The Megyn Kelly Show - Comey Indicted, Kamala Word Salad, and Hoda Kotb's Inane Book, with Maureen Callahan, Dave Aronberg, Mike Davis, and John Solomon ｜ Ep 1158

00:00:00.500 Welcome to The Megyn Kelly Show, live on Sirius XM Channel 111 every weekday at noon east.

00:00:12.160 Hey everyone, I'm Megyn Kelly. Welcome to The Megyn Kelly Show.

00:00:15.560 Maureen Callahan will be here with me soon to discuss Kamala Harris' disastrous book tour and more.

00:00:21.360 But we, of course, begin today with the historic indictment of FBI director, former James Comey.

00:00:27.560 It happened last night in the Eastern District of Virginia Federal Court.

00:00:32.140 He faces two felony counts, false statements to Congress, and obstruction of a congressional proceeding.

00:00:40.220 Both carry up to five years in prison.

00:00:42.940 It's massive news. We're not going to wait to get to our experts on this.

00:00:46.760 Joining us now, MK True Crime contributor Dave Ehrenberg, former prosecutor, and Article 3 Project founder and president Mike Davis.

00:00:54.060 These two have been sparring about lawfare involving and against President Trump for years.

00:00:59.420 Now they'll spar about lawfare initiated by the Trump administration.

00:01:03.940 And just the news founder and editor-in-chief, John Solomon, is with me as well.

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00:02:17.740 I'm going to start with you, Mike Davis, because I think you're closer than anybody here to the administration.

00:02:23.660 What has Jim Comey been indicted for?

00:02:28.840 Well, thank you for having me on.

00:02:31.100 John's also very close.

00:02:32.360 But I would say this, that Jim Comey was indicted because he lied to Congress, so 18 U.S.C. 1001 false statements, and then he obstructed a congressional proceeding or investigation.

00:02:47.140 So it's pretty clear cut that he did both of those things.

00:02:52.040 There was a grand jury that found probable cause that both of those things happened.

00:02:57.840 And so that's why Jim Comey, the former FBI director, is facing indictment.

00:03:02.400 I will say that I shouldn't take glee in someone being indicted, but I do.

00:03:07.060 I'll be honest with you.

00:03:08.040 James Comey is a scumbag.

00:03:11.880 He made up the Russian collusion hoax, the crossfire hurricane investigation.

00:03:17.080 He set up General Flynn as the incoming national security advisor.

00:03:22.900 This guy is a saboteur of the duly elected president of the United States, and he can go to prison, and he can also go to hell.

00:03:31.600 Yeah, I appreciate your candor.

00:03:35.700 I really do, honestly.

00:03:36.640 I'm feeling the same.

00:03:37.640 I have absolutely no empathy for James Comey.

00:03:40.040 He seems like a genuinely bad guy.

00:03:42.380 To me, it seems like he committed multiple crimes that he got away with because the statute of limitations expired.

00:03:47.680 And now our only question today is to figure out whether these are viable and valid and or whether he'll be able to get them dismissed for whatever reason, and we can go through them.

00:03:58.160 All right, so I didn't get the answer, the actual answer.

00:04:00.880 I'm going to try with John on, okay, I get that those are the legal claims.

00:04:04.340 You know, I get it.

00:04:05.380 There are two counts against him.

00:04:07.060 What were the lies?

00:04:08.740 Because I, like you guys, have read the two-page indictment, and it's very thin.

00:04:13.960 It does not tell us what is the perjury.

00:04:17.060 I mean, it says, okay, he testified during a Senate Judiciary Committee hearing that he had not authorized someone else at the FBI to be an anonymous source in news reports regarding an FBI investigation concerning Person 1.

00:04:39.440 We don't know who that is.

00:04:40.220 Okay, then they say that was false because he had.

00:04:45.020 He had done that.

00:04:46.620 Now, what's not in here, John, is what are they talking about?

00:04:52.740 Who did he authorize to be an anonymous source, and what news reports?

00:04:57.620 Do we know?

00:04:58.100 We don't yet.

00:05:00.520 I mean, we think it involves an October 2016 leak to the Wall Street Journal about the Hillary Clinton investigation, and there are two people that have come forward.

00:05:12.500 We have their documents.

00:05:13.620 We've made them public that say that James Comey authorized them to leak to the news media.

00:05:19.000 One of them is Andy McCabe.

00:05:21.180 Andy McCabe has a credibility issue.

00:05:22.720 He's a guy that was found himself to have lied in an inspector general report, but he was a deputy director in the inner circle of James Comey's team.

00:05:33.040 And then the second is James Baker, a highly respected general counsel at the FBI.

00:05:37.740 He has not been indicted or accused of any wrongdoing.

00:05:40.840 And he said, listen, I'm just going to be straight with you guys.

00:05:44.040 When he was interviewed by the Postal Inspection Service, they brought them in as an independent agency when they were looking at leaking during the Comey errors.

00:05:51.180 Hey, James Comey asked me to leak.

00:05:53.120 And he not only asked me to leak, he asked me to leak classified information.

00:05:56.960 And that instruction came through his chief of staff, James Rubicki.

00:06:00.500 So both men claim that they were authorized to leak in this time frame around the October 2016 Wall Street Journal article.

00:06:08.660 Now, I will agree with you, Megan.

00:06:10.200 This is the thinnest worded dog indictment I have ever seen as a reporter.

00:06:14.580 It is so lean.

00:06:15.800 I was looking for an introduction.

00:06:17.280 Didn't even get that.

00:06:18.800 We will get some.

00:06:19.580 It's been shot up with a Zempick. 1.00

00:06:21.240 That is how lean it is.

00:06:22.840 Exactly.

00:06:23.620 It is that lean.

00:06:25.000 We're going to get more details next week.

00:06:27.020 I think there will be some either an FBI affidavit in support of it or when the and then when the arraignment comes, we'll get a little bit more detail.

00:06:36.040 But I was shocked by the leanness.

00:06:38.340 Based on the documents we have, we believe it involves that Wall Street Journal article in October 2016.

00:06:43.660 OK, before we move on from that point, you said, OK, possibly he leaked to Andy McCabe, who was his deputy at the FBI, and possibly to James Baker, who worked for him at the FBI.

00:06:52.560 Ask them to leak.

00:06:53.460 Ask them to leak.

00:06:54.480 Sorry, sorry.

00:06:55.100 Ask them to leak while they were all FBI employees.

00:06:58.460 Now, the Andy McCabe leak that you're referencing, is that the one that Andy McCabe already got reamed by a DOJ inspector general for?

00:07:08.900 Because there was a difference of opinion.

00:07:11.200 Andy McCabe leaked to the journal, and then he came out and said, I did it.

00:07:16.040 But Comey kind of authorized it after the fact.

00:07:19.560 I told Comey about it, and he authorized it, not before the fact.

00:07:23.520 But then the inspector general just laid into Comey, and the inspector general certainly seemed to think that, laid into McCabe, seemed to think that McCabe was the liar.

00:07:32.720 Because Comey was like, I didn't authorize it.

00:07:34.920 McCabe was like, he did, though it was after the fact.

00:07:36.880 And it seemed like the inspector general was like, McCabe is the liar.

00:07:40.020 And I'm actually thinking he should, he might potentially need to get prosecuted for lying.

00:07:44.780 It didn't happen.

00:07:45.940 So is that the possible McCabe leak that you and I are talking about right now?

00:07:49.720 Yeah, listen, they're all talking about the same story and who leaked when what and who approved what when.

00:07:53.720 What's most important in this chain of events, the one clearest direction to leak, one that doesn't have the muddled up analysis of the inspector general or the problems of Andy McCabe's own credibility, is what James Baker said.

00:08:10.460 James Baker is unequivocal in his interview with the Postal Inspection Service.

00:08:14.140 We put that document out.

00:08:15.380 You were kind enough to have me on your show.

00:08:16.720 We talked about it then.

00:08:17.880 I think it's a really important document.

00:08:20.520 It is a claim by a member of the Comey inner circle that he was instructed in advance to leak something and that what he leaked was classified information and that that instruction came from James Comey through the chief of staff.

00:08:34.600 So if you're the United States Justice Department, when you bring this case, you're going to have to bring in James Rebicki, James Baker, and Andy McCabe, and you're going to have to synchronize their stories.

00:08:46.940 Rebicki is the chief of staff who allegedly gave the instruction from Comey to there.

00:08:51.740 Now, we also know that there are some emails and text messages, and I would not be surprised that in the next version of this indictment or the next affidavit from the FBI agent that we get a little bit more flesh on the bone.

00:09:03.980 But there's a lot to still be answered here, and I think that our suspicions are well-founded.

00:09:09.860 We need to get more data than we got in the original indictment.

00:09:13.060 Is the James Baker leak what you and I discussed that was in the Durham annex that had been kept hidden from us and just got released in the latest tranche?

00:09:22.640 Or where did that come from?

00:09:23.800 The Baker leak is actually in a timeline that Kash Patel found buried in a system in the FBI, and it's a timeline of all the leak investigations that occurred in the Comey-Ray era.

00:09:36.380 And in there, there were some remarkable claims.

00:09:39.180 And when they first got released by the Trump Justice Department, ironically, the Trump Justice Department redacted the most important piece of information, this story by James Baker.

00:09:48.180 We appealed to the Justice Department, and Pam Bonney intervened and got it unredacted, and that's when we got this piece.

00:09:53.820 So it's a timeline that someone in the FBI decided to write.

00:09:57.360 When you look at it, it looks a little bit like a CYA timeline.

00:10:00.480 Like, hey, if anyone ever asks, I want you to let you know what really went on with these leak investigations.

00:10:04.820 And in the middle of that timeline is this extraordinary story, which we have corroborated independent of the timeline, that Baker gave this testimony, and he stands by that testimony to this very day.

00:10:16.380 That's not good for Comey, but I'm sure it was like finding a pot of gold for the Trump DOJ, which suspected Comey was a bad guy and that there would be proof of some potential crime, and I think may have stumbled upon it.

00:10:28.400 So, long story short, Mike, before I go to Dave, don't believe the mainstream media that this is a—and we'll get to the political motivation and all that—but, like, that on the merits, this is a baloney case.

00:10:41.320 This actually could have real substance if you have James Baker saying, Jim Comey, through his intermediary, told me to leak, and I did leak on that direction, and Jim Comey, under oath, it's on camera, saying, no, I didn't.

00:10:56.300 Yeah, I mean, look, you're looking at the grand jury in the Eastern District of Virginia, which is filled with Democrats and government workers right across the Potomac River from the grand jury in D.C. that refuses to indict violent criminals.

00:11:12.320 And so, there is definitely probable cause to move forward with these indictments if the grand jury found that there was probable cause.

00:11:20.980 This is not some Southern District of Texas grand jury, again, Eastern District of Virginia.

00:11:26.620 Okay. Now, Dave, here we go to you.

00:11:31.280 What? Jim Comey hired Patrick Fitzgerald, a former federal prosecutor, the guy who went after Scooter Libby, among others, and he's sort of known as a Joe Friday kind of lawyer.

00:11:42.880 It depends on who you ask, but he knows his way around a federal courthouse, that's for sure.

00:11:46.460 He put out a very slim two-line statement saying, we look forward to his complete vindication in court, and then you got the weepy sort of soft-voiced Jim Comey long, like, I'm innocent and don't get down on your knees, and vote like your government and your country depend on, ah, the self-serving, sanctimonious Comey Act.

00:12:09.240 I don't know if I have it in me to play it. We did it on AM Update. But let's say you're talking to Pat Fitzgerald, and the two of you are chatting about how you're going to go after this.

00:12:18.900 Again, we're talking about legal merits now. We'll get to whether this is politically motivated, unless you think that's relevant to how you'll go after it. What do you say?

00:12:27.400 Well, Megan, you asked the right question from the beginning. We don't know what the leak was, and that's crucial here.

00:12:33.720 Okay, aside from their strategy, which will be focused on vindictive prosecution and selective prosecution so it never gets to a jury, we still need to know what was the leak?

00:12:43.400 What was the article? And for that, I would like to ask John Solomon, because then I have a response to that.

00:12:48.480 What was the article that James Baker allegedly leaked?

00:12:52.240 It was a consequential story that a lot of people believe, at least Hillary Clinton believes, swung the election. 0.57

00:13:00.220 There's an irony in this that he's being prosecuted for leaking a story that may have been damaging to Hillary Clinton.

00:13:04.840 It was about what was going on in the Hillary Clinton email case and the Anthony Weiner laptop and what went on in that period of time.

00:13:11.940 Isn't it an irony that what may ultimately be, if this turns out to be the article, again, the indictment is so thin, we don't know what article they were speaking about.

00:13:20.700 Just to clarify, and I'll give it back to you in a second, Dave, but just to clarify, so that article was one, if memory serves, in which the FBI outed that it was having a war with the DOJ about what to do about Hillary and all those emails.

00:13:35.400 That's right. That's right. And then there's a piece of classified information that's disclosed.

00:13:40.120 Okay.

00:13:40.400 Okay, go ahead, Dave.

00:13:40.980 If it's about Hillary Clinton and Andrew McCabe, Megan, you're correct.

00:13:47.000 The inspector general found that it was Andrew McCabe was the one who could not be trusted, lacked candor, and that he said after the fact that he told Comey that he had leaked this stuff, and Comey shrugged.

00:13:59.780 It was not an authorization. Authorization has to be done beforehand, not afterwards, right?

00:14:04.420 But then John Solomon correctly brings up James Baker, which is separate, because McCabe has his own issues here.

00:14:12.380 Baker did come clean and say there was a leak.

00:14:16.820 But here's the thing.

00:14:17.900 It looks like, according to the documents that are involved here, which we're all basing it after, the article that James Baker led to, that he leaked for, was not a Hillary Clinton article, but something totally different.

00:14:30.680 Because if you look at the documents, it says that this article appeared in October 2016, that it was sourced to two government officials.

00:14:38.980 It contained classified information and involved, of course, the FBI.

00:14:43.880 There's only one news article that meets that criteria, according to the New York Times, if you do a search, and it's an article about Yahoo aiding the U.S. email surveillance by adapting a spam filter, not the Hillary Clinton stuff, right?

00:14:58.760 So if that's the case, right, and if John agrees, if that's the case, then there is no lie.

00:15:04.240 That's right, because you remember what the question was by Cruz.

00:15:06.820 It had to involve the Clinton.

00:15:08.580 Right, exactly.

00:15:09.120 Yeah, that's exactly right.

00:15:10.120 Cruz teed it up when he was getting Comey on the record, because just for the audience at home, because I know this is a lot to follow, Comey was under oath in 17, and Chuck Grassley of Iowa asked him, a Republican, have you leaked?

00:15:22.620 And have you authorized anybody to leak?

00:15:24.700 And he said no and no.

00:15:26.160 Well, we can't get him on those charges, because that's a long time ago, and it's only a five-year statute of limitations.

00:15:30.980 But in 2020, they had another shot at Comey.

00:15:33.460 And Ted Cruz brought up the Grassley testimony and said, do you stand by all that?

00:15:38.400 Because, by the way, Andrew McCabe suggests you did tell him to leak.

00:15:42.160 But in any event, do you stand by that earlier testimony to Chuck Grassley?

00:15:45.340 And Comey said yes, but it was specifically about, did you leak about the Hillary investigation the FBI was doing or the Trump administration?

00:15:54.240 Here's the Ted Cruz exchange that, you know, we believe has led to this indictment.

00:16:00.800 We're pretty sure the Ted Cruz exchange is the basis of the indictment.

00:16:04.280 We're just not sure exactly which leak or article he's talking about here.

00:16:09.920 On May 3rd, 2017, in this committee, Chairman Grassley asked you point blank, quote,

00:16:16.980 Have you ever been an anonymous source in news reports about matters relating to the Trump investigation or the Clinton investigation?

00:16:24.620 You responded under oath, quote, never.

00:16:27.300 Now, as you know, Mr. McCabe, who works for you, has publicly and repeatedly stated that he leaked information to the Wall Street Journal and that you were directly aware of it and that you directly authorized it.

00:16:55.360 Now, what Mr. McCabe is saying and what you testified to this committee cannot both be true.

00:17:02.640 One or the other is false.

00:17:04.840 Who's telling the truth?

00:17:07.220 I can only speak to my testimony.

00:17:09.300 I stand by what the testimony you summarized that I gave in May of 2017.

00:17:13.940 So your testimony is you've never authorized anyone to leak.

00:17:16.940 And Mr. McCabe, if he says contrary, is not telling the truth.

00:17:20.820 Is that correct?

00:17:21.900 Again, I'm not going to characterize Andy's testimony, but mine is the same today.

00:17:26.860 Okay.

00:17:27.380 So just to go back to John Solomon for a second, what's your response to Dave's point that the only thing he thinks James Baker was involved in leaking is about a Yahoo article?

00:17:36.960 Yeah, we don't know which one the classified, we still don't know what James Baker leaked.

00:17:41.660 We know it's in the same time frame as the article of that.

00:17:44.380 We know it's the same time frame where they're asking McCabe.

00:17:47.000 What I think is problematic for the prosecution there is that Ted Cruz's question goes two different ways.

00:17:53.580 When he starts it, it's did you ever leak about the Trump administration or Trump investigation in Clinton?

00:17:59.540 And he ends it asking, did you ever leak at all or authorize anyone to leak at all?

00:18:04.320 That's going to be an ambiguous, if they're arresting the case on that second follow-up on Ted Cruz, which we don't know yet because we have so little information,

00:18:14.420 a jury's going to say, man, we are really starting to split hairs here on what you're trying to pin Comey down.

00:18:19.660 I think one of our problems right now to judge the strength of this indictment is we need to know exactly what the grand jury made the decision on.

00:18:26.840 Grand juries are pretty perceptive.

00:18:28.800 They sometimes have lawyers on them, which is a good thing.

00:18:32.540 There has to be something more than what we're able to speculate on here for the grand jury to make that decision.

00:18:37.680 But we're flying blind.

00:18:38.960 And I think that David has got some really great points.

00:18:41.940 I have wondered for the last 24 hours.

00:18:43.920 I can't tell exactly what they've indicted to Comey for specifically.

00:18:48.200 I know what they've indicted in legal charges, but it's been very difficult to understand what the actual transmission of information is.

00:18:55.180 All right.

00:18:55.700 I'm going to go back to Mike Davis.

00:18:56.680 But first, I just want to just say this again for the audience.

00:18:59.640 He told Ted Cruz that he never authorized anyone at the FBI to be an anonymous source on news reports about the Trump investigation or the Hillary investigation.

00:19:12.520 He did affirm that he said, I'm giving you the same testimony today that I gave in May of 17.

00:19:19.260 My testimony is the same today as it was in May of 17.

00:19:24.080 Never authorized someone at the FBI to be an anonymous source on news reports about the Trump investigation or the Hillary investigation.

00:19:32.520 I just want to take one quick look at the original the original testimony.

00:19:39.340 I think we have this to Senator Grassley in 17 that, again, he affirmed in 2020.

00:19:45.860 It's SOT 3.

00:19:47.940 Director Comey, have you ever been an anonymous source in news reports about matters relating to the Trump investigation or the Clinton investigation?

00:19:58.840 Never.

00:20:00.280 Have you ever authorized someone else at the FBI to be an anonymous source in news reports about the Trump investigation or the Clinton investigation?

00:20:11.000 No.

00:20:12.400 That's clean.

00:20:13.480 Has any classified information relating to President Trump or his associates been declassified and shared with the media?

00:20:25.540 Not to my knowledge.

00:20:26.400 All right.

00:20:28.300 Those first two are very clean, Mike.

00:20:30.640 And he did reaffirm it to Ted Cruz.

00:20:33.340 No, never.

00:20:35.040 I did not leak.

00:20:36.320 I did not authorize anyone to leak.

00:20:38.240 And then with Ted Cruz, he says explicitly, I stand by the testimony that I gave in May of 2017.

00:20:45.820 My testimony is the same today.

00:20:49.280 So to me, that is very clear.

00:20:50.780 He's saying I did not authorize anyone to leak about either of those two subjects.

00:20:54.880 What do you make of what John is saying, Mike, about you got Andy McCabe on the one hand, who's already been deemed the liar in that confrontation, you know, between him and Comey by the inspector general.

00:21:07.260 And then the second one, Baker, which Dave is arguing the only leak we can we appear at this point to be able to pin on Baker is about something not having to do with a Trump or Hillary investigation.

00:21:17.540 Yeah, I mean, I would say this.

00:21:19.760 Those clips you just played, Megan, show that James Comey clearly lied when he testified to my former boss, Chuck Grassley, in 2017.

00:21:29.380 He was under oath.

00:21:30.580 That's perjury.

00:21:31.700 We're beyond the statute of limitations for that one.

00:21:34.840 But in 2020, he lied again under oath to Ted Cruz when he reaffirmed that testimony.

00:21:41.120 And so I would say this about James Comey.

00:21:43.720 He's lucky the grand jury did not indict him for perjury.

00:21:47.460 They indicted him for for false statements and obstruction of a congressional investigation.

00:21:53.080 And so I think it's very clear that he provided false statements under 18 U.S.C.

00:21:59.720 1001.

00:22:01.060 I agree that Dave makes good points.

00:22:04.000 Those are arguments that will be made to the jury.

00:22:07.220 What's the difference between perjury and false statements?

00:22:10.000 False statements don't have to be under oath, but they're very similar crimes.

00:22:18.240 Perjury is when you are under oath.

00:22:21.260 And false statements, it's just false statements to federal law enforcement, to Congress.

00:22:27.220 So they're similar.

00:22:29.440 What can you glean then, Mike, from the fact that they went for the false statements count but not for the perjury count?

00:22:34.260 What do you think the grand jurors are trying to tell us?

00:22:36.760 They probably are in the Dave camp, that they don't think that this is a slam dunk case.

00:22:44.920 And so they indict it for false statements, and they did not indict for perjury.

00:22:51.020 Go ahead, Dave.

00:22:51.660 What is the false statement?

00:22:52.720 I'm just curious.

00:22:53.620 Mike, what is the false statement to you?

00:22:55.380 Like, what I don't gather here is the false statement because when I parse the words, you can say he's playing word games, but I don't see anything that's specifically false in what he said.

00:23:04.820 Which is it?

00:23:06.020 Well, I mean, I think the grand jury indict it because he reaffirmed his 2017 testimony in 2020.

00:23:14.000 And so they –

00:23:14.980 But what was the false testimony back in 2017?

00:23:17.840 That he – I mean, we just played it.

00:23:19.920 It was that he –

00:23:20.480 That he never authorized the leak, any leaks about those two subjects.

00:23:24.600 Yeah.

00:23:25.380 Right.

00:23:25.680 Well, and, you know, my response to that is that, first, he didn't authorize any leak to McCabe.

00:23:32.300 But in the Arctic Hayes investigation, which I think would be the best argument –

00:23:37.360 No one knows what that is.

00:23:38.360 All right.

00:23:38.680 I was about to explain it.

00:23:41.380 The Arctic Hayes investigation is the leak that Comey did, and he acknowledged he did this back in 2017.

00:23:48.880 Right after he was fired, he told his friend who used to work at the FBI, a guy named Daniel Richman, and he's like a law professor at Confidant.

00:23:58.340 He told him to leak one of Comey's memos about Michael Flynn to the New York Times, and he did.

00:24:06.820 That was an authorization.

00:24:09.140 That was a leak.

00:24:10.320 The reason why it's not covered here, the reason why I say it's not a lie, it's because at the time, Daniel Richman did not work for the FBI, and neither did Comey.

00:24:20.660 So that's why I don't think it's a false statement, but that's what I think is the strongest argument for the prosecution here.

00:24:29.240 I don't – but there were – John Solomon, you're an expert on this guy, this Columbia law professor who is a friend of Comey's.

00:24:35.720 You and I have talked about him before.

00:24:37.340 There wasn't just that leak.

00:24:38.800 There were leaks by Comey to Richmond while Richmond was a special government employee for the FBI and was leaking for Comey.

00:24:48.260 That did happen.

00:24:50.560 I'm not sure whether that's what this indictment's based on.

00:24:53.340 We're all shooting guards at a board with a blindfold on.

00:24:56.420 I don't know whether that's true.

00:24:57.620 You take it from here, John, because I know you just did reporting on this.

00:25:00.120 I want to – yeah, listen.

00:25:02.340 Richmond is very clear that he was leaking on behalf of Comey and trying to craft a narrative for Comey prior to Comey leaving the directorship.

00:25:11.180 And then he's unclear – he's unclear as to whether or not he remembers if Comey specifically authorized it or he just did it because he knew that's what Comey wanted.

00:25:21.360 But remember, there's some evidence we don't know about.

00:25:23.680 As I mentioned earlier, I'm told that there are some text messages and emails that will be dispositive as this case goes forward.

00:25:29.440 So I think we have to wait and see what it is.

00:25:30.680 Because I think I'd like to go back – Megan, if you could do it – when Ted Cruz goes back the second time and reaffirms what he just heard from Comey, he broadens the claim.

00:25:41.960 And I think that's something I just want to hear again.

00:25:43.800 Maybe we all should hear.

00:25:44.480 Yeah, let's play it again.

00:25:45.860 He doesn't narrow it to Clinton and Trump anymore.

00:25:48.360 He says if you – I just want to make sure you're saying you never ask anyone to ever leak.

00:25:51.660 Let's see if we can play that because I think he broadens the claim there.

00:25:54.240 Here we go.

00:25:54.860 Sat four.

00:25:55.240 On May 3rd, 2017, in this committee, Chairman Grassley asked you point blank, quote,

00:26:03.760 have you ever been an anonymous source in news reports about matters relating to the Trump investigation or the Clinton investigation?

00:26:10.920 You responded under oath, quote, never.

00:26:14.600 He then asked you, quote, have you ever authorized someone else at the FBI to be an anonymous source in news reports about the Trump investigation or the Clinton administration?

00:26:24.600 You responded again under oath, no.

00:26:27.960 Now, as you know, Mr. McCabe, who works for you, has publicly and repeatedly stated that he leaked information to the Wall Street Journal

00:26:37.060 and that you were directly aware of it and that you directly authorized it.

00:26:42.320 Now, what Mr. McCabe is saying and what you testify to this committee cannot both be true.

00:26:48.940 One or the other is false.

00:26:51.320 Who's telling the truth?

00:26:52.200 I can only speak to my testimony.

00:26:55.620 I stand by what the testimony you summarized that I gave in May of 2017.

00:27:00.280 So your testimony is you've never authorized anyone to leak.

00:27:03.800 And Mr. McCabe, if he says contrary, is not telling the truth.

00:27:07.120 Is that correct?

00:27:08.220 Again, I'm not going to characterize Andy's testimony, but mine is the same today.

00:27:13.740 That's the piece you're talking about.

00:27:15.440 Yeah, he drops out Clinton and Trump at that point.

00:27:17.520 Now, again, listen, I think we're splitting hairs when we're getting this, and I'm not sure a grand jury would have tolerated that level of splitting hairs.

00:27:23.120 But I did notice that in the follow-up question.

00:27:25.500 And it's very interesting that the indictment makes no reference to 2017 testimony.

00:27:31.520 It's not trying to tie back to 2017.

00:27:33.540 So it'll be very interesting to see if that change of words, that flip from Cruz, is part of it.

00:27:39.500 I suspect there's some evidence we don't know about.

00:27:41.800 When we got that timeline that I told you about, Megan, there are massive amounts of that timeline that are still blacked out.

00:27:47.680 They're redacted because they're covered by grand jury information.

00:27:50.360 I suspect there's some additional evidence we don't know yet, not yet know about.

00:27:54.840 And that's why I'm eager to see the next version of the indictment, because it needs a little bit more meat on the bones for us to have a really informed debate.

00:28:01.340 Yeah.

00:28:01.960 Okay.

00:28:02.220 So the way things stand now are he's been indicted by this new acting U.S. attorney for the Eastern District of Virginia, clearly brought there because the federal district in Washington, D.C. would be a complete waste of time.

00:28:19.200 There's no way they're going to do anything fair for any Trump administration.

00:28:22.440 There's another reason, though, Megan.

00:28:23.600 There's another reason.

00:28:25.220 Well, I know Comey was there when he gave the testimony, I think, right?

00:28:27.740 Yeah.

00:28:28.120 But that's the jurisdiction, yeah.

00:28:29.380 That's right.

00:28:29.740 That's where the crime...

00:28:30.520 I don't think that's the reason.

00:28:31.700 I don't think that's the reason.

00:28:32.880 I think that's the hook that they had.

00:28:34.800 Yeah, that is right.

00:28:35.500 That's right.

00:28:35.780 That's right.

00:28:36.240 No, there's nothing improper about bringing it there.

00:28:38.000 I'm just explaining why it was there instead of in D.C. where Congress is.

00:28:41.980 So they brought the charges saying Comey lied when he said he never authorized somebody to leak.

00:28:47.260 That's what this case is about.

00:28:48.420 He lied when he said he never authorized anyone to leak.

00:28:52.480 And it depends on whether it's limited.

00:28:54.940 John's suggesting maybe it's him answering the Ted Cruz wider question where he said,

00:29:01.240 so your testimony is you've never authorized anyone to leak.

00:29:06.500 Was he saying, that's my testimony?

00:29:09.320 And so you've got, it goes beyond the Clinton and the Trump investigation?

00:29:13.720 Or is it limited to Clinton and Trump and they have proof of it in some text or other form that he did so authorize?

00:29:19.680 Okay, so now we're, you know, Bob's your uncle.

00:29:22.360 We're off on the merits about whether he did that or he didn't and he's going to get his day in court.

00:29:26.760 However, before we get there, we are going to get a selective or malicious prosecution defense, Mike Davis.

00:29:34.900 And that is something that is raised with the judge on the papers.

00:29:39.880 The jury doesn't decide that.

00:29:41.320 The judge looks at the facts.

00:29:43.420 And this guy who's been appointed, well, not appointed, but he pulled the case.

00:29:46.740 Um, judge Michael Notchmanoff is an interesting judge career, basically as a federal defender, a federal criminal defender.

00:29:59.120 So he's not a prosecutor.

00:30:00.460 That's fine.

00:30:00.960 He was appointed by Biden in 21.

00:30:03.340 That's them's the breaks.

00:30:04.720 We have, uh, we have lawyers and we have judges from both, uh, Republican and Democrat appointees.

00:30:09.520 Now, somebody we follow on X here on this show, uh, William Shipley, he has very smart legal analysis.

00:30:17.140 And he said the following of all the Biden appointees in the Eastern district of Virginia,

00:30:21.960 judge Notchmanoff is probably the best potential draw.

00:30:24.980 He means for Trump.

00:30:26.500 He does not have a background that suggests progressive activism as is true of many Biden appointed district

00:30:34.500 judges, particularly those he writes in the last two years of his administration.

00:30:38.080 Notchmanoff, his entire career in private practice was in federal criminal defense work.

00:30:42.980 That's not the same kind of bubbling cauldron of social justice warrior that you find in public interest law firms on the radical left.

00:30:49.840 He says, um, this is generally not the profile of an activist progressive judge.

00:30:55.900 This is just a trial attorney attracted to criminal defense work.

00:31:01.100 What, what is your take on this draw and who it helps?

00:31:06.340 I mean, I think Bill Shipley, he's a friend, he's a very smart guy.

00:31:11.000 I will say this.

00:31:12.180 You had two Democrat senators in Virginia.

00:31:15.960 So you're not going to have a blue slip problem where the home state senators, there wasn't a Republican home state senator that would have made them pick a more moderate pick.

00:31:25.300 There are a lot of potential picks for the Eastern District of Virginia.

00:31:29.080 It's a very coveted judgeship.

00:31:31.660 And I seriously doubt that the Biden White House put someone who's just going to call balls and strikes in the Eastern District of Virginia because they didn't do it anywhere else where they where they could have put in a radical.

00:31:45.700 They always did.

00:31:47.200 So, Dave, this argument and to be honest with you, I don't totally understand the difference between malicious prosecution and selective prosecution.

00:31:55.160 And are those both defenses that can be raised?

00:31:57.240 And also, can you please talk about how they're going to argue that?

00:32:02.040 Yes, they're going to use the president's words against him.

00:32:04.680 And that's where the social media posts will hurt him.

00:32:06.720 And I don't know if that was meant to be a direct message directly to Attorney General Bondi or broadcast to everyone, but he then deleted it.

00:32:14.660 And the fact that he fired Eric Siebert, who was a respected conservative acting U.S. attorney in that district because he refused to prosecute James Comey and replaced him with someone who had never prosecuted a case before and had to go in herself to do it.

00:32:29.380 Was it Comey or was it Letitia James that he was he was dragging his feet on?

00:32:32.860 He was mad at both.

00:32:34.500 But by the way, I assume that our friend Mike Davis would be friends with him because Mike is friends with every conservative lawyer in the country.

00:32:41.120 So I assume, you know, Eric Siebert.

00:32:44.460 And he seems like a very nice guy.

00:32:49.600 He seems like a very typical Washington, D.C. Republican.

00:32:54.340 I would say maybe the Democrats in Virginia, the two Democrats senators in Virginia who agreed to his nomination would be very pleased with a Republican like Siebert.

00:33:09.220 It is tricky. It is tricky. And what's Mike saying?

00:33:13.240 And I get it is, as you know, Dave, within the Republican Party, you've got the ones who are MAGA and then you've got the more old school, more establishment types.

00:33:21.640 And to get through as the U.S.

00:33:25.500 Attorney approved by the two Democrat senators from Virginia, you'd probably do better if you were the more establishment type and not a MAGA acolyte.

00:33:35.700 So that's I mean what he seems to be saying.

00:33:37.640 Can I just can I just can I just say this very fast, Dave?

00:33:41.360 I I would not get a blue slip from any Democrat in America.

00:33:45.200 I probably wouldn't get a blue slip from any Republican in America.

00:33:49.100 But Siebert Siebert would get a blue Siebert would probably get a blue slip from any Democrat in America.

00:33:55.300 So I thought a blue slip is when you're rejected.

00:33:57.640 I thought that's like a black ball is a blue slip.

00:33:59.720 No, no, green light.

00:34:01.380 Return that they when when the senators return these stupid blue slips, then you can get that.

00:34:06.820 It's 100 year old tradition of the Senate where the home state senators have an absolute veto over U.S.

00:34:13.320 attorney, U.S.

00:34:14.320 marshal and district court judge.

00:34:15.780 And so, OK, but when I move to Florida or when Dave moves to Connecticut and we become the two state senators or U.S.

00:34:23.080 senators from the state, we would definitely blue slip you, Mike Davis.

00:34:26.100 We would you would sail through no matter what partisan stripes we have.

00:34:30.500 All right.

00:34:30.680 Keep going, Dave.

00:34:32.060 Yes.

00:34:32.500 Well, so when it comes to vindictive prosecution, that's what they're going to rely on.

00:34:36.040 And they're going to use the president's words here rather than the prosecutor's words.

00:34:40.380 Oh, they'll show that the U.S.

00:34:42.340 attorney, the acting U.S.

00:34:43.360 attorney was someone who was appointed for this purpose.

00:34:46.340 And within days later, she went into court herself.

00:34:49.940 She didn't even use any of her career prosecutors, perhaps because they didn't want to do it. 0.99

00:34:54.640 And she got the indictment herself.

00:34:57.180 So when you prove a vindictive prosecution claim, the burdens on the defense,

00:35:01.380 and they have to make a prima facie showing, you got to show enough evidence.

00:35:05.360 And then it shifts.

00:35:07.100 The burden shifts to the prosecution to show that they had some sort of legitimate, non-vindictive

00:35:13.120 reason for the charge.

00:35:14.840 So it's tough to prove.

00:35:16.260 But I think if there's a I think this is a legitimate case because the president's words

00:35:20.000 will be used against him.

00:35:20.980 That's why he deleted them shortly thereafter.

00:35:23.020 I'll read the post that you're referring to.

00:35:27.340 I will say this before I forget on malicious prosecution.

00:35:32.480 Typically, it is raised as a defense when like the classic example is a defendant

00:35:37.780 asserts his right to a speedy trial or won't won't cop a plea and insists on a trial, which

00:35:48.920 is a pain in the ass for the prosecutor. 0.85

00:35:50.640 And then the prosecutor ups the ante.

00:35:53.260 Like now we're going for the death penalty.

00:35:55.640 That that would be your classic malicious prosecution claim where the judge says, no, no,

00:36:00.960 you can't punish a guy for exercising his constitutional rights like this.

00:36:05.960 This is different.

00:36:06.980 You know, this is like you've only brought the case because you're mad at me for, you

00:36:13.940 know, doing bad things to your people.

00:36:16.700 And my favorite in the past, you know, whatever it's been, 12, 14 hours since this news broke.

00:36:21.440 My favorite post, once again, it's almost true every day.

00:36:25.060 Stephen L. Miller, not the Stephen Miller.

00:36:27.100 This is a different guy.

00:36:27.880 Goes by Red Steez on X.

00:36:29.900 Keeps posting when everybody says this is retribution.

00:36:32.640 This is retribution.

00:36:33.500 This is retribution.

00:36:34.320 He keeps posting for what?

00:36:37.640 For what?

00:36:38.680 It's exactly right.

00:36:39.680 For what was done to Trump, for malicious prosecution that was done to Trump and all

00:36:44.120 of his staff.

00:36:44.960 It's like, yes, that's probably exactly how we got here.

00:36:48.420 I mean, everybody knows that's what we're doing here.

00:36:51.060 The only question is whether it's still appropriate because there's a good faith basis that he actually

00:36:55.980 did commit a crime and now he's going to have to feel the punishment of it.

00:36:58.640 But like, I don't think most of us think we'd be here if they hadn't done this to Mike Flynn

00:37:03.860 and they hadn't done this to Steve Bannon.

00:37:05.540 They hadn't gone after Peter Navarro.

00:37:06.980 And they hadn't gone after Roger Stone.

00:37:08.340 And they hadn't gone after Donald Trump four times.

00:37:10.540 Of course, that was the motivation.

00:37:12.640 Retribution for what?

00:37:14.200 Fill in the blank, New York Times.

00:37:16.120 Here is the post that could prove problematic if they do raise malicious prosecution.

00:37:23.480 And this happened just a couple of days ago.

00:37:25.940 9-20-25 is the date.

00:37:27.780 Pam.

00:37:29.920 And there is speculation.

00:37:30.780 We actually never figured.

00:37:31.860 Trump almost never deletes his true social posts.

00:37:34.920 This one was posted to people's that that reads more like a direct message than a classic

00:37:39.060 Trump post.

00:37:39.780 And then he took it down, which only fueled that fire more.

00:37:44.620 Here's what he writes.

00:37:45.520 Pam, colon.

00:37:46.760 Like, it's a message to her.

00:37:49.440 I've reviewed over 30 statements and posts saying that essentially, same old story as

00:37:53.600 last time, all talk, no action.

00:37:55.520 Nothing is being done.

00:37:56.920 What about Comey?

00:37:58.020 Adam Shifty Schiff?

00:37:59.560 Letitia? 0.94

00:38:00.720 It's very funny if it's a direct message that he even calls him Shifty Schiff in his DMs.

00:38:04.900 It's not that it's not just for show.

00:38:06.660 Oh, they're all guilty as hell, but nothing's going to be done.

00:38:11.340 Then we almost put in a Democrat-supported U.S. attorney in Virginia with a really bad

00:38:15.820 Republican past, a woke rhino who was never going to do his job. 0.74

00:38:20.000 That's why two of the worst Dem senators pushed him so hard.

00:38:23.880 You were talking about Siebert here, the guy who either was fired or withdrew this week

00:38:29.420 or Friday.

00:38:30.740 He even lied to the media and said he quit and that we had no case.

00:38:35.020 No, I fired him.

00:38:36.040 And there is a great case, and many lawyers and legal pundits say so.

00:38:40.120 Lindsey Halligan is a really good lawyer and likes you a lot.

00:38:43.940 We can't delay any longer.

00:38:45.100 It's killing our reputation and credibility.

00:38:47.280 They impeached me twice and indicted me five times over nothing.

00:38:51.800 Justice must be served now.

00:38:53.820 President DJT, which is also funny if it's a direct message to her, you have to laugh.

00:39:00.600 Okay, so Lindsey Halligan is 36 years old, seems like a very nice lady, but in no world would 0.98

00:39:09.820 normally be getting appointed as the U.S. attorney for the Eastern District of Virginia.

00:39:15.960 Speaking of ozempic-infested documents, that's what her resume is when it comes to the qualifications 0.98

00:39:25.460 for this particular job.

00:39:26.760 With all due respect, I'm sure she's a good lawyer.

00:39:28.580 She worked for President Trump personally.

00:39:30.100 That's how he knows her.

00:39:31.100 But I'm just going to say, this person's elevation to this level of a post is kind of laughable.

00:39:37.620 It never would happen under normal circumstances.

00:39:39.700 I believe she was put there because she's loyal to Trump and she's probably a decent lawyer.

00:39:43.560 But she has no criminal law experience and zero experience as a prosecutor.

00:39:49.980 Zero.

00:39:50.520 So it's kind of shocking.

00:39:51.760 I think we know why she's there.

00:39:54.320 He didn't delete it.

00:39:56.320 He deleted it and then he reposted it.

00:39:58.500 That's what he did.

00:39:59.200 I'm pretty sure that's what happened.

00:40:01.420 Okay.

00:40:02.960 He added her last name, Halligan, and he added some other stuff.

00:40:06.860 Okay.

00:40:07.280 So then he added more to it, which I'm not going to read because you guys get the general

00:40:11.820 gist.

00:40:12.300 So that's the evidence, Mike, that this was malicious prosecution.

00:40:17.300 And I have to just say this before you answer how they're going to argue that it's not.

00:40:23.060 The media is having a meltdown over the fact that Trump has been very vocal about wanting

00:40:27.480 this indictment, which he has.

00:40:29.200 Even if he took this, whatever, without this tweet, he's been very vocal about wanting James

00:40:34.200 Comey indicted.

00:40:35.360 And they're horrified by this.

00:40:37.460 And they really think it's obvious that it was under White House pressure.

00:40:41.460 And maybe it was.

00:40:42.640 And 100 percent, so were the Trump indictments.

00:40:46.160 Like, I just have absolutely no tolerance for this argument.

00:40:50.580 Last night, they actually, to their credit, did talk about the fact that there was Biden

00:40:59.140 pressure to indict Trump.

00:41:00.760 But then they tried to draw a distinction that that was private behind closed doors, that

00:41:07.540 he wasn't public about it, which is a distinction without any difference.

00:41:11.400 That makes no difference legally.

00:41:13.540 The president in both cases made very clear to his DOJ he wanted an indictment.

00:41:19.800 That's what happened to Trump.

00:41:21.460 And that appears to be what happened here.

00:41:23.560 So your thoughts on that?

00:41:24.500 I would just say that the Trump Justice Department should just go back and use the Biden Justice

00:41:31.880 Department's legal arguments that Jack Smith made when Trump made these same arguments about

00:41:39.340 malicious prosecution.

00:41:40.820 And so that's exactly what the Biden Justice Department did.

00:41:46.020 And, you know, was there a political motivation here?

00:41:49.100 Probably.

00:41:49.580 But you know what?

00:41:50.940 I would say this to these people.

00:41:52.840 You ran unprecedented republic-ending lawfare against President Trump, his top aides, his

00:42:00.420 allies, his supporters, parents, Christians.

00:42:04.240 I'm going to use the same damn arguments that they threw at me, which was, well, a grand jury

00:42:08.960 indicted here.

00:42:09.740 So it's obviously legitimate because the grand jury indicted here.

00:42:13.620 So, look, revenge is best served cold.

00:42:15.940 I think that if this is, I want these prosecutions and I'm malicious about it.

00:42:25.940 So does that make it a malicious prosecution?

00:42:28.680 Maybe, but I don't give a damn.

00:42:31.080 I love your honesty.

00:42:32.780 Let me just show you.

00:42:33.280 You know, one of the things.

00:42:34.520 Yeah, go ahead, John.

00:42:35.120 Megan, real quickly.

00:42:35.940 One of the things that will come up in the malicious prosecution arguments, the judge will

00:42:40.940 inquire what the grand jury knew.

00:42:43.300 And one of the ways that prosecutors sometimes insulate a malicious prosecution claim is,

00:42:47.760 hey, listen, we want you to know the president's out there saying that he doesn't like James

00:42:51.500 Comey.

00:42:51.860 And James Comey has been clear he doesn't like the president.

00:42:54.040 It's not about this.

00:42:55.180 And so if they bring that before the grand jury or if the grand jury raises that question

00:42:59.460 themselves before they bring the bill of indictment, a lot of times the judge will

00:43:03.100 look at it and say, listen, there was an informed decision by a grand jury.

00:43:06.580 They kind of knew what Trump did and they were OK with it because they made it on other

00:43:10.040 circumstances.

00:43:10.640 So that'll be something when this case gets into the nitty gritty that will be evaluated

00:43:14.740 by the trial judge.

00:43:16.000 I also think even if they don't have this prosecutor raising that with the grand jurors,

00:43:21.500 the team Trump's got an argument like, hello, it was everywhere.

00:43:25.960 Trump, again, it's not just down to this one post on True Social.

00:43:29.300 Trump's been making really clear in front of cameras and elsewhere for a long time.

00:43:33.960 He hates James Comey and would love to see him indicted.

00:43:38.760 It was not a mystery, which I would submit to you guys is better than what Joe Biden did,

00:43:45.540 which was while on camera trying to act like a good guy who would never interfere with his

00:43:50.060 DOJ, but then clearly interfering with his DOJ behind the scenes.

00:43:55.020 There is an April 2022 New York Times article that bust that wide open, talked about how behind

00:44:00.860 the scenes he was leaning on Merrick Garland.

00:44:02.700 He was pissed it was taking so long.

00:44:04.540 Keep in mind, the Trump indictments did not start until 2023.

00:44:07.640 This is before he'd been indicted anywhere, saying, what's taking so long?

00:44:12.300 Hurry it up.

00:44:13.300 We need to see indictments.

00:44:15.640 He was he wanted him in jail and there was a very good argument.

00:44:18.540 He wanted him in jail to stop him from winning the presidency again.

00:44:21.500 I mean, I talk about malicious.

00:44:23.840 Here's a sampling of how Biden and the Democrats sounded back then.

00:44:28.200 Okay, pressuring the Department of Justice to go after Trump, Sot 13.

00:44:33.400 The New York Times reports President Biden privately told his inner circle that former

00:44:37.940 President Trump should be prosecuted.

00:44:40.480 Garland's deliberative approach is even frustrating President Biden himself.

00:44:44.700 President Biden confided to his inner circle that he believed former President Trump was

00:44:49.460 a threat to democracy and should be prosecuted.

00:44:52.320 I also have been somewhat frustrated at the pace that DOJ has gone.

00:44:56.920 This isn't complicated.

00:44:59.060 It is ridiculous how long this is taking.

00:45:02.320 And I think the justice delayed is justice denied.

00:45:05.820 We campaigned for four years saying we were going to be the party that upholds the rule

00:45:09.660 of law that's going to have an independent Justice Department. 1.00

00:45:12.380 So far, Merrick Garland is failing the United States of America.

00:45:15.420 How many crimes does somebody have to commit to get prosecuted in this country, at least

00:45:22.640 get investigated by the Department of Justice?

00:45:24.980 The Attorney General and the Department of Justice have failed this badly.

00:45:29.060 Will this new reporting perhaps nudge him a little bit?

00:45:32.560 President Biden is right.

00:45:34.740 What is Merrick Garland waiting for?

00:45:37.120 This is his job.

00:45:38.200 And he's not getting the urgency of the moment.

00:45:42.680 There was universal pressure on Merrick Garland to go after Donald Trump.

00:45:49.760 And when Alvin Bragg was the first to go and brought this ridiculous indictment against

00:45:54.840 Donald Trump, which was unlike anybody any lawyer had ever seen and they couldn't figure

00:45:58.600 it out.

00:45:58.940 There were lengthy segments on TV just like we're having now.

00:46:01.120 Like, what does it mean?

00:46:02.340 What is he doing?

00:46:03.340 Only that one had about 40 legal hoops that you had to jump through in order to understand

00:46:06.920 the crime, where they took misdemeanors and inflated them into felonies and they resurrected

00:46:11.480 dead claims under the statute of limitations.

00:46:13.920 And then we didn't understand exactly what Trump had done anyway.

00:46:16.200 Like he put in his books payment to lawyer for a payment to his lawyer.

00:46:20.400 But he was expected really to just say in order to pay off porn star or it's a crime.

00:46:25.420 Like all of us were so confused.

00:46:27.280 It was way more confusing than what we're dealing with here, which is just, OK, he lied under

00:46:31.700 oath about not authorizing somebody to leak.

00:46:34.280 And we just don't know what the leaks were.

00:46:35.800 Um, they were all in favor of it.

00:46:38.380 They cheered him.

00:46:39.240 They celebrated Alvin Bragg.

00:46:40.820 Oh, my God.

00:46:41.580 Where was it?

00:46:42.440 My team sent it to me.

00:46:44.280 The, um, the, the Lawrence O'Donnell reaction.

00:46:47.880 It was unbelievable.

00:46:48.760 He, what did he call him?

00:46:50.140 He was like, Alvin.

00:46:51.700 Oh, he talks about how the crimson.

00:46:54.640 Where is it?

00:46:55.500 Where is the AM update?

00:46:56.780 Deb?

00:46:57.000 Oh, my God.

00:46:57.660 I'm falling apart out here.

00:46:58.800 I have so much paper.

00:47:00.220 I can't do it.

00:47:02.360 Is this it?

00:47:03.080 In any event, he was talking about how the Harvard crimson was celebrating Alvin Bragg

00:47:08.540 is like the next coming.

00:47:10.420 And he really was starting to believe it.

00:47:11.860 That's my point.

00:47:12.580 OK, so this is I can't handle the absolute hypocrisy and the defense.

00:47:17.940 Lawrence O'Donnell.

00:47:18.600 Now, now, the phrase trumped up charges has new meaning.

00:47:23.460 Then, when Alvin Bragg graduated from Harvard College, the Harvard crimson ran a profile of

00:47:29.480 him.

00:47:30.040 The title of that profile was The Anointed One.

00:47:37.860 Come on, Dave.

00:47:39.620 Are you going to defend that?

00:47:41.440 I was in college with him.

00:47:42.980 I knew him in college.

00:47:43.880 Not well.

00:47:44.520 Is that how you saw him?

00:47:45.780 Is that how you saw him?

00:47:46.820 Did you do a little genuflection as you walked by?

00:47:49.540 Yeah, occasionally.

00:47:50.940 No, no.

00:47:52.400 Yeah.

00:47:53.020 You know, Megan, you're clearly playing to your strength here in focusing on the Alvin

00:47:56.800 Bragg New York prosecution because you should never run for office and say, I'm going to

00:48:00.780 go after that guy like Letitia James or Alvin Bragg did. 0.99

00:48:03.320 I will push back, though, about Merrick Garland, who is known for his timidity more than anything

00:48:07.920 on my side of the aisle, who was so scared to go after Trump that he appointed a special

00:48:12.380 prosecutor so he didn't have to do it.

00:48:14.100 And also who refused to prosecute Matt Gaetz when the evidence was there and the investigation

00:48:18.700 was started under Bill Barr and who prosecuted Joe Biden's son.

00:48:23.160 Let's see if if the just department does that.

00:48:26.280 He was dragged into that kicking and screaming, Mike Davis.

00:48:30.940 I would I would I would say this.

00:48:33.060 I want to remind everyone, Joe Biden's fingerprints are on all four criminal indictments of President

00:48:39.960 Trump.

00:48:40.360 It was it was Jonathan Suh, Biden's deputy White House counsel, who waived Trump's claim

00:48:46.480 of executive privilege on behalf of Joe Biden that led to the Jack Smith two indictments.

00:48:51.280 It was Matthew Colangelo that deployed from a senior Biden Justice Department political

00:48:56.840 appointment to go work with Alvin Bragg.

00:48:59.060 And it was Nathan Wade, Fannie Willis's dumb, unqualified boyfriends who built six to 16

00:49:05.380 hours of his time, two hundred and fifty dollars an hour, four thousand dollars for his two

00:49:09.960 meetings with the Biden White House and the White House counsel before they indicted Trump

00:49:14.440 down in Georgia.

00:49:15.120 So before we go, quickly, Mike, what is likely to happen in this case?

00:49:22.020 You never know.

00:49:23.100 You have a Biden judge.

00:49:24.200 You have an Eastern District of Virginia jury filled with Democrats.

00:49:27.380 It's it's going to be a tough case.

00:49:29.640 Go ahead, Dave.

00:49:31.280 I think you'll be thrown out as vindictive prosecution and won't even get to a jury.

00:49:36.940 OK, and final thoughts from you, John.

00:49:39.200 I think we're going to get some more evidence that we don't know about that's going to change

00:49:42.500 this conversation.

00:49:44.000 Oh, and by the way, I heard you say on Hannity last night, you also are predicting more

00:49:47.720 indictments.

00:49:49.300 Yeah, they're working on other indictments.

00:49:50.900 There's over 150 subpoena requests pending at U.S.

00:49:53.520 attorney's offices around the country.

00:49:54.900 So there's a lot more investigation going on in this weaponization space and is visible

00:49:59.280 right now.

00:50:00.520 Any bets on who's next?

00:50:02.740 No, I would never bet on that.

00:50:04.080 I thought O.J. was going to get convicted.

00:50:05.620 So I've stopped betting after that.

00:50:07.360 How about you, Mike?

00:50:08.620 Do you have any?

00:50:09.600 Do you also predict more indictments are coming?

00:50:12.200 I would I would say down in Dave's backyard in the Southern District of Florida, look for

00:50:17.720 a look for an investigation on the entire Crossfire Hurricane conspiracy going back to 2016.

00:50:25.680 And it can and continues to this day.

00:50:28.600 The grand conspiracy case because there would be a better jury down there and you can go

00:50:34.560 back as far as the raid and before in order to get more people.

00:50:39.500 And Mike Davis, any predictions on what names might possibly be under consideration?

00:50:43.160 I would look at all of them, Obama, Biden, Hillary, Comey, Clapper, Brennan, all of them

00:50:50.720 and all the all the prosecutions against Trump, Tish, Fannie, Bragg, Jack Smith, Brat, all

00:50:58.600 of them.

00:50:59.180 I would just make sure that all three of your Zooms are working because we're going to be

00:51:02.400 seeing a lot of you.

00:51:04.100 Thanks, guys.

00:51:05.120 Maureen Callahan is next.

00:51:05.880 Thank you, Megan.

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00:52:27.140 We absolutely have to keep talking.

00:52:31.820 It's more important now than ever.

00:52:33.800 To cower, to hide, to go silent is not the answer.

00:52:38.420 And all I can tell you is there is no fucking way I am canceling one stop on this tour.

00:52:43.920 Not one stop.

00:52:47.940 I'm going.

00:52:48.880 I'm going to stand on these stages and I'm going to say all the things that we say all the time on this show.

00:52:54.840 We're going to make it safe for me.

00:52:55.800 We're going to make it safe for my team and my guests and you.

00:52:58.720 We're going coast to coast and do something really important, which is say what's true and what's real.

00:53:04.880 To honor him.

00:53:07.560 I really now more than ever would love to see you all face to face.

00:53:11.380 God, I would love to see you face to face.

00:53:14.420 I need to see you face to face.

00:53:17.140 I am doing this tour and I would love for you to join me.

00:53:21.160 MeganKelley.com for the tickets.

00:53:26.320 Welcome back to the Megan Kelly Show.

00:53:28.060 I've been so looking forward to this.

00:53:30.580 Yes, it's Friday and we're going into the weekend and we need some lighter stuff.

00:53:35.040 It's been a very heavy couple of weeks of news.

00:53:38.420 Okay, but before we go to the place I've been wanting to go,

00:53:41.880 I want to tell you about some updates on the Megan Kelly live tour.

00:53:45.580 We've been adding some new people to our live shows that start next month.

00:53:49.800 We kick it off next month.

00:53:50.680 I had such a fun conversation with Charlie Sheen a couple of weeks ago.

00:53:54.520 Now we're going to get to do it in person.

00:53:56.840 He's going to be joining me in Bakersfield, California on November 20th.

00:54:02.440 Very excited about that.

00:54:03.980 We've also added a new guest to Sugar Land, Texas, just outside of Houston.

00:54:07.780 Our first stop on the tour on October 23rd.

00:54:10.440 That's Jesse Kelly.

00:54:11.540 He's going to be there along with Donald Trump Jr.

00:54:14.800 We love Jesse.

00:54:16.100 He tells it like it is.

00:54:18.100 We announced the other day that Erica Kirk will be joining us in Glendale, Arizona.

00:54:23.900 All of these tickets are available for you at megankelly.com.

00:54:28.380 Go there now to buy tickets to all 10 stops.

00:54:30.660 And if you want to do the VIP meet and greet with me and the guests of the night,

00:54:35.520 then there's a special little box you can check.

00:54:38.680 So check it out.

00:54:39.680 And now someone else who's coming on the tour, Maureen Callahan.

00:54:43.560 She's host of The Nerve with Maureen Callahan.

00:54:45.780 You can find it on YouTube, The Nerve Show, on all podcast platforms.

00:54:49.980 Go to thenerveshow.com to subscribe.

00:54:52.100 Great to have you, my friend.

00:54:54.280 It's great to be back with you, Megan.

00:54:55.840 Oh, my God.

00:54:56.220 You look amazing.

00:54:57.160 The show's doing amazing.

00:54:58.560 Oh, thank you.

00:54:59.340 Yeah, we're having so much fun.

00:55:00.900 I know.

00:55:01.460 I can tell.

00:55:02.420 And I have fun listening to it.

00:55:03.680 And I love doing you on Fridays because it gives me, like, I'll go back and listen to

00:55:07.460 this interview in my downtime.

00:55:09.860 So now I have like lots of you to listen to.

00:55:11.540 It's awesome.

00:55:12.040 Well, there's never enough of you.

00:55:13.700 So I'm very, very happy to see you and see you looking so happy.

00:55:17.000 Thank you.

00:55:17.280 And let me tell you, so many people knew you were coming because they gave us a manna

00:55:20.460 from heaven in these, like, subjects that we're going to go over.

00:55:23.360 It's an embarrassment of riches.

00:55:25.260 It's like, it's great because, like, the nerve has been down this week.

00:55:28.220 We've been off.

00:55:29.080 But, like, now I really get to get my aggression out, you know?

00:55:32.360 It's been building up.

00:55:33.400 So, yeah.

00:55:34.080 Well, that's the perfect place to kick it off is Kamala Harris. 1.00

00:55:36.780 Although we were saying before we got started, I think we're too hard on her.

00:55:40.220 She's the gift that keeps on giving.

00:55:41.500 Like, it's almost like she cares about us the way she keeps offering these little ditties.

00:55:46.260 It's impeccable timing.

00:55:48.300 It's much needed comic relief.

00:55:49.900 She doesn't know it's comic relief, which kind of makes it even funnier, I think.

00:55:53.920 I guess it's less benevolent than I'm giving her credit for.

00:55:56.340 But here she is.

00:55:57.820 I don't really know who this was.

00:56:00.740 My team says it's Scott Evans and a YouTube show that she sat down with.

00:56:04.440 She's promoting her book, which I understand you're reading.

00:56:08.800 I just started.

00:56:10.180 It's fourth grade reading level, yet very, very rough going.

00:56:15.180 Oh, my gosh.

00:56:15.700 Are you having trouble sleeping or something?

00:56:17.400 Why would you be reading the Kamala Harris book?

00:56:20.260 It's a rubbernecking thing.

00:56:22.080 I don't rubberneck on the road, but I will culturally rubberneck. 0.81

00:56:26.200 And I'm really interested.

00:56:27.880 Like, the beginning of the book is, like, getting the call.

00:56:32.320 And it's the fake version of the call.

00:56:34.700 It's not the, like, I started scrambling and whipping people up to my side

00:56:39.100 so I could avoid a primary because there's no other way I'm getting this thing.

00:56:42.240 Oh, Joe's dropping out?

00:56:43.720 No idea that was going to happen.

00:56:45.560 The shock.

00:56:46.540 We're just making pancakes, you know?

00:56:48.480 Right, like I do.

00:56:49.660 Yeah.

00:56:50.160 Oh, I have to tell you, when you open the book, the inside art is this very not-at-all staged

00:56:58.340 photo of Kamala.

00:57:00.100 It's, like, a recreation, I believe, of her that morning in the call because she describes

00:57:04.720 herself wearing, like, her Howard University sweatshirt and just hanging out.

00:57:09.860 And she's, like, this, you know?

00:57:11.200 And it's, like, my soul raw.

00:57:13.040 Yeah, exactly.

00:57:14.480 So it sets the tone nicely that you're not at all getting artifice in this book.

00:57:19.500 No, no, it's all raw.

00:57:20.220 Real deal.

00:57:20.700 Well, so she sits down with this guy, and she recalls the fondness of her rallies where

00:57:27.940 everyone loved her.

00:57:29.460 You can see she's actually missing it when people paid attention to her and she felt relevant

00:57:33.200 for once.

00:57:34.140 And just classic Kamala here.

00:57:37.060 Take a listen.

00:57:37.900 Stop 25.

00:57:39.520 Somebody would want me to take a picture at a hug bear child.

00:57:43.660 And someone in the back would hand that baby over through the crowd. 0.97

00:57:52.040 Up to you.

00:57:52.780 Of people who would hold and care, but pass the baby.

00:57:57.340 See?

00:57:59.300 And then pass the baby back. 0.95

00:58:00.660 Pass the baby back. 0.92

00:58:02.480 And I don't know, there was something about that when it would happen.

00:58:06.920 I mean, I could get very emotional about it right now.

00:58:09.600 But, you know, I believe that we should always feel that, you know, the children of the community

00:58:16.720 are the children of the community.

00:58:18.640 Yeah, yeah.

00:58:19.100 Of all of us.

00:58:20.780 Our next leaders, our next thinkers, our next church.

00:58:22.940 Sure.

00:58:23.700 Sure they are.

00:58:25.300 Participate in caring about that child.

00:58:27.520 Yeah.

00:58:28.340 And in caring for that child.

00:58:30.460 Yeah.

00:58:31.080 And there was just something about that.

00:58:33.220 And seeing the baby travel from the parents.

00:58:35.240 Yes, and the parents trusted the stranger that was next to them.

00:58:39.200 Who trusted the next person.

00:58:41.080 And all of them as though it was their own child.

00:58:43.740 Yeah.

00:58:44.380 There was something so magical in many ways about that.

00:58:49.540 And about affirming.

00:58:51.020 Yeah.

00:58:51.180 About you can create an environment where people feel safe.

00:58:56.560 And feel a sense of communal responsibility and community.

00:59:01.800 Yeah.

00:59:02.960 She says nothing.

00:59:04.900 Communal responsibility and community.

00:59:07.860 And the baby, Maureen.

00:59:09.380 The baby.

00:59:10.120 And how about that guy deserves an Oscar for it.

00:59:12.480 Okay.

00:59:12.620 I recognize that guy.

00:59:14.000 He's an offender.

00:59:15.420 He seems nice enough, but he is an Access Hollywood host.

00:59:18.720 Oh, okay.

00:59:19.440 Okay.

00:59:19.620 So we're infotainment.

00:59:21.040 We're not.

00:59:21.420 That makes more.

00:59:22.140 Yeah.

00:59:22.300 Because he was giving it to her like, yeah, this is so interesting.

00:59:24.820 He was really.

00:59:25.360 Babies.

00:59:25.720 So I'm picturing we're at Bagram Air Force Base.

00:59:30.460 We're withdrawing from Afghanistan. 0.65

00:59:32.300 And, you know, those desperate Afghans were like the babies over the barbed wire. 1.00

00:59:36.820 That's what she's evoking to me.

00:59:38.360 We're bringing a baby.

00:59:39.580 We're passing a baby through a crowd of strangers.

00:59:42.260 And it's going to wind up somehow in Kamala's safe hands.

00:59:46.040 Oh, my God.

00:59:46.740 Is America the baby? 0.91

00:59:48.400 I don't know.

00:59:48.880 Is that the metaphor?

00:59:49.580 But honestly, what idiot would hand their infant child through a crowd of people in

00:59:54.300 the hopes that Kamala Harris would then touch it or bless it or kiss it?

00:59:57.020 That is absolutely foolish and stupid.

00:59:59.820 I don't even know if I believe it.

01:00:01.140 I don't know if I believe it.

01:00:02.000 We have video of this?

01:00:02.300 Exactly.

01:00:02.860 I had the same question.

01:00:04.240 This might be a Kamala invention. 0.98

01:00:05.940 And I love how she's like touting, I just feel safe and, you know, looked after.

01:00:10.500 Meanwhile, she's married to a guy who has a serious allegation that he abuses women.

01:00:14.920 So like, you know, maybe she is seeking some sort of safety or someplace she can go.

01:00:19.580 And really feel protected.

01:00:20.780 I really just thought, look, you know what you married, right?

01:00:23.260 He denies it.

01:00:24.180 But I totally believe the allegation.

01:00:25.940 And I've spoken with the accuser.

01:00:27.740 Okay.

01:00:28.140 So that's Kamala.

01:00:28.920 She's doing her thing.

01:00:30.080 Now, elsewhere on her book tour, she was in New York City.

01:00:33.820 And she was trying to tell everybody how great she is.

01:00:35.800 And she got interrupted by Gaza hecklers.

01:00:38.980 You know, the Hamas nicks are out there. 0.91

01:00:41.340 And here's how that went.

01:00:42.660 Sot 26.

01:00:45.860 That's crazy.

01:00:47.420 That's crazy.

01:00:48.100 And you guys, listen, listen, listen.

01:00:52.040 Please, please.

01:00:54.340 I actually also write about this.

01:00:58.220 Okay?

01:00:59.080 Which is about what I know about how and why you are saying what you are saying now.

01:01:07.620 And how I felt about it.

01:01:09.540 You're not letting me talk.

01:01:10.760 You know, I respect your right to speak.

01:01:14.180 You're not.

01:01:17.000 Okay.

01:01:17.760 Let's bring the temperature down.

01:01:20.020 Let's bring the temperature down.

01:01:22.160 Unlike the current president of the United States.

01:01:24.680 I am.

01:01:25.200 What's happening right now in Gaza, what is happening to the Palestinian people, is outrageous and it breaks my heart.

01:01:37.100 I get it.

01:01:39.960 I love that she tried to hawk her book to the Hamas nicks. 0.98

01:01:49.340 Right.

01:01:49.600 As I wrote about in my book.

01:01:51.180 Right.

01:01:51.640 I got a chapter for you guys.

01:01:53.420 Hey.

01:01:53.900 Right in the middle there.

01:01:54.820 It's in there.

01:01:55.340 By the way, you know, when I went to look at the latest on this, on Kamala being interrupted by pro-Palestinian activists, everything that came up was from the election.

01:02:06.780 Like in my Google search, like I wasn't getting anything current, like on her book tour.

01:02:14.660 I think I saw one article that was like, she was, she was speaking in Times Square.

01:02:18.980 Oh no, it was the cut.

01:02:20.000 It was the, it was about the other Balulus at the, at the cut who believe that she won.

01:02:24.840 Oh, the Balulus. 1.00

01:02:25.600 Yeah.

01:02:25.900 But, um, no, I'm, you're not seeing any of this that like, she's getting any sort of pushback on her tour from the far left.

01:02:33.020 Yes.

01:02:33.340 I'm not surprised.

01:02:34.220 I guess the media still wants to run cover for her. 1.00

01:02:36.400 Although if she actually does declare and put herself in a primary race, that will stop real quick. 0.99

01:02:42.520 Please, please, please.

01:02:43.400 I know.

01:02:43.780 So you mentioned the Balulus.

01:02:46.480 There is a group of people.

01:02:48.860 I didn't know this Maureen until my producers brought this to us that believes Kamala Harris won the election.

01:02:54.840 And, you know, as much as the left criticized Trump and, you know, his core faithful for saying he won 2020, they're out there saying, I'm quoting here, she's the president.

01:03:05.860 She won.

01:03:06.640 They believe that Elon Musk's internet provider, Starlink, manipulated votes.

01:03:12.920 How could it not have been voter fraud?

01:03:15.480 One asked.

01:03:16.380 And they call themselves the Balulu crowd. 0.96

01:03:21.120 Why again?

01:03:22.340 It's a riff on Delulu.

01:03:24.220 Like delusional.

01:03:25.180 Like you're delusional.

01:03:26.240 Yeah.

01:03:26.380 But they lean into that.

01:03:27.740 Yeah.

01:03:28.020 So weirdly, I haven't heard this reported anywhere other than the cut.

01:03:32.460 What do you make of this?

01:03:33.720 Is this just an extension of the leftist refusal to believe anything positive about Donald Trump?

01:03:40.260 It's so strange to me.

01:03:41.520 It does.

01:03:41.760 It does feel like a mirror image of those who sort of refused to believe that Trump lost in 16.

01:03:47.920 So it doesn't feel any.

01:03:49.200 Sorry, 20.

01:03:49.960 So that doesn't feel so strange to me.

01:03:52.180 But what does feel strange is the cohort that were profiled on the cut were like leaning into all of it.

01:03:59.800 They were basically like, yeah, we're the semi-alcoholic wine mom.

01:04:04.640 Like where's the Chardonnay bar at this joint where we're waiting to hear Kamala speak. 1.00

01:04:09.360 And they pay for like an hour of getting a bunch of word salad.

01:04:12.960 I mean, I know we're going to hit.

01:04:14.280 They're like roadies.

01:04:15.120 They are.

01:04:15.760 They're like groupies.

01:04:16.800 They're groupies.

01:04:17.860 They're groupies for what?

01:04:21.180 Right.

01:04:21.580 I don't know what it is.

01:04:22.720 They love salad.

01:04:24.000 It's not clear.

01:04:25.100 But can you be semi-alcoholic?

01:04:26.560 That's another question I have based on your comment.

01:04:28.840 I know we'll have to find out.

01:04:29.960 Now, before we leave presidential politics, President Trump is doing a lot to the White House.

01:04:34.440 Put up the flags.

01:04:35.400 He's doing a ballroom.

01:04:36.880 He changed the Rose Garden so that he had like a place to actually sit and meet with people.

01:04:42.280 And he also has rearranged the presidential portraits, which he was showing off the other day.

01:04:48.500 And here's some video.

01:04:49.380 They're all lined up one after the other.

01:04:51.580 You can see them all.

01:04:53.000 There's Nixon.

01:04:54.580 Oh, there's Clinton.

01:04:56.260 Yep.

01:04:56.620 There's George W. Bush.

01:04:57.880 There's Obama.

01:04:59.720 There's Trump.

01:05:02.040 And there's the auto pen.

01:05:06.540 That's hilarious.

01:05:07.680 And then there's Trump again.

01:05:08.680 That is one of the funniest things I've seen.

01:05:13.000 Can you believe he did that?

01:05:14.740 In a long time.

01:05:15.720 He took away Biden's picture and he put up the auto pen.

01:05:18.500 I love that.

01:05:20.880 I love it.

01:05:22.140 And again, it just goes to all of this rewriting of history that Kamala is doing right now on tour.

01:05:27.980 Good luck with that.

01:05:28.900 I love his sense of humor.

01:05:32.360 We're going to really miss it when he's gone.

01:05:34.320 We are.

01:05:35.380 I mean, that feels almost like, I don't know if you grew up as I did reading Mad Magazine.

01:05:40.300 Yeah.

01:05:40.460 But that feels like a very Mad Magazine-adjacent thing to do, you know?

01:05:43.760 People he's underestimated for his sense of humor and his willingness and desire to make us laugh,

01:05:49.480 which he does so well.

01:05:50.500 I think it's a totally fair thing to do.

01:05:52.120 His predecessor tried to put him in jail for the rest of his life.

01:05:54.620 So it's on.

01:05:55.580 It's fine.

01:05:56.060 He doesn't want to walk by Joe Biden's picture every day.

01:05:58.480 Who could blame him?

01:06:01.420 President Obama, he has some thoughts, and they're not necessarily about presidential politics,

01:06:06.700 though he does continue to weigh in on how terrible Trump is on everything.

01:06:09.560 He tries to bomb in, like, the voice of God, like, I will be the final arbiter of whether

01:06:15.860 Jimmy Kimmel should be canceled.

01:06:17.880 I will be the final arbiter of the James Comey, like, everything.

01:06:21.640 Like, he doesn't realize that he's totally lost relevance.

01:06:24.060 We don't care.

01:06:24.860 We do not care, as my lady says in the We Do Not Care Club.

01:06:28.920 That's how we feel about Barack Obama now.

01:06:31.060 But I did care about this.

01:06:32.700 Oh, we do?

01:06:33.160 Oh, let's watch it.

01:06:33.900 We've cut us out of, my lady.

01:06:35.000 Welcome to all new and existing members of the We Do Not Care Club.

01:06:42.960 I started this club for all women in perimenopause, menopause, and postmenopause.

01:06:49.720 We are putting the world on notice that we simply just do not care much anymore.

01:06:55.040 Let's go ahead and get started with today's announcements.

01:06:57.160 Friends, we do not care if you come over to our house and there's a pile of laundry on

01:07:06.120 the couch.

01:07:07.120 Just move it out the way and sit down or fold it.

01:07:11.300 We do not care if our hair is thinning on our head and thickening on our chin.

01:07:17.180 We do not care that we bought the sharing-sized bag of M&M's and then proceeded to eat the

01:07:24.600 entire bag ourselves.

01:07:26.740 Sharing is overrated.

01:07:28.400 We do not care that we stripped the beds this morning to wash the sheets.

01:07:32.960 It's bedtime.

01:07:34.060 We're tired.

01:07:35.180 Find a sleeping bag.

01:07:36.600 We do not care if something is not dishwasher safe.

01:07:41.340 It is now.

01:07:43.200 I love her so much.

01:07:46.480 Her name is Melanie Sanders, Melanie without the E at the end, and she's at JustBeingMelanie

01:07:52.260 on Instagram.

01:07:53.680 I live for this woman.

01:07:55.240 Tell me why.

01:07:56.120 Just because I love her, like her affect.

01:07:59.120 For the listening audience, she's got the highlighter stuck into like a headband of sorts.

01:08:03.700 She's always got one of those airplane pillows that you buy at the airport so you can sleep

01:08:06.680 better around the back of her neck.

01:08:09.060 She's like, she takes off her, like her notebook is always a mess and she's just like crinkling

01:08:13.620 it with a highlighter pen and the cap in her mouth, crossing out what she's done in her

01:08:18.620 agenda.

01:08:19.000 She treats it like a real board meeting, but she's saying the funniest stuff.

01:08:24.080 And while I will confess that I do care, even though I am now heading for mid-50s, I care.

01:08:29.840 I haven't actually lost all ability to care about these things.

01:08:33.480 I just love some of them.

01:08:35.140 They really hit home, like the M&M's thing.

01:08:37.300 Yes, I've been there.

01:08:38.640 Not too long ago, I was at the airport and I desperately wanted a bag of Cheetos.

01:08:42.100 They only had the oversized kind, you know, that's clearly to share with like a family.

01:08:46.680 And I ate the entire thing.

01:08:48.980 I love this.

01:08:49.640 It wasn't Maha.

01:08:50.860 It wasn't good for me.

01:08:52.240 I love it.

01:08:52.760 It was so delicious.

01:08:54.340 So like, I can totally relate to some of her moments and I just love her.

01:08:58.360 I love that.

01:08:59.040 You know, I love that she's also, if you watch it, the thing that struck me is she's got the

01:09:03.160 two, she's got one pair of glasses on and then her readers or whatever her real ones 0.99

01:09:07.500 are above it.

01:09:08.560 It's like she doesn't have the energy to like just swap one out for the other. 0.96

01:09:12.940 Yeah, we do not care.

01:09:14.340 So that is generally what I have to say to Barack Obama.

01:09:17.420 We do not care.

01:09:18.600 But I did care about this little ditty here, Maureen, where he decided to give us a little

01:09:22.280 insight into his relationship with Michelle.

01:09:26.240 Here it is, Sat 29.

01:09:29.340 Since I left office, I have spent over eight years now trying to dig myself out of a hole

01:09:41.000 with Michelle.

01:09:45.380 And that's been challenging, but I feel like I'm making progress.

01:09:51.200 I'm almost breaking even at the moment.

01:09:55.100 Oh my God.

01:09:56.860 It's perfect.

01:09:58.200 That's the, he's telling the truth.

01:10:00.020 Yeah.

01:10:00.240 It's the other side of the first side we always cover, which is her and how miserable she is. 0.65

01:10:05.740 I, I, I, I, again, like, I know we've talked about this at length and it feels like a real

01:10:11.780 puzzle for the ages, but why is he still whipping his, himself?

01:10:19.080 Like, why is he still wearing the hair shirt?

01:10:20.940 Why is he still suffering?

01:10:22.580 I don't know.

01:10:23.080 I don't know the hair shirt.

01:10:24.720 I don't know.

01:10:25.700 I, like, it's time.

01:10:26.940 They can easily say it didn't work out.

01:10:28.760 We're going to part ways and he's going to go with Jennifer Aniston or whomever.

01:10:33.420 Whomever.

01:10:34.620 Reggie, love, whomever.

01:10:36.800 Right, right.

01:10:37.600 But-

01:10:37.900 No judgment.

01:10:39.460 Live your life.

01:10:40.460 But no, it's so strange.

01:10:41.680 And then seeing the photos of them, you know, they're in this very consequential time in

01:10:46.680 American history, they've decided what better time as what they perceive themselves to be

01:10:51.360 as leaders of the Democratic Party to go yachting with Steven Spielberg.

01:10:54.720 Yeah.

01:10:55.060 And, um, she alights first wearing, if we could just talk fashion for a moment, I don't understand

01:11:01.840 what this woman is doing.

01:11:03.120 She's wearing denim on denim on denim of like a denim, like scarf wrapped around the hair, 0.88

01:11:09.060 the hair and, and she just looks, but she, she arrived like five hours before Barack 0.88

01:11:14.460 arrived on the yacht.

01:11:16.080 What?

01:11:16.500 Yeah.

01:11:16.740 They didn't even arrive together.

01:11:18.480 That's not a thing.

01:11:19.280 Nobody wants to do that.

01:11:20.180 You always want to go on with your partner, but that, but she does, but they don't, she 0.97

01:11:23.660 doesn't.

01:11:24.100 She, and, and, and Barack brought his laptop and there are photos of him on Spielberg's

01:11:28.500 yacht, like having a fine time with his laptop, you know, alone at a table.

01:11:34.160 That's probably how he's happiest.

01:11:35.800 I would bet he is.

01:11:36.840 To be honest.

01:11:37.440 I would bet he is.

01:11:38.500 It's actually, I, I feel kind of sorry for him, you know, because all she does is rip on

01:11:42.540 him and it's to the point where, you know, it's like, if this had been a passing comment

01:11:46.540 by her or by him once or twice, we wouldn't make anything out of it, but it's all she says

01:11:51.540 about her marriage.

01:11:52.180 The passing comment by Michelle will be the occasional need to try to rehabilitate things

01:11:57.220 where she comes out like, I love my man and we've worked things out and now things

01:12:01.100 are good.

01:12:01.440 Well, she's never says that, that much positive, but she'll throw out like one compliment in

01:12:06.480 the midst of 30 disses.

01:12:09.360 And what does he say?

01:12:10.680 As soon as he gets in front of it, like, he can't even look up.

01:12:13.520 He's like looking down.

01:12:14.540 Like, I'm just starting to make some headway and getting out of the enormous hole that I'm

01:12:20.000 in with Michelle.

01:12:21.000 You know, Bill Clinton did a lot worse to his wife on the world stage and he doesn't talk

01:12:25.680 like that.

01:12:26.100 It's true.

01:12:27.300 He seems like he's a happy guy.

01:12:29.100 Well, I don't, I think that comes from women other than Hillary. 1.00

01:12:31.940 Well, of course.

01:12:32.840 But what I'm saying, he's not like he's, he hasn't spent his life, even when he got

01:12:36.760 caught, really, it was sort of like he, he did the sort of things that you do, but you

01:12:41.120 could tell he was just like, I'm getting away with it.

01:12:42.940 Yeah, totally.

01:12:43.780 Like, I'm saying, you know, whatever.

01:12:44.880 Totally.

01:12:45.200 Okay, now, I don't know whether this person ever cheated.

01:12:50.160 I think he had a reputation for being a loving husband and family man, and that's Robert

01:12:55.040 Redford.

01:12:56.360 Was he, was he a cheater?

01:12:57.860 A little bit.

01:12:58.320 Okay.

01:12:58.840 A little bit.

01:12:59.200 Nevermind.

01:12:59.640 They all are.

01:13:00.600 Well, in any event, I was a big fan of Robert Redford's and I know you were too.

01:13:04.240 And the news has been so busy.

01:13:05.760 I haven't even gotten a chance to acknowledge that he died.

01:13:08.720 I can't believe he died, but he died.

01:13:10.720 89?

01:13:11.680 89.

01:13:12.040 I mean, that's a nice long life, especially for someone who's like living as big and as

01:13:17.540 boldly as he was all over the world and jet setting, which can wear you out.

01:13:21.560 Here he is wearing or holding his Oscar in that earlier picture at a younger time.

01:13:26.280 And, you know, for virtually every American woman of a certain age, if you didn't love Robert

01:13:33.600 Redford before this movie, you did after you saw The Way We Were.

01:13:39.580 Here's a scene with Barbra Streisand, Sop 55.

01:13:43.680 You never give up, do you?

01:13:58.980 Only when I'm absolutely forced to.

01:14:00.800 But I'm a very good loser.

01:14:07.660 Better than I am.

01:14:10.980 Well, I've had more practice.

01:14:21.380 Your girl is lovely, Hubble.

01:14:22.720 Why don't you bring her for a drink when you come? 0.98

01:14:29.380 I can't go.

01:14:33.020 I can't.

01:14:36.340 I know.

01:14:36.940 I know.

01:14:36.980 I know.

01:14:52.720 Oh, my God.

01:14:56.660 Totally.

01:14:56.980 I just love that movie.

01:14:58.300 Took me there.

01:14:59.740 I love that movie so much.

01:15:01.280 I love how you just sort of, it's like, they don't make those movies anymore, those 70s

01:15:04.940 movies where you just sort of sink into it and you luxuriate with these characters.

01:15:09.500 Yes.

01:15:09.840 You really get to know them.

01:15:11.280 And what I love about that movie is, you know, famously, Redford knew that Streisand

01:15:16.300 really fell for him while they were filming.

01:15:19.300 And he was very kind about it, but he also used it to help both of their performances.

01:15:25.540 And she really shone in that movie because of it.

01:15:28.760 She did.

01:15:29.420 She really did.

01:15:30.340 And you, what I also love about that movie is she, you know, from the beginning, it's

01:15:36.400 never going to work, you know, from the beginning.

01:15:38.660 And you can sense as the movie progresses, her increasing desperation and anger about

01:15:44.860 it, but her attempts to maintain her dignity throughout the whole thing.

01:15:48.860 It's just, I just love that movie so much.

01:15:51.860 The whole premise of it is an interesting one too, because first of all, he's devastatingly

01:15:55.680 handsome.

01:15:55.980 I mean, all American man with the chiseled chin and the tan skin and the blonde hair

01:16:02.340 cut just right.

01:16:03.380 Thick hair.

01:16:04.200 With the, with the, the trench coat up, you know, just, I mean, right on brand.

01:16:08.920 And he's also a rich wasp in this film.

01:16:12.900 You know, they meet at, I can't remember if it's Harvard, but it's some elite Ivy league

01:16:16.260 institution.

01:16:17.140 And she's the more loud Jewish American woman. 1.00

01:16:20.880 Like she's a communist when they first meet.

01:16:22.880 Yeah.

01:16:23.240 And she's got her megaphone and she's trying to rally people to the communist party and

01:16:27.160 to become Marxists.

01:16:28.000 And he's kind of laughing at her, but in a nice way, but they're from totally different

01:16:32.640 worlds, totally different worlds.

01:16:33.980 And you can, you can buy it because waspy, really rich trustafarians tend to be more buttoned 1.00

01:16:40.580 up and less, you know, showy and women. 0.81

01:16:46.380 It could be Jewish.

01:16:47.140 It could be Italian, you know, tend to be bigger personalities and warm.

01:16:52.960 And you can sense why these two personalities would be like a magnet toward one another.

01:16:58.540 And the whole movie does such a good job of building this, the tension between them, both

01:17:03.320 sexual and personality.

01:17:04.780 You know, like you said, it's, it was not meant to be, you know, but they so want to feel

01:17:10.140 the way they feel when the, when they're with this person most of the time.

01:17:13.460 Yes.

01:17:14.180 That they keep going back for more, even though the other 35% of the time is really a deal

01:17:19.360 breaker.

01:17:19.940 Yes.

01:17:20.420 Yes.

01:17:20.760 And it's, it's so true. 0.65

01:17:21.940 It's, it's fire and ice and it's, they were both attracted to, but I always felt with the

01:17:26.820 Redford character, he, and I haven't seen this movie in a while and I'm doing a little

01:17:31.780 retrospective, you know?

01:17:33.860 Yeah.

01:17:34.340 And so it's on my list along with, as I told a friend, like my shame watch, which I never

01:17:38.520 saw was Legal Eagles.

01:17:39.940 Oh yeah.

01:17:40.300 But I'm putting that on my list.

01:17:41.540 Deborah Winger?

01:17:42.200 Yeah.

01:17:42.780 And Gerald Hanna.

01:17:43.420 Oh wow, that came back to me.

01:17:44.120 Yeah.

01:17:45.780 But he, at, at, at least one point in the movie, he says something to her, like, you will

01:17:50.480 not let yourself be happy.

01:17:51.920 Like you hide behind all of these causes and this agitation politically as a way to keep

01:17:58.500 yourself from just being happy.

01:18:01.060 And it's so, it, it, it, it really, like he hit her id and she hit his id of like searching

01:18:07.740 for something more meaningful in his life than just his own beauty and wealth.

01:18:12.480 That's right.

01:18:13.240 But I tell you, like, not to be over the top, but I just going to, I'm going to say

01:18:18.260 one nice thing about Doug.

01:18:20.800 Doug is a little waspy.

01:18:22.280 I mean, he, he is a white Anglo section Protestant, Protestant.

01:18:25.600 He's Presbyterian.

01:18:26.740 He doesn't come from a very rich family, but he does come from a nice family in the main

01:18:30.320 line of Philadelphia.

01:18:31.580 And I love the fact that he's mine.

01:18:35.920 I love that we're married and I have him and he has me.

01:18:39.040 And sometimes I'll have a nightmare that I lose him, you know, that something happens

01:18:44.080 where like we, our family like gets just get torn apart.

01:18:49.040 And those are my worst nightmares, Maureen, because I almost picture that scene where it's

01:18:52.920 like, I'm looking across at this man who I love so much and I feel so lucky to be with

01:18:58.380 and like something makes it so that we can't be together.

01:19:01.480 And I'm like, so thankful that God, you know, thank God nothing like that has happened, but

01:19:06.440 it's a pleasure.

01:19:07.020 It's like a gift to love somebody like that.

01:19:08.980 Yeah.

01:19:09.280 And in her case, it's so sad that they, they can't be together.

01:19:12.900 But in my case, we can.

01:19:14.400 In your case, you can, but that's, and that's the other thing about this movie that I think,

01:19:18.660 you know, I was watching, um, three days, rewatching three days of the Condor the other

01:19:21.940 night, which if you have not seen do yourself the favor, I mean, oh my God.

01:19:26.680 They've done away.

01:19:28.120 Stunning.

01:19:28.940 Stunning.

01:19:29.520 Like height, both of them at the height of their powers.

01:19:31.760 And, um, what was the thing, where did I lose my train of thought?

01:19:35.620 It was about, oh, yes, but they don't end movies like that anymore today.

01:19:41.380 They don't end movies where the couple doesn't wind up together or where like the hero of

01:19:46.180 the film has an uncertain ending and you like, everything's not wrapped up with a bow.

01:19:50.160 And I so appreciate those endings because they get to exactly what you're talking about.

01:19:53.840 Like no matter how perfect anyone's life may look like from the outside, on the inside,

01:19:59.260 we're all consumed with anxieties and fears that are existential.

01:20:02.840 Right.

01:20:03.140 That can come haunt you in your sleep.

01:20:04.340 Exactly.

01:20:04.940 I also loved Up Close and Personal with Michelle Pfeiffer.

01:20:08.020 Never saw it.

01:20:08.760 Worth your time.

01:20:09.760 I was resistant to it because it was written by, um, Joan Didion and John Gregory.

01:20:13.440 Oh, well, I can see why then, but I really enjoyed it.

01:20:16.480 I mean, I was not in news when I saw it.

01:20:18.800 I think I was, yeah, it was, it was in the nineties.

01:20:20.540 Um, but I enjoyed this, the segment and I think it was loosely based on the Jeff's Jessica

01:20:25.260 Savage story.

01:20:26.120 Yes.

01:20:26.380 That's, I think that was also my resistance because Jessica Savage was so dark. 1.00

01:20:30.360 Yes.

01:20:30.920 So, and I, I want to go full dark.

01:20:34.360 Like I want to see her snorting cocaine five minutes before air, you know, like that's what 1.00

01:20:39.240 I want.

01:20:39.460 And they really sort of sanitized it to, you know, so, but I'll watch it.

01:20:42.960 I will watch that.

01:20:43.860 Well, they don't give her the same ending as Jessica Savage, spoiler alert, but you know,

01:20:48.820 Jessica Savage is the reason I am in news.

01:20:51.700 Stop.

01:20:52.220 Yes.

01:20:52.780 So the audience may not even be familiar with her, uh, the younger folks in particular,

01:20:56.380 but she came up in the, in the age of like Connie Chung, Barbara Walters, when there really

01:21:02.640 weren't many women in news at all.

01:21:04.400 And she was stunningly beautiful.

01:21:05.600 We'll drop in some pictures of her for the YouTube audience at this point.

01:21:08.320 And, um, but she had a great voice.

01:21:10.620 She had a great presence.

01:21:12.140 She, she projected tough, like beautiful, but tough. 0.96

01:21:14.900 And, um, she decided she wanted to be in news at a time when you just couldn't get in news

01:21:20.140 as a woman.

01:21:20.660 It was very, very, very hard, but she just through sheer tenacity, grit, and ambition,

01:21:26.460 she did it.

01:21:28.000 And she got hired at NBC where she then became a star.

01:21:32.500 And speaking of like the trench coat with the collar up on the outside of the, like those

01:21:36.100 gray Pentagon walls, that was her.

01:21:37.680 And, uh, she became a star, but she was tortured.

01:21:41.140 She was a tortured personality and she had an eating disorder and she was full of anxiety 0.96

01:21:47.920 at NBC and she had to be totally perfect. 0.99

01:21:50.020 And she actually did a great job of being perfect for a long time.

01:21:53.240 And then drugs started to take over her life.

01:21:57.820 And she infamously had an on-air meltdown while delivering the news into camera on NBC where 1.00

01:22:06.760 she became thick-tongued and started slurring. 0.95

01:22:10.580 And it was shocking.

01:22:11.560 I mean, it would be truly like if in the dawn of Peter Jennings, you know, reporting age,

01:22:16.380 he started to go thick-tongued and started slurring a kunga or, you know, like where you're

01:22:21.360 like, is he having a stroke?

01:22:22.680 Right.

01:22:23.120 And you could tell she wasn't having a stroke.

01:22:24.760 It seemed like she was, you know, drug-addled and she was.

01:22:28.300 Good evening.

01:22:29.160 President Reagan has canceled his planned visit to the Philippines.

01:22:32.180 The White House blamed the press of congressional business, but did not deny fear for the

01:22:36.660 president's safety.

01:22:38.160 The Supreme Court today left intact rulings of constitutional right to own a handgun.

01:22:45.220 And now this.

01:22:46.440 And then her ending was just so dark.

01:22:49.540 You know, I mean, it's a matter of historical facts.

01:22:51.760 I'm not really spoiling anything, but she dies in this, like, trench in New York.

01:22:57.820 New Hope, Pennsylvania on a rainy night.

01:23:00.800 And I've seen exactly where she died, where she was, like, backing out of this restaurant.

01:23:06.080 And I don't even know why there was this huge trench there, but it's almost like a little

01:23:10.180 creek.

01:23:10.560 And she couldn't see.

01:23:13.020 And she, I think she went over a fence that had been there and she backed in and she was 1.00

01:23:17.300 with her dog, Chewy, who she loved.

01:23:19.020 And the car flipped so that they were stuck in the muddy, watery ravine.

01:23:25.820 So she had, forgive me, it was going dark now, but she had such a terrible death and such an

01:23:29.800 interesting but tortured life.

01:23:31.440 And I know that part wasn't so inspirational, the drugs and the anxiety and the ending, but

01:23:38.040 the fact that she pulled herself up out of nothing with no connections and made it in

01:23:42.020 a business, you know, at a time when it was much tougher than when I wanted to get in,

01:23:45.920 was my inspo.

01:23:47.300 I saw the Jessica Savage story on Lifetime TV when I was an unhappy lawyer.

01:23:52.060 I had made a resume tape.

01:23:53.280 That's all I had, but no connections and no will to call anybody because I was afraid of

01:23:56.540 rejection.

01:23:56.880 And that day I was like, fuck it.

01:23:59.800 I'm going to start calling, cold calling news directors.

01:24:01.680 This is incredible.

01:24:02.460 Isn't that crazy?

01:24:02.840 If you do like a second memoir, I like, you got to put this in.

01:24:06.580 Like, so I find this fascinating too, because I find Jessica Savage just as compelling as

01:24:11.760 much for the dark stuff, if not more, because we don't see this anymore, right?

01:24:16.420 Yeah.

01:24:16.880 And one of the shows I've been talking a lot about on the nerve that I have fallen in

01:24:20.160 love with is The Newsreader, which is an-

01:24:22.100 Oh yeah.

01:24:22.780 It's on my list because of you.

01:24:24.420 You got to watch it.

01:24:25.480 It's foreign. 1.00

01:24:26.140 You and Jack would love it.

01:24:26.580 It's Australian and it's set in the eighties in a newsroom in Australia.

01:24:30.900 And the female anchor is played by this incredible actress named Anna Torv, who is related to

01:24:36.220 the Murdochs.

01:24:37.220 Oh.

01:24:37.420 She is a cousin of Lachlan and James, et cetera.

01:24:40.040 And she is very much in the Jessica Savage mold.

01:24:43.920 On air, perfect.

01:24:45.880 Off air, she struggles with what seems like bipolar disorder.

01:24:50.700 She has eating issues, all of it.

01:24:52.500 But it makes her such a- I think that's why people kind of really were drawn to Jessica

01:24:59.620 Savage.

01:25:00.100 They sensed there was something deeper underneath there, you know?

01:25:03.920 Yep.

01:25:04.260 And to see a woman like that and all of that complexity, you know, making her way through 0.92

01:25:09.460 sheer dint of talent and grit.

01:25:11.780 Again, something we don't really see that- now we see like the Nepo babies, you know? 1.00

01:25:16.260 Yes, exactly right.

01:25:17.640 Yes.

01:25:18.220 Well, one final word on Robert Redford.

01:25:19.880 I will say something about him.

01:25:22.120 He wrote me a personal handwritten note.

01:25:28.100 Now, obviously, he was a Democrat because it came after that debate with Trump.

01:25:33.360 Of course, he went to the left, loved me for that, you know, two minutes.

01:25:36.040 But I'm not going to lie, a note from Robert Redford is a note from Robert Redford.

01:25:41.040 I was thrilled.

01:25:41.640 Can you share what he said?

01:25:43.360 I know.

01:25:43.640 He basically said he was proud of me and he thought I was a great journalist.

01:25:47.800 Yeah.

01:25:48.220 And he didn't mention your looks.

01:25:50.060 No, God, no.

01:25:51.220 No.

01:25:51.740 That's what they used to call in the late 90s, early aughts, a neg.

01:25:58.160 What's that?

01:25:58.700 Have you ever heard of that?

01:25:59.220 No.

01:25:59.460 So I had to have a guy describe this to me as well after a weird incident at a bar with a guy who was like sort of weird.

01:26:05.720 And he was like, you just got negged.

01:26:06.820 I said, what is negged?

01:26:07.960 He said, that's when a guy will merely insult you or not mention the obvious as to why he's even talking to you.

01:26:17.700 It's sort of a way that like a guy is trying to punch up a little bit and try to bring you down so they can like engage.

01:26:24.100 Yes.

01:26:24.240 And there was a whole book written by a charlatan who went by the name Mystery.

01:26:28.700 I wound up on the New York Times bestseller list.

01:26:30.340 Anyway, I think Redford was nagging you a little bit.

01:26:33.100 Well, I took it for what it was worth.

01:26:34.960 I was thrilled just to get a note from Robert Redford.

01:26:37.780 I mean, even a neg is a pro. 1.00

01:26:40.560 Yeah.

01:26:40.760 No, it means like he wasn't going to mention the obvious thing, you know?

01:26:44.920 Yes.

01:26:45.300 That you were obviously beautiful and that was part of why he was writing to you.

01:26:48.360 I don't know.

01:26:48.680 You know, you had a little crush maybe.

01:26:49.900 I think it was like I got a lot of admiration from Democrats for that moment.

01:26:54.300 Meanwhile, I was like, let's see if you like me if I ever get to host a Dem debate.

01:26:57.900 You know, like this is I wasn't trying to take down Trump.

01:27:00.480 I was mean to all of them.

01:27:01.880 And I would be even meaner probably if I had a bunch of Dems, but they don't have the stones 0.99

01:27:05.300 to sit with me.

01:27:07.420 Then Robert Redford came on my NBC show.

01:27:10.800 No.

01:27:11.360 We have videotape of it.

01:27:12.280 I don't think we have a SOP, but we have a videotape of when he was there.

01:27:15.440 Yeah.

01:27:16.080 Yeah.

01:27:16.400 Okay.

01:27:16.700 He's walking out with Jane Fonda.

01:27:18.180 So it made it very complicated for me.

01:27:20.760 And look, there I am sitting with Robert Redford and I've got to tell you a crazy story.

01:27:26.040 So do you remember how I asked Jane Fonda about her plastic surgery and it made headlines

01:27:29.720 all around the world?

01:27:30.480 I do.

01:27:31.320 People said, oh, you're so insensitive.

01:27:32.760 Meanwhile, she had talked about it in every other interview.

01:27:34.460 A hundred percent.

01:27:34.900 Why can't everybody else ask about it?

01:27:36.160 But I can't ask about it, but whatever.

01:27:38.880 The reason I did that, the reason I went there is because Robert Redford's publicist

01:27:46.300 was in the audience, like in the front row and hers wasn't.

01:27:49.980 And she came to me right before I asked that question, whatever break was there.

01:27:54.000 I can't remember if it was at the top of the segment or in between two segments, but

01:27:57.560 she came to me and she was like, please don't let her talk about the sex scenes. 0.98

01:28:02.700 She's making him totally uncomfortable.

01:28:05.380 She, Jane Fonda, is making Bob.

01:28:07.900 Redford.

01:28:08.360 Yeah, totally uncomfortable.

01:28:09.780 She's obsessed with the sex scenes. 1.00

01:28:11.840 He's not into her that way.

01:28:13.820 She keeps wanting to talk about them and he hates it.

01:28:18.260 So she, like, I was trying to do him a solid by going to a place I thought Jane Fonda also

01:28:25.040 was very willing to talk about and to protect Robert Redford from having to listen to that

01:28:31.020 shit about their sex scenes, which he was uncomfortable with.

01:28:33.700 And no good deed goes unpunished, Maureen.

01:28:37.100 Poor Robert Redford at like 70, 75.

01:28:40.580 He still can't get off his cross.

01:28:42.260 Like every co-star is like, I just want to ask you, man.

01:28:48.380 Exactly right.

01:28:49.320 Well, we will miss him.

01:28:50.340 But what a legacy.

01:28:51.240 What a life he led.

01:28:52.620 All right.

01:28:52.740 We've got to take a quick break.

01:28:54.220 Maureen's going to be here for plenty more. 0.86

01:28:56.080 Don't go away.

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01:29:53.180 Welcome back to The Megyn Kelly Show.

01:29:54.840 Here with me today, Maureen Callahan, host of The Nerve on the MK Media Podcast Network.

01:29:59.720 Go to thenerveshow.com, subscribe on all podcast platforms and on YouTube.

01:30:05.160 Get in on all the fun.

01:30:06.760 Maureen is back on Tuesday as the show keeps growing.

01:30:10.300 It's a hit by any measure.

01:30:11.980 And if you want to see yours truly and Maureen together on tour,

01:30:16.040 go to megankelly.com and get your tickets now.

01:30:19.940 You won't be sorry.

01:30:20.820 You did.

01:30:21.280 So now speaking of my time on The Today Show,

01:30:25.100 our favorite person, Hoda Koppi,

01:30:27.780 who really just wanted to spend time with her daughters. 0.59

01:30:31.980 That's why she had to leave her post at The Today Show. 1.00

01:30:34.740 She's all about being a mom and doing what matters.

01:30:38.240 is back out with yet another product that she's hawking.

01:30:41.820 This time it's some book, which sounds like it's full of complete inanity.

01:30:46.300 What's going on?

01:30:47.840 I just like to say, I normally try to patronize my local bookstores

01:30:51.560 because I believe in that.

01:30:53.080 And I was at a local bookstore yesterday and I was like,

01:30:56.880 I cannot buy this book and approach any register.

01:31:00.480 I mean, you could read the Kamala book and you can't buy the Hoda book.

01:31:03.580 That's impressive.

01:31:04.020 I'm not buying it, but I'm buying it on Amazon Prime under a pseudonym.

01:31:07.120 You know what I'm saying?

01:31:08.320 Like, I won't.

01:31:10.220 But yes, I'm reading all of this stuff.

01:31:12.240 So I just read the extract in People.

01:31:14.140 Oh God.

01:31:14.480 Okay.

01:31:14.820 Yes.

01:31:15.240 Yes.

01:31:15.560 It sounds ridiculous.

01:31:16.540 I have it here somewhere.

01:31:17.540 Let's say you keep going.

01:31:18.500 So we are revisiting for the eight millionth time.

01:31:21.960 There are a lot of parallels with Kamala.

01:31:23.620 We're telling the same story over and over and over.

01:31:26.060 Yes.

01:31:26.400 I'm back in her dressing room at The Today Show while she's breaking the news.

01:31:30.520 And it's amazing to have her version of events where like her co-star on The Fourth Hour,

01:31:36.760 Jenna Bush Hager, is quote unquote devastated that she's leaving.

01:31:41.640 It's not like an all about Eve thing here where we're like, oh my God, finally the mantle is mine.

01:31:45.800 Let's get real.

01:31:46.640 That's what's going on.

01:31:47.960 This is my show now, bitch. 1.00

01:31:50.620 Finally, you're leaving.

01:31:52.840 No.

01:31:53.500 Jenna's devastated.

01:31:54.840 She's going, no, no, no.

01:31:56.540 Okay.

01:31:57.620 Wait, I found it.

01:31:58.660 This is what they say.

01:32:00.500 Okay.

01:32:01.460 The book, it's called Jump and Find Joy.

01:32:05.200 Book highlights via Amazon.

01:32:07.200 In her quest to better understand change.

01:32:10.020 What?

01:32:11.020 And how to work with, not against it.

01:32:14.560 Hoda relies on her reporting instincts to investigate how change works.

01:32:22.380 Who, in all caps, is approaching it with grace and what she can apply to her own life and share with others about how change works.

01:32:36.640 So you're going to get the wisdom of change experts.

01:32:43.320 Who's an expert on change?

01:32:45.920 A change expert.

01:32:47.100 A change expert.

01:32:49.060 It's a new lane of self-help.

01:32:51.760 Insights from the latest work on resilience and deeply personal stories from celebrities and generally inspirational people in our own communities.

01:33:03.200 And the headline is, it will shed new light on the moment she realized her engagement to Joel Schiffman was over in 2022.

01:33:12.160 She went to the Hoffman Institute and realized she was totally ready to dump him, even though they have two daughters together.

01:33:19.660 Very young ones.

01:33:20.840 Well, they were never married.

01:33:22.000 No.

01:33:22.220 So I always found that weird.

01:33:23.300 Like, you're adopting with somebody you're not married to.

01:33:25.340 What are you doing to these kids?

01:33:27.180 What are you doing to these kids?

01:33:28.260 Well, when you're Hoda Kotb, they'll give you the kids.

01:33:30.280 Yeah.

01:33:30.980 You're purchasing them, which is my opinion.

01:33:33.860 But she gave this.

01:33:35.440 So, okay, she's going to shed new light.

01:33:37.060 Anytime someone's like, I'm shedding new light, they're lying.

01:33:40.120 They're not shedding anything.

01:33:41.560 She used a bunch of word salad to say, well, the reason we broke up was like, I don't know.

01:33:45.440 I realized at some point this wasn't going to be the thing that was going to manifest for either one of us.

01:33:49.640 It's like, I think I emailed a friend of mine.

01:33:51.860 I was like, what does this mean?

01:33:52.640 My friend emailed back like lengthy, lengthy explanation.

01:33:55.840 She's saying that she's saying that.

01:33:56.860 I said, I think she's saying she caught him messing around.

01:34:00.980 Oh.

01:34:01.540 That's it?

01:34:02.260 Oh, that's it.

01:34:02.860 Wait, I got to look back at these quotes that are in here.

01:34:04.800 She said, she said, because she went to this thing called the Hoffman Institute where people go to like work on their issues.

01:34:09.600 And she felt like everything had shifted after she attended a one-week retreat there, explaining that she had an epiphany during the retreat and began to feel like she was a total phony on her relationship.

01:34:20.860 Our us felt different.

01:34:22.900 She also called the decision to split from Joel one of the best 10-second decisions of her life.

01:34:27.080 I think sometimes you know that a relationship is good, but it's not deepening.

01:34:30.420 We will co-parent in a beautiful way.

01:34:32.480 Okay.

01:34:32.740 Anyway, I'm sorry, but like their kids are young.

01:34:35.060 It's two daughters, one's eight, one's six.

01:34:37.900 Like maybe decide that before you decide to adopt the two children.

01:34:42.020 Like she just kind of threw away the relationship.

01:34:44.160 It seems to me rather cavalierly after an epiphany at the Hoffman Institute that things were not deepening.

01:34:52.680 I mean, listen, I have a divorce on my record, but my first husband and I got divorced.

01:34:57.640 We did not have kids.

01:34:59.080 I think when you have kids, a six and eight-year-old, maybe ideally in a perfect world, it would take time for you to end the relationship.

01:35:05.600 Again, they weren't married for something more than it's not deepening.

01:35:11.120 Yeah.

01:35:11.360 I mean, listen, I'll say as a product of a difficult home, I do wish my parents had like made good on their multiple threats to divorce.

01:35:17.180 But, you know, which is it?

01:35:20.200 She either had to go to the Hoffman Institute to do deep work for a week or she had a 10-second epiphany.

01:35:26.980 Well, it's perfect that she was at the Hoffman Institute because we've talked about this many times, how the people who are constantly focused on this bullshit are the least happy people.

01:35:36.660 You say this all the time and it's like every time you say it's like it's another epiphany.

01:35:40.780 It's like, yeah, it's like if you're perseverating on, first of all, if your world is that myopic, that it's about you, you, you, you, you, you are a bore.

01:35:50.440 You are a limited, non-intellectual, non-interesting person.

01:35:55.320 You're a bore.

01:35:56.520 And this is why she's telling the same story over and over.

01:35:59.600 Now we're revisiting Departing the Today Show.

01:36:02.160 Could you imagine, Megan, if you were still like, I'm talking about Departing the Today Show for the millionth time.

01:36:07.660 Honestly, this week I brought it up, the blackface thing because of Jimmy Kimmel and like how he did it all these times. 1.00

01:36:12.540 He never got canceled and he never cried any tears for me or stuck up for me.

01:36:15.540 But I hate going back to that because it's like, by this point, it's such a beaten horse.

01:36:19.800 It's like, oh my God, I, trust me, I know I and others are like, move on.

01:36:23.820 But she, yeah, she loves to go back.

01:36:25.860 And she did go back.

01:36:27.100 She sat with Savannah and we have a little, we have a little clip of her sitting with Savannah Guthrie talking about her book.

01:36:35.400 Hello.

01:36:35.960 Hello.

01:36:36.360 How are you?

01:36:37.660 This is so exciting.

01:36:39.260 I'm so happy to see you.

01:36:40.240 We miss you so much.

01:36:40.840 I like holding your hands.

01:36:42.040 I like sitting next to you.

01:36:43.260 I know, is this awkward for everyone else?

01:36:45.360 Whenever Haley says something, she goes, Haley is awesome. 0.57

01:36:48.720 Pow, pow, pow.

01:36:49.880 So I was like, I was in the kitchen.

01:36:51.960 I was like, mom's a CEO.

01:36:54.180 Pow, pow, pow.

01:36:55.760 Oh my God, Maureen.

01:36:58.440 She's a CEO? 0.97

01:36:59.780 Like you could just call yourself a CEO.

01:37:01.520 Founder, you could say.

01:37:02.900 A female founder. 0.99

01:37:04.120 A female flounder. 0.88

01:37:05.400 I love, like she's been gone for a minute.

01:37:08.560 I could, I can only imagine what like the actual people who are still on the Today Show, like see when they see like Hoda's on the roster.

01:37:14.480 It's like she's back again.

01:37:15.760 And I knew it was grim this week because she also, I, she did not co-host the fourth hour of today with Jenna.

01:37:21.960 Oh.

01:37:22.420 No, I don't even know if we had a guest segment at best, you know?

01:37:26.120 So it's like, it's like we're sliding further and further down that pole.

01:37:30.080 But they're probably like, we already promoted your stupid app like twice.

01:37:33.500 And now you're back for a book.

01:37:34.620 Like, are you sure you wanted to give up this job?

01:37:37.100 Are you sure?

01:37:37.580 She, she got like a month's long departure.

01:37:40.340 Like, I, I punish myself because I want to know what's getting pumped into the veins of this country, you know?

01:37:45.560 It's barely been like half a year.

01:37:47.440 I think she left eight months ago.

01:37:48.720 Yeah.

01:37:49.220 Yeah.

01:37:49.580 It's, it's like, give people time to miss you.

01:37:51.680 Yes.

01:37:51.980 But like now we found joy, which again, tell me how, like give me one concrete thing that you're selling this book on.

01:37:58.120 We found joy, but really we are talking to experts in change.

01:38:00.800 That's what you're going to find in this book.

01:38:02.220 You know, this, that for me was such a, like a trigger, but not actually, um, it's the many, many times I sat on the show, like the, the set of the today show and just, I had nothing like in the face of that false enthusiasm.

01:38:17.220 I got nothing.

01:38:18.460 It's so hard to, to like react appropriately to that.

01:38:22.520 You know, you're like, yeah, what would I have done across from pal, pal, pal.

01:38:29.460 I mean, give me your best poker face.

01:38:31.620 What would you have done?

01:38:33.980 We got to play it again.

01:38:35.320 We'll see that again.

01:38:36.680 Can we play that?

01:38:37.420 Rewrack that.

01:38:40.000 Hello.

01:38:40.620 Hello.

01:38:41.320 How are you?

01:38:42.400 This is so exciting.

01:38:43.960 I'm so happy to see you.

01:38:44.480 We miss you so much.

01:38:45.480 I like holding your hands.

01:38:46.480 I like sitting next to you.

01:38:47.900 I know.

01:38:48.320 Is this awkward for everyone else?

01:38:50.000 Whenever Haley says something, she goes, Haley is awesome. 0.57

01:38:53.360 Pow, pow, pow.

01:38:54.540 So I was like, I was always in the, in the kitchen.

01:38:56.580 I was like, mom's a CEO.

01:38:58.820 Pow, pow, pow.

01:39:01.620 They're both doing it.

01:39:03.260 She, she joined it.

01:39:05.200 With her friendship bracelets.

01:39:06.600 She's still wearing the friendship bracelets.

01:39:08.980 I'm going to, so we, we sent an interloper.

01:39:11.640 We sent a gorilla into Hoda's launch event in Connecticut.

01:39:17.680 In Connecticut the other night, Jenna got conscripted into doing this, like, after work, 7 p.m. book event at a, at a church.

01:39:27.180 And I said, you got to go in wearing the basic pitch uniform and you got to put those friendship bracelets on.

01:39:32.600 And she did it.

01:39:33.600 She armed up to go in incognito.

01:39:35.820 Oh, really?

01:39:36.420 One of our producers.

01:39:37.200 Yeah.

01:39:37.400 Yeah.

01:39:37.580 Cause you said Jenna.

01:39:38.440 And I thought you meant Jenna.

01:39:39.340 Jenna got conscripted into having the, like, let's talk about things that you and I've talked about ad nauseum.

01:39:44.280 Now I got it.

01:39:45.040 Now I got it.

01:39:46.100 Oh, I need to see every second of that.

01:39:47.940 Well, I, I can only promise you good things.

01:39:50.780 It's coming.

01:39:51.340 Yeah.

01:39:51.580 It's going to be patient.

01:39:53.420 Maybe I'll consult the Bible on change so that I can just get used to the fact that something big is going to change for me when I read and read this book and watch her segment about Hoda Copy.

01:40:03.900 Hoda and Jenna and Maria and Maria Shriver, all the, all the great minds of all the, you know, Socratic.

01:40:10.160 Honestly, I think I was temporarily insane when I agreed to go to NBC.

01:40:14.380 I really do.

01:40:15.180 Sometimes I look back and I think I was suffering a temporary bout of insanity.

01:40:20.920 It's funny, like with, with perspective and time, which you can see that in the moment seemed like a good idea.

01:40:26.540 My God, pow, pow, pow.

01:40:29.020 We'll be right back.

01:40:30.980 You know, what's crazy trusting the government or some random insurance agent to give good Medicare support.

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01:40:38.860 Get this.

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01:41:35.400 We absolutely have to keep talking.

01:41:37.900 It's more important now than ever.

01:41:40.120 This fall, Megyn Kelly is taking her show live to cities nationwide.

01:41:44.600 To go silent is not the answer.

01:41:46.960 I'm going.

01:41:47.700 I'm going to stand on these stages, and I'm going to say all the things that we say all the time on this show.

01:41:53.440 We're going to make it safe for me.

01:41:54.400 We're going to make it safe for my team and my guests and you.

01:41:57.120 And do something really important, which is say what's true and what's real.

01:42:01.640 And I would love for you to join me.

01:42:03.520 MegynKelley.com for the tickets.

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01:42:38.020 And we're back with Maureen Callahan, host of The Nerve.

01:42:41.460 All right.

01:42:42.460 Serena Williams is in the news.

01:42:44.720 Why?

01:42:45.280 Because she was in New York to support her friend Kim Kardashian with something she's doing with Nike.

01:42:53.820 And Serena Williams was in town to, like, attend to it.

01:42:57.300 And she's in some hotel.

01:42:58.840 We do not know which hotel she was staying in.

01:43:01.120 She did not publicize that.

01:43:02.860 But Serena Williams, who is one of the richest Americans alive, was triggered by something, Maureen.

01:43:11.060 And I'm going to show you what it was.

01:43:14.040 All right, everyone.

01:43:15.180 How do we feel about cotton as decoration?

01:43:20.480 Personally, for me, it doesn't feel great.

01:43:25.160 So, actually, it feels like no polish remover cotton.

01:43:29.700 Natural.

01:43:30.060 Natural.

01:43:36.380 Okay.

01:43:37.100 So, at the end of that video, she's plucked one of the cotton balls off of the plant. 0.98

01:43:41.380 And she's using it to buff her nails. 1.00

01:43:43.900 And then she does the hand gesture of, like, ew.

01:43:46.920 Like, where you shake your hands.

01:43:48.320 Like, ew, gross.

01:43:49.140 And she drops it.

01:43:50.300 Now, Serena Williams is triggered by cotton, I guess, because it used to be picked by slaves. 0.92

01:43:56.120 And she's a black American. 0.99

01:43:58.880 It's 2025.

01:44:00.580 Serena Williams is estimated by Forbes to be worth $350 million.

01:44:06.440 She's married to a very, very rich man, too.

01:44:09.400 She hung up her racket in 2022, ending a career in which she earned $95 million in prize money.

01:44:15.460 More prize money than any female athlete in history.

01:44:20.200 She has endorsement deals to this day with more than a dozen brands. 0.96

01:44:24.340 She's active as an investor in her own venture capital firm.

01:44:28.540 She's got a licensing deal with a beauty line. 1.00

01:44:31.920 She's launched a multimedia company.

01:44:33.760 She owns part of the Miami Dolphins.

01:44:36.280 But she is an oppressed, direct descendant of slaves, I guess.

01:44:40.820 And that's how she sees herself.

01:44:42.440 To this day, because, I guess, generational trauma, as the kids call it.

01:44:47.960 She can't walk by a cotton plant in a luxury hotel to go promote Kim Kardashian's skims line without feeling trauma that she has to videotape and post on Insta.

01:44:59.400 In her new Ozempic body. 0.67

01:45:01.240 Yes.

01:45:01.820 Or whatever the GLP one is.

01:45:03.520 I'm sorry.

01:45:03.860 It's not Ozempic.

01:45:04.240 But she's on it, and she's getting endorsement money for that. 1.00

01:45:07.360 Very clearly.

01:45:08.300 Well, if it's really, really that triggering, why not name them and shame them, Serena?

01:45:12.560 Why not name and shame that luxury hotel?

01:45:14.500 You want to know why?

01:45:15.120 I bet she's getting a really sweetheart deal staying there, if not comped. 1.00

01:45:18.100 So she's probably staying in a $25,000 a night presidential suite, but she doesn't want to upset the powers that be by saying this is the whatever. 0.77

01:45:27.200 And by the way, first of all, Meghan Markle's like, what happened to me?

01:45:30.600 I thought I was your best friend.

01:45:31.600 You're over in New York with Kim Kardashian, who, by the way, is befouling the steps of the New York Public Library doing a skims event.

01:45:41.360 Like, there are models, like, on every step in, like, skims, shapewear.

01:45:45.400 And it's like, is the New York Public Library in need of this much money?

01:45:50.240 Have they no standards whatsoever?

01:45:52.680 It really does upset me.

01:45:54.880 Like, not much upsets me, but, like, that to me is, like, hallowed ground.

01:45:58.160 Like, what's Kim and skims doing there? 0.99

01:46:01.540 Yeah, is there no standard whatsoever?

01:46:03.560 Well, I just can't believe how much, like, the woke leftist types lean into victimhood.

01:46:09.800 Like, this woman has it made. 1.00

01:46:11.880 She is so lucky she was born in the United States of America and was raised here and was given all the opportunities that she got, made the most out of them by sheer grit, determination, and talent.

01:46:23.920 Absolutely nobody would take that away from her.

01:46:26.140 Why does she want to associate herself with some sort of trigger by walking by cotton? 0.97

01:46:32.840 That because it just reminds you of slavery?

01:46:35.260 That's it?

01:46:35.600 Like, who, honestly, like, we all know about slavery, and by the way, that's like me being like, I can't walk by the potatoes in the Whole Foods because I'm triggered my people, my Irish people, the potato famine, and what was done to the Irish when they came to America.

01:46:50.240 Like, we can all do that.

01:46:51.660 That's the great Douglas Murray line.

01:46:53.360 We can all do that.

01:46:55.180 We can all do that.

01:46:57.080 Have you ever heard the joke about the potato famine?

01:46:59.860 No.

01:47:00.140 Oh, why didn't they just go fishing?

01:47:05.120 Anyway.

01:47:05.840 Did not.

01:47:06.540 No, but this is the thing about Serena.

01:47:08.320 She was always a brat. 0.98

01:47:09.900 Like, she was always a brat on the tennis court. 0.99

01:47:12.880 Like, towards the end of her career, at her final U.S. Open, it was one or two maybe before the final.

01:47:20.740 I forget.

01:47:21.280 But she was losing, and she wasn't supposed to lose.

01:47:23.600 The narrative and all of USTA, they all wanted her to win and go out as the queen.

01:47:27.720 And Naomi, along came Naomi Osaka, who was, like, derailing that narrative.

01:47:32.660 Because, you know, and when Serena realized Naomi, the 17-year-old, was beating her, she started throwing these fits. 1.00

01:47:37.840 And that's a psychological trick to try to throw off your opponent.

01:47:41.140 And at one point, she goes up to that.

01:47:42.580 She was, she got a foul or some sort of technical call because she yelled at the line ref. 1.00

01:47:49.040 I'm a mother.

01:47:50.160 She went into that.

01:47:51.400 I'm a mother.

01:47:51.980 You think I would lie?

01:47:52.960 I'm a mother.

01:47:53.560 Oh, yeah.

01:47:54.080 That was, like, my favorite.

01:47:55.020 That's right.

01:47:55.580 All mothers are good.

01:47:56.620 That wasn't that she was accused of taking coaching from her coach.

01:48:00.220 Oh, yeah.

01:48:00.640 And it was banned back then.

01:48:02.020 It's not now.

01:48:02.960 Her hot coach.

01:48:03.640 Yeah.

01:48:03.920 Who was, like, doing this, what I found, a very sexual movement.

01:48:06.660 She had had a relationship with him.

01:48:08.120 Oh, whoa, whoa.

01:48:08.940 I didn't know that.

01:48:09.960 Oh, yeah.

01:48:10.600 And the coaching from the stand was like this.

01:48:12.100 It was like, I swear to God.

01:48:15.120 I swear.

01:48:15.860 Once you see it, you could never unsee it.

01:48:18.160 You could never unsee it.

01:48:19.820 You've got to watch this on YouTube.

01:48:21.260 If you're not watching this on YouTube, go to the one hour, three minute marketing.

01:48:26.020 Casey Morgan's imitation.

01:48:29.600 Wow.

01:48:30.620 Well, I say, please just stop.

01:48:33.000 She's got homes in Paris, Beverly Hills, in Jupiter, Florida, which is one of the most

01:48:38.420 posh, expensive areas you can buy in.

01:48:40.560 Her husband, by the way, was, I think, the CEO of Reddit.

01:48:44.260 Yes.

01:48:44.700 Or a co-founder.

01:48:45.740 Yeah, co-founder.

01:48:46.280 And he resigned his post during the Black Lives Matter, George Floyd-a-palooza period so

01:48:51.860 that a white, so that a black person can have it.

01:48:54.060 He's white.

01:48:55.440 Okay.

01:48:56.020 He seems scared of her to me all the time.

01:48:58.300 Whenever I see them together.

01:48:59.400 Yeah, that's where I was going.

01:49:01.500 Like, he seems afraid.

01:49:03.040 It's ridiculous.

01:49:04.580 I mean, like, you are hashtag part of the problem, sir.

01:49:07.520 And I'm sure he's nurturing her fear of cotton right now as we speak. 0.75

01:49:15.060 Okay.

01:49:15.320 While we're on the subject of absurd people, Meghan Markle's back in the news, our favorite.

01:49:19.840 She gave an interview to Bloomberg.

01:49:22.460 I know you're aware of this.

01:49:23.820 Emily Chang at Bloomberg.

01:49:25.660 And they had some casual conversation.

01:49:28.700 We'll start with, I guess, 39 for Kix.

01:49:32.400 Is there an inherent tension in trying to be relatable while also being a duchess?

01:49:41.620 Oh, God.

01:49:43.280 No.

01:49:43.940 I don't find, I'm just being myself.

01:49:46.980 So, I think probably it was different several years ago where I couldn't be as vocal and

01:49:55.820 I had to wear nude pantyhose all the time.

01:49:59.980 Let's be honest.

01:50:01.540 That was not very myself.

01:50:03.820 I hadn't seen pantyhose since movies in the 80s.

01:50:06.400 When they came in the little egg, that felt a little bit inauthentic.

01:50:09.200 But that's a silly example.

01:50:10.220 But it is an example of when you're able to dress the way you want to dress and you're

01:50:14.100 able to say the things that are true and you're able to show up in a space really organically

01:50:19.320 and authentically.

01:50:22.660 Single tear.

01:50:24.280 Show up in a space organically and authentically.

01:50:26.560 It's the Hoda Lexicon.

01:50:27.640 She had it so tough, Maureen.

01:50:30.720 She couldn't be her true self because they made her wear the nude pantyhose. 0.97

01:50:34.600 And to say what you want to say.

01:50:35.860 But I don't know what it is.

01:50:36.840 What is it you want to say?

01:50:37.660 Like, get it out.

01:50:38.560 It's been 10 years.

01:50:40.160 Spit it out.

01:50:40.980 What are you trying to say, lady?

01:50:44.120 For once and for all.

01:50:46.060 Spit it out is right.

01:50:47.680 Yeah, no.

01:50:48.220 I mean, I'm just my authentic self.

01:50:50.040 That's it.

01:50:50.660 I mean, truer words were never not spoken by her.

01:50:54.380 She's like, no one knows who she is. 0.99

01:50:56.660 What we hear behind the scenes is that she's a bully who fires everybody, runs around only 1.00

01:51:01.280 worried about herself.

01:51:02.100 But when she gets on camera, she actually is a decent actress in being like, I'm just this

01:51:07.280 super relatable person with her own flower sprinkles and, you know, candle line.

01:51:14.580 And I just sit around being like a working mom.

01:51:16.720 I'm just like all the other working moms. 1.00

01:51:19.000 Right.

01:51:19.800 That's me.

01:51:20.540 Right.

01:51:21.480 There's a there.

01:51:22.460 I think it's before that part in the Emily episode, which is they're eating smash burgers

01:51:28.560 at her favorite burger joint.

01:51:30.520 We have it.

01:51:32.020 We think you're talking about 37.

01:51:34.060 Let's see.

01:51:35.860 Things got real all before noon on a Tuesday.

01:51:39.600 When do you feel the least Duchess of Sussex?

01:51:42.100 Oh, my God.

01:51:42.580 This woman's an idiot. 1.00

01:51:43.420 Sitting here eating a smash burger with you and being asked these questions.

01:51:48.680 I'm having the same vibe as pow, pow, pow.

01:51:51.760 Oh, my God.

01:51:52.340 Yes.

01:51:52.900 Yes.

01:51:53.280 And also, what an insult to your interviewer who flew to Montecito.

01:51:56.640 When do you feel the least Duchess of Sussex?

01:51:58.580 Like, sitting here with you, sitting here with you.

01:52:01.620 She deserved it.

01:52:02.700 That girl's an idiot. 1.00

01:52:04.400 I'm sorry, but that interview was painful.

01:52:06.860 Like, she's obsessed with the Duchess thing.

01:52:08.800 She is.

01:52:09.340 But also, like, again, you want a really interesting interview, right?

01:52:14.300 You really want to go viral and make some noise.

01:52:16.820 Like, you sit down with an antagonist.

01:52:19.520 She should sit down with the likes of you. 0.92

01:52:21.160 Oh, my God.

01:52:22.120 Can you imagine?

01:52:22.860 Or the likes of me.

01:52:24.000 Or, like, I said on the nerves the other day, like, I think the smartest thing Megan could 1.00

01:52:27.360 have done was after we did, which the Academy of Television Arts and Sciences, how they ignored

01:52:33.060 with love Megan with a Y.

01:52:34.400 We were dissed.

01:52:35.340 It was wrong.

01:52:36.420 We were robbed.

01:52:37.180 Yeah, we were totally robbed.

01:52:38.100 But I think the smartest play for her would have been to have her people reach out to

01:52:42.740 you and say, hey, I'd like to come play.

01:52:44.420 Like, can I come and do that version with you guys?

01:52:47.940 And she would have been, like, the next door neighbor that you didn't know moved in, and

01:52:51.180 we're just having, like, fancy whatever we were making.

01:52:54.780 I don't even remember.

01:52:55.100 That would have made us like her. 0.99

01:52:57.380 Yeah.

01:52:57.900 We would have had no choice.

01:52:59.280 It would have been kind of sad.

01:53:00.040 Like, oh, you have a sense of humor.

01:53:01.280 Right.

01:53:01.800 But it's no accident she didn't do it, because she doesn't have a sense of humor about herself.

01:53:05.420 No, no, no.

01:53:06.300 I think she's got voodoo dolls of you. 1.00

01:53:08.440 Yeah.

01:53:09.200 And you.

01:53:10.460 Don't drag me into this.

01:53:11.560 You're in it, sister.

01:53:12.940 I'm just a supporting player.

01:53:14.560 Here's set 38.

01:53:15.780 We got one more to go.

01:53:17.960 And yet there were mixed reviews.

01:53:20.200 How did that land for you?

01:53:22.340 Oh, God.

01:53:22.600 I think I knew who I was trying to meet.

01:53:24.880 I think oftentimes the negative voices, are they saying negative things and then secretly

01:53:29.400 going home and making single skillet spaghetti?

01:53:32.260 Possibly.

01:53:33.260 And that's all right.

01:53:34.000 They're trying to pay their bills.

01:53:35.560 And that's for them to sort out if they're comfortable doing it at someone else's detriment.

01:53:39.360 From my standpoint, the intention of the show was to share more of myself, to share tips

01:53:44.640 that I love in my life, and to have fun.

01:53:46.640 But there's this take that you're glorifying homemaking or glorifying trad wives.

01:53:52.060 Oh, really?

01:53:53.320 That feels odd to me.

01:53:55.520 Yeah.

01:53:55.940 How do you respond to that?

01:53:56.860 That feels odd to me.

01:53:57.680 I mean, I hadn't heard that.

01:54:01.240 But I'm really unapologetic about the fact that I, though, would it be lovely to go and

01:54:07.120 churn your own butter?

01:54:07.900 Sure.

01:54:09.280 Sure.

01:54:09.960 Maybe.

01:54:10.680 I don't have time for that.

01:54:12.340 I don't have time for that.

01:54:13.380 And I don't think you get an extra gold star if you do that.

01:54:16.560 Oh, my God.

01:54:17.740 I hate them both so much with every fiber of my being.

01:54:21.200 That interviewer is an idiot.

01:54:23.240 Emily Chang?

01:54:24.540 How dumb is she that there's a, you know, there's a criticism that it's, like, promoting

01:54:29.620 trad wives?

01:54:30.500 Like, who would ever want to be, like, you actually promoted domesticity.

01:54:33.820 Who would ever want to do that?

01:54:35.260 Right.

01:54:35.700 You're promoting cooking and homemaking and taking care of your children and building 0.70

01:54:41.680 a warm, loving environment.

01:54:44.380 But Emily, you know, Emily's really, she's a very serious person because she puts her hand

01:54:50.300 on her chin.

01:54:50.960 Yeah.

01:54:51.180 She leans in a lot.

01:54:52.040 She's got the super short hair. 0.97

01:54:53.420 Yes, we're very serious.

01:54:55.040 We're very, very serious.

01:54:56.280 And what a missed opportunity for Meghan Markle there.

01:54:59.100 She should have said, first of all, you're an idiot.

01:55:02.160 Let's start with that.

01:55:03.760 And then she should have said, why would that be a bad thing?

01:55:07.160 Right.

01:55:07.940 What's wrong with staying home?

01:55:09.300 Right.

01:55:09.800 Creating a great home for your family.

01:55:11.700 I would have loved for her to turn it back on that interviewer. 0.98

01:55:14.320 But instead, she's like, oh, my God, I'm getting out progressived by my progressive

01:55:18.700 interviewer.

01:55:19.380 So, I mean, I'd love to stay at home and churn butter, but I don't have time for that.

01:55:23.960 Meanwhile, you fucking showed us your beehive.

01:55:26.300 What are you?

01:55:26.600 Oh, my God.

01:55:27.180 Pick a lane.

01:55:28.420 One hundred percent.

01:55:29.520 She is.

01:55:30.040 She is exactly doing that shit because she's part of the one percent. 0.94

01:55:33.620 The reason she couldn't respond, I think, quickly to that is because she's got a staff 0.97

01:55:38.420 raising her kids.

01:55:39.680 If she were really raising her kids, she would know that's the hardest job on the planet. 0.73

01:55:44.220 She would feel attacked.

01:55:44.960 And you never get time off.

01:55:46.420 And you would say, you know what?

01:55:48.160 There's nothing wrong with that.

01:55:49.340 Right.

01:55:49.540 In fact, that's the hardest job there is.

01:55:51.380 Right.

01:55:51.660 So, yeah, I would lean into that.

01:55:53.220 Right.

01:55:53.400 She wasn't offended because she doesn't actually do that. 0.94

01:55:55.920 No.

01:55:56.200 She actually does look down on that, just like the interviewer does.

01:55:59.200 That's what happened there.

01:56:00.380 That's what she's doing, by the way, when she's not taking Emily to her favorite bookstore,

01:56:03.500 where Emily's asking, what have you read lately?

01:56:05.080 And she says, I don't have time to read.

01:56:06.700 Okay.

01:56:07.020 But this is my favorite place to go.

01:56:08.280 Is it Jump for Joy?

01:56:11.980 Is she secretly ordering?

01:56:13.560 Okay.

01:56:13.860 So, I just want to say that business about, well, some people attack me to pay their bills,

01:56:20.200 but then are they eating one pot pasta?

01:56:22.600 I feel attacked.

01:56:23.920 I think that was at us.

01:56:25.220 I do too, but we weren't even secretly doing it.

01:56:27.440 We made one pot pasta to mock you.

01:56:30.520 We didn't actually make it to enjoy it.

01:56:33.020 No, we didn't.

01:56:33.500 So, I believe this happened after we stopped filming it.

01:56:37.620 But didn't we try it?

01:56:38.680 Yeah, it actually was pretty good.

01:56:39.840 It was pretty good.

01:56:40.560 Yeah.

01:56:40.880 It was like, but we can say that.

01:56:42.540 Yeah.

01:56:42.660 We can say that.

01:56:43.640 But it was Martha Stewart's recipe. 0.96

01:56:45.500 That's why it was good.

01:56:46.740 Right, right, right, right.

01:56:47.660 We worked off of Martha's recipe just like you did, Duchess.

01:56:51.580 Yes, and I love how she says, if you feel comfortable denigrating people, yeah, I do when they deserve

01:56:58.220 it.

01:56:58.460 I totally do.

01:56:59.040 I absolutely freaking do.

01:57:00.340 Yes.

01:57:00.680 I feel that aligns completely with my values.

01:57:03.260 And she did it to the British royal family until she killed off the Queen and Prince Philip. 1.00

01:57:10.040 So, you know.

01:57:10.720 I didn't call my whole country racist like you did.

01:57:12.940 Exactly.

01:57:13.420 Yeah, I didn't kill my grandmother-in-law.

01:57:15.780 No.

01:57:16.320 None of that happened in my world.

01:57:17.740 No, I didn't.

01:57:18.420 I didn't cut my husband off from his entire family of origin and keep my children from

01:57:22.440 a historical lineage, the likes of which has never been seen since.

01:57:26.040 Exactly.

01:57:26.180 Like, get out.

01:57:27.080 Oh, my God, Megan, I have to tell you something before I forget.

01:57:30.360 There is this documentary on Netflix that you will love.

01:57:33.120 It is called Rebel Royals.

01:57:34.880 Oh, sounds good.

01:57:36.340 It's like if the Harry and Megan story was funny.

01:57:38.960 So, it's about Princess Marta Louise of Norway who falls in love with a black American shaman

01:57:47.500 from L.A.

01:57:48.920 Wow.

01:57:49.560 He's gay. 0.99

01:57:50.700 Oh, that's a problem.

01:57:52.420 But not for her.

01:57:53.940 What do you mean?

01:57:55.500 It's like you see them planning their wedding.

01:57:59.800 And it's so funny because he starts off, he's on camera first, and two words out of his

01:58:05.540 mouth.

01:58:05.820 And I'm saying, this guy's a gay guy.

01:58:07.700 Like, what's he doing?

01:58:08.940 Four words in, he's like, now I am a gay man.

01:58:12.820 Is this a problem?

01:58:13.820 Not really.

01:58:14.820 What?

01:58:15.180 Yeah, because he's like, he's coming into his full flower because he's going to become

01:58:18.960 a royal.

01:58:19.960 Oh, my God.

01:58:20.620 Well, yeah, who could blame him?

01:58:21.860 This has got Cory Booker vibes.

01:58:24.200 But it's like the opposite of, because like, you know, Megan was exactly like the theater

01:58:28.200 kid in Megan was like, what's a bigger stage than royalty?

01:58:30.580 Yes.

01:58:31.040 But she resists it.

01:58:32.480 But like, this guy's like all in.

01:58:34.440 He wants it.

01:58:35.120 And like, even like the princess is divorced.

01:58:38.200 And in Norway, it's a huge deal because like the royal family is really all they have culturally

01:58:42.660 and historically.

01:58:43.600 It's a huge, huge deal.

01:58:44.480 So they take it very seriously.

01:58:45.980 And she's got these three children, girls from her first marriage.

01:58:50.800 And they're like sitting around the table in L.A.

01:58:52.920 And they're just talking to him like, yeah, I like, you're like my favorite gay uncle.

01:58:56.840 This is hilarious.

01:58:58.020 So they actually get married?

01:59:00.120 Do you want to spoil it?

01:59:00.900 Oh, no, no, no, I don't.

01:59:02.020 No.

01:59:02.600 I've got to run down.

01:59:03.460 Rebel oils.

01:59:04.160 You'll love it.

01:59:05.020 Now, the thing about the beekeeping reminded me of something.

01:59:09.060 Guess what happened to me the other day?

01:59:11.340 I went out on our side deck and I was reading and then it got sunny, too sunny.

01:59:18.840 I was getting hot.

01:59:19.880 And so I went over to, we have one of those umbrellas, you know, that blocks the sun, one

01:59:24.320 of those big like patio umbrellas.

01:59:26.280 And I went over to raise the umbrella part and I put my hand underneath.

01:59:34.000 I got stung and then all these bees came out.

01:59:39.940 I ran.

01:59:41.860 I ran back into the house.

01:59:43.840 I was under attack.

01:59:45.860 I've never been stung by a bee before.

01:59:49.380 Wow.

01:59:49.780 Yeah.

01:59:50.060 I've gone 54 years without ever having a bee sting.

01:59:53.300 I'm like, where's this going?

01:59:54.960 So then we called like the bee guy to come deal with this. 0.99

01:59:59.600 And he told me I had been attacked by the bees who were at the outpost.

02:00:07.240 The big, what he said was aggressive hornet's nest was up a little higher on the house,

02:00:14.100 like by the gutter in a corner, which we hadn't seen.

02:00:17.780 It was huge.

02:00:20.120 I can't believe we haven't been all killed by these hornets, which if I showed you this,

02:00:26.840 you would like you'd run in fear.

02:00:29.600 I had my hand up there.

02:00:31.640 There was a second hive.

02:00:33.320 I was attacked.

02:00:34.780 And as it turns out, I have no bee allergy.

02:00:37.320 But it was disturbing.

02:00:38.640 That is, that is terrifying.

02:00:40.000 That is terrifying.

02:00:41.080 You think it's like not going to happen.

02:00:42.340 And like, you know, like, like a nice porch, mac or whatever.

02:00:46.160 Everything's clean.

02:00:47.440 We hadn't raised that umbrella in forever.

02:00:49.140 You know, that was the problem.

02:00:50.220 Like we just never raised that umbrella.

02:00:52.180 And unfortunately I was the first one to go after like two years and try to raise it up.

02:00:56.840 And I, I went on chat GPT immediately to say like, what do you do for a bee sting?

02:01:00.700 And I did get some good advice.

02:01:03.080 It said, get a credit card and rub it along where you can, cause I could see the stinger

02:01:08.720 like in my, it was sort of on the side of my thumb and rub it.

02:01:12.080 And that'll get the stinger out because if the stinger stays in, it continues delivering 0.99

02:01:15.820 like the poison and it came right out.

02:01:18.800 And sure enough, it, can I tell you like, it didn't hurt that bad.

02:01:23.220 Yeah.

02:01:23.380 It's not that bad.

02:01:24.020 Have you ever been stung by a bee?

02:01:24.960 Yeah.

02:01:25.200 Like once or twice.

02:01:26.320 Yeah.

02:01:26.820 It was not pleasant, but I would have expected it to be horrible.

02:01:31.100 No, it's not that bad.

02:01:32.120 Is a wasp worse?

02:01:34.000 I don't know.

02:01:34.320 I've never been stung by a wasp.

02:01:35.660 Mosquitoes to me are the worst. 0.88

02:01:36.760 I'm taking your text, your emails.

02:01:38.280 Now you can email me Megan at Megan Kelly.com.

02:01:42.060 Sometimes I give out my personal email by mistake and that's, I remember not to do that.

02:01:50.060 That's the show email, but I do read them.

02:01:52.240 But anyway, that credit card will take out the stinger and save you, I think, considerable

02:01:57.060 pain.

02:01:57.700 So how about that for a little, for a little fun, fun tip.

02:02:00.420 Now, while we're on the subject of the Royals, things are happening.

02:02:05.660 Prince Harry, unfortunately, seems to be making up with the King.

02:02:09.580 I know.

02:02:10.160 They had tea and cake.

02:02:11.960 I know.

02:02:12.420 And he's planning on spending a lot more time in the UK.

02:02:16.640 And I, while I feel for King Charles, like every parent wants to be with the son or the

02:02:23.640 daughter, even if they're ne'er do well, I object to this so strongly.

02:02:28.360 I do not want that, those two going back into the Royal family.

02:02:31.540 And it seems like the groundwork is being laid.

02:02:33.260 I object strenuously.

02:02:35.480 And I think, you know, I also read that Harry has said he is going to enroll his children

02:02:40.940 at Eton.

02:02:41.980 Oh, no.

02:02:43.040 Yeah.

02:02:43.680 Oh, my God.

02:02:45.220 And I feel, this is my theory.

02:02:48.640 I feel as though this is Charles waging war on William.

02:02:53.720 Oh.

02:02:54.320 Charles and William have a fractious relationship at best.

02:02:59.760 And William is dead set on slimlining the monarchy, slimming it down rather.

02:03:07.000 And, you know, did you see that Andrew next to him at that funeral for the Duchess of Kent?

02:03:12.340 Andrew was trying to talk to William.

02:03:14.040 They were together.

02:03:14.580 And William's like, anywhere else.

02:03:16.000 Oh, my God.

02:03:16.600 And I kind of love, I love William's energy right now.

02:03:22.400 I find it very attractive.

02:03:23.440 He's like, don't F with me.

02:03:24.660 You know, like, I'm like, I mean business.

02:03:27.860 And Harry's not getting back in.

02:03:29.520 But I feel like Charles is trying to, he resents William in many ways, apparently, is the line.

02:03:37.720 And in welcoming, in making it clear that Harry may have a way back in.

02:03:42.960 It's a dagger.

02:03:44.220 To me, it's a Cain and Abel story.

02:03:46.160 Yeah.

02:03:46.620 It's the good son versus the bad son.

02:03:48.800 And as so often in families where you have a ne'er-do-well or a problem child who's always causing grief, it's always those ones who get, like, chance after chance.

02:03:58.100 I know.

02:03:58.520 It's infuriating.

02:03:59.680 Yeah.

02:04:00.020 Long past the point where the siblings are done with his person.

02:04:02.800 Exactly.

02:04:03.280 Well, Prince William did give an interview, and it wasn't about this, but it was kind of personal.

02:04:10.200 He, it was a, it was a preview.

02:04:12.520 Oh, Eugene Levy of Schmitz Creek did the interview.

02:04:16.040 He has a new show called The Reluctant Traveler.

02:04:18.360 And he actually, what a get to get Prince William to sit down with you.

02:04:21.560 What a get.

02:04:21.960 And here's a bit of it in Sop 40.

02:04:24.580 Why don't you pop down to the castle, William, from the Prince of Wales?

02:04:29.960 Your Royal Highness.

02:04:32.160 Blessed be.

02:04:33.640 We provide this service for everyone.

02:04:35.560 We do personalized tours everywhere.

02:04:37.340 What do you do when you're home?

02:04:39.700 Sleep.

02:04:41.060 Really?

02:04:41.720 When you've got three small children, sleep was an important part of my life.

02:04:44.940 I'd say 2024 was the hardest year I've ever had.

02:04:47.560 You know, life is sent to test us as well, and being able to overcome that is what makes us who we are.

02:04:54.180 His accent is so divine.

02:04:56.320 I know.

02:04:56.840 Isn't it?

02:04:57.320 I know.

02:04:57.740 It's so nice.

02:04:58.520 It's the upper crust British accent without, like, a moment spent on the wrong side of the tracks.

02:05:03.940 Yes.

02:05:04.440 Very, very lovely to listen to.

02:05:06.660 And economy of words.

02:05:08.740 Yeah.

02:05:09.120 Not a lot of filler like we get from the Kamalas and the Megans of the world. 1.00

02:05:12.300 Right.

02:05:12.420 We're trying to squeeze a cogent thought out, so we're buying time.

02:05:16.460 Can you imagine him across from her having to listen to that?

02:05:19.600 It's the greatest—I always say it's the greatest favor she ever did that royal family.

02:05:23.380 Can you imagine having to sit across from her and listen to the, like, nonsense and the social justice warrior language and the this?

02:05:32.840 No.

02:05:33.020 I mean, no, no.

02:05:34.660 And every comment about herself?

02:05:36.600 Everything about herself.

02:05:37.860 Literally.

02:05:38.300 Back to me.

02:05:39.540 Did you know that when I was a kid, I wrote a letter to a dish soap company?

02:05:43.480 Oh.

02:05:46.060 Have you heard that one before?

02:05:47.240 Exactly.

02:05:47.840 I was a feminist right from the beginning. 0.64

02:05:49.680 That's why I relate to you, Madam Queen.

02:05:51.960 Yes, exactly.

02:05:52.960 You know, yeah, I used to eat—I used to read Ms. Magazine while eating my tray table.

02:05:59.320 What do you call those?

02:05:59.920 TV dinners?

02:06:00.580 Also, I'm totally ready to dump my own family.

02:06:03.020 Right, right.

02:06:03.820 I'm a person of real morals and character, and I totally—I'll dump any—I'll throw anybody under the bus.

02:06:09.280 Take me.

02:06:10.380 Pick me.

02:06:11.000 Pick me.

02:06:11.820 This is a nice story that I wanted to get to.

02:06:14.660 Tim Allen, you know, home improvement.

02:06:17.520 Tim Allen, he's great.

02:06:19.080 He came out with this amazing revelation today.

02:06:24.840 I think he posted it on X.

02:06:26.740 Is that where he did it?

02:06:28.080 Yeah, it was on X.

02:06:29.140 And it relates to Erica Kirk, Charlie's widow, of course, and that extraordinary moment that we saw at Charlie's memorial.

02:06:39.520 My husband, Charlie, he wanted to save young men just like the one who took his life.

02:06:52.760 That young man—that young man on the cross, our Savior said,

02:07:18.280 Father, forgive them, for they not know what they do.

02:07:30.300 That man—that young man—I forgive him.

02:07:39.880 I feel like in a year, that's going to be Charlie getting murdered and Erica forgiving the killer.

02:07:58.860 Those are going to be the two moments that we remember about this story.

02:08:01.440 Those two just almost equally extraordinary moments.

02:08:04.980 And Tim Allen was watching, and he posted on X,

02:08:09.280 When Erica Kirk spoke the words on the man who killed her husband,

02:08:14.020 That man—that young man—I forgive him.

02:08:18.240 That moment deeply affected me.

02:08:20.460 I have struggled for over 60 years to forgive the man who killed my dad.

02:08:25.600 I will say those words now as I type.

02:08:29.120 I forgive the man who killed my father.

02:08:32.280 Peace be with you all.

02:08:33.380 And it turns out Tim Allen's dad was killed by a drunk driver.

02:08:41.640 And I—and the dad, Tim Allen's dad, was in the car with his wife and the kids.

02:08:47.400 Tim was 11.

02:08:49.340 I think he was one of them.

02:08:51.040 I'm not totally sure.

02:08:52.700 Um, and his mom was killed.

02:08:54.920 So can you imagine this poor guy who's gone on to become an international star?

02:08:59.320 I'm sure he's got plenty of money, all these Hollywood contacts, very sensible.

02:09:02.800 I think he's right-leaning, though he doesn't totally come out, uh, and in your face with it.

02:09:07.560 And to say he was inspired by this 36-year-old woman at the height of her grieving who did an extraordinary thing.

02:09:16.200 And, you know, they say, like, forgiveness, if you can do it, releases you.

02:09:19.560 It's a gift you give to yourself.

02:09:20.900 It releases you from harboring resentment and anger and these things that can be corrosive.

02:09:27.540 Like, what a gift she gave to him, which obviously wasn't the intention, but, like, it has the effect of, you know, helping others when you do an extraordinary act of kindness.

02:09:36.100 I had no idea that his father was killed, uh, and that he carried that around.

02:09:43.420 There's so many people who have these, you know, Kelsey Grammer's another who had family members who were murdered.

02:09:49.420 Um, it's so interesting.

02:09:51.500 You know, I heard that and I thought, I, I don't think I could ever really get there.

02:09:57.640 Like, I believe in, I believe that there, so this is just me speaking for me.

02:10:04.120 I do believe there are people who don't deserve it.

02:10:06.620 I do believe that.

02:10:07.580 And I believe there's, you can make your peace with something that happened that is tragic, senseless, unfair, unjust, a targeted, deliberate act that was thought through.

02:10:21.920 I personally would not feel the need to forgive.

02:10:25.500 That's just me.

02:10:26.120 I would feel the need to make my peace with what happened.

02:10:29.340 But as for what became of that person, not my, you know, in fact, I'd probably make it my business to make sure that when we were talking about Brian Koberger last time.

02:10:41.100 Yeah.

02:10:41.820 And I was like, I believe in the God of the Old Testament.

02:10:44.160 Yeah.

02:10:44.580 Wrath and vengeance sometimes, that's what's necessary.

02:10:46.980 I want him to suffer.

02:10:49.080 I, I know exactly what you're saying.

02:10:51.160 I am more in your camp and I shouldn't be, you know, I'm a calf.

02:10:56.100 I know I'm supposed to forgive.

02:10:58.900 We're meant to be persecuted and accept that as part of our lives.

02:11:02.000 And we are called upon to forgive, you know, those who trespass as, you know, as we forgive those who trespass against us.

02:11:08.960 And it's just so hard.

02:11:11.200 Like, I think eventually I can get there.

02:11:13.600 You know, eventually on most things I get there.

02:11:16.100 I'm definitely not in that mode on, on Charlie's killer yet.

02:11:18.940 I mean, that's why Erica is so extraordinary, which, but she is a truly deeply faithful person.

02:11:23.880 And, you know, there are sliding scales of how deep your faith is.

02:11:27.500 I definitely think hers is deeper than mine and it's uplifted her life probably more than mine is uplifted mine.

02:11:32.520 It's an inspiration for me, like try harder, read more, do better.

02:11:36.340 Charlie was too.

02:11:37.940 I don't know.

02:11:38.780 I mean, we haven't really talked about the Charlie situation.

02:11:41.880 You didn't know him, but you, did you, did you see it?

02:11:44.980 Did you watch it?

02:11:45.700 Did you?

02:11:45.840 I, I didn't watch it deliberately.

02:11:48.400 My editor called and told me and, uh, said that he had seen it and that it was very clear that he was not going to come back from it, that he was, it clearly had been killed instantly.

02:11:59.340 And, and then, you know, what I did was I, I was out, I came home and I immediately turned you on because I was like, this is the only person that I'm going to get the real story from the real thing.

02:12:13.300 And to see you and Mark and Rich talking about it and holding out the hope and you find yourself in that moment wanting to believe there is hope when you know there probably is no hope.

02:12:26.040 And all of it just seeming so surreal and so, um, truly senseless and, and, and just, uh, uh, a hideous act of violence that took the life of above and beyond anything, a young husband and father.

02:12:41.560 I, you know, I, um, I, I, I don't, I don't, I don't know.

02:12:48.120 I, you know, I, it's, it's something I wrestle with, you know, I was raised Catholic and I'm, I'm not practicing.

02:12:53.760 Um, but I, I really wrestle with issues like what is moral?

02:12:58.980 What is moral?

02:13:00.220 Is it moral to make sure that someone who would methodically plan out a murder such as this and revel in it?

02:13:10.840 Is it more moral for that person to suffer or to be removed from society permanently?

02:13:18.640 Is that what I, I do, I do wonder.

02:13:21.600 You mean like death penalty versus a terrible life in a super max prison where he has to linger and.

02:13:28.700 Both, both are satisfactory to me, though.

02:13:31.220 I believe a person like Erica would say, well, no, the true, the true highest level would be to forgive.

02:13:38.900 Well, she wants, I mean, I don't know, actually, I shouldn't say, cause she specifically said, she said to me personally, and she said in an interview with the New York times, she said, let just leave that up to law enforcement.

02:13:49.660 Cause I don't want that on my soul.

02:13:52.260 She's so sweet and loving.

02:13:53.900 She's, she's worried that if she endorses the death penalty for him, it could, it could come back to haunt her when she tries to get into heaven.

02:14:02.660 She pictures Charlie there with Jesus.

02:14:04.820 And if this is not moral to call for a man's death, she doesn't want it to count against her.

02:14:11.260 You know, she feels like it could keep her divided from Charlie forever.

02:14:13.700 That's, that's how observant she is and how thoughtful she is.

02:14:17.420 Meanwhile, I was like, you do whatever you have to do.

02:14:20.200 The rest of us got this.

02:14:21.200 Like you actually don't, you you're handling it perfectly because there's plenty of us out there who are calling for the death penalty and whose role that is.

02:14:28.680 We all have our role.

02:14:29.680 You know, Charlie used to say that Charlie used to say, like, there's some people who are called to be like evangelists for the faith.

02:14:36.020 And there are some people who are called to go on missions and spread the faith.

02:14:38.940 And then there are other people who are called to be more rhetorical warriors where, you know, we have to make points and we have to make arguments and we have to make sure that we argue for justice and make sure that there are clear facts around why we need it and so on.

02:14:50.680 And I definitely see myself in that latter camp.

02:14:52.620 But Erica's role is, I actually see her right now as a very consequential figure.

02:14:58.920 You know, I've been thinking a lot lately about faith and God and God's plan and why, why, why, why, why, why, why, why, if you would live the life Charlie led, would this happen to you?

02:15:08.080 And I know that many people believe, my fellow Christians believe that this too was part of God's plan, you know, that, and, and also you can argue it's free will, basically, that the master plan of Charlie coming home was God's plan, but that there's free will and that Charlie's decision to go that day and so on, that was his decision.

02:15:27.400 I still can't like quite get my arms around it, but I do see Erica as like this hugely consequential figure because millions of people have been inspired by what she did at that funeral and feel extra connected to their faith because of her, the Tim Allen thing.

02:15:42.920 And it got me thinking, like, what if Erica was always meant, if you believe in a master plan, to be the one who would have the biggest impact on the world, on America, on young people?

02:15:59.540 I don't know.

02:16:00.480 Her journey professionally in the public eye is really just beginning in earnest.

02:16:04.660 And God willing, she'll have, you know, 50, 60 more years to do it, but she's so extraordinary.

02:16:11.740 She has a very different skillset than Charlie had.

02:16:14.020 They're not lined up exactly.

02:16:16.180 But what if her skillset and what she's about to bring to the world turns out to be equally extraordinary, you know, to what we got from Charlie?

02:16:27.600 It's not to justify anything that happened to Charlie.

02:16:29.400 I'm just saying, like, maybe we've been given this extremely gifted person because that's exactly what we need for the next 36, you know?

02:16:37.920 It's funny you say that because I've been thinking about that a lot.

02:16:40.480 You know, before this tragedy, her role, as they both saw it and agreed and enjoyed, was that she was his helper.

02:16:54.200 She was the one who was the support.

02:16:56.620 She was behind the scenes.

02:16:58.540 And the way she stepped into a public role so seamlessly in the midst of an unthinkable, unthinkable tragedy.

02:17:07.860 I thought to myself, you know, this woman, whether she realized it before or not, she's like a natural leader.

02:17:17.280 She's a natural public person.

02:17:21.100 She has something to say and something to offer.

02:17:24.960 And what I find is such a fascinating takeaway is, you know, this is still so fresh and raw and it's only been two weeks.

02:17:36.960 But what's emerged from it is even amid conversations like you and I are having, you know, which is the more moral thing.

02:17:45.060 It seems that there's been a shift towards wanting good to come of this and light to come of it.

02:17:53.480 From the normies anyway.

02:17:54.960 But it's such a stark contrast to what happened after George Floyd or, you know, like this sort of desire to destroy and to vent rage.

02:18:05.460 And everybody feels rage.

02:18:06.600 I mean, I feel, I feel even in listening to you over the past couple of weeks when this has happened, I hear the rage in your voice.

02:18:15.920 And when I hear it, I think to myself, that's good.

02:18:18.800 That's healthy.

02:18:19.720 Like you've got to get through the rage of it because it's so unfair.

02:18:22.720 Yeah.

02:18:23.300 You know, and that's a healthy part of mourning is being furious.

02:18:27.180 Yeah.

02:18:27.400 And then you get to the other side where you can really begin to see after the dust settles what the larger point of it may be that is so beyond our own understanding.

02:18:38.480 Yeah.

02:18:38.860 I feel like I'm at the beginning of that.

02:18:40.720 You know, I'm just putting a toe into reconciliation and, you know, acceptance and understanding.

02:18:48.700 But yeah, I have felt rageful for sure.

02:18:51.000 And I have, it has been cathartic.

02:18:53.420 You know, people ask me about the show all the time that this is my therapy.

02:18:55.640 This is my catharsis to sit on this set and be able to say what's real, what, what I think about the news to help other people who are trying to navigate a very difficult news landscape.

02:19:05.340 If I don't do this, I don't know what I'd be doing.

02:19:08.280 I'd be, I'd be, if I have a day off, Maureen, you should see me kicking around the house.

02:19:11.640 Like, I don't, I'm like, I accomplished nothing.

02:19:14.880 I can't do anything.

02:19:16.100 I'm just like, it's four o'clock in the afternoon.

02:19:18.640 I've done nothing.

02:19:19.280 I just like, I don't even know what to do with myself.

02:19:22.020 Now on the weekend, we have it structured where like, no one expects me to be at work.

02:19:26.180 So like, my kids are there and Doug is there and we like, I know what to do.

02:19:29.340 But if I have like an unexpected weekday off, I'm like, who am I?

02:19:32.760 I have no, I have no habits, no hobbies.

02:19:34.440 I don't know what to do.

02:19:35.360 So I love coming out here and having my say and I've definitely felt rageful.

02:19:41.260 And that thing you said about the day it happened, you mentioned Mark Halperin.

02:19:46.320 That is one of the lasting images I'll have is Mark, who is such a like tough reporter.

02:19:51.980 He's a reporter's reporter, you know?

02:19:53.740 And I was shocked to see Mark openly weeping and really with the handkerchief, like nonstop.

02:20:02.500 And I was feeling it too.

02:20:03.940 But, you know, I kind of expected that for myself.

02:20:06.260 And it was something that really moved me because, you know, here he is this man, like

02:20:10.920 this chiseled reporter, you know, shoe leather guy.

02:20:14.340 And it was just a moment where your humanity took over, no matter whether you're a man or

02:20:20.020 a woman or, you know, shoe leather or not.

02:20:23.420 And I heard from so many of the audience, men and women who are feeling and going through

02:20:27.220 exactly the same thing at the same time.

02:20:28.860 When I saw that, my heart just went out to him.

02:20:31.820 It went out to him because I could see him looking out of frame down at his phone and

02:20:37.760 knowing that he was getting updates, updates, updates, and that they were terrible.

02:20:40.780 And he looked like he was just somewhere, like he just had to rush himself into some sort

02:20:45.940 of closed room that was like a conference center or whatever.

02:20:48.820 So you're already probably feeling very discombobulated and you're getting this and you're trying

02:20:52.860 to relay what you know of this person.

02:20:55.100 And like when he said, I just caught myself speaking of Charlie in the past tense, and

02:21:01.680 I hope that I will be having a beer with him down the line and saying, remember that,

02:21:06.920 you know, and we all relate to those moments when we've heard.

02:21:10.780 A loved one has, and it's sudden, you know, you, Matthew McConaughey was talking about

02:21:14.160 this with you.

02:21:15.680 And God, like what an impressive guy he is.

02:21:19.240 Wasn't he amazing?

02:21:20.560 Like if you said, Matthew McConaughey, deep thinker, you know, but what a deep thinker.

02:21:28.480 Yeah, his image doesn't necessarily line up with what we experienced in that hour.

02:21:33.400 And the way he was talking about raising his kids.

02:21:36.040 Yeah.

02:21:36.820 You know, he, he lived it, you know, he intentionally left Hollywood.

02:21:40.760 He went back to Texas.

02:21:42.060 He raised his kids there for a reason, you know, with intention.

02:21:45.600 He's from Texas.

02:21:46.620 He's not one of these like celebs who gloms on and like puts on a pair of cowboy boots

02:21:50.760 and is like, I'm from Texas.

02:21:51.860 You know, like, no, he is, he's a Texan.

02:21:54.200 He donates to the university, his time, his money.

02:21:57.600 Like I found him very impressive.

02:21:59.260 And to have been writing those poems his whole life, he's clearly a reflective, thoughtful

02:22:04.140 guy.

02:22:05.120 He really is.

02:22:05.780 And when he, he talked about revisiting them and going, oh, this was a really, this was

02:22:10.300 a kid who was really trying to impress himself in the world.

02:22:13.040 And he's, I had the thesaurus next to me.

02:22:14.960 And that really just melted my heart.

02:22:16.540 I just thought like, God, somebody with a lot of self-awareness who can kind of laugh

02:22:20.540 at himself.

02:22:21.120 And I remember, um, watching him in that first true detective.

02:22:26.560 Yes.

02:22:26.980 So good.

02:22:28.140 Blown away by him.

02:22:30.740 Blown away.

02:22:31.680 And just, I just, and, and honestly, there are very few Hollywood stars where when something

02:22:37.660 terrible happens, you're like, you know, I'd really like to hear from this person.

02:22:40.420 Yeah.

02:22:40.720 True.

02:22:41.280 It's true.

02:22:41.660 And after Uvalde and he and his wife, because they were natives, because they're from there

02:22:47.800 and they can speak to it and everything about it felt genuine.

02:22:51.360 It didn't feel as though he was using as, as one Megan Markle's blew down there.

02:22:56.180 Unlike someone else.

02:22:57.360 You know, which she should never be forgiven for.

02:22:59.520 Talk about things you never forgive.

02:23:01.020 Yeah.

02:23:01.200 I would never forgive that.

02:23:02.500 Same.

02:23:02.940 That's disgusting.

02:23:04.060 You know?

02:23:04.900 But yeah, I just loved him.

02:23:05.880 And oh, by the way, speaking of rage, um, I think one of your favorite targets of mine

02:23:11.220 that you did the other day is Jimmy Kimmel.

02:23:14.060 Oh my gosh.

02:23:15.120 With his.

02:23:16.000 Can you believe?

02:23:16.940 With the tears.

02:23:18.360 May I share my theory?

02:23:19.540 Oh, please do.

02:23:21.560 So I watched that, you know, I had to, uh, and all I could think of was remember John Boehner.

02:23:28.280 Yes.

02:23:28.640 How speaker John Boehner.

02:23:30.160 Who would get on the floor and start weeping about anything.

02:23:34.780 And.

02:23:34.920 Cried a lot.

02:23:35.940 Everybody.

02:23:36.500 The working theory, which I subscribe to is like either just my opinion, a dry drunk

02:23:41.420 or an active alcoholic and the emotions are always up here.

02:23:44.880 And so you can be talking about the price of milk, but we're going to start weeping.

02:23:48.840 Jimmy Kimmel.

02:23:49.920 Allegedly.

02:23:50.960 Allegedly.

02:23:51.720 Jimmy Kimmel.

02:23:52.560 I look at the, the, the sudden weeping out of nowhere.

02:23:55.100 And I'm like, this guy, this guy's not well.

02:23:57.220 Yeah.

02:23:57.420 Like, I mean, I think he's terrible.

02:23:58.660 And I think he, he was a liar.

02:24:00.100 Like you said, you said what you said.

02:24:01.440 We all heard it.

02:24:02.020 It's on videotape.

02:24:02.720 What are you talking about?

02:24:03.380 That's right.

02:24:03.860 But the weeping.

02:24:05.380 I'm like, it's like, did you lose a husband?

02:24:07.460 I'm like, shut up.

02:24:09.060 What are you crying for?

02:24:10.500 It's true.

02:24:10.800 And he didn't, he didn't cry one tear for Erica Kirk.

02:24:13.580 No.

02:24:13.860 Not one tear.

02:24:15.620 They were all for himself.

02:24:16.960 It was so obvious.

02:24:18.660 It's like, if he actually had tears to shed for Erica, it would have happened right after

02:24:22.140 Charlie was killed.

02:24:23.580 He got out there and cried because he almost lost his, his favorite thing.

02:24:27.780 His special show.

02:24:29.040 His ability to feel like a star because he can read jokes other people write for him.

02:24:36.360 I mean, that's his special talent.

02:24:38.320 He's not some great interviewer.

02:24:40.100 He's actually not even that great a comedian.

02:24:42.160 Somebody else writes these so-called jokes, which are not even funny, by the way.

02:24:46.440 They're not, they're not, the quote unquote jokes in the monologue were, were not funny,

02:24:51.100 not funny at all.

02:24:52.300 And so my favorite thing about this is, you know, we had so many of Jimmy's famous friends

02:24:57.460 coming to his defense, you know, first amendments on the line, first amendment, you know, our

02:25:02.200 way of life, very way of life is being threatened.

02:25:04.720 His most famous, famous, powerful A-list friends, Jennifer Aniston and one Matthew Damon

02:25:10.920 kept their mouths shut.

02:25:13.780 Yes.

02:25:14.140 What's up with that?

02:25:15.520 Oh, I wonder what do you, do you, they're too smart.

02:25:19.320 They're not going to go near this third rail.

02:25:21.360 Yes.

02:25:21.580 So is, is the first amendment under attack or is it not?

02:25:24.480 Because if Jennifer Aniston doesn't think so, then I sure do not.

02:25:29.300 I noticed the same thing.

02:25:31.320 Like the ones that he's having the weekly dinner parties with, the flights to Mexico, the

02:25:36.820 some, the yearly John's to Cabo.

02:25:39.180 Can I tell you something?

02:25:40.160 So I don't really know Matt Damon, but I know him a little, like we ski at the same

02:25:44.460 place.

02:25:44.820 So I see him every winter and he is a good guy.

02:25:48.360 He seems like a great guy.

02:25:49.560 He's definitely a dem and he was raised by, I think, a school teacher and, you know, he's 0.92

02:25:53.700 got sort of that like union and teacher and, you know, blue collar thing and that's great.

02:25:58.080 But he's, he doesn't put his politics in your face like, like all of them do.

02:26:01.680 Yeah.

02:26:02.040 And he's somebody who's, he's always been very nice to me and he knows my politics.

02:26:05.460 Of course I don't make any secret of them and that's, that's to his credit, right?

02:26:08.280 Cause they don't all like that's true that some, the committed leftists will hate you

02:26:13.100 when they find out you're on the right or nevermind a Trump supporter.

02:26:15.320 Yeah.

02:26:15.580 Like you're immediately moved into the bad person category.

02:26:18.760 So that's to his credit.

02:26:19.960 Now you're right.

02:26:20.540 He was probably way too smart to touch that with a 10 foot pole.

02:26:22.840 I like Matt Damon a lot.

02:26:24.220 I do.

02:26:24.840 And I think he's very, very smart.

02:26:26.660 I think he knows exactly what's up.

02:26:28.220 And I don't, I didn't believe Jimmy Kimmel when he said, you know, I have a lot of people

02:26:32.640 in my life who are on the other side, like his eyes couldn't stay to the camera.

02:26:36.900 That's it.

02:26:37.380 Oh, Adam Carolla.

02:26:38.420 That's it.

02:26:38.760 We love Adam, but that's, it's a list of one.

02:26:40.780 I don't believe that he's got a bunch of Republicans in his family.

02:26:43.440 Bull.

02:26:44.120 No way.

02:26:45.100 You know, but you know, okay, Jimmy, Jimmy saved his failing talk show for another,

02:26:49.780 I guess, eight months.

02:26:51.060 I mean, I think he wanted out.

02:26:52.420 I think he was going to, I thought he was going to use that as his power sheet out.

02:26:54.760 I don't think he wants out.

02:26:55.680 I think he wants to stay there forever.

02:26:56.980 He would never feel okay in the podcast lane.

02:26:58.980 I think he thinks that's beneath him.

02:27:00.820 Oh, you think so?

02:27:01.600 Yeah.

02:27:02.160 I think he desperately wants to hold onto this show.

02:27:04.500 He keeps telling us how it's like, it's, it's doing well.

02:27:06.840 No, it's not.

02:27:07.440 It's not doing well at all.

02:27:08.840 He's making the argument for why it's still relevant and deserves to be on the air.

02:27:12.100 Now, um, I didn't hear this person's thoughts, but, um, I do know why she's busy.

02:27:18.120 Hilaria Baldwin.

02:27:19.620 She did not weigh in on the Jimmy Kimmel saga.

02:27:22.160 As far as I know.

02:27:23.140 Well, he didn't, he didn't give a speech in Spanish.

02:27:25.300 So she didn't understand the whole thing.

02:27:27.340 English is her second language.

02:27:29.120 She's doing dancing with the stars.

02:27:31.400 This is like, I'm starting to feel bad for her.

02:27:33.820 Like she's basically just doing anything she can to keep herself in the news.

02:27:37.040 You know, it's like whatever I can to be on camera.

02:27:39.620 Like that ridiculous reality show that she and Alec were doing.

02:27:42.900 Um, you know, her weird stints is like a cook or some sort of home expert on the today show. 1.00

02:27:48.680 So, um, and now dancing with the stars.

02:27:52.300 Um, and she gave an interview on GMA where something familiar came back.

02:28:00.140 See if you can detect it.

02:28:01.660 I mean, this was just a, like an insane thing that I did.

02:28:06.660 And I've had so many times I'm less and less now because my kids are so happy.

02:28:10.580 But at the beginning I was like, am I crazy?

02:28:13.340 Like, cause this really was like a few days.

02:28:15.620 I signed the paperwork between landing and getting my bags.

02:28:21.400 Like that's how fast this whole thing was.

02:28:24.000 It was like a real, it was interesting because fans started to write into the show just saying

02:28:28.360 you should be on dancing with the stars.

02:28:29.480 And I was kind of like, really, really?

02:28:31.640 And then dancing with the stars and I connected and now we're here.

02:28:35.420 It was just a very interesting experience, like very organic how it happened.

02:28:41.240 And so, I mean, I wouldn't have taken this if I couldn't bring my kids, but it meant,

02:28:44.740 you know, they were set to go to school.

02:28:46.040 We had all their backpacks.

02:28:47.540 We were, had their extracurricular activities and it was transferred down here.

02:28:51.020 And they're so happy because it's an adventure.

02:28:53.580 You know, I was worried that it was going to be not fair to them, but actually it's been

02:28:57.780 one of the best things that's ever happened to them.

02:29:00.820 You are a white girl from Rhode Island.

02:29:04.420 She's wearing a lot of body makeup.

02:29:06.540 Yes.

02:29:07.220 She either went to the tanning bed or, you know, we were buffed up by some makeup artists. 0.99

02:29:12.900 She's camouflaging who she is in many ways.

02:29:15.180 In many ways.

02:29:16.160 And, you know, so my favorite thing was watching the expression on her partner's face.

02:29:19.600 She's like, make it stop. 0.97

02:29:20.920 Oh my God, I'm dying.

02:29:22.120 She's doing the accent. 0.97

02:29:23.440 Oh my God, I'm dying.

02:29:24.160 I don't want to be standing here for this.

02:29:26.280 Backpacks.

02:29:27.720 Get me out of here.

02:29:28.800 She can't stop herself.

02:29:30.060 She can't.

02:29:30.760 It's, it's like a pathological, like it's, the DSM needs like a new categorization.

02:29:37.160 I don't know if it's like, name it Hilaria Baldwin.

02:29:41.080 Yeah, Hilaria. 0.88

02:29:42.440 Silent H.

02:29:43.200 She's Hillary from Rhode Island. 0.87

02:29:46.600 She went to Boston University.

02:29:48.980 She has a trust fund.

02:29:50.340 She went to a fancy Tony private school out there.

02:29:52.820 Like this person is not Spanish.

02:29:56.320 I just, why does, why does everybody play along though?

02:29:59.800 Why doesn't her interviewer for Dancing with the Stars say, why are you speaking in a Spanish

02:30:03.940 accent right now?

02:30:04.600 Are you crazy?

02:30:05.420 See, that person is like TV gold, keep going.

02:30:09.360 But I, I, I just want somebody anywhere to just stick it, just somebody from an access 0.92

02:30:13.460 or an entertainment tonight, just say, what?

02:30:15.720 I mean, I know she gave the explanation on the unwatchable reality show, which is she's

02:30:19.600 multi.

02:30:20.600 I don't know.

02:30:21.420 Yeah.

02:30:21.780 Whatever.

02:30:22.140 But the, the, the partner's like face just dying, just like, just like exit me now.

02:30:28.320 What would be great is if a white non-Spanish interviewer started to do it too. 0.97

02:30:33.280 Like, go on.

02:30:35.140 Or just start speaking.

02:30:36.540 Like, get me a real Spanish speaker.

02:30:38.100 Yeah.

02:30:38.420 Like, let's do this in your native, right?

02:30:39.960 She can speak Spanish.

02:30:41.080 Of course she's leaned in, she's method, but she's got this thing. 0.95

02:30:44.680 She does like, she, she, she's doing some weird podcast with her 11 year old daughter.

02:30:49.240 I think we have it.

02:30:50.700 Um, yeah.

02:30:51.680 Do we have it?

02:30:52.140 It's not 43.

02:30:53.560 She does this thing.

02:30:54.460 Let me see if we have it in this clip, but she does this thing. 1.00

02:30:56.260 She did it to Alec and I read in the longer clip here.

02:30:58.960 I don't know if this is in there, but she's like to Alec.

02:31:01.440 She was like, when I'm talking, you're not talking.

02:31:03.600 And to this daughter, same thing.

02:31:05.220 Like what I want to hear from you is anyway, here she is. 1.00

02:31:09.360 Oh, 42.

02:31:10.280 What I want to hear from you is your experience of this, your excitement, your fears.

02:31:15.340 What do you think about that?

02:31:16.840 What do you, what do you think I'm crazy?

02:31:19.960 Yes.

02:31:20.700 In like a good way or a bad way or both ways?

02:31:22.880 You're a crazy person.

02:31:24.580 Yeah.

02:31:24.800 And what's it like to have a crazy mommy? 1.00

02:31:27.000 It's fun.

02:31:29.180 You're not necessarily crazy.

02:31:32.180 It's you let me be crazy.

02:31:33.580 Like you let me do things and you have crazy ideas.

02:31:38.300 Because when it was up until this year, we didn't travel.

02:31:43.200 We were just, we would always stay at home.

02:31:45.860 We'd go to Vermont.

02:31:47.500 But do you know why?

02:31:49.460 Crystal Springs.

02:31:50.360 No, why?

02:31:50.800 I don't know why.

02:31:52.020 Because we were dealing with the trial.

02:31:55.580 We were dealing with your dad who was very sick.

02:32:00.800 The spring break before that, he almost died and was in the hospital.

02:32:06.740 We're allowed to talk about that.

02:32:07.940 Yes.

02:32:08.720 Yeah.

02:32:08.960 I've talked about it.

02:32:09.580 I wrote about it in my book.

02:32:10.380 Oh my God.

02:32:12.480 There's a lot happening there, Maureen.

02:32:14.640 Me, me, me, me.

02:32:16.240 What do you think of me?

02:32:17.660 Me, me.

02:32:19.180 Devastating news about your father.

02:32:21.100 And it was in my book.

02:32:22.220 It was in my book.

02:32:22.800 You didn't read my book?

02:32:24.100 You didn't read my book, kid?

02:32:26.880 Oh my God.

02:32:28.000 She's 11.

02:32:28.640 And she's already mimicking mommy's yoga poses in that chair. 0.99

02:32:32.240 Yes.

02:32:32.400 Very sad.

02:32:33.480 Why does this feel so exploitative?

02:32:35.500 It feels very Red Table Talk adjacent, you know, where Jada would have the kids come on and talk and Will and talk about how she was having a sexual relationship with their young son's friend in front of Will, who is cuckolded.

02:32:50.260 And like, this all feels so like, I think this is a form of child abuse.

02:32:55.700 I do.

02:32:56.340 I think it's very dark.

02:32:57.360 I think 11 is very young to be doing something like this.

02:33:01.000 Like, that's really young.

02:33:02.420 And like, you shouldn't be talking about family secrets and like how the father was devastated and almost died and was in the hospital.

02:33:09.180 Like, this should not be revealed to your child on camera so loosely.

02:33:14.200 Obviously, the mother's a narcissist. 1.00

02:33:15.780 That was a lot, too.

02:33:16.880 Like, none of that seems healthy to me, by the way.

02:33:19.520 You'll be shocked to learn that their YouTube channel has 28 subscribers.

02:33:24.040 Episode one has 91 views.

02:33:26.320 So that's, it's not going that well.

02:33:28.880 Here's, okay, Lauren Labruno, my producer, really wants to play one other one. 0.99

02:33:32.400 Go ahead, Lauren.

02:33:32.840 Play it.

02:33:34.820 Yes, at least I tried.

02:33:35.800 No, but the one thing is, I'm being so honest.

02:33:38.540 You are one of the best people on Dancing with the Stars who is not a pro.

02:33:42.860 Gleb is one of the best pros.

02:33:44.440 The only problem is popularity.

02:33:46.060 You have not that many, like, you're, you're known, but you're not like super, super well-known than all these people.

02:33:53.480 True.

02:33:53.780 But you're more skilled than them.

02:33:57.340 Notwithstanding your best efforts.

02:34:00.960 She put the shiv in. 0.92

02:34:02.320 Like, you learn, product of a difficult mother.

02:34:04.940 Right.

02:34:05.180 I know how to do this.

02:34:06.080 Yes, she put the, like, you know, your problem is, I mean, you're better than they are, but nobody really likes you.

02:34:11.600 That's what she was saying.

02:34:12.700 People don't like you.

02:34:15.260 Work on that.

02:34:16.600 Try.

02:34:17.100 Try your best.

02:34:17.680 That's going to get them all the way up to 100 viewers.

02:34:19.600 100%.

02:34:20.160 I think they really, they've changed things.

02:34:21.760 Before we leave the story of Hilaria, Hilaria, we've got to have the, the oldie but goodie.

02:34:27.580 Do we have the oldie?

02:34:28.320 Yeah, we do.

02:34:28.940 Stop 46, please.

02:34:31.800 We have very few ingredients.

02:34:33.220 We have tomatoes.

02:34:34.700 We have, um, how do you say it?

02:34:37.400 Cucumber.

02:34:37.900 Cucumbers.

02:34:38.440 How you say it in English?

02:34:39.540 How you say it in English?

02:34:40.620 She knows how you say it in English.

02:34:41.740 And speaking of Hollywood kids who clearly have not been well served by their parents,

02:34:50.380 Violet Affleck, the daughter of Ben Affleck and Jennifer Garner, by this point, you guys

02:34:59.520 have heard this story, showed up at the UN this week in a, an N95 mask, which she has never

02:35:06.700 stopped wearing since COVID and gave testimony on how we all need to be wearing these masks

02:35:13.960 everywhere.

02:35:15.540 Here she is, Sat 48. 0.86

02:35:18.820 But when it comes to the ongoing pandemic, our present is being stolen right in front of

02:35:24.000 our eyes.

02:35:24.680 For adults, the relentless beat of back to normal, ignoring, downplaying and concealing both the

02:35:29.980 prevalence of airborne transmission and the threat of long COVID manifested in a series

02:35:34.160 of choices.

02:35:34.840 Young people lacked both real choice in the matter and information about what was being 1.00

02:35:40.080 chosen for us.

02:35:41.640 It is neglect of the highest order to look children in the eyes and say, we knew how to protect

02:35:45.900 you and we didn't do it.

02:35:47.880 We have access to a technology to prevent airborne disease, something that millions of our ancestors

02:35:52.640 and millions of people around the world today would kill for.

02:35:56.200 And we refuse to use it.

02:35:58.360 And I shudder to think of where we will be in another five years of unmitigated infection

02:36:02.540 and reinfection.

02:36:04.840 That's abuse.

02:36:09.020 This poor girl is not well, but not in the way she thinks.

02:36:12.160 That's exactly right.

02:36:12.980 You know what I mean?

02:36:15.300 That's a form of child abuse to let your child grow up and be that paranoid about disease

02:36:20.000 that she thinks the whole world needs a mandatory mask mandate.

02:36:22.920 And then to allow a platform based on your parents' fame so that you find yourself at 19 and a college

02:36:31.240 freshman at the U.N.

02:36:32.640 Why is Violet Affleck at the United Nations where the biggest problems are Israel, Palestine, Russia, Ukraine, and she's at the United Nations, by the way, making a nonsensical argument saying that this technology, which is a physical barrier, it's not Elon Musk's SpaceX.

02:36:52.940 Okay, sister, that our ancestors would have killed for.

02:36:56.360 I mean, we got here through immunology and virology.

02:36:59.360 Like that's the propagation of the human species.

02:37:01.920 Good point.

02:37:02.320 Thirdly, this is the legacy of Greta Thunberg.

02:37:05.940 Totally getting Greta Thunberg vibes. 1.00

02:37:09.980 How dare you?

02:37:11.220 How dare you?

02:37:12.640 You've stolen my childhood.

02:37:16.380 It's ridiculous.

02:37:18.200 I can't believe somebody didn't show her Greta Thunberg beforehand and said, do the opposite of that.

02:37:22.720 So I just read that the latest attempt at thwarting Greta's like third flotilla attempt was to play ABBA as like a sort of like, this is the biggest cultural thing you got, like is ABBA.

02:37:35.880 But that's, ABBA's great.

02:37:37.020 I love ABBA.

02:37:38.040 No, no, no.

02:37:38.680 Dancing queen.

02:37:39.860 ABBA's amazing.

02:37:40.780 But yeah, no, this is wild to me.

02:37:44.320 And I, you know, the other, my favorite, my other favorite story was, you know, she'll be photographed in LA rolling around in like $2,000 Chloe handbags with her N95 on.

02:37:54.800 And she reportedly, I mean, the Daily Mail had this story that during the LA wildfires, Jennifer Garner, remember Ben scooped them up.

02:38:03.600 He would J-Lo, he was in the, and they went to the Beverly Hills Hotel reportedly and Violet threw a fit because she was like, this is some 1% shit. 0.94

02:38:12.380 Like we shouldn't be staying here.

02:38:13.660 Oh my God.

02:38:14.460 It's like, this is, this is not.

02:38:15.640 Where would you like to be?

02:38:16.600 Holiday Inn?

02:38:17.700 What?

02:38:17.920 Motel 6.

02:38:18.360 Motel 6.

02:38:19.360 Yeah.

02:38:19.760 Then you'll be happy.

02:38:20.780 Yeah.

02:38:21.080 So this is a parenting failure.

02:38:22.480 I entirely blame the parents.

02:38:24.880 And don't they have another kid who's trans?

02:38:27.360 Allegedly, yeah.

02:38:27.960 They have another kid who they say is trans.

02:38:30.080 And then he was with J-Lo and she has a kid who's Mark Anthony's who has declared themselves non-binary.

02:38:38.800 So great job.

02:38:40.060 Great job.

02:38:40.580 Now, you've got three kids who seem pretty addled with mental challenges and I'm sorry,

02:38:47.220 but Violet Affleck put herself out there. 0.73

02:38:49.940 So she is fair game.

02:38:51.440 Yes.

02:38:52.100 This is very wrong.

02:38:53.500 This girl is as, as addled as somebody who's an active anorexic or in a deep depression or has,

02:39:01.500 you know, crippling anxiety, which is clearly what we're looking at there.

02:39:04.980 I think so.

02:39:05.620 The proper response from the parent is to say, take that off.

02:39:08.980 You're fine.

02:39:09.760 I mean, and to not even get her to the point where when we're putting on the masks, she's that terrified to begin with.

02:39:16.060 Like clearly this girl needs an unorthodox, unhealthy way of showing the world she matters.

02:39:24.440 Yes.

02:39:24.920 Of getting attention, you know, born to two parents who clearly love attention on themselves.

02:39:30.680 That's obvious.

02:39:31.700 Who couldn't keep their marriage together.

02:39:33.460 Okay, fine.

02:39:34.160 It happens.

02:39:34.960 But all the more reason your attention should be flowing into your child because divorce can create issues. 1.00

02:39:41.420 Clearly you didn't do that.

02:39:42.340 But, and now she's created this new unhealthy way for herself, in my opinion, to make herself feel important and relevant.

02:39:51.760 And like, she's the star instead of all these fucked up parents around her.

02:39:57.500 You know, it's interesting with the Greta comparison, you know, her parents are failed performers. 0.94

02:40:01.360 Like her parents are failed actors.

02:40:02.860 Like I think her mother's a failed rock star and her father's a failed actor or vice versa.

02:40:06.040 And they sort of, this was their way of like vicariously getting that, like that kind of level of fame.

02:40:11.340 And with Violet Affleck, you know, what's fascinating to me is, and I think I would be alarmed as if I were her parent, that like the way this is manifesting is through masking oneself.

02:40:21.160 Which if you want to unlayer the metaphors of that, you know, it's deep.

02:40:26.980 And she's coming at the world from a very fearful place.

02:40:30.340 Like you should be spreading your wings at college, especially like you're a kid who can fly home private.

02:40:36.500 You can go on these lavish vacations.

02:40:37.960 You can, you know, you have access to the best and it's, you should be having the time of your life.

02:40:42.400 And this girl is hunkering down in her dorm room, afraid to go to like a party.

02:40:47.980 That's like tragic.

02:40:49.140 They turned her into a Taylor Lorenz who's like, put on your masks. 0.99

02:40:54.100 It's, this is inhumane what you're all doing to me, walking around out there, breathing freely.

02:40:58.880 Like, how is she going to function in the world? 0.83

02:41:00.940 How is she ever going to get a job in a workplace? 0.68

02:41:03.020 I realize she never has to work if she doesn't want to, but like, who doesn't want their child to get a job and work and be a contributing member of society?

02:41:09.120 She's already crossed over to the far left lecturing us phase of progressivism.

02:41:14.360 Yeah, it's like, it's, it's almost like it's, this is the kind of thing where you feel like you just take the child and at 19, I mean, she's, you know, she's on the cusp of adulthood, but you get her to the best of the best in psychiatry and psychology.

02:41:26.920 You get her to the best and you work on what to me seems like, you know, and I say that, you know, I've talked to you about like being a kid who had real OCD.

02:41:34.300 Like this feels like a kind of obsessive, compulsive manifestation of like what really is like deep anxiety and maybe some anger because a lot of depression is actually self-directed anger because it's too scary to unleash it.

02:41:49.680 Like at the places and people you really have it for, you know?

02:41:53.460 Mm-hmm. I just think if this were my child, this wouldn't be my child. I would not raise my child to be like this, but if this were for some reason, I, I would not be going to the therapist.

02:42:05.100 I would be taking off my work for a year and she and I would be traveling. We'd be going coast to coast in America in our car. We'd be going over to Europe, maybe go back to Provence. That was pretty damn good.

02:42:17.360 Um, we'd be together all the time. We'd drive each other crazy. I'm sure if that were my kid for the beginning and then there'd come a period where we'd settle down into a rhythm and we'd get closer and closer and closer.

02:42:28.800 And I'd be giving her all the attention and love that she needed that I clearly failed to give her before this point.

02:42:35.560 And we would get super tight and she would be reminded of what matters and who she is and that she doesn't need to do this crap in order to feel of value.

02:42:43.000 But I will say, I think that Dr. Leonard Sachs, who comes on the show sometimes and talks about parenting advice, you do get to a point beyond which you can't fix what you did, you know?

02:42:54.580 And 19 is probably pretty close to that point. Like this needed to be addressed a lot earlier. And she's, it's been five years since COVID. She has been in a mask for five years.

02:43:07.320 It's, you know, it's, it makes you wonder too about like her peer group and who her friends are. Because, you know, of course, even before that age, they have a lot more influence than your parents as you're breaking away and as you're healthy.

02:43:20.980 And you would think that her peer group would encourage her. Like, Violet, let's go out one night on the quad. It's like, it's fresh air. Let's go to a party.

02:43:31.660 Don't you think it's probably like, Violet's got her special thing. You know, Violet wants to talk to the class about her special thing, her weird mask obsession. I'll bet you, in Hollywood, they're all leaning into this. And by the way, there's no way every single one of her friends is not masked.

02:43:47.460 You think? Yes. She's pissed off you and I aren't masked. Can you imagine her hanging out with people who are free faced?

02:43:54.400 But she does it. She walks with her mother. She walks with her father. Oh, this is the best part. The Daily Mail pointed this out. So smart. She talked about like smoking being a difficult thing. Like Ben is a chain smoker. We see the pictures of him all the time. Like, it can't be both, right? Your parents can't be out in the world bringing in whatever they're bringing in from the community. Your father can't be a chain smoker.

02:44:15.540 And you are in like, and like, I find the N95 mask, the metaphor of all metaphors for like growing up in that house. Like I am, I am, I am uncontaminating myself from the pollutants in the Garner Affleck household.

02:44:33.260 Yes. It is just a reminder. I would say this all the time, but you look from the outside at these like very wealthy, very famous families. And there tends to be a, you know, knee jerk of like, oh, they have it all. They've got these multimillion dollar mansions in the Hollywood Hills, these amazing swimming pools and all this staff, the fancy airplane and cars. No, no, I'm sorry.

02:44:53.220 But like, and I hope that Violet Affleck gets past this. I really hope the trans kid and the non-binary kid, which is not a thing, get pulled out of that dangerous, dangerous delusion. 1.00

02:45:07.000 But I don't have a ton of like optimism about it because it would require stronger parents than they apparently have.

02:45:14.320 I hope, you know, sometimes it's like a kid can get there on their own. And if this is, let's just say, this is some sort of her version of rebellion. It's not sex. It's not drugs. It's not rock and roll. It's an N95.

02:45:28.260 Oh God.

02:45:28.580 Like, let's hope that like she can get herself to the other side of this. And this, this is just a, you know, it's a very difficult time. 19 really. It's really hard. I had a really hard time. I had an eating disorder at 19. It was not easy, but you know, I got myself out of it. It wasn't my parents who got me out of it. I got myself out of it. You know, with the help.

02:45:49.100 Did something happen?

02:45:49.680 Yeah. Well, I actually had a mentor who was also a very close friend of mine and she worked, we worked together and she took me out. She'll know who she is if she's listening. She took me out to lunch one day and she said, we are sitting here until you eat.

02:46:04.440 Wow.

02:46:05.040 What's on your plate and we're not leaving until you do. And I actually had like, I, I had to confess and break down and have this like sort of come to Jesus that I hadn't really had with myself. And I, I was, I was so weak.

02:46:19.460 And depleted. And I said, I don't know if I physically can because my stomach has shrunk so much and my brain has rewired so much that it doesn't want food and I'm going to get sick. And she said, just do what you can do it. You know, it was like one of the most loving things anybody has ever done for me. And she pulled me back by the scruff of my neck because I was this close to needing professional help, like that close.

02:46:42.840 So, you know, sometimes it's the kid does find their way or they find the people they need to like influence them in the right way. So maybe she has that down the line for her. We have to end it on a positive note. All right. We're hoping that a, she gets out of like that Hollywood circle and finds people who can be a good, genuinely good influence on her.

02:47:03.680 Um, the best thing that happened to me this week was my daughter's playing soccer in her high school and it's nothing extraordinary, but it's the games come right after the show goes off the air. So I, I have time, you know, if Abby knows that we have a home game, she blocks my afternoon and I go.

02:47:22.820 And I'm telling you, Maureen, it is so wonderful over there. It's just a high school soccer game where this is not the Olympics or the world cup or what have you just, just yesterday we went, we were playing our rival. We got there. It was one, one. Cause we got there like 20 minutes late. And, uh, so it was tense. It was like tight. Finally, we went up one goal and it was two, one. And then all you can do is watch your watch. Like, please make time go faster. You know, you're praying and the other team's praying for exactly the opposite.

02:47:52.100 Right. We can still do it. We've been there too. And you know, you're watching your kid out there doing her thing. You're like, Oh, please God, you know, make it go well for her and make everybody have a good time. And all the parents who we don't know, you know, cause we're new, she's a freshman. So this is, these are a bunch of people who've been on this team for a while. Now, suddenly we're high-fiving people. We have no idea who they are, you know, but these are going to be our, our fellow parents on this team for a while. You, you come together. It was like the ending seconds when they had the ball down by our goal. And the other team was almost scoring.

02:48:22.100 Over and over and over. They had the ball right in front of our goal for too long. And the parents on our team started yelling, blow the whistle, you know, blow the whistle, like end the game. Like we were over. It seemed like we were way over. It was just such a dumb chant. It was like the ref is going to blow the whistle when the time is over, but you just, you feel so powerless. Like, yes, please blow the, blow the whistle.

02:48:39.280 And we did win. And it was disproportionately joyful to what was actually happening in front of us. But that is the stuff. Yes. That's it. That's it. That's what you need. You know, like you need moments with your friends or your family or like sitting here together talking and laughing. This is the good stuff that gets us through.

02:48:58.660 That's it. That's it. You can, again, you can, I think about this all the time. You can have the trappings, you can have the whatever. And it doesn't, it doesn't fill anything the way that like meaningful relationships with people you love and want the best for.

02:49:13.140 Yeah. And that's a rare thing too. You know, not everybody wants the best for everybody else. True. But when you find those people and they're like rare birds and I consider you one of them, you know, not to have an Oprah Gail thing, you know, but like, you know, we're at least Gilbert's over there and Oprah and Gail are like, you're my river person. But you know, you know what I'm saying? It's like, those are, those are like, you, those are like the, that's, that's like the stuff where it's like, you feel like there's a bit of like what Matthew McConaughey would probably say stardust at work.

02:49:43.140 You know, where it's like, yes, things line up and we need it. It's like, it's been such a hard two weeks. It's when those little moments come just sitting here with you laughing that the soccer game, we have to take them. We have to recognize like, it's not the extraordinary thing. Like you win an Oscar or whatever the equivalent is, you know, it's that it's this. So I'm so glad we gave it to the audience too, because I know they're at home feeling it too. They know you, they, they know me and I know they love when we get together because we're saying all the things they're

02:50:13.120 I think so too. And I think, um, I'm really, I'm just happy to see you in person. As you know, I've been thinking about you a lot these past two weeks and I'm just so happy to see you looking good and doing well. Thank you. I am doing well. Great to see you. All right. And thanks to all of you for sticking with us. This is a long one. You know, we knew we were going to have to do a good chunk on the indictment of Jim's, of James Comey around like there's no way we're shortening Maureen. So we did a long show today.

02:50:43.120 And, uh, we'll see y'all on Monday.

02:50:49.160 Thanks for listening to the Megan Kelly show. No BS, no agenda, and no fear.

The Megyn Kelly Show - September 26, 2025

Comey Indicted, Kamala Word Salad, and Hoda Kotb's Inane Book, with Maureen Callahan, Dave Aronberg, Mike Davis, and John Solomon ｜ Ep 1158

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