00:05:22.780Anything you'd like to say to the audience before we go?
00:05:24.860Well, not necessarily to the audience, but to the folks at CBS.
00:05:27.840In the words of the great Ed Murrow, good night and good luck, mother...0.99
00:05:32.840yeah they're angry glenn motherfuckers because they had the nerve to cancel his0.98
00:05:39.840failing show what do you make of it they're hard to watch you know um i i grew up with johnny carson0.98
00:05:47.240uh and i never really understood you know when you're a teenager or whatever the appeal johnny
00:05:51.960carson but i actually find myself going back and watching johnny carson clips because it's just
00:05:56.060kind of a representative of that era the way he did interviews the kind of humor you know he was
00:06:02.080actually kind of a a subtle humorist so maybe as a kid you don't really understand why he's funny
00:06:06.940he's older he appeals to your parents but the reason was was because it was actual genuine
00:06:12.560humor and he never took himself too seriously like he thought of himself as a comedian which
00:06:16.760is an important role in society which is to make people laugh to sometimes there's kind of a
00:06:21.740politicized aspect to it that you poke at taboos and you delve into sensitive subjects in a way
00:06:28.560That's unexpected. That's a big part of humor. But these guys have all like so many of our institutions, like so many in the age of Trump have convinced themselves that they have some transcendent role.
00:06:39.860No, they're not just comedians that, you know, as David Letterman said, thank you for what you've done for our country.
00:06:45.000He doesn't just mean holding hands of people at night.
00:06:47.980He means the political war that you've waged.
00:06:50.700And they see themselves as martyrs, as people who are battling evil, by which they mean Donald Trump.
00:06:57.920And they've completely turned themselves into basically like a celebrity guest version of whatever is on MSNBC.
00:07:07.340and they they've broken the whole notion of of late night tv which is the place where people
00:07:11.600used to be able to gather no matter what your religion or race or politics were it was just
00:07:17.240kind of a centralized cultural uh thought that that people really really drank at because there
00:07:24.020was no politics to it so that's the first thing and the other thing is they do you notice like
00:07:28.940they all this whole thing with cbs i have my huge critiques about cbs i do think part of why they
00:07:34.860fired Colbert is because they didn't want like very liberal programming up because they have a
00:07:39.820lot to do with the Trump administration that they need done. But reality is it was a money making
00:07:43.760money losing show. And if you're just looking at it from a business perspective, you would
00:07:47.700you would cut it anyway. But they are trying to now depict themselves as these like hardcore
00:07:52.920rebels and dissidents, radicals who are saying F you to the man. These are people who have made
00:07:59.800extreme fortunes working for large corporations their entire lives and now at the very end
00:08:06.200with their bank accounts all stuffed with billions millions and millions of dollars
00:08:10.160from these corporations they're not going to feign like they're the common man giving the
00:08:13.880middle finger to the corporation it's all such a fraud like a self-important
00:08:17.700just bloviating fraud and it really sickens me it totally and you know the thing that's crazy
00:08:24.540They were losing $40 million a year. I mean, $40 million. What show would be kept on the air because when it was losing $40 million a year, that would be professional malpractice to leave that show on the air.
00:08:39.760But the irony of having Letterman pretend that this wasn't coming, when Letterman was, when he launched his show in 1993, we pulled the numbers, Glenn, he averaged 7.8 million total viewers and 4.4 million in the key 18 to 49 year old demo.
00:08:59.560All right. Four point four million in the demo. By the time he handed it off to Colbert, those numbers were down to two point eight million and five hundred and thirty thousand.
00:09:12.020The late night format collapsed while David Letterman was at the helm and he knew he was handing what was effectively a loser to the next guy.
00:09:23.220So Colbert steps in there with a program that is a shadow of its former self.
00:09:28.340People had just gotten over it, and Letterman wasn't what he'd been, and certainly Colbert wasn't the answer, and he never got things going.
00:09:36.320In the beginning of the Trump administration, he raised the numbers a little.
00:09:39.880He got it up 1 million to 3.8 million, okay, and it was 520,000 in the demo, so he never got the demo up.
00:09:45.520But by the time Trump left office, he was down to 2.6 million total and 226,000 in the demo.
00:09:53.220Only now has he ticked up a little bit from that as he does his little farewell tour and people on the left are feeling nostalgic for it.
00:27:31.620like the numbers are pretty close colbert had 200 staffers glenn 200 staffers exactly and he's not
00:27:38.220producing 200 times better of a product than anybody than anybody i'd rather there's a zillion
00:27:44.400people i would rather watch just sit in front of a camera with a cheap microphone and talk
00:27:48.600than watch stephen colbert and that is what the internet has has permitted is it really has rooted
00:27:53.320out the frauds like the people who are only successful because they had a captive audience
00:27:57.900no one's captive anymore to cbs except still like old people who watch because it's it's their
00:28:03.100viewing habits but other than that young people they're not going to watch cbs out of habit or
00:28:08.500just because they have to they're going to only watch if there's something compelling on and
00:28:12.060there's not it's no it's so crazy i like i did not make as much as stephen colbert is making
00:28:18.760when i was in the prime time at fox but my show made a hundred million dollars in ads a year that
00:28:27.140okay, $100 million in ads a year. And that's not including these subscription fees that Fox would
00:28:35.820get because people liked the lineup. They liked what was in the prime time. They liked up and
00:28:40.020down the dial. But that makes sense. That's why that show worked. And we did it on a shoestring
00:28:46.580budget. I only had 12 main producers, which is small for cable. You have to produce six segments
00:28:51.920a night. I mean, it's a lot. It's a labor-intensive product, and it still is over there. But Fox
00:28:56.540always did it on the lean. This guy's got one hour of like a couple of guests. I don't know,
00:29:04.220maybe three at most. He does a standup monologue. So I guess he needs a couple of writers since
00:29:08.920he's clearly not writing his own stuff anymore. I don't even know how you get to 200 staffers
00:29:13.780and how much was his show making Steve? It was, it took in, it took in 60, but, and lost and lost
00:29:21.94040. Well, like, I don't know that those economics are not sustainable. So it took in 60 and it cost
00:29:30.940a hundred to make, it cost a hundred million dollars to make. And it took in 60, you know,
00:29:35.000like just so people understand the economics. Right. So then there's my show at Fox. I don't
00:29:38.840know what it costs, but it was some fraction of that teeny tiny fraction of that. And we made
00:29:44.680a hundred million. Like that's something that's available to anybody who wants to be in the news
00:29:50.440or entertainment business, and you could easily replace Stephen Colbert with an up-and-coming,
00:29:55.560hungry, you know, excited, young, talented guy who wouldn't require any of the star trappings
00:30:02.640or salary that he demands and probably get at least equal to, if not potentially in a year,
00:30:09.720a bigger number. Like, why don't any of these other comedians acknowledge that? Why do they
00:30:16.180all go along with this? Well, ironically, this is the part of it that, you know, you could go to
00:30:22.320YouTube and find some young comedian who doesn't have a huge name, but has like a big following
00:30:28.300online, which is, you know, if they have a following online, it means their following
00:30:32.540tends to be a lot younger than the average network or cable news viewer, which is what's
00:30:37.620created by advertisers and the like. So they're more valuable. The problem is, is that the reason
00:30:42.220why they don't just take somebody like that and pay them, you know, one 20th of what Stephen
00:30:45.860Colbert is making and give them an hour on CBS news is because they can't control those people.
00:30:50.540They don't trust them enough. They don't have enough of a proven track record that they're good,
00:30:54.700malleable people. And, you know, your stint at NBC was very short lived in part because you
00:31:02.020weren't that malleable. You know, you, they couldn't just mold you and into something that
00:31:08.980they wanted you to be or that the other people there wanted you to be and the fact that that
00:31:12.300you weren't is why you were gone so so soon so that's the irony is stephen colbert has lasted
00:31:18.100there so long because he's never been offensive they were willing to lose money on him because
00:31:24.280he never really did anything you know basically that show is some movie star some actor has a
00:31:29.880new show a new book a new whatever they want to promote so the deal is they go they go on those
00:31:34.420shows they sit down for like eight minutes talk a few minutes about some pre-planned story and
00:31:39.560then the rest of the time promoting the project it's like the easiest thing in the world but
00:31:43.640that's what that show that's what those networks want they don't want edgy comedy or people they
00:31:48.060can't control and that's why they've lost their audience farewell i mean just truly farewell it's
00:31:54.100like i don't know i i feel like i don't know what they're going to replace him with but who cares
00:31:59.360the whole medium has become totally irrelevant it should just lean into what it is which is
00:32:04.880it's it's political hit jobs every night after night i mean it's interesting to me because
00:32:08.480those five late night comedians put on quote just launched a podcast and it's appearing on
00:32:16.800and my podcast feed under the news feed not entertainment news yeah they're actually so
00:32:24.300like they're not that they're not entertainment and they're not news i don't know what they are
00:32:28.900But also, but also, as you noted, and when I tell people this who aren't, you know, conservatives, people get shocked.
00:32:36.860The number one rated late night talk show host in the country is Greg Gutfeld.
00:32:41.760His audience is not huge, but he is the number one rated late night talk show.
00:32:46.220He's number one. Notice he's never included in their little club, even though he has the bigger audience of all five of them, because they're not joining on the basis of comedy.
00:32:55.220They're joining on the basis of politics. And Greg Gutfeld doesn't fit in.
00:32:58.900He fits in as a late night comedy show host.
00:33:00.940That's what he is, but not as the political actors they think they are,
00:33:56.200the ones that americans like as they went to sleep having adam schiff on could you imagine
00:34:00.960johnny carson having someone like the adam schiff equivalent on especially on the night that you
00:34:05.400get you announce your cancellation never that already is showing the attempt to infuse it with
00:34:09.360this like political importance but like a liberal and johnny carson also was in the business of
00:34:16.420making stars like if you got the chance to appear on his show as a comedian you were on your way to
00:34:22.380becoming a star letterman had that in the beginning too none of these guys has that ability they can't
00:34:27.220make stars they don't they don't have enough star power power themselves speaking of star power
00:34:32.160we've been talking this week on this show about the michael jackson story the new movie and the
00:34:39.240allegations against tim glenn and um we actually i talked about the the nature of this movie and
00:34:46.600the controversies around it because it stops before any of the sexual molestation scandal came
00:34:51.120out. And I hadn't yet seen it, but I did go to see it with my family on Wednesday night.
00:34:57.400It was amazing. I have to say, I highly recommend it. It was supremely entertaining. Both actors
00:35:02.840who played the young Michael Jackson and the older Michael Jackson, the older of whom is Jafar
00:35:07.740Jackson, Jermaine Jackson's son. He's Michael Jackson's nephew. Did such a great job. But the
00:35:13.840younger kid did such a great job, too. Gosh, they were very talented. By the way, for those
00:35:18.720wondering, you can take the whole family to it. The only viewer warning is Joe Jackson was an
00:35:23.320abusive bastard, Michael's dad. And there is a scene in the beginning where he beats Michael0.99
00:35:27.960that is very jarring, even to us old news cynical bastards. It was upsetting. The little boy did0.97
00:35:35.400almost too good a job of acting hysterical and hurt. Other than that, you're good. But he's been
00:35:41.040very much in the news. And I'm not going to ask you about the Michael Jackson scandal, but I am
00:35:45.100sort of, it's, it's, it's led to a bunch of discussions about whether we even have celebrity
00:35:49.580like that anymore. Like Michael Jackson transcended everything. Doug and I were talking about this
00:35:55.900this morning. Like he, he transcended race. He himself was neither black nor white really over
00:36:01.480the course of his life. He transcended aging, right? He never sort of grew up. He always remained a
00:36:07.520child in his, you know, what he liked, the people he wanted to hang out with. I understand the
00:36:12.700controversy with that, but I'm just saying, um, he, he, it was just something like he, he was for
00:36:20.760everyone. It wasn't just for women, like the way Taylor Swift is, um, or just for men, you know,
00:36:26.860the way some of these, like, I don't know, maybe hard rocker bands. I don't know, but he was for
00:36:31.180everybody and he was universally known universally beloved. He was just such a huge star. And I
00:36:38.200wonder whether, is it even possible to have that today? Is there anybody who we could use to help
00:36:45.200explain that level of fame and notoriety to our kids? It is something I do think is so interesting.
00:36:53.980Michael Jackson came to Brazil once, and I think maybe more than once, and to this day,
00:36:59.180people in Brazil talk about it. It was like a huge moment in Brazil. He, I think, actually
00:37:04.740He filmed a music video in one of the Rio favelas, and he had extreme global fame.
00:37:11.700And I think it very much relates to what we were just talking about, which is, as you said, Michael Jackson didn't do anything that would alienate a particular group.
00:37:23.520He wasn't trying to plant his flag and say, I'm this, and if you're not this, I'm not for you.
00:37:28.300I remember actually Michael Jordan, who was by far the biggest athlete, certainly the biggest basketball player, but I say the biggest athlete when we were growing up as well, was once asked, like, why don't you comment on politics?
00:37:39.600And he basically said this famous phrase, which is, well, Republicans buy shoes, too, buy tennis sneakers as well.
00:37:45.580I'm not in the field of being a politician.
00:37:47.400If I run for the Senate, maybe I'll take political stands.
00:38:53.640because so many millions of americans were watching that doesn't exist anymore there is
00:38:57.640no common cultural uh kind of gathering point that we have any longer it's all been so segmented and
00:39:03.960segregated and i maybe you can find some benefits in that but i also do think that there are um
00:39:10.080some serious harms to that as well we want to share things in common with one another across
00:39:16.780cross lines but everything is so politicized everything is so segmented yeah exactly exactly
00:39:23.620it was just or actually you know now that you mention it you know i've uh been working on this
00:39:28.240project about issues with with animals like you saw this thing with richland farms and the horrific
00:39:33.280experiments that were being done to beagles and you know i've known the activists working on this
00:39:38.560for a decade i read about it a decade ago because of them and yet all of a sudden like this this
00:39:43.580very apolitical trans ideological movement formed around this issue you had like laura trump and
00:39:52.000laura loomer and like fox news personalities you were doing it lots of republican members of
00:39:57.480congress as well as liberal members of congress and left-wing activists completely aligned and
00:40:02.660assembled around this common cause that we all can relate to which is dogs and the idea of
00:40:08.200industrially abusing dogs and torturing dogs is something that horrifies all of us there's
00:40:13.300and the reason i noticed it is because it so rarely happens whereas it used to happen a lot
00:40:18.420more like with michael jackson michael was michael jackson on the left or the right
00:40:21.500neither neither he didn't have that prison at all no exactly right and he he there's a line in the
00:40:29.720movie um and again it was made by his estate and by people who love michael and with the full
00:40:34.720cooperation of his family i think is executive produced by his brother jermaine his mother is
00:40:39.300still alive and clearly blessed it. And the actor, Jafar, who plays him, who's the grandson of
00:40:46.160Michael's mother, said she approved. This has been blessed by the family. But there's a line
00:40:51.760in there where Michael said he wanted to avoid too much overexposure. He wanted to be like Greta
00:40:58.920Garbo, who really didn't put herself out there that much, that he liked there being a level of
00:41:04.260mystery. And really, Michael Jackson did live up to that. Think of your memories of Michael Jackson.
00:41:09.120And he gave a couple of massive, like, interviews that were massive because he never did them and because he made so much news in them.
00:41:14.940Like, with Martin Bashir, he gave one to Diane Sawyer and one to Oprah.
00:41:19.840I can't think of others off the top of my head.
00:41:21.380But, like, the fact that I can even list the ones he did tells us a lot.
00:41:27.100And he intentionally tried to keep his big performances on stage or on vinyl, you know?
00:41:34.700And it's just the opposite of the way the stars are today, where they're everywhere, they'll go to anything, and they'll overshare.
00:41:44.660You know, like Charlize Theron, I just saw some video of her on a subway being interviewed by somebody, like, giving up all these sex secrets.
00:42:51.440very respected people in their fields who had accomplished great things.
00:42:55.420And then they would just start, you know, getting dragged down into the Twitter mud or commenting on everything.
00:42:59.920And it would be you would look at them and you would say, wow, they're they're actually quite mediocre.
00:43:04.120They you know, it would strip them of the image.
00:43:07.980So many of those people like during covid, a lot of just certainly in the Trump era as well, because mystique and enigma is a really are really attractive traits.
00:43:19.480It kind of draws you to people you want to know more.
00:43:21.580But if they're just shoving in your face everything about their life, they have Instagram pages and they're posting everything that they're doing and thinking and saying it every second.
00:43:38.100You know, like the life is like only they materialize on stage, as you were saying, with Michael Jackson in front of like 300,000 screaming fans or 150,000 people in a stadium.
00:43:47.320But if you start hearing from Michael Jackson every day about his thoughts on like whatever he happened to watch on CNN or whatever, and he just like goes on TikTok or Instagram and, you know, you're going to be like, oh, that's he's zero.
00:43:59.280He's mediocre. And that is it's like this attention addiction in this attention economy.
00:44:05.020I think we all have it a little bit. You have to like fight against it and resist it.
00:44:08.100And yeah, I think I think you're exactly right. This overexposure is is has killed like any of the mystique of celebrities become almost tawdry.
00:44:17.320Mm-hmm. Leonardo DiCaprio, he's good that not, you know, he doesn't give many interviews. It's good. You know, back in our day, they used to not really put themselves out there. Every once in a while, they might do a Barbara Walters sit down for one of her most fascinating people specials.
00:44:34.260those were always great because they would be more profiles of the person where you really
00:44:40.080got to know them on their ranch, like with Clint Eastwood. Maybe she'd ask you if you'd been
00:44:45.200involved in a scandal, a couple of like very blunt questions. So that was always a highlight.
00:44:49.840It was a different way of getting to know them and they all knew the price of admission and it
00:44:52.900worked. But today it's like sitting on the subway talking about your intimate sex preferences is
00:44:58.900just weird and it's too much and it's the opposite of garbo by the way trump once told me that
00:45:04.660that's melania's approach too that she's more like a garbo you know which i think is actually
00:45:10.180i think that is very true like we don't ever i like barely know melania's voice like given her
00:45:15.600stature and her platform we barely hear much from her or about her um and that's clearly part of i
00:45:23.180think you're absolutely right like a deliberate conscious effort not to to kind of be this person
00:45:28.840that you want to know more about right like when someone has a like a kind of wall between you and
00:45:33.320them and hiding things which they should be because you don't need to know everything about
00:45:36.980them it kind of makes them more interesting like you want to know more whereas if she were just
00:45:40.740sounding off every day about everything you'd be like oh just please go away she really i think
00:45:45.000that's a really good point yeah like after the um latest assassination attempt at the hinckley
00:45:51.760hilton in washington you know melania was right next to trump for that one it wasn't like butler
00:45:56.480where she was not even there. She was there and she would have been potentially in the line of1.00
00:46:01.080fire. And Trump held that presser immediately after back at the White House. And she was there
00:46:07.440and he said, do you, somebody asked about Melania and he was like, do you want to come up? And she
00:46:11.960declined. She net like it's, that's why when she came out and did the little bit on Epstein and
00:46:16.520like stop the lies, we're not, we weren't friends. It was so extraordinary. It's like, oh my God,
00:46:20.000she's speaking. She never speaks. She never covets the camera, the microphone. She did her
00:46:25.300little documentary on her life, which was controlled. And that was, that's what she
00:46:28.980was comfortable with. But she rarely feels the need for us to see her or to put her voice or
00:46:35.320her opinions on camera. It's a 180 from the last first lady. And it's delightful because if ever
00:46:41.540there was a woman who the camera loved, it's Melania Trump. She just doesn't feel the need
00:46:47.660for that kind of attention, which is probably good for them because in that, in that marriage,0.98
00:46:51.960there can only be one who needs attention. Imagine wanting to have him compete with Trump0.61
00:46:57.600when it comes to media attention. That would be very fatal to any kind of connection.
00:47:03.520No, exactly. You've got a seed here and back back to you. And that works for both of them.
00:47:09.900OK, wait. Speaking of loving the camera, though, Kamala Harris is back. She she's gotten a little
00:47:15.040taste of it, Glenn, and she she's enjoying it. She's back and she's got a lot of predictions
00:47:19.680or forecasts or pieces of advice, I guess we should say, for how the Democrats
00:47:23.860should combat what they see as the gutting of the Voting Rights Act.
00:47:31.180The reason the Voting Rights Act has, over the past 70 years, been rolled back
00:47:36.020bit by bit to the point where it's really no longer doing anything is because we've grown.
00:47:40.620We've grown as a society. We are no longer meeting blacks at the polling stations with rabid dogs0.99
00:57:42.880But also these ideas, Kamala Harris is an institutionalist. She's worked her way up the political system by being as far from a radical as you can be. She was a prosecutor is how she started. It's always been at the center of the party, but now they feel like they can't have viability. You're going to get depicted as being Chuck Schumer or Hakeem Jeffries, who they also hate if you're too wedded to traditional rules.1.00
00:58:04.740So this idea of expanding the court, statehood for D.C. and Puerto Rico obviously would become two extremely Democratic states.
00:58:13.360This is stuff that I don't believe Kamala Harris believes.
00:58:16.240But if we've seen this before, when you have politicians kind of pandering to voters with ideas that they have, even though the D.C. class doesn't have them, you can push the Overton window far enough that it does become the position of the Democratic Party.
00:58:30.340And I do think it becomes something that's, of course, not going to happen to something that will actually if they get enough political power, which they might.
00:58:38.760Trump is unpopular. The war has made him unpopular. Gas prices, economy, Epstein stuff that has given not the Democratic Party a popularity boost, but the Republicans, a big albatross, certainly in 2026 and maybe into 2028.
00:58:51.860Then it is possible. And I do think that kind of talk warrants attention.
00:58:55.320Yeah, it's scary to me because you hate I mean, you genuinely hate to see Trump's approval ratings where they are, because that's that's how we get to Democrats controlling both houses of Congress and God forbid the White House, too.
00:59:12.880I mean, to me, that's genuinely scary. The problem is the numbers are going in one direction and it's not great.
00:59:20.980This is the latest from Harry Enten, who took a look at Trump's approval ratings this morning.
00:59:26.200Trump's net approval rating hits a new low.
00:59:31.020And what you just see on your screen right here is it's been a steady climb downward.
00:59:36.640You know, you go back to January of 2025.
00:59:38.880At the beginning, it was plus six, then minus six by May 2025, minus nine, minus 14, minus 15.
00:59:43.720But over the last few months, as the Iran war has taken shape, as those gas prices have
00:59:48.960jumped through the roof. Trump has hit a new low. He's at minus 20 points, which is the lowest point
00:59:54.620of his second term. Have there been any polls recently in which Trump has not had a negative
01:00:00.280net approval rating? Every poll since March 29, 2025, that is over a year ago, you can't find a
01:00:08.320single poll in which he has anything but a net negative approval rating. And you just look right
01:00:14.380at this and say the net effect on your personal finances. The best of the group is the tax law,
01:00:19.380right? That's 16 points underwater. How about tariffs? 49 points underwater. How about the
01:00:24.880Iran war? That effect on your finances? 67 points underwater. No wonder Trump is underwater in every
01:00:31.380single poll. No wonder he's hitting new lows in the aggregate. Oh, that is depressing stuff. But
01:00:38.400we're six months out from the midterms and maybe there's some some time to stop the bleeding.
01:00:44.380Um, the problem is he doesn't really seem to recognize those numbers as real, Glenn, because when given the chance to show even fake empathy for people's economic situation at home, he doesn't.
01:00:59.960it's i mean to his credit it's really not on brand for trump to do so and he's sticking with
01:01:05.360his authentic self but it's like as a supporter of generally more republicans than democrats i'd
01:01:12.020certainly like to see at least an attempt at it because people are hurting and clearly they're
01:01:16.540angry yeah i mean i think the only thing i like on cnn by the way is harriet because it's kind of
01:01:21.720like pulling data in the form of like catskill or the borch belt comedian kind of delivery it's like
01:01:28.160very weird mix it actually makes it interesting yes like a dancing yeah yeah it's bizarre nothing
01:01:34.640is interesting to see and accept that and also by the way he's pretty straightforward about things
01:01:38.680like he's talked before about the democrats difficulty about trump's popularity he's not
01:01:43.160really a partisan hack he tries to really stick to what the plunk out of shows yeah um i think
01:01:49.300on the one hand trump's insularity on this question is understandable because both times
01:01:55.560that he ran when he won the poll showed him losing by a significant margin and and it damaged the
01:02:03.060credibility of polling there was that whole ridiculous poll from man seltzer in iowa the
01:02:07.820gold standard that made everyone think trump was not going to just lose but lose big and then he
01:02:11.880of course won uh uh iowa easily um so i understand that on the one hand but on the other i think a
01:02:18.300lot of this is that trump is so surrounded by sycophants it really has become the culture of
01:02:23.520the lighthouse that they constantly are just showing him anything positive like he constantly
01:02:27.580goes back to this one magra poll that for self-identified magra people at the beginning
01:02:31.680of the war that he's like i'm at 100 it's become like i'm at 100 with everybody and you see there
01:02:36.340the unpopularity of the iran war which of course is going to be unpopular he ran on a promise not
01:02:41.380to engage the country in this these kind of wars and if there weren't any implications at home
01:02:46.440that there weren't you know there aren't uh thankfully huge numbers of troops being killed
01:02:51.480but there already are disruptions at the gas price at the gas pipe and i think a big part of
01:02:56.140that is this message that has been conveyed from dc for so long we're not we don't really care about
01:03:01.380your suffering we're interested in these fun little adventures over here these wars over here
01:03:05.920these big meetings over here and you know trump ran on a basic promise to represent what he called
01:03:11.760the forgotten men and women the working class of the united states the de-industrialized rust belt
01:03:15.980and the focus of the administration has been not on that has been in many ways the opposite this
01:03:21.100war is extremely unpopular and i think the problem is um with this war is that there's really no way
01:03:27.980out for for trump i can't you know it's kind of like the war in ukraine and russia i always from
01:03:33.520the beginning said if nato defines victory as every russian troop out of every inch of ukrainian
01:03:39.820soil including crimea that is never going to happen and since nato defined it that way there
01:03:45.880could never be an end to the war because that was never going to happen and either they would accept
01:03:50.040an ending of the war that wasn't that admit defeat to russia which they couldn't do or the
01:03:53.120war would just go on forever which it seems like it is same with this war the iranians aren't going
01:03:57.660to give trump the things he said he needs because they don't feel threatened enough they feel like
01:04:01.140they're in a good position and the longer it goes on even though it's not active combat prices are
01:04:07.340going to rise oil is going to rise there's huge disruptions in the energy market globally but
01:04:11.760all sorts of other secondary uh implications as well people are feeling it where they care most
01:04:16.980which is at the pocketbook. Already, midterms are hard for an incumbent president. When you add
01:04:21.420on economic difficulties, a very unpopular war that's hung around Trump's neck that he talks
01:04:26.020about all the time because he has to, I think it's very, very grim. I mean, the best thing
01:04:31.840the Republicans have going for them is the Democrats. They've got that. And that is not
01:04:36.780nothing. You look at your crazy ass opponent. It's like, you're still in it no matter how low1.00
01:04:41.560Trump's approval ratings are. He did speak with Sean Hannity over in Beijing, where he's been
01:04:47.940for a couple of days this week in this bilateral summit with Xi Jinping. Some interesting things
01:04:53.800happened before I get to the soundbite. This one jumped out at me, and I'll explain why.
01:05:00.840Late Thursday, okay, let me jump back a little earlier. Xi gave a speech. It was his opening
01:05:09.560remarks at the bilateral meeting. And in it, in those remarks, he questioned if the two nations
01:05:16.480could overcome the, now forgive me because this is tough for me, but it's the Thucydides trap,
01:05:23.740the Thucydides, Thucydides trap. And that's a theory suggesting that when a rising power
01:05:30.980threatens to displace an established one, a war could result. So the Chinese president0.96
01:05:40.040raised that in his opening remarks, addressing the American president, which is extremely
01:05:47.200provocative. I mean, that is not diplomacy. That is, we're the rising power. They've been
01:05:52.820open about their plan to be the world's greatest superpower by 2050. And they can wait. And the
01:06:00.660reason it jumped out at me is because I actually happened to be reading this book right here that
01:06:04.280my husband recommended to me called Destined for War by Graham Allison. And the subtitle is
01:06:10.820Can America and China Escape Thucydides Trap? And it's all about that exact thing. It's a very0.87
01:06:16.700interesting book and it's not that dense. You know, you can read it even though it has the
01:06:20.180word Thucydides in the front. And it's all about how China is well positioned to win this conflict
01:06:27.560between the two countries because it has never ending patience and it is the rising power and0.79
01:06:33.220that we are the declining power. At least we're behaving like it. We have active decisions that
01:06:38.140project that and that it's Sparta and Athens and the declining power eventually will lash out and
01:06:50.380that there will be armed conflict between the two. So he gets up there, the Chinese president,
01:06:55.460and raises this question right in front of us, rude.
01:07:25.460And, you know, Trump, who was behaving more diplomatically, chose to ignore it and deftly put it on an earlier president so they could still get along, which I have to say was a good move by Trump.
01:07:36.180But one has to hope that Trump recognizes, in fact, what it was and behaves accordingly because he doesn't sound like he's getting ready to do that, Glenn.
01:07:45.700Instead, he said the following. Let me start with SOT 5, which seems to be making excuses for some rather offensive intrusions the Chinese are about to make into our country, which will only accelerate their rise.0.99
01:08:00.960And you could argue accelerate our decline. Here it is. SOT 5.1.00
01:08:04.980I would assume I'm in Beijing if I wanted to buy property near one of their military installations. I don't think President Xi.
01:08:14.100Yeah, I don't. Look, it's not that I love it. You want to see farm prices drop? You want to see farmers lose a lot of money? Just take that out of the market. But they've had a lot of land for a long time. Obama did nothing about it. They bought a lot of it during the Obama administration. He did nothing about it. As far as the students, it's 500,000 students. They come good students.
01:08:40.540uh wow i could tell them i don't want any students is a very insulting thing to say to a country
01:08:50.720they would then immediately go out inside building universities all over china i frankly think that
01:08:57.500it's good that people come from other countries and they learn our culture and many of them want
01:09:02.160stay here oh glenn who wants that literally what american wants it was 300 000 chinese students like0.50
01:09:13.480two months ago now it's 500 000 and he goes on to say many of them will stay here we don't want0.87
01:09:19.820that either we don't want them taking up our university slots at our most prestigious universities
01:09:23.780and we definitely don't want them staying nor do we want them buying up american farmland
01:09:28.380well there are some americans who actually do want that particularly wall street and the
01:09:35.160corporate community they love the right they're in bed with the chinese and always have been
01:09:39.260i think if you look at you know this kind of theory about declining and rising powers that
01:09:44.480uh you are mentioning the chinese president raised that that book uh addresses i read parts
01:09:49.280of that book i think i don't know a couple years ago um and uh the the big difference to me in
01:09:57.080terms of the U.S.-China relationship, aside from the fact that both sides have nuclear weapons,
01:10:00.560and so a war could mean instantaneous extinction of the planet and the species, which I think adds
01:10:05.540a pretty big component, is that generally when the United States goes to war with a country,
01:10:11.580Iran or Iraq or Afghanistan or Vietnam or whatever, all the power centers are united
01:10:18.020in the idea that that's an enemy country. The business community has always depended on China.0.71
01:10:23.180Look at how many American firms, crucial American firms, Tesla and Apple and on and on, use China and related markets for very cheap labor, for very cheap production costs, and then ship those products back to the United States in order to be priced competitively.
01:10:40.180And there's all, I mean, Elon Musk and all those CEOs went to China because China is crucial to their business model.
01:10:45.620and trump is very much of this class he you know he's a nativist he's anti-immigrant
01:10:50.820on the one hand but if you look at how china had the how trump has talked about china
01:10:55.900and especially president xi president trump has this admiration for people he thinks are like
01:11:02.540strong tough leaders even if they're dictatorial even if they're he this is something that he
01:11:08.260respects on a personal level people are like tough and strong and have an iron grip on power
01:11:13.640and President Xi and the Chinese merit respect
01:16:46.660You know, the president, I do think he understands that there are risks and he's trying to play
01:16:49.780the long game, but it's frustrating to hear talk of half a million Chinese students coming and
01:16:54.220staying to America. No, thank you. OK, one more. There was an admission on the Iran war,
01:17:01.840which jumped out at me and it might to you, too. Here it is in Sot 7.
01:17:05.520We're doing it to help Israel and to help Saudi Arabia and to help Qatar and UAE and,
01:17:12.440you know kuwait and other countries bahrain it also helps china and we're actually i told him
01:17:20.560today i said you know we're helping you and we're helping you in another way because i don't think
01:17:25.580they want i don't think china wants iran to have a nuclear weapon either i said just don't go crazy
01:17:32.580you don't need them having a nuclear weapon either what did he say what did he say well he's not
01:17:37.300going to respond too much he's a pretty cool guy he's not going to say oh gee that's a good point
01:17:41.920I think he might. What's he going to do? I mean, what a wonderful point. You think he agreed?
01:17:46.400Yeah, I think that was the impression. I don't think he wants him to know he would like to see
01:17:50.980it end. But he's been good about it, you know. So there it is. I mean, lest there was any doubt,
01:17:59.680it's the first thing in the answer. We did it to help Israel. We're doing it to help his renamed
01:18:03.920other countries. He has said the world can't have Iran having a nuclear weapon. But just to say that0.66
01:18:09.220is so controversial that we're doing it to help Israel. We know. We know that. We've said that
01:18:13.480many times. And then you get called an anti-Semite. But that's not anti-Semitic. It is a fact. You
01:18:17.760heard it from the president of the United States himself. He thinks it's also helping some of the
01:18:22.360Gulf Arab states. Fine. That's not controversial. You can say that. But prior to the president
01:18:27.340saying it himself explicitly, you weren't allowed to say that other piece of it or you were called
01:18:30.620an anti-Semite. I thought this was a movement that was calling itself America First. And then
01:18:38.940And you have Trump saying, oh, yeah, this war, it's kind of helping us.
01:18:42.920We don't want them to have a nuclear weapon.0.80
01:18:43.940But, you know, yeah, we're helping Israel get rid of their big enemy.0.91
01:18:47.780And also, when we talk about these Persian Gulf states, what we mean are Persian Gulf dictatorships,0.73
01:18:53.240Arab dictatorships that have extreme levels of human rights abuses that we claim to be so offended when they appear in Iran.
01:19:02.160You think protesters fare any better in Dubai or in Riyadh or in Doha or in any in Bahrain or Kuwait?0.99
01:19:11.240No, they or then Iran. No, they don't. And this idea, you know, we're and also the Strait of Hormuz, Trump himself said at the beginning out of frustration.
01:19:19.740Look, if you're not willing to go to a war with Iran to open the Strait of Hormuz, we don't have to do it.0.57
01:19:24.660We don't need the Strait of Hormuz, which is true. We don't get oil from the Strait of Hormuz.
01:19:28.360China does, and the Gulf states need the Strait of Hormuz to sell oil, but Trump is in bed with
01:19:35.320these Persian Gulf dictators. He loves them, too. They're extremely rich. They have a kind of shared
01:19:39.800aesthetic with this very ostentatious, gold-laden kind of wealth expression. He loves them. His
01:19:48.400family's in bed with the Persian Gulf states, and he's very close to them. He listens to them,
01:19:53.880and obviously to Israel. And I don't think these are good things for our country. Why are we1.00
01:19:57.920why are we prosecuting a war that's harming americans for the benefits of israel or these
01:20:02.860persian gulf dictators and on the question of china yeah i mean opening up the strait of hormuz
01:20:08.300is far more in china's interest than ours the problem is is that the only reason the strait
01:20:12.160of hormuz is closed is because israel is because united states joined israel and attacking iran
01:20:17.520it was perfectly open the strait of hormuz was prior to this war for forever it's only closed
01:20:22.080now because it was a response to the attack on on iran and i think the rest of the world is like
01:20:26.880you caused this problem. It's your responsibility to fix it. And I think it's a reasonable view
01:20:31.160for most countries to have. It does make you wonder, though, if we did just pack up and go
01:20:35.860home, would China swoop in and just make them open it? You know, like what if we really did
01:20:41.220just say, yeah, sorry, but we're out. We did break the thing at Pottery Barn and we're not
01:20:47.280going to pay for it. We're just going to walk out of the store like good luck getting us.
01:20:50.780I mean, it would be kind of interesting. And I am so in favor of just wrapping it up for so many
01:20:54.680reasons. That's very tempting to me. Probably the Chinese are much better positioned to make
01:20:59.780the Iranians open it than we are since they're a big customer. I don't know. It seems like something
01:21:04.440we should have on the table. Well, I think what would happen is Iran would just say China is more
01:21:10.520than welcome to use this trade of Hormuz because of the power relationship, because they buy so
01:21:15.600much oil from Iran from that area. And the Chinese do have a lot of power and leverage with Iran,
01:21:21.440but they could charge for pretty much everybody else and they could do it on a country by country0.84
01:21:26.240basis. Remember, Iran is not closing the Strait of Hormuz. Iran is closing the Strait of Hormuz
01:21:31.560for the United States, for people they don't want using the Strait of Hormuz and charging for the
01:21:35.740rest. The United States is the one that has a blockade on any ships going to or from Iran.
01:21:41.300So it's the United States that's blockading the Strait of Hormuz from the Chinese perspective,0.55
01:21:44.740not the Iranians. So if the Americans went home tomorrow, like you said, which I think we should0.99
01:21:50.440do because there's no benefit in continuing this war or anything else it's only harming Americans
01:21:54.620the Chinese would be fine they do a lot of business with Iran Iran would perfectly allow
01:21:58.880them to use this trade of Hormuz under whatever commercial terms the Chinese are comfortable with
01:22:02.900this war is serving nobody's interest other than Israel's and yes there's animosity now
01:22:09.780in Saudi Arabia and and and the Emirates and and and the the the the uh in Bahrain and and with the0.73
01:22:17.840with the Qataris because Iran attacked those countries and they attacked those countries
01:22:21.700because the U.S. used military bases in them to attack Iran. They would work that out. They would
01:22:26.040they they don't want regional conflict. They don't want to go to war with Iran. Iran's a huge country.
01:22:30.380So everybody would be fine if they left tomorrow except one country. And that country's name is1.00
01:22:34.360Israel. That's the reason why Trump can't get out. Yes, correct. And that's the reason why
01:22:40.180Trump got in. And it's the reason why he can't get out. And it's one of the reasons why Americans
01:22:45.420are more disapproving of Israel now than ever. And that's not anti-Semitism. That's something
01:22:52.440called policy, Benjamin Netanyahu, and time after time in which they've pulled us into
01:23:00.240their fight. I mean, just the most recently, twice in the last year, June, and now again,
01:23:06.660with this war. Okay, we have to take a break. We're going to be right back. Glenn stays with
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01:27:22.440So, Glenn, this week it came out that the Alec Murdaugh conviction for killing his wife and son, Paul, had been overturned and he's been granted a new trial by the Supreme Court of South Carolina.
01:27:39.420Very interesting case. I think they 100% made the right decision, even though I think he's guilty, because there was a clerk of court named Becky Hill who clearly interfered with the jury, who there was testimony. She was explicitly telling them, watch his body language when he was taking the stand.
01:27:56.300another juror who would ultimately be dismissed, the so-called egg juror, because she left her0.99
01:28:00.520eggs in the jury room. And when she got dismissed, said, can I go get my eggs, my dozen eggs in the0.92
01:28:05.200jury room, testified that Becky Hill explicitly said to her, you know, he's basically he's guilty.
01:28:12.120I mean, like she really just explicit manipulation. This woman was very manipulative. And Alec Murdoch,1.00
01:28:19.720just like the rest of us, deserves a trial free from interference by the court clerk.
01:28:25.060Now, one of the jurors, now, keep in mind, only three of the jurors said they even had any interaction with Becky Hill in which she said anything to them beyond there's the bathroom and here's your lunch.
01:28:37.320And so NBC appears to have booked one of the ones who had nothing to do with Becky Hill.
01:28:41.220And that person is named Amy Williams.
01:28:44.200And this is what she had to say in Sat 25.
01:28:48.560Five. Some jurors tonight in disbelief at the court's decision undoing their verdict.
01:28:55.740And I was like, what? Why? The evidence was overwhelming. He was guilty.
01:29:03.640Now we also get Alec Murdoch's reaction to the news breaking in The New York Times. He reportedly
01:29:08.740said, quote, I still don't believe it. I don't believe it. Per his lawyers, they say he told
01:29:14.940he told them that in prison. He did not believe that they, they've denied so many of his emotions.
01:29:20.660He just didn't think he'd get one. They are going to move for a change of venue if and when
01:29:25.300the new prosecution is filed either by the current AG or when his term ends. All those running for
01:29:30.560the AG spot have all said they want to retry him too. And we debated on this show the other day
01:29:34.940about whether they'd move for a change of venue, which is his hometown, and he might like it there.
01:29:39.560And they are saying, indeed, they will try to seek a change of venue for this case.
01:29:44.940The jurors, let's see, the state Supreme Court said the judge who oversaw the first trial had allowed prosecutors to go too far, too long and far too deep into his financial wrongdoings.
01:29:55.780So if and when they do retry him, they will not be able to go deep on what a financial crook he was, which was the motive for the crimes.
01:30:04.480That's why he killed them. He wanted sympathy as both his law firm and the plaintiffs in this other case were zeroing in on his finances.
01:30:14.320and that's why he murdered his own family.
01:30:19.060Now, meantime, he's already been convicted
01:30:21.060for the financial crimes in a separate proceeding
01:30:23.780and sentenced to a 27-year state prison sentence
01:32:53.420Putting someone in prison, like Benjamin Franklin and Thomas Jefferson said, it's better to let 10 guilty people go than to punish one innocent person.
01:33:02.100like these rules really matter, putting people in a cage for life. You want to make sure the
01:33:06.360rules are really abided by before we let the state do that. And even if he is undoubtedly guilty,
01:33:13.840and I haven't studied the case in depth, but from what I've seen, I think the evidence is
01:33:18.380overwhelming. I think a retrial is appropriate when you have an officer of the court influencing
01:33:23.700the jury, even if she didn't influence it, tried to in ways that clearly if you were a defendant
01:33:28.580or if it was your family member who was the defendant facing many years in prison on a horrible crime,
01:33:33.240you would feel like that was totally a contaminated procedure.
01:33:36.820And I think it's an important thing because also what you're talking about here is, you know,
01:33:40.180he comes, as I'm sure you've talked about many times covering the story,
01:33:43.080from like one of the most powerful families in South Carolina, you know,
01:33:46.120generations of prosecutors and, you know, lead law enforcement officers, very wealthy,
01:33:52.180very politically powerful, kind of an aristocratic South Carolina family.
01:33:55.400I think it was so important to demonstrate that even somebody like that in South Carolina is going to be held accountable under the law.
01:34:02.620And they really have done a very good job of doing so.
01:34:05.480So I think it's also appropriate to retry him.
01:34:08.180But also, like the Harvey Weinstein case, I think, also has such an important lesson about our criminal justice system.
01:34:14.300I'll just tell you quickly. In Brazil, there was this case where there was this dog that got murdered.
01:34:20.900um and it was like a beloved community dog it lived on the street but the whole community took
01:34:25.040care of the dog it was like their dog even though he was technically homeless and the story was that
01:34:30.520four teenage boys came and just tortured this dog beat it and then killed it can't hear it
01:34:36.240yeah no as but anyway as it turned out like that because they were teenagers no media outlet would
01:34:43.140report their their identity and so the internet found out their identities put their home addresses
01:34:48.780all over the internet and actually wrote a column saying this kind of mob justice is very disturbing
01:34:53.000because people can seem guilty based on what you know but the trial is a really important thing to
01:34:59.640actually determine guilt or innocence they've exhumed they exhumed the body of the dog turns
01:35:03.800out um they can't really find any signs that they were tortured the kids have always denied it but
01:35:08.420their lives are ruined because of this internet mob justice i think in the harvey weinstein case
01:35:12.920i'm not going to compare him to to them and suggest that he he's not guilty he's a horrible
01:35:18.680person but i do think the me too excesses produced a lot of hysteria where they changed laws about
01:35:25.580how long you can you have to bring cases that's why agent carroll was able to sue donald trump
01:35:30.540and i think it's so important that we not let the media social media political impulses dictate
01:35:39.520outcomes of who we decide are guilty and innocent. The laws and the rules that we have,
01:35:45.160even though they seem legalistic, have been developed over centuries. They're going back
01:35:48.680to British law and European enlightenment concepts. These were designed by our founders
01:35:53.040and shrined in the Constitution. These are really important. And I think it's very
01:35:56.240good to have these kind of cases that illustrate there, even though it seems like it's an annoying
01:36:02.540bureaucratic process that often impedes justice. At the end of the day, it is the system that
01:36:08.600high as the highest potential of producing justice. Yes, I totally agree. I do agree with
01:36:14.700everything you said. And that was one of the big things we weren't getting was trial by jury
01:36:18.480when we had our revolution and demanded a new way. And that's why it's in the Constitution as a right
01:36:23.820we all have to a trial by jury of our peers. And that jury must be impartial or as practically
01:36:29.540impartial as we can get in today's day and age. And he did not have that because of Becky Hill.
01:36:35.240So that's we got to do it. All right. This is a left field story, but I love these stories.0.67
01:36:41.300So I've decided to bring this to you, Glenn. We have another pretendian in the news.1.00
01:36:46.360What is a pretendian, you ask? It is someone pretending to be an Indian for cultural status, fake degrees, honorary degrees.1.00
01:36:54.040Of course, we must pay homage to the original pretendian.0.93
01:36:59.160And that would be Elizabeth Warren, who, for our younger viewers who don't remember this, she pretended to be an Indian for many years, was listed on the Harvard Law School faculty roster as a Native American, tried to write a cookbook based on her Native American heritage, which was fake.0.69
01:37:17.520She has no Native American heritage whatsoever, but she got away for years by claiming she was. And this is how she explained her lies when it came out that she wasn't. Sot 32B.
01:37:29.160I still have a picture on my mantle at home, and it's a picture my mother had before that, a picture of my grandfather.0.84
01:37:36.340And my Aunt Bea has walked by that picture at least a thousand times, remarked that her father, my papa, had high cheekbones like all of the Indians do, because that's how she saw it.
01:37:52.740And she said, and your mother got those same great cheekbones, and I didn't.
01:37:58.180she thought this was the bad deal she had gotten in life. Being Native American has been part of
01:38:05.420my story, I guess, since the day I was born. Okay, it was part of her story. All right. It
01:38:13.340was a fake part of her story. It was totally made up. These are lies she was telling.
01:38:19.140Yeah, she was advertised as Harvard's first Native American law professor.1.00
01:38:23.820In any event, we like the stories about the pretendians. And here is another one.1.00
01:38:27.340She has just her name is Buffy St. Marie. She was awarded an honorary doctorate of law degree from the University of Toronto in 2019. At the time, they said she was being recognized for her work in music and the arts, as well as for her advocacy for the rights and dignity of all people.
01:38:45.480But on Wednesday, the university voted to rescind her honorary degree because she was lying about her identity.1.00