Charlie Sheen is an American actor and an icon. His life has been a wild ride. Born to father Martin Sheen, what do you care if your brother ditches school? He achieved success seemingly overnight and went on to star in films like Platoon, Wall Street, and The Rookie. But all of that came with its own set of challenges. And Charlie Sheen is here to tell his story.
00:05:46.040It seems like, you know, the addiction, I said to myself, who is Charlie Sheen?
00:05:51.820Like, what do I think of when I think of Charlie Sheen?
00:05:54.160Yes, icon, huge star, addict, of course, is one of the words, but truly also a genius.
00:06:01.160And those things are not unusually paired.
00:06:03.420It's not unusual to see those things together.
00:06:05.240But it seems like there was a feeling of inadequacy in, let's say, Carlos Estevez versus Charlie Sheen, the icon movie star that we know now.
00:06:17.420And my question in watching the film and reading the book was, where did that come from?
00:06:22.140And I'll just give you my own pitch on it.
00:06:24.200You tell me whether I have anything like the truth here.
00:06:29.860You then had a very famous brother, both of whom went before you and became famous in your brother's case or were famous in your dad's when you were, you know, not.
00:06:42.460And I think it probably had a profound effect on you being around that level of wealth and attention directed at people around you but not at you that maybe planted some seeds that weren't potentially healthy for you in the long haul.
00:06:59.860I think your theory is more than just a theory.
00:07:04.400I think you've tapped into some very solid truths about what motivated me or at least what drove me like it did.
00:07:21.360Because, you know, for so long I was Martin Sheen's son.
00:07:27.520And then you add to that, and, you know, Emilio Estevez's brother.
00:07:33.340And it just, it got to the point where, and then, you know, growing up on dad's sets and then going out with Emilio and his crew of newly famed-minted actors that he was making all his movies with.
00:07:50.880And just seeing the type of energy and the type of fun and mischief that they all had such limitless access to that I just, I wanted a taste of it so badly.
00:08:08.320And it was, it felt so close, yet at the same time it was, it was light years out of reach, you know?
00:08:16.920Yeah, because just because you have fame in the family doesn't mean it's going to happen for you.
00:08:21.000And so even trying for it was pretty bold on your part.
00:08:25.600But your story is not one of somebody who knew he had to be an actor.
00:08:37.800Yeah, no, it, I got, I got a little bit of a warm-up.
00:08:41.440I'd done, I'd done a couple films and that nobody really cared about.
00:08:46.120I was just trying to, trying to get a SAG card, just trying to be a consistently employed actor and, and, and, and just, you know, kind of go from one job to the next and hopefully leave some good work behind.
00:08:57.080And, and then just, you know, when, when, when, I guess stuff happens when it's supposed to, or, or at times how it's supposed to.
00:09:07.020And, you know, this, this, this cameo just, just falls out of the sky into, into my lap.
00:09:14.360And, and that was the film Ferris Bueller's Day Off.
00:09:18.440What do you care if your brother ditches school?
00:09:22.140Why should he get to ditch when everybody else has to go?
00:09:26.680Gosh, I'm only on film, like, probably less than three minutes.
00:09:30.720And even having done a couple of lead roles in forgettable films before that, and then that thing hits.
00:09:38.260And it's that thing I talk about in the book where the day before in the grocery store, the girls thought I worked there, you know, and then Bueller hits and I'm no longer wearing that imaginary Vons vest, you know?
00:10:01.100And you, you nonetheless showed up late.
00:10:03.800You tried to stay up all night so you could look weathered and tired like your character and got a little too method, overslept the alarm, show up an hour and a half late.
00:10:12.620Jennifer Grey's like, what the hell, man?
00:10:14.220But it was a very interesting story you tell.
00:10:17.180You're very insightful about how John Hughes, you saw him and you expected he was just going to throw you out of there and you got something different.
00:10:25.360I thought he would continue the drubbing that she had initiated.
00:10:30.420But with him, it came to a Flintstones halt.
00:10:35.120And he just, like I say in the doc and in the book, when he just took one look at me and he literally just said, oh, good, you're here.
00:10:46.260And just what that did for just calming my nerves and my confidence and just knowing that I was, you know, in the presence of a man that didn't care about anything that led up to the, you know, the moment that he needed to, you know, get his director brain around, you know?
00:11:07.500So, and then it's pretty cool in the movie.
00:11:46.440And I think like that would come back to help you many times, your movie star appeal, your, your good looks, your charm.
00:11:52.960And, but it wasn't always a force for good.
00:11:55.640Like this, these things that would get you a pass from people like John Hughes that happened to you repeatedly in your life sound good on paper, but like maybe weren't because gave you a feeling of invincibility, like you could get away with anything.
00:12:10.960And maybe that wasn't such a great thing for the other piece of Charlie Sheen, which is the addict piece.
00:12:17.160Yeah, no, certainly was not a great thing.
00:12:22.020Obviously it's nice to be given second chances and all that good stuff.
00:12:24.960But, and, and, and we touch on this in the doc a little bit.
00:12:29.280What was interesting that, that even after not, not, not the biggest disasters or, or, or, or, you know, the, the, the, the furthest falls, but there was, there, there, there, there was a pattern of, you know, fucking things up, sending shit off the rails.
00:12:52.180And then, and then, and then having a job literally on the other side of that event.
00:12:58.080Once I had, you know, once I dusted myself off and, and, and, and, you know, got, got back ready to work.
00:13:05.920Um, so yeah, so, but you know, I, I, I, I think there's two sides to that, that, that, that, that, that didn't mean I had to take those jobs, but, but it, but it also didn't mean that, that they always had to be there.
00:19:36.380Your dad's name isn't really Martin, isn't very Spanish.
00:19:39.260Do you connect at all with that piece of your lineage?
00:19:43.140Um, just through stories and just through relatives and just, um, I don't, I don't, I don't go on the pilgrimages like my brother Ramon does and Emilio and dad.
00:19:52.400Um, I guess I, um, I guess I lean more into the, into the Irish side of, of, of, of our, of our roots, you know?
00:21:02.800We didn't know what we were, what we were, what, what we'd created.
00:21:05.500You know, we, we, we, we thought the vets would appreciate it.
00:21:08.240We thought, you know, we thought other filmmakers would think we'd, we'd given a, you know, taken a pretty good, pretty good shot at it.
00:21:14.600But, um, no, it, we did not expect that the, the, the entire world was going to join in the celebration.
00:21:21.040You know, it was, it was, it was, it was a pretty exciting time.
00:21:24.400The first real movie about the war in Vietnam is platoon.
00:21:28.500Then you get the kind of fame that's like you walk into a football stadium and everybody knows you, you, not to mention you could sleep with any woman in there, which, you know, like that's very heady, hugely heady.
00:21:42.840And at the same time, you're hanging out with all these big stars.
00:21:45.500Like, I didn't know anything about your long friendship with Nick Cage.
00:21:52.440It's, and I, and I, and I think what's in the doc with, with Nicholas and myself and, and, and what's in the book.
00:21:58.260I think there's some really cool, really just memorable, you know, unforgettable stuff between us.
00:22:05.020You know, it's not all in there and that's just, hey, there we are.
00:22:08.920And that's out of respect to him and myself.
00:22:11.400And, you know, there's, there's some stuff that it's just probably better that it just, it stays between the people and exists only in that moment in time.
00:22:18.680But I, but I think there is enough there to, to, to just give a taste, just give a vibe of, of, of the kind of, that the energy that, that we were both, you know, that, that it was weird.
00:22:31.560We, we, it's like, we found each other right when we needed to.
00:22:35.100And, and, and it wasn't a competition thing, but, but we just, I think I talk about something in the book that, you know, something about, we were both on the verge of, of, of complete fission.
00:22:50.220And, and, and I brought the missing neutrons, you know, stuff like that.
00:22:55.820I just spoke with Nicholas about an hour ago today.
00:22:59.420And this dude at 901 in LA, knowing it was past midnight, East Coast, downloaded my audio book and listened to it, like started it last night and finished it today.
00:23:17.500And, and, and wrote to me, wrote this, this beautiful, uh, the penning of, of just love and support.
00:23:26.020And, and he was just such passion and excitement.
00:23:29.240And I, I just, I, I called him and, and it was really, that was just like an hour ago, you know, um, because we didn't care about people.
00:23:49.760It was such a, just a loving, I don't want to call it an endorsement.
00:23:53.340It was, it was, it was a, uh, it was just the kind of support that, that I, I, I, I would have hoped for, but when you get it for real, you know, especially from him, uh, it was, it was pretty special.
00:24:06.300And I hope he doesn't mind that I'm, I'm sharing this with the world, you know?
00:24:09.760Now, I have to imagine you've gotten a phone call from literally every gay man who's ever met you and has your number saying, I see a window.
00:24:51.300So you're saying there's a chance that for the listening audience, Charlie reveals in the book that he, while on drugs, had a couple of interludes crossing over to the other side, is not declaring that he's gay or bi or anything else, but is just being honest about his life, intoxicated and high.
00:25:09.740And that's why I say some, some will see a window.
00:25:15.080It's, uh, it's, it's, it's, it's one moment in a very long life.
00:25:18.840And, and I said something the other day that, um, that I guess I just wanted to have just a little bit more in common with, uh, with, with Richard Pryor and Marlon Brando and Mick Jagger.
00:25:54.300And to always, anytime the phone rings or you see an email from a lawyer or just, or a manager that always talks to that lawyer.
00:26:01.040And it's just, it just got to the point of this, you know, if, if, if this is prison, the only thing that's missing, it's the bars and the guards, you know?
00:26:13.760And, and, and, and, you know, I was talking to Emilio and, and, and he said, he said, are you, are you, are you cool that like all this stuff is, you know, is, is out there and like that.
00:26:23.800And I said, well, you know, I got to be honest, man, it's, it feels a lot better, you know, out there than it did in here for so long.
00:26:33.900And so, and, and the other thing is like, don't put something in a book and in a doc that come out, you know, a day apart, unless you're going to be willing enough, courageous enough, open enough to discuss those things, you know?
00:27:00.560And then the, one of the producers came up and said, wow, that was, that was so courageous.
00:27:05.060And you just, you didn't, you didn't dodge it.
00:27:07.060And then I said, well, yeah, I already wrote about it and spoke about it and put it in.
00:27:10.500And she said, oh, no, no, you'd, you'd be amazed how many people put stuff in a book.
00:27:15.680And then when it comes to, it comes time to, to, to, you know, promote it or discuss it or whatever, they, they completely lose their minds.
00:27:23.100They, they, they, they just want to run and hide.
00:27:25.400Because I guess they never, or they didn't see the connection between like, okay, it goes here and then, you know, and then does that.
00:27:34.040You're, it's still, you know, it's, you're responsible for all of it.
00:27:38.600And so, but she was, but she was annoying publicist who says, don't ask about this.
00:27:45.120Meanwhile, the principal is fine asking about it.
00:27:48.180So oftentimes it's a function of that.
00:27:50.440Having worked on the Today Show, I know that the PR people can be absolutely awful and not really carry this guy's message.
00:27:56.600And you not to ask something like, like, like you've just read it in the book and then you, you want to tell them, but it's here.
00:28:12.940I mean, that, that was actually one of the questions I had for you was not about a PR person, but I was on Fox News in 2011 when you had the two and a half men cancellation.
00:28:21.880And the winning and like the super torqued up Charlie with all the testosterone you write about, like, it was something like 4,000, which is, I don't know what number is supposed to be normal, but it's like two digits, not three and not four.
00:30:13.560And that's the part I can't really explain.
00:30:15.360When I look back on that stuff, it's like, dude, like, okay, maybe after that interview, you issue a statement or you just like go, just disappear somewhere for a month.
00:30:25.780There's just, but to keep that thing going was just like, that's the part, just the energy that required.
00:30:31.580I don't have that kind of stamina anymore.
00:30:33.800But as far as the people that, I guess you could say were more complicit than not, it does take two to tango.
00:30:43.500And I say in the book that in this case, it felt like, it felt more like 2000, but, but I also specifically write a line about in the years since I've, I've, I've combed through the mental health manual and I still can't find vile exploitation as a treatment protocol.
00:31:06.240So that is, that is a quote from the book.
00:31:09.400So yeah, I am going to, I'm going to point some of that stuff out.
00:31:12.720And then when I talk about Mark Berg and Mark and I are, are, are, are great friends these days, but I, but I do say Mark was the gatekeeper.
00:31:20.220Um, and, and, and I, and I wish he would have had a, um, um, uh, uh, a better key or, or a stronger lock, um, or, or something that, that, or, or a lock that looked more like, um, um, um, uh, a comfy chair and a, and a, and a, and a willing ear.
00:31:40.020You know, it's like, I, I just think there could have been a moment in the middle of all that when coming, someone could have just said, all right, we're going to, you know, the party would put, you know, we're putting the, putting the chairs on the table, putting the lights on, the party's over.
00:31:55.000And just, and, and it, it could have, it, it could have been, could have been interrupted, you know?
00:32:03.380Um, but then suddenly there's this idea for a tour, you know?
00:32:08.040And I, and I'm like, what would that even, what does that mean?
00:32:11.040I'm not a, did I, did I start a band I can't remember forming?
00:32:15.280Is there some part of me, like, what are we, because touring for me is all, it could only be a musician or like a really popular comedian, right?
00:32:23.020And there was nothing funny about my act at that point, right?
00:32:26.340But, but yeah, and then Live Nation gets involved and I go visit them and suddenly, you know, I'm holding a machete to a cheering crowd and they're booking dates, you know?
00:32:37.780Which is why in the book, the only thing that I describe on that tour is that, is that, I don't want to give it away, but is that incident that takes place in the bathroom, you know?
00:32:51.240And I think just symbolically that, um, that's, that's really how I felt about, about that, that, that whole, that whole shit storm, you know?
00:33:02.200I watched it and I just thought, I watched it when it happened as a newswoman and I was horrified at how you were being exploited.
00:33:15.040I did not interview Kanye when he was going on in his recent media tour, because I could see the guy was in the middle of what appeared to be a bipolar episode.
00:33:23.520I did not pile on when that mayor up in Canada was going through it.
00:33:27.380Like, I just don't like it when news people, I think news people too have a responsibility not to have you on when you're in that state and pretend that you're okay or that this is an okay interview to be doing.
00:33:39.740Because this is a compromised person who needs help not to be exploited for clicks.
00:33:44.660It's very fucking annoying as a news person to watch.
00:33:48.780Yeah, no, and that's, that's, that's, that's great to hear.
00:33:52.080Um, at least there's, there's, there's one of you that cares.
00:34:35.420So she gets just yanked into this thing, you know, and, and, and then, um, I, I, yeah, she, she was like just front and center for that thing.
00:34:48.680You know, she was like putting on the seatbelt to do that interview.
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00:45:06.660But, um, I think there's things that he, he can do that Emilio and I can't, stuff Emilio can do that pop and I can't, and then finish that triad with the other two that can't.
00:46:00.720No, it was, it was, it was, it was an incredible experience.
00:46:03.840Um, I, you know, little, little pieces of regret throughout that, um, that I could have been more present, that I could have been just more, more dialed in, more professional.
00:46:15.580I think what's, what's, I think covered nicely in the book is that, you know, Platoon is still burning down the box office when, when we start Wall Street.
00:46:24.960And so there was like a lot of distraction.
00:46:30.620And, and I think that I mentioned something about, um, just wanting to be, um, you know, uh, uh, uh, playfully, uh, drunk on a fancy boat in tropical waters with beautiful women, you know, not like working again, stuff like that.
00:46:47.880So there was a lot of distractions, um, doing that.
00:46:52.680Um, so some of the stuff with dad, that, that, and, and he was well aware of it.
00:46:58.040And so he, he, he was, um, I think just hoping for a more focused me.
00:47:03.560And that's why I talk about doing my best to not vanish on screen next to him, but talent wise, but also just, you know, um, where, where, where, where my head was at, you know?
00:51:42.880Please know how important you are in our culture and as a figure who kids look up to and people admire and want to continue applauding and cheering for for decades to come.
00:51:55.420And I really hope you know we're all rooting for you and just want nothing but good things for you.
00:52:46.440That's not, that's not on, that's not up to me.
00:52:49.380But, yeah, to get through that, you know, several times and then continue to thumb your nose at the universe, I think at that point you're asking for it, you know?
00:53:05.820And it's interesting because you do talk about that Matthew, you know, was still struggling a little bit when he had to go on the tour and promote the book and do all that stuff.
00:53:16.000But I could see it, and I know a lot of other people could too, and I could also hear it when I listened to the book.
00:53:21.800I could hear just because, for a guy that just had such precision with his diction and his delivery and his timing and just everything.
00:53:30.860And it just, it was just, just left of center.
00:53:34.900And you just felt like, and I read his book.
00:53:38.040I read it in a day because I've just got so deep into it and nothing else mattered.
00:53:42.760And I wasn't stopping until I finished.
00:53:44.740And, and I, I, I so wanted to reach out to him and I didn't.
00:53:50.020And he, he, he died a month later and it was just, you know, so, yeah, I don't want to, I don't want to do that to my, to my kids.
00:53:59.740I don't want to do that to my, the rest of my family.
00:54:02.300Um, and yeah, it, um, if you, if you get a second, third, fourth, fifth chance, you know, wrap your arms around it and just, you know, just consider it a, a fricking lotto win every day.
00:54:18.720Well, maybe there's a good, a better chance this time, because I'll tell you, um, I I'm a little younger than you are, but not by that much.
00:54:26.280And I've referred to this as my fuck at fifties.
00:54:29.540So you really don't, you don't care what people think of you.
00:54:32.640You really change in your fifties for the better.
00:54:34.680It's one delightful thing about getting older.
00:54:36.760And I think more so when you're in your sixties.
00:54:40.160So I feel like you've got all that ahead of you.
00:55:04.760I think that that might be a healthy choice.
00:55:06.400I leave it up to you, but whatever you choose, I really hope it fulfills you like from, from the inside and that you have like a, maybe not a fucking fifties, but like a, a spectacular sixties and beyond.