CNN Identity Crisis, and How Boys Become Men, with Jesse Kelly, and New Nancy Guthrie Timeline Questions, with James Hamilton and Maureen O'Connell ｜ Ep. 1283
00:03:50.460And all I can think of is Vance in the White House in the Oval with Zelensky and sort of how he put Zelensky in his place.
00:03:58.720It sounds like he just did that to Bibi Netanyahu.
00:04:01.460The vice president allegedly pressed Netanyahu on his many rosy predictions to our president about how this war would play out.
00:04:12.300Specifically, Vance calling Netanyahu out on the fact that there seems to be no chance that a popular uprising will topple the regime as the prime minister of Israel promised our president.
00:04:26.740So Netanyahu looking at him saying, what happened to your rosy predictions about how the people were going to rise up in the street and see this regime change thing through to the end?
00:04:36.620Axios quoting an unnamed U.S. source, quote, before the war, Bibi really sold it to the president as being easy, as regime change being a lot likelier than it was.
00:04:47.340And the VP was clear eyed about some of those statements.
00:05:05.720And those people should be held to account.
00:05:08.820As this thing goes south, we need to know exactly who talked him into it and what representations were made to convince the president that this was a good idea.
00:05:19.780The names we know are Bibi Netanyahu, first and foremost, Lindsey Graham, equally to blame.
00:05:28.000We know from The Wall Street Journal report that Mark Thiessen of Fox News and General Jack Keene were major advocates of the war.
00:05:35.280OK, like those guys, but they were they appear to have been very wrong that this was a good idea and we could keep going.
00:05:45.440Mark Levin, chief among them, he says now, oh, I wasn't me every night, every night on Fox News out there urging the president to do this.
00:05:55.440And then he had a meeting with him in June where we know he denies it now.
00:05:59.840We know he pushed him for this. Ben Shapiro was out on his show every day pushing this war like there were very prominent activists on the right who were practically frothing at the mouth for this thing.
00:06:14.780And now that it's not only going poorly, but the president's poll numbers are in a precipitous freefall.
00:06:21.840We'd love to see some accountability. Who who promised him what?
00:06:27.020And this is a great start, having the vice president speak directly to Bibi Netanyahu and say, you promised regime change was going to be easy.
00:06:38.140You promised the Iranians were going to rise up in the streets and see it through.
00:06:44.840And the United States is suffering as a result.
00:06:47.440And the report is that the response by the Israelis to our vice president doing that was to have a hit piece planted on J.D. Vance in an Israeli newspaper that is owned by American, but Israel first mega donor, Miriam Adelson.
00:07:08.200So the response is to start drip, drip, drip, planning negative hit pieces on J.D. Vance.
00:07:13.800Good luck. Good luck with that. Okay. Good luck. We'll see how that works out for you.
00:07:18.520Now, related to that, we have to tell you about a story that has not gotten much attention,
00:07:22.020but has massive implications about war and peace and what exactly we are fighting for in the Middle
00:07:27.220East. All right. No one's talking about this. We're going to walk you through it. Last Thursday,
00:07:31.840March 19th, Prime Minister Netanyahu held a press conference. NBC's Richard Engel,
00:07:38.420the network's longtime chief foreign correspondent, he knows his stuff, got to ask a question.
00:07:44.660Now, this is the official Israeli government press office's feed of that press conference.
00:07:53.200Listen to what went down. You're going to think something happened with your audio
00:07:57.680feed from the meghan kelly show that's not that's not what's happened at all this is straight from
00:08:03.880the source and how it aired through this israeli government press office feed watch
00:08:09.700next question from richard engel from nbc news good to see you again
00:16:03.160On the flip side, Israel views this, and they're probably very correct about this, as their last and best shot at getting rid of Iran, which has plagued them permanently.
00:16:16.340They don't view this as an option to end it.
00:16:19.780They don't want to end it because they don't think they're ever going to get another shot.
00:16:23.040And they're probably right about that for a variety of reasons, which we can get into.
00:16:25.980They're probably never going to get another shot like this with American Big Brother dropping tomahawks on Iran every single day.
00:16:32.040so we are allied up to a point but if you know if if i'm if if you're my neighbor megan you live
00:16:38.700right next door and the neighbor across the street keeps letting his dog poop in our yard
00:16:42.740and we join together and we say what we're going to do is we're going to get our dogs to go poop
00:16:46.420in his yard yeah we'll be allies and then you say well yeah then we'll burn his house down with his
00:16:50.980family in it wait whoa whoa whoa we were well we were allies to a point now you're taking it too
00:16:57.300far. The different end goals is what we're dealing with here. Yes. Well, well put. This is so I'm
00:17:06.960against this war, as the audience knows, but I'm I'm against it for many reasons. Practically
00:17:13.700speaking, the political fallout from the war is front and center in terms of long term problems
00:17:23.160for America, because we cannot have, as you call them, the communists return to power.
00:17:29.480And that's exactly what's about to happen. The polling for the president on the Iran war
00:17:35.020is horrific. It is horrific by any measure. He keeps looking at the limited polling that people
00:17:42.700who call themselves MAGA overwhelmingly approve of the war. That is no more than 30 percent of
00:17:48.780the population. It's no more than 30 percent of the population. So he may have 92 percent of those
00:17:54.040people, but it's no more than 30 percent of the population. We have 70 plus percent outside who
00:18:00.300are not MAGA, who are very against this war. And they vote that you cannot win an election with
00:18:06.320just the people describing themselves as MAGA, especially when Trump is not going to be on the
00:18:10.160ballot in 2028. He's not going to be on the ballot in the midterms. So the MAGA faithful,
00:18:14.100that what motivates them? Donald Trump. He's not going to be in either of these ballots.
00:18:19.020So and we've seen before that he doesn't necessarily have the coattails for for other
00:18:23.620people who say they're like in his mold to get them over the line. You need Republican Party
00:18:28.440support and independence to win elections. And that is still a golden rule. So listen to Harry
00:18:33.920Enten describing President Trump and the approval on the Iran war sought for when there was this
00:18:40.140slew of initial polls that came out. The Fox News poll was the one initial poll that did not show
00:18:45.900that the war was unpopular. That has changed. Trump has lost his one good poll when it comes
00:18:50.480to the Iran war, because just take a look here. Net approval rating of U.S. military action in
00:18:54.700Iran. In early March, it broke even, right? Zero points. What that essentially means is 50 percent
00:18:59.680approved, 50 percent disapproved. But down it goes. Look at this now. The net approval rating
00:19:05.080for the U.S. military action in Iran, negative 16 points, just 42% of the American public approve
00:19:11.140of it, 58% disapprove. So now we're looking at basically every single poll in which the clear
00:19:18.800plurality or majority of Americans disapprove of the U.S. military action in Iran. Trump can no
00:19:24.560longer point to a poll that actually shows that among the general public at large, that the
00:19:29.260American public actually approve of this military action. But look at Trump's handling of it. It's
00:19:34.040even worse oh my okay trump's net approval rating of iran look at this overall 28 points underwater
00:19:41.620very very unpopular donald trump's actions are when it comes to iran and look at those in the
00:19:47.300center of the electorate look at independence negative 58 points 58 points underwater
00:19:54.860i mean all right so go ahead there's a couple ugly addendums i'll add to this and i'm sorry
00:20:03.020It is ugly. It is what it is. First of all, we have to understand, anybody with two eyes and two ears can see just from what Harry just laid out for us.
00:20:12.860This never goes up. Those numbers don't change direction. Every single day now, they get worse.
00:20:18.380There is nothing in the world that could happen that will reverse those numbers.
00:20:22.540So every day, tomorrow, we will wake up, they'll be worse than they are today.
00:20:26.360That's the trajectory of it. That's one thing that's really, really ugly.
00:20:30.260Another part of it that's really ugly, and this may be the ugliest part, as I have explained on my show over and over and over again, whatever you feel about this war, it has always been easy to start a war.
00:20:44.300If I decide I want to have an argument with my wife, she says hi, by the way, Megan, she loves you.
00:20:49.160If I decide I want to go home tonight after work and have an argument with my wife, I can most definitely do that.
00:24:10.240But this is not something you can just double and triple and quadruple down on and have the problem get better.
00:24:16.900Because Trump, as his frustration grows and he tries to guilt our allies into helping us, and they're not, seems to be saying, all right, fine, we'll do it, you effers.
00:24:26.260And he's sending 5,000 to 7,000 troops are already there, Jesse.
00:24:30.280It's 5,000 to 7,000 who arrived today.
00:24:33.840And now the Wall Street Journal reporting last night that we've he's considering sending more than more than a minimum of 10,000 more.
00:24:44.380So now we're talking about 17,000 American ground troops minimum that we may have over there.
00:24:52.060And let me give you another statistic from the polling.
00:25:25.400Everything he built, the entire coalition we were all part of will be ruined.
00:25:30.880Well, I mean, you laid it out. Let's just put it in very simple terms, Megan. The American right, Donald Trump, the Trump administration, they have to decide whether this war in Iran is worth the communists conquering every single branch of government again in the United States of America, because that is the stakes of the game.
00:25:51.540I think it would be worthy to remember what it was like four years under Joe Biden, 20 million foreign barbarians brought in.
00:26:00.620They created an app on your phone so foreigners can invade the United States of America.
00:26:04.840The White House lit up in rainbow colors, on and on and on.
00:26:08.180Down the list we go, federal government packed full of transsexuals, all the nightmare that was there.
00:26:17.860We are going to have to decide whether the war in Iran is worth that again, because that very likely is the stakes of the game.
00:26:25.620I will, again, remind everybody that presidencies are won with coalitions, not with the hardcores.
00:26:31.500As much as we hardcore Trump voters, I'm a three-time Trump voter myself, as much as we love to believe that we are everything, Trump has 94% approval with the MAGA.
00:28:05.140We have to wake up and smell the roses. People cannot find a job. Their son, their daughter just graduated college. They moved in back home. Manufacturing has not come back. Prices have not come down. Not that I'm blaming all this on Donald Trump, by the way. But when these are the conditions in the United States of America, you cannot be you cannot be seen to be focusing everywhere else.
00:28:25.760If the neighbor's yard has weeds all through it, I may care a lot if things are fine in my house.
00:28:31.540But if my air conditioner just went on the fritz, I have a leak in the ceiling.
00:28:34.920My fence fell down from a storm last night.
00:28:37.080I don't give a crap about how many weeds the neighbor has.
00:33:15.240Megan, people always point out Vietnam and the Viet Cong and things like that,
00:33:20.760and Americans got tired. But here's the reality of it. And I've read this in a million books.
00:33:28.320I've been told this personally by veterans. It is a fact, and it is a fact that nobody likes.
00:33:32.760certainly dudes don't like this. There is a political aspect to every war, not just a
00:33:38.180military aspect. I'll give you a little example. Rhodesia was once this heavenly country in the
00:33:44.500middle of Africa, most prosperous country in Africa, really settled by England and run by
00:33:49.460these well-to-do great families. This is paradise right in the middle of Africa. And they eventually
00:33:54.480got assaulted by communist savages on all sides, of course, backed by Jimmy Carter and other
00:33:59.020scumbags. We won't go into the whole details of it. But the Rhodesians were excellent fighters,
00:34:03.100incredible fighters. And they pulled off this amazing mission where they went undercover
00:34:06.520across the border into an enemy base. They drove basically enemy trucks into the enemy base,
00:34:12.560drove up, all the enemy soldiers surrounded them on the parade ground. And then they opened up with
00:34:17.980heavy machine guns and just butchered all of them, turned around and took off and didn't lose a man.
00:34:22.540It's one of the most amazing, daring, brilliant military actions I have ever heard of or read
00:34:28.340about in my entire life. And to this day, you can talk to men who fought in the Rhodesian War who
00:34:33.180will tell you that helped them lose the entire war because the images of dead enemy soldiers
00:34:38.760slaughtered on the parade ground caused such an international incident that Rhodesia's last ally
00:34:44.560in that war, the last ally they had left, that was South Africa, decided to cut ties with Rhodesia,
00:34:49.800which cut the country off completely, which ended up having it fall to the communists. And now it's
00:34:54.540Zimbabwe, one of the poorest, biggest dumps on the face of the planet. There is a political
00:34:59.160and a military aspect to every single war. In Iwo Jima, like I mentioned, we talk about Vietnam,
00:35:07.640FDR. These people, the presidential administration at the time were mortified
00:35:12.760that we had over 6,000 Marines die. This is at a time when Americans were uniquely invested in this
00:35:18.260war because Americans were tired of it. This isn't an American thing. This is every country ever
00:35:24.240has a limited amount, a very finite amount of caring for any war, and then they want it to
00:35:31.600stop. The truth is, Americans, as you pointed out, do not feel emotionally invested in this.
00:35:37.840They simply do not. I know the Trump administration tried. I know many different people are trying,
00:35:42.140but nukes. Okay, that may be true. I have no reason to call Donald Trump or Rubio or anyone
00:35:46.260else a liar. They may have been 15 minutes away from a nuke that did not sell with the American
00:35:52.140people. The poll numbers bear that out. Politically, this is absolute suicide. So again, we can argue
00:35:59.300all day long. The choice is very, very simple. Is the Iran war worth handing the United States
00:36:04.820of America's government back over to the gay race communists? Because that is the choice we are
00:36:08.980currently making. And it's it's happening. I mean, there have been, I think, 15 special elections for
00:36:16.500these state house races that have been happening over the past year. And the Republicans have not
00:36:24.440won any of them. They've all gone blue in jurisdictions that were heavily red, that had
00:36:31.120gone for Donald Trump by some, what, 19 points in the latest one down in Florida or between 11 and
00:36:36.38019. I can't remember the specific number in Florida, but I saw the list and there were many
00:36:40.340that had gone 19 Republican that have now swung blue. This is a terrible harbinger for things to
00:36:45.900come in these midterms. There are serious political pundits now predicting the Republicans
00:36:51.360genuinely may lose the Senate in addition to the House. Yeah. And now and what does that do
00:36:57.480in terms of the Republican positioning on the Senate in 28 when they they have more seats that
00:37:03.680we weren't supposed to lose the Senate Republicans in this midterm election? That was not supposed
00:37:09.180to happen at all. But now they're seriously talking about it like it might. And but then
00:37:13.720the next election in 28, where there's a presidential race on the line as well,
00:37:17.840the Republicans are more exposed. So, I mean, now you're, now we're on route to a, what, a 60,
00:37:24.220a 60 seat Democrat majority. Do you know what that is? That's a fucking nightmare because the
00:37:29.800Democrats could actually win the White House too with these approval numbers. President Trump's
00:37:33.380approval numbers are in the basement. They're the lowest that they have been. And it's, it is the
00:37:40.240economy, first and foremost, that's dragging him down. And now the Iran war. And by the way,
00:37:44.960he's lost Hispanics too. He's the entire coalition that put him over the top is falling apart. As
00:37:52.900as you point out that Joe Rogan's come out against the war, Dave Smith is hardcore against Trump
00:37:58.640right now and has been for a while, a comic who's brilliant. Theo Vaughn came out against it. He
00:38:05.560He lost comedian Andrew Schultz on whose podcast he made a lot of friends a while ago.
00:38:11.100Sean Ryan has same against it now very strongly.
00:38:14.180This is a coalition that the young men of America very much listen to.
00:38:19.040And young people are completely against this war.
00:38:22.520Even in the Republican Party, the latest poll that just came out from Pew showed the net approval among Republicans.
00:38:28.60018 to 29 year old Republicans are against the war by a margin of minus two.
00:38:34.020So net net they're against. It's not by a huge margin, but they are against as young Republicans. The next set up 30 to 49 year olds, they're there for it, but only by 20 point margin. And then when you get to the older people, 50 and up, it goes up. So it's older Republicans who support this war. And it's only older Republicans who support the war only that the independents are overwhelmingly against it. As you heard Harry Enten talk about Democrats are united against it because for their own reasons. And look at the numbers for Hispanics.
00:39:02.900Let me just show you, because that's another part of the Trump coalition, right?
00:39:05.200You had the young people, you had a greater number of black voters, you had men.
00:39:10.300Harry Anton did a thing the other day showing men are against this, young men in particular, completely against this war.
00:40:10.760How concerned are you about gas prices? Not concerned 20. Concerned 80 percent.
00:40:17.880And then there's Mark Levin. Here's a poll question no media outlet asks.
00:40:21.380Would you prefer that the Iranian regime launches nuclear missiles at our country or paying 50 cents more a gallon for gasoline?
00:40:29.840Jesse, if they go with that Mark Levin approach between now and November and thereafter, then they deserve the giant effing they're going to get.
00:40:39.380You know, Megan, I go back and forth on this because you laid out all the numbers and the numbers, they are what they are.
00:40:46.760I have these moments where I say to myself, you know what?
00:40:50.360If we get wiped out in November because of this, we've freaking earned it.
00:40:54.080You know, when Donald Trump gets impeached every other week, he signed up for it.
00:40:59.180But then I remember that there's a lot more at stake than me and my anger and petty grievances and things like that.
00:41:29.040Part of the reason people are so unhappy economically, just so everyone completely understands this, is pre-COVID, people were richer, that we hadn't had this rampant inflation.
00:41:39.940Pre-COVID, people remembered what it was like.
00:41:42.520people remember today what it was like to be able to afford to take your family out to applebee's on
00:41:47.900a friday night they remembered what it was like to be able to go to the beach once a year on
00:41:51.720vacation fancy or not they remembered what it was like when life was better because it was so recent
00:41:58.320americans are poorer and they remember when they were richer and when you were richer five years
00:42:05.180ago before we shut down an economy for a bad chest cold and printed seven trillion dollars
00:42:10.840when you remember what it was like to be richer and now you're poorer, you don't want to hear
00:42:17.740about Iran and nuclear weapons. You don't give a crap. You don't care about Russia and Ukraine.
00:42:22.980This is why it fell so flat when Joe Biden tried to sell it all the time with his buddy Mitch
00:42:27.500McConnell. The most important thing in the world is Ukraine right now. You know why that never
00:42:31.940landed? They kept selling it. Every single press conference and leading up to the election of
00:42:36.500Kamala Harris versus Donald Trump, Ukraine was somewhere below genital warts on the popularity
00:42:42.000of things. Why was that the case? Why was it the case? Because you don't care about anything. It's
00:42:47.660not the righteousness of the cause. It's not that it's good or bad. When things are bad at home and
00:42:53.000you remember Applebee's and you haven't been there in three months because you're on your second
00:42:57.280shift and your wife had to go back to work, you don't want to hear about foreign affairs. And I'll
00:43:02.340tell you what, if the GOP plan is to run ads in the midterms telling people, well, two weeks away
00:43:07.960from a nuclear weapon, oh my gosh, we are going to be annihilated. But you know what will be
00:43:12.380comforting? After we lose 60 seats in the House of Representatives, the next morning we can all
00:43:17.040wake up and say, but 94% of Malcolm was with us. That'll take us far. Yeah. And also, you know,
00:43:23.02050% more in gas. I mean, really, who am I to complain? I sacrificed for my country. Honestly,
00:43:30.200like the nerve of this guy. Mark Levin has been making millions of dollars off of his radio show
00:43:33.960and his Fox News gig for years now. This is a true let them eat cake type moment. By the way,
00:43:38.980it's not 50 cents. It's not. It's a dollar more per gas. And it's more than that for diesel.
00:43:44.700And it's only going in one direction. You know, we reported this morning on our morning update show
00:43:49.520that the Trump administration is reportedly game planning what happens in the U.S. economy if
00:43:55.420the price per barrel of oil goes above $200, 200. The administration denies that, okay, but
00:44:04.300it's a reliable report. $200, like if it goes, and you're already having very smart oil and gas
00:44:11.280analysts say, there's only one direction that this is going. And it's, we haven't felt the
00:44:16.680full effect of what's happening in the oil market and the energy market yet. We're only feeling the
00:44:22.320initial tremors that the full pain will come just in time for summer vacations and the trip you
00:44:29.040were going to take with your family cross country in the station wagon to the Grand Canyon. Gas
00:44:35.340prices, trust me, as a newswoman, every year I've been doing this 24 years now, gas prices in the
00:44:41.440summer are always, always a news item. They always seem to go up. People always feel the pain then
00:44:46.980they start looking at the gas prices more than ever. They're driving more than ever. And if this
00:44:50.800thing is actually going to hit most over the course of the summer, this energy crisis that
00:44:54.940we've created two months before they actually vote for the midterms. Jesse, I don't know where
00:45:00.120this could go. So Trump, he is brilliant. Trump is a political genius. That's that hasn't changed.
00:45:08.060He's been dazzled, I think, by some smooth talkers into believing this thing could have been quick
00:45:13.260and just like Venezuela. And he could sort of feel like Captain America. And that's not what's
00:45:18.120happening. So now he's offloading the get us out of this thing to J.D. Vance. That's yay. That's
00:45:23.440good. Thumbs up on that. And I think what what needs to happen right now while J.D. does his
00:45:29.920job is no one should be able to talk Trump into fucking 17000 ground troops like that can't have
00:45:37.9205000 can't happen. We should not shed another drop of American blood on the oil fields of Iran
00:45:45.600because all these numbers get worse as soon as we do.
00:45:49.480And by the way, he's already, you know, as we point out, he's losing men.
00:46:14.340and here's part of the problem is the media, right? Because if you are a Republican who still
00:46:20.320watches television news, all you watch is Fox, Jesse. That's all you watch. And you will not
00:46:26.100find a dissenting voice on Fox news. Can we get the Will Cain side over here? I love Will Cain.
00:46:31.360You know, the one we never ran with General Keene. I love Will Cain and he's an honest broker,
00:46:36.180but he's the only one who's like, tried to like ask a couple of skeptical questions. Like,
00:46:42.900this isn't great. Everybody else is cheerleading the war. So Republican voters who are older
00:46:50.100voters, but they are the ones who actually go to the polls, all think it's going swimmingly.
00:46:55.100That's what they believe, because that's what they're being told every night by Sean Hannity.
00:46:59.140I mean, his show is full propaganda with Lindsey Graham every night, Tom Cotton,
00:47:03.720you know, all these big cheerleaders for the war. And then you've got like, let me know when we have
00:47:09.040Like the one time one guy tried to ask a dissenting question, he got his hand slapped by General Jack Keene, who I also really I love General Keene, but he's, you know, show the hammer, the nail.
00:47:22.200What is it? To a hammer, everything's a nail. Of course, he's in favor of this action.
00:47:27.140And to me, it's just evidence of the media problem we're having.
00:47:31.000When you look at the Republican numbers, we have the side. Here it is. Watch what happened.
00:47:34.100You know, I think the objectives are pretty clear.
00:47:37.100Hanksworth, just secretary, just laid it out. The president has laid it out and the secretary of
00:47:42.140state has laid it out. The objective is to prevent this regime from having the capability to continue
00:47:48.420to attack us. And we don't retaliate. This president is not going to let this happen again.
00:47:55.680So that is the mission here. It's pretty clear. Well, it's not 100 percent clear to me, General.
00:48:01.560And that's not to suggest that I don't support 100% what is happening, nor that I 100% offer my support.
00:48:08.500I just think I want to ask a couple of critical questions.
00:48:10.500And I hope you know how much respect I have for your service.
00:48:12.880And I think it goes without saying to anybody watching how much respect I have for the men making this decision.
00:48:54.360I think he's actually one of the greatest things Fox has right now.
00:48:56.920But the fact that he felt so uncomfortable challenging General Keene on that question tells you everything you need to know about the dynamic inside Fox.
00:49:22.120And Jack Keene, it was kind of fun because he's like, spit it out, son.
00:49:26.100You know, this grizzled general doesn't like something. Right. I appreciate the dynamic there. But to me, this is all hashtag part of the problem for that record. This happened the first day of the war that Monday after the bombing. Your thoughts.
00:49:37.400my thoughts are that it's a little bit concerning that the american people have such a difficult
00:49:43.480time now finding just actual news sources that can deliver them all sides of everything because
00:49:51.720you're 100 right about how the coverage has been if it's if all that person is hearing every single
00:49:57.260show every single day all day long about how everything's perfect everything's perfect everything's
00:50:01.900perfect. Well, okay. What happens if April 6th comes and God forbid, I'm going to bank on Trump's
00:50:08.800deal-making ability. What happens if April 6th comes and Iran doesn't make a deal? Because let's
00:50:15.040talk about something, Megan, something we touched on a little earlier, but there's another part to
00:50:19.060this. We talked about how two allies, or at least I did, I don't want to put words in your mouth,
00:50:23.160two allies can share a common enemy, but not necessarily the same end goal. Okay, we got that.
00:50:27.800Israel wants complete annihilation of Iran. Understandably, that's not good for us. We got
00:50:32.000that. What if Iran doesn't want us to leave now either? They've already lost the Ayatollah. They've
00:50:36.680already lost all their leadership. They're wounding deeply the man they had tried to kill,
00:50:41.140by the way. They did try to assassinate Donald Trump. Now they're wounding him politically,
00:50:45.040which they couldn't do physically. They've already lost the Ayatollah. What if Iran doesn't want to
00:50:50.120make a deal? So now there's a United States, Israel, and Iran, and two-thirds of the coalition
00:50:54.760doesn't want to make a deal? What are those people watching Fox every night hearing how great things
00:50:59.820are going to go? What's going to happen if April 6th comes and we're stuck there? As I mentioned
00:51:05.300earlier, off-ramps can be hard to find. All right, Jesse stays with us. We will be right back and
00:51:11.660we've got plenty of other news to discuss, including the implosion of CBS News. That's next.
00:51:17.820Relief Factor loves hearing from pain-free customers and hopes they can help you next.
00:51:23.260One user of Relief Factor named Kim wrote to them to say, quote,
00:51:26.500Before trying Relief Factor, I struggled just to make it through my work days.
00:51:30.240I would collapse on the couch at night, aching everywhere.
00:51:33.220Within a few weeks of starting Relief Factor, the daily pain began to fade.
00:51:37.180Now I'm keeping up at work, and I still have energy left for my family.
00:51:40.740There are many stories like Kim's of parents having more love to give,
00:51:44.980but no strength to do it, things like that.
00:59:15.900If you're trying to be something you're not, Anderson Cooper with his unbuttoned shirt, if you're trying to be something you're not, that's going to lose you way more people than you would have gained otherwise.
00:59:26.320Otherwise, authenticity is the only thing you have to sell now if you want to do what we do for a living.
00:59:31.780And unfortunately for a lot of those characters over there, the authentic them is even worse than the fake them.
00:59:37.660So it's actually not going to work for them.
00:59:47.400I have some free, a pro tip, if you will.
00:59:49.800The problem in getting ratings for you, CNN, is not that your technical director cannot be heard over the airwaves telling this guest to move in front of that screen during the A to B block.
01:00:03.900The problem is not that the anchors are literally too buttoned up or broadcasting from the sets that you've built them instead of from their offices.
01:05:41.240She's fractured the trust amongst herself and the executive or the producing executives, the talent and so on.
01:05:47.520And you tell me whether this is a ship that can or should be raised from the bottom of the ocean.
01:05:54.100You know, Megan, I'm not changing the subject.
01:05:56.860I swear I'm going somewhere with this.
01:05:58.500But I actually had a conversation because we were just talking about CNN.
01:06:01.680I had a conversation with a friend one time inside of CNN.
01:06:06.020And he was talking about their identity crisis and similar to what we were just saying.
01:06:09.700And I, of course, told him, well, you can't filter every show and everything through the lens of, you know, the communist propaganda and America sucks and things like that.
01:06:19.660You you can't do that. You have to give some sort of an alternate perspective.
01:06:24.600Otherwise, you're going to narrow yourself down to only so many people.
01:06:28.120And he didn't argue with me. But what he said to me, Megan, was, yes, Jesse, I agree.
01:06:32.160But any time we've attempted to do that, what happens is the second we stray an inch away from the communist revolution propaganda that we do all the time, then we lose the viewers we have.
01:06:46.140Then you've lost the viewers you had because the audience has been baked in.
01:06:50.680If you are a regular CNN viewer, you expect to see the communist revolution all day, every day.
01:06:57.280and if there's ever any deviance from that, you will change the channel, you'll email in, you'll
01:07:02.040complain, you'll go find a different communist revolution channel. Now you're watching it happen
01:07:06.720at CBS, where the rumors were, I don't know, or that Barry, Barry, whatever her name is, that she
01:07:12.620was trying to make it at least somewhat more middle of the road. Well, CBS had been spewing
01:07:18.560commie propaganda for so long, they had tempered their audience down to being communist revolution
01:07:25.760types and they don't want to see middle of the road they don't want to see any kind of an alternate
01:07:30.740perspective if you're straying an inch from that the viewers you used to have they're going to
01:07:36.240leave and they'll go find different commie propaganda it really look they made all these
01:07:40.960channels made their own bed and i don't feel an ounce of sympathy for any of them screw them all
01:07:44.780i ate them but they made the bed and now they're sleeping in it if your anchor of choice your news
01:07:51.400of choice is scott pelly gail king uh margaret brennan and you know the cbs evening news whoever
01:08:00.420was in there nora o'donnell etc you do not want fair and balanced news and by the way barry doesn't
01:08:06.340like trump i mean she's not a trump supporter she's not a republican she's just not woke she's
01:08:11.580not a woke person so she's trying i think on the order of the ellisons to be slightly more fair to
01:08:17.200Trump, although it's not working. That's not working either. Trust me, I've seen enough on
01:08:21.540CBS to know that that bias is not erasable. So their audience doesn't want that. None of those
01:08:29.660people wants to watch more fair and balanced news. And if you are a Republican, as I started
01:08:34.220this discussion with, you are not going to go watch CBS because here and there at the edges,
01:08:39.700they've been marginally more fair to Republicans. You're just going to stay with Fox. If you're
01:08:45.040like TV news. You're just going to stay with the one that actually understands you and doesn't hate
01:08:50.860Trump, by the way. So which is Fox. So it's it's not going to work. It's it was doomed to fail
01:08:56.280from the start. I had said when Barry took over that they were going to eat her alive from the
01:09:01.720inside. And that's what's happening. She doesn't have the support of the troops inside. She's not
01:09:05.340going to. This is not an experiment that's going to work out. Sorry, but that's just the way it is.
01:09:09.960And that's not to say anything of Topra Dokopoul, who's still crying in the anchor chair every other
01:09:15.000Jay trying to get get us to watch him because he's got a softer side. Unlike my friend, Jesse
01:09:19.900Kelly. Did I ever ask you about the crying? Did you and I ever talk about that? No, no.
01:09:25.220We I need to show you this clip. This is he tweeted this out. He tweeted this out, Jesse,
01:09:30.100to try to show us who he is as he took over the CBS Evening News. Watch.
01:09:35.680You said this is your favorite place in the world. Why? Why South Florida and Miami?
01:12:57.240instead of tony he's like let me show you my pain and i said to the audience when this first broke
01:13:02.100i was like he's telling the story and he's like crying crying crying uncontrollably i'm like what
01:13:07.200how is this story gonna end like what the hell happened to the family in miami like i thought
01:13:11.460for sure it was gonna end in they all died in a house fire it was horrific but i learned to fight
01:13:16.880again it was they moved they moved i would love to i miss my dad megan
01:13:27.140I lost him about a year and a half ago, and he was one of these rough, tough construction guys, and I miss him to death.
01:13:32.920And sometimes, I mean, I miss him for a variety of reasons, but sometimes whenever we would hang out and do something, I would take a video like that, and I'd say, hey, Dad, hey, Dad, I want you to look at this.
01:14:52.180This is why, at first he sits down at a pregame press conference on Thursday and explains why he is the way he is with his guys.
01:14:59.760What do you think it says about the culture that people see, you know, yelling or hard coaching and somehow think that's a problem?
01:15:05.400Yeah, I just think that's, you know, society.
01:15:07.140We've gotten soft in a lot of ways, I think, with, you know, we're trying to develop young people.
01:15:14.440I think young people, the teachers and coaches that impact their lives the most are not the teachers and coaches that, like, gave them a grade they didn't deserve.
01:15:22.760I mean, you remember the teachers and coaches that pushed you to your maximum, you know, that pushed you beyond your comfort level, that got the most out of you.
01:15:53.740And if you don't have a guy like Dan Hurley, whether it's a father, a father figure or a coach in your child's life, you wind up Topra Dokopul putting up videos of yourself crying so that people will take you seriously as an authority figure in the CBS Evening News chair.
01:16:10.000Yeah, that's how young men learn with pain and suffering. And people don't like to talk about that because it does make people uncomfortable. But that's how young men have always learned with pain and suffering. If you walk into Marine Corps boot camp, you will see a lot of pain and suffering. Pain and suffering is how young men grow up. It's how you learn from mistakes.
01:16:27.000when I told my son, I think he was 15 years old, that it was cold out and he better go grab a
01:16:32.120sweatshirt. And in his 15-year-old ways, he knew it all. And he said, no, dad, I'll be fine in my
01:16:37.040t-shirt and shorts. And I sat there for two hours while we were outside as he shivered and his teeth
01:16:41.900chattered and he was suffering. And I couldn't have given him my sweatshirt. I certainly could
01:16:45.380have. And instead, the entire time I told him how warm I was, man, it's nice to be in this sweatshirt.
01:16:50.200And you know what, Megan? Not one time since then has he forgotten to check the weather
01:16:54.440and dress appropriately because pain and suffering are how young men learn. And that makes people
01:17:00.600uncomfortable. Of course, I understand it makes people uncomfortable because you love them,
01:17:05.680right? You don't want to see people hurt, but that's how young men have always and will always
01:17:11.120learn. I cannot speak for young women. I'm not raising young women. I don't have a lot of
01:17:15.100interaction with young women, but I know young men who I do know quite well learn through pain
01:17:20.820and suffering and yelling and pushups and running stairs and being cold for a couple hours.
01:17:27.240That's how you wake up. And that's how you grow up and turn into a man who doesn't try
01:17:32.040on television because daddy was a drug dealer and moved you out of Miami.
01:17:36.280Yeah. Young women would not leave the coat at home. That's pretty much a daughter.
01:17:41.780She takes the coat. So like you have different problems with girls, but that's they're not in
01:17:46.340that lane. I can totally relate to what you said. When we went to Scandinavia, I got raincoats for
01:17:53.140all five of us. This is a couple of Junes ago because they say in one day in Sweden or Norway
01:17:59.720or Denmark, that's where we went, just in one day, you'll experience all four seasons. You'll
01:18:05.340freeze your ass off. You'll sweat. You'll be snowed on potentially. You'll be rained on. So
01:18:09.220I'm like, okay, everybody needs a raincoat. And so I went and I got everybody a raincoat.
01:18:13.460Um, now I put the raincoat in my young son's duffel bag that we were traveling with, who is
01:18:22.440then 10, nine or 10, 10, I think. And the older two, I just gave it to them and they packed it up.
01:18:28.220We get to Scandinavia, we got to Sweden. Sure enough, it's raining. It's pouring rain. I'm
01:18:32.600like, we're ready. You know, I'm feeling proud of myself as a parent. I'm like, everybody's got
01:18:36.260their raincoats. Let's go. And Thatcher, my youngest looks at me with like big eyes. Like,
01:18:41.440I'm like, what do you mean? I know you have your raincoat. I bought it for you. I put it in your
01:18:45.440duffel. He goes, I took it out. Why? Of course him packing, he has like four things. He had
01:18:54.140plenty of room for it. Like, why would he remove something I put in there? And he's like, I didn't
01:18:58.760think I'd need it. I'm like, what do you mean? You don't know anything about this, the weather
01:19:02.780in Sweden. What do you, he's like, I'm fine. I don't need a raincoat. Sure enough. I look at him.
01:29:52.820We showed you yesterday clips of Savannah Guthrie's first interview on NBC since her
01:29:57.600mother, Nancy, went missing nearly two months ago now. I'm like, gosh, that's crazy. Today is
01:30:03.480March 27th. Nancy was taken on January 31st. Well, overnight on the wee hours of February 1st. That
01:30:12.180is so crazy. Unfortunately, we have more questions than answers two months later. Like, why didn't
01:30:19.200the Guthrie family ever pay a ransom if they believed, as Savannah told us yesterday, that two
01:30:27.100of those ransom notes they received were authentic? Why wouldn't they have paid the money?
01:30:34.020And why did Savannah's military veteran brother immediately think that Nancy was kidnapped for
01:30:40.600ransom? Immediately, that's where his mind went. Was there something in the second note,
01:30:46.040this is another question, that made them believe it was fruitless to pay money to the kidnapper
01:30:53.080because they made video statements after each of these notes. And that last question,
01:31:00.560what was in the second note? And did it suggest something about Nancy that was dark and would
01:31:08.720have suggested the ransom was fruitless? And that's the question taking new significance
01:31:14.080this morning. Because one of the X counts that has followed this case the closest and that we
01:31:20.360have been following and that has steered us right more than once in its commentary and leads on the
01:31:26.080case is a user who goes by the name Nerdy Addict. And Nerdy, you may recall that because I've cited
01:31:33.720Nerdy Addict in talking with you guys before. Nerdy Addict writes today, quote, I now have two
01:31:40.280sources confirming that one of the letters sent to the media in the Nancy Guthrie case allegedly
01:31:46.660states that the sender apologized, claiming that they did not realize how serious Nancy's heart
01:31:54.300condition was and that she has, quote, gone to be with God. Right? So this is nerdy claiming that
01:32:00.960nerdy's been told by two sources that the second ransom note, you know, this person was demanding
01:32:06.600Bitcoin and wrote to Harvey plus two local stations, that the second note apologized saying
01:32:12.520they didn't realize how serious Nancy's heart condition was and that she has, quote, gone to be
01:32:17.000with God. Nerdy goes on to write, quote, according to these sources, investigators believe the message
01:32:22.760came from the same individuals who previously demanded Bitcoin, though this latest letter
01:32:28.380reportedly made no demands and was framed solely as an apology. While this has been validated to
01:32:36.620nerdy by two independent sources. It has not been publicly released or confirmed by the media. So
01:32:43.080nerdy is telling us, and we are telling you to take it with a grain of salt and put a big old
01:32:47.840asterisk at the end of it. With all due respect to nerdy, we don't know nerdy's agenda. We don't
01:32:53.320know nerdy's background. We don't know anything about nerdy other than the reporting that we've
01:32:57.940taken from this account with citation so far in this case has all proven to be very sound.
01:33:04.240So that's why we decided to bring it to you.
01:33:07.500Here to analyze this is James Hamilton.
01:33:10.020He's a former FBI supervisory special agent
01:33:12.560who created the FBI's Close Protection School,
01:33:15.820which is a specialized training program
01:33:17.240designed for agents to protect high-level individuals.
01:33:20.160And Maureen O'Connell, a 25-year veteran of the FBI
01:33:23.900and co-host of the Best Case, Worst Case podcast.
01:33:28.680Thank you guys so much for being back on.
01:33:30.460I wanna say, I wanna go through a little bit
01:33:33.080of the timeline here, just to refresh us all and the audience about that second ransom note,
01:33:41.440right? Nancy was taken on that Sunday, February 1st in the wee hours. That whole week we had
01:33:46.080ransom notes and we had family responses. And now it seems like ancient history because we're two
01:33:51.040months in, but the ransom note, my team has done the timeline for me. Okay. The first we heard of
01:33:59.480a ransom note was Tuesday, February 3rd. The first ransom note sent to TMZ and two local Tucson
01:34:05.640stations at 1.12 p.m. The letter demanded $4 million in Bitcoin by Thursday, February 5th,
01:34:13.040and then $6 million if the payment didn't come before Monday, February 9th. And then, you know,
01:34:20.780what was in that note? Well, we don't know. All we know is that they made a demand for ransom
01:34:26.620And they had revealed something about Nancy's clothing or something inside the house, allegedly about her watch and maybe a floodlight on the outside that convinced investigators that they should take this note seriously.
01:34:43.620And the family certainly took it seriously because that was the note in response to which we first saw the family come out.
01:34:50.780the three adult children holding hands, Savannah with the no makeup, very, very dark,
01:34:58.300you know, talk to her and you'll see saying the things about Nancy, you should get to know her.
01:35:03.820And in this day of video manipulation, we need to know that you do have her and, you know,
01:35:12.280that she's alive. So that was after the first one. Then on Thursday, February 5th,
01:35:20.780authorities confirm those two ransom deadlines.
01:41:51.740Only on the Megyn Kelly channel, Sirius XM 111, and on the Sirius XM app.
01:42:00.740There are a lot of different notes, I think, that came.
01:42:04.400And I think most of them, it's my understanding, are not real.
01:42:09.280And I didn't see them, but, um, you know, a person that would send a fake ransom note really has to look deeply at themselves to a family in pain.
01:42:26.880but I believe the two notes that we received that we responded to
01:42:36.860I tend to believe those are real all right so there she is back now with James Hamilton and
01:42:44.800Maureen O'Connell she believes that those ransom notes are real so what do we know about those
01:42:50.200notes we put together a montage of everything we could find Harvey Levin saying about them
01:42:55.360since he's seen them. And here that is. So we got something in our email that looks like a
01:43:04.460it's written like a ransom note for Savannah Guthrie's mother.
01:43:08.660Specific. And there are very certain amounts of money. Very specific. And also they say at the
01:43:14.040bottom there are certain things they're saying about what she was wearing and damage to the
01:43:18.780house. That they're clearly saying to verify. It's us. We know what we're talking about.
01:43:24.440They do mention an Apple watch, as the FBI said, and they do mention the floodlight, the damaged floodlight.
01:43:30.520There is something else. And it is the placement of the Apple watch, which has not come out.
01:43:37.060And if that placement is accurate, I'm sure that is something that puts this letter on the FBI's radar.
01:43:47.740There are deadlines. I say plural deadlines in this letter.
01:43:53.820and one is looming. The letter says that she will be returned within 12 hours back in the Tucson
01:44:01.940area. And then if you look at 12 hours, that's a radius of about 700 miles.
01:44:06.760That's how you calculated the map. Yeah, the map.
01:44:09.840I know. And when I say I know, I am positive that authorities, including the FBI,
01:44:18.040are vitally interested in that ransom note.
01:46:15.100Again, something very specific, like instead of saying nightgown, like if they gave a very specific, and again, I don't know because I haven't read the note, but if it was a very specific type of nightgown with maybe a tear or a stain, something that we would not know, but Savannah and the family would know, then that would lead me to believe, okay, we need to take this seriously and we need to respond.
01:46:39.180We need to have correspondence with this individual. And the very first thing I'd be asking for is, you know, I'd let them know what we want to pay, but I need to know she's alive, period. And then I don't know, you know, did that happen? And if it did happen, what was the next response, right? Did something go wrong in the negotiation and we're just not being told? But you said it, we're just not being told. There's a lot of information we don't have.
01:47:01.540What do you make, James, of the, if this is true, the report by Nerdy, of the report that the kidnapper apologized in the second note?
01:47:14.160I'm sorry, and she's gone to be with God?
01:47:17.780Again, I've seen notes like that with regards to a scam.
01:47:22.220I've seen anything they can say to, you know, curry favor to feel as though, you know, because she's clearly grieving Savannah and the family.
01:47:30.580so he's playing upon that right and and i know she said something like you know how could someone do
01:47:35.520that and i'm sorry to say this but there's truly evil people walking this planet and they do do
01:47:40.500this and this is how they act and they will make you believe a lot of things that's why they're
01:47:44.300scam artists that's why they're successful and they play they prey upon that grief the vulnerability
01:47:49.280the sadness again you know they will say whatever it takes to get that money and to apologize or
01:47:55.560you know say they went with god it's like one of the tells is maureen i'm sure can tell you say
01:47:59.540this as well, Maureen, but as an investigator, when everyone, someone says, you know, I swear
01:48:04.180to God that whenever they, they put that on you, they're letting you, they're literally lying and
01:48:09.400they're trying to make you think they're telling the truth. They always say things like that.
01:48:14.320That is so true. Phil Houston, who's a lifelong CIA guy who literally wrote the book called Spy
01:48:20.500the Lie, he's a human lie detector, said, says that one of the things he looks at to figure out
01:51:01.420And I saw one woman on my X feed today
01:51:03.240asking a really good question about this soundbite.
01:51:06.480Let me play it and then we'll talk about it.
01:51:08.440This is Savannah talking about the moments
01:51:10.980she found out from Annie that Nancy was missing. And my sister called me and I said, is everything
01:51:19.620okay? And she said, no, she said, mom's missing. And I said, what are you talking about? She said,
01:51:29.860she's gone. And we, she was in a panic. I was in a panic. I'm like, call 911. She's like, I did.
01:51:40.620We've called them. They're here. And we thought that she must have had like some kind of medical episode in the night and that somehow, you know, the paramedics had come because the back doors were propped open, you know, and that didn't make any sense.
01:52:01.020We thought maybe they came and there was a stretcher and they took her out the back.
01:52:05.400But her phone was there and her purse was there and all her things.
01:52:29.320Okay, in the longer version of the clip, Savannah sets up that story by saying her husband had been away on a guy's weekend that weekend, and he had just come home, and that she had been at Carson Daly's house with her kids all day, and she had just gotten home, and that they were getting ready, it was the evening, and then the sister called.
01:52:52.120Well, we know from the authorities that 9-1-1 was called just after noon that morning, right?
01:52:59.900Nancy, they revised the timeline, but they said at 1157, they realized Nancy wasn't there.
01:53:04.520They called 9-1-1 and that 9-1-1 got there.
01:53:07.240The authorities got there just after noon.
01:53:09.020So that would have been just after 3 p.m. East Coast time.
01:53:13.500So hours, hours went by from the sound of it before Annie Guthrie called Savannah.
01:53:20.980And I would give this woman online credit, but I didn't actually see her name.
01:53:24.240But she was saying, you only have one other sister.
01:53:28.860And she's got, Annie Guthrie has a brother, Cameron, and she's got a sister, Savannah.
01:53:33.000And the sister happens to have major resources.
01:53:35.700But the point is, you know your mother's potentially missing.
01:54:32.240And also, wouldn't you have just called her to say, have you heard from her?
01:54:37.780like it is very strange the more i think about it that annie guthrie did not call savannah guthrie
01:54:44.420for hours apparently and after she knew that something had gone very very wrong with the
01:54:51.340mother she was probably just you know i mean she's gonna say annie's gonna say that she was
01:54:58.040trying to figure it out and that she and tomasa were but to your point you know i would absolutely
01:55:03.160one of my first phone calls would be like to one of my sisters, hey, get on the phone and
01:55:08.180call these three hospitals. I'll have Eileen call the other three hospitals or divvy up these
01:55:13.520nearby hospitals between the two of you. I'm here doing a ground search. I'm trying to find mom in
01:55:19.220the house. I have no idea why the door is propped open. There's blood in the front entryway. But I
01:55:25.320could see how the only thing that really stands out to me is that door being propped open. Not
01:55:31.320the only thing. But the thing that really blows my mind is that door being propped open because
01:55:36.720she apparently left through the front door. And I mean, was the initial plan to pull the
01:55:43.380car around back and then they had to abort mission and the driver came up on the circle
01:55:48.240driveway instead and then they went out the front door? I don't know. But with them removing
01:55:53.940the camera, that makes me believe that part of the plan was to remove Nancy via the front
01:55:59.900door. And perhaps if it was a kidnapping to begin with, that was the plan, they wouldn't want the
01:56:07.140family to see what condition she was in when they pulled her out of that house.
01:56:13.120Well, we speculated yesterday, James was here, about whether maybe they did take her out of
01:56:20.820the house. Maybe they threw her over the shoulder and walked out of the front of the house.
01:56:23.400And one of the questions I have is, does Savannah know that her mother was wearing
01:56:28.140the pajamas. She said that yesterday without her shoes in her pajamas, because she's seen maybe
01:56:35.060additional images from the Nest camera that the rest of us haven't seen, or is it more likely that
01:56:43.240she's going off of what was in that first ransom note that she's taking so seriously, James,
01:56:48.000which you heard Harvey Levin say, describes what Nancy was wearing. And maybe she's just going by
01:56:55.380that, that she, maybe the note says we took her in her pajamas without her shoes.
01:57:00.520Yeah. And it's interesting. I didn't catch, but what she led with was that when she talked,
01:57:06.840when Savannah, what she led with was when she talked to her sister, that her sister said,
01:57:11.400something's odd, mom's missing. And notice she said the door was propped open. Well,
01:57:16.380what about the blood? If you and I were brother and sister, Megan, and I called you and I said,
01:57:21.840hey, there's blood all over mom's porch. I'd lead with that. I wouldn't lead with door propped
01:57:27.580open, right? I'd lead with blood. I'd lead with a camera knocked off the front. That was not said.
01:57:35.360And I try not to ever really get involved in family dynamics and why, you know, a call was
01:57:41.880made or not made. You know, we just don't know enough. I don't know enough about that family
01:57:47.500dynamic, but if they're taking care of, meaning if Savannah's sister and her brother-in-law are
01:57:53.160taking care of the mother and they're there frequently, there might be a lot of things
01:57:57.140going on that they don't ever call Savannah about. Again, I don't know the family well enough. I do
01:58:02.760know families, and sometimes that does happen. So I don't find the three hours terribly strange,
01:58:09.140but I do have a problem with not knowing about. So did she not know about the blood? Why not lead
01:58:14.320with that. It makes me feel like they didn't know. It's possible she's been told not to discuss
01:58:22.320evidence at the crime scene. Maybe she thinks the blood is not to be discussed, even though
01:58:28.060we've all seen it. I mean, it's not a secret, thanks to the investigators.
01:58:32.160I feel like they didn't know. I feel like the law enforcement, they remember yesterday we talked
01:58:36.720about law enforcement trying to talk. It sounds like they're trying to tell the family it's not
01:58:40.600a big deal. People go missing all the time. And the family keeps saying, no, no, you don't
01:58:44.080understand. She can't just walk away. She has this hard thing. No mention. I think maybe they
01:58:50.720started searching later and then found this blood and then called a crime scene unit and all those
01:58:56.260things. I think that took a while because if they had known that in the beginning, then certainly
01:59:01.480the prop door is a concern, but blood's more concerning. And I think I lead with that one.
01:59:06.380mm-hmm i would too but meanwhile she yeah go ahead with regard to what she was wearing
01:59:12.680it could be a simple case megan of um you know one of the granddaughters bought her a hello kitty
01:59:19.300sleep shirt or something and she always wore either that or this other thing and they all
01:59:24.120know it and you know or something very anecdotal like that and they noticed that one of them was
01:59:29.320missing that their sleep shirt she always wears is missing something distinctive you know that's
01:59:35.480what I've thought of when I heard that. I mean, I'll tell you something. I know exactly what my
01:59:40.480mom sleeps in. I know exactly what it is. And if somebody ever took her while wearing it,
01:59:45.180they'd be able to convince me in a heartbeat that they had her. It's like distinctive. I know
01:59:50.120every option she has and what she does. So if that's the case here, then maybe there was
01:59:56.020something that really convinced them this person in the first note is the person. But I have my
02:00:01.720doubts because we have seen the Apple Watch on Nancy on previous Today Show segments. We've seen
02:00:08.540Nancy's cane on previous segments. I don't know if they mentioned the cane, but they might have
02:00:13.680known that she was not that mobile from that information. We've seen, as we discussed now,
02:00:19.380the inside of Nancy's bedroom in that videotape that we found from 2013. I don't know whether
02:00:24.500this person ever saw that, but if you were doing a planned kidnapping on Nancy, you might take a
02:00:29.320deep dive into whatever segments you could find where they showed the inside of Nancy's home,
02:00:33.660which they did on the Today Show. So it's very possible this person could write a convincing
02:00:37.700note that they had Nancy, even if they didn't. As we've discussed before, I don't understand a
02:00:44.360kidnapper who's like, check the floodlight as proof that I have Nancy. Like Maureen,
02:00:51.060that just doesn't like the floodlight. That's something anyone can see from the outside of the
02:00:55.160house. Well, yeah, the floodlight. But the Apple Watch, I'm convinced because for the FBI to take
02:00:59.580this seriously, and James can agree with me because they were talking about it. They got
02:01:04.460together. Everyone discussed it. It had to be something specific, like I ripped her Apple Watch
02:01:11.180off. I broke the buckle to where she hooked it on. I threw it. He said it was the location.
02:01:17.560I threw it under her nightstand or under the dresser, or I threw it into the bathroom.
02:01:24.800something like that. So it's got a couple of elements that just no one else knew about unless
02:01:30.000they were there. That's exactly right. Go ahead, James. Yeah, that's exactly right. And yeah,
02:01:35.040I just, again, she's very emotional and she's hanging on to any thread at all. And so for her
02:01:42.560to believe that, you know, the note was for real, I completely understand how that could happen due
02:01:47.800to, you know, the emotional nature of it. And not to say that her brother's not emotional, but I'd
02:01:52.800love to hear from him. Did he think, or did the sister, the other sister believe that, you know,
02:01:58.140this was real? I'd like to hear from them. And again, I could see her believing that because
02:02:05.000of the, you know, they are, these victims are hanging on to any shred of hope that, you know,
02:02:10.680it's going to be a good outcome. I mean, I do think it's interesting that the brother,
02:02:15.660this fighter pilot, his mind immediately went to she was kidnapped for ransom. Like Savannah told
02:02:23.300us that yesterday without even, and he didn't get there until a couple of days in James. So that was
02:02:28.080him just being, just having the crime scene described to him by phone. He immediately went to
02:02:33.480someone stole her to extort money from us because knowing Savannah had means.
02:02:39.440Exactly. You know, and that's kind of what, again, what I was talking about yesterday,
02:02:42.520You know, he was intuitively he was putting it together. And, you know, if you've ever been through a traumatic situation, you know, that's exactly what happens.
02:02:53.020I was actually stalked one time and and the cops were asking me, you know, who do you think it is?
02:02:58.800And I immediately put it together. And, you know, I had no train. This was I was very young.
02:03:02.760I didn't have any training in FBI stuff or stalking or any of that. But I just, you know, put it together intuitively that is so and so.
02:03:08.960And sure enough, that's exactly who was stalking me. So it doesn't surprise me at all that that's what happened. Again, intuition is a very powerful thing, and it operates at a subconscious level faster than a computer. And he put it together very quickly and not surprised by it at all.
02:03:26.160And Megan, the fighter pilots, they go through all kinds of training of being taken into custody by state actors and others and tortured.
02:03:38.960And so they go through a whole series of training where when something goes bad, it usually goes bad pretty quickly.
02:03:45.580And, you know, with that front door or that back door propped open, her not being there, she obviously didn't walk away.
02:06:57.040No, but I'm not I'm not blaming them, but I'm not stepping away from them.
02:07:01.200I'm objective. I'm going to go wherever the evidence leads me.
02:07:04.460However, I do think it's got to be someone that knew Nancy.
02:07:10.460I don't think it was a complete stranger.
02:07:13.560I think it was someone that interacted with her, knew how vulnerable she was, and the fact that she was vulnerable and she also had access to a great deal of money if, in fact, it was a kidnapping from the beginning.
02:07:27.940We just don't have enough information on this end of the deal right now.
02:07:32.020And if this were my case or James, we would probably love it if everyone was saying, hey, we don't have any suspects whatsoever.
02:07:41.380Just let people go and do what they do, and we'll just put our head down and try to solve this case.
02:07:59.380Let's pray, God, that that's actually what is happening here, that Chad has been used by somebody trying to throw everybody or the suspects that they do have off the scent.
02:20:59.280I have no idea why, but it could be as simple as, hey, we got 12,000 tips overall, and we
02:21:05.060did a triage and all the strong tips went to the top of the list. We're working our way down. We're
02:21:10.560down to we have another 600 to go. We're still, you know, but I think honestly, I think part of
02:21:17.940the reason why the FBI pulled the resources back to Phoenix is they're going to be in their own
02:21:23.160space. They're going to have, you know, they're going to have all the FBI resources, but it also
02:21:29.080creates distance between them and nano so they can just do what they want to do. And it also gives
02:21:34.060breathing room to the detectives in Pima County that are assigned to that task force so they can
02:21:39.700just work with the FBI and stay a little bit away from the drama. If she was taken by kidnappers
02:21:47.560because Savannah is well known and has money and the first ransom demand came in and they believe
02:21:55.120it, Savannah to this moment believes it was from the people who took her mom, why didn't they pay?
02:22:04.060Truly, I know they didn't give proof of life, but she's telling us she believed she was communicating with the people who had Nancy.
02:22:11.560Like, would the FBI have been saying, even though you believe it, we suspect, we got a hunch this is them, don't pay without proof of life?
02:22:21.420Well, we don't know how many ransom notes they got.
02:22:23.680Because she mentioned in this, in that last clip, that of all the ransom notes, well, we only know of three.
02:22:30.020My guess is the other ones went to either the Pima County Sheriff or the FBI.
02:22:34.060In which case, we don't know about those.
02:22:36.860So maybe the FBI is like, listen, we have one here, one at Pima County, and this other one, and let's give the money to whoever comes up with the proof of life.
02:23:12.640They've received both ransom notes from the Bitcoin guy saying, this is the person that
02:23:18.540Harvey says said, this is what she was wearing.
02:23:21.300She had the Apple watch and exactly the placement of it.
02:23:24.660Take a look at this floodlight and had deadlines in it and had 4 million and then 6 million
02:23:29.520and then talked about 12 hours of the Tucson area.
02:23:32.000Like that's, they've received a very detailed ransom note and then a follow-up that may or may not have said, we didn't know how sick she was and she's with God.
02:23:42.180But here's what the family said, having had all that and knowing this is Saturday night, that the last deadline, they've missed the first deadline, which was Thursday for $4 million.
02:23:50.340The last deadline is coming of Monday for $6 million.
02:27:30.500I just the other thing with the payment situation, when they said you can go to any you can go to any post office, let us know which one and we'll have the cash there ready for you.
02:27:44.320And, you know, the interviews after that with with me, I think it was with you where Fitz and I were both like, yeah, that's a great idea.
02:27:53.560But we're both thinking exactly what the perpetrators are thinking like that's unsurvivable.
02:27:58.000There's no way I'm going to walk into a United States post office, get a giant duffel bag of millions of dollars and then walk out and not get caught.
02:28:06.620So I think they're just at the point where they need to, these perpetrators need to cut their losses because Nancy's gone.
02:28:14.860And I actually think that, I actually believe that Savannah knows her mom's gone.
02:28:19.620I don't see any hope left for her to be alive, but I do think they have hope that they'll be able to bring her home and have a celebration of life.
02:28:29.200so I just think the the bad guys are just like we're never gonna I think they're getting more
02:28:36.120comfortable right now by the way because when Savannah said if they've been asked acting
02:28:39.900strange for the last eight weeks sure but they got away with it for eight weeks now and to Jim's
02:28:46.380point of you know how many days it's been so far they're starting to get comfortable again whoever
02:28:51.620this person or these people are they're starting to get comfortable again because they they're
02:28:57.960still walking around. I mean, there's still a million dollar reward out there for information
02:29:03.120leading to the identification of the perpetrator or the finding of Nancy. It's still possible
02:29:08.280someone could say, I want that million dollars. It's possible the family could raise the reward
02:29:13.400still. And I mean, I guess it's possible that somebody who hasn't seen that guy's picture
02:29:21.840will now. We talked about how the billboards were insufficient that they're putting up all
02:29:25.940around the Southwest because they only showed Nancy. They don't show the picture of that guy.
02:29:30.100Well, guess what? They, after our discussion, they actually changed the billboards. It was
02:29:33.740amazing. Jennifer Coffender noted that on her X feed. So they, they did change the billboards
02:29:39.140and now his picture's on them. So it's possible, you know, this guy, you're married to this guy,
02:29:43.520you employ this guy and you don't know, you know, a lot of people don't even follow the news. You
02:29:48.960know, they, they just live their lives. Those are the happy people. And they don't, they haven't
02:29:55.360seen this picture a million times like we all have. And they see this picture, like there's
02:29:58.540still some hope. I didn't want to show one thing Savannah said. We have 90 seconds left. Do I have
02:30:05.560time? Let's play Sat 23 quickly. But faith is how I will stay connected to my mom.
02:30:15.120God is how I'm holding hands with my mom