The Megyn Kelly Show - CNN Identity Crisis, and How Boys Become Men, with Jesse Kelly, and New Nancy Guthrie Timeline Questions, with James Hamilton and Maureen O'Connell ｜ Ep. 1283

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00:00:27.220 call 1-866-531-2600 or visit connexontario.ca. Welcome to The Megyn Kelly Show, live on Sirius

00:00:33.280 XM channel 111 every weekday at New East. Hey everyone, I'm Megyn Kelly. Welcome to The Megyn

00:00:44.760 Kelly Show and happy Friday. So great. Are you getting nicer weather where you are? It's getting

00:00:50.300 nice here in the Northeast. Like we had a 70 degree day yesterday, which is just incredible.

00:00:56.020 such a gift, and then the Lord taketh away. Tomorrow it's going back to, like, 30. But I

00:01:01.800 enjoy, I enjoy just the breakthrough, right? It's like the people who joke online about how, like,

00:01:05.760 they're like, I don't have seasonal depression. And then, you know, skipping through the fields

00:01:10.240 as soon as we hit 60, that, yeah, I feel it too. In any event, we've got breaking news this morning

00:01:17.180 to bring to you on Iran, plus more attacks on conservatives. I mean, the right wing is ripping

00:01:23.580 itself apart, really not helpful towards midterms or beyond. But first, new reports of tensions

00:01:31.240 between Israel and the United States as this war continues with no end in sight. Axios News

00:01:37.740 today reporting that Vice President J.D. Vance is expected to be the top U.S. negotiator in

00:01:44.120 potential peace talks between the Americans and the Iranians. As we've been reporting,

00:01:49.360 the vice president has long been a skeptic of foreign interventions in general. And we believe

00:01:53.760 the Iran war in particular, the way Trump described it publicly was he was not as enthusiastic as

00:02:01.160 other members of the cabinet. He was enthusiastic, but not as enthusiastic. That's how Trump put it.

00:02:06.540 But I think we all know that J.D. Vance has been more part of the isolationist wing,

00:02:12.120 restrainer wing of the Republican Party. And I think he's handled this whole thing very well.

00:02:18.700 It would be a massive error to contradict the president or counterman the president publicly.

00:02:25.940 He is there to be supportive of the president.

00:02:30.220 I felt that way about Kamala Harris when they made her the border czar. 0.99

00:02:34.940 Like, her job at that time was not to come out and say, geez, Joe Biden has really screwed this up.

00:02:39.040 But then when she ran for president and got asked by the view of all places, is there anything you would have done differently?

00:02:44.980 that was the time to say, you know, the border wasn't great. That isn't exactly how I would have

00:02:50.600 handled it, but I understood why my boss did it that way. Whatever. You defend the boss,

00:02:55.640 but then you carve your own lane. I think that's where it's going right now for J.D.,

00:03:00.200 because what we're hearing now is, first of all, J.D. Vance was chosen to do this negotiation

00:03:05.000 because he's one of the only ones they say would have credibility with the Iranians who will know

00:03:09.820 what we know, which is he's more of the restrainer when it comes to this war and wasn't in favor of

00:03:14.440 it. Secondly, they don't trust Whitcoff and Kushner, who were stringing them along as we were about to

00:03:20.300 bomb them to smithereens. So the word of our lead negotiators is no longer good. And then thirdly,

00:03:28.700 there are reports today that Axios, from Axios, that Israel is already objecting to Vance.

00:03:36.180 Shocking. I'm shocked, shocked. Because he's not pro-war enough, they're reporting that

00:03:41.680 Vice President Vance and the Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu reportedly had a tense phone call on Monday.

00:03:48.600 Axios is reporting this.

00:03:50.460 And all I can think of is Vance in the White House in the Oval with Zelensky and sort of how he put Zelensky in his place.

00:03:58.720 It sounds like he just did that to Bibi Netanyahu.

00:04:01.460 The vice president allegedly pressed Netanyahu on his many rosy predictions to our president about how this war would play out.

00:04:12.300 Specifically, Vance calling Netanyahu out on the fact that there seems to be no chance that a popular uprising will topple the regime as the prime minister of Israel promised our president.

00:04:26.740 So Netanyahu looking at him saying, what happened to your rosy predictions about how the people were going to rise up in the street and see this regime change thing through to the end?

00:04:35.060 It didn't happen.

00:04:36.620 Axios quoting an unnamed U.S. source, quote, before the war, Bibi really sold it to the president as being easy, as regime change being a lot likelier than it was.

00:04:47.340 And the VP was clear eyed about some of those statements.

00:04:50.860 Well, good for him.

00:04:52.100 It's delightful to think about someone holding him to account for the lies he told that got us into this war.

00:05:00.480 Stop with President Trump's decision.

00:05:03.000 I'm aware.

00:05:03.680 But someone talked him into it.

00:05:05.720 And those people should be held to account.

00:05:08.820 As this thing goes south, we need to know exactly who talked him into it and what representations were made to convince the president that this was a good idea.

00:05:18.200 Who? Who specifically?

00:05:19.780 The names we know are Bibi Netanyahu, first and foremost, Lindsey Graham, equally to blame.

00:05:28.000 We know from The Wall Street Journal report that Mark Thiessen of Fox News and General Jack Keene were major advocates of the war.

00:05:35.280 OK, like those guys, but they were they appear to have been very wrong that this was a good idea and we could keep going.

00:05:45.440 Mark Levin, chief among them, he says now, oh, I wasn't me every night, every night on Fox News out there urging the president to do this.

00:05:55.440 And then he had a meeting with him in June where we know he denies it now.

00:05:59.840 We know he pushed him for this. Ben Shapiro was out on his show every day pushing this war like there were very prominent activists on the right who were practically frothing at the mouth for this thing.

00:06:14.780 And now that it's not only going poorly, but the president's poll numbers are in a precipitous freefall.

00:06:21.840 We'd love to see some accountability. Who who promised him what?

00:06:27.020 And this is a great start, having the vice president speak directly to Bibi Netanyahu and say, you promised regime change was going to be easy.

00:06:38.140 You promised the Iranians were going to rise up in the streets and see it through. 1.00

00:06:42.740 That hasn't happened.

00:06:44.840 And the United States is suffering as a result.

00:06:47.440 And the report is that the response by the Israelis to our vice president doing that was to have a hit piece planted on J.D. Vance in an Israeli newspaper that is owned by American, but Israel first mega donor, Miriam Adelson.

00:07:08.200 So the response is to start drip, drip, drip, planning negative hit pieces on J.D. Vance.

00:07:13.800 Good luck. Good luck with that. Okay. Good luck. We'll see how that works out for you.

00:07:18.520 Now, related to that, we have to tell you about a story that has not gotten much attention,

00:07:22.020 but has massive implications about war and peace and what exactly we are fighting for in the Middle

00:07:27.220 East. All right. No one's talking about this. We're going to walk you through it. Last Thursday,

00:07:31.840 March 19th, Prime Minister Netanyahu held a press conference. NBC's Richard Engel,

00:07:38.420 the network's longtime chief foreign correspondent, he knows his stuff, got to ask a question.

00:07:44.660 Now, this is the official Israeli government press office's feed of that press conference.

00:07:53.200 Listen to what went down. You're going to think something happened with your audio

00:07:57.680 feed from the meghan kelly show that's not that's not what's happened at all this is straight from

00:08:03.880 the source and how it aired through this israeli government press office feed watch

00:08:09.700 next question from richard engel from nbc news good to see you again

00:08:15.060 just hold on

00:08:18.980 he's he's clearly asking him a question but there's no sound

00:08:24.380 netanyahu's listening well i think we have concrete goals uh how to do it uh how to end

00:08:32.300 it we wanted as i said decimate the ballistic missile what what happened why do we get part

00:08:39.820 of the answer and no question it's really not that helpful when you can't hear the question

00:08:45.620 the reporter asked well they muted richard engel they muted a member of the american press

00:08:52.400 at a press conference in the middle of the war. That's what the Israelis did. Now the story did 0.77

00:09:00.040 not get any attention at the time. But on Wednesday, we heard from Richard Engel himself

00:09:04.860 on the Sky News podcast called The World with Richard Engel and Yalda Hakim. And we got

00:09:11.860 to see and hear the question. Many Americans do believe that Israel dragged the United States

00:09:17.880 in this war and is now pulling the rest of the world along with it. How do you see this ending?

00:09:26.120 Well, I think we have concrete goals how to do it, how to end it. We wanted, as I said,

00:09:32.260 decimate the ballistic missile program, which we're doing, decimate the nuclear program,

00:09:37.640 which we're doing. This canard that we dragged the United States into it is not just a canard.

00:09:44.580 It's ridiculous. How about that? So he brought up the widespread belief. It's not a belief. It is 0.96

00:09:53.660 a fact. It's a fact that Netanyahu talked Trump into joining this war and now is trying to recruit

00:10:00.820 even more countries into the conflict. And to make matters worse, Richard Engel had a follow-up

00:10:05.600 question, and that did not make Netanyahu's handlers too happy either. Here's Engel explaining

00:10:12.480 what happened next. After I asked my question, they, the handlers, they took the microphone

00:10:17.620 away from me and I was like, well, I'm not, not done yet. I didn't exactly ask, however,

00:10:24.020 uh, why the Israel's, no, no, I think I only figured out this is a serious subject. This is

00:10:29.000 a serious, my question, why don't, this is a world war and peace here. There are oil,

00:10:36.920 Well, there are oil fields around the world that are burning.

00:10:40.520 Gas prices are going up.

00:10:42.440 The war is popular here in Israel.

00:10:44.040 It is not popular with many Americans.

00:10:46.500 So my question was, how do you see this ending?

00:10:49.400 Not why, not even when.

00:10:51.480 What do you imagine the day after will look like?

00:10:53.760 Well, we have achievable goals in order to have the flow of oil.

00:10:57.920 Just have oil pipelines going west through the Arabian Peninsula,

00:11:03.800 right up to Israel, right up to our Mediterranean ports.

00:11:06.180 and you've just done away with the choke points for forever.

00:11:10.120 That is definitely possible.

00:11:13.000 This is unbelievable, but totally believable.

00:11:16.640 I mean, this is obvious media manipulation by the Israelis, 1.00

00:11:19.460 and you should not trust what they say.

00:11:22.640 You should not trust what they're putting out.

00:11:24.920 Obviously, they are lying and manipulating the American press.

00:11:29.020 Imagine what they do to their own press in order to make sure Netanyahu looks good.

00:11:33.540 and the attempts by the American reporters

00:11:36.580 to hold him to account

00:11:37.860 aren't seen by a wider audience.

00:11:42.000 Do you really find it so hard to believe

00:11:43.560 that they dropped a hit piece on J.D. Vance

00:11:45.520 after he confronted Netanyahu directly

00:11:48.420 about his rosy promises that are not coming true

00:11:51.900 as American soldiers die? 1.00

00:11:54.400 This is like, this is Pravda-esque type shit. 0.99

00:11:59.400 Jesse Kelly is here today. 0.99

00:12:00.600 He is the host of The Jesse Kelly Show

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00:13:17.380 supplements. Joy and Blokes, healthcare that actually listens. All right, Jesse, great to see

00:13:24.140 you so i'm sorry but like this is bullshit like an israeli prime minister who interferes in our 0.95

00:13:31.440 foreign policy to get us to join him in this war and then when an american reporter asks him about 0.95

00:13:36.840 it says many americans do believe israel dragged the u.s into the war and is now putting the rest

00:13:41.280 of the world along pulling the rest of the world along with it how do you see this ending it

00:13:45.920 disappears it magically disappears thanks to the israeli government press office muting him

00:13:51.940 Your thoughts on it?

00:13:53.240 Well, sorry to filibuster, as I often do when you have me on, Megan, and thank you for having

00:13:57.740 me back.

00:13:58.280 But my thoughts on it are this.

00:14:00.500 I think a lot of people are ignoring or not just acknowledging a very practical reality

00:14:06.500 of both this war and so many wars throughout human history.

00:14:10.580 And that practical reality is allies are often allies during a war because they share a common

00:14:18.040 enemy. And oftentimes, all the time, allies do not share the same end goal in said war because

00:14:27.440 they are allied up to a point. And then after that point, they see different endings in it.

00:14:33.540 You could go through any war, I mean, ancient times, any war throughout history where you have

00:14:38.220 these allegiances. And that's what happens here. The United States of America hates Iran. Iran

00:14:44.020 hates America. Israel hates Iran. Iran hates Israel. We are allied with Israel and the fact 0.58

00:14:51.500 that we do not like Iran. We wanted the mullahs out, all these other things. We are allied in them 0.98

00:14:57.600 up to that point. The Trump administration has to consider this. 66% of Americans believe he is not

00:15:04.720 focused enough domestically. The Trump administration is the Trump administration because we want people

00:15:10.640 who are not MAGA hardcores, the Maha people, young men who are disaffected by the economy.

00:15:16.300 Donald Trump won the popular vote because of those people, not because I voted for him. I was always

00:15:20.320 voting for him anyway. Donald Trump is currently 60, 60 points underwater with the people who put

00:15:28.280 him in the White House. Those are people angry about the economy, 60. If those numbers were the

00:15:34.000 same, it would be President Kamala Harris. They don't think he's focused enough domestically.

00:15:38.560 Therefore, no matter what, we're in this now, Donald Trump needs an off-ramp.

00:15:44.160 He has to get out and come home. 1.00

00:15:46.700 All right, we killed the Ayatollah, we blew up a bunch of Iranians, sounds good, screw those scumbags anyway. 1.00

00:15:52.260 The political reality is he must stop this and come home, and he knows it. 1.00

00:15:56.860 He's not some moron, he can read all the poll numbers, all these people do all day is read poll numbers. 0.86

00:16:01.400 He has to end it and come home. 0.93

00:16:03.160 On the flip side, Israel views this, and they're probably very correct about this, as their last and best shot at getting rid of Iran, which has plagued them permanently. 1.00

00:16:16.340 They don't view this as an option to end it.

00:16:19.780 They don't want to end it because they don't think they're ever going to get another shot.

00:16:23.040 And they're probably right about that for a variety of reasons, which we can get into.

00:16:25.980 They're probably never going to get another shot like this with American Big Brother dropping tomahawks on Iran every single day.

00:16:32.040 so we are allied up to a point but if you know if if i'm if if you're my neighbor megan you live

00:16:38.700 right next door and the neighbor across the street keeps letting his dog poop in our yard

00:16:42.740 and we join together and we say what we're going to do is we're going to get our dogs to go poop

00:16:46.420 in his yard yeah we'll be allies and then you say well yeah then we'll burn his house down with his 0.73

00:16:50.980 family in it wait whoa whoa whoa we were well we were allies to a point now you're taking it too 0.91

00:16:57.300 far. The different end goals is what we're dealing with here. Yes. Well, well put. This is so I'm

00:17:06.960 against this war, as the audience knows, but I'm I'm against it for many reasons. Practically

00:17:13.700 speaking, the political fallout from the war is front and center in terms of long term problems

00:17:23.160 for America, because we cannot have, as you call them, the communists return to power.

00:17:29.480 And that's exactly what's about to happen. The polling for the president on the Iran war

00:17:35.020 is horrific. It is horrific by any measure. He keeps looking at the limited polling that people

00:17:42.700 who call themselves MAGA overwhelmingly approve of the war. That is no more than 30 percent of

00:17:48.780 the population. It's no more than 30 percent of the population. So he may have 92 percent of those

00:17:54.040 people, but it's no more than 30 percent of the population. We have 70 plus percent outside who

00:18:00.300 are not MAGA, who are very against this war. And they vote that you cannot win an election with

00:18:06.320 just the people describing themselves as MAGA, especially when Trump is not going to be on the

00:18:10.160 ballot in 2028. He's not going to be on the ballot in the midterms. So the MAGA faithful,

00:18:14.100 that what motivates them? Donald Trump. He's not going to be in either of these ballots.

00:18:19.020 So and we've seen before that he doesn't necessarily have the coattails for for other

00:18:23.620 people who say they're like in his mold to get them over the line. You need Republican Party

00:18:28.440 support and independence to win elections. And that is still a golden rule. So listen to Harry

00:18:33.920 Enten describing President Trump and the approval on the Iran war sought for when there was this

00:18:40.140 slew of initial polls that came out. The Fox News poll was the one initial poll that did not show

00:18:45.900 that the war was unpopular. That has changed. Trump has lost his one good poll when it comes

00:18:50.480 to the Iran war, because just take a look here. Net approval rating of U.S. military action in

00:18:54.700 Iran. In early March, it broke even, right? Zero points. What that essentially means is 50 percent 0.92

00:18:59.680 approved, 50 percent disapproved. But down it goes. Look at this now. The net approval rating

00:19:05.080 for the U.S. military action in Iran, negative 16 points, just 42% of the American public approve

00:19:11.140 of it, 58% disapprove. So now we're looking at basically every single poll in which the clear

00:19:18.800 plurality or majority of Americans disapprove of the U.S. military action in Iran. Trump can no

00:19:24.560 longer point to a poll that actually shows that among the general public at large, that the

00:19:29.260 American public actually approve of this military action. But look at Trump's handling of it. It's

00:19:34.040 even worse oh my okay trump's net approval rating of iran look at this overall 28 points underwater

00:19:41.620 very very unpopular donald trump's actions are when it comes to iran and look at those in the

00:19:47.300 center of the electorate look at independence negative 58 points 58 points underwater

00:19:54.860 i mean all right so go ahead there's a couple ugly addendums i'll add to this and i'm sorry

00:20:03.020 It is ugly. It is what it is. First of all, we have to understand, anybody with two eyes and two ears can see just from what Harry just laid out for us.

00:20:12.860 This never goes up. Those numbers don't change direction. Every single day now, they get worse.

00:20:18.380 There is nothing in the world that could happen that will reverse those numbers.

00:20:22.540 So every day, tomorrow, we will wake up, they'll be worse than they are today.

00:20:26.360 That's the trajectory of it. That's one thing that's really, really ugly.

00:20:30.260 Another part of it that's really ugly, and this may be the ugliest part, as I have explained on my show over and over and over again, whatever you feel about this war, it has always been easy to start a war.

00:20:44.300 If I decide I want to have an argument with my wife, she says hi, by the way, Megan, she loves you.

00:20:49.160 If I decide I want to go home tonight after work and have an argument with my wife, I can most definitely do that.

00:20:54.560 I've been married 19 years.

00:20:55.820 That's quite easy.

00:20:56.720 I can fire off an argument.

00:20:58.120 but can i stop that argument and get all lovey-dovey with her whenever i want no that that's

00:21:05.320 not how that works i because now we've got two parties now we're at war she's offended it's easy

00:21:10.920 to go over there with our military our incredible military and our might and bomb the iranians back 0.99

00:21:17.220 to the stone age that is easy now companies are scared to send oil through the strait of

00:21:23.060 Hormuz. Now there are mines. Now there are things outside of our control now that it has been

00:21:29.560 started. Donald Trump is on the highway. He needs an off-ramp. He has to pee. But as someone who

00:21:36.180 has driven in Montana many, many times before, I will tell you there is not always an off-ramp

00:21:40.980 available to you when you have to have one. Now there's a chance we are stuck. He called for a

00:21:49.400 ceasefire now until April 6th. I'm going to back off these power plants. Everyone's going to back

00:21:54.120 off. We're trying to work out a deal. He's got J.D. Vance burning up the phone lines over there.

00:21:59.040 Let's work out a deal. What if Iran decides they don't want a deal? Iran's military cannot defeat 0.63

00:22:06.200 Donald Trump in the United States military. The one weapon Iran has, the most powerful weapon they 0.66

00:22:12.260 have, is the one we cannot bomb. And that is the state of the United States economy. Iran knows it. 0.71

00:22:18.500 They can read polling numbers the exact same way Donald Trump knows it.

00:22:22.180 Iran knows the longer Trump is here, the less popular he is, the less popular he is.

00:22:26.920 The worse we get wiped out at the midterms, the worse we get wiped out at the midterms,

00:22:30.920 the more neutered Donald Trump and his administration are for the final two years.

00:22:35.600 Iran's greatest weapon is the United States economy, and they have deployed said weapon. 0.96

00:22:40.140 That's a fact.

00:22:41.900 And they're making money in Iran right now.

00:22:45.760 Before the war, Iran was exporting 1.1 million barrels of oil at $47 a barrel.

00:22:52.440 Right now, they're exporting 1.5 million barrels of oil at $120 a barrel.

00:22:59.220 Like, Iran is actually making money because they've taken over the Strait of Hormuz. 0.91

00:23:03.400 They control it.

00:23:04.460 The Saudi and the other countries in the Gulf are not exporting their oil.

00:23:08.900 But Iran is. 0.80

00:23:09.880 Iran's letting its own ships go through.

00:23:11.960 And they're getting their oil out.

00:23:13.260 And now we we seem to have a new goal in ending this war, which is we need to open the Strait of Hormuz.

00:23:23.580 You mean the Strait that was open before we began the bombing campaign?

00:23:27.920 I mean, it was open. There was no problem with Strait of Hormuz.

00:23:30.820 Like it was fine. The reason it's closed is because we decided to start a war.

00:23:34.560 And this is the only thing these guys can control and they know it and they're doing it rather effectively.

00:23:40.800 And you can hear Trump's frustration as he's like, NATO should get over there and help us.

00:23:46.400 And NATO, the NATO countries are like, we agreed to help defensively.

00:23:51.260 If you get attacked by another country, you didn't. 0.95

00:23:55.060 We don't want part of this quagmire.

00:23:57.060 We're out.

00:23:57.900 And Trump's trying to guilt them into it.

00:23:59.580 And it's not working.

00:24:00.860 And then he says, you know, he's picking on random adversaries or random, random allies

00:24:05.100 of ours being like, how about you?

00:24:06.160 You owe us.

00:24:07.060 You owe us.

00:24:07.760 You owe us.

00:24:08.560 You can see him.

00:24:09.260 He's getting frustrated.

00:24:10.240 But this is not something you can just double and triple and quadruple down on and have the problem get better.

00:24:16.900 Because Trump, as his frustration grows and he tries to guilt our allies into helping us, and they're not, seems to be saying, all right, fine, we'll do it, you effers.

00:24:26.260 And he's sending 5,000 to 7,000 troops are already there, Jesse.

00:24:30.280 It's 5,000 to 7,000 who arrived today.

00:24:33.840 And now the Wall Street Journal reporting last night that we've he's considering sending more than more than a minimum of 10,000 more.

00:24:44.380 So now we're talking about 17,000 American ground troops minimum that we may have over there.

00:24:52.060 And let me give you another statistic from the polling.

00:24:54.700 Reuters did a poll eight days ago.

00:24:56.560 You know what percentage of the American people support a, quote, major ground invasion?

00:25:00.880 By any standard, five to 17,000 American troops is a major ground invasion.

00:25:06.400 Seven, 7% of Americans would support a major ground invasion.

00:25:12.300 We cannot send five to 17,000 troops into Iran and ever win a Republican election again

00:25:20.420 for the next 10 to 20 years.

00:25:23.120 He cannot do that.

00:25:25.400 Everything he built, the entire coalition we were all part of will be ruined.

00:25:30.880 Well, I mean, you laid it out. Let's just put it in very simple terms, Megan. The American right, Donald Trump, the Trump administration, they have to decide whether this war in Iran is worth the communists conquering every single branch of government again in the United States of America, because that is the stakes of the game.

00:25:51.540 I think it would be worthy to remember what it was like four years under Joe Biden, 20 million foreign barbarians brought in. 1.00

00:26:00.620 They created an app on your phone so foreigners can invade the United States of America. 1.00

00:26:04.840 The White House lit up in rainbow colors, on and on and on. 0.97

00:26:08.180 Down the list we go, federal government packed full of transsexuals, all the nightmare that was there. 1.00

00:26:14.800 We have to decide. 0.97

00:26:16.280 Look, poll numbers don't lie.

00:26:17.860 We are going to have to decide whether the war in Iran is worth that again, because that very likely is the stakes of the game.

00:26:25.620 I will, again, remind everybody that presidencies are won with coalitions, not with the hardcores.

00:26:31.500 As much as we hardcore Trump voters, I'm a three-time Trump voter myself, as much as we love to believe that we are everything, Trump has 94% approval with the MAGA.

00:26:41.180 That's always the case.

00:26:42.300 Donald Trump could go out and kick a puppy in Central Park, and he would still have 94% approval with MAGA.

00:26:47.860 That is always the case.

00:26:49.280 He is not the president because of me.

00:26:51.640 He is president because he very smartly brought in guys like RFK Jr., who doesn't even align

00:26:56.960 with him on things.

00:26:57.720 My wife is not a hardcore political person, certainly not a hardcore Donald Trump person.

00:27:02.260 She is a hardcore health freak with the things and the foods and the health and all that. 1.00

00:27:06.160 The second Donald Trump brought in RFK Jr., my wife was ready to strap on a MAGA hat. 1.00

00:27:11.660 That's called building a coalition.

00:27:13.020 Why did Donald Trump go on these podcasts like Rogan and Theo Vaughn and all these other young men podcasts?

00:27:20.400 Why? Because nonpolitical young men do listen to those podcasts in droves.

00:27:25.680 Trump is a great interviewer. He sits down. He's real. He talks about his family.

00:27:29.440 He cracks a couple of funny jokes. Young men who are not hardcore MAGA voters came out in droves for Donald Trump.

00:27:36.480 That's called adding to a coalition.

00:27:38.780 That's how you win the popular vote, certainly as a Republican in the United States of America

00:27:43.740 these days.

00:27:45.060 And those people, every single poll shows are leaving us and they're leaving us because

00:27:50.400 they are unhappy with the United States economy and they do not feel like Donald Trump is

00:27:55.120 focused enough domestically.

00:27:57.040 People can get as mad at me as they want about that. 0.99

00:28:00.000 You can take your offense and wipe your rear end with it. 0.99

00:28:02.380 I don't care. 0.99

00:28:03.460 I'm giving you a dose of reality.

00:28:05.140 We have to wake up and smell the roses. People cannot find a job. Their son, their daughter just graduated college. They moved in back home. Manufacturing has not come back. Prices have not come down. Not that I'm blaming all this on Donald Trump, by the way. But when these are the conditions in the United States of America, you cannot be you cannot be seen to be focusing everywhere else.

00:28:25.760 If the neighbor's yard has weeds all through it, I may care a lot if things are fine in my house.

00:28:31.540 But if my air conditioner just went on the fritz, I have a leak in the ceiling.

00:28:34.920 My fence fell down from a storm last night. 0.97

00:28:37.080 I don't give a crap about how many weeds the neighbor has. 0.96

00:28:40.260 I got my own problems. 0.93

00:28:42.060 The degree to which any society cares about foreign lands is directly correlated to how happy they are at home.

00:28:50.260 When Americans are happy at home and satisfied at home, they are fine with some level of foreign 1.00

00:28:55.760 adventuring. When they are buried in credit card debt, working the second shift, can't make ends

00:29:01.260 meet. They don't want to hear about Iran, the mullah, nuclear weapons, Israel, Ukraine, Russia,

00:29:06.720 even Venezuela. They don't care about anything. They want a job, period. 0.51

00:29:12.440 Yeah, it's so true. I want to correct something I said earlier. MAGA is not 30 percent of the

00:29:17.540 country. MAGA is MAGA. The Republicans are 30 percent of the electorate Republicans and MAGA is

00:29:23.940 half of that. So you've got 15 percent of the country who are MAGA, who are completely in

00:29:30.380 Donald Trump's corner. It's like 92 percent favor the war in Iran because Donald Trump told them to.

00:29:35.160 That's great. That's great for Donald Trump. He can make himself feel terrific knowing that MAGA

00:29:38.900 is still with him. But that's that's that does not win you an election. And he is losing support

00:29:44.060 amongst the wider Republican base by the second.

00:29:47.660 As you point out, these numbers,

00:29:48.960 the approval numbers on the war don't tend to go up.

00:29:51.520 And there's not gonna be some big moment

00:29:53.160 like at the end of World War II

00:29:54.360 where the Japanese surrendered

00:29:55.960 and we had some moment where the troops came home

00:30:00.080 and the girls kissed them in the middle of Times Square.

00:30:02.240 That's not how this one's gonna go.

00:30:04.420 The Iranians do have a meaningful hand to play 1.00

00:30:07.440 and they're playing it.

00:30:08.580 They have their own demands that they want now,

00:30:10.480 including reparations.

00:30:11.500 Of course, they want us out of their country.

00:30:14.060 They may give us some things on like not enriching uranium.

00:30:17.200 They were reportedly already going to give those to us when we bombed them.

00:30:22.680 You know, the Middle East observers of the negotiations that Kushner and Witkoff were

00:30:27.340 doing with the Iranian emissaries said that we were actually making progress, that the

00:30:31.360 Iranians were giving and taking in the way that a negotiation goes when we dropped our 0.97

00:30:36.000 bombs on them.

00:30:37.200 And so now we found some somebody eighth in line to power who says, OK, we'll still have

00:30:42.560 that discussion, but we're pissed now and we're not going to give you everything. So we're not

00:30:46.540 in a better position. We're not in a better position than we were. And now we have 13 U.S.

00:30:50.840 service personnel dead and we're going to have more. If we send five to 17,000 ground troops

00:30:58.860 into Iran this weekend, in the coming weeks, we are going to have more dead service personnel.

00:31:05.540 And for what? For what? That does not make those numbers go up. People do not like to see it. They

00:31:12.000 don't like to see it even when we've been attacked, like post 9-11, but they'll stomach it when we've

00:31:16.800 been attacked. But we haven't been attacked and they know that. And I'm sorry, like it's not just

00:31:22.760 Ben Shapiro's fault, but I am going to show you something that Ben Shapiro is out there saying

00:31:26.560 because it's insane. The way he's talking about our troops, and he's not the only one, Mark Levin

00:31:35.300 too, he talks about like the gas prices, like so what? Fucking you're going to have to pay another 0.99

00:31:39.880 50 cents a gallon. By the way, it's more than that. It's already up a dollar a gallon in order 1.00

00:31:44.480 to stop from Iran from getting a nuclear weapon. You do it. Oh, easy for you to say. You're a 0.97

00:31:49.440 multimillionaire. And by the way, no one believes that we were about to get bombed by a nuke by

00:31:53.580 Iran. But here's Ben Shapiro talking about our troops. You you served. You understand the

00:31:59.680 sacrifice that our troops make and the risk they take when they sign up. I would submit to the

00:32:03.940 jury. It is not to die in a war for Israel. But here's Ben Shapiro talking about it.

00:32:09.080 And also, Americans are not dumb.

00:32:11.520 We don't believe that if you're involved in military activity, you're not going to lose

00:32:14.680 anybody.

00:32:15.600 Because again, if necessary military activity can only be pursued at zero cost, there's

00:32:20.900 no use in having a military.

00:32:22.980 Literally, the point of a military is to do hard and dangerous things.

00:32:25.860 That's why our military members are heroes.

00:32:28.360 During Vietnam, the Viet Cong counted on the idea that Americans would get tired, that 0.95

00:32:32.400 Americans would get bored.

00:32:34.140 And after a while, they were right.

00:32:35.960 Americans did get tired.

00:32:37.060 After a while, they were right.

00:32:38.080 Americans did want out, we should know that there were 50,000 American dead by that point.

00:32:43.880 In Iraq and Afghanistan, too, reality is that there is no way to extricate ourselves from this

00:32:50.100 situation right now. There is no way to extricate ourselves from this situation by simply running

00:32:54.400 away. That does not leave Iran in control of the Strait of Hormuz, which means 100 to $150 barrels

00:33:00.960 of oil from here to forever. And here's the thing. Once we get to the end of this, if the Iranian 1.00

00:33:06.780 regime falls, energy will become cheap again because the Strait of Hormuz will be free again.

00:33:12.120 I'm sorry, but that's disdainful.

00:33:15.240 Megan, people always point out Vietnam and the Viet Cong and things like that,

00:33:20.760 and Americans got tired. But here's the reality of it. And I've read this in a million books.

00:33:28.320 I've been told this personally by veterans. It is a fact, and it is a fact that nobody likes.

00:33:32.760 certainly dudes don't like this. There is a political aspect to every war, not just a

00:33:38.180 military aspect. I'll give you a little example. Rhodesia was once this heavenly country in the

00:33:44.500 middle of Africa, most prosperous country in Africa, really settled by England and run by

00:33:49.460 these well-to-do great families. This is paradise right in the middle of Africa. And they eventually 1.00

00:33:54.480 got assaulted by communist savages on all sides, of course, backed by Jimmy Carter and other 1.00

00:33:59.020 scumbags. We won't go into the whole details of it. But the Rhodesians were excellent fighters, 0.99

00:34:03.100 incredible fighters. And they pulled off this amazing mission where they went undercover

00:34:06.520 across the border into an enemy base. They drove basically enemy trucks into the enemy base,

00:34:12.560 drove up, all the enemy soldiers surrounded them on the parade ground. And then they opened up with

00:34:17.980 heavy machine guns and just butchered all of them, turned around and took off and didn't lose a man.

00:34:22.540 It's one of the most amazing, daring, brilliant military actions I have ever heard of or read

00:34:28.340 about in my entire life. And to this day, you can talk to men who fought in the Rhodesian War who

00:34:33.180 will tell you that helped them lose the entire war because the images of dead enemy soldiers

00:34:38.760 slaughtered on the parade ground caused such an international incident that Rhodesia's last ally

00:34:44.560 in that war, the last ally they had left, that was South Africa, decided to cut ties with Rhodesia,

00:34:49.800 which cut the country off completely, which ended up having it fall to the communists. And now it's

00:34:54.540 Zimbabwe, one of the poorest, biggest dumps on the face of the planet. There is a political

00:34:59.160 and a military aspect to every single war. In Iwo Jima, like I mentioned, we talk about Vietnam,

00:35:07.640 FDR. These people, the presidential administration at the time were mortified

00:35:12.760 that we had over 6,000 Marines die. This is at a time when Americans were uniquely invested in this

00:35:18.260 war because Americans were tired of it. This isn't an American thing. This is every country ever

00:35:24.240 has a limited amount, a very finite amount of caring for any war, and then they want it to

00:35:31.600 stop. The truth is, Americans, as you pointed out, do not feel emotionally invested in this.

00:35:37.840 They simply do not. I know the Trump administration tried. I know many different people are trying,

00:35:42.140 but nukes. Okay, that may be true. I have no reason to call Donald Trump or Rubio or anyone

00:35:46.260 else a liar. They may have been 15 minutes away from a nuke that did not sell with the American

00:35:52.140 people. The poll numbers bear that out. Politically, this is absolute suicide. So again, we can argue

00:35:59.300 all day long. The choice is very, very simple. Is the Iran war worth handing the United States

00:36:04.820 of America's government back over to the gay race communists? Because that is the choice we are 1.00

00:36:08.980 currently making. And it's it's happening. I mean, there have been, I think, 15 special elections for

00:36:16.500 these state house races that have been happening over the past year. And the Republicans have not

00:36:24.440 won any of them. They've all gone blue in jurisdictions that were heavily red, that had

00:36:31.120 gone for Donald Trump by some, what, 19 points in the latest one down in Florida or between 11 and

00:36:36.380 19. I can't remember the specific number in Florida, but I saw the list and there were many

00:36:40.340 that had gone 19 Republican that have now swung blue. This is a terrible harbinger for things to

00:36:45.900 come in these midterms. There are serious political pundits now predicting the Republicans

00:36:51.360 genuinely may lose the Senate in addition to the House. Yeah. And now and what does that do

00:36:57.480 in terms of the Republican positioning on the Senate in 28 when they they have more seats that

00:37:03.680 we weren't supposed to lose the Senate Republicans in this midterm election? That was not supposed

00:37:09.180 to happen at all. But now they're seriously talking about it like it might. And but then

00:37:13.720 the next election in 28, where there's a presidential race on the line as well,

00:37:17.840 the Republicans are more exposed. So, I mean, now you're, now we're on route to a, what, a 60,

00:37:24.220 a 60 seat Democrat majority. Do you know what that is? That's a fucking nightmare because the 0.96

00:37:29.800 Democrats could actually win the White House too with these approval numbers. President Trump's 1.00

00:37:33.380 approval numbers are in the basement. They're the lowest that they have been. And it's, it is the

00:37:40.240 economy, first and foremost, that's dragging him down. And now the Iran war. And by the way,

00:37:44.960 he's lost Hispanics too. He's the entire coalition that put him over the top is falling apart. As

00:37:52.900 as you point out that Joe Rogan's come out against the war, Dave Smith is hardcore against Trump

00:37:58.640 right now and has been for a while, a comic who's brilliant. Theo Vaughn came out against it. He

00:38:05.560 He lost comedian Andrew Schultz on whose podcast he made a lot of friends a while ago.

00:38:11.100 Sean Ryan has same against it now very strongly.

00:38:14.180 This is a coalition that the young men of America very much listen to.

00:38:19.040 And young people are completely against this war.

00:38:22.520 Even in the Republican Party, the latest poll that just came out from Pew showed the net approval among Republicans.

00:38:28.600 18 to 29 year old Republicans are against the war by a margin of minus two.

00:38:34.020 So net net they're against. It's not by a huge margin, but they are against as young Republicans. The next set up 30 to 49 year olds, they're there for it, but only by 20 point margin. And then when you get to the older people, 50 and up, it goes up. So it's older Republicans who support this war. And it's only older Republicans who support the war only that the independents are overwhelmingly against it. As you heard Harry Enten talk about Democrats are united against it because for their own reasons. And look at the numbers for Hispanics. 0.56

00:39:02.900 Let me just show you, because that's another part of the Trump coalition, right?

00:39:05.200 You had the young people, you had a greater number of black voters, you had men.

00:39:10.300 Harry Anton did a thing the other day showing men are against this, young men in particular, completely against this war.

00:39:15.160 And look at Hispanics. 1.00

00:39:16.900 Fox News just did a poll.

00:39:19.420 The Trump net approval rating dropped 40 points among Hispanics in the new Fox poll in just December.

00:39:28.460 In just December, the Hispanic approval of Trump was, it was 48% approved, 52% disapprove.

00:39:36.120 All right, so he was four points underwater.

00:39:38.380 Now, March 20th to 23rd, approval has gone from 48% to 28%.

00:39:45.700 Disapproval, 72%.

00:39:49.020 Instead of a net negative of four, he's now at a net negative of 44 with Hispanics. 0.54

00:39:57.200 This is a Fox News poll broadening out to overall, not just Hispanics, the entire electorate.

00:40:03.440 Do you approve or disapprove of the way Donald Trump's handling Iran?

00:40:06.380 Approve 36 percent. Disapprove 64 percent.

00:40:10.760 How concerned are you about gas prices? Not concerned 20. Concerned 80 percent.

00:40:17.880 And then there's Mark Levin. Here's a poll question no media outlet asks.

00:40:21.380 Would you prefer that the Iranian regime launches nuclear missiles at our country or paying 50 cents more a gallon for gasoline? 0.82

00:40:29.840 Jesse, if they go with that Mark Levin approach between now and November and thereafter, then they deserve the giant effing they're going to get.

00:40:39.380 You know, Megan, I go back and forth on this because you laid out all the numbers and the numbers, they are what they are.

00:40:46.760 I have these moments where I say to myself, you know what?

00:40:50.360 If we get wiped out in November because of this, we've freaking earned it.

00:40:54.080 You know, when Donald Trump gets impeached every other week, he signed up for it.

00:40:59.180 But then I remember that there's a lot more at stake than me and my anger and petty grievances and things like that.

00:41:06.020 My children, I have two teenage boys.

00:41:08.300 I don't want them to live in a communist one country.

00:41:11.240 Lord willing, they will get married one day and have children.

00:41:13.580 We have huge things at stake here at home, and fighting our domestic enemy has to be everything.

00:41:20.940 And we need to continue to stress that it's not just the economy, it's not just Iran.

00:41:25.300 These issues are linked for people.

00:41:27.220 They are linked for people.

00:41:29.040 Part of the reason people are so unhappy economically, just so everyone completely understands this, is pre-COVID, people were richer, that we hadn't had this rampant inflation.

00:41:39.940 Pre-COVID, people remembered what it was like.

00:41:42.520 people remember today what it was like to be able to afford to take your family out to applebee's on

00:41:47.900 a friday night they remembered what it was like to be able to go to the beach once a year on

00:41:51.720 vacation fancy or not they remembered what it was like when life was better because it was so recent

00:41:58.320 americans are poorer and they remember when they were richer and when you were richer five years 1.00

00:42:05.180 ago before we shut down an economy for a bad chest cold and printed seven trillion dollars

00:42:10.840 when you remember what it was like to be richer and now you're poorer, you don't want to hear

00:42:17.740 about Iran and nuclear weapons. You don't give a crap. You don't care about Russia and Ukraine. 0.99

00:42:22.980 This is why it fell so flat when Joe Biden tried to sell it all the time with his buddy Mitch

00:42:27.500 McConnell. The most important thing in the world is Ukraine right now. You know why that never 1.00

00:42:31.940 landed? They kept selling it. Every single press conference and leading up to the election of

00:42:36.500 Kamala Harris versus Donald Trump, Ukraine was somewhere below genital warts on the popularity 1.00

00:42:42.000 of things. Why was that the case? Why was it the case? Because you don't care about anything. It's

00:42:47.660 not the righteousness of the cause. It's not that it's good or bad. When things are bad at home and

00:42:53.000 you remember Applebee's and you haven't been there in three months because you're on your second

00:42:57.280 shift and your wife had to go back to work, you don't want to hear about foreign affairs. And I'll 0.99

00:43:02.340 tell you what, if the GOP plan is to run ads in the midterms telling people, well, two weeks away

00:43:07.960 from a nuclear weapon, oh my gosh, we are going to be annihilated. But you know what will be

00:43:12.380 comforting? After we lose 60 seats in the House of Representatives, the next morning we can all

00:43:17.040 wake up and say, but 94% of Malcolm was with us. That'll take us far. Yeah. And also, you know,

00:43:23.020 50% more in gas. I mean, really, who am I to complain? I sacrificed for my country. Honestly,

00:43:30.200 like the nerve of this guy. Mark Levin has been making millions of dollars off of his radio show

00:43:33.960 and his Fox News gig for years now. This is a true let them eat cake type moment. By the way,

00:43:38.980 it's not 50 cents. It's not. It's a dollar more per gas. And it's more than that for diesel.

00:43:44.700 And it's only going in one direction. You know, we reported this morning on our morning update show

00:43:49.520 that the Trump administration is reportedly game planning what happens in the U.S. economy if

00:43:55.420 the price per barrel of oil goes above $200, 200. The administration denies that, okay, but

00:44:04.300 it's a reliable report. $200, like if it goes, and you're already having very smart oil and gas

00:44:11.280 analysts say, there's only one direction that this is going. And it's, we haven't felt the

00:44:16.680 full effect of what's happening in the oil market and the energy market yet. We're only feeling the

00:44:22.320 initial tremors that the full pain will come just in time for summer vacations and the trip you

00:44:29.040 were going to take with your family cross country in the station wagon to the Grand Canyon. Gas

00:44:35.340 prices, trust me, as a newswoman, every year I've been doing this 24 years now, gas prices in the

00:44:41.440 summer are always, always a news item. They always seem to go up. People always feel the pain then

00:44:46.980 they start looking at the gas prices more than ever. They're driving more than ever. And if this

00:44:50.800 thing is actually going to hit most over the course of the summer, this energy crisis that

00:44:54.940 we've created two months before they actually vote for the midterms. Jesse, I don't know where

00:45:00.120 this could go. So Trump, he is brilliant. Trump is a political genius. That's that hasn't changed.

00:45:08.060 He's been dazzled, I think, by some smooth talkers into believing this thing could have been quick

00:45:13.260 and just like Venezuela. And he could sort of feel like Captain America. And that's not what's

00:45:18.120 happening. So now he's offloading the get us out of this thing to J.D. Vance. That's yay. That's

00:45:23.440 good. Thumbs up on that. And I think what what needs to happen right now while J.D. does his

00:45:29.920 job is no one should be able to talk Trump into fucking 17000 ground troops like that can't have 0.96

00:45:37.920 5000 can't happen. We should not shed another drop of American blood on the oil fields of Iran 0.97

00:45:45.600 because all these numbers get worse as soon as we do.

00:45:49.480 And by the way, he's already, you know, as we point out, he's losing men.

00:45:54.360 He already lost women.

00:45:55.880 He has very few women who are voting for him.

00:45:58.280 But I guarantee you, as more American men and women die over there in Iran,

00:46:03.960 the few women he has are going to start to dwindle too 1.00

00:46:06.120 because women do not like American casualties at all. 1.00

00:46:09.960 I mean, that's another thing I know from my 20 years at Fox. 1.00

00:46:12.100 In any event, it's such a shit show. 1.00

00:46:14.340 and here's part of the problem is the media, right? Because if you are a Republican who still 1.00

00:46:20.320 watches television news, all you watch is Fox, Jesse. That's all you watch. And you will not

00:46:26.100 find a dissenting voice on Fox news. Can we get the Will Cain side over here? I love Will Cain.

00:46:31.360 You know, the one we never ran with General Keene. I love Will Cain and he's an honest broker,

00:46:36.180 but he's the only one who's like, tried to like ask a couple of skeptical questions. Like,

00:46:42.900 this isn't great. Everybody else is cheerleading the war. So Republican voters who are older

00:46:50.100 voters, but they are the ones who actually go to the polls, all think it's going swimmingly.

00:46:55.100 That's what they believe, because that's what they're being told every night by Sean Hannity.

00:46:59.140 I mean, his show is full propaganda with Lindsey Graham every night, Tom Cotton,

00:47:03.720 you know, all these big cheerleaders for the war. And then you've got like, let me know when we have

00:47:09.040 Like the one time one guy tried to ask a dissenting question, he got his hand slapped by General Jack Keene, who I also really I love General Keene, but he's, you know, show the hammer, the nail.

00:47:22.200 What is it? To a hammer, everything's a nail. Of course, he's in favor of this action.

00:47:27.140 And to me, it's just evidence of the media problem we're having.

00:47:31.000 When you look at the Republican numbers, we have the side. Here it is. Watch what happened.

00:47:34.100 You know, I think the objectives are pretty clear.

00:47:37.100 Hanksworth, just secretary, just laid it out. The president has laid it out and the secretary of

00:47:42.140 state has laid it out. The objective is to prevent this regime from having the capability to continue

00:47:48.420 to attack us. And we don't retaliate. This president is not going to let this happen again.

00:47:55.680 So that is the mission here. It's pretty clear. Well, it's not 100 percent clear to me, General.

00:48:01.560 And that's not to suggest that I don't support 100% what is happening, nor that I 100% offer my support.

00:48:08.500 I just think I want to ask a couple of critical questions.

00:48:10.500 And I hope you know how much respect I have for your service.

00:48:12.880 And I think it goes without saying to anybody watching how much respect I have for the men making this decision.

00:48:17.160 You don't have to patronize me.

00:48:18.480 Just ask the question.

00:48:20.040 Go ahead.

00:48:20.620 Come on.

00:48:20.960 Ask it.

00:48:22.120 To be clear, General, I'm not patronizing you.

00:48:25.460 I'm trying to have a very serious conversation in front of the American people.

00:48:28.900 The men making these decisions have my utmost respect.

00:48:31.300 This is less about you than everybody making these decisions.

00:48:33.980 And this is about the American people understanding the investment that lies before them.

00:48:38.680 I just want to say two things.

00:48:40.180 I like both of those guys a lot. 0.99

00:48:41.900 General Jack Keene is a fucking badass. 0.97

00:48:43.980 He's like, he's, he is a grizzled, you know, general, like he's, I love him. 0.99

00:48:48.900 I've talked to him 10,000 times on my shows on Fox and I respect him.

00:48:53.380 And I love Will Kane.

00:48:54.360 I think he's actually one of the greatest things Fox has right now.

00:48:56.920 But the fact that he felt so uncomfortable challenging General Keene on that question tells you everything you need to know about the dynamic inside Fox.

00:49:08.760 Because Will is not a coward.

00:49:10.500 Will is actually quite strong, but he knew he was on thin ice going there because the bosses would not like this.

00:49:16.420 And by the way, my information is that they didn't.

00:49:19.960 They didn't like it.

00:49:22.120 And Jack Keene, it was kind of fun because he's like, spit it out, son.

00:49:26.100 You know, this grizzled general doesn't like something. Right. I appreciate the dynamic there. But to me, this is all hashtag part of the problem for that record. This happened the first day of the war that Monday after the bombing. Your thoughts.

00:49:37.400 my thoughts are that it's a little bit concerning that the american people have such a difficult

00:49:43.480 time now finding just actual news sources that can deliver them all sides of everything because

00:49:51.720 you're 100 right about how the coverage has been if it's if all that person is hearing every single

00:49:57.260 show every single day all day long about how everything's perfect everything's perfect everything's

00:50:01.900 perfect. Well, okay. What happens if April 6th comes and God forbid, I'm going to bank on Trump's

00:50:08.800 deal-making ability. What happens if April 6th comes and Iran doesn't make a deal? Because let's 0.60

00:50:15.040 talk about something, Megan, something we touched on a little earlier, but there's another part to

00:50:19.060 this. We talked about how two allies, or at least I did, I don't want to put words in your mouth,

00:50:23.160 two allies can share a common enemy, but not necessarily the same end goal. Okay, we got that.

00:50:27.800 Israel wants complete annihilation of Iran. Understandably, that's not good for us. We got 0.89

00:50:32.000 that. What if Iran doesn't want us to leave now either? They've already lost the Ayatollah. They've

00:50:36.680 already lost all their leadership. They're wounding deeply the man they had tried to kill,

00:50:41.140 by the way. They did try to assassinate Donald Trump. Now they're wounding him politically,

00:50:45.040 which they couldn't do physically. They've already lost the Ayatollah. What if Iran doesn't want to 0.94

00:50:50.120 make a deal? So now there's a United States, Israel, and Iran, and two-thirds of the coalition

00:50:54.760 doesn't want to make a deal? What are those people watching Fox every night hearing how great things

00:50:59.820 are going to go? What's going to happen if April 6th comes and we're stuck there? As I mentioned

00:51:05.300 earlier, off-ramps can be hard to find. All right, Jesse stays with us. We will be right back and

00:51:11.660 we've got plenty of other news to discuss, including the implosion of CBS News. That's next.

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00:52:22.000 jesse kelly's back with me go get his new book for free at jesse kelly.com all right jk um as

00:52:33.720 as much as we've seen inter you know podcast wars and wars on the right whatever the mainstream

00:52:40.000 media is really where the problems are i mean as usual um they are desperately trying to hold

00:52:47.460 on to their relevance and they're very, very dwindling audiences. And what they're doing

00:52:52.100 in order to do that is very amusing. And we need a little amusement. It's damn Friday.

00:52:58.980 We had a fiery first hour that was kind of depressing, but real. And we're having it 0.99

00:53:03.800 while there's still time to save the Republican Party. But we need some levity, which brings me

00:53:10.280 to CNN. Now, CNN's readings are in the toilet. I mean, truly, they're terrible. Their overall

00:53:16.000 numbers are like half a million. That's the overall, not the not the key demo, which is

00:53:20.120 going to be lower, but more relevant for advertising purposes. Their their key demo

00:53:23.340 numbers are like one hundred thousand. But the overall numbers are like in the four hundred

00:53:26.840 thousands. It's terrible. So they're they're doing a lot of desperate things. We reported earlier

00:53:34.060 this week that they tried to make Anderson Cooper look like Edward R. Murrow slash a podcaster

00:53:40.600 radio host by telling him to roll up his sleeves and to undo the top button, Jesse, to undo the

00:53:47.200 top button while still wearing the tie. It's a look. And to sit in front of like a big podcasting

00:53:53.420 or radio type microphone. Okay. Then they had Jake Tapper move his program to inside his office

00:54:00.740 where you of all people, I'd love to get your take on this, but he's peppered his walls with

00:54:06.200 only pictures of losers, losing candidates in political races. No winner makes the wall. That's

00:54:15.300 his inspo to surround himself with losers all day, every day. Okay. So far, I haven't seen any 0.99

00:54:24.960 ratings boost over at CNN. And now, so they're trying to go low tech. We showed the audience

00:54:31.320 earlier this week how on Anderson Cooper's show, they took a map of Iran. They just put it out

00:54:36.180 on his desk and then took an overhead shot of like the physical map, as opposed to using the

00:54:40.600 big giant CNN technology that they have for election night. They've got all sorts of LED

00:54:46.300 screens that they could. They didn't do that. They went low tech. We're low tech like the

00:54:49.720 podcasters now. We're authentic. We're scrappy. Now they're going high tech again by trying to

00:54:58.320 pipe in the voice of the guy directing the show, the tech director,

00:55:05.580 in telling the anchors and the hosts where to go for the next shot and what camera shots we're

00:55:11.140 going to be taking. Listen to the latest attempt. This happened on Aaron Burnett's show between the

00:55:17.080 A block to the B. All right, let's set for the B block. Guests are clear. Let's move the Colonel

00:55:23.880 and air into the magic wall. Breaks one and four. Stand by your break, Master, in three, two,

00:55:30.540 effect. Wear your break, please. All right. Let me tell you a couple. First of all,

00:55:36.460 they don't know who they are. They're having an identity crisis. We're low tech, we're high tech.

00:55:41.420 You know, we're CNN. We've got all these resources around the world. That's what they front when

00:55:46.900 they promote themselves, like the global anchors from every single country. Oh, no, we're just

00:55:52.220 like you, we roll up our sleeves and we undo our button because it's, it's uncomfortable if we

00:55:58.920 don't. And it reminded me, we did this during the Kamala Harris campaign of the infamous Sally

00:56:05.280 role, Sally, uh, Fields role of Sybil. This is who CNN really is. No, you keep them away from me.

00:56:13.200 i will i will i will do it i will do it he doesn't care he doesn't care

00:56:20.180 i just love you today bush let it back a hug around the neck

00:56:25.320 just tickle tickle tickle tickle tickle and tickle tickle tickle tickle tickle

00:56:30.020 paper is valuable paper is valuable yes it is yes it is it's valuable it's valuable

00:56:37.420 you can see now welcome to cnn they have no idea who they are or what they want to be jesse kelly

00:56:47.700 well they're they're having a crisis that many many different american companies have had to

00:56:53.360 go through and that many american companies companies throughout history have had to go

00:56:58.060 through this that for a time you basically have your customers held captive because you're one

00:57:05.000 of the only ones selling what the customer wants to consume. So for so many years, the mainstream

00:57:10.700 media outlets in this country, look, we don't even have to go to ancient history, 1990.

00:57:16.700 If I'm a regular Joe and I get home from work and I want to catch up on the news, I can read the

00:57:22.280 newspaper that they dropped off in my driveway. They used to do that. I know I'm aging myself

00:57:26.500 here. Or I can sit down and I have like four channels I can tune into and watch for 15 minutes

00:57:32.620 and that I will be given the news, given the news.

00:57:36.420 And so all these people, all these organizations,

00:57:38.580 they got so used to being able to simply talk down to people

00:57:42.280 because you didn't have anywhere else to go.

00:57:44.780 If you wanted to know what was going on in the world,

00:57:46.640 there was no, there's no smartphone, right?

00:57:48.440 There's no internet, there's no nothing.

00:57:50.220 There's no social media, there's no podcast world.

00:57:53.280 You have to sit and watch me.

00:57:54.740 And so years and years and years

00:57:56.840 of getting used to just talking down to people.

00:57:59.940 And now we are in the age where everybody,

00:58:02.340 has options. Everyone has options. I'm so grateful for everybody listening, watching the Megyn Kelly

00:58:06.980 show right now. Why? Because everybody, you can be listening to jazz music. You got eight million

00:58:10.940 options sitting here on your phone and you could be anywhere you want to be. You choose to be here

00:58:16.400 and it's all on demand now. So to make that adjustment from talking down to people instead

00:58:23.180 of actually talking to people like a normal human being, that is a very, very, very difficult thing.

00:58:29.600 It's difficult to go from being king to one of the countryside peasants.

00:58:34.640 And so you mentioned identity crisis. 0.98

00:58:36.460 I find it to be hilarious that Jay Tapper is now surrounded by losers. 0.99

00:58:40.000 He's been surrounded by losers. 0.99

00:58:41.300 He works at CNN. 1.00

00:58:42.500 That's his entire life has been surrounded by losers. 0.97

00:58:45.360 You have to be authentic now. 0.65

00:58:47.820 That is what people are trying to be king still, where there's three news outlets and

00:58:52.220 you're Walter Cronkart and 10 million Americans watch you.

00:58:54.800 But those days are gone.

00:58:56.000 There will never be another one because there are too many options.

00:58:58.300 The only thing you can do now is be you in whatever field you're in, CNN, this show, the podcast, it doesn't matter what it is.

00:59:07.180 You just have to be you, and the people who like that will listen and watch, and the ones who don't, they have too many options.

00:59:14.660 They're going to leave you.

00:59:15.900 If you're trying to be something you're not, Anderson Cooper with his unbuttoned shirt, if you're trying to be something you're not, that's going to lose you way more people than you would have gained otherwise.

00:59:26.320 Otherwise, authenticity is the only thing you have to sell now if you want to do what we do for a living.

00:59:31.780 And unfortunately for a lot of those characters over there, the authentic them is even worse than the fake them.

00:59:37.660 So it's actually not going to work for them.

00:59:39.940 But here's the funny thing to me.

00:59:41.960 So, yeah, they're having the identity crisis, the multiple personalities like Sybil.

00:59:45.500 But, I mean, I have a note for CNN.

00:59:47.400 I have some free, a pro tip, if you will.

00:59:49.800 The problem in getting ratings for you, CNN, is not that your technical director cannot be heard over the airwaves telling this guest to move in front of that screen during the A to B block.

01:00:03.900 The problem is not that the anchors are literally too buttoned up or broadcasting from the sets that you've built them instead of from their offices.

01:00:11.980 The problem is the content.

01:00:15.420 Clips like this one.

01:00:16.880 last week on this show a guest shocked the table by arguing in part that slavery in america can't

01:00:24.240 just be blamed on one race and that museums put too much focus on the role of white people

01:00:29.820 who participated in that terrible institution and now tonight that same argument is being pushed by

01:00:36.180 the president of the united states donald trump says that one of the reasons for his crackdown

01:00:41.260 on Smithsonian museums is, quote, everything discussed is how bad slavery was. It's important

01:00:47.420 to say objectively, slavery was indeed bad. It was evil. And it is impossible to understand

01:00:54.640 the true history. You get the gist. She keeps lecturing us in her little pantsuit. That's the 0.69

01:01:00.420 problem, Jesse. Well, you nailed it. It goes back to what I was just saying. They're used to you

01:01:05.940 having to sit there. Megan, you don't have anywhere else to go. You sit there and you let

01:01:10.340 me lecture you let me scold you about how bad your country sucks and you suck and no no you can't go 1.00

01:01:15.640 anywhere you don't have any options you sit there and take it and then they watch the ratings go 1.00

01:01:19.920 down because you don't have to sit there and take it anymore and this stuff is such a turnoff for so

01:01:24.480 many people they're tired of being scolded they're tired of being lectured told about how bad the

01:01:29.640 country sucks and so they're changing the channel but then these these organizations as you mentioned

01:01:35.040 their authentic selves are terrible what is that abby phillip i think her name is that's who she is 1.00

01:01:39.300 she's an awful human being. She's an America hating, awful human being. She believes that 1.00

01:01:44.140 the United States of America sucks, that white people suck, that all this is evil. And she 1.00

01:01:48.720 believes that she should be able to scold you without end about those things. And if you ask

01:01:55.620 her that, Hey, Abby, could you, could you tone that down a little bit? Abby, the numbers aren't

01:02:00.100 there. People were, people were changing the channel. Can you tone that down? Well, now she's

01:02:04.140 lying because that's who she actually is that's her being authentic authentically she's horrible

01:02:09.720 so you can't have that you can't have her lying because then people will sniff that out 1.00

01:02:13.940 so that's a disaster you're better off just being a jerk like i am 0.99

01:02:16.940 yes i i agree wholeheartedly enjoy endorse the jesse kelly approach to broadcasting 0.99

01:02:24.720 um it's not going any better over at cbs where oh my god we told the audience about this earlier

01:02:30.680 So they're under new ownership.

01:02:34.980 And the new ownership, I guess, thought that they were going to somehow magically save this sinking ship that is corporate media.

01:02:44.760 It's failing.

01:02:46.180 They brought in Barry Weiss.

01:02:48.260 This is nothing personal against Barry, but she never had any shot. 0.98

01:02:52.780 She not only could no one do it, but Barry really can't do it because she doesn't know shit about broadcast news. 0.92

01:02:59.140 she literally has never done it before. And I'm sure that the Ellisons thought, oh, well, 0.78

01:03:04.040 how complicated can it be? We'll figure it out. No, there actually is something to the broadcast

01:03:09.860 piece of broadcast journalism. And by the way, not for nothing, but it's what Roger Ailes understood

01:03:16.260 and no one else did, which is why Fox News became number one within a couple of years after

01:03:21.940 launching, because he understood it's a visual medium and how to make the screen dazzling and

01:03:26.960 how to make it so that people couldn't turn away and how to get in and up, up and down on a story

01:03:31.140 and use the television to communicate. And there are all sorts of nuances to it, which, you know,

01:03:36.100 if I had a longer time, I could watch the audience all through. But some of it you just experience

01:03:40.540 here on this program, because I understand how to make the screen relate to what the anchor saying

01:03:44.200 without even knowing that the host is doing it. It's just sort of, we call it like cool water.

01:03:49.440 You're just kind of enjoying the broadcast. You don't know why. And Barry Weiss doesn't know how

01:03:52.800 to do it. She doesn't know how to do it. She's never been in broadcasting before. It's not her

01:03:55.940 fault, but her bosses should have thought it through before putting this problem in her lap.

01:04:01.260 And here's what's happened. The CBS Evening News, which was job number one when the new

01:04:08.500 ownership took over and Barry was sent in, they overhauled it. They fired the two anchors who

01:04:15.320 were there, Maurice Dubois and the other guy, John Dickerson, because they were very terrified

01:04:21.720 that they were sometimes dipping below 4 million.

01:04:25.800 This is the flagship property of CBS News.

01:04:29.620 And they were like, you got to go.

01:04:31.320 Well, not only now is this Tony Dokopoul

01:04:33.500 regularly falling below 4 million,

01:04:36.160 but Oliver Darcy, he's a media reporter,

01:04:38.720 his Substack reports that CBS Evening News

01:04:43.660 with Tony Dokopoul is on track

01:04:47.700 for its lowest rated first quarter in the 21st century,

01:04:53.620 in the last century in total viewers

01:04:57.200 and the advertiser coveted 25 to 54 year old demographics.

01:05:02.420 So we're talking in 26 years,

01:05:05.080 this will be the worst first quarter

01:05:06.920 that show has ever seen.

01:05:09.080 Okay, how's the morning show doing?

01:05:11.440 Because you can still pay the bills

01:05:12.820 if that thing's a juggernaut. 0.91

01:05:14.540 CBS Mornings is pacing toward the lowest rated quarter on record, the lowest rated quarter ever in total audience and the key demo.

01:05:28.420 Both are on track for epically record bad quarters.

01:05:35.120 And on top of that, there is no faith.

01:05:38.720 He goes on to report in Barry Weiss.

01:05:41.240 She's fractured the trust amongst herself and the executive or the producing executives, the talent and so on.

01:05:47.520 And you tell me whether this is a ship that can or should be raised from the bottom of the ocean.

01:05:54.100 You know, Megan, I'm not changing the subject.

01:05:56.860 I swear I'm going somewhere with this.

01:05:58.500 But I actually had a conversation because we were just talking about CNN.

01:06:01.680 I had a conversation with a friend one time inside of CNN.

01:06:06.020 And he was talking about their identity crisis and similar to what we were just saying.

01:06:09.700 And I, of course, told him, well, you can't filter every show and everything through the lens of, you know, the communist propaganda and America sucks and things like that.

01:06:19.660 You you can't do that. You have to give some sort of an alternate perspective.

01:06:24.600 Otherwise, you're going to narrow yourself down to only so many people.

01:06:28.120 And he didn't argue with me. But what he said to me, Megan, was, yes, Jesse, I agree.

01:06:32.160 But any time we've attempted to do that, what happens is the second we stray an inch away from the communist revolution propaganda that we do all the time, then we lose the viewers we have.

01:06:46.140 Then you've lost the viewers you had because the audience has been baked in.

01:06:50.680 If you are a regular CNN viewer, you expect to see the communist revolution all day, every day.

01:06:57.280 and if there's ever any deviance from that, you will change the channel, you'll email in, you'll

01:07:02.040 complain, you'll go find a different communist revolution channel. Now you're watching it happen

01:07:06.720 at CBS, where the rumors were, I don't know, or that Barry, Barry, whatever her name is, that she 0.96

01:07:12.620 was trying to make it at least somewhat more middle of the road. Well, CBS had been spewing

01:07:18.560 commie propaganda for so long, they had tempered their audience down to being communist revolution

01:07:25.760 types and they don't want to see middle of the road they don't want to see any kind of an alternate

01:07:30.740 perspective if you're straying an inch from that the viewers you used to have they're going to

01:07:36.240 leave and they'll go find different commie propaganda it really look they made all these 0.98

01:07:40.960 channels made their own bed and i don't feel an ounce of sympathy for any of them screw them all

01:07:44.780 i ate them but they made the bed and now they're sleeping in it if your anchor of choice your news

01:07:51.400 of choice is scott pelly gail king uh margaret brennan and you know the cbs evening news whoever

01:08:00.420 was in there nora o'donnell etc you do not want fair and balanced news and by the way barry doesn't

01:08:06.340 like trump i mean she's not a trump supporter she's not a republican she's just not woke she's

01:08:11.580 not a woke person so she's trying i think on the order of the ellisons to be slightly more fair to

01:08:17.200 Trump, although it's not working. That's not working either. Trust me, I've seen enough on

01:08:21.540 CBS to know that that bias is not erasable. So their audience doesn't want that. None of those

01:08:29.660 people wants to watch more fair and balanced news. And if you are a Republican, as I started

01:08:34.220 this discussion with, you are not going to go watch CBS because here and there at the edges,

01:08:39.700 they've been marginally more fair to Republicans. You're just going to stay with Fox. If you're

01:08:45.040 like TV news. You're just going to stay with the one that actually understands you and doesn't hate

01:08:50.860 Trump, by the way. So which is Fox. So it's it's not going to work. It's it was doomed to fail

01:08:56.280 from the start. I had said when Barry took over that they were going to eat her alive from the

01:09:01.720 inside. And that's what's happening. She doesn't have the support of the troops inside. She's not

01:09:05.340 going to. This is not an experiment that's going to work out. Sorry, but that's just the way it is.

01:09:09.960 And that's not to say anything of Topra Dokopoul, who's still crying in the anchor chair every other

01:09:15.000 Jay trying to get get us to watch him because he's got a softer side. Unlike my friend, Jesse

01:09:19.900 Kelly. Did I ever ask you about the crying? Did you and I ever talk about that? No, no.

01:09:25.220 We I need to show you this clip. This is he tweeted this out. He tweeted this out, Jesse,

01:09:30.100 to try to show us who he is as he took over the CBS Evening News. Watch.

01:09:35.680 You said this is your favorite place in the world. Why? Why South Florida and Miami?

01:09:40.120 it makes me emotional

01:09:45.160 it's so funny

01:09:45.800 I didn't mean anything

01:09:46.940 you know

01:09:47.840 because you only have

01:09:54.560 one childhood right

01:09:55.460 so

01:09:55.740 let me get a second here

01:09:58.780 no you're okay

01:09:59.200 I can relate

01:10:00.280 this is home

01:10:00.880 people will

01:10:05.440 to help people understand

01:10:06.920 why I have such a reaction

01:10:07.900 Oh, my God.

01:10:14.420 Can't stop wiping his eyes.

01:10:15.640 Florida is where I grew up.

01:10:21.900 We didn't get a lot of sleep.

01:10:23.240 No, it's okay.

01:10:24.220 My grandmother is here.

01:10:25.720 My father, my mother, my aunts and uncles, cousins.

01:10:30.040 And it's where I would have spent all of my childhood, but we left because of my father.

01:10:36.500 he got in trouble with business it's like we laugh about it now but he was a drug dealer

01:10:40.660 but the reason it's so emotional for me is because i feel like i was robbed of the full

01:10:47.120 miami experience so when i come back i'm always like

01:10:52.800 jesty well first of all megan his father was a drug dealer i believe he said so i believe that

01:11:01.000 is in fact the full miami experience that is one two uh maybe i just had a different father

01:11:07.620 and it's not that men should never cry but it should be reserved for you know watching old

01:11:12.020 yeller and things like that the the fact that this has become currency with men that's a woman thing 1.00

01:11:18.480 that's what women do and that's fine i understand that but men are so anxious to become women now 0.95

01:11:24.280 in this country instead of just embracing being a freaking man that now they'll stand in front of 0.87

01:11:29.600 And I don't even know if those tears were real. 0.95

01:11:31.440 He didn't even look like he was crying.

01:11:32.960 I don't know what would be worse if those were real tears.

01:11:35.780 Or that if he thought that he had to fake tears in order to create some sort of emotional response to people.

01:11:42.100 Oh, I'm so sad.

01:11:43.240 I didn't have the pupusas that my grandma used to make.

01:11:46.100 And whatever he was whining about in that freaking video. 0.96

01:11:48.860 I find it to be incredibly embarrassing these men who try to be women in order to appeal to. 0.98

01:11:54.720 I mean, I don't know what they think that appeals to. 0.99

01:11:56.320 There's no woman worth a crap who finds that appealing. 1.00

01:11:59.340 Any man who's worth his salt finds that completely revolting. 0.97

01:12:02.820 I think my T-levels dropped about 300 points just watching that clip.

01:12:06.120 It's just the most disgusting thing I've ever seen in my life. 0.86

01:12:09.060 And this feminized male population in this country now absolutely floors me. 0.99

01:12:15.780 It's killing us. 0.99

01:12:16.900 It's guys like that that are killing us.

01:12:18.620 And there's no audience for it. 1.00

01:12:19.880 Speaking of no audience, like I said, the only people who want to see that crap are 1.00

01:12:24.240 mentally ill single women on Xanax. 0.99

01:12:27.240 Those are the only people in the United States of America who find that particular type of man appealing whatsoever. 0.60

01:12:33.020 I don't never understand it.

01:12:34.440 Yes, totally agree with you.

01:12:36.220 I feel like it's revolting as a woman. 1.00

01:12:39.300 And I feel like if I were a man, you could probably feel your balls shrinking as you watch that. 0.99

01:12:43.860 Like you say, like the testosterone is actually leaving your body. 0.97

01:12:48.020 And yet, like they tweeted it out.

01:12:50.320 CBS tweeted it out.

01:12:51.420 He clearly blessed it.

01:12:53.040 He wanted us to see it.

01:12:54.560 He he wanted us.

01:12:55.980 That's why I call him Topra.

01:12:57.240 instead of tony he's like let me show you my pain and i said to the audience when this first broke

01:13:02.100 i was like he's telling the story and he's like crying crying crying uncontrollably i'm like what

01:13:07.200 how is this story gonna end like what the hell happened to the family in miami like i thought

01:13:11.460 for sure it was gonna end in they all died in a house fire it was horrific but i learned to fight

01:13:16.880 again it was they moved they moved i would love to i miss my dad megan

01:13:27.140 I lost him about a year and a half ago, and he was one of these rough, tough construction guys, and I miss him to death.

01:13:32.920 And sometimes, I mean, I miss him for a variety of reasons, but sometimes whenever we would hang out and do something, I would take a video like that, and I'd say, hey, Dad, hey, Dad, I want you to look at this.

01:13:43.260 I should have filmed it.

01:13:44.440 I wish I had recorded it just to get his reaction on that kind of thing and the complete disgust and disdain.

01:13:50.720 like he didn't even understand it. And he didn't understand this world that we have now. And I'll

01:13:57.840 tell you what, I'm grateful for him. Yes, I know what you mean. Yeah, like he didn't even understand

01:14:02.420 it. Like what? Like Archie Bunker used to say, huh? I don't get it. Okay, maybe a 180 from Topra

01:14:12.920 Dokopol. And you're going to have to walk me through this guy, Dan Hurley, because I didn't

01:14:17.120 know him by name prior to today. He's apparently the UConn head basketball coach. But the reason

01:14:22.320 I'm teeing up sports for you, and you know, I don't really talk about sports unless I have to,

01:14:26.200 is he gave an interview. Apparently he's very known for being tough on his guys, like tough

01:14:33.280 love. He's not actually a jerk, but he's kind of a jerk, I guess, with them because that's what he 0.99

01:14:38.240 thinks works. And he's got a reputation along those lines. And he was explaining, okay, first, 0.99

01:14:46.760 Which is the first one we need to start with?

01:14:48.280 I'm trying to read here.

01:14:50.260 Okay.

01:14:50.940 Here, 17.

01:14:52.180 This is why, at first he sits down at a pregame press conference on Thursday and explains why he is the way he is with his guys.

01:14:59.760 What do you think it says about the culture that people see, you know, yelling or hard coaching and somehow think that's a problem?

01:15:05.400 Yeah, I just think that's, you know, society.

01:15:07.140 We've gotten soft in a lot of ways, I think, with, you know, we're trying to develop young people.

01:15:14.440 I think young people, the teachers and coaches that impact their lives the most are not the teachers and coaches that, like, gave them a grade they didn't deserve.

01:15:22.760 I mean, you remember the teachers and coaches that pushed you to your maximum, you know, that pushed you beyond your comfort level, that got the most out of you.

01:15:31.560 I feel like I got a responsibility.

01:15:33.320 You know, I coach 18-, 19-, 20-year-old men.

01:15:36.920 There's a lot that I got to instill in them.

01:15:38.920 There's a lot of discipline.

01:15:40.240 There's a lot of accountability.

01:15:42.100 There's a lot of commitment that I've got to instill in them to prepare them for the real world.

01:15:47.160 The real world is tough.

01:15:48.280 It's cruel.

01:15:50.120 You got to be you got to be equipped.

01:15:52.860 Isn't that amazing?

01:15:53.740 And if you don't have a guy like Dan Hurley, whether it's a father, a father figure or a coach in your child's life, you wind up Topra Dokopul putting up videos of yourself crying so that people will take you seriously as an authority figure in the CBS Evening News chair.

01:16:10.000 Yeah, that's how young men learn with pain and suffering. And people don't like to talk about that because it does make people uncomfortable. But that's how young men have always learned with pain and suffering. If you walk into Marine Corps boot camp, you will see a lot of pain and suffering. Pain and suffering is how young men grow up. It's how you learn from mistakes.

01:16:27.000 when I told my son, I think he was 15 years old, that it was cold out and he better go grab a

01:16:32.120 sweatshirt. And in his 15-year-old ways, he knew it all. And he said, no, dad, I'll be fine in my

01:16:37.040 t-shirt and shorts. And I sat there for two hours while we were outside as he shivered and his teeth

01:16:41.900 chattered and he was suffering. And I couldn't have given him my sweatshirt. I certainly could

01:16:45.380 have. And instead, the entire time I told him how warm I was, man, it's nice to be in this sweatshirt.

01:16:50.200 And you know what, Megan? Not one time since then has he forgotten to check the weather

01:16:54.440 and dress appropriately because pain and suffering are how young men learn. And that makes people

01:17:00.600 uncomfortable. Of course, I understand it makes people uncomfortable because you love them,

01:17:05.680 right? You don't want to see people hurt, but that's how young men have always and will always 0.97

01:17:11.120 learn. I cannot speak for young women. I'm not raising young women. I don't have a lot of

01:17:15.100 interaction with young women, but I know young men who I do know quite well learn through pain

01:17:20.820 and suffering and yelling and pushups and running stairs and being cold for a couple hours.

01:17:27.240 That's how you wake up. And that's how you grow up and turn into a man who doesn't try

01:17:32.040 on television because daddy was a drug dealer and moved you out of Miami.

01:17:36.280 Yeah. Young women would not leave the coat at home. That's pretty much a daughter. 1.00

01:17:41.780 She takes the coat. So like you have different problems with girls, but that's they're not in 0.99

01:17:46.340 that lane. I can totally relate to what you said. When we went to Scandinavia, I got raincoats for

01:17:53.140 all five of us. This is a couple of Junes ago because they say in one day in Sweden or Norway

01:17:59.720 or Denmark, that's where we went, just in one day, you'll experience all four seasons. You'll

01:18:05.340 freeze your ass off. You'll sweat. You'll be snowed on potentially. You'll be rained on. So 0.99

01:18:09.220 I'm like, okay, everybody needs a raincoat. And so I went and I got everybody a raincoat.

01:18:13.460 Um, now I put the raincoat in my young son's duffel bag that we were traveling with, who is

01:18:22.440 then 10, nine or 10, 10, I think. And the older two, I just gave it to them and they packed it up.

01:18:28.220 We get to Scandinavia, we got to Sweden. Sure enough, it's raining. It's pouring rain. I'm

01:18:32.600 like, we're ready. You know, I'm feeling proud of myself as a parent. I'm like, everybody's got

01:18:36.260 their raincoats. Let's go. And Thatcher, my youngest looks at me with like big eyes. Like,

01:18:41.440 I'm like, what do you mean? I know you have your raincoat. I bought it for you. I put it in your

01:18:45.440 duffel. He goes, I took it out. Why? Of course him packing, he has like four things. He had

01:18:54.140 plenty of room for it. Like, why would he remove something I put in there? And he's like, I didn't

01:18:58.760 think I'd need it. I'm like, what do you mean? You don't know anything about this, the weather

01:19:02.780 in Sweden. What do you, he's like, I'm fine. I don't need a raincoat. Sure enough. I look at him.

01:19:07.760 I was like, and now you will suffer.

01:19:10.380 He looks at me with, I use that word with the big silver dollar eyes, like, oh my gosh.

01:19:15.900 I'm like, let's go.

01:19:17.320 And sure enough, he got, he got a little wet that day.

01:19:19.760 But yes, to your point and to, and also to your point about just being the parent of

01:19:23.640 a boy, it was like, what?

01:19:26.480 They are, and it's always been this way.

01:19:30.540 You know, it's not just like, these are American boys.

01:19:32.920 It works the exact same way at any period of time, at any location on the planet.

01:19:38.640 Young men, as they develop, they have to go through it.

01:19:42.080 By the way, it doesn't have to be military, right?

01:19:43.860 It doesn't have to be a hard basketball coach or football coach.

01:19:46.800 There are many different ways to go through this.

01:19:49.440 But young men have to go through hard things in order to grow and develop into the kind

01:19:56.340 of men that can actually lead, lead their homes, lead a country, lead a company, lead

01:20:00.460 anything.

01:20:00.880 You must go through hard things.

01:20:02.780 I've had women multiple times, mothers, email my show and ask, hey, Jesse, your confidence level when it comes to really anything.

01:20:12.120 How do I give that to my son?

01:20:13.720 How do I give it to my son?

01:20:14.980 Especially yourself.

01:20:15.860 Yeah, exactly.

01:20:17.680 How do I give that to my son?

01:20:19.180 You know, and it's a genuine question.

01:20:20.600 I'm a mom.

01:20:21.900 I'm raising a boy.

01:20:22.820 How do I give him confidence?

01:20:24.320 And I've had to explain several times before.

01:20:26.900 Look, you can and should tell him a million times that you love him and that you're proud of him and that this and that.

01:20:31.460 but none of those things, none of those things can give a young man confidence. The only thing,

01:20:37.000 there is only one thing that gives a young man confidence, and that is going through hard things.

01:20:41.600 And the harder things you go through, the more confident you will be. You ever meet a Navy SEAL?

01:20:46.080 I know several Navy SEALs. They're the cockiest SOBs who walk the face of the planet. Why are 0.89

01:20:51.460 they so cocky? Because they've been through something more difficult than most other people

01:20:56.000 will ever go through. You want confidence? There is only one way to get it. You can't love your

01:21:01.600 way into it or tell them you're proud your way into it. You can't read your way into it. Suffering

01:21:06.260 of some kind in some way. And like I said, it doesn't just have to be physical. It could be

01:21:09.940 God knows what you go through educationally or whatnot. You must suffer and come out the other

01:21:14.940 end and then you will be confident. Yes, I love everything you just said. There was a great clip

01:21:20.940 circulating on X the other day of, um, uh, the British actor who is in Hannah and her sisters,

01:21:27.140 Michael Cain, Michael Cain. Yes. Uh, that's his name. Pretty sure. Uh, anyway, he was talking

01:21:35.560 about how when he was young, he was going onto the set. I think it was a Broadway play and he

01:21:42.300 was supposed to open the door, walk on stage and like confront this man and woman who were arguing

01:21:46.580 on set. And he opened the door at a rehearsal and walked in and they had, somebody had shoved a

01:21:51.700 table in front of the door. So the door opened into a table. And now it's like the table's

01:21:56.300 blocking his entrance. It all got screwed up and he was angry. And he was like, don't move the

01:22:00.320 table. And they, somebody else said to him, how, how can it be useful? How can you make it useful?

01:22:09.560 He's like, what do you mean? They're like, if, you know, improv, if it's a comedy,

01:22:14.300 bump into it, fall over the table and fall down

01:22:17.000 and give the audience that experience.

01:22:18.720 If it's a drama, get angry,

01:22:20.980 start screaming about the table that blocked your way.

01:22:24.040 But he said this became like his life motto

01:22:26.360 in raising his own kids

01:22:27.700 and thinking about the challenges that came his way.

01:22:29.840 How can it be useful?

01:22:31.580 How can I make this challenge,

01:22:33.300 which otherwise would make me go crying in my soup

01:22:36.420 and feeling sorry for myself,

01:22:38.480 into something that's useful

01:22:40.140 so I can get to the other side

01:22:42.220 where i have more confidence as you said where i believe in myself a little bit more where like

01:22:46.320 i know i can handle adversity yeah i love michael kane by the way and he's always been one of those

01:22:53.580 real type actors where so many of them seem fake but it's why i yeah as a parent i've tried to

01:23:00.980 figure out how do i give that to my sons while also protecting my sons right because it's a weird

01:23:06.420 it's a weird thing i i you know i don't want to go drop them off in the fifth ward that's the

01:23:10.540 gangbanger part of houston at midnight and say well good luck son you got to suffer a little to

01:23:15.180 grow up i don't want that right but that's why look i'm not i'm not here to teach people life

01:23:19.940 lessons or parent lessons i can only tell you what we have done that's why we're adamant about sports

01:23:24.140 and neither of my kids are incredible athletes nor do i care nor do i need them to be i'm not

01:23:29.400 living vicariously through them i don't need them to get a full ride or something like that although

01:23:33.320 that'd be cheaper but no go suffer you know my my youngest decided to do track this year he can't

01:23:39.820 run for crap he runs like I do I can't jump over a piece of paper I run a 40 a 40 yard dash in about

01:23:45.240 15 minutes and he's the exact same way but he's doing it just to do it just to suffer and he's 0.99

01:23:50.800 out there and he's sweating and he's in pain in his misery and it makes me so freaking proud to

01:23:55.300 watch it because he's better you can already see him he's standing up a little straighter because

01:23:59.500 he's out there he's in pain and he's suffering so there there are ways you can give that to your

01:24:04.420 kids we just have to avoid here in america we're so blessed that we can avoid a lot of pain you can

01:24:10.760 avoid a lot of things and that's good right you can avoid a lot of danger but you can get to the

01:24:15.000 point where you really can helicopter parent your kids and keep them in a bubble and then finally

01:24:19.900 you kick them out of the house at 18 and they're just soft and gooey and getting ready to get eaten

01:24:24.840 alive by what that coach said there was named dan hurley by a very cruel world that i mean when my

01:24:30.200 kids get a bad teacher who's mean to them and they'll come home and dad she gave me a detention 0.91

01:24:35.200 well you think you're never gonna have a bad boss think all the bosses are gonna be lovely you think 0.95

01:24:39.540 that they're all gonna treat you fairly no you're gonna have crappy bosses and it's gonna suck

01:24:43.500 consider this a great time to learn about it my uh oldest this summer he is he's got two jobs

01:24:49.520 lined up he has to go put in irrigation lines and he has to work at a local mexican fast food joint 0.61

01:24:55.100 And both those jobs are going to suck, Megan. 0.86

01:24:58.380 They're going to be brutally crappy jobs for crappy pay. 0.62

01:25:02.020 And it's going to be outstanding for him because one day he's going to have a job at 25, 26 that may not be ideal.

01:25:09.080 And you know what he's going to say?

01:25:10.520 Hey, it's better than taco time.

01:25:12.680 It's better than that job.

01:25:14.160 Now, wait, there is a twist to this story about this coach, Dan Hurley.

01:25:19.160 Speaking of tough love, he not only gives it.

01:25:21.720 he certainly seems to receive it from his wife. Look at this. We did a little deep dive into Dan

01:25:28.800 Hurley because we got interested in that clip. Here he sat down with Graham Bensinger in September

01:25:34.040 of 24 and described what his wife Andrea does when he loses games or starts to maybe get down

01:25:43.320 on himself. Listen here to SOT17. On the rare occasion you've lost, what will the wife yell

01:25:50.860 at you to get you out of bed i mean she has strange like motivational tactics you know 1.00

01:25:59.160 the game at creighton this year where you know we lose by a lot and i'm i'm fighting with fans

01:26:06.380 and going like crazy dan on the way out of the arena you would think that that next morning 0.94

01:26:12.320 she'd like tell me it's gonna be okay you know she's telling me you're a lousy coach and you 0.99

01:26:17.540 acted like a baby last night and you know why don't you take out the garbage because you're 0.98

01:26:22.220 no good at coaching you're a glorified gym teacher you go in you coach games you don't perform 0.94

01:26:29.660 surgery you don't save lives i mean part of me is like really pissed off you don't know you know

01:26:35.580 what you're looking at and i'm just like okay well i'm just telling you get back on your horse it's 1.00

01:26:40.260 not that big of a deal you know it's like it's a game stupid game 0.98

01:26:45.000 so is this what Aubrey says to you when you have a bad show like Jesse how does it work in the 0.98

01:26:54.620 Kelly household you know it's not that but I'll tell you when I have uh you know Megan I'm more

01:27:01.380 of an introverted type it's the reason you don't see me at all these conferences giving speeches

01:27:06.420 and things like that it's just not something I I enjoy doing I'm an introvert I I don't want to

01:27:11.480 hang around a bunch of people i don't want to give speeches i don't need applause i want to go home

01:27:15.540 and read a book and watch a documentary and hang out and be with my family when i'm not doing my

01:27:19.520 show but i also understand that occasionally traveling for work is beneficial but i'll always 0.91

01:27:25.000 say no until ob finds out about it and then she'll just climb in my butt about the entire thing and 1.00

01:27:31.300 tell me this is what you have to do you cannot come home and live in your cave at all times 0.95

01:27:36.720 you have to go out there and do things you don't like to do you can't only do what you want the

01:27:42.380 other kids that's exactly right you can't only do what you want to do for the rest of your life

01:27:46.740 you gotta get out there and do it you gotta do this you gotta you gotta write something i hate 0.58

01:27:51.340 writing i despise writing i don't mind talking of course but i hate writing you gotta go write

01:27:55.520 something write something down she does that same type of thing and it's i've needed her i'll tell

01:28:00.860 you that much i need that every now and then otherwise i'd never leave my house uh well i

01:28:06.080 I think their dynamic is very interesting in the Hurley family.

01:28:09.100 There was a follow-up soundbite by him being like, she's clueless.

01:28:12.520 She doesn't know anything about what I do.

01:28:14.380 It took a turn from like the kind of charming to like the, oh, well, I don't know how I feel.

01:28:20.060 But it's an interesting study of relationship and messaging.

01:28:23.920 Jesse, I love having you on.

01:28:25.500 Have a great weekend.

01:28:26.420 Love to Aub, and let's do it again soon. 0.94

01:28:28.400 Appreciate you, Megan.

01:28:29.880 Aw, what a great guy, right?

01:28:31.500 Okay, coming up, actually we're not going to do anything on Nancy Guthrie today.

01:28:35.520 And then, do you guys know, I've mentioned Nerdy Addict on this show, from whom we've

01:28:41.260 gotten a few good tips on this investigation, and Nerdy Addict just dropped a bit of a bombshell 1.00

01:28:47.200 in the Guthrie investigation.

01:28:49.060 We'll discuss it next.

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01:29:52.820 We showed you yesterday clips of Savannah Guthrie's first interview on NBC since her

01:29:57.600 mother, Nancy, went missing nearly two months ago now. I'm like, gosh, that's crazy. Today is

01:30:03.480 March 27th. Nancy was taken on January 31st. Well, overnight on the wee hours of February 1st. That

01:30:12.180 is so crazy. Unfortunately, we have more questions than answers two months later. Like, why didn't

01:30:19.200 the Guthrie family ever pay a ransom if they believed, as Savannah told us yesterday, that two

01:30:27.100 of those ransom notes they received were authentic? Why wouldn't they have paid the money?

01:30:34.020 And why did Savannah's military veteran brother immediately think that Nancy was kidnapped for

01:30:40.600 ransom? Immediately, that's where his mind went. Was there something in the second note,

01:30:46.040 this is another question, that made them believe it was fruitless to pay money to the kidnapper

01:30:53.080 because they made video statements after each of these notes. And that last question,

01:31:00.560 what was in the second note? And did it suggest something about Nancy that was dark and would

01:31:08.720 have suggested the ransom was fruitless? And that's the question taking new significance

01:31:14.080 this morning. Because one of the X counts that has followed this case the closest and that we

01:31:20.360 have been following and that has steered us right more than once in its commentary and leads on the

01:31:26.080 case is a user who goes by the name Nerdy Addict. And Nerdy, you may recall that because I've cited

01:31:33.720 Nerdy Addict in talking with you guys before. Nerdy Addict writes today, quote, I now have two

01:31:40.280 sources confirming that one of the letters sent to the media in the Nancy Guthrie case allegedly

01:31:46.660 states that the sender apologized, claiming that they did not realize how serious Nancy's heart

01:31:54.300 condition was and that she has, quote, gone to be with God. Right? So this is nerdy claiming that

01:32:00.960 nerdy's been told by two sources that the second ransom note, you know, this person was demanding

01:32:06.600 Bitcoin and wrote to Harvey plus two local stations, that the second note apologized saying

01:32:12.520 they didn't realize how serious Nancy's heart condition was and that she has, quote, gone to be

01:32:17.000 with God. Nerdy goes on to write, quote, according to these sources, investigators believe the message

01:32:22.760 came from the same individuals who previously demanded Bitcoin, though this latest letter

01:32:28.380 reportedly made no demands and was framed solely as an apology. While this has been validated to

01:32:36.620 nerdy by two independent sources. It has not been publicly released or confirmed by the media. So

01:32:43.080 nerdy is telling us, and we are telling you to take it with a grain of salt and put a big old

01:32:47.840 asterisk at the end of it. With all due respect to nerdy, we don't know nerdy's agenda. We don't

01:32:53.320 know nerdy's background. We don't know anything about nerdy other than the reporting that we've

01:32:57.940 taken from this account with citation so far in this case has all proven to be very sound.

01:33:04.240 So that's why we decided to bring it to you.

01:33:07.500 Here to analyze this is James Hamilton.

01:33:10.020 He's a former FBI supervisory special agent

01:33:12.560 who created the FBI's Close Protection School,

01:33:15.820 which is a specialized training program

01:33:17.240 designed for agents to protect high-level individuals.

01:33:20.160 And Maureen O'Connell, a 25-year veteran of the FBI

01:33:23.900 and co-host of the Best Case, Worst Case podcast.

01:33:28.680 Thank you guys so much for being back on.

01:33:30.460 I wanna say, I wanna go through a little bit

01:33:33.080 of the timeline here, just to refresh us all and the audience about that second ransom note,

01:33:41.440 right? Nancy was taken on that Sunday, February 1st in the wee hours. That whole week we had

01:33:46.080 ransom notes and we had family responses. And now it seems like ancient history because we're two

01:33:51.040 months in, but the ransom note, my team has done the timeline for me. Okay. The first we heard of

01:33:59.480 a ransom note was Tuesday, February 3rd. The first ransom note sent to TMZ and two local Tucson

01:34:05.640 stations at 1.12 p.m. The letter demanded $4 million in Bitcoin by Thursday, February 5th,

01:34:13.040 and then $6 million if the payment didn't come before Monday, February 9th. And then, you know,

01:34:20.780 what was in that note? Well, we don't know. All we know is that they made a demand for ransom

01:34:26.620 And they had revealed something about Nancy's clothing or something inside the house, allegedly about her watch and maybe a floodlight on the outside that convinced investigators that they should take this note seriously.

01:34:43.620 And the family certainly took it seriously because that was the note in response to which we first saw the family come out.

01:34:50.780 the three adult children holding hands, Savannah with the no makeup, very, very dark, 0.98

01:34:58.300 you know, talk to her and you'll see saying the things about Nancy, you should get to know her.

01:35:03.820 And in this day of video manipulation, we need to know that you do have her and, you know,

01:35:12.280 that she's alive. So that was after the first one. Then on Thursday, February 5th,

01:35:20.780 authorities confirm those two ransom deadlines.

01:35:27.800 And later that day, KOLD TV Tucson

01:35:31.060 received a second ransom letter.

01:35:32.720 At 5.30 p.m., they said there's no deadline in it.

01:35:36.440 The new note, quote,

01:35:37.220 contains something the senders seem to think

01:35:40.300 will prove to investigators

01:35:42.120 that they're the same people who sent the first note.

01:35:46.860 And then in response to that second note,

01:35:49.200 the family came out the following day on Saturday, February 7th. And they said, we received your

01:35:55.400 message. We understand. We beg you now to return our mother to us so that we can celebrate with

01:36:01.880 her. This is the only way we will have peace. This is very valuable to us and we will pay.

01:36:08.080 And many of us sat and said, that sounds like they believe Nancy's no longer alive.

01:36:12.960 Return our mother to us so we can celebrate with her, celebrate being possibly a term of art,

01:36:18.540 you know, a celebration of life. Well, they're looking for peace now, very valuable to us and

01:36:23.660 we will pay. And that would dovetail with nerdy's reporting that the second ransom note was more of

01:36:29.840 an apology, but they had Nancy's body and said, she's gone to be with God. This is all speculation,

01:36:39.300 but it could dovetail. And it also dovetails Maureen with the fact that the family didn't

01:36:45.420 actually pay. Like if that second note suggested Nancy was no longer with us, I don't know that

01:36:52.200 even Savannah Guthrie, who probably does have well over $6 million in the bank, would pay $6 1.00

01:36:57.700 million at that point in the investigation. But I don't know. I'm not sure what to make of this.

01:37:03.000 What do you make of it? Well, I think that the FBI was probably telling her without proof of life,

01:37:09.820 do not pay these people it will never end just you know let's wait for proof of life and then

01:37:15.900 we'll move forward from there and if they can't provide proof of life then we're probably dealing

01:37:21.960 we could very well be dealing with the wrong people you know it's just it's it's simple it

01:37:27.720 seems cold but it's it's how these things work basically as far as the apology do you i mean

01:37:35.860 Oh, go ahead.

01:37:36.920 Yeah.

01:37:38.460 Well, I'm interested in the apology because some have speculated online who would apologize.

01:37:43.720 What kind of a kidnapper apologizes for stealing an 84-year-old?

01:37:48.780 And does that tell us anything about who may have done it?

01:37:52.040 Well, people that apologize, over 90% of them are female, which is interesting.

01:37:58.040 And then also-

01:37:59.160 Oh, that's so true in life, too.

01:38:00.720 It is so true. 0.88

01:38:01.980 I hear these young women, you know, I'm sorry, sorry, sorry. 1.00

01:38:05.700 But also, go with God.

01:38:08.480 That's something obviously men and women can say, but it's a comforting.

01:38:12.740 It's designed to comfort the family.

01:38:16.760 Why would hardened criminals that are professionals want to comfort the family?

01:38:21.500 They would probably just be mad that they didn't get their money.

01:38:27.120 But they feel bad.

01:38:29.060 First of all, just for the record, it's amazing to me.

01:38:31.380 My husband and I have been married 18 years, together 20.

01:38:33.500 he never apologizes like maybe i've heard him apologize like three times he it's not that he

01:38:39.960 never takes responsibility you know he'll take responsibility but like the words i'm sorry

01:38:44.740 are so rare meanwhile your women are constantly like oh i'm sorry i'm sorry i'm sorry james we 0.97

01:38:51.540 blame you that's really where we're going with this yeah it's completely fine you're not an

01:38:54.920 apologizer yeah completely fine to blame me and us and good to see you again i uh i would say

01:39:01.500 there's there's a lack of personalization here that i would uh i would like to see and what i

01:39:06.500 mean by that is if maureen and i are working this up on the big board you will have all of the

01:39:11.580 specificity that could have been gleaned from a all the public information press conferences and

01:39:17.120 what have you drone footage media crops and all i've heard so far is watch outdoor light

01:39:23.740 pacemaker or heart condition all of this is public knowledge so if we're going to apologize and i'm

01:39:30.680 going to take it seriously i would like to see something like you know hey uh in the note we

01:39:35.100 apologize or i apologize for knocking over the picture in the room or more specificity i knocked

01:39:41.380 over the photo of your father okay that that would be okay we need to take this seriously

01:39:46.340 something that's not released to the public then yeah that there might be something to this but all

01:39:51.580 i'm hearing megan is what scam artists do they prey upon grief they prey upon your vulnerability 1.00

01:39:57.460 They're saying anything they can to get paid.

01:39:59.860 It really doesn't move the needle a lot for me.

01:40:02.500 And yet we know from Savannah yesterday

01:40:05.000 that she believes whoever wrote those notes

01:40:08.460 is the kidnapper.

01:40:10.640 So we're gonna talk about that.

01:40:11.760 And we put together all we know

01:40:13.260 about what was in the ransom notes

01:40:14.660 from Harvey Levin's multiple evolving statements on it.

01:40:19.800 We're gonna go there next,

01:40:20.820 plus what Savannah said today.

01:40:22.420 Stand by.

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01:42:00.740 There are a lot of different notes, I think, that came.

01:42:04.400 And I think most of them, it's my understanding, are not real.

01:42:09.280 And I didn't see them, but, um, you know, a person that would send a fake ransom note really has to look deeply at themselves to a family in pain.

01:42:26.880 but I believe the two notes that we received that we responded to

01:42:36.860 I tend to believe those are real all right so there she is back now with James Hamilton and

01:42:44.800 Maureen O'Connell she believes that those ransom notes are real so what do we know about those

01:42:50.200 notes we put together a montage of everything we could find Harvey Levin saying about them

01:42:55.360 since he's seen them. And here that is. So we got something in our email that looks like a

01:43:04.460 it's written like a ransom note for Savannah Guthrie's mother.

01:43:08.660 Specific. And there are very certain amounts of money. Very specific. And also they say at the

01:43:14.040 bottom there are certain things they're saying about what she was wearing and damage to the

01:43:18.780 house. That they're clearly saying to verify. It's us. We know what we're talking about.

01:43:24.440 They do mention an Apple watch, as the FBI said, and they do mention the floodlight, the damaged floodlight.

01:43:30.520 There is something else. And it is the placement of the Apple watch, which has not come out.

01:43:37.060 And if that placement is accurate, I'm sure that is something that puts this letter on the FBI's radar.

01:43:47.740 There are deadlines. I say plural deadlines in this letter.

01:43:53.820 and one is looming. The letter says that she will be returned within 12 hours back in the Tucson

01:44:01.940 area. And then if you look at 12 hours, that's a radius of about 700 miles.

01:44:06.760 That's how you calculated the map. Yeah, the map.

01:44:09.840 I know. And when I say I know, I am positive that authorities, including the FBI,

01:44:18.040 are vitally interested in that ransom note.

01:44:23.160 I know this to be true.

01:44:25.620 And I can't say the specifics because I promised I wouldn't,

01:44:30.540 but I can tell you they are absolutely still vitally interested in this ransom note.

01:44:39.460 Okay, so he, to clarify, received the first ransom note,

01:44:43.560 not the second one, which nerdy addict thinks they have a scoop on today. We know precious

01:44:50.980 little about the second one from authorities or from the media that has received it. KOLD TV

01:44:57.460 Tucson is the one that received the second one. And again, as I said to you, they reported the

01:45:01.900 new note contains something the sender seemed to think will prove to investigators. They're the

01:45:06.060 same people who sent the first note. And the response to it by the Guthrie family was,

01:45:11.980 we received your message. We understand. We beg you now to return our mother to us

01:45:16.840 so that we can celebrate with her. This is the only way we will have peace. This is

01:45:20.840 very valuable to us and we will pay. So what do you make of that collection of information there,

01:45:28.340 James? Certain, they say something about what Nancy's wearing in the first note.

01:45:33.960 They mentioned the Apple watch and the placement of it. They mentioned the floodlights. They

01:45:39.340 mentioned deadlines and something about being within 12 hours of the Tucson area so that they

01:45:46.880 could get Nancy back to the Guthries within, you know, that amount of time. Does that tell you

01:45:54.860 anything? Do you have any new insights on it? There is some specificity. Again, I would need

01:46:01.240 to know, are there any publicly released photos of Ms. Guthrie with the Apple Watch on? If not,

01:46:09.080 Yes. She was on the Today Show with Savannah wearing it.

01:46:12.820 Well, then it's not as crucial to me.

01:46:15.100 Again, something very specific, like instead of saying nightgown, like if they gave a very specific, and again, I don't know because I haven't read the note, but if it was a very specific type of nightgown with maybe a tear or a stain, something that we would not know, but Savannah and the family would know, then that would lead me to believe, okay, we need to take this seriously and we need to respond.

01:46:39.180 We need to have correspondence with this individual. And the very first thing I'd be asking for is, you know, I'd let them know what we want to pay, but I need to know she's alive, period. And then I don't know, you know, did that happen? And if it did happen, what was the next response, right? Did something go wrong in the negotiation and we're just not being told? But you said it, we're just not being told. There's a lot of information we don't have.

01:47:01.540 What do you make, James, of the, if this is true, the report by Nerdy, of the report that the kidnapper apologized in the second note?

01:47:14.160 I'm sorry, and she's gone to be with God?

01:47:17.280 Yeah.

01:47:17.780 Again, I've seen notes like that with regards to a scam.

01:47:22.220 I've seen anything they can say to, you know, curry favor to feel as though, you know, because she's clearly grieving Savannah and the family.

01:47:30.580 so he's playing upon that right and and i know she said something like you know how could someone do

01:47:35.520 that and i'm sorry to say this but there's truly evil people walking this planet and they do do

01:47:40.500 this and this is how they act and they will make you believe a lot of things that's why they're

01:47:44.300 scam artists that's why they're successful and they play they prey upon that grief the vulnerability

01:47:49.280 the sadness again you know they will say whatever it takes to get that money and to apologize or

01:47:55.560 you know say they went with god it's like one of the tells is maureen i'm sure can tell you say

01:47:59.540 this as well, Maureen, but as an investigator, when everyone, someone says, you know, I swear

01:48:04.180 to God that whenever they, they put that on you, they're letting you, they're literally lying and

01:48:09.400 they're trying to make you think they're telling the truth. They always say things like that.

01:48:14.320 That is so true. Phil Houston, who's a lifelong CIA guy who literally wrote the book called Spy

01:48:20.500 the Lie, he's a human lie detector, said, says that one of the things he looks at to figure out

01:48:26.640 whether somebody's lying is,

01:48:27.860 has to happen within the first five seconds

01:48:29.320 of asking the question.

01:48:30.740 So you need a cluster.

01:48:32.060 You need two of his deception indicators

01:48:35.240 to happen within the first five seconds

01:48:36.800 of asking the question.

01:48:38.040 So in other words, sometimes people will look away.

01:48:40.900 That's not a tell unless it's part of a cluster.

01:48:44.360 Has to be at least two things.

01:48:45.480 So if you look away and hands go above the midline

01:48:49.220 because you do that when you're lying.

01:48:51.480 You can do it normally too if you're like I am,

01:48:53.260 like Italian, but it can be,

01:48:56.220 you're lying, you have adrenaline pumping through your body. And it's amazing. He has all these

01:49:01.280 videos of people lying. It has to shoot out of you. The electricity that runs through your body

01:49:06.240 when you are lying, it does shoot out of you someplace. That's why your hands go above the

01:49:10.140 midline. Touching your face is a big one, like your ear, your hair, your nose, your mouth.

01:49:16.420 Or if you see somebody sitting with the legs crossed, you'll see them start to do this with

01:49:20.480 the leg, it starts to like kick. It's amazing how you cannot keep the adrenaline from lying

01:49:26.340 in your body. But anyway, yeah, you're right. One of his is referencing God, James.

01:49:31.940 Yeah. And for me, I think now it's become an absolute pet peeve of mine. But if I asked you

01:49:38.180 a question and you were to respond to me and you say, well, honestly, James, or to tell you the 1.00

01:49:43.280 truth, James, well, all I hear is you're a liar. You lie all the time. And right now you just want 0.99

01:49:50.100 me to believe you because you're prefacing the answer. Honest people like you and me, I just

01:49:55.420 give you the answer, and that is what it is. I don't need to preface it. But also, I just want

01:50:00.760 to say, I looked at the February 3rd press conference with the sheriff, and that information's

01:50:05.620 out there, right? So to say she's gone with God, that clearly is already out there and prays upon,

01:50:12.760 you know, oh, they care about God as well. I've seen it. These scammers, they'll do anything and

01:50:18.420 say anything, and we know publicly that Ms. Guthrie was supposed to be at a church meeting

01:50:24.220 that morning. Oh, I see. So at the press conference, he revealed that she was supposed

01:50:29.320 to be at church, and so you're saying that these scammers, if that's what they were,

01:50:33.560 knew that a reference to God might play with the Guthrie family. That's right.

01:50:37.740 Or it may have just been, if in fact the nerdy report is true, them lying and covering it up

01:50:43.900 with a reference to she's gone with God. 0.80

01:50:45.780 We don't know.

01:50:47.200 You know, there's a lot,

01:50:48.440 there have been a lot of good questions asked

01:50:50.260 about Savannah's interview yesterday.

01:50:54.140 Many by just armchair detectives

01:50:57.040 or, you know, regular civilians, Maureen,

01:50:59.460 who have been covering this case.

01:51:01.420 And I saw one woman on my X feed today

01:51:03.240 asking a really good question about this soundbite.

01:51:06.480 Let me play it and then we'll talk about it.

01:51:08.440 This is Savannah talking about the moments

01:51:10.980 she found out from Annie that Nancy was missing. And my sister called me and I said, is everything

01:51:19.620 okay? And she said, no, she said, mom's missing. And I said, what are you talking about? She said,

01:51:29.860 she's gone. And we, she was in a panic. I was in a panic. I'm like, call 911. She's like, I did.

01:51:40.620 We've called them. They're here. And we thought that she must have had like some kind of medical episode in the night and that somehow, you know, the paramedics had come because the back doors were propped open, you know, and that didn't make any sense.

01:52:01.020 We thought maybe they came and there was a stretcher and they took her out the back.

01:52:05.400 But her phone was there and her purse was there and all her things.

01:52:10.740 And it just didn't make any sense.

01:52:13.200 So, you know, Annie and Tommy had already called all the hospitals.

01:52:17.620 But then I'm like, I'm going to call the hospital.

01:52:20.140 So then I started calling the hospitals and the police were there and talking to her at the same time.

01:52:26.220 And it was just chaos and disbelief.

01:52:29.320 Okay, in the longer version of the clip, Savannah sets up that story by saying her husband had been away on a guy's weekend that weekend, and he had just come home, and that she had been at Carson Daly's house with her kids all day, and she had just gotten home, and that they were getting ready, it was the evening, and then the sister called.

01:52:52.120 Well, we know from the authorities that 9-1-1 was called just after noon that morning, right?

01:52:59.900 Nancy, they revised the timeline, but they said at 1157, they realized Nancy wasn't there.

01:53:04.520 They called 9-1-1 and that 9-1-1 got there.

01:53:07.240 The authorities got there just after noon.

01:53:09.020 So that would have been just after 3 p.m. East Coast time.

01:53:13.500 So hours, hours went by from the sound of it before Annie Guthrie called Savannah.

01:53:20.980 And I would give this woman online credit, but I didn't actually see her name.

01:53:24.240 But she was saying, you only have one other sister.

01:53:28.860 And she's got, Annie Guthrie has a brother, Cameron, and she's got a sister, Savannah.

01:53:33.000 And the sister happens to have major resources. 1.00

01:53:35.700 But the point is, you know your mother's potentially missing.

01:53:40.080 You've now been to the house.

01:53:41.100 There's blood.

01:53:42.000 There's blood throughout the house.

01:53:44.580 The door's propped open.

01:53:46.320 Nancy's missing.

01:53:47.080 the ring camera's been it's gone the nest camera's gone you wait hours two or three hours

01:53:55.440 to call your sister to say like have you heard from mom and by the way you do all the hospital

01:54:05.360 calls too before you loop in the sister like I could see if your sister's missing

01:54:15.120 You do all that legwork yourself before you loop in your mom, whom you don't want to panic.

01:54:21.880 But your sister is your sister in arms.

01:54:24.880 Like your siblings, they're in it with you as a sibling.

01:54:29.260 You're like, this is our mom.

01:54:30.860 Like, it's all hands on deck.

01:54:32.240 And also, wouldn't you have just called her to say, have you heard from her?

01:54:37.780 like it is very strange the more i think about it that annie guthrie did not call savannah guthrie

01:54:44.420 for hours apparently and after she knew that something had gone very very wrong with the

01:54:51.340 mother she was probably just you know i mean she's gonna say annie's gonna say that she was

01:54:58.040 trying to figure it out and that she and tomasa were but to your point you know i would absolutely

01:55:03.160 one of my first phone calls would be like to one of my sisters, hey, get on the phone and 1.00

01:55:08.180 call these three hospitals. I'll have Eileen call the other three hospitals or divvy up these 1.00

01:55:13.520 nearby hospitals between the two of you. I'm here doing a ground search. I'm trying to find mom in

01:55:19.220 the house. I have no idea why the door is propped open. There's blood in the front entryway. But I

01:55:25.320 could see how the only thing that really stands out to me is that door being propped open. Not

01:55:31.320 the only thing. But the thing that really blows my mind is that door being propped open because

01:55:36.720 she apparently left through the front door. And I mean, was the initial plan to pull the

01:55:43.380 car around back and then they had to abort mission and the driver came up on the circle

01:55:48.240 driveway instead and then they went out the front door? I don't know. But with them removing

01:55:53.940 the camera, that makes me believe that part of the plan was to remove Nancy via the front 0.55

01:55:59.900 door. And perhaps if it was a kidnapping to begin with, that was the plan, they wouldn't want the

01:56:07.140 family to see what condition she was in when they pulled her out of that house. 0.98

01:56:13.120 Well, we speculated yesterday, James was here, about whether maybe they did take her out of

01:56:20.820 the house. Maybe they threw her over the shoulder and walked out of the front of the house. 0.90

01:56:23.400 And one of the questions I have is, does Savannah know that her mother was wearing

01:56:28.140 the pajamas. She said that yesterday without her shoes in her pajamas, because she's seen maybe

01:56:35.060 additional images from the Nest camera that the rest of us haven't seen, or is it more likely that

01:56:43.240 she's going off of what was in that first ransom note that she's taking so seriously, James,

01:56:48.000 which you heard Harvey Levin say, describes what Nancy was wearing. And maybe she's just going by

01:56:55.380 that, that she, maybe the note says we took her in her pajamas without her shoes.

01:57:00.520 Yeah. And it's interesting. I didn't catch, but what she led with was that when she talked,

01:57:06.840 when Savannah, what she led with was when she talked to her sister, that her sister said,

01:57:11.400 something's odd, mom's missing. And notice she said the door was propped open. Well,

01:57:16.380 what about the blood? If you and I were brother and sister, Megan, and I called you and I said,

01:57:21.840 hey, there's blood all over mom's porch. I'd lead with that. I wouldn't lead with door propped

01:57:27.580 open, right? I'd lead with blood. I'd lead with a camera knocked off the front. That was not said.

01:57:35.360 And I try not to ever really get involved in family dynamics and why, you know, a call was

01:57:41.880 made or not made. You know, we just don't know enough. I don't know enough about that family

01:57:47.500 dynamic, but if they're taking care of, meaning if Savannah's sister and her brother-in-law are

01:57:53.160 taking care of the mother and they're there frequently, there might be a lot of things

01:57:57.140 going on that they don't ever call Savannah about. Again, I don't know the family well enough. I do

01:58:02.760 know families, and sometimes that does happen. So I don't find the three hours terribly strange,

01:58:09.140 but I do have a problem with not knowing about. So did she not know about the blood? Why not lead

01:58:14.320 with that. It makes me feel like they didn't know. It's possible she's been told not to discuss

01:58:22.320 evidence at the crime scene. Maybe she thinks the blood is not to be discussed, even though

01:58:28.060 we've all seen it. I mean, it's not a secret, thanks to the investigators.

01:58:32.160 I feel like they didn't know. I feel like the law enforcement, they remember yesterday we talked

01:58:36.720 about law enforcement trying to talk. It sounds like they're trying to tell the family it's not

01:58:40.600 a big deal. People go missing all the time. And the family keeps saying, no, no, you don't

01:58:44.080 understand. She can't just walk away. She has this hard thing. No mention. I think maybe they

01:58:50.720 started searching later and then found this blood and then called a crime scene unit and all those

01:58:56.260 things. I think that took a while because if they had known that in the beginning, then certainly

01:59:01.480 the prop door is a concern, but blood's more concerning. And I think I lead with that one.

01:59:06.380 mm-hmm i would too but meanwhile she yeah go ahead with regard to what she was wearing 1.00

01:59:12.680 it could be a simple case megan of um you know one of the granddaughters bought her a hello kitty

01:59:19.300 sleep shirt or something and she always wore either that or this other thing and they all

01:59:24.120 know it and you know or something very anecdotal like that and they noticed that one of them was

01:59:29.320 missing that their sleep shirt she always wears is missing something distinctive you know that's

01:59:35.480 what I've thought of when I heard that. I mean, I'll tell you something. I know exactly what my

01:59:40.480 mom sleeps in. I know exactly what it is. And if somebody ever took her while wearing it,

01:59:45.180 they'd be able to convince me in a heartbeat that they had her. It's like distinctive. I know

01:59:50.120 every option she has and what she does. So if that's the case here, then maybe there was

01:59:56.020 something that really convinced them this person in the first note is the person. But I have my

02:00:01.720 doubts because we have seen the Apple Watch on Nancy on previous Today Show segments. We've seen

02:00:08.540 Nancy's cane on previous segments. I don't know if they mentioned the cane, but they might have

02:00:13.680 known that she was not that mobile from that information. We've seen, as we discussed now,

02:00:19.380 the inside of Nancy's bedroom in that videotape that we found from 2013. I don't know whether

02:00:24.500 this person ever saw that, but if you were doing a planned kidnapping on Nancy, you might take a

02:00:29.320 deep dive into whatever segments you could find where they showed the inside of Nancy's home,

02:00:33.660 which they did on the Today Show. So it's very possible this person could write a convincing

02:00:37.700 note that they had Nancy, even if they didn't. As we've discussed before, I don't understand a

02:00:44.360 kidnapper who's like, check the floodlight as proof that I have Nancy. Like Maureen,

02:00:51.060 that just doesn't like the floodlight. That's something anyone can see from the outside of the

02:00:55.160 house. Well, yeah, the floodlight. But the Apple Watch, I'm convinced because for the FBI to take

02:00:59.580 this seriously, and James can agree with me because they were talking about it. They got

02:01:04.460 together. Everyone discussed it. It had to be something specific, like I ripped her Apple Watch

02:01:11.180 off. I broke the buckle to where she hooked it on. I threw it. He said it was the location.

02:01:17.560 I threw it under her nightstand or under the dresser, or I threw it into the bathroom.

02:01:24.800 something like that. So it's got a couple of elements that just no one else knew about unless

02:01:30.000 they were there. That's exactly right. Go ahead, James. Yeah, that's exactly right. And yeah,

02:01:35.040 I just, again, she's very emotional and she's hanging on to any thread at all. And so for her

02:01:42.560 to believe that, you know, the note was for real, I completely understand how that could happen due

02:01:47.800 to, you know, the emotional nature of it. And not to say that her brother's not emotional, but I'd

02:01:52.800 love to hear from him. Did he think, or did the sister, the other sister believe that, you know,

02:01:58.140 this was real? I'd like to hear from them. And again, I could see her believing that because

02:02:05.000 of the, you know, they are, these victims are hanging on to any shred of hope that, you know,

02:02:10.680 it's going to be a good outcome. I mean, I do think it's interesting that the brother,

02:02:15.660 this fighter pilot, his mind immediately went to she was kidnapped for ransom. Like Savannah told

02:02:23.300 us that yesterday without even, and he didn't get there until a couple of days in James. So that was

02:02:28.080 him just being, just having the crime scene described to him by phone. He immediately went to

02:02:33.480 someone stole her to extort money from us because knowing Savannah had means.

02:02:39.440 Exactly. You know, and that's kind of what, again, what I was talking about yesterday,

02:02:42.520 You know, he was intuitively he was putting it together. And, you know, if you've ever been through a traumatic situation, you know, that's exactly what happens.

02:02:53.020 I was actually stalked one time and and the cops were asking me, you know, who do you think it is?

02:02:58.800 And I immediately put it together. And, you know, I had no train. This was I was very young.

02:03:02.760 I didn't have any training in FBI stuff or stalking or any of that. But I just, you know, put it together intuitively that is so and so.

02:03:08.960 And sure enough, that's exactly who was stalking me. So it doesn't surprise me at all that that's what happened. Again, intuition is a very powerful thing, and it operates at a subconscious level faster than a computer. And he put it together very quickly and not surprised by it at all.

02:03:26.160 And Megan, the fighter pilots, they go through all kinds of training of being taken into custody by state actors and others and tortured.

02:03:38.960 And so they go through a whole series of training where when something goes bad, it usually goes bad pretty quickly.

02:03:45.580 And, you know, with that front door or that back door propped open, her not being there, she obviously didn't walk away.

02:03:53.800 Blood on the front doorstep.

02:03:55.320 I wonder how long it was before they called him.

02:03:57.920 I just think that timeframe,

02:03:59.880 if that timeframe is correct,

02:04:00.980 that is really odd to me.

02:04:03.660 Me too.

02:04:04.420 I had my producers transcribe exactly what she said

02:04:09.080 about when she found out.

02:04:11.460 Well, she said, we just, Mike, that's her husband's name.

02:04:14.680 I'd given Mike for Christmas a boy's trip 0.94

02:04:16.760 to go play tennis.

02:04:18.000 And so he had been gone for the weekend.

02:04:20.280 So I took my kids actually to Carson's.

02:04:23.220 So we had a beautiful, fun night together.

02:04:26.900 And then he came home, meaning Mike,

02:04:29.460 and really I just got home

02:04:31.200 at the same time that Mike came home.

02:04:33.720 We were just saying hi, putting down our stuff,

02:04:36.240 and the kids were running around.

02:04:37.740 And my sister called me and I said, is everything okay?

02:04:40.720 And she said, no, she said, mom's missing.

02:04:42.840 She uses the term, the word night,

02:04:46.220 that she and her kids and Carson's family

02:04:49.260 had a beautiful, fun night together.

02:04:52.280 So now, and she clearly found out Sunday evening.

02:04:55.080 She didn't, she's not talking about the next day.

02:04:57.620 So, and it hasn't happened on Saturday night.

02:04:59.700 So it was, maybe.

02:05:01.080 No, it couldn't have been the night before.

02:05:02.400 Oh.

02:05:03.340 Had to be Sunday night.

02:05:04.960 And, and she, it was definitely Sunday night

02:05:06.900 because she's saying, you heard the rest of the soundbite

02:05:09.620 that I played for you where she's saying,

02:05:11.160 you know, have you called the hospital?

02:05:12.860 She's like, I already did that.

02:05:14.100 Like, it's all unfolding still.

02:05:16.800 And she's like, call 911. 0.98

02:05:18.600 We did that.

02:05:19.120 They're here, she says.

02:05:20.240 So it's like, this is Sunday night she got the call.

02:05:23.280 It's very strange.

02:05:24.200 I don't know how many hours elapsed between Annie Guthrie calling the cops, 911's at the 0.95

02:05:30.280 house, you're calling all the hospitals, your mother's blood is there, she's missing, her

02:05:34.420 purse is there, her phone is there, and you don't think to call the other sister to say, 0.67

02:05:40.700 have you heard from mom?

02:05:42.400 Like, that is very strange.

02:05:44.440 I don't know what it means, you guys, but it's strange.

02:05:47.340 It is.

02:05:47.980 um unless she tried to call her and she didn't answer and that's why um savannah said is everything

02:05:54.360 okay because i like looking at it like oh i missed two calls from my sister annie i i don't know but

02:06:00.260 it is strange i don't know i mean can i ask you frankly like do we still suspect annie slash

02:06:06.100 tomas who she calls tommy the the evidence that we shouldn't is chad air is reporting on our air

02:06:14.580 that he has a source boots on the ground in Arizona who says they've taken polygraphs

02:06:18.840 and passed, quote, with flying colors. The sheriff who said they've been cleared,

02:06:24.160 but then he backed that off a little by saying they're not suspects at this time.

02:06:30.300 No one's been arrested. And Chad's other information was, quote, there are no suspects

02:06:35.760 right now. Savannah saying, if you knew how much like they take care of my mom, 1.00

02:06:43.560 Like those two are so loving and like completely took care of Nancy sounds like in a very loving way in Savannah's judgment.

02:06:51.720 So is it time to completely move on from Annie and Tomas?

02:06:55.960 Maureen, what do you think?

02:06:57.040 No, but I'm not I'm not blaming them, but I'm not stepping away from them.

02:07:01.200 I'm objective. I'm going to go wherever the evidence leads me.

02:07:04.460 However, I do think it's got to be someone that knew Nancy.

02:07:10.460 I don't think it was a complete stranger.

02:07:13.560 I think it was someone that interacted with her, knew how vulnerable she was, and the fact that she was vulnerable and she also had access to a great deal of money if, in fact, it was a kidnapping from the beginning.

02:07:27.940 We just don't have enough information on this end of the deal right now.

02:07:32.020 And if this were my case or James, we would probably love it if everyone was saying, hey, we don't have any suspects whatsoever.

02:07:41.380 Just let people go and do what they do, and we'll just put our head down and try to solve this case.

02:07:48.940 Interesting.

02:07:49.740 So we're hoping that was a head fake thrown out to possibly throw off the suspects, if any, that they do have.

02:07:58.820 Let's pray.

02:07:59.380 Let's pray, God, that that's actually what is happening here, that Chad has been used by somebody trying to throw everybody or the suspects that they do have off the scent.

02:08:09.220 Well, look at the Corey Richens case.

02:08:11.380 She was out free and clear, and his family was just like, what is going on?

02:08:17.380 It's obvious she did it.

02:08:18.400 Well, it took him a year to build the case.

02:08:20.860 Sometimes, oftentimes, it takes a long time to build a case.

02:08:25.740 These people were pretty careful, wouldn't you say, James, with no comms or little comms.

02:08:30.700 I still think they had walkie-talkies, not jammers and stuff.

02:08:33.760 I'm always going for the simpler.

02:08:35.220 No traceable comms. 1.00

02:08:36.420 Yeah, I mean, that first day I was with you, I said that they're not that stupid. 0.99

02:08:40.540 They haven't been caught yet. 0.99

02:08:41.380 So, you know, and I think we were laughing about the gun placement and all that.

02:08:44.900 But here we are 53 days later, as Megan said, and we got nothing.

02:08:48.400 So I think they're laughing more than anybody. 1.00

02:08:51.100 They're not that stupid. 0.98

02:08:52.840 And, you know, again, with regards to, you know, they passed or quote unquote passed with quote unquote flying colors. 0.99

02:08:59.400 I mean, it's NDI and no deception indicated would be what the polygrapher said.

02:09:04.700 And again, they don't pass with flying colors.

02:09:07.460 They does just no such thing as that.

02:09:09.720 they do the test. And if there's no detection indicated, then okay, they passed. But again,

02:09:15.780 I don't know, Megan, I don't know the polygrapher. I don't know if he or she has a tremendous amount

02:09:20.340 of experience. They might. I don't know. I'd like to know that. I'd like to know what the control

02:09:24.580 questions were. I'd like to know specifically what the questions were. So I'll give you a good

02:09:28.480 example. If the question was, did you do this? And they say, and they didn't, by the way, have

02:09:34.580 anything to actually do with it physically, and they were just like paying someone to do it,

02:09:37.940 they would pass on that question if they said no i didn't have any i did not do this that would be

02:09:43.680 the answer but if they paid someone to do it then they would pass they would not show deception so

02:09:49.680 i'd like to know what the questions were specifically and who did it how good is this

02:09:54.540 polygrapher to let me feel a little bit better about the the results but again without the body

02:10:00.820 without solving the case i can't say that really anyone is quote unquote cleared because i have

02:10:06.740 nothing, right? I still don't have the case solved, and I still don't have the body. So I'm not saying

02:10:13.560 anyone's ruled out, you know, that you might have an alibi, but it doesn't mean you didn't benefit

02:10:18.900 in some way, shape, or form, you know, and I'm just not going to say that. Again, why do that?

02:10:24.460 You don't need to do that. Why would we? By virtue of the fact that the polygraphs took place

02:10:29.440 at the sheriff's station, my guess is it's a law enforcement polygrapher, which are- I don't think

02:10:35.700 they did. Yeah. I don't think we know that. No, I think, I think we believe, we believe that they

02:10:40.560 took place probably at the family's homes because Ashley Banfield was suggesting she, like people

02:10:46.440 had the cop station staked out and the family had not been there. Brian Enten reported that he

02:10:51.900 thought it was at the sheriff's station. And so my only point is no matter where it was, if the family

02:10:56.900 hired a polygrapher and as a crisis manager, I would say, let's just polygraph everyone, get it

02:11:03.500 over with and we can put that out so you guys are off the hook at least you know so if it's a

02:11:08.760 polygrapher hired by the family to conduct these interviews that that goes into one bucket the

02:11:15.380 wishy-washy one if it's an fbi profiler or a sheriff's department profiler that's conducting

02:11:21.120 this in in a according to law enforcement protocols that that gets a lot more weight

02:11:26.780 from me. She's exactly right. She's a hundred percent right, Megan. If this was a family

02:11:32.320 thing, that's a totally different thing than a law enforcement custodial type polygraph at the

02:11:39.820 police station. That is a totally different thing. And I'm just trying to remember, we can go back

02:11:45.340 and check this, but if my memory serves, Brian Enten was the first to report that people were

02:11:49.660 being polygraphed and that it was happening at the sheriff's station, because then we added to

02:11:54.400 the reporting that they rarely do that at this sheriff's department, that they're not big. One

02:11:59.500 of the other like detectives came on the record saying it's rare for them to polygraph anybody.

02:12:04.940 And then there was a second report later that the family had been polygraphed. And I don't know,

02:12:11.240 did Brian specifically report that the family went to the sheriff's to be polygraphed?

02:12:17.300 He did not, but he saw, he heard that polygraphs were happening at the sheriff's department.

02:12:21.820 and then the sheriff's department mentioned to someone that they have new hires that they were

02:12:27.160 polygraphing. Yeah, polygraphing. And so, you know, so young sheriff's deputies were being

02:12:34.540 polygraphed. Oh, not potential suspects in this case. Right. But then after that. Okay, so we

02:12:40.540 don't know. I'll tell you right now, I don't believe the family went down to the sheriff's

02:12:44.340 office for a polygraph. I'm telling you, in Savannah's position, you would say, fuck off. 1.00

02:12:48.620 No. If you want to polygraph me, I'll do it. I'm going to do it right here. Otherwise, 1.00

02:12:52.340 it can become a media spectacle. And I'm not giving anybody videotape of me or my sister

02:12:57.680 and my brother-in-law, who I already think are being unfairly smeared, walking into the police

02:13:01.800 station because this is going to add to more speculation and that's the last thing we need.

02:13:05.780 And this sheriff is obviously trying to please Savannah. That's why he came out and said,

02:13:09.600 everyone's cleared, which is not a term he could use, right, since no one's under arrest.

02:13:13.880 And it's the DA that makes that decision anyways. It's the prosecutors that make the

02:13:18.280 decision who's going to get charged. Who's heard two words from the DA? I don't even know who the

02:13:22.660 DA is. We've been covering this case how many times together? I have no idea. We'd ever heard

02:13:26.220 from the DA. There seems to be a lot of dissonance amongst the leadership in Pima County because

02:13:32.280 normally in these press conferences or anything like this, you'd have everyone up there together

02:13:37.980 showing unity. We're working together. We're all on the same page, fighting the good fight

02:13:43.640 for the family, for the victims. I wouldn't know who the DA was if I tripped over her or him.

02:13:50.920 No, that's what Matt Murphy's been saying, James, all along. You know, lifetime prosecutor,

02:13:54.740 now he's doing some defense work for cops. But he's like, where's the DA? In every case I ever

02:14:00.200 handled, the DA was the face of the case. The DA would be driving the direction and the DA would

02:14:04.540 be the one saying whether somebody had been cleared or not. Yeah, it's exactly right. It's

02:14:08.720 disparate, as we've kind of talked about before. Very little task force feeling, very little

02:14:15.700 combination of resources. It's a lot of the Sheriff Nano show, it feels like. And I'm with

02:14:21.560 you all. I don't know who the district attorney is. I don't know even if the FBI is still involved.

02:14:26.500 Last thing I heard was they were, you know, pulling resources back to Phoenix. They called

02:14:30.580 it a tactical reallocation. Well, that sounds to me as, you know, they're not heavily involved here

02:14:35.920 either. And that's not good because you need those resources for all of the various things

02:14:41.120 we're talking about, the evidence, the leads, other states, other countries. You're going to

02:14:46.860 need the FBI. You cannot do that alone as a Pima County Sheriff. And lastly, you see a lot of bad

02:14:52.540 optics here. I've been seeing a lot of videos of him in his Corvette going to the gym every day.

02:14:58.940 It's just a bad optic. I'm not saying the guy can't have a life, but certainly she's not at

02:15:03.900 the gym. You know, Ms. Guthrie's not there. Yeah. Yeah. And by the way, we're supposed to believe

02:15:10.860 that an 84-year-old woman has been kidnapped and might still be out there in need of finding,

02:15:17.560 in need of our help. Like, it isn't a good look. If Nancy Guthrie, I mean, there is, it's remote,

02:15:22.380 but there is a possibility that she's still alive and suffering. So go to work. Work out in your

02:15:28.100 basement. Stop parading around in your Corvette. And we saw it at the basketball game early on.

02:15:33.260 it's so insensitive. This is why no one likes him. It's a real bad. I wanted to play this one

02:15:37.780 soundbite. Today's piece of the Savannah interview was all emotional. It was like, you know, it's like

02:15:43.380 the typical today show, pull on the heartstrings. There, there wasn't news, but I did want to play

02:15:48.000 one piece of it in light of the nerdy report, which again is unconfirmed, but nerdy's reporting

02:15:53.360 that the second ransom note suggested she's with God. I didn't realize how bad her heart condition

02:15:58.500 was, and she's with God. Listen to what Savannah says here, and I'll explain why I'm tying them

02:16:05.680 together. Saw 25. How can someone vanish without a trace? How? Someone knows something. Even if

02:16:16.160 that something is, someone's been acting strange for the last seven, eight weeks, even if it's just

02:16:25.240 that. Somebody knows. And maybe somebody's afraid. I understand that. But our hearts

02:16:40.400 are in agony we can't breathe we can't live we can't go on we can't be at peace we can't go forward

02:16:56.020 we have to know what happened to her it's hard to watch it's awful and you can completely

02:17:05.520 relate to it. I think of these poor parents who lose kids, you know, who have missing children.

02:17:12.160 Like, I don't know how you'd wake up, how you'd get, how you do anything, knowing your child was

02:17:16.520 out there. And I'm sure the pain is in that neighborhood when it's your 84-year-old mom,

02:17:22.380 who is also a dependent in many ways. You know, it's like, I have an 84-year-old mom.

02:17:29.380 It's a tough time of life. You know, it's a tough time. And you know what, my mom is a lot like

02:17:33.960 savannah's mom my mom also lost her husband when my mom was 44 her mom was 49 it was a sudden heart

02:17:39.780 attack for her dad and mine my dad died at 45 her dad died at 49 it was like it's really crazy some

02:17:46.540 of the parallels of our lives same here my dad died into some of this stuff 45 really yeah and

02:17:52.400 left my mom with six kids oh my god i mean right so like you can relate to what she's feeling about

02:18:01.000 her poor mom who's been through a lot and got her through a lot and now needs her, needs her

02:18:06.440 to help her, needed her before she got kidnapped, I'm sure to help her live and maintain her 0.96

02:18:11.880 independence and now needs her to find her. But to me, I couldn't tell if Savannah was trying to

02:18:18.720 telegraph there at the end, like we think she's still alive or just we need to know one way or

02:18:22.900 the other. Um, but she didn't sound to me like somebody who totally knew the mom was dead.

02:18:30.260 And like, that would undermine the reporting from nerdy, no offense to nerdy, but the reporting

02:18:37.160 might be incorrect that they, that they'd been, the family hasn't sounded to me like they

02:18:40.720 definitively know Nancy's dead. They sounded, they've sounded to me since like that, since the

02:18:47.000 first, excuse the first video they did where they were like, we need to know you have her and that

02:18:51.520 she's alive. Then they started to sound a little bit more like they suspected she was dead. Like

02:18:56.340 we need to celebrate with her. And they, you know, they seem less, less hopeful, but I haven't heard

02:19:02.620 anything from them, James, suggesting they know Nancy's dead. Yeah. She's holding out hope. And

02:19:08.620 I think, unfortunately, as you work these cases and, you know, Maureen and I have, it's just

02:19:13.560 tragic. And she's going to continue to always hold out hope. And, you know, again, if this

02:19:19.460 prolongs, which I think it will, in a year from now, we still don't have the body. I think she's

02:19:24.980 obviously going to feel more inclined to believe that her mom is gone, but not 100%. She'll always

02:19:31.220 hold out hope that she's going to come back, that she's still alive. That's a very common feeling

02:19:37.420 of a family member, but I'm with you. I think she's not believing that her mom's gone and that

02:19:44.460 She is holding out hope that he's still there.

02:19:46.860 And again, I think going back to her question, you know, how does someone just vanish?

02:19:52.580 That's where I am.

02:19:53.800 And we, everyone collectively, needs to put pressure on this sheriff or whoever's running

02:20:00.620 this case, because again, I don't really know.

02:20:03.040 But what is going on?

02:20:04.860 Give us an update.

02:20:06.200 You know, like hold them, like you were saying yesterday, the value of the media in this

02:20:10.520 case is to continue to ask questions.

02:20:13.660 where is the district attorney someone should be down there with a microphone going what are you

02:20:17.980 doing what is going on if we just you resigned ourselves to say this case is over that is

02:20:23.340 unacceptable right like that that's the purpose of this continue to put pressure on them so that

02:20:29.520 it's not you know acceptable that nothing has happened and there are no leads and we can't

02:20:33.980 find this lady because that's going to set a precedent that that's just how we act around here 1.00

02:20:38.240 And that is not what we want to be doing.

02:20:40.840 It is weird.

02:20:42.180 Like, Maureen, if I were Sheriff Nonos, I'd call a presser.

02:20:45.240 Yeah.

02:20:45.620 Like, there's no better way to get the media reinterested in this case than call a presser.

02:20:50.260 Give us the latest update.

02:20:52.100 You know, whatever you have, I'm sure he's got a couple of nuggets that he could feed

02:20:54.980 to the media to get people reinterested in this.

02:20:57.760 But why don't they?

02:20:59.280 I have no idea why, but it could be as simple as, hey, we got 12,000 tips overall, and we

02:21:05.060 did a triage and all the strong tips went to the top of the list. We're working our way down. We're

02:21:10.560 down to we have another 600 to go. We're still, you know, but I think honestly, I think part of

02:21:17.940 the reason why the FBI pulled the resources back to Phoenix is they're going to be in their own

02:21:23.160 space. They're going to have, you know, they're going to have all the FBI resources, but it also

02:21:29.080 creates distance between them and nano so they can just do what they want to do. And it also gives

02:21:34.060 breathing room to the detectives in Pima County that are assigned to that task force so they can

02:21:39.700 just work with the FBI and stay a little bit away from the drama. If she was taken by kidnappers

02:21:47.560 because Savannah is well known and has money and the first ransom demand came in and they believe

02:21:55.120 it, Savannah to this moment believes it was from the people who took her mom, why didn't they pay?

02:22:04.060 Truly, I know they didn't give proof of life, but she's telling us she believed she was communicating with the people who had Nancy.

02:22:11.560 Like, would the FBI have been saying, even though you believe it, we suspect, we got a hunch this is them, don't pay without proof of life?

02:22:21.420 Well, we don't know how many ransom notes they got.

02:22:23.680 Because she mentioned in this, in that last clip, that of all the ransom notes, well, we only know of three.

02:22:30.020 My guess is the other ones went to either the Pima County Sheriff or the FBI.

02:22:34.060 In which case, we don't know about those.

02:22:36.860 So maybe the FBI is like, listen, we have one here, one at Pima County, and this other one, and let's give the money to whoever comes up with the proof of life.

02:22:46.340 I don't know.

02:22:47.880 There's got to be a method to that.

02:22:50.340 That's exactly right.

02:22:51.560 Were the FBI even in the room?

02:22:52.920 They would have taken Nancy back dead or alive. 0.98

02:22:57.560 Oh, yeah.

02:22:57.920 So it's like, is proof of life even what they're actually looking for?

02:23:01.200 It's like proof that you did it is really, right?

02:23:03.860 Like that's, we should play, we should play the message where they said, yeah, okay, this

02:23:11.680 is Saturday night.

02:23:12.640 They've received both ransom notes from the Bitcoin guy saying, this is the person that

02:23:18.540 Harvey says said, this is what she was wearing.

02:23:21.300 She had the Apple watch and exactly the placement of it.

02:23:24.660 Take a look at this floodlight and had deadlines in it and had 4 million and then 6 million

02:23:29.520 and then talked about 12 hours of the Tucson area.

02:23:32.000 Like that's, they've received a very detailed ransom note and then a follow-up that may or may not have said, we didn't know how sick she was and she's with God.

02:23:40.360 We don't have, that's unconfirmed.

02:23:42.180 But here's what the family said, having had all that and knowing this is Saturday night, that the last deadline, they've missed the first deadline, which was Thursday for $4 million.

02:23:50.340 The last deadline is coming of Monday for $6 million.

02:23:53.940 Here's top 44.

02:23:56.760 We received your message and we understand.

02:23:59.620 we beg you now to return our mother to us so that we can celebrate with her

02:24:07.040 this is the only way we will have peace this is very valuable to us and we will pay

02:24:15.180 but still they didn't james they still didn't pay even if you believe in that message they

02:24:23.580 they now believe she's dead maybe nerdy's right maybe the second note did say the

02:24:27.900 the terrible things. But she's saying there, we will pay. And that she actually didn't even ask

02:24:34.480 for proof of anything there. To me, it's very confusing unless the FBI was telling her,

02:24:40.440 don't pay one dime until we get a hair or a picture or something to prove this is not a scammer.

02:24:49.840 Yeah. I certainly believe there were FBI and law enforcement off camera who were assisting with

02:24:56.900 that video. And certainly they're not going to throw, you know, good money away if there's no

02:25:02.520 chance that this is legitimate. But here again, a great question. Sheriff Nanos, FBI, district

02:25:09.820 attorney, what happened? Why didn't they pay? Did they want to pay? Please tell us what is going on.

02:25:16.480 Again, nothing. Why didn't Hoda ask that? Well, you nailed all that yesterday with regards to,

02:25:23.560 what that was, whether it was a journalistic deep dive interview or it was two friends on a couch,

02:25:28.760 right? Or something that they're trying to paint as two friends on a couch. I mean,

02:25:34.820 I thought it was very telling that Carson Daly admitted in the round table afterward that none

02:25:38.960 of them had been in touch with Savannah throughout this entire ordeal. And yet Hoda is there like

02:25:43.580 crying, fake crying. I'm sorry, but she was fake crying. She kept wiping away tears that weren't

02:25:47.940 there. Look at it. I watched it on my computer where my big screen is like 12 inches from me.

02:25:52.860 there were no tears in her eyes there were no tears coming down her face savannah was crying 0.52

02:25:57.000 they were real tears yes she kept wiping away tears that weren't there hoda kept sniffling

02:26:02.080 she was like she she's she she kept interjecting with her yes yes it's like just stop i know it

02:26:08.000 sounded like a little that's what you're here for yeah like her constant yes yes in the background 0.85

02:26:14.220 it was distracting it was off-putting it was distracting and she didn't do her job which is

02:26:21.680 the very basic, why did you believe that that actually was from the kidnapper? Why did you

02:26:30.540 believe that? And then the obvious follow-up, if you believed it was real, why didn't you pay?

02:26:38.360 She could say, I'm not going to answer that. That's fine. We get that all the time.

02:26:42.340 I've had a nickel for every time I've had to ask an uncomfortable question of somebody,

02:26:45.860 including people I know and like, but I have to do it because it's my journalistic duty.

02:26:50.720 I've had many people come on the show saying, I'll come on, but I'm not going to be able to answer the following things.

02:26:54.600 And I'll say, you do whatever you're going to have to do.

02:26:56.520 I'm going to have to do what I'm going to have to do.

02:26:58.700 And it's your duty.

02:27:01.140 Truly, this is not a small deal.

02:27:02.380 You know it's your duty as a journalist.

02:27:04.240 This was the biggest interview in the country this week.

02:27:06.900 And she completely fell down on the job. 0.98

02:27:09.100 Why didn't you pay then?

02:27:10.660 And to your point earlier, Maureen, what do you mean the door was propped open?

02:27:14.760 The back door was propped open?

02:27:16.480 With what?

02:27:16.980 With what?

02:27:17.760 Yeah.

02:27:19.700 Very simple.

02:27:20.720 Would that have been so if you're going to tell us it was propped open, why wouldn't you say with what?

02:27:24.920 Unless they wanted her to keep that secret.

02:27:26.980 But I agree with you.

02:27:30.500 I just the other thing with the payment situation, when they said you can go to any you can go to any post office, let us know which one and we'll have the cash there ready for you.

02:27:44.320 And, you know, the interviews after that with with me, I think it was with you where Fitz and I were both like, yeah, that's a great idea.

02:27:53.560 But we're both thinking exactly what the perpetrators are thinking like that's unsurvivable.

02:27:58.000 There's no way I'm going to walk into a United States post office, get a giant duffel bag of millions of dollars and then walk out and not get caught.

02:28:06.620 So I think they're just at the point where they need to, these perpetrators need to cut their losses because Nancy's gone.

02:28:14.860 And I actually think that, I actually believe that Savannah knows her mom's gone.

02:28:19.620 I don't see any hope left for her to be alive, but I do think they have hope that they'll be able to bring her home and have a celebration of life.

02:28:29.200 so I just think the the bad guys are just like we're never gonna I think they're getting more

02:28:36.120 comfortable right now by the way because when Savannah said if they've been asked acting

02:28:39.900 strange for the last eight weeks sure but they got away with it for eight weeks now and to Jim's

02:28:46.380 point of you know how many days it's been so far they're starting to get comfortable again whoever

02:28:51.620 this person or these people are they're starting to get comfortable again because they they're

02:28:57.960 still walking around. I mean, there's still a million dollar reward out there for information

02:29:03.120 leading to the identification of the perpetrator or the finding of Nancy. It's still possible

02:29:08.280 someone could say, I want that million dollars. It's possible the family could raise the reward

02:29:13.400 still. And I mean, I guess it's possible that somebody who hasn't seen that guy's picture

02:29:21.840 will now. We talked about how the billboards were insufficient that they're putting up all

02:29:25.940 around the Southwest because they only showed Nancy. They don't show the picture of that guy.

02:29:30.100 Well, guess what? They, after our discussion, they actually changed the billboards. It was

02:29:33.740 amazing. Jennifer Coffender noted that on her X feed. So they, they did change the billboards

02:29:39.140 and now his picture's on them. So it's possible, you know, this guy, you're married to this guy,

02:29:43.520 you employ this guy and you don't know, you know, a lot of people don't even follow the news. You

02:29:48.960 know, they, they just live their lives. Those are the happy people. And they don't, they haven't

02:29:55.360 seen this picture a million times like we all have. And they see this picture, like there's

02:29:58.540 still some hope. I didn't want to show one thing Savannah said. We have 90 seconds left. Do I have

02:30:05.560 time? Let's play Sat 23 quickly. But faith is how I will stay connected to my mom.

02:30:15.120 God is how I'm holding hands with my mom

02:30:20.060 and I won't let sadness

02:30:24.040 win for her.

02:30:28.160 She taught me.

02:30:31.400 I saw her grieve.

02:30:34.000 I saw her world shatter.

02:30:37.120 I saw it

02:30:38.240 and I saw her get up 0.99

02:30:41.160 and I saw her believe.

02:30:45.120 And I saw her love, and I saw her hope, and I saw her smile, and I saw her laugh.

02:30:52.560 I saw her joy.

02:30:55.140 I saw her love of the world and adventure.

02:30:58.440 I saw her belief.

02:31:00.220 I saw her faith.

02:31:03.760 She taught me.

02:31:06.640 She taught all of us.

02:31:09.600 How to handle this.

02:31:11.680 A final gift from mother to daughter is awful.

02:31:15.840 That's why we stay on this.

02:31:17.400 That's why you guys come on and we'll continue to until we have answers.

02:31:20.600 Thank you, James.

02:31:21.400 Thanks, Maureen.

02:31:22.040 Thank you, Megan.

02:31:22.440 Thanks to all of you for listening.

02:31:23.620 We're back on Monday.

02:31:24.860 We'll see you then.

02:31:26.160 Thanks for listening to The Megan Kelly Show.

02:31:28.040 No BS, no agenda, and no fear.

The Megyn Kelly Show - March 27, 2026

CNN Identity Crisis, and How Boys Become Men, with Jesse Kelly, and New Nancy Guthrie Timeline Questions, with James Hamilton and Maureen O'Connell ｜ Ep. 1283

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