The Megyn Kelly Show - Clay Travis on American Sports and China, Hunter Biden, and Dealing with Bullies

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00:00:30.580 Welcome to The Megyn Kelly Show, your home for open, honest, and provocative conversations.

00:00:41.900 Hey everyone, I'm Megyn Kelly. Welcome to The Megyn Kelly Show.

00:00:45.280 Today we've got Clay Travis.

00:00:48.300 You may know him as the founder of Outkick.com, which is, I think, sort of the anti-ESPN, we could say.

00:00:54.860 It's the non-woke place for sports, which means most of the country loves him, because most of the country is not woke.

00:01:02.920 And ESPN has been sneaking its wokeness into virtually every aspect of its coverage, and we'll get into exactly how that happened when Clay joins us.

00:01:11.200 He's very smart.

00:01:13.800 I first met him because I went on his podcast, Winners and Losers.

00:01:17.620 Oh, there's a winner.

00:01:20.720 I think.

00:01:22.300 Anyway, we had a great talk, and I'm not really a sports person, as you know, but I love the way he talks about sports because he makes it sort of wider access, and even I can understand it.

00:01:31.300 We get into the latest crazy 60 Minutes response as this controversy gets even worse for them now.

00:01:36.660 The Palm Beach Democratic mayor is killing them, and the Democratic mayor, I say, and they're sticking to their stupid story on Ron DeSantis.

00:01:45.840 We're going to get into that.

00:01:46.760 We're going to get into Hunter Biden's media tour and the love fest that we're seeing and the hard news and soft news alike for him, and the biggest sports story of today that no one is covering and why.

00:01:58.700 So we'll do that with Clay in just one minute, but first, this.

00:02:06.660 It seems like things are going well with the podcast.

00:02:10.060 They are.

00:02:10.820 I'm relieved to say it's working, and therefore, my stint in my children's playroom will continue.

00:02:17.460 Yes.

00:02:18.120 I'm living the dream right now.

00:02:19.720 Yeah.

00:02:20.040 I mean, I've got a home television radio.

00:02:21.860 I mean, I've got everything in my house, so my wife complains that I never leave, but, you know, I've just kind of got the ability to do everything.

00:02:28.600 It's true.

00:02:29.520 Between COVID and working from home, you really do find out whether you're truly in love with your spouse.

00:02:35.160 Yes.

00:02:35.460 And I don't think my wife loves me.

00:02:37.200 So other than that, everything's great.

00:02:38.900 Right.

00:02:39.300 It's just glory.

00:02:40.960 Let's start on 60 Minutes and Governor DeSantis, because I've been noticing you tweet about this story, and I know you think these guys owe an apology to Ron DeSantis.

00:02:50.640 They're going a different way instead of rescinding this story.

00:02:54.260 And just to get the audience up to speed, 60 Minutes offered this report on DeSantis suggesting that he was guilty of a pay-for-play type scheme with Publix, the big grocery store down there, saying, here's a direct quote from the report.

00:03:11.200 Why did Governor DeSantis choose Publix to, you know, help roll out the vaccines?

00:03:17.120 Well, they say Publix donated $100,000 to DeSantis weeks before he let them distribute the vaccine.

00:03:23.980 So it's a clear hit on him, right?

00:03:25.720 Like they paid $100,000 to him, and suddenly Publix was the chosen one.

00:03:29.840 And then the report goes on to quote a guy in the piece saying, well, that hurt minorities because Publix wasn't in the right neighborhoods to help them.

00:03:39.160 And basically, it was a long hit piece on him.

00:03:41.380 Well, now everybody from Poynter, I mean, Poynter used to be this sort of objective news watchdog that would call out bias on both sides.

00:03:51.220 Now it's a complete left-wing mouthpiece.

00:03:53.380 They've called that 60 Minutes, PolitiFact, I can say the same stuff about them.

00:03:56.760 But they've called out 60 Minutes, Democrat politicians, Democratic politicians in Florida.

00:04:01.660 They're calling out 60 Minutes saying, this is a lie.

00:04:04.540 You've misled.

00:04:05.400 It wasn't pay to play.

00:04:06.460 There's a very good reason why it rolled out the way it did.

00:04:09.180 And DeSantis tried to explain it to 60 Minutes reporters himself at a press conference.

00:04:15.360 And 60 Minutes deceptively edited the soundbite.

00:04:19.700 I'm just a long wind up to get you to comment on this, but I just want people to understand because it's a little confusing.

00:04:23.940 So just before we get into the meat of it, Clay, let's just play the 60 Minutes exchange, the misleading exchange first, and then we'll get to DeSantis' explanation that was cut.

00:04:37.720 Publix, as you know, donated $100,000 to your campaign, and then you rewarded them with the exclusive rights to distribute the vaccination in Palm Beach.

00:04:47.160 So first of all, what you're saying is wrong.

00:04:48.660 How is that not pay to play?

00:04:49.820 I think that's a fake narrative.

00:04:51.400 I met with the county mayor.

00:04:52.640 I met with the administrator.

00:04:53.780 I met with all the folks at Palm Beach County.

00:04:55.400 And I said, here's some of the options.

00:04:57.840 We can do more drive-through sites.

00:04:59.460 We can give more to hospitals.

00:05:00.860 We can do the Publix.

00:05:02.480 And they said, we think that would be the easiest thing for our residents.

00:05:05.780 Okay.

00:05:06.020 And then here's the next one where this is the longer actual exchange between the two of them.

00:05:11.040 That was on camera, because this is at a press conference, which apparently 60 Minutes forgot here.

00:05:16.680 As we got into January, we wanted to expand the distribution points.

00:05:21.080 So, yes, you had the counties.

00:05:22.560 You had some drive-through sites.

00:05:24.080 You had hospitals that were doing a lot.

00:05:26.020 But we wanted to get it into communities more.

00:05:28.220 So we reached out to other retail pharmacies, Publix, Walmart.

00:05:32.420 Obviously, CVS and Walgreens had to finish that mission.

00:05:34.980 And we said, we're going to use you as soon as you're done with that.

00:05:38.140 For the Publix, they were the first one to raise their hand and say they were ready to go.

00:05:42.240 And you know what?

00:05:42.920 We did it on a trial basis.

00:05:44.720 I had three counties.

00:05:46.100 I actually showed up that weekend and talked to seniors across four different Publix.

00:05:50.800 How was the experience?

00:05:51.960 Is this good?

00:05:52.680 Should you think this is the way to go?

00:05:54.260 And it was 100% positive.

00:05:56.320 So we expanded it.

00:05:57.940 And then folks liked it.

00:05:59.140 And I can tell you, if you look at a place like Palm Beach County,

00:06:02.320 they were kind of struggling at first in terms of the senior numbers.

00:06:06.660 I went.

00:06:07.400 I met with the county mayor.

00:06:08.580 I met with the administrator.

00:06:09.480 I met with all the folks at Palm Beach County.

00:06:11.380 And I said, here's some of the options.

00:06:13.660 We can do more drive-through sites.

00:06:15.440 We can give more to hospitals.

00:06:16.860 We can do the Publix.

00:06:18.200 We can do this.

00:06:19.400 They calculated that 90% of their seniors live within a mile and a half of a Publix.

00:06:24.240 And they said, we think that would be the easiest thing for our residents.

00:06:28.480 It's crazy, Clay.

00:06:29.620 And now 60 Minutes is saying, well, you know,

00:06:33.620 our report was really about the racial disparities of the vaccine distribution.

00:06:36.800 And we stand by it 100%.

00:06:38.540 This is, I think, and you, let me take a step back.

00:06:42.840 I think sometimes you need to be able to see both sides of the media equation

00:06:47.920 to really understand what's going on right now.

00:06:50.960 And I know you have seen both sides because we're in the media.

00:06:54.520 And what I have done now, and I would say this to anybody out there that's ever being

00:07:00.260 written about or talked about at all, I won't do an interview unless I am recording the entire

00:07:06.640 thing on my end as well.

00:07:08.580 And I almost feel like that's where we all have to be because selective editing of stories,

00:07:16.660 the narrative that wants to be told, you know how a story like that works.

00:07:20.400 They've decided what their story is, and they want to get a quote from Ron DeSantis to allow

00:07:26.420 them to say, well, we asked him for a comment, and this is what the comment was.

00:07:31.480 But then they go in and they take small segments of the answer to justify what they believed the

00:07:37.580 story already was.

00:07:39.080 In other words, they already know what the story is by the time they talk to the person.

00:07:44.060 The Washington Post recently did a few thousand words where they ripped me.

00:07:49.140 And I don't remember the exact number, but I think there were 2,500 words they wrote about

00:07:53.800 me.

00:07:54.040 I talked to them for an hour, and I think they used something like 100 words that I gave

00:07:58.800 them in the 2,300-word piece.

00:08:01.040 Well, what was the point of me talking to you for an hour?

00:08:03.320 And by the way, they misquoted me in that they pulled partial answers out of full answers.

00:08:09.060 And it's just fundamentally artificial.

00:08:12.180 And I think we have the technology.

00:08:13.820 I suspect much of it has always been that way.

00:08:16.380 But I think now we have the technology and the ability to see the inartificiality or the

00:08:23.920 artificiality and the inauthentic nature by which these stories are created.

00:08:28.160 This was a hit piece.

00:08:28.940 Somebody pitched to 60 Minutes, Ron DeSantis, who I think, Megan, I don't know if you've started

00:08:34.340 to look at it, but I think in 2024, one of the big stories is going to be how did America

00:08:40.520 respond to COVID?

00:08:41.600 And I think we're going to spend the next few years unpacking how we responded.

00:08:46.000 And I think there is great nervousness that Ron DeSantis, on the part of Democrats, that

00:08:51.380 Ron DeSantis is going to have the best resume of any governor in America when it comes to

00:08:56.200 how did you respond to COVID?

00:08:57.900 The death rate is nearly identical in California.

00:09:00.420 Every student in Florida has stayed in school, in person, gone to school.

00:09:06.020 The state unemployment rate is half of what it is in California.

00:09:09.940 Gavin Newsom and Andrew Cuomo were initially lionized for their response.

00:09:14.940 And if you look at big state governors, Greg Abbott and Ron DeSantis, Texas and Florida

00:09:19.260 have done much better.

00:09:20.660 And so I really think this is a calculated attempt to tear down Ron DeSantis and create uncertainty

00:09:26.420 about his management of the state of Florida, because he argued early on lockdowns aren't

00:09:32.200 going to work.

00:09:32.800 We have to continue with normal life.

00:09:34.700 And I think he's been validated by all of the data and all the numbers.

00:09:37.900 And I think that is threatening to so many people who screamed, listen to the experts.

00:09:43.200 He's listened to the right experts.

00:09:45.240 And I think the result has been that his people in his state have done better than anybody else

00:09:49.700 in any big state in the country.

00:09:51.580 Mm hmm.

00:09:52.160 Oh, you just hit the nail right on the head.

00:09:53.760 I totally agree with what you just said.

00:09:55.760 And so now 60 minutes, they're interested in him, in tearing him down.

00:10:00.940 Let's make him look corrupt.

00:10:02.500 Let's make it look like because Publix donated 100,000 bucks to him a few weeks before this,

00:10:07.800 he gave them the right to distribute the vaccine, which is lucrative for the distributors.

00:10:12.340 They get paid like 40 bucks a shot from the feds.

00:10:14.900 And he walked the reporter right through the truth.

00:10:18.940 He said, no, Walgreens had it.

00:10:20.580 CVS had it.

00:10:21.320 We decided to test Publix because it's so ubiquitous.

00:10:24.380 See if it would work.

00:10:25.580 See if it would get to the seniors.

00:10:27.120 I went to local officials in all the biggest counties and said, what do you think?

00:10:31.160 Here are the many options.

00:10:32.340 It's not just Publix I'm giving you to choose.

00:10:33.780 You tell me what's going to work for you.

00:10:35.320 And the local officials said to me, Publix makes sense.

00:10:38.560 And their vaccination rates are super high because it did make sense.

00:10:42.460 And so he walked them through.

00:10:44.000 And then the local Democratic officials have come forward to say, that's exactly right.

00:10:48.220 And they called out 60 Minutes for the falsehood.

00:10:51.440 I think I still have it on my phone back.

00:10:52.940 I mean, to me, it's a huge story.

00:10:54.240 By the way, New York Times hasn't covered it.

00:10:56.740 Washington Post hasn't covered it.

00:10:58.380 One of my guys made a 60 Minutes of Lies t-shirt with the OutKick logo on it.

00:11:04.680 And Ron DeSantis tweeted out that he had bought them.

00:11:07.180 And he actually did.

00:11:08.220 And so if he wears one, which I hope he does, I mean, he's smart about the way that social media will play.

00:11:14.040 But I'm reading directly.

00:11:15.200 This is the statement, by the way, Megan, from Mayor Dave Kerner on Sunday night's 60 Minutes segment on vaccines in Florida.

00:11:23.240 I believe he's Palm Beach County's mayor.

00:11:25.380 Oh, yeah.

00:11:25.980 He's a very well-known Democratic mayor.

00:11:28.380 Yeah.

00:11:29.060 And so he wrote, I will read the whole thing if you want to hear it because I do think it's interesting.

00:11:32.580 It's relatively short.

00:11:33.640 I watched the 60 Minutes segment on Palm Beach County last night and feel compelled to issue this statement.

00:11:39.640 The reporting was not just based on bad information.

00:11:42.680 It was intentionally false.

00:11:44.800 I know this because I offered to provide my insight into Palm Beach County's vaccination efforts and 60 Minutes declined.

00:11:51.740 They know that the governor came to Palm Beach County and met with me and the county administrator.

00:11:56.420 And in his words, in italics, we asked to expand the state's partnership with Publix to Palm Beach County.

00:12:04.320 We also discussed our own local plans to expand mass vaccination centers throughout the county, which the governor has been incredibly supportive.

00:12:11.860 We asked and he delivered.

00:12:13.880 They had that information and they left it out because it kneecaps their narrative.

00:12:17.940 We have confronted this pandemic for over a year.

00:12:20.320 Our residents, like all Americans, are tired and the media is making it worse.

00:12:24.580 They are hell-bent on dividing us for cheap views and clicks.

00:12:28.300 60 Minutes should be ashamed.

00:12:29.700 I thank the governor for supporting the residents of Palm Beach County because of his efforts working in coordination with Palm Beach County officials.

00:12:37.840 Over 275,000 seniors in our county, which is over 75% of the total senior population, have been vaccinated.

00:12:45.740 I am proud of how our county and state leadership have executed on this important mission and the results speak for themselves.

00:12:53.400 Again, that's Dave Kernan, county mayor of Palm Beach, Palm Beach County, Democrat, calling out the report 60 Minutes ran on Florida and Governor Ron DeSantis.

00:13:03.720 Wow.

00:13:04.360 Wow.

00:13:05.100 If this had happened the opposite way.

00:13:08.160 Oh, yeah.

00:13:08.820 Let's say it was Fox News doing a hit piece that was totally unfounded on a Democrat.

00:13:14.080 Oh, yeah.

00:13:14.340 Can you imagine?

00:13:15.380 And Republican local leaders came forward to say Fox had it wrong.

00:13:18.840 Fox is misleading.

00:13:19.840 Can you imagine the amount of play this would be getting on CNN and MSNBC and see all of them, all of them would be covering this wall to wall?

00:13:27.000 It's a huge yawn.

00:13:28.300 No one in the mainstream media cares about 60 Minutes being as humiliated here or close to it as with the Dan Rather reporting.

00:13:38.700 They lied.

00:13:39.160 Yeah, that's immediately what I thought of, Megan.

00:13:40.980 Yes.

00:13:41.540 What's scary about this, Megan, to me is, and this also ties in with Hunter Biden and the laptop and everything else.

00:13:47.660 We have created a system, and this is my big picture issue, and I know we've kind of texted about this, I think, before.

00:13:53.900 We have allowed big tech media in many ways to create our own Chinese wall in America, right, where China can decide, hey, the government can.

00:14:04.740 Our people are going to see X, but they're not going to see Y, and it creates a broken system, right?

00:14:11.920 They have the Chinese wall effectively up.

00:14:14.280 They only allow the internet to be distributed, the stories that they really want to see, and they block other things.

00:14:20.060 Big tech is doing that, Megan.

00:14:21.820 And so, like, you and I are talking about this, and probably a lot of your listeners and my listeners who end up listening to this will know, oh, that Ron DeSantis 60 Minutes story was totally fake.

00:14:32.100 But that story goes out and gets watched by 10 or 12 million people on CBS.

00:14:36.820 What percentage of those people ever become aware that that is a story founded on lies?

00:14:42.940 A huge percentage of people never do, and then that colors their interpretations of Florida and of Ron DeSantis.

00:14:49.380 And that, to me, is what is so terrifying.

00:14:53.640 We are allowing the restriction of the truth from a large segment of the population because we're on such islands of media differential consumption.

00:15:06.020 It is.

00:15:06.740 I do think it's going to change.

00:15:08.040 You know, you saw that Justice Thomas concurrence in a Supreme Court case the other day saying he was like, this can't go on.

00:15:13.860 You know, that they really have become these big tech giants like a public utility, like a telephone line, like a railroad.

00:15:21.420 And you can't, you know, in the same way AT&T doesn't end your conversation if they hear you talking about, did Biden really win?

00:15:28.000 That doesn't happen.

00:15:29.900 His point is, you know, we can't have it such that Amazon or Twitter or Facebook can cut off the conversation just because they hear something they decide in their infinite wisdom to deem non-factual.

00:15:41.780 And was saying Congress needs to pass a law.

00:15:44.380 Now, this Congress, they're not going to pass such a law, but it's looking pretty good at this point for the Republicans in 2022.

00:15:50.460 And I do think this is going to be a big issue.

00:15:52.540 But wait, I want to just back up and say one thing.

00:15:54.740 On the 60-minute suggestion that the vaccine was distributed in a racially disparate way down in Florida, you know what?

00:16:03.020 There are also racial disparities in the distribution of the vaccine in New York, in Pennsylvania, in Connecticut, in Maryland.

00:16:08.460 Where are those reports, 60?

00:16:09.520 Why was 60 so late to the problems that Andrew Cuomo had in New York State?

00:16:13.880 Janice Dean was jumping up about this, up and down, like, why?

00:16:17.440 Why aren't you reporting on this?

00:16:18.520 They finally got around to doing this milquetoast piece on it.

00:16:22.080 And Janice is too nice to say this publicly, but I'm going to say it.

00:16:25.940 Nora O'Donnell privately DMed her, like, we did cover it, Janice.

00:16:29.760 And Janice is like, like nine months into the controversy, right?

00:16:34.560 And she kept trying to get Janice to stand down on the attacks against 60, but she wouldn't because she's like a dog with a bone.

00:16:40.440 As you know, Clay, this is not the first time 60 has humiliated itself.

00:16:44.120 Just a couple of months ago, right before the election, Trump did an interview with Leslie Stahl.

00:16:48.940 Yes.

00:16:49.340 And to your point, he tape recorded it on his own.

00:16:53.960 And they were rip shit mad when they found out.

00:16:56.300 And he released it in advance because he saw the teases that they were offering.

00:17:01.240 And he didn't like, actually, no, it was because he didn't like the way it went.

00:17:05.220 And Leslie Stahl got embarrassed on those tapes because, to the point about Hunter and the crackdown by Facebook, by Twitter,

00:17:14.920 on the New York Post reporting on Hunter Biden and his laptop, and the criminality alleged thereon,

00:17:20.540 she dismissed it out of hand.

00:17:22.540 She was like, it's not a story.

00:17:23.960 And he was like, what are you talking about?

00:17:25.040 Anyway, here's the clip from Trump's tape of that interview.

00:17:28.200 This story about Hunter and his laptop.

00:17:32.140 Some repair shop found it.

00:17:34.820 The source is Steve Bannon and Rudy Giuliani.

00:17:38.500 I don't know anything about that.

00:17:39.660 I just know it's a laptop and they haven't.

00:17:42.100 And you're making this one of the hottest, most important issues in your house.

00:17:47.880 I don't know about the two gentlemen you mentioned.

00:17:51.240 It's a very important issue to find out whether or not a man's corrupt,

00:17:54.600 who's running for president, who's accepted money from China, and from Ukraine, and from Russia.

00:18:01.360 Yeah, I think that's an important issue.

00:18:02.980 It's incredible the way you can try and say this and sit there and look me in the eye and say it.

00:18:09.720 He accepted money from Russia, from Ukraine, from China, and from other places.

00:18:18.420 His brother, who didn't have experience, became a big builder in Iraq with that experience.

00:18:25.060 Take a look at what's going on, Leslie.

00:18:26.920 And then you say that shouldn't be discussed.

00:18:30.440 I'm saying.

00:18:31.200 It's the biggest scandal out there, Leslie.

00:18:33.600 And you think it's the biggest issue to campaign on.

00:18:36.180 I think it's this.

00:18:37.040 I think it's one of the biggest scandals I've ever seen.

00:18:39.440 And you don't cover it.

00:18:41.420 Because you want to talk about.

00:18:43.000 Well, because it can't be verified.

00:18:44.620 You want to talk about insignificant things.

00:18:46.660 I'm telling you.

00:18:47.520 Of course it can be verified.

00:18:49.080 Excuse me.

00:18:49.700 They found the laptop.

00:18:51.040 Leslie.

00:18:51.620 Leslie.

00:18:51.820 Okay, so number one, the laptop allegations have been investigated and discredited.

00:19:00.200 Okay, discredited.

00:19:01.820 And the laptop information cannot be verified, according to Leslie Stahl.

00:19:06.040 Why?

00:19:06.460 Because they just can't be.

00:19:07.420 She says they can't be.

00:19:08.680 They can't be verified because they can't be verified.

00:19:11.560 And now.

00:19:12.820 Now that same guy.

00:19:14.240 So the actual reporting on the laptop, which we now know has been has been verified.

00:19:17.780 It's been credited, not discredited.

00:19:20.480 But even though 60 ignored it and everybody else ignored it and actually stopped it from circulating.

00:19:25.160 Now the very man behind the laptop, Hunter Biden, is on a book tour.

00:19:28.980 And it's infuriating me, Clay.

00:19:31.560 No one, no one is probing.

00:19:34.880 CBS's attempt was like, is it your laptop?

00:19:37.500 I don't know.

00:19:38.600 It could be.

00:19:39.560 Could be the Russians hacked it.

00:19:41.140 That's as much as we've seen.

00:19:42.960 I'm with you.

00:19:43.840 I mean, so much.

00:19:45.560 It's infuriating to me in the same way that I know it's infuriating to you.

00:19:48.840 And I imagine a lot of people who are listening to us right now, because I believe that the media's ultimate job is to ask hard questions.

00:19:56.800 Right.

00:19:57.460 It's not to be a arm of public relations, which is a lot of what media has become these days.

00:20:04.680 But it's as if there are talking points that go out, Megan.

00:20:11.140 You look at that, and it's like the idea that this laptop, which, again, is basically 100% validated at this point, right?

00:20:21.120 I mean, it would be the greatest disinformation campaign of all time for all of the photos and videos of Hunter Biden that were on this laptop to somehow be grabbed by Russia and relocated to a new lap.

00:20:33.700 I mean, it's virtually impossible to happen.

00:20:36.560 It's literally unbelievable.

00:20:37.760 Yes, and Trump is 100% right with everything that he said in that clip with 60 Minutes.

00:20:44.340 And good for them that they were actually running their own cameras to have a version of that conversation, which was not going to run on 60 Minutes.

00:20:52.060 But it goes to the essence of everything that I think is terrifying about this current universe that we're in, which is the New York Post.

00:21:00.600 Remember, they locked their account on Twitter and refused to allow that story to be spread.

00:21:06.480 And I'm writing about this right now for Friday for my website.

00:21:09.860 But I think there's a strong argument to be made, Megan, that if that story had been allowed to circulate as it normally would and if it had been covered as a fair and impartial journalistic universe would actually cover it, Donald Trump would be president just based on that story because he lost by 40,000 votes.

00:21:27.840 If you go count 20,000, I think it was in Wisconsin, 10,000 in Georgia, 10,000 in Arizona, if 40,000 votes are different, he would have won the election tied 269 to 269 in the House of Representatives, and he would be president right now.

00:21:43.640 That means only 20,000 people needed to change their vote in order for the presidency to be flipped.

00:21:50.900 That story was the – Trump is right.

00:21:53.000 I mean that story goes to the very essence of what Joe Biden is running on, which is you can trust me.

00:21:58.400 I'm honest.

00:21:59.120 Trump is corrupt.

00:22:00.040 I'm not.

00:22:00.680 My family will restore honor to the White House.

00:22:03.760 That is 100 percent not true.

00:22:06.540 And Joe Biden lied in the debates when he got actually asked about it.

00:22:10.880 He said it was Russian disinformation.

00:22:12.380 He knew that was not true.

00:22:13.780 His entire campaign knew that that was not true.

00:22:15.900 And the media even now is not holding his feet to the fire on this even though, Megan, Hunter Biden wrote a book and is doing interviews everywhere.

00:22:25.620 It's incredible.

00:22:26.040 It's not like they're hiding him and he's been – he's going to disappear.

00:22:29.020 He finally came out.

00:22:30.180 He finally came out of the basement where – his other basement.

00:22:32.640 All the Bidens had been in a basement.

00:22:34.560 Yes.

00:22:34.720 And he finally comes out.

00:22:36.280 And can you imagine as a reporter how you'd be salivating over the opportunity to finally get to ask him and this instead – and by the way, Mr. Jimmy Kimmel, you know, Mr. I'm funny.

00:22:47.100 I'm a funny man, but I'm also a serious man who's going to take serious positions on orange man bad and terrible policies because I'm somehow important to listen to.

00:22:55.500 This is how Jimmy Kimmel handled Hunter and the laptop.

00:23:00.320 Listen.

00:23:00.860 When they ask you if that was your laptop, you say you don't know, which is hard to believe unless you read the book.

00:23:07.460 Yeah.

00:23:07.620 And then it's kind of like, I'm surprised you have shoes on.

00:23:10.940 Yeah.

00:23:11.140 You know?

00:23:11.380 Read the book.

00:23:12.100 You know?

00:23:12.620 Yeah.

00:23:14.480 I made it.

00:23:15.300 I made it today.

00:23:16.620 Pants were the problem.

00:23:17.820 Pants were the problem.

00:23:20.400 Pants are always the problem, really.

00:23:22.420 Yeah.

00:23:22.800 Now, you know, look, I really don't know.

00:23:25.240 And the fact of the matter is it's a red herring.

00:23:27.520 It is absolutely red herring.

00:23:28.980 But I am absolutely, I think, within my my rights to question anything that comes from the from the desk of Rudy Giuliani.

00:23:38.520 And so I don't know is the answer.

00:23:41.780 Do you ever wish you had Apple care?

00:23:43.900 Yeah.

00:23:44.060 That would have been a good.

00:23:49.120 So he's a liar.

00:23:51.060 He's a liar.

00:23:52.040 I don't know is a lie.

00:23:53.320 He knows very well that it's his laptop and it's being investigated by the FBI and by congressional investigators right now, because that laptop, which, by the way, has now been verified by the Daily Mail.

00:24:05.200 Well, they hired a firm, former FBI agents.

00:24:07.900 It's just out on Friday, verifying that it's hunters, that it wasn't hacked, that it's not Russian disinformation.

00:24:14.240 They found one hundred and three thousand texts, one hundred and fifty four thousand emails, two thousand photos.

00:24:18.060 The guy's immersed in some weird, dark porn life with hookers.

00:24:22.960 He loves to film himself having sex with two hookers at a time and then posting it on Pornhub and then loves to watch it.

00:24:29.480 He films himself watching him, his own sex acts.

00:24:32.760 Something wrong with this guy.

00:24:34.160 His disgusting meth teeth, begging his dad to run for president to salvage his own reputation.

00:24:39.200 It shows that he was being guarded by a Secret Service agent while on a drug and hooker binge in Hollywood, despite the fact that he wasn't entitled to Secret Service protection at that time.

00:24:47.200 So that's a legitimate media story.

00:24:49.400 Dodging police action against him, despite his many drug dealer and prostitute encounters and run ins with the law.

00:24:55.380 All of this.

00:24:56.180 If this had been Donald Trump, Jr., oh, it would be unbelievable.

00:25:01.060 Megan, that's the that's the essence of it.

00:25:03.340 Look, and this is where I feel like this is, you know, I always like to say every now and then you put your lawyer hat on and lady justice is blind for a reason.

00:25:12.880 Right.

00:25:13.600 And I think this will resonate with you as well.

00:25:16.320 The goal of I think anyone who does what we do, maybe maybe I'm rare in this, but I want there to be a precedent where everything adds up for my opinions.

00:25:28.440 In other words, much like a judge can't just go willy nilly and a good judge anyway, can't go willy nilly ruling one way on one case and then the exact opposite on the other case.

00:25:39.920 To me, there needs to be a consistent precedent that you apply, regardless of race, gender, ethnicity, religion or politics.

00:25:46.780 Right. Like whatever you believe in, the rules should apply consistently.

00:25:50.800 And we don't have that. Right.

00:25:52.200 Like me, too, for Brett Kavanaugh is no way he could ever be a Supreme Court justice.

00:25:57.900 Better allegations, more significant, I should say, more credible allegations are made against Joe Biden of a far more egregious sexual assault.

00:26:05.720 And the story disappears.

00:26:07.840 I don't understand how a reasonable person can be making many of the arguments that the media are making.

00:26:15.380 And your point is a perfect one.

00:26:16.540 Donald Trump Jr. meets with some Russian agent for like 15 minutes in Trump Tower, and we spend four years investigating it like it's the height of the, you know, huge complicity between Russia and the United States as it pertains to the 2016, 2020 election, 2016 election.

00:26:35.060 And meanwhile, everything is going on with the Bidens, and it's like it doesn't even exist.

00:26:41.020 It blows my mind.

00:26:42.900 It's so transparently dishonest.

00:26:44.960 All right. And let's let's be nice.

00:26:47.740 Let's give Jimmy Kimmel a pass because he is just a cartoon.

00:26:51.420 Right. I'll take him at his word.

00:26:52.580 Let's put aside his many, many public stances on gun control.

00:26:56.160 I know he can't stand it for Republicans and doesn't care if they don't watch his show on health care, Obamacare.

00:27:02.020 And so, OK, right.

00:27:02.900 He's apparently when it's when it's Hunter Biden, he's incapable of asking political questions or taking a stance.

00:27:08.100 Let's give him a pass.

00:27:10.120 CBS CBS News can do a whole 60 Minutes report on.

00:27:14.340 That's fake about the governor's DeSantis, but they can't find in in an interview that they had.

00:27:18.700 They had him first, Hunter Biden.

00:27:20.080 He was on CBS this morning and CBS Sunday morning.

00:27:22.760 Can't find a way to ask him.

00:27:24.460 Forget, forget whether the laptop, the question about whether it's real and it's yours.

00:27:29.800 Right. Because that she did ask him that.

00:27:31.720 And he's like, well, I don't know.

00:27:32.700 By the way, Megan, if somebody ever says, I don't know, it means it's true.

00:27:38.120 Right.

00:27:38.440 Like, I mean, if you imagine like you went to your spouse and you're like, hey, like, who's this naked photo of somebody that's not me on your phone?

00:27:48.340 And he was like, I don't know.

00:27:49.700 I don't know how that got there.

00:27:51.060 Yeah. You would be like, yeah, I don't know.

00:27:53.640 Is this your phone?

00:27:54.640 Because it has somebody's picture.

00:27:56.120 You've been texting with somebody who's not me.

00:27:58.180 And if your spouse said, I don't know, you would be like, yeah, you are cheating on me.

00:28:03.920 Right. Like, I don't know.

00:28:05.880 It's like Austin Powers.

00:28:07.860 Vanessa, that's not mine.

00:28:09.820 But that's not mine.

00:28:11.260 Or Shaggy back in the day.

00:28:12.640 It wasn't me.

00:28:13.340 Like, you know, if you are if you are saying, I don't know, it means it's real.

00:28:20.360 Right.

00:28:20.780 Like, if somebody if somebody said to you, Megan, like, hey, I think I've got Megan Kelly's old laptop.

00:28:26.900 And they were like, everything that you could possibly imagine that is offensive to your character is on there.

00:28:33.680 Would you be like, I don't know.

00:28:35.680 It might be mine.

00:28:36.580 Or would you be like, God, no, that isn't mine.

00:28:38.340 I didn't do any of that.

00:28:39.360 Like, this is like if somebody was alleging that you were into the stuff that Hunter Biden is into, according to the Daily Mail reports and everything else that's coming out and you didn't do it, you would be screaming from the lap from the from the rooftops that it's not your laptop.

00:28:55.020 I don't know is as close to a acknowledgement as you can possibly get.

00:29:00.500 And you can't use the fact that you were an insane drug addict to defend from the fact that you don't remember, like, for 10 years what was going on in your life.

00:29:09.600 That's right.

00:29:10.020 And this was dropped off.

00:29:11.900 This this laptop was dropped off at the repairman, the legally blind repairman, which is just a fact that I love about the whole story in April of 2019.

00:29:20.280 It's not like it was 20 years ago.

00:29:22.000 It's April of 2019.

00:29:23.420 And so here's the point I'm trying to get to, though, that the reporter.

00:29:28.020 OK, you blow past.

00:29:29.840 I don't.

00:29:30.720 Vanessa.

00:29:31.380 Right.

00:29:31.520 You blow past that.

00:29:32.420 Right.

00:29:32.520 I don't know if that's not mine.

00:29:33.940 And then this is what a real reporter would do.

00:29:35.740 Well, let's talk about what's on the laptop reported.

00:29:39.760 OK, like let's talk about the scandals that were alleged as a result in part of what we learned in The New York Post that that got access to its contents.

00:29:48.320 We know you did sit on the board of Ukrainian oil and gas company called Burisma.

00:29:51.500 We know you did that while your your father was vice president and was the point man for anti-corruption efforts in the Ukraine at the very same time.

00:29:58.000 We know even two Obama administration officials raised concerns about a conflict of interest in you doing that.

00:30:03.480 Did anybody ask you about that?

00:30:04.720 Did you ever think that it might pose a conflict of interest?

00:30:07.200 Did you ever talk to your dad about Burisma?

00:30:08.800 Did you know that the number three executive at Burisma visited your dad at the White House?

00:30:12.700 Like, let's go on to the relationship with the Chinese.

00:30:15.000 Right.

00:30:15.180 That happened after Biden left office.

00:30:16.920 Did you have a relationship with this guy, Mr.

00:30:18.500 Yi, whose China energy company was his like business partner, Hunters?

00:30:22.700 It was all on the up and up.

00:30:24.140 Why did he send you a two point eight carat diamond?

00:30:25.900 Did you really to receive that?

00:30:27.140 What you do with the diamond?

00:30:28.120 Didn't you that strike?

00:30:28.780 He was a little funky.

00:30:30.040 By the way, Mr.

00:30:30.580 Yi has now been disappeared by the Chinese government.

00:30:33.040 Yes.

00:30:33.200 How about Tony Bobulinski?

00:30:34.740 Right.

00:30:34.940 Who was all over the news, Tucker and other people.

00:30:36.940 He says that there was a business deal between you and your uncle James and 10 percent of the dough with his Chinese company is supposed to go for, quote, the big guy, your dad.

00:30:44.540 Was your dad the big guy?

00:30:45.520 Did you have such a communication?

00:30:47.060 Do you think this could be relevant to blackmail against your dad?

00:30:49.780 Ask him about the facts.

00:30:51.240 You don't have to stay stopped on his denial, his lame ass denial about the laptop.

00:30:55.880 Get into the facts and get answers or at least try.

00:30:58.460 I would pay a ton of money, Megan, to see you interview Hunter Biden on pay-per-view.

00:31:06.440 I'd give anything.

00:31:07.720 I'd give anything.

00:31:08.160 I would – I mean he's obviously not going to talk to somebody like you who's asking questions that are legitimate that anybody in journalism should ask.

00:31:15.140 But you are just running through like somebody who is doing a good legal deposition would do in a case such as this and you would eviscerate that guy and anybody who watched or listened to that audio or video would know by the end of the – by the end of that interview that he was lying.

00:31:35.840 Here's one of the challenges, Megan.

00:31:37.740 You know who would see that?

00:31:39.280 The people who already know that he's lying.

00:31:41.980 The people who – it would be disappeared in some way thanks to big tech if you put it up, right?

00:31:48.060 I mean it's just – that's what's so incredibly terrifying I think about the era that we're in right now is Hunter Biden is a liar.

00:31:57.580 And all of those stories that the big tech companies disappeared and did not allow to circulate in October of 2020 right before one of the most important elections of our lives that may well have swung the election in favor of Donald Trump, which changes everything that's going on right now and certainly changes the trajectory of the country in many different ways.

00:32:19.260 And maybe you're correct, in 2022 we're going to recalibrate and that's going to change and 2024, God knows, is going to be a monster election as well.

00:32:28.120 But I just – the kid gloves, you know, Jimmy Kimmel I know and like because I work with his cousin on Daily Show.

00:32:36.640 So personally I like him.

00:32:37.740 I don't watch a lot of television elsewhere.

00:32:40.160 But you mentioned Jimmy Kimmel.

00:32:41.500 Remember what the media did to Jimmy Fallon when he treated Donald Trump, as most people get treated on late night talk shows, as a decent human being and not as an awful representative of all that's evil in the world.

00:32:56.020 Jimmy Fallon got destroyed.

00:32:57.660 Do you remember that?

00:32:58.240 Like that was like by the media for the way that he treated Donald Trump.

00:33:02.280 Well, that goes to my point on standards.

00:33:04.140 If your standard is we're going to go pretty easy on late night talk shows, you know, it's not what 60 Minutes should be.

00:33:10.880 It's not Megyn Kelly like, you know, peering over and just absolutely eviscerating you, which I would love to watch again.

00:33:17.700 But the standard should be same for the treatment that Hunter Biden gets or that Donald Trump gets or that Joe Biden gets or that Barack Obama get.

00:33:25.880 Like if you're going to go light on someone because it's relatively effervescent, you know, not very serious television, then the standards should apply evenly everywhere.

00:33:35.700 Jimmy Fallon shouldn't get destroyed because he went light on Trump because it's not exactly like that's the job of the show.

00:33:42.260 Well, and you are somebody in a similar way to we saw Parler get shut down and Trump get banned from Twitter.

00:33:50.240 You didn't get shut down or banned, but you did get information you had after you interviewed President Trump on Outkick dot com.

00:33:57.320 When you posted, you suffered suppression at the hands of Facebook, something you mentioned when you were asked to testify before Congress recently.

00:34:04.720 And it was a barn burner of a presentation I tweeted out because I loved the way you put everything and explained it so simply.

00:34:10.860 But they did it to you.

00:34:12.200 And you're not some crazy right wing hyper partisan guy.

00:34:16.460 Yes.

00:34:16.880 You had an interview with the sitting president.

00:34:19.000 Yeah. And again, I mean, I think it's it's illuminating in a big way.

00:34:23.700 And so to get back story for that, we had the president on a couple of times on my radio show live.

00:34:29.960 The first time was in August, right before there was a big debate going on about whether or not college football should play or not.

00:34:36.220 And I was fighting as hard as I possibly could to have a college football season happen.

00:34:40.380 All of the what I call Corona Bros out there, many of whom are in sports media, we're saying there's no way we can play college football or any college athletics safely.

00:34:50.240 Coaches will die.

00:34:51.340 Players will die.

00:34:52.420 And I just said, hey, let's look at the data.

00:34:55.400 College athletes are going to be fine.

00:34:57.220 And oh, by the way, the safest place they could probably be is on campus because they're getting tested every day, which means the moment they test positive for covid, they'll get immediate medical treatment.

00:35:06.260 Right. But these are young, healthy people.

00:35:08.320 And the data reflects that you're actually, as a college kid, more likely to die driving to and from the campus than you are from covid.

00:35:15.820 Right. You're certainly more likely on average to die from seasonal flu, for instance.

00:35:19.420 All right. So that was the background.

00:35:21.340 We're trying to get college football to be played and college athletics in general.

00:35:25.300 So he comes on, comes out strongly, correctly, as it turned out.

00:35:29.040 The data has now all reflected now that we finished March Madness, zero health related conditions for any college athletes in any sport who were able to play.

00:35:36.660 And thank God they were able to, because it has been important, I think, to returning some semblance of normalcy to college and high school,

00:35:43.640 which followed the leads very often of what colleges were doing.

00:35:47.180 High schools played in many parts of the country.

00:35:49.880 And so we wrote about it.

00:35:51.160 We put up a bunch of articles.

00:35:52.520 Donald Trump, it said, in favor of college football.

00:35:54.920 Donald Trump comes out, you know, like all these different sports related Donald Trump perspectives that he had on my show.

00:36:01.100 Our Facebook traffic disappeared.

00:36:05.000 Overnight, our Facebook traffic vanished.

00:36:08.840 So you weren't banned.

00:36:09.820 They didn't pull the post, but it but it just went away.

00:36:12.800 Nobody could see it.

00:36:14.400 They disappeared us.

00:36:15.880 What do you mean?

00:36:16.680 So the post was still up?

00:36:18.520 Post would go up, but the ability for so the way.

00:36:23.380 So what I always say is every Facebook's of the world will come back and say, well, our algorithms determine whether or not your content is shared and seen.

00:36:32.780 Right.

00:36:33.140 And there they say, oh, it's not a person.

00:36:35.180 But I'm like the person designs the algorithm.

00:36:38.200 And we had our tech team look at it, Megan.

00:36:41.180 And people can go back and watch my testimony.

00:36:42.860 I don't have the exact data in front of me right now, so I don't want to screw it up.

00:36:45.700 But it was somewhere around 80% of our Facebook traffic vanished for about two weeks in the wake of Donald Trump coming on and us saying positive things about him being in favor of playing sports.

00:37:00.680 And the lesson was pretty straightforward.

00:37:04.340 The same thing happened later.

00:37:06.480 The Wall Street Journal had a great piece from a – I believe his name is Dr. Macri, and I might be mispronouncing his last name.

00:37:12.340 It was a Johns Hopkins high-end scientist doctor who was analyzing herd immunity.

00:37:18.600 And he wrote a piece saying, hey, it's likely that we will have substantial herd immunity in this country.

00:37:23.380 I think his argument was by the end of April, based on the number of people who have had COVID and also the rapidity with which we are allowing others to be vaccinated, we're not talking about this in an intelligent fashion like we should be.

00:37:36.460 By May 1st, basically, his argument was many of the restrictions that exist now are going to be not necessary.

00:37:41.880 And by the way, so far the numbers seem to be reflecting that he is true.

00:37:45.820 We shared that Wall Street Journal editorial on OutKick and wrote an analysis also one of my writers did.

00:37:53.260 Facebook flagged it as disinformation.

00:37:56.660 And first of all, it's an opinion piece.

00:37:59.240 So the difference between fact and opinion is pretty substantial, right?

00:38:02.460 Like he's not claiming this is factual.

00:38:04.540 He's looking at the data and saying, projecting, hey, based on the data right now, here's what I think we're going to be at the end of April.

00:38:11.880 And Facebook destroyed our traffic for 17 days, I believe it was.

00:38:16.360 I think we tracked it like each time we get flagged by Facebook for about 16 or 17 days, our traffic disappears.

00:38:24.140 And that has real-world consequences for a business like mine, Megan.

00:38:27.820 Cost us hundreds of thousands of dollars in advertising revenue.

00:38:31.300 And maybe more importantly, because thankfully we've got a good business going right now.

00:38:35.620 Maybe more importantly, it doesn't allow the marketplace of ideas to flourish in a truly honest way.

00:38:43.560 And so hundreds of thousands, maybe millions of people that would have otherwise seen those stories and been able to consider them as a part of their overall opinions, they never see them.

00:38:53.440 And Macri, or I guess it's pronounced McCary, but he's actually going to be on our show next episode.

00:38:58.820 But first of all, that's not good for your Facebook, by the way.

00:39:02.040 Good luck there.

00:39:03.300 You know what?

00:39:03.980 I predict they're not going to suppress us.

00:39:06.060 I don't know.

00:39:06.600 I could be wrong, but I predict they won't.

00:39:08.320 But I mean, who knows?

00:39:09.680 You know, they suppressed Laura Trump's interview with her own father-in-law from Facebook.

00:39:13.560 His voice can't be heard.

00:39:14.960 He's like Voldemort.

00:39:15.840 He's like Voldemort now.

00:39:16.960 The voice of Donald Trump.

00:39:19.300 How about soundbites Facebook?

00:39:20.820 May we play former soundbites when he was the president of the United States?

00:39:25.320 Anyway, it's insane.

00:39:26.500 But so I don't know that the Hunter Biden story in and of itself would have changed the results of the election.

00:39:31.260 We'll never know.

00:39:32.380 But I think, and I've tweeted this out, if you look at the overall suppression by these tech giants of any news that might hurt their team, which is 100% the liberals, you can make a very strong case about it.

00:39:43.820 Like, look at this.

00:39:44.400 So your story with Trump gets suppressed and news about a COVID vaccine possibly coming or any good news about COVID under Trump gets suppressed.

00:39:54.160 Meanwhile, today, we know we've got Amazon booting books that don't say quite the right things when it comes to transgender issues.

00:40:00.320 Right.

00:40:00.600 Yes.

00:40:00.880 And on and on it goes.

00:40:01.860 So it's like it's this massive organism that is working to stifle stories about Hunter Biden and others that they think are going to be bad for their team and elevate stories that they think are going to be good for you.

00:40:13.240 They're like, get out the vote, get out the vote.

00:40:14.820 They had all the Democrat messages.

00:40:16.420 Or in my industry, every athlete that is embracing left wing politics is lionized as if they are the modern day Muhammad Ali.

00:40:25.220 And they are vastly over covered as if they are heroes.

00:40:29.800 Yeah.

00:40:29.920 Now, that that has an effect that the net net of that is rigging.

00:40:36.040 It is.

00:40:36.580 It's rigging an election.

00:40:38.220 That's the conservatives are rightly very focused on that and want to make sure that every legal vote counts.

00:40:44.060 They don't.

00:40:44.560 I know it's all about they want to suppress.

00:40:46.220 No, it's that every legal vote must count.

00:40:49.260 And no one can reasonably argue with that.

00:40:51.420 So this is what has people so up in arms and that we feel powerless to change it.

00:40:55.680 And that's why that the Clarence Thomas concurrence and that opinion was so encouraging.

00:40:59.940 It's like, OK, so if you can get the the right minded people into Congress, perhaps we could pass a law to rein in some of this insanity and make sure that viewpoints are not being silenced based on content, which is totally anti-American.

00:41:11.460 Coming up next with Clay, we're going to talk about Major League Baseball and how it hates Georgia, but loves China.

00:41:18.580 And then we're going to talk about the Olympics and whether we should be pulling the United States athletes from the 2022 games, which are scheduled to be held in Beijing.

00:41:27.400 And by the way, Clay's got information I hadn't heard yet on what they're going to let American athletes, what we've decided American athletes can do if they find themselves on the podiums there.

00:41:40.200 Stay tuned. First, this, though.

00:41:49.320 Let me ask you about the biggest story on that, which is MLB pulling its its all star game out of Atlanta, Georgia.

00:41:55.680 And I've got to ask you about the latest, which is President Biden doing a pretty clear 180.

00:42:02.860 He's he's really the reason this happened.

00:42:04.860 He caused this mess by saying that Georgia's new voter I.D. law was Jim Crow 2.0.

00:42:11.280 And then they pulled it. They pulled the game from a state that's 52 percent black and moved it to a city that's 52 percent black and moved it to a city that's 9 percent black.

00:42:20.740 30 percent of the businesses in Atlanta black owned.

00:42:23.120 Too bad. They're screwed. They're going to lose 100 million dollars over this.

00:42:26.140 Anyway, here's Biden then and now.

00:42:29.260 So, Mr. President, what do you think about the possibility that baseball decides to move their all star game out of Atlanta because of this political issue?

00:42:36.980 I think today's professional athletes are acting incredibly responsibly.

00:42:46.460 I would strongly support them doing that.

00:42:49.160 Mr. President, do you think the Masters golf tournament should be moved out of Georgia?

00:42:53.640 I think that's up to the Masters.

00:42:56.760 Look, you know, it is reassuring to see that for profit operations and businesses are speaking up about how these new Jim Crow laws are just antithetical to who we are.

00:43:22.720 There's another side to it, too. The other side to it, too, is when they, in fact, move out of Georgia.

00:43:31.300 The people who need the help the most people are making hourly wages sometimes get hurt the most.

00:43:39.440 Yeah. Thanks to you, who before we had that soundbite asking you to react to the decision by MLB, you were the one encouraging them to do it in the first place.

00:43:47.160 Oh, I mean, this is I hope that this is like across the Rubicon moment for many people for a long time.

00:43:55.840 I have argued that sports should be I haven't argued that like conservative athletes should be arguing for their political beliefs.

00:44:04.220 Most people who have moderate, medium, you know, 75, 80 percent of I would say sports fans.

00:44:08.900 We're not arguing for opposite positions from left wing sports to be advocated in sports.

00:44:15.040 We're arguing for sports as a place where you can kick back, have a beer and enjoy a game and not have to think about politics for the three hours the game is taking place.

00:44:25.900 And I feel like Major League Baseball's decision to move the All-Star game has been a grab the pitchfork.

00:44:31.900 Screw it. We're going to have a full on fight now, because there are so many people who are pointing out the illogical nature of this way that this entire story took place.

00:44:42.420 First of all, Joe Biden has been being elected from Delaware for whatever it is, 40 years now.

00:44:47.020 And the state of Delaware has infinitely more restrictive voting policies than the state of Georgia.

00:44:52.440 Major League Baseball is based in New York State, where I believe you live as well.

00:44:55.880 New York State has far more restrictive voting policies than the state of Georgia does.

00:45:01.900 So you are what's so ridiculous about this Jim Crow argument in general is this is a fundamental untruth that was allowed to become a story that people took as a truthful one focused on the state of Georgia.

00:45:16.340 And people like Rob Manfred, who should be smarter, I mean, I think he's a Harvard trained lawyer, are so afraid of what might be said about them online that they don't recognize that all of these stories last for like 24 or 48 hours and then they're gone.

00:45:33.280 And what he's done is and you don't add anybody.

00:45:36.780 Here's what I would say about these these companies that are making decisions to be, quote, unquote, woke.

00:45:40.860 You're not adding any fans to your product.

00:45:44.000 Major League Baseball didn't add anybody who was like, oh, I was not a Major League Baseball fan before.

00:45:48.500 But then they moved the all star game out of Atlanta.

00:45:50.840 And now I'm going to watch every game and sign up for extra innings and make sure that I never miss a game.

00:45:55.220 No, no.

00:45:55.440 But they are alienating their base while adding no one, which is ultimately the worst possible decision any business could make, which is why I say the slogan, get woke, go broke, is applies to so many of these companies.

00:46:08.200 I mean, it's happened to ESPN.

00:46:09.760 It has happened to the NBA, which I know you talked about with Mark Cuban and they try to avoid it.

00:46:14.140 But here's a stat for you, Megan, that just came out.

00:46:16.740 Monday, the national title game between Baylor and Gonzaga was watched by roughly 17 million people.

00:46:22.940 A college basketball national title game, the average NBA finals game, which is the lowest ever on record, averaged right around 7 million viewers.

00:46:33.480 So 10 million more people were willing to watch a college basketball game featuring two, by the way, religious private institutions that are not particularly well known, Baylor and Gonzaga.

00:46:44.500 It's not like it was Duke, Kentucky or Kansas, North Carolina, like these big blue blood programs that everybody has an opinion on.

00:46:50.620 And the Mark Cubans of the world in the NBA, they won't acknowledge that they have destroyed their brand, but that's an easy kind of corollary to draw there.

00:46:59.400 17 million people, they like basketball.

00:47:01.580 They're willing to watch college basketball.

00:47:03.860 7 million people watch the Lakers and LeBron James because they've so alienated a massive portion of their audience.

00:47:11.880 And I'm afraid Major League Baseball has done the same.

00:47:13.660 What do you make of this? Because the reporting on it has been I read the other day that there was a group like a diversity group within Major League Baseball of players and some some 50 odd members of it, which apparently is not that many, were complaining and demanding that MLB do this.

00:47:31.140 So Manfred was, number one, responding to some faction of the minority players.

00:47:37.400 And then there was another report saying that he made the decision to pull this game after extensive, quote, extensive discussions with a vote with voting rights groups associated with LeBron James, Stacey Abrams and wait for it, Al Sharpton.

00:47:52.320 So if if it's the if it's the players, though, because this is what some have been suggesting, he didn't have any choice like they were going to take it on the chin for like individual boycotts if he didn't do this and he didn't want two months of coverage of that.

00:48:07.400 So he's like, I'll take the bullet for you. That's what his defenders are saying.

00:48:10.980 Yeah, I think they're wrong because I look if individual players don't want to play.

00:48:15.660 That's a one day story because nobody really cares about all star games, right?

00:48:20.240 I mean, if somebody doesn't show if somebody doesn't show up and doesn't want to play in the all star game, so what?

00:48:25.980 Right. I mean, like, that's their right. People decide not to play in the NFL Pro Bowl all the time because they just don't want to travel to Hawaii or because where they usually have the Pro Bowl or because they're tired because their season just ended and they bring in replacements all the time.

00:48:40.720 So I understand. Look, if somebody decides that because they by the way, they're actually not reading the bill or they're just buying into the hype, right?

00:48:48.400 But whatever. If they want to buy into the hype and they don't want to participate in the all star game because it's being played in Atlanta, that's fine.

00:48:55.200 But by the way, the Braves are still playing 81 games in the state of Georgia.

00:48:59.980 So are you willing to play in a regular season game, but you're not willing to play in the all star game?

00:49:05.980 Like, you know, that that's where the next that's what I would say to Rob Manfred.

00:49:09.780 If he had come to me and said, Clay, let's talk about this privately.

00:49:11.920 I'd be like, OK, some guys may not show up for the all star game.

00:49:15.080 Are they also not going to show up and travel to the state of Georgia to play for the Atlanta Braves?

00:49:20.100 Because they got 81 home games there. You understand?

00:49:21.860 Or or or to your point, because I noticed you've been making the point that MLB just struck a deal with this with this Chinese.

00:49:29.720 Yeah. Yeah. To air their games in China.

00:49:32.780 And it's like, OK, so why would you play in a single game then?

00:49:35.500 You shouldn't play even one game.

00:49:37.000 They played in Cuba, Megan. Barack Obama went to Cuba and watched a Major League Baseball game there.

00:49:43.960 Cuba. You know, I mean, like if you're willing to play a game in Cuba, I think you could probably play a game in Atlanta.

00:49:49.680 Just tossing it out there. Right. The president of the United States at the time, Barack Obama, went to Cuba.

00:49:54.360 Now, the argument was and we can agree or disagree about whether that's a valid one.

00:49:58.720 It's the same argument that I think we've lost in China.

00:50:00.700 It has been that American commerce is going to win the day in those countries.

00:50:07.140 And once you give them a taste of freedom, they're going to want more of it.

00:50:10.880 And that's the argument for why we interact with Cuba in that vein. Right.

00:50:14.680 And I think it's an intriguing argument. Are you legitimizing the government that is restricting freedom or are you engendering a growth in freedom by interacting with them in the first place?

00:50:25.460 In other words, like what is the appropriate way to interact with countries that we disagree with?

00:50:30.160 I think that's a fascinating question.

00:50:31.520 But if you're Major League Baseball and you've made the decision, hey, the way to change things is by bringing our product to Cuba, maybe the way to change things is by bringing your product to Atlanta and allowing people who disagree with the decisions made in the state of Georgia to voice those opinions and then go play ball.

00:50:47.900 I mean, that seems like totally different logic.

00:50:50.340 Yeah, that's it. Now, what do you make of because now Joe Biden has suggested, you know, he's going to take such a principled stance.

00:50:58.560 We'll see. Suggested that the United States may actually boycott the 2022 Winter Games in China.

00:51:04.400 I think we should do it. And let me explain my argument here is I think we should do it.

00:51:09.200 But I think we should have our own version of the Winter Olympics in the United States for free and fair countries.

00:51:14.660 Canada, United States, Western Europe, other countries, Australia, certainly that are willing to stand up to China, because what I believe, Megan, and this is something that I keep hammering home to my audiences, sports is being used as propaganda to advance the Chinese interest.

00:51:30.140 And most people still haven't realized we're so busy in America throwing punches at each other, arguing about stupid things like where the Major League Baseball All-Star game is that we don't realize China is punching us in the back of the head over and over and over again.

00:51:42.200 And oh, by the way, the social media apps that they won't allow their people to use in America, they are manipulating in our own country to make us more divided than we otherwise would be because it uplifts China.

00:51:52.400 And so before I get to 2022, 2021 is coming up in Japan and the United States has now said, well, players and athletes, when they're on the medal stand or being introduced or whatever, they can kneel for the national anthem.

00:52:03.840 And our American sports media is going to try to turn those people who do that, and there will be many, into heroes.

00:52:11.240 What they don't realize is China is going to take that footage, and they are going to use it all over the world, and they are going to say, see, this is what American democracy is.

00:52:21.240 It doesn't work.

00:52:22.520 They're racist.

00:52:23.300 They don't treat people fairly.

00:52:25.200 America shouldn't lead in the 21st century.

00:52:27.680 The way to follow and lead is with China.

00:52:30.380 So these American athletes are not sophisticated enough, I don't think, the Megan Rapinos, the LeBron Jameses of the world, to recognize that they are being used as propaganda pieces by America's enemies.

00:52:42.380 I didn't know that, that it's going to be okay for our athletes to take a knee if they win the medals.

00:52:49.480 Yes.

00:52:49.680 I see that as something very different than the football players kneeling on the sidelines.

00:52:55.140 It is.

00:52:55.520 It's tremendously different because your anthem is playing.

00:52:57.280 I don't like it.

00:52:58.080 I wouldn't do it, but I do support the right of Americans to protest our American policies, even if I don't support their actual position.

00:53:07.100 I do think the right to protest is something uniquely beautiful in our country.

00:53:10.100 So I understand what the consequences of that decision have been, and I wouldn't kneel myself, but it's very – then you know what?

00:53:19.180 Then you don't represent our country because you don't go abroad and embarrass your own country on the world stage.

00:53:25.340 If you feel that way about America, get the hell off the Olympic team.

00:53:29.740 I think it's a fascinating question.

00:53:31.460 And again, the way it's going to be praised in America, I don't think the athletes are recognizing that they are making things worse for American values that they claim to represent.

00:53:41.020 And Megan Rapinoe is a great example, by the way, because when the U.S. won the Women's World Cup in 2018, she chose the opportunity.

00:53:47.940 She refused to go meet with Donald Trump.

00:53:49.700 The whole U.S. women's team didn't.

00:53:51.160 They then just recently went to go with Joe Biden in office.

00:53:54.600 But if you look – and Megan, you'll be fascinated by this, and I don't think it gets enough attention.

00:53:59.080 If you look at the Women's World Cup every year, you can pick the winner of almost every match solely by analyzing women's freedoms in that country.

00:54:07.920 I'm not kidding about this.

00:54:08.920 When the bracket comes out, you don't need to know a single player on any team.

00:54:13.800 You can look at the overall freedom that women have in those countries, and you can pick the winner.

00:54:19.660 Why is that?

00:54:20.820 Because think about it.

00:54:21.880 If you have to play soccer wearing a hijab and you can't wear pants or you have to wear pants because you can't wear shorts, the idea that women's athletes are going to be empowered and able to train at a high level is virtually zero.

00:54:36.120 And so if Megan Rapinoe had used the opportunity of America winning in 2018 to argue not against America but to argue to the rest of the world, the reason why American women kick ass in soccer is because of American values which allow female athletes to transcend onto a level that doesn't exist anywhere else in the world.

00:54:59.820 Women's soccer dominates in America, not because our women are much better than the rest of the women around the world, but because they have the resources and the ability to compete in a way that the vast majority of women around the world don't.

00:55:12.920 That's an incredible story and platform that Megan Rapinoe had.

00:55:16.460 Instead, she denigrated American values while overseas and criticized and ripped our country when, to me, what would be so impressive to so many women around the world is for them to look at what America is, which is a shining beacon of opportunity for female athletes.

00:55:33.860 And this is what your women could accomplish if they had the same fundamental rights that American women have.

00:55:40.540 And so that's so frustrating about her platform is so valid and valuable.

00:55:44.820 And instead of building up the world, she tears down America.

00:55:48.780 And the thought of a female athlete in China where they're forcing sterilization on the Uyghurs, the Chinese Muslims, they're against their will, obviously.

00:56:01.480 They're rounding them up and putting them in concentration.

00:56:03.220 And forced sterilization on everybody for like 50 years, right?

00:56:05.380 You couldn't have more than one kid.

00:56:07.120 Exactly.

00:56:07.560 But now it's an actual genocide.

00:56:09.460 They're rounding up people.

00:56:11.200 We've seen the satellite images and torturing them, forcing them into labor camps, forced sterilization on the women, separation from children.

00:56:18.880 And in that country, you're going to kneel because you don't respect America's approach to human rights.

00:56:26.520 Yeah, I agree.

00:56:27.560 Get off the team.

00:56:28.360 Get up and get off that stage.

00:56:30.560 You don't represent this country.

00:56:32.400 That is not how most Americans would represent the USA abroad.

00:56:36.620 Propaganda, right?

00:56:37.520 Because China takes that and they share it all over the world.

00:56:40.600 And they say, this is the problem with America.

00:56:42.840 See, America's not great.

00:56:44.140 You need to follow China.

00:56:45.220 And so my answer would be, we can't go to Beijing because of COVID, because of the genocide, the Uyghur population, Xinjiang, everything that's going there.

00:56:51.740 By the way, I'm afraid they're going to invade Taiwan and try to take it over just like they did Hong Kong, which is another connection with the NBA where American sports failed.

00:57:00.560 To celebrate basic human rights around the world, the democracy.

00:57:03.720 I think we have the 2022 Winter Olympics, our own version in the United States, and we invite all of the democratic countries around the world to come here.

00:57:13.140 Maybe we share it with Canada in some form or fashion.

00:57:16.020 We've obviously done it at Park City in recent history.

00:57:18.560 They did it in Vancouver for the Winter Olympics recently.

00:57:21.180 I don't think we can legitimize Chinese governance by allowing our people to go there and basically kneel at the altar of an authoritarian communist Chinese government.

00:57:30.960 I think it's the wrong call.

00:57:32.560 Interesting.

00:57:33.080 It would be a hell of a statement.

00:57:34.820 So we'll see.

00:57:35.400 I agree.

00:57:35.600 I mean, you always have to think about these poor athletes.

00:57:37.320 But I like – it's sort of like when the bitchy girl in high school is having the big party and she treats everyone so awfully and you just decide not to go.

00:57:43.040 I'm just not going to go.

00:57:43.700 I'm going to have my own party with the nice girls.

00:57:45.560 Canada, Great Britain.

00:57:45.780 And by the way, we win all of the – us in Canada win all the medals anyway.

00:57:49.520 So whatever gold medals are won in 2022 China without the United States and Canada and all the Western democracies there, I mean, the real champs will be occurring in our country or in Canada.

00:58:01.060 To me, that's a solution that would avoid the punishment going to the athletes not being able to represent their country.

00:58:08.160 One of my teammates just texted me, Canada will still be shut down.

00:58:12.160 Sadly, that might be true.

00:58:13.360 Coming up in one second, the biggest sports story you haven't heard and why.

00:58:20.160 First, though, this.

00:58:27.440 Did not even know until I read the packet that my team prepared for this interview that this guy, who's a major NFL quarterback, a four-year deal at $156 million,

00:58:37.860 is in a massive world of trouble with the law in civil lawsuits?

00:58:44.220 And you tell me why most people, including me, have not heard that Deshaun Watson has been massively accused of sexual misconduct.

00:58:53.820 All right.

00:58:54.000 So here's what's going on right now.

00:58:55.120 I'll give you like a two or three sentence.

00:58:56.720 He's been – 22 civil lawsuits have been filed by 22 different masseuses alleging that he sexually assaulted them.

00:59:06.460 So in three different states, I believe, right now, mostly in Texas, which is where he lives, also in Georgia, and I believe in California.

00:59:15.300 But 22 different masseuses have alleged that he sexually assaulted them, civil lawsuits.

00:59:21.340 There are also pending criminal investigations into that behavior.

00:59:25.000 As we speak today, there has not yet been any criminal charge filed, but may well happen in the near future.

00:59:31.520 Deshaun Watson, of course, has denied it.

00:59:33.240 I believe – so this is my angle on why that story has not crossed over because there's a possibility, right?

00:59:41.120 I always like to think – and as a lawyer, you know this too – I always like to think probabilistically.

00:59:47.040 Best case scenario for Deshaun Watson, he pays tens of millions of dollars in settlements, probably comes out and says he doesn't believe he committed a crime,

00:59:55.080 but he understands he made people uncomfortable, and he apologizes for that, and he gets suspended for most of the 2021 season for the NFL.

01:00:05.240 If, worst case scenario, he could be the NFL's version of Jeffrey Epstein or Bill Cosby, and he could never play the sport again.

01:00:14.560 I mean, he could end up in prison.

01:00:15.800 So we don't know.

01:00:16.620 That's a wide range of potential outcomes.

01:00:18.560 None of them are good for Watson, but obviously there's a wide range of potential outcomes.

01:00:22.360 Here's what I believe happens, Megan.

01:00:24.480 I think this is where sports has become so much like the political universe in general.

01:00:30.320 You have two different victimization ideologies conflicting, and the sports media, which I'm a part of, has no idea how to cover it

01:00:39.000 because they're terrified that they're going to end up a target in either direction.

01:00:42.340 Either you argue that these 22 women, which is pretty difficult to argue, I think, for most people out there,

01:00:49.260 22 different women are all lying and colluding against Deshaun Watson in an effort to get money from him,

01:00:55.760 and he did not actually behave in an inappropriate manner or sexually assault any of them,

01:01:00.420 in which case you are calling 22 women, the majority of whom, by the way, are minority women, liars.

01:01:06.100 Or you come out and you say what I said, this guy could be Jeffrey Epstein and Bill Cosby,

01:01:13.260 and you are attacking a black quarterback, which right now he is at the pinnacle of the athlete victimization scale.

01:01:22.940 You cannot say a bad thing about a black quarterback in America, sports today,

01:01:27.660 without somebody saying, oh, that's racist because of historical discrimination against black quarterbacks

01:01:33.780 years and years into the past, right, when they didn't get necessarily the same opportunity as white quarterbacks.

01:01:39.920 And so you have two different identity cultures colliding against each other,

01:01:45.540 and people are paralyzed with fear because, on the one hand, they're going to have BLM after them

01:01:51.840 if they say anything negative about Deshaun Watson,

01:01:54.320 and on the other hand, they have Me Too after them if they say anything negative about the 22 women.

01:02:00.700 And so there is a paralysis which has kept the media because there isn't an easy villain here.

01:02:07.020 There isn't, like if this were a white quarterback who was accused of sexually assaulting 22 different

01:02:12.560 majority-minority masseuses, it would be everywhere, right?

01:02:16.460 It would be like, oh my God, this is hashtag white privilege, this is what happens.

01:02:19.740 But because Deshaun Watson, black quarterback, 22 minority-majority masseuses,

01:02:26.340 nobody knows how to handle it, and it has not transferred over into what I would call the larger universe

01:02:33.140 where people like you might expect to see it in the news story.

01:02:36.480 Outkick is one of the few places in the entire sports media that's been covering this aggressively,

01:02:40.920 and to my point, my argument is, hey, we cover athletes, star quarterbacks, with issues with the law

01:02:47.960 because it's a massive story that could impact their ability to continue to play.

01:02:52.060 And I think people are terrified to touch it because you've got two different third rails on either side.

01:02:57.640 Well, and I saw you make the point, and you have to explain this one too.

01:03:00.400 I vaguely recall this, but you were saying, think about the way Peyton Manning's alleged mooning was covered.

01:03:06.080 Or who did he moon and when, and what happened there?

01:03:08.800 So this is unbelievable racial politics.

01:03:12.580 So in the wake, this has probably been four years ago or so, I think it was the 2017, if I'm not mistaken, Super Bowl,

01:03:18.840 the Denver Broncos quarterback Peyton Manning played against the Carolina Panthers quarterback Cam Newton.

01:03:23.920 White quarterback, black quarterback.

01:03:25.400 And at the end of the game, Cam Newton went off the field without shaking hands and then flipped out during his post-game interview

01:03:36.300 and refused to answer any more questions, and it turned into a big story.

01:03:41.160 Peyton Manning's team won, by the way, the Denver Broncos.

01:03:44.240 And so in the days that followed, Cam Newton was getting criticized.

01:03:48.700 And you may know this ridiculous, I think he's a white guy who's pretending to be black activist online, Sean King.

01:03:55.600 Oh, he's the worst.

01:03:56.880 Yeah, I call him Talcum X.

01:03:59.200 But so he is, he is, he decides that the reason why Cam Newton is being criticized is not because he stormed out of his press conference

01:04:09.600 and not because, you know, they lost the game and he didn't have a good game.

01:04:12.840 It's because he's black.

01:04:13.960 And so he goes back into a 20-year-old civil lawsuit that was filed against Peyton Manning and says,

01:04:22.000 look at Peyton Manning, he's been protected for all these years.

01:04:24.980 So when Peyton Manning was in college at the University of Tennessee, this is in the 1990s,

01:04:29.940 he was in a, in a training room and he allegedly mooned.

01:04:37.900 There's like uncertainty exactly what happened, but he was in the training room.

01:04:41.000 There were other people there and he didn't like this trainer that was there.

01:04:44.360 And like, she was working on his ankle.

01:04:47.240 And when she looked up, he had pulled down his pants and he mooned her.

01:04:50.860 And like, she complained about it and, and said, like, I'm so uncomfortable about what Peyton Manning did.

01:04:57.100 And they ended up paying her like a, uh, like several hundred thousand dollars as a settlement, whatever.

01:05:01.900 Like, because she was like, this is sexual harassment, whatever else.

01:05:04.900 Right.

01:05:05.120 That's basically the whole story of it.

01:05:07.040 And it was covered quite a bit when he was in college, like this mooning incident.

01:05:11.000 And then they covered it like 20 years later after the Superbowl ESPN covered it.

01:05:17.580 Like it was freaking Watergate.

01:05:18.900 I mean, they had multiple guys like researching it.

01:05:21.680 It was a lead story.

01:05:23.200 It was a massive discussion.

01:05:24.800 Like, Hey, did Peyton Manning receive preferential treatments?

01:05:27.880 Like 20 years ago, he's a college kid before you even know that he's going to end up being,

01:05:32.720 you know, one of the greatest quarterbacks of all time.

01:05:34.560 And it was a racial animus related story that came out of Sean King, uh, arguing because he

01:05:41.140 was upset about the way that Cam Newton was treated.

01:05:43.160 And so my argument has just been usually when a quarterback, especially a good quarterback

01:05:49.080 has any sort of legal proceeding involving them, whether it's Jameis Winston, Ben Roethlisberger,

01:05:54.660 you may remember the Michael Vick dog fighting incident.

01:05:57.480 Like those guys are so famous that they are covered with a fine tooth comb.

01:06:02.900 Yet there is an incredible reticence.

01:06:05.460 I think ESPN has one person who's not even that prominent of a reporter covering this,

01:06:10.640 uh, Deshaun Watson story.

01:06:12.640 And I think it's because you've got identities colliding.

01:06:15.340 I believe fundamentally, if there were a 25 year old white quarterback who was a star quarterback,

01:06:21.100 it would be covered in a rigorous fashion.

01:06:24.560 Uh, but I think because it's a black quarterback, they're afraid.

01:06:27.840 And if the accusers were, were mostly minority, a hundred percent, the person probably would

01:06:31.400 have already been suspended.

01:06:32.540 I mean, it's Duke lacrosse, right?

01:06:34.660 Yeah, exactly right.

01:06:35.720 It would have been a totally different situation.

01:06:37.160 But the reason this isn't getting coverage is because it doesn't fit the narrative, right?

01:06:41.980 It's not a white guy doing this to minority women.

01:06:45.180 It's, it's a black guy doing this to minority women.

01:06:47.480 And I, I don't understand why, why wouldn't you care about the minority women?

01:06:51.500 If you care about the minority player, you know, the black player, why don't you care about

01:06:54.940 the black women who are making the complaint?

01:06:57.680 That's the, that's the argument.

01:06:59.160 That's the argument that I made.

01:07:00.000 And I think you hit on it.

01:07:00.940 Uh, we have identity politics narratives, right?

01:07:03.220 I mean, the, the shooter in Colorado looks like a white guy.

01:07:06.340 Everybody loses their mind in the, in the grocery store.

01:07:09.180 Turns out that he's a Syrian, uh, I believe his family immigrated a recent history, Syrian,

01:07:14.540 uh, and, uh, he's Muslim.

01:07:16.520 And the story disappears.

01:07:17.500 Um, you know, just up at the Capitol recently, this is a sports connection.

01:07:21.140 Cause the guy, uh, drove a car, killed a Capitol police officer, got out of the car, I believe

01:07:26.660 armed with a, uh, with a knife and they shot and killed him.

01:07:30.240 Uh, it turns out that he's a Louis Farrakhan, uh, follower, according to his social media

01:07:34.460 profiles, former college football player story disappears, right?

01:07:38.740 Uh, we just happened, um, former NFL player, uh, black guy kills five white people in Rock

01:07:45.780 Hill, South Carolina.

01:07:47.200 I don't know what the reason why he did it is.

01:07:49.500 It's an awful story in Rock Hill, South Carolina, doctor, his grandchildren, I think a five-year-old

01:07:54.340 and a nine-year-old, uh, former black football player kills five white, uh, Rock Hill, South

01:07:59.940 Carolina natives story disappears.

01:08:01.900 If you flip the narratives there, right?

01:08:03.920 If you flip the switch, if it's a white shooter in Colorado, we're still talking about it.

01:08:08.580 If it were a, a white foot, former football player in the NFL who had killed five, uh,

01:08:14.820 a fan black family of five, it's a lead story everywhere.

01:08:17.940 And if it had been a Trump supporter who drives his car and hit somebody and kills that police

01:08:23.160 officer and then gets out, uh, that would still be a lead story.

01:08:26.040 I mean, they still talk Megan about the guy in Charlottesville who drove the car and killed

01:08:31.120 that one protester.

01:08:32.140 Uh, we still hear obviously about the quote unquote insurrection surrounding the Capitol

01:08:36.720 all of the time.

01:08:38.720 If it's the right narrative, it never disappears.

01:08:41.380 If it's the wrong narrative, it ceases to exist almost instantaneously.

01:08:45.280 The murder of those five, the family members is only being covered for the gun control angle.

01:08:48.840 Like if they'll find their one thing that they like and they'll exploit that, but they're

01:08:52.320 not, it's, we've seen more and more of this lately.

01:08:54.800 You know, the 65 year old Asian woman who is violently kicked, caught on camera by a black

01:09:00.020 man, 38 year old guy just paroled after having been serving time for killing his own mother.

01:09:04.880 Um, that's not a story we've seen over and over on loop.

01:09:07.460 Like we would if that guy had been a white guy.

01:09:09.740 And by the way, I went after that, the New York times.

01:09:11.900 I don't know if you saw this.

01:09:12.980 The New York times had a front page for article for a journalist bylined piece.

01:09:18.160 But they didn't mention the race of the guy who beat up the Asian woman.

01:09:23.440 I'm sure it would have been the same had he been white.

01:09:25.600 Right.

01:09:26.020 And now it would have been the opening paragraph would have been as a, I mean, look at the

01:09:29.860 shooting that happened at the massage parlors.

01:09:31.780 I mean, uh, we don't know.

01:09:33.160 I mean, that guy seems like a, a loony bin guy.

01:09:35.480 Right.

01:09:35.860 But I mean, it seems like he was motivated not by race, but by the fact that he couldn't

01:09:40.320 control his sexual desires and kept going to these massage parlors.

01:09:44.220 That at least seems to be the storyline so far as I've seen the New York times front

01:09:48.060 page story for bylined writers.

01:09:50.700 They actually mentioned in the article, Megan, that police, this was before they had caught

01:09:54.960 the guy.

01:09:55.840 Police are seeking the suspect and asking for help in, in identifying him.

01:10:00.180 And they don't actually identify the suspect or identify the suspect in the entire article.

01:10:05.740 That's such a calculated decision.

01:10:07.640 If a white guy had beaten a 65 year old Asian woman in Manhattan, like it happened, the opening

01:10:12.640 paragraph would have been, uh, you know, white man attacks Asian woman.

01:10:17.060 So here's what you're getting now.

01:10:18.140 Okay.

01:10:18.380 This is posted on Yahoo news, um, on April 8th that here's the headline.

01:10:24.060 White supremacy is the root of all race related violence in the U S Jennifer Ho, professor of

01:10:31.440 Asian American studies at the university of Colorado Boulder would like us all to know.

01:10:35.860 She understands that some black people are attacking Asian Americans.

01:10:39.140 It's all right.

01:10:39.720 That there's been a disturbing rise in attacks on Asian Americans since March, 2020.

01:10:43.100 And she wants us to know, and I quote that anti-Asian racism has the same source as anti-black

01:10:50.420 racism, white supremacy.

01:10:52.700 This is still, still quoting.

01:10:54.860 So when a black person attacks an Asian person, the encounter is fueled perhaps by racism, but

01:11:00.480 very specifically by white supremacy, white supremacy does not require a white person to perpetuate

01:11:07.840 it.

01:11:08.140 She goes on the dehumanization of Asian people by U S society is driven by white supremacy

01:11:14.300 and not by any black person who may or may not hate Asians.

01:11:20.680 This is okay.

01:11:22.220 If I could choose one thing in the world to change Megan.

01:11:25.000 And, and I mean this in all honesty, and I shouldn't say in the world, because there's

01:11:28.640 obviously a lot of worse things that go on than what exists in America today by far.

01:11:32.180 Right.

01:11:32.420 But I shouldn't say in America, it would be this sentence if it could just be adopted

01:11:36.240 by the media in particular, white, black, Asian, and Hispanic people can all be racist.

01:11:43.620 If that were the operating guidepost, which I think almost everybody out there would acknowledge,

01:11:50.320 right?

01:11:50.560 There are racist white people.

01:11:51.780 There are racist black people.

01:11:53.080 There are racist Hispanic people.

01:11:54.440 And there are racist Asian people.

01:11:55.980 If we began with that as the, uh, as the jumping off point, then I think a conversation about

01:12:02.420 racism in this country would be far more interesting and far, probably far more productive.

01:12:07.420 But when you insist on covering racism in America today, as if it is perpetually 1964 in Birmingham,

01:12:14.940 Alabama, you are not advancing and recognizing the evolution of this country.

01:12:20.180 And you are not advancing and evolving as a country in the way that we talk about race.

01:12:25.740 And so, you know, using the legal perspective, you know, it was what happened to Emmett Till

01:12:31.600 is a function of racism, right?

01:12:35.740 Historically, if you study our legal system, there is no doubt that racism was embedded in

01:12:40.400 many of the decisions that existed in American life for much of American history, right?

01:12:46.340 But the way to solve racism in our court system is not by embracing more racism, right?

01:12:54.320 So what I've argued before, and I think you'll think this is fascinating because I'm sure you

01:12:57.700 were paying a lot of attention to OJ Simpson trial like I was.

01:13:00.780 OJ got off.

01:13:02.860 He was guilty of murdering two white people, right?

01:13:05.160 Ronald Goldman and Nicole Brown Simpson.

01:13:06.840 He killed them.

01:13:07.740 He got off because he argued the exact opposite of what Emmett Till argued.

01:13:14.900 He argued he was innocent because he was black, where Emmett Till was guilty because he was

01:13:20.220 black.

01:13:21.180 And so the way to solve American racism is not by adding more racism, right?

01:13:27.620 I mean, it's really fascinating if you look at the OJ Simpson trial through that prism.

01:13:31.580 The L.A. police were racist.

01:13:33.260 He was using the history, the legacy of racism in America to justify his double murder and avoid

01:13:42.140 responsibility for his own actions based on the sins of the American judicial system from

01:13:48.720 earlier before OJ became a rich multimillionaire.

01:13:53.100 And so he's cashing a check on the legacy of Emmett Till.

01:13:57.700 And that is where we are right now.

01:13:58.880 That's like Robert Shapiro, one of the lawyers on the OJ case said about Johnny Cochran, he

01:14:02.540 played the race card and he did it from the bottom of the deck.

01:14:05.540 And that's, you know, we've just seen, we've seen a lot of that.

01:14:07.840 You know, I want to shift gears a little bit with you because we're talking about athletes,

01:14:12.000 big athletes in the news, and I'm really interested in Tiger Woods.

01:14:15.900 I watched that documentary on him and I was really moved by it and just felt for the guy.

01:14:21.600 It's such a quintessential American story, right?

01:14:23.800 Kid from nothing special of a background, has his dad invest everything he has in him,

01:14:30.480 mostly time and energy and effort, builds this amazing athlete unlike any other.

01:14:34.980 The American media, American media eats him alive, right?

01:14:38.440 We build them up and then we tear them down.

01:14:40.540 It's what we do.

01:14:41.320 It's like, as soon as you get built up too high, too big, you should start to get scared

01:14:46.220 because there's no way the media will let you stay there.

01:14:49.360 And so he, you know, his life imploded after it came out.

01:14:52.680 He was a serial cheater and, you know, all the stuff with the hookers and, you know, went

01:14:56.140 on and on.

01:14:57.780 And then he was getting his life back together and he came back.

01:15:01.040 It was a huge victory.

01:15:01.840 He won, I guess, the Masters, whatever it was, one of those big ones.

01:15:04.700 Yeah, Masters.

01:15:05.460 Yeah, he wanted the Masters.

01:15:06.500 Yeah.

01:15:07.020 And then just when you're like, okay, that's also part of our American story.

01:15:11.200 You know, the redemption, like coming back, the comeback.

01:15:13.500 We love that.

01:15:15.000 We build you, we kill you, then we root for you to come back.

01:15:17.620 And then we tend to just leave you alone and let you live your life.

01:15:20.300 But Tiger had that big crash not long ago.

01:15:24.000 Now they've just released the cause.

01:15:26.060 It was everyone speculating, like, could it be drugs?

01:15:28.100 Could it be something untoward?

01:15:29.240 Because they won't tell us what it was.

01:15:30.280 And now he's waived his right to privacy, which is weird, because I don't think the

01:15:33.780 rest of us get a right to privacy when we have a car accident.

01:15:36.700 That's how they described it.

01:15:37.820 And it says the cause was he was going between 84 and 87 miles per hour in a 45 mile an hour

01:15:42.880 zone.

01:15:43.340 No signs of impairment.

01:15:45.060 He was wearing a seatbelt.

01:15:46.840 And this we already knew.

01:15:47.800 He had several emergency surgeries on his right leg, both bones in the lower right leg broken

01:15:51.380 with open fractures, like compound fractures.

01:15:54.040 The doctors are predicting a very difficult recovery.

01:15:57.040 So what do you make of Tiger, his story, and whether he's got yet another round in him?

01:16:04.500 His body is broken, and not just from this accident, but in general, the amount of surgeries

01:16:09.980 that he has had to have over the years was what made it so remarkable for him to win at

01:16:16.180 Augusta.

01:16:16.680 I think what he has is an indomitable will, Megan.

01:16:21.180 And so I wouldn't bet against him being able to return to a golf course at some point in

01:16:26.980 time and play again at a decent level.

01:16:30.940 But presumably, as he ages, every golfer gets substantially worse.

01:16:38.240 And his chronological age is probably lower than his body age because of all the injuries

01:16:45.420 that he's put himself through and had to recover from.

01:16:48.700 I find Tiger much like Britney Spears.

01:16:51.320 I don't know if you watched that documentary.

01:16:52.960 I see kind of a connection between the two of them.

01:16:56.160 I'm always fascinated, Megan, by the idea.

01:16:58.240 Everybody thinks that if they became young and famous, that you would be fine, right?

01:17:03.360 Everybody out there is like, oh, I'd be able to handle it, and it wouldn't really impact

01:17:07.540 me in any way.

01:17:08.920 But actually, that's rare, right?

01:17:11.040 Like, most 18- and 19-year-olds, and even younger, certainly in the case of Tiger Woods

01:17:16.440 and Britney Spears, are not prepared for that level of fame and that level of adulation.

01:17:22.720 And I do think it restricts, in many ways, your ability to develop as a healthy and functional

01:17:28.740 adult because your world is abnormal and you don't have a sense for what the real world

01:17:33.380 is like.

01:17:34.160 And I think that's where Tiger has found himself.

01:17:36.840 And it's interesting, in the world of sports, Megan, a lot of times, the guys that I find

01:17:41.220 that are the most normal are the guys that never anticipated that they were going to be

01:17:45.780 pro athletes.

01:17:46.820 Because some guys know that they're incredible at the age of seven and eight.

01:17:50.820 And sometimes, it's crazy to think, but these kids get pulled out and put on pedestals.

01:17:56.620 Sometimes before almost they even hit puberty, you can tell who the great 12-year-olds are

01:18:00.800 going to be, particularly men's athletics.

01:18:02.580 And then there's other guys out there who never really are aware of how good they are

01:18:07.940 and they just continue to get better.

01:18:10.480 And those people tend to be far more well-rounded because they weren't put on these pedestals.

01:18:16.120 And Tiger, to me, seems like, in many ways, a guy who never fully developed, if that makes

01:18:21.460 sense.

01:18:23.280 And I think the same thing is true of Britney Spears and many other people.

01:18:26.320 They're almost frozen in a perpetual adolescence because there is this universe that immediately

01:18:31.320 descends upon them and needs them to exist.

01:18:34.700 You know, they have all these people that are parasites kind of feeding off of them.

01:18:38.000 And it's much like, you know, politicians.

01:18:39.800 I think you have to be careful with them because they get this entire cottage industry surrounding

01:18:44.880 them and it exacerbates your foibles because so many people need you to be unique in order

01:18:51.220 for them to have a job.

01:18:52.860 And so whatever little, you know, idiosyncrasies you might have, there's somebody who is catering

01:18:58.200 to those, right?

01:18:59.100 Like, oh, this guy, he only drinks Fiji water.

01:19:02.260 Why in the world would you have a Dasani on the table, right?

01:19:04.880 Like, there's somebody who is in that, like, they owe their job to exacerbating those idiosyncrasies.

01:19:13.060 And then it becomes increasingly difficult to connect with everybody.

01:19:16.700 Um, and so that to me is what's so fascinating about both Tiger and Brittany.

01:19:20.700 And I think about it now, maybe a lot more because I'm a parent, um, and, you know, getting

01:19:26.880 your child to adulthood in this universe that we have created today of social media and

01:19:31.340 everything else without them being totally space cadets, I think has become incredibly

01:19:37.940 difficult.

01:19:38.340 Certainly COVID has made that more challenging.

01:19:40.240 And how do you do it so that your kids can be well-rounded, understand the world, but

01:19:45.540 also be confident enough to speak their mind?

01:19:47.880 I think it's one of the great challenges that every parent has.

01:19:51.240 And you look at Tiger, as you mentioned, his dad was completely devoted to him.

01:19:55.140 He was the youngest child.

01:19:56.780 And in many ways, he seems frozen in amber to me, always like that 16 or 17 year old kid.

01:20:03.920 Yeah.

01:20:04.500 Frozen in amber.

01:20:05.360 Well said.

01:20:06.360 That brings the image right home.

01:20:07.820 Well, as you were talking, I, it made me want to ask you about a conversation I had last

01:20:13.240 night at dinner.

01:20:14.260 So I went out with some of my friends, my girlfriends here in New York, and I, we were talking about

01:20:19.960 raising our kids and I have two boys and a girl and my boys are sweet.

01:20:25.560 They're, they're kind, you know, they're sort of built to be sort of kind and sweet.

01:20:29.720 They're not like ramming their heads into everything.

01:20:32.280 And, you know, I'm not, I'm not getting like reports back that, you know, they've assaulted

01:20:35.560 another kid at school.

01:20:36.400 They're not, they're not like that.

01:20:38.140 And even kids who are like that, you know, maybe going through a phase and it, everybody's

01:20:41.500 different.

01:20:41.880 So I'm not saying kids who are like that are bad, but mine are sweet.

01:20:45.980 And I had said the other day when Chris DiStefano was on the show, really funny comedian from

01:20:51.700 Brooklyn.

01:20:52.220 He was talking about how his dad is a criminal, his grandpa was in the mafia and his family

01:20:56.020 used to beat the shit out of him.

01:20:57.080 And he's like, there are two types of people in the world, people, those who have been punched

01:21:00.420 in the face and those who haven't.

01:21:01.560 And you kind of need to learn how to take a punch rhetorical or otherwise.

01:21:04.600 And I said to him and said to my friends the other night that we would, of course, never

01:21:10.620 tell our boys or our daughter to, to throw a punch at anybody.

01:21:13.660 That's not how you resolve conflict.

01:21:15.400 But we do tell them if you get punched, you may punch back.

01:21:19.700 Like you're, you're not going to get in trouble with us if you defend yourself.

01:21:23.500 And my, my gal pals here in New York, the one in particular who I love, she's definitely

01:21:27.740 progressive, um, was like, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no.

01:21:31.340 She's like, your boys are sweet and you want them to stay sweet.

01:21:34.600 And the answer to sort of bad behavior in life is not to like surrender to those who

01:21:41.220 behave like complete jerks and, and be a jerk yourself.

01:21:44.460 And I was like, well, that wouldn't be a jerk move.

01:21:46.280 That would be a just move.

01:21:47.680 Yeah.

01:21:48.160 And she was sort of saying, well, how would you handle it today?

01:21:51.500 I'm like, well, I don't know.

01:21:52.860 I'd probably take the high road, but I think it's different.

01:21:55.660 I hate to be sexist.

01:21:56.580 I think it's different for boys.

01:21:57.660 You know, I, I just think there'd be some demoralization on the part of a young boy.

01:22:04.220 If he didn't throw the punch back after getting punched in the face, but you're in this world,

01:22:07.800 you're in the sports world.

01:22:08.900 You're a man, you've got children.

01:22:11.180 What do you think?

01:22:12.840 I would tell him to throw a punch back.

01:22:15.100 And I have, yeah.

01:22:16.780 Um, and, and I understand the argument on the other side.

01:22:19.640 I mean, I certainly understand the, the, you know, for, for lack of a better way to phrase

01:22:23.660 it, progressive argument, but, and I do think there's a difference between boys and girls.

01:22:29.000 I don't have girls, right?

01:22:30.220 So I've got three boys, a 13, a 10 and a, uh, and a six year old.

01:22:34.660 And what I, I've said this a lot on my radio show before I said, look, I'm, I just turned

01:22:38.980 42 this week.

01:22:39.920 So, um, I said, if I ever end up in a fight at the age of 42, then my family or my life

01:22:48.260 better be threatened in a substantial way, right?

01:22:51.200 Like I'm not going to be the guy who's out at a bar and somebody's like, Hey, you suck

01:22:55.980 clay.

01:22:56.500 And I'll be like, Oh, I've got to go confront this person and have a conversation with them.

01:23:00.980 Yeah.

01:23:01.120 I'm not going to be Chris Cuomo, right?

01:23:02.900 Like I'm not going to be in any way, like boat up Chris Cuomo going over and getting into

01:23:07.920 an argument with somebody about whether or not I suck.

01:23:10.400 Right?

01:23:10.620 Like, first of all, most people, I don't know about your experience, but you know, on social

01:23:15.620 media, people are like, Oh, if I ever saw you, I would punch you in the face.

01:23:18.460 Right.

01:23:18.640 I get that every now and then.

01:23:19.880 And I occasionally will respond back.

01:23:21.820 No, you wouldn't.

01:23:22.500 You would come up and ask for a picture because Twitter is not real life.

01:23:27.120 So I, I, when I'm out, I get, I, I've never had anybody come up to me and like legitimately

01:23:33.800 be angry about any opinions that I've shared.

01:23:36.260 And everybody who comes up to me is all positive.

01:23:38.380 Right.

01:23:38.720 So that's why I always say like carnival is a, I mean, Twitter is a carnival fun house

01:23:43.280 mirror.

01:23:43.780 And one of the things that I think is frustrating about America is we try to adjust policy based

01:23:48.280 on what people say on Twitter.

01:23:50.160 And it would be like trying to diet based on standing in front of a carnival fun house

01:23:54.000 mirror.

01:23:54.320 You'd be like, Oh my God, I'm so fat today.

01:23:56.100 No, I mean like, no, you're not right.

01:23:57.960 Like it just depends on what mirror you're standing in front of in that day.

01:24:01.040 Like it's not a reliable representation of public policy.

01:24:05.220 And I think all these companies get in trouble, uh, because they, they think it's real life

01:24:08.980 and it's not.

01:24:09.900 Uh, but I think, I think it's important for, uh, boys in particular to understand that they

01:24:16.960 have to be able to defend themselves.

01:24:19.900 Right.

01:24:20.380 Like I have, uh, it's funny, my wife is pretty tough.

01:24:23.520 Uh, and so we have a boxing instructor come out.

01:24:27.100 This is a stupid rich thing that we do, but we have a boxing instructor come out to our

01:24:30.680 house twice a week.

01:24:31.800 Uh, and we do nine rounds, uh, with the, the boxing instructor.

01:24:36.280 Um, and, uh, and it is, uh, an incredible workout.

01:24:39.960 Right.

01:24:40.440 Uh, but it's also, I think just kind of, there's so many punches being thrown every day.

01:24:47.320 You don't really get an opportunity to exercise that aggression in many ways.

01:24:51.300 And so I love it, but I've had that conversation with my boys and I do think it's different for

01:24:54.820 boys and girls.

01:24:55.420 So when I said, I don't have a daughter, I don't know that I would encourage a daughter

01:24:58.900 to get into a fist fight with another girl, um, in the same way that I would a guy and I

01:25:05.100 wouldn't encourage it, but if somebody punches you, I mean, I think the idea that you're

01:25:10.060 just going to, you know, kind of wipe your, your lip off and turn around and walk away.

01:25:14.460 I don't think that's the way that you stand up to bullies.

01:25:18.120 Right.

01:25:18.560 And I think, I think that can, can go into like global foreign policy, right?

01:25:23.600 Like if China walks up and just slaps America in the face, which they did with Hong Kong,

01:25:28.960 which they are doing, I think in many ways in the South China sea and which they may try

01:25:33.060 to do with Taiwan, I don't think bullies respect, uh, respect like the idea of decency in the

01:25:42.820 world.

01:25:43.100 Like, I don't think Kim Jong-un is going to be like, Hey, I'm, I'm, you know, like threatening

01:25:46.980 to blow up things with these missiles that we're developing in North Korea.

01:25:50.620 I don't think he's going to be like, when he slaps somebody in the face, if we're like,

01:25:53.380 Hey, can we sit and talk about this?

01:25:55.460 I don't think that that bullies respond that way.

01:25:57.580 And I think at some point he's going to be like, that was really classy.

01:26:00.320 That was a really classy way.

01:26:02.620 Hey, can we talk about why you slapped me in the face?

01:26:05.220 Are people mean to you at your house?

01:26:07.400 Was your, uh.

01:26:07.680 I'm starting to see the light.

01:26:09.220 Yeah.

01:26:09.660 Like you're not going to psychoanalyze somebody away from violence in my experience.

01:26:15.700 And so I think sometimes you have to respond to violence with violence.

01:26:21.520 Um, you know, I, um, I was thinking about it because I actually, I, I have had a couple

01:26:26.320 of actual fistfights in my life and I don't, I was, um, when I was in sixth grade and the

01:26:33.440 other one, I was in, I think I want to say ninth grade, ninth or 10th.

01:26:36.320 So post puberty, you had a post puberty girl fight.

01:26:38.940 Oh, I mean, Clay, it was like something out of one of those Hunter Biden porn hub things.

01:26:43.300 Cause it was, I was in a cheerleading uniform rolling around on the floor.

01:26:47.780 So Hunter Biden, Hunter Biden might come on your show.

01:26:50.600 Actually, if you, if you tell him that you got in a, in a fight in a cheerleading costume,

01:26:54.100 that might, you might actually win him over.

01:26:56.300 Then we can watch it together.

01:26:57.700 That's his thing.

01:26:58.560 Look how good I was there.

01:27:00.300 So why were you fighting?

01:27:02.100 So this girl, her name was Connie.

01:27:04.000 She was older than I was.

01:27:05.360 She was a year or two older.

01:27:05.800 Do you have any idea what Connie does now?

01:27:08.220 No clue whatsoever, but she wore a ton of eyeliner.

01:27:11.260 It was the eighties and she had big old permed hair.

01:27:14.020 I also did, but hers was rather severe.

01:27:16.440 I remember that.

01:27:17.640 And she just didn't like me for, I didn't even really know her, but she did not like me.

01:27:21.140 And, and she had been sort of making snide comments about me and talking about me behind

01:27:27.500 my back.

01:27:28.160 And finally, one day we were in gym and I was running up and down the gym court playing

01:27:33.400 basketball with the, you know, the rest of the class.

01:27:35.660 And she was on the sidelines and she was literally growling at me.

01:27:40.340 She was growling at me.

01:27:41.860 So we go back into the locker room after, you know, the thing's over.

01:27:45.640 And, um, she says, she calls me a bitch and I'm like, what did you say?

01:27:52.780 And she goes, bitch.

01:27:54.960 And I said, if you say that to me one more time, you're going to regret it.

01:27:59.820 And she goes, bitch.

01:28:01.720 So I punched her.

01:28:02.860 And the next thing you knew, we were rolling around on the ground and we were punching

01:28:06.280 each other.

01:28:06.740 I mean, it wasn't just pulling hair.

01:28:07.900 It was full on punching, you know, the skirt up with the little briefs covering my, you know,

01:28:13.400 and, and I mean, just to top it all off, just for the perfect Pornhub ending, my lesbian

01:28:18.480 gym teacher came out to break it up.

01:28:21.960 Miss Smith, who I love.

01:28:23.640 Um, I, I confess I'm speculating about her sexuality, but I have a pretty good idea.

01:28:27.380 And, um, and you know what?

01:28:29.760 She never bothered me again.

01:28:32.180 And I didn't for, for one second feel bad about the way I handled it.

01:28:36.880 I would do it all over again.

01:28:38.580 And I think that's the point.

01:28:39.980 Like, so was there any consequences for your behavior?

01:28:42.200 Like, did they do anything to you?

01:28:43.200 I did.

01:28:43.500 Yes.

01:28:43.880 I had to go for two weeks internal suspension.

01:28:47.040 I was the only girl in the cheerleading uniform in there.

01:28:49.560 And that's really funny.

01:28:50.780 Oh, let me tell you like an X rated.

01:28:52.260 So as long as we're in the Pornhub world, I'll give you the X rated epilogue to this

01:28:55.400 story.

01:28:56.120 So, um, I literally was like the only one in there with my little cheerleading uniform.

01:28:59.760 And on Fridays, we'd hand out carnations to the boys.

01:29:02.160 I had my little carnations in there and I was the captain of the cheerleading squad.

01:29:05.360 And in my school, it was like something out of a John Hughes movie.

01:29:08.320 Cause we had different groups.

01:29:09.320 We had the creamies, we had the dirties, we had the swelts.

01:29:11.620 Um, and I could go on and the jocks and I was a swell, which is basically kind of like

01:29:16.140 a popular kid who tried to stay out of trouble.

01:29:19.280 Um, the dirties were like the ones who smoked pot and were in the hacky sack section at

01:29:22.840 lunchtime.

01:29:23.360 Anyway.

01:29:23.560 So it was all dirties in there with me and I got up to walk out of internal suspension

01:29:28.640 one day and this guy, his name was Todd, he's walking behind me and he says the following,

01:29:34.500 um, okay, forgive me.

01:29:36.760 He says long and thin may get it in, but short and thick makes better.

01:29:43.700 I'm like, I don't belong here.

01:29:47.100 That is, that is amazing.

01:29:52.420 Hunter Biden, if he hears this clip, I mean, he's going to be like, first of all, like

01:29:56.220 there's, I mean, they're going to have to take a new laptop away from him.

01:29:58.520 Probably there's no telling what he's going to create.

01:30:01.240 Um, I'll tell you a, uh, a fight story that I think you'll enjoy.

01:30:04.940 So I was in a bar, um, and, uh, and somebody, uh, shoved my then girlfriend now.

01:30:13.520 So there was a big line and this guy cut line and went into the girl's bathroom.

01:30:19.420 Right.

01:30:20.000 And then he shoved my wife, uh, then girlfriend.

01:30:23.340 That was in my twenties.

01:30:24.740 And, uh, and so she came out and she told me about it.

01:30:27.200 So I went to go, uh, talk to him and we, uh, like he was friends with the bar owners

01:30:33.560 or something like that.

01:30:34.400 And then later on that night, uh, we're out, uh, on the, uh, in the front of the bar

01:30:38.980 and he just comes up behind me and punches me in the back of the head out of nowhere.

01:30:42.340 Right.

01:30:42.680 Didn't see him like just straight back of the head punch and, you know, then turn around

01:30:46.820 and he catches me again in the face.

01:30:48.520 Um, and, uh, and, you know, hits me in the nose.

01:30:51.740 And so my nose starts bleeding.

01:30:53.680 Uh, and then I'd get, you know, maybe a couple of punches in or whatever.

01:30:56.080 We end up, we're rolling around on the ground.

01:30:58.040 And at that point, my nose is just gushing blood.

01:31:00.500 Right.

01:31:01.440 And, uh, and, um, and.

01:31:04.400 You know, there's a huge pile of people, right.

01:31:06.080 It's out in the street, uh, and people are trying to pull us off and everything else.

01:31:09.520 And I was so mad, but also logically thinking.

01:31:13.740 And, uh, and so like, I've got him in a headlock and, you know, like we're kind of rolling around

01:31:18.600 and, uh, and he was like, get him off of me, you know, trying to yell.

01:31:21.780 And I'm trying to get him in a chokehold or whatever else.

01:31:23.580 Um, and, uh, and then, um, like I just whispered into his ear, I've got AIDS.

01:31:29.920 Uh, I swear to God, because he had my blood all over him and I was like, oh my God, this

01:31:38.140 guy is going to be for the next months of his life.

01:31:42.340 I don't know who, I have no idea who the guy is.

01:31:43.920 Never seen him again.

01:31:45.000 Uh, but for the next months of his life, he's going to be like, I'm going to die.

01:31:49.640 Right.

01:31:49.880 Like this is, you know, and so anyway, that is next level.

01:31:54.360 Like I, I thought like to come up with that while you're at a headlock, like rolling around

01:31:58.480 on the ground with the guy, by the way, I don't have AIDS.

01:32:00.280 Uh, but, uh, thankfully, uh, but, but yeah, like I, I thought like, that's probably like

01:32:06.040 Navy seal level, uh, trash talk because you shouldn't pick a fight with a guy who went

01:32:11.260 to Vanderbilt law school, which now is, now it was a pretty decent, I mean, I, I definitely

01:32:16.840 think that guy was probably emotionally scarred for a long time, uh, worried that he was going

01:32:21.380 to, uh, to get AIDS from me.

01:32:23.280 What if he's listening to this story right now?

01:32:25.000 And he's like, that was Clay Travis.

01:32:26.360 I love him.

01:32:27.340 Yeah.

01:32:27.700 That would be really funny if he's a big fan now.

01:32:29.720 And he's like, I remember that that was, you know, 25 years ago or whatever the heck

01:32:32.760 it was now.

01:32:33.320 I don't think it's any accident that you and I are both recovering lawyers and we both

01:32:38.240 chose at least an equally pugilistic profession, right?

01:32:43.120 You've got to be built a certain way to exist in, in media, but certainly in any sort of media

01:32:49.360 that's contrarian, right.

01:32:50.920 That's going to push back on the, on the narrative that gets you accolades and awards and kudos.

01:32:55.920 Yeah.

01:32:56.140 I think you also, so what I always say is, first of all, my wife's going to be a big fan of the

01:32:59.700 wife says that, um, my gift to the extent that I have a gift is I don't, the noise of

01:33:06.320 negativity.

01:33:07.100 I remember the positive, not the negative.

01:33:09.620 And she's like, you know, somebody, so you can have 10 people say awful things to you

01:33:13.520 and somehow you remember the nice thing that somebody said.

01:33:16.360 And so it is an interesting point, I think in the social media universe, because there's

01:33:20.840 so much constant negativity sort of raining down on you that, uh, that it's easy to, I

01:33:26.600 think, just kind of get lost in that, in that, uh, in that, oh, it's like the, I watch all

01:33:32.200 these old eighties movies with my kids.

01:33:33.680 Now remember in Ghostbusters two, like they have that, uh, that goo, like the pink goo

01:33:38.780 that like gets on people and like, it makes everybody super mad.

01:33:41.880 I feel like that's social media.

01:33:43.240 We kind of live in that pink goo universe or people who remember Ghostbusters two.

01:33:47.120 Uh, and I remember the positive.

01:33:48.800 And then the other thing I would say is I take my opinions seriously, but I don't take

01:33:53.980 myself very seriously.

01:33:56.140 And that to me is, uh, I think kind of an important distinction because I really legitimately

01:34:03.500 doesn't bother me.

01:34:04.560 If somebody thinks that I'm the most awful human being on the planet, my wife asked me

01:34:08.680 the other day, she was like, what do you think your approval rating is among sports fans?

01:34:12.580 And I was like, I don't know, 35%.

01:34:14.520 And she was like, that means 65% of people hate you.

01:34:17.620 And she was like, how do you live like that?

01:34:19.700 And I was like, well, you know, you get elected president with like 50% plus one now.

01:34:23.780 So, you know, we live in a 50, 50 culture.

01:34:26.340 And when I said 65% of people don't like me, I was like, but the 35% who like me, like

01:34:31.700 love me, they would dive in front of a bullet if somebody was trying to fire at me.

01:34:35.300 And a lot of that negativity is just kind of an amorphous negativity without actually

01:34:39.920 listening or reading to what's said.

01:34:41.800 And so it just doesn't really impact me.

01:34:43.680 And I would imagine in some ways you have to be tough.

01:34:46.340 And to your credit, what I find often in the world of sports is, uh, it's so hard.

01:34:53.420 I think for people to be willing to say what they really think.

01:34:57.200 And I think it's even harder for women because there's a cosmetic element to what we do too,

01:35:03.980 right?

01:35:04.160 Like I, it doesn't really, it's amazing to me how often people rip me for what I'm wearing

01:35:08.120 or what I look like or whatever else that doesn't strike me as much.

01:35:11.360 Cause I don't think like, I can't tell you right now while we're talking, this is a hundred

01:35:14.820 percent true.

01:35:15.380 I can't tell you what t-shirt I'm wearing and what, uh, what pants I'm wearing.

01:35:20.580 Like if I don't look down, I do have pants on, by the way, I don't want Hunter Biden to

01:35:24.600 get too excited.

01:35:25.700 I legitimately can't tell you what I'm, what I'm wearing.

01:35:28.520 And when I go out to dinner tonight, uh, with my wife, if I'm sitting down at the table

01:35:32.420 and I don't look down and look at what I'm wearing, I will have already forgotten about

01:35:36.600 what I wear.

01:35:37.020 In other words, like cosmetic aspects are not really in the back of my mind ever.

01:35:40.440 I don't think about them.

01:35:41.460 And I do think that social media, people try to go to what they think your ultimate weakness

01:35:47.020 is much like a bully in school.

01:35:48.760 And if you actually get wrapped up in it, you can lose sight of what you believe.

01:35:54.580 And also sort of your personal self-worth because you're allowing somebody else to define you.

01:36:01.120 Well, can I tell you like, yes, there's certainly a physical aspect and that's, that's actually

01:36:06.040 been one of the delights of doing, you know, audio, working in audio is.

01:36:10.560 I've always said, even when I was, when I was very young at Fox news, or I wasn't that

01:36:13.800 young, but I was at Fox news.

01:36:15.020 There was a young, very beautiful young reporter whose name people would know, but I'm not going

01:36:18.800 to repeat here who, um, she was gorgeous.

01:36:22.180 And she was, they gave her like a bunch of papers and she, to study up and you could see

01:36:26.780 she was totally flustered and she didn't understand the news.

01:36:29.560 And the makeup artist is so, so funny.

01:36:31.680 He was like, sweetheart, you put those papers over there.

01:36:34.540 You don't, you don't look through those papers anymore.

01:36:36.180 You just go out there and you'll be you, right?

01:36:38.600 Like he was very clear.

01:36:40.000 Just read the glass.

01:36:41.160 Just read the glass.

01:36:42.260 Yeah.

01:36:42.640 Very clear to this gal that she was expected to look pretty.

01:36:46.420 And that's the job she, she wanted to fulfill.

01:36:48.320 And I remember talking to her later and saying, it's just something to think about.

01:36:52.220 You know, the greatest compliment is, is to get people to listen to you and not just look

01:36:56.920 at you, not just want to look at you.

01:36:59.000 And that's, that's one of the great things about audio, but I will say you can't, this

01:37:03.500 for your wife who sounds smart.

01:37:05.020 Um, but, but this is for her.

01:37:07.240 If you look, if you wanted to look at like the approval rating of Jennifer Aniston, it probably

01:37:12.020 be 98%.

01:37:13.520 Um, she's not in our business.

01:37:17.580 We are in the business of talking about the most controversial, controversial things on

01:37:23.840 earth the most.

01:37:25.080 So you're not going to find really any news person who takes any risks.

01:37:29.460 And I will say one way or the other left or right.

01:37:32.500 Um, who takes any risks whatsoever.

01:37:34.240 And I speak not of like a Lester Holt, right?

01:37:36.080 Like he's not there taking a lot of risks.

01:37:37.980 He's trying to keep it straight, even though we know the content and, you know, it's pretty

01:37:41.680 biased at NBC.

01:37:42.380 Anyway, who's going to have a big approval rating, but to your point, when people feel

01:37:46.820 validated, when you will say the things nobody else will say, cause you know, they're true.

01:37:50.760 I do think it creates a special relationship with your audience.

01:37:53.800 I think you're a hundred percent right.

01:37:55.240 And, um, you know, the other thing is, and I'm sure you found this with the podcast and

01:38:00.240 I certainly find it with my radio show and the Outkick website that we run.

01:38:04.680 There are so many people carrying around so much of a burden on their shoulders because

01:38:09.580 they don't think they can say what they actually believe right now.

01:38:14.320 And, uh, because for fear of losing their job.

01:38:17.080 Right.

01:38:17.500 And so people say like, like talk about stress.

01:38:20.920 Stress is being a guy who makes, you know, 50, $60,000 a year has got a couple of kids

01:38:26.240 that you're trying to help get through college.

01:38:28.020 And you have a job that, you know, at any moment could disappear and you have virtually

01:38:32.560 no safety net.

01:38:33.680 Do I want to be, if I'm that guy, do I want to be on, or girl, do I want to be on Facebook

01:38:39.020 saying what I think about the latest, uh, the latest, whatever it is, right?

01:38:43.800 The latest story du jour.

01:38:45.120 Uh, the answer is no.

01:38:46.800 And so so many of those people are desperate to find people who will say what they wish

01:38:53.180 they could say.

01:38:54.180 And I feel incredibly fortunate that I found it out kick and that I have a lifestyle where

01:39:00.100 at the end of the day, I don't, I don't carry around a burden, right?

01:39:04.440 I say exactly what I think.

01:39:05.960 My wife says the reason I don't need therapy is because every day live on the radio is my

01:39:11.540 therapy.

01:39:11.900 I say exactly what I think, uh, people can agree or disagree with it.

01:39:15.900 And when I, you know, hang up the phone basically, or take off my headset, I should say for the

01:39:20.400 end of the show, I feel light as a feather, Megan.

01:39:23.360 Like I, I don't feel like there's any angst that I have been unable to address.

01:39:28.240 And I feel like for you, I'm sure you've found this with the podcast, with people that you

01:39:32.120 hear from, and certainly from the television show and everything else that you've done.

01:39:35.700 And I feel the same way.

01:39:37.260 I feel like I speak for a lot of people who don't feel as if they can speak.

01:39:41.260 Um, and, uh, and, and I think that's a, that's a very, uh, I don't want to say noble, but it's

01:39:47.720 a very, uh, gratifying, uh, feeling to know that that is occurring.

01:39:54.060 And I really feel like in the world of sports, if outkick didn't exist, nobody would be making

01:39:58.720 the arguments that we make, Megan, regardless of whether you agree or disagree with them.

01:40:02.160 There is no other side.

01:40:03.660 I mean, everybody else is on the opposite side.

01:40:05.860 It's so crazy how woke sports have gotten.

01:40:09.080 It's so upsetting because as you pointed out, it's taking away such a huge pleasure for millions

01:40:15.220 of Americans who used it as an escape.

01:40:17.540 And now they can't escape anywhere.

01:40:19.620 Now it's kneeling before the game and it's messages on the jerseys and all across the basketball

01:40:24.540 court.

01:40:25.160 And the, you can't even go to the game now because they've moved it from your city for

01:40:28.600 a law.

01:40:29.020 That's nowhere near as restrictive as others.

01:40:31.040 Megan, you can't even, you can't even watch it used to be beer companies tried to entertain

01:40:34.960 you.

01:40:35.320 Right.

01:40:35.560 Like, uh, you know, they were like, Hey, we're going to have two good looking, remember

01:40:39.700 the Coors like twin girls, like that they would say, and twins, like you go back and

01:40:44.100 watch like old school beer commercials used to make you laugh.

01:40:46.920 Now you watch a football game and halfway through, you know, like in addition to all of the messages

01:40:51.980 that are coming out, you know, political during the game, like every commercial is some woke

01:40:56.620 screed about, you know, like the energizer, like the energizer bunny doesn't exist anymore.

01:41:00.840 It's like they, SNL, I remember how to skit, like making fun of woke divism.

01:41:05.140 It's really taken over.

01:41:06.300 Like you can't watch a television commercial now.

01:41:09.180 No, it's true.

01:41:10.160 It, it, it is everywhere and it's depressing.

01:41:13.540 And in sports, like I, how did it happen?

01:41:16.600 Did it just creep up on us?

01:41:18.300 I mean, I, I realized that sports, there's a, there's a large African American population.

01:41:22.420 So once people started to get, you know, more committed to social justice causes and so

01:41:27.440 on and own them openly.

01:41:28.500 And then the pressure ramped up for everybody to sort of say, yes, I'm a social justice warrior.

01:41:32.660 I think not fully understanding what you're saying when you're saying that we saw more

01:41:37.040 of it, but like, how did ESPN go woke?

01:41:40.920 It's, it's such a fascinating question.

01:41:42.500 One, and, and I don't think this gets enough attention, the sports media, you know, a lot

01:41:47.260 of discussion I think goes around the political media, but Fox news exists, right?

01:41:51.940 Like there is a Fox news for media in general, as it pertains to politics and just covering

01:41:57.660 of the news, sports media is basically MSNBC, even further left wing.

01:42:04.280 The journalists who cover sports are insanely left wing.

01:42:08.940 And so I believe what happened, uh, is they started to recognize that athletes were saying

01:42:15.120 things that they agreed with.

01:42:16.920 And so they elevated those athletes, which further encouraged those athletes to speak

01:42:22.980 out.

01:42:23.480 So the Colin Kaepernick's, the LeBron James's coaches to like Greg Popovich and Steve Kerr,

01:42:29.800 they get almost universal praise from the sports media whenever they would come out and say something

01:42:36.760 negative about Donald Trump or something bad about America.

01:42:39.820 Um, and so those sports media members may not be able to share their exact feelings, but

01:42:47.700 they can make sure that the stories that show up on the front page of an ESPN.com or on a

01:42:53.960 sports center, validate the opinions of the athletes that have the most left wing opinions, which

01:43:00.780 is how, you know, Megan Rapinoe, uh, and Colin Kaepernick and LeBron James come to exist is they

01:43:07.200 are being praised for those opinions, which encourages them to do it more.

01:43:10.800 Uh, and I also think that there was a sort of, I think the Kaepernick kneeling put everything

01:43:20.240 on steroids, right?

01:43:22.080 Um, and from there, it just, it is spiraled into a universe where I think ultimately what

01:43:30.500 happened is it used to be somebody scores and your team wins.

01:43:33.500 Like you can turn around and give a high five, you don't think about the race, gender, ethnicity,

01:43:37.160 religion, or sexuality, certainly of somebody who's rooting for your same team.

01:43:42.080 Now I think it's almost inescapable.

01:43:43.860 And, and the argument I made the moment Colin Kaepernick started to kneel, uh, Megan, which

01:43:48.260 I think is a good one.

01:43:49.000 And very few people picked up on like, what is the reaction?

01:43:52.500 So many people wanted to say, oh, I support his first amendment rights, whatever they may

01:43:55.540 be for his protest.

01:43:57.660 Imagine the reaction.

01:43:58.540 If he had taken a knee during the national anthem to protest gay marriage being legal, right?

01:44:03.500 As a member of the San Francisco 49ers, immediately the same people that are like, it's so great

01:44:09.500 that he's speaking out and using his first amendment, right?

01:44:11.820 Uh, opinions like they would say he shouldn't be allowed to play in the NFL anymore.

01:44:17.460 Right.

01:44:17.920 And that would actually make sense because if you're kneeling during the national anthem,

01:44:21.140 well, the Supreme court has said that gay marriage is legal, by the way, I'm fine with

01:44:24.800 it.

01:44:24.940 Right.

01:44:25.120 Like, it's not like I'm like some social, you know, like I'm not driven insane by that

01:44:29.300 or whatever.

01:44:30.040 I'm not, I don't think a culture warrior in many of the traditional, uh, concept of

01:44:34.600 like what people fight about, but my opinion would have been the same.

01:44:38.840 And by the way, you could say the same thing if he had taken a knee because he opposes, uh,

01:44:42.560 you know, gun control or is for gun control or is pro choice or is, uh, you know, like,

01:44:47.200 uh, you know, and whatever it is, right.

01:44:48.740 It would all be bad because those are issues that immediately divide us.

01:44:54.500 Whereas loving sports is something that brings us together.

01:44:58.120 And that's what I think is the worst, which is why my most recent book was called Republicans

01:45:03.180 by sneakers too, which was a Michael Jordan quote.

01:45:06.520 Uh, and he admitted that he said it, uh, when people said, Hey, how come you're not super

01:45:10.880 political?

01:45:11.340 And Michael Jordan shoes and Michael Jordan as an athlete to this day are still wild,

01:45:16.620 wildly popular.

01:45:17.600 Tiger Woods followed his lead.

01:45:19.660 And now there's an entire group of athletes that want to, you know, try to be LeBron James.

01:45:24.200 And my argument has been LeBron James became LeBron James as a marketing tactic because he

01:45:29.780 realized he was never going to be as popular as Michael Jordan.

01:45:32.560 So he's pivoted and tried to become an activist so that that prolongs his relevance once his, uh,

01:45:40.020 athletic career is over.

01:45:41.800 So a couple of points, number one, Colin Kaepernick is such a hypocrite, you know,

01:45:45.300 tweets about how awful the United States is and capitalism sucks.

01:45:48.680 And we're racist and white supremacist to the core.

01:45:50.960 Meanwhile, he's like, celebrate my new Nike deal with me.

01:45:53.640 Right.

01:45:54.080 He's making, he's making so much bank.

01:45:56.220 No one has ever made more money off of saying how awful America is than Colin Kaepernick.

01:46:02.000 And by the way, to the point about China earlier, there's no Chinese version of Colin Kaepernick.

01:46:06.160 They disappear you, right?

01:46:07.620 Like you aren't allowed to, not only do you not become wealthy, like you and your family

01:46:11.280 cease to exist as free citizens.

01:46:13.880 That's right.

01:46:14.200 Just, just ask Mr. Yee who did business with our, back to our friend Hunter.

01:46:18.000 Maybe he's in Pornhub right now.

01:46:19.920 Maybe he wound up there, but no, you're right.

01:46:22.460 A hundred percent.

01:46:22.980 So he's a, he's a hypocrite.

01:46:25.340 And I will say, you know, I like people who, like, I would say my Fox news fans who know

01:46:30.700 me, they don't like the protesting at the football game.

01:46:33.040 They certainly don't like kneeling in the national anthem.

01:46:34.700 And I don't like it either.

01:46:36.380 I wish they weren't doing it, but I, I have from the beginning.

01:46:38.940 And I said this when I was on NBC at the time, I do support their right to do it.

01:46:42.680 I, and then I support the right of the people to walk the hell out of there and not support

01:46:46.260 them if that's how they feel.

01:46:47.720 But I felt the same about the guy who wouldn't bake the gay wedding cake in Washington state.

01:46:52.740 And, and he won his case.

01:46:53.900 You know, it's like, it's not the same as refusing to do business with gay people entirely.

01:46:57.960 Baking a wedding cake is different.

01:46:59.640 So you're right to point out the hypocrisy at your, your commitment to free speech,

01:47:02.920 to protest, to the ability to have individual thoughts and feelings about a matter and express

01:47:07.160 them.

01:47:07.820 It has to be respected no matter what the cause is.

01:47:11.580 If that's what's, that's what makes you truly American and understanding the American

01:47:15.300 ideal, right?

01:47:16.300 You got it.

01:47:16.700 It has to be applied universally.

01:47:19.600 And the other analogy I love, Megan, is like, imagine, take it.

01:47:22.940 So Colin Kaepernick protested in uniform at work.

01:47:25.640 I think that's in general, a bad idea.

01:47:28.140 Imagine like, take it outside of the world of athletics.

01:47:30.820 If you walked into McDonald's and you walked up to McDonald's and you said, Hey, I'd like

01:47:35.640 to get a big Mac.

01:47:36.440 And the cashier said, well, meat is murder.

01:47:39.120 Why don't you get a salad instead?

01:47:40.740 She would get fired or he would get fired.

01:47:42.820 Right.

01:47:43.080 And nobody would be like, well, that, that cashier believes that meat is murder.

01:47:47.620 It's important for them to be able to share their opinion in uniform at work.

01:47:51.920 Everybody would be like, uh, you work at McDonald's.

01:47:54.480 Like people want a hamburger, like give them a hamburger.

01:47:57.080 Colin Kaepernick works in football.

01:47:59.060 People want football, give them football.

01:48:00.900 I don't think, and it doesn't matter about the politics.

01:48:03.040 I just think from a business perspective, it's a bad example.

01:48:06.800 And the other analogy, I'm like, yeah, but if you drive a truck, uh, for UPS or FedEx,

01:48:12.260 if you put a Trump sticker or a Biden sticker on the FedEx or the, uh, UPS truck, that's not

01:48:19.440 allowed, right?

01:48:20.040 Like that's a really bad idea, but if you pull up to get into your business, uh, get

01:48:25.560 into the truck that you drive and you've got a bumper sticker on your car, that's different,

01:48:29.520 right?

01:48:29.720 Like to me in uniform at work, unless you are in a directly political job, I don't want

01:48:35.860 any of my employees.

01:48:36.980 If I have a business that's forward facing, whether it's McDonald's or the San Francisco

01:48:41.460 49ers in uniform at work, alienating any of my audience.

01:48:46.300 That's a very good point.

01:48:47.560 And we're seeing it in schools too, right?

01:48:49.320 Like you, you couldn't wear a MAGA shirt in a school right now.

01:48:53.180 They would definitely crack down on you and, and, but you can wear a BLM shirt.

01:48:56.500 No problem.

01:48:57.400 Right.

01:48:57.560 That's in the spring when, when everything was, was breaking with George Floyd and so

01:49:02.300 on.

01:49:02.560 And now of course we're learning so many new facts about the George Floyd case, which

01:49:05.800 just proves, which is fascinating.

01:49:07.160 How much of that have you watched, by the way?

01:49:09.120 A lot.

01:49:09.700 We've been covering it in depth.

01:49:11.040 There were teachers who on all these Zooms, I saw some of this online and I experienced some

01:49:15.380 of it too, to be honest, teachers who were teaching the class virtually with a BLM, uh,

01:49:20.000 background, virtual background that just said BLM.

01:49:22.220 It's like, you don't know what you're supporting and you don't know who you're alienating.

01:49:26.220 And you don't know, I remember saying at the time, sending notes to my kids' school

01:49:29.140 saying, um, my kids have, uh, an uncle who is a police officer and I expect you to respect

01:49:36.060 that in whatever you say in these classes, right?

01:49:39.140 I don't want to hear messages that degrade police writ large because you're taking up some

01:49:45.820 political cause.

01:49:46.580 That's not your job, right?

01:49:48.480 This is the whole thing is so.

01:49:50.020 And also, by the way, it's amazing how quickly that's spinning back with, as you know, and

01:49:55.880 anybody who has a functional brain knew when you denigrate police officers, what happens?

01:50:00.920 The murder rate skyrockets.

01:50:02.420 Who are most of the people who are victims of murder?

01:50:05.460 Minorities in inner city neighborhoods, right?

01:50:07.420 That's the reality of what the data reflects.

01:50:09.740 And the most recent number I saw was that what murders in 34 biggest cities, I believe were

01:50:14.680 up 30% in 2020.

01:50:16.500 One of the biggest increases in American history.

01:50:19.480 When you delegitimize the police, what do you do?

01:50:22.440 You legitimize the criminal element.

01:50:24.380 That's the natural reality, whether people want to recognize it or not.

01:50:27.400 And that criminal element takes advantage of a police that doesn't have the same moral

01:50:31.480 legitimacy to take advantage of their communities.

01:50:34.500 And that's why the murder rate skyrockets.

01:50:36.420 I mean, this is the defund the police argument to me.

01:50:39.140 And the fact that the media supported it is another example of just a fund.

01:50:44.660 We did the exact opposite to what we should have done.

01:50:47.280 Right.

01:50:47.560 And that's what's so frustrating to me about so many of these stories.

01:50:50.780 And you can predict exactly how they're going to end, which is what?

01:50:53.520 With the refund, the police movement.

01:50:55.340 Where people are like, wait a minute.

01:50:56.360 Yes, like we saw in Minneapolis.

01:50:56.760 We need police.

01:50:57.900 Yes.

01:50:58.460 Yes.

01:50:59.020 Well, it underscores the point I was trying to raise earlier, too, which is like, I understand

01:51:03.060 that there is a narrative out there that it is dangerous just to be a black man in America

01:51:07.900 if you come into the presence of police.

01:51:09.860 I don't agree with that.

01:51:10.920 But I understand that's a narrative.

01:51:12.600 It's not true.

01:51:12.700 Based on the data.

01:51:13.360 It's not true.

01:51:14.260 It isn't.

01:51:14.900 But I understand that there's that that's the narrative.

01:51:17.620 But what about and so it's like against police, defund police, remove police.

01:51:22.540 Doesn't anybody care about the black women in these communities who have said every poll

01:51:27.840 says they don't want the police taken away like they are the ones who get victimized and

01:51:33.320 black men, too, frankly, a black black people as as a whole.

01:51:36.940 Every do not support removing police.

01:51:39.480 It's like 80 percent of people don't want to defund the police.

01:51:42.600 It's not a racial gap, right?

01:51:44.520 White, black, Asian, Hispanic.

01:51:45.700 It's everybody.

01:51:47.240 And what I always like to respond, you know, when people say like, oh, there's a lot of

01:51:52.240 racism in policing.

01:51:53.960 How come no one ever points out that there would be a lot of sexism in policing, too,

01:51:58.320 right?

01:51:58.520 Like women get arrested a lot less than men.

01:52:01.300 Is that because police are sexist or is it because police in general are going after

01:52:06.960 people who are breaking the law, men overwhelmingly?

01:52:11.400 And I'm obviously a man.

01:52:13.220 We break the law way more than women do, and we frequently break the law way more violently

01:52:17.640 than women do.

01:52:18.480 It's not sexist that 90 some odd percent of people who are arrested are male, right?

01:52:23.100 That's what's so frustrating is when you look at the data and we have such an anecdote-driven

01:52:29.760 media now, whatever you believe, whatever you believe, there is a video on the internet

01:52:36.580 that can support it.

01:52:37.960 It doesn't matter what it is.

01:52:38.860 It can be as outlandish as you can possibly imagine.

01:52:41.760 There is a viral video that you can use to justify your belief.

01:52:45.240 It doesn't mean that it's representative.

01:52:46.720 It doesn't mean that it's part of a larger contextual problem.

01:52:49.940 But it can be an individual incident, and to me, the George Floyd case represented that

01:52:55.640 on steroids because it is that tangible moment all on video that, for many people, they believe

01:53:04.280 crystallized a larger issue.

01:53:05.860 I don't believe the data reflects that that larger issue is actually there, but that video

01:53:12.340 allows the argument to be made.

01:53:14.620 And the narrative, well, I mean, the tape is the tape, but even what we think we're seeing

01:53:19.040 in that tape, that the truth is coming out, that the different angles that you see with

01:53:23.160 the body cams show a different story, and certainly everything we're learning about George Floyd.

01:53:26.800 Well, even the fuller version.

01:53:27.680 You know, the fact that, I mean, I think it's such a fascinating case on so many different

01:53:32.240 levels.

01:53:33.400 But the bigger issue to me, regardless of what happens with the George Floyd case, is we

01:53:38.660 as a society are quick to use non-representative anecdotal evidence as if it is representative

01:53:47.400 of a larger contextual problem that happens all the time, when in reality, often what

01:53:53.600 goes viral on the internet is going viral because it is so uncommon, not because it is

01:54:00.460 so common.

01:54:01.140 And I think a lot of people miss that.

01:54:03.320 Well, also because it feeds the narrative, right?

01:54:05.040 Like during an election year, George Floyd and Derek Chauvin, every time is going to

01:54:10.800 be an issue.

01:54:11.640 And believe me, there have been killings of black men by white cops since George Floyd

01:54:16.760 that don't get anywhere near the publicity.

01:54:18.460 Why?

01:54:18.860 Because it's not an election year.

01:54:20.240 That's sadly the truth.

01:54:22.840 The percentages reflect that I think, and again, I don't have the data right in front of me,

01:54:26.860 but I've written about this, that I believe it's 74% of all people shot and killed by police

01:54:32.180 are white, Asian, or Hispanic.

01:54:33.440 74%, nearly three out of four.

01:54:37.180 Now, the black population is around 12 or 13%, so it is more common.

01:54:41.300 But again, it goes to the numbers of arrest and interaction with police.

01:54:46.780 Women almost never get shot by police.

01:54:48.700 It's not because police are sexist.

01:54:50.120 It's because the number of crimes committed by women is time.

01:54:52.980 60% of violent crime in the major cities is committed by African-American men.

01:54:56.700 So, I mean, that's just the truth.

01:54:58.400 We have to wrestle with it.

01:54:59.400 We can talk all day long about why, but that is a fact, and that is why they have more

01:55:03.120 interactions with police.

01:55:03.840 And frankly, Megan, most people won't even share that fact because they're afraid of

01:55:06.880 getting called racist by just sharing the fact, right?

01:55:09.480 I know.

01:55:10.040 I was like, well, I don't care what you call me.

01:55:11.400 It's fine.

01:55:11.760 I'm going to speak the truth.

01:55:12.740 And that's one great liberating fact of having been called everything.

01:55:16.760 Now, listen, I know I've been very generous with your time, but I do have to ask you about

01:55:20.300 Outkick before I let you go.

01:55:21.960 So I love it.

01:55:22.860 I love what you're doing.

01:55:23.700 I had Ben Shapiro on recently and he mentioned you as like something he was interested in

01:55:30.820 in terms of the future of The Daily Wire.

01:55:32.700 And, you know, The Daily Wire is very successful and Ben is actively trying to create different

01:55:37.380 lanes for people who push back against mainstream narratives.

01:55:41.420 And I wonder if you can shed any light on the possibility of that partnership.

01:55:46.440 Well, so I did Candace Owens, who I think is super talented.

01:55:51.680 I did her show.

01:55:53.020 Ben is super smart and fearless.

01:55:56.380 And I don't know about you, Megan, but as I have aged, the two things, the two qualities

01:56:01.260 that I respect the most are, and I always respected intelligence, but fearlessness is so

01:56:09.040 high on my list of qualities that I respect in any person.

01:56:12.600 Um, and there are relatively few people who are fearless.

01:56:16.260 Uh, I think you are fearless.

01:56:17.780 I think Ben is.

01:56:19.060 Um, and one of the things that we try to do at Outkick is be fearless.

01:56:22.800 And that's what I tell our writers.

01:56:25.060 That's what I tell our staff.

01:56:26.240 Like, you know, we want to be smart, original, funny, and authentic.

01:56:29.400 Uh, but undergirding all that needs to be fearlessness because most people in media are

01:56:33.720 not fearless today.

01:56:34.980 Um, and so as Outkick has grown, yeah, I just, as Outkick has grown, um, we're having conversations.

01:56:41.720 One of the things like I kind of hinted at with the Facebook, one of the things that

01:56:45.400 I worry about candidly is if your ability to reach your audience gets turned off, like

01:56:52.500 after the parlor mess and after the, uh, uh, you know, the banning of Donald Trump and

01:56:57.760 everything else, I went on Twitter and I said, Hey, what I would hope is if you like what

01:57:03.220 we do at Outkick, that you just add us as one of the websites that you go visit every

01:57:07.740 day, regardless, like I may or may not post the link that you like, but I wish you would

01:57:12.380 come directly to us every single day.

01:57:15.100 And one of the things that I worry about and think about all the time, and it honestly sometimes

01:57:19.840 keeps me up at night, there are millions and millions of people, and I'm sure you feel

01:57:23.900 the same way, Megan, that would love your content that have no idea you exist.

01:57:28.840 Right.

01:57:29.200 And I think they, I think they know I exist, but they may not, they may not know the podcast

01:57:34.600 exists.

01:57:35.600 I, I even, even I, I, I bet that that is not even true.

01:57:39.940 I bet that there are, so reaching that audience, I think about so much.

01:57:44.820 And if big tech has the ability to cut off your ability to reach that audience, I think

01:57:50.480 you need as big and as strong and as vibrant of partnerships as you can possibly have.

01:57:55.400 So what exactly that looks like going forward for OutKick, I'm not sure, but that is something

01:58:01.020 that I spend a lot of time thinking about.

01:58:03.520 You know, I think we need jet fuel, right?

01:58:05.500 In order to influence as many people as we possibly can.

01:58:09.340 And I think the Daily Wire, I think, I think there are a lot of different brands out there

01:58:14.600 that are doing a good job that fortunately would correspond with what we do.

01:58:19.980 And there could be some, some sort of ways to work together going forward.

01:58:25.140 I guess is an easy way to put it.

01:58:27.340 Well, I'm rooting for it because I think I'm loving Ben's mission and his partner, Jeremy

01:58:31.680 Boring.

01:58:32.220 He's amazing too.

01:58:33.160 And I just, they're based here in Nashville where we are.

01:58:35.440 That's right.

01:58:36.040 So they moved recently from LA.

01:58:38.380 Yeah.

01:58:38.880 The stronger the coalition, the more strength we have.

01:58:43.280 2022 and 2024 are going to be masked.

01:58:47.160 Because I think I told you this before, I think without COVID, I think that Donald Trump

01:58:51.240 would have destroyed Joe Biden.

01:58:53.320 Oh, 100%.

01:58:53.800 I mean, I think it would have been a destruction.

01:58:56.500 Bloodbath.

01:58:57.060 And sometimes getting, losing is constructive because it makes you realize it's like a sporting

01:59:02.100 event.

01:59:02.820 You have to go back and redo a new game plan because the one that you were executing wasn't

01:59:06.660 working.

01:59:07.040 And I think what Democrats realized or would have realized if they had gotten destroyed

01:59:11.940 was identity politics and cancel culture is not the way to win.

01:59:16.600 Unfortunately, I think with winning with Joe Biden, what has happened is a lot of people

01:59:20.380 said, oh, identity politics, cancel culture, it'll get better without Trump.

01:59:24.200 I think you've seen it's gotten worse.

01:59:26.180 And so I think that's the biggest, those are the two twin pillars of evil I legitimately

01:59:30.320 believe exist in America today.

01:59:32.040 And I think they have to be defeated.

01:59:33.920 And I think that's a battle we're in right now.

01:59:37.040 I want you to tell your wife I'm in the 35%.

01:59:40.640 She will listen to this.

01:59:44.400 She's a fan.

01:59:45.240 So she drives around in her car and listens to a lot of podcasts.

01:59:48.540 She is a fan of your show.

01:59:50.260 So that will potentially help to alleviate her concerns.

01:59:53.720 But look, we met at Vanderbilt Law School.

01:59:55.840 She is super smart, smarter than me.

01:59:58.540 And she just, I think sometimes just rolls her eyes at the fact, like she says all the

02:00:03.360 time, you can't say that on the radio.

02:00:05.020 So because I don't think the conversations that you would hear on my radio show, or frankly,

02:00:09.440 the conversation that you're hearing right now listening to us, is any different than

02:00:13.560 what I would sound like in my house with her.

02:00:16.240 And she just, I think, lives in fear.

02:00:18.740 I imagine like a lot of spouses do.

02:00:20.340 I bet your husband sometimes sits around and thinks about this.

02:00:22.320 And you've had to go through it, you know, of people coming after me or you or anybody

02:00:27.920 else out there that makes their living.

02:00:30.280 And I imagine it's a challenging position for a spouse to be in because I can control

02:00:35.220 what I do.

02:00:36.220 I can't control what other people do.

02:00:38.840 And certainly she's got to sit back and watch and see some of the feedback.

02:00:42.580 Yeah.

02:00:42.780 And take the shrapnel when it comes to.

02:00:45.020 It's true.

02:00:45.460 Our spouses don't get enough credit for sort of standing shoulder to shoulder and supporting,

02:00:49.620 you know, the mission of free speech and saying controversial things, even if you know they're

02:00:53.740 controversial, they're going to upset some people, but you have to have the temerity

02:00:56.560 to do it.

02:00:57.800 I do think about that with Doug a lot.

02:00:59.780 And I'm very lucky.

02:01:00.820 I wouldn't have had any of it.

02:01:01.940 Well, I would have had some, but I wouldn't have had as much success in my life.

02:01:05.440 I told my mom, Megan.

02:01:06.380 If I didn't have a strong partner.

02:01:07.540 Amen.

02:01:08.020 I told my mom when I first started writing online like 15 years ago, she would get in the

02:01:12.220 comments and fight with people and be like, he's a good dad.

02:01:15.060 He's a good.

02:01:15.700 Yeah.

02:01:15.920 And I was like, mom, you know, like I'm not, you know, our audience is not that big right now,

02:01:19.580 but I was like, you cannot, you know, get in the comments and argue with people.

02:01:23.280 And I think about that in the context of, you know, when people that know you well and

02:01:27.400 that love you and, and, and know you as a full, you know, three-dimensional person, as

02:01:32.520 opposed to whatever caricature exists, which is, I think, true for anybody in public eye,

02:01:37.280 like we all have like 20 foot tall representations that are often an inch deep, right?

02:01:42.860 Like there's not a lot of substance sometimes to the caricature.

02:01:45.500 Um, and I do think that's tough for people who, uh, who, who have to see that caricature

02:01:50.380 and know that it's not representative.

02:01:51.980 And it's just, I mean, sometimes funny.

02:01:53.640 I think about it from my mom's perspective, who obviously like any mom thinks her son or

02:01:57.820 daughter is like the greatest thing on the planet.

02:01:59.800 And then you see him just getting constantly attacked.

02:02:02.420 It is, I think, uh, very humanizing in some ways to think about.

02:02:06.200 It reminds me of after I left NBC, you may recall that, um, there was a bit, a bit of a

02:02:11.160 pile on, on the, on the, on the, on the set of the today show though.

02:02:15.320 I mean, my own colleagues, um, came after me very publicly.

02:02:19.600 Um, it's interesting cause I don't remember them ever going after all the many other people

02:02:23.740 who actually wore blackface on NBC.

02:02:26.780 Yes.

02:02:27.200 Actually.

02:02:27.720 Okay.

02:02:27.980 But they did.

02:02:28.840 And, um, my mom found out that Al Roker owned restaurants in upstate New York, which

02:02:33.420 is where we live.

02:02:34.380 My, you know, grew up and she lives there still.

02:02:36.180 And my mom's like, I'm going to go to that restaurant and I'm going to talk to him.

02:02:40.460 I'm going to tell him how disappointed I am.

02:02:42.620 I'm like, Oh, I don't think so much.

02:02:45.220 I don't, I don't think that's a good idea.

02:02:47.260 That's a vintage mom though.

02:02:48.460 Right?

02:02:48.740 Like that is, um, and you know, and I think one thing, uh, certainly with your story and

02:02:54.700 all of these other stories that are kind of, uh, continue to spiral and grow.

02:02:58.420 So I think that, um, ultimately the American public, uh, as a whole has a great bullshit

02:03:04.220 detector, right?

02:03:05.520 I really do believe that.

02:03:06.800 Yeah.

02:03:07.140 And I think that much of what is being peddled in American media right now is complete bullshit.

02:03:12.240 And I think we are headed for a massive, uh, a massive return and, uh, you know, like

02:03:20.580 swinging back in the other direction, if that makes sense.

02:03:22.940 Um, and I don't know what the exact opposite of bullshit is, uh, but I feel like there is

02:03:27.860 this desperate, um, craving.

02:03:29.540 And I think once COVID is over and you know, the, the fear porn is I've called it like that

02:03:35.080 storyline dissipates.

02:03:36.540 I think a lot of people, it's like, are suddenly going to realize, wait a minute, like much

02:03:42.140 of what we've been told is just not true.

02:03:45.020 And I do think there's going to be a great awakening of sorts.

02:03:48.380 Maybe that's the opposite of bullshit is a great awakening.

02:03:51.400 Um, and I'm hoping that that's going to happen in the next couple of years.

02:03:54.820 Uh, and listening to you, I, uh, McCarthy moment that we basically found ourselves in

02:03:59.300 is going to end.

02:04:00.560 I just thought of the New York post headline for when we officially have herd immunity.

02:04:05.060 It's cover.

02:04:07.360 That's not bad.

02:04:08.340 It's not bad.

02:04:08.940 It's not bad.

02:04:09.840 Listen, thank you for, for fighting the good fight and having, having the courage of which

02:04:13.980 you speak.

02:04:14.320 Cause I I've seen you live it.

02:04:15.420 It's great to talk to you, Clay.

02:04:16.700 Hey, Megan, whenever we, uh, end up in the same city, you need to grab a beer.

02:04:19.720 I'd like to get our spouses together too.

02:04:21.100 I'm sure they could have a good conversation at our expense.

02:04:24.940 You're on.

02:04:26.040 See you soon.

02:04:26.220 All right.

02:04:26.540 Sounds good.

02:04:27.020 I appreciate it.

02:04:31.260 Don't forget to tune into the show on Wednesday because we're going to

02:04:34.940 round back to COVID.

02:04:36.680 And we're going to talk to, as I mentioned, uh, Dr. Marty McCary, who has been out there

02:04:42.340 about whether we've achieved herd immunity.

02:04:44.640 Are we there yet?

02:04:45.240 He said it would happen in April.

02:04:46.580 Are we there yet?

02:04:47.320 Like the kids say in the back of the car.

02:04:49.100 Uh, we'll find out and we'll find out what he thinks about if not now, then when.

02:04:53.600 Uh, and we're also going to be joined by Josh Rogan, who's a columnist at the Washington

02:04:56.940 Post who doesn't really sound like our Washington Post columnist.

02:05:00.080 He's been writing pretty bravely about COVID and whether this thing was actually released

02:05:06.160 from a Wuhan lab.

02:05:08.080 So he's got real answers for us on that.

02:05:10.320 And he is also coming on.

02:05:12.180 Don't miss those guys.

02:05:13.200 That's next show, uh, on Wednesday.

02:05:15.400 So in the meantime, go ahead and subscribe.

02:05:16.680 So you don't miss it.

02:05:17.760 Download, rate, and review.

02:05:19.480 I'll take you five stars.

02:05:20.540 Thank you very much.

02:05:21.860 And, uh, would love a review telling me what you thought of today's episode.

02:05:25.700 And Clay, I'm a big fan, as you can tell.

02:05:27.760 All right, we'll see you Wednesday.

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02:05:57.760 Beat, beat, beatboxing actually has hidden health benefits.

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02:06:16.840 You

The Megyn Kelly Show - April 12, 2021

Clay Travis on American Sports and China, Hunter Biden, and Dealing with Bullies ｜ Ep. 88

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