The Megyn Kelly Show - CNN's Post-Trump Town Hall Meltdown, and No Media Accountability Post-Durham, with the Fifth Column Hosts

00:00:00.400 Welcome to The Megyn Kelly Show, your home for open, honest, and provocative conversations.

00:00:11.940 Hey everyone, I'm Megyn Kelly. Welcome to The Megyn Kelly Show.

00:00:15.500 Incredible new details on the absolute meltdown inside CNN after the Trump town hall.

00:00:23.460 We're going on one week now, and they are still in a shambles over there.

00:00:28.500 One CNN staffer likening the fallout to the Chernobyl nuclear disaster.

00:00:35.980 This is the greatest story ever. I'm sorry. It's the greatest.

00:00:40.700 Meanwhile, on Friday night, CNN's primetime drew a smaller audience than Newsmax.

00:00:47.060 Okay, now we never even look at Newsmax. No disrespect to my friends at Newsmax.

00:00:51.420 They understand this too. They're not in as many homes as Fox News.

00:00:56.180 So, I mean, they were just like a blip that nobody would ever even look at.

00:00:59.300 And now they're beating CNN. Oh, my God. In the primetime, at least on Friday.

00:01:05.060 Always love when our friends from the Fifth Column Podcast join the show, and they are here today for the entire program.

00:01:10.680 Camille Foster and Matt Welsh are here. Moynihan, interestingly, is stuck in the subway and will be here shortly.

00:01:18.280 You know what? This is very sketchy. Was he doing like a little like man on the street research for the biggest story in New York right now?

00:01:24.780 Is that what's happening, guys, from wethefifth.sunsack.com?

00:01:28.940 Some debate about whether or not he is doing his own Michael Jackson impersonations or he's actually trying to wrestle someone to the ground right now.

00:01:37.200 I suspect we'll find out very soon, though.

00:01:39.020 Yeah.

00:01:39.260 And I hope he'll be the good guy.

00:01:41.740 There he is.

00:01:42.160 I see him. He made it. Moynihan, can you hear us?

00:01:44.640 Yeah. I was just doing a very spirited rendition of the song Dirty Diana on the subway.

00:01:49.780 Yeah.

00:01:50.620 And when I got up on my toes, I was attacked ruthlessly.

00:01:55.140 So now I'm here. I apologize.

00:01:58.160 Glad to see you.

00:01:58.920 There is something. I just want to say one thing before we start.

00:02:01.020 It is amazing to me that people who live in New York aren't all libertarians because nothing in this city works.

00:02:08.660 Literally, you pay absurdly high taxes and nothing works.

00:02:12.260 Something that a private company could do well, the New York City government cannot achieve the most basic things.

00:02:17.400 And I'm doing Trump hands because I'm so frustrated by it.

00:02:19.980 So sorry for me.

00:02:20.700 He is doing good.

00:02:21.760 That's true.

00:02:22.100 No, my biggest image of New York City right now these days, and I lived there for 17 years on the Upper West Side with my family, is the trees, because now I live in Connecticut, where there are actual trees with leaves on them.

00:02:33.880 Unlike the Upper West Side and the Upper East Side and the Lower East Side and Hell's Kitchen, where the trees don't so much have leaves as they do plastic bags.

00:02:42.240 Yes.

00:02:42.520 Plastic bags, like little sad little wannabe Christmas ornaments adorning the trees because the Department of Public Sanitation is all but non-existent.

00:02:52.440 Yes.

00:02:53.140 So the trees are covered in violence in New York, whereas in Connecticut, they're covered in leaves.

00:02:59.060 I live outside the city most of the time, too, and it is a real market contrast, and you need that once in a while to come back and say, oh, my God, this is the fifth world.

00:03:08.680 It's not even the third world.

00:03:09.900 But they are.

00:03:12.240 I'm excited to share with you all that they are thinking about, and of course, it'll cost an incredible amount of money.

00:03:18.740 They're thinking about finally putting the garbage sacks that are piled up on the streets in bins.

00:03:25.180 They're making this consideration in New York City in the Lord's year 20 and 23.

00:03:31.480 That would be nice to have some bins.

00:03:32.520 And then if they could actually aim correctly for the bins, because the problem is once the garbage trucks go by, they dump out the garbage, you know, the trash that's on the street corners or that you have wrapped up in a bag.

00:03:42.600 And then there's an overflow, right?

00:03:44.240 There's overflow from the because they don't pick up enough.

00:03:47.120 And then they just leave it.

00:03:48.220 So you're walking down the street, you're stepping over so much disgusting trash.

00:03:52.080 Now you're stepping over human excrement.

00:03:55.040 Yes, it's true.

00:03:56.480 That's another joy of the subway these days.

00:03:59.120 This mayor was not the big fix that many of us hoped he'd be after the disastrous last mayor.

00:04:04.640 All right.

00:04:04.980 Enough about New York City.

00:04:06.220 Let's talk about CNN.

00:04:07.720 I sent this to Debbie and Steve, my producers, last night.

00:04:10.460 I'm like, this is the greatest story I've ever read in my life.

00:04:12.180 Um, it's by Lachlan Cartwright, who's a reporter over at the Daily Beast and Justin Barragona.

00:04:18.480 Um, and it's under this brand called Confider.

00:04:21.720 Now it's following up on a Puck News report that initially reported things continue in a downward spiral at CNN.

00:04:28.540 They are so angry that Trump was hosted in a town hall internally.

00:04:33.460 I mean, it's a full revolt.

00:04:35.400 It's dividing the staff from the management.

00:04:37.640 The staff's attacking the management.

00:04:39.100 The management is attacking the staff in places like Fox News Digital.

00:04:44.080 It's a civil war inside of CNN right now.

00:04:47.040 And this is just an example of the Trump derangement syndrome that has dominated the media for the past six years and continues to to this day.

00:04:55.900 All right.

00:04:56.100 So I'm going to get into all of it, but let me just set it up with this, with the lamentation of their, you know, best known news anchor.

00:05:02.340 I think it's fair to say Anderson Cooper the day after the Trump town hall last week, which I haven't yet played for the audience.

00:05:09.420 Maybe they've seen it elsewhere, but you got to get a feel for how sad and disturbed the CNN talent and many, many others inside the building are that Trump was given this forum.

00:05:19.000 Listen, as good a job as Gailen Collins did trying to fact check him, it is impossible to fact check fully because he lies so shamelessly.

00:05:27.600 That man you were so upset to hear from last night, he may be president of the United States in less than two years.

00:05:33.560 And that audience that upset you, that's a sampling of about half the country.

00:05:38.840 They are your family members, your neighbors, and they are voting.

00:05:42.180 You have every right to be outraged today and angry and never watch this network again.

00:05:46.660 But do you think staying in your silo and only listening to people you agree with is going to make that person go away?

00:05:54.700 I mean, at least he kept the tears from rolling down his cheeks because that would have been a little bit too strong.

00:05:59.360 Well, he's kind of right about that last bit, though, isn't he?

00:06:02.260 He is.

00:06:02.820 And like, don't, you know, you got to deal with this.

00:06:05.160 You can't be like me.

00:06:06.220 It is really amazing what he says.

00:06:08.380 Those people in the audience, those are real humans.

00:06:10.900 I am Gloria Vanderbilt's son.

00:06:13.240 And now that's a special thing.

00:06:16.720 That was really amazing.

00:06:18.360 But I do appreciate all of this.

00:06:20.400 And we talked about it on The Fifth Home, this incredible thing coming from inside a news organization with a man who is going to cinch the nomination for the Republican Party for the next election should not be, quote unquote, platformed.

00:06:34.680 Are you joking with me?

00:06:36.700 Right.

00:06:36.940 It's unbelievable.

00:06:37.560 Here's how I'm going to revise his talking point for him.

00:06:39.680 Dear CNN audience, grow up.

00:06:43.060 Grow up.

00:06:43.960 It's called news.

00:06:45.440 Sorry.

00:06:46.520 OK, bye.

00:06:47.220 That's it.

00:06:47.840 I mean, the struggle session on the air live, Camille, like, oh, you have every right to be angry and to never watch the channel again.

00:06:57.020 Like, who are they kidding?

00:06:58.840 Either do news or don't.

00:07:00.200 But don't apologize for doing the news.

00:07:01.920 I mean, the presumption is very clear that the people who watch his show couldn't possibly vote for Donald Trump.

00:07:08.760 Like, they're just they're aware of that.

00:07:10.480 So any any pretense that what they are doing is decidedly objective, not that one can be completely objective, but that it is decidedly objective and it's just the facts.

00:07:19.880 And that is what they're doing, like, should obviously be pushed aside in favor of this rather indirect, but very clear admission that what we've been doing for a very long time is producing a newscast.

00:07:33.260 That the only sort of people who would actually watch it are the kind of people who would be outraged by the very visage of Donald Trump on the screen and the sound of his voice.

00:07:41.420 If you are outraged by Donald Trump, even if you're someone who dislikes him by just him appearing and being cross-examined by someone who didn't do the best possible job, the magic.

00:07:51.380 Well, I know there's some disagreement about that point of hand.

00:07:53.700 That is that is really distressing.

00:07:56.140 You're an adult human outraged by the fact that the man is on television ever.

00:07:59.960 I think that's that's preposterous.

00:08:02.600 And Anderson did eventually arrive at what sounded like the the right idea that people shouldn't be siloing themselves.

00:08:10.620 But it's also the case that anyone who's been watching your program apparently has been siloing themselves.

00:08:15.960 So it's nice that you're no longer doing that.

00:08:19.080 But that's what you did before.

00:08:20.480 He had to acknowledge their pain first.

00:08:23.100 You understand?

00:08:23.720 Like they're all feeling it.

00:08:24.800 This is obviously hugely distressing to hear him again and have him back again.

00:08:30.140 We get it.

00:08:30.760 We feel you.

00:08:31.440 I mean, so much for the new, more fair and balanced CNN.

00:08:34.300 All right.

00:08:34.600 Because that's that's the way forward is not.

00:08:37.620 We fucking hate him as much as you do, but we've got to put him on because he's running like that.

00:08:41.680 That is not the way to win back the missing GOP years that they drove away during the GOP of the Trump years.

00:08:48.580 So.

00:08:49.060 All right.

00:08:49.260 So that what he said shows to some extent what's happening inside the building at CNN and it's ongoing.

00:08:54.820 Puck News, Dylan Byers, who used to I think he was inside CNN, then he went inside NBC and now he works for Puck News, has an article up saying that he summoned their new Brian Stelter, a guy named Oliver Darcy up to his office.

00:09:11.740 Chris Licht is the new boss over at CNN and he was very unhappy with the way his internal reporter, media reporter Oliver Darcy, shown here on the left, covered the fallout within the building after this town hall.

00:09:25.640 Reports, Dylan Byers, Oliver Darcy's newsletter caught Chris Licht's attention.

00:09:32.100 Chris Licht summoned him and told him, you are too emotional in covering this.

00:09:37.420 What did Oliver Darcy write?

00:09:38.880 Quote, it's hard to see how America was served by the spectacle of lies that aired on CNN Wednesday evening.

00:09:45.880 He reported that his boss, Chris Licht, was now facing a fury of criticism, both internally and externally,

00:09:53.040 and went on to write how Licht and other CNN executives that address the criticism in the coming days and weeks will be crucial.

00:10:00.780 So he gets summed up to the boss's office and the meeting, quote, put the fear of God into Oliver Darcy, who was left visibly shaken.

00:10:08.740 Per Puck News, according to Semaphore, a different news organization, in the aftermath of the meeting and coverage, Darcy has wondered to colleagues whether he should resign or if he will be fired.

00:10:19.380 All right.

00:10:19.580 So that was interesting enough.

00:10:20.820 But then let me get you to the real good stuff.

00:10:22.400 OK, this is from, as I point out, Daily Beast, Lachlan Cartwright and Justin Barragona.

00:10:29.160 CNN's boss, Chris Licht's extreme sensitivity to any negative press coverage of his reign and his resulting attempt to intimidate the network's top media reporter in the wake of the disastrous Trump town hall has greatly alarmed staffers.

00:10:44.580 So here's what happened.

00:10:45.620 According to this report, Chris Licht didn't like the Oliver Darcy reporting.

00:10:49.720 Chris Licht apparently got somebody to go speak with Fox News Digital and say that.

00:10:56.660 Hold on.

00:10:57.680 I'll get it.

00:10:59.320 Stand by.

00:11:01.400 CNN staffers were appalled by Oliver Darcy's report.

00:11:05.100 And then the CNN staffers revolted, saying, F you, Chris Licht.

00:11:13.100 Oliver Darcy's not the problem.

00:11:14.800 You, platformer, you are the problem for turning CNN into a forum in which Donald Trump took over and got his message out uninterrupted, basically, well, interrupted, but unimpeded to the American people.

00:11:27.920 So they talked about the Puck reporting.

00:11:30.520 They go on to say that after that, a CNN executive tells Confider that the people inside the building were very bothered by what they did with Fox News Digital, this attempt to smear Oliver Darcy.

00:11:44.700 One said, quote, I heard zero complaints about Darcy's newsletter.

00:11:48.140 In fact, the opposite.

00:11:49.520 People were glad someone was calling this out.

00:11:51.660 A CNN on-air personality added, it's a terrible look that he's being muzzled or intimidated simply for saying what everyone is thinking.

00:12:00.820 He's not in PR.

00:12:02.260 He's a journalist.

00:12:03.760 OK, they went on to say he's not going to resign, but he did contemplate it, this media reporter.

00:12:09.220 And it says as follows.

00:12:10.220 CNN insiders say Licht has been spending an inordinately large amount of time around The Atlantic reporter, Tim Alberta, who was profiling the executive after his first year in the office.

00:12:20.700 Alberta was in the audience for the Trump Town Hall, which was described to confide her as, quote, our Chernobyl by one CNN staffer as network spin doctors work overtime hoping to generate a glowing profile of the boss.

00:12:38.440 All of this happens as the network falls to fourth place in cable news primetime ratings on Friday night, just two days after the Trump Town Hall, falling behind Newsmax.

00:12:51.580 Then Oliver Darcy late last night puts out his own Reliable Sources newsletter.

00:12:57.220 That's the thing Stelter used to do and points out that CNN averaged three hundred and thirty five thousand in the overall on Friday night.

00:13:07.880 My God, I would have been embarrassed to get that in the demo most nights on the Kelly file, which is the smaller, the younger audience.

00:13:14.120 The overall, it should be above a million.

00:13:15.800 It was three hundred and thirty five thousand.

00:13:18.520 They point out, Oliver Darcy says, smaller audience from eight to eleven than Newsmax.

00:13:23.780 And he says, quote, it's unclear if the viewership decline was connected to the town hall.

00:13:31.300 Chernobyl, guys, exactly the same.

00:13:33.600 It's the same.

00:13:34.160 I I'm just glad that we've graduated from words are violence to words are catastrophic nuclear radioactive poison, which I think is inaccurate, unless they're said by someone on the subway who's acting erratically and saying he wants to die.

00:13:49.860 And then that should be treated differently.

00:13:51.880 No, it shows this shows what Chris licked.

00:13:55.680 He's he's in licked is in a pickle, Megan, because his he's trying to change a news organization that has already changed beyond recognition.

00:14:07.260 I mean, just think in terms of Anderson Cooper, Anderson Cooper.

00:14:10.320 I mean, he was on my short list of people, as were you, Megan.

00:14:12.780 And I'm not saying this to to butter you up.

00:14:15.480 I'd said this in other fora and even got criticized for it on the Bill Maher program.

00:14:19.220 He was a really good presidential debate moderator, at least on one or two occasions, like a good newsman on his best days.

00:14:27.340 And then if you just happen to stumble into Anderson Cooper while channel surfing any time over the last six years, you're like, what the hell is this?

00:14:35.100 Yeah, like soggy emotionalism in that thing.

00:14:38.220 I'm glad that he did express the sentiments like, hey, we're supposed to not stay in our silos.

00:14:42.840 But he was breaking up.

00:14:44.620 He was crying, talking about it.

00:14:47.360 And it felt like a hostage note.

00:14:48.560 Like this is the conditions under which he has to still work.

00:14:51.420 CNN, I used to when I first started doing cable news as a guest back around 2007 and eight, I first noticed this at Fox and would try to sort of struggle against it.

00:15:01.180 There was a sense of the first person plural of the we, the assumed kind of political sense of things, not in every place and certainly not on on red eye where the most, but in many places.

00:15:11.880 And like it was just sort of strange for me with my news background.

00:15:14.780 I began noticing that at MSNBC pretty shortly thereafter.

00:15:18.300 And it was a stronger sense of we than the we that I had experienced over at Fox.

00:15:23.000 And but CNN was always considered to be all right.

00:15:26.260 That's more of a news thing.

00:15:27.740 CNN has gotten into such of the we business.

00:15:30.560 And the we is we're defending democracy by making sure that we don't platform not just Trump, but by any, you know, January 6th denier.

00:15:38.080 As Jake Tapper is, he won't they won't put on actual elected representatives who are in the Republican Party who don't agree with what they say about January 6th.

00:15:47.000 I might not agree with those people, too, but they are elected Republicans.

00:15:50.560 They are.

00:15:50.860 This is your country.

00:15:51.980 If you have any pretensions of being in the news business, you have to deal with them.

00:15:56.180 Tucker Carlson, if I'm not mistaken, had has more had more of an audience among Democrats than Anderson Cooper or anyone else has among humans.

00:16:04.880 And Tucker Carlson, I might add, who's a different character than almost anybody else on television, when he would get to the you know, these are my politics.

00:16:13.860 It was always him.

00:16:15.100 It wasn't like there wasn't a we he knew that he had an audience of people who are more politically cross-dressing than people in that are watching CNN right now.

00:16:24.260 So if Chris Lick is coming in there and saying, OK, we're going to fire Brian Stelter, we're going to get some of the emotionalism off, we're going to start doing it down the middle.

00:16:30.680 He's going to find that his entire organization has are still pretending like it's the summer of 2020 when you can do a staff wide revolt and issue your petitions.

00:16:40.700 We don't live in that world anymore, but it's really, really hard to change an existing legacy news media operation whose culture has changed so profoundly.

00:16:48.200 You're so right. It'd be one thing, guys, if DeSantis got the nomination or Tim Scott or Nikki Haley.

00:16:55.260 CNN might have a chance of playing it down the middle under the new edict.

00:16:59.560 But there is zero chance of them landing that plane with Donald Trump as the nominee, which is what the smart bet is, at least as of today.

00:17:07.600 They can't do it. The town hall and the fallout after the town hall prove it.

00:17:11.360 No, the fallout was internal and the fallout was not amongst the American people.

00:17:17.420 I mean, normal people aren't talking about this stuff. I mean, as Matt says, this is a kind of dying empire.

00:17:22.520 It reminds me, I went to a very waspy country club that Irish people like me are not typically allowed into in Massachusetts.

00:17:29.460 And I looked around and I said, man, these people are living in a different era.

00:17:32.980 The era of the wasp is over. That's what I look at when I see cable news.

00:17:36.240 They don't notice it and they're all high on their own supply.

00:17:38.740 They're like, we are. I'm Anderson Cooper. You get 300,000 people watching your show.

00:17:43.280 I'm sorry. Why? Why are people not paying attention to what the fifth column says?

00:17:46.660 Because we get more listeners than you get viewers.

00:17:49.080 I'm sorry. I'm sorry to say no one's paying attention to us in the way that they're paying attention to them,

00:17:52.640 because this is a completely dying world, a dying business.

00:17:56.440 And you have somebody like Tucker Carlson, who's going to run out in a rail.

00:17:59.920 And he says, look, I'm going to do it on Twitter. I don't need cable news anymore.

00:18:03.180 I'm going to bring my audience with me. My audience is portable and mobile.

00:18:06.040 And, you know, you have guys like Oliver Darcy saying, like, they think this is a public works job.

00:18:11.360 They think they work for the MTA or something. Why can't I criticize my employer?

00:18:15.700 Like, how dare you attack me for attacking my employer?

00:18:19.400 I, sorry, grew up in an era where if you don't attack your employer, you don't piss inside the tent.

00:18:24.180 That's considered insane to do. And to say, well, no, I'm just reporting.

00:18:28.180 No, no, you're giving an opinion about how it was terrible that the decision that your new CEO made and you're expecting.

00:18:34.580 Well, it depends on what his role is. Like, what is I don't know what Oliver Darcy's role is.

00:18:39.480 You know, that if he's supposed to be like the ombudsman, you know, like the Washington Post used to have where there's a person sort of sitting outside the company,

00:18:46.860 but really is employed by the company and is supposed to be free to say, oh, the company screwed up.

00:18:51.960 This is BS journalism. That's one thing.

00:18:54.320 That's certainly not what Brian Stelter was doing when he was there. He was Jeff Zucker's mouthpiece.

00:18:59.800 He said whatever Jeff Zucker wanted him to say. Now Jeff Zucker's fired. And so is Stelter.

00:19:04.400 So I don't know what Oliver Darcy thinks he's doing over there.

00:19:07.920 I do believe, however, the real problem is here.

00:19:10.380 He was giving voice to the actual attitude inside of CNN, whether Chris Licht likes it or not.

00:19:15.460 And to me, that's the news story that they're so fragile inside of CNN.

00:19:19.420 There's in such a meltdown over the platforming of the guy who is dominating the GOP race by what was the latest, like 30, 40 points.

00:19:29.560 It's not like he's up by two over DeSantis.

00:19:31.900 Like, who else would they be platforming if they want to take a look at the GOP race right now?

00:19:35.920 Just one quick point. People used to complain that we would, people like Matt and Camille and I would focus on the madness that had enveloped campus politics.

00:19:47.700 But I would always point out this is the bleeding edge.

00:19:50.060 This stuff is going to overtake the sort of general population soon.

00:19:54.360 And that's what you see at CNN.

00:19:55.500 I mean, we used to have these conversations about about words being violence and no platforming.

00:20:00.000 And we have to get rid of Alex Jones or something from YouTube rather than debate or expose him as a loon.

00:20:06.620 And now this is actually within mainstream news organizations.

00:20:10.820 And their remit is to tell you what the person who is up 30 points in the in the Republican primary is saying and is likely to be the nominee.

00:20:20.880 And the fact that these weird things from the campus that people used to say, look, that's just extremist nonsense.

00:20:27.520 And I was always say that this is like, you know, edging closer and closer to the mainstream.

00:20:31.980 But I never thought it would hit journalism because we were kind of siloed in that way that, you know, we're talking about what is real in society, what people are talking about.

00:20:40.680 And we can't sanitize it because it might make you uncomfortable.

00:20:43.840 It's incredible that that's actually coming from inside the machine at CNN.

00:20:47.820 It just means that they're no longer a news organization.

00:20:49.480 But here's the other thing on the alternative.

00:20:51.900 It's like, I'll give you the floor one second.

00:20:53.480 I just want to make one quick point on it.

00:20:55.840 You don't have to fact check every single thing he says.

00:20:58.320 Trump does lie a lot.

00:20:59.420 A lot of politicians do.

00:21:00.680 Trump might be in a special class, but he does lie a lot.

00:21:04.280 He says a lot of things that are not true.

00:21:06.060 You don't have to fact check every single one.

00:21:08.520 You know, pick your top five is basically what I would have told Caitlin Collins and zero in on those that the audience know knows this one actually really matters.

00:21:17.960 Pay attention right here.

00:21:18.880 If you're just nitpicking the guy, it's annoying.

00:21:21.580 You look rude.

00:21:22.920 People start to, you know, tune out.

00:21:24.880 It's like, oh, she hates him.

00:21:25.800 So whatever I get.

00:21:26.740 You don't.

00:21:27.420 And like these people inside CNN seem to think that, you know, she should have been like, you ever watch pop up video on VH1?

00:21:33.580 You know, it's like it should have been like a little pop up.

00:21:35.640 It's a lie, too.

00:21:36.760 And that's a lie.

00:21:37.620 Here's why.

00:21:38.180 Don't give them ideas, Megan.

00:21:39.960 The bubble would take over the screen.

00:21:41.780 People are smart enough at home to figure out, OK, I've heard that enough times to know it's got a red flag on it.

00:21:49.880 Anyway, keep going.

00:21:50.500 Go ahead, Camille.

00:21:50.880 Well, no, they certainly don't believe that people are smart enough at home.

00:21:54.700 Their entire theory of the world appears to be that they can, by suppressing the bad people, make the world a better place.

00:22:02.320 And that they can affect electoral outcomes and that they will never, ever have their credibility impaired as a result of this, like, obvious games sort of meddling with the game and the mechanics of the game.

00:22:16.240 But it clearly has impacted their credibility.

00:22:19.200 And there are so many good reasons why it has.

00:22:22.120 And I know we're going to talk about some of those other things later.

00:22:25.240 But that is the fundamental issue here.

00:22:27.400 Like, you imagine that you can simply not talk to these people, that you can simply only give voice to people who already agree, and that you can parrot points of view back at them that they explicitly agree with.

00:22:40.060 And you never, ever talk about the folks on the other side.

00:22:43.680 I mean, I think that that is except to demonize them.

00:22:46.380 And I think that that is an obvious mistake if you're actually interested in persuasion.

00:22:50.240 The fact that you're not, as you just said, Megan, going after every single point and trying to go down the line and interrupt at every moment, you're conserving your fire.

00:23:01.500 You're hopefully making a more persuasive point.

00:23:03.780 You're getting them at their most vulnerable spot.

00:23:06.240 And you should be doing it, quite frankly, across the board to every political and policymaker that shows up on your platform and talk to them in precisely the same way.

00:23:16.760 That is what viewers, I think viewers would reward that.

00:23:19.480 That is what they want.

00:23:21.140 I think Chris Licht is really flailing right now.

00:23:23.520 He's really struggling.

00:23:24.680 He doesn't.

00:23:25.740 He is faced with this really tough problem of the fact that Jeff Zucker turned CNN into a left wing hack job.

00:23:32.820 I mean, it really it had credibility.

00:23:34.540 I said before, it was kind of boring, but it was pretty much down the middle.

00:23:38.320 It had some left wing bias, but not terrible.

00:23:40.300 They did a good job of trying to hide it.

00:23:43.080 And then he turned it into just a left wing rag, basically, on television.

00:23:46.600 And people knew and they drew their drove their Republicans who are watching it away.

00:23:52.600 I, too, I'm an independent, but I watch CNN all the time.

00:23:56.000 They drove me away.

00:23:56.740 I'm like, I can't watch this.

00:23:57.620 This is insufferable.

00:23:59.860 So how do they get me back when they've already told me that they hate, you know, people who think like me?

00:24:05.540 They hate my ideals.

00:24:06.660 They look down on me like I'm not going to watch that.

00:24:09.040 Plus, I don't think they're fact based.

00:24:10.560 That's their other problem.

00:24:11.340 They used to be in there no longer.

00:24:12.860 So this brings me to the programming decisions that Chris Licht is now making.

00:24:17.380 Now, we heard that he's bringing on Gail King and Charles Barkley to host a show.

00:24:22.520 Oh, God, I'll solve it.

00:24:24.520 Problem solved, Megan.

00:24:26.360 OK, that we'll see that.

00:24:28.680 And before that, he brought on Chris Wallace.

00:24:32.380 Now, Jeff Zucker brought him over, I think.

00:24:34.420 Right.

00:24:34.580 It was Jeff Zucker, not Chris.

00:24:35.720 Well, I think so.

00:24:36.300 Track of the firings.

00:24:37.760 But he's there and they put him on Sundays.

00:24:40.400 Chris Wallace had the fourth rated Sunday show on Fox News Sunday.

00:24:43.760 It was not doing well, but it was a fair show.

00:24:46.900 He was by far the fairest of the Sunday anchors.

00:24:49.640 And he was, I think, the toughest questioner.

00:24:52.440 It's just Wallace is a little prickly and has never been a huge hit with the audience.

00:24:57.400 That's just the honest truth, with all due respect to him as a journalist.

00:25:01.020 Then he had the presidential debate, which was very biased, in my opinion, against Trump.

00:25:06.200 And that was the end of it for him and the Fox audience.

00:25:10.200 And so now he goes to CNN and he's going to sort of do nonpolitics.

00:25:15.100 He's going to do more of like, I don't know.

00:25:17.960 It's like Larry King in the softer interviews and not not with politicos.

00:25:21.980 And they put it on Sunday morning.

00:25:23.720 It totally bombs.

00:25:24.700 They got nobody.

00:25:26.400 Then they just moved it to Friday nights.

00:25:29.640 Oh, my God.

00:25:31.040 I mean, Moynihan's dating life in high school had more action than what's happening.

00:25:37.140 You mean he's doing incredibly well?

00:25:39.400 I didn't know his ratings were that high, Megan.

00:25:41.620 Thank you for putting that up.

00:25:42.800 I mean, it's dreadful.

00:25:46.180 He actually lost to Newsmax.

00:25:49.400 Again, Newsmax isn't even in like they've got millions more homes with CNN than they do that have Newsmax.

00:25:55.880 And yet Greg Kelly beat him at 10 p.m. this Friday night.

00:25:59.460 I would submit to the jury.

00:26:01.280 It is because what happened on Friday night were exchanges like the following shown here.

00:26:09.600 Oh, no.

00:26:10.180 Watch.

00:26:11.680 We've got to do that together.

00:26:13.380 The tracks of.

00:26:14.300 Come on.

00:26:15.080 The tracks of my tears.

00:26:17.440 All right.

00:26:18.020 No, please.

00:26:18.900 Hey, man, what are you doing this weekend?

00:26:21.180 Because I'm doing some concerts this weekend.

00:26:23.340 No, you actually want to get people there and not drive them away.

00:26:26.840 Yeah, this is good advice for Chris Lipps, too.

00:26:30.860 Smokey Robinson.

00:26:32.340 He's got a lot of big names.

00:26:34.280 I mean, we.

00:26:35.260 Sure.

00:26:36.060 Oh, God.

00:26:36.880 Who's the guy who played Wolverine?

00:26:38.420 Hugh.

00:26:40.080 Hugh Jackman.

00:26:40.560 Hugh Jackman.

00:26:41.180 Thank you.

00:26:41.540 Hugh Jackman.

00:26:41.940 I just saw him on Broadway.

00:26:44.100 Anyway, he's got a lot of big names, but nobody's watching.

00:26:46.980 Absolutely no one's watching.

00:26:48.140 Like, they don't get it.

00:26:49.520 OK, now this leads me to Fox.

00:26:52.100 OK, because the thing the thing that CNN needs and doesn't have is they need.

00:26:56.840 They need somebody who actually understands what will make who who's our core audience

00:27:03.180 and what will make them tune in.

00:27:05.260 Fox News is going through something similar.

00:27:07.560 They really are.

00:27:08.460 And that leads me to Beth Ailes and an extraordinary tweet.

00:27:12.660 Extraordinary.

00:27:13.320 The widow of Roger Ailes last night tweeted out the following.

00:27:19.800 Happy heavenly birthday, Roger Ailes.

00:27:22.360 It took you 20 years to build Fox News into the powerhouse that it was and only six years

00:27:27.520 for the Murdochs to wreak havoc.

00:27:30.160 Rupert thought he could do your job.

00:27:32.120 What a joke.

00:27:33.340 He has the checkbook, but could never come close to your genius.

00:27:37.340 Rest in peace.

00:27:38.900 Whoa.

00:27:39.400 Whoa.

00:27:40.320 I haven't heard her say anything.

00:27:42.900 Anything at all or since Roger was ousted from Fox and then she weighs in with that.

00:27:50.620 And I got to hand it again to confider or a daily beast and Lachlan Cartwright, who did

00:27:57.600 what journalists are supposed to do.

00:27:59.480 Yeah.

00:27:59.700 He saw the tweet, picked up his phone and he cold called her and got her talking.

00:28:05.240 I mean, literally, I haven't seen this person do an interview in the entire time since Roger

00:28:09.360 was ousted, nevermind, died.

00:28:11.620 And this is what he reports.

00:28:14.120 Confiders saw that tweet immediately cold called Elizabeth and then spent who then spent

00:28:17.660 half an hour absolutely railing against the Murdoch family and their handling of a post

00:28:21.780 Ailes Fox News quote.

00:28:24.040 Roger never had his hand off the wheel when it came to Fox.

00:28:26.920 I agree.

00:28:27.580 Megan Kelly speaking there, contrasting it with the Murdochs, who she said, quote, weren't born

00:28:32.820 here and don't have the same pedigree.

00:28:35.520 Roger was born and he was raised in Ohio, in Youngstown, Ohio, where he dug ditches.

00:28:39.560 For a living.

00:28:40.240 He understood America, middle America.

00:28:42.960 He understood the coastal elites.

00:28:44.460 He knew exactly who the audience was and what the need was for Fox News to be born in

00:28:48.140 the first place.

00:28:48.920 And he did have his hands on the steering wheel 10 and 2 the entire time, mostly because

00:28:52.860 this thing pulls to the left, as he used to say about news, but also because it can pull

00:28:57.160 too far to the right.

00:28:58.480 And Roger knew when to course correct when that happened, too.

00:29:01.940 She goes on to say about Lachlan Murdoch.

00:29:05.120 I was told he's a spear fisherman.

00:29:06.800 I don't know if he spends time in the office.

00:29:08.440 This is one of the criticisms of him, that when he came in and took over, what he really

00:29:12.440 wanted to do was run the movie studios, not be stuck at 1211 6th Avenue running, you know,

00:29:16.800 the cable operation, which isn't as sexy as the Hollywood stars.

00:29:20.880 Recalled that Roger used to refer to Brothers James and Lachlan as Tweedledum and Tweedledummer,

00:29:25.140 respectively.

00:29:25.980 I can also confirm that, having heard it many times from Roger Ailes.

00:29:28.700 But she saved most of her ire for the patriarch, Rupert, whom she described as a jealous man

00:29:35.140 who fired her husband because Roger eclipsed Rupert on the world stage.

00:29:40.420 Now I've got some thoughts on that, too.

00:29:43.020 She likened Tucker Carlson's firing to her late husband's ouster, claiming the Murdochs

00:29:47.940 figured out how to chop off his head when he became too big.

00:29:53.480 This is fascinating.

00:29:56.520 She knew Roger better than anyone.

00:29:58.440 And I have to say, she's got some very valid points in there, guys, about what she's essentially

00:30:03.100 saying is it took six years for Fox News to collapse in its core mission from the time

00:30:07.800 Roger was ousted, that no one other than Roger has been able to do it and that the Murdochs

00:30:13.220 don't have the vision or the desire or the capability to make it happen.

00:30:17.360 What do you think?

00:30:18.260 It's been amazing.

00:30:19.460 However, I think that's a managerial, it's accurate or plausible from a managerial standpoint.

00:30:25.680 We've heard that about the Murdoch kids forever.

00:30:27.540 There's always been a succession battle and Roger Ailes for those.

00:30:31.340 And I never met him.

00:30:32.160 I worked for him as Camille, you know, in theory.

00:30:35.340 But he was the genius.

00:30:38.420 People from the outside who are always like, oh, God, Murdoch over at Fox News.

00:30:42.400 As long as Roger Ailes was alive, that wasn't the issue that you really had.

00:30:46.680 The issue was Roger Ailes.

00:30:48.220 He ran the place.

00:30:49.040 It was his vision.

00:30:49.760 It was his idea.

00:30:51.000 Fox has kept most of its audience until very recently.

00:30:54.160 That's the area in which her complaints or her analysis, I think, needs to be complicated.

00:31:00.260 That and also she said that Eric Bolling was part of the people who got fired because he

00:31:03.600 was too big.

00:31:04.100 I don't think that was the problem with Eric Bolling.

00:31:05.620 No, with respect to Eric, no.

00:31:07.640 Was it too big?

00:31:08.560 Is that what Eric complained?

00:31:09.240 No, don't.

00:31:10.380 I told you.

00:31:11.300 Come on.

00:31:12.040 Come on.

00:31:12.820 Let me do it.

00:31:13.720 Go ahead.

00:31:14.300 Deep cut.

00:31:14.740 Oh, I love Eric.

00:31:17.660 But managerially, I think that there's absolutely something to that.

00:31:24.260 You can tell from outside the building, and I have no intel on the inside, but that it lacks

00:31:29.840 the same kind of cohesive managerial structure.

00:31:32.500 You knew Roger Ailes was in charge.

00:31:34.220 You worked at his behest, and you worked, and his vision was out there every single day

00:31:39.760 in one way or the other.

00:31:40.820 I'm not sure what that vision is now, and I think that people do become kind of too big

00:31:46.240 or too not controllable by the Murdochs because they don't have their hands on the system the

00:31:52.300 same way.

00:31:53.260 Suzanne Scott doesn't command the same kind of respect within the building, I don't think.

00:31:59.420 I would guess that Roger Ailes did.

00:32:02.100 I'm being nice.

00:32:03.240 So I think it's fascinating that she's talking and that she's dishing, and it points to,

00:32:11.360 I think, the most plausible theory still to me so far of Tucker Carlson's firing was that

00:32:16.440 he'd built a center of independence from the managerial team within, and they couldn't have

00:32:21.640 that.

00:32:22.140 That plus all the lawsuits were probably starting to get a little bit difficult around the edges,

00:32:25.360 but I think it seems like that attitude from the Murdochs is one that they're going to continue

00:32:31.620 to revisit.

00:32:32.440 As soon as someone becomes sort of problematic, they become bigger than Fox in their point

00:32:35.960 of view, then they can get rid of them.

00:32:38.880 And at some point, and that point might be now with Carlson's audience in that hour, they

00:32:44.580 will start to finally lose audience because up to now, they've still managed to kind of win

00:32:49.180 their basic business.

00:32:50.820 And look, there's something you can't, there's no answer to this, obviously, of what would

00:32:55.700 Roger Ailes have done.

00:32:57.020 But, you know, Roger Ailes, for all of his many faults, was a political genius at television,

00:33:04.040 a political television genius, a very specific thing.

00:33:06.140 If you go back and read Joe McGinnis's book from 1968, The Selling of the President, I mean,

00:33:10.720 who is the key player in that who is trying to kind of make Nixon a kind of TV guy?

00:33:16.700 In watching Roger Ailes as a young man in that book, you're like, man, this guy is really

00:33:21.420 something.

00:33:22.400 He's kind of a magician.

00:33:23.480 And he did that at Fox for a very long time.

00:33:25.840 He saw a market opportunity.

00:33:26.960 There was a big glaring hole in the market and he filled it.

00:33:29.620 And the one thing, the what if, though, is, you know, Roger Ailes dies in 2017.

00:33:35.940 How do you handle the Trump phenomenon as a, you know, a news organization that leans right?

00:33:42.480 Because this is the complete blowing up of the traditional Republican Party coalition.

00:33:46.880 And, you know, Roger, as you as you said, Megan, was somebody who kept a check on on,

00:33:51.800 you know, going too far to the right.

00:33:53.020 And it fires Glenn Beck when he's the highest rated guy on the network because he's scribbling

00:33:57.940 on chalkboards and looking a bit crazy, to be honest.

00:34:01.080 And I think Roger acknowledged that and said, you know, no more of this.

00:34:05.200 So I really wonder.

00:34:06.180 I just to say that the current I don't you're not a huge fan of Suzanne Scott.

00:34:11.300 And I think last time on the show, you told me, which I didn't know, that she used to

00:34:15.420 run hair and makeup, which I think is pretty interesting.

00:34:17.880 But I don't think that she's doing a great job over there.

00:34:20.920 But at the same time, I'm just to be nice to everyone in this is that it is a very, very

00:34:25.520 tough time to take over when you look at Republican politics and how much they've changed in the

00:34:30.600 kind of populist, like like re let's say revivification of the Republican Party is this populist thing.

00:34:38.060 How to do that on television is pretty tough.

00:34:39.960 It was a lot easier when it was kind of Bush Republicans versus sort of ordinary Democrats.

00:34:45.480 Now you have these AOC populist and you have the Trump populist end and it confuses things.

00:34:50.660 So, I mean, I don't know.

00:34:51.720 He would have known how to do it.

00:34:52.880 She is right about instinct.

00:34:54.540 I suspect she's right that Rupert doesn't have the instinct for what to do right now with

00:34:58.780 this audience and Roger absolutely would have.

00:35:02.400 He would have understood.

00:35:03.160 I worked with him.

00:35:04.000 Let me tell you something right now.

00:35:05.520 Suzanne Scott and Bill Shine used to run over to me because I met with Roger all the time

00:35:09.440 and they'd say, what did he say?

00:35:11.060 What did he say about this?

00:35:11.680 What did he say about that?

00:35:12.360 He didn't share anything with them.

00:35:14.100 She has absolutely no tutelage to call back on because he didn't mentor her.

00:35:18.160 He didn't mentor any of his executives.

00:35:20.120 He wanted to keep them unsteady.

00:35:21.240 He had zero desire to share his leadership vision with any of them.

00:35:24.720 I guarantee you I know more about it than she does.

00:35:26.840 I guarantee you.

00:35:27.640 He would have understood that he would have to fold in Trump's views to the core programming

00:35:34.060 in a way that was defensive of them while trying to hold on to their national review

00:35:38.500 flank.

00:35:39.300 He had already come to understand that even though he was against Trump's populism, he

00:35:43.340 understood the channels to one dimensional in its coverage of Republican politics.

00:35:47.880 And we're going to lose our Ohio ditch digging flank in favor of the national reviewers if

00:35:53.560 we don't do something about what's on our air right now.

00:35:56.200 And that's when he started to bring in more contributors who were pro-Trump and saying

00:36:00.140 what Trump was saying.

00:36:01.500 And, you know, a lot of people internally were like, what are you doing?

00:36:03.380 Why are we doing that?

00:36:04.380 He's like out of respect for the audience.

00:36:06.360 He understood it before anybody else did.

00:36:08.440 And he would have navigated the Trump presidency perfectly.

00:36:10.920 I really have no doubt of that.

00:36:13.000 Roger's problems were never that he didn't get the audience, that he didn't have a genius

00:36:17.400 ability to program both when it came to content and selecting talent.

00:36:21.340 What ultimately brought him down was a combination of what she said and a real problem with women.

00:36:27.520 And I've thought about this a lot.

00:36:29.520 And I've talked to Janice Dean about it a lot.

00:36:31.140 And she was one of the women who came forward and worked with me to make sure women understood

00:36:35.300 that we were talking and that it was safe to talk.

00:36:37.840 Um, I think we both believe that while there were some two dozen women who came forward

00:36:44.420 with complaints about Ailes, some that were deeply disturbing.

00:36:48.100 All right.

00:36:48.320 Let me just reassure the audience of that.

00:36:50.000 This wasn't like a passing remark like he may have made to Gretchen Carlson.

00:36:55.360 Some people were really harassed in a way that was dark.

00:36:59.140 Okay.

00:36:59.840 And abused.

00:37:01.620 Um, so that was a real problem.

00:37:03.920 But I do think she's right that it was used.

00:37:07.280 It was used to get rid of him by a family.

00:37:11.560 I mean, in particular, the sons who wanted him gone.

00:37:14.400 I don't think Rupert wanted Roger gone, though.

00:37:16.660 I don't think it was Rupert.

00:37:17.680 I think it was the sons who were ready for him to move on.

00:37:21.000 And Gretchen filed that lawsuit.

00:37:22.780 And then the rest of us came forward and they saw an opportunity.

00:37:25.740 And that was the end of Roger.

00:37:27.320 And, you know, there's some sort of.

00:37:30.500 I don't know.

00:37:31.200 It makes me feel sad that I and maybe others were used in that way.

00:37:37.480 But I also can't say I regret it because there's no way he could have stayed in that office.

00:37:41.880 There's no way a man doing that many bad things to that many young women who just are trying

00:37:45.660 to make it in journalism should have remained in power.

00:37:48.600 No way.

00:37:50.300 That part is omitted from her tweet.

00:37:52.540 Yeah, to step away from the person of Roger for a moment and to speak to this kind of broader question of how things might have played out differently.

00:38:02.100 Were someone like him in the media ecosystem and able to help shepherd a network through the Trump era and the transformation of the Republican Party in particular.

00:38:13.260 It is interesting to imagine what the dustups might have looked like with a network boss and Donald Trump once he got this, once he was unhappy with what he was seeing on the network and sort of started to throw darts.

00:38:28.620 I think that if nothing else can kind of push your buttons in a very particular way and create a climate of concern inside of the network, you could see people making all sorts of kind of panic decisions about the sort of programming and people who ought to be there.

00:38:44.180 Um, and, uh, perhaps having that kind of genuine fear about whether or not the audience might actually defect from them, which is the sort of stuff that you actually saw talked about openly in those text messages that came out, um, during the, the, the recent legal proceedings.

00:39:00.660 Dominion.

00:39:01.120 Yeah, that's exactly right.

00:39:02.360 Well, I think that was another opportunity for somebody to steer the boat, you know, and steadily and they didn't have it.

00:39:08.520 You know, she points out the Dominion lawsuit.

00:39:10.500 That was one thing that was mishandled.

00:39:11.740 The aftermath after the election and the, you know, false election claims.

00:39:16.360 And I'll tell you, I've said this before, but one thing Roger would have done was protect the news division, which hasn't happened here.

00:39:20.500 They have not been protected.

00:39:21.660 And that was the one and main and most important source of Fox's credibility.

00:39:25.420 And they've sacrificed it.

00:39:26.980 There's no one's protecting them.

00:39:28.720 They fired Chris Dyerwald and Bill Salmon, two of the best respected journalists behind the scenes in Fox News as a pander.

00:39:36.420 But then they got rid of their most beloved host who was out there giving voice to a whole line of contrary thinking, contrarian thinking that wasn't espoused anyplace.

00:39:46.140 They don't know what they're doing.

00:39:47.640 They don't understand the mission as Roger believed it to be when he launched the channel back in 1996.

00:39:54.020 It's also worth pointing out that when you fire Chris Dyerwald, who's a brilliant guy and an interesting guy, and Bill Salmon, who's been somebody around the kind of conservative firmament for a long time at The Washington Times, The Examiner, etc.

00:40:09.000 It's a sop to who?

00:40:10.920 Nobody who's angry about this notices that.

00:40:13.880 Yes, anybody who's even marginally involved in politics, they don't know who these people are.

00:40:17.620 So why bother doing it?

00:40:19.520 I mean, what Roger Ailes had, the other thing was the luck, in some sense, of not having a lot of places where people could defect to.

00:40:29.240 I'm not sure if Chris Ruddy had started Newsmax at that point.

00:40:32.220 The magazine had been around for a long time, the website, too.

00:40:35.060 But once there was actually another place for people to go, two other places, you know, OAN, which is the real kind of extreme end of this,

00:40:42.360 and Newsmax, which is sort of, you know, more towards the Fox end, but more with the populist tinge,

00:40:48.500 that is something that the new bosses have to contend with.

00:40:52.060 And you see that in Tucker Carlson's text when they say, you know, we're going to lose our audience here.

00:40:57.000 You didn't have to have that conversation before.

00:40:59.160 Where are they going to go?

00:41:00.020 CNN?

00:41:01.200 MSNBC?

00:41:01.600 And I think, Megan, it's pure speculation that it's right that I think that Roger Ailes, seeing what he had done,

00:41:08.000 I mean, I didn't know the guy as you did, that in, by the way,

00:41:10.720 it's also pretty interesting and admirable from a journalistic perspective that you separate the art from the artist, in a way.

00:41:16.760 And, you know, because all the stuff that you went through with him and actually talking about him as a kind of media guy

00:41:22.880 and as kind of a media genius in the way that he was and throughout his whole career.

00:41:26.360 But, you know, it seems to me that that balance is something that is a difficult thing to do,

00:41:32.380 that, as you put it, the sort of National Review wing, the kind of more traditional free market conservative wing,

00:41:38.180 and the populist one, that balance is possible.

00:41:41.280 It's not one or the other.

00:41:42.700 And Tucker was a huge part of that balance.

00:41:45.060 If you like him or you don't like him, that was where those people were being satiated at Fox.

00:41:50.120 And you get rid of him, I just don't know what the hell you're doing.

00:41:53.060 It just doesn't make a hell of a lot of sense to me.

00:41:54.960 Yes, you're so right.

00:41:56.360 I would never take away, and never did take away, Roger's genius.

00:42:00.140 And, you know, one thing I'll say about that movie Bombshell,

00:42:02.140 I've been critical of Charlize Theron this week for other reasons,

00:42:04.640 but one thing I'll say about that movie was I thought they did a good job in capturing

00:42:08.060 that I really cared for Roger.

00:42:11.200 I cared for him deeply.

00:42:13.300 He was a mentor to me.

00:42:15.320 He really helped me throughout the course of my journalism career,

00:42:19.420 and I learned a ton from him.

00:42:22.100 And, you know, I would not have the career I have right now had it not been for his help.

00:42:26.860 And I don't even just mean the opportunities he gave me.

00:42:29.800 I mean also just the advice he gave me.

00:42:31.820 And he showed me how to cover news in a fair and balanced way.

00:42:35.920 But, you know, but I also wasn't going to lie on his behalf.

00:42:40.540 I wasn't going to lie.

00:42:41.520 I had a feeling I might not be the only one.

00:42:44.320 And when the issue was put to me directly, is he capable of this?

00:42:48.080 There was just no way I was going to lie, not given my own history,

00:42:50.520 not given my time as a lawyer, not given my affinity for the women I worked with,

00:42:55.220 and not knowing what I knew, which was that at least Janice Dean had a story like mine, too.

00:43:00.360 So it was just an impossible situation.

00:43:02.720 And I really feel like the reverberations from all that we went through at Fox

00:43:07.660 back in 16 when this happened, we're still watching play out.

00:43:12.620 It's still there percolating.

00:43:15.220 And Beth Ailes' tweet raised it again in a way that I thought was, you know,

00:43:19.840 rang true on, let's say, 90 percent of what she wrote.

00:43:24.000 All right, stand by, you guys.

00:43:25.080 Quick break and then more with the fifth column.

00:43:27.440 They stay with us for the show.

00:43:33.280 Guys, as if on cue, as we are deconstructing the media situation right now,

00:43:38.020 Barack Obama weighs in on what the real problem is right now,

00:43:42.160 the thing that scares him the most.

00:43:44.320 In an interview that aired today on CBS This Morning, listen to this.

00:43:48.900 Post-presidency, what about this country keeps you up at night?

00:43:52.360 The thing that I'm most worried about is the degree to which we now have a divided conversation,

00:44:04.640 in part because we have a divided media.

00:44:07.840 But when I was coming up, you had three TV stations.

00:44:10.740 Yeah.

00:44:10.920 And people were getting a similar sense of what is true and what isn't, what was real and what was not.

00:44:17.880 Today, what I'm most concerned about is the fact that because of the splintering of the media,

00:44:23.320 we almost occupy different realities.

00:44:27.940 Remember the good old days when he controlled everyone?

00:44:32.200 Thankfully, he never could.

00:44:33.340 Every single bit of alternative journalism, we've forgotten about this now because all journalism for a while,

00:44:40.500 under Roger Ailes, he created an alternative form of journalism.

00:44:43.440 Before that, there was the alternative form of journalism of AM Talk Radio,

00:44:47.860 which was overwhelmingly conservative.

00:44:50.160 Some of the early internet under Andrew Breitbart and other people, Drudge Report, was right of center.

00:44:55.320 So people in their minds and the media think of alternative journalism now as being kind of right of center.

00:45:01.000 But in fact, the early alternative journalism, a lot of it was left wing.

00:45:04.920 It was the village voice.

00:45:06.420 It was all the underground papers of the 60s.

00:45:08.600 It was Rolling Stone magazine.

00:45:10.440 It was left of the center.

00:45:12.760 It was a critique of how much the best and the brightest generation had screwed up.

00:45:18.620 They had taken this perceived legitimacy and greatness,

00:45:22.040 and they had absolutely screwed the pooch all over the country again and again and again.

00:45:26.420 And so to harken back to that time is to harken back to being self-bamboozled.

00:45:33.100 And it's disreputable.

00:45:35.120 We should like as much chaos and innovation and growth in media.

00:45:41.800 And if you don't like the way that people lie and have alternative realities,

00:45:44.940 when you were in political power, stop lying.

00:45:47.300 I wish you would have done that.

00:45:48.520 He didn't.

00:45:49.680 What about it, guys?

00:45:50.500 We'd still be in masks and having no negative reporting about side effects from the vaccine.

00:45:55.920 And we would still be believing that Trump colluded with Russia.

00:46:00.100 We'll get to the Durham report in our next block if it weren't for alternative sources of media,

00:46:04.580 if it were the way it was in the good old days that he's referring to.

00:46:08.580 Everything that he said was true up until that.

00:46:10.900 I mean, we do have a divided conversation.

00:46:12.340 We do have a divided media.

00:46:13.360 I don't think that's a bad thing.

00:46:14.540 He does seem to think that's a bad thing.

00:46:16.020 And I'm not somebody that harkens back and is nostalgic for this sort of corporate control

00:46:21.080 of three major networks plus PBS.

00:46:23.160 I don't think that was a good thing.

00:46:24.620 And I think the freedom that the internet has given people scares the establishment.

00:46:29.020 That's why they want to de-platform people and push people off of YouTube and put them on.

00:46:34.120 That's why Rumble comes up.

00:46:35.720 If this was not true, if it was not true that there was one direction that the media drifted in the past,

00:46:41.200 when these opportunities came up, they would not have been filled,

00:46:44.160 as Matt pointed out, by the Drudge Report, by Fox News, by blogs, by podcasts.

00:46:49.680 And that's why it happened, because we knew which direction it was going,

00:46:53.420 and people wanted a different perspective, and they got it.

00:46:56.000 And that's great.

00:46:56.600 Yep, exactly right.

00:46:57.880 All right, we're going to pick it up there.

00:46:59.000 And when we come back, we will deconstruct.

00:47:01.020 I love that leftist term.

00:47:03.300 The Durham report and tell you what's happening with that.

00:47:06.180 It's actually just so embarrassing for the FBI, for Andrew McCabe, and for Jim Comey in particular.

00:47:10.980 Uh, and now we know the source of the Trump pee tape rumors.

00:47:16.020 We know who got it started.

00:47:16.980 We know who, uh, leaked it and who seemed to work hard to get it into this deal dossier.

00:47:21.880 And wait until you hear who he's connected with.

00:47:24.420 Fifth column, guys, stay with us.

00:47:25.780 And don't forget, folks, you can find The Megyn Kelly Show live on Sirius XM Triumph Channel 111

00:47:30.600 every weekday at noon east.

00:47:32.300 The full video and show and clips by subscribing to our YouTube channel, youtube.com slash megankelly.

00:47:37.820 And if you want to hear from me on Fridays, I send you a fun email.

00:47:40.420 Just go to megankelly.com and you can sign up for it there.

00:47:43.560 It's getting lots of great traffic and I read all of your emails.

00:47:50.060 Okay, guys, so the Durham report is out.

00:47:53.600 Um, this is actually, I think it's interesting.

00:47:56.240 You know, it's not like earth shattering, but it's disgusting.

00:47:58.800 I mean, what he concluded is disgusting and he's suggesting he probably would have brought

00:48:02.980 criminal charges, more criminal charges if he could try anybody outside of Washington,

00:48:07.340 D.C., where, you know, it was 95% for Hillary, 95% for Biden.

00:48:11.460 There's zero chance of convictions there.

00:48:13.320 He tried it a couple of times.

00:48:15.120 Um, so I don't think the fact that there are no criminal cases coming out of this tells us much.

00:48:20.420 And I'm actually fine with it, too, because we don't really want to become a banana republic

00:48:24.040 where as soon as the one guy's out of the office, we start arresting everybody, uh, who worked for him.

00:48:28.800 So, okay, that's fine.

00:48:30.300 But that is not to dismiss the substance of what this guy found.

00:48:34.800 Now, his investigation was launched in 2019 under Attorney General Bill Barr,

00:48:39.400 and he was looking into the origins of the FBI's investigation of Trump,

00:48:44.080 the so-called Crossfire Hurricane FBI investigation to see whether Trump colluded with Russia

00:48:51.100 in the context of getting elected.

00:48:53.480 We now know he didn't.

00:48:56.160 We now know that the FBI knew he didn't, but tried to cobble together an investigation anyway

00:49:01.980 because they so hated Trump.

00:49:04.560 And Durham finally comes up.

00:49:06.320 Durham, keep in mind, Durham was praised by both sides as a no-nonsense straight shooter

00:49:10.380 when he got selected, right?

00:49:12.060 The left had no problem with John Durham being selected to do this.

00:49:15.480 Now they're like, oh, John Durham sucks.

00:49:17.840 But this is what he reported in a 300-page report released yesterday.

00:49:22.820 The DOJ and the FBI failed to uphold their mission of strict fidelity to the law

00:49:27.900 in looking into these allegations and figuring out whether there was a case to be had against Trump

00:49:32.620 and in the conduct of that investigation.

00:49:34.900 The FBI used raw, unanalyzed, and uncorroborated intelligence.

00:49:39.580 This senior, I'm quoting, senior FBI personnel displayed a serious lack of analytical rigor

00:49:45.760 towards information that they received, especially information received from politically affiliated

00:49:50.440 persons and entities.

00:49:52.020 And he means Hillary.

00:49:53.360 That's what he means, the Hillary Clinton campaign.

00:49:55.820 The department did not adequately examine or question these materials

00:49:59.260 and the motivations of those providing them.

00:50:02.800 They did not and could not corroborate any of the substantive allegations contained in the

00:50:08.880 controversial Steele dossier.

00:50:11.300 That's the thing that alleged Trump went over to Russia, hired some Russian prostitutes and

00:50:16.320 had them pee on a bed in the presidential suite that Barack Obama had allegedly stayed in years

00:50:21.820 earlier, among other things in that Steele dossier, which has been totally discredited.

00:50:26.080 He writes, we conclude that the Justice Department and FBI failed to uphold their important mission

00:50:32.560 of strict fidelity to the law in connection with certain events and activities described

00:50:37.060 in this report.

00:50:39.140 However, it does not recommend any wholesale changes in the guidelines and policies

00:50:42.940 at DOJ or FBI that they now have in place to ensure proper conduct and accountability

00:50:48.520 in how counterintelligence activities are carried out.

00:50:52.140 Andrew McCabe was the guy in charge of counterintelligence.

00:50:55.040 He's now absolutely a darling of the left, and there will be no accountability for him publicly

00:50:59.060 for what he did, sicking the FBI on the Trump campaign, sicking the FBI on people like Carter

00:51:04.700 Page, Papadopoulos, who this makes clear they knew there was nothing there, there that this

00:51:10.880 is based on the flimsiest evidence ever to go after those guys and get warrants from the

00:51:14.380 FISA court.

00:51:15.200 And they absolutely understood they didn't have it, but they wanted to get him anyway.

00:51:19.900 There are quotes of Peter Strzok at the time inside saying essentially exactly that.

00:51:24.540 Uh, and just to, just to tell you what I teased before the break, uh, they also report that

00:51:31.000 the person behind the infamous P rumor that Trump did that in the Russian hotel was none

00:51:36.300 other.

00:51:36.700 According to Durham, he believes it was PR exec and Clinton ally, Charles Dolan, that Charles

00:51:43.720 Dolan is the one who provided this information to this Igor Denchenko who got it into the steel

00:51:49.720 dossier and Charles Dolan working, uh, in close with Hillary went over to Russia.

00:51:55.740 He went into the hotel, he got a tour of the presidential suite, uh, and that's where it

00:52:00.580 was born that, that rumor, which was totally unsubstantiated.

00:52:03.860 Durham actually went over there and spoke with all the witnesses in the hotel.

00:52:06.620 He actually did his homework.

00:52:08.060 It wasn't true.

00:52:09.080 It never happened.

00:52:09.860 And indeed Trump, the one time he stayed in that hotel did not stay in the presidential

00:52:13.580 suite.

00:52:14.180 He stayed in an entirely different room.

00:52:15.980 The whole thing was made up and then it was saddled on Trump, uh, in, in such a way that

00:52:22.800 still has his supporters believing, not without foundation, that his first term was stolen from

00:52:29.600 him having to deal with this nonsense, which was a fabrication by Hillary and a compliant,

00:52:37.640 complicit FBI.

00:52:40.060 What do you guys make of it?

00:52:41.240 There's a, uh, uh, a phrase that people use in the media, oftentimes the ones who are, uh,

00:52:48.240 crying at CNN platforming Donald Trump, where that, uh, they perceive Trump and certain people

00:52:53.940 in the conservative movement of, they accuse them of working the refs of taking the existing

00:52:59.640 standards that are supposed to be kind of objective or supposed to be fair and knowing that people

00:53:05.280 have to kind of report to or respond to factual stimulus or controversies in such a way that

00:53:11.860 you can launder things that are not true.

00:53:13.560 I'm struck by that because I've been hearing that for most of my career.

00:53:17.100 Um, and this is that in action in the absolute opposite way of the people who normally talk

00:53:23.400 about that.

00:53:23.940 This is people working the levers of the FBI and of the national security apparatus who

00:53:28.640 know those levers, who know how it's done.

00:53:30.720 And they successfully planted a piece of hot steaming garbage in the middle of a campaign.

00:53:35.700 Recall that Hillary Clinton was in that, uh, uh, a presidential debate, like, uh, calling

00:53:40.800 Donald Trump a puppet of Vladimir Putin.

00:53:43.420 Of course, you're like, no, you're the puppet.

00:53:44.760 And so it became, that was what people pointed.

00:53:47.400 But Hillary Clinton called him a puppet of Vladimir Putin in a presidential debate.

00:53:53.420 This is how she approached it.

00:53:54.800 And she's someone who would, you know, you would think that she would know having been,

00:53:58.240 uh, been, uh, in, in, uh, the, in government for so long and in those positions.

00:54:03.620 Um, it's appalling as is the media's response to this.

00:54:07.900 Even today, Oliver Darcy, who we talked about last hour, um, in his newsletter this morning,

00:54:12.540 which the little tagline at the top is I'm still here.

00:54:15.180 So he's being brave, um, inside of CNN.

00:54:17.800 Um, he dismisses this as, you know, a conservative said that this was going to bring arrests.

00:54:22.920 It's, it didn't.

00:54:23.680 And so, you know, uh, yet another, a report that just doesn't, uh, deliver on promises.

00:54:28.540 Well, that's one way a media reporter might look at this.

00:54:30.860 I might suggest there's another way a media reporter might look at this is, I don't know,

00:54:34.820 look at one of the many, many, many super clips out there on Twitter.

00:54:38.480 Tom Elliott is someone who does these, uh, every day.

00:54:41.220 It seems like, uh, people on MSNBC, uh, people like Adam Schiff, people like Rachel Maddow

00:54:46.780 and all of these deep state liars.

00:54:49.880 And I'm now just saying former, you know, people, heads of the CIA and, and the former

00:54:55.120 directors of the national intelligence, people, uh, who have been given contributor contracts

00:54:58.860 on cable news networks, just lying about this and saying, and intimating, not just that the

00:55:03.980 Steele dossier is, is true, but the pee tape stuff, which is absurd on its face.

00:55:07.840 If you knew anything about Donald Trump, and I tried not to, but I knew that he was a germaphobe.

00:55:12.040 Germaphobes don't like getting peed on from what I understand.

00:55:14.480 Um, uh, you would think that this would be an occasion for people who ever said anything

00:55:20.460 that wasn't true about this, whoever said, well, look, you know, these people probably

00:55:24.380 know what they're talking about.

00:55:25.340 And so you would think that would be the time that they would look at that and say, gosh,

00:55:29.540 I was a little bit wrong there.

00:55:30.820 No, they're saying that Republicans are pouncing that it didn't, uh, deliver on the promises.

00:55:35.380 Um, this is shameful.

00:55:36.940 This is what extends people's long, uh, growing distrust in media and the way this was done.

00:55:43.080 This is a pretty bad episode in American intelligence and law enforcement and media,

00:55:48.300 and it's not getting better judging by the early reaction to it.

00:55:52.420 Shame on you, Matt Welch.

00:55:53.680 Why are you protecting him?

00:55:55.000 Why are you protecting him?

00:55:55.940 Why won't you tell the truth about the, uh, the Venturian president?

00:55:59.620 Um, it, it really is extraordinary to watch, um, like, uh, Rachel Maddow talk about this

00:56:04.340 and talk about all of the Republican excitement and how they were waiting for all of the indictments.

00:56:09.100 They were waiting for the revelations of the huge scandal, um, when there is another scandal

00:56:14.320 that is worth talking about here.

00:56:15.960 And I do think that while it is, it is egregious that politics was permitted to creep into a

00:56:21.380 criminal investigation.

00:56:22.080 And I think that the recommendations in particular in the Durham report, um, are, are seemingly quite,

00:56:28.140 quite sensible and sane, incredibly reasonable.

00:56:30.800 Um, and the highlighting of concern around the FBI impugning its own reputation in this

00:56:36.060 way, um, as a result of this, um, kind of botched investigation, totally sensible.

00:56:41.980 I didn't hear any of those things get responded to instead.

00:56:45.120 It was only the kind of hysterical overstatement on the part of Donald Trump.

00:56:50.200 And this is in a way him giving them a cudgel with which to beat him promise that this would

00:56:55.080 be, you know, the gravest crime of the century and that heads would roll, et cetera, et cetera.

00:56:59.160 It didn't turn out to be that.

00:57:00.800 And that is one reason perhaps why it's prudent to allow these investigations to take shape

00:57:05.880 than to deal with the revelations when they come out.

00:57:08.020 I understand I'm perhaps a bit naive because that's not how politics is played, but it might

00:57:12.180 have, might've been better.

00:57:13.520 At least then you'd be in a better position to appropriately and on the merits impugn people,

00:57:19.720 um, like Rachel Maddow, who were way out over their skis, promising that the other shoe was

00:57:25.480 about to drop with respect to this story.

00:57:27.120 I mean, these are the people who should be the most embarrassed by these revelations and

00:57:31.080 quite frankly, outraged by the fact that people in the intelligence community have at different

00:57:35.720 times, like double down on these, uh, these narratives, uh, about the president being in

00:57:41.440 bed with Vladimir Putin and being controlled by Vladimir Putin.

00:57:44.700 And it's the sort of thing that we would hear over and over and over again.

00:57:48.080 Um, and it's, it's taken a while for, for this report to materialize, uh, but having waited

00:57:54.100 so long, I'm not going to be the one who's comparing the number of indictments between

00:57:58.460 this and the Mueller report, which people also waited for with bated breath, because that

00:58:03.020 isn't the measure of whether or not this is credible and worthwhile.

00:58:06.720 I mean, the fact that this never quite panned out, that they never had any sort of corroboration

00:58:12.300 of the stuff in the steel dossier, which they used to secure warrants for spying on American

00:58:17.740 citizens.

00:58:18.180 Like that is egregious.

00:58:20.180 The people, people should be materially outraged about this on the left and the right.

00:58:24.860 It should be the sort of thing that we don't want to see repeated again, but instead there

00:58:28.820 are particular kinds of people who are happy to ignore this or to downplay it, uh, because

00:58:33.980 it is consistent with their politics to do so.

00:58:37.820 They can't, the press cannot be outraged because they were, they were willing participants in

00:58:44.340 it.

00:58:44.500 They allowed themselves unquestioningly to be used.

00:58:49.300 So the, the FBI gets the steel dossier full of lies based on the sourcing we just discussed

00:58:55.120 and leaks it to the press.

00:58:57.180 Then the press writes articles about the steel dossier, which have no skepticism in them whatsoever.

00:59:02.780 Then the FBI uses those press articles to go into the FISA court to say, look at the press

00:59:09.480 reports about what's happened, what's in the steel dossier and what's out there and gets

00:59:13.400 warrants to spy on private American citizens based on that rope-a-dope in which the press

00:59:19.220 willingly participated.

00:59:21.140 Meanwhile, we now know that, you know, flash forward a few years when Trump's, um, he's running

00:59:28.480 for reelection and Biden's running for election and we're days before the election and the

00:59:33.680 Hunter Biden laptop drops.

00:59:35.620 And we now know that's that the CIA was running around trying to get former intelligence and

00:59:39.580 counterintelligence officials to sign onto that dopey letter, which was full of lies.

00:59:43.540 That's the CIA, the FBI and the DOJ.

00:59:46.440 Now you would be called a conspiracy theorist.

00:59:48.460 If without this evidence, without the Durham report, without this reporting that has outed

00:59:52.640 these guys, you said, oh, that's deep state.

00:59:55.340 They're in on it.

00:59:56.420 You know, they're trying to bring down Donald Trump.

00:59:57.940 It's true.

00:59:59.200 You know what?

00:59:59.600 Can we just run the Barack Obama soundbite one more time?

01:00:02.180 Let's just run.

01:00:02.960 This is why he's so wrong.

01:00:05.260 This is why we desperately need alternative media sources as opposed to his three chosen

01:00:09.940 ABC, CBS and NBC.

01:00:11.400 None of whom was questioning these reports as they were being delivered.

01:00:16.340 They were reveling in them.

01:00:17.900 Listen to him again.

01:00:19.720 Post presidency.

01:00:21.020 What about this country keeps you up at night?

01:00:23.980 The thing that I'm most worried about is the degree to which we've now have a divided

01:00:33.860 conversation, in part because we have a divided media.

01:00:38.360 But when I was coming up, you had three TV stations.

01:00:41.600 Yeah.

01:00:41.960 And people were getting a similar sense of what is true and what isn't, what was real

01:00:47.660 and what was not.

01:00:48.660 Today, what I'm most concerned about is the fact that because of the splintering of the

01:00:53.740 media, we almost occupy different realities.

01:00:57.340 Wow.

01:01:00.020 Talk about not accurately assessing the problem when it comes to American communication right

01:01:05.420 now.

01:01:06.400 Maybe back when Walter Cronkite was on.

01:01:08.440 I don't know.

01:01:08.780 I was too young.

01:01:09.300 I know everybody loved him, but the media we had prior to the birth of alternative media

01:01:13.380 was not it was not a trustworthy media.

01:01:16.000 And we should not be hearkening back to those days.

01:01:19.160 Well, if you look at, you know, the media that we're seeing now and Matt has pointed

01:01:23.120 out that there are people who are making these sort of collections of clips.

01:01:26.940 And I apologize for my image being frozen because the FBI is on to me and the deep state is trying

01:01:32.520 to get my connection.

01:01:33.600 It's very, very frustrating.

01:01:35.220 But, you know, it's it's an amazing thing because, you know, you have somebody from the

01:01:39.600 FBI like Peter Strzok.

01:01:40.820 And I saw this today.

01:01:42.060 These are people who are referring to Donald Trump as an asset in assets.

01:01:45.580 They know what this phrase means.

01:01:47.300 They're people in the FBI.

01:01:48.780 And when you look at the kind of scope of this, these are the same people that are talking

01:01:54.100 endlessly, breathlessly about misinformation and disinformation.

01:01:58.880 What does one call this at the end of the day?

01:02:01.280 If you're saying that the president of the United States is in the control or the pay of

01:02:06.580 the Kremlin, this is lunacy.

01:02:08.860 And so the response to this today has been, well, you know, there's a lot of a lot of nothing

01:02:12.540 going on here.

01:02:13.740 Well, I'll tell you what, an indictment is not what I'm interested in.

01:02:17.200 I'm interested in the kind of etymology of this case.

01:02:20.880 And look, I like I'll even acknowledge very honestly in, you know, this Eli Lake wrote a

01:02:25.800 very good piece about this for Commentary Magazine a couple of years ago that was called

01:02:29.300 Guilty But Framed, which is about right.

01:02:31.840 There's some stuff that's really smells.

01:02:33.320 I mean, Paul Manafort stuff I don't think is above board and I don't think it's OK.

01:02:37.620 But when you have that sort of desire to go deep into it and say, we're going to

01:02:42.400 you know, let's let's also point out something that is really, really important here.

01:02:46.640 And it's the tribal affiliations overtaking consistency, because during the Bush years,

01:02:52.160 who was talking about rubber stamp FISA courts?

01:02:55.140 Who was talking about not trusting the intelligence after Iraq, not allowing intelligence agencies

01:03:00.500 to run rampant and just trust?

01:03:01.900 That was people on the left.

01:03:03.680 And now when you see the most interesting part of the Durham report, and I I'm a complete

01:03:07.980 loser.

01:03:08.480 So I spent this morning reading it.

01:03:10.220 I should have done something different.

01:03:12.000 I should have got an exercise, but I'm reading this the Papadopoulos wiretaps in stuff that

01:03:18.000 like, as Durham points out, is kept out of the re-up of the of the FISA warrant in which

01:03:23.700 he's saying over and over to this to the source, this FBI source that, yeah, there's nothing

01:03:28.980 here.

01:03:29.360 I don't know what they're talking about.

01:03:30.700 And it's in no uncertain terms.

01:03:32.240 It's saying like this is kind of crazy that they think, you know, Trump is, you know, in

01:03:36.860 bed with the Kremlin and kind of they're pulling his puppet strings.

01:03:39.100 This is nuts if that was allowed.

01:03:41.320 And again, you know, the problem with the FISA courts is that they approve ninety nine

01:03:44.260 percent of the warrants in front of them.

01:03:46.460 Maybe that would have had some sort of effect.

01:03:48.520 But even knowing that they didn't include it.

01:03:51.520 And that's a problem because the problem is they have investigators shouldn't have a conclusion

01:03:56.120 when they're starting their investigation.

01:03:57.880 And that seemed to be the major takeaway from from this document.

01:04:02.060 They knew they knew that the White House was advised.

01:04:05.540 The FBI knew that Hillary Clinton was planning on pushing this lie that Trump had colluded with

01:04:12.900 the Russians in the context of his campaign.

01:04:15.260 They knew they didn't they didn't care.

01:04:16.980 And the report also reveals that the Russians knew the Russians knew that she was planning on

01:04:21.740 saying this years before and took advantage of it.

01:04:24.820 They don't care.

01:04:25.460 They don't care what truth is.

01:04:26.340 They just want to sow chaos over here in the United States.

01:04:28.180 That's been their plan for years now.

01:04:30.020 So they all knew that she was she was going to push this lie.

01:04:32.640 Then she did push this lie.

01:04:34.480 Then the FBI ran with this lie.

01:04:36.880 Then they get the Steele dossier through this guy, Danchenko and so on, who they were paying

01:04:40.800 already as a confidential informant.

01:04:42.560 And then when everything falls apart, they know it's lies.

01:04:45.880 They pay him, according to according to the Durham.

01:04:49.120 I think it's another three hundred thousand dollars so he can remain a confidential human

01:04:55.240 source.

01:04:55.620 Now, why would they do that after they've discredited him, after they know that he's been feeding

01:04:59.480 them lies so that he can't be subpoenaed by Congress so that he can't go out there and

01:05:03.720 out what they've been doing?

01:05:05.680 All the nonsense he's been pushing that they've been willingly accepting the spoon feed of it

01:05:11.500 would make them look bad.

01:05:12.500 I mean, I had a big debate with with Dan Abrams, my my pal, both here on Sirius XM and he's

01:05:18.640 on News Nation about he doesn't like it when people rip on the FBI because he thinks there's

01:05:22.420 a lot of honorable guys in there who would prosecute leftists and conservatives and so

01:05:26.420 on that that speaks to the rank and file that the leadership of the FBI has been corrupt

01:05:31.060 and there's been almost no accountability that we're like, why?

01:05:34.720 Why is Andrew McCabe a darling of the left?

01:05:37.060 What about Peter Strzok?

01:05:38.500 Why?

01:05:39.220 They don't care.

01:05:40.120 These same leftists who want to lecture us on everything, like you point out, disinformation

01:05:43.880 and so on, are employing and celebrating and giving tenure university positions to these

01:05:48.820 people to this day.

01:05:51.300 I'm I'm always struck by how people who otherwise can cite, you know, by heart a line from a movie

01:05:59.260 about Joseph McCarthy will then in the next breath accuse someone without any good evidence

01:06:08.220 at all of being a puppet of the government.

01:06:12.800 It's like, did you see any dissonance going on here?

01:06:15.400 And this is I mean, keep in mind, Hillary Clinton did this not just with Donald Trump,

01:06:19.620 which is the most consequential one, to be sure.

01:06:21.940 But to Tulsi Gabbard, yeah, right to to not just Tulsi Gabbard, either also to Jill Stein.

01:06:29.680 She said that Jill Stein running for the Green Party in 2016 was likely a Russian asset.

01:06:34.420 That's her language for this.

01:06:36.380 John McCain, the late John McCain, said something very similar about Rand Paul.

01:06:40.480 These are disreputable, dishonorable ways of going through life when someone is frustrating

01:06:46.780 you because they're your political impediment.

01:06:49.000 They're not doing the thing that you want them to do or you just hate them.

01:06:52.320 It's fine.

01:06:52.800 People hate each other.

01:06:53.600 It happens.

01:06:54.820 You don't call them an asset of a foreign adversary.

01:06:58.220 This should be basic.

01:06:59.400 It should be kind of a consistent thing that we have an instinctual revulsion at, not just

01:07:05.180 as citizens, but as journalists or not just as journalists, but as citizens.

01:07:08.440 And yet people went whole hog for it.

01:07:11.580 And there's only a few people I can think of in the media who, when faced with new information

01:07:17.960 as it has come out over the years, has said, oh, gosh, that's a problem.

01:07:21.580 Michael Disakoff, I think Moynihan has pointed out in previous iterations, was one of them

01:07:25.800 who did that and deserves some credit for that.

01:07:28.340 That's the social searching that we should be seeing right now.

01:07:31.520 And we're not because people are just not consistent.

01:07:33.600 Just to add one thing to that.

01:07:36.200 You know, it's the seriousness of the charge is what we should focus on, because I don't

01:07:42.380 like Tulsi Gabbard's ideas about Russia and about Russian foreign policy.

01:07:46.760 I do not like Rand Paul's either.

01:07:48.480 And I do not like Jill Stein's and, you know, who's at RT Galas.

01:07:52.340 To say they are assets, to say they are working for a foreign government is to accuse somebody

01:07:57.820 of what?

01:07:58.780 Of treason.

01:07:59.460 Treason.

01:07:59.720 What is the crime?

01:08:01.740 What is the highest punishment for treason?

01:08:03.500 There were two people, married couple in the 1950s, who were accused of being treasonous

01:08:08.440 towards the Soviets, with the Soviets in collusion.

01:08:10.700 And they were executed, Julius and Ethel Rosenberg.

01:08:14.360 And, you know, they were guilty, too.

01:08:16.220 But to go around saying that these are people that I think they have crappy foreign policy.

01:08:21.260 But you know what?

01:08:21.880 I'm not going to take shortcuts.

01:08:23.400 I'm not going to say, well, you know what?

01:08:24.260 I think they really are, because that's cable news stuff.

01:08:27.140 I mean, if you go back and, you know, look at Rachel Maddow's record, no one seems to

01:08:32.540 be doing this because the woman is making $30 million a year or something to that tune.

01:08:37.440 And we're doing one show a week.

01:08:39.180 Yes.

01:08:39.420 And she had major ratings to the entire Trump administration by spinning these yarns about

01:08:44.940 a treasonous government.

01:08:46.600 Good Lord.

01:08:47.200 If the government in power is in service of the evil scumbags in the Kremlin, you would

01:08:52.600 have the right to, you know, overthrow it, for Christ's sake.

01:08:56.620 I mean, it's unbelievable that people say anything without consequences.

01:09:00.040 Think about what Rachel Maddow probably lives in, you know, the penthouse that she's probably

01:09:02.900 got, the car she probably drives, the country estate she probably has.

01:09:06.680 She bought that thanks to these lies that she told, dividing the country night after night

01:09:12.780 after night with impunity.

01:09:14.080 I mean, I hope she looks around and she sees her beautiful couch and she thinks lies paid

01:09:17.780 for that.

01:09:18.500 That's what that's what happened.

01:09:19.840 And she, unlike these other journalists who point out, is the cop's been good, hasn't

01:09:24.600 had any accountability for it whatsoever.

01:09:26.780 She got raises for it.

01:09:28.200 She got praised for it.

01:09:29.840 I mean, not for nothing, but my husband, Doug, you know, he's got this other podcast where

01:09:33.560 he interviews authors.

01:09:34.360 He's an author and it's called dedicated with Doug Brown.

01:09:36.860 It's really good.

01:09:37.680 And he had on Douglas Murray.

01:09:38.860 It actually released today.

01:09:40.280 Douglas Murray, who's such a great pundit.

01:09:41.920 And he was talking to Douglas Murray about people like Rachel Maddow and how they just spew

01:09:47.300 lies and they don't debate anybody.

01:09:49.840 Right.

01:09:50.020 Like, wouldn't it be great to see somebody get on there and grill her and say, like,

01:09:54.560 how dare you, madam?

01:09:56.200 Have you no shame?

01:09:57.640 Speaking of quoting, right.

01:10:00.000 It doesn't happen.

01:10:01.020 By the way, we have the clip.

01:10:02.080 Just, you know, shameless plug for Doug's podcast.

01:10:04.120 It's kind of cute here.

01:10:05.040 Watch this.

01:10:05.420 Is there anyone out there that you would like to debate that you think could maybe do it

01:10:11.620 in a constructive way?

01:10:13.240 Unfortunately, not at the moment.

01:10:15.100 There are ones who I'd like to debate who wouldn't be able to do it.

01:10:19.400 I'd love to debate Nicole Hannah-Jones of the 1619 Project or Robin DiAngelo, the race

01:10:26.120 huckster, author of White Fragility and other unreadable terms.

01:10:30.380 I'd love to debate Dibram X. Kendi, but all three people I've just mentioned are a new

01:10:35.480 form of public figure in America, which is the public figure who throws out and send you

01:10:41.040 ideas and will not defend them in public.

01:10:43.240 In fact, says, I will not debate these ideas because all opponents are de facto racist.

01:10:49.580 What about like, I don't know.

01:10:50.480 I mean, you and Rachel Maddow probably have a different worldview.

01:10:53.460 She's smart.

01:10:54.180 Well, it doesn't necessarily mean you're smart.

01:10:55.820 I've met plenty of dim people from these places, but I think she's an act.

01:11:03.560 I don't think she's a real ideas person.

01:11:06.980 It's just an act.

01:11:08.420 She has a shtick where she sits in front of the monitor and reads out and cries sometimes

01:11:17.780 when it's good for ratings.

01:11:19.380 And I don't think it's a real ideas person by any means.

01:11:22.840 It sounds so much better with a British accent.

01:11:26.360 Yeah.

01:11:26.700 It's like ASMR, isn't it?

01:11:28.440 I'm like so soothing when Douglas is angry.

01:11:33.340 My daughter does that all the time.

01:11:34.780 Yeah.

01:11:34.960 He's like opening packages.

01:11:36.480 But no, I mean, he's right about all of these things.

01:11:39.680 And, you know, if people, it's funny when you say like, we cannot have people like, you

01:11:44.860 know, Alex Jones and whatever, because people are silly and stupid and we don't trust them

01:11:48.300 and they'll believe these things.

01:11:49.360 So let's just have somebody uninterrupted on cable for five, six years talking about trumping

01:11:55.100 a Russian asset on a cable channel that's getting very good ratings for cable and unopposed

01:12:00.100 and have them sort of, it's the idea that people are going to soak this stuff up and they do.

01:12:06.220 And he's absolutely right about the people he mentioned before who explicitly say, we have

01:12:10.720 invited Nicole Hannah-Jones many times onto the podcast.

01:12:13.660 It was a long time ago before she said she won't talk to anyone.

01:12:17.240 If you can find a critical debate, she'll sneer at people on Twitter, but you will not

01:12:22.280 find on YouTube her being challenged by an actual historian.

01:12:26.500 She's not a historian, but she has made very large claims for herself and for the history

01:12:30.900 of the United States that is, you know, revisionism is a perfectly fine thing.

01:12:35.400 We can revise history.

01:12:36.460 It's very important to do so.

01:12:37.860 But it's also very important to be able to publicly defend those ideas.

01:12:41.920 And as Douglas says to your husband, a very, very smart way of saying it is that, is that

01:12:46.560 this is something that used to be standard, but those were amongst historians.

01:12:51.720 This is, we have media people now redrawing the past of America and saying, no, no, no,

01:12:56.080 no, no, no.

01:12:56.640 It's not good for me to, uh, to, to go out there and defend these things.

01:13:00.580 It's just good to get the echo chamber and people want to get that, you know, validation.

01:13:05.080 They don't want challenge.

01:13:06.580 I have a quick question I have to ask you guys.

01:13:08.220 Can I ask you a quick question?

01:13:09.740 Um, I, forgive me for this question, but does this, does this officially put an end to any

01:13:18.560 possibility of Hillary Clinton becoming the nominee?

01:13:22.660 I'm just saying, nobody wants Biden.

01:13:24.740 Nobody wants Kamala.

01:13:25.900 I've heard the name mentioned over.

01:13:28.320 It's dead.

01:13:28.900 It's dead.

01:13:29.380 The horse is dead.

01:13:30.040 That's been dead.

01:13:30.860 It's dead.

01:13:31.240 Okay.

01:13:32.000 The horse is dead.

01:13:32.820 I want to agree.

01:13:33.540 I want to agree, but I don't make, uh, predictions like that anymore.

01:13:37.020 Ever since I was very, very wrong about Donald Trump securing the nomination for the Republican

01:13:41.340 party.

01:13:41.880 So I don't know.

01:13:43.560 Yeah.

01:13:44.100 I was wrong about the Russia stuff.

01:13:45.700 I was, I was like, oh, well, the FBI has got to have something.

01:13:48.820 And I said that many times in the podcast and I walked that back.

01:13:52.220 That's the problem.

01:13:52.900 I think most Americans were very trusting of an institution like the DOJ, like, like the

01:13:56.900 FBI, you know, and even I had real faith in Jim Comey.

01:14:00.720 I thought he was a man of honor.

01:14:01.820 I see him so differently now.

01:14:04.400 Thank God for alternative sources of media, for those journalists who did question, who

01:14:08.300 didn't accept.

01:14:09.480 I was on the sidelines for a lot of this reporting because it was in between my stints in television.

01:14:13.640 But, um, I thank God for people who push back people like Glenn Greenwald, people like

01:14:17.560 Tucker, you know, who just didn't accept these narratives who kept pressing and not, and didn't

01:14:22.720 allow Rachel Maddow to have the floor, um, you know, alone, right.

01:14:27.420 But there was another narrative out there and it made people hate them just for fun, just

01:14:31.300 for kicks.

01:14:32.040 Uh, here's just a throwback, just real quick to Rachel Maddow during the Trump era and

01:14:36.520 what she sounded like then, Miss $30 million a year lady.

01:14:38.920 Russia.

01:14:40.920 Russia.

01:14:41.920 Vladimir Putin.

01:14:42.920 Russia.

01:14:43.920 Russia.

01:14:44.920 Russia.

01:14:45.920 Putin.

01:14:46.920 Russia.

01:14:47.920 Russia.

01:14:48.920 Russia.

01:14:49.920 Moscow.

01:14:50.920 Russian, Russian pro-russian Russian, Russia, Russian Russian, Russian, Russian, the Russians

01:14:55.100 Russian Russian Russian Russian Russia, Russian, Russia

01:15:01.600 Russian Russian Russian Russian, Russia, Putin, Russian Russian, Russia, Russian, Russia, Russia, Russia

01:15:04.700 Against us, Russians, Russians, Russia against the U.S.

01:15:07.460 Russia Russian Russian Russian government scheme

01:15:10.960 Vladimir Putin Russia Vladimir Putin Russia, Russia, Russia

01:15:14.260 Russia Moscow Russia Russia Russia Russia Russia Russia

01:15:17.240 Russia Russia The Russians

01:15:19.020 Titans Thank you, 30 million bucks a year

01:15:20.920 we think that's from matt taibbi an old one this this reminds me of a feeling that i've had and

01:15:26.480 thankfully i've suppressed it for a while um but i i think i can speak for moynihan about this too

01:15:32.520 i've hated russia my whole life yeah it's been pretty good consistent my dad worked in aerospace

01:15:37.260 like we're we're going after the ruskies since i was old enough to crawl um and i mean we when

01:15:43.060 camille and i had the best uh show along with kennedy on the history of cable news sorry

01:15:47.080 megan uh the independents didn't quite do as big as it was one roger is one failure matt was he

01:15:53.380 didn't see that genius it's true here's court is a dud in the newspaper uh oh so sad

01:15:59.200 he didn't say anything bad about me they were very kind of me we had he did not uh it's so clean

01:16:05.960 in our ticket but he uh we had our uh like a countdown like the biggest enemies of freedom

01:16:12.120 or something like that in 2014 we did this and who was the number one global enemy of freedom on

01:16:17.480 our list vladimir putin was so you go and i you know just hating russia uh opposing all of his uh

01:16:24.160 imperialist wars and all of this stuff um and to go from there and then suddenly see people who um

01:16:31.240 have not been uh shoulder to shoulder on that issue over the years do that clip for the better part of

01:16:38.740 four years was a was an out-of-body experience um and and it's always a reminder to even yourself to

01:16:45.460 remember to tether your stuff to reality um and uh you know you can it's totally not just uh possible

01:16:53.140 but preferable to keep your hatred of uh hateful uh actions and figures without impugning your

01:16:59.860 fellow citizens um just don't uh these are americans we're talking about yeah we should be we should have

01:17:05.500 backs on our side before we make these grave accusations don't don't we that we see that um

01:17:09.900 in the climate we're in now i'm very surprised that we allow hatred against a nation and people

01:17:15.640 now do the exact same thing and we can use ai to replace that with mexico and mexicans and see

01:17:22.220 see how long that rachel maddow show would stay on the earth like mexicans mexicans mexicans like

01:17:26.620 these mexicans are everywhere the mexicans are in the government it's like yeah i don't think you get

01:17:29.740 away with that it's fine it's all right because it's very worthy you know it's fine you might win a

01:17:34.100 gop nomination but it'd be hard for you can i can i can i reach go ahead can i approach one

01:17:38.320 disagreement with uh with doug uh murray i think douglas excuse me i'm sorry i'm sorry douglas he gets

01:17:44.380 mad i i i know i am sorry but i'm not i don't think she's acting i i don't i think she's sincere

01:17:52.560 um i think that a lot of people are stampeding towards certainty uh with respect to conclusions

01:17:59.600 that conveniently fit particular perspectives that they have and you just see too much of it i think

01:18:05.620 there's kind of a sincere earnestness to it um and and even it might even be the case that people

01:18:11.720 are allowing themselves to be convinced that when it seems like they're wrong there's probably some

01:18:17.040 sort of conspiracy there i think people earnestly cannot see it i think much of the media establishment

01:18:21.880 can't see the various ways in which they've kind of been deluded um and they've engaged in just these

01:18:28.820 kind of miscarriages these abortions journalistic abortions over and over again which quite frankly

01:18:34.760 is far far worse and far more pessimistic perspective on things than to believe that

01:18:40.600 everyone is engaged in some sort of like open dishonesty i i think that nicole hannah jones for

01:18:46.800 example earnestly believes her point of view and doesn't debate people because she believes that

01:18:52.520 anyone who disagrees is some sort of monster um and unless i have some evidence to the contrary i'm

01:18:58.400 probably going to maintain that belief um and it's it's unfortunate that that's where we are right

01:19:03.820 now and i i don't know how to pull out of that except to continue to try to have earnest conversations

01:19:08.920 and to continue to try to model what it looks like to not get out over your skis um and to not engage in

01:19:15.060 that kind of self-delusion he might have meant douglas murray because the longer clip has my doug

01:19:20.840 saying you know she's smart i think she she's a road scholar she went to oxford and douglas murray

01:19:27.020 now he's being too generous he says well that's my that's my doug being a nice guy yeah and uh doug

01:19:32.680 murray says something like i knew a lot of dim people from the universities she's rather dim too

01:19:38.800 like he might have meant she's acting smart she's actually not really a smart person i have to

01:19:44.120 listen to the whole podcast dedicated with doug brun if you want to hear it so let's talk to doug

01:19:49.020 and you'll find out what his favorite drink is too oh and you know i teased this so let me give you

01:19:54.940 one more clip i'm gonna give you one more clip of douglas on doug uh on doug's show and this is the

01:20:00.380 question what irritates douglas murray when he goes into a restaurant here it is worst distinctly

01:20:10.060 american thing oh the phrase are you still working on that

01:20:14.820 i hate that so much oh you mean this in the context of a restaurant as opposed to a book or

01:20:19.780 something no no it's a restaurant and i want that is amazing how much more workmanlike and unpleasant

01:20:25.520 do you want to make this scene i guess i'll just have to get back to that salmon again and see if

01:20:30.320 i can make another assault on it

01:20:32.480 the one and only

01:20:37.680 oh my god that is dougus murray's amazing

01:20:39.840 unbelievable that's so funny he's absolutely right by the way he's

01:20:43.880 why should my salmon be work all right stand by fifth column more coming up

01:20:48.080 can i just tell you about a little cooking fail that happened to me last night i'm thinking about

01:20:55.220 dougus murray and salmon i can't stand seafood i've never been able to eat it i think i had a fish

01:20:59.900 trauma as a child at my grandparents boatyard on the hudson okay it was the 70s ge was dumping

01:21:05.780 chemicals in there like it could have been one of a number of things so i don't eat seafood but

01:21:11.240 my doctor recently i go to my heart doctor every year because my dad died young of a heart attack

01:21:15.120 and he's like you need to eat more fish and you need to eat less red meat and don't you can't have

01:21:20.600 like a big bowl of carbs because believe it or not that can drive up cholesterol even though

01:21:25.300 there's no cholesterol in the bowl of spaghetti my cholesterol is fine but you know we're staying

01:21:29.500 proactive i'm like oh man i eat a fair amount of red meat and chicken for that matter so i'm like

01:21:35.320 okay i want i want to do more you know vegetarian options and i want my kids to eat like that but

01:21:41.180 my boys say they don't like cheese they they eat tons of pizza but they claim they don't like

01:21:46.220 cheese i'm stuck with this so going meatless is very challenging because every recipe has cheese

01:21:51.180 in it which now i can't make because we're all pretending that my boys don't like cheese

01:21:54.100 so i'm like i'm gonna google meatless monday that's a thing i remember that from my mbc days

01:21:58.900 where they were making me do cooking segments i'm gonna do meatless monday i find a recipe everything

01:22:02.920 has cheese okay no get it finally a teriyaki vegetable dish with tempeh t-e-m-p-e-h i've never had it

01:22:13.400 before they said it's like tofu only supposedly better i'm like oh okay because tofu sucks so maybe i'll

01:22:19.740 try tempeh so i drive to the whole foods and i'm like where else am i gonna get tempeh i'm not gonna

01:22:25.060 the acme for that so i go to the whole foods i get the tempeh the recipe calls for three heads of

01:22:31.440 broccoli i'm like i'm not doing all that nonsense that's a lot of work so i get the frozen florets

01:22:36.440 instead this as it would turn out is a mistake one of many i get the peppers had to get three

01:22:43.740 different peppers in different different colors i thought i was getting snap peas but i think i got

01:22:47.760 something else that they were thicker and fatter and you had to cut off the ends i don't know what

01:22:50.800 i got and i bring it all back home then they wanted me to make teriyaki i'm like i'm not doing

01:22:56.060 that should i just bought one a teriyaki off the shelf i'm in whole foods how bad could it be

01:22:59.880 so i get it all home it was 168 dollars now i bought other things it wasn't just the debt but it

01:23:05.640 was an expensive trip get back home i start cutting up the veggies and wash all the veggies everything

01:23:12.100 takes so long i i'm not happy i'm not a happy chef i don't like the way i feel when i'm in the

01:23:16.860 kitchen inadequate i can't eyeball anything try to follow the directions to a tee first you have

01:23:22.440 to cook the tempe so i got the tempe in there and some oil in like a wok i mean within they say six

01:23:28.160 to eight minutes i within three it burned everything burned the olive oil i whatever the oil was in

01:23:34.680 there burned i put it on what they said but it's still burned so now i'm pushing around the doctor

01:23:40.060 also said burn is bad don't eat burn burn causes bad things i'm like crackpot doctor you have

01:23:45.660 causing death by the minute as i cook the tempe my healthy meal in the burn like dump it out of them

01:23:53.220 and get it into a plate no i didn't throw it away but then i scrub with the brillo scrub scrub scrub

01:23:57.520 get the burn off the wok because it's my only pan and i go back i start putting all the vegetables in

01:24:03.740 there and it's not looking right i'm not gonna lie just look like wrong i put the broccoli florets in

01:24:09.440 all that water comes off they're the soggiest most disgusting broccoli florets ever i know this is not

01:24:15.100 how it's supposed to be it meandered over to the other vegetables everything's now soggy by the way

01:24:19.680 peeling ginger is a massive pain in the ass you got i mean it's an exercise in how to keep your

01:24:24.200 fingers on your attached to your hand but trying to get the skin off then trying to

01:24:27.740 slice the tiny tiny ginger the scallions my hands still smell i don't enjoy doing this shit

01:24:34.880 so i tried everything was waterlogged i could tell my my kids come in they're like what's for dinner

01:24:40.200 you know with the bright faces i'm like something healthy yes yeah like try try the tempe and

01:24:46.760 everybody's their noses are turned up well one fell on the floor even thunder wouldn't eat the tempe

01:24:53.860 my good dog strudwick was outside he would have eaten anything i thought that was your youngest

01:24:57.700 thunder thunder kelly thunder rejected the tempe it's a great name the kids didn't want it at all

01:25:05.220 i tried it it was the most disgusting thing i've ever put my i mean it was i couldn't so i threw it

01:25:09.920 away all we had was a big walk full of soggy waterlogged vegetables the teriyaki was a disaster

01:25:15.900 because it didn't say how much to put on i had to eyeball which as i've already explained to you i

01:25:19.620 don't know how to do so i waterlogged it even more it was a salty disgusting

01:25:23.700 mess doug said do you want a glass of wine i said no i'm trying to lay off the wine and the doctor

01:25:28.220 also said not to have too much wine flash forward i look at dr phil

01:25:32.900 please order some pizzas yes we got a cheese pizza and a sausage pizza and where's my wine indeed i

01:25:43.440 drank it were you on the phone with the doctor throughout this entire drama is he telling you

01:25:49.600 that like no no you can't be on the floor you can't burn it and i would rather die young you

01:25:54.200 can't do that i mean i'd rather die young than live like this i can't do it you are a 21 year old

01:25:59.980 dude yeah you're like a college boy you don't have any idea what you're doing in the kitchen

01:26:04.900 instead of eyeballing it just get the measuring do you have a measuring cup magazine no well it didn't

01:26:10.020 say it said like make the teriyaki and this amount and then pour it i'm like well i didn't do that

01:26:14.240 i don't like just figure it out i honestly like this is these are the days that i look at abby and

01:26:22.260 i'm like should i just try to hire somebody like i can afford somebody to come help me why don't i

01:26:27.720 just get somebody it feels like too big an indulgence you know what i mean it feels like being irish

01:26:34.240 you're creating jobs you're creating jobs it's good for america it's good for your family and it

01:26:39.320 will save you a great deal of stress for god's sake let doug cook my god he doesn't cook either

01:26:45.920 i know he needs a break at least let douglas murray cook let anyone cook

01:26:49.420 it's funny there's a running joke in my family because one thing i know how to make is lasagna

01:26:54.820 of course i have to make it cheeseless one for the boys that's cheeseless because they don't like

01:26:59.100 cheese even though they ate cheese pizza like it was going out of style and then one that has cheese

01:27:03.160 so i make it but it's a massive hassle lasagna is a big hassle too the bechamel sauce that's another 20

01:27:08.680 minutes you didn't have cooking the meat on the stove takes all day it's got three different

01:27:13.360 kinds of meat in it the lasagna noodles first time i made it i didn't realize you got to cook those

01:27:18.200 unless you buy a special kind and then you get to do everything and look at you the lasagna is not

01:27:23.080 done you got to put the noodles in there they're raw anyway by the time i serve the lasagna now it's

01:27:27.960 gotten to the point where the whole family's like we're having lasagna with like the blinking eyes

01:27:33.100 of a dog that knows it's getting hit with the newspaper because they know i'm going to be in a

01:27:36.420 terrible mood by the time are all the kids like massively underweight and like look they're

01:27:43.320 like skin is a bit jaundiced and they're like mommy can i please have something with that cheese

01:27:47.860 that's delicious i'm not gonna lie they they are a little skinny maybe this is why strudwick is

01:27:56.040 eating everything off my counters because he's too skinny okay all right sorry back to the news

01:28:01.060 stove like uh like it's uh it's a tribesman i do get triggered apollo capsule

01:28:09.120 you would think at 52 i would have better skills than this but i do not um okay let's talk about

01:28:16.940 more important things like miller light um people are joking that miller light saw the controversy with

01:28:21.340 bud light and said hold my beer they've decided that their marketing campaign campaign much like the

01:28:27.540 bud light one was outdated and offensive you know bud light thought it was too fratty according to that

01:28:33.920 one woman and miller light too thinks that they've been too bro-tastic in their effort to get men to

01:28:40.360 want to use or drink their beer so they i'll just give you a look back at a classic miller light

01:28:46.820 ad and the way they used to try to market the brand this is from 2003

01:28:51.100 oh yeah that's great

01:28:57.880 the end the men are looked at like you guys are gross but i am also very very thirsty right now so

01:29:27.860 just need a beer and it's one o'clock so there you go

01:29:33.900 so now miller light's sad and it's sorry that it was a bunch of sexist pigs according to it

01:29:41.120 and they put out this librarian lady to lecture us on how they're going to change it all look at this

01:29:47.480 clip centuries later how did the industry pay homage to the founding mothers of beer they put us in

01:29:54.560 bikinis wow don't take it away

01:29:59.600 look at this wild it's time beer made it up to women so today miller light is on a mission to

01:30:06.440 clean up not just their shit but the whole beer industry's shit miller light has been scouring

01:30:11.660 the internet for all this and buying it back so that they can turn it into good for women

01:30:16.060 brewers literally good but there's definitely more out there in your attic in the garage in your

01:30:22.060 basement send any shit you got into miller light and they'll turn that into good shit too

01:30:26.200 so here's to women because without us there would be no beer

01:30:33.600 oh my god that's like nicole hannah jones history without women

01:30:39.320 i want i'm stuck on the practicalities of it because if you keep playing the ad they're like

01:30:45.100 no seriously send us your your shit or bad shit we'll turn it into good shit so you scoured the

01:30:49.920 internet for shit and you somehow turned it into fertile you so you scoured a beer ad on the

01:30:56.400 internet and it became fertilizer yeah yes or even that's what they're saying you know if i'm

01:31:01.020 reaching over to my grandpa's playboy collection which is thankfully within arm's reach over here

01:31:05.540 um they want me to pull out the not the carlton ads which are actually really gruesome

01:31:10.480 but the beer ads and like mail them to them and then they're going to put it through a shredder

01:31:15.220 yes and then that shredder is going to produce fertilizer for i guess barley and hops which

01:31:22.160 they're going to send to female brewers so i want to do the follow-up for you and see how many like

01:31:30.940 barrels full of shredded you know the destructed images you know we're uh we're sort of book shredding

01:31:37.920 over here now um are going to be i didn't know they were serious about that are they actually

01:31:41.660 serious about that at the end of the ad they pretend to be serious about this that's never

01:31:47.100 going to happen of course but um they pretend to be serious i can tell you guys were offended by the

01:31:52.080 original ad that was obvious and that you're happy for this moment of female empowerment

01:31:55.560 right this is going to make you want to buy miller light no yeah i mean i i look at that and i'm like

01:32:02.840 i just i think i really want to support women uh by drinking uh the shittiest beer i can find

01:32:08.900 and being yelled at for ads that i like because i thought the women were mildly attractive i mean

01:32:14.920 this is a great way of selling things we used to like the the fact that women were in the ads in the

01:32:18.860 first place was like yeah i mean titillate them maybe they'll be interested and now they believe

01:32:22.640 that to interest us they have to yell at us and lecture us about how bad america has been

01:32:28.540 and send us this in the stalinist spasm send us the stuff from the past and we will destroy the

01:32:34.400 past this is like the khmer rouge of beer get just destroy the past for this glorious future it's like

01:32:40.160 you're a beer company you want to apologize fine but you don't have to go in the other direction

01:32:44.600 you don't have to go all scoldy and just don't do those ads anymore correct and all the women

01:32:49.420 brewers like they found like that hearty women who are brewing this is the these are the new women

01:32:53.900 we're getting rid of the old women f the women who wear bikinis what about these women now it says

01:32:59.380 at the beginning that only we don't have only only have beer because women decided to brew this uh in

01:33:05.660 the past and they figured it out without without women we wouldn't have beer no one would have

01:33:09.560 figured it out but it's just it wasn't these women in the past it just never would have happened we

01:33:13.480 have ai but we probably wouldn't have beer it's a really bizarre thing that is also you have to

01:33:19.020 like create a fake historical narrative to get people to pay attention like oh interesting

01:33:23.120 i didn't but it's once again it's like who was offended who actually was offended by the miller

01:33:27.540 light you know like like the woman at bud light saying we were too fratty says who who's your

01:33:32.380 audience do they really have a bunch of like hearty women like i wish they'd get rid of those bikini

01:33:38.880 clad ladies and then i'd finally drink the miller light i don't think so they work in the adage

01:33:43.180 is also the insinuation is also that women don't enjoy those ads and i mean who who are the terry

01:33:49.080 cruz old spice ads for like are they for me when he's shirtless and and looking absolutely great

01:33:54.540 and there's this tell us camille they are i'm stinking it's it's only a male product they're

01:34:00.340 selling it to me so we should do something about that too terry cruz keep your damn shirt on well

01:34:04.560 camille i said this to you the other day on the test this is the thing is that now we want to have

01:34:10.160 like big shapely women on the cover of magazines let's have that men that's right

01:34:15.220 and shapely on the cover of men yeah i want to see that's right is that not happening

01:34:18.360 yeah we did not get to the sports illustrated cover models with the trans person and the

01:34:33.000 and the 81 year old martha stewart and guess what though the audience can take heart because that

01:34:37.400 leads me that leaves me some good fodder for my guest tomorrow guys sorry but

01:34:41.320 roseanne will have first crack at that oh the mk show the warm-up act right how good is that gonna

01:34:49.260 be i can't wait you were also excellent though don't feel bad it went very well today thank you

01:34:56.240 thank i'm glad it went well thank you as always sending you case of miller light in the mail check

01:35:02.860 your mail thanks everyone on the fifth column don't forget to check them out at we the fifth

01:35:07.220 dot substack dot com and don't forget roseanne is here tomorrow for the full show and then later

01:35:12.300 this week we're going to be joined by dan bongino for the first time this will be very interesting

01:35:16.520 this is the first time i will have had the opportunity to talk to him in the first interview

01:35:19.980 he has given since fox booted him we'll get to the bottom of what's going on over there

01:35:24.500 thanks for listening to the megan kelly show no bs no agenda and no fear

01:35:37.220 received some more questions

01:35:43.900 going on by the last show

01:35:48.560 to be a famous boy

01:35:53.920 if you really saw your eyes you may be available

01:35:56.620 you may be able to talk to myself

01:35:59.320 thank you

01:36:02.400 thanks for listening

The Megyn Kelly Show - May 16, 2023

CNN's Post-Trump Town Hall Meltdown, and No Media Accountability Post-Durham, with the Fifth Column Hosts ｜ Ep. 551

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