The Megyn Kelly Show - CNN CEO's Shock Firing, and Trans Ideology in Schools and Sports, with Peachy Keenan, Steve Krakauer and More

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00:01:01.380 Welcome to The Megyn Kelly Show.

00:01:03.280 Your home for open, honest, and provocative conversations.

00:01:06.780 Hey, everyone. I'm Megyn Kelly. Welcome to The Megyn Kelly Show.

00:01:16.140 Today, we've got a big show for you.

00:01:17.800 We're going to hear from two former female high school track athletes out of Connecticut

00:01:22.680 who are suing after they were forced to compete against biological males.

00:01:27.200 We first brought you this case right after the podcast first launched, and I mentioned it

00:01:32.000 in my talking points the other day on why I'm done with the gender madness.

00:01:36.580 Now these two young women have seen their case through a lot of trials and tribulations.

00:01:41.200 So far, they're losing, but the Second Circuit full court of appeals has agreed to hear the

00:01:48.220 case, and that's a glimmer of hope. We'll get into it.

00:01:52.300 Then we're going to be joined by one of my favorite Twitter follows, Peachy Keenan, as Pride Month

00:01:58.260 goes into overdrive. But we begin with the way forward for CNN and the breaking news out of that

00:02:05.100 network. That is the subject of today's memo. Less than five days after a devastating piece on CNN

00:02:11.000 chief Chris Licht appeared in the Atlantic, Licht is officially out at the network. His boss,

00:02:17.620 David Zaslav, the very guy who promised the Atlantic reporter an interview in which he was

00:02:22.040 expected to support Chris Licht and say glowing things about him, only to then back out of it

00:02:26.780 altogether, now tells the CNN newsroom, Licht tried, but thanks to a myriad of problems, he's out.

00:02:33.640 So much for Licht's assurance to the Atlantic that David Zaslav has my back, like any media

00:02:41.360 executive. He did until he didn't. It's a disgusting industry. It's how it works. The problem for Chris

00:02:48.880 Licht was not entirely his vision or that of CNN's new owner, Warner Brothers Discovery, to remake CNN

00:02:56.600 into a more fair and balanced network. The problem was one of ego, style, and approach. Licht inspired

00:03:03.540 as far as I can tell, but no one. He was not adept at building relationships at all. He seems to be a

00:03:10.220 man with a fragile ego who obsesses over press coverage, not of the news, but of himself. He came

00:03:15.780 in with a lot of swagger on the heels of a beloved leader being quickly ousted. Yes, Jeff Zucker was

00:03:21.600 beloved, biased and responsible for ruining the network, but he was beloved. That situation required

00:03:29.080 some tact and perhaps some handholding. And Licht seemed incapable of either. Focused more on his

00:03:35.880 newly svelte machine-like body, that's a quote from him, and typing his name into Google than on

00:03:43.680 earning the respect of his staff. Which leaves the question, can anyone turn CNN around? The problems

00:03:51.900 Licht was trying to solve are very real, whether CNNers want to admit it or not. CNN has lost the

00:03:58.840 trust of its one-time large audience. Its brand has changed from most trusted to most pathetic.

00:04:05.080 Jim Acosta and his enormous ego, Breonna Keillard and her sneering coverage of anything Trump-related,

00:04:11.860 Alison Camerata and her snide judgments, Christiane Amanpour and her smug elitism.

00:04:17.120 Even formerly benign anchors like Anderson Cooper and Wolf Blitzer are now more associated with the

00:04:22.180 resistance than with straight news journalism. The soul-searching, tearful meltdown post-Trump Town

00:04:29.140 Hall is just the latest example of how far left the network has gone. Are we in the news business

00:04:36.920 or aren't we, folks? So what now? Can anyone rebuild this brand into, if not a Sterling name,

00:04:44.160 than at least an acceptable one? Zucker tried to make CNN into MSNBC by design. He saw no market for

00:04:52.660 a nonpartisan news network. In doing so, he attracted many liberal viewers who already had

00:04:58.620 and have their choice between virtually every network save Fox and Newsmax. But he sacrificed

00:05:04.640 CNN's appeal to its centrist audience, never mind any right-leaning viewers who did not consider

00:05:09.840 themselves, never Trumpers. Chris Licht tried to undo that bias, but with the same anchors and the

00:05:17.620 same audience who were already hooked on the crack cocaine of hating Donald Trump. No wonder it didn't

00:05:23.700 work and the channel's ratings are now in the toilet. Seriously, they are regularly losing to Newsmax,

00:05:29.900 which is in some 20 to 25 million fewer homes than CNN, with probably one one-thousandth the budget.

00:05:38.640 Discovery Time Warner bought this asset, reportedly wanting to make it more fair, less biased,

00:05:46.660 less hateful toward Republicans and the right, but not disdainful of the left either. You know,

00:05:52.820 the way CNN used to be. It really did used to be that way. I used to watch it while I was on Fox.

00:05:57.500 That's going to take time. A lot of it. Zaslav seems to know that. In March, he spoke to the CNN

00:06:04.020 newsroom acknowledging what Jeff Zucker had done, that he had gone hard partisan. And while that

00:06:09.240 brought some more viewers in, Zaslav reportedly said, it's not what I came here to do. Even saying

00:06:15.520 as they turned this ship around, quote, ratings be damned. And they were. So can CNN be salvaged?

00:06:23.760 The hope is clearly that long term, they will win enough audience back from the middle and the right

00:06:28.580 to make CNN a profit leader again. Change out the far left audience. But they forgot the other part

00:06:35.960 of the formula. The workforce must change as well. The ones who cost the network its reputation in the

00:06:42.440 first place. The far left producers deciding on CNN's online and show content. Their influence is

00:06:49.680 enormous and extraordinarily brand damaging. Roger Ailes hired plenty of lefties. News leans left,

00:06:57.820 especially straight out of journalism school. But they had to be open to a different way of covering

00:07:02.080 the news or they would not be hired there. CNN has activists who will never embrace a fair and balanced

00:07:10.000 mission. Each one of them should be rooted out and fired. That is the only way. And then there's the

00:07:16.460 talent. Tolerable as secret lefties who had their own political views, but were at least

00:07:22.060 generally respectful to the other half of the country while on the air. They were coaxed, goaded

00:07:27.220 and encouraged by Jeff Zucker into letting their leftist flags fly during Trump. They laughed at his

00:07:34.220 voters, mocked at them, derided them. The examples are legion. They spat all over everything from gun rights

00:07:40.660 to pro-life beliefs, to voters' questions about the fairness of elections, to their doubts about the

00:07:44.540 COVID hysteria, not to mention the Black Lives Matter abuses, gender insanity, and sexualization

00:07:49.320 of children in school. None of that, none of it got a fair shake on CNN under Jeff Zucker or since.

00:07:55.800 Why? Because no one kept their hands at 10 and 2 on the steering wheel and too few internally had a

00:08:02.680 basic instinct to be fair. If I were David Zaslav, I'd be pulling an Elon Musk. I'd fire a lot of people,

00:08:12.860 a lot of people, on air and off. Anyone whose views did not align with the new mission of

00:08:19.100 unbiased news would be given a severance package and shown the door. CNN is well known to be one

00:08:24.620 of the most grossly overstaffed media companies in the business to begin with. They can take a massive

00:08:28.760 staffing cut, trust me, and they will be just fine. Remember when Netflix was getting pulled to the far

00:08:34.760 left and staffers wanted the bosses to terminate their deal with Dave Chappelle? It took absurd demands

00:08:40.520 like that to make those in charge finally say, uh, no, no, we will platform people of all views. And if

00:08:48.460 you don't like it, there's the way out. The Wall Street Journal went through this too. In July of 2020,

00:08:54.940 280 of its staffers, this is a more right-leaning publication, 280 of its staffers openly demanded

00:09:01.660 changes to its opinion pages after pieces appeared that they found objectionable. Pieces from people

00:09:06.600 like, oh, Vice President Mike Pence on COVID and Heather McDonald on the left's lies about systemic

00:09:13.640 racism. The company refused to be cowed, telling the whiners it would not bow to cancel culture and

00:09:21.440 that these staffers were free to work elsewhere, adding, quote, the anxieties of the staff are not

00:09:27.100 our responsibility. Pitch perfect. CNN, it's your only choice. The anchors and reporters who have

00:09:35.080 alienated the viewers, you are trying to win back, need to go. Firing Don Lemon, Chris Cuomo,

00:09:41.480 and Brian Stelter was a start, but I'm afraid the problem went well beyond that. And so must the

00:09:46.520 solution. You're going to have to say goodbye to still more talent and many who work behind the

00:09:51.700 scenes. I have nothing personal against these folks, but they sacrificed their credibility during

00:09:56.800 the Trump era and that of their network. And there is a price to be paid for that. It is the only way

00:10:02.000 forward. The rub of all this is it may not work. I'm not at all sure CNN is savable, but this is

00:10:10.260 its only chance. And the Chris Licht replacement needs to not only be mission focused, a term Licht

00:10:17.560 was apparently fond of per the Atlantic, which is ironic since he apparently failed to share that

00:10:23.200 mission with the staff who were reportedly blindsided to read about it in the Atlantic,

00:10:26.460 but also someone who knows how to lead. Not everyone understands that to maintain the authority

00:10:35.780 of a boss and also has a proven record of inspiring people to follow him or her to that person who has

00:10:45.580 not yet been chosen. Lots of luck. You're going to need it here to discuss it. All is the executive

00:10:53.120 producer of the Megyn Kelly show. Steve Krakauer, who is also a media watcher, has a media newsletter

00:10:59.600 called Fourth Watch, where he keeps an eye on people in our business and what they're doing

00:11:04.300 mostly wrong. Steve. Okay. So where do you stand on it? The breaking news this morning. Chris Licht is

00:11:11.160 out. It's on some level shocking to me, although maybe it shouldn't be. You know, the last time I was

00:11:17.840 on here talking with you about a big media story, it was April 24th and Tucker Carlson getting the axe

00:11:23.940 on a Monday morning in a shocking way. That was really shocking. You know, this one, I think the

00:11:28.800 writing's been on the wall in a lot of ways about this. I think that we've seen the leaks against Chris

00:11:35.420 Licht from inside that newsroom, from as far as we can understand, very prominent people from anchors and

00:11:41.120 behind the scenes executives. That's been going on for close to the entirety of his time at the network.

00:11:46.880 So almost a year that this has been going on, leaking to people like Dylan Byers and the New

00:11:51.400 York Times and elsewhere. More recently, obviously, in the wake of this, really, I think the straw that

00:11:57.620 broke the camel's back Atlantic story, it's been getting louder. And so perhaps it was inevitable

00:12:02.300 and certainly felt that way to a lot of people that I talked to after the Atlantic piece published.

00:12:07.400 It was just a matter of when, not if, he was going to be out at some point. So this was,

00:12:12.800 it was fast. And that was a little bit shocking on my end. But I will say this, look, I know Chris

00:12:18.240 Licht. I've known him for a long time. We've had our ups and downs. I've written about in Fourth Watch

00:12:22.600 how he once blocked me on Twitter because he didn't like something I said. We've gotten past that.

00:12:26.820 And like you, I think that the mission that Chris talked about in that Atlantic piece and has

00:12:32.460 a little bit publicly, that was a mission that I support. And I think that is the right move for CNN.

00:12:39.000 It's frankly the only move for CNN. And we can get into why that I believe that establishing CNN as a

00:12:46.120 trustworthy source of objective news is much more important than the day-to-day ratings that happen

00:12:51.120 on that network, even from a business perspective, you know, from what happens with cable providers,

00:12:55.880 they need to make themselves boring old CNN that people just trust again. That is, that is truly a

00:13:01.680 strong mission, not just for CNN, the business, but I think for America, you know, I don't know not to

00:13:05.980 be too, you know, big, big picture about it, but I do think that we need strong news like CNN used to

00:13:11.420 be, at least what they strive to be. And they, they just completely went away from that. So I'm

00:13:16.580 disappointed in that. But the only solace I would say that I feel right now is also that David Zaslav

00:13:21.400 is still there. John Malone, who I know people have talked about, he's still there. Discovery is

00:13:26.640 running the show and they want that CNN still, even if it's not with Chris Licht.

00:13:30.940 Right. So my take, it seems to be the same as yours, which is the mission is a good one. The

00:13:37.420 leader they chose turned out not to be, he was not the right man for the job. He did. I think his ego

00:13:42.080 really ruined his chances. He lasted 13 months. And if you read that Atlantic piece, it makes clear

00:13:46.780 it was his ego, as Mark Eichlars would say, was not his amigo, that it was just, he was too much

00:13:52.000 about himself. He didn't build relationships. He didn't reach out to the staff enough. You can't just

00:13:56.780 go in there all swagger and say, there's new Boston town. I'm changing everything. You guys

00:14:01.960 sucked before I got here and now do it my way. I mean, there does need to be some amount of

00:14:06.960 finesse. And he apparently didn't get that. And also just wasn't a natural born leader. You know,

00:14:12.700 I mean, few are, to be honest, few are, you gotta, you don't have a lot of Jocko Willinks running

00:14:16.820 around out there in the media landscape. Um, but he was about as far away from it as, as the,

00:14:22.480 as he could be. And so those, that combination wound up being toxic and, and failed, made him

00:14:28.420 fail in the execution of the Malone Zaslav mission, which is a good one.

00:14:32.660 Right. Right. Yeah, no, it, it certainly seems that way. And I think one of the biggest things

00:14:36.780 that stood out to me in that Atlantic piece was that if you're an average CNN staffer, let's,

00:14:42.300 you know, put aside people like the Jake Tappers of the world or Oliver Darcy, the people that

00:14:46.400 like Oliver Darcy, you know, celebrating today, the person, the people that have been firing missiles

00:14:51.140 at Lick's direction for a long time from inside the building. But if you're just the average

00:14:55.020 staffer, you probably learned a lot about what Chris Lick thinks about the old network,

00:14:59.700 about what his mission is, what he wants it for the future, how he sees it evolving in that Atlantic

00:15:04.400 piece. And perhaps you didn't necessarily even fully know that when, you know, the last year has

00:15:10.840 been going on. Now, maybe you've gotten hints of it here and there. Obviously there's the big Trump

00:15:14.660 town hall, which I think is perhaps the precursor to this, not the actual town hall itself, but

00:15:20.320 the massive fallout, both internal and external to that town hall, I think was, was maybe, you know,

00:15:26.600 step one towards the beginning of the end in some ways. So you're learning a lot about that. And I

00:15:31.460 think that that, that, that is a problem. You know, it's, it's, it's the ego that you saw in it.

00:15:35.600 Like you talk about the, the, having a reporter follow along on your, your morning sessions that

00:15:42.180 of working out and talking about being a machine. I mean, like you talked about yesterday, I mean,

00:15:46.360 that that's just, that's not what you want from, from a leader. You don't want that to be what

00:15:51.100 your, what your legacy is going to be, but also you want to make sure that everyone, maybe they're

00:15:56.740 not going to be on board with that mission. And those people, like you said, should be shown the

00:16:00.160 door still today, but you want to make sure you're communicating that to the average person that's

00:16:04.360 working at the network and make them buy into this new mission.

00:16:08.320 That's, that's so much of the problem, but the thing that we're, you know, people saying,

00:16:12.540 oh, this is because of the Trump town hall. The left is going with a totally different narrative

00:16:15.500 right now on Twitter. They're saying, oh, I mean, I'll just give you one example. John Cooper,

00:16:19.640 former Dem finance guy tweets out breaking Chris Lick is leaving CNN after doing horrible damage to

00:16:24.020 the network's reputation. That's not what happened. That's not why he's being pushed out. He didn't

00:16:30.200 have the support of the staff for all the reasons outlined thus far on this show and in the Atlantic

00:16:34.420 piece and so on. But, and then yes, there's a core group within CNN who didn't believe in the

00:16:39.560 mission, but he did not ruin CNN. He did not do horrible damage to the network's reputation.

00:16:45.300 Jeff Zucker is the one who ruined CNN, Steve.

00:16:48.860 Yeah, look, and that, that is, I think what's going to be missing in all this. And also why I

00:16:53.620 think all these people who are, you know, dancing on the grave of Chris Lick today are going to be

00:16:57.560 sorely disappointed when whoever that next leader is brought on from Warner Brothers Discovery,

00:17:02.440 that mission's not going away. So it's going to be a different person that's going to be executing

00:17:05.720 that, but I don't think they're going to like where it's going if, if they think that's the

00:17:09.220 takeaway from this. No, I, I, I look, there's a column that was published yesterday, which

00:17:13.940 kind of prescient today, but Perry Bacon in the Washington Post, just a shockingly terrible column

00:17:20.780 called CNN's Chris Lick showed the problem with anti-woke centrism. And, and what he has described

00:17:27.500 as anti-woke centrism is that he's saying that Chris Lick embodies an increasingly prominent American

00:17:33.660 media and politics among powerful white men who live on the coast, don't identify as Republicans

00:17:38.480 or conservatives, but are, have this anti-woke mentality that as he concludes this piece, I

00:17:45.180 mean, you've got to go and read this piece. This is so bad. He says, I can't tell if the anti-woke

00:17:49.420 don't understand what's actually happening in America, or if they actively oppose a more equitable

00:17:54.020 country. This is the takeaway from, from this person. And I have to say this, this has been shared

00:17:59.160 widely among the, the people that don't like the Chris Lick vision of CNN. And, and I think it's

00:18:05.820 so wrong. You know, one of the biggest things that, that I think Brian Stelter of the world didn't like

00:18:10.120 in that Atlantic piece was Chris criticizing CNN's COVID coverage. And he criticized them. It wasn't in

00:18:16.460 the Atlantic piece, but Semaphore then later published it, that he was criticizing it with a

00:18:21.820 background to it. They did a poll of why are people losing trust in CNN? Number one was liberal bias.

00:18:27.200 Number two was Chris Cuomo. Number three was the way they covered COVID the, the hysterical,

00:18:33.600 overly dramatic way that they covered COVID. So he's absolutely right about that. The people that,

00:18:38.320 that love the resistance TV of Jeff Zucker are completely wrong about what the average person

00:18:43.220 in America thinks of CNN and would like from a CNN. And, and that's just the loud Twitter crowd.

00:18:49.220 That's making a lot of noise here. He's got to do an Elon Musk. Elon Musk got rid of 80% of the

00:18:54.440 Twitter staff. And yes, they had a glitch when they were launched with Ron DeSantis because of

00:18:58.780 volume, but Twitter has been working just fine other than that. And he's making it. I mean,

00:19:03.120 it's lost a lot of profit given all the problems, but the point is you can't create a new mission

00:19:08.800 for a social media company or another media company with the same staff that's committed to a very

00:19:13.700 different mission. How are you going to get Don lemons fired? Right? What about all the staffers

00:19:17.280 who laughed just as hard behind the scenes? And that sneering video that you found Steve,

00:19:20.900 that we've shown many times with Rick Wilson and Wajah Ali, right? Laughing about how the Trump

00:19:26.880 viewers, this is stupid. Yeah. With like their maps, their maps. And they're like that how those

00:19:32.840 staffers are all presumably still there. So you cannot like cleaning house is that firing Don,

00:19:39.720 firing Stelter, firing Cuomo. That's not cleaning house. And the viewers know it and can feel it.

00:19:46.860 Yeah. It's, it's very hard. Right now the revamped, what, what people see on air too

00:19:54.200 are essentially the same people. You mentioned all these people, Brianna Keillor. I mean,

00:19:57.920 she's just now, I believe she's on it from nine to noon or from one to four. She's in one of these

00:20:03.500 news slots. It's a different version of her. Jim Acosta is now on the weekends and he's doing

00:20:08.020 maybe a slightly reduced version of it. Everyone remembers, no one's stupid. Everyone knows what these

00:20:12.660 people were only a couple of years ago and what they were empowered to do a couple of years ago.

00:20:17.820 It's very hard putting that genie back in the bottle and trying to just run it back with the

00:20:21.800 same staff. And, and, and so I think that's another just total misconception. And I completely

00:20:27.720 agree with you people behind the scenes too. If you're not on board with this idea of getting back

00:20:32.660 to the news version of CNN, and there are people inside who I think were a little bit leery of the

00:20:38.320 way it's seen and drifted during those Trump years and like the direction that it's going back,

00:20:42.740 those people can stay. There's some of those, but the rest you got to go. And, and, and another big

00:20:48.680 storyline that's being made these days or these past few days really is the ratings that, you know,

00:20:55.000 oh, well, well, the ratings are so terrible. I mean, before Chris look took over, there's a Forbes

00:21:00.200 report from February of 2022, right before Chris took over in that last year, CNN had lost 70%

00:21:07.940 from the previous year in that time. This was before Chris took over the demo at that time

00:21:13.300 was 126,000. The demo prime time number there. Yeah. This February, 122,000. So, okay. It's,

00:21:23.220 I mean, it's, it's negligible. I mean, the ratings were terrible before Chris Lick got in there.

00:21:27.640 And, and I just, I think it's really important to note that what matters to the bosses, you know,

00:21:33.140 they, they say, David Zaslow says, it doesn't matter about the ratings right now. Sure. Eventually,

00:21:37.120 maybe it will. What matters is getting that brand respectability back. So when you go and negotiate

00:21:42.180 your next contract with the Comcasts of the world or the direct TVs of the world, you can say people

00:21:47.060 trust us. That's what they lost. And these one 26 versus one 22, it's all bad. It's not getting

00:21:53.220 better. Sure. But that's not what matters. Most what matters is getting the brand back, right?

00:21:57.660 It's going to take years if it's possible at all. I agree. It's worth a try, but you've got it like

00:22:04.620 in the same way they, the new owners came in and said, CNN plus has got to go. This is a disaster

00:22:09.160 in the making. We're not putting more money into this nightmare. Get rid of it. Nobody wants to

00:22:13.280 watch John Lemon in front of a talk show audience or Anderson Cooper cook or whatever he was doing.

00:22:19.040 And they got rid of, they need to do the same thing with CNN proper. They just do. And if you look at

00:22:23.440 CNN digital, which is really their money-making arm, it's as biased as it ever was. Somebody needs to put

00:22:29.040 the hand on the tiller there too, because half the stuff we make fun of on shows like this come

00:22:34.180 from CNN.com. So it's not just the on-air talent. If you really want to change CNN back to the way

00:22:41.160 it used to be, you've got to say to the staff, either you get on board with the new mission or

00:22:46.500 you get out or we'll kick you out. That's the way it's going to be. It's a business, not a daycare.

00:22:52.700 Yeah. Yeah. And, and I mean, we've talked about this too, Megan, like it's going to be harder

00:22:57.080 to do that. It was always going to be harder to do that if you're Chris Licht with the 800 pound

00:23:02.220 gorilla in the room, right? Donald Trump running for office again, makes this that much more

00:23:06.260 challenging because with every indictment, with every time that Donald Trump brings up January 6th,

00:23:11.100 okay, well now we've got our opportunity to go, go to run the greatest hits of the quote unquote,

00:23:15.060 big lie. And it's, it's hard to, to change those muscles or the muscle memory or what was

00:23:21.780 requested of the staff in the old days. It's, it's hard enough to do that if Donald Trump's not

00:23:28.100 involved, but he is involved. He's going to be very, very involved over these next 18 months.

00:23:32.200 And you need a very steady hand and you need buy-in. You need the full buy-in of the staff.

00:23:37.220 If you're not going to just make the same resistance TV mistakes that you made over these last seven

00:23:43.100 years, when Donald Trump was running for office and then when he was in the white house. So it's,

00:23:47.300 it's going to be a challenge no matter who's there, but if those people are not on board with,

00:23:51.420 we're going to do Donald Trump differently. Let's just start there. You're not, you're not going to

00:23:56.080 fix anything. No, they are, they're activists, as I said, and it's going to be very tough to get

00:24:00.720 them to turn in any event. They're, they're programmed. It's, it's like you've been programmed

00:24:04.840 to hate him, to absolutely loathe him, to think he's a Hitler-esque character. How are you going

00:24:08.380 to cover him fairly? And so they should be given the chance. Either you try and you succeed or get out,

00:24:13.960 get out and we'll give you a soft landing with a package and a nice recommendation. But they ought to

00:24:17.940 think about it long and hard because media jobs are hard to come by. They really are.

00:24:21.600 Health insurance. It's fun to work in news. A lot of people want to do it. You want to walk away

00:24:26.000 from your CNN job because they want to become more fair because they want to go back to being less

00:24:30.340 biased. Get out. You know, you should just get out, go, go work for a hard partisan, go work for

00:24:34.680 Rachel Maddow. Don't pretend you're in the straight news business because you're not. Um, want to add

00:24:39.660 this, just a little color from page six of the New York post reporting that Licht was blindsided by his

00:24:45.400 ouster. That's kind of tough to believe given the amount of articles that had come out since that

00:24:50.380 Atlantic piece on Friday. But they say insiders say he had meetings on his calendar for Wednesday.

00:24:55.860 That's today, which as of Tuesday night, he was expecting to attend. We're told that after a

00:25:00.480 mortifying profile in the Atlantic was published over the weekend, the infamously confident Licht

00:25:04.240 thought he was going to ride it out. Sources tell us his longtime pal Warner Brothers Discovery CEO

00:25:09.680 David Zaslav surprised Licht when he delivered the news that he is being replaced. I mean, if he was

00:25:15.560 surprised by it, I think he was the only one, Steve, because how many pieces do we have saying

00:25:19.800 he's done? He's out. He can't survive this. He's lost his staff. Yeah, I, I, everyone I talked to,

00:25:27.120 every single person, uh, believed much more strongly than I did. I have to say that, that this would be,

00:25:32.600 this would be the end that, and, and it's hard to survive massive profiles like this. I, I've,

00:25:38.120 I've heard the, the Tim Alberta piece, you know, which he wrote the Atlantic article as a hit piece.

00:25:42.920 I, I really think that's a wrong positioning of it. I, I actually don't think it really was an

00:25:47.560 unfair piece to Chris Licht. In fact, I think it actually was sort of a pretty representative

00:25:52.760 idea of exactly what was happening there. I mean, we, we, I know you read some of these hilarious

00:25:57.980 moments on Friday about Don Lemon and what was happening in the control room there that made Don

00:26:02.520 look bad essentially. And, and a lot of Chris's points in there were, I think like you and I would

00:26:08.540 agree with, but he said it to a reporter. He said it in that way. It was framed in, in this way.

00:26:14.400 That's going to just, it's going to be a bomb exploding in that newsroom that already was very

00:26:20.380 leery of the way he, of where he was leading in that way. And my understanding from talking to people

00:26:25.780 today is that opened the floodgates that, that the last vestiges of people who had his back,

00:26:32.040 or at least were willing to ride it out said, that's it that I I'm going to my bosses. I'm going to

00:26:37.260 every boss I can talk to and saying we're done. And, and that really was the beginning of the end

00:26:41.740 there. You know, it's true because while you and I agreed with all the criticisms of how CNN handled

00:26:46.380 COVID and Trump and so on. And as you point out, the CNN viewers reflected that in polls and focus

00:26:53.100 groups that Chris Licht had seen when it comes to messaging as the boss, you do need to handle that

00:27:01.160 kind of thing gingerly because it's the same staff working for you right now that committed those sins.

00:27:06.900 And so there's a way of correcting them because in the CNN staffers defense, they were unleashed

00:27:12.400 by Zucker. They were told to lean into bias. So as the new boss, there is a sort of a tact that would

00:27:18.660 be required in helping them come to see how we're going in a new direction now. And we believe that

00:27:25.480 you were given the wrong instructions by the wrong leader, at least with respect to CNN's brand.

00:27:31.420 Your personal politics don't, don't matter, right? You can be as far left as you want, as long as you

00:27:35.820 cover the news in an unbiased way. And what the Atlantic piece wound up being was him bashing CNN

00:27:42.320 at every turn, the old CNN, having almost nothing nice to say about the current CNN, having a lot of

00:27:47.380 nice things to say about himself and appearing extremely vain and obsessed with himself, which

00:27:53.980 was already a feeling that the staff was getting. So it was mishandled from start to finish. I don't

00:27:58.440 know what's going to happen to CNN. I care a little because I do think it'd be good for the country to

00:28:02.440 have, you know, one network that has, you know, power that has reach. Like with respect to News

00:28:10.240 Nation, they're trying, their numbers are like single digits in the thousands. But CNN does have

00:28:16.540 huge reach, global reach. So if they could turn it around, it would be a delight. It would give us

00:28:22.140 all something to tune to, at least when there's breaking news. In the meantime, good luck and stay

00:28:28.000 with us either way, because we got your back and we actually truly are fair and balanced news.

00:28:33.620 Thanks to Steve Krakauer and my crack team too. Thank you, sir. Thanks, Megan. All right. When we

00:28:39.740 come back, the Connecticut runners in their legal battle now getting more and more weighty, more and

00:28:45.720 more important. This is a battle that can affect every school child potentially in the country and

00:28:52.020 where their fight stands when it comes to girl sports. Your business doesn't move in a straight

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00:29:28.640 Joining us now, two former high school track athletes, Chelsea Mitchell and Alana Smith. They,

00:29:34.260 along with two other athletes, filed a lawsuit over a Connecticut policy that forced them to compete

00:29:40.040 against biological males in their high school competitions. The case was dismissed in December of

00:29:46.040 2022 and it was given a second chance in February. Ultimately, it was heard yesterday by the full

00:29:53.940 Second Circuit Court of Appeals. They join us now along with their attorney, Kristen Wagoner, CEO and

00:30:00.180 president of Alliance Defending Freedom. Love Alliance Defending Freedom. This is the group that fights

00:30:05.700 these fights across the country and we are all better off because of them. Ladies, welcome back to the show.

00:30:11.620 Great to see you again. Thank you. All right. So when we last spoke, you girls had graduated

00:30:18.560 from high school, I believe, but had brought the lawsuit because you'd been damaged. Your records

00:30:25.280 didn't reflect your actual accomplishments. These biological males had taken titles that you might

00:30:30.680 have otherwise gotten, had taken opportunities that you might have otherwise gotten, and even potentially

00:30:35.640 scholarships. You just don't know. And you were in the legal battle. Now you lost. The trial court judge

00:30:43.340 said, you graduated. So you're not going to, the problem's kind of over. Call it mootness in the law.

00:30:51.040 And you know, you lost your standing to bring this case. So frustrating. And then you appealed it,

00:30:57.460 Kristen, to the Second Circuit, which is a very liberal court, very liberal courts in the New York area.

00:31:01.800 And you lost there too, is my understanding. But then you asked for the full Second Circuit Court

00:31:07.060 of Appeals to hear the case. Is that right? Well, actually, the Second Circuit Court of Appeals

00:31:13.520 decided to hear it on its own. But yes, they heard it yesterday and oral arguments were held yesterday

00:31:18.980 in New York. Well, that's big. That is very big because normally when you go up to an appeal in a

00:31:23.860 federal court, you just get a three judge panel. You don't get the entire circuit of judges in the

00:31:28.440 Second Circuit. When they sit and listen to it like that, they're interested. And it means they

00:31:32.740 are potentially interested in overruling the ruling that went against you. So that's one glimmer of

00:31:40.100 hope. Let me start with you as the lawyer. How did it go yesterday? It went great. I mean,

00:31:45.380 unfortunately, a lot of these decisions come down to ideological views of the judges. And that's

00:31:51.420 something we always have to struggle with. There were 15 on the panel, but the questions were

00:31:55.360 very friendly to us in many respects, and even the hostile questions we had good answers for.

00:32:00.720 You know, the case boils down to, Megan, a motion to dismiss. These girls haven't even had the right

00:32:05.480 to go to court yet. So that's what this issue is about, is whether they can even have their case

00:32:10.840 heard. They've never even been heard on the merits, which is that girls should be able to compete on a

00:32:15.800 level playing field. So we're anxious to be able to assert the legal theories that we have because we

00:32:21.320 know they're right and hoping that the Second Circuit will allow us to do that.

00:32:25.460 Isn't the standard to get around the mootness objection, you know, like this case is moot,

00:32:30.240 they graduated, something like likely to repeat itself, likely to repeat yet incapable of review

00:32:36.300 or something like that. Like, in other words, the fact that this is likely to keep happening

00:32:40.460 should allow it to be heard.

00:32:42.760 That is one of the exceptions to the mutinous doctrine, but we don't even need to rely on that

00:32:46.640 exception. The important point here is that these girls filed their lawsuit when they were

00:32:51.020 in high school. And what's egregiously wrong with the way the trial judge handled it, among other

00:32:55.600 things, is that he waited 14 months from the time that we filed the complaint to dismiss the case

00:33:00.580 after they graduated.

00:33:02.280 What a coward.

00:33:03.600 Yes, and never did rule on the merits. So under the law, the issue is whether essentially we have

00:33:09.780 ongoing harm. Until those records are corrected, we have an injury, and that's what you're required

00:33:14.720 to demonstrate in the law. An injury that can be redressed. They can fix those records,

00:33:19.800 and they need to do so. In addition to that, you know, they've certainly lost the podium spots and

00:33:25.720 the opportunities, but they can't even put that they were winners on their resumes, for example,

00:33:30.940 for job opportunities. So we feel strongly and believe that the Second Circuit will vindicate

00:33:36.460 the right of these girls to go to court. And that's really what's at issue as a first step.

00:33:41.340 One of the annoying things, Chelsea and Alana, in reading the case is how the court and the ACLU,

00:33:46.880 which is representing the other side, come out with, she won. Chelsea won this. Alana won this.

00:33:53.540 What do you mean? They were winners. They did have the opportunity to win. As if you managed to pull

00:33:58.200 out a W in one race, it should be enough that, you know, who cares if it was an unfair race

00:34:04.760 in 10 others. I wonder how you felt reading that. I'll start with you on that, Chelsea, about how,

00:34:10.080 look, you did win. And in fact, the court accepted that. The Second Circuit wrote,

00:34:13.040 plaintiffs simply have not been deprived of a, quote, chance to be champions.

00:34:21.160 Well, I mean, there were four state championships where I should have been at the top of the podium,

00:34:25.560 but instead that honor went to a male. And in the races that I did win, those were still unfair races.

00:34:30.700 And there were girls that still lost opportunities in those races because of the biological males in

00:34:35.020 that race. And so it doesn't really matter. We need our records fixed to reflect what actually

00:34:42.400 happened in the race. And that is not what they currently say.

00:34:46.080 One of the other things, Alana, that the ACLU is pointing out is you both did go on to race

00:34:51.680 in college and and obtain scholarships, too, from what I read. And so what are you complaining about?

00:34:58.340 Like, just you didn't lose anything.

00:35:01.900 Well, like Chelsea said, we did win a few times, but it's bigger than just me and her and the other

00:35:08.960 girls involved. In the case, it's about the girls that didn't make didn't get to advance to other

00:35:14.600 meets and didn't get scholarships. And so it's just about doing it for future generations of women and

00:35:20.840 just making sure that we don't become sidelined in our own sport.

00:35:24.760 Megan, Megan, I'll just point out on that alone. As Chelsea said, she lost out on four state

00:35:30.720 championships. Those boys, two boys in a three year period, took 15 state championships and set 17 state

00:35:37.880 records. I mean, just think about that in 85 times they displace girls. So it's not just about the

00:35:43.600 other girls. It is about Chelsea. It is about Alana. We don't know what scholarships they could

00:35:48.700 have gotten had Chelsea gotten all of the state championships that she should have been rightly

00:35:53.180 awarded. We don't know that. What we do know is that those records are wrong, that it was unfairly

00:35:58.560 administered in terms of the rules and that they need to fix it. So I think that there's a difference

00:36:03.900 between winning this one and winning that one and looking like Flojo to the colleges who are doing

00:36:11.300 the recruiting and and the entrance of two biological males into your competition may have been the line

00:36:17.220 between you and those two places. Exactly. I mean, there is a difference between 10 state championships

00:36:22.500 and one. We know that intuitively. Mm hmm. But now there this whole thing, Kristen, comes down to

00:36:28.740 whether Title IX, which protects girl sports, includes those who identify as girls. Gender

00:36:35.800 identity. Is that included in the word sex? You know, your biological sex would use to protect you

00:36:41.400 when it came to women's sports. And now under, I think it's Connecticut state law and certainly the

00:36:47.620 policy governing the public schools. Sex includes gender identity, somebody who identifies as female.

00:36:55.360 So what is that? Does that require the Second Circuit Court of Appeals to say those are invalid

00:37:01.640 interpretations of Title IX? It is. They are invalid interpretations. What we know Title IX was intended

00:37:08.480 to do is to ensure that both sexes, the two sexes, have equal opportunities, equal benefits. And the

00:37:14.800 regulations under that even say that includes that girls should be able to compete based on their

00:37:20.400 competitive abilities based on their skill sets. They shouldn't have to essentially have less

00:37:25.320 competitive races that their brothers have, for example. And so that's how Title IX has always

00:37:30.500 applied. And it's how I believe it will continue to apply when we eventually win this issue.

00:37:35.720 There are many states who have a law like this. Connecticut has a law saying you can race according

00:37:39.820 to your gender identity. I think it's 29 states. So if this case were to go all the way up to the

00:37:46.260 Supreme Court, we could be changing law in a lot of places. Your thoughts on it?

00:37:50.400 Well, there are 21 states that actually have taken action to ensure that males can't compete against

00:37:55.700 women. They recognize the truth that men and women are different, that the physical advantages are

00:38:00.680 different, and they can't be overcome simply through supplemental hormones. And so states are

00:38:06.660 recognizing that 21, just I think as the last count was just a few months ago, where 21 states

00:38:14.280 have protected it. But ultimately, this comes down to a federal law question as well. It's kind of a

00:38:19.740 belt and suspenders approach, you might say. And the question is, does Title IX require, the other

00:38:25.480 side saying it requires men to compete as women? And our position is no, Title IX requires that you give

00:38:34.020 women and girls equal opportunities and fair play. And so that's the final question that will need to be

00:38:39.880 decided by the Supreme Court. And it hasn't decided that question yet.

00:38:42.900 The two biological males who decided to run against you girls. I mean, the case of Terry Miller is

00:38:51.520 particularly shocking. Did you both race against Terry Miller?

00:38:56.860 Yeah.

00:38:58.060 Yeah.

00:38:58.640 And so can you tell us the story of Terry Miller and what happened with Terry Miller when he was

00:39:04.340 racing against you girls as as part of the girls team?

00:39:08.540 Yeah, so so my sophomore year, actually, Terry raced on the boys team in the indoor season, and then in the

00:39:15.260 outdoor season, switch to the girls team. And Terry, I'm not sure the exact number, but Terry was blowing us

00:39:22.720 girls out of the water. I mean, I remember at the state open championship in 100 meters, Terry in the red.

00:39:28.340 Is this Terry in the red?

00:39:30.160 Yes.

00:39:31.100 Okay.

00:39:31.380 Terry went by like over half a second to the second biological male. And then the me and the other

00:39:40.760 female finishers were after them. But the both of them just blew us out of the water consistently.

00:39:48.560 And what I mean, that's amazing, because you have the same person racing as a boy and a girl within a

00:39:54.580 few months, within a few month period. So I mean, a lot of help us non athletes understand what that

00:40:00.460 feels like when you show up there, and you're at the, you know, starting point, and you look over

00:40:05.460 and there's there's a biological boy or two, who you now know you're going to have to try to be.

00:40:11.360 Yeah, it was so frustrating, because I know, I mean, I used to spend hours, a day at track practice

00:40:17.880 just to shape off, I mean, 10s of a second, hundreds of a second tracks of sport were just like

00:40:22.980 a little bit of time off is huge. And it was just so frustrating to line up and just feel like

00:40:28.880 I was racing for second place. And even if I was trying my hardest, I knew that I wasn't going to

00:40:33.400 get the top spot. And then just to know that me and the other girls were, we would do we didn't

00:40:38.940 have a level playing field. Yeah, well, there was a case in California recently, did you girls see

00:40:44.720 this, where there was a track meet? And same thing, biological boys were participating at the high

00:40:51.180 school level. And they they were winning. And one of them said, I was so proud of myself. One of the

00:40:58.300 boys, I was so proud of myself, because I managed to shave 17 seconds off of my time in the past few

00:41:04.560 months. And I just read that as a non runner, like, well, that that sounds good. But the female runners

00:41:09.520 were like, that doesn't happen. That doesn't happen for female runners, shaving 17 seconds off in a couple

00:41:16.660 of months. Is that basically what you're saying, Alana? Yes, I mean, 17 seconds is huge, because even

00:41:22.180 just half a second, a 10th of a second is huge in track. And yet, were there any requirements,

00:41:28.820 you know, in your state that you know of, that they that they, you know, take that they reduce

00:41:35.940 their testosterone, that they do something to reduce the biological advantage as if we could get rid of all

00:41:41.180 of them, but at least on the testosterone front, Chelsea? No, that the CIC policy was pretty much

00:41:47.560 just if you identify as a girl, then you can run the girls team, there was no policy that you had to

00:41:53.800 lower testosterone or anything. They are saying now, Kristen, well, there's no one you can point to on

00:42:00.940 the current team in Connecticut current teams that has a biological man. So, you know, it's over.

00:42:08.240 There's only a handful of these people in the country. You're making a mountain out of a molehill.

00:42:13.800 Well, unless you have your head under a rock, I think that you know that this is a problem

00:42:19.260 around the nation and around the world. We are going to see women continue to lose equal opportunities,

00:42:27.360 continue to lose the ability to compete on a fair and level playing field if we don't start to stand

00:42:33.500 up and speak up and insist that our rights be protected. And again, there is harm done when you

00:42:40.840 are asserting a claim in court. You need to prove that you have an injury and that the court can do

00:42:46.320 something about that injury. And when the records are not corrected, justice is not done. And that's an

00:42:52.440 ongoing injury that the court can address. I mean, we know that when, you know, think about examples where

00:42:57.940 people are cheating, caught cheating after running a race, whether it's they have testosterone,

00:43:02.580 they're taking hormones, they were ineligible to compete, too old, too young, whatever.

00:43:07.080 They have a system that they use to correct those records. And that same system needs to take place

00:43:12.180 here. It's just too big of an issue to let go. And again, it's, it's just shocking to me that we

00:43:18.640 can't even get into court after three years. Yeah, that's right. And then they have the nerve to tell

00:43:25.040 you you're too late after keeping you on ice for 14 months. There was an extraordinary moment on

00:43:29.960 MSNBC yesterday that I've been wanting to ask you about ever since I saw it late yesterday.

00:43:34.500 Nicole Wallace hosted the head of the Southern Poverty Law Center in a discussion over biological

00:43:39.680 boys participating in girls sports in what I consider just a shockingly out of touch discussion.

00:43:46.580 But you're the ones who actually had to live this. So I'm more interested in what you think.

00:43:51.120 Watch this. There are maybe 100 trans athletes. And to be clear, as an ex Republican, I think

00:43:59.080 they're only upset about trans kids who identify as girls. How do you explain the gap between the

00:44:05.040 reality that there are less than 100 trans kids playing sports and the rise and the platforming of

00:44:12.560 hatred? This is very much a coordinated effort. There are actually 12 anti-student inclusion groups

00:44:20.640 in the country that are pushing to ban certain books, ban curricula, punish teachers who talk about

00:44:28.340 inclusive education and generally make our school boards miserable.

00:44:34.480 So essentially, your position is classified as hate. What's your response to that, Chelsea?

00:44:40.920 Well, it only took two biological males in our races to take 15 state championships away from

00:44:48.640 girls. And and really, this is just a women's rights issue. I mean, we just want to be able to

00:44:52.660 win just like the male athletes at the at these meets. I mean, why do why do all the male athletes

00:44:57.120 get to be champions, but the women are sidelined? Like, that's not fair. And we deserve that right to win.

00:45:03.560 What do you think, Alana, when you watch that and they are categorizing people like you who object

00:45:08.260 to this situation as really just part of hateful groups who are against inclusivity?

00:45:14.900 It's extremely frustrating because it's all about fairness and it's all about finding a spot

00:45:19.880 for everyone to play the sport that they love. But it's about finding where it's most fair

00:45:25.900 and having biological men compete with biological women is just so unfair. And like Chelsea said,

00:45:32.980 we deserve to be champions, too, and we shouldn't be sidelined in our own sport.

00:45:36.360 Right. You last time you gals came on, we talked about how you, Chelsea, and maybe you will to

00:45:42.940 Alana, but you you did have a couple of races where you beat these competitors, these male

00:45:47.740 competitors. And you had pointed out to me, Chelsea, that in at least one of those or I think it was a

00:45:53.580 couple. There were actual reasons for that that may not have to do with your incredible ability to

00:45:59.200 beat men so much as the fact that there were false starts by the male runners in those races,

00:46:05.760 which doesn't get reported by the media or the judge. The judge, you know, like they're like,

00:46:10.460 hey, you you beat them without pointing out that there was a false start. I thought it was interesting

00:46:14.540 because after our interview, this is just July of this past year, Andrea Yearwood, who's one of the

00:46:20.180 trans athletes, discussed your lawsuit on Vice TV and and had thoughts about that false start. Listen to this.

00:46:29.200 The lawsuit came about, I think, my junior year of high school in order to not only stop me from

00:46:35.880 running, but to also like erase all my records from the record book with throughout high school

00:46:41.840 and all my medals. So it kind of erased me from the track scene in Connecticut, like altogether.

00:46:48.360 When I first found the news, I really tried to like put it in the back of my mind, not worry about it

00:46:52.620 yet. And Jada, like you have bigger things to worry about. You have a meet tomorrow. Try to focus on that.

00:46:57.100 I guess my Jada is coming out the best of me and I false started.

00:47:03.280 So it was it was jitters that led to the false start, but no apology for the fact that this

00:47:09.280 person's running and taking your titles and your medals anyway. What was your reaction to that soundbite?

00:47:16.020 Well, I mean, I think about all the state championships that I lost that I deserve to be

00:47:20.920 the winner that haven't been rectified. And, you know, those three races where I won against these

00:47:27.440 athletes, there were two false starts. And so, you know, it's just an inaccurate representation of

00:47:32.820 what happened, you know, in the race that day. I mean, I was nervous, too. I had filed the lawsuit

00:47:36.660 two days before. So I think we were all equally kind of jittered up and nervous at the meets. But

00:47:42.800 what about Alana? He said that he says in that clip, you want to stop him from running. You want

00:47:48.100 to erase him and his records. Your response to that? Well, like I said before, it's all about

00:47:56.480 fairness and everybody does deserve to play the sport that they love. But it's about finding

00:48:01.140 where it's most fair. And obviously, biological males should not compete in the women's category.

00:48:06.960 And that's why we have sex separated categories in sports. Like an open category would be a

00:48:13.000 solution where they can race other other people in the open category, but not just take all the

00:48:17.620 girls medals. Kristen, I'll give you the last word. How do we like our chances now with this full

00:48:21.260 circuit reviewing it? And when do we expect an opinion? Well, we don't know exactly when we'll get

00:48:26.860 an opinion. It will take probably weeks, probably months, actually, before we get a decision. There are

00:48:32.440 other cases that are also pending that ADF is litigating. I think one thing that we haven't

00:48:37.080 touched on that would be important for your listeners to know is that there's a 10 to 50%

00:48:41.420 performance gap between men and comparatively trained and fit women. That is a flat biological

00:48:47.700 reality that doesn't change. And that's what makes, you know, the false start and the jitters.

00:48:53.640 What he's actually saying is that he should have won that race had he not had those jitters. And what

00:48:58.680 we're saying is, no, the law and policy needs to reflect biological reality.

00:49:03.580 You shouldn't be, you shouldn't have been in the race to begin with. I mean, I would love to see a

00:49:07.740 test case go up on this. I know, Kristen, you guys are handling cases about forced use of pronouns

00:49:12.740 in the, on the college setting and elsewhere. Do you think there's a glimmer of hope in those cases?

00:49:19.480 I just feel like they're so committed to this ideology. It's all an uphill battle.

00:49:23.180 But it's one worth fighting. I mean, we know that unjust laws create real harm. And you look

00:49:29.220 at these kids who are being confused. How can we not speak up? How can we not fight it? And I do

00:49:34.260 have hope. I mean, we've won the pronoun issue in the Sixth Circuit Court of Appeals. We have laws

00:49:40.060 right now that are being put in place in progressively left states that deny parents the right to be able

00:49:45.540 to get their children help to overcome gender confusion or same sex attraction. And that's just

00:49:50.360 through listening and counseling. This has to be stopped as parents and people that care about the

00:49:57.020 next generation. We need to ensure that our laws reflect biological reality. It's common sense. And

00:50:02.500 it's the way to protect freedom in the future. Yes, this is America. This is America. We're still

00:50:08.100 allowed to speak the way we want, especially if it's consistent with reality. Ladies, thank you so

00:50:13.240 much for telling your story. We'll follow it. We'll look forward to the decision and good luck to all of

00:50:17.300 you. Thank you. Wow. It's unbelievable. It's unjust. And the Second Circuit better do the right

00:50:23.440 thing. We'll be right back. Your business doesn't move in a straight line. Make sure your team is

00:50:29.000 taken care of through every twist and turn with Canada Life savings, retirement and benefits plans.

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00:50:46.040 solution that works for you. Visit canadalife.com slash employee benefits to learn more. Canada

00:50:52.320 Life, insurance, investments, advice. The Daily Mail now reporting that the beer brand Modelo has

00:51:02.820 officially overtaken Bud Light as America's top selling beer. Take that Bud Light. Bet you're missing

00:51:11.940 your fratty audience now. Bet you really miss your beer guzzling frat boys, don't you? Not a lot better

00:51:19.500 without them, is it, Alyssa? Bud Light had held the number one spot for the last, oh, 22 years since

00:51:27.940 2001 when it topped its sister brand, Budweiser. Modelo makes Modelo beer and also, as Debbie Murphy,

00:51:37.480 who is a teetotaler, told me, Corona to Canadian Debbie. She's so fun. But Modelo sales are up about

00:51:49.920 16 percent, 16 from last year. Bud Light sales are down about 23 percent. It's truly, you know, go woke,

00:51:56.440 go broke. Hope you're paying attention, Target. My next guest is the perfect person to talk about all of

00:52:01.960 this. She is one of my favorite people on Twitter when it comes to the culture wars. She posts under the

00:52:06.760 pseudonym Peachy Keenan. Get it? Peachy Keenan. She doesn't use her real name in order to try to

00:52:12.320 shield herself and her family from the shitstorm that comes your way when you talk honestly about

00:52:16.400 these issues. But she is revealing herself on camera now because she is out with a new book.

00:52:21.960 It is called Domestic Extremist, A Practical Guide to Winning the Culture War. Peachy, welcome to the show.

00:52:30.440 Thank you so much, Megan. It's so great to be here.

00:52:32.460 Oh, it's great to see you. It's great to see you. And I don't question your choice at all. We've got

00:52:37.360 these guys from Ruthless and one of the guys who's part of Ruthless is comfortably smug and he comes

00:52:43.160 on. You know, that's not his real name. Right. And he comes on with his disguise of just sunglasses and

00:52:49.100 a baseball cap. But it's kind of become a joke now. But I mean, you do get a lot of blowback when you

00:52:54.060 take honest positions on the culture war issues. Yes, you do. I mean, that's why I started tweeting

00:53:00.400 under this crazy pseudonym because at the time I was working full time for a very large,

00:53:07.440 very well known media company here in Los Angeles. And, you know, there was no way for me to express

00:53:14.600 my very dangerous conservative opinions under my real name. I would have been I would have been not

00:53:22.720 only, you know, fired and canceled, but probably like beheaded. I mean, there was just no way that

00:53:28.300 I could have been myself. And a lot of dissidents like me, you know, conservatives feel the same

00:53:34.080 way. I mean, I have a lot of friends who are sort of hiding in the closet at work, you know,

00:53:37.980 and going along with it to get along. I mean, that's just so common, especially on the left

00:53:42.820 coast. So the book is called Domestic Extremist and you have in it a domestic extremist quiz.

00:53:50.140 I'm going to go through this with you in the audience so that the audience can figure out whether

00:53:53.620 they too are domestic extremists. This is fun. I actually took the test this morning.

00:53:58.300 Um, there's 12 questions. Uh, number one, I am married or would like to be now audience pay

00:54:04.600 attention to how many of these are a yes for you. I am married or would like to be, I want or have

00:54:10.100 at least three children. I want or have four or more children. I, or my wife stays home with our

00:54:17.040 baby, or I wish I, or she could, I believe parents are a child's primary authority and educators. Uh,

00:54:25.100 kids generally do best when raised by their married mother and father. I would not trust

00:54:29.500 the average politician or childcare expert to walk my dog. We try to attend religious services

00:54:34.220 as a family. Life begins at conception. Children cannot choose their gender. Sex education should

00:54:40.700 be left up to parents and not taught to elementary school age kids. Promiscuity, pornography, and

00:54:45.460 abortion are not conducive to long-term happiness. If you answered yes to one to three of these,

00:54:50.940 yikes, you might be a domestic extremist. Yes. To four through seven, uh, four to seven of these

00:54:56.280 warning. You are definitely a domestic extremist eight to 10 red alert. You are a dangerous domestic

00:55:01.720 extremist and should expect a knock on your door by a government official shortly. 11 to 12. Bubba,

00:55:06.420 I have fun in the gulags. I came in at a strong 10. I was 10 at nice. So I'm with you. Yeah.

00:55:15.660 Yeah. We're going to be sharing a cell in the gulag you and me, Megan, but this is real. And I wonder

00:55:21.920 with your LA friends, what do you think the average school score would be out there?

00:55:27.260 Um, you know, probably, you know, three to four. And I mean, it's funny since I kind of have come

00:55:33.680 out now with my face. Um, I am expecting like a few very surprised, uh, text messages in the next few

00:55:40.500 days as like word leaks out. Although like, I don't think any of them watch any of the media that

00:55:45.040 I've been doing. Um, but it's definitely scary. I mean, the thing is that most of my friends who

00:55:50.760 are on the left, who are liberals, who are Democrats here in Los Angeles and in New York, um, they

00:55:56.660 already thought I was crazy. You know, I think having a third child already kind of marked me as

00:56:01.420 like someone on the fringe to them. I mean, that's how weird strange it is. Yeah. You can't have more

00:56:06.280 than two. And then like when I converted to Catholicism, you know, that was like the real

00:56:10.840 like, Oh, now she's a freak. That was the straw that broke the camel's back. It was. I get it.

00:56:17.160 I get it. Especially because, I mean, I've lived in New York for almost 20 years, but I've paid a

00:56:21.260 lot of visits out West and it's a special kind of liberalism out there. Um, I mean, the New York

00:56:27.280 liberals are very judgy and they hate conservatives for sure. But the LA liberals have a more elitist

00:56:34.840 quality to their, to their liberalism. Like they really do look down on you. If you don't see the

00:56:41.260 world as they like, you're genuinely a bad person. Yeah. I mean, like I read about in the book,

00:56:46.780 there is some memoir in there because I grew up on the West side of Los Angeles and I myself

00:56:51.120 was like a snob towards conservatives or anyone on the right or Christians. You know, I looked down

00:56:57.720 on flyover country, you know, I was better than that. And I've just had this sort of very interesting

00:57:03.080 journey, like done a total one 80 politically, you know, um, in terms of my faith, um, my social

00:57:09.780 conservatism. And so I really kind of don't fit in here. Although I will say, you know, there are a

00:57:15.660 lot of, um, surprisingly a lot, a large number of conservatives here. I went to a book reading a few

00:57:21.820 weeks ago, actually in person and young men were coming up to me and they were going to, they go to

00:57:26.700 like local colleges in LA and they were fans and they're fans of yours. And I was like blown away

00:57:32.480 to, to know, like, we're not alone here, even in the heart of deep blue California.

00:57:37.780 So how did that evolution begin for you?

00:57:41.940 So my parents were sort of like Reagan Republicans, but I ignored them. I, I kind of

00:57:46.780 rebelled against them. And I, you know, went through high school and college and came out,

00:57:50.580 uh, you know, a fully woke, liberated feminist, you know, militantly pro-choice, um, woman and my

00:57:58.900 twenties were for avoiding pregnancy, avoiding marriage, having fun dating, you know, finding

00:58:05.320 out who I was all that stuff. I believed all the whole, the whole package of feminist, you know,

00:58:10.320 lies. And I think politically, I sort of started to change right around nine 11. Um, when my kind

00:58:15.740 of like latent patriotism was sort of awakened when I saw people burning the American flag,

00:58:21.500 like that day in union square in New York. And I was like, wait, what? That's weird. I didn't,

00:58:27.020 I didn't even know people like that existed in America. I thought we were all on the same team.

00:58:31.120 And so I became a kind of political conservative after that. And then when I met my husband, um,

00:58:36.900 sometime later, he, he had been sort of newly red pilled. He was pro-life and really in the process

00:58:42.960 of wooing me and flirting with me, he kind of wooed me over to his side, to the dark side.

00:58:48.020 And I became, you know, officially conservative, but, but was it closeted still with respect to

00:58:53.800 your friends and not, not your family, I guess, but your friends. Yeah. Uh, we had some friends

00:58:59.440 who were sort of aligned with us, but I remember we were, we would like, we would like get threatened

00:59:03.580 even among my friends in New York city. They would be shocked. And they were shocked and appalled

00:59:08.540 that I was dating, you know, a horrible conservative man. You know, he'd been in the

00:59:13.160 military. Like he, how, how could I be betraying my feminist friends? Um, so we just sort of,

00:59:21.180 you know, what, what can you do when you have friends like that? You just kind of have to peel

00:59:23.840 them off and you kind of distance from them. And we got, we got new friends.

00:59:28.600 Good call. Well, you know, I'm thinking about it because your book is so timely. I don't know if

00:59:32.920 you saw this clip that we did in the last segment of Nicole Wallace. Um, but this knee jerk instinct

00:59:40.080 to label somebody as an extremist or as hateful, um, just because they disagree with you on these

00:59:48.000 culture war issues is really dangerous and it's all too common. I go back to, I'm going to play

00:59:53.920 the clip in a second, but the Southern poverty law center used to be, used to be a well-respected

00:59:58.700 group that if they labeled somebody, a hate group, you'd be talking about the KKK. You know,

01:00:03.140 you'd be talking about a group we could all agree is a hate group. Then during the 2016 presidential

01:00:08.860 election, they labeled Ben Carson, an extremist. They put him on the extremist list. Um, and then

01:00:17.460 they took it, they took it down. And this was, uh, one of the quotes they took issue with that Ben

01:00:22.500 Carson had said, quote, if we can redefine marriages between two men or two women or any other way

01:00:27.080 based on social pressures, as opposed to between a man and a woman, we will continue to redefine it

01:00:31.820 in any way that we wish, which is a slippery slope with a disastrous ending as witnessed in the dramatic

01:00:37.220 fall of the Roman empire. So what you're hearing here is a Christian man who believes in the biblical

01:00:41.960 approach and definition of marriage. And for that, he got put on their extremist list. Ultimately,

01:00:48.980 they had to change that after the outrage. So that's 2014 that happened. Now, yesterday on MSNBC,

01:00:56.820 I'm going to show you, we can just play the normal clip. You guys, um, I'm going to show you what

01:01:01.160 happened between Nicole Wallace and the now head Margaret, huh? Is it Wang? Uh, who's now running

01:01:07.940 the Southern poverty law center and the exchange they had about what makes one hateful and includes

01:01:13.160 according to the SBLC moms for Liberty, a group I absolutely love. I'm sure you love them too.

01:01:19.260 Yeah. Yeah. Uh, but listen to this.

01:01:23.980 There are maybe 100 trans athletes. And to be clear as an ex Republican, I think they're only upset

01:01:30.960 about trans kids who identify as girls. How do you explain the gap between the reality

01:01:36.580 that there are less than a hundred trans kids playing sports and the rise and the, and the platforming

01:01:43.420 of hatred. This is very much a coordinated effort. There are actually 12 anti student inclusion groups

01:01:51.740 in the country that are pushing to ban certain books, ban curricula, punish teachers who talk about

01:01:59.340 inclusive education and generally make our school boards miserable. Your reaction to that and the, and

01:02:06.780 the targeting of a group like moms for Liberty. What's amazing is that if you took like an old

01:02:13.600 school feminist from the sixties or seventies, they would be considered a hate, a person full of hatred

01:02:20.400 for trying to promote biological women now. And when I talk about becoming more domestic, you know,

01:02:25.960 returning to sort of these like timeless essential things that make us human. I'm not talking about

01:02:31.300 returning women to like the medieval era. I'm talking about like, like things that were normal

01:02:35.420 in 1980s, you know, like these are not extremist views. And it's totally insane that just being a mom

01:02:42.060 and choosing to opt out of what they want us to believe that makes you a hater that makes you,

01:02:49.040 um, you know, a dangerous person. We're just trying to opt out. That's all we want.

01:02:54.220 These labels. I mean, I, I laugh them off. It's absurd. And I think most reasonable people would know

01:02:59.460 that, but I'll tell you, even when I was at NBC 2018, there were, this group was pitched to me as

01:03:06.620 well with the Southern poverty law center says that they're extremist. And I remember running around

01:03:09.980 saying, have you not been paying attention to the news for the past five years? Like they're the

01:03:14.240 extremists. We, I am not citing the Southern poverty law center in anything we do. So there are

01:03:19.760 people, you know, in the news, nevermind just lay people who have to go about their lives and live

01:03:24.940 their lives without paying attention to this nonsense who might actually believe, Oh wait,

01:03:29.540 moms for Liberty. That's an extreme. That's a hate group. Okay. Maybe we shouldn't invite them here.

01:03:33.520 Maybe I shouldn't click on that video. Meanwhile, this is a collection of moms. I've been down there

01:03:37.520 in Orlando, Florida who decided to run for school board, who decided to stand up against the COVID

01:03:41.900 craziness, who decided to stand up for biological girls and their rights. And now they've got to deal

01:03:47.760 with these kinds of labels. I mean, it really is. It's dangerous. Yeah. I mean, actually they are the

01:03:53.420 ones who inspired me to write this book and the title of my book, you know, during COVID when we

01:03:57.940 saw brave parents standing up to these school boards. And for the first time people realized

01:04:03.380 like, who the heck are these people on these school boards? Like, why are they, why do they

01:04:07.400 get to dictate our kids curriculum? Why are they putting, you know, really open pornography in

01:04:12.500 elementary schools? And then when I saw that some of the parents who fought back were being labeled

01:04:18.040 domestic terrorists by our government, I realized like we've gone like so far into crazy land.

01:04:26.340 And so that's why the title is ironic. I mean, we're here kind of holding the normal line

01:04:30.900 and they have gone so far over to the left. And so that's why they have to call us extremists. They

01:04:36.560 have to call us, you know, a hate group so they can normalize their own behavior, which we can all see

01:04:42.520 is, is really out of bounds. Mm-hmm. You know, we're in the middle of pride month. It's never

01:04:48.320 ending pride. It's always pride. It's pride here, pride infinity. And, um, some of these displays

01:04:55.800 right now, normally, like, look, I've been in New York for two decades. You go down to Chelsea on

01:05:01.060 Halloween, you're going to see some nudity. You're going to see some debauchery like you've never seen.

01:05:06.600 That's just the way it is. And I used to live there in Chelsea. So I know normally I don't care.

01:05:10.740 Um, but if you're going to bill your event as child friendly, which is what happened in West

01:05:15.920 Hollywood the other day and encourage children to show up and then behave like that you're about

01:05:20.500 to see in the video, I'm going to show you, you're going to get upset. You're going to get some moms

01:05:23.700 upset, including moms for Liberty, which you know, viewer warning, this is graphic, but this is what

01:05:29.040 was strolling down the street in West Hollywood as part of their pride parade for the listening

01:05:32.720 audience. You see a man in BDSM type bondage where another man is in front of him bent over

01:05:39.980 with a naked bottom and leather straps going up the crack. And the man in the back is

01:05:45.480 purporting to whip him with some sort of feathers or light leather. I can't tell what it is over and

01:05:51.860 over and over as the guy, the first guy sticks his naked butt out and they're just, who the hell does

01:05:58.580 this represent? Who gets away with calling this child friendly peachy? Yeah, it's funny. You know,

01:06:05.560 I used to live in Chelsea also, and I used to go to the pride parade. I mean, back in the day,

01:06:10.000 um, they were not for kids and it was just kind of like a fun party. I didn't have a problem with

01:06:15.280 it. No one's ever really had a problem with any of this stuff. No one's ever been protesting down at

01:06:19.540 like gay bars in West Hollywood. Really? No one cared. Everyone has, has been, you know, live and let

01:06:24.760 live even, you know, most conservatives, but this is, this is totally different. Um, this is openly

01:06:30.780 being promoted as for children. I think it started with like maybe when they brought sort of bringing

01:06:34.660 in the drag Queens and here's like the crazy horse, the Barbie flow for the, for promoting the new

01:06:39.620 movie, which I'm sure will appeal to children. Barbie, oh fun Barbie. So I could see Barbie and

01:06:44.400 a man's naked bottom getting whipped by another man. Keep going. Have they come out with a trans

01:06:48.980 Barbie yet? Because if not that we know that's actually, I think they might have come out with

01:06:53.440 a trans Barbie. Um, you know, that's where they're going. I mean, when you look at those pride

01:06:58.700 parades, uh, they really feel like this year they are, they're not pride parades. They're victory

01:07:03.680 parades. I think they feel like they've won the culture war and now they're celebrating. And, you

01:07:09.540 know, with good reason, I mean, they've gotten their, this ideology into every school LAUSD. I think

01:07:15.640 just yesterday, Los Angeles unified school district, one of the largest in the country just made it

01:07:21.380 required that every single school in LA County must teach the LGBTQ agenda. Like not just during

01:07:30.020 pride month, everyone must celebrate it all the time. And there is no opting out. It's the opposite

01:07:36.520 of what Ron DeSantis is doing saying you want to talk to your kids about being, being gay or lesbian. You

01:07:41.980 want to talk to your kids about being trans and what that means. Do it, do it all day long. But when

01:07:46.360 they're sitting in school, no, we're going to focus on reading and writing and history and

01:07:51.000 arithmetic and all the rest of it. And so he's been treated like a domestic extremist too. But

01:07:55.160 yeah, so that what you're saying is happening in LA is exactly the opposite. We will be in charge

01:07:59.120 of forcing this information on your child. We're, as you point out in your list of domestic

01:08:03.800 extremes, we don't believe that parents are a child's primary authority, um, and educators. We

01:08:09.140 believe we, we are, and we've heard this from top Democrats over and over, right? They're

01:08:13.140 everyone's children. They're all of our children. Yeah. It takes a village, you know, unfortunately

01:08:19.080 it's a village full of idiots and you need to get your kid out of there as fast as you

01:08:22.660 can. I mean, here in California, Gavin Newsom, another law, another wonderful law that I get

01:08:27.460 to live under. I think he legalized what people are calling, you know, child kidnapping where

01:08:32.420 California is a sanctuary state for any parent, any child whose parents do not want them to

01:08:38.060 transition. That child is welcome to do it here in California. Um, basically like a magnet

01:08:44.000 for, for, for confused children. And the parents have no legal say, and I'm pretty sure that's,

01:08:49.620 uh, child kidnapping, but that's that. And that's not extreme. Like what is, what is going on here?

01:08:57.800 Well, so here's the other thing. I mean, I agree with you. It's, it's beyond back when I was in

01:09:02.280 school, you know, they, they used to have like sex ed, but it would be age appropriate. You know,

01:09:06.780 you, you kind of got introduced to the concept of like menstruations coming when you were in

01:09:11.840 fifth grade, which I think is fine. A lot of girls get their periods in sixth grade. So might

01:09:15.360 as well get in there and start talking about, well, you wouldn't have any talk about like sex

01:09:18.560 at that young, young age that would come later. That was eighth grade. And then you had to have a

01:09:23.620 parental opt-in, you know, and then it got more explicit as you got older. And then sophomore year,

01:09:28.220 they'd get a little bit more explicit on contraception and so on. Um, now this is out of Hartford,

01:09:32.920 Connecticut. There, um, was a video that was shown a gender identity video that was shown to

01:09:37.860 elementary school students, elementary school students there. Um, and apparently the parents,

01:09:45.140 even in liberal Connecticut are mad because they say they were not told that this video was going to

01:09:51.560 be shown and that the kids are too young. I think we have a snippet of it. Here's Sot 6.

01:09:56.560 What pride means to me is just being myself and standing up for what I believe in. Pride means

01:10:03.540 you should be able to be free. All my life, I never really felt like a boy and I don't really

01:10:08.900 feel like a girl. So I'd rather be both. Pride means a person could be whoever they want to be

01:10:14.340 in their heart. The fact that I could say that I like to be called a boy makes me feel happy inside.

01:10:20.260 Okay. So to, to single digit children, they're talking about being quote non-binary that you don't

01:10:25.560 have to be a boy or a girl. You can be both. Uh, that is, that is totally insane. And I mean,

01:10:33.220 it just, it does seem to me that they are the, the transgender activists is very small,

01:10:39.940 but very vocal and extremely militant group has sort of taken everyone hostage. And they seem to

01:10:46.120 be using children now as human shields for their ideology, because if the kids are doing it, you know,

01:10:51.800 none of us want to hurt kids, we're all pro kid. And so the more kids they can get kind of into this

01:10:57.120 sort of trans machine, um, then the, the, the less, the less able we are to, to attack it or try

01:11:03.220 to fight back because then we're, we're fighting kids. We must hate children. And really we're, you

01:11:08.720 know, you and me and Ron DeSantis, we're child advocates and that makes us evil. And we, I mean,

01:11:17.560 just, it is like a terrorist tactic to use a kid to promote your own personal beliefs on this sort

01:11:23.660 of, you know, transgender ideology. I mean, how do we, how do we, how do we stop that? I mean,

01:11:29.080 I think parents just, if that, if that's in your school, you have to pull your child out. You don't

01:11:33.440 even have a choice anymore or you will lose your child. And this school is saying that that video

01:11:37.780 is appropriate from two years old, two years and up appropriate. Hell no. And we, by the way,

01:11:45.160 we got our hands on a picture that shows what was in the quote puberty kit that was being given to

01:11:52.380 the young children, boys and girls were given tampons and pads. What does a boy need a tampon

01:12:01.120 and a pad for? And I don't know what that, what is that bottle over there on the left? I, I hope

01:12:07.560 it's hand sanitizer and not lube. I don't know, but nothing's out of the back. Nothing's impossible

01:12:12.320 in today's day and age, but this is where it is. So you can be both a boy and a girl.

01:12:17.080 And here's your maxi pad for you little boys in the third grade.

01:12:22.380 You know, I, I have a friend who sends a child to Brentwood school, which is a kind of a very,

01:12:28.300 a very elite private school here in Los Angeles. And part of the sixth grade sex ed curriculum

01:12:33.900 includes a segment on black queer love. Okay. And these are 11 year old boys and girls. Like,

01:12:41.320 I don't even know what that means. And I think they are teaching them things that I can't even

01:12:45.240 utter on the air with you. Sexual activities. They're, they're showing them pictures. Anyone

01:12:50.820 who's looked at like, this is in California common core sex ed. It's extremely graphic. It's,

01:12:56.740 it's basically pansexual. You can do anything with anyone. Yeah. As long as you lose,

01:13:01.560 use the things in the puberty kit, as long as you're using protection and enough lube,

01:13:05.820 just have fun kids. Right. It's, it's, it's actually just really damaging. I mean, I know that

01:13:11.960 the boys who were subjected to this in this school were privately complaining that they were confused

01:13:17.340 and they were mortified. This is embarrassing. You actually are inflicting discomfort and upset

01:13:23.880 on kids who had none and who are not advanced by being handed a maxi pad as a 10 year old boy.

01:13:31.960 But actually just confused and upset by it. There's no care for those kids at all.

01:13:40.300 You know, they don't like us to call them groomers, but I don't really know

01:13:43.680 how else you could describe what they're doing. I mean, it's sort of like, you know,

01:13:47.640 the old fashioned groomers would hand a kid a dirty magazine and some candy,

01:13:51.500 but now we're grooming them a different way to be confused. And the last thing that we need little

01:13:56.820 boys to be confused on is the fact that they're boys. I mean, we have a, there is a war on boys.

01:14:02.320 We have a problem with people thinking boys are, you know, toxic masculinity is a bad thing. Boys

01:14:07.740 need to be more like girls. They need to be more feminized. And so the last thing in the world you

01:14:13.040 would want to give a little boy is a tampon kit. I mean, I have, I have young sons, like I can't even

01:14:18.020 imagine how, how cringe that would be for them. They would just never, they would be so humiliated

01:14:24.140 just to even know what that was for. What, what purpose could there be other than just to confuse

01:14:29.600 these like very young, innocent minds? Oh, I have a friend whose mother worked at

01:14:35.000 Planned Parenthood. My friend is, she's more right-leaning, but you know, she's got that in

01:14:39.160 her DNA. And when her kids were in their teens, she gave each one of them condoms. She's like,

01:14:45.320 I don't know what's going to happen. And I just, whatever, I just want them to have it in case.

01:14:49.780 And, um, I think the one was 20 and he took it. The one was 18 and she called the mom disgusting.

01:14:55.900 And the 16 year old was just kind of like, ew, you're gross. Like, right. So it's like the younger

01:15:00.360 you get, the more that these things make them uncomfortable, especially from a teacher or a

01:15:05.200 parent. And I can't even imagine if it had been a sanitary pad, a tampon. What the hell is he

01:15:13.220 supposed to do with that? Um, I do want to talk to you about, I loved your tweet. I love all of

01:15:18.340 your tweets, but I really loved the one about LGBTQIA. We always cut off the end because it gets

01:15:23.700 so ridiculous. Justin Trudeau with his like two spirit, blah, blah, blah. He could go on forever,

01:15:27.920 but you picked up on something that really bothers me too, which is the A LGBTQIA. And what the hell is

01:15:35.220 the A you have figured it out and have feelings about it. And I share them completely. Can you tell us?

01:15:40.440 Yeah. So I was curious too. And the A stands for asexual, which means you're not having sex with

01:15:48.660 anyone. You're not attracted to anyone. You basically don't have a sexual orientation.

01:15:55.580 Um, you're probably a, a man or a woman, or maybe you're a, whatever, but, but why is a there?

01:16:01.520 What's a viewing? Why is a there?

01:16:04.260 You're not engaged in it. And the funniest thing is I was researching the book and researching all

01:16:08.500 these new gender identities. There's one I love called allosexual. And I am here to say that I'm

01:16:14.240 an allosexual. I'm sure you are too, Megan, because an allosexual is the opposite of asexual.

01:16:19.900 So it's to represent anyone who's ever experienced attraction to another person.

01:16:25.500 So congratulations. You get your own. So do I we're diverse. Yes.

01:16:29.420 But I like to call myself a husband sexual because I made up my own, my own gender identity. Okay.

01:16:37.360 Cause you can do that now. And a husband sexual is means that I'm only attracted to people who

01:16:42.360 identify as my husband. That works. I like that. It's a very healthy fetish you have. I,

01:16:48.160 I appreciate that. Share that, share that my own family. I don't say it's good to talk about some of

01:16:53.860 the insanity with people who see it for what it is. And I think most people, I think most people on

01:16:58.460 the left also see it for what it is. But then when you try to call it out, you get pieces written

01:17:02.860 about you in the Washington post calling out your, how, what a dangerous centrist white male you are

01:17:07.580 like Steve Krakauer was telling us about earlier. All right. So all of this leads you to ultimately

01:17:11.740 decide to, to write, to put pen to paper. And you're very clever, very funny. Your writing is,

01:17:16.720 it just jumps off the page. It was a rip roaring read. Um, so what is the point of the book? Like what,

01:17:21.880 why are you writing it and what is the message to people?

01:17:25.780 Well, there's basically two reasons why I wrote the book. I mean, the main reason is that, you know,

01:17:30.420 I am trying to build morale among people who are sort of already on our side, who are already sort of

01:17:35.300 quasi domestic extremists. People are trying to resist all this stuff. Um, normal people,

01:17:40.220 your viewers, my readers, it's a way to build morale and let the people know that you're not alone.

01:17:44.860 Like you're right. Like whatever you're doing, like keep doing it, like double down, lean into your,

01:17:49.640 you know, your extremely domestic instincts. Those are all good things. You know, you're not a bad

01:17:54.840 person. Like we're, we're right. We're on the, we're on the right and we're going to win. Um,

01:18:00.040 and, uh, but of course the other reason is, you know, we have a huge crisis, you know, marriage rates

01:18:04.720 are plummeting, birth rates are plummeting, rates of depression and loneliness are skyrocketing.

01:18:10.860 And I mean, honestly, I think that this is due to just the victory, the victories that feminism

01:18:15.660 has had and, um, progressive ideology has had it's convinced people to not start families that being

01:18:21.980 child-free, you know, you have, you can't have kids. It will hurt the environment and kids and

01:18:27.280 husband will, will slow you down with that will interfere with your career. So I am hoping to maybe

01:18:32.880 try to peel off some of those young women and young men before they get completely like caught up in it

01:18:38.480 and encourage them to be just a little more domestic. I know you, you, you say it's not enough

01:18:44.800 now given these culture wars to not be a feminist. You men and women must become anti-feminists. So

01:18:53.740 what do you mean by that? Yeah. I mean, you know, people say like, do you mean that women shouldn't

01:18:58.900 be able to work? Like shouldn't be able to vote? Like, of course not. I'm a working mother. I have

01:19:04.140 always supported myself. Um, I mean, I stayed home when I, when I started having kids, obviously,

01:19:08.720 but I believe in women's equality. I believe women should be able to vote and have a voice. I mean,

01:19:14.320 obviously here I am, here you are. Um, that's very important. But, um, what I think about anti-feminism

01:19:22.180 is that the, the, the new wave of feminism, the latest wave of feminism is just has sort of jumped

01:19:28.260 the shark. You know, it's no longer about equality. It's no longer about, you know, being able to do

01:19:34.100 what you want. Now it's about depriving you of your femininity, depriving you, you know,

01:19:39.920 forcing you to sort of reject the things that actually make you a woman and make you just

01:19:44.820 innately female, you know, work forever, freeze your eggs. Don't get married. I mean, this is what

01:19:51.300 feminism is telling young women to do get on Tinder, stay on Tinder for 10 years. You know, I wrote about

01:19:56.900 the Tinder app. It had its 10 year anniversary. And there are some women who downloaded the app the

01:20:02.540 day it came out and 10 years later are still on Tinder. And according to the feminism, feminist

01:20:07.700 today, that's totally fine. No, it's sad. It's sad. It is sad. I mean, no man is going to marry the

01:20:14.800 woman who's given it away to everybody. Nobody wants to go there. My God. I mean, that's not

01:20:18.820 attractive and men like to conquer the, and if you're just utterly conquerable with absolutely

01:20:23.260 no challenge, they're not going to be coming back for the second go round. I mean, you need to pay

01:20:27.420 attention. There's a way to land a husband and that ain't it. The giving it up for free on Tinder,

01:20:31.580 like, Hey, yeah, here I am again, ready to have you. If you did it with me, how many other guys

01:20:35.120 you do it with? That's how men think. And they're not wrong. Right. And you know, like women are now

01:20:40.940 even posting on Tik TOK about their body counts, you know, the, the very long lists of all of their

01:20:45.900 sexual partners. And it becomes like, it's like a game, like who can have the most? Cause that means

01:20:51.600 you're hot or you're desirable or whatever. And you know, that lady, no one is pushing. It means

01:20:57.260 you're a slut. That's what it means. You're a slut. And there's nothing good that comes from

01:21:01.540 being a slut. Talk to Bridget Phetasy. She wrote the definitive piece on it as right person in that

01:21:08.040 department. And she was very honest about how, what she was after when she was having promiscuous

01:21:12.320 sex and how empty and sad she would feel time after time. And the guys weren't calling and it was

01:21:18.680 pathetic. She felt pathetic and how she turned it around. But it's like, you're right. Because the line

01:21:24.420 from the feminists is it's empowering to go on Tinder and just be able to have sex, like the way

01:21:29.140 18 year old guys want to have sex just with everything that moves. And it's not, we're built

01:21:33.320 differently. It's what, what young, some young man in college might find empowering will not feel the

01:21:38.460 same to young women. They've been sold a bag of goods. Yeah, exactly. I love that essay. I talked

01:21:43.840 about it in the book, Bridget's essay. I regret being a slut. Um, you know, we all, I think have our own

01:21:48.820 degree of regrets. Um, I certainly do before I kind of had my change of heart and realized that my

01:21:54.020 vocation, my calling was really as a, as a devoted wife and mother. Um, but I think that the message

01:22:00.600 to little girl, to young women is to increase that there won't be any consequences to increasing their

01:22:05.940 body counts. And really there are consequences. Women are not, like you said, we're not built like

01:22:11.320 men. You know, you may not get pregnant from an encounter, but there are emotional scars. There are,

01:22:17.760 there's bitterness, there's heartbreak. And at the end of the day, if you've spent your twenties kind of

01:22:22.740 wasting your best years on a string of young men who don't, don't love you, they don't remember

01:22:27.600 your name the next morning. How are you going to be someone's wife? You know, how can you then

01:22:32.500 shift so dramatically to being monogamous? I think it makes all of that so much harder.

01:22:38.160 And you're making yourself less attractive. Like I want these women to go back, go back. I'd love it,

01:22:44.900 you know, to the younger me who, trust me, before I got to the Fox news hair and makeup department,

01:22:49.560 I did not look like this. So I was okay, but I was nothing to write home about. Trust me.

01:22:55.200 My parents used to say, she's going to be with us for a long time. And I was happy because I love

01:22:59.980 them. I wanted to be with them. But anyway, my point is, you know, Bridget and I had a long

01:23:05.180 discussion about this on this podcast we did. We'll get you the number because it's well worth

01:23:08.140 listening to. But I was honest with her about how I actually don't have any regrets about my,

01:23:13.160 my behavior in this sex department. And she had many, and we talked about how we both

01:23:17.600 wound up in very different places about it.

01:23:19.560 And it wound up leading to, I had very different parents than she did. I had a very different

01:23:23.680 upbringing than she did. And I was just in a different mental space, but I am very happy

01:23:29.880 that even in my far less attractive shell, I never gave it up easily. Never. I, I always felt like

01:23:37.200 only a very few will deserve me and no one's getting it until they absolutely prove that they deserve me

01:23:44.820 and that I love this person. And this person loves me. And it's not some superficial,

01:23:48.540 like we've been together for a week and we feel really hot for each other. And I realize you can

01:23:51.780 make the case for that kind of sex. I get it. Um, I, at this point in my life, I'm very happy

01:23:57.020 that I approached it and I want young women to know this is an available lane for you too. You

01:24:01.540 don't, I realize waiting till marriage is an option. That's great. That's what my faith in

01:24:04.780 yours teaches. Wait, there's another lane where you can be very judicious in your selections and

01:24:10.560 keep it to people who, you know, you deeply care about or love. And I would suggest to you that will

01:24:15.160 only build self-esteem. It will only build your suitors. It will only make men want you more,

01:24:21.460 not less. And going the other route gives you exactly the opposite results of the ones you

01:24:26.880 most desire. Yeah. You know, I'm a victim of, um, the show sex in the city. Um, I remember telling

01:24:34.340 my mother, I'm moving to New York and she would, she herself said verbatim, it'll just, it'll be

01:24:38.840 just like sex in the city. You know, looking back like, wait, what, what, what was she expecting me

01:24:44.000 to do? Like live like Samantha, you know, maybe she's happy. Yeah. The shoes, the shoes were going

01:24:51.620 to be paved with Manolo Blahniks. Okay. That's what we all thought. Um, and luckily after I moved

01:24:56.120 to New York, I met my husband like literally a week later. So I was saved from that horrible fate.

01:25:01.700 But yeah, the message was when I was in college that you can, you know, hook up with whoever and

01:25:05.860 it won't matter. And I remember thinking like, maybe something's wrong with me because I don't

01:25:11.060 really have, I have no interest in doing that with someone who I know doesn't care about me,

01:25:15.700 who I maybe think is cute, but I know he doesn't like, he's not in love with me,

01:25:19.960 you know, and I was a romantic. I wanted someone to like fall in love with. And I thought something

01:25:24.980 was like deficient about me because I wasn't able to just sort of like, be like one of the guys and

01:25:30.240 just, you know, do whoever was around and there would be no, no problem. I didn't like that feeling.

01:25:35.400 And that's a very natural feeling. And that keeps us safe, actually, that feeling. And women have been

01:25:39.700 told to, to ignore that little voice inside their head. Yes. You're so right. It's so damaging.

01:25:45.620 Thanks to the feminists. So Steve Krakauer tells me that the original episode we do with Bridget,

01:25:51.520 which is very emotional. I have to say, I remember that one very vividly was episode 44,

01:25:56.300 right after we launched. She's another person I met via Twitter. And the episode in which we talk

01:26:01.040 about her, why I regret being a slut is episode 402. If you're taking a drive or something, those

01:26:07.040 recommend both of those to you. You'll, you'll love Bridget just as much as we do. More with Peachy

01:26:11.560 right after this quick break. Your business doesn't move in a straight line. Make sure

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01:26:38.600 employee benefits to learn more. Canada Life, insurance, investments, advice.

01:26:47.340 One of the, I'm not going to say I cried, but it did hit a nerve in a, in a good way,

01:26:53.560 like in an important way was the, the piece about, um, motherhood in the crosshairs and about this,

01:27:02.340 the secret, the unmentionable secret about babies. They want to be with their mother,

01:27:07.440 like all the time. That's the truth. And I know, you know, as you say, you've been a working mom and

01:27:14.260 you, now you're home with your kids, but look, I defend working mothers. Of course I am one,

01:27:21.460 but I'd be lying if I didn't say I had moments, especially after the birth of my third child,

01:27:27.720 where I was under pressure to go right back because we were about to launch my primetime show,

01:27:31.660 that it was too soon and that he needed me. And I would just bring him a lot to work.

01:27:38.640 And I put his little body on this little couch in my office and he'd sleep. And I think

01:27:43.940 this is, this feels wrong. I, I would be lying if I didn't say I had many of those moments and it's

01:27:50.980 okay to talk about. It's not abandoning your, your chose, your choices in life, you know,

01:27:56.340 your commitment to work, whatever, but it's important because those babies do need their

01:28:00.840 mom. Yeah. And it's, it's funny, even though let's say you have to go back to work and you

01:28:07.320 have to leave your, your child just because you have to do it. Does it mean that it's the best way

01:28:12.080 to do it or that it's good for anyone? It's, it's a hard thing to do, but as a woman, you're not

01:28:17.300 allowed to talk about that because that makes it, you're kind of like betraying the sisterhood.

01:28:21.620 You're betraying the girl boss, you know, sisterhood. How, how dare you prioritize your,

01:28:28.640 your newborn over your job? And we fought so hard for the right to get back to work. Now you want to

01:28:34.320 give all that up. And so, you know, if you have to do it, at least we can start talking honestly

01:28:39.420 about what the effect of that is. I mean, yes, there's a cost to like, you know, taking off more

01:28:44.600 unpaid leave, but there's also a cost emotionally to a new mother and a baby.

01:28:49.600 Yes. I, I just, I just had this debate on line. Somebody had tweeted out something like it was a

01:28:56.300 guy. Uh, I think he's with, um, Babylon B, which I love. And he tweeted out something about how he

01:29:02.740 loves having a stay at home mom as his wife and how the house is great and people are really happy.

01:29:09.040 And like, it really does lead to good things. And it irked me slightly because there was in there,

01:29:15.400 I felt a bit of judgment on moms who make a different choice. Like moms like me, right.

01:29:19.460 Who work and have kids. And I, I tweeted out something in response, like I'm a working mom.

01:29:26.900 We're, we're doing effing great. Something like that, because this is where I object where there

01:29:32.560 is like a judgment that people who choose to do it a different way have done it wrong. You know,

01:29:37.120 cause I look at my own kids. I've been working since all of them were born. They're great. I mean,

01:29:42.060 anybody who backed me up on how well adjusted and happy my children are, how intact our family

01:29:45.880 relationships are, how tight we are. And there's a reason for that. Um, one is I've nurtured it,

01:29:53.300 you know, the relationships. And two is I did dial it back. You know, I didn't get too far into this

01:29:58.860 experiment without saying, Oh, holy shit, the balance is the wrong way. And I'm spending too much

01:30:03.060 time away from them. And that's not good enough for any of us. So I, you know, I also did make an

01:30:08.500 adjustment when I recognized I was too far on the other side when in doing the balance of work and

01:30:13.940 motherhood. I know that's true for a lot of women. Yeah. I mean, you know, I think that, you know,

01:30:21.280 liberals love to talk about being pro-choice and I think that women should get also get the choice

01:30:25.860 to spend more time with their children. Um, if they want to, I mean, I understand like we live in

01:30:31.380 the real world. People have to work. I earn a living. I get it, but we can all agree at least that,

01:30:36.960 you know, spending more time with a baby is better as a mother than spending less time.

01:30:42.600 And that's just, you know, that's just like stark biology. That's just like, you know,

01:30:46.280 that's just like, you know, trust the science that is the science and being able to acknowledge

01:30:50.780 that openly and really then respect the sacrifice that women who do work and who have to spend time

01:30:56.440 away from their children are making. I mean, they do not get that, that respect. And, um,

01:31:02.440 I don't want to judge working mothers. Like I said, I have always been a working mother,

01:31:06.280 a working woman. Since I had a bunch of kids, I worked from home. Um, when my then four-year-old

01:31:12.520 four-year-old was, um, in preschool, I got an offer to go back into the office at a very large

01:31:17.000 entertainment company. And, you know, I would get a little bit sad when women, young women would come

01:31:22.560 in after having a baby and they would drop their six week old off at a daycare and pump in these like

01:31:28.320 weird lactation rooms. And my sister was a lawyer and she had to pump milk in the bathroom stall at her

01:31:34.280 law firm, you know, and those things are not conducive to anyone's health.

01:31:38.920 I remember being out in Iowa for the Iowa caucuses with the breast pump. I was on the air for like

01:31:44.420 10 hours one night because they lost the ballots in some truck. I know Brett Barron, I never got off

01:31:50.040 the air and my breasts were like, they were, they were hurt. And I finally got out of there and, you

01:31:57.220 know, you had to use the breast pump and then poor Abby. I'm like, Abby, she's running around my

01:32:01.860 breast milk. She's had the weirdest resume of anybody in America. She had a planned birthday

01:32:05.980 party for a dog, carry the breast milk. I hope for everybody out there that you get an Abby in

01:32:10.320 your life. Cause it makes all life choices easy. I need one. Yeah. You do. Everyone needs one.

01:32:15.380 Um, but yeah, so, so you have a chapter part three. It's actually more than a chapter.

01:32:19.720 What winning looks like, what, what winning look, what does winning look like?

01:32:24.640 That's a great question. Everyone wants to know, you know, this is a practical guide to winning

01:32:28.300 the culture war. So like, how do we win and how soon can we win? And everybody wants this to be

01:32:33.180 one, you know, next Tuesday. And what I try to tell people is like, yes, I absolutely think we're

01:32:38.780 going to win. I think we're seeing a, a big counter revolution, a big pushback against the

01:32:44.280 left, just like, you know, accelerating all these things. People are finally having, having, have had

01:32:50.020 enough and they're finally standing up. Um, but winning will require a few more of us to, um,

01:32:57.040 kind of remove themselves from mainstream American culture and the sort of like mainstream

01:33:01.560 lifestyle. They want us to live, which are no longer mainstream. We're going to have to kind

01:33:06.640 of win over a few converts to our side and encourage people to yes, get married, like in your twenties,

01:33:14.060 literally like start a family a little bit younger, maybe don't stop at two kids, maybe at a third kid,

01:33:19.900 if you're able to have children, you know, just slowly by slowly by sure. And surely we will win.

01:33:25.140 It's just, they had a hundred year headstart on us and we're just really getting started now.

01:33:30.220 So it's going to be a long-term, a long-term battle, but yeah, I think we are going to win.

01:33:34.420 It's funny. Cause I was just talking to Doug, my husband about the gender madness. And, um,

01:33:39.980 the, there, there was, the doctor was basically saying, my kids are getting to that point where

01:33:44.300 the doctor wants to have like the solo comfort consultation with them. I had that. I think,

01:33:48.540 right. They, they want to find out if the kid's having sex or, you know,

01:33:51.440 on drugs without mom sitting there, which I get, that's fine. And Doug was saying to me,

01:33:55.640 well, what if, you know, what are they, what do they start to like ask him? Are you sure you're

01:33:58.820 a girl? Are you sure you're a boy? And I laugh with my husband, like, I'm pretty sure our kids

01:34:03.960 are perfectly inoculated against that particular drug. Um, they'll be good, but it does require

01:34:10.620 effort. Parents understanding that the school systems nine times out of 10 are against you.

01:34:15.200 And if you're not homeschooling, you got to start working on inoculating your kid,

01:34:19.120 not just against the trans madness, but the race shaming that they do. The, you know, my, my,

01:34:26.000 my kids at my old school in New York city, my boys were forced to write essays and why they're

01:34:30.520 feminists, which I know you understand is not good given what you write about feminism in the book,

01:34:36.100 in which we partially discussed, but you really have to keep them alert to all these things.

01:34:41.220 Yeah. I mean, you have to be careful. You have to tell your, your preschooler, your little boy,

01:34:44.900 you know, don't touch the paint crayons, you know, because they might, they're scouting,

01:34:48.880 they're looking for people for boys who might be a little bit feminine, you know,

01:34:52.360 don't draw a picture of a flower. I mean, it's gotten crazy, but like you said,

01:34:56.220 that actually happened to me at our pediatrician's office. It was my 16 year old son's checkup.

01:35:01.040 And he was literally like in his basketball uniform. He works out. It's very, very obvious

01:35:05.940 that he is a boy. Okay. And the pediatrician kicked me out of the room. This is before I knew

01:35:10.580 this, what happened. And now I don't let them do that anymore. She kicked me out of the room and

01:35:15.080 she asked him, are you comfortable with your gender? Oh my God. So it really did go there.

01:35:20.920 It really happened. I like, that was verbatim. And then she told him about safe sex.

01:35:27.560 All right. I'm a safe sex. I get like, that's okay. Maybe they don't want to talk,

01:35:31.100 but that's interesting. It really did happen with the gender thing. It was even when I was there,

01:35:34.860 some of the questions were, and my daughter's 12, you know, she's sweet. She's young, but

01:35:38.900 they were like, how many times in the last two weeks have you felt alone? And like, there's no

01:35:45.200 hope. And my daughter goes, what? She has no clue. I'm like, yards. She's trying to figure out

01:35:53.160 whether you're depressed. She's like, I'm not depressed. Okay. Move on. But they're very

01:35:57.280 probative. Now they wanted to know if we had a gun in the home. We've done stories about that, but

01:36:00.960 man, those pediatricians, they're all up in your business.

01:36:03.720 Yeah. It's very, I had a very interesting conversation the last time I was there because

01:36:08.420 the questionnaires have been getting more and more detailed. Like you said, these mental health

01:36:12.140 questionnaires, you know, there was like a dropdown list of different genders for my six-year-old

01:36:19.180 daughter to choose from intersex and, you know, everything. And like, they know she's a girl and

01:36:24.960 it does feel like they're kind of like probing for weak spots in a kid where they could offer you a

01:36:30.680 prescription for something. Maybe you're depressed. Maybe you need ADHD medication,

01:36:34.820 you know, and it's just this sort of feels like this process of chipping away

01:36:38.540 at the parents' common sense. It's important. It's, it's good. You're calling attention to this,

01:36:44.480 like all these issues, because some aspects of your life may have a red flag on them and

01:36:48.940 you don't know it. You need, you need somebody to alert you to the fact that this is,

01:36:54.000 this is an indoctrination thing to pay attention. And this is part of the prescription offered in

01:37:00.100 domestic extremists. The domestic, what's the subtitle again? I love the subtitle. Hold on.

01:37:04.900 A practical guide to winning the culture war. Yes, we all need that. Peachy, it's so nice to meet

01:37:11.600 you. I hope this is the first of many. Thank you so much, Megan. I'm a huge fan. Such a pleasure to be

01:37:16.760 here. Oh, thank you. All right. Don't forget by now, domestic extremists, a practical guide

01:37:22.240 to winning the culture war. Tomorrow. We have an interesting guest, Chadwick Moore,

01:37:26.460 the Tucker Carlson biographer, and we will have an update on what's happening with Tucker Carlson

01:37:31.820 and Fox news. So don't miss that. Chadwick Moore will be here tomorrow, which is Thursday. My God,

01:37:39.200 it's Wednesday already. Here we go. Thank you so much for listening.

01:37:45.440 Thanks for listening to the Megan Kelly show. No BS, no agenda, and no fear.

01:37:52.240 Canada Life has flexible plans for companies of all sizes.

01:38:22.240 So it's easy to find a solution that works for you. Visit Canada Life dot com slash employee

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The Megyn Kelly Show - June 07, 2023

CNN CEO's Shock Firing, and Trans Ideology in Schools and Sports, with Peachy Keenan, Steve Krakauer and More ｜ Ep. 567

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