The Megyn Kelly Show - CNN Refuses to Fire Don Lemon, Biden’s Message to Putin, How the Media Got ＂Cozy＂ With Power, with Glenn Beck and Steve Krakauer

00:00:00.440 Welcome to The Megyn Kelly Show, your home for open, honest, and provocative conversations.

00:00:11.620 Hey everyone, I'm Megyn Kelly. Welcome to The Megyn Kelly Show.

00:00:15.100 We have a jam-packed show for you today, including Donald Trump's surprising response this morning

00:00:19.960 to Nikki Haley's Mental Competency Challenge.

00:00:23.420 And I have a little advice, too, for CNN, ahead of sending Don Lemon in for formal training

00:00:31.780 on how not to be a misogynist.

00:00:34.640 Literally, that's happening.

00:00:36.520 Joining me now, Glenn Beck.

00:00:38.240 He's the host of The Glenn Beck.

00:00:39.500 That's so crazy.

00:00:41.580 That's so crazy.

00:00:43.720 Don Lemon, just fire the guy.

00:00:46.020 For the love of Pete, fire the guy.

00:00:48.180 Honestly, grow a pair.

00:00:50.100 Be honest about this.

00:00:51.320 You know, here's what I love about it, Glenn.

00:00:53.420 They had pictures in the New York Post of Don Lemon in Miami and South Beach, frolicking

00:00:59.520 in the ocean over the weekend.

00:01:01.440 And the Daily Mail was writing about, and the New York Post, too, about how he just looked

00:01:05.200 totally relaxed and happy.

00:01:06.800 And I was like, that is the face of a black gay male who is uncancellable at CNN.

00:01:14.420 Glenn Beck, you would not be looking that way if you had said anything close to as misogynistic

00:01:19.360 as what he said.

00:01:20.880 But he's protected.

00:01:21.800 If either one of us, when we were at Fox, if we would have said, well, let's be honest,

00:01:25.580 Hillary's passed her prime.

00:01:27.420 Do you think the world wouldn't have caved in on top of us?

00:01:31.580 Right.

00:01:32.300 No, it's different.

00:01:33.580 And that's the third thing.

00:01:35.100 Black, gay, liberal man who gets the protections that the rest of America doesn't get.

00:01:40.440 So that's why he looks relaxed.

00:01:41.980 It's why he will not be fired.

00:01:43.440 And it's why he's been out over his skis when it comes to women and other issues for a long,

00:01:49.360 long time.

00:01:49.720 It's why he got away with helping Jussie Smollett when he was facing criminal charges.

00:01:54.060 Like, he gets away with stuff you would never get away with, Glenn Beck.

00:01:57.420 Never.

00:01:57.540 No, and I shouldn't get away with it.

00:02:00.040 None of us should get away with it.

00:02:01.780 This is why I think the left is easy to beat if you just call them on it.

00:02:08.480 If you don't flinch and you call them on it because they cannot back anything up.

00:02:14.620 They are weak.

00:02:15.360 They haven't been pushed so they can refine their argument even.

00:02:19.820 It just goes into, oh, you're a fascist.

00:02:23.740 That's why.

00:02:24.800 That's why.

00:02:25.420 Because they have never been pushed.

00:02:27.880 Anyone who is a conservative has been pushed up against the wall over and over and over again.

00:02:33.260 You have to check yourself.

00:02:34.800 You have to see, am I those things?

00:02:37.220 Is this right?

00:02:38.560 Why do I believe those things?

00:02:41.080 They don't have to.

00:02:42.900 No, they don't.

00:02:43.480 And now, like, the farce of CNN, I'm pulling up my tweets, sending him for re-education camp, which is so absurd.

00:02:50.680 Like, that's going to work.

00:02:51.620 I mean, I guess we just have to pretend that he's going to learn how not to be a sexist at this camp.

00:02:56.780 I don't know what the camp looks like.

00:02:58.240 Did they put Chris Cuomo through the camp?

00:03:00.320 Did they put Jeff Zucker through the camp?

00:03:02.380 Because their camp sucks.

00:03:03.880 They need to revise their camp.

00:03:05.740 They need less horseback riding, more time with actual women who are strong and know how to stand up for themselves.

00:03:11.040 I'm sorry.

00:03:11.640 Here's my suggestion, Glenn.

00:03:13.680 Who's surprised the left is building camps?

00:03:14.980 I've got my own plan for Don Lemon, okay?

00:03:18.860 Day one.

00:03:19.320 This is my tweet.

00:03:20.940 Day one of Don Lemon's formal training on how not to be a misogynist.

00:03:24.060 Let's help.

00:03:24.760 We got you, Don.

00:03:26.260 Number one, women are not damaged goods when they hit 40.

00:03:29.760 That could take a whole day, Glenn.

00:03:31.160 I don't know if that could take a while for them to let that sink in.

00:03:34.120 Number two, rape victims don't need your lecture on how to respond to their rape.

00:03:39.340 That was his infamous comment to a Bill Cosby rape victim telling her how she could have gotten out of it in his view.

00:03:45.480 Number three, women forgetting a fact do not have mommy brain.

00:03:48.960 They're human.

00:03:50.700 Tell it to Essie Cupp, who he offended by accusing her of mommy brain when she forgot her train of thought.

00:03:55.140 Four, screaming at your female co-anchor because she interrupted you to the point where she runs away is considered rude and unprofessional.

00:04:05.380 Number five.

00:04:06.520 Rude, sure.

00:04:07.120 We could start there.

00:04:09.620 Number five, postponing an ad break to mansplain to said co-anchor in front of the audience how to properly conduct an interview is an act of, and this is a technical term, douchebaggery.

00:04:21.260 Number six.

00:04:23.960 I'm almost done.

00:04:25.140 Defending sexism with, some of my best friends are women.

00:04:29.780 It would not excuse racism.

00:04:31.780 Some of my best friends are black, and it does not excuse sexism.

00:04:35.940 Number seven, I am going to continue to be me, which is what he told the CNN newsroom when he was forced to call in and apologize on Friday, is not an acceptable plan when me is a guy who clearly loathes women.

00:04:48.420 No, me needs to change.

00:04:50.340 Me needs to go away and come back in a different form.

00:04:52.320 And last but not least, number eight, when under fire for misogyny, try to at least look and act sorry.

00:05:00.240 Perhaps the orchestrated frolicking in the ocean with the shirt off could be postponed until the controversy is a little bit more in the rear view.

00:05:10.300 There you go, Glenn Beck, free of charge.

00:05:12.380 There's my own re-education camp.

00:05:14.640 Thank you.

00:05:15.200 Thank you very much.

00:05:16.180 I appreciate that.

00:05:17.020 Is it crazy that for the last few weeks we have been talking about Don Lemon, we have been talking about balloons, the possibility that those balloons may have been piloted by small little aliens who buy their balloons at Hobby Lobby?

00:05:33.620 I mean, I can't believe the nonsense that is being jammed in front of the American people every single day when, like, it's like, are we going to war?

00:05:47.460 Because it kind of sounds like it.

00:05:49.260 So that's I've been listening to your show, too, and it's like it took Joe Biden going over to Ukraine to snap a lot of people out of like, wait, what's he doing there?

00:05:58.000 Why are we we're we're going next level.

00:06:00.600 We're doing another half a billion dollars as the American public support for this war and for our involvement in it is falling precipitously, according to that latest poll.

00:06:13.280 I mean, first of all, you should be in Ohio, not Kiev.

00:06:19.960 Yeah.

00:06:20.260 Second of all, you should be worried about our Social Security and our pension funds, not the Ukrainian pension funds.

00:06:28.860 We're literally paying their pensions now.

00:06:30.940 You pointed out yesterday on your show that he kind of slipped that in there.

00:06:34.440 We're going to pay for their pensions, but apparently not ours.

00:06:38.220 Yeah.

00:06:38.960 And then on top of it, yesterday, the press was saying it is so brave of him.

00:06:43.280 So brave of him.

00:06:44.480 No president has ever spoken on sight of someone else's war.

00:06:50.460 Yeah.

00:06:50.920 Maybe because it's starting to appear that it's not someone else's war.

00:06:55.680 It's kind of like becoming our war.

00:06:58.860 I mean, well, the other thing is, Glenn, you and I know we both know he called the Russians first and said, I'm going to be there.

00:07:04.800 And according to his White House team, it was for de-confliction purposes.

00:07:09.000 De-confliction.

00:07:09.920 That's what they said.

00:07:10.560 Right.

00:07:10.620 In other words, don't shoot me while I'm in Ukraine.

00:07:13.440 So could you just spare me on how brave?

00:07:15.080 It's like there was never any chance of President Biden getting bombed by the Russians while he was in Ukraine.

00:07:21.240 It was the safest place on Earth, most likely.

00:07:24.600 And I love the fact that CNN reported as part of that bravery.

00:07:27.900 I have I've been here for two weeks and I haven't heard the air raid siren go off until President Biden landed.

00:07:35.000 Well, I mean, a couple of things.

00:07:36.920 That's probably good advice.

00:07:38.440 President Biden's coming.

00:07:39.760 You might want to hide.

00:07:40.680 But the other is who did that?

00:07:44.540 That wasn't the Russians putting the air raid siren.

00:07:47.260 Those were the Ukrainians.

00:07:48.840 There weren't any bombs.

00:07:49.980 There weren't any planes.

00:07:51.740 Russia wasn't threatening.

00:07:53.500 So it was the Ukrainians going, hey, we should hunker down.

00:07:57.460 Here comes the president.

00:07:59.060 That that's not a sign of bravery.

00:08:01.420 Not a sign.

00:08:01.780 We had already pre-gamed it to make sure that he wasn't in any danger, as we should.

00:08:06.860 But then don't try to turn around and tell us how.

00:08:09.040 Oh, he was so brave.

00:08:10.460 It's amazing how well he handled.

00:08:12.200 Even the Russian journalists are out there saying that's now is a fake news air siren.

00:08:17.160 And you know what, Glenn?

00:08:18.060 I think they were right.

00:08:19.000 I think the Russian journalists got this one more right than the Americans did.

00:08:22.840 I, I, I, I, I, did you see the Putin speech today?

00:08:28.440 Yeah.

00:08:28.760 Putin, you did not?

00:08:30.780 Yeah, I did.

00:08:31.740 Yeah.

00:08:32.000 Yeah, I did.

00:08:32.500 So he, he ripped up the treaty, our START treaty.

00:08:36.880 So there's no nuclear treaty for the first time in decades.

00:08:40.600 That's good.

00:08:41.300 He then went on and said how we are trying to overthrow Russia, that we started this.

00:08:49.860 Um, and, uh, they've tried to do everything peaceful, but because they want to overthrow

00:08:55.720 us, we can't stop fighting.

00:08:58.200 He won't take nukes off the table.

00:09:00.320 I, I don't think there is a chance.

00:09:02.420 He may use tactical nukes, but I think that would be a huge mistake, but I think he's going

00:09:06.420 to do what he said he did.

00:09:07.860 If we are indeed engaging in a war, he'll attack our infrastructure.

00:09:13.220 Ones and zeros.

00:09:14.020 He said is how, uh, world war three will be fought and we're not ready to fight that

00:09:18.800 way.

00:09:19.580 Um, but he is very, very serious.

00:09:23.920 And if you look at the way the Western press talked about him, they talk about Biden being

00:09:29.920 so stately and, and so brave and Putin has completely unhinged.

00:09:36.280 He's, I don't think he's an unhinged.

00:09:38.800 He's evil.

00:09:39.640 He's a bad guy.

00:09:40.820 He's a ruthless, bloodthirsty killer, but he's not unhinged.

00:09:46.480 And, uh, Biden, however, is kind of unhinged.

00:09:50.780 The stuff we're doing and the stuff we're talking about has never worked.

00:09:55.480 We are at our lowest level of clout because of him.

00:10:00.500 Um, and we are, we're doing things that quite honestly, I don't think makes any sense whatsoever,

00:10:07.240 unless you're trying to a start a war or be completely dismantle the United States of

00:10:14.880 America.

00:10:16.180 The, uh, just to follow up and add some meat on those bones.

00:10:19.360 It was an associated press, uh, poll 48% of American adults are in favor of providing

00:10:24.860 weapons to Ukraine, which is down from 60% in May.

00:10:28.780 And we are only going in one direction as you know, you've been pointing out yet.

00:10:33.800 Yes.

00:10:34.080 We said no for now to F 16 fighter jets, but we did the tanks.

00:10:39.720 We're doing billions of dollars.

00:10:41.860 We send the president over there.

00:10:44.240 Things are only escalating.

00:10:45.900 We're demanding complete victory.

00:10:47.680 Only, only our version of victory will be accepted.

00:10:50.680 So the American support is going down and our president's behavior and its support is going up.

00:10:56.980 I don't understand it.

00:10:58.440 Can you imagine?

00:10:59.640 We all knew that Russia was involved in Vietnam.

00:11:03.460 We knew the Chinese and everybody, all the communists were involved in Vietnam.

00:11:07.700 We knew that.

00:11:09.100 But Brezhnev never went to Vietnam and stood among them and said to the very end, if they

00:11:17.420 would have done that, I think America would have fought that war differently because Russia was our

00:11:25.480 sworn enemy at the time.

00:11:27.240 We have Russia's sworn enemy right now.

00:11:30.600 And our guy is going over to their battlefield and saying, we're with you to the end.

00:11:37.560 And the end means regime change.

00:11:39.620 Why would Russians think anything other than it's our war?

00:11:48.300 Yeah.

00:11:48.880 That's right.

00:11:49.760 We've had mission creep here in the United States.

00:11:51.580 It didn't start off with a total and utter defeat of Russia and regime change.

00:11:56.380 That was a Biden insertion in this whole process.

00:11:59.260 And now it's gotten to the point where I saw your tweet the other day, you know, call your

00:12:03.980 senator, call your congressman, tell him they're not sending your child to go fight this war.

00:12:09.080 I feel 100 percent the same.

00:12:11.160 My children are going to go fight this war.

00:12:12.860 When did I agree?

00:12:14.020 When did my congressman vote in favor of this war?

00:12:16.760 Because that's where we're inching.

00:12:17.960 You know, we're not even discussing it anymore.

00:12:20.980 You remember the days when Congress actually did its job and debated.

00:12:25.260 We're not even having a debate on it.

00:12:27.180 It's just happening.

00:12:29.680 And and, you know.

00:12:32.340 I have to tell you, and this may be something that you don't want to talk about or you disagree

00:12:38.020 with me on.

00:12:39.480 I don't know the answer to this, but I am very concerned about the Nord Stream pipeline.

00:12:45.920 Oh, yeah.

00:12:46.700 None of that Cy Hirsch reporting was absolutely stunning.

00:12:49.740 Right.

00:12:50.660 And nobody seems interested in that.

00:12:53.400 And if that is true, if it's true, I'm not saying it is, but someone should look into it.

00:12:59.560 I know senators that cannot get a secure briefing on any of that.

00:13:05.600 That should tell you something.

00:13:07.540 So if we blew that up, that is an act of war.

00:13:11.840 Now, Russia just said that they are preparing to call the United Nations Security Council

00:13:17.480 on that subject.

00:13:19.500 There are only five countries that could even possibly do it.

00:13:23.620 There's really only one that doesn't have to answer to anybody else and has reason to

00:13:29.500 do it.

00:13:29.840 And that's us.

00:13:31.420 That's an act of war.

00:13:33.200 And if Russia would declare war on us for international terrorism, I got news for you.

00:13:41.100 I would much rather grab a bunch of citizens, surround the White House and say, the president

00:13:47.100 and anyone else involved in this needs to face justice, not mob justice, but they need

00:13:53.260 to face justice.

00:13:54.320 And I do that much faster than go fight a war that we weren't talking about.

00:14:01.460 We would have never approved blowing up the Nord Stream pipeline if these people did that.

00:14:09.840 I hate to say it, but it's true.

00:14:12.520 It's they're traitors.

00:14:14.400 They're traitors to the United States of America.

00:14:17.020 We would never have approved that.

00:14:19.580 And if they went around Congress on approval, what do you do, Megan?

00:14:25.260 You've got to know it.

00:14:26.680 And if it's true, you have to deal with it, because if they'll do that, the people really

00:14:32.140 have lost all control of their nation.

00:14:34.820 Yeah, no, I mean, that really is starting a war without the blessing of the American people,

00:14:40.340 never mind just a Biden operation.

00:14:42.540 I mean, nobody yet in Congress, nobody would have been involved other than, according to

00:14:46.360 that Seymour Hersh article, like the darkest forces who would be given the ability to deny

00:14:52.260 it under oath, given the agencies they used.

00:14:54.560 Let me just read this, Glenn.

00:14:56.580 White House National Security Council spokesperson Adrian Watson described the Hersh report as,

00:15:01.900 quote, complete fiction.

00:15:03.580 A CIA intelligence, CIA agency spokesperson echoed the White House denial, calling the report

00:15:08.840 completely and utterly false.

00:15:12.100 And this is supposed to be enough for us to say, oh.

00:15:16.360 Oh, it's not true.

00:15:17.820 They said it's not true, Glenn.

00:15:19.900 So move on.

00:15:20.300 I know when you have multiple senators, and Mike Lee has talked to me about this a lot.

00:15:26.160 And Mike is, you know, Mike, he's very reasoned.

00:15:28.740 He's not flying off the handle.

00:15:30.500 He doesn't, you know, when he says, gosh, he apologizes for it.

00:15:35.400 And Mike has called me several times and said this on the air as well.

00:15:40.840 Glenn, the fact that I cannot rule this out is enough for me to be very concerned about

00:15:49.940 it.

00:15:50.440 He said when he first started talking about it, he said, I just don't believe we did that.

00:15:55.440 He said, but we have to check it out.

00:15:59.000 He's been trying to get a classified security briefing on this subject.

00:16:05.780 He and others in the Senate and the House cannot get one.

00:16:12.340 That's not supposed to happen.

00:16:15.060 Who, I mean, going to the CIA and demanding it?

00:16:17.760 Like, how can they be rejected?

00:16:20.660 Exactly.

00:16:21.820 Exactly.

00:16:22.460 And that's what he's saying.

00:16:23.380 How, what is happening?

00:16:24.900 Why does no one care about this?

00:16:26.700 Why?

00:16:26.840 I can't get a briefing.

00:16:29.340 I can't get the national security to, to come in and give a senator who has oversight

00:16:36.000 a briefing on this operation.

00:16:39.540 Why?

00:16:40.660 And just to update the audience, Glenn.

00:16:42.680 So, so this is, most people probably saw this last week, but Seymour Hersh released this

00:16:48.280 report saying, long-term investigative journalist, right on some things, not always, saying that

00:16:54.700 we blew up the Nord Stream 2 pipeline.

00:16:56.640 We did it.

00:16:57.040 The United States, not Russia, as was initially claimed by our government.

00:17:01.580 And we had threatened to do it.

00:17:03.040 Joe Biden's on camera threatening to do it prior to it being done.

00:17:07.180 And ever since then, we've just said, it wasn't us, it wasn't us.

00:17:09.760 And you were pointing out on your show recently, why isn't Germany objecting more loudly, right?

00:17:16.660 Like, if it were the Russians, wouldn't we be hearing more from Germany, which was so

00:17:21.440 dependent on Nord Stream, like about the fact that it was blown up?

00:17:25.140 Or like the fact that they're not saying much suggests maybe they know it was us and they

00:17:29.500 understood why we did it.

00:17:30.760 So let's, let's go through the countries that have the capability of doing something like

00:17:35.980 that.

00:17:36.200 It's extraordinarily technical.

00:17:38.540 It would be, I mean, it's just only five countries could do it.

00:17:43.000 China, maybe, but they don't, they don't have any reason to blow up the Nord Stream

00:17:49.180 pipeline.

00:17:50.480 Russia, why would they do it?

00:17:53.720 Maybe to make us look guilty, then why didn't they make that case immediately?

00:17:59.080 Then you have France.

00:18:01.180 France can do it.

00:18:03.620 If France doesn't do stuff like that, why would France do it?

00:18:07.660 And imagine the turn on the, on the, by the French people and the Germans and everybody

00:18:12.600 else, then you have England, England could do it, but not without our permission.

00:18:18.160 So we would have to know if England did it, the only one with the motive and the motivation

00:18:24.840 and the expertise to do it.

00:18:27.820 And the arrogance to think they could pull it off is us.

00:18:33.020 They're also, we're the only ones that would keep everybody in line.

00:18:37.020 Germany, shut up.

00:18:38.520 Everybody sit down, shut up.

00:18:40.320 This is, I mean, just, just through reason.

00:18:46.280 And, you know, usually the easiest answer is the right answer.

00:18:50.500 This needs to be investigated.

00:18:52.620 And the American people have to demand an answer because we cannot let them be this far

00:19:00.460 out of control.

00:19:01.220 To zoom out without diminishing that possibility or report at all, but to zoom out, it's not

00:19:07.000 going very well right now over in Ukraine.

00:19:09.340 And you have to be very skeptical of the news reports, which have come out over and over

00:19:13.580 telling us that they're winning, that Ukraine's going to win.

00:19:16.380 You know, you have to work for it.

00:19:17.600 This is kind of like a COVID situation in some ways where you have to work very hard to know

00:19:21.280 what's real because the press is rooting for this complete victory.

00:19:24.860 They would love to see regime change in Russia.

00:19:27.680 I always laugh.

00:19:28.320 You know, they, they think that like Jed Bartlett's going to take over as the new president of

00:19:33.320 Russia if Vladimir Putin is deposed.

00:19:36.860 Okay.

00:19:38.400 And so the guy, if they depose him, the guys most likely to take over are the ones saying

00:19:43.920 to him, why are you backing off of Ukraine?

00:19:46.920 Going in with everything you got.

00:19:48.640 Oh yeah.

00:19:48.920 I don't know who we think these mystical figures are, but my point is it isn't going well.

00:19:52.840 It was going better in the fall.

00:19:53.960 It's going poorly now for Ukraine against Russia and Ukraine could very well lose this

00:20:00.260 war still 100% could lose this war.

00:20:02.280 And, and in the not too distant future, despite all of our support.

00:20:06.320 And so why wouldn't we be in there now trying would have been better in the fall when you're

00:20:11.360 in a better position to force a negotiated settlement.

00:20:14.200 We're not going to get everything we want.

00:20:15.860 No one ever does.

00:20:16.780 And even when one does, you know, I know you're a historian, even when you get everything

00:20:21.100 you want and you go back and you humiliate somebody like Germany, there can be long lasting effects

00:20:27.080 of something like that that are not good for the, for the, for us, for the global stability

00:20:32.420 situation.

00:20:32.960 I just, it seems like we have only one goal right now and it's not a realistic one.

00:20:37.940 But yes, and that leads me to something.

00:20:41.420 And I know you, I think you have to break.

00:20:43.200 So if you want to break and then can we come back and pick it up right there?

00:20:46.140 Look at you.

00:20:46.560 This is what's so nice about interviewing another host.

00:20:49.140 Yeah.

00:20:50.060 I will take it.

00:20:51.300 Thank you.

00:20:54.000 He's going to do the traffic flow, which I really appreciate.

00:20:56.560 He stays with us after this quick break.

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00:22:02.960 So, Glenn, I'm going to pick up this discussion, but just to let you know and to let the audience

00:22:10.660 know, President Biden is speaking right now over in Poland, and he just finished actually

00:22:16.080 a minute ago.

00:22:16.680 And we've got a little bit about that and two soundbites in particular that play into the

00:22:20.580 discussion you and I are having just perfectly.

00:22:22.840 One, he's focused on Russia and its energy, right?

00:22:29.540 Back to the subject of who messed with Nord Stream?

00:22:32.440 Who cares about Russia's energy income?

00:22:36.560 Who told us Russia would be totally devastated by the sanctions that we in Europe imposed,

00:22:41.040 but Russia hasn't been?

00:22:43.220 Here's just a little bit of Biden on Russia and energy.

00:22:45.580 He thought he could weaponize energy to crack the resolve, Europe's resolve.

00:22:52.860 Instead, we're working together to end Europe's dependence on Russian fossil fuels.

00:22:59.460 How exactly?

00:23:00.460 Who weaponized energy?

00:23:03.360 I mean, I think we were the ones that weaponized energy first.

00:23:08.280 And how did we, how exactly are we working to end Europe's dependence on Russia?

00:23:13.600 We know some of the ways, you and I questioning here, do we know all of the ways and what

00:23:18.120 investigation will there be?

00:23:19.420 Turning the page from that, though, he goes on, this is a soundbite the White House is

00:23:23.040 going to want out there, talking about, talking tough, talking tough about autocrats.

00:23:28.300 Here it is.

00:23:30.580 Autocrats only understand one word, no, no, no.

00:23:38.280 No, you will not take my country.

00:23:41.920 No, you will not take my freedom.

00:23:43.580 No, you will not take my future.

00:23:45.860 And I'll repeat tonight what I said last year in this same place.

00:23:50.080 A dictator, bad night rebuilding an empire, will never be able to ease the people's love

00:23:57.240 of liberty.

00:23:58.660 Brutality will never grind down the will of the free.

00:24:02.120 And Ukraine, Ukraine will never be a victory for Russia, never.

00:24:10.920 Oh boy, where do you even begin on that?

00:24:13.080 That is going to be the new slogan of my program, though.

00:24:16.480 I think I'm going to say that it's top of every hour, beginning of every program.

00:24:20.620 Autocrats only know one word, no, no, you will not take my freedom.

00:24:25.320 No, you will not take my country.

00:24:29.040 What was the third one?

00:24:30.100 All of those, I kept thinking, well, that's you.

00:24:32.540 That's you.

00:24:33.160 You're taking away our rights with COVID.

00:24:36.880 You told us what we could do, what we couldn't do.

00:24:40.020 You are dismantling our country.

00:24:43.060 You're dismantling our freedom.

00:24:45.020 You're dismantling our energy.

00:24:47.340 And who gave you permission to do all of this?

00:24:50.620 No, no, Mr. President.

00:24:52.620 May I give you two scenarios?

00:25:00.460 Because people think that we are, people who are the Warhawks, think that we are fighting

00:25:07.200 World War II.

00:25:09.460 And I don't think so.

00:25:10.700 But let me give you the scenario for World War II.

00:25:14.160 World War II, you had two main players.

00:25:17.100 You had Hitler.

00:25:20.320 And Hitler was going to march into Poland.

00:25:22.840 And while he said for a year, I have no designs on Poland at all.

00:25:26.780 This is from my history library and vault.

00:25:31.660 This is a, I'm showing on camera a book.

00:25:35.700 This is a top secret book to the Russian commanders.

00:25:38.700 I'm sorry, to the Nazi commanders.

00:25:40.860 It has all the maps of Poland, where the troops will be stationed, where the tanks need to

00:25:45.860 go.

00:25:46.260 This is their entire battle plan.

00:25:48.300 This was printed a year before they entered into the battle in Poland.

00:25:53.820 So you had a psychopath liar on one hand.

00:25:57.800 Then on the other hand, you don't want to have Neville Chamberlain.

00:26:01.820 Neville Chamberlain is the guy who went over and met with Hitler and said, oh, no, he promised

00:26:05.500 peace in our time.

00:26:07.020 Well, no, we didn't get it.

00:26:08.240 This is, this I'm holding now is an original letter from Neville Chamberlain to the Hitler

00:26:16.920 youth.

00:26:17.840 He goes over and he meets the Hitler youth and he says, I've met with your wonderful

00:26:21.980 Fuhrer.

00:26:22.840 He's fantastic.

00:26:24.100 And you are the future of Germany.

00:26:27.360 So World War II, people that just wanted peace so badly, they'd overlook anything and a

00:26:34.180 psychopath.

00:26:35.400 Okay.

00:26:35.820 People think that he's a psychopath and he'll use Ukraine to pummel the West.

00:26:43.620 Maybe, maybe not.

00:26:45.500 But we don't have a Churchill that is terrifying to a Hitler who will actually stand up to him.

00:26:53.740 We have paper tigers all over.

00:26:56.600 Now, instead of World War II, let's look at World War I.

00:27:00.120 World War I, most people don't know the political elite in the Fabian Socialist Society.

00:27:06.840 They are, they're very much the progressives of today and the New World Order utopians.

00:27:13.980 It was George Bernard Shaw, the political elite.

00:27:17.680 It was Orwell.

00:27:18.980 And they looked at Europe and said, we have to reset Europe.

00:27:23.900 We can take out where, you know, we're scientific.

00:27:26.320 We're modern minded.

00:27:27.360 Now we got to get rid of some of these old empires.

00:27:29.940 And so they were looking for some reason to go to war.

00:27:34.860 And when they had the excuse, they were all in.

00:27:37.520 And they were excited about it because they thought they could reset everything and right all of the wrongs.

00:27:44.200 And it would be super.

00:27:45.440 And it would be a quick war.

00:27:47.080 Well, as we know, millions died.

00:27:49.900 It was a horrendous, horrible war.

00:27:53.160 And in the end, our Fabian Socialist, our progressive president, Wilson, saw this as the opportunity to go to a League of Nations, to have a group of nations that would all be working together on all subjects.

00:28:10.180 OK, what happened that president was the one that went over and helped negotiate the peace and he punished the Germans, punitive punishments that were beyond anything of reason.

00:28:24.460 Even at some point, I think it was the French that said, we got to we got to stop.

00:28:30.640 And that because of that, which is exactly what Zelensky said yesterday, not only do we will we not accept complete capitulation and a complete return, but we also will punitively go after Russia.

00:28:50.740 They have to pay for all of it.

00:28:53.000 That's exactly the setup for World War Two from World War One.

00:28:58.540 I think we are headed into a situation not like World War Two, but more like one.

00:29:05.680 We are on the wrong side and the Germans aren't the good side, you know, but, you know, in this case, the Russians aren't the good side.

00:29:13.720 But we have ulterior motives that nobody's really talking about.

00:29:17.860 Well, and in the meantime, China and Russia get closer.

00:29:21.860 China now reportedly threatening to offer lethal assistance to Russia in this battle they haven't yet done.

00:29:31.280 And we are act with China of trying to seem tough has completely fallen apart.

00:29:37.780 The the update in the balloon story, Glenn, you know, we saw that there was definitely the one balloon that was China's.

00:29:44.360 They came across the continental United States.

00:29:46.380 Sure.

00:29:46.740 All of the United States and Alaska made it right.

00:29:49.260 We did nothing.

00:29:50.920 Then we shot down a bunch of like God knows what.

00:29:53.960 I don't know what they were.

00:29:54.960 And neither did the Biden administration.

00:29:57.220 And Blinken canceled our meeting after the big with the Chinese, his meeting after the first big balloon.

00:30:03.500 And now he's just had it.

00:30:05.220 They had the they had the meeting.

00:30:06.820 We made him wait a whole 10 days, Glenn.

00:30:08.380 So there, take that.

00:30:09.380 Ha ha.

00:30:09.840 Man.

00:30:10.960 Mess with America.

00:30:13.240 Yeah.

00:30:13.460 State Department spokesperson says Blinken.

00:30:15.640 Here it is.

00:30:16.200 Quote.

00:30:17.280 Directly spoke to the unacceptable violation of U.S.

00:30:20.540 Sovereignty and international law and said incidents like this, quote, must never occur again.

00:30:26.840 Oh, you never again.

00:30:29.140 You naughty little Chinese.

00:30:31.260 Never.

00:30:31.780 Right.

00:30:32.360 Right.

00:30:32.560 So we're going to send you a sternly worded letter like Buttigieg did to that train company.

00:30:37.820 I'll tell you that right now.

00:30:39.280 That's right.

00:30:39.980 So that's our that's how we're handling the Chinese.

00:30:42.920 Meanwhile, the latest reports are these could have been cheap amateur radio balloons.

00:30:47.600 We have no idea.

00:30:48.180 We've been using four hundred thousand dollar missiles to blast out children's art projects from the sound of it.

00:30:54.200 Twelve.

00:30:54.520 Twelve dollar balloons.

00:30:55.900 Twelve dollar balloons.

00:30:56.580 That's us.

00:30:57.280 That's us.

00:30:57.680 I feel good.

00:30:58.200 So now we're finally focused on the children's air projects and we're focused on talking to China.

00:31:03.640 And we got Joe Biden over there in Ukraine saying never.

00:31:06.460 Nothing.

00:31:06.860 Nothing.

00:31:07.200 No.

00:31:07.440 Not an inch.

00:31:08.540 Right.

00:31:08.940 If it gets us into World War Three and we have totally ignored, as you've been pointing out a couple of times, what's happening now in East Palestine, Ohio.

00:31:16.780 I mean, totally ignored.

00:31:18.960 The reports are all over the place, but the White House apparently turned down their FEMA request, implying that disaster relief wasn't it wasn't the disaster wasn't big enough first.

00:31:30.000 But at the same time, they said it was too big.

00:31:31.840 New York Post had a good piece on this the other day.

00:31:34.600 You need more than what FEMA can provide.

00:31:36.440 Then after Biden told Ohio Governor Mike DeWine that the feds would give whatever they need.

00:31:42.800 They reversed it again.

00:31:44.100 The White House suggesting no, actually, no, it's not a job for us.

00:31:47.280 And no one's gone.

00:31:48.500 Pete Buttigieg says he'll go when the time is right, Glenn.

00:31:50.840 He will go when the time is right.

00:31:52.540 Why don't you go right now and start and take a shower using the well water of an East Palestine resident?

00:31:59.500 Do it now.

00:32:00.200 Drink out of their faucets on camera.

00:32:02.560 He says, oh, people only go when they want to do a photo or when they're actually needed.

00:32:06.960 What's actually needed is for you to go there and do that stuff.

00:32:09.380 Go there and do that stuff right now.

00:32:11.220 Do what you're asking these people to do and prove to us that you believe it's safe.

00:32:15.440 Joe Biden, Ukraine, fine.

00:32:17.040 East Palestine, you can pound sand.

00:32:19.080 Not going there.

00:32:20.560 You know, it's so amazing.

00:32:21.840 You know, when George Bush put on the fire helmet after 9-11, some people criticized him.

00:32:29.040 Oh, it's a photo opportunity.

00:32:30.260 He's flying over the hurricane damage.

00:32:32.500 They did this with Obama, too.

00:32:34.040 Oh, it's just a photo op.

00:32:35.480 Yeah, it's a photo op.

00:32:37.160 And sometimes that can cause more problems having somebody there.

00:32:40.520 But Pete Buttigieg is not going to.

00:32:42.400 I mean, what does he have?

00:32:43.300 Does anybody have like one Secret Service guy?

00:32:46.560 He can go there and not cause a big problem.

00:32:49.440 And it's not a photo op in the traditional sense.

00:32:53.400 It's a very important photo op to put your money where your mouth is or your life in your

00:32:59.220 lungs where your mouth is and show up, be there for several days, breathe the air, drink

00:33:05.540 the water.

00:33:06.740 That's a photo op.

00:33:08.000 And that's a good photo op, not a political photo op.

00:33:11.200 You're getting off the plane.

00:33:13.360 Yeah, you're getting off the plane and having a meeting.

00:33:16.160 East Palestine, Ohio, February 3rd, train derailed.

00:33:19.440 By Norfolk, Suffolk, derailed.

00:33:22.800 And they had a controlled explosion of some of the very toxic chemicals on board.

00:33:27.000 I think it was like something like dozens and dozens of train cards that were involved

00:33:30.720 in it, over 60.

00:33:31.860 So they blew up a few of them that had toxic chemicals.

00:33:34.780 And now the Fed's messaging has been everything's safe.

00:33:37.440 It's good.

00:33:38.020 Dead fish, like hundreds of dead fish.

00:33:40.040 People reporting dead animals who are just going out to like, you know, use the lawn as

00:33:44.900 their, you know, toilet, dying, the family dogs, people like coughing and having difficulty

00:33:51.860 breathing.

00:33:52.280 And yet the messaging from the feds has been, you're fine.

00:33:55.540 And, you know, Christina Peshaw, the press secretary for Ron DeSantis had a great tweet

00:33:59.320 earlier, Glenn, saying the media and these officials, they hate you because literally the

00:34:04.620 New York Times has a headline saying gas stoves are bad for you and could cause childhood

00:34:09.360 asthma and and mocking some of the concerns being raised out of East Palestine is like

00:34:14.660 insane conspiracy theories.

00:34:15.900 It's like, no, this is one we actually do need to look into.

00:34:19.920 Anyone with two eyes can see there are real dangers to these residents.

00:34:23.460 So but Megan, can we just stop there for just a second?

00:34:27.580 How many conspiracy theories have to be proven true before people are just saying you have

00:34:33.260 absolutely no credibility, media, no credibility, but Washington, no credibility.

00:34:39.660 I mean, this is such a dangerous thing to have a complete collapse of trust.

00:34:45.680 But when they say something, you know, the CDC comes out with a recommendation and, you know,

00:34:52.200 because some new Ebola viruses, unless we see it, we're not going to believe it and we're

00:35:00.680 not going to listen to what they say we have to do because they have no credibility.

00:35:07.440 And it's in that on almost every front because they've just so destroyed their credibility and

00:35:14.700 they won't they won't go and put their money where their mouth is.

00:35:18.820 That's why Pete Buttigieg, it's not a photo opportunity for politics.

00:35:23.440 It's a photo opportunity to restore trust.

00:35:26.740 Yeah.

00:35:27.040 If you trust it.

00:35:28.800 Yes.

00:35:29.180 If you trust it, spend a few days.

00:35:31.980 They're going to have to spend their life there.

00:35:33.880 Spend a few days there in town, drinking your new twins.

00:35:39.420 Take your two twins.

00:35:40.640 Bring your babies and stay for a month.

00:35:43.480 You do it.

00:35:44.560 If it's so safe.

00:35:45.960 Let's see.

00:35:46.500 You do it.

00:35:47.040 Bring your partner.

00:35:48.320 OK, I if I were a mother there, I would be just as outraged as these mothers.

00:35:52.540 And I know you reported on this, that instead of helping them, what's happening?

00:35:57.160 We're sending in these companies that are getting these people to sign waivers before

00:36:01.380 they can get help in testing the air and testing the these people have no idea what they're

00:36:05.760 signing.

00:36:06.040 They just want to get the air tested and the ground tested so that their their pets don't

00:36:10.580 die.

00:36:10.780 Their kids don't die.

00:36:11.500 They don't die.

00:36:12.660 And instead, these sneaky lawyers slip in some sort of a waiver and relief release for

00:36:18.880 these folks before they can get the testing.

00:36:21.540 So can I go over that?

00:36:22.560 Because we were the I had a resident on the show who just happened to say last week that

00:36:30.280 we had to sign a waiver.

00:36:31.340 And I said, what are you talking about?

00:36:32.900 Sign a waiver.

00:36:33.780 And she sent us the photo you're showing now of this waiver that basically indemnifies

00:36:39.080 everybody.

00:36:40.540 If you're a corporation, govern anybody, you're indemnified.

00:36:44.600 OK, it releases your rights.

00:36:46.560 It releases your rights to sue them.

00:36:48.920 Correct.

00:36:49.520 So and that's just we'd like to test the air.

00:36:52.900 We'd like to test the water.

00:36:54.120 But you have to sign this first.

00:36:55.980 And 350 people signed it, thought it was outrageous.

00:37:00.440 J.D. Vance then picks it up the next day and he gets the train company to say, oh, yeah,

00:37:06.820 that's that was a mistake.

00:37:09.500 Mistake.

00:37:10.120 Well, really, it was a mistake.

00:37:13.220 They said that they had just cut and paste.

00:37:15.440 And if I give them way too much benefit of the doubt, you can say, all right, maybe that's

00:37:22.520 something they hand out for all train accidents and it was just there and it shouldn't have

00:37:27.440 been passed out there.

00:37:28.340 But I'm giving them way too much credit.

00:37:30.980 Let's just accept that they are trying to make good for it now, I think, because they

00:37:38.000 were exposed.

00:37:39.080 Exposed and they came out and said, we are not holding anyone, any of the recipients

00:37:46.460 that signed this.

00:37:48.360 It's null and void.

00:37:50.280 We have them on record saying it.

00:37:52.120 They're putting a new one out.

00:37:54.000 They got the signatures.

00:37:54.800 That was absurd.

00:37:55.620 That would never have been upheld in a court of law.

00:37:57.860 It was a disgusting, skeptical play to begin with.

00:38:00.660 I'm glad that they've now been shamed out of doing it to anybody else.

00:38:04.500 But I don't I don't think it's a court in the land that would have upheld those releases

00:38:07.080 against these poor people.

00:38:08.100 But but the fact is, nobody's on the ground running herd for these guys.

00:38:12.200 Like the citizens of East Palestine have been hung out to dry, Glenn, as FEMA is like,

00:38:17.120 well, and we got the EPA there.

00:38:19.860 We don't have the transportation secretary secretary there.

00:38:22.500 Like who's who's in charge of protecting?

00:38:25.260 Well, first of all, DeWine, DeWine's in charge and the state should have just taken control.

00:38:29.280 He should not have waited 17 days.

00:38:31.280 You go in, your people need help.

00:38:33.240 You think do you think Ron DeSantis?

00:38:35.120 I don't understand why governors don't just see what's working and copy it.

00:38:41.560 You know, just copy it.

00:38:43.380 Would Ron DeSantis have sat around with his hands in his pockets for 17 days?

00:38:48.320 No, he would have rolled up his sleeves.

00:38:50.620 He would have been there and he would have solved the problem without the federal government.

00:38:55.020 So and by the way, on the subject of FEMA, DeWine has to ask for FEMA to show up.

00:38:58.520 And apparently he didn't even do that until this week.

00:39:00.800 Yeah.

00:39:01.980 And and that whole thing was a was a crock as well.

00:39:06.280 So you not only have all of these government agencies in bed with the train, by the way, one one of the companies that has a tremendous ESG score is this particular train company, which happens to be owned by.

00:39:22.880 Yeah, it happens to be owned by BlackRock and and all of the big ESG people.

00:39:31.360 So it's in bed with the government through these hedge funds.

00:39:36.400 And I think it's is it H tech?

00:39:39.780 It is.

00:39:40.360 It's the government's chosen air and soil and water monitoring group.

00:39:47.360 And we tried to go get because I said I'd pay for it.

00:39:51.320 I'll pay for air and water for this woman we had on the air.

00:39:54.900 She's like, I just need to know if it's safe.

00:39:57.000 I said I'd pay for it.

00:39:58.560 We couldn't find a group that would go in against the government's group from the EPA.

00:40:05.800 Couldn't find them.

00:40:07.020 And if you could find them, there's still about twenty thousand dollars per piece of property.

00:40:13.960 What's going on?

00:40:14.720 This is scary.

00:40:16.360 And, you know, we had another train derail in Michigan.

00:40:18.500 People are asking questions about all this.

00:40:20.500 Where where's all this infrastructure shoring up that we were supposed to have paid for?

00:40:24.040 Thank you.

00:40:24.740 What else is going to happen?

00:40:26.020 You know, this didn't have to happen.

00:40:27.480 And it's obviously going to cost Norfolk Southern unbelievable amounts of money.

00:40:32.800 But the cleanup is really important.

00:40:34.580 And you take one look at those waters and the film inside of them, not to mention the dead fish.

00:40:40.060 And, you know, this is not something you would want near your home.

00:40:42.880 It would certainly not want your pets, your children or anybody you love anywhere near it.

00:40:47.220 This is a tragedy that we're going to have to get our arms around because, I mean, God only knows how far reaching the implications are.

00:40:54.560 Glenn Beck, it's always a pleasure, my friend.

00:40:56.520 I feel like we come on good ground.

00:40:58.460 Thank you.

00:40:59.020 God bless you.

00:41:00.380 I'll never miss the Glenn Beck show.

00:41:01.920 He's amazing.

00:41:02.720 And he's my he's my neighbor here on Sirius XM.

00:41:05.280 So if you don't hear it via podcast, listen to him live on Sirius XM to Triumph Channel 111.

00:41:10.820 Up next, a never before heard story about just how distraught New York Times reporters and staffers were about Tom Cotton's 2020 op-ed during the George Floyd protests.

00:41:21.920 There were crying struggle sessions and backstabbing like you would not believe.

00:41:26.840 Guess who my next guest is?

00:41:28.620 It's my executive producer, Steve Krakauer.

00:41:31.260 Technically, he's got the week off.

00:41:33.160 He's promoting a new book that he's just written about the disgusting media.

00:41:36.820 And we're his first stop on the media tour.

00:41:39.820 So it's going to be fun.

00:41:40.560 We're going to get into behind the scenes stories about the show, about the media, about all of it.

00:41:45.020 Don't miss that.

00:41:50.100 Joining me now, Steve Krakauer.

00:41:52.300 He skipped work today, but for a very good reason.

00:41:55.320 He's our executive producer and he is also a media critic.

00:41:59.180 And he is now sharing his extensive knowledge with you in his brand new book called Uncovered.

00:42:05.760 It's got a nice look.

00:42:06.920 I like that.

00:42:07.600 I like the cover of it.

00:42:09.700 It looks good.

00:42:10.880 I'm just kind of taking it in right now for the first time, Steve.

00:42:14.040 It's called Uncovered, How the Media Got Cozy with Power, Abandoned Its Principles, and Lost the People.

00:42:20.820 Steve Krakauer, welcome to The Megyn Kelly Show.

00:42:22.880 Thanks so much, Megyn.

00:42:23.960 It's great to be here.

00:42:25.220 I've enjoyed the whole beginning of the show and now I get to come on.

00:42:28.420 This is great.

00:42:29.280 How do you feel the team is doing without you?

00:42:31.920 Well, I think overall, very good.

00:42:33.960 Very good.

00:42:34.880 Excellent.

00:42:35.200 I'm enjoying it.

00:42:36.580 I'm not on comms here, so it's a totally different experience to enjoy the show just as a fan.

00:42:42.260 Yeah, when you're on comms, you can hear all the behind the scenes.

00:42:44.720 Oh, shit.

00:42:45.580 Oh, no.

00:42:46.840 That's the chaos behind the presentation.

00:42:49.580 I'm sure there was some of that.

00:42:50.360 Which Steve is normally at the helm of.

00:42:51.720 So it's great to have you.

00:42:53.040 And I love, love, love this book.

00:42:54.660 I blurbed it.

00:42:55.500 I believed in it.

00:42:56.240 I saw an early copy of it.

00:42:57.780 And I've always loved you as a media critic.

00:42:59.640 It's one of the things that made me reach out to you when we were getting ready to launch

00:43:03.240 this show.

00:43:04.260 And the job was never offered to anybody other than you.

00:43:06.600 You were the person I wanted.

00:43:07.740 You're the person I got for good reason.

00:43:09.320 Because you've always been very sensible when it comes to covering the news.

00:43:12.560 You did a stint at CNN.

00:43:14.100 You did a stint at The Blaze.

00:43:15.280 You've been somebody who's seen how the media has worked from the inside, from the underbelly

00:43:20.300 for many, many years.

00:43:21.280 And your conclusion is you love it, but it's disgusting.

00:43:25.180 Yeah, thank you.

00:43:26.040 Yeah.

00:43:26.220 No, and I think actually you and I share a lot.

00:43:29.380 I think we agree on most things.

00:43:31.140 We disagree on some.

00:43:31.920 But I think with the media in particular, especially over the last few years, I would say, you know,

00:43:36.780 2016, 2017.

00:43:38.320 But you and I started talking about it 2018, 2019, 2020, as we were talking about launching

00:43:42.820 the show.

00:43:43.260 I think we really see it the same.

00:43:45.320 And that is that I think in a perfect world, there would be strong institutional press.

00:43:51.180 And there will also be great independent upstarts.

00:43:54.160 But right now, as we've seen in poll after poll, including last week with Gallup, it's

00:43:58.500 at all-time lows in terms of trust in the media by the general public and with good reason.

00:44:03.120 I mean, the media really has not earned the trust of the public and continues to do so

00:44:07.140 to this day.

00:44:07.720 I thought on one hand, oh, maybe Trump's out of office.

00:44:10.660 Things start to go in a better direction.

00:44:12.180 It's actually, I think, gotten worse in some significant ways since 2021.

00:44:16.300 And you and I on the outside in independent press are really, I think, carving a new lane.

00:44:22.020 And that's part of the reason why the media is losing so much trust is because they have

00:44:25.240 these additional outlets now to find real coverage and to not be treated the way that

00:44:30.600 they are by the corporate press today.

00:44:32.120 Yes.

00:44:33.100 Well, the Trump hangover remains, even though Trump himself is no longer in office.

00:44:36.860 But then came COVID, which I think did, if not, you know, at least as much, if not more,

00:44:44.160 to destroy the relationship of trust between the media and the general public.

00:44:48.100 And we know we know it was dishonest as opposed to just sincerely misguided coverage because

00:44:53.600 they never went back and corrected any of their mistakes on COVID.

00:44:56.400 They're still telling us that we should wear masks.

00:44:58.000 Exactly.

00:44:59.060 I think I talk about COVID a lot in Uncovered.

00:45:01.900 And part of the reason is, as you say, in the early days of the pandemic, March, April,

00:45:07.180 May 2020, I get it.

00:45:09.260 You know, it was a totally new thing.

00:45:10.720 People are going to be scared.

00:45:13.420 They're not going to know how to cover this.

00:45:14.920 They're going to rely on certain sources.

00:45:16.540 I talked to Josh Rogan about the way science writers were corrupted.

00:45:19.860 And then, you know, the press just trusted the science writers.

00:45:22.480 They must know what they're talking about.

00:45:23.560 No, they're corrupted too.

00:45:24.580 So I get it maybe early on.

00:45:26.520 But then, as you mentioned, a total lack of introspection, no accountability, going back,

00:45:31.700 correcting the record.

00:45:32.640 And in fact, as you say, 2023, we're still getting stories that are completely, you know,

00:45:38.580 the term that the media loves to use, misinformation related to COVID.

00:45:42.040 And this is not something that I write a lot in the book about stories that are kind of funny

00:45:46.100 and a little bit fun.

00:45:47.640 But this is really serious.

00:45:49.440 And the media had a real responsibility here.

00:45:51.620 You would think that they would drop some of the bad habits they have when it comes

00:45:56.260 to COVID.

00:45:57.060 But instead, all of those habits were there and gotten worse, as you mentioned, a hangover

00:46:01.560 from the Trump era.

00:46:02.620 And it's really damaging.

00:46:03.980 I mean, I think that really harmed people to this day who now think something about COVID

00:46:08.540 that is not true.

00:46:10.320 You have there's a great soundbite of your interview because you taped your interviews

00:46:12.880 with these anchors and people you only took on the record interviews, which is great.

00:46:17.160 It's one of your complaints valid about a lot of the media coverage because that's how they

00:46:21.540 get away with it.

00:46:22.180 A lot of these smear jobs are just absolutely insane, where they just get all these unnamed

00:46:26.140 sources to just go on the record and say whatever thing bad they want about Trump, about whomever.

00:46:30.880 So you get Josh Rogan.

00:46:32.100 He reports for The Washington Post.

00:46:33.520 He's such an honest broker.

00:46:34.840 And he's been leading the way on the COVID reporting from the start.

00:46:38.320 Honest reporting, not afraid to cover anything.

00:46:41.800 And it's great because he works for The Washington Post.

00:46:43.640 So that interview is on tape.

00:46:45.360 And I thought it was actually really interesting because he talks about how we're going to play a

00:46:48.000 bit.

00:46:49.400 He was censored, even as a Washington Post reporter.

00:46:53.200 And what he realized through the experience was that people are dumb.

00:46:57.140 They're just they're kind of it's not necessarily this mass conspiracy.

00:47:00.000 You also argue this in your book, Uncovered.

00:47:02.600 But people are dumb.

00:47:03.880 The people in charge of the levers of access to their print pages or to their networks don't

00:47:09.500 tend to be very smart like Josh Rogan is.

00:47:11.860 Here's here's a listen to SOT 18.

00:47:12.960 The reason that the media got this so wrong is complicated, but it involves two sort of,

00:47:19.440 again, institutional biases.

00:47:22.380 One was amongst the science writers and the you know, when the pandemic hits, of course,

00:47:26.520 you know, we rely on the science writers.

00:47:28.720 There's a whole field of journalism dedicated to science writing.

00:47:31.160 They must know the most about it.

00:47:32.740 This is their moment to shine.

00:47:33.720 It's the once in a lifetime pandemic.

00:47:35.240 And these are the people that are smartest on this issue.

00:47:37.720 And what a lot of people in political journalism and national security journalism didn't realize

00:47:43.840 was that, oh, the science writers were totally, totally misled by their main sources, who

00:47:50.580 are the leaders of these scientific institutions like the NIH and NIAID and all of the USA and

00:47:55.480 all these institutions that, you know, if you're covering them as an independent journalist

00:47:59.920 that you're supposed to be overseeing, in a sense, you're supposed to be looking at

00:48:03.000 with a skeptical eye.

00:48:03.880 But these science writers were all captured because these were their best sources.

00:48:07.080 And in the world of science writing, that's actually fairly common.

00:48:11.060 Of course, it's common in the world of national security writing and political writing, too.

00:48:14.260 But for some reason, a lot of people thought all these science writers were above all that.

00:48:18.100 Turns out they're not.

00:48:21.220 Yeah.

00:48:22.080 Yeah.

00:48:22.580 And as you mentioned, Josh talking about the censorship that he saw, he reveals for the

00:48:28.220 first time in my book, we had him on when he wrote his book about China and the influence

00:48:32.600 that it had on so many different areas of our country and the world.

00:48:38.120 And in particular, he spent a lot of time on COVID.

00:48:40.640 An excerpt from that was published in Politico, and it was censored by Facebook.

00:48:44.900 I mean, it was essentially taken down.

00:48:46.120 And he would email Facebook, hey, what's going on?

00:48:48.160 This is a legitimate story.

00:48:49.760 And then they'd put it back up.

00:48:50.700 And then they'd take it down.

00:48:51.500 And they'd put it back up.

00:48:52.220 And he realized in that interaction that I am a respectable journalist.

00:48:57.980 I have access to the people who run Facebook.

00:49:00.480 I can ask them, why is my thing getting taken down?

00:49:02.720 And it can get put back up, even if it has to take a few times.

00:49:05.920 What about the average American who doesn't have that sort of access?

00:49:08.940 What about the average American who's maybe saying similar things to what I'm writing,

00:49:12.740 but getting censored or getting completely kicked off a platform and having no recourse for it?

00:49:17.800 And as you mentioned, yes, the people in charge, they're not journalists.

00:49:20.920 And they're not even particularly good at their job of censoring.

00:49:24.340 And these are the people that are in charge and have real power these days in these social

00:49:28.020 media platforms, Twitter, Facebook, and elsewhere, to shape the narrative.

00:49:32.600 And that's exactly what they did with COVID.

00:49:34.840 Yes, exactly.

00:49:35.560 And we experienced some of this ourselves when we had on RFK Jr., Robert F. Kennedy Jr.

00:49:41.300 And we had one goal because he'd been deplatformed by virtually all the social media companies.

00:49:46.420 He couldn't get an interview on virtually any platform.

00:49:49.300 He lamented on our show how he couldn't get on Joe Rogan, and Joe Rogan's put on people

00:49:53.300 like Dr. Malone.

00:49:54.680 But RFK Jr. was, he said, a bridge too far.

00:49:57.560 And we had to game plan this out for quite a bit to make sure, like our one goal was to

00:50:02.720 get him on the air and to not have him be deplatformed anywhere.

00:50:07.080 And we did it.

00:50:08.080 Right.

00:50:08.680 It was something that we talked so much about was, A, doing the interview with Robert F.

00:50:14.020 Kennedy Jr., which I think is a point number one.

00:50:16.620 But also, how does this live?

00:50:18.520 And we are, just like Josh Rogan, lucky, I guess, to have access to people at YouTube,

00:50:23.580 great people at YouTube who help us navigate these waters that don't really necessarily

00:50:29.580 make a lot of sense.

00:50:30.520 But at the same time, we're not going to sacrifice the editorial in order to have something live

00:50:36.280 on YouTube.

00:50:36.620 But if there are ways of going about it so that more audience can find it, then that's

00:50:41.480 how we want to do it.

00:50:42.640 That's how we want to make sure that we can find as much audience as possible.

00:50:45.920 So it's a couple of steps, right?

00:50:48.280 The idea of even having someone like RFK on to talk about, to talk freely.

00:50:54.080 I mean, we had him on for four hours.

00:50:56.080 It was a two-part interview.

00:50:57.280 I believe it was our only two-part interview that we've ever published.

00:51:01.020 And it was so important because no one, we should be a platform for anyone, for any sort

00:51:07.080 of conversations.

00:51:07.820 Now, it shouldn't be unchecked.

00:51:09.480 I think that's a big difference between us and some of the other bigger podcast platforms

00:51:12.820 that do have on people like an RFK.

00:51:15.460 It's just sort of out there freely.

00:51:17.320 It gets censored, maybe.

00:51:18.380 And the audience is the worst for it.

00:51:22.140 But by putting it out there, by fact-checking when appropriate, by letting him say his views,

00:51:26.760 but also showing other views, the audience is really served.

00:51:30.980 And it's really rare in today's media to go that in depth, to have someone like him on.

00:51:36.600 Yeah.

00:51:37.000 You know why?

00:51:37.540 Well, first of all, it's ideological for many, but second of all, it required a shit

00:51:40.720 ton of work.

00:51:42.220 And journalists tend to be lazy.

00:51:44.000 Not all, but many, most, I would even say, are lazy.

00:51:47.160 That RFK interview took all of us forever.

00:51:50.540 Debbie Murphy, Canadian Debbie, worked so hard on all those fact checks, calling all these

00:51:54.580 doctors, calling everybody.

00:51:55.880 Like, we're not doctors.

00:51:57.200 How are we going to, you know, I'm a lawyer, but I'm not an environmental lawyer.

00:52:00.380 How are we going to fact-check RFK, who knows so much?

00:52:03.560 And a lot of the viewers would listen to the fact-checks and they said, you know, he disagreed

00:52:06.500 with all your fact-checks.

00:52:07.620 And that's great.

00:52:09.040 That's totally fine by me.

00:52:10.380 In no way are we like, you must believe us.

00:52:12.580 We just want the audience to know, here's a counterpoint to that.

00:52:15.340 You know, you guys are smart enough to make up your own minds.

00:52:17.560 Exactly.

00:52:18.040 And he would counter that.

00:52:19.840 Look, he shared it as a positive experience for him as well.

00:52:23.100 And that means a lot too.

00:52:24.140 You know, if he shared it and he hated it, but we felt confident in it, that'd be fine

00:52:28.060 also.

00:52:28.400 But the fact is, he's someone who's open-minded, wants a free flowing exchange of ideas.

00:52:32.920 And you're right.

00:52:33.340 So much of the media is, there's real laziness there, like any occupation.

00:52:37.880 There are, if you had a plumber, you'd have some plumbers who are really good at their

00:52:41.720 job.

00:52:42.000 Maybe they'd get good Yelp reviews.

00:52:43.340 You'd have some plumbers who are bad at their job.

00:52:44.980 Some that are kind of lazy, they'd get bad Yelp reviews.

00:52:47.180 And we could kind of weed out who the best ones are.

00:52:49.440 In journalism, it doesn't work like that at all.

00:52:51.220 In fact, it's almost the opposite.

00:52:52.400 A lot of times, the laziest and most incompetent journalists are the ones that get rewarded the

00:52:56.780 most.

00:52:57.720 And that's really unfortunate.

00:52:59.900 But-

00:53:00.060 We already talked about Don Lemon.

00:53:01.600 I don't know if we have more to say about Don Lemon.

00:53:03.900 I know he's, you gave him a lot of homework.

00:53:06.540 So I'm not sure he's going to be very busy at his retreat.

00:53:10.120 I'm sure he's off in his little recovery camp doing his homework right now.

00:53:13.080 Well, let's put a pin in him for one second.

00:53:14.660 Because two things.

00:53:17.260 The RFK Jr. episodes that we're referring to are episodes 282 and 283 came back on.

00:53:22.300 But those ones that we were talking about, number 282 and 283, well worth your time.

00:53:26.620 If you've ever taken a long drive or what have you, you'll learn a lot.

00:53:29.520 And you'll love the guy.

00:53:30.740 My God, what a classy, lovely man.

00:53:32.480 Definitely.

00:53:33.680 Okay.

00:53:33.960 But secondly, so COVID, Trump, certain things that drive the media crazy that you're not

00:53:38.640 allowed to touch.

00:53:39.500 You cannot have a heterodox view on COVID.

00:53:42.600 Otherwise, you're a misinformation purveyor.

00:53:44.440 And of course, these third rail issues are in that category too, like Black Lives Matter,

00:53:50.940 like George Floyd and the protests that happened.

00:53:53.440 And this leads me to some great, interesting, exclusive reporting you have in Uncovered,

00:53:58.400 the book, about the meltdown, the absolute, we knew that there was a meltdown at the New

00:54:04.940 York Times when they published that Tom Cotton, Senator Tom Cotton op-ed on using the National

00:54:10.280 Guard to control the national protests that were going on that were getting people killed

00:54:13.460 largely in black and brown communities.

00:54:16.800 That's what he wanted.

00:54:18.120 But there was a meltdown within the New York Times newsroom.

00:54:20.700 You've gotten some new details that show us just how next level it was.

00:54:24.140 Yeah, this was really an incredible story.

00:54:25.640 And I think, as you mentioned, everyone is on the record in this interview, is in the

00:54:29.660 book.

00:54:30.040 Sean McCreish, who was a New York Times opinion staffer, now works at New York Magazine, was

00:54:34.300 very candid about what happened internally at the New York Times.

00:54:37.460 This is in chapter 10 of the book.

00:54:38.700 And yes, we saw this sort of play out publicly, in fact, on Twitter.

00:54:44.100 It was a bunch of New York Times staffers said, publishing this op-ed by Tom Cotton puts the

00:54:48.880 lives of black New York Times staffers in danger, which really was sort of a way of putting a real

00:54:54.500 pressure campaign on their own bosses to take some real action here and action they got.

00:55:01.100 But this was playing out internally as well.

00:55:03.200 And Sean describes these internal, first of all, the Slack channels were on fire.

00:55:07.820 Of course, everyone was just at each other.

00:55:10.980 This was playing out on these Zoom meetings.

00:55:13.760 This was in the height of the pandemic, June of 2020.

00:55:16.600 Everyone's at home, got a lot of time on their hands, a lot of time spending on Twitter and

00:55:21.260 just getting all riled up.

00:55:22.880 Staffers crying on these meetings, saying that their friends won't talk to them.

00:55:26.820 This is what Sean told me about what happened.

00:55:29.080 And then we saw the fallout.

00:55:30.640 And this was really, I think, why I spend so much time on this story and the book, is

00:55:35.080 it's a really pivotal moment, I think, in the media for a couple of reasons.

00:55:39.640 First of all, the fact that lower level staffers at the New York Times could do this campaign

00:55:47.860 publicly and force out the head of the opinion section, James Bennett, and cause other changes.

00:55:54.560 In fact, one of the changes I write about is that it used to be called op-eds.

00:55:57.740 Now it's called guest essays.

00:55:59.240 This was directly as a fallout of this, right?

00:56:01.680 We need to have more distance between these people who we allow in our pages.

00:56:05.760 So the fact that the kids run the newsroom these days, that's really telling, even at

00:56:09.500 the New York Times.

00:56:10.600 But also, we're talking about a column, pretty benign column, by a senator, a guy, by the

00:56:17.200 way, Tom Cotton, who this is his third New York Times op-ed.

00:56:20.160 He had already written two op-eds.

00:56:21.380 This was just his third one, but apparently the most controversial.

00:56:23.580 The fact that that puts lives in danger, and not just activists saying that, but journalists

00:56:29.700 saying that, that shows us exactly where we are in the media.

00:56:33.240 That is a real low moment for the press, and something that I think has real ramifications

00:56:37.640 for the future.

00:56:39.200 We talked about this last week when I was in, the show was in Vegas.

00:56:42.500 I had a speech that I was giving out there, so we moved the show out there for a couple

00:56:45.340 of days.

00:56:46.040 It is a good sign that the New York Times didn't go the same route on this trans pushback,

00:56:50.280 because they offered, you know, I would say it's like almost fair coverage.

00:56:55.460 It was certainly not anti-giving kids hormones and anti-doing surgeries on young kids like

00:57:00.900 you'd hear on this program or on some of the more right-wing programs, but it was kind of

00:57:06.100 exploring some of the downsides of that in recent months.

00:57:09.600 And the meltdown from the far-left activist crowd and the trans representatives, who honestly,

00:57:15.240 as you've heard me say many times, have the worst representatives, was epic.

00:57:19.680 But the Times stood its ground this time.

00:57:22.360 It is really notable also.

00:57:24.640 Yeah, I agree.

00:57:25.560 I mean, they did some reporting.

00:57:27.520 That's basically what they did.

00:57:28.720 They weren't drawing conclusions.

00:57:29.860 They did a little bit of reporting on this issue.

00:57:31.620 They've certainly done reporting on the other side of the issue, where this is a great thing.

00:57:35.940 So yes, and they stood their ground.

00:57:37.820 I think that does show that the pendulum's shifting the other direction.

00:57:40.360 Look, as bad as the press has been in the past, and I've obviously written a lot in the

00:57:44.560 book about it, I end with, I think, some optimism and some potential solutions.

00:57:48.340 And I do think the fact that the New York Times stood its ground and actually sort of castigated

00:57:52.340 its own staff for saying, you're not allowed to sign this letter.

00:57:55.040 This is activism that you're doing.

00:57:57.320 That's a total polar opposite change from the way that they acted during 2020 and the

00:58:02.280 Tom Cotton at bed.

00:58:03.020 Now, it is a slightly different issue.

00:58:04.520 So perhaps that weighed into this a little bit.

00:58:07.220 I think that if you look at polling, the Times is much more on the side of the public here

00:58:12.060 than, and I would say the Democratic Party, than the average Democratic voter, than maybe

00:58:18.940 during some of the racial coverage.

00:58:21.060 But I do think it's encouraging.

00:58:22.560 And I hope that is a sign of things to come.

00:58:24.920 Because again, this is not asking that much.

00:58:26.560 It's just saying, stand by your own fair reporting, just some reporting, and don't give

00:58:32.200 into these loudest activists on Twitter.

00:58:35.080 I mean, it's fascinating to think about a news organization getting credit for pushing

00:58:40.000 back on its journalists, becoming open activists.

00:58:42.700 That used to be the standard.

00:58:44.300 You used to not be able to do that at all.

00:58:46.900 And that leads me to CNN and Jeff Zucker's destruction of it.

00:58:52.500 I mean, he destroyed that organization.

00:58:54.600 And I have nothing against Jeff Zucker personally, honestly.

00:58:56.600 Like, I have no personal beef with this guy.

00:58:58.360 But I watched what he did from the outside.

00:59:00.600 He took a once great news organization, or at least good, and completely ruined it because

00:59:05.940 he had a personal beef with Trump, because he wanted to see Trump brought down.

00:59:10.040 And he turned, he turned somebody like an Anderson Cooper or a Wolf Blitzer, completely previously

00:59:16.920 anodyne news anchors, into activists that people started to loathe.

00:59:21.600 Who could loathe Wolf Blitzer?

00:59:23.800 Well, if you listen to him night after night, he could bore you to tears.

00:59:26.360 But he couldn't drive you to have actual tears because of his outrageous opinions.

00:59:30.480 But he got there, not to mention Lemon and Cuomo and Breonna Keillor and half the other

00:59:37.040 daytime crew that's now been demoted.

00:59:38.960 I know.

00:59:39.460 But Don Lemon would be in that category, I would say, with Anderson Cooper and Wolf Blitzer,

00:59:44.380 of as late as maybe early 2016, was a pretty normal news anchor.

00:59:50.240 I mean, he had some sort of flourishes to himself, I think.

00:59:54.240 But at least he was generally kind of curious.

00:59:56.860 He was generally sort of, I don't know if I'd say introspective, but he at least kind

01:00:02.360 of didn't take himself too seriously.

01:00:04.180 That completely shifted during the Trump era and was encouraged to shift during the Trump

01:00:09.160 era because of Jeff Zucker's direction.

01:00:11.580 Now, I worked at CNN.

01:00:12.840 I worked at CNN with Jeff Zucker very closely.

01:00:14.880 I write about it in Chapter 6 of Uncovered.

01:00:16.720 And I think that there was this idea that Jeff had that I sort of disagreed with, but that

01:00:22.220 there was one big story.

01:00:24.340 And in 2013, when I worked there, that big story might have been the Boston bombing.

01:00:28.780 And we spent a lot of time covering that.

01:00:30.840 It just put all of our resources towards that.

01:00:33.300 That's the only thing we're covering today.

01:00:34.660 I mean, not the only, but that's basically how we thought about it.

01:00:37.060 And then there would be stories like the poop cruise or maybe the missing plane that maybe

01:00:40.500 people attacked a little bit more.

01:00:42.180 But we're going to put all of our resources to it.

01:00:44.720 We need one story.

01:00:45.920 People only kind of tune in and out.

01:00:47.640 We need to put everything behind it.

01:00:49.180 And during those things, there are some journalistic credibility to it.

01:00:52.240 And then Trump ran for office.

01:00:54.100 And in the primary, the one big story was this phenomenon.

01:00:57.240 He got attacked from the other side for showing the empty podium, for airing Trump rallies

01:01:02.880 without any interruption and not doing it for any other candidate.

01:01:05.200 And by the way, before you go on, why did he do that?

01:01:07.640 Why did CNN do that?

01:01:09.340 Money.

01:01:09.880 I mean, it's ratings.

01:01:10.960 Ratings.

01:01:11.800 Totally.

01:01:12.620 Right.

01:01:12.960 It was good for business.

01:01:14.400 And Jeff Zucker was at Trump's wedding in 2005.

01:01:17.920 And he was a very, I mean, you could thank Donald Trump for Jeff Zucker's rise at NBC.

01:01:22.540 In fact, that's been written.

01:01:23.440 I write about it in the book that Jeff and Trump were so connected because of Celebrity

01:01:28.360 Apprentice.

01:01:28.900 And it was this huge hit for Jeff Zucker when he was in NBC.

01:01:31.580 So there's a personal connection there in addition to the business side of it.

01:01:35.000 And then he becomes the nominee and things start to shift.

01:01:38.620 And then he wins, shocking everyone.

01:01:40.960 I mean, even when he was the nominee, I think there was a sense of, well, he's definitely

01:01:44.060 going to lose to Hillary.

01:01:45.020 Everyone in the newsroom thought that.

01:01:46.360 And then he shocks the entire newsroom and wins.

01:01:49.300 And then it's war.

01:01:50.440 And Trump's welcomed that war.

01:01:52.240 I mean, the enemy of the people and fake news.

01:01:55.060 And he made CNN this punching bag.

01:01:57.140 And CNN was happy to oblige.

01:01:59.800 And this is really where I think things went off the rails.

01:02:03.180 Because I think that there were some people at CNN who believed they were in this existential

01:02:08.480 fight for democracy and that this was this giant moment.

01:02:13.840 And some people probably didn't believe that.

01:02:15.060 They thought, OK, this is good for business.

01:02:16.900 But the people that believed that, instead of what they decided to do, OK, we're in this

01:02:21.640 existential fight.

01:02:23.220 So we need to sort of drop our principles and standards or lower them because this is too

01:02:28.620 big.

01:02:29.080 We have to just go and attack Trump because the stakes are too large.

01:02:34.220 When I would say, if you really believe that, I don't think that we were certainly in an

01:02:38.200 existential crisis.

01:02:38.880 But if you really believe that that was the threat, then that's when you double down on

01:02:42.600 your standards.

01:02:43.400 That's when you say, we're going to even hold ourselves to even higher standards because

01:02:46.920 the audience, if we want to make sure the audience understands this threat, we need

01:02:50.240 to make sure they trust us.

01:02:51.700 So they went the opposite direction.

01:02:53.540 It was a complete failure.

01:02:54.780 And now the new administration over at CNN is trying to dig themselves out of this giant

01:02:58.560 hole that they found themselves in.

01:03:00.040 Yeah, you're exactly right.

01:03:01.120 I'll give you one example.

01:03:02.220 Back during the Obamacare years, Barack Obama, if you like your plan, you can keep your plan.

01:03:07.000 If you like your doctor, you can keep your doctor.

01:03:08.880 I was on the air every day during that whole thing, and we knew it wasn't true.

01:03:13.540 And never once did I call it a lie, right?

01:03:17.000 I bent over backwards to not attribute motive to his misstatements, excuse me, until it came

01:03:23.740 out that he knew it was untrue and he was saying it, and he intentionally misled.

01:03:28.040 That came out as a news report years after Obamacare had been passed.

01:03:31.660 And then I started calling it a lie.

01:03:33.060 But that's what it took to use the L word, right?

01:03:35.960 Right back, contrast that with what CNN did to Trump.

01:03:39.320 You undermine your, you don't need to say he's a sexist pig.

01:03:44.120 He's a racist jerk.

01:03:45.560 He's a liar.

01:03:46.360 Whoever you're talking about, could be Trump, could be Obama, could be anybody.

01:03:49.420 You just need to give them the facts to let them decide.

01:03:53.420 It has the total opposite effect.

01:03:55.340 You're totally right.

01:03:55.980 But by you covering it, Obamacare, that way, it gives more credibility and more trust in

01:04:01.560 the public, especially, I would say, independents and maybe people on the left who are watching

01:04:05.480 Fox News, and there are a lot of them at the time.

01:04:07.900 That gives them more credibility.

01:04:09.660 For CNN, if they, again, really believe that this is what Donald Trump is, that he's this

01:04:14.200 liar, that he's this racist, then show me.

01:04:16.640 Don't tell me.

01:04:17.600 And if you did, I think they actually might have had more of an effect.

01:04:20.600 And again, this is not just CNN.

01:04:22.020 This was happening everywhere.

01:04:23.600 The Washington Post, I mean, just as soon as they put democracy dies in darkness on

01:04:27.900 the front of the cover, it was over for them.

01:04:30.160 I mean, it was just a total failure.

01:04:32.580 And this happened across the spectrum with the press.

01:04:34.820 It had the opposite effect of what they were intending, and they never learned their lesson.

01:04:38.920 And they still don't learn their lesson.

01:04:40.480 I mean, obviously, Trump's running again.

01:04:42.020 We'll see how that pans out.

01:04:43.400 But they have learned seemingly very, very little from the mistakes that they made and the

01:04:48.020 credibility that they lost over these last five to seven years.

01:04:50.640 Mm-hmm.

01:04:52.020 The, they're in the news today is something about this guy, Wajahat Ali, who's a commentator

01:04:57.060 on MSNBC.

01:04:58.300 And you were the person who first called attention to his segment on CNN with Don Lemon.

01:05:05.160 That's now, and Rick, uh, Wilson, Wilson.

01:05:08.780 Yeah.

01:05:09.080 Yeah.

01:05:09.340 Great guy.

01:05:09.600 Of the Lincoln Project.

01:05:11.820 Sneering at Trump voters.

01:05:13.840 And I'll tell you, you know, but I'll tell the audience what Wajahat Ali is saying today

01:05:17.260 about Nikki Haley in a second.

01:05:18.300 But he's up to his old tricks, suffice it to say.

01:05:21.560 Uh, so he went on CNN with Don Lemon, and this clip, perhaps more than any other that

01:05:26.360 you watched and you tweeted out totally viral, encapsulates the failure of CNN, the destruction

01:05:33.340 of CNN, the self-destruction of CNN that caused so many people such, just disgust as they

01:05:39.560 watched it.

01:05:40.440 Uh, hold on a second.

01:05:41.420 Do we have it?

01:05:41.980 What's, what's soundbite is it?

01:05:43.760 All right, here it is.

01:05:44.540 Sat four.

01:05:45.620 Here it is.

01:05:46.580 Donald Trump couldn't find Ukraine on a map if you had the letter U and a picture of an

01:05:50.220 actual physical crane next to it.

01:05:52.620 He knows that this is, you know, an, an administration defined by ignorance of the world.

01:05:57.540 And so that's partly him playing to their base and playing to their audience.

01:06:02.420 Uh, you know, the, the, the credulous boomer Rube demo that backs Donald Trump, um, that,

01:06:08.280 that wants to think that, that, that Donald Trump's a smart one in there.

01:06:11.720 Oh, y'all, y'all elitists are dumb.

01:06:14.660 You will, you elitist with your geography and your maps and your spelling, even though my

01:06:20.080 math and you're reading.

01:06:21.560 Yeah.

01:06:21.820 You're reading, you know, your geography, no one, other countries, sipping your latte,

01:06:28.020 all those lines on the map.

01:06:32.400 Only the melitists know where Ukraine is.

01:06:35.760 Oh my God.

01:06:36.520 He's there's all such jerks.

01:06:38.440 Don Lemon's crying.

01:06:39.500 He's laughing so hard.

01:06:40.740 It was an amazing clip.

01:06:42.260 I was reliving it.

01:06:43.500 So that was a 10 50 at night, uh, on a Saturday night during the impeachment hearings that were

01:06:49.640 going on.

01:06:49.980 And don't ask me why I was watching CNN at 10.

01:06:52.140 You were literally the only person.

01:06:53.540 That's why you found it.

01:06:54.900 I know I was watching it and I was shocked by it.

01:06:57.860 And I, I, I, at the time I remember saying someone else is going to cover this.

01:07:01.700 I'm just going to just move on.

01:07:03.600 And then the next night, 24 hours later, nothing had happened.

01:07:06.360 And it was sticking with me.

01:07:08.360 I mean, I could not get it out of my head because it wasn't an attack on Donald Trump.

01:07:11.860 It was an attack on half the country.

01:07:14.120 And it was so gross, not just, you know, the laughing and the accents and, and it just,

01:07:21.220 it, it bothered me so much.

01:07:22.420 So I put it out by the next morning, Donald Trump had shared it himself and, and it just,

01:07:28.180 it just went completely viral.

01:07:29.320 Don Lemon had to sort of apologize for it the next night saying, Oh, I actually didn't really

01:07:34.160 know what they were saying.

01:07:35.160 I just started laughing.

01:07:36.160 I didn't hear it.

01:07:36.560 Yeah.

01:07:37.000 It was just, you know, total bullshit.

01:07:38.600 So I, it, it, it stuck with me forever.

01:07:41.200 And when I tweeted out, I said, you know, if Donald Trump is to win this year, this is

01:07:45.280 why.

01:07:45.900 And, and obviously he almost did win and it's just, it encapsulates the media, it encapsulates

01:07:51.040 the moment, it encapsulates CNN and yeah.

01:07:53.820 And watch Adali, obviously too.

01:07:56.120 This is, I'm looking this up.

01:07:57.620 This is why, okay.

01:07:59.720 I'll stand by.

01:08:00.220 Um, I couldn't believe it when CNN last week after Don Lemon comes out and says women are

01:08:08.120 past their prime when there may be four, like maybe 40, definitely twenties and thirties

01:08:11.680 you're prime.

01:08:12.580 Maybe you could reach 40 and still be prime, but definitely not after.

01:08:16.620 And Chris Licht, who's now the new president of CNN, this is according to, uh, you know,

01:08:21.480 the reports on it, got this from media, says at a town hall meeting, Licht reportedly

01:08:26.480 said that if saying stupid things becomes a trend for Lemon, then there will be recourse.

01:08:34.480 And I tweeted out, if, if, has, I realize he only took over about a year ago, but there's

01:08:41.820 a history here.

01:08:42.860 Hello.

01:08:43.580 Hello, McFly.

01:08:45.380 Yeah.

01:08:46.040 Don Lemon has, I'm always reminded of this amazing profile of Don Lemon.

01:08:51.900 You've got to go back and see it.

01:08:52.900 It's in GQ.

01:08:53.500 I think it's 2015, 2016, right before Trump.

01:08:56.620 And it starts with this amazing anecdote where he's having lunch with the reporter and for

01:09:02.100 dessert, he says, I'll have some sorbet.

01:09:04.620 And, uh, and the reporter says, oh, you mean like sorbet?

01:09:07.200 And he goes, no, no, it's called sorbet.

01:09:08.540 And then he, and he calls the waiter over.

01:09:10.020 It's called sorbet.

01:09:10.820 Right.

01:09:11.000 And he's like, sir, it's sorbet.

01:09:12.540 And he's like, oh, well, you learned something new.

01:09:14.360 It's like, look, I, and, and that's the nice Don Lemon.

01:09:16.880 That's when he was curious and sort of fun.

01:09:18.800 Uh, no, he, he spent, he spent years saying stupid things and, and more importantly, offensive

01:09:24.120 things, I think to, to so many people, including, I would imagine CNN viewers that it's, it is

01:09:31.060 amazing.

01:09:31.520 Although he has been, of course, relegated to the morning show at this point in theory,

01:09:35.340 I guess he's back tomorrow.

01:09:36.340 We'll see how that goes.

01:09:37.280 It does not seem like, he seems like the old regime more than perhaps anyone right

01:09:41.640 now who's left at CNN.

01:09:43.020 And I can't imagine.

01:09:43.740 Do you think he's going to survive this?

01:09:44.840 I would be surprised if there's a long-term plan where Don Lemon is the, the star of the

01:09:51.080 morning show, uh, for, for CNN or the star of any element of, of, of CNN.

01:09:55.600 I, it just, he seems so representative of what they're trying to get out of now.

01:10:01.260 And I don't have reporting on this, but it certainly feels like Don is, it, what would

01:10:09.100 be the purpose of it?

01:10:09.980 What, what, what the ratings are horrible for the morning show.

01:10:13.360 He's only making news in the most negative ways possible.

01:10:16.300 He's bringing down two, I would say pretty good journalists and Caitlin Collins and Poppy

01:10:20.740 Harlow, you know, mileage may vary on that.

01:10:22.680 Uh, but what is the point of it?

01:10:25.060 I, I, I can't imagine it's a long-term fit.

01:10:27.020 I, I've been critical of, of some of how, uh, like Poppy and Caitlin have handled this,

01:10:33.000 but I like them and I do think they have potential and I think they're solid in terms of their,

01:10:37.220 their earnest.

01:10:37.820 And I think given the chance they, they will develop into strong morning hosts or at least

01:10:41.740 anchors.

01:10:42.920 Um, however, here's how I see this latest decision by Chris Licht.

01:10:51.320 Here's a question I have for him.

01:10:53.700 Do women matter?

01:10:55.760 Do we matter?

01:10:57.020 Because it shouldn't have to be that you were raped by a man or 21 women come forward

01:11:04.240 alleging that they'd been sexually harassed by a man or they'd been inappropriately touched

01:11:09.540 by a man for their offense to matter because we have seen person after person get fired

01:11:15.900 because they caused offense, mere offense when it comes to race, when it comes to sexual

01:11:21.680 orientation, when it comes to gender identity.

01:11:24.200 Do women's offense, does women's offense matter?

01:11:28.760 Does it matter?

01:11:29.740 Because this guy managed to piss off half the country and it's not left or right.

01:11:34.220 It's male or female.

01:11:35.200 And by the way, a lot of the men are with us.

01:11:37.320 You don't have to be a me too supporter to be irritated and offended by what Don Lemon said.

01:11:43.080 This one's not breaking down along partisan lines.

01:11:45.480 You know, you've got Janice Dean with a great op-ed online.

01:11:48.520 You've got Maureen Callahan.

01:11:49.480 She's always great.

01:11:50.540 You've got Anna Quinlan, the famed author, and she's a lefty, out there tweeting about

01:11:55.220 what a moron he is.

01:11:56.500 You've got the White House, Corrine Jean-Pierre taking a shot at him.

01:11:59.520 This is not a left and right.

01:12:00.760 This is about decency.

01:12:02.540 Do women matter?

01:12:03.500 Does our offense matter to CNN?

01:12:06.480 Or does someone have to grab a boob for us to count Chris Licht?

01:12:10.780 That's my question to you.

01:12:12.600 Because Don Lemon's re-education camp is a farce.

01:12:16.560 It's a lie.

01:12:17.640 And we know it.

01:12:19.260 We know it.

01:12:19.820 No one's fooled by your stupid fig leaf, Mr. Licht.

01:12:23.440 So do something real.

01:12:25.240 Proof to us that you actually see this guy's got a repeated problem with women.

01:12:29.780 He's a sexist.

01:12:31.180 How are you going to let him cover Nikki Haley?

01:12:33.260 How is he going to cover anybody?

01:12:34.340 How is he going to cover Kamala Harris?

01:12:35.700 He doesn't respect women.

01:12:37.340 He doesn't respect the two women he sits at the anchor desk with.

01:12:40.260 And for them to continue tolerating him makes them part of the problem.

01:12:45.180 There's the rant of the day.

01:12:46.680 There you go, Steve.

01:12:47.560 Cut that clip.

01:12:48.260 Let's get that out.

01:12:50.820 But you see my point?

01:12:52.000 Like, I'm just sick of it.

01:12:52.900 Like, why?

01:12:53.740 Why does somebody have to, like, stick his hand down my shirt in order for my offense to

01:12:58.160 matter as a woman?

01:12:59.560 Why?

01:13:00.660 Right.

01:13:01.060 I think Don, on some level, thought he was criticizing Nikki Haley, criticizing a Republican.

01:13:08.480 And so that's all that he was really thinking through it.

01:13:12.580 And maybe in the old era, that might have been a way of going about it.

01:13:16.400 I mean, certainly he's...

01:13:17.420 I'm sure he said very offensive things about Trump in the context of, you know, race or

01:13:22.620 other aspects of it.

01:13:24.060 I don't think it really registered to him exactly what he was doing.

01:13:28.040 And then when it was made clear to him, even in a very casual way with Poppy Harlow, he

01:13:34.120 still didn't get it.

01:13:34.880 He doubled down in the most embarrassing way possible.

01:13:38.560 And seems to, since then, I guess he's given some sort of apology on Twitter a little bit

01:13:46.120 and on the morning meeting.

01:13:48.980 Nothing really has happened.

01:13:51.000 I mean, he's had a few days off so far.

01:13:53.060 He went to Miami and frolicked in the ocean.

01:13:55.360 Yeah.

01:13:56.140 It does not feel sustainable.

01:13:58.140 I will say.

01:13:58.980 And I'll be very curious to see.

01:14:00.300 In theory, he's back on the air tomorrow morning.

01:14:02.500 It's going to be super awkward.

01:14:05.560 We did, by the way, call CNN and asked about whether there's been any history of problems

01:14:10.040 with Don Lemon and women at CNN.

01:14:12.220 And they ignored us.

01:14:13.360 They blew us off.

01:14:14.180 OK, fine.

01:14:14.820 You don't want to hand out people's personnel files.

01:14:16.560 I get it.

01:14:17.180 You're not going to be able to avoid it forever.

01:14:19.180 Like, if he's got some history, we're going to find out about it.

01:14:21.400 And then you're going to look stupid.

01:14:23.000 Then you're going to look really bad.

01:14:24.040 And by the way, Chris Licht, I know you're new.

01:14:25.540 You should look into it right now.

01:14:26.580 Before you give him another pass, why don't you satisfy yourself that there isn't a history

01:14:30.620 about which you must be aware as the head of this newsroom that you owe to his female

01:14:35.900 colleagues and the other women at CNN and in the audience for that matter, for that matter.

01:14:40.340 I just the whole thing is outrageous to me.

01:14:42.920 He called and he didn't apologize.

01:14:44.320 He tweeted out it was an inartful comment and irrelevant comment.

01:14:48.080 He did not apologize until he reportedly was made to call into the CNN newsroom.

01:14:52.580 And his apology went over like a lead balloon, according to The New York Post, which then

01:14:57.120 he comes out and says, well, but I got to be me.

01:14:59.120 I'm still going to be me.

01:15:00.560 Well, you sucks.

01:15:01.660 What does irrelevant mean?

01:15:02.600 You needs work.

01:15:04.220 Irrelevant.

01:15:04.720 It's relevant to a lot of people, actually.

01:15:06.440 Not irrelevant.

01:15:07.300 I don't think you use the right word there.

01:15:08.440 No, once again.

01:15:10.640 But the Google told him it was the right word, Steve.

01:15:14.440 Imparrassing.

01:15:15.240 Okay, so moving on from Don Lemon.

01:15:17.520 I'm dying to talk to you about what's happening at Fox with this Dominion lawsuit and also

01:15:21.500 Project Veritas.

01:15:23.060 James O'Keefe booted out of Project Veritas.

01:15:26.840 Honestly, it's like the Megyn Kelly show without Megyn Kelly.

01:15:31.460 That's no longer a thing.

01:15:32.860 Shunning down.

01:15:33.400 So we'll pause right there.

01:15:35.120 You guys, the book is called Uncovered.

01:15:36.700 Support Steve.

01:15:37.440 Support his honest look at this disgusting industry and his solutions for it called Uncovered

01:15:43.920 by Steve Krakauer.

01:15:44.860 He stays with us on the opposite side of this break.

01:15:46.780 Don't go away.

01:15:50.760 So, Steve, I got so excited about the Don Lemon thing, I forgot to play the Wajahat Ali sound

01:15:55.600 by ripping once again on, this time, a woman, this time, yes, a Republican, of course, just

01:16:02.800 like your last clip, and this time calling Nikki Haley, a white supremacist.

01:16:10.480 OK, here he was on MSNBC last night.

01:16:13.200 She's the alpha Karen with brown skin and for white supremacists and racists.

01:16:19.080 She's the perfect Manchurian candidate.

01:16:20.400 And her father came here because he was a professor.

01:16:23.120 He taught at a historically black college in South Carolina.

01:16:25.880 That's how she became the proud American that she is.

01:16:29.340 And yet what does she do, like all these model minorities, which, by the way, is the strategy

01:16:33.400 of white supremacy to use Asians in particular as a cudgel against black folks.

01:16:37.960 Instead of pulling us up from the bootstraps and pulling others from the bootstrap, we're

01:16:41.620 taught to take your boot and put it on the neck of poor browns, immigrants, refugees and

01:16:45.860 black folks.

01:16:46.280 She uses her brown skin as a weapon against poor black folks and poor brown folks.

01:16:50.200 And she uses her brown skin to launder white supremacist talking points.

01:16:53.980 And the reason why I feel sad, because no matter what she does, Mehdi, it'll never be

01:16:58.720 enough.

01:16:59.560 They'll never love her.

01:17:02.020 Oh, my God.

01:17:03.520 It's been a while since we've heard something that racist, even out of Wajahad Ali's mouth.

01:17:09.160 Right.

01:17:09.420 We get sexist from Don Lemon.

01:17:10.920 We get racist from Wajahad Ali.

01:17:12.820 And then we get Mehdi Hassan, who, as someone who has a book out around now, I keep an eye

01:17:17.900 out of what other people have books out soon.

01:17:20.220 Mehdi Hassan, who's sitting there nodding the entire time and has his own, it was his

01:17:24.420 show on MSNBC, has his own, let's just say, history of making comments about Republicans

01:17:31.080 in very derogatory ways.

01:17:33.460 And I believe later in that clip also had his own thoughts on Nikki Haley to slam her in

01:17:38.600 seemingly racial ways.

01:17:40.060 He has a book out next week called Win Every Argument, The Art of Debating, Persuading,

01:17:44.420 and Public Speaking.

01:17:45.120 And I wonder if Mehdi Hassan and his audience think that this is winning an argument.

01:17:50.440 This is losing an argument.

01:17:51.980 This is so embarrassing.

01:17:53.580 It's so harmful, not just for, you know, Vicki Haley fans.

01:17:58.740 No one's being persuaded in this way.

01:18:00.240 But even for people in the center and center left that watch this and are just disgusted

01:18:07.480 by it, people that are not in New York and D.C. newsrooms in the rest of the country, no

01:18:12.480 matter what political persuasion they are, are grossed out by this.

01:18:16.500 Mm-hmm.

01:18:16.760 This is why I disagree with the end chapter of the book, that media can be saved by some,

01:18:21.580 well, you have sort of a four-point plan.

01:18:23.080 But I don't, I just feel like once you show them, you know, this guy, Wajahad Ali, the

01:18:27.640 earlier comments on CNN, we played these on MSN, that you hate them.

01:18:32.140 They're not coming back to you.

01:18:33.620 There's no recovering from that.

01:18:35.540 No, not with Wajahad Ali as a pundit, for sure, and not with the other people that I

01:18:41.360 think have just been, their credibility has just been so destroyed during the Trump era

01:18:47.460 and the post-Trump era.

01:18:49.200 That said, I think that the public is generally a forgiving public.

01:18:53.620 And I do wonder if there was, happened to be some introspection, I think it's going to

01:18:57.960 need help from other people.

01:18:59.040 I mentioned things like ombudsmen, ombudspeople who could be within news organizations and call

01:19:04.640 out this crap at an MSNBC, an MSNBC employee, in theory.

01:19:08.620 I mean, okay, this is a little pie in the sky, I understand.

01:19:10.960 But, you know, at CNN, could they get someone internal there whose job it is, is to be the

01:19:15.540 public editor, to call out what they see on the air at their own channel and to at least

01:19:21.400 raise questions and ask questions about it.

01:19:23.900 I think that that could do a world of difference, but certainly not with that pundit.

01:19:28.560 It could help.

01:19:29.540 I don't know.

01:19:29.880 I don't think it could solve, but it could help.

01:19:31.420 Um, just because we teased it at the top of the show and I said that Trump has now responded

01:19:35.520 to Nikki Haley.

01:19:36.460 He says it's a good idea.

01:19:37.780 He likes the mental competency test.

01:19:39.540 He says we should do a physical one too.

01:19:41.720 And I have to say good for him because, you know, he's kind of like, she's talking about

01:19:45.400 Biden, right?

01:19:46.900 He's like, fine by me.

01:19:48.240 I'll take it and pass it.

01:19:50.400 It's, uh, the next big thing that's going to heat up, right, is the, is the GOP race.

01:19:54.560 And, uh, I think that the first debate, I guess, is, is already going to be, uh, scheduled

01:19:57.940 sometime in July or so, uh, it's, I'm very curious to see who comes in.

01:20:03.020 Um, but, but right now it's, uh, Trump and Nikki Haley.

01:20:05.320 We're sort of in the early days.

01:20:06.720 I'd love to see it get a little bit more.

01:20:08.220 So rude to John Bolton, Steve.

01:20:09.800 Oh, that's right.

01:20:10.460 That's right.

01:20:10.820 John Bolton.

01:20:11.440 Yes.

01:20:12.720 Nasty man.

01:20:13.420 It was across the pond.

01:20:15.480 All right.

01:20:15.980 Let's move on to, uh, Fox news in the news this week and the absolute meltdown on the

01:20:22.280 left about this lawsuit filed against Fox by Dominion.

01:20:25.700 It's a defamation lawsuit based on Fox's coverage during the post-election period where lunatic

01:20:34.420 Sidney Powell, who once was a respected appellate lawyer, said she was going to release the Kraken

01:20:40.900 and that she had proved Dominion voting machines were changing votes from Biden, from Trump

01:20:46.040 to Biden, and that she was going to be able to prove this.

01:20:48.500 And she got a fair amount of airtime on Fox, Maria Bartiromo, Lou Dobbs, um, Janine Pirro

01:20:55.520 in particular, but I think at least one or two appearances on Hannity as well.

01:20:59.700 And the media, it was very interesting to me because I will tell you as a defamation case,

01:21:04.480 even lawyers who I respect are saying it's a good one because they think that Dominion can

01:21:09.520 prove actual malice because they've got Fox hosts, Tucker, Sean, Fox executives, Suzanne

01:21:14.520 Scott, and others talking about how this is a lunatic claim, how Sidney Powell is crazy

01:21:19.180 and that this sounds absolutely nuts, bonkers, what she's saying.

01:21:23.680 But then they've got people like Maria platforming her, Sidney Powell, and allowing her to say

01:21:29.160 the things.

01:21:29.880 So they think this is going to prove actual malice that Fox had knowledge it was true, untrue

01:21:33.580 and, and allowed it to be said on their air anyway.

01:21:36.560 I've got my doubts as a lawyer.

01:21:37.740 I have to say, I don't think, you know, Tucker saying she's a lunatic and he did not platform

01:21:43.680 her.

01:21:44.000 He called her out is imputed knowledge to Maria Bartiromo.

01:21:48.760 I mean, people have different views and different standards, you know, does it look good for

01:21:53.380 Fox?

01:21:53.760 No, it doesn't look good for Fox.

01:21:55.000 And that's sort of where you come in because you're somebody who observes the media.

01:21:59.040 Um, I will say this one other point though, Steve, they're, they're all over Fox being worried

01:22:03.160 about the bottom line.

01:22:03.960 We're losing viewers.

01:22:04.680 You know, the audience already mad at us for the early Arizona call.

01:22:08.340 Well, let's go back to the question I asked you about why Jeff Zucker used to run video

01:22:12.620 of Trump's empty lectern.

01:22:14.940 It, as if Fox is the only one who cares about maintaining an audience, you know, for sure.

01:22:21.060 That was a goal that's reflected in these texts, but to pretend that they're the only

01:22:24.340 one is a farce.

01:22:25.840 What do you make of it?

01:22:26.800 Right.

01:22:27.040 No, yeah, for sure.

01:22:27.860 It's a business.

01:22:28.500 Now, look, I read the filing last night and, and I agree with you.

01:22:32.440 I think that, that it's, it's very, it's an interesting media story for sure.

01:22:35.620 I know I defer to you on the, on the legal side of it, uh, as a defamation case, but,

01:22:39.820 uh, it does.

01:22:40.820 I'd be very curious to see if there's a settlement at some point as well.

01:22:43.480 Um, I, I would have loved to see some of the texts from Maria Bartiromo, from Lou Dobbs,

01:22:49.720 from Jeannie and Pirro, because they get referenced from the on-air perspective so much and we don't

01:22:53.780 see their texts.

01:22:54.420 And I think that's sort of telling also potentially, um, they're, they're, they're not the ones

01:22:58.640 who are in there doing it.

01:22:59.780 At the same time, I, uh, Canadian Debbie told me I found like a 400 page filing.

01:23:04.100 I believe it was the original filing and like 200 pages of it are Lou Dobbs tweets and Facebook

01:23:09.940 posts and Instagram posts.

01:23:11.060 I mean, he is the star of their lawsuit and he's also the only one who's no longer at

01:23:15.480 Fox that's inspired the day that Dominion filed this lawsuit.

01:23:18.820 Right.

01:23:19.080 And so he, he was the star on one end and, but, but is not the star of these, these new

01:23:23.640 text messages, the juicy filings that we're seeing here.

01:23:26.280 And so I, I, I think that it's a, it is a good peel back the curtain moment here.

01:23:31.260 And I do think that in a lot of ways for me, it shows Fox worried in, and you could say

01:23:37.520 whether they're worried, uh, to the detriment of their viewers or they're worried, uh, to,

01:23:42.280 you know, in a, I guess in a positive way of not wanting to offend their viewers who

01:23:46.000 are being spun this story by Donald Trump and are believing it.

01:23:50.000 I mean, I, I, I, and they're not necessarily buying into it.

01:23:53.460 And there might be some sort of bias of omission by not saying on the air, we're not feeling

01:23:58.040 that this is right.

01:23:58.640 But I think that one of the things that it reminds me of is what happened in our show

01:24:02.940 when this was going on.

01:24:04.040 And we talked about getting Sidney Powell on.

01:24:06.200 We wanted to have her on.

01:24:07.240 We, I don't think it's platforming to put Sidney Powell on for a tough interview.

01:24:12.660 Yeah.

01:24:12.860 And that's the point.

01:24:13.640 And that's also why she didn't come on.

01:24:15.300 I think that, that, that, that was a very telling moment.

01:24:18.000 She, she also notably would not go on Tucker Carlson's show.

01:24:20.360 And he talked about that.

01:24:21.440 She would never come on our show.

01:24:22.920 That was, that was a real eye opener for us, but we weren't going to automatically go one side

01:24:27.420 or the other on what she was saying.

01:24:28.820 We're going to dig into it like, like you do.

01:24:30.720 And like you have the, our, our producers do on, on all of these points here.

01:24:34.860 We had Dinesh D'Souza on.

01:24:36.200 That was another element of this.

01:24:37.960 I think it's important to have these conversations, but to do so in the most transparent way possible.

01:24:43.100 And I think the text messages maybe give a window into a sort of a non-transparency,

01:24:47.100 but I do think the idea of, of, you know, talking to Sidney Powell to, at least in the early

01:24:53.720 days, you know, the, the very, very early days to hearing it out and then dismissing

01:24:58.160 it if it's complete, you know, BS.

01:25:01.040 Well, and also like your personal opinion about a news story doesn't necessarily belong

01:25:06.420 in the news story.

01:25:07.780 Right.

01:25:08.000 Now, you know, if you have Tucker saying, this is absolute madness, this is a lie and

01:25:12.540 it's bullshit.

01:25:13.340 And then putting her on and being like, tell me more, tell me more without any skeptical

01:25:16.480 questions.

01:25:17.160 That's not good.

01:25:17.940 That didn't happen.

01:25:18.920 He, he didn't do that.

01:25:19.980 Um, now they do say that Hannity platformed her, uh, and, and they conveniently do not

01:25:26.180 offer the full interview.

01:25:28.020 They just pull excerpts.

01:25:29.040 I'd like to go back and I haven't done this yet and look at the full interview.

01:25:31.540 Did he push back?

01:25:32.560 Did he ask for more proof?

01:25:33.760 And, and to be fair to Dominion, just asking for more proof isn't enough either.

01:25:38.380 I mean, there should be a grilling of somebody making claims like that.

01:25:42.800 Yeah.

01:25:42.840 I think in the Fox filing, they do note some of the caveats that Sean and others who had

01:25:47.680 are on the air gave, uh, I, I'd be very curious to go back and watch those.

01:25:51.720 It was in real intricate detail as well, but it, but it also, you know, Megan reminded me

01:25:55.280 of something, you know, there was, uh, it's something that really, I think distinguishes

01:25:59.300 you and the show, uh, in a lot of ways from so much out there.

01:26:03.500 Uh, we had an interview that, that you mentioned in the, in the podcast exclusive episode we did

01:26:08.360 last year that never ran, uh, of interview we've recorded a whole hour and never ran.

01:26:14.040 And there was a reason for that.

01:26:15.080 And it's something I think about all the time.

01:26:17.300 And it was that this guest at, when the interview was over, wanted a certain part taken out.

01:26:24.040 And this guest didn't want this taken out because they misspoke or they didn't phrase

01:26:30.380 things the right way.

01:26:31.500 This guest wanted something taken out that that was their true opinion.

01:26:35.760 And then on second thought, they decided, I don't really want my true opinion out there.

01:26:40.020 That's something that I, I'm not sure I want that in the public.

01:26:42.420 And so ultimately we didn't run that, but that, that happens a lot.

01:26:47.920 And it also, this person is someone who portrays this person's self as someone who is on the

01:26:55.060 field, is, is out there in the public willing to say anything.

01:26:58.060 And then when shit hits the fan in a guest in this person's mind, they buckle.

01:27:05.020 And this is the entire conversation that we've had today is something that you and I would

01:27:10.020 have if you and I were just sitting here talking off air.

01:27:12.780 It's, it is.

01:27:13.760 And, and with every story you are putting your true opinion out there and, and the facts and

01:27:18.460 leading it where, where it goes.

01:27:20.280 And that is just so rare.

01:27:21.660 I know our audience is great and they do know that and they appreciate it, but even

01:27:25.660 the people that portray themselves as real, you know, truth tellers, a lot of times that's

01:27:31.700 bullshit and, and here it's not.

01:27:33.800 And I think it really is such a service for the audience that is, that they're getting

01:27:37.440 the truth when you come here.

01:27:39.400 Well, thank you for saying that it it's liberating to be on the other side of all that nonsense.

01:27:45.100 Some people wondered whether it was a politician and we were running cover for, no, it wasn't

01:27:48.420 a politician, it was a pundit and it was a pundit who spent the better part of the hour

01:27:51.960 telling us, you know, how fearless they were and how they would just say anything because

01:27:55.920 they stood by their beliefs, except for this one thing.

01:27:58.800 And then we said to this person, uh, we're not going to pull it.

01:28:01.380 So if you don't want the interview to air, we'll do you that courtesy, but we're not pulling

01:28:06.040 that and then letting you mislead our audience.

01:28:08.880 And they said, okay, then pull it.

01:28:10.280 That's how fearless this person was.

01:28:12.420 Maybe eventually we'll tell you who it was.

01:28:13.720 Depends.

01:28:14.020 Um, before I go quickly, Project Veritas without James O'Keefe, he got pushed out by the board

01:28:20.800 allegedly because he didn't treat some employees very nicely.

01:28:25.160 Steve, I don't know.

01:28:26.040 There's no, to me, there's no Project Veritas without James O'Keefe.

01:28:28.820 I think his audience will follow him wherever he goes.

01:28:31.360 It's about him.

01:28:32.440 It's not about that brand name.

01:28:33.960 Totally.

01:28:34.580 He's a young guy.

01:28:35.540 He's been doing it for decades at Project Veritas.

01:28:37.900 I think James O'Keefe is more the brand than Project Veritas.

01:28:40.460 And I'd be very curious to know what he does next.

01:28:42.660 Yeah.

01:28:42.900 Yeah, he's going to land on his feet.

01:28:44.740 Okay.

01:28:45.180 Don't forget.

01:28:46.200 The book is called Uncovered.

01:28:48.260 You Will Not Be Sorry.

01:28:49.280 Support Steve.

01:28:49.980 Please enjoy it.

01:28:51.160 How the media got cozy with power, abandoned its principles, and lost the people.

01:28:55.120 We won't see Steve tomorrow because he's still on his media tour, but we'll see all of you

01:28:57.860 tomorrow.

01:28:58.300 And Steve, good luck on it.

01:28:59.340 Thanks, Megan.

01:28:59.740 We'll see you next week.

01:29:03.340 Thanks for listening to The Megan Kelly Show.

01:29:05.180 No BS, no agenda, and no fear.

01:29:12.900 We'll see you next week.

The Megyn Kelly Show - February 21, 2023

CNN Refuses to Fire Don Lemon, Biden’s Message to Putin, How the Media Got ＂Cozy＂ With Power, with Glenn Beck and Steve Krakauer ｜ Ep. 497

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