05.040 Maybe now they think they have a chance.

01:06:06.360 He does.

01:06:06.600 This is what I'm saying.

01:06:07.160 A lot of stuff.

01:06:08.140 I don't know.

01:06:08.740 I think I think I put the question to the two of them and say, look, yeah, you keep it

01:06:12.740 together.

01:06:13.520 Can you both be on set together?

01:06:15.240 You know, is this going to be OK?

01:06:17.920 If they say yes, even if they're going to carry on.

01:06:21.380 OK, let it ride.

01:06:22.720 I don't imagine there is anyone who is not going to watch this network anymore because these

01:06:28.900 two are continuing to be the host of this show, even if they never talk about it, just

01:06:34.460 kind of a gentle kind of brush of the hand on set occasionally.

01:06:39.720 I don't know.

01:06:41.600 I mean, that's back to the 20, 20, 20, 1950.

01:06:44.840 Oh, we don't.

01:06:46.100 Don't say those names here.

01:06:49.100 I'm sorry.

01:06:49.600 I mean, look, Megan, you, I and Camille worked in the same building for a while.

01:06:57.400 And Moynihan is no stranger to television and that building as well.

01:07:01.900 Imagine.

01:07:02.520 Close your eyes.

01:07:03.200 Imagine if just since there's morals clauses in the world, how would you assess the median

01:07:09.700 morals of the on air talents at the people that you've worked with?

01:07:14.440 Oh, no, no, no, I'm not saying that's a consensuous industry. 0.73

01:07:19.580 I can only judge myself, Matt, and it's really disgusting.

01:07:22.640 And so I thank you for pointing that out.

01:07:24.440 That's what I'm talking about.

01:07:24.920 I hadn't been thinking about it personally, but I'm like.

01:07:27.080 Speaking of hand sanitizer.

01:07:28.560 Yeah, I'm actually.

01:07:29.740 I need hand sanitizer and I'm going to nullify my own contract in about five minutes.

01:07:33.700 Well, if I may transition.

01:07:35.660 My disrespect is for the morals clause, not the people.

01:07:37.040 I want to make that clear.

01:07:38.020 I think it's a it's a weird thing to have.

01:07:39.940 It's a it is 1950s.

01:07:41.340 It's strange.

01:07:41.880 If they can fire you for an extramarital affair, you need a better morals clause writer.

01:07:46.280 You know, you need to have your lawyer tighten up your morals clause because that I mean,

01:07:49.940 really, am I like, OK, fired.

01:07:51.740 But I understand the position again, back to the morning TV thing.

01:07:54.560 OK, transitioning now to another couple that had an affair and at least one of them was

01:08:01.460 currently in the TV business and then the other one was trying to break in.

01:08:04.320 Believe it or not, I'm taking you to a place you did not see coming.

01:08:06.960 And that is a place involving Keith Olbermann and Katie Turr, who I know you guys told me

01:08:12.160 the last time you like Keith Olbermann is doing a podcast, which I have a pal over in

01:08:17.520 Australia, Paul Murray, who sends me Keith Olbermann clips.

01:08:22.280 I love this guy.

01:08:23.360 Why?

01:08:24.160 Everyone because every once in a while he goes on a rant and it's kind of entertaining.

01:08:28.360 You know, he's a terrible man, not Paul Keith.

01:08:30.980 And so some of them are entertaining at times.

01:08:33.960 Well, this was just a weird one.

01:08:36.380 Those two had a relationship with Keith when Keith Olbermann was like, I think he was pretty

01:08:40.360 much a household name at this point.

01:08:41.600 And she was just trying to break into the business and they lived together for three years.

01:08:45.940 And that was some 15 years ago.

01:08:48.360 Well, he's, to my knowledge, never spoken about it before, but he's ready to now because

01:08:54.340 he did a like 15 minute diatribe on her on his podcast going off.

01:09:00.120 What what upset him?

01:09:01.440 What was the trigger?

01:09:02.120 She was in the news with her current husband.

01:09:05.600 She was never married to Keith, but her husband, who works, I think, at CBS, because the husband

01:09:10.020 got a vasectomy and they decided to go public with his information.

01:09:13.060 And honestly, to Keith Olbermann's credit, he was like, why the hell do we care?

01:09:16.300 Like, why do you feel the need to go report that to the news station so you can get your

01:09:18.960 face in the papers or something else in the papers where they're talking about your vasectomy?

01:09:23.780 And then it just led him down a lane where he just decided to tell about 25 secrets about

01:09:29.100 Katie Tur. The segment is called something like secrets.

01:09:32.500 I said I'd never tell, which is like, well, that's a great name for a segment, but it really

01:09:36.460 makes you a terrible person.

01:09:38.000 But here's just a little bit of what he said.

01:09:40.720 On January 22nd, 2017, Katie Tur of MSNBC asked me to write her Trump book for her.

01:09:52.940 She was serious.

01:09:54.540 And there are receipts.

01:09:55.860 So all this time, I have remained silent about the nearly three years she and I lived together

01:10:01.540 and the eight years after that, during which I remained her good and loyal friend.

01:10:05.660 And I have remained silent, even though the day she moved into my place in New York, she

01:10:10.560 expected a New York TV station would hire her with no experience and no audition tape. 0.99

01:10:15.940 And I have remained silent about how her father, whom she has never stopped trashing, sent her

01:10:21.220 $10,000 worth of cameras and editing equipment to help her get started.

01:10:25.860 And I have remained silent, even though she sent me nearly all of her scripts for her NBC

01:10:30.920 news stories, including her Trump campaign coverage in 2016.

01:10:35.440 And I edited nearly every one of them.

01:10:37.980 And several times I had to completely rewrite them for her.

01:10:41.480 And I have remained silent, even though six days after my emergency appendectomy in 2007,

01:10:46.440 she started punching and slapping me with real intent to do harm because the living room 1.00

01:10:52.620 wasn't clean enough in our place.

01:10:54.500 And how exactly do you even try to defend yourself against a woman, 125 pounds lighter 1.00

01:11:00.460 and a foot shorter than you?

01:11:03.320 Is it over?

01:11:04.300 What?

01:11:05.220 Oh my God.

01:11:06.200 Oh my God.

01:11:07.260 Bitter party of one.

01:11:09.120 What a disgrace. 0.99

01:11:10.480 I mean, that man has been a disgrace. 0.66

01:11:12.360 And I'll just say this. 0.88

01:11:13.460 I've heard things about Keith Olbermann over the years and I wouldn't say them.

01:11:18.080 It's not my place to say, but I would imagine he'd want to be careful about stuff like that.

01:11:22.140 But what is the purpose of this?

01:11:24.120 What is the purpose of denouncing an ex-girlfriend?

01:11:27.140 By the way, did that not sound like Keith Olbermann?

01:11:29.340 Did he have...

01:11:29.960 He didn't sound like an old person.

01:11:32.520 That is an old man.

01:11:33.820 Okay.

01:11:34.560 If you listen to the list of grievances, he's like, there was an article about it in the

01:11:40.340 New York Times.

01:11:41.340 The New York Times reported that they reached out to me for an interview and I didn't respond

01:11:45.360 or declined to participate.

01:11:46.800 None of that is true.

01:11:47.580 I contacted the New York Times reporter and said, did you reach me?

01:11:50.700 Did you text me?

01:11:51.480 Did you email me?

01:11:52.300 No.

01:11:53.160 I said, none of what you reported is true.

01:11:54.900 She said, well, I asked Katie Turr if she would ask you to participate.

01:11:58.420 And she told me, you said no.

01:12:00.560 And he was like, Katie Turr clearly didn't want Keith Olbermann to be consulted for this

01:12:05.640 thing.

01:12:05.880 And I mean, his level of outrage over these minor slights is it's just disproportionate.

01:12:11.540 I don't know what's happened there, but it's something it's like it's very trainwrecky

01:12:16.260 to watch an ex.

01:12:17.940 Both of these people are public figures go public with this list of grievances and try

01:12:21.980 to take down a woman who's clearly moved on. 0.96

01:12:23.760 She's married to somebody else. 0.98

01:12:24.660 Her career is fine.

01:12:25.620 His career seems I don't know.

01:12:26.900 I mean, his podcast is very entertaining.

01:12:28.340 I'm sure it's doing.

01:12:29.440 I don't know how it's doing.

01:12:30.520 I don't know.

01:12:31.340 But bitter, bitter, bitter.

01:12:32.660 But I mean, yeah, there's something terribly ironic about pushing grievances and while insisting

01:12:40.080 that, you know, you kept these secrets for a very long time and you're chastising her

01:12:45.360 for talking about a medical procedure in public while you're just airing all of your dirty

01:12:51.280 laundry.

01:12:51.780 She asked me to help her write a book.

01:12:53.700 Oh, OK.

01:12:54.320 I don't I certainly want to dismiss claims that you've been attacked, that there was

01:12:59.640 some sort of domestic violence in your relationship.

01:13:02.420 The fact that you carried on a relationship afterwards and were very friendly until you

01:13:07.480 decided not to be like this is just really strange.

01:13:10.960 It's like a bizarre sort of way to snap.

01:13:12.960 He's a mean guy.

01:13:13.880 He really is a mean guy.

01:13:16.980 And there's just look, he said some nice things about Stuart Varney.

01:13:20.100 So I should temper my criticism because I don't really know Keith Olbermann at all.

01:13:24.320 I just know that when he makes headlines on Twitter or on a show, it's nine times out

01:13:28.400 of ten.

01:13:28.940 It's he's being absolutely caustic about somebody with whom he was once close.

01:13:34.280 You know, it's like it's one thing to have strong opinions about the news.

01:13:37.260 God bless.

01:13:37.860 That's what he gets paid to do.

01:13:38.960 It's quite another to be going after people personally with your with your microphone,

01:13:44.160 people you used to live with, people you used to love.

01:13:47.660 Anyway, the whole thing is awkward.

01:13:50.140 But, you know, that's our business.

01:13:51.820 I do remember that a lot of people in politics and the media are constantly guilty of projection.

01:13:59.160 And for a long time, Keith Olbermann's signature segment was called what?

01:14:04.120 The worst person in the world.

01:14:05.280 The worst person in the world. 0.99

01:14:05.980 Yes.

01:14:06.880 And it was always him at the end.

01:14:08.420 That was the twist.

01:14:11.720 The big reveal.

01:14:13.400 All right.

01:14:13.600 The big reveal.

01:14:14.040 I'm going to nominate somebody else for today's worst person in the world.

01:14:17.380 And that you won't be surprised to hear is Meghan Markle, the Duchess of Duplicity.

01:14:24.920 Wait until you hear what she did with her latest trailer. 1.00

01:14:29.540 It's already full of bull.

01:14:31.660 It's full of lies that she's already gotten caught in.

01:14:34.600 They haven't even released part one.

01:14:36.160 It comes out on Thursday.

01:14:37.500 That's next, guys.

01:14:38.620 Stand by.

01:14:42.880 Before we get to Meghan and Harry and the many, many lies that have already been told in their trailer.

01:14:48.680 It's bad when your trailer is full of duplicity.

01:14:51.300 Can we spend one minute on Michael Avenatti?

01:14:54.440 Former darling of the left wing press.

01:14:57.600 I mean, darling.

01:14:58.940 Because he kept going after Trump.

01:15:00.300 He represented Stormy Daniels. 0.81

01:15:02.280 He was a dog with a bone when it came to Trump.

01:15:04.800 He was on every single CNN show, MSNBC show, you name it.

01:15:09.860 Well, he has just been sentenced to 14 years in prison.

01:15:13.960 14 years for embezzling millions from his clients and for obstructing IRS efforts to collect payroll taxes from his coffee side gig.

01:15:25.480 He was also ordered to pay $7 million in restitution.

01:15:29.620 He pleaded guilty in June to stealing money from his clients, including one who's a paraplegic.

01:15:33.860 Um, this sentence will run consecutively with his combined five-year sentence he got in New York for stealing from Stormy Daniels and for, per extra good measure, extorting Nike.

01:15:46.440 Now, just in case you don't have it in your head how Brian Stelter talked about him as a presidential candidate or how he was built up into a hero by the media, here's a little flashback sought tend to Anna Navarro and how she viewed Michael Avenatti at the time.

01:16:05.120 Lately, to me, you're like the Holy Spirit.

01:16:09.640 You are all places at all times, right?

01:16:13.580 I mean, you, I do.

01:16:14.820 I see you all over cable news.

01:16:16.720 I see you.

01:16:17.380 You know, there is a seat available if you want to be a co-host at the view.

01:16:21.600 You might, you know, if there's people here, you can pitch.

01:16:22.980 Oh, my God.

01:16:25.120 The Holy Spirit.

01:16:26.420 Like the Holy Spirit.

01:16:28.360 Why is it on television?

01:16:30.340 That's a good question.

01:16:31.940 Zero skepticism about him, the claims he was making, about Stormy, about this, remember that Julie Swetnick character he claimed had witnessed Brett Kavanaugh in, in, at some party where there was a gang rape going on that he didn't participate in, but he was there.

01:16:46.720 Lies. 0.99

01:16:47.280 I called that out on NBC in great detail and listed Julie Swetnick's long history of questionable behavior, and he accused me of being a turncoat on women because I didn't support them all.

01:16:55.900 That led to some ugly exchanges.

01:16:58.540 But he came on my show while I was at NBC.

01:17:01.260 All right.

01:17:01.460 And I just want to take you back.

01:17:03.140 This is how it went.

01:17:03.880 He was trying to say, poor Stormy, poor Stormy.

01:17:06.800 You know, she signed this nondisclosure agreement and she took the money, but she's been silenced unfairly. 0.89

01:17:12.220 She really wants the world to know about her relationship with Donald Trump.

01:17:15.340 But they're unfairly silencing her. 0.99

01:17:17.180 It's like, well, why did she take the damn money there? 0.99

01:17:19.680 Right. 0.99

01:17:19.900 So this is how that went at the time when everybody else is lionizing him, patting myself on the back.

01:17:24.300 But just FYI, here's how it went when he came on my show.

01:17:28.740 This is the nonsense that they expect the American people to believe.

01:17:33.340 But that doesn't answer why.

01:17:34.660 Why does Stormy, why do you care? 0.59

01:17:36.560 That's a political matter for these people to care about.

01:17:39.120 But like, why would you why would Stormy Daniels be leading the charge on whether whether that payment violated the election law? 0.68

01:17:46.300 Because and I mean, this is the honest to God truth.

01:17:49.620 This is a principled woman at this point.

01:17:51.340 She wants the truth.

01:17:52.820 She wants the truth.

01:17:54.380 Now they're laughing at you.

01:17:55.740 No, but you know what?

01:17:58.020 They may.

01:17:58.660 Come on, they're saying.

01:17:59.360 Come on.

01:17:59.760 She wants she's so principled that 11 days before the election, she had information about the possible next president having an extramarital affair with with an adult film actress. 0.99

01:18:09.060 And she shut up about it in exchange for just over 100 grand. 1.00

01:18:13.820 Yeah.

01:18:14.380 And I think she's providing the explanation as to why that is.

01:18:17.060 Because she wanted the money.

01:18:19.140 She wants she wants that. 0.96

01:18:20.700 She wants the truth to be known to the American people.

01:18:23.440 Then why did she take the money? 0.86

01:18:24.640 Why didn't she just talk 11 days before the election? 0.97

01:18:27.500 You'd have to ask her that.

01:18:28.500 I don't have an explanation.

01:18:29.240 Come on.

01:18:30.140 She wanted the dough.

01:18:31.160 And now she wants to keep the dough while violating the agreement. 1.00

01:18:33.880 She doesn't.

01:18:34.280 Which, whether you like Michael Cohen or Donald Trump or not, doesn't seem fair to them.

01:18:37.980 Megan, she doesn't want to keep the dough. 1.00

01:18:39.440 We've offered to return the dough.

01:18:41.300 What's stopping you?

01:18:42.280 It was two weeks ago.

01:18:42.660 It was two weeks ago.

01:18:43.460 It's very simple.

01:18:44.140 You take out the piece of paper and you write one hundred thirty thousand dollars and then you mail it.

01:18:48.500 That's great.

01:18:50.120 He's a bad lawyer.

01:18:52.320 That's amazing.

01:18:53.520 I didn't see that.

01:18:54.740 That's so good.

01:18:55.480 Just FYI, it was less than three weeks after that point, which.

01:18:59.240 NBC and I suddenly parted ways.

01:19:01.080 But in any event.

01:19:03.200 Mysterious.

01:19:04.080 Yeah.

01:19:04.640 Mysterious.

01:19:05.140 So in any event, the it's really the end of their love affair with him.

01:19:10.560 But it's yet like the Twitter thing, like the suppression of Hunter Biden.

01:19:14.440 It's yet another massive mistake they made in judgment.

01:19:17.340 Let's don't even get started on Jussie Smollett. 0.98

01:19:19.980 Another massive mistake in judgment for which there's no accountability.

01:19:23.180 Right.

01:19:23.520 They just brush right past it.

01:19:25.160 I bet they won't even be reporting that he just got sentenced to 14 years in prison and that he's not the Holy Spirit.

01:19:30.260 And he's not going to be president.

01:19:32.120 And once again, they were wrong.

01:19:34.700 And why were they wrong?

01:19:36.460 A good faith mistake?

01:19:37.720 No, because their ideology led them to fall in love with a charlatan because he was saying negative things about Donald Trump.

01:19:45.260 It's an amazing thing that, you know, soon after the election, and I remember this very clearly, the number of people saying, and I was probably one of them, saying, I cannot believe we elected a kind of low rent TV star, you know, camera hog to be to be president.

01:20:04.320 And then all the people in the media decided that they wanted that again.

01:20:08.900 They hated that so much.

01:20:10.320 And then Michael Avenatti, I mean, I mean, Chris Silliza, go look up Chris Silliza, recently departed from CNN.

01:20:17.040 You know, Chris Lick's first great decision is firing him.

01:20:20.240 But he had a column, you know, President Michael Avenatti, you know, never say never.

01:20:25.400 And it was all this wish casting about maybe he will be our president.

01:20:29.100 So this man who was going after the TV star, who is a bit shady and loves women in all the wrong ways, maybe we'll elect this guy, Michael Avenatti.

01:20:40.320 Who is pretty much the mirror version of that, but worse than the fact that he's stealing from paraplegics. 0.50

01:20:46.580 He's stealing from porn stars.

01:20:48.120 He's stealing from everybody. 0.67

01:20:49.040 He's trying to shake down Nike.

01:20:50.880 And this stuff was like, if you see the, and go look this up, people go onto Twitter and see some of the exchanges that people have posted with Michael Avenatti, who had sent direct messages to people who had criticized him.

01:21:03.060 And they were this gloating, like, you're a loser, you're never going to make, and people posting these, and it's like, see you in 14 years, buddy.

01:21:10.180 And there's something kind of hilarious about it. 0.97

01:21:12.560 But we fall in love with charlatans because the guy was like, you know, reasonably good looking, and he was on TV, and he was saying the right things about Donald Trump.

01:21:20.520 That's the point.

01:21:21.220 Beware anyone who is absolutely perfectly servicing your own need for political fan fiction.

01:21:29.480 They are the one who seems like they can go against your enemies better than anybody else.

01:21:34.620 Most likely, they are doing that in such a way to enrich themselves, possibly and even probably at your expense.

01:21:40.800 They just are, you're going to mash that donate button.

01:21:43.740 Go scare yourself by watching the Lincoln Project documentary that was recently on Showtime.

01:21:49.060 Talk about people who absolutely was wish fulfillment for Democrats who hated Trump.

01:21:54.260 All of these guys who've been working in Republican politics for a thousand years combined, and been involved in all kinds of absolutely scummy behavior, turn on a dime,

01:22:03.560 and they make tons of money, creating generational wealth, in their words, based on other people's sense of political hatreds.

01:22:11.720 I'll just add to all of that, that 14 years is a long time for someone who didn't punch anybody in the mouth. 0.99

01:22:17.820 We lock people up for too long in this country, even absolute scumbags like Michael Avenatti. 0.99

01:22:22.460 Libertarian to the end. 0.99

01:22:23.680 I'll say this about Avenatti.

01:22:27.600 Well, on NBC, you know, people don't, whatever, they may not remember all this. 0.99

01:22:33.200 But I was very defensive of Brett Kavanaugh, and I could see that the claims against him were bullshit and called out bullshit. 0.98

01:22:39.560 Christine Blasey Ford, she was a tougher case than everyone else who came after her, right? 1.00

01:22:43.640 Because she had no proof, but she had a story that she was willing to tell, and she could tell it consistently, unlike everybody else who came after her.

01:22:50.360 But it was very clear that there were problems in all those claims, and I pointed them out.

01:22:55.620 However, I think Michael Avenatti thought that he was coming to yet another sycophantic interviewer,

01:23:00.940 because the Friday before he came on, I had interviewed Michael Cohen's lawyer.

01:23:04.340 And Michael Cohen is being accused of interfering with the election by buying her silence 11 days before Trump got elected.

01:23:09.700 And I gave that guy a very hard time, equally hard.

01:23:12.620 It didn't go well for that guy.

01:23:14.020 I remember Hannity tweeted out, like, that guy needs to be fired after that interview.

01:23:17.460 And so it didn't go well for that guy.

01:23:20.540 And so Avenatti thought he was coming on with, like, somebody who probably didn't like Trump,

01:23:25.060 because, you know, Trump had come after me and all that stuff, and walked right in.

01:23:29.300 And I wasn't unfair with him.

01:23:31.060 I was fair with him.

01:23:31.980 I asked him tough questions.

01:23:33.160 But think of what could have happened.

01:23:34.580 Think of what could happen in general if we had a media that was just hard on both sides,

01:23:40.720 you know, that just that gave him a hard time on his claims, 1.00

01:23:43.480 that gave whatever the Twitter guy a hard time and his stupid trauma claims 0.98

01:23:48.740 and whether they wound up in a good decision that pushed back on these people that they instead lionized. 0.98

01:23:54.860 You know, it's just that what do they say?

01:23:56.740 That the definition of regret is the difference of what is and what might have been.

01:24:00.820 And I feel that way about our media.

01:24:02.620 They just they so disappoint me.

01:24:05.120 People like Avenatti, like I'm disgusted by my industry.

01:24:08.800 I'm sad about what they've become.

01:24:10.580 I don't trust them.

01:24:11.580 I feel the way Victor Davis Hanson does in the barn burner of a piece he just posted,

01:24:15.600 just talking about the many media sins that have led people to just turn off.

01:24:20.480 They've just turned up.

01:24:21.560 They don't trust the media anymore.

01:24:23.300 And for good reason.

01:24:25.600 Right.

01:24:25.900 It's it's all related to the stuff I was just listing.

01:24:31.400 Yeah, without a doubt.

01:24:32.320 I mean, we've we've talked many, many times about the polling on public trust in various

01:24:38.020 institutions and the media in particular.

01:24:40.020 And one of the things that I've highlighted in the recent weeks is the delta between the

01:24:45.800 people who trust the media, who generally tend to be left of center, which is somewhere

01:24:50.020 like 60, 70 percent say, yeah, no, we absolutely trust it.

01:24:53.680 And everyone else, independents and conservatives alike who are down in the teens or the low

01:25:00.160 20s and have just been there consistently.

01:25:03.940 I mean, the numbers have been going down consistently and they're stuck in the gutter.

01:25:08.240 And I think it has everything to do with the perception of bias, with the perception of just

01:25:13.340 rank in curiosity on the part of many people, particularly in kind of elite media, elite media

01:25:20.320 circles. It is very hard to do good work in a circumstance like that, where you already

01:25:26.160 know the answers to the questions that you plan to ask and you already know the questions that you

01:25:30.240 would never in a million years ask because you want your guy to do well.

01:25:34.600 It is bad for business.

01:25:36.140 And ultimately, it's going to be bad for the people that you favor, that you like, and

01:25:40.480 certainly bad for your industry.

01:25:41.940 It's not just a matter of kind of making mistakes.

01:25:44.800 It's making a bunch of systematic errors in these kind of predictable ways over and over

01:25:49.260 and over again and never, ever, ever going back to say, I'm sorry, we did wrong.

01:25:55.000 We're going to get it right.

01:25:56.440 That's right.

01:25:56.860 And Michael Knowles was saying yesterday, the mistakes are all in one direction, too.

01:26:00.420 OK, last but not least.

01:26:02.680 So do we call them the Markles, the Windsors, the Sussexes?

01:26:07.600 I don't know what we call them. 0.99

01:26:08.940 The losers. 0.99

01:26:09.440 The losers, the losers, the attention, desperate liars, they through Netflix have released 1.00

01:26:17.780 yet another trailer. 0.97

01:26:19.280 I guess the first one didn't generate enough attention.

01:26:21.200 Yet another trailer for their upcoming Netflix special.

01:26:24.280 And already the number of people coming forward to say what's in there, it's just in the trailer

01:26:29.420 is false.

01:26:30.500 It's kind of stunning for a one minute trailer.

01:26:34.080 I'm just going to give you an example.

01:26:35.700 We played it yesterday.

01:26:36.680 You can find it online.

01:26:37.980 One, there's a picture of poor Harry dealing with the terrible media who's like overly intrusive

01:26:43.220 in his relationship with Meghan and Harry.

01:26:44.900 He's got his hand up to the camera like, stop.

01:26:46.580 Well, it turns out that was a picture of Harry and his old girlfriend, Chelsea Davey.

01:26:50.080 It was taken years ago.

01:26:51.200 I didn't even know Meghan Markle.

01:26:52.400 So misuse.

01:26:53.320 Here it is.

01:26:54.580 Misrepresented as evidence of how the press badgered Harry and Meghan.

01:26:57.780 No, it wasn't.

01:26:59.720 They have one picture of the media swarming them.

01:27:02.620 You know, poor Harry and Meghan.

01:27:03.620 They've gotten it so bad.

01:27:04.560 There's so much attention against them.

01:27:05.500 Actually, that was a picture of the press swarming someone named Katie Price, who had

01:27:09.600 been a model who had been accused of like some sort of mild crime.

01:27:13.040 And she's a big star.

01:27:14.180 And the press was hounding her.

01:27:15.880 Not Meghan.

01:27:16.440 Not Harry.

01:27:17.220 Same thing for another picture in which the press was hounding the people at the Harry

01:27:22.140 Potter premiere like J.K. Rowling and the stars, not Meghan, not Harry, neither of whom was

01:27:28.280 in any version of Harry Potter, right?

01:27:30.240 Taking all these.

01:27:30.780 But this is this is their evidence that the press has been so intrusive and unfair to

01:27:34.820 them and overwhelming of their lives.

01:27:36.480 Last but not least, there's a picture of them and of the intrusive press, according to Harry

01:27:42.300 in this, taking a private photo of them with their baby.

01:27:46.380 And in his line is like how bad the press is and how intrusive they are.

01:27:49.900 Well, the guy who took the photo tweets out. 0.94

01:27:52.600 This is absolutely ridiculous. 0.88

01:27:54.120 The guy's name is Robert Johnson, Jobson. 0.80

01:27:57.240 And he says this photograph used by Netflix and Harry and Meghan to suggest intrusion by

01:28:02.660 the press is a complete travesty.

01:28:04.620 It was taken from an acclaimed photographer at Archbishop Tutu's residence in Cape Town.

01:28:12.740 Only three people were in the accredited position.

01:28:16.280 Harry and Meghan agreed to the position.

01:28:19.200 I was there.

01:28:20.180 He was one of them.

01:28:21.180 And then points out there was no intrusion.

01:28:23.560 I was part of a three person UK palace pool.

01:28:26.180 Nobody else was allowed in.

01:28:27.600 We shared the words and photos with the UK media with their permission.

01:28:30.680 All of this now is their evidence about how bad the British press is, how bad they've had

01:28:37.520 it.

01:28:38.140 And I'm not saying there wouldn't be evidence you could find to show over, you know, an

01:28:43.380 imposition by the British press.

01:28:44.780 I'm sure it is hard to be the center of that much attention.

01:28:48.320 But this just gives you a flavor for their.

01:28:52.300 They don't have an adult relationship with the truth.

01:28:54.380 These people, they don't.

01:28:55.280 The most charitable reading that one could give that is that editors often pick stock

01:29:01.260 photos and put together trailers without the knowledge of people, but they'll have sign

01:29:05.880 off on it.

01:29:06.280 So they should see that and presumably know that, well, that's not that.

01:29:09.580 And that's not that.

01:29:10.560 I think the bigger issue here is the absurdity of this idea that the press is intrusive.

01:29:17.160 Is it intrusive?

01:29:18.180 It absolutely is.

01:29:20.060 But guess what?

01:29:21.660 You chose it.

01:29:22.540 Well, I didn't choose a hereditary monarchy.

01:29:25.260 No, no, no.

01:29:25.800 You have a deal with Netflix.

01:29:28.000 Your wife has a podcast deal with Spotify worth tens of millions of dollars. 0.79

01:29:34.080 Look at the house they live in in Montecito. 0.99

01:29:35.880 What the fuck have these people ever done? 0.99

01:29:38.500 She was on Suits. 1.00

01:29:39.980 He's a ginger weirdo that has a family that, you know, was just born into it. 1.00

01:29:44.520 And you're like, I can't believe it. 0.91

01:29:45.620 And then he has the gall all the time to say one thing that drives me absolutely crazy.

01:29:50.700 It drives me crazy.

01:29:51.700 And please, please, please, people make sure to never say the press hounded my mother to

01:29:56.860 death.

01:29:57.220 Your mother was killed by a drunk driver.

01:30:00.860 The driver of her car was heavily intoxicated and crashed with their press driving behind

01:30:06.800 him.

01:30:07.420 Yes, I'm sure there were.

01:30:08.660 That was the life, a terrible life when you marry into that family.

01:30:11.740 And I, you know, feel terrible for her and what she had to deal with.

01:30:15.100 But this kind of recasting of everything as just this oppression narrative of these two

01:30:20.680 people that have things handed to them, like it's not, she didn't get this stuff because

01:30:24.340 she was opening those suitcases on that show where she was being objectified. 1.00

01:30:27.920 Deal or no deal.

01:30:28.900 Yeah, deal or no deal.

01:30:29.960 It's like you have a $40 million house in Montecito because you opened the thing in like

01:30:34.640 a skimpy dress.

01:30:35.360 I don't think that happened.

01:30:36.240 She wanted this.

01:30:36.540 So where is all this money coming from?

01:30:38.400 So don't, you can't have it both ways.

01:30:40.420 Pick one.

01:30:41.040 And you have picked one.

01:30:42.120 Stop complaining.

01:30:42.800 Well, and now, and now tonight in New York, they are being honored by the Kennedy family.

01:30:50.440 This is one of RFK's other children, not RFK Jr., but Kerry Kennedy, is honoring them

01:30:55.720 for their anti-racist commitment, for all the anti-racism work that they've done.

01:31:02.720 Harry is literally, as far as I know, the only member of the royal family who's actually

01:31:06.720 worn a swastika on his arm as a fun Halloween costume.

01:31:10.940 Some were sympathetic back in their 30s.

01:31:13.040 Well, yeah, there could have been some years ago for calling somebody a slur, a racist

01:31:18.680 slur.

01:31:19.340 And what has Meghan Markle done?

01:31:20.480 She gave the Oprah interview.

01:31:21.760 That's literally what they're pointing to.

01:31:23.120 She gave the Oprah interview and said that thing about the unnamed royal member who allegedly

01:31:27.220 was concerned about that.

01:31:28.700 She said concerned.

01:31:29.940 But Tom Bauer came on the show and reported that there was no concern whatsoever.

01:31:33.020 It's just a natural discussion between about two people who are different races getting

01:31:37.220 married.

01:31:37.560 And what is our baby going to look like?

01:31:38.920 Right.

01:31:39.140 And somebody in the royal family being like, what do you think the baby's going to look like?

01:31:41.340 In any event, different accounts.

01:31:43.300 But for this, she's getting an anti-racism award.

01:31:47.300 This is her dream.

01:31:48.060 Again, back to Tom Bauer's book, Revenge.

01:31:50.360 If you read about her history, all she she desperate.

01:31:53.160 She got so mad at the UN because they wouldn't make her like an ambassador like the other

01:31:57.220 girl from Harry Potter.

01:31:58.080 Who's that?

01:31:58.500 What's the girl's name from Harry Potter?

01:31:59.880 Emily Watson.

01:32:02.800 Yeah, Emily.

01:32:03.560 Emily.

01:32:04.040 Yes.

01:32:04.660 Like her.

01:32:05.240 She wanted to be like her. 0.99

01:32:06.140 And they were like, you haven't done shit, Emma Watson. 0.99

01:32:08.260 They're like, you haven't done shit. 0.98

01:32:09.580 You're not getting the same award as Emma Watson. 0.96

01:32:11.740 You're not getting the same title.

01:32:13.140 This is what she's been working to all along.

01:32:14.660 She doesn't want to do the work. 1.00

01:32:15.580 She just wants to bathe herself in this woke glory.

01:32:19.080 And what has she actually done to fight racism?

01:32:21.720 I mean, honestly, she said she wasn't even conscious of the fact that she was half black until

01:32:25.980 she got married to Harry, nor was I.

01:32:30.700 I'm sorry to say I'm being honest.

01:32:33.360 I didn't when when I first saw it, I was like, oh, I thought I just thought she was Italian.

01:32:37.680 I mean, this is the absurdity of race at a certain point of dilution.

01:32:41.840 It's like, what?

01:32:42.560 What?

01:32:42.860 What do you?

01:32:43.320 I don't know.

01:32:43.900 I didn't know she was black. 1.00

01:32:44.740 I didn't know she was fighting it.

01:32:46.020 She's just a kind of B-list actress. 1.00

01:32:48.740 Sorry.

01:32:49.680 Yeah, that seems pretty apparent.

01:32:51.740 Her race is her race is most important to her.

01:32:54.280 It's indispensable to her.

01:32:55.980 It's very valuable.

01:32:57.280 It is.

01:32:57.520 It is a marketable commodity.

01:32:59.260 But for her race, she wouldn't have this Netflix special and all the money that goes 1.00

01:33:03.440 along with it and her Spotify deal, which, you know, good for her.

01:33:06.640 Make the most of what you've got.

01:33:08.500 Yeah, well, it certainly is.

01:33:09.840 And she's trying to destroy the royal family who made her all this money, who made her a 1.00

01:33:14.180 royal, who made her a household name in the process. 1.00

01:33:17.920 I mean, talk about an ingrate.

01:33:19.480 You guys, I am not an ingrate.

01:33:21.320 I am very grateful to all three of you.

01:33:22.980 Michael Moynihan, Matt Welsh, Camille Foster.

01:33:25.760 Thanks for rolling with the punches.

01:33:26.920 We went to weird places.

01:33:27.880 Thank you for having me.

01:33:29.060 Thank you for the weirdness, Megan.

01:33:30.620 We always we always do.

01:33:32.020 It's always fun.

01:33:32.800 Thank you.

01:33:33.260 I know.

01:33:33.900 Exactly.

01:33:34.440 All right.

01:33:34.620 See you again soon.

01:33:35.240 I hope.

01:33:35.900 All right.

01:33:36.640 Tomorrow, two of our favorites, Jesse Kelly and Buck Sexton, will be here.

01:33:40.740 Looking forward to that.

01:33:41.440 In the meantime, download the show.

01:33:43.320 Go to YouTube dot com slash Megan Kelly.

01:33:44.960 If you'd like to get it visually and thanks for being with us.

01:33:48.560 We'll talk again tomorrow.

01:33:51.580 Thanks for listening to the Megan Kelly show.

01:33:53.760 No BS, no agenda and no fear.

The Megyn Kelly Show - December 06, 2022

Censorship as Virtue Signaling, and False Meghan and Harry Claims, with the Fifth Column Hosts ｜ Ep. 448

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